- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 02:49 PM 9/19/98 -0700, Sam wrote: >On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >Today I plugged in the front panel and a Cromemco ZPU. It worked! The >address LEDs 15, 14 and 13 are sequencing in a binary pattern. I don't >know what this means, but at least it shows life. I got the same results >with another ZPU. I can single-step it and see different stuff happening, >but I have no idea what its doing. I buried my friggin IMSAI manual in a >box a few weeks back. No memory installed? It is executing a RST 7 (0FFH) which pushes the current address onto the stack and jumps to 038H (070 octal), and finding yet another 0FFH there, repeats the exercise forever... You are seeing the stack pointer reflected in the lights when running... It's a good sign. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years

2
1
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High density disks on double density drives

by roblwill＠usaor.net

In PC's, I always use 1.44 meg disks in 720k drives. I just tape over the second hole, and format them in one of my 720k machines. I have one of these "doctored" disks that is 5 years old, and still holding its original data strong and true. It has even been around magnetic fields (slit off monitor onto back, right above coil), and hasn't lost a byte. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)freegate.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: High density disks on double density drives > Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 2:41 PM > > It is neither the drive nor the controller per-se, it is the read/write > heads and the media that are incompatible. HD disk media requires a higher > magnetic field to magnetize reliably and the DD drives don't provide it. > > --Chuck > > At 01:36 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I've heard that you shouldn't use high density disks in double > >density drives, that the data wouldn't be reliable.

28 years

2
1
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NeXT tidbits

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Last weekend I got a Monochrome NeXTstation Turbo slab, and with a little difficulty was able to clear out the root password using the procedures that are fairly easy to find on DejaNews. However, NetInfo was giving me a fit, and kept setting the root password back to something else. Never did solve that, because I found a cleaner solution. I found a message using DejaNews in which someone recommends prior to selling a networked NeXT system that you copy /usr/templates/client/etc/hostconfig and netinfo/* to /private/etc and then reboot. The system is then in a "out of the box" standalone configuration. When you reboot you're then in the "me" account. Another useful piece of info that I found is that most of the "Lighthouse Design" apps are now available with a free 2 user license at http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign/ These apps seem to all be quad-fat binaries, and include a Word Processor, 2 different Spreadsheets, a Database, Bitmap and Vector based graphics programs, and some other stuff. You can use them to turn your old NeXT system into a truely useful system. Not sure what you'd have to do for a local printer, I'm printing over the network to the Postscript HP 5MP on my Linux box. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

28 years

1
0
0 0

Help: IBM 5170

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I had a similar problem when I got my 5170 board. I replaced the RAM chips, and it worked fine after I ran SETUP. Try replacing the RAM chips. It sounds like that that is your problem, too. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: oajones <oajones(a)bright.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Help: IBM 5170 > Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 6:59 PM > > Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these > machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up: > "162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)" > Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory > during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error. > Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software > program? > > Thanks... > --Alan > -- > Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M > Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI > BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ > <A > HREF="http://www.bright.net/~oajones">http://www.bright.net/~oajones</A>

28 years

1
0
0 0

Kids these days

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>You might get an old EPROM programmer at a Radio rally/hamfest. But >they're often not that cheap. How about buildign one for your next >project - to program standard EPROMs (2764s - 27512s, say) is not that >hard. Basically you have to set up the address and data, take one of the >pins (Vpp) up to 12.5V (or 21V, or even 25V on older devices) and then >apply a 50ms program pulse to another pin. And repeat for all the >locations you want to program. I have a BAL-500 EMROM Programmer for the Apple II I've been meaning to experiment with. No documentation or software, of course. Is any "special" software required to operate an EPROM programmer, or can it be programmed using the Apple II's BASIC or Assembly (not that I know assembly)? >When i built my first embedded control system I had to build an EPROM >programmer first.... Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years

2
1
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Help: IBM 5170

by oajones＠bright.net

Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up: "162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)" Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error. Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software program? Thanks... --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ <A HREF="http://www.bright.net/~oajones">http://www.bright.net/~oajones</A>

28 years

3
3
0 0

Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Interesting that BG actually realizes that the filesystem where he never had to save anything was cool. And why, may I ask, did he never try this on a PC? With today's fast hard drives, this could probably be done. >> That is what has been reported. There used to be a link to an >> interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my >> various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it >> not much over a year ago. > >http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
0
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Books for DEC-heads

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 06:01 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >Lucky me. I went home with a box of old DEC paperbacks today. A nice >assortment of PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX titles. I don't do DEC (I remember >cherishing the honor of powering-down our development VAXen for the last >time), but the books are small, so I plan to get them all signed by Gordon >Bell at VCF next weekend and stash them away for 100 years or so. > >Except for one. This one is not only rare, but seems to be full of useful >info: VAX-11/750 Level II Student Workbork (For Internal Use Only). This >looks like it would be great for somebody who wants a pretty deep >understanding of the VAX architecture, including microcode, the WCS, >unibus, the works. I'm not good at estimating page count, but it's >double-sided 8.5x11x2". If some DEC-head could use this, let me know. >Offer me a trade of, say, your spare Intel MCS-4 manual and it's yours :-) Hmmm... Think I'd like to have that one! Wonder if I've got that Intel manual buried somewhere... -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years

1
0
0 0

Books for DEC-heads

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Doug: Another thought might be to post a list of the titles, and lend for scanning purposes a copy of any titles not already available on the net. They could then be posted for others reference. There are several titles already on http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8, I'm currently scanning DEC's "Introduction to Programming, Volume 1" from 1972. The other scans are courtesy of the efforts of David Gesswein. Congratulations on your haul! Kevin At 06:01 PM 98/09/19 -0500, you wrote: >Lucky me. I went home with a box of old DEC paperbacks today. A nice >assortment of PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX titles. I don't do DEC (I remember >cherishing the honor of powering-down our development VAXen for the last >time), but the books are small, so I plan to get them all signed by Gordon >Bell at VCF next weekend and stash them away for 100 years or so. > >Except for one. This one is not only rare, but seems to be full of useful >info: VAX-11/750 Level II Student Workbork (For Internal Use Only). This >looks like it would be great for somebody who wants a pretty deep >understanding of the VAX architecture, including microcode, the WCS, >unibus, the works. I'm not good at estimating page count, but it's >double-sided 8.5x11x2". If some DEC-head could use this, let me know. >Offer me a trade of, say, your spare Intel MCS-4 manual and it's yours :-) > >-- Doug > > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

28 years

2
1
0 0

Kids these days

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

So, why are they so expensive then? > >> I'm only 15... I had a few plans for a few things, but the only problem is >> that I need to find an EPROM programmer and some old chips. Any idea where >> to get one - cheap?? > >You might get an old EPROM programmer at a Radio rally/hamfest. But >they're often not that cheap. How about buildign one for your next >project - to program standard EPROMs (2764s - 27512s, say) is not that >hard. Basically you have to set up the address and data, take one of the >pins (Vpp) up to 12.5V (or 21V, or even 25V on older devices) and then >apply a 50ms program pulse to another pin. And repeat for all the >locations you want to program. > >When i built my first embedded control system I had to build an EPROM >programmer first.... > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

2
1
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Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by thomas100＠home.com

Hi, I've heard many times that he did the BASIC for the Trs-80 Model 100. At that time I think Microsoft put out pretty respectable product [I thought so anyway]. Perhaps it makes sense that since he became strictly-management oriented, Microsoft products have been backward, unimaginative and often downright creepy. Well, at least unlike the other Bill, his vices are limited to economic pursuits. I just hope that someday soon they help to modernize computing again. :-( Outside of web browsers and Java, things have been pretty dull for the last couple of years. I would say that that's okay for a maturing industry, but there are so many helpful technologies on the backburner right now that it's just unreal. What was it somebody said? "The popularization of the Internet slammed modern software development back ten years." Or something like that. Thomas

28 years

1
0
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Chuck Peddle?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Rumor has it that Chuck Peddle of 6502 and Commodore PET fame will be found walking the halls of VCF 2.0. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years

2
1
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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If you have free reign and unlimited budget, what you're doing is *NOT* < engineering. Ah, gak another generalization. It does take out the challenge though. < Good engineers want to ship a product that customers will actually use; < the greatest satisfaction an engineer ever has is seeing or hearing < customers use the product. While it is an ego boost to hear customers !You bet! ;) I've done a few. < praise the product, most of the best engineering goes completely unnotic < When was the last time you drove across a bridge and thought "Wow, the < engineers did an awesome job on this bridge."? (At most, people might t < "Wow, this is a pretty bridge.") What people notice is that gee it does save me 20 minutes getting there. A few will notice it as something to look at like Golden Gate or the Verizanio Narrows Bridge. < Any bozo with a EE degree could have built a computer roughly comparabl < in capabilities to the Apple II using many hundreds of chips and costin < thousands of dollars. A good engineer could have done it with few enou < chips to make it affordable. An excellent engineer did it with almost < no chips, and made it not just affordable but also elegant. Ford would < have been proud to see it. Go back to Good, Fast, Cheap. Innovation is the product of careful compromize. I'm also a pilot and In aeronautical engineering given 100hp engine of nominal weight you can make a fast bird that can't carry anything or a very slow one that can and everything inbetween. Somethings however are not possible despite innovations in materials. Allison

28 years

1
0
0 0

CP/M definition

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

This is from the CP/M FAQ: Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything? A: (Don Kirkpatrick) There are at least three popular answers - Control Program for Microcomputers, Control Program for Microprocessors, and Control Program/Monitor. The issue is clouded by authors of popular CP/M books giving different answers. According to Gary Kildall (the author of CP/M), in response to a direct question on the PBS show "The Computer Chronicles" following Computer Bowl I, the answer is: Control Program for Microcomputers. This is also consistent with DRI documentation. See, for example, p. 4 of the DRI TEX manual. If this is true then someone is lying (perhaps even Kildall himself). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years

2
1
0 0

Kids these days

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> > Keep scouring those ham fests or swap meets. Check the web for the one > nearest you. If its too far away, convince Dad or Mom to take you by > mowing the lawn and cleaning up your room like you're told :) That doesn't always work. luckily, there's one every year pretty nearby. That's where I got my Tandy 1000 with 4 LPT ports (I don't know how they all work, but they do, and I'm not gonna touch 'em). I was planning on using it as the controller, and hooking up printer guts and making it work by sending line feeds and spaces, and things like through BASIC. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

28 years

4
4
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Need to bring up a power supply

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't been powered in over a decade perhaps. What can I do to warm up the caps and transformer before bringing it fully online? Anything? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years

3
2
0 0

Transformer

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

As you yourself said, the C128 logic board requires 9vac. But why is this cheap one harmful for electronics? >> >> >> I looked in Radio Shack, at some step-down transformers for 'traveling >> abroad'. There is a price range, with some 'for heating appliances >> only' (the cheapest) and the higher priced ones allow motors, and >> the $34 ones allow electronic devices. What is the difference among >> these units? Also, could a transformer such as in these theoretically >> be reversed and used for step-up purposes? > >The very cheap one ('for heating appliances only') is probably a triac >circuit. Like a lamp dimmer fixed at half-brightness. And that one can't >step up, of course. Don't use that for anything but heaters/lamps. I've >seen the result of plugging a Mac+ into one of those, and it wasn't >pretty. It took me a long time to rebuild the analgoue board. If the >owner had asked me what to do in the first place, I'd have simply cut the >link... > >The true transformers can be used as a step-up unit. But owing to losses, >etc, you may not get the output voltage that you expect (it will, in >general, be lower than you'd expect). But it should work. > >You may find it's cheaper to buy a bare transformer and add the >case/connectors yourself. > >BTW, another trick which I hesitate to mention because it can casue >damage is the following. If you _know_ it's a switch-mode PSU, and that >the first thing it does is rectify the mains, and there's no >line-frequency transformer to provide a startup voltage, then it'll run >on DC, right. So give it DC at peak voltage of the 220V mains it's >expecting - i.e. at twice the peak voltage of the local mains. Make an >external voltage doubler to do this. > >I don't want to give more details, because IMHO if you can't work it >out from that, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. Even if you do >know what to do, examine the PSU carefully to make sure there's _nothing_ >that depends on an AC input. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

2
1
0 0

Warming up an IMSAI P/S

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>A note in defence of the much maligned Altair while on this subject... >May I point out the the Altair 'B' series machines were one of the first to >provide a main transformer with a multi-tap primary to allow for adjusting >for varying loads and local AC supply. And by this point in time ferroresonant transformers were also being dropped in by folks who weren't happy with the original supply, either. Having used a large variety of S-100 boxes, far and away my favorite power supplies are ones with ferroresonant transformers. Tim.

28 years

3
2
0 0

High density disks on double density drives

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I've heard that you shouldn't use high density disks in double density drives, that the data wouldn't be reliable. Well, I just bought a bunch of double density 3.5" disks to use with my Apple //gs and I got to thinking about this. Is it because of the drive or the controller? I would think it was the drive, if so, I have the Apple SuperDrive which can read/write high density disks except I don't have the SuperDrive controller for the //gs. Thus I'm stuck with the 800k format. Could I still use high density disks in this drive without problems? Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years

3
2
0 0

GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< One of the goals of the Apple I was to create a low cost machine. < < Basically I just wanted to give an apple example that not all engineers < all of the time, want to built the biggest, and most expensive things. < That is a bad generalization. It indeed is a bad generalization. As an engiener myself I found it annoying but let it pass. Actually the rules are simple. Good, Fast, Cheap... Pick any two. Enginering is about compromize, tradeoff and innovation. For a given product there are often many ways to implement but more often than not considerations at higher levels may dictate which are the best ways to go. They are not always bad either. If your corperate strategy is fault tolerence the hardware is likely not have extra bits, redundancy and other things needed to make that happen. That can and is more costly. On the other hand if you making really low cost means something else takes precedent. Some thins are a surprize to the uninitiated. For example fewer chips fewer interconnections and connectors often means lower cost and to most people surprize higher realiability. So the idea of Good, Fast and Cheap is not as obvious as first stated. Allison

28 years

3
2
0 0

Warming up an IMSAI P/S

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>Tim wrote: >> And by this point in time ferroresonant transformers were also being >> dropped in by folks who weren't happy with the original supply, either. >> Having used a large variety of S-100 boxes, far and away my favorite >> power supplies are ones with ferroresonant transformers. >I've been told that one shouldn't plug anything using a ferroresonant >transformer into a UPS. Perhaps someone who knows more about the >characteristics of ferroresonant transformers (and UPSes) can explain why, >or refute the claim. Ferroresonant transformers really really want sine waves as input. Many UPS's put out square waves, or slightly shaped square waves. There are many high-frequency harmonics in a square wave, and these disrupt the careful LC-resonance-at-saturation regulation mechanism. Not only do ferroresonant transformers want sine waves, they want sine waves of a specific frequency. I've never tried running a 60Hz unit at 50Hz, but I do know from hard experience what happens at 400 Hz :-(. There are UPS's that do put out nice sine waves, but these aren't all that commonly found. >(*) The only modern thing, anyhow. Did DEC use ferroresonant transformers in >any of their machines? DEC computers from 1970 onwards typically used switching supplies for all high-current supplies, though there are usually some low-current supplies with linear regulators. (There are some exceptions, such as the "large" 8/E using a linear supply while the "small" 8/F used a switching supply)... DEC did sell ferroresonant line conditioners (some of them quite large; one that I passed by took 440VAC 3-phase in and had about 70 15 amp circuits out), but these came before the computer. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

28 years

1
0
0 0

Someone was looking for DOS 1?

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

I may be mixing up lists here (must get that procmail filter setup) but I think someone was looking for a copy of Dos (MS) ver 1 or 1.1. If so let me know, I have a disk image of most old versions of IBM/MS dos stored away. Its useless on a hard disk system though as it has no support for them. Just let me know... Colan

28 years

2
1
0 0

Kids these days

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're giving me ideas. I saw a show once on CNN about a guy at Lawrence Livermore who is building robot bugs out of computer parts. They are powered by neural networks. He can even pull off a couple of legs and they'll still work. BTW, where do all of those researchers get neural network chips? > >I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using >computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers >were too expensive. I had one design based on a //c, but this was around >1986 when the //c was still relatively new. > >Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable >computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of), >disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers >to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for >just a few bucks. > >An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea >market parts. It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program >"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][ >board. This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack. > >Man, I wish I was a kid again! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/12/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

7
7
0 0

Somebody ought to grab this!

by bobstek＠ix13.ix.netcom.com

I just saw this posting - a free Fortune 32:16 in Utah! >I have this old, but functional, Fortune 32:16 computer system that >I'm trying to get rid of. I hate throwing away working hardware, so I >wanted to see if someone else could give it a good home before I'm >forced to dispose of it by other means. > >Details at http://www.xmission.com/~skb/fortune.html (I want it but my wife would kill me.) Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of lost SOLs

28 years

1
0
0 0

new interesting addition

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

installing the mathco will wont speed up anything EXCEPT for programs that USE it. i bought an xt that had a 16 bit vga card in it. i dont know if every 16 bit vga card works in an 8bit slot, but i guess it's worth a try anyway. david In a message dated 98-09-18 21:14:47 EDT, you write: << I've got an Intel Inboard card, but mounted in a 5150 with a Plus hardcard. I've also been searching for the piggyback with no luck so far. Would adding a 387 co-processer speed applications up significantly ? I'm also on the lookout for an 8-bit VGA card for this set-up. I have a 16-bit card with a switch for either 9 or 15 pin connectors. I don't suppose this would work in the 8-bit 5150 would it ? I know some 16-bit cards will work in an 8-bit. ciao larry >>

28 years

3
2
0 0

AS400 RPG books needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I'm going to have to refresh and improve my programming skills in RPG (not role playing games RPG) for the IBM AS400 system and am in search of good books on general RPG as well as RPG400 specific programming, >from a basic level to mid/advanced. Haven't even programmed in RPG in 6 or 7 yrs so I need to go way back to the beginnings. ___________________________________________________ Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer" Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/ ___________________________________________________

28 years

1
0
0 0

Kids these days

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> > That doesn't always work. luckily, there's one every year pretty nearby. > > That's where I got my Tandy 1000 with 4 LPT ports (I don't know how they > > all work, but they do, and I'm not gonna touch 'em). I was planning on > > using it as the controller, and hooking up printer guts and making it work > > by sending line feeds and spaces, and things like through BASIC. > > If you go to Doug Jones' page at the University of Iowa: > > http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~djones > > he has a link to some documentation and source code for gutting out > floppy drives so that you can control the stepper and spin the drive > motor. The link doesn't work. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

28 years

3
2
0 0

Need to bring up a power supply

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get >one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't >been powered in over a decade perhaps. What can I do to warm up the caps >and transformer before bringing it fully online? Anything? The "poor man's" substitute for a variac has always been a 120V light bulb in series with the AC. For something like an unloaded IMSAI power supply, a small (15W or so) bulb might be best for starters. That said, the capacitors are standard off-the-shelf items, and if you do blow 'em up, just put in some new ones. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill < Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how t < progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew machin < language. No, he knew how to code asm for a BASIC interpreter. I don't know when he stopped coding but many say the basic and OS used in the tandy 100 was the last effort he had a direct hand in. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Warming up an IMSAI P/S

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< And by this point in time ferroresonant transformers were also being < dropped in by folks who weren't happy with the original supply, either. < Having used a large variety of S-100 boxes, far and away my favorite < power supplies are ones with ferroresonant transformers. Compupro and ECT come to mind... I have both and they are really well engineerd bent metal. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Need to bring up a power supply

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to ge < one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't < been powered in over a decade perhaps. What can I do to warm up the cap < and transformer before bringing it fully online? Anything? Try a 100W light bulb in SERIES. It will limit the inrush current and if there is a short it will absorb the load. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Boy! You're starting a religious war here. Most of us are not fans of the guy. Here is my cent and a half (I wouldn't give two cents for Bill Gates): He is too buisy learning monopolistic laws to be bothered with programming. If he was still in the coding arena Visual C++ probably would not be the way it is today and the MFC would probably make sense too. That is IF he was programming AND was interested in it. I guess he's more on the design and what he calls innovation (plagiarism), he says let's do that and there are 2000 employees jumping on it. So my answer is he probably forgot what code looks like. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: oajones <oajones(a)bright.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 7:09 AM Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program? >I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill >Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how to >progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew machine >language. >-- >Computing since 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M >Amateur Radio since 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI >http://www.bright.net/~oajones >Rev. O. Alan Jones >

28 years, 1 month

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Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by oajones＠bright.net

I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how to progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew machine language. -- Computing since 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Amateur Radio since 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI http://www.bright.net/~oajones Rev. O. Alan Jones

28 years, 1 month

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XPOST-converting CDC7600 format to IBM/APPLE/ETC

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

If anyone can help this guy out, contact him directly: Jim Apple <jma150(a)psu.edu> University Park, PA USA - Friday, September 18, 1998 at 14:22:32 OKay, I'm quite desperate, so maybe someone out there is old (or smart) enough to help me out here. I have some old binary files that I need to open up on a present day system (PC,mac,unix). Here's the kicker, these files were originally encoded on the old CDC7600 mainframe computers. Yes, theyre that old. Anyway, I've tried numerous encoders/decoders, and notthing has worked. So, I'm shopping for new and wonderful ideas. So, if you have any clue about this, or if you can point me in the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you much. --jimi ps. please email me directly if possible at jma150(a)psu.edu

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

Phil Clayton wrote: >I really would love to get even just a copy of DOS Ver 1.0, OK! I'll >settly for Ver 1.1 DOS.. I have an old XT thats is needs it really bad.. >I'll send ya a return postage paid diskette mailer for a copy, can >anyone help ? If you plan to install it on your XT's hard drive, forget it. Ver 1.1 didn't support hard drives. > >I also have a copy someone gave me of Windows Ver 1.0 , have never tried >it yet.. >Has anyone seen this yet ? I have an old 386 set up with a boot manager and three different GUI's on different partitions. GEM 1.2, Windows 1.02 and IBM's Topview 1.01. Topview is the oldest with files dated March 1985 and the most primitive looking. GEM is the best looking and most usable. Looks similar to an early Mac. Dated September 1985. Windows looks a little untidy with garish default colors. These files are dated January 1986. I have them all set up to run in EGA. The only one that gave any trouble installing was Topview, which didn't work properly until I found a 1986 mouse driver. Regards, Hans

28 years, 1 month

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Source for Fuzzball?

by mbg＠world.std.com

28 years, 1 month

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Warming up an IMSAI P/S

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 10:19 PM 9/18/98 -0500, Wirehead wrote: > >> I measured the voltages across a power connector and got 9.4V, +17.56 and >> -17.86. A little high but I attribute that to a lack of a load. > >Actually, I think most power supplies in S100 mainframes tend to run a >bit high so they can handle the load and because it doesn't matter since >each board has it's own regulators anyway. > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > On some (static memory and other) cards the linear regulators get quite hot with the high input voltages. Doesn't help here that the 117 Volts is sometimes 122 Volts or higher. For these systems I run them with a 12V transformer wired as a 120 to 108V step down (buck) autotransformer. I first tried with a variac to see how low the voltage can go, usually below 100V with supplies with a lot of "margin", such as many of those open frame linear supplies. It also helped a Heath H-19 terminal which also has a linear power supply. A slightly related matter, I found that some XT motherboards can run on only 5 volts, using a 1.44 floppy. I did this many years ago using a 12 Volt battery directly as input to a 5V regulator as power supply. Not very noteworthly now with all the portables. -Dave

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by kozmik＠wave.home.com

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote: > Woz designed the Apple 1 with the goal of using as few chips as possible > because for him it was a mental exercise. He mentions this time and again > in numerous interviews. Having it inexpensive to replicate was a > by-product. That isn't true. If you re-read those interviews. You'll read how he spent most of his time going through catalogues finding the cheapest chips first, then deciding what kind of machine he could best make from those chips. One of the goals of the Apple I was to create a low cost machine. Basically I just wanted to give an apple example that not all engineers, all of the time, want to built the biggest, and most expensive things. That is a bad generalization. -- ============================================================--------- Dominique Cormann Email:kozmik@wave.home.com Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm

28 years, 1 month

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Warming up an IMSAI P/S

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Ok, so I have a 15W bulb in series with the P/S and it lit up. The fan didn't start blowing until the second time I powered up, but its blowing, albeit very slowly due to the limited power I assume. I didn't go the full Tony route because doing so would've required desoldering the entire transformer which wasn't an attractive prospect. I measured the voltages across a power connector and got 9.4V, +17.56 and -17.86. A little high but I attribute that to a lack of a load. At this point I feel pretty comfortable that the P/S is working pretty well, which surprised me. I expected a fight (but was hoping for the results I got). These old machines just refuse to die. I'm going to let it warm up for about an hour before I start plugging in boards. Thanks to Dave, Tony and Tim for your help!! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years, 1 month

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LEGO MINDSTORMS Robotics Invention System Now Shipping (fwd)

by spc＠armigeron.com

With all the talk recently about kids, robots and computers, I have to pass this along (sorry about the length): It was thus said that the Great LEGO MINDSTORMS News once stated: > > Retailers Brace for Overwhelming Consumer Demand for > LEGO(reg) MINDSTORMS(tm) Robotics Invention System(tm) > > The very first units of the LEGO MINDSTORMS Robotics Invention System > arrived on U.S. retail store shelves in limited quantities during the first > week of September. Since the Robotics Invention System previewed at the > American International Toy Fair, the Nurnberg International Toy Fair, and > the British International Toy & Hobby Fair last February, the buzz over the > first consumer robotics product that can actually react to its environment > has been gaining more momentum than even the LEGO Company expected. > > To date LEGO MINDSTORMS has received over 100,000 inquiries about its new > Robotics Invention System, half of those from enthusiastic LEGO fans who > registered online for a chance to be one of only 200 product beta testers. > With just 12,000 units made available for the initial shipment, and only > 75,000 additional units to be shipped through the end of the year, LEGO > MINDSTORMS is anticipating a run on the Robotics Invention System that will > quickly empty store shelves. It is expected to be one of the hottest > products of the holiday buying season. > > "LEGO MINDSTORMS has packaged high-tech, creativity and fun into a new form > that represents a whole new direction for toys," commented Terri Bartlett, > Communications Director for Toy Manufacturers of America, Inc., the > industry association. "I don't expect to see any LEGO MINDSTORMS sets left > on retail shelves after the holidays." > > "The clamor for our new LEGO MINDSTORMS robots is far beyond even our > expectations. Thousands of LEGO lovers of all ages have sent us requests to > be the first to own the Robotics Invention System. We are already > redoubling our efforts to produce enough product to handle the demand," > added Linda Dalton, Director, LEGO MINDSTORMS. > > > PRODUCT AVAILABILITY: > > In 1998, LEGO MINDSTORMS will be available for sale in the United States, > Canada, and the United Kingdom. > > > United States: LEGO MINDSTORMS will be available on or before October 1 at > the following retail stores: select Discovery Channel Stores, FAO Schwarz, > Fry's, Learningsmith, LEGO Imagination Centers (at Mall of America and > Downtown Disney), Media Play, select Noodle Kidoodle, select Target (from > November 1), Toys "R" Us, and Zany Brainy. Some stores have reported that > they are already sold out of initial inventories. > > It is also available in the following catalogs: TigerDirect, Hammacher > Schlemmer, FAO Schwarz, and The Robot Store Catalog. LEGO MINDSTORMS can > also be purchased through LEGO Shop at Home at (800) 453-4652 and (800) > 835-4386. > > > Canada: In Canada, LEGO MINDSTORMS will be available at Toys "R" Us and > through the Sears catalog. Product should be available at retail by October > 6. > > > United Kingdom: To find out more about your local UK stockist, please call > our UK information line on 0845 606 2043. > > > Other English-speaking Countries: In 1999 the English versions of LEGO > MINDSTORMS products will be launched in the following countries: Australia, > Hong Kong, Korea, New Zealand, Singapore, South Africa, and Taiwan. > > > Other language versions: In late 1999 we hope to launch localized versions > in the following languages: German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, > Swedish, Danish, Finnish and Norwegian. > > > Internet Sales: We are working on providing Internet sales. Further > details to come. > > > > Thank you for your interest. > > The LEGO MINDSTORMS team >

28 years, 1 month

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Kids these days

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I was just thinking about how kids these days are so damn lucky. They've got all this cheap, extraodinarily useful computer hardware sitting around in massive quantities that they can do all sorts of killer things with. I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers were too expensive. I had one design based on a //c, but this was around 1986 when the //c was still relatively new. Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of), disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for just a few bucks. An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea market parts. It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program "brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][ board. This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack. Man, I wish I was a kid again! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

OKay, for 2000 bonus points and the game, what was Micrografx Designer when it was first released under windows 1.X? (this is on topic as that was more than ten years ago). On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:09:48 -0400 "Albert J. McCann, Jr." <amc358(a)interserv.com> writes: >> On Friday, September 18, 1998 3:42 AM, >> CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu >> wrote: > >> >client was a stand-alone GEOS app. I know there were stand-alone >Win >> >apps, but I can't remember any names. > >> The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power". >> It's Windows 1.x > >Micrografx Designer was another. It ran a stand alone 2.x Windows. > >Al McCann > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

28 years, 1 month

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Kids these days

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Slightly off-topic, yet topical... I have, over the years taught many ham-radio license classes to hundreds of people, a good percentage of them kids, generally from age 10-11 and up. Apart from the required information relevant to the actual FCC questions.. I stress science, technology, and D-I-Y projects.. from the simplest 555-based LED flasher to working radio sets and computer interfacing. I go to ham radio swap meets and buy up all the old scopes and meters I can find, and then make them available to kids for the price of promising to *use* the gear. I like to use junk printers for robot supplies, because the control and drive electronics are already there, as well as an easy way of making them move via print commands sent to a parallel or serial port of any computer. Sam and those of you who are robot aficianados... I have seem some pretty fancy devices made up of the steppers and servos from old unwanted printers... especially the big old wide carriage dot-matrix units from 10 or more years ago, whose motors were big and pwerful. And there are a few young scientists left out there, in and among the Beavis And Butthead clones thronging our schools. Sigh. Don't get me started.... Cheers John

28 years, 1 month

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Need to bring up a power supply

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 04:51 PM 9/18/98 -0700, Sam wrote: > >I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get >one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't >been powered in over a decade perhaps. What can I do to warm up the caps >and transformer before bringing it fully online? Anything? > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com Connect a light bulb in series with the 120 volt line and power supply. Say 60 watts. The large caps you can estimate their capacity by seeing how long they will light a small lamp after the supply is turned off. (12 Volts for the +8Volt line, 24V for the +/-18 volt). Or you can time the discharge from the bleeder resistors. -Dave

28 years, 1 month

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Kids these days

by fauradon＠pclink.com

What's keeping you? I had the same wishes when I was a kid and somehow I still have them. Unfortunately they have evolved too: as a kid I wished I had a robot that could stack blocks (whoopee) or one that would run around without bumping in the furnitures (prety advanced). Today I wish I had one that would vacuum when it's needed, pick up the toys the kids leave all around the house, wash my car and changes the cat litter. What I'm getting at is that what we dreamed of as kids is not, by todays standards, dream material anymore: you have those programable cars and all sorts of talking toys (some of them animated) so the novelty and feeling of innovation or creation is not the same. Dreaming of building a robot that can pile blocks or solve the hanoi towers is not quite as fascinating as beating the big bad dude on level four of the latest nintendo game. But I still go and build stuff from spare parts, still keep steppers and gears in neatly ordered cabinets and still dream that one day, when I have the time, I'll build that robot or one of the numerous projects I have recorded in notebooks. In 1994 I started working on one "project" thinking to bring it to market, built a prototype thought of a better way to do it and wanted to make a second proto but it involved much more money than what I had at the time and it got filed with the rest. That is until I saw my idea in a catalog earlier this week. So I fired Quake II and logged on a server and fragged for the rest of the evening. Boy I feel like rambling today. Anyway there is not much that prevents from building the stuff you want, you just need to know what you want and how you want to do it and stick to it. Or did you loose that drive, that desire to build and bring innanimate things to (artificial) life? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 4:10 PM Subject: Kids these days > >I was just thinking about how kids these days are so damn lucky. They've >got all this cheap, extraodinarily useful computer hardware sitting around >in massive quantities that they can do all sorts of killer things with. > >I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using >computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers >were too expensive. I had one design based on a //c, but this was around >1986 when the //c was still relatively new. > >Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable >computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of), >disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers >to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for >just a few bucks. > >An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea >market parts. It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program >"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][ >board. This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack. > >Man, I wish I was a kid again! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/12/98] >

28 years, 1 month

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Kids these days

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- >Sure. But that's what I was getting at. There's so much advanced >tinkering that can be done very cheaply that we didn't have available to >us. I see the lego and K'nex stuff, follow the directions and there you are! >I don't think that's true at all. I think the really creative kids would >much rather build their own robot or program their own computer than sit >on their ass all day and play games. The problem is the atmosphere is >different. Everything is so nicely packaged that you don't need to get >inside your machine and learn about it. I think this needs to change. Exactly, with todays "creative sets" all the creativity is removed and prepackaged: you can buld a dino or a tower of death then you play with it for five minutes and get bored. Then you go back to your nintendo where you still have to figure out the secret of the grotto on level twelve. I'm not against nintendo and the such but they make entertainment easy and readilly available: no looking for parts, no playing with sharp objects or solvent based glue, they are the ideal "babysitters". >> But I still go and build stuff from spare parts, still keep steppers and >> gears in neatly ordered cabinets and still dream that one day, when I have >> the time, I'll build that robot or one of the numerous projects I have >> recorded in notebooks. >Me too. But my parts are all stashed in thrift stores, waiting for me to >pick them up :) I used to build stuff from old recycled materials, a few nails and lots of paint, they were "analog robots" (kid power) >What idea was that? Do a web seach on "Slam Man" >I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the fun the nerdy kids these >days could be having if they discovered classic computers. Got your point and I aggree but I guess the problem is more the shortage of nerdy kids rather than their lack of imagination. As a classic collector you must have gone to quite a few swapmeets or hamfest. I have not attended one without seeing at least half a dozen kids with caddies or huge backpacks and filling them up with anything marked free. I think they are (the nerdy kids) having a bunch of fun with classics. I can tell you that my kids (I hope they end up like me:) will have lots of stuff available for them to tinker with. >Actually, there is one kid I've been talking to in e-mail (although he's >19 now so "kid" may not be appropriate anymore). He built some sort of >digital logic contraption with relays out of an old elevator controller! >It sounds wild. He said it can do actual useful work, such as image >processing. I don't know the total details, but I'm trying to get him to >exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival. He said its very large and >would be a burden to move, but I'm trying to figure out a way to help him >get it to the venue. That sort of project should inspire many people >around his age to embark on similar projects of their own. Please keep pressuring him. I wish I could help local kids in projects and getting they interest on classic computers but there are no programs that deal with that here and it's a real pain to set one up if you don't have an educator's degree. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

28 years, 1 month

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Kids these days

by roblwill＠usaor.net

A couple of times, I've used old pie tins. I would make a mold out of something (like packed sand), and hold the pie tin with a tong-thing, and melt it into the mold using a blow torch. It's not the world's best thing, but it works pretty good for making things like wheels. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Kids these days > Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:16 PM > > On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're > > Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores. Also, look > around! Scrap yards, flea markets, etc. You can find many sources for > the raw materials for the framework. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/12/98] >

28 years, 1 month

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Dataproducts interface

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1061 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980919/8d54bcd6/at…

28 years, 1 month

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new interesting addition

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Did Microsoft actually make the hardware, like this thing and the Softcard? I'm pretty sure that their modern hardware (mice, joysticks talking barney) are licensed from someone else. > >> since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave me >> something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length 8 bit >> card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on it. it > >How funny. Back then they didn't have the clout to force computer >manufacturers to make faster hardware to run their slow, bloated >software, so they had to manufacture their own :) > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/12/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
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PDP-8 Core stack

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

I'm looking for a G104 and G227 cards for a PDP-8 (these are two of the three cards needed for a 4K core stack) Alternatively a complete 4K or 8K core stack would be sufficient :-) --Chuck McManis

28 years, 1 month

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Gooeys

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Sounds like an X term, it's been around for so many years, yawn..... Kevin At 03:57 PM 18/09/98 +0100, you wrote: >>> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is >>> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at >>> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> . > >Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've >seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of >crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software >sounds awesome though, if it works... > >cheers > >Jules >> > > ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project Office (604) 601-3426; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

At 10:54 AM 18/09/98 -0500, you wrote: >The 386 was important, but not because of performance. Virtual memory, >flat 32-bit address space, and V86 mode were all essential to the success Intel x86 series have anything _but_ a flat 32 bit address space! The flat memory model is one of the positive features of the 68K series. I taught a computer architecture course a couple of summers ago and one of the most challenging parts of the course was explaining the addressing schemes used on the 386 and above. Kevin ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project Office (604) 601-3426; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

28 years, 1 month

5
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Gooeys

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is >> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at >> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> . Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software sounds awesome though, if it works... cheers Jules >

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Dominique Cormann wrote: > You brought up the perfect example of how it *isn't* just marketing. > > The imac did well because of: > > * Good marketing of the product and... > > * Realizing that non-geek ppl want an attractive computer that is as > simple to use as any other electric appliance in the house (it should > packaged similar to other attractive household appliances). Do you think the socially retarded engineers at Apple designed the case? Hardly. I can guarantee you it was someone more affiliated with the marketing department. > * People wanted a cheaper mac Engineers didn't decide this. If engineers had their way your computer you'd be able to stick your dirty dishes inside your computer and have it wash them while you surf the web. Engineers aren't mindful of cost (and therefore price). However, marketers are. As for the next three of your points, it is speculation (and opinion) on your part. > * They have attractive educational discounts and bundles. (The > university I go too cannot stock enough of these things, to meet student > demand). Marketing. > * This computer is far easier to network up in large groups. (Another > plus for schools). I would guess marketing had a hand in defining this. Anyway, I'm sure a lot of people are getting pissed by now of this pointless argument. I'll move it offline. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Classic Computers FS

by WHoagIII＠aol.com

Gentlepeople: Sorry, I am located in Portland, Oregon. I also have a bunch of 8" floppys both HH & FH, Shugart, Tandon, CDC, Mitsubishi & NEC. Also some 8"HDs, Quantum etc. All untested. Any interest? Paxton Hoag

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > It would take the PC getting to the 386 before it had the < > performance perceived to be needed to attract attention. < < The 386 was important, but not because of performance. Virtual memory, < flat 32-bit address space, and V86 mode were all essential to the succes < of Windows 3. Isn't that what I meant! Performance is not exclusivly a speed metric. All those features of the 386 (its 32bitness) is the performance improment required to make GUI software more praticeable. However it's address space while better than the 286 is anything but flat. Look at teh 68k for the definition of a flat address space. < Have you ever tried GEOS? It is a very acceptable GUI with nice Yes, long time ago. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have a (unsealed) copy of DOS 1.1 as well. I've never seen a copy of DOS 1.0.... still looking.... Unfortunately I was out killing brain cells at the time DOS 1.0 was released and have only vague hazy recollections that come and go with intermittant flashbacks. What was the question again? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 9/18/98 1:16 PM On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Marvin wrote: > I've been looking for a number of years now for DOS 1.0. The best I have > been able to do was to buy a still shrinkwarpped DOS 1.1 a few years ago. > Does anyone know/remember how long DOS 1.0 was actually out before it was > upgraded? I too have a DOS 1.1 package. I'm wondering if 1.0 was only release WITH the PC, and was not available separately as the 1.1 upgrade was? Someone who was paying attention back then then should be able to shed some light on this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Sep18.131632.1767.64218; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:16:40 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA11825; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:31 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA43978 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:26 -0700 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.54]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA12449 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:25 -0700 Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15780 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918101330.2754H-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows In-Reply-To: <3602751A.2B676A5F(a)rain.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I feel that people also dismissed the first Mac for the same reason. (I < had limited apps to start with, but wider initial acceptance would've po < changed that.) If they had gone on ease of use, elegance of interface, a < technological superiority, they wouldn't have bought slow, clunky DOS-ba < XT's instead. The Amiga suffered the same fate. Drastically superior < technically, but perceived by the business world as only a toy. Multimed < for games and kids until Gates and IBM told them that this new "multimed < thing they came up with was going to be the wave of the future. Ok, Boys and Girls. Fetch a cup of your favorite drink and follow along. There were events and products that had to happen before we could make the quantum leap of faith to GUI interfaces. One of which was a competent and reasonably inexpensive platform to execute on. this is about technology convergence on a set of parameters needed to produce a GUI based system. I will touch on a few of them here. At the time people were looking for more serious machines the Apples were in businesses as were trs80s. S100 crates however were acknowledge as more potent *IF* the user was willing to get into the guts. At the time of the 5150 intro S100 crates with 6mhz z80s and 8mhz 8088s were on the desks of some (compupro 8/16 for example) and setting the standard for performance that PC would not achieve for several years. The problem as I saw it back then (1980 -early 82)was the number of possible systems you could buy and their attractiveness beyond appearance. Apples were fast, had graphics and were fairly easy to configure and find tons of cheap software. Many vendors also supported Apples with hardware add ons like the Softcard extending it's performance and range of executeable software. TRS80s were popular as they also offered a soft introduction for the hardware timid. Game software may have factored in the Apple success at the time as well. BUT, they were 8bit systems. Those that needed raw computing power and couldn't afford the cost of a decent PDP-11, Nova or HP system would bite the hardware bullet and go S100, Multibus, STD or VME busses for it.They also eyed the 68000 and 8086 series of 16bit cpus for a bit more computational power and larger address spaces that their bigger programs would need. The XT at first really was lackluster. It wasn't until it started showing up with a 5 or 10 mb hard disks and at least 256-512k of ram that people could see it as a potential engine of greater performance than the Apple or the others of the time. It offered the prople that hit the hardware path something less hardware intensive like the Apple or TRS80 but with the potential of 16bit performance. That last item was selling hard at the time as the next place to be and it wasn't IBM alone saying that. Even the S100 oriented knew that already. You see the idea of graphics, WYSIWYG text editing and other memory intensive tasks were already being seen in products like DBASE, Multiplan and others. This extended to push people from the floppy to larger fixed drives as well. So in the end it was the need for more performance that would alter the shape of the early 80s computer market with the outcome fairly uncertain till the late 80s. There is no small coincidence that when 8bit systems were common storage of hundres of kilobytes were adaquate. The 8088 made megabyte a word used and storage was in the same range. The 80286 and the 68000 would stay in the megabyte range but the software was using more of it and the storage formerly in the 5-10mb range was now reaching for the 40-80mb or more realm. The advent of the 32bit 386 and the faster 68010/020 made memories also move from the 512k to 2mb range in to the serious 2-8mb range with disks pushing the 100mb region and growing fast this would push RLL, EDSI and eventually IDE is the quest for more space. One more notch up. While GUIs aren't mentioned as yet, they were not the standard. Computer performance and graphics had to come up a notch or two to support that and offer acceptable prformance. Its offering of a less complex user interface would take many years to be realized and those already knowledgable of command lines saw them as slow and awkard as they sometimes were. It would take one more notch up to 32bit computing to establish the platform that GUIs needed to succeed. When it happend those timid people looking for a computer solution without the languages and hardware jumped on the bandwagon. Since Apple chose the 68000 series there were there a bit sooner and had polish off some of the rough edges. They were first, best didn't really matter. It would take the PC getting to the 386 before it had the performance perceived to be needed to attract attention. What was missed is that in the time line GUIs needed 32bit cpus. The VAX, ECLIPSE, SUN and other worstations already knew that but at $50,000 or so they were not in the running. We are talking in the under $5000 bracket throughout this dicertation. Graphics require big address spaces or at least larger than a 16bit word could easily provide. Motorola was already there with the 68000 and Intel was still working their way to it and the 286 a 16 bit cpu was not it yet! So from the time of the PC introduction to the day of the GUI is long, nearly seven years and lot's of other things had to happen along the way, each significant in it own right and also contributing to system as we know them now. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Gooeys

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 06:36 PM 9/17/98 -0700, Sam wrote: > >One of the most useful aspects of Linux when I was using it way back when >was the virtual terminals. One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> . It's graphical remote-control software like the Win-world's pcAnywhere program, but it's not platform-specific. They hand out source code and define the protocol, and there are servers available for several platforms, and viewers (controlling ends) for even more platforms. Incredibly, you can control your Windows or Unix X Window box from an old DOS box, a Palm Pilot, or many other machines. It runs over TCP/IP, but I'm sure eventually someone will adapt it to direct serial or dial-up interface. What does this mean for the classic collector? To me, it means being able to control old machines from different rooms, or to put old computers to better use, allowing me to peek into windows of my present-day computers. - John

28 years, 1 month

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Classic Computers FS

by WHoagIII＠aol.com

Gentlepeople; I am liquidating my warehouse and I have a lot of collectable computers for sale. Following is a rough list of what I have. If interested please e-mail whoagiii(a)aol.com. Paradise Convertable DBS 16 (MPM) IBC IMI 5021H Onyx C5000 Vector 4 Vector 3 Kaypro II Zeus 4 Mindset CPU only Zorba Plexus P/55 Chieftain S50 Altos 8000-12 with MTU (tape) Altos 580s & 586 uSci Cromemco systems 1, 2 & 3 XORI Ampro Little Board 80186 MS-Dos Lomas Data Products S100 Kurtzweil/AI KUSPPC CPU only Morrow Decision 1 with HD/Floppy Compupro S100 Televideo 8/16-40 Xerox 820, 8/16 Multibus dual Sun Intel iPDS 8080 Portable(several) wi E-prom Programmer Intel Multibus 310s, 330s & 380s Heath/Zenith Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives 2 other Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives Misc 5" Hard and floppy external disk drives & cases DEC Vax 730 Wi R80 DEC TU 81 Plus Several RA 81s DEC MINK 11s DEC Rainbows & 350s Tek 43XX & Tek terminals (Many 4025, 4028, 4029, 4105, 4107, 4108, 4109, 4208, 4211, Mice Keyboards) HP Integrals HP 150 I & II HP 9810A, 9815B, 9825B, 9830B, 9845B, Many peripherals and interface cables. Separate list availiable on request. I am open to reasonable offers. Please reply to my e-mail address and not the list. I am able to ship UPS, FedEX or USPS and with special arrangements, commercial trucking. Paxton Whoagiii(a)aol.com

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< CP/M actually stands for Control Program/Monitor. Yes. Taken from the first paragraph of An Introduction to CPM features and facilities version 1.4 1976. (my V1.4 manual!) QUOTE: CP/M is a monitor control program for microcomputer system development which uses IBM-compatable flexible disks for backup storage. Using a mainframe based upon Intel's 8080 microcomputer, CP/M provides a general enviornment for program construction, storage, and editing, along with assembly and program check-out facilities. It goes on from there. < While I don't know for sure, I suspected PL/M stands for Programming < Language/Monitor and not Programming Language/Microprocessor. No, PL/M is Programming Language/Microprocessor It derives it's structure from PL/1 and can be viewd as an integer version of it like smallc is to full C. < By 1978, Sharp and Zenith had yet to even create computer divisions, le < alone have computers running CP/M. Zenith at the time was doing TVs and would later aquire Heathkit who did already have products (H8 and H11). generally speaking the japanese companies like Sharp, NEC, Epson and other would be a bit later. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have to admit that I'd love to know (from Gary) whether the < similarities between CP/M PIP and RT-11 (or even OS/8) are < simply coincidental or if there is something more to it... Gary was a DEC system user and did a fair amount of cross development on DEC platforms. DEC systems (PDP-8, PDP10, PDP-11 and later VAX) were the models he knew and had used. There is no coincidence that CP/M and DEC command lines and utilities were so similar. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by allisonp＠world.std.com

that CP/M could have possibly been our main stream OS.. How could so ma < great ideas get lost in the big shuffle..? Yes I ahve a lot of the 8bit stuff like DRGRAPH. < I know everyone has been talking about GUI's, and according to this arti < Digital Research did alot of work in this area. And real product for both 8 and 16 bit systems. < Also Digital Research back in 1989 released a very good DOS called DRDOS < used this for awhile back in 1990 and was very impressed with its featur < then MS came out with a clone of it called MSDOS ver 6.0.. I still own < several original copies of DRDOS in unopened packages.. What you missed is MPM-86 and CCPM that DRI did before DRDOS! Btoh of wich were a significant advancement over DOS. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 04:19 PM 9/16/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Anyway, sorry for the rambling. But I hope you see my point. The >majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a >caption in a magazine compels them to. Buy my stuff. Buy my stuff. Buy my stuff. Is it working yet? This isn't an ordinary disembodied voice. Only *you* hear it in your head, so it should be extra-effective. The usual technoid misanthropy aside, "buy what everyone else is buying" isn't a bad strategy if it's something that's not central to your life. Do you spend as much time researching, optimizing and comparing your decisions for buying food as you do with buying computers? > The majority of the people buying >into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful >product. I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right. Like <http://www.doodoo.com/> ? Someone's beat you to it. - John

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:10 PM 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >There was never any O/S or GUI war. After the PC and MS-DOS, Apple never >owned any serious hearts and minds except for a few niches like desktop >publishing and graphics design. DR's GEM was never a serious contender, I disagree. There are plenty of people who are mac fanatics (or Atari/Amiga/Etc fanatics) but because their employer/school/software requires MS/PC stuff, they switch. The vast majority of people who really don't care one way or another; they just use whatever they have at work/school/etc, or whatever their grandson said they should get, or even what the guy at circuit city said they should use. Personally, I feel the lack of Mac Clones is what kill^h^h^h^h wounded the Mac. An awful lot of people 10-15 years ago looked at buying a full-price Mac, a Full-price IBM/Compaq/Etc, and a PC's Limited clone, and let their budget do the choosing. I know I did -- I bought a used clone motherboard and case, added a disk drive, brand-x video card with a composite monitor, and so on. There's no way I (or a lot of other people) could afford, let alone justify the cost of a name brand computer. (The same is true, to a lesser extent of the Atari ST (which was also hampered by Tramiel) and possibly the Amiga.) >nobody has mentioned the real reason for the success of Windows 3.x: >Solitaire. Just as sex videos made VHS a standard, Solitaire is the one >thing that kept users from simply deleting Windows 3.0 after the standard I agree completely on this. Although, I explained its inclusion as a tool to help people get used to the concept of and to practice with the mouse. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Oh no, not another imporvement!

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Over the course of the next two weeks, here at Power Tech, we are being migrated from Lotus Cack-mail to Lotus Not. It just happens that I shall be on holiday in California at the time, doing things like vintage computer festivals. The concurrence of these two happenings means I am going to POSTPONE the list for the time being... no saying how long it will take me to get back on, though! Nice knowing you all! Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by mbg＠world.std.com

I have to admit that I'd love to know (from Gary) whether the similarities between CP/M PIP and RT-11 (or even OS/8) are simply coincidental or if there is something more to it... It sure looked like a PIP from V3B of RT-11 (I remember we did some comparisons back in the 80's...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years, 1 month

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new interesting addition

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave me something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length 8 bit card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on it. it has a cable that plugs into the 8088 socket and the board does all the processing. basically turns an xt into an at with lots of memory. i got everything, disks manuals and the special cable. i guess for a fun vacation project, i'll see about getting win3.1 running in standard mode or maybe even os2 1.3 for a challenging project... david

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's a tradeoff between product quality and marketing quality most of the time. Back to GUIs, I think that a GUI is very useful for some things. For example, let's say I want to look at the files in a directory and copy five certain ones. It's easiest to do with a GUI. Graphical software can use either. AutoCAD had a CLI up to the latest version, not sure if they took it out. It was a Command-line drafting program, usable very efficiently. Only now have they jumped on the Windows buttons-pop-up-when-mouse-moves nonsense. One GUI I really appreciate is the early Mac GUI, for being almost as simple and clear as a CLI. That was really a user-friendly computer. But the lessons of PARC and early Apple were forgotten and turned into a who-can-make-the-nicest- 3d-menu competition. >Oh, I disagree. > >> If anything, Sony had better marketing. Many people continued to refer >> to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s. It is widely >> believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the >> longer recording time per tape. JVC rarely even mentioned this feature >> in advertising. > >M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G > >Mac vs. Windows - who won? Microsoft. Why? Marketing. > >PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won? Intel. Why? Marketing. > >Those are simply two of the most obvious examples. > >Anyway, sorry for the rambling. But I hope you see my point. The >majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a >caption in a magazine compels them to. The majority of the people buying >into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful >product. I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/12/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:05 PM 9/16/98 PDT, you wrote: >Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's >never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's Never advertised, sure. Never reviewed, possibly. Don't think I ever saw an ad for the Sony Mavica I've got, and I know I never read a review. Bought it because a friend had one. I don't recall seeing much advertising for the Voicemail system I have. Saw a mention of it somewhere, got info, compared what it could do to others, and bought it. It's still the only consumer-priced system I've seen that can do what I need it to. The mechanics I take my (non-Land-Rover) cars to doesn't have an ad in the phone book. Doesn't need one; they get all the business they need by word of mouth. If you need a big ad, your customers aren't doing your selling for you. Which of course does not mean that the majority of the idiots out there don't buy things simply because some guy in a fancy suit says they should. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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PDP-11/84 & Cipher tape drive questions

by rexstout＠uswest.net

Lets start with the PDP-11/84... What is that console distribution board connected to the DB-25 port in the back? Remote power control, dumb terminal or what? What's the pinout of the connector? And about terminals... What do I need to hook up a dumb terminal? It'll be either a VT-220(after a good cleaning of the keyboard and a switch or two replaced) or WY-99GT. OK, when I turn on the system the DC on light turns on and the LED's just show a boring "77" every time... What does that mean? Anyone have a list of error codes for the 11/84? And then Cipher... Got two of them actually, the nicer one is labeled as an IBM 4968(goes with my IBM Series/1). The big noisy one says it's a Cipher 0920640-98-125OU. So, what kind of interface do I need to hook it up to my 11/84? And is there any easy way to use them with a PC or Mac? And while I'm talking about drives, does anyone in the PDX area have any cheap or free drives or Unibus cards laying around they don't need? -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | --------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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Gooeys

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > And therein lies one of the main reasons I use a GUI (and would have a hard > time going back to DOS-only.) Yes, it's possible to run multiple > programs/sessions/etc. under a CLI (use to do it with a terminal and a > CompuPro 8/16 under MPM16 -- that was a great system!) but a GUI, with the > ability to arrange windows, cut and paste, etc. is a definite advantage. Certainly. One of the most useful aspects of Linux when I was using it way back when was the virtual terminals. I could switch between something like 32 different virtual terminals and be doing all sorts of stuff on each. Very powerful, very useful. Its what a computer was intended to allow one to do with it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Web Standards Project (Off-topic but useful)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I wanted to share with you guys what I learned last night at a meeting of the Web Guild (affiliated with the Association of Internet Professionals). Basically a SIG for web development. The speakers introduced the audience to the Web Standards Project, which is an effort to force web browser vendors to confirm to ONE (and only one) standard so that the web isn't such a kludge. Check out the whole deal at http://www.webstandards.org. Its very promising. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Rare Find

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Sounds like some type of terminal. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: John R. Keys, Jr. <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Rare Find > Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 7:22 PM > > I have not been posting my latest finds because most are not that rare but > yesterday I got Japanese monitor for $5 that is made of wood. The casing is > wood shaped like the new iMac believe it or not but smaller. It has gold > plated trim around the screen. uses 220v only and has a 9pin mono connector. > The name on it in English is Intech Systems model CP2054B SN 1002. It has a > RS232 serial port, a Centronics 8 Bit Parallel port and is in good shape. I > can not read the Japanese writing on the front or back of it. If anyone has > anymore info on it I'd like to hear it. John >

28 years, 1 month

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Printronix Info #2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello to All.. Thank you so much for the various respomses to my P 300 inquiry. In doing some research, I discovered several sites with info, but nothing specific about this model, other than someone here in SoCal who has several of them for sale ($500..... not!). I have a call in to see if they might have docs and, now that I know such a thing exists.... an RS232 or Centronics I/O card. I would like to re-iterate my previous request, though... I am interested in buying, trading, copying, or otherwise acquiring a nice set of manuals for this printer.. engineering, user, etc. I like to have the docs for stuff... it cuts down on the guess-work when they break. ;) Thanks again for all the other info... and especial regards to the individual who took the time to FAX me some critical material on VMS magtape issues... taken from an important book I don't have. Yet. I am further interested in getting a VMS 5.x Grey Wall. Purchase/ship/trade/whatever. Cheers John

28 years, 1 month

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Rare Find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I have not been posting my latest finds because most are not that rare but yesterday I got Japanese monitor for $5 that is made of wood. The casing is wood shaped like the new iMac believe it or not but smaller. It has gold plated trim around the screen. uses 220v only and has a 9pin mono connector. The name on it in English is Intech Systems model CP2054B SN 1002. It has a RS232 serial port, a Centronics 8 Bit Parallel port and is in good shape. I can not read the Japanese writing on the front or back of it. If anyone has anymore info on it I'd like to hear it. John

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M Disks may be Northstar

by karlm＠blitzen.canberra.edu.au

Hi, I was showing those CP/M disks I found to a friend of mine (also a computer collector), and some of them are marked as being for a Northstar, if anyone is interested in these let me know, I'd like to see them go to a good home. Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au

28 years, 1 month

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Here's something to consider.

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I'm looking thru this June 1977 issue of Byte. Inside I find an ad from Apple on page 14&15. The copy starts "Introducing Apple II", which makes sense as the Apple II was introduced at the West Coast Computer Faire in April 1977, so this ad was probably one of the first for the Apple II. Now, one of the great things about the Apple II was its ability to display color graphics, apparently a big deal at the time, as supposedly no other machine in the home computer class had this capability (save for the S-100 machines with a Cromemco TV Dazzler, but that was an add-on, as opposed to the Apple II's built-in capability). Yet there is another ad on page 61 for the Compucolor 8001. The Compucolor boasts pretty much the same features as the Apple II (64K RAM, cassette storage, built-in BASIC) although it runs on an 8080. However, the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192, 8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped graphics). The Compucolor also had "mini-disk drives" (I assume 8") available for it separately. The retail price advertised for the Compucolor was $2,750, very comparable with a similarly equipped Apple II. Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer with built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is ever made in any general computer history texts. The obvious difference between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous success for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran. The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's share of the mention. I think its odd that a system such as the Compucolor, extremely comparable to the capabilities of the Apple II (if not more so in some respects) hardly gets mentioned in the computer history books I read. Maybe someone who is cognizant of that era can shed some additional light on this. The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing product in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply. You've got to advertise. Apple was obviously more masterful at this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Apple ][ programmer's reunion

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

As someone who was there, I can tell you all it was a blast. :) :) :) The turnout was pretty high and everyone was pleasntly surpised at that. The food was even good! Woz was great form; gratious, humble, and sense of humor fully intact; people brought _all_ manner of Apple hardware for him to sign ;-) So many good people, and the memories just flowed... -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > -----Original Message----- > From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 4:30 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple ][ programmer's reunion > > www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/index.html

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>a nuisance. I always have at least two DOS windows open under 95 for when And therein lies one of the main reasons I use a GUI (and would have a hard time going back to DOS-only.) Yes, it's possible to run multiple programs/sessions/etc. under a CLI (use to do it with a terminal and a CompuPro 8/16 under MPM16 -- that was a great system!) but a GUI, with the ability to arrange windows, cut and paste, etc. is a definite advantage. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

4
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Printronix Info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a < Printronix P 300 line printer? Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least < the I/O pinouts? Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series. Use DEC LAV-11, LP-11 interfaces. < Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry < ribbons for the Decwriters? Not that I couldn't kludge one from < something the same width.... Yes. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Printronix Info

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

> Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry >ribbons for the Decwriters? Not that I couldn't kludge one from >something the same width.... Have you tried 1-800-DIGITAL? You *will* have to know the model number of the printer you need the ribbon for. Tim.

28 years, 1 month

1
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Printronix Info

by jpl15＠netcom.com

To the List-Group, greetings! Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a Printronix P 300 line printer? Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least the I/O pinouts? This machine was last in service on a Prime system, and has a large (36-pin??) Winchester connector fitted. It's in prime shape [STOP THAT!!!] and I'm wishing to make it part of the DEC managerie. Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry ribbons for the Decwriters? Not that I couldn't kludge one from something the same width.... O Yes: I would entertain the notion of purchasing (cheaply) and having shipped a VAXVMS 5.x Grey Wall... I saw one advertised a while ago but it's gone now. Thanks y'all John

28 years, 1 month

2
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Tandy Model 3000 HL

by oajones＠bright.net

I'm still cleaning out my basement parts supply. I found a Tandy 3000 HL motherboard and the owner's manual. The last time I tried this motherboard it was acting flaky. But if anyone wants it for parts you can have it. Just pay for shipping and its yours. Have a nice day! --Alan

28 years, 1 month

1
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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have. < < Was that how GEM was started? A project for CPM, then later moved to DO < and the atari platform? Yes. It started on 8bit cpm as GSS kernal and GKS graphics extensions also with the DR Graph product. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
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Commodore 64 stuff

by oajones＠bright.net

I have the following items for sale: 1. Cartridges: Music Machine Super Snapshot, V5, with screen copy (with Docs) Fast Load Visible Solar System Oil's Well 2. C2N Cassette Unit 3. Aprospand 64 (holds 4 cartidges/switchable) I would like to sell this stuff as a package. I'm asking $20. If anyone is interested please send me email. --Alan

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G < < Mac vs. Windows - who won? Microsoft. Why? Marketing. Wrong, wrong, wrong! MS won because intel won and several downs manufacturers of clones won. Mac was a single point product that was also for much of it's life a closed product. People do like the appearence of competition so intel boxen did get a little cheaper while Macs did have like product pressure. < PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won? Intel. Why? Marketing. Too little to late. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WI < > interfaces. Most of those same people are running GUIs now. And ther < > evidence that the GUIs were forced on them. First off the early GUI interfaces were pretty primitive and deserved a sneer. The GUI interface we know and love is far more powerful than the originals with the ability to manipulate data and objects. < The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we < wouldn't be running GUIs. This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xe < work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xero < people. Windows might have been released later, but it still would hav < happened. And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have. Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
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C128D

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version. Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch) or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

6
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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Captain Napalm said: > Nope. Porn. Sony would not allow the adult film industry the liceses > required to produce Betamax tapes. The adult film industry could, however, > get VHS licenses that that probably drove customer demand for VHS over > Betamax. At least that's the story I heard. I recently read a news story on the net regarding net.porn and porn on DVDs. A Sony spokesman was quoted as saying the porn thing was a major reason for the death of Betamax and they dang well were gonna make sure people could license DVD for porn so DVD wouldn't go the way of Betamax. Roger "Another unsubstantiated net.rumor slung your way" Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 1 month

1
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Lisa floppy problems

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 16 Sep 98 at 0:14, Tony Duell wrote: > One interesting 'feature' of the 800K Mac drive (and I suspect the 400K > drive is similar) is that there's a pin on the connector (pin 9, I think) > which will trigger the eject mechanism if clamped to ground. It's not > used on the Mac AFAIK. Maybe it was used on the Lisa. I suspect that the feature is used by the Apple II family. External 3.5" drives for the II have an eject switch. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 1 month

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Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote: > How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even > for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the > following... Feel free to add things > > A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. > a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for > the states. > > A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV > standards (almost all will do that). > > An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat screen displays? Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 1 month

4
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Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> writes: > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..? > Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old > CP/M's.? Kaypro: yes Osborne: I dunno I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power somewhere on the ribbon cable. But it's been a while since I had one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone else to jump in and correct me. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Uncle Roger said: >I came across a couple of small systems ... > that are the size of a small shoebox ... > Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines ... > I would > love to find such a box with something more current ... http://www.mod.com/html/desktop_products.html The only thing that might possibly link this to being on-topic is that this is Ken Olsen's new company. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 1 month

2
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Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Most flat screen displays use analog SVGA signals. They're trying to elminiate SVGA, and have pure digital signals, which is how it should be for a TFT screen. When this happens, you'll have a harder time using it with old machines. Eventually, CRTs may be relegated to second place (kinda like dot matrix printers). >> for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the >> following... Feel free to add things >> >> A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. >> a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for >> the states. >> >> A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV >> standards (almost all will do that). >> >> An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates > >The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at >TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a >Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that >seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten >years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are >snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? >Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat >screen displays? > >Phil > > > >************************************************************** >Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport >University of Leicester > >Tel (0)116 252-2231 >E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
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C128D

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

No, this is an internal PSU. > >>Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version. >>Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch) >>or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU. > >Is this by any chance the same power supply used by the C-128, A-500, >A-600, A-1200? I know that for these systems the best powersupply is the >one that came with the A500 as it has the highest wattage. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
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Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

One RGB monitor that I have is a Magnavox Professional. It has composite input, RGB input, and another input that I don't have the cable for. I like it because it also is capable of displaying Monochrome (green) display in either CGA/RGB, Composite, or Monochrome mode. I think the third connector is to connect it to a Hercules card, but I don't have the cable (not the same as RGB cable. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Phil Beesley <PB14(a)leicester.ac.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D) > Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 8:10 AM > > On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote: > > > How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even > > for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the > > following... Feel free to add things > > > > A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. > > a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for > > the states. > > > > A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV > > standards (almost all will do that). > > > > An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates > > The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at > TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a > Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that > seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten > years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are > snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? > Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat > screen displays? > > Phil > > > > ************************************************************** > Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport > University of Leicester > > Tel (0)116 252-2231 > E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 1 month

1
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C128D

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

You don't have the schematics for this anywhere? The PSU is separate and it looks like I could plug in a PC power supply if I knew pinout. As for useful things, I would also suggest an older model printer, a 5.25" drive, and, if possible, an 8" drive. Then, I would say a VOM is obligatory either way. > >This is rapidly becoming a FAQ here - how to convert between 110V and >220V mains. > >By far the easiest and safest way is to use a step-up transformer. It >doesn't need to be an isolating transformer - an autotransformer is fine. >You feed 110V in and get 220V out. Since 240V -> 110V transformers are >fairly common in the UK, I would guess you can get the reverse in the States. > >If you can't find a suitable transformer, then there's a sort-of kludge >that works, but you need to take a little care when wiring it up. > >Get a mains transformer with _2_ 115V (or thereabouts) primary windings. >Such transformers are fairly common, since by connecting the primaries in >parallel you can use them in the States, and by connecting them is series >(230V) you can use them in Europe. It doesn't matter what the secondaries >are, as you're not going to use them. > >Connect the windings in series, like you would for 230V mains. Connect >the output across the 2 windings. Connect the 115V mains across one of >them. In effect you're using the primaries as an autotransformer. > >The power rating of the transformer that you use should be about twice >that of the computer you want to run. That gives a reasonable safety margin. > >Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is >against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US >outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever into. > >It may be possible to modify the PSU. If it uses an iron-core 50Hz/60Hz >transformer, then look to see if there are 2 primaries wired in series >for 220V mains. Connect them in parallel for 110V mains - taking care to >get the relative polarity correct. I'll not give any more details, >because it really depends on the PSU design what you should do. > >For a switcher, the input circuit is often a bridge rectifier for 230V >mains. If you can convert this to a voltage doubler, and if there's no >line-frequency transformer for a start-up supply, then it should work. > >A lot of switchers have 2 smoothing capacitors in series - look for 2 >large capacitors of about 470uF at 200V. Connecting the centre-tap of >these to one side of the mains (after the switch/fuse/filter) will do it. >Often there's a link on the PCB (marked 'link for 115V' or something like >that) for this purpose. Again, knowing how PSUs work is a great help here. > >But I'd recomend the step-up transformer in your case. It avoids >modification, and it's safe. > >How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even >for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the >following... Feel free to add things > >A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. >a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for >the states. > >A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV >standards (almost all will do that). > >An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates > >A dumb terminal (or a PC + terminal emulator program) > >One of those RS232 quicktesters with red/green LEDs. (I use mine more >than my Tektronix datacomms analyser) > >An assortment of cables. In particular IEC mains leads (like PC mains >leads), RS232 cables (straight and null-modem), video cables (RCA - RCA, >BNC, PL259, etc) > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Rainbows and S/W for sale.

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, spotted this on the comp.sys.dec.micro newsgroup. Please reply to him, not me. I love my Rainbow but don't know anything about his :-) Also, you probably should check out ftp.update.uu.se in the /pub/rainbow directory to see whether there's anything there that might suit your Rainbow software needs better. Or check it out to see what a wonderful variety of reasons there is to get a Rainbow! - Mark vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Path: Supernews70!SupernewsNP!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.r cn.net!rcn!news-xfer.netaxs.com!feed.centuryinter.net!not-for-mail From: aljohnson(a)centuryinter.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: FS: Misc DEC Software for DEC rainbow and Hardware Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 04:52:05 GMT Organization: CENTURYinter.net Lines: 9 Message-ID: <N.091598.235205.05(a)ppp093.av.centuryinter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp093.av.centuryinter.net X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:67074 comp.sys.dec.micro:9067 I have misc software including wordprocessing, multiplan, operating stuff for dec rainbows and similar machines. Have several rainbow machines and some cables. Parting out all of it CHEAP. Software a buck a box, Hardware a buck a part. Most but not all software is still in plastic. Got to get rid of it. Please email with any question. Allen ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

28 years, 1 month

1
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Lisa floppy problems

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

--- Eric Smith wrote: Marion.Bates(a)Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote: > As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down = > to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's = > auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, = > whereas the Mac version does not. No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject. The eject when the white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply. Eric --- end of quote --- I asked David Craig about this, and here's what he had to say: "Concerning your recent question about the differences between the Mac and Lisa 400k drives as pertaining to auto eject at machine shutdown, my understanding is the Lisa drive has extra circuitry to detect when its power is turned off and it then auto ejects the floppy. The Mac drive does not have this extra circuitry and therefore does not auto eject a floppy by itself. The Mac floppy ejection is controlled by the system software. See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature. FWIW, the Lisa drive being smarter does not suprise me since the Lisa hardware philosophy was to have specific components handle specific tasks. That's why the Lisa twiggy drives were smart and did stuff like formatting whereas the Mac handles everything about the disk. The Lisa's keyboard was also smart and had its own chip to control it -- COPS, control oriented processing system." -- MB

28 years, 1 month

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