- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/10/99 8:04:23 AM EST, tim(a)thereviewguide.com writes: << I recently got an Apple II+. OK, it's not the most exciting system in the world, but very cool in it's own respect. It's totally FULL of all kinds of add-in cards (including a AD/DA converter), and has 64K RAM. (48K+16K Pocket Rocket), etc. So basically, it's a nice II+, but more important to me is the add on cards, which probably hold tons of interesting secrets. There's a problem. MACHINE WILL NOT BOOT. >> does it beep when you turn it on? try removing most or all of the i/o cards and try it again. if it was shipped to you, it probably got beat to heck. reseat/replug everything component on the board and try that. david

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

NorthStar Horizon incoming

by bobstek＠ix.netcom.com

NorthStar (founded by 2 Berkeley professors) made one of the earliest S-100 5.25" disk sub-systems. IIRC, it sold for $699 which was cheaper than than the 8" systems available, and made it a popular add-on for IMSAI and other early S-100 machines. It always included NorthStar DOS and BASIC, but CP/M was eventually adapted for it (by Lifeboat Associates I think). The Horizon was a farily well-designed 4 MHz Z-80 S-100 box supplied with N*'s own 16K (and later 32K, 48K, and 64K) dynamic RAM cards. The floppy controller was designed to use 10 hole hard sectored diskettes (which are still available >from California Digital for $10 a box!) in formats ranging from SSSD (90K) to DSQD (800K). They also made one of the earliest floating point processor boards (which I believe only their own BASIC supported, in precisions from 8 to 14 digits). They eventually added a range of HDs and continued with their own operating system development including a multi-user environment, though they also officially offered CP/M. I was one of the founding members (along with John Dvorak, who at one time published a Software Review and sold N* software out of his home!) of INSUA, the International NorthStar User's Association which published a very good newsletter for many years. NorthStar made the transistion past the introduction of the PC by offering an all-in-one SBC system with graphics (the Advantage) and even had a dual-processor (Z-80 / 8088) model. Despite attempting to expand their marketing by linking up with General Bindery Corporation (spiral-bound and other binding equipment) to sell NorthStars through business equipment suppliers, they eventually went the way of all S-100 manufacturers - R.I.P. Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Sick Sorcerer. Diagnosis, Doctor?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 10, 11:10, Andrew Davie wrote: > First question: there are two drives, and each has a set of jumper pins. > The pins are labeled.. > > DS 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > MX > MS > H M > H C > > The top drive, on which the red LED lights when I power the drive, has > jumpers across DS1 and HC. I am guessing that this drive is the second > drive, and that the two jumpers that fell out of the casing belong on the > second drive. That should be, I'm guessing, DS0 and mmmh... HM? Can > anybody enlighten me on this? Probably DS0 (Drive Select 0) and all other links the same as the other drive (so HC, rather than HM -- that determines the behaviour of head loading w.r.t. drive select/motor on/some other condition) > Second question: Powering the Sorcerer (I thought I didn't have a monitor, > but the VIDEO IN on my VCR works nicely - it shows up well on my TV) exibits > some strange behaviour. What's trying to come up on screen is "EXIDY > STANDARD MONITOR" and a few lines after that. But it simply stops after the > second or third character. Repeated efforts see it stop in different > places - sometimes you see the whole lot, and it's actually usable for a few [...] > I found a homebrew cartridge for this machine, and when its plugged in, the > wordprocessor it contains appears to work fine - everytime - with no > apparent problems. > So, the question is, what's wrong with the monitor? Did you have a BASIC cartidge plugged in? If that were so, and it were faulty, it might well interfere with what happens after a cold start. If not, it could be a faulty monitor PROM. I can't remeber at what point the monitor checks for a cartridge and hands over control, but it could be that one of the monitor PROMs is faulty. That might only be visible when no other cartridge ius fitted, and the CLI part of the monitor is executed. > Third question: Assuming I actually get the machine powering up correctly, > and that the drive I have isn't missing some vital component - it will be > time to insert a disk. Can anybody tell me how to actually use a drive with > the Sorcerer system? I'm afraid it's going to be some arcane "GO C800" or > something like that, from the monitor. I think I might need someone with > documentation! That's how they usually work, but there are lots of different Sorcerer disk formats/systems. We'd need to know more about the specific disk system you have. Usually the bootstrap is quite small, and in the area you mention; you could probably find the start of the bootstrap code just by DUmping memory and looking for it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Stupid CP/M question

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>> Graphics we know were not going to happen on PDP11 or most other >> 16bit cpus as they don't address enough space. OSs were driven by >> the environment and it's tasks plus space needs. >> >> Allison > >Jerome Fine replies: > >While I realize that it would not have been possible to make >their graphics part of the standard OS for a PDP-11, I >was led to believe that the PR0 350/380 had access to >their bit mapped screen displays. While doing such >manipulations was likely discouraged, is that a true >statement of the situation and in a few lines, how was >it done? I may have a working PRO 350/380 and >it would be interesting. That depends on the extent of the graphics you want on PDP11. I am thinking of the VS11 and the VSV21 board sets. They work quite nicely - I have a few VS11's and my VSV21 is on loan at a customer site. I also have full docs on them if anyone need info on them. Dan

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

PR1ME rescue update

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Having spent the last several hours plowing through the boxes of doc that came (thank you thank you thank you) with the system.. it seems that I have either a 250-II or a 550-II; I have to drag the CPU out to tell which. The Mag Tape susbsystem has some very interesting conversion routines... not like DECworld... much simpler. I am *really* curious to see what's on the 'Games' reel. Cheerz John

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

anyone running X11R2 through R4?

by meo＠netads.com

If so, I have some old copies of the ORA books if you want them. Yes, X11 is well over 10 years old! -Miles, loves X but still misses Sun's original graphics system

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

new to the list

by jonathan＠canuck.com

> Hi (from the list owner). :) Hi yerself. > I usually tell people to stop eventually, though I am rather lazy about it. > Generally, I come down harder on the poltiical discussions. I acknowledge that I'm jumping in without the benefit of a lurking period, and that what I've seen so far may not be statistically significant, but I'd like to offer a little perspective. I subscribe to a pretty varied assortment of lists (ranging from old Ramblers to new music), and this is by far the highest volume, with each digest in the 3000-4500 line range. This, folks, is a lot of mail. In the case of at least one of the other lists I subscribe to, the list owner borders on tyrannical in keeping the discussion on-topic. We like it this way. Otherwise the S/N just drops off too hard, and the list becomes more burden than useful. > The Altair-price discussions are generally considered to be on topic, > not just because they deal with classic computers, but because they deal > with changes in the hobby of _collecting_ classic computers. If you've been > looking at prices and available machines for any length of time, you can > probably tell that it just isn't easy to pick up machines that used to be > fairly readily available. (PDP-8's and -11's, for example.) Understood. Me, I'm interested in the exchange of technical information, and as I suggested above, it might be argued that the volume and variety of discussion is going to make the list a less-than-satisfying thing for people with specific interests. Might I respectfully suggest that, in the absence of aggressive subject management by the owner, the list would be better broken into four, say: classiccmp-historical classiccmp-technical classiccmp-overblown_prices_collector_scum_die_die_die classiccmp-more_about_television_licensing_really > Maybe I should start keeping a list of subjects that are on-topic by > consensus, and those that are off-topic by consensus. That's admirably democratic of you, but impossible in practice. It's really just a job for one individual's discretion, and I have no reason to not trust yours. Jonathan

27 years, 3 months

8
10
0 0

HPUX manuals

by meo＠netads.com

I have various & sundry HP/UX 6.2 manuals, such as a Systems Administrator manual. These went with the HP 9000 Series 300 systems, circa 1988. Still in the binders, mostly. Anyone need them?

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Roadrunner (i386) SunOS diskettes

by meo＠netads.com

I have a set of Beta diskettes for the Sun Roadrunner (i386). I have what appears to be the complete OS, and the diagnostics diskette. I have part of the dev. tools (should have all, I will keep looking). Anyone have a Roadrunner and need software? -Miles

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Message formats

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:10 AM 1/7/99 GMT, you wrote: >Outlook? I can assure you that it is possible to configure Microsoft >mailers to send formatted HTML (which IMHO should not be allowed at all) or >RTF in such a way that normal mailers simply see a plain text plus an >attachment. Which, I might add, is a pita. I end up with a directory full of files like "remessag" and "quantel" and such because of these stupid attachments. Overworks my hard drive, uses up disk space, and hides legitimate, important files. I dunno, but if you can't describe something adequately with plain text plus attachements (as in included when necessary) perhaps you don't understand your subject well enough. If you need to include formatting (such as Word files or data or even code) it can be sent as an attachment (which, I might add, is more useable than trying to cut and paste from an e-mail message.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

5
5
0 0

R.I.P. Hayes

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

Just so everyone knows, Hayes is gone. They closed down for good yesterday. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

4
5
0 0

OT: Linux question

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

Can anyone help me with this issue? When I download my mail in Linux, the mail has a line in the header called 'X-Status:' followed by a blank line. I have found that if I get rid of this and the blank line, pine properly detects the Subject: and From: of the letter. However, if I leave it in, it doesn't. I wrote a very inefficient shell script to get rid of these lines, using a loop with grep and sed. Does anyone know a better way? Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

a little more compucolor rant; sgi

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<be happy to send you a box of assorted unreliable S-100 DRAM boards that <will keep you busy well into your retirement. A good example! Also their very design sloppyness may be significant as some were "of the time". <Maybe that's the primary philosophical divergence here: I consider few <obsolete machines to be inherently interesting, when there are so many <others that are merely _thought_ to be obsolete but are still utterly <useful given a current, robust OS. Or some already have a robust OS that works even if it's not the current vogue. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

new to the list

by allisonp＠world.std.com

the list (which is supposed to be very single-minded) contains a number of <people who actually are single-minded (Tony Duell, Allison Parent, Megan <Gantry, Pete Turnbull, maybe others). This is good! Don't misunderstand <me. It's the way it's supposed to be. I resent that! I go off topic when the mood or whatever suits, like now. ;) Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

PR1ME system rescue

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well, I just got done winching the CDC 9766 drive down off my truck, and boy are my arms tired... The system is CPU, 32M of ram, 16 I/O ports, a Century 300M 10" drive, a Seagate Sabre attached to a SCSI PORT!! (yay!) a Kennedy 9100 in Prime livery, and the usual load of cables and Stuff. Also: I got the OS (PrimeOS 7.0 rev 20.2.8), a bunch of other tapes, including a 7" reel marked 'games'. and several boxes of docs and manuals. I have no idea how to tell what overall 'model' the system is.. if the Primes went by models, like DEC PDP11, etc. I was not all that interested in this machine, since I am *trying* to stick to DEC and only DEC, but now that it's here I think it might be fun to play with. Oh, yeah, it has a Decwriter IV for a console... even came with several boxes of spare ribbons. It was heading for the dumpster.. I *had* to save it. The machine was running when taken out of service and was de-commissioned by the person who bought and operated it, so every thing was marked and stored properly. Cool... **another** project. ;} And, other than the Seagate drive ('91), it's On Topic. Cheers John

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Weird find, QNX, and cooling

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Doug and all, Sorry, I only know the answer to this one: At 03:48 PM 1/9/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hey, any industrial controller collectors out there? I didn't think so. >There are three fans inside the box, but it's sealed. I always thought >that fans worked by exchanging hot air for cooler air. What good are >fans inside a sealed box? > The black case itself is the heatsink. The fans only couple the heat sources to the inside of the case. Sounds pretty neat. -Dave

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

X.25?

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> But anyway, it *CAN'T* be much of a challange, as X.25 is that old > (1), and, perhaps more imporantly, the Iraqi's aren't too bright when > it comes to computer technology. Who says? It's when you _don't_ have a lot of technology when you learn to use what you _do_ have. Like how much more one can learn from an Apple ][ than from a Pentium system. A lot of Russian immigrants to the USA are much better programmers, sysadmins, etc. than americans, because when they were in Russia, they used old, well designed, systems intended for people who knew what they were doing. They are likely to know how to make a 10K program do the work of a 2M program which is what an american would likely write (no offense intened). Plus, who knows? Maybe they modified the protocol...

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

new to the list

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > Incidentally, I find the diversity on this list a good thing. Hearing > about machines that I don't know about, or that I thought 'those are a > poor design' (or worse) about is very interesting to me. So keep on > talking about them.... I'm actually very surprised and disappointed by this newfound fascism. We're _collectors_ or _hobbyists_ who are dealing with classic computers, as well as hanging out on this list for _fun_. The people who shut others up whenever we go mildly off topic, or when a machine they don't like is brought up. Maybe there should be a contract for list subscribers. If you were seeing people discussing something face to face at a party or club meeting or conference that you didn't like, would you tell them to shut up? I hope not, though the internet attracts socially inept creatures. I expect the same level of politeness on the internet, in a civilized discussion which I define this to be. I will not allow technology to take humanity away from people, to the extent that I can. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Stupid CP/M question

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu wrote: > became. If they had just ripped off a better OS, that might have been nice > as well. Something with long file names, or multitasking, or whatever. > And OSs of the time DID have long file names. I don't know about > multitasking (maybe OS/9 or FLEX were around when DOS was born?). Interestingly, there were a number of attempts over the years to make a better OS than DOS. An example is TSX-Lite, a multitasking, 32-bit version of DOS that was shareware last time I looked. It had the right ideas but worked very poorly. Caldera DR-DOS supposedly has multitasking but it hardly works. OS/2 is very resource-intensive, worse than Windows 95. Which makes me wonder; maybe something good could have been done before Linux came about, but everyone was too lazy? ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

CM-5 color monitor

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Anyone in the US or APO/FPO in need of a good working Tandy CM-5 CGA color monitor? $10 plus shipping and it's yours. It's not really heavy, about 18 or so in weight. Good condition and all cables attached. I live in zip 40144 in case someone needs to speculate the shipping using the parcel calulator at http://www.usps.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

DECstation 5000/125

by joe＠barrera.org

Okay, okay, so a DECstation 5000/125 isn't very "vintage". But I did manage to save one from certain death from my grad school (Carnegie Mellon), and it has a nice big 21" monitor, two big 5 1/4" SCSI drives (each around 1/2 a GB)... and no bootable OS. It used to run Mach (I was on the Mach project at CMU), but I'd really like to run VMS on the thing. Does anyone know how/where/if I can get VMS loaded onto this guy? Thanks all, - Joe

27 years, 3 months

7
6
0 0

compucolors

by jonathan＠canuck.com

Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> trashed my theory with: > For the same reason some (many?) people here like their Commodore 64's & > VIC-20's. _Personally_, I have no use for them (save a couple from the > dumpster, but not even powered 'em up -- will be up for trade fodder soon) > but for a lot of people on this list, they were their first computer. > Sentimentality goes a *long* way on this list (which is his reason for > owning the computer you don't want, BTW). Believe me, many folks are just > as turned off by my RS/Tandys & Ataris & whatnot... but that's o.k. too. Ya-but... Look, just like everything else, there's "old good" and "old shit". Lots of mediocre music was written two hundred years ago, which is why I refuse to acknowledge "classical" music as a genre than has any inherent value in defining the music. Just because it's old, it isn't by definition good. Thus, I don't recognize anything particularly interesting in machines that were badly-designed landfill-before-their-time any more than I do in mass- market machines like the Radio Shacks and Ataris you mentioned. I see a historical preserve (such as this) as being one better dominated by systems that were examples of true innovation, and those tend to be the ones below the radar of the consumer market. Do I have a problem with people who want to fill their garages with original chiclet-keyboard-and-internal-cassette Commodore PET 2001s? Hell, no. Enjoy 'em; start your own list dedicated to 'em; stay outa my receding hair. I came here to find someone as serious as me who can help me program 1702s. This thread was about Compucolors. I ran a service bench when they first came out, maintained them, and they were living, breathing junk. That notwithstanding, I held onto a board set and a bunch of parts for many years in hope of making it into my first machine with a color display. When I discovered old SGIs, you can only guess how fast the Compucolor parts hit the dumpster that they so richly deserved. > Hang in there, find the delete key, and I guarantee you you *will* learn a > lot while being on this list. I have. Wish it was that easy, old son. On an average day I get about 200 pieces of "real" (ie non-list) mail. That's why I insist on receiving ANY list via digest - I can't afford to have a single list double the number of messages I receive per day. So reading a 4500-line, 150-message digest is a considerable amount of work, and not one that the "delete" key helps with. Of course I want to learn. But not at the expense of endless dreary discussions in the overpriced-collector-scum vein, or dreary Merka vs. Euro drooling. I'm in Canadia - I'd have to throw rocks at both sides. Jonathan

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

logical volume manager for mailing list?

by meo＠netads.com

Victor the Cleaner said... | |classiccmp-historical |classiccmp-technical |classiccmp-overblown_prices_collector_scum_die_die_die |classiccmp-more_about_television_licensing_really That's only the beginning. classiccmp-make-money-fast classiccmp-bill-gates-sucks classiccmp-bill-gates-rulez classiccmp-religious-arguments The list really isn't that high volume. I've seen much worse. But mailing lists are why God invented the "D" key. -Miles

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

little old machines

by jonathan＠canuck.com

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> intoned: > Oh sure, just drop on in and casually mention your MCS-4, the most > desirable SBC on the planet. Do you need docs? Hans P. might know where > to find them. And Hans F. has a few SC/MP SBC's. And we all have > handheld PDP-8's, so the Intersil is dull stuff. :-) Gee, wasn't just looking to brag or anything... I've actually been curious rare the Intel is. I'd be interested in knowing how many are out there. I'm okay on docs, but there's missing silicon, including the monitor proms. Help! Jonathan

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

new to the list

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 yowza(a)yowza.com wrote: > Amiga to have happened in 1975, but if Bill Gates had stayed home and > Linus Torvalds had been born a little earlier, man what a cool world we'd > have today, 25 years later. To tell you the truth, if Bill Gates had stayed home and Linus Torvalds had never been born, we would have been even better off. I'm using Linux right now, so I have Linus to thank. But then, I'm using a crappy Compaq laptop which would never have been made (or made but not this crappy) if not for Bill Gates. Linux is a solution to a problem that should not have come about in the first place. I'd much rather be using some version of the Dynabook, or an Amiga, or something totally different. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

new to the list

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/9/99 8:06:42 AM EST, gram(a)cnct.com writes: << By the way, whover was making the threat to someone else, I'd love to have an RT myself. Second best keyboard ever made. -- >> i finally got my RT going after an individual from the RT newsgroup sent me a keyboard since mine didnt come with one when i got it for $10. Seems to be a standard corporate IBM buckling spring keyboard like i use everyday, except the keyboard connector is shaped like the PCjr model! a standard keyboard could probably be hacked to fit an RT. it seems the machine wont boot all the way without the keyboard. now my RT boots AIX 2.1.2 i think and although i can login as root thanks to the password taped to the side of the machine when i got it, i have no idea what it can do. anyone know the location of some kind of AIX tutorial. I found a dos<->AIX command ref on the net, and although i did find a AIX FAQ, it's over my head. I need something a little simpler.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Computer collector on Jeopardy!

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>You guessed it the COSMAC Elf! And IIRC, the article was "Build a COSMAC >Elf for Less than $100" >Anyone got the issue date? August 1976 "for about $80" CDP1802 64K addressable On chip DMA 16X16 matrix of registers Flexible I/O Francois > >--Chuck >

27 years, 3 months

8
13
0 0

OSF/1, DE, IBM, and Tektronix

by meo＠netads.com

D. Peschel said... | |What _I_ want to know is the relationship between OSF/1, a.k.a. Digital |UNIX, and AIX. The manual entry for stanza(4) on our DEC system is the same |as OSF/1 1.0, and it's SO badly written that only IBM could have done it. |Plus stanzas are an IBM-ism anyway. I bet the entry is pretty much the same |on AIX systems, too. (I just checked and our AIX doesn't have it. So I |don't know -- it's just a guess.) DEC first seriously attacked the UNIX market with Ultrix, which was almost a pure BSD port. Over time they added a bunch of stuff to it. They had a few really cool things, like they dxdiff, easily the best GUI-based diff I've used. Then along came OSF, a hodgepodge of UNIX vendors scared of the idea of Sun and AT&T getting together and taking over the world. So they put together OSF/1. This included people from a whole mess of computer vendors, but DEC and IBM wre probably the biggest contributors. The reference platform was a DECStation ?000 (I forget which one). By the time OSF/1 actually came out, it was obvious that it was a fair example of design by committee, and the AT&T/Sun alliance had pretty well faded away. So DEC, for who knows what reason, oter than that they had the goods, decided to swap Ultrix out and OSF/1 in. And everyone else went back to whatever they had been doing before - AIX, HP/UX, whatever. OSF actually did some cool stuff, but they had some real problems, too. I was working at SecureWare, who was doing the security stuff for OSF/1, and I remember new sandbox drops every day, and bugs that had been fixed reappearing over and over in their original form, and just general mayhem. My favorite part, though, was when we built the kernel and X11 fully debugged, to track down a really nasty problem. Just booting the OS ate up 70 or 80 MB of the 128MB in our DECStation, and adding X11 on the hi-res screen ate up the rest of the RAM and a fair bit of swap space. Then I tried to log in, which took almost an hour exactly, beating the snot out of the disk drive, until it finally came up - having used over 100MB of swap space. Starting a Motif app ate the rest of our 256MB of swap space over the course of two hours or so, at which time the system just rolled over and stuck its little feet up in the air. We never found the bug. Three or four builds later, it was gone, somehow. Nobody at OSF knew where it came from, where it went, or why. Oh, well. My desktop machine at the time was the last of the Tektronix 68K-based systems running a BSD variant. It was slower than their ill-fated 88K systems, but those ran SVR4, and mine was fast enoug for me. It was a spiffy machine for the time. Of course, I was just glad I wasn't running A/UX on really slow Apples like most of my co-workers! -Miles

27 years, 3 months

2
2
0 0

new to the list

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Zane H. Healy wrote: < <> Number 7?!?!?!? Give me a break, there is no better coffee table than a <> BA123, unless it's perhaps some of the IBM RS/6000's (and that's all <> they're good for) < <Zane, where do you live? Bill Donzelli and I need to make an <appointment to come out and hurt you. It would appear education is best attained with the extended use of 2x4 technology. IE: SMACK!, Listen up! :) :) :) Allison

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Computer collector on Jeopardy!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Chuck and Francois wrote: < <> >You guessed it the COSMAC Elf! And IIRC, the article was "Build a COSMA <> >Elf for Less than $100" < <Are you guys sure? I'm almost positive that was in Popular Electronics, <and not Popular Science! < <I still say it was the ZX81. What do I win, Alex? The ELF was introduced in Popular Electronics. the Sinclair was introduced in Popular Science. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Stupid CP/M question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Can someone tell me the CP/M command to copy a single file or program <on my Kaypro from drive B: to drive A: <I do not want to copy the whole disk just a single file or two.. <Thanks, Phil... Your gonna hate this... > PIP B:=A:file.foo Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Computer collector on Jeopardy!

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Yes it was in Popular Electronics that the Cosmac Elf was described. I would give my vote to the ZX81, THe price is right $99 and I know that it came as a kit (i built mine in 1982) actually it was my first computer. -----Original Message----- From: Miles O'Neal <meo(a)netads.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:33 AM Subject: Re: Computer collector on Jeopardy! >Doug Yowza said... >| >|I still say it was the ZX81. What do I win, Alex? > >I never saw that in a kit form... >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K Test Program

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/9/99 8:47:47 AM EST, gene(a)ehrich.com writes: << It works real well. My Aptiva 133 failed auto rollover to 2000 test but passed the rest. It's worth getting a copy. Don't know if the list carries it but I have attached a copy to this message. It's a self extracting ZIP file that must be run from DOS. >> uh, file attachments are a no-no... www.pc.ibm.com/year2000 is another place to go to download a test program and also a driver that will autochange the century byte for lazy computer users that wont issue the date command. david

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Pearls of Wisdom

by rcini＠msn.com

Doug's "Ten Reasons Why I Collect Computers" inspired me to start compiling the Pearls of Wisdom of our list members. I'll be culling these from our daily e-mail, but if anyone wants to contribute directly, e-mail me privately. Once I have a page or two, I'll post it to my Web site for all to read (and laugh at, hopefully). [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Sociology and Message formatting

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 12:48 PM 1/8/1999 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > >> > > Shure, today they are no longer produced with typewriters and >> > > Spiritusumdrucker (sorry missing word - a copyingdevice using >> > > special sheets and spirit for duplication), but rather on PCs >> > > or high class DTP stations, but thats just the tool. >> > >> > Spiritusumdrucker! What a fantastic word! I think that would be a >> > mimeograph? >> >> I always heard them called ditto machines. Print in blue ink that wipes off. > >Sure but I think the actual latin name for them is mimeograph. > >> We had them in grade school. We did NOT have a photocopier - they were > >Me too. I used to have ditto duty making copies for the teacher. I also >used to make up mazes and got to use the machine to make copies for the >classmates. > >> apparently monstrously expensive to purchase and maintain at the time. >> By the time I got to high school inexpesive photocopiers were readily >> available, although we used the ditto machines even then. The >> photocopier was fine for short runs or things where copy quality was >> important. The ditto machine was faster and much cheaper per copy. >> Of course I'm sure the ink on the master and the solvent on the >> machine are carcinogens... (just kidding) > >By the time I was in high school dittos were a distant memory. To put it >in (classiccmp) perspective, by that time inkjets were still on the >horizon and dot matrix printers were still the shit. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 12/27/98] > > The Mimeograph (an Edison invention) used ink, as did the Gestetner (sp?) while the Ditto used alcohol. I still have a 1909 Mimeograph in my collection. Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Sociology and Message formatting

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 10:10 AM 1/8/1999 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > >> Shure, today they are no longer produced with typewriters and >> Spiritusumdrucker (sorry missing word - a copyingdevice using >> special sheets and spirit for duplication), but rather on PCs >> or high class DTP stations, but thats just the tool. > >Spiritusumdrucker! What a fantastic word! I think that would be a >mimeograph? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 12/27/98] > > That was a DITTO machine, at one time handled by Bell & Howell. They had to pull them out of the schools around here because the alcohol fumes made everyone squiffy. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

ON-TOPIC: The PD-32 CPU

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

I keep reading little pieces of information about this chip. (Actually, it could be a multi-chip set... I don't know.) Apparently, it's _public-domain hardware_. What a concept! :) Has anyone actually seen a system based on this thing? What? Where did I read about it, you ask? I think it might have been in _Life with UNIX_, but I really don't remember. And it's too late to do a Web search. I should really be in bed. I'm surprised the FSF hasn't bought PD-32 systems en masse. It would be the perfect platform to run the HURD on. -- Derek

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K stuff

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 9 January 1999 9:36 Subject: Re: Y2K stuff >At 05:33 PM 1/4/99 -0700, you wrote: >snip< >An unrelated but similar (and ironically timed) issue is that of the new US >20 dollar bills. I have seen a lot of vending machines/gas pumps/etc. that >indicate they cannot handle the new bills. Are they polymer rather than paper like all ours are now? >The problem is, bills typically last 18 months at most. The plastic stuff lasts somewhat longer, one reason why they now use it here. To save money, the govt withdrew all coins below 5c, we now have $1 & $2 coins, and notes for $5, $10, $20, $50 & $100, all plastic with fancy printing and a transparent window. Near impossible to counterfeit. (Which is the other reason it was done) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

4
5
0 0

who wrote the Legion article?

by meo＠netads.com

Either in 1978 or around 1980 or 81, I recall reading an article on AI-based image recognition with a micro like the Altair or IMSAI. All in machine code, of course, toggled in. The guy called it Legion, because it was based on a bunch of cells all making decisions. I think it may have been a 5x5 grid of cells, each with its own algorithm for voting yes or no. He would then show it a shape (enter some data 8^), and Legion would, based on the vote, tell him something (I forget what). Then he would tell Legion the real answer. The cells that voted correctly earned points, those that voted incorrectly lost points. As a cell lost points, it would eventually cross 0, at which point it was a failure, and was cast out. A different cell (algorithm) would take its place. The idea was that hopefully, the cells would eventually populate with algorithms with a high success rate. He miscoded a test, though, and only the cells that hit 0 exactly were cast out (into pigs, perhaps), but those that jumped from +1 to -1 kept voting. A program dump showd that some of these cells had actually been performing a good service. Anyone recall (much less have) this article? It was very well written (a bit tongue in cheek)... -Miles

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Need Help was Old bank accounts

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

OK, I give up! Since the list is no longer plain text, will someone familiar with Eudora Pro 4.0 PLEASE tell me how to configure Eudora it so that formatting like this: ****************** START PASTE ************************* ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE3A7A.7073A200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> ***************** END PASTE **************************** Doesn't cause the rest of the digest to look like this: ***************** START PASTE ************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:35:15 -0600 From: "Paul Braun" To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Kim-1 Computer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 06:57:41 -0600 (CST) Send reply to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu From: Doug Yowza To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: RE: Kim-1 Computer Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Mine is a late model S/N 6176, postage cancled on May 18, 1977. > >From the few data points so far, I'd say we've got monotonically > increasing serial numbers starting with 1. (Of course, if they were C > programmers, then the first one is S/N 0.) > > -- Doug OK. I had to look. My second KIM is #1051 with a Rev. A board. It has the white ceramic MOS chips. This one shows plenty of wear, however. It's mounted on a piece of masonite with a socket for the one edge connector, a little bracket for a couple of 1/8" phone plugs (tape connections), an expansion port (Centronics-type, I assume this is where it was cabled up to a modified Selectric) and a terminal strip for power. The LED's have had sockets installed under them, since I assume the originals burned out. The 6502 also is socketed. This KIM was used by Stan Ockers and Jim Butterfield while writing the "First Book of KIM". Stan would take it, in the little briefcase he gave me along with it, to a computer club meeting in Chicago where a guy had an IBM Selectric that he had modified to work as a printer. Stan would load the programs he, Jim, and their partner (sorry -- don't have my FBOK in front of me and the other name escapes me) had written, and then print them out on the Selectric. These printouts were then cut and pasted into the layout for the book. Is the bottom numbe on the die cover the date code? If so, my 6502 is dated 1576. The thing is, regardless of how much they sell for on e-pay, it means so much more to me that Stan sat down and talked to me for an hour and a half about the book and computing in those days and then gave me his KIM that I couldn't think about selling it. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware(a)laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware ********************* END PASTE ******************* THANK YOU VERY MUCH ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

new to the list

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Miles O'Neal <meo(a)netads.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 9 January 1999 18:42 Subject: Re: new to the list >I've a good mind to send a gaggle of RTs to your door! You can send them to mine if you like, I don't have one, and I'd love geniune Big Blue RISC machine of my very own..... Do they come with an O/S? :^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Alan/Andy Kay

by joe＠barrera.org

> > Well now that we are on the subject of Kaypro...What ever happened to Alan Kay ? > > Is this guy still around ? > You mean Andy Kay? Yes, he is still around. Alan Kay is also still around and quite active in the Squeak community, Squeak being a portable revival of Smalltalk. He's now at Disney, believe it or not. Which leads to the question... anyone on this list have any Xerox Stars (running Smalltalk, of course)? Cheers, - Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Kay <alank(a)wdi.disney.com> To: <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 1999 4:51 PM Subject: Re: How difficult is multiple inheritance? >Folks -- > >There is a cooler and most interesting way to approach all this. Much of >the seminal work was done around the late 70s in PARC Smalltalk by Ira >Goldstein and Danny Bobrow -- it was called PIE: Personal Information >Environment -- and they have been written up as PARC Blue Books (as noted >by Mike Klein previously to the Squeak list) ; *and* they can sometimes be >obtained from PARC. > The basic idea is to have an object made up of multiple perspectives >e.g. a given object could have the perspectives of being an employer, an >employee, a father, a son, etc., *and* the perspective of being an object. >The internal representational strategy they used was to let a logical >object be made of as many Smalltalk instances as were needed, especially if >the perspectives were disjoint enough to give fits to simple-minded >mulitple inheritance schemes. > >I have been a big fan of this general approach since Goldstein got it >running. There are also a wealth of other terrific ideas in their papers. > >Cheers, > >Alan

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

RT - the rude, the bad, and the ugly

by meo＠netads.com

jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net said... | |Is those RT's that bad? is there will be a problem if I tear it |apart for its parts, the shipping and trying to selling would be a |problem except no problem shipping parts except for case. RTs were pretty bad. They were s l o o o o w w w... And they had the most bastardized version of anything daring to claim any kinship to UNIX that you can imagine. The manuals were terrible. I suspect that if you were from an IBM mainframe world, being forced at gunpoint to consider PCs and UNIX and such, they were heaven-sent. But to those of us already working with workstations and micros, they were the Red Menace that Senator McCarthy warned the world about - they just happened to be Blue. |If you're really using the classics and using it as tables or |something, protect them from spills, bumps etc.. Quick vignettes... 1) I contracted for IBM here in Austin for a while. There was an RT on the austin.ibm.com network named "doorstop". AFAIK, about all it was being used for was to answer the pings for "doorstop". 2) At PSW, Frank King (the IBM upper manager who more or less built the IBM workstation division) had just been installed as president when we took him on a tour of the premises. As we escorted him into the secure lab, his eyes lit up as he saw an RT. ``An RT! Wonderful! What do you use this for?'' Tom Stewart pushed it in front of the door to hold it open. ``A doorstop? What else?'' 3) During the time I was at IBM (14 months) I saw rooms and rooms full of RTs. I kinda have to laugh, thinking about what they were paying for space. One of the graphics labs had about 30 linear feet of wall space, 10 feet high, just stacked with the processor boxes, because they were running out of other places to put them. I never figured out what they were doing with them - whether they couldn't give them away, or were afraid to, or what. If I had one, I would probably protect it. If I had two, I would protect one. For the other, I would have an auction. The high bidder would get to step out back onto the rifle range (why have 5 acre sin Texas without a rifle range?), and put a 7.62mm bullet into the RT's evil, beating heart. And in Austin, there would be *lots* of bidders. I might not make $6,818.00, but I'd make enough to pay my ISDN bill for a while... -Miles Nah, I'm sure there are 3rd world countries that would take them. But after they had them a while, they'd be even more pissed at the US than they are now... 8^/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Computer collector on Jeopardy!

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

At 07:10 PM 1/8/99 -0800, you wrote: > ... he said it was the first one he ever >owned, which was a kit he bought thru Popular Science for $99. His name >was Dennis. Is there a Dennis lurking on this list?? :) And the computer was .... You guessed it the COSMAC Elf! And IIRC, the article was "Build a COSMAC Elf for Less than $100" Anyone got the issue date? --Chuck

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

y2k stuff

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:48 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > o *DATA* - what about all those data files which have been > recorded over the years? What form was date stored? Working on a work-around at the moment wherein we need to store 5 digit numbers, but the database (deployed at nearly 400 stores around the western US) has only 2 bytes for this field. Unfortunately, COBOL only allows values up to 9999 to be stored in a two byte field, even though 2 bytes can (in theory) hold numbers from 0 to 65535 (or -32766 to 32767 or so). So we need 4 bytes for COBOL to be able to deal with the new data. But, to roll out a database change like that to the stores would take 5-6 months (can't just muck around with live production systems, you know, and you can't do anything while the stores are open (i.e., taking in $$$).) Interestingly, the numbers we need to deal with are all less than 32000, so they will fit in 2 bytes. So the work-around will be to store the data as two character bytes and convert that within the program into a temporary 4 byte field. So what happens when the numbers get bigger than 32K? Well, I'm sure the system will have been replaced by then... 8^) (Actually, it will have; the new, replacement system was supposed to have been finished by now. We're just patching the old system until it's done.) >There are going to be more and more failures as we get closer. Last >year, there was a report that an insurance company which normally >issued 3-year policies could only do two-year. If they haven't >fixed the problem, they're probably down to one year now... In the late 1980's, I worked with a company that wrote software for leasing companies. Companies that leased big computers and heavy equipment. In addition to getting to know amortization tables intimately (I used to know the formula to compute payments/periods/rates/etc. by heart!) I got to know the y2k bug pretty well -- most of the leases were 10 year leases. We had a y2k version out by '90 or so. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

KayPro still in business!

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hey, check this out! KayPro is still in business: www.kaycomputers.com Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98]

27 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

FREE Kaypro II in Baltimore

by rws＠eagle.ais.net

Janet Morehouse in Baltimore has a Kaypro II that she is willing to give away to whoever wants to come and pick it up. Whoever's local, give her a jingle at MorehouseJ(a)dhmh.state.md.us. Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Americans (was: Re: Message formats)

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Fox <foxvideo(a)wincom.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 9 January 1999 0:50 Subject: Re: Americans (was: Re: Message formats) >At 01:12 PM 1/7/1999 +0000, you wrote: > The country is fine, but we always manage to elect nincompoops to govern it. You don't have a monopoly on that. We seem to have the same problem. It's probably due to the fact that mostly nincompoops run for office. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

4
3
0 0

Computer collector on Jeopardy!

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hey, check this out! I was just watching Jeopardy and the first contestant said he was a collector of antique computers! Alex asked him what his oldest computer was and he said it was the first one he ever owned, which was a kit he bought thru Popular Science for $99. His name was Dennis. Is there a Dennis lurking on this list?? :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98]

27 years, 3 months

2
2
0 0

DECstation 5000/125

by joe＠barrera.org

Seth, Doug, Thanks, you're right, I'm confused. Looks like I'll track down NetBSD for my DECstation, and look into buying a VAXstation 3100 at some point. Thanks again, - Joe

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

y2k stuff

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>>I've also been told by some credit card company call center reps that they >>couldn't do something or other for me because the "computer wouldn't let >>them". > > Don't you know a brush-off when you hear it? Employees LOVE to blame > things on the computer! Reminds me of an event a couple of years ago. As those of you who have met me will know, I am something of an eccentric. A few years ago, I had a medical examination and the doctor, sorry, physician (I doubt he has a doctor's degree) who examined me said I needed glasses, go and see an optician. I went to see the optician and had an eye test. I then tried to order a monocle. There are (apparently) two standard monocle frames available, and (complete with lens) the price was L42. Easy? No. Nothing we could do or say could convince the order processing software that one could order a frame with only one lens. Eventually we got the price down to L45 - L42 for frame and one lens, and L3 for fitting an existing lens to the other side. The girl taking the order then had to go and find her superior, who used special authority to give me a 3 pound discount. So don't dismiss it too soon if someone says the computer won't let them do it. Philip.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

DECstation 5000/125

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Okay, okay, so a DECstation 5000/125 isn't very "vintage". But I did manag <to save one from certain death from my grad school (Carnegie Mellon), and i <has a nice big 21" monitor, two big 5 1/4" SCSI drives (each around 1/2 a <GB)... and no bootable OS. < <It used to run Mach (I was on the Mach project at CMU), but I'd really lik <to run VMS on the thing. < <Does anyone know how/where/if I can get VMS loaded onto this guy? No you can't. It's not a VAX or Alpha, it's a MIPS processor so the choices other than MACH is UNIX or some flavor of unix. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

KIM-1 serial nos, etc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<:: Perhaps this will help others out there in dating KIMs.... I tried <::slicing into the card to count the rings, but the results were <::inconclusive. < <I can definitely say, without even getting mine out of the closet, that I <probably have one of the youngest. Mine is a Revision D KIM-1, and it's <a Commodore board, not a MOS Technology one. The one I have is a 1977 (date codes on chips) with REV-B etch and the only number on it is a crude 5404 white stamp on the back. It works! Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

new to the list

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<SC/MP, and Intersil 6100 (the pdp8-compatible one) respectively. I'd also <like to hear from anyone who has or is familiar with any of these machines I have working examples of both, interesting machines. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K stuff

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:29 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >> Is it? My current credit card has an expiry date after the end of this >> year and I've never had any problems with it. I've got a credit card that expires in '00 and it doesn't work!!! Oh wait, it's at the limit. Never mind. 8^) >I think that 'maintenance errors' could potentially occur in power plants, >and what is more likely, some will be shut down just in case. Sure, and since I might crash into a building, I'll drive my car into one, just in case. There are a lot of people out there looking at what will happen on 1/1/00 (and, btw, 1/1/99, 2/29/00, 1/1/27, etc.) myself included. As a related anecdote, I recently found (and fixed) a M12 bug -- the system I wrote to manage events and generate web pages and e-mails for the Free List (http://www.sinasohn.com/freelist/) crashed and burned at the beginning of December because I had screwed up the date computations. A few frantic hours later and the Free List went out, better late than never. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

altaircomputers.org update...

by David.Freibrun＠mvo.cendant.com

What's new? * Altair related auction archives from Ebay for 11/98, 12/98 now online * classiccmp archives w/Altair keyword available in easily searchable format * Steve Shepard inventory of Altair documentation now online * Altair owner registry is better organized and growing * New links always being added! > David Freibrun > http://altaircomputers.org > david.freibrun(a)mvo.cendant.com > (949)367-3881 >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Sociology and Message formatting

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 9 January 1999 5:44 Subject: Re: Sociology and Message formatting >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > >> Shure, today they are no longer produced with typewriters and >> Spiritusumdrucker (sorry missing word - a copyingdevice using >> special sheets and spirit for duplication), but rather on PCs >> or high class DTP stations, but thats just the tool. > >Spiritusumdrucker! What a fantastic word! I think that would be a >mimeograph? Quite probably. Spiritusumdrucker means "printer using spirits"? I think. Well, we just called it a Spirit Duplicator. We used to use them when I was still in Air Traffic Services to run off Pre Flight Information Bulletins for Pilots, (a list of NOTAMS, WX etc for their flight). Prior to that, we used to prepare them by means of a local teleprinter, with a perf tape that had the current stuff on it. Took a while though. (75 baud) By the time I left, we had caught up and were using a conventional photocopier. Cheers Geoff Roberts. Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

potholes

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I think there's a few in PA that could take at least a mainframe. Maybe two... -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Fox <foxvideo(a)wincom.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 2:17 AM Subject: potholes > > Did anyone catch the bit on ABC news last night about the use of old >computers to fill potholes? > I think some of our Windsor potholes would require at least a mini. > > Regards > > Charlie Fox > > > Charles E. Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada > email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo > >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

"Non-manufacturers"

by cfandt＠netsync.net

At 12:53 01/08/99 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > >> Were there many computer companies, if any, who were not manufacturers but, >> like RCA from around 1921 to 1928, sales-only outfits? I'm thinking of >> pre-PC compatible days, '82 and earlier, because as you know, any major or >> fly-by-night outfit could put their name on a PC nowadays. Also, strictly >> non-PC computer companies are included even up to ten years ago (to keep it >> on classics). Keep it on-topic and change your Subject line if you reply on >> some other on-topic subject. > >Sure, plenty! I can't think of a whole lot of good examples right now, >but for starters there was Bell & Howell with their "RARE!" black Apple II >models. Were those black models part of the equipment one got with the Bell & Howell mail order computer electronics school? If so, I had not thought of that type of "non-manufacturer". --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K stuff

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:33 PM 1/4/99 -0700, you wrote: >those credit card pumps may not be ok, even if the credit card is. Do I An unrelated but similar (and ironically timed) issue is that of the new US 20 dollar bills. I have seen a lot of vending machines/gas pumps/etc. that indicate they cannot handle the new bills. The problem is, bills typically last 18 months at most. I expect that by summer, we won't see any more old-style $20's in circulation. A real problem if they haven't updated the machines yet. (Hmmm... Maybe I'll start hoarding old 20's... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

y2k stuff

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:25 PM 1/4/99 -0700, you wrote: >What boggles the mind is that this is a problem at all. It seems hard to >believe (in retrospect) that people really did deliberately build software >with only 2 digit years. I know it saved a few bytes, and yes, I remember 1,000,000 records (a small sample) x 2 bytes x 3 dates (birthdate, initial trx, most recent trx) = 6,000,000 bytes. That was a lot 20 years ago. Keep in mind, also, that reading in a record required enough workspace to hold the record, and this may have been a limiting factor as well. Not to mention bandwidth issues -- we may not think much of downloading a 6MB file now, but imagine doing that 20 years ago with a 300bps modem. >when a byte of memory was a significant amount, but still. How did standard >programming practice come to be so short sighted as to assume that software >infrastructure would be thrown out and replaced on a regular basis? Today it is. We keep hoping that one of these days Microbloat will get it right... 8^) But seriously, 20+ years ago, it wasn't so much that it was expected that it would be replaced as it was the idea that if they can get the software out the door now, they may still be around to fix the problem later, whereas if they hold off, they may not be around. It was also a self-perpetuating problem. No point in building a 4-digit date if your source data (internal or external) is 2-digits. In fact, a 4-digit program might fail if given 2-digit data. There are lots of reasons, many of them valid (at the time). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Osborne 01 for only $5000.00 - new Scam???

by Innfogra＠aol.com

> > I wonder if it was a mistyped $50.00.... > -- Somehow I doubt it. I looked at this listing extensively because it has links to his web site. He has very interesting comments about ebay. He states he makes a living off ebay but I notice he is a stockbroker. Looking at his current auctions he specializes in collectable ceramics and coins at normal realistic prices. He has some Transoceanic tube radios that have not met their reserves. The Osborne is a nice collectable with lots of SW and Documentation. These are the type of items that bring high prices. However his asking price is ridiculous. I think this is a classic case of speculation by someone who is not knowledgeable in the field but has a nice find. What is interesting is that he does know how to sell on ebay. This, the recent Kaypro and other high priced asking prices have lead me to wonder if there is a new scam being played on ebay. With all the hits it is a great source of advertising. List something at a high asking price or reserve. You pay $2. People who are really interested I think would contact the seller after the sale to try to find out what happened. The seller could then negotiate a sale independently, without paying the commission to ebay. The commission on a high-priced item, while not a lot, is considerably more than the $2. The gentleman :) with the Osborne has some very interesting comments about selling on ebay. His site is http://www.freewarehof.org/ It is obvious that he is a speculator. It is also interesting to notice that his site link (rey2) to his current sales on ebay has been delisted by them. His current sales are under a very similar but different name (rey). I communicated with the $1000 Kaypro seller. He wrote me that he pulled the ad after he realized that it was priced to high. He also left me an opening to make an offer. Since I am not buying I didn't reply but I haven't seen it relisted. Marvin, have You seen it again? I don't follow ebay all that well. Paxton

27 years, 3 months

6
5
0 0

That does not compute

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:24 PM 1/1/99 -0800, you wrote: >BBSes are, IMHO, a dying breed. However, they do still fulfill a niche >that the 'net does not. There are significant numbers of people who are Another niche is in local groups that want to provide a forum for their members, but cannot afford to provide net access for all its members. My local Atari club is one such group. Not all atari users in this area are on the net, so a 'net-only solution is not acceptable, and we can't afford to connect the BBS to the 'net. Mind you, it doesn't get used a lot... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Message formats

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> The same is not true of html. It's not the waste of bandwidth - it's the > fact that it's darn difficult to read. And it doesn't convey any extra > meaning Actually, I wouldn't even mind simple html, like <HTML><BODY>message text</BODY></HTML>. But most of those programs make crazy html documents that would make its original authors cringe, no doubt. 20 lines of code, mostly weird numbers and font commands and style sheets and so on. Now _that_ is unreadable, and I don't consider it real html, either. > OK, I'll do {\bf bold face} like that. Documented standard, you know... Of course, doing it *with asterisks* is a lot easier to type and understand. > What about the waste in _my_ resources - the carbon-based computer I am > using to compose this message - in trying to decode the real information > from a pile of useless html tags ? Indeed. Some people think they are doing me and others a great service by sending messages with no value whatsoever, and they think they ought to send it in what format is convenient to _them_. Nah. > Well, there's be a good reason for doing that in the UK. The license for > a colour TV is something like 4 times the cost of one for a black and > white TV. And the extra 'entertainment' might not be worth that much. TVs require licenses in the UK? What about if you buy a CRT and make your own?

27 years, 3 months

6
5
0 0

OT! Re: Message formats

by Marty＠itgonline.com

At the risk of turning off our new list member I'll throw my USD $0.02 into the fray. Commercial vs non-commercial broadcasting was a hot topic back in the early 1920's when broadcasting first began on a large scale in the U.S. Many people were opposed to crass commercials for toothpaste, etc flooding the airwaves and wanted an alternative which would have took the form of a use tax as in England. Interesting but true, one of the first if not the first radio stations that was supported by commercials was WEAF in New York city, one of several commercial stations owned by Ma Bell (AT&T). The chain of stations owned by AT&T were sold to RCA to become NBC in 1926 following anti-trust suit threats and corporate fighting. AT&T and RCA basically had come to a 'gentleman's agreement.' Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: OT! Re: Message formats Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/8/99 2:53 AM On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > The license is for something like 'installing and operating a TV > receiver'. The money from it is used to fund the BBC. One license covers > all the TVs (and VCRs, etc) in use at one 'household'. A colour license > allows you to operate B/W TVs as well (but not vice versa of course). Yes > there are other terms, conditions and exceptions but that will do for now. I'm sorry, but I just gotta say, requiring a license to watch TV is something I would overthrow the government over. I've never heard of a more cockamamy tax. The way we fund public TV and radio in the U.S. is annoying (pledge drives) but they only last for a couple weeks until the necessary funds are accumulated and they only happen but once or twice a year (and I'm proud to say I pay my "membership" dues dutifully...public radio in the US is top notch). ObCC: Can't think of anything so screw it. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan08.025325.1767.90243; Fri, 08 Jan 1999 02:53:26 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id XAA12233; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:51:21 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id XAA2 1758 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:51:09 -0800 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.54]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id XAA20 405 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:51:09 -0800 Received: from shell1-n1 (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06285 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:51:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9901072346200.17756-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:51:08 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: OT! Re: Message formats In-Reply-To: <m0zyKVc-000IyJC@p850ug1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

KIM-1 serial nos, etc.

by jpl15＠netcom.com

My first KIM-1 (from Computer Components, L.A., CA, in 1977) is marked much the same as Marvin describes: It is a MOS KIM, the component side has etched Rev. A, and beneath the KIM-1 logo is etched EC - 715. Beneath that is what looks like a round QC inspection stamp, ?CC 201 ECI in the circle. The earliest chip is a NatSemi LM565CN (7340). The 6102s are all '76, as are the 6502, and both 6530s. The solder side has that 'rubber stamp' looking number between the edge connectors: 3879 [*not* the date] in whitish ink, and to the right is a partially obscured stamp in black, ending in 15. Near the top right is another 'QC' stamp, a circle enclosing ACC, 201, ????. Below this is a partial sqaure stamp, barely readable, with the letters 'est' visible. Below *that* is a partial triangle stamp, not legible at all. Perhaps this will help others out there in dating KIMs.... I tried slicing into the card to count the rings, but the results were inconclusive. Cheers John

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Americans (was: Re: Message formats)

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

Zane Healy wrote: > Again, how typically American! I'm starting to hate American's to the > point I'm looking for another country to move to, since I'm embarrased to > say that I'm an American myself. Anyone know any good countries that I can > move to, and not be embarassed to be associated with? The Internet is not > an American only thing! I'd recommend Britain, except that we hate Americans too, and you might not be too welcome ;-) Canada might be worth a try, though. Philip.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

DEC boards

by rexstout＠uswest.net

Picked up some more goodies, got a Plus+ Hardcard 40 hard drive(SMS OMTI chipset for the controller side! Maybe I can plug it into my Apollos...), and two DEC boards. The first one seems to be a CPU card,, it's part number is L0111. The second one looks like I/O or a drive controller, it's an L0101. I have no idea what they go into, but a glance at my PDP-11 card list has another Lxxxx on it, and it's a Vax card. So maybe I have some VAX cards? I don't know. Anyone know exactly what they are? I really doubt they'll plug into my PDP-11/84, but it might be a good idea to stop me before I try... :-) -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | | ham-mac(a)qth.net Portland, OR | --------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

3
4
0 0

Old bank accounts

by Watzman＠ibm.net

Banks do close inactive accounts. The process is called "Escheatment" (I think I've got that right), and the laws, which are vary specific, vary by state in the US and by whatever government entity elsewhere. The banks do not get to keep the money, however, it is (usually, anyway, again the laws vary) normally turned over to the state, where it remains available on some basis should it be claimed (which is fairly rare).

27 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

Intecolor/Compucolor

by meo＠netads.com

I'd really like to get hold of a functioning (or close) Compucolor or Intecolor from the early 80s. The ones we used at Georgia Tech were all in one unit (I think), a big color monitor console sort of thing, like God's own ADM3a, in technicolor. (I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to remember.) I'd prefer one with a disk drive. I think this was the coolest thing ever for learning graphics stuff. Anyone have one a mere mortal can afford? -Miles

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Kim-1 Computer

by dogas＠leading.net

I think it's a bit niave to think that a KIM-1 is only going to bring 150-250 $ these days on eBay.... My guess would be over 500. Alas - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

7
14
0 0

KIM-1 Computer

by rcini＠msn.com

I just checked my two KIMs for dates. Here's what I have: Board#1: Labeled "Rev. A", oldest chip date 5276 (Dec 76); white numbers on back "2788". The 6502 is a white ceramic DIP with a "3776" date code. Board#2: Labeled "Rev. B", oldest chip date 4276 (Oct 76); white numbers on back "5895". The 6502 is a white ceramic DIP with a "3776" date code. Small tag says that the 6502 has been replaced. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Banks

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

Philip.Belben(a)PowerTech.co.uk >AFAIK there is nothing in any contract I take out with a bank that says >that if I deposit money and leave it there for over 2 years they are >entitled to it. I come back 10 or 20 years later expecting to retrieve my >savings. Yes, I did this with my German bank account in 1995 having not >touched it since (I think) 1985. It was still there and I could still draw >money out when on holiday in Germany. When I was about 3 months old my parents opened an account with Barclays in my name with about ?2 in it. When I turned 12 the bank began to send me letters saying that, because of the interest gained I now had ?7. When I turned 16 the bank suddenly lost all information about me, resulting in the loss of that money. I'm not saying it's a great deal and it's not as if I spend sleepless nights worrying about it but I'd like to know where my money went and why did the account disappear. This type of thing does happen and the blame is usually placed on "computer error." The Y2k problem is just a convenient way of "accidentally" losing some of the information regarding many of the accounts that are considered non-active. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star"

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Boot Disk Needed

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! Does anyone have a boot disk for an NEC APC III? I found that my error when I try to boot is because of the "Stoned" Virus. One other question: Is there any way to replace the 720k 5.25" (That's what I was told it had) with either a 360k floppy, or a 720k 3.5" drive? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Altair kits??

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<QUESTION - to any of the folks out there who <put these kits together originally... <Is this the way you received them from MITS? <With the front panel and/or the power supply <pre-wired and assembled? Altairs were available two ways Assembled and Tested and pure kit. the pure kit ones ALL the board had to be populated and the FP was one of the worst with all the leds. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

TV Licenses was Re: Message formats

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 8 January 1999 8:43 Subject: Re: Message formats >Needless to say they didn't know. Nor do they know what license (if any) >is needed to receive amateur television... Can't help with the other examples, but IIRC, in days of old, when we had such things as TV licenses, it was still legal for an amateur (or non-amateur) to use amateur tv without a broadcast listeners license. The test was whether the tv transmission was on a normal broadcast channel and could be received on an unmodified tv. If it needed a separate rx then you didn't need a license. The PMG had just about lost interest in the whole concept of receiver licensing by this stage anyway, though they made a last attempt to get people to comply with a massive (for those times) tv and radio adverstising campaign which didn't really net too many more licenses. Shortly thereafter, they dropped the whole system. The only receivers that require a license these days are certain satellite systems (under some special circumstances). Otherwise you are free to look/listen to anything you like. (Except mobile phones - in theory) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Mathiputer

by yowza＠yowza.com

Don't tell Andrew Davie, but I'm trying to compete with him in the realm of weird computing machines. I just took delivery of a Cybernetic Systems Mathiputer. It's a stupid odd-shaped math toy that quizes you on arithmetic. It looks like somebody took a steel globe, split it in half, and put the two halves back together inside out and sideways (hey, Chuck, I need a diagram here). It had LED's, incadescent lights, and three rotary switches for input. Weird enough? It appears to be from around 1974, and it's got several ceramic and gold Fairchild parts. Some are 3XXXDC series, such as 3807DC. Does this ring a bell for anybody? Was there a CPU or calc chip in that series? -- Doug

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

The Apostrophic War

by meo＠netads.com

Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com said... | |So don't dismiss it too soon if someone says the computer won't let them do |it. Years ago my dad got fed up with the fact that he had a couple dozen gas, credit and other cards with our name spelled without an apostrophe. He called, wrote letters, and generally waged a one man war. People were calling back begging him to please keep the cards, the computers did it, there was no way. Dad eventually cut most of them up and sent them back. He even had a VP or two call him! Dad had an ace in the hole. He knew a COBOL programmer, who explained that it was just basically stupidity, laziness, or being overly clever that led to these problems, and reminded him that our bank used computers and COBOL, and that everything related to us at the bank had apostrophes in our name. Dad eventually did manage to talk to MIS people at a couple of the companies, and after a bit of argument they agreed that this would be resolved within a year. Dad was amazed that it would take this long, but when they talked about budgets and politics he calmed down (since he was head of a college chemistry department and acting dean). Eventually they came through. I've always wondered just how much Dad's private war had to do with the fact that today, the commercial computer program that won't take apostrophes in a name (at least in the USA 8^) is rare. Now if the programmers would just program searches to try it with and without the apostrophe when one is entered (since people still leave them out on occasion...) -Miles

27 years, 3 months

5
7
0 0

Message formats

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 6, 18:33, Barry A. Watzman wrote: > Subject: Message formats > > [ plain text > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : I am NOT sending in HTML format, but it is MIME encoded. Sorry, but I use my E-Mail client (Windows messaging) for more than just this discussion group, and I need the ability to send and receive formatted text for some of them, including my employer. I'm not going to change formats on a message-by-message basis just to eliminate the equals signs at the ends of the lines. No, it's not just MIME-encoded. We're not complaining about equals signs at the ends of lines (which, incidentally, arise because Microsoft don't understand MIME). Apart from this message, all the ones I've seen from you have been encoded as "multipart/alternative". The few I've bothered to read (because it IS a bother) have contained a copy in some other format as well as the plain text. And as you can see from the way my mailer has quoted your message, the lines aren't split except at paragraph breaks. You need to get a mailer that works :-) "Windows messaging"? Do you mean Microsoft Mail? Or something like Outlook? I can assure you that it is possible to configure Microsoft mailers to send formatted HTML (which IMHO should not be allowed at all) or RTF in such a way that normal mailers simply see a plain text plus an attachment. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 3 months

8
7
0 0

That does not compute

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:37 PM 1/1/99 +1100, you wrote: >somewhere, the words "that does not compute" in a silly monotonic >computer-like voice. Annoyed the hell out of me! Was it just me this Remember how hilarious it was back then when Scotty picked up the mouse and said "com-PUT-er..."? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

A new Altair record price

by bill＠chipware.com

Marvin wrote: > Doug Yowza wrote: > > > > So, now we know how much an unassembled Altair kit will go for, and we > > know that most people can't tell the difference between an assembled kit > > and an unassembled one. > > Or partially assembled one! I saw the photos and was kind of > wondering what > the story is. Perhaps I missed something in my quick glance, but I didn't > see any boards mentioned, and just some photos of what looked like an > assembled box, and a bunch of parts. I kind of enjoyed the "I've never powered it up" disclaimer at the bottom. Should be sort of obvious for an unassembled kit?

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Altair kits??

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

I notice from the pictures of the Altair 8800 kit on eBay that the front panel and power supply have been wired and assembled. The kit I found also has the front panel and power supply wired and assembled. QUESTION - to any of the folks out there who put these kits together originally... Is this the way you received them from MITS? With the front panel and/or the power supply pre-wired and assembled? Thanks, Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Altair kits??

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>QUESTION - to any of the folks out there who >put these kits together originally... >Is this the way you received them from MITS? >With the front panel and/or the power supply >pre-wired and assembled? No. At least not mine on the 'kit a month' plan. The way MITS was it wouldn't suprise me if they did ship out some partially built to fill demand for kit orders, but it wasn't in my case. More trivia: The last 'kit-a-month' installment of $60 got you the CPU chip. By that time generic 8080's were less than that so I just bought an NEC chip elsewhere to save a few $$. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

A new Altair record price

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

Mark Metzler wrote: >I knew you should have held onto all those Altairs longer, >Bob! Actually I have managed to hold on to more than I have sold, Mark. I had decided to stop listing my Altair stuff on eBay for now because there seemed to be a glut of Altair items going on there. But this is the first whole original 8800 that has been listed since earlier last year when the two were on simultaneously. It will be interesting to see if this selling price causes more to be listed. Bob > >At 10:29 PM 1/6/99 PST, you wrote: >>$6710.00 Wow! >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5282 >2778 >> >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> > >--- Mark Metzler > > VON NEUMANN MACHINES >Online Computer History Bookstore/Museum >http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/vnm.html > >______________________________________________________ >Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com >SPECIAL OFFER: 250 Web Site Templates, Only $29.95! - >http://orders.xoom.com/email > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Computer History

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

here is a pdp6 pricelist in .pdf format http://www.vortex.com/comphist.html Chris

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

A new Altair record price

by mark_metzler＠xoommail.com

I knew you should have held onto all those Altairs longer, Bob! At 10:29 PM 1/6/99 PST, you wrote: >$6710.00 Wow! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5282 2778 > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- Mark Metzler VON NEUMANN MACHINES Online Computer History Bookstore/Museum http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/vnm.html ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com SPECIAL OFFER: 250 Web Site Templates, Only $29.95! - http://orders.xoom.com/email

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

A new Altair record price

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

I know the Altair was historically significant, and it's very collectible, but give me a break! I paid less than that for my car. I'm hoping the fix was somehow in on this auction, in an attempt to drive collectible prices up - otherwise, I'll have to give up all hope of ever owning any pre-1980 computers that I don't already have. If this is truly where the market is going, most people on this list might be able to retire on the Riviera after all! :v) Mark. At 10:29 PM 1/6/99 PST, you wrote: >$6710.00 Wow! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=52822778 > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Year End Clearance

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

I have decided it is time to clean out some of the computer stuff. Following is a list of computers and components that are available. Basically, except for the last group of DEC uVax cards & where noted elsewhere, everything is free to those who come and pick up the items. I basically don't want to get involved with the shipping of any large items, such as the CPU boxes or monitors. If you just have to have some component that I can ship in a moderate sized box, then all I ask is a little something to cover my time and shipping. I live just south of Terre Haute, IN, USA. If your interested in anything, send me an email. I would like to apologize for the length of this list. I did not realize how much stuff there was 'til I put it in a list. I decided for now to hold off on the Intel/PC related stuff. Mike Thompson ---------------------------------------- Convergent Technologies Model CR-5100-A31 Some kind of Unix box Contains: 68000 CPU board with 64K of 8Kx8 and parallel port Memory expansion board with 2M of 256Kx1 20 channnel RS232 board with 20 9 pin D connectors Micropolis 1325 70mb MFM hard drive Also have a spare 10 channnel RS232 board with 10 9 pin D connectors I am told that this is a working machine and was being used as a print server. ---------------------------------------- Wang components The following are from a Wang machine, model is unknown PM007 - PC Color Emulator board, has 15 pin D connector labeled 'Input' and 9 pin D connector labeled 'Analog RGB'. Board measures 8x12. PM009 - Medium Resolution Color Graphics board, has 8 pin DIN connector labeled 'Analog RGB' & 6 pin modular connect labeled 'Local Keyboard' Board measures 8X12 Micropolis 1325 70mb MFM hard drive. Condition of these items is unknown. ---------------------------------------- Motorola Model VME/10 System Contains: 1 ea MVME400 board 1 ea MVME201 boards Micropolis 1304 43mb hard drive, may be bad. Also have a monitor, but no video cable. Believe the keyboard is around here somewhere. Also have the following loose VME bus cards: VME Module 01-W3471, circa 1987 contains: 68020, 68851, 4mb of 1Mx1; front panel has leds for Fail, Halt, Run, Scon, push switches for Abort & Reset, and a 25 pin D connector. Have 2 of these. MVME147SC-1. circa 1990 CPU with around 8mb of RAM MVME931-1 This is a wire wrap prototyping board The next card is for the VME bus but is labeled Jupiter Technologies. I suspect it came from a UGC box. It contains a 68000 and around 2mb of RAM, it is marked as being an 'IOP' card. The last 2 cards were custom made by a local company and are probably of no use to anybody. Listed here to more or less keep track. Condition of all this is unknown. ---------------------------------------- IBM Model 5182 Personal Computer Color Printer Parallel Interface, dot matrix 132 column This works, but needs a new ribbon ---------------------------------------- Hewlett Packard Model 2631G 132 column dot matrix printer This has a 24 pin connector similar to the 36 pin Centronics connector. Does anybody know the interface on this one? ---------------------------------------- Micropolis Model 1325 70mb hard drive This is a loose one, and condition is unknown ---------------------------------------- DEC MicroVax 2000 I have the case, boards and power supply. The RD54 was snatched up by a subscriber just recently. Also have a spare MS400 2mb board and this is unused still in original box. ---------------------------------------- DEC DS200 Terminal Server - 4ea DELNI - at least 6 ea ---------------------------------------- Apple Macintosh II I have 4 machines, 3 are working, one is dead. Of the working: 2 have 1 floppy drive, 1 has 2 floppy drives they all have 40mb hard drives. 2 have Viking video cards with a Viking Monoterm monitor (are a little dim) 1 has an Apple video card with a Apple color monitor Have keyboards and mice for all three. Have complete (I think) manuals and disks for each machine. One machine has Interleaf loaded on it. I have a couple spare video cards & an external 20mb drive. I have 1 set of Interleaf manuals and 2 sets of disks. I believe the loaded with version 6 of the OS. I would like to get a little something for these. I might be convinced to ship components, but do not want to ship anything big, especially the monitors. ---------------------------------------- IBM RT Model 135, Type 6150. It has a 5 1/4 floppy, and two hard drives (100MB & 300MB), plus the usual video and a network card. The monitor is a Model/Type 5081-19, 19" color with RGB inputs. I have a fairly complete set of manuals and disks for the machine. The machine was working and is loaded with AIX 2.x. I say was, as it was sitting in the garage when a tree was blown over and crashed through the garage roof almost exactly where the machine was. The only damage was from water, mostly running down through the monitor. The CPU had some stuff on top of it and I doubt that much if any water got into it. I have not tested it since then and the insurance company has settled on it. If you want to come pick it up, fine. I am willing to pull components out of this and ship them. I hate to see things like the network card go to waste. All I ask is a little something for my time and trouble. ---------------------------------------- DEC The following cards were pulled from uVax II's and all machines were working at the time they were removed from service. Since I am asking a little for any card, I will guarantee them in that I will replace (where possbile) or refund. If your interested in multiple cards, let me know, I can probably work out a deal. KA630-AA / M7606 - CPU Module, MicroVax II, 4 ea $15 MS630-BB / M7608 - 4 MB Memory Module, 1 ea $10 KDA50-Q / M7164 & M7165 - SDI Disk Interface, 1 set $20 DQ256 (Dilog) - SDI Interface, 1 ea $10 TSV05 / M7196 - Tape Controller, 1 ea $10 TQK70-SA / M7559 - TK70 Tape Controller, 1 ea $10 DELNA / M7513 - Expander Module, connects ext. RD50/RX50 to controller, 3 ea $5 TQK50 / M7546 - TK50 Tape Interface, 2 ea $10 DHV11 / M3104 - 8 Line Async Multiplexer (quad height card), 1 ea $10 DZQ11 / M3106 - 4 Line Async Multiplexer (dual height card), 2 ea $10 M9404 / M9505 - Cable Connector, 3 sets of cards plus some cables, $5 END OF LIST --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- ---------------

27 years, 3 months

4
5
0 0

T1200 Laptop network card - was Re: 53rd state was Re: Y2K

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 7 January 1999 12:30 Subject: 53rd state was Re: Y2K > Naw, you're not even close to being the 53rd state! We're going after >Puerto Rico right now, the ten Canadian provinces are next, then Mexico. >You guys are way down the list. It must be sad to realize that you follow >even Mexico! > > Sorry, couldn't resist! :-) There's a line there, ah what the heck. Sad is not the word, relieved perhaps! :^) I couldn't resist either. Mind you, looking at TV here, or driving around any medium sized city, and seeing the Kentucky Fried Chicken, McDonalds and Hungry Jacks (=Burger King) outlets, and seeing all the kids roaming around in those silly baggy shorts with their baseball caps on backwards, it's getting hard to tell the difference. At least we still speak real English, despite the school systems apparent inability to teach kids to write and spell in it......... Ahem, to get back on topic, I have a Circa 1989 Toshiba T1200 laptop that has a Puredata 8023 (assume Ethernet) card in the expansion slot. There is nothing for this on the Puredata website, and my email to their support on 30/12/98 has not been responded too (yet). The card has an etch that reads PDT8023 [R] [C] 1989 Pure Data Made in Canada 0060012002 The T in the ident suggests a special (Toshiba?) build. The card has a single BNC socket and a switch marked 0 and 1, which is probably a power on/off function. There are three jumpers marked E1 E2 and E3. E2 has a shorting bridge on it. There is a bar coded sticker on the component side. The sticker is damaged, looks like 002x1945 (digit marked by x is unreadable, possibly a 6 or an 8) Several of the chips on the board have a date and a hex number on a paper sticker on them. Listed below. March 1990 800020000 March 1991 800019100 March 1991 800019702 March 1991 800019801 March 1991 800019900 I'm after some Netware drivers for it. (This is an XT laptop) I've tried the NE1000 drivers to no avail. I'm assuming it uses the IRQ (3) that is reserved for the internal modem. Any help appreciated. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

FW: 11/73 available

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Found on Usenet. Anyone near the U. of Iowa want to talk to this guy? It sounds kind of beat up, but might make a good parts box. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:17:30 -0600, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: Brian Deitte <bdeitte(a)blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: Clueless questions about a for sale PDP 11/73 >>Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:17:30 -0600 >>Organization: The University of Iowa >>Lines: 18 >>Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.990106150728.112902A-100000(a)black.weeg.uiowa.edu> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: black.weeg.uiowa.edu >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>X-Sender: bdeitte(a)black.weeg.uiowa.edu >>Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!netnews.com!news-feed.fnsi.net!cyclone.i1.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.uiowa.edu!black.weeg.uiowa.edu!bdeitte >>Xref: news1.jps.net vmsnet.pdp-11:803 >> >>Hello. I've been given a PDP 11/73 that was going to be thrown away. >>I've searched for quite a few hours on the Web for resellers, and all I >>could find was agora and auction-it.net. Any advice on a price range or >>where to look for someone who wants one is appreciated. >> >>If you've read this far, I assume you're interested in some way, so here's >>some extra information: >>According to a a picture I saw somewhere, its a BA23 standing tower. >>I found the following cards: M3106(2), M8017AA, M7546, M7555. >>The front has a TK50 and a Micropolis "Disk Memory Unit" with a S/N >>7074231037. >>Some of pins on back are broken, and the power cord has been snipped, but >>supposedly it worked at its former residence, although I don't even know >>how to test it. >> >>Feel free to send by email if you feel this is irrelevant to this >>newsgroup. Thanks, Brian. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Help (SMS Q-Bus systems)

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> <snippity> Thanks Zane. Looks like I may get my first taste of rt-11. My boat's come in. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Message formats

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 7 January 1999 14:43 Subject: Re: Message formats >Again, how typically American! I'm starting to hate American's to the >point I'm looking for another country to move to, since I'm embarrased to >say that I'm an American myself. Anyone know any good countries that I can >move to, and not be embarassed to be associated with? Come on down (under). >The Internet is not an American only thing! No it isn't. I accept that the original concept and the early development work took place in the US. The growth of the net has made it a global phenomenon, though the spam is nearly all American in origin! > >I'd like to point out a few things, my reaction to a message that was about >%30 HTML caused this thread to spring into being. I'm using a e-mail >client that can handle it without any problem, I've also got a dedicated >384k line, so bandwidth isn't a problem for me Lucky boy. That sort of bandwidth is way out of reach of most people in this country. A typical home user would probably have a 28.8 or 33.6k modem, with a few 56k's thrown in. 56k doesn't always work well, heck I'm using a 56k USR modem, but it won't connect to my ISP faster than 33.6k, even though the ISP supports it. Phone line quality most likely. ISDN is available, but it's timed by the second, and frightfully expensive to install, so most ISP's won't allow a dial on demand, they will only do ISDN for a permanent connection. Change ISP's did I hear you say? There are only 2 here. We are in the country ~100 miles from Adelaide, plenty more there, but it's 50c a minute for a long distance call during the day, and it's not a lot different there Since a permanent 33.6k modem line (like this one) costs around $290 a month, and a commercial 64k ISDN permanent is around $1000 a month, you don't see a lot of users on it yet..... Oh yes, our local phone calls are not timed (yet - they keep threatening - mostly because of net users) but the backlash from consumers is keeping them on the back foot - for now. They are not, however, free, it's 30c a call, though a local call in Australia can cover a sizeable area depending what area code you are in. The 08 area code covers the entire state of SA, which is roughly 5 or 6 times the area of the UK. Local calls are roughly a 50 mile radius of the place you call from. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Help (SMS Q-Bus systems)

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> <snip> Thanks Zane... Being pdp experience deficient, I appreciate the info. I have a 11/93 that I haven't been able to get working yet... I'm looking forward to my first rt-11 experience. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Message formats

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Miles O'Neal <meo(a)netads.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 7 January 1999 14:08 Subject: Re: Message formats >Max Eskin said... >| >|TVs require licenses in the UK? What about if you buy a CRT and make your >|own? > >It's illegal, of course. > >Ifthey don't catch you, there's no license fee. > >If they catch you, you're sent to Australia. > >Talk about a win-win situation! For who? We quit taking POME years ago. We still get pom immigrants though......;^) Cheeers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

y2k stuff

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 05:02 PM 1/6/99 -0800, Sam wrote: >I've also been told by some credit card company call center reps that they >couldn't do something or other for me because the "computer wouldn't let >them". Don't you know a brush-off when you hear it? Employees LOVE to blame things on the computer! Joe

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Barry A. Watzman <Watzman(a)ibm.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 6 January 1999 14:42 Subject: Y2K >The problem arises simply because people (programmers included) normally write dates in the format >"mm/dd/yy", as in 12/31/99. Not just in computer programs, but in normal, day-to-day lives. It's that simple, >and that is all that there is to it. Only if you live in America. Much of the world (like here, or the UK, New Zealand etc) use dd/mm/yy in their "normal, day-to-day lives." I have personally had numerous headaches with software written (mostly) in the USA where this unwarranted assumption on date useage is hard coded into the damn software. Accounting packages are prime offenders. So is a well known DOS based Fax program. This usually results in users moving to a package that does not make silly assumptions about date useage outside America. I know there are 250+ million of you, but we're not the 53rd state. (Yet anyway) We "ain't gonna" change the way WE do things here. It would make our lives a lot easier if such things were an option, some authors get it right, and allow it to be a config option, sadly, lots don't. Oh, and our financial year is from 1 July to 30 June, not 1 January to 31 December. Had that trouble as well. Grrrr. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

y2k stuff

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/6/99 8:26:02 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rigdonj(a)intellistar.net writes: > >I've also been told by some credit card company call center reps that they > >couldn't do something or other for me because the "computer wouldn't let > >them". > > Don't you know a brush-off when you hear it? Employees LOVE to blame > things on the computer! it's not a brush off, really. in my helpdesk job, computer applications we use wont do certain things unless required info is present or in right format. sure, there are stupid operators, but the computer sometimes is at fault too.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Help

by dogas＠leading.net

Hi folks, I have a chance to pick up some SMS Q-bus systems that were being used as a security entry system. I dont know anything about them and assume (because of the Q-bus moniker) these to be uPDP equivilents. The apparently two computers are in a 19' rack system. I haven't and won't see them until Saturday so that's all the info so far... Please help, anybody know these systems? Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Message formats

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 7 January 1999 13:13 Subject: Re: Message formats >The license for a colour TV is something like 4 times the cost of one >for a black and white TV. And the extra 'entertainment' might not be worth >that much. They STILL do that? Heck, we tossed it out in the early 70's. The compliance rate was very low, and the Radio Inspectors got so tired of the door to door checking and subsequent abuse (sometimes physical - some Aussies are less than polite when dealing with bureaucratic bull....) that they were glad to see the government call it a day. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OT, but info needed: RAM uprade

by roblwill＠usaor.net

-----Original Message----- From: David Wollmann <dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 2:49 PM Subject: Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade >On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > >When IBM ELS were designing the original 5150, 16-bit cards would have driven >the cost out of their US$4,000.00 retail target range, so they went with the >crippled 8088. A decision that, in hindsight, makes about as much sense as >including a cassette drive and (what was it???) 16K RAM on the first model. > > The tape drive was actually a useful idea, which should have been continued all the way throughout the PS/2 line. It allowed whoever was using the computer to actually make use of the ROM BASIC. The floppies aren't available in ROM BASIC, and once a program is typed in, there's no way to save it. The cassette drive worked in the same way that the cassette drive in TRS-80's did. It acted as the storage device in ROM BASIC. In fact, I don't even think the PC came with a cable to connect it to a tape deck. You had to run down to RadioShack and pick up a TRS-80 cassette cable. I think I actually have an entire 60-minute tape full of PC-BASIC programs (somewhere). I think one of the not-so-smart things that IBM did was to remove the cassette interface and to keep the now-useless ROM-BASIC in there. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

9
16
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb