- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by manney＠lrbcg.com

A Customer needs a Mac IIsi monitor. Please email you offering to manney(a)lrbcg.com or call (419) 663-0700 (Work) 9-5, EST or (419) 663-3371 (Home) Thank you.

27 years, 3 months

1
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IBM type 4836?

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

A friend asked me about what he says is an IBM unit that is running Windows 3.1 and he says it says a type 4836. That number isn't clciking with me, anyone have any ideas of what this is, or is he possibly reading a tag from an add-on/in card? I saw a reference in IBM Finland to a 4836 multiplatform emulation card but nothing else.

27 years, 3 months

2
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IBM type 4836?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/13/99 11:30:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, rhblake(a)bigfoot.com writes about the 4846 machine type: << The guy is supposed to bring the main unit in today at work and I can see what this thing is up close. I have a feeling he's misread it as his physical description sounds a lot like a PC or XT. >> probably so. then again, i spoke with more than one induhvidual who has a 3278 terminal or similar thinking they actually got a working computer to run windows. david

27 years, 3 months

1
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OFF TOPIC Radio comments...

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 11:11 AM 1/8/99 -0500, Bill wrote: >OT followup follows... >WEAF became WNBC, the flagship of the now defunct NBC radio network. >The network was sold of by General Electric ( -- who was stopped from >buying RCA in the '30's by anti-trust issues -- ) to Westwood One >which has now been partnering with Westinghouse (now the owner of CBS). > Wasn't RCA started as some sort of "holding" company, that didn't manufacture products of their own? They first sold items made by (you guessed it) General Electric and Westinghouse. Later they acquired Cunningham who were also making vacuum tubes/valves and included them in the name "radiotrons" for them. -Dave

27 years, 3 months

6
7
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Rescue needed: Prime hardware w/software!

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Group, I've been looking to get involved in the rescue of a mini and it look like this one could be close to home (<100 miles).

27 years, 3 months

1
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Seriously *bad* ebay auction...

by paulk＠microsoft.com

> This guy is looking to sell his TRS-80 Model 1 for a minimum bid of $300! > :-/ And if you hurry, you can pop on over to Yahoo auctions and pick up an Apple //e with, quote, "lots of software, accesesories, etc". Only a mere $600. And, hey, no bids yet!! http://auctions.yahoo.com/auction/2190993. Have a ball. > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch(a)30below.com Hardee har, Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 3 months

3
3
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Tandy 600 acting screwy

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I've got an old Tadny 600 laptop that I used to use for quick note-taking. I "retired" it about a year ago when the battery would no longer run the floppy and I had been given a Tandy 1400HD. Since then, the hard drive controller in the 1400 has "lost the magic smoke", and I'd like to get the 600 running again. I replaced the NICd cells, charged them overnight, and pressed the power switch. What do I get? Garbage filling the screen. I do the 5-finger salute cold boot. Here's what I get: -------- Uncoop System Load: Disk Error. Retry (Y/N)? _ -------- Disk error? from what I remember, this thing booted from ROM, and I don't have any sort of system disk. I hit n. It turns off. Great. I press power again, get two beeps, and this in the center of the display: -------- Unable to restart, critical system data damaged. Hit any key to reinitialize system. -------- Wonderful - system data damaged- doesn't sound good. I might as well hit any key - can't get any worse. I hit "enter". To my surprise, I get the old, familiar Microsoft Works 1.20 screen. I use the arrow keys to move the cursor over "WORD", and hit enter. At the bottom of the screen, it says: RUN application: WORD That's where it's been sitting for 5 hours, because I can't turn it off, either. I also noticed that the "free memory" said that there were 976560 bytes free. A year ago, there was only 32k. Anyone have any suggestions? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

6
6
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Prime Hardware Doc.

by jpl15＠netcom.com

So..... what little space remained in my living room is now occupied with to big racks of Prime system. Its got 1 CPU, 48M of RAM, 32 ports, a Seagate Sabre, A Century 300M, a CDC 9766 top-loader, and a Kenndy 9100. I have many reels of tape, and about three linear feet of operating documentation. Maybe this weekend I can cable it up and light the fires. But since I am mostly a DEC collector, I have no idea where to start looking for Engineering and Maintenance docs on this machine, and I have not had time (yet) to sift thru the Web for clews. If there is, by chance, someone on this LIst who has leads to Prime engineering printsets, I would be mightily pleased to communicate with you. From spending the last few nights reading the OS stuff... I am impressed by the simplicity of the user interfaces and the operator environment... just the thing for a CompuDummy like me. Thanks in advance... pix of the Device will be loaded up to my neglected webpage this weekend (honest!). www.lightsound.org Cheerz John

27 years, 3 months

1
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Rescue needed: Prime hardware w/software!

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Forwarded from a newsgroup posting - please reply to original poster. -jim --- Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime From: Brian Phillips <bphillip(a)venus.treco.net> Subject: Two Primes must go Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:02:39 -0500 This is my second posting. I posted this information a few weeks/months ago but now the machine is downed and waiting for pickup. System #1 =================== Hardware: =================== 1 6650 2 770MB disks 1 820MB disk 1 1.3GB disk (SCSI) 3 LACs (ICS3, 64 port capacity each) 192 CLACS (serial, 9-pin male) 2 URC dataproducts printer interfaces 1 SCSI-II controller 1 10GB 8mm Helical tape . . . . . . . . . (MAYBE) 1 Telex Tri-density 9-track tape 1 LHC (LAN Host Controller (TCP/IP)) 1 PT250 console terminal Software: =================== Primos r23.2 Information v8.2-23.2.0 TCP/IP v2.4r22 supports telnet, ftp, smtp (and Primenet,RJE,EMACS,PNX,Talk to name a few) System #2 =================== Hardware: =================== 1 2450 1 LAC (ICS3) 24 CLACS (serial, 9-pin male) 1 120MB disk 1 256MB disk 1 60MB cartridge tape Software: =================== Primos r22 (?) Information v8 (?) Primenet Any takers? Brian Phillips Treasure Coast Internet, Inc. (http://www.treco.net) 759 S. Federal Hwy. Suite 316, Stuart, FL 34994 (561)286.6998 FAX: (561)286.7089 Modem: (561)286.2880 Ft Pierce 879.6177 Ft Pierce Modem: (561)879.9939 ---

27 years, 3 months

1
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Computers for Kids

by rkneusel＠post.its.mcw.edu

>> For programming, I would recommend BASIC, TO START WITH, followed by an >> introduction to C and assembly as soon as basic principles are >>understood. > >I don't see anything wrong with BASIC as a useable language for kids. I >don't know why people are so down on it. Ok, so it doesn't have >functions, and no, I wouldn't try to build a career out of it. I don't >think throwing C and assembler at a kid "as soon as the basic principles >are understood" would be necessarily productive. Let them have BASIC >until its apparent they've outgrown it, then let them explore other >options (but please keep them away from COBOL and Pascal :) > >Sellam Alternate e-mail:dastar@siconic.com Why not Forth? Simple, interactive and gives immediate feedback. It also has "high level" constructs, no GOTO, but is "low level" at the same time. My six year old son loves it. The RPN style didn't bother him a bit (why would it when he knew of nothing else?) Ron Kneusel rkneusel(a)mcw.edu

27 years, 3 months

1
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classic computer stuff in Scientific American

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

Alex Knight[SMTP:aknight@mindspring.com] reports: >One of my more interesting acquisitions along the way of looking >for early-model calculators has been a nearly-complete set of >Scientific American magazines from 1965-1978. In the 1960's Good collection. All that Martin Gardner and Dr. Matrix, Conway's 'Life'...waaaaa So do you have the Sept. '74 issue in which the Amateur Scientist, IIRC, taught us how to breadboard 74xx logic gates - so then one could build a machine to solve 'truth tables' as in Irving Copi's "Symbolic Logic"? What fun they were. Karnaugh maps were just ahead. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 3 months

1
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Computers for children

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 10:00 PM 1/12/99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Gee, I wish I was your daughter. My dad's idea of cirriculum was: > Raking Leaves Rake > Mowing Lawns Lawnmower [...] >I had to learn everything else on my own :) No personal aspersion on Chuck's plan, but in both Sam's dad and many other parents I've seen, the curriculum (in general, not just computer-centric) seems to be driven by the parent's interests and perhaps the child's own natural interests are forgotten. My three-year-old likes to doodle on my Pilot and PC, but something inside me wants to let him be a kid for a while, as opposed to pushing him to become the latest "youngest NT certified engineer." When I furnished him with an old Mac SE with a kid-paint program, he enjoyed it, but after a while he removed the mouse and used it to lasso his fire truck until the magic smoke left the mouse. Yes, there's a 100bT port in his bedroom, and a T-1 to the house, but I haven't told him about that yet. It's scary how the words "e-mail" and "dot com" worked there way into his vocabulary, though. I flinch when I see how computers are used in schools. I help the local school board with some technological issues, and recently took a tour of the new network wiring at the high school. They've got fiber to the closets, DS-3 feeding the place, video distribution, it goes on and on. "What's it going to be used for," I asked the director. "Well, it might be ten years before we get the budget to refurbish, so we thought we'd ask for as much as possible, and we'll let the teachers figure out how to use it." Meanwhile, the teacher's union is requesting funding for substitutes so that teachers can take mornings and afternoons away from their classrooms in order to attend seminars to learn how to use the marginal Win95 machines they have now. Meaning, of course, that they don't know how to use what was installed from the last round of funding. The only use of the Net I saw on the tour was five kids in the library, surfing sites about their favorite bands. Surprisingly, the "porn filter" consisted of keeping the monitors in sight of the librarian's desk. Of course, we all know the Web is peer-reviewed and scholastically approved, so any material you find there is OK to cut-and-paste into a book report. - John

27 years, 3 months

1
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No subject

by dhansen＠zebra.net

27 years, 3 months

1
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RT-11 Help

by mbg＠world.std.com

"Mike" <dogas(a)leading.net> wrote: >an MSCP disk ??? This was a cardkey application for a rather large site >so mayhap the app did this... The problem is that we need to know a little more of the system configuration first... do you know exactly what the system has? If you know it has MSCP disks, then we need to know how they have the partitions setup. >>What you may want to suggest to him is to >> >> 1) Delete all sensitive files from all disk partitions > >how? DELETE myfile?? Yep... standard DCL (Digital Command Language), not something obscure like 'rm' (Sorry... couldn't resist :-) >>Not counting the documentation which can be purchased for it... > >really? where? sign me up. ;) As someone else has already mentioned, a Doc set is something like US$1300+... I doubt hobbyists will run out and buy it... that's why the best you can probably hope for is someone who can let you 1) borrow, 2) have, or 3) copy select pages/manuals of their doc set. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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NorthStar Dimension

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Was anyone aware that in 1984 North Star Computers introduced the North Star Dimension, a DOS-compatible "workstation"? Seems to have been a typical IBM PC XT clone. North Star's last foray into computers before they folded altogether no doubt. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98]

27 years, 3 months

1
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Seriously *bad* ebay auction...

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Not in the same league, but I noted to the seller of an Altair 8800b currently on eBay that, despite the item description's statement to the contrary, $3000 was NOT a low starting price. He begged to differ, stating that these things are going for over $6000 now. A -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Davis <kbd(a)ndx.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 6:41 PM Subject: RE: Seriously *bad* ebay auction... Hey, don't forget that $100 Atari Belt buckle (only one at that price!!!) :-)

27 years, 3 months

1
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FW: Fellow needs help using a paper tape reader

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Can someone please get in touch with this guy? He asks a most interesting question. Thanks! Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: "Bill Mohler" <bill(a)cs.oberlin.edu> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.misc Subject: Help: Paper tape reader to PC Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:51:55 -0500 Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Lines: 11 Message-ID: <77g9a4$ie4(a)news.cc.oberlin.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pmohler.physics.oberlin.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.cc.oberlin.edu!usenet Xref: news1.jps.net sci.electronics.misc:7212 Greetings, Any advice on how to attach a paper tape reader to an IBM compatible computer? How about making the PC emulate a tape reader? Sounds crazy, but we run some software from paper tape...would be easier if it were on disk. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Bulbs in parallel

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:31 PM 1/11/99 -0600, you wrote: >> > Or an entire digital computer out of ropes and pulleys? >> >Gag? Mechanical computers are serious stuff, Hans. Like Danny Hillis' >tinker-toy tic-tic-toe machine: See also: http://moose.spesh.com/lego/ http://weirdrichard.com/machine.htm There was another one, but I can't seem to find the page now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
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y2k stuff

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 12.01.1999 15:06:43, schreiben Sie: << I've come across enough machines that use 6-bit characters internally.... 6 Bit ? thats new - I never have seen a 6 Bit byte computer - I know 6 Bit only from some serial line encodings. >> 6 bit characters were quite the standard BEFORE /360 days, say for CDC 6600, CDC 7600 (the most powerful computers from mid-60s until the appearance of the CRAY-1 machines, forerunners of the Cyber 170 series), or IBM 7030, IBM 7090, IBM 7094 say, back in the '60s. They were not called bytes, and could not be addressed directly; there were 36 bit or 60 bit words, and shift / logical instructions used for character manipulation. In fact this is probably the origin for the six character namelength limit in FORTRAN IV : 6 chars x 6 bits = 36 bit word. John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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What's a VAX 6000/300 ?

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

My guess is that it isn't "classic" yet, but there is a nice example of one at Berman for _next week's_ auction. (unless they are saving it and the tape drive for someone) --Chuck

27 years, 3 months

2
2
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computers for children

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I just can't wait till mine grow up too ;) >My son (6) fell in love with the Kaypro II as soon as he saw a picture of it >on the web, so I've promised him I'd get one.... not bad for the son of a >"Microserf". (grrr.) > >- Joe > >

27 years, 3 months

1
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Computers for children

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I remember that *My* first computer was a 286-16 with 4 MB RAM, DOS 3.3, a 1/2 x CD-ROM and a 360k floppy. The keyboard was missing a few keys, the case (XT) had gotten rusty from sitting in a damp basement, and I had found the EGA monitor in the garbage (I had to replace the power cord). It didn't have a mouse, and when I finally was given an old mouse, I found out that neither serial port worked. I eventually bought a serial card for $1, and a copy of Windows 3.0 for $10 (on CD, in 1992). It was the first program that I ever had on CD. It took 5 hours to install. The printer was a Tandy DWP ][ that I was given by someone who got rid of their TRS-80. Instead of buying a cable for it, I ripped the D-connector out of the fried serial board and made my own cable. I used Windows Terminal to connect to a local BBS with a 2400 manual-dial Racal-Vadic modem that I found a Salvation Army for $3. The computer was running up until two years ago, when the HD crashed (heads?) and a cloud of tan/orange smoke billowed from the front of it. I pulled the serial card, CD-ROM controller and video card. I gave the monitor and vid card to a cousin that was building a computer, the case/MB/floppy/HD to a computer recycler (since out of business), and the CD-ROM is still chugging away on my 5170. I think that entire system cost me about $20. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 2:35 PM Subject: Computers for children >This'll probably offend many. > >I think that an 8 year old would be best off with a machine with CD-ROM >capability. And a good size stack of reference disks, including >Encyclopedia Brittanica, atlases, and several collections of literature. > >There should also be WWW access, preferably with at least minimal >graphics capability. > >If you really want to splurge, a cheap color inkjet printer. > >For programming, I would recommend BASIC, TO START WITH, followed by an >introduction to C and assembly as soon as basic principles are understood. > > >In the PC world, that would call for 386SX with VGA video, and DOS 3.10 >or above. (preferably 6.2x) I would also recommend Windoze Notepad and >Windoze Write for word processing. > >Once the kid has gotten thoroughly into it, THEN maybe a birthday present >of a set of Linux disks? > > >How much more than a C64 would a generic 386 AT cost? Do you need some >of us to contribute some parts? > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Computers for children

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Apparently you have not tried Visual Basic... How is that as easy as ROM BASIC? You turn the computer, and Visual Basic pops up immediately? I've yet to see such a computer (and if I do, I'll bash it to pieces with an axe, but that's another story)!. > At what level are you talking? I have not seen any sofware for kids (like > the knowledge adventure or humongous entertainment series) that would run on > Linux. It is hard to get a kid used to play with windows for 6 years and > tell him that it is crap and the one where you have to type long commands is > a lot better. We're talking about teaching _about_ computers, not teaching _with_ computers. Granted, Alvin and the Chipmunks software won't run on Linux (usually), and M$ Actimates won't work with it either...(echo "Hello, World!" > /dev/barney, anyone?) but those things won't help someone who wants to learn how a computer works.

27 years, 3 months

1
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RT-11 Help

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com> >I believe that Mentec sells a full set of DOCS (about 3' in the >13 binders) for about $ US 1300. You can also buy the V5.7 >H-kit for about $ US 1600, or it was the last time I was *trying to stuff eyes back in sockets from whence they sprung* tell me this is a fluke of international formatting. 130k pennies??? There go the eyes again... >) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Computer Collecting Books [WAS: Dr. Dobb's article]

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

At 04:24 PM 1/12/99 -0800, you wrote: >There is also Haddock's book of a similar name. Unfortunately, my copy has >gone missing. It's around somewhere, but Rachel has been cleaning up my >room, and I'm lucky to be able to find a clean shirt, let alone something >important like a classic computer book. 8^) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Haddock's book is A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators, subtitled A Historical, Rarity, and Value Guide, by Dr. Thomas F. Haddock, Books Americana, Florence, Alabama, 1993. ISBN 0-89689-098-8. I found it useful as a reference, but dated; it doesn't include many machines after the Amiga 1000, and the prices are way out of date. Also, the information about many machines is incomplete (e.g. no production estimates, original list prices, details). The book also has a lot of material on 70s vintage hobbyist machines and peripherals (e.g. Altair, IMSAI, many more obscure others) that are largely unobtainable where I live. Still, fun to browse through, and one of the few references available for our hobby. Mark.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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micro PDP-11 "Fatal RSTS/E system initialization error!"

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Disk is being rebuilt - wait... Sounds like the system was powered off without having run the $SHUTUP program to shutdown the system. >DU0 error UDASA P.OPCD P.STS P.BCNT P.BUFF P.BUF2 > P.LBN > 000000 000242 020006 000000 044000 000000 > 000001 > >Unrecoverable disk error on DU0 > >PC=121232 PS=030341 OV=000022 M5=001600 M6=003242 SP=041274 >R0=000000 R1=077777 R2=042125 R3=172150 R4=041410 R5=140026 > >Fatal RSTS/E system initialization error! A disk block has gone bad. Either the rebuild process was unable to read a block or unable to write one. Either way, the on-disk structure may be corrupted (someone more RSTS-saavy can explain more). The bad block is block 1 -- the home block... not good. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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What the hell is this!? IBM test equipment

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went computer scrounging today and found a brief case style tool box with some kind on IBM tester in it. I have so idea what it is but it has an 8" floppy disk drive in it! I got the floppy disk too. It has a NICE handset with a 4 line LED display and a full keyboard attached by a cable. There's also a lot of strange looking connectors and adapters with it. The main box has an "IPL" button and three connectors labeled "PIO", "S LOOP" and "R LOOP". The quick reference chart only calls it a "MD". There's a tag on it that says "TYPE 910x 002". Anyone know what it is and what it's for? Joe

27 years, 3 months

1
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Dr. Dobb's article

by bill＠chipware.com

If you haven't seen it yet, the February Dr. Dobb's has a 3/4 page blurb about computer collecting and Kevin Stumpf's _Guide_to_Collecting_Computers_and_Computer_Collectibles_ Does said author subscribe to this list? Has anyone seen the book for sale and/or bought/read it? Bill Sudbrink

27 years, 3 months

4
3
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RT-11 Help

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> >possible, however, for a user application to make use of the system >library routines which allow full access to an MSCP disk -- in which >case doing the squeeze won't help. an MSCP disk ??? This was a cardkey application for a rather large site so mayhap the app did this... >What you may want to suggest to him is to > > 1) Delete all sensitive files from all disk partitions how? DELETE myfile?? > 2) Squeeze all disk partitions. > 3) backup all disk partitions (on a file, not device, basis) > 4) FORMAT all disk partitions (RT-11 Format doesn't really > do a low-level format except for specific devices, and > MSCP disks are not one that it will do -- with the > exception of RX33 diskettes) > 5) Restore the backed-up files to all partitions. > 6) Release the hardware to you... :-) > >>Where can I find a good source of RT-11 info? > >Not counting the documentation which can be purchased for it... really? where? sign me up. ;) Thanks Megan - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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computers for children

by joe＠barrera.org

>My daughter (4) and my son (2) are both used to play with the pentium running >Winblows. If I show them a game on a c64 or Apple ][ or any other machine >for that matter they look at me weird and ask if they can play with the >pentium since I'm not using it... My son (6) fell in love with the Kaypro II as soon as he saw a picture of it on the web, so I've promised him I'd get one.... not bad for the son of a "Microserf". (grrr.) - Joe

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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computers for children

by fauradon＠pclink.com

One of the main problem in getting a kid interested in one machine is not really at the level of what they can do with it but more IMHO to what machine they are used to play with. My daughter (4) and my son (2) are both used to play with thepentium running Winblows. If I show them a game on a c64 or Apple ][ or any other machine for that matter they look at me weird and ask if they can play with the pentium since I'm not using it... I belive that if a kid is interested in programming (mine are not yet:( it is better to let them choose what machine they are attracted to. I don't know yet whether any of mine will have any interest in old machines but for the time being I'm just happy that they show any interest at all in one of them. What I'm trying to do is show them as much as I can (or as much as they can take) about other machines. I'll let them choose what they want later if they keep the interest. I can see ten years from now trying to tell my son that the C64 had an 8X1 byte for sprites and having him replying ok but how do you do hollographic simulation? Of course skill learned from old machines are valuable to understand what's going on inside of the machine but the trend today is to make abstraction of all those _annoying_ facts and use the proper library or API. (I work with Winblows programmers who have no clue how a computer operate) So I say let the kid choose. Francois.

27 years, 3 months

1
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RT-11 Help

by dogas＠leading.net

Finally.... Jacksonville pays off.... Do you know who many times I've seen computer x available in y, for pickup only, where y does not equal Jacksonville. I've got two SMS 1000s comming this weekend, a model 50 and 40, and two expansion boxes (41's ???) full of serial io running RT-11 for a defunct cardkey system. I dont know RT-11 (yet.) and am looking forward to the experience. But before that happens the seller wants to purge some sensitive employee files on the system. Can someone tell me how to tell him to 1) move through the directory structure, and 2) how to delete specific files ( some that span partitions 0 - du4 according to him ), and... Where can I find a good source of RT-11 info? Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

4
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What is this: Tektronix 4129 and 4115B

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went to my favorite scrap place today and they had a Tektronix 4115B and a 4129 that about ready to be recycled. Anyone know what the specs on these are? They're both large desk size chassis and and huge monitors on top. Both use 8" floppy disks. Are these somthing that needs to be saved? Joe

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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MS-DOS FAT file system ripped off? (from WHOM?)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/12/99 7:14:45 PM EST, spc(a)armigeron.com writes: << What's the fallacy in putting the directory in the center of a disk? Seems to me it would cut down on average the seek time. -spc (The elevator algorithm favors the center of the disk in fact) >> Well, that's how os2's HPFS puts the directory. i think it would cut down on seek time since there wouldnt be as much movement just moving to the outer/inner tracks.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Dr. Dobb's article

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:15 PM 1/12/99 -0600, you wrote: >laugh, you'll cry, get the book. (OK, it's a book about computer >collecting, the only one I know of, and it includes anecdotes from a few There is also Haddock's book of a similar name. Unfortunately, my copy has gone missing. It's around somewhere, but Rachel has been cleaning up my room, and I'm lucky to be able to find a clean shirt, let alone something important like a classic computer book. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Original 128K Mac available

by paulk＠microsoft.com

> I would be interested to find out if the Apple HD20 would work with a 128k > that had been upgraded to 512k. It does. I was confused when I heard about people complaining that an HD20 wouldn't work with their 128, because it works fine with mine. Then I realized that mine was upgraded to 512k. I believe that there's not enough room in a stock 128 for the HD20 init, plus the buffers it needs, plus the rest of the operating system, plus user apps. > r. r e d @ b e a r s . o r g Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Old ASCII (was: Re: Stupid CP/M question)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Philip.Belben(a)PowerTech.co.uk wrote about the ASCII code that was originally > a leftward-pointing arrow, but was later redefined as underscore: > >> PET has a left arrow for that code as well. Sensible, since underscore is >> available elswhere in the character set (shift-$ IIRC) but I never knew it >> used to be standard ASCII. > > Um, no. ASCII doesn't define any shift-$ character. In fact, ASCII doesn't > define any shift characters at all. It makes no association between > characters and keystrokes. All it defines is the codes for the characters, > and the functions of some of the control characters. Note that even in > the case of control characters, it does NOT define them as being generated > by a control key together with some other key. So, for instance, there is > no proper ASCII character designated "Control-C". This style of usage is > an artifact of bit-paired keyboards, as was discussed here last week. > > ASCII originally did not have an underscore character. Since the 1968 > revision, it has an underscore but no leftward-pointing arrow. > > In any case, the Commodore PET did not use ASCII, although it used an > extended character set that was derived from ASCII. So perhaps you are > thinking of one of the Commodore line-drawing characters. Despite which fact, in PET BASIC the CODE function is replaced by the ASC function. But I think you missed my point. Was I really that unclear? Let me rephrase: The decision to use left arrow for that code was sensible because the PETSCII character set has underscore elsewhere (and I still maintain it is at shift-$ on the PET keyboard. FWIW it is indeed one of the Commodore line drawing characters, but I used it as an underscore in many text-based PET applications when I programmed the machines regularly, and I still use it as underscore in PETSCII-ASCII translation), and it would therefore be redundant to include another underscore character in the character set. If you ever get the chance, have a look at the layout of a PET chicklet keyboard. It is quite clever. PETSCII, unlike ASCII, _does_ make connections between codes for shifted keys and those for unshifted keys - on the original PET keyboard the PETSCII code difference was always 128 (the screen code difference was always 64 BTW). And yet they managed the following things: Characters with horizontal lines of pixels in all eight positions followed a simple route down and up two adjacent columns of keys, yet they managed to get bottom (shift-$), middle (shift-@) and top (sorry, can't remember. Shift-# ?) onto punctuation keys so they would be available in lower case mode. Similarly with the vertical lines in all eight pixel positions. For those pedants who say there is no middle with an 8*8 dot matrix, it was the one that lined up with the small corners and tees (shifted numbers). Large corners (two outer edges) were in a little block on shifted O, P, L and colon (or possibly semicolon). Shifted O, P and L were of course unavailable in lower case mode; shift-: became a square root sign. And so on. So although PETSCII is not ASCII, don't knock it. It worked well. Philip. PS Why is it that, whenever someone misunderstands what I say, they assume I'm wrong, and they're right. And if their interpretation of what I say is obviously silly, they berate me for saying something obviously silly, rather than stopping and thinking, Can he really have meant that? Nothing personal, I hasten to add. It happens all the time. P.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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y2k stuff

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

What boggles the mind is that this is a problem at all. It seems hard to believe (in retrospect) that people really did deliberately build software with only 2 digit years. I know it saved a few bytes, and yes, I remember when a byte of memory was a significant amount, but still. How did standard programming practice come to be so short sighted as to assume that software infrastructure would be thrown out and replaced on a regular basis? -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

11
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5.25" disks

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

I picked up an auction lot today and it contained, among other things, some 5.25" disks that are hand labelled as "1.2MB Test Media". I'm wondering if they are calibration disks for 5.25" drives. Realizing they are probably so RARE that to L@@K at them should cost $20 :-) Since I've got a couple I'd like to send one to anyone who feels confident they can tell me what they are (Tony?) Another thing this lot had in it was the 1996 MSDN developers network subscription CD binder. This basically has like all the "big" software microsoft made including copies of Win95, WinNT 3.5 and WinNT 4.0 Beta. Plus various SDKs, international versions and docs. It occurred to me that to a developer this "trash" is going to be gold to a collector in 20 years who is trying to demonstrate or renovate a "pre-millenium personal computer." So it seems to be out there and it is fairly low volume (less than 1 cubic foot) and can be had inexpensively. May I suggest we do future collectors a favor (as those who saved OS/8 did for me) and take some of this "junk" and store it somewhere safe for future generations... --Chuck

27 years, 3 months

4
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Computers for children

by meo＠netads.com

Fred Cisin said... | |This'll probably offend many. Maybe. I simply disagree - to an extent. |I think that an 8 year old would be best off with a machine with CD-ROM |capability. And a good size stack of reference disks, including |Encyclopedia Brittanica, atlases, and several collections of literature. What has that got to do with learning BASIC, or graphics? The nice thing about a Commodore, CompuColor, Mac II, etc, is the instant feedback. I realize the WWW can provide this (so long as you have a clear T3 path between systems 8^), but that's not the same. With a graphical basic, you create, you play. It's more like Legos(tm) or Tinker Toys (tm) than using a computer application. I agree that what you propose is a good thing for a kid to have, but it's a completely different topic - using the computer as a general purpose learning tool, or playing on a computer. What we were talking about was playing *with* a computer. |For programming, I would recommend BASIC, TO START WITH, followed by an |introduction to C and assembly as soon as basic principles are understood. I've yet to see a BASIC that runs on top of an OS that's as easy to get into and provides direct feedback as well as a graphical BASIC DOS. |Once the kid has gotten thoroughly into it, THEN maybe a birthday present |of a set of Linux disks? Hah. My kids started on Linux, at about 8 and 10. Yeah, I intend to (God help me) get a Win or Mac system soon, but only because there are too many things not yet available on Linux. But Linux is just fine as a newbie OS for a kid. -Miles

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Original 128K Mac available

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Ed Preble <epreble(a)rt66.com> has a Mac 128 (upgraded to 512K) available to any interested party. It comes with a travel case. Any interested parties please contact him directly. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98]

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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supers

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 13 January 1999 4:27 Subject: Re: supers >On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Geoff Roberts wrote: > >> >Whether participating in distributed crypto challenges (like RC5) >> >qualifies as "unsavory" is yet to be determined. >> >> Nah. I suppose some might think it "unsporting", but it's just >> jealousy...:^) > >I don't think that's unsporting at all. With the latest and greatest >Pentium, all you have to do is plug a stupid little mini-tower into a wall >outlet. Victor and his gang will have to haul this huge behemoth home, >then figure out how to get the right power to it, then figure out how to >get the right cooling into it, then *pay* for that power and cooling to >run it, etc. > >If anyone is audacious enough to take on such a challenge then they >deserve the advantage :) I'm on your side.... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

1
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What's a VAX 6000/300 ?

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)freegate.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 13 January 1999 5:30 Subject: What's a VAX 6000/300 ? > >My guess is that it isn't "classic" yet, but there is a nice example of one >at Berman for _next week's_ auction. (unless they are saving it and the >tape drive for someone) It's from around 89-91 era, so it might be. I have a couple. One built in 89, (A Classic!) 1 in 90. It's a medium sized Vax, about the size of a very big fridge. The 300 series cpu's were good for about 3.8 VUPS (1 VUPS ~ 1MIPS). The middle digit of the 300 indicates the number of cpus in the system. Depending on individual machine config, this could be anything from 1-4.. The internal tape drive would be a TK70, a 280mb version of a TK50. They will also read TK50 tapes but not write to them. A typical 6000-310 would probably have 64Mb of RAM, and an ethernet adapter, plus it may or may not have either a KDB50 SDI Disk/Tape controller and/or KLESI-B controller for TU81+ tape drive. It could also have instead of a disk controller a CI bus adapter to allow it to use HSC mounted disk/tape drives in a VAXCluster configuration. Apart from the size and weight, if you have the room, they are a good, reliable machine. VMS or Ultrix only. NetBSD not supported (No XMI Bus support). They are 3 phase, but it's fairly easy to convert to single phase, and they only consume around 500w. My 6000-220 (slightly slower, but a 2 cpu version) draws about 2A @240vac from a domestic power outlet. FWIW, it can be moved by hand, though it takes about 6 guys, weighs about 200Kg, about 30 of which is a 3 phase autotransformer in the bottom. (First thing I get rid of!) They need a VTxxx terminal as a console. One of these was my first Vax, so I guess I'm sort of an enthusiast. Oh yeah, they are just about unkillable, dropping one from a great height will distort the cabinet somewhat, but it will probably not stop it working. Hope this helps. Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Cosmic Rays, other Plasma, and finds

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Right here in Figure 5-6 of NASA's Technical Memorandum 4527, Natural Orbital Environment Guidelines for Use in Aerospace Vehicle Development, it shows that the Cosmic Ray environment is actually *less* severe during a solar Maximum than during a solar Minimum. Note that the effect only applies to rays with energy lower than appx. 10,000 MeV/nucleon, and these would probably be screened out by the atmosphere anyway for a surface observer or classic computer. The rays packing more than 10,000 MeV/nucleon are unaffected by solar max/min. I surmise that when the sun is putting out lots and lots of protons, the extra protons form an additional layer around the inner solar system and screen out some of the cosmic rays. Of course, this means that though there are fewer (low-energy) cosmic rays, there are more solar protons - but their energy distribution falls off rapidly above 10,000 MeV/nucleon (per Figure 5-7c). The bottom line is that unless your classic computer is on orbit, you won't see any particle radiation effects from solar max. Magnetic storms affecting power distribution grids, particlarly far north, quite possibly. On another topic, I salute Captain Napalm for his multiply-encoded message. Chuck, I disagree with you with less vehemence than he - I'd rather see text messages myself - but that was a *hilarious* rejoinder. Well said, er, shown, er, put. On yet another topic: I spotted about a month ago (and finally found my notes) the following gear at a local electronics shop (A-Tex, near the airport in San Antonio, Texas). 2 ea. HP 1615 A Logic Analyzer $31 4 ea. HP 1610 B Logic Analyzer $31 1 ea. Tek. 4105 Monitor $10 1 ea. Tek. 4404 Monitor $10 1 ea. Tek. 4025 Terminal $10 1 ea. HP 1611A logic state analyzer $?? (not marked) Each unit was about the size of a CRT terminal. The 1611 looked like it might be an in-circuit emulator for a Z-80 based on some other text on it. Conditions all unknown, no probes or accessories or manuals. Outsides were dirty and scarred, with some keycaps gone on the terminal. A) What are Logic Analyzers? (This is an embarassing question. No need to coddle me with a long answer, something like "please go *open* the Horowitz and Hill on your bookshelf" could serve.) Anybody know the frequency ranges for these particular units? Could I have fun probing the inside of my Rainbow or Mac Plus with them? Could I have fun probing My friends' PowerPC computers? Are these good prices, assuming they work? B) What do accessories for the logic analyzers (like probes) cost? Can I still get manuals? How could I test these in-situ? C) Is anybody interested enough in any of them to have me pick one up at my next opportunity and ship it (your expense for shipping, could be some time before I can get there and they might be gone already, etc. disclaimer etc.) Thanks in advance on A) and B), and please contact me seperately on C). - Mark

27 years, 3 months

20
35
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Weird find, QNX, and cooling

by cfandt＠netsync.net

At 03:48 PM 1/9/99 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: >Hey, any industrial controller collectors out there? I didn't think so. Well, I am. That's part of my job experience -building/maintaining industrial controls. Allison has experience in this too from what I recall >from her past discussions here. A few others may lurk behind the trees too. > >I just picked up an exceedingly cool 486 box from around 1993 with a >touch-screen LCD and ethernet. The entire machine is about the size of an >Amiga box, but it's in a black hermetically sealed magnesium case. It's >running QNX 4.11, and root didn't have a password (woohoo!). The Li >battery was starting to ooze corrosive juices onto the CPU, but other than >that, it's in primo shape. Clean up that mess. I'm not sure so far but I think that battery juice is a bit toxic. Be careful nevertheless. What kind of manufacturer names are on this thing? > >I have some stupid questions: Not really stupid in this case; you're just new to it. :) > >Was there a GUI for this version of QNX? I can't find one, nor anything >that exploits the touch screen on this box. There are third-party GUI's possibly available for QNX but they are costly. Wonderware's and Intellution's interfaces are around US$2k minimum for example. There may be others cheaper nowadays. These GUIs are typically refered to in the industry as Man-Machine Interface or MMI. QNX is a small realtime OS for control systems. Applications are nearly always handwritten for each installation often using a third-party supplied MMI, etc. No typical desktop apps available for QNX as far as I know. I know little about QNX and my books and catalogs are still packed in boxes after my untimely "downsizing" last year. > >There are three fans inside the box, but it's sealed. I always thought >that fans worked by exchanging hot air for cooler air. What good are >fans inside a sealed box? The industrial environment is quite tough for electronics. Depending on the factory/machine/process, much muck could be drawn into an electronics enclosure by air circulation. In machine shops as an example, tool coolants which are sprayed onto the workpiece and tool are found in the air as an aerosol mist. The aerosol is pulled into a cabinet by the fan and collects on everything. Over time there is a coating of condensed coolant which collects dust and other garbage and prevents proper cooling of critical components. I worked on a 1978 vintage 6800-based CNC controller (not 68k, but Moto's 6800 :) which had this cooling arrangement. After about 12 years I found a 1 mm thick coating of sticky coolant glop coating most everything that was not even close to the airstream of the cabinet cooling fan. Poor idea. A standard PC used in most machine shops is even asking for trouble after a period of time. Sealed Boxes Are Good. Cooling is achieved by thermal exchange between the outer surface of the enclosure and the surrounding atmosphere. Fans inside the box ensure the air is mixed to maintain contact with the inner surface and to prevent "hot spots". On systems which had to have a LOT of electronics, especially high power motor drives and a CRT display, etc. a refrigerated heat exchanger system was hung on the outside of the cabinet with its cooling surface stuck inside the enclosure. Another lower cost, simpler way is to use the venturi-effect which uses filtered compressed air blown through a venturi thus cooling the air and pressurizing the control cabinet. Air was exhausted _out_ of the controls because of the positive pressure inside. Really old machines actually had a small air conditioner placed inside the cabinet. Usually when I built control systems I made sure I could get as much surface area as possible exposed to the outside world. I used cabinets somewhat larger than needed, air moving within, free space around exterior and absolutely no open apperatures to let junk in. Insides were kept clean with fewer electronic failures. Some non-industrial computers that have no fans, especially lo-cost mass-market types, probably had their cases made such that free flow of air around the exterior would help cool things off without relying solely on their vent holes and slots. > >Long shot: the display blanks after a few minutes, and hitting a key (it >has a keyboard port) or touching the screen doesn't unblank it. Any Hard to tell without knowing something about the software written for the thing. Of course, it is not hung on the original machine at this time so there could be some sort of interconnection which would keep the controller running. Though the display blanks this could be related to a feature in just the display panel, not so much the controller. I feel the CPU is halted early on as there are no periferals to be found, so the OS hangs thus not keeping the display 'alive'. >guesses on how to wake it back up (BTW, there's no power switch on this >thing -- it wants to be on *all* the time). 24/7 is the norm for most industrial systems. The power switch for this machine was likely the big disconnect switch on either the machine or the wall from which the AC power was run to from an overhead busbar. You never shut it off unless there was an extended plant shutdown (long vacations) or machine repairs. I haven't got Netscrape back up yet because of a disaster with windoze95 (GRRRR! Don't get me started on this damned OS which cannot handle system problems correctly. The crash was incredibly uncalled for and troublesome. Grrrr.....) but I would suggest searching for a QNX website yourself. They could have some bits of info for you to pick out. Otherwise, as an "unlicensed end user", you may not get any direct help from them. They will likely send you to a local sales rep. Depending upon how sympathetic he/she is to you being a collector type you _might_ get a little assistance or even a few bits of documentation. Good luck. -- Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 3 months

2
2
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Berkeley Enterprises 1956 Report

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>In anticipation of such strawman arguments, I focused on Simon because it >shares almost all of the same traits as the Altair: > * digital > * electronic (or electromechanical, in the case of Simon) > * small > * affordable to build > * well publicized Ok, well, one of the criteria of the Patent office for registered 'firsts' is that it must have utility! What makes it fun, promising, useful as opposed to an academic intellectual curiosity? We read about early logic devices with interest, but the Simon seems to lack a certain critical mass to generate widespread enthusiasm, it's basically an ALU unit. That's like claiming a horizontal output unit, affordable to a home user, was the 'first TV', even tho a sophisticated hobbyist could buy it and use it as a part of a larger project that could actually do something useful. There's nothing really there that would cause thousands of hobbyists to get excited over the possibilities enough to rush out and plop down four grand and swamp the manufacturer with so many orders they couldn't keep up. But we want to know more - was the tape program storage, could it make decisions and branch based on comparisons, scalable, etc. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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IBM type 4836?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/12/99 10:39:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, rhblake(a)bigfoot.com writes: << A friend asked me about what he says is an IBM unit that is running Windows 3.1 and he says it says a type 4836. That number isn't clciking with me, anyone have any ideas of what this is, or is he possibly reading a tag from an add-on/in card? I saw a reference in IBM Finland to a 4836 multiplatform emulation card but nothing else. >> well, if the numbers are swapped around, could be 6384 valuepoint...

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Y2K stuff

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:53 PM 1/9/99 +1030, you wrote: >Are they polymer rather than paper like all ours are now? Still paper, but with a few more security features. >To save money, the govt withdrew all coins below 5c, we now have $1 & $2 >coins, The US could have hundreds of millions of dollars by doing that (at least $1 coins) but it has been demonstrated around the world that the only way to do that *successfully* is to pull the bills out of circulation immediately as the coins are released. Our "Susie B" dollar was a failed attempt -- becuase the bill was not pulled. People claim silly things like it was too close in size to the quarter (BS - try it sometime) or it was too heavy. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

16
22
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X.25?

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

Wired (no, I don't usually read it) reports that hackers were intending to disable Iraqui computer networks, which were supposedly accessible by dialup, and using a 'vintage' protocol called X.25. Could someone tell me what sort of protocol this is and what machines it's likely to involve? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

5
4
0 0

supers

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Victor the Cleaner <jonathan(a)canuck.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 12 January 1999 19:51 Subject: supers >Not much to tell yet. It's a YMP-EL/98, the 8-cpu version of the >air-cooled "baby's first Cray" series. It's been promised to us, Congratulations. Fine catch. Just how big/fast is this thing? >but there's a certain amount of corporate bureaucracy left to >clear. Isn't there always? :^) >Whether participating in distributed crypto challenges (like RC5) >qualifies as "unsavory" is yet to be determined. Nah. I suppose some might think it "unsporting", but it's just jealousy...:^) >At the moment, we know of two other machines of the same family >that are now in private hands. Well, at least you don't have to set a precedent..... >More news when we've got it. Be very interested to hear how you get on. Especially if you get it running. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 3 months

3
3
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Tomy Tutor page updated

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 886 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990112/a741bb71/at…

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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PDP-11/35 looking for a home

by mbg＠world.std.com

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

PRO-350 looking for home...

by mbg＠world.std.com

Posted on comp.sys.dec.micro, contact the person listed, not me: - - - - - Hello, I've got the following stuff I'd like to get rid of - time to clean out the closets - a PRO 350 with a RD52 with the graphics adapter and a net card, plus it's got daughterboards with the one meg conversion I installed and a monitor and keyboard. Works fine. I'm willing to part this thing out as it's too heavy to actually ship anywhere whole . . . . please email jboldway(a)cottagesoft.com - - - - -

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

MfM and Dll

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I picked up an HDD made for the Atari ST by ICD. It is a shoebox form and has space and connectors for 2 HDs. The highly proprietory HD interface by Atari (ATASCI ?) is usually directly converted to SCSI in most newer HD adapter interfaces for STs. In the Atari and ICD HDs the DMA output was converted to SCSI by an ICD card and then to MFM or DLL. via an Adaptec 4004 (MFM) or 4070(RLL) controller. This one has an Adaptec 4070. The 1 drive present is a Miniscribe 3834P . I understand that some MFM drives could be coded by a RLL controller if they were fast enough, etc. I have an ST4096, which according to the specs I have seen is an 80 meg MFM , as well as several other smaller MFM HDs. According to a spec sheet the 4096 would work with Perstor Systems ADRT controllers to double the storage which would seem to indicate it was of high enough speed and quality to stand the tighter coding.. Anyone know if this is also true with an RLL controller or what MFM drives do work with RLL ? ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 3 months

2
2
0 0

Old ASCII (was: Re: Stupid CP/M question)

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

> (including the square brackets) after the PIP command. The syntax is wierd > but that's the way DEC did it in all of their operating systems, which CP/M > is based on. (Actually, they use the underscore which according to the > pre-1968 (?) version of ASCII looked like a leftward-pointing arrow.) PET has a left arrow for that code as well. Sensible, since underscore is available elswhere in the character set (shift-$ IIRC) but I never knew it used to be standard ASCII. What other changes have there been? Is there any precedent for PET using up-arrow instead of circumflex? Philip.

27 years, 3 months

6
5
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"Non-manufacturers"

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Bell and Howell (Hell and Bowel, Ball and Howl, etc.) made plenty of >their own stuff (mainly peripherels), however. Affectionately (?!) referred to as 'Belch and Growl' by members of Techno-fandom. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Stupid CP/M question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<some forms. There was precedent. But the guy hacking <DOS was just messing around, trying to do a slightly <better CP/M (as was Digital Research, who GAVE AWAY the <whole stinking computer world to Bill Gates on a silver Specifically it was seattle computer that needed a 16bit os for their S100 8088 box. They literally took CPM1.4 disassembled it and lofted it to run on 8088 and called the result Q-dos. They had no incentive to improve it and cpm1.4 was actually behind V2.2 (then current!). Billy took it and modified it some say per IBM to go from the CPM allocation scheme to FAT (Billy had used that in their disk basics). <For crying out loud, the first versions of UNIX ran on <minis that didn't have any more memory space than micros. <(OK, so they had 16 bit processors, I know. So did the <PC! Sort of...) Unix had been on DEC pdp-11s for years when the Altair rolled out. It was a $24,000 source license and even though the PDP-11 is 16 bit the instuction set, memory managment and disks were about 10 years ahead of the PC. Unix wanted memory and it wanted a hard disk of some size to work well. What si forgotten is the path to unix(linux etal) was via C language for micros. To that Scot Guthry(Tinyc) was the starting point for Smallc and later SmallVM. Those things were the catalyst needed to get people interested in C (adverse to BASIC and PASCAL) as a language. With a systems language people were thinking about Unix (written in C). concurrent to this DRI was working on and delivered GSS Kernal, GSS-80, and GEM which was influential in presenting graphics to the desktop as part of the OS. Others were doing it but as standalone apps aimed at specific hardware. This was the early to mid 80s where the PC went from XT to AT, DOS to desktops and integrated applications and the z80 was still giving them a hard run for the money. It wouldn't be until the late 80s and the advent of the 386 before the battle lines were starting to clear. In the mid to late 80s the SUN, Apollo and DEC (others too) workstation war would extend to the PC market via apple and the Mac and push 32bit cpus, graphics, networking and performance. I's more than Gates getting dos, it was opportunities and near disasters in the industry that got us here. Even Gates saw a few really bad years in the mid 80s when dos3.3 was really the harbinger pointing at an end of the line with something new/better needed. Graphics we know were not going to happen on PDP11 or most other 16bit cpus as they don't address enough space. OSs were driven by the environment and it's tasks plus space needs. Allison

27 years, 3 months

9
9
0 0

new to the list

by mbg＠world.std.com

>>the list (which is supposed to be very single-minded) contains a number >>of people who actually are single-minded (Tony Duell, Allison Parent, >>Megan Gantry, Pete Turnbull, maybe others). This is good! Don't >>misunderstand me. It's the way it's supposed to be. > >I resent that! I go off topic when the mood or whatever suits, like now. > ;-) I'm not 'singled-minded', I'm *focussed* :-) some would say obsessive-compulsive... :-) and I, too, will respond off-topic... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

8
13
0 0

new to the list

by jonathan＠canuck.com

Hi, folks. I'm new in these parts, having been referred to the list during a quest for some (very) old Data I/O programming equipment. Before I stray from that subject, if anyone has any "Programming Paks" and accompanying socket adapters, I'd appreciate hearing from them by mail. I need a number of particular sets for 1702, 5204, and 6653 EPROMs. If'n anyone's interested, they're for an original Intel MCS-4 (4004) development system, National SC/MP, and Intersil 6100 (the pdp8-compatible one) respectively. I'd also like to hear from anyone who has or is familiar with any of these machines. After a couple of days lurking, I'm finding the endless discussion of Altair prices and email "formats" dreary. The former was a rather badly built piece of crap compared to the IMSAI (though we obviously have to acknowledge the Altair's historical importance - right BEHIND the Mark 8), and the latter has nothing to do with antique computers. I should think that the list owner should have clamped off that discussion some time ago. In other news, Miles O'Neal (meo(a)netads.com) queried: > I'd really like to get hold of a functioning > (or close) Compucolor or Intecolor from the > early 80s. The ones we used at Georgia Tech > were all in one unit (I think), a big color > monitor console sort of thing, like God's own > ADM3a, in technicolor. (I could be wrong, > but that's what I seem to remember.) I'd > prefer one with a disk drive. > > I think this was the coolest thing ever for > learning graphics stuff. > > Anyone have one a mere mortal can afford? I can't imagine why you'd want one. The big Intecolors were mildly interesting, but the 8-track cartridge tape drive was junk of the first order. The later Compucolor IIs (in the hacksawed portable television case with the 5" floppy where the tuner used to be) was one of the most unreliable hacks of the time. I serviced them circa 1980, and they were really bad news. One of the worst excuses for a roll-yer-own switcher I've ever seen, and nonexistent development software. Words of advice: If you want to learn graphics, go track down an SGI Indigo - the purple cube. They're down in the couple-of-hundred-bucks zone now, and one of the most elegantly built machines I've touched in almost 25 years in the biz. On the subject of home-supers, I'd be interested as well in hearing what's out there. We're anticipating getting our hands on a Cray YMP-EL/98 soon, and it appears there are a number of these air-cooled boxes being dumped in various parts of the world. Jonathan Levine

27 years, 3 months

13
30
0 0

supers

by jonathan＠canuck.com

William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> desperately wished to know: > > That's why we're after our first Cray, > > Please tell... Not much to tell yet. It's a YMP-EL/98, the 8-cpu version of the air-cooled "baby's first Cray" series. It's been promised to us, but there's a certain amount of corporate bureaucracy left to clear. Apparently we're going to be asked to vow not to sell the machine - or cycles - to terrorists or other unsavory sorts. Whether participating in distributed crypto challenges (like RC5) qualifies as "unsavory" is yet to be determined. At the moment, we know of two other machines of the same family that are now in private hands. More news when we've got it. Jonathan

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

5.25" Floppies on a P2 system

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, I realize the subject line looks off topic, but it really isn't since this deals with handling and archiving classic media. I seem to recall someone mentioning some of the utilities such as 'putr', 'teledisk', and various other won't work on a modern PC with a 5.25" floppy drive attached. Am I remembering correctly? If so does anyone remember which programs are effected? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 3 months

8
10
0 0

R.I.P. Hayes

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 rhblake(a)bigfoot.com wrote: > They still have an active and alive webpage at http://www.hayes.com/ without any > mention of demise. Where did you get this info? ZDNet. I think Hayes probably forgot to update their webpage, they probably have better things to do. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Tic-tac-toe (was: RE: Bulbs in parallel)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> ObOT: BTW, does anybody know approximately when tit-tat-toe got renamed >> tic-tac-toe? Or is a regional thing? > > Don't our "Queen's English" friends (uk and au) call it "naughts and > crosses"? Well, I _did_ call it that when I wrote a programme, sorry, program fom my PET to play it. But it was a pun on the more conventional spelling, "noughts and crosses" AFAICT, Nought = Zero, Naught = Nothing Tic-Tac-Toe is a name I had met even then, but Tit-Tat-Toe I've not come across before. Any etymological connection with Tit for Tat? Philip.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RT - the rude, the bad, and the ugly

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Miles O'Neal <meo(a)netads.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 9 January 1999 19:03 Subject: RT - the rude, the bad, and the ugly <snip> >Quick vignettes... > >1) I contracted for IBM here in Austin for a while. There > was an RT on the austin.ibm.com network named "doorstop". > AFAIK, about all it was being used for was to answer the > pings for "doorstop". > >2) At PSW, Frank King (the IBM upper manager who more or > less built the IBM workstation division) had just been > installed as president when we took him on a tour of the > premises. As we escorted him into the secure lab, his > eyes lit up as he saw an RT. > > ``An RT! Wonderful! What do you use this for?'' > > Tom Stewart pushed it in front of the door to hold it open. > ``A doorstop? What else?'' <snip> >The high bidder would get to step out back onto the rifle range >(why have 5 acres in Texas without a rifle range?), and put a >7.62mm bullet into the RT's evil, beating heart. <snip> >Nah, I'm sure there are 3rd world countries that would take them. >But after they had them a while, they'd be even more pissed at >the US than they are now... 8^/ Is that possible??? ;^) Having almost choked on my coffee (actually it, was a West End Draught, but I digress) and had my leg scratched by the resident cat who took flight off my lap whilst reading the above, I think it may be time that we required such posts to have an obligatory warning of C&C (Coffee & Cats) variety, so I don't do it again. :^) Any seconders? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au >

27 years, 3 months

5
5
0 0

RT-11 Help

by dogas＠leading.net

Thanks for the URL, Zane. Looks like I'll have to turn on the Bat... errr... Magen signal. ;) *throwing switch* - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 1:29 AM Subject: Re: RT-11 Help >>I dont know RT-11 (yet.) and am looking forward to the experience. But >>before that happens the seller wants to purge some sensitive employee files >>on the system. Can someone tell me how to tell him to 1) move through the >>directory structure, and 2) how to delete specific files ( some that span >>partitions 0 - du4 according to him ), and... > >No idea on this I'm afriad. My RT-11 system is no where near this complex yet. > >>Where can I find a good source of RT-11 info? > >The RT-11 manuals, and good luck finding a set :^( > >On the other hand the following URL will have some basic info if you take >the time to do some serious looking. It also has all kinds of other >interesting info, DEC and other. >http://www-ols.fnal.gov/ols/documents/docpn.html Of course this is all >pretty specific to some government lab. Wish they had more of the >documentation they list on line. > > Zane > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

SCSI floppies

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I've got a question: has anyone ever heard of a SCSI floppy drive? I was talking to someone about one, and he said he'd never even heard of one, and when I thought about it, I hadn't either. Anyway, my question is about a WANG WLTC laptop that I have. It has an internal 10 MB JVC 16pin HD (ID 0), and an external (no internal) 360k SCSI floppy (ID 1). In the manual, it says that a 720k floppy and a 1.2 MB floppy was also available for it. My question is will a 1.44 MB floppy work on it? If so, where would I even be able to find one, since I've never even seen one until I got this huge WANG. (weighs about 18 lbs, plus the floppy is about another 18). Happy Holidaze -and- ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

10
13
0 0

Bulbs in parallel

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Sorry this is so late. I just don't do email when I'm at home. And so over Christmas a lot of email piled up and I'm way behind in my reading. If this question has been answered, well I havn't gotten that far yet in my reading. >On Sat, 19 Dec 1998 CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: >> Unfortunately, lots of "fundamental" knowledge gets left out when you >> skip electric lights and go to things much more complex. Max Eskin said: >OK, now I have the feeling I may have forgotten something. When you wire >some bulbs in series, and one burns out, they all fail. If they are wired >in ||, and one burns out, the others keep burning. What more is there? OK, what would you say if I told you that you could build a two input AND gate or a two input OR gate using just two neon bulbs (in parallel), one resistor AND NO TRANSISTORS? Or, how about a one bit readable, writable memory circuit consisting of one neon bulb, two resistors, and a capacitor? How about a ring counter with no ICs, no transistors? I put some scanned pages up on my web page so you could grab them. The .ZIP file consists of 11 .GIF files. Each file represents two pages. So lamp4546.gif (pages 45 and 46) is the first two pages and lamp6566.gif is the last two pages. The zip file is at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/lamp.zip If you can't view .GIF files offline, then just bring up each file with your browser. Start with http://www.best.com/~dcoward/lamp4546.gif I'll leave the files up for at least a week. I hope this rekindles your interest in lamp circuits. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 3 months

10
10
0 0

Fw: What is a VAX 8350 fully loaded worth?

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

This one is for all you British collectors. -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Stallwood <jamie_stallwood(a)bigfoot.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms Date: Monday, 11 January 1999 9:54 Subject: Re: What is a VAX 8350 fully loaded worth? >There will be a pair of 8350's with CI and dual HSCs coming free in about 3 >months in Britain. If anyone can suggest a good home for it, or wants to convert >it into a large freezer or something, dop me a line at >jamie.stallwood(a)cwcom.co.uk and I will let you know when it will become free. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

The IBM 3101 NATO round?

by meo＠netads.com

Geoff Roberts said... | |>Crappy Soviet 7.62x39 military ammo. | |That too. :^) But a 7.62 NATO is a little shorter than the 7.62 Russian. The 7.62 NATO is 7.62x51, the same as a .308 Winchester. The 7.62 Russian rifle cartridge is slightly longer than this (either 53 or 54 mm), but that's completely different than the 7.62x38, which was developed for carbines. |Got to Indonesia. We sold them the contents of the factory that made |our 7.62mm NATO/.308 SLR's |(Self Loading Rifles - Basically an FN rifle with a few refinements) You |could probably buy one dirt cheap. By the time I factor in the trip, that would be equivalent to going to Alaska to bu a Sinclair ZX80. |>But, like an IBM 3101 terminal, you can toss an SKS or AK off a roof, |>run over it with a truck, drag it through the mud, and it will *still* |>let you log on and do its job. Um, I mean, shoot as well as it ever |did. | |This is not exactly inspiring. An AK is probably the most inaccurate |assault rifle ever built. |(As I'm sure you know already);^) At 100m, it's just fine. Which is what it wa sbuilt for - short range (I admit, the idea of running the sites on my SKS up to the 500m setting is hysterical - I would want something like a battleship for a backstop! But the IBM 3101 was a beast, too. Slow. Clunkiest keyboard I think I have ever used. As big as a Cromemco with a Televideo 950. But built like a tank. |No experience with IBM 3101's, so I'll take your word for it. B^) It was IBM's irst (AFAIK) attempt to enter the world of ASCII and RS-232. It was, I suppose, successful. It was the right thing to put on a MODCOMP, which was what we had them on - because they would probably both survive WWW III. |It would have to be truly awful to beat an ADM3 though. I have one of |those. Want to get rid of it to make space for something else? 8^) -Miles

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Mac HD20 INIT needed

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I recently got a Mac HD20 hard drive, which is the floppy-based hard drive for the 512k Mac. It requires the HD20 INIT file, which does the following: <insert> The Mac 128 and 512k will need [the HD20 INIT] extension to use the HD20. The Mac 512ke and Plus do not. Basically the 64k ROM, 400k drive Macs need the extension and 128k ROM, 800k drive Macs don't. The 128k ROM as well as the HD20 INIT give the required HFS instead of MFS of the 64k ROM. In fact your Mac512k can also use an external 800k disk drive with the HD20 INIT (and this works out well, 400k internal, HD20 hard drive, 800k external floppy). The early Macs can support up to 3 floppy devices (including the one inside)." </insert> Does anyone have this file? Thanks! [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Berkeley Enterprises 1956 Report

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> >Adobe Streamline is a raster-to-vector program. I've got it, but I haven't >ever tried it on schematics. I would disparage Streamline but I assume/hope its improved in the 4 or 5 yrs since last used it... The vectorizer ( Trace? ) from Corel was pretty good at that sort of stuff though. - Mike:dogas@leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

new to the list

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Miles O'Neal <meo(a)netads.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 9 January 1999 19:10 Subject: Re: new to the list >Ward Donald Griffiths III said... >|tools I've found from a commercial supplier -- if somebody was to >|port SMIT to Linux, my life would approach perfection. > >If they did, and trie dto put it on my system, I'd have >to hurt them. Ok, as a (currently) AIX deprived person, might I ask WTH is SMIT please? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 3 months

8
16
0 0

Berkeley Enterprises 1956 Report

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

At 10:57 PM 1/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >OK, next time somebody tells you that the Altair was the first personal or >home computer, give them this URL: > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/berkeley/report.html > > <snip> > >-- Doug > Very interesting document, Doug, and fun to read. But I think that in 1956, a $4000 computer (Simon) could hardly be considered a home or personal computer. Wouldn't that have been more than most people's annual salary? I think on the price/performance scale, the Altair is the winner and still champion; it's price was probably in reach of more hobbyists. Cheers, Mark.

27 years, 3 months

4
5
0 0

Macintosh SE

by fauradon＠pclink.com

What kind of network are you working with? Appletalk, Ethernet..? -----Original Message----- From: van <van(a)wired.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 7:00 PM Subject: Macintosh SE >Hi there... > >Does anyone have experience networking a Mac SE? I really need some advice... > >Please help! > >xoxo van > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >van burnham +++ van(a)wired.com +++ 71 +++++++ http://www.futuraworld.com >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >designer +++ http://www.hotwired.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 415.276.8424 +++ >wired digital +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >++++++++++++++++++ 660 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 > >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K stuff

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 11 January 1999 12:28 Subject: Re: Y2K stuff >At 12:53 PM 1/9/99 +1030, you wrote: >>Are they polymer rather than paper like all ours are now? > >Still paper, but with a few more security features. > >>To save money, the govt withdrew all coins below 5c, we now have $1 & $2 >>coins, > >The US could have hundreds of millions of dollars by doing that (at least >$1 coins) but it has been demonstrated around the world that the only way >to do that *successfully* is to pull the bills out of circulation >immediately as the coins are released. That is what happened here. No notes < $5. The $1 & $2 coins are a brass composite, and are gold in color. Quite distinctive. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Bulbs in parallel

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 12 January 1999 7:41 Subject: RE: Bulbs in parallel >> ObOT: BTW, does anybody know approximately when tit-tat-toe got renamed >> tic-tac-toe? Or is a regional thing? > >Don't our "Queen's English" friends (uk and au) call it "naughts and >crosses"? Noughts and Crosses actually. :^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

PR1ME system rescue

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 10 January 1999 14:08 Subject: PR1ME system rescue > The system is CPU, 32M of ram, 16 I/O ports, a Century 300M 10" >drive, a Seagate Sabre attached to a SCSI PORT!! (yay!) a Kennedy >9100 in Prime livery, and the usual load of cables and Stuff. Congratulations. I want one of those too. Getting a bit rare around here. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Now very OT:Re: RT - the rude, the bad, and the ugly

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Miles O'Neal <meo(a)netads.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 10 January 1999 5:46 Subject: Re: RT - the rude, the bad, and the ugly >Ward Donald Griffiths III said... >| >|> >The high bidder would get to step out back onto the rifle range >|> >(why have 5 acres in Texas without a rifle range?), and put a >|> >7.62mm bullet into the RT's evil, beating heart. >| >|Crappy NATO 7.62 renaming of .30 cal. Jerks. Gimme a Winchester >|.308. >Crappy Soviet 7.62x39 military ammo. That too. :^) But a 7.62 NATO is a little shorter than the 7.62 Russian. I was taught that an AK47 would chamber and fire a 7.62 NATO round, (a bit loose, but it's fireable) but the 7.62 Russian won't fit in an SLR, FN or M60. I doubt this is an accident. >But find me a new gun in .308 for $99, and I'll buy it. Got to Indonesia. We sold them the contents of the factory that made our 7.62mm NATO/.308 SLR's (Self Loading Rifles - Basically an FN rifle with a few refinements) You could probably buy one dirt cheap. I wouldn't vouch for how legal it would be. It's not a full auto weapon, (the L1A1's we had, anyway) so it should be importable to your country at least. There was an auto version (L2A1, IIRC) but it wasn't a big hit. Our Armed Forces downgraded (IMNSHO) to a locally made/modded version of the 5.56mm F88 Steyr (Bullpup style) They have already discovered that:- 1: If you go to ground the wrong way, you will smash it to bits (it has a lot of plastic). Magazines and the butt are particulary vulnerable. Magazines are transparent plastic. 2: It's not as accurate as they hoped because the scope gets beat up by belting it around in the bush. 3: It's not as accurate as they hoped because the barrel/breech fit gets stuffed up becaus of the brass hats insisting that the grunts have to take the barrel off (a twist fit) when carrying out safety on the weapon. You are supposed to pull off the barrel and squint into the breech to make sure it's empty. This is not good for the weapon, as it wears the lugs that latch the barrel to the receiver, eventually the weapons accuracy (which is very good out of the box) reduces to a point where it's only somewhat better than an AK47. 4: It's less reliable, lot's more little moving parts. 5: The round does less damage at long range than the heavier 7.62, particularly, it doesn't penetrate anywhere near as well. 6: The troops hate it. 7: WOD's/RSM's hate it. The rifle drill movements looks like S... "Reverse Arms" is a joke with this weapon. 8: It's capable of full auto and it weighs less than the SLR. About the only positive statement I've heard about it, so far. 9: It doesn't have a bayonet fitting. >But, like an IBM 3101 terminal, you can toss an SKS or AK off a roof, >run over it with a truck, drag it through the mud, and it will *still* >let you log on and do its job. Um, I mean, shoot as well as it ever did. This is not exactly inspiring. An AK is probably the most inaccurate assault rifle ever built. (As I'm sure you know already);^) >[Which isn't that great, but fine for what it was intended for. Useful at short range, but then so is a 9mm SMG. >Just like an IBM 3101. Truly the Mack Truck of ASCII terminals.] No experience with IBM 3101's, so I'll take your word for it. B^) It would have to be truly awful to beat an ADM3 though. I have one of those. I used it as a console for a Vax for a while. (Shudder) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Berkeley Enterprises 1956 Report

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>OK, next time somebody tells you that the Altair was the first personal >or home computer, give them this URL: First - that's very interesting research and glad to read about it (esp. remember some switch/relay/light versions of the FoxHenCorn puzzle as well as Nim, and they remind me of the Claude Shannon maze solving mouse in SciAM. I almost had that schematic memorized but never built one. It had a 3 bit memory so it could 'learn' a 3 fork maze, and a rotating 'randomizer' for the one's the mouse didn't know. My 'first' personal computer then was made out of a piece of fence, 24 or so nails, a 'D'cell, 3 or 4 lamps and a lot of hookup wire) B_b_b_but Berkeley Ent. didn't really market it as a personal *home* computer, looks like the target audience they hope to sell into is advertising gimmicks, 'show stoppers'. Also, unlike other machines sold to academia or business uses, the Altair was marketed to people who buy or build their own HI-FI/Stereos, CB/Ham radios - i.e., the HOME hobbyist. For $60/ month. I can own my OWN computer, free and clear to do whatever I want with, not limited by the funding strings that dictate what I can do with one at work or at school. Free at last!! Again, without any further defining guidelines, other than the default Intel ('PC') lineage, and a tip of the hat to the unsuccessful Mark-8, I posit that the 'first PC's' are the abacus, knots on string, pushing stones around on tables, Napiers bones, slide rules - or does it have to include an 'active' element (relay, tube, transistor, IC)? I'm lost as far as what your qualifying criteria is. Of course, one can always custom tailor their list of criteria so that the machine you've already chosen as 'first' comes out as such, post facto, hehe. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 3 months

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Bulbs in parallel

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Yep... That's it. I guess my recollection isn't too bad considering I hadn't seen one in 35 years. Haven't been following this group long enough to realize it's already been discussed. Shoulda known someone here would know what it was. Thanks, Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: Ward D. Griffiths III [SMTP:gram@cnct.com] Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 4:58 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Bulbs in parallel The Edmund Digi-Comp I has been discussed here in the past, examine the pictures at <http://galena.tj.edu.inter.net/digicomp/> and see if they look familiar. Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > A little story: > > Seeing the tinkertoy computer reminds me of the mechanical "Computer" I got > for Christmas when I was about 7 years old (1961..ish). It was a long long > time ago and my memory could be a little distorted but, as I recall: >

27 years, 3 months

2
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Bulbs in parallel

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

A little story: Seeing the tinkertoy computer reminds me of the mechanical "Computer" I got for Christmas when I was about 7 years old (1961..ish). It was a long long time ago and my memory could be a little distorted but, as I recall: It was made primarily of plastic and was about a foot long, 6 inches high, and 6 inches deep. This "toy" was built in horizontal layers or "planes" where each plane was one bit in the computer. The planes could slide either to the right or left to represent the logic states. If the plane was in the leftmost position, it represented a "0". If the plane was in the rightmost position, it represented a "1". I believe there were about 4 planes total. There was a "flag" (literally a flag) attached to the left end of each plane that provided the output. As the machine was cycled, the flags would raise and lower with the change in states. Along the rear of the computer there were a series of vertical wires that pushed the planes either to the right or to the left. These wires were the logic "gates" that drove the computer. As I recall there were about 8 of the wires (gates) in total. There were small projections from the rear of each plane that interacted with the wires (gates). To program the computer you placed small sections of a plastic soda straw, about 1" long, on some of the projections. The straws provided the input for each of the gates. If a straw was on one of the projections, it would interact with the wire (logical 1). If there was no straw on the projection, the wire would not touch the projection (logical 0). To operate the computer, the user would move a selected plane from one state to another. Any straws attached to the projections on that plane would push against the wires (gates) which in turn would push against the other planes in the machine. Some of the planes would change states, some would not. For each cycle of the machine, the user had to program in the next instruction. This meant moving around the straws on the back of the machine. Once the next instruction was loaded, the plane was slid back the other way. I never thought about it before but, this thing actually got two instructions per clock cycle. Max clock speed was about .01 CPS :-) The manual had detailed instructions for playing TIC-TAC-TOE and it actually worked. Unfortunately, it did not provide enough other examples so, I could never figure out how to make my own programs :-( I'm still fascinated by mechanical computers! Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> > > So, where is the gag ? Just don't forget, the Z1 was entirely > > mechanical, to be powered by a crank (if necercary - of course they > > prefered th electric motor :). > > Gag? Mechanical computers are serious stuff, Hans. Like Danny Hillis' > tinker-toy tic-tic-toe machine: > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/toy/tinkertoy.jpg > > ObOT: BTW, does anybody know approximately when tit-tat-toe got renamed > tic-tac-toe? Or is a regional thing? Don't our "Queen's English" friends (uk and au) call it "naughts and crosses"?

27 years, 3 months

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y2k stuff

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

David Hansen wrote: > Ok, so it sounds like the general consensus on this list doesn't > perceive any possible problems from systems that perform automatic > disconnection/refusal of services due to systems that are based on > time/date ranges? Here are some examples of situations that are believed > to be possible... No, it is not that we do not perceive any possible problems. I at least believe that there will be problems. But I don't believe there will be major ones. And I certainly don't believe that they will happen all suddenly on 1/1/00. > utilities (power/water/telephone): > Say a disconnect period is 2 consecutive months of non-payment. A > customer pays his/her bill regularly but if the date isn't interpreted > properly the next time the system does a check for 'disconnect > candidates' it will not be able to find a single payment from a single > customer within a 2 consecutive months time period prior to 01/01/00 > (1900). Possible. And may affect telephones. But water, gas and electricity suppliers won't have the staff to go out and cut everyone off, since this has to be done physically at the premises. Besides, such a huge number of disconnections will be noticed and the cause identified. > banks: > Keeping in mind that banks routinely deactivate and -absorb- every > account that is over x years idle (commonly 2 yrs. but every one I have > come across has some variant of this), see how the above method applies > to this situation. Are you sure this is legal? A couple of years ago the National Savings Bank (as it was in the UK) were saying that they had accounts that had been inactive for over eighty (yes, 80) years with a few shillings in but they couldn't close them because they couldn't trace the owners or their heirs. (BTW Nat Savings never paid interest on balances less than a pound, so a few shillings 80 years ago is still a few * 5p today) AFAIK there is nothing in any contract I take out with a bank that says that if I deposit money and leave it there for over 2 years they are entitled to it. I come back 10 or 20 years later expecting to retrieve my savings. Yes, I did this with my German bank account in 1995 having not touched it since (I think) 1985. It was still there and I could still draw money out when on holiday in Germany. Yes, empty accounts may well vanish, and rightly so! > vendors of perishables: > Shipments of perishable items (food/medicine) are refused by automated > systems that read the dates on the items as expired. This has _already happened_ and will be addressed long before 2000. IIRC a chain of supermarkets in the UK was asked by a tinned (canned) food supplier why they were suddenly ordering three times the usual amount of tomatoes. It turned out that the warehouse was accepting tinned tomatoes each day; overnight the stock check found that they were out of date ("best before end feb 00" or something) and ditched them, and the following day more were ordered. It is not something that suddenly happens in 2000. > payroll: > Employee doesn't have any hours during the 'new' pay period so no > paycheck is issued. Also paychecks are issued with wrong dates and such. > Clients aren't billed if there isn't anything in the billing period. > etc... May happen. But the first manifestations of the bug will have turned up already - temporary contracts that expire in 2 or 3 years for example. Our accounting, job control etc. system uses 2 digit dates. Last year (or the year before - I forget) a lot of work was done on our system and a 2 digit date is now assumed to lie between 1950 and 2049. > security access: > I'll use my company as an example. I have full access to the office > building between the hours of 7am - 7pm M-F by way of a keycard. If the > wrong year is being calculated then M-F can easily be Sat-Wed., etc... As Tony and others have pointed out, this will probably occur. But it is relatively easy to override manually until sorted out. > credit cards: > Accounts are deactived or non-existent. Credit card companies - I forget who told this one from personal experience - hit the bug a year ago with cards that _expired_ in 00. This made them do all the necessary work then. While I concede that it is possible that there may be a few bugs left in (spurious late payment penalties for example), I doubt that accounts will disappear (and who will care? I'm not going to fuss if a lot of money I owe is forgotten about ;-) ). I know this is another "assumption" - that having hit the one bug they did all the work to cure the others - but I think the evidence points that way. Damn! This discussion is way off topic and I wasn't going to join in. Oh well, I've typed it now. Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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Sociology and Message formatting

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

> Spiritusumdrucker! What a fantastic word! I think that would be a > mimeograph? Oh, a spirit duplicator! I've been wondering for ages what a Mimeograph was! In the UK such machines were generally known by brand names. For small runs - a couple of hundred copies - one used a Banda machine (2-part sheets on which typing or writing transferred a waxy, usually purple ink to the back of the top sheet. The duplicating machine put solvent on this so it would transfer the ink to the paper. For longer runs one used a Gestettner (I don't know how to spell it, either) machine. Cut stencils by typing with the ribbon disabled in your typewriter, or drawing with a special stylus. I heard of electronic stencil cutters that would transfer a plain paper image to a Gestettner stencil, but I never saw one. Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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ST506 on a modern system

by meo＠netads.com

Can modern IBM PC clones easily handle ST506 hard drives? IE, is IDE a superset of this? Or does one have to find an ST506 controller board? Thanks, Miles

27 years, 3 months

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Sociology and Message formatting (Spiritusumdrucker)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, >By the time I was in high school dittos were a distant memory. To put it >in (classiccmp) perspective, by that time inkjets were still on the >horizon and dot matrix printers were still the <rage>. As a matter of fact, mimeograph/ditto/Spiritusumdrucker machines provided me with one of my favorite examples of "antique" technology's applicability. My wife was teaching at a high school in the early 1990's that had a way over-subscribed photocopier and an idle mimeograph machine. She made handouts on our Mac Plus using WriteNow and SuperPaint (both fantastic programs). She then printed them onto mimeograph masters using our ImageWriter 1, an *impact* (dot-matrix) printer, at home the night before class. She'd take the master to school in the morning, hook it up to the mimeograph machine, and crank out 250 copies as fast as she could turn the crank - then stroll to class past the line of frantic teachers awaiting their turn on the photocopier, having saved the school appx. $10 in copying costs. She could also save and modify files and print new masters at her convenience. No need to carefully retype or coddle a master for a whole year for next year's class, or try to stretch a dying master for 30 more prints. It was a great system. BTW, she later convinced me to *give away* the Imagewriter in favor of a Stylewriter (inkjet) we recieved as a gift, just prior to moving to Texas. Not one of my better decisions. Ah well. - Mark

27 years, 3 months

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a little more compucolor rant; sgi

by jonathan＠canuck.com

Courtesy ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell): >> I've ever seen, and nonexistent development software. Words of advice: >> If you want to learn graphics, go track down an SGI Indigo - the purple > Look, (and this may sound strange....) if all you want to do is compute, > go and get a PC or a Mac, right. Part of the fun of classic computers is > dealing with 'warts and all' - the fact that there are kludges > everywhere, but somehow we get round them. Yup. With a great big hammer and a nearby dumpster. If I want warts, fun, and interesting, I'll spend my time on the MCS-4 or even one of my old DG Novas. They had their strengths and their weaknesses, but they were both well-built and historically significant. A badly-designed machine was a waste of time the first time around - you insult your own short lifespan by wasting yet more. If you don't agree with me, I'll be happy to send you a box of assorted unreliable S-100 DRAM boards that will keep you busy well into your retirement. As for fun vs. usable, who the hell says you should have to choose? Why not have both? That's why we're after our first Cray, why we maintain the NetBSD Build Lab (a single location in which we're trying to assemble one example of each machine supported). Normally I couldn't give half a shit for Amigas, but it's fun to rackmount one and help get unix running on it. Maybe that's the primary philosophical divergence here: I consider few obsolete machines to be inherently interesting, when there are so many others that are merely _thought_ to be obsolete but are still utterly useful given a current, robust OS. > Having once tried to get spare parts out of SGI, never again. I don't > want a totally unmaintainable machine, thank you very much. It was all > custom silicon, and it was all unavailable.... Well, this is just silly. How much more luck have you had getting parts for that Compucolor? SGIs are just like anything else - if you've got enough bits you can maintain them yourself. And I'll tell you one thing for sure: Gathering enough spares to do the support is easy, seeing as how there aren't (yet) any collector scum driving the prices of Indigos to 20 times their original price. Jonathan

27 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by ekman＠lysator.liu.se

Speaking of the Horizon, does anyone know anything about a New Jersey-based company called Dendron Amusements? They apparently produced a number of games for the Horizon based on Avalon Hill's strategy board games. This must have been around 1979. I am interested in any kind of information about this company or its games. /Fredrik

27 years, 3 months

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old sgis

by jonathan＠canuck.com

Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> wanted to know: > I have a chance to grab some Silicon graphics Irix 31xx machines... They > SEEM to need a boot tape. Anyone know anything about these boxes? What's > the OS? There were a number of mostly-accurate replies to this yesterday. Seeing as how I wrote the FAQ, I'd like to present the mostly-definitive reply. First, this is a 68020-based, Multibus machine. Nothing at all in common with the later MIPS systems. According to William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net>: > You are going to want and OLD version of IRIX (around version 3), as these > boxes were fairly quickly kicked off the support wagon (SGI seems to be > kind of bad about that). These old things are not incredibly usefull Unix > boxes, as X was never (to my knowledge) ported to them. The graphics are > quite good even today, as it probably has a board stuffed with Geometry > Engines. IRIX 3.6 was the last OS distributed. There's some incomplete 3.7 stuff kicking around, but probably not of interest to most. To my knowledge, no open-source unix has ever been ported to one. X is not supported, though TCP/IP is, so you can get it on the network, but it's going to take you a bit of work to make it useful, like compiling bind, as they predated DNS. Your server will offer you a delightful choice of drives: ST506, ESDI, or SMD. No SCSI. Note that when SGI put out the first 4D (MIPS R2K/R3K) machines, they called the OS IRIX 3.something as well, just to create confusion. > Well, there are 3 of them for about $30.00 each... Huge cabinets and huge > monitors... IMnot-so-HO, that's too much money. Stuff of that vintage should be GIVEN to you for nothing. Pay 'em $90 only if they'll deliver. > Are they worth grabbing? Can I use the monitors for anything? Can I > connect them to my ARCnet/Ethernet/Parallel/Serial port network and be > useful? Yes, they all have ethernet. Want a unix box? If so, they're worth grabbing. Monitors are fixed-sync RGB, and probably not useful on anything else you have or might get. As it happens, there's another (non-list) chap for whom I've been getting my 3130 running again (a bad video board, then a blown /etc/passwd...) in order to generate a boot/install tape. I'd be much more enthusiastic about doing it if there were a few other people on the list who need them as well, so I can do a bunch at one time. Jonathan

27 years, 3 months

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y2k stuff

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/5/99 12:40:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, Its an interesting thought, and I know from personal experience that a set of Kenwood Twins operating at 100Watts about 4 ft from a TRS80 Model 1 can cause it to crash. I would think its possible for a big solar flare to at least affect an old TRS80. unlikely, though. kelly dastar(a)ncal.verio.com writes: > > >>> > > Every 11 years the sun sends storms of cosmic rays which disrupt all sorts > > of electrical devices. The last was in 1989, and they are due again in <snip> > > >>> > > As Bill Gates would say, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If > cosmic rays were to blame for the EIs suckiness then every computer back > then would have had similar problems. No, you can't blame Radio Shack's > sorry-assed engineering on cosmic rays, but nice try. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic. > com >

27 years, 3 months

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ST506 on a modern system

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

>Jerome Fine replies: > >I realize this may be a very dumb question, BUT if I have an ST506 >Qbus controller (either DEC RQDX1,2,3 OR 3rd party compatible >like Dilog or Emulex), would it be possible to change the 34/20 pin >cables (NOTE: On the Emulex DM01, there is already ONLY a >SINGLE 50 pin cable which is split 34/8/8) and connect those >cables in some manner to an IDE drive? Thats a dumb question. The situation is that an IDE drive has it's controller on board the drive and it is proprietary. The purpose of the IDE "controller" card is only to provide a standard interface. Hans

27 years, 3 months

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NorthStar Horizon incoming

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Bruce, FOLD THE LINES! MY screen is not 200 chars wide and I really hate horozontal scrolling! < Here's what I remember about Horizons: S100 bus, CP/M for an OS, built pre < The native OS was NS* DOS not cp/m though there were several vendors of CPM configured for horizon. Generally they were z80/4mhz cpucard, MDS hard sector disk of 80k for the older single density controller or up to 800k for the later DD controller. Ram minimum for running NS*dos was 16k orged at 2000h while cpm required 20k(minimum and 56k max due to memory mapped disk controller). The s100 backplane was not IEEE696 complient but pretty close considering its design window was many years earlier. The mackplane also carried the logic for two serial ports, parallel port, interrupt logic and a heartbeat timer. A minimum system could then be the box and three cards and the most often cards added were ram. Theses systems use an external terminal though I'd set mine up with a VDM-1 video card and a encoded parallel keyboard. Another OS that ran on the NS* was UCSD PASCAL P-system. The basic system for that required 48k ram and two floppy disks minimum and three(or four if it was the DD version) were more useable. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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X.25?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com> wrote: > Wired (no, I don't usually read it) reports that hackers were intending to > disable Iraqui computer networks, which were supposedly accessible by > dialup, and using a 'vintage' protocol called X.25. Could someone tell me > what sort of protocol this is and what machines it's likely to involve? There used to be (probably still are) X.25 public data networks. "Public" means "not private" -- effectively, the network owner sells connections and bandwidth to paying external customers, not just to users within the owner's company. You as a customer would pay your money, and the network owner would deal with details like telco so that you effectively get RS-232 synchronous serial port(s) that want to see and hand out X.25 packets at your various locations, and X.25 network addresses corresponding to those ports. Or maybe you would pay for the telco stuff and an access charge to the network provider, and get a port on the network provider's X.25 packet switch. This might be of use to you if you had a need for computer/computer or computer/terminal communication between distant locations. Host computers (minicomputers and larger) often had X.25 network interfaces available as an option, and software that supported computer-to-computer communications and/or terminal-to-computer communications over it. Terminals didn't, but you could get devices called PADs (Port Access Devices? I can't remember) that had connections for terminals, an X.25 connection for the network, and could either act something like a multiplexer, running all the terminal sessions over a permanent virtual circuit (PVC) to a host's address, or like a terminal server, using switched virtual circuits (SVCs) to connect to any host address on the network. Or you might just have a host and a casual need for connectivity from terminals in remote locations, e.g. you've got some database and you sell access to it. So rather than installing a modem rack, you get a connection to Telenet and tell your customers that they need to dial in to their local Telenet access number (which is really a Telenet-owned modem pool with something-like-PADs behind it) with a terminal and modem and connect to such-and-such address. Either way, the X.25 public data network solution could be cheaper than installing point-to-point telco data lines between your hosts and terminals, and the X.25 network provider could offer internal redundant routing that might be prohibitively expensive for you to implement on your own. Now, that said, X.25 networks do not need to be public. If you have the wherewithal, you can build your very own X.25 network out of the same sorts of hardware that the public data network providers use. I guess the Iraqi government could have one or several. And I remember a data center that, in the late 1980s, got fed up with its computer-to-computer communications being done entirely of point-to-point links between computers (with a protocol that wasn't smart enough to forward messages -- if you wanted to go from host A to host C, and the only connection was through B, you had to log on to B >from A then C from B) and bought a small Dynapac X.25 switch to sit between the computers. X.25 can also be used to transport other protocols' datagrams, e.g. IP. In fact the US Defense Data Network was IP-over-X.25 and may still be for all I know. I think this sort of thing is either incompatible with or distinct from using X.25 to carry host/terminal traffic (in much the same way that e.g. rlogin and telnet are distinct -- they both run over TCP but use different protocols, and different ports so TCP can multiplex them), so you can't just dial into a PAD and telnet to a host doing IP over X.25, unless the PAD also does telnet and IP over X.25. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 3 months

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Digital handbooks available

by meo＠netads.com

I have a pair of 1981 Digital handbooks: VAX Architecture processor handbook pdp11/04/24/34a/44/70 Instruction sets, addressing modes, all that jive. Don't recall where I got them, except that I saved them from a circular file. I don't need them (I have plenty of books on the VAX and I never got into the PDPs). Anybody need them? -Miles

27 years, 3 months

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Message formats

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:47 AM 1/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >> understand your subject well enough. If you need to include formatting >> (such as Word files or data or even code) it can be sent as an attachment > >What code (I assume we mean programming, not encryption) could ever >need formatting aside from appropriate indents? (The progam's >compiler shouldn't even require those). Sorry, I meant *compiled* code, as in executables... You'd think I would have learned by now not to respond to e-mail when I'm exhausted. (Of course, that would mean never responding... If life ain't interesting, it probably ain't worth living.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

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Want _Fire in the Valley_

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Anyone know where I can get or have a spare copy of _Fire in the Valley_? Someone was going to send me one a while back but never did. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98]

27 years, 3 months

1
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NorthStar Horizon incoming

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 805 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990109/6d618d78/at…

27 years, 3 months

4
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micro PDP-11 "Fatal RSTS/E system initialization error!"

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

I powered my micro PDP-11 up for the first time, today. Here's what happens (please keep in mind I have no manuals or familiarity with the PDP-11): Memory Test Message: "Booting from DU0" Message: "Device XK0: does not interrupt - device disabled" Message: "RSTS v8.0-07 Micro/RSTS (DU0) INIT v8.0-07" "Option" prompt. At the "Option" promt, I typed "Help", bringing up a list of options. {To actually begin "using" the computer, am I correct in assuming I want to select the option "Start" to start timesharing?} At the "Option" prompt, I typed "Start". Here's what the screen looks like, afterwards: Option: START Disk is being rebuilt - wait... DU0 error UDASA P.OPCD P.STS P.BCNT P.BUFF P.BUF2 P.LBN 000000 000242 020006 000000 044000 000000 000001 Unrecoverable disk error on DU0 PC=121232 PS=030341 OV=000022 M5=001600 M6=003242 SP=041274 R0=000000 R1=077777 R2=042125 R3=172150 R4=041410 R5=140026 Fatal RSTS/E system initialization error! Option: -------End. Now to me, this sounds like a bad hard drive, but I'm not at all familiar with this. If somebody could offer their opinion as to what's wrong here (and what to do about it) I'd be most appreciative. Thanks! Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 3 months

1
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North Star Horizon

by jonathan＠canuck.com

Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com>, a voice of desperation in this data wilderness, cried: >Looks like I'm getting a Northstar Horizon box come July. Friend of mine's holding it for me until I can get down south and pick it up. >Here's what I remember about Horizons: S100 bus, CP/M for an OS, built pretty well. >More info would be most welcome. My specialties for 'classic' systems are with DEC and Sun. Close. The Horizon was definitely one of the better-built and more reliable S100 boxes of the time. 10 slots (I think), and a little unusual in that the serial and parallel I/O were built into the motherboard. Most had a wood case. (I once had to replicate all that stuff on a wirewrap board for a client who needed more than 10 card slots and had to migrate to a Cromemco Z2 chassis while maintaining I/O compatibility. I also discovered with that system that their hard disk - a 14" 20(?)meg Century drive - suffered from serious read/write problems due to ground loops. Annoying but solvable. I digress...) CP/M was available, but not the stock OS. North Star (originally Kentucky Fried Computers - swear to god) designed their own unique floppy controller (it was their entry into the S100 market) and had a proprietary OS to go with it. The controller was a full S100 board to run the 5" drives alone, and the weird and difficult thing was that they used HARD sectored floppies, 10 sectors per track (not to be confused with the 16 sector floppies used by Micropolis). Jonathan

27 years, 3 months

3
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Apple II+ Problems

by tim＠thereviewguide.com

Hi. I recently got an Apple II+. OK, it's not the most exciting system in the world, but very cool in it's own respect. It's totally FULL of all kinds of add-in cards (including a AD/DA converter), and has 64K RAM. (48K+16K Pocket Rocket), etc. So basically, it's a nice II+, but more important to me is the add on cards, which probably hold tons of interesting secrets. There's a problem. MACHINE WILL NOT BOOT. I can turn it on, floppy spins, but I won't get a display. None at all. One possible reason is that the local power is 110v, 50hz, not 60, but the IIc works fine. It was also shipped here air freight, but once again, other computers work, but that doesn't prove anything. Ideas? Suggestions? Tim ******************************************** *Tim D. Hotze - Co-Founder, The ReviewGuide* *tim(a)thereviewguide.com * *http://www.thereviewguide.com * ********************************************

27 years, 3 months

3
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NortStar Dimension?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I'm sure someone here has heard of a NorthStar Dimension. Was it a PC compatible system? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/27/98]

27 years, 3 months

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test-drb