- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

><word. I do not know if ODS-1 (RSX FILES-11) or the RSTS filesystems ><precede RT-11, but if I had to guess, I would say yes. IIRC, both use ><9.3. > >Did you mean 8.3? RT-11, RSTS and RSX-11 were 8.3 as was early VMS and >unice. I can't speak for RSTS and RSX-11, but I _know_ early VMS was 9.3; that is, as long as VMS 3.4 is counted as early. RT-11 is 6.3; since you can cram three characters into a word using Radix-50, a filename in RT-11 takes three words. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Files as files

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<word. I do not know if ODS-1 (RSX FILES-11) or the RSTS filesystems <precede RT-11, but if I had to guess, I would say yes. IIRC, both use <9.3. Did you mean 8.3? RT-11, RSTS and RSX-11 were 8.3 as was early VMS and unice. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Executor is just like all other "mostly compatible" things. It works perfectly with everything but that which you want it to run. I've run Lemmings, Netscape (w/ screwed up colors), and that's about it. Nothing much will really run, and you can be assured that you won't be able to install a program because there is no system folder (the least of the install problems; the most is missing system calls). >problems with sound but seems to work just fine on my machine. unfortunately, >im having some problems trying to unstuff mac files from disk, evidently >because of the mac's forked files. I was wondering what the point was of the resource fork, who invented it, how it's better than a simple bunch of characters, and why they didn't think that 20 years later we'd be ripping our hair out because of it... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

old laptop BIOS???

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:06 PM 6/9/98 +0000, you wrote: > >> Does anyone know how to access the BIOS of an old Toshiba 2200sx >> laptop? It is Pheonix, but I can't tell what version, etc., as it >That's makes this bit harder because these programs are not that easy >to get besides the Toshiba's website. Which is a black mark against I've found Toshiba's on-line support for their older machines to be excellent; I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that the setup pgm was available on their web site. Definitely worth checking out. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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IBM 700 Laptop Significance?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-10 05:56:42 EDT, you write: << > Was this one of the ones from about '92? If it's the one I'm thinking of, > it would be the first with the 'pencil' pointer in the keyboard. For all I > know, the first built in pointer (I'd not seen any prior to this). Of > course I really remember it running AIX and OS/2 at the same time (I hate > AIX, but sure wish they had released that product). >> the thinkpad 700 and 720 were both ps2 style laptops from ibm, but they werent the first ones. i believe the thinkpad 300 predated it. there was also the N40 and L40 ibm laptops, but they were not thinkpads. all thinkpads have used the trackpoint. david

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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IBM 700 Laptop Significance?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

I picked up a copy of Mobile Computing and the editorial starts off by mentioning several portable computers that were significant in the history of mobile computing. Included in the list was the Model 100 (of course) and the IBM 700 (I forget the others.) The question I have is what was significant about the IBM 700? If it's the I think it is, it had an external fdd, but it certainly wasn't the first (heck, the M100 had that.) So, does anyone know what the ed might have been talking about? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

3
3
0 0

Clueless Field Service

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Was the second episode also in Antarctica? Wouldn't there be a reason why the first chip fried? I mean chips don't just evaporate their casings! >> > I add to this tricky problems: >> >> - Bent pin on VGA monitor plug >> > >At one job, I want back to the stock room to find three monitors >that were tagged "BAD (RED|GREEN) GUN". One was repairable by >straightening out the bent pin. The other two were too crimped >and broke off. Fortunately, we had a pile of (genuinely) dead >ones that could be stripped for the cables. This was in Antarctica. >Couldn't exactly send out for spares (until sunrise). > >At that same place, the other techs ooh'ed and aah'ed when I >replaced a surface mount chip that drove the parallel port >on a Dell 316sx. (When I went to that service call, after half- >an-hour of debugging the machine (which still booted and ran), >the customer commented, "maybe it won't print because of all the >smoke that was coming out of it." I thought he was joking at >first. I mean, wouldn't you mention _that_ in the first five >minutes of describing the problem? Upon closer examination, >I could see the hole in the package. New chip, no problem.) > >-ethan > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

4
5
0 0

THANKS!!!

by archive＠navix.net

This message is to the many, many people that responded with their help for two questions I had posted earlier. One was a questions about a PC speaker sound driver for W3.1, and the other was a question about setting up the BIOS on my T2200sx laptop. The response was overwhelming, and I have been e-mailed three different sound drivers, and got two different successful ways to setup my BIOS!!! Thank you all very much, and I apologize to those it doesn't concern, but I just wanted to reiterate that this list is full of help for those that don't know all the answers! :-) Sincerely, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Clueless Field Service

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:15 PM 6/9/98 PDT, you wrote: >> - Bent pin on VGA monitor plug > >At one job, I want back to the stock room to find three monitors >that were tagged "BAD (RED|GREEN) GUN". One was repairable by >straightening out the bent pin. The other two were too crimped >and broke off. Fortunately, we had a pile of (genuinely) dead At a user group meeting last Saturday, I showed up to find that the monitor I had brought had a bent pin. It promptly broke off when I tried to straighten it. So I pulled one of those hotel sewing kits out of the car and one of the other guys slipped a needle into the hollow pin, snipped to length, and it worked fine for the whole meeting (and probably is still working fine, only he took it home to replace the connector.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:25 PM 6/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Outbound > >Anybody have any of these? Any experience with them. I would love some >further information. I have an Outbound. Fantastic machine. The pointing device alone is worth getting the computer for. (Imagine a pencil tucked up against the bottom edge of your keyboard. Roll it towards the screen and away to move the cursor up and down. Slide it left and right to move the cursor left and right. Wonderful!) Unfortunately, mine has a problem with the screen; if anyone has any spare parts, or knows anything about them, I'd love to hear >from you! (I'd really like to put this machine to use!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:38 AM 6/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >> is given in edition 1, as oppose to just saying they exist. I'd love to >> get a list of old Mac clones. A (very!) non-portable Mac "Clone" that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the Dash '030 from (iirc) 68000 systems. It's an actual Mac II-type motherboard in a huge server case. Ports were accessable on the top, and has about 6 or 7 drive bays up front. The front covers the drives and can be locked closed. Huge P/S, with filter on the back. Very serious systems. I've got two, actually. (Someday, Real Soon Now, I'll get one of 'em set up as a server for Rachel's classroom.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Spotted FS: CRAY Y-MP/EL94 Model 250

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

Anybody wanna go Dutch? ;-) >Path: news.inetnebr.com!newsfeed.inetnebr.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!news-xfer.netaxs.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!novia!news.arc.nasa.gov!tulane.edu!not-for-mail >From: "Rich Hart" <Rich.Hart(a)tulane.edu> >Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.other.systems >Subject: FS: CRAY Y-MP/EL94 Model 250 >Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 15:38:32 -0500 >Organization: Tulane University >Lines: 17 >Message-ID: <6lk6g9$di6$1(a)rs10.tcs.tulane.edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: knochen.bmen.tulane.edu >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) >Xref: news.inetnebr.com misc.forsale.computers.other.systems:37566 > >For sale: CRAY Y-MP/EL 94 Model 250 computer, dual processors, 256 MBytes RAM, >21 G-bytes disk, DDS-2 DAT. > >Purchased in summer 1994 for $100,000. Currently maintained on service >contract, with UNICOS installed. > >Will consider offers of $15,000 or more (plus you pay shipping)? Please e-mail, >if interested. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Richard T. Hart, Ph.D. e-mail: Rich.Hart(a)tulane.edu >Professor and Chair phone: (504)865-5889 >Department of Biomedical Engineering fax: (504)862-8779 >Boggs Center, Suite 500 http://www.bmen.tulane.edu/ >Tulane University >New Orleans, Louisiana 70118 > -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Help on Grid Laptop

by manney＠lrbcg.com

I have a Grid 386 SX laptop which will not boot from a floppy (although the floppy does work.) It's got a Phoenix BIOS, although the usual Ctrl-Alt-Esc and Ctrl-Alt-S don't bring up a setup program. Was there a setup program? How do I get into it? Thanks, manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

TRS-80 video synch chaos

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Characters lean to the right, and the display moves all over the screen. <Usually the motion is quickly to the left while also moving upward, thoug <sometimes it stabalizes and just moves upward. < <Is there an adjustment to control this somewhere? Yes in or on the monitor. The system board video is clocked off the system crystal and stable. There are two adjustments for H&V position but they aren't likely the problem. The common problem is the monitor either the 4n25 opto isolator in the interface or more common video problems that tubes incur. Allison

28 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

T2200sx setup bios problem

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

While holding down the Esc key turn the machine and setup routine will come up.

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-09 13:44:45 EDT, Paul E. Coad put forth: << ARDI has a mac emulator (Executor). From their web page: >> yes, my brother gave me a cd with something called executor2 and that's what it is; a mac emulator. it doesnt support anything over system7 and has certain problems with sound but seems to work just fine on my machine. unfortunately, im having some problems trying to unstuff mac files from disk, evidently because of the mac's forked files. david

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

old sound driver?

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I remember a program, actually a sound driver, that was written for >computers without sound cards. I think it was intended for Windows >3.1 or something like that to allow simple .wav files to be played >--- in lue of a sound card -- simply used the internal pc speaker. > Go to http://sunsite.unc.edu/~boutell/faq/winsound.htm Ignore the stuff about Mosaic. -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Clueless Field Service

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 6/8/98 8:21:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maxeskin(a)hotmail.com writes: << A few months ago, PC World did a similar thing, only they made real hardware problems. Cutting the IDE cable on some machines, and rearranging RAM in others (so the SIMMS were no longer paired). Noone solved this. Better yet, the next issue, they published a letter saying that these were clearly artificial problems, and I quote, "IDE cables just don't fail". The guy said that a tech would never think to look at it. >> yes, someone at work told me about it and i just had to read it myself. it was amazing to say the least, but not really surprising. I work at a help desk and i've talked with both end users and these servicers and ive seen all types. some servicers will condemn a bad system board simply because they dont have the jumpers set so it can post! ive also noticed most servicers just swap parts until it works and most dont even seem to check it out before they give it back to the customer. either A+ certification is bogus, or every servicer needs it. david

28 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

PDP11/34 Being Retired and Scrapped

by jrice＠texoma.net

A plant at which I work is retiring a PDP11/34 and two Industrial I/O racks later this month. This machine has at least two sets of spare boards and even a spare hard drive as well as a complete set of manuals. It has been under a DEC service contract and has been running 24/7 for the last 20 years. After I transfer control of the furnaces to AB PLC's later this month, the DEC has been promised to a scrap yard in the Dallas area. If I can pry it away from the scrapper grasp, would anyone want it. I'm not into mini's so I don't want it, but I hate to see it get recycled for the metal. Also, I know where a HP 3000 can be picked up for probably under a $100. It has a hard drive, at least a med of ram, a 9 track tape drive (requires 3ph 208v), 10-12 HP2392 (as I recall) terminals, all of the cables, boards, expanders, a modem and was running when removed. If anyone is intrested, let me know and I'll pass your email adress to this guy. James

28 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

Wang PC-002 ??

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have a Wang PC-001. It is about half the width, almost 50% higher and 25% longer than the original IBM PC (if memory serves me right.. I'll confirm these dimensions tonight). It has a 5 1/4" half height 20 MB hard drive, presumeably a Seagate ST-220 although I've never popped the cover. Floppy drives I'll check tonight as well, I seem to remember one 5 1/4" half height. The cards in the rear are mounted horizontally as well. One interesting part of this pc is that the monitor has a steel mounting bracket (on one end it holds the monitor, on the other it has a clamp for the edge of a desk) which is angled at 45 degrees so the monitor can be elevated above the user's desk to free a desk of all but the keyboard (with the system unit on the floor). Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Wang PC-002 ?? Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 6/9/98 2:26 PM Greetings, I saw a very large Wang box at a thrift store yesterday, I *think* the little sticker on it said "PC-002". I didn't see the keyboard, but I didn't look. The machine was really big, I think about twice the height of an old IBM-PC and about the same width. It was longer than it was wide. It had two full-height 5.25" floppy drives. >From the back it looked like it had several large horizontally-mounted cards inside, including one with two coaxial cable connectors and another with two female DIN connectors. I would have paid close attention to it had my arms not already been full. I didn't see the keyboard, but it was probably stacked up in the pile with all the normal PC crap keyboards. If I am to go back for it, I'll have to take the car as I doubt I'd be able to survive the walk to the bus while trying to carry that thing. Does anyone know what this thing is? Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jun09.142634.1767.45789; Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:26:35 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA07364; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:18:43 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA72000 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:18:33 -0700 Received: from alcor.concordia.ca (ds_spenc(a)alcor.Concordia.CA [132.205.7.51]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id LAA15422 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:18:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (ds_spenc@localhost) by alcor.concordia.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17867 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980609140824.16486B-100000(a)alcor.concordia.ca> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Doug Spence <ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Wang PC-002 ?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

JCPenney Video Sports??

by archive＠navix.net

Does any of you have any details on the JC Penney Video Sports pong-type console system? I just picked one up, and am curious for more details on the unit, such as production numbers, current rarity (or lack thereof), and other interesting things about it.... if there are any. Are these things as common as a house-fly? Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years, 2 months

2
2
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

I'm reading _Build Your Own Macintosh and Save a Bundle_ and it has an interesting reference to early Mac clones. The book states: "The same Apple Macintosh Powerbooks that legitimized the whole Macintosh portable area have spelled the death knell for most other third-party Macintosh portable builders who cannot compete with Apple's overwhelming manufacturing economies of scale. While Outbound continues to flourish-thanks to a wisely forged legal agreement and clever positioning of their Macintosh portable models versus the Apple Powerbooks-I question their long-term staying power. Most other third-party Macintosh portable vendors have either gone out of business entirely or have quietly dropped their portable offerings." Does anybody know anything about these "thrid-party Macintoshes?" I'm familiar with the Outbound computers, I have never even heard of any other early Mac clones. Any info? Thanks, Tom Owad

28 years, 2 months

9
11
0 0

Wang PC-002 ??

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

PS I think there is a Wang keyboard there too. Let me know what kind of connector the PC-002 uses and I'll see if this is the same. Joe

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Wang PC-002 ??

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:18 PM 6/9/98 -0400, Doug wrote: > >Greetings, > >> >Does anyone know what this thing is? > > No, but there's a bunch of manuals for a Wang PC in a trift store here. Let me know if you want them. I'll check the model number on them the next time I'm there. Joe

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Clueless Field Service

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

At 10:36 PM 6/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >Remember: Good, Fast, Cheap pick any two. Here in the USA the cost to >repair often exceeds value on unit, of comes very close to it. A new >boom box 125$, an hour of service time is typically 35-50$ plus parts >(usually a subassembly). If the set is more than x many years old the >feature of a new one and the cost to repair... In some places where >goods are scarce or expensive that level of waste can't exist. ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ You know, I've heard of this. A friend of mine was visiting a customer in Serbia (part of the former Yugoslavia), and he was totally amazed that technicians there were repairing "throw away" modules from the motorola "MX" portable UHF radios. They used home-made tools, and reverse-engineered schematics (the exact contents of these modules was supposed to be a secret). Clever, these eastern europeans . . . . > >I've gotten some good equipment for this reason. I also have some old >equipment because I could fix it real cheap. My first 11/23 was made >from failed FS spares returns that were 'shot to the chip level. That >includes the RL02 I got on a bet. It was mine of I could fix it, it had >been totally taken appart by several people that couldn't fix it... >problem was a bad crimp on a spade lug to the motor start cap. It's >still running and I've never used a alignment pack that one of the >people that took it apart said it would need despite the heads never >being desturbed. > >Then again I can solder too. > >Allison > > > >

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

old laptop BIOS???

by archive＠navix.net

Does anyone know how to access the BIOS of an old Toshiba 2200sx laptop? It is Pheonix, but I can't tell what version, etc., as it flashes on screen very fast. I need to set up the COM ports of this thing and can't seem to figure it out. Any help would be greatly appreciated! CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 8:35 Subject: Re: Early Mac Clones >> >> bit hard getting a mac into a pc case though, remember that macs have all >> the connectors on board, > >Why do all computer owners forget about tools other than screwdrivers ? > >The above problem can be solved either by drilling/cutting the PC case to >allow plugs to fit into the sockets on the Mac logic board, or by making >up extension cables between connectors on the case and those on the logic >board. > >> >> desie > >-tony > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm I know, Ive done it before, the back panel is not a pretty site afterwoods.............

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

old sound driver?

by archive＠navix.net

I remember a program, actually a sound driver, that was written for computers without sound cards. I think it was intended for Windows 3.1 or something like that to allow simple .wav files to be played --- in lue of a sound card -- simply used the internal pc speaker. If you have any information on something like this, could you respond to me via private e-mail? Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Clueless Field Service

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<rearranging RAM in others (so the SIMMS were no longer paired). Noone <solved this. Better yet, the next issue, they published a letter <saying that these were clearly artificial problems, and I quote, <"IDE cables just don't fail". The guy said that a tech would never <think to look at it. Poor, while unlikely the obvious is the problem. <BTW, do you train service techs? Sometimes if they needed someone in my specialty on short call. More often the trainers were part of my product development team and I was managing technology transfer and strategy for repair. I was tasked mostly with developing the service process/plan. Remember: Good, Fast, Cheap pick any two. Here in the USA the cost to repair often exceeds value on unit, of comes very close to it. A new boom box 125$, an hour of service time is typically 35-50$ plus parts (usually a subassembly). If the set is more than x many years old the feature of a new one and the cost to repair... In some places where goods are scarce or expensive that level of waste can't exist. I've gotten some good equipment for this reason. I also have some old equipment because I could fix it real cheap. My first 11/23 was made >from failed FS spares returns that were 'shot to the chip level. That includes the RL02 I got on a bet. It was mine of I could fix it, it had been totally taken appart by several people that couldn't fix it... problem was a bad crimp on a spade lug to the motor start cap. It's still running and I've never used a alignment pack that one of the people that took it apart said it would need despite the heads never being desturbed. Then again I can solder too. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Give me a person who likes and works with machines and understands <block diagrams, transmission lines, and power and servo subsystems <and he/she'll beat the hell out of the paper wonders any time. That says it all. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Wang PC-002 ??

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Greetings, I saw a very large Wang box at a thrift store yesterday, I *think* the little sticker on it said "PC-002". I didn't see the keyboard, but I didn't look. The machine was really big, I think about twice the height of an old IBM-PC and about the same width. It was longer than it was wide. It had two full-height 5.25" floppy drives.

28 years, 2 months

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Early Mac Clones

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tom Owad <tomowad(a)earthlink.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 6:09 Subject: Re: Early Mac Clones >>I made a timely find today of the first edition of _Build Your Own >>Macintosh and Save a Bundle_. In Chapter 2 it has a price comparison >>between the clone "Cat" Mac and the real Mac. The computers it lists are: >> >>Cat Mac SE >>Cat Mac SE 30 >>Cat Mac II >>Cat Mac IIfx >>Cat Mac IIcx >>Cat Mac IIci > >I was referring to the actual clones. I'm not sure where it is in your >book, but in my 2nd edition, if you look at Chapter 11, Cat Mac builder >alternatives, you will see mention of the Mac clones Zane listed. > >Tom Owad > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm So it seems that no one has been able to reverse engineer Mac roms? Is it just that no one cares or is Apples legal department much tighter than IBMs

28 years, 2 months

2
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Clueless Field Service

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

At 09:59 PM 6/8/98 -0500, Allison wrote: >I earned my keep fixing commercial VHF and UHF radios which from call to >call could be dynamotor and tubes or the lastest IC and solid state >usually no prints and under time pressure. It paid for college. > >FYI I was at DEC from 83->93 CSSE ML0 Printing systems along with >Pattenden, Howard, Preece and Paul Nelsons merry crew. > > >Allison > > > I know this isn't a 'vintage radio' list, but . . . So, were you in the Motorola camp (Twin-V, T-Power, Motrac, Motran) or were you GE (Prog Line, TPL, Mastr? Or possibly one of the few in the RCA arena (CarFone, SuperCarfone, etc.)? I was Motorola, in the Mid 80's myself . . . Jeff

28 years, 2 months

1
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Homebrew computer

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm Some of you guys might find this quite interesting............. http://www.users.interport.net/~zebra/ts2/index.html

28 years, 2 months

1
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Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I make things less original in one way, but easier to spot as well. I put <the replacement chip in a socket (a good turned-pin socket). IMHO a board <of TTL with one odd chip in a socket that looks to have been <hand-soldered is likely to suggest that the chip has been replaced at <some point, even if the notes documenting the repair are missing. I'm one to both restore and modify. I ahve two CCS s100 systems one is stock and the other is in the proces of recieving some mods like a IDE adaptor. Why? The second is sans hard disk and for what I do it would be a nice box with a hard disk as it's small. it's also reversable as the front pannel that will also be modified will really be a new one and not the original one. If I had a PDP-8 and no disks I'd likely make a IO interface for a modern drive becuase PDP-8s are easy to hack that way and it's also reversable. The real trick would be using whatever micros so that the new disk interfaced and behaved like an older one so I could run old code as is. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
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Early Mac Clones

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I read about a multitasking kernel for the Microchip PIC microcontroller. <I think it used the counter/timer as a heartbeat, and could also do task <switched on the port change-of-state interrupt. No idea how big it is, <but I guess it's pretty small. It can be done on most CPUs no matter how small. Dynamic multitasking like Unix or VMS does is far more complex. The basic principles are the same. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
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Clueless Field Service

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I watched them swap memory, power supply, motherboard, hard disk controll <and such for an hour. LN01 training, I goosed the trainer that I could create a fault he couldn't find in excange for one. I found mine in and he was still going later. the bug, lead pulled off the fuse holder in the main PSU. I earned my keep fixing commercial VHF and UHF radios which from call to call could be dynamotor and tubes or the lastest IC and solid state usually no prints and under time pressure. It paid for college. FYI I was at DEC from 83->93 CSSE ML0 Printing systems along with Pattenden, Howard, Preece and Paul Nelsons merry crew. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<OK, I'll give you that it's possible. But it would be very slow (TeX <contains a lot of routines that are executed when it sees keywords in <the input file, so you'd be for ever swapping things in), and I doubt it <would be practical on a floppy-disk only system. Considering the size of the data file and the DVI result... floppy? Nope. Hard disk or large ram disk(1mb better). Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Packing RL02's

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Bit of a different note here. I've got someone that is interested in shipping me some RL02 packs for my systems, but is concerned about packing. Does anyone have any advice on the subject.

28 years, 2 months

3
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Final Xerox Star demo

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

Well if they arent keeping it, it should go to a museum like the one at Boston..... One question though, wasent the Xerox 820 basically the same as the Alto? -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 8:53 Subject: Re: Final Xerox Star demo > > > > >What processor did it use? >Also, what will be done to the machine after the "last run"? >>On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Larry Groebe wrote: >> >>> >Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be >videotapes >>> >available? >>> > >>> >thanks >>> > >>> >Kai >>> > >>> >-----Original Message----- >>> >From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >>> >Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM >>> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >>> >Subject: Final Xerox Star demo >>> > >>> > >>> >>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox >Star >>> >>workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >>> >>demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't >miss >>> >>this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever >taken in >>> >>the history of computing and user interface design. >>> >>> >>> Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a >Star >>> emulator? How fast could those things have been? >> >>Not terribly. IIRC, there was a discernable lag between keystroke and >>the appearance of the character on the monitor screen! >> >> - don >>> --Larry >>> >> >> donm(a)cts.com >>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >> Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives >> Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society >> Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. >> Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 >>*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* >> see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj >> visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm >> with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm >> >> >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >

28 years, 2 months

9
25
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Clueless Field Service

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

A few months ago, PC World did a similar thing, only they made real hardware problems. Cutting the IDE cable on some machines, and rearranging RAM in others (so the SIMMS were no longer paired). Noone solved this. Better yet, the next issue, they published a letter saying that these were clearly artificial problems, and I quote, "IDE cables just don't fail". The guy said that a tech would never think to look at it. BTW, do you train service techs? >> >> Allison >> >> > >Actually I agree with you. I put the following problem in front of some >techs at TRW who did dos PC's as part of some in-house training. > >I wrote a program that did a cold boot. I attached it to the >ANSI.SYS driver. I gave this PC to them to fix. > >I watched them swap memory, power supply, motherboard, hard disk controller >and such for an hour. > >After they got tired... I closed the floppy door an a write protected >MS-DOS 3.3 floppy and it booted. > >They never once looked at a software problem. I guess doing mini systems >taught me something. > >Bill > >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | >| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | >| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Early Mac Clones

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I have one--in pieces. I don't know if it works but I got it all >disassembled with cables hanging out of it. A neat unit. Hopefully I'll >find a complete one some day, or get this one working. There were not Mac >ROMs in it by the way. I paid $5. Do you mean they were cloned or just weren't any there? >What specifically did you want to know? Anything not already mentioned. The Outbound I've read about, but the other clones are entirely new to me. Tom Owad

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<YEs, but you need to keep quite a bit of stuff in memory. I think perhap <32K of data memory. I'd like to see anybody fit all of TeX82 into the <other 32K that's common on a CP/M system. Overlays and other sectioning techniques. Also a good portion 32k data area can be farmed to disk files. 64k space can be tough but people ahve done bigger things in smaller machines. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Amazing

by red＠bears.org

Microsoft NT Server 4.0 ships with GORILLA.BAS Completely bizarre. Any guesses why? I know it's not really classic as I'm fairly sure GORILLA.BAS didn't ship with MS-DOS until version 4 or 5. Still. Weird. ok r.

28 years, 2 months

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680x0's, Towers, & Serendipity

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The tower actually *boots* from the tape during install! Is that <> crazy or what? < <What's strange about that? My old Zilog S8000 (Z8001 processor) does the <same. And most minis can boot from their tape drvies. It's a standard way <boot real machines. Bigtime PDP-11s (rsts, RSX-11 and even RT on tape), vaxen all can. I've booted CPM from paper tape! Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
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Wire Recorder

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>This is not about computers, but it's vintage tech so it's almost on topic... > >Just picked up a very cool miniature battery operated wire recorder and I >need to find out what sort of battery it originally used - or at least to >find out what voltage it takes so I can try it out. Also would like to find >out more about it - date, original cost, etc. > >It's a Minifon Special, made by Protona (Hamburg, Ger.). The battery >compartment measures 1.25 x 3.5 inches, with a flat, brass spring contact >at either end. > >It's a beautiful little machine, in mint condition, complete with fitted >pigskin case. Even the original spool of hair-thin wire is unbroken. >Outside dimensions are 4 x 6.5 x 1.25 inches and it's finished in a sort of >goldish-cream textured lacquer. There are two din sockets on the front, one >with three pins for the mike (included), and another, unmarked, with nine >pins. > >Anybody know anything about this little gem? Surely someone on the list >goes back far enough to have seen one of these... > >R. > Ahh yes, the Minifon. Yes, it's off-topic, but it is/was indeed a cool piece of technology. German from the early 1950s. Wire recording had all but died out, but this machine was smaller than any TAPE recorder, so there was a niche market. Yes, it was used by spies, law enforcement, and such. (There was a version of the microphone built to look and be worn like a wristwatch!) It used subminature tubes 1 1/2 inches long. If you find a 1953 Allied radio catalog you'll find it listed for sale there for $289.50. A transistorized version of this wire recorder was being built after 1960! There's some info on this and about a zillion tape recorders from the 1950s and 60s in a book called "Evolution of the Audio Recorder" by Phil Van Praag. A book I thought I'd never see written - I guess it took an old audio technician to write it. --Larry (Who, in an attempt to drag this back on topic, is trying to envision a wire-recording storage device for a computer. Lousy tracks per inch.)

28 years, 2 months

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off topic.....

by poesie＠geocities.com

I found a compaq vocalyst keyboard today, has 4x5 box type plug... _________ o o o o o o o o o x x x x x x x x x x x --------- something like that, w/ the x's as pins. has built in speaker, mic and ext speaker jack, and PS/2 mouse port on keyboard... any idea what this thing is? or what it was for? i realize that it's not that old, but my interest is too piqued to let it ride.

28 years, 2 months

1
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"Computer Hobbyist" + Homebrew computers

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Jon Healey wrote: > >> After a fair amount of effort on my part, I found and obtained a >> copy of the July 1974, Radio-Electronics mag that has the cover >> story "Build the Mark-8, your personal minicomputer". I was >> less than delighted to find that in this instance, R-E left out >> most of the construction details (including any skematics). >> They have an offer on the second page of the article where >> you should order the kit with circuit board patterns, and >> the rest of the details. The article includes some theory of >> ops, a parts list and a few photos. > > >Actually... about a year ago as part of my efforts to re-create a >'Mark-8', I contacted Gernback Publications and was able (with suitable >begging and pleading) to get them to loan me the last existing masters for >the article series AND the construction package. > >>snip > >If anyone would like a copy of this document set, drop me a note. I'd >suggest that to avoid generation loss in copying the docs yet again you >consider sending along a blank CD-R disc with a SASE for its return, and >I'll provide you with the scanned (TIFF) files. (no charge) It's WAY too >big for floppies! > >If you require printed copies, it would be just the cost of printing and >postage. > >(...and if you make a new set of PC boards, I want one too!) B^} > >-jim OK, I just got back in town. Were you deluged? What's your address? I'd be happy to send you a blank CD if you'll make me a set. --Larry Groebe --Dallas TX

28 years, 2 months

1
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680x0's, Towers, & Serendipity was:Stupid lusers...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Anyways, I also have a 400 series Tower (as mentioned in the exerpt >> below), and lots of spare boards (including the meter-long >> systemboard). nice to know there's still some Tower users about - there seemed to be quite a following a few years ago but interest in them seems to have dried up (although there's probably a few posts to comp.sys.ncr still - one day I'll get proper Usenet access here :) do you know if NCR (or AT&T, or whoever's responsible for these things these days!!) can still supply OS tapes? I got my '700 with all sorts of software on the disks - the guys it came from we in to developing programs for X-windows so there's quite a lot of cool stuff on there. Sadly no OS tapes and no manuals (I borrowed field service manuals from someone a while back so have all the useful info from there). mind you, last time I tried to power up the machine it was completely dead. I only had a few minutes so checked obvious fuses etc, but without any luck. Hopefully something simple - I don't fancy trying to trace a fault on one of those system boards :*) > cheers Jules

28 years, 2 months

3
2
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Early Mac Clones

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<But there's a difference between a Z-80 running a text-mode interface, <and an 8088 running a GUI. Also, remember that Bill Gates didn't know Not much. Some z80 systems were faster, considering by time thge 4.77 mhz 8088 was making inroads around 84ish the z80s were cranking at 8mhz some faster. Also the 8088 was anout the same efficientcy as the z80 for byte data. There were a few z80 system with 128k or more of ram running at 6mhz around the time of the PC introduction. I have a Visual1050 (early 1984) that is z80 128kb ram and GUI capable running CPM and GSX-80 all competing with PC GUI systems. Nice box with 10mb hard disk and two 400k floppies and mono monitor. <very much about operating systems, as opposed to languages. MS Windows <is the only OS MS programmed ground up, something they only started No. The internal file system (disk operating system <dos>) used on the TRS80 disk basic was amoung the many that preceeded it that was before 1979. The file system was FAT based. <after the A1000. And, I've never seen Windows multitask under 8MB in the <way the Amiga or a UNIXoid computer can. W3x was not preemtive nor very good coopertive multitask. And even with 32mb didn't change that. It would take w95 to get to that point. CPM in the guise of MPM was doing for years by then. I'd also had CP/M multitasking in 64k in '81. No majik. There was also multiuser basic for Altair and NS* had a multiuser version of the NS* OS. <>> and Gates replied that multitasking really wasn't possible in <>> anything under 8 megs of ram. To which the same reporter replied, The PDP-11s running RSTS (or TSX-11) in the 70s didn't multitask either... sometimes with several dozen users usually in 64kb and maybe 256kb of ram. But heck the PDP-8 was doing in before that in 8kw (RTS-8 or os/8). Of course if you want something modern that can multitask in less than 8mb VAX/VMS (runs fair in 4mb!). Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've begun to feel that anyone who got into Field Circus work after <'83 or so shouldn't be allowed any tools trickier than a screwdriver. As someone that developed service planning and service products I'd agree generally, 60% did not have the concept fo troubleshooting and were only fair board swappers. However the remaining people tended to be highly skilled with pride in their ability, most were very competent in troubleshooting. There were many I'd go to for practical expertize as the Ivory tower folk were far to isolated for my taste. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've seen TeX compiled by Turbo Pascal (TeX is written in Web, which can <be converted into Pascal). IIRC it had to be split into sections to get <over the 64K code limit of TP. I still have problems with the idea of <running it _with enough space for the various variables_ in a 64K machin The conversion process and pascal compiler adds weight. <LaTeX is just a set of macros that run on top of TeX. I can assure you I <know the difference. And how early? Before TeX82? 1979. <TeX in itself has no idea what a printer is. It produces a DVI file whic <is essentially a binary file describing which characters and 'rules' <(lines) have to be put where. There's a printer driver which takes a DVI <file and outputs the code for whatever printer you have. Understood. Did a lot of work in printing for DEC and none slower than 12ppm. The DVI is essentially a bit map and as a result for godd page can be quite big. However the virtual window to disk file works and is adaquately fast. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
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3.5 domestic sunbin 68020 1/4" tape

by akcampb＠ibm.net

Hello, I picked up a box with this Sun OS on 8 tapes. 3.5 domestic sunbin 68020 (boot format). 5 tapes 1.1 SunIPC-M sunbin 68010 (tar) 1.1 SunIPC-M sunbin 68020 (tar) SCSI3 PATCH SUNBIN 68020 (tar)--hand written on box "Do Not Install Patch with V. 3.5." At present I can not use these tapes and do not know if they work. I would *love* to score some cards for this MicroVax II (630QB-A2) that had all the cards removed before I could get to it. Perhaps someone would like to trade parts and/or knowledge for software? The tapes are in what looks like an original box and really want to find a good home. I also seem to have an extra C64, Wang PC3, and an assortment of 8-bit PC cards. Thanks Andy Campbell akcampb(a)ibm.net

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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Service Note: M4 Data 9914

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Although the hardware I'm mentioning is not in itself 'classic,' the technology of 9-track tape certainly is. Forgive me if this seems off-topic, but I'm trying to spare anyone else lucky enough to nab one or more M4 Data 9914 tape drives some grief. There is a potential problem spot in the early production (pre-1992, as I recall) power supply boards to watch out for with these drives. The +12 rail is supplied by an LM350 in a TO-3 case. The leads from the 350 are joined to a three-pin Molex connector that is then plugged into a matching male header on the regulator board. I've seen two failure modes in this design to date. 1). Failure of the regulator. Symptoms include initial startup OK, followed by the +12 rail dropping to about 8.4 volts after no more than three minutes. If the regulator output is examined with an O-scope, one will see an AC potential of about 1.6 MHz at nearly two volts peak-to-peak. Also of note is that the regulator gets a lot warmer than normal, as does the bridge diode module supplying the regulator's input. I've been told by M4's service department that the most common fix for this is to replace capacitor C10 on the regulator board. There is also an alternative cure, specifically replacing the LM350 with a Motorola MC78T12 in a TO-220 case (doesn't seem to be available in a TO-3). Note that it is CRITICAL to use the 78T12, not a standard 7812. The 'T' version has an output current rating of 3 amps, vs. the 1A rating of the standard 7812. The +12 rail in these drives pulls about 2A under normal operation. 2). Poor contact in the three-pin connector, which results in overheating and connector burning. I saw this in the drive I got most recently. Since I lacked a suitable replacement connector, I merely removed the male header and the burned female connector, and then soldered the wires directly to the pads. Post-1992 drives have, I'm told, a completely redesigned power supply that addresses these issues. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Early Mac Clones

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I made a timely find today of the first edition of _Build Your Own >Macintosh and Save a Bundle_. In Chapter 2 it has a price comparison >between the clone "Cat" Mac and the real Mac. The computers it lists are: > >Cat Mac SE >Cat Mac SE 30 >Cat Mac II >Cat Mac IIfx >Cat Mac IIcx >Cat Mac IIci I was referring to the actual clones. I'm not sure where it is in your book, but in my 2nd edition, if you look at Chapter 11, Cat Mac builder alternatives, you will see mention of the Mac clones Zane listed. Tom Owad

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Early Mac Clones

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

But did Apple license this stuff or were they clean-room type clones? Where did the user get an OS? >>I made a timely find today of the first edition of _Build Your Own >>Macintosh and Save a Bundle_. In Chapter 2 it has a price comparison >>between the clone "Cat" Mac and the real Mac. The computers it lists are: >> >>Cat Mac SE >>Cat Mac SE 30 >>Cat Mac II >>Cat Mac IIfx >>Cat Mac IIcx >>Cat Mac IIci > >I was referring to the actual clones. I'm not sure where it is in your >book, but in my 2nd edition, if you look at Chapter 11, Cat Mac builder >alternatives, you will see mention of the Mac clones Zane listed. > >Tom Owad > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Clueless Museums (was: Final Xerox Star demo)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Do phones count? >I've begun to feel that anyone who got into Field Circus work after >'83 or so shouldn't be allowed any tools trickier than a screwdriver. > >Bill >ex-DEC Field Circus 1981-86 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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FS: Apple programs, books, etc

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

Hi Joe, I'm interested in Catalyst. Let me know what you want for it (along with the Lisa). Sincerely, Tom Owad >Quark Catalyst IIe, Program selector for Apple IIe. (disks and book)

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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FS: Apple programs, books, etc

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I have the following Apple II stuff for sale for the best offer. Everything is in perfect condition. If you're interested contact me privately. I don't have ANY Apple stuff that's not listed here. Joe Codex Training Program: Manage your Business with MultiPlan. (disks, book and box) MS Multi-Tool Financial Statement. (disks and book) Quark Catalyst IIe, Program selector for Apple IIe. (disks and book) MicroRef Quick Reference Guide (Word Perfect) DOS? Perfect Link Telecommunications SW (disks, book and box) PFS File Database Management. (disks, book and box) PFS Convert 2 disks only PFS Write Word Processor (disks, book and box) PFS Graph Presentation Graphics (disks, book and box) PFS Report generator (disks, book and box) Hacker game (disks and book) One-on-One basketball game. (disks and book) Apple Logo computer language. (disks, book and box) Super Calc 3a (disks, book and box) Money Street checkbook financial system (disks, book and box) Apple IIe Technical Reference Manual, hard cover ~390 pages Jeeves, personal desktop organizer. (disks, book and box) Computing with the Apple, softcover book Alpha Graph, pie and bar charting program. (disks and book) TaxVision, tax planner. (disks and book) Mostly BASIC, Applications for your Apple II. ~160 page book The Best Apple Software. By Editors of Consumer’s Guide. ~165 page book MultiPlan for the Apple II Plus and IIe. (Training Guide). (disks and book) Inside Apple ProDOS. ~305 page book MS MultiPlan. (disks and book) Sideways. (disks and book) The Sider (manual and disks no hardware) Apple Machine Language for Beginners by Compute ~430 page book The Apple Personal computer for Beginners. ~240 page book Practical Pascal Programs. ~205 page book Minute Manual for PFS: File, Report, Graph, Write The Endless Apple. ~ 270 page book Vanloves Apple II/III Software Directory. a BUNCH of pages The BASIC Conversions HandBook for Apple, TRS-80 and Pet Users. ~80 page book Apple II Super Serial Card User’s Manual (two of them) Apple II AppleMouse II User’s Manual Apple Works Quick Reference Card Apple II DOS User’s Manual Apple II e ProDos Supplement to the Apple II e Owner’s Manual Apple II ProDos User’s Manual Image Writer Owner’s Manual Image Writer User’s Manual. Part I: Reference Image Writer User’s Manual. Part II: Guide to Apple II Apple IIe Design Guidelines Apple II 80 Column Text Card Manual Apple II Extended 80 Column Text Card Supplement (two of them) Apple II AppleSoft BASIC Programmer’s Reference Manual Vol I Apple II AppleSoft BASIC Programmer’s Reference Manual Vol II Apple II DOS Programmer’s Manual Apple II AppleWorks Reference manual Apple II AppleWorks Tutorial Apple II e Owner’s Manual Apple II e Owner’s Manual (different from the first one, two of these) Apple DUODISK Owner’s Manual Apple Pascal Operating System Reference Manual Apple Pascal Language Reference manual Apple Diskware Apple Pascal (three disk set) Apple II Apple Soft Tutorial for the II e Only Apple II Super Serial Card Installation and Operating Manual MicroSoft Multi-Tool Budget for the Apple II & II e. (With manual and disk in the original plastic box. It doesn’t look like it was ever opened.) And I'll throw in: Texas Instruments Computer Program Writing Workbook

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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VCF2 Announcement

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Are transcripts from VCF1 (and VCF2 for that matter) speakers going to be available for sale? Please let me know cost and where to remit payment if so. Thanks, Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: VCF2 Announcement Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 6/7/98 2:12 AM ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | .================================================================. | | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | | H | | | \ \ | | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | | H | | | \ | | | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | | H | | \ \ | | H \ - VCF2 - | \ `-o | | H | |\ `----o | | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | | H / Santa Clara, California | | | H | | | | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | | H | | | | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | | H | | | | | | | | | | / | | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | | H / / | `-o \ \ || | | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | | H ____________________________ | | || | | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | | | |____________________________| |-David Rutland | | | | |__________________________________| | | | | ________________________ ___| On the National Bureau of |__ | | | | || || || | / | Standards Western Automatic | | | | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | worked under Harry D. Huskey | | | | o ________________________ ___| to create the control unit |____| | | | || || || | / | for this little known but | | | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | historically significant | | | |__||_||_||______________| | computer. | | | o ________________________ \______| |___o | | | | || || || | | | | | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| FEATURED SPEAKER | o | | |__||_||_||______________| | | / | | ________________________ ____|-Ray Holt |___/ | | | || || || |__/ | | | | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| Who really invented the |-----o | | | |__||_||_||______________| | first microprocessor? Guess | | | o ________________________ ______| again. The answer will stun |_____ | | | || || || |/ | you. This designer of the | | | | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | JOLT and developer of the | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \___| classic Synertek SYM-1 sin- | | | | ________________________ __| gle-board computer will re- |_____| | | | || || || | | veal why computer history | | | | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | may need to be re-written. | | | | |__||_||_||______________|___ | | | | | ________________________ \___| |__o | | | | || || || | | * speaker list as of 6/1/98 | | | | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | ____ O | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ |____________/ \____________| | | | ________________________ \ | | | | || || || | \ | | | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | | | \__________________________________ | | | o o________ \ | | | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | | // | o__ \ | | | | | | H ___________|________ \ \___| The W O R K S H O P S |___| | | | H | | \ | | | | | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | | | | | H | Vintage Computer |___ \___|-Tom Geller |_____| | | H | Festival... | \ | | | | H / \ \ | Whether you're into game | | | H | The main mission | \_____| consoles, handheld devices, |____o | | H | of the Vintage | | arcade machines or personal | | | H | Computer Festival | | computers, there's a Mac- | | | H | is to promote the |__________| based emulator for you. |____o | | H | preservation of | | | | | H | "obsolete" compu- | | | | | H | ters by offering- | ___| * workshop list as of 6/1/98 |_____ | | H | attendees a chance | / | ____ O | H | | H | to experience the | / |____________/ \____________| H | | H | technologies, peo- | / H | | H | ple and stories | | H | | H | that embody the- | | H | | H | remarkable tale of | | __ ___ __________________ H | | H | the computer revo- | | | |__| | | H | | H | lution. | | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | | H |____________________| | | | go home with an | H | | H | / | _ | | H | | H o o_/ | (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | | H _________________________ | | | H | | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S | | | See the VCF web | H | | H | www.haggle.com | | __ | page for details |==--o H | | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | |__| |___|__________________| H | | H |_________________________| H | | \\ // | | `=====================================================================' | | | | V2.0 rev 1 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | |___________________________________________________________________________| _ Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jun07.021241.1767.45410; Sun, 07 Jun 1998 02:12:42 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id XAA22596; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:06:53 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id XAA10316 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:06:44 -0700 Received: from mailq1.ncal.verio.com (mailq1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.43]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id XAA03375 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:06:43 -0700 Received: from shell.wco.com (root(a)shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by mailq1.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22393 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell (dastar@shell [199.4.94.16]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id XAA25779 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980606230536.25640A-100000@shell> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: VCF2 Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Classic Computer Discussion <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Sender: dastar@shell X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Right, but consider the other stuff. You need postscript, preferrably a program for previewing the dvi file before printing, etc. I think my pentium is faster ;) But that wasn't my original question. Does anyone on this list actually use a REALLY old unusual machine like IMSAI, CoCo, C64, Apple ][, etc. as their major word processing system (unusual compared to Tony's AT)? >Not so. Runs fairly well on similar machines. DRI evern did a version >of tex for CP/M. Have the manual and software. > >Personally I used runoff a lot, it was quite fast. > >Allison > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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680x0's, Towers, & Serendipity

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> I haven't looked at that NG for awhile. The 400 series towers were >> under the distinct diadvantage that there was no (official) support >> for TCP/IP. I was lucky enough to get an ethernet board with my '700 - I've run up XDM on the 700 before and then connected to it from an old '486 PC running Linux just for the hell of it. :) > > > [ OS tapes ] >> You know, I had the address of a vendor that could get you those; >> unfortunately, though, they wanted an arm and a leg for it >:-P. well you could get them through NCR when I last looked (about three years ago now), but they wanted something like 800 dollars US for them, which seemed a little on the expensive side for a ten year old machine that wasn't ever going to be used for anything profitable!! :) >> I got the tapes for my machine, but NCR states vehemently that they >> *cannot* be copied. I don't believe this, of course (how did they >> write the tape in the 1st place?), but I dont' know how you would >> copy them. I'd agree with you there - surely a raw copy of the tape would work. Maybe there was code in the OS to prevent you from reading raw from an OS tape or something, but I'd assume that it could just be copied on another Unix machine. > >> The tower actually *boots* from the tape during install! Is that >> crazy or what? >from what I've seen a lot of Unix machines will do this for diagnostic / install purposes. It's one of those things that reminds me how much I hate modern PCs... Think the best I can do with my 700 is hook the disks up under Linux or something (they're SCSI on the 700, not MFM) and do a raw dump on the disk. In theory I suppose I could then find an identical drive from somewhere and restore the system... (Has anyone ever tried this!?) cheers Jules > > >Jeff > >> mind you, last time I tried to power up the machine it was completely >> dead. I only had a few minutes so checked obvious fuses etc, but without >> any luck. Hopefully something simple - I don't fancy trying to trace a >> fault on one of those system boards :*) >> > >> >> cheers >> >> Jules >> >

28 years, 2 months

1
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680x0's, Towers, & Serendipity was:Stupid lusers...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Cool!!! (And to think that I nearly paid $50 for one of those Sharps...) BTW, find any A2 software? Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kaneko <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 1:16 AM Subject: 680x0's, Towers, & Serendipity was:Stupid lusers... You know, serendipidy is a funny thing. I was at a flea market on Sunday looking for some Apple ][ software, when this guy comes walking into the booth bearing an ATT 7300 UnixPC (and a C-64). He asks the proprietor what he'll give for this 'stuff'. The prop. looks at the 'stuff', offers him $15 for the Commodore, and when asked about the 7300 says: "Nope, cant offer you anything for it. Can't use it. Too dumb." Hm. So I offers the guy $5. "I had no idea 7300's were so *heavy*", I thought as I later hefted it into the trunk of my car. Anyways, I also have a 400 series Tower (as mentioned in the exerpt below), and lots of spare boards (including the meter-long systemboard). I could have purchased a 68020 conversion kit for my tower from WierdStuff in San Jose (this was back in the days when they carried actually interesting material), but I didn't have the bucks. Jeff > >> The MC68010 is the heart of my favorite computer ever, the AT&T Unix PC > >> (built by Convergent Technologies). I've got three, two work fine, one > >> is for parts. _Still_ the prettiest machines in my collection. > > Do you mean the NCR Tower series? Or was this some other offering by > AT&T? I seem to remember that the old Tower 400's had 68010's - I've > still got a few boards somewhere for one (system board was about 1 metre > long and half a metre high!). I've got a complete Tower 700 with a 68030 > as main CPU, and performance still rates really highly even these > days...) > > > Jules > >

28 years, 2 months

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those amigas....

by poesie＠geocities.com

Ahhh... hehe... neglected to mention I am in the twin cities (minneapolis/st paul.) Don't know if they have video toasters but if they do I'm going to get all of them. PS. I date more or less around the Apple II... first computer I ever had was a C64. I guess I've missed all the fun. -Eric

28 years, 2 months

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Stupid lusers...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I got a 68010 chip today... On a visit to my pile at SSI, I saw a sadly disfigured rack out back. Went to have a look at it. It was a PBX, based off a PDP-8 and some custom boards. The top part of the rack, the 8, and most of those custom boards were completely destroyed. Seems the cleaning morons, when told to move the rack elsewhere, decided to pitch it in the trash compactor. Rack proved stronger than trash compactor, and they gave up, picked it out of the compactor, and left. The 8 is now a mini-mini computer. It's too damaged to deal with. I pried the lid off and looked inside, the backplane was demolished, and the cards were mashed to 1/2 height. I couldn't even remove them from the case. Good thing is, the custom boards were the intersting parts. I got a 68010 chip and some miscellaneous socketed chips. There was a few Texas Instruments boards, those were trash. Split in half. I picked at it for awhile, stole the ROMs and some ribbon cables, and left it. Anyway, What's a 68010 do? Anyone have pinouts/assembler refrences/etc? Can I make it do something interesting? -------

28 years, 2 months

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old Amiga systems w/ vid capture?? feature and separate hdd.....

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

Depending on where you live (Shipping and handling). I'd like one. I'm in NJ.

28 years, 2 months

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old Amiga systems w/ vid capture?? feature and separate hdd.....

by poesie＠geocities.com

forgive my lack of knowledge on these, have only heard of them from my brother who goes to an art school. they are ditching a roomful of amigas w/ external hdd's at the end of the year, which have some pretty extensive video editing hardware as well? i will try to find out more, including what they actually ARE, but if anyone is interested please let me know. i will see what i can do! -Eric

28 years, 2 months

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Lisa 2 running Xenix?

by dastar＠wco.com

What was the consensus we came up with regarding Xenix running on a Lisa? Whatever it was, I saw a Lisa 2 today running Xenix (well, I didn't actually see it run, but the owner said he had Xenix running on it). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

28 years, 2 months

1
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Early Mac Clones

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I think that's the same book I've got a copy of around here. Interesting >reading, but I've basically never seen any of that stuff anywhere. Though >I found it really interesting, has anyone ever seen a Mac Plus or simular >system recased into a PC case? It would be a fun project, but I've got to >many other projects :^) > >The closest I've got to a Mac clone (I'm writting this on a PowerMac >8500/180) is a Amiga 3000 with emulation software. The Amiga is actually >about as fast as the real thing. What edition do you have? My 2nd edition book says a listing of clones is given in edition 1, as oppose to just saying they exist. I'd love to get a list of old Mac clones. >Just to ask... do you have the ISBN for that? I'm interested... ;-) The book is: _Build Your Own Macintosh and Save a Bundle_ by Bob Brant, Windcrest/McGraw-Hill. ISBN# 0-8306-3974-8. List price $19.95. It's a great book. Tom Owad

28 years, 2 months

2
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Jacqard 500 computers rescued...ugh!

by K.J.Whitehead＠massey.ac.nz

well I rescued 3 J500 computers and a 20meg removable drive unit. I understand why people collect stamps now.....they take a damn sight less room. Can any one tell me a bit about the units (I did get the manuals...but they are now in storage) Opening one case quickly did not reveal a processor...were they a bit slice job ? Any how I will investigate more later. BTW the drive unit measures about 3"x2"x2" and weighs a hell of a lot...hence the ugh and another step down the road to a massive hernia. Had to pass on the diablo printers for this lot at this stage (shame on me!...but storage is at a premium) so now my collection consists of 3 TRS80 model 1 2 TRS80 model 3 2 TRS80 model 4P 3 Systems 80 (same as the genie) 2 Sinclair QL 1 Amiga 600HD 1 Amiga 1200 1 Altos system (drives,tape units,processor,etc,etc,etc) 1 Nascom (with german DOS, hard sectored drive) 1 Kaypro 4 1 Kaypro 10 1 TI 99/4 12 Polycorp Poly computers (designed and made in New Zealand) 1 Polycorp server unit (z80 and 6809 with 2 8" drives and serial network) 3 Jacqaurd J500 1 Apple 2e 1 Cromenco 1 Amstrad 8256 1 Amstrad 6128 1 MSX and various Misc machines I can't remember at the moment. Oh I have a hell of a lot of manuals and books on the various beasts as well, however I have NO parking left in my shed which required a lot a cleaning to fit the J500s in. I also have a collection of large numbers of floppy drives, monitors,accessories (like atari IR joystick controllers, cromenco joystick,etc). Happy collecting k.j.whitehead(a)massey.ac.nz Keith Whitehead Electronics Technician Electronics Services Institute of Fundamental Sciences Massey University Palmerston North New Zealand 5301

28 years, 2 months

1
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FW: Q-Bus Cards available

by SpamDelendaEst＠my-dejanews.com

Fellow's looking to get rid of some Q-bus cards. Despite his listed prices (I'd wager he'll let them go for a heck of a lot less), it looks like he's just going to trash the stuff if they're not bought. If interested, contact him directly. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: cfchiesa(a)cyber1.servtech.com (christopher f. chiesa) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec Subject: Q-bus Cards FS Date: 7 Jun 1998 19:24:01 -0400 Organization: ServiceTech, Inc. Lines: 49 Message-ID: <6lf7eh$4nk(a)cyber1.servtech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cyber1.servtech.com Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!nntp.abs.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!post.servtech.com!cyber1.servtech.com!not-for-mail Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.os.vms:3070 comp.sys.dec:1075 Hello, all... Apologies in advance if any of the following is inappropriate in either content or presentation; if it is, feel free to TELL me, but please use e-mail and please be gentle! After cannibalizing a disused MicroVAX III, I'm left with several "ex- cess" Q-bus cards (see list below) and thought I'd see if anyone here would like to buy any of 'em. If not, out to the curb they go, a week from this Wednesday or maybe sooner. As a VERY GENERAL guideline of what these cards "are worth," my list shows prices I found on a "DEC reseller" Website, which prices I assume to be relatively "current." However, because these cards are used, and because I don't really know their condition (operating/not), A) I don't expect to receive these prices and will entertain "any reasonable offer," and B) if you buy an item, send me your money (plus shipping, unless you can pick it up in person in the Rochester, NY area), then within 30 days of my shipping the item you determine that it DOESN'T WORK, simply return it to me for a full refund of your purchase price (shipping is NON-refundable). Having said that, here's the list: Card-Edge Model "DEC reseller website" ID Number Description Price ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- M3106 DZQ11 4-line, double-buffered, async EIA $219 (serial port) mux, w/modem control M7546 TQK50 TMSCP controller for TK50 tape unit $258 M7651 DRV11-WA 18/22-bit DMA general-purpose interface $507 N/A QT13 or QT14 (Emulex) tape-drive controller (this N/A unit was used with CDC 9-track drive) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- (FWIW, I also have the above-mentioned 9-track drive, but it's far too bulky for me to even TRY to SHIP unless YOU REALLY MAKE IT WORTH MY WHILE. If I don't get a convincing offer, or an in-person pickup scheduled, by 8AM this coming Wednesday (6/10), this drive ALSO goes out to the curb!) Again, apologies if this is off base in any way. Hope to hear from interested parties soon! Chris Chiesa cfchiesa(a)servtech.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.

28 years, 2 months

1
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Early Mac Clones

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I think that's the same book I've got a copy of around here. Interesting >reading, but I've basically never seen any of that stuff anywhere. Though >I found it really interesting, has anyone ever seen a Mac Plus or simular >system recased into a PC case? It would be a fun project, but I've got to >many other projects :^) > >The closest I've got to a Mac clone (I'm writting this on a PowerMac >8500/180) is a Amiga 3000 with emulation software. The Amiga is actually >about as fast as the real thing. What edition do you have? My 2nd edition book says a listing of clones is given in edition 1, as oppose to just saying they exist. I'd love to get a list of old Mac clones. Thanks, Tom

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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CP/M software (was: Former Disk Costs)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< <> Not so. Runs fairly well on similar machines. DRI evern did a versio <> of tex for CP/M. Have the manual and software. < <Are you sure the program is the same? I had heard that the name was the <but the software was actually completely different. It should be different as Knuth's was written in C and tex is asm or plm code. No credit given and. It's a simpler version circa 1978 and the putput formats are oriented toward character printers. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm halfway through reading 'TeX : The program', and I'm supprised it'll <run on a CP/M machine. It's possible, I suppose. On this machine the <binary for virtex (The normal version) is about 180K, and then it needs a <bit of data space for various tables on top of that. I presume this machine is a PC where code bloat is the order of the day. Early teX (not LateX) was fairly compact compared to recent versions. They were far more limited with what they could do with the printers. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
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FREE Printwheels!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I've got a pair of printwheels for the Xerox MemoryWriter 60 series available. I'm also given to understand that these will fit Diablo 630 series machines as well. I've got Courier 10 and Courier 12. First person to send me a self-addressed stamped mailer gets them! E-mail me for my address. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

1
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Early Mac Clones

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

These are certainly available for the PC. Check out www.emulators.com >> >> > Does anybody know anything about these "thrid-party Macintoshes?" I'm >> > familiar with the Outbound computers, I have never even heard of any >> > other early Mac clones. Any info? >> >> How about Atari STs and Amigas running Macintosh emulators? :) :) :) > >Wasn't there a thing called a 'Magic Sack' or something that was a cartridge >for the ST which you put the ROMs from a Mac into. One version had a Mac >disk controller (IWM) chip in it as well, I think. > >Problem was, it needed genuine Apple Mac ROMs. The only way to get those, >at least at first, was to strip them out of a Mac. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I understand, but many people would much rather do word processing on a more conventional machine, simply in the interest of productivity (I doubt anyone wants to go through a routine of converting files back and forth. I strongly doubt TeX would run on a regular IMSAI with reasonable speed). > > >Well, your can do tons of serious work with one. > >IT runs several OSs (CPM being well known) >Code and application development (asm, basic, Pascal, Cobol, fortran....) >word processing >Graphics work (with the appropriate board) >Accounting >spread sheets (multiplan) >Games, deadline, Zaxxon, Adventure, chess...long list. > >In a word most anything you might imagine. > >My s100 NS* system is one example that is still doing many of those >things. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
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list dead?

by afritz＠iname.com

Is this list dead or did I somehow get unsubscribed? af ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

28 years, 2 months

1
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PDP11/34 Being Retired and Scrapped

by jfedorko＠virtualadmin.com

How about locations? (city, state) thanks. -----Original Message----- From: James L. Rice [SMTP:jrice@texoma.net] Sent: Sunday, June 07, 1998 9:15 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: PDP11/34 Being Retired and Scrapped A plant at which I work is retiring a PDP11/34 and two Industrial I/O racks later this month. This machine has at least two sets of spare boards and even a spare hard drive as well as a complete set of manuals. It has been under a DEC service contract and has been running 24/7 for the last 20 years. After I transfer control of the furnaces to AB PLC's later this month, the DEC has been promised to a scrap yard in the Dallas area. If I can pry it away from the scrapper grasp, would anyone want it. I'm not into mini's so I don't want it, but I hate to see it get recycled for the metal. Also, I know where a HP 3000 can be picked up for probably under a $100. It has a hard drive, at least a med of ram, a 9 track tape drive (requires 3ph 208v), 10-12 HP2392 (as I recall) terminals, all of the cables, boards, expanders, a modem and was running when removed. If anyone is intrested, let me know and I'll pass your email adress to this guy. James

28 years, 2 months

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Back with new finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Been on vacation and the road for the last 17 days and just got finished reading all the e-mail. Seems to have been some nice finds by some in the group. I will not try and list all the items I purchased just the nicer items. I did go to a auction at the U of Houston and must have ran into the same guys everyone else has they cost me over $900 to get a few items that I wanted (by running the bids up). I got about 50 Mac's and over 100 mac kb's to trade or sale cheap. Now on with the list: - Sun 3/50 model 247 not tested yet - Compaq Portable III not tested yet - ADDS Envoy luggable with built-in acoustic modem and network connector - 6 new copies of Symantec Thinks Ligthspeed Pascal for Mac's - HP Integral PC model 207 with software, built-in printer, 256k memory module in rear, HP ROM Module HP-UX/RO operating system Rel 5.0, HP-UX Technical Basic Rel 5.0. The baby fires right up and works great. - PE Nelson model 1020TA - HeathKit H11A digital computer LS11 - Tektronix 4211 Instrument - Orchid Technology ProDesign II card - Sun shoebox model 511 And the list goes on all together I picked up several hundred on this trip, will write more later. Keep Computing John

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Do you ever actually use this IMSAI for things like word processing <which could be done on another computer? Do you use Wintel, or is this <your main computer, like Tony has his AT? Well, your can do tons of serious work with one. IT runs several OSs (CPM being well known) Code and application development (asm, basic, Pascal, Cobol, fortran....) word processing Graphics work (with the appropriate board) Accounting spread sheets (multiplan) Games, deadline, Zaxxon, Adventure, chess...long list. In a word most anything you might imagine. My s100 NS* system is one example that is still doing many of those things. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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PDP11/34 Being Retired and Scrapped

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

I'd like it. Please contact Mike

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Do you ever actually use this IMSAI for things like word processing which could be done on another computer? Do you use Wintel, or is this your main computer, like Tony has his AT? >This >was mail-order from a wholesaler, in 1993. $287 got me a Maxtor 213MB >SCSI >drive. Which is a little over $1/MB. << > >How about an original Shugart Technology (now Seagate) ST506 drive, >first year they came out? Forget the year now, must have been 1980 or >close to it. It ran me $1500 with a case and power supply, no >controller, all for a gigantic 5MB and a blinding fast 90msec access >time. That would be, oh, about US$300/MB. That much gets you an 18GB >disk these days. I used a Konan controller connected to my IMSAI, >development for Z80 code and BIOS device drivers for CP/M v3 and MP/M. > >I still have that drive, though it doesn't read/write so well now, but >the head still moves ok. The IMSAI has had many a MFM drive since those >days, the Konan (not very good) was replaced by an SDS VersaFloppy III, >and it's due for an upgrade to a 3.5" Tandon 20MB in the near future. I >plan to mount it on a prototype card inside the chassis and eliminate a >cabinet. Maybe even 3.5" floppy if I can find some 720K drives. > >For all you purists who want to keep machines original, what do you do >when the machine in question isn't retired yet, and there are 20 years >worth of upgrades installed? I figure that old IMSAI will be running >for another 5-10 years yet, cranking out the occasional Z80 program. > Jack Peacock > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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FWD: PDP-11's being retired

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Found this on comp.sys.dec, please respond directly to him. Mike ============================ Subject: PDP-11's being retired From: "Dave" <synapse(a)halcyon.com> Date: Sat, Jun 6, 1998 14:51 EDT Message-id: <01bd917c$6e480db0$0a0a0a80@mass> We're (finally!) retiring 2 PDP-11/04's, a PDP-11/23 and 2 PDP-11/73 clones (SMS). Anyone have any use for them? The damn things won't die! They're going in the scrap bin if I don't get a response in a week. Send me some mail or give me a call. Dave Duperon (425) 356-5569 (days) (425) 338-7198 (eves)

28 years, 2 months

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VCF2 Announcement

by dastar＠wco.com

___________________________________________________________________________ | | | .================================================================. | | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | | H | | | \ \ | | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | | H | | | \ | | | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | | H | | \ \ | | H \ - VCF2 - | \ `-o | | H | |\ `----o | | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | | H / Santa Clara, California | | | H | | | | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | | H | | | | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | | H | | | | | | | | | | / | | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | | H / / | `-o \ \ || | | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | | H ____________________________ | | || | | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | | | |____________________________| |-David Rutland | | | | |__________________________________| | | | | ________________________ ___| On the National Bureau of |__ | | | | || || || | / | Standards Western Automatic | | | | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | worked under Harry D. Huskey | | | | o ________________________ ___| to create the control unit |____| | | | || || || | / | for this little known but | | | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | historically significant | | | |__||_||_||______________| | computer. | | | o ________________________ \______| |___o | | | | || || || | | | | | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| FEATURED SPEAKER | o | | |__||_||_||______________| | | / | | ________________________ ____|-Ray Holt |___/ | | | || || || |__/ | | | | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| Who really invented the |-----o | | | |__||_||_||______________| | first microprocessor? Guess | | | o ________________________ ______| again. The answer will stun |_____ | | | || || || |/ | you. This designer of the | | | | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | JOLT and developer of the | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \___| classic Synertek SYM-1 sin- | | | | ________________________ __| gle-board computer will re- |_____| | | | || || || | | veal why computer history | | | | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | may need to be re-written. | | | | |__||_||_||______________|___ | | | | | ________________________ \___| |__o | | | | || || || | | * speaker list as of 6/1/98 | | | | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | ____ O | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ |____________/ \____________| | | | ________________________ \ | | | | || || || | \ | | | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | | | \__________________________________ | | | o o________ \ | | | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | | // | o__ \ | | | | | | H ___________|________ \ \___| The W O R K S H O P S |___| | | | H | | \ | | | | | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | | | | | H | Vintage Computer |___ \___|-Tom Geller |_____| | | H | Festival... | \ | | | | H / \ \ | Whether you're into game | | | H | The main mission | \_____| consoles, handheld devices, |____o | | H | of the Vintage | | arcade machines or personal | | | H | Computer Festival | | computers, there's a Mac- | | | H | is to promote the |__________| based emulator for you. |____o | | H | preservation of | | | | | H | "obsolete" compu- | | | | | H | ters by offering- | ___| * workshop list as of 6/1/98 |_____ | | H | attendees a chance | / | ____ O | H | | H | to experience the | / |____________/ \____________| H | | H | technologies, peo- | / H | | H | ple and stories | | H | | H | that embody the- | | H | | H | remarkable tale of | | __ ___ __________________ H | | H | the computer revo- | | | |__| | | H | | H | lution. | | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | | H |____________________| | | | go home with an | H | | H | / | _ | | H | | H o o_/ | (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | | H _________________________ | | | H | | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S | | | See the VCF web | H | | H | www.haggle.com | | __ | page for details |==--o H | | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | |__| |___|__________________| H | | H |_________________________| H | | \\ // | | `=====================================================================' | | | | V2.0 rev 1 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | |___________________________________________________________________________| _ Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

28 years, 2 months

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Lisa Code Name (was: Apple ][ video)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:30 PM 6/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >one. Here's what Newsbytes had to say about it: Where are you getting the Newsbytes quotes? Seems like it would be a great reference. >name. Apple seemed to be into girl's names at the time. The Apple /// >was developed under the project name "Sara." Who was Lisa named after, >anybody know?

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:12 AM 6/5/98 +1000, you wrote: >it didn't have more was that I was paying for it, and the cost of 8Mb of >memroy and 200Mb of disk, plus computer was lots. You tend to forget how >much disk space used to cost, I've got the bill somewhere for the 200Mb >Quantum SCSI disk - it was over AUD$2K. Total system cost was about $10K :-( I recently came across an old invoice for a hard drive I had bought. This was mail-order from a wholesaler, in 1993. $287 got me a Maxtor 213MB SCSI drive. Which is a little over $1/MB. Nowadays, Price Club has 5/6GB drives for about a nickel/MB. (Of course, my first ever hard disk was a used ST-225 (and HDC) for $250 -- about $10/MB...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<How about an original Shugart Technology (now Seagate) ST506 drive, <first year they came out? Forget the year now, must have been 1980 or I have a sample from 1980, still working. along the way it was ued to test a disk controller using NEC d7261 in an early XT. BEfore that it was on a multibus 8088 system and it was my first drive when I got a teltek controller. It's still good and I checked reciently it still has the copy of CP/M I last updated in 84ish before bumping up to a Quantum D540. I still have a sa400 that was original to the NS* MDS-A controller (1977) and a later SA400L both working. <For all you purists who want to keep machines original, what do you do <when the machine in question isn't retired yet, and there are 20 years <worth of upgrades installed? I figure that old IMSAI will be running <for another 5-10 years yet, cranking out the occasional Z80 program. My NS* is running a soft sector controller I built in '81(765 based) though the MDS-A is still operational in a netronics box from '79. Both are still in use and used for assorted development work. 20 and 19 years later! Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<notes as to what I added and how I did it and why. They're in with the <PERQ manuals, and I regard my manuals as being even more valuable than my <computers. Amen. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Interesting VAXen drive problem

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

This is just sort of a FYI message, I've already solved my problem. It started off easy enough, I needed to use one of my Q-Bus VAXen, and was planning on using the big old MV2. Turns out one of it's power supplies is apparently dead :^( Haven't really had time to look into that. No problem says I, I'll just throw one of the disks in my VAXstation II/RC. The disk freaked out and made some really alarming noises. Turns out the RQDX3 is apparently bad. I replaced it, and then it told me the drive was off line. I proceeded to give the system a good checkup, and couldn't find anything wrong, finally I pulled the other HD out of the MV2. It worked just fine. The answer to the problem appears to be that the first HD had been initialized on a Emulex controller which is the primary controller in my MV2, the second one was initialized on a RQDX3 (the secondary controller in the MV2). Both had bootable VMS installs on them, unfortunatly the one I needed was the first, but I've now got that taken care of. Just an interesting and educational problem I thought I'd share. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

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Former Disk Costs (was: 32 bit Macs (was Atari hard ))

by peacock＠simconv.com

>> I recently came across an old invoice for a hard drive I had bought. This was mail-order from a wholesaler, in 1993. $287 got me a Maxtor 213MB SCSI drive. Which is a little over $1/MB. << How about an original Shugart Technology (now Seagate) ST506 drive, first year they came out? Forget the year now, must have been 1980 or close to it. It ran me $1500 with a case and power supply, no controller, all for a gigantic 5MB and a blinding fast 90msec access time. That would be, oh, about US$300/MB. That much gets you an 18GB disk these days. I used a Konan controller connected to my IMSAI, development for Z80 code and BIOS device drivers for CP/M v3 and MP/M. I still have that drive, though it doesn't read/write so well now, but the head still moves ok. The IMSAI has had many a MFM drive since those days, the Konan (not very good) was replaced by an SDS VersaFloppy III, and it's due for an upgrade to a 3.5" Tandon 20MB in the near future. I plan to mount it on a prototype card inside the chassis and eliminate a cabinet. Maybe even 3.5" floppy if I can find some 720K drives. For all you purists who want to keep machines original, what do you do when the machine in question isn't retired yet, and there are 20 years worth of upgrades installed? I figure that old IMSAI will be running for another 5-10 years yet, cranking out the occasional Z80 program. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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HDOS tech info ?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 466 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980607/cafc15c7/at…

28 years, 2 months

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Web pages

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:02 PM 6/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >The annoying pop-ups come from a little JavaScript. In netscape, you can >disable JavaScript and the pop-ups go away. I generally find that Java >and JavaScript (which, of course, are two completely unrelated languages) >are used to either annoy me or to crash my browser, so I disable them >both. Heck, I generally use Netscape 2.02, so it can't even *handle* Java. And yes, turning off JS does get rid of lots of annoying things. (And turning off autoload images not only speeds things up, but also avoids the constant disk abuse caused by continually reloading GIF animations -- which are much like hitting the gas and the brakes at the same time... gives your tires a good workout but doesn't really get you anywhere.) (As for home pages... I have my "home" page set to <http://www.sinasohn.com/>, but have it set not to autoload it at start-up -- I know what it says, and I already think I'm great, so I don't need constant reminders. But it is available one click away for them what needs convincing of my amazingness.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Acer Acros

by jwindle＠comteck.com

Hello I was wondering if you could tell me the jumper settings for the mother board. I am having trouble with the ps2 mouse port causing the system to lock up. Thanks Jim Windle

28 years, 2 months

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Apple ][ video

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

do any of you have a Lisa, if so, I'll pay $100 or less. Thanks Mike

28 years, 2 months

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Nicolet 1080 rescued

by guerney＠uq.net.au

A Nicolet computer (maybe the same model) was one of the first computers I ever used, and most certainly the smallest up until then. It was attached to a Bruker NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) instrument at the University of Sydney when I used it as a research student from about 1975 or 76. It did real time fast fourier transforms and interfaced directly to the Bruker instrument. I think I remember people using it for other computing (maybe with BASIC loaded) when they could get some time on it. For a while, all it had was a teletype and paper tape punch/reader and that was my first experience in the use of front panel switches to load a bootstrap paper tape loader and then through the sequence of punched tapes until the final program was loaded. Of course you never turned it off if you could help it. Later it acquired a twin magnetic tape unit but I had finished my graduate research then and never experienced that luxury. Phil Guerney Brisbane Australia guerney(a)uq.net.au -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> Date: Saturday, June 06, 1998 4:43 AM Subject: Nicolet 1080 rescued >Since I'm sure not many of you have ever heard of Nicolet Instrument >Corporation (Madison, Wisconsin), I'll tell you what I know so far.

28 years, 2 months

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Uncle Sam wants...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, if you want a job in computers, then you'll have to get used to it.... ;-) Think LCD dipslays. Big, numeric ones. Kinda like trying to add 999999999+1 on a 8-digit calculator. Ciao, Tim "NASDAQ Lover" Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, June 07, 1998 1:24 AM Subject: Re: Uncle Sam wants... > > > > >What do you mean? I'm not too familiar with stocks, so I don't have >any idea what Dow Jones IS, never mind where and how it's displayed. >>Max Eskin wrote: >>> >>> Better yet, tell them you were born in 2000! They'll never be able >>> to draft you then! >>> By the way, I heard that there was also a computer issue with >>> Dow Jones hitting 10K. Are there any more similar limitations that >>> will soon be reached? >> >>The Dow Jones hitting five digits is a problem in the display >>department, not the calculation department. >>-- >>Ward Griffiths >>They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >>Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Uncle Sam wants...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What do you mean? I'm not too familiar with stocks, so I don't have any idea what Dow Jones IS, never mind where and how it's displayed. >Max Eskin wrote: >> >> Better yet, tell them you were born in 2000! They'll never be able >> to draft you then! >> By the way, I heard that there was also a computer issue with >> Dow Jones hitting 10K. Are there any more similar limitations that >> will soon be reached? > >The Dow Jones hitting five digits is a problem in the display >department, not the calculation department. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Yes I have one too and from the last listing on them they were early prototypes used to test market the gs board inside them. At 12:27 PM 5/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >I just acquired an Apple IIgs that is in an Apple IIe style case! > >It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks >exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. > >Perhaps it's something Apple did for the educational market, to make it look >like the other machines they were used to, and incorporating a built-in >keyboard which would be less fragile than the multi-piece regular IIgs >series. > >Anybody ever heard of these? > >Kai > >

28 years, 2 months

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Compaq Portable in OZ?????

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm anyone on this list in OZ have a original Compaq Portable they want to sell/trade or give away??

28 years, 2 months

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