- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:24 AM 5/15/98 PDT, you wrote: >Uh-huh. It's time to move out of my apartment. Is the HP 3000 any >good (in terms of how interesting it is)? Is it any good? Wash your mouth out with soap! It is the best minicomputer out there on the market, now or ever before. Don't let all these east coast dec-heads fill your mind with nonsense... HP's will be out there chugging along happily, long after the last DEC is dead and buried. 8^) Lessee... Some links for the HP3000... <http://www.3k.com/> is where I'd go for shareware. <http://www.robelle.com/> makes the best editor out there. <http://www.adager.com/> -- Alfredo Rego used to have a Series 1 up and running. I'm sure there are more... Frank, you listening? uh-oh, better go hide behind a pile of GRiD's... 8^) P.S., my first computer (well, not *mine* exactly) was a PDP-11/70 running RSTS/E (iirc). Damn fine machine, too. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

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Intel 4004 architecture

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

When did Intel (if ever) discontinue the 4000 series??? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 1:43 AM Subject: RE: Intel 4004 architecture >what was the difference between the 4004 and the 4040? Presumably the ><4040 was faster / more flexible, but was it a completely different ><architecture? > >Faster, larger register set and stack, increased instruction set fully >compatable with 4004. > >Allison >

28 years, 3 months

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[Rare systems]

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 18 May 1998 11:58 Subject: Re: [Rare systems] >At 01:14 PM 17-05-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >>Who ported UNIX to the Lisa? It wasn't Apple, was it? BTW, anybody know >>which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine? > >Probably the port done at Woollongong University to the Interdata x/32 >where x is some number I can't remember.... > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm I dont think anybody ported unix to the Lisa...well it wasnt a commerical thing.... im not sure on this but if someone knows for sure ill like to hear from them check out my Lisa web page......

28 years, 3 months

2
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"Computer Hobbyist" newsletter

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hello all, "Computer Hobbyist" was a newsletter written in 1975-1976 by Hal Chamberlin and others. Each issue was about 10 pages of small print. It had articles like "Add a hardware stack to your 8008" which also appeared later in an early BYTE magazine. I still have issues 5 to 10, I guess the last one. Does anyone have access to issues 1 to 4 and would be willing to copy them for me? -Dave

28 years, 3 months

1
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Historic Microsoft anti-trust happenings

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

You're right. But I say we're going to see a leaner, greener Microsoft. No longer driven by it's NEED to have every piece of software for Windows only, it will have ports of Word, Interent Explorer and other software for UN*X. It's already started, with Internet Explorer for Solaris, and Netshow for Linux. Internet Explorer is an ingenious program, and is very highly customizable, which I like. Word is a pretty good word processor, when you get down to it. But first, MS must get over it's neglect of it's s greatest asset: It's customers. End-users, resellers, and other vendors. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 9:19 PM Subject: Historic Microsoft anti-trust happenings > >Hey, this whole deal with Microsoft and the government anti-trust lawsuit >is pretty historic. Unless Microsoft all of a sudden decides to come back >to the table (I think at this point the egos have bloated out so far that >they are irreversibly colliding with one another) then it will be very >interesting to see what comes of this. Ten years from now we'll be >looking back, much like we did when they killed Ma Bell, and for better or >worse, lamenting on the days when Microsoft was king. > >I think it went from interesting side note to full-blown event when >Microsoft said "screw it" and decided to go ahead and ship Win98. That >was a decidedly brash decision. It will be very fun to watch this unfold >over the next few weeks. > >Take notes, all you amateur computer historians. This is the kind of >stuff people always refer back to when discussing the politics of business >and the forces that change industry. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] >

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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MemoryWriter 620

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

Just purchased a Xerox MemoryWriter 620. Anybody know how to work this thing? I can get spaces, returns, and tabs to work, but when I try to type any characters it just makes a grinding noise and beeps (regardless of whether its set to printer or memory). Any ideas? Thanks, Tom Owad

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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TI 4060 ram

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Does anyone know anything about a TMS4060 RAM? Is it static or <dynamic? I < <>From the TI 'Memory and Microprocessors Databook' 1976 : < <TMS4060 4096 bit Dynamic Random Access Memory. < <It's 4096 * 1bit, DRAM, either 300ns (plain), 250ns (-1) or 200ns (-2) <access <time. < <That part sounds familiar, either TI or MOSTEK was the second source? <Wasn't it the DRAM used on the infamous MITS 4KB DRAM S-100 memory card? <The one that never worked because they used a one-shot for the RAS-CAS <timing. That was one collector item that should be put in a landfill. < Jack peacock It was used on the MITs 88-4mcd and S4k rams alone with I2107 or upd411. The part didn't need ras/, cas/ as it was not muxed address. Your confusing it with the 16pin muxed parts used in the TRS80. Need some 4060s? Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
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IBM Selectric used as printer on Apple ][+

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 03:03 PM 17-05-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: >> Really? I could've sworn that the operator's console on several >> IBM machines was a modified Selectric. > >2740 and 2741 for the S/360s (found in *IBMs 360 and Early 370 Systems*, a >must for every bookshelf, if you can find it). Ah, the good old 2741. We had one here at La Trobe which had an 8080 based interface so that it could talk (current loop?) to our DECsystem-10 at 134.7 baud. I understand the 134.7 baud rate is the fastest speed that you can drive the Selectric mechanism before it flies apart :-) Did my honors thesis on this back in 1977 using a typesetting program known as Cicero running on the -10 written at ARL (Aeronautical Research Labs, in Melbourne Australia). Used it again for version 1 of my M.Sc - it could do golf ball changes to allow the pages of mathematical formulae to be printed. From memory, a typical page took 10 minutes to print due to the time wasted in golf ball changes. I keep trying to remember this when I complain that the Xerox printer I now use prints about 10 double sided pages a minute... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Kaypro 2 Boot Disks, library format

by NLawson＠Scient.com

I recently obtained a Kaypro 2 from my great aunt, but it doesn't have any floppies for booting. It's also missing the cable to connect the keyboard to the main unit. 1. Can I just use a straight-through RJ11, 4 conductor wire for the keyboard? It looks like this is the case. (Same cable used for phones). 2. Does anyone have the images for the boot disk(s) or know where to get them? I can rawrite them to a SSDD disk once I have them. 3. A lot of the information on the OAK CP/M archive is in a .lbr or .tzt format. Is there an application for DOS or Unix to read these, and where would it be found? Thanks for any help. I plan to use the Kaypro as a terminal via the VT100 emulator. I'm reasonably familiar (albeit, quite rusty) with CP/M. -Nate nlawson(a)scient.com

28 years, 3 months

3
2
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TI 4060 ram

by peacock＠simconv.com

> Does anyone know anything about a TMS4060 RAM? Is it static or dynamic? I

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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MS '98 vs IBM '75

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Relevant to the current lawsuit: In "A Soul of a New Machine", the author mentions that IBM was pretty much constantly in court at the time of Data General's beginnings. Could someone please sum up what was happening at the time? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Thank you, I will try the drivers and tell you what happens. What did the hitachi drives look like? Maybe it's actually the same or almost the same thing >as the Amdek Laserdrive-1) > >The interface was some proprietary subset of SCSI (parallel type). I have >some ancient device drivers if you want to screw around with them. This is >all 286/DOS3.3-era stuff. > >Kai > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Sounds like an OEM version of the Hitachi 1502/1503/2500 series (also sold as the Amdek Laserdrive-1) The interface was some proprietary subset of SCSI (parallel type). I have some ancient device drivers if you want to screw around with them. This is all 286/DOS3.3-era stuff. Kai

28 years, 3 months

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

You're right. 6-9 DO go to the DC37. The cable is pretty much straight through. Any other hints you need? > >> OK, I finally brought the thing home. >> The 37 pin connector is wired as follows: >> Pins 1-17 are the only ones attached to something >> It's fairly difficuly to trace, the traces keep switching >> sides of the board and stuff... >> 1-4 are wired to 2-5 of 74LS245, then go on to 2-5 of 74LS541 > >Sounds like half of an 8-bit data bus. Where do 6-9 of the '245 go to? >(the DC37 connector, I'll bet). > >How is the cable wired? In other words, where do these data pins end up >on the drive end? > >> Some others as well, I'll give you the exact pins if you want. >> The 8255-AC5 is mostly attached to the above-listed chips. >> >> The drive box is a DATEXT Model DTX-10, released April 1986. >> Inside, it has the drive itself, and two 9" X 9" boards. The bottom >> one seems to be simply hardware stuff - nothing but resistors, >> amplifiers, etc. The top one is the one with the centronics >> connector. It has 12 TC40H***P chips. Also, some 74LS***P chips. > >40Hxxxx are high speed 4000-series CMOS, I think, normally from Toshiba. > >> Also, there are two huge chips, 60-pin or something. These are >> HD61Z002 and HD63701XOP. All chips are Hitachi-labelled. There is also > >I think the 63701 is a microcontroller of some kind. No idea on the other >one, alas. > >> a 34.5774 MHz crystal. Lastly, an EPROM w/the window covered over. >> I hope it's OK that I lifted the tape. It's MBM2732A-30. The only > >That shouldn't have done it any harm, but keep sunlight off the chip (at >least unitl you've backed it up). > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
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TI 4060 RAM

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years, 3 months

1
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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

OK, I finally brought the thing home. The 37 pin connector is wired as follows: Pins 1-17 are the only ones attached to something It's fairly difficuly to trace, the traces keep switching sides of the board and stuff... 1-4 are wired to 2-5 of 74LS245, then go on to 2-5 of 74LS541 Some others as well, I'll give you the exact pins if you want. The 8255-AC5 is mostly attached to the above-listed chips. The drive box is a DATEXT Model DTX-10, released April 1986. Inside, it has the drive itself, and two 9" X 9" boards. The bottom one seems to be simply hardware stuff - nothing but resistors, amplifiers, etc. The top one is the one with the centronics connector. It has 12 TC40H***P chips. Also, some 74LS***P chips. Also, there are two huge chips, 60-pin or something. These are HD61Z002 and HD63701XOP. All chips are Hitachi-labelled. There is also a 34.5774 MHz crystal. Lastly, an EPROM w/the window covered over. I hope it's OK that I lifted the tape. It's MBM2732A-30. The only big chip on the bottom board is an HA12049A. I hope this gives you some idea. I have a VOM and a poorly working 'scope if you need any of that to figure this out > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Success in Des Moines

by archive＠navix.net

I just wanted to send the list a note, letting everyone know my appreciation to Anthony Clifton (Wirehead) for a great transaction this last weekend. He welcomed me into his home after 11:00pm while I was passing through en route to Chicago (and Milwaukee and Minneapolis!), for a great deal. I picked up TRS-80, Commodore, etc., hardware and software, many printers, and other goodies he threw in for my efforts--- plus a great price. If you have the chance to deal with Mr. Clifton, take it! CORD G. COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years, 3 months

1
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Spacewar

by jon＠techniche.com

OK, that's a new one on me... What's a Kenback. (I hope it's not similar to a henweigh!) Jon >Does anyone here know if Spacewar was ever ported to the Kenback, Mark-8 or Altair 8800? Any information on early games for these machines (even ports of basic games like Advent) would be very enlightening... > >Many thanks, > >van >........................................................................ > > @ > / > / Shift Lever > (D)/ >\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === >BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! >- ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 >Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection >mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] > ] ]] >71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... >van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com >production manager >wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states >........................................................................ >for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page(a)wired.com >van(a)wired.com van(a)futuraworld.com pingpong(a)spy.net vanburnham(a)aol.com > >

28 years, 3 months

5
4
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MIT flea

by scottk5＠ibm.net

-----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin [SMTP:maxeskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 1998 6:26 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: MIT flea I only managed to go there for 50min. and only found out about a west end when I left. It was cheaper than last time though. I bought nothing. THe things I saw that were of interest, however: A Xerox machine that looked like a PC clone, but the monitor plugged into the system unit with a wide ribbon-like cable, very crude- looking. What was this? Sounds like an 820 or a 16/8; both of them have large flat ribbon cables that connect to the drive housing. The system unit is actually the monitor assembly, that's where the motherboard and memory is. The drives (rigid, floppy, or both) are housed in a separate unit with it's own power supply. If you think that vonnection looks crude, you ought to see how the centronic printer connector is hooked up....with the same flat ribbon cable and the user had to go inside the monitor housing to install it. Very crude indeed...not at all Plug and Play!!! Just as a matter of curiousity, how much were they asking for it? Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net

28 years, 3 months

3
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PDP Emulator running BSD?

by sethm＠loomcom.com

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28 years, 3 months

2
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North Star Horizon [Rare systems]

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 17 May 1998 23:29 Subject: Re: North Star Horizon [Rare systems] >> > > I'll have to finish that database. Oh yeah, just remembered the Compal-80 >> > > (mid 70s S-100 box, very small, I'm sure some of the old hackers like >> > > Allison have heard of it though). >> > >> > Sure! COMputer Power And Light. >> >> That's exactly right. An obscure (by today's standards for sure, but >> don't know about back then...the references in the trade literature of the >> era are scarce) company that made S-100 boxes in the '75-'77(?) timeframe. > >That's the wonderful thing about S-100 stuff; there were literally >hundreds of small companies etching PC boards in the basement and >selling them bare or with parts as kits. With this *huge* variety of >boards available, what amazes me is that all the "serious collectors" >and "serious museums" (where "serious"="have lots of money to spend") >insist on pure Altair boardsets or pure IMSAI boardsets when I sell them >restored machines. > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm this is getting abit of track here but nobody seems to mind: well im in australia and ive got some mechines that i bet you guys have never heard of: LabTam 3000 (from around 1980, Z80, 8086, huge thing with 12" greeney 8", 5 1/4" hard drive 5MB i think) Dick Smith System 80 (TRS-80 model 1 clone) UNIVAC (CPM box, looks like a terminal) OSI C4P (looks like a SOL termianl computer, dont know anything else about it? anybody else know anything about it??)

28 years, 3 months

3
2
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Free DEC Tape Drive in SF Bay Area

by mor＠crl.com

This is a TA79 HSC 9-track in a large wheeled rack. I am planning to gut it and mount other stuff in the rack. But it's very clean, and the guy I got it from swears it works fine. So, before I start yanking everything out of it, I'll give anyone who wants to hook it up to their VAX, a chance to come pick it up instead. Or if you think you can use any of the removed pieces, let me know. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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NS* dos (horizon)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Anyone know or has hacked NS* dosV5.2 single density for more than 35 tracks? I'm considering using it with 80 track single sided drives if I can hack all the locations that tell the dos max disk size. The idea of 200k on current media with the older single density controller is appealing. The alternate is to get the 2D controllers I have going (800k per drive is better!). It would allow me to free up many of the SD/SS disks I have rather than a search (or make) for new 10sector media. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Clock speed of the 4004?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 18, 0:16, Tony Duell wrote: > I'd now like to ask a question in return. Can anyone provide me with the > pinouts of the 8291/8292/8293 GPIB chips? Just a list of the 40 (or > whatever) pins and their names. I don't seem to have them in any of my > databooks, and I'm trying to sort out a unit which uses them

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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MIT flea

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

all Plug and Play!!! Just as a = >matter of curiousity, how much were they asking for it? It was sitting next to a sign that said "Free ! take this junk away!" >Kirk Scott >scottk5(a)ibm.net > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
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MIT flea

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Which means? >It is a CSU/DSU of some sort. I see the things quite a bit, still in >service - there are still lots of 56K lines still in use, but one by one >they are being decommissioned. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
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IBM Selectric used as printer on Apple ][+

by dastar＠wco.com

I saw a very cool thing today. I stopped off at a garage sale and found some old computer books (a couple on UCSD Pascal, the p-system, a FORTH book). The old lady tending the cash box said her husband had a big old Apple that they wanted to get rid of. Thinking it just might be a Lisa I followed up on this lead and went and got the old man. He took me to his other house where he had it stored. It turned out it was an Apple ][+, but it did have something cool about it. The old man told me that the ][+ was his son's and he used it when he was at Stanford. Around the time a local bank was selling off a bunch of IBM Selectric typewriters that were being used as computer printers. They had an external box which provided the control mechanism for the computer. The son had a friend who was an electronics wiz and so he built an interface card for the Apple to drive the control box, thereby allowing the Apple to use the Selectric as a printer. Pretty cool. I dug through his manuals and found the schemtic for the adaptor card. I passed on it because I already had enough stuff for the day and the beast isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'll probably go back for it someday (just the control box, the Selectric and the interface card). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

8
15
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reverse-engineering power

by yowza＠yowza.com

On Sat, 16 May 1998 jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca wrote: > Did it have the battery at all? No battery. > first: hook up the voltmeter to the 74xxxx chip for 5v and ground. I'm reading around 3.2V, which would make sense for a laptop. > second: hook up that power jack with right size coaxial plug and to > veriable regulated power supply at least 600mA limited My variable regulated supply is in my other suit (I really do have one, just not here), so I used a bunch of different wall warts instead (center- negative isn't nearly as popular as center-postive, it seems). > third: start at 6V and chank up in 1V steps until it starts to work > properly especially for the display's crisp startup lamps. Well, the good news is that there's no smoke. But I'm not getting any lights either. I'll try to find a real power supply tomorrow and try again. Thanks for the help. My diagnostic skills are now floating above zero thanks to you guys. -- Doug

28 years, 3 months

4
9
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[Rare systems]

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 02:44 PM 17-05-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >On Sun, 17 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > >> Bzzt. Unix was created in 1974 at Bell Labs on a PDP-7. > >Proof by assertion *and* buzzer is my favorite kind of proof. At least >the guy that wrote the UNIX FAQ disagrees with you, but I'm sure your >buzzer is bigger than his :-) > > http://www.ee.byu.edu/unix-faq/subsection3_8_2.html Well I don't care how nicely formatted the page is, it's wrong. Unix was definitely originally written in assembler for the PDP-7. I'm sure I've got the reference at home. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 3 months

7
6
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Intel 4004 architecture

by allisonp＠world.std.com

what was the difference between the 4004 and the 4040? Presumably the <4040 was faster / more flexible, but was it a completely different <architecture? Faster, larger register set and stack, increased instruction set fully compatable with 4004. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
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Intel 4004 architecture

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

hi all, what was the difference between the 4004 and the 4040? Presumably the 4040 was faster / more flexible, but was it a completely different architecture? I remember seeing a fairly large box a few years back at my old college in the electronics department labelled either "4004 CPUs" or "4004 CPUs" - I really can't remember which but maybe there are still a few 4004's out there!! cheers Jules > >

28 years, 3 months

1
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Clock speed of the 4004?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<So Intel's web site labels it as 108Khz, just as the 8008. See, the 800 <(from what I gather) was really a modified (although greatly modified) 40 <designed to accept data/characters, not numerical data. That's like saying a Lotus Elan is a Model A with a smoother ride and faster. First the 8008 clock is 500khz for the slow 20us part the faster 12.5us part was 800khz. Source is my 25 year old copy of the 8008 8 bit parallel central procrossor unit users manual and my hand written notes from then. I also have my listing and the printset for that project still. Also if anything modified was not even a close term as the number and organization of registers were considerably different from the 4004 though in some respects the overall organization was similar. At the time IC designs like that were literally drawn on the wall and photographed down to die size. It did however embody a 8bit data path rather than 4. The bigger difference was the instruction set was larger and more general than the 4004. The 4004 could process characters, it was awkard due to the narrow data path and limited instruction set. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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IBM Selectric used as printer on Apple ][+

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 17 May 1998 15:13 Subject: IBM Selectric used as printer on Apple ][+ > >I saw a very cool thing today. I stopped off at a garage sale and found >some old computer books (a couple on UCSD Pascal, the p-system, a FORTH >book). The old lady tending the cash box said her husband had a big old >Apple that they wanted to get rid of. Thinking it just might be a Lisa I >followed up on this lead and went and got the old man. He took me to his >other house where he had it stored. It turned out it was an Apple ][+, >but it did have something cool about it. The old man told me that the ][+ >was his son's and he used it when he was at Stanford. Around the time a >local bank was selling off a bunch of IBM Selectric typewriters that were >being used as computer printers. They had an external box which provided >the control mechanism for the computer. The son had a friend who was an >electronics wiz and so he built an interface card for the Apple to drive >the control box, thereby allowing the Apple to use the Selectric as a >printer. Pretty cool. I dug through his manuals and found the schemtic >for the adaptor card. I passed on it because I already had enough stuff >for the day and the beast isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'll >probably go back for it someday (just the control box, the Selectric and >the interface card). > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yes in the early 1980s this modifacation was quite popular because the price of printers was ofthen cost more than the computer itself. these was also one where it fit over the keys of the typewritier and had a interface card and it pushed the keys when somthing was menat to be printed..... cool eh?

28 years, 3 months

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Looking for IBM 3330-011

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

At 10:23 PM 5/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >> I have a guy who's looking for a 3330-011 so he can dump a diskpack. Anyone >> have a spare they want to get rid of, or do you have one running so he can >> get the data off? > >Hmmm...I think he is in for a bit of a disappointment, as those drives >date back to 1970 or so. I really doubt there are any left doing work, or >even having the potential to do work. Knowing who this fellow is, this is probably a Y2K project, believe it or not. I guess the company's drive finally gave up the ghost and they're in a panic, or something like that. > >I do remember seeing a 400 meg 3330 in a junk yard two years ago. It was >pretty well trashed, and the ton plus beast would not fit in my Escort. Yeah, they just don't build cars the way they used to, do they. <g> > >Trivia: the 3330 "Merlin" was the first production drive to have servo >tracks. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > -- David Wollmann dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com

28 years, 3 months

2
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[Rare systems]

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Bill Pechter <pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com> wrote: > Actually there was the 8/32 port done and a 7/32 port done. The 8/32 > was (I think, the AT&T port) the 7/32 was done by Wollongong and later > migrated into Perkin-Elmer's Edition VII. Another part of that intro I never wrote: I work for The Wollongong Group, or what's left of it -- it was bought by Attachmate a couple of years ago, and the office at 1129 San Antonio Road is a lot smaller than it used to be. I started working there in 1989. The "Perkin-Ernie" was gone by that time. None of the old-timers still remaining ever called it an Interdata in front of me, always "the Perkin-Elmer" or "Perkin-Ernie". So I don't know a lot about it, just have the impression that it was a lot like V7 and worked pretty well 'til near the end. As I understand the early years of TWG, they got the rights to commercially develop the Unix port done at the University of Wollongong and turned it into the Edition VII product, and I think TWG sold it under the Edition VII name. Anyone care to clue me in on what I missed? -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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Clock speed of the 4004?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

So Intel's web site labels it as 108Khz, just as the 8008. See, the 8008 (from what I gather) was really a modified (although greatly modified) 4004 designed to accept data/characters, not numerical data. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 3:35 AM Subject: Re: Clock speed of the 4004? >> >> >> Anyone know what the clock speed of the 4004 is? Courson's web page >> mentions it not. > >I knew I'd kept that 1977 Intel databook for a good reason :-)... > >OK... define clock speed :-) >The instruction cycle is claimed to be 10.8 us. That consists of 8 clock >cycles, each of 1.35us minimum, 2us maximum. But conventionally the clock >was sourced from a 4201A clock generator that divided an external xtal by >either 7 or 8. Common crystals were either 4MHz divided by 8 (giving the >2us cycle time, 16us instruction) or 5.185MHz divided by 7 (giving 1.35us >clock cycle, 10.8us instruction). > >For real Intel trivia collectors, Intel even listed a 5.185 MHz crystal >under the part number 4801 for this chipset. > >Incidentally, this data book lists the following parts in the MCS-40 >family : > >4040 4-bit microprocessor >4004 4-bit microprocessor >4003 10-bit shift register >4265 Programmable general-purpose I/O >4269 Programmable keyboard/display interface >4201A Clock generator >40008/4009 Standard memory interface component pair >4289 Standard memory interface >4002 320 bit RAM, 4 I/O lines >4001 256*8 ROM, 4 I/O lines >4308 1024*8 ROM, 16 I/O lines >4316 2048*8 ROM >4702A 256*8 EPROM >4801 Clock crystal > >I'd now like to ask a question in return. Can anyone provide me with the >pinouts of the 8291/8292/8293 GPIB chips? Just a list of the 40 (or >whatever) pins and their names. I don't seem to have them in any of my >databooks, and I'm trying to sort out a unit which uses them > >> >> >> Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > >-tony >

28 years, 3 months

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[Rare systems]

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 03:53 PM 17-05-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: >> Here's a quick unix timeline: > >Does anyone know of the oldest surviving version of Unix that is still >running? Sure, there may be tapes for the PDP-7 version floating aroung >somewhere, but I do not think there are any working PDP-7s around! I'm not sure of the current status but the PDP-7 in the Digital Australia museum was being worked on to see if it could be made to fly again. Any Aussies with more recent information? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 3 months

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[Rare systems]

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>Proof by assertion *and* buzzer is my favorite kind of proof. At least <>the guy that wrote the UNIX FAQ disagrees with you, but I'm sure your <>buzzer is bigger than his :-) <> <> http://www.ee.byu.edu/unix-faq/subsection3_8_2.html < <Well I don't care how nicely formatted the page is, it's wrong. Unix was <definitely originally written in assembler for the PDP-7. I'm sure I've g <the reference at home. The PDP-7 was the starting point. The OS was the base unix written in PDP-7 asm, all versions later would originate from the first C version on PDP-11. The C version is from my understanding the first unix and C are synonomus with PDP-11 as before that was B, BCPL and the rudiments of unix OS on the PDP-7. It would take the PDP-11 arachecture to pull that all together. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Looking for IBM 3330-011

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

I have a guy who's looking for a 3330-011 so he can dump a diskpack. Anyone have a spare they want to get rid of, or do you have one running so he can get the data off? Thanks -- David Wollmann dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com

28 years, 3 months

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[Rare systems]

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 01:14 PM 17-05-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >Who ported UNIX to the Lisa? It wasn't Apple, was it? BTW, anybody know >which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine? Probably the port done at Woollongong University to the Interdata x/32 where x is some number I can't remember.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 3 months

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looking for...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I'm looking for printset (or copy)for DECMATEIII so I can do my own periherals. I have most of the stuff from the net in the way of specs and docs, what I need is a schematic. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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PDP Emulator running BSD?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 17, 13:09, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I have a silly question -- has anyone gotten a PDP-11 emulator (Bob > Supnik's emulator, in my case) to run the distribution of 2.9BSD UNIX > that can be had from sunsite.unc.edu? > > Personally, I haven't successfully gotten either to boot. I made a > bootable tape by dd'ing together the tape images as per the instructions, > but it doesn't boot. Neither does the RL02 image. They both hang > somewhere during the booting process and get stuck in an infinite (or > nearly infinite, at least) loop. Do they really hang, or just sit waiting? I've never used 2.9, but 2.11 normally waits for you to type CTRL-D at a critical point. 7th Edition just prints an "@" prompt from a hardware boot, and waits for you to type "boot" (which gives you a "Boot:" prompt, to which you'd normally respond "rl(0,0)unix"). Does 2.9BSD really fit on an RL02? If they really do hang, it's possible you've run foul of a bug in the emulator - older versions have a bug in the floating point, though I'd be surprised if that affected booting. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 3 months

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Clock speed of the 4004?

by dastar＠wco.com

Anyone know what the clock speed of the 4004 is? Courson's web page mentions it not. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

2
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[Rare systems]

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine? I seem to recall bot <UNIX and C were spawned around 1968 or so, but the first UNIX micro By 1978 it had been ported to Interdata 8/32, Honeywell 6000 and IBM System/370. This information was obtained from the preface of "The C programming language" Kernighan and Ritchie. There is no question in my mind that Unix (and flavors) is the most widely ported(to different platforms) OS of them all. CPM is likely a close second as most widely implemented on platforms with similar CPU but often radically different IO. The reason I added this is like unix, CPM ran on 8080 (z80, z180, z280, NSC800), 8086 (8088, 80186...) and 68000. UCSD Pascal P-system is the only other that was ported to non similar CPUs like 8080/z80, PDP-11, 6502 (Apple][), wd microengine. Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Spacewar

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone here know if <italic>Spacewar</italic> was ever ported to <the Kenback, Mark-8 or Altair 8800? Any information on early games for <these machines (even ports of basic games like Advent) would be very <enlightening... Can't speak for the other systems but, space war, lunar lander, TREK (aka startrek), Adventure were all run on the s100 8080 systems that include the altair. I have a box of 8" media (CPM) with adventure, zork(I,II, III) and at least 30 other titles maybe more. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> PDP11/74, < <Did DEC ever market these, or were they (all four of them, or <whatever) just a last ditch effort to save the PDP-11/70 line? No, never marketed. Accoring to some they were built with existing parts. It was not persued because it would eclipse the vax and the 11/70 design was not emi/rfi complient and would be very difficult to make it so. At the time the 16 bit mini market was seen to be getting smaller in favor of the 32bit superminis. <Certainly, although the PDP-12s might be close to being kicked off the <"very rare" list. I hesitate to add the KS-10s, as I think there are <probably more of them hidden away (or maybe actually doing work!) than w <think. When you consider there were no more than a 1000 of either that's pretty scarce if 1-2% still survive. Allison

28 years, 3 months

4
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Remove

by DiesIrrae＠aol.com

Latah!

28 years, 3 months

1
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Clock speed of the 4004?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Anyone know what the clock speed of the 4004 is? Courson's web page <mentions it not. I'd guess around 500khz (typical for silicone gate Pmos) but the published instruction cycle time is 10.8uS(likely a trivial register move). It took something like 4-5 clock cycles to get an instruction cycle minimum as address (4bits at a time were output) and instruction was input the same way. Instruction could and did take several cycles so this CPU was NOT fast. ;) Allison

28 years, 3 months

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IBM Selectric used as printer on Apple ][+

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I bet it made some of the Big Blue types sick! Why? There was a version of the selectric design and used as a keyboard printer. I've seen them on tandy, NS* and others with both serial and parallel ports. Duratec was one company selling them configured that way. The serial ones used 134.5baud! Not only did they print well and reliably they had different typeballs. As printers went they were fairly quiet too. Allison

28 years, 3 months

3
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North Star Horizon [Rare systems]

by allisonp＠world.std.com

That's exactly right. An obscure (by today's standards for sure, but <don't know about back then...the references in the trade literature of th <era are scarce) company that made S-100 boxes in the '75-'77(?) timeframe <The one I have is very small, measuring about 12" wide x 5" high by 18" <deep. It has a small, 4-slot backplane and a power supply, with not muc <room left over internally for much else. Nice boxen, then had others in the line. The small 4-5slot was used for the POLY-88 a real small s100 system. I wouldn't mind finding a 4-5 slot box as I could put a fully complete system in that (z80, 64kram, FDC, 4port serial). Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I am interested in purchasing the North Star Horizon. I am not local <and don't have a trade so would be a cash deal. < <Do you have any info about the machine such as amount of memory, type of <floppy(ies), last known operating system, hard drive (if any), keyboard, <monitor, and condition (working/nonworking). Why? It interests me why some one wants a particular machine especially since you do not seem to know much about it. FYI: NS* were setup with 16-62k of ram. There were three common OSs run on them NS*dos(nothing like PC dos), CP/M-80, there was also UCSD pascal P-system. I believe NS*dos reached at least V5.4. They didn't not use a monitor or keyboard as a terminal was commonly used. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> parallel port. In the 78-81 time frame, most video cards were 64char < <Probably 64*16 (exactly 1K characters). Easy to design and not wasteful <of RAM. Exactly aslo 64x16 was considered reasonable for TV via video modulator. <I've got some CCS bits here - Z80 CPU card, disk controller, CP/M master <disk and one of the boxes. It's about the smallest full S100 box I've <ever seen. Yep! I ahve two complete systems one has a Discus(morrow/thinkertoys) 8" 10mb(memorex 101) hard disk. Both are operational, have full docs for them. <CASU was a not-too-bad UK S100 manufacturer. The machines were certainly <stable. But they didn't design all their own cards - standard <configuration was a Cromemco Z-PU processor board and a Micromation <Doubler disk controller I think. Oh, with those wonderful <linear-positioner Persci drivers... Well the persci drives were uh, uhm interesting but the S100 boards are considered quite good. Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Rubber keypad repair

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This is semi-OT, but computers had these too (PDP-11 panel?) These are composed of a sheet of rubber with buttons stamped into it. On the other side of the sheet are black pieces of metal. After a while, these keypads start to wear out, and require more pressure or multiple tries. How can I fix this? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

3
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IBM 5100 Manual Set

by dastar＠wco.com

Well, certainly the find of the day was the IBM 5100 manuals. I found them in a crusty used book store in a last-class indoor flea market, buried amongst old binders. I got the "APL Introduction" and "APL Reference Manual" and the "BASIC Introduction" and "BASIC Reference Manual". The BASIC portion is a photocopy of the original but the APL set is the original. By the way, there's a reason why you don't see Microsoft Visual APL these days. What a messed up language! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

7
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Pens for HP 7475A plotter?

by snp＠niia.net

You should be able to find compatible pens at any drafting supply house that deals in plotter supplies. There are a couple of mail-order ones as well -- try looking in the ads in Cadence or Cadalyst magazines. You should be able to use almost any CAD package -- just contact the tech folks for the package as to which drivers to use if they don't specify the 7475. Paul Braun NerdWare

28 years, 3 months

1
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Slacker redemption time

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Uh-huh. It's time to move out of my apartment. Is the HP 3000 any > good (in terms of how interesting it is)? Well, that depends how you define interesting. If you are thinking of the purported Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times", then I'd have to say no, they just work and don't try to be interesting at all. That's why I like 'em. On the other hand, they run an operating system called MPE that is interesting in that it's pretty much its own thing, so if you're thinking of the OS world in terms of "Windows" vs. "Unix" vs. "old stuff that isn't relevant any more" then this will expand your mind and maybe introduce you to interesting things like files that aren't just streams of bytes and pseudo-half-duplexish terminal I/O that is oriented toward transferring blocks of characters, not just one at a time. I looked at the URL that Greg Troutman posted. The description is about as clear as mud and somewhat less useful, but it does make clear that what is offered is a fairly large system. It's hard to say what an HP3000 is beyond "a minicomputer that runs MPE" because there are several different architectures (two major instruction-set flavors with several different hardware and I/O schemes) that could be inside the box. The series number is how you tell them apart; series >= 900 is PA-RISC and <= 70 (or with the name "Micro <mumble>" in place of a series) is the "classic" 16-bit stack-architecture. At a guess the system is a late-model "classic" (probably a Series 64/68/70), or an early-model PA-RISC (like a Series 950). If it is still supported by HP, HP is probably real close to dropping hardware maintenance on it. Oh yeah, that some of the classics are called "Micro" is a hint: they're smaller, lighter, and their Thirst for Power may be satisfied with residential electrical service. -Frank McConnell "I want my MPE" (w/apologies to Dire Straits)

28 years, 3 months

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Pens for HP 7475A plotter?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > I just picked up an HP 7475A Plotter ($5) and want to get it working. > Anyone know where I can get a set of pens for it? Also, what software can > use this thing? It has an RS-232 port. Hmm, looks like HP discontinued all the pens and stuff in late 1995. They now suggest calling some other vendors who I guess may still make the pens. See http://www.hp.com/cposupport/plotters/support_doc/bpp01965.html for names and numbers. Or just go to http://www.hp.com, click on the "search" link, type in "plotter pens" and click the <mumble> button. That will get you to a bunch of documents of varying usefulness including the above. Sometimes you can turn up new-old-stock fiber-tip pens in the usual places (swap meet, with other old computer stuff, &c). NOS in this case means still sealed in a foil bag that has a "use by" date. I've no idea how well the pens keep past that date, but those are the sorts of things we used to use with the plotters in an office environment. What might be better at this point in time is to look for refillable drafting pens. I don't know, I've never tried to use those. As for software, the FAQ says that there are Win3.1 and Win95 printer drivers for these things! Imagine that...no, actually, I think I'd rather not. What the plotter really wants to see is called HP-GL; it's pretty much a command language with pen-motion primitives for drawing lines and text. I can't remember how much you could get it to do w/r/t shapes and filling or whether you had to do that on the computer side and turn it into an HP-GL sequence for the plotter. Check your ObClassic Graphics Package to see if it can spit out HP-GL. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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Pens for HP 7475A plotter?

by dastar＠wco.com

I just picked up an HP 7475A Plotter ($5) and want to get it working. Anyone know where I can get a set of pens for it? Also, what software can use this thing? It has an RS-232 port. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

1
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Bits to give away

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Got something I can't use and hope one of you can. Available for cost of shipping (or free for pickup in San Antonio, Texas). 1 ea. Vertical floor pedestal case for Dec Rainbow. Encloses the Rainbow system unit and holds it vertical so it's a tower configuration. Has nice vents top and bottom and exits top and bottom for power and monitor/keyboard cables. Won't work with *my* Rainbow. Causes the computer to hang, crash, or otherwise fail either on installation or a few minutes later. My motherboard is pretty loaded up with daughtercards and I'll bet one of them is vibrating or jarring loose in the vertical orientation. I decided I can live with a desktop Rainbow as opposed to a floor tower. One other quirk, the cooling air flows *down* in this setup. The fan has to fight gravity to cool the system. On the other hand, at least it doesn't suck dirt off the floor into the system's innards. Anyone interested, contact me at mtapley(a)swri.edu - Mark

28 years, 3 months

1
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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Truely rare: PDP1/4/5/6/9 Collectively there may have been 3000 total. <PERQ 3a, PERQ 2T4 (a lot rarer than the 3a, BTW), HH Tiger ?, AMT DAP <(?), Tandy Deluxe CoCo, PDP11/74, HP95-C (OK, it's a calculator), Philips 11/74, there were at most 4 possibly 5 constructed and all 4 within DEC were disassembled and used as 11/70s or scrapped. The fifth was at CMU and that was also scrapped. NEver made it to production as it was more powerful that vax780 and would never pass EMI/RFI standards that were appearing. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
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IBM 5100 Manual Set

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 17 May 1998 8:07 Subject: IBM 5100 Manual Set > >Well, certainly the find of the day was the IBM 5100 manuals. I found >them in a crusty used book store in a last-class indoor flea market, >buried amongst old binders. > >I got the "APL Introduction" and "APL Reference Manual" and the "BASIC >Introduction" and "BASIC Reference Manual". The BASIC portion is a >photocopy of the original but the APL set is the original. By the way, >there's a reason why you don't see Microsoft Visual APL these days. What >a messed up language! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yeah there is lots of good finds out there if you take the trouble to look for them..... I love digging around at my local 'tip shop' for old computers and books....

28 years, 3 months

1
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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> CCS, compupro, altos, Vector and a few others had S100 boxen that were <> equal or better (compupro was really good!). < <Altos, Allison? All of the ones that I have ever seen were essentially <single board computers. Don, Single board as in s100 or single board as in no bus? The early ones were SBC s100 though it ws common to put them in a box with more IO, hard disk or customer unique periperals. There were several single board systems that were s100 bus, SDS, teltek, macrotec were a few. Some were complete systems on one card others required FDC or other IO, most could be extended using hard disk controllers, more IO or multiple processors. Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:25 PM 5/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >last Friday May 8th -- coincidentally the 10th anniversary of the >death of Robert A. Heinlein {who wrote about the most _likeable_ Ummm... hate to be nit-picky, but RAH passed on while I was working with Aetna, about 5? years ago... I remember; I cried. (Jerry Garcia was when I was at Longs, the first time around.)

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:26 PM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >The problem with introducing elementary and middle school kids to >computers so early is that they either a) know more than the lab admin, or >b) aren't allowed to use them in any constructive way. I'm only in the >tenth grade, but I've already seen seven new labs installed in area schools. >The school districts almost ALWAYS spend WAY too much on new computers, The problem there isn't that computers are a waste of money; it's that the educators aren't knowledgeable enough to know how to put them to use. It would be better to buy a few less computers and send the teachers to a course on how to integrate computers into their curriculum. My girlfriend does a wonderful job of putting computers to work. So does the rest of her school. But she has an advantage; not only did she grow up/lives in SF (where computers are overly prevalent) but she has me for a boyfriend, one brother is a successful programmer/sysadmin, and the other one is going to school for the same. She has spread herknowledge/skills to the rest of the school. >aren't used until high school, when word processing/database, programming, A shame and a waste. >and other such courses are offered. Anything before is mainly a waste of >money. Not true. Computers without training (as in ANY industry) are a waste of time. Computers in the hands of educators who nkow what they're doing is an incredibly powerful tool. >What about the 'net? I don't understand why people think that the >internet is such a great "tool" that will help schools. Just do a search >for "barbie" on Yahoo. Or, for that matter, try "video" or something The 'net is a tool for communication, excellent at bringing together people of disparate backgrounds. Just as we're doing here. I've a friend who's on his way back from South Africa; when he gets back, he and Rachel are going to get together to see about getting kids there talking with kids here. It is also an excellent reference. Sure, putting a single word into Yahoo's search engine will get you all kinds of (irrelevant) hits, but something like AltaVista's search syntax is incredible, if you know how to use it, and it does promote thinking about your problem/goal to come up with the keywords that will return the most relevant hits. >In other words, most of the money spent on computer equipment is a waste. Well, send 'em out here to Garden Village Elementary in Daly City. They'll put 'em to use.

28 years, 3 months

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Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:22 PM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone heard of such a beast. It's a rather large "laptop" with a scrunched lcd >display. Has two half height 5 1/4 floppies. From the keyboard it looks like a >pc clone, but it also has a db25 terminal out port on the back. Yep. Got one. It is a semi-compatible PC, iirc.

28 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<[NS* terminal .vs. video board] < <Oh, agreed. The original Horizon configuration was to have a serial <terminal. I seem to recall a pair of 8251-based serial ports on the <motherboard, one of which was used for this. There was exactly that, two serial ports, a hearbeat interrupt and a parallel port. In the 78-81 time frame, most video cards were 64char and only some had decenders. Terminals onthe other hand were 80char, full upper/lowercase and generally required less software than a memory mapped display. <a serial port (and a standard MDA card), etc), I wondered if a Horizon co <be set up with an S100 video card as well. I guess it can. Most s100 crates could be...even a SOL could ahve more than one! <YEs, it does look to be a nice machine. One day, when I've got a few <minuts spare, I'll dig mine out again and look at it more seriously. After working with the Altairs noisy bus and toggling boot loaders it was a pleasure to see good signals and boot on reset. The IMSAI was a better machine than altair but when I moved up I really didn't want a front pannel and I needed more serial IO, the NS* box, CPU and the MDS I had in the altair solved most of my problems. CCS, compupro, altos, Vector and a few others had S100 boxen that were equal or better (compupro was really good!). Allison

28 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au < desieh(a)bigfoot.com < museum_curator(a)hotmail.com <Apple Lisa Web Page: <http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm < <I have own a NorthStar Horizon very nice little computer abit heavy, mine <in the wooden box and has a pair of 5 1/4" floppy drives in the front an <yes it runs off an terminal..... Of course it does, mine has for 20 years! <mine even has full docs and the origianl receipt of purchates from aroun <1976..... Try '78 or very late 77 as the MDS floppy predated the horizon. <many of the cards inside it arom from an Altair if my memory is correct.. <A VDM -1? i think thats whats its called...anyway in the manual for this <video card it has the source code for the programmng code for a Altair an <IMSAl mechines.... Yes, still have my VDM-1 (from 1976) and the docs for it. Originally used in my altair. Brief history: I started with S100 in 1975 with the order of my altair (box, 4k, acr and PIO) assembled it in early january 1975. Here in the US the article was December 1974, I ordered as soon as I recieved the magazine (Popular electronics), so it has a low serial number. Over time It was extended with more ran and a VDM-1. Within a few months the NS* MDS floppy was offered and I bought the kit, still have that too. The Altair with it's noisy bus was not reliable and I was tiring of it's poor power supply (despite mods), poor cooling and flimsy box. When NS introduced the Horizon I ordered the s100 box kit (back then metal top was optional!) and the CPU to get a z80 and transfered my ram, MDS floppy, VDM-1, ACR, PIO to the NS* horizon case in early 1978. Less than a year later I would add a Heath H19, Anadex dp800 printer and more ram. Now twenty years later I still have the Horizon and the H19 in use nearly daily with a softsector floppy and a teltek HDC. The MDS floppy, DP800 and VDM-1 are used with another system less freqently (installed in a Netronics explorer 8085). I might add the three SA400s still work just fine. Most of the altair stuff is stored, front pannel is good for debug but otherwise too unreliable. I built the NS* Horizon as it was the first system I'd seen in late '77 that looked like 24x7x365 was possible. Over the years it would be altered, restored to original and hit by lightening twice...and it's still ticking. <only around 30,000 of these fine mechines where ever built so i would sa <that they are very rare these days.... They are common enough in the USA being made in California. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Slacker redemption time

by mor＠crl.com

Okay, for all you so-called collectors who have been lax in filling your homes to the rafters with unloved digitalia, here's your big opportunity to start catching up with me: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=14015888 -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 16 May 1998 11:08 Subject: Re: Another EBay absurdity >> >> IBM PC model 5150: $100 Please. Hundreds of thousands made. Free. >> Laugh it into the ground... Free is the only price. And if that's not good >> enough, I recently picked up a Compaq 386/20 with multisync VGA monitor for >> free...Too bad I can't get the &^$&$(@$%#& 3.5" floppy to work. > >Maybe that's why the 5150 is more desirable :-). After all, you can >always fix those given the techref - no custom chips, full schematics, >etc. No problem... > >> Now to add something new to the list... What are the best/worst for RFI? > >Well, my old Tandy model 1 radiates a bit. > >I would think some of the old DEC backplanes with no metal screening at >all (like the RK11-C and DX11, and even machines in the BA11-F, like the >PDP11/45) would not be trivial to get through EMC tests. I've never had >problems running any of my machines with normal broadcast radio/TV in >adjacent rooms, so it's not a big problem in that sense, but it may be a >pain for amateur/SWL work. > >Worst problem I know is that the harmonics of both the TV line scan and >the VGA line scan are close enough to our standard time service (Rugby >MSF on 60kHz) to totally swamp the RF stage of any such receiver. I >generally have to put the aerial/RF stage in another room at least. > >-tony > heh well on a more moden note my IBM monitor is terible for RF floating around when the monitor kicks in it makes all lights and other computers in the room flicker.... oh yeah it dosent like to be in the room with any other computers ether or thie IBM monitor will start to play up as well....... Oh well......I suppose IBM dosent like to other too many of these mechines around......

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The only problem I have with my rather conventional equipment in terms of RFI is when my monitor changes modes, and I am using an AM receiver right next to it. The sound flickers a bit. I would think that the home computers and games systems like C64, PCjr, etc. couldn't put out too much RFI, since they used TVs for monitors... > >Maybe that's why the 5150 is more desirable :-). After all, you can >always fix those given the techref - no custom chips, full schematics, >etc. No problem... > >> Now to add something new to the list... What are the best/worst for RFI? > >Well, my old Tandy model 1 radiates a bit. > >I would think some of the old DEC backplanes with no metal screening at >all (like the RK11-C and DX11, and even machines in the BA11-F, like the >PDP11/45) would not be trivial to get through EMC tests. I've never had >problems running any of my machines with normal broadcast radio/TV in >adjacent rooms, so it's not a big problem in that sense, but it may be a >pain for amateur/SWL work. > >Worst problem I know is that the harmonics of both the TV line scan and >the VGA line scan are close enough to our standard time service (Rugby >MSF on 60kHz) to totally swamp the RF stage of any such receiver. I >generally have to put the aerial/RF stage in another room at least. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Computer Values

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I used to collect coins when I was a kid, and the Blue Book (wholesale >values) and Red Book (retail values) were my bibles. Coins had a pretty >good grading system, and you could find fairly reliable production data. >I don't know of anybody that has tried to do anything close to this for >computers. I have "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators" by Dr. Thomas F. Haddock that attempts to price old computers. They don't do a very good job, though. According to the book, an Apple IIc is worth $200 - $400 and a Lisa 1 is worth $50 - $150. To be fair, though, the book is from 1993. Anybody know of anything more recent? Tom Owad

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-15 21:07:04 EDT, you write: << > Now to add something new to the list... What are the best/worst for RFI? >> I had an apple ][+ which caused major tv interference. my particular apple had a revision 6 motherboard i believe. later models had a different board and had some metal shielding on the inside. earlier models had no provisions for it. david

28 years, 3 months

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Microscopic Computer Collection?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Noone really cares about used-up silicon. My uncle works at a major company that builds semiconductor factories (A meta-semiconductor factory?), the name of whic escapes me. It is the major one, though. Anyway, he has an bad wafer, of Pentium chips. By the way, is it theoretically possible to make an IC with only a prototype IC and an arbitrary amount of machinery? >>into it within the first 5 or so hits. > >Yes, there's an image of the 4004 die on Coulson's site. But if >collecting classic computers was only about finding GIFs on the >web, we'd all have pretty big collections, wouldn't we? :-) > >Sad to say, but I'd like to get two 4004s - one to smash, one to >keep as-is. I get the impression they're considerably less rare >than many of the computers we collect, having been used in more >popular computerized devices. > >For that matter, I'd like to get more rejected silicon dies. >I have one three-inch wafer containing an HP CPU from the early >80s, and I lusted at the eight-inch wafers I saw at a friend's >office. Anyone know anyone at a foundry? Or do they religiously >recycle the silicon after it's been contaminated with circuitry? > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-13 10:41:03 EDT, you write: << Actually, David Greelish (of "historically brewed" and the "classic computing society") is attempting just such an online price guide. His efforts so far can be seen on: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/ >> what a joke! i just webbed there not long ago and checked his price guide. an H89 for $400? wow, i got mine for free! a pcjr for $50? i cant even give one away! a trs80 model 1 for $200? yea, right! from his "prices" i could sell part of my collection for over $1500. the list is quite sparse though. what about my osi or my portable pc or mac512k with a hyperdrive or my tandy 102 or atari portfolio? i seldom take seriously anyone who attempts to put market prices on old computers. for some light reading and humour goto the above url and check for yourself. david

28 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> NS* were setup with 16-62k of ram. There were three common OSs run on <> them NS*dos(nothing like PC dos), CP/M-80, there was also UCSD pascal <> P-system. I believe NS*dos reached at least V5.4. They didn't not use <> a monitor or keyboard as a terminal was commonly used. < <While agreeing 100% with what you say, is there any reason why you <couldn't put one of the many S100 video boards into an NS* and plug a <monitor into that You'd probably still need a terminal for text I/O, but <I can't see why you can't have a separate graphics display as well. Typical NS* was set up that way. That was not to say they were configured with an assortment of third party cards. Mine never had a NS* ram card >from 1978 on, already had Seals and PT 8kx8 on hand. Also used a PT VDM-1 until I got an H19 a few weeks later. No doubt over time most any combination of cards made it in to a NS* crate. It was a good crate for upgrading and mods. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Anyone interested in a Head Start Explorer? (Laptop -- sorta -- XT w/HDD, needs CGA monitor). - HDD OK, has a virus - Broken backsoace key, some others feel funny (stuck) - Broken on/off switch, needs to be pushed in with pen manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 3 months

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Soviet programmable calculators: anybody interested?

by andy＠topaz.kiev.ua

Hi, all! I'm kinda novice around here... So can't get at once if the topic will be interesting to you chaps. In my school days I used to work with programmable calculators (Soviet ones - .ua was part of SU that days). So if smb finds the topic interesting I can try to recollect all I know about 'em and post right to the group. And I can assume they could be called classic 'cause the last model of this "Elektronika MK" series was issued ~11 years ago. So, if find it worth typing please mail me to andy(a)topaz.kiev.ua -andy

28 years, 3 months

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Microscopic Computer Collection?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

As a teen, I remember scavenging 7400-ish chips and whacking them along the edge to split the ceramic to expose the silicon die, then examining them under a microscope. With that experience in mind, I've saved a number of chips from junked equipment over the years. Has anyone else out there assembled a microscopic chip collection? I've thought about removing the dies from the chips (hmm, might be tough because they're so fragile) and mounting them on slides. Sam's message about the 4004 made me think about this. Coulson suggested a good way to get a 4004 would be to find one in an old cash register. I checked the net for sites for cash register repair companies, and sent a few e-mails, but none had spare 4004s. It would be fun and almost educational to outsiders to have a series of slides showing the evolution of the common Intel chipset, or memory chips. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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Microscopic Computer Collection?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I remember smashing chips. Was pretty difficult, actually. I tortured memory chips. I think this might be a good idea. I can imagine a fairly large market for this, if you're into that sort of thing. THe only problem is: how many 4004s are left, not counting the ones on Voyager? How many were made? >them along the edge to split the ceramic to expose the silicon die, >then examining them under a microscope. With that experience in >mind, I've saved a number of chips from junked equipment over the years. > >Has anyone else out there assembled a microscopic chip collection? >I've thought about removing the dies from the chips (hmm, might >be tough because they're so fragile) and mounting them on slides. > >Sam's message about the 4004 made me think about this. Coulson >suggested a good way to get a 4004 would be to find one in an old >cash register. I checked the net for sites for cash register >repair companies, and sent a few e-mails, but none had spare 4004s. > >It would be fun and almost educational to outsiders to have a >series of slides showing the evolution of the common Intel chipset, >or memory chips. > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Intel 4004 architecture

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm interested in finding out all about the Intel 4004 which, if history <is recorded corrrectly, was the world's first microprocessor. No problemo... according to my 1979 Intel component databook... the last year it was in the data books (along with the 4040). Oh, as a note the 8008 had a shorter life than the 4004! <Was the 4004 chip itslef a microprocessor? Well yes, but I'd have to know what you consider a uprocessor. It was complete in that it contained the Instruction decode, ALU, registers and all the basic timing and control. <Did it require support chips to actually make it functional? Yes, a clock generator, and a pot load of logic or specific support chips. I've seen 290x based designs that used fewer chips total. <I recall that the 4004 was a part of a chip set upon which you could < build applications. Yes there were but, the 4004 could be used alone...awkwardly. <Was the 4004 a serial or parallel architecture? Parallel. Instructions are 8bits and data/arithmetic paths 4bits wide. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Intel 4004 architecture

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

> >I'm sure there are at least a couple of g00r00's on this list who can >provide the information I seek. > >SNIP >Lastly, and most importantly, is their a resource for information on the >4004 that someone off-hand knows exists on the web? > >Thanks! > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com TRY THIS LINK, FOR STARTERS.... http://home1.gte.net/ccourson/4004.htm --Larry

28 years, 3 months

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Intel 4004 architecture

by dastar＠wco.com

I'm sure there are at least a couple of g00r00's on this list who can provide the information I seek. I'm interested in finding out all about the Intel 4004 which, if history is recorded corrrectly, was the world's first microprocessor. Was the 4004 chip itslef a microprocessor? Did it require support chips to actually make it functional? I recall that the 4004 was a part of a chip set upon which you could build applications. Was the 4004 a serial or parallel architecture? Lastly, and most importantly, is their a resource for information on the 4004 that someone off-hand knows exists on the web? Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

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Very interested in classic computer software

by eengelmann＠worldbank.org

How do I find out more about your list or group? My business buys and sells old programming, database and OS software for PCs. ems(a)wdn.com

28 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, I am looking for a decent DEC PDP-series machine though I don't kno <(yet!) a lot about them. I've programmed a couple of DEC machines in <assembler and Pascal during various studies at the local college. That i <somewhat important to be a little prepared but it doesn't amount to much <because I have had virtually no hands-on hardware fun yet. Now I want to <get one to preserve and actually learn more upon. I've not asked here on <the list yet for one that's available, but someday within the next year o <so I will ask if one doesn't show up nearby to me beforehand. While I'm not against it... this is an example. Like what kind of PDP-?? There are PDP-11s, -8s, 10s and others, all different, some quite large. Even within a family like PDP-11 there are unibus machines (11/20, 11/34, 11/44...), Qbus machines (LSI-11, 11/23, 11/73...), CTbus (pro350, 380), bounded PDT-11/130, pdt11/150. There is where a little research beforehand is needed. A pro350 is desktop, an 11/44 could easily be three racks and a washing machine disk. PDP-8s there are at least three major buses used and variations in the family ranging from the small decmates to an older straight-8 or 8I. When put in context "I want a PDP." is a pretty broad statement and could put you in the position of trying to handle something larger in scale (or smaller) than desired. I'm not saying don't but, having a PDP-10 (ka10) means you have at least 40-200 square feet just to set it down and three phase power to run it. <My curiosity at wanting to learn how things work, such as what I've <reported above, has served me very well. I would not have the engineerin <job such as I have now nor the activity I have in the antique radio Part of where my interest in engineering lies and originated from. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Computer Values

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:03 PM 5/14/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >eBay and other online auctions are probably the best gauges of prices >there are, because they represent fairly efficient markets. In fact, some >online auctions that move their own inventory do regression analysis that >tells them more or less what price they can expect to get for any given item. These net auctions cause a great deal of thought in my brain, which is driven by a pure-gold capitalist heart. At first I thought they'd be a great place to pick up bargains on trailing-edge contemporary PC and consumer stuff, but whoa... look at those prices! Sure, they start at $9.00, but you can watch them zoom right up to conventional Best Buy or CDW retail prices *or more*. The question "Yeah, but who pays retail?" is answered "Lots, and many pay more." Someone did their homework when they developed this online auction concept. Or perhaps it exposed its true nature once someone implemented it, and let the market drive it. (Although I wonder if we don't know important details such as the rate at which the auction house successfully collects its percent, or whether auctions have been rigged by shills working for the seller, etc.) So when the historical computer sells for what we (the dumpster-diving cheapskates) see as inflated prices, we may instead me seeing the evolution of a "retail" price for our old junk, and perhaps the anecdotal reports can provide a "dealer" or "wholesale" price, or at least provide the mean. We grimy collectors know that much computer equipment is tossed in the trash, fed to scrap collectors, or is still sitting in warehouse corners. That alone fuels a desire to pick up collectibles for no cost. Just yesterday I introduced myself to a local junk dealer. I missed some kind of mainframe from a local business by a month... but now he knows he can sell me junk for higher than the scrap value, so perhaps he'll remember me for next time. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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Windoze 3.0

by bwit＠pobox.com

Russ, If you get more than one person interested, I believe I can get a couple copies of Win 3.0 for folks. Regards, Bob ---------- From: Russ Blakeman[SMTP:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 3:51 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Windoze 3.0 I have a new copy of Windows 3.0 for sale. It's never been used but the shrink is off of the outer box but the manual is still wrapped and the disks untouched. It comes with 1.2m 5.25" fl;oppies but if someone wants this and needs a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks I can make those and add them to it. I need $15 for it with only the 5.25" disks, mailed to anywhere in the 48 continental states. Add $2.50 (17.50 total) if you wish a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks included (copies from the 1.2's) to cover the floppies and the little extra weight. I have only the one copy so first come first served. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Ditto. I'm somewhat surprised that you can't find anything cheap. In the WantAds, which generally sell Commodore 128s for $300, the Compaq portables go for $10 a piece. >> >>>> Compaq Portable: $100 Pfeh. $15 >>I'd get one for <$15, but I've yet to see one that cheap. Cheapest so far >>is $50. > > Wish you were here. There's six of them sitting in a trift store. They're >ASKING $5 each. > > Joe > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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random bits need new home

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Yes, that's all a decmate needs, though I haven't seen one with an 8" drive. I have the manuals and 5.25" diskettes of WPS, as well as a couple of other random DEC 5.25" disks (MS Windows 1.0 for VAXmate and something else). I ought to download RX8 (or whatever the OS is called) and try it on my DECMate. > >1.) Apple II ProDOS User's Kit. Complete in box. (Includes disk, manuals, > packing list, foam, and other exciting artifacts.) > >2.) Apple II Apple Logo. Includes box, disk, and 2 manuals ("Introduction > to Programming through Turtle Graphics" and "Reference Manual"). > >3.) Box of 8 inch floppies unknown condition: > a.) digital software (BA-M386A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN MATH RX2 > b.) digital software (BA-M471A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN SORT RX2 > c.) digital software (BA-M470A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN COMM RX2 > d.) digital software (BA-M469A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN LIST RX2 > e.) digital software (BA-M387A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN BASE RX2 > f.) digital software (BA-S968B-MA) ALVTAB0 DECMATE SYSTEM TEST > REPLACES: AS-S463A-MA > g.) hand labeled intel "SA/FT/FMS Priam Interface, SMD Interface > for updated byte/serial PCB's" > h.) hand labeled dysan "Backup of Priam test programs" > > The box is one of those that can be attached to others of the same > type. Manual and labels for box included. Whoo-hoo. > >Is #3 enough to get a decmate runnin? > >Make me an offer. Random old Sun bits preferred, cash accepted. > >Thanks, > >--pec >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Slacker redemption time

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Uh-huh. It's time to move out of my apartment. Is the HP 3000 any good (in terms of how interesting it is)? >Okay, for all you so-called collectors who have been lax in filling your >homes to the rafters with unloved digitalia, here's your big opportunity >to start catching up with me: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=14015888 > >-- >mor(a)crl.com >http://www.crl.com/~mor/ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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web site - emulators and info

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi all, For those that care, I just found an interesting web site at http://www.arrgh.demon.co.uk/home.html; quite a bit of info on all the popular old 8-bit machines of the early 80's, plus where to get emulators for these machines from, articles about popular computing characters of the time, etc... have fun, Jules

28 years, 3 months

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test

by Marty＠itgonline.com

For the first time since I subscribed to this list there were no messages from last night. Hmmmm.

28 years, 3 months

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Ali Babas cave

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 12:58 AM 14-05-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: >> That is good news (for us). Do you have contact details for anyone who >> has one? > >The DEC Australia collection probably has one (but they have damn near one >of EVERYTHING DEC made!). If this is discussing a PDP-9 then yes, there is at least one in the collection - the first Digital box purchased by La Trobe in about 1967. There's an interesting story behind this system: In about 1968 the -9 was stored in a basement area which was unfortunately flooded when some high-pressure water pipes ruptured. My current boss (who was Computer Centre Manager at the time) along with the technical officer moved the -9 out onto a lawn and it was disassembled. The parts were then washed and dried in front of radial heaters (one of which is still in use in my bosses office!). The -9 was reassembled but three flip chip modules were found spare! The system ran (without them) for about 10 years before being replaced with a PDP-15, DECsystem-10 and Vaxes of various types. It was decommissioned and moved to the DEA museum collection. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 3 months

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Oh, what a tangled web...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yes, but we're nearly at the dawn of the 21st century. We've got like what... 5 billion? And furthermore, there are several authors on the list, who actually controll their temper. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Oh, what a tangled web... >Greg Troutman wrote: > >> With the recent discussion on the MTPRO price guide, the ZX80 bashing, >> and a bit further back the Enrico Tedeschi flame festival, I found it >> quite amusing to run across the following entry at eBay: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13957826 >> >> For those without a web browser, I'll just say that this is a book on >> Sinclair computer history, being auctioned by the author of the MTPRO >> price guide (who goes by the handle "ClassicComputing" at eBay). Most >> remarkable of all, the book was authored by a gentleman named Enrico >> Tedeschi. > >You sure wouldn't know it by the way he writes in the list area, would >you. I guess anyone can write a book >anymore. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >

28 years, 3 months

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Haven't you ever spelled upside-down words on a calculator before? Q: What is the Divine Comedy about? ( [4] [3] [3] [7] [M+] ) Hell >Russ Blakeman wrote: > >> Remember when the LED HP calculators were banned from high schools and >> considered cheating? My best friend was suspended over just the possession of >> one in school, not even in class. Of course he's a few years younger than I as >> I don't remember calculators being much less than the price of a good used car >> when I was in school. They came down dramatically in 76 when I was going >> through electronics training. I think the one I had cost $105 then and we >> thought that was cheap. > >I was forbidden to take my old Pickett out of its holster many times >back in my early 70s high school days. Never understood what >advantage it was supposed to give me in an EngLit test ... >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

So do you suppose it would be possible to take a shot at figuring out how the thing works? I have no drivers for it. I could look up what the 164P is wired to, saturday or monday. Do you think it would be feasible to develop a driver for it? >> Hitachi HD74LS32P > >Quad 2-input OR gate. > >> 367AP > >Is that another chip? If so, its a hex 3-state buffer > >> 240P > >And that's an octal inverting 3-state buffer > >> 164P > >And a shift register (odd...) > >> MB74LS00 > >Quad 2 input AND gate > >> 138 > >3-8 line decoder. > >> >> TI J549X SN74LS541N > >Octal 3-state buffer. > >Probably some kind of address decoder (the '138) and buffers. Nothing too >unusual (although what the '164 is doing I don't know). > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Televideo 925 switch settings

by mor＠crl.com

Can someone tell me what each of these dip switches do? -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 3 months

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sorry, I always get those things backwards ;) [7] [7] [3] [4] [M+] >On Thu, 14 May 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> Haven't you ever spelled upside-down words on a calculator before? >> Q: What is the Divine Comedy about? >> ( [4] [3] [3] [7] [M+] ) Hell > >LEEH? > >-- Doug :-) > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Can we talk about computers at least?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I will do my best to drop by. I don't really intend to buy much, just take a breaking from browsing _virtual_ computer museums > Well Agreed! > > Sorry I haven't been active in the list much... between work and >a family illness I've been _busy_! BTW: Anyone planning on attending >the MIT Flea market this Sunday? I doubt prices are going to be >reasonable what with that $100 PDP-11/23 last month. > >--jmg > >> From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> >> Subject: Can we talk about computers at least? >> >> People. >> >> Could we move the discussion about the perceived woeful inadequacies of >> the current state of public education to a more appropriate forum? Like >> say a usenet group? Or a new mailing list? Basically anywhere but here, >> where it really does not belong? > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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3.5

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I remember frying a //c by plugging in an 800K external drive. Hey! It fit! >On Wed, 13 May 1998, David Williams wrote: > >> Early versions of the Apple //c didn't have the support for 3.5" >> drives. Mine is like that. You can check which version of the //c >> you have by going into Applesoft and doing a PRINT PEEK(64447). If >> it returns 255 then you have an original //c. The tech ref shows 3 >> basic versions and their ID bytes as follows: >> >> Original //c : ID Byte = 255 >> >> UniDisk //c : ID Byte = 0 > >Mine returns 0, so this is the one. It should support 3.5" drives, though >possibly not the one I've got. > >> Added 3.5" support >> Increased ROM to 256K > ^^^^ You've GOT to be kidding me! > >Unless it means "ROMs that will support 256K of RAM". > ><snip> > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Windoze 3.0

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have a new copy of Windows 3.0 for sale. It's never been used but the shrink is off of the outer box but the manual is still wrapped and the disks untouched. It comes with 1.2m 5.25" fl;oppies but if someone wants this and needs a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks I can make those and add them to it. I need $15 for it with only the 5.25" disks, mailed to anywhere in the 48 continental states. Add $2.50 (17.50 total) if you wish a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks included (copies from the 1.2's) to cover the floppies and the little extra weight. I have only the one copy so first come first served. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 3 months

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