- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>As to the keyboard, the answer is a custom one... I have the HP150 >TechRef here, and if the keyboard connector is 6 pin (and not HP-HIL), >then it's an original HP150. Just to confirm, you have a CRT that doesn't >tilt in the case, and 2 expansion slots horizontally at the back, yes? Well... I wouldn't say it tilts _in_ the case, but it does have a tiltable stand. There are two horizontal expansion slots on the back - and - one of them has an HP-HIL interface card in it. >I have the schematic of the keyboard, and you're in luck. There's nothing >remotely custom in there. Not even a microcontroller or a ROM. It's all >plain 4000-series CMOS running at 12V... I'll respond to this part in the morning. :-) Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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OT? Help with Compaq Deskpro 486-33L

by hansp＠digiweb.com

I am helping a friend add a CDROM to his Compaq system. It has is an IDE cable but the driver that came with the CDROM does not recognize the drive. I suspect the IDE address and/or IRQ may not have been standard at that time. Does anyone have the tech specs on this compaq system? I've checked the Compaq support site and though there is some info it is not terribly helpful. Regards, -- Hans B Pufal Tel: +33 (0)476 12 90 24 /\ Field Application Engineer Mobile: +33 (0)607 71 77 02 /\/\ American Megatrends International <mailto:hansp@ami.com> _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc> Hans B Pufal Avigo developers resource <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/avigo> Hans B Pufal DEC PDP-9 Restoration Project <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/PDP9>

27 years, 3 months

1
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Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That was DEC, when they were first plugging Ultrix. It's basically a <New Hampshire license plate from the era. ("Live free or die" is the <New Hampshire state motto, the only notable quote from the commander Yes the same dec where a the teeshirt with: the slashed circle (no/not) with the letters "unix" in it. the caption was: unix, the unsystem never had it never will and the DIGITAL keys (white on blue blocks). Right after I got mine ATT got DOD to go with unix as a standard... Then all of a sudden unix was important. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
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micropolis 1355

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > The other cure is to open up the HDA and free the head manually. If you <> > do this in reasonably clean conditions (not necessarily a proper clean <> > room) then you should be OK. <> <> I've done that, but now it spins up, and after appr. 1 minute spins down <> again and spins up, .... < <Hmm... I've never seen one do that. The microcontroller is obviously <finding _something_ wrong, but no idea what (yet). The 13xx series has a rubber bumper the head actuator contacs when resting and from heat and age it gets sticky... the head can't seek as it's glued and the drive spins down. The fix is to unstick the head and somehow deal with the sticky material. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Almost OT: How can that be?

by zmerch＠30below.com

On or about 01:24 AM 1/15/99 -0500, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) was caught in a dark alley speaking these words: >On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> Mind you, it's not a whopping lot faster, but how it can be faster (by a >> few to five percent) is this: Larry Wall (who wrote Perl) optimized it in >> such a way that any ol' schmuck (like me) says "I could do this in C!!!" >> and does so, but not as efficiently as Larry did... therefore, code in Perl >> is faster than the reworked version in C. > >This isn't always true. 'Tis why I said *can* be faster... not *is*. :-) > When I wrote a de-artifacter for images captured >from a video source, I wrote it first in PERL to prove to myself the >algorithm I conceived would work; I used PERL because I am more familiar >with it than any other language. > >Later, I ported the program to C which netted me a dramatic performance >increase: 15 minute processing times dropped to around a minute, while >CPU usage during the processing dropped from 100% to about 30%. Certainly... but what does "perl" stand for? 2 answers: Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister... or Practical Extraction and Report Language The strong points of perl are its strong array & list processing capabilities and the file management commands. The former are where Perl gets it's speed, and the latter, while prolly slower than C, are much easier to code to do file manipulation. Sure, if a proggie needed 20 lines of C versus 20 lines of perl, sure C's gonna win. However, if your proggie relies heavily on perl's associative arrays, it'll be tough to program in C, let along program *more efficiently* in C... >This isn't to disparage PERL at all. I like PERL. There are some things >other languages are better suited for, though. Of course. Perl (for me) is best for that "quick & dirty" program. Get it done, and fast, and move on. Tho I use it more often than C, C certainly does have its advantages. ObCC: IMNSHO, Basic09 has more...... Neener, Neener... ;^> Off to DreamyLand, Roger "Merch" Merchberger ===== Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch(a)30below.com SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== for (1..15) { print "Merry Christmas\n"; } (from perl.1 man page, version 4.)

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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formatting gunk [Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00]

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

I never got so many nasty messages as this, and for what because I forgot a setting???Last i checked i was just human, but you never know i might be a system engineer and that would make me impervious to mistakes or something. Again i am sorry!!!!! Brian -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 10:01 PM Subject: Re: formatting gunk [Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00] >>Erm, are you speaking mailer as in mail *client* or mail *server*. If mail >>client, there should be a setting that states "Never send HTML." > >Mailer client. A pre-pre-release version of Outlook Express 5. > >There is such a setting, but it gets ignored (apparently) when replying to >an HTML message. > >Feel free to keep beating this dead horse. I'm sure everyone else on this >list cares. A lot. > >- Joe > >

27 years, 3 months

1
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Computers for children

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> This'll probably offend many. (followed by a description of a circa 1991 powerhouse system) Well, it has been shown that it's not any more challenging to learn UNIX than Windows than DOS than MS BASIC 2.0 if it's the first exposure to computers. I think that if it can be helped, a person's first exposure should be as encouraging of good computing habits as possible. This means not windows, and preferrably not macintosh. Just like many intelligent people like to say that a child should learn to do manual calculations before using a calculator, same with this. A child should get a proper introduction to computers. No child needs to be stuck with stupid paintbrush programs for four years before graduating to doom. I agree with a C-64, though that's not really to great either. I recommend either a UNIX/Linux system, because that will allow learning about networks and so on, or a machine like a PDP-8 or an Altair that would encourage really low-level tinkering. I hope no one here makes the decision to raise a Microserf!

27 years, 3 months

15
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formatting gunk [Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00]

by joebar＠microsoft.com

Sorry. I do have plain text set, but sometimes the mailer thinks it knows better than I do how my mail should be sent. Excuse me while I send off some nasty internal email about this issue (again). - Joe

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 3 months

5
5
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micropolis 1355

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: micropolis 1355 > Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 4:50 PM > > > > > Hi all, > > > > i got here a micropolis 1355 drive with my pdp, but the disc only spins up, > > and after few seconds down again. It happens again and again forever. like > > a jojo :-(( > > the power supply is ok. > > any ideas ? > > Yes... This is the most common failure with the 1300 series. The head > sticks to the rubber bumber inside the HDA and can't move to find the > home track. Thus the drive spins down. > > The other cure is to open up the HDA and free the head manually. If you > do this in reasonably clean conditions (not necessarily a proper clean > room) then you should be OK. I've done that, but now it spins up, and after appr. 1 minute spins down again and spins up, .... Dead ? thanks, emanuel

27 years, 3 months

3
3
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Journalism student looking for people with old computer collections

by mbg＠world.std.com

She's looking for people in the Ottowa area -- contact her directly - - - - - I'm a journalism student working on my final project before graduation: a documentary. I'm looking into the world of old computers as a possible subject. I'm specifically interested in meeting anyone who has a collection, or one very special old computer. Anyone interested in showing off their peices of computer history, please reply to this message. Sally Goldberg Journalism IV Carleton University -- Sally Goldberg 4th Year Journalism, Carleton University ch989(a)freenet.carleton.ca sgolber(a)chat.carleton.ca - - - - -

27 years, 3 months

1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

>I went, I saw, I don't beleive it either. When I was looking at it there >were ZERO bids, I wonder why. That's strange... I entered a bid of $12500.00 about half an hour ago. Damn, I hate it when eBay drops my bids like that. - Joe

27 years, 3 months

1
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Questions on today's acquisitions

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>::Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40. This is a lot like the TRS-80 >::PC-4 in appearance, but a bit bigger. It has BASIC in ROM and a >::connector for cartridges. Is there anything actually useful for this? >::THe keyboards too small to do any actual word processing. > >Got a picture? You can see a picture of one (not mine) at <http://pw1.netcom.com/~bcostin/cc_ticc40.htm>. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Slight OT| Ebay anti fraud measures

by wpe101＠banet.net

Cnet.com's e-commerce area currently has an article about new anti-fraud measures Ebay plans to implement. Will

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

> From: PCTech > Sorry about the HTML! I've been messing with the system and forgot to put it back on plain text. You're still sending HTML. And when I reply to an HTML message, my mailer defaults to HTML. Sigh. If you want to debug turning off HTML, you can send mail to me and I'll let you know when you have it turned off. - Joe

27 years, 3 months

1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

Sorry about the HTML! I've been messing with the system and forgot to put it back on plain text. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 Granted, but it's a much more *mundane* rip-off. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 Even at $85.00 thats a rip off. I have one that i would consider in mint condition with all the parts manuals and original box I got it for $12.95.They had that Osborne 1 on there for $5000.00 and i just got one for free.If these people dont want the stuff let the folks who want it to restore it or whatever HAVE IT. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 3 months

1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 3 months

3
2
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Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade)

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> silly assumptions about the machine (MS-DOS software often assumes that > the floppy drive is A: and the hard disk is C: - and refuses to let you > change this!). Or that misdetect the hardware I have (my enhanced CGA In fact, I've always found the limitations of DOS and PCs curious. Does anyone know why: *They refuse to boot from anything but A: or C: *DOS FDISK refuses to create more than 1 primary partition *DOS can't find an ATAPI cd-rom without a driver, even though it's an IDE device *Why we are limited to 2 floppy drives in DOS

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

Granted, but it's a much more *mundane* rip-off. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 Even at $85.00 thats a rip off. I have one that i would consider in mint condition with all the parts manuals and original box I got it for $12.95.They had that Osborne 1 on there for $5000.00 and i just got one for free.If these people dont want the stuff let the folks who want it to restore it or whatever HAVE IT. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Computers for children (soldering)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:13 AM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >Well, in grades 6-8 I was playing with exolosives. My friend and I >were interested in rockets, but we couldn't afford the Estes kits. [...] >a couple of burns, so did my partner, we were lucky because we didn't >always follow the rules that well -- making rocket fuel out of sugar When I was a kid (back before I learned that detectives didn't always escape to catch the bad guys like in the Hardy Boys) I had a book about a texas P.I. named (iirc) J.J.Armes. He was ironically named because as a boy he lost both hands while playing with dynamite. While I definitely understand the benefits of first-hand experience, I don't think I'd want any kids I know to have eyesight like mine just so they can learn for themselves. Part of the value of intelligence is that past experiences can be shared. Your 8-year-old doesn't need to get a soldering iron scar -- you can show her yours, and hopefully, that will be good enough for her. btw, something I find amusing is the idea that some folks have here that if it ain't the way it was done when they were kids, then by gummit, it just ain't no good. In some cases, that may very well be true. You won't find a vehicle available on the market today that can compare with my 40 year old Land Rover. But on the other hand, it's not stock either. It's got GPS, onboard laptop, wireless internet connection, dual batteries, chevy engine, overdrive, etc. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with books, but to say that's the only way to learn to read is like saying that newsletters should be hand-typed and reproduced on (what was it?) spiritusumdruckers! That guy on TV that builds things with only homemade tools is interesting, but I don't see too many contractors working that way. >(But I nowadays know enough first principals to get or make many of >the raw materials we used to buy at the drugstore, potassium nitrate >and several of its chemical cousins being among the main things our Why does this frighten me, Ward? 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy

by markr＠play.com

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this list. I've been collecting classic home console computers for about two years now and have some items to trade and some things I'm looking for (either trade or buy). You can check out my collection on my website at http://www.markrandall.com. Regards, Mark Randall Play Incorporated ====================== Classic Computers To Trade: ====================== Apple IIGS (full system with monitor/printer) Compaq Portable (original) IBM PC Jr. KayPro II KayPro IV Macintosh 128 (original) Radio Shack Color Computer Texas Instruments 99/4A ================================= Computers I'm Looking to Buy / Trade For: (Console Home Computers Only) ================================= Acorn BBC Micro Acorn Electron Amstrad CPC 6128 Amstrad CPC 664 Atari 65XE Atari 520ST Camputers Lynx Canon V-20 MSX Dragon 32 EACA Colour Genie EACA Video Genie 3003 (AKA System-80 / PMC 80) Exidy Sorcerer Franklin ACE 1200 Interact Model One Jupiter ACE Mattel Aquarius Memotek MTX 500/512 (or RS128) Oric 1 Oric Atmos Panasonic JR-200U Personal Micro Computer PMC 81 Phillips Videopac Salora Fellow Sharp MZ800 (MZ821) Sinclair QL Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair Spectrum + Sinclair Spectrum +2 / +2A / +3 SpectraVideo SVI 328 Sony HitBit Sord M5 Timex Sinclair 1500 Timex Sinclair 2068 Toshiba HX-10 Toshiba T100 Video Technology Laser Compact XT Video Technology VZ200 =============================== Computers Currently In My Collection (Pictures at http://www.markrandall.com) =============================== Amiga 500 Amiga 600 Amiga 1200 Amstrad 464 CPC Atari 400 Atari 800 Atari 600XL Atari 800XL Atari 1200XL Atari 130XE Atari 1040 ST Apple II Apple IIc Commodore 16 Commodore Plus/4 Commodore 64 Commodore 128 Commodore VIC 20 Laser 128 Radio Shack Color Computer Radio Shack Micro Color Computer (MC-10) Radio Shack Color Computer II (low rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer II (high rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer III Radio Shack Model 1 Sinclair ZX80 Sinclair ZX81 Tano Dragon 64 Texas Instruments 99/4A (gray/silver) Texas Instruments 99/4A (beige) Timex Sinclair 1000

27 years, 3 months

3
2
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

Even at $85.00 thats a rip off. I have one that i would consider in mint condition with all the parts manuals and original box I got it for $12.95.They had that Osborne 1 on there for $5000.00 and i just got one for free.If these people dont want the stuff let the folks who want it to restore it or whatever HAVE IT. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 3 months

1
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Questions on today's acquisitions

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

Made a few purchases today, and have questions on them all: HP 150 with an HP 9133 expansion chassis. Anybody know what kind of keyboard this takes? It has a 6 prong telephone style connector. Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40. This is a lot like the TRS-80 PC-4 in appearance, but a bit bigger. It has BASIC in ROM and a connector for cartridges. Is there anything actually useful for this? THe keyboards too small to do any actual word processing. MPP-1150 Parallel Printer Interface by Supra Corporation. This has a parallel connector on the one end and a strange 13 pin connector which looks something like this: _______ |_______| /_______\ on the other end. Does anybody know what computer this goes to? And lastly, I have a single IC in a bag labeled "printer". The chip says "NEC RI8739-I35 D2332C 374". Does anybody know what this is? Anybody want it? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 3 months

4
3
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Questions on today's acquisitions

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40. This is a lot like the TRS-80 > PC-4 in appearance, but a bit bigger. It has BASIC in ROM and a > connector for cartridges. Is there anything actually useful for this? > THe keyboards too small to do any actual word processing. I have one of these too. TI supposedly made a thermal printer, an RS-232 interace, and a 70KB tape drive, which would plug in to the six-pin BERG connector on the back, next to the power jack. I use it as a programmable scientific calculator.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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biofeedback (was: Computers for children (soldering))

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:49 PM 1/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >> ObCC: I seem to recall somebody producing a biofeedback device for the > >Ooo... now THERE would be a cool thing to get my hands on... anyone know >anything about these or have one gathering dust? There was also one for the 8-bit ataris and (iirc) TRS-80's (Cocos?). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Which comes first?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

I was talking wiht another programmer recently and we considered the question of whether science drives science fiction, or vice-versa. I think that while it probably goes both ways, to some extent, the real pathway is: Science Fiction --> Research Labs --> Consumer Electronics --> Science Fiction. An example that comes to mind is a story I read (can't remember what or who, but perhaps Hogan?) wherein a character sat down and unrolled the screen of his powerbook 9999. I just read (Microtimes?) that someone has come up with a flexible LCD screen which may be used at some point in such a device. I'm not sure what this has to do with classic computers, but I decided to post it anyway. Lot less off-topic than some stuff lately. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
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Direct Neuro Coupling (was: Computers for children (soldering))

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:10 PM 1/14/99 -0600, you wrote: >I guarantee that some time in the future, an alternative pathway will be: > computer =electrical impulse=> brain > >and you won't be able to tell the difference. Check out James Hogan's Bug Park (not the first book to use the idea, just the most recent I've read, and one of my two favorite authors.) Obcc: Hogan used to be a salesrep(?) for DEC and his books include fairly realistic computers and such, and kinda obviously DEC. (And, iirc, Apple II's in earlier books?) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
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OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children)

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> This is definitely off-topic (who was that said I was single-minded?) but > for a fine example of bletcherousness, try the source to the pine mailer > (here also known as pain, or Pain In Neck Email). Find the 70K source file > that handles the main mail stuff, and try 'grep goto' - and watch three or > four screenfulls scroll by. All in one function (the 70K file is almost > all one function). Besides for this example, what do you feel is wrong with PINE? What do you prefer? I would like to know since I'm an inexperienced Linux user, and this is on-topic since PINE is over 10 years old.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 16, 3:05, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > Remember, C has a goto statement, although I don't think in my nearly 10 > > years of C programming I've ever used it, although on certain rare > > occasions it seemed the easy way out to a sticky coding problem. I think I've used it once -- and then removed it again. > Perhaps it's my own biases here (coming with 9 years of solid C coding) > but if you have more than one conditional test in an `if' or `while' > statment, you may be doing something wrong. Also, if you're so deeply > nested that you need a `goto' to get out of trouble, then again, you may be > doing something wrong. If you are nested about four levels deep in a > function, you may be doing something wrong. Don't be afraid to use lots of > functions, each doing one thing and one thing only. This applies to any > language really. This is definitely off-topic (who was that said I was single-minded?) but for a fine example of bletcherousness, try the source to the pine mailer (here also known as pain, or Pain In Neck Email). Find the 70K source file that handles the main mail stuff, and try 'grep goto' - and watch three or four screenfulls scroll by. All in one function (the 70K file is almost all one function). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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PS/2 Mouse drivers

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

Does anyone here know where I can get drivers for using a PS/2 mouse with DOS programs like a normal serial mouse? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Computers for children (soldering)

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Nowadays, of course, it's difficult to > get many of the books or raw materials we used back in the Sixties. Actually, I have a small packet on how to build a 'sugar rocket', which I ordered for something like $20 a few years ago. I never built anything, but sometime, I ought to try. The same company also has a full-blown book on making rocket engines.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Stupid CP/M question

by drbilling＠ucdavis.edu

At 08:03 PM 1/15/99 +1, you wrote: > ... >> The first hard disk was made by IBM around 1956, and I assume it didn't >> take them much longer to write a DOS for it, but I don't know when they >> did or what it was called. > >Didn't they already use the term DOS ? The first commercially available IBM disk system was the IBM 305 RAMAC, but I believe the disk was just a peripheral device like a tape drive, not a system disk like we view it today. There certainly was no operating system stored on the disk and I doubt they even stored a program on the disk. It was pretty small electronically although it was physically huge, and incredibly slow because it only had one read/write head that had to be moved >from disk platter to disk platter. Since all IBM computers of the era, the 700's and 7000's were punch card fed machines, the programs were stored on punched cards and loaded each time they were to be run. Tape drives held intermediate results and input and output data, but not programs. At some point the the 7000 series life I believe there was a primitive "Tape Operating System", or TOS, developed so that once a program was debugged, the compiled binary version could be stored on tape, and a punch card "IPL" program could read that tape, load the program and then the machine would continue on just as if it had read the program from punched cards. After the 305 RAMAC was designed, a disk drive that I believe was called the 2305 was developed and it was hooked to the 7000 series machines. At some time around 1964 IBM coupled a 2305 to a 7044 which had a Direct Couple interface to a 7094 and used the 7044 to stage and control program loading on the 7094. A primitive "DOS" was developed called IBSYS, but all it did was que programs and data on the disk to be run on the 7094, one program at a time. This greatly minimized operator setup time and kept the very expensive 7094 humming. I don't think it was until the delivery of the S/360, in the 1968 time frame, that IBM had an operating system that they called DOS, but maybe there is an IBM expert in the group that could comment. -- db =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dean Billing Phone: 530-752-5956 UC Davis FAX: 530-752-6363 IT-CR EMAIL: drbilling(a)ucdavis.edu One Shields Way Davis, CA 95616

27 years, 3 months

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paper -> HTML (and The First PC)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:49 AM 12/30/98 -0600, you wrote: > 1) do a color scan to grab images > 2) clean up images > 3) resize based on guess at a good size and res for web pages Don't think you can do much about these steps. I usually shoot for 320x240 pixels for web images -- on most monitors that's about 4" by 3" or so. It used to be (not sure if this is still true) that the default width for netscape on the mac gave you 400 pixels across; I believe on the PC it was 480? (I'll have to dig up that article again.) Also, that's a manageable size for downloads. Anyway, on a 640x480 screen, you lose some width for scroll bars and all; plus you need a border/margin... Sure, you can design your web pages for 800x600, if you don't care that most people won't be able to see it all at once. > 4) scan again as B/W line art > 5) OCR > 6) clean up OCR > 7) create HTML combining OCR'd text and images > >I don't much like PDF for web docs, so an HTML solution would be best. It >looks like the "pro" version of Xerox's OCR software might automate the >task somewhat. Any recommendations? Well, your main issue is getting the text into machine-readable format. My current belief is the best way (especially for lower quality originals) is to read them into a word processor using dragon dictate or similar. Once you've got a text file, there are several options to get them HTML'ized, including things like MS Word, and HTML editors. (I prefer doing it manually.) Depending on what you're doing, a CGI program that reads/formats text files, inserting images as necessary, might be the way to go. (See http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/index2.htm) for an example.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

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Stupid CP/M question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<While I realize that it would not have been possible to make <their graphics part of the standard OS for a PDP-11, I <was led to believe that the PR0 350/380 had access to <their bit mapped screen displays. While doing such <manipulations was likely discouraged, is that a true POS did have a color and somewhat graphical display (menus on color screen) that was far from being graphics like most describe. Also the Graphical part was really not inherent to the basic OS, IE: no mouse or other object linking or support. The PRO350 also was contemporary to the PC XT making it a mid life PDP-11 based system. While -11s were used for graphics most of the serious work really required specialized hardware and programming support not generally available at the time. <Also, I understand that the first RT-11 was released about <1973. >When was the first CP/M released? 1974 (late) and was based loosely on Tops10, RT-11 and OS/8 (DEC Command line styles). > And the first DOS? Before 1970! Dos for PC was 1981ish. TRSdos was '78ish, NS* dos was late '76. DOS used to be a generic as well for "disk operating system". Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Stupid CP/M question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<As I recall, some of original Star War's movie graphics were done on a <PDP11. I don't think so. They used masks and other film tricks. someone else can comment. Though the -11 had graphics. It was more that any graphics were not supported by the OS and the hardware to do that was likely as big as the machine itself and not anywhere near real time. Graphics need lots of ram and lots of disk neither of which where common then nor cheap. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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selling a blank floppy disk

by eric＠brouhaha.com

For my very first eBay auction, I managed to sell a single blank floppy disk for $22.00: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=51510929 Of course, it wasn't your average, run-of-the-mill diskette; it was a classic, or I wouldn't be talking about it here. :-) Happy New Year! Eric [If I hear one more person joking about partying tonight like it's 1999, I think I may go postal.]

27 years, 3 months

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TI99: Re: SCSI devices

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I was going under the assumption, probably a false one, that all <"parallel" ports that were able to talk to a printer w/ a centronics <connector, conformed to a standard, and that a parallel zip drive <needed nothing above and beyond that to work. Of course figuring out how <to talk to the drive is another story as well. Severely untrue. PCs use a simple port with little to no hardware handshaking, however many other use hardware hand shaking so there are few if any readable lines for data return. Few non pc system implement a bidirection or EPP port and that is not require to do basic centronics interface. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Dapple computer

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

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27 years, 3 months

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Almost OT: How can that be?

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> Oh, and when I called it an "interpreter," that's a misnomer. It may look, >> walk, talk, and smell like an interpreter, but it's actually a JIT compiler >> in disguise... that's why it's so darned fast in comparison to an interpreter. > > Actually, it compiles to an internal byte code that can be interpreted > faster than parsing text, much like Forth or even Java. In my experience, very few interpreters actually parse text in real time. Every BASIC I've used AFAIK reduces keywords to byte codes at the time of entry, and some actually encode numbers etc. at the same time. Notable exception: I think REXX parses text in real time, or did when I used it under VM/CMS. Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:37 PM 1/14/99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Remember, C has a goto statement, although I don't think in my nearly 10 >years of C programming I've ever used it, although on certain rare >occasions it seemed the easy way out to a sticky coding problem. > [...] but C really suffers from a lack of >a general error trapping mechanism that one can invoke to break out of >loops as required. Sometimes I think goto's are the answer but I can >never find an appropriate way to implement it. I use "goto" in C on a regular and consistent basis for error exceptions: USHORT firstFunction( void ) { USHORT lerr; if ((lerr=secondFunction()) != TE_NOERROR) { goto out; } out: return lerr; } The benefit is that all functions propogate an error code, any function can fail, and all functions clean up after themselves after their "out" label. - John

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Tony and all, At 10:44 PM 1/14/99 +0000, you wrote: >I would strongly disagree with that, at least in hardware. I've recently >been looking at some discrete-transistor logic circuits and the >creativity that went into their design (IMHO) exceeds anything that I've >seen done with modern 'black-box' chips. For example, I've seen a >keyboard encoder (8*8 matrix of keys to 6 bit binary + strobes + ...) in >about 20 transistors and as many diodes. Much, much more elegant than >throwing a microcontroller at it. > Yes, for example the Popular Electronics keyboard in ~1974 by Don Lancaster and Southwest Technical Products used a few inverters (RTL) and transistors. 3 transistors sensed which of 8 columns a keyswitch was pressed, and these 3 transistors produced 3 of the ASCII output bits. The 8 row ouyputs produced 3 other bits. Much easier to "fix" than the MOS encoder chip, if that chip was programmed for a custom matrix, such as the Heath H19 terminal. -Dave

27 years, 3 months

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Dapple computer

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I was digging thru the junk ^H^H^H^H er, ah, treasures at my favorite scrap dealers a few days ago and found what looked like an Apple IIe except it was marked "Dapple (something) IIe". I've never heard of a Dapple computer before. Is there anyone that collects Apple clones and wants it? Joe

27 years, 3 months

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power supply for Zenith supersport sx laptop

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I have this Zenith supersport sx laptop (386, black and white screen i think) but no power supply.. The label on teh bottom of the unit states that it wants 16.5 volts, 2 amps... The power connector is one of those small round plugs, and it has a DC noted next to the plug. Does anyone know where I could find a compatible power supply? -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

27 years, 3 months

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Old ISA Riser card on a Pentium?

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

Kirk Davis >Hey, don't forget that $100 Atari Belt buckle (only one at >that price!!!) :-) Perhaps you would be interested in a once in a lifetime offer of an Amiga CD32 umbrella (never used), or a chocolate tea pot, or... Anyway, does anyone have experience with Riser ISA cards. I have one salvaged from a Viglen 25MHz 486 and want to connect it to a Pentium 2. The Riser card has 6 ISA ports.

27 years, 3 months

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Computer paint jobs (was Re: SOL feeding frenzy?)

by Watzman＠ibm.net

This may or may not be a description of your situation, but when I worked at Heath/Zenith, we bought "Gold" floppy disk drives directly from the manufacturers of the drives (Shugart, Tandon, etc.) that were painted gold for use as duplicators in producing the commercially sold software (operating systems, languages and applications). These were hand-calibrated drives with essentially perfect alignment. Not saying that this is what you have, but it is possible. Barry Watzman ---------- From: Bill Sudbrink [SMTP:bill@chipware.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 10:39 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Computer paint jobs (was Re: SOL feeding frenzy?) In one of the Ohio Scientific C2's I have, the face plate of one of the 8 inch floppies has been painted gold! The rest of the unit was classic tan/brown and the guy I got it from had no idea why.

27 years, 3 months

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classic computer stuff in Scientific American

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Lawrence Walker" <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> wrote: > I have that edition in my collection. I have 2 other S.A.s > that have micro themes. The Nov. 65 issue, one of the articles is > by Hao Wang , and the Sept 66 which is all computer related > articles And I think Scientific American re-published the September 1966 issue as a book, "Information". -Frank McConnell

27 years, 3 months

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hello

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Hi. I've just joined your mailing list. Currently I'm working on getting a Cromemco Z2 system with dual 8" DSDD drives setup. I have cp/m 2.2 and CDOS. Unfortunately, I have no docs, except a cp/m 2.2 manual I downloaded from the web. If anyone has a similar system, and can make a cp/m 3.0 8" floppy, i'd appreciate it. My plans are to attempt to rewire a Teac 5.25" floppy drive to make it appear to be a DSDD 8" floppy drive. I have several Terak computers in need of serious work. These were computers that would break down frequently back when they were in service back in tehe 80's, so they break down after being 'repaired' (the contacts seem to go flakey, both on teh boards and mainly on the socketed ram chips). If anyone has any technical information on the Terak floppy controller, or on the shugart 800 floppy drives in the Terak, i'd like to have a copy. preferrably I would want to setup my 5.25 floppy drive so it can be used on either computer system, but the Terak uses a 40 pin ribbon cable, skipping pins 1-10 on the shugart drive. I'm curious as to which connectors on teh interface cable are actually necessary for the Terak floppy controller to operate properly. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

27 years, 3 months

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Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Hi Everyone, > > I'm new to this list. I've been collecting classic home console computers > for about two years now and have some items to trade and some things I'm > looking for (either trade or buy). You can check out my collection on my > website at http://www.markrandall.com. Hi Mark. Afraid I haven't time to look at your website just now, but your list looks impressive. Since you're new here, I feel I should tell you: one thing you must remember on this list, if you are offering anything for sale or trade, YOU MUST SAY WHERE YOU ARE. Looking at your list of your collection and your list of wanted stuff suggests you are not in the UK (as I am), but probably somewhere in the US. But more than that I can't tell, and it may be important! Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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Osborne 01 for only $5000.00

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:27 PM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >went for 2.7 Million, with an addition 305k being paid in commission >by the purchaser... A far cry from 7 Mil... For values of x, where x = my bank balance, 3mil * x = 7mil * x. It's all the same to me. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

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Altair kits??

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 10:36 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >>QUESTION - to any of the folks out there who >>put these kits together originally... >>Is this the way you received them from MITS? >>With the front panel and/or the power supply >>pre-wired and assembled? I never built one from a kit but what I have been told MANY times is that the front panel and PS were customer assembled and the front panel was an absolute BITCH to build! Seems there was a mess of wires running from all those front panel swiches to the motherboard and it was hell to get them all connected correctly and to work in among all of them. Joe

27 years, 3 months

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eBay item

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

here is an adam computer system http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=54946307

27 years, 3 months

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A new Altair record price

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

$6710.00 Wow! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=52822778 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 3 months

7
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Computers for children (soldering)

by mbg＠world.std.com

My worst run-in with a soldering iron was when I was doing some work at my father's emergency-lighting plant *man* years ago. They used real industrial strength soldering irons (the metal body was about 1" diameter and the tip was a 4-sided point which was easily about 1/4" diameter). Well, I had placed the iron in its holder, and was reaching for something else when I caught the cord and the iron started to fall... my instinctual reaction was to reach out and grab for it, which I did... grabbing it firmly with my hand... quickly turning most of my palm and the anterior surface of all my fingers and thumb into seared tissue... I never did that again... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children (soldering)

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>Worst burn I ever got from a soldering iron was when somebody tripped >over the mains lead. The iron was dragged through my hand and I was left >gripping the metal shaft. OUCH!. I have also had a fair # of burns in similiar manners but the one thing I would suggest for children is to wear glasses. When I was 9 or10 I was desoldering something when some solder splattered into the tissue in the corner of my eye. 1/4 inch over and it could have been serious. I almost always now make sure I am wearing glasses. Dan

27 years, 3 months

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Manual wanted: NorthStar FPB-A Board

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Was just going thru a stack of boards from a recent acqusition, and discovered a NorthStar FPB-A S-100 Floating Point board. Looks like a good addition for my Horizon system, and it even came with the paper tape of NorthStar BASIC with FPB support. What it did not show up with was a manual, and it is only partially assembled. Anyone have a spare they could part with, or can carve a copy? I'd like to try and get this thing running. Also, if anyone has a copy of the disk based BASIC with FPB support, I'd like to nab a copy of that as well. Thanks; -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 3 months

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Wowzers - Looking for parts?

by brett＠xnet.com

------------------ Cut from Web Page ------------------------------- MOTHERBOARDS for COMMODORE VIC-20, the ever-poplar 5K memory color computer which still has a dedicated following. All components intact. "Some worked, some didn?t" when we powered-up a sampling and so we are selling them "AS-IS." Good source of spare parts or, if your a gambler, the basis for cheap computer; 3 lbs. sh. Two versions to choose: #VIC-01981, eleven 2114 RAM; 9 VAC req. $7.50 #VIC-01983 with two M58725 2Kx8 RAM or equal; requires 9 VAC and 5 VDC, $6.50 COMMODORE C-16 KEYBAORD, originally p/o the C-16 computer---a short-lived transition computer between the VIC and C64. By switching a few wires, it will work with VIC on most keys. Change info included. 5x15x1.5; 3 lbs. sh. #KB-C16 $3.00 (If purchased w/ VIC board $1.50) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh - you want to know WHICH Web Page 8-) Beleive it or not - Fair Radio - out of Lima Ohio http://www2.wcoil.com/~fairadio/module.html BC

27 years, 3 months

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Rick Fish and the Lego Adding Machine

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

A web search turned up a reference on the Cheapass Games web site (apparently really good games, if you like that sort of thing) to a lego adding machine. I thought it might be the same as the one I had found previously (that has since disappeared) but even though it isn't, it is very interesting. Enjoy! >No, I don't think Rick's adding machine was ever up on a web site. > >I was co-designer of the model, and I can give you a description of how >it works. > >The "Fish/Ernest" ;) adding machine was essentially a stack of binary >half-adders, powered by marbles. We got as far as designing the guts of >the thing, but never made the outsides (marble tracks are sort of >academic) so much of the device was hypothetical. But the guts worked. > >The half-adder itself starts with a hole through which a marble is >dropped. This marble will toggle the half-adder with one of two possible >results: > >1: If the half-adder is "on" (a flag attached to the gear mechanism is >up, representing a digit of 1) then the digit will turn off and the >marble will proceed to the next lower half-adder as a carryover bit. > >2: If the half-adder is "off" (the flag is down, representing a digit of >0) then the flag will be raised, and the marble will go into a waste >chute. > >A stack of these half-adders can be read from bottom to top, with the top >flag representing the 1's place, the second the 2's place, the third the >4's place, and so on. Each layer is about 7 bricks high, or roughly 3 1/2 >inches. > >The whole thing is gravity-powered, and you "charge" it by dumping a >handful of marbles into a holding pen at the top. You can input marbles >one at a time at the top, but we also designed a set of fingers that >would push marbles from lower holding racks into the appropriate digits >in the machine; for example, to add nine, one could push in the "1" and >"8" fingers simultaneously, and everything will fall out successfully. >This was probably the neatest thing about the machine. > >The waste chutes were designed to conserve energy by funneling waste >marbles into the holding racks for the next level. > >Of course, the machine had only the binary output, and could only add. >But it was still pretty neat. > >Anyway, that was longer than I thought. Hope it's as interesting for you >as it was for us. > >Best wishes, > > >-James Ernest >-Cheapass Games > >>Hi! I was wondering if you could do me a favor and as Rick Fish if he is >>the guy who used to have a web page about his Lego Adding Machine at >>http://legowww.homepages.com/projects/adding/project2.html? >> >>I am a collector of older computers, and there has been some discussion of >>late on a classic computer mailing list about early mechanical computers >>(such as the Digi-Comp 1). As part of this discussion, someone brought up >>a Tinkertoy Tic-Tac-Toe machine, and I recalled seeing a lego adding machine. >> >>Unfortunately, the link I had is no longer valid, but a web search found >>the cheapass games staff picnic page where Rick Fish is listed as having >>created a Lego adding machine. Even if he is not the person who had the >>above-mentioned page, I (and others) would love to hear about his calculator. >> >>In any case, thanks in advance! >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- >> >>Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >>roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >>San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

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Poly 88 Docs

by dogas＠leading.net

Doug, I got all the H8 stuff you'll ever need... will copies suffice. I'll check and see what dups I have.... What are you looking for? I'd like at least a copy of the Poly 88 stuff. No papertape stuff (you lucky bastage) Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)ooga.com> >I have available the following original Poly 88 docs for trade: > Volume I: Assembly, Test, and Theory of Hardware (1976, 52pp) > Addendum to Volume I: Serial Option (1976, 14pp) > Cassette Interface Minicard (1977, 44pp) > Memory Addressing, Vectored Interrupt, and Serial I/O (32pp) > Volume II: Operation and Software (1976, 100+pp) > >I need Heathkit H8 docs, but I'd also consider other pre-1977 micro docs >in trade. I'm also looking for H8 software on papertape (copies are >fine). > >-- Doug > > >

27 years, 3 months

2
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micropolis 1355

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi all, i got here a micropolis 1355 drive with my pdp, but the disc only spins up, and after few seconds down again. It happens again and again forever. like a jojo :-(( the power supply is ok. any ideas ? thanks, emanuel

27 years, 3 months

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Everybody see the Altair kit on EBay?

by bill＠chipware.com

Partially assembled: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=52822778

27 years, 3 months

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PDP 11/23 advice

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Just found a free PDP 11/23 which I'll be picking up tomorrow, and a VT220. I know nothing at all about this machine - are there precautions I should take before shifting it? Drive parking or some such? Are there any hard to find extras that I should ask about before collecting it? Thanks for any help the list members may provide. As you can tell, this is quite urgent - about 18 hours before I pickup. The guy also has 6 free Sparcstation SLCs - I didn't bags those - maybe I should?! A

27 years, 3 months

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FT: Poly 88 Docs

by museum＠techniche.com

Hi Doug, I have an H-8 (with another on the way) with absolutely complete docs (including the sales slip). I don't think I have much in the way of paper tape though. Contact me. Jon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >I have available the following original Poly 88 docs for trade: > Volume I: Assembly, Test, and Theory of Hardware (1976, 52pp) > Addendum to Volume I: Serial Option (1976, 14pp) > Cassette Interface Minicard (1977, 44pp) > Memory Addressing, Vectored Interrupt, and Serial I/O (32pp) > Volume II: Operation and Software (1976, 100+pp) > >I need Heathkit H8 docs, but I'd also consider other pre-1977 micro docs >in trade. I'm also looking for H8 software on papertape (copies are >fine). > >-- Doug > > >

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by joebar＠microsoft.com

>Now, though, it appears that most [Lego] sets contain special parts for whatever >model that set is supposed to build, parts that aren't much use for >anything else. Seems not to encourage imagination anything like as much. I know what you mean... but my son (6) does manage to find many new uses for the "special parts", combining insectoid legos and aquatic legos and everything else to form really interesting creations. Somehow it seems to parallel the trend in programming... the components that you build out of just get more elaborate, but that doesn't necessarilly mean that programming today is less creative, it's just that you're building at a different level... - Joe (your friendly neighborhood Microserf)

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > I wouldn't call FOR..NEXT low level. I'd call it a high level > construction based on the low-level GOTO. What I meant was, in the early BASICs, you would have to type out the FOR loop with a variable, an increment, a conditional statement, and a goto. In the later BASICs, you don't have to type it out, and it's also a lot easier to understand that the NEXT X must be going back to that FOR X= 1 TO 10 I saw a while ago, as opposed to scrolling incessantly trying to find where each GOTO leads. I don't know exactly at what point the FOR...NEXT gets translated into its components, but the point is, since it doesn't have to be typed out, it's somewhat lower-level. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:33 PM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >> Obcc: Yes, you can build computers and calculators from Lego. Any reason >> why you couldn't replicate a Digi-Comp with Lego? > >A Digi-Comp built with Lego blocks would be huge and fragile, plus >those vertical metal rods would have to be fabricated. When I had my The Mindstorms kit includes some long-ish axle pieces which might work. There are probably other ways of doing it as well. You're just not being creative enough. (Check out the web sites I posted previously -- one includes a lego computer that looks kinda like a digi-comp (in a uninitiated, unobservant kinda way.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:00 AM 1/14/99 +0000, you wrote: >> But to say that a kid should not be introduced to computers until they can >> read enough to use unix or can handle a soldering iron is to do a major >> disservice to the kid. > >Why? > >I'm disputing the word 'major', BTW. It's possible that some 18-month old >kids will enjoy looking at coloured patches on a computer screen. But I >don't think that _not_ showing them that will cause any form of permanent >damage. I made an assumption (at least I think I wrote that) that a reasonable computer was available. To say, I've got this computer which could help the kid learn to learn better, develop logical skills, and even learn to read and understand math, but I'm not going to let the kid use it because it's a windoze machine and I want the kid to be a Unix guru" is a major disservice. Same as saying "I've got a TV and Sesame Street and National Geographic comes on sometimes, but I'm not gonna let the kid watch those because someday they might want to watch teenage morphin' ninja turle soup with Howard Stern." Another grave disservice. And another analogy: You could say "Sure, I've got a major library next door, but I'm not gonna let the kid go there because it might read the gatekeeper's monologue from Macbeth where he talks about hookers and drunkenness." I'm not saying that every parent has to go out and buy their kid a computer, or that the kid will turn stupid without it, but if you've got the resources, use 'em. Remember, that being a parent means subjugating your own desires for the benefit of the kid. You have to give up a lot for that kid, and that may include a no-Winblows rule, or worse. Hell, you might even have to miss a football game now and then. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
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micro PDP-11 "Fatal RSTS/E system initialization error!"

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

> Ouch! That's nasty. The reason RSTS can't recover is because it's block 1. > > You'll need to reinstall RSTS if you want to use it. Drop me a private >E-mail. I may be able to help. Hi Bruce, Thanks for the info. I'd would like to get the unit running. Will reinstalling RSTS definately do it, or could the hard drive need replaced, as well? I'm assuming I'll need the RSTS disks on 5.25" to reinstall RSTS. Is that something I can get for a reasonable price? Thanks, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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IBM Resuces

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Today I have saved from the Skip/Tip/Dumpster two items of IBM manufacture, about which I know even less than the Prime 550-II I'm trying to get working. To wit: An IBM 9404 processor, at least that's what I make it out to be, since it's front panel has IPL settings, a QIC-1000, and attached to the back are several 8-channel Twinax adapter cables. A p-Touch type label on the side says 'XS400' The ID plate also says its release level is V2R2MO and its PIF Level is C2261220. With it, though perhaps systemically unrelated, is an IBM 3174-1R, obviously a terminal controller of some sort. It has two 5 1/4 floppies and a niche for storing the diskettes, and there are three of them, marked by printed IBM label for this machine. Also there was a complete (non-IBM) PBX-type voicemail system, but that I know something about and can get on the air. (Sam: its a VMX D.I.A.L.) I am curious to know if anyone is familiar with the IBM stuff and even more curious to know if anyone *wants* the two.. I sure don't. They are not terrifically heavy and thus shippable... hint hint hint. I could not bear to see them go off the loading dock into Oblivion. Cheerz and Thanks to all for the Prime help so far. This weekend I'll have time to research more on my own. NOTE to Prime-familiar folk who may be reading this: I will buy PR1ME engineering/maintenance docs related to the hardware I have; or copies of same. 250/550 series. John

27 years, 3 months

4
3
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OT: Need Sun/Linux advice

by nerdware＠laidbak.com

I know this is probably OT, so you can email me off-list if you can help. I need some advice from some experienced Sun folks. I have the opportunity to pick up a 3/80 and an IPC. I need someone to help me find docs or help me with hookup/boot procedures. I am a complete newbie to Suns, and would like to try running Linux. I can't find any specs on the 3/80 as far as internal architecture, so that would be a good starting point. I know I'm jumping on a pretty steep learning curve, but I want to play with a real OS. Let me know, please. I appreciate the help. Thanks. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware(a)laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware

27 years, 3 months

4
3
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Berkeley Enterprises 1956 Report

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 01:29 AM 1/11/99 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: > >I have the plans for Magdum, and it's about 30 pages of hand-drawn >schematics. Does anybody know of a way to convert a raster scan of this >kind of stuff to some sort of vectorized format (maybe EPS)? There are methods of scanning blueprints and converting them to CAD formats, but these programs are expensive and esoteric, and I'm not sure how much hand-drawing they tolerate. There are common methods of auto-tracing for illustration purposes. PhotoShop, for example, can trace a bitmap and export the path as an Adobe Illustrator file, a form of EPS. However, these AI/EPS files are ASCII, meaning they'll take up as much (or more) space than a mono TIFF. What's your objective? Distribution of the images? I say leave them as scans. Autotracing and cleanup of 30 pages would consume days. How would you view EPS/AI files? Tools for viewing and printing bitmaps are far more common and easier to use than tools that handle EPS/AI. (I know about Ghostscript.) - John

27 years, 3 months

6
5
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PDP 11/23 advice

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> Are there any hard to find extras that I should ask about before collecting it? I'm now a pdp'er yet (my 23 compatible comes in this weekend) but recent discussions indicate that you should grab *all* ancillary stuff for the dec, especially.... the RT-11 manuals! worth, oh... about.... $1,300.00 ( and if you do, please drop me some email. ;)) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
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PDP-8/e Simulator for the Mac

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

If you have a Macintosh and are interested in DEC Hardware I heartily recommend the following URL http://www.han.de/~bb/pdp8e/pdp8e.html If you've not downloaded Bernhard Baehr's PDP-8/e simulator recently it's gotten REALLY cool. He's added a front panel, that is just to cool for words :^) For example, when you turn the key to the 'off' position, it shuts the simulator down. You can flip switches and watch the blinken lights :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Computers for children

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Spaghetti code is caused by bad programmers, not bad programming >languages. Well said...!

27 years, 3 months

1
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TI99: Hard drive partitions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<on disk size supported (say number of 256-byte logical sectors), a more <robust (economical, speedy) disk structure could be developed. < <If we allowed a 32-bit logical sector pointer, then 2^32*2^8 bytes could <be stored. That is 2^40 bytes total. Since 2^20 bytes is 1 Meg, a 32-bit <logical sector pointer allows 1 megamegabyte. 2^30 bytes is 1 Gig, and <2^10 is 1024. Therefore, 2^40 bytes is 1024 Gig. < <I think a 32-bit pointer would be sufficient for a while. Most drives <available are under 20 Gig. Several key items. Most more recient disks are 512byte sectors. Even with 16bit pointer using clustering 512k is not unreasonable, though maybe inefficient. Using a 24bit pointer and 512b sectors will net 8gb, adaquate. The problem (pardon my lack of knowledge of the TI Filesystem) is that simply having a point of some size is only part of the problem. You also need to have a descriptor for how many sectors are owned by the file in question. If the file system is a simple sequential one an additional two or three bytes are adaquate. Generally though a sequential allocation scheme is inefficient for random file access. A random file access scheme means multiple descriptors for each block (assuming multipe scetor granularty). Obviously in that case you can really consume space in the directory with a desicriptor per block. This leads to FAT or ALLOCATION style of file systesm (dos and cpm respectively) or something like unix uses. I'm suggesting that more bits extend greater addressing but impose other impacts not mentioned. Allison

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:06 PM 1/13/99 +0000, you wrote: >Now, though, it appears that most sets contain special parts for whatever >model that set is supposed to build, parts that aren't much use for >anything else. Seems not to encourage imagination anything like as much. Depends on what sets you buy. You can buy sets that build one specific model (though you can of course do whatever you want) or you can buy the tubs of 1000 pieces for $20. I have been known to buy specific models to get some odd part that I thought was cool, but generally I'll take the general purpose models. Obcc: Yes, you can build computers and calculators from Lego. Any reason why you couldn't replicate a Digi-Comp with Lego? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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y2k stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<<< I've come across enough machines that use 6-bit characters internally.. < < 6 Bit ? thats new - I never have seen a 6 Bit byte computer - I < know 6 Bit only from some serial line encodings. Most common one was the PDP8. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Computers for children

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>I agree that what you propose is a good thing for a kid to have, >but it's a completely different topic - using the computer as a >general purpose learning tool, or playing on a computer. What >we were talking about was playing *with* a computer. > >|For programming, I would recommend BASIC, TO START WITH, followed by an >|introduction to C and assembly as soon as basic principles are understood. > >I've yet to see a BASIC that runs on top of an OS that's as >easy to get into and provides direct feedback as well as a >graphical BASIC DOS. Apparently you have not tried Visual Basic... > >|Once the kid has gotten thoroughly into it, THEN maybe a birthday present >|of a set of Linux disks? > >Hah. My kids started on Linux, at about 8 and 10. Yeah, I >intend to (God help me) get a Win or Mac system soon, but >only because there are too many things not yet available on >Linux. > >But Linux is just fine as a newbie OS for a kid. At what level are you talking? I have not seen any sofware for kids (like the knowledge adventure or humongous entertainment series) that would run on Linux. It is hard to get a kid used to play with windows for 6 years and tell him that it is crap and the one where you have to type long commands is a lot better. > >-Miles >

27 years, 3 months

3
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Superkids?

by meo＠netads.com

Cameron Kaiser said... | |Eight years old and learning PDP-8 assembler? What does she do on the |weekends, solve differential equations?!? :-) Actually, any reasonably intelligent 8 y/o who is interested, and who has learned to enjoy learning, is capable some level of assembler programming. It's amazing what society and the schools can do to destroy a young mind. -Miles

27 years, 3 months

14
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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:23 PM 1/13/99 +1, you wrote: >> The younger the kid, the more they need graphics capability. Teenagers >> don't really need it, no matter how much they beg for it (they just want to >> visit whitehouse.com). > >I found it just the other way - as younger they are as less >exact high res and high reality visions they need. An 5 year Not high quality graphics, just graphics. a 3 year old, for example, who has yet to learn to read (not Ward, of course 8^), would find a MS-DOS based computer, for example, pretty useless. Simply because the combinations of letters has no significance to the kid. Give the kid a basic mac, however, and the kid can see a picture of the Rabbit from Reader Rabbit and understand that clicking on it will start the Reader Rabbit program. Meanwhile, a 14 year old may not be *happy* with an MS-DOS based XT/AT, but they can make use of it, writing papers, calling BBSes/internet shell accounts, writing programs. As I said, your teenager may tell you how much they need that T-1 and SVGA to write their book report, but they really just want to access porno web sites. (I speak from experience, having been a teenager once.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Paper tape and Cards (and maybe ttys)

by arfonrg＠texas.net

Is there still a source for paper tape and punch cards (new or old)? Is there also a source for old mechanical ttys? I'd love to get one connected to one of my Linux boxes! Arfon

27 years, 3 months

6
7
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Computers for children

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Do you know that you ca structure you BASIC code also? I haven't used a GOTO statement in BASIC since I learned C. >> The main reason that *I* am aware of with people being down on BASIC is that >> it, in a sense, encourages writing spagetti code (probably with the >> inappropriate use of the GOTO statement.) > >Actually, that too is a learning experience. You only build one spaghetti >program that you'd like to maintain before you learn the error of your ways. > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >

27 years, 3 months

5
4
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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:34 PM 1/12/99 -0800, you wrote: >I think that an 8 year old would be best off with a machine with CD-ROM >capability. And a good size stack of reference disks, including >Encyclopedia Brittanica, atlases, and several collections of literature. Uh-oh, here goes Uncle Roger again... There are a lot of *really* good educational programs out there nowadays. Davidson, Learning Company, Br0derbund are some good names. They can really help kids get ahead. My niece is already reading at 4yo thanks to Interactive Reading Journey. (Not a record by any stretch, but no one is really pushing her.) I could go on for hours, but I won't... >There should also be WWW access, preferably with at least minimal >graphics capability. The younger the kid, the more they need graphics capability. Teenagers don't really need it, no matter how much they beg for it (they just want to visit whitehouse.com). >In the PC world, that would call for 386SX with VGA video, and DOS 3.10 Or a Mac IIci, both of which will require access to older software. Pentium or PowerPC is required for much of the good stuff you see at places like ChumpUSA. Used parts can be put together into a low-end/slow pentium for probably a lot less than $500, but that's still more than $10 + shipping. And for a dedicated task like learning a bit of programming, playing with some graphics, and a few games, a C64/Atari 800/Apple II would be fine. Also, BASIC, as maligned as it is, is useful for learning; I applied my BASIC experience to make learning PERL a snap. (And BASIC is very useful in its own right.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

7
8
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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:01 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >In fact, as I understand, all that FOR...NEXT and so on are are low-level >implementations of common usages of GOTO. High-level -- just as all BASIC/COBOL/C/Etc commands are high-level representations of many more assembly language commands. For-next: Start-Value = 1 End-Value = 99 Increment = 1 Counter = Start-Value :Start-For If Counter > End-Value Then Goto End-For end-if do stuff Counter = Counter + Increment Goto Start-For :End-For In fact there could be times when you would want to do this this way instead of using a for-next -- as in if you want you increment to change each time, or if you want to repeat a single iteration until some other condition is met. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:16 PM 1/13/99 -0600, you wrote: >And parents who read, read, read to their kids from the early days. >I'm talking day 1, if not in the womb. (almost 8^) We encourage >everyone we know to do this. We have friends who never got much Can't agree more -- and yes, even in the womb. Two things I've heard about: play music through headphones, with the headphones against the mother's stomach (softly, and classical music, mozart is best) and shine a flashlight against the mother's stomach and move it around. The first (supposedly) develops logical thinking ability as well as hearing, the second eyesight and coordination. Dunno if it works, but Cassie's folks did the first and she is definitely musically inclined. (Of course that may be genetic anyway.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:13 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Yup... and you can't put margin notes in a CDROM. Well, with well-written software, you should be able to include linked notes (virtual post-its) on the hard drive... Even so, I would much rather carry a laptop with CD and an unlinked file of notes than a shelf full of paperware. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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computers for children

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

I have to side with those who suggest a simple computer for a child with enough interest to learn assembly. c64, apple2, and so forth would be my suggestions. MacOS and Windows both are designed to keep you away from the nitty gritty inside the computer. My understanding is MacOS won't let you near it at all, and while windows *will* it's grudgingly and at your own peril. (and there's so much crap in memory that you can munge it's unlikely a novice will survive.) And as someone pointed out, there's so much to distract from learning to program with a more modern machine... By contrast, to do any kind of graphics or sound with a c64, you are interacting with it on a pretty low level - sprites are an 8 byte by 1 byte (if memory serves) chunk of memory and to turn a given pixel on, you poked a byte with that pixel on. A modern computer is designed to be an appliance, like a toaster, and requires no more understanding than "put bread in slot, press lever". If the child has shown an interest about what's inside, giving her a wintel or macos machine is a disservice. I'd have to even say giving her a linux box to do assembly on is probably too much. I don't grasp assembly well enough to be sure, but I'd imagine a multitasking system complicates it somewhat. On a related topic, does anyone else feel sorry for the kid in the microsoft commercials who considers himself a computer expert because he has "mastered many of Microsoft's applications." Heh. In the early 64 years you were considered a wuss if you *bought* applications instead of writing your own. Could it be a fiendish plot to reduce competition by making sure no-one but Microsoft has the skills to program in their environment? :) (just kidding) -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

3
2
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Computers for children

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 meo(a)netads.com wrote: > But you can still fake it. A few, simple standards gone a long way. In fact, as I understand, all that FOR...NEXT and so on are are low-level implementations of common usages of GOTO. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:15 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >> This'll probably offend many. >paintbrush programs for four years before graduating to doom. Ooh, like doom is so great for kids! 8^) Actually, if you wait until a kid is 8 or so before introducing them to computers, you've wasted a lot of their time. 18 months is the recommended earliest a kid should start with a computer, but if you want to sit them on your lap while you work before that, I think it's okay. At 18months, windows versus mac doesn't really matter much; it's the application software that's important. If you can get Reader Rabbit/Playroom/Jumpstart for Unix (or CP/M or PDP-8) then go for it. But to say that a kid should not be introduced to computers until they can read enough to use unix or can handle a soldering iron is to do a major disservice to the kid. For an 8 year old (the original question) who has probably already learned to read/write/type, and understands running a program, and has used other computers, a C-64 is a fine machine to muck around with, spill soda on, play with BASIC on. (Though I'd vote for Atari myself. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Computers for children

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>>But Linux is just fine as a newbie OS for a kid. > > At what level are you talking? I have not seen any sofware for kids (like > the knowledge adventure or humongous entertainment series) that would run on > Linux. It is hard to get a kid used to play with windows for 6 years and > tell him that it is crap and the one where you have to type long commands is > a lot better. At what level? At a "newbie" level, apparently, i.e. not one who has been using Lusedoze for six years. If I ever marry and have kids, I hope they won't be too disappointed that I don't allow MS Windows or Intel 80986 (or whatever) machines in the house :-) My folks were never into computers or electronics or anything of that nature. But once the school got a PET (1979), and parents found out that I spent every break time in the school computer room, regardless of whether I could book time on the machine, they got me one for my next birthday. (Yes I still have it). Some of their house rules I may well implement if I raise a family, though. Like no TV during the summer holiday. (I'd prefer no TV at all, but one must compromise occasionally) Philip.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Computers for children

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>> Apparently you have not tried Visual Basic... > >How is that as easy as ROM BASIC? You turn the computer, and Visual Basic >pops up immediately? I've yet to see such a computer (and if I do, I'll >bash it to pieces with an axe, but that's another story)!. Yes you can make your computer boot and load Visual Basic right away (you just have to wait a little longer:) What I meant by mentioning VB is that you can build a familiar interface very quickly and then add the code incrementally as you move along. VB takes care of all the extra stuff then you click on the play button and tada...(as a side note I do not like VB I just have to use it once in a while) > >We're talking about teaching _about_ computers, not teaching _with_ >computers. Granted, Alvin and the Chipmunks software won't run on Linux >(usually), and M$ Actimates won't work with it either...(echo "Hello, >World!" > /dev/barney, anyone?) but those things won't help someone who >wants to learn how a computer works. > Before you can really learn about computers you have to have an interest in it and so far I have not seen anything that could possibly interrest a kid that runs on Linux. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that MSBlows is THE solution but it is hard to make it simpler for a non computer litterate (actually for a kid who can't read it is strongly recommended to have a GUI but that's another chapter) If the kid starts asking questions on the under side of the machine then it is a good idea to switch to a machine that encourages the user to scratch under the surface. Francois

27 years, 3 months

3
2
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Bozeman MT Computer Museum [WAS: Re: cray, paper tape, collector's books, tek terminals, and WANTED]

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

At 10:19 AM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >> I picked up both of these books at the museum in Bozeman, Montana. Listers >> familiar with it? Funny little place. > >I heard those guys were clowns. Any truth to the rumor? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > I'd have to disagree. Other than the oddity of being located in Montana (not exactly a hub of high-tech industry), I found the Museum well put together, with an interesting collection. It is small, though, and probably isn't worth a detour of more than 200 miles. There were < 10 "big iron" mainframes, < 20 of the usual minis, with a small collection of micros (20-30) - the latter weren't described in much detail. The exhibits are arranged more or less chronologically by technology, starting with mechanical computing devices (Hollerith Census machines, Comptometers), moving on to electro-mechanical machines, then to tubes, transistors, and microchips. Many of the machines are arranged in office environments that replicate what they might have looked like when in use, and there is some interesting supporting material (advertisements from the era, etc). The tour guides are very friendly, and knowledgeable enough to answer questions from the general public. It's a good place to introduce kids to many of the technologies and some of the people involved in the development of computers; most of the people on this list would probably find it less interesting. Much like computer collecting, computer museums are still in their infancy, so let's not judge too harshly. For the record, the place is The American Computer Museum, 234 East Babcock St., Bozeman, MT, 59715, tel (406) 587-7545, fax (406) 587-9620. No Web site or email AFAIK. And I have no affiliation, professional or personal, with the place. Cheers, Mark.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:44 AM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >But not in most microcomputer BASICs. The Apple II, Atari and C64 all lack >BEGIN-BEND, WHILE-WEND, block IFs; the 64 doesn't even have ELSE. While-Wend (and Do While/Do Until) is just a shortcut for using If/Goto: Do While Flag <> True do some stuff If condition then Set Flag to True end-if loop is the same as :loop-in If Flag = True Then Goto loop-out end-if do some stuff If condition Then Set Flag to True end-if Goto loop-in :loop-out Spaghetti code is caused by bad programmers, not bad programming languages. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:09 AM 1/13/99 +0000, you wrote: >> There are a lot of *really* good educational programs out there nowadays. >> Davidson, Learning Company, Br0derbund are some good names. They can >> really help kids get ahead. My niece is already reading at 4yo thanks to >> Interactive Reading Journey. (Not a record by any stretch, but no one is >> really pushing her.) > >Hmmmm... I am convinced that the age a child starts to read, and the >interest he takes in obtaining information has a lot more to do with the >parents than with computer programs. True, but there are several instances where good software can make a lot of difference. First, many parents don't have training in how to teach a kid to read, so the software can be a good assistant. For children with a learning disability, the software can make a huge difference. And even for the best of parents, getting a kid to read is probably not as much fun as playing the "games" used in these programs. In the US, however, a lot of parents don't have the time/energy/interest to work with their kids (yes, I know it should be a crime) so the software can take over some of the work, so that the parent's limited time/energy/interest can be directed towards the topics that a computer can't handle. I'm not saying that if a kid doesn't have a G3 Mac with all the software, they'll end up working at McDonalds their whole life, but it can certainly help them make the most of their potential without running everyone concerned ragged. btw, on a similar (and potentially off-topic) topic, does anyone have a source for affordable quantities (like 20) SCSI CD-ROM drives? 2x is fine, 4x is more than enough. External would be idea, but internal is acceptable as well. They're for my girlfriend's classroom. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Silent 700

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Hey all, I've got a TI Silent 700 printing terminal, not the portable one, but the big desktop kind of thing. It reminds me of a DecWriter. But as near as I can tell, a couple boards are missing from its internal card-cage. So... 1) Does anybody know these things well enough to help me figure out for sure if it has all of its guts? 2) Is anybody interested in owning all or part of it? Even if I can get it to work, I'm not terribly interested in keeping it for myself. Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, The perfect computer for a child? A NeXT Station, complete with Developer software if you can get it. NeXTStep Version 3.3 is fine (minor Y2K fixes needed), Openstep 4.2 would be better. A monochrome slab, 16M RAM/400M Disk ought to be about $200 (Hmm... <surf, surf> Deepspace Technologies (http://www.deepspacetech.com/)is selling them for $135, but no Developer software). There are Spreadsheets, Word Processors, Web Browsers, and Presentation Packages available for it for *free* (download from a web site, no-cost license for single users). The Development environment runs Objective-C, a completely OO system which is carried right through the entire operating system. Regular C supported too (but I don't think C++ or Pascal.) The experience starts with an easy, gui interface and progresses easily right up to Mach UNIX. Networking is built-in ethernet, with GUI configuration tools (work great with other NeXTs) and Unix command-line accessibility if you want more complicated stuff. Mathematica will run on it, though that costs a *lot* unless you are lucky enough to get it included on your machine. There's also a fair amount of music software as well, which I can't really comment on because I don't know much about it. It's big, rugged (well, the mouse cable and kb cable are a bit vulnerable) and impressive. Best of all, there are not very many games that run on it. :-) - Mark

27 years, 3 months

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Apple monitor question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

On my computer scrounging trip yesterday I found a BIG monitor marked "Apple Composite 2 page monitor". Anyone know exactly wha that is? I've never heard of one before. What systems does it work on? Joe

27 years, 3 months

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cray, paper tape, collector's books, tek terminals, and WANTED

by jonathan＠canuck.com

William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wanna know: > > Not much to tell yet. It's a YMP-EL/98, the 8-cpu version of the > > air-cooled "baby's first Cray" series. > > Not only air-cooled, but more or less plug-into-the-wall as well. I envy > you. Yeah - it appears to just need 220 and enough room HVAC. A raised floor isn't even a requirement, though we're dying to put one in. Our biggest concern is simply the footprint, as our machine room has pretty much run out of space. We added a freebie sparcserver 690 on Saturday, and that's about hogged out the remaining space we were figuring on devoting to the Cray. > > At the moment, we know of two other machines of the same family > > that are now in private hands. > > I have had absolutely no luck in getting a supercomputer, for myself or > for RCS/RI. Currently I am bothering people about a MasPar and an ETA, but > both have hit brick walls. I suppose it helps to be in the right place at > the right time. How did you manage? Never seen a MasPar - would like to. The ETA would be a sweet find - which model? I stole a nameplate off of one about ten years ago; those machines are a solid piece of super history. Of course, in "Die Hard" you get to see a whole floor of CDC machines, including an ETA-10, get blown up _real_good_. As far as "managing", I really don't want to say yet. Any further comments before it's in our machine room would be premature. And the people handing it over may very well not want us to disclose the source. They've told us that there may be more machines in the future, as they're decommissioned, and probably won't want the risk of people pestering them. ... Courtesy Bruce Lane (kyrrin(a)my-dejanews.com), who turned me on to the list: > Can someone please get in touch with this guy? He asks a most > interesting question. "Bill Mohler" <bill(a)cs.oberlin.edu> > Subject: Help: Paper tape reader to PC > Any advice on how to attach a paper tape reader to an IBM compatible > computer? How about making the PC emulate a tape reader? Anyone been in touch with this chap yet? I expected someone to post a mention of the interface in question. ObClassicBit: As they say, one of the jobs "on the things-to-do list" is bringing up the front panel imsai with the asr-33 for the express purpose of loading up a recently-acquired micro$oft 8K basis paper tape. Just out of curiosity, how rare is this software? Anyone else on the list got it? Anyone else want a copy if/when I get around to it? Hey, Bill! I'm a-leggin' yer code! Come 'n' git me! ... "John R. Keys Jr." <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> pitched: > Another one that I really like is Stan Veit's History of The Personal > Computer it's a great reference source with photos so that you know what to > look for. He writes a little history about each machine. It's still only $3 > from the guy on ebay. John This is WELL worth it. I met Stan at his store in NYC back 79; very nice chap. His book is a good write from someone who was there. On the other hand... > > Haddock's book is A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket > > Calculators, > > subtitled A Historical, Rarity, and Value Guide, by Dr. Thomas F. Haddock, > > Books Americana, Florence, Alabama, 1993. ISBN 0-89689-098-8. is a REAL piece of shit. This guy doesn't know anything, and the book looks like it was assembled with a photocopier, a stack of old Byte magazines, and a rubber stamp that says "Value: $50-$75". I picked up both of these books at the museum in Bozeman, Montana. Listers familiar with it? Funny little place. ...

27 years, 3 months

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Berkeley Enterprises 1956 Report

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>Hey, Chuck. Do you happen to remember approximately when that Shannon >article appeared? Berkeley had many logic toys and robots, including a Ok - don't have the Scientific Earthling article that a similar project appeared in, but found in an IEEE book "C.E. Shannon: Collected Papers" one called "Presentation of a Maze-Solving Machine" - from "Transactions 8th Cybernetics Conference, Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation, 1952". Is a thick and chewy book. Also, get this - in the paper on "Programming a computer for Playing Chess" (National IRE Conference, March 9, 1949), he referances the game of Nim, and that a machine able to play a perfect game has been constructed - Condon, Tawney and Derr, U.S. Patent 2,215,544. The "Nimotron" based on this patent was built and exhibited by Westinghouse at the 1938 New York World's Fair. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 3 months

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Tandy 600 acting screwy

by roblwill＠usaor.net

-----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Tandy 600 acting screwy >My 600 started doing this as well... but without the NiCd's in it at all. >Methinks the nicads are necessary for voltage regulation or somesuch... > >One question: You mentioned replacing the nicads -- I don't know if this >makes a difference, but did you use *hi-capacity* nicads??? The original >nicads in the T600 were 4000mAh - the plain-jane RadioShack D-cell nicads >are like 1800mAh or so, IIRC. > I used the hi-capacity ones. It was all that the local R/S carries as far a D-cells goes. >Aim for RS's Hi-Capacity Nicads - 4500mAh - should increase that 11 hour >(advertised) runtime by over an hour. > >Or just order a new Tandy battery pack - for $80.00. :-( Ummm, I don't >think so!!! > >Will let you know when I get mine working (local RS only had 3 batteries... >:-/ ). > ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 3 months

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NCR pics site

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

In case anyone needs pictures of various NCR items from 1879 to present, there is a page at http://www3.ncr.com/product/retail/gallery/ that has all sorts of pics to include PC's and even a cash register in use in Malaysia in 1910. Did Malaysia even have an economy then? By the way, they moved their support files for NCR and AT&T 63XX machines (setup disks) to the following site:http://www3.ncr.com/support/pc/pcdesc/ and the pages tied to it.

27 years, 3 months

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