- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I picked up an SE 4/20 for $5, but not getting any power at all. fan and hard drive wont spin, no image, nothing at all. i can verify that machine gets ac power, but nothing else. what else can i check? unfortunately, i dont have any electrical ability to test anything except for obvious problems. david

27 years, 3 months

4
3
0 0

Proper Diskette Usage and Care

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Er, Ah, is based on your experience Pete or is the result of years of testing? Joe :-) At 09:28 PM 1/6/99 -0000, you wrote: >I think this is relevant to most classic machines :) > > > Proper Diskette Usage and Care > > >(1) Never leave diskettes in the drive, as the data can leak > out of the disk and corrode the inner mechanics of the > drive. Diskettes should be rolled up and stored in > pencil holders. > >(2) Diskettes should be cleaned and waxed once a week. > Microscopic metal particles may be removed by waving a > powerful magnet over the surface of the disk. Any > stubborn metal shavings can be removed with scouring > powder and steel wool. When waxing a diskette, make sure > the surface is even. This will allow the diskette to > spin faster, resulting in better access time. > >(3) Do not fold diskettes unless they do not fit into the > drive. "Big" Diskettes may be folded and used in > "Little" drives. > >(4) Never insert a diskette into the drive upside down. The > data can fall off the surface of the disk and jam the > intricate mechanics of the drive. > >(5) Diskettes cannot be backed up by running them through a > photo copy machine. If your data is going to need to be > backed up, simply insert TWO diskettes into your drive. > Whenever you update a document, the data will be written > onto both disks. A handy tip for more legible backup > copies: Keep a container of iron filings at your desk. When > you need to make two copies, sprinkle iron filings > liberally between the diskettes before inserting them into > the drive. > >(6) Diskettes should not be removed or inserted from the > drive while the red light is on or flashing. Doing so > could result in smeared or possibly unreadable text. > Occasionally, the red light remains flashing in what is > known as a "hung" or "hooked" state. If your system is > hooking, you will probably need to insert a few coins > before being allowed to access the slot. > >(7) If your diskette is full and needs more storage space, > remove the disk from the drive and shake vigorously for > two minutes. This will pack the data enough (data > compression) to allow for more storage. Be sure to cover > all openings with scotch tape to prevent loss of data. > >(8) Data access time may be greatly improved by cutting more > holes in the diskette jacket. This will provide more > simultaneous access points to the disk. > >(9) Periodically spray diskettes with insecticide to prevent > system bugs from spreading..... > >Regards >Pete > >Regards >Pete >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

FWD: Large computer in the UK...

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Well, it is better than seeing the thing go to scrap! Most of us on this Well said! Hear, Hear! > list can say they are microcomputer collectors, maybe a third can say they > are mini or workstation collectors, a few of us can say we are mainframe > collectors, but I do not think anyone can claim to be a supercomputer > collector yet! AFAIK, Tony Duell has that honour, though his supercomputer (a DAP from 1989) is somewhat smaller - a largish desk-side IIRC. Tony, now your DAP is 10 years old, how about telling the list some more about it. Philip. PS In the UK, you need an LGV (light goods vehicle) driving licence for anything above 3.5 tons unladen, and an HGV driving licence for anything above 7.5 tons. Anyone know what you could put in a 3 ton truck? My own truck, 0.9 tons unladen, can carry 0.5 tons payload, but I imagine the ratio has improved since the 1940s... On the other hand, I know someone who is an HGV driving instructor so if these opportunities are going to come up, perhaps I should ask him for a few lessons... P.

27 years, 3 months

4
4
0 0

Message formats

by Watzman＠ibm.net

I am NOT sending in HTML format, but it is MIME encoded. Sorry, but I use my E-Mail client (Windows messaging) for more than just this discussion group, and I need the ability to send and receive formatted text for some of them, including my employer. I'm not going to change formats on a message-by-message basis just to eliminate the equals signs at the ends of the lines.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

FWD: Large computer in the UK...

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> I'm not sure I'd call it a supercomputer. A parallel machine, certainly. > A SIMD machine, certainly. What does SIMD stand for? What can this thing do? Does it have any permanent storage devices? How fast is it?

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Proper Diskette Usage and Care

by msteele＠joules.enterprise-plc.com

I think this is relevant to most classic machines :) Proper Diskette Usage and Care (1) Never leave diskettes in the drive, as the data can leak out of the disk and corrode the inner mechanics of the drive. Diskettes should be rolled up and stored in pencil holders. (2) Diskettes should be cleaned and waxed once a week. Microscopic metal particles may be removed by waving a powerful magnet over the surface of the disk. Any stubborn metal shavings can be removed with scouring powder and steel wool. When waxing a diskette, make sure the surface is even. This will allow the diskette to spin faster, resulting in better access time. (3) Do not fold diskettes unless they do not fit into the drive. "Big" Diskettes may be folded and used in "Little" drives. (4) Never insert a diskette into the drive upside down. The data can fall off the surface of the disk and jam the intricate mechanics of the drive. (5) Diskettes cannot be backed up by running them through a photo copy machine. If your data is going to need to be backed up, simply insert TWO diskettes into your drive. Whenever you update a document, the data will be written onto both disks. A handy tip for more legible backup copies: Keep a container of iron filings at your desk. When you need to make two copies, sprinkle iron filings liberally between the diskettes before inserting them into the drive. (6) Diskettes should not be removed or inserted from the drive while the red light is on or flashing. Doing so could result in smeared or possibly unreadable text. Occasionally, the red light remains flashing in what is known as a "hung" or "hooked" state. If your system is hooking, you will probably need to insert a few coins before being allowed to access the slot. (7) If your diskette is full and needs more storage space, remove the disk from the drive and shake vigorously for two minutes. This will pack the data enough (data compression) to allow for more storage. Be sure to cover all openings with scotch tape to prevent loss of data. (8) Data access time may be greatly improved by cutting more holes in the diskette jacket. This will provide more simultaneous access points to the disk. (9) Periodically spray diskettes with insecticide to prevent system bugs from spreading..... Regards Pete Regards Pete

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Hayes closing its doors

by rcini＠msn.com

In case no one saw this in the paper this morning: "The Hayes Corporation, a company that once dominated the personal-computer modem business, is shutting down after failing to find a buyer. About 250 employees were laid off on Monday, leaving only a handful. The company sought protection from creditors in October, in its second trip to bankruptcy court in the 1990's, and attempted a reorganization under Chapter 11 on the United States Bankruptcy Code as it talked to potential buyers. But its primary lender notified the company that it would not continue efforts to keep Hayes alive. Hayes owes some $42 million ot creditors that includes NationsCredit, Lucent Technologies, and Rockwell Semiconductor Systems." Another one "bytes" the dust... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Available: cards for HP 9000/850 3000/950 3000/960

by sieler＠allegro.com

Hi, If anyone is interested in cards for the early PA-RISC machines: 9000/850 9000/860 (HP-UX) 3000/950 3000/960 (MPE/iX) let me know via email to: sieler(a)allegro.com The cards are HP-IB, HP-FL, and 802.3 interface cards. A friend has some, and I'll pass your name/email on to her. -- Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com http://www.allegro.com/sieler.html

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Xpost: PDP-6 ASM language manual available

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Clipped this from the Obsolete Computer Helpline - if interested contact Pat at the email address below, not me. Pat Stakem <stakem(a)loyola.edu> Columbia, MD usa - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 19:04:31 Does any one need a PDP-6 Macro-6 Assembly language manual? 1965, DEC-6-0-tp-mac-lm-act02 ..pat

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

FWD: Large computer in the UK...

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 10:42 AM 1/6/99 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > >Dammit...why do all of the surplus supers turn up overseas and not on the >East Coast or Midwest? If this Hitachi was within 1000 miles or so from >Carmel, New York, I might just do something foolish. How the hell would you move 14 tons of computer??? > >Yes, I have the room for something this size. To do what? Move into it? :-)

27 years, 3 months

4
5
0 0

Looking for PolaPulse or equivalent

by mbg＠world.std.com

>>I've been busy making room for my newest haul... the pdp-8s. > >Tell us -8 owners more.... I don't actually have the machines yet... I have to make room for them first. I'll be getting pdp-8/a pdp-8/m pdp-8/e lab-8 (w/scope) pdp-11/34 (w/vt11, vr14 and light pen) manuals spares I'm going to be getting the manuals and spares and anything small I can fit in my car first. Then I'll get the 11/34 and one of the -8s, which are mounted in a DEC corporate short cab. Once this is in place at home, I'll go back for the two tall cabs which house the other three -8s and their devices. There are no connections between the tall cabs and the short cab, which is why that will be moderatly easy. I don't yet know if there are connections between the two tall cabs... I'll have to remove the systems to reduce the cab weight... so I'll be marking lots of cabling (i expect) to ensure it all goes back together successfully. I will admit that I am not going to keep it all... I do plan on keeping the 11/34, the lab-8 and the 8/e. One of the remaining -8s is destined for a friend, and the last one I will probably make available to someone from this list (please, NO mail at this time... operators are NOT standing by) once I figure out an equitable way to do so... First things first, however. I have to GET the stuff before I do anything else... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

y2k stuff

by mbg＠world.std.com

>What boggles the mind is that this is a problem at all. It seems hard to >believe (in retrospect) that people really did deliberately build >software with only 2 digit years. I know it saved a few bytes, and yes, >I remember when a byte of memory was a significant amount, but still. >How did standard programming practice come to be so short sighted as to >assume that software infrastructure would be thrown out and replaced on >a regular basis? The problem is that it isn't just one problem... it is a series of problems, some of which have already been addressed over the years. It isn't just that software only handled two-digit years. That is, at best, simplistic, and at worst, just plain wrong. The fact is that there are numerous levels to the problem. Let me enumerate some of them... o Boot code - Does the hardware have a calender/clock? How does it store the date? How does one set the date? How does it report the date? An example of this is the 11/93 o Adapters/controllers - Do they have an internal calendar/clock? How do they store the date? How is the date set? How is the date reported? An example of this is are the RF series DSSI disks... they seem to have a built in clock and can report dates/times and even when the device was last powered on. Also, some devices will report date information, but only once it is set by the host operating system - an example is the DELQA, which reports date/time in a MOP System ID packet. o The operating system - how does it store the date? How does it accept the date? How does it report the date? RT-11, for example, stored years in 5-bit fields and the base year was 1972... which would work to 2003, but there were other problems. This was upgraded to 7-bits worth of info, which increased the range from 1972 to 2099, but there were still problems with other parts of the system -- Mentec's V5.7 addresses this. What about pdp-8s? They have been through the end of their epoch several times over... What about tops-10? What about Unix, which breaks in 2038... o The on-disk directory structure - How is the date encoded? o Applications - Are they concerned with the date? Do commands allow date specifications? In what form? How is date info reported? o *DATA* - what about all those data files which have been recorded over the years? What form was date stored? And I'm sure others can come up with more levels... these were just those which I could come up in 5 minutes of thinking... Keep in mind that when many institutions report they are working on Y2k issues... it is probably only billing. What about hospitals and the embedded controls in, for example, patient-controlled analgesia? There are going to be more and more failures as we get closer. Last year, there was a report that an insurance company which normally issued 3-year policies could only do two-year. If they haven't fixed the problem, they're probably down to one year now... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer (Not speaking for Compaq) +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

FWD: Large computer in the UK...

by kevan＠heydon.org

I found this on one of the uk news groups. It is out of my league but someone might be interested. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: nmm1(a)cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Newsgroups: uk.comp.misc Subject: Decommissioning large computers Date: 5 Jan 1999 19:09:37 GMT Organization: University of Cambridge, England Message-ID: <76to1h$oet$1(a)pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> 25 years ago, this was a sufficiently common activity that there were companies specialising in it .... We are likely to want to decommission a large computer for scrap in the near future, and are trying to find a company that will do it most economically and with least damage to the machine room. It is about 14 tons (I think), and includes a lot of heavy copper cabling, and may have more salvageable materials in the main boxes. Any serious suggestions as to who to approach gratefully received; I won't ask if anyone has done this recently, for obvious reasons :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email: nmm1(a)cam.ac.uk Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 ------- End of forwarded message -------

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Y2K

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 993 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990105/8c0c5690/at…

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

FWD: Large computer in the UK...

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Kevan Heydon reported Nick Maclaren as haveing said: > We are likely to want to decommission a large computer for scrap in > the near future, and are trying to find a company that will do it > most economically and with least damage to the machine room. It is > about 14 tons (I think), and includes a lot of heavy copper cabling, > and may have more salvageable materials in the main boxes. I'm tempted to suggest the Cambridge University Computer Preservation Society, just to annoy them :-) I suspect that this is the old IBM 3084 that ran Phoenix. Any Cambridge people with more info? More to the point, what is to become of the software? Tapes? etc. I'd love it but I (a) have nowhere to put it and (b) have difficulty transporting anything over 1/2 ton. Philip.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

IBM PS/2 P70-386 SIMM needed...+ a couple other things...

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I need a 2MB SIMM for an IBM PS/2 P70-386. I know they go in in sets of two's, but for some reason, I have a spare SIMM that I found. Does anyone know where I could find one for a reasonable price (under $10)? I also need a display hinge (right side) for the P70. The one is broken. It still works, but sometimes gets annoying when I try to fold it up (that's also the side with the latch). ****this one's off-topic**** Does anyone know where to find a replacement head assembly for a Mitsubishi MF355H-394MW 1.44" floppy drive? It's from a Compaq 5000 series laptop, and some how the lower head seems to have disappeared. Everything's there (wire coils, head mount etc.). I think the glue that held the pick-up (is that the right name?) came loose. ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

External CD-ROM Needed

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hello everyone. My school has an old PS/2 Model 70 (386-16, 4mb RAM). They want to install some software on it which is on CD-ROM. Being a PS/2, there is no room for an internal CD-ROM, so I told them I'd look into get an old external for them. What I'm looking for is either a parallel interface drive, or a drive with an MCA controller card (there's one free slot). Being that the computer is a 386-16, speed is not of importance, and even a single-speed would be sufficient. A parallel interface one would probably be best, since they could use it on a few of their other non-PS/2 systems (286's, 386's) that they don't want to spend money to put an internal drive in. I'm not looking for anything very expensive, since I'll be paying for it, then donating it to the school. ThanX in AdvancE, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> PS>> Not having to do with the school, but does anyone know where I would be able to find a hinge for the display of a PS/2 luggable without going directly through IBM? -thanx.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 6 January 1999 18:45 Subject: Re: Y2K >On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Computer Room Internet Cafe wrote: > >> about date useage outside America. I know there are 250+ million of >> you, but we're not the 53rd state. (Yet anyway) We "ain't gonna" > >That's interesting. I must've missed the news about the 51st and 52nd >states being added to the Union :) I was acting on the assumption that Puerto Rico and maybe American Samoa would get in before us. :^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 09:08 PM 05-01-99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >That's interesting. I must've missed the news about the 51st and 52nd >states being added to the Union :) A common mistake made by a number of us non-US assimilated citizens :-) Confusion with the number of weeks in the year me thinks.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Looking for PolaPulse or equivalent

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I couldn't find a picture of it on Megan's web page, but I'm fairly sure >that this was the hand-held "terminal" provided by Digital to FS >personnel to allow them to use the diagnostic serial port on RA disks. I >remember our FS guy having one, we used it for about 10 minutes before I >connected our GIGI up - so much easier to use... There's no picture yet because there aren't any pictures yet for anything... I've taken some (including the IXO terminal) but have not yet 1) developed them, 2) scanned them in, and 3) included the image code in the document. Maybe I should put this as one of my listed projects... I've been busy making room for my newest haul... the pdp-8s. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

R.I.P. Hayes

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Any addresses to get more info? All I saw was a post Slashdot.org, which had a link to a C|Net article saying basically that Hayes is liquidating its assets and closed yesterday. There is also a little stock ticker that says: "Hayes: N/A" :)

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Y2K

by Watzman＠ibm.net

I'm heavily involved with Y2K issues, and there are going to be plenty of real problems, and not all of them will be on January 1. There was a story in todays Wall St. Journal about an aluminum smelter that shut down because it couldn't handle the leap year in 1996 ! It did half a million dollars worth of damage. We have discovered access control systems (doors with electronic locks and swipe cards or keypads to gain entry) that have y2K problems -- they know the date, because they know which shifts and days of the week people work, and only allow access while a person is actually "on duty". When they get confused or detect any problem, they go to an "all-open" state, to prevent the possibility of locking someone up in a fire situation. Which is fine, but some of these systems are installed in hospitals (including mental hospitals) and prisons. We thought our printers didn't care about dates, but low and behold, we found a bank passbook printer that DID care about dates, and it malfunctioned when fed a y2k date. Admittedly only a cosmetic problem, but a problem none the less. The FDA has found seven medical devices that have malfunctioned in 1999 (already). Seems that "99" in the year field had a special meaning (we've found this in a LOT of systems). At first these looked like cosmetic problems only, the date is not functionally used, but is printed on a printer. Until it became clear that such printouts could cause a physician to conclude that a patient's blood pressure was going up instead of down. Or that his EKG was getting better instead of worse. According to a recent SEC filing by AT&T, the company acknowledges that they cannot guarantee that they will complete their y2k work in time, and they will not guarantee that some of the possibly unfixed issues will not cause service interruptions, possibly extended. The truth is, I can't tell you if any of the "nightmare" scenarios will happen or not, and y2k might indeed seem to have been hype if none of them do. Further, anyone who makes a prediction is doing nothing but guessing. But be aware that over half a TRILLION dollars will have been spent on this, so I can assure you that whatever happens on 1/1/99 (or later, in particular at the end of February of 1999), IT WAS NOT HYPE. Barry Watzman PS - and while we are spending the money to at least attempt to address it, bear in mind that Europe is WAY behind, and Asia Pacific has been too busy trying to survive to have even looked ahead to recognize that the end of the century is coming.

27 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

5155 floppy fixed

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

turns out the reason for the post error on my 5155 was because the head was sticking and couldnt do the initial seek, thus causing the 601 post. tony was right! i didnt bother with greasing it and swapped out an identical floppy drive from an extra pcjr. anyone want a pcjr unit for the price of shipping? david

27 years, 3 months

8
10
0 0

y2k stuff

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I, for one, would like to see the discussion swing back to Classic Computer, not Y2K problems. A

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

y2k stuff

by KFergason＠aol.com

The 11 year cycle is the sunspot cycle, any ham radio guy knows of it. communications on the various bands are affected. and, i have read that is is possible for "cosmic rays" to affect electronics. apparently, its one of those 1 in a billion billion type of things. i was doing some research on memory and came across it. again, just not very likely. kelly In a message dated 1/5/99 3:15:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > I have heard them all! This is going to have even less of an effect that > any software problems! > > > > > >>> > > Every 11 years the sun sends storms of cosmic rays which disrupt all sorts > > Cosmic rays are coming all the time. > > > of electrical devices. The last was in 1989, and they are due again in > > 2000. 1978 was also a year effected by mega cosmic rays and was > > coincidentally the first year of Expansion Interface manufacture. Could > > the rays have been the source of the EIs poor performance? I have a 1978 > EI > > Even if cosmic rays did have a major effect on computers (and AFAIK they > don't) then the date of manufacture wouldn't make any difference. What > would matter is the cosmic ray flux _now_. >

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Y2K

by mbg＠world.std.com

>And PLEASE turn off the Microtrash HTML nonsense, it's rude to send HTML >to a mailing list. Rememeber there are a lot of people that don't read >your messages because they are being sent in HTML. A lot/most people, >especially on this mailing list, are using software that doesn't cope >with HTML. Hear-Hear... Keep in mind that this is 'classiccmp' -- we're probably also using classic software... (and that includes unix, due to its age) :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

TI99: SCSI devices

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<<Brainstorming mode on:> <Is IDE geared in any way to the MS-DOS filesystem? No. It's a device level interconnect similar to SCSI or other busses. In practice it's a 16bit data bus, several control lines and a few address bits. It was a result of putting the early PCbus MFM(or rll) card in the MFM hard disk to make it a single unit. The WD1003 MFM ISA16 (PC) bus card is a very similar interface when viewed from the ISA16(PC AT and later 386/486 sytems) bus. What IDE did was allowed the PC to offload one board (Disk controller) onto the disk drive (IDE= Integral drive electronics) and created a simple disk interface connector/cable that was cheaper than SCSI but offered many similar features of SCSI interfaced disks sans the greater cost. The drive and it's IDE interface is a series of registers for parameters and data transfer and it cares less what operating system is in effect. About the only difficulty is interfacing the 16bit wide(for data, 8bit for commands) bus to whatever the local CPU/BUS is in use. that logic is nearly the reverse of the 99/4a 16bit->8bit for the PEB. One could do a kluge and not use the high order bits as they are data only. However that means the default 512byte sector size would only hold 256bytes of data (with large drives dirt cheap this is not so bad!). I personally don't like that but it'd work. The interface is basically a series of registers that set up the transfer with data like command, head, sector, cylinder and number of sectors (transfer length). The interface does not have to keep up with the physical media as even the smallest ones have a 32k (up to 512k) cache ram on board so that if can feed data fast (or slow) as the host desires it. Most of the 60-100meg and later drives (quantum is known for it) have a LRU cache so that the drive can try to anticipate the next likely sector to transfer to avoid rotational latentcy. While the drives are hyped and speced for fast transfer rateds to their host system there is no requirement to use that speed as there is no lower limit. Because of the cache a polled interface is easy to do and there are no requirements for critical fast loops to avoid loosing data. I happen to use IDE with FreeBSD(on PC hardware) and also a Z80 CP/m system. Both are about as unDOS as they can get. DSR level issues are things like are there logical limits to how big a TI99/4a file system can be. Also how does one write a DSR that uses any one of several hundred differnt IDE drives of differnt sizes and configurations? IE: 20mb as 4 heads 615 cylinders of 17 sectors or 306 cylinders and 8 heads? PCs (CP/M and others) have the idea of a bios that translates differnt physical devices to look like one logical interface. Sadly most DSRs were not written that way. Having a differnt DSR for a WD 240mb and a shugart 340mb would be a real problem. Also the older drives are dumber and cannot tell the system what they are (configuration), the later (mostly over 200mb) drives added that functionality. So there would also have to be configuration tools and some amount of NVram(EEPROM) on the board to allow for whatever drive was available from the older 40mb up to the current 19gb drives. I'd point out that the drives in the 80-400mb range seem to be more inconsistant than the larger ones. Also drives over 512mb have additional fuctionality so that they can be addressed as block instead of cylinder, head, sector. So the driver (DSR) has to be a bit smart so that it know what class of IDE drive and what capabilities are available. That's a real tall order! So that is why I say the physical interface is trivial compared to the DSR. It can be done as many of the same problem occur with SCSI but the DSR will have a lot of differences at the lower levels of code. Judging from the SCSI dificulties reported here that wasn't easy either. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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y2k stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The story on cosmic rays affecting memory is well-known. It was proposed <as the reason why one of the early 4Kbit (I think) chips had a very high <error rate. It was later found (I think) that the real reason was alpha <particles from the radioactive decay of something in the (ceramic?) <package of the chip. it originated with the transiston from 16k Drams to 64kdrams as the feature size was small enough that an Alpha particle hitting a sense line or other die level feature could offset the charge on the capacitor(storage element). Also different refresh schemes, better logic, faster parts and fewer interconnects all contributed to this soft error rate going down rather than up. The source of the particale was the gold eutectic bond used to hold the die to the lead frame or the lide for the brazed lid cases. The solution was a overcoat of particle absorbing material on the die. Since there there has been a many fold(or greater) geometry shrink to get the current megabyte parts and we do not have the forcasted problem, though the potential exists. It's not to say the problem wasn't real but win95 crashes(on its own) more often than the probability of a actual soft error in practice. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K

by Watzman＠ibm.net

I'm sick of hearing that this proble occured because people were trying to save bytes. I was doing COBOL programming in the 70's, I probably wrote code that would have y2k problems, and saving bytes had nothing to do with it. The problem arises simply because people (programmers included) normally write dates in the format "mm/dd/yy", as in 12/31/99. Not just in computer programs, but in normal, day-to-day lives. It's that simple, and that is all that there is to it. Barry Watzman

27 years, 3 months

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That does not compute

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 07:21 PM 31-12-98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >Well, certainly the '@' symbol was entirely useless until internet e-mail. >And how many people actually use function keys any more in the age of the >GUI and mouse? Apart from those Digital DCL users who have been using it to invoke command procedures for about 25 years and TOPS-10 users who used it for I/O redirection for even longer.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 3 months

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Looking for PolaPulse or equivalent

by mbg＠world.std.com

Thanks, I got the pointer for polaroid... I'm going to follow up on it. As for a vt100 clone -- 1 line of 16 characters? not much of a terminal... but I guess enough if there isn' t much data which has to go back and forth... Megan

27 years, 3 months

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Blue LCD displays

by Watzman＠ibm.net

The blue color of Zenith and some other monochrome LCD displays is caused by the backlight. These displays use an electroluminescent panel behind the entire LCD screen, and it gives off a blue light. Most current LCD displays use flourescent tubes either behind or on the sides of the displays, with a variety of optical diffusers. Flourescent tubes, of course, give off white light. Barry Watzman

27 years, 3 months

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Intel Prompt 48

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I know next to nothing about it and had no time to play with it, but I <assume it's an 8048 SBC with hex keypad, 7-seg LEDs, PROM programmer, etc. <from around 1977. < <I don't suppose anybody has docs or specs for this, eh? Did I mention <RARE? Anything but rare. It was the development, pre-ICEand eprom version programmer for the 8048 and 8049 (also 874x) parts. It has asimple debug monitor and also download capability. Many are still in use as the 874x parts are still in manufacture and use for low end controllers. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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[Fwd: fwd: Y2K Computer Glitches Hit Sweden Taxis, Gas Pumps]

by wpe101＠banet.net

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: fwd: Y2K Computer Glitches Hit Sweden Taxis, Gas Pumps Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:33:30 EST From: "Willis Emerson" <wemerson(a)natick-amed02.army.mil> Reply-To: <wemerson(a)natick-amed02.army.mil> To: <wpe101(a)banet.net> ---------- Original Text ---------- From: AMSSCSIM@IMD@natick, on 1/5/99 2:40 PM: To: *@* Cc: AMSSCSIM@IMD@natick ---------- Original Text ---------- From: AMSSCSIM@IMD@natick, on 1/5/99 2:27 PM: To: AMSSCSIM@IMD@natick Y2K computer glitches hit Sweden taxis, gas pumps. STOCKHOLM, Sweden - For a while, some taxi passengers got unexpectedly cheap rides and some motorists had trouble buying gas due to computer glitches that accompanied the new year in Sweden. Stockholm's largest taxi service recently changed the way it calculates fares. But when 1998 became 1999, some of its computers didn't adjust properly and passengers were charged normal rates, instead of the higher holiday and late-hour fares. "The problem has been patched, and now we'll get to the root of the problem," Taxi Stockholm managing director Anders Malmqvist said in a telephone interview Saturday. Customers of Statoil, Norway's state oil company that operates about 600 gas stations in Sweden, couldn't use their credit cards Friday because pumps were programmed to accept them only through December 1998. "There was nothing wrong in the data technology, but rather it was we who programmed badly," Statoil spokesman Henrik Siden told the regional newspaper Oestgoeta Correspondenten. The day before, police at Stockholm's Arlanda international airport were temporarily unable to issue provisional travel documents to four travelers who had misplaced their passports, the Swedish news agency TT reported. When they attempted to input the date, some computers would not accept "99" and transmitted in response: "end of run" or "end of file."

27 years, 3 months

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R.I.P. Hayes

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Any addresses to get more info? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:28 PM Subject: R.I.P. Hayes >Just so everyone knows, > >Hayes is gone. They closed down for good yesterday. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >----- >Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor >

27 years, 3 months

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Win95 in running very slowly shocker!

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

Russ Blakeman >As for the SX to DX thing, have you added a math coprocessor? I know when I >added a 487 to my wife's P70 portable that we chaged the 386DX-20 out with a >"Make It 486" processor it went from showing 486SX in MSD to a 486DX, probably >due to the presence of the FPU. No, the only change I've made is to add an IDE 2x CD-ROM drive and install a copy of Win95. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star"

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K stuff

by mbg＠world.std.com

>This is exactly the stuff I refer to. Whay would an elevator care what >year it is? Some do days of the week but their clock is not date but >_day_ so that say on sunday you need a pass key to get in a building that >would be open during the week. That as far as they go, very >minimalistic. It may only care about date, but depending on how the application was written, it may calculate the day of week based on the *date*, or it could simply count days 1-7 (rinse) and repeat. If the latter, no problem... if the former, then the programming will drift over the years, only getting it right again 28 years later... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

"rolls over" every 20 years, and the first such rollover will be during <August of this year. The problem is expected to cause problems in some <receivers, perhaps causing erroneous output (unlikely) or possibly "loss o <acquisition" when the receiver decides to listen to the wrong constellation The system does not lock if the geometry is poor or the required tests fail. It's designed to not give error filled results. I'd bet though it will ride through it with minimal problems as most aircraft GPS use multiple sats and the really big ones like on Commercial also have inertial systems to check against. None fly single system and the whiskey compas is still there to check the tube! Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Fw: y2k stuff

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hey - It was on the comp.sys.tandy newsgroup.... -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 12:36 AM Subject: Re: y2k stuff >As Bill Gates would say, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If >cosmic rays were to blame for the EIs suckiness then every computer back >then would have had similar problems. No, you can't blame Radio Shack's >sorry-assed engineering on cosmic rays, but nice try. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 12/27/98] > >

27 years, 3 months

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(Fwd) BASIC+ on PDP11 porting

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Can anyone help him? Email them directly. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: BJones8nr(a)aol.com Date sent: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:48:43 EST Subject: BASIC+ on PDP11 porting Hi Do you know of any source code porting packages to get from BASIC+ to VMS BASIC or VB Cheers Bryn Jones --------------------End Forwarded Message---------------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 3 months

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y2k ramblings

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 02:56 AM 1/5/99 -0500, Ward wrote: >Tony Duell wrote: >> > > And if I hear one more person who claims the Millennium is the 31/12/1999 >> > >> > > - 01/01/2000 (as opposed to the correct date of 1 year later), I am >> > > liable to get out a very large LART.. >(Forget the argument when the 2nd millennium starts -- yes, there was >no Year Zero, but the majority of voters are impressed by the row of >zeroes in the coming year number -- democratically, we lose. Let them >celebrate their millennium, nick the booze from their parties, then we >can have a proper party a year later. Inviting those who can count.) >-- These conversations have made me think about time. The key word above, IMO, is the last one, _count_. Does one count or measure time? In an analog clock, a minute starts at 60 = 00 seconds, not one. It is measured. Once you get to hours, it is mixed. They are numbered 1 to 12, but the morning/evening starts at 12:00. I used to always be confused when, for example, 12:30 AM was. In early digital clocks, one had to somehow "adjust" the hours display as a mod 12 counter typically counts 0 ..11. Suppose an analog computer is made as a clock. Say using voltage ramps. If seconds were mV, the sawtooth would be reset at 60mV. Same for an index mark on revolving disks. This could also be for hours, months, years, etc. So for an counting computer it is 2001, but maybe for a measuring computer, it is 2000?? End of rambling. The issue I guess isn't the millenniun, but how computers handle the year 2000. Don't be surprised if next year my messages are dated 1980. -Dave

27 years, 3 months

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5155 floppy fixed

by amirault＠epix.net

Hi, When you say Jr unit, do you mean the complete CPU or just the disk drive? I am a PCJr collector and would be willing to pay shipping. Please Email me @ amirault(a)epix.net to make arrangements. Thank you. John Amirault -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 1:08 PM Subject: Re: 5155 floppy fixed >> >> turns out the reason for the post error on my 5155 was because the head was >> sticking and couldnt do the initial seek, thus causing the 601 post. tony was >> right! i didnt bother with greasing it and swapped out an identical floppy >> drive from an extra pcjr. anyone want a pcjr unit for the price of shipping? > >Oh come on... We're supposed to be preserving classics and not stripping >them for parts unless there's a very good reason. > >Anyway, it probably took more time to find the jr, open it up, and remove >the drive than it would have done to put a couple of drops of oil (or >better still dry film lubricant) on the rails and work the head back and >forth a few times. > >> >> david >> > >-tony > >

27 years, 3 months

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y2k stuff

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I found this in a newsgroup. No telling how much of an affect it will actually have on computers, but something else to consider when talking about Y2k stuff... >>> Every 11 years the sun sends storms of cosmic rays which disrupt all sorts of electrical devices. The last was in 1989, and they are due again in 2000. 1978 was also a year effected by mega cosmic rays and was coincidentally the first year of Expansion Interface manufacture. Could the rays have been the source of the EIs poor performance? I have a 1978 EI and its never missed a beat, but I didn't own it in '78. Its all buffered, probably against cosmic onslaughts. >>> -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

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selling a blank floppy disk

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> And if I hear one more person who claims the Millennium is the 31/12/1999 > - 01/01/2000 (as opposed to the correct date of 1 year later), I am > liable to get out a very large LART.. Whoever said anything about it being the Millennium? It's just the year 2000, and I think that's important enough!

27 years, 3 months

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Why you won't fly on 1/1/00

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 5 January 1999 12:36 Subject: Re: Why you won't fly on 1/1/00 >All of my programming life, software developers have been >able to get away with shipping buggy software with >virtually no liability. Now companies are already being sued for this >particular bug by their customers. Having read the so called "warranty" on the Windows (and other) software packages, Microsoft is in big trouble if that is the case. It amazes me how they have gotten away with selling stuff that is essentially guaranteed only to take up disk space. >A new breed of lawyer is being hatched: >those who are trained to sue for software defects. They are going to be busy boys/girls. And get rich. >Prediction: the year 2000 will be the first year software malpractice >insurance is offered. In the USA, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K stuff

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Is it? My current credit card has an expiry date after the end of this > year and I've never had any problems with it. I read that it has happened in one of those panicky articles. I guess it was fixed the day after someone became aware of the problem. > Sure. Nobody is saying that you shouldn't check things. Just as I don't > expect a power cut at the end of this year, but I'll have a working torch > (flashlight) in the house. I always do. Power failures can occur. I just > don't expect the date per se to be a particularly likely cause of one. I think that 'maintenance errors' could potentially occur in power plants, and what is more likely, some will be shut down just in case.

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<elevator to stop working when you're trying to make the appointment on the <40th floor, would you? Sure, it could fail for other reasons too, but this <is something that ought to be double-checked since we know about it. This is exactly the stuff I refer to. Whay would an elevator care what year it is? Some do days of the week but their clock is not date but _day_ so that say on sunday you need a pass key to get in a building that would be open during the week. That as far as they go, very minimalistic. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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selling a blank floppy disk

by Pjoules1＠cs.com

In a message dated 03/01/99 21:46:40 GMT Standard Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > What's so interesting about 2000? It's not a power of 2 (:-))... Yes lets start a Y2k campaign for the correct year - 2048 ;-) Regards Pete

27 years, 3 months

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Why you won't fly on 1/1/00

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>Yet another reason to prefer open-source tools whenever possible. Yeah - and be sure to check out the Unix 'cal' utility, it even gets Sept. 1752 correct ($cal 9 1752), actually, correct in Britain and the colonies, as well as 1 2000. http://home.earthlink.net/~aske/nature/calendar.htm Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 3 months

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Why you won't fly on 1/1/00

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>This is my biggest fear of Y2K. All of my programming life, software >developers have been able to get away with shipping buggy software with >virtually no liability. Now companies are already being sued for this Gentelpersons - certainly have been enjoying the thoughts on y2k, pretty much matches my thoughts. As for the above, just look at the Microsoft y2k statements, which claim to be compliant, immediately followed by the big screaming-caps legal boilerplate saying "but if your business fails due to ANY bug in the SOFTWARE, you can't sue me, nyah nyah-nyah nyah nyah, nyah". I think the right to peddle buggy software must be protected by 1st amendment free speech. My elder brother works with credit card processing in San Jose' and last August he wrote: " I have cards that expire now in 06/01 and 05/00 I believe. Anyway, I have not had any problem using them. I know for a fact that this is one of the issues that had to be dealt with last year. In fact, for a while there, we had to ignore expiration dates in the processing." Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 3 months

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Fujitsu ESDI Drive Jumper Settings

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

Does anyone have any clues about where to get jumper settings for a Fujitsu M2263E ? Fujutsu's websites ignore the existence of ESDI drives. I've also tried The Ref and Blue Planet who seem to have got their data from Fujitsu's sites. This is a 600Mb drive and has what looks like write protect set for the partition area. Hans Olminkhof

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> times per year). Last I looked I've never seen an airport move. My <> Cessna will continue to fly unimpeded < <Unless the automatic control system of some other aircraft fails and <causes it to fly into you :-(. Not that I believe for one nanosecond that <this is going to happen due to the change in year. Correct. NONE of the autopilot systems are date based/biased. Also the general design of aircraft systems is one of fail soft. Fail soft is simple fail to the least dangerous mode or disengage for manual override. So in the case of GPS with databases (maps) they fail such that you can only use the map for manual reference or emergency modes but the nav functions (whch way and all) are unaffected. Actually it's less a problem than that. Likely the ticketing systems or ground baggage handling are more suspect as they are not "safety of flight". <don't see why castings and gears and leadscrews and ... would care. <Actually I can't see why CNC systems would fail either, but manually <operated tools certainly will keep working. Unlikely, all the PDP8based system that do have any date function similar to OS/8 would have seen that problem every 7 years! <Yes, it's scare mongering. And that's the bigest problem - the public <panic that this could cause. That worries me a lot more than any minor <problems that may occur. All too true. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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6809 vs. '286 (long - Was: Re: Still OT: Pentium / M$

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<If that's true, I'd really like a PDP-11! ;-) I have a few they are fun. <> It was however, slow! < <Compared to what? Clock per clock, it was the fastest thing for quite a <long time. And remember, the 6809 was *not* the fastest of the fast Compared by instruction cycle time. <8-bitters... ever heard of a *6309*??? Pretty rare critter there! Made by <Hitachi as an OEM to Motorola, CMOS, 3MHz (most overclockable to 4MHz) and <would kick a '286 in the backside easier than anything 8-bit (with 6309 <hand-optimized code) -- it did have twice the registers of the 6809 and ha <-- no typo here -- 32 bit math capabilities. Well I am familiar and the 6309 was still not so fast. It was however programtically efficient. Well written programs used less code and therefore executed quickly. Also the extra registers and long math made it particulary nice for compiler target for C language. <>Comparing it to a 286/10mhz, sorry, no way. < <I did it. Admittedly, it wasn't *purely* apples to apples comparison, but <took totally portable M$Basic programs doing integer & real math, and <integer, real & string sorting, and ran them in RS-DOS on a CoCo2 and in <Basic & BasicA on a True-Blue Bummer/AT '286-10. At .89 Mhz, the 6809 was <roughly .7x in everything except integer-related items - remember, RS-DOS <doesn't have integers... everything's a five-byte real. Your not comparing CPUs, you compared BASICs. Interger math is faster as iwould be five byte reals compared to the floating ppoint used on the PC/AT. A more reasonable would have been a collection of sorts and math tests that are in asm for the target machines. The 286 would have looked far better and the 287 would have made the case stronger. <vs. optimized assembly? IIRC, most (if not all) instructions execute in <fewer clock cycles on the 6809. But also, the addressing capabilities of Fewer slow cycles. <the 6809 far outweigh anything 86ish - I've tried learning x86 assembly - The '09 had better addressing modes and if you were not used to the way things are done in the z80/x86 world it would have been a hard translation. <ran screaming into the night... took my wife a week to find me! Any assy. <job I've ever seen can be done in a *lot* fewer instructions on a 6809 tha <an x86. maybe. <In my book, faster _and_ fewer gives a pretty decent improvement - sure, a <couple loops would run faster on a '286, but a regular proggie is more tha <just counting loops, and all of the branching & indexing capabilities of <the 6809 really improve the odds. X86 instuction set is strange but it is efficient. The problem is programming philosophies and methods are very differnt between 68xx and x86 due to type and use of registers and addressing modes. Then again the PDP-11 blows both away as it's not a primary accumulator machine also its regular in addressing modes and a two address machine. even the slow LSI-11 beats the 09. <version of Xenix available for an IBM / Clone? I know there was one for <the Tandy 2000, but that's the only version I've ever seen. How far did <M$'s licensing go with that OS? Yes there was, not cheap either. Rogue, is a good example of how code went from ASM to C, PASCAL, or whatever and grew huge in the process. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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hard disk & controller from an AT.

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Hey all. I was just looking through my junk collection with the idea of organizing it a bit, and I happened across these chunks of a PC. 1 western digital WD1003-WA2 16 bit mfm hard/floppy controller. 1 seagate ST4053 5.25 inch fullheight hard disk. 45 meg mfm. >from when I looked it up. Both can be yours for the price of shipping. Note that the drive weighs about 10-15 pounds so do factor in shipping from Colorado. As to whether they work, in short, I have no idea. I'm told the PC they came out of was functional when I got it, but I used its case for a pentium box I put together for a friend and stripped and threw out the AT motherboard that was in it. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

1
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Bulbs in parallel

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The striking and maintaining voltages of a neon bulb are different. This <can be used to make a bistable using a couple of neons and a few <resistors. No transistors.. Also tunnel diodes and sever types of bilater switches (four layer semis). <> Or, how about a one bit readable, writable memory circuit consisting of <> one neon bulb, two resistors, and a capacitor? <> How about a ring counter with no ICs, no transistors? < <There's an interesting little book called 'cold cathode tube circuit <design' that I have somewhere. It covers the use of neon bulbs and related <devices as stabilisers/triggers/counters/shift registers/etc, etc, etc I have samples of similar circuits. The most common use was octave dividers in early electonic organs as it was the most commonly used circuit in an organ and therefore required lowest cost. At the '64 worlds fair Bell labs showed a TIC-TAC-TOE machine that was largely neon lamps, Cold cathode thyratrons and relays. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> <There was a piece in the Travel section of our paper today - a reprint <from the New York Times News Service headlined "Y2K could slow air <traffic, but airplanes won't fall, experts say". <ovens, sprinkler timers, etc. Am I dense? I have at least one each of <the above (not including fire trucks) and no one of them has the <foggiest notion what year it is! Because of the firmware, some few care <what day it is, but to the best of my knowledge there are seven days in <a week irrespective what year it is, or even the month. Generally those articles are bogus. The flight computers care not what day it is. The nav equipment will work though there is a remote risk that the data bases for moving map sysems could go out of date (they update many times per year). Last I looked I've never seen an airport move. My Cessna will continue to fly unimpeded <It would really be nice if the thoughts and opinions of truly knowledgeabl <folks were to be published and all of this type of panic mongering put <firmly to bed! That's exactly what it is panic mongering and total lack of knowledge of that y2k is. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Y2K stuff

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Alas on a few of the more complex systems there is a real time clock chip > - sometimes there's even an embedded PC in there. And if the code is > badly written then there can be problems. Note that AFAIK in every case > things fail _safe_. But they could fail - like the fire trucks not working. For one thing, the issue with 'expired' credit cards is real. Of course, the end of the world isn't going to occur because of this, but it is still serious enough to try to fix the problems. You wouldn't really _want_ that elevator to stop working when you're trying to make the appointment on the 40th floor, would you? Sure, it could fail for other reasons too, but this is something that ought to be double-checked since we know about it.

27 years, 3 months

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TK50Z-GA

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Any luck with Zane on the board? Dan -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)my-dejanews.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 02, 1999 6:30 PM Subject: WTD: TK50Z-GA > OK -- I'm making progress. Thanks to John Wilson at Dbit, I found out >that the TK50's I'm using may not actually be "standard" SCSI, but a >bastardized implementation used only for VS2000's. > > With that in mind, if anyone's got a TK50Z-GA in working condition >(NOT the -FA, which is what I have) that they feel like parting with, I >would be happy to buy it. > > Thanks in advance. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, >Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com >Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com >"...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, >event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." >

27 years, 3 months

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Anyone else done this...?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Has anyone here tried to write TK50 boot tapes for NetBSD's VAX <>port from a Linux box, using dd and a SCSI TK50 drive? It s doable if you have the SCSI tk50 or a TLZ30. Beware there are almost scsi tk50s that pair up only with vs2000s (old scsi spec and the protocal is off some). <for some wierd reason. I gather it is possible, but I'm afriad I don't <know how you would go about it. I'm short on detail but it would be like any DLT in use if you have the scsi version(difference is in the eprom on the SCSI adaptor). Allison

27 years, 3 months

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y2k stuff

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>What boggles the mind is that this is a problem at all. It seems hard to >believe (in retrospect) that people really did deliberately build software >with only 2 digit years. I know it saved a few bytes, and yes, I remember >when a byte of memory was a significant amount, but still. How did standard >programming practice come to be so short sighted as to assume that software >infrastructure would be thrown out and replaced on a regular basis? >-- >Jim Strickland What about OS8 (PDP8) that had a 3 bit year field. It has a Y2K issue every 8 years. Dan

27 years, 3 months

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NCR SCSI / 5380 Floppy only card

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/4/99 1:13:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > The 82072 isn't an ASIC - at least not a custom one. It's a single-chip > floppy controller - basically a PC/AT floppy interface minus the address > decoder. I have the data sheets. > I thought ASIC was "Application Specific Integrated Circuit" which the floppy controller would seem to qualify. I agree that it is not a custom chip. Thanks for the info Tony. What drive sizes does it support? Paxton

27 years, 3 months

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Apollo problems

by rexstout＠uswest.net

having trouble getting the old DN3500 to boot, with the original hard drive and the system in service mode I can get it to go a little ways, but when I try to launch the config and testing programs, it crashes. Nothing on the screen, but the C & D lights are flashing. Can't seem to find anything on the web that will tell me what that means. And when I plug in the 780MB drive, it works fine but the OS isn't installed so all I get is a no sysboot error. Although I'm told that one of the two 780MB drives has the Domain/OS install stuff on it, I'm just not sure how to get to it. -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | | ham-mac(a)qth.net Portland, OR | --------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

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Need: Northstar Boot Disk

by bobatk＠EXCHANGE.MICROSOFT.com

Anthony: Regarding your year-old posting: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-01/msg00022.html Did you ever find a disk? I've got several such disks, and could help you out, especially as it appears that you're a local (I'm in Woodinville). On the flip side, my MD5-AD3 seems to have gone south over the last decade of non-use, and I'm looking to replace it, or at least find one to temporarily swap with to confirm that it's indeed the disk controller that's iffy. Would you know of anyone that might be able to help me out? Thanks. Bob Atkinson 425-936-5570 (w)

27 years, 3 months

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NCR SCSI / 5380 Floppy only card

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/3/99 4:07:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, hansp(a)digiweb.com writes: > > > On the topic of vintage SCSI: where NCR 5386 datasheet can be found? > > > Preferably in .PDF? (Tektronix 4336 uses this chip.) > > > > I would check http://www.ncr.com/ and http://www.adaptec.com/ (Adaptec > bought > > Symbios). > > Better to try <htp://www.lsilogic.com/> it was LSI Logic who bought > Symbios a little while ago... A quick scan showed no obvious links to > data on the 5386 though :-( > The SCSI to Floppy controllers I got from the Biin project use this chip. The cards were made by NCR (1987) and are labeled SCSI FLEX SE. It is a SCSI/Floppy only and has an 80188 microprocessor on it also. The NCR chip has written on the top NCR/5380 CPO1946 6-1082073 8845A There is another intel ASIC on the card, labeled P 82072. along with a 27256 EPROM (Z17412 printed on the sticker) and a 6264-12 memory chip. The bad news is there are two switch blocks, a 4 position and an 8 position, and I have absolutely no documentation. The numbers on the card I have in front of me is: ADP200103117004A SCHM348-0017864b I hopes this helps in the search for data. Now I have to reply to the list members who were interested in purchasing some of theses. The question of how intelligent the cards were was prominent mentioned so I offered to get numbers off of them this weekend. I am passing it out now. I will reply shortly to the members who are intrusted with these particulars. To those who missed the original posting I am offering theses circuit cards for $5 each plus shipping. They SCSI Flex SE cards are NEW, mostly sealed packages. (It is amazing that someone feels the need to open a new package even if he is one open Please reply to me directly at whoagiii(a)aol.com Thanks again, Paxton Portland, Oregon, USA

27 years, 3 months

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DEC WARS, for your Nintendo Game Boy!

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Been playing with VGB, a game boy emulator for DOS. Got copy of Star Wars ROM. Applied hex editor. STAR WARS becomes DEC WARS. The screwed-up^Wedited ROM image is at ftp://bony.umtec.com/decwars.gb until someone complains about it. All I did was screw up the text, it should be fun to play with. Let me know. -------

27 years, 3 months

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Dynabook

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

I read a little bit about the concepts of the Dynabook, mouse, and other stuff in Steven Levy's macintosh book Insanely Great. However, I would like to know more. I have heard on this list that the research at PARC, and their products, are related to this and that Smalltalk was an attempt at the sort of operating system/programming language necessary for a true Dynabook. I also looked on the net and I didn't find a whole lot. But was the Alto the only such attempt ever made? I am discounting all of the cheap GUIs based on it like MacOS and GEM. Were there any _real_ ones? It seems the Apple Newton is somehow related, and I could see why, but I discount it from coming close because it is an extremely inflexible system, just like MacOS. Are there any ongoing projects? I would appreciate any insight ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

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Replies to old threads

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> And you had to re-solder some inter-board connecting wires on the core >> memory modules. IIRC these wires were little strips of springy stuff. > > I'm not sure I count faults that _I've_ caused. The core memory soldering > failed when I dismanted a core module to show some people how it worked. > Had I left it assembled it would probably have carried on working. Perhaps it would. But that doesn't mean you caused the fault. A dry joint is still a fault; even if you are the one who makes it lose contact, it wasn't you who made the joint dry... Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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"Single instance" machines

by pb0aia＠iaehv.nl

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:34:45 +0000, Lawrence Walker wrote: >On 13 Dec 98 at 23:36, Kees Stravers wrote: >> How about the Philips P2000 family? I have not seen messages about >> those machines on the list. Z80 system, 48K RAM, 16K ROM in a cart >> so it was easy to change programs, micro cassette recorder that was >> operated by the computer so no fiddling with buttons, floppy drives >> optional, video 40x24 color (viewdata/teletext character set) or >> 80x24 monochrome. Started life as a dedicated word processor, BASIC >> cart added later. >> picture at http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/sroom.html >Hi Kees, your pages are always interesting. Haven't visited in a while. >Nice to see the additions. >You mention that the P2000 started as a dedicated WP. Could this have >been the Philips Micom 2000 ? If so, any other info ? I have never heard of the Philips Micom word processor. That's not so strange, Philips has made a lot of different computer systems, it is an enormous task to catalogue them all. Sometimes Philips even sold the same computer under two different names, e.g. their third XT clone was known as the NMS9100 for the consumer market, but sold as the P3105 by a totally different section of Philips to the professional market, and it was the exact same machine. I tried several web searches for 'Philips Micom', but all I could come up with were a couple of firms offering conversion services for its files, and a CV of a Canadian researcher who mentiones having written software for the thing. I once saw a very old Philips wordprocessor, with a cabinet a the size of a cubic metre under the desk, a separate terminal for i/o and a weird thirteen bit parallel daisywheel printer which had no smarts at all (the computer had to tell it how many microsteps to turn the roll and move the head etc) but this machine used magnetic cards the size of a punched card to save files to, not disks. The P2000 family I was talking about has four lines that are incompatible with each other. - The P2000T (cassette, 40 char video) / P2000M (disk, 80 char video) which was the most common here in The Netherlands. They were the same internally but had different video. Most programs were interchangable. A CP/M card was available for it from the Philips computer club. Also a floppy disk controller for the T that was compatible with the internal one in the M. - The P2000C luggable, the most advanced one, CP/M, even had a 8088 'CoPower' card available for it that could run MSDOS. You could attach an external hard disk via a SASI interface. It could read and write the disk formats from all the other members, and of a lot of CP/M systems too. - The P2000B/P2500, a CP/M disk system with 5.25i disks, monitor and disks in one cabinet like the P2000M, on top of a passive backplane cabinet like the Northstar with everything on cards. 8i floppy controller available. - The P5020/P5040 word processor system. The P5020 was a monster system, an all-in-one system with a 15 inch 36 line system, two 5.25i drives next to the monitor, internal card cage with passive backplane (not the same as the P2500). The entire thing stood on a big tilt/swivel pedestal. Heavy keyboard made of metal, no plastic exept for the keys. The P5040 was a more modern version, smaller and looking like a PC with separate monitor and all. There was an add-on machine, called the P5010, which was a keyboard with a single line lcd display and a cassette drive, which could be used to enter long texts. You then transported these texts serially to the P5020 or P5040 for the finishing touches. Maybe this system was the Micom, I don't know. Some bright minds in the Philips computer club made a new ROM for the P5010 so you could write Z80 machine code programs with it. Later there even was CP/M for the P5020/5040. Multiplan with 36 lines really was a treat. I only have pictures of the P2000M and the P2000C on my pages. The other systems are buried in the garage, it would take quite some digging to photograph them. I'll go look if I have some magazine pictures of them. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia(a)iae.nl Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://vaxarchive.ml.org (primary) - http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) See my old computers at http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/ Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

27 years, 3 months

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video reversing

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> >Is it realy a colour display ? AFAIR these where B&W LCDs with >a blueish backlight - so the dark blue is just 'less' blue >due a switched on cell :) The only solution is to select for >all used programms fore/background colours that match your need, >like black on white whitch should result in light blue on dark >blue - but belive me, the readability is poor. > It's Color in the fact that it uses shades of blue instead of shades of gray. The dark blue is actually a switched off cell. I know it sounds backwards, but when I disconnected the video cable once, and only the backlight was on, the whole thing was dark blue. I tried a little program that reverses the color, until something else changes it, and it's actually easier to read (as long as the contrast is set right). It's actually easier to read than some CRT's that I've seen, because the letters aren't fuzzed out at the edges. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

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Old Microsoft MSX standard?

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: While reading some late-1984 Byte mags, I came across a description of the Microsoft MSX computer standard. Implemented mostly by Japanese computer manufacturers, an MSX computer is CP/M based with 32k of RAM, a cassette port, RF modulator, and cartridge slots for expansion. I picture a Z80-based VIC-20 or C64, although not in that physical form. Anyone have any info on this? [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 3 months

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DN3500 motherboard question

by rexstout＠uswest.net

(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo) Got lots of Apollo stuff today, including two 4000's with no CPU chips, two 3010/3000 motherboards and a 3500 motherboard. But for now I have only things bothering me. First, what are the specs on the PC compatibility card and how do I use it? Second, which 3500 board is better, the 11858 or the 15652? What's different between the two? My current 3500 has the 15652 and I'm wondering if I should leave it there or switch the boards. ---------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | ----------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

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Virus Checking

by Pjoules1＠cs.com

In a message dated 31/12/98 07:30:27 GMT Standard Time, lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com writes: > Beware of just using MSAV that came with 6.22. It does not pick up the newer > virii. IIRC it wont even pick up Form A which wasn't even new when MSAV was first released. BTW I wont go into detail but there haave been long discussions about the plural of virus on alt.comp.virus and it seems to come down to the consensus that those who have knowledge of the etymology of the word (and who are generally in the anti virus camp) insist that it is viruses whereas those who think that viruses are 'cool' (and those who write them) insist that it should be viri or the impossible virii. Regards Pete

27 years, 3 months

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Old NCR printer

by dann＠greycat.com

Not sure if this is on-topic, but if not, just tell me; I'll go quietly :-) A friend gave me a working (!) NCR6416 laser printer (he was clearing out a shed), and I've got it hooked up to a Linux box on my net. It has some small problems I feel sure I can fix by giving it a thorough cleaning, but my main problem is docs. My friend lost the manuals for the thing long ago, and NCR doesn't seem to remember they made it. I need info on switch settings, front panel switches and indicators, programming, etc. About all I've been able to find is that it uses a toner cartridge type that is still readily available. I can print straight text to it fine from Linux and VMS, but I need to know more to print from OS/2, apparently. *sigh* Need a clue, people; any help *greatly* appreciated. Thanks! -- Dann Lunsford * The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil * dann(a)greycat.com * is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero * "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

27 years, 3 months

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Fujitsu FW5020M05 and Macintosh System Disks

by todd.osborne＠barnstormer-software.com

Can anyone provide information on a Fujitsu external floppy disk drive for the Mac? It is model number FW5020M05. I am trying to rebuild a SE/30 (10 years old yesterday :) On the same note, anyone know a secret way to take the Mac OS 7.0.1 images that Apple has available on their site for free, download them to a PC and make system disks from them? I have tons of working PC's, but not networkable Macs to use to do this. Or, if anyone can dup me a copy of System 6.0.4 or 7.0.1 I would appreciate it. Apparently this is legal, since Apple has the images on their site, but if it is not, forget I asked :) Todd -- -------------------------------------------------------- Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: 2 Wrongs Don't Make a Right, But 3 Rights Make a Left! --------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

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RK05 Servo tests

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1832 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990103/21eb74bb/at…

27 years, 3 months

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IBM portable pc

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

one of my 2 5155 suitcase computers is still a dual floppy model and one of the drives posts bad. I'm looking for the "correct" drive for this model. it's a half height 360k drive with a black faceplate with the IBM logo on the bottom right. if anyone has it available, give me a shout. david

27 years, 3 months

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Ray Holt article

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Here's a recent article on Ray Holt with regard to his F14A microprocessor. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98]

27 years, 3 months

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Philips P5020 / MICOM (was: Re: "Single instance" machines)

by pb0aia＠iaehv.nl

On Thu, 31 Dec 1998 19:37:24 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell said: >> - The P5020/P5040 word processor system. The P5020 was a monster system, an >> all-in-one system with a 15 inch 36 line system, two 5.25i drives next >> to the monitor, internal card cage with passive backplane (not the same >> as the P2500). The entire thing stood on a big tilt/swivel pedestal. >> Heavy keyboard made of metal, no plastic exept for the keys. The P5040 >I found a P5020 in a charity shop (thrift store) in Cheltenham last >summer. I figured it was worth \pounds 20.00 and nearly ripped my arms >off carrying it back to the car. You're right - it's very solid and very >heavy. >I don't remember the internals being a passive backplane, though. One >large PCB across the back (with 2 Z80s on it and a lot of other chips) >and a few DIN41612 connectors on this board as expansion slots. One of >the slots in my machine has a RAM card in it (64K I think). >I know nothing much about it, and I don't have any form of system disk >for it. Well, after I sent the message I began to doubt. Apart from the P5020 there was another computer that looked exactly like the P5020 but had a totally different machine inside. Floppys and screen were the same but the rest wasn't. It did not even have a Z80. I saw them at the computer club. They were called the 'Televerket' and were supposed to be some kind of communica- tions system for a Scandinavian PTT. I think it was also called P5900. The software for it was developed in Forth, so the Forth fans in the club were happy with them. I may have seen the card cage in this machine. You shouldn't have said you didn't have a system disk for your P5020 :) now you made me unearth my own P5020. Or at least try to. This is not an under- taking for the faint of heart. The machine is in my garage. In the back of my garage. The garage has two doors. The one in front that a car is supposed to go through (this has only happened once, in 1986 I believe) and a regular one in the middle for me. Imagine that you take a piece of chalk and attach this to the bottom of this door, at the far end, so when you open the door into the garage you draw a half-circle on the concrete floor. This circle then represents the border of how far you can walk into my garage. So I put on my coveralls, donned my old miners helmet with the strong lamp on the front and I started digging a corridor, by lifting stuff out of the way and putting it back down behind me. Soon the batteries of the lamp began to fade but just at this moment I found my P5040. There was a floppy in the right hand drive. Since this machine is compatible with the P5020 I dug it out quickly and went for the door again. Back onto safe ground I opened the P5040 and saw it had a large PCB on the bottom, and a daughtercard with two eurocard (DIN41612?) connectors for expansion cards, like your P5020, one of which had some kind of communications card in it. After being connected to the mains the machine booted at once. The disk was a CP/M 2.2 disk for the P5020. It had the spreadsheet program on it I mentioned earlier. I found my memory got warped after all those years because it turned out to be the Supercalc 2 program by Sorcim Corp. It claimed to be made for the MICOM 3003. So there you have it: Micom 3003 and P5020 are the same machine. I guess the Micom that Lawrence has is going to be the P2500. I made an image of the CP/M disk with Teledisk and wrote this image to a new disk. The P5040 also booted from this disk, but only if I put it in the right hand drive. This is a bit strange, since when you switch on the machine with no disk in it, the left hand drive lights its led and does a seek. Ah well. I can email you this Teledisk image. You need an AT PC with a 1.2MB floppy drive to write the image to a real disk, since the P5020 uses 80 track single sided drives. You can use a regular 360K disk to write the image on, if it is from a well known brand this will work. Now I'm off to dig out the digital camera so I can put a photo of this thing on my web page, it would be a same to bury it again without a photo after all this trouble :) Kees

27 years, 3 months

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That does not compute

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> And how many people actually use function keys any more in the age of the > GUI and mouse? I use ALT-F4 in Windows to quit programs, CTRL-F4 to close windows, CTRL-F6 to change to the next window, F7 to run spell check in M$-Word, and Shift-F7 for thesaurus. In Linux, ALT-Fn switches to virtual terminal n.

27 years, 3 months

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Fixing RK05 servo chatter

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I decided to play with my 11/34a over the holiday, and discovered that one of my heretofore working RK05 drives has developed a chatter in the linear positioner. Here's what happens: the drive goes OnCyl with no problem, but on the first acccess, the OnCyl light blinks, and I get a device error returned to RT-11. I opened the case and watched the servo during this process and it seems to move in and out by one cylinder during this condition. So, I figured that there may be dirt on the positioner optics. I used compressed air to blow it off, which had no effect. Any clues? [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 3 months

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IBM portable pc

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/2/99 8:01:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > Was there ever a supported hard disk for that machine (that didn't use > the 5161 expansion cabinet)? My manuals seem to imply there wasn't > > Of course it's a standard XT motherboard in there, so if you get a > half-height drive and a 'short' controller it'll go in. > > > the drives posts bad. I'm looking for the "correct" drive for this model. > it's > > a half height 360k drive with a black faceplate with the IBM logo on the > > bottom right. if anyone has it available, give me a shout. > > If it's any help the drive was made by Qume, and it's the same drive as > in the PC-jr > > I have the schematics in the Options and Adapters Techref if you want to > have a go at fixing the original drive. From what I remember it's not hard. > > If it's failing the POST, then the most likely problem is head movement > or track 0 sensor, I think. i'm not sure if there was a supported hard disk, but my other 5155 has a seagate hard drive installed by someone. i'm getting a 601 post error. the drive makes a grinding noise a bit more serious that the normal noise it makes before beeping twice. is it really fixable?

27 years, 3 months

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ZDTV sightings...

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

It has MS-Works in ROM? Where do I get this wonderful machine? > system error", or something like that, and goes into ROM (MS-WORKS). Then > when I try to access something, it locks.

27 years, 3 months

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IBM portable pc

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/3/99 12:08:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhblake(a)bigfoot.com writes: > Does your flopp have the IBM logo or the star emblem (or both) imprinted in > the > face? I have probably 12 good drives that are IBM type black faces but to > make > sure you get what is closest to original it might be best to get the make > and > model of the one you have now. I assume you live in the US? this drive has a black faceplate but has the IBM logo molded into the bottom right corner of the face plate. if need be, i'll open it up again and find the fru number. i'm on the east coast.

27 years, 3 months

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Need Help around Buffalo, NY

by todd.osborne＠barnstormer-software.com

If anyone on the list if from around Buffalo, NT and can help to ship a DEC PDP-11 (in a BA-23 box) with some peripherals to me, I would appreciate it. I have the lead on a nice setup, but I won't be able to travel that far anytime soon because my daughter is too little. So if you know anyone that can spare an hour or two (not free, I will pay them) to help box it up for shipping, I would greatly appreciate it. Todd -- -------------------------------------------------------- Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: 2 Wrongs Don't Make a Right, But 3 Rights Make a Left! --------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

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Misc. DEC parts available

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Well, I decided to start going through some of my DEC spares, and came across a small pile of stuff which is of no use to me. So, they're up for trade: Qty 2 of each of the following: - 200/MC concentrators - LA36 power boards - LA36 logic boards - {assumed to be} LA36 drive belts - LA36 print heads The working condition is unknown, as I have no way of testing these items. The 200/MCs power on fine and the LEDs on the back blink appropriately. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 3 months

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IBM portable pc

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >Was there ever a supported hard disk for that machine (that didn't use >the 5161 expansion cabinet)? My manuals seem to imply there wasn't I've got one that has (what I thought was...) a standard hard drive. Will check. -Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

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80s video game commercials

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

John Foust ><http://www.commercial-archive.com/> is a repository of video clips >of television commercials, including a category of "Classic videogames" >from the 80s, including Atari, Coleco, Mattel and other computers. >Frames-capable browser and Real player required. www.atari-history.com also has a few adverts. The files are saved as AVI and are quite small but are lacking in the quality department. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star"

27 years, 3 months

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TK50Z-GA

by dburrows＠netpath.net

> OK -- I'm making progress. Thanks to John Wilson at Dbit, I found out >that the TK50's I'm using may not actually be "standard" SCSI, but a >bastardized implementation used only for VS2000's. > > With that in mind, if anyone's got a TK50Z-GA in working condition >(NOT the -FA, which is what I have) that they feel like parting with, I >would be happy to buy it. > > Thanks in advance. I just sent Zane Healy a bad SCSI TK50 adapter board. (my only spare). Based on Allison's post I would suggest checking the EPROM on yours and comparing to the one I sent him. I think he may be willing to part with it. I only sent it because I was sending a bunch of other stuff and had marked the unusual SCSI select on it for his ref. The fault on the one I sent him was nowhere near involving the EPROM. Dan

27 years, 3 months

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Osborne 01 for only $5000.00 - new Scam???

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/1/99 10:47:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: > > Out of curiosity, how to you find out how much a reserve bid is? > One of the list members reiterated a story about bidding up an item till he hit the reserve limit. Unfortunately you have to be willing to buy it to use this method. I also don't believe he got the item in the end. Paxton

27 years, 3 months

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Send Me your C Programming Questions

by todd.osborne＠barnstormer-software.com

I lost some mail from the last couple of days, but somebody was asking about a C programming problem. I am a C/C++ programmer by trade, so please let me know if I can be of help. Todd -- -------------------------------------------------------- Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: 2 Wrongs Don't Make a Right, But 3 Rights Make a Left! --------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

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WTD: TK50Z-GA

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

OK -- I'm making progress. Thanks to John Wilson at Dbit, I found out that the TK50's I'm using may not actually be "standard" SCSI, but a bastardized implementation used only for VS2000's. With that in mind, if anyone's got a TK50Z-GA in working condition (NOT the -FA, which is what I have) that they feel like parting with, I would be happy to buy it. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 3 months

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Anyone else done this...?

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1369 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990102/3d563a91/at…

27 years, 3 months

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Shugart Model 801 (8 inch floppy)

by bill＠chipware.com

I have the above drive. It was shipped to me bolted in an enclosure. During shipping, it was badly shocked, shearing off the mounting bolts and damaging a couple of components on the electronics board. A couple of resistors and caps had their leads cut. Some creative soldering fixed that. One diode was smashed. It was on of those little clear (glass?) diodes. Are those called zeeners or something that starts with "z"? Anyway, I didn't have a replacement, so I just removed the leads and left it at that. Later I decided to go ahead and try the drive, and it worked. If somebody has the schematics, the silkscreen next to where the diode was is "C1" (it is in one corner of the board). Are there often nonessential components in older hardware? Is it actually nonessential or is some signal being compromised or some other component being overstressed? Bill Sudbrink

27 years, 3 months

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Anyone else done this...?

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990102/ffda6c23/at…

27 years, 3 months

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Sickening Documentation

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Or maybe just "CUS". -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)lafleur.wfi-inc.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Sickening Documentation > > >On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote: > >> Well "CompaqUS" is just _too_ ugly. > >I dunno..."COMPUS" has such a nice ring to it... > >

27 years, 3 months

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SYM-1 Single board computer

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: "Mike" <dogas(a)leading.net> wrote: >The AIM-65 (single-board, full keyboard, LED display and 20-column >printer on-board), SD Systems Z-80 starter kit, Motorola MEK6800, VIM-1 >(predecessor to the SYM-1). > >>I have a full doc set for the AIM-65 if anyone needs any info on this machine. If you look on the documents page on my ClassicCmp, I have posted scans of the AIM doc set. I still have to do the User's Guide, though. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 3 months

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datapoint 1800 (1980 )

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Maurice Hamm <maurice.hamm(a)wxs.nl> <To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washingto <Subject: datapoint 1800 (1980 ) <--------------E36421B1C418E750A3FFE34F <Content-Type: image/gif; name="img1.gif" <Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 <Content-Disposition: inline; filename="img1.gif" Hey! sending that binary was annoying and rude. Ask first. You may find that there may be someone familiar with datapoint here. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Altair kit on E-OverPay

by allisonp＠world.std.com

sans label too. One speculated that it is the early ones <which were sent out without labels. Don't know why. The early ones did have labels. Some however were wither lost or tossed. also MITS did private lable some of theirs for other companies that were bundling systems. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Quantel Line Printer

by Watzman＠ibm.net

This is just a guess, but the Quantel line printer made by Teletype is probably a Teletype Model 40 from your description. I don't have any docs on it, but they should be readily available. Barry Watzman

27 years, 3 months

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Still OT: Pentium / M$ drivel... (fairly long)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> The dynamics of the microprocessor market is more complex than you think <>> If MIPS was so good it would ahve pushed out x86. Alpha is a 64bit cpu <>> targetted at high end systems and the MicroVAX (32bit) was already well <>> established and faster than 386/486. < <I have to disagree with this, Allison, one of my points being: The value / <speed / whatever of a Microprocessor means little versus the *marketing* o <a processor / computer. to a point that is true. <The lowly Motorola 6809 at 2 Mhz outperforms a <10Mhz 80286... by far. It also *smokes* the 6502. And other than Xenix 286 <(super-expensive), OS-9 is the most powerful OS available for these <processors, and at a reasonable cost (When I bought my copy - $139.)... the 6809 was pretty neat and close to PDP-11. It was however, slow! Smoking a 6502 is not a contest, 16bit math and a few other things the 6502 has trouble with impair it. Comparing it to a 286/10mhz, sorry, no way. The 286 wasn't great but it was faster. Is OS-9 better than DOS yes, Xenix, no. Is OS-9 better developed than most intel/ms OSs, very likely. are there OSs for intel parts that show them better, yes. The 6809 was still a mile behind the PDP-11 (either the T-11 chip or the F11 cip pair and way behind the J11 chip). Like you said marketing... who outside of us remembers OS-9 and the 6809? Was the coco a better machine... no. It was good for it's time but the system was still a grafted together set of pods and cables typical of many of the trs-xx products. People noticed the PCs and the like when they started to look competent, complete and somewhat stable in operation. The contents of the box cpu wise was more determined by the software development community than the chip makers. IE: the guy in the lead for that time generally had the most and best software widely available at low or no cost. That's why AppleIIs, TRS-80s and PC are like house files for their respective times. No matter how good or bad software to make them do useful work often drove them forward. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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