- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i've never had a problem cracking macs. needless to say, dont even try to use a screwdriver to seperate it at the seam; you'll only ruin the plastic! the first way is to remove all the screws and lay the mac with the tube down in your lap. put your hands around thebottom corners of the mac, and then use your thumbs to push against the DB connectors back there. since you're actually then pushing against the system board inside, that usually does it. if that doesnt work, on to step 2. for step 2, thread the top two screws in, but only a few turns. DO NOT tighten them down! use your torx bit tool or whatever, and then push or lightly hammer on your tool. by doing this, you're acutally applying pressure through the loosened screws to the front half of the mac. that usually pops it loose. you can apply the same technique to the bottom screws also. i've done this to all compact macs except for the classic and cc models since i dont own one. hope i explained it clearly. david In a message dated 98-06-27 21:57:49 EDT, john higganbotham put forth: << Also, seems that every compact mac I have messed with has already had the case popped (according to the marks). What do I do if I come across a virgin that's never been popped so to speak? Is it harder to get the case off? >>

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<ObCC-Q: What was the first microprocessor-based box to run Unix? < <ObCC-A: The Z8000-based Onyx C8002 in 1980. I think that missed the unix V5 or V6 varients that ran on DEC LSI-11 and 11/23(later on). Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Inventory Control (was Re: "No name" S-100 computer)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > Well, the DMV seems to have solved this problem -- I can never get my > license plate stickers off, even after 10+ years :-) Ha! I got an 8-year stack off mine late last year. Not because the adhesive let go though, the reflective paint on the plate did! But while I don't mind sticking that stuff on my license plates (after all, they're DMV property), I don't think I'd want to use it directly on artifacts! On storage bins/boxes, bags, and tags would be OK though. > And there's always good card stock tags and steel wire. Good choice, though I've been using the ones with string (vs. wire) to tag printed-circuit boards and some other things that look susceptible. > For the most part, I'm getting by > now with cardboard boxes and magic markers, but that renders my barcode > scanners useless, and it means that I usually stop short of writing the > entire contents on the box (due to laziness). Y'know, I've thought about barcode tagging a little bit, and I'm not sure how it would help, besides saving me from keying an object's item number to find the database record for this thing which I must be able to at least see, after all I can scan its barcode tag, right? > > OK, that said, the schema of my database looks something like this > [...] > > Looks good. I'll probably steal this, if you don't mind. No problem. If you have ideas for improvement feel free to share. Right now I'm thinking about whether the "notes" field should be split out into several note/memo fields for notes about relationships with other items, condition, work needing to be done, and other miscellany. That I lumped all this together in one note was part lack of knowledge about how I was going to use the note field in practice, and part architectural limitation of the in-ROM database software on the 100LX/200LX (which won't let you have more than one note field per record). > I'm a portable, wireless, and web zealot. I'll probably run the database > on one of my home Linuxboxen, which I can talk to via various > wireless-networked portables. (I have to admit that most of the wireless > portables are non-classic, but one of them is an early NEC CP/M portable > with a late 80's AirShare device.) This would free you from the memory > constraints of your HP200LX. (Did I mention that I have some PCMCIA > wireless LAN cards available for sale or trade?) Memory constraints? Don't be fooled by that "2MB RAM" logo above the screen, this 200LX has a 32MB RAMdisk daughterboard from Times2Tech. It's like having a turbo PC/XT in the palm of my hand. I'll give you points for using k00l technology to solve your problem, but I don't think it'd work for me. Most of my collection is not stored where I live, and between the storage locations, home, work, and some of the places I go in pursuit of Stuff, I think it'd be hard to pull off a "wireless LAN". They just aren't that local, nor are they line-of-sight in any way, nor are they all inside coverage areas excepting maybe cellphone coverage. Not that I care much -- my solution is aimed at answering my decaying-neuron questions, namely "have I got any of these?", "where are they?", and "are they so screwed up that I should be looking for another example?" As it happens it also will work pretty well for answering "what's in this box?" because I've got the box's ID in the location field, so can pull up all the records with a given box ID to get my answer. Well, it'd work that way if I actually had the inventory *done*. That's the other part of the problem, I think I'm less than 1/5 there, and what is done is in several pieces that correspond to various points in the evolution of this thing. The further I go, the more I learn. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

FS: OLD calculators, computers, telephones, & software.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

I'm trying to practice what I preach. I've written a book called A Guide To Collecting Computers and Computer Collectibles: History, Practice, and Technique. In it I recommend you should define and refine your collection to help maximize the pleasure you can obtain from it. Well I've decided to stick with my first love - mainframes with big control panels - and sell the rest. Sample of what you'll find in this message: o Millionaire calculators o Xerox Star o MOS Technologies KIM-1 o Convergent Technologies Workslate o Northern Telecom DV-1 telephone terminal o IBM PC LAN software. PLEASE SEND YOUR OFFERS AND QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME - NOT THROUGH THE LIST OR NEWSGROUP. P.S. I thought the Classiccomp list would like to see the calculators and telephones built into terminals also. I have the following items for sale: CALCULATORS ----------------------- Burroughs huge, black, hand crank, wide platten, 9x9 keyboard, window between front edge and keyboard, extra ribbon, Made in Canada seems to work and in good condition Egli, Hans, of Zurich Millionaires - one 16 digit (#1776) and one 20 digit (#2607) good condition Facit CI 13 working and in very good condition Friden STW Automatic Calculator with plastic cover no power cord, but in very good condition Monroe 145, made in Western Germany good condition National model 750207, 67-HX-5" huge, brown, hand crank not working, but in very good condition Remington Rand black, hand crank, wide platten not working, but in good condition HP HP-25 in original box and carrying case owner's manual, applications programs manual, quick reference guide, and ac adapter not working, but in very good condition Olympia CD 71 in carrying case with instruction booklet, ac adapter without plug to the calculator very good condition TI TI 30 with carrying case very good condition TI TI Programmable 59 Solid State Software lots of original keyboard templates, Master Library Modules, magnetic storage strips and read head cleaning strips, pocket case for templates, modules, and strips 9 calculators, but only 2 battery packs very good condition COMPUTERS --------------------- Apple III, 256K with monitor the following is all original manuals, diskettes, jackets, and boxes: o System Software, SOS, Utilities, and Emulation software and documentation. o Universal Parallel Interface and software driver, Visicalc sampler, Apple Writer III, Business BASIC, Business Graphics, System Demo, Maillist Manager, Letter Quality Printer Demo all in very good condition Apple Lisa 2 in original box only powered on twice original brochures and demos very good condition Convergent Tech Workslate original everything! working, in mint condition Data General One (2207) all original accessories and software: o carrying case, AC adapter, battery recharger, no name acoustic coupler cups, expansion adapter, DOS 2.11, Owner's Manual, Pocket Reference works in very good condition Dynalogic Hyperion 3032 - Agile OEM version (also Bytec) the following is all original: carrying case, Setup Guide, User Guide, Technical Ref Guide, Multiplan, In:Scribe, BASIC, In-Touch, Aladin working in very good condition Epson QX-10 (Q701A) no keyboard or monitor cables loaded with Valdocs software and user and developer documentation in good condition HP 150 Touch Screen PC w/9133D very good condition HP 150 Touch Screen PC w/9122D and HP-IB cable very good condition HP Portable Plus with original carrying case, AC adapter, Owner's manual IBM 5100 (C02), 5103 dot matrix printer original carrying case (weighs 60lb!) IBM 5100 binder containing: o original sales literature o original invoice o BASIC manual and 12 s/w or data tape cartridges works, but keyboard has problems very good condition IBM PCjr in large IBM attache case includes original AC adapter, TV Receiver VHF Terminal, Operating Instruction manual, and sampler diskette. MOS Technology KIM-1 original everything! in mint condition Modular Micros Zorba (Gemini GC-200) (div of Modcomp) works, very good condition North Star Horizon very good condition Xerox Star (8010) not working displays xxx msg very good condition Zenith ZFL-171-42 portable original carrying case and Owner's Manual, but copy of DOS 2 boot diskette. not working, in very good condition TELEPHONES ---------------------- AT&T very good condition Bynamics PhonePad original everything! not working, in mint condition IT&T InfoStation very good condition Northern Telecom Alex good condition Northern Telecom Displayphone missing AC adapter very good condition Northern Telecom DV-1 mint condition SOFTWARE ------------------- Aldus PageMaker 1.2 for Mac complete and original good condition Ann Arbor Softworks Full Paint complete and original good condition Apple MacDraw complete and original good condition IBM DOS 2.00 w/diskettes good condition IBM DOS 3.00 w/diskettes good condition IBM DOS 3.10 & 3.30 no diskettes poor condition IBM DOS 4.00 w/diskettes unused very good condition IBM OS/2 Warp Version 3 w/diskettes and CD unused very good condition IBM PC Local Area Network 1.10 complete and original good condition IBM PC Network Program 1.00 still shrink wrapped very good condition IBM PC Network Hardware Maintenance and Service complete and original good condition IBM PC 3270 Emulation 3.00 complete and original good condition IBM PC 3270 Emulation 2.00 original missing shelve good condition IBM PC/Host File Transfter and Terminal Emulator 1.10 complete and original good condition IBM BASIC manuals shrink wrapped very good condition IBM Pascal compiler complete and original good condition IBM Guide to Operations 2.02 complete and original good condition IBM Technical Reference PC very good condition IBM Proprinter maintenance manuals very good condition idd MacDraft 1.2 complete and original good condition Symantec Grandview complete and original good condition Vestronix Pro C complete and original good condition Trilogy complete and original good condition Xerox Ventura Publisher 2.0 complete and original... all 19, 360K diskettes! very good condition Zenith Z-100 PC Service Guide complete and original good condition Zenith Z-100 Disk-Based Diagnostics complete and original good condition ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf kstumpf(a)unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 (EST/EDT GMT-5)

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Mayday! PDP-11/44 Power supply

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Hi, folks, My PDP-11/44 has a power supply problem. Symptom: A rapid flashing of the 'DC ON' light, indicating (according to the users' guide) that one or more DC voltages is not up to spec. The kicker is that I have nothing in the way of service manual or maintenance print set. I'm kind of puzzled about why the thing died. It's been functioning perfectly well at St. Martins College for years, 24/7, without so much as a burp. The only thing I can think of is that this continuous running had one or more components stretched to their limit, and when I powered it on after over a month of power off, it pushed it over the edge. Anyway... I have no way of knowing even where to probe to see which voltage died. Even if I did manage to find it, that fscking power supply's about as complex as the CPU! If anyone's got service docs for the '44, and can help me out with some copies, that would be just grand. I'd also be open to troubleshooting via phone or E-mail. If you've got spare parts, of course, that would be ideal. I could swap modules until the bad one's isolated. ;-) This is one I really want to get working. Please give me a hand if you can. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 3 months

3
4
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 27, 16:50, Hotze wrote: > Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) > processors, or SGI MIPS processors. Or Acorn/Digital StrongARM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

SE30s and IIX machines- Packet monitors and Home Automation

by thomas100＠home.com

I suppose SE30s and Mac IIs are 11 years old now! Yow. I still think of antique computers as 8-bit micros- that's just my own deluded sense of history. I bought an SE30 w/ Ethernet recently for $80 through the net. The owner showed up at my office one day recently and delivered it. The next week I also bought a Mac IIx w/ 8 megs of RAM for $25 at a Silicon Valley swap meet. A friend gave me a couple of Asante SCSI <-> Ethernet adapters which can normally be had for around $20 on eBay. I hadn't figured out much useful to do with these slower machines until... I found a very nice TCP/IP, etc packet monitor that runs on these machines. The "trial" version of this product (EtherPeek) is pretty hot in itself and is worth checking out. The full version is... unfortunately $700. I wish they'd sell the demo version with the 30-day time-bomb turned off for $100 as it's already more than what I need to monitor my cable-modem connection. Oddly... the Win32 version of EtherPeek is just so-so... I should add that in the case of SE30s, these things can sit on your desk, won't get knocked off like a laptop and are available for less than $100 with an ethernet card. This is an ideal niche machine for a packet monitor! http://www.aggroup.com - you have to download the app and then wait for the password to be e-mailed to you. ---- There was an article in the May issue of Popular Home Automation which piqued my interest in acquring these machines originally. It was entitled, "What I Did With The Mac in the Closet" and features a very vancy Macintosh/BSR controller system. This system can talk to wireless speakers in every room in the house. After taking the magazine home from the store where I found it, I realized this would be a social faux-pas in my house and decided to nix the idea. The software application that drives it is "XTension" by San Hill Engineering. It might still be fun to play with since the application is scriptable and can handle motion detectors and such. The application looks pretty nice. I wonder if the motion detectors would detect the squirrels I hear are supposed to gather from time to time in my detached garage. Hmm... The only other application I tho't of for the older Macs is as a dedicated Quick-cam machine. I must admit I use them for scanning in pictures occasionally - waiting for the images to be converted to JPEG is a hassle tho'. Thomas

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 27, 9:56, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I think some drives, includeing the RZ23 have a jumper setting to spin them > up, and some PC controllers might do this for you. Some of the RZ series do have a spin-up on power-up jumper, but the RZ23 isn't one of them :-( However, as someone else (Tim?) pointed out, most workstation controllers or OSs (as opposed to PC controllers/OSs) will take care of that. I have RZs on Acorn and SGI machines, but not, oddly, on any of my DEC ones. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>> Bob was just a dumb program. > >Bob was touted by Microsoft as the way user interfaces would work from >that point on. It was seen as a way to bring computers to mere consumers, >and launched at CES with great fanfare IIRC. What exactly is Bob? I've often see it mentioned, but never with any background to what it actually does. Thanks, Tom Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years, 3 months

2
2
0 0

OS's In ROMs

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 27, 14:41, Hotze wrote: > Would it be possible to have a control chip and a OS chip? You've got the > control chip, which contains address information on the OS chip, as well as > other EXTREMELY basic ssytem info. Then you've got the OS chip, which > contains the OS. Because of the control chip, it could be as large as you > wanted it. > I've also heard of a "Windows 98 on a chip" system, with 75MBPS through > put. Sounds like the first decent way to load Windows... Well, you typically need 4 chips, since most ROMs are 8-bit wide, and most current processors are 32-bit, but allowing a little poetic licence, Windows on a chip is possible (and Windows CE is just that). > PS-Did any computers have GUI's built in? I think that I recall that > a Tandy did, but nothing else... Amiga? Archimedes/RISC PC? Atari ST/MegaST? all those have the GUI in ROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Wang Thang

by blindpete＠stratos.net

On 1998-06-27 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said: cl{On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Don Maslin wrote: cl{> Cannot help on the pinouts, but I think their monitor connector cl{>was unique. You need to boot it with Wang disks. They are in PC cl{>format, but the DOS is different. I have a set that I can copy cl{>when you get video going. cl{Great! I'll get various Kaypro stuff from you at the same time. ;) cl{Do you know what the monitor connector looks like? The only cl{possibilities are the DIN plugs on the back of the IBM Emulator cl{card. Unless the monitor was some kind of terminal that attached cl{to the serial port. cl{The 8-pin DIN plug has a little symbol next to it which might cl{represent a CRT. (It looks kind of like a pie slice.) cl{> As I recall, the IBM Emulator board really hacks the WangDOS to cl{>be more like PCDOS and it will then run many - but not all - cl{PCDOS programs. cl{Pretty big hack. A whole PC could fit on a card half that size. :) cl{> Don't believe the D-subs on the back are for monitor and keyboard, cl{>but it may be a different board than I ever saw. cl{Well, I don't know where else to put a monitor. The Wang keyboard cl{plugs into the 4-pin DIN socket connected to the machine's cl{motherboard, I can only guess what the other things are for. I'm cl{just scratching my head trying to figure out how to get a picture cl{from the thing. cl{> > The sticker on the side (top) of the machine says it's a PC-002, cl{>but the > sticker on the back says it's a PC-P002. cl{> > cl{> > The keyboard has a lot of word processing functions on it. cl{> That is what Wang really got established in. cl{Too bad the keyboard doesn't have the greatest feel. And some of cl{the keys are in the wrong places, but that's a holy war I don't cl{want to get into. ;) cl{> > Anyway, I haven't opened it up yet, or done anything with it cl{>but look at > it. Disassembly looks like it might be difficult, cl{>because I have to slip > the innards through the full length cl{>metal sleeve. I won't be up to that > until my arms recover. cl{>I've even got bruises and some kind of blood > blisters or cl{something, from carrying that thing. :/ > cl{> Stand it up on its face and lift the cover off. Everything cl{>inside is in a heavy guage wire frame. cl{Yeah, it took me a few minutes to figure it out, but it opened up cl{easily once I decided to pull from the back instead of the front. :) cl{> - don cl{Doug Spence cl{ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca cl{http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ Hi I used to have an old wang whith a 8086 cpu in it, it had a monotor whith two cords coming out of it. one was power and the other one was for the data, they both pluged into the card whith two plugs on it. the one I had used the round ps2 stile plug maybe a little bigger, like a keyboard plug. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

GOOD LORD! VARNISH?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

HOW DO YOU POUR *VARNISH* IN THE BACK OF A COMPUTER AND DON'T KNOW IT???? Just stuck my screwdriver in the back of that Mac 512, trying to open the lid and remove a sorely jammed floppy. (No, I've already tried the little button. It's jammed good.) Pull my screwdriver out - Minus the ending and COVERED IN WET VARNISH! It's all over the place! These morons DUMPED A CAN OF VARNISH in the computer, and didn't know about it! It does power on though... It comes up with the "insert a boot disk" icon. -------

28 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> 'The DMA address extension register is a 4*4 register file >chip (74LS670) at location . It supplies the top 4 bits >of the system 20 bit address during DMA cycles. Unlike the >segmentation scheme used by the CPU, the extensions address is not a >16 bit segment address which is added to the address from the DMA >controller. Therefore, DMA operations cannot cross 64K boundaries', I can half-understand that, but if you read those urban legends about a guy calling tech support because the power went out in his block (I've had personal experience - my mom thinks there is a significant difference between a TV and monitor as far as cleaning solution is concerned), I sometimes wonder how these people learn to walk :) > >Now remember the PERQ again, and think back to the start of this (long) >thread. The PERQ happens to be the first commercial machine that would >now be classed as a workstation. For that reason alone it should not be >forgotten. But few people have ever heard of it (OK, not on this list >since I do go on about it :-)), or seen one. Which comes back to the >original point. Where should the average man in the street go to see the >machines that led up to the PC he's now using (I'll assume Windows, if >only because it's the most common OS). The average man in England might get your book, the average man in the US doesn't have time. Most people just _don't have time_ to learn about curiosities, especially when such complex, multidimensional concepts are involved. And so many people already have learned to use their computers mechanically (I just turned it on and it always loaded WordPerfect...) that such knowledge would have nowhere to go. I've seen some of my classmate have trouble understanding how muscles work, because they _just do_. Also, the economic forces that partly drove this stuff could never be understood by the naive American. To bring this long rambling to a close, I don't think many people would understand such a history, though that does not mean that we shouldn't try to make them ;) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Voice recognition?? This is still evolving and has just become viable i <the last year or so. It works in a more than limited fashion, and is onl Still evolving but usable systems are getting near 10 years old! I cite DRAGON Dictate. However user independent is far away. <many different fields. MSX was a standard that was around for a time in <Europe and Japan. Thankfully it didn't catch on in the U.S. or stick <around, but like CP/M it kinda faded. Home automation is an evolving ar MSX was replace like CPM with dos and winders. Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Inventory Control (was Re:

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm just wondering - what DO you use these machines for? I guess you must have been doing it for a long time if you're using classics for it. Also, I think you should at least have an inventory of the manuals, and an inventory of each machine, ie Apple //c =1 computer =1 monitor //c =1 AC adapter =1 'getting started' guide etc, etc. That way, if you give the machine to someone, you won't leave anything out. >That could never work for me. I have a 'working' collection - machines >are often being used for real-world tasks (I don't really have a >non-classic computer), they're being investigated, hacked, tweaked, >repaired,etc. So machines rarely stay in the same place for very long. > >And while I have shelf after shelf of manuals, many of them are open on >my workbench, near this PC, etc. They're in _use_. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Old computer catalogs wanted

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Can anyone point this guy in the direction of heaps of old computer catalogs? Reply-to: Ferock(a)aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:18:00 EDT From: Ferock(a)aol.com To: vcf(a)siconic.com Subject: computer catalogs I enjoyed reading your web page. I'm also interested in old computers and old computer equipment. I collect old (1980-1990) computer catalogs. I'm especially interested in Black Box and Amp catalogs. If you know anyone who is interested in selling these items, I would greatly appreciate it if you send me an e-mail. Thanks in advance. Glenn

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I guess I missed that one. Wasn't particularly useful, though versions were used as Packard Bell's "Navigator" and a popular game called "Myst" ;) >Bob was touted by Microsoft as the way user interfaces would work from >that point on. It was seen as a way to bring computers to mere consumers, >and launched at CES with great fanfare IIRC. > If you use a keyboard. Imagine a touch screen keyboard that reconfigured itself for your task, and had an enzyme coating that broke down your skin oils to prevent stains (you'd have to take breaks, of course, to prevent skin from drying out), like in Star Trek:The Next Generation. It's farfetched, but I doubt we'll use mechanical keyboard forever. >Touch screens make you take your hands off the keyboard and leave a greasy >mess on your screen while you try in vain to do high resolution tasks with >your low res finger. Can you type while you're buried inside a router closet trying to check network cables? I sure can't... >Even in humans, voice recognition isn't great. That's why there are so >many different words for "huh?". You'll always be able to communicate >with your computer faster and more accurately with a keyboard. Supercomputers are becoming less and less common because as things get cheaper, it's no longer 'super' but 'high-power', and in two years, 'entry-level'. AI works best in parallel, so do simulations like the ones India didn't want to stick to. >The supercomputer tar pits are littered with the remains of parallel >processing companies. They go fast only for a relatively small subset of >programs. > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I LOVE that idea. Now, it'd need to be EPROM, especially nowadays with bug fixes, a new version every other day of the week, etc. but still, it's a way cool concept. Which computers did this? Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...) >>> The Mac Classic contains a complete System 6 installation in ROM that >>> you can boot from. Sorry but I don't have the docs handy, but I think >>> if you press Command-Option-Shift-X on startup, it'll boot from the >>> ROM. Another way that should work is Command-Option-Shift-Backspace -- >> >>Actually, the keys to press are: >> >> Cmd-Option-X-O >> >>That's the letter O, not the number zero. > >Wow, it has the complete OS in ROM? I didn't know any of the Mac's did >that. Are there any others or was this a one shot experiment that failed? >The OS in ROM is the main thing I like about the Atari ST's. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

28 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Most of what you list are excellent things that are not yet finished. They WILL catch on when they're done. Bob was just a dumb program. I find the touch screen comment unpleasant because I think touch screens are the key to an easy-to-use interface. Voice recognition and p.p. are in use and are gaining ground. What were bubbles, and why didn't they catch on? Ones you've missed? I think the Amiga caught on a lot less than it should have, same with the Macintosh. >BTW, I enjoy collecting over-hyped innovations that never quite >caught on in the way they were supposed to: Bubbles. Pen-based >computers. Touch screens. Wireless networks. Bob. MSX. Robots. >AI. Home automation. The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. > Voice recognition. > >What did I miss? > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Tektronix 4211???

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Anybody know what a Tektronix 4211 is? Its got an RS-232C port on the back, a DB-9 connector, two other db-25 ports, and some other connectors. Its in a desktop case and is greyish in colour. Saw it in a surplus shop so I don't have it in front of me to answer questions. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>But seriously, while _I'd_ only want to write a book that's correct and >complete (and therefore does document every last gate in the device), I >guess few people would ever want to read it. You could release it in pdf format on the internet with a $5 shareware fee, or something. I'd certainly buy it, and I'm sure lots of other people (such as the ones who subscribe to this list) would as well. The information is invaluable. Tom Owad Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

Hang her on the wall.

by drfcline＠netw.com

A piece of computer memorabilia well worth mounting on the wall or giving as a gift is a stack memory card from the UNIVAC computer. It is the LAST time the home of a bit of information could actually be seen - a tiny doughnut on a grid of wires. See it at http://www.netw.com/~drfcline/univac.htm

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>Now remember the PERQ again, and think back to the start of this (long) >thread. The PERQ happens to be the first commercial machine that would >now be classed as a workstation. For that reason alone it should not be >forgotten. But few people have ever heard of it (OK, not on this list >since I do go on about it :-)), or seen one. Which comes back to the >original point. Where should the average man in the street go to see the >machines that led up to the PC he's now using (I'll assume Windows, if >only because it's the most common OS). There's been a lot of talk of talk recently about preserving ROM images and the like so that the machines will still be usable generations >from now. But isn't the history of these machines and of how they were designed just as important as the computer itself? Who cares how much enjoyable it is to read, just so long as the information exists. Tom Owad (whom luckily, isn't knowledgable enough to write a book about classic computers :-) Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The problem being that we don't know most of that >But isn't the history of these machines and of how they were >designed just as important as the computer itself? > Who cares how much enjoyable it is to read, just so long as the >information exists. > >Tom Owad (whom luckily, isn't knowledgable enough to write a book about >classic computers :-) > >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by manney＠lrbcg.com

>Hi, > >I was wondering if there's a surefire way of telling if an IBM-PC has its >original motherboard, without opening the case. I saw one at the >Salvation Army today and was considering dragging it home (though I >decided to take another machine instead). > >The machine did have a cassette port in the back, with a femal DIN >connector. Is this attached to the motherboard? Yes, it is. > >The machine also had a full complement of cards in its slots, with lots of >ports coming out of it. And a 3.5" drive that was poorly fitted into the >case. The 3.5" drive requires a special controller card that I find rare. Snag it! > >I'm wondering if I should make a trip downtown sometime this weekend, with >the car. > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > >

28 years, 3 months

4
4
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<competitor. Most Windows CE devices run off of UNIX-style processors, a What's a unix style processor? Allison

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Can't you also tell by the BIOS date?? I seem to remember that the original PC had one of three BIOS dates: 4/24/81, 10/19/81, and 10/27/82. This in combination with looking for a cassette port should be a good way to tell. ================================== Rich Cini/WUGNET - Charter ClubWin! Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of classic computers <<========== Reply Separator ==========>>

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yep. I knew most of those. And SPARCs, PPC's, and, if you really want to go on a limb, anything that runs Linux. I was talking about processors, generally associated with UNIX, that also run Windows CE devices. Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 5:38 PM Subject: Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. > ><A processor from a company who's highest-end products are UNIX based, and ><similiar version (IE in the same family, such as Pentium is in the x86 ><family). Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) ><processors, or SGI MIPS processors. > >Then Alpha, ARM, PDP-11, VAX, 680xx and sundry others are also since they >all run unix. > >careful about retrorevisionist terminology... > >Allison >

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Wasn't the i960 (the new Fast Ethernet chip) based on 432 archeticture? < Ciao, First of all the I960 is not a new eithernet chip it's off the high end single chip micro end where the 8096 and 80860 lived. 432 based... not even close. The 432 was a data object oriented system with a very unique bus. Aimed at ADA and Pascal type languages. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<A processor from a company who's highest-end products are UNIX based, and <similiar version (IE in the same family, such as Pentium is in the x86 <family). Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) <processors, or SGI MIPS processors. Then Alpha, ARM, PDP-11, VAX, 680xx and sundry others are also since they all run unix. careful about retrorevisionist terminology... Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Wasn't the i960 (the new Fast Ethernet chip) based on 432 archeticture? Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 4:32 PM Subject: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. > ><> The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. >< ^^^^^^^ ><So you actually posess a 432 based machine? Impressive. I have only ><really heard about them in literature. Always sounded interesting. > >I have Intel docs for them. Old now, like early 80s. > >Allison >

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi John, RZ23 = 104 MB RZ23L = 121 MB cheers, emanuel

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

><competitor. Most Windows CE devices run off of UNIX-style processors, a > >What's a unix style processor? > > >Allison A processor from a company who's highest-end products are UNIX based, and a similiar version (IE in the same family, such as Pentium is in the x86 family). Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) processors, or SGI MIPS processors. Ciao, Tim

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I've got two Digital RZ23 3.5" SCSI drives I'd like to find some more >info on. I basically need the specs (cylinder, head, size, etc.) and >jumper settings. Anyone got anything? If you go to Seagate's website (www.seagate.com) you can find pages for conner drives... it'll have graphics which show the positions of jumpers. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. < ^^^^^^^ <So you actually posess a 432 based machine? Impressive. I have only <really heard about them in literature. Always sounded interesting. I have Intel docs for them. Old now, like early 80s. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've got two Digital RZ23 3.5" SCSI drives I'd like to find some more inf <on. I basically need the specs (cylinder, head, size, etc.) and jumper <settings. Anyone got anything? The RZ23 (there are two different ones) are either 105 or 120mb SCSI drives. The group of three(6pins, arranged 2x3) are the address. Check the various vax archives for more specs. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Would it be possible to have a control chip and a OS chip? You've got th <control chip, which contains address information on the OS chip, as well <other EXTREMELY basic ssytem info. Then you've got the OS chip, which <contains the OS. Because of the control chip, it could be as large as yo <wanted it. Check out the IRMX-86 and the 8213x chips... beenthere done that about 12-14 years ago. However in real life OS is software and control is CPU so that logical partition is the norm for most CPUs. It's generally in RAM but as noted there are plenty with bom based kernals and OSs. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<u have a GRiD Compass with bubble memory, you get an OS <that acts like it's in ROM, but bubbles are writable. Lessee here. My supercrate s100 has CPM/BIOS/Monitor in rom. takes about 3sec to selfcheck and boot. I have an s100 crate with a 2mb write once romdisk of my design. I also have a z80 system with an two intel BPK72 bubble memories on. Each one give 128kb of space. All easily predate the GRID. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Would it be possible to have a control chip and a OS chip? You've got the control chip, which contains address information on the OS chip, as well as other EXTREMELY basic ssytem info. Then you've got the OS chip, which contains the OS. Because of the control chip, it could be as large as you wanted it. I've also heard of a "Windows 98 on a chip" system, with 75MBPS through put. Sounds like the first decent way to load Windows... Ciao, Tim D. Hotze PS-Did any computers have GUI's built in? I think that I recall that a Tandy did, but nothing else... -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 2:09 PM Subject: Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...)) >On Jun 26, 21:15, Hotze wrote: >> I LOVE that idea. Now, it'd need to be EPROM, especially nowadays with >bug >> fixes, a new version every other day of the week, etc. but still, it's a >way >> cool concept. Which computers did this? > >Acorn's RISC PC has the OS (RISC OS 3.7) in ROM, about 4MB IIRC. The >original Archimedes range (1987) had RISC OS 2.0 in ROM (512K, IIRC). > Usually they're mask ROMs or OTPROMs. The OS is structured as a series of >about 80 relocatable modules, so if an upgrade is required, you load the >relevant replacement module into RAM, and the kernel changes the links that >point to it. Of course, changing the kernel module itself is a little more >tricky, but it can be done -- the first RISC OS 2 upgrades had instructions >on how to boot the system from a disk to load a new "utility module". > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 26, 23:31, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Yes, LaTeX. Since it can actually be translated to other forms. A .PDF > is more or less a bitmap picture of what used to be text and is usually > unreadable -- Hell, last week at work I got an email with a .PDF > attachment that included the icon where the document said "examine the > attached bitmap" left over from its Word origin, but for some reason > clicking on that icon in the .PDF doesn't bring up the full picture. No, PDF is more-or-less PostScript. However, *some* PDF documents actually include scanned images, which of course are usually bitmaps because the creator didn't OCR them. Both PostScript and PDF files can contain text, vector graphics, and bitmap graphics. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 26, 21:15, Hotze wrote: > I LOVE that idea. Now, it'd need to be EPROM, especially nowadays with bug > fixes, a new version every other day of the week, etc. but still, it's a way > cool concept. Which computers did this? Acorn's RISC PC has the OS (RISC OS 3.7) in ROM, about 4MB IIRC. The original Archimedes range (1987) had RISC OS 2.0 in ROM (512K, IIRC). Usually they're mask ROMs or OTPROMs. The OS is structured as a series of about 80 relocatable modules, so if an upgrade is required, you load the relevant replacement module into RAM, and the kernel changes the links that point to it. Of course, changing the kernel module itself is a little more tricky, but it can be done -- the first RISC OS 2 upgrades had instructions on how to boot the system from a disk to load a new "utility module". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I think cost had something to do with it, too. Cost shouldn't have anything to do with innovation. It's really a bummer. >BTW, I enjoy collecting over-hyped innovations that never quite caught on >in the way they were supposed to: Bubbles. Pen-based computers. Touch >screens. Wireless networks. Bob. MSX. Robots. AI. Home automation. >The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. Pen-based computers, although not a BOOMING success, have had a limited success. Their gaining momentum, too. Robots? Once again, go into a factory. You'll see them at work. BTW, how rare are Androbots? Wireless networks? I've seen a fwe. But I'd like more tech behind them. Bob? He was way cool. Then he died out. Too bad. AI is very much in a state of recession, as early depressions in the 80's took all the hype out of it. I say that we saw the last of current AI's with Deep Blue last year. They'll come back, but not until 64-bit is standard. Voice recognitions much the same as AI, but with a little more life, as it actually has some practical applications that are already partially-functional. >What did I miss? Bunches of processors, lots of RAM designs, some cool hard disk systems, and PC/TV integration. >-- Doug Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Come to think of it, ALL of the Windows CE devices have their OS in ROM. *My* opinion is that for UNIX hardware, it's going to be UNIX's biggest competitor. Most Windows CE devices run off of UNIX-style processors, as that's the only way that they can get any speed inexpensively and with a decent battery life. Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 9:14 AM Subject: Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. >Doug Yowza wrote: >> >> On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Tom Owad wrote: >> >> > I belive Apple's Newtons have the OSes in ROM. They certainly do boot >> > quickly and a chip swap is need to upgrade the OS. >> >> Later Newts, including the eMate, are flash upgradable. A quick boot >> doesn't require a ROM OS, though. Windows is a slow booter even when >> ROM'd, but battery-backed RAM gives many portables an instant boot even >> with Windows. >> >> Of course, if you have a GRiD Compass with bubble memory, you get an OS >> that acts like it's in ROM, but bubbles are writable. > >Yes, and bubbles rival floppies for speed. There's a _reason_ why >that innovation didn't catch on. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_

28 years, 3 months

4
5
0 0

Inventory Control (was Re: "No name" S-100 computer)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > I'm pretty new to the collecting game, but I'm already having trouble > keeping machines, parts, software, manuals, and releated stuff tractable. > I've picked-up some barcode reading equipment with the idea that one day > I'll encode the contents of all of my boxes, and tie it to all together > with a database that include historical info, condition info, and other > notes. Doug, you live in a part of California that has a dry climate. How do you propose to affix barcodes to boxes? Are they sticky labels? Have you noticed that the sticky stuff turns brittle after a while (like, say, three years or so), and the labels become susceptible to falling off? Not that I want to discourage you, you understand. Besides, the inventory number is precious little of what I want to log, it just wouldn't save me that much typing. OK, that said, the schema of my database looks something like this at present: Number: an inventory item number. Type: a one-word description of just what sort of object is described by this record; types thus far are: Ad (advertisement or marketing materials) Article (magazine article or photocopy thereof) Book (includes manuals) HW (hardware) LST (listing) Papers Part Periodical (really should be "serial") Pkg (package - generally packaging material or a complete boxed package) Refcard Supplies SW (software) Title: title or brief description of object Author: the author Manufacturer: the manufacturer or publisher of the object. Manufacture Date: manufacture or publishing date ISBN: ISBN number LCCN: Library of Congress Catalog Number Model: model name/number Part Number: manufacturer's part number Version: version Volume#Number: Volume#number for serials Serial: manufacturer's serial number Acquisition Date: date when I got it Source: where I got it from Location: where it is now (box ID or shelf location) Home Location: where it normally lives ToDo: flag: does this need work? (see notes) Notes: free-form text notes, containing additional description, relationship to other items, work that needs to be done Dates are actually text fields, because most database software has really Procrustean date handling that wants to make everything fit its idea of a datestamp. The syntax I use goes like this: yyyy[/mm[/dd]][~] where [] surrounds optional text, yyyy is year, mm is month, dd is day-of-month, and ~ means "approximate". People's names are always in "Last, First" format. ... I say the schema is "something like this" because it is changing, again. I'm fooling around with New Software, actually several New Softwares that are all several-years-old dBase-alikes that run on my HP200LX palmtop. Prior to that it's been through several iterations, most of which are still there because I haven't re-inventoried stuff, done with Lotus 1-2-3 (one row per item) and the HP 100/200LX ROM'd database software (which has a limit of 5000 records per database that is past being a looming problem, hence me looking for new software). And yes, some of the ways I do things (like having only one note field) is due to architectural limitations of the previous software. ... Oh yeah, and how do I label boxes? Well, I use those hinged-lid plastic containers that you can get at Costco. They're sort of transparent, so I just write the box numbers on 5x8" index cards with a broad felt-tip marker and drop them in so I can see them through the sides. No worries about labels falling off. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-26 21:30:20 EDT, you write: << 720K drives will work fine on the original drive controller AFTER you load the driver file. I've done it dozens of times to connect my NEC Multi-Speed drives to the PC. The only problem is that you can't boot from them since the driver has to be loaded for them to work. I don't *think* the 1.44 Mb drives will work on the controller though. Joe >> i've never needed a driver file in my case. for example, i have a few xt models around here and when i need to install dos or copy files over from a later computer with only a 3.5 drive, i just plug a 720k floppy into the drive controller cable in place of the 360k drive and i'm off and running. i think i could boot off the 720 drive also. you are correct in that 1.44 drives are not supported, although i do have an adaptor card that will let hi density drives work in an xt. david

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Aim65 computers F/S

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I got a line on about 9 AIM65-based computer systems. These systems not only include the AIM, but also a custom-made case, power supply, keyboard, and miscellaneous related stuff. These would go for about $100 each + S/H. These units are supposed to be new, being built for a specific project which never got off the ground. Those interested, e-mail me separately. Thanks! ================================== Rich Cini/WUGNET - Charter ClubWin! Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of classic computers <<========== Reply Separator ==========>>

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROMs (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<operating systems in rom? that seems fairly popular. my atari portfolio h <dos in rom as well as my tandy 100 has apps in rom. even the original 201 <PS1 had dos in rom. Not to mention Epson PX-8 (and a few others) when CP/M OS in rom and applications in roms (cartridges) as well. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I like system 6 much more than the later ones because I think it holds truer to the theory of simplicity and ease-of-use. Try sticking a MacOS 8 system folder on a RAMdisk and boot off that! Will never work. System 6 you could do that on, I've tried. Another feature of System 6 was a macro recorder which has been replaced by the more difficult Applescript. >I don't know of any other Macs with that feature either, and I'll bet that >there were none. It was a somewhat Spartan version (not as unpleasant as >a boot floppy, much less pleasant than a fancy hard-drive installation). >Now that Systems 7 and 8 have taken over, it probably would seem pretty >barren. It sure is fast though! But none of your Finder preferences get >saved. (Where would they go?) They could go to PRAM, but I guess they didn't. What's the tag? >BTW, if you "Get Info" on the virtual hard drive, you'll see an amusing >tag in the "Location" field. > >-- Derek > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Heads-up: Cleveland OH, mini's etc

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Nasa Lewis has some old computer stuff up for bid, including a couple PDP-11's and an IBM 7015 (whatever that is!). Here are some URLs: http://ltwebp.lerc.nasa.gov/980010detail.htm http://ltwebp.lerc.nasa.gov/sales.htm A partial list follows. Note that there were several of some of these items, and some of them had different notes attached. Inspection day is Thursday, July 9th from 7:30 am to 3:00. Bids will be opened Wednesday, July 15th at 1:00 pm. I don't know if there is an earlier deadline for getting bids in. There are other rules too (of course). See those web pages for more info. PROCESSOR, DIGITAL DATA CONCURRENT COMPUTER 3250XP 600 # 30" X 45" X 50" COMPUTER, MINI IBM 7015 3'X2'X6' 300# CONTROL, COMPUTER STORAGE TECHNOLOGY CORP 4670 30"X24"X52" 400# TAPE DRIVE UNIT STORAGE TECHNOLOGY CORP 4674 30"X31"X52" 450# DISK DRIVE UNIT SEAGATE 47177701 COMPUTER, MINI SOLBOURNE COMPUTER 5E900 4'X4'X6', 500 LBS. TAPE DRIVE UNIT TRIMM IND DA20V1R PART OF T/N 1109700 COMPUTER, MICRO CONCURRENT COMPUTER 6605 80 # 32 CHANNEL PROCESSOR, DIGITAL DATA DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP MNC11DA IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# INPUT MODULE DIGITAL MNCDI IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# OUTPUT MODULE DIGITAL MNCDO IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# CHASSIS, EXPANSION CONCURRENT COMPUTER 20 # 16 CHANNELS DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP RL01A IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP RL02 IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# COMPUTER, MINI DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP 11-24XX DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP 70-12130 COMPUTER, MINI DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP PDP11/24 DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP RL02 27"X19"X11",60#, WON'T POWER UP DISK DRIVE UNIT IBM 3380 44"X32"X70" 325# If only I had a basement, a truck, and a couple days of spare time... Have fun! Bill.

28 years, 3 months

4
4
0 0

Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sure, we'd all buy, at least in the interest of solidarity, but I'm not sure how many others would. Either way, I don't know how many people are alive now and able to access the 'net that have ever touched a PERQ >You could release it in pdf format on the internet with a $5 shareware >fee, or something. I'd certainly buy it, and I'm sure lots of other >people (such as the ones who subscribe to this list) would as well. The >information is invaluable. > >Tom Owad > >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Sun and the CPU Wars (was Re: NeXT cubes or slabs.)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote: > > So...how did/do you read the 386i? > > A bad mistake. I gather that is what Sun feels these days too. A while back I asked a friend within Sun who has been able to find interesting stuff for me >from time to time whether he could get certain information about the 386i[1], and that is about the answer I got: don't ask about the 386i, no-one wants to remember. > God only knows what they were thinking - the 68020 and 68030 machines were > quite capable at the time. Well, one view is that they were thinking with a different brain -- the 386i was a somewhere-in-Massachusetts creation, while the rest of Sun is in (or slightly north of) Sillycon Valley and I've gathered didn't pay much attention to the 386i. Also (from looking at the manuals) I gather it would have made a pretty nifty MS-DOS development environment for its day, being able to boot MS-DOS in several independent virtual machines. I'll have to play with that someday and see how well it really works. > Wasn't the i386 pretty much a failure by the time the Sun-4s came out. I don't think so. In fact I think it came out pretty much concurrently with, or maybe even shortly after the early Sun-4s -- it only ever ran its peculiar version of SunOS 4.0.x. That's why I used to think of it as Sun hedging its bets on the future. -Frank McConnell [1] Someone wanted to port Linux to it. No, I don't understand why, there are plenty of i386s in the world to run Linux, and besides the Sun 386i and the appropriate SunOS really sort of go together IMO. But I figured I would inquire anyway, one can never have too much documentation.

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Fw: Free Morrow S-100 CP/M Systems

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

-----Original Message----- From: Art Carlson <xnospamx(a)netrix.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 10:50 AM Subject: Free Morrow S-100 CP/M Systems >*** DO NOT AUTOREPLY *** > > I have two Morrow S-100 systems complete with drives, manuals, and >disks, which I will give to a good home. They do not include terminals. > The catch is that they are located in Northwest Montana, and I will >not pack or ship them, they would have to be picked up here. > E-mail me with any serious inquiries. >SPAM BLOCK replace xnospamx in the address with acarlson > Art Carlson >

28 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Sun and the CPU Wars (was Re: NeXT cubes or slabs.)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote: > Actually, the 88000 was killed off because Sun went with the SPARCs for > their next generation of machines, the Sun-4 series. So...how did/do you read the 386i? Back then, I read it as Sun hedging its bets against a total victory by Intel in the CPU Wars of the late 1980s: they could sell Motorola, Intel, and SPARC today (today being then, not now) and promise to be around tomorrow no matter what the CPU of tomorrow looked like. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

5
4
0 0

IBM RS6000 for sale

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> The 320H is a decent machine (unlike the 220 dog), but lacks a ethernet > port. Like most RS/6000s, it has screaming floating point, and can use XGA > (a bit more tube freindly than other workstations). [Pause while I get up from my desk and go and look at our RS/6000s] Hey! You're right! Our 320 machines (320E, upgraded from 320 something else I think, equivalent to 320H) have ethernet on a microchannel card. That shouldn't be too hard to find... We've had our 320s for six years or more, our 375 for four or five. We are thinking of getting something faster but it's hard to match the FP performance on anything modern. With luck, when (if) we do, I'll get the old ones. FWIW the fastest FP we found in our sort of price range was the RS/6000 model 397. The last of the POWER RISC machines, much faster than the Power PC RS/6000s... But I fear we're a bit off topic here... Philip.

28 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

new additions (and plenty of em!)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

some guy at work knew i enjoyed collecting old stuff so he contacted me and gave me all this: 15 apple scsi peripheral cables, 7 that were never opened 3 //e enhancement kits. 1 in original packaging. also some loose chips thrown in with the rest of the junk i got. localtalk locking connector kit. <?> 2 ext 80 col card 1 in original packaging never opened. 1 imagewriter 2 /lq localtalk option 2 mouse //e 1 never opened //gs mem exp card 2 supr serial card 1 never opened 1 mouse //e workstation card never opened <!> 6 apple 256k mem exp upgrade kits. only 1 was opened. microtek language card unidisk 5.25 controller undisk 3.5 controller many user manuals for apple // and mac some never opened tandy dcm3 modem 2 ext 80 col card 1 scsi cable extender grappler card ibm 2.88 floppy drive. has standard form factor unlike ps2 2.88 floppy. proprinter ribbons ps2 mouse never used in box ps2 tape backup for qic80 tapes with matching install b and c kits appleshare pc program future domain isa scsi card 2 ps2 4meg kits never used 1 16meg ecc mem 1 box of 10 2meg upgrade kits. never used! mca 16/4 token ring nic mca 2-8 meg mem expansion card 11 boca 512/1meg svga isa video cards never used apple tutorial disks never used. also a few other minor things i cant remember. everything above remain in their original boxes im cancelling a fishing trip to go back to his house tonight and pick up some more things. he used to either work for skool system or was with a servicer involved with skools which is where this probably all came from. i'll update when i get the other goodies. unfortunately, no lisa stuff, although it cant hurt to ask. i'll probably keep most of this although i bet i could make a killing hyping it up for sale on ebay... 8-( david

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Hi, I was wondering if there's a surefire way of telling if an IBM-PC has its original motherboard, without opening the case. I saw one at the Salvation Army today and was considering dragging it home (though I decided to take another machine instead). The machine did have a cassette port in the back, with a femal DIN connector. Is this attached to the motherboard? The machine also had a full complement of cards in its slots, with lots of ports coming out of it. And a 3.5" drive that was poorly fitted into the case. I'm wondering if I should make a trip downtown sometime this weekend, with the car. Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

28 years, 3 months

5
4
0 0

NeXT cubes or slabs.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sounds cool. Many of the greatest design concepts are stopped... not because of bugs, not because of tiredness of developers, but because of the only thing obstructing innovation: Money. Tim -----Original Message----- From: George Currie <g(a)kurico.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 9:04 PM Subject: Re: NeXT cubes or slabs. Actually they (NeXT) had started work on a dual Motorola 88000 machines before NeXT dropped out of the hardware biz. Some former NeXT hardware guys went on to form a company called FirePower to design PREP?, CHRP? compliant PPC computers. They released a few but were then bought by Motorola and of course we all know what happened to PREP/CHRP/WhatEVER. George

28 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

OS's In ROMs (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

Not to mention the HP-110 Portables . . . > operating systems in rom? that seems fairly popular. my atari portfolio has > dos in rom as well as my tandy 100 has apps in rom. even the original 2011 IBM > PS1 had dos in rom. > > david > > In a message dated 98-06-26 14:22:44 EDT, you write: > > < fixes, a new version every other day of the week, etc. but still, it's a way > cool concept. Which computers did this? > Ciao, >> > > > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Disclaimer: | | | | These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | | policies or opinions of my employer. | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------+

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

CLASSICCMP digest 457

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote: ] Picked up a cartridge for the Coco t'other day, and I'm not sure what it ] is. It says "Cat. No. 26-3129" and "Color Computer Controller" on it. Has ] the card-edge connector where it plugs in, then another, smaller one on the ] back end. My guess is it's a floppy controller? Here is a URL for you: http://members.tripod.com/~qtv/index-7.html It lists Radio Shack items and catalog numbers. According to that, what you've got is a "Color Thinline Disk #0 Kit 349.95". I suppose that part number was for the entire kit, drive and controller both. Bill.

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OS's In ROMs (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

operating systems in rom? that seems fairly popular. my atari portfolio has dos in rom as well as my tandy 100 has apps in rom. even the original 2011 IBM PS1 had dos in rom. david In a message dated 98-06-26 14:22:44 EDT, you write: <>

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

NeXT cubes or slabs.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

If you ask me, CHRP was worthless, like the rest of the Apple cloning program. In the end, not a soul made a cent off that whole thing, and many people were stuck with machines that didn't have warranty / support. Lastly, what's so good about a DB25 serial port on a Mac anyway? Now USB is good. Could NeXTs run any non-NeXT software? >Sounds cool. Many of the greatest design concepts are stopped... not >because of bugs, not because of tiredness of developers, but because of the >only thing obstructing innovation: Money. > >Tim >Actually they (NeXT) had started work on a dual Motorola 88000 machines >before NeXT dropped out of the hardware biz. Some former NeXT hardware >guys went on to form a company called FirePower to design PREP?, CHRP? >compliant PPC computers. They released a few but were then bought by >Motorola and of course we all know what happened to >PREP/CHRP/WhatEVER. > >George > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

NeXT Resources?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. Does anyone know of (or have) a page on NeXT's with photos, docs, etc.? Thanks, Tim

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

TRS-80 video synch chaos

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

I've got a TRS-80 Model I that MOSTLY works (I typed in a program to fill the screen with characters and the screen did fill up) except for the video synchronization. Characters lean to the right, and the display moves all over the screen. Usually the motion is quickly to the left while also moving upward, though sometimes it stabalizes and just moves upward. Is there an adjustment to control this somewhere? The machine is in beautiful physical shape - it looks unused. There's even a sticker still on it that is stuck to the expansion port's trapdoor and sticks also to the machine's case. And the warrantee seal hasn't been broken yet. Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

28 years, 3 months

2
7
0 0

NeXT cubes or slabs.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>The latter (Sam Goldberger) is in Mill Valley, California. I think >Deep Space is in New Mexico. There used to be some guy on the east >coast but he seems to have disappeared... odd since he seemed to have >most of the CIA inventory. And what, prey tell, is so odd about that? ;-) >Since I'm an Openstep developer, in my mind they aren't really >antiques... though the CPU clock rates are low by todays standards >they still perform very well for day-to-day use because the software >(OS, application framework and display mode) layers were engineered >very efficiently. The platform is just barely ten years old and >still very modern if not futuristic. Yep. I actually think that Apple could appeal more to the design market by releasing a new PPC based NeXT. That would give the platform a significant boost. Especially becasue I've heard that Apple's going to be making $500-$1500 devices. PPC NeXTs could sell for well over $5-$10, even for a lower-end one. >The "PrinterWorks" I believe, still sells laserprinters for them. >With these, you can essentially turn a NeXT Cube or station into a >Win 95/NT printing engine via Samba networking, have it run your web >server, and use it to run many applications that would make both >Windows and plain old Unix jealous if they were jealous kinds of >Operating Systems. Sounds cool. But getting more and more off topic... >If all else fails, there's also comp.sys.next.marketplace, where >everyone is trying to sell what they have right now. ALL RIGHT!!! There's a NeXT in my future! >Collectable items include extra DSP memory, the ancient ISDN modem >that worked through the DSP port, Ariel Digital Microphones, Digital >Ears [a Digital Sound I/O system]. DSP Memory? DUDE!!! >Also... the 20 " monitors were _beautiful_ to work nexst to. Before >I sold mine I always felt like I was almost living inside my NeXT. >But they are oh so heavy! Well, it could have been inside of a titanium alloy casing... >Cubes are ultra-ergonomic. The cases very somewhat depending on >when they were made. I like the cases the early 68030 machines... >they had less ventilation I think but they looked cooler... more >metalic somehow. No kidding. That's the big catch to NeXT's. The looks. Once you see one, you can't really sleep easy until one's inside of your house. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

GOD this is a long thread! >Well, considering the reason that I started collection computers 12 >years ago was so that people would have the chance to use >frontpanels, paper tape, punched cards etc in he future, I might do >that sometime. Problem is it would take a lot of work, and I doubt if >anyone would buy it. > >-tony Why not? The Soul of a New Machine, Insanely Great, and Hackers seemed to do just fine, to name a few. I don't mean an encyclopedia, but a bunch of stories about the design of stuff (i.e. a chapter on how Multics was made, a chapter on how the Apple arose, a chapter on where the ENIAC came from,etc.). It seems that people can only read things like this if they are made about people rather than, "The idea began slowly to take shape that instead of using a two-stage adder it would be easier to use a shift register. This was to come up later when..." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

4
4
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by franke＠sbs.de

>> >So, what to use ? Writable CDs ? They have only a guaranteed >> I suggest real CD-ROMs > Do you believe that there will still be working CD-ROM drives in > 20 or 30 years time? Remember they contain custom chips as well... Jep, I think there will still be (new) compatible drives in consumer price range - and I bet that there are for shure still new drives in the 'professional' price range in 20 years >from now. I don't think the drive is the problem, new medias are maybe a lot more difficult to aquire - try to buy _new_ _manufactured_ 8" disks - everyting you get as 'new' is at least 6 years old. > And storage systems change. When was the last time you saw a working > Syquest 10Mbyte drive (note, the 2 on my shelf don't count, as they need > minor repairs...) No, never had one, but what about 10 MB Bernouli Drives from Iomega ? I still have a unit of two in working condition - now 15 years old. >> What is the problem with EPROMs? Why not just put them in styrofoam? > The problem is that the data is held by an electrostatic charge on a > floating gate in the chip. It's a capacitor, really, and like all > capacitors it slowly discharges. Now, the time constant may be 10 years > or 20 years, or whatever, but it's still going to discharge. ? depending on the tecnology. > And chips - all chips - fail. If (say) the bondout wire on one of the > data pins falls off, there's no easy way to repair it. Yes, but a lot less and later than magnetic medias. > Oh, and putting chips in styrofoam is the quickest way to damage them > from static. And although the damage may not be noticeable at the time, > the chip might fail 1 month later, or whatever. :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 3 months

5
13
0 0

The Beatles

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

> > I just found a discarded Packard Bell 486 (I almost left it because the > > case looked like a 286's). I don't know why you all dislike those things > > so much, this case is very good. Anyway, when the machine boots, the ROM > > displays a "Packard Bell" graphic, complete with a 3-second fade-in (if > > only people paid so much attention to _useful_ stuff). Underneath, it > > displays, "America grew up listening to us. It still does." Now, this is > > my question. What does this mean? When was this company founded, and > > what was their original product? > > Packard-Bell, as you see it, is simply not the company it used to be. As > with so many American company names, someone bought the name. <Some Defence-Related stuff PB did in the 1950's SNIPed> > I have no idea what happened to Packard-Bell. They may still be around, > doing defense work, or they may have been swallowed up. The Packard-Bells > at CompUSA, however, are simply not related. The way I seen it, P-B may have been a defence contractor during WWII and later, but their main claim to fame was that for decades, they were one of the biggest manufacturers of Broadcast radios, and Television Sets. I know for a fact they were making TV's (of the humongous console variety in vogue at the time) in the early 70's because I remember an inane TV commercial for it. In the 50's and 60's there were some other major players that manufactured TV's (they actually *made* the stuff): Admiral (my grandmother had one), Motorola, GE, RCA and Zenith. Others were: Pilot, Curtis-Mathes (still around, I think), Hofmann, Westinghouse and a whole bunch of other minor players. Then the Japanese arrived (en force) in the mid 70's, and the next thing we knew thousands of americans were out of work, and no Televisions (or Computer monitors, for that matter) were made domestically. Packard-Bell was one of these victims. I don't know who is behind the resurrection of the P-B brandname. I suspect they wanted to appeal to baby-boomers who fondly remember watching 'Hopalong', 'Cisco' or 'Bonanza' on their parents' Packard Bell console TV. Jeff > > By the way, Packard-Bell has nothing to do with HP. > > William Donzelli > william(a)ans.net > > > > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Disclaimer: | | | | These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | | policies or opinions of my employer. | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------+

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

NeXT cubes or slabs.

by thomas100＠home.com

Actually the slabs are very common in the U.S evidently because of the contract NeXT had with the CIA. Cubes aren't that much rarer... just more expensive. Two places where you can go for NeXT equipment are: http://www.deepspacetech.com http://www.orb.com The latter (Sam Goldberger) is in Mill Valley, California. I think Deep Space is in New Mexico. There used to be some guy on the east coast but he seems to have disappeared... odd since he seemed to have most of the CIA inventory. I seem to remember his warehouse lease expired and he had some kind of blowout sale last year! Since I'm an Openstep developer, in my mind they aren't really antiques... though the CPU clock rates are low by todays standards they still perform very well for day-to-day use because the software (OS, application framework and display mode) layers were engineered very efficiently. The platform is just barely ten years old and still very modern if not futuristic. The "PrinterWorks" I believe, still sells laserprinters for them. With these, you can essentially turn a NeXT Cube or station into a Win 95/NT printing engine via Samba networking, have it run your web server, and use it to run many applications that would make both Windows and plain old Unix jealous if they were jealous kinds of Operating Systems. If all else fails, there's also comp.sys.next.marketplace, where everyone is trying to sell what they have right now. Collectable items include extra DSP memory, the ancient ISDN modem that worked through the DSP port, Ariel Digital Microphones, Digital Ears [a Digital Sound I/O system]. Also... the 20 " monitors were _beautiful_ to work nexst to. Before I sold mine I always felt like I was almost living inside my NeXT. But they are oh so heavy! Cubes are ultra-ergonomic. The cases very somewhat depending on when they were made. I like the cases the early 68030 machines... they had less ventilation I think but they looked cooler... more metalic somehow. thomas100(a)home.com

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

High-end SCSI 9-track drives available!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Heads up, 9-track users! RE-PC, a local (Seattle/Tukwila, two locations) used computer place I work with has turned up yet -another- pair of M4 Data 9914R 9-track tape drives. Specs can be found at www.m4data.com. The 9914 is built like the proverbial tank. It is actuall a dual-interface device. Leave the SCSI card in, and it is standard SCSI-1 with a 768K buffer. Pull the SCSI card out, and uncover the edge connectors on the back, and it becomes a standard Pertec interface unit. Only one interface may be used at one time; you cannot have both simultaneously. One -really- nice feature of the 9914's, besides how robustly they're built, is that they're quad-density. They will handle any standard density of 9-track tape from 800 (NRZI) to 6250 (GCR). They're front-loading, horizontal mount, and feature a very reliable vacuum-driven autoloading system. Stick the reel in, close the door, and wait about twenty seconds. The 9914 is still manufactured, and supported by M4 Data. Documentation, parts and firmware updates are still available if you can live with some of M4's prices. I've inspected both drives and they look to be in good shape. One looks like it took a minor impact to the rear quarter, as the card cage cover had bent corners (believe me, that's not going to bother a 9914!). Other than that, they look great. If you're interested, contact RE-PC in Tukwila directly: (206) 575-8737. Ask for Eric and tell him I referred you. The last 9914 in good shape went for $165 (a steal considering that these monsters still go for around $7,000 from M4), and I expect the others will be about the same (probably less for the one that's slightly dinged). Take a friend with you when you go. These drives are not light! I can lift one by myself, but it's not a fun experience. The back end is the heaviest as that's where the power transformer is. I've already grabbed three of the beasties. It's time to share the wealth. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

New eMail Address; Out Of Contact

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. For those who care, from the 27th to the 8th of July, I'll be out of contact. In the mean time, I can be reached at worldsfate(a)geocities.com , and that should get to me after the 8th. This eMail address is getting disconnected. I'm unsubscribing from the list until I can get a faster POP account. Maybe a Hotmail/web based eMail one would work. Anyway, does anyone know an ISP in Washington, DC that could get me hooked up QUICK, from a handheld and only for about a month? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

"No name" S-100 computer

by bobstek＠ix.ix.netcom.com

Dave - Your timing is good for asking about a ProcTech tape archive. I've been working with another Sol owner and will soon have a CUTS programs CD-ROM (just use a portable CD-ROM player in place of the cassette player) with as much of the original software as it's been possible to find (TARG, BASIC5, TREK80, FOCAL, PILOT, etc.). I also have a tape from Proteus, the ProcTech users group, which I can send you immediately. Email me you address and I'll pop it in the mail. Bob Stek

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

macintoshes, part ][

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 25 Jun 98 at 21:38, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: > Ive got a IIcx that ive tricked out with 5meg, mono display, two external > drives, syquest 44 meg drive and the apple cd300 drive and a radius rocket > accelerator with 8 meg. unfortunately, the rocket accelerator locks up the > machine on the second reboot. disabling it lets the mac work at original > speed. can anyone provide suggestions? the rocket seems to be temperamental, > from what i can see. David, You are about to discover how temperamental the Rocket really can be... I dare say you know that Radius still have the latest RocketWare software and a brief FAQ available on their ftp site. There's another utility there called "lift-off" that checks the configuration of the host Mac for timing senstitive cards that may conflict with the Rocket. Have you tried knocking up a minimal system floppy (eg disk tools for System 7.0 with the RocketWare extension added) and thried booting >from that? Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

> >I was wondering if there's a surefire way of telling if an IBM-PC has its >original motherboard, without opening the case. I saw one at the >Salvation Army today and was considering dragging it home (though I >decided to take another machine instead). > >The machine did have a cassette port in the back, with a femal DIN >connector. Is this attached to the motherboard? Yes it is. So it sounds like it's original. There were 2 motherboards, a 16-64k and a 64-256k. The former was the original one. The latter has a B in a circle stamped on the back plate.

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...)

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 25 Jun 98 at 23:22, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Wow, it has the complete OS in ROM? I didn't know any of the Mac's did > that. Are there any others or was this a one shot experiment that failed? > The OS in ROM is the main thing I like about the Atari ST's. ISTR that Apple were looking at a diskless Mac project -- the sort of thing that would interest education. The Classic was available as a hard diskless model according to the manual but I've never seen one. Of course the diskless idea would never have worked very well as there was nowhere to install extensions/INITs and the diskless Classic was stuck on System 6.0.x and there was no ethernet capability. (An aside: Sonic Systems later developed The Diskless Mac (TDM) which used a boot PROM on an ethernet card to attach to an AppleShare server where a System image was stored. This worked with System 7 but the hardware range was limited.) Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Attache Altair??

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

I have made contact with an individual who has what he describes as an Altair 8800 which is in an "Attache" case made by Icom in 1976. Would appreciate any information about this "Attache". Is it a very desirable thing. Were very many produced, etc? It has MITS boards (CPU, IO, disk controller) and power suppy. He wants to trade it to me for an Imsai 8800. Would that be a good trade on my part? Thanks, Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

4
3
0 0

subscribe

by thomas100＠home.com

Please forgive if this is an inappropriate way to subscribe and it goes onto your mailing list. I'm not sure whether this server knows to add me or if I need to make contact with a specific individual before I am subscribed. I've been looking around this list for what must be years! Thomas Pfaff thomas100(a)home.com Trs-80 Model 4 lover

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

CP/M

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 07:44 PM 6/18/98 -0700, Bruce Lane wrote: > Where did you get the idea that tape is so fragile? I'd wager the ones you >encountered were either of very poor quality or were stored under adverse >conditions (high heat, high humidity, etc). A side note: I've got VHS tapes that are 10-12 years old and still look the same when played. I find that most tapes fail with heavy use, not age deterioration. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

28 years, 3 months

8
8
0 0

Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...)

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

Megan Gentry wrote: > >BTW - another question -- when the Mac Classic boots, it shows the > >smiley disk and I hear the internal HD working. The screen goes >light > grey with a pointer on it. This is displayed for a few seconds >and > then I get the 'Welcome to Macintosh' screen. This remains this >way > for as much as 10 minutes (I didn't wait longer). Is this >normal? The Mac Classic contains a complete System 6 installation in ROM that you can boot from. Sorry but I don't have the docs handy, but I think if you press Command-Option-Shift-X on startup, it'll boot from the ROM. Another way that should work is Command-Option-Shift-Backspace -- this key combination should work on any SCSI capable Mac to supress booting from the default SCSI boot device. Once you've booted, you'll need to scrounge a copy of Disk First Aid or a third party utility to check the hard disk. Do you have system install disks etc for the machine? Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> It can't be as bad as the Science Museum in London, surely. I was there >>> earlier this week, and what a _joke_!!! >> I never been there - hmm maybe I should tak a weekend - is >> there a Website to get the opening hours ? > Well, IMHO, it's worth the admission charge (\pounds 6.50 (!)) if you're > interested in things other than classic computers. But it's not worth it > for the computers alone. > I've been interested in clocks for about 25 years or more, so seeing a > Synchronome working (even if the description wasn't that good) was worth > it. Ditto for a lot of the other clocks (going back many centuries) - > most of them are ticking away... > Alas they've added some of those 'interactive' experiments. While a good > idea in theory, I'm not sure they should be combined with collections of > historical scientific instruments, etc. The groups of people interested > in the two displays would have virtually no intersection IMHO. Hmm. The Deutsches Museum is a 'hands-on'/'interactive') museum since the first years, and the combination of historic displays and learning works fine - at least for me. >> Ok, the 2002 wouldn't be exactly the machine for continous >> display in action, but even if it is just as static display, > No, but fire it up from time to time to show it in operation. Even just 1 > or 2 days a year. Announce the days in advance and the hackers can come > along and see a real machine in operation >> this one time running test ist the best verification that the >> static display is _complete_. >> (In fact, the critical part of the 2002 is the storage drum - >> even back in time when it was new, every power up and down >> had to be guarded by tecnicans - hmm but even here, since >> the drum is a closed device, one could replace it (invisible) >> by a modern electronic emulation... just thinking) > Oh, back the heads off the drum and replace it with a set of RAMs and > counters :-). Keep the drum turning, and demonstrate the machine with > more modern memory (at least for day-to-day operation). Exactly my idea of a display ... Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 3 months

6
9
0 0

Back to the Future

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Aha, y'all thought I was being cute with the subject... 8^) I re-watched BttF II the other night, and noticed that in the window of the shop where Marty buys the sports almanac was an interesting item, an "antique computer". (A mac Plus-ish machine.) I'm not sure exactly what year II came out (about '87-88?) but that was pretty insightful, I think. ('Course, they were pretty cool movies anyway.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

COMPUTER AUTOMATION ALPHA-16

by LAAG＠pacbell.net

I HAVE SEVERAL COMPUTER AUTOMATION ALPHA-16 MINICOMPUTERS... THEY HAVE CORE MEMORY AND NO PARTICULAR MICRO-PROC CHIP BUT A WHOLE BOARD OF CHIPS FOR THAT FUNCTION... THESE ARE 16 BIT COPUTERS MADE IN THE EARLY 70'S... ANYONE INTERESTED??? I ALSO HAVE SOME 8" FLOPPIES... LAAG(a)PACBELL.NET

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Free boot disks for Lisa

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

Heads up for Lisa owners. Saw this on Obsolete Comps. DO NOT E-MAIL ME. CONTACT THE ADDRESSEE BELOW ! Michael Getsey <getsey(a)ix.netcom.com> St. Louis, MO USA - Wednesday, June 24, 1998 at 03:24:39 Have three 5.25 inch, double sided, double density disks for Apple III PC. I used these for a COBOL class I had at The Citadel. Disks are Apple III E-Z Pieces Boot Disc, Compiler, and Utilities. I believe I was using them on an Apple Lisa at the time ( 1983 ). They're free for the asking. Send me your "snail mail" address, and they're yours! lwalker(a)interlog.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Coco Question

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Picked up a cartridge for the Coco t'other day, and I'm not sure what it is. It says "Cat. No. 26-3129" and "Color Computer Controller" on it. Has the card-edge connector where it plugs in, then another, smaller one on the back end. My guess is it's a floppy controller? Also, does anyone know what happened to Roger Merchberger? Seems to have disappeared. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Old computer books

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Care to name some cool >technology that wasn't driven by capitalism? OK! the usage of fire, the processing of most materials (iron, copper, wood, stone, etc.). In fact, if you say that capitalism is only present when it's called capitalism, then most technologies. All simple machines. The scale. The boat. Most things achieved by the military such as the computer (yes, they were partly bombing Japan for economic reasons, but that's a little farfetched). All nuclear equipment was engineered separately in the USSR. Had enough yet? The printing press. The castle. The book. Writing. At any rate, I'm not saying Capitalism is BAD, I'm just saying it doesn't promote ingenuity, which is true for many other governments. >- John > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Mac Answers

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

To the person looking for a Mac keyboard and mouse... Before you start getting that 'ol 512 ready to rumble most of the internet software you want to learn about will NOT work on it (save for an older (really older) mac terminal like Red Ryder via a provider's UNIX shell account). Best to go with the SE and the ADB route and get an appropriate mouse and keyboard to get on the net. (though you can get up to web browsing with an SE but without such niceities as pictures and such.) Then such things as PPP, TCP/IP, etc apply. Though You should ask for something like a color LC, Performa, or centris class as they would also let you work with Open Transport file system along with the old system under 7+. :) ============ To the person regarding IDE drives on a Mac 636...

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Old computer books

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 12:53 PM 6/25/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote: > >Here's one: Capitalism, the abode of stupidity, is the crematorium of >ingenuity and creativity. Just off the top of my head. Yuck. You don't know me very well, do you? :-) I'm going to send out the classiccmp libertarian goon squad, who will persuade you to think otherwise. (Non-violently, of course.) It's capitalism and lust for money, power, and members of an attractive gender orientation that drives any sort of start-up, including Commodore and Amiga Corp. Care to name some cool technology that wasn't driven by capitalism? - John

28 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Macintosh II (lisa???)

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 25 Jun 98 at 5:43, John Higginbotham wrote: > >Mac IIx - 68030? > >Mac IIfx > >Mac IIvx (iirc) You've missed out the IIvi as well. For information about Mac specs, there's a great free utility called GURU from Newer Technology at http://www.newertech.com > I'm not sure about the IIvx either, but I do have a Mac IIx sitting here. > Main difference was just a little boost on the proc speed over the Mac II. The Mac II is a fairly lame 68020 system (no fpu, no pmmu) while the IIX (same as IIcx but different form) is a very usable 68030. > Question: Will any nubus card work in any mac with a nubus slot? (I'm > talking standard form, one piece card, not the little two piece connected > jobbies found on the SI/LC etc.) Yes/No. Size can be a problem. Older cards were often full size and won't fit in a IIsi or later system. Hi res graphics cards from people like SuperMac, Radius, RasterOps etc were always temperamental and are often reliant on OS versions and card ROMs. It is unlikely for example that a graphics card from a 68030 would work in a NuBus equipped PowerMac. Lots of people ditched quite expensive graphics cards because the manufacturers demand(ed) so much for ROM upgrades. Accelerator cards, which tend to be full size, can cause timing problems (eg Radius Rocket which is incompatible with AROSE, the system software that arbitrates between NuBus slots!). Ethernet cards would be a safe bet but the rarer stuff (GPIB, video image grabbers etc) would guarantee interesting times... Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Convergent Miscellany

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > > > > On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > > > > > OKay, so what happened to the source for CTIX? Did it vanish? Who > > > does it belong to? WHo do you think I belongs to? > > > > I think it belongs to Unisys. They own the trademark, anyway (through > > their acquisition of Convergent). > > That is the legal situation. I know where I last _saw_ a copy of the > source for version 3.51 for the Unix PC (and a copy of the source for > what would have been next, equivalent to SysVR3) , never made it to > SQA), but I haven't been able to contact him in a couple of years of ^^^ What's his name? Where does he live? We can try 4-11. > trying. (CTIX for the regular machines _did_ reach SysVR3 in > production, but that was after the Unix PC was history). > -- > Ward Griffiths > They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. > Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ Jeff +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Disclaimer: | | | | These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | | policies or opinions of my employer. | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------+

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

macintoshes, part ][

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

Ive got a IIcx that ive tricked out with 5meg, mono display, two external drives, syquest 44 meg drive and the apple cd300 drive and a radius rocket accelerator with 8 meg. unfortunately, the rocket accelerator locks up the machine on the second reboot. disabling it lets the mac work at original speed. can anyone provide suggestions? the rocket seems to be temperamental, >from what i can see. david

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

unsubscribe classiccmp

by wpe＠interserv.com

Off to Montreal for a week.. Figured I'd temporarily un-subscribe for that period, so SPRYNET doesn't get uptight about the size of my mailbox.... I should be back around 4 July..... Will

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater areas Wa

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:11 AM 6/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Robotron is also a video game ca. 1981-2 (Williams, iirc) that was [...] >>each other. Other, similar games included Sinistar (no relation, and don't >>even go there) and one whose name I forgot that had to do with spiders and >What do you mean, there's no relation? They are both William's titles...and Whups... Sorry. I occassionally get sensitive about my last name, and when I was younger, I was the butt of a lot of jokes centered around my name and that game. (Sinasohn, Sinistar.) >Sinistar is the addition of 2 SRAMs, a different interface board (for dual >joysticks), blitter clipper circuit and an additional sound board for Robotron also had dual joysticks, so perhaps that was the same on both games? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Coco Question

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>Also, does anyone know what happened to Roger Merchberger? Seems to have >disappeared. You can find him on the M100 mailing list. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

The Beatles

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I just found a discarded Packard Bell 486 (I almost left it because the case looked like a 286's). I don't know why you all dislike those things so much, this case is very good. Anyway, when the machine boots, the ROM displays a "Packard Bell" graphic, complete with a 3-second fade-in (if only people paid so much attention to _useful_ stuff). Underneath, it displays, "America grew up listening to us. It still does." Now, this is my question. What does this mean? When was this company founded, and what was their original product? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Last two days of ClassicCmp anyone?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I got unsubscribed from ClassicCmp somehow. Can someone forward me the last two days worth or tell me where I can get it? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

EPROM programmers available

by rcini＠email.msn.com

FYI, this guy has some multiple-gang EPROM programmers available. Contact him directly (Mikeooo1(a)aol.com). <PASTE> The Gangpro S I have will enable you to burn up to 32 chips at a time and covers hundreds of device types.Its features are way too numerous to go into but its replacement is selling for over $6000.I am looking for $300 for it.The Gangpro8 will do 8 at a time and covers most device types also. It is self contained where as the "S" can hook up thru a 232 cable with a PC. The one you'll probably be most interested in is an EP-2A-88 by Optimal Technolgy which requires a "personality module" for the eprom type you wish to program and will program 4 at a time. I have such modules for 2716's and 2532's only.I am looking for $45 for that one. </PASTE> Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Zuse

by franke＠sbs.de

>>>Since we were recently discussing the first computer, I wondered, if >>>the Zuse was "first", then what is the ENIAC famous for? >>It's main use was calculating ballistics tables for artillery. If >>anyone really cares, I could explain it in detail - but it's pretty >>boring stuff. > For one thing, why is it generally considered to be the first computer? Maybe a very simple thing - since after the war ther was only the Brit/US developents known to the (Brit/US) Scientists, they just didn't know (like von Neuman is always credited for the idea of a seperation of memory and CPU - but in fact Zuse had published this idea 7 years earlyer). It's a bit like one woman, in Florida, asked me around 1992 if I'm from West Germany, East Germany or new Germany *rotfl* Missing information. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Mark 8 pc boards

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 11:04 AM 6/25/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > >> <I've also learned that the printed circuit boards were 2-sided, but had n >> <plated-thru holes. This may have caused problems to IC solder connections >> <making reliability problems. I don't know if this would make buyers aband >> <them making the numbers larger or smaller than otherwise. >> >> Not a problem. The trick was to solder both sides ot use through wires >> as needed. It made the board much cheaper and buildable by home brewers. > >And that approach is cheaper and easier than the tubular rivet that >preceded plated through holes - if you could even find such today :) > Yes, using wires as jumpers is good too. I'm amazed in TV sets, stereos, etc. most all the printed circuit boards are one sided. The problem I saw was with the actual IC pins. Sockets would make it worse. If you don't plan ahead, there might be not enough lead to solder to on the component side of some disk capacitors (resistors mounted on end?), etc. -Dave

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Mark 8 pc boards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've also learned that the printed circuit boards were 2-sided, but had n <plated-thru holes. This may have caused problems to IC solder connections <making reliability problems. I don't know if this would make buyers aband <them making the numbers larger or smaller than otherwise. Not a problem. The trick was to solder both sides ot use through wires as needed. It made the board much cheaper and buildable by home brewers. Allison

28 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Zuse

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Since we were recently discussing the first computer, I wondered, if the Zuse was "first", then what is the ENIAC famous for? Also, has anyone seen any kind of in-depth description of either? I mean, what exactly could the ENIAC do? Has anyone seen diagrams? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Zuse

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>>Since we were recently discussing the first computer, I wondered, if >>the Zuse was "first", then what is the ENIAC famous for? > >It's main use was calculating ballistics tables for artillery. If >anyone really cares, I could explain it in detail - but it's pretty >boring stuff. For one thing, why is it generally considered to be the first computer? Secondly, what kind of calculation did this involve? Was it a table in the computer or did it involve an equation? What order equation? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb