- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by chrish＠kootenay.net

Chris Halarewich wrote: > Howdy > > Just wondering if someone out there would have a extra kickstart > disc for an amiga 1000 that they could spare to loose or copy for the > cost of > shipping + a few bucks? > > thanx in advance > > Chris > Castlegar BC CANADA

26 years, 11 months

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atari slmc804 printer

by tcraw＠erols.com

I have one if you know of anyone who wants it. You have to arrange for pickup yourself.

26 years, 11 months

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Interesting to note about Altairs...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> >I gather from many conversations I've had that many people buying the >Altairs see them as historic becaiuse of their connection to Microsoft. >Some think that it marked the beginning of the microcomputer revolution >because it launched the career of Gates. What these foolish speculators >fail to realize is that the game is not yet won, and they are leaving the >arena at halftime thinking their investment is secure. History will place >a very different value on their Altair because of what Linux will do to >Microsoft, far less than the tens of thousands that I imagine some people >think they may be worth some day. This may be halftime in a game that turns around but you still can't disparage some of the plays during the first half. I don't know how bg's career if factored into an altair's value nor do I really care. It dosen't seem much of a reason to me to go for a MITS. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 11 months

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Interesting to note about Altairs...

by edick＠idcomm.com

Since it's the GUI that attracts the idiots, I'd get behind an os that has features which would defeat any attempt at GUI operation. The real problem is that the people who buy the desktop systems don't use them. They specify them and then collect a bonus, quit, and go to work for the vendor of those systems. Back about 15 years ago we started seeing some really decent engineering software for DOS. You could buy a VERY good schematic capture package for $500 (I still use mine and have yet to see anything better, even at prices > $500k) and a serviceable PCB router for $1200. Today you can easily spend $2e6 and end up with something which does NOTHING useful at all under UNIX and does little more under NT. It's the GUI, stupid . . . that's the excuse. Today you routinely pop into the GUI, run the help and find there isn't any. Many of the software vendors of the mid-80's have taken their fairly decent products, reduced their capabilities, introduced countless bugs and octupled the price, relative to inflation. We need some really stiff legislation making it an unconditional, immediate, and irrevocally hanging offense for ALL employees of any corporation any employees of which endeavor to sell software which is not fully documented. That means that documentation must predict the behavior of their software precisely to a depth of all of 2^32 inputs. That will certainly eliminate the use of a generalized GUI! How many times have you been told " well . . . that's interesting . . . we didn't know that it does THAT!" Dick ---------- > From: Derek Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Interesting to note about Altairs... > Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 3:58 PM > > Arfon wrote: > > Micro$oft and Windblows. Now that I put that disclaimer out, Linux doesn't > > have a chance against Micro$oft. The vast majority of computer users (now > > and in the future) are idiots who don't care to learn anything other that > > 'click on this little picture to make it go'. Linux will do some damage in > > the server market and other places where you have to have someone with some > > computer smarts but, most corporate purse strings are again controlled by > > those same 'click-idiots'. > > > > I really wish GNU would take a good command line OS (like CP/M), make it > > 32/64 bit, and multi-tasking/user and add a GUI and try and compete with > > Winblows. > > This is barely on topic, but it was too tempting to reply and not just hit > 'd'. You have a good point, but it only leads to two objections in my mind: > > 1) The 'idiotification' process is already happening with Linux; there are > various projects out there (like KDE and GNOME and various other window > managers and package managers) that are attempting to make Linux look better > and present a "point-and-click" appearance. I mention package managers > because click-idiots certainly don't want to deal with the compiler. > > 2) Your second paragraph describes a process which is already happening with > Linux. What did you have in mind that is different? A different starting > OS? (CP/M, some free version of MS-DOS) An OS that's more intelligent > about hardware? I'm not being rude -- your ideas are probably good but you > need to spell them out. > > Then there's the matter of software. If your new OS is going to have > commercially-written software, that provides an arena for the evil forces > you described. (We might be able to avoid them, but the potential for them > is certainly there.) If you're going to stick to free software, well, > that's mainly written by idealistic geeky people who like to mess around in > the source. :) So that conflicts with the design decision of writing for > idiots. > > To keep this on topic -- What do you think will happen to the values of > classic computers? > > -- Derek

26 years, 11 months

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Help, yet again...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> > ...<ETA-3400 snips>... >Now I really want to find one... <sigh> After I get it built and have a chance to grok and run a few laps in it, I'll let you *BORROW* it if you wish... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 11 months

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Set-top boxes (was The new Amigas)

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

> On 8 Mar 1999, Eric Smith wrote: >>Why wouldn't you count CD32? If they do a new set-top, and it fails, and > > OK, let's say we made up a chronological list of every set-top box ever > made. Now, we scratch off the CD-32. What other famous ones are left and > what number from first was the CD-32? I think this may be more impervious > to your semantic games :) > > Anyway, I guess it depends on how you define set-top (two can play > this...). Isn't a C-64 or Apple ][ a set-top box? Is a Sega Genesis a > set-top? What exactly must a set-top be able to do that these three can't? > > --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) A CD32 IS a set-top box, I think, by today's current definition. Said term wasn't around when the CD32 was. But this WAS there era, was it not, of the CD-Interactive? That also might qualify. Also Apple's abortive "Pippen" would qualify as a proto-set-top device (and something I wouldn't mind having.) I always thought of a "set-top" box as having several qualities: It was coming out of the stereo-system/VCR/video game consumer orientation. Which means, among other things, that the remote control comes first and the keyboard is an option. You as user are some distance from the device, not seated in front stabbing at buttons. (Commodores and Apples get disqualified for this reason.) Second, there's some sense of not "turning it on and watching it boot" which has come to pervade computers.

26 years, 11 months

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vax behaviors

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

I installed an ESDI disk in my uVax. It didn't work. I took it apart and discovered that the cable had been caught in the door and had ripped (flat cable). Disconnected it and the drive and the system doesn't come up to a prompt anymore. Sometimes the display on the back goes to 'F' and sometimes to 'C'. I've also noticed that my DC-OK light isn't lighting up. Is is possible I've toasted some aspect of the pwr supply? (perhaps just switching it on and off has done this) --Chuck

26 years, 11 months

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PDP-11 (Qbus) disk question

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I've got several PDP-11's, all unibus - that use the RQDX2 controller. If you have Unibus, you can't possibly be using an RQDX2 controller. RQDXn series was Qbus only... (the only Unibus machine it might work in is the 11/84, but only in the qbus portion of the machine). >A friend of mine just came up with a 380mb Maxtor ESDI drive. Will the >RQDX2 support it? No. You need an ESDI controller. Like the DEC KFQSA, or the Andromeda ESDC, or an Emulex QD-22 (?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 11 months

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vax behaviors

by mbg＠world.std.com

>AAAAAAAAAAARGH! > >I hate this, everything seems to be going fine and then suddenly nothing >seems to work. You installed the M9047, didn't you... >My slots are : > > +-----------------------------+ > 1 | CPU (KA630) conn | > +-------------------||--------+ > 2 | MEMORY 4MB conn | > +-------------------||--------+ > 3 | MEMORY 4MB conn | > +-----------------------------+ > 4 | M7516 | M9047 | > +-----------------------------+ > 5 | Viking QTO | - blank - | > +-----------------------------+ > 6 | - blank - | > +-----------------------------+ > 7 | WQESD (Sigma RQ11) | > +-----------------------------+ > 8 - 12 blank Slots 1-4 are Q/CD, the rest are Q/Q... You should order them 1/ABCD CPU 2/ABCD mem 3/ABCD mem 4/AB m7516 4/cd empty 5/AB Viking 5/cd m9047 6/ABCD WQESD 7-12 empty Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 11 months

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PDP-11 (Qbus) disk question

by mbg＠world.std.com

>How embarassing... my 11's are Qbus - NOT unibus.... Just trying to keep you honest... :-) Seriously, the comment still stands. The RQDXn controllers won't handle ESDI. When you go looking for a controller, make sure it is fast enough to handle the disks. About a year ago, I got an ESDI controller for some disks, but it wasn't fast enough (at 10 Mbit/s) to handle the disk I had... But the Andromeda ESDC (at 15 Mbit/s) worked just fine. Oh yeah, I just realized I screwed up too... the KFQSA is DSSI, not ESDI (so many TLAs, so little time)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 11 months

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PDP-11 (Qbus) disk question

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

How embarassing... my 11's are Qbus - NOT unibus.... -----Original Message----- From: Jay West <jlwest(a)tseinc.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 3:59 PM Subject: PDP-11 (Qbus) disk question >I've got several PDP-11's, all unibus - that use the RQDX2 controller. > >A friend of mine just came up with a 380mb Maxtor ESDI drive. Will the RQDX2 >support it? > >Jay West > >

26 years, 11 months

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9047 bus grant?

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

And with a uVax in mind, where does the 9047 bus grant go? The last C/D slot (4) underneat the ethernet or in the first non C/D slot ? (I'm guessing the former...) --Chuck

26 years, 11 months

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Help, yet again...

by mbg＠world.std.com

>IIRC, the ETA has Tiny Basic in ROM. I recall having fun lashing it up to >my new, freshly-built H-19 terminal and later, my freshly-built H-8 >computer via a terminal program (which I've long forgotten which) from >the HUG. Those were the days! :-) :-) :-) That's it... just rub it in... Now I really want to find one... <sigh> Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 11 months

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Interesting to note about Altairs...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>This is the point isn't it? Finding an Altair at a garage sale or swap >meeting in Bloomington Indiana would be like finding the Holy Grail in a >pawn shop, not friggin likely. Really? I managed to scavenge up a half-dozen IMSAI'S and almost as many Altairs in a couple of years in Southern California in the early 90's. Then again, I didn't just scout around at garage sales - I hooked up with the owners through local clubs, business associates, etc. Or I frequented places that do industrial-type surplus. I wasn't particularly targetting IMSAI's and Altair's, these acquisitions came about mainly in the course of looking for other stuff. There's a few lessons here, I think: 1. Never define what you're looking for too narrowly. There's lots of interesting stuff to play with out there - you don't need any particular brand/model/serial number of computer to enjoy them. 2. Be willing to call or visit anywhere in a 50-mile radius at a moment's notice. 3. Be dedicated, don't give up, and get lucky :-) I honestly don't think anyone can complain that there aren't interesting things out there to collect. In the past decade, I probably averaged 8000-10000 pounds of stuff a year (then again, I'm mainly interested in minis and industrial controllers.) Tim.

26 years, 11 months

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HP-85 belts/Capstan repair

by msg＠computerpro.com

Greetings to all: Since I've been absent for about a week, 800 messages have piled-up >from the list; reviewing them will take awhile so I'm posting this to report on the HP-85 belt/capstan issues status globally. The belts have arrived and are being mailed-out early this week. I installed a set in our HP-85 and they work well. I tried a new approach to capstan repair which I find works very well. Clean the capstan of old rubber down to a minimal amount of residue with isopropyl. Obtain a can of dipping vinyl (for coating tool handles, etc.); most hardware stores should have it. Remove the capstan/encoder wheel ass'y from the motor shaft. Prepare the vinyl properly according to directions with the product. Dip the capstan (inverted) at the rate of about 5 seconds for its length, being careful to just dip just above the bottom rim of the capstan wheel so that the vinyl creates an overlap of 90 degrees. Withdraw the part at the same rate as insertion. Immediately invert the part and place on a level surface in a warm place to dry for four hours. During the drying time you will note that any vertical asymmetry evens out. Repeat with another dip and 4 hour dry. The results were very good and tests with an old tape containing an 84 record program produced no errors (reading or writing). Attached is a small jpg which gives an idea of the appearance of the results (max mag. avail with the camera lens). Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum

26 years, 11 months

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AUCTION - Eprom Programmer

by ss＠allegro.com

Re: > Thanks Sellam. That's precisely what I'm trying to do. I want the stuff > to go to people who'll actually collect or use it. The auction lists and What if he posted the item on eBay, but with a non-descript title/meaningless like "old computer", with no explanatory text, and then posted a brief message here, with a pointer to the eBay item? The idea behind that is only a single message would ever appear for any given item ... he wouldn't need to tell the losers who won (they could check on eBay), and the mechanics are handled by eBay. > >I don't think he's been excessive with his auctions either. So far it > >seems to be one every week or so. I agree, and have no problems with it. I'd prefer a classicmp collector competing with me to having Alex Z competing :) Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com

26 years, 11 months

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KayPro II Boot Disk

by todd.osborne＠barnstormer-software.com

This boot disks seem to be all the rave :) I need one for a KayPro II. I assume this is CP/M, but I am not sure, since I never actually used this computer. But if someone can provide the disk, I will have a perfect KII. Thanks. Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: 2 Wrongs Don't Make a Right, But 3 Rights Make a Left! --------------------------------------------------------

26 years, 11 months

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AUCTION - Eprom Programmer

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 04:28 PM 3/7/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: >>Couldn't these auctions also be run on the ccauction list that Doug >> hosts on nut.net ? > >Chuck, I have to object to your objection. I think what Anthony is doing >is quite admirable. Yes, according to the recent ruling, gloating over ownership of cool gizmos is only appropriate *after* the acquisition - not before! - John

26 years, 11 months

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What classic equipment was rebadged?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Rebadging was more prevalent earlier when everything had to appear to come >from the same company, but these days it is accepted that pieces come from >here and there. Since the advent of the PC-clone industry, it is accepted that lots of hardware items are "no-name", with no indication of who manufactured it, where it was manufactured, and usually minimal or zero documentation about the product. (OK, some of this no-name stuff predates the PC-clone industry. Apple ][ clones in the Lasnerian mid-80's are also examples that comes to mind.) Tim.

26 years, 11 months

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Altair Computer enthusiasts..

by davidfreibrun＠home.com

Greetings, -Membership is at a healthy 42 members to the Altair Computer collector's club. My goal is reach 100 members by the end of '99. Spread the word! http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/altaircomputerclub -If you haven't already seen the parent website to this club please check it out- http://altaircomputers.org It's chalk full of useful info for Altair computer enthusiasts. -One of the most important initiatives of the website is to complete the owner registry of MITS computers including 8800, 680 and Attache http://www.geocities.com/~daveygf/registry/registryserial.html If your model is not on the registry, let me know so I can update the list. Of course your privacy will be respected if you don't want your name published. davidfreibrun(a)home.com

26 years, 11 months

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Capacitor xref help please! (TU56)

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Got a bad cap in a TU56 drive. Markings are as follows: 7330L, SPRAGUE, 100MFD, 55V-60CY, A5030. Can anyone tell me where I can order a replacement that's both electrically and mechanically (size) the same? More importantly, I've been scrounging the net for this info. Is there a good online resource I'm missing for xrefing caps? Thanks! Jay West

26 years, 11 months

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WTB: ASR 33 manuals

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Does anybody have a set of manuals for the ASR 33 they'd like to sell? Marty(a)itgonline.com

26 years, 11 months

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Interesting to note about Altairs...

by bill＠chipware.com

Since Sellam just made mention of an ebay item, I hope it's OK to mention another. Did anyone else notice that, in the pictures of one of the other Altairs for sale, there are _TWO_MORE_ visible in the background? God, you would think the people bidding on these things would get a clue... THEY AREN'T THAT RARE! Bill Sudbrink

26 years, 11 months

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I'm back (sort-of)...

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Hello all, After being buried under an avalanche of work, I've tried to catch up and resurface. 2672 messages in my classiccmp box this morning... Sorry to have disappeared on the couple of pending transactions, so if I was going to send you money or free garba^H^H^H^H^H^H collectables, please email me at my regular email address (A_Finney(a)wfi-inc.com). Some great messages in the whole pile, I just wish I'd gotten to them sooner to join in. And damn it, I missed bidding on that 21 year old computer (does 6' tall and 175lbs count as big iron?). I would have had him paint my house and then sold him by the pound for dog food... Good to be back, Aaron

26 years, 11 months

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HP 7475A Plotter

by tomeditf＠worldnet.att.net

Last year you sent out a request for info about HP7475A Plotter pens. Like you, I am now trying to get one working. DId you find a source for pens? Also, do you have any idea where I can get a plotter manual? Even xerox copies of the important pages would help. ALso, any idea what cable is required. Thanks. Allen Rose / West Palm Beach FL Pls reply to p025558b(a)pb.seflin.org

26 years, 11 months

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Interesting to note about Altairs...

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Sallam wrote... >How "rare" can something be when an instance of it goes up for auction >every damn week!? Doug Yowza noted that there is one Altair or another on >sale at ebay every day! > >This is insanity!! I, for one, am glad when people mention an item of interest on Ebay. I don't check ebay regularly. As a result, I *LIKE* being told if an item I'm looking for goes up there. That being said, I really like it when someone offers the item here first before it goes to Escr*w... :) However, I really wish an HP 2748 paper tape reader would go up on ebay :] Jay West

26 years, 11 months

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Doors anyone? (was DSD board)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> If you have the DSD-440 hooked to your PDP-11, you >> can just boot the utility floppy that came with the >> DSD-440... >You presume much. I got this box from Ohio State in >two racks of PDP-11 hardware about ten years ago. I >did get a lot of software, but I don't recall a DSD >disk. Seeing as how all DSD units shipped with a DSD diagnostics disk in the first place, I don't think anyone would complain if I offered "replacement" floppies for the cost of postage. The diagnostics disk that came with my DSD440 actually works with many other DSD floppy models, too. >> Never, ever, lose the hyperdiagnostics section of >> your DSD440 manual! >I can't lose what I never had. Want to help me not >lose it by sending me a copy? I will, of course, pay >shipping and copying charges. Sounds like a fair deal! Anyone else interested, let me (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com) know and I'll run off some copies and get the total costs estimated. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Apple //c

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I just got a //c over the Week End, It came with what looks like a sound system: the item is in a separate enclosure with what looks like a speaker and a volume knob. It's labelled "cricket". Does anyone on the list have any infor on this item? Power requirement, software that uses it etc... Thanks Francois

26 years, 11 months

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Doors anyone? (was DSD board)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

I wrote: > >IIRC, the DSD drives _can_ format floppies. > Tim Shoppa replied: > Absolutely, in both RX01 and RX02 modes. > If you have the DSD-440 hooked to your PDP-11, you > can just boot the utility floppy that came with the > DSD-440... You presume much. I got this box from Ohio State in two racks of PDP-11 hardware about ten years ago. I did get a lot of software, but I don't recall a DSD disk. > You don't even need a computer hooked to the drive > to do it - you just set the hyperdiagnostic > DIPswitch pack on the in-box controller to format the > floppies, and let it rip. Cool. I may need this in the future, but for now, I've got several boxes of real RX02K's, new, that I got >from a guy who used to have a whole pallet of various disks from various vendors. Before anyone asks, he's out of business, I got the disks in 1991, and there were only two shipping boxes of RX02K's. With all the eOverpay frenzy for nominally valueless classic stuff, I wish I had asked for a box of the hard-sectored floppies he had. > Never, ever, lose the hyperdiagnostics section of > your DSD440 manual! I can't lose what I never had. Want to help me not lose it by sending me a copy? I will, of course, pay shipping and copying charges. > Every DSD440 box I have (gees, there must be 9 or 10 > now) has a Xerox of the DSD440 hyperdiagonstics > pocket ref taped to the top cover :-). That sounds like a doc worthy of scanning and/or retyping for future generations of collectors. If I had a copy, I'd do it myself (hint ;-). > >> There were also bus adapters for the Unibus and > >> Omnibus available. > > It's a quad-size card marked "DSD 2131". There's a > complete schematic of the interface on page A-20 of > your DSD 440 User Guide. Looks to be maybe $15 in > TTL chips. Most excellent. I happen to have a quad DEC prototype wire-wrap board. This might make an good use of it (if I don't stick something like a 32K SRAM and SCSI or IDE port on that board first). Thanks for all the good info. -ethan _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 11 months

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Doors anyone? (was DSD board)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>IIRC, the DSD drives _can_ format floppies. Absolutely, in both RX01 and RX02 modes. If you have the DSD-440 hooked to your PDP-11, you can just boot the utility floppy that came with the DSD-440 and it gives a menu letting you select from several different diagnostics and format utilities. You don't even need a computer hooked to the drive to do it - you just set the hyperdiagnostic DIPswitch pack on the in-box controller to format the floppies, and let it rip. Never, ever, lose the hyperdiagnostics section of your DSD440 manual! Every DSD440 box I have (gees, there must be 9 or 10 now) has a Xerox of the DSD440 hyperdiagonstics pocket ref taped to the top cover :-). >> There were also bus adapters for the Unibus and >> Omnibus available. >I'd love to find an Omnibus module for it. Didn't >know it existed. It's a quad-size card marked "DSD 2131". There's a complete schematic of the interface on page A-20 of your DSD 440 User Guide. Looks to be maybe $15 in TTL chips. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Doors anyone? (was DSD board)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

> It's a bus adapter that's part of a system that > *emulates* a RX01 or RX02 controller. It doesn't > actually drive a RX01/02 (40-pin connector), nor does > it directly drive a Shugart 801-style drive (50-pin > connector). What you need is a DSD440 chassis, > which has a rather smart Z80-based board in it that > converts from the DSD 26-pin connector to the Shugart > 50-pin bus. Ooh... I think I have one of these with a Unibus adapter. I'll have to dig it out and open it up. IIRC, the DSD drives _can_ format floppies. > There were also bus adapters for the Unibus and > Omnibus available. I'd love to find an Omnibus module for it. Didn't know it existed. -ethan _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 11 months

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Help, yet again...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> >No problem Mike! ;) Alright Christian, schwing! >I've got my ETA-3400 packed away with the ET-3400 and a bunch of other >docs. I built both from kits back in 1981/82. I'll have to dig around for >the box (one of those *many* boxes we still need to go through after moving >into this house a year ago.) Found two boxes I'd never opened from my last >move into the old house 22 years ago! Contained good radio parts to keep >though :) > >Anyway, I'll have to hunt for and pull out the ETA-3400 docs and find a way >to make copies for you. May have to go to a commercial copy house and pay >as I've not got a new job yet (which usually comes with a copier ;) Is >that okay Mike? Any convenient way for you is fine with me. (Hurry! ;) ) >BTW, this was a really fun accessory to the ET-3400. Learned my first uP >and some basic computing from the ET. Hence, my lean toward Motorola's uP >families and away from the Intel types. > >IIRC, the ETA has Tiny Basic in ROM. I recall having fun lashing it up to >my new, freshly-built H-19 terminal and later, my freshly-built H-8 >computer via a terminal program (which I've long forgotten which) from the >HUG. Those were the days! :-) :-) :-) Cool, TB too... truely a magical little box. (My H8 and H19 is sitting on the sidelines waiting to talk to their brother...) In the mean time, I'll go back and dig in the old Remarks and see if I can find anything more on it >Regards, Chris Thanks! - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 11 months

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help

by normans＠escape.com

26 years, 11 months

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Doors anyone? (was DSD board)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Yup, and there is a jumper buried over on the side that is labelled "RX01 >EN" (presumably to enable it as an RX01 controller). > >So I think we've got it nailed as an RX01/RX02 controller, which is cool >since I've got an RX01 drive, but those are 8" drives and the connector is >only 26 pins. It's a bus adapter that's part of a system that *emulates* a RX01 or RX02 controller. It doesn't actually drive a RX01/02 (40-pin connector), nor does it directly drive a Shugart 801-style drive (50-pin connector). What you need is a DSD440 chassis, which has a rather smart Z80-based board in it that converts from the DSD 26-pin connector to the Shugart 50-pin bus. There were also bus adapters for the Unibus and Omnibus available. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Help, yet again...

by dogas＠leading.net

OK, here's a challenge that I hope one (or more) of you will rise too. I found something I didn't even know existed. It's the Heathkit Memory I/O Accessory ETA-3400. Woo Hoo!!! Its the expansion box for the 6800 based ET-3400 Microprocessor Learning System (one of my favorite toys.) Now for the good news, and too my dilema. It's still it kit form with all the parts! ;))) I get to build it. I guess I'll need the assembly/op docs for it. An external examination reveals rca jacks for 'tape input' and 'tape output' and also a rs-232 port. I gotta get this thing up.... help! And, with Sydex and other hp150 wares on import from Joe, the aformentioned printer is available to anyone who wants it. Also, last call on the mechanical adder, else it will go to eBay and make me millionz iz tellz ya. ;) -Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 11 months

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18 Classic Computers Delivered, a beaut day.

by guerney＠uq.net.au

26 years, 11 months

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PDP8/e /l music compiler

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I have a listing (green bar) of the PDP 8/e and /l music compiler. Is this something of value to someone, or has this already been archived someplace? As far as I know, this may have been written here at the U of Minnesota. I assume the Pascal Compiler that was written here is already available someplace (it was once distributed by Decus). I have the original floppies that were submitted to decus and returned by decus. -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 11 months

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Anyone want a Kontron?

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Somehow, I have doubts that I'd be able to sell this at the local swap meets, and I'd rather it go to someone who may be able to use it anyway. I've got an old EPROM/PROM programmer, built into a nice Zero/Haliburton aluminum briefcase. It's a Kontron MPP-80, comes with a couple of adapters and its manuals, and it also has a built-in UV unit to erase EPROMs with. When I first got it, it would not fire up. After some intensive troubleshooting, I found and fixed a couple of problems in the power supply. It seems fine now, but I have absolutely no use for it. If there's no interest here, I'll post the thing to Haggle. I wanted to check with you lot first. If you're interested, drop me a note with an offer. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 11 months

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NEED A BOOT DISK :)

by chrish＠kootenay.net

Howdy Just wondering if someone out there would have a extra kickstart disc for an amiga 1000 that they could spare to loose for the cost of shipping + a few bucks? thanx in advance Chris Castlegar BC CANADA

26 years, 11 months

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Help, yet again...

by mbg＠world.std.com

>OK, here's a challenge that I hope one (or more) of you will rise too. >I found something I didn't even know existed. It's the Heathkit Memory >I/O Accessory ETA-3400. Woo Hoo!!! Its the expansion box for the 6800 >based ET-3400 Microprocessor Learning System (one of my favorite toys.) >Now for the good news, and too my dilema. It's still it kit form with >all the parts! ;))) I get to build it. I guess I'll need the >assembly/op docs for it. An external examination reveals rca jacks for >'tape input' and 'tape output' and also a rs-232 port. I gotta get this >thing up.... help! Hey, neat! I have my ET-3400 still, and I also didn't know one of those existed. If you find a second one, I would be much appreciative if you would send me a pointer... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 12 months

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Sharp bubble memory cartrige

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

I promised to mail a Sharp CE100D bubble memory cartrige to someone and I've lost the e-mail with the address, name, etc. Whoever you were, would you accept my humble appologies and send me your addy again? -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

26 years, 12 months

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Help, yet again...

by mbg＠world.std.com

Sure are...

26 years, 12 months

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Help, yet again...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> >Hey, neat! I have my ET-3400 still, and I also didn't know one of >those existed. If you find a second one, I would be much appreciative >if you would send me a pointer... Will do Megan! They (et3400s) are fun, arent they... ;) - Mike:dogas@leading.net

26 years, 12 months

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Help, need a Board ID from Data Systems Design

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I've got a Q-bus board I can't identify, its labelled: > Data Systems Design > 44432-4 I know DSD made RX02/RL02 disk emulators... maybe it is a controller for one of them? See if there is a 'chip' which has bands of metal -- almost like a set of fuses... this is used to configure it. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 12 months

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Doors anyone? (was DSD board)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Yup, and there is a jumper buried over on the side that is labelled "RX01 >EN" (presumably to enable it as an RX01 controller). >So I think we've got it nailed as an RX01/RX02 controller, which is cool >since I've got an RX01 drive, but those are 8" drives and the connector >is only 26 pins. What I'm looking for is an M7555 or equivalent to >control a couple of RX33's on one of the uVaxen (and RX33s too). My plan >being that if I can re-configure a loadable media type on my second uVax >it would be something tradeable in the future. Be careful... it wants to talk to the RX01/02 equivalent designed by DSD... it most probably will NOT speak to a true DEC RX01/RX02 drive... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 12 months

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Most recent haul

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Saturday evening I went to a friend's business who was subleasing part of his shop to a gentleman doing 'surplus' here in Southern California. The gentleman regretfully passed away suddenly around New Years, leaving a lot of Stuff behind, which we are liquidating for the man's estate and widow. So: here are some DEC/classiccmp related items, a few of which might be of some interest to list-members. I bought these items as a lot, and will indicate which are available to the Community. (*) Two Siemens System 300 desktop card readers, still set up for 230vac/50htz. * Some kind of DEC test box, in a large blue alum. case, marked only model 93-07402, containing an RX02 disk and a printset; the disk is marked DGSBA.A11 (S/X REC.) and the printsets are marked SX TRANSLATOR.* Three nice leather shipping cases containing RL01/2 disks: in one, three disks RLO1K DX-T502K-MC CZZLDK0 DLDP V2 RL1 DIAG Pkg 1 Pkg 2 Pkg 3 in the second, 2 disks RL02K BC-EH95I-MC CZZLOTTO DLDP V2 R2 DIAG Scratch In the third, 2 disks RL02K BC-FI18S-DE 000MUB9526 VAX 8600/8650 CNSL W/DIAG (Both disks marked the same) * A PMK05 Unibus Exerciser w/doc and two paper tapes marked: MAINDEC-11-DZKUA-C-PB 6/3/76 nr Unibus Systems Exerciser Diag. MAINDEC-11-DZKUB-A-PB 3/24/76 nr Unibus Exerciser Module Diag. A Wilson Laboratories SX-530 Disk Memory Exerciser, set and cabled for SMD devices (wooo-hooo!) With doc and adpaters, and a supplement for FUJI units. A Pertech card-sized laminator with a hundred DIGITAL logo cards and plastic carriers for them, waiting to be laminated. A Digital portable fiche reader w/two lenses (24x and 42x) [Visidyne]* A Massbus T.D.R. adapter for the PDP-10... hooks up to a Tektronix 1502 Time Domain Reflectometer to diagnose Massbus continuity and signal integrity. With docs and adapters. (No Tek 1502, though... damn!) Manual says: "TDR testing of Massbus I/O bus, Memory BUs, and Channel Bus. * A VAX 8600/8650 Backplane Repair kit and manual marked "Backplane Repair Seminar Manual" This kit is in a nice Halliburton case and is full of all those wierd and wonderful tools, all made of unobtanium. * A TU58 dual external drive with cables and M8043 and Pocket Service Guide. A PRS01 portable paper tape reader with service docs, many cables, and DLv11 card... geared for slow speed. A Digital-badged Termiflex handheld data display/entry device... looks brand new... two lines of about 24 Alpha LEDs. A Fluke 8020 Dig Multimeter in a leather case w/Dec markings. A T.I. Silent 700/707 Very Tiny terminal... about the size of an EPSON HX-10 or Radio Shack 100... in a well-worn heavy cloth carrying case, complete with detached acoustic phone coupler, power brick, and one unused roll of thermal paper. There is more DEC-related stuff still at the place, including maybe 6 or 7 temp/humidity circular chart recorders... more of the Termiflex units.. about ten more suitcase-type testers and exerciser boxes, and about a ton of non-list-realted test equipment I'm going to sort thru in the next few weeks. Any interest.. please e-mail and I will forward further info. Cheers John

26 years, 12 months

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DEC LA36 Decwriter II

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I have a beutiful example waiting for a less crowded environment. I don't usually rate gear by appearance but this one's an 8 or 9. It has a spare 20ma card and complete oper and tech docs. This unit is 10/15/30 cps, 132 columns... classic DEC console. Yours for the asking in Southern California.. will deliver within a radius determined by your ability to bribe me. Can not ship... I have way too many items to ship to folks already. Let me know. Cheers John

26 years, 12 months

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Help, need a Board ID from Data Systems Design

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I've got a Q-bus board I can't identify, its labelled: Data Systems Design 44432-4 Its a dual height card with a 26 pin idc connector on the top and two 82S100 chips. I'm guessing it is some sort of parallel interface... --Chuck

26 years, 12 months

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18 Classic Computers Delivered, a beaut day.

by guerney＠uq.net.au

For so long on this list, I have been reading about peoples "good days", "lucky days" and so on. Now at last, I can talk about my "real beaut" day! A local collector, not known previously to me, put a post on one of the "aus.forsale" newsgroups saying he wanted to thin out his collection, and he preferred a person take the "off-load" as one lot. Thanks to a "heads-up" >from Andrew Davie, I got in first (as it turns out, no one else offered to take the lot) and the previous owner even volunteered to bring it all around in his van. The delivery consisted of: EACA Genie III, an all-in-one 2x5.25" and monitor (TRS-80 compatible and CP/M) CPT 8525, an all-in-one 2x8" drive and page-view monitor Spectravideo 328 with 605 Expander containing 2x5.25" drives and 80 column card Hitachi MB6890K ("Peach") with Hitachi MP-3550 dual floppy and Hitachi monitor Hitachi MB6890K (another) with 3rd party dual floppy unit and two other expansion cards IBM 5150, made in the Wangaratta plant in Australia that IBM ran for a few years, with a 64K-256K board and cassette connector IBM DisplayWriter (Model 6580) with 2 x 2 x 8" drive units (ie 2 lots of double 8" drive modules) Digital Professional 350 but without its hard drive (but a double floppy) and 2 x VR201 monitors TRS-80 MC-10 with 16K expansion TRS-80 Model III 16K with no drives TRS-80 Model III 48K with 2x5.25" drives TRS-80 Model 4 64K with 2x5.25" drives TRS-80 Color Computer 1 TRS-80 Color Computer 2 with NEC PC-8032B dual 5.25" disc unit and TRS-80 Line Printer VIII VIC-20 Dick Smith System 80 cassette system Microbee Series 2 Colour Microbee Series 3 128K with Microbee Disc System (5.25" in large shoebox) And all the previous owner wanted ... a swap for my Apple ][+ which he needed for a project he was working on now. Thanks Chris, if you are reading this, much appreciated and valued. Shouldn't be too hard to find another ][+. Of these computers, the CPT is the least known (to me). I can find only one mention of it on the Web and that guy didn't even have a boot disk for it. At least I have some 8" disks (don't know if it works yet, still got to do the preliminary check-out before applying power). One of the floppies says "Tandon CPT" on it (hand-written) and a sticker somewhere suggests it was built in Ireland. I'd appreciate some more info on it. Hardly anything on the net about this chunky IBM Display Writer either, its not even on the Comprehensive Computer Catalog as far as I can see ... Anyone got a spare monitor cable for the Hitachi Peach's? (Luckily, they also have B&W monochrome output so I can see that this system works). Now, I've got plenty to do for a while ... Phil Guerney in Brisbane, Australia

26 years, 12 months

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old hp printer available, and...

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >>However, the reason I've replied is that I have the tech manuals for the >HP150 (schematics, programming info, etc), so if there's anything you >need me to look up (or if you need help fixing it ever), feel free to ask. Thanks Tony, you'll be the first to know if I get stuck once I start digging in it. ;) I think it works. It comes up in some kind of terminal configuration mode and eventually fails on an OS load... ;( What do you expect for $18. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 12 months

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Help, need a Board ID from Data Systems Design

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've got a Q-bus board I can't identify, its labelled: < Data Systems Design < 44432-4 < <Its a dual height card with a 26 pin idc connector on the top and two <82S100 chips. I'm guessing it is some sort of parallel interface... Sounds like the interface card for the DSD-880 disks systems. They were RX01/2 floppy and RL02 workalikes though they were fixed disks not carts. Allison

26 years, 12 months

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disassembling a monitor

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Okay, this is stupid. It should be a simple thing. But, as I always say, better safe than dead. So... Can anybody give me pointers on disassembling an IBM 5151 monitor? I rescued one from a dumpster, but it seems to have something metallic-sounding loose inside. Since it sounds like metal (and not glass, for instance), I want to remove it (or properly attach it wherever it belongs) before powering up. I can imagine all sorts of bad things that a loose bit of metal could do inside a monitor with the power on. I know enough to avoid the high voltages once I get inside, but would much prefer to get inside without breaking the CRT's neck. The enclosure is made of two parts; the front that fits around the face of the CRT and the front half of the bottom form one piece; the remainder is the second. When I set the thing on its face and remove all screws in the second piece, the front half of the bottom flexes inward under the weight of whatever is attached to it. It does this enough to worry me - any attached innards must be getting closer to the CRT's neck when that happens. Help? Thanks in advance. Bill.

26 years, 12 months

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AMSOFT on DISK

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

*nod* Ours were well into the million pages throughput. This was a college housing department, and we were running ALLIN1 desktop on our vaxcluster so an obscene amount of printing fell to our 2 LN03s (one per floor of the admin building). And yes again, the one that overheated DID have a fan motor problem. The fact that they stood up to this constant abuse speaks well of them, to be honest. And actually since I know the vaxcluster is still in place at that site (I ping it from time to time out of curiosity) I shouldn't be surprised if those printers are still there, 6 years later. ><Nice enough laser printers for their day, but they tend to overheat, if ><memory serves. If you get one, make SURE the fan works. Check. I seem ><to recall we had problems with those on a Vax site I worked on once. > >Only if the fans are missing or dead. I was part of that design team and >overheating was never a problem. The most common problem was a printer >designed for an peak use of 5,000 pages a month being used as a line >printer. They get a bit tired and cranky if they werent kept clean and >get over a million pages on them. Inshort they were commonly abused. > >Oh, one note... there are about 5 versions of the printer depeinding on the >logic (ansi, enhanced ansi, postscript, postscript/ansi hybrid, video engine ><part of QPSS package>). > >Oh the launch date is 1984 and production continued through 90-91 (memory >test). > > >Allison

26 years, 12 months

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historical question - paper tape vs. punched cards

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Just a curious question: Which came first, paper tape or punched cards? I'm not concerned about "invention" dates, I'm more interested in "came into very common use" dates. Actually, I'm not concerned about dates either - just which one came into very common use the first. Always wondered - thought people here may have an idea. Jay West

26 years, 12 months

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Weitek array processor and IBM 8" floppy drive: clues wanted

by svs＠ropnet.ru

G'day, 1. Weitek Multibus Array Processor. A two-board set for 16-bit ISA bus. Until recently, resided in an IBM 5170. Part number is 3002-0025-02. On the top board two largest chips are Weitek WTL1066GCD's, "FP data paths / multiport register files". Technical manual and/or software (math library?) would be nice to have :) 2. 8" IBM floppy drive. Visible markings: IBM53 51TD EC 786450 85-W 23 P/N 4240513 Where does this come from? DejaNews gives a clue, but no definite answer. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru

26 years, 12 months

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AUCTION - Eprom Programmer

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:28:52 -0800 (PST) Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> writes: >On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> I'm sorry Anthony but I have to object, we already had this >discussion that >> this was not the list to talk about Ebay and now you are turning it >_into_ >> ebay. Couldn't these auctions also be run on the ccauction list that >Doug >> hosts on nut.net ? > >Chuck, I have to object to your objection. > >I think what Anthony is doing is quite admirable. Instead of taking >his >stuff directly to ebay, he's offering it here on the list with a very >fair >auction system. He takes the highest bid by a certain date and sells >the >item for that amount. He doesn't disclose the bids, so there's no >chance >for last minute outbidding, and he keeps the winner's identity >private. > I'll second that. The whole purpose of this group is for hobbyists to help each other. By offering it here first, he's giving opportunity to those of us who normally don't get them . . .. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

26 years, 12 months

1
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OT? Tek Scopes

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Visiting a surplus shop today, I found a small herd of Tek Oscilliscopes. Some of them looked pretty old to me. They want real money for them too. Details: Model Mod 1 Mod 2 Cart ----- ----- ----- ----- 564 3C66 2B67 564 3A74 2B67 Y 504 Y 561A 3A72 2B67 5111 5A20N 5B10N 515A Y 549 1a1 Y D11 5A14N 5B10N Y 504 564B 3A9 3B4 Prices were originally $200 for most of them, except the 549, which was $400. Some of them had been marked down to $100. They have some kind of automatic decrease in price based on how long things stay in the store (1% per day?), but most of them have been there only since late February. And I don't know how that effects the ones that were "manually" marked down. I suspect these prices are outlandish. The same place wants $25 for 2400 baud modems. :-) Anyway, the age-based discount may eventually make the prices more reasonable. At least for the scopes, if not the modems. The ones marked "Y" under "Cart" had a "Scope-Mobile" cart with them. But I didn't think to get model numbers from those. Oh, and I can't guarantee that these work. I didn't ask if they would allow me to test them, and at present I don't know enough to be able to test them anyway. I also can't guarantee that they'll still be there when I next visit. Questions: 0. How old are these guys? 1. Are any of these potentially useful for computer work? Can they handle the frequencies used in old machines, say, up to a few MHz? (Judging from their apparent age, I wouldn't hope for much more than that.) 2. Anybody want one? Be aware that in addition to the price tag, I wouldn't expect these guys to be easy or cheap to ship. (At least one time in the past I have had to back out of a deal because I couldn't arrange shipping within cost & safety constraints.) And the carts are probably too big to go through UPS or USPS. Given all that, if you want one, let me know. Cheers, Bill.

26 years, 12 months

6
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poly-XFER for DEC VT180 or DECmate II

by djenner＠halcyon.com

I got some docs (still shrink wrapped!) for poly-XFER CP/M Comms for the DEC VT-180 or DECmate II running CP/M. You could probably find the disks for this at ftp.update.uu.se? If anyone would like these, let me know. Dave

26 years, 12 months

1
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Cursor newsletter

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Cursor. That reminds me of that TV show in the early 80s. Wasn't it >called "Automan"? It was this dude who somehow got transmutated with his >computer and was like a digital superhero. His sidekick was a flashing >star called Cursor. It didn't last long. Good memory... yep.. "Automan" - a holographic projection which was called Automan because "He's the world's first truly automatic man." (I'm not going to go there...) Anyway, the actor who played Automan is the one doing the Xyban (Zyban?) ads on TV... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 12 months

3
2
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Capacitor xref help please! (TU56)

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

You wrote... >Have you tried a motor repair place? This sounds like a fairly standard >'run capacitor' for an induction motor. Tried several local places no one has it so I was looking through the digikey catalog... >Just out of curiousity, why do you think it's bad? Is it leaking or >something? Motor problems on TU56s are normally caused by the transistors >on the G848 card (or problems on the G847). It was just a guess given the one inch tall electrolyte snake growing out of the top of the can :) Long as I'm in there working on it I was going to replace all four (is this overkill)? Jay

26 years, 12 months

2
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DECmate III software needed.

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I'm trying to help a friend of mine get his DECmate III running again. Does anyone have any word-processing software for one? Joe

26 years, 12 months

3
2
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Computer education

by max82＠surfree.com

Hi folks, Today was the first day of my free networking course at school, at the end of which I will have received a certificate 'n stuff...anyway, the guy was trying to explain layered protocol stacks, and data abstraction. It occured to me that the concepts have no meaning outside the realm of developing the protocols or applications that use these protocols. And it's almost impossible to explain without referring to these realms. The guy was telling us how 'everything in the computer is in binary' but you need additional network layers 'because Word can't understand the binary and needs it to be translated'. At this time, I was thinking about my recent experiences with the PDP-8. I wonder, wouldn't it make everything so much easier if every computer in schools had a PDP-8 emulator on it, and students had to learn to make simple programs in PAL before learning concepts like the OSI 7-layer model, etc? Because, it was obvious that the guy was being forced to avoid saying the word 'function' or 'subroutine' since people didn't know what it meant.... --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

26 years, 12 months

4
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Computer education

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<recent experiences with the PDP-8. I wonder, wouldn't it make everything <so much easier if every computer in schools had a PDP-8 emulator on it, For concepts closer to the computer hardware that would eb a good thing. <and students had to learn to make simple programs in PAL before learning <concepts like the OSI 7-layer model, etc? Because, it was obvious that <the guy was being forced to avoid saying the word 'function' or <'subroutine' since people didn't know what it meant.... It's unfortunate that the course was so top heavy with out a foundation to hold it up. FYI: I have a copy of a pair of articles going back to the only MicroSystems (1983) That explains it fairly well in only a handfull of pages and then even provides a workable example wthat did not require rocket science to make useful. However the idea of data encapsulation, abstraction and arrays of data as objects are important concepts that need to be learned between adding two number on a PDP-8 in PAL and the higher level application of 5GL languages and networking. It's the side effect of knowledgeless people prescribing course goals and content. Allison

26 years, 12 months

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The TI 34010

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 06.03.99 22:42:56 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << > How does the 34010 do in handling bitmaps? > > The 34020 (and I believe the 34010 had that as well) deals with that > through > special bit-blit operations, bit-block-transfer and simultaneous > logical/masking > operations. This is much supported by VRAM hardware used at that time; > the VRAM chips have bitblt features built in. The performance was exactly Are you sure about that? Most VRAMs (certainly the ones in use when the 34010 came out) seem to be nothing more than DRAMs with a second address port that transfers one row of data into a shift register. The bitstream from the S/R is fed to the video circuitry. No bit-blit operations. The 34010 has instructions for raster operations (bit-blits) using data anywhere in the address space, and they don't appear to depend on features of the RAMs used. -tony >> There is in fact both: the processor can do it, but at least the VRAMs I looked at have some provisions for (simple) versions of that. What is most important is to use the bit-plane masking facilities inside the VRAMs - at least those generations I looked at, maybe that was later than 34010 times. John

26 years, 12 months

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CPT (was "beaut day")

by guerney＠uq.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Derek Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> >I'm not an expert on CPT, but I did have one of their dedicated word >processors for a while. (It may have used a Z-80, I forget. It had 3.5" >drives.) Do you know if your model was designed as a general-purpose >computer or as a turnkey word processor? This CPT 8525 has two vertical 8" drives to the right of that portrait monitor. Very heavy also. The 8" disks with it include CP/M and CBasic so it is not a dedicated word processor. Phil

26 years, 12 months

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collectible digital cameras?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 6, 9:22, Larry Groebe wrote: > It occurs to me that one candidate would be the first batch of digital > cameras. > So made the first consumer-level digital camera? Kodak had a hi-end > modified Nikon about 7 years ago, but I'm thinking the Apple QuickTake > 100 is the earliest digital camera I can think of. The earliest I can think of is the Canon Ion camera, about 1989, I think. It used cute little 2.5" disks made by TDK and Sony. They looked like 3.5" microfloppies that had shrunk in the wash :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 12 months

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OT? Tek Scopes

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 07.03.99 04:20:03 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Visiting a surplus shop today, I found a small herd of Tek Oscilliscopes. Some of them looked pretty old to me. They want real money for them too. Details: Model Mod 1 Mod 2 Cart ----- ----- ----- ----- 564 3C66 2B67 1968 3C66 _NOT_ general purpose !!! 564 3A74 2B67 Y 1968 2 MHz four-channel storage 504 Y 1971 450 kHz single channel 561A 3A72 2B67 1961 650 kHz dual channel 5111 5A20N 5B10N too new for my docs 515A Y 1971 15 MHz single channel 549 1a1 Y 1973 30 MHz dual trace storage D11 5A14N 5B10N Y too new 504 see above 564B 3A9 3B4 1968 unknown amplifier Prices were originally $200 for most of them, except the 549, which was $400. Some of them had been marked down to $100. They have some kind of automatic decrease in price based on how long things stay in the store (1% per day?), but most of them have been there only since late February. And I don't know how that effects the ones that were "manually" marked down. I suspect these prices are outlandish. The same place wants $25 for 2400 baud modems. :-) Anyway, the age-based discount may eventually make the prices more reasonable. At least for the scopes, if not the modems. The ones marked "Y" under "Cart" had a "Scope-Mobile" cart with them. But I didn't think to get model numbers from those. Oh, and I can't guarantee that these work. I didn't ask if they would allow me to test them, and at present I don't know enough to be able to test them anyway. I also can't guarantee that they'll still be there when I next visit. Questions: 0. How old are these guys? --- see above 1. Are any of these potentially useful for computer work? Can they handle the frequencies used in old machines, say, up to a few MHz? (Judging from their apparent age, I wouldn't hope for much more than that.) 2. Anybody want one? Be aware that in addition to the price tag, I wouldn't expect these guys to be easy or cheap to ship. (At least one time in the past I have had to back out of a deal because I couldn't arrange shipping within cost & safety constraints.) And the carts are probably too big to go through UPS or USPS. Given all that, if you want one, let me know. Cheers, Bill. >> 1. There is a book about old Tek scopes available at www.tubesandmore.com Above info is from that book. 2. Today, you can still borrow microfiche from Tek of ANYTHING they ever produced !! I did so for my 549 which is my main scope. 3. Here in the Munich area you find these things in the fleamarket newspapers and web pages; typically they sell in the DM 150.- to 450.- range. Right now there is a pretty nice 551 for sale since several weeks, 27 MHz, TRUE dual trace (i.e., two electron guns), you could probably get it for between DM 100,- and DM 200,-, but shipping of course would be PROHIBITIVELY expensive. If I did not already have three Teks, I would get it. These prices INCLUDE checking it out before you buy !! Regards John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 12 months

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Saturday Auction fun and finds

by mikeford＠netwiz.net

Sorry to repeat this, but I forgot to change the subject and didn't want to have start some thread of confusion (which it will I am sure anyway, but sorry). Once about every three weeks a place in Huntington Beach Ca has an auction of computers, its not what it once was, but it still is entertaining. Main course today was 1150 old 486 computers along with 500 other lots. I didn't buy any of the 486's (just 10 macs), but I did see and buy some interesting items. Epson HX-20, circa 1983 portable computer with a microcassette for storage and a builtin printer. This one has a expansion unit bolted to the side, and a nice slim plastic case the whole thing fits into. It must have some internal NiCads, but I haven't opened it up, and it didn't come with a AC adapter (but 6 vdc isn't too tough). Looks extremely clean, including all the rubber parts, like it spent much of the last 16 years in its case. Skiwriter word processing software is builtin, so is basic, but the only manual is for the former. Display is LCD 120x32, or 20 characters and 4 lines. Printer I suspect matches that. Almost forgot, one of its main features are the ports, serial and full RS232 via 1/2 inch diameter round connectors on the back. Texas Instruments silent 700 terminal. Looks like a typewriter, with a thermal printer and a acoustic coupler on the back. I toted one of these around for a couple years in the earlier 80s with a pager, and I remember a plastic suitcase, but this one is open. A&J Micro Drive, date on the back is 12/6/85, this is some sort of tape drive. The unit is small 1.5 x 3 x 5, runs on 4 internal AA batteries, and has a cable with a DB25 shell and 6 pins in it. Tape sticks in the front, slightly narrower than a audio cassette, and a lot thinner. Front reads SYSTEM 100, A:, and a active/low battery light. Things I didn't buy (and if somebodys wants requires quick action) A pair of Digital LN03 laser printers Xerox (I think) 645 S Memorywriter Three boxes of circa 1988 full and half height drives, most with some sort of card edge connection, others look very much SCSI. The HX-20 looks too neat to part with, but if someone wants the 700 or weird little drive I am open to it. The latter three big heavy items I am willing to facilitate, but not get in the middle of.

26 years, 12 months

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OT? Tek Scopes

by edick＠idcomm.com

To be down around $125, they've got to be in really sorry shape. I've seen junkers sold for that. The 465B might be lower in price than its older cousin the 465(A) because it's reputed to trigger less accurately than the (A) as a result of the compromises made in that model update. I've never seen proof of this, however. The 465's I've seen seem to sell around $400. If they're in need of work, which would make them go cheaper, they don't sell . . . Dick ---------- > From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: OT? Tek Scopes > Date: Saturday, March 06, 1999 10:36 PM > > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > I don't suppose there were any books for a "Tek 465B" scope? I picked one > > up a few months ago at the last CP/M swap meet, but don't have any doc's. > > What are working 465s going for now? I have heard prices anywhere from $125 > to $400 without probes.

26 years, 12 months

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HP 150 was Re: old hp printer available, and...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > I have a bunch of HP 150 stuff. Do you have a copy of the Sydex program >that lets you read and write HP 150 disks on the PC? If so, I can E-mail >you the DOS and some other programs Cool Joe, I am sans Sydex.... shoot it over! - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 12 months

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OT? Tek Scopes

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

Bill: FWIW The only to get them to come up with a realistic price is wait until after 90 days but before 120 days. Then talk to Van and make him an offer. I have dealt with them for several years. He has learned that my offers are realistic and 95% of the time takes them. He has dumpstered a lot that I had made offers on and could not get back in before 120 days. The magic # there is 120 days (the last week or the beginning of the first week of the month) That is when the dumpster gets very full. At the old location Van used to let me dumpster dive. I have not asked since they moved. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, March 06, 1999 10:25 PM Subject: OT? Tek Scopes >Visiting a surplus shop today, I found a small herd of Tek Oscilliscopes. Some >of them looked pretty old to me. They want real money for them too. Details: > > Model Mod 1 Mod 2 Cart > ----- ----- ----- ----- > 564 3C66 2B67 > 564 3A74 2B67 Y > 504 Y > 561A 3A72 2B67 > 5111 5A20N 5B10N > 515A Y > 549 1a1 Y > D11 5A14N 5B10N Y > 504 > 564B 3A9 3B4 > >Prices were originally $200 for most of them, except the 549, which was $400. >Some of them had been marked down to $100. They have some kind of automatic >decrease in price based on how long things stay in the store (1% per day?), >but most of them have been there only since late February. And I don't know >how that effects the ones that were "manually" marked down. > >I suspect these prices are outlandish. The same place wants $25 for 2400 >baud modems. :-) Anyway, the age-based discount may eventually make the >prices more reasonable. At least for the scopes, if not the modems. > >The ones marked "Y" under "Cart" had a "Scope-Mobile" cart with them. But I >didn't think to get model numbers from those. > >Oh, and I can't guarantee that these work. I didn't ask if they would allow >me to test them, and at present I don't know enough to be able to test them >anyway. I also can't guarantee that they'll still be there when I next visit. > >Questions: > >0. How old are these guys? > >1. Are any of these potentially useful for computer work? Can they handle the > frequencies used in old machines, say, up to a few MHz? (Judging from their > apparent age, I wouldn't hope for much more than that.) > >2. Anybody want one? Be aware that in addition to the price tag, I wouldn't > expect these guys to be easy or cheap to ship. (At least one time in the > past I have had to back out of a deal because I couldn't arrange shipping > within cost & safety constraints.) And the carts are probably too big to > go through UPS or USPS. Given all that, if you want one, let me know. > > Cheers, > Bill. >

26 years, 12 months

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printer ribbons

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I normally pass by printer ribbons, but these are strange, so I nabbed 'em. The ribbons are 1" wide, on spools with an inside diameter of 1.75" and an outside diameter of 4" (all approximate). I have about ten of them. Anybody have any idea what they might belong to? Anybody want them? Cheers, Bill.

26 years, 12 months

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old hp printer available, and...

by dogas＠leading.net

I just picked up a nice little HP 150 (series 100) and the 9121 diskdrive and the 82906A printer. I dont have any software for this machine. Can someone help me out. That someone can have the right of first refusal on the 82906A printer. If there passed, anyone can have it for the cost of shipping. And... Anyone enjoy *old* mechanical adding machines? I've got a Felt & Tarrant Mfg. Comptometer (20's ??) that looks and works great t (well, the 10th column has some problems) that I would consider putting on the trading block. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 12 months

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The TI 34010

by rmeena01＠utopia.poly.edu

The Atari Transputer Workstation (ATW) is an example of a computer that doesn't use a host. It is build upon a T800 transputer processor and runs the Helios Operating System. Another example is XTM from Cogent Research (does anyone have a picture and/or docs for this machine) which ran Linda and NeWS-based X-Windows system. It was also powered by a transputer without a host. The transputer only uses the host for I/O and for downloading the initial program. As Tony said, you can also boot from ROM and use different types of TRAMS to handle I/O without a host. For info on the ATW, I suggest you check out http://columbia.digiweb.com/kiffer/ATW/. For general info on transputers, you can see my webpage at http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/ppp/533/. Cheers, Ram

26 years, 12 months

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The TI 34010

by rmeena01＠utopia.poly.edu

If you need datasheets and info on transputers, then check out my webpage. I love transputers and I devote my entire webpage to it. I maintain a huge collection of programs, documents, specs, and links on transputers. The URL is http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/ppp/533/ Ram -----Original Message----- From: Derek Peschel [SMTP:dpeschel@u.washington.edu] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 1999 8:49 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: The TI 34010 Tony Duell wrote: [transputers generally rely on a host] > (1) is not so much of a problem. The reason most transputer systems have > a 'host' is that you can boot a transputer over one of its links without > having any user-written boot code on the transputer. This means it's easy > to develop for (no possibility of your (firmware) bootstrap having bugs > in it), etc. But you can equally boot a transputer from external ROM in > its own memory space if you want to. And hook a terminal up over an RS232 > port (the transputer's bus is similar to just about every other bus > you're likely to see, so you can have RS232 chips and SCSI chips, and > whatever, mapped into the transputer's address space). So graphics chips are a good possibility. *drool* RS232 is fine but it's not very flashy. :) > In fact one of the first INMOS transputer boards - the B001 - had a > transputer + RAM + RS232 port + ROM on it. It didn't expect a transputer > link to the host. This may be a good time to ask if there's an exhaustive list of part numbers and specifications for the various INMOS chips? I've seen lists (in a couple of mass-market books about the transputer) but I suspect they're not complete. I've never seen the actual data books. > Problem (3) is more serious - the fact that most (all?) of the transputer > chips are no longer in production. I guess that IS a problem. Do they show up on the surplus market? > > them; Sketchpad relied on them and Evans & Sutherland continued the trend. > > (I'd love to play with some of their machines!) > > Does anyone know anything about the PS/390 display from E&S? Not me. There's some sort of E&S display at the Computer Museum History Center but I don't know the model number. -- Derek

26 years, 12 months

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No subject

by terryf＠intersurf.com

Sorry Folks, My earlier message was about a DG MV/2000 DC (Data General). I've never claimed typing as a skill :-) Terry terryf(a)intersurf.com

26 years, 12 months

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The TI 34010

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

The TI 34020 is the (principally similar) successor to the 34010, and I have designed in my company our basic bread-and-butter product of that time around that some 7 years ago. This is machine vision, i.e. digital image processing. I do not think it is advisable to emulate anything. If you want to build the Perfect Computer (tm) I would suggest to use Linux as operating system, and write your own driver for whatever display hardware you see fit. The TI 340x0 family is best viewed as a totally general microprocessor, which happens to have a few special gadgets for image / graphics processing. There is nothing you could not do in principle by using any other microprocessor, but some things - in particular drawing graphics - will just be significantly faster on the TI 340x0. The basic thing to know is that in those days people were most concerned about putting graphics display lists on the screen, that is you have a list of triangles, lines, circles, and whatnot, and the hardware primitives (really microcode of course) on the TI 340x0 allow you to do that pretty efficiently. That in other word means, that _ON_ _THE_ _APPLICATION_ _LEVEL_ you must be prepared to hand DISPLAY LISTS over to the graphcis processor; in those times, that was done by people like AutoCad, e.g. John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 12 months

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No subject

by terryf＠intersurf.com

Hi Folks I picked up a DB MV/200 DC and the micro to load it. The problem being, I'm not sure how to hook it all back together. Anyone got any ideas or know where I can find info on the beast? The machine is ported for 48 RS232 devices, but I'm not too sure what its good for. Thanks Terry terryf(a)intersurf.com

26 years, 12 months

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Space shuttle computers

by edick＠idcomm.com

I don't know what all this stuff means, but NASA paid Martin Marietta, where I worked back in those days, a LOT of dough, and provided documentation labeled Honeywell and showing pictures, though they were not relevant, of a model 516 computer. I spent six months or more poring over schematics, struggling to keep my eyes open, and making note of any potential race conditions, running logic simulations, etc, just to document all the potential single-point failure modes and their potential effect. We found several conditions which seemed to be "bugs" in the system, capable of creating catastrophic failures resulting in loss of lives and billions of dollars' worth of equipment, but those were "ground-ruled-out," meaning that, for example, a power supply failure in the mode wherein it drifts completely out of regulation, is a "normal" operating circumstance and need not be considered . . . but, I digress . . . The fact is, dladies and gentlemen, that the proposition of the time was that the engine controllers were Honeywell 516's, whatever that means. There was talk of installing a 68000-based computer in their place because semiconductor memories were faster, and a system of that type was superior for many reasons, not the least of which was modern read-only memories would allow much better testing. The plated-wire memories in use on the Challenger engine controllers allowed fault conditions which were not detected to be inherited from a previous mission, which risks went completely away with the newer design. It's not hard to imagine that such an upgrade would save on power and weight, as well as providing much more testability. It should also be enough faster to improve the system considerably. Dick ---------- > From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Space shuttle computers > Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 12:17 PM > > (Just reaching the Internet/Shuttle thread :) > > > The best information I have suggests that the Space Shuttle does not > > use the Honeywell DDP-516 in any capacity, and that engine control is performed > > by the some of the IOP processors that are part of the IBM AP-101S > > computers. The entire AP-101S, including both the GPC and IOP, occupies > > about 0.025 cubic meters, masses about 30 Kg, and consumes about 550 W. > > A DDP-516 occupies about 2.5 cubic meters, masses about 250 Kg, and consumes > > over 1000 W. > > AFAIK the first generation of rocket control computers > (thrust, angle, etc.) had HDC-601 processors (with plate > wire core mem), And if I'm not completly wrong, the HDC-601 > is a DDP-516 compatible system. I don't know if the shuttle > engines have been equipped with them, since the actual > controlers are (since the mid 80s) are based on 68.000 > processors. > > And for the AF-101, I always belived the last core mem unit > was named AF-101F not B, as mentioned in another message. In > fact, I love the idea of using a /370s design CPU - It's just > the best OPcode design ever :) > > BTW, does anybody know if a new design is planed ? > > Gruss > H. > > -- > Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut > HRK

26 years, 12 months

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collectible digital cameras?

by manney＠hmcltd.net

> And are there other categories of products that might become future > collectibles? First mouse? Oddball mice? First hard drive? Seminal software, of course.

26 years, 12 months

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The TI 34010

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 06.03.99 10:25:15 MEZ, schreibt Derek: << > The TI 34020 is the (principally similar) successor to the 34010, and I have > designed in my company our basic bread-and-butter product of that time > around that some 7 years ago. This is machine vision, i.e. digital image > processing. I've read (I forget where -- maybe Micro Cornucopia) that the 34020 is basically the same as the 34010, except that it works with larger amounts of data at the same time. Were there any instruction-set changes? I really cannot tell, I do not recall the 34010 and do not hace any docs about it, though I do have everything about 34020. > I do not think it is advisable to emulate anything. If you want to build the > Perfect Computer (tm) I would suggest to use Linux as operating system, and > write your own driver for whatever display hardware you see fit. :) Well, the number of games on the PC is a very seductive thing. Then, 340x0 will not help you at all. I think Linux is very good overall. I plan on installing it on my Macintosh as soon as the quarter (school) is over. But there are some other interesting OSs too, and many of them are even relevant to the list. I've heard good things about RSX-11M, RT-11, the various TRS-80 OSs, FLEX, OS-9, SK*DOS, and others. There was also a competitor to CP/M which has been praised (possibly by Allison) because it provided some important services that CP/M didn't. Unfortunately I forget if it was by Northstar, Cromenco, or Ohio Scientific. Admittedly, many of those are simpler than UNIX. But a few are real-time, which UNIX is not. Besides, almost any design is interesting in some way. I also have visions of putting together a Transputer-based system and somehow creating vast amounts of computer power out of thin air. :) From my reading, it seems there are two main drawbacks: 1) Generally, the Transputer depends on a host. 2) Parallel processors are very powerful but they won't solve every problem equally well, and they present some very subtle and nasty traps to the student or programmer. Maybe it's time for Tony to come back into this thread, since he seems to be the Transputer expert. I have done quite some work on parallel systems; the efficiency and ease of programming depends _TRMENDOUSLY_ on the problem you are looking at; some (like Monte-Carlo simulation) just fit perfectly well, others (like running canned software) not at all. Of course, it will be mandatory for high-performance computing in the future, in fact is already today, to go parallel; in all cases I know at tremendous work on the algorithm level parallelization. My personal preference is in shared-memory parallel processing; the transputers are message-passing parallelism, which I personally do not find very useful. But that depends of course on the problems and algorithms I am interested in. > faster on the TI 340x0. The basic thing to know is that in those days people > were most concerned about putting graphics display lists on the screen, > that is you have a list of triangles, lines, circles, and whatnot, and the > hardware primitives (really microcode of course) on the TI 340x0 allow you > to do that pretty efficiently. I understand display lists pretty well. Many vector-graphics machines used them; Sketchpad relied on them and Evans & Sutherland continued the trend. (I'd love to play with some of their machines!) Also the Atari 8-bit machines had a limited form, and you could say the Amiga has them as well. This kind of dipslay list relates to memory layout and interpretation, rather than defining objects in memory. But it still makes certain tasks absurdly easy, instead of very time-consuming. > That in other word means, that _ON_ _THE_ _APPLICATION_ _LEVEL_ > you must be prepared to hand DISPLAY LISTS over to the graphcis processor; > in those times, that was done by people like AutoCad, e.g. How does the 34010 do in handling bitmaps? The 34020 (and I believe the 34010 had that as well) deals with that through special bit-blit operations, bit-block-transfer and simultaneous logical/masking operations. This is much supported by VRAM hardware used at that time; the VRAM chips have bitblt features built in. The performance was exactly equal to the VRAM theoretical max throughput, i.e. the TI processor made the best possible use of available memory technology. -- Derek >> John.

26 years, 12 months

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The TI 34010

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: The TI 34010 > Date: Saturday, March 06, 1999 3:48 PM > > > There are two basic types of multi processor processing, SIMD (Single > > Instruction, Multiple Data) and MIMD (Multiple Instruction, Multiple Data). I guess there are three: SIMD, MIMD & shared memory, MIMD distributed memory. (UMA & NUMA) > No, transputers are certainly MIMD. > > A transputer chip contains a complete CPU, possibly an FPU, a small > amount of RAM, and 4 high-speed serial links. You can actually ignore the > links if you want to, and use it as a simple CPU (I can't think why you'd > _want_ to do this, but you can) We did it for a laser printer. The transputer was doing the emulations,BitBlt,graphics, had the "big" memory & output shift register. Got the program downloaded from a NEC V25, which controlled the centronics & V24. Was very easy to develope, because: 1.) the transputer supported DRAM directly 2.) debugging was easy, because you could download the programs via link 3.) pin compatible versions with/without FPU (FPU was used only for postscript) 4.) Lots of application notes & support from INMOS at this time. Just my .0002 cents cheers, emanuel

26 years, 12 months

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The TI 34010

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: The TI 34010 > Date: Saturday, March 06, 1999 1:11 PM > I have the TMS34010 data sheet here, but what we really need is the user > manual. The data sheet has the pinouts, timing diagrams, etc in it - > hardware info. It appears that programming info was mostly in the user > manual, though. The tms34020 was faster, new instructions, bigger address & data. You could even attach a FP unit to it. > > How does the 34010 do in handling bitmaps? > Are you sure about that? Most VRAMs (certainly the ones in use when the > 34010 came out) seem to be nothing more than DRAMs with a second address > port that transfers one row of data into a shift register. The bitstream > from the S/R is fed to the video circuitry. No bit-blit operations. The second generation had something like mask/logical operations. Comes out with the tms34010. I should have the application notes somewhere :-(( cheers, emanuel

26 years, 12 months

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collectible digital cameras?

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

Having just returned from another depressing First Saturday trip - loads of PC clones and scanners, one nut selling a core memory board for $1000 - and oh yes, a Timex 1500 I bought for $3, I find myself wondering what possible post-Windows3-era stuff can be/will be possibly considered collectible some day. It occurs to me that one candidate would be the first batch of digital cameras. So made the first consumer-level digital camera? Kodak had a hi-end modified Nikon about 7 years ago, but I'm thinking the Apple QuickTake 100 is the earliest digital camera I can think of. And are there other categories of products that might become future collectibles? --Larry

26 years, 12 months

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Jumpers for Maxtor XT-8760 ESDI disk?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Does anyone have the jumper configuration for this drive? --Chuck

26 years, 12 months

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IBM mainframes

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 28.02.99 17:56:37 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << I hope you are not thinking about those 3380s and 3390s on eBay right now - $500 a piece?!!?!?!! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net >> I did, but transport is too expensive. I thought about building a controller, and adding these boxes (about 2 cubic meters each) to a PC in opposite movement to current hard disk evolution. So I will need to wait until some nice 14" drives come around. Some years ago, I indeed DID build a controller for some CDC 14" drives, to add onto a MC 6800 system (6800, NOT 68000 !!). That is not too difficult, since the drives usually contain already some hardware to take care of the servo functions, which is the most critical part, and of course write drivers/read amplifiers. Regards John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 12 months

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Jumpers for Maxtor XT-8760 ESDI disk?

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

The PCB part no on mine is 1014520F >On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> Does anyone have the jumper configuration for this drive? >> --Chuck > >I have it, Chuck, but the problem is that some of it varies with the >PCB part number. Is there any area in particular that you are looking >for, or can you provide the PCB p/n? > - don > >

26 years, 12 months

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IBM mainframes

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 06.03.99 02:23:57 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, William Donzelli wrote: >3380s are hitting the junkyards in record numbers now, so getting one for >free is an easier option! What's a 3380 like? --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) >> A 3380 or 3390 is about 3 x 4 x 6 foot, 1000 pounds, and from few hundred MByte to 10 GByte or so. Just a nice contrast to today's 10 GByte disk drives !! Thanks for the junkyard advice, I have so far spent much too little time on that angle here in Germany ! John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 12 months

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Jumpers for Maxtor XT-8760 ESDI disk?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've got one though it's not been used for a while. bear with me and I'll get you a list of jumpers. There are quite a few, though. Dick ---------- > From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Jumpers for Maxtor XT-8760 ESDI disk? > Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 10:16 PM > > Does anyone have the jumper configuration for this drive? > --Chuck >

26 years, 12 months

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Jumpers for Maxtor XT-8760 ESDI disk?

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I need these too. >Does anyone have the jumper configuration for this drive? >--Chuck > >

26 years, 12 months

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Mac IIci stuff

by max82＠surfree.com

Hi, Is there any demand for Mac IIci manuals and system disks? I may be able to spread a few around. Also, hypercard manuals. Some still shrinkwrapped. We have a pile of complete IIci systems that we don't know what to do with, since they've been recently replaced by Quadras and translucent blue towers. Any place that could make use of them and _not throw them away_? We might donate a couple.... --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

26 years, 12 months

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IBM mainframes

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 99-03-05 20:23:57 EST, you write: > On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, William Donzelli wrote: > >3380s are hitting the junkyards in record numbers now, so getting one for > >free is an easier option! > > What's a 3380 like? > > --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) pretty good size. think closet size. you could almost open the doors and get inside. impressive with belts and motors. certainly made lots of noise in the computer room i worked in 1992. I remember when they got rid of 4 strings of 3380 DASDs and replaced with one hitachi unit that had even more space. Technology improves so quick.

26 years, 12 months

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Transputer Books at Thrift & Used Book Stores

by rmeena01＠utopia.poly.edu

Hi, With the recent announcements of books found at the thrift shop & used book stores, I was wondering if any of you guys can keep an eye out for transputer books. I am currently looking for Helios Parallel Operating System. Thanks. Ram

26 years, 12 months

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Z3 builders?

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 04.03.99 21:09:08, schreibt Dwight: << Hi If I was to build an electronic visual computer, I would use neon lights. All the logic functions can be done with these and the results are visual. NE2's can be bought in bulk for a few cents each. I built a relay combination lock once but I used relays and doides to cut down on the number of contacts needed. Dwight >> You need SOME amplifier element; just logic alone would not do. Neon lights for logic certainly would be possible, but neither convenient nor reliable in my mind, since the difference between ignition voltage and burning voltage is not that big. Diodes are MUCH more convenient AND a lot less expensive than Neon lights. John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 12 months

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IIc vs IIc+

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

---Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > > > IIc external power supply $10 > > More like $5 > > > IIc matching green monitor $12 > > IIc matching monitor stand $8 > > $8 just for the monitor stand? Both together should only fetch $10. I recently picked up a //c+ (never seen one before), monitor, stand, external Laser 5.25" drive, mouse, two Imagewriter I's, manuals, no disks for $15 at a Hamfest. I considered it a good deal. -ethan _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 12 months

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Fullerton CA GSA finds

by mikeford＠netwiz.net

I was roaming the local GSA surplus depot and have the following to report; Pallet lot of DEC manuals about 5 feet high, boxes and boxes of ringed binders, and a bunch of paperbacks still in shrinkwrap. labeled $60 System Industries tape drive, like a VAX used in a 5 foot high 4 foot deep very nice cabinet. label $100 Large box of tapes 600 to 6250 bpi, I didn't notice a price. Pallet of 11 items, including old printers, but also a Tandy 1000, and a commodore Amiga, and other stuff I didn't ID. label $250 The routine discount from labeled price is 60 to 70% off, but they want to get rid of these items, so be creative. GSA surplus depot is listed in the phonebook and has a web page. http://www.pd.dgs.ca.gov/materials/surfull.htm

26 years, 12 months

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Reading old SCSI tapes

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> What Mark needs is a program that talks to the ASPI DLL to get access to >> the SCSI bus directly. Sure it can be done under Linux or any other UNIX >> like operating system on x86 hardware but when the tape drive is connected >> to a PC running windows and there is no opportunity to install a different >> OS, then this problem arises. Hmm, well presumably a Linux bootdisk can be made that'll have dd on it as well as a SCSI-based kernel and MSDOS filesystem drivers, that way no OS needs to be installed and the tape data can be written to one of the PC's hard disks... of course, this assumes that dd is sufficient to read the tape (as somebody pointed out), and that the PC is using a FAT-based filesystem on its disks, not NTFS. cheers, Jules >

26 years, 12 months

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Uncle Emery's Funniest Computer Songs

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Dunno about the build a mainframe from things you have at home song, but Frank Hayes' S100 Bus is a hoot. I find myself singing it every time I get into the guts of a PC, especially the verse: There's a board for the modem line and one for every port and a printer board and a keyboard board and as a last resort for every problem we will add a board that is the cure it's not too damned efficient but it's a mother, that's for sure. Well it's Cheer up me Lads, let your hearts never fuss When you're implementing systems on the S100 bus. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

26 years, 12 months

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Classiccmp digest #698

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, Could someone who is subscribed to the digest version of the list please (compress and) email me a copy of digest #698? I lost it due to problems with my mail software. Somewhat on-topic question: can someone recommend a program, to run under MS-DOS (or maybe Windows) that is capable of reading a file (in the tape sense) from a SCSI tape drive. Not interpreting the file at all, just being able to copy it to disk. -- Mark

26 years, 12 months

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Reading old SCSI tapes

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>Somewhat on-topic question: can someone recommend a program, to run under >>MS-DOS (or maybe Windows) that is capable of reading a file (in the tape >>sense) from a SCSI tape drive. Not interpreting the file at all, just being >>able to copy it to disk. >What sort of tape drive? If it's supported under Linux, and it probably is, >then 'dd' would certainly do it. 'dd' will also throw away all the original blocking information on the tape. Many platforms and OS's will depend on finding tape marks and varying record lengths, and if you just 'dd' the tape all this information is lost. I've made a good amount of money over the years recovering RSX-11M BRU tapes where someone transferred the tape through a Unix system with 'dd' and lost all the blocking information. Most Unix-like OS's come with "tc" or a variation that will display tape blocking information; often folks take the output of "tc" and use this to create a script of "dd" commands that will handle the various block sizes on a particular tape. Under RSX-11M and VMS, I much prefer "TPC" format, which allows exact tape images to automatically be made with all the blocking information preserved. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 12 months

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