- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 08:09 PM 12/15/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: >Unfortunately, there's little correlation. I routinely spent that or more >on stock certificates, but that doesn't mean I hold them very long. Tony Duell said "Doesn't that rather depend who the people are?", and you say something similar, and I must say I agree - but my point is, unless you know something about the character of these buyers, you don't know whether they're planning on preserving the machine or not. To use my deflated Microsoft millionaire example, that person is perfectly capable of paying $6K for an Altair and then paying someone to insure it's up and running. Is the "Computer rescue squad" concept only good for acquiring machines, or is it for hire to help keep machines alive? If an old machine's ROMs fail while it's being held by a speculator, chances are they'll pay to have it fixed, if the price for a working machine is significantly higher. Overall, I think these (supposed) higher prices are a Good Thing for the preservation of old computers. It means fewer will be scrapped, and more people will know they should be saved, either for their cash value, or for their sentimental value, or both. And again I must emphasize, tales of these inflated sale prices are highly anecdotal and not fact-checked. Perhaps we should sooth our souls by believing these buyers are conscientious instead of uncaring. With the dearth of evidence or direct testimony, we might as well wear rose-colored glasses. >BTW, have you seen my Sol museum? > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/sol/ Hmm, good idea. The unscrupulous could set up fake computer museums, testifying to their good character, placing poor quality but honest photos showing the lovingly restored and maintained machines, and then beg for donations of cash and old computers. >I routinely spent that or more >on stock certificates, but that doesn't mean I hold them very long. You E*Trade speculators, you're destroying the good ol' stock broker lifestyle, playing day trader, denying an honest commission to a starving professional - and I bet you don't even care about the fate of Netscape or AOL or Xoom, do you, as long as you're making a profit? :-) - John

27 years, 4 months

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Xerox

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

Well, I'm afraid I didn't understand your reply about how Star was better than other UIs, Hans (sorry I can't quote the message). I can't see how a UI could really completely obscure the hardware of a machine (I think that's what you meant). What if you need to save to a floppy disk? How do you obscure the physical machine in that? I haven't really looked at smalltalk, but here I have a 1983 issue of Popular Computing that describes it. It shows a sample which sadly makes little sense to an unenlightened one :( Is there a free version of Smalltalk for the PC that you would recommend for learning? How does smalltalk compare to LISP? I've got a book on LISP that I haven't looked through due to lack of time. Also, you said that OS/2 is more OO than others. Which version? I have 2.0 here and not only is it slower than molasses, it's basically the same as Windows 95 in terms of design, implementation, and so on. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 4 months

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OT but free*

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I just got a few 750's in without chargers and the batteries are dead. I would like to get this for my neice if possible. I got the thinkpads for them. I could give you my FEDX, Airborne, or UPS # if that would make things any easier. Please email me off list with your phone # so I can call to discuss. Thanks Dan Burrows 336-376-0468 dburrows(a)netpath.net >I've got an IBM Dock I that works with their Thinkpad laptops (750x series) >that is free to anyone who will pick it up in Sunnyvale CA, $10 + shipping >if you ask me to go down to UPS at this time of year :-) > >--Chuck > >

27 years, 4 months

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"Single instance" machines

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > Subject: Re: "Single instance" machines > > > > And by the way, to catch up with the title - is there any > > > other Commodore B500 around, or a Pascal Microengine ? > > > I hear of more of the P/B500 in europe then here, actually in the U.S. I think > > there are maybe three or so around, since they never were oficially released > > past the late prototype stage (due to one of Commodore's run-ins with the > > FCC). Dunno how many (if any) they sold in europe. > > I never have seen any B500 beside mine, but I know the P500 > story - just the B500 is more like the B128/CBM 600. So no joystick ports, or VIC-II chip? Hmm, from examinging the PCB, I wonder if it is a universal design, cause there are a bunch of unused pads here and there (looks like it could sport 128k, and there was another connector pad (besides the co-processor one), maybe for more RAM? If anyone has a B-128 handy; pop it open, the joyport sockets would be in the far left-hand corner, (if you look from the 'front' of the board) I've been curious about this. :/ 0010111101101010011110000101001 > From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > Subject: Re: "Single instance" machines > > CBM 9000 aka MMF aka SuperPET - still kind of a dream for most > commo collectors (like the 900). Other than the most desired > rare Commodores, the 9000 was a production unit and supported. Also alot of schools (secondary and more so, colleges) bought them. 0001010110101001001001110101001010 Here is a clip from an E-Mail I had received from one of the 900 designers! > >> I worked for Commodore back in then. > > > >Must have been something, Commodore was doing pretty well in the home computer > >wars then. > > It was fun :-) I live in Denmark and we managed to put a C64 under every > other xmas-tree that one year (we assumed that every house had a tree) > > >> I notice you havn't got any of the CBM-900 computers ? > > > >I have never heard of them, I am assuming they are related to the 700 series? > >The only thing I got so far in that line (B/P series) is the P-500, rare in > >itself. Maybe one day I'll get more of those no rush though, I am a frugal > >collector. :) > > The 900 was probably commodores biggest mistake, they canned it you see. > It was a Z8001 based UNIX (Actually Mark Williams "Coherent") workstation > with a BW graphical display (I think it did close to 1M pixels). > > Unfortunately they had to choose between the 900 and the amiga, if they > had stuck to the 900 they would have owned the UNIX workstation market. > > The amiga wasn't bad either mind you. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > /////////////// "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal 000101001010011010100100110 > From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> > Subject: Re: Value > Common classics are hard to come by around here -- the closest thing to > kinda rare I have is (that I know of): > > Trackball for an Atari 5200 (serial #786) > Commodore B-128 (local college garage sale) > 2 Superbrains (local college garage sale; anybody have boot disks???) > Tandy 600 (sent to me by a good friend in California 'cause it didn't work) > > I honestly don't know if these are actually rare... almost everything up > here is rare (to me) and all of this wild, wicked stuff like OSI > Challengers, Ohio Scientific, and who knows what... I don't think they are all that rare, but the B-128 and the Superbrains are probably a couple of the more interesting classic computers...

27 years, 4 months

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RSX-11M site? Was: Re: Emulex doc archive site gone now . . .

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>So, to get to the theme of the revised Subject line, anybody know of a similar >RSX-11M resource online? I'm not sure exactly what you want when you mean "similar", but all the RSX-11 DECUS SIG tapes are online at ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rsx/decu… You'll find the index to each SIG tape there, as well as the outputs of a few useful searches (like a search for all references to the MultiTasker newsletter.) >For that matter, who are the on-list RSX-11 experts (like our Megan is to >RT-11)? If you want to know about industrial process control under RSX-11M, I can point you to a few good resources. Be prepared to pay between $100 and $200/hr for the experts. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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anyone need a C64?

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

How about $25.00 for both. -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 7:54 PM Subject: anyone need a C64? >ive got two i want to sell. one has the standard brown keys, but the other has >white keys instead and a white power supply. the insert/del key is broken off, >but included. the C64 with the normal colours is complete. either one will >come with a power supply. both presumed working, but i have not a video cable >to verify video. make a whimsical offer including shipping from NC. > >david

27 years, 4 months

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OT Netscape help was Re: Neat time-wasters for DEC enthusiasts

by Watzman＠ibm.net

OK, I'm having a problem with the list server. What do I send to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu to get the digest form instead of individual messages ? I'm apparently getting the syntax wrong (I'm trying "Set classiccmp digest") Thanks, Barry Watzman

27 years, 4 months

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SOL feeding frenzy?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/16/98 9:01:17 AM EST, Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de writes: << Doug der Sandl?we. (Sandlion ? I don't know the exact english term. It is a small insect, that digs a hole into sand, like a funnel/crater and waits on below the ground until an ant or similar creature steps into the hole and is traped by the sliding sand :) Gruss Hans >> also called antlion, or doodle-bug down here in the south, LOL.

27 years, 4 months

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Computer paint jobs (was Re: SOL feeding frenzy?)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

>Y'know, many times I've thought of painting computers, but never to >"fake" a classic, merely to make a computer I liked look good. For >instance, I never liked the dingy (and getting dingier every year) >off-white color of the TRS-80 Model 16 and most later Tandy >equipment. I always thought a Model 4, a 6000HD or a Tandy 2000 >would benefit greatly with a trip to the local Earl Scheib outlet >for some nice metalflake or pearlescent coating. No chrome. >-- I have a Compaq laptop that I had repainted because it was all covered from some sort of soot or something. It's not black, with silver accents. I had another computer that someone actually DID have chrome plating put on it (I don't know how). It was a Tandy 1110HD laptop. It looked pretty neat, after a black keyboard was put into it. Unfortunately, it was dropped, and the screen shattered (I was letting someone borrow it). I got it back, didn't worry about it much, because I never really used it that often. I eventually ended up selling it for $30 at a flea market, as-was because I found out it wasn't really worth it to get a new screen for it. Now, if it was an 1800, I would have bought a new screen for it... -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 4 months

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SOL feeding frenzy?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 02:46 PM 12/15/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: >That's an idea. Do you think there's a greed gene we could test for? >The point was that there's more than one motivation for selling something, >and money alone isn't always it. If someone paid $6,000 for something, and someone else paid $100, which person is more likely to preserve the something? >I have no problem with high prices being paid, but I have problems with >high prices being *publicized* because it directly affects me and the >hobby in a negative way. >We can no longer assume that everybody on this list is >interested in the preservation of old computers, so it doesn't make sense >to offer "special" deals here with the expectation that the machines will >get "special" treatment. You know the joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says "It hurts when I do this" and the doctor says "Don't do that"? Well, you're right. You can't expect to make a public announcement and somehow control the outcome after the sale. If someone really wants to preserve a system, would it be so hard as to hand-pick someone to get it? Let's say you had an old Terak. You do a simple web search and see this nice guy in Wisconsin with a Terak museum web page, and you decide to give it to him instead of selling it on eBay for $10,000. Problem solved. Oh, but wait you say - we aren't talking about people who want to preserve systems, we're talking about people who want to sell them and get as much money as possible for the transaction. >But this isn't a rant about prices, it's about expectations of behavior in >this "community." There is no community. You've been believing too many techno-pagans in the pages of Wired. :-) At 12:43 PM 12/15/98 -0800, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >I feel compelled to point out that I know all of the classic computer >collectors here, and I am only aware of one millionaire in the world ever >paying stupid prices for old junk, and he's the founder of some independent >web design company, he does not work for MS. I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular. Sorry about that. I recalled someone else complaining that some xxxx(a)microsoft.com bidder was walking away with systems on eBay, and assumed it was true. > I am not aware of anyone who is _buying and >selling_ classic computers for a profit. There's the Bob guy, the antique reseller, right? Good for him. At 04:19 PM 12/15/98 -0500, Max Eskin wrote: >That right there is a very important statement, on par with "Carthago >delenda est". I agree with you completely. What do you think you can wipe out, and how? >I guess the old days of >innocence are gone. It's not just an Enrico Tedeschi every few months, >there are actually people trying to make money off this hobby. Hobby? Who said it was a hobby? There are obviously some people on this list who have made it their life's work. - John

27 years, 4 months

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Value

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:14 PM 12/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >So assuming you had, lets say, the Polymorphic Business plan, how would you >put a value on it? While I don't know how many were made let alone still Surely you realize that anything Sam doesn't have is worth $5 max, while anything he has more than 2 of is worth thousands... 8^) >more likely to be found in those areas than areas like, lets say, the >Michigan Upper Pennisula (sp?.) So what is the difference in availability >of something between the two areas? How would that affect the price (value) >of a given item in the two areas? It's not so much the item's location as it is the *buyer's* location. I go to a fair number of antique shows (no computers yet) looking for Donald Duck stuff. I also go to Disneyland a fair bit. I regularly see things like buttons, flatware, stuffed animals for sale at shows for twice what they are *currently* available for at the park. Justification? The buyers aren't at Disneyland. They have the choice of paying $20 for an stuffed Donald Duck that is marked $12 on the tag, or buying a $50+ plane ticket and a $35+ Disneyland ticket to get the same item. Similary, people who aren't here in the valley, or aren't able to spend all day running around to thrift shops instead of working, are willing to pay a little more. I live in San Francisco, which should be pretty good for finding old computers, but I have to work for a living, and when I'm not working, I spend my time with either my dad or my girlfriend (or both.) So, what little free time I have available to me is usually the wee hours in the morning, and the only place open is eBay. Other people may have other reasons for not scouring 200 thrift shops/day: physical challenges, location, lack of knowledge, etc. Also, some folks may not be looking for something for the same reasons -- sure, we collect 'em, and may even play with 'em, but there are people out there who actually *use* old computers (like someone's friend with the HX-20) and may not even consider the fact that other people would consider them thrift shop fodder. So while the ideal thing to do is find your SOL's and Altairs at your neighborhood garage sales or church bazaars for $5, not everyone is able to do that. Saying they're stupid because of it, or unreasonable, is unfair. P.S., there are a lot of people out there who would think all of us insane for spending any amount on old computers, not to mention filling our homes and offices with them. Likewise, I've had people look at me strange when I've admitted paying several dollars for a single clothing button, or hundreds of dollars for some old toy. To some, my mother's prize Steinway piano is no better than her old Baldwin Acrosonic, and would be just as happy with the piano patch on their sound card. Chaque a' son gout, the lady said as she kissed the cow. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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Emulex doc archive site gone now . . .

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Well, I guess we lost an RSX document resource for some reason. http://rsxbbs.delconet.com/ has a shouting message and graphic: "Due to negative comments by posters to vmsnet.pdp-11, the RSX BBS was decommissioned on 13 December 1998. There are no plans to restore the service. Some material will be moved to a commercial site. Previous donors should contact the Webmaster to arrange return of their equipment or documents. " I cannot keep up with Usenet groups for lack of time. Anybody know what the 'negative comments' were about that I (we) missed? There were some Emulex docs posted there I wanted to check again (at URL: http://rsxbbs.delconet.com/docs/emulex/index.html). Any other location?? Thanks, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 4 months

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ebay intrusion

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Sorry about the ebay intrusion. I queried them to find out how to do a search on the description and forgot I was doing it from within the list. I seem to be able to search only by title, number, buyer, seller and completed titles. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

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Commodore 64/64C?

by brain＠mail.jbrain.com

I have done this on a 64C case here. It requires a little surgery (minor), but nothing serious. The 64 MB is preferred since it has sockets and uses a 6581 SID, not the cost reduced 8580 SID that has broken filters. Jim In article <c=USa=IBMX400p=HFCl=EXCHANGE01-980915164143Z-198853(a)exchange01.hersheys.com>, "Salzman, Jeff" <jsalzman(a)hersheys.com> wrote: >Mostly, there are some motherboard design difference between the two. >However, it is known that you can actually swap the boards between the >two if you preferred one case over another and have a bad unit. There >were at least 4 different board revisions, so some boards may not move >to another case. Another thing you might notice is the power supply >connector is different. There was a connector redesign between the newer >(aka 'flat C64') and older (aka 'Breadbox') C64's. The flat 64 has a >square connector where the breadbox 64 has a round one. The flat 64 also >has a different component layout due to IC consolidation. Maybe those >newer chip designs are what's overheating your system. Or it could be >the fact that the parts are closer to the outside of the case. > >I'm toying with the idea of swapping boards in my systems. I only heard >that it can be done. I want a functional version of each and I have 2 >working flat units and 7 dead breadboxes (of which I salvaged parts from >to get an SX-64 working). For my display units, I would like one of each >design in working order. > >Hope this helps, >Jeff Salzman > >>I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a >>64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the >>64C looks like a 128. (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats >>after about an hour or so...) >> > -- -- *********** A NOTE FROM JIM BRAIN ******************************************** I would like to apologize for the lateness in replying to your letter or note. Please do not take offense at the lack of a reply from myself. The Brain family has had some very extenuating circumstances throughout the 1998 year. At the close of 1997, my wife became gravely ill while in her first trimester of pregnancy with our son. To support my wife's needs, I switched the www.jbrain.com web site, ftp.jbrain.com FTP site and mail.jbrain.com listserver to autopilot and discontinued all online activities, including FAQ maintenance, responses to email requests, and other demands for my time. I also shut down Brain Innovations, Inc., our side business. My wife's health improved by March of 1998, and in June 19, 1998, Brent Harrison Brain came into the world at 7:50 AM. However, at 5 pounds, 3 ounces, Brent was 5 weeks early and a bit of a preemie. We were very ecstatic at the arrival. A few weeks later, Brent, who had not learned how to nurse very well, weighed in at 4 pounds and was sent to the neonatal ICU to stabilize his weight and regain lost fluids. The cause was his underdeveloped "sucking" instinct, which is common in preemies. Brent quickly stabilized and he was sent home within 3 days. I am happy to report that Brent has now learned all he needed to get food and now tips the scale at 15 pounds. Abaout this time, my commercial Internet Service Provider upgraded some application libraries on my server (which I share with many others) and broke the entire www.jbrain.com. It took from June 1 to July 1 to fix the problem, which eventually led to the migration of the jbrain.com domain to a new server with upgraded scripting tools, rendering the old www.jbrain.com unusable. I then started working on a replacement. I was able to get email and mailing lists back in operation before my wife and I (Brent was at home with my parents) were involved in a broadside collision while on our first "date" after the birth. I was left unhurt, but my wife sustained bruises and broken bones. Due to the breastfeeding, she was unable to take adequate medication, and her immobility made taking care of our son a impossible task. With some regret, I packed her and my son off with my parents to drive 10 hours to IL, where my wife's mother would care for both of them. I stayed at our house to direct the replacement of our totaled Saturn automobile In early August, my wife and son returned to Nebraska, but it took a few months for my wife injuries to heal to the point where she could care for our son during the day alone and withut discomfort. The events of the past 7 months caused us both to "withdraw" from the world in some respects. I have let email and web maintenance go without intervention, while we've both been slow to start back into any projects or start up our side business again. However, we are finally feeling better able to tackle the many demands on our time and the many hobbies we enjoy. My hope is that we can start out 1999 with a clean slate and forget about our many trials in 1998. We will, though, always remember 1998 as the year our son came to us (but I hope that is all we remember from it). I am happy to report that as of December 7, 1998, Brent is doing great, my wife is hoping to make a full recovery (though her back and feet still hurt occasionally). I am finally finishing some projects around the house and finding time and the energy to restart enjoying my hobbies and my online presence. As I write this, I am preparing to work my wife through 9 months of accumulated email from mail.jbrain.com. If you have sent me more than one message, please excuse the redundancy of the note when you receive it additional times. For simplicity sake, this is my .signature file for the next few weeks. We appreciate the responses we have received from folks during our trials. However, please do not feel it necesary to respond to this message, at least not for a few weeks. Doing so now will simply put more email in my inbox, of which I have plenty at present. Merry Christmas to everyone, and look for the Brain Christmas Letter on our web site. Jim Brain (and family) -- Jim Brain, Embedded System Designer, Brain Innovations, Inc. (BII)(offline sig) bii(a)mail.jbrain.com "Above views DO reflect my employer, since I'm my employer" Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! -Me- BII Home: http://www.jbrain.com CBM Info: http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/

27 years, 4 months

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SOL feeding frenzy?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 08:09 PM 12/15/98 -0600, you wrote: > >BTW, have you seen my Sol museum? > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/sol/ > >-- Doug AARGH!!! a guilt trip! (and well done I might add) -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 4 months

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anyone need a C64?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

ive got two i want to sell. one has the standard brown keys, but the other has white keys instead and a white power supply. the insert/del key is broken off, but included. the C64 with the normal colours is complete. either one will come with a power supply. both presumed working, but i have not a video cable to verify video. make a whimsical offer including shipping from NC. david

27 years, 4 months

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Info on Laser 128

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/15/98 10:03:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time, pctech(a)davidbowie.com writes: > > Someone i know came across this machine and asked if i could restore it.It > is a Laser 128 I know it is an Apple II clone but what else can anyone tell > me about it.I have cleaned this thing out(it was filthy)But cant start it up > because i have no power cord to do so any info will be of great help > > Brian if it's just the laser 128 and not an ex model, then it's pretty much a //c wannabe. ive heard it said that a //c power supply will get it working but i've never verified it. the slot on the left side can take an option card like a disk ][ controller. IIRC, control-open apple-P or control-reset-P gets you into control panel. david

27 years, 4 months

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PDP-11/24 bootup w/9312

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>>S1= ON Boot to ODT 165xxx >>S1=off Boot selected device 173xxx >>s2=off for 11/24 use >>s3 through s10 are starting add. > >S1 is set so that 1 thru 8 is 'OFF' and 9 + 10 are 'ON' as I found it. 9+10 means boot 173006 diagnose on (sizes memory etc.) > -- snip -- >>I am surprised you have the M9312 in that machine since you have 1 meg of >>memory. Normally you would put the boot rom on the KT24 (M7134) and use >>just a M9302 terminator. correction 01000000 = 256k bytes /128k words sorry old age I guess >Then Tim Shoppa replied: > >>I am surprised you have the M9312 in that machine since you have 1 meg of >>memory. Normally you would put the boot rom on the KT24 (M7134) and use >>just a M9302 terminator. > >Normally, yes, that's what you'd do. But it is possible to use >more than 256 K without the KT24 memory map/bootstrap module, assuming >your OS never tries to do I/O to memory past 256 K. For example, >RT-11 SJ, where the extra memory is used as a virtual (VM:) disk >drive. > > >Well, this machine has just a single M7891-DH with 128 KW of MOS RAM. Tim, >I assume you meant 256K *bytes*? :) > >There is no KT24 in this machine. It's kinda scrawny featurewise for such a >machine. Not even a DD11-DK expansion backplane is installed. Has two >RL02's in the cabinet. Came out of Case Western Reserve university so it >could have been hacked to make a 'smaller' system for instructional use or >just for lab use. Still has the UDA50 boardset for SDI disks but no SDI >"DU" boot ROM (767A9). Who knows <shrug> . . . > >Anyway, the lack of a KT24 explains why a 9312 was used instead of the 9302. > >BTW: after flicking the boot switch, about how many minutes should it take >to do the prelim. tests before any evident booting action takes place? I >just see the # of bytes of memory displayed ("@01000000") and a few >flickers of the "Ready" light on the RL02. Should start booting shortly (less than 30 sec.after mem size displayed) I waited at least five minutes >or more several times. After thinking I've waited long enough to grow old >waiting, I Halt the processor and "@1013" is written to the display. Could >there be a hang? (Got simple info out of my RT-11 5.1 manuals on how to >boot an 11/24 just this AM. Stumbled upon it, actually.) I don't know about RT - all my experience is with RSX11M+ but I would guess that it is not seeing the boot sectors. IE: try another platter. Before inserting another disk check / clean the heads, check the old platter for those nasty rings. Dan >

27 years, 4 months

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SOL feeding frenzy?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Ok... being somewhat bemused by the thoughts of a 'feeding frenzy', and sadly short on $$ (as is all too common this time of year), and not wanting to be accused of 'selling out' on eBay without offering to the more civilized set first, and... (etc., etc., etc...) Let's chuck another (yule) log into the flames and see how badly I get scorched with this one... (quite the build up, eh?) --- Deemed (reluctantly) surplus to the collection: SOL-20, electronically restored and keyboard rebuilt w/ P.T. 16kra memory card - AND - (so the eBay set does not feel left out) *RARE* original Panasonic B/W TV/Monitor conversion from P.T. with touch-plate power switch! --- Not that I want to start a bidding war (or then again, why not?) so lets say that it could be had for $600 plus shipping, with a possibility of part/all trade for something similarly really cool! (tho I could really use the $$$) Then, if the feeding frenzy really starts, folks can start openly bidding up the "ham sandwich"! B^} "Call now! This offer only good thru noon PST Friday, 18-December-1998 or while supplies last! This offer may not be repeated! Operators are standing by!" (quickly donning the flameproof 'Santa' suit) -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 4 months

6
10
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"Video Brain" circa 77-78?

by museum＠techniche.com

Interestingly, one of these sold on ebay yesterday. The photo is still there right now, but will probalby go away shortly. Jon see: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=48594741 ======================================================= >cswiger wrote: > >> Anyone heard of a product called the "Video Brain" circa 77-78? >> >> Regards >> Chuck >> cswiger(a)widomaker.com > >I have one of these computers/Game machines. I have looked everywhere >and have never found any information about them anywhere. > >Do you have one? > >Do You know anything about them ? > >My Video Brain is black, about the size of a commodore 64, has a full >keyboard, >cheap keyboard almost chicklet type. It has two nice joysticks, several >application >cartridges, I also have several manuals for it. Its very clean, but does >not work.. >Like I said I know nothing about this machine and have found out nothing >anywhere about it.. > >Phil... >

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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Keywords are not false advertising

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:41 PM 12/13/98 EST, you wrote: >search engine. Search engines use keywords. Finding the right keywords that First off, I know of no search engine that keeps on top of eBay other than eBay's own search engine. I doubt people are using AltaVista to find stuff on eBay. >The question then becomes "What do I list this as, that will trip the keywords >that people search for?" You end up packing the limited space for the >description with keywords that are only related to the item you are selling. I think you are confusing the description and the title. The title is what shows up on the listing pages (45 chars max) while the description (no limit, can include HTML) shows up only on the actual item page. With that clarification... EBay's search engine allows for searching the description as well as the title. If you are looking for Donald Duck stuff (for example) and you only search titles, you'll miss a lot of good items. An item with a title of "disney toothbrush holders" doesn't mention Donald, but the description did. (Bought the set of 6 for $10, gave the Donald one to Rachel, sold the other five for $25.) My recomendation is to make your *title* as descriptive and readable as possible: "Donald Duck in a red car" and then, in the description, include things like "made by Sun Rubber" and "has Goofy in the rumble seat" to catch the folks searching for Sun Rubber or Goofy items. People just looking through the category listings will see the title, and may find it interesting enough to look at. If you put "sun rubber donald duck goofy red car" as your title, you'll lose the folks going through the category and won't get many more searchers. And one of the most silly things I've seen is to put "for sale" in the title -- Duh! That's only slightly worse than the people who put, simply, "laptop computer" as the title of something in the portable computers category. >We are at the beginning of a revolution, I don't think anyone knows where it >will shake out. The only beginning bit is a new collectible: computers. Everything else is old hat (even the auction format). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

ebay methods...

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:50 PM 12/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >A sophisticated bidder doesn't browse. He knows what he's looking for and >has "canned" searches built-up that include keywords and even common >mispellings. Science, I tell you! Dunno about that... I regularly go through the full Portables section, and the "ending today" listings for a couple other categories. Donald Duck, I search for. Portable computers, there are no good keywords. Of course, the really sophisticated bidder simply keeps an eye on what other, known bidders are bidding on... 8^) (And disguises his own activity with lots of Donald Duck bids.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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SOL feeding frenzy?

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 yowza(a)yowza.com wrote: > this "community." We can no longer assume that everybody on this list is > interested in the preservation of old computers, so it doesn't make sense That right there is a very important statement, on par with "Carthago delenda est". I agree with you completely. I guess the old days of innocence are gone. It's not just an Enrico Tedeschi every few months, there are actually people trying to make money off this hobby. > -- Doug > ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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Saw Ad for "Wierd Science" Computer

by rcini＠msn.com

Marvin: I don't have one of these, although I'd probably like one. Mostly just curious as to the hardware capabilities, software available, how long it was sold, etc. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:22:33 -0800 From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Saw Ad for "Wierd Science" Computer Message-ID: <3675ABC9.85B1BFA6(a)rain.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > > Hello, all: > > While looking through 1984 Bytes. I came across an ad for the computer > used in the bedroom scene in "Wierd Science". It's the Memotech MTX512. It's > a sleek black unit and appears to be based on the Z80A. > > Does anyone know anything about these? Not too much. I have one in mint condition that IIRC includes the manuals, etc. I was given about a year ago but haven't done anything with it. Anything in particular you would like to know?

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Kaypro BASIC

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

Hi all: While looking thru surplus last weekend didn't find much, but 3 semi-interesting items: 1) Microsoft Basic referance manual for Kaypro, complete instructions for 8K, extended and disk basic, for 8080, 8085, and Z80 w/ CP/M. As the twig is bent so the tree inclines - you can see some destested qualities of MS in there, esp. the 'embrace and extend' philosophy, and the extensive product liability disclaimer while claiming to be high quality software at the same time. Got it at their usual buck a book price. 2) A PCJr. rom cart game from the "IBM Entertainment Division", in box w/ instructions, something about a Farmer, mouse and cheese. Probably pretty cheesy game but "IBM Entertainment" sounds like an oxymoron to me, priced at $4. Left it there. 3) Also a TI 700 silent writer. Anyone heard of a product called the "Video Brain" circa 77-78? Regards Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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SOL feeding frenzy?

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > on condition that I don't try to sell them. If machines start selling for > high prices, then the donors are less likely to believe that I want them There is another issue. Many people simply want money for their machine on account of the way _they_ feel about it. Here in a Jan'96 classifieds magazine, Apple ][s, C-64s, XTs are selling for $200 or more. This is before eBay. I kept this magazine for 2 years for the sole purpose of comparing prices. > -tony > ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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of topics

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Whilst enjoying the repartee on the list, I am writing to suggest that some consideration to the subject headings be made. It would be nice to see more appropriate headings added/changed when the topic wanders. Especially when the archives come into consideration - browsing 100 messages called "A nifty demo", when in fact very few of them relate to that topic, is very time consuming :) Cheers A

27 years, 4 months

1
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A nifty demo

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, ---------- > From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > And beside that - if I use a display with some > 3 to 4 megapix on a modern PC, drawing isn't realy > faster than on the Star 20 years ago. "3 to 4 megapix", you're talking about very modern PCs ... ;-)) cheers, emanuel

27 years, 4 months

4
11
0 0

Neat time-wasters for DEC enthusiasts

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 08:40 PM 14-12-98 -0800, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: >The first is about retro-computing on digital.com's main site: > >http://www.digital.com/info/DTJN02/DTJN02HM.HTM Well I guess most DEC users will know who Bob Supnik is but perhaps not Max Burnet. Max was one of the first Australian Digital employees and rose to become General Manager (or some such title) for Australia. He was replaced a couple of years later by a salesman (Max is a techie) but stayed with Digital until his retirement a couple of years ago. Max is famous for his museum of old Digital gear and at each Australian DECUS he would have an exhibit of something of interest. The last one I recall was a PDP-9 still in its shipping crate. It had gone (new) to New Zealand, never been opened and Max got it shipped back something like 15 years later. Max is, apart >from being a nice guy, a member of the Australian DECUS NOP SIG (NOP = Nostalgic and Obsolete Products). I've tried a couple of times to get him to join this mailing list and as far as I know he hasn't (although he could be lurking...). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

SIMM Mods

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

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27 years, 4 months

9
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SOL feeding frenzy?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 01:51 PM 12/15/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: >There's no guarantee that somebody who buys here won't >resell it on ebay or elsewhere for more. [...] then I think a simple >contract could be drawn up to help ensure that, and those conditions could >be stated in the ad. What's next, purity tests and monthly check-ups to insure that everyone's mind and body are innocent enough to own and sell old computers? If some Microsoft millionaire wants to pay stupid prices for old junk, what'ya gonna do, resort to vigilante indoctrination until they're willing to waste weekends searching thrift stores? There's no use getting upset about the right edge of the bell curve of Altair prices. - John

27 years, 4 months

3
5
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SOL feeding frenzy?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: Max Eskin [mailto:kurtkilg@geocities.com] | Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 1:20 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: SOL feeding frenzy? | | there are actually people trying to make money off this hobby. I hear this a lot, but I think it's just collectors like us whining (yeah, whining, I'm guilty too) of prices for this stuff going up past the junk range. While I do not dispute that there are folks who have had some machine(s) in their closet/garage/warehouse for some time, find out that it's worth money now, and pop it onto eBay, I am not aware of anyone who is _buying and selling_ classic computers for a profit. Kai

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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SOL feeding frenzy?

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I've been collecting radios, televisions, and computer equipment for some years. I've bought and sold lots of different radios and televisions, always to buy yet another more coveted radio or television. I don't have the disposable income necessary to collect everything I want and regardless of available resources, my interests have changed over the years. What once bowled me over may have grown passe` to me now. Anyway, I've funded the purchase of new and to myself, better gear by selling off what I am no longer in love with or just plain bored with. I have made a profit on some of what I've sold, taken a loss on others. I've been able to better my collection without denying my children milk and clothing this way. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: SOL feeding frenzy? Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 12/15/98 4:40 PM | -----Original Message----- | From: Max Eskin [mailto:kurtkilg@geocities.com] | Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 1:20 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: SOL feeding frenzy? | | there are actually people trying to make money off this hobby. I hear this a lot, but I think it's just collectors like us whining (yeah, whining, I'm guilty too) of prices for this stuff going up past the junk range. While I do not dispute that there are folks who have had some machine(s) in their closet/garage/warehouse for some time, find out that it's worth money now, and pop it onto eBay, I am not aware of anyone who is _buying and selling_ classic computers for a profit. Kai ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Dec15.164040.1767.85052; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:40:40 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA02357; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:38:16 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA18554 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:38:12 -0800 Received: from mail2.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.3.124]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA24 390 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:38:11 -0800 Received: by mail2.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <Y950V3TR>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:38:07 -0800 Message-Id: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5024CF9BF@RED-MSG-43> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:38:03 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: SOL feeding frenzy? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-To: "'classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu'" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Saw Ad for "Wierd Science" Computer

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: While looking through 1984 Bytes. I came across an ad for the computer used in the bedroom scene in "Wierd Science". It's the Memotech MTX512. It's a sleek black unit and appears to be based on the Z80A. Does anyone know anything about these? [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 4 months

7
8
0 0

FSOT: Core memeory baord

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found another core memory board. This looks like it's also for the Data General 800 but the name on it is Keronix. It says that it's 16K x 16. For sale or trade, best offer. E-mail me privately. Joe

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

tektronics 503 scope

by Watzman＠ibm.net

The 465 series are generally considered to be excellent scopes. Tony was right, $600 is about the going rate, neither a bargain nor a ripoff (depending to a degree on the condition of the scope). When looking at a square wave, it is normal for the horizontal tops and bottoms to be brighter/thicker than the vertical segments. The linear speed of the beam when drawing the vertical lines is MANY times (sometimes hundreds or thousands of times) faster (in mm/second of beam travel) than when drawing the horizontal tops and bottoms, which results in a difference in the nature of the display. Barry Watzman ---------- From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 2:29 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: tektronics 503 scope > > So, what's your (or anyone else's, for that matter) opinion on the Tek > 465B? I bought a used one as a Christmas gift for my partner; with two _Very_ nice portable 'scopes. I never owned one, but I've used the 465, 466, 453, etc and I like them a lot. > probes, an original manual, and shipping, it was around $600. It That is about the 'going rate', I think. Not a bargain price IMHO, but not high either. And considering that's what you'd pay for a cheap new no-name 'scope, I'd much rather have the Tek. > appears to work fine except that when I connect the probes to the > square-wave calibration output, the horizontal portions of the waves > seem to be much "thicker" vertically than they should be. The vertical Does the thickness depend on the vertical attenuation (is it noise coming in from somewhere)? Can you resolve any structure to it by fiddling with the timebase (in other words could it be noise on the supply lines from somewhere - noise which almost certainly isn't at line frequency). What does the spot look like in X-Y mode with no signal? > Anyone know if there's another adjustment I'm missing? I've only got > the user's guide - not the service manual. =20 I can't think of another adjustment, but it's worth getting the service manual and going through the performance checks in there. And also checking for supply ripple, etc (yes, a second 'scope is worth having at this point...) -tony

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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PDP-11/24 bootup w/9312

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>Anybody have a newer M9312 tech manual which describes the S1 settings for >this beast? The boot ROM (in U20) is a 23-774F1 and I'm trying to boot >RL01's and RL02's (device boot ROM -751A9). My manual is EK-M9312-TM-001, >so it's the first edition. > >I'm unsuccessful in getting this machine to boot even though it had been >said to have worked before I got it. Hardware config is the same as when I >got it but I want to just make sure I was told correctly that it worked. >Have to verify S1 switch settings as a beginning. S1= ON Boot to ODT 165xxx S1=off Boot selected device 173xxx s2=off for 11/24 use s3 through s10 are starting add. >Flipping the Halt/Cont/Boot switch to Boot causes some flickering of the >RL02 drives' Ready light as if there could be some activity. But it stops >after about 20-30 seconds and the VT100 shows just "@01000000" and is >locked. Manual booting by entering 173000G just shows some register info >such as "@ 1010" on the next line. Try 173004g or R0/ x Where X is the device # you want to boot from (0,1 etc. depending on what unit has the system pack in.) Then 173012g it will size memory as above then boot selected unit. I am surprised you have the M9312 in that machine since you have 1 meg of memory. Normally you would put the boot rom on the KT24 (M7134) and use just a M9302 terminator. I think I have a second 11/24 system technical manual around here but I can't find it at the moment. I will keep my eyes open for it in the meantime. It is to thick to readily copy and I use it to often supporting several customers that are still running them in production to loan my only copy. Dan

27 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

SOL feeding frenzy?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: John Foust [mailto:jfoust@threedee.com] | Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 12:21 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: SOL feeding frenzy? | | If some Microsoft millionaire wants to pay stupid prices for | old junk, what'ya gonna do I feel compelled to point out that I know all of the classic computer collectors here, and I am only aware of one millionaire in the world ever paying stupid prices for old junk, and he's the founder of some independent web design company, he does not work for MS. Kai

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

PDP-11/24 bootup w/9312

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I am surprised you have the M9312 in that machine since you have 1 meg of >memory. Normally you would put the boot rom on the KT24 (M7134) and use >just a M9302 terminator. Normally, yes, that's what you'd do. But it is possible to use more than 256 K without the KT24 memory map/bootstrap module, assuming your OS never tries to do I/O to memory past 256 K. For example, RT-11 SJ, where the extra memory is used as a virtual (VM:) disk drive. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

SOL feeding frenzy?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Hey Jim, is that the PT monitor I tried to trade you for, but you said you were too attached to? <grin> Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 10:18 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: SOL feeding frenzy? Ok... being somewhat bemused by the thoughts of a 'feeding frenzy', and sadly short on $$ (as is all too common this time of year), and not wanting to be accused of 'selling out' on eBay without offering to the more civilized set first, and... (etc., etc., etc...) Let's chuck another (yule) log into the flames and see how badly I get scorched with this one... (quite the build up, eh?) --- Deemed (reluctantly) surplus to the collection: SOL-20, electronically restored and keyboard rebuilt w/ P.T. 16kra memory card - AND - (so the eBay set does not feel left out) *RARE* original Panasonic B/W TV/Monitor conversion from P.T. with touch-plate power switch! --- Not that I want to start a bidding war (or then again, why not?) so lets say that it could be had for $600 plus shipping, with a possibility of part/all trade for something similarly really cool! (tho I could really use the $$$) Then, if the feeding frenzy really starts, folks can start openly bidding up the "ham sandwich"! B^} "Call now! This offer only good thru noon PST Friday, 18-December-1998 or while supplies last! This offer may not be repeated! Operators are standing by!" (quickly donning the flameproof 'Santa' suit) -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Rummaging through my document collection recently...

by mbg＠world.std.com

Sorry for that last message... I should have used a cite from the mail I received... it was in response to a question about the Maclisp 'Moon' manual I mentioned recently... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Rummaging through my document collection recently...

by mbg＠world.std.com

The book is a light blue cover, no graphics, just text. Clearly with Moon's name on it... Wraps from front to back, no text on the back that I remember... (But I don't have it in my hands at this time... it's at home)... Anyway, it isn't a lisp machine manual... it is the language manual. Megan

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

PDP-11/24 bootup w/9312

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Anybody have a newer M9312 tech manual which describes the S1 settings for this beast? The boot ROM (in U20) is a 23-774F1 and I'm trying to boot RL01's and RL02's (device boot ROM -751A9). My manual is EK-M9312-TM-001, so it's the first edition. I'm unsuccessful in getting this machine to boot even though it had been said to have worked before I got it. Hardware config is the same as when I got it but I want to just make sure I was told correctly that it worked. Have to verify S1 switch settings as a beginning. Flipping the Halt/Cont/Boot switch to Boot causes some flickering of the RL02 drives' Ready light as if there could be some activity. But it stops after about 20-30 seconds and the VT100 shows just "@01000000" and is locked. Manual booting by entering 173000G just shows some register info such as "@ 1010" on the next line. Could I get a copy of somebody's latest edition of the tech manual. I'll of course pay all costs. Thanks for the help! -- Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Emulex doc archive site gone now . . .

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Well, I guess we lost an RSX document resource for some reason. >http://rsxbbs.delconet.com/ has a shouting message and graphic: >"Due to negative comments by posters to vmsnet.pdp-11, > the RSX BBS was decommissioned on 13 December 1998. > > There are no plans to restore the service. Some > material will be moved to a commercial site. > >Previous donors should contact the Webmaster >to arrange return of their equipment or documents. " > >I cannot keep up with Usenet groups for lack of time. Too bad - there's a lot of good information on the technical newsgroups (i.e. vmsnet.pdp-11, alt.sys.pdp10) that you'd probably appreciate. > Anybody know what the >'negative comments' were about that I (we) missed? Bruce had an unusual policy of sending nastygrams to folks who (gasp!) put a link to his site without permission. Anyone who did link without permission would find that their network was no longer able to access his site. When someone mentioned this policy on vmsnet.pdp-11, Bruce responded by completely shutting down his web site. >There were some Emulex docs posted there I wanted to check again (at URL: >http://rsxbbs.delconet.com/docs/emulex/index.html). Any other location?? I'm not sure what was there (I never had any way to read the Microsoft Word formats), but if you ask you'll probably find out what you need to know. What do you need to know? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Rummaging through my document collection recently...

by mbg＠world.std.com

... I came across the MACLisp manaul I used in a 'higher level languages' course at WPI back in the 70s... it is the 'Moon' manual, for those who might remember such things... Rev.0 ! I wonder how many of those have survived... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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A nifty demo

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de wrote: > I think they have been insirated by the Star like anyone > else, but the Ventura design is more to the direction > of a single programm and of course made to fit GEM (or > did DR made GEM to fit the Publisher ?). GEM itself I think GEM was made first and Publisher was the only really big app for it. I have a couple of boxes of Ventura and GEM as well over here. The filemanager is worse than on a macintosh (actually, it's worse than the MS-DOS shell, IMHO). The graphics have no refined quality to them, they look like a screensaver that draws boxes with random coordinates :) Were GEM and Lisa the first non-Xerox GUI projects, or was there some kind of weird little company that made a perfect gui but vanished into thin air? > was like the Mac a downsized (and crushed) version of > the Star (I still belive all 'modern' GUI systems are > just the mouse interface but noone took the desktop :( ). > Maybe with an exception of the OS/2 desktop (Althrough > still a GUI, it includes a lot more OO than most other). What about NeXT? That's _supposed_ to be OO... Is there any way I could find out more in-depth about what the UI was like? This sounds like an interesting machine. What exactly is meant by an OO desktop? What about the Amiga? I've heard many people who've used it say the same thing about it as you're saying about the Xerox machines, and yet I have the feeling you won't agree. > > > Gruss > Hans ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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Saw one...what is that? TI printing terminal Silent 700.

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Barry A. Watzman <Watzman(a)ibm.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 15 December 1998 12:34 Subject: RE: Saw one...what is that? TI printing terminal Silent 700. The silent 700's were mostly used for time-sharing remote computing in the 70's. Some models (there were quite a few of them) had built-in modems (acoustic 300 baud for the most part). They were also used as local consoles (keyboard/printer). I believe that the printers were 30 chars/sec, but they may have been somewhat faster, perhaps as much as 120 cps. For their day, they were considered high-end and very desirable. IIRC, we had those in the VOLMET broadcast booth in the then Sydney Flight Service Centre, (Circa 1982). They were running off a Ferranti Message Switching System (dedicated 24(?)bit mini/mainframe) at 300 baud, which made them a good deal quicker than the Siemens electromechanical teleprinters that were used elsewhere in the FSC. They were used in the booth because they were QUIET and didn't drown out the announcer when the VOLMET broadcast was on. The old Siemens machines were designed for 50 or 75, but I think they ran them at 100, which was just about the physical limit, and NOISY, even in a sound deadening cabinet. Footnote: I also collect teleprinter machines if anyone in Oz has any they want to part with....... Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 4 months

1
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Dead Media Note: Flexowriter recollection

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Here's a forwarded message from the Dead Media mailing list. - John Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:50:11 -0600 (CST) To: Dead Media List <dead-media(a)fringeware.com> From: Richard Kadrey <kadrey(a)sirius.com> Dead Media Working Note 41.3 Dead medium: SPS Flexowriter From: phxbrd(a)uswest.net (L. Seth Hammond) Sources: Personal Recollection

27 years, 4 months

1
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24x80 Standard? (was: Re: HX20)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>In a windowy world there are still plenty of applications that do great >work with an 80X24 character (or much less) screen. I was asked this yesterday (sorta) -- Why the 80x24 standard of yore? I believe the 80 columns comes from the 80 column punched cards, but I can't remember where the 24 comes from. Thanks in advance... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

4
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(no subject)

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/14/98 1:55:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, yowza(a)yowza.com writes: > I think of it as: > Star ran on the 8010 (codenamed Dandelion) > Viewpoint ran on the 6085 (codenamed Daybreak) > All of the 8010s we got in were running Viewpoint 1.0. The 6085s were running a mix of Viewpoint 1.X or 2.0. We called the 8010s "Stars" also, not knowing any difference. Of course this was 5 years ago. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

1
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Z-80 Emulator

by neil＠goodnet.com

For anyone that is interested, I have a Z-80 Emulator for sale on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=48474125 Neil.

27 years, 4 months

8
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Saw Ad for "Wierd Science" Computer

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 04:22 PM 12/14/98 -0800, Marvin wrote: >Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: >> >> Hello, all: >> >> While looking through 1984 Bytes. I came across an ad for the computer >> used in the bedroom scene in "Wierd Science". It's the Memotech MTX512. It's >> a sleek black unit and appears to be based on the Z80A. >> >> Does anyone know anything about these? > >Not too much. I have one in mint condition that IIRC includes the manuals, >etc. I was given about a year ago but haven't done anything with it. >Anything in particular you would like to know? Yeah, can it create babes from dolls? ; ) Les

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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DG One remnants

by red＠bears.org

Hi guys. My dad just got a DG One through his shop; he threw it out before I could catch him. <scowl> At any rate, he has a few of the accessories left over from it. I know he has at least the carrying case and he mentioned having a spare battery. I should think he probably has a few more bits leftover, too. If anybody's looking for accessories for their One, let me know and I'll get you in touch with him. Let's make sure that next time he doesn't throw that kind of stuff away. (: -- ok r. r e d @ b e a r s . o r g =========================== [ urs longa | vita brevis ]

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Mosaic/Netscape

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

Does anyone here know where I can get Windows and Linux versions of Netscape 3.x or less, or Mosaic? I need these for computers that are growing classic... -------------------------------------- Max Eskin kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com

27 years, 4 months

5
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Private file area on my Web Site

by rcini＠msn.com

To those who were interested in access to my private file area: I've think that I've fixed the authentication problems, so outside access should work. Please be patient -- I'm new to Web site administration. Please e-mail me again with the following as the subject header: **SO:Private File Area Each person will be issued a user name and password. I need full first and last names, please (in order to keep with internal naming conventions). And forget secure e-mail -- no one uses it. Another $10 sent to /dev/null... [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 4 months

1
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Saw one...what is that? TI printing terminal Silent 700.

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

It's a portable data terminal, with the thermal printer replacing a display screen. They had built-in modems (at least my model 707 does) and could use rechargeable battery packs or AC power. Truly the "laptop computers" of their day. They were commonly used by salesmen, engineers, etc; anyone who might have to dial in to a mainframe while on the road. Some selected specs: Printing rate: 45 cps, bidirectional Modem transmission speed: 300 bps Weight: 2.04 kg (includes one roll of thermal paper) Power consumption: 35 W maximum at 90 Vac Operating environment: Temperature: 10 deg C to 40 deg C Maximum altitude (!) 3000 m Feel free to email me if you want more info. Mark Gregory At 06:48 PM 12/14/98 +0000, you wrote: >This, Ti terminal Silent 700 looks like a headless thick notebook >with real keyboard on it, full width thermal printer built in, bunch >of ports on backside, with 2 phone-like jacks, berg connectors. > >What this for and its capabliites? > >Jason D. >email: jpero(a)cgocable.net >Pero, Jason D. > >

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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A nifty demo

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< _NOW_ c'mon boy, 20 years ago a 12" tube with 256 by < 256 pixles b&w was considered as high resolution. Not hardly. That would eb 1978 and 512x256 mono would have been a real low end board. Cpmpucolor and several others were doing that but in color. Allison

27 years, 4 months

1
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Comterm Hyperion - Boot disk?

by Watzman＠ibm.net

Both 320k (8 sectors/track) and 360k (9 sectors/track) were used in a number of MS-DOS systems in the early 80's, and it's quite possible that any given MS-DOS implementation will support both of them and will properly recognize which way a disk is formatted through parameters in either the FAT or the boot sector. ---------- From: Don Maslin [SMTP:donm@cts.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 6:34 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Comterm Hyperion - Boot disk? On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 Innfogra(a)aol.com wrote: > Looking at the June 83 ad for the Hyperion I noticed that it has 320K drives > instead of 360K. If I remember right the 320K format is 7 sector not 8 sector > drives. No, it is 8 sector instead of 9 sector disk format. The drives are no different! - don > I propose an experiment even though I too, believe it takes a special version > of DOS. Get an old PC and format a DOS disk at the 320K format using ver 2.11. > Transfer the system and see what happens. > > Paxton > donm(a)cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cws86.kyamk.fi/mirrors/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Saw one...what is that? TI printing terminal Silent 700.

by Watzman＠ibm.net

The silent 700's were mostly used for time-sharing remote computing in the 70's. Some models (there were quite a few of them) had built-in modems (acoustic 300 baud for the most part). They were also used as local consoles (keyboard/printer). I believe that the printers were 30 chars/sec, but they may have been somewhat faster, perhaps as much as 120 cps. For their day, they were considered high-end and very desirable. The look was as described, kind of like a laptop with no screen, or like a very compact electric typewriter. Barry Watzman ---------- From: jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net [SMTP:jpero@pop.cgocable.net] Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 1:48 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Saw one...what is that? TI printing terminal Silent 700. This, Ti terminal Silent 700 looks like a headless thick notebook with real keyboard on it, full width thermal printer built in, bunch of ports on backside, with 2 phone-like jacks, berg connectors. What this for and its capabliites? Jason D. email: jpero(a)cgocable.net Pero, Jason D.

27 years, 4 months

1
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Keywords are not false advertising

by Watzman＠ibm.net

I believe that the 1602A is either a UART or a keyboard encoder. Early terminals were built in one of two ways, either hard wired pure discreet TTL logic (such as the ADM-3) or as microprocessor based terminals, often with an 8008. Using a uP was much more expensive and was usually done only in very high end ASCII terminals or (almost always) in 3270 type terminals (connected to IBM mainframes via a coax cable interface). Barry Watzman ---------- From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:12 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Keywords are not false advertising On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > I'm looking at the manual for this thing. It was a pretty righteous > > terminal in its day. Maximum transmission rate is 9600 baud. It had a > > video out so you could hook up an external monitor. According to the > > schematic, the biggest chip on the I/O board is a TR1402A or 1602A (it has > > both numbers written on it). I have no idea what this is. But there's no > > 8008 in there. I think I checked it out when I first got it, and you > > would've tried to get more than $10 out of me if it did I'm sure. ;) > > There are several terminals made by Beehive. Mine must be a later one - > it has an 8008 in it (I am not sure what the UART is), a separate > keyboard, but no joystick. Its main claim to fame is that it has a Hebrew > character set in it as well as the normal one. The one I have is circa 1974. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/07/98]

27 years, 4 months

1
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A nifty demo

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Saw a demo of a neat piece of software yesterday. Two people were about 35 miles apart. One pulled up a document on his computer. Gave access to it to the other guy who had a mouse and cursor at his end which we could also see on the screen. He could point to things, as the two people talked. Control could have been passed to him at any time. After a bit, the guy on our end decided he wanted to be able to see the other guy, so he opened a box in the upper left corner of the screen, sized it, and voila, there was a video image of the other guy. They were able to talk and see each other, as they worked together on the same document. Pretty darn cool, if you ask me. Oh, I kinda lied. I actually only saw a videotape of the demo. The actual demo had taken place 30 years ago in 1968, and the star of the demo was Doug Englebart. Think about your first reaction to what sounds like whiteboarding software that is starting to become commonplace. Now consider that the demo was filmed 30 years ago in *black and white*! That's how far ahead Englebart and his team really were (or, how far we *haven't* come when we should have!) Go check out http://unrev.stanford.edu/ for yourself. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

7
14
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Keywords are not false advertising

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/98 3:05:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, yowza(a)yowza.com writes: > Tell us, and let us chuckle now. 8080's are available from any surplus > electronics shop in quantity. I sold one of my 8008's on ebay a while > back "the CPU used in the Scelbi and Mark-8, before the Altair!" and got > $15 for it. The chip collector niche is *much* smaller than even the tiny > computer collector niche. > Did you advertise under the keyword "Gold". I think this is the key to selling old chips. I agree that the chip collector niche is small. However there are many more people that collect beautiful Gold objects. This is my target market. Scrap value of your 8008 is less than 25 cents. At $15 you did very well. I plan on starting with my gold 8080s and EPROM's, not the most collectable stuff. My main interest is in doing better than scrap value. I agree these chips are available in every scrapyard. These came out of mine. Computer collectors know this, gold collectors don't. Researching your market important. Keywords are everything. I noticed that even you got 'Altair' in the title box of the 8008. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

4
8
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Keywords are not false advertising

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/98 3:21:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, dastar(a)ncal.verio.com writes: > With regards specifically to the auction in question, the item was listed > as a "S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR". This item has nothing to do > with emulating the S-100 bus. That is deceptive. > I agree that the listing is deceptive, poor English also. I doubt any court would convict on the listings of the title box alone, they would rely on the description to decide deception. When I originally searched by category I got 50 pages to wade through. Like most others I switched to keyword searches. This makes keywords much more important than the actual description. Lets take my gold 8080 for example. (It is over 10 years old so it is on topic). While I would list it under CPUs my title would say something like "Beautiful Gold Intel 8080 Microprocessor, Rare! 'Gold' and 'Intel' for the search engines. 'Beautiful' to get you to look at the picture, a nice close-up larger than life size (with size disclaimer). The quality of the photo is very important. It would be plugged into anti-stat foam in a clear plastic box. I know some of the list would quibble over the term 'Rare'. I have no real idea of the rarity. However after working with a scrapper for years my guess is they 'are' rare. My intended market, obviously is the jewelry collector or someone interested in gold items, not a computer collector. Old gold electronics are very attractive. Whoever sold the emulator asked themselves who might buy this item and how do I connect with them. They obviously thought that people searching for S100, Imsais and Altairs would be interested. You don't have much room in the title box. In my example above I might not have room for 'microprocessor'. It is unfortunate that English gets left behind in the process. This also comes from the poor job that schools today are teaching English. The unfortunate part of this is that poor English is becoming more acceptable. The Internet and it's use of keywords only contributes to this. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

3
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"Single instance" machines

by pb0aia＠iaehv.nl

How about the Philips P2000 family? I have not seen messages about those machines on the list. Z80 system, 48K RAM, 16K ROM in a cart so it was easy to change programs, micro cassette recorder that was operated by the computer so no fiddling with buttons, floppy drives optional, video 40x24 color (viewdata/teletext character set) or 80x24 monochrome. Started life as a dedicated word processor, BASIC cart added later. There was a disk operating system that could work with the programs originally meant for cassette use only, and CP/M was available. P2000T was the 40x24 cassette version, P2000M was the 80x24 disk version. There also was a P2000C, which was a 'portable' machine like the Kaypro's, but it ran CP/M only and was not compatible with the P2000T/M. AFAIK they were all developed and produced in the Philips factories in Austria. Picture of a P2000M at http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/sroom.html Picture of a P2000C at http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/lroom.html Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia(a)iae.nl Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://vaxarchive.ml.org (primary) - http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) See my old computers at http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/ Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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single instance machines

by fauradon＠pclink.com

How about the exelvision EXL100? is that a single instance on the list? I also have the IR joysticks. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/

27 years, 4 months

3
10
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First PC ??

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In the 386 issue of PC Magazine, May 30, 1989, there is a two page spread (p98&99) called "Another Kind of Memory." It is a timeline from 1890 to 1990 of historical milestones on the path to computerdom. Of special interest to this group they list the Kenbak PC, 1971 as the first personal computer. The Xerox Alto was the first workstation with a mouse, 1972. Mits Altair featured on cover of Popular Electronics, July 1975. They make no claims that the Altair was the first personal computer, only that it was on the cover of a popular magazine. Does anyone out there have a KenbaK PC? Paxton

27 years, 4 months

4
3
0 0

Annual troll for Ohio Scientific

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I have a C1P with a complete set of documentation and presale material including schematics. i believe i also have a bare disk controller board, but i dont know for sure. i might need some of my parts identified. david In a message dated 12/11/98 11:15:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com writes: << It has been at least 6 months so maybe it is time again. I'm always looking for OSI hardware. I am specifically looking for C4 and C8 machines and/or Floppy drives for such critters. Perhaps we could create an inventory list among us and see if we might be able to mix/match to build more complete systems. I'll start: I have the following: C2-4p Empty case C4p Comes up with 256 Bytes of RAM >>

27 years, 4 months

4
5
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replacement parts, was tektronics 503 scope

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 06:44 PM 12/13/98 +0000, Tony wrote: >> for originals or copies is the tricky part. Many tubes(valves) are still >> available new as NOS or rebuilds or newly made. I even have problems on a new >> digital scope finding some things from HP. > >It never fails to amaze me that I can get spare valves for a unit made 50 >years ago (or more), but can't get a new ASIC for a machine made 5 years >ago.... > >Sad but true... > Yes. A few hundred valves/tube types I quess would be plenty for radios, TV's computers, audio, scopes, etc. Including octal types which go back to the 1930's. Am ignoring the series string types in later tube TV's, such as (In the US) "38qzy", etc, and CRT's. I quess one could do the same with ic's with the 74 and 74ls series, even with a few mos (microprocessors) parts thrown in. Even with transistors - a 2N2222 can go in many places. Not anymore... -Dave

27 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Comterm Hyperion - Boot disk?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Looking at the June 83 ad for the Hyperion I noticed that it has 320K drives instead of 360K. If I remember right the 320K format is 7 sector not 8 sector drives. I propose an experiment even though I too, believe it takes a special version of DOS. Get an old PC and format a DOS disk at the 320K format using ver 2.11. Transfer the system and see what happens. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

tektronics 503 scope

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

ok, so its not a classic computer but there was a discussion a while back about ocilloscopes and i happened upon a model 503 at a thift store for $80. is it worth getting? presumably it works but i have no idea how one would test it, much less use it. david

27 years, 4 months

9
16
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Keywords are not false advertising

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/98 4:52:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > There is only one place where an 8008 should end up. In a circuit that > needs one. Like the frontpanel controller of my 11/34. Like the control > logic board of my Beehive. Like a Scelbi. Or a dozen more machines. Personally I agree with you. > > If they all get turned into jewellery, where they're going to get ruined > by static, then where do us computer collectors get our spares from? Don't worry, they won't all be made into jewelry. > > There are already some chips that are _very_ difficult to find. The Intel > 8271 disk controller (used in older Acorn machines, up to and including > the BBC). The LM379 audio amplifier (which is used in hard disks as a > servo driver). I don't want other chips to be hard to find unnecessarily... I would like to see a list of chips that are in short supply. I have kept many that I wondered if there was a market. When you work with a scrapper you go through tons and tons of circuit cards. It is hard to tell what is valuable and what should be saved. Argueing to save the gold chips is impossible. Almost of the chips go to scrap, gold reclaim. Intel scraps their chips in house. They don't let them get out to the market. It was hard to get old multibus stuff from them. We ballooned up to 16,000 Sq. Ft. before we broke up, in good part because of arguments about what to keep or scrap. It is hard to pay the rent on that kind of space. > > > > > Scrap value of your 8008 is less than 25 cents. At $15 you did very well. > I > > The gold might be worth $0.25 (actually, I doubt it). But what about the > value to somebody who needs this chip to get an old machine running? > > > plan on starting with my gold 8080s and EPROM's, not the most collectable > > stuff. My main interest is in doing better than scrap value. I agree these > > _My_ main interest is keeping as many classics working as possible. And > this means keeping spare parts available. Are you willing to pay for shipping and storage. I can;t afford to anymore. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Conner Hard drives?

by Metol＠aol.com

HI: I have a Conner 3 1/2 inch HD CP 3044 do you know what the drive will format to? Thanks for any help. Ed

27 years, 4 months

6
5
0 0

Keywords are not false advertising

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 06:18 PM 12/13/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: > >You mean you're going after the jewelry crowd? That should be >interesting. If I start seeing old women with big hair wearing 4004's >around their neck, I'll be happy being able to say "I knew Paxton when he >started this trend." Nope, you gotta start making CPU beanie babies for people to hang on the side of their monitors. What's the ticket. "This beanie baby is the chip used in the Altair!" Or maybe little dancing chips that wiggle when they hear music. Or collector cards with pictures of chips, particularly if you can design a game around them involving magic powers. - John

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Feeding frenzy for SOL

by bobstek＠ix.netcom.com

Boy, will I have to be careful how I phrase things! My initial response was to Paxton Hoag's public Classiccmp message to me that he had uncovered another SOL (I had previously purchased one from him many months ago). My public response was to thank him but decline, instead suggesting that any other reader of his message or my message might be interested. I then offered to take it if no one else was interested (can't have a SOL go to the junkyard after all). Apparently several people are interested, some of whom have contacted me and some of whom have contacted Paxton. So Paxton has the SOL - contact him for details. (Shall we have a private ClassicCmp eBay.com auction and see who will bid the highest? {{big wicked grin}} We can then replay the messages about everyone's collecting / buying / selling / bidding / anti-eBay / pro-market forces / I'd-rather-give-it-a-good-home philosophies. Are we all unanimous in our support of diverse opinions? - please raise your hands!) However, as the last North American bastion against creeping planned obsolescence (i.e., everything Intel has made since the 8080), as an original SOL owner, and as a current SOL / N* owner, I am happy to share copies of documentation and software for cost of copying plus shipping (or trades - be aware that the SOL manual is very large, but if you can do without the assembly instructions, it's not too bad - it does have good schematics and a detailed theory of operation). I am still in the midst of sorting out some recent ProcTech finds, and will keep the ClassicCmp list updated with what I have uncovered and what is available as I find the time. (Yes, I did find a Helios and no, I haven't hooked it up yet). BTW, whoever said that I had "too many SOLs" ...that's an oxymoron in my book <g> ! Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

27 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

Correction

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

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Keywords are not false advertising

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Sam, At 10:48 PM 12/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >I'm looking at the manual for this thing. It was a pretty righteous >terminal in its day. Maximum transmission rate is 9600 baud. It had a >video out so you could hook up an external monitor. According to the >schematic, the biggest chip on the I/O board is a TR1402A or 1602A (it has >both numbers written on it). Sounds like a 40 pin DIP UART. -Dave

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Keywords are not false advertising

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:36:31 EST Innfogra(a)aol.com writes: >In a message dated 12/13/98 3:05:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, >yowza(a)yowza.com >writes: > >> >> The *beggining* of the Internet revolution? You missed it by >almost 30 >> years :-) (I was just talking to a guy who was there for the >installation >> of IMP #1 at UCLA.) >> >You are a pioneer. The revolution starts when it is being adopted by >the >masses. This is what is happening right now. Ebay is a part of it. The >iMac is >a part of it. Mass use of the Internet will change it so that the >pioneers >will have trouble recognizing it. The next few years will be >interesting. There is a Chinese *curse* that reads: "May you live in interesting times" >Paxton > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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single instance machines

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I knew that ;) I just forgot for a few minutes. Then I gues I just have mainstream machines. Except for my Dyna Micro but it is bare of components so I guess it doesn't really count. Francois >Francois wrote: >> >> How about the exelvision EXL100? is that a single instance on the list? >> I also have the IR joysticks. >> Francois > >Sorry, I have a couple of those ;-) > >_---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- >Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue ><mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc> >

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ebay - Minivac 601 and the revolution

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/98 12:57:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, yowza(a)yowza.com writes: > > Your ebay advertising service is great for ebay, and great for sellers, > but please consider what you do to the poor bidders who already know about > this stuff and have plans to bid on it. > > Advertising an auction is not the same as advertising a Usenet ad, for > example, in which the advantage goes to those who did their homework and > legwork earlier than the others. In the auction case, you've simply > raised the price of the item. > The Internet revolution is about making contacts. Marvin is facilitating that. After reading these comments I immediately went to the listing and looked at the bidding history. Sure enough, there are at least two of the bidders I recognize from this list. When I used to go to auctions I hated to have anyone bid against me. This is a natural and personal feeling. I was very good at finding sales that few others went to. It was disappointing when these sales got discovered. However this is life. Nothing stays the same. I am cultivating new sources. I am also exploring the new way to buy and sell stuff, Internet auctions. I don't hold that "spreading the word" is advertising. The Internet is about community, communication and contacts. It is unfortunate when it impacts you directly. However this is a revolution and we have to learn to go with the changes. It is too bad that Marvin's listing impacted you directly. Marvin was only informing the community of something of interest. He is being a good revolutionary. I appreciate that.

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"Single instance" machines

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:50:59 -0800 Larry Anderson <foxnhare(a)goldrush.com> writes: >In reference to the memory question some VIC/VC REUs went to 24k (like >the MSD >one I have here), but there was also the Aprotek RAM >expander/cartridge >expander which filled every gap, all the contiguous memory (including >the 3k >portion in lower RAM) as well as the upper 8K Game ROM space. 32k? I >think >they gave it a bigger number, maybe by adding the 5k and the ROMS to >the >'total memory', regardless, the Aprotek one was the ultimate in VIC-20 >expanders... Another was the Data20 64k VideoPAK. This sucker had it all: 64k of paged RAM, 40 or 80 column display, and a built in terminal emulator. Way cool. If you purchased yours towards the end of Data-20's life, you got a spreadsheet and word processor with it. Mine, alas, broke last fall. It won't display 80 columns. I also lost the software for it. :-( ANother cool Data-20 product was the Z-80 VideoPAK. This added a Z-80 cpu, and an 80-column display to the C-64. It was supposed to run CP/M also. I also have one of these as well (thanks Doug!), but no software. Still looking. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 4 months

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ebay - Minivac 601, 1st pers. digital computer 1960s

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 12:30 PM 12/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Interesting item on ebay. I hadn't heard of it but it looks like it is an >interesting part of early computer history! The URL is: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=47803992 > > I do remember seeing ads for it (Edmund scientific?), if I can find what it cost then, I will post it. I just checked, the bid is now $76, too much for me. I have actually managed to buy no computer items yet on ebay, did get within 1 minute on one item. I would be interested in what the minivac did? There are 6 relays, one pole maybe used as a latch? I forgot what it takes in relays for a 1 bit adder, a single relay coil can be an exclusive or, foe example. My point is that I can still find relays for US$1 each, so building something like this isn't out of the question. The "speculation" value is less interesting to me... if I had one, under what circumstances would I sell it? Besides, a homebrew could be modified/improved without the speculation factor. -Dave

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DECStuff FS or trade

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

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Keywords are not false advertising

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> No, I think this comes more from a lack of integrity. He also implied it > was an S100 emulator. Like I said, this item had nothing to do with > emulating an S-100 bus, and didn't really have much to do with an Altair > or IMSAI for that matter either. Let's see - if you wanted to emulate early S-100 stuff, I guess this'd be the way that it'd go: 1. Find an ad in the back of a 1975-1978 BYTE magazine for a neat memory board. 2. Place order for board. 3. Begin assembling board. Supplier gives you low-grade chips; you must test all 2102's by hand before installing. 4. Plug board into system. Front panel freezes up. 5. Hack around the front panel, changing RC constants in one-shots. 6. Discover you have to cut a couple traces on your CPU board, wire in some JK Flip-Flops to synchronize the timing to what the memory board expects. 7. Congratulations! After months of time, and weeks of effort, you now have enough memory to play Trek under MBASIC! OK, OK, I'm exaggerating a little bit. By the late 70's there were some pretty solid S-100 based systems out there, if you were willing to spend the bucks to get the good stuff (i.e. Godbout/Compupro/Cromemco/usw.) But if you played it cheap, you got what you paid for! Tim.

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Does DECNET = DECNET?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>Hmm - it looks like they do Phase IV, SET HOST, and FAL, which I think >>is all you need. >> >>It looks like they've only done extensive testing under VMS, so it's >>possible that some of their tools assume VMS-ism's not present under >>RSX. But you won't know till you try! >I've spent a good chunk of the day trying to get this working, and finally >gave up and spent some time redoing my one VAX so it doesn't have to have >ALL the disks online when it is used. The end result is as follows: > > VAX VMS 6.1 talks to Linux 2.0.34 > Linux 2.0.34 talks to VAX VMS 6.1 > > VAX VMS 6.1 talks to RSX-11M 4.2 > RSX-11M 4.2 talks to VAX VMS 6.1 > > Linux DOES NOT talk to RSX > RSX DOES NOT talk to Linux Let's back up just a little bit, Zane. If I understand your original post, you want to use Linux/DECNET to move some files to and from a RSX system, right? If so, why not just move the RSX disk to the VMS system, MOUNT it under VMS, use DECNET between the Linux box and the VAX, and then move the disk back to the PDP-11 when you're done? (Note that RSX disks larger than 512 Mbytes may not be mountable under VMS, due to a divergence between RSX, VMS, and IAS about how to enlarge the ODS-1 cluster factor. But disks smaller than 512 Mbytes are just plain old ODS-1 filesystems and VMS and RSX agree about how to talk to these.) Things are even better if the drive in question is dual ported - that way you can have it physically attached to the VAX and the PDP-11 at the same time (very handy for some development). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

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DG 1210 & 8K core memory availaible

by Innfogra＠aol.com

While trying to get to the SOL in the back of the warehouse I came across a spare Data General card set. It is a 1210 CPU card and an 8K core memory card. I believe they would work if plugged in. It was a spare board set for a bunch of systems that we scrapped about 8 years ago. This is just a two card set in an anti stat box. Written on the box is "Replacement value $12,000, 1977" I am open to all offers. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

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Keywords are not false advertising

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/98 4:29:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: > >Where is the list of the top Supercomputers? > > Good question, I hit a link from slashdot last week, but didn't bother to > bookmark it. www.netlib.org Kelly

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Anyone know what this is for?: AT&T ext SCSI drive

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found this while digging through a surplus store. AT&T external SCSI drive model DM/300S. It's a white metal box about 11" square and 4" high. Does anyone know what machine/system it's for or the specs for it? It has two round co-axial connectors on the back marked "Power" and "Control". Anyone know what they're for? It has a socket for an AC power cord so the "Power" connection isn't for powering the drive. Joe

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Keywords are not false advertising

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Zane Where is the list of the top Supercomputers? Paxton

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Does DECNET = DECNET?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Here is the URL for the 'DECnet for Linux' Homepage. I'm in the process >of getting the latest version installed at this momnet. It looks like >they've made some serious improvements. >http://linux.dreamtime.org/decnet/ Hmm - it looks like they do Phase IV, SET HOST, and FAL, which I think is all you need. It looks like they've only done extensive testing under VMS, so it's possible that some of their tools assume VMS-ism's not present under RSX. But you won't know till you try! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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Warped or bent floppies

by djenner＠halcyon.com

I have a few floppies, both 8-inch and 5.25-inch, whose outer sleeves have been warped or bent due to various reasons over the years. Although it appears that the inner, flexible media are OK, I am reluctant to try to read and copy these without taking some sort of precautions. When I try to manually rotate the inner media, it is either very difficult or impossible without doing some harm to the floppy. (Usually, you can do this manually with only a little effort.) I worry that putting them into a drive may totally destroy the floppy. Some of these floppies (especially the 8-inchers) are up to 20 years old and contain what I now consider to be valuable material. I have successfully read and copied other floppies of the same vintage (and probably same origin) as these warped ones with no problems. So, what do I do? Is it conceivable to open and remove the inner media from the warped sleeves? Should I just try putting them under a pile of books to see if the warps decrease? Any ideas or practical experience with this would be greatly appreciated. Just for reference, in case the particulars help any, the 8-inch floppies are single-sided, single-density and were written on a DEC RX01 or equivalent. Most of the 5.25-inch floppies were written on an Apple II. Thanks, Dave

27 years, 4 months

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Keywords are not false advertising

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/98 3:05:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, yowza(a)yowza.com writes: > > The *beggining* of the Internet revolution? You missed it by almost 30 > years :-) (I was just talking to a guy who was there for the installation > of IMP #1 at UCLA.) > You are a pioneer. The revolution starts when it is being adopted by the masses. This is what is happening right now. Ebay is a part of it. The iMac is a part of it. Mass use of the Internet will change it so that the pioneers will have trouble recognizing it. The next few years will be interesting. Paxton

27 years, 4 months

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Keywords are not false advertising

by Innfogra＠aol.com

When you shop ebay you soon realize that to find anything you need to use a search engine. Search engines use keywords. Finding the right keywords that will find what you are looking for is difficult. I spend a lot of time going through completed auctions to try and figure out what keywords people use to describe their stuff. The question then becomes "What do I list this as, that will trip the keywords that people search for?" You end up packing the limited space for the description with keywords that are only related to the item you are selling. This is an unfortunate consequence of the Internet revolution, not false advertising. The Internet revolution is about making contacts. We are making new modes of how to do this. I have some gold chips that would be attractive to collectors (8080s, memory, 8008, etc.) but I have yet to figure out what to call them when I list them on ebay. I am spending considerable time to try and figure out what keywords people search for. I suspect my listings will be a mishmash of related words when I get done. When I list these next year I expect to see lots of chuckles about the prices I hope I am getting. I find the comments about high prices for collectibles very interesting. Sure you can find stuff going for hundreds of dollars. However if you search completed sales you will find that a full range of prices exist. What brings in top dollar are working machines, with accessories, software, documentation and original boxes. If it is non-working, missing parts it often sells at a reasonable price, a fraction of what the high end machines sell for. Another reason I see is for a low selling price is a poor choices of keywords. If people can't find you...... I appreciate the mention of the ebay listings. It helps me with my research and often provides a few chuckles when I look at what people want for their stuff. We are at the beginning of a revolution, I don't think anyone knows where it will shake out.

27 years, 4 months

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altaircomputers.org website

by daveygf＠aol.com

Complete ClassicCmp archives related to Altair are now on my website. Also, just added archives from various Usenet newsgroup discussin Altair computer family. Here is what I currently am working on: -adding software content -adding scanned pictures of Altair brochures -adding scans of advertisements from MITS -building a virtual museum If any of you would like to contribute to this effort send me your ideas! http://altaircomputers.org

27 years, 4 months

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ebay - Minivac 601, 1st pers. digital computer 1960s

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Interesting item on ebay. I hadn't heard of it but it looks like it is an >> interesting part of early computer history! The URL is: >Your ebay advertising service is great for ebay, and great for sellers, >but please consider what you do to the poor bidders who already know about >this stuff and have plans to bid on it. I dunno - I kind of like looking at pictures/descriptions of interesting items, and folks posting Ebay URL's often (maybe even usually) do a decent job of finding the "interesting" stuff. Of course, I also realize that there's no local shortage of interesting computer hardware free for the hauling, and am damn unlikely to bid on anything :-). I didn't think computer-collecting was such a competitive hobby, but some others evidently feel differently. I see way too many late 60's/ 70's minis and micros going through the scrap metal recyclers to think that there's any shortage of historical stuff to keep me busy. Tim.

27 years, 4 months

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DecSystem 5400 with RA90s and TK70 Available

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Jay Jaeger <cube(a)msn.fullfeed.com> wrote: >While I was at the regular weekly UW (Wisconsin) Friday surplus sale >I noticed a DecSystem 5400 with 2 RA90 disk drives and a >TK70 tape drive is available out there for $20, including a short rack. >The system looks very very clean, physically. I have no room for it. >It is not a MicroVAX, but is instead a RISC system, presumably using a MIPS >RISC processor. >The folks over there told me they are having a big sale December 29th, so >if you want it, you should probably grab it no later than that. They are >open every Friday AM from 8AM to 2PM, IIRC. Adam Fritzler <afritz(a)delphid.ml.org> >Wish I had enough to ship/get such a thing to AZ.... Someone tried to sell >me one of these locally about 8mo ago for about $800... >Nice boxes for their time. QBus version of the DECstation line of >MIPS-based machines. A 5400 uses a BA213 chassis. The lower portion is a 12 slot Qbus backplane. The upper section has room to mount a tape drive, and up to three RFxx series drives. The BA213 can be rack mounted, but mostly found in a stand alone case measuring around 14x20x27. The case has wheels which, given the weight of the thing, is nice. It uses a two board KN210 processor set, slot 1 being the I/O module and slot 2 being the CPU module. It will take up to four MS650 16Mb memory cards. The processor runs at 20Mhz. It has an MMJ console connector and both BNC and AUI Ethernet connectors. It will run Ultrix 3.1B or later. The RA90 drives are 1.2Gb. My point is that someone needs to haul this off. I have already got two of them, or might think about getting it myself. Actually too far away and the wrong time of the year. I had a dealer in IL offer me $150 for one, but I decided it was worth more just to play with. If someone gets this, I have the 5400 hardware manual and will answer what questions I can. I also have a manual on the RA90/RA92 and the SA600/SA800 Storage Array (that I suspect the drives are mounted in) that I don't need. Mike

27 years, 4 months

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Mainframes at Junk Yard

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>If it's a Univac I, I want it :-) That's what its labeled. Coleman's Surplus is at 360 Klinger Rd, Millersburg, PA 17061. Their web site is at <www.colemans.com>. No clue how much they wanted for it, but getting it out of there is the _real_ problem. Of course, getting it to California might be kind of challenging as well. :-) >I really don't know much about the >history of the Univac, but the same name was used for a bunch of quite >different machines I think. The first one was the direct descendent of >the ENIAC, so no, the "Uni" in Univac has nothing to do with Unix, if >that's what you're thinking. Yes, that's what I was thinking. >It sounds like quite a cool graveyard, though. I felt like quite the computer archaeologist. :-) Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 4 months

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Free ADM-5, other stuff, DC area

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

For anyone who wants a 17-year-old terminal that looks just like an iMac, I've got a Lear-Siegler ADM5 here that works and I'd like to give away. Pickup only, in Bethesda MD (just inside the Beltway). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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Does DECNET = DECNET?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

> >Life would be so much easier if I'd ever gotten a floppy drive working on >my main PDP-11/73. > > Zane What kind of problems are you having getting a floppy working in the 11/73. If you need an RX50 I have several you can have for the shipping I also have a few RX33's. Dan

27 years, 4 months

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Does DECNET = DECNET?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< How OS specific is DECNET? If I've got a Linux Box speaking DECNET (Yes < they do that now), can that same box do a 'set host' to a system runnin < DECNET on RSX-11M? I've used a Linux box to speak to a VAX before and i < worked quite well. Basically I'm more interested in transfering files t < the PDP-11 rather than logging into it over the net. Decnet sethost is similar to TELNET and is not specifically platform specific. File access maybe as VMS supports 36char filenames and versioning. < Oh, and I'm assuming I should get this working, is it possible to write < tape on RSX-11M that RT-11 can understand. I would assume so, but... It may be possible but the file system hooks may be subtle in their interface. I'd ecpect it to work but surprizes are possble. For me this is a good reason to get into linux. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Posted Yesterday Evening

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Last night I posted the following to my Web site: - 10/83 Article from Byte re: Motorola Educational Computing Board [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 4 months

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