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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Whoops, Holy Grails of Classic PERSONAL Computer Collecting :) I only put in "Micro" to leave out the PDP-1's, etc. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 4:14 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > 2. Xerox Alto Not a micro. > 5. Kenbak-1 Not a micro. > 10. IBM 5100 Not a micro. You need three more :-) -- Doug

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Aquarius Data Recorders

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Well, my whole Aquarius only cost $35 with mini-expander and 3 carts, so I guess I'd go maybe $10 on a tape drive. Kai -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 1:50 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Aquarius Data Recorders I just received an email from a local group which has 250 new in box Aquarius cassette recorders. They are taking bids but I suspect you can't just buy a few but would have to take the whole lot. I have one but could use at least one more and maybe two and it would be nice to have the box and any doc or cables. Is there any interest in this out there? If so, how much would people be willing to pay? Don't forget shipping costs. Let me know. BTW, "local" in this case is Houston, TX. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

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VCF Press Clippings

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Any news on the airtimes for the ZDTV and CNET pieces? -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 9:50 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: VCF Press Clippings Allow me to introduce you to my vanity: http://www.vintage.org/vcf/press.htm VCF press clippings for the past year or so. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> In some respect the F8 was like many early parts in that the < > CORE CPU was there but glue was needed to make it all work. < > (8080/8224/8228 for example). < < Yes. Are you arguing that the 8080 is not a microprocessor? Where did you get that idea from. It's a the idea that CPUs don't have to be single chip to constitute a microprocessor/microcomputer. The rest is stirring the pot to hear it clang. Allison

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a collectors grail

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Don't you mean 1801R and 1801S? My early 18xx book doesn't list any 181 Both. Mine do, I have an unusual collection of RCA data books with alot of their loose data sheets as well. I used to call on the RCA microcomputer systems group down Somerville NJ. Allison

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Definitions

by franke＠sbs.de

> So would it be possible to come up with a group sanctioned list of > definitions for: > computer (generic) > digital computer > analog computer > minicomputer > microcomputer > processor > microprocessor > mainframe > Then when we all agreed on what the definition was we could argue 'firsts' > with some sort of logical frame-work. As it is, the discussions read a lot > like: I think the problem is that it's impossible to find a singe and _undisputed_ definition for any of the terms above. Even computer isn't clear at all (just remember Raul Rojas' speak about the Z1), not to mention this when is a microprocessor a microprocessor discusion going thruout the list. > No offense intended, my observation is that many discussions are running > around in circles because the participants haven't agreed on their basic > tenents yet. Same for me, but if we follow the ongoing thread, it will be visible, thats it's less about whats the first of wich ever (unclear) kind, and more about vague concepts and the impact of a certain design. All this firsts and this-but-not-that things operate at borderlines where are no real borders. Maybe there is a 'Uncertainty Principle' of certain 'seem to be exact' terms. Like ordinary physiks, they are usable for every day life, but when (we are) try to define the very finest structur, we have to discover that they are no more usable. Gruss H. BTW: should I call it Frankes Uncertainty Principle of Computer Terms ? (SCNR *g*) (I meet Werner Heisenberg once in 1972 at a speech at our school - quite an notable man.) P.S.: I like Sam's point about regarding unpretended tasks AND is like Doug's idea about (technical/comercial) impact. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but none can either be used as this blade everybody wants to have, since there is no strict this-or-that. I think both are to be considered. A concept without without follow up is not relevant, and if we only look for the (comercial) impact, so anything beside the x86 wouldn't be woth to be remembered ??? The true worth of this list is NOT to get this-or-that thing, it's about aquiering and enhance knowledge on all regarding fields, ideas, concepts, etc. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Definitions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > So would it be possible to come up with a group sanctioned list of < > definitions for: < > computer (generic) < > digital computer < > analog computer < > minicomputer < > microcomputer < > processor < > microprocessor < > mainframe Pick up a dictionary and use it! These words have a definition that works if used concisely. Then we also need to get group santioned english. Part of the problem is these are exacting terms that are often abused linguisticly. After all it's easity to say X is first computer. Only to be corrected because you didn't say analog, digital, mechanical, electrical, relay, vacuum tube, transistor, integrated circuit, RTL, TTL, ECL, MOS, CMOS, ad infinitum. If this seems nitpicky consider this statement; The norden bomb sight, an analog mechanical computer has it roots in what? If that appears to be an exercise for the inane we are preserving, using, trading, collecting and otherwise dealing with history and in archeological terms what, where, when, who, how are other questions are part of the story. Accuracy and minuniscule details are the essence of an industry that in my lifetime went from the early commercial vacuum tube machines to the 64bit CPU chip running some thousands of times faster. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Historical footnotes are always intresting, but it seems to me that to < pronounce "the F15 CADC was first, not the Intel 4004" is a strawman. W It is if you leave it at first and don't get any more specific than that. the F14 CADC was the first microcomputer system that made fly by wire practical. The 4004 was the first commercially viable single chip CPU. Clear statments that do not conflict but do make a statment that points to their significance. < I'm not denying that Holt produced a CPU, and it may be important in th < history of military computers. It is irrelevant in the history of the < personal computer unless there was a personal computer designed that < included it or a direct descendant. Or the technology that made the silicon possible for later commercial designs. It doesn't have to be the same design. < I think it's great that Holt got his story out. Footnotes always add < depth, but no chapters need to be rewritten. The assuption is they are accurate chapters. ;) the depth is needed to see how the later chapters are significant. Allison

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Definitions

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

> >Sorry, but an abacus is most definitely digital. >A SLIDE RULE is analog. I stand corrected. > >

27 years, 8 months

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a collectors grail

by allisonp＠world.std.com

As I get deeper into collecting there are systems and docs I'd love to find. Ten of them in no special order. 1. Cincinatti Millichron 2000, 2100 or 2200 based mini. 2. Docs (or copies) for IMSAI IMP48 3. Intel MCS-8 4. Control Logic modules L series (for 8008 based system use). 5. and 8E/F/M or programmers pannel equipped 8A 6. Signetics 2650 based SBC 7. Intel prompt-48 9. DEC 8008 based SBC. 10. RCA 1801/18101 based system eveluation board. (1801 is not a typo). Allison

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: < > The F8 (NOT the 3870) had bits and piices of the CPU scattered between < > minimum of two chips. < < No, it didn't. The entire F8 CPU was on a single chip. If you added a < chip that contained only ROM and I/O, you had a functional system. Not quite. the F8 cpu (3850) was an incomplete system without the 385x (3851,6,7 PSU). It was very difficult to simulate the PSU in ttl as well. The two ran in lock step just like the parts of the F14 CADC or the LSI-11 with it's MICROMS. The 3870 was the single chip version of the F8. In some respect the F8 was like many early parts in that the CORE CPU was there but glue was needed to make it all work. (8080/8224/8228 for example). I know this from doing comparative design-ins while at NEC during the late 70s. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< We haven't established a precise definition for microprocessor, but wha < you seem to be talking about is a microcontroller, which is a complete < system on a chip (i.e., CPU, memory, and I/O). Ah, your catching on. CPU: central processing unit... says nothing about memory or IO. The CPU is an 8080. Microprocessor: Actually is a systems level concept and is generally refers to the whole box. The Altair8800 Microcomputer. Microcontroller: see above! The IMSAI IMP-48 microcontroller uses the Intel 8035 as its core. The F8 (NOT the 3870) had bits and piices of the CPU scattered between a minimum of two chips. The 1800/1801 did the same as it was too much for one piece of silicon at the time of design. < AFAIK, the first true microcontroller (CPU, memory, and I/O on one monol < IC) was the Intel 8048. BZZT! TI TMS1000 and NEC uCOM4 both predate it. So the F14 CADC is a microcomputer. The LSI-11 is a microcomputer. The Z80 is a CPU as is the 80586. Allison

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Cheap "variac"?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Today at a local flea market, I picked up a PRO (Made in Taiwan) Soldering Iron Controller. It has a three-prong power outlet and a heavy duty potentiometer for controlling the voltage level of the outlet. The labeling indicates "MAX. 800 WATTS-120 V.A.C." My math tells me that this unit can handle a maximum of 6 amps. Would this be safe to use as a variac on, say, a sparsely loaded IMSAI? It was only a buck. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think the number does differ, because a)There is no practical purpose for building a CPU, just curiosity b)Parts like 2901s are not as available c)Kids are rarely going into homebrewing these days d)The dilution is making it hard to get information I'm curious why the HPCC would be interested in homebrew? Or is HPCC a sort of umbrella name for a computer club? At my school, the most calculator-loving person spends his time making a multitasking GUI OS for a TI-92, to look like Win95. I guess interests have changed. >Sometimes I think (hope???) that homebrewing is still very much alive, >it's just diluted by all the PC users out there. I suspect that years >ago, the total number of people who built CPUs from scratch is not that >different from now. > >On the other hand, I have presented a number of homebrew projects at the >HPCC (UK HP calculator user club) meetings and had next to 0 interest. So >perhaps I am one of the few remaining. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Less common ones (Was: Top 10 Holy Grails

by franke＠sbs.de

Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote: > Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: >> I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance >> represented on this list. > OK, some here might have Epson HC-20s. (Epson repainted the grey case > beige and removed the Katakana from the keyboard and ROMs to make the > HX-20 a few years later) Well beside homebrews, I could throw in the Microset 8080 (as seen on the VCF 2.0), a Eurocom I or maybe the Pascal Microengine, to name a US build computer. But reflecting the huge amount of 'forgotten' computers, maufacturers and models (not to mention all these zillions of 'different' Japaneese MSX systems), there might be some in everyones collection thats unique within the list. Gruss H. P.S.: are there still some Superbrains out there ? I need docu and system disks, because the disks are unreadable since the 'friendly' visit 4 weeks ago. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Corrections to trivia

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I second your opinion. Well stated Sam. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/6/98 9:23 AM On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you > can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do > anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there > were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a > Universe, nobody cares. I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body of work. In fact, I think people do care. I'm not so quick to sweep historical facts underneath the carpet simply as a matter of convenience. I'd rather know the complete and true story, and not just the easiest one to remember. Furthermore, you are are discounting the AMI microprocessors of the early 70s, which Holt went on to design after the F14 CADC, and the influence those chips may have had on later designs. In fact, you are choosing to go along with the popular history written years ago by a biased reporter that is perpetuated by lazy historians who simply regurgitate the information they read in the last book rather than doing real research and finding out there was more to the story, and that there is history before the popular history. The picture is bigger than the canvas it was painted on. I want to know what was beyond the frame. I'm surprised you have this attitude when on the one hand you'd like to see the HP9830 recognized as the first personal computer, rather than the Altair 8800. By your own reasoning, the HP9830 wasn't the big bang, so who cares? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct06.092339.1767.67943; Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:23:40 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id GAA20934; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:21:02 -0700 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id GAA34038 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:20:07 -0700 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.54]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id GAA14781 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:20:07 -0700 Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA00943 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981006061934.27220G-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Classic Computer Discussion <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by Marty＠itgonline.com

A BBC series entitled 'Connections,' hosted (I believe) by James Burke was fascinating as it culled a wide range of seemingly disparate and unrelated inventions and discoveries which led to some profound changes in technological progress. It is this 'trivia' that I find interesting especially when an idea laid dormant for years is realized by the advancement of technology. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/6/98 11:31 AM >> Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you >> can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do >> anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there >> were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a >> Universe, nobody cares. > I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body of > work. I always belives it's a kind of anglo american attitude toward non US (and GB) archievments around the world, but I'm glad to see that it's even comon within. SCNR Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct06.113129.1767.67975; Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:31:29 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id IAA26860; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:29:16 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA28166 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:29:12 -0700 Received: from ns.sbs.de (ns.sbs.de [194.112.84.17]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA08793 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:29:11 -0700 Received: from mail.fth.sbs.de (mail.fth.sbs.de [192.129.41.35]) by ns.sbs.de (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA20021 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:34:01 +0200 (MDT) Received: from marina.fth.sbs.de (marina.fth.sbs.de [192.129.41.2]) by mail.fth.sbs.de (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA02855 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:19:11 +0200 (MET DST ) Received: from M23769PP (m23769pp.mch.sbs.de [139.25.241.35]) by marina.fth.sbs.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA05980 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:26:16 +0200 (MET DST ) Message-Id: <199810061526.RAA05980(a)marina.fth.sbs.de> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:45:49 +1 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Hans Franke" <franke(a)sbs.de> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia X-Envelope-Sender-Is: franke(a)sbs.de (at relayer mail.fth.sbs.de) X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 8 months

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a collectors grail

by franke＠sbs.de

> 6. Signetics 2650 based SBC That's one I would also like to get my hands on, since my first computer (homebrew) was using one (supid me, I just throw it away 20 years ago in favour for a KIM). It's rare to finde s.o. today, remembering tis odd but neat pice of silicon. Allison, do you still have docs and/or computers/boards ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by franke＠sbs.de

> Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails > of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the > Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but > somewhat randomly ordered: > 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular > Electronics but was lost in shipment > 2. Xerox Alto > 3. Mark 8 > 4. Scelbi 8H > 5. Kenbak-1 > 6. Micral 8008 > 7. Apple I > 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit > 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator > 10. IBM 5100 Hmm Breaking down to just 10 is hard, but when it comes to the 'most desirable' ones, I would personaly add at #1 the wooden PET prototype. And eventualy the ATARI-ST prototype boards. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you >> can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do >> anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there >> were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a >> Universe, nobody cares. > I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body of > work. I always belives it's a kind of anglo american attitude toward non US (and GB) archievments around the world, but I'm glad to see that it's even comon within. SCNR Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Expander

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Scott Ware wrote: > How about the Expander? It's an S-100 box designed by Lee Felsenstein > that's sort of a cross between a SOL-20 and a TRS-80 model 1, only > Swedish. The only information I've been able to find on this machine is > in Kip Crosby's CHAC interview with Lee Felsenstein in Analytical Engine > 3.2. According to the information in the interview, 200 Expanders were > made, but the order was never paid for, so only "a few" made it into the > public. Lee touched on this at VCF 1.0. He described the project a little bit: how it came about and what happened to it. The VCF 1.0 talks will be available for purchase on tape before the end of the year (I PROMISE!) > http://xtal.pharm.nwu.edu/~ware/collection/machines/expander.html Looks very cool. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but < > can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't < > anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe the < > were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a < > Universe, nobody cares. Prior to Holts chip, the F14 CADC there wer lesser chips. All of them were on a line started in the late 50s with a simple IC of no real usefulness. The little bangs were the devlopment of processes that alloed more transistors to a die, developing MOSFET technology that were more compact and better suited to planar circuits on the die. Things like well isolation all contributed and happend on lesser circuits than a CPU. We are talking about commonly used chips like gates, adders, shift registers, rams and ROMS. Lets face it, the 8008 would have been a burp instead of a bang if the ROM and RAM chips weren't there too! < I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body o < work. In fact, I think people do care. I'm not so quick to sweep My whole point. < historical facts underneath the carpet simply as a matter of convenience < I'd rather know the complete and true story, and not just the easiest on < to remember. < < Furthermore, you are are discounting the AMI microprocessors of the < early 70s, which Holt went on to design after the F14 CADC, and the < influence those chips may have had on later designs.

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by pechter＠shell.monmouth.com

Tron was done with a Foonly PDP10 clone. I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and 11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix). Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by bill＠chipware.com

So to complete this train of thought, Intel was the inflationary period and Microsoft would be the infinite expansion and eventual heat death of the universe? (Sorry, couldn't resist) -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:51 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: >I still think the SLF is > a "microprocessor", and quite likely the first even though you think > that's not important (there's gotta be a Big Bang somewhere). The Big Bang was named Babbage. Intel supplied the ammunition for a revolution: cheap computers. The high level of integration was what enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level of integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main feature of the important event. Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a Universe, nobody cares. -- Doug

27 years, 8 months

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Somebody has a C65 on eBay

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 06:15 PM 10/5/98 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >>On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> >>> :: >>> ::Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left and the >>> ::bidding is at $1025. >>> :: >>> >>> That's nothing. The last one sold went for $1400. (!) >> >>Well, how many of these "prototypes" exist? Has anyone authenticated >>these things? > >There was more like an entire production run of them. IIRC there are/were >several hundred of them. Or maybe he's selling a prototype of the ones >that were actaully made. The Commodore A3000+ prototypes sound more >interesting, there are only 3 of them I believe. Still the C65 would have >been interesting. > Yeah, the last estimate I saw put the number at just under 1,000 made in all. You used to be able to buy them from a company that sold C= parts for something like $169. (Or you could fish them out of the dumpsters out on Wilson drive if you got there on the right day.) Word is that they were 65816 based (or somesuch) and looked *sorta* like an Amiga 500 with a 3 1/2 floppy built in. I don't think they were compatible with the 64. Anyways, the CBM FAQ has more info, haven't read it lately. Les

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

The Big Bang was named Babbage. Intel supplied the ammunition for a < revolution: cheap computers. The high level of integration was what No Intel never made a cheap computer. They made CPUs, Memory and support chips. The MCS. MDS, intellect even the SDKs were anything but cheap. < enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level o < integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main featur < of the important event. It's everything as the 8008 hit the level of integration needed to produce a viable general purpose commercial cpu. For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a MCS-8 from intel?!?! This is not unlike the PDP-8. the PDP-8 really wasn't the first small computer. It was the first to be manufactured in large quantities at low cost and that it was a member of a family that spanned many years (PDP-5, 8, 8I, 8E, 8A DECmate). Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Somebody has a C65 on eBay

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left and the bidding is at $1025. Kai

27 years, 8 months

7
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RSX-11M and CSR's

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Is there a way to get RSX-11M V4.2 to provide a list of CSR's in use on the system? IIRC RT-11 will provide them, but I've not figured out how to get RSX to. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 12:10 AM 06-10-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: >> Well I'd add a Ferranti Atlas for all the obvious reasons. > >I probably should have added some foriegn iron, but I must admit, I am >unfamiliar with it. Certainly some of the big Japanese and British stuff >would count. The Atlas is famous for two important things - virtual memory and timesharing. The Atlas was the first commercial machine to have hardware support for paging and hence virtual memory. A neat timesharing system resulted. I also seem to recall a nice Algol compiler for it too. I'll see if I can remember to check my copy of "Algol-60 Compilation and Assessment" which will have the gory details :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>> I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance >> represented on this list. How about an ExelVision EXL100 I don't think they ever made it to this side of the atlantic. Of course you UK people have a chance to have one but I believe it never made it out of France (except for mine:) As far as the holly grail list: yep one of each would be great. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 8 months

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Homebrewing a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I've been sketching ideas based on a rocker that is threaded on a rod. T Smooth rod with a return spring and seperators between teh switches. < back of the rocker contains a 'paddle' which when the rocker is down, < breaks an IR/detector gap. This has a couple of benefits. One the rocker No question it's more reliable... what about dust. How about hall effect switches? < switch register - what size? Could have 8 to 32 bits if we wanted Number of bits is based on CPU native word size. < I've about half decided to build something PDP-8 like out of PIC chips. < They are relatively cheap, easy to program, and quite fast. I hadn't < thought about using them as base units (microcode sequencer, ALU control < etc) until this discussion began, but it also raised the point of Doable but not many are needed as the 8 series had a single accumularot and the amount of random logic that is not control related is small. < 'emulators' and I began to wonder what if you build a Z80 system that < emulated a PDP-8 with one of these custom front panels. That turns out t < be more of a software effort than a hardware effort. It was done on an 8080 in the mid 70s using a terminal as a text graphics display. < You can get PC boards made fairly cheaply, if you wanted to do a transis < based CPU I would definitely consider having a few hundred 'flip chip' < equivalents made. It wouldn't have to be 1:1 DEC replacements but they < showed it could be done. Wiring up 12 flip flops by hand on a piece of p < board (4 transistors each!) would be extremely painful. Yes it would also the shear number even at a penny(US) each would scare most people as something like an straight-8 used a few thousand. Resistors aren't cheap nor caps so that scales up real fast. Transistors if used would be a good thing for doing a serial machine as they have lower parts counts and few hardware "registers". Not modern silicone transistors do not have close to similar characteristics to the old grown junction or MADT germainium devices so circuit chages would be required. < First, find a 50Amp 5 volt supply. :-) The thing about TTL logic that < always amazes me is how much power it draws. I built a digital PLL out o < TTL chips once (about 40 chips) it was easily drawing 3-4 amps at speed < 74HC logic might be a good compromise here. I've done some heafty TTL designs (one was 200 chips SSI and some MSI) and it didn't need near 20 amps never mind 50. I don't thing the 8E PS can do more than 35A. Besides a simple design is possible without meltdown for heat. < computers called the 'beer budget graphics display' and was featured in < BYTE magazine in the late 70's. Basically this was two R2R D/A ladders < driving the X/Y inputs to an oscilloscope. If you make a 12 bit machine < could build a 4K x 4K resolution display fairly easily. (You will be cor I built it using a 8bit R2R ladder and that is the limit of that design for a lot of reasons. It settles slow (more than 10uS settling time) and the high order drivers to the R2R ladder have to supply some power. A later published design used 8bit moto1408, also slow. Or scale back to 1024x1024. This is known as vector graphics and the real limitation is how many vectors can you draw before you have to go back and redraw (flicker/refresh) which is a fuction of DAC speed, CPU speed and crt driver speed. It was the display common to the PDP-1, and seen on 8s and even some 11s for early graphics. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I'm not sure how useful a definition it is. Why, for instance, isn't m < PDP-8/I considered to be microprocessor-based? It has a multi-chip < processor. So did the IBM 360/30, for that matter. The 8I was a TTL cpu and was a lot of DEC cards interconnected to make a minicomputer. There is no one board, or 15, in an 8I that could be called the CPU or even the core processor. The 8E did reduce that to three cards timing, major registers, major registers control. The dividing line is level of integration. The F14 CADC basically put those three 8E card into one ot two chips. < While I would be the last person to want to downplay the significance o < the F-14 computer, I personally think that the word 'microprocessor' is < only useful if it refers to a single monolithic IC, in which case Ted Ho < and Intel get credit for the first one. Microprocessor is a functional name ie: what it do, not what it are. So in most senses microcomputer and microprocessor are one and the same but not always interchangeable. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Yes, but DEC had a strange definition of 'microprocessor'. They sometime < used the term to mean 'microcoded processor' - as in the microprocessor < board for the DMC11, etc which certainly wasn't a single-chip processor < (it was a hex-height card of TTL). Microprocessor... the RX01 disk controller (drive end) is a board of ttl and proms. It is a micro, meaning small, processor, it performs a set procedure of actions "process" upon data or system (disks and the data for them). The RX01 contains a microprogrammed microcontroller as its microprocessor. I'd think that was clear enough. ;) Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Lisa HELP!

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Help! This is a weird one. I have a Sun Remarketing Macintosh XL (a.k.a. Lisa 2 modified). It has Sun's Parallel-to-SCSI card which runs a ribbon cable out the back of the machine and plugs into the external parallel port. OK, I've heard of such configurations, so far, so good. Problem is, neither the Kalok SCSI hard drive nor the 800K floppy drive spin up when I power on the machine. I pulled out the drive enclosure, and there is no power connected. The Sun Parallel-to-SCSI has a 6-pin right-angle power connector on it. There is a loose power connector in the drive area, but it has only 3 pins on a totally different spacing. What is going on here? thanks!! Kai

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Sam wrote: < > Anyway, the F14 CADC SLF chip can be classified as a single-chip < > microprocessor. I say "can" because you've get a different definition < > microprocessor depending on whom you ask. < < OK, let us know the definition, so that we can decide whether the LSI-1 < chip set also qualifies as a microprocessor. Then we can settle the tri < question regarding which microprocessor-based Unix system came first. Dec sold the LSI-11 and later chip based systems as microcomputers. Source for this is the bindings of not less than 7 databooks and technical descriptions. Also the T-11 member of the family is a single 40pin dip with one die inside. If that werent' the case the fairchild F8 would not qualify as a single chip CPU due to the need for multiple chips and the same would apply to the predecessor to the RCA CDP1802. allison

27 years, 8 months

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Cheap "variac"?

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Sam, if you need an example you can go to Halted in Sunnyvale and look on their row next to the test bench. They have a 20Amp 120v Variac on the shelf. It's about 8" around with a funky steering wheel like knob on the end. (they want $350 for it so its probably still there ;-) --Chuck

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sethm＠loomcom.com

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27 years, 8 months

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Working PDP-10 anyone?

by bill＠chipware.com

Already looking for next years VCF door prize? -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 3:33 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Working PDP-10 anyone? Does anyone know off-hand where there might be a complete, working PDP-10 system? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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FW: pdp11/44 free to good home in TX

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 04:34 PM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm telling you, its the Y2K scare. You'll start to see more and more of >this hardware become available as people start to panic. I'm frightened to realize that you're serious. Great, let's start scaring them even more, to increase our collections. :-) - John

27 years, 8 months

3
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They still use Commodores in Nova Scotia

by rax＠warbaby.com

Surfing the back alleys of the Internet today, I found an ISP in Nova Scotia that has downloads of Internet access and utilities software for Commodores, Apple II's, and Atari's. Cool. Chebucto Net http://ccn.cs.dal.ca The download page is at http://ccn.cs.dal.ca/Services/PDA/PDA.html -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>> What you find "bizarre" is almost certainly what I like about them. 12-, >> 13-, and 14-bit wide instruction words, Harvard architecture so that >You've been using them for quite a while if you remember the 13-bit ones. :-) >IIRC, that was the PIC1670 (not PIC16C70!); perhaps there were some other >13-bitters. That was before I started with PICs, though I have the old data >books around here somewhere. I was using them when they weren't even called PIC's, and were sold by General Instruments... -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

3
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Homebrewing a classic

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Some thoughts on this homebrew stuff... Front Panels: ------------- I've been mulling over the idea of building a "generic" front panel. Clearly there is a lot of resonance with the blinking lights of the PDP-series, the Altairs and IMSAIs etc. However if I did this it would have to be both durable and cheap. Having rebuilt a couple of PDP-8 KC8's I think the rocker over the slide switch can be cheap but it isn't durable. I've been sketching ideas based on a rocker that is threaded on a rod. The back of the rocker contains a 'paddle' which when the rocker is down, breaks an IR/detector gap. This has a couple of benefits. One the rockers are on a rod so they don't have small pins to break off, and two the switch mechanism is optical and thus not subject to oxidation decay that mechanical systems suffer. Of course I would like the front panel to be usable for a variety of hardware designs and that leaves open the question of 'generic' switches. Clearly there are the following switch requirements: Run/Stop Single Step - momentary Deposit - momentary Examine - momentary Load Address - momentary switch register - what size? Could have 8 to 32 bits if we wanted Key switch - Off/On/Panel Lock Some panels adopted a dual action switch for 'examine'/'examine next' and 'deposit'/'deposit next'. Clearly that's harder to do with my simple optical switch. Compound Computers ------------------ I've about half decided to build something PDP-8 like out of PIC chips. They are relatively cheap, easy to program, and quite fast. I hadn't thought about using them as base units (microcode sequencer, ALU control, etc) until this discussion began, but it also raised the point of 'emulators' and I began to wonder what if you build a Z80 system that emulated a PDP-8 with one of these custom front panels. That turns out to be more of a software effort than a hardware effort. Transistor based CPUs ---------------------- You can get PC boards made fairly cheaply, if you wanted to do a transistor based CPU I would definitely consider having a few hundred 'flip chip' equivalents made. It wouldn't have to be 1:1 DEC replacements but they showed it could be done. Wiring up 12 flip flops by hand on a piece of perf board (4 transistors each!) would be extremely painful. TTL Logic based CPUs -------------------- First, find a 50Amp 5 volt supply. :-) The thing about TTL logic that always amazes me is how much power it draws. I built a digital PLL out of TTL chips once (about 40 chips) it was easily drawing 3-4 amps at speed. 74HC logic might be a good compromise here. The use of CRTs --------------- There is a really clever homebrew display that was influenced by early computers called the 'beer budget graphics display' and was featured in BYTE magazine in the late 70's. Basically this was two R2R D/A ladders driving the X/Y inputs to an oscilloscope. If you make a 12 bit machine you could build a 4K x 4K resolution display fairly easily. (You will be core limited in terms of points to plot but what the heck right?) This type of output was featured in several different early computers. Anyway, just some thoughts... --Chuck

27 years, 8 months

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Working PDP-10 anyone?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Does anyone know off-hand where there might be a complete, working PDP-10 system? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

4
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Somebody has a C65 on eBay

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

SUch crazy people. I think I will re-organize the Governor William J. Le Petomane Gambling Casino for the Insane (formerly the La Petomane Asylum for the Insane) and re-open this establishment as the Governor William J. LaPetomaine Computer Store for the Insane! A new era of lunacy is just on the horizon for the insane computer collector . . . . {Tongue removed from Cheek} On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> writes: >:: >::Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left >and the >::bidding is at $1025. >:: > >That's nothing. The last one sold went for $1400. (!) > >-- >-------------------------- personal page: >http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- >Cameron Kaiser Information Technology Services Database >Programmer >Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 >849 2581 >ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 >849 2539 >-- Jesus at a disco: "Help! I've risen and I can't get down!" >----------------- > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

1
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Internet software for an XT computer

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 09:24 AM 10/5/98 -0500, Kirk Scott wrote: > > >On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Phil Clayton wrote: > >> I'm sure I have read before that some users on the forum use internet >> software for accessing the internet that will run on old XT running DOS >> (Text only)..? >> Would someone tell me where I could get a copy of this software.. >> Thanks.. >> Phil... > >Phil: > >The program you want is "Nettamer" and you can get it from garbo.uwasa.fi >in the /pc/connect/ directory; filename: n1101xt.zip > >It's great, it was the first program I used to surf the 'Net on my XT! > >Kirk Scott You might also want to check into something called Arachne. Although it lists a 386 as a "minimum," the docs say it should run on any x86 with an EGA or VGA card. BTW, Arachne is basically a graphical web browser with (i think) ppp or slip buillt in. (Runs under DOS too) Les

27 years, 8 months

2
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Universal drive

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

OK, next question. While I look for weird expansion cards, is there any book that I stand a chance at finding which details the DOS flopy format? >> Hmmm... I don't know of one built commercially, but how about a board >> based round an FPGA (for the non-hardware types, basically a configurable >> chip that you can make just about any logic circuit out of) linked to an >> floppy drive. Oh, and some kind of programmable clock (I don't think >> dividing down a master clock with the FPGA would really do it)/PLL thingy >> to act as a read clock. > >Overly complicated, no (hardware) PLL necessary. Just sample the data from >the drive at a sufficient multiple of the channel code data rate (8x should be >plenty), and do the data separation in software. That way it really is >completely independent of the data format. That's the way I designed my >closed-caption decoder (5x), and it works quite well. > >Note that this doesn't deal with all of the weird Apple ][ copy protection >schemes (like spiral tracks), but it will deal with some of them. > >I have a twiggy disks for the Lisa 1 with a bad sector. I've always wondered >whether hacking the drive electronics to allow software control over the >read amplifier gain and/or data slice threshold would let me recover that >sector. > >Cheers, >Eric > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

6
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CRASH!!!

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

My mailer crashed and I lost some addresses. A few days ago I asked if anyone needed a 486DX/2 66 chip...uh...if you responded then, please email me again. There were three responses, and I remember that the third one was Uncle Rodger. Sorry for the inconvenience, guys. Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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Qbus card info needed...

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Hi all, I got a Plessey PDP-11 clone from John Lawson today and was just poking around at the cards. I thought I'd check to see if anyone had any info on some of the non-DEC stuff in there: 1. Peritek, video board, "VIURAM VRG-Q11" - there is a cable plugged into the 10-pin connector on this one, which ends in a single BNC plug. What kind of video does this output? Any ideas on what kind of display I could use? 2. Plessey, memory, p/n M8044DK and p/n M 8044 DB 3. Plessey, multifunction p/n PM-MFV11A 4. Standard Memories, ???, MM-148 - this board has 4 rows of MCM6665 64k rams and a toggle switch on the handle edge. There are two led's, one labeled "PWR OFF" and one labeled "ON RUN." There is also an 8-position DIP switch toward the connector side. Thanks in advance, Aaron

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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PDP-9

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Better get a small truck... http://pc.dec-j.co.jp/support/may/dec_jpg/part_1/image/pdp9.jpg At 04:56 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >I just talked to somebody that has a PDP-9 that has been in continuous use >(24 hours/day) since 1967! They're finally thinking about phasing it out. >So, I was thinking.... How big is a PDP-9? > >-- Doug >

27 years, 8 months

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Textronix 4025 terminal seen

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Spotted a (what I regard as) classic terminal the other day. It was at A-Tex electronics in San Antonio (if your phone book isn't that new, call the Altex electronics and ask for their recently spun-off parts division near the airpont). It was not in good shape - several keycaps broken off, scratched, very dirty, no manual. It was $25 as is, and I had no chance to power up and see how it is. Also the missing manual hurts, because a lot of the very cool and well-thought-out graphics instructions are called by escape sequences that I don't remember at all. If I remember right, the 4025 was Tek's start at transitioning off the long-lasting phosphor technology into a regular bit-mapped display. Istr that it had maybe 2 Z-80's and about 64k of RAM, which was not bad at the time (late 70's to 1980 or so?) for a whole system, to say nothing of a terminal. It had a pair of thumbwheels for cursor control. It felt and looked industrial strength and was a pleasure to use. Anybody remember more useful info about it? - Mark

27 years, 8 months

1
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Info needed on Godbout Econorom 2708

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

I slight curiosity I've hit upon, and was wondering if anyone might have the docs on this board at hand to help sort it out. I've got a couple of Godbout 'Econorom' 2708 boards, which from the legend and markings on the board seem to imply that it is intended to be used with 2708 Eproms. The oddity becomes, I've got one that is full of 2732 Eproms (it came that way). And of course, if I've got the docs on it they are buried in the warehouse somewhere... (sigh) So, I'm wondering if this board is actually configurable for different Eproms, and if so, does anyone have the specs at hand? (ideally, I'd like to know how to configure it for 2716 Eproms) Thanks! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

2
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Info needed on Godbout Econorom 2708

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I'm pretty sure I have those docs, let me check tonight. I know for sure I have the docs for the CompuPro labeled one, which may or may not be a later version. I've been entering all my docs in a database the past few days, and I'm about 2/3 done. Already at 350+! I'm finding all sorts of interesting tidbits stuck into the binders, such as the original brochure for the IMSAI, copies of Ohio Scientific's magazine/newsletter, etc. Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 9:23 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Info needed on Godbout Econorom 2708 I slight curiosity I've hit upon, and was wondering if anyone might have the docs on this board at hand to help sort it out. I've got a couple of Godbout 'Econorom' 2708 boards, which from the legend and markings on the board seem to imply that it is intended to be used with 2708 Eproms. The oddity becomes, I've got one that is full of 2732 Eproms (it came that way). And of course, if I've got the docs on it they are buried in the warehouse somewhere... (sigh) So, I'm wondering if this board is actually configurable for different Eproms, and if so, does anyone have the specs at hand? (ideally, I'd like to know how to configure it for 2716 Eproms) Thanks! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

1
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Info needed on Godbout Econorom 2708

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I've got a couple of Godbout 'Econorom' 2708 boards, which from the lege < and markings on the board seem to imply that it is intended to be used < with 2708 Eproms. If it says Econorom and 2708 that is true. < So, I'm wondering if this board is actually configurable for different < Eproms, and if so, does anyone have the specs at hand? (ideally, I'd li < to know how to configure it for 2716 Eproms) It was not. That board was likely hacked for 2732 as the basic board was 2708 only. Fyi: the hack would be significant as 2708 was a three volage part! Or it could simple be filled with 2732s for no good reason. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
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PDP-9

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >> By my faulty memory, the actual computer is about 2.5'W x 1'H x 2.5L < >> Warning, they are HEAVY! The PDP-8I was about that size and that was a year or two later than the -9. The -9 has to be bigger. < You sure about that?? We had a PDP-9 running some Radio station Automat < equipment and the actual PDP unit was that one 'silver' box in the pictu < Our other racks were the tape players and interface boards. Everyone thought the 8I was 13" high(size of front pannel) but the box/backplane was nearly three times that. Anyhow the size of front pannels are often deceptive. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
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Back / VCF / SUN

by franke＠sbs.de

Servus, back home, and back to the list. Thanks to all for VCF 2.0. It was just fun. And Sam, maybe you should offer another T-shirt next year for the 'day after': I survived VCF 3.0 (but my wallet didn't survive the flea market) :)) And the worst of all - my wish list is expanding: I've seen some real neat things out there (Teachers PET, SWTP 6800, Black Apple ][, Timex Coco's ...), and of coure now I need any material from / for 'The Digital Group' computers (Hi Chuck). And, And, And ... -------------------- And now something of topic: I need some help for_actual_ SUN HW. We have (want) to order a Desktop unit, but I have no idea, so I need independent info (not form a sales man trying to sell his leftovers). If anyone is into the matter, pls. send me an e-mail for further info. I would apreciate any help. Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

1
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Removal

by info＠annalee.com

Please send me info about how to remove addresses from your list serve. I need to remove to addresses OTHER that the one that this mail is being sent from.

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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KL-10 Emulation Underway

by hhacker＠gte.net

Daniel: I would be willing to help! William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 12:01 PM Subject: KL-10 Emulation Underway >This message was supposed to have gotten here a while ago, but it never did. >Myself and a few other individuals are actively working on a KL-10 emulation. >The project is named e10, and is 3.99% finished. I'm busy confusing myself >with 36-bit math right now. Anyway, help would be nice to complete this >fscker. It's being written in C for Unix platforms, it's under the GPL. >Please don't email me and tell me how stupid this is, or how I'm never >going to finish, I'm trying my damndest to maintain the Never-Give-Up >attitude. I plan to be winning by Y2K. Anyway, does anyone want to help out? > >I generated a web page (Using vi, of course...) at bony.umtec.com, and >the current source can be had from there via FTP in /pub/ka10/*. >Any help at all would be appreciated. >-------

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Yup, I bought 10 decks. I'm taking them to a conference too see if I can generate some clever lads into a new card game or two... --Chuck (Who only ever found Bridge to be an interesting card game) At 09:15 PM 10/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > >> If it was on the same table as the Digital Group Z80, then that was Hal >> Layer's table (although it was Chuck McManis' Z80). > >I still don't know what computer we are talking about. > >Did anyone actual check out Hal's Z-Byte cards? I think they are >incredibly clever. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] >

27 years, 8 months

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Decomposing Books (was: Re: Books for DEC-heads)

by jfoust＠threedee.com

The discussions of Xeroxing and de-acidifying are interesting, but I'd like to hear any experiences of preserving documents by electronic means - scanning, OCRing, and tools for doing that, problems encountered, workable means of viewing and reprinting, etc. The guys at <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~itda/frames.html> have made an admirable effort. They've converted a number of documents to Adobe PDF format. They're waiting on permission from DEC to post some old docs - wasn't there a mention on this list recently >from someone who received permission to redistribute old docs? - John

27 years, 8 months

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The 'Geek' deifned?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Appearing quite stylish at work this week in my 'Geek' t-shirt from the VCF, someone approached with a somewhat unexpected question: "So, what does 'Geek' mean anyway?" Ummmm.... (nervous pause)... G enuinely E nthuastic E lectronics K eeper (best I could come up with on short notice) Any other 'takes' on a definition for this? (word rather than concept) -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Didn't Motorola make a 1-bit cmos microcomputer? Cannot remember it's pa < number. I remember Turning machine articles in various places. One is "T Yes the 14500 industrial control unit. It did not do serial arithmetic but did do logical operation based on two single bit operands. It was intended to be a controller to replace simple relay trees. That however, is far different from systems that were bit serial as that was done to reduce the number of redundant logic elements needed (at the expense of speed) and often these serial machines had very long instruction and data words with 31bits not unheard of. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Tim and all, At 04:51 PM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >Why not go for a bit-serial (aka 1-bit) CPU? It's an extremely classic >design, and is certainly the way to go to minimize total transistor >count. Didn't Motorola make a 1-bit cmos microcomputer? Cannot remember it's part number. I remember Turning machine articles in various places. One is "The Armchair Universe" by A.K. Dewdney. It is a collection of "Computer Recreations from the pages of Scientific American Magazine". > >>I've got some plans of designing a computer this year. I'll probably >>get my feet wet with a simple 4-bit design, but I'd like to do a 12-bit >>computer (since my "inspiration" is a PDP-8). > >The PDP-8/S is a -8 done in a bit-serial implementation. 78 microseconds >for some instructions! > >If you don't mind making about a 15-year advance in the electronics >you'll be using, you might also seriously consider making a CPU via the >state machine route, using an EPROM and some counters. All math and logic >operations can very easily be done via table look-up in the EPROM. This >is a rather common assignment in lower-level computer engineering courses, >as it's something that can be easily wire-wrapped in an afternoon or two, >and it is extremely easy to try new microcode revisions. Do you recommend any texts that did a neat state machine computer with a EPROM? This sounds like fun, but would like to see some examples of what people actually did first to help start a design. -Dave > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 > 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 > >

27 years, 8 months

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VCF Nerd Trivia Challenge Questions & Answers

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Here are the questions & answers that were used in Nerd Trivia Challenge at the VCF this year. The three contestants did a very good job of answering 90%+ of the questions correctly. The final question had the answer displayed along with it by accident, so we had to choose the second one, which none of the contestants got. Also, one of the questions here has an incorrect answer which one of the contestants (Kip Crosby of the Computer History Association of California) corrected on the spot. I forgot which one that was. Sorry. Otherwise, every question and answer was researched thoroughly, and the Nerd Trivia Challenge committee did a great job of coming up with a good mix of questions. The intent was to come up with challenging questions that would also serve to educate the audience on computer history. Think you have what it takes to win at next year's VCF? Start boning up on your computer history and come on out and give it a try! Note: NERD in Round 1 and SUPER NERD in Round 2 designate a wagering question (i.e. like Jeopardy and Double Jeopardy). Round 1 COMPUTING PIONEERS These two guys started their company in a Silicon Valley garage too, but way before Jobs & Wozniak. William Hewlett and David Packard started Hewlett-Packard in 1938 at 367 Addison Avenue in Palo Alto, California -- Before their operating system became the de facto standard for the PC, these two early pioneers of micro- computer software founded Traf-O-Data. Paul Allen and Bill Gates -- He wrote the technical manual for the Intel 4004 processor. His publishing company was later merged with McGraw Hill. Adam Osborne -- NERD Two of the three engineers who are credited with the invention of the transistor. Dr. John Bardeen, Dr. Walter Brattain, and Dr. William Shockley -- Which German is now recognized as having invented the first stored program computer in 1937. Konrad Zuse ----- PORTABLE COMPUTING Although not the first to market a portable IBM PC compatible computer, this company is best known for it. Compaq -- This portable computer, while not the first notebook, was very popular among members of the press. Tandy Model 100 -- The only portable computer ever sold by Commodore International. The Commodore SX-64 -- This relatively unknown portable computer, which integrated the display, keyboard and storage unit into one luggable case, beat the widely regarded "first" portable by almost 5 years. THINK! IBM 5100, released 1975, included a CRT, tape drive, and featured BASIC and APL interpreters -- This computer is regarded as the first notebook computer. Epson HX-20, released November 1981 ----- ACRONYMS The "TRS" in TRS-80 stands for this. Tandy-Radio Shack -- Xerox PARC is not a place where you go to have picnics, but actually stands for this. Palo Alto Research Center -- The Sun company name is derived from this college acronym. Stanford University Network -- What does the PDP in PDP-8 and PDP-11 stand for? Programmed Data Processor -- What the "KIM" of the MOS Technologies KIM-1 single board computer stands for. "Keyboard Input Monitor" ----- LANGUAGES COMPUTERS SPEAK This language is named after a great 16th century philosopher and mathematician. Pascal -- Dr. Grace Murray Hopper was involved in the development of this still widely utilized business programming language. COBOL -- The cursor in this graphically oriented language was replaced by a "turtle". LOGO -- This language is stack based. Its name does not designate what order it came in. FORTH -- APL stands simply for this. A Programming Language ----- COMPUTERS IN THE MOVIES What computer system did the character David Lightman use in the movie War Games? IMSAI 8080 -- What palm-top computer did John Conner in Terminator 2 use to hack the bank's ATM and then later the Skynet door locks? Atari Portfolio -- What computer did Flynn use to hack into Encom in the movie Tron? An Apple /// -- The computer that was used to render the graphics in The Last Star Fighter. Cray 1 -- The computer that was used to render the graphics in Tron. PDP-10 ----- Round 2 KILLER APPS Dan Bricklin and Bob Frankson invented this killer app. VisiCalc, released December 1979 -- It usurped VisiCalc's grip on the spreadsheet market by riding on the success of the IBM PC. Lotus 123 -- This was the first in Infocom's long line of text-based adventure games. Zork -- This popular program by Broderbund allowed you to print your own greeting cards, posters and banners. Print Shop -- SUPER NERD Broderbund means this in Norwegian. "Brother bond" (the company was founded by two brothers, Doug and Gary Carlston). ----- OLD IRON The computer game "Space War" was first programmed on this old iron. DEC PDP-1 -- When it was introduced in 1976, this legendary supercomputer was the fastest computer the world had ever seen. Cray 1 -- The first English computer to implement the stored program concept. The EDSAC, completed in 1949 [Note from Sam: This was the one. The correct answer was, um, er, uh, "BABY" in Manchester...right? :) ] -- After their involvement on the ENIAC project, J. Presper Eckert and John Mauchly went on to build this early dinosaur of computing. UNIVAC, 1951 -- This system developed by IBM and derived from the SAGE project was used by the airline industry to handle reservations. SABRE (Semi-Automatic Business-Related Environment), developed for American Airlines ----- HISTORICAL UNIX Korn, Bourne and C are all versions of this. Unix command shells -- Bill Joy authored this (in)famous Unix text editor. vi -- These two programmers developed Unix on a PDP-7. Dan Thompson and David Ritchie -- What does the "BSD" in the BSD flavor of Unix stand for? Berkeley Software Distribution -- This was the first computer not manufactured by DEC that Unix was ported to. Interdata 8/32 ----- OPERATING SYSTEMS This was the first computer to feature a graphical user interface. The Xerox Alto, created in 1973 at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center, or PARC. -- Before being acquired and modified by Microsoft for the then nascent IBM PC in 1980, MS-DOS was formerly known as this. QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) by Seatle Computer Products. Also 86-DOS and SCP DOS -- Multiplexing Information and Computing Service is better known as this early operating system. Multics -- The policy of this operating system was "No advertising, no support, no bug fixes, payment in advance". Unix -- The first microprocessor-based computer to run Unix. The Z8000-based Onyx C8002 in 1980 ----- NERDPOURRI This first mass-marketed kit computer was named after the planet the crew of the starship Enterprise were visiting in that week's episode of Star Trek. Altair 8800 -- Apple's GUI-based predecessor to the Mac. While advanced for its time, it was extremely expensive, costing upwards of $10,000. Apple Lisa, released in 1982 -- Of the Apple ][, the Commdore PET and the TRS-80 Model 1, the computer which was not exhibited at the first West Coast Computer Faire. TRS-80 Model 1, introduced in August of 1977 -- This computer measured 12" wide by 12" high by 12" deep and was all black, except for the multi-colored logo. NeXT -- SUPER NERD The year and month the IBM PC was first introduced. August 1981 ----- FINAL QUESTION (voided due to technical foul-up :) COMPUTER INNOVATIONS Originally invented by IBM as a way to transfer microcode updates, this medium can be either hard-sectored or soft-sectored. Floppy disk - FINAL QUESTION (actual) SERIAL NUMBERS It was the serial number of the first Apple ][ off the assembly line. 2001 Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< But neither the 11/10 nor the /34 nor the /44 were, by any stretch < of the imagination, "microcomputers". Definitely minis. Since you put it that way true, but I see that as marginally significant as they are still PDP-11. Sorta like running OS8 on a 6100... Smaller CMOS and still a PDP-8 for all intents. What would be the first NON-PDP-11 micro to run unix? that would be significant as it's a truly distinct port. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Actually, there is some value in experimenting with strange CPU < architectures, parallel machines, reconfigurable hardware, etc. Not < everything has been done before. Sometimes things that have been done before can be done more cleverly or economically making it worth doing again. < > No, I'm not. How many people are there in Boston who do this stuff? < > 5? That's not much information. And a web site inspires no one. More likely 100 times that. First off you have all those nutty MIT students. The those like me and I've met a few people that are in the running the last few months. Web site that provice inforation, tools, tricks abound and are not to inspire but to assist. Inspiration is is an internal event. < dispute this. It's a lot easier to get information now than it was 10 < years ago. I've had to try to convince a semiconductor company that they < should send me a data sheet on a microprocessor. Now I just grab it off Information was always available, just had to get off ones bottom and go look. I was in the local library and picked up three books on VAX archetecture and left another few behind regarding VMS. Books on electronics and circuits easily filled 20 linear feet of shelves. All free. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by mbg＠world.std.com

>>In fact, when I was a student at WPI in the mid-70's, we had a version >>of Unix running on an 11/10 in the CS department (off RK05s)... > >But neither the 11/10 nor the /34 nor the /44 were, by any stretch >of the imagination, "microcomputers". Definitely minis. Sorry, I was actually responding to the 11/34 vs. 11/44, since they were later computers than the 11/05,10... I wasn't responding to the question of the first microcomputer. I should have made that clear... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ D

27 years, 8 months

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new DEC additions

by hhacker＠gte.net

David: I am short on time now, and much of what you have is not known to me, so I can not now be of much help. I will try later. Still, I would be interested in the CDC equipment you mention. Where are you located, etc. I am in Southern California. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 11:16 AM Subject: new DEC additions >drove out to the country the other day and picked up this load of dec stuff. >some of you dec hotshots can tell me if it was worth the trip. lol > >i already have a microvax II, but in a tower unit form factor, almost like a >pc. (ba123 i think) the 3 i got are shaped different. two of them are big, >probably over 200lbs each easy. the first one has a sticker on it showing >model 63006. its a big unit, with a hood that opens up top and a big tape >drive <?> that slides forward. the machine says TS05 on the front. one model >came with two hard drives. the other unit 'named pugsly' is the same, except >it has a small tape drive and the backplane has cables going everywhere and >the side panels are off. thankfully they have wheels. the 3rd uvax is a much >smaller unit but wider than the one i have here in the computer room. it has a >dual vertical floppy drive and two hard drives. >i also got two vt220 terminals >about 40 orange binders about vax/vms. programmer's guide, reference, and who >know what else! >a letterwriter 100 >external drive RD54 >a tape drive (tk50?) >a rat's nest of cables to hook everything up. >some blank dec 5.25 disks >about 20 compactapes. half are backups. last bu was nov94. >also got these system tapes: >microvms 4.6 full bin >vax fortran 4.5 bin >decnet mvms v4 net bnd/n >tsv05 driver bin >microvms v4.7 bin >vhs lic key bin >microvms 4.6 bin mand update >mvII diag cust >rel:1.2.1 install microvax II (handwritten) > > >heh, if anyone can explain all this, that would be most welcome. it was hard >work having to unload those off a truck by myself. i might keep the smaller of >the 3 i got, but the two big monstors, i'm unsure of. the people i got these >from also want to give me a CDC machine that's even bigger... > >david

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>>< I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and >>< 11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix). >> >>I believe that is wrong. Unix was running on PDP-11s long before the >>LSI-11 or the 11/23 by many years. I think the 34, and 44s were teh >>popular hosts. >In fact, when I was a student at WPI in the mid-70's, we had a version >of Unix running on an 11/10 in the CS department (off RK05s)... But neither the 11/10 nor the /34 nor the /44 were, by any stretch of the imagination, "microcomputers". Definitely minis. Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by mbg＠world.std.com

>< I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and >< 11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix). > >I believe that is wrong. Unix was running on PDP-11s long before the >LSI-11 or the 11/23 by many years. I think the 34, and 44s were teh >popular hosts. In fact, when I was a student at WPI in the mid-70's, we had a version of Unix running on an 11/10 in the CS department (off RK05s)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Gemini Galaxy 2

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 4, 22:05, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Gemini Galaxy 2 > I am sure this thing is over 10 years old... I am also almost certain > that only UK people will have heard of this machine. > > I am currently repairing a UK Z-80 machine called a Gemini Galaxy 2. It's > basically a much-enhanced NASCOM, and uses the same bus pinout but with 3 > more address lines (there's some RAM on the CPU board to handle memory > mapping). > > I have 3 boards in the cardcage - the CPU (Z80 + 64K RAM + boot ROM), an > IVT (a video card with a Z80 on it) and a floppy controller/SASI > interface. The latter is linked to a single floppy drive and to a Xebec > SASI->MFM interface. And that, in turn is linked to a Rodime hard disk. > > At the moment, those boards seem to be working. It powers up and asks for > a boot disk. Which I don't have. Alas the hard disk is not working - it > starts to spin up and then spins down, and stops with the LED flashing (I > can get the exact sequence of flashes if anyone has the error code table). A common fault on Rodime drives was losing the index sensor output, which it uses to check the speed as it spins up. I've never found a way of fixing that completely, since it's a Hall Effect sensor inside the spindle motor. It generates two pulses per revolution, and the micro uses a special data pattern on track -2 to decide which is the real index pulse (it only needs it for formatting, really). At power-up, the micro checks the RAM and ROM, and then starts the motor and looks for index pulses. If it sees some, it then checks the speed -- there's a PLL that compares the sensor output to the reference clock (11MHz, divided down to 120Hz). If the micro doesn't see the index pulses, it generates "Fault 10" and shuts the system down. The manual for my RO350 notes that there is one jumper near the microprocessor which can be removed to circumvent the problem caused by loss of the special index info on track -2. You could try removing it, if you have an RO350 or similar. The two LEDs are for Power and Select; the Power LED flashes for fault codes. A long flash = 1, short flash = 0. 1 no index track data pattern 2 no flag 0,0 (didn't find Trk0 after 350 steps) 3 motor speed outside 1% (one!) tolerance at end of power-up sequence 4 motor speed outside 10% (ten!) tolerance in normal operation 5 flag zero stays true 6 not used 7 static Write Fault 8 RAM self test failed 9 ROM self test failed 10 no index 11 motor not up to speed I don't know if these codes are the same on other Rodime drives. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

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b252.html

by mlin＠mlin.lib.ma.us

[LINK] ______________________________________________________________________ Sunday October 4 Gates pushes hometown to Linux Linux-based document system costs 10% of Windows NT solution By Christine Burns - FRAMINGHAM It's ironic that in his zeal to equip his new $US53 million home with the latest and greatest technology - not to mention every modern convenience known to man, woman and child - Microsoft mogul Bill Gates drove his hometown into the arms of another operating system. The official paperwork filed with the city clerk in Medina, Washington, (pop. 3,082) concerning the Gates homestead had the city's file cabinets bursting at the seams. Of the 10 file cabinets housed in the old ferry terminal-turned-town hall set on the shores of Lake Washington, four were completely filled with upward of 40,000 pages of building permits, blueprints and change work orders all pertaining to the Gates estate. Factoring in future growth and recognising that they physically had no more room for storing municipal paperwork, the town fathers had to decide on whether to spring for a new town hall or a document management system. The latter being the more prudent choice, the town looked into NT document management systems that might fit in nicely with the town's Microsoft LAN. But what the town came up with was a product that runs on Caldera's version of Linux. This product rang in at less than 10% of the price of its NT counterparts, says Ray Jones, president of Archive Retrieval, a Kirkland, Washington, systems integrator. Archive Retrieval last month built and installed the city's new document management system, called The Archive. "When I asked the guys at town hall if they minded that the idle screen would display a big Caldera logo, they told me I could point it toward the window so everybody walking by could see it," Jones says. Sorry, Bill. No hometown advantage here. Back for more News _________________________________________________________________ @IDG Home | News Wire | @PC World | Industry Directory | Industry Events | PR Wire | About IDG | About Our Site | Help | (c) Copyright, IDG Communications Ltd, 1998. All rights reserved.

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >> In the 1950's, this stuff was new. Now, it's all for fun. I agree it must be a lot of fun, but there's no scientific/practical value. >Yes, but was there a 'point' to building a CPU from relays in the 1950's >? Other than the fun of doing it, of course. > Companies can make more money otherwise. If a kid buys $300 worth of parts and shares all of his homebrew apps with friends ala GPL, no one makes any money. If a kid buys $2000 worth of plastic and then keeps on buying $50 apps, it's a lot of money! It didn't happen like this on purpose, by the way. When stuff started to get bundled and kids started to play around with the computers their parent bought them... >Yes, but why not? Some of us would like to reverse that trend. > No, I'm not. How many people are there in Boston who do this stuff? 5? That's not much information. And a web site inspires no one. >Are you kidding? The web is full of sites with data sheets and >application notes. Just about every major (and many not-so-major) IC >manufacturer is there. When I started out you had to phone the >distributors and convince them to send you a data sheet. This wasn't >always easy if they realised you were a hobbyist who would probably buy a >couple of chips at most. > >> >> I'm curious why the HPCC would be interested in homebrew? Or is HPCC > >Well, it used a calculator, right..... Why should any computer club be >interested in homebrew. This project started as a replacement for the >much-missed HP-IL interface on the HP71 and sort of grew... > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Homebrew projects wanted for exhibit at VCF 3.0

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Heads up all you homebrew hackers! Next year we'd like to help revive the homebrew ethic by featuring YOUR homebrew projects in the exhibit section of the VCF. There will be awards presented for best homebrew project in different categories. Get out those soldering irons! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>< Take a look at the PICs as well. The programmer for those is very simple >< and Microchip do document the programming algorithms. A 16C84 programmer >< is 2 cheap TTL chips, a few discretes and a PC printer port. >I've looked at them and like most single chips MCUs they are bizzare. >They also offer a windows emulator that pretty neat. >Allison What you find "bizarre" is almost certainly what I like about them. 12-, 13-, and 14-bit wide instruction words, Harvard architecture so that I-space and D-space are completely different concepts, remarkabably efficient interrupt handling, remarkably low-power quiet modes, etc. A refreshing change from the bland uniformity of the 8080/8086/6800-derived microcomputers that dominate much of the world. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)

by hhacker＠gte.net

Eric: This is just the kind of restoration that interests me. Also, I noted that in another message, you refered to a PDP-10 simulator, the kx10. Where can I get a copy of the simulator? If you have information about the availability of hardware, I would very much like to receive same. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 10:38 PM Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.) >Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote: >> It's just that there are so many circuits in a -10 that getting one to run >> (even when new) required a full time field service engineer > >As I recall, the 2060 I used to use ran for months at a time without needing >repair (i.e., just scheduled PM). > >> (our -10 was delivered in 1973 so if it were still here it'd be 25 years >> old) > >Must have been a KI, then. I'm told that those were relatively easy to keep >running (at least compared to the KL). > >> I'd expect the probability of it running would be close to zero. The >> maintenance fiche is about a foot deep.... > >A former DEC field service engineer has told me that I'm a madman for wanting >to try, but he didn't put the probability anywhere near that low. The >system was in perfect working order when it was decommissioned, and not >much has happened to it since. Aside from testing the power supplies and >checking for oxidation on the connectors, I'm not really expecting that >much to be wrong with it. And I think I know where to find spare modules >if it is necessary. > >Cheers, >Eric >

27 years, 8 months

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Gemini Galaxy 2

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1412 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981004/22a59259/at…

27 years, 8 months

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Universal drive

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Anyway, the URL given was http://www.jshoenfeld.com/eindex.html > >I just tried and got told there was no DNS entry. Hmmm, looks like there was a misprint in the magazine I copied that URL from. On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 Lawrence Walker wrote: > beyond 720k. Many of the old ST Format 'zine's free disks used to be > formatted with extra sectors so that they could cram more PD on disks. There Same applies to some Amiga coverdisks from the Amiga User International mag; these used the diskspare.device 12-sectors-per-track format. > When I get a Workbench disk for my newly acquired Amiga 2000 I'm going to > see if FCpro will copy the Amiga 880k format. Would be a solution to transfer > problems from the net. Now if I could only find an easy way around the If you have an Amiga with a workable amount of RAM or a hard disk, it is quite easy to transfer files using PC-formatted (720K) floppy disks. Contact me privately if you want a copy of the Workbench disk etc., or more info on 1541-to-Amiga connection. >> You can make a cable to hook up a 1541 disk drive to a PC or Amiga and read >> files or disk images using this. > > I take it you're referring to the X1541 cable. I wasn't aware that it could > be used with Amigas. That looks promising. I wasn't. Perhaps I should have written "you can make cables..." instead. I only have experience with this on an Amiga, but there are at least two types of cable you can make, one extremely simple the other using a 7406 IC. There are several Amiga programs for reading C64 disks, the Easy1541 package being the nicest. You can read and write 1541 files and disk images, send commands (e.g. to format a disk) and using the supplied iec.library control any IEC bus device. -- Mark

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What you find "bizarre" is almost certainly what I like about them. 12- < 13-, and 14-bit wide instruction words, Harvard architecture so that < I-space and D-space are completely different concepts, remarkabably Check some of the 4bitters done over 18 years ago... nothing new to me. < etc. A refreshing change from the bland uniformity of the < 8080/8086/6800-derived microcomputers that dominate much of the world. Everything is a refreshing change from wintel. ;) Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Xerox 16/8

by hhacker＠gte.net

Jamie: Would you please enlighten me as to how you came into possesion of the Xerox. Also, I wonder if this computer has any relationship with the Xerox Sigma series of processors. Can you obtain serial numbers, etc? William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Bixby <jbixby(a)labwest.northatlantic.nf.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:45 PM Subject: Xerox 16/8 >I have recently came into position of an old Xerox computer that I >really do not know much about and was wondering if anyone out there >would be able to send me via e-mail any info that they may have on it. >The computer works and all but all that comes up is something about >tables and something about invalid drives. If anyone out there has any >info on this computer I would greatly appreciate it. >

27 years, 8 months

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IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)

by hhacker＠gte.net

Joe: I learned APL as my first language, at Orange Coast College in Costa Mesa California (Orange county, in So Cal) in 1972. We had an IBM 370/155H at the time, 1MB of RAM (as I understood it, the RAM was semiconductor), and the version of APL was from STSC, called APL PLUS. What a step down to then learn Cobol, Fortran, and RPG, though Assembly (ALC) was a lot of fun. We have come a long way since then. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 8:48 AM Subject: Re: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic) >Chris, > > I learned to program in APL on one in 1968 or 1969. We didn't have to use >punch cards, we were THE PROGRAMMERS, the machine was turned over to us >when we walked in the door. At that time it was the only computer in >central Florida. Not bad for a kid that was still in high school! > > Around 1979 I worked for a third party company in Virginia that >maintained 1130s and also upgraded them with third party hardware. I well >remember adding boxs with core memory made by someone else (not IBM and not >us). I think it upgraded them to a whapping 32K! One of the 1130s that I >upgraded was owned by Gallop in Princeton, NJ. They're the people that do >the Gallop polls. Another one was owned by Virginia Military Institute in >Lexington, Va. > > Those machines seem to last forever, I'll bet there's still some of them >in use! > > Joe > >At 09:55 AM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >>At 22:33 21-09-98 +0000, Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: >>>At 09:35 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Christian Fandt wrote: >>>> >>>>Ever hear much of an IBM 1130? Any info on the web, etc. on that machine? >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, I learned to program on one. Many years later I worked on them. >> >>That's where my interest lies as this was my first exposure to computing. >>In college I learned Fortran IV/66 in 1972/73. I've always been curious >>about those machines since then. Never heard of them anymore over the past >>25 (!!) years. >> >>At least I can tell stories to the youngsters, like other "old time" >>computer folks here, about spending hours in the noisy keypunch room on an >>IBM 026 (I think) keypunch machine punching out my programs onto the >>Hollerith cards, hauling the stack of cards (without dropping the danged >>things!) over to the Computer Operator Guru to be run together in a batch >>with all the other students' Fortran and Cobol programs overnite and coming >>back the next morning to be greeted with several pages of compiler errors >>typically generated by a very simple syntax error in the early part of my >>program. No fancy-a** GUI there!! :-) >> >>That machine was "huge" by some standards then: it had 32K of core memory! >>The technical faculty at this rather small junior college was quite >>impressed. >> >>Ahhh, those were the days.... >> >>Of course, I would LOVE to have one! Anybody got one laying around they >>want to get shed of?? <g!> >> >>Have any technical/interesting facts or anecdotes about the 1130 to share >>with us big iron folk Joe? >> >>Thanks, Chris >>-- -- >> >> >> >>Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >>Jamestown, NY USA >>Member of Antique Wireless Association >> URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ >> >

27 years, 8 months

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IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)

by hhacker＠gte.net

Christian: I have been monitoring this group for some time now, and though I find the microcomputer material not particularly interesting, there is much here to be enjoyed. Thank you for pointing the way. I remain interested in the PDP-11 you have. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)servtech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 6:55 AM Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic) >At 22:33 21-09-98 +0000, Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: >>At 09:35 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Christian Fandt wrote: >>> >>>Ever hear much of an IBM 1130? Any info on the web, etc. on that machine? >>> >> >> Yeah, I learned to program on one. Many years later I worked on them. > >That's where my interest lies as this was my first exposure to computing. >In college I learned Fortran IV/66 in 1972/73. I've always been curious >about those machines since then. Never heard of them anymore over the past >25 (!!) years. > >At least I can tell stories to the youngsters, like other "old time" >computer folks here, about spending hours in the noisy keypunch room on an >IBM 026 (I think) keypunch machine punching out my programs onto the >Hollerith cards, hauling the stack of cards (without dropping the danged >things!) over to the Computer Operator Guru to be run together in a batch >with all the other students' Fortran and Cobol programs overnite and coming >back the next morning to be greeted with several pages of compiler errors >typically generated by a very simple syntax error in the early part of my >program. No fancy-a** GUI there!! :-) > >That machine was "huge" by some standards then: it had 32K of core memory! >The technical faculty at this rather small junior college was quite >impressed. > >Ahhh, those were the days.... > >Of course, I would LOVE to have one! Anybody got one laying around they >want to get shed of?? <g!> > >Have any technical/interesting facts or anecdotes about the 1130 to share >with us big iron folk Joe? > >Thanks, Chris >-- -- > > > >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 8 months

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BA123 Power Supplies

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

If it isn't one problem it's another. Last night I left the PDP-11/23+ (still haven't gotten it to work with a /73 CPU board) running for about 4 hours to see how it handled being left on. The only thing running was "show mem" on the console since I was working on some other stuff. Much to my terror/irritation, about 10pm I noticed a buzzing or sparking sound. I quickly moved it away from the sofa, and started investigating. It sounds as if something in the area where you've got the breaker and the powercord plugs in is 'arcing and sparking'. I've got to take off in a little while, but I plan on looking into this later this afternoon or tonite. Unfortunatly I don't have any docs on the BA123 (just the BA23), so will be having a fun time figuring out how to get it apart. Does this problem sound familiar to anyone, and does anyone have any suggestions? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 8 months

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Available: WICO Trackball (read on...)

by djenner＠halcyon.com

WICO Command Control (circa 1982) WICO Trackball 72-4545 For use with: Atari Home Video Game Sears Arcade Game Atari 400 and 800 Home Computers Commodore VIC-20 Home Computer. I have several of these available, and they're unused. They're built like a tank. I was going to adapt them to other uses many moons ago, but never got around to it. $10/each, $25/3. Plus shipping. Or trade for DEC Rainbow, Pro-3xx, or PDP-11 stuff. Dave Jenner djenner(a)halcyon.com

27 years, 8 months

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Available: PDP-11 Refs

by djenner＠halcyon.com

I have some PDP-11 references up for grabs. These are all either small paperback books from DEC, small pamphlets, or foldout reference "cards." If you need any more specific information about any of these, let me know. - Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook, 1980 (quantity 1) - Microcomputers and Memories, 1981 (1) - RSX-11 Handbook, 1984-85 (1) - RT-11 Pocket Guide, V04.00, 1980 (1) - TECO Pocket Guide, 1978 (1) - PDP-11 Programming Card, 1975 (3) I'll give priority to anyone who has something to trade, but even if you don't have anything, let me know what you'd like. I'd like to find a "Mini-Reference to RT-11, V5.3" (or a complete set of docs, of course!) Dave Jenner djenner(a)halcyon.com

27 years, 8 months

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VCF Nerd Trivia Challenge Questions & Answers

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>The "TRS" in TRS-80 stands for this. > >Tandy-Radio Shack What does the "80" in TRS-80 stand for? Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 8 months

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Homebrew projects wanted for exhibit at VCF 3.0

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< In the process of doing so, of course, you'd end up building an S-100 < to {ISA|PCI} converter :-). These "modern" interface chips tend to < assume that they're going straight into a PC-clone. Been there done that and also wrote and article about subsetting ISA to get a bus more usable on non isa machines. A typical homebrew app would be grafting a WD1002WX to a z80 homebrew to provide a MFM hardisk. The example is the core of home brewing as it takes common cheap components to make a usable or improved system but is not a plug in mod. < And I think an S-100 Ethernet interface is substantially less weird < than an S-100 ARCnet board, and I've had several of those! Eithernet was done for S100 commercially. S100 took longer to die than most people thought. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

entertainment. But there is no real point in getting a high score, right < Building a CPU should be like that. It's entertaining. It's a hobby. And < for me, the feeling I get when it runs its first instruction almost < certainly exceeds any feeling I would get from a video game (OK, so I < don't like games much, but you get the point). Not so fast... There are good reasons to design your own cpu. Assuming your doing an existing cpu, speed and added features are some. For example doing a FPGA version of z80 that runs at 30mhz and also uses not more than 2-6 clocks per instruction. Tough you bet but, it would be faster than any z80! Practical maybe not. but that was a trivial example. Another could be a simple PDP-8 using modern parts and no core that can easily run at several MIPs (8Es were several hundred thousand instructions per second). Just some exercises. ;) Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Most Xilinx FPGAs can be configured by a serial bitstream from a < microcontroller or a PC printer port. Not too hard to do, and a lot < easier to modify than an EPROM. I use EEproms... easier still. They can also take a serial bit stream but in some apps the controller isn't operable until the FPGA is up. < The problem with most of these devices is that the format of the < bitstream is not documented (in fact some companies actively prevent it < being documented) and that you have to use their expensive software < (which often runs under an OS that I don't have...). However, take a loo < at the Xilinx 6000 chips - they are 100% documented. It's possible to < write your own compiler and downloader for these. They also look < interesting devices... Most the serial format is easy and a loader is not much but the compiler is not trivial as you have to do route maps and that's not trivial. < Take a look at the PICs as well. The programmer for those is very simple < and Microchip do document the programming algorithms. A 16C84 programmer < is 2 cheap TTL chips, a few discretes and a PC printer port. I've looked at them and like most single chips MCUs they are bizzare. They also offer a windows emulator that pretty neat. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and < 11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix). I believe that is wrong. Unix was running on PDP-11s long before the LSI-11 or the 11/23 by many years. I think the 34, and 44s were teh popular hosts. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > I doubt it. The homebrew/hobbyist movement had a very compelling driv < > force: just about the only way to get your own computer was to built i < > yourself. That's no longer true. But there is a pretty strong homebr < > aircraft movement, and it also still makes sense for robotics. < ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ < < Speaking as degreed Enginerd, a home-brewer from childhood, and a < private pilot.... when one's homemade *computer* crashes, one is at You called? Good description of me. ;) < least spared the attention of the NTSB and the EyeWitness News Team... You bet. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Homebrew projects wanted for exhibit at VCF 3.0

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, Jim Strickland wrote: > Ahh. I see. :) So if you took that same chip and built, say, an ethernet > board for an s100 bus or something equally wierd, that would qualify? In the process of doing so, of course, you'd end up building an S-100 to {ISA|PCI} converter :-). These "modern" interface chips tend to assume that they're going straight into a PC-clone. And I think an S-100 Ethernet interface is substantially less weird than an S-100 ARCnet board, and I've had several of those! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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Universal drive

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Is there a device that would allow _any_ disk, independently of format, including Apple ][ disks, to be read? I know Teledisk can do this for all conventional formats, but not Apple disks. It would be nice to connect one of these and read the disk image into a file. The main reason why I ask is for rescuing messed up floppies... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Doing something like a straight-8 is not trivial due to the shear number of parts and interconnects needed. A ttl version is manageable. The big thing is to experiment. I've considered doing a PDP-8E design and each time I take out a fresh sheet of paper it ends up being a 16bit or even 24bit machine. a 24bit machine with the same format as an 8 as some appeal. <the past 20 years. It is true that some of today's tools of the trade < for example, a good PAL/GAL programmer - are < more expensive than many of tools of 1975. But in real dollars, < today's $800 device programmer is much cheaper than, say, an 8080A < CPU, which had a street price of US$250 or so in 1975. There are Xilinx FPGAs (use an eprom for the pattern and it soft loads) saving the expensive programmer. Or the Lattice ISP parts also using minimally expensive interface cord (I think). Even if the parts cost some the lack of programmer lowers the cost. The expense is the software tools and the knowledge to write the VHDL/Xable code as needed to define the parts function. Check the TCJ web page for info about alta engienering for a cheap GAL programmer. There are parts like 8748/9 and 68705 that make programming pretty easy and the programmer can be homebrew. Their advantage is that assemblers can be had for free and the parts are cheap(or even salvaged). There are lots of options. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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movie computers (The List! ) (fwd)

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

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27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

HI Gary and all, At 10:27 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote: >To start things, I'd like to offer that I'm in the process of recreating >a copy of Edmund Berkeley's "Simon" computer designed and built by him >in the 50's as a demonstration "show and tell" of how a "real" computer >works. It's a collection of 100+ relays, two paper tape readers and >some blinkey lights. Version 1 was a "two bit" computer with the >ability to scale to 4 bits, while version 2 scaling to multiple precision >using a real CARRY! It's a small machine - "almost" a "laptop". Right >now I'm collecting parts - specifically looking for the two paper tape >readers (solenoid operated - not motor driven - so if anyone out there >has one or two of these...) > >For a reference to Simon, see the thirteen part series in Radio Electronics >magazine (US publication) from October 1950 through October 1951. >"Constructing Electronic Brains" by Edmund C. Berkeley and Robert A. Jensen. >There was also a cover article in Scientific American around that time - >sorry I don't have the issue handy with an overview of the project. > This sounds interesting. I will try to find the Radio Electronics articles you mentioned. Can you describe the paper tape, was it 5 bits? Maybe something else could be used to simulate it, maybe a mechanical drum or a diode matrix = rom if the number of bits isn't too large. My first "computer" project was the game of "life" using TTL logic, for example a 7490 decade counter to count the cell's neighbors as other counters moved through the 8 neighbor's x, y addresses. -Dave

27 years, 8 months

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Back e-mail files

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Could someone please cc: me on the list files #539 to #546. I had another run-in with installing Windows NT5 Beta, so I lost most of my C: drive, including my e-mail files. Thanks in advance! Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 8 months

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Any *really* homebrewing going on?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 08:00 PM 10/3/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > >> We start a little movement, people fall in behind it, it grows, and BAM!, >> homebrew is chic again! > >I doubt it. The homebrew/hobbyist movement had a very compelling driving >force: just about the only way to get your own computer was to built it >yourself. That's no longer true. But there is a pretty strong homebrew >aircraft movement, and it also still makes sense for robotics. Do remember however, to a large extent a 'robot' is just a computer on wheels with some very unusual peripherals... B^} -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

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HOMEBREW mailing list

by sethm＠loomcom.com

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27 years, 8 months

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Voltage needed

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I have a few questions: 1) Does anyone have the voltage for the backlight on a Toshiba TLX-1342-G3B1 CGA LCD? It was pulled from a Tandy 1400HD laptop. 2) Is there any way to connect a non-Apple monitor to the RGB port on an Apple //c? It's a 15-pin connector, like a PC joystick/MIDI connector. Being a 15-pin connector, would a VGA monitor work with it? Or would it just need to be a CGA, or would I just have to get an Apple monitor? 3) I know it's pretty rare, but does anyone have an LCD panel for the //c? ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

27 years, 8 months

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Computer for Sale

by Rand-E＠worldnet.att.net

Can you help me find someone interested in the original Amiga computer. I think it's the Amiga 2000 with 256K RAM. I'm open to all offers.

27 years, 8 months

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