- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>A while back I believe someone posted an address for a site that provided >the schematic for hooking up an 8" drive to a pc. IF so, please pass it >on to me again. Sorry for losing it. What you want is the "comp.os.cpm FAQ", available from: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/CPM-faq/faq.html Not only does it tell how to hook an 8" floppy drive to a PC-clone and succesfully use the combination, it also contains invaluable information on many other questions frequently asked here. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

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IBM 3274

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

As Jay Jaeger pointed out to me, this thing is a terminal controller. I was thinking it was a small server. Makes sense given the label on the disk that came with it. I should have guessed from the number as well. Is this of use to anyone on the list? I'm in Toronto. I'm not going to store it as its out of my league for collectables. If nobody wants it I'll grab the 8" drive out of it and hook it up to my PC. Of course as soon as I do that the mainframe will show up. Probably sitting in the garbage of the man around the corner who works for IBM. Let me know soon. Colan

27 years, 5 months

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Adaptec HD controller access? (picture up)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

The picture's up. It's fairly big, but it was the best I could do with a desktop scanner, and let the lables and everything still be readable. If anyone has any info on this card, let me know. BTW: The connectors for the HD have been cut off, because my scanner is just a bit too small to scan a full-length card. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * ************************************************ --------- > > Hi! I have an old Adaptec Hd controller that I'm trying to use in an IBM > PC (5150). Here's what it says on it: > > adaptec, inc. > ASSY401406-00 > REV K > > I'm trying to find out how to get into the controller's BIOS so that I can > set up the HD (using DEBUG). There's two jumper blocks, and one single > jumper. I'm going to post a picture at: > > <http://members.tripod.com/general_1/adaptec.jpg> > > I'll try to get it posted in about 20 minutes. > > ThAnX, > > -Jason > > *********************************************** > * Jason Willgruber * > * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * > * * > * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * > * ICQ#-1730318 * > * /0\/0\ * > * > Long Live the 5170! * > * \___/ * > ************************************************

27 years, 5 months

2
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AMDOS?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

What did Advanced Micro Devices make in the late 70s (?) that ran AMDOS/29? I got several 8" disks a couple weeks ago in AMD disk sleeves with the following hand-written labels: System 29 AMDOS/29 V1.2 S/N 18-0 CPM BASIC-E AMDOS-29 BASIC-E COMPILE RUN PROMGEN 1 Some of these are obvious. I'm hoping it'll ring a bell for someone who can tell me what they belong to. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98]

27 years, 5 months

4
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VIRUS! DANGER!

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

DAMN, DAMN, DAMN!! Sorry. Not meant for broadcast. I was trying to get this to Jason W. *&%$$#$#&* REPLY button!!! On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:32:17 -0500 Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> writes: >> This is urgent. Remember that ZIP file I sent you with the >SpeedStor?! >> >> Destroy it, NOW!! >> >> I don't know how, but it has been infected with the Jerusalem >virus. >> Damn! I'm sorry, guy. I'm really, really sorry. >> > >Hey I remember that Virus from the early 90's.. Its easy to get rid >of >without >distroying the program. Just run Mcafees Clean on it.. It will remove >it.. >Another popular virus was the "Stoned Virus".. In 1990 I used to get 2 >or 3 >computer repairs at my shop per week of units infected with that >one... >I felt like a Doctor back in those days! HeHe!!!! > >Phil.... > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 5 months

1
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Redux of 6502==6800

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Just as a follow-up... I found some datasheets from Rockwell dated 1987 that day that *all* of the 65xx processor devices (i.e., the 6502-6507 abd 6512-6515) were "bus compatible with M6800". Before I change the "story" on my web site, I'd like to have a consensus of: 1. the history of the 6502 processor 2. if there was a 6500 and 6501 Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

2
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Classic != IBM AT

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Speaking of which, I read in a PC repair book that the 486SX is a 486DX with certain lines cut to disable the math coprocessor. The thing that went into the coprocessor socket was a rebranded 486DX that took over all functions of the SX when installed. Anyone know about this? >>Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote: > >>> No thanks to whoever said the 8088 and 8086 were the same thing. If that's >>> the case, the Pentium and the 80386 are the same thing :-) > >>In general terms, without getting into a lot of super-geek discussion, the >8086 >>and 8088 are in the same category in that they are both predominantly an XT >>class processor, despite the 8 and 16 bit differences.... > >Yes, to say that the 8088 and 8086 were the same is incorrect, but they >_basically_ had the same core and everything... it was just the data bus >was 8 bit on the 8088 and 16-bit on the 8086. They were fully compatible >program-wise, just that the 8086 was faster as it could push 2x data over >the 8088. > >Comparing the 80386 and the Pentium wouldn't be fair, tho. Comparing the >80386SX (with the 16-bit data bus) and the 80386DX (with the 32-bit data >bus) would be a lot better comparison... as again, the chips were fully >compatible, but the DX's were faster due to the larger data bus. > >Just the way I seem to remember it... > >Roger "Merch" Merchberger ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

5
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Short Intro

by amc358＠interserv.com

> On Friday, November 06, 1998 7:31 PM, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Don't recall exactly, but it was longer than that. A couple of years > as "Kilobaud", then as "Kilobaud Microcomputing" as the font for the > first word shrank and the font for the second word grew, then a couple > of years as just "Microcomputing". Of course, there were more pages > published in the few years of the spin-off "80-Micro" than there were > in the whole run of Kilobaud under any name. Which itself spun-off > "Hot CoCo". January 77 to November 84. I stumbled into someone who wanted to get rid of his old computers magazines. He gave me (for free!) every issue of Kiloboad and the first four years or so of Byte, plus a bunch of others. What a find. Serendipity at it's best. Al McCann

27 years, 5 months

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ePay revisited once more

by apulo＠joyce.eng.yale.edu

Russ, The problem you're encountering isn't an error in math, it's an error in understanding. You're misunderstanding is common becayse Ebay words thier rules rather crappily. You are charged 5% of all sales up to $25 PLUS an additional 2.5% for $25 to $1000. So using the printer that sold for $41, you get charged 5% for the first $25 (1.25) then 2.5% for the additional $16 (.40) for a total of $1.65. I know, it's a weird system :) Tony

27 years, 5 months

2
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SCSI questions

by manney＠lrbcg.com

I have a ZEOS 486 board with a SCSI controller. I don't do SCSI much, so I have some questions... A customer connected my SCSI drive backwards to the (motherboard) controller. He reported being unable to get the BIOS to recognize the drive. 1) Is the SCSI drive (a 170 MB Toshiba) toast? Can it be fixed? 2) Is the motherboard SCSI controller toast? 3) There's no separate SCSI setting under "drive type". Should I use "no drive", or set the parameters to something? Thanks manney

27 years, 5 months

3
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6501 and 6500/1 (was Re: Revamped Web site up)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

OK, I looked at the data sheet: "The 6500/1 is a complete, high-performance 8-bit NMOS microcomputer on a single chip, ans it totally upward/downward software compatible with all members of the 6500 family." "The 6500/1 consists of a 6502 CPU, an internal clock oscillator, 2048 bytes of Read Only Memory (ROM), 64 bytes of Random Access Memory (RAM) and flexible interface circuitry. The interface circuitry includes a 16-bit programmable counter/latch with four operating modes, 32 bidirectional input/output lines (including two edge-sensitive lines), five interrupts and a counter I/O line." "Mask Programmable Options: Internal pull-up resistors on ports A, B, C, D. Selectable for 8-bit port groups only, not for individual port lines. Internal pull-up resistor on the CNTR line." Kind of sounds like a 6502 and a 6522 rolled together with a small ROM and some RAM. Other interesting tidbits: no mention of 6800 compatibility; separate power pin for the internal RAM; five interrupts include reset, NMI, two edge-sensitive, counter overflow. None of the data sheets that I have (not even the "family" ones) mention a 6501. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

2
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Short Intro

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Just curious if anyone remembers a magazine called "Kilobaud" - Seems < like it had a short life. Yes I remember it, mostly hardware bent and good too. Lasted at least four years. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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OT: Very (sorry)... Hey! Digital camera going for $75

by manney＠lrbcg.com

www.fastmodems.com is selling Mitsubishi DJ-1000's for $75.

27 years, 5 months

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WSJ Article posted (psst. don't tell Dow Jones & Co.)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

As promised: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/pdf/wsj1030.pdf Don't try the link immediately...I'm uploading stuff later tonight. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

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Revamped Web site up

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:28:21 +1, "Hans Franke" <franke(a)sbs.de> wrote: >>The 6500/x wasn't a clone at all - maybe a simplified design >>using the same philosophy about a CPU, but the 6500/1 >>(or 6501) did use the 6800 Bus _and_ was pin compatible, This is true. I looked in some other data that I have (I think in the Rockwell R6500 Hardware Book, I think), where it explicitly says that. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

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MOS 6530's (Was: KIM-1 (Was: Apple I clone (was Apple I Computer

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

>> There was one version of one of the CBM disk drives (I think it was the >> 8252LP) where a 6530 was replaced by a daughtboard containing (I think) >> an 6532 + a ROM + TTL glue. I don't know how universal that solution is, >> but I guess something could be worked out. > >Jep, thats exactly the soulution I was suggesting. > Just grab one of these people that want to build a 64 bit Z80 computer or a IMSAI clone. Builting a 6530 daugther board should be a piece of cake for them. And as a hint, have them compare the schematics of the KIM with the schematics of the VIM or the SYM. They use 6532s. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 5 months

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Classics made the WSJ Again

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:40:18 EST, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >>everyone start scouring the thrift stores and radio rallies and buy up >>everything now! prices for old worthless computers shirley will go up now! ...and stop calling me Shirley! Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

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ePay revisited once more

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

For those of you that are tired of hearing about the online auctions I exxpress my apologies. For those of you that use eBay to sell I need to express a little concern about their fee system so that you can watch your accounts. Seems I've had three items in the $25 to $1000 range sell and should have seen a 2.5% fee added as a "final value fee". Well an example is an item that sold for $242.50 at close. The fee listed is $6.69 rather than the 6.06 that 4 of my calculators ran up. I'm not an accountant but I know how to do percentages. The fee of 5% for items under $25 come up fine. I had two printers sell today and they are also wrong. One sold for $41.00 and has a fee of $1.65 rather than the 2.5% fee of $1.03 and the other sold at $31.27 with fee listed as $1.41 instead of the 2,5% fee of 78 cents. I've written eBay support but don't expect an answer until Monday. My whole point of this is to go back and check the fees on your items! You might very well be getting ripped without knowing it. Sure I'm only screwed on a buck or two but eBay is making out when you consider the volume sold every day. If 1000 items closed daily and each seller was overcharged 25 cents they'd have $250 more than they were supposed to. You get my point I hope and will now have the foreskin, er, foresight to check the account detail and their math. Thanks for the time in listening to my babble.

27 years, 5 months

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NCR server

by CharlesII＠nwonline.net

Does anyone know anything about a NCR model 0202 server?

27 years, 5 months

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PDP-11/23+ CPU needed...

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981106/52af9358/at…

27 years, 5 months

2
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Good Finds ?

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

Based on my recent finds I think a refination of Rax's theory of computer affinity synchronicity is in order. I am a PS2 fan and have a couple of 80s, a 60 and a 57(SCSI I love it) as well as a couple of PS1s in my collection. The recent thread on ATs and PS2s and models 25 and 30 caught me but I had no desire to expand my PS2 representation as I have enough weird 286's . While I have never used a model 25 or 30 I mistakenly joined the discussion on these models. I had decided this month that I was going to avoid going to the big central Goodwill branch since I always come away with something I can't resist and my 1 bedroom apt. is reduced to crawl space. By accident(?) however I dropped into the neighborhood branch and ( of course) there was a model 30. For $10 I can't resist. My modification to Rax's theory is that not only will the parts you acquire represent and demand that the affiliated other parts be reunited but that even thinking about them will require a response. Mini or micro Rax's law holds true.. I also found a 9 vol. set of Open Systems SCO UNIX v.4.2 manuals. Uh-oh...... In addition a nice hi-res monitor with the TTL-Digital switches. That seems safe enough. Has anyone thought of setting up a computer version of A.A. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 5 months

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Spring Cleaning - UPDATE 2

by Anthony.Dellett＠Staples.com

I have removed more stuff that is sold or is pending sale. All items listed herein are now price negotiable :) $10 plus shipping, the RAM cards alone are worth $10 :) Atari 800 (not working, parts?) $30 Atari 1050 Disk Drive (SIO cable included) $30 Atari 1050 Disk Drive (SIO cable included) $30 Commodore 64 (complete in box) $30 Commodore 1541 Disk Drive (in box, works, grey model) $10 Commodore 1541 Disk Drive (in box, dont work, white model) $25 Commodore 1541 II Disk Drive (complete in box) $35 Commodore 128 (complete in box) *** Due to complete underwhelming response, the IMSAI has been posted on ebay *** http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=40066378 $40 Kaypro II (incl. boot disk, this has a third party RTC upgrade in it, it needs new batteries) $40 Kaypro IV (incl. boot disk) $200 NorthStar Advantage (Works perfectly, comes with Graphic CP/M 2.2) $30 TI-99/4A Computer (beige model, in box) $60 TRS-80 Model III (with some software) $150 8" SS/SD Dual Drive Subsystem (ICOM, it's a really nice subsystem) $50 "Fat" Macintosh (Mac 512K, works great, in original box with original packing) $20 CoCo 2 (Works peachy) Buyers pay shipping charges FOB Lawrence, Massachusetts. I'm willing to pay parts of shipping on larger items. Whatever isn't spoken for here by next monday (11/9) will be posted on Ebay. Thanks Tony

27 years, 5 months

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Magazines available

by manney＠lrbcg.com

1988-9 Home Office Computing, plus a couple of PC World. Anyone want? Also, some books -- Small computers for the small businessman (dilithium press... remember them?) Bits, Bytes and Buzzwords (1983) The Tenderfoot's Guide to Word Processing (Featuring Executive Assistant) Sidekick book (for Commodore) manney

27 years, 5 months

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DEC ribbons, $500 each (just kidding)

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Cleaning out my ribbon drawer... (1) new in package ribbon marked REORDER No. LA50R-06 (1) used ribbon, same size (2) carbon ribbons, new, which I think were for a DEC daisy wheel printer (1) used ribbon, ditto Free to a good home, altho' a few bucks for my starving children would be appreciated. U pay shipping. Also, now that I'm thinking of it, I have a l-o-o-o-o-ng (75 or 100 ft) 36 pin cable off a linewriter. Anyone want it enough to pay shipping? manney

27 years, 5 months

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PR_Princeton_92.html

by mlin＠mlin.lib.ma.us

SOCIETY FOR SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION PRESS RELEASE Embargoed until December 15, 1992 CONTACT: Marsha Sims, Executive Editor, Journal of Scientific Exploration Princeton University Mind-Matter Experiments Reported Stanford, CA, December 15, 1992 --- An article published today in the Stanford-based Journal of Scientific Exploration (Vol. 6, No. 4), published by the Society for Scientific Exploration, reports on experiments carried out at Princeton University to investigate the possibility that the human mind can influence random number devices in a way that can be measured in a laboratory. Prof. Robert Jahn, an engineer and former dean in the Princeton School of Engineering, and Brenda Dunne, also of Princeton, released a detailed report based on nearly half a million experimental trials carried out by Jahn, Dunne, and coworkers at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) Laboratory. The tests demonstrate an extremely minute, but statistically measureable, ability of the mind to skew the output of electronic number generators and other devices. As Brenda Dunne puts it, "Gamblers throughout history have believed that they could affect the outcome of a random process like rolling dice or shuffling cards. The phenomenon we're measuring is a lot more subtle, but it's the same idea and we've measured it in the laboratory." Volunteer experimenters taking part in the PEAR experiments sit in a relaxed environment and concentrate their attention on an electronic device designed to generate purely random sequences of numbers, in effect an electronic roll of the dice. The task of the volunteers is to "coax" the machine into yielding larger than average or smaller than average numbers. The volunteers declare their intent ahead of time, high or low, and then begin the experiment. And to rule out possible disturbances in the equipment the experimenters sometimes make a null intent, that is, state in advance that they will "coax" the machine to do exactly what a random machine should, going above and below a mean an approximately equal number of times, yielding a so-called baseline.for comparison. The key to the success of the Princeton group lies in the computerization of the experiment. By using fast electronic devices automatically recording the results directly into a computer, thousands of microchip dice rolls can be recorded in an hour or two. As this is going on, the computer displays the up or down trends to the experimenter as a form of feedback. This gives the experimenter a way to concentrate on influencing the machine. The deviations achieved in any given run are practically immeasurable but the results of half a million test runs show an unmistakable signature of an effect the researchers attribute to human consciousness. Detailed mathematical analysis suggests that a minute perturbation of the "elementary binary probability" is involved, as if the mind were ever so slightly nudging the electronic dice in the desired direction. An even more puzzling result of the experiments is that the effect can be produced even if the experimenter is several thousand miles away from the random device, and perhaps even over significant intervals of time. In the most extreme case an experimenter in Europe on Monday might concentrate on producing the effect, but the actual measurements on the device are, by prior agreement, not carried out until Friday in Princeton. Speculating on the phenomenon Jahn states, "All forces known to physics, like gravity for example, diminish with distance. And no forces in physics operate freely across time like this. It's as if consciousness is somehow able to direct its influence directly across space and time, and understanding that certainly poses a challenge for science." And Dunne adds: "This is similar to what mystics have claimed through the ages, but now we have scientific evidence." Are there any practical results from such miniscule influences?.. Maybe. With computers and microchips controlling the operation of everything from automobile engines to the newest passenger jets, the intrusion of consciousness at microscopic levels, whether deliberate or unintentional could have very real consequences. As Jahn puts it: "It's something science cannot afford to simply ignore any longer. And besides, it's such an exciting challenge to our whole way of thinking about the physical world." ###

27 years, 5 months

3
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Classics made the WSJ Again

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

uh oh... everyone start scouring the thrift stores and radio rallies and buy up everything now! prices for old worthless computers shirley will go up now! david In a message dated 11/5/98 7:26:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rcini(a)email.msn.com writes: > > Last Friday's Wall Street Journal (NY Edition) had a front-page article > about collecting classic computers. Our very own Kip Crosby, Jim Willing, > and the VCF were mentioned.

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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VIRUS! DANGER!

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Jason: This is urgent. Remember that ZIP file I sent you with the SpeedStor?! Destroy it, NOW!! I don't know how, but it has been infected with the Jerusalem virus. Damn! I'm sorry, guy. I'm really, really sorry. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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PR_Princeton_92.html

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Princeton University Mind-Matter Experiments Reported > Did we just get spammed? If so, that's the most off-the-wall spam I've > seen yet. We did - I've seen this quote flying around since years. > I'm adding it to my collection of Classic Spam. Is it public ? Dougs VSPAMM (Virtual SPAM Muesum :) ? Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

1
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A couple of new finds and Next question

by paulk＠microsoft.com

> does > anyone no how to create a boot diskette for the Next ? > See http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/2667.htmld/2667.html NeXTanswers is your friend! > Thanks. John > Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 6 months

2
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Classic != IBM AT

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Yes, to say that the 8088 and 8086 were the same is incorrect, but they >> _basically_ had the same core and everything... it was just the data bus >> was 8 bit on the 8088 and 16-bit on the 8086. They were fully compatible >> program-wise, just that the 8086 was faster as it could push 2x data over >> the 8088. Not only this, the 8088 BIU was kind of krippled and issued 16 Bit Memory access also when a 8 Bit access would be sufficeient. This costs even more bandwide. > Do I not recall correctly that the 8088 was in fact half of a two chip > set and that the 8086 was 'self contained', and that IBM elected to not use > the other half. No, both are 'self contained' CPUs. But there are two other processors within the family the 8087 FPU and 8089 IOP. The complete design looks a lot like a real computer :) Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

1
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PR_Princeton_92.html

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Gives me an idea: Let's all think very hard about removing morrons from the internet. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/ >> On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, MLIN Public Account wrote: >> >> > Princeton University Mind-Matter Experiments Reported

27 years, 6 months

2
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Classic != IBM AT

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Lawrence Walker wrote: > >> Both the model 25 and 30 came out in 8086 and 286 versions. The 25 had 2 >> 286 models. 25-286 and 25LS. The models 50 and 60 were also 286s' > > The models up to (but not including) the 50 series were ISA and after that were > microchannel. The 25 came out originally as an XT class machine with an 8086 > processor ( see http://www.can.ibm.com/helpware/8525.html ) and the 286 version of > it was only one version that I'm aware of as seen at > http://www.can.ibm.com/helpware/8525286.html > > The LS may be an aftermarket version, much like putting a Reply motherboard into > one. > > All the info on the vintage IBM machines can be found starting with the index page > at IBM Canada (eh!) at http://www.can.ibm.com/helpware/vintage.html Thanks for the reference. I have bookmarked it. Thanks also to everyone who has pointed out the model 25 and the 286 versions. Both well after my time - when I left IBM there were just the 30, 50, 60 and 80. I think I had heard of the 25 though - perhaps that will teach me not to open my mouth quite so wide. No thanks to whoever said the 8088 and 8086 were the same thing. If that's the case, the Pentium and the 80386 are the same thing :-) Philip.

27 years, 6 months

8
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Anyone have a PC/XT MFM controller? (was:Adaptec HD controller access?)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

O.K. Now that I found out a bit about the controller, I've found that I have a slight problem: 1.) The Adaptec 2070 is an RLL controller 2.) The Seagate ST-506 5MB HDD is an MFM HD. 3.) Even if the card was MFM, I really don't feel like doing anything in hex. Now for the questions: 1.) Does anyone have a spare PC or XT MFM HD controller laying around? If you do, what would you want for it (please send me a personal email). I do agreee that the WD controllers are more direct, but any controller that'll work should be fine. 2.) How do I get an external floppy to work with the XT? I have a cable and P/S salvaged from a 4869 (think that's the model #) IBM drive (case and drive are long gone) connected to a full-height IBM drive. I have the 4869 cable connected to the port on the floppy controller. Thing is, it dosen't work. Do I have to change a jumper on the controller board, or do I need to change the DIP settings on the M/B (If I need to change DIP's, just tell me, and I can check the setting list on IBM's site). 3.) Anyone have an external TRS-80 disk box (with P/S)? It dosen't necessarily need to have a drive in it, because I want to use it to house the IBM drive in (I was thinking of using a Disk II box, since it would probably match better, but they don't have a P/S). ThAnX, > > Ding ding ding!!! > > Hold on! > > I got the info off the HD bible and I found what we need to know: > > Most WD, SMS/OMTI use C800:5 > few did use C800:6 > > But the Adaptec 8 bit card use weirdest way to do LLF process: > > C800:CCC > > and you have to input the needed info in hex. > > Honestly, I prefer WD 1:2 or 1:3 controllers, the good ones are > XT-GEN kind. > > Jason D. > > PS: How did I know something is still wrong because I was been there > before. Oh, those 8 bit adaptec MFM cards have highest failure rate! > email: jpero(a)cgocable.net > Pero, Jason D.

27 years, 6 months

1
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DEC troubleshooting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Yes, they did, with red tags on them supposedly describing the fault < to help someone diagnose and fix the boards. But many of them simply < ended up in salvage, which many of us used to visit each week to < find stuff for our home systems. At that time (more than a decade salvage was for "excess" and junked. Boards there were either plentiful and therefor costly to store the excess or they were out of rev. Also boards or FRUs that were not in reve and not upgradeable were salvaged. Sometimes there were boards that went through the depot repair cycle twice and were considered unreliable. < I miss salvage... As the cost of materials and the economics of depot repair became attractive so there was less and less material going to salvage. Also the liability issue. What killed it was a few employies abusing the system. I built a lot of boards up for my early 11s and a few others from material gotten from salvage. The boards I got were easily fixed or like the M8044s by filling the unpopulated rows I upped them from 16kw to 32kw. They were in salvage because no one wanted 16kw cards anymore. That allowed me to have 256kb of ram in my first 11/23. The cost to deliver service has always been a problem and during the 80s is was something to be managed as margins could be tight. People wanted uptime, low cost and systems were smaller so they expected their bills to shrink accordingly. Designing a product for seviceability and service product that was manageable was quite challenging. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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DEC troubleshooting

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:48 PM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Sure. Tell the customer he/she will be down an extra hour while >> you extend the board to find the fault, desolder the chip >> and replace the 10 cent bus driver. Nope. Swapping was reality in the field >> when I was there. > >I must agree here. Doing component level debugging just makes no sense in >the field. > It may not make sense time wise but it does when you consider the cost of sparing circuit boards instead of component parts. I worked in field service for Burroughs Corp and a private company that supported TI and IBM mainframes and we ALWAYS did component level repair. We didn't even have spare boards. >> Board level (early 80's DEC) was (unfortunately) >> replaced with shotgunning and option swap out by many in the late 80's. > >Did the boards not go back to DEC for rework? I later worked as an electronics technician for a company that had been sending industrial controller boards back for repair. The flat rate cost was $800 per board. I was hired to repair the boards and they saved the cost of my yearly salarly in the first month. Joe > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > >

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Do I not recall correctly that the 8088 was in fact half of a two chip < set and that the 8086 was 'self contained', and that IBM elected to not < the other half. < - don Huh? The 8088 is for all intents and purposes the same part as the 8086. the prformance hit for the 8bit vs 16 bit data bus averages around 20%. The reason the is the prefetch que is 6 bytes on the 86 and 4bytes on the 88 as a measure to "tune" it. The instruction sets are identical and the supporting chips are exactly the same (86 will need more bus buffers). Oh, and the FPU the 8087 worked with either part and sized it's bus accordingly. I've done designs using both and they can almost be drop in for each other (same for the 80188/186). Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Macintosh System (fwd)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Here's a guy who wants to sell his Macintosh 128K (slightly upgraded). Please reply to the seller only. Reply-to: walk(a)me.unlv.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:14:44 -0700 From: Raymond Kozak <walk(a)me.unlv.edu> To: dastar(a)verio.com Subject: Macintosh System My mac is the original 128k series with a 512 upgrade. Is there any uinterest in these old systems? Thanks RCK --- Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98]

27 years, 6 months

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DEC troubleshooting

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I must agree here. Doing component level debugging just makes no sense in >the field. Even less so nowadays -- people can't stand to have their systems down for a minute let alone 15 or so... >Did the boards not go back to DEC for rework? Yes, they did, with red tags on them supposedly describing the fault to help someone diagnose and fix the boards. But many of them simply ended up in salvage, which many of us used to visit each week to find stuff for our home systems. At that time (more than a decade ago), scrap and salvage at digital was a way for employees to get hardware, usually at the board or FRU level... I remember finding lots of boards which basically said that they were dead, and I found that they had been misconfigured (some options had 1=off and 0=on for switch settings). When I configured them correctly, they worked just fine. Then there was the core memory option for my 11/10... it simply said 'bad' on the red tag... I examined the board and found a transistor hanging on by only one lead... I found a replacement, soldered it in and the board worked fine... I miss salvage... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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PR_Princeton_92.html

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Seems like it. It's even out of date! ---------- > From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: PR_Princeton_92.html > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:34 PM > > On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, MLIN Public Account wrote: > > > Princeton University Mind-Matter Experiments Reported > > Did we just get spammed? If so, that's the most off-the-wall spam I've > seen yet. I'm adding it to my collection of Classic Spam. > > -- Doug >

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by roblwill＠usaor.net

If that would be the case, would it be possible to replace an 8088 with an 8086 to make it faster, or would it not work, because of a possible 8-bit instead of 16-bit bus on the M/B? -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Classic != IBM AT > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:38 PM > > Yes, to say that the 8088 and 8086 were the same is incorrect, but they > _basically_ had the same core and everything... it was just the data bus > was 8 bit on the 8088 and 16-bit on the 8086. They were fully compatible > program-wise, just that the 8086 was faster as it could push 2x data over > the 8088. > > Comparing the 80386 and the Pentium wouldn't be fair, tho. Comparing the > 80386SX (with the 16-bit data bus) and the 80386DX (with the 32-bit data > bus) would be a lot better comparison... as again, the chips were fully > compatible, but the DX's were faster due to the larger data bus. > > Just the way I seem to remember it... > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger

27 years, 6 months

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Adaptec HD controller access?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I'll try the other addresses. When I tried <G=C800:5>, the light on the HD (Seagate ST-506 5 MB) came on for about 10 seconds, the screen went blank, and the computer rebooted. I'll see if the other addresses will work. ThAnX, -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * ************************************************ > > I tried to access the site, but it was too slow, and I was too impatient > :). Accessing the BIOS through debug is easy once you know the proper > address. The syntax from debug is "g=c800:5" with the "c800:5" being the > address in the BIOS to start the formatting routine. Other addresses > include c800:6, cc00:5, and cc00:6. On the Western Digital Super Bios, you > can set the drive parameters from the prompts and I don't know if the > Adaptec will allow this or not. If you have jumper blocks, the drive > parameters are most likely set with jumpers. > > I have found the easiest way to verify the address is to use the unassemble > command as there will always be a jmp instruction at the entry point in the > bios, i.e. uc800:5 and if there is no jmp instruction on the first line, try > another address. Good luck.

27 years, 6 months

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Adaptec HD controller access?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Adaptec is of no help that I could find. They only have stuff on the new boards. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Adaptec HD controller access? > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:34 PM > > On the old adaptec controllers (at least the old 1542b I have) you have to > enter a sequence in debug to kick off the on-board bios. I'd look at > adaptec's website for info on your board, they might even have the manuals > PDFd. > -- > Jim Strickland > jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 6 months

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DEC troubleshooting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Sure. Tell the customer he/she will be down an extra hour while < you extend the board to find the fault, desolder the chip < and replace the 10 cent bus driver. Nope. Swapping was reality in the < when I was there. Board level (early 80's DEC) was (unfortunately) < replaced with shotgunning and option swap out by many in the late 80's. Economics... less down time and the failed card could be returned for repair and retest. Cards repaired under controlled conditions had better reliability. Option swap really used to fry me. < Sure. Had one of those guys at Naval Air Propultion in Trenton, NJ. < Customer: "The te16 won't go on line. U134 should go low, but it's floa < Can you bring us a driver chip." < < Field Service: "We don't have it in stock, but I'll get one in the next < three weeks if I P1 it... Or I could come down and change the LAW boar < on the drive (LAW -- TE16 Logic and Write board) in about 15 minutes." Reality was that it cost as much to handle the chip as the whole board! < Absolutely. That's a very common failure along with the diode and cap < on the VT100 video cards that's underrated. Severely underrated. A 50V cap running at 70! The diode was a victim. A remember a box of returned cards the size of a large chest refrigerator at WJO01 in '84. I happen to look at it and after the third or forth card surmized the failure... annoyed a few people that I could see that without a full field study. Oh, the cause was a transmission error, the person that drew up the BOM copied the wrong values. It would go years that way before someone becuse of the problem would pull the original DD, CS, KPL and see they didn't match. Classic case of why CADD was a desireable thing. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Adaptec HD controller access?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I have an old Adaptec Hd controller that I'm trying to use in an IBM PC (5150). Here's what it says on it: adaptec, inc. ASSY401406-00 REV K I'm trying to find out how to get into the controller's BIOS so that I can set up the HD (using DEBUG). There's two jumper blocks, and one single jumper. I'm going to post a picture at: <http://members.tripod.com/general_1/adaptec.jpg> I'll try to get it posted in about 20 minutes. ThAnX, -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************

27 years, 6 months

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Xpost: S/36 software needed

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

If anyone has what this person needs, please email him at the email address below: ------------- Robert Stachowiak <admin(a)uapd.uakron.edu> Akron, OH USA - Wednesday, November 04, 1998 at 18:12:02 If anyone might have the PC support PC install disk for an IBM System 36, I can't find the one that we should have. Should have link36.bat startrtr endrtr files on it. I have the book, I have the install files for the 36 but not for the pc's. Have to convert 5 or 6 years of data! Thanks for any help!

27 years, 6 months

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KIM envy

by dogas＠leading.net

Are you asserting that AIM65 = KIM-1 ??? - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> >You mean you don't remember my encased AIM65 that was on exhibit at the >VCF? There's a picture of it up on Jim Willing's web site.

27 years, 6 months

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Apple campains (was:Altair Image Wanted)

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Oh yeah. I might scan it for people who missed it. Anyone interested? > Sledgehammers being tossed at BillG? Sure! Now does the hammerthrower > represent Sun, Netscape, Apple, or end-users? > ObCC: Apple used to be known for cool ads, but those Think Good or > whatever ads really grated on me. More sledgehammers, I say! Same with me (but I laught a lot about the PII vs. PPC spot :). Especialy this Think Different is a horror thing. And they eventualy couldn't hold up their own arrogat idea of presenting wordlewide unifying 'good' people, so, where is the idea ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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Adaptec HD controller access?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I'm pretty sure that controller is set by jumpers. And my books are at the whse! Pax

27 years, 6 months

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DEC troubleshooting

by pechter＠shell.monmouth.com

> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:28:22 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Subject: Re: PDP11 training troubleshooting > Message-ID: <m0zao01-000IyTC@p850ug1> > Content-Type: text > > > > Hmmm.. This actually wouldn't have worked for me, if I'd been allowed to > > > do what I liked to the machine. > > > > Well, the class wasn't 8-(... > > You know, I've made some nasty comments about Field Service in the past > (what DEC enthusiast hasn't...), but now I realise it wasn't all their > fault. I mean, not being able to pull boards is terrible... Yeah, but it taught you to think microcode, block diagram and real troubleshooting instead of pul and swap. I was a board swapper in the Field, but it made me an informed and logical board swapper. > > God gave us extender boards (and DEC made extender boards) so you could > run a CPU module outside the case to look at internal signals. It's a > standard way of figuring it all out. Trying to debug an 11/45 only being > able to look at backplane signals is horrible... > Sure. Tell the customer he/she will be down an extra hour while you extend the board to find the fault, desolder the chip and replace the 10 cent bus driver. Nope. Swapping was reality in the field when I was there. Board level (early 80's DEC) was (unfortunately) replaced with shotgunning and option swap out by many in the late 80's. > Were you give (or allowed) a KM11 maintenance card? For those who've not > seen one, it's a board (acutally 2 boards...) that you stick in special > slot in some DEC machines. It's got 28 lights and 4 switches on it. In > the 11/45 it'll let you single-step the microcode (or even the clock > sequencer), display flag signals, etc. You can get the uPC on the panel, > of course. They were used in the 11/70 class, the RK05 maint class and a couple of others. The 11 new hire used the 11/34's built in programmer panel for much the same stuff. > > >> However, in the real world I'm more likely to start with a 'lucky dip'. > > >> Unplug all connectors/boards, clean contacts, look for bent pins. Check > > >> all fuses. Power up and check the power rails with a voltmeter. > > > > > True... if you know someone's been playing inside. But in Field Service > > I'd check edge connector contacts _anyway_. Particularly if the fault > seems to be totally crazy. > > > with machines under maintenance most folks keep their hands out of > > them. (except for printers and terminals) This means something broke. > > Hmmm... OK, pity the poor field servoid who used to deal with the VAXen > at one of the Universities I was at. He knew that there were DEC hackers > there - people who read printsets for fun. The system manager was one > such, and I joined in the fun. > > Typically, we'd call out field service with a call of the form 'Oh, it's > gone again, and this time bring DEC part # <whatever>'. We'd already had > the thing apart you see, and knew what we were doing. DEC didn't seem to > mind too much - they'd bring the bit, do a few tests to confirm, and > install it. Sure. Had one of those guys at Naval Air Propultion in Trenton, NJ. Customer: "The te16 won't go on line. U134 should go low, but it's floating. Can you bring us a driver chip." Field Service: "We don't have it in stock, but I'll get one in the next three weeks if I P1 it... Or I could come down and change the LAW board on the drive (LAW -- TE16 Logic and Write board) in about 15 minutes." And then there was the site that complained about failing RK07 Dual port diags on 11/70's when the drives ran flawlessly unde RSX11 and IAS. The problem was race conditions in the diag. The diag was no longer being updated. The only fix that got the field service folk off the site was noop'ing the error calls on the tests with the race condition. > > > > Check power and work from there. > > Oh, indeed. And ACLO/DCLO. Those cause more problems that you'd believe. > Especially on H742 power supplies where C3 (I think) on the power control > board goes open. ACLO and DCLO then get mains frequency ripple on them, > and the rest is obvious. > > -tony Absolutely. That's a very common failure along with the diode and cap on the VT100 video cards that's underrated. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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Altair Image Wanted

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

--- Cameron Kaiser wrote: ::> Speaking of sledgehammers (way OT), did anyone see the artwork in last ::> week's Time with a picture of Bill Gates and someone running down the aisle ::> with a sledgehammer? An excellent photocollage for an article covering the ::> anti-trust proceedings. :: ::I didn't see it. Sounds like a parody of the Apple 1984 commercial? Oh yeah. I might scan it for people who missed it. Anyone interested? --- end of quote --- Yes, that would be great. Thanks! -- MB

27 years, 6 months

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Altair Image Wanted

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> For the Very Reasonable Price of $10,000.00(US) I will take my >> specimen out in the driveway and beat it into bits and flinders with >> a sledgehammer, while recording the event on various video and still >> cameras... then I will ship you the film *and* the residue via >> FedEx.... and I'll pay the shipping!! >Your offer is very tempting, John, but for $10K, you should at least offer >to let me swing the sledgehammer. :-) >Could you be persuaded to do it for the sake of Art? I'd offer to throw >in an original Microsoft mouse if you'd like to make the ultimate >Microsoft bashing statement.... An original Microsoft mouse? You can be far more classic than that. Why not take my original Microsoft paper tape of Altair Basic, tie it up in knots to make an effigy of Bill Gates, place it on top of the documentation (with Microsoft's original Arizona address), and set the whole bunch on fire? Tim.

27 years, 6 months

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KIM envy

by franke＠sbs.de

>>>>A Rockwell variant ? Please tell me more. >>> I may be wrong here... I think Rockwell did a *cased* KIM-1 for NRI or some >>> other such school.... Along with their AIM 65... >> Realy - that sounds new and _very_ interesting for me. >> Has anyone more info about that ? > You mean you don't remember my encased AIM65 that was on exhibit at the > VCF? There's a picture of it up on Jim Willing's web site. Good Morning Sam (I always forget that you are just 9 hours later :) Go back and read again - the news (at least to me) was that Rockwell produced KIMs (not only AIMs) or at least have boxed KIMs (Not only AIMs) to sell / give them to schools and/or NRI what ever this is (National Rifle Institute ?). ANYTHING around the kim is just interesting. Gruss Hans P.S.: Does anybody have saved some of the extention modules for the KIM ? -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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Revamped Web site up

by franke＠sbs.de

> This computer, made by MOS Technologies, was created to > feature various chips that it had created. The 6502 > processor was created by Chuck Peddle a Motorola engineer > who later worked for Commodore. Some say that the 6502 is > a clone of Motorola's 6800; Peddle worked on the 6800 > project while he worked at Motorola. Maybe based on the usual mix up of facts. The 6500/x wasn't a clone at all - maybe a simplified design using the same philosophy about a CPU, but the 6500/1 (or 6501) did use the 6800 Bus _and_ was pin compatible, so a engeneer could replace the 6800 by a 6500/1 in a existing design without any consideration about hardware. Of course the software has to be rewritten. From todays point of view its like if Motorola would design a socket 7 PowerPC chip. And in fact, AMD is about to do a similar trick - they will use the EV6 bus protocall of the Alpha 21264 in their new K7 design - I don't know if it will be compatible at pin level, but I guess so. This might lead eventualy to a series of basic PC boards, able to be used with an Alpha 21264 running some Unix or an K7 as x86 compatible PC. And all at the Taiwan price range (Alpha boards are still between 175 and 300% the price of similar PC boards - at least here in Munich). Later on, the 6500/2 (or 6502) and all orther CPUs of the 6500 series used their own bus protokoll and pinout. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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Tandy 600 Archive

by roblwill＠usaor.net

What's the BASIC file for? -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Tandy 600 Archive > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:06 AM > > At 10:17 PM 11/4/98 -0500, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > >There are a few pictures under the "graphics" subdir... as explained to me: > >There may be some pictures ... but prolly are ascii-type art. > > I saw old Compuserve-style "RLE" graphics files, and some ".do" documents > that contained a series comma-separated numbers that are probably another > form of run-length-encoded graphics data. Not quite ASCII art. > > - John > Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> >

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Classic != IBM AT

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I think there's an 80376 in my HP Vectra. It also has an i386SX-25. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Classic != IBM AT > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 5:43 AM > > On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote: > > > No thanks to whoever said the 8088 and 8086 were the same thing. If that's > > the case, the Pentium and the 80386 are the same thing :-) > > More like the 80386SX and 80386DX, but I'm just picking nits. Which > reminds me, does anybody have one of Intel's ill-fated 80376 chips? You > know, the 386 with no real-mode or paging support. > > -- Doug >

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Acorn BBC Micros

by Arlen.Michaels.amichael＠nt.com

> Mark <mark_k(a)iname.com> wrote: > > Use a step-up transformer (110 to 220-240V), frequency probably > irrelevant, though I'm no BBC expert. You should be able to find these in > many places like Tandy/Radio Shack. > > You could hook the composite output up to a video monitor or TV. You might > have to adjust the vertical hold and vertical size to get a decent > picture. And this would be monochrome. > > Connect the TTL RGB o/p to a suitable monitor for colour. As long as the > monitor has a v.hold control you should be able to get a stable picture. > Mark is right. I'm running a UK model BBC here in Canada and it displays quite well on an RGB monitor. Don't let the monitor concern deter you from acquiring one of these elegant little 8-bitters. If you appreciate the Apple II, you'll respect what a thoughtful job Acorn did with the BBC and the version of Basic they built in. Do try to get one with a floppy-disk interface installed (it was an internal option in the earlier models). You can use it to connect old IBM 360K drives (40 track) easily enough. I haven't bothered to adapt the psu to 120V (just running it off a 120-to-240 transformer). Line frequency has not been a problem. Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortel.ca

27 years, 6 months

1
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Altair Image Wanted

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

Why not use a picture of an intact one and use Kai's Power Goo or a Morphing Program to 'mash it'. When done properly, it should look believable. That would be a better alternative than making a bunch of classic collectors cry over the destruction of an Altair. Jeff Salzman >>> For the Very Reasonable Price of $10,000.00(US) I will take my >>> specimen out in the driveway and beat it into bits and flinders with >>> a sledgehammer, while recording the event on various video and still >

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Do You Have a PDP-11/03L?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Kevin, I was thinking about your system this morning. It ocurred to me that if you have an H7861 power supply (it's rated +5V @ 36A and +12V @ 5A, BTW), you may have most of the rest of the box it was originally fitted in. That PSU belongs (belonged?) to a BA-11S box, which looks like a BA-11M box as used for an 11/03, but was actually made for the PDP-11/23-plus and the (OEM) 11/73S. The original box would have had an H9276 backplane, and an AC power input box as well. Now, if you have the H9276 backplane, you have no worries about putting a 22-bit system in it, because it's not only designed for 22-bit systems, but has on-board terminators. It's a straight QQ-CD 4 x 9 "straight" backplane; all the slots have Q22 in slots A/B and CD-interconnect in C/D. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

KIM envy

by franke＠sbs.de

>>A Rockwell variant ? Please tell me more. > I may be wrong here... I think Rockwell did a *cased* KIM-1 for NRI or some > other such school.... Along with their AIM 65... Realy - that sounds new and _very_ interesting for me. Has anyone more info about that ? Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Acorn BBC Micros

by franke＠sbs.de

>> US UK >> NTSC -- smooth and flaky PAL -- flickery but more reliable Oh, and when speaking of systems - never forget the french SECAM :) Especialy we had this also here in Germany, since eastern Germany took it as Standard system, to seperate from western TV - the people had to decide if they want to see their stations in colour (SECAM) or ours (PAL) - in the beginning Multi Mode TV sets have been very rare and expensive. Officialy they also sold only sets with SECAM decoders, but since they also exportet (cheap) sets to western Germany, a modular design was choosen - and PAL decoders have been sold below the tables :) The eastern government even decided to change polarity of the SECAM colour signal, to avoide the possibility of viewing western TV in colour, even if the westen stations would switch to SECAM (at this time the PAL/SECAM dispute was still unclear). Multi mode sets have been quite popular in the past, and today, almost any TV sold (or at least any I had within the last 10 years) is able to display SAL, SECAM and NTSC, 50 and 60 Hz. Maybe this is only true above 600 USD. >> Now, more sensible input scheme SCART which seems excellent AFAIK >> on modern sets > SCART is fine until you have to wire the darn plug :-). Seriously, it > works well for what it was intended for, although the connector is no-way > constant impedance, and there are some sillies in how the pins are used > (for example, there's audio in and out (doubled for L and R channels), > composite in and out, but only one set of RGB lines). But it's a lot > better than the random mess that came before. Yes! And SCART is also almost mandatory for TVs since years. I remember using my TV (via RGB/SCART) as a colour CRT for the Atari ST, when playing games - the Display was better than on the Atari colour monitor I had at this time (But in fact I usualy used only the B&W) Also I could switch the frequency to 60 Hz. The TV did syncronize very well. >> Closed-captioning and a few Teletext; would put US closed-captioning to >> other "trick" services which shame except the TV turns it off when you >> may have rather sneaky imple- change channels; useful for many things >> mentations > Of course few people exploit teletext to its full. It's sent as ASCII > data (with in-line attribute characters for setting colours, etc) in the > vertical blanking interval. This means that it's possible to connect a > teletext decoder chip up to a computer, store/analyse/print the info, > etc. But few people have tried that. There was a teletext decoder box for > the BBC micro (to tie in the start of this thread), and there were even > plans to distribute BASIC programs for that machine on some teletext pages. Teletext decoders for PCs are still popular here in Germany. And not only PC - there have been (or better are still) a lot of solutions for decoding on home computers etc. There where several solutions for the C64 and at least two different cards for the Apple ][. For Linux are several simple programms for capturing available (working with almost any decoder) and I know even one working as a stand alone solution, scanning all programmes stations for all pages and buffering them on hard disk - Just start the server and within the next 15 minutes you have all pages from all station available in direct, random access - or just let it run continous... And to top this, I've seen one software capturing the sub title page with all changes and timestamps within a text file - you get an automatic manuscript of all speach ... or when used on news broadcasts you just get writen TV news :) And when speaking of features: European systems offer stero chanals or divided chanals since several years. I don't remember when thy started in Germany, but I think it was more than 10 years ago. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Tandy 600 (was:Tandy MC5000)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> > I just pulled mine from storage over the weekend and discovered that I had > left the memory switch on several years ago when I put it up. Now it won't > boot even under AC. I guess I need to replace the backup battery - anyone > have any info on this? > You shouldn't need a new battery - I think it was NiCd. You'll have to do a cold start. Make sure the memory switch is on, then hold down <alt>, <label>, <ctrl>, and <esc> down while pressing the power button. This should make it go. When I tried this on mine, I got this message after it accessed the disk drive: Uncoop System Load: Disk Error. Retry (Y/N)? Hit <N> The 600 will turn off. Turn it back on using the <power> button. You will get a message: Unable to restart, critical system data damaged. Hit any key to reinitialize system. Hit a key, and MS-WORKS 1.20 will come up Now I have a question: When I "cold start" it, and it accesses the disk drive, could it possibly be booted from a disk?? -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************

27 years, 6 months

3
3
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KIM envy

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Hans Franke <franke(a)sbs.de> >A Rockwell variant ? Please tell me more. I may be wrong here... I think Rockwell did a *cased* KIM-1 for NRI or some other such school.... Along with their AIM 65... Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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A couple of new finds and Next question

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Got a promo video copy of the Commodore Amiga rollout at the Comdex Nov '87 called AMIGA MAKE IT POSSIBLE. It features a rock band singing about the Amiga (looks like Microsoft got it's Stone idea from ?) and shows off the graphic's of the Amiga. Also got another training tape showing how to install the AMLINK for the Amiga. Awhile back picked up a TRS-80 Pocket computer with the Printer Cassette Interface. Now the Next question is does anyone no how to create a boot diskette for the Next ? I have one that will not finish the system file load and would like to boot it from the floppy if possible. I do have another working station to use for creating the boot disk. Any help on this would be great Thanks. John

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Any spots in Ft. Lauderdale

by jruschme＠exit109.com

Okay, at the risk of asking people to give up their secrets... I just found out that we've got to fly down to Ft. Lauderdale, FL for a couple of days. Any interesting spots there for classic pickings? <<<John>>>

27 years, 6 months

6
8
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KIM envy

by franke＠sbs.de

> But, might I suggest a visceral replacement: the HP-5036A is a single > board 8085 system, and it is COOLNESS exemplified. > a display, keyboard, output leds, and (even a) speaker, and input switches > are periphs that are usable through ported i/o, digital test points > everywhere, several programs in rom, a very usalbe monitor for doing machine > code (is that oxymoronic?) Overall, a very hands on system that encourages > play and they can still be found and sometimes reasonably ( I think one went > on ePay for $80 ). .. oh yeah, the board is beautiful. I WANT IT - AND I WANT IT NOW (c)Freddy M. > Still, if anyone runs across a batch of KIMS ( especially a Rockwell > variant... ) please keep me in mind. ;) A Rockwell variant ? Please tell me more. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Classics made the WSJ Again

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I'd like to read the article. Thanks for mentioning it. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Classics made the WSJ Again Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/5/98 7:28 AM Hello, all: Last Friday's Wall Street Journal (NY Edition) had a front-page article about collecting classic computers. Our very own Kip Crosby, Jim Willing, and the VCF were mentioned. If anyone wants the article, I'll scan it and post it to my Web site tonight, Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========> ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov05.072807.1767.75571; Thu, 05 Nov 1998 07:28:08 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id EAA20369; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:26:07 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id EAA51008 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:25:58 -0800 Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (smtp.email.msn.com [207.68.143.137] (may be forged)) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id EAA17 580 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:25:58 -0800 Received: from mainoffice - 153.35.217.115 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:25:55 -0800 Message-Id: <000a01be08b6$c355c200$73d92399@mainoffice> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:20:14 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Richard A. Cini, Jr." <rcini(a)email.msn.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Classics made the WSJ Again X-To: "ClassCompList" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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KIM envy

by dogas＠leading.net

Like probably everyone else that *dosen't* have a KIM-1, I'm finally accepting that fact that I possibly never will. I know.... it still hurts. ( I know, I need a life... ) But, might I suggest a visceral replacement: the HP-5036A is a single board 8085 system, and it is COOLNESS exemplified. a display, keyboard, output leds, and (even a) speaker, and input switches are periphs that are usable through ported i/o, digital test points everywhere, several programs in rom, a very usalbe monitor for doing machine code (is that oxymoronic?) Overall, a very hands on system that encourages play and they can still be found and sometimes reasonably ( I think one went on ePay for $80 ). .. oh yeah, the board is beautiful. Anyone ever hear of any expansion options for this system using the edge connectors? Still, if anyone runs across a batch of KIMS ( especially a Rockwell variant... ) please keep me in mind. ;) Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

1
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MOS 6530's (Was: KIM-1 (Was: Apple I clone (was Apple I Computer

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Ah ja. The hardest to find parts today are the 6530-x >> chips, a multi fonction chip with 1 K mask programmable >> ROM, mask programmable chip select, I/O lines, timers >> and 64 Bytes of RAM. They are only available by scraping >> a real KIM. The nearest replacement is the 6532, witch >> utilizes I/O, Timer and 128 Bytes RAM. The I/O is almost >> the same - just two pins have to be shortened, but the >> chip select is fixed and not equal to none of the 6530-x. > There was one version of one of the CBM disk drives (I think it was the > 8252LP) where a 6530 was replaced by a daughtboard containing (I think) > an 6532 + a ROM + TTL glue. I don't know how universal that solution is, > but I guess something could be worked out. Jep, thats exactly the soulution I was suggesting. Ans speaking of 6530s, I always wanted to know what versions have existed/are existing, and where they have been used. 6530-002 KIM 1 KIM (Keyboard Input Monitor) 6530-003 KIM 1 Autio tape extention for KIM 6530-004 JOLT (I just don't remember the software name) ??? Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

1
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Now quite OT: Re: ePay

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:18 PM 10/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I.e., you could post "I just bought one at a thrift for $12.50" when >> the bidding for an Atari 1200xl goes over $100... > >Why would they want to do that? It would be the same as shooting >themselves in the foot. Not to mention which, it's totally irrelevant. If I was selling a Ferrari for $10K, and you came along and told the bidder that you had just bought one for $100, would that matter? What would be relevant is how much you would sell your 1200XL or Ferrari for. If it's not for sale, what you paid for it, or even the fact that another exists, is meaningless. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

4
5
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Classics made the WSJ Again

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Last Friday's Wall Street Journal (NY Edition) had a front-page article about collecting classic computers. Our very own Kip Crosby, Jim Willing, and the VCF were mentioned. If anyone wants the article, I'll scan it and post it to my Web site tonight, Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Adaptec HD controller access?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> Generally you type int he sequence where you run what's in memory at the > beginning of the ROM address, usually C800 as the primary controller. At the > Debug prompt you type G=C800:5 or it may be G=CC00:5 or G=D000:5 as well as > another I forget. It also is dependant upon the controller itself but they > usually followed some standards. > I'll need to try the other addersses. I'm basically assuming that <G=C800:5> is an incorrect address, since it causes the computer to reboot. > Once the program starts you have to figure out what they're asking for as this > is where they get different. Western Digital controllers were pretty > striaghtforward. > That they were. I've worked with them in my Tandy 1000's. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************

27 years, 6 months

4
3
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Spring Cleaning - Revisited

by Anthony.Dellett＠Staples.com

Okay, to avoid confusion, I'm going ahead and adding prices to these. Some prices are negotiable, most are firm. $10 plus shipping, the RAM cards alone are worth $10 :) Atari 800 (not working, parts?) $30 each, they work and include cables Atari 1050 Disk Drive (two of them) $30 each Commodore 64 (complete in box, I have two like this) $30 for the working grey one, the broken one is a white one and I'll sell for $10 Commodore 1541 Disk Drive (2 in box, one works, one doesn't) $25 Commodore 1541 II Disk Drive (complete in box) $35 Commodore 128 (complete in box) $25 Commodore 1571 Disk Drive (complete in box) $100, it's in beautiful shape. Compupro S-100 Enclosure (motherboard and PS only, no cards) $600, it works, it needs a DPST toggle switch (whomever owned it before me moved power off the front panel to a toggle switch in back, it broke recently) or you can move the power back to the front panel. IMSAI 8080 With: 8080 Processor Card (IMSAI) SIO4 (Godbout w/docs) RAM64 (Godbout w/docs) PIO8 (IMSAI) $40 Kaypro I (incl. boot disk) $40, this has a third party RTC upgrade in it, it needs new batteries. Kaypro II (incl. boot disk) $40 Kaypro IV (incl. boot disk) Make offer. The cards are in pretty good shape but the disk drives are shot and the power supply needs restoration. NorthStar Horizon (not working) $200. Works perfectly, comes with Graphic CP/M 2.2 NorthStar Advantage (works completely, with boot disk) $20, good for parts. Might actually be repairable. Has the modem upgrade. Osborne I (not working) $50, works great, I have CP/M and P-System boot disks Osborne Executive (incl. boot disk) $300, mostly works, needs a $5 replacement keyboard encoder Processor Technology SOL w/SOLOS personality module $30, cute little all-in-one system Sanyo CP/M System (with software) $30 TI-99/4A Computer (beige model, in box) $60 TRS-80 Model III (with some software) $50, for both 8" DS/DD Floppy Drive (in wooden enclosure) and Controller (Godbout w/docs) 8" SS/SD Floppy Drive (no enclosure) $150, it's a really nice subsystem. 8" SS/SD Dual Drive Subsystem (ICOM) $50 8" Hard Disk Drive in enclosure w/controller (Fujitsu Hard Drive, Godbout Controller w/docs) A couple of things I forgot... $30 Macintosh Portable - Needs a new display cable and battery. Includes carrying case. $50 "Fat" Macintosh - Mac 512K, works great, in original box with original packing. $20 CoCo 2 - Works peachy $30 Epson HX-20 - Brand new, never used. Works great. $50 HP 9835B - Works perfectly, even the printer. Buyers pay shipping charges FOB Lawrence, Massachusetts. I'm willing to pay parts of shipping on larger items. Whatever isn't spoken for here by next monday (11/9) will be posted on Ebay. Thanks Tony

27 years, 6 months

3
2
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FA: Apple Lisa and Apple IIC LCD Display

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:53 PM 11/1/98 +0000, you wrote: >> would've appreciated an offer on this list first rather than going to ebay and >> then announcing it to us all.. that would have been an even better >I hate Ebay and always kick Ebay for loss of intellegient control to >keep things in reasonable terms and less of "out of control", root There are a lot of people who seriously lament the fact that they'll never be able to afford to buy a house in San Francisco. Why? Because there are a lot more people who want them then there are houses. So the prices go up. You can't fault the people who sell them for not selling them cheaper. Sure, you can lament the fact that there are more collectors out there than there are Apple I's or whatever, but it won't do you any good, and it makes no sense to chastise ebay for creating an efficient way to get those items in front of more people or sellers for using that method to get the most for their items. That's life, my friend. If you don't have the $ to buy on ebay, you can instead work a little harder and find the same things elsewhere for lower prices (our own beloved Sam is an excellent example of this.) If you've got the $, you can be lazy and just bid a zillion samolians on ebay. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Now quite OT: Re: ePay

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:05 AM 10/26/98 -0800, you wrote: >What I'd love to see is a live auction site, where the auctions for each >item don't last more than 10 minutes or so. Descriptions/pictures for the When I was working for Compuserve's Collectibles Forum (a few years back, before my mom passed away), we did just that for the "Other Collectibles" section. I believe they did it for coins as well. Given IRC or something similar, it wouldn't be hard to do. I don't think web-based live auctions would work; updates wouldn't be live enough. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Mac emulators?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

there's one i have on cd called executor2 that runs most but not all pre system7 apps pretty good. not good with sound though. In a message dated 10/30/98 8:19:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, roblwill(a)usaor.net writes: > Hello everyone! > > Is there such a thing as a Mac emulator for a PC? I'd like to download > some Mac stuff from the internet, but the only computer that has internet > access is a PC. > > Any suggestions (besides buying one of those Mac/PC programs)? > > ThAnX,

27 years, 6 months

7
6
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Revamped Web site up

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I just revamped my Classic Computing web site because I wasn't happy with its organization. Check out http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ and let me know what you think. (I already know that I have to fix the hyperlink colors.) Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Acorn BBC Micros

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 4, 19:43, Tony Duell wrote: > > I guess I'd need a PAL monitor > Well, there are 3 monitor outputs on a BBC micro. > The second is a BNC socket carrying composite video. By default this is > monochrome (no PAL subcarrier), but you can add an internal link on > late-version machines to add the colour (PAL, of course) information. On the earlier machines (Issue 2 or 3 PCB) you just need to add a 47nF capacitor to link the colour burst signal from the circuit that drives the modulator, to the circuit that drives the composite video. > The last video output is a 6 pin DIN socket. It carries TTL RGB signals > and compositie sync. If you can find a RGB colour monitor that can use UK > rates (and a lot can), then you can connect it here. The Philips 8833 monitors that (at least in Europe) were badged by Commodore and Atari for Amigas and STs work very well. But be warned - the Beeb outputs composite sync, and the centre pin of the RGB connector goes directly to the +5V supply -- which a few monitors don't like. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Looking for Sony V7021 IC data sheet and Amiga UNIX questio

by mark_k＠iname.com

On 4 Nov 1998 Eric Smith wrote: >> Does anyone have a data sheet for the Sony V7021 IC? This is a video decoder > >That's not a Sony part number. Sony used > CX<digits><suffix> >on older stuff, and > CX<letter><digits><suffix> >on newer stuff, where letter is M for memory, P for processor, A for analog, >D for other digital, etc. > >What other numbers are on the part? Does it actually bear a Sony logo? It absolutely is a Sony part. 28 pin package, pins are on a finer pitch than "normal" DIL ICs, maybe 0.4 wide. On the chip is printed: SONY [the Sony logo] V7021 (C) Asuki [Asuki is in Japanese katakana, not romaji] 142B95K On a related subject, can anyone recommend a cheap IC which I can use for buffering RGB signals, to driving 75ohm-terminated outputs? -- Mark

27 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Do You Have a PDP-11/03L?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 4, 18:42, Daniel T. Burrows wrote: > Subject: Re: Do You Have a PDP-11/03L? > > >I have an 11/03L carcass and am hoping to use the backplane for a set of > >11/73 boards I've acquired for a friend. > I would be very cautious installing the 11/73 boards into an 11/03 > backplane. You won't do any harm on a genuine DEC backplane; the worst that'll happen is that BDAL18-21 won't be bussed. 11/73S machines were sold in BA11N boxes, which are very similar to the original 11/03 and 11/23 boxes. However, be wary of Plessey backplanes; some of these put 24V or AC voltages onto the "spare" bus lines. > I have numerous BA23 chassis here if you need one but I would > look locally for a MV2 or 3 to save shipping costs. I usually pick up MV2's > for $5 to $50 depending on what is in them. > Also look for the BA123's. They were only sold for MV's but they make good > PDP11 test beds. MicroPDP-11/83s were sold in BA123 cabinets. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Do You Have a PDP-11/03L?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>I have an 11/03L carcass and am hoping to use the backplane for a set of >11/73 boards I've acquired for a friend. I would be very cautious installing the 11/73 boards into an 11/03 backplane. I have numerous BA23 chassis here if you need one but I would look locally for a MV2 or 3 to save shipping costs. I usually pick up MV2's for $5 to $50 depending on what is in them. Also look for the BA123's. They were only sold for MV's but they make good PDP11 test beds. I have a couple here just for testing PDP11 parts. Dan Burrows

27 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Acorn BBC Micros

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 4, 23:27, Mark wrote: > Subject: Re: Acorn BBC Micros > SCART is super for things like computers and game consoles, since it allows RGB > input, something that apparently almost no US TVs do. And it has IN and OUT for most signals, so you can do loopback and daisy-chaining. > >To keep this on the topic of the thread, I *am* interested in getting a BBC. > >I guess I'd need a PAL monitor and a 220-volt, 50-hz power supply to run it > >though. Does anyone have any ideas? > > Use a step-up transformer (110 to 220-240V), frequency probably irrelevant, > though I'm no BBC expert. As Tony has pointed out, it's very easy to convert -- all the Astec and BSR SMPSUs that were used have a link you can make for 110V operation. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by hhacker＠gte.net

It is interesting that 5150 is also the numerical code attached to the process by which a person is involutarily committed to a mental ward. The first personal computer I ever saw was an IBM, though the number is not now known to me. However, it had a switch on the front which allowed for either execution of a BASIC interpreter, or execution of an APL interpreter. It was a little larger than an Osborne 1 but, its structure had a lot in common with the Osborne 1, or the Kaypro, etc. That a person does not have knowledge of a source of a "BIG IRON" machine, nor the ability to operate it has little to do with the definition of personal computer. In the early to mid 70's, I was an operator of 360 and 370 computers, and believe me, it is perfectly possible for a single operator to keep such machines in operation. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 1:30 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/44 boot prompt >"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various >> development systems don't count. Satisfied? > >Since when is an IMSAI not a personal computer? Surely you're not one of the >people that claim that IBM "invented" the Personal Computer with the 5150? > >

27 years, 6 months

15
27
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Tandy 600 (was:Tandy MC5000)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> Naturally the > machine died like a pig, leaving less of a ripple as it sank than > the Tandy 2000 or even the Tandy 600 portable had. > Just how many of the 600's were made/possibly are still in working order? Just how rare are they, and how much would one be worth? I had people trying to sell me non-working ones for $50 and over (I didn't buy them because I have a working one). Also on the topic of the 600, Does anyone have a modem cable and a printer cable for one (or a BASIC chip)? One last question... Is there any way to run non-ROM programs on the 600? ThAnX, -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************

27 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Tandy 600 (was:Tandy MC5000)

by bwit＠ticnet.com

On Wednesday, November 04, 1998 5:20 PM, Jason Willgruber [SMTP:roblwill@usaor.net] wrote: > > Naturally the > > machine died like a pig, leaving less of a ripple as it sank than > > the Tandy 2000 or even the Tandy 600 portable had. > > > Just how many of the 600's were made/possibly are still in working order? > Just how rare are they, and how much would one be worth? I had people > trying to sell me non-working ones for $50 and over (I didn't buy them > because I have a working one). No idea but you sure don't run into them very often. > > Also on the topic of the 600, Does anyone have a modem cable and a printer > cable for one (or a BASIC chip)? I have all of the above but I wouldn't be interested in parting with any of it. > > One last question... > Is there any way to run non-ROM programs on the 600? You could run programs from diskette. The machine has an 8086 chip in it I believe and I think there was an assembler available for it but I've never seen one. I just pulled mine from storage over the weekend and discovered that I had left the memory switch on several years ago when I put it up. Now it won't boot even under AC. I guess I need to replace the backup battery - anyone have any info on this? > > ThAnX, > > -Jason > > *********************************************** > * Jason Willgruber * > * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * > * * > * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * > * ICQ#-1730318 * > * /0\/0\ * > * > Long Live the 5170! * > * \___/ * > ************************************************

27 years, 6 months

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Acorn BBC Micros

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 D. Peschel wrote> >NTSC -- smooth and flaky PAL -- flickery but more reliable > (still prone to interference, but fewer > color-related symptoms, based on my watching > Wimbledon from an old flat near Knightsbridge) For TV programmes, the flicker isn't really noticeable (though maybe it is if you're used to 60Hz NTSC pictures). The higher PAL vertical resolution and no 3:2 pulldown is better suited to films than NTSC. No hue problems on PAL either (no hue control at all). >VHF frequency bands: VHF frequency bands: >channels 2-13 ? >(1 was scrapped in short order) I think VHF has long been out of use for TV in the UK. The old VHF transmitters were turned off in 1979 (or thereabouts). >UHF frequency bands: UHF frequency bands: >channels 14-99? ? >(not sure -- little-used, many >conflicting terms and marketing) Don't know what channel numbers are used, though probably much the same as in the USA -- I managed to get a picture using my old US portable TV the other day (albeit in monochrome with no sound and slightly stretched picture). >Now, more sensible input scheme SCART which seems excellent AFAIK >on modern sets SCART is super for things like computers and game consoles, since it allows RGB input, something that apparently almost no US TVs do. >To keep this on the topic of the thread, I *am* interested in getting a BBC. >I guess I'd need a PAL monitor and a 220-volt, 50-hz power supply to run it >though. Does anyone have any ideas? Use a step-up transformer (110 to 220-240V), frequency probably irrelevant, though I'm no BBC expert. You should be able to find these in many places like Tandy/Radio Shack. You could hook the composite output up to a video monitor or TV. You might have to adjust the vertical hold and vertical size to get a decent picture. And this would be monochrome. Connect the TTL RGB o/p to a suitable monitor for colour. As long as the monitor has a v.hold control you should be able to get a stable picture. -- Mark

27 years, 6 months

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Almost on topic VMS 5.2 help please

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 4 November 1998 14:36 Subject: Re: Almost on topic VMS 5.2 help please >< >>> B/R5:1 >< SYSBOOT> SET/STARTUP OPA0: >< SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 > >I've seen that but I've not used it. The procedure I use is basically out >of the VMS docs. SYSUAFALT from the docs (I think that's what it is) mostly works too, though it might not on some systems. The VMS faq mentions it, and suggests the other way as being better. YMMV. I've used both at different times on VS 3100/4000 and Uvax II machines, and on a 6000 (or two). cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

not sure about the 8533. there was a 9535 which of only a few were made which had a 90 day warranty only, and then there is the 9533 a PS/2E. very cool and although it's too new to discuss, WILL be a classic collectable. that's why i'm keeping mine and hopefully can get the one back that i gave to my brother. it was a 486slc and had one isa slot that usually had a pcmcia adaptor in it. In a message dated 98-11-05 16:31:15 EST, you write: << With nearly 40 of them here I'm sure they exist without a doubt. As for it being the last ISA, nope. There were even 386SX ISA machines in the PS/2 line, such as the 8533 (I think that was the model). The 2x, 3x and 4x models all had ISA slots. The 5x models and up were microchannel. >>

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Russ Blakeman wrote: > Wanna buy some PS/2's??? I have a bunch, models 30 (8088) through 95XP (8595 not > 9595) > > John Rollins wrote: > >> >The PS/2 Model 30=286 didn't have a cable going to the riser card in it, >> >nor was it an MCA machine. It was an ISA machine, and The HD plugged into One of you thinks the 8530 (PS/2 model 30) was an 8088, the other thinks it was an 80286. I claim you're both wrong. The model 30 was IBM's first (and to my knowledge only) machine to be based on the 8086. If I am wrong, and a 286 version did exist, no doubt flames will appear in great numbers. Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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cnet: "Fraud threatens auction sites"

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28301,00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.f Extract: Online auctioneers smell a rat. Individuals who sell items over online auction sites like eBay <http://www.ebay.com/> and AuctionUniverse <http://www.auctionuniverse.com/> suspect that their bidding sessions are being artificially manipulated by phantom buyers known as "shielders" and "shills"--and that the auction sites are not doing all they can to discourage the fraud.

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by roblwill＠usaor.net

The 30-286 did exist. I just sold one, and have one torn apart in my basement. I *think* that they were the last ISA PS/2's. Not too sure about that, though. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ > > One of you thinks the 8530 (PS/2 model 30) was an 8088, the other thinks it > was an 80286. I claim you're both wrong. The model 30 was IBM's first > (and to my knowledge only) machine to be based on the 8086. > > > If I am wrong, and a 286 version did exist, no doubt flames will appear in > great numbers. > > > > Philip. > > > > >

27 years, 6 months

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DayStar adapter for IIsi

by jruschme＠hiway1.exit109.com

A while back I picked up a Mac IIsi which included the adapter for a DayStar accelerator (but no accel.). Given that, I hace a few questions: 1) I notice that there are two ports on the board. One is obviously for the accelerator. What is the other one? A IIsi PDS? 2) Since I don't have a DayStar card, what else (if anything) can I do with the adapter? Can I plug in a IIci cache card? 3) Anybody want to swap it for a Nubus adapter? :-) Thanks in advance... <<<John>>>

27 years, 6 months

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Do You Have a PDP-11/03L?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Hi, Kevin. On Nov 3, 21:46, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > I have an 11/03L carcass and am hoping to use the backplane for a set of > 11/73 boards I've acquired for a friend. > > I need info on the power supply, hopefully a print set, or in the least > some info on the pinout of the 10 conductor ribbon cable that runs from the > supply to the front panel. My machine has _no_ front panel! The front panel pin numbers match the PSU numbering at the other end, so as long as you can identify pin 1, here are the connections for a real 11/03 panel: 1 BPOK H 2 BEVENT L 3 SRUN L 4 not used/not connected on the front panel 5 GND 6 GND 7 +5V 8 SPARE 9 BHALT L 10 BDCOK H On a real 11/03 panel, SPARE is connected to one end of a 220-ohm resistor; the other end of that resistor is connected to the cathode position of an LED position -- the LED isn't actually fitted -- and the anode of the LED is connected to the +5V line. The other signals are connected to a small circuit containing bus buffers and some inverters to drive 2 LEDs (POWER OK and RUN) and be driven by two toggle-switches (AUX ON grounds the BEVENT line and RUN/HALT is connected via a bus buffer to BHALT L) and a momentary changeover switch (which feeds a pair of monostables to regulate the pulse width, which then drives BDCOK H). > I want to determine which lines are the (presumably) DC OK, HALT, RESTART, > etc, so that I can install the 11/73 gear and control the system. See above. > Secondly, the +12 VDC line from the supply is sitting at 9.5V, no load. > There may be a problem, I can fix it but the print set would be most helpful. Yes, that's definitely a fault, though you should test it under load and look at the BDCOK signal from the PSU. Sorry, I only have diagrams for H876 and H780; the H8761 is a switch mode (as is the 786) but fairly different, I think. Anyway, sending a copy of the print set over the Atlantic might be slow and expensive :-) BTW, a 7861 is not original equipment for any 11/03, it came off an 11/73S or 11/23plus. Perhaps you have a 22-bit backplane as well? What's the backplane H-number? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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KIM-1 (Was: Apple I clone (was Re: Apple I Computer For

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> I knew someone who built a KIM-1 from schematics. His departure is that >>> he did it all on the S100 bus. He ran it for a number of years while we >>> were in school together. I need to find out what happened to that >>> machine. >> KIM-1 from schematics ? And where did he get the >> 6530-2 and -3 without taking them from a real KIM ? >> I guess it was more like a KIM alike with 6532's >> (with a bit of additional decoding, changing two >> lines and just not using half of the RAM they could >> work as 6530 without ROM) and a 2716 (also with >> additional address decoding). > I'm not sure how he got around this but I know he did this at a time when > the KIM was still in production and as I recall he did buy some specific > parts directly from the KIM-1 manufacture. I remember the kim keyboard > being genuine. Ah ja. The hardest to find parts today are the 6530-x chips, a multi fonction chip with 1 K mask programmable ROM, mask programmable chip select, I/O lines, timers and 64 Bytes of RAM. They are only available by scraping a real KIM. The nearest replacement is the 6532, witch utilizes I/O, Timer and 128 Bytes RAM. The I/O is almost the same - just two pins have to be shortened, but the chip select is fixed and not equal to none of the 6530-x. I made a design for a KIM clone years ago, but I never did build it actualy. These 6530s are just hard to replace - and if I start to replace, I could also drop most of the other additional stuff not needed today, like cassete interface or 50 mA loop, exchange the direct controlled LED by some 'intelligent' ones and the and would be a 199x KIM but no replika ... So where is the sense... Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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Acorn BBC Micros

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 3, 21:23, D. Peschel wrote: > > US UK > > NTSC -- smooth and flaky PAL -- flickery but more reliable 60Hz vertical scan - smooth 50Hz vertical scan - more flickery NTSC - flaky PAL - more reliable > VHF frequency bands: VHF frequency bands: > channels 2-13 ? > (1 was scrapped in short order) 2-13 (or was it 2-12?) TV was removed from the VHF band in Europe some years ago. The frequencies have been reallocated for various comms uses. > UHF frequency bands: UHF frequency bands: > channels 14-99? ? > (not sure -- little-used, many > conflicting terms and marketing) 15-65 IIRC > Satellite and cable TV bands: Satellite and cable TV bands: > Too complicated for me to guess ? Mostly C-band? Ku-band > "tuning in" may be required to relate ideal > channel number with actual band number > (which changes from area to area) although they are published in various places > Devices attached to ch. 3 or 4 Devices attached to ch. 36? > (whichever is unused) in past Ch.36 is actually allocated to other uses, so when the "Channel 5" TV station went live, mainly using channels around ch.36, lots of people had problems :-) Most of the TV stations use channels separated by 3 chanels (so 33, 36, 39) to minimise interference effects. > To keep this on the topic of the thread, I *am* interested in getting a BBC. > I guess I'd need a PAL monitor and a 220-volt, 50-hz power supply to run it > though. Does anyone have any ideas? There was a U.S. version with a 110VAC PSU. The standard PSU is a switcher, though, and I know of one person who (inadvertantly) used it successfully on 120V. I got a phone call one day (in my capacity as engineering support person at an Acorn distributor) from a guy who'd bought a BBC and a monitor. He was having trouble with the monitor; it turned out he was working in Saudi Arabia, and had been using a TV originally. All was well, until he upgraded to a monitor bought in the UK. It turned out the monitor was intended for 240V, and didn't like Saudi electricity. Then it dawned on us -- the Beeb was OK, even though it was also running on the same Saudi 120V. YMMV :-) I think the 50/60Hz difference *may* be a problem, since a US monitor will prefer to sync to 60Hz. The US BBCs had a modified MOS ROM, with US scan rates and "colour" changed to "color" in the messages and BASIC keywords. That was about the only difference, AFAIR. The line frequency won't bother the Beeb PSU, but the monitor may not like the scan rate. It's very similar to a CGA-style monitor, BTW. An Amiga colour monitor should work well (Philips CM8833 or equivalent). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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Acorn BBC Micros

by Roger＠Sinasohn.com

One of the advantages of a web site -- you get tips like this: >From: Crispin Boylan <viewtronix(a)easynet.co.uk> >To: roger(a)sinasohn.com >Subject: Your Computer Collection > >Hi > >Love the site, great to see someone preserving computing history :) > >I live in the UK, and I noticed you don't have our best Micro in your >collection - The Acorn BBC Micro Model B! This is a real charmer, a bit >like the Apple II really, I don't believe it sold well in the states >though due to the aforementioned puter. If you want to put one in your >collection, I know a site selling them: > >http://www.karoo.co.uk/8bs/8bsad.htm >These are really good and refurbished, ?30 excluding postage to foreign >countries, but I know you will get a good deal if you buy one. > >Hope this helps you! > >Cheers. >Cris. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: John Ruschmeyer [mailto:jruschme@hiway1.exit109.com] > There was also, however, a 286 version of the Model 30 which came out a > little later. (I'll let the IBM experts come up with the model#.) "Model 30/286", strangely enough :) Kai

27 years, 6 months

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Spring Cleaning - Revisited

by Anthony.Dellett＠Staples.com

>Just to inject a little levity... > >$30 > >Epson HX-20 - Brand new, never used. Works great. >Excuse me, but if it's never been used, how do you know it worksgreat? :-) >(reminds me of an actual classified ad - > "Parachute, used once, never opened, small stain. - $100") Hahahaha! Sorry. I turned it on once to make sure it worked, put it back in the carrying case, and never touched it again :) Tony

27 years, 6 months

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PDP11 training troubleshooting

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Were you give (or allowed) a KM11 maintenance card? For those who've not >seen one, it's a board (acutally 2 boards...) that you stick in special >slot in some DEC machines. It's got 28 lights and 4 switches on it. In >the 11/45 it'll let you single-step the microcode (or even the clock >sequencer), display flag signals, etc. You can get the uPC on the panel, >of course. I actually have one of those boards with the unibus signal overlay. It also plugs into a connector on one of the control boards in an RX01 drive. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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Spring Cleaning - UPDATE

by Anthony.Dellett＠Staples.com

I have removed stuff that is sold or is pending sale. $10 plus shipping, the RAM cards alone are worth $10 :) Atari 800 (not working, parts?) $30 Atari 1050 Disk Drive (SIO cable included) $30 Atari 1050 Disk Drive (SIO cable included) $30 Commodore 64 (complete in box) $30 Commodore 1541 Disk Drive (in box, works, grey model) $10 Commodore 1541 Disk Drive (in box, dont work, white model) $25 Commodore 1541 II Disk Drive (complete in box) $35 Commodore 128 (complete in box) $600 IMSAI 8080 With: 8080 Processor Card (IMSAI) SIO4 (Godbout w/docs) RAM64 (Godbout w/docs) PIO8 (IMSAI) (it works, it needs a DPST toggle switch (whomever owned it before me moved power off the front panel to a toggle switch in back, it broke recently) or you can move the power back to the front panel.) $40 Kaypro I (incl. boot disk) $40 Kaypro II (incl. boot disk, this has a third party RTC upgrade in it, it needs new batteries) $40 Kaypro IV (incl. boot disk) Make offer NorthStar Horizon (not working, The cards are in pretty good shape but the disk drives are shot and the power supply needs restoration) $200 NorthStar Advantage (Works perfectly, comes with Graphic CP/M 2.2) $20 Osborne I (not working, good for parts. Might actually be repairable. Has the modem upgrade) $30 Sanyo CP/M System (with software, cute little all-in-one system) $30 TI-99/4A Computer (beige model, in box) $60 TRS-80 Model III (with some software) $150 8" SS/SD Dual Drive Subsystem (ICOM, it's a really nice subsystem) $50 "Fat" Macintosh (Mac 512K, works great, in original box with original packing) $20 CoCo 2 (Works peachy) Buyers pay shipping charges FOB Lawrence, Massachusetts. I'm willing to pay parts of shipping on larger items. Whatever isn't spoken for here by next monday (11/9) will be posted on Ebay. Thanks Tony

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by franke＠sbs.de

>> I wish I could forget the Cassiopeia; I don't know if Windows CE is >> significant out of dozens of other OSs but I think that's a good bet. > Come on, it's Microsoft. The first version of anything from Microsoft is > collectible. (I'm hoping that I can collect the last version of Microsoft > software some day soon.) First version yes, especialy when it is a gigantic flop like Windows for Pen Computing :) But when it comes to be a success - or at least it is not floping, I think there is no urgend need to find it. And until now, CE seams to stay as a Me To product (After the Newton retreat the Pilot is just the standard pen device). Gruss Hans P.S.: I'm still looking for a Cristal Newt (MP120 in clear case), and a _reasonable_ priced eMate (And of course any hard and software around the Newt, especialy development tools etc). -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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