- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by franke＠sbs.de

> http://www.milan-computer.de/html_gb/produkt.html The Machine is already in European Shops since half a year. Last Week they showed the 50 MHz 060 Version at the Atari Messe in Neuss, Germany. 80 MHz is anounced around december. This ist not a back from Grave thing - he is still alive and better than ever. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
0
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Looking for -10 software

by mbg＠world.std.com

Would anyone happen to have sources (and maybe even binaries) for EDDT or any programs which come on paper tape for the -10? I, um, er, need to test some code... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years

2
1
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Irwin 125 floppy tape drive

by svs＠ropnet.ru

G'day, What software for PC-DOS can drive this monster? Whopping 20 megabytes per tape :) I'll try Linux ftape too, but in case it fails, I'd like to have an alternative. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru

28 years

1
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kits, definitions, prices...

by franke＠sbs.de

> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> :: Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? >> Wash your mouth out with soap! (How about a 65816? :-) > You mean an Apple-1/GS? Hmm wouldn't give the 65802 the better replacement ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
0
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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies workS

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> thrown in. The NEC and Olivetti versions depended on external modems >> I have the Olivetti version - an M10, and the PCB certainly has positions >> for the internal modem components. Now, it would be quite normal for a UK >> machine not to have the modem (our CCITT tones are different from Bell >> tones at 300 baud, and there are different approval requirements), so I >> assumed that the US model had the modem fitted. > I have never read a report or review of an M-10 with an internal modem. > And the magazines that covered the Model 100 _did_ review the Olivetti > and NEC products, but of course those magazines were rather more than > three moves ago (per Poor Richard, three removes equals one fire), but > I do recall that they all had the same Kyocera main board with minor > changes per customer. Maybe no Magazine did review it, but I own an M10 with internal Modem. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
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Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

> There's always that issue. I find it analogous to retirement homes in > this area. People 'buy' a retirment home, townhouse, apartment, etc. for > a fixed price and then live there. When they die, it belongs to the > retirement home to sell again. The cycle continues. If you've seen some > of the homes around here, you know they've been around for a while. Part > of the charge funds maintenance fees and lawn care (the latter not being > important for computers). The continuous re-renting of the property > helps keep the available funds around to maintain everything. > I'm not saying that the 'organization' fund for maintenance to whoever > rented the computer, but the concept is similar. The end goal in this > case is to do what's possible to keep it around for the next person. I always fear that 'the organisation' will be put before the mission - in this case profit maximization instead of preserving the past. >>But, if we could keep it to a small and more individual to >>individual base, I'm in. > Do I hear charters? ??? Maybe I lost the thread here. >>> Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to >>> members by people who know the value of what's being insured. >>Thats a very dangerous terrain. > I do agree with you. Here, in the state of Pennsylvania, insurance of > any type is heavily regulated. It may not be as bad for other states or > countries. Maybe not - Afaik are insurances around the world very heavy regulated - to keep fraud away and to get enough taxes ... Another possible aproach might be to cooperate with insurance companies. Maybe the same way as for old car collections. At least here in Germany some (smaler) insurance companies are offering very interesting deals in cooperation with Verteran associations. One can get an all included insurance for a USD 200,000 veteran car for less than an minimal insurance for a actual USD 60,000 Mercedes. It just took around 15 years of talks to give them the idea how the collectors handle the cars and whats all this old car stuff is about. There are now even premium insurances where they will pay a complete rebuild of the car, even when burned. Even when a 'new' would be cheaper - and all at an afordable rate - thats exactly what a collector want: keep HIS car (computer) not just one of the same kind. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
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Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

Sam: > On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Hans Franke wrote: >> At first, a 'big' collection, like a museum (and I just >> assume there will be in the future some computer museums >> at least the size of car collections) will have already >> more than 95% of your (or mine) collection, counting the >> CPU's, so they only need 5% for display. The rest will be >> surplus or spare parts in best case. >> Second, they will have, for shure, already more computers >> and accessories than they are able to display. So yours >> might never be seen again autside the warehouse. >> Third, (and most important in my eyes) 99% of all of the >> hard to get software and documentation will never go on >> display > But at least it will be preserved for future research, which is important. or stay for some years until decomposed and ready for enhancing the vegetables area of your garden (like the former owner ...) >> Personal I have not decided what to do with my collection >> (althrugh I alredy have a last will where several persons >> are picked to get some parts or to be responsible for the >> distribution). > You mean you don't remember signing them over to me when you were > visiting? Alcohol does that to a brain. (You'd better check your wallet > too.) Of course I remember about our deal. As soun as the USD 100,000.00 are on my secret swiss account, you will get the promise of full and undivided ownership of all my VIC-20 stuff. >> c) sell them among fellow collectors for their real >> value. That means for example 100 USD for a C65 >> or a chicklet PET. > Are we talking eBay dollars or swap meet dollars? Just talkin about what I belive any old computer is worth: a nice talk and 1 to 5 USD or maybe 50 to 100 USD for real ohmigodicantbelive finds. (Just my personal feeling - In fact I pay most time a lot more :() Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
0
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Eventual fate of our machines

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Has there been any discussion about the eventual fate of our collections >after we are gone? Well, some supersymmetric (SUSY) theories of grand unification predict that protons will eventually decay. Current experiments put the mean life of the proton at well over 10^40 years, so I'm not too worried myself. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

28 years

3
2
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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Well, both the RAM16 and RAM17 use 24-pin 2Kx8 6116 SRAMs, but I checked the tech manuals and there is no mention of EPROM compatibility. The RAM20 was back to 18-pin DIPs, and all the Godbout Econorams I've seen are 18-pin. In short, no clue... Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:50 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards Can anyone confirm this vague memory, or set me straight? I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for the 2716s? -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years

1
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eBay strangeness

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Yeah, an unbuilt kit 4K memory board. Which is kind of neat, but it follows in the footsteps of all the bizarre bare unpopulated Altair circuit boards that have been on eBay lately. Did you notice the PET that STARTS at $575?!? Kai -----Original Message----- From: Bob Wood [mailto:altair8800@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:29 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: eBay strangeness Am wondering if it is me or if everyone is experiencing this? Someone has listed an Altair 4k memory board. The eBay item number is 34468468. Whenever I go to this listing, my computer locks up. It has happened every time I have tried since earlier in the day. Only happens with this listing and no others. It seems to happen as soon as eBay starts to download the photo from the seller's web site. I have never experienced this with any other eBay auction. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
0
0 0

RT-11 on 8" media

by mbg＠world.std.com

>In a box of Stuff, I got 2 cartons of BASF 8".... one of which is >marked "RT-11 V3 System DO NOT OVERWRITE!!!". Congrats... been a while since I've seen one... > All this absurd and useless detail aside... I am wondering if >there is a 'Minimum Set' of files, which placed on a floppy(ies) >would boot a PDP11... and, I am assuming, it would require Sysgenning? It's been so long since I saw a V3 kit, I've forgotten whether it was a version with split monitors and device handlers, or if the monitor had to have the system device built in (and the table for all other supported ones as well). If the latter, than you'll probably need to locate a file with a name of the form RXMNSJ.SYS (for RX01 MoNitor - Single Job). This file, with SWAP.SYS and PIP.SAV and you should have enough to start. You'll have to write the bootstrap on it, which, if I remember correctly, was done with .R PIP *DX:A=DX:RXMNSJ.SYS/O *^C (I don't think DCL was available yet... maybe CCL, but it is clumsy). If the former, then you'll need: SWAP.SYS RT11SJ.SYS DX.SYS PIP.SAV (and the bootstrap, written as mentioned above). > Is there available on the Web this info? There is a faq - I've forgotten where it is located... > Also, I have an 11/73 with RT-11SJ V5.0.... it has an 8" drive. >What would I have to do to make a bootable minimal floppy on this >machine? In other words how few files can one get away with to wake >up a PDP11 with only an RX02 clone as it's mass storage? By V5.0 time, the split monitors/handlers had been long accomplished, and DCL was around, and PIP had been split, so you'll need the following: SWAP.SYS RT11SJ.SYS (or RT11FB.SYS or RT11XM.SYS) DX.SYS (or DX.SYS or DXX.SYS) (plus any other device drivers you want) DIR.SAV DUP.SAV PIP.SAV RESORC.SAV And creating a bootable floopy is as simple as: COPY/BOOT DX0:RT11SJ.SYS DX0: (or substitute RT11FB or RT11XM) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years

1
0
0 0

Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Can anyone confirm this vague memory, or set me straight? I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for the 2716s? -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years

1
0
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I'd also add the apple lisa. In a message dated 10/5/98 5:52:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time, kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com writes: << ust for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but somewhat randomly ordered: 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular Electronics but was lost in shipment 2. Xerox Alto 3. Mark 8 4. Scelbi 8H 5. Kenbak-1 6. Micral 8008 7. Apple I 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator 10. IBM 5100 >>

28 years

12
16
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kits, definitions, prices...

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Caution: long-winded blather follows. Read at your own risk. :-) On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: ] ] On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: ] > I learned the definition of microprocessor to be a single-chip CPU, and ] > a microcomputer to be a computer based on a microprocessor. But I never ] > questioned it. Why is that a useful definition? ] [...] ] > I have my own ideas about which things are micros and which are not, but ] > in retrospect, the definition that I was taught is not a useful one; it ] > does not classify things into categories that I can use to any benefit. ] ] Exactly. Naming things is just a way to classify them, to separate one ] kind of thing from another. So, the first time a term like ] "microprocessor" is coined is due to necessity -- a new thing came into ] being and it needed a name. Applying that name to things that follow is a ] convienient way to establish a relationship to the original thing. Must it be things that *follow*? If another company had independently developed a single-chip CPU before Intel, (say they killed the project because some marketer popped in from the future and convinced them that Wintel would eventually kill it anyway) could you not bring yourself to call that thing a microprocessor? Isn't it the thing's physical properties that should matter, and not its intellectual ancestry? You are not a patent lawyer on the side, are you? :-) ] As far as I know, the name "microprocessor" was first given to Intel's ] 4004. It was just shorthand for "this new thing that has a high level of ] logic integration that gives you a bunch of stuff needed to build a ] general purpose computer." Calling anything else a microprocessor, to me, ] is just a way of saying it's a CPU that is in the same class as the Intel ] 4004: general purpose, highly integrated, commercially available, etc. Actually, it is not clear to me now if you consider that the defining characteristic of a microprocessor is that it descended from the 4004, or that it be single-chip. It looks like the only characteristic that a multi-chip implementation partially breaks here is "highly integrated". Then again, a two-chip implementation is not necessarily much less integrated than a single-chip. Now I wonder why this level of integration matters. Is there something that a two-chip implementation can't do, and a single-chip can? Did people really care about this level of space-savings to the extent that it was worth introducing a new word into the language? Maybe the significant bit was that the entire CPU was in specialized VLSI, and not made from parts so small and generic as to be re-wirable into something else altogether (ie: SSI/MSI). I mean, being reconfigurable is not in itself a bad thing, but if you are using parts that are so small and generic, maybe you have not achieved the level of integration that brings big cost benefits. If we count the non-genericity of the CPU chips as being the relevant feature of a microprocessor, then it is just an accident of history that the first things we called microprocessors were single-chip. Suddenly I like that definition a whole lot more than the one I grew up with. I generally dislike it when people try to redefine words for their own (usually political) purposes. But in this case, it seems we don't have a widely agreed-upon definition to begin with, so I don't feel too bad in changing sides. ] If somebody made a two-chip CPU that had all of the other characteristics ] of the Intel 4004, you'd have trouble calling it a microprocessor, because ] it would be missing something. Maybe you'd call it a two-chip ] microprocessor. If it were special purpose instead of general purpose, ] maybe you'd call it a special purpose microprocessor. But once you make ] something different enough from the 4004 that you need to add a bunch of ] qualifiers, you might as well just call it a CPU or come up with a new ] name. Actually, until ten minutes ago, I would have had trouble calling the two-chip thing a microprocessor because it broke the definition I learned as a kid: single-chip. But even the characteristic of being similar to a 4004 is relevant to the extent that you are careful in choosing which way it has to be similar. The first 4004's were probably in ceramic; should that be part of the definition? Probably not. Why did we care about the 4004? Is being implemented on a single chip really the important bit? Or was it cost, ease of use, small size, ...? A two-chip implementation could very well have been important to us for exactly the same reasons that the 4004 was. I can see that explaining why computers suddenly became cheap and ubiquitous could be useful. But the "single-chip" definition of a microprocessor is only circumstantially related to that. If the 8080 and its cousins had actually been multi-chip implementations, things would have progressed exactly the same way. (And pigs with wings *would* be eagles, dammit! :-) ) So, when is it useful to distinguish single-chip from, say, dual-chip? What kind of practical decision would someone make based on that? ] -- Doug Cheers, Bill. BTW, was the 4004 really the first in the Intel series of 4004, 4040, 8008, and 8080? I seem to remember that something in this sequence actually happened in non-ascending order, like maybe the 8008 preceded the 4004, or the 4040 came out last, or ...? It could make sense; you could imagine scaling back an existing design to penetrate some niche market with a cheaper part.

28 years

1
0
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Help: Identify my board

by oajones＠bright.net

Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On the back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you want to see what the board looks like click on my link below. http://www.bright.net/~oajones/myboard.jpg --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250 Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ mailto: oajones(a)bright.net

28 years

2
1
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but somewhat randomly ordered: 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular Electronics but was lost in shipment 2. Xerox Alto 3. Mark 8 4. Scelbi 8H 5. Kenbak-1 6. Micral 8008 7. Apple I 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator 10. IBM 5100 Kai

28 years

9
21
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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< We have no way of knowing what *would* have happened if Intel hadn't < invented the 4004 or if MITS hadn't invented the Altair, all we know is < what *did* happen. Therin lies the point we do not all know what did happen. There were many things that did happen that were unsuccessful or poorly marketed. < I've never read Intel's versions of the events -- all I have to go on ar < artifacts. I'm not aware of any computer artifacts that support the ide < that somebody else enabled cheap computers to be made before Intel did. By time PCs roamed the earth most of the players had died or were crushed. Intel was a very aggressive vendor even then. They played the you want 8205... then you buy OUR 8080 and 8224 and 8228 or forget it. That was when AMD and NATIONAL Semi and half a dosen other were also making 8080s. If anything it was intels competitors that drive the proce of the chips down so inexpensive computers could be made. Then ther ewas the manufaturers wars pushing the end price down. < etc. That would seem to completely destroy the relevance of the F14 < computer as far as microcomputers are concerned, but it does nothing to < deminish the importance of the 4004. True intel did that with the 8008, then the 8080 then the 8085 and the 8088 and the 80286... < At no point did I mention Intel's long-term success. This discussion al < along has been about the Big Bang that led eventually to cheap computer As a point the big bang nearly killed intel. In the early 80s intel was one of theose giving 10% across the board pay cuts (even managers!) due to the market pressure on them. < computer was the Big Bang. Did I misunderstand you? I'm saying that th It was White Sands, intel was the public display. Allison

28 years

2
1
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New Finds

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Today I walked into a thrift store and found a stack of Popular Science < Popular Mechanics, and others going back to 1974. I got real excited It was the Popular Electronics January 1975 issue. I still have the copy that arrived at home in the tradition of PE at the time in early December. Allison

28 years

2
1
0 0

Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Do I have to invoke the magic words "PDP-8" here? :-). Cheap enough < that thousands made their way into high schools in the early 70's, and < cheap enough that several did buy them for use at home. < < You don't need to be a "micro" to be affordable! Thank you Tim! In 1972 I was offered a PDP-8I used (clean) for $2000 I should have save for I'd just bought a new truck ($2100)... Allison

28 years

1
0
0 0

Apple power supply problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< right int he middle of the circuit board. it's still hot several minute < later! thankfully the computer itself is ok although it did reset my mai < computer on the same electrical outlet. provided i didnt destroy the who < bloody thing, what could be causing the problem? Shorted chopper transistor on the high voltage side and/or shorted shorted rectifiers. Allison

28 years

1
0
0 0

Eventual fate of our machines

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

> >Kind of a life time rental agreement ? >Sounds interesting. This might be a good idea. >But won't the mony winn over the idea ? There's always that issue. I find it analogous to retirement homes in this area. People 'buy' a retirment home, townhouse, apartment, etc. for a fixed price and then live there. When they die, it belongs to the retirement home to sell again. The cycle continues. If you've seen some of the homes around here, you know they've been around for a while. Part of the charge funds maintenance fees and lawn care (the latter not being important for computers). The continuous re-renting of the property helps keep the available funds around to maintain everything. I'm not saying that the 'organization' fund for maintenance to whoever rented the computer, but the concept is similar. The end goal in this case is to do what's possible to keep it around for the next person. >But, if we could keep it to a small and more individual to >individual base, I'm in. Do I hear charters? > >> Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to >> members by people who know the value of what's being insured. > >Thats a very dangerous terrain. I do agree with you. Here, in the state of Pennsylvania, insurance of any type is heavily regulated. It may not be as bad for other states or countries. > >

28 years

2
1
0 0

RT-11 on 8" media

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Some Newby-ish questions, if it so please The List: In a box of Stuff, I got 2 cartons of BASF 8".... one of which is marked "RT-11 V3 System DO NOT OVERWRITE!!!". And inside are 7 floppies, each with a DIR printout stuck in the envelope, (and the DIRs look like typical RT-11 files). These disks are numbered 21 - 26 and 30. The other box has no IDs of any kind, save three diskettes are labled 47, 49, and 50. The other 7 are unadorned, but they appear to have been spun... there are faint burnish markings on the surfaces. As an added, extra bonus, there is a listing of an 18-line Basic program which "Determines if One Number is a Factor of Another".... surely an unexpected blessing. All this absurd and useless detail aside... I am wondering if there is a 'Minimum Set' of files, which placed on a floppy(ies) would boot a PDP11... and, I am assuming, it would require Sysgenning? Is there available on the Web this info? Also, I have an 11/73 with RT-11SJ V5.0.... it has an 8" drive. What would I have to do to make a bootable minimal floppy on this machine? In other words how few files can one get away with to wake up a PDP11 with only an RX02 clone as it's mass storage? Bowing before the Silicon Slippers of the Knowledgeable Ones, Cheers John PS: Learning all the time..... TIA!

28 years

1
0
0 0

Eventual fate of our machines

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

> >there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the >eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository >for all of this stuff? How about a collector's organization which can act as a willed beneficiary for collectors. A board of directors can act in the best interest of the collection should a member (or non-member?) die and bequeath(sp?) his/her computer collection to the organization. Some items can be kept for a museum piece while others can bid for a chance to purchase the remaining items. This could fund the organization. The organization can also conduct interviews with bidders to determine if they are serving the best interest of the computer collection if they get the desired item. A clause can be put in to require the item to be retired to the organization upon their death. Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to members by people who know the value of what's being insured. Just my thought, and is well open to discussion. Jeff Salzman >

28 years

2
1
0 0

kits, definitions, prices...

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Say WHAT?!?!! This requires an explaination . . . . On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:17:33 -0700 Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)microsoft.com> writes: >Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 >OR >6800 machine. ^^^^^ > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:ckaiser@oa.ptloma.edu] >Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:08 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: kits, definitions, prices... > > >:: Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the >6502? > >Wash your mouth out with soap! (How about a 65816? :-) > >-- >-------------------------- personal page: >http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ >-- >Cameron Kaiser Information Technology Services Database >Programmer >Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 >849 >2581 >ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 >849 >2539 >-- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. >----------------- > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

28 years

1
0
0 0

Corrections to trivia

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've never read Intel's versions of the events -- all I have to go on are >artifacts. I'm not aware of any computer artifacts that support the idea >that somebody else enabled cheap computers to be made before Intel did. Do I have to invoke the magic words "PDP-8" here? :-). Cheap enough that thousands made their way into high schools in the early 70's, and cheap enough that several did buy them for use at home. You don't need to be a "micro" to be affordable! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

28 years

1
0
0 0

The PDP lives! To the best of my (limited) knowledge, anyway...

by mbg＠world.std.com

>RT-11 is available on the net at... > >ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z Correction - it is available ONLY FOR USE WITH THE SUPNIK PDP-11 EMULATOR. The hobbyist license which comes with it does NOT permit use on real hardware. >If you find it on media you are permitted to use it as a hobbiest. Again, ONLY with the SUPNIK emulator. It may not even be used legally with any other emulator. Having been a part of making it available on the net, I ask that people not violate the terms of the license... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years

1
0
0 0

kits, definitions, prices...

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 OR 6800 machine. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:ckaiser@oa.ptloma.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:08 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: kits, definitions, prices... :: Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? Wash your mouth out with soap! (How about a 65816? :-) -- -------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser Information Technology Services Database Programmer Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581 ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539 -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. -----------------

28 years

4
3
0 0

Somebody has a C65 on eBay

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>There's some evidence to suggest that the Lisa is the Apple VI, which raises >the question of what happened to IV and V. I think it would be more accurate to say that Apple considered naming the Lisa the Apple IV. "Lisa" was originally just a code name, after all. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years

4
6
0 0

kits, definitions, prices...

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/7/98 4:41:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, allisonp(a)world.std.com writes: > Not a big secret. It's a fact and there is a jumper on the board for it. > > REASON: > At one point MOS Tech was going to make a 6500 that was pin interchangable > with the 6800 but moto took them to court. the expectation was they would > make one board that could be either 6800 or 6500. > I have read that they did make it, the 6501. And, moto took them to court, etc. Kelly

28 years

1
0
0 0

Atari returns from the grave

by rax＠warbaby.com

http://www.milan-computer.de/html_gb/produkt.html -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

28 years

5
4
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Apple 1 6800/6502 (RE: kits, definitions, prices...)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

It's pretty clear if you look at the board. Note 7 in the Processor Section Schematic elaborates thus: "7. Unit, as supplied, includes a 6502 microprocessor, and solder jumpers at both points marked '6502', and has omitted all components shown within the dotted box. If a 6800 is substituted for the 6502 it is necessary to install all components shown, and to break both solder bridges labeled '6502'." The "dotted box" refers to a normally unpopulated area of the board. The components shown within the "dotted box" are just 4 transistors and a handful of resistors and caps. Remember that the 6502 was largely an electrical clone of the 6800 with a different instruction set. Obviously the supplied monitor ROMs wouldn't have run on the 6800, but the monitor source is supplied and could be translated. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:27 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: kits, definitions, prices... On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 OR > 6800 machine. That is *very* little-known! Either somebody got sold a 6800 machine with an Apple 1 label on it or there needs to be some documentation for this claim! References? -- Doug

28 years

2
1
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Gemini Galaxy 2 - It works

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years

1
0
0 0

The PDP lives! To the best of my (limited) knowledge, anyway...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Is there a user group or something akin that I could contact to purchas < RT-11 on 8" floppy? When I flip the "boot" switch, it accesses drive "0 < so I assume it's looking for the OS. The @ is the ODT prompt. If you type a / that prints the contents of the current address and if you enter a number it will replace it. @$n (n=0 to 7) prints a regiters contents and can alter it. @1773000G Start executing at 773000 (octal!) That address is commonly the address of rom bootstraps. RT-11 is available on the net at... ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z That is a unix gziped tar file of RT-11 V5.3. If you find it on media you are permitted to use it as a hobbiest. Allison

28 years

1
0
0 0

Latest finds

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Well, let's see. I got the kit for 50 guilders ($25), which is not a bad price if you ask me for such a near complete kit. As for the moment, I don't have a picture yet, but I could scan a picture from one of the manuals. Unfortunately it's not fore sale, but if someone want's to exchange it for a KIM-1, I could be tempted, or somewone would like to pay me mega $$$$ (maybe someone at eBay :-) ) Some more info about the board, it's labelled PWB 10010505 Rev C and has a copyright of 1976. The manuals have various dates, they are : Product Description book, dated January 1979, Assambly Language Reference Card, dated March 1979, MCS-80/85 Family User's Manual, dated October 1979, 8080/8085 Assembly Language Programming Manual dated 1977,1978, 197 SDK-85 System Design Kit User's Manual, dated 1978 Regards, Ed BTW, the guy who sold this also had 3 handheld terminals sets which doe work on CP/M. He also had 3 matching printers, 2 software development kits for the PC (has a Z80 processor on an ISA board), and 1 docking station. Apparently these sets were used f.e. as barcode readers, as the terminal could be equipped with a optical pen. -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

28 years

1
0
0 0

Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

> Phase one: Active procurement (Present state) > My collection currently exists in a very unorganized state in my > basement. I have no real inventory list. :) > Phase two: Active display > Fully inventoried with a list of what works and what doesn't. > We've discussed the possiblity of setting up some sort of cybercafe to > help pay for maintaining the collection. Good idea - I have to mark your place for my next visit. Surfing on an Altair ... > Phase three: Finding the collection a new home (After I'm gone) > This is the tough one. In the wrong hands the collection might > just go to a landfill and that would be a real shame. I have no kids so > there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the > eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository > for all of this stuff? National Repository ? Like a landfill at Mt. Rushmore ? Serious: I think it's a) mor than just a 'national' issue, and b) giving your legacy to any kind of 'big' museum / collection wouldn't be better than auctioning every single piece for maximum profit (for the heir). Let me explane the last one. At first, a 'big' collection, like a museum (and I just assume there will be in the future some computer museums at least the size of car collections) will have already more than 95% of your (or mine) collection, counting the CPU's, so they only need 5% for display. The rest will be surplus or spare parts in best case. Second, they will have, for shure, already more computers and accessories than they are able to display. So yours might never be seen again autside the warehouse. Third, (and most important in my eyes) 99% of all of the hard to get software and documentation will never go on display And last but not least, even if one of your computers get on display, they might refurbisch in a way you would never liked - removing stickers, that you saved as a sign of Zeitgeist of this machine, or even canibalise it for display. For example: The Deutsches Museum in Munich has a quite astonishing collection of old machinery on display, but compared to what they have in storeage, it's like showing a Apple Mac Plus as a representiv for everything Apple produced - from Apple 1 until Newton ... - Even for old Computers: they have a quite impressive collection of uP based Computers, but just an PET and an IBM-PC on display (within more than 5000 sq ft computer display). (To be honest, every of the things above can happen also with smaler collectors, but I think they are more likely for big collections/mueseum.) Personal I have not decided what to do with my collection (althrugh I alredy have a last will where several persons are picked to get some parts or to be responsible for the distribution). Possible ways where I feel comfortable are: a) Let 'em all on auction after my death for maximum money. b) Pick people for every parst to inherit to. c) sell them among fellow collectors for their real value. That means for example 100 USD for a C65 or a chicklet PET. d) If I ever will archive my own museum, building a base, where inheritance is no question, because it exists on it's own behalf. The idea behind b) and c) is just to give them to people who don't want them pure for the market (ePay) value, but for the thing itself. c) has an advantage, because I belive buying is better than getting a gift. In fact, if I haggle for an Apple 1 at 100 USD it's more fun than getting the computer for free (dont get me wrong - I wouldn't deny any free computer :). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

2
1
0 0

Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What about... < ...the KIM-1? (1976, 6502) < ...the JOLT? (1975, 6502) < ...the COSMAC ELF? (1975) < ...the SWTPc 6800? (1975, 6800) The cosmac elf was the august 1976 cover of Popular Electronics. The key here was the 8080 predates the Altair by over a year but within 1 year of the 8080 introduction there would be a slew of new CPUs many lower cost. The 6502 was the knee breaker! After that there would be the COSMAC-1802, SC/MP, and a truckload of others. < > this fact if, say, TI engineers had actually produced a microprocesso < > before Intel. The important "firsts" in documenting the personal comp < > revolution are commercialization, availability, and price. < < That certainly doesn't tell the whole story. The only thing this type o < historical "documentation" serves is a company's marketing efforts. They did in essence, TI brought us the calculator chip before intel with the 4004. The difference that is significant is the same number of gates were applied as a generalized programable system... That was important. The however is that TI1000 was the same time nearly. < imposed on the product. The CADC shows that much more was possible tha < was previously believed for that early era in microprocessor history. < That's significant, and relevant. The CADC also attacked the specialized vs programmable before intel. < I don't think chapters need to be re-written either. A whole NEW chapte < needs to be added.

28 years

1
0
0 0

Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Yes, I would like to find a "Intellec 8", I think the same as a MCS-8, t < (Intel seems to use the term "MCS-8" very loosely in the literature I ha < There was also a single board computer, Sim8-01 with 2k bytes EPROM and < byte ram. It could be used with a MP7 EPROM (1702A) programmer. MCS-8 is the SIM8-01, I still have the manual for it. Allison

28 years

1
0
0 0

Top 10 sins of a computer scrapper

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Where were you guys 4 years ago? I'm really sorry for my part.It is real < hard to figure out what is collectable, particularly if you don't recogn Here in MA doing what I do now. I collect stuff I've used to would like to have but couldn't afford back then. Much of it is pseudo collectable, IE: I collect it but that does not assume it has any value other than I'd like to set it up and actually run it. Allison

28 years

3
2
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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< major an impact the military has played on computers. The ENIAC, < F14CADC, DEC Alpha, and other stuff I'm sure can all be attributed < to the pentagon. While the military was a prime consumer of advaced technoology and even fostered some, how the hell did DEC Alpha get in there? Alpha was developed by DEC as an answer to what to do to create the next generation of better than VAX machines (they were betting the farm on it too!). It was the exact thing DEC was doing when they developed the VAX to better the PDP-11. < And _that_ is significant because instead of saying that the computer < is a triumph of enterpreneurs and daring capitalists, we can _also_ < say that it is a triumph of America's great war machine. political crock unfortunatly. Most of the developments were actually driven trying to be better than that competition. At that time you had AMD, AMI, Intel Fairchild, RCA, Signetics, TI, motorola, MOS technology, SMC and that's only the few. That commercial space battle was far higher pitched and far longer lasting than any war. Also if anything any of the guys here that were in the military will tell you while the F14 CADC or other hardware were at one time advaced they also tended to stay in service for many years after the commercial space caught up and passed it! Allison

28 years

6
6
0 0

Unknown Apple II Card / TRS-80 Model II

by pb0aia＠iaehv.nl

You can add these TRS-80 Model II links to your page: http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/modelii.html http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/trsother.html http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/trs80_m2.htm http://www.sincom.com/~jandtbos/model2.html I'm not sure about the last one, it doesn't seem to work anymore. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Computer Home page - http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/ Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

28 years

1
0
0 0

Unknown Apple II Card

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I have an unknown interface card for the Apple ][. At least I think it is for a II. It has a 50 pin connector down the front of the card. "REV E" and "SCI Typ. 1A" dated "Jan 24 '85" printed on the card. An EPROM with 8443EPP AM2732ADC Copyright 1983 AMD printed on it. That's all I can find printed on the card. Any ideas? For those who can handle images, there are a couple at: http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard2.jpg Not the best pictures but I have the camera here right now and may take some closeups of the board and chips. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years

2
2
0 0

Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

> The Radio History Society http://www.radiohistory.org/ is an IRS > 501(c)(3) organization which can provide donors with a tax deduction. > A single friend of mine has decided that he will donate much of his > collection to RHS when he passes on as nobody in his family is > interested in old radio. > Anyway, I'd imagine CHAC and other organizations can offer help in > directing people to good homes for their gear. I don't think it's just about the givin'way thing. There are dozens of organisations out there were a computer collection wouldn't be rejected, it's about doing something where one could have at least a strong belive that they will act realy in favour for the collection items, and see them at leas a bit the way we see our'babys' - as something special. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
0
0 0

Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

>>there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the >>eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository >>for all of this stuff? > How about a collector's organization which can act as a willed > beneficiary for collectors. A board of directors can act in the best > interest of the collection should a member (or non-member?) die and > bequeath(sp?) his/her computer collection to the organization. Some > items can be kept for a museum piece while others can bid for a chance > to purchase the remaining items. This could fund the organization. The > organization can also conduct interviews with bidders to determine if > they are serving the best interest of the computer collection if they > get the desired item. A clause can be put in to require the item to be > retired to the organization upon their death. Kind of a life time rental agreement ? Sounds interesting. This might be a good idea. But won't the mony winn over the idea ? Altrough I belive, that certain organisations, like government, unions, etc. are neccersary, I dislike most organisations, since every one of them tends soon to put the organisation itself on top of the mission. The organisation becomes the mission instead of serving it. This is especialy true for (so called) privat (NGO) organisations without true public control. The process is called professionalisation. Enthusiasm fades, and business is the rule. Maybe I'm a bit negative, but I have no trust in any fixed long time perspective organisation supposed to do 'fun' (non comercila, ethusiast) things (So, Sam, if there is a planned membership for VCF, I'm out :). But, if we could keep it to a small and more individual to individual base, I'm in. > Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to > members by people who know the value of what's being insured. Thats a very dangerous terrain. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

1
0
0 0

Corrections to trivia

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's >when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a >MCS-8 from intel?!?! I disagree - an even *more* likely find is a 11/34a with an 8008 running the front panel! Tim.

28 years

2
1
0 0

Kaypro 10 HD woes

by jpl15＠netcom.com

One of my Kaypro 10s has a bad case of the dreaded 'Spindle Stiction', ie. it won't spin up on it's own. I have learned to smack it in just the right place, to produce a radial moment normal to the plane of rotation, and then it spins up and boots. The first time I did this, I backed up the drive to floppies, so if the drive dies for good, no big deal. Allison, I believe, was the person who discussed this fairly common problem, some months ago. And since starting a drive with the handle of a big screwdriver can only be termed *abuse*, it's amazing that the poor thing works at all. But try this, in case there is something wonderful living on the HD, before you format it. (If in fact the no-boot is caused by stiction....) Cheers John

28 years

1
0
0 0

Formatting a Kaypro 10 Hard Drive

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

You need the Kaypro 10 CP/M 2.2G Reload Disk Set (14 disks), which you can get from Don Maslin, keeper of the CP/M disk archives (donm(a)cts.com), for $3/first disk and $1/additional. The man's a saint. The 10 will work with up to 8 heads and, I believe, 306 cylinders. A Kaypro 10 manual would be helpful too, I got mine from my local Kaypro users group (yes, they still exist, all four guys of them). Some other stuff is available from The Computer Journal (http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/kaypro.html) Kai -----Original Message----- From: Phil Clayton [mailto:handyman@sprintmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 9:12 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Formatting a Kaypro 10 Hard Drive Just purchased a kaypro 10 Computer. The Hard Drive is Dead.. As I understand it has an MFM type drive.. I have several old drives (ST 225) from old XT's that I could replace the bad one with.. (If possible).. My knowledge is limited on CP/M.. Even more limited with on CP/M on Hard Drives.. Being a computer tech I formatted hundreds of old MFM type drives on XT's but this thing is very different.. I don't know where to start on this project. Can anyone help? Thanks.. Phil....

28 years

1
0
0 0

Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:07 PM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. > >- STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) I seem to remember this actually coming out, but I can't verify it. >- TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 >character LCD display, $249) Got one. One just sold on Ebay for something like $150 or so. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

1
0
0 0

Unassembled Altair kits

by sethm＠loomcom.com

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28 years

3
2
0 0

Eventual fate of our machines

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

At 08:10 AM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Phase three: Finding the collection a new home (After I'm gone) > This is the tough one. In the wrong hands the collection might >just go to a landfill and that would be a real shame. I have no kids so >there is no one to carry on the tradition. This is what wills are for, insuring that your stuff is taken care of the way you want it to be taken care of. One way to do this in the US is with a 'living trust.' You create a trust and transfer title of your collection to it, in the trust you and your wife are trustees. Then you specify a successor trustee (say some local technology museum) and then when you are gone the control of the assets moves (without probate!) to the sucessor trustee. In the trust you can limit what the trustee can do with the trust assets, including disposing in landfills. --Chuck

28 years

2
1
0 0

Corrections to trivia

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi All, At 07:52 AM 10/6/98 -0400, Allison wrote: >No Intel never made a cheap computer. They made CPUs, Memory and support >chips. The MCS. MDS, intellect even the SDKs were anything but cheap. > >< enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level o >< integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main featur >< of the important event. > >It's everything as the 8008 hit the level of integration needed to produce >a viable general purpose commercial cpu. > >For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's >when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a >MCS-8 from intel?!?! > Yes, I would like to find a "Intellec 8", I think the same as a MCS-8, too. (Intel seems to use the term "MCS-8" very loosely in the literature I have.) There was also a single board computer, Sim8-01 with 2k bytes EPROM and 1k byte ram. It could be used with a MP7 EPROM (1702A) programmer. Another company was Martin research which made "Mike" series computers. Haven't found any of these either, but did find by inter-library loan their "Microcomputer Design" book, which has lots of 8008 info! It has a schematic of their "Mike 4" system, an 8008 based unit with about 20 ic's. It also included other minimal 8008 systems such as a 9 chip version. I have found a source for 8008 chips, so maybe a homebrew 8008 system is more likely as a future project. -Dave

28 years

1
0
0 0

Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

That's good, the Sphere works better unassembled :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [mailto:william@ans.net] My unbuilt Sphere-1 is getting donated to RCS/RI, with the understanding that the boards will never see an iron.

28 years

1
0
0 0

Eventual fate of our machines

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I belong to the Mid-Atlantic Antique Radio Club which has established the Radio History Society, a non-profit musuem, which is located at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. The Radio History Society http://www.radiohistory.org/ is an IRS 501(c)(3) organization which can provide donors with a tax deduction. A single friend of mine has decided that he will donate much of his collection to RHS when he passes on as nobody in his family is interested in old radio. Anyway, I'd imagine CHAC and other organizations can offer help in directing people to good homes for their gear. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Eventual fate of our machines Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/7/98 11:09 AM Has there been any discussion about the eventual fate of our collections after we are gone? My wife and I have discussed this at some length. I see three phases to my collection. Phase one: Active procurement (Present state) My collection currently exists in a very unorganized state in my basement. I have no real inventory list. Phase two: Active display Fully inventoried with a list of what works and what doesn't. We've discussed the possiblity of setting up some sort of cybercafe to help pay for maintaining the collection. Phase three: Finding the collection a new home (After I'm gone) This is the tough one. In the wrong hands the collection might just go to a landfill and that would be a real shame. I have no kids so there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository for all of this stuff? Thoughts to ponder, George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct07.110957.1767.68258; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:10:00 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id IAA02277; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:07:26 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA36360 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:07:17 -0700 Received: from racsys.rt.rain.com (racsys.rt.rain.com [199.2.210.34]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id IAA12 828 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:07:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost.rdrop.com [127.0.0.1]) by racsys.rt.rain.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24650 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com) Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.96.981007080210.24636A-100000(a)racsys.rt.rain.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: George Rachor <george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Eventual fate of our machines In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981007072916.6874A-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years

1
0
0 0

Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I meant, what was the proportion of each media at the time? No idea, seems biased to tape where I lived (LI NY). < Back in the days of my IMSAI experience, we had both an ASR-33 and < a cassette interface card. I don't remember the relative costs, < though. A cassette interface and deck were less costly than < an ASR-33, even at ham radio prices? 1975-76 time frame a used ASR33 was 500-900$US. The only machines at the ham meets were BAUDOT with 5level tape (and slower), they ran 75-150$US for a good working one. The ACR and a cassette tape were like 199$US and 35-45$US and faster as well. The third choice was an optical PTreader homebrew or commercial and they required a parallel port (cheap or trivial build) and inexpensive. Punching was again a cost thing and the old teletype BPRE punches were a good find at 100-200$. The point being things we take for granted as cheap or available now (or during the 80s) were less common and expensive in the mid to late 70s. Back in '76 showing up with some kind of terminal storage and more than 4-8k of ram and Basic generally put one in the fortunate class. My altair by late '75 had a home made ascii keyboard attached to a MITS-PIO and a modified (for 64char, 16line) SWTP CT1024 and a MITS 88-ACR and 12k of very flaky (solder plated edge connector rot) 88-S4k ram. I was able to run MITS 4kbasic, 8kbasic and Programming package II. That for its time was a power system. A bit more history... the other systems seen at the time that were pretty neat were the AMI EVK series (6800 SBC with decent amount of ram and rom) and the SWTP 6800. I havent seen either one in years. Both were pretty nice systems and less hardware intensive for the user. It seemed to me at the time that the 6800 camp were doing more software work and the 8080/s100 camp were into hardware. Anyone remember the Viatron systems that were turning up surplus around '75-78 time frame? It used tape and had a multichip LSI cpu. Allison

28 years

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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I would do that is I knew how. My memory board has several < jumpers and a couple of 8-switch dip switches but I have no doc on < the board so don't know memory settings. It is a 64K board so I < would assume I have a full address space. It is a N* RAM board < BTW. Can't help on that no docs for that board. < > Are they personalized for the machine and are all the port headers don < > the mother board set up correctly? Are the media the correct density < > the controller in use? < < Good question. These were sent to me by someone on the list. < The disks are 10 sectored (hard) double sided double density. The < controller is an N* Micro Disk Controller MDS-AD or that is all I can < see on it. The MDS-AD is a double density controller...ok there. Now the disks can be formatted as 48tpi or 96 tpi as the controller will support most 5.25 drives and if the drive is wrong... Personalizing, if they were set up for different IO they may not work on you NS*. < Any other tips to help out? Get docs! Your working blind without them. Allison

28 years

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For sale stuff gone.

by william＠ans.net

OK, all of the stuff is now spoken for. I had to flip a few coins on some of it, as there was demand for some of the things. Sorry to anyone that lost the coin toss - I wish I had more. I am still looking for those IBM 5103 ribbons. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >How do you know it was paper tape... MITS basic that was "pirated" was < >often supplied on MITS ACR format audio tape. Still have one! < < At the time, were ASR-33s or cassettes the more common media for exchang Yes! ASR33 was expensive so many people used terminals or VDM1/parallel port keyboard or other combinations. Also ASR33 was 10 cps and ACR was 300baud... considering the 4k basic was a 8-9 minute load on the tty and about 3 on the ACR it should be obvious tape was a better way to go. Allison

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< 4) 'The original' paper tape of BASIC that was pirated from Bill Gates. How do you know it was paper tape... MITS basic that was "pirated" was often supplied on MITS ACR format audio tape. Still have one! Allison

28 years

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Tron, con't

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Regarding Tron and the recollection of friend-of-a-friend-who-worked there anecdotes, it reminds me of what's still happening in the computer graphics business today: everyone wants to take credit for what's on the screen. For example, the company I work for, Viewpoint DataLabs <http://www.viewpoint.com>, did the modelling for the recent movies Godzilla and ANTZ. What does this mean? It means our artists and 3D modelers created some of the data used by some other company's animators. Of course, our PR people trumpet the fact that Viewpoint made Godzilla. Well, we made the computer model by digitizing and finesse-ing some big rubber scale models made by someone else. And it goes on and on... some other company does the animating, someone else does the rendering, someone else does the compositing of real and fake images, someone else produced it, someone else funded this or that, someone else's 3D software was used to render it. At Siggraph, the industry's big trade show, the Kingston memory chip booth wasn't far from our booth, and they spent the week telling people to buy their memory because it was used in the machines that rendered scenes from Titanic. Back to Tron, though - three-four years ago, I remember meeting someone at a Siggraph who claimed to have worked on Tron, and who still had a copy of the original computer 3D models. I think he was a Caucasian wearing a robe and Sikh-like turban, but my memory may be faulty. If the truth is ever documented, I'm sure Tron was assembled using what equipment they could afford, and whatever could get the job done to the satisfaction of those paying the bills. - John

28 years

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Unknown Apple II Card

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I have the drive but no adaptor and when i took mine apart, it appears to be just a standard seagate mfm type drive, i think mine was an st-225. In a message dated 10/6/98 11:00:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, fauradon(a)pclink.com writes: > It's a Host adapter for the SIDER hard drive. I believ it is SCSI type. I > have the manual and software if you ever get your hands on a sider Hard > drive. > Francois

28 years

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Unknown Apple II Card

by fauradon＠pclink.com

You might be able to use any 10Mb (or so) external SCSI drive, I'm not sure about that though. I can get the connector pinout from mine, I haven't taken it apart yet so I don't know what Hard drive it takes. I could chek if nobody else has the answer ready. Experts please? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:24 PM Subject: Re: Unknown Apple II Card Ok, guess I'll have to look for a SIDER if that's what this is. Wish I'd know that when I was at the thrift where I picked it up. Unfortunately they recently threw everything out and became a $0.99 store. Shame because they still had a bunch of computer stuff I wanted to pick up. On 6 Oct 98, at 23:01, Francois wrote: > It's a Host adapter for the SIDER hard drive. I believ it is SCSI type. I > have the manual and software if you ever get your hands on a sider Hard > drive. Francois ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years

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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by franke＠sbs.de

> - Panasonic JR-200 (I think this may exist) Exists, I have one. > - Sanyo PCH20/PHC25 (Z80, 4K/16K, $99/$199) Exists (at least acording to some web sites. > - STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) Never heared of. > - TI 99/2 (Supposedly $100, including 4.2K RAM) Never heared of. > - TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 > character LCD display, $249) Exists - I miss it in my collection, but have seen several > - Unisonic Futura 8300 (Z80, 2K, Sinclair BASIC, $90) I have one, originaly boxed, althrough the box name is different (Your Computer). But almost any Exemplar I know has a different name. > - Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) I own two of them. They have been somewhat popular for a very short time. > By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? Shure, have one, barebone :( Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years

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Top 10 sins of a computer scrapper

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa. I have sinned. I am retireing after 10 yrs of reselling computer, test and laboratory equipment. It was with interest and dismay that I read the top 10 Holy Grails and the following threads. After ballooning up to 16,000 sq. Ft of warehouse my partner insisted on scrapping large parts of the inventory. I was an accumulator, he was a scrapper. Needless to say we didn't last. Unfortunitely during that time we destroyed a lot of older computers including a Xerox Alto, I recognized it later on Revenge of the Nerds several Xerox Stars, I have some of the factory software left and maybe a mouse. a Magnolia Jaquard 100 Word Processor Used the 4004 computer chip Unknown SBC with an 8008 chip, I saved the chip (Std bus I believe) 3 IBM 5100s Scores of early Intel development systems including several Prompt-48 and MCS-8, we bought large lots from Intel Chameleon, I may have a manual or two. Litton 1251, Dual drum memory 400K, punch tape programmed PDP-8 Several Teraks Cincinatti Millichron 2000, I may have a programming card left I'm sure some of the big iron counts but I didn't know that field well. OK so this is more than 10. Where were you guys 4 years ago? I'm really sorry for my part.It is really hard to figure out what is collectable, particularly if you don't recognize it. I felt really bad when I finally recognized that that funny looking Drive with Xerox on it. Is there any interest in a DEC VAX 730, a General Automation Zebra 5500 (a Pick machine), DEC RA60 & RA81s, Tektronix 4113, NCR 1000. These need to go very soon. I enjoy the list. Thanks a lot. Paxton

28 years

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Smoke Signal Broadcasting FS

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I have gotten lots of requests for details on this system. So I am posting a list of Chieftain systems and their board count that I have for sale. I am open to all offers, of course I am looking for the best one. Please reply to whoagiii(a)aol.com not to the list. I and the equipment are in Portland, Oregon. Smoke Signal Broadcasting System 1) Chieftain with a wood top. with 2 5 1/4" FHFD and the following boards LMB-1A 9 slot Backplane with 8 slots IO 6809 CPU OS9-SCB69 CIMIX 64K Static Ram M512X populated with 128K 2X M32-X 1 fully populated, the other 6 of 8 banks full M16-X Fully populated DCB 4A Drive Controller 4 2 port serial cards 2) Dual 8" DSDD with a wood top. Qumetrack 242s, attaches to #1 3) Chieftain with wood top with a 5 1/4" FH MFM Hard Drive with an attached Omti 20C Controller LMB-1A 9 slot Backplane with 8 slots IO CPU 50719, 68B09, OS9 SCB-69 M512X with 128K 2X CIMIX 64K Static Ram M16-X Fully populated M32-X Fully populated HDA-P/STA-A/HDA-S 4X 2 port Serial Cards It is interesting that the unit with the hard drive has no floppy. There is wiring that leads me to believe that one power switch turned on all three units at the same time. This is cut now. Paxton

28 years

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Cromemco FS

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I have gotten lots of requests for details on the systems. So I am posting a list of Cromemco systems and boards that I have FS. I am open to all offers, of course I am looking for the best one. Please reply to whoagiii(a)aol.com not to the list. Portland, Oregon 97214 is home. Cromemco C 10 Computer with evternal 5 1/4" Floppy and Kbd I think this system was the controller for the Computer following System 2 in a dual height wood cabinet 30"X24"X36" with a 5 1/4 FHFD and the following cards : UUX 68020 CPU wi 68881 - 16 mhz 64FDC PRI STDC SFLSH 2 2048 MSU MCU SVID SDMB 1024 KTD SDCM SDMA The following software in 6 boxes of 5 1/4 disks containing Fortran IV, Ptr., Com, WP, Proprint, Procall, backup and Data and 68000 Fortran 77. Most of the disks are copies and not originals. The following Books a Binder of Program data, Cromix-plus users manual, Intro to C+, Baseline Graphics Inst., S Series Board Family Inst., SDD Camera Digitizer Board Manual, SDCM Color Monitor Board Manual, C-% Tech Reference, Cromix+ Programming, 68020 Cromix Admin. This system may not be complete. The boards appear to be out of order and the cables pulled off the cards. All of the cables may not be there. System 3 with 2 8" 1/2 Ht Floppys and a 5 1/4" hard drive (I would have to remove it to identify it) and the following cards 4X 256KZ Memory DPU 68000/8 Octart 16FDC WDI-II System 1, CS-1H, 6/13/83, 8 Slot MF with the following cards WDI-II 4X 256K Memory DPU Z80 & 68000/8 Octart 16FDC This Octart brake3out cable is homemade. It breaks out to 8 serial connectors mounted on a wood board. One of the cables has been damaged by it being ripped out of its plug. Extra Cards and Parts, please bid each. 3X 64KZ-I 2X 256KTP ZPU ZCPU SCC 64FDC TU-ART Quadart attached to a IOP Keyboard All are untested. After reading the threads about starting old systems I decided to sell them as-is untested. Thank you, Paxton

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 19:38 6/10/98 -0700, Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote: >At 08:24 PM 10/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >>I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance >>represented on this list. > >If I've got any that aren't duplicated, I'd guess them to be: > >NEC PC-8201 (not the PC-8201A) [Snip] What is the difference between the PC-8201 and the PC-8201A? I've got two PC-8201As, and what *seems* to be an PC-8201. It's a different, bronze, colour and has "NEC PC-8201" printed on the top left-hand corner. However, the silver sticker on the bottom of the computer says it is a PC-8201A. How can I tell for sure which I have? Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

28 years

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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 17:07 6/10/98 -0700, Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote: >New computers announced at the 1983 CES: > >Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. > [Snip] >- Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) Not only do these exist, they were very popular in Australia in the mid-80s. They were marketed as the Dick Smith VZ-200 (Dick Smith is *the* major electronics retailer in Australia). Not only that, but there was also a VZ-300 (also known as the Video Technology Laser 310). For details, please see the following URLs: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Video,Technology_Laser_200. html http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Dick,Smith,Electronics_VZ-2 00.html http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Dick,Smith,Electronics_VZ-3 00.html http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Video,Technology_Laser_310. html >By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? Yes, I've got one, Unfortunatly I have no power supply for it. Not only that, but I don't know what the power supply pinout is, nor where I could get a plug to suit the strange power supply socket (it's just like the one for the TI-99/4a, except one of the pins is bigger, so a TI-99/4a socket won't fit). For details on the TI-99/4, see http://99er.interspeed.net/994.html Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

28 years

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Unknown Apple II Card

by fauradon＠pclink.com

It's a Host adapter for the SIDER hard drive. I believ it is SCSI type. I have the manual and software if you ever get your hands on a sider Hard drive. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:40 PM Subject: Unknown Apple II Card I have an unknown interface card for the Apple ][. At least I think it is for a II. It has a 50 pin connector down the front of the card. "REV E" and "SCI Typ. 1A" dated "Jan 24 '85" printed on the card. An EPROM with 8443EPP AM2732ADC Copyright 1983 AMD printed on it. That's all I can find printed on the card. Any ideas? For those who can handle images, there are a couple at: http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard2.jpg Not the best pictures but I have the camera here right now and may take some closeups of the board and chips. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years

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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Nope, no manuals except a copy of the N* DOS manual and a < monitor manual I believe. The system has a CPU board, disk < controller and a 64K RAM board so I'd guess N*DOS should load < fine. Opened it back up but don't see any DIPs near the back. < There are a couple of switchs outside the case which are labeled < for different baud rates for the video and printer port. The dips are on the mother board at the rear of the machine inside. They set up all of the IO charateristics including the sense of pins two and three in the serial connectors. I know of no Horizon that has switches for baud rates, that was a user mod. Allison

28 years

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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon < I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the < disk drive and then nothing. I've plugged some spare terminals into < the port marked "Video Terminal Port" and played with baud rates < and other comm settings but get nothing on any of my terminals. There is no resident monitor or software other than a disk boot in a standard horizon. It will not say anything to a terminal untill it boots (assuming the booted code has something to say). If the boot fails likley the only signals you get is disk activity or the lack of it. Make sure you have at least 32k of ram starting at 0000 for CPM or 16k starting at 2000h for NSdos. < Also tried straight through and flipped comm cables. Can < someone give me some info on these and maybe walk me through < getting it set up and running so I can check and see if I've missed < something? Oh, I'm trying both N*DOS 5.2 and N* CP/M 2.2. Are they personalized for the machine and are all the port headers don on the mother board set up correctly? Are the media the correct density for the controller in use? I have and still run one. it occurs to me, if you have DOCS for it the setup and checkout procedure is in there. Allison

28 years

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's < >when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a < >MCS-8 from intel?!?! < < I disagree - an even *more* likely find is a 11/34a with an 8008 < running the front panel! Tim, That would be the case if I were looking for anything with an 8008. I was thinking more of a SBC or Evaluation board when I wrote that. Allison

28 years

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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Also, I seem to recall that North Star DOS was generated for a specific < size -- I believe it's top-resident. A DOS set up for 16K would work on < or 48K, but not vice versa. No it isn't. The controller fills the e800h to efffh space but NSdos is ORGed for 2000h and up. CPM is top resident and for the NS* that usually means a 58k maximum system unless there are some tricks appled. Allison

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:12:07 -0500 (CDT) Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: >On 7 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote: > >> > The Heathkit people have pretty much set a precedence with unbuilt >kits - >> > if you build one, your name turns to mud. Then they kill you. >> >> Why would the Heathkit people care whether I assemble a Cromemco >Dazzler >> kit? :-) > >The Heathkit People can't see very well, they carry hot soldering >irons, >and they kill first and ask questions later. Certain areas near >Benton >Harbor are *very* dangerous at night. Be carefull out there. > >BTW, after getting my H-8 chassis last week, I found a complete H-8 >today. >Yet another data-point supporting Rax's "bait" theory. Damn. I wish I'd known this a zillion years ago when I could have grabbed an H-11 shell I saw in an L.A. scrapyard. I'd be using it for trolling right about now . . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

28 years

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Partner 128

by oajones＠bright.net

I picked up a cartridge at a flea market. It says PARTNER 128, Cat. No. 7361, (C)1985 TIMEWORKS, INC. What is this thing? --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250 Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ mailto: oajones(a)bright.net

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Tony Duell wrote: < > Agreed. If I ever get an unbuilt kit my first reaction is to build the < > thing. Examples of 1970's packaging are not very interesting to me :- < < I disagree. I have three unassembled Cromemco Dazzler kits. I plan to < assemble one. But if I only had one unassembled kit I think I'd leave i < that way. I personally do find the packaging to be of interest. I'm with tony as the early altairs were not packaged other than needed for shipping. Mine was very early and mostly poly bags of stuff like screws, nuts washers wires and non esd sensitive parts, MOS parts in black foam and sockets in pink foam. The PC card were between sheets of cardboard and it was all in a box with a xeroxed 4th generation manual with atleast two erata sheets for each board. Not much to look at. Some of the later 8800a and the 8800b machine had some nice bent corrigated and all. Allison

28 years

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Rookie PDP help needed again...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The only thing on the board is what's on the handle; "M8186". There is < circular sticker on the underside of one handle that says "mpg jun/81" < it. There are four 40-pin sockets (individual pin sockets on the board) < with the following configuration: < < 1) AMI 303D & AMI 302F on 8048 DEC < 2) AMI 303D & AMI 303D on 8117 DEC < 3) Empty < 4) AMI 304E What's th3 point it's a m8186 kdf-11, aka 11/23? the only thing I can add about it is it appears to have the FIS (floating point extended instruction set) that should run most anything in the way of DEC OSs with the only question being is it limited to 18bit or 22bit able. The latter being less of an issue unless your using more than 256k of ram or certaion backplanes/periperals. < One of my problems is that 4 8" drives are my only storage devices. Any < advice on getting RT-11 or RSX on 8" floppies? I have a bunch of disks, < though I have no way of knowing if they're any good, but no way to writ < to them. RT-11 was nominally supplied on rx01 (8" single density) or rx02 (8" double density) floppies. RSX-11 wants a hard disk for swapping and all. < As far as the Multifunction board, I checked the pins of the console < port with a scope but I can't seem to get anything from it at boot. I < checked the scope on another serial output source and it seems to be < working OK, so I'm assuming that the port on the PDP just isn't giving m 1 which port there are two? 2 is one of the ports set up as a console? 3 is the rom on the MXV setup for the correct boot and is the rom installed? 4 can you hit break and get console ODT prompt and actions? There is a good possibility you have a improperly configured MXV-11 and there is a sea of jumpers on it and it must have the correct proms installed as well. < any console messages immediately on power up? Does it display the POST < procedure, like my Vaxstation? One Sun 3/50 I had with 12 megs of ram to No! The BDV11 if you had it does. < around a minute to display a console message; should there be a long del < like that when booting a PDP-11? If there is a few hundred K maybe 10-20 sec. usually you hear some disk activity before that and then it boots. You vax and Sun knowledge is not helping you as this isn't them. Allison

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:24 PM 10/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance >represented on this list. If I've got any that aren't duplicated, I'd guess them to be: NEC PC-8201 (not the PC-8201A) Datavue 25 Iasis Computer-in-a-Book (I think Hal Layer has one, but I don't think he's on the list) Symbolics 3600 Seequa Chameleon? Sanyo MBC-8000 Zenith ZP-150? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:38 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >How many people have a Chameleon? A friend of mine gave it to me probably 5 >or so years ago when he was cleaning out his garage. Bzzzt... Got three. Also have some scans (from a former employee of Seequa) of one of the brochures. (Gotta remember to get back to him to get more info.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:44 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails >of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the Hmmm... Seems like your list got garbled in transmission... Here's what it should have looked like, I think: Canon FlatCat STM Systems Baby! 1 Teleram Model 4000 and 5000 Atari ST Book and ST Pad Apricot Portable Dynalogic Hyperion Osborne "Encore" and "Vixen" Gavilan GRiD Compass 1100 Toshiba T1100 Unfortunately, I've only got one of those so far. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

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Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Although it's certainly interesting, I doubt my new-found knowledge of the first microprocessor is going to radically change any of my view of the world. F14CADC doesn't mean anything different than 4004. But, what I guess might be significant is that this shows how major an impact the military has played on computers. The ENIAC, F14CADC, DEC Alpha, and other stuff I'm sure can all be attributed to the pentagon. And _that_ is significant because instead of saying that the computer is a triumph of enterpreneurs and daring capitalists, we can _also_ say that it is a triumph of America's great war machine. > >the F14 CADC was the first microcomputer system that made fly by wire >practical. The 4004 was the first commercially viable single chip CPU. >Clear statments that do not conflict but do make a statment that points >to their significance. > >< I'm not denying that Holt produced a CPU, and it may be important in th >< history of military computers. It is irrelevant in the history of the >< personal computer unless there was a personal computer designed that >< included it or a direct descendant. > >Or the technology that made the silicon possible for later commercial >designs. It doesn't have to be the same design. > >< I think it's great that Holt got his story out. Footnotes always add >< depth, but no chapters need to be rewritten. > >The assuption is they are accurate chapters. ;) the depth is needed to >see how the later chapters are significant. > > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Apple IV/Lisa (was: Re: Somebody has a C65 on eBay)

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>>>There's some evidence to suggest that the Lisa is the Apple VI, which raises >>>the question of what happened to IV and V. >> >> I think it would be more accurate to say that Apple considered naming the >> Lisa the Apple IV. "Lisa" was originally just a code name, after all. > >In what way can that be said to be more accurate? "...Lisa is the Apple IV" gives one the impression that the Apple IV was a definite computer, rather than just a name that was considered, but never actually used, for the Lisa. It is quite probable Apple considered using the name "Apple IV" for many computers that shipped after the Apple ///. Said Steve Wozniak, in reference to the Apple ///, "...when we reintroduced it we should have called it the Apple IV." (The Mac Bathroom Reader, pg 34). My point is, "Apple IV" is such a logical name for a computer from Apple that it could have been considered for just about anything. "Apple IV", however, is not the sort of name that was used as a codename at Apple, and therefore most likely would not have been called so in the development stage, though there are many prototypes that could have ended up bearing that name. Of course, I'm just hypothesizing here. :-) >Aside from the marketing model numbers, the only information I've ever found >regarding alternate names that may have been considered was the story about >the name "Applause". According to _The Mac Bathroom Reader_, by Owen Linzmayer, page 80: "Apple figured it needed a more professional-sounding name to appeal to the business market, so it hired an outside consulting firm to recommend a new name. Among others, they suggested Applause, Apple IV, Apple 400, The Coach, Espirit, Teacher, and The World. Quite an effort went into thinking up a different name, but the forthcoming computer had already received so much press coverage under its code name that Apple reverse engineereed the explanation that Lisa stood for 'Local Integrated Software Architecture'" If you're interested in reading about Mac History & prototypes, _The Mac Bathroom Reader" by Owen Linzmayer and _AppleDesign_ by Paul Kunkel are both excellent books. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years

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Aquarius Data Recorders

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I just received an email from a local group which has 250 new in box Aquarius cassette recorders. They are taking bids but I suspect you can't just buy a few but would have to take the whole lot. I have one but could use at least one more and maybe two and it would be nice to have the box and any doc or cables. Is there any interest in this out there? If so, how much would people be willing to pay? Don't forget shipping costs. Let me know. BTW, "local" in this case is Houston, TX. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years

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subscribe

by mew_jac＠swbell.net

28 years

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North Star Horizon Help

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Do you have the manuals? You'll need to check the port definitions that are set via jumpers on the open DIPs near the back of the motherboard. Also, I seem to recall that North Star DOS was generated for a specific RAM size -- I believe it's top-resident. A DOS set up for 16K would work on 32K or 48K, but not vice versa. Kai -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:38 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: North Star Horizon Help Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the disk drive and then nothing. I've plugged some spare terminals into the port marked "Video Terminal Port" and played with baud rates and other comm settings but get nothing on any of my terminals. Also tried straight through and flipped comm cables. Can someone give me some info on these and maybe walk me through getting it set up and running so I can check and see if I've missed something? Oh, I'm trying both N*DOS 5.2 and N* CP/M 2.2. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years

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TI CC-40 was RE: Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have one; does anyone know where I could get a tape drive and some cartridges for it? >The TI CC-40 exists for sure - I've seen several of them. > >Bob > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Bob Withers Do or do not, there is no try. >bwit(a)pobox.com Yoda >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Tuesday, October 06, 1998 7:07 PM, Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@microsoft.com] wrote: >> New computers announced at the 1983 CES: >> >> Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. >> >> - Panasonic JR-200 (I think this may exist) >> - Sanyo PCH20/PHC25 (Z80, 4K/16K, $99/$199) >> - STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) >> - TI 99/2 (Supposedly $100, including 4.2K RAM) >> - TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 >> character LCD display, $249) >> - Unisonic Futura 8300 (Z80, 2K, Sinclair BASIC, $90) >> - Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) >> >> Not Vaporware >> >> - Jupiter Ace >> - Mattel Aquarius >> - Spectravideo SV-318 >> - Timex Sinclair 2000 >> >> >> By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? >> >> Kai >> >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Let's get this into the proper perspective here there is only one "Holy Grail" (unless you read National Inquirer then there are millions for $39.98 plus shipping and handling) Let's see if I can think of some true 'Holy Grails' of computing: 1) The pre Apple 1 prototype Steve Wozniac brought to the Homebrew Computer Club. 2) The original code listing for the BASIC he hand typed to demonstrate that computer. 3) The PDP-1 used to write and play Space War at MIT (with the original game controls) ( I know it's not a micro, but I like the idea. ) 4) 'The original' paper tape of BASIC that was pirated from Bill Gates. Now those would be 'holy grails,' something along the lines of you either don't tell anyone or are very carefull who you tell that you own them. Larry -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years

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C65

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > Subject: Re: Somebody has a C65 on eBay > > On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > :: > > ::Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left and the > > ::bidding is at $1025. > > :: > > > > That's nothing. The last one sold went for $1400. (!) > > Well, how many of these "prototypes" exist? Has anyone authenticated > these things? I would venture to guess a couple hundred to several hundred. Commodore was almost to production before they decided to drop the C65 (I remember reading 1991 as the year they dopped the project). After Commodore went bankrupt some of thier warehouse assetts were liquidated, the Graprvine Group in New York had bought the one with the most c65s and were selling them for I think about $100 a unit. It kinda resembles an Amiga 500 with the floppy drive facing forward (no neumeric keypad). The c65 would best be compared to the Apple IIgs, still has its roots in the 6502 but alot of the graphics and sound are adapted from Amiga technology. It would have done well with the people wanting a more amiga-like system without sacrificing all thier Commodore 8-bit drives and such. There are enough c65s out there that some people have FTP sites of c65 programs. Unfortunately I wasn't one of the people who got a c65 on time. *sigh* -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years

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Corrections to trivia

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Intel supplied the ammunition for a >revolution: cheap computers. The high level of integration was what >enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level of >integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main feature >of the important event. It *certainly* wasn't obvious in the mid-70's, when Intel had picked up its pieces and put together a microprocessor chip (the 8080A) which cost a significant fraction of what a new car cost at the time, that VLSI CPU's were going to be replacing boards full of TTL logic. It was Intel's competitors - notably Motorola and especially MOS Technology - who were responsible for driving microprocessor CPU costs to the hundred-dollar-level and below. That's when times really began a-changin'. Tim.

28 years

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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by bwit＠pobox.com

The TI CC-40 exists for sure - I've seen several of them. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Withers Do or do not, there is no try. bwit(a)pobox.com Yoda ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tuesday, October 06, 1998 7:07 PM, Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@microsoft.com] wrote: > New computers announced at the 1983 CES: > > Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. > > - Panasonic JR-200 (I think this may exist) > - Sanyo PCH20/PHC25 (Z80, 4K/16K, $99/$199) > - STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) > - TI 99/2 (Supposedly $100, including 4.2K RAM) > - TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 > character LCD display, $249) > - Unisonic Futura 8300 (Z80, 2K, Sinclair BASIC, $90) > - Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) > > Not Vaporware > > - Jupiter Ace > - Mattel Aquarius > - Spectravideo SV-318 > - Timex Sinclair 2000 > > > By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? > > Kai > >

28 years

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Aquarius Data Recorders

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/6/98 5:25:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time, oajones(a)bright.net writes: > Hi David, > I would be interested in one cassette recorder. myself included. perhaps two if the price is low.

28 years

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Definitions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think it's helpful to say that a computer is any implement, mechanical or otherwise, to aid in calculation. But this means rocks, fingers, and calculators are all computers. I guess we can say, any machine which is capable of performing something besides addition, mulitplication, subtraction, division without further input from the user. Thus, I guess a computer must either have stuff like that hard-coded (like a slide-rule) or be programmable. So, from this 1-min. train of thought, I say: A computer is any implement capable of processing super-arithmetic functions. BTW, my New Bantam English Dictionary says: A machine capable of performing highly complex mathematical calculations at very high speed. >calculator, reckoner. spec. a person employed to make calculations in an >observatory, in surveying, etc. >1646 Sir T. Browne Pseud. Ep. vi vi 289 The Clenders of these computers. >1704 .... > >I've heard that some newer editions of the OED have added some of the >more modern usages. > > >> an industry that in my lifetime went from the early commercial vacuum >> tube machines to the 64bit CPU chip running some thousands of times >> faster. > >And with software that has grown to compensate for the speed of the >hardware and keep the usefulness of the system where it was. > > >Nevertheless, it WOULD help if we agreed on basic definitions of our >fundamental terminology. > > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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North Star Horizon Help

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the disk drive and then nothing. I've plugged some spare terminals into the port marked "Video Terminal Port" and played with baud rates and other comm settings but get nothing on any of my terminals. Also tried straight through and flipped comm cables. Can someone give me some info on these and maybe walk me through getting it set up and running so I can check and see if I've missed something? Oh, I'm trying both N*DOS 5.2 and N* CP/M 2.2. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

My personal list is much smaller and more mundane.. and more personal, these are machines I actually worked on when I was very young. 1) Compucolor 2 (The Model with floppy disk in the monitor housing) - I let one of these, working w/ software slip through my hands about 4-5 years ago 2) an Exidy Sorcerer - I have a story about loosing a huge folder full of software and papers because I left them at a computer store where I was working on one; when I came back next week, they had folded and were gone. every time one comes up on the net, I'm too late, alas. 3) Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p (?) -Matt Pritchard > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 5:45 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting > > Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy > Grails > of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in > the > Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but > somewhat randomly ordered: > > 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular > Electronics but was lost in shipment > 2. Xerox Alto > 3. Mark 8 > 4. Scelbi 8H > 5. Kenbak-1 > 6. Micral 8008 > 7. Apple I > 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit > 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator > 10. IBM 5100 > > Kai > >

28 years

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a collectors grail

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >> Don't you mean 1801R and 1801S? My early 18xx book doesn't list any < > Both. Mine do, I have an unusual collection of RCA data books with al < < Well, don't leave us in suspense. What's an 18101? Did it come before < or after the 1801R/1801S pair? During... it was the SBC with both chips. Allison

28 years

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Somebody has a C65 on eBay

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 Sam Ismail wrote: >> ::Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left and the >> ::bidding is at $1025. >> >> That's nothing. The last one sold went for $1400. (!) > >Well, how many of these "prototypes" exist? Has anyone authenticated >these things? I'd say quite a few. A couple of years ago a company which sells Amiga & Commodore spares listed C65s in their ad in Amiga Computing magazine. Christmas 96 issue, Paxtron corporation ad: Motherboards (factory new) C65 inc. all chips, latest ROM (PAL only) $70 C65 service manual $20 There is/was also a C65 mailing list. -- Mark

28 years

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Definitions

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

>So would it be possible to come up with a group sanctioned list of >definitions for: > computer (generic) Someone who calculates numbers > digital computer Someone who uses an electronic calculator to calculate numbers > analog computer Someone who uses an abacus to calculate numbers > minicomputer The assistant to the Computer > microcomputer The assistant to the Computer's assistant > processor Someone who collects and delivers the finished calculations > microprocessor ...his assistant > mainframe The big connecting series of tables where all these people work from Sorry guys, but after the day I had at work, I needed to interject a shot of humor Jeff Salzman Tongue-in-cheek

28 years

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Rookie PDP help needed again...

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Thanks for the other responses about the cards, I think I have all the Plessey clone cards identified with the DEC models. However, I am a little confused on my CPU board identification. The board is an M8186, which I have searched on and found to be a KDF11-AA. Or KDF11-AB. Or KDF11-AC. The problem is that I can't find any revision code on the board. To add to the confusion, the original configuration sheet in the case lists the CPU board as a KDF11-HF, of which I haven't been able to find any info at all. Does anyone have any info on this CPU, or can you tell me how to identify which board it actually is? Also, I have looked everywhere for a CPU/OS matrix and haven't found it. Could someone provide me with a URL or just a quick hand-rolled list of what versions of which OS run on which processor? The multifunction board is Plessey #MFV11A; same as DEC MXV11A? I tried to make a console cable using the pinouts on the sunsite PDP-11 page with no success, setting the terminal at 4800baud. Is there something I'm missing here, or can someone suggest how to wire the cable? I just arranged a loner scope (my Tek is basically dead), so I'll start going pin-by-pin until I figure it out, but a "here's how to wire the cable" would sure help a lot. Finally, is there anyone who remembers these clones? Does anyone have _any_ documentation on them at all? Anything really different from a standard DEC PDP-11? The front panel calls it a "Plessey Periperal Systems - Micro II." It has 6 switches on the panel: write protect switches for the two internal 8" floppies, the cpu halt/enable switch, a boot switch, an LTY on/off switch, and the power switch. Any info at all would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I've just stepped into the pages of a wild adventure book... Aaron

28 years

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Corrections to trivia

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

At 01:30 PM 10/6/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >I'm not denying that Holt produced a CPU, and it may be important in the >history of military computers. It is irrelevant in the history of the >personal computer unless there was a personal computer designed that >included it or a direct descendant. So do you judge Xerox's impact on the "personal computer" as their Xerox 820 II or 8/16 machines or by the impact PARC had on user interface metaphors? One of the more subtle things that this sort of blanket statement misses is that places like the Silicon valley are filled with folks going from job to job and bringing their knowledge (some of it classified) with them. Xerox had a tremendous impact on Sun because a lot of ex-Xeroids went to work there (look at a Dandelion box and a Sun 3/160 sometime :-) The impact of Ray's design could be indirectly felt by people who worked with him and went elsewhere. --Chuck

28 years

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RSX-11M and CSR's

by mbg＠world.std.com

I think RSX has something called autoconfig which will tell you how your system is configured (apparently by actually touching the hardware).... RT-11 can only tell you a part of the information, and only if it matches the configuration of the handers... SHOW CONFIG will tell you about the machine itself (processor, memory, fpu, etc) while SHOW DEVICES will list all the devices for which at least the CSR the handler knows about responds... even if the CSR is the wrong one for that handler... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< ::It was Intel's competitors - notably Motorola and especially MOS < ::Technology - who were responsible for driving microprocessor CPU cost < ::to the hundred-dollar-level and below. That's when times really bega < ::a-changin'. Tim is right as is was MOS Tech. that lobbed the biggest shot by offering the 6502 for a mere $20 (single unit price!) at one of the computer shows. < I agree with this. The 6502 architecture and the 6800/68000 series did m Where did zilog fit in... they certainly improved on the 8080, they did it cheaper and had a design that was easier to use too. Forced intel to emphasize the 8085 that didn't extend the instructionset of the 8080 any significant amount. < to advance low-cost computing than anything Intel did. Intel seemed perf < satisfied to stay in the high-end market until relatively recently. I strongly disagree. The following were Intel chips aimed at low to mid end applications/markets. 8048/9 series the 8088 and 80188 parts (8bit bus lower cost to use design with) 8051 series That may not be the total list either. The market that intel couldn't or didn't care to be in was the $1 single chip microprocessor market where TMS1000, COPS, uCOM4 and other 4bitters can and did have a distinct presence. Allison

28 years

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

I received a tip last year that a long time computer business located in Mobile, Alabama was a virtual storehouse of vintage machines. I payed them a visit and could not get past the receptionist. I was told that they occasionally donated the things to be used in educational institutions but that they were absolutely not interested in selling anything. About six months later I learned that the business had closed. Subsequently, I was told by a veteran employee of this firm that when they shut their doors they hauled two Xerox Altos (among many others) to the landfill. I told this person that it was unlikely that they would ever have been in possesion of Xerox Altos but he was adamant that they were indeed Xerox Altos. In hindsight, I now wish I had fibbed to that receptionist and told her that I was connected with the University of Alabama. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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