- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:36 PM 6/21/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Ok Atari-heads, what the hell is an SLMC804 Laser? It looks like some >sort of SCSI adapter. Its an external device the size of an external >modem. The SLM804 Laser Printer was Tramiel's attempt at a laser-for-the-masses back when a Laser Printer was a multi-thousand-dollar item. It had no on-board intelligence or memory; it used the ST's CPU/RAM. Sounds like what you have there is the controller interface. (Plugs into the ACSI port on one end and the printer on the other.) P.S., anyone want an SLM804 in need of some repair? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 12 months

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IMSAI 8080

by peacock＠simconv.com

> Yes, I wonder how many of these 'collectable' computers > are in any sense being preserved properly. I would doubt > if ROMs were ever backed up or PSUs tested. Hmm, IMSAI's didn't have ROMs (or PALs and FPGAs, programmable logic had yet to be invented), unless you added them in yourself. As for checking the power supply, an IMSAI was extremely easy to eyeball...huge transformer, diodes, and beer can size capacitors. One problem I never had with IMSAIs was in the power supply, the design was right out of Electronics 101, nothing beats a big lump of iron for simplicity. Now rust might be a problem... Actually, the only real problem I've ever found with S-100s is the bus connectors wearing out. I have an old Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 in need of a replacement Morrow motherboard. Well, not really in a hurry to fix it, all the Ithaca boards have been in the IMSAI for the last 10 years, but I hate to throw out the DPS-1 since it had the neat front panel with the PDP style toggle switches. Jack Peacock

27 years, 12 months

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2
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MicroVAX 2000

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<VMS 5.5-2 installation. I really don't know about the resistor board, <though -- I'm afraid I've never seen one. It's there to load the switcher, a disk will do that too! Allison

27 years, 12 months

1
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MicroVAX 2000

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< A uVAX 2000 uses MFM drives, either a <Microplis 1325/DEC RD53 (70MB) or a Maxtor 2190/DEC RD54 (159MB). In <order to load VMS you really need the RD54, 70MB is too small. The HD You can load v5.4 on to a RD53 if DECwindows is tailored off. You get about 20k blocks that way. A RD54 is better though. I have three of them, nice uVAX two running VMS (rd53), one Netboots off the 3100m76. The third has ultrix V4.2 in rd53(70mb). Allison

27 years, 12 months

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available 8" disks

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Next question? WFERE is 'local'?? I keep forgetting that no matter how often I've posted my location it's never read... Eastern MA about 25 west if boston. Allison

27 years, 12 months

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Apollo again.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

How nice: Both of the video cards I got are toast. One acts completely dead, the other shows a series of red vertical bars about .25" apart, with crap in between. Apparently, these were decommissioned for a reason... -------

27 years, 12 months

7
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MicroVAX 2000

by peacock＠simconv.com

> This one is a Model 625NT-AA, and comes without harddisk. It appears that there is a resistor board installed to provide a load comparable to the drive on the power supply. According to a rather sketchy spec sheet that I d/l'd from DEC, it can handle a maximum 318mb local disk. Based on the 53C80 chip installed, I presume that the drive should be SCSI. > Not exactly, the SCSI port is only for a tape drive, a TK50Z (an early ancestor to modern DLT drives). A uVAX 2000 uses MFM drives, either a Microplis 1325/DEC RD53 (70MB) or a Maxtor 2190/DEC RD54 (159MB). In order to load VMS you really need the RD54, 70MB is too small. The HD controller is the 40 pin SMC chip on the motherboard. Oddball MFM format, not compatible with WD HDCs, but the 2000 has a formatter in the ROM. The 318MB figure comes from using two RD54 drives (159 each). > At the rear of the machine are three sub-D connectors, one each 25-pin, 15-pin, and 9-pin. What are their functions? The 15 and 9 are presently encumbered by a plugin box that has three RJ45(?) connectors. Network link? > The 25 pin is the TTA2 port, RS423 (close to RS232) with full modem support (sort of). The 9 pin is TTA3:, another RS423 serial port for a local printer or terminal, but not wiored like a PC 9 pin serial. The 15 pin is for a workstation cable and carries the video (the coax connector on the little box), plus a keyboard and mouse connector (TTA0: and TTA1: serial ports). They are not RJ45s. You should also have a BNC coax connector for 10Base5 thinwire ethernet. For more info check the comp.os.vms and comp.sys.dec newsgroups, they have lots of FAQs for uVAX 2000s. I don't know the URLs but if you post a question on one of the ngs they will direct you to the web page. BTW, I might have an expansion memory board left for a uvax 2000, i'll check the old DEC scrap box. IIRC it brings one up to either 8 or 14MB of RAM. (a uVAX II maxes out at 16MB of RAM) Jack Peacock

27 years, 12 months

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new additions, info wanted

by g＠kurico.com

More fun stuff picked up this weekend: Canon Cat - A glorified word processor that was created by one of the original members of the Macintosh team. Mentor Graphics badged Apollo DN300 workstation. Whole box of Apple II cards and other misc stuff. Anyone have any info the the Canon Cat? Or manuals/software for the Apollo? Oh, I also have a couple of AT&T 6300 cpu's that I'll give to anyone who wants them (don't know if they work, don't have time to check them out). I also have a AT&T 3B2-310 with external expansion unit (XM something or other) for sale or trade, make me an offer I can't refuse :) BTW I'm in Austin, TX. George

27 years, 12 months

2
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Intelus/NEC laptop

by gpine＠gri.org

I recently acquired a laptop that appears to be an NEC PC-8201 with a label of a company named Intelus on the front where the PC-8201 label would be. There is also a serial number label on the back that lists the address of Intelus as in Rockville, Maryland. In addition, it has a miniature connector labeled phone on the back in place of the second SIO connector (maybe the unit has an internal modem? I haven't opened it up to check), and it has an additional small removable panel on the back that provides access to an edge-card connector on the motherboard. My machine has nothing plugged into this connector. The machine fires up showing BASIC, TELCOM, and TEXT programs in ROM, and the BASIC program even says PC-8201 Basic, verson 1.1. The machine is in all other respects (keyboard, display, battery pack, ROM access, and external connectors) identical to my PC-8201. Is anyone familiar with this machine?

27 years, 12 months

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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater areas Wa

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:01 PM 6/18/98 +1, you wrote: >Robotron ? > >Talking about the East German Computers ? Robotron is also a video game ca. 1981-2 (Williams, iirc) that was semi-unique in that it used dual joysticks -- one to control movement and one to control firing direction -- and in order to be at all successful at the game one had to be able to operate the two completely independantly of each other. Other, similar games included Sinistar (no relation, and don't even go there) and one whose name I forgot that had to do with spiders and webs. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 12 months

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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater areas Was: Re: Cross listing Ebay items)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:56 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >I've got a Joust I might let go for something tasty. It's the same >system board, you only need to swap the ROMs and re-work the control >panel ;) ROM's might be possible, but a Robotron game gets a lot of heavy-duty usage; I don't think I could trust any mods I would make to the controls. 8^( --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 12 months

2
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What is the first computer?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>>Yes, but Pascal was born in 1623 so Schickard's device most likely beats >>whatever Pascal developed in his lifetime (I think he was 18 when he >>invented it). > > Late-comers, all of them. My vote for the earliest computer is the > Antikythera Device, a bronze mechanical lunar month calculator built in > Greece about 80AD. > > Shickard's "Calculating Clock" was the next mechanical calculator of record > in 1623, followed by Blaise Pascal's "Pascaline" in 1642, Samuel Morland's > mechanical calculator in 1666, Gottfried Leibnez' "Stepped Reckoner" in > 1674, Phillip-Malthus Hahn's calculating machines (the first sold > commercially) in 1774, and the third Earl of Stanhope's multiplying > calculator in 1777. The first mass-produced calculating machine was Thomas > de Colmar's "Arithmometer" in 1820. Good point. Many early clocks were (or contained) primitive analogue computers, so I think you win there... sort of. Two books to look at: "The Mediaeval Machine" by J. Gimpel and "A History of Engineering in Classical and Mediaeval Times" by D. R. Hill. Gimpel will fill several holes in your timeline - Su Sung made quite a complicated astronomical clock in c. 1090; the middle ages saw a sizeable crop of similar machines in the west, culminating in that of Giovanni Dondi, under development from 1348 until 1364. Hill's treatment of clocks is also interesting. He points out that the Classical civilisations had (presumably inherited from the ancients) a system by which the hour changed in length depending on the date so that sunrise to sunset was always twelve hours. Thus ordinary timekeeping clocks had to combine time and date in an analogue computer to get hour-number out at the end. Some of the mechanisms Hill describes get this quite wrong! (I don't recall any of these clocks also taking account of lattitude...) OK. I'll go for the Z1 as the first _general purpose_ computer. Philip.

27 years, 12 months

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Atari SLMC804 Laser - What Is It?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Ok Atari-heads, what the hell is an SLMC804 Laser? It looks like some sort of SCSI adapter. Its an external device the size of an external modem. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98]

27 years, 12 months

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attn: John Keyes

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

I'm sorry for cluttering up the list, but our email system strips off the senders address! John, if you get this message, Please respond via private E-Mail. Thanks! - Jeff We now return you to our regualrly scheduled programme . . .

27 years, 12 months

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Help! RA82, etc.

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Bruce, I had most of your problems on a ra90 ... ---------- > From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Help! RA82, etc. > Date: Sunday, June 21, 1998 9:40 PM > OK... I've got a MicroVAX II almost ready to go. However, I'm handicapped > by my lack of any documentation for the RA82 disk drive. sure you are ;-)) > The problem: When spun up, even when connected to the KDA50 controller, > the drive gets up to speed, seeks a couple of times, and then lights 'Fault.' > > My question: Do I even have the thing wired right? Could someone familiar > with this stuff describe to me which cable goes where, just to make sure > I'm not hallucinating? at least, if you are really sure, you made the right connections, test & check it again. the sdi cables are very picky, if you "made" a connection, be sure to fasten the screws also. sometimes it doesn't work without fasten it. > The controller seems OK. It passes its internal and service diagnostics, > and when I stare at the LEDs on the two boards long enough I can see some > sort of fast scanning sequence going on about every 5-7 seconds. one more shot in the dark ;-)) the ra81 & ra82 have in diagnostic port on the disks. you can get more information about the disks, if you put a terminal at it. But don't ask, i never done it, (i got my disks to run without it) try DejaNews. hope it helps a little, emanuel

27 years, 12 months

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Atari SLMC804 Laser - What Is It?

by franke＠sbs.de

> Ok Atari-heads, what the hell is an SLMC804 Laser? It looks like some > sort of SCSI adapter. Its an external device the size of an external > modem. One of the 'Power without the Price' products from ATARI. basicly a 300 dpi Laser unit with only minimal control logic (only a bit map buffer for one (?) line of graphic. Connection to the ST computers where made via the ACSI port - ATARIs castarated version of SCSI used for the ST Harddisk. The whole font and page processing had to be done by the host computer - but the Printer was availabel for less than 2000 Mark (~1300 USD) when new - only haf the price of the cheapest 'regular' laser printer. Servus Hans PS.: 20c for THE hair (but only if a nice poly acryl display case is included). -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 12 months

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WTB/T: Conner hard drives

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Conner CP-3044 3.5" 40mb (42mb actual?) IDE hard drive rats, I had a whole heap of these a while ago but disposed of them all - they seem extremely unreliable and kept on dying on me, so I dumped the lot... I don't know if it's true of all IDE drives, but you may be able to use a different drive; you just won't get more than the 40MB out of it... cheers J.

27 years, 12 months

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principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 22, 1998 4:20 Subject: Re: principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080) they where used in school in the states, the where called I think "bell & Howards" they also came with the lid screwed down..........to stop the little ones touching the "shiny" bits inside.......... > > > > >Well, I've never seen one. Then again, I've never seen your ass. >Why were they black? Was it a special edition? Were the beige ones >or the black ones first? >> >>> its just getting worse by the minute check this out from the Obsolete >>> Computer helpline: >>> >>> >>> Matt Antonellis <206-343-7576 P.S.T.> >>> seattle, wa usa - Friday, June 19, 1998 at 18:43:02 >>> >>> FOR SALE: $500 rare BLACK AppleIIplus very good condition call MATT >>> ANTONELLIS in SEATTLE 206-343-7576 >> >>Rare my hairy ass. This is about as rare as the hair on my ass. >> >>Sam Alternate e-mail: >dastar(a)wco.com >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >> >> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2! >> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details >> [Last web page update: 06/18/98] >> >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >

27 years, 12 months

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principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:13 AM 6/20/98 -0700, you wrote: >>After a round of email bidding, the seller sez: >>Somebody recently suggested that it would be better to offer stuff >>directly to readers of this list rather than advertising them via online I seem to remember that eBay offers private auctions -- you put something up for bid and just tell the people you want about it. That sort of thing might facilitate auctioning things off to list members. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 12 months

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Sorry

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Sorry for the personal message... I told Pine *not* to reply to the Group, but... BAD Pine! BAD! BAD! Sorry again.... I will wear a Luser hat and sit in the corner for an hour trying to find a missing comma in the middle of a 6 Mb hex core-dump. Cheers John

27 years, 12 months

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9 TRK Drives, Oz, Driving

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello List::::: I am looking for one or two 'real' DEC 9 trk tape drives w/formatter cards, in the SoCal area... TU16 and the like, and one of the small 7" reel jobs whose model number escapes me just now. I am willing to pay moderate sums for known-good-working units. Also looking for a *complete* 11/750 system... (computer, drives, tape unit, console, docs[ha!], etc.). I have a very old 11/15 to sell/trade, and several Plessey clone devices, including two CDC Caelus drives w/interface cards and engineering docs.... I can deliver in the General SoCal area. Note to Down Under Listmembers: I will be travelling to Sydney on the 2nd of July, and then caravanning to Adelaide over the space of about 10 days. It would be cool to meet some of my fellow collectors while I'm in your quadrant of the globe. E-mail me privately if there's any interest.... esp. Huw Davies, it would be fun to thank you in person for the help with my RK05 odyssey... ;} Driving: The farthest I've gone to 'rescue' PDP stuff was Los Angeles to Seattle and back in three days... 2200 miles. It was truly fun to be out on the Road away from work, phones, e-mail, faxes, memos, interruptions... thanks again to Bruce Lane for providing the excuse.. :o Oh, yeah... anyone have a Kennedy 9300 cheap/trade/free? I need some Parts...... Cheers John

27 years, 12 months

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HP 85

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I personally think that $50 is max for any desktop computer over 10 >years old, with some exceptions like Lisas and Apple Is. Anyway, some >guy at the MIT flea today had a whole stack of them. What are they? Those are the ones I saw as well... he was asking $25 for a broken one (but cosmetically pretty good) and $100 for the working ones. If I remember correctly, they are essentially a BASIC computer with printer and something similar to a TU58 drive. It's just that I remember using one at WPI when I was there in the 70's and wanted to get one for my collection... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 12 months

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Help! RA82, etc.

by kyrrin＠jps.net

OK... I've got a MicroVAX II almost ready to go. However, I'm handicapped by my lack of any documentation for the RA82 disk drive. The problem: When spun up, even when connected to the KDA50 controller, the drive gets up to speed, seeks a couple of times, and then lights 'Fault.' I'll press the 'Fault' button to try and reset. On the first press, 'Run/Stop' and 'Write Protect' flash. On the second press, it goes through its seek-and-fault cycle again. My question: Do I even have the thing wired right? Could someone familiar with this stuff describe to me which cable goes where, just to make sure I'm not hallucinating? The controller seems OK. It passes its internal and service diagnostics, and when I stare at the LEDs on the two boards long enough I can see some sort of fast scanning sequence going on about every 5-7 seconds. I can, if need be, open up the RA82 and see which internal LEDs come up. Any and all help appreciated. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 12 months

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Recent Commodore finds...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

What a surprising day, went to the Stockton Delta College Flea Market (in California) and found a couple goodies... First I bought an SX-64 keyboard and C-128 in the $1.00 section of someones space. I bought the SX keyboard cause I have a second (dead) SX without one the 128 was because I felt sorry for them having to break a 20 (also I figured if it was dead I could use its keyboard with that keyboardless 128D I have). After wandering a bit my wife shows up with a keyboardless SX-64 also from the same booth's dollar section, what a wonderful woman! (I must've missed that SX, better have my eyes checked!). Anyway $3.00 spent and get home to discover the 128 works (missing the F3 key) and the SX has some issues but seems functional (does not boot to BASIC, just a black screen, but does run carts ok, probably bad BASIC/KERNEL ROMs also keyboard connector/curcuitry needs work too.) So far I have bought 3 128s (real cheap) with the plan to use the (supposed dead 128's) keyboard on the D to discover it was not even a dead machine after all. Well Sam, (who finds many a dead Commodore 8-bit) I guess Commodore spirits aren't with you. :) Almost was tempted to buy a few of someone else's Mac problems (nice seller, he told the truth on all of em), but I figured I'd play it smart (this time). -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

27 years, 12 months

1
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HP 85

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I personally think that $50 is max for any desktop computer over 10 years old, with some exceptions like Lisas and Apple Is. Anyway, some guy at the MIT flea today had a whole stack of them. What are they? > >I just wanted to find out if people on this list think that $100 for >an HP85 with printer and tape drive is a fair price. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | >| Digital Equipment Corporation | | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 12 months

3
2
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What is the first computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<So what you're saying is that my dream of a steam-driven computer isn't t <ravings of a madman after all... Humm... steam driven logic... sequential, genius locomotive. Ah, err, been done. ;) Allison

27 years, 12 months

1
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HP 85

by mbg＠world.std.com

I just wanted to find out if people on this list think that $100 for an HP85 with printer and tape drive is a fair price. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 12 months

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What is the first computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<that relay) in your logic. If you took an electronic logic circuit and <replaced the gates with relays, the result would be very slow. But if you <implemented the same logic with relays and redesigned it, the result <would be possibly useable. Logic design with realys have different implmentations as a bistable with gates can be one relay. Stepping relays are inherent counters and can be made to count to any amount. I've used realy logic for machine control, operating speed 2 to 5 sec per interation so fast was not a required thing. Doing sequential work using relays and switches is really fun. Of course all that drove air valves so there was air logic too. ;) Oh, and you can do logic with air valves, air one shots, even flipflops.

27 years, 12 months

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principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, I've never seen one. Then again, I've never seen your ass. Why were they black? Was it a special edition? Were the beige ones or the black ones first? > >> its just getting worse by the minute check this out from the Obsolete >> Computer helpline: >> >> >> Matt Antonellis <206-343-7576 P.S.T.> >> seattle, wa usa - Friday, June 19, 1998 at 18:43:02 >> >> FOR SALE: $500 rare BLACK AppleIIplus very good condition call MATT >> ANTONELLIS in SEATTLE 206-343-7576 > >Rare my hairy ass. This is about as rare as the hair on my ass. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)wco.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2! > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details > [Last web page update: 06/18/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 12 months

3
2
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HP 85

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

So how much do you want for my two gallons of distilled enjoyment :) >Others might disagree with my definition of "worth", but if you think >you'll get more than $100 of enjoyment out of the setup, then I'd say >it's worth it. > >With all the discussions lately about auctions and pricing, I think >folks are losing sight that collecting classic computers is something >that we do for fun, not as an investment! Personally, I get far more >delight from restoring and using the machines than I do from bragging >about what I own. > >Tim. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 12 months

1
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Sun 3/50

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

My visit to the MIT Flea today was unproductive. But, so it wouldn't be wasted, I grabbed a Sun 3/50 for $1. It seems to work, and is in good condition. I looked at the board, it has a 68020. Can someone tell me more? Also, how do I hook it up to a terminal? Which pins do I need? I plugged my Mac in, but it didn't show anything. My Mac serial cable only has pins 2,3,6,7,8, and 21. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 12 months

1
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HP 85

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

Megan - > I just wanted to find out if people on this list think that $100 for > an HP85 with printer and tape drive is a fair price. I'd have to say probably not. I have a pair of HP-85s that I snagged in the last 18 months. One cost me $1.00 at a private school flea market and the other cost $12.50 at an auction run by Goodwill. The system from Goodwill included an HP padded travel case -- in fact, the system was originally stacked with some luggage and had not been bought during that portion of the auction. I found out after I pointed the system out to the auctioneer and bought it when they auctioned off the rest of the computer stuff (usually C64s, Atari, and the occasional Apple IIc or Mac Plus) that I could have simple asked for a "no bid" sale for the last bid price in the luggage area and gotten the system for $3.50. -- Tony Eros NSIS - ENS/Internet Wilmington, DE -----Original Message----- From: mbg(a)world.std.com [SMTP:mbg@world.std.com] Sent: Sunday, June 21, 1998 1:35 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: HP 85 I just wanted to find out if people on this list think that $100 for an HP85 with printer and tape drive is a fair price. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 12 months

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principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by fauradon＠pclink.com

So how much do you sell you hair for? ;) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival <siconic(a)jasmine.psyber.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 11:23 PM Subject: Re: principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080) >On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Desie Hay wrote: > >> its just getting worse by the minute check this out from the Obsolete >> Computer helpline: >> >> >> Matt Antonellis <206-343-7576 P.S.T.> >> seattle, wa usa - Friday, June 19, 1998 at 18:43:02 >> >> FOR SALE: $500 rare BLACK AppleIIplus very good condition call MATT >> ANTONELLIS in SEATTLE 206-343-7576 > >Rare my hairy ass. This is about as rare as the hair on my ass. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)wco.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2! > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details > [Last web page update: 06/18/98] >

27 years, 12 months

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principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

>>What really scrapes my oxide is an approach that I am starting to see more >>often in postings in and newsgroups. (it has happened to me twice now in >>the last month) >>Someone posts an item with an asking price. I respond to the message with >>a counter offer. The seller responds with a counter-counter offer that I >>find acceptable. I respond to the message with my acceptance and provide >>shipping details. The seller then responded back indicating that he has >>received a higher offer and that the unit has been sold without so much as >>an opportunity for further response. Although I've participated in "auctions" of this type, I haven't gotten shanked by another bidder. I can see how easy the private auction process can be abused. I sometimes find myself doubtful of the bid increments that I've seen; too easy to fake interest to inflate the price. >>BTW: a HERO-2000 auction just closed on eBay for $4027.78... (sheesh!) I always wanted one of these when I was a kid. Wasn't it about $2k new? Unbelievable. Classic computers and robots, the next Beanie Babies! >>-jim (the obviously overly idealistic one...) Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>

28 years

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Old Microsoft stuff...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Is there anyone who DIDN'T make a UNIX port? Apple - A/UX IBM - AIX MS - Xenix AT&T - UNIX DEC? DR? > >You mean Xenix? > Ciao, > >Tim D. Hotze > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

5
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New e-mail address

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Excuse the interruption, but if you've been using dastar(a)wco.com to send me e-mail then please note I have a new e-mail address: dastar(a)verio.com You can also always reach me at sam(a)siconic.com which will probably never change. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98]

28 years

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principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <franke(a)sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, June 21, 1998 6:30 Subject: Re: principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080) >> I agree with you completely...however evil ebay may be, at least it is a >> structured enviornment with rules and etiquette that is regulated. > >Agreed > >> I am of the opinion that some of these characters are scrounging around >> ebay and newsgroups soliciting bidders just to get out of paying the >> commission...then they invent these rediculous auction scenarios. I think >> there should be some sort of formal boycott. > >I still like sBay an similar systems. At least they secure the >process a bit - like in an ordinary auction. And auctions are, >for shure, no place for rare or most wanted items. Not VL and >not RL. But they are a good thing to get fair prices for some >unusual or common things. I bought some rare spare parts via >eBay for just cents (and a brand new never opened never used >complete Mac IIsi for less than 100 USD :). But the best hits >are always on ordinary swap markets (flea markets) (like today >*g*) - even electronic swaps tend to have high prices. > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm its just getting worse by the minute check this out from the Obsolete Computer helpline: Matt Antonellis <206-343-7576 P.S.T.> seattle, wa usa - Friday, June 19, 1998 at 18:43:02 FOR SALE: $500 rare BLACK AppleIIplus very good condition call MATT ANTONELLIS in SEATTLE 206-343-7576

28 years

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Website status?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)servtech.com> wrote: ] Hey gang! ] ] Several times during the past week or ten days I've tried to connect to the ] ClassicCmp website http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp but ] never seemed to be up. Always got a message after Netscape timed out ] suggesting the web server is either down or not responding. Anybody know ] what's happening? That's been dead for nearly as long as I've been here, about a year. And there's also that rescue-list put up by Isaac Davis, that also has been non-maintained for as long. My suggestion to everybody is to put up your own classiccmp page, and make sure you include the words "classic computer" so it can be found easily through the search engines. Or, if you are volunteering to rescue old machines, include the words "classic computer rescue squad", and include your interests, geographical area, and contact info. At one point, I was extremely tempted to put up some "official" web pages to take over for those dead pages. But then I thought about it: both of the other two who did this have vanished without a trace. Maybe I don't want to follow too closely in their footsteps. :-) Bill. ] Thanks, ] --Chris ] -- -- ] Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian ] Jamestown, NY USA ] Member of Antique Wireless Association ] URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

28 years

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COMODORE=TANDY

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Chris Halarewich <chrish(a)knet.kootenay.net> wrote: ] I was looking around at http://www.patents.ibm.com ] ] I discovered that Commodore Electronics held the ] patent for the case of the TRS-80 CoCo2(3?), which makes me wonder if ] they designed the rest of the computer for Radio Shack. ] ] Any Edgeumacated guesses anyone...anyone :) ] ] Chris Halarewich The data sheet for the Motorola 6883 Synchronous Address Multiplexor, which is the key wonder-chip in the CoCo 1 and 2, includes a schematic that accounts for about 80% of the CoCo design. The 6883 and 6847 were clearly designed to be used together, and the rest of the design was pretty much driven by that. Of course, the CoCo does have a little stuff hanging off of the two PIA's that isn't given in that data sheet. But I'd be surprised if they had gone to Commodore for that. Of course, I'm surprised enough at the patent on the case (who would need to infringe a patent to make a rectanguloid plastic box?!), so I guess the origin of the remainder of the circuit design could surprise me too... Bill.

28 years

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More additions to the Museum

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Here are some of this week's finds: 1. 3-Apple Monochrome monitors IIe 2. 8-Apple 5.25 FD 3. 8-Giltronic Selecto-switch for Apple's 4. UltraDrive 45 for Mac with all cables and terminator 5. Apple duodisk A9M0108 6. 2-Apple IIe's 7. RCA Data Terminal model UP4801 similar to C64 a all in the keyboard unit even has a Acousic coupler conection and a RJ11 phone jack built in. 8. AMPI printer model 88 9. 2-Apple IIgs one is the WOZ limited edition model. 10. A Data General/One model 2 I already had a model 1, this unit came with the power supply. 11. EPSON PX-8 model H101A notebook computer has builtin micro cassette unit missing power supply but can run on batteries. 12. Digicard shared resource expansion unit and a contoller unit for apples. 13. Corvus OmniDrive model 45MB 14. 4-Apple Color Monitor IIe 15. Box of cables all types (a large box) 16. 2-IBM RT tower units need work 17. Heathkit Microcomputer learning system model 3400 series ET-3400A 18. HP 32936A ROM Drawer 19. 3-Mac 128k kb's 20. Box VAX manuals 21. Some old HP test equipment catalogs 22. Color Classic Mac 23. AT&T Mono monitor for 6300 24. AT&T kb for 6300 KBD302 25. And many more items than can be listed here because of the 10 year rule. It was good week for me and I hope you all have had some good fines. Keep on Computing John

28 years

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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by franke＠sbs.de

>> You just searched a phon directory ? Didn't you ? Or >> who told you that I live near the Deutsches Museum ? >> True, my apartment is just 100m from the (back) entrance. >> Their _very_ early collection - up to the Zuse - ist quite >> good, but anything later is crap - or at least the display >> is crap - I left the museum society because of the computer >> displays. I'm especialy upset because they have _real_ >> unique things to show in a _unique_ way, but they just build >> some junk place. > It can't be as bad as the Science Museum in London, surely. I was there > earlier this week, and what a _joke_!!! I never been there - hmm maybe I should tak a weekend - is there a Website to get the opening hours ? > The digital computing collection seems to consist of the Pilot ACE (worth > seeing, but it's _never_ in operation), the Babbage difference engine > (again, well worth seeing), and a poor collection of random bits of more > modern machines/peripherals. Oh, thats also the best description for the 'modern' displays in the Deutsches Museum: random bits. Especialy for the small devices. >> Example: they recived a _complete_ SIEMENS 2002, the first >> fuly transistorized copmuter. Not only the main boxes - >> they got _everything_ needed to show the machine complete, >> including _all_ manuals, even spare parts. I think it would >> have been possible to rebuild this marvelous machine and >> power it up (ok, once) to show it. Maybe it is still possible, >> but it has to be done soon - right now several of the old >> tecnicans are still alive, but in ten years from now noone >> will be here to tell the story. > We've had this discussion here before. Museums are (IMHO) too interested > in preserving the fabric of a device (which is important, but not the > most important thing) rather than the operation. My guess is that in > (say) 50 years time there will be machines in museums that are still in > exactly the same condition as when they were taken out of service, but > nobody knows how to get them running again, what they were really used > for, or how to operate them. We (as in the majority of people on this > list) are doing the opposite in general. We keep machines working, even > if it means doing some non-original repairs (but we try to keep things as > original as possible). I suspect our collections and those of museums > will both be of value in the future, but for different reasons. Ok, the 2002 wouldn't be exactly the machine for continous display in action, but even if it is just as static display, this one time running test ist the best verification that the static display is _complete_. (In fact, the critical part of the 2002 is the storage drum - even back in time when it was new, every power up and down had to be guarded by tecnicans - hmm but even here, since the drum is a closed device, one could replace it (invisible) by a modern electronic emulation... just thinking) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by franke＠sbs.de

> But then you're missing all the fun of watching the drum! That's the > cool part about REALLY old machines. With them, one could still get > his hands dirty in oil, as opposed to dust. The drum was (is) capsuled. Nothing to wiew beside a big old e-motor. Gruss H. (hates exchange) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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IMSAI 8080

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

Guys: I am posting this message on the behalf of a third party. PLease contact him directly. For Sale: IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer This is the model with the switches on the front panel (non turnkey). Inside: Several memory boards Original IMS CPU Tarbell tape controller MicroComplex Phase Lock II FDC (by Frank Hogg) Video Adaptor/Keyboard Interface Outside: External Keyboard Dual Cassette drives (they look pretty strange) Dual 5.25 Floppy drives (non IMSAI) There is 'A Ton' of software for this thing, and it's supposed to run CP/M (I've seen the docs, but not the floppies). All of the boards, software, etc. have the original docs. Alot of the software is on cassette. There are also a bunch of spare boards: qty Make Model Whatizit? --- ------------- --------------------- -------------- 11 Micro Complex Phase Lock II FDC 1 North Star MDC-A2 MDC 1 Coex 64k Static RAM 1 Tanner 64k Static Ram 1 MITS 8800 CPU CPU Card 1 Solid State Music S-100 Video Interface 1 Morrow 8k RAM Module 1 WameCo EPM-2 EPROM Board 1 PolyMorphic Syst. A/D + D/A 2 Morrow/Godbout Econo-RAM 4k memory 1 STM 8k(?) RAM Board 1 Celetron Altair Board Extender 1 Vandenburg Data 16k Static Ram The seller would favor selling the whole lot. Asking price: $300 Contact: Denys G. Fredrickson denysgf(a)juno.com

28 years

5
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First personal storage media...

by franke＠sbs.de

>> At 09:25 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) did >>>you guys carry around to start out with? >>> I started with cassettes for the PETs at high school, though not as old as >>>some but still nostalgic. I still have my original first tape, though it had >>>been transfered to a new housing and snaps when a good (assertive?) datasette >>>rewinds it, it is still readable. >> First??? DECtape, 1 inch wide on the 4 inch reels from the PDP-8 in the >> OMSI computer labs. On occasion 8 level paper tape from the teletypes that >> we used to access a GE time-share system in Seattle. > Well I guess this dates me, but , 80 column punch cards. Do > not bend ,spindle or mutilate. > The only benefit was when a few years later on my advertising > distribution company was delivering a promo for a large supermarket > firm that shall go unnamed, cards that had some prizes included. > The cards were put thru an interpreter at the check-out counter > and some were winning cards if you had the item mentioned in > your basket. Since I could read the cards we pulled some of the > better prizes and presented them at different stores. > " Oh I won a Steak ? Thats great , I just happen to have one in > my basket." > We lived more dangerously in those days. Nice - I could offer 9 hole paper tape over a (modified) T100 Teletype on my Kim - before that I used paper and pencile until the program was 'finished' and than an PROM burner for archiving - superiour accestime :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, relays are a lot slower than electronic devices, and yes, they may <be less reliable. But they're not as slow as all that. They are reliable, especially the sealed ones...saves extracting bugs(moths) with tweezers(aka: Lt Hopper). Speed; the problem is cascade. I've worked with relay trees of good size and while each can do 10s of repetitions persecond tens of them in cascade can only complete one cycle in a second. To do logic like a counter using relays is slow even though the individual relays may be fairly fast. Though using s stepper relay is faster than chained relays. Allison

28 years

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principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by franke＠sbs.de

> I agree with you completely...however evil ebay may be, at least it is a > structured enviornment with rules and etiquette that is regulated. Agreed > I am of the opinion that some of these characters are scrounging around > ebay and newsgroups soliciting bidders just to get out of paying the > commission...then they invent these rediculous auction scenarios. I think > there should be some sort of formal boycott. I still like sBay an similar systems. At least they secure the process a bit - like in an ordinary auction. And auctions are, for shure, no place for rare or most wanted items. Not VL and not RL. But they are a good thing to get fair prices for some unusual or common things. I bought some rare spare parts via eBay for just cents (and a brand new never opened never used complete Mac IIsi for less than 100 USD :). But the best hits are always on ordinary swap markets (flea markets) (like today *g*) - even electronic swaps tend to have high prices. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
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wnated manuals for HP 9915

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

The title says it all. I'm looking for ANY documentation for the HP 9915. Joe

28 years

2
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What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

> Allison J Parent wrote: >><> Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels >><> Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree. >><> Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of >>> diodes and neon filled tubes. >><A good definition, I could agree, althrough I've seen >><Electric and Electronic the same, since a relay isn't >><diferent from a transistor or a tube for the effekt >><(beside the current). >> The distinction for the last two is significant from a design and speed >> standpoint. the design process is very different at the detail level. > Yah, with a relay-based system, a one-hertz clock speed would be > setting a record. Woooooosh - Your 'record' machine was just bypassed by a 1941 Zuse build from junk telephone relais. According to Zuse a multiplication took 3 seconds. A Multiply nedded 16 Machine cycls and 16/3 equals to 5.33 Hz - just - 5 times faster - calculated on cycles, but one cyle had 5 stages. Satge 1 to 3 where used for execution, while 4 and 5 are used for load and fetch - the operation fetch ocuresd simultaniously to the store. So even this early had paralell working units (didn't tried Intel to tell us that this was one of the big inventions of the Pentium - you know the processor with all the little rainbow coloured man inside instead of the usual LGM) Althrough the speed was something like 5 or 6 Hz, it is legal to speak about a clock speed of 15 to 18 Hz when comparing to newer machines. And for relay speed itself - 40 to 100 (controlled) switchings per second have been possible for pre war relais and EMS relais (technique of the 60s) are able to do up to 1500 Hz - we tried it 20 years back :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

But then you're missing all the fun of watching the drum! That's the cool part about REALLY old machines. With them, one could still get his hands dirty in oil, as opposed to dust. >>> who told you that I live near the Deutsches Museum ? >>> True, my apartment is just 100m from the (back) entrance. > >>> Their _very_ early collection - up to the Zuse - ist quite >>> good, but anything later is crap - or at least the display >>> is crap - I left the museum society because of the computer >>> displays. I'm especialy upset because they have _real_ >>> unique things to show in a _unique_ way, but they just build >>> some junk place. > >> It can't be as bad as the Science Museum in London, surely. I was there >> earlier this week, and what a _joke_!!! > >I never been there - hmm maybe I should tak a weekend - is >there a Website to get the opening hours ? > >> The digital computing collection seems to consist of the Pilot ACE (worth >> seeing, but it's _never_ in operation), the Babbage difference engine >> (again, well worth seeing), and a poor collection of random bits of more >> modern machines/peripherals. > >Oh, thats also the best description for the 'modern' displays >in the Deutsches Museum: random bits. Especialy for the small >devices. > >>> Example: they recived a _complete_ SIEMENS 2002, the first >>> fuly transistorized copmuter. Not only the main boxes - >>> they got _everything_ needed to show the machine complete, >>> including _all_ manuals, even spare parts. I think it would >>> have been possible to rebuild this marvelous machine and >>> power it up (ok, once) to show it. Maybe it is still possible, >>> but it has to be done soon - right now several of the old >>> tecnicans are still alive, but in ten years from now noone >>> will be here to tell the story. > >> We've had this discussion here before. Museums are (IMHO) too interested >> in preserving the fabric of a device (which is important, but not the >> most important thing) rather than the operation. My guess is that in >> (say) 50 years time there will be machines in museums that are still in >> exactly the same condition as when they were taken out of service, but >> nobody knows how to get them running again, what they were really used >> for, or how to operate them. We (as in the majority of people on this >> list) are doing the opposite in general. We keep machines working, even >> if it means doing some non-original repairs (but we try to keep things as >> original as possible). I suspect our collections and those of museums >> will both be of value in the future, but for different reasons. > >Ok, the 2002 wouldn't be exactly the machine for continous >display in action, but even if it is just as static display, >this one time running test ist the best verification that the >static display is _complete_. > >(In fact, the critical part of the 2002 is the storage drum - >even back in time when it was new, every power up and down >had to be guarded by tecnicans - hmm but even here, since >the drum is a closed device, one could replace it (invisible) >by a modern electronic emulation... just thinking) > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
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First personal storage media...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sorry about the white space, I'm using Lynx, as always... I agree with that! I've taken two sets of disks for Mac System 7 from a Mac Lab, and both had bad disks. OTOH, the 6.0.4 disks still work fine, probably because of the lower density. Sometimes I wonder if there's something wrong w/my drives, but they can read data written by other drives... >a month later. And yes my drive heads are clean, and the drive is set up >as per the service manual. > >Sometimes I wish I could pay more for a disk and get one that lasts. My >data is worth a lot more than $5 or whatever. > >> >> New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) did >> you guys carry around to start out with? My first exposure to storage was 5.25" disks in third grade for the Apple ][. It was old then. We were being terrorized by a moron who spent a month telling us to put disks into a sleeve. I wondered if he knew to do anything else. BTW, can a disk be damaged if taken out while it is being read from? That was a sin I had commited... > >After that came : magnetic cards on an HP41CV, 5.25" floppies (initially >on the school's RML380Z, then on my TRS-80), paper tape (I got a >non-working ASR33 and repaired it), 8" floppies, 3" floppies, punched >cards, 3.5" floppies, hard disk packs, 9 track tapes, QIC tapes. > >Of course many of those are used on more than 1 machine, and I'm only >listing the first time I used them. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
0
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Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have that program, and I have only been able to copy something so that the mac could read it only a couple of times. There is a problem of it being unable to copy a file with both sides of the fork used (i.e. you can dump everything into the resource fork, or everything into the data fork, but can't use both. Executor stores the two as separate files, it would be nice if I could tell Mac-ette to use bla for the data fork of bbb and blb for the resource fork of bbb. Alas...) >> ftp://ftp5.info.apple.com/Apple.Support.Area/Apple_SW_Updates/US/Macintosh/S >> yste >> > m/Older_System/ >> > >> > Of course you need a functional Mac to make the floppies. If you have >> both >> > hard drives, simply make sure the SCSI ID's are set to different numbers, >> > and either leave both in the machine, or copy the 40Mb drive to the >> larger >> > one. Another more expensive alternative would be to get a external >> CD-ROM >> > and a copy of MacOS on CD. >> >> Umm.... If there has any method to build up the Mac Discs on a PC?? > >Yes, there is a free(?)/share(?)ware program named MAC-ETTE that will >format, read, and write the 1.44mb Mac disks. The problem that most of >us non-Mac yokels have is trying to figure out what goes in which fork! > >You should be abble to find it with a Web search. > > - don > > >> Yours, >> Ken Yaksa >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
0
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First personal storage media...

by jfedorko＠virtualadmin.com

At 09:25 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote: > >New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) did >you guys carry around to start out with? > [Joel Fedorko] Mid-Late '70s - Punch Cards (80 col) for the IBM box Paper tape for various HP & DEC boxes (with upgrades to mylar in the later years), tape cartridges for the HP2645A Mini Data Station, tape cassettes for a TI? terminal, DECtape PDPs, LINCtape (relative of DECtape) DEC, DG, Varian, Perkin-Elmer, Altair Late 70s early 80s 9 Track tape dominated across the board 8" floppy for micro's Brief encounter with the 96 column System 32 punch card 40 Meg disk pack for HP3000 (forget drive part#, it was made by CDC?)

28 years

1
0
0 0

What is the first computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels <> Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree. <> Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of <> diodes and neon filled tubes. < <A good definition, I could agree, althrough I've seen <Electric and Electronic the same, since a relay isn't <diferent from a transistor or a tube for the effekt <(beside the current). The distinction for the last two is significant from a design and speed standpoint. the design process is very different at the detail level. Allison

28 years

4
3
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First personal storage media...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk Subject: Re[2]: CP/M > Likewise the Commodore 8-bitters. In the early 1980s, I was one of the > first in my school (I was 14 or so at the time) to own a floppy disk > (yes, a disk, not a drive). Gosh what memories, did you lug around a box of cassettes too??? Yeah, disks back then were about $5.00 (US) a shot [not to be confused with ammunition in previous off topics, though I can wield a mean VIC-20] for the cheap SS/SD ones. New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) did you guys carry around to start out with? I started with cassettes for the PETs at high school, though not as old as some but still nostalgic. I still have my original first tape, though it had been transfered to a new housing and snaps when a good (assertive?) datasette rewinds it, it is still readable. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years

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News Article

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

A large circulation (100,000) alternative publication in Toronto has run several Chiapas-related articles the last couple of weeks. for the latest check out http://www.now.com/issues/current/News/feature2.html They are slightly left of center and have a large influence among younger people. ciao Larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

28 years

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First personal storage media...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) <>you guys carry around to start out with? <> 8 level paper tape, boces/lirics PDP-8I timeshare system 1969 DECTAPE BOCES/LIRICS PDP-10 (tops-10) timeshare system 1970 MITS ACR casette(300baud), 1975 2400baud NRZ using audio cassette hardware (homebrew)late 1975 4800baud FM using audio cassettes early 1976 DRUM memory (real ugly four track, stored 32kb) NS* microfloppy (5.25 sa400) late 1976 Just a few I've played with... Allison

28 years

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fire control computers?

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> said: >Do you have any diagrams of the mechanical fire control computers? Try going to your local Federal building and look for the Goverment Book Store. There you can find many different military training manuals. Look for Navy manuals for Fire Control Technician 3 and 2. If you can find it, it should have plenty of information on mechanical fire control computers (At least they did 30 years ago). I'm sure the Navy still uses these kind of computers on older ships with 5" guns. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

28 years

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First personal storage media...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 18, 21:25, Larry Anderson wrote: > Yeah, > disks back then were about $5.00 (US) a shot [not to be confused with > ammunition in previous off topics, though I can wield a mean VIC-20] for the > cheap SS/SD ones. I recall being one of the first at the college I worked at then, to own floppies. I remember the price was a few pounds each around 1980, and one local supplier sold them to students one at a time. Unfortunately (for the dealer) not all the staff realised the price was per floppy, not per box-of-10, and a few of us reaped the benefit of that. I still use some of those disks in an Apple ][. > New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) did > you guys carry around to start out with? Most of my early computing was done on machines that used punched cards or paper tape, but I didn't often get to keep the cards, and sadly I have no cards or paper tape now. The first thing I carried about regularly was cassette tape (CUTS format). BTW, DECtape is 3/4" not 1" as Jim suggested (slip of the pen?). I still have some, but alas no deck to read it on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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ATT 6310

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 06:30 AM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> I have found a AT&T 6310 PC box. Can anyone tell me anything about it? Is it >> 10 years old, yet? It is heavy enough I'd thought it had a large >>linear supply in it, but only a switcher ps! It was made in Italy by >> Olivetti, as mentioned on the 6300 thread. > >Thats a 10MHZ 80286 box which was one of the last Olivetti AT&T PC's. > >Bill > Would anyone like it? Otherwise, I may find a use for it as a case or "parts" set, as radio collectors say (I actually like to build old radios as another hobby), as I don't have a keyboard, etc. for it. It would have to be a pickup, as it weighs about 40 lb, (18kg)! I live in So. California, Manhattan Beach. -Dave

28 years

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Another Atari Achievement...

by mor＠crl.com

This is one for the, "You can't do squat with those dumb old computers" file... I picked up a book at a thrift today, called, NEW HORIZONS IN AMATEUR ASTRONOMY by Grant Fjermedal (C) 1989. Before I got out of the first chapter I read this excellent little tidbit: "...David Gedalia, of California's San Fernando Valley, attracted a lot of attention by day and night with his 10-inch reflector on a servo-controlled Dobsonian mount. This was set up near the back of his pickup truck on the upper field, and on the tailgate of the truck was a simple 64K Atari 800 computer running a star finding program that Gedalia had written himself. He had all the objects from Messier (the classic catalog of 104 prominent galaxies, nebulae, and other objects identified in the late 1700s) and several hundred other objects from the more voluminous New General Catalog. It was so nice at night to see him enter a Messier number, hit "Return" and listen to the purr of the servos as they positioned the object right in the center of the eyepiece field..."

28 years

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Help with Mac Classic

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: mbg(a)world.std.com (Megan) > Subject: Need help with Mac Classic > > My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent. > I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this. > > - Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic? > 68000 processor 1 to 2 megs of RAM > - What options are available for it? > You can add up to 4 megs of RAM assuming you have the extra RAM expansion card if not you have 1 until you locate the card to plug more SIMMs in. There are a few accellerators (such as the MicroMac) but they are not all that much faster when you get down to serious work. No expansion, no color... :/ It will get you crawling on the internet with B/W Mac Web and Eudora though. You can get printers (apple ImageWriter, Stylewriter or Stylewriter II, anything later wouldn't work or a Parallel printer using a PowerPrint interface), external modems, extra drives, some decent educational programs, decent applications (I recommend Claris Works 2 or 3) etc. for it, there is still some usefullness in it. > - Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse? > Can I get along without one? Barely, assuming you can activate the mousekeys (if the extension is in your system) by pressing SHIFT-COMMAND-[KEYPAD]CLEAR, then you have the keypad numbers to move the pointer and the 5 as a mouse button. I would really recommend a mouse, thrift stores or used computer shops are a good try at first, if not you can find used mice available somewhat reasonably on the internet like in news:misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc > > - Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?) > You can download it from the Apple site (www.apple.com) up to system 7... You would be best to get 7.1 (no higher, it will bog down your 68000/4meg unit too much) also available from resellers. System 7 is the minimum for somewhat decent (read painless) internet access. A Classic II is a much more capable machine... :/ > Any and all help appreciated... > Lemme know if you have any more, I still deal with them from time to time at work (I don't think too much longer though I think most of our organization will be color Macs and 'those other computers' soon... (=)) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years

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First personal storage media...

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 09:25 PM 6/18/98 -0700, Larry Anderson wrote: > I started with cassettes for the PETs at high school, though not as old as >some but still nostalgic. I still have my original first tape, though it had >been transfered to a new housing and snaps when a good (assertive?) datasette >rewinds it, it is still readable. I too started with cassettes, but in my early years it was Apple II and Commodore VIC-20/C-64/C-16 tapes. A friend of mine (the owner of the C-16) didn't have a datasette. He's pretty artistic; he'd sit there for hours, plotting graphics through BASIC to the screen, only to lose it all when the power was offed. He did have a VCR though, and would record the images on VHS tape. (I wonder what he ever did with that tape, anyway?) - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

28 years

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More stuff acquired

by fmc＠reanimators.org

jon(a)techniche.com (Jon Healey) wrote: > I went back to the surplus store today and picked up > the old HP system that was there. This was not as simple > as it sounds. The system was wired into a 5 bay 19" rack > assemblage. It reads to me like what you got was the *processor*. And I have to wonder, why did you take it out? OK, I understand for transport but you also wrote that there was an expansion card frame (which might have more I/O cards) and other units in the rack. They may not be essential to operation of the processor but they probably do go together. Processors ain't everything ya know. > The item obtained is an "HP 2100S Microprogrammable Systems Computer". > It looks just like the 2100A shown at: www.trailingedge.com > > The card cage is fully populated but I haven't a clue at this > point with what, with the exception that I already know it does > have an async card (with associated moniter) and a GPIB > card (and cable). OK. If you take the top off, the cards in in the wider cage right behind the front panel are the CPU proper (in slots 1-7 I think, with options in 8 and 9 and maybe 10, though I may be off by one or two here -- it's been a while since I looked) and the I/O interfaces. The cards in the narrower cage about halfway back are memory (core) and drivers for same. The not-card-cage areas contain power supply and fans. There should be part numbers and legends on at least some of the card ears that give some clues what the cards are/do. Also the cards themselves will often have part numbers etched. Of course I don't have my books handy so can't post a handy decoder chart just now (and doubt it would be complete even if I did). Feel free to post a list, then sit back and watch us guess what you've got. Given that this one says "Microprogrammable" on the front panel I wonder if it has the WCS (Writable Control Store) option. All that said...the 2100 is a second-generation HP mini from 1972, the follow-on to the 2116/2115/2114 and predecessor to the 21MX that came later in the 1970s. These processors formed the basis of the HP2000 time-shared BASIC and HP1000 real-time computer lines, as well as many other special-purpose computer systems that HP developed and sold. Overall they are a 16-bit two-accumulator architecture; the 2100 is part hard-wired part microcoded with room for growth in the microcode, while the earlier 2116/2115/2114 were purely hard-wired processors. > Anyone interested in trading something for this beast? > > The biggest problem I see is that this thing weights > about 100 lbs. It would be expensive to ship. I'm interested but am thinking that you're in New Hampshire and I'm in California. Shipping is possible but you're right, you can't just toss this in a cardboard box with some peanuts or bubblewrap, so if someone closer by says the magic words ("I'll come pick it up") or you decide you want to keep it I'd say go for it. Besides, I'd want you to go back for the rest of it. Foo, I want you to go back for the rest of it *anyway*. -Frank McConnell

28 years

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Couldn't be more OT if it tried! Re: (OT, in a way...)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-17 22:37:02 EDT, you write: << I have a model 80 with built in SCSI that won't survive the next trash pick up! My neighbor just pitched his model 70. I didn't bother to take it out of the trash! I have a LOT of PCs that are a lot older than any PS-2 ever made! Altair -1976, IBM 5100 - 1977, HP 9100 - 1968, lots of HP 9815s, HP 9825s and HP 85s from the '70s. You left out the idiotic micro-channel bus! Joe >> well, so you dont like mca. that's fine, but the 8580 didnt come with scsi built in. the hard drive in it was ESDI. the premium series had built in scsi on the planar. let me correct myself in saying that my model 77 will certainly outlast any IBM-PC compatible machine of its era. please note that i am comparing MCA to ISA here. im not disparaging any other type. david

28 years

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Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by yaksaken＠hkstar.com

Hi there... > Actually you can get copies of 6.0.x and 7.0.x from one of their FTP sites > ftp://ftp5.info.apple.com/Apple.Support.Area/Apple_SW_Updates/US/Macintosh/S yste > m/Older_System/ > > Of course you need a functional Mac to make the floppies. If you have both > hard drives, simply make sure the SCSI ID's are set to different numbers, > and either leave both in the machine, or copy the 40Mb drive to the larger > one. Another more expensive alternative would be to get a external CD-ROM > and a copy of MacOS on CD. Umm.... If there has any method to build up the Mac Discs on a PC?? Yours, Ken Yaksa

28 years

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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by franke＠sbs.de

>> >>Hard, I own 2 Robotron PCs (one Z80 CP/M system and one PC Clone), >>but since I live in Muenchen (:), I'm not in the 'native Environment' > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>of Robotron clasics. But maybe I could forward your questuons to some >>east German friends. > Well, Hans, I *thought* you had to be Bavarian (Bayerische)!! Either that > or perhaps Austrian because of your signoff ("Servus"). You're the first US citicen to recognize this :) > Will be over again in one year or more. Great - give me a call (or a mail :) and I'll show yo usome of my babys. > Great to have you on the list as I've not seen > postings of yours since the time I had joined last November until recently > I think. I just joined two weeks ago after Sam Ismail pointed me to the list (we had some discusion about VCF - I will come to see it - and other strange things). > Good to have a person in our group who is nearby to the Deutches > Museum who seems to have a very good early computer collection (saw it in > 1994 or 95. Been there four times since '93). You just searched a phon directory ? Didn't you ? Or who told you that I live near the Deutsches Museum ? True, my apartment is just 100m from the (back) entrance. Their _very_ early collection - up to the Zuse - ist quite good, but anything later is crap - or at least the display is crap - I left the museum society because of the computer displays. I'm especialy upset because they have _real_ unique things to show in a _unique_ way, but they just build some junk place. Ok, I have to be fair - the dispaly is quite amazing, but in my opinion they ignored a lot of one-of-a-kind chances just to finish it for the grand opening. Example: they recived a _complete_ SIEMENS 2002, the first fuly transistorized copmuter. Not only the main boxes - they got _everything_ needed to show the machine complete, including _all_ manuals, even spare parts. I think it would have been possible to rebuild this marvelous machine and power it up (ok, once) to show it. Maybe it is still possible, but it has to be done soon - right now several of the old tecnicans are still alive, but in ten years from now noone will be here to tell the story. Oh, next time when you visit the Deutsches Museum, take a look at the Operator desk of the 2002 - you'll find a burned spot, done by a cigarette. I know the guilty one - a friend of mine, now retired, did it while they tried to find a power up problem at the main drum - he acidently left his cigaret at te desk and got so involved that he forgot it - BIG trouble. > Wish I knew enough German to > actually speak it but Bayerische is even harder to understand ;) Amazing - I always had problems the other way. > Gruss! Bis spaeter, Chris Jo bis nacha. Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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Need help with Mac Classic

by mbg＠world.std.com

Thanks VERY much, Bill... I am interested... Megan

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

>>I never heard of it, but maybe he thought about some >>machine in his time as Imperial Mathematician in Prag >>(1601..1612 - nice history on >>http://www.kepler.arc.nasa.gov/johannes.html >>) - but afaik the idea of calculating machines >>did recive more attention (althrough more seen >>as scince fiction) after the invention of the >>Taschenuhr by Peter Heinlein (15something). > I've never heard of the Taschenuhr. Can anyone tell me more or direct me to > a source of information? Taschenuhr -> fob watch. Peter Heinlein did the first clock small enough to fit in a pocket. It had the size of a big egg. I don't remember the exactr year, but I think it was in the first half of the 16th century. There are a lot of legendary stories around this device - inclundig the one that his whife had destroyed the first one, since she belived that this thing, going tick-tack must be devils work (remember 16th and 17th century was a or better _the_ high time of witch hunting and dark religous belives - Kepler for example had to defend is mother somewhen in the 1620s agains a triel of witchhood). So she destroyed his masterpice, and he let himself imprisson for the next few month in the city prison, to build a new one without beeing disturbed :) Building small time devices had an impact to trade like calculating machines in the early days of this century. Starting from coach clocks for merchants who lead their 'empire' from their coaches, until fob watches. in the 15th/16th century coach clock was an enormous expensive device - even compared th the expensiv travling coaces, a coach clock could cost up to 5 times the coach ! (Like wehn I put a new Server in my old car :) Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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Website status?

by cfandt＠servtech.com

Hey gang! Several times during the past week or ten days I've tried to connect to the ClassicCmp website http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp but never seemed to be up. Always got a message after Netscape timed out suggesting the web server is either down or not responding. Anybody know what's happening? Thanks, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

28 years

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Location, location, location! was Re: More stuff acquired

by jon＠techniche.com

I think the attached was directed at me.....and deservingly so. The HP 2100S is at my offices in Manchester, NH. We're right across the street from the airport. You could just fly in pick it up, carry it on (yea sure) and be gone in a flash. Jon >At 02:24 PM 6/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > > Everything except where it is! > >

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> Ooh! Not so fast! Is it straight, helical, worm or hypoid? Or an >> eliptical gear even? But yes, a gear is easy to rconstruct from its >> wreckage. > > Well, obviously one replaces with the correct type of gear! > >> Some cams and levers, though, have quite tight tolerance >> spikes and notches which it is quite difficult to get right from seeing >> the bent/broken ones. > > Impossible, sometimes. What if a special "hump" on a cam is so worn down > that one cannot reconstruct its shape? Some of the correct "shape" could > exist as aluminum powder. That's what I meant. Tony was saying - and rightly so - that while you can often see what a failed mechanical part was meant to be like by studying the failed component, and can then cut a new gear (the assumption was the gear isn't a standard part) / lever / cam or whatever, you can't possibly tell what a dead chip was meant to do just by looking at it. Likewise you can't tell what the value of that charred resistor used to be... I merely pointed out that with some tight tolerance cams and levers, you have a similar problem - you can't tell by looking. "Difficult" in my line above was a euphemism for "no hope" >> Bearing in mind Tony's, Sam's and others' comments on intermittent >> faults and the like, yes, up to a point. Video is not the only >> exception, though - other things (e.g. disk drives) can suffer >> similarly. > > No, not disk drives. Sure, some analog circuitry in a drive might go sour, > but those faults would result in bad data. With a working drive, you want > correct data, and if you do not get it, something is wrong. There is no > tolerance. With an analog system, you have to expect that the output data > will not be perfect. For example (also a magnetic recording medium), > playing back a signal will never be the same as what was recorded, due to > noise and distortion. True, every word. But if you draw the distinction there - digital vs. analogue circuitry - the comment to which I was replying deserves your reply as well. The previous poster (wasn't you, William, was it?) drew the distinction at a higher level, and said something like "a digital _machine_ either works or it doesn't. Apart from video, the results are either right or wrong. With analogue/mechanical, things can be slightly out but the machine will go on working" Video is another analogue subsystem in a digital machine, just like a disk drive, and all that that implies... BTW, video may not make the change from digital to analogue until actually in the monitor, but the same applies - that which you see on the display is (at the digital level) either right or wrong. It is only when you get to the analogue bit that it is merely fuzzy. Philip.

28 years

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FS: (cheep!) HP Controller 362

by higginbo＠netpath.net

I've got this Hewlett Packard Controller 362 and have no need for it. Anyone want it for the price of $5+shipping? It's about the size of a "pizza box" workstation, heck, I think it is a workstation. Boots up to something unix-like, has built-in VGA, 2mb memory, and a slot on the front for a 3.5" 1.44mb floppy drive, which I needed to scavenge for another machine. It weighs about 15 lbs. and I live in North Carolina, so shipping might be between $10-$15 depending on where you live. Features: HP-IB Keyboard connector, RJ-45? RS-232 Parallel HP-IB 98624A Card installed in the back, apart from the built-in HP-IB. Powe button on the front. I couldn't test it out too thoroughly, I did have a monitor to boot it up with, but no keyboard. Oh, and there's no HD inside the unit. I guess it takes an external HP-IB drive. If anyone wants it, first private response gets it. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

28 years

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Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

for compact mac goodies, check out www.eden.com/~arena/jagshouse i believe therewas some older system software there as well as some interesting programs. be sure to get and run despair.sit; its the best one. lol. david

28 years

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Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by yaksaken＠hkstar.com

Hi there... > If you still have the 40mb drive, set it for an ID other than 0 and > connect it also. Then simply drag the system folder from the 40 to the > new one. This assumes that the 40 had 7.5.x, of course. > > - don Don, Which is 7.5.1 in the 40M HDD... But, if there has any way for me to get a 7.5.3 diskette version?? 7.0 is just.... Umm.... Yours, Ken Yaksa

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

>> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of >> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623. > Johann Kepler tried to build some kind of calculator too I think. I never heard of it, but maybe he thought about some machine in his time as Imperial Mathematician in Prag (1601..1612 - nice history on http://www.kepler.arc.nasa.gov/johannes.html ) - but afaik the idea of calculating machines did recive more attention (althrough more seen as scince fiction) after the invention of the Taschenuhr by Peter Heinlein (15something). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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CP/M

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

> I think that there are some exceptions to that Tony. The following is a > clip from some correspondence with Chuck Guzis at Sydex a while back: > > "Another topic that I'd like to see some commentary on is how people > have handled those old diskettes that lack the Index Address Mark > information, such as those used on the Cromemco C10. On a PC > controller, the first sector on a track on such a diskette usually falls > to be seen by the FDC because it falls in the "blind spot" (ostensibly > PLL sync-up time) of the 765-family chip. Have you tried using a controller that doesn't need the Index Address Mark, such as a WD1772 or a NatSemi DP8473 ? > "But 3.5" diskette drives are too difficult to modify. We've had good > read and write results by passing the index signal through a 1-shot > carefully adjusted to trigger slightly ahead of the actual index > position. But this is a very touchy arrangement, though it does work. But the Index Address Mark isn't part of the spec for 3.5" disks. I know most PC controllers put it there, but it's not in the Sony spec, and some controllers (see above) will work fine without it. > I know that I have experienced the problem of the first paragraph on more > than the C10 disks. > - don -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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More stuff acquired

by jon＠techniche.com

Hi, Well this just goes to show how innate this collecting behavior is or maybe I could blame it on altruism? I went back to the surplus store today and picked up the old HP system that was there. This was not as simple as it sounds. The system was wired into a 5 bay 19" rack assemblage. The item obtained is an "HP 2100S Microprogrammable Systems Computer". It looks just like the 2100A shown at: www.trailingedge.com The card cage is fully populated but I haven't a clue at this point with what, with the exception that I already know it does have an async card (with associated moniter) and a GPIB card (and cable). I don't know what condition this is in other than the whole rack of equipment looks like it was decomissioned while still working. Most parts were still wired up. It hadn't been plundered (one or two rack slots were newly emptied). This unit appears to be in good shape. No dents or bent edges. One of the front switch covers is missing (these look like they pop off for lamp replacement). I even have the key for the power lock, an obvious indication that it has been taken care of! There was another expansion card frame in the same rack. Similar box but with no front panel switches. I didn't get this. It is probably still available. I also didn't get any of the i/o card edge connector cables that connect to the other equipment in the 5 bay unit. As it was it took me over an hour to extract this thing from its nest. I did take the GPIB and async i/o cables. Anyone interested in trading something for this beast? The biggest problem I see is that this thing weights about 100 lbs. It would be expensive to ship. Jon

28 years

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HP 9825 configurrationss

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:50 AM 6/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Doug wrote: > > >Fixing my stuck "execute" key looks like it'll be a bastard too. It's not >stuck, the "snap" mechanism appears to be simply gone (not easily >explained since the keyboard appears to be a tight sandwich). I hope that >key isn't important in the big scheme of things, but I have a nagging >suspicion that it's needed to program. Yes, it's important. You press it to execute an expression immediately. You press ENTER (or STORE? I haven't used it in a while) to enter the expression into a stored program. Joe

28 years

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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater ar

by franke＠sbs.de

> HRK wrote: Ups :) >>>>Speaking of big iron, if anyone runs across any arcade machines in my >>>>general area, like within 300-400 miles, I WILL pickup. Looking for mostly >>>>80's era games, like the old Atari vectors (Tempest, Asteroids, Battlezone, >>>>etc.) but will take just about anything. >>> And if you know of a robotron in the SF bay area available for cheap, >>> 4-6hours of sleep per night is way too much anyway... 8^) >> Robotron ? >> Talking about the East German Computers ? > [falls on floor laughing] > No. He is talking about video games. > I made exactly that mistake about a year ago - someone mentioned that he > liked Robotron, and I immediately jumped in asking for info about East > German computers! (only to back out, somewhat embarrassed, a few > messages later) Shure, the context is prety clear - I just couldn't resist :) > I have, it seems, the front panel and associated logic from a Robotron > [can't remember the model number]. I bought it on holiday in Munich, > sorry, Muenchen, a few years ago (picture the scene: eccentric hacker > with estate car (station wagon) full of kit, GB plates on the back, > trying to get through customs at Strasbourg. I got so exasperated that > when they asked, "etes-vous espion?" I said "mais oui!") rotfl. > But what I was really wanting to say was, at last someone else who's > heard of the East German Robotron! Do you have any info about them, > what they did, when they did it, specific machines? Is there the > remotest chance that if I post the model number of my stuff you can find > me docs on it? Or tell me where to find docs on it? Hard, I own 2 Robotron PCs (one Z80 CP/M system and one PC Clone), but since I live in Muenchen (:), I'm not in the 'native Environment' of Robotron clasics. But maybe I could forward your questuons to some east German friends. Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, but Apple ][ disks are not readable on hardsectored controllers <either. You couldn't take a disk from an Apple ][ and read it on a NS* or <a Z17. Actually the NS* contrller and the apple one are very close in that they are minimalist. The NS controller can read media without index/sector as years back I wrote a driver that did track read and writes for to see if I could use softsector media. I had to lay down a lot more marks thats all. The basic NS* read and write counts sectors, then waits for a sync byte and then reads. What the NS* controller cannot do is create the various marks that have missing clocks. Allison

28 years

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CP/M

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> C'mon. Even I basically know this one. A hard sectored diskette has tiny > little holes (IIRC, near the inside), so that the computer would move from > one to the next in a mechanical manner (hardware), while MOST soft sectored > diskettes had a single hole used for refference. From there, it would just > spin around, and control the rest by software. The Apple II, however, > COMPLETELY ignored this. It could use hard sectored or soft sectored > diskettes, or even diskettes with no little hole at all. It was completely > software driven. Likewise the Commodore 8-bitters. In the early 1980s, I was one of the first in my school (I was 14 or so at the time) to own a floppy disk (yes, a disk, not a drive). I had heard of "flippy disks" with two index holes, which you could turn over, thus using both surfaces in a single sided drive. But I didn't realise you needed to give it a second index hole. So I just cut a second write-permit notch and turned it over. It worked! Commodore 4040 didn't use the index hole! Philip.

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

><> And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages ><> I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. ><> [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the ><> circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts ><> directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] > Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels > Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree. > Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of > diodes and neon filled tubes. A good definition, I could agree, althrough I've seen Electric and Electronic the same, since a relay isn't diferent from a transistor or a tube for the effekt (beside the current). Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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Robotron

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Sorry, folks. We have some intermittent mail problems here and I accidentally got set to POSTPONE again. If Hans Franke (or anyone else) has posted a reply to my Robotron query, please send me - privately - another copy. Address, Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk Thanks. Philip.

28 years

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Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by franke＠sbs.de

> Recently, I just got an old Mac IIci, which has 40M HDD & 8M RAM. After > all, I added the RAM to 32M, and also want to change the stupid 40M SCSI > HDD to a larger one.... But the problem is, I just can't find a diskette > version of Mac OS 7.5.x for it... What can I do...?? > If anyone has the old Mac OS, would you all pls make a copy for me?? I will > pay the shipping and diskette cost..... (Coz, I don't think if I can get a > new copy from APPLE.. :( ) Buy a external SCSI CD-ROM and install from CD - they should be sill availabe at Apple dealers (the CDs) - maybe they even give the CD away for free. Maybe they even lend you the CD drive for a small fee. The other solution is just to keep the 40 MB drive and use it as boot drive or, third solution, just use it once paralell to copy the system folder. If you plan to use the ci futher, a CD is a must to auire new soft. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

>> The first programable general purpose computer is for shure >> the Z1. And the first electronic computer is the Z3 since >> the Z1 was just mechanical. Also both are the first binary >> floating point computers (Babage used decimal wheels). > Hey! They can't both be the first floating point binary machine! > Presumably the Z1 was. Z1 first computer, first floating point and binary computer but mechanical. Z3 the same (but better) and electronical. > And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages) > I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. > [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the > circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts > directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] Different definition: In mechanical computers (and calculators) the information is proccessed and transported by mechanical actions/things - like wheels or pushin/pulling bars. In electronical computers information is processed and transported by flow of electricity. So the Z1 is pure mechanical (the only electrcal component was (is) the motor to drive all bars), while the Z3 is electronical. The Z2 was in fact a mixed up - The storage memory was mechanical (used from the Z1) but the CPU was electronic (Relais). You see ? There are mix ups already in the early evolution - Zuse even thought about using tubes instead of relais, but they have been way to expensive. Later on there have been again mixed ups. Relais + mechanical + tubes - or Tubes plus transistors + relais ... and so on. (Oh and even my APPPLE ][+ was a mixed up - he utilized a relay on the 80 colum card for switching :) > Was the Z3 like the Z4 in using old 35mm cine film for punched tape? > (don't try and read it with an optical reader!!!!) Never heard of opto-mechanics ? *g* In fact all early Zuse computers used old cine tapes. Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4. >> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of >> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623. > What date was Pascal's calculator, someone? 1642 > Irony of the week: the > Pascal calculator in the London Science Museum is a decimal model. That > in the Deutches Museum is a Pounds, Shillings and Pence model. :-) Afaik they also own a decimal one, but Pounds, Shillings and Pence ar _way_way_way_ more exotic :) - It gets a lot more attention than 'just' decimal calculaters, althrough the difference are only some of the wheels. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of >>> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623. >> Johann Kepler tried to build some kind of calculator too I think. > Does Blaise Pascal's box count? 19 Jears to late - Pascals machine is dated 1942. But thinking again, we should define what a 'calulatoer' is for our search of the first one - Right now I prefer the definition of a macanic machine to add and subtract numbers, displayed in (decimal) digits by pointers or similar, without restrictions to special numbers. This excludes analogous calculators and special purpose thingis. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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8008 Datasheets

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 02:04 AM 6/19/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> I have a bunch of stuff on the 8008, some too much for me to easily copy >> completely, including the MCS-8 8008 Users Manual (126 pages). > >That sounds interesting. How much of that is just instruction set? If >that chapter is smallish, a copy would be great! I'm looking for info >sufficient to write a simulator, so ISA + exceptions/interrupts/etc. >should do the trick. > The stuff on instructions, timing states, interrupts, etc. is about 12 pages. The 8008 instructions (48) are simple enough that someone just learning how to write a computer program (Me back then) could understand all of them. Interesting, back then, 1973, Intel sold a simulator as a Fortran IV program, or it could be run on a time-share service. Also a cross assembler. The resident assembler took 2k - 8 1702 EPROMS for their SIM8 microcomputer board. >> In the 1976 Intel Data catalog, there is a 7 page data sheet: >> Page 1 Title and block diag. >> page 2 Photomicrograph >> Page 3 Functional pin description >> Page 4,5 Instruction set >> Page 6 Ratings, D.C., A.C. characteristics >> Page 7 Timing Diagram > >Good stuff, but I've already had one offer for a copy. Since it's small, >I'll try to get around to web-izing it. (Intel copyright lawyers be >damned! (At least until they ask me to take it down.)) > >-- Doug > -Dave

28 years

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wet disks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I just picked up a bag full of 5.25" disks, that are completely soaked by rain. How do I dry them so that a)they are usable at least long enough to transfer the software b)I run a reasonable chance of saving the labels ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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8008 Datasheets

by mallison＠konnections.com

You might want to check out the MDP-8008 Assembler Users Manual at: http://jldh449-1.intmed.mcw.edu/assembler-doc.html -Mike ---------- From: dave dameron Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 5:47 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: 8008 Datasheets Hi Doug and all, At 05:04 PM 6/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anybody have Intel 8008 datasheets that they're willing to copy for >me? I'll gladly pay for the copying/shipping. > > I have a bunch of stuff on the 8008, some too much for me to easily copy completely, including the MCS-8 8008 Users Manual (126 pages). In the 1976 Intel Data catalog, there is a 7 page data sheet: Page 1 Title and block diag. page 2 Photomicrograph Page 3 Functional pin description Page 4,5 Instruction set Page 6 Ratings, D.C., A.C. characteristics Page 7 Timing Diagram -Dave

28 years

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Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by mallison＠konnections.com

They're on the web at: www.sunrem.com Mike ---------- From: Ken Yaksa Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 2:06 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Old Mac OS.... Help PLS! Hi Pamela Allison: > If you can't find one, check with Sun Remarketing in Smithfield Utah. They will sell all the way back to version 3.2 on 400 k disks. But the problem is that I live in Hong Kong.... :(

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< <> And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages <> I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. < <> [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the <> circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts <> directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree. Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of diodes and neon filled tubes. Allison

28 years

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Inventory compaction

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> My mom got fed up by the amount of junk I have in my room, so I will > start to get rid of it (something I'd been planning to do). My girlfriend's getting fed up by the amount of junk I have in our apartment, so I'm trying to get rid of some of it, too. Shipping costs are all I'm looking for (trades accepted, too, though preferably for small things). 1. An Amdek color monitor, originally for use with Apples (I think). RCA video input, eighth-inch audio input. I've used this as a spare TV, but the screen has a strong green tint to it. It's heavy. 2. A Commodore 64, sold to me as not working, never bothered to test it. No power supply or anything. 3. A docking station for a Compaq laptop - 386/486, exact model unknown. -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu CMEL: Xavier CBEL: Xavier OH Spammers: How can you be sure that I don't live in Washington State?

28 years

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Need help with Mac Classic

by museum＠techniche.com

Hi Megan, If you're looking for a place to donate some computer (mac or otherwise), I'll take it. I'm trying to organize my personal collection in to a formal museum-like display. I'm always looking to expand that collection. At present it has 0 apple computer systems in it! I own my own software company and I am trying to do this in our warehouse area. I intend that it should remain a privately owned collection, but I'd like to open it up to public viewing, by appointment anyway. That way I could show it to groups like ham clubs, schools, software and hardware professional groups, etc. It's not a non-profit organization (in fact it's not legally any kind of formal organization, although my company informally subsidizes it), so there wouldn't be any tax write-off. Keep me in mind, Jon Healey techNiche, Inc. (603) 626-7000 >> My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent. >> I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this. >> >> - Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic? >> >> - What options are available for it? >> >> - Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse? >> Can I get along without one? >> >> - Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?) >> >> Any and all help appreciated... >> >> Megan Gentry >> Former RT-11 Developer >> > >Get in touch with me and I'll be glad to help you out. >I can cut the OS on Mac disks for you. >I also have a couple of old Mac Plus systems that I've been looking >to donate somewhere. > >I can probably dig up a mouse as well. > >Bill >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | >| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | >| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >

28 years

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8008 Datasheets

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That sounds interesting. How much of that is just instruction set? If <that chapter is smallish, a copy would be great! I'm looking for info <sufficient to write a simulator, so ISA + exceptions/interrupts/etc. <should do the trick. The instruction set is some 48 instructions and most are real simple. to make a sim you need timing, instruction set functions and a few trivial details. one thing, write in something like interpreted pascal, the 8008 was slow as the fast part did a register to register move in a whopping 10.8 microseconds. To give an idea of how slow that is the 8080 did it in 2 us, z80/4mhz in 1us, 8048 2.5us, 8051/11mhz 1us, 8088/5mhz 1us. The 8008 was slow! Allison

28 years

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CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<"But 3.5" diskette drives are too difficult to modify. We've had good <read and write results by passing the index signal through a 1-shot <carefully adjusted to trigger slightly ahead of the actual index <position. But this is a very touchy arrangement, though it does work. < <I know that I have experienced the problem of the first paragraph on more <than the C10 disks. < - don Some formats produced with 1771 or 179x can be nasty. The fix is to delay the index using two oneshots one set long (95% or a rotation) and the second long enough to provide a recognizable pulse. This trick can permit you to "move" the index sensor as needed electronically. Allison

28 years

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Need help with Mac Classic

by mbg＠world.std.com

My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent. I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this. - Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic? - What options are available for it? - Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse? Can I get along without one? - Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?) Any and all help appreciated... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years

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Need help with Mac Classic

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I'm also playing with a Mac Classic at the moment. Mine had 2Mb RAM, a 20Mb hard drive and the keyboard and mouse. I believe they are very similar to the SE, just more economical to manufacture and with a 1.4Mb floppy drive. > >My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent. >I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this. > >- Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic? Ram on the mainboard is 1Mb but there is an extender card usually fitted with another 1Mb and room for 2 X 30pin simms. I put 2 X 1Mb PC simms in it and they work fine. There is a jumper to move to do this. Well marked. 4Mb is max RAM. I replaced the hard drive with a 120Mb SCSI drive but the initialization program in the OS only works on Apple branded disks. I'm still trying to sort this out. > >- What options are available for it? > >- Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse? > Can I get along without one? You need a mouse. I have accumulated a few from garage sales etc. There are two types. You can't use the one from very early Macs, you need the one with a PS/2 size connector. Same as the keyboard, and in fact it plugs into the normal keyboard. > >- Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?) I also picked these up at garage sales. I have been told to stick with System 6 because System 7 takes up too much memory for this machine. Hans

28 years

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What is the first computer?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

HRK wrote: > A neat (english) description of the Z1 and Z3 could be found at > http://www.zib.de/prospekt/zuse/zusez1z3.html > (Hard code documentation) or > http://bang.lanl.gov/video/sunedu/computer/z1z4.html > (soft :) Thanks - I'll have a look at those! > The first programable general purpose computer is for shure > the Z1. And the first electronic computer is the Z3 since > the Z1 was just mechanical. Also both are the first binary > floating point computers (Babage used decimal wheels). Hey! They can't both be the first floating point binary machine! Presumably the Z1 was. And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages) I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] Was the Z3 like the Z4 in using old 35mm cine film for punched tape? (don't try and read it with an optical reader!!!!) > P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of > Wilhelm Schickard from 1623. What date was Pascal's calculator, someone? Irony of the week: the Pascal calculator in the London Science Museum is a decimal model. That in the Deutches Museum is a Pounds, Shillings and Pence model. :-) Philip.

28 years

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Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater are

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

HRK wrote: >>>Speaking of big iron, if anyone runs across any arcade machines in my >>>general area, like within 300-400 miles, I WILL pickup. Looking for mostly >>>80's era games, like the old Atari vectors (Tempest, Asteroids, Battlezone, >>>etc.) but will take just about anything. > >> And if you know of a robotron in the SF bay area available for cheap, >> 4-6hours of sleep per night is way too much anyway... 8^) > > Robotron ? > > Talking about the East German Computers ? [falls on floor laughing] No. He is talking about video games. I made exactly that mistake about a year ago - someone mentioned that he liked Robotron, and I immediately jumped in asking for info about East German computers! (only to back out, somewhat embarrassed, a few messages later) I have, it seems, the front panel and associated logic from a Robotron [can't remember the model number]. I bought it on holiday in Munich, sorry, Muenchen, a few years ago (picture the scene: eccentric hacker with estate car (station wagon) full of kit, GB plates on the back, trying to get through customs at Strasbourg. I got so exasperated that when they asked, "etes-vous espion?" I said "mais oui!") But what I was really wanting to say was, at last someone else who's heard of the East German Robotron! Do you have any info about them, what they did, when they did it, specific machines? Is there the remotest chance that if I post the model number of my stuff you can find me docs on it? Or tell me where to find docs on it? Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years

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Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by yaksaken＠hkstar.com

Hi Pamela Allison: > If you can't find one, check with Sun Remarketing in Smithfield Utah. They will sell all the way back to version 3.2 on 400 k disks. But the problem is that I live in Hong Kong.... :(

28 years

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