- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Worse they give the specs of Megan's system, not the one they're trying to >auction off. Who knows what they're trying to auction off! Wonder if they >realize just how souped up Megan's system is. Wow... you're right... they appear to have copied the description for *my* pdp-11/23+ verbatim. I've sent them mail that they should halt the auction immediately as they are misrepresenting their item. They need to examine the 11/23+ they are trying to sell and figure out what it really has.... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I don't think that the card was marketed directly for the PC, but for 8088's with a free expansion slot in general. It probably came out in the late 80's (maybe even early 90's), for people wanting to upgrade their XT's to something more up-to-date, without buying a whole new computer. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 5:18 PM Subject: Re: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? >Jason Willgruber wrote: >> >> The other two options could have been a number of things, such as a >> HD/floppy controller, a clock/battery, and >> >> I remember even seeing one that plugged into an expansion slot and the >> 8088/8087 sockets. It had a parallel, serial, VGA video (on a separate >> backplate - so the thing actually took up two slots), high-density floppy, >> IDE HD, clock/battery, and 4 30-pin SIMM sockets. I wish I could find one >> of those cards - or find out who made them. > >Any card that used VGA would come along several years later after the PC was >introduced (can't remember off hand what year VGA was first introduced.) >Interesting comment about an IDE controller and the SIMM sockets for the PC; >I have only heard rumors that an IDE controller was built for the PC, and I >have only seen SIMM expansion boards for the 16 bit bus. >

26 years, 9 months

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Internet as delay line memory?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Wasn't something similar to this discussed earlier when someone had brought up the topic of storing data for 100 years? I think someone mentioned just bouncing the data back and forth between satellites, and just retrieving it whenever it was needed. Although that method would probably have a higher packet-loss rate. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 7:19 AM Subject: Internet as delay line memory? > >To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent >discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory >I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay >line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. > <><><>sNiP<><><>

26 years, 9 months

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PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME!

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Worse they give the specs of Megan's system, not the one they're trying to >auction off. Who knows what they're trying to auction off! Wonder if they >realize just how souped up Megan's system is. They what? They asked me if they could linke to my pages from their ebay auction, so that people could learn more about -11s... I said I was flattered, but I didn't think people would *learn* much from my site since I don't have explanations of how to build or program the machines... only descriptions of their characteristics... I'll have to check what they wrote... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

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Disorganised, but interesting. Russian COmputers...

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

As some of you may know, I'm mad-keen on Russian calculators and computers - see my site Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Although I dropped off this list some time ago, and remain off, I thought I'd write and give a "brief" summary of information to hand. The data here comes from my many Russian "agents", and mostly is the first time that any of this has been presented in the West. It's long, some is missing, but it's really fascinating, no? PLEASE DO NOT POST THIS DATA ON YOUR WEB PAGES. It is my intention to build a site on Soviet computers - to complement my calculator site - and I would be reluctant to ever again share information if the rug is pulled from under me! After all, it takes a lot of time and effort to dig up information. Copying it is easy. I do welcome feedback/questions on this info - I can pass on specific requests to my sources. Before presenting the data, a brief plug - I have two handheld Russian programmable calculators for sale - the MK-85 and MK-85M (both viewable on my site). Please contact me privately, at adavie(a)mad.scientist.com if you're interested in purchase. Cheers A And now, for the interesting (disorganised) stuff... mostly unedited ------------------ 13.05.99 in our collection Sinclair-compatible of computers one more copy has appeared. Externally it looks so: the system block of weight 6,8 kg with the remote keyboard! It was assembled by the radioamateur in 1993. All local boys played on this computer. I expected, that its appearance will be more aesthetic and beautiful, namely: the keyboard and motherboard in one case with the remote disk drive of 5 inches and separately power unit on 12V and 5V. And there was, that almost all in one box and rather heavy because of a power unit and using of metal for the plating of the case. Besides the buttons on the keyboard are not closed by the decorative panel, there are no labels on 2 buttons, and the system block will not sustain a long road because of bad fastening... But, most important, that all this design works! The machine is connected to a socket SCART of the TV set. And most interesting is made in disk operational system. It refers to as DISK SERVICE. It is very simple in work and is intended only for game use, though probably partial use and for the decision of practical tasks. In a basis of system nonfile architecture, and blocks lays. DISK SERVICE divides a flexible disk into 16 blocks. One game or condition RAM can be stored only in each block which existed in the computer at the moment of pressing the button NMI. Naturally, it is possible to save and to load game, and also to read of directories of a disk! At the moment of recording of game on a disk the machine requests a name of the program and writing it on a disk. At reception a directory the computer looks through each block and gives out the list of games. Due to an opportunity of reception of the list of games (the directory of a disk) DISK SERVICE is better, than DISK MO! NITOR. Besides DISK SERVICE faster loads and reads blocks. On all other parameters it considerably concedes DISK MONITOR, because last has opportunities of the built - in toolkit and debuggings of the programs. Thus in our Russian gallery of microcomputers there are following computers: 1). "Leningrad-1" without the disk drive (is ready to travel to Sydney) 2). "Baltic" with the disk drive and operational system DISK MONITOR (I prepare to sending. I do not like its heavy power unit and unreliability at work with the disk drive - I removing now). 3). "Baltic" with the disk drive and operational system DISK SERVICE. To me has got to it about 49 disks with the information in a format DISK SERVICE. Probably, I should it result in more pleasant condition, to reduce of weight and other. Or to leave all in an initial condition. What do you think in this occasion? 4). Byte without the disk drive. Was let out in Belarus. While I have faulty copy, but, now I undertake efforts on its repair or search of working model. 5). "Anqstrem". In a basis - 13 microcircuits. Somewhere at home at my parents the system board lays. When I shall hold it in hands, ladies acknowledgement(confirmation). But to this payment are necessary still keyboard, case and power unit. And only then it will be the working computer. Besides this payment can be and faulty. What you think in this occasion? When I shall hold her(it) in hands, I shall inform acknowledgement. But to this board are necessary still keyboard, case and power unit. And only then it will be the working computer. Besides this board can be and faulty. What do you think in this occasion? 4. One boy offers me the microcomputer under the name "SPECTR-001". I while think. What this such? It is constructed on the basis of the Soviet 8-digital processor KP580BM80 (western analogue, if not changes to me memory, i8080). 32 kilobytes of the RAM, 2 kilobytes of the RAM. It Is assembled on the basis of the circuit of the microcomputer RADIO RK86 and programs compose to it. RADIO RK86 was developed by the Soviet radioamateurs. Its circuit was published in a magazine "RADIO", released on all territory of the USSR and all radioamateurs could quietly collect the computer on the basis of the publications and recommendations in this magazine. Thus, it was one of the first Soviet official computers assembled on domestic element base. Except for it was still MIKROSHA (circuit was published in a magazine "RADIO") and SPECIALIST (the circuit was published in a magazine "MODELIST-CONSTRUCTOR"). Then has appeared ORION with an opportunity of connection of the disk drive and other m! odels. Approximately in this the Soviet people have opened for self the ZX-SPECTRUM and have made the final choice for the benefit of it... And in the beginning there was a magazine "RADIO" with the circuit RADIO RK86 (86, probably, name of year of the publication of the circuit). Then this circuit began to be realized by an industry with small completions under other commercial names. One of them - "SPECTR-001". ------------- I continue translation of the article " BK - supercomputer " (part 2). " The Greatest damage for BK is put by amateur perfomance of half-competent enthusiasts - rationalizers. And already it is complex to result all park of these machines in the coordinated condition so that all available self-made devices have not turned to monuments of the vainly spent means and health. Nevertheless, we shall try.. WISHING to write the programs for BK - more than it is enough. ABLE it to make too burn by desire to apply the knowledge and skills on more wishing "hard". The enthusiasts already have included the tools and the circuits it long of desired "hard" wait.. So, what the processor 1801BM1 can? If to address to the directories and operation manuals, it is possible to find out the rather interesting items of information: "... The processor 16-bit... Address space 32 K ". And it, perhaps, most unintelligible for amateurs. Because in any textbook on circuitry it is possible to find the formula, from which follows, that 16 categories are 64 K of various addresses... The business here that with the help 16 bit of the bus of the address the processor addresses both to 16 bit of the data, and to the senior half of same data. Therefore 16 bit data (words) have only even addresses (or only half from 64 K possible), and the odd addresses allow the processor to address only to 8 - bit data (senior half of word of the data, or to senior byte). The reference to bytes is necessary for the processor to work with the texts, which symbols are coded in the KOI 7 and 8- bit data. Therefore in the processor one more additional line (17-th) address is stipulated, which allows to address and to younger byte of the data. This line refers to as WTBT (pin 40). That is, actually, the processor 1801BM1 has the 17-bit bus of the address, but two bits of this bus (0 bit of the bus of the address and WTBT) carry out actions essentially distinguished from actions of other 15 bits (1... 15 bit of the address), and we have an opportunity of the reference to 32 K of words of the 16-bit data, and on bytes - and to 64 K of 8-bit words (bytes) The basic mode of the processor: the work with the 16-bit data, therefore processor changes on the bus of the address only meanings in bits 1... 15, and the changes on a line WTBT and in the zero bite of the address occur only with detection in the program or special teams of work to bytes (younger), or with the requirement of the program to address to the odd address (that is to senior byte). It - basic features of the processor 1801BM1, which frequently serve for amateurs familiar on a magazine of "Radio" with the 8-bit processor 580 BM80, source of all misunderstanding. There is at the processor 1801BM1 one more interesting feature: it works with the general (common) bus. That is both address, and the data are transferred by the processor to other microcircuits on the same lines... And I are distinguished signals of the address from signals given only by that first in addition are accompanied by a signal of synchronization SYNC (SYNCronization, pin 41), while last - signals DIN (Data IN - data input,) or DOUT (Data OUT - conclusion of the data, pin 37) and, if necessary, signal WTBT. By anything other these signals from each other do not differ! And if we shall find a method, which will allow some data too to count as the address, the bus of the address is increased by 16 bits! (Repeated procedure - more for 16... Etc.). Thus we shall have an opportunity to be addressed to 231 16-bit words and to 232 bytes or to work from the RAM of volume 2 Gigabytes!!! (Here even by a bag RU7 will not do without!!!) Certainly, such of "gigabytion" for a amateurv, and majority of the professionals-homers is absolute by anything. Therefore to expand the bus of the address on 16 bits shall not be. If to be satisfied by expansion of the bus of the address on 8 additional bits, it will give us an opportunity to address 4 Mbytes. When the processor run out the program, it is consecutive (with absence of branchings) gives out numbers of addresses, since 0 (or from any other = to the address of a beginning of the program). If nothing will prevent, it will reach the latest address 177777, and it will leave on 0 and further will return to that address, from which began. That is the processor will bypass complete "CIRCLE" of addresses. For example, the processor 1810BM86 cannot itself (without the special program) to bypass a complete circle 1 Mb of addressed memory - for it it is same 64 Kb, as for the processor 1801. The part of such address circle by analogy to a geometrical circle usually refers to as as a SEGMENT. However, in the processor BM1 such segment addressation is not stipulated (though there are special microcircuits, controllers, the arbitrators etc., but this exotic is accessible a little). Nevertheless, to organize "artificial" (hardware-software) segmentation for 1801BM1 does not represent any difficulties. As it, as it is strange, is stipulated by the electrical circuit BK-0010! (It is interesting, where that disappeared so provident " the developer ", if instead of expansion the issue BK-0011 is begun composed with 0010 only on a network cord!? The bus of the BK-0010 address is hardware is already divided on 8 segments on 8 Kb or on 4K of addresses in each. Two younger segments occupies the RAM of the user (to which more all claims by critics). Two following are occupied by the screen. And in stayed four the microcircuits of ROM are placed, from which two are least spoiled by rationalizers only: the MONITOR and TEST DIAGNOSTICS (block MCTD). Fortunately for the owners BK-0010, it is possible to neutralize "fruits of rationalization" through a socket of a system bus XT3, and here the owners "advanced" BK-0010.01 was not lucky, they should open the machine to cut the pathes going to the out CE (pin 23) microcircuits of the ROM of a BASIC (of the microcircuit D818 and D819) and to establish a connection from released pins to a pin 23 microcircuits D820, which switching-off the rationalizers were compelled to leave, MCTD differently would not work. (The One who instead of sockets under the ROM in BK-0010 already rigidly has established a BASIC, it is necessary to repeat the described procedure. It is enough to them to take out the ROM from the socket). Though, if yours of BK on a guarantee or you it would not be necessary to enter the conflict " with a rationalization idea ", it is possible anything it to not do. The system "BK+" will work! Only operational system will determine absence of program management in the appropriate segment and independently "will cut down" some and your opportunities." To be continued.. My wife does not support my enthusiasmes for microcalculators and microcomputers. She forces me, that I held outside of an apartment and any stuff "did not collect". She asks, what for to me any old small computers, when I have one present. Andrew! Sometime she will finish me up to temperature of boiling, I shall become angry and I shall throw out either calculators or wife!: -). She should understand, that I and mine calculators is one and too! Love me - love also my calculators.. For now I should work confidentially.. ------------- I continue the translation of the article " BK - supercomputer " (part 3). "Now, if you were reserved in ten microcircuits of any triggers, counters, multiplexers and logic, and to them have 16 cases of memory of any type, it is possible to begin! The whole design will be connected to a socket of a system bus, therefore, certainly, the socket CH063-64/95-24-2 is necessary which enters into a complete set of delivery BK (if you already used it for connection of the printer, it is possible completely dismantle the block MCTD, and microcircuit from it to mount " by the second floor " direct on anyone of ROM of the basic scheme, to bend pins 23 and by establishing the additional switch, as on the circuit given in a magazine " Informatics and training " (90/4, page 72). By the way, to pull cable, as there it is recommended, there is no necessity...) It is best to use microcircuits of series 1533, 555, 176 and 561. With presence of microcircuits only 155 series should be found two bus shapers of a type 1533AP6 (555AP6) or series 580 to not overload the bus A/D. (All system managing signals it is necessary "buffered", for example, by microcircuits 1533LN1, 555LN1 or any logic). Pins of a socket XT3 for A/D00... A/D15 accordingly: A31, B31, B29, B30, B28, A28, B27, B32, B26, A27, B25, A26, B24, A25, B23, B7. On these lines it is necessary to establish Latch of the address. For it it is possible to use two cases IR22, IR23, IR27 (it is possible two cases TM9 and one of TM8 and so on). The address latches a system signal SYNC (pin B22 XT3). It switches off the third condition on an output of the registers of latch of the address. ( If in latch TM8-9 is used, they are reset by a system signal RESET with inclusion BK). The latch of the address is necessary to fix segment, to which the processor addresses to generate all necessary signals and their sequences for interaction of the processor with expansion and for organization of "internal" work of the Expansion. As in BK is hardware there are 8 segments, which to us need to be operated programmly, for it it is necessary to use three hi of the digits of the address: A13, A14 and A15 (other digits operate expansion within the limits of a segment). Segments with RAM of the user and screen is better for not touching. A segment with ROM of the monitor too... It is necessary to remember, that without the monitor BK turns in "well-to-do'hard only"!.. But this segment is used in half of opportunities - only for reading. It is irrational. The ROM 1801PE2 microcircuits are arranged in such a manner that when there is a reference of the processor in their segment and thus the signal of reading (DIN) is active, the microcircuit gives out the data on the bus, and then and signal for the processor RPLY (RePLY - response). With absence of a signal DIN the microcircuit does not react to the address of the segment, and with absence of a signal RPLY the reaction of the processor is rigidly determined: it counts 64 steps of the synchro-generator and works further under the special program of a MISTAKE of the REFERENCE or LAG. That is the segment ROM of the MONITOR is completely free for record: ROM in any way and nothing prevents and cannot be as - or "is spoiled" by signals on the common bus. Therefore we shall establish in this segment one more latch - latch of the data, which will serve (programmly) a command word of "artificial" segmentation or WORD of MANAGEMENT of other segments for their use, similarly to a segment of the monitor, - both for reading, and for record. This latch is similar to latch of the address and differs only by that the signal for latching is formed of a signal of decoding of the reference on record in a segment of the monitor, that is with presence of levels 100 on the hi bits of latch of the address and active level of a signal DOUT (pin B21 of a socket XT3). Then (not later, than for 60 steps of the synchro-generator) the circuit of management should give out a signal RPLY on pin B20 of a socket XT3, differently processor lags." To be continued... ------------- I continue the translation of the article " BK - supercomputer " (part 4). " For what the 16-digit latch of a word is necessary, if we already have agreed to use expansion of the address only on 8 categories? Business that it is meaningful to use the following behind the monitor two segments each separately. And data you see all the same 16-digit. Therefore younger byte of the data we shall use for management of the segment, nearest to the monitor, and senior byte - for management of the following segment. (The latest segment 111 is better by anything, except the ROM MSTD or BASIC to not occupy, as in these microcircuits the automatic blocking is stipulated in the field of addresses of the system registers 177600... 177777 - Any amateur perfomance here, as is spoken, is fraught...). The segments 101 and 110 form two SEGMENTS of ACCESS to the expansion controlled by the processor with the help of the address, which has stayed 13 lines, and system signals. Each of bytes of a word of management allows to include in each of segments of access any of 256 (2 in a degree 8-256) 8 Kb of segments of expansion. (As against the processor 1810BM86, here segments of access are not blocked in any way, therefore transfer of the data from one part of the program in other should be carried out differently). If each of segments of access will use own bank, we shall receive expansion of volume in 4Mb (8K x 256 segments x 2 banks - 4Mb), but if to be satisfied by one bank for both segments of access, we, losing half of volume, receive an opportunity any 8 Kb by blocks of this bank, that is much more attractive, as and 2 Mbytes to fill by any useful data with "poor" periphery are not obviously possible, and hardly it is required to somebody for the "home" purposes. Now we shall look, what we can insert into this of 2Mb bank?.. Even having 16 pieces 565RU7, we use only quarter of volume of this bank. But it is a rather interesting quarter! It makes equally 2 digits words of management. That is, if bank to choose by these quarters, we shall have in bank four SEGMENTS of CHOOSING on 512Kb each. And in each of them we can arbitrary choose blocks on 8Kb or WINDOW. The choice of windows will be carried out with the help of the 6 bits of each byte of a word of management for each of segments of access in any segment of choosing. Where it is necessary to insert these two bits of management of segments of choosing? They should be placed in most younger and in the grown-up bits of each byte of a word of management. Such accommodation will be well coordinated with logic of work of the counter of commands, i.e. with its use for scanning of data in the next windows will not occur switching of segments of choosing. And use for the same purposes of other register will allow to carry out scanning with switching of segments of choosing or without it, depending on desire of the programmer. It is necessary to distribute duties between these segments. " ( To be continued...) I offer to your attention the survey article on some computers of family Sinclair collected in USSR. Review included the basic, most popular models. However, some models, for example, is industrial made, in the review are absent. The facts touching my favourite computer Baltic partially are deformed. On Baltic it is possible to start 3 (!) Operational systems - standard Basic, built - in original Disk Monitor and from disk to load CPM! Besides it is rather easy to connect to it any periphery, though it and does not have the allocated system trunk. Thus, it is interesting, though also rather disputable article. Here it is necessary to remember, that the article is written by the inhabitant of Moscow region. Since 1987, at shop "Pioneer", then on Sokol, in Pokrovsko-Streshnya and still god knows, where in Moscow, and now at station of the underground "Tushinskaya" has appeared about ten basic models Spectrum-compatible PC (personal computers). These models and their various versions make now by basic park household PC in former USSR, due to their simplicity, cheapness and huge quantity of the excellent programs. To a radioamateur, and at times and professional, it is difficult to understand advantages of one models before others, as practically there is no information on subtleties both complexities in setup and operation, and also compatibility with the software. The problem also is, that nowadays, the selling of some models PC has appeared in a circle of interests of their developers. As a rule, the information on such of PC - is advertising, and the shadows parties are not shined. The first mass model has become PC "Moscow". This of PC till now remains by the most high-grade recurrence of model "ZX Spectrum" from the point of view of machine cycles and organization of memory (however it complex in manufacturing and setup, and also requires large number of completions, which are necessary for bringing in). It is necessary also to note, that in the television frame at "Moscow" 312 lines, that corresponds to the standard, instead of 320, as at the majority of other models. Only in this model braking the processor is stipulated with a video-out and reference in addresses with 4000H up to 8000H (16384 - 32767 decimal). However complexities in set-up do PC "Moscow" not enough attractive for beginning radioamateurs. The following step PC was "Baltic" (name has taken place because, that printed-circuit-board and circuit have developed in Vilnius). The basic advantage of this model is the simplicity and high safety in operation. On a printed-circuit-board there are few of corrections, and the computer is simple in adjustment. But the presence of microcircuits K556RT4 and K155RE3 necessary for organization of machine cycles and work of the videoprocessor, which are necessary previously for programming, imposes some restrictions on availability. The rigid organization of machine cycles and essential differences in organization of work of memory, and also increased thereof up to 4 MHz clock frequency of the processor, makes this model less compatible programmly. For these reasons nowadays "Baltic" is distributed a little. By essential step was the occurrence of model " Moscow 128 " (developed, most likely not in Moscow). It is the first model, where is used "transparent" RAM, i.e. the mode, in which processor with the reference to memory is not braked. As the prototype of this model PC " Sinclair 128 " has served. But use of memory in critical modes, and also the absence musical co-processor has made this model by rather poor recurrence. The interface of the printer LX-print and original programmed joystick were stipulated in "Moscow 128" for the first time , connection two of Kempston-joysticks and high-grade TV-RGB an output also is stipulated. Unfortunately, this model has not received distribution because of small quantity of the programs designed only under "Sinclair 128", and complexities in setup shown, as "Failure in RAM". Most mass model Spectrum-compatible PC without the controller of the disk drive has become " Leningrad I ". Its basic advantages: simplicity, cheapness, small quantity of corrections on a printed-circuit-board, repeatability. Because of absence of the worthy competitors this model has got large popularity. Unfortunately, it was necessary to pay for simplicity by bad compatibility. A wrong choice of addresses of ports, and as a consequence - By-effects and complexity of connection of external devices. On a printed-circuit-board the system socket is not stipulated, and to connect any periphery very difficultly. Though the braking of the processor in a cycle Ml (with choosing of a code of the instruction of the RAM) also facilitates mode of operations of memory, but strongly harms to compatibility with the software. Nowadays this model gradually descends from the market, though also its followers are not deprived of many mistakes, admitted in it. the computer "Pentagon" or " Pentagon 48 ", nicknamed so for five-coal distributing of the earthen trunk on a contour of the printed-circuit-board. It was first model Spectrum-compatible PC, in which on one printed-circuit-board the computer and controller of the disk drive is located. "Pentagon" has borrowed from " of Moscow 128 ", in particular transparent RAM, addressing of ports, and lacks peculiar to "Moscow 128 " much. The dynamic memory in this model works on limiting frequencies, and the printed-circuit-board is divorced by the not best image, because of what it is necessary to strengthen bus of a power. n a printed-circuit-board there is no circuit of formation TV-RGB of a signal, and it should be done >from above. As the positive side of this model, is possible is to note the device of input from the tape recorder (on K561LN2), and as negative - absence of a system socket. "Pentagon 48 " is popular also now, though the machine with 128 kilobytes RAM is gradually superseded similar. Hardly later "Pentagon" in the market there was PC "Krasnogorsk". Is original model, in which for formation of television signals ROM K573RF2 (5) with the table programmed in it is used. In "Krasnogorsk" is used, though also transparent, but the mode, facilitated at the expense of a rigid machine cycle, of the RAM, on a printed-circuit-board is divorced the shaper TV-RGB of signals. This version PC has become attempt to correct lacks "Baltic" and " of Leningrad I ", but because of difficulty of purchase ROM with the table, complexity of expansion, because of absence of a system socket and wrong addressing of ports this model has not become same mass, as " Leningrad I ". Nowadays "Krasnogorsk" is distributed in the market very little. After occurrence in the beginning of 1990 "Krasnogorsk", by virtue of a number of the reasons, in the market household PC more than year did not occur of new models Spectrum-compatible of computers. The occurrence PC " Orion 128 " on the basis of the processor KR580IK80, with anything not compatible programmly, has not rendered essential influence on development household PC. However spring and summer 1991 in the market has appeared at once some new models. " Leningrad 2 " represents of improvements variant " of Leningrad I ", in comparison with it in new model is corrected addressingt Kempston-joysticks, though have remained mistakes of addressing "border" of a port FE (254). The videoprocessor forms 312 lines in the frame, the external bus is outside . " Leningrad 2 " is much better than the predecessor, but, on all visibility, same popular it has not become. One of the reasons it is the complexity of expansion, as well as at all previous PC, absence of controllers developed under specific model. The computer "ZX-PROFI" the first of developed at us of PC, in which besides a mode 48 and 128, is stipulated also use of operational system ???. The computer consists of two printed-circuit-board and is combined in enough to setup, but has the most complete set of periphery in one block. The authors and distributors will carry out correct market politics directed on a wide circulation to this model. But their mistake is that complex and expensive half-professional PC is not necessary to basic mass of the potential consumers. Advantage of this model is the mode "TURBO", and lack - Incomplete compatibility both with ZX Spectrum, and with ??? PC ROBOTRON 1715. In comparison with "ZX-PROFI" " Pentagon 128 " has appeared more simple and mass PC, though, as a matter of fact, it only crossing " of Moscow 128 " and "Pentagon48" without essential improvement. The machine is difficult in set-up, is critical to RAM, on a printed-circuit-board there is no place under musical co-processor AY-8912, but nowadays this computer, unfortunately, unique. "ATM-turbo" - Is pure commercial PC. The politics of its authors or manufacturers focused on protection of "copyrights", most likely, is directed on reception of the maximal profit to short terms. This, undoubtedly, original PC is most expensive also complex nowadays. In it some grafics modes (only in ???) are stipulated, but, unfortunately, these additions - presence analogue - digital converter, digital-to-analog converter and elements for the modem and automatic determinant of a telephone number on one printed-circuit-board, - Nowadays are not maintained in any way programmly. In the computer there is no sufficient flexibility and even of a system socket. Similar, the problems of compatibility with ZX Spectrum of the developers interested a little, and "???" it is possible to consider as ??? - compatible PC. On the present time last model is "Angstrem", in it a microcircuit 1515XM1 for the first time is applied. It is a set of counters, multiplexers and fine logic. Simplicity in manufacturing and cheapness, undoubtedly, will make in a near future this model popular. But essential step in it was only technological simplification with use 1515XM instead of a set of separate microcircuits. Among advantages it of PC - simplicity in setup, and among lacks small flexibility, in particular, impossibility of expansion of the RAM and deficiency 1515XM1. And what is farther? The information on quick occurrence new PC with two processors Z80 recently is received. From words of the authors, in it all problems of compatibility, and opportunity of expansion are solved, as almost. The printed-circuit-board in this model is similar on structure on Matherboard IBM PC, i.e. with several system sockets. It would be necessary to trust, that too not advertising. And it is desirable to the developers new PC to provide: availability, small set of elements, reliability, openness of architecture (ease of expansion), and from the point of view of compatibility - Correct addressing of ports, presence on a printed-circuit-board so-called " f a port FF ", correct situation and duration of a signal INT (inquiry of interruption). Well, and the one who does not want to wait (and whether will wait) occurrence "ideal" PC, it is possible to choose model on taste and pocket. Is desirable to you of good luck! " --------------- In 1982, the Englishman Clive Sinclaier has invented the 8-digit computer ZX-Spectrum, which was connected to the TV set and had the programming language Basic. Soon for it he has awarded a honourable rank sir, and in USSR this computer has become mass national computer and radioamateurs, which already have ceased to arrange programmed calculators: -), have begun to copy the electrical circuit ZX on soviet element base. The first popular circuit in 1986-1994 (time their greatest occurrences) was Leningrad. It was the simple circuit with the least quantity details and for the first time was thought up in Leningrad. Whence and name. In Minsk have begun to let out by an industrial image a Vector and Byte, ZX-Spectrum compatible too. There were more competently thought over models ZX - later Scorpion (it seems, Moscow) and Baltic (is developed in Tallin and distribution has received in Minsk). These circuits differed safety in operation, opportunity of connection of peripheral devices, including the disk drive. I personally itself have collected a little Baltik of computers and has set up them. At me till now is working Baltic with the disk drive. I know three operational systems for Baltic, including TR-DOS. There were also other clones ZX-Spectrum. As to 16-digit home computers, the soviet designers have let out BK-0010 with the programming language Focal and on the film keyboard. There were perfect updatings with Basic and contact keyboard later. Then I have learned, that BK-0010 and its clones were are copied from western model. For this reason it of all opportunities has not opened. :-( . Itself programmed on it and even modernized the circuit. But the epoch of ZX-Spectrum and BK-0010 irrevocably has passed. By it on change came IBM-PC-compartible. ------------------

26 years, 9 months

1
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PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME!

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

To quote from the auction listing: ----------- In doing some research we contacted a PDP/11 veteran with a great micro collection on his website-- The Gentry Collection of Mature Computers This one is being sold untested and strictly as-is. It appears well preserved in it's mamoth housing and rack. If it hasn't been modified it should be similar to the one in that collection and have the following specs: ---------- Looks like Megan's the victim of an eBay gender-bending :-) BTW, what exactly is a "mamoth" housing, anyway?? -- Tony ---------- From: Laura Greenfield[SMTP:scctv@cruzio.com] Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 7:01 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! Greetings! Anyone out there looking for a PDP-11/23+ ? We just posted one on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104284274 Hope this is the correct venue for this. Laura time-warp on eBay

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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Univac pix

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 19:20 12/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >I've got the first few pix of my Univac online now. >Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/ > > Cheers, > Bill. Hi Bill, I've visited yr. URL and auot the page http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/giorn1.jpg you wrote: >This came from a web page in Italy. I think the accompanying article says something >about the first computer used in some school in Italy. >Unfortunately, I don't read much Italian, and Babelfish didn't >do so well either. But Bill, I'm here :-) ...just ask! It's true, the article is used in this website (the school's website) as proof of being (since 1970) the first Italian school (not university) equipped with a computer. MESTRE is "VENICE on earth" = is the small city that connects Venice-on-water with the continent. There they have schools, offices, houses, etc. that in Venice are not possible or effordable. "Zuccante" is the name for this school that is a technical engineer school with a training course for programmers. Briefly the article explained the new chance offered by this school to the student-workers with evening (after work) courses that allowed to get the degree in "computer science engineering". The aim of the article's author was to convince the readers about the advanced equipment in school's laboratory and the importance of the outcoming new profession:computers programmer Curiosity: The author wrote that the new development was the "new disk and tape system that is capable to expand the memory of the central unit, allowing the warehousing of thousands of useful processing data" ^^^^^^^^ In the reality Mr. Luciano Tagliapietra (the man in the picture that was the UNIVAC technician), tells that despite what was written in the article, those expansion units where never bought by this institute, because in 1973 that kind of computer with only 16 Kb memory and the need of air conditioner, was considered at the sunset. >Since there is more machinery in this picture than I've got, I wonder if I have a >whole machine. Hmm, I can't tell what Mr. Tagliapietra is handling in the picture, but the rectangular opening in the top of the first machine with the slope, seems to be a card reader. Probably the other was a big puncher? Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli <chemif(a)mbox.queen.it> I-47100 Forl?

26 years, 9 months

1
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PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME!

by scctv＠cruzio.com

Greetings! Anyone out there looking for a PDP-11/23+ ? We just posted one on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104284274 Hope this is the correct venue for this. Laura time-warp on eBay

26 years, 9 months

2
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PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME!

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Looks like Megan's the victim of an eBay gender-bending :-) Seems so... >BTW, what exactly is a "mamoth" housing, anyway?? I think it is due to the fact that the people posting are used to PCs and more contemporary machines, and so a pdp-11 in an H960 is MAMOTH to them... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

1
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Smashing find! Well, sort of..

by a2k＠one.net

This isn't exactly a Univac rescue, but I still think it's kinda cool: For $25 today at a garage sale, I got an Atari 800 with some extra RAM (don't know for sure yet), 1050 disk drive (no disks :( ), Atari 850 Interface (this thing has 4 female serial ports on the back, one parallel port on the side, 2 i/o ports, power switch, light, and power connecter on the front (not exactly a nice place to have all your cables running off... oh well). From what I get from the small amount of documentation, the 850 is just a serial interface.. but there's no modem. I'd REALLY love to use it for that, or at least as a terminal on one of my UN*X boxen... any information would be greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, there were several carts and joysticks.. I made the mistake of letting my dad play with Packman.. we had an 2600 in the 80s... deja vous all over again... didn't see him again for an hour. Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k(a)one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon(a)nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| --------------------------------------------------------------------

26 years, 9 months

1
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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

The other two options could have been a number of things, such as a HD/floppy controller, a clock/battery, and I remember even seeing one that plugged into an expansion slot and the 8088/8087 sockets. It had a parallel, serial, VGA video (on a separate backplate - so the thing actually took up two slots), high-density floppy, IDE HD, clock/battery, and 4 30-pin SIMM sockets. I wish I could find one of those cards - or find out who made them. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Daniel T. Burrows <danburrows(a)mindspring.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Re: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? > >>IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8) expansion slots meant >>that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of >>them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and >>joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two >>functions? >

26 years, 9 months

3
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Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 14, 2:41, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) > > The bits that people tend to regard as "undocumented" are mostly the bits > > avbout how the interface to a second procvessor (The Tube (TM)) work. But > > The Tube hardware wasn't that well documented either. It was based round > a ULA which wasn't covered in the Advanced User Guide... Well, the ULA wasn't in the Beeb but in the add-on, so that's not so surprising. Most of the other addons aren't well documented (or even mentioned) in the AUG. Don't forget that, although the authors had a lot of moral support from Acorn, they had no official backing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

2
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Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 14, 2:36, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete wrote: > > The Beeb video architecture is very similar to the Atom (but more modes, > > more colours, more resolution), the disk system is almost identical, the > > Not really. The Atom is based on a 6847 (and uses the address generator, > display data path, character generator, etc of that chip). There is some > memory associated with the display system only. > > The Beeb uses a 6845 to generate display addresses in main memory. The > video path is mostly in a custom chip ('Video ULA'), with the character > generator (only used in the Teletext mode, Mode 7) in an SAA5050 chip. > > I would not call those 'similar'... Don't confuse the implementation with the architecture. Sure, the Beeb uses an SAA5050 for one (of eight) modes - but the others work in a way very similar to the Atom. Actually, very little of the video path is in the ULA on a Beeb. It contains the DACs and the palette only. > > The Arc (not Arch, please :-)) was certainly built from the same philosophy > > The 'h' is silent, but most references to that machine call it the Arch... Not those I've seen. All the Acorn people I know (and I know lots, don't forget I worked in that world for ten years) use "Arc". > The fact that the processor runs at twice the speed (2MHz) in the Beeb > helps as well :-) Agreed. But it's about 4 times the speed of an Apple ][, which runs at 1MHz. > > properly buffered and streamed. What's wrong with the 1MHz bus for > > expansion? There were lots of devices that used that, including a > > Nothing at all. It's just that the Apple was easier to make cards for > than the Beeb (where you have to provide an external PSU and case (you > shouldn't attempt to power external devices from the BBC PSU). The switch mode PSU (not the linear "adapter and exploder" used on the first batch) has quite a lot of spare capacity (about 2A at 5V), and an external output connector. It was *designed* to power external devices (mainly disk drives, but it is perfectly capable of powering other things too). And there are power connectons on some of the device I/O connectors including the Tube and User Port. > I was under the impression that the Acorn host adapter didn't support > multiple masters, and was thus better classed as a SASI host... Many early SCSI systems didn't. It does, however, support CCS. > > think Torch's was SASI -- and it never worked very well, I seem to recall. > > Torch did 2 versions. The common one was SASI, and wasn't that good. > There's also a much rarer SCSI unit (the ROM for it is called SCSIfs). It > works pretty well. I didn't know about the later one, I admit. > > MOS. They were issued at Acorn training courses, which were run for > > dealers and developers. There were a range of courses, and I went to one > > of the MOS courses run by Paul Bond (who was the major designer of the > > MOS). It was a fascinating course. > > OK, it wasa never available to %random-user.... Or to be more specific, I > couldn't get it :-) They did cost money (though not an awful lot), so yes, they wouldn't attract the average enthusiast, but a lot of them were attended by teachers and school technicians. > Well, the original 'proton' never existed as a production machine AFAIK. Yes, only as development prototypes, as far as I know. I never saw one, only pictures (and I'm not sure they weren't mockups). > But the name was certainly used - and used in Acorn documentation - as a > code name for the BBC micro. For example the diagram 103,008 is called > 'Circuit Diagram for the Proton Final Test Jig', and is the final test > jig for the BBC micro (or at least a machine with identical 1MHz bus, > printer port, user port, analogue port and cassette port). Yes, but Acorn staff had a habit of reusing names on diagrams that were redrawn. It doesn't mean that that board was actually a Proton board by then, although it must at least have started life as one. > In fact the > 103 identifies it as being a BBC-micro related product (The BBC micro > schematic is 103,000). 102 series schematics are for the Atom, 100 series > for the Systems (101 is for what?) I dunno -- 104 is teletext adapter, 108 6502 2nd processor, 109 is the Z80, 115 is Prestel, I think. 107 is the 1MHz bus backplane. 101 might be one of the Econet products, I suppose, or the original proton number series, or an OEM device. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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Toshiba T1200 battery pack

by fpp＠concentric.net

>The battery pack has a switch on it. What is this for? Currently it is >switched to show red. Usually was used to indicate if it was charged. You moved switch to red after you replaced the pack with a charged one; to indicate it needs a recharge. Like camcorder batteries that have the same feature.

26 years, 9 months

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Great day! (OSI)

by bill＠chipware.com

Just arrived in the mail: C4P (in beautiful physical condition, unknown operational condition) In the original box! (not expected) with (also not expected): The full C4P/C4PMF SAMs! If you have C4P/C4PMF questions that might be answered by the SAMs, let me know. I'll try to help. Bill Sudbrink

26 years, 9 months

1
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Toshiba T1200 battery pack

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

I also picked up a Toshiba T1200 laptop yesterday. The battery has no charge, and I couldn't find the power supply, so I don't know if it works yet. The battery pack has a switch on it. What is this for? Currently it is switched to show red. What is the polarity of the 12V DC connector on the back of the machine? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The > > one I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot... I got a couple of good ones, thanks. One is the one I was thinking of, the other is a user's shot of his own machines with the lights going. > > My -8/e is behind a wall > > of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). > > ?!?!?!? A COUPLE?!? You dog! I'd trade some SERIOUS goodies for ONE! As I've written before, one of these is the exact one from the photo on the back cover of the large-format "CPU Wars" comic. Both of them were originally phototypesetters from the Columbus Dispatch. There's three racks of S and R cards below the CPU in each rack that I'm told is probably the I/O circuitry for the typesetting hardware. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

1
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PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

> > In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The one > I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot. I was > thinking of snagging it and sticking it on a one-off T-shirt to wear around > the Dayton Hamvention as a "Wanted" poster with the classiccmp address at > the bottom. Does anyone remember this recent posting? Alternately, does > anyone have a good front panel pic that I can use? My -8/e is behind a wall > of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). > > I suppose I could capture the output from Doug Jones' xpdp emulator, I think > a real photo would look nicer. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > I switched to using a smaller scan on my web page. The image you're referring to is still available at: http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/pdp8e_100.jpg A smaller image is available, just change that 100 to a 60. If you want a more detailed scan, or a tiff image, let me know. This scan is from a letter sized landscape advertizement, and that PDP8/e pretty much fills the whiole page. So, these are actually very low resolution scans (100 and 60 dpi). -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

26 years, 9 months

1
0
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PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

On Fri, 14 May 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The one > I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot. I was > thinking of snagging it and sticking it on a one-off T-shirt to wear around > the Dayton Hamvention as a "Wanted" poster with the classiccmp address at > the bottom. Does anyone remember this recent posting? Alternately, does > anyone have a good front panel pic that I can use? That sounds cool. If the URL does not pop up, drop me a note and I'll set my digital camera loose on the task... > My -8/e is behind a wall > of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). ?!?!?!? A COUPLE?!? You dog! I'd trade some SERIOUS goodies for ONE! -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!

26 years, 9 months

1
0
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PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The one I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot. I was thinking of snagging it and sticking it on a one-off T-shirt to wear around the Dayton Hamvention as a "Wanted" poster with the classiccmp address at the bottom. Does anyone remember this recent posting? Alternately, does anyone have a good front panel pic that I can use? My -8/e is behind a wall of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). I suppose I could capture the output from Doug Jones' xpdp emulator, I think a real photo would look nicer. Thanks, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

GRiDCASE 1500 Series

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

OK, now on to my _other_, less successful GRiD find yesterday... I picked up a GRiDCASE "1500 Series" computer. It looks very similar to the Compass that I'm typing on, but with a larger screen, 3.5" floppy drive on the right hand side, standard PC ports, and mushy keyboard. Anyway, when I turn it on, the *fantastically beautiful* 10.5" (diagonal) display reads: Phoenix 80286 ROM BIOS Version 3.06 <blah blah blah copyright> GRiD Systems Corporation 3/17/88 640K Base Memory, 00384K EMS Memory Time-of-day clock stopped - please set current time A green LED comes on, next to the label reading "Lower/External disk in use". It sits there for a while, then beeps with the message: Hard Disk Diagnosic Failure Strike the F1 key to coninue OK, so this looks like a clock battery gone dead, making the machine forget the setup. I tried booting up with a 720K MS-DOS floppy, but that didn't work. There was a slight noise, and the "Upper disk in use" light came on momentarily, but it didn't boot. It went back to the other light and evntually complained about the hard drive again. Unless this thing uses some kind of Stealth Hard Drive, there doesn't seem to be a hard drive in there at all. No HD noises. Also, there is a lift-up trapdoor above the keyboard. Opening it reveals two empty 32-pin sockets. So, how the heck to I crack the case on this thing? The only screws I could find with a cursory inspection were the four screws under the carrying handle. How do I get to the suspected dead battery? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

26 years, 9 months

1
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static bags

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated >from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from the list? Jay West

26 years, 9 months

4
8
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New-fangled languages (was: BASIC

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote: > So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without > line numbers! Not only BASIC without line numbers, but *classic* era BASIC - AmigaDOS 1.1 shipped in 1986 with AmigaBasic (not the older ABasic of which I know little) and it does not require line numbers. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

8
9
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Low level formatting DSSI disks with KQSFA?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Anyone know the procedure? Can it be done? Do I need some special diagnostic program (do vaxes run XXDP?) --Chuck

26 years, 9 months

1
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Mystery board and drives

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

On Mon, 10 May 1999 01:09:26 GMT, pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com said: >On May 9, 16:40, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: >>They are indeed 2 * 50 pin headers, with a 4 position switch between them... >>Another reply suggests it would be Unibus... >When I have time, I'll dig out my TC02 manual -- I guess the switches will >be similar. I'm still of the opnion this TU03 is Q-bus. Does it have an >empty DIL socket near one of the edge connectors? Does it have a couple of >other switch packs? (I'm wondering how much like my TC02 it is.) How about you both compare your boards to mine? Maybe they look the same. http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/vfg/tc02.jpg Many new pictures available at the Visual Field Guide, also of non-DEC boards! http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/vfg/number.html Any machine readable copy of the TC02 (or any other Emulex Qbus board) manual available? I only have information on the QD21 and UC07/08 on my site. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ I'm Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://www.vaxarchive.org/ (primary) http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) http://www.coyote.org/mirrors/vaxarchive/ (mirror) NetTamer 1.08.1 Registere

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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Z-100 find ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Years ago, I bought two half height drives and <put them in the slot for the full sized. I used <just the single controller to drive both and it <worked with HDOS as two drives. I'd have to look <to see if I did it with twisted lines or jumpers <on the drives. I did have to file the opening a little <to take two drives. <Dwight Twisted wire is a PCism, the bulk of the works addressed either 3 or 4 drives via the select lines. That required setting up the jumpers for DS0-3. I have the prints here for one somewhere. Allison

26 years, 9 months

1
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Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 12, 23:56, Derek Peschel wrote: > - Was the source to the MOS ever released or reverse-engineered? > It's very well documented but there are some undocumented features. > (One example came up in the discussion of the Torch Z-80 card. > It involved interrupts at power-on time, I think.) The bits that people tend to regard as "undocumented" are mostly the bits avbout how the interface to a second procvessor (The Tube (TM)) work. But there are documents that Acorn used to supply on request that describe the Tube, and the Sideways ROM protocols, etc. I have them. > How about > the source or disassembly for BASIC? There wasn't a good listing of BASIC. There were two books published by third parties, but one wasn't very good, and the other was written by someone whom Acorn knew well, and they persuaded him to drop it before many were sold. Why? Mainly because it was very specific about addresses of routines that were going to change in the next version. It would have been quite misleading in places. "The Advanced BASIC ROM User Guide" by Colin Pharo, pub. Cambridge Microcomputer Centre. "The BASIC ROM User Guide" by Mark Plumbley, pub. Adder. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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New-fangled languages (was: BASIC

by bill＠chipware.com

> > I remember when I upgraded the ROMs in my C1P > > and got a RENUM command. Ah, those were the > > days. > > There were two common tricks that renumber commands never dealt with: > > 1) storing line numbers in variables and GOTOing or GOSUBing them, > e.g., GOSUB MYSUB > > 2) computing line numbers at the time of GOTO or GOSUB, > e.g., GOTO (X+3)*35 > > Did the C1P let you do either of those tricks? I'll have to stretch my brain, as all of my stuff is behind a stack of drywall just now. Hmmm... I don't seem to remember doing either of those tricks. The Microsoft 8K BASIC in ROM was pretty simple... I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong. Bill Sudbrink

26 years, 9 months

1
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Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 13, 22:34, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) > You can trace links between the Atom and the Systems (Same bus, for > example). And between the Atom and the BBC micro (Some of the > non-standard parts of Atom BASIC turn up on the Beeb). The electron is > obviously related to the Beeb. But I would claim that the Arch was also a > BBC descendant. And thus the Electron is an offshoot of the main line of > machines. The Beeb video architecture is very similar to the Atom (but more modes, more colours, more resolution), the disk system is almost identical, the sideways ROM system is similar, Econet is the same, user port/VIAs are the similar, etc. But they're all rolled together on the Beeb, and there's lots more. There were a few other "specials" like the Communicators built for Reuters, looked like a Compact but had a different processor (the one that's based on a 6502 but is 16-bit), and a built-in modem. The Arc (not Arch, please :-)) was certainly built from the same philosophy as the Beeb, and had some similarities in things such as screen modes, I/O handling, OS entry points, etc. And like the Beeb, was well-documented. > > micro and the ][ grew into the ][+ though I think the BBC micro surpasses > > the ][+ in terms of capability. The Master and //e both had to deal with > > The Apple wins on hardware expandability (there are no expansion slots on > any model of Beeb). The Beeb (IMHO) wins on a more powerful BASIC, better > video system, more standard I/O ('User port, ADC, etc were all standard > on the BBC micro, and properly documented in the user manual). Both are > interesting machines. The Beeb is also several times faster, largely due to the fact that I/O is interrupt driven, and there's no polling overhead; also most I/O is properly buffered and streamed. What's wrong with the 1MHz bus for expansion? There were lots of devices that used that, including a backplane system, and lots more that fitted (sometimes in ingenious, and not always wonderful, ways) inside the case. > No definitive list, alas. I can tell you the ones I remember : > > BBC A, BBC B, BBC B+, BBC Master. Master Compact. US models of some of those > (certainly there's a US version of the B). > > Some of those had 'professional' versions, or were available as PCB only > for use in embedded systems. The Master PCB was available separately as an OEM item. There was a series of Acorn Business Machines, which were based on the B+ board, in a big case which included colour monitor, B+ board, two 5.25" drive bays, second processor, and had a separate keyboard and (for some models) a mouse. There was one with a Z80, CP/M, floppies; one with 80286, floppies, MS-DOS (or maybe it was DR-DOS), and one with a 32016, 4MB RAM, hard drive, and one floppy. That was the only one that actually survived past the launch; it became the Acorn Cambridge Workstation. There was a also a pair of Springboard cards for PCs -- ISA cards with an Arm on them. They differed only in the amount of memory, one was 1MB but I can't remember if the other was bigger or smaller (4MB comes to mind, but I might be wrong about that). They were basically a second processor for a PC -- they used the PC's I/O -- meant for development work, and provided with an editor, assembler, and a couple of compilers. They were sold by the OEM division and not very many were made. > Second processors for the BBC (not the internal ones for the master) : > 65C02, Z80, 32016, ARM 1, 80286 (never released?) > > 80816 card for the Master (other master copros?) 4MHz 65C102 (Master Turbo), 4MHz Z80 (external only), 32016 (external only, I think; Master Scientific), 80186. The Z80 wasn't a new design, it was the same old Z80 as before. The others were new designs, and the Turbo and 80186 were available either as an internal PCB, or fitted in a box like the original second processors. There was also a short-lived Master ET. It was a Master 128 case and PCB minus disk interface, minus some of the firmware, fewer standard I/O ports, and limited expansion, but with the (otherwise optional) Econet networking hardware fitted. A sort of diskless workstation. > Peripherals in 'second processor cases' : Prestel modem, teletext > adapter, GPIB interface, Econet bridge. > > Winchester (SASI) hard disk system. [Torch (IIRC) made a SCSI system as > well.] Acorn's used an Adaptec ACB400 which is definitely SCSI-1, not SASI. I think Torch's was SASI -- and it never worked very well, I seem to recall. Its protocol was sufficiently different to the Acorn standards that lots of stuff wouldn't work with it. > > - Was the source to the MOS ever released or reverse-engineered? > > Never released, and I've never seen a reverse-engineered version :-( Yes they were. I have two separate copies of the source/commentary for the MOS. They were issued at Acorn training courses, which were run for dealers and developers. There were a range of courses, and I went to one of the MOS courses run by Paul Bond (who was the major designer of the MOS). It was a fascinating course. > > It's very well documented but there are some undocumented features. > > (One example came up in the discussion of the Torch Z-80 card. > > It involved interrupts at power-on time, I think.) How about > > the source or disassembly for BASIC? Software interrupts. The Torch Z-80 does it badly wrongly, which is why it screws up several other add-ons. At power up, various service calls are offered to all the ROMs in turn, and the Torch Z80 uses one of them for an unintended purpose. it also claims one it shouldn't, instead of passing control back correctly. > > - The Proton _is_ the same as the BBC micro, right? Some Web sites > > seem to disagree on this! > > Yes. No! The Proton was a design for the successor to the Atom, and that was the design initially shown to the BBC when they started to canvas for material for what became the Microcomputer Project and the "Making The Most of The Micro" TV series. The BBC asked for, and got, several major changes, and the BBC Micro was quite a bit bigger and more complex than the Proton would have been. The proton was more like the Atom than the Beeb. > > As for finding a machine, I thought there was a place in London selling them > > new but I haven't checked yet. There was a batch of machines that turned up from the U.S. at one point, so beware that they are a different spec (video timing, mostly, but also a different ROM) and I think there was a batch came back from Germany. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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Z-100 find ?

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I picked up a Zenith Data Systems all-in-one box from the trash a few days ago. Lovely cosmetic condition. Unfortunately there's no response on the monitor. The fan spins up so it is getting power. Other than the Heath address on the back it has no model #. It looks like the pictures I have seen of the Z-100. Do the first models of Z-100 have a model # on them ? It has a siemens fdd and a really nice FD image decal labelled Xidex. The rear sockets are labelled DCE and DTE , connected to a serial I/O daughter card, FR-1 a 34 pin socket FR-2 a40 pin which are connected to a Disk Interface daughter card and the fdd has a daughter card Disk I/O and a free hanging connector for an external floppy. The serial I/O is hard wired to another card labelled Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89 which has a lead to an external RCA connector Cassette I/O as well as a battery pak and a mini-speaker. There is a video card on the bottom. The vertical mounted motherboard has pins for 5 daughter cards and a Z-80 CPU. There's 48 k mem and an additional 16 k daughter card. Another card the same dimension is mounted behind the MB and is labelled Terminal Logic. It also has a Z-80 as well as a Motorola 6845L chip. Any Z-100 people out there ? I guess the question is do I try and ressurect it ? It has such a nice-looking KB and is in such good cosmetic shape that it would hurt to junk it. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c(a)xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C

26 years, 9 months

6
26
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mystery motherboard

by max82＠surfree.com

I heard of a person who was doing 'computer recycling' at a nearby school running into a strange motherboard with 3 386 chips and a 286. Does this sound familiar to anyone, and if I should look at this as a potential source of interesting systems? --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power

26 years, 9 months

1
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Internet as delay line memory?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<No, capacity is limited by the total latency, isn't it? If we arranged No, it's latentcy * data rate. For example 10MBS = 10,000,000 bits per second, where if it were if it were 100,000bits second and the path length were 1 second in both cases you can see the difference. Also for the case presented the aggregate storage is path delay times SLOWEST data rate for path. If there is buffereing there is a more complex calculation but it will never be MAX data rate. Of course the possible delay length is far to variable do the dynamic routing. Allison

26 years, 9 months

1
0
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FS: Compaq Portable II computer.

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I just picked up a couple of Compaq Portable II computers that I thought I'd pass along to anyone that's interested. These are the second model and have an 8 MHz 286 CPU with one floppy drive and one (factory) 20 Mb hard drive. They're in the original travel cases and both the computers and cases are in nearly perfect conditon. The original power cord is even still in it's storage compartment. Works PERFECTLY!!! No screen burns, bad keys, etc. I'll take $50 each plus shipping from 32765. No manuals. Contact me directly if interested. Joe

26 years, 9 months

1
0
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Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by peter＠joules.enterprise-plc.com

Sorry for the post about a machine too young for the list but it is the first of its kind in my collection. The chips seem to be from 1994 and the RiscOS (v3) splash screen also says 1994. This machine came to me as a box only having been an insurance write off because it jumped downstairs but there only seemms to superficial damage. It boots OK but the mouse which appears to be necessary in order to use the OS is missing and appears to have a proprietary connector. Can anyone tell me either if the mice are available? Alternatively is it possible either to persuade it to work with a serial mouse or to wire in a PS/2 socket in place of the original one so that I can use a PS/2 mouse? it seems to have 4M of RAM as 1 72 pin SIMM and 1 other memory board which looks like a miniature DIMM. It also has a HDD with 59 Mb used and 159Mb free so it must be about 220Mb altogether, this make windows look a bit bloated as there appear to be some apps there as well - it also seems to boot very fast compared with modern machines. Does anyone know what processor it has and how fast it is? Thanks Pete

26 years, 9 months

5
9
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Internet as delay line memory?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: > > ... the other night... I remembered a wire delay line memory > > Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend > with the possibility of dropped packets... > > Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply > pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring > packets back to my machine. > > ...wouldn't we create a long delay line > with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing > like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at Ohio State. Then, we envisioned using UUCP to store and forward two weeks of data, based on the known propagation rates from node to node (since some would forward messages only after 23:00 to save on toll charges). We never implemented it, but we did have a theoretical model that probably would have worked. As you say, access times were hell, but you could store lots of data if you absorbed hard drives all over the planet. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

3
4
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Univac pix

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I've got the first few pix of my Univac online now. Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/ Cheers, Bill.

26 years, 9 months

4
3
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WD Chip Info

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually, I do believe they both supported the length of ECC suitable for correction, but only the 2010 could interact properly with the 1014 to perform the correction. Why the 1014 was required in place of host-driver code, I can't say. One could set the ecc length to either 32 or 56 bits, and the latter was required for correction. I didn't figure this out until the details on the PC-based WDFMT program were published, indicating that the 1010 would support either length, though it was common knowledge that only 2010 was actually error-correction-capable. It was never clear to me how the 1014 was going to help with the correction. Apparently it became no less burdensome to effect correction in the host interface code, particularly when the scotched the whole notion of bothering with correction. I don't recall any controller actually going ahead and doing it as part of the drivers. Somebody did publish an error scrubbing app-note though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 9:41 PM Subject: Re: WD Chip Info >> WD2010B - This is the HDC chip, similar to the 1010. Does >I wrote: >> Drop-in replacement for the 1010, with ECC. Also can support >1024 >> cylinders, helpful with the Maxtor XT1140 and Maxtor XT2190 disk drives > >Minor clarification: the chip is a drop in replacement, but if you do that, >I think the drive needs to be reformatted, since the 1010 only uses a CRC >rather then the longer ECC code.

26 years, 9 months

4
3
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Internet as delay line memory?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at >> Ohio State. I think it's one of those things that crops up now and then. We had a similar one here at work whereby we were going to expand our token ring network to create a fatter 'token doughnut' system. Implementation, sadly, was never started, but the theory was there... (it's amazing what you can achieve during boring moments at work!!) cheers Jules

26 years, 9 months

1
0
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Internet as delay line memory?

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Thursday, May 13, 1999 10:16 AM, John Foust [SMTP:jfoust@threedee.com] wrote: > > To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent > discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory > I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay > line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. > > Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend > with the possibility of dropped packets, which might invalidate the entire > experience. But like the "unused" CPU cycles on your PC, there is a > great deal of unused bandwidth. Not everyone's pipe is full, and these > pipes are a form of transient memory. > > Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply > pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring > packets back to my machine. By taking advantage of the delays in > transmitting packets around the world, across fiber lines, under > the sea, up to satellites, etc. wouldn't we create a long delay line > with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing > like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? > > - John > Clever... Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Internet as delay line memory?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend with the possibility of dropped packets, which might invalidate the entire experience. But like the "unused" CPU cycles on your PC, there is a great deal of unused bandwidth. Not everyone's pipe is full, and these pipes are a form of transient memory. Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring packets back to my machine. By taking advantage of the delays in transmitting packets around the world, across fiber lines, under the sea, up to satellites, etc. wouldn't we create a long delay line with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? - John

26 years, 9 months

1
0
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Dayton Hamvention

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> wrote: > Upon the date 09:55 AM 5/11/99 -0700, Marvin said something like: > > > >I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan... > > Hi Ethan, Marvin and others who my be there: > I've suddenly been able to shift my skeds to come to Dayton too... Cool. > ...So, Friday I'll be lurking in the fleamarket to catch those DEC docs > and other needed bits... These days, there's not much DEC stuff. When I started going in 1982, you could find things on maybe as much as 5% of the tables. Now, it's much less than 1%. In any case, I'll be at work in Columbus on Friday. I'm only going on Saturday. Later, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

1
0
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Atari modem

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Greetings, I picked up a rather interesting 8-bit Atari system a while back. It is an Atari 130XE with 1050 floppy drive and a modem. What makes this system interesting is that it has been designed to be more portable. The 130XE's power supply, 1050's power supply, and modem, are all in a grey sheetmetal box, and the 1050 is bolted to the top. There is a large carrying handle on the front of the box, two illuminated power switches, a large unused red lamp, and an LED that is connected to the modem. On the back of the box is the power cord connector, a 7-pin DIN socket for the 130XE's power connection, a 15-pin D connector, and an unused 9-pin D connector. The telephone cable feeds through the crack between the box's lid and its side, and the power connector for the drive is fed through a hole drilled in the back. 14 pins of the 15-pin connector are wired up inside, so it looks like the modem is supposed to connect to the "Expansion" connector on the back of the 130XE (14-pin edge connector). Of course, whatever cable connected the computer to the modem has been lost (it was a Salvation Army find, so I was extremely lucky to get the power cable and SIO cable). The major part on the modem board is an NEC D80C48C. The board has the Atari logo etched on it. There appears to be only 8 actual connections to the board. Does anyone know what kind of modem this is? And which contacts should be wired to which contacts on the Expansion port? Thanks. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

26 years, 9 months

2
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Upcoming Haul: DEC Gear and Documentation

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Looks like various LSI 11s, spare parts, boards, docs. Peripherals include >9 track and (likely) DAT tape, RD53 and RD54 drives, some SMD drives. Vaxes >are of the Microvax III type. Full set of VMS docs, version 4.x. Also an >optical disk drive, unknown make/model, WORM type, about 18" platters. A >total of about 4-5 systems. And where is this happening? Need any help? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

1
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*** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available ***

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they >may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! Some of them certainly are. Others look to be from -6's or older -10's. >All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus >module guide. Mainly because most are not Q-bus, Omnibus, nor Unibus boards. I'll try to remedy that :-). >B014 Are you sure it's not a B104? That's 4 inverters. My memory is real hazy on low-numbered B modules, but most are from -6's or -10's. >G180 Low density R/W amp for RK04 DECPACK drive. >G208 PDP-8 Inhibit driver - replaces G205 >G603 Memory selection matrix for PDP-6 >G808 Power supply control for PDP/8 >G938 RK05J Head Position Servo >M051 Don't recognize this one. >M111 Totem-Pole NAND gates >M113 More Totem-Pole NAND gates >M206 Don't recognize this one >M302 Two one-shots >M3118YA This is a CXA16, a 16-line serial async multiplexer as found in some DEC terminal servers. >M506 Bus receivers, I think. >M624 Bus drivers for PDP-8's and -15's. >M7164 First half of a KDA50 >M8956 >M8957 These two are out of a TU78 formatter. >R002 Common Cathode diode network >R205 I'm pretty sure this is a register module from a PDP-8 >R210 PDP8 Accumulator >R211 MB, PC, MA for PDP8 >R220 3-bit SR for PDP-8 >R405 PDP-8 clock module >R650 Don't recognize it [General note: S modules are generally R modules with clamp loads] >S111 5 mA clamp version of R111 >S181 DC Carry Chain, 6 diode gates and inverter from PDP-8 >S202 5mA clamp version of R202 >S203 5mA clamp version of R203 >S603 5mA clamp version of R603 >W026 PDP-8 connector card >W103 I think some kind of bus transceiver from a PDP-10. >W640 3 pulse converters >W707 Book says "Teletype Transmitter, 8 bit, 2 unit stop code only". I think from a PDP-10. >W998 Blank piece of vectorboard, used for custom circuits. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

3
2
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VAXStation 2000 stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the < drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I < need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. < I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? < < - don Yes. Why do you require VMS5.5-2? MV2000 with 5.5 on it if you do the VMStailor correctly should leave about 100,000 or so free blocks (block=512bytes) on a RD54. The thing to attack is the libraries (there are several for most of the major layerd languages and they are BIG). Without tailor and with DECwindows you will have around 40-60,000 blocks free. Even at that it's still useful! Hint, two VS2000s networked and one with trimmed libraries(any anything else) work real well as one can use the net to make up for the missing stuff. With the right cable a MV2000 can also power and talk to a second RD52/53/54 with plenty of space then available. Allison

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by roblwill＠usaor.net

When I had cleaned out my TRS-80 (was sitting on floor in basement when septic tank backed up), I used a 40lb paint sprayer (air), with a cleaning nozzle on it. I put the suction tube into a bottle of Windex, and it worked great. I rinsed them by swishing them in a tub of warm water. To dry the board, a dish rack and old hairdryer (hood type)with the heat off, work wonders. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted >On Tue, 11 May 1999 allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > >> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: >> >> > Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking >> > was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that >> > seem safe? >> >> Maybe, maybe not, depends. >> >> Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real >> dishwasher that every one is scared off here? > >Good question! The only circuit cards that I would have any hesitation >about would be those with pots/trimpots and perhaps variable capacitors >installed. The possible problem there being getting them really dry. > > - don > >> My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, >> Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been >> a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the >> board. This does not include my expereince with marine equipment that has >> had a swim in salt water (hint salt eats boards!). >> >> > I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to >> > remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). >> >> The core stacks themselves if there were even a hint of something nasty >> on them they'd get washed carefully, it's the fine wire I worry about. >> Generally the sense and driver boards are ok to machine wash. >> >> Allison >> >> >> > >

26 years, 9 months

1
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No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ?

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

> > > >Thing is, I've dealt with a number of 'professional' archivists who > > >couldn't/wouldn't find docs for me. Either they'd didn't know if they had > > >them, or they couldn't easily get to them, or they were too valuable to > > >look at (which begs the question as to why on earth they need to be kept > > >if they aren't going to be used as a source of information). > > > > Indeed if they were "professional" then they would be accomodating to get > > the so-called "too valuable to look at" docs in a form which could be > > looked at by folks like us or other types of researchers. > > Agreed. For most documents produced in the last 200 years, the important > feature is the information that they contain, not the paper/ink that they > were produced with. So looking at a good copy would be equally useful. > > I can fully understand that making copies can damage documents. So why > don't they make 1 good copy using whatever technique causes the least > damage and then treat that as a semi-raare document that can be inspected > carefully by interested people? If it gets damaged (through excessive > copying, perhaps), then they could make one more copy of the original. But if the original is damaged in some way by making the copy (the pages may crumble just in handling), shouldn't the original be saved with the hope that a method of duplicating that doesn't destroy the original with be found in the next few years? Also, if the pages fall apart with with handling, it may not be possible to make a copy at all. Proposal for copying really OLD documents (I get a royalty if someone does this and it works!) 1) Develop a machine that performs a CAT scan of the document without opening it at very high resolution. 2) process the high resolution 3D images captured to determine the ink patterns on each page. 3) OCR the individual pages to recreate the original text Simple, Right? clint

26 years, 9 months

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3
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*** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available ***

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Gang: I'm on a semi-yearly business trip to Ottawa, Ontario. I stopped in this evening at the friendly local computer recycler. Looks like I might have hit a jackpot in regard to many pounds of old DEC cards. These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! The machine is nowhere in sight, as they are a scrap metal place it was like chopped up over the last couple of weeks. Here is a list of the cards. Those in the know, can you advise me and others whether these are of interest. I had the owner put the box aside until I call him back. Total is about 30 pounds of cards. The list contains a sample only. There are, in some cases, 5-6 cards of each type. There are some Q bus and Unibus cards listed too, can you identify them? All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus module guide. Here's the list: B014 G180 G208 G603 G808 G808 G938 M051 M111 M113 M206 M302 M3106 4 LINE MUX M3118YA M3118YA M506 M506 M624 M7164 M7270 LSI-11/02 CPU M7608 2-4 MB RAM M7819 8 PORT SERIAL I/O M7942 VT72 BOOT M7946 RX01 CONTROLLER M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER M8203 RS449 WITH MODEM M8956 M8956 M8957 M8957 R002 R205 R210 R210 R211 R220 R220 R405 R650 R650 S111 S181 S202 S203 S603 W026 W103 W640 W707 W998 If these cards are indeed rare, or of value to anybody on the list, LET ME KNOW OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, so I can pick them up and hold them for you, for shipping and my out-of-pocket costs, of course. Please post to the list, and email me directly, Kevin

26 years, 9 months

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BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<678 PRINT "HELLO" <792 GOTO 678 < <is as good as < <1 PRINT "HELLO" <2 GOTO 1 < <Was this always the case? Yes! I started with Dartmuth basic on a GE tymeshare system in '68. Later the various basics used on DEC PDP-8s. MITS BASIC (ALTAIR), Processor Tech 5k basic, LLLbasic, Tiny basic, Nibble, NS* basic all required line numbers for every line and by default assending order. The FIRST basic I'd seen with out line numbers for every line was Cbasic. 1 print "hello" Goto 1 The first language I'd seen that didn't have that requirement was Fortran on the 8I. Allison <--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) < http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Powe <

26 years, 9 months

1
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VAXStation 2000 stuff

by donm＠cts.com

A few days ago, I undertook to install a Maxtor XT2190 (that had previously been used in a PC running DOS) in my VAXStation 2000. I brought up T 70 and, to my relief and joy, it scanned the disk and declared it an RD54! The relief came since I was not at all sure that I could come up with all of the data that T 70 requires when it goes into query mode. Is there a program that can extract that data from a 'real' RD54? At any rate, the format proceeded smoothly and with the help of Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? - don

26 years, 9 months

2
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VAXStation 2000 stuff

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

Hiya, > > > > A few days ago, I undertook to install a Maxtor XT2190 (that had > previously been used in a PC running DOS) in my VAXStation 2000. I > brought up T 70 and, to my relief and joy, it scanned the disk and > declared it an RD54! The relief came since I was not at all sure that > I could come up with all of the data that T 70 requires when it goes > into query mode. Is there a program that can extract that data from a > 'real' RD54? > The values for the prompts can be found in: http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq_text.html Just load this page, and the search for "test 70". There is another page somewhere that describes how to calculate the media ID, but I forget the URL. > At any rate, the format proceeded smoothly and with the help of > Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the > drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I > need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. > I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? > > - don I dunno, I don't use VMS, but I got a lot of layered product licenses w/tapes. clint

26 years, 9 months

1
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BASIC

by sring＠uslink.net

I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? Stephanie sring(a)uslink.net

26 years, 9 months

8
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Has anyone ever seen an ECD Micromind computer?

by jlewczyk＠his.com

The Comprehensive Computer Catalogue at http://plato.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/ccorgs.htm lists this computer as follows: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- "The ECD Corp's MicroMind was a 6502-based computer dating to around the time of the Apple II. It had memory management (!) and an advanced video display with downloadable fonts, up to 132 characters per line, and smooth scrolling. The prototypes were wire-wrapped, as were the initial (and only, alas) models that were actually sold. Its smooth-scrolling capability, unique among micros at the time, made it attractive to hospitals to present the list of TV stations avilable on hospital channels. The cost of $8K was no object. The plan was to go to printed-circuit board, and ads were taken out in Byte magazine offering the machine for $1500. Orders poured in, but the PC version never appeared (the orders were all refunded). The 3 founders of ECD laid off all its employees and held on for awhile, but ECD itself eventually went bankrupt." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ I have a number of their ads and was wondering whether anyone has ever seen one of these machines in person, or knows any one of the developers.

26 years, 9 months

1
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Mac II stuff needed/wanted

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/11/99 10:00:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, roblwill(a)usaor.net writes: > I'm trying to set up a basic peer-to-peer network between my P200, a P70, > the Mac, and a 5170 in the garage. I have cards for the PC's, but I need > one for the Mac. I'm not sure what kind of card I need (first experience > with a network), so I hope the ones I have for the PC's are the correct type > (they have the BNC connector). Is there any way to tell what type they are > by looking at them? well, any mac II series will need a nubus NIC. If most of the NICs have the bnc (coax) connector, you'll have to get the same for the mac. Good thing is that coax NICs (10base2) are easier to find since they are older. I was lucky to find a combo NIC for my IIsi.

26 years, 9 months

3
2
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static bags

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 11, 21:45, Jay West wrote: > Subject: static bags > I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated > from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. > > Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards > in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from > the list? Most electronics suppliers should sell them, though you might have to buy them in tens or hundreds. they're certainly easy to get here. Another cheap sopurce is often PC shops that assemble PCs; they get interface cards and hard drives in them, and tend to throw them away. The silvered ones are static shielded and static dissipative, the black conductive ones are static dissipative, the pink ones are not very good at anything (except perhaps keeping the dust off). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

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New-fangled languages (was: BASIC

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Upon the date 07:51 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something like: >> >> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web >> >>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? >> >Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a >> >Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have? >On Wed, 12 May 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: >> Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-) >> Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always >> having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears. > >So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without >line numbers! And dialects of FORTRAN that don't require a FORMAT >statement! And did you hear about "Visual COBOL"?? Yep! Imagine that! > > >What is this world coming to? It's plumb gone to Hell in a handbasket! :) Seriously, the newer compilers/interpreters for the old time languages such as BASIC, FORTRAN, etc. are benefiting from new ideas introduced in the new generation of languages. This is of course possible not just because of new thinking but because cheaper memory and cheaper mass storage allows code to be added which implement those new fangled ideas. Kinda gotten out of hand nowadays it seems judging from the amount of code bloat found in some new compilers. Back in the early days when every single byte of RAM and disk storage counted, no matter what new idea came along it was hard to implement as it had to be supported by hardware resources. And those resources were either not invented yet or way too expensive for the majority of users. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

26 years, 9 months

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BASIC

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

And of course, let's not forget TimeShare BASIC on the HP2000! <grin> It ran on 2100, 21MX, and 21MXE systems (all HP). That system brought up a BASIC environment on each terminal (no access to other languages, etc.). No editor either, to replace a line you just retyped the line using the same line number. According to Jeff Moffat's website, there was also a multiuser BASIC available on the 2100. It appears to be a stripped down precursor to TSB. Matter of fact, he has an emuator AND the images for the multiuser BASIC available on his website. IIRC, it's at http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100 Cheers! Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:43 AM Subject: Re: BASIC >Upon the date 02:35 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Mike Ford said something like: >>> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web >>>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? >>>Stephanie sring(a)uslink.net >> >>Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a >>Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have? >> > >Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-) > >Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always >having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears. >Nowadays, the apparent influences of other structured languages like the >Pascal flavors, ADA, C/C++, etc. have allowed modern BASICs to be designed >to not use line numbers, and hence, be somewhat more structured :) > >First BASIC I came across that didn't have line numbering was BASIC-09 that >I used on my OS-9/68k industrial computer in the late 80's. The BASIC-09 >was first written for the 6809-based Radio Shack Color Computers (early >80's vintage) which ran OS-9 Level 1 and was eventually ported over to the >68000 level of OS-9. Compared with the OS-9 Pascal I also had, it looked >quite similar. That brought me renewed respect for BASIC. *Structured* >BASIC, that is. > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa >

26 years, 9 months

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Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by mbg＠world.std.com

>If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, >what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, >CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, >and the regulator card). Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck with doing it... I'm sure she'll pipe in here with info on how to do it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

5
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static bags

by edick＠idcomm.com

If memory serves, there are two classes of protective wrap which are SUPPOSED to be used. One, the "primary" packaging layer, is supposed to be moderately conductive so that it forms a protective layer around the entire perpiphery of the card, thereby protecting it (the card) from spot chrges transferred to it by handling. The other, the "secondary" packaging layer, is intended to provide mechanical protection for the card and its primary packaging. Common examples of the primary packaging include the black conductive bags we commonly see used for this purpose. The pink-poly bags and bubble wrap, etc, are anti-static but not conductive, and are consequently qualified as "secondary" packaging, as they create no static charge on their own, but don't do anything to dissipate it. Aluminum foil, properly applied will qualify as primary packaging, though it's not ideal due to its fragility. The fact that it will discharge batteries and other things likely to be found on a board causes other concerns, but, PROPERLY applied, it will serve as primary ESD-protective packaging. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 12:27 AM Subject: Re: static bags >>I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated >>from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. >> >>Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards >>in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from >>the list? >> >>Jay West > >Sadly our new servers are using different hard drive sleds, the ones we'd >been using were perfect for dual and quad height DEC boards, and I'm about >out also. > >I've a question along this line, what about newspaper? I've used that, but >I've heard recently that's not a good idea. > >I've gotten boards wrapped in foil, not sure if they worked, don't remember >if I tested them (scares the H*** out of me having them wrapped that way >even though I hear it's safe) > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 9 months

1
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static bags

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

>>I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated >>from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. >> >>Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards >>in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from >>the list? The best price I have found recently is from Contact East (800) 743-8181. http://www.contacteast.com The following is per hundred of each size. 6X10 $7.70 10X12 $13.50 12X18 $24.80. These are the sizes I just recently bought to cover dual, quad and hex width DEC boards. Granted they are only 1.6 mil but I only use them for end user sales. I have talked one of the scrappers I work with into saving the ones he gets in for everything else. Dan

26 years, 9 months

1
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Commodore cassettes

by mranalog＠home.com

Doug Spence said: > Wow! I guess you really MUST be the senior software engineer to have > a C64 dev station at work. :) (Not a comment on age, a comment on > being allowed to have cool toys at work.) I have my office full of some of my favorite toys, and a large selection of classic computer documentation. It's a great stress reliever. > 25.5K doesn't seem too bad, but after reading the rest of your > description and the sample output from your program, maybe it *isn't* > good enough. The differences between the short and long pulses aren't > very big. You're using 15 samples as your cutoff between short and > long, and I see that 14, 15 and 16 appear. That's shaving it pretty > close! Like I said, I stopped at this point, but you'll notice that once you read pass the two cycles that make up the sync bit, the rest of the cycles in that byte consist of one large cycle and one small cycle. If you compare the cycle lengths IN PAIRS then the different in small and large cycles becomes more pronounced and you can forget about the 15 samples definition.(One has to be smaller than the other) I didn't find the header format reference I mentioned, I do know that the header is read into the cassette buffer and I believe that make it about 191 or 192 bytes long. I also know that when the header is loaded into the cassette buffer in the C64: $033D - Low byte of start address $033E - High byte of start address $033F - Low byte of ending address $0340 - High byte of ending address $0341 - Start of the filename Looking at the printout I sent, it looks to me that the header starts with 9 to 1 countdown, then the header ID number. I (again) believe that 01 is the ID for a program header and 04 is the ID for a data file header. Then you have the start address (01 08 = $0801) and the ending address (23 08 = $0823). Followed by the filename. --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA ====================================================

26 years, 9 months

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(no subject)

by Stukncyber＠aol.com

Hi, I came across your address while researching Osborne computers. My mom is moving, and in packing her things, we came across my late father's Osborne Model OCC1 computer, printer, and original manuals. The unit was barely used, as my father passed away shortly after purchasing it. I was wondering if there is any interest out there for this piece of computer technology history--either via purchase or donation. Thank you for your time.

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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static bags

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 11, 23:16, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've gotten boards wrapped in foil, not sure if they worked, don't remember > if I tested them (scares the H*** out of me having them wrapped that way > even though I hear it's safe) Foil is fine[1], because it's conductive, just like black conductive plastic bags and black conductive foam, only more so, of course. The drawback is that it tends to get punctured by the protruding leads and is easily torn. The point of any static dissipative system is to keep everything at the same potential. [1] except for anything that has a backup battery on board, or for a few CMOS real-time-clock chips (most are OK, though). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

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Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 12, 6:50, Pete Joules wrote: > I found the commmand line interface 'by accident' simply pressing all of the > non alpha keys in turn, F12 scrolled the desktop up by one line and a * > prompt appeared so as a first guess I typed 'help' and found what appears to > be quite a comprehensive help system. The only trouble is, I can't find a > way back to the desktop without resetting it :(. Assuming the default settings for the system is the desktop, you can get back simply by pressing the RETURN key on a line by itself (no spaces, etc). You can see the system settings by typing *status. You can set them with *configure. You can see the environment settings (which mostly also apply to the desktop) with *show. You can set them with *configure. You can enter BASIC from the command line with *BASIC. And so on... All of these commands accept abbreviations, eg *sh. for *show. They're not case-sensitive, by the way. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

1
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(fwd) Free HP-9000 system

by donm＠crash.cts.com

From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: (fwd) Free HP-9000 system -- forwarded message -- Path: nusku.cts.com!mercury.cts.com!nntp.flash.net!newsfeed.usit.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail From: zonn @ zonn . com (Zonn) Newsgroups: sdnet.forsale Subject: Free HP-9000 system Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:31:58 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3739bde8.19667537(a)news.supernews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 926465326 MWA72TVIJC708CCD8 usenet49.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Xref: nusku.cts.com sdnet.forsale:1211 Somebody out there must collect these old things? System includes: Qty Part ---- ---- 1 HP-9000 CPU 2 HP-9144 Tape drive 1 HP-9121 Floppy Disks 1 HP-9122 Floppy Disks Many Sketch Pro digitizing pads 2 Think Jet Printers (HPIB) 2 Paint Jet Printers (HPIB) Some Miscellaneous odds and ends, includes box of operating system tapes. 0 Documentation First person to email, and is able to pick up (or I'm willing to drop off) takes it all. But you got to be smart enough to remove all the spaces in the following email address: zonn @ zonn . com I'm not interesting in shipping this anywhere, I'm in the North County area of San Diego, CA -Zonn -- end of forwarded message --

26 years, 9 months

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Mac II stuff needed/wanted

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I probably should have been more specific about the network card I need. I'm trying to set up a basic peer-to-peer network between my P200, a P70, the Mac, and a 5170 in the garage. I have cards for the PC's, but I need one for the Mac. I'm not sure what kind of card I need (first experience with a network), so I hope the ones I have for the PC's are the correct type (they have the BNC connector). Is there any way to tell what type they are by looking at them? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> BTW: My school ran a token ring network until this year. They had a full 256bps transfer rate by the time the computers in the basement got connected (which took about 30 minutes). -----Original Message----- From: Stan Perkins <stan(a)netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 6:21 AM Subject: Re: Mac II stuff needed/wanted >Jason Willgruber wrote: >> >> I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II >> introduced? > >I bought my first Mac II in September 1987. > >> Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI >> card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. > >If you want a Token Ring NuBus card, I've got one you're welcome to >have. > >Regards, >Stan >

26 years, 9 months

1
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New find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today at a Police auction I picked up IBM AS/400 model 9309 for $25 for the rack and other parts. Not sure when I will be able to fire it up.

26 years, 9 months

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Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

But wouldn't the water jets in a dishwasher play havoc with those small ECO wires? Jay West

26 years, 9 months

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Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that seem safe? I used to use something similar when I worked for FLUKE-- we'd use water with like a mild detergent. But then, these boards were specifically manufactured to be cleaned this way. I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). Thanks again, guys. Jeff On Tue, 11 May 1999 09:05:06 -0400 (EDT) allisonp(a)world.std.com writes: > > >Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... > > >I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck > > >with doing it... > > > > That kind of scares me also. I've had good luck with Mac's with a > deep > > sink, mild detergent, and a rather large food dryer. > > The PDP-8f boards (except core and FP) were cleaned in the dish > washer. > All that needs to be done is put them in like plates and use the > standard > dishwasher soap remove before the dry cycle (too warm) and dry in a > 160-170 degree Farenheight oven. A little air to get water from > under > chips is not a bad thing. High pressure air can be deadly as some > boards > may have jumpers and ECO wire that can easily be bown off with > 120psi air! > > Same for scrubbing as solvents like Isopropanal will swell some > plastics > used then and the tooth brush may remove part numbers you may later > need > to read. > > Allison > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

26 years, 9 months

7
6
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Commodore cassette format

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 11, 11:00, John Foust wrote: > At 10:16 AM 5/11/99 -0500, Doug Spence wrote: > >BTW, what is a "Hurkle" tape? :) > > Hurkle was a game, way back when. I don't remember the theme offhand. > I don't know where it originated, but I'm sure it was in Computer Lib > and/or David Ahl's early books. It's in "BASIC Computer Games", and also on one of the RSTS tapes, I think. It's one of the classic guess-the-location games; the hurkle hides on a X by X grid, you guess which square, and for each guess, the computer tells you roughly which direction you'd have to go in to reach it. Anyone who can't bear to miss it, can see hurkle and other exciting inducements on my Exidy Sorcerer, at York University's Open Day tomorrow (Wednesday). The Computer Science Department has a small exhibit of historical micros, including a PDP11/23 running 7th Edition UNIX, an Apple ][, a PET 2001-8K (calculator keyboard, and the original PET MOONLANDER program), Sorcerer, BBC Model B (running Elite and REVS), Apple Mac Plus, Archimedes A310 (serial no.2, running RISC OS, and acting as the tape drive for the Sorcerer :-)), SGI Indigo R3000. I'd show more of my collection, but there's not enough room. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

1
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OT: Matrox Millenium II RAM Upgrade

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I realize this is totally off topic, but I've really no idea where to go with a PC question. After months of searching I managed to aquire a brand new Matrox Millenium II PCI 4Mb Video board, and a 4Mb expansion. Stupid question, which way does the expansion plug in? I've no doc's for the expansion and the Matrox web site seems to be useless! For the curious, yes, there is a reason I've been searching for one of these boards for months. It's about the best board supported by OPENSTEP, it is also supported by BeOS, Linux, and some flakey little OS or two out of Washington. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 9 months

2
1
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Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 11, 22:04, Pete Joules wrote: > Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) > Sorry for the post about a machine too young for the list but it is the > first of its kind in my collection. The chips seem to be from 1994 and the > RiscOS (v3) splash screen also says 1994. > > This machine came to me as a box only having been an insurance write off > because it jumped downstairs but there only seemms to superficial damage. > It boots OK but the mouse which appears to be necessary in order to use the > OS is missing and appears to have a proprietary connector. Can anyone tell > me either if the mice are available? It should be a 9-pin miniDIN, it's a proprietary mouse. The original one for a machine of that vintage was a badged Logitech OEM mouse, but any mouse that outputs raw quadrature signals (fours signals for X0,X1, Y0, Y1) and three buttons (left, middle, right) will do. CPC (http://www.cpc.co.uk/home.htm) sell Archimedes-compatible mice, as do several Acorn dealers. > Alternatively is it possible either to > persuade it to work with a serial mouse or to wire in a PS/2 socket in > place of the original one so that I can use a PS/2 mouse? HENSA have some software packages that allow you to use a serial mouse on the serial port (http://micros.hensa.ac.uk/platforms/riscos.html). You can't use a PS/2 mouse directly. > it seems to have 4M of RAM as 1 72 pin SIMM and 1 other memory board which > looks like a miniature DIMM. It also has a HDD with 59 Mb used and 159Mb > free so it must be about 220Mb altogether, this make windows look a bit > bloated as there appear to be some apps there as well - it also seems to > boot very fast compared with modern machines. Minimum sensible RAM is 4M, but it will hold up to 256MB, in 72-pin fast page mode SIMMs (it doesn't need parity, but parity SIMMs will work), 70ns or faster. The other memory board is dual-ported VRAM for faster video access. Not essential. > Does anyone know what processor it has and how fast it is? Originally, an Arm 610 on a daughter board. A 710 or 810 or StrongARM will also work. Many people bought upgrades when they came out, so you often see 610s or 710s for sale for ten quid or less. Or ask on one of the acorn newsgroups; they're common enough and cheap enough that people often din't bother to advertise them, and still have them lying around. There's a fairly good Acorn FAQ which you can get from the usual sources, and is posted to the Acorn newsgouops (comp.sys.acorn.*) regularly. You really don't want this machine. I suggest you parcel it up and send it to me :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

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HP 150 Touchscreen

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: After I wrote... > > > > Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware... > > > > Remember the entire CRT screen was visible through the hole in the middle > of the board. So the board itself is a lot bigger than the CRT. If what I've got is for a 9" CRT then I should be able to use it with a PET! -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive

by edick＠idcomm.com

Careful with that grease! Vaseline is likely to make some plastic alloys soft, as it contains solvents for some of them. The clear grease most often used in lubricating plastic gears, bushings, etc, is called "lithium grease" and is available at most wholesale outlets which sell screws, nuts, bolts, etc. by the box. I have, by the way, found that a box of 100 of some of the more common screws found in electronics is a really worthwhile investment and saves money in the long run. This is especially true of metric sizes. Here in Denver, it's the rule rather than the exception that hardware and car parts stores sell both metric nuts and bolts, yet it's unusual to have bolts and nuts of the same size as marked on the blister pack actually fit. I don't know why this is, but it's a real pain in the gluteus maximus! I've never had this result at Fasteners Inc. I guess that's why I'd rather buy the small stuff by the box there rather than the handful at the hardware store. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive >> >> Hi, >> >> On Fri, 7 May 1999 Tony Duell wrote: >> > Take off the spring. I believe that you can normally take the collet >> > apart further, but this isn't in the manual. Apply a smear of grease >> > (either plastic grease or vaseline) to the spindle and reassemble. Put >> > the spring on with the smaller end against the collet. >> >> Tried doing that, and it didn't help. It turns out that the C-clip was >> vibrating, causing the noise; I should probably have figured that out sooner. >> Putting some grease in the groove that the clip fits into solved the problem. I > >The C-clip should be a tight fit on the spindle. If it can move relative >to the spindle, then it's too loose. It might be worth taking it off and >either replacing it or squeezing it slightly. > >> guess using a hot-melt glue gun would do the job too. (Maybe this info will be > >I am strongly of the opinion that if something is assembled with glue >then it was designed incorrectly :-). And I would certainly never put >glue on something that I might want to take apart later. > >> of use to someone in future?) >> >> >> -- Mark >> >> > >-tony >

26 years, 9 months

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Dayton Hamvention

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> wrote: > > I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan. I should have my 2m rig with me... I don't know what freq the show is using for the public repeater, but I'm N8TVD. > ...how to get in touch with anyone there, but I will be speaking at the > ARDF forum Saturday morning... I can keep that in mind. I _won't_ be there Friday; I have to earn the money to buy the toys. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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WD Chip Info

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: I need someone to ID these WD devices for me. They don't appear in any of the docs that I have. WD10C20A WD2010B - This is the HDC chip, similar to the 1010. Does anyone have the actual datasheet for the 2010? WD1015 WD11C00 WD16C92 These chips have all appeared on AT controllers at one time or another. I'm trying to find out if they can be used for something a little more useful :^} ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

26 years, 9 months

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HP 150 Touchscreen

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: ...long after I wrote... > > Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware... > > Assuming it _is_ from an HP150 machine... Indeed. > The original version (fits a 9" CRT) used a 10-pin 2 row connector : > > 1 o o 6 > 2 o o 7 > 3 o o 8 > 4 o o 9 > 5 o o 10 That's the connector, but I think it fits a larger monitor than 9", unless there's lots of space around it for the IR hardware. Many thanks, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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Looking for Ron Ward

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, Please pardon the bandwidth...I'm looking for a valid email address for "Ron Ward", possibly something @jps.net. I received email from him, and he sounded like someone who should be on ClassicCmp... but his "from" address (n6idlron(a)jps.net) is bad ("unknown user"), and support at jps.net says "no one in our database with such a name". thanks, Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com

26 years, 9 months

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Power PC????

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC 604 and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and what kind OS they run? Joe

26 years, 9 months

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Places in LA?

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I'm going to be in LA Wed 5/12 til Sun 5/16 for E3. Don't know if I'll have time or much in the way of transportation, but is there any interesting places to look for classic computer stuff while I'm there? Silly me, of course there are, question is will any of you tell me where your secret fishing holes are? :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years, 9 months

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Pictures from the final Paxton auction...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

For those who are still curious, but not inclined to cut and paste the collections of URLs I offered previously... The images from the final Paxton auction have (finally) coalesced into a web page, accessible from the 'recent events and appearances' selection on the Computer Garage home page: http://www.computergarage.org -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!

26 years, 9 months

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Commodore cassette format

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Here's a transcript of a converstation I had with Jim Butterfield about the Commodore cassette format: ==================== #: 42513 S2/Programming (CIS:CBMAPP) 31-Jul-97 17:49:07 Sb: CBM programming info Fm: Jim Butterfield 73624,14 To: Richard Cini/WUGNET 70153,3367 Replies: 0 TID: 8132 Par: 42485 Chd: 0 Sib: 0 > I seem to be missing some info on the following: info on the structure of > the tape header, and the equates for the "I/O Error#" messages (i.e., the > descriptions behind the error numbers). Can anyone point me in the right > direction on this? Hoo-eee! You picked a dilly of a complex format to look at (and some heavy code to read .. I swear that I could rewrite it into about half the ROM!). Probably the best place to start is on page 97 of the Inner Space Anthology. where there's some basic data by some guy called Butterfield: Leader = 50 cycles of Shorts Short = 182 microseconds half cycle or 2.75 Khz Long = 262 microseconds half cycle or 1.91 KHz Mark = 342 microseconds half cycle or 1.48 KHz BYTE MARKER = Mark Mark Long Long (What goes mark mark? A dog with a harelip. Oops, sorry, continuing..) 1-bit: Long Long Short Short 0-bit: Short Short Long Long Data Byte = Byte marker, 8 1/0 bits, 1 1/0 odd-parity bit' about 9.02 milliseconds total. Leader detail (I'm faking this one from memory); after the leader, there's a countdown byte series from about 0F hex to 00 hex; on the "second" block, the countdown is repeated with the high bit set, thus, 8F down to 80 hex. Tape File Format: Leader - header block - data block - possible end block. (All blocks written twice). Hope this gets you started. --Jim ================== #: 42554 S2/Programming (CIS:CBMAPP) 01-Aug-97 14:41:14 Sb: CBM programming info Fm: Jim Butterfield 73624,14 To: Richard Cini/WUGNET 70153,3367 Replies: 0 TID: 8132 Par: 42522 Chd: 0 Sib: 0 > I guess that the "countdown blocks" really are some sort of synchronization > before the header block? Yes. As I recall the code (it's been a while!), the reading program looks for this stream; when it finds an identifiable countdown byte, it just counts off the remaining characters until it gets to the data. It always seemed a bit like overkill to me. And when you get into the code itself, you'll find some quite obscure stuff in there trying to synchronize with the tape speed (a sort of self-correcting timing). Tough reading. > I'd like to get my hands on the "Inner Space Anthology" book. Can you help > there?? Karl Hildon, the compiler of the anthology, recently reprinted a quantity, with some C128 data added (the original anthology was published before the 128 arrived). I see his email address has been posted. Since Karl republished using a copying machine (including a colour copies for the cover), I believe he's asking about $20 for a copy. But check it out directly with him. If for any reason you can't find him, come back to me. --Jim ================== #: 42698 S2/Programming (CIS:CBMAPP) 08-Aug-97 12:07:27 Sb: CBM programming info Fm: Jim Butterfield 73624,14 To: Richard Cini/WUGNET 70153,3367 Replies: 0 TID: 8132 Par: 42665 Chd: 0 Sib: 0 > Am I doing the math wrong?? You have me at a couple of disadvantage. It's been something like 18 years since I picked apart the tape code, os it's nor fresh in my mind. To add to my difficulties, I have a vision problem at the moment which hopefully will be corrected by surgery in the fall ... but it makes it hard for me to do detailed picking through listings. Before I start sounding like I'm copping out, I will have some comments for you that may explain at least part of the discrepancy. But first, a couple more vague excuses: darned if I can remember where those timing numbers came from after all this time; seems likely that I filched them from a Commdore design spec, or someone measured them with a time base calibrated scope. I tend to doubt that I sweated through counting microseconds. And in this response, I should mention that my original investigations were on the PET 2001, my snoop today was on the C128 (built-in monitor makes exploring easier). And a caution to anyone with a Plus-4 or C-16 .. the code (and tape format) is not the same for those two machines. Here's the deal, I think: All this stuff is running off an IRQ. The "last" think the tape routine does is to set the timer ("last" is in quotes because there may be other IRQ jobs done after the tape work). BUT: after the timer is set, and the interrupt finally hits to signal that the time has elapsed, it will be quite a few microseconds before the tape routines will get to the point where they will set the timer again. First, the IRQ goes though the ROM routine which stashes the registers. Then, it does an indirect jump to the tape-write code; but it has to do quite a bit of investigation before it gets around to setting up the timer again. Even the timer routines you quote are within a subroutine, and of course it takes time to make the call, set up the numbers, etc. I might guess that the overhead taken to get to the "bit write" timer set could be in the region of 86 machine cycles. Thus, a timer value of $B0 or decimal 176 would actually generate a time of 176+86 machine cycles, or 262 cycles; a value of $60 or decimal 96 would produce 96+86 or 182 cycles. (Works out so exactly that, gosh, maybe long ago I did painstakingly count all the machine cycles .. if so, I've blissfully forgotten doing so). In looking at the code, you'll note that the byte marker is detected earlier in the interrupt sequence; I'll guess a delay or 70 (rather than 86) to get to that timer sequence. This would generate $110 or 272 o the timer producing an overall time of 272+70 or 342 machine cycles. Now, about the clock actually running at 1.1082 MHz. The original PET didn't have an interface to NTSC video, and the clock ran at precisely 1 MHz. So the calculation were correct during the ancient PET/CBM days; but it appears Commodore didn't see any need to trimthe figures by 10% when they changed the clock to match video frequencies. Never thought of that; but I expect that it's true that machines from the VIC-20 onward wrote tape about 9% faster than the earlier machines. I wonder if they made any adjustment for European machines, which likely had another clock frequency so as to be PAL compatible. Does the above sound like a plausible theory? --Jim p.s. The tape WRITE part is easy ... when you get to that read stuff, with multiple timers going, it's gonna be real fun. ================= [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator

26 years, 9 months

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Commodore cassette format

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Hi, I need some information about the Commodore cassette storage format. I want to salvage something from a damaged cassette, and I have a (rather crummy) audio digitizer. I've spent a couple of hours staring at the signals >from stored programs but I just don't 'get it'. In the data portions, it appears as if every 20th wave is special, with maximum amplitude and a smaller frequency. If these are synchronization points, why does it appear to be at every 20th wave? Why not every 9th? Does the format not care about bytes? Or is there some kind of error detection or correction scheme taking up more bits? There are about 200 of these 'synchronization waves' just in the header. The machine-readable file I was looking at only has a three-character filename. What data is normally stored in the header? Filename, load address, checksum or CRC, etc? It sounds like there are two identical copies of the header information. I know that there are two copies of the actual file data. How is the data actually stored? I expected to see square waves with frequency modulation. IIRC, that's what the Apple does. The PET appears to use sine waves (non-flattened) and I can't visually discern any frequency differences in the data (at a sample rate of approx. 25,500 per second). A lot of the data portion of the file I'm looking at looks like it is stored with amplitude modulation, but I don't think that would make sense with such a flaky thing as cassette tape. There are large amplitude "gulleys" here and there in the file, yet the file I'm looking at loads properly. (Of course, it sure SOUNDS like it's using frequency modulation. Perhaps I should sample at a higher rate, and get out a ruler to measure the width of the waves...) Those 20 waves don't represent a single bit, do they? (Lessee... approx. 60 waves per 600 samples, 25,500 samples per second... that's 2,550 Hz, and 20 waves/bit = 127.5 bps, which isn't enough but is getting somewhat closer to the numbers I'd expect. Maybe I'll answer some of my own questions with another look at the samples.) The damaged file that I want to salvage has had its header wiped out (someone momentarily hit "RECORD"), but the data appears to be untouched. Is there a way of getting the PET (or any other machine) to read the data without the file header? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

26 years, 9 months

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Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, and the regulator card). Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

26 years, 9 months

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Kaypro 2x available

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Another item seeking a home... Replies to original poster please... -jim ----------- >Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 09:36:04 -0500 >From: FRedFritz <frederick.fritz(a)mankato.msus.edu> >Reply-To: ffritz(a)mail.mankato.msus.edu >X-Sender: "FRedFritz" <ffritz(a)mail.mankato.msus.edu> (Unverified) >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) >To: jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >Subject: Kapro 2x available > >Dear Jim, > >I have a working Kapro 2x which I have just retired. I purchased it new >in 1985. It is in mint condition and I have all the software and >manuals that came with it. I would be delighted to find a "good home" >for it with someone who would appreciate it. Fred Fritz > >ffritz(a)mail.mankato.msus.edu --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

26 years, 9 months

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old PDPs in Australia

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

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26 years, 9 months

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GTS-100 Power Supply Info Needed

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I have a Future Systems Inc. Model GTS-100 floppy drive for the Atari ST series computers but I don't have the manuals, cables or power supply. Does any one know specs on the power supply for this drive so I can locate a replacement. I think I once heard that it could use the same power supply as the Atari 5200 game system but don't know for sure. Also, if anyone has a source for cables or the strange 14 pin ST connector so I could make some cables, please let me know. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years, 9 months

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Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

Other than the core stack the first thing I do is the 120 lb air hose. It cleans a lot of sins. At least lets you see what kind of mess you have. (what was used for glue) Then Isopropyl, methanol, or some window cleaner and a paint brush or soft well worn tooth brush and blasting it frequently with air. Use an old towel to wipe the paint brush on to clean it between strokes. Be sure to wear safety glasses. Alcohol in the eyes is no fun. Dan -----Original Message----- From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 10:30 PM Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted >Guys: > >If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, >what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, >CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, >and the regulator card). > >Jeff > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >

26 years, 9 months

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Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, >what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, >CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, >and the regulator card). For everything except the core stack, I wouldn't hesitate to run them through the dishwasher and gently dry. The core stack should be treated substantially more delicately. If you want to see "impossibly dirty", you ought to see some 11/23's that I was maintaining at a solar cell plant. Absolutely incredibly quantities of incredibly fine aluminum dust over everything - in some cases built up over a quarter inch thick - yet they kept on (for the most part) working. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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Two quick questions, TK70 & DSSI

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

1) Can a TK70 drive read/write TK50 tapes? I'm looking for media for the TK70 to test it and all I've found so far are TK50 tapes (or are they the same tape?) 2) What termination requirements are there on DSSI disks? I powered up the two RF71's and the KQSFA DSSI controller in the BA213, they spun up and the ready lights were on but when UNIX probed the controller it saw only one drive and when I tried to read that drive its FAULT light started flashing. The cabinet is set up to connect the card to a ribbon cable that connects both drives and then ends at a funky high density connector (looks a lot like SCSI-2). Thanks, --Chuck McManis

26 years, 9 months

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manuals available

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's right. In fact, I have the '81 data book on the floor right here. The ICM7228 is apparently an 8-digit LED display multiplexer which was not available in '81. I was hoping it was a different part, more like the CMOS 4534, which is a counter-display-driver. In any case, the information I got >from the Harris site and the Maxim site, per a referral from someone in this group, seems to correlate with my recollection, such as it is, of what these devices are. The 7226 is a 10 MHz frequency counter circuit with LED drivers built in. I once hooked up the part in a 9-digit application using a fast CMOS BCD counter as a prescaler rather than the ECL jewel they designed in their app-note. That makes it almost useful, as it then counts up to 100 MHz in several modes. Of course, you have to prescale both the inputs in order to make it work right, but it's a handy little tool if you package it right. That outrageously large board of Intersil's was pretty impractical except for the purpose for which it was intended, which was to demostrate how their porduct works. They didn't make it easy to up the count rate by a decade, nor did they make signal routing in and out very handy. The switches they used forced one to mount the board in a large box even though only a small area was needed for the display and switches. Their eval kit for the 7106 DPM was about as impractical. It got us to buy them, though, didn't it? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 3:02 PM Subject: Re: manuals available >Richard, > > I have a couple of old Intersil Evaluation kits and the manuals list all >of the devices available in 1981 but don't list a 7228. Are you sure it's >not a 7226? or else it's newer than 1981. > > Joe > >At 03:46 PM 5/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >>I've run into Intersil's ICM7228 once again and find my data book doesn't >>cover that number. It's date coded '87, so It's probably in the last book I >>got from Intersil before they were acquired by GE. >> >>Has anyone got a complete sheet on this part? I believe it is a >>multi-decade counter/display driver, or maybe just a display driver. >> >>thanx >> >>Dick >> >> >

26 years, 9 months

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HP 150 Touchscreen

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:08 PM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >--- Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: > >First, I wrote: >> >Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware, not the CPU or monitor. >> >I picked it up at the Dayton Hamfest a couple of years ago because it looked >> >neat. > >> Sounds like you got one touch screen parts for the later TouchScreen II >> computer. It was an option on that computer and some terminals. It was >> built into the HP 150. > >Ah. Got it. > >> I THINK that all you have is a bezel with two rows of LED IR emitters >> and two rows of photo receptors. > >That's the one! > >> All you had to do to install it on the TS II was to pop out the old >> bezel, plug in the cable and snap this bezel in place. > >Are there any specs out there for the TS II that might be useful in attempting >to interface one to a different kind of computer? No, I don't think so. I think I have a service manual for the TS II but I don't think it gives any details about the touch screen. I expect that you would have to at least write a device driver before you could add it to another computer. Joe > >Thanks, > >-ethan > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >

26 years, 9 months

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replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply

by edick＠idcomm.com

What are the physical dimensions of this transformer, Eric? I've been rooting around in that portion of the basement which has such things. Perhaps I have a potential drop-in replacement. I know I still have a couple of the transformmers from the ALTAIR, though I don't know which one. You may recall I bought a load of a couple of hundred back in the late '70's. I've got a number of different transformers that might serve. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 2:14 AM Subject: Re: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply >Dave Dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net> replied about my IMSAI PSU woes: >> If the voltages checked out without a load, look for a very >> good short somewhere. > >The incoming AC was measured at 120.0 VAC. The primary has taps for >nominal, -10%, and +10% input. When I received it, it was apparently set >for -10%. I say apparently because the transformer doesn't match the one >in the IMSAI manual. The no-load DC voltages are expected to run high, but >these were even higher: 25V vs. 18V, 11V vs. 8V. I switched it to the +10% >tap, and now under some load (CPU, one memory card, front panel) the DC >voltages are very close to the nominal values. So I suppose this could be >indicative of shorted turns in the primary. > >> The 5 Amp line fuse didn't blow? > >Nope. But the transformer emitted a foul stench after a few minutes. It >wasn't hot enough to be painful to touch, but it was close.

26 years, 9 months

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manuals available

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've run into Intersil's ICM7228 once again and find my data book doesn't cover that number. It's date coded '87, so It's probably in the last book I got from Intersil before they were acquired by GE. Has anyone got a complete sheet on this part? I believe it is a multi-decade counter/display driver, or maybe just a display driver. thanx Dick

26 years, 9 months

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HP 150 Touchscreen

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- ss(a)allegro.com wrote: > > Re: > > > I've been playing with a HP 150 recently. Do any of you physicists out > > there know how the touch screen works? > > Infrared beams...at least for the HP 150 A and B. > > The first two models had visible holes where dust could get in and obscure > the IR LEDs. Later, HP added an IR-transparent bezel over them to avoid > that problem. Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware, not the CPU or monitor. I picked it up at the Dayton Hamfest a couple of years ago because it looked neat. Is there enough information out there to attempt to interface one of these units to another kind of computer? There is a ribbon cable with fifteen to twenty wires coming off of one side. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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HP 150 Touchscreen

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: First, I wrote: > >Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware, not the CPU or monitor. > >I picked it up at the Dayton Hamfest a couple of years ago because it looked > >neat. > Sounds like you got one touch screen parts for the later TouchScreen II > computer. It was an option on that computer and some terminals. It was > built into the HP 150. Ah. Got it. > I THINK that all you have is a bezel with two rows of LED IR emitters > and two rows of photo receptors. That's the one! > All you had to do to install it on the TS II was to pop out the old > bezel, plug in the cable and snap this bezel in place. Are there any specs out there for the TS II that might be useful in attempting to interface one to a different kind of computer? Thanks, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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Interesting Ohio Scientific Information

by bill＠chipware.com

Thought those on the list that are interested in OSI might want to see this. From an OSI engineer who still wishes to remain anonymous: > Hi Bill, > I haven't forgot you, just got around to pulling box > out of storage. > The plastic cases are C1P Series 2. I ran across a > usage report dated 11/24/1980 that indicates we had > plastic shells in stock then. Those plus what we had > on order at that date was for about 1000 units. Average > weekly usage on the report was 28.5 units. I don't have > any more specific figures than that. I know we shipped > C1P Series 2 units, but I have no idea of the total. ... > If you're not aware of it, the C1P plastic cases were > simply top and bottom shells that attached to a C4P metal > case. The C4P case used the same metal, but had the walnut > sides. There were metal case C1Ps before that. From the > literature I have, it appears the metal case C1P shipped > <until> about August of 1978. An October 1, 1979 sales > information release still showed the metal cased C1P. ... > The same 11/24/1980 usage report shows 4 560ZB PC boards > in stock with none on order and average weekly usage zero. > My guess is that these are the remainder of a run of 5 or 10. > They are very rare. I believe I saw a board once. I never saw > one operating. I did not design it. The 560Z was a redesign > of the earlier 460Z that I don't think I ever saw. The 560Z > board ran the Z80 and Intersil 6100 micros. I have a 560Z > schematic dated August 1977 with status indicated as > "Production". The 460Z is in a March 1976 price list and > appears to only have supported the Intersil 6100. Both boards > require a OSI 6502 based CPU board as a host. I started at OSI > November 1977. The 560Z board appears to be the last board > designed before I became Chief Engineer. I ran across some > technical information that because of PDP8 unique IO micro > code, that you could not simply run PDP8 code on it.

26 years, 9 months

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B020 Transputer Graphics Board info

by Rmeenaks＠aol.com

Hey, The B020 that I have has two connectors on it. One, I am assuming is the 15-pin VGA connector. There is also another connector which looks like a 9-pin EGA connector. Is this correct? How do you connect the B020 to the B008 to make one network instead of two. I will be getting all the support software for the B020 soon. I know Tony has one, so I will be sending him a copy. Does anyone else want one? Also, apparently to use trams greater than size 1, I need jumper pins on the unused tram slots. Where can I get these?? Does anyone have several spares that they are not using???? Thanks. Ram

26 years, 9 months

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HP 150 Touchscreen

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I've been playing with a HP 150 recently. Do any of you physicists out there know how the touch screen works? The electronics for it surround the screen but don't seem to contact it. Some sort of static electricity capacitive effect on one's finger? I'm also having a lot of trouble making images of the disks that came with it. Teledisk doesn't seem to be able to handle the format. Any clues? Hans Olminkhof

26 years, 9 months

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HP keyboards

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

One of the other list members asked me which HP keyboards he should pick up while surplus scrounging. That has started me on a long delayed project to make a list of HP keyboards and the system that they go to. I've started a list and posted it at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/keyboard.txt". If anyone has any additional part numbers or comments please send them to me and I'll post them. Joe

26 years, 9 months

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