- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Haven't had all that much thrifting lately so I have been pretty quiet. I just wanted to post about my jaunt to San Jose last weekend (for those of you not familiar with the region it is pretty much the center of what they call Silicon Valley). First off for those of you who live in the area, you guys drive like maniacs, you know there things called 'speed limits' and many cars are equipped with a 'turn signal' to signal switching lanes. Ok back on topic (if this were very much on topic), while my wife attended the 'Rubberama Rubber Stamp Show' I had the opportunity to check out 'theTech Museum of Innovation' It was very facinating obviously it has been supported by Intel with a mock-up clean room displaying the processes of making chips with examples, machine displays and videos. (you can even buy shiny 'bunny-suit' dolls in the gift shop) Also there was a rather interesting section on robotics, some on recycling, and a section devoted to space exploration but save for a few snapshots (of Woz's workbench and HP's garage) there was not any classic computers to be seen *sigh*. Oh and an internet/computer instruction center too, but I didn't spend much time there. The said some of the exhibits are on the new building (scheduled to be opened October 31st) so if you are thinking of visiting in the future you may want to wait. I did pick up an interesting souviner, a small hunk of processed silicon (looks like leftovers from the vats where they form the ingots). I only bought one and now think I sould have stocked up - for stocking stuffers and the like (Hey, if any of you volunteer there or go by the museum, could I get you to purchase some more for me? please???) So six bucks gets you adult admission. If you are interested in the chip manufacturing process and want to see some robots and stuff I think it's worth the money (and if you are too cheap for $6.00 at least you can see the billiard ball display just outside the entrance.) Oh, here's the web address for more details on the place: http://www.thetech.org/ -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years

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Microprocessors and who made them?

by dastar＠wco.com

Is there a reference somewhere listing all the different microprocessors ever made and who the designers were? Preferrably such a list would include a way (or hint of a way) to contact the designer of said microprocessor. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

28 years

4
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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What do you believe the frequency changed to ? (nominal 60Hz, right. <Well, anything from 50Hz to 70Hz (say) would be no problem at all). Id sueggest if you average 0hz(no power!) and 60 hs you may get someting inbetween. However the 0hz state must not exceed 8-10 cycles or you will no question get power fail. ;) Likely the power supplies dropped out whe the line voltage got below 88v. Most of those supplies will regulate down to that. However if there is also a dropout at 88V it will stop regulating as there will not be enough stored energy in the caps to hold it up. FYI: 400hz not only gets you smaller transformers it also reduces the size of the filter caps needed to remove the ripple from the rectifiers. The size and weight difference is significant when you combine the two. Allison

28 years

2
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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Ours did that Friday, and the servers aren't happy with it. I'm heading in now to clean the mess up. Just out of curiosity, is there an actual term for this? Does it sounds like BS? And, what do you think it did to the MicroVAXen... We were told this was what had happened by the power company, does it sound like BS or what? -------

28 years

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Final Xerox Star demo

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What processor did it use? Also, what will be done to the machine after the "last run"? >On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Larry Groebe wrote: > >> >Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >> >available? >> > >> >thanks >> > >> >Kai >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >> >Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM >> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >Subject: Final Xerox Star demo >> > >> > >> >>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >> >>workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >> >>demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >> >>this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in >> >>the history of computing and user interface design. >> >> >> Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star >> emulator? How fast could those things have been? > >Not terribly. IIRC, there was a discernable lag between keystroke and >the appearance of the character on the monitor screen! > > - don >> --Larry >> > > donm(a)cts.com >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 >*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

2
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RL02 Me 2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well, since we have raised the topic of RL02... I have a pair that I (for some reason) would like to have hanging on my freshly-undead 11/34. I have the RL11 (M7762) and two 02s, whose 'READY' lites have '0' and '1' respectively. I have no other docs or info presently. [NOTE I would love to purchase / pay for copying / trade for these docs] I have put the controller in place of a bus grant cardlet, and have the cables properly done and the terminator on drive '1'. I have a disk pack marked RT-ll V5 that was in drive 0 when I got them, and all the hardware came as a (once working) set. I have the old 9301 boot card in now... I have a 9312 that came with the RL02 system but it causes the 11/34 to hang on power-up. From posts addressed to Zane.. I think that I have controller issues... and I certainly have no idea how to place/configure the RL11.. but at least the Magic Smoke is staying in the ICs where it belongs. *********************** Second question: I have several RT-11 disks for the RK05... they *all* boot from ODT (via the 'DK' command) but once KMON is active it gets autistic... the dot prompt appears, but any and all commands elicit the ?ILL CMD? response.... and that's it. It does this with each and every one (6 discs so far) I have the docs for RT-11 V2, and the Quick Reference booklets... and a working 11/73 with V5 on it.. so I'm a little familiar with RT-11. Does this above behavior point to anything stupid I'm doing, or......? And to think: I gave up Volunteer Bomb Disposal for this...... Cheers John

28 years

2
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Final Xerox Star demo

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >available? > >thanks > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Final Xerox Star demo > > >>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >>workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >>demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >>this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in >>the history of computing and user interface design. Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star emulator? How fast could those things have been? --Larry

28 years

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Final Xerox Star demo

by engine＠chac.org

At 15:28 6/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >available? Me too please? I'll be in New York on the 17th.... __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years

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Books

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sun, 31 May 1998 09:39:22 -0500, John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: >>I think Gates & Allen's first "company" was "Traf-o-data", run on >>someone else's PDP equipment. I recall it was analyzing traffic >>data. I only remember because about the same time, I was doing >>nearly the same thing as my Eagle Scout project, summarizing >>traffic and accident data for a city. Gates and Foust, the >>ominous parallels, oh yeah. :-) I thought that it was a custom piece of hardware that they used. Maybe that was the front-end. The book "Gates" is in the attic;I'll have to get it. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

28 years

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Final Xerox Star demo

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: Larry Groebe [mailto:lgroebe@insidermarketing.com] | Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:34 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: Final Xerox Star demo | | Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star | emulator? I've got one! It's called an "Apple Lisa" :) Kai

28 years

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Final Xerox Star demo

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes available? thanks Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Final Xerox Star demo >Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in the >history of computing and user interface design. > > Final Demo of the Xerox Star Workstation > 5:30 to 7:00pm > Wednesday June 17th > Auditorium Xerox PARC > > > Unquestionably, one of the major design innovations of this century >has been the Graphical User Interface, with its desktop, icons, pop-up >and pull-down menus and ubiquitous windows. The explosion of computer usage >in the last decade has in large part been made possible through this simpler >and more direct method of user interaction. > > Though millions of people around the world are now using GUIs, few >outside of the Human/Computer Interaction field or the Silicon Valley >are aware of the history of the its design prior to the introduction >of the Macintosh in 1984. > > The first GUI ever developed was the work of Dr. Douglas Englebart, >a researcher at SRI (the Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, CA) in the >mid-1960s. His visionary and pioneering design and prototypes succeeded in >producing the world's first screen-based windows, cursor-selectable pop-up >menus, as well as the mouse with which to interact with them. > > Though these innovations were truly revolutionary, it was not until >a decade later when researchers at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) >began systematically studying this system in a commericial development effort. >The Xerox Alto personal computer workstation was developed in the late 70's >and included a mouse pointing system. This system influenced later systems >such as Bravo, which was developed at Xerox PARC by Bruce Lampson and included >an integrated editor formatter. Later systems included Markup, Draw, and Star. > > Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) has been a cradle of Silicon >Valley innovation for 25 years. Its research spans domains from atoms >to anthropology, from its solid-state physics lab, which develops new >laser diodes for use in printers and copiers, to the group that studies >work practices and their possible impact on current and future products. > > Located in the Stanford University Industrial Park in the heart of >Silicon Valley, PARC was charged upon its founding in 1970 to the >"architect of the information age". Since then it has delivered into >use such significant pieces of the current information infrastructure >as laser printers, graphical user interfaces, object-oriented >programming languages, and Ethernet local area networks. PARC has >contributed to user interfaces, electronic components, embedded >software and architectures for each new line of Xerox copiers, >printers, and systems reprographics products. > > > > Directions to Xerox PARC > >>From Highway 101, take the Oregon Expressway exit west 2 miles to >El Camino Real. Oregon Expressway becomes Page Mill Road at El Camino. Follow >Page Mill Road 1.7 miles to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn left. Coyote >Hill Road is just past the intersection with >Foothill Expressway. Go one-half mile and PARC will be on your left. >Follow the signs to the auditorium. > >>From Interstate 280, take the Page Mill Road exit. Go east one mile >to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn right. Go one-half mile and >PARC will be on your left. Follow the signs to the auditorium.

28 years

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Who exactly decided that there was a frequency change? It seems strange that they could have known if there are no monitors to check and this is not a central problem. Of course, if this was a resonant transformer and the guy shorted it, or he hooked the transformer to a portable generator that the construction company was using, or he temporarily powered it with a solenoid using a jackhammer for a slug... >> Who knows hertz and 60 volts. A serviceman across the hall did something > >Let me guess. 60Hz and 60V. It's very difficult (I'd say impossible, but >then somebody will find a way !) to change mains frequency by miswiring a >transformer. Voltage, sure. > >Actually, I do have a device somewhere that provides the 25Hz for UK >telephone bells from the AC mains. It contains a transformer with a >winding resonated to 25Hz by a capacitor. And it's 'kicked' into >oscillations by a 50Hz mains winding on the same core. But that's hardly >the sort of thing you can make 'by accident'. > >> [When you get to the machine room, power line monitors etc.] >> Don't make me laugh! Our machine room is a closet. > >That doesn't prevent you having power line monitors. > >> Oh, and who uses 400hz for line frequency? > >I've seen it used on aircraft equipment (small, light transformers and >smoothing caps). Didn't IBM use it on some mainframes/minis? > >> >> I am officially here, by the way. CILCO is still yelling at A&B Construction >> (Or whomever they were...) and my boss wants to go help. The machines >> seemed to care more about halving the line voltage (Which I wasn't told > >Oh, indeed. Halving the line voltage will cause all sorts of problems. >Few power supplies can cope with that and give the rated outputs. > >> about) than the frequency change... >> ------- >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
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IBM stuff

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

And then WYSE can post their patents and try to sue them both! > >John, > > Hey, that really looks great! I heard a while back that IBM was going to >post all of their patents on the net. Now if HP will just do the same! > > Joe > >At 07:56 PM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Hey Joe, >>Check this out!! I was looking for an IBM web site that might have your >>SCSI drive infomation on it when I stumbled upon this!! Boy...it's been a >>long time since I thought about this stuff!! >> >>http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168 >> >>John >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Spring CP/M-UG N.W. Swap Meet this Saturday

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

For those in the N.W. Oregon / S.W. Washington area (or those inclined to drive a bit) B^} The 'n'th Annual Spring edition of the CP/M-UG Swap Meet will occur on Saturday June 6th, on Rose Festival Parade day just as always. It will be held in the lower level of the Senior Citizens Center on Omera, just south of the Tigard (Oregon) City Hall on Hall Blvd. (not too hard to reach from I-5 or Hwy-217) As always, it's Free, Easy, and Non-Fattening! (except perhaps to your wallet or garage, depening on your approach!) Bring your Junk, your Treasures, and your Wallet! The only rule is... Leave Nothing Behind! (NO garbage service!) Address: 8815 S.W. Omera (Just south of Fanno Creek on Hall Blvd.) Tigard, OR. Hours: 0800 to 1500 or whenever the good stuff runs out! (8am to 3pm for the layfolk) Fees: No charge! (we pass the hat for contributions) NOTE: Tailgating is encouraged! Some of the best deals are made in the parking lot! (before, during, and after!) See you there! --- For additional details, (directions, etc.) call Gary @ Oregon Electronics (503) 293-5293 or drop me a e-mail. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years

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RL-02 Question

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

In the pile of stuff I got yesterday was an RL-02 and a Q-Bus controller for it. I've placed the Q-Bus controller in one of my SMS-1000's (PDP-11/73), and am trying to get the drive to spin up. Looking through my archives of the mailing list, it looks like the drive itself is fine. I think my problem is on the PDP end. The motor spins for about 15 seconds, I hear the click, but the fault light stays on. I've reversed the way I've got the cable plugged into the board, but still know luck. I suspect my problem is that the SMS-1000 doesn't support RL-02's. The Boot ROM's seem to be built into the beast, and I suspect it only supports Hard Drives (DU), TK50's and floppies. I guess my next project is to try and attach a TK-50 to the machine, as I got a small stack of TK50's with the stuff yesterday, and it looks like they've got TSX-11-something on them. Do PDP-11's have the VAX equivalent of Standalone Backup? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 26 May 1998 22:27 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >At 06:44 PM 5/26/98 +1000, you wrote: >> >> >>I have one question , well I actually have two...... >>though, what software came on cassetes? >>and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that >>makes them die??? >> > I dunno about the FH drives. I've never seen one die! They seem to >last forever! > > Joe > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm oh well with my 5150 it has two FH IBM drives in i and they both seem to be dead, Ive replaced the controllor card check the dips, checked power output, it seems here in Austrlaia these drives are almost impossable to get a hold of......

28 years

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 10:52, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Oh, and who uses 400hz for line frequency? > > Common AC distribution voltage on aircraft and other weight-is-important > vehicles. And on some IBM mainframes, I believe. A friend of mine obtained a 360, and was most upset when the previous owner decided to keep the 50Hz-to-400Hz converters. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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RL-02 Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 7:41, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Even then, it only does 18-bit DMA, so whether it's useful depends on the > > O/S -- RSX11 and Unix manage fine > > Really? Which version RSX11M? Which Unix? Certainly the recent versions > of 11M+, as well as 2.10 and 2.11BSD, will crash very badly if you use > them on a system with more than 124 kWords of memory and a RLV11. My RSX11M 3.2 and 4.1 manage fine. AFAIR, it's supported -- it's certainly in the manual somewhere. The driver understands that it has to be careful about using the bottom 124K words for disk access. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:23 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > >> FWIW, the company that currently sells Heathkit manual reprints doesn't >> look too kindly on people publishing web manuals from what I've heard. >> I'd sure like to publish my stash too if I could do so without getting sued. > >Hmm, I know that any patents associated with the EC-1 have expired by >now, but I don't recall how long a copyright lasts (more than 38 years, I >suspect). Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP and a lot of others, and they're still in business! Joe > >-- Doug > >

28 years

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RL-02 proves me an Idiot!

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Well, I've got my RL-02 on the /73 working. The cable on the back had the locking key in the unlocked position. Arrrgggghhhhh, it took me a day to figure that one out! Lesson learned, visual inspections just don't cut it! Of course I don't seem to have Boot ROM's in the SMS-1000 that support the RL-02. I tell it to boot dl0: and it tells me it's an illegal device. Yet the RSX11M boot tape tells me that's the device name. I still haven't been able to figure out what they guy I got this stuff off of could have been using to boot it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years

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RL-02 Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 31, 20:53, Tony Duell wrote: > And I'm not sure if the RLV11 works in 22 bit addressing systems (Tim? > Allison?) I've only got 18 bit addressing CPUs here. It will work in a Q22 backplane providing you remove two links, which otherwise cause the RLV11 to use BC1/BD1 for "other than BDAL18/19". It has to be a straight backplane, with CD-interconnect, of course. Even then, it only does 18-bit DMA, so whether it's useful depends on the O/S -- RSX11 and Unix manage fine, but I don't know about RT-11. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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Anyone have a TS-11 bootstrap?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I'll be needing this soon... -------

28 years

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New stuff, new questions

by dastar＠wco.com

I picked up some odd-balls recently. One item is called a Disk Storage Drive Diagnostic Unit made by a company called Information Storage Systems, Inc. Another unit I saw had a Sperry-Univac label on it. It's obvious what it is, but for what drives? The manual says Model 714 and 715 disk storage drives, but is that hard or floppy? I can't tell from the unit, although my guess would be hard disk. Anyone ever used, let alone heard, of one of these? I also got another, older model, but didn't get a manual with it. (You can find more of these at Mike Quinn Electronics in case you're interested). I also picked up a Standard Engineering Corporation Word Generator (WGR-241). It looks like it is a PDP-11 card, but I'm not totally sure (its got the big horse-teeth edge connector). On the front is 24 SPST switches, I guess for setting a 24-bit word. Any clues? I also got a TI program recorder (for the TI 99/4a) and a couple AtariLab software packages (starter set and Light module), which were little physical sciences experimenter kits for the Atari 400/800. They come with a carthridge for the program, and each one has a different set of sensors that plug into the computer. The start kit has a module that connects to the joystick port, and the other kits' sensors plug into this module so you can get simultaneous readings from different sensors I suppose. The starter kit had a letter in it addressed from one of the design staff thanking whoever recieved the package for their help in bringing the product to market. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

28 years

3
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IBM patents

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hey take a look at this "http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168". I wish the other computer companies would do this! Joe

28 years

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IBM stuff

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

John, Hey, that really looks great! I heard a while back that IBM was going to post all of their patents on the net. Now if HP will just do the same! Joe At 07:56 PM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hey Joe, >Check this out!! I was looking for an IBM web site that might have your >SCSI drive infomation on it when I stumbled upon this!! Boy...it's been a >long time since I thought about this stuff!! > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168 > >John >

28 years

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RL-02 Question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<And I'm not sure if the RLV11 works in 22 bit addressing systems (Tim? <Allison?) I've only got 18 bit addressing CPUs here. The RLV11 is not q22 and MUST have a Q/CD backplane. Allison

28 years

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Q-Bus PDP-11 RAM Board

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I got a non-DEC PDP-11/73 today minus the CPU (not a big deal, I saw the CPU that had been in it, and I've got two of them). Anyway I've managed to identify all of the haul of boards, except the RAM boards. I was told they are 2Mb boards but the person wasn't sure. Also I'm wondering if anyone has the switch settings for them. The board in question is labled: NSC NS23D It also has three jumpers near the contacts. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years

4
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RSX-11M Questions.

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I'd just like to say... THE /73 BOOTS FROM TAPE!!! On the downside, I haven't any idea what to do. I was able to get 7 RL-02 packs, some of which are supposedly bootable, and a stack of TK-50's yesterday, but the documentation had been trashed. :^( He still had the binders, and there must have been 3-4 feet of docs at one time :^( So bear with me, I've not got any documentation (donations gladly accepted :^) The tape boots up to the following: ------- RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Copy System V03 RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program Valid Switches are: /CSR=nnnnnn to change the default CSR /VEC=nnn to change the default device vector /FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number /DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors Enter first device: ------- I went ahead and told it /DEV and it printed out a list of different devices stating what was present. It sees my Hard Drive and the TK50. The question is, what is this, and what do I do? I just tried entering 'DU0:' and it took that, but that seems to be the limit of my ability to fathom it out. BTW I pulled the RL-02 controller out that I was asking about earlier for this. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years

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Pansonic Sr. Partner FS

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

FOR SALE Panasonic Sr. Partner XT (8088) class "portable" computer. Great condition, works great. 2 - 5.25" 360k floopy drives, 512k RAM, 8 bit ISA card slot, composite 9: green CGA monitor and external CGA port. Serial and parallel ports. Built in keyboard. NO built in printer.$45 plus shipping (about 25 lbs) For picture and other info see http://members.tripod..com/~RHBLAKE/fleamarket.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years

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FW: Budpest Collector needs help

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. One of our fellow collectors in Budapest needs help with, of all things, a Russian version of a MicroPDP-11/23. If anyone can help him along, please contact him directly. Thanks! Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: hamster(a)lord.banki.hu (Akos Varga) Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: Knowledge on soviet uPDP models? Date: 31 May 1998 14:00:03 GMT Organization: Banki Donat Polytechnic, Budapest Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6krnp3$rhv$1(a)goliat.eik.bme.hu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lord.banki.hu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 960804] Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!surfnet.nl!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!lord.banki.hu!not-for-mail Does someone with some knowledge of the russian MicroPDP models reads this group? I acquired a machine called MIKI Micro 11/23 System 2500 Team Computer, and it seems it has a russian F-11-clone CPU and some rather strange cards with cyrillian letters on it. The cards are probably from the Soviet company "Elektronika". Now I'm not familiar with these cards, although I could identify them. I'd like to make this machine working again, can someone provide me with some information on how to do this? If yes I can write down all boards and the components on them... This is gettinig iteresting, a soviet uPDP :) / ___ _ _ ___ ____ ___ ___ /__//__///_///__ / /_ / ) Varga Akos Endre hamster(a)netweb.hu / // // /___/ / /__ / ( www.netweb.hu/hamster/english.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PDP 11 Page http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/pdp-11/ Old Irons http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/oldiron/e_index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years

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Books

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 12:56 AM 5/31/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >> >> Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic >> signals. > >I actually felt a little guilty about that. Supposedly, that's how >Microsoft got its start, right? I think Gates & Allen's first "company" was "Traf-o-data", run on someone else's PDP equipment. I recall it was analyzing traffic data. I only remember because about the same time, I was doing nearly the same thing as my Eagle Scout project, summarizing traffic and accident data for a city. Gates and Foust, the ominous parallels, oh yeah. :-) - John

28 years

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Books

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: > I bumped into Frank "Reanimator" McConnell and Paul "Sun Worshiper" Coad > today, and while Paul scrounged for Sun parts, Frank and I did the > "one for you, one for me" thing over a pile of old^H^H^H classic books. > We both left behind the most complete Modula-2 library I have ever seen, Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic signals. Here's what seems to have followed me home: Arithmetic Operations in Digital Computers, Richards, 1955 Computer System Organization: The B5700/B6700 Series, Organick, 1973 (Oooh! Another stack machine!) Currents in the Theory of Computing, Aho (ed.), 1973 Decimal Computation, Schmid, 1974 Implementing Software for Non-Numeric Applications, Waite, 1973 Information Theory and Coding, Abramson, 1963 Internal Sorting Methods Illustrated with PL/1 Programs, Rich, 1972 Low Density Parity-Check Codes, Gallager, 1963 Microprogramming Primer, Katzan, 1977 Sequential Machines: Selected Papers, Moore (ed.), 1964 Systems Programming, Donovan, 1972 Oh, and the IEEE 802.2 (LLC), 802.4 (token bus), and 802.5 (token ring) standards. Curiously enough, I was looking for the first of these at work this week, and the last one may be of use to me too. > After I get my study-at-home PhD in Obsolete Hardware Engineering, I'd be > happy to loan/trade/sell a few of these titles. Similar offer: if you're in the San Francisco Bay Area and have an interest in these, ask, I'm willing to loan them out. Maybe even if you're not in the Bay Area and can convince me that sending them is a worthwhile thing to do. I definitely want to read the Organick book first, though. -Frank McConnell

28 years

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Intel 8008 CPU date codes

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I <recognize. Can somebody interpret for me: < 1209A < 0276R < 1464B < unknown. Tempting to find one and put it in a board I have from '74. <BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"? Cermet, ceramic/metal package. The I8008 were silicone plastic. they are intel parts either way. Allison

28 years

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That I'd heard before, which is why I'm so supprised by the <hardware-encoded keyboard in an otherwise software-driven machine. Things you cant do with a software scanned keyboard: Key pressed interrupt, if the cpu doesn't scan the keyboard it cannot sense activity. It takes some chips extra then to sense any key pressed and cause a interupt to initiate a keybard scan and debounce routine to see what happend. The keyboard chips did n-key rollover and buffered at least one keystroke. Fewer signal carrying wires in the air, the keyboard encoders were slow and didn't create much RFI, scan lines off the bus or a port can be quite noisy. Allison

28 years

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Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> wrote: > Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona > could do any video attribute Wordstar every dreamed of: italics, underline, > strikethrough, bold, etc. See what happens on this list? If you aren't careful, you can learn something new every day! I stand corrected; I used Wordstar on less-capable video. And now I'm wondering whether I could get Wordstar on the HP150 to do this sort of thing.... -Frank McConnell

28 years

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[Off Topic] Just so you all know...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

As of about 10 minutes ago, I am no longer a high school student. I graduated :) I come back here next year as part of the staff. They're hiring me to run the TCP/IP equipment. And, my 11/44 still has a home... -------

28 years

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

Try looking at http://www.heathkit.com/parts.html for parts and repair centers also to get old manuals and scimatics look at bottom of the url page phone 616-925-5899 At 10:06 PM 29/05/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know >> the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP >> and a lot of others, and they're still in business! > >Heathkit *is* still in business, just not quite the same business: > http://www.heathkit.com > >-- Doug > > >

28 years

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Intel 8008 CPU date codes

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 05:19 PM 5/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I >recognize. Can somebody interpret for me: > 1209A > 0276R > 1464B > >BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"? > >-- Doug > Don't know about the date code, but for Intel the "C" means ceramic package, vs. P, plastic. The "H" is a Hermetic (2 pieces of ceramic that look like they are cemented together). I think "C" is the only version the 8008 came in. -Dave

28 years

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help! strange Atari box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi all, I went to a surplus store last week and found an odd Atari box. It says it's an Automatic ROM/RAM Tester. It has two rows of address switches, one switches on one row are labeled 10 through 0 and have LEDs above them. The second row of switches only has five switches and they marked 11 through 15 and don't have corrosponding LEDS. Switch 11 is directly below switch 10, switch 12 is below switch 9, and so on. It looks like they may be multiplexed somehow. The box also has 8 Data switches and LEDs. The are four low insertion force sockets on the box, two are for 25 pin DIPs and 2 are for 20 pin DIPs. There are also various other switchs marked 1K/2K, RUN/STOP, Read/R/W*, and GAME/BOX. There is only one connector on the box, it goes to a 50 pin card edge connector via a ribbon cable. There are no power connectors or other connectors on it so it has to part of a larger unit. Any ideas? Anyone? Joe

28 years

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I had just read the interview oyu mention yesterday. Could someone give me some idea of what chips were involved in this thing? Did it use PROMs, microcontrollers, or what? How can you make a game with 44 chips (not an expression of disbelief)? > >> It's reasonably obvious from looking at the design of all Apple ][ series >> machines and their peripherals that they were designed to use the >> simplest hardware possible. Things like the 'minimalist' disk controller, >> the bit-banger serial port and the Apple ][ I/O structure support this. >> >> Why therefore did all Apple ][s use a hardware encoded keyboard with a >> fairly complex (and expensive) encoder IC? Software scanning would have >> been simpler in the hardware, not added much to the software, and would >> have been more versatile in many ways (the single-wire shift key mod >> wouldn't have been necessary). > >At the time (mid-70's), surplus keyboards with ASCII encoded parallel >outputs were readily available from many sources. Check, for example, >the ads in the back of a '75 or '76 _Radio-Electronics_, or see >many of the articles in the early _BYTE_'s. According to interviews >with Wozniak (for example, _BYTE 1984:12 p.167), it was no big >deal to find such a keyboard, put the right plug on the end, and >plug it in (he says, of the Apple I, "You also had >to get a keyboard and wire it into a 16-pin DIP connector".) > >Apple II motherboards were also available without a case or keyboard >or power supply, and many hobbyists bought these as a way of saving >a couple of bucks. > >Why use an encoder IC? Yes, it is cheaper if you skip this and >have the CPU scan the keyboard. But encoder IC's weren't expensive >at the time, and were an extremely common industry-standard >solution; see, for example, Don Lancaster's _TTL Cookbook_ to get >an idea at how readily available such encoders were in the mid-70's. > >Wozniak often did go for non-industry-standard solutions to >peripheral interfacing, but generally only when it reduced the >chip count. It seems to me that the encoder-IC approach to a >keyboard has a lower part count than if you use SSI TTL IC's to let >the CPU scan the keyboard. > >Chip count was an extremely important thing to Wozniak; for example, >in the same interview I referenced before, he says > >"Nolan Bushnell >was really annoyed because all their new games were coming out at 150- >170 chips. He wanted low chip counts to reduce costs, >and he had seen a version of Pong that I had done, that only used >about 30 chips. He appreciated that. So he said if we could design >a hardware Breakout in under 50 chips, we'd get 700 bucks; and if >it was under 40 chips, we'd get $1000. ... We gave them a working >breadboard for it. My first design was 42 chips. By the >time we got it working it was 44, but we were so tired we >couldn't cut it down. So we only got 700 bucks for >it." > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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my first computer, game of "life"

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi all, I first discovered digital logic and TTL IC's about 1973, and wanted to build something not trivial with them. The project I chose was John Conway's game of "life" as described in Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games in "Scientific American" I ending using a 32x32 element grid using 2 (then expensive!) 2102 rams (No A or other suffix then) I would calculate one generation from one ram and write to the other. I used about a 60kHz clock and 74193 counters to generate the addresses. The clock went to a decade counter and the first 8 states generated +/- x and y clocks to visit the 8 neighbors of a given cell. If the cell was a "1", another counter was incremented, number of neighbors. The 9'th state was at the given cell. The rule was then used: Neighbors =2 and cell active, or Neighbors = 3, then the new cell was active, otherwise it was not. The 10'th clock wrote the cell to the new generation (the other ram). Thus 10 clock cycles were needed for each cell, or 10240 for each generation. This was much faster than a later 4MHz Z-80 program! I displayed the results on a 5 inch oscilloscope, using 555 timers with PNP transistor current sources to charge the timing capacitor, for x and y ramp or deflection waveforms. This was straight out of a National Semiconductor databook. The refresh rate was about 60Hz. The "load" signals for the 74193's was used to write data into locations from address switches. Finally 3 7490's and 7447's displayed the generation number on 7 segment displays. It was fun to watch the generations flash by. The total number of IC's was about 35 + 6 for the generation counter. -Dave

28 years

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Convergent Computers Re: CTOS/BTOS recovery

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I recently found a Convergent computer in a surplus store here. It has the display section, CPU section and hard drive in blocks that attach to each other and looks like it uses some kind of external power supply. Each block had a model number on it but the only one that I remember was CP-001 on the CPU. Anyone know what this thing is and wheather it's worth picking up? Joe At 10:36 PM 5/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi. > >I recently picked up some more Convergent machines at a thrift shop. I was >pretty amazed; my 186 model was the only one I'd ever seen. Now I've got >286 and 386 models. Wow! > >Anyway, I also picked up a few disk modules. Two 85 MB modules, I think. >(compare to my existing pair of 10 MB modules...) One is an 'expansion' >and needs to be connected to another disk module to work. > >My problem is this: the one disk that has CTOS installed was set up as a >'Cluster Controller' and actually has accounts and passwords set up. I can >just press 'Go' at the login on my CM001 and use the system. This doesn't >work on the new system. > >Is there a way I can recover the files on this disk (meaning the OS and >application software)? I have OS disks for the standalone version, but I'd >like to preserve the cluster controller so starting over is a >less-than-ideal option. I do have other working systems and parts >available to press into service for the cause. > >Thoughts, hints, suggestions? > >ok >r. > > >

28 years

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minor find,need info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with <> <> QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it? < <Should be CTL-ALT-ENTER if I remember correctly. Once you're at DOS you c That was the winner, thanks. I should have specifed that it was a Pheonix bios machine. FYI it's a great Minix machine! For those that are interested there is a site on the net (http://minix1.hampshire.edu). Bins and sources are available on the net. It can be run on anything from an XT to P6. There is also a book Operating Systems design and Implmentation 2nd Edition with CDrom of sources and bins. Allison

28 years

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minor find,need info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

This is fairly recent so please reply offlist. Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with a DEC color tube and keyboard. It runs so it's going to become a minix or linux machine. QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it? Allison

28 years

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Tandy web page malarkey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Tandy had little input into the design really), it was a fine machine. <OS-9 on the CoCo was the first real OS I ever used - it taught me a lot <about writing device drivers, multitasking, etc. And the CoCo3 (alas not <at all common in the UK) was a very interesting box. OS9, I've heard a little about it but never seen it. Is it available? I have a COCO (I think a III, has a few ASICs and 128k), no disk controller but that can't be much majik. <And don't forget the 3rd party software for the Z-80 machines. LDOS was <arguably the finest Z80 operating system at the time - it was a lot What ever happend to LDOS? Allison

28 years

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11/34a runs now...

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Many thanks to the Listmembers who have offered suggestions and assistance and info.. I have discovered (and rectified) the problem with my RK05 talking to it's host. I could get into a long shaggy-dog story here, but basically I had the *drive* end of the interface cable in bass-ackward. >>> DOH! <<< (Lame excuse: it's the end you can't see) And now the terminal sez: RT-11SJ V02C-02 . kewl, huh? And, even though the problem turned out to be a forehead-slapper, I must say that I have learned great gobs of stuff about how the drive works, how it interfaces, and what makes it tick. I would *never* have had the opportunity to get such (rare) understanding, had it not been for the long diagnostic journey. And that is one of my goals in collecting these things: to know them well enough to keep them on the air, and to be able to share that knowledge with others in return. Thanks to Tony Duell, Tim Shoppa, Ward Griffiths, and Huw Davies for their generous assistance. Now: get the RL02s on-line, find formatter for the Kennedy 9trk, find an interface for the System Industries 470M drive, get Unix running, &tc; &tc; &tc. But.. TRW Ham/Electronic/Computer swapmeet is tomorrow, the 28th (Sat) here in SoCal... and I'm heading that way... to find all the goodies before Marvin has a chance at them. ;} Cheers John

28 years

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Insanely Great

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Another trio of questions. I am reading Steven Levy's Insanely Great, about the making of the Apple Mac. 1)I finally have learned the purpose of Quickdraw through this book. Do all windowing systems do this, or are there ones that render all windows even if they are obscured. The name of the system I want to know about ought not be mentioned for obvious reasons. 2)It mentioned a "new input device" that was before the Xerox machine, to be used alongside the mouse, was flexible but required training. What was it? 3)Should I keep my reference cards attached to the manuals or tear them off? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Contact

by oboissea＠club-internet.fr

Is there a list or a forum for those who collect classic micro-computers ? please help me. Thank you. Olivier BOISSEAU oboissea(a)club-internet.fr

28 years

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20 years of BYTE

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I took out from the library a sort of collection: 20 years of byte with some historic articles, ads ,etc. from BYTE's point of view in 1994. I liked the timeline, but the articles are very boring and technical. One of the IBM ads says,"The IBM Personal Computer starts at less than $1600 for a system that, with the addition of one simple device, hooks up to your home TV and uses your audio cassette recorder" (1982:1p61). Would this one device be a TRS-80? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by mallison＠konnections.com

Copyrights are valid (those affecting 1960) for 75 years, at least. That's for whoever made them, assumed them, or what have you. Someone owns the rights, whether the company exists or not. -Mike ---------- > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values) > Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 9:34 PM > > At 09:23 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > > > >> FWIW, the company that currently sells Heathkit manual reprints doesn't > >> look too kindly on people publishing web manuals from what I've heard. > >> I'd sure like to publish my stash too if I could do so without getting > sued. > > > >Hmm, I know that any patents associated with the EC-1 have expired by > >now, but I don't recall how long a copyright lasts (more than 38 years, I > >suspect). > > Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know > the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP > and a lot of others, and they're still in business! > > Joe > > > > >-- Doug > > > > >

28 years

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S2350 data sheet

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years

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Token Ring

by afritz＠iname.com

I know this MAY not be 10years yet, but its getting there. Does anyone know a good place to get ISA and (especially) EISA token ring cards? (IBM or 100% IBM-compatible prefered.) I figure there must be someone who's got a bunch they'd love to get rid of. :) I don't want (or like) any of this new PCI-based junk. af ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

28 years

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Insanely Great

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>>2)It mentioned a "new input device" that was before the Xerox machine, >>to be used alongside the mouse, was flexible but required training. >>What was it? > >Doug Engelbart designed a five-key keyboard that would do most of seven-bit >ASCII by accepting chording combinations. His idea was that you'd always >run the keyboard with one hand and the mouse with the other. Sounds cool, but hard to use, especially in a time when to use a computer, you needed to type at least 30-50WPM (WAM), and spent enough time on a computer to compute in your sleep!!! That kind of typing can't be easy to forget. I recently saw a one-handed keyboard, which looked kinda like a MS Natural Keyboard, with the right hand sawed off, and the numeric keypad next to the left. It looked like there were a few extra keys, but you had a key that you held down, kinda like shift, and it would make the oposite character (like A for H, S for J, etc.) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years

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Tandy web page malarkey

by nitedriver＠webtv.net

For data on TRS-80 & LDOS try: http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/ then link to Tim Mann. Regards, JT

28 years

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm thanks I'll have time in the next day or so to pull the thing apart and relay back my findings............ -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 9:03 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >[IBM PC floppy drives] > >> I get nothing out of them, no motor spin up, no led, no >> nothing................... > >I've got the Type 1 drive schematics here (from the O&A TechRef volume 1). > >Let's go through the obvious things first. > >You have a DIP shunt (a little plastic block with shorting bars) in >socket 1E of both drives, right? And a termination resistor pack in >socket 2F of the drive physically furthest from the controller. > >Check that the cables on J4 at the back of the logic board are connected >properly. There are some blank pins (4?) nearest to the edge connector, >and then P8-P12 in order along the pins. > >Also, check the supply voltages - +5V and +12V at the drive when the >machine is turned on. You do have the power cables plugged in, I trust >:-) (don't laugh - I've forgotten them). > >OK, let's sort out the lack of LED first. Unplug the cable from the >controller (leave it hooked up to the drives) and turn on the machine. > >Ground pin 3 of IC 3E (a 7407) in the drive. Does the LED come on now? If >so, then suspect the controller, DIP shunt or cable. If not, then ground >pin 4 of IC3E. If the LED now comes on, then IC3E is defective (or not >geting power). > >Problem is, if IC3E is defective, then how many other parts have been >damaged. 7407's are pretty reliable, so if it's damaged, it sounds like >power problems. You didn't hook up the power cable backwards, did you? > >You can trace the motor on signal similarly. Try grounding pin 16 on the >edge connector (the even numbered pins are on the top of the board, >starting from the end nearest to the notch in the connector tongue), or >equivalently pin 1 of IC3E. If the motor doesn't start,then try grounding >TP13. If that starts the motor, IC3E is defective. If the motor still >doesn't start then I'll have to talk you through the motor control board >at the back. > >> >> >> > >-tony >

28 years

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CTOS/BTOS recovery

by red＠bears.org

Hi. I recently picked up some more Convergent machines at a thrift shop. I was pretty amazed; my 186 model was the only one I'd ever seen. Now I've got 286 and 386 models. Wow! Anyway, I also picked up a few disk modules. Two 85 MB modules, I think. (compare to my existing pair of 10 MB modules...) One is an 'expansion' and needs to be connected to another disk module to work. My problem is this: the one disk that has CTOS installed was set up as a 'Cluster Controller' and actually has accounts and passwords set up. I can just press 'Go' at the login on my CM001 and use the system. This doesn't work on the new system. Is there a way I can recover the files on this disk (meaning the OS and application software)? I have OS disks for the standalone version, but I'd like to preserve the cluster controller so starting over is a less-than-ideal option. I do have other working systems and parts available to press into service for the cause. Thoughts, hints, suggestions? ok r.

28 years

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Computer Values

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have a Heathkit EC-1 analog computer in operational condition with the patch cables, assortment of caps and resistors plus the operating manual. I have entertained selling this (robbing Peter to pay Paul) to help fund a 1939 pre-war television acquisition. A dilemma. Should I part with the EC-1 I doubt I will ever find another. As toward the value of the EC-1 I don't have a clue but would like to know what anyone else thinks a fair price would be. -Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Computer Values Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/15/98 5:38 PM On Thu, 14 May 1998, Marvin wrote: > a TRS-80 Model 4P and a Coco 2. IMNSHO, the values of all computers will > vary greatly depending on the knowledge and experience of the person > doing the valuation. Hmmm, sounds just like *every* other form of > collecting. I used to collect coins when I was a kid, and the Blue Book (wholesale values) and Red Book (retail values) were my bibles. Coins had a pretty good grading system, and you could find fairly reliable production data. I don't know of anybody that has tried to do anything close to this for computers. > I, for one, do like to see what E-Bay is doing. I kept track for a > while of the people who were bidding on the stuff, and there were a > number of people there who were collectors. Last year, I was bidding on > a Sol-20, and the guy who outbid me won the bid at $800 or so. High? I > talked with the guy later on, and the machine was in mint condition, had > all the original documentation, and also included some of the > peripherals. The Altairs that have been sold there are *all* selling > below the prices I have seen for similar systems. eBay and other online auctions are probably the best gauges of prices there are, because they represent fairly efficient markets. In fact, some online auctions that move their own inventory do regression analysis that tells them more or less what price they can expect to get for any given item. If somebody were to do the same analysis on person-to-person auction data, that would be a very good starting place for a price guide (especially from an auction like Haggle Online that also stores condition, make, and model information :-). If you only look at one or two anecdotal transactions, that doesn't tell you much. > FWIW, I tend to value my collection in the millions of dollars. And > that is probably conservative ... if one were to go back in time and > look at what the stuff cost new :). The real question is what value does your insurance company place on your collect. My guess is that they would value an Apple 1 based on a twenty year depreciation starting with a $666 basis! BTW, if, hypothetically, I were to find somebody willing to sell me a Heathkit EC-1 analog computer in good condition, what value would you experts assign to it, and what would you base your valuation on? -- Doug ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May15.173832.1767.41873; Fri, 15 May 1998 17:38:33 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id VAA25383; Thu, 14 May 1998 21:03:19 -0700 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id VAA29926 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 14 May 1998 21:03:09 -0700 Received: from behemoth.host4u.net (behemoth.host4u.net [209.150.128.29]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id VAA06570 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 14 May 1998 21:03:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (yowza@localhost) by behemoth.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA32029 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 14 May 1998 23:03:02 -0500 Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980514224917.29083B-100000(a)behemoth.host4u.net> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:03:00 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Computer Values In-Reply-To: <355BB476.56756898(a)rain.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Sender: yowza(a)behemoth.host4u.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years

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System/34

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have started to dismantle my System/34 so that I can save at least the parts until someone can get them. One question is, does everything in each S/34 plug together the same way? If so, I don't have to label the cables, which is going to be a looong task. Also, how should I park/lock the 62 megabyte hard drive? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
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Mort boards...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

2 datapath boards I was missing for the 785, almost the rest of the 780 (Missing only one board! The microsequencer... [M8235]...) Interesting toys include: A DZV11. Does anyone have the pinout for the distribution panel for this? And a SUMMUS 422-U controller. It has a SCSI-style plug at the top, it's a quad-height ?bus controller, and I'm told it wants a SCSI tape drive attached to it. The main chip says "442/UDT 4641" on top. A ROM is on here, it says "Viking U/B A4.4" Any info on this? -------

28 years

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20 years of BYTE

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I remember back in the soviet union there were a couple of good magazines for young people that had projects in them.I was too young to build any of them, and you'd have a hard time getting a blank PCB there anyway, but they had a primitive rover-like robot (with programmable modules based on the arrangement of electrical traces on a cartridge), an RC boat, etc. I'd love to get my hands on one of those. When I go back there (hopefully in a couple of years), I will be sure to photocopy some of the stuff. Nothing like "build 99 projects" of today. >> > >> >> It's no loss IMO. Byte hasn't been worth the paper it was printed on > >Agreed. I stopped reading Byte shortly after the last 'Ciarcia's Circuit >Cellar'. It's not that that was the only interesting article in it - many >of the programming articles were great as well. But all the good stuff >went at about the same time, and Byte became yet another ready-built >PC-clone mag. > >> for a looonnggg time. The same thing happened to Popular Electronics, >> another of good OLD magazines. > >Are there _any_ good electronics/computer mags left now (especially in >the UK)? Elektor used to be good, but recently it's all been >pre-programmed PLDs with no idea as to what's in them, controlled by >binary-only software for Microsoft OS's. No interest there for me... > >> >> Joe >> >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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IBM Techref's available?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I emailed IBM. they said they transferred the stuff to someplace called Greenleaf computers (I think, not sure). I didn't bother to pursue it. They will be happy to give you the phone #. >> Hi, >> >> Are technical references for IBM XT's / 286 machines avaialbe from IBM >> still? If so then I assume that they charge quite a bit of money for >> them! > >AFAIK, all are out of print, but IBM probably have some remaining stock >of most of them. I bought several manuals about a year ago. > >The XT Model 286 manual is unavailable. > >The others that you might need are : > >PC >XT and Portable PC >AT >AT suplement for the type 2 board >(those contain schematics of the motherboard and keyboard, BIOS sources, etc) > >Options and Adapters. 2 volumes covering just about every card for the PC >and XT, monitors, drives, etc. >O&A AT update (16 bit cards, serial/parallel adapter, etc) >Scientific O&A (GPIB, DAC, PGC, etc) > >PC-jr (PC-jr motherboard _and all option cards_ for it in one manual) > >I posted the forms numbers (which you need to get them from IBM) on this >list a few months back - it's probably in the archives somewhere... > >They're not cheap, but not too expensive IMHO. Figure on \pounds 50.00 >per volume. I was pleasantly supprised by the ammount of information that >I got. > >> Jules > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Byte Magazine RIP

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I don't know if everyone has heard, but the July issue of Byte will be the last issue. It's a sad day for the computer industry. While Byte has become primarily a Windows magazine in the past few years, they were still the closest thing to a general purpose magazine left, and the only non-specialized computer magazine that I still bought. The following C/Net article gives the details http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,22532,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years

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Tandy web page malarkey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Is there a socketed PLCC chip in the middle of the board? (the so-called <GIME chip). If so, it's a 3. Yes there is. <The disk controller is basically a WD1773 + support circuitry. And a ROM <containing the disk extensions to basic. Not trivial to build, but not <impossible. You might find a second hand one somewhere. The FDC is easy as I have 1793 and 8229(glue chip). The rom is a show stopper. I'll have to keep an eye open. Allison

28 years

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old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 29, 6:53, Joe wrote: > Cord wrote: > >I just picked up an older style laptop that I need some hlp on. It is > >a Toshiba T2200SX laptop. > >1) I need a battery for this unit. I have the power supply, but the > >battery with it won't charge. > Your chances of finding another battery are slim. Even if you find one > it will be old and probably won't last long. My suggestion is to take it > to one of the battery places that rebuild batteries and have them replace > the cells in your old battery. If you can take the battery pack apart (separate it into single cells) in such a way that it could be re-assembled, all is not lost. The usual problem with NiCds is that internal crystal growth makes short circuits; the battery will show virtually 0V. If you force a sufficiently high current through the cell, it will often remove the short. However, the current needs to be very high, and has to be of short duration to avoid other damage. The way I do it, is to charge a large electrolytic capacitor up to 20V - 30V, connect one side to one end of a cell with a short thick wire, and touch ("flash") the other side to the other end with another short thick wire. The spark is usually fairly dramatic, so it's best to touch the wire to the terminals and not the case (lest the arc burn through it), and use eye protection. Repeat as required until the cell shows some reasonable voltage. Then put the cell through a full-charge/deep-discharge/full-charge cycle. I've resurrected quite a few NiCds with my 24V bench PSU and a 50,000mfd 30V electrolytic. BTW, inside a lot of laptop batteries, you'll find a small metal box in series with the cells. Don't throw it away; it's a thermal cutout intended to prevent excessive current flow. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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IBM Techref's available?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi, Are technical references for IBM XT's / 286 machines avaialbe from IBM still? If so then I assume that they charge quite a bit of money for them! If you can't get them any longer, then has anyone scanned any of the information and stuck it on the 'net anywhere? (Schematics are one thing, I remember downloading lots of info on various things such as DMA controller specs etc. a few years ago, and theamount of conflicting information out there made it rather difficult to get anywhere!! :) ta Jules

28 years

2
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my first computer, game of "life"

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

I first discovered digital logic and TTL IC's about 1973, and wanted to build something not trivial with them. The project I chose was John Conway's game of "life" as described in Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games in "Scientific American" I ending using a 32x32 element grid using 2 (then expensive!) 2102 rams (No A or other suffix then) I would calculate one generation from one ram and write to the other. I used about a 60kHz clock and 74193 counters to generate the addresses. The clock went to a decade counter and the first 8 states generated +/- x and y clocks to visit the 8 neighbors of a given cell. If the cell was a "1", another counter was incremented, number of neighbors. The 9'th state was at the given cell. The rule was then used: Neighbors =2 and cell active, or Neighbors = 3, then the new cell was active, otherwise it was not. The 10'th clock wrote the cell to the new generation (the other ram). Thus 10 clock cycles were needed for each cell, or 10240 for each generation. This was much faster than a later 4MHz Z-80 program! I displayed the results on a 5 inch oscilloscope, using 555 timers with PNP transistor current sources to charge the timing capacitor, for x and y ramp or deflection waveforms. This was straight out of a National Semiconductor databook. The refresh rate was about 60Hz. The "load" signals for the 74193's was used to write data into locations from address switches. Finally 3 7490's and 7447's displayed the generation number on 7 segment displays. It was fun to watch the generations flash by. The total number of IC's was about 35 + 6 for the generation counter. -Dave

28 years

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

i live in the USA, but already have the PC mike

28 years

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 8:31 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >> oh well with my 5150 it has two FH IBM drives in i and they both seem to be >> dead, Ive replaced the controllor card check the dips, >> checked power output, it seems here in Austrlaia these drives are almost >> impossable to get a hold of...... > >I have schematics for these drives (in the IBM O&A TechRef) and the Tandy >instructions for aligning the single-sided version. So I think we can get >them working. > >You say they're 'dead'. How dead? Why you access them, does the motor >start. Does the spindle rotate? Does the head carriage move to track 0 >when you first boot up the machine (turn off, move the head towards the >spindle, turn on). Does the LED come on? > >Or do they seem to work, and go through all the motions, but give you >data errors? > >> >> >> >> > >-tony > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm I get nothing out of them, no motor spin up, no led, no nothing...................

28 years

2
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Coleco and Sensation

by allisonp＠world.std.com

This is one of countless reasons that I regard the ADAM as not much more <than a cruel joke ;) CP/M on a cassette based system? And one which <uses a non-standard cassette format (off-the-shelf tapes won't work)... <How many CP/M apps were produced in "Digital Data Pack" format? Any? It was an attempt to produce a system that was low cost but still have a block device (disk usually). The tapes were digital casette and was a standard format for the time. It was however an interesting machine. I'd love to find one and/or the prints for it. I'm interested in how they did the tape system. Allison

28 years

1
0
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RS-232 port with modem?

by archive＠navix.net

I have an old PC compatible computer and I also have a 14.4 Data/Fax modem that uses the RS-232 port with the cable. My question is: how can I get the two of them to work together. Can I use just a simple term program to log onto a Unix host? How do I tell the computer that I want it to check for the modem/phone line via the RS-232 port. My computer also has a 2400 baud modem that isn't in use. Thanks for any help! -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years

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old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??)

by archive＠navix.net

Hi: I just picked up an older style laptop that I need some hlp on. It is a Toshiba T2200SX laptop. It is a 386 I believe, 3.5" floppy drive, 80 something meg hard drive, black and white LCD VGA display running Windows 3.1. Here's what I am looking for, or at least some advice on where to direct this help request to. 1) I need a battery for this unit. I have the power supply, but the battery with it won't charge. The battery I have is made by Toshiba and is model # PA2404U. Please let me know if you have one of these or know where I could find one! 2) Modem. It has a 2400 baud modem with it. It is of the more modern style (I think) in that the modem is a small card that inserts in the side. It is labeled T24M - Modem - 2400 BPS - MNP5. On the back is PC22-T24M. Here's the problem... there is a small 'port' that supposedly is used for a special cable to connect the phone line to. It doesn'e have the cable for the modem to the phone line. I am interested in knowing where I may be able to find this special cable to be able to use this modem. Also curious to know if the model of laptop will handle new laptop modems. I know that many modern laptops use this type of modem (slide in card), and would be willing to just get a new modem if I can't find this special cable for this particular modem. 3) Additional memory: It has 2 meg of RAM internally. In addition, there is a 2 meg card, similar to the modem, that slides in on the opposite side of the laptop. It is labeled Enhance Memory Products, Inc., TMC02 2MB -- my question is: can I add additional memory... a larger card? Are newer laptop memory cards compatible with this computer Anyway help would be greatly appreciated. If you have some of the above items, please let me know and include the price you're willing to sell it for. Also, a pointer to a better place to take this request to (is there such a place? :-) would also be much appreciated! Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years

3
2
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Coleco and Sensation

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Could someone describe to me the Colecovision family entertainment system? It's a dual cassette deck with expansion ports, cartridge ports, a phone jack, and 9-pin ports. Processor? RAM? Also, I saw a Tandy Sensation (I think) system. Not quite classic, it's and MPC 1 machine, looks like a DECpc. Has anyone known it? Lastly, I saw an Apple //c setup guide. Why does it say only to use the computer propped up by the handle? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

5
5
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FW: FREE VAX3900!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Dang... it's ads like this that make me wish, sometimes, that I were a lot closer to the midwest.... Anyway... if you're in a better position than me, and want to give a good home to a darn good VAXen (definitely late-model), get in touch with this guy. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Message-ID: <356CD657.852FEBD4(a)sysman-inc.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:13:27 -0500 From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy(a)sysman-inc.com> Reply-To: levy(a)sysman-inc.com Organization: System Management Associates, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,misc.computers.forsale Subject: VAX 3900 Free for the taking Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.100.242.150 Lines: 24 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!chicago-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.dls.net!209.100.242.150 Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.os.vms:2601 comp.sys.dec:928 misc.computers.forsale:317 Available immediately: VAX 3900, 32Mb, no licenses. KDB50 Ethernet KLESI (2) RA90 (2) RA70 Emulex UC07 SCSI controller TU81+ Complete only. Removing any part diminishes the value of the rest, and I don't want to have to scrap it. 20 Miles north of Chicago. You pick it up or pay for shipping. Serious inquiries only. -- Mark E. Levy System Management Associates, Inc. OpenVMS, MacOS, Windows 95/NT, Networks levy(a)sysman-inc.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years

1
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Locking RL-02 Heads

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There's a little locking clip inside the drive assembly that holds the <heads in place mechanically. Just flip it over the end of the retracted <head assembly and tighten it with a screwdriver. that would be the early model RL02s. The later ones it was a plastic spring loaded arrangement that was pushed out of the way by installing the pack. Transport all of them without a pack installed. Allison

28 years

2
1
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PS/2 items FS/Trade

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have about half a dozen PS/2 model 55SX machines that I need to sell or trade. They're all in excellent working condition with hard drive, floppy drive, built in video/com/lpt/mouse ports. Can accept up to 16mb of ram and runs a 386SX-16 processor. These are tested and in good physical and working condition. Just add SIMMs, keyboard, mouse and monitor. Great replacement for a flaky unit or to add a machine for the kids. All have MS-DOS 6.2 on the hard drive. Reference/Setup disk included. Asking $30 each plus shipping. The Dallas realtime clock chip on the board or even the floppy drive are worth that alone. Trades of other IBM ISA, MCA or VLB equipment will be considered. I also have 55SX motherboards in great condition for $10 each plus shipping. Shipped in foam padded mailer with setup/reference disk. Just open your dead machine and replace the board. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

1
0
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old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??)

by bill.sheehan＠stoneweb.com

I'm now on my fourth set of batteries for Toby-San, my T1000. The latest set was purchased from 1-800-Batteries, a company that seems to have every size and style of laptop and camera battery ever dreamed of. You can find them on the web at http://www.800batteries.com. -- BIll Sheehan Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> on 05/29/98 02:53:59 AM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Re: old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??) At 12:59 AM 5/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi: > >I just picked up an older style laptop that I need some hlp on. It is >a Toshiba T2200SX laptop. It is a 386 I believe, 3.5" floppy drive, >80 something meg hard drive, black and white LCD VGA display running >Windows 3.1. Here's what I am looking for, or at least some advice on >where to direct this help request to. > >1) I need a battery for this unit. I have the power supply, but the >battery with it won't charge. The battery I have is made by Toshiba >and is model # PA2404U. Please let me know if you have one of these >or know where I could find one! Cord, Your chances of finding another battery are slim. Even if you find one it will be old and probably won't last long. My suggestion is to take it to one of the battery places that rebuild batteries and have them replace the cells in your old battery. There is a place in Sanford, Florida that I have used a lot and that I'm very happy with. Their name is TNR, I don't have their phone number handy but you can get it from directory info. They use good quality batteries so their batteries will usually last a lot longer than the original ones since the OEMs usually use the cheapest junk they can find. Joe

28 years

1
0
0 0

Locking RL-02 Heads

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Quick question, how does one make sure the heads of a RL-02 drive are locked? I'm supposed to be picking one up this weekend (mainly for the Q-Bus controller and diskpacks). I want to make sure I transport it correctly since I might need it for my PDP-11/44 (still don't know the state of it's drives. On another note, anyone have any recommendations on where to get some RAM boards for a /44? Once I have the packs that will be the only thing I'll need (assuming everything works). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years

2
1
0 0

Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > So, indeed, you're talking about a keyboard buffer, only intelligent > and on a much larger scale. Or multiprocessing. Maybe Tim is, but on reflection (no pun) I'm not. The terminal acts as a buffer for the data, not for the keyboard. The keyboard is used to make changes to the data in the buffer and initiate the transfer of the changed data back to the 3000. The keystrokes themselves don't get sent to the 3000, only the edited data. -Frank McConnell

28 years

1
0
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Looking for Osborne I or Executive

by jvaverysm＠sprintmail.com

I'm looking for an operational Osborne I or Executive CPM machine to operate or restore. If you know of one I would be interested. Thanks! Joe Avery jvaverysm(a)sprintmail.com

28 years

3
2
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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 1:58 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >At 02:40 PM 5/27/98 +1000, you wrote: >Desie, > > Let me know if you want some. There's plenty of them here in the trift >stores. I can buy the entire PC for about $5. If you want some drives and >are willing to pay the cost ($5) and shipping (?), I'll get some for you. > > Joe > > >> >>oh well with my 5150 it has two FH IBM drives in i and they both seem to be >>dead, Ive replaced the controllor card check the dips, >>checked power output, it seems here in Austrlaia these drives are almost >>impossable to get a hold of...... >> >> >> >> > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm where abouts do you live?? to ship from anywhere other than within Austrlaia would cost a small furtune considering the weight of a IBM PC

28 years

2
1
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Compaq Portable in OZ?????

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Adam Jenkins <adam(a)merlin.net.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 12:04 Subject: Re: Compaq Portable in OZ????? > >>anyone on this list in OZ have a original Compaq Portable they want to >>sell/trade or give away?? > >Are you still after one? What are you after generally? I might have a >lead on one, but I am inclined to keep my own unless it is for something >urgent. :) > >Adam. > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm Im looking for a original Compaq Portable the first one, (1981-1982) I have 2 x Compaq Portable IIs and I love them.............

28 years

1
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Coleco and Sensation

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-28 21:20:23 EDT, you write: << I believe it wants you to use the \\c propped up on the handle because it will air out better. They didn't have as good fans as they do now in those days. I'm not sure though. That computer is before my time (i'm only 12). I'll check in my \\c manual though. mike >> because the //c was compact and had more capabilities in it than the //e, i guess it runs much hotter so propping it up by the handle allows more air access for cooling. i never had a problem with it though. i thought the pivoting handle was just to tilt the keyboard for certain typists. david

28 years

1
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Fwd: Coleco and Sensation

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

I believe it wants you to use the \\c propped up on the handle because it will air out better. They didn't have as good fans as they do now in those days. I'm not sure though. That computer is before my time (i'm only 12). I'll check in my \\c manual though. mike

28 years

1
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Help identify this not-so-classic board

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I searched and came up blank! is that the part number or fru number? are you sure thats the board number, or just a number for one of the components? In a message dated 98-05-28 17:41:47 EDT, you write: << trying to find some info about an IBM ISA SCSI board which has the following part number etched onto it 75H8895. This group seems to have the most diverse resources of any I've seen so I figured I'd give it a try and hope someone's got some info. Any info on this not too classic board would be appreciated. >>

28 years

2
1
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Processing data in blocks

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > Good question. I have a couple of 150s and I have WS for the 150 but my > disks have bit rot :-( Last time I was in Sunnyvale, CA I found a pile of WordStar 3.24 distribution kits at Weird Stuff Warehouse. I payed (IIRC) $2 for the one I wagged off. There were several other copies. They're marked "CP/M-86 or MS-DOS" or somesuch only because it's not obvious from the documentation which version it is; the one I bought is for MS-DOS and I presume the remaining ones are as well. I picked up a copy of Desqview/X there, too. It's a good thing I don't live in Silicon Valley; Weird Stuff Warehouse would get all my money. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years

1
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

How would you tell a prototype from the conversion? thanks Kai -----Original Message----- From: KFergason [mailto:KFergason@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 8:19 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? I can verify this. We got 2 beta units to develop on, in the IIe case. I always wondered what happened to them. Kelly In a message dated 5/26/98 10:01:56 PM Central Daylight Time, photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes: > I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life > depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of > IIe cases. > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze >

28 years

3
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Processing data in blocks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

So, indeed, you're talking about a keyboard buffer, only intelligent and on a much larger scale. Or multiprocessing. >> Back when I asked about the HP 3000, someone mentioned that it >> processed data in blocks. What exactly does that mean? How does it >> work? >I think the comment you're talking about was directly related to >HP3000 full screen editors; these generally need a HP terminal >that's capable of block-mode operations. This means that >the terminal is capable of simple on-screen editing tasks by itself, >and transmits a bunch of changes to the computer only when the >computer needs to ask for the accumulated changes. > >This is very different than the mindset in the microcomputer and Unix >world, where it is expected that the main CPU will want to devote >attention to each and every keystroke typed by every user, and then >the main CPU will devote all its effort (for a little while) to >echoing this single character. This simply isn't the way >things are done on mainframes and "heavy-duty" mincomputer OS's. > >Tim. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
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Help identify this not-so-classic board

by pechter＠shell.monmouth.com

I'm trying to find some info about an IBM ISA SCSI board which has the following part number etched onto it 75H8895. This group seems to have the most diverse resources of any I've seen so I figured I'd give it a try and hope someone's got some info. Any info on this not too classic board would be appreciated. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

28 years

1
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SUN equipment (x-post)

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Pulled this from the web, and I know there are Sun users that might be interested in these. Email Pat direct if interested... ................................................................................................................................ Pat Stakem <stakem(a)loyola.edu> Columbia, Md - Wednesday, May 27, 1998 at 12:18:02 I have 5-10 spare Sun workstation video monitor cables (about 1 meter long, and 13w3 standard). also, 5-10 spare type 4 keyboards, with optical mice. email me if interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

1
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Tandy web page malarkey

by dastar＠wco.com

Check out Tandy's version of history from their web page: "1977 TRS-80 Model I Personal Computer introduced. (First mass-marketed personal computer. In contrast to build-it-yourself computers available at the time, the TRS-80 was fully-wired and tested. Sold at a breakthrough price of $599. More than 200,000 TRS-80 computers were sold from 1977 to 1981.)" Ok, let's conveniently forget about the Apple ][. This is the most blatant denial of reality and outright lie I've ever seen a company publicly endorse. "1980 TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer introduced. (First computer ever to feature five programs and a telephone modem built-in. Used by journalists throughout the world.)" First I question the year (I know it was later than 1980). This claim is dubious at best. Mostly its broad and irrelevant. It seems they're trying so hard to make this seem like a breakthrough (it was) that they forgot to mention the real reasons why. "1984 Tandy 1000 Personal Computer introduced. (First PC-compatible personal computer. Within one year, the Tandy 1000 became the best-selling PC-compatible computer.)" God, what a load of chicken turds. I think they missed this distinction by 3 years and umpteen other companies. I'd like to kick the guy who wrote all this crap in the nuts. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years

10
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Steve Wozniak home page

by stephen.j.gabaly＠lmco.com

For anyone that's interested Steve Wozniak has a home page at www.woz.org <http://www.woz.org> . He has a digital camera in his office which you can point and zoom to see what he is up too, just click on the wozcam button. His email address is also there, I have emailed him several times about questions I had on the early days of Apple, he responded quickly (few minutes). Generally if he can answer the question off the top of his head, he will, otherwise he will politely tell you he is too busy. I think I have used up my quota of questions for the year so perhaps someone on this discussion group can organized a question of the month so he won't get bombarded with a hundred questions and change his email address. Just a thought. steve

28 years

2
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Processing data in blocks

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At 10:42 5/28/98 -0700, Roger wrote: <>Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona <>could do any video attribute Wordstar ever dreamed of.... < <Nice keyboard, too. Visual 1050 had all the char modes and graphics as well. The keyboard is better than many. Allison

28 years

1
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Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Back when I asked about the HP 3000, someone mentioned that it > processed data in blocks. What exactly does that mean? How does it > work? Tim's answer got part of it. Here's some more of the picture, maybe in gorier detail than you wanted to know. Many HP terminals are somewhat intelligent and can be told (via escape sequence or strap setting) to operate in "block mode", where the terminal buffers data in its local display memory and lets the user do local editing of it there. There can also be protected and unprotected fields, which basically turn the display into a fill-in form where the user can type in the unprotected fields and not in the protected fields. Some keys (ENTER (not RETURN) and the function keys) will still initiate a transfer to the host computer. How that works is a collection of fiddly little details but I'm going to try to describe it in terms of the DC1/DC2/DC1 block-mode handshake. Once the form has been sent to the terminal by the application (which basically sends escape sequences and text to set up the block mode, the form, and the unprotected fields), the application starts a read. The terminal I/O system then sends a DC1 (control-Q) to the terminal so the terminal knows there's a read pending. When the user presses ENTER or a function key to tell the terminal to send the form, the terminal sends a DC2 (control-R) to the host as an indication that there's a block of data ready for transmission. The host does whatever it needs to do to get ready for the block (this was important in the days of the Series II/III which used a terminal controller that couldn't handle all 16 ports sending 2400 bps data at the same time) and then sends another DC1 as a go-ahead, and the terminal sends an escape sequence for the pressed key followed by the block of data (usually the data from the unprotected fields on the form, separated by field-separator (FS) characters, and finishing up with a record-separator (RS) character). The terminal won't send anything more 'til it sees another DC1 from the host. OK, well, that's about what you see on the wire if you stick a serial line analyzer in between the 3000 and a terminal, and watch as an application written using one of the more popular block-mode application subroutine libraries (VIEW aka V/3000 aka VPLUS/3000) is in use. Later 3000s have terminal controllers that can handle full speed on all ports, and they can use a simplified block-mode handshake (i.e. the 3000 sends the initial DC1, and the terminal just sends the block when the user presses ENTER or a function key). The goal of all this was, as Tim said, getting a rather slow HP3000 to run a surprisingly big bunch of terminals doing transactions against data on the 3000. The 3000 didn't have to do any work for the user until the user had the transaction edited on the screen, in particular it didn't have to respond to every user keystroke, and as the terminal didn't have anything better to do it could respond to the user's keystrokes right away. There were also some full-screen editors that relied on the terminal to buffer lines of text and let you do your editing in the terminal. Those I used tended to run in line block mode (vs. VIEW which I think used page block mode) where once the user pressed ENTER the host would home the cursor and start sending escape sequences ("<ESC>d" I think, followed by a DC1 once the read was pending) to get the terminal to send the current line 'til it got to the bottom. Feel free to ask questions about this if you want to know more. -Frank McConnell

28 years

3
2
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Processing data in blocks

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

From: Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> > HPWORD was actually a little more WYSIWYG than, say, Wordstar, because > the terminal actually had bold and italic faces and underlining > features. Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona could do any video attribute Wordstar every dreamed of: italics, underline, strikethrough, bold, etc. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years

2
1
0 0

VAX 785 Backplane Schematic

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Anyone have the printset describing the VAX 785 CPU backpanel? I'd be interested in a scan of it... -------

28 years

1
0
0 0

More stuff acquired

by jon＠techniche.com

Hi, I've not participated much since I joined this mail group a number of weeks back, so I thought I'd make myself heard. A few of you seem to be pretty familiar with HP equipment so maybe you can tell me what I have (or have not) here. I pick up a box of junk at the local recycler several weeks ago. It caught my eye because it has some microprocessor emulator pods. In the box were the following: Z8002 emulation pod, HP part # 64233A (says use with 64271A) Z80 emulation pod, HP part # 64252A (says use with 64251A) 6801/6803 pod, HP part # 64256A (says use with 64255A) also the following boards: 64300/66501 internal analysis bd 64154/66501 Static Ram board (only one of 4 rows has sockets installed) 64152/66501 Static Ram board (All 4 rows socketed and populated) [both of the above have 2147 memory chips] 64211/66501 680x Control board I called HP and asked what the pod normally connect to, just in case it was still down at the surplus store and I had overlooked it. HP says that they would normally be used with a "frame" (?) i.e. some sort of general purpose analyzer having a part number of 29000 or 29120 (these two number are from memory since I can't find my notes at the moment where I wrote down the two numbers. It was either 29000 or 59000 but I'm pretty sure it was 29000). I was attracted to the emualtion pods because they looked like they had never been used. All of the pins appeared to be straight and intact. There was protective foam one each pod. What can you guys tell me about these? I'm thinking that without the frame they are not very useful to me. Perhaps they're worth something in trade? Thanks, Jon

28 years

2
1
0 0

Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"D. Peschel" <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> writes: > I hope the invitation isn't directed at only one person. :) Nope. > One thing I realized from the exposure (and have since read about) is > that the local editing features are usually horribly limited, _and_ > they're impossible to extend unless you modify the hardware. What > kind of local editing do the HP terminals provide? (Any fancy cursor > movement keys, line editing, cut- and-paste, etc.?) I'm trying to get > a feeling for how well the HP editors stack up against more modern > ones. The line editor sounds pretty nice, actually. (I use vi -- > which is the same kind of full-screen line editor -- a lot. The > navigation commands are nice and quick.) For what passes for full-screen editing, the display is pretty much something you can type on. Cursor movements available are up, down, left, right, page up, page down, home (top-of-buffer), and end-of-buffer. Typing defaults to type-over but there is an insert-char mode that you can turn on and off from the keyboard. If you do this, wrapping is kind of simple (it will open up a new next-line and wrap characters onto that as they go past the right margin). Also you can delete characters from the keyboard (but this does not un-wrap wrapped characters). It's also possible to delete lines and add blank lines, and clear to end-of-display. Not cut-and-paste, though; well, if you can use the memory lock feature of the terminal you might be able to do it but some of the full-screen editors used it in a way such that if you tried to use it you would screw things up and lose work. Things are somewhat different if protected fields are set up; those will limit character insertion and deletion. > I mentioned reading... there are stories about people trying to > combine full-screen interactive editing with local terminal editing, > and finding that the two don't mix. The people usually bit the > bullet, invested in the extra hardware, and gave the workload back to > the CPU. I think there was an enhanced version of TECO at Stanford > that falls into this category. I know that Emacs on MULTICS was > developed like that. Mind pointing me to some of those stories. HP did something odd in the early-mid 1980s: HPWORD. This was a word processing system for the HP3000 that used 2626W (and later, 2628A and HP150) terminals as intelligent front-ends. When you first started HPWORD after turning the terminal on, it would spend about 10 minutes downloading code to the terminal, and then the downloaded code ran the interface and the communications link back to the HPWORD process on the 3000. I was told at the time that the terminal handled processing up to the paragraph level, and got the 3000 to do anything larger. HPWORD was actually a little more WYSIWYG than, say, Wordstar, because the terminal actually had bold and italic faces and underlining features. And it was nifty because you could queue up a print job >from one terminal to a printer connected to another HPWORD terminal; the backing HPWORDs running on the 3000 would talk to each other and get the document printed. Oh, and someone could be typing on the terminal that had the printer connected. All in all, it was a cheaper solution than PCs in the 1983-1984 time frame when we bought into it -- we didn't have to buy a printer for every workstation, and we didn't have to pick a PC LAN with lots of funny cabling. > Personally, I found the local editing completely inadequate for > dealing with the multicolumn file lists and pop-up windows the AS/400 > kept putting onscreen. Using only arrow keys to move the cursor to > precise places all over the screen was a real chore. The designs of > input and display just didn't match ewll. Yeah, and back then I used to switch between editors depending on the job at hand. Some things just work better with good old EDIT/3000, and even for editing code I liked QUAD. Later when I went to work at Wollongong I discovered Voodoo on the 3000 there and got kind of used to it; it tries to be vi-like but the inherent inability of the 3000's terminal I/O to accept characters without a pending read (and to do anything else while there is a pending read) really got in its way sometimes. Now I just use Emacs (though not on the 3000), and quite frankly I do think it works better. -Frank McConnell

28 years

1
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IBM SYSTEM 36 IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA NEEDS LOVING HOME

by Marty＠itgonline.com

An IBM System 36 (Type 5336 or Type 5360 depending on whom you speak to) is available free in Richmond, Virginia at CW Wright Construction Company. Contact Vaughn Atkinson or Bob Jennings @ 804-768-1054 for more details. Marty

28 years

1
0
0 0

DEC Rainbow available in Cambridge UK

by kevan＠heydon.org

Hi, I have a DEC Rainbow that I want to pass onto another collector. I live in Cambridge UK, and while I can deliver for a short distance collection would be the best as there are quite a few manuals that go with it. Drop me an email if you are interested -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/

28 years

2
1
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