- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>unattended outside my house! Anyway, yes I've a >second line and what happens is that it does ring >but when I answer it (feeling rather besides myself) >there is dead air. What I'm dialing, other than myself, is a If you really want to feel funny, sometimes you can whistle into the phone, experiment with the pitch and trick the calling modem enough to get *IT* to start squealing. Of course, the ultimate test would be to set up a modem to answer on your 2nd line and troubleshoot from there. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

[OT] Re: IE 4/Office 97 Security Hole

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Current machines aren't like that at all. So I am wondering if there will > be any '10 year old' machines in 2009 or whenever. I bet some of us are > still discussing PDP11s and PDP8s and PERQs and CDCs and.... in that year :-) If someone has an honest question about a 10-year-old computer, by all means, let them ask. But, there isn't too much traffic on this list about PC hardware, and that's not going to grow as the PC market share declines (it can hardly increase). And the thing is, as you say, little can be done for PC hardware. If it's dead, it's dead. > Personally, I'd include the IBM PC (5150) and maybe the XT (5160), > portable (5155) and AT (5170). Like it or not, they had a significant > impact on computing. But I don't think I'll ever think of a generic > PC-clone, no matter how old, as a 'classic'. 'Classic' carries some connotation of class or of being nostalgic, etc. Hardly any PC clones do that. Also, a generic ISA machine is hardly a collectible item, so, again, I doubt they will generate much traffic as time goes on.

27 years, 2 months

6
5
0 0

Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/22/99 9:19:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com writes: << Made sense to me... In my meager days (while going to school) I turned over and used Apple ][ floppy's. I wouldn't say they didn't hold up but I did have enough disk errors on diskettes I did this with to decide to quit the practice. And yes I do wish I had not ever done this. >> i made many disks flippies so i didnt have to carry so many around and never had a disk failure. Of course, i always bought double sided disks instead of single side disks since supposedly both sides were certified error free rather than just one side. david

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Bulbs in parallel

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:57 AM 1/13/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Gag? Mechanical computers are serious stuff, Hans. Like Danny Hillis' >>tinker-toy tic-tic-toe machine: >There was another one, but I can't seem to find the page now. Found it... Dunno if it still exists (can't access the web at the moment) but here's the URL: http://legowww.homepages.com/projects/adding/project2.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

5
9
0 0

FA: Panasonic 200U. Be the first on your block!

by manney＠hmcltd.net

Panasonic 200U with 32K memory, Instruction book, box (pretty beat up). Nothing happens on the screen when it's turned on, and beeps each time a key is pressed. The unit is on fine shape (cosmetically), though. It;s a flat CoCo-looking thing, with rubber chicklet keys. I can send a pic to anyone interested. Following the current practice, I guess I'll ask $8,500 on eBay, but I thought I'd offer it for a discount (say, $8,499.95) to the group. Anyone interested for the price of shipping and a few bucks? manney(a)hmcltd.net (please note address change)

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Berman prices

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> I don't know if it's on topic but I got back my bid report from Berman and > some folks have asked me to record the prices so here they are: (Berman == > www.berman.com) > > A pallet of four NeXT cubes w/Monitors and drives $325 > A pallet of Tektronix plugins $297 > An SGI Crimson Server $210 > A Sun 4/330 (Dual CPU) Server $60 > A set of three SparcStation IIs $501 > A complete Mac IIci (printer, monitor the works) $70 Any Idea what the Tek plugins were and how many? Philip.

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

OT: Need info on a PCI board

by mbg＠world.std.com

Yes, I know, this is way off-topic, but the board I recently obtained is unique... I was hoping someone on this list might be able to give me an off-line pointer to info... I obtained a PCI board produced by Evans and Sutherland which is labelled 'RealImage 1000' and appears to be VGA compatible. In an Alpha 600au, it identifies as Eclipse 4D30T... it has an angled slot for a DIMM module, and I know the board comes in 20 Mb and 32 Mb configurations. I apparently supports (or is supported by) OpenGL... I'd like to get as much bits 'n bytes (tm) level programming info on this board, as well as information on what sort of DIMM I need. The 32 Mb Dimm I have doesn't look anything like the one I see in a picture of the board, so maybe some of the 32 Mb is already on-board. Anyway, anyone with any information on this board, please contact me, I'd like to see if I can get it running on my Linux box. Thanks in advance... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Free PRIME 2455 (UK)

by PeksaDO＠cardiff.ac.uk

Prime 2455 - free to good home - collect from Cardiff Introduced 1987, 1.2 Mips. Cabinet, CPU, 8Mb memory, SCSI controller, internal cables, PSU No disk drive; no tape drive; PSU does not work - PSU fault light remains on - it broke when I turned my washing machine on! A few hardware and software documents Approx dimensions 75H x 30W x 77D cm. Feels more than 50kg or maybe I'm just getting old. I'm more into DEC so havn't the time or space for this one. If nobody wants it, its off to the recycling depot. Doug.

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Free PRIME 2455 (UK)

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Doug, I just got a 2450 that I'm trying to resurect. It appears that the CPU is fried and I haven't found a replacement. I read the PRIME FAQ and it appears that they might be compatible. If this is the case, I'd *love* to have the CPU and other cards. Thanks, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: DOUG PEKSA - COMPG [SMTP:PeksaDO@cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 6:16 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Free PRIME 2455 (UK) Prime 2455 - free to good home - collect from Cardiff Introduced 1987, 1.2 Mips. Cabinet, CPU, 8Mb memory, SCSI controller, internal cables, PSU No disk drive; no tape drive; PSU does not work - PSU fault light remains on - it broke when I turned my washing machine on! A few hardware and software documents Approx dimensions 75H x 30W x 77D cm. Feels more than 50kg or maybe I'm just getting old. I'm more into DEC so havn't the time or space for this one. If nobody wants it, its off to the recycling depot. Doug.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

MacOS (was: mac tool)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/21/99 11:42:30 PM EST, nerdware(a)laidbak.com writes: > Thanks for the info. I still have to boot my Plus from floppy, so I never > went past > the original system that came with it. Some day, when I actually have free > time, I'll have to try 7 on my Plus. make sure you have a hard drive first! swapping floppies on mac especially when you have several disks on the desktop gets tedious. i'd use 6.0.8 which is small and fast. unless you require the multifinder or bubble help, stay with what you have already.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Looking for pointers to old Control Data software

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> > I've tried contacting the lastest version of CDC and they offer no help >> > whatsoever. Even refused to allow me to release copies of any of their >> > old manuals "for liability reasons." (don't get me started!) >> >> That makes me sooo mad.... > > It makes me mad as well. > > Does anyone know a friendly lawyer? Is there any form of legal wording > that can be used so that the company can't _possibly_ be held liable for > anything? If not, then there needs to be ;-) If it were true, there'd be some point to your suggestion. Unfortunately I fear it is just an excuse, and the real reason is "can't be bothered". In which case your suggestion wouldn't help. Apathy is very powerful. (BTW, "What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?" "I don't know and I don't care.") Philip.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Ebay Posts was Re: Ebay: Very Old IBM Model 705 Tube-type Logic Module

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >At 10:01 AM 1/21/99 -0800, Marvin wrote: >> >>At any rate, I choose not to participate further in these discussions about >>the "morality" of posting to this list items for sale on ebay as they are >>pointless and do nothing to *promote* this hobby. I will continue to post >>items that *I* think might be interesting to members of this list. >> > > Yes, please do! I like to look at a lot of the E-bay items even if I >don't care to bid on them or spent time searching E-bay for them. > > Joe If I'm not mistaken, this can be done for up to 30 days *after* an auction as well you laggard.... Heh... Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 22 January 1999 20:28 Subject: Re: Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes >As Megan pointed out, the maths is wrong. A "1.44MB" disk has 80 >cylinders, two sides, 18 sectors per track, sector size 512 bytes. > >80 * 2 * 18 * 512 = 80 * 18 * 1024 = 1440KB > >That's where the "1.44" number comes from. > >And a Megabyte is normally held to be 1024 * 1024 (megabyte would, I agree, >be different, 1000 * 1000). But "1.44MB" refers to 1.44 * 1000 * 1024, >which is a ridiculous way to count. 1440KB = 1.406MB. I always thought there were things about IBM that just didn't add up. (Sorry, couldn't resist it.) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

NEC 8401A

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C220+A0+R67581 Sorry Doug, --Chuck

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

LSI-11 Processor Status Word

by mbg＠world.std.com

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote: >Stupid question: I'm trying to install TCP/IP on my PDP-11/73 running >RT-11 V5.4 and am trying to choose the proper driver. Does the PDP-11/73 >CPU have a Processor Status Word? The 11/73 is the KDJ11-A, based on the DCJ11 chip, which has a processor status word at 17777776. It also just so happens that (at least for all the DEC pdp-11s) a machine with memory management also has a processor status word. >Also, if you've got a driver for TSX-11 do you have to have corresponding >driver for RT-11 installed? Not that I know of. The TSX versions of the drivers are the RT-11 versions rebuilt to use PAR6 instead of PAR1 for access to user buffers, et al. Same documented restrictions of PAR1 use in the RT-11 doc set would then apply to PAR6 when using the drivers under TSX... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Ebay: Very Old IBM Model 705 Tube-type Logic Module

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> >So I guess the problem is that Information Wants To Be Free, and the >Internet Will Liberate Us, and Shopping Online is Phun, and all that, >except when its efficiency seems to work against you. Look on the >bright side: if it weren't for the Net, eBay and this list, fewer >people would be offering these sorts of goods, and most of us would >never hear about them. Maybe... One of the cool components of the hobby is FINDING the bargain. These announcements do nothing but raise the prices eventually paid for these items. I guess that makes sense if your already sitting on a cache of Altairs and 5100s and are happily watching prices go through the roof. I'd do everything I could to help that little market develop... And *anyone* who's not afraid of the stale breath of satan can go to ebay and search for 'old computers'. Ok, I promise to say no more on this subject... wait.... Anyone see these pictures of Marvin's wife at http:\\... *just kidding* ;) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

[OT] Re: IE 4/Office 97 Security Hole

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:23 PM 1/21/99 -0000, you wrote: >exclude all IBM-compatible x86 systems, but there are some people that Well, the average say, post-85 desktop PC, I would heartily agree with. Some, however, especially portables, do have some innovations/freakishness. Like the Sharp portable I mentioned, or the Gavilan, Compass, etc. I will break with my above comments long enough to say that if I had lots of storage space, it would be really cool to get a PC's Limited pc... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 22, 1:30, Tony Duell wrote: > > This can't be possible! Otherwise, why didn't someone exploit this to > > make 4-sided diskettes?? > > Because you don't gain any extra storage. Pete formated every other track > on the disk using an 80-track drive (narrow heads). So in the end he had > 80 tracks on each side (40 going in each direction). Since an 80 track > drive can write 80 tracks anyway, there's no advantage in flipping the > disk over. Almost exactly. Actually, it was an accident. It was obviously a 40-track flippy to start with, and at some time in the dim and distant past I must have decided to use it "properly", two-sided. But only the second side had been formatted in the flipped orientation, so although it was 40+40=80 tracks on one side it was only 40 on the other. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Hard Sector Disks

by dogas＠leading.net

> >I have the H-17. What is the H-37 as I don't recognize it by that number? >I have other two cases, one with dual full height 5 1/4" drives and the >other with dual 8" drives, but I don't know the model number at the moment. The one with the 8" are the H27, I think... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 2 months

5
5
0 0

GRID LAPTOP

by Marty＠itgonline.com

While out junking at lunch I met a gent who said he has a Grid Laptop with a metal case (he said this model went to the moon) and uses bubble memory. He said he'd entertain selling it but I've no idea what to offer. Any ideas on what to offer or any info on this laptop? I'd appreciate and info. Thanks, Marty marty(a)itgonline.com

27 years, 2 months

3
5
0 0

Ink stamp on 1970s IC's.

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi all, I have seen several plastic DIP IC's from the 1970's have a white ink stamp on them that say something like "ETC 4" on them. (Your number may vary) Most are Intel RAM's, but some are Signetics or National TTL. Before I have seen them on chips on boards, but have now bought a bunch of IC's new in tubes which also have this stamp. Has anyone else seen this and know what it means? -Dave

27 years, 2 months

5
5
0 0

Altair FP Schematic?

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Does anyone have a schematic for the Altair front panel? In my document collection, I have the CPU, power supply, clock, and RAM schematics, but not the FP schematic. Thanks. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Zorba the Geek

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

27 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 21, 16:58, Sam Ismail wrote: > Subject: Re: Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes > On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > "OK, so that's a flippy", I said to myself. A little later, I re-read the > > catalogue -- and got a different listing! I had inadvertantly catalogued > > side two, with the disk right-side-up -- and realised that the tracks must > > not line up, so side two had two sets of data, going in opposite rotations, > > with the tracks interleaved! > > This can't be possible! Otherwise, why didn't someone exploit this to > make 4-sided diskettes?? It was an 80-track drive, but the disk was formatted to 40 tracks originally -- there just happened to be two sets of 40 on one of the sides. The second set was probably recorded on a double-stepped 80-track drive, so the track width was only half as wide as a real 40-track would have written, and becuse of the offset between upper and lower heads, just happened to fall in the right place. It would be an awfully complicated way to get 80 tracks out of an 80 track drive :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

eBay Finds (was: Ebay Posts was...)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:41 PM 1/21/99 -0800, you wrote: >> For $5 and shipping, I got (on eBay!) a Sharp PC-5000 laptop. No biggie >Are you sure this isn't just a re-branded Gavilan? Sounds an awful lot >alike. Very sure. Though I suppose the Gavilan could have copied the Sharp's design. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Kaypros and Osbornes

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:05 PM 1/21/99 -0500, you wrote: >I might be willing to unload mine. When I hear one went for $400 on E-Bay. I've not heard of a Zorba going for $400 on eBay. The only one I've ever seen on there went for a little over $125. It was the weekend around 11/9/1997 and I was on a weekend get-away with my GF when it closed. I had also blown a significant bit of cash on the weekend, so I couldn't just bid higher. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Finished Posting MOS Hardware Guide

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Tonight, I finished posting the MOS Technologies Hardware Guide. It appears to be a complete guide to designing and using MOS microprocessor and peripheral products. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

2002 (was:: Looking for pointers to old Control Data software)

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Hello Hans, you are certainly welcome to it - after all its only bits and not a single atom, so it can be copied easily. However, there is no documentation apart from source code comments - it's a (hopefully) portable C program plus some ASCII data files, so it should run on anything that has a C-compiler. Since your address makes me believe that you are affiliated with Siemens Munich, and since I live in Munich too, maybe we just get together and discuss this ? I will send you my coordinates in private email. The simulator maps core and drum to RAM arrays, papertape input and output to File I/O, and the console to keyboard/screen. It would be neat to interface to a real S2002 console - there are at least two in Munich, one at the Siemens museum and one at the Deutsche Museum; maybe that would be a fun project to try one of these to agree to that proposal ????? The compiler I have is in fact the Alcor Triplex Main S2002, the result of a thesis (not mine) done at Mainz University in 1968, extending Algol by the data type TRIPLEX which is an interval representation of a floating-point number: [lower-bound, standard-f.p., upper-bound] Any operation on triplex numbers will produce the min/max values resulting >from possible roundoff, so that the error propagation of roundoff may be studied. This is theoretically nice, but in practice you can invert a 10x10 matrix only if you are lucky and it is conditioned extremely well, otherwise some pivot interval will include 0 resulting in a divide error. In those days there were fears that one could not do any calculation involving millions of f.p. operations because of roundoff - that turned out to be really academic. John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

FS: Add-in 2 Serial/2 Parallel cards

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

I have a bunch of DFI serial/parallel adapters for sale for $7.50 each ($20 for 3) plus shipping, with docs. They have the Winbond chipset that includes 16550 UARTS and gives you 2 serial and 2 parallel ports. Better than an A/B switch if you run more than one printer, or great if you have a parllel port device like scanner. No more worry about conflicts. Works great under DOS through Win98. I have one in everyone of my 8 bit and 16 bit machines and one in my EISA server. This one is excess and needs a good home Totally setable to whatever you need. The docs (if you want to look at them) are available in PDF format at ftp://ftp.dfiusa.com/multi_io_cards/DIO222/d220830.pdf Full spcifications are shown. Includes 2 9 pin serial and 2 25 pinprinter ports, one of each on the card and one of each on an addtional slot filler, but you can move these to case openings if you desire. Shipping is minmal, probably $3.25 for a couple of them. Also have a couple Intel (and other brands) 14,400 baud internal faxmodems. Windows 95 and 98 see them fine and they work great with Win 3.1 and DOS too. All clean and in great shape. $6 each or 3 for $15 plus shipping. Again, a light item. These work great for someone with an occasional need for internet, send/recv faxes or to use free email or call BBS systems.. These items are for sale to US and APO/FPO addresses only. Shipping to other countries is not cost effective and is a real pain in many cases. I use USPS parcel post, insured unless priority is real close to the same price. Drop me a direct email if interested. Payment by money order only. Ships the same or next day as payment is recieved. These are items I have picked up for other projects and ended up with way too many, these are not connected with a business and are personal sales.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Disasters and Recovery

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:31 AM 1/20/99 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >> > What makes some of today's technology fragile is simply the density, or >> > equivalenty, the lack of redundancy in a given area. > >Take a look at the specification for how CDs are formatted. You may be >suprised to find out that a good chunck (more than just a few percent) is >dedicated to error correction! That is why you do not hear all of the >scratches in poorly handled CDs. Well, hearing an error on an audio CD might be difficult. If cost is no object, you could have the data pressed to a mastered CD, as opposed to burning a CD-R at home. The "real" aluminum mastering process entails a "glass master" that might last longer than the aluminum foil version. Are there any CD mastering plants that give you an option of true gold foil, to avoid oxidation? - John

27 years, 2 months

6
6
0 0

Kaypros and Osbornes

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:56 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >::Meanwhile, no one's ever heard of a Zorba, so I don't know why the two I've >::heard about sold for over $100. > >Okay, I'll bite: what's a Zorba? Suitcase luggable, CP/M, much like the Kaypro. The company that made the Zorba was supposedly coming out with another model, but I don't know if they ever did. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 2 months

3
4
0 0

E-bay trauma

by jpl15＠netcom.com

E-bay: Protectionism or laissez-faire... an old, old debate. I personally *hate* e-bay for No Good Reason, and choose not to participate... not the least Bad Reason of which is my own financial health. I buy enough Stuff via the Net as it is. But that's just Me. Philsophically... E-bay is Capitalistic and Darwinistic. One can rail against the concept or embrace it. C'est la Vie. I spent some years in the Electronic/Aerospace surplus business, and I have been in thousands of auctions of every type. It's like This: Ya win some, an' Ya lose some. I know exactly, precisely how it is to have counted every penny one has to put on something Really Really desireable, only to be outdone at the last moment by some schmuck with deeper pockets. And of course, I've been that schmuck, too. E-bay is a 'public' forum, ie. access is not restricted. This is a 'private' list (sorta), and is (lightly) regulated; I am violating those regs right now. What the crux of Dougs' and Marvin's contretemps [where's all this Francais coming from...?] is the Morality of providing a 'heads-up' to this List of an item on e-bay which might be of interest to one or more listmembers. My tuppence: If I find a nice juicy PDP-11 system for sale, I will either buy it myself, and crow about it here afterwards, or pass on it and announce it here for others to consider. Then, IMHO, the same situation obtains: someone will be successful and the others will be dissappointed. C'est la Vie X2. I see no difference if the Item is languishing on a lonely loading dock or represented on a public auction forum. Private Note to Doug and Marv: Could you please patch this up prior to TRW Saturday (the 30th)??? I'm buying lunch for everyone in the group (after the T-hunt) and I'd like to eat peacefully... ----> ;} <----- Cheerz John

27 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

Berman prices

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

I don't know if it's on topic but I got back my bid report from Berman and some folks have asked me to record the prices so here they are: (Berman == www.berman.com) A pallet of four NeXT cubes w/Monitors and drives $325 A pallet of Tektronix plugins $297 An SGI Crimson Server $210 A Sun 4/330 (Dual CPU) Server $60 A set of three SparcStation IIs $501 A complete Mac IIci (printer, monitor the works) $70 Cheers, --Chuck

27 years, 2 months

2
2
0 0

Free Stuff!

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > I found two Corvus Systems PC Bus Transporter cards that fit 8 bit ISA > > slot. I don't need them. Anyone can have them for the cost of shipping. > > If anyone ends up with these, I spent a bit of time hacking around on > Transputers (including making a hand-wired transputer board) and I have a > shelf of docs for them. Tony is probably realizing his case of classiccmp aphasia right now, but Transporter != Transputer. The Corvus Transporter cards are Omninet interfaces, and if they have CPUs on them they are probably 8-bit 680x. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 2 months

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1
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catch of the day & CPM disk format

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found a box of old computer stuff today. I didn't think it was much till I cleaned it up and looked at it. Boy, appearances can be deceiving! Here's what I got: Qume Sprint 9/45 and 9/55 terminal service manual, operator's instruction manual and intefacing information. THREE BRAND NEW WordStar 3.0 packages with disks and manuals in the original MicroPro binders. THREE BRAND NEW SuperSort 1.6 packages with disks and manuals in the original MicroPro binders. One BRAND NEW CalcStar 1.2 package with disk and manual in the original MicroPro binder. THREE BRAND NEW SpellStar 1.2 packages with disks and manuals in the original plastic bag from MicroPro. THREE BRAND NEW MailMerge 3.0 packages with disks and manuals in the original plastic bag from MicroPro. One brand new package of WorkSheet Wizard with disk and manual in the original plastic bag. The docs for this one state that it's for a North Star Advantage. The manuals HINT that all of this is for a CPM system. All the disks are hard sectored 5 1/4" disk with 11 index/sector holes. Q: What system other than North Star used hard sectored 10 sector disks? Joe

27 years, 2 months

4
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(IBM) PC RTproblems

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/21/99 1:23:18 PM EST, jpero(a)cgocable.net writes: > I just finally got around to borrow a TTL monitor and tried out the RT > 6151. It did boot off the disk but one thing I have problem with this > is rapidly blinking "99" even the keyboard lock is in unlocked > position. That happened when booting off the diskette I have here. > > Checked the microswitch all the way to the motherboard connector > end. It's ok! > > Thanks! somewhere in command central i have a list of all the checkpoint codes for the RT but i cannot find it right now. 99 means missing boot files IIRC. david

27 years, 2 months

2
2
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Is again re: PDP-8 on e-bay

by joe＠barrera.org

>I hate to bring this up again, but has anyone seen the present bid compared to the >start bid, and where the high bidder is from, Association for Computing Machinery >(acm.org)?? I must have missed the original thread on this but it seems a bit high >for a :kind of beat up and working condition unknown" machine. How "rare" are the >PDP-8's Seems I see a lot of traffic about them here, they can't be *that* rare. I'm joebar(a)acm.org. I know, I'm stupid, but it was just sort of an impulse kind of thing. I don't know what the start bid was, but I just somehow entered a bid a little higher than the reserve. I was thinking, "how much did I spend last year on that dumb P5-166 box", and used that as a figure, given that the PDP-8 undoubtably has greater long term value than the P5-166. (Isn't rationalization wonderful? :-) - Joe

27 years, 3 months

4
3
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Free Stuff!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found two Corvus Systems PC Bus Transporter cards that fit 8 bit ISA slot. I don't need them. Anyone can have them for the cost of shipping. Joe

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Heath H/Z 19 terminals

by Watzman＠ibm.net

The keyboard encoder in the Heath H-19 terminals (also the Zenith Z-19) was a National Semiconductor part. It was discontinued in late 1981 or 82, while the terminal was still in production. Heath bought tens of thousands of them in a "last time buy" both for ongoing production and for future service. I don't know the current availability of this item from Heath (Heath does still exist, and does sell SOME parts), but it hasn't been available from National for a decade and a half. It WAS a generic part at the time. Note that every H/Z - 89/90 has an imbedded H/Z-19 terminal and therefore uses this part. I'm not sure of this, but I think that the ROM was required because the encoder only generated a "key number" and not ASCII, and it wasn't easily possible to arrange the keys for the key number to correspond to the ASCII value (Carl Goy was the designer, and he's still around out in California somewhere, he worked for Mouse Systems and Headland Technology after leaving Heath). I know all of this because for 5 years I was the Product Line Director for the entire Heath/Zenith computer line. Barry Watzman

27 years, 3 months

3
3
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Ebay Posts was Re: Ebay: Very Old IBM Model 705 Tube-type Logic Module

by dogas＠leading.net

Ok... add 'lying' to conniving sniviling wheez... From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> >On the other side of that coin, if I were trying to attempt to gain a >fortune in computers now, I would do everything I could to stop the free >flow of information. I guess by this, you mean buying computers now? And, the free flow of that information would never make it into this backwater tributary were it not for the duct system you've implemented. ok, ok... I know... enough.. - Mike:dogas@leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
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MITS Sherwood Medical S-Twelve

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I take it from the lack of any responses that nobody has any info on MITS oem's? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: MITS Sherwood Medical S-Twelve Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/20/99 6:41 PM I don't remember if I asked for information on this computer before. I'm looking for any documentation or history of this Sherwood Medical computer. 'A Brunswick Company' is proudly proclaimed on the front panel adjacent to where it reads Sherwood Medical S-Twelve (which oem'd this MITS Altair for blood gas analysis). The Sherwood S-Twelve has eighteen slots, a heavy duty power supply and the following boards, all made but MITS: 8800 CPU BD REV 0 4K STATIC BOARD REV-2 X4 88-2 SIO REV 0 8K PROM BD REV 0- X2 INVERTER BD 88-IS SH REV 1 88 (SIOB) SERIAL TTL REV 1 MITS MODEM BD 88-MUX REV 1 MITS A/D CONVERTER REV 0 If you have any information about MITS 8800s sold to industry as in this case, please let me know. Thanks, Marty marty@itgonline ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan20.184119.1767.94103; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:41:20 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id PAA05856; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:38:31 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id PAA4 4800 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:38:24 -0800 Received: from smtp.itgonline.com (smtp.itgonline.com [38.250.184.4]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with SMTP id PAA273 43 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:38:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from cc:Mail (PU Serial #1767) by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan20.183955.1767.183302; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:40:13 -0500 Message-Id: <1999Jan20.183955.1767.183302(a)smtp.itgonline.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:40:13 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marty(a)itgonline.com (Marty) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: MITS Sherwood Medical S-Twelve Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Conversion-ID: <cc:Mail/#467847/ITG-OFFICE> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 3 months

1
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OT: Alien Media (was Disasters and Recovery)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> It was thus said that the Great Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com once stated: >> >> I'd like to define it in terms of SI units, but the Kilogram is not too >> easy (yet). > > Really? The meter is defined (certain frequency of light from a certain > element for so many waves yada yada). Sea level is defined (don't know the > SI unit, but 780 millibars of pressure). Celcius is defined (0 is freezing > point of pure water at sea level, 100 boiling point of pure water at sea > level) and that's all you need to define the gram: one cubic centimeter of > water at 4C at sea level. That also gets you volume (liters). Well, sort of. The definition of a metre is actually 1/299792458 of the distance travelled by light in vacuo in one second. Wavelengths of the orange-red line in the spectrum of Krypton-86 went out long enough ago to qualify for this list at least! The definition of the kilogram is _still_ afaik "the mass of the international prototype kilogram" (or kilogramme, I suppose). And FWIW sea level pressure is 1013 millibars. 760 millimetres of mercury. But kilogram = mass of 1 cubic decimetre of pure water is probably accurate enough for most purposes as long as you don't have too much deuterium or oxygen-18. BTW Celsius isn't an SI unit. SI unit of temperature is the [degree] Kelvin (K, written without the degree sign), defined as 1/273.16 of the absolute temperature of the triple point of, oh no! It's water again! Again, specify hydrogen-1 and oxygen-16 and it's probably accurate enough... See. Not as easy as it sounds, but still possible. If you allow non-SI definitions, start with: Second = 1/86400 mean solar day (that changes only by a couple of percent every million years - enough that dinosaurs had a 400 day year, and ancient Babylonians observed eclipses a few tens of miles from where modern astronomers predicted them or at the wrong time of day) Metre = 1/40000000 circumference of Earth. Originally 1E-7 distance from N Pole to Equator through (I think) Paris. (Longer than SI metre by 0.02%) Then proceed as above with Celsius and volumes of water... Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Didn't realize 5 1/4" DD were getting hard to find. I threw out about 25k a couple of months ago. If you need some, let me know. I'm sure there are more here, somewhere...? Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: James L. Rice [SMTP:jrice@texoma.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 11:38 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes My Amigas and my classic Macs as well as several Tandy's use the DD disks, so i buy all I can find. I've bought a lot recently at consignment store for about $1-2 for a box of 10. I think I have about 2k in stock now. James "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >I have been stocking up for the past three years. I have about 10k > >stored. Also 720k disks are not as easy to find anymore, so I've been > >gather a supply of those also. For my NeXT I scored a few boxes of > >2.88's recently. > > As I understand it the Amiga software industry is in a bit of a crisis at > the moment because 3.5" DD floppies are no longer being made. Well, > they're also in a bit of a crisis thanks to the idiots running Amiga, Inc. > killing the market last spring when it will be quite a while before the new > Amiga is ready to ship. > > Zane > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Looking for pointers to old Control Data software

by jdykstra＠nortelnetworks.com

Gary Oliver wrote: > Does anyone on this list have pointers to old Control Data software, > specifically 7 track tapes (yes I can read these) and possibly > documentation (though I do have many of the old user manuals.) > I've tried contacting the lastest version of CDC and they offer no help > whatsoever. My guess is that Control Data Systems doesn't have any 3600 software, anyway. When I worked there in the 1980's, there were no 3600 systems left in the building (although the prototype 7600 was still on the test floor). It's also been a long time since they were supporting any 3600 customers. There might be some software in a corporate archive someplace, but Ceridian is as likely to have ended up with it as Control Data Systems. In either case, they'd probably only pull something from the archive if it was for company purposes. You might have better luck with universities that had 3600 machines. Michigan State was one of them; email me privately and I'll pass on a contact there. Purdue and Northwestern are other possibilities. Re reading old tapes, the following is hearsay, but it sounds plausible to me. Old tapes have a tendency to shed bits of oxide. If that oxide lodges on the heads or tape guides, and if the tape speed is high, friction may generate enough heat to permanently damage the tape and also the heads. Thus, it is prudent to carefully clean the tape before trying to read it. ---- John Dykstra jdykstra(a)nortelnetworks.com Principal Software Architect voice: +1 651 415-1604 Nortel Networks fax: +1 612 932-8549

27 years, 3 months

1
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IMSAI/586 [ Re: Multiuser computing invented! ]

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Seriously, how slow can you clock a Pentium and still have it run? I think it's dynamic processor like the 8080 so there is a minimum clock that is likley a few Mhz. <More generally, can you build an IMSAI style box (with more LEDs :-) aroun <a Pentium and be able to single step the processor? Well, the imsai front pannel would have little relevance to the activities of the CPU due to internal cache and prefetch. Allison

27 years, 3 months

3
2
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RS-6000 external cables, new - no second mrtgage req'd

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Dalco has RS-6000 cables that have the IBM mini 60 centronics to an SCSI 50 centronics now for $18.50 instead of the usual $45 each or more. You can see the item at http://www.dalco.com/cgi-bin/nph-tame.exe/dalco/conpin.tam?cart=99A20yke.ha… or use the search and search for item 57520. My understanding is that they are a slight backorder though, but worth the wait if you want to use that PS/2 with external SCSI units. I may actually get my 8595/XP server online again, this time with my cdroms.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
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Blue Thunder Z-80 card software

by bobstek＠ix.netcom.com

Does anyone have the software for a Blue Thunder Z-80 card for the PC ISA bus? I would like to get my hands on a copy. Thanks. Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

27 years, 3 months

3
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PDP-8 on e-bay

by dogas＠leading.net

<rant> Ok, maybe its just me. I'm a conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably step on my own mother to get at a cool computer (on my good days) and I spend alot of time raking though the ebayish trash to come across something tastey in a dark passed over corner of the sale. And just when you think you got a line on something, some damn smaraitan decides to post a billboard.... (no offense) </rant> I certainly don't mind those posts when they fall into the context of a discussion somewhat beyond 'Hey, everyone look...' I can understand publishing/reflecting a sale post that didn't come from public arena like ebay but I think anyone interested is capable of investing their own time searching for the things they want to aquire from that venue. Thanks, sorry - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

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Looking for pointers to old Control Data software

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Dear Gary: This is marvellous! I used to work quite a bit on a 3600 in 1968, and it is good to hear that there is some form of revitalization for that machine. Unfortunately I have not retained any software from that time, so that I cannot help you there. However, I would be very interested in hearing any information about the simulator you wrote. Is there / will there be a report on that project somewhere ? Could you send any description ? How do you simulate the console ? What do you do in hardware / in software ?? Interested in swapping ? I wrote a simulator for a Siemens S 2002, and I have a copy of the Algol compiler that went with that machine (no operating systems at that time, ca. 1960). The S2002 was a binary-coded-decimal 12 digit machine, the one I worked on had 10 K words of core and 10 K words of drum, and all of that is in the simulator. I have compiled and executed Algol programs on it - the simulation on a PC runs of course faster than the original hardware at that time; do you have some timing estimates for your simulator ? Very best regards John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 3 months

2
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More Books

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

I have been back to the library and grabbed some more books. Again, I will send to anyone who has a real need/desire for cost of shipping. People who are already getting books may wish to add some of these to their order... BTW I'd never heard of CORAL or PARLOG before. Anyone with experience want to comment? List: Ichbiah JD, "Reference Manual for the ADA Programming Language" ANSI/MIL-STD-1815 A, 1983 Dawes J, "The Professional Programmers Guide to ADA", Pitman, 1988 Barnes JGP "Programming in ADA", Addison-Wesley, 1982, 3rd edn 1989. Winters J, "Power Programming with ADA for the IBM PC", TAB 1987 Saxon JA, "COBOL - a Self-Instructional Manual" Prentice-Hall, 1963 McCracken DD, "A Guide to COBOL Programming", Wiley, 1963 Conlon T, "Programming in PARLOG", Addison-Wesley 1989 Grey LD, "A Course in APL with Applications", Addison-Wesley 1973, 2nd edn 1976 Webb JT, "CORAL 66 Programming", NCC, 1978 Conway R, Gries D, Fay M and Bass C, "Introduction to Microprocessor Programming using PL/Z" Winthrop, 1979 Marquette JF and Du Fala MM, "ADEPT User's Manual", Univ. of Akron, 1979 Trio JM, "8086-8088 Architecture and Programming", Macmillan, 1984 Royer JP, "Handbook of Software & Hardware Interfacing for IBM PCs", Prentice-Hall 1987 Cuellar G "Graphics Made Easy for the IBM PC and XT", Reston 1984 Donahue CS and Enger JK, "PET/CBM Personal Computer Guide", Commodore/McGraw-Hill 1980 Disclaimer: I have just typed in info from flyleaves. No warranty blah blah. If no-one wants the books, I am happy to keep any/all for myself, or give them to charity shops, or something. Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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Ebay: Very Old IBM Model 705 Tube-type Logic Module

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> > points 1,2,3,4,5,6... <snip> Beyond all of that this just logically dosent make sense if the intent is to make sure (just) that a computer gets a good home/is saved from the trash. If there is already an existing bid on an item, then the computer has been... *ahem* saved. And publishing an auction just because the current bidder is a non-member of this list seems a form of discrimination that says *we* know better. A service I would more appreciate Marvin, would be something like: Hey, someone *tried* to sell a system here and couldn't, here's an e-url... - Wheez: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
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Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

OK.. I guess I'll have to appologize for starting this flame war. Of the lists that I subscribe to, this one has always impressed me by how cooperative and sharing the members are. Every single day I see members donating their time, effort, knowledge, and hardware to promote the hobby of collecting computers. Unfortunately, It's threads like this that kill the spirit of the group. In my own defense, I'd like to say: I am not a "conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably step on my own mother to get at a cool computer". I don't think most of the other members would either. I hope anyone that does, gets exactly what they want! Secondly, I'm not just the guy with the bull horn. Just check the bidding history on the SOL and see who the first bidder was! I posted it in the group because, someone here might want it more than me. If they do, then so be it... If you check any of those listings you'll see they have really obscure terms like "computer" in the description. Now, if that's hidden in a dark corner where it'll get overlooked, then I'll eat my hat. Thirdly, there have been a number of times that I have intentionally skipped a bid when I knew that a member of this group was bidding on an item. IE: The "Ohio Scientific" thingy that Andrew Davies was looking at a couple of weeks ago. Sure I'd like to have it but, I wouldn't bid against someone that REALLY appreciates it. Fourthly, I for one am willing to share my good fortune with the other members. I'd much rather see something from my collection go to someone in this group that anywhere else. When I decide to get rid of something, you'll (group) be the first to know. Also, I don't think this set any kinda precedent. I've seen plenty of similar messages. Finally, I really do appologize. If I had realized that it would be taken so personally, I would have never posted it. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: Doug [SMTP:doug@blinkenlights.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 3:34 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote: > I understand there is more than a little competition for that stuff at some > of the bay area swap meets and perhaps that is where your philosophy comes > from. I've missed some spectacular bargains at similar swap meets, but I > also know the stuff went to good homes. When I first started collecting, I > might have had the same philosophy, but time has taught me that the real > bargains come through my contacts, not ebay. Most people who know me > realize I am not in this thing for money but rather attempting to keep as > much as I can from hitting that great dumpster in the sky. A side benefit > is helping other collectors. That's what makes your actions even more ludicrous to those of us who do buy stuff on ebay -- the guy at the swap meet with the bull horn is not there to buy or sell, he just came to advertise using his bull horn! Ebay advertises their service nationally, and they have a $10 billion market cap to draw from. I don't think they need your help. If your only concern is that every orphaned computer find a home, then I think the only right thing for you to do is to make sure that every one of the contacts >from whom you get your old computers has the name and phone number of everybody on this list just in case you're out of town when they call. You expressed concern when you found that somebody was willing to pay a higher price than a closing bid. Did you have that same concern when you paid a few dollars for an Altair or an IBM 5100? -- Doug

27 years, 3 months

7
7
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TRS-80 Model 4 for sale CHEAP ($10)

by nobody＠replay.com

My email: trs80(a)plbm.com Dual-floppy drive TRS-80 Model 4 microcomputer for sale CHEAP (only $10). NOTE!!!! THIS IS -NOT- A MODERN COMPUTER! IF YOU NEED TO ASK IF IT IS AN IBM COMPATIBLE, THIS IS *NOT* THE COMPUTER YOU WANT!!! Please see "The Catch" below. Picture available at http://www.plbm.com/trs80.jpg I just powered it on and it works fine. I have two diskettes; one boots to TRSDOS and I just ran CDRAG (Sea Dragon) off the second disk, so both drives seem to work fine, although some files on the disks don't seem to run. Notes: The little sticker on it says 16k RAM. I didn't verify this. Spare parallel centronix printer cable. Conformal dust cover included. See picture at: http://www.plbm.com/trs80.jpg THE CATCH I absolutely do -not- have time to take this to the post office or Mail Boxes Etc, and stand in line to ship it somewhere, even if you're offering to reimburse. Therefore, you need to come here and get it. I live in Costa Mesa, California (in Orange County) and you can email me at trs80(a)plbm.com to arrange a mutually-convenient pickup if you're interested. If nobody is interested, it goes to the dumpster in a few more weeks. DO *NOT* SEND EMAIL ASKING IF I CAN SHIP IT TO YOU. I WILL NOT SHIP THIS COMPUTER! I WILL DELETE ALL SUCH EMAILS WITHOUT RESPONDING!! lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Here's an analogy for you: > > Linux = DOS > FreeBSD = CP/M > > Therefore, Linux will come to dominate the world. So don't worry. I'm sorry, but I don't know the vital distinction between the two, and would like to find out. As I understand, Linux is somewhat less secure and less stable; but what else? And why is Linux less secure/stable?

27 years, 3 months

12
21
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IBM Thingy strikes again!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

For anyone that cares, I just got this from IBM . > >Joe, >I talked to one of the Field Engineers tonight who know what your THING is. >Believe it or not it is a piece of test equipment that is used to diagnose >several different types of IBM equip. AND it is still used today. In fact >he said I was sitting next to 2 of them this morning when I was in the CE >office!! They are used to test devices like 3380, 3480, 3490 Disk drives. >These drives are the humongo mainframe drives ( they stand over 6' tall) >although they are very old technology. He also said that the device is used >to diagnose communication problems between remote controllers and the main >system. He also said that as a stand alone device it is pretty much >worthless....unless you want to copy diskettes...but I don't know of too >many people who need 8" diskettes copied!. He was surprised that you >"found" one. He said that it could have been left behind at a clients >location by a repair person and forgotten about.....or the CE's use to keep >them in the trunks of their cars and it could have been taken from one. I >asked him what you might be able to do with it...he said (jokingly) that one >option would be to sell it to a competitive maintenance company (like bell >Atlantic) who would want them so that they could service IBM hardware.?? >> >> I powered up the THING today. It says it's a Stand Alone Terminal >>Exorciser, PN 08309930, date 01/84. It passes the self test and brings up a >>menu that lets you select 327X Tutorial, 327X BSC, SDLC/SNA or R-LOOP. >>Selecting the R-LOOP option brings up another menu for 8775 Device or 3276 >>Device. That's as far as I can get in the menu, after that it asks for a CU >>address or will autoscan for it but of course there's nothing connected so >>it doesn't find what ever it's looking for. Do you think you can find any >>more about it? >> >> >> Joe >>

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Disasters and Recovery

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:34 AM 1/18/99 +0000, you wrote: >What harm is gravity going to do, unless the machine falls off a shelf or >something? I read once that all solids are actually just very slow moving liquids. Apparently the floor of Ft. Knox (where a lot of gold is supposedly stored) has a tiny but significant amount of gold in it that has seeped in from the bars sitting on it. I would think that 100 years could be long enough for the drive platters to warp slightly (but enough!) or whatever else. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

more auction silliness...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201894731 shows some induhvidual selling some IBM family one machine, most likely a 5150 pc with a minimum bid of $500. Gee, i wonder if he'd buy my 'rare' 5140 for that price... lol.

27 years, 3 months

8
10
0 0

MITS Sherwood Medical S-Twelve

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I don't remember if I asked for information on this computer before. I'm looking for any documentation or history of this Sherwood Medical computer. 'A Brunswick Company' is proudly proclaimed on the front panel adjacent to where it reads Sherwood Medical S-Twelve (which oem'd this MITS Altair for blood gas analysis). The Sherwood S-Twelve has eighteen slots, a heavy duty power supply and the following boards, all made but MITS: 8800 CPU BD REV 0 4K STATIC BOARD REV-2 X4 88-2 SIO REV 0 8K PROM BD REV 0- X2 INVERTER BD 88-IS SH REV 1 88 (SIOB) SERIAL TTL REV 1 MITS MODEM BD 88-MUX REV 1 MITS A/D CONVERTER REV 0 If you have any information about MITS 8800s sold to industry as in this case, please let me know. Thanks, Marty marty@itgonline

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> >The reasons for collecting have been already discussed on this list a number >of times, but it is worthwhile trying to remember that for most of us, this >is a HOBBY done because we enjoy it. I don't know how you infered from my rant that this isn't a hobby of mine that I enjoy. I do enjoy this and have for several years *and* don't make money in this way (I do dispose of quite a bit of it though) although my intent is not to disparage the speculators out there. For some, ebay opens access to machines not otherwise available. I dont think Jacksonville Florida and *many* other locals know what a swap meet is nor do we have the likes of some of those bay area thrifts to so offhandedly dismiss ebay. And for collectors newer to the hobby ebay does provide a way to quickly backfill missing euipment. Don't get me wrong. The brainshare of this group is invaluable, there is no other resource like it. I wans't trying to flame someone into submission, just expressing my opinion. I guess if I already had an Altair or an 8, I'd probably be a little more altruistic. Naaa ;) Wheezer Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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Help with article

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

A few days ago someone posted a message about the February issue of a magazine having an article about collecting and talked about one of the guys on this list. Anyone remember the mag's name ? Thanks John

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Kaypros and Osbornes

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:27 PM 1/15/99 -0600, you wrote: >> Are Osbornes really that much harder to find than Kaypros? eBay currently >> seems awash in Kaypros for under $30... > >Both machines were very popular in their time and have no collector value >beyond whatever sentimental value they have for you. Well, I currently wouldn't pay for an Osborne 1 or executive, (except maybe a few dollars for a tan 1,) but I would pay for a Vixen or Encore. I would pay a bit for various Kaypros, but probably not as much as it would cost to ship one. My reasoning is that I have a lot of O1's and a few Execs, but only a KII. I think other people's reasoning is that a lot more people know about the O1 than the Kaypro, so that gets more interest/higher perceived value. Meanwhile, no one's ever heard of a Zorba, so I don't know why the two I've heard about sold for over $100. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

11
20
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RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/20/99 5:55 PM On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > their teeth" on Sun machines who will be flush with cash, it would not > suprise me in the least if you could get $10,000 for it in 5 to 7 years. > (Others might tell you that selling it for more than $50 + postage is a > crime against nature but don't listen to 'em) Ack! Don't say that! >>Listen to the reasonable people: $50 + postage is more than fair :) As usual, Sam is the voice of reason. PLEASE listen to Sam and sell me one of these. Marty Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan20.175526.1767.94090; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:55:27 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id OAA09870; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:05 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id OAA2 8474 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:00 -0800 Received: from smtp1.ncal.verio.com (smtp1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.82]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id OAA01 861 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell1-n1 (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by smtp1.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27340 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9901201451310.12444-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:58 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990120143043.00af6720(a)mailhost.hq.freegate.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

PERFEX Machine???

by sunmoon＠rmi.com

Hello! I thought this would be the best place to ask about a PERFEX machine... I am wandering what it is??? I have searched everywhere else and I found some info that says its a Computer that helps in Diagnosis of Heart problems.. ??? But this thing is not at all like the one they explain.. Any info?? Thanx Michael Sunbear(*)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

y2k stuff

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

You might look at the Charles Babbage Institute http://www.cbi.umn.edu They have a lot of stuff and are willing to copy at $.25 per page. John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 3 months

1
0
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WTB: Motorola MVMEbus module manuals

by cfandt＠netsync.net

I'm in search of several manuals for some Motorola MVME boards I have. Please reply if you have any available for me to purchase. MVME 236-1,2,3 (Publication number MVME 236-1 Dx ) MVME 133-1 ( " " MVME 133-1 Dx ) Support Docs: SIMVME133-1 MVME 134 ( " " MVME 134 Dx ) Support Docs: SIMVME134 and finally the Support Documentation (schematics, etc.) for an MVME147S which is publication number SIMVME147S. Thanks for your help! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Twinaxial pins needed

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Anyone know a good source for bulk crimp pins used in the Amphenol (and other brand) twinaxial connectors used in networks? I need to get a handful for the inevitable repairs that come up at work and a few cents each for two pins and recutting the coax is better than $8 and up for each for a new connector set, just to use the pins. Thanks for any leads you might have.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Wirehead Prime??

by bill＠chipware.com

Does anybody know what happened to Anthony Clifton (Wirehead Prime)? I was going to buy his OSI. He hasn't replied to any of my email or posted to classiccmp since before Christmas. Bill Sudbrink

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Hi Mark, If the Mac 128 is still available, I'm interested. I'm located in the Washington, D.C. metro area. I have a number of appliance (home computers) plus some Apples (II+, IIe's) available. I will post a list to the members of Clasiccmp of what I'm excessing sometime this month. marty(a)itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/15/99 7:05 AM Hi Everyone, I'm new to this list. I've been collecting classic home console computers for about two years now and have some items to trade and some things I'm looking for (either trade or buy). You can check out my collection on my website at http://www.markrandall.com. Regards, Mark Randall Play Incorporated ====================== Classic Computers To Trade: ====================== Apple IIGS (full system with monitor/printer) Compaq Portable (original) IBM PC Jr. KayPro II KayPro IV Macintosh 128 (original) Radio Shack Color Computer Texas Instruments 99/4A ================================= Computers I'm Looking to Buy / Trade For: (Console Home Computers Only) ================================= Acorn BBC Micro Acorn Electron Amstrad CPC 6128 Amstrad CPC 664 Atari 65XE Atari 520ST Camputers Lynx Canon V-20 MSX Dragon 32 EACA Colour Genie EACA Video Genie 3003 (AKA System-80 / PMC 80) Exidy Sorcerer Franklin ACE 1200 Interact Model One Jupiter ACE Mattel Aquarius Memotek MTX 500/512 (or RS128) Oric 1 Oric Atmos Panasonic JR-200U Personal Micro Computer PMC 81 Phillips Videopac Salora Fellow Sharp MZ800 (MZ821) Sinclair QL Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair Spectrum + Sinclair Spectrum +2 / +2A / +3 SpectraVideo SVI 328 Sony HitBit Sord M5 Timex Sinclair 1500 Timex Sinclair 2068 Toshiba HX-10 Toshiba T100 Video Technology Laser Compact XT Video Technology VZ200 =============================== Computers Currently In My Collection (Pictures at http://www.markrandall.com) =============================== Amiga 500 Amiga 600 Amiga 1200 Amstrad 464 CPC Atari 400 Atari 800 Atari 600XL Atari 800XL Atari 1200XL Atari 130XE Atari 1040 ST Apple II Apple IIc Commodore 16 Commodore Plus/4 Commodore 64 Commodore 128 Commodore VIC 20 Laser 128 Radio Shack Color Computer Radio Shack Micro Color Computer (MC-10) Radio Shack Color Computer II (low rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer II (high rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer III Radio Shack Model 1 Sinclair ZX80 Sinclair ZX81 Tano Dragon 64 Texas Instruments 99/4A (gray/silver) Texas Instruments 99/4A (beige) Timex Sinclair 1000 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan15.070554.1767.92508; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:05:55 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id EAA10867; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:56 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id EAA2 3376 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:47 -0800 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id EAA06 415 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id EAA00119 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <000d01be407f$37c600a0$ef5dd3cf(a)markr.calweb.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:04:35 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mark Randall" <markr(a)play.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-SMTP: helo markr from markr(a)play.com server @sac13-239.calweb.com ip 207.211.93.239 user=markr X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 3 months

26
84
0 0

PDP-8 on e-bay

by joe＠barrera.org

> Subject: PDP-8 on e-bay >Don't know what the reserve is. The same guy also has a SOL and a Rainbow for sale. I just found out... $900. :-) I actually work just down the hall from Gordon Bell... if he can't help me get it working, then probably no one can... :-) - Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:15 AM Subject: PDP-8 on e-bay >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58405239 > >Don't know what the reserve is. The same guy also has a SOL and a Rainbow for sale. > >Regards, > >Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> >HotOffice Technologies, Inc. <http://www.hotoffice.com> >Phone: +1.561.995.0005 x228 Fax: +1.561.995.5990 > >HotOffice - The World's First Online Virtual Office Service > >

27 years, 3 months

4
3
0 0

OT, but info needed: RAM uprade

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Slower clock speeds. This means that you literally can have a plug in <upgrade. You could also make one with a larger micron process and more <vertical and not worry about heating, but that gets to be bone headed. A <better idea would be to learn from competitors, and start making a more <economical way of producing chips. Your way off. First off intel is the process leader. But when you require everything to be 16bits wide like memory, address latches, byte/word logic and other nifty things to get to 16bit wide the cost goes up for the system. the cost to produce the 8088 and the 8086 was nearly the same save for the 8088 was cheaper due to volumes and not technology. <But I see your point... but remember, before being used on the IBM PC the <8088 had been on the market for 3 years, and probably in OEM's hands a yea <before that. very true. I was running a 8086/8mhz Multibus based system with 512k of ram and a 5mb hard disk and 1mb 8" floppies when the IBM PC was introduced. Needless to say I was appalled at it's terminally poor performance. <>The 386? < <Lower clock speeds... kind of a all-solving solution. Not hardly. <>The 486? < <The 486 was just plain dumb. You didn't really need a 486SX at all. You <could keep on making a 386, but Intel was afraid of AMD catching up to the <(with their 40MHz 386's and all). You could have also made a 386 to go in <a 486 socket. nope. The 486 executed instruction in fewer cycles and had several features that made it faster internally for the same clock speed as a 386. <>The Pentium II? < <The Celeron was actually a pretty good idea, too good. They should have <made the 128K cache at half clock speed like in the PII. A Celeron 333 <will perform better than a PII 300 in the same system, and you can <overclock the Celeron to compete with almost all Intel processors. the celeron is a pentium! it's more integrated with the onboard cache but it's also a fixed configuration so expanding it is harder. <Well, they did have a lot of proffessionals a lot smarter than I am workin <on the problem, and I'm willing to bet they had good ideas, but may have <been shot down somewhere between 'cost' and 'competion'. Also they were trying to get the x86 into the other non PC markets. <I'll say that I don't really like it, and that we could have done much <better. MIPS, SPARC, Alpha, all better than x86, and if they had <competition like the x86 market does, then it'd be a good assumption to <guess that the cost might even be halfed and performance considerably faste The dynamics of the microprocessor market is more complex than you think. If MIPS was so good it would ahve pushed out x86. Alpha is a 64bit cpu targetted at high end systems and the MicroVAX (32bit) was already well established and faster than 386/486. <Well, I'm glad that Merced means the end to this lousy architecture. It <wasn't until this year that we began seriouly getting rid of ISA, which, <aside from going from 8 to 16 bit, hasn't changed all that much since the <days of the XT. Note this is good for the collector side of me, but very <bad for the 'innovative, creative, etc.' side of me. Yep! Now all your boards don't work in the new machine and most of the older PCI ones don't behave either. What will merced run... pentium emulator so there is software for it. Allison

27 years, 3 months

11
21
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Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 15, 19:35, Max Eskin wrote: > In fact, I've always found the limitations of DOS and PCs curious. Does > anyone know why: > > *They refuse to boot from anything but A: or C: > *DOS FDISK refuses to create more than 1 primary partition > *DOS can't find an ATAPI cd-rom without a driver, even though it's an IDE > device Pass. > *Why we are limited to 2 floppy drives in DOS Actually, you can have 4, if you have a controller at the secordary floppy controller address as well as at the primaryfloppy controller address. Each controller can only have two drives because of a silly hardware setup chosen by IBM. On a normal SA400-style interface, there are 4 drive selects, and one of each other control signal; each control signal is normally gated (on the drive) with the approriate select line. IBM chose to use an arrangement where completely separate motor-on signals were provided for the two drives. The way they did this was to arrange the signals in the cable such that one drive used a particular drive select and the motor signal in the standard place, and the other drive used a different select with the moror signal on a different wire. Hence the infamous cable twist, such that each drive sees a particular drive select (it's the second select line) and the motor-on signal in the standard place. However, from the point of view of either drive, there is another motor signal on a pin which would otherwise be a select line for another drive. Thus you can't use all 4 drive selects, and hence only two drives per controller cable. Another way to look at it, is to assume that IBM wanted all drives to have the same jumper settings, including the drive select jumper. But instead of putting a twist in the cable which would just swap some of the select lines, they used a twist over a wider section. Unfortunately that also moves the motor control line to where a select line would normally be. Thus they need another motor control line somewhere else (where a drive select would be, obviously), and end up only being able to put half as many drives on the bus. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 3 months

16
46
0 0

PDP-8 on e-bay

by joe＠barrera.org

><rant> >Ok, maybe its just me. I'm a conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably >step on my own mother to get at a cool computer (on my good days) and I >spend alot of time raking though the ebayish trash to come across something >tastey in a dark passed over corner of the sale. And just when you think >you got a line on something, some damn smaraitan decides to post a >billboard.... (no offense) ></rant> I completely understand... but you have to admit, "PDP" is not a very obscure search string (it's among the ones I usally check every day anyway). So chances are pretty small that the PDP-8 (if that's really what it is) would have gone totally unnoticed. Now, finding something listed only under "DEC" is another story, given how many false positives it turns up (playboys, national geographics, etc.) - Joe (fellow conniving wheez)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

More Books

by joe＠barrera.org

>BTW I'd never heard of CORAL or PARLOG before. Anyone with experience want >to comment? http://www.realtime-info.be/encyc/techno/terms/99/19.htm http://www.realtime-info.be/encyc/techno/terms/6/68.htm CORAL 66: A real-time system programming language derived from JOVIAL and ALGOL 60. It was adopted as the British military standard from 1970 until the arrival of Ada. Parlog: An AND-parallel Prolog, with guards and committed choice nondeterminism (don't care nondeterminism). Shallow backtracking only.

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

PDP-8 on e-bay

by joe＠barrera.org

>Just out of curiosity, while the description says PDP-8, is it *really* a >straight "8" or did the seller forget to add on any important little >suffixes? Seems like that would make quite a difference in the price of the >unit. Good question... I've pointed him at a web site with PDP-8 pictures (Paul Pierce's) and asked him to identify the suspect. I've received at least one email asking whether I'm crazy. Well, clinically, yes. :-) But beyond that, I was severely traumatized as a child (well, in high school) and I'm still recovering. I spent most of my morning recesses (and many lunches) of my sophmore and junior years programming an IMSAI 8080 system, with North Star BASIC and floppy drive, Tarbell tape monitor, and a teletype for a printer. Then when I returned from Summer vacation my senior year, I found the IMSAI disappeared, replaced with (IIRC) an Altos MP/M machine. I was heartbroken. So now that I'm a grown-up and have a real job and some money to spend, I spend some of it on old computers. Perhaps I'm crazy. But not nearly as crazy, in my opinion, as people that buy mass-produced luxury cars for many tens of thousands of dollars... - Joe PS. Paul, are you on this list?

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Baa-aa-aad jokes...

by dogas＠leading.net

That shear is a turn for the worse.... ;) - Mike:dogas@leading.net -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Baa-aa-aad jokes... >> > > But where can you find a drive that can read a sheep? >> > You mean you've not come across baa-code readers :-) >> I have...but didn't have enough RAM to use it! ;-) > >Never drive a RAM - to dangerous. > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

GRID LAPTOP

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:30 PM 1/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > While out junking at lunch I met a gent who said he has a Grid Laptop > with a metal case (he said this model went to the moon) and uses > bubble memory. He said he'd entertain selling it but I've no idea what > to offer. Any ideas on what to offer or any info on this laptop? I'd > appreciate and info. Could be any one of several models. If it really uses Bubble Memory, it's probably a Compass (model 11xx). That, I'd pay a bit of money for, maybe as much as $50 if it's working. More likely, it's a GRiDCase and maybe worth $20 at most. If, on the other hand, it's a Convertible (2260 or 2270), you're talking real money again; I'd pay $100 for a 2270. The one that was used on the shuttle (I don't think the shuttle ever landed on the moon?) was (iirc) the GRiDPad 19xx, see my other message about those. If it turns out to be a 1535 (or other model with both the Gas Plasma screen and battery power), let Derek Peschel know; he's been looking for one for a while. (I have been trying to find one unsuccessfully for him.) Aside from the bubble memory and the magnesium case, btw, the Compass was the first of the clamshell style computers. Beat the Gavilan by half a year at least. (And no, the Gavilan wasn't the second clamshell either.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

5
6
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PDP-8 on e-bay

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58405239 Don't know what the reserve is. The same guy also has a SOL and a Rainbow for sale. Regards, Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> HotOffice Technologies, Inc. <http://www.hotoffice.com> Phone: +1.561.995.0005 x228 Fax: +1.561.995.5990 HotOffice - The World's First Online Virtual Office Service

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

GRID LAPTOP

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: GRID LAPTOP Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/20/99 10:40 AM > > The one that was used on the shuttle (I don't think the shuttle ever landed > > on the moon?) was (iirc) the GRiDPad 19xx, see my other message about those. > No, the shuttle never landed on the moon. (At least not that THEY've told > us about :-) Various shuttle missions have used the Compass, the 1910, > and the 1530. >>They have - I have seen in more than one movie a shuttle on >>the moon, and neither Hollywood nor my TV would lie (There is >>a nice >>B (?) picture, some kind of Dracula/Alien/Bermuda Triangle >>mxture, where they use Shuttles for moon missions, and from the >>inside they are bigger than the Nostromo ...). Thanks. At first I felt completely and totally foolish after stating the 'gent' told me the Grid had been to the moon. Now I feel vindicated. Hooray for Hollywood! Marty > In fact, NASA orignally funded GRiD to build the Compass just for this > purpose, AFAIK. GRiD stood for Graphical Retreival Information Display or > somesuch terribly strained acronym. Didn't know about that until now - I thought they where done as som high class luxury toys (liek mountain boots for the office:) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan20.104036.1767.93940; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:40:36 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id HAA27710; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:37:34 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id HAA2 1826 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:37:22 -0800 Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (nixpbe.pdb.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id HAA23 866 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from M23769PP (m23769pp.mch.sbs.de [139.25.241.35]) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA11093 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:37:02 GMT Message-Id: <199901201537.PAA11093(a)nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:37:03 +1 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: GRID LAPTOP In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.990119175753.27006B-100000(a)genco.haggle.com> References: <3.0.16.19990119145248.2a7f1538(a)ricochet.net> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 3 months

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Infocom InvisiClues

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 752 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990119/79a7b9a2/at…

27 years, 3 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

But where can you find a drive that can read a sheep? At 08:33 PM 1/17/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > >> It bears mentioning that the dead sea scrolls were written on sheep hide. > >Doh! > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] >

27 years, 3 months

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Heathkit H11 (was Re: Unibus boards for trade

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I'd like to configure a Heathkit H11 as a *small* PDP-11 with just CPU >(M7270 LSI-11/02), terminal, and paper tape. I have no cards for it now, >but I've got the M7270 on order. It works just fine... I configured my H11 box with an 11/53+ (KDJ11-D) processor. >Which cards do I need for RAM, serial, and parallel I/O? I know nothing >about DEC buses. Do I need a bus terminator or anything else? Also, I >recall that something about the H11 wasn't DEC compatible, but I don't >remember what it was.... I suggest you get an MXV11-B board. This has some memory, two serial lines and the boot code all on board. Then you'll need some sort of disk interface, like RQDX3 (and a couple of disks). You'll need to find a leprechaun box (external desk-top mounting box for RD series disks, the kind which go with the RQDX3). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

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Prime parts

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Group, I'm trying to resurrect a PRIME 2450. If anyone has spares or knows where to get them, I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 3 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Presumably you can counter the effects of gravity by rotating the capsule every 'n' units of time. As for semiconductor degredation, that can be mititgated by lower temperatures. Also when I worked at Intel we measured dopant migration which was not measurable when power was not applied. There were concerns that during operation the temperatures and electric fields generated would cause things to migrate and the chip to eventually fail. Analysis of 5 year old chips that had not been powered up showed no measurable change. Given that I don't believe the semiconductors will have a problem. However the EEPROMs and FLASHes can very well have a problem. The BIOS on most mother boards is flashed in and it requires that the system boot to flash a new bios in. Perhaps a tool to flash the bios in circuit would need to be supplied as well. I like the mylar paper tape idea. Although I cannot imagine how much tape I would need to hold a 128K byte flash image. Wait a minute, let me get some tape here .... 10 bytes/in so 13,107" or 1092' or roughly 11 100' rolls. That is a lot of tape and that is only the BIOS! I agree with Sam we may be relying on 22nd century technology to recover the bits from the mag tape. And while Tony's comments about restoring a PDP-8 or 11 are good ones, I suspect that in the 22nd century they would be able to fabricate one fairly easily. The goal is to create a snapshot of "current" computing as it is at the turn of the century. And it may be an exercise in futility to expect it to work, but my goal was to make a credible best effort to address those things (like batteries) that would be known to make it _not_ work. --Chuck

27 years, 3 months

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Kaypros and Osbornes

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Group, I picked up a ZORBA at the thrift shop a couple of weeks ago (25$). Looks like the Mother Board is fried. I opened the case and it's immaculate inside. If anyone needs any of the guts, let me know. Regards, Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pechter [SMTP:pechter@monmouth.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:46 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Kaypros and Osbornes > > I think other people's reasoning is that a lot more people know about the > O1 than the Kaypro, so that gets more interest/higher perceived value. > Meanwhile, no one's ever heard of a Zorba, so I don't know why the two I've > heard about sold for over $100. > Because the Zorba's are slick little CP/M machines? --Bill (a Zorba fan and owner) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org

27 years, 3 months

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OT Re: Reading age of 3 (was: Re: Computers for children)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> [1] If you read to your kids every day, spend your non-working time taking > them to museums, plays, camping, etc., work with them on what they're > interested in, even if it means giving up watching football, spending time > with your friends, and so on, then this doesn't apply to you. No kids of my own yet. But my experience of kids these days is that "work with them on what they're interested in" means that I'd have to _start_ watching football. And I find it hard to think of any activity more boring. But by and large I agree with you. Just don't forget what you keep telling us - your girlfriend is not a typical teacher, she is an example to the profession. Teaching usually pays peanuts, and the profession therefore has more than its fair share of monkeys. If we can get both good teachers _and_ good parents, even the less bright kids will go far... Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:24 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >What I meant was, in the early BASICs, you would have to type out the FOR >loop with a variable, an increment, a conditional statement, and a goto. Every BASIC I've ever used had a for-next construct as follows: FOR variable = start TO end [BY inc] commands NEXT [variable] No GOTO was ever needed. However, it is just a simplified version of a combination IF and GOTO. >easier to understand that the NEXT X must be going back to that FOR X= 1 >TO 10 I saw a while ago, as opposed to scrolling incessantly trying to >find where each GOTO leads. For-Next is pretty basic (pun intended). Do While/Do Until is not found in earlier BASIC's; perhaps that's what you were thinking of? Nonetheless, Using IF and GOTO to simulate a For-Next loop does not mean lots of searching for GOTO destinations -- if you are a good programmer, it doesn't. >I don't know exactly at what point the FOR...NEXT gets translated into its >components, but the point is, since it doesn't have to be typed out, it's >somewhat lower-level. For-Next is interpreted when executed. It is at that point that the relevant machine language instructions are generated and executed. Machine language is low-level, C is slightly higher, BASIC is definitely high-level, things like Powerhouse and other 4GL's are even higher levels of extraction.

27 years, 3 months

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picked up PDP11/23

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999 23:47 Subject: picked up PDP11/23 >Just thought I'd let the list know what I got today >PDP 11/23 PLUS, with DECSTATION across the front. >RT01 on top, an RT02 on the bottom. >Serial number of the machine is 320 - pretty low :) Nice catch...... >Now, to get the thing running... first I'll have to put a nail across the >circuit in my fusebox, as I can only run the dishwasher and heater... or the >TV and the microwave and the fan... or... you get the idea. The PDP cord is >10A, so I'm told :) You probably have a bit of leeway there, DEC boxes always seem to draw less than they say on the psu labels. My 6000-320 is 3200w according to the markings, but it only uses about 500. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.

27 years, 3 months

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Setting-up AppleTalk?

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You need to pick a folder on your macintosh and share it. Then on the GS, you go into appleshare and it will give you a list of the available servers. The GS can only be an appletalk client, not an appleshare server. -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:29 PM Subject: Setting-up AppleTalk? >Hello, all: > > I'd like to try to get my Mac 512k, Apple //gs, and IW-II talking >together. I have all of the LocalTalk (PhoneNet style) hardware connected to >the respective units. However, this is the first time that I'm attempting >any form of networking on my Apples, so I really don't know where I'm going. > > I know that you have to identify one of the serial ports as LocalTalk. >I've done this in the //gs Control Panel, and I think that I've done this on >the Fat Mac, but what am I supposed to see? How do I know that it works? > > Thanks again. > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><================ reply separator =================> > > > >

27 years, 3 months

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Interesting find -> Honeywell-Bull AP/M

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Where would I get a copy of Norton? (one of the many useful utilities I don't have) There's no Undelete. It has some Bull-ized version of DOS 3.2. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> > >Why don't you use UNDELETE or Norton and see if you can recover some files >in the ARCNET directory and/or others. If UNDELETE is not in the DOS >directory, I'd bring Norton to it on a floppy rather than write it to the >disk. > > - don

27 years, 3 months

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Bubble memory

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:31 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >Speaking of Bubble memory has anyone ever run across an Apple ][ bubble >memory card? No but I have a new Intel one for a PC. Joe

27 years, 3 months

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Sanyo 55x detractors (was:RE: IBM Floppy...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I nominate the Sanyo 550 series computers as THE worst computer ever sol <in the US! < < I also nominate the Sanyo 550 computers has having THE worst <documentation of any computer ever sold in the US! < < Any seconds? No but I'd counter that the average PC from the late AT clones on may set a new standard for non documentation. Allison

27 years, 3 months

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Multiuser computing invented!

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

Thought you folks might get a kick out of this ad in the new PC World: "This revolutionary new technology allows you to add a 2nd PC for only $149 to your existing Win95/98 PC (100 KHz (sic) or faster). With our _Buddy System_ - internal card installed in the main PC, up to 50 feet of cable and a little connector box, you can hook up a monitor, keyboard, mouse and create a new, completely independent PC. Consider this: Both PC's can concurrently run any software you have on the main PC..." Hehe...Made by Vega Technologies. Just call 1-888-654-5415 or visit www.vegatechnologies.com

27 years, 3 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Ward Griffiths wrote: >...I really wouldn't expect a modern computer to manage more >than a few decades at best unless somebody developed a functional >"stasis field", and we need a major breakthrough in theoretical >physics -- and the followup engineering -- for that to happen. >... Ward, I'm surprised! There are at least two ways to do this with current physics: 1) put it way down deep in a gravity well. It'll have to be a *big* gravity well to get the potential difference without generating tidal stresses severe enough to threaten the structure of the computer. Pull it back out when you are ready for it. 2) Accelerate it up to near 300,000 km/sec. Take a couple of months, of course, else you'll generate acceleration-induced specific forces which again might be dangerous to the classic computer. Run it in a big circle, then decelerate it again at the destination date. It'll be in *much* better shape than its twins left at home, per Al Einstein's classic. Followup engineering, I admit, needs a breakthrough or two..... - Mark - Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

27 years, 3 months

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OT Re: Reading age of 3 (was: Re: Computers for children)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:53 PM 1/17/99 +0000, you wrote: >Of course being cynical, I could say that it's easier on the teacher to >have to teach less complex stuff. I am not saying the the lowest students >are the easiest to teach, but the brightest ones certainly aren't. The >latter are likely to question just about everything that the teacher says >(as I was known to do...) Actually, that's not true. The easiest thing for the teacher to do is to give kids lessons that a) interest them and b) are at their level. Lessons that are too difficult are frustrating and lessons that are too simple are boring. Either way, you end up with kids looking for something else to do, which is generally cause trouble (for the teacher.) (Speaking from experience on both sides of the issue.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 3 months

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OT: Alien Media (was Disasters and Recovery)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> IC memory is a problem. Will they know what logic levels and supply > voltages to apply. Will data books survive? Very few of them are anything > like archival quality... > > It's things like that (+5V logic supply rails, TTL thresholds) that > we'll probably forget to include, but which might be _very_ important. Depending on how long we expect to elapse before the archaeologists get around to digging it up, I would tend to include copies of suitable reference books with whatever else is in the capsule. To take it to extremes, things like the definition of a volt may be needed... Philip.

27 years, 3 months

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TK50Z-GA EPROM

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 09:07 PM 1/18/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >> Hmm. You're comparing CMOS with TTL. The traditional EPROMs are not TTL >> but NMOS - very similar components (at the transistor level) to CMOS, but > >Were some of the early EPROMS PMOS? The 1702 might have been (the supply >voltages look like PMOS supply rails), but it's not stated in either the >Intel or NatSemi data sheets. > Yes, as well as National's (5203), as well as families like Intel's 1101, 4004, 4040, 8008, etc. My guess back then = around 1974, was NMOS was not used (much) yet, so MOS only meant pMOS. Another giveaway would be the negative Vdd. It puzzled me for a bit that some pMOS chips had no ground (0 Volt) pin, a 1101, for example, ran off a 14 Volt supply with the positive tied to 5 Volts so the pMOS outputs could drive TTL. Am sure there were very many others such as the AY-5-1013 UART and 2513 (in)famous character generator... One of Intel's last pMOS products was the 1103 1K ram. I seem to remember it was marketed as a replacement RAM for various mini's. This is _only_ 25 years ago, does anyone have a system RAM board running with these? (Connecting the thread for 100 year old systems.) -Dave

27 years, 3 months

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OT: Bomber navigation [WAS: Long term data storage (was: Disasters and Recovery]

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

At 09:46 PM 1/18/99 -0500, you wrote: > >On-board instrumentation on German aircraft was not that good (as it was >also not that good on English or American planes early in the War) during >the Blitzkrieg. Landmarks were often crucial. Stonehenge _may_ have been >a landmark, but there weren't that many targets (none that I can think of) >beyond it for bombing raids from the usual directions -- at most, it would >have clued the navigator to tell the pilot to turn around. > >Stonehenge was definitely neither bulldozed nor bombed. It would show, and >too many people have examined it since then. (And a number of groups held >ceremonies there during the war, not always with the permission of the >government despite the fact that they were on the same side). > >-- >Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> > >WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, >and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. > On the contrary, German aircraft during the Blitz used two fairly sophisticated systems of radio navigation called Knickebein and X-Geraet. The former used overlapping Lorenz beams to guide bombers along the flightpath to their targets, using super-sensitive versions of their blind-landing receivers. The latter used radio beams that intersected over the target; one beam provided flightpath direction, the second announced when the target was reached. The British expended a lot of time and energy locating and jamming the signals, and later copied the system when Bomber Command went on the offensive (called Oboe, I think). My apologies if the details above are inaccurate; it's been a long time since I read R.V. Jones' Most Secret War (great book, BTW). Mark Gregory.

27 years, 3 months

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mac tool

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/19/99 9:05:53 PM EST, lemay(a)cs.umn.edu writes: << Does anyone know where I can get the tool you need to use to crack open teh case of an old MacIntosh? I seem to recall that in addition to special torx tools, probably one with an extra long shaft, that you needed something to pop the case open... I'd like to upgrade the tiny hard drive in a mac se, and maybe in a mac plus 1 Meg, to use a 250 meg scsi drive. Any idea if these units will run system 7? >> yes, they will run system 7, but make sure you have 4 meg. also, get the updates so you're running 7.01 or 7.1 system 6.0.8 is smaller and faster too. you dont need a mac cracker to open those compact models. here's two hints: 1. once all screws are removed, try pressing on the scsi and and floppy drive connectors on the back while holding the back half of the mac. that usually seperates it. or, 2. undo all screws, then start them back in their holes about one turn. use your torx tool to press against the screws while holding the back half of the mac. when it seperates, remove all screws and take the back half off.

27 years, 3 months

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mac tool

by joebar＠microsoft.com

>>I'd like to upgrade the tiny hard drive in a mac se, and maybe in a mac plus >>1 Meg, to use a 250 meg scsi drive. > >Let me get this right, you want to put an internal HD in a Mac Plus?!?! >Somehow I really don't think that's possible. They're meant to use an >external drive. As long as you get the SCSI termination right, does it matter? I'll confess, I don't do Macs, but with PCs, I routinely make internal drives external and vice versa... ...or are you concerned mostly about space and heating? - Joe

27 years, 3 months

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IMSAI/586 [ Re: Multiuser computing invented! ]

by joe＠barrera.org

>$149 to your existing Win95/98 PC (100 KHz (sic) or faster). At 100 KHz, I think you're better off spending the $149 upgrading to a 1Mhz 8080... :-) Seriously, how slow can you clock a Pentium and still have it run? More generally, can you build an IMSAI style box (with more LEDs :-) around a Pentium and be able to single step the processor? - Joe

27 years, 3 months

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