- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Woohoo! I got my vs3100 running with the hobbiest CD! Installed it on the big hard disk too! Now I just have to find where I printed out the licence before my PC ate itself. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years

8
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Bringing up a CPM

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The first sector DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE BOOT. < <Hi < It does on my system unless I toggle in a loader or have <EPROMs to do it. I'd like to not have any EPROMs if I don't <need it. The controller automatically loads track 0 sector 1. <I start executing at address zero and it boot loads the <CPM system. The boot loader then jumps to the start of <the CPM and it over writes info at address zero with what <it requires there. As far as I know, I am following the examples That is an example of the MDS800 style of boot. It is also fairly atypical of many. <for a non-MDS800 type system and following exactly what is <shown on 6-14/6-15 of the CPM manual that I got from the <unofficial site. The mapping shows that the first sector <is a cold start loader and the CPM ( CCP ) part doesn't start until <the second sector. Yes that config is specific to the MDS800 and that boot will likely NOT work with any controller in a IMSAI. If the controller in the imsai is the one I think it is (has an 8080 and an d372 FDC), the bios is simplified as that one does a lot of the work. I've built enough CPM system to have the configuration guide memorized. However I stopped going by the book as it's actually a bit to terse and does leave one to much imagination. The book by Andy Johnson-Laird The Programmers CPM Hand book is a must have for anyone doing bios work. Allison

27 years

1
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What's a "computer console" selectric called?

by amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

I'm not sure if it's the same kind of Selectric terminal, but about 20 years ago when I was trying to find an alternative to a Teletype to connect to my homebrew S-100 system, I acquired a used Selectric with a set of solenoids built inside its base to activate the printing mechanism. Maybe this is the model you remember. IBM had to make the base deeper to accommodate the extra actuating solenoids, so unless you placed the Selectric into a cutout or well it would sit too high above the desk for comfortable working. You'd energize solenoids in various zany combinations to tilt the type-ball correctly for each character. Electrical interface was through a 50-pin rectangular AMP connector at the rear, and I believe the solenoids needed 48 vdc. It weighed a ton. Actually, the biggest challenge in interfacing this thing to a computer was to sort out how to read one particular status signal from one of the microswitch contacts in the print mechanism, so your computer could start sending the next character at just the right moment before the mechanical cycle completely finished. Else your software had to pause a few milliseconds between characters, but there was a hidden menace awaiting if you took this easy way and just timed out for each character to finish. The starting-and-stopping would soon wear out the clutch mechanism. With the high duty cycle of computer printing (rather than manual typing) you would eventually put too much strain on the mechanism and wear it out if you didn't poll to respond to that "ready" signal. Many people don't realize the Selectrics were *completely* mechanical. No electronics, just complex and elegant mechanics. A nightmare :-) I gave mine away years ago. If I recall correctly it was a "Model 735 i/o Selectric". Maybe that name will help you track one down. I bought mine surplus from an outfit in England back in '77, but there were companies selling similar models in the USA too. They ran magazine ads in the early years of Byte and Kilobaud. There were some articles in Radio-Electronics (of Mark-8 computer project fame) describing a Selectric interface. Arlen > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Oliver [SMTP:go@ao.com] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:35 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? > > Back in the days before "glass" consoles, computers often (if > they had them) used typewriter devices as console input and > output stations. Many minicomputers used Teletypes, but Control > Data used (believe it or not) IBM Selectric typewriters. > <snip> -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years

2
1
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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed > some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics > plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 > or so... Ouch! I've paid US$11.00 or so each (at Halted, in 1993), and didn't grumble too much because at that price it still beat the hassle of splitting a 50-wire flat cable to make it fit a solder-tail connector. -Frank McConnell

27 years

2
1
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Yet another freebie

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

More junk in the spring-cleaning frenzy here, to a good home: A Wyse50/350 keyboard, P/N: 840059-01 Aaron

27 years

1
0
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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

IDC termination s for a 3-row connector are mechanically problematic. They're probably needlessly/intolerably fragile. Fortunately, external ribbon cables are no longer tolerated here in the U.S. They have been replaced with Pacific-rim-manufactured shielded cables which work quite admirably and which can be built into the DD50 with just as much integrity as the 2-row connectors. Those guys on the SCSI-II committee must have been software weenies, having picked the teensy and fragile high-density cable connectors they chose. I'd say they're every bit as likely to break as the microscopic things used in the "SCSI-III" connectors which look like the ones used on several of my PCMCIA cards. Fortunately, I'm too cheap to buy these most modern and extremely expensive connectors. I've got about two dozen of the old "Blue-Ribbon" (used in office phone systems) connector-fitted cables most of which I've had for years, used to tow the car, etc, and I've never had reason to cuss them. I have seven of the "SCSI-II" connectors on five cables, of which all but one are adapters. Only one of the adapters works right, i.e. their strain relief actually relieves strain, as opposed to pulling out. Of course, with them, I always know which end has the problem. I've not used the one with the little connector at both ends. I doubt I could fix it if it broke, which it surely will . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:37 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >> >> It's odd that SUN, then, having declared the SCSI on the skids, would have >> been the ONE with the most sensible and least fragile connector on their >> external cable harnesses. If I had $1 for every time I've had a problem >> with external SCSI cable connectors, I could retire in luxury. I've NEVER >> had trouble with the D-types, in this case, the DD-50, breaking off >> contacts, etc. > >Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed >some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics >plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 >or so... > >I must admit they're (DD50s) a much nicer connector, though. > >-tony >

27 years

2
1
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Bringing up a CPM

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Still that doesn't explain the 7680 bytes in the file from >the site. I still don't know what to do. Well, 7680 bytes = 60 128-byte sectors, which is more than the first two tracks on an 8" floppy. I suspect that the "file on the site" is from an implementation where the boot track was double density or on something other than an 8" floppy. (30 256-byte sectors, 15 per track, maybe? Sounds like a 5.25" DD format.) According to my DR "CP/M 2 Alteration Guide", track 0 sector 1 is the cold start loader (bootstrap). Track 0 Sectors 2-17 are the CCP. Track 0 Sectors 18-26 and Track 1 Sectors 1-19 are the BDOS. And Track 1 Sectors 20-26 are the BIOS. This is for a plain-vanilla 8" SSSD installation, of course. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

2
1
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"default" DHV11 CSR?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) >I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not >seeing it. There is no one set CSR assigned to the first DHV11... it depends on what else is in your system. The lowest address a DHV can be configured for is 17760020. Subsequent ones increase by 20(8). The vector also depends on what else is in the system. Since the uVaxIII has the config command, you might want to try using that, and enter all the devices on your system, and it will provide you with what the correct configuration should be according to the configuration rules. Just for the heck of it, I checked the RT-11 SYSGEN procedure to see what it uses for a default for the first DH-type interface, and that is 17760440. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years

1
0
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MVax II FOR FREE

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

I am only relaying this message, please contact the poster. On 1999-05-27 bfarnam(a)skantech.net said: bf>I have an old MVax II (630QE Rack Cab, (2) RA-90, (1) TK-50, (1) bf>TS-05) that I need to move this weekend. I would like to find bf>someone who can put this hardware to good use, because come Tuesday, bf>it gets trashed. Do you know of anyone who would pick it up. It is bf>located in Greenville, North Carolina and I have UNLIMITED Licenses bf>for OpenVMS and DECNet in MY name that I will sign over. If bf>interested, or know someone that is, they can reach me via pager bf>during the day, as I don't check my e-mail that often at 888.511. bf>8830 or in the evening at 252.974.0162 bf>I thank you in advance for you time, bf>Brett A. Farnam bf>Washington, North Carolina -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ I'm Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://www.vaxarchive.org/ (primary) http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) http://www.coyote.org/mirrors/vaxarchive/ (mirror) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

27 years

1
0
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"default" DHV11 CSR?

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not seeing it. --Chuck

27 years

1
0
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"default" DHV11 CSR?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) >I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not >seeing it. All but the earliest KA650's have a built in SYSGEN CONFIG utility which you can check for such answers. Under VMS, this is how it's done: $ mcr sysgen SYSGEN> CONFIG DEVICE> dhv11 1 DEVICE> [control-Z] Device: DHV11 Name: TXA CSR: 760440* Vector: 300* Support: yes As a side note, SHOW DEV from the >>> console prompt won't list things like serial multiplexers anyway. I suspect, however, that you're having a NetBSD problem and not a hardware configuration problem, as NetBSD for the most part completely ignores issues involving "standard" CSR's and Vectors. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

1
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confidential info on old harddrives.

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 04:32 PM 5/26/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my >apologies. > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and >educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of >lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being >weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do >something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. > Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the >response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K >and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential >problem. > > >Colan > In my opinion you are doing the right thing in just formatting the HD. If too much noise is made about this problem the word will get around and people will destroy their discarded computers rather than let them get into the hands of collecters. In some cases users don't know how to scrub the hard drive, and in others the computer has gone down and they can't erase it without going to some expense. Possibly somebody (Sam?) could come up with a "Computer Collector's Code of Ethics" which would include erasing any confidential material on acquired computers. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

27 years

2
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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Please see comments below: Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 7:02 AM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >> > The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it >> > was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to >> > 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the >> >> Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available >> platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years >> back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a >> factor of three! >No, No No... > >The maxtor 2190 is 1224 Cylinders by 15 heads and whatever formatting for >the number of sectors. This lies within the capacity limit of 504 MB imposed by many older '486 motherboards. >the command structure for most MFM and RLL controllers only used >1024 of the possible 4096 (10 of the available 12 bits). It's an artifact >of the controller designs. Where do these 12 bits fit? The 10-bit limit was inherited from the WD1010 chip's register geometry. This was frequently a motherboard/BIOS-imposed restriction. If the Motherboard doesn't recognize drive types with more than 1024 cylinders, the controller won't either. Several controllers offered various ways around this, e.g. masquerading fewer heads up to the maximum of 16 and reducing the number of cylinders correspondingly, and, likewise, fiddling with the number of sectors so that it was up to the BIOS-compatible maximum of 63 whereas the drive only had 15 heads, again with a corresponding reduction in the number of cylinders. However, if the BIOS on the PC motherboard supports drives up to but not exceeding the 1024x16x63x512-byte configuration, then that's all it will do. >Physically you can go for up to 16 heads and 4096 cylinders in the st506 >interface spec'd drives. The problem was that more cylinders do not >enhance speed. It's better to pack more on a given cylinder as you can >access that data faster than moving heads across a lot of tracks. Please explain what you mean by this. I've not yet gotten feedback from my ex-girlfriend's son, currently chief eng'r at Maxtor, but I've seen no information which suggests that the 2190 drive actually had 4K cylinders. You must be referring to some geometry aliasing stunt performed by some controllers. I'm mystified. I can see no way a controller can circumvent the BIOS, which is the vehicle by means of which the OS communicates with the HDD at the lowest level. The only exception I've run into is the Lark Associates controller, which lies to the motherboard about what it attached and presents, say, my 8760 as two physical drives, of which one is at the maximal 504 MB capacity, while the remainder of the drive appears to be on a separate physical drive. >Please everyone prune of the unwated portions of the message. If I can do >it using pine across a sluggish telnet link during the day No one has an >excuse. > >Allison > >

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that <I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor <XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10* <after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets <another 30% or so of capacity. The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the higher bit packing, and EDSI with the higher data rates put more data on a square inch of media and make more sense than pushing the mechanics of the drive. <Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on t <surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and <2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. And they are small too! Allison

27 years

2
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confidential info on old harddrives.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> It's a foolish practice. Running Norton's diskwipe is a good thing but a FYI: disk wipe write a patternover the dat file to reduce it's recoverability. <wiping program (and *think* it is okay although not as good as doing a <wipedisk) is to overwrite the offending file with another larger one, i.e. Delete and format will pretty much clean the disk. The key thing is to not leave it out in the open so to speak. <drive, and then hit the platters with a bulk eraser. I have heard that it Then the disk is useless and you much as well hit it with a hammer as the positioner servo information is gone. <is possible to recover data from the HD even after doing a wipedisk by <removing the platters and then analyzing the platters (urban legend?) Yes that is true but, you're taking in a lab setting with sophisticated tools and knowledge. IE: CIA/fbi stuff. Allison

27 years

2
2
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VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Like Tim said, nont one member of LICA has a "pure" machine. Some part >was non stock and often the reason was price or availability. I can't say >how many Altair and IMSAIs with floppies from neither vendor were seen. Or, as I understand the rules, it would penalize someone who hooked a Model 33 Teletype to their Altair because MITS didn't make the Teletype. Yet the Teletype is the most singularly classic input/output peripheral of the era. And if you didn't have a Teletype, users generally had some surplus keyboard hooked to their S-100 box (heck, look at the very first issue of _BYTE_ which features "surplus keyboards" as the cover story!). Yet again, you get penalized in the judging for configuring your machine as it would have typically been configured by an actual user in that day. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

4
4
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Used DEC equipment for sale

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Anyone after PDP-11 gear? Check this out. -=-=- <break> -=-=- On Thu, 27 May 1999 02:33:09 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: "Kim Waggoner" <kaw(a)weatherbank.com> >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: Used DEC equipment for sale >>Lines: 11 >>Organization: WeatherBank, Inc. >>X-Priority: 3 >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 >>Message-ID: <F9233.310$f73.185(a)news.rdc1.tx.home.com> >>Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 02:33:09 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.4.97.165 >>X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)home.net >>X-Trace: news.rdc1.tx.home.com 927772389 24.4.97.165 (Wed, 26 May 1999 19:33:09 PDT) >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:33:09 PDT >>Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.qis.net.MISMATCH!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec:1139 >> >>We have migrated out of our DEC PDP-11 systems. >>If anyone is interested in purchasing our used DEC equipment, please E-mail >>dec(a)weatherbank.com or call Kim Waggoner at 405-359-0773. >> >>We have 3 Dyna-5 12 slot backplanes, 11/73's Mentec 11/73's (18mhz with 4MB cache). >>Emulex comm boards, SCSI and ESDI disks. MultiTech modems, KXJ-11 I/O processors ect.. >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I don't think they could be extended to 4K cylinders either. 1224 x 15 was a pretty common geometry. It even appeared in some BIOS drive tables. The 4380E was built like that wasn't it? Most manufacturers had an ST-506 interfaced drive with the same geometry as their ESDI drives so they had someplace to put the platters/HDA's which didn't handle the servo well enough. One surface was dedicated for servo, IIRC. The 4380 was about 1224x15x35 or 36 (take your pick, and set the jumper). The WD1007 ESDI controllers would make that look like 636x16x63 or some such. You didn't have to sacrifice capacity in order to use that. It was their RLL and MFM controllers that couldn't translate track/sector geometries. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 10:57 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >On Wed, 26 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > >> <Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that >> <I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor >> <XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10* >> <after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets >> <another 30% or so of capacity. >> >> The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it >> was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to >> 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the > >Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available >platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years >back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a >factor of three! > - don > >> higher bit packing, and EDSI with the higher data rates put more data on >> a square inch of media and make more sense than pushing the mechanics of >> the drive. >> >> <Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on t >> <surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and >> <2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. >> >> And they are small too! >> >> Allison >> >> > >

27 years

1
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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . I'd really never considered using an SMD <=>SCSI bridge. I used to have a CDC LARK drive on my CP/M system because I've always loved removable media. That was back when my elder son wasn't tall enough to get on the table, though. Now I use SCSI drives in trays. All of them are 1GB 3.5" drives. The frames are set to hold the device ID, so the drives are, by the grace of God, hot-swappable. Those little frame/tray combo's cost $15! It's the best $15 I've spent, for sure! I was aware of the ESDI drives, having used a number, and having them around the house as doorstops, etc. The most interesting ones are the 380 MB size, which, in both MINISCRIBE and MAXTOR incarnations, allow their converson >from ESDI to SCSI with the swap of a single board. Complete software packages, e.g. FPGA/CPLD support software from conceptualization to programming tools want more than that, particularly if you want schematic entry software with it. I find 1GB about right. Libraries can be left on the server unless they need to travel to a client's site. I fought quite a bit with the MAXTOR 1140's. They just didn't work reliably with RLL/ERLL encoding, though they were rock solid when used with MFM. I don't know why this was . . . I bought two of these babies about ten years ago for use with a PERSTOR (remember them?) only to find that the controller and drives didn't like each other. My system drives ( also removable ) are EIDE models. I saw 10.5 GB drives for $199 (new) at Costco this morning. I'm sure one can do better, but that certainly would discourage me from paying $150 for used SCSI drives. I guess I am just too frugal . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >>I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly >>interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge >>controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI >>drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be >>interesting. > >Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that >I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor >XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10**6) >after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets >another 30% or so of capacity. > >Hitachi ESDI drives are available up to 1.5Gbytes or so, and work well on >Emulex ESDI<->SCSI controller. > >All the above was assuming you meant size=capacity. If you meant >size=cubic feet or pounds, I'm sure you could put a 14" CDC SMD drive >on the other side of a SMD<->SCSI controller. > >Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on the >surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and >2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

2
1
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Another Univac

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Today I got back to the other Univac bit, the one that got towed away by somebody else while I was slobbering all over the 9200. This is the one that is going to sacrifice some parts to keep another Univac running. But the scrapper now wants some actual cash for it, instead of just a few bucks that he hinted at before. Guess he realized that it still has about the same scrap value even after he pulls out those few parts... Anyway, I had the chance to look at it closely, and I _still_ don't know what it is. I did take notes, and have posted them on a web page. But (#@!$%) I forgot to bring the camera, so I have no pics to show. Here is the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/whatisit.html Please take a glance at that, and if you can help ID this thing, let me know. There is also the possibility that it could be up for grabs, since I already have more Univac than I know what to do with. I'll probably want it for myself if it is somehow needed by the 9200. Otherwise, it will be available to anyone who will cover the costs of purchase, storage, shipping, etc. If nobody claims it, it might get melted down as soon as one week from today. Bill.

27 years

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I work for a small Lawn & Garden sales/repair shop. We keep all the service/sales/inventory records on a TRS-80 Model 3 that we picked up at a flea market for $15 The only "upgrade" is that it now has IBM 360k FH floppy drives, because the doors on the originals were broken off. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: ss(a)allegro.com <ss(a)allegro.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Interesting thing on slashdot I forwarded the contest note to a friend who still uses his Altair 8800 to burn ROMs for his company! (He assembled the Altair when it was new) He's planning on entering, but will decline if he wins...because he doesn't want to give up his machine! Stan

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface

by edick＠idcomm.com

You can establish which modulation technique was used by looking at the crystal. If it's a harmonic of 5 MHz, it's MFM, if it's a harmonic of 7.5 MHz, it's probably RLL. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:55 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface >> <OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL >> <devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of > >Who wants/needs?: >SMS OMTI 7100 REV C has 50 pin dual row header (SCSI?), power >connector, 34 pin dual row header with two 20 pin (MFM? RLL? ESDI? - who >knows which it is?) EPROM is labelled 1002286-A > > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 >

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if > they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of > a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older Sun did this too. It wasn't 'til SunOS 4.0 that the SCSI-disk driver would actually talk to SCSI disks. Before that, it wanted to talk to an Adaptec ACB4000 or an Emulex MD21 (for ESDI disks). I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the drives had something to do with it; I remember Amiga folks scheming to use ACB4000 boards with their SCSI interfaces because it was cheaper than buying a SCSI disk, and I've opened a few Mac SCSI hard disk boxes to find the same sort of thing inside. -Frank McConnell

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly The 4070 and a maxtor2190 will get you near 200mb. I also have a couple of boxes (disk, powersupply and scsi bridge controller) that I use for VIsual1050s that are the adaptec non RLL board. Those also run quantum d540s (31mb). For a lot of small stuff the Quantum d540 is a reliable st506 interface MFM drive, it runs RLL encoding well and is fast. Besides, I have a big bunch of them so if a box doesn't use all 512 cylinders or 8 heads not great feeling of loss. <interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge <controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI <drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be there are a few EDSI bridges that would easily do serious space. Of course you can just stuff any scsi DISK into a box and be done and skip the bridge board. the latter is har not to do when for 200$ you can get a couple of GB of narrow ultra SCSI and box for maybe 19-29$. I do that with a bunch of DEC RZ56s (680mb 5.25" full height scsi) I have. Allison

27 years

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what is this? BASIS108

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

some guy locally has one for sale. I thought it was a foreign-made apple compatible but not sure. can anyone clarify? system disks are manuals are included with the machine, i've been told. I hope it's worth $20 i'm willing to offer the guy for it.

27 years

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Semi-Final Northstar Horizon Update

by mranalog＠home.com

Anthony Clifton said: > On a disk that Doug Coward sent me, which doesn't boot but can be read > once I boot of one of the disks sent to me by Don Maslin, Sorry, I'm just back from a vacation trip and I'm still not back at work yet, so I'm doing this from memory. It been at least a year since I sent that disk, but I seem to remember that I sent you an email after I sent the disk saying something like "Oops, by the way, by mistake the NSDOS disk I sent you is a special version compiled to load at 0100 hex not the normal 2000 hex." Look at the label, if this is the case it should say North Star DOS (version something) AT 100. So (if this is the case) you would need RAM starting from 0000, and BASIC on this disk would expect to find the DOS I/O vectors starting from 0100 hex, but the BASIC programs would work with the normal version of DOS. Without being able to search through my old email, because I'm not at work, thats how I remember it. Sorry, I just seems to have gotten in a hurry and sent the wrong DOS on the disk without thinking. I run CP/M also so I just naturally start RAM at 0000. I hope I'm not thinking of someone else I sent NSDOS to. I'm glad you're having so much success. --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/ and the new Analog Computer Museum and history Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 27, 0:13, Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed > some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics > plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 > or so... > > I must admit they're (DD50s) a much nicer connector, though. You can get Amphenol IDC ones that take *standard* ribbon cable (not the delicate half-pitch stuff) from Videk, for about a fiver. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL <devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of And Xybec. <Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with <essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one <and how it was implemented. I have the following: Adaptec 4070 SCSI to RLL, use that with a quantum D540. Xybec 14xx in a CP/M system (SB180, with SCSI adaptor) (miniscibe 3.5"mfm) DEC TK50Z SCSI to DEC TK50 DLT tape on a Microvax VIA CMD200 scsi card. All work with minimal setup. Allison

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: > Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with > essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one > and how it was implemented. Um, yeah. I've had several of the Emulex MD21s in service on up to 300MB drives. They worked. Especially after we got the problem child to put his drive cabinet on his desk instead of on the floor. Here's another question for Chuck: if it was purely an economic decision, why did Sun's sd driver require the ACB4000 or MD21? I once tried to get my 2/120 w/SunOS 3.5 to talk to a SCSI disk. No go. So I tried again, with a similar disk (but ESDI) behind an MD21, and it worked just fine. -Frank McConnell

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly >interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge >controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI >drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be >interesting. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10**6) after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets another 30% or so of capacity. Hitachi ESDI drives are available up to 1.5Gbytes or so, and work well on Emulex ESDI<->SCSI controller. All the above was assuming you meant size=capacity. If you meant size=cubic feet or pounds, I'm sure you could put a 14" CDC SMD drive on the other side of a SMD<->SCSI controller. Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on the surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and 2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be interesting. Nevertheless, it's a pregnant vehicle for modularity in system functionality. (almost sounds like gov-speak, doesn't it?) The idea is that I want to house software packages in boxes of their own so they can be run wherever there's a spot open. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) ><OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL ><devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of > >And Xybec. > ><Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with ><essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one ><and how it was implemented. > >I have the following: > > Adaptec 4070 SCSI to RLL, use that with a quantum D540. > Xybec 14xx in a CP/M system (SB180, with SCSI adaptor) (miniscibe 3.5"mfm) > DEC TK50Z SCSI to DEC TK50 DLT tape on a Microvax VIA CMD200 scsi card. > >All work with minimal setup. > > >Allison >

27 years

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by zmerch＠30below.com

Rumor has it that Aaron Christopher Finney may have mentioned these words: >For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC >still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer >equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show >proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... Actually, I was first thinking of someone who still runs his accounting business primarily on Tandy Color Computers (1's and 2's - tho he might have a 3 floating around)... However, I won't; here's why: From what it looks like on the web page, you have to donate the old computer setup back to Dell so they can give it to a museum. If the person I had in mind actually won, he'd kill me - he doesn't want to upgrade. Pentium Xeon servers won't print the checks any faster >from a daisy-wheel printer any faster than a CoCo can!!! The other downfall to this is if someone was still using 3-4 Altairs for their business setup, with the speculation over these machines the company might actually take a loss thru Dell than selling the machines via auction. Think about it. Disgusting, ain't it? Just a thought, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

27 years

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68020 vs 68EC020

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

Pete Turnbull wrote: >> > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? >> >> I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the >> functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). > >I'm not sure of the other details, but "EC" = "Embedded Control", as you >say. According to my Motorola cribsheet, it's a 68020 with only 24-bit >addressing, without the dynamic bus sizing, ands restricted speed range. > It does have the co-pro interface, though, and probably most if not all of >the instruction set (the crib sheet doesn't get very detailed). Yup. In real terms the choice of EC by Commodore restricted the standard A1200 to just 10Mb fast RAM. This can be overcome with an accelerator that plugs into the trapdoor. On a slightly related note, a friend of mine in the US has found that his washer machine contains a 020 processor. Those things sure get around. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star"

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > The HD controller was 8x300, teh floppy was on the main board and relie <> <> I thought it was a Western Digital chipset, but I can't find a board to <> check at the moment. < <I just looked at one of mine and the major chip is a WD1010AL-00. I was going by the proto (likely) that I have that does have 8x300 like the DECMATE and a few of the other DEC systems. I thought it went WD as well but the board I have was scrounged from a system in the mill back in the crazy days. Allison

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> All rainbows had both that was the base configuration. The later B and B < <Sure. I was commenting about Tim's comment of a dedicated Z-80 for the <FDC. AFAIK there isn't. There is a Z80, but it can run user programs. The z80 when not running user programs is dedicated to floppy IO. When it is running CPM80 code it's still servicing the Floppy. <The colour graphics card was pretty nice as well. It's got a 7220 <graphics copro on it... I know... I was at NEC when we sold it to DEC. we were trying to get them to use the 765 floppy but the alreay had to many WD chips. Allison

27 years

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC <still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer <equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show <proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... I gotta go collect... I'm running a 286 for an oven control system and also a XT turbo clone for a measurement test and logging system. Being ISO 9001, PMA, and FM those system are well documented (and have to be eco'd if a part is replaced!). Allison

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's odd that SUN, then, having declared the SCSI on the skids, would have been the ONE with the most sensible and least fragile connector on their external cable harnesses. If I had $1 for every time I've had a problem with external SCSI cable connectors, I could retire in luxury. I've NEVER had trouble with the D-types, in this case, the DD-50, breaking off contacts, etc. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:13 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >At 02:51 PM 5/26/99 -0700, Frank wrote: >>Sun did this too. [scsi to MFM] ... >>I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the >>SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block >>remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the >>drives had something to do with it; > >Cost has more to do with it than bad blocks, the 4.1BSD disk driver knew >how to remap bad blocks but with Adaptec and Emulex solutions you could put >_two_ cheap drives behind a SCSI interface (logical unit 0 and 1) and when >you did that the costs were significantly less for the scsi+ESDI solution. >Of course Sun was a huge proponent of IPI, claiming it would wipe SCSI off >the planet. > >--Chuck > >

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:21 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL >devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of >these bridge controllers as well, providing a configuration utility for use >with their SCSI board. I don't know how well they worked, but I imagine >they had "little" problems with them as did nearly everyone else. > >Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with OOPS! . . . er . . . that's BRIDGE controller . . . <sorry!> >essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one >and how it was implemented. > >Dick

27 years

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of these bridge controllers as well, providing a configuration utility for use with their SCSI board. I don't know how well they worked, but I imagine they had "little" problems with them as did nearly everyone else. Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one and how it was implemented. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if >> they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of >> a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older > >Sun did this too. It wasn't 'til SunOS 4.0 that the SCSI-disk driver >would actually talk to SCSI disks. Before that, it wanted to talk to >an Adaptec ACB4000 or an Emulex MD21 (for ESDI disks). > >I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the >SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block >remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the >drives had something to do with it; I remember Amiga folks scheming to >use ACB4000 boards with their SCSI interfaces because it was cheaper >than buying a SCSI disk, and I've opened a few Mac SCSI hard disk >boxes to find the same sort of thing inside. > >-Frank McConnell >

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<All my 'bows have 2 processors. An 8088 and a Z80. The Z80 runs the VT100 <emulation from ROM, etc, _but_ it's also possible to run user programs on <it (CP/M on a rainbow will run CP/M80 or CP/M86 programs). All rainbows had both that was the base configuration. The later B and B+ versions were allabout adding hard disk and hard disk booting, IE firmware. IT did run CPM80/86, that was the base OS and the system was set uyp so that you could run z80 or 8088 code. in z80 mode the 8088 was idle. In the 8088 mode the z80 was doing IO processing. Obviously the 8088 mode hard far more performnce than many turbo PCs as the z80 is a pretty good io processor. <I don't recall there being any processors on the disk daughterboard (and <I think I'd remember that), unlike, say, the Pro where there's a <microcontroller between the system bus and the FDC chip. The HD controller was 8x300, teh floppy was on the main board and relied on the z80. Formatting was possible on all models. Only that the early OS packages didn't include the formatter(Pournelle got a first off the line). For a long while Rainbows were popular for formatting rx50s. That and people that had them really liked them. Allison

27 years

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confidential info on old harddrives.

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:39 PM, Chuck McManis [SMTP:cmcmanis@mcmanis.com] wrote: > So what's the problem? Any responsible adult would simply delete/erase the > personal data and move on. Yep... That's what I do. Besides, I've never seen any info that was any particular interest to me. I'll admit, I don't generally erase other peoples source code without inspecting it. I find it invaluable when trying to learn a new OS or the specifics of a programming language. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years

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confidential info on old harddrives.

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

So what's the problem? Any responsible adult would simply delete/erase the personal data and move on. Anyone who would consider invading someones privacy by riffling through their old data files is simply rude and uncivilized. When someone gives me a computer I offer to copy off any data onto an archive disk for them, but I then delete it after doing so. I'm sure that lawyers are the worst because they know that if you did anything with the information or even made it public knowledge that you had the information they would successfully sue you for everything you own. --Chuck At 04:32 PM 5/26/99 -0400, Colan wrote: > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >be the worst.

27 years

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FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards

by edick＠idcomm.com

It would be interesting to know more about these cards. Is there a picture or something to specify the configuration of the boards? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 9:28 AM Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards >Hi, folks, > > I just posted a pair of unused MultiBus wire-wrap prototyping boards on >Haggle (I can't stand Ebay) in the 'Antique Computers' section. I've >started them off at $5.00 each, and I figure that, if anyone, at least some >of you would be interested. ;-) > > I also inserted a proviso in the description that I won't sell these to a >gold scrapper even if they're the high bid. I want these beauties to go to >someone who can actually use them in a project. > > If you want to have a look (sorry I couldn't arrange a picture): > > http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202018178 > > Enjoy! > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years

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Misc manuals available

by svs＠ropnet.ru

G'day, Are the following documents of value to listmembers? I could scan them, if so. I will gladly accept scan(s) of certain DEC manual(s) in return. - Control Data 405 card reader, mod D Supplemental Manual, Pub No. 49750900 (Logic Diagrams, Logic Wiring, Logic Chassis, Logic Location) - iSBC 80/30 Single Board Computer Hardware Reference Manual, (c) Intel 1978. - iSBC 501 Direct Memory Access Controller H.R.M., (c) Intel 1976. - iSBC 544 Intelligent Communications Controller H.R.M., (c) Intel 1978. - Univac Series 70: VMOS Executive Program Interface Document No. 77031000, Revision 11, Revision date: 23 August 1972. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru

27 years

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Unibus cards availiable

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>While visiting the scrapper that bought much of my auction I had him set >aside 4 Unibus cards that I thought the list would be interested in. I >thought they were unusual and old. > >The numbers are G235, G232 (printed with a rubber stamp) and two G114s. There >is some indication that they deal with X,Y positioning. They are 6 wide >Unibus. These are all "XY" drivers for various core planes. Most likely from 11/70 core boxes, though they were also used in other systems. They aren't actually Unibus, though they do plug into hex-height slots. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There are dozens of other machines like that. The Xerox Daybreak I have <here has a similar setup. The TRS-80 Model 4 I have has a hard disk box <containing a WD controller card and an ST506 hard disk. That one would be <easier to modify to use a different disk, but still not trivial. the problem is often more than just having a formatter program or even the capability. Many systems the OS may have built in limitations on what drives may be used. CPM typically the bios is set up for only one trivel geometry and changing it is a assembly language project if your lucky enough to have sources. Allison

27 years

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Unibus cards availiable

by Innfogra＠aol.com

While visiting the scrapper that bought much of my auction I had him set aside 4 Unibus cards that I thought the list would be interested in. I thought they were unusual and old. The numbers are G235, G232 (printed with a rubber stamp) and two G114s. There is some indication that they deal with X,Y positioning. They are 6 wide Unibus. If anyone is interested the owner would sell reasonably but would want more than scrap value. Paxton PS I also pulled out two Compaq Intelligent Drive Array-2 cards and an FDDI card, all for EISA bus. Does anyone know of a Compaq list that I could post them on.

27 years

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FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/26/99 8:36:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: > I like that, but am curious as to how you intend to identify a scrapper. It is easy. Sell the card for more than it's scrap value. In this case it is about a penny a pin plus the value of the card's fingers (less than 50 cents, more than a quarter). Paxton

27 years

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FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, folks, I just posted a pair of unused MultiBus wire-wrap prototyping boards on Haggle (I can't stand Ebay) in the 'Antique Computers' section. I've started them off at $5.00 each, and I figure that, if anyone, at least some of you would be interested. ;-) I also inserted a proviso in the description that I won't sell these to a gold scrapper even if they're the high bid. I want these beauties to go to someone who can actually use them in a project. If you want to have a look (sorry I couldn't arrange a picture): http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202018178 Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

I grabbed the following from slashdot: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990526/tx_dell_co_2.html For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... Aaron

27 years

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Shipping protocol

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: I have to ship a rather distressed pdp-8a cardcage across the country. Do you think I should ship the cards separately, or the entire thing as a unit? The whole thing weighs 60#, btw. Thanks Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 25, 19:23, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > > > Getting the right > > > spare drive for one of those can really drive you insane. > > > > How do you think I got to be like this? :-) > > Probably in a similar, but not quite indentical way to me.... Not quite > identical, because AFAIK you're not a workstation collector... Not primarily -- I have the usual Apples, Beebs, PETs, Atom, ZX81, Sorcerer -- and I've just found a Nascom-1 :-) -- and PDP-11s, but I also have two SGI Indigos, an Indy, a VS3000, a couple of Arcs, a microVAX-II, a U-Micro 68000, a Sage-II, a DecMate. I'm not sure which of those count as workstations, though :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<common-ish machines that _can_ do the formatting. 8" 'RX01' floppies can <be formatted in most soft-sector 8" CP/M machines (and a PERQ will not <only do the format, it'll even stick an 'RT11' directory on the disk). Or if the cpm machine is running the RT11 package (a C program) it could set a directory and read/write the disk as well! Still use that one here! <You say 'some Rainbows'. I thought this was just a software <consideration, and that the hardware of all 'bows was capable of <formatting blank disks. Since the 'bow disk controller is just a WD179x <chip (IIRC) on one of the micro's buses, it seems hard to figure out a <way to stop it from formatting, although anything is possible. The rainbow needed a formatter program to do it. It was generally available. However DEC used the 1793 in a lot of systems (DECMATE, PRO3xx, and a few other but hid it behind a 8051 microcontroller that didn't have a format routine in the internal rom. Reason, the 1793 needs to be fed every byte to write to the disk including gaps and marks. DEC hardware that can format floppies: Vt180 RX180 format. PDT-11/150 RX01 format Rainbows (RX50) RQDXn (in either a Qbus MicroVAX or PDP-11) with software (rx50, rx33, Rx23, rx24, and hard disks) VS2000 (rx50, rx33, hard disks) RX02 can reformat from RX01 (SSSD to SSDD and back). It just cant do the initial format. There maybe other but those are most common. Of the non DEC hardware that can do 8" formatting CCS2xxx systems (S100/cpm) (both 8 and 5.25) Compupro S100 (various cpus) (both 8 and 5.25) SDS " " Teltek " " Multibus with nonINTEL DD controllers (NEC BP2190 8", 5.25 or 3.5) Xerox820 SB180 (8, 5.25, 3.5) Ampro (8"SD, 5.25, 3.5) and the list goes on..... Allison

27 years

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Shipping protocol

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com wrote: > Guys: > > I have to ship a rather distressed pdp-8a > cardcage across the country. Do you think > I should ship the cards separately, or > the entire thing as a unit? If I were receiving it, I'd prefer to have the cards bagged in static bags and bubble-wrap and shipped seperately. Since that may compromise the structural integrity of a "distressed" cage, see about finding a cardboard box that fits somewhat snugly inside the empty cage, and pack the cage in a box with at least 4" of space on all sides (to be filled with peanuts and the like). You might consider shipping the PSU in its own box, but that's not essential. It will reduce the inertia of the cage enough that even distressed, an empty cage doesn't weigh enough to get badly damaged if the container gets slammed around. Remember this: if you wouldn't throw the box out of a car moving at 30mph, don't ship the box - UPS has a conveyer belt that is 4' off the ground, moving at 30mph. Stuff falls off every day. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

27 years

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(fwd) Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts.

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Near Red Bank, New Jersey, USA? Want a 3B1 with spare parts? Contact dwfraser(a)lucent.com. (As seen in comp.sys.3b1.) -Frank McConnell ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Wed May 26 08:03:29 1999 From: Douglas Fraser <dwfraser(a)lucent.com> Subject: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Topics: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Re: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:46:57 -0400 From: Douglas Fraser <dwfraser(a)lucent.com> Subject: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Message-ID: <37496661.FCE6F4DD(a)lucent.com> Well, child #2 has arrived and my free time factor has gone to ZERO! The one working 3B1 and all the spare parts must go. I will not box and ship, you have to pick it up. Red Bank, NJ. Send me email. Details One working 3B1, with memory expansion boards. Boots and runs. 3.51 on floppys that haven't been read in two years. Don't know if they still work. This is an OLD system board. The ASICs are implemented in medium scale logic on a mezzanine. It does work. Spares. Enough to create two more entire systems except for the disk drives. Currently disassembled. Misc. documentation including some copies of schematics. All power supplies, keyboards, mice, displays are good. Must take ALL. I am not interested in selling parts in dribs and drabs. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:24:33 -0400 From: Douglas Fraser <dwfraser(a)lucent.com> Subject: Re: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Message-ID: <374BF611.C6873238(a)lucent.com> References: <37496661.FCE6F4DD(a)lucent.com> Next week, this whole thing goes out in the trash. It will have a little note attached to it that says "Works! Boots UNIX! No password!" And a box that says "Documentation! Spare Parts!" Up until then, you can reserve it for yourself by sending me email. Bye. ------------------------------ End of forward718K3y Digest *************************** ------- End of forwarded message -------

27 years

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source for foam filter material

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Does anyone know where I might be able to buy some thin black foam filter material, to replace the stuiff that was used on my Teral computers? These systems have a large fan that draws air into the computer, and the intake air goes through this very thin filter, in order to capture large particles such as lint. After 22+ years, that foam is nothing more than dust. I would need something almost 5 inches wide, that i could then trim to the proper shape. -Lawrence LeMay

27 years

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AIM 65 question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference there? Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the commands to operate them? Joe

27 years

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MicroVAX/station 2000 stuff

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>The resulting three disks will boot up the system and bring up Backup 5.5, >or thereabouts. But when I undertake to do a backup/image/verify to >floppy, I get the error message: > >"%BACKUP-F-CLUSTER, unsuitable cluster factor for DUA2:" > >Since I formatted the disks using T 70 I would assume that they are to >MicroVAX/VMS standard. How do I get around this roadblock? You formatted the floppies, but you didn't initialize them. Try appending a /INITIALIZE onto your backup command. >Incidentally, Tim, I do not intend to really use floppies for backup. I >have a TK50Z. But, if I can get a better understanding of how they may be >used, they may prove useful in getting software into the little bugger. If you intend to use them for purposes other than image backup, you ought to try INITing them and MOUNTing them as regular (Files-11) volumes. Doing a HELP INIT EXAMPLES or HELP MOUNT EXAMPLES will prove educational. Or - very handy for interchange purposes with micros that have the ability to read/write RT-11 RX50's and RX33's - you can use EXCHANGE to read and write RT-11 volumes. Go into EXCHANGE and type HELP for more info on this. There are also some freeware tools for reading and writing MS-DOS floppies from VMS; check out ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/mgpcx.zip if this sounds useful. There's loads of other VMS freeware available; just check the comp.os.vms FAQ for starters. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

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VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE!

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hello all. This year at the VCF we're opening up the exhibition, and changing it into a computer faire. Want to show off your prized vintage computer artifact? What better way than to exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival! What's more, your exhibit can win you a ribbon in any of 11 different categories, and the best exhibit will walk away with the coveted Best of Show award and some fabulous prizes! What should you exhibit? Your best looking, most interesting, most complete, most well researched vintage computer artifact. Read the full rules below for information on what judging will entail. The ambition of this competition is to advance the hobby of collecting, preserving and documenting vintage computers, and you'll see that reflected in the competition rules. Have questions? Please e-mail me <sellam(a)vintage.org> or post your question to the list if you think it is applicable to the general audience. You have more than four months to prepare your winning exhibit, so don't procrastinate. Get going! VCF 3.0 is being held October 2nd and 3rd at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. VCF 3.0 Computer Faire Rules ============================ 1) Each entrant shall enter no more than 2 entries for one class and no more than 4 entries combined in all classes for competiton. Computers entered for display only are not eligible for awards and their inclusion in the exhibit is at the discretion of the organizer. Each entrant shall pre-register their exhibit and pay a $10 registration fee due by September 17, 1999. Entrants failing to submit their registration and fee will not be eligible to participate in the Faire, however exceptions may be made for individual circumstances. 2) Each competitor's entry shall be entered in only one of the following classes: a) Home-brew, kit, or educational computer - Any vintage b) Manufactured microcomputer - Pre 1981 c) Manufactured microcomputer - Post 1981 d) Mini-computer or larger system - Any vintage e) Other 3) In each class, Best of Class, 2nd of Class, and 3rd of Class prizes will be awarded. If less than three entries are present in a class, the awards are at the discretion of the judges. 4) Each competiton entry, regardless of it having received any other award is eligible to compete for any of the following special awards: Best Presentation Awards a) Best Presentation Category - Display b) Best Presentation Category - Research c) Best Presentation Category - Completeness d) Best Presentation Category - Creative Integration with Contemporary Technology Best Preservation Awards a) Best Preservation Category - Restoration b) Best Preservation Category - Recreation c) Best Preservation Category - Simulation d) Best Preservation Category - Original Condition e) Best Preservation Category - Obscurity Best Technology Awards a) Best Technology Category - Analog b) Best Technology Category - Non-Electronic People's Choice Award 5) Each competitor will be given a date and time at which a panel of judges will examine the entry. The examination is limited to no more than 10 minutes. The entrant or an authorized representative must be present at the time given. If nobody is present, the judges will notify the entrant of a substitute time at which they will return. If nobody is present at that point in time, the entry is disqualified. 6) Only class winners or special award winners are eligible for the Best of Show award. Each winner will be given a new time to make their computer available for a repeated inspection for the Best of Show award. 7) The panel of judges will consist of three individuals. The judging will take place as a joint activity between the the judges. Any judging decision will have to have at least a two thirds majority. 8) Each computer will start judging by having a perfect score of 30 points, five points each in the following catagories. The judges will then subtract points in each catagory according to their judging guidelines of which examples are given below. - Appearance and Condition - Authenticity - System Completeness - Functionality - Documentation - Software a) Appearance and Condition The judges can deduct points for any flaw in appearance and condition. Lack of functionality or non-original parts do not influence the score in this catagory unless it changes the appearance of the computer. b) Originality and Authenticity The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this category. Any consumables do not have to be authentic. Any item that has questionable authenticity or originalty needs to have supporting documentation. c) System Completeness The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is incomplete. A complete computer is one that includes the peripherals that were originally used on the computer or typical peripherals that would have been used with the computer if applicable. d) Functionality The judges can deduct points for any lack of functionality of the complete computer as presented. This includes any aspect of hardware or software. Original malfunction of the computer does not lead to point deduction. A non-operational main processor will result in zero points in this category. e) Documentation The judges can deduct points for incomplete, missing, or poor condition documentation. Any documentation that was originally delivered with the computer or otherwise obtained is being judged. Any documentation relating to the design, construction, manufacture, or delivery of the computer can be included. Third party documentation is acceptable if no original documentation is known to exist. Third party documentation can be beneficial if they go beyond the standard documentation of the computer. Reprints or later editions of documentation will result in point deduction. Documentation of research conducted pertinent to the entry will be considered. f) Software The judges can deduct points for the lack of software for the computer, if applicable. In order to score any points, the essential software to operate the computer is required to be functional. Any software that has been developed for the computer either at the time of computer development or at any later point will be considered, as will be supporting documentation. The software does not have to be run from the original media. Original media will be beneficial though and can be asked to be demonstrated. 9) The judges will not operate the entry. The person exhibiting the computer will be asked to start the computer, demonstrate the functionality, the available software, and to show the documentation. Any reasonable request by the judges to demonstrate operation has to be fulfilled by the person showing the computer. 10) The judges will ask the person showing the computer to open or disassemble the computer for inspection of major components within reasonable limits. 11) If for any reason the person showing the entry can not fulfill a request of a judge due to a malfunction or any lack of software, documentation, or other, the entrant will be given an opportunity to interrupt the inspection once and postpone completion to a later point in time during the judging period. 12) At the end of the event at an announced place and time, the awards will be given to the entrant or a representative. If the prize recipient cannot receive the award in person, all shipping and handling charges will have to be covered by the entrant. Should a person not be present to claim the prize, the awards shall be held for claim by the organizer for no later than November 1, 1999. After that date the prize will be withheld and will not be re-awarded. Any questions or comments? Please send them to sellam(a)vintage.org or post them to the list if they are universally applicable. I hope to see lots of people participate in this year's Computer Faire!! Remember, this is your chance to show off that favorite part of your computer collection to all your friends and colleagues. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/20/99]

27 years

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68020 vs 68EC020

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 25, 19:42, Paul Thompson wrote: > Subject: Re: 68020 vs 68EC020 > OK, my curiousity is piqued. > > What is the HC in MC68HC000 chips? The one I have is on a DEC RF31 > disk drive controller. HCMOS process; "completely pin and timing compatible with MC68000, with 1/10th the power dissipation" of the NMOS versions. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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Canon Cat experts?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Is there anyone who knows anything about Canon Cats? Specifically, how to repair them? Or, anyone who has a working one? I got an e-mail from a writer in SoCal who has been using one for twelve years to do all his writing. It was recently damaged in a brownout, and he's "having a bad time of it without the use of my CAT." Most importantly, he needs to get his data off the disks, but I gather he'd also like to continue using it. Any thoughts? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 24, 18:34, Tony Duell wrote: > Old _working_ ST506 hard disks, however small in capacity should be kept > IMHO. They may be useless in PCs, but there are plenty of machines that > can use such drives but can't use IDE/SCSI/whatever. And it's getting > ever harder to get working ST506 drives. Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be particularly hard to come by around here. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive

by arfonrg＠texas.net

I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but desktop huge)! Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a newer HD to this machine? Arfon ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Oh, hard cards. I was envisioning separate drives. Were there any of <these? Yes. The hard cards were made up of seperate drives but were sold standalone too. For most the card/drive combo made sense as early one most were upgrading from floppy only to adding a hard drive and not all of those systems had enough drive bays. Allison

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Of course, there are also machines with floppy drive systems that cannot d <a low-level format. The most classic 8" floppy drive systems (specifically <the IBM 3740) can't format floppies, for example. There are also 5.25" Most of the S100 and other 8" systems could but the DEC and IBM systems didn't as was the case for some of the systems like AES data. <floppy drive systems that can't format - for example, the RX50 on a DEC <Q-bus or Unibus controller. (On some Rainbows, it is possible to low-leve <format RX50 media directly.) Rx50 format can be fomatted by any system (usually s100, or cpm based) with a WD 179x or later controller as it is a slightly bastard format that only that chip can do. Others like the older intel MDS800/200 systems with the DD drives (m^2FM) could format but nothing else could read that format. This ignores the system that used a standard LLformat but had a odd file structure so data interchange was impossible. Allison

27 years

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AIM 65 question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< That's an interesting question! I wonder what the difference in the <software is? I don't think I've ever heard of a CMOS AIM 65. The BASIC <comes up as ver 1.1. I didn't see a version on the assembler. The ICs <containing the assembler and BASIC don't have any special markings. They'r <PN is the same as the PN of the two standard ROMs except one digit is <different. Same here. The AIM was out of production before the CMOS process was in production as I remember... back then CMOS was stll expensive too, less incentive to use it in the AIM. Allison

27 years

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DatEXT CD-ROM questions

by roblwill＠usaor.net

A CD-ROM. It tells about HyperGuide, and that it can either be installed on the HD (taking up 12 MB), or it can be run from the CD-ROM. It also has software much as Music Box, which is a primitive form of Windows CD Player. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 3:48 PM Subject: Re: DatEXT CD-ROM questions >On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >>It's a Tandy MPC System software CD - Came with an OLD Sensation. > >Hmm...does the Windows setup program expect floppies or a CD-ROM? > >--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > >

27 years

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68020 vs 68EC020

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 25, 21:47, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: 68020 vs 68EC020 > > > > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? > > I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the > functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). I'm not sure of the other details, but "EC" = "Embedded Control", as you say. According to my Motorola cribsheet, it's a 68020 with only 24-bit addressing, without the dynamic bus sizing, ands restricted speed range. It does have the co-pro interface, though, and probably most if not all of the instruction set (the crib sheet doesn't get very detailed). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 25, 23:13, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Max Eskin wrote: > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? > > > Yep, They where put on a frame that included the MFM-controller (or RLL > for that matter). This frame was put into a full length IBM-PC slot. > > They were sold as "Hardcards with usually 20MB (MFM) OR 30MB (RLL) > capacity. Only one of the 3.5" drives I've had was sold as, or for, hardcards -- they were much more commonly sold just as hard drives. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Q-bus or Unibus controller. (On some Rainbows, it is possible to low-level >> format RX50 media directly.) >You say 'some Rainbows'. I thought this was just a software >consideration, and that the hardware of all 'bows was capable of >formatting blank disks. Since the 'bow disk controller is just a WD179x >chip (IIRC) on one of the micro's buses, it seems hard to figure out a >way to stop it from formatting, although anything is possible. On a Rainbow, a dedicated Z80 does the floppy I/O; the formatting code has to be in the Z80's firmware (which, indeed, is a "software consideration".). In some revisions of the Z80's firmware, the format option for RX50's isn't present (it returns an error). I'm currently looking for the "RX50 FAQ", put together by Charles Lasner most of a decade ago, in hope that it discusses which firmware revisions are/aren't capable of formatting. So far I've turned up about 30 pages of Charles's notes on RX50 interleave issues, but nothing about the Rainbow firmware! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

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AIM 65 question

by edick＠idcomm.com

What I meant was not that the AIM65 was CMOS, but rather, that the ROCKWELL version of the CMOS 6502 was different from the NMOS version sold by MOS Technology. One way of telling whether the assembler is written for the NMOS or the CMOS version, would be to have it assemble a source file with a few of the CMOS instructions in it and see how it handles them. What's more, the unimplemented opcodes in their CMOS processor were all implemented as NO-OPs while the NMOS version had that widely known (or at least heard-of) set of odd-ball (undocumented) instructions Hans Franke wrote about a month or two ago. You just have to look at the processor to determine whether it's a CMOS processor, but the assembler could be for either processor. The BASIC is probably the version for the NMOS part. I assume that the early release number is all one needs to tell that. Anything made after 1983-84 could go either way. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 2:58 PM Subject: Re: AIM 65 question >Dick, > > That's an interesting question! I wonder what the difference in the >software is? I don't think I've ever heard of a CMOS AIM 65. The BASIC >comes up as ver 1.1. I didn't see a version on the assembler. The ICs >containing the assembler and BASIC don't have any special markings. They're >PN is the same as the PN of the two standard ROMs except one digit is >different. > > Joe > >At 08:31 AM 5/25/99 -0600, you wrote: >>NOW . . . The interesting question is whether the firmware versions you have >>support the ROCKWELL CMOS versions or only the NMOS parts. Rockwell made >>the AIM 65 its evaluation system for their entry in the 6502 market, but >>their CMOS version is the one whose instruction set I thought was the best >>of all of them. If your AIM boards have the assembler and BASIC interpreter >>for the CMOS version, that's something to hang onto since it's still current >>as far as the compatible cores are concerned. >> >>Dick >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 4:15 AM >>Subject: Re: AIM 65 question >> >> >>>They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >>>>These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. >>>> >>>>William R. Buckley >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >>>>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >>>><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>>>Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM >>>>Subject: AIM 65 question >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>>>>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>>>>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs >>in >>>>>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the >>difference >>>>>there? >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>>>>commands to operate them? >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Talking about ST 506's, I have an old 5 MB one. It spins up, but I need <controller for it. The only XT MFM controller I have is a WD XT-GEN, and <they don't work with the 506's. ???? they don't???? I thought they were commonly found with ST506s! At least that's the only one besides the ST412 (10mb) I've ever seen one with. Allison

27 years

3
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AIM 65 question

by edick＠idcomm.com

NOW . . . The interesting question is whether the firmware versions you have support the ROCKWELL CMOS versions or only the NMOS parts. Rockwell made the AIM 65 its evaluation system for their entry in the 6502 market, but their CMOS version is the one whose instruction set I thought was the best of all of them. If your AIM boards have the assembler and BASIC interpreter for the CMOS version, that's something to hang onto since it's still current as far as the compatible cores are concerned. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 4:15 AM Subject: Re: AIM 65 question >They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. > > Joe > >At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >>These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. >> >>William R. Buckley >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM >>Subject: AIM 65 question >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >>>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >>>there? >>> >>> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>>commands to operate them? >>> >>> Joe >>> >> >> >

27 years

3
2
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DatEXT CD-ROM questions

by roblwill＠usaor.net

It's a Tandy MPC System software CD - Came with an OLD Sensation. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 1:35 PM Subject: Re: DatEXT CD-ROM questions >On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >>The CD that I am using is Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions 1.0. I >>used it previously to install Windows on my 5170. > >Windows 3.0 came on CD? Is this an original CD from Microsoft? > >--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > >

27 years

2
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68020 vs 68EC020

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

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27 years

4
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Mac Plus system & s/w available

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Hi folks, I'm passing this on for a friend who is not a computer collector or subscriber to ClassicCmp. His long-serving Mac used in his realty office had to be retired because of some sort of video failure. He didn't want to trash it and asked me if I'd take it. I'm not into Apple at all as that would be Yet Another Interest which I would dig into thus spending all kinds of money and time which I have little of either. Some of you know already that I've got enough to handle now ;) So, I want to let you Apple polishers (or "Mac-adamia Nuts" ;-) have a chance at taking the system. The problem with the main box is probably simple to fix using parts from another dead box. He says there is just a spot on the screen about a quarter inch or so in size. The system seems to act normally otherwise, just that he can't see anything on the screen. Apparently to me, just the video sweep section on the CRT board failed. Please contact him directly at esr(a)netsync.net if interested in the system. Paul Liuzzo is his name. Here's the list of items with the understanding that I do not know if I've given you enough info as I don't do Mac: ** Macintosh Plus (and says 'Macintosh Plus 1MB' on the large label on the back of the case), model M0001A. Apparently runs System 6.0.2. ** Kingston cooling fan/power switching module. Fits on top of the box to provide additional cooling and acts as AC power control center. ** Keyboard, model M0110A ** Mouse, model M0100 ** External hard drive (he recalls 40mb), CMS Enhancements (the Computerland label for accessories they sold) model STACK/3 ** Apple Personal Modem, model A9M0304 ** Two Apple Imagewriter II's 1.) model A9M0320 bought w/system above 2.) model A9M0310 given to him a couple years ago and never used by him. It's been used by previous owner though. Software included: ** Mac Utilities, etc., for ver 6.0.2 ** Filemaker Pro ** Filemaker II ** Superspool for Imagewriter ** Semantic Antivirus for Mac ver 2 ** CMS SCSI Utility for Mac ver 5.3 ** more misc software ** A stack of documentation for most of the s/w listed above. He doesn't want much except to have a collector take the system, all in one lot. I imagine paying shipping costs plus maybe a couple extra bucks would be okay. Again, contact Paul Liuzzo directly at esr(a)netsync.net if interested in the system. Jamestown, NY 14701 is the shipping point. Thanks much! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

27 years

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DatEXT CD-ROM questions

by roblwill＠usaor.net

The CD ROM no longer spins up to read the disk. The CD that I am using is Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions 1.0. I used it previously to install Windows on my 5170. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 7:45 AM Subject: Re: DatEXT CD-ROM questions >At 06:15 PM 5/24/99 -0700, Jason (the General) wrote: >>The unit was working fine when I powered it down and moved the computer >>across my basement a few months ago. When I powered it up today, the CD-ROM >>driver will load, but it won't read any disks. > >Have you tried to read a *contemporary* CD, or a CD that you know >is in pure old-style ISO-9660 CD format? Some of the newer extensions >could be throwing the driver for a loop. > >- John > >

27 years

2
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DatEXT CD-ROM questions

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I have a (miraculously) surviving (sort of) 1986 DatEXT external CD-ROM on my IBM 5170 AT. The unit was working fine when I powered it down and moved the computer across my basement a few months ago. When I powered it up today, the CD-ROM driver will load, but it won't read any disks. I took it apart to see if the drive was spinning up, and the first thing I noticed was that the little plastic labels covering the window on a couple of the EPROMs (or is it EEPROMS?) were peeling off (no longer sticky after 13 years). I'm guessing that this is the problem. Does anyone know where to get EPROM images for this drive, and how would I upload them to the chips? I'm assuming that I would need an EPROM burner. Where would I find one? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years

5
5
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Apollo DSP90-3M

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/25/99 8:53:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rickb(a)pail.enginet.com writes: > > I seem to remember, but not completely sure, that the CPU was essentially > an ECL implementation of a 68000...a comparatively very fast 68000. > The DSP 90 used the 68020 CPU card that was used in the 5XX series of workstations. It also contained the Apollo Ring network card to hook up to the network. It may or may not have an extra memory card. It did not have the display card as it was a rack mount server. It also had a Multibus 1 cardcage which held a SMD controller, a tape drive controller or any other Multibus card to drive interface one wanted to hang on the ring. It commonly had CDC 9" hard drives but you could use 8" or 14" SMD drives. Apollo also hung Cipher tape drives on it also. You could put removable pack drives also. It was used as a Server on an Apollo Ring. It did data and program storage mainly. If someone was going to set up an Apollo Ring for a museum it would be great. As to what Jim could use it for I'm not sure. Prob. trading material as I am not sure the Computer Garage has the space for an Apollo exhibit. If someone is interested in Apollo I have a working 580 system that I would like to sell or pass on. Paxton

27 years

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A step in the right direction...

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Hi! I saw this on our company bulletin board. A step in the right direction, but what happened to mending things? Philip. ********************************************** Facilities are pleased to announce the introduction to Westwood of the Environ Computer Recycling Scheme. Set up in August 1998 with East Midlands Electricity, the ECR scheme involves the refurbishment of IT equipment donated by companies. All original data is destroyed for full confidentiality. The computers are checked for electrical safety and to ensure they are in full working order. They are then refurbished and new software is loaded. The computers are then sold as full systems to non profit groups and for educational use. A small number are available for general sale. All non working equipment is recycled to extract useful and valuable materials, thereby reducing the amount of waste sent to landfill. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

27 years

2
1
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Apollo DSP90-3M

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

So... proving yet again that I just can't turn away a computer in need of a home, I find myself looking at an Apollo Computers DSP90-3M computer with an SMDE drive that is supposed to have the Apollo operating system on it. (I was just expecting drives!) I've got absolutely no background in Apollo gear, so I've got equally no idea what it is that I'm looking at! Anyone care to offer any insights? And... anyone care to offer it a home??? (I'm just NOT sure I'm ready to branch down the Apollo line...) --- Parallel but random thot... In loading this latest group of items into the 'Garage', and having recently crawled thru the warehouse trying to find something... I'm strongly thinking of staging an 'archeological dig' and equipment redistribution following the CP/M User's Group swap meet here in a couple of weeks... If there is sufficient interest! And perhaps even a tour thru the 'Garage' for those with even more of an 'Indiana Jones' bent... --- See? You have to real ALL of the messages or you might miss something really interesting that is not in the title! B^} -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years

4
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Space, the next frontier

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 24, 23:39, Tony Duell wrote: > The other 'nasty' is machines that will only take a limited number of > hard disk types (geometries). Sometimes only 2 or 3 drives are supported, > and you can bet that they'll either be almost impossible to find a drive > with all parameters in excess of the ones needed, or it will actually > verify that the drive has the specified geometry (e.g. checking that a '6 > head' drive doesn't work when heads >5 are selected). Tell me about it :-( > Getting the right > spare drive for one of those can really drive you insane. How do you think I got to be like this? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

2
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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Several days? That's pretty quick.... I've spent months looking for <working ST506-interfaced drives in the past.... You don't want to know how many ST506s, ST412s, St225s and D540s I have around here doing not much. And they are all good! <The other 'nasty' is machines that will only take a limited number of <hard disk types (geometries). Sometimes only 2 or 3 drives are supported, <and you can bet that they'll either be almost impossible to find a drive <with all parameters in excess of the ones needed, or it will actually <verify that the drive has the specified geometry (e.g. checking that a '6 <head' drive doesn't work when heads >5 are selected). Getting the right <spare drive for one of those can really drive you insane. And you have to know that little detail beforhand. Then there is the matter of formatting as some can't (require the disk to be formatted else where) and some require special software if they can. Allison < <-tony <

27 years

3
2
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Apollo DSP90-3M

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Hey, are these Apollos the ones with the *GIANT* SMD disk units? The ones I saw were *HUGE* 9" CDC's that had been refurbed by Seagate! They were mounted in a big tray (kinda like a SABRE, but bigger), with a powersupply, and some controller electronix. This whole mess was about a foot square, by maybe 2 feet deep. DOes that sound like it? On Mon, 24 May 1999 23:00:55 -0400 (EDT) "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" <red(a)bears.org> writes: >On Mon, 24 May 1999, James Willing wrote: > >> Anyone care to offer any insights? And... anyone care to offer it a >home??? >> (I'm just NOT sure I'm ready to branch down the Apollo line...) > >I can offer insights, if you prod me with specific questions. Or >alternately adopt it if it comes to that. > >> And perhaps even a tour thru the 'Garage' for those with even more >of an >> 'Indiana Jones' bent... > >I could be interested depending on scheduling... > >ok >r. > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years

4
3
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Space, the next frontier

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>c) On a related machine (I seem to remember Vaxstation 2000s can format >drives for at least one of the standard Q-bus controllers). Yes, the VS2000 format (and RCT table) is compatible with the RQDX3. You can do the formatting on the RQDX3 as well, with the right diagnostics. Of course, there are also machines with floppy drive systems that cannot do a low-level format. The most classic 8" floppy drive systems (specifically, the IBM 3740) can't format floppies, for example. There are also 5.25" floppy drive systems that can't format - for example, the RX50 on a DEC Q-bus or Unibus controller. (On some Rainbows, it is possible to low-level format RX50 media directly.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

3
2
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IBM PS/2 L40 SX Booting

by evilnet_genesis＠hotmail.com

Hi! At the moment I’m rather an unhappy user of an old PS/2 laptop computer. Why unhappy? I’m not able to boot it up, alltrough i tried everything, started >from disassembling it to the smallest part to changing the 3,5” floppy disk drive and so on. I would really appreciate any information or hint about starting it up. O.k, these are the specs of the machine: Machine: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX Proc.: i386DX @ 20 Mhz RAM: 2 Mb on-board (the two blue memory slots are still free) HDD: 60 Mb (Conner, Model CP2067, no OS on it) FDD: 3,5” 1.44 Mb (Panasonic, Model JU-237A03W, P/N 72X6074) < ! The problem is that the FDD activity LED does not light up when the computer is started, even when a disk is in the drive. Only the LCD symbol of the 3,5” disk drive on the computer panel goes on, but nothing happens. I never had the chance to work on PS/2 computers and so I don’t know what to do now. I’ve checked all connections and all cables. It seem like the FDD doesn’t get any power input from the board, but i’m not sure. I think that the problem is somewhere else. Later when the BIOS tries to boot up from the hard disk, a message in Danish appears telling that the command interpreter (COMMAND.COM) couldn’t be found … (The computer has a Danish BIOS on-board). Please help me, I need help as soon as possible. Mail all hints and/or advices to evilnet_genesis(a)yahoo.com or evilnet_genesis(a)hotmail.com. If nobody can’t help me then please give me some links or adresses, where I can find informations. Thank you! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years

2
1
0 0

Free: HP 3000/70 in UK

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, MARTIN_O'MURPHY(a)NON-HP-UNITEDKINGDOM-OM1.OM.HP.COM writes: > One of our UK HP 3000 customers has a > Series 70 that they no longer need/want. > >This system is available free to the first genuine >respondent who is prepared to collect/transport >it away. >If no-one responds in a reasonable period, the >70 meets Mr. Sledgehammer(TM) ;-) The HP 3000/70 is a stack-based CISC machine that runs MPE. No, it can't run any version of Linux or anything else. It's about 6' wide, 4'high, 2' deep. It dates back to about 1983 or so. BTW, I thought I had the TM on "Mr. Sledgehammer", see: http://www.allegro.com/sportster.html Stan

27 years

1
0
0 0

AIM 65 question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. Joe At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. > >William R. Buckley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM >Subject: AIM 65 question > > >>Hi, >> >> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >>there? >> >> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>commands to operate them? >> >> Joe >> > >

27 years

1
0
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core... more

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

Hi Chuck and all I've posted some pictures of the NCR core memory that I have on http://ccii.dockside.co.za/~wrm/ccc/index.html. There's also a picture of a PC network card (large thing with a Z80 on) that I'd like to identify. Wouter

27 years

1
0
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AIM 65 question

by hhacker＠home.com

These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM Subject: AIM 65 question >Hi, > > I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >there? > > Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >commands to operate them? > > Joe >

27 years

1
0
0 0

Strange DEC heavyweight.

by hhacker＠home.com

Tim: Thank you so much for this, and the earlier, message regarding the RS11. I will look into my handbooks, though I must admit to having only a few (like three) such manuals, and in them I have not found descriptions of all the hardware that I have to date obtained. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:06 AM Subject: Re: Strange DEC heavyweight. >>How big (storage capacity) might this device provide. > >512 kbytes for the RS03, 1024 kbytes for the RS04. > >>As for a picture, I shall look into providing same to the newsgroup. >>I do not have a web page, so some other mechanism of image >>distribution will be required. > >Doesn't everyone here have a mid-70's PDP11 Peripheral Handbook? They've >all got a picture of the RS series drives (and RM, and RP, and RK, and >RX, and ...) > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years

1
0
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Space, the next frontier

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I believe _Some_ of the Tandy 1000's were like this. My TX originally had some *unknown* brand HardCard with a MicroScience 3.5" MFM drive. The drive always worked good (made a neat "chunking" noise instead of chirping), until the spindle motor died (or something died). It wasn't frozen - it just wouldn't go. It also had a "ready" and "access" light (red and green). I ended up replacing it with a WD HardCard, which is about 50% slower than the MicroScience. Anyone have one of those old MicroScience drives that they want to get rid of? My Tandy 1000 (no suffix) is yearning for its HardCard back :) The model number of the drive was HH325. ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier >On Mon, 24 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: >>And you have to know that little detail beforhand. Then there is the >>matter of formatting as some can't (require the disk to be formatted else >>where) and some require special software if they can. > >Now, I've heard of this before, but I can't understand why anyone would >want to do this. And, where is 'else where'? > >--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > >

27 years

1
0
0 0

Space, the next frontier

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I read somewhere that they work with the ST-506 interface, but certain (newer) revisions won't work with the original 5MB ST-506. I don't know why - I just know it won't work with the one that I have. I think mine has a copyright date of 1989. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: Space, the next frontier ><Talking about ST 506's, I have an old 5 MB one. It spins up, but I need ><controller for it. The only XT MFM controller I have is a WD XT-GEN, and ><they don't work with the 506's. > >???? they don't???? I thought they were commonly found with ST506s! At >least that's the only one besides the ST412 (10mb) I've ever seen one with. > >Allison > >

27 years

1
0
0 0

(fwd) Xerox 820 FS/T/donate

by donm＠crash.cts.com

From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: (fwd) Xerox 820 FS/T/donate -- forwarded message -- Path: nusku.cts.com!mercury.cts.com!nntp.flash.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!cyclone.columbus.rr.com!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!elnws02.ce.mediaone.net!24.131.129.73!rmnws01.ce.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-fr-mail Message-ID: <37499BD0.19633D48(a)ce.mediaone.net> From: Dan Lurey <dlurey(a)ce.mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOEATL (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.xerox Subject: Xerox 820 FS/T/donate Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:34:56 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.29.200.133 X-Trace: rmnws01.ce.mediaone.net 927571374 24.29.200.133 (Mon, 24 May 1999 13:42:54 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:42:54 CDT Organization: MediaOne Express -=- Central Region Xref: nusku.cts.com comp.sys.xerox:339 I'm tired of tripping over an old 820 w/ 2-8" FDD's & monitor. I also have s/w, manuals, and a couple of main boards (one bare???). Help me find a home for this! PLEASE!!!??? -- Dan Lurey E-Mail: dlurey(a)mediaone.net ----- Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. -- end of forwarded message --

27 years

1
0
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Space, the next frontier

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 24, 17:38, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface > >hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be > >particularly hard to come by around here. > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? Yes, Seagate made quite a lot of them at one time. So did Teac, NEC and WD. The first 3.5" ones were Rodimes, though. The hard drive system sitting on the BBC Micro beside me has one: it's a home-designed system which has an Adaptec ACB4000 controller (which is SCSI, but SASI-compatible), and a BBC 1MHz Bus to SASI adapter, and presently has an NEC 40MB 3.5" drive in it. Originally it had one of the first 10MB 3.5" Rodime RO352 drives (which is now in a modified DEC TK50Z box, pretending to be an RD51). I still have the receipts somewhere; I think the drive cost about ?400 in the mid-80s. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Talking about ST 506's, I have an old 5 MB one. It spins up, but I need a controller for it. The only XT MFM controller I have is a WD XT-GEN, and they don't work with the 506's. Anyone have a spare controller that they don't need? Preferably an old IBM?? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:18 PM Subject: Re[2]: Space, the next frontier >ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> And it's getting >> ever harder to get working ST506 drives. > >Hi > The biggest trouble with these drives is that the head >stepper has a limit arm right where fools can get at >it. Wipe the arm back and forth once, with the disk >stationary, and you've made a nice groove in the surface. >The other thing is on the braking of the spindle. Some >used a mechanical brake but others used dynamic braking. >The ones with dynamic braking are real sensitive to >having the heads drag backwards because of rotational >inertia. Both of these are handling issues. It does >help to alway park the heads on the far end before >moving the machine that has one of these drives. When >removing, one should also tape a piece of cardboard over >the steppers end so you don't bump the sector limit arm >and move the heads sideways. Some also have spindle locks >but be real careful to watch the rotational direction. >Turn the spindle the same way that it normally runs, only. > The reason these two things cause so much trouble is that >the back side of the heads have a real sharp edge. It tends >to dig into the disk like a carpenters plane. > If your old setup doesn't have a head park routine, I >would highly recommend that you write one. I recommend >that you always park the heads every time before you power >off. I have several 506's that are still running and >have many hours on them. >Dwight > >

27 years

3
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DEC copyright question

by wrking＠tsoft.com

I've read that DEC granted unrestricted reproduction rights to their old documentation. I'd like to confirm this before I announce to the world the URL where a PDF version of the PDT 11/150 mini maintenance manual can be found. Any information regarding this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill

27 years

1
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FONT NAME question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Could be Futura. < <I can't remember now for sure, but I think I tried Futura (well, it's one <of the obvious ones, so I'm sure I did) and found Helvetica a better match The closest is Helvetica Bold Oblique(with the height to width ratios altered), however the actual font is a sans serif monospaced block font. I used to know what the acceptable substitute was. However most of the fonts and their names postdate the DIGITAL logo font. A little tuning of the metioned font passes real well. If you can write Postscript and understand postscript fontmetrics it's a easy hack to make 100% real looking DEC keys. Allison

27 years

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>And you have to know that little detail beforhand. Then there is the <>matter of formatting as some can't (require the disk to be formatted else <>where) and some require special software if they can. < <Now, I've heard of this before, but I can't understand why anyone would <want to do this. And, where is 'else where'? Simple, the disk is factory supplied with the correct base formatting. For example the average PDP-11 user or MicroVAX user cannot format the MFM hard disks used in some subsystem without special formatting software that is part of a diagnostic package. Or the case of the DEC 8" floppies most of the systems (RX01/02) cannot format them at all. This has occured elsewhere in the industry over the years. There are two cases for doing this, your locked into sole sourced media (TU58 for example) or for lack of capability incorperated into the hardware. Some cases like a few of the removeable platter packs, the servo information required for head positioning is done as a seperate manufacturing operation and cannot easily be put in the drive. Allison

27 years

1
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FONT NAME question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 24, 15:05, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Subject: Re: FONT NAME question > ::It's not very close to Arial. It's almost exactly standard Helvetica Bold. > > Could be Futura. I can't remember now for sure, but I think I tried Futura (well, it's one of the obvious ones, so I'm sure I did) and found Helvetica a better match. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

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