- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> ROM and FFT ROM (I don't have that one). There are two connectors on the >> top back of the 4051. I don't know what they're for except that one has a >> note not to connect the joy stick unless the machine is off, so I assume >> that's what it's for. I think the other is for a printer. > > Guessing... > > One is for an analogue _potentiometer_ joyustick. This is like a CoCo > joystick, not the variable resistor one on a PC. I have the pinout. Interestingly, although the joystick is mentioned in the Tek manuals, Tek hadn't heard of it when I spoke to them (this was an engineer who had actually worked on 4050 series machines, btw). Similarly, the manuals don't admit the existence of the joystick fire button but you can connect it and it does work. The potentiometers on my PC joystick (to which I added a new connector, and which I rewired so that you actually get at both ends of the pot) are too high resistance at about 200k ohms each. 1k to 10k is a more suitable value. I keep meaning to add a buffer amplifier... Philip.

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Rescue Needed!!

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I've been talking with a guy who says he has 2 or 3 DECmates and a 3B2 600 with manuals, terminals and some printers. Their company is moving and they need to get the stuff out of their storage area. They won't "neither move the equipment nor incur any financial penalty like packing, shipping" and someone has to come by and pick it up. It is located in Pacoima, Calif. Depending on the size of the system, I'd sorta like to have the 3B2, but it is a DECmate that I'm really interested in. If anyone is in that area and can arrange to pick up this hardware and would ship me at least one of the DECmates I'd be happy to cover shipping and part of your expenses in picking up the systems. Drop me a line if you can help out. Oh, these have to be out by Dec. 4th or it's off to the land fill. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 5 months

2
2
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Decals disappearing?

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Sometimes decals don't last as long as we would like. How can you replace them? I picked this up from the Heathkit list: >From: "Ed Santavicca" <santavic(a)ct.picker.com> >Subject: [HeathKit] dry-transfers >I finally found it!! It wasnt posted on the list at all. A co-worker >found it in the Digi-Key catalog, and told me about it several months ago. >(the mind goes 1st) Its a product made by DynaArt Designs and is called >the toner transfer system For $27.95 they supply 10 transfer sheets. It >can make full color decals too. This is their info. > >DynaArt Designs >3535 Stillmeadow Lane >Lancaster, California 93536-6624 >Phone: (805) 943-4746 >FAX: (805) 943-3776 > >Digi-Key has a web site with an online catalog. >http://www.digikey.com/ Digi-Key's part numbers are: TTS-5-ND (5 sheets per pack) $14.95 TTS-10-ND (10 sheets per pack) $27.95 These are intented to transfer pc layouts to copper clad boards and the tranfers are etch resistant, but the ad says: "Also (detailed instructions) show how to make full color decals for any application". Just use any laser printer or photocopier. (Sheet are 8 1/2" x 11") Iron on to the surface, and soak in water to remove the paper. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely

by hhacker＠gte.net

I have to agree with this sentiment. I have used the IBM keyboard since the days of the 2741 (an APL terminal) and the selectric typewriters of the day. Never has another keyboard manufacturer produced so nice a feel (action, for the musical crowd) to the touch of my hand. I really like the Microsoft natural keyboard, with but one reservation - the action of the key switches (I like the elite much less than the full sized model). William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net <jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 4:07 PM Subject: Re: Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:48:54 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely Don't tell me to swap for new $10 keyboard either! I touchtype all the time and I have not found one that does similar job as this bowing spring technologies in IBM keyboards.

27 years, 5 months

4
4
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New Q-bus toy, needs IDd...

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi all, ---------- > From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: RE: New Q-bus toy, needs IDd... > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 1:16 PM > > Webster was an Australian company that made many Q-bus and a few Unibus > DEC-compatible options. Here in North America, they were frequently > relabeled with the "Aviv", "DSD", "Sigma", "Qualogy", and a few > other trademarks. Strangely enough, "Wombat", the Webster MSCP > config utility, was never renamed :-). Even if they tried, Webster's > chief software designer left some Easter Eggs behind that'll pop > up his name from the Wombat menu! Speaking of aviv, i have an unibus scsi controller from aviv here, but no docu. Anybody can help ? Board is a: AW-20-1326-2A thanks, emanuel

27 years, 5 months

1
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New Q-bus toy, needs IDd...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Ohhh, so if I shove this in, boot 2.9BSD, it should find this as >a DZ-11? (I'm pretty sure it thinks I'm supposed to have a DZ...) Absolutely, if the vector and CSR's match. (I *think* you can change these in /etc/dtab under 2.9, if you need too.) Tim.

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Call for final Elf99 design input

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> > o Dual TIL 311 hex latching displays accessible as output port 4 >> > when in run mode. >> >> Have you considered, say, a small GAL-type device driving standard >> 7-segment or 5x7 displays instead? > >Not a GAL. I want to avoid any non-popcorn parts beyond RAM, CPU and >big I/O chips. I would _consider_ using the same BCD-to-7-segment >decoder that was in the Elf-II; it properly displays A-F if fed $A through $F. How would you feel about a GAL that was programmed to replace the original part - with the same pinout? Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)

27 years, 5 months

2
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New Q-bus toy, needs IDd...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>[It's a DZV11 clone] >OK. What's a DZV11? A 4-port async MUX. (This is getting circular, isn't it? I suspect I misunderstand your real question!) The Webster (and other) clones give you 8 lines, but all the DEC software deals with this well because a DZ11 (the Unibus version) has 8 lines. Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Call for final Elf99 design input

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> o Dual TIL 311 hex latching displays accessible as output port 4 > when in run mode. Have you considered, say, a small GAL-type device driving standard 7-segment or 5x7 displays instead? I just checked Jameco's web site and it appears that the TIL 311's they sell (at $12 each) may indeed be "production-line" parts still being made new by Ligitek. If so, this is a Good Thing! Tim.

27 years, 5 months

2
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New Q-bus toy, needs IDd...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Got a new Q-bus toy - It's a MUX. > I need to know what it is, and what it's compatible with. > The label on the A-S baggie says "AVIV 8-port MUX, Q-BUS". > It appears to have the model # "SDZV11/03", this is written on the PCB. > The distribution panel has "Webster Electronics" written on it. > Any ideas? This is - surprise! - a clone of the DEC DZV11. Sometimes part numbers are your friends! Webster was an Australian company that made many Q-bus and a few Unibus DEC-compatible options. Here in North America, they were frequently relabeled with the "Aviv", "DSD", "Sigma", "Qualogy", and a few other trademarks. Strangely enough, "Wombat", the Webster MSCP config utility, was never renamed :-). Even if they tried, Webster's chief software designer left some Easter Eggs behind that'll pop up his name from the Wombat menu! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

2
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New Q-bus toy, needs IDd...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Got a new Q-bus toy - It's a MUX. I need to know what it is, and what it's compatible with. The label on the A-S baggie says "AVIV 8-port MUX, Q-BUS". It appears to have the model # "SDZV11/03", this is written on the PCB. The distribution panel has "Webster Electronics" written on it. Any ideas? -------

27 years, 5 months

1
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In search of: CCI Power 6/32 Tahoe

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

A subject of much discussion on the PUPS (see http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/ - the home page of the PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society ) mailing list has been the CCI Power 6/32, aka the "Tahoe", which lent its name to a 4.3BSD release in the late 80's. Does anyone know if any such systems are still in existence? On the net? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

1
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T1K's & TRS80 Model 1's in need of rescue

by gary.katz＠csun.edu

You know you've reached adulthood when your parents decide they're going to move and they no longer want to be the free long-term storage area for their children. Since the move is happening in NJ and I'm in CA in a small CA-style house with no basement, the TRS80's have to go. If there is someone in the NJ area interested in the following, let me know via EMAIL & we'll arrange for a pickup date/time. To a good home: 3 TRS80 Model 1 CPU's one has a RS lower case mod, Level II ROM, numeric keypad one has an "other" lower case mod. Level II ROM, no keypad one has no lower case mod but has keypad 2 or 3 E/I with 32K, one has RS doubler, another has percom (I think) 4 R/S 5.25" drives R/S Vox Box (pretty sure it still works) R/S Voice Synthesizer (pretty sure it doesn't work well) TRS80 Line Printer 7 Tons of software Tandy 1000 (TL, I think -- 80286 in an 8bit M/Board; 768K RAM; 40MB IDE) Tandy CGA Monitor Needs to be gone ASAP! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Gary S. Katz, Ph.D. 326 Sierra Tower Assistant Professor (818) 677-2964 office Dept. of Psychology (818) 677-2827 dept California State University - Northridge (818) 677-2829 fax 18111 Nordhoff Street Northridge, CA 91330 http://www.csun.edu/~gk45683 ----------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 5 months

1
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Friden Flexowriter

by cfandt＠netsync.net

At 22:53 11/23/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: >And you thought your VT100 was cool? Through an elaborate move involving >a network of collectors across the country, I finally ended up with a >Flexowriter in my office! > > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/friden/ > >What's a Flexowriter, you ask? Before the KSR33 TTY was invented around >1962, this was the way you got data into and out of your PDP-1, PB-250, >etc. > >I really don't know much about it (it's just PDP-1 bait), but I'm >interested in any docs, software (see below), or emotional outbursts >from veteran users. > >My vague understanding of how this was used comes from a few scraps of web >info. I believe it was used as a letter quality printer and paper tape >punch with computers. It also has a paper tape reader. I think the >reader could be interfaced to a computer, but I think it could also be >used standalone! (Some?) flexowriters could accept programs to generate >form letters and the like -- the first word processor! I have a Flexowriter setting in the basement of our old house. Let me tell you a bit about another common use for Flexowriters. At my past place of employment, the one I have once was used as a numerical control programming terminal. It stood alone, no electrical communications connection to the machine tool for which a program was being written. An ASCII paper tape was punched containing the programmed moves and machining functions (standard "M" and "G" functions plus others) which was carried over to the numerically controlled machine tool, loaded and started. A couple of the NC controllers we had were the old General Electric Century Mark II models which controlled large Burgmaster NC drilling machines. They were a mid-50's design using stepper switches and bunches of hermetically-sealed relays and a two-axis thyratron servo table positioning system. A Fiden tape reader was used to read the tape several characters at a time according to the next move or function the machine was required to make while the program was run. AGHHH! Those Mark II's were ornery and hard to troubleshoot with all their relay logic and the tight timings thereof. A rather small two pound PLC would handle the programming and controlling on those Burgmasters today in conjunction with a new, solid state servo drive system. I still have the Mark II printsets which are by now, I would guess, *really* rare. Back in the 50's, 60's and to the mid-70's paper tape was a very typical way a machine tool program would be generated and run. A 'real' computer was far too expensive especially for small shops back in the old days to run a typical machine tool. Huge companies may have had some sort of single computer to act as a program generating and storage device which was somehow linked to a large group of NC machines but I personally know of no real examples. But I would wager IBM, DEC, General Electric and others had some involvement with this either in their own large factories or as a contractor to others. Microprocessor-based CNC (CNC = Computer Numerical Control) controls began to replace the old NC controls around the mid-70's. Removeable media, semiconductor memory and especially the revolutionary microprocessor helped drive this change from paper tape NC systems. The Fridens and Teletype ASR33s (which were another popular paper tape generating device) slowly began to be scrapped. Back in the early 80's, ACU-RITE Inc. took the NC machines and this Flexowriter out of service. Most of the machines were sold to others and the Flexowriter tossed into warehouse storage. For a couple of machines we kept I designed the mechanical and electrical interfaces for installation of a couple of those new-fangled CNC boxes which one could buy separately (Bendix Dynapaths were used) and built a couple of simple CNC Bridgeport mills for the company's machine shop. During that time, I rescued the Flexowriter out of a dumpster after I discovered that warehouse storage area was being cleaned out. I also grabbed my DG Nova 1200 and other DG items before it was supposed hit the dumpster later that week! :-) > >Corrections and pointers to Friden stuff welcomed. Well, this Flexowriter is not something that was in my collecting interest but I kept it all these years. Therefore, I never actively kept an eye open for Friden docs, parts or such stuff. It is on topic for our group so I will pay better attention for Flexowriter items, docs and pointers. Now I must get rid of the Flexowriter as I do not have enough room to keep it (just ask Hans F. and his wife who have seen only a small part of my collection :-)). FREE to a good home. It's heavy! It should be restorable or at least good for parts. Otherwise, and I'm not joking, it will have to end up at the scrap yard to continue its original destination from 15 years ago :( Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 5 months

1
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Audio CD Software/data was: Re: Recent Finds & Thoughts

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

Marvin wrote: >Having *finally* gotten a CD-R unit hooked up, it occurred to >me that perhaps recording all the cassette data tapes to CD >would be a worthwhile thing to do. Has anyone else tried this? >I would think it would be trivial to hook up a stereo to >computers, and thus load both data and programs. Yes - been there. It is highly recommended, especially if you can read the program/data from a cassette, and then make a fresh new 'write' from the computer, as if you were going to make another cassette, but to the CD-R audio input - as opposed to simply copying the audio from the cassette directy to CD with all the tape hiss, drop outs & speed fluctuations. I've found fresh new 'tapeless' audio recordings to be very useable and reliable. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

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Tek 4051 was Re: Weekend finds!

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> OK Thanks. Are the BASIC commands on the 4052 the same as the 4051? > FWIW the 4052s use similar plug in ROMs. One of the manuals that I have > shows the same function ROM for the 4052. It uses the same case but a > different board with more ROM ICs on it. Yes. My BASIC manuals cover 4051, 4052 and 4054. Some commands have a note in the manual that they're not available on the 4051 without an appropriate ROM cartridge. >>The 4097 is very rare AFAIK. I've never before heard of one surviving. >>All I have for it is some Tek marketing bumf printed out from microfilm.. > > I'm like to see the marketing info. Where did you find it? > > I've been cleaning the 4051 up today. Man, is it filthy! There are dirt > dobber nests all through it. I cleaned up one of the 4097s and checked the > power supply. It spun up but one voltage is slightly high. I have to fix > that. When I was researching the talk I gave at the VCF (in fact the previous version that I gave to the Cambridge University Computer Preservation Society) I wrote to Tek UK asking for information. They sent me an envelope full of microfiches: marketing stuff tracking practically the whole history of the 4050 series, an almost complete set of "Tekniques", the 4050 series newsletter, and a couple of technical things. Give me a snail mail address (privately) and I'll post you a copy (technically I have permission to copy if "promoting Tektronix") > Here's a rough list of what I have: Tek 4051 mod 1,22 (what is a mod No idea, I'm afraid. > 1,22?). A 4097 8" disk drive with a single drive. It has option 031. I > don't know what that is unless it's the connector for the second drive. It > has an HP-IB port for the controller and a 40 conductor ribbon cable that > connects to the other 4097. The second 4097 has two 8" disk drives and no > controller port just a connector for the 40 conductor cable. There is a The 4097 could control up to 3 drives. You seem to have the full configuration, controller + 1 drive in one box, 2 drives in a second box. Disks are SSDD I think (must look that up). Links to 4051 by GPIB of course. My 4052 now loads and saves on my Commie 8050 disk drive... > Data Communications Interface on the back of the 4051, it has two ROM > sockets in it and a RS-232 port on the bottom. There is also a ROM > Expansion box (4051E01). It has 8 ROM sockets and a cable with a dummy ROM > that plugs into one of the ROM sockets on the 4051. I have five ROMs in > it; File Manager, Editor, Signal Processing, Service Pack and Binary > Program Loader. I'm supposed to get some manuals from the seller. I took a I think file manager may be needed for the 4097. (Are you sure it's a 4097? I have a vague memory of it having been 4907). Binary program loader is one of the things that's included on the 4052 motherboard ROMs. I don't understand the editor but I may have a manual if I dig. Screen editing of BASIC (on a storage display) is better than many non-storage user interfaces of the day even without the Editor ROM. > quick look at them and there was a 4097 manual. I didn't look at the > others. I did pick up manuals from someone else for the Signal Processing > ROM and FFT ROM (I don't have that one). There are two connectors on the I have the FFT ROM for the 4052 but it doesn't work (bit rot?) :-( > top back of the 4051. I don't know what they're for except that one has a > note not to connect the joy stick unless the machine is off, so I assume > that's what it's for. I think the other is for a printer. Tony beat me to it again. See his post and my reply thereto. Philip.

27 years, 5 months

1
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Lisa 2/10

by rvclark＠pacbell.net

Just ran accross this address in some notes about the Lisa. I have a Lisa 2/10 which I bought new in about 1983. The board inside says 1983 also. I have the original disks and manuals also. I used it up until about six months ago. At that time it developed a Vertical hold problem. It has a narrow light line accross the tube. Their is no control for vertical hold externaly on the computer. Other than that, which is probably fixable by a pro, it has always worked fine. It has Mac Works XL Emulation Software and Write and Draw software. I was very happy with it all these years. I now use a Mac IIsi with all the modern stuff added to it. Anyone interested in it for a price?

27 years, 5 months

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unsubscribe

by bgreen＠northwoodgeo.com

UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Barry Green Web Manager Northwood Geoscience www.northwoodgeo.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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No subject

by dogas＠leading.net

SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP

27 years, 5 months

1
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Blue Thunder CP/M card for PC

by bobstek＠ix.netcom.com

Does anyone have any info on a Z-80 card for the PC called Blue Thunder? In particular docs and software would be most appreciated, but at this pont ANY info would be great! Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

27 years, 5 months

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Friden Flexowriter

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Those Fridens are heavy. The logistics of getting it across country must have been difficult. They were electo-mechanical monsters. I'm sure it will be fun. When I was in High School I was the photographer for the local weekly newspaper, the Columbia Press. While they had a Linotype (hot lead) the owners were experimenting with using the Fridens to set justified type, i.e., newspaper columns. First you would punch the type into the paper tape with no carriage returns. This would generate a long strip of tape full of holes. This could be edited with a razor blade, cut and tape, yes they make transparent tape with holes in it. You would then mount the tape in the reader. Set the line width and spacing by adjusting the machine. Switch it over to "Justify" and run the tape. With luck the Friden would generate a column of text, flush right and left. Usually it took a fair amount of setup and several trials before you were ready to print out the final text on a special coated paper. Of course the biggest disadvantage was these machines only came with one font. If you wanted type one point larger (say 9 Pt. instead of 8 Pt.) you had to get another expensive machine in the larger point face. They worked for justified boilerplate. The old machines the Columbia Press had were always breaking down. This was 1963. Cold type was in it's infancy. Most shops in Astoria were setting type on a Linograph or Intertype with hot lead. You then took a galley proof and pasted that up. Then the copy went to the process camera to have a negative made, so you could burn a printing plate. Now it is computer direct to printing plate. Process cameras are Dodos. As a printer I love it; as a photographer I am sad to see the passing. Fridens didn't last long, too expensive and too much down time. By the time I laws in collage they had gotten an AM CompSet Typesetter that was much easier to run, in large part because the CompSets were computerized. Thanks for all your help. Paxton PS I am interested in all process cameras that are being surpluses out, the larger the more interesting. Please email me at whoagiii(a)aol.com if you know of any surplus Process Cameras.

27 years, 5 months

1
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UTek V for 88K CPU?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi all, Clutching at straws here I know, but following the recent postings regarding Tektronix hardware and UTek I thought I'd give it a shot again... Does anyone happen to have a copy of UTek V for an 88k CPU? (specifically, for an XD88/10 Unix workstation?). I tried Tek a few years back but they said they wouldn't support it any more, and the total running number of XD88's in the world seems to reach the grand total of 0! I didn't think that anything else other than the XD88 ran UTek, but as it does I may be able to get hold of enough data to get a basic system running - maybe any 88k distribution of UTek was generic enough to get my system to boot with console only (my guess is that the graphics hardware's sufficiently complex to need it's own tape for install). The disk in my XD88 was pretty dead as far as the machine was concerned when I got it, in that there's a lot of filesystem errors, but if I could get another disk running in parallel to boot off I *might* be able to reconstruct a full system (failing being able to find the 'proper' install tapes!). Some kind soul put a basic root system from the original UTek install media onto an ftp site for me a few years ago (several MB on a 1200baud modem was a pain!) - I just got the file from the remote site before it - and the person who put it there for me - disappeared off the face of the earth, at which point I found there was an error in my local copy and it wouldn't extract - arghghgh! cheers for any help or info, Jules

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>In DEC systems there are three things I can say, Supported, Unsupported >and unimplementable. Of the three the last one is least common. An >example of the last one is connecting a DHV11 to a pdt11/150. It's >doable but, near unimplementable do to the lack of Qbus. The more common >situation is unsupported, IE: DEC didn't consider it marketable or test >it exactly that way. Two RDxx disks in a ba123 is an example. The yabut >is that a TK50 eats as much power as a RDxx. The assumption then was >one disk and floppy or tape for backup/installs. Later on external TK50s That also worked for software... if we had the hardware to test a specific configuration, it was supported. If we didn't have the hardware to test, it was unsupported. If it happened to work, it was 'latent support'. If it didn't work, *it was unsupported*... :-) Of course, we did our best at making things work even if they weren't supported (and made use of 'latent support' a number of times)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply >can't handle it according to the manuals. I have a BA23-based home system with an RD54, and RD33 and an RX33. I don't know if it stresses the power supply the way two RD5x series drives would, but I know it also works solidly... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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your secret area

by gpine＠pfx.net

Richard, I'm not sure if you intended to include the username/password information on how to get into your "secret" area on the classic computers web site or not, but the information was not included in your message. I tried a couple of ideas but didn't find one that worked. Gerald

27 years, 5 months

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Weekend finds!

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Tony Duell wrote: >> I don't know much about the Tektronix, except that it's a very old 4051 >> Graphics computer. I got two Tek 4097 8" disk drive cabinets with it. One > > Now, I'm digging into the depths of my brain, so much of this is going to > be wrong... > > The 4051 was supposed to be Tektronix's answer to the DEC GT40 - in other > words an intellegent vector graphics terminal. It's sort-of like a > standard Tektronix storage display terminal (you know, the 4000-series) > with a 6800 board in it. The later 4052 used a set of 2901s to make a > fast 6800-a-like with extra instructions (I kid you not). > > There's a reasonable BASIC in ROM - and somewhere I have the quickref > card. I think, though that Tektronix can still supply copies of some of > the manuals for these machines. Be warned they're expensive, though. > > Anyway, it's quite a find. Tekky 405x machines are not at all common. Tony, you zog. It was my job to say all that. I have a Tek 4052 with plenty of manuals. If you need help with anything on the software side, I'm happy to look things up. The 4097 is very rare AFAIK. I've never before heard of one surviving. All I have for it is some Tek marketing bumf printed out from microfilm.. Anyway, I like the 4050 series and want to keep it alive, so I will help all I can... Philip.

27 years, 5 months

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Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3834 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981123/2084f38f/at…

27 years, 5 months

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Hidden link on my site

by rcini＠msn.com

FYI: For those who want to access the ClassicCmp "private" area on my ClassicCmp web site, it is now accessible through a hidden link; you know, to keep the general riff raff out :-) In the Contents bar on the left side, in my copyright notice, you'll find the link. BTY, I also posted the table of contents for the Altair article. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 5 months

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Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>< The keyboard should now work. Mine does -- I typed this on it. > >You forgot one step in the disassembly... > > NOTE where each key is removed from. > > Otherwise > > I typed this on it. > > becomes > > Y riowd kida no wq, > > ;) > >Allison > Allison you must type like I do - semi hunt and peck. I know some people that it would not bother for the "normal" typewriter keys. They would not even notice. Dan

27 years, 5 months

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DEC VT102

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< (I was thinking of VMS -- which I thought was pretty strict. You mentio < that it was tolerant. That must mean that my emulators are even worse t < I thought. Or perhaps the editors are stricter than the os itself.) Ah, yes and editors other than EDT. Some apps are real hard on compatability. Also under VMS run "help set term/device" as VMS supports a large load of devices. < If I were writing a spec, I would try to cover all the cases. Actually the pathological case is something you don't document, your not supposed to do that or expect an particular behavour or it would be documented. Convoluted, yep. < One of the admins here mentioned that we have a big secret binder of VT1 < stuff. I haven't seen it yet. Was the firmware source code ever availa < That would be neat to look at. Firmware may have been available but meaningless. The tech manual and the then user manual (5/8" thick!) were more than enough to write apps for it. < If the two sets of circuitry ran in parallel, that explains how a rather < CPU could provide characters and graphics at the same time. :) has nothing to do with cpu speed. It was a artifact of the VT100 having the ability to mix RS170 video and data along with needing a bit map for the graphics stuff that a character teminal would not have. < Unfortunately, I have two specific programs I want to see. One of them < DECRITE from DECUS (a ReGIS text editor -- runs on VMS). The other is E < (The Wargame of the Century), version 5.0 (?) which is on magica.update. Eewww DECRITE, gag. Never checked out the games. < Even DEC's terminal emulator for DECWindows (which I would *hope* would < very good, and actually does seem to be very complete) barfs at DECRITE < I think I need a VT125 for that. decwin doe work for regis if set up right. some apps will squawk as if they interrogate terminal type they get the wrong thing back if set worng. Under DECwin you have to create a DECTERM session as a vt125. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Thanks for the info. I thought it was because of the power requirements on spin-up of the disks since they are not sequenced. It is nice to know that it does work reliably however for the rare times I might want to. Thanks Dan >< Two full-height hard drives in a single BA23 was never officially suppor >< (at least for the various microPDP-11 configurations), because >< they refused to support a base box sold without removable media. > >Correct. The group in DEC that balked at that was Field Service as a >microvax1/II was "...not adaquately diagnosable without removable media". >Marketing VIA CSSE was forced to consider that an unsupportable >configuration though electronically solid and desireable if used for >LAVC member or with external removable media. > >Allison >

27 years, 5 months

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loop back test...

by dogas＠leading.net

please disregard...

27 years, 5 months

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My adolescent fantasies FINALLY fulfilled!

by A_Finney＠wfi-inc.com

No, not some strange thing with my 8th grade English teacher and a bucket of whipped cream... I finally got an ATR8000. Man, I dreamed of having one of these every night, reading the SWP brochure until it literally fell apart. Every time I went to buy one on ePay, someone would come along and push the price *way* beyond what I wanted to pay. Anyway, I just got one for $60 (I know many of you think that's still ridiculously high, but I've been waiting ~12 years for one of these things) that came with a giant stack of disks, manuals, and cables. The usual CP/M stuff; Wordstar, Supercalc, etc. Unfortunately, I'm at work and have to wait a few hours before I can try it out. Well, at least now I will stop harrassing everyone who posts to the list about picking one of these things up for $5... Aaron

27 years, 5 months

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Heathkit H11

by museum＠techniche.com

Marvin, Great lead! I just got ahold of John and purchase this equipment >from him. Thanks for the heads up. Jon ============================================ >I received this message a while ago, and when I contacted him, he was not >interested in shipping this stuff so it would need to be picked up. Perhaps >someone back there can see if he is still interested in selling the stuff. >I am just quoting the original message along with his first response. > > >Subject: Old Heath Kit Computer that used paper tapes >Date: Mon, Oct 19, 1998 16:21 EDT >From: <A HREF="aol://3548:W1uki">W1uki</A> >Message-id: <19981019162105.26749.00000032(a)ng150.aol.com> > >best offer over $50 > ( w1uki(a)aol.com ) > > >Hello Marvin, >] Nice hearing from another Ham . > Just checked to what i have on the Heath Kit. > H9 Video Terminal > H10 Paper System > H11 Digital Computer > Some Heath users Group Books > Could not find any of the paper tapes at this time > w1uki(a)aol.com >

27 years, 5 months

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DEC VT102

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< - The manual is usually ambiguous, or doesn't tell you < what happens in all cases under all conditions. I have Ever read the Vt100 technical manual? < a copy of the VT220 programmer's pocket guide, and I've seen < the VT100 and VT220 user's manuals, and this is true of them By time vt220 started manuals were being trimmed but there was a tech manual for that one too. < - The manual doesn't tell you about undocumented behavior. < If you were writing a complete emulator, you would want all < the undocumented behavior. (e.g., the VT100 "turn on the bell < and never turn it off" sequence) Otherwise, you might want some < of it. Generally UDOCO is outside spec. forexample a line of 123 chars and what happens when you switch to Dwide Dheight. Then again why get mad if the pathological cases are handled wrong when the basic stuff is poor at best? To me while in EDT hitting Gold Command and getting the wrong action on a PC terminal emulator is broken! or hitting ctrlZ to send an exit to an app gets the procomm help screen. Or worse mapping those keys to something unresonable for a vt220 (LK201/401 is similar to PC keyboard) is bizzare. < - The manual doesn't tell you how the terminal is implemented. < How many pixels on the screen? How are video attributes stored? < This isn't usually applicable to behavior, but it could be < (in some rare circumstance which I don't know about). And it is < important if you want to write a complete emulator. Considering the prints for Vt100, technical specs and all were available NONE of those were secret! If all else fails you could crank up the Vheight and Hwidth and count them! < It's easy to claim that your emulator emulates a particular terminal. T < vtWeb plug-in supposedly emulates VT125. Well, sheesh, they simply see < VT125 as a slight variation on the VT100, while my reason for getting a < emulator is to see ReGIS graphics. (No, the plug-in doesn't do ReGIS. < still looking for a VT125 or Gigi emulator!) But only a description wil < me find out for certain. Vt125 is a big variation. The board to do it was a seperate 8085 and ran it's video in parallel with VT100 base logic (yes chars and graphics). The GIGI was obscure and uncommon enough to not be a viable reference. most of the later terminals (Vt330/340) did however do regis. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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11/34A/RK07 not booting. Help wanted

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Greetings again folks, Well, I've been working at checking out the bunch of DEC machines for some brief times that I can take from working on the two houses. This time it's the PDP-11/34A system. I was able to get it checked out and lit up okay. It has the Programmers Console (KY11-LB) and an M9312 Bootstrap/Terminator module plus RK611 and UDA50 drive interfaces. Switch 2 is OFF on the 9312 therefore, registers printout onscreen and the system prompt (@ in this case) appears after CNTL/BOOT keys are simultaneously pressed. Seems okay so far. However, the 11/34-11/34A user's manual says the prompt should be a '$' (?). The system was said to have two RK07's which of course aree controlled by the RK611. There was no mention of what hung on the UDA50. I surmised the RA60 that was in the pile of equipment was the device as there's an old handwritten note taped to the front giving instructions as to what channel (A or B) to attach to an 11/34A. Both drive types figure okay as the appropriate boot ROMs are in positions 1 and 2, respectively, on the 9312. Seems okay again so far except the RA60 doesn't spinup. I cabled everything up except for just one RK07 is hooked up. I took the terminator off the #1 RK and put it on the #0 device. The 'A' switch is depressed, 'B' is not as this is not a dual-access drive system. Upon trying to boot the thing I am instructed to simply type DM onto the terminal and the 11/34A will boot off the RK07 #0. Well, nothing happens. The RK 'Ready' light is on but the 'A' light stays off and no other action occurs except for a new register printout is displayed onscreen and the '@' prompt is back. Simply stated: Now what? The non-running RA60 should not cause this I feel. The documents I have are an old version of the PDP-11/34 system user's manual (does have early 11/34A stuff in there but several things don't match to what should be expected), an M9312 tech manual, RK611 controller tech manual, UDA50 User Guide, RK07 operators manual, an RA60 disk drive user guide, an 11/34 *non-A* central processor maint. manual (no 11/34*A* manual of this type in my collection, just the 11/34A Users Manual), printsets for most of this hardware *except* for the RK07s and RA60, plus other related docs. So, I have a little bit to go from but no direction to aim. Any thoughts? Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 5 months

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DEC VT102

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< differences, etc), and incomplete specs. No spec is ever complete. Th It must have been complete enough for dec to make the vt100. ;) Specs are usually complete, my expereince it understanding them is incomplete. It pays to read then spec once or twice completely. < hardest part of emulating another machine is testing all of the possibl < cases (sometimes unbounded) and emulating the incorrect behavior as wel < as the correct. True, but then testing if done at two levels bounded basic functional and then edge of the envelope tends to make it far more manageable. After all if broken at the basic level then its far to broke. < Having said that, I don't recall having many problems using VT100 < emulators with VMS as long as you SET TERM/NOWRAP and maybe another < setting which now eludes me. VMS is a) tolerent, b) uses a minimal subset. Some apps can be badly broken by poor emulations. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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DEC VT102

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Unfortunately, I have two specific programs I want to see. One of them is >DECRITE from DECUS (a ReGIS text editor -- runs on VMS). The other is Empire >(The Wargame of the Century), version 5.0 (?) which is on magica.update.uu.se. >As for Empire, the source (and binaries?) were actually commercial, I think. I've been playing Empire under VMS for over a decade now (now on an Alpha), and I see no indication that it's commercial at the comments at the top of the source: C PROGRAM EMPIRE C C This program is a war game simulation for video terminals. C The game was originally written outside of Digital, probably a university. C This version of the game was made runnable on Digital Equipment VAX/VMS C FORTRAN by conversion from the TOPS-10/20 sources available around fall 1979. C After debugging it, numerous changes have been made. C C Now that you are the proud owner of the source and you are all gung ho C to do things right, there are a few things you should be aware of. C There are many magic numbers controlling how many different kinds of C units can exist and how many of each, so it is unfortunately not easy C to add another unit type. Also, "slight changes" to the way the units C work will typically have a fairly devastating affect on the computers C strategy. If you are interested in really hacking this, there is a plenty C of room for enhanced computer strategy. As you'll see, there are some C very good debugging tools tucked inside, and you will soon discover weak C points and bugs, that up until you, have remained problems (all the previous C programmers got lazy or lost interest). Finally, please be careful with C the version number and identification at start up to avoid confusion of C ongoing versions with private copies. If you make a change don't remove C the major version id, but rather add something like (V4.0 site.1 20-JUL-80). > And the source I've seen is for the previous version. The new version has > two modes (VT125 and Gigi) neither of which works very well. I think the code > uses nonstandard ReGIS, since (as a magica person told me) even a real VT340 > won't work with the program. Yep, you need a real Gigi. But the source is reasonably commented and I'm sure that you could produce V5.1 which'll work on a VT340 :-) What is a little confusing is that my sources identify themselves as 4.7, 18-Oct-1981, while the documents are for V5.0. They seem to be completely consistent with each other, though. Very likely, like Super Star Trek, there were hundreds of localized versions at various DEC sites and colleges/universities. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

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Southern California TRW Swapmeet

by jpl15＠netcom.com

For any interested collectors and/or gear-heads in the SoCal area this upcoming weekend: the TRW swapmeet will be on Saturday, the 28th November, from 7:30 to 11:30 AM. It is held at the TRW El Segundo plant, corner of Aviation and Marine avenues.... Take 405 (San Diego) FWY to Rosecrans Ave, exit and go West about 1 mile to Aviation (Under the railroad bridge), turn left (South) on Aviation about 1/4 mile.. the parking lots will be on your right, the Meet itself is in the southern-most lots along Marine Ave.. you can't possibly miss it. NOTICE: I will be happy to coordinate/host an apre-swap lunch-type get together of anyone who wants to meet me there this Saturday.. e-mail me privately and we'll hook up. Marvin will be there, possibly Aaron C. Finney... anyone else...? Might be fun! Otherwise, I'll get all the Good Stuff and then brag about it. ;} Cheers John

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< In a BA23, you use the same cables (a 2nd set obviously) for the < second DUA1: drive as the first drive. DON'T FORGET TO < SET THE DUA1: DRIVE AS DS4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The cables Correct. < The I/O distribution panel in a BA23 allows for 2 hard drives < and is intended for a dual RX50. I have never tried a dual RX33 < in a BA23 on an RQDX3, but I presume it would work. I don't it does if the RQDX3 is the correct rev. < know if the 2nd hard drive must be connected into the READY < and WRITE PROTECT buttons. I have heard that the 2nd < drive can float and that the default is READY and NOT < WRITE PROTECTED. Also correct. I happen to prefer to writelock the disk and make it not ready before power off to avoid the risk of accidental writes(during power up or down). Allison

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< OK, I've heard all the stories about this cable. I suspect I have < a "bad" one in a BA23. How do I get a "good" one? Is there still < a DEC part I can order? Or, do I have to go the the local wrecking < yard and find one? Dave the incorrect (BAD!) cable is one where all the wires are of unequal length. Find one via scrounge or get molex pins and wire and make one. the Correct cable all the leads will be of the same length. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com < >doable but, near unimplementable do to the lack of Qbus. The more comm < >situation is unsupported, IE: DEC didn't consider it marketable or test < >it exactly that way. Two RDxx disks in a ba123 is an example. < < Two RD5x's in a BA123 was definitely a supported configuration, and is < listed in the late-80's DEC catalogs. I meant ba23 not 123. < Two RD3x (half-height) disks in a BA23 is also supported, and indeed is < the reason behind the 6-button BA23 front panel. Many 11/53 < configurations were shipped from the factory this way. It was never a validated MicroVAX configuration though I've built three over the years. < Two full-height hard drives in a single BA23 was never officially suppor < (at least for the various microPDP-11 configurations), because < they refused to support a base box sold without removable media. Correct. The group in DEC that balked at that was Field Service as a microvax1/II was "...not adaquately diagnosable without removable media". Marketing VIA CSSE was forced to consider that an unsupportable configuration though electronically solid and desireable if used for LAVC member or with external removable media. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>< I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply >< can't handle it according to the manuals. > >Ran one for years with two RD54s, DEQNA, 13mb, DHV11, TK50 controller, >LPV11, RQDX3. The description is so you know it was a full box. Insure >the internal power cable is good and the ECOd one. > >Allison I agree on the cable. It is amazing how it will smoke. I just have never been willing to try putting 2 drives in. ( I have several BA123's for test beds and operating systems) I find them to be much easier on the hands. Dan

27 years, 5 months

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Old 386 and 486 pc's

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The LE I have has a built in hard drive (20 Mb), which I had to deep < format once (involves going to DEBUG, and typing in an address or < something like that). I haven't really used it in about 2 years or so, b < as far as I know it still works. Model E I believe, I added a WD1002/st251 it runs and runs. Format from Debug is C800:5. I have a utility called HDinit for that too. < My interest in collecting these particular computers (PC Clones) has les < to do with their collectability (unlike collecting old 8-bit machines), < and more to do with getting a few folks started in computing, but withou < spending a lot of cash . .. Did a bit of that. < That was in reference to Infoworld, which got a lot of angry letters fo < gushing over the LE clones while being much more critical of "innovative < machines such as the Amiga. This was in late 1985 to mid 1986, when the < Amiga first came out. Clonism i'm sure. If it wasn't PC it was a abomination. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I agree on the cable. It is amazing how it will smoke. I just have nev < been willing to try putting 2 drives in. ( I have several BA123's for te < beds and operating systems) I find them to be much easier on the hands < Dan In DEC systems there are three things I can say, Supported, Unsupported and unimplementable. Of the three the last one is least common. An example of the last one is connecting a DHV11 to a pdt11/150. It's doable but, near unimplementable do to the lack of Qbus. The more common situation is unsupported, IE: DEC didn't consider it marketable or test it exactly that way. Two RDxx disks in a ba123 is an example. The yabut is that a TK50 eats as much power as a RDxx. The assumption then was one disk and floppy or tape for backup/installs. Later on external TK50s or network backups made that need lower. Disk space however, was always premium as network files systems (VIA eithernet or LAVC) are slow compared to local disk. So if you observe configuration rules (power, bus fanout and dma/interrupt grants) then two disk are very doable and the PS is plenty heafty to do it. It's pretty hard to maxout a BA23 without running out of slots in the box! Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Weekend finds!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went to the Tampa hamfest this weekend and ran into Phil Clayton. I also came home with two new toys. A HP 9835A and a LOADED Tektronix 4051! Unfortunately both of these need some serious restoration! The CRT in the HP is really messed up. It has all kinds of small spots inside the glass of the CRT except for a spot about 3" across in the center. I haven't tried it yet but I doubt that I'll be able to read anything except directly in the center of the screen. I also got a HP 13272 5 1/4" disk drive with it. I don't know much about the Tektronix, except that it's a very old 4051 Graphics computer. I got two Tek 4097 8" disk drive cabinets with it. One cabinet contains a single drive and the other contains two drives. The 4051 has two sockets in the back for plug in ROMs but also I got a separate box that plugs into the 4051 and holds 10 plug in ROMs. I think it's got 6 ROMs in it including the service ROM. While I was at the hamfest I was lucky enough to find brand new manuals for two of the ROMs. One is the Signal Processing ROM I and the other is the Signal Processing ROM II (FFT). I'm SUPPOSED to get a stack of manuals for the system too. I left behind the plotter that went with the system. It was a monsterous Tektronix flat bed job that must have measured 5 x 6 FEET!!! Joe

27 years, 5 months

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FW: Rainbow 100 manuals, some sfw, free to good home

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Found on Usenet: You want Rainbow stuff, get hold of the guy directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:43:59 -0600, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote: >>From: dxyzzywillcox(a)prairienet.org (David Willcox) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: Rainbow 100 manuals, some sfw, free to good home >>Message-ID: <dxyzzywillcox-2311980844000001(a)slip-53.prairienet.org> >>X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4 >>Lines: 18 >>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:43:59 -0600 >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.17.3.185 >>X-Complaints-To: newsmgr(a)prairienet.org >>X-Trace: firefly 911832176 192.17.3.185 (Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:42:56 CDT) >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:42:56 CDT >>Organization: Prairienet -- Your Community Network for East Central Illinois >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!spamkiller1.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.174.5.49!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!firefly!dxyzzywillcox >> >>I have a number of DEC Rainbow 100 manuals and a few disks. The lot is >>free to anyone who will pay for shipping. I have no idea how usable any of >>the disks are. >> >>I've got: >> - FinalWord manual and disks (This is a semi-decent word processor) >> - Rainbow 100 System Kit and Installation Instructions. >> - Multiplan 86 (includes disk) >> - CP/M 86/80 Operating System 2.0 (manual only) 2 copies >> - MS-DOS Operating System 2.05 (manual only) >> - MBasic-86 (includes disk) >> - AutoSort-86 (includes disk) >> - CP/M 86/80 1.0 Technical Documentation >> >>If you're interested, please reply via email. I don't normally read this group. >>-- >>David Willcox >>Remove the "xyzzy" to get my real email address. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 5 months

1
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Old 386 and 486 pc's

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Those and maybe some of the PS/2's as well. (On a related note, anyone < remember Leading Edge computers and how the media (Infoworld particularl < was falling all over these clones?) I happen to have a LE model D. It was a well done XT (not even turbo) that I still sometimes use for several reasons. Video(mono/herc), printer, 360kfloppy and one serial port hardware were all on the board with 640k of ram. Adding a HDC and a half height drive and a modem made it my first PC for the net. It's upsides; complete and compact (about 2/3 the width of the standard xt case) systems as XTs go. It isn't SMT construction for filled with PALs so its repairable. The PS and cooling is good. It's also one of the few XT class machine my Intel Inboard386 works properly in. Downside; it's a 4.77mhz XT so if speed is important... The model D was standard with 640k, Amber or white monitor and two floppies. The system has a switch on the back for CGA/herc color. I can't comment on the media WRT to PCs as it was the first PC I owned (got it in '92 when its owner retired it) so up to that point Z80, PDP11, VAX were only in my field of view. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Correction -It is R7 that needs the jumper. Dan >Hi: > >There's a quick mod that needs to be done to a non-DEC RD53, ie a >Micropolis 1325. There's a place on the large circuit board for "R6" that >has nothing in that place. Solder a wire between the two R6 terminals and >you have a "real" RD53. > >Kevin > > >-- >Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD >mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca >

27 years, 5 months

1
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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power suppl < >can't handle it according to the manuals. Not true. it wasn't a supported configuration though. < Now that's something I didn't think of. Thank you, that could have bee < very embarrassing. < This particular MVII has a single RD54 and a TK50. < I don't have any docs, so can one of the decsperts confirm this please? For those with specs the TK50/RDxx config was a support config and the TK50 is a power hog and is equivelent to a RDxx power wise. Allison

27 years, 5 months

1
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Tek Computer

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

John, what does this thing look like, what ports does it have etc? Is it an actual workstation, or just an X Terminal? cheers Jules >

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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Zenith Z-100s rescued & CP/M-85

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Rescued a pair of Zenith Z-100s this weekend. Both an All-In-One model and a Low-Profile model along with boxes of doc, parts and software. They were sitting out in the garage of an old friend whom I hadn't seen for years. When I told him I collected computers he told me that he wouldn't pay me any more than $10 to haul them off. :-) They're pretty dirty but otherwise seem to be in great shape. These are cool little dual processor (8088/8085) S-100 systems. Also picked up boxes of old software manuals and lots of old 5.25" disks. Many are originals, others are just blanks. The moral? Be sure and tell everyone you know about your strange hobby, never know what might turn up. Now, in the User Manual, they talk about CP/M-85. I've heard of CP/M-80, CP/M-86 and CP/M-68K but not 85. I'd guess it is a version specific to the 8085? Didn't know they made it. Anyone know anything about it? ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Daniel T. Burrows <dburrows(a)netpath.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 23 November 1998 13:53 Subject: Re: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II? >I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply >can't handle it according to the manuals. Now that's something I didn't think of. Thank you, that could have been very embarrassing. This particular MVII has a single RD54 and a TK50. I don't have any docs, so can one of the decsperts confirm this please? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 5 months

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Exidy Site update

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Work is continuing on my Exidy site. So far I've placed the _Guided_Tour_ booklet which came with the Sorcerer as well as the first 3 chapters of the _Standard_BASIC_ manual. The other chapters will be following as I complete them. I've also placed some PROM dumps sent to me by Pete Turnbull. He has also sent some postscript and asm listings which I'll have up there shortly. Lots more to go. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 5 months

2
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DEC VT102

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 23 November 1998 9:17 Subject: RE: DEC VT102 >Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have >yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct >VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have >very similar key layouts. They are universally broken. Have to agree, I have tried most everything from crappy freeware/shareware to ridiculously overpriced NFS/X/whatever suites. All suck somewhat, in different ways. If it's a windoze 3 or 95 attempt, the suction increases by orders of magnitude. Nothing beats a real DEC VT. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

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FIRST MACINTOSH HARD DRIVE?

by van＠wired.com

Hi there. Can anybody tell me what the first external hard drive for a Macintosh was? I am trying desperately to remember who made it and how much memory it had and how much it cost. I remember that it was very big and very expensive. Any insight would be tremendously appreciated... xoxo van ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - - - Phase Shifter - - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.8424 Trans- ] ]]] (A) futura lounge 415.647.4523 (B) ? (C) SELECT GAME mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com designer wired digital 660 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 usa ........................................................................ van(a)wired.com van(a)futuraworld.com pingpong(a)spy.net vanburnham(a)aol.com

27 years, 5 months

8
9
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DEC VT102

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The best emulation for a vt I've found is decterm. Stands to reason, I < After that is Procomm, after that is the emulator that came with pathwor Procomm is pretty good. It's advantage is the parts I consider the most broken are the keyboard and that configurable. I still use V1.0! I consider the scripting language it's greatest asset. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply < can't handle it according to the manuals. Ran one for years with two RD54s, DEQNA, 13mb, DHV11, TK50 controller, LPV11, RQDX3. The description is so you know it was a full box. Insure the internal power cable is good and the ECOd one. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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DEC VT102

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >control codes. As your VT102 doesn't do Tek 4014, this isn't < >applicable. < < Understood. Vt100s do have line drawing character set, so if you had the right translator... graphics. Vt125 however does have sixel mode (bit graphics). Then again a vt340 does color and most of the DEC graphics modes including Tek. Allison

27 years, 5 months

1
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DEC VT102

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have found some real terminals that are very close clones of the VT100 < I picked up a rather nice Trend terminal with an LCD display that clones < the VT100 almost perfectly, even the setup modes are similar. True to a point. Long story follows. A friend of mine was the manager of the Terminal and printers QA group. They tested product to DEC STDs and also previous products. IE: if a vt100 did it right or wrong they knew it and the next generation would do that too in vt100 mode. VERY FEW VT100 closed were better than 95% exact. None of the bugs they had were subtle, others glaring. Vt100 was the most widely emulated, cloned and flat out copied terminal made. It's easy to say that as there were copies of vt100s, the vt220 also emulated vt100, the vt320, 330, 340 and 420 and a bunch of other along the way. then there were the clones of each one those. All one ever needed to do a good clone/emulation of vt100 is the user manual and a vt100 or even better the technical manual. Worse yet the ANSI terminal spec. Oh, the vt100 was one of the first ANSI terminals that also did private escapes (dec private) correctly. < Time to drive up there and use a VT100 keyboard as a LART until they < finally learn how to count function keys. It's a very durable keyboard but it would still ruin it to no effect. < Knowing VT100s, they'd probably work when they arrived ;-) I've seen boxes that test that theory. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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DEC VT102

by kurtkilgor＠geocities.com

Why do you think that is? It shouldn't be too difficult to duplicate a VT100; after all, the specs are available. I do agree with you, though. Every communications program I've used always messes up on _something_. While one might work with BBS A but give weird characters with B, the other one is the other way around, even if they both use VT100, or ANSI, or whatever the case might be. I think it may partially be the fault of the BBS program, but when connecting to a DEC system, this is of course not an issue. >Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have >yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct >VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have >very similar key layouts. They are universally broken. >Allison >

27 years, 5 months

6
5
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DEC VT102

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Why do you think that is? It shouldn't be too difficult to duplicate a >VT100; after all, the specs are available. Yeah - that's what all the emulator writers think, too :-). > I do agree with you, though. >Every communications program I've used always messes up on _something_. >While one might work with BBS A but give weird characters with B, the other >one is the other way around, even if they both use VT100, or ANSI, or >whatever the case might be. This is sort-of a "creeping freaturitis". Some emulator supports some non-standard command/control string, the BBS writers use it and include this string in their display. Another emulator - or the real terminal - makes garbage on the screen when presented with this code. Call up the folks who wrote the BBS, it'll turn out they never saw the real terminal. > I think it may partially be the fault of the BBS >program, but when connecting to a DEC system, this is of course not an >issue. And other times the emulator doesn't do everything that it's supposed to! Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)

27 years, 5 months

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looking for data...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have a mfm 3.5" drive I just got and would like data on it. it is a WD10i, also marked Fuji Electric FK301 (also 508100625). Looks to be '84-85 vintage from date codes. Size, geometry info is desired. Allison

27 years, 5 months

3
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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply can't handle it according to the manuals. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 4:42 PM Subject: Re: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II? >Daniel T. Burrows wrote: > The RD53's were Micropolis 1325's. If you can find a 1325 you need to > install a jumper in R7 location on the main board to make it look like an > RD53. Also install jumper blocks on W1, W2, and DS3. > Dan Jerome Fine replies: Almost correct, as far as I know, but if you do so, you will likely lose DUA0: if it is not WRITE PROTECTED when you boot. IF YOU ARE USING TWO HARD DRIVES IN A BA23 BOX, YOU MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SET THE SECOND DRIVE AS DS4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last time (and only) I set both drives on DS3, I lost the format on both and could not recover DU0: - it was on a PDP-11, but I doubt that the DS3 / DS4 setting requirements are different on a uVAX II. Note that the settings on a BA123 with the special I/O distribution board in slot 13 are very different in that 4 hard drives are allowed of you don't have any floppies AND all hard drives are set for DS3! > -----Original Message----- > From: Computer Room Internet Cafe <netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 5:36 AM > Subject: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II? > > >Hi all, > > > >Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 286. > >Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506. > >Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently has > >a single RD53, as a second drive? > >If so, is there deep magic involved in the install? > >I seem to recall seeing something about needing special > >software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a > >non DEC drive. > >The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4 > > > >TIA > > > >Geoff Roberts > >Computer Room Internet Cafe > >Port Pirie > >South Australia. > >netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au > > On a PDP-11, there are DEC formatting programs, but I don't know what you use on a VAX/VMS? I suggest that you take great care. I also suggest that you either backup DUA0: Also, the format for an RD53 on an RQDX2 is incompatible with the format on an RQDX3. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict (Almost no one wants Y2K Patches for any version of RT-11)

27 years, 5 months

1
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DEC VT102

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I have a VT 102. The only info I can find thru searches is that it is very >similar to the VT 100 and has some sort of paging capability like a >Tektroniks 4014 terminal. Not exactly - the VT102 features were usually called "local editing". The 102 also came, by default, with 132-column capability and a few other bells and whistles that were options on the VT100. I'm not sure what you mean by "paging capability"... The VT132 added block-mode capability, ala IBM mainframe terminals. > Also, there were a lot of pointers to terminal >emulators that have VT 102 compatibility. No help from them either. You didn't find Rick Shuford's archive of terminal info, then :-). The DEC-Specific page starts at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/dec.html and the more generic terminal-cell page starts at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal_index.html Rick's pages are a truly wonderful model of what web pages should be. Many good indices to useful information, remarkably little self- congratulatory graphics! >Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I >have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)? VMS will work quite happily with the VT102. What exactly do you want to make it do? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

3
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DEC VT102

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> <begin quote> > The xterm program is a terminal emulator for the X Window System. It > The VT102 and Tektronix 4014 terminals each have their own window so that > you can edit text in one > and look at graphics in the other at the same time. > <end quote> This means that xterm has two distinct windows: VT102 and Tek 4014. It'll switch between them when receiving the right control codes. >>You didn't find Rick Shuford's archive of terminal info, then :-). >No, dang it! Here we go again, like you were questioning a few days ago >Tim: why don't some things get indexed? Life isn't fair. Many search engines tend to be heavily oriented towards flashy, glitzy sites that overload on META tags, have little in the way of actual information, but lots of useless pictures. (Sorry if I just insulted 97% of the web sites in existence, but it's true.) Some search sites pride themselves at removing web pages from their index if the information is more than a few weeks old. (Hotbot, in particular, though others are now adopting this strategy in response to hotbot's heavy TV advertising.) >>>Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I >>>have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)? >>VMS will work quite happily with the VT102. What exactly do you want >>to make it do? >Obviously, I would need some sort of way to use the windowing feature of >the 102. I think that you're talking about the xterm auto-switching between Tek 4014 window and VT102 window when receiving the appropriate control codes. As your VT102 doesn't do Tek 4014, this isn't applicable. (For those who haven't been using X-windows for the past decade, "xterm" is a commonly used terminal emulator for X-windows.) One gripe about terminal emulators: *never ever* assume that because an emulator supports an escape code, feature, or function key, that the item being emulated supports it. An example from an article of mine that Rick thought was relevant enough to include in his archive (http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/emulation_how_to_news.txt): The worst offender I've found is a commercial editor that requires VT100 users to hit F5 through F10 to access certain abilities that are rather necessary - such as exiting the editor. Despite repeated phone calls to the company, I've yet to convince them that a VT100 does NOT have F5 through F10 function keys. They claim that because some popular Windows-based emulators implement these function keys in VT100 mode, a real VT100 must as well. Arrggghhh!!!! I'm tempted to deliver a half-dozen true VT100's to their corporate offices via catapult. > From the Neosoft site mentioned in the last msg to Zane, xterm >would have to be used but it won't work on VMS as it doesn't run the X >windowing system. Gees, that's news to me. I've been running X-windows, and all the big X-windows applications, under VMS for most of a decade now. > However, am I correct in assuming >DECwindows under VMS is the ticket here? Yep. DECWindows = X-windows+Motif. Don't get too wrapped up in names :-) When you do manage to get it up and going, head straight for one of the big OpenVMS freeware sites (for example, http://www.decus.org/libcatalog/description_html/vs0185.html ) and have some fun! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

3
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ID these DEC floppy disks?

by cfandt＠netsync.net

In that heap of goodies I'm keeping from that DEC Haul back in the summer I found a DEC 5.25" floppy disk package containing five floppies of the following: BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 All evidently are diagnostic tests for some sort of DEC machine which uses a 5.25" floppy drive. Could anyone identify which machine given the above info? Thanks, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 28 < Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506. It's mfm so it can be connected if the jumpers are set right. No I don't have that info for 1335, only 1325s. < Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently h < a single RD53, as a second drive? likely. < If so, is there deep magic involved in the install? two things, it will have to be LLformatted (you need standalone utility) and the drives jumpers ahve to be set right. < I seem to recall seeing something about needing special < software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a < non DEC drive. The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4 Yes a standalone formatter. Allison

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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DEC VT102

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< VT100 users to hit F5 through F10 to access certain abilities < that are rather necessary - such as exiting the editor. Despite < repeated phone calls to the company, I've yet to convince them that < a VT100 does NOT have F5 through F10 function keys. They claim that < because some popular Windows-based emulators implement these function < keys in VT100 mode, a real VT100 must as well. Arrggghhh!!!! I'm My answer to them is, if I jump off a bridge will you too? They may have confused Vt100 with Vt220(and later) as they do have the function keys. What PCs do/did should never count as valid. < tempted to deliver a half-dozen true VT100's to their corporate < offices via catapult. Tim, Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have very similar key layouts. They are universally broken. My local solution is the use of RealTerminal (TM) IE: a in the flesh vt100/102, H19, Vt320, VT340 or vt1200. I know they are honest. Allison

27 years, 5 months

3
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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Jerome Fine > RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict > (Almost no one wants Y2K Patches for any version of RT-11) I don't know about "patches", but Compaq and Mentec already have orders for several hundred copies of RT-11 5.7, the Y2K compliant version, which began shipping late last week. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

1
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DEC VT102

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have > yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct > VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have > very similar key layouts. They are universally broken. The vast majority of emulators out there (both freeware and commercial) are badly broken. The closest I've found is: 1. MS-DOS Kermit from http://www.columbia.edu/~kermit/ (unfortunately, this page seems to be broken this weekend; but you can always ftp from ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/ 2. DEC LK250 keyboard (VT-220-type key layout, plugs into a PC-clone.) 3. The LK250 config file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit. There are some failings of the above combination, but it works fine with me for 99.99% of the stuff I have to do. A very excellent emulator test is Dickey's "vttest"; see ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vttest/ for details. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

1
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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

The RD53's were Micropolis 1325's. If you can find a 1325 you need to install a jumper in R7 location on the main board to make it look like an RD53. Also install jumper blocks on W1, W2, and DS3. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Computer Room Internet Cafe <netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 5:36 AM Subject: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II? >Hi all, > >Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 286. >Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506. >Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently has >a single RD53, as a second drive? >If so, is there deep magic involved in the install? >I seem to recall seeing something about needing special >software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a >non DEC drive. >The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4 > >TIA > >Geoff Roberts >Computer Room Internet Cafe >Port Pirie >South Australia. >netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au >

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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fetching files from classiccmp list server

by DaveyGF＠aol.com

I am having no success getting the files from the list server. Here are the commands I am issuing. I address these commands to listproc(a)u.washington.edu with no subject heading. First I did: index classiccmp This gives me a list of all the files available.. This works. Then I did: get classiccmp classiccmp.log9706 For some reason i never get the file sent to me.. this has worked for me in the past.

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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DEC VT102

by cfandt＠netsync.net

I have a VT 102. The only info I can find thru searches is that it is very similar to the VT 100 and has some sort of paging capability like a Tektroniks 4014 terminal. Also, there were a lot of pointers to terminal emulators that have VT 102 compatibility. No help from them either. Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)? Thanks for the help! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 5 months

2
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Recent Finds & Thoughts

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

Marvin wrote: >Having *finally* gotten a CD-R unit hooked up, it occurred to me that >perhaps recording all the cassette data tapes to CD would be a worthwhile >thing to do. Has anyone else tried this? I would think it would be trivial >to hook up a stereo to computers, and thus load both data and programs. You mean record the audio on to a different track? Yes, it certainly is possible. There was a commercial device out for the Sinclair Spectrum in 1990 that included 30 games on one CD. I think it was made by Codemasters. I've only seen it once at a car boot sale but it appeared to be a basic to be a basic CD player with some leads to plug into the tape port.

27 years, 5 months

1
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looking for data...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >it is a WD10i, also marked Fuji Electric FK301 (also 508100625). Look < <Micro House doesn't give jumper settings for it, but it does list the f < < <4 heads, 306 cylinders, 17 sect/track, 10 MB formatted capacity. There are few jumpers and they are drive select and the like. I was more curious than anything else. It's a working drive! I pulled it from a YATUXT (Yet Another TUrbo XT). Since I have a few of these I pulled the drives, ISA boards and any loose components, the rest are junk. Allison

27 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Token ring... (reprise)

by afritz＠delphid.ml.org

I seem to be once again in need of 16mb ISA token ring cards. I don't suppose someone out there has any they're selling real cheap/free? IBM-branded ISA preferable... must be capable of 16mb. Also, if anyone has any 486 EISA motherboards that are capable of fitting in modern mid-tower and desktop cases, I might be interested. (The only one's I've got (a couple of huge ALR's with the CPU and cache on daughtercards) are waaay to large to fit into anything but the larger tower cases...which I don't have any extra of either!) thanks, af --- Adam Fritzler { afritz(a)delphid.ml.org , afritz(a)iname.com} http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ "Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were." -- Chicago Reader, 15 Oct 1982

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

Hi all, Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 286. Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506. Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently has a single RD53, as a second drive? If so, is there deep magic involved in the install? I seem to recall seeing something about needing special software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a non DEC drive. The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4 TIA Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

2
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XT-2190 OEM manual wanted

by dburrows＠netpath.net

They have it on their Faxback service 800-262-9867 then 3 for the faxback service. Dan >Does anyone have a spare copy of the Maxtor XT-2190 manual, or is anyone >willing to make me a photocopy of it? A Maxtor XT-1140 manual would be >almost as good. > >Thanks! >Eric >

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 16, 5:39, Doug Spence wrote: > On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > The 2114 is getting hard to find now. A few companies still have them in > > stock, but AFAIK it's no longer in production. > > Ack! I need a bunch of these to get a PET 2001 going (all of the 6550s > are bad, and I was told that the 2114 is the same part?) and a VIC 3K RAM > Expander fixed. They're NOT the same. I can't find a pinout, but they're a different (physical) size and ISTR they use different voltages as well. MPS6550s will be very hard to find as they were never second-sourced by anyone, as far as I know. They're 22-pin (0.4" wide instead of 0.3") 4096-bit (1024 x 4) SRAMs. 2114's are 18-pin 4096-bit (1024 x 4) SRAMs. Even MOS Technology didn't make them for very long, which is why only the earliest PETs used them. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 5 months

3
2
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PDP 11/15 for adoption

by jpl15＠netcom.com

First, I would like to register my *profound* gratitude to all the folks who 'rescued' this list.. thank you for your dedication and time. My Old Computer hobby would be much the poorer were it not for classiccmp. Thanks again! :) Second: I have an 11/15 and two expansion boxes. The 11/15 itself is front-panel, backplane, and power supply only... it never had cards. One of the expansion units is *full* of old "G" series and a few "M" series flip-chip style small cards. The second expansion box is empty. The CPU front panel is cosmetically good, nothing is damaged.. it could use some soap and elbow grease, though. I have never had power on to them... electrically unknown therefore. These items are outside of my area of interest, and I need to free up some rack space. They are available without charge to the individual who is fool^H^H^H^H adventureous enough to come and get them.. all-up weight is about three hundred pounds and I'm not even going to *consider* shipping them... not that the excersise wouldn't be beneficial... ;}. I am in Los Angeles, CA. Will also trade for Kennedy 9300 or DEC TU16 magtape and formatter cards.... if in reasonable distance of LA, I can provide transport for this scenario. Cheers John

27 years, 5 months

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16-bit 8088/8086?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I thought the PC/XT-286 was basically an AT motherboard in an XT case. At least that's what I remember from a previous discussion about the XT-286. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: David C. Jenner <djenner(a)halcyon.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 5:52 PM Subject: Re: 16-bit 8088/8086? >Sounds like you are describing almost exactly the IBM PC/XT286. >

27 years, 5 months

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16-bit 8088/8086?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< My idea was either an 8088 or an 8086 with a 16-bit AT-style bus. (keep < mind that it's a theoretical idea, and not an actual project -- yet) The 8086 can be used onthe 16bit ISA bus, its a 16 bit cpu with a 16bit bus and 20 address lines. That will do. < -Would it be possible to have CPU cache with an 8088 or 8086? Not needed as the fastest 8086(V30) is 12mhz (there may be faster) and most moden Dram can keep up with that making cache unnecessary. Cache is a was to make a fast ram keep up with a really fast cpu. < - I'd use the 8 MHz 8086 or 8088. Why not the 12mhz parts. Also the 8086 has a small performance advantage. < If this would work at all, what performance would come out of it? Would < perform like an XT, a 286, a TRS-80, or what? It would be a turboXT. IT's been done, check on the design of the IBM PS2/25 or 30. PS2/m30 was a 8086/8mhz, used 30 pin simms, it was ISA8bit (the performance difference was small there). Two cpus require far more complex software and operating system to have any value and the improvement will not be 2x, more like 20%, though multitasking may bo slightly better. < My final question is another slight disagreement with my friend. He sa < that it would be possible to piggyback (like IBM did with the early AT R < chips) a second 8-MHz 8088 onto the existing 8088 in an XT to make it 1 < MHz. I told him that I didn't think it would work. Your right. It would likely not work at all as both cpus are not guarenteed to be in sync and if one gets out of sync they will crash each other. < What exactly would happen if this was done? Would it run at 8 MHz? Wou < it run at 16 MHz, or something in-between? Would it speed up, slow down < melt down, or just fry everything? Crash. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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XT-2190 OEM manual wanted

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Does anyone have a spare copy of the Maxtor XT-2190 manual, or is anyone willing to make me a photocopy of it? A Maxtor XT-1140 manual would be almost as good. Thanks! Eric

27 years, 5 months

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Old 386 and 486 pc's

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:40:06 EST SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com writes: >harrumph; typical clueless non-computer type that thinks any old >computer is >worth plenty. there's a guy at an established flea market that tries >to get >the same price out of old machines. i bought a northgate 386/20 from a >guy at >work and even got the great northgate keyboard too for only $20! <SNIP> Hah! That's nothing! I snarfed a couple of 386's from work for *NOTHING*. I asked the sysadmin if these were left over from the company sale. "Yep! Nobody wants 'em. Take 'em!" One was an Everex with a mondo-scarce RLL drive. . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 5 months

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16-bit 8088/8086?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Could it be possible? I was talking with a friend of mine, and we somehow got on the topic of what would be a cool "custom computer" to have. My idea was either an 8088 or an 8086 with a 16-bit AT-style bus. (keep in mind that it's a theoretical idea, and not an actual project -- yet) -It would probably involve using dual processors, (and probably dual math processors) to make up for the 16-bits. -It would probably have 1 MB RAM, with 30-pin expansion slots. -Would it be possible to have CPU cache with an 8088 or 8086? -I would probably try to use the basic layout from a PC/AT motherboard, and hand wire everything (so I don't have to fool around with etching chemicals). - I'd use the 8 MHz 8086 or 8088. If this would work at all, what performance would come out of it? Would it perform like an XT, a 286, a TRS-80, or what? My final question is another slight disagreement with my friend. He says that it would be possible to piggyback (like IBM did with the early AT RAM chips) a second 8-MHz 8088 onto the existing 8088 in an XT to make it 16 MHz. I told him that I didn't think it would work. What exactly would happen if this was done? Would it run at 8 MHz? Would it run at 16 MHz, or something in-between? Would it speed up, slow down, melt down, or just fry everything? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 5 months

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Digital Group software, docs?

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Does anyone have copies of software or manuals for equipment from The Digital Group? I'd be interested in most anything at all for it, but particularly in PHIMON software, and in manuals and schematics. Thanks! Eric

27 years, 5 months

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11/34A/RK07 not booting. Help wanted

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > >We all make mistakes (or at least I do :-)). It is worth checking thi < > >Why DEC didn't use polarised connectors here is a mystery to me... < > < > This is indeed a bone-headed thing DEC did. I bet a lot of field engin < > were cussing about that. Must have been two different design departmen < > between RK's and RL's (Allison. . . comments?) DEC Field circus created CSSE (Customer Services Support Engineering) to keep an eye on the design, testing and manufacturing processes at the product level to engineer out things like that. That was back in the 70s, by 1991 they put themselves out of business as they had "trained" engineering and manufacturing well. < Yes. On every DEC drive I own (and I guess most others), track 0 is at < the outside edge of the disk and the highest track is closest to the < spindle. Allison/Tim will now post a list of exceptions :-) I'm sure there are exceptions but not many. The oddballs I know of are most fixed head disks and of course drums. Speaking of drums, has anyone seen any out there? Allison

27 years, 5 months

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FW: Front panel schematics

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

If someone can help this fellow with front-panel schematics, as noted in his message, please contact him directly. Thanks! -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: mlaman(a)home.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Looking for schematics (or pointers to them) for PDP 11/70 and PDP 11/40 Front Panels Message-ID: <365681d0.44505453@news> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:05:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.0.163.129 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:05:44 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: blushng.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!xfer.kren.ne.kr!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.sdca.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi, I looking for schematics for PDP 11/70 and PDP 11/40 Front Panels. Pointers to where I might find them are helpful too. Thanks in advance, Mike -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 5 months

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Old 386 and 486 pc's

by kurtkilgor＠geocities.com

I agree that he is somewhat clueless, but I don't agree that it's for that reason. Many people feel bad that they got an expensive computer only recently, and are forced to sell it for next to nothing. They want some kind of return on it. I guess it's too bad. One simply has to explain to these people that it simply doesn't work this way with computers. PCs and XTs are usually under $20, though I've seen some selling over $50, for the same reason. Then again, if the computer is very clean and has the original manuals, it may be worth it to a collector. >harrumph; typical clueless non-computer type that thinks any old computer is >worth plenty. there's a guy at an established flea market that tries to get >> They had a no-name 386 clone, complete with color monitor, in working >> condition for $175, and a 486, no monitor, unknown condition (most likely >> working though) for $250. >> >> Seemed very high to me, as I've picked up working 8080 PC's and XT's for >> under $20. . . >> >> (They did also have an old Mac 128, but I didn't inquire about it, as >> those are not exactly rare either) >>

27 years, 5 months

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NEC multisync 3D

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Isn't an XGA plug the same as a VGA plug? At least it is on the IBM XGA monitor that I have. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 5:33 PM Subject: NEC multisync 3D >there was some previous discussion about nec multisync monitors. believe it or >not, i actually found one tossed in the partking lot of an auto parts store. ><!> unfortunately, it wont power on. made in 1990 and has XGA plug. anybody >want it for free or need parts from it? it has a lot of controls behind a flip >down door. no burn-in on the tube amazingly. > >david >

27 years, 5 months

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Secure e-mail

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: In order to manage the user name + password aspect of the CCL private directory, I'd like to communicate using secure e-mail. To download my certificate, visit http://www.verisign.com/securemail/download.html and follow the directions. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 5 months

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Classic Magazine Articles/Other postings

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Tonight, I posted the following: - Altair ComputerNotes: 7/77 and 9/77, all four parts Also, my ISP was able to setup authentication for a "private" file area. This area will be one which houses documents intended for the CCL group only, i.e., files for whatever reason, are not to be shared with the whole Internet. My idea is to keep docs whose copyright is still active but for which we were not able to obtain explicit permission to use. I began posting the P-E Altair article tonight (first of 12 parts). Technical reference guides from IBM will also go in there. This information is too valuable to CCL members to languish unpublished. Anyway, those interested in the login, please e-mail me privately. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 5 months

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HV Testing (was:Re: Newbie's got a dead 386)

by dburrows＠netpath.net

> >Besides, if I can fly all the way from Birmingham UK to San Jose CA with a >Tektronix 4052 (80 lb) in my baggage... There is the difference I had to learn to travel light enough that I did not check any bags. My record was strating in the Midwest on monday morning and by Teusday evening I had been on both US coasts. > >> The most important thing I was trying to point out with the first item in >> that post is NEVER assume the meter is correct. It will bite you. >Agreed 100% (as Tony would say). In the electricity industry, safety >procedures require you to test an EHT meter on a known good source before >_and after_ the measurement. While that's impractical if you're flying >around with no more test equipment than you can fit in a briefcase, a >useful principle to follow. I try to and had used that meter with no problems on another call the day before. Dan

27 years, 5 months

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11/34A/RK07 not booting. Help wanted

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Yes. On every DEC drive I own (and I guess most others), track 0 is at >the outside edge of the disk and the highest track is closest to the >spindle. Allison/Tim will now post a list of exceptions :-) Only exception I know of is CD-ROM, which doesn't exactly have tracks, but at least block 0 is on the inside and the higher-number blocks are on the outside. >Halt the processor after the failed boot attempt, key in the first >address of the RK611 (I can't remember it, but you have the RK07 user >manual, don't you?) 777440 through 777456. Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)

27 years, 5 months

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Core planes was: [ebay: Antique]

by kip＠nanospace.com

At 09:35 11/20/98 -0500, Chuck wrote: >One of the myth's they always told us was they all had to be >made by hand - there wasn't a machine that could thread the >row/column and sense wires for mass production. Is there any >rumor to this truth? yeahright. In _IBM's Early Computers_ by Bashe et al., you will find elaborate description of machinery developed to automate the production of core planes, complete [IIRC] with pictures. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

27 years, 5 months

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Core planes

by gene＠ehrich.com

I was one of the Industrial Engineers responsible for the production of core planes at the IBM Poughkeepsie plant. The cores were put into a machine that shook them down into a panel that lined them up for the row and column to be inserted by machine. The sense wires were however inserted manually. It was an almost impossible job if you looked at what had to be done but some people (almost all women) had an uncanny knack of doing the job in what seemed to be impossible times and accuracy. Using MTM (methods time measurement) it should have taken them much longer than it actually did. They just had special skills. Gene At 11:46 AM 11/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>made by hand - there wasn't a machine that could thread the gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale

27 years, 5 months

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Hardcard for grabs

by william＠ans.net

I posted the following some time back: <snip> (1) HardCard EZ, and two Conner drives. The HardCard has a big "127" printed on the side (capacity?). No idea if it is good - same with the two "normal" disks (types 2 and 17, for you IDE fans out there). <snip> The person that was to purchase this has done nothing about it, even after several "prods", so I am offering this up again. Best offer over $5 plus shipping. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

27 years, 5 months

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FIRST MACINTOSH HARD DRIVE?

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I once saw an external Mac hard drive with the label 'Apple Crate.' Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: FIRST MACINTOSH HARD DRIVE? Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/20/98 4:38 PM I vaguely remember something called a "MacBottom" (a hard drive above which one placed a Mac computer) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov20.163820.1767.79361; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:38:22 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA23956; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:34:50 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id MAA61338 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:50:24 -0800 Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon(a)smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id MAA21 652 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:50:23 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26004 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:50:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd025965; Fri Nov 20 13:50:18 1998 Message-Id: <Pine.BSI.3.96.981120124929.28136A-100000(a)usr01.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:50:17 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Charles P. Hobbs" <transit(a)primenet.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: FIRST MACINTOSH HARD DRIVE? In-Reply-To: <199811201902.LAA04380(a)oa.ptloma.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 5 months

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Today's haul

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I made another trip to Temple University today to get some more stuff. I picked up the following: - More Byte Magazines: 1983-1987 - Misc Unibus boards to repair my 11/34a, which for some reason will no longer boot. - RK05 disk packs - Roytron Model 528 paper tape something The Roytron thing is interesting. It's a paper tape punch (at least). I have no info on this. It has what appears to be a v.35 connector on the back. It says that it is a 120vac unit, but there is no power cord apparent. Any info appreciated. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 5 months

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