- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I have a chance to pick up an old Penril VCX-100. It is supposedly a >serial port multiplexor to connect a bunch of terminals to a host. > >I have a bunch of terminals and not enough ports on my host (Linux PC). >Can anyone tell me how to use this box? The VCX100 comes either with a V.35 interface or a RS-232 composite interface. On the other end of this interface is always another Penril box which does the demultiplexing. So, no, by itself this Penril box won't do you any good. What would do you the most good is a DECServer 700 or some other TCP/IP compatible terminal server. This you can throw onto your LAN quite easily. Older DECServers (like the 200 and 300) can be put into service as well if you want to go to the trouble of enabling MOP boot support and LAT in your Linux box. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 10 months

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To those who want the VAXstation 3100

by arfonrg＠texas.net

Instead of me deciding who gets the station, I'll let you guys decide among yourselves. Whomever is wants it enough to make the call, it is at: MC Howard Electronics 9417 Neils Thompson Dr. Austin, Tx 78758 800-490-6896 ***ASK FOR RANDALL*** It: VAXstation 3100 16Mb RAM Randall said they'd ship it. They have a minimum order of $20.00 (for shipped orders) so, the price is $20.00. Go for it guys! ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 10 months

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Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question

by donm＠cts.com

I am a little frustrated and sure that I am missing something rather obvious. However, what must I do to assure that VMS (5.5) recognizes my RX33 floppy drive, DUA2, on bootup without having to run SYSGEN and Autoconfigure All each time. The machine tries to boot from it if it has a disk installed and then switches to the RD54 DUA0 to go on to boot. - don

26 years, 10 months

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VAXstation 3100

by robert.edis＠creatcomp.com

What is the model number of the machine? This can be either something like /76 or in the form XX-XXX-XN etc. I doubt it can run a VGA monitor (15 pin). It should have VMS as the OS and may support DEC Windows on a DEC graphics monitor. Otherwise just need a VT type monitor or connect a PC to it via the serial port and use a terminal emulator such as WinQVT32 (share ware). If you don't want the machine. I'll have it! I want a VMS machine to play with at home. Through DECUS you can get a free VMS license plus free licenses for layered products and development tools such as DEC BASIC, C++, Fortran, Etc. You will have to pay about USD30 for the CD-ROMS though. Blue PowerHouse consultant Rhode Island, USA Disclaimer: The opinions and ideas expressed in this message are my own and have no relationship to my current employer, Initial Technical Staffing, its client CCI, or any of CCI's clients. -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd [mailto:arfonrg@texas.net] Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 3:21 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: VAXstation 3100 I can pick up a VAXstation 3100 (just the box, no monitor/keyboard/etc). Is this worth messing with? What's in it processor wise? Can I rig it to a VGA monitor? Should I let it pass? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 10 months

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Serial Multiplexor???

by arfonrg＠texas.net

I have a chance to pick up an old Penril VCX-100. It is supposedly a serial port multiplexor to connect a bunch of terminals to a host. I have a bunch of terminals and not enough ports on my host (Linux PC). Can anyone tell me how to use this box? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 10 months

1
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RL02s Working, need Driver info

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well... in my attempts to get RL02 drives integreated into my 11/44 system, I have discovered that I have mounted two bad drives (out of a possible 9) in the damn rack. Yesiree.. just the Way it Goes. I rolled in two of the Drives that Dave Jenner so graciously gave me, and lo! they work like the Book says they should. They test good, they load, they come into ready, and the fault light stays mercifully dark. Now: naturally the required drivers for DL devices are not resident when RSTS is booted. Since I am lacking any decent RSTS documentation, and since the 'help' utility is not that much help in this instance, I was wondering if anyone reading the List might be able to help me with finding and loading the correct drivers for 'DL'. I could maybe do this under RT11, but RSTS... d'oh! I have RSTS V9.7 -08 RSTS97 (DB0). It looks like this: $ mount DL0: ^ mount: illegal device name $ (Same for allocate) I have not printed out the installation log, but it is present >from the last time the machine was sysgenned.. if that would be of any help. I will try and provide any more info from the system that might be required, but I confess I don't know exactly what to ask in this situation. Cheers and thanks for everyone's help so far.. Cheers John

26 years, 10 months

3
5
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VAXstation CDROM questions (again)

by paul＠paul.dragontear.org

Hello, Here's my question: I have a VAXstation 3100, and i'm interested in upgrading VMS. Currently it runs VMS 5.4. Since the VAX doesn't have a cdrom, and i'm assuming the cost of a DEC CDROM is outrageous (i'm 15, give me a break.), I was wondering if there is a way to install >from a network CDROM drive. Could I setup my Linux box to share it's CDROM via NFS? Or is there perhaps any software that would allow this? Or am I insane? The questions.. Thanks in advance. :) -paul -- paul(a)paul.dragontear.org [a paradigm of a paramount failure]

26 years, 10 months

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RQDX3

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Anybody need this? Picked up with a bunch of other junque. DOn't know if it works. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 10 months

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FW: Free DECNIS router

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Want a free high-capacity router? Contact this fellow directly. Vancouver, BC area. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:51:03 GMT, in vmsnet.decus you wrote: >>Message-ID: <3763C557.148F988(a)home.com> >>From: Gerry Pelletier <gpell(a)home.com> >>Reply-To: gpell(a)home.com >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) >>X-Accept-Language: en >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.decus >>Subject: Free DECNIS router >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Lines: 20 >>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:51:03 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.113.82.227 >>X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)home.net >>X-Trace: news.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com 929285463 24.113.82.227 (Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:51:03 PDT) >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:51:03 PDT >>Organization: @Home Network Canada >>Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!206.190.128.10!newsfeed.yosemite.net!newspeer1.nac.net!netnews.com!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net vmsnet.decus:3 >> >>Free: DEC network router, DECNIS 600 >> >>If you don't know what this is then it's not for you. It is a large, >>high capacity router designed for enterprise backbone network >>configurations. It will only work in an existing DEC (Compaq) >>network installation. >> >>Has the following interface cards: >> >>Qty Type Description >> 4 L601 Single-port Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 AUI >> 1 L602 Dual-port Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 Thinwire >> 1 F621 Single-port FDDI, SAS or DAS >> >>If you can make use of it, you can have it. Pick it up or arrange for >>delivery from Vancouver area. Contact gpell(a)home.com >> >>//Gerry >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

26 years, 10 months

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Early BASIC "how-to" books

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 13, 19:05, Phil Guerney wrote: > Subject: Early BASIC "how-to" books > There must have been a thousand titles like "Learn BASIC for your ModelX > Home Computer". > > The earliest I have found is Copyright 1977 by Jerald Brown (DYMAX, CA) > called Instant Basic The earliest I have is "Illustrating BASIC" by Donald Alcock, also 1977. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 10 months

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Fw: It's going to be scrapped...

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

Another desperate homeless S/36. In the UC I think. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Saxby <saxby(a)vossnet.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware Date: Saturday, 12 June 1999 21:50 Subject: It's going to be scrapped... >I've got one IBM S/36 complete with 3 terminals that is going to be scrapped >next week unless someone wants to take it. I've posted this 3 times now for >the reason that I don't want to see this machine scrapped. Absoloutely no >one contacted me. > >If no one takes it, then I will scrap it as I have no choice. > >The same applies to two Amstrad 1512's with printer a 8256 with printer and >an 9512+ with printer and disks. >There is also a load of 286 and 386 Dell's and lots of old CGA/EGA monitors >that need to go as well > >Come on, somebody must take them, or they will all have to be scrapped. I >don't want to scrap them, but if you don't take them, then they will be. > >Let me know by next Friday if you want anything > >--- >Matthew > >

26 years, 10 months

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Early BASIC "how-to" books

by guerney＠uq.net.au

There must have been a thousand titles like "Learn BASIC for your ModelX Home Computer". The earliest I have found is Copyright 1977 by Jerald Brown (DYMAX, CA) called Instant Basic and subtitled "Learn the new streamlined ALTAIR style BASIC used in personal computers and the similar DEC BASIC-PLUS". It is a thick letter paper sized softcover in a very "jazzed-up" style full of large print in mixed-up typefaces and clip-art. (dilithium Press, OR). I am sure there probably are earlier "for the masses" BASIC texts aimed at home microcomputer owners (which cuts out those books on VAX Basic etc) - how early do they go? Phil in Brisbane, Australia.

26 years, 10 months

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Televideo TS-806/20

by edick＠idcomm.com

you wrote "I can pop it into my 286 and try to salvage the data." NO!!!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!! YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY MOVE IT TO AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE IT CANNOT BE ROACHED UP BY A PC OR OTHER MACHINE!!!!. Preferably a county (better yet, country, or, better still, planet) totally devoid of other computers. The floppy drive is a dsdd 48 tpi drive, quite standard, and, as the error messages suggest, the system loaded from the hard disk expects to find something on the FDD. All diskettes are not alike. Not even all boot diskettes are alike, but you should have enough on the HDD to create a boot diskette from what's there and live happily ever after. You might even be able to save the "network" OS, which it may have on it, though that's not necessarily what YOU will want to do. Still, if someone else wants it, you're better off with having it than not. What you have now works, though it's looking for something you probably haven't got. Bdos Err On A: Bad Sector doesn't mean anything except that it can't read what it thinks it ought to read on drive A, the floppy. if you hit <enter> a few times, it should give up. If you hit <CTL-C> it should terminate whatever it's doing and warm boot, though that might lead you back to the BDOS Error. I don't remember whether CP/M retries its submit files (like a DOS Autoexec.bat) on a warm boot. Try to figure out what it's looking for. There might be a file of the form *.sub, though that might be hidden, (look in user 15) which you can write to a floppy formatted (heaven knows what that procedure is called on this machine) right there on it's own drive so you'll have it. Perhaps you should get someone local to you to help you find the missing item and save it on a floppy. I can send you a boot diskette, but there's no guarantee that it will contain what your system is looking for because my system didn't have the same OS. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 1:32 PM Subject: Re: Televideo TS-806/20 >My machine has one floppy, one HDD & no free bays. The floppy is a TEAC >FD-55B-01-U. The hard drive is a CD JOHNSON & ASSOCIATES LTD. The only >daughter board in it is the HDC board. There are around two empty small >dip sockets under the drive rack. I finally got it to boot after a few >power cycles. >On boot it displays: >System IPL from Hard disk in progress > >TELEVIDEO SYSTEM TS-806/20 V1.2 >60k CP/M Vers. 2.2 >Tandon TM-503 Winchester. > >Copyright 1985, Software 2000, Inc. (9/1541) >Testing 64K of memory...............no errors >A:OSMASTER.SYS loading from 915C to FFFF, size 6EA4 >TurboDOS 1.42, Copyright 1985, Software 2000, Inc. (9/1525) > >and I am left in TurboDOS. After a while, I started to get read errors. >And now on boot I get: >System IPL from Hard disk in progress > >TELEVIDEO SYSTEM TS-806/20 V1.2 >60k CP/M Vers. 2.2 >Tandon TM-503 Winchester. > >Bios Read Error on A: >Track = 0002, Sector = 00 >WDC status = 51H, WDC error = 01H > >Bdos Err On A: Bad Sector > >So, It seems like I'm going to need that boot disk after all. >Also, Do you know if this hard disk interface is MFM? If it is (as it >looks), I can pop it into my 286 and try to salvage the data. > > T.H.x. > Devon > > >At 08:45 PM 11/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: >>The computer has bays for two floppy and two hard disk drives. You do have >>to open it up to see them, but if you've seen the controller board, and if >>you've seen the dip switches, you must know whether or not you have the >>winchester drive(s). A -20 normally had a single 20MB drive, which, for >>those days, was pretty decent. Two of them - WOW! that was a BIG machine. >>If you haven't got hard disks in the box, or if they're disconnected, you >>should probably connect them up and try to see if they boot. That "IPL . . >>." message is what you get when it sees there's nothing in the Floppy Drive. >>Do you have a floppy drive? Let's figure out what's on this machine before >>we go off half-cocked. >> >>The boot disk is no big deal to create, though my '806's are both sitting >>outdoors, having had their HDD's cannibalized years ago. I can probably >>read the things with my AMPRO, which means I should be able to write them as >>well. >> >>I need to know whether your floppy drives are 48TPI or 96 TPI drives, since >>both were in common use. >> >>Next time you're inside the box, see what else is inside. Are there any >>daughterboards, or are there any empty sockets? >> >>Dick >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 8:28 PM >>Subject: Re: Televideo TS-806/20 >> >> >>>I hadn't known thats what they were for (winch)...If I ever get some, I bet >>>I can rig something up. After fiddling around some more (thanks for the >>>info, all), I've got it to work...kind of...When it starts it now says >>>"System IPL from Hard disk in progress". Then no more... I know the disk >>>booted before ...I could type garbage back when I was getting garbage >>>(about 4 times before it quit)... It would be great if you could send me a >>>boot disk... Televideo hasn't replied to my e-mails yet...I'll give them a >>>few more days.. >>> >>> T.H.x. >>> Devon >>> >>>At 06:24 PM 11/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: >>>>Well, I'm not sure I agree about the relative importance of cables with >>>>which to interface a hard disk. That's probably the one thing that makes >>a >>>>computer compute fast enough to be useful. >>>> >>>>First of all I'd try 9600 baud before anything else, since I believe >>that's >>>>the default. I don't remember what the board switches do, but I can hunt >>>>around for the manual and get back to you. I wouldn't use PCAW, as a >>>>terminal, myself. I haven't had good luck with it. How about >>Hyperterminal >>>>of Procomm. I've used both of those in connection with a PC and had >>better >>>>luck than with PCAW, though I've had good luck using PCAW for file >>>>transfers, etc. >>>> >>>>This box was ostensibly a file server and probably contains VERY important >>>>software, e.g. the MMMost (or whatever it was called) network OS, which >>>>isn't around any longer. This box is capable of serving as a single-user >>>>system, but if you still have the HDD, from which it should boot all by >>>>itself if it hasn't been roached up, you might want to preserve it. >>>> >>>>Well you're in luck . . . I got a phone interruption after which I thought >>>>of a place to look for the manual...Oddly enough, that's where it was. >>>> >>>>The manual says the "upper" four bits of the dip switch is used for baud >>>>rate settings. The lower four bits (5,6,7,8) are unused except for >>position >>>>8 which is reserved for diagnostics. Obviously, the one who wrote this >>>>manual was on drugs. A closed switch is a zero. >>>> >>>>The baud rates go from 19.2K down to 75, with ascending values from 0000 >>to >>>>1000, remembering that a 0 means CLOSED. Switch 1 is the lsb. >>>> >>>>I hope that helps you get it going! >>>> >>>>If you need a boot diskette, maybe I can help you there as well. >>>> >>>>Televideo, by the way, is still in business, so it's not inconceivable >>they >>>>might be able to help too, if you ask them. >>>> >>>>Dick >>> >> >> >

26 years, 10 months

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2
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FW: IBM System/36 available

by cfandt＠netsync.net

For those who are interested in IBM S36 gear here's a message thread copied >from the newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc. Owner is near Ashville, NC. Contact her directly of course. >From: lindabr(a)my-deja.com >Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc >Subject: Re: IBI System/36 Model 5362 Available >Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 04:27:03 GMT -- snip rest of header -- >I'm located near Asheville, NC. Sorry to be so slow in answering-- >thought I had it taken care of, but alas they haven't come to get it. > >In article <37570010.D7D1FEDA(a)erols.com>, > Shaye Hollander <shayeh(a)erols.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Where are you located?? >> >> lindabr(a)my-deja.com wrote: >> >> > I'm an RPGII programmer and I have just lost my last customer. Is there >> > anyone out there interested in a Model 5362 System/36 processor, 3 each >> > 5291 terminal and a 5224 printer? Please let me know. I hate to just >> > take it to the dump. Thanks Linda T. Brown >> Sounds to me like a rescue of an up-and-running machine! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association Check our redesigned website! URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

26 years, 10 months

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Televideo TS-806/20

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'll try to fire up one of these babies and make you a boot diskette. Keep in mind, however, that my boot diskette may not have a BIOS compatible with your hard disk format on it, since mine is not an original TVI boot disk. I'll need an address, however, since you can't build a boot disk from binaries. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Televideo TS-806/20 >Drive A, on this machine, is the hard drive. So is Drive B. Drive C is the >floppy (I had it running, before the HDD started to fail more and would no >longer boot). Can you send me a boot disk? > > T.H.x. > Devon > >At 05:16 PM 12/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: >>you wrote >> >>"I can pop it into my 286 and try to salvage the data." >> >>NO!!!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!! YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY MOVE IT TO AN ENVIRONMENT >>WHERE IT CANNOT BE ROACHED UP BY A PC OR OTHER MACHINE!!!!. Preferably a >>county (better yet, country, or, better still, planet) totally devoid of >>other computers. >> >>The floppy drive is a dsdd 48 tpi drive, quite standard, and, as the error >>messages suggest, the system loaded from the hard disk expects to find >>something on the FDD. All diskettes are not alike. Not even all boot >>diskettes are alike, but you should have enough on the HDD to create a boot >>diskette from what's there and live happily ever after. You might even be >>able to save the "network" OS, which it may have on it, though that's not >>necessarily what YOU will want to do. Still, if someone else wants it, >>you're better off with having it than not. >> >>What you have now works, though it's looking for something you probably >>haven't got. >> >>Bdos Err On A: Bad Sector doesn't mean anything except that it can't read >>what it thinks it ought to read on drive A, the floppy. >> >>if you hit <enter> a few times, it should give up. If you hit <CTL-C> it >>should terminate whatever it's doing and warm boot, though that might lead >>you back to the BDOS Error. I don't remember whether CP/M retries its >>submit files (like a DOS Autoexec.bat) on a warm boot. >> >>Try to figure out what it's looking for. There might be a file of the form >>*.sub, though that might be hidden, (look in user 15) which you can write >>to a floppy formatted (heaven knows what that procedure is called on this >>machine) right there on it's own drive so you'll have it. Perhaps you >>should get someone local to you to help you find the missing item and save >>it on a floppy. >> >>I can send you a boot diskette, but there's no guarantee that it will >>contain what your system is looking for because my system didn't have the >>same OS. >> >>Dick >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 1:32 PM >>Subject: Re: Televideo TS-806/20 >> >> >>>My machine has one floppy, one HDD & no free bays. The floppy is a TEAC >>>FD-55B-01-U. The hard drive is a CD JOHNSON & ASSOCIATES LTD. The only >>>daughter board in it is the HDC board. There are around two empty small >>>dip sockets under the drive rack. I finally got it to boot after a few >>>power cycles. >>>On boot it displays: >>>System IPL from Hard disk in progress >>> >>>TELEVIDEO SYSTEM TS-806/20 V1.2 >>>60k CP/M Vers. 2.2 >>>Tandon TM-503 Winchester. >>> >>>Copyright 1985, Software 2000, Inc. (9/1541) >>>Testing 64K of memory...............no errors >>>A:OSMASTER.SYS loading from 915C to FFFF, size 6EA4 >>>TurboDOS 1.42, Copyright 1985, Software 2000, Inc. (9/1525) >>> >>>and I am left in TurboDOS. After a while, I started to get read errors. >>>And now on boot I get: >>>System IPL from Hard disk in progress >>> >>>TELEVIDEO SYSTEM TS-806/20 V1.2 >>>60k CP/M Vers. 2.2 >>>Tandon TM-503 Winchester. >>> >>>Bios Read Error on A: >>>Track = 0002, Sector = 00 >>>WDC status = 51H, WDC error = 01H >>> >>>Bdos Err On A: Bad Sector >>> >>>So, It seems like I'm going to need that boot disk after all. >>>Also, Do you know if this hard disk interface is MFM? If it is (as it >>>looks), I can pop it into my 286 and try to salvage the data. >>> >>> T.H.x. >>> Devon >>> >>> >>>At 08:45 PM 11/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: >>>>The computer has bays for two floppy and two hard disk drives. You do >>have >>>>to open it up to see them, but if you've seen the controller board, and if >>>>you've seen the dip switches, you must know whether or not you have the >>>>winchester drive(s). A -20 normally had a single 20MB drive, which, for >>>>those days, was pretty decent. Two of them - WOW! that was a BIG >>machine. >>>>If you haven't got hard disks in the box, or if they're disconnected, you >>>>should probably connect them up and try to see if they boot. That "IPL . >>. >>>>." message is what you get when it sees there's nothing in the Floppy >>Drive. >>>>Do you have a floppy drive? Let's figure out what's on this machine >>before >>>>we go off half-cocked. >>>> >>>>The boot disk is no big deal to create, though my '806's are both sitting >>>>outdoors, having had their HDD's cannibalized years ago. I can probably >>>>read the things with my AMPRO, which means I should be able to write them >>as >>>>well. >>>> >>>>I need to know whether your floppy drives are 48TPI or 96 TPI drives, >>since >>>>both were in common use. >>>> >>>>Next time you're inside the box, see what else is inside. Are there any >>>>daughterboards, or are there any empty sockets? >>>> >>>>Dick >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> >>>>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >>>><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>>>Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 8:28 PM >>>>Subject: Re: Televideo TS-806/20 >>>> >>>> >>>>>I hadn't known thats what they were for (winch)...If I ever get some, I >>bet >>>>>I can rig something up. After fiddling around some more (thanks for the >>>>>info, all), I've got it to work...kind of...When it starts it now says >>>>>"System IPL from Hard disk in progress". Then no more... I know the disk >>>>>booted before ...I could type garbage back when I was getting garbage >>>>>(about 4 times before it quit)... It would be great if you could send me >>a >>>>>boot disk... Televideo hasn't replied to my e-mails yet...I'll give them >>a >>>>>few more days.. >>>>> >>>>> T.H.x. >>>>> Devon >>>>> >>>>>At 06:24 PM 11/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: >>>>>>Well, I'm not sure I agree about the relative importance of cables with >>>>>>which to interface a hard disk. That's probably the one thing that >>makes >>>>a >>>>>>computer compute fast enough to be useful. >>>>>> >>>>>>First of all I'd try 9600 baud before anything else, since I believe >>>>that's >>>>>>the default. I don't remember what the board switches do, but I can >>hunt >>>>>>around for the manual and get back to you. I wouldn't use PCAW, as a >>>>>>terminal, myself. I haven't had good luck with it. How about >>>>Hyperterminal >>>>>>of Procomm. I've used both of those in connection with a PC and had >>>>better >>>>>>luck than with PCAW, though I've had good luck using PCAW for file >>>>>>transfers, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>>This box was ostensibly a file server and probably contains VERY >>important >>>>>>software, e.g. the MMMost (or whatever it was called) network OS, which >>>>>>isn't around any longer. This box is capable of serving as a >>single-user >>>>>>system, but if you still have the HDD, from which it should boot all by >>>>>>itself if it hasn't been roached up, you might want to preserve it. >>>>>> >>>>>>Well you're in luck . . . I got a phone interruption after which I >>thought >>>>>>of a place to look for the manual...Oddly enough, that's where it was. >>>>>> >>>>>>The manual says the "upper" four bits of the dip switch is used for >>baud >>>>>>rate settings. The lower four bits (5,6,7,8) are unused except for >>>>position >>>>>>8 which is reserved for diagnostics. Obviously, the one who wrote this >>>>>>manual was on drugs. A closed switch is a zero. >>>>>> >>>>>>The baud rates go from 19.2K down to 75, with ascending values from 0000 >>>>to >>>>>>1000, remembering that a 0 means CLOSED. Switch 1 is the lsb. >>>>>> >>>>>>I hope that helps you get it going! >>>>>> >>>>>>If you need a boot diskette, maybe I can help you there as well. >>>>>> >>>>>>Televideo, by the way, is still in business, so it's not inconceivable >>>>they >>>>>>might be able to help too, if you ask them. >>>>>> >>>>>>Dick >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually they could all write MFM (double density). The problem was that some couldn't read what they had written because there was inadequate write precompensation and the waveform peaks were at the wrong time during read and their amplifiers weren't sensitive enough to catch them. In any case what the COULD and what the DID were often not the same. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 5:42 PM Subject: Re: tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive >> >> Does anyone here have the specifications for a Tandon 848-2 8" >> floppy drive? Mainly i'm interested in if it is DSDD, and if > >Easiest way to see how many sides it can do is to look at the number of >heads. If the thing on the 'top' side (away from the spindle) is a head >(i.e. it has wires going to it), it's double sided. > >Also look at the number of index sensors. Most (all?) double-sided drives >have 2 of them as the index hole is in different places on SS and DS 8" >disks. > >AFAIK, almost all 8" drives, other than possibly the _very_ early ones >can do double density. > >-tony >

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's really quite simple. I looked at mine (not an easy trick, considering where they were) and saw that they were plugged into the same oiwer supply as my QUME or Shugart or whatever they were had been. They appear to have the same power huukups as the older drives, except that there's no AC power. Now, I can't swear to that, since it was dark in there, but I surely didn't see an AC cable to the slimline drives. I don't know whether this particular box has -5 or -12 to the drives, but I believe it's -5. That works in more cases than the -12, since only SOME drives have the onboard regulator for the negative supply. As usual, you can be pretty safe assuming the obvious. I doubt the manufacturers would have used the same supply connector if they hadn't intended one to use the same supply. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 3:48 PM Subject: Re: tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive ><Does anyone here have the specifications for a Tandon 848-2 8" ><floppy drive? Mainly i'm interested in if it is DSDD, and if ><so, then i would need to know some data about what type of power ><connector it uses. > >DS is easy, look for a top and bottom head. DD is easy as with rare >exception all can do DD. > >The power connector is a different matter. > >Allison >

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Does anyone here have the specifications for a Tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive? Mainly i'm interested in if it is DSDD, and if so, then i would need to know some data about what type of power connector it uses. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

26 years, 10 months

3
2
0 0

tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone here have the specifications for a Tandon 848-2 8" <floppy drive? Mainly i'm interested in if it is DSDD, and if <so, then i would need to know some data about what type of power <connector it uses. DS is easy, look for a top and bottom head. DD is easy as with rare exception all can do DD. The power connector is a different matter. Allison

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive

by edick＠idcomm.com

I have a couple of these, but, unfortunately no data. In my case, however, they're in a system which, though it hasn't been turned on in five or six years, is presumably functional. I imagine that at a minimum I can provide you with information about power and jumpers for my CP/M application. These drives are DSDD, by the way, and step at 3 ms or, in some cases, faster, though my controllers won't go faster. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 2:18 PM Subject: tandon 848-2 8" floppy drive >Does anyone here have the specifications for a Tandon 848-2 8" >floppy drive? Mainly i'm interested in if it is DSDD, and if >so, then i would need to know some data about what type of power >connector it uses. > >-Lawrence LeMay > lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

OT request: need SIIG and SMC network drivers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It's been my experience that the ONLY way to ensure that the autoinstall <software of one of SMC's network boards works properly is to put it in a <system which does not have PLUG_N_PLAY capability and then ensure it's the Just installed one at work into a file/printserver (W95 and HP6000). Did it by the book and it went as no big deal. I did as usual remove the bad one delete it from the device profile first or W95 will get stupid. I have PnP system of the early genreation types most are P133 and P166 with loads of lagacy stuff around and generally they behave. when they don't I've found the manufacturers disk to be handy (Intel EPRO10/PnP especially) to sort out the occasional errant card pulled from the spares bin (used but known good). Allison

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Anyone collecting Harris Systems

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Out of curiousity does anyone have a Harris H-500 preserved in their collection? I was thinking about this today, I've not seen anything on any Harris Mini's. This was the first real computer that I used/worked on. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 10 months

3
2
0 0

Televideo TS-806/20

by edick＠idcomm.com

The computer has bays for two floppy and two hard disk drives. You do have to open it up to see them, but if you've seen the controller board, and if you've seen the dip switches, you must know whether or not you have the winchester drive(s). A -20 normally had a single 20MB drive, which, for those days, was pretty decent. Two of them - WOW! that was a BIG machine. If you haven't got hard disks in the box, or if they're disconnected, you should probably connect them up and try to see if they boot. That "IPL . . ." message is what you get when it sees there's nothing in the Floppy Drive. Do you have a floppy drive? Let's figure out what's on this machine before we go off half-cocked. The boot disk is no big deal to create, though my '806's are both sitting outdoors, having had their HDD's cannibalized years ago. I can probably read the things with my AMPRO, which means I should be able to write them as well. I need to know whether your floppy drives are 48TPI or 96 TPI drives, since both were in common use. Next time you're inside the box, see what else is inside. Are there any daughterboards, or are there any empty sockets? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Televideo TS-806/20 >I hadn't known thats what they were for (winch)...If I ever get some, I bet >I can rig something up. After fiddling around some more (thanks for the >info, all), I've got it to work...kind of...When it starts it now says >"System IPL from Hard disk in progress". Then no more... I know the disk >booted before ...I could type garbage back when I was getting garbage >(about 4 times before it quit)... It would be great if you could send me a >boot disk... Televideo hasn't replied to my e-mails yet...I'll give them a >few more days.. > > T.H.x. > Devon > >At 06:24 PM 11/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: >>Well, I'm not sure I agree about the relative importance of cables with >>which to interface a hard disk. That's probably the one thing that makes a >>computer compute fast enough to be useful. >> >>First of all I'd try 9600 baud before anything else, since I believe that's >>the default. I don't remember what the board switches do, but I can hunt >>around for the manual and get back to you. I wouldn't use PCAW, as a >>terminal, myself. I haven't had good luck with it. How about Hyperterminal >>of Procomm. I've used both of those in connection with a PC and had better >>luck than with PCAW, though I've had good luck using PCAW for file >>transfers, etc. >> >>This box was ostensibly a file server and probably contains VERY important >>software, e.g. the MMMost (or whatever it was called) network OS, which >>isn't around any longer. This box is capable of serving as a single-user >>system, but if you still have the HDD, from which it should boot all by >>itself if it hasn't been roached up, you might want to preserve it. >> >>Well you're in luck . . . I got a phone interruption after which I thought >>of a place to look for the manual...Oddly enough, that's where it was. >> >>The manual says the "upper" four bits of the dip switch is used for baud >>rate settings. The lower four bits (5,6,7,8) are unused except for position >>8 which is reserved for diagnostics. Obviously, the one who wrote this >>manual was on drugs. A closed switch is a zero. >> >>The baud rates go from 19.2K down to 75, with ascending values from 0000 to >>1000, remembering that a 0 means CLOSED. Switch 1 is the lsb. >> >>I hope that helps you get it going! >> >>If you need a boot diskette, maybe I can help you there as well. >> >>Televideo, by the way, is still in business, so it's not inconceivable they >>might be able to help too, if you ask them. >> >>Dick >

26 years, 10 months

2
1
0 0

OT request: need SIIG and SMC network drivers

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's been my experience that the ONLY way to ensure that the autoinstall software of one of SMC's network boards works properly is to put it in a system which does not have PLUG_N_PLAY capability and then ensure it's the only card other than the controller and video board. That will tell you right away whether it's jumpered/set-up the way you thought, and it will allow you to fix it provided you're not trying to program a conflict of either address space or interrupt. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 9:39 AM Subject: Re: OT request: need SIIG and SMC network drivers >On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Francois wrote: > >> I sometimes found cards that did not work and were impossible to configure >> though EZSTART or whatever the utility is, it would tell me that there was >> no NIC in the computer. In that case I always had to toss the card and try a >> new one. > >Darn, I was hopeing you were going to pass on some wisdom as to how to get >the card working again. I'm getting the same symptoms, so I guess its >time to toss the card and try a new one. > >Thanks for the help, All. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 05/25/99] >

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

OT request: need SIIG and SMC network drivers

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Damn, the only two ISA network cards I can find and can't get drivers for niether. What a pain in the arse. I've got a SIIG network card with the driver RETH.COM (ODI driver for Netware) but for the life of me can't figure out how to pass in the IO address and IRQ parameters. Siig's website makes no mention of their network cards oddly (rather stupidly) enough. I've got an SMC Ether EZ 10Mbps but can't find the proper Netware ODI driver for it on their stupid website. Can anyone help? Thanks in advance. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

26 years, 10 months

3
6
0 0

OT request: need SIIG and SMC network drivers

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Hi, Sellam. On Jun 11, 17:09, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Subject: OT request: need SIIG and SMC network drivers > > I've got an SMC Ether EZ 10Mbps but can't find the proper Netware > ODI driver for it on their stupid website. > > Can anyone help? Thanks in advance. I've got an SMC SuperDisk 2.1 disk (3.5" 1.44MB) EtherEZ driver disk that came with a card. It's dated 4/8/95. It would take ages to get there by post, but I can zip up the contents and put them on my website if you still need it... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Anyone collecting Harris Systems

by go＠ao.com

I've got a source listing of some version "toward the end of its life" of the Vulcan kernel. Harris "wooed" me once (long ago in a...) and let me keep a listing to have some light reading back on the plane. But I have no manuals... Perhaps a copy-swap? (The source listing is a pretty thick binder, though...) (No way I would ever live in Ft. Laud.) Gary At 09:43 PM 6/11/99 -0700, you wrote: >I've still got a Vulcan manual around somewhere for the S200/7. > >I worked with SN#3 at OIT back in the early 80's... >(You know... The dark times!) > >George > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor Jr. george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com >United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > >On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Out of curiousity does anyone have a Harris H-500 preserved in their >> collection? I was thinking about this today, I've not seen anything on any >> Harris Mini's. This was the first real computer that I used/worked on. >> >> Zane >> | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >> | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >> | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >> | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >> | and Zane's Computer Museum. | >> | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | >>

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Televideo TS-806/20

by bobcaar＠cyberdude.com

Wait never mind..it's up and running now after a few power cycles....and I'm backing up everything to my pc. Thanks to All, I WILL be asking more later... T.H.x. Devon >I hadn't known thats what they were for (winch)...If I ever get some, I bet I can rig something up. After fiddling around some more (thanks for the info, all), I've got it to work...kind of...When it starts it now says "System IPL from Hard disk in progress". Then no more... I know the disk booted before ...I could type garbage back when I was getting garbage (about 4 times before it quit)... It would be great if you could send me a boot disk... Televideo hasn't replied to my e-mails yet...I'll give them a few more days.. > > T.H.x. > Devon >

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Televideo TS-806/20

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, I'm not sure I agree about the relative importance of cables with which to interface a hard disk. That's probably the one thing that makes a computer compute fast enough to be useful. First of all I'd try 9600 baud before anything else, since I believe that's the default. I don't remember what the board switches do, but I can hunt around for the manual and get back to you. I wouldn't use PCAW, as a terminal, myself. I haven't had good luck with it. How about Hyperterminal of Procomm. I've used both of those in connection with a PC and had better luck than with PCAW, though I've had good luck using PCAW for file transfers, etc. This box was ostensibly a file server and probably contains VERY important software, e.g. the MMMost (or whatever it was called) network OS, which isn't around any longer. This box is capable of serving as a single-user system, but if you still have the HDD, from which it should boot all by itself if it hasn't been roached up, you might want to preserve it. Well you're in luck . . . I got a phone interruption after which I thought of a place to look for the manual...Oddly enough, that's where it was. The manual says the "upper" four bits of the dip switch is used for baud rate settings. The lower four bits (5,6,7,8) are unused except for position 8 which is reserved for diagnostics. Obviously, the one who wrote this manual was on drugs. A closed switch is a zero. The baud rates go from 19.2K down to 75, with ascending values from 0000 to 1000, remembering that a 0 means CLOSED. Switch 1 is the lsb. I hope that helps you get it going! If you need a boot diskette, maybe I can help you there as well. Televideo, by the way, is still in business, so it's not inconceivable they might be able to help too, if you ask them. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Televideo TS-806/20 >I don't have the cables for the winch (control) or winch (data) ports >although I have a board for them...they aren't important, I just thought >I'd mention that. I don't have a (working) terminal right now, so I tried >it with my pc (via serial port & pcAnywhere emulation of TVI 925 @ 75 to >1200 baud settings, n&e&o parity, 4 - 8 data, and 1 stop). With any of the >settings, I get garbage on the screen. I would like to get it to work with >my pc. Any help in those settings in particular would be great. I noticed >8 dip switches on the main board. Do you know what they are for? > > T.H.x. > Devon > > >At 09:35 PM 10/06/1999 -0600, you wrote: >>I use a TVI 925 with mine. I suppose it's possible to set it up for >>something else, and perhaps that's what's happened. >>I think my TVI is set for n-8-1. When you say no cables or conntectors, do >>you mean for the internal HDD, or do you mean you have two HDC's? >> >>What software is it you think you're missing? >> >>Dick >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 8:38 PM >>Subject: Televideo TS-806/20 >> >> >>>Hello, >>> >>> Can anyone help me with Televideo TS-806/20 information? In particular >>>some info on a terminal emulation that will work with it. Currently, I get >>>garbage with it hooked up to my pc (using pcAnywhere emulation of Televideo >>>912, 920, 925, ANSI, or X3270/Televideo). The garbage is alway the same >>>each boot. Also info on parity, data bits, stops would be handy. It's a >>>1981 Z80 based system with a 5 1/4 DS?D Floppy and MFM hard drive. It also >>>has 6 user, centronics printer, serial, winch (data), winch (control) ports >>>(no cables or connectors for the last 2 but there is a board). I don't >>>have the manuals or any software for it. >>> >>> T.H.x. >>> Devon >>> >> >> >

26 years, 10 months

2
1
0 0

Spring CP/M-UG (Oregon) Swapmeet coming up!

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Just so you can't say I never tell you people anything... B^} ---------- Yes, Once Again.... It's time for the... Grand Floral Swapmeet Who: CP/Mug. (yeah, we're still here.) What: Computers, Audio, Video, High-Tech, Low-Tech, etc. When: Saturday, June 12, 1999, 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM. Where: Tigard Senior Center in Tigard. 8815 SW Omara Tigard, OR Admission: FREE! Rules: There are no rules, except no leaving things. (NO Garbage Service!) Fees: There are no fees, except we'll beg. Reservations: There are no reservations. Setup: Starts at 8:00 AM. Be early for best position, NO reservations!. Bring a table, if you have one. Bring a ground cloth if it's sunny, and display on the lawn. Tailgating is encouraged and quite effective. Sales: Starts at 8:00 AM. Be early for the best deals, volunteer to help shlep the stuff. Whimper, Whine, etc.. Feel free to denigrate vendors tawdry wares... Shutdown: Doors get locked at 2:00 PM. Contact: Gary at Oregon Electronics, 503-239-5293 -- Gary Grossoehme - GaryG4430 "at" aol "dot" com Oregon Electronics - 503-239-5293 935 NE Couch St. - Computer Cable Specialists Portland, Oregon - Member: AfterBurner Fan Club. ---------- -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!

26 years, 10 months

3
3
0 0

DEC Docs

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

OKay VMS fans . . . I have a couple of documents I don't need: RA90/92 Users manual - Mangled, but readable, there is a little useful information here. VMS Liscense PAK's - Various liscence docs for VAX/VMS, TCP/IP, DECNET & DW-MOTIF. According to the Fine Print (tm), "This document does not constitute a liscence" >:^P Okay, okay, so its worthless, but maybe somebody out there would it as a conversation piece. They got wet at one time, so they're not even close to mint, but hey, they're the genuine article! Either one for the cost of mailing it! Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Televideo TS-806/20

by edick＠idcomm.com

I use a TVI 925 with mine. I suppose it's possible to set it up for something else, and perhaps that's what's happened. I think my TVI is set for n-8-1. When you say no cables or conntectors, do you mean for the internal HDD, or do you mean you have two HDC's? What software is it you think you're missing? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Devon <bobcaar(a)cyberdude.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 8:38 PM Subject: Televideo TS-806/20 >Hello, > > Can anyone help me with Televideo TS-806/20 information? In particular >some info on a terminal emulation that will work with it. Currently, I get >garbage with it hooked up to my pc (using pcAnywhere emulation of Televideo >912, 920, 925, ANSI, or X3270/Televideo). The garbage is alway the same >each boot. Also info on parity, data bits, stops would be handy. It's a >1981 Z80 based system with a 5 1/4 DS?D Floppy and MFM hard drive. It also >has 6 user, centronics printer, serial, winch (data), winch (control) ports >(no cables or connectors for the last 2 but there is a board). I don't >have the manuals or any software for it. > > T.H.x. > Devon >

26 years, 10 months

3
3
0 0

Need help with rescue in Richardson, Texas

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hello all you ten gallon hat wearing mo-fo's. I've got a rather large rescue on my hands in Richardson, Texas. A company there is donating a half ton of computers to the VCF and has about a half ton more of varied interesting systems that they'd like to get rid of. If anyone is in the greater Dallas area and can lend a hand sometime next week with transporting 14 large boxes of stuff to the airport then please contact me via private e-mail. You will probably go away with something to add to your own collection. I'll give you more details when you e-mail me. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

VAX 11/750!!!!

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

Hi all, My VAX 11/750 finally arrived from TN (yeah!!!), and I am just starting to sort through what I received... Perhaps this weekend I will get it powered up (though I will have to insure my hottub doesn't start at the same time and blow the main breaker :) Are there suggestions from listland on procedure for powering up and running the diagnostics? I have a box of tapes but I don't know what they all are or do... Does anyone have boards/documentation/fiche/printsets they would be willing to give/sell/trade/loan to me? Contact me off-list, perhaps I have stuff you are interested in also (I got a stack of spare boards that I don't think I need)... Thanks, clint (the proud owner of a KW/KIPS computer!!!

26 years, 10 months

3
2
0 0

SABER 500 (SCSI)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Seagate probably describes these on their web site, else check www.theref.com. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey l Kaneko <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 11:50 AM Subject: SABER 500 (SCSI) >Guys: > >I have a CDC SABER 500Mb drive. >Does anybody know how to set SCSI parity on this thing? >Does anybody have the dip switch settings? > >Thanks! > > >Jeff >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 10 months

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SABER 500 (SCSI)

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: I have a CDC SABER 500Mb drive. Does anybody know how to set SCSI parity on this thing? Does anybody have the dip switch settings? Thanks! Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 10 months

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Trojan Heads-Up

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

For all you Windblows leading edge people here's a heads-up. Course if you use reliable, proven technology it doesn't apply. :^) ciao larry ------------------------------------------------------------------- before you open any attachmentes, Here is part of the info on a new virus that replicates and sends messages, as well as destroying material on your hard drive. More at the Carnegie Mellon site: http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-99-06-explorezip.html CERTr Advisory CA-99-06 ExploreZip Trojan Horse Program Original issue date: Thursday June 10, 1999 Source: CERT/CC Systems Affected Machines running Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows NT. Any mail handling system could experience performance problems or a denial of service as a result of the propagation of this Trojan horse program. Overview The CERT Coordination Center continues to receive reports and inquiries regarding various forms of malicious executable files that are propagated as file attachments in electronic mail. Most recently, the CERT/CC has received reports of sites affected by ExploreZip, a Windows Trojan horse program. I. Description The CERT/CC has received reports of a Trojan horse program that is propagating in email attachments. This program is called ExploreZip. The number and variety of reports we have received indicate that this has the potential to be a widespread attack affecting a variety of sites. Our analysis indicates that this Trojan horse program requires the victim to run the attached zipped_files.exe program in order install a copy of itself and enable propagation. Based on reports we have received, systems running Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows NT are the target platforms for this Trojan horse program. It is possible that under some mailer configurations, a user might automatically open a malicious file received in the form of an email attachment. This program is not known to exploit any new vulnerabilities. While the primary transport mechanism of this program is via email, any way of transferring files can also propagate the program. The ExploreZip Trojan horse has been propagated in the form of email messages containing the file zipped_files.exe as an attachment. The body of the email message usually appears to come from a known email correspondent, and may contain the following text: I received your email and I shall send you a reply ASAP. Till then, take a look at the attached zipped docs. The subject line of the message may not be predictable and may appear to be sent in reply to previous email. Opening the zipped_files.exe file causes the program to execute. At this time, there is conflicting information about the exact actions taken by zipped_files.exe when executed. One possible reason for conflicting information may be that there are multiple variations of the program being propagated, although we have not confirmed this one way or the other. Currently, we have the following general information on actions taken by the program. The program searches local and networked drives (drive letters C through Z) for specific file types and attempts to erase the contents of the files, leaving a zero byte file. The targets may include Microsoft Office files, such as .doc, .xls, and .ppt, and various source code files, such as .c, .cpp, .h, and .asm. The program propagates by replying to any new email that is received by an infected computer. A copy of zipped_files.exe is attached to the reply message. The program creates an entry in the Windows 95/98 WIN.INI file: run=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Explore.exe On Windows NT systems, an entry is made in the system registry: [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows] run = "c:\winnt\system32\explore.exe" The program creates a file called explore.exe in the following locations: Windows 95/98 - c:\windows\system\explore.exe Windows NT - c:\winnt\system32\explore.exe This file is a copy of the zipped_files.exe Trojan horse, and the file size is 210432 bytes. MD5 (Explore.exe) = 0e10993050e5ed199e90f7372259e44b We will update this advisory with more specific information as we are able to confirm details. Please check the CERT/CC web site for the current version containing a complete revision history. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ lwalker(a)interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c(a)xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C

26 years, 10 months

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Disk Drive Documents

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 Scott Ware wrote: > CCITT G4 TIFF is itself a reasonable format for storing scanned > documentation. The PDP-8 manuals available from Kevin McQuiggin's site in > G4 TIFF format are surprisingly small for good quality 300 dpi monochrome > documents. Unfortunately, XV, Gimp, and ImageMagick display do not > include support for multipage G4 TIFF files. The ImageMagick 'convert' > command line utility can be used to convert G4 TIFF files into (much > larger) PostScript files for viewing and printing, and both Paint Shop Pro > (under Windows) and Graphic Converter (on the Mac) supposedly have G4 TIFF > support. If you get hold of the free libtiff distribution (which BTW, I believe XV, Gimp & ImageMagick use for their TIFF support), compile the tiffsplit program. This takes a multi-page TIFF file, and outputs a single TIFF file for each page. Tiffsplit works fine, and even I managed to compile it, which is saying something. For Windows 95/98/NT users, the Imaging program supplied with the operating system understands multi-page TIFF. (The libtiff package is/used to be at ftp.sgi.com) -- Mark

26 years, 10 months

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Visual computer

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I have an old Visual (brand name) computer. It's a huge laptop with a flip up screen that looks like it only shows about 12 lines. It looks like an IBM laptop but much bigger. Does anyone have any links to info on this beast? I tried to search the net but all the links that I find are for Visual C and that kind of crap. Joe

26 years, 10 months

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RL02 Help

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

John wrote: > I have two RL11 cards, one RL11 -> RL02 cable and connectors, and >nine (9) RL02 drives. You should also have at least one RL cable terminator, too! Small hint for those needing more RL11-ribbon-cable-to-RL02-round cable adapters: you can make two of these from each busted RL02 drive you have! Bill suggested: >Been a long time, but it sounds to me like the cable on the RL11 >may be reversed at the transition block. I, too, suspect a possible cabling problem. >I'd flip it. I don't think it does any harm. I can guarantee that it won't do any harm. Indeed, I do my RL cabling by such trial-and-error. (Same goes for Pertec formatted tape drive cables... many edge connectors have a polarizing slot in them, but there are several different standards for where the slot goes, making it useless for folks like me with so many different makes and models of Pertec formatted drives!) >One other issue... check the round cable for bent pins. Another question that comes to mind, which may have been answered before: there is a terminator on the back of the RL02 drive, right? It doesn't hurt to open up the terminator and make sure that it really is one! A real RL terminator has a many-legged resistor pack inside it. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 10 months

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RL02 Help

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Thanks to all who have been of great assistance so far. I have two RL11 cards, one RL11 -> RL02 cable and connectors, and nine (9) RL02 drives. Tonite, in the 11/44, I have tried unsuccessfully to get an RL02 to at least function properly. I have an RL01 installation and operator's guide, and the RL01/02 Pocket Service Guide (in case the pocket in the drive goes bad...) I have tried both cards... the machine seems to be happy, and the Emulex 1/2" card in the next SPC slot makes the Kennedy do it's thing, with either RL11 card in the system. I have traced, by hand, the cables from the RL11 Berg to the RL02 cable transition header, and unless I'm missing something really subtle.. it looks like the book sez it should look. I have tested the power supplies of both the RL0s I have currently in the rack. Voltages are in spec. I do not have sufficient Unibus card extenders to test a hex-height module up out of the frame. [NOTE: Will be very happy to buy one more dual-height extender, or a complete hex one.] Both drives act like there is no clock coming from the RL11.. the Fault and Ready lights are on and the drive does not spin up when the Load button is pushed. If I open the drive and jumper the appropriate points, the spindle does come up to speed, tho the heads never extend. Before I get into a long, frustrating troubleshooting session, I would like some possible opinions from perhaps someone who has more experience with the RL02 system than I do. These units were originally connected to my 11/34, and they *used* to work there, however I have never had them run successfully here at home. The Deal: If someone (Tim? Allison? Megan?) would be interested, I have a toll-free 888 number (for my home business)... maybe on a weekend we could do a little phone consulting while I have access to the running system. I have plenty o' test gear, lots of disk packs, etc. I want to *use* the System, not spend the rest of my life endlessly repairing and debugging it. I keep complex electronic systems running all day, many times under 'cannot fail' conditions.... when I finally have a bit of time for playing with the DECs, the thrill of the hunt has been, well, used up... so to speak. I am perfectly willing to cover any charges/expenses/consulting fees involved in trying to get this going... whether or not the diagnostic session(s) result in a working subsystem... at least it might point me down the right road. Any interest? OR: anybody in SoCal wanna come over and play on a weekend? I **really** want to get this off the ground. Then.... RX02s. ThenThen... RK05s.... But I digress. Cheers and Thanks once again to all who have offered help so far.. John

26 years, 10 months

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No subject

by hhacker＠home.com

subscribe classiccmp hhacker(a)home.com

26 years, 10 months

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your mail

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Unfortunately, I think you're still not subscribed! Can you send the same >message to the list software? > >subscribe classiccmp hhacker(a)home.com If you look at the actual body of his message, his "subscribe" line is actually in the middle of a Mime-encoded passage. Could this be confusing the list software? (The HTML-encoded "subscribe" line also being generated by his e-mail software isn't helping, either!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 10 months

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RL02 Help

by mbg＠world.std.com

1) Since it doesn't spin up on its own, check the little rubber doohicky (tecnical term :-) which is mounted in the door and presses the interlock switch... if this is old, it sometimes gets a little soft and the switch doesn't get pressed enough. 2) Check that you've unlocked the heads 3) verify you have a terminator on the last drive 4) check the cabling again -- just in case it was reversed between the RL11 and the transition plate. that's all I can think of right now... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 10 months

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MSCP Manual

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Ok, for any of you ex-digits out there, here's the deal. I've been trying off and on to debug why the MSCP driver in the NetBSD VAX port goes south on me. In order to do this I really need to understand the MSCP protocol, to do that I could use some documentation. I have a very brief treatment in the Webster ESQD manual, but I need the real thing. Let me know off list if you can help out, thanks, --Chuck

26 years, 10 months

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My new toy: HP85

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

Hi all Yesterday evening a friend gave me a new toy. Hp85, which is a strange looking computer. Four slots at the back, and I have five cards to plug in there: 82939A Serial I/F 82940A GP-IO I/F 82903A 16K memory module (8x4116 inside) 82909A 128K memory module (16x4164 inside) 82936A Rom Drawer containing 3 roms, 00085-15001 Mass Storage 00085-15002 Plotter/Printer 00085-15003 Input/Output I havn't powered the thing up yet, but apparently it runs BASIC. It has a printer and what looks like a tape slot. I'm sure one of you can tell me more... :-) Thanks Wouter

26 years, 10 months

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Damn Fine Day!

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I just received an original 8k (7167 bytes free in BASIC) Commodore PET 2001. The one with the cassette deck next to the calculator keyboard. Checked it out and it runs great! Some of the keys are not responding but the owner had added a regular keyboard external to it which seems to be working fine. I tested it with the same program I use to enter into the Pet in the stores when I first saw them: 10 PRINT "BUY AN APPLE II" 20 GOTO 10 Ok, so I was a punk high school student at the time. :-) This came as part of 5 huge boxes of old computer equipment. Including an XOR S-100 CP/M system with lots of software on 8" floppies (including Turbo-PASCAL for CP/M-80), manuals, etc. A TI-99/4A in original box (good shape too), a Bendix Terminal and a Bendix LogicPort. And all just for the cost of shipping. This is cool. The Pet and the CP/M system were the big things for me. I haven't looked at anything other than the Pet yet. Lots to sort through and check out. Also received an Interact computer for shipping cost from someone else. This also with an extra external keyboard hack. I'll get pictures up soon! Computer heaven! :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years, 10 months

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HP7937 (Eagle) discs was HP 9000/840S is alive (sorta)

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Wednesday, June 09, 1999 1:47 PM, Lee Courtney [SMTP:leec@slip.net] wrote: > Hi Steve et al, > > I have several 7937 (HP internal codename Eagle) drives connected to an > HP3000 with 2 still working, 1 dead, 1 limping along. My CE told me that > these drives don't like to be turned off for 'extended' periods of time > as the lubricant for the drive bearings tends to loose its > effectiveness. His advice was to keep em turned on and spun up all the > time - use it or lose it approach. I think mine were decomissioned about 18 months ago. Been running em for a couple of days and they seem to be getting quieter. The spindle bearings in one of them was screaming when I first turned it on but now it's getting better. Of course this doesn't cure the data errors. I probably wouldn't try to get any more of that type unless they're local. Shipping would be pretty expensive on a drive that heavy. The shoebox one's weigh 25 or 30 pounds. They're a lot more reasonable to ship. If nothing else, the cabinet will make a nice coffee table :-) Regards, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 10 months

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HP7937 (Eagle) discs was HP 9000/840S is alive (sorta)

by leec＠slip.net

Hi Steve et al, I have several 7937 (HP internal codename Eagle) drives connected to an HP3000 with 2 still working, 1 dead, 1 limping along. My CE told me that these drives don't like to be turned off for 'extended' periods of time as the lubricant for the drive bearings tends to loose its effectiveness. His advice was to keep em turned on and spun up all the time - use it or lose it approach. HP is pulling the plug this year on the last OS release to support Eagles, so they should start appearing in greater (and cheaper) numbers. I have one customer who bought a truckload for their HP 3000 Series 70 (circa mid-80s) and just toss the drive and wheel in a "good" one when they have a hardware problem, cheaper than HW support from HP. Regards, Lee Courtney President -- Monterey Software Group Inc. Voice: 650-964-7052 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Fax: 650-964-6735 Mountain View, California 94043-1302 Pager: 408-237-1705 Email: leec AT-SIGN slip DOT net http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware Mainframe Network, Session, and Batch Authentication, Audit, and Access Control for Hewlett-Packard 3000 Business Servers

26 years, 10 months

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HP1000 on Ebay

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I took a closer look at that HP1000 on ebay. The guy sent me some better pictures of the unit. Just to let everyone know here, this unit is obviously a highly modified OEM model. There are special non-HP cards in places where there aren't supposed to be any cards - even HP ones. The card cage itself is modified. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but I want to let folks know that the standard HP1000 operating guide may not be much help with that system. Jay West

26 years, 10 months

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HP 9000/840S is alive (sorta)

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> > > > Before I can start the system in multiple user mode, I gotta figure out a > > fail safe way to change the ROOT password. According to the MAN pages, you > > gotta supply the current password if you use the "passwd" command. That > > won't work because I don't know the current password. DOH! > > Actually, most versions of passwd bypass the request for the old password > if you are running them as root. I'd try 'passwd root' and see what happens. > I was able to create a new user through "sam" (HPUX system tool) with ROOT privileges. Unfortunately, I cannot get the system to reboot reliably. Keep getting HD errors. Previously, the system was failing while running FSCK during the boot process. At that point, it would drop me to a shell as ROOT. That's how I was able to get in before. Last night, I ran FSCK manually to fix the problems and it did recover the cylinders on the disk. Now when it is booted, it doesn't fail the FSCK so, it continues and fails at different point. It just keeps looping and saying "error blah, blah, blah, PID 1 killed". Haven't figured out a way around that one, YET! Might be able to pass a parameter while booting that will cause a different boot behaviour? Looks like I'll probably have to reinstall the OS from scratch. I don't think there was any thing on the system that wouldn't be included in the OS installation anyway. I ordered the FREE software upgrade (HPUX 9.0 to HPUX 10) from HP and hope to hear from them in the next few days. I just hope it's on a medium that I can read. I sorta goofed and only ordered a couple of licenses. Originally, the system had 64! I'll let you know what happens. Anyone know where I can HPIB "shoebox" drive for this thing? See Ya, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 10 months

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SW needed for Radius pivot monitor

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I picked up a Radius Pivot Precision Color 17 monitor today with both PC and Mac cables. Does anyone know where I can get software to rotate the picture on the CRT? I've looked all over Radius's site but can't find any. I'm looking for software for both the PC and the Mac. Joe

26 years, 10 months

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SW needed for Radius pivot monitor

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 8 Jun 99 at 19:50, Joe wrote: > Hi, > > I picked up a Radius Pivot Precision Color 17 monitor today with both PC > and Mac cables. Does anyone know where I can get software to rotate the > picture on the CRT? I've looked all over Radius's site but can't find > any. I'm looking for software for both the PC and the Mac. A quick look at ftp://ftp.radius.com throws up *some* of the software for older Radius hardware including Radiusware for NuBus/PCI Mac video cards. A lot of drivers have disappeared recently, including those for Radius Rocket accelerators. Try: ftp://radius.com/radius.mac/ Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

26 years, 10 months

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VAXstation CDROM questions (again)

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

I am quite sure I have some cables here that I got from my DEC surplus bids. Contact me off list with the details of you system and/or the part # you need and I will check for you. I am usually able to get them new for $5 to $15 depending on particular bid. Dan dburrows(a)netpath.net danburrows(a)mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: paul yaskowski <paul(a)paul.dragontear.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 9:28 PM Subject: Re: VAXstation CDROM questions (again) >* Zane H. Healy (healyzh(a)aracnet.com) [06.08.99 21:08]: >> > Here's my question: I have a VAXstation 3100, and i'm interested in >> >upgrading VMS. Currently it runs VMS 5.4. Since the VAX doesn't have >> >a cdrom, and i'm assuming the cost of a DEC CDROM is outrageous (i'm >> >15, give me a break.), I was wondering if there is a way to install >> >from a network CDROM drive. Could I setup my Linux box to share it's >> >CDROM via NFS? Or is there perhaps any software that would allow this? >> >Or am I insane? The questions.. >> >> Find a cheap 3rd party CD-ROM that supports 512-byte blocks, and you'll >> hopefully be able to use it. I've used a 2x Mac CD-ROM, and a 4x Panasonic >> external on my 3100. I've used the same external and a 4x Toshiba on my >> Alpha's. The important thing is it MUST suport 512-byte blocks, most PC >> CD-ROM's support 2048-byte blocks. >> >> I got the 4x Toshiba for $15 used, as a price reference. > > Any idea where I could pick myself up one of those? The CDROM is not >the only price factor that i'm worried about, it's also the external >SCSI cable. I looked at a DEC SCSI cable that will fit into the back >SCSI port, and it cost a mere $95. I'm running a incredibly tight >budget, the story of a teenager's life, and $95 is simply out of the >question. > >-paul > >-- > paul(a)paul.dragontear.org [a paradigm of a paramount failure] >

26 years, 10 months

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HP 9000/840S is alive (sorta)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, most versions of passwd bypass the request for the old password <if you are running them as root. I'd try 'passwd root' and see what happens For ULTRIX you can go Single user and "edit" the password to "" and then the root password is null. The trick however is finding it and dealing with ED. I believe this works with other versions of Unix too. Allison

26 years, 10 months

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VAXstation CDROM questions (again)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Any idea where I could pick myself up one of those? The CDROM is not <the only price factor that i'm worried about, it's also the external <SCSI cable. I looked at a DEC SCSI cable that will fit into the back <SCSI port, and it cost a mere $95. I'm running a incredibly tight <budget, the story of a teenager's life, and $95 is simply out of the <question. Where to get a scsi drive have been covered by others. Since you don't need the drive all the time you don't need the cable either. Here's how. Pop the cover amd locate teh SCSI cable (50pin). The design allowed for several drives internal so plug in to one of those, also pick up power there as it's available. It's ugly, but it works. Allison

26 years, 10 months

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VAXstation CDROM questions (again)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Here's my question: I have a VAXstation 3100, and i'm interested in <upgrading VMS. Currently it runs VMS 5.4. Since the VAX doesn't have <a cdrom, and i'm assuming the cost of a DEC CDROM is outrageous (i'm <15, give me a break.), I was wondering if there is a way to install It does not have to be DEC. IT does have to be SCSI and capable of 512byte blocks. I have an old Toshiba 2x scsi that works ok for this. <from a network CDROM drive. Could I setup my Linux box to share it's <CDROM via NFS? Or is there perhaps any software that would allow this? <Or am I insane? The questions.. Your not insane but, I think the tools to get from Linux NFS(TCPIP) to VMS (VMS networks with DECNET unless you have UCX or CMUIP) files-11 are not there. The real question is why? VMS 5.4 is fine for a standalone system and likely kermit is on the machine and if you real lucky CMUIP, that enough to communicate with the net or other machines. Allison

26 years, 10 months

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HP 9000/840S is alive (sorta)

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> >You might be better off looking for a replacement hard disk unit. There's > >a 'shoebox' sized thing that contains a 300Mbyte ESDI (I think) drive + > >the appropriate HP interface board. I can find the number if Joe doesn't > >beat me to it. > > You're way too slow! Who do you think found this and told Steve about > it? And THEN helped him load it. The ESDI drives are the 7957/7958/7959 > series. They're about 80, 158 and 300 Mb capacity. I think there's a 7957 > on E-OverPay right now. > I've got several of the "showbox" drives with my HP 3000/42 but, don't want to cannibalize that system (I think they're 7963B's). I may have to shop around for another one. Last night I fired up the 9000/840 again and got better results. Seems like the HD is starting to loosen up a little. Could be that the servos were a little sticky from being stored. Every time I start the system, it gets fewer errors. I was able to boot the system in single-user mode and got in as ROOT. I don't know the exact boot sequence because my terminal failed during the process ( cold solder joint in the verticle defelection circuitry). By the time I got it hooked up again, the system had completed booting and I was magically logged in as ROOT. Yipee!!! Before I can start the system in multiple user mode, I gotta figure out a fail safe way to change the ROOT password. According to the MAN pages, you gotta supply the current password if you use the "passwd" command. That won't work because I don't know the current password. DOH! I can think of two possibilities: 1.) Create a new user with ROOT permissions. 2.) Modify the ROOT entry in the /ETC/PASSWORD file. This sounds kinda risky. If the syntax isn't correct, I could really be screwed. If anyone has any better suggestions, I'd like to hear them. In any event, I don't want to risk locking myself out of the system. It looks like there are very few user files on the system (at least on this HD). Mostly what I'm seeing is the HPUX OS installation. Either the files were purged, prior to decommission, or they're on the other HD. Now, I gotta figure out how to mount the other drive. Every time I run the command 'mount' I get an ugly error. When I run it, I can hear the HD seeking and after about 2 minutes, the error message displayed. Gotta feeling this utility is on one of the bad HD sectors. Anyway, things are looking better :-) Catch Ya Later, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 10 months

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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

The problem is with the pictures and diagrams. Now, if you have tools which make this a straightforward task achievable in a day or so for the 5k or so pages ultimately involved, then maybe you're the one for the job, but beware! It's never as simple as it looks. BTW, I don't think GIF is an efficient way to represent LINE ART, which is what generally is involved in illustrations and schematic diagrams. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:08 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >> >> That, in fact, is the case here. I have two laser printers and three >> ink-spitters, and a pen plotter, none of which speak PS. They even require >> different dialects of PCL. There's even an impact printer from the >> DOT-Matrix (for multi-part forms) which doesn't speak either. >> >> The only language common to all my printers is ASCII. All but the TOSHIBA >> Dot-Matrix printer speak HPGL if they're prodded. > >Doesn't that say something? Like use plain ASCII if at all possible :-) > >Actually, Ghostscript should be able to drive (or be modified to drive) >at least one of your printers. And it will read/print at least Level 1 >postscript files. > >-tony >

26 years, 10 months

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cosmac Elf

by dogas＠leading.net

A little free time and a digital camera are a volatile mix... For a pretty Elf, call: http://millennial-concepts.com/dogas/elf.html :) Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 10 months

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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

I ran into this from time to time myself, and, in the case where company politics prevented me from drawing my own, I drew dashed lines around the structural blocks in my diagram. This made the draftsment less prone to rearrange my work. Dashed lines are something many draftsmen really hate. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 5:55 PM Subject: Re[2]: Disk Drive Documents >ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> >> On the other hand, I've seen schematics that have been redrawn by >> draftsmen. They have rearanged the components to make the diagram look >> balanced on the page. The result is that the logical structure of the >> schematic has gone. Figuring out how it works is next-to-impossible. >> > >Hi > I used to hate that when the draftsmen would take my >carefully organized schematics and crunch them down into >an unreadable mess. I had them as logical blocks >because that is the way I thought about the designs. >When the techs on the bench were trouble shooting, >they'd always come to me for the original drawings. >I tried to fight it once but the boss said it >was wasting too much paper ( let me see, a $60K system >couldn't afford $0.20 more paper?? ). >Dwight >

26 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Old bits

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

I received several boxes of old parts, I hope someone might be able to tell me something about them. Hard drives... 1- Seagate ST-251, 3- ST-4384E (94186-383H). 1- Control Data 94166-182 1- Miniscribe 3053 Plug in cards... 5- WDC1985 - WD1003-WA2 These look like they might be HD controllers.(I hope) Several Zenith Data Systems cards, including a cpu card with an 8088. These look as if they may have been a PC Clone built on sort of a backplane. There were about twenty pounds of other cards, but these seem to be the most interesting. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

26 years, 10 months

5
4
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

It looks to me like the format which offers the most hope of providing for users of formats other than PDF is the TIFF output from the scanner. That can be compressed using a commonly available tool like pkzip and it's already pepared in the process of getting from a paper document to PDF. Each page will be more or less as it was scanned, though there may be some noise specks. No extra effort is involved aside from naming and storing each one, then transferring the whole mess to the web site host. If Tony wants to OCR it, he can, if SAM wants to skip the schematics, he can, and pretty much anyone else who wants to do anything else can do that too. Since a typical scanned page in raw bitmap is about 1 MB, though I don't know how much compression can be squeezed out of a page of text or a page of line-art, server capacity may become an issue. However, it may be realistic to reduce the TIF-formatted files to CD, assuming there's a CD available on the web host, and then it can deal with the TIF files. DICK -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >>But, and this applies to text as well, once you've printed them out and >>scanned them back in again, you've lost that structure. The scanner >>produces a bitmap (probably a slightly distorted bitmap as noting is >>perfect). It is _very_ difficult to automatically recover that structure >>(would you like to write a program that analyses a bitmap and finds >>component symbols in it?) > >Such programs do exist, however. Most of the fancy electronics-oriented >CAD packages have "schematic capture" modules. And, of course, such >packages run into the many kilobucks. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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Disk Drive Documents

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>But, and this applies to text as well, once you've printed them out and >scanned them back in again, you've lost that structure. The scanner >produces a bitmap (probably a slightly distorted bitmap as noting is >perfect). It is _very_ difficult to automatically recover that structure >(would you like to write a program that analyses a bitmap and finds >component symbols in it?) Such programs do exist, however. Most of the fancy electronics-oriented CAD packages have "schematic capture" modules. And, of course, such packages run into the many kilobucks. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

Please take a look below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >> The problem with PS is that it's not trivial (or achievable with freeware) >> to display, scale, search, or selectively print portions of it, is it? PDF >> allows all these. True, that's no help if you can't run Acroread. > >Remember that Postscript is a full programming language, and thus often >the only way to figure out what a given file will do is to interpret it. >Even the total number of pages printed by a given file is not easy (or >even possible) to determine without running the postscript program that >the file contains. > >Ghostscript (at least some versions) is free. That's a complete >postscript interpretter for just about any modern OS that will run >postscript programs and output a number of different formats (mostly >bitmapped images of various types, possibly to drive particular printers >(like PCL, some dot matrix, etc)). > >I don't believe postscript is a particularly useful format for something >like this. But I could justify it's more portable than PDF (although you >can do less with it). > > >> Perhaps not the art of the layout, but the order in which things are >> presented certainly can make the different between a very informative and >> easy-to-use document and one which is impenetrable. That doesn't mean it is > >True, but... > >Very often (in my experience) a given diagram (lets say a schematic) >applies to several areas of text in a document (lets say the circuit >description, the set-up instructions, etc). Often this diagram is printed >in a convenient (for the printer) place in the manual (hopefully near one >of the sections that applies to it). But continually flipping through the >manual to relate the diagram with the text is a pain. > >A different point, also to do with layout is : Is it better to provide >text in a platform-specific word processor format (so that the original >fonts and layout is maintained, but some people can't use it) or in plain >ASCII so that everyone can use it, but you won't get the right >fonts/layout all the time. I would argue strongly for the latter (or even >better, some ASCII-based markup language will hopefully allow you to do >both). > >> I don't like those minimal-effort-PDF's which look like faxed documents, >> badly aligned with the page boundaries, and looking like poorly rendered >> dot-matrix images either, but I think it's highly important, for the >> confidence of the user if not out of respect for the originator, to put >> forth a creditable presentation of the original document. Making it barley >> readable means nearly illegible which is nearly worthless. OCR'ing, > >I think you're missing the point... > >IMHO if you're going to simply provide a number of scanned pages (not >OCRed, not editted at all), then you lose a lot of the benefits that PDF >may have over a simple directory of individual scanned pages (which can >be equally well cleaned up, etc to make them legible). In which case you >might as well go back to providing a directory of scanned images which >can be read on many more types of machine. Well, I disagree. The guys who write technical doc's get paid a good deal because they're good at what they do. Most engineers and programmers, though they are excellent at what they do, they don't read, write, and spell very well. That's a stereotype I find very well rooted in reality. Why would I want engineers and programmers to fiddle with writing and illustration done by competent professionals? If they want to fiddle with the context, they can transform the source document in some way into the format they like and edit the result. They shouldn't be allowed to p*ss on the work many of us have learned to use with great success. It's imperative that the documents be clean ( no gratuitous specks, spots, etc, that the lines in the illustrations be straight where they should be, and curved uniformly if they should be, and the white space be white, not speckled) and a precise representation of the document it claims to represent. No gratuitous cartoons, commentary, etc should be included. Neither should anything be omitted. >PDF (may) becomes useful when you have text _as text_, not as scanned >bitmaps. When you have hotlinks in the document to other sections, etc. Frankly, I don't know how text is represented in PDF. Some of these documents have hotlinks, others use a tree at the left of the screen. I'm not sure why there are multiple ways to do navigate. For reasons I've already explained, not at all relating to my preference, though it IS my preference, these doc's will probably turn up in PDF. Whether they are also hammered into a form some of you like better depends on whether you're able to come up with a way to build that way and find someone to do it for you. If it's important to have non-PDF formats available, and I believe it is, then someone has got to build the non-PDF documents. Since places hosting such document collections already support several major formats, I doubt there will a dearth of space for additional formats. I am convinced, however, that, were I not already in possession of these documents, I'd get them in PDF, maybe even put them on a CD if there were enough of them, and use them as I please. >-tony >

26 years, 10 months

3
2
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'll pass on PDF email, thank you very much. I know it's of limited interest to many of the die-hard retrocomputing persons in this interest group, but for your info, if you're interested, the version of the Arcobat Viewer (Acrord32.EXE) which I'm using nearly every day is a nearly totally reflex-operable program which allows me to view, scale, SEARCH, print single-sided, or, with a freebie plug-in, print duplex, which is double-sided in two passes, in full living color . . . the important feature for this discussion being SEARCH. If this were just a bitmap imbedded in a framework of some sort, you wouldn't be able to search for text would you? How do you suppose, in light of what you know, this is done? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner <spc(a)armigeron.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: >> >> Well? . . . now you see why we disagree. This doesn't just extend to you >> and to me, but rather to lots of other people who use documentation >> differently. > > Five months ago we had a similar discussion, this time about what formats >to use when emailing people (started because of complaints about messages in >HTML which were annoying several people on this list, myself included). >Part of the problem, as you state, is that different people have different >needs from documentation, and there are two aspects to documentation (or any >``printed'' material in general): content and presentation, or as Marshall >McLuhan would say, ``message and media.'' Both are important (``the medium >is the message'' anyone?) but for this crowd, it seems that the message >tends to be more important than the medium. > > As an experiement, I downloaded a PDF file (for the record, I have a PDF >viewer for Linux). Can't save the document as text, but I could print it to >a file. So I did that. Ended up with PostScript. Took a look at the >postscript and discovered that what I ended up with was basically a large >bitmap embedded in PostScript. Sure, I also have GhostView, but the output >looks like an okay scan of a rather mediocre photocopy. Nice. > > To be fair, the PDF in question appears to be just that though---an image >encapsulated in PDF. I tried finding a word that I know exists in the >document but oddly enough, the computer couldn't find it. > >> . . . and you'll have to do more than shout to convince me that's (meaning >> the fact every page is a document apart from the one major unit to which it >> belongs) not a big part of why the LINUX doc's are so impenetrably muddled. > > Linux's docs are so impenetrably muddled because programmers in general >don't like writing documentation (``The source is the documentation,'' is >too often the excused used). Heck, there are problems with comments IN THE >SOURCE CODE not being updated, so expecting any external documentation to be >up to date is asking a bit much (not that I like this any). > > -spc (So Richard, want me to start replying to you in PDF format?) >

26 years, 10 months

3
2
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Old bits

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 8, 11:48, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I received several boxes of old parts, I hope someone might be > able to tell me something about them. > > 1- Seagate ST-251 > 3- ST-4384E (94186-383H). > 1- Control Data 94166-182 > 1- Miniscribe 3053 ST-251 is an early 5.25" ST412-style (ie buffered step) 42MB (formatted) MFM drive, 820 cyl, 6 hd, 17 spt, 3600 rpm. ST-4384E is a 319MB (formatted 34 spt, 384MB unformatted) 5.25" ESDI RLL drive, 1412 cyl, 13 hd, 34 spt, 3600 rpm, voice-coil actuated. CDC 94166-182 is an ST4182E, 5.25" 151.8MB (formatted 34spt, 182MB unformatted) ESDI RLL drive, 969 cyl, 9 hd, 34 spt, 3600 rpm, also known as a Wren 3, and sold under the Imprimis brand. Miniscribe 3053 is a 5.25" ST412-style 42MB (formatted) MFM drive, 1024 cyl, 5 hd, 17 spt, I don't have the speed but it's probably 3600 rpm. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 10 months

1
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

We're not in a hurry, yet, so we should look for a format suitable for everyone. The reason document publishers like PDF is that it allows you to view the document, print it, print excerpts, search, and so on, yet doesn't let you extract text from it. Of course, you can output it to PCL, convert the PCL to BMP, convert the BMP to TIF, then run it through an OCR processor to create clear text. The reason I like it is that it allows me to keep the OLD data books I have in my technical library on the shelves gathering dust except when I want information that's not in the new ones. I tolerate that it only works under WINDOWS, and I tolerate that it won't process other file formats, and I tolerate that I can't extract a quote when I need to. It has served me well, though, I have to admit. The problem I see is that since the PDF is so easy to process for the average Win95 user, even though that may not include everyone in this forum, there's a PDF viewer for LINUX, just as there's one for various other *NIX types. I don't know whether ther's one for OS8 or whatever the PDP8 users have, but I see a potential problem when it comes to finding a "better" tool. There may be a tool which YOU like better, for whatever reasons, and there may be one which I like better for whatever reasons I have, but it's unlikely someone will host a site on which we can put this document set in half a dozen different formats. (BTW, there's another manual, now, i.e. the MITSUBISHI 4894, or whatever they called their DS 8" drive back in the late '70's.) As for finding a "home" for this data, I think the "unofficial CP/M site" might be the place, though I've not yet contacted the site owner. Many CP/M-ers will at one time or another need this data. In any case, I'll agree that each of us will have an approach to "using" our computer which may not suit someone else, and those who have a preferred format for openly presented technical data should make their preferences known. The people who actually prepare the data and present it for use will probably have the final say, though and there's no guarantee that I will have any more to say in the final choice than you. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >> >> First of all, let me say that I'm in complete agreement with your notion >> that the doc's don't have to be put out in only one format. It's just that >> I've been so extremely satisfied (ask anyone who knows me and they'll tell >> you that's not easy!) with the PDF for document publication that any other >> way simply hadn't arrived here yet. > >PDFs might be fine for publishing a newly-created document (although I >would still prefer something where I could trivially extract any ascii >text using standard tools), but I don't see the point for a collection of >scanned images. > >> With the Acrord32 program under Win95, you can print the pages you want and >> skip the rest, you can search for specific words and phrases, and you can > >I think this is one of the big differences between how we use our >software. I prefer to have one program to do searching (grep). One to do >formatting (*roff, TeX, etc). Another to handle double-siding, etc. That >way, I aways use the same program from the same task. > >You seem to prefer to have a single program to (say) read .pdfs and do >anything you like to them. > > >> print double-sided whether you have a duplex printer or not. You can >> generate extremely good-looking documents with almost no effort. You just >> can't edit them or such, and that's fine with me. I've seen some truly >> terrible PDF documents, obviously scanned from bad source documents or with >> a really dirty scanner, and not cleaned up as I'd probably be inclined to do >> if any of these documents turned out to be "bad" or difficult to read. The >> ones I've seen which were bad were posted PDF's of CP/M documents which I >> probably ought to be glad I could get in any form. > >This is not the point. Obviously I'd rather have the document poorly >reproduced than not at all. But if a document is only available in a >format that I can't read, it's not going to be a lot of use to me. > >> >> What I would like to avoid, here, is getting in a position where we evaluate >> the product on the basis of the tools used to generate it. I use WIndows95 > >That is not what I am doing... > >However, it is helpful if documents, particularly documents about old >computers, are available to as many people as possible. This may well >mean not using the latest/greatest (proprietry) tools. > >Most people here are technically knowledgeable. All of us would know how to >expand one of the standard archive formats in our OS of choice and print the >individual files it contains. Most of us can install new programs to handle >strange formats -- if they exist. > >> because it's a convenient tool for doing what I do with it. I use DOS where >> it's convenient and when I see a version of, say, LINUX that's got current >> documentation I'll look at it again too, since there are supposed to be some > >Eh? The documentation that comes with linux is an order of magnitude >better (at least) that that which comes with Windows... > >> things that it does very handily as well. I agree about the documentation >> angle, but I don't agree that being free makes a product better. It just > >Sorry, I wasn't clear. When I said (in private e-mail) that I am not >going to pay for the second-best when the best is free, I didn't mean >that linux was better _because_ it's free. I meant that linux happens to >be the best tool that I have yet found for the sort of work that I do. >And the fact that it's free is a bonus. > >Having got the best tool, I sure am not going to pay for something that's >less useful to me... > > >> improves the price-performance comparison factors and helps with motivation >> to try it. I do believe that publishing the scanned documents as completely >> as possible is desirable, so that when you run into that "see figure 8a on >> page ..." you'll have that as well. If you only need to print sheet 14 of >> 39, that's what you should be able to print, not the entire document when > >A .tar.gz of scanned bitmaps allows you to do all that, in a totally >OS-independant way... > > >> If there were a good PCL or PostScript viewer, widely distributed enough > >Ghostview seems to work reasonably to view postscript, and it's available >for most OSes AFAIK. > >But postscript files, especially those of bitmapped images, tend to be _very >large_ files... 10-20 times the size of the equivalent .gif... > >> that a substantial number of potential users would have it at their >> disposal, that would also be useful distribution format. If it could be >> hammered into a Word97 document, that might be a candidate. What's > >No. Word97 (or any other Word) is even worse the pdf. At least there are >pdf viewers for other OSes. And the format is _documented_ somewhere. I >have never seen a full and complete description of a Word file. As far >as I'm concerned, such files are useless... > >[Note : people who e-mail me .doc files without warning normally get a >.dvi file in return. And if they want to know what it is, they can darn >well read Volume B of 'Computers and Typesetting'] > >> important is that a large number of potential users have access to the >> format that's chosen. > >What's important IMHO is that _all_ potential users can have access to >the format. And that means picking a format that is fully documented, one >that can be read on as many computers as possible. > >For text, either plain ascii, or one of the many formatting/markup >languages that uses ascii source with embedded commands (TeX, html, >*roff, etc). That way, you can read it on _anything_, even an ASR33 :-) > >For graphics, one of the many file formats that have proper >documentation. > >> >> Comments and suggestions are welcome! > >The above are just suggestions. There will be no flames from me (although >I will be disapointed if I can't read them) no matter what format the >files appear in (if they appear at all). After all, if you're providing >information, you get to pick how you do it. > >I just feel that cutting off some potential users is a Bad Thing. > >-tony >

26 years, 10 months

5
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11/44 -> RL02 further...

by jpl15＠netcom.com

After writing the last message, I wrenched the machine out of the rack onto a table and found that: Slot 14 had a jumper Slot 13 did not. So after three or four boot-ups with various clip leads installed, I have taught myself that the jumpers are not needed in 13 and 14 if the RL11 and Emulex cards are in them. And: woo-hoo! I have the cards in the slots I wanted them to go in, and the machine boots and runs as normal. Mebbe tonite I'll drag up some RL02s and see if I can get them talking to the RL11. I still am not sure about the driver modules: from whence they come (distribution kit?) and how they get integrated into RSTS. Does one just copy them into the working directory? Does a partial SYSGEN need be done? Are they already there, just hiding? Thanks... John

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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11/44 -> RL11

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello ListFriends... Further along the path of getting RL02s attached to my 11/44 system: Given a stock 11/44 in a KD11-Z minus the CIS and FPP modules: the last two slots, 13 and 14 are SPC slots. In my system, there are two more backplanes installed and in use. Memory slots 11 and 12 are occupied by G7273 double grant cards. As configured [and working fine], slot 13 has the Emulex TC12 (which is a quad-height module), and slot 14 hosts an M9202 bus jumper and a grant continuity card in "D". OK: I want to put an RL11 (hex height) in slot 13 and move the Emulex card to 14. I did this twice... once with the RL11 in 13 and the Emulex out of the box, grant card in it's place... the error message on boot was: ?20 MPC=15 The second try was removing the grant card in 14 and inserting the Emulex therein.. the error message on boot was: ?22 CPU HUNG Restoring the system back to Emu in 13 and grant card in 14 restored the system to normal. I am currently dragging the box out of the rack to check the NPR jumpers, the RL11 doc is pretty specific and clear on what to do... but I have no Emulex docs so I'm kinda lost there. Am I barking up the right tree(s) so far? Bonus question: the system is configured with (3) M5904 MassBuss cards which I am not going to use right now.. if they are removed, other than the grant cards needing to be installed... is this going to cause havoc? Thanks y'all Cheers John

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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**RARE** "Altair-like" HP1000 minicomputer K00L K00L Vintage! <grin>

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Now that's the SECOND time I've seen someone list an HP1000 on Ebay calling it an "Altair-like HP1000". Sheesh! That makes me wretch..... :) Then again, perhaps I should just get a magic marker, write "Altair" on the front of all my HP's, and retire to the bahamas. :) Jay West

26 years, 10 months

7
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GRiD disc mysteries (Was: GRiD 15XX answers!!)

by arfonrg＠texas.net

>> HARD DISK GUYS, explain this: >> I put the GRiD's CONNER CP3104 (100MB drive) in K6 Desktop and I could not >> get DOS to load onto it. I put it in a 486 machine (IDE not EIDE) and DOS >> loaded fine. >> I put a 402Mb Conner drive into thr GRiD and forced the geometry >> using a setup program and I kept getting a BOOT DISK ERROR. WHY????? > >Probably because it was formatted under a different geometry. I would >suggest fdisk'ing the drive (delete and re-create the primary >partition) on whatever computer you want to install it on, then re-format >it under DOS. Nyet! I downloaded the seagate/conner disk utilities and uesd it to zero write and verify the disk using the correct geometery. Then I fdisked and formatted (I did this to both the OEM 100Mb and the replacement 420Mb disc) and loaded DOS. No dice. I can't figure it out. The oddities I noticed were: 1) when I loaded DOS onto the 100Mb drive, the COMMAND.COM and a few other systems files would give me write errors when they were written to the disc. All the other files in the DOS directory went on fine. Note: I was using a K6 with built in IDE controller. Maybe it was the difference between IDE and EIDE? 2) The 420Mb drive took DOS installs from both the K6 machine (EIDE) and my 486 machine (IDE) but, the GRiD wouldn't boot from it. I am clueless about this. ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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Old bits

by edick＠idcomm.com

It looks like you've got a standard WD PC/AT HDC (WD1003-WA3) which will turn out compatible with the Miniscribe 3053 and the ST-251, The big ST drive, the 4384 is an ESDI type more or less equivalent to the MAXTOR 4380E. I believe the CDC (same actual MFG as the Seagate, just the prior owner's label before Seagate acquired them) is about half that size. If I remember corretctly, it's half-height as well. I believe I have several of these, but in non-functional status. Though the interfaces "look" the same, i.e. same cable connectors, DON'T CONNECT THESE ESDI DRIVES to am MFM controller. They won't work. The 3053 is another one I've tossed out/given away. Once they don't work, the application being for MFM and where a relatively small drive goes, I don't usually attempt to fix them. These two are both half height MFM types of about 50+ MB capacity unformatted. Check for precise details on www.theref.com, but IIRC, they have close to 1K cylinders and either 5 or 7 heads. The ESDI drives need an appropriate controller e.g. WD-1007 of any subtype, or even the 1005 or 1009. These are really excellent examples of their type, so I'd hope you can get them going. The WD controllers can deal with the large number of cylinders so that's not a problem. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Fox <foxvideo(a)wincom.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 9:53 AM Subject: Old bits > > > I received several boxes of old parts, I hope someone might be able to >tell me something about them. > > Hard drives... > >1- Seagate ST-251, 3- ST-4384E (94186-383H). >1- Control Data 94166-182 >1- Miniscribe 3053 > > Plug in cards... > >5- WDC1985 - WD1003-WA2 These look like they might be HD controllers.(I >hope) > >Several Zenith Data Systems cards, including a cpu card with an 8088. These >look as if they may have been a PC Clone built on sort of a backplane. > > There were about twenty pounds of other cards, but these seem to be the >most interesting. > > > Regards > > Charlie Fox > > > Charles E. Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada > email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo >

26 years, 10 months

1
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Fw: hp 9000 32M of mem cards free

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

Spotted this on a newsgroup. The usual contact them as I know nothing about it. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Tomato Man <akerson(a)shell.clark.net> Newsgroups: dc.forsale.computers Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 8:04 AM Subject: hp 9000 32M of mem cards free >8 x 4M memory cards for an HP/Apollo 9000 series 400, 425, 433, 400dl, > 375 or 380. Free to good home. Feel free to trade me your equally > worthless stuff for an old PC. > >Cards are 8"x2", 40 chips each, DataRam brand.

26 years, 10 months

1
0
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GRiDCASE 1520 update

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Greetings, I got the (assumed) GRiDCASE 1520 doing something today! In fact, it's running an Apple ][ emulator right now. :) The hard drive was totally hosed. Seized. Dead. On a hunch, I opened up the Toshiba T1200 (which I can't use without appropriate power supply) and extracated its HD. I was happy to see that the Toshiba's drive used the same connector. I guess it's a standard laptop drive. (Isn't it fitting that my very first working laptop was also (more-or-less) the very first laptop? :) ) When I cracked open the outer case, I was even happier to see that the Toshiba's drive was also 20MB and made by JVC. Toshiba's drive: JD3824G01-4 GRiD's drive: JD3824G00-2 I figured they'd be the same drive, but methinks I was wrong. With the Toshiba's drive in place, the GRiD now powers up the drive at the appropriate time, and I guess the drive passes whatever test it needs to pass, and then the GRiD is able to boot from floppy. But I haven't been able to access the HD yet. It just makes unpleasant noises when I try. I don't have the proper SETUP program for the GRiD, but shouldn't FDISK be able to tell me what's there anyway? Or is the busted SETUP possibly the only thing wrong now? Gah! Anyway, the GRiD didn't complain about the clock not being set, even after an hour of being turned off. But the clock also didn't advance in that time. The battery says it's non-rechargable, but I'm still hoping it will recover. :) BTW, what a freaking pain working in the Toshiba is, compared to the GRiD! Plastic framework that goes all over the place, multiple different screw types in annoying places, etc. Getting the case open with no instructions was easier, but once inside it's harder to deal with. Or maybe I'm just used to the GRiDCASE's innards now. :) -- Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

26 years, 10 months

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Disney Sound Source --> A success! Now: Covox Speech Thing

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I just found drivers for the Sound Source today. It turned out that one of the people on my ICQ list also has a Sound Source. I loaded the Win 3.1 drivers in my P70, fired it up, and it works! Now my next 'project'. I have an old Covox Speech Thing that I've had sitting around for quite some time. Just for the heck of it, I plugged it into the parallel port of the P70, fired up the P70, loaded windows, and.... A garbled mess of undefinable static came out of the speaker... I'm guessing that this means that it works, but has nowhere near the capabilities of the Sound Source. I remember that someone had emailed me, saying that they had the drivers for the Speech Thing (I know that Sputter is supposed to drive it, but have no clue how to set it up because I don't know the port address of the parallel port on my SupersPORT...) I lost the email of the person that said they had the drivers (HD crash - *stupid windoze*). Do you remember who you are? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

26 years, 10 months

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HP Sketchpro digitiser

by davhos＠magna.com.au

Can anyone help me with any technical information on HP SketchPro digitiser. Product number 45911B. I have the device but nothing else. Even to know the DIP switch settings would be a big help. Thanks David

26 years, 10 months

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**RARE** "Altair-like" HP1000 minicomputer

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 6/7/99 5:25:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlwest(a)tseinc.com writes: > Geez... I didn't know all machines with switches and > lights had the same architecture <grin>. Who cares about the messy details ... think I'll put a zx81 in a box with a bunch of switches & leds & post it on eBay: *** RARE British prototype computer with 1KB RAM / advanced BASIC built in" *** Should be good for about $200, eh? Regards, Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 10 months

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**RARE** "Altair-like" HP1000 minicomputer K00L K00L Vintage! <grin>

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 07:47 PM 6/7/99 -0700, Charles P. Hobbs wrote: > >Has anyone heard of the HP1000 anyway, at least in a home/hobbyist >context? It looks more like an industrial-type computer to me, something >that would have never seen the inside of most private homes, unlike the >Altair or IMSAI. . . Ok, so call me odd (you would not be the first)... But I have a pair of HP 1000F CPUs (aka HP 2117F). One of the early systems I used in school was a timeshared BASIC system that ran on HP CPUs, so there is a sentimental attachment here. Pictures on my web pages... -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

26 years, 10 months

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ID this PC card

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I picked up an old IBM AT the other day and found a strange card in it. It's a full length card with an 8 bit ISA plug. It has two Burr Brown DAC800P-CBI-V ( D to A?) ICs on it along with a large IC marked TSC 7109CPL. (I have no idea what that one is.) There is also a small flat sealed Yuasa NiCad battery in the top corner of the card. It has 37 pin male connector on the back and it's marked "copyright 1983 MBC". Most of the ICs are dated 1986. It looks like it may be some kind of D to A convertor card. Does anyone know what it is for sure? Joe

26 years, 10 months

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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well? . . . now you see why we disagree. This doesn't just extend to you and to me, but rather to lots of other people who use documentation differently. Consequently there are differing needs which I believe need to be addressed. This won't happen if all we do is trash the other guy's solution. We need to find an adequate accomodation which has the potential, at least, of meeting almost everybody's needs with an increase in work as the scarcity of the need increases. Now, that may still not make you happy, but it will at least try to prevent leaving you, or anyone else high and dry, don't you agree? . . . and you'll have to do more than shout to convince me that's (meaning the fact every page is a document apart from the one major unit to which it belongs) not a big part of why the LINUX doc's are so impenetrably muddled. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:07 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >> >> Now, I don't want to go off chasing another rabbit, but there is one point >> about published documents that I would like to make. That's that I think a >> complete document should be archived as a complete document. Lack of this > >Archived as a complete document != is only one file once unpacked... > >> unity is the reason or at least a majorly contributing factor in why the >> LINUX documentation is so screwed up, out of sync with itself, and out of >> sync with the software to which it applies. If people can fiddle with >> individual pieces of a document in its "library" then it's not long before > >RUBBISH!!!. > >The reason linux documentation is in small pieces is to make it easier to >keep it in sync with the software. > >Look, I rewrite some bit of linux. I also rewrite the appropriate >documentation file (man page or whatever). You download them and install >them. Your on-line manual is now updated to include the changes I made to >the software. > >Otherwise it would be _impossible_ to keep the documentation up to date. > >> it's corrupted. That's a positive feature for the single-document >> indivisible archive approach I prefer. Once you have possession of a copy, >> you're at liberty to fiddle with it all you want, but not at the source. >> >> I spent the better part of a year trying to get complete documents from >> Sunsite and other loci when I had the urge to learn about LINUX. It seemed >> that EVERY PARAGRAPH was a separate file . . . what a PAIN. There I sat, >> 50 computers, 35 TB of storage available half a dozen available DS3's for >> internet traffic, and I had to type one character for every ten I >> downloaded, or so it seemed. >> >> There's got to be a better way. Please tell me what it is. > >Err... Buy a book on unix (Linux includes almost everything you'd expect >to find on a unix system). Buy some of the better books on linux. >Download the archive files of documentation. Download some of the >complete manuals from the LDP. What more do you need? > >-tony >

26 years, 10 months

2
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

I freely admit that I'm not a UNIX expert, or even knowledgable to be dangerous. I've driven vi and grep a few dozen times and installed drivers, etc, and typed 'make' followed by a bit of other text, but the way I use documents, is that I read everything I can about the subject and remember it, largely verbatim, for LONG periods of time. Few people do that, but I'm one. When you do that, the most obvious thing about the subject and about the documentation is the inconsistency in the documentation. I'm a stickler for precise documents. Maybe this is not part of your reality, but it's how the world works for me. I've avoided UNIX for all the years, since I was in college in the VERY early '60's, not that it was an issue back then, and, clearly, though I have had nearly a dozen dedicated machines running it right here, and I don't any more, I've concluded that that's not what I want to study. I don't remember things as well as I did when I was a student, perhaps due to overflow, and maybe I'll do things differently in the future, but that's the approach to documents that I can best grasp, so I've staked that territory out for myself. It doesn't matter to me that few or many people use the information in question. I've had it for 20-25 years in some cases and never even used some of the items myself, but recently, I've seen numerous posts and received inquiries about one or another of these documents. Clearly, someone wants to use them. If you don't need this data, you won't serve anyone by looking it over. If you do, I suppose you'll have to satisfy your curiosity somewhere. The computer where the data's stored won't care, and I won't even know. When I see data available somewhere, I consider whether I want it, and, if so, I find a way . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:10 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: >>I did that, and as you say, they're generally just reductions to CD of the >>published e-docs, except that they're permanently mixed together out of >>logical or chronological sequence, so you can't track progress of a given >>feature set. I wasn't after info on UNIX, I was after info on LINUX. >>However that's not what THIS thread is about. > >If you're already familiar with UNIX, then your point is well taken. If >you're not, and wish to use Linux, you should get familiar. They are >almost the same in many instances as far as user interface is concerned. > >>I'm not sure clumsy is what it is, but it's inherently solvable if not >>elegant. If I can break out parts of the document into PCL, then I can do >>that into POSTSCRIPT as well, and so can you. If the guy down the hall >>can't, he can ask for help. > >I won't be using these docs if they ever are made, so I'll shut up now :) > >--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power >

26 years, 10 months

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**RARE** "Altair-like" HP1000 minicomputer K00L K00L Vintage! <grin>

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

You wrote... >Has anyone heard of the HP1000 anyway, at least in a home/hobbyist >context? It looks more like an industrial-type computer to me, something >that would have never seen the inside of most private homes, unlike the >Altair or IMSAI. . . Er... uh.... yeah, I agree with the above poster ;) HP1000's probably aren't of interest to any collectors, so don't tell anyone if you see one ;) Nope, never heard of the HP1000's ;) Probably just industrial things, never used for general data processing ;) If you ever see one, I wouldn't be interested, but let me know anyway, k? <GRIN> Jay

26 years, 10 months

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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

please see (non-combative) comments embedded below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >> All of this suggests that Word documents are a complete non-starter, and >> however convenient PDF is in some ways, it shouldn't be the *only* format >> provided. I think we're all agreed on that? I'd also submit that >> PostScript is less useful than either. There are few systems that can >> handle PostScript but not PDF; all can handle ASCII+GIF; it can be a real > >Hmm... Well, if it's level 1 postscript you can print it on an old Apple >LW2NT printer, and those are pretty cheap and common now. They're also >dead easy to fix :-). > >Maybe I was being a little biased, as that's the printer(s) I have here, >so I have few problems with postscript. On the other hand, postscript is >hardly suitable as a medium for distributing documents (IMHO). > >Are there really more machines with modern PDF views than ones that can >run ghostscript? I thought that was available for virtually all >modern-ish OSes, and anyway, source is available so porting it should be >possible. The problem with PS is that it's not trivial (or achievable with freeware) to display, scale, search, or selectively print portions of it, is it? PDF allows all these. True, that's no help if you can't run Acroread. >> pain extracting individual pages from PostScript, especially the > >True. I think I was suggesting (but not seriously suggesting) a separate >postscript file for each page. > >> >> PDF is nice because it can preserve the original layout, with diagrams in > >This is great if you're the sort of person who believes layout is more >important than content. It can be a right pain if the user wishes to >alter the layout for whatever reason. Perhaps not the art of the layout, but the order in which things are presented certainly can make the different between a very informative and easy-to-use document and one which is impenetrable. That doesn't mean it is MORE important than the content, but it's important enough. >> the right places etc, but for many purposes having the diagrams separate >> (and viewed in a separate window) is actually a nicer way of working -- > >Agreed... > >Actually, I've just thought of something. > >I have the shop manauls for some old (1960s) Citroen cars. Like all Citroen >products, these manuals are unconventional. > >You open them in landscape format. The top part is then a 'book' of >diagrams (only). The bottom part is the text, which refers to the >diagrams by number. > >Actually, this is _extremely_ convenient when you're working. You can >keep a particular diagram open while you read the text that goes with it. >Or turn up a different, but related, diagram. > >The same thing could apply to computer manuals. How many times have you >found yourself flipping between a circuit description and the schematic. >I suspect that's one reason why DEC used to publish the printset >(schematics) and maintenance manual (description) as separate books. >Many times I've wanted to keep both open at once. > >One other thing to consider. Given separate text and diagrams, it's easy >to (automatically) combine them into one document. It's much harder to >separate them again. > >[...] > >> There are plenty of document formats that don't keep everything in one >> file. Why should that be a requirement? There are probably more systems > >In fact whenever I've written a large document, I've always split it up >into separate files. Makes it a lot easier to manage (like splitting up >source code into separate files, I guess). > >[PDF] > >> [1] unless I discover that the "text" within it isn't OCRed or typed, but >> scanned bitmaps, in which case I'll likely throw it away again. > >YES!. A PDF file shouldn't be used as a way of grouping a number of >single-page bitmaps together. > >-tony > I don't like those minimal-effort-PDF's which look like faxed documents, badly aligned with the page boundaries, and looking like poorly rendered dot-matrix images either, but I think it's highly important, for the confidence of the user if not out of respect for the originator, to put forth a creditable presentation of the original document. Making it barley readable means nearly illegible which is nearly worthless. OCR'ing, however, invites editing, reformatting, and other sins, which , out of respect for the document's originator, and probably still owner, should be avoided. Besides, having what is, for all intent and purpose a complete de-facto facsimile (not fax) of the document in question as opposed to an edited and possibly corrupted copy is a great confidence builder the third day you're trying to effect a repair in which you NEED the document. That's another reason to make the file monolithic in my view.

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

That, in fact, is the case here. I have two laser printers and three ink-spitters, and a pen plotter, none of which speak PS. They even require different dialects of PCL. There's even an impact printer from the DOT-Matrix (for multi-part forms) which doesn't speak either. The only language common to all my printers is ASCII. All but the TOSHIBA Dot-Matrix printer speak HPGL if they're prodded. How can the needs of the many be met without disabling resolution of the needs of the few, and vice-versa? Who will do the work? From which of several source formats? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >On Jun 7, 18:30, Max Eskin wrote: >> I recommend PostScript at least as an option, since it's inside every >> laser printer and many inkjets. > >obNitPick: My laserprinter doesn't have PostScript, only PCL. Lots of >lasers don't, and not many inkjets, at least in my experience. I drive my >laserjet from a PostScript raster engine (not Ghostscript) running on one >of my unix machines. > > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

Now, I don't want to go off chasing another rabbit, but there is one point about published documents that I would like to make. That's that I think a complete document should be archived as a complete document. Lack of this unity is the reason or at least a majorly contributing factor in why the LINUX documentation is so screwed up, out of sync with itself, and out of sync with the software to which it applies. If people can fiddle with individual pieces of a document in its "library" then it's not long before it's corrupted. That's a positive feature for the single-document indivisible archive approach I prefer. Once you have possession of a copy, you're at liberty to fiddle with it all you want, but not at the source. I spent the better part of a year trying to get complete documents from Sunsite and other loci when I had the urge to learn about LINUX. It seemed that EVERY PARAGRAPH was a separate file . . . what a PAIN. There I sat, 50 computers, 35 TB of storage available half a dozen available DS3's for internet traffic, and I had to type one character for every ten I downloaded, or so it seemed. There's got to be a better way. Please tell me what it is. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >I'll respond to several parts of this thread at once... > >>> >will serve everyone. In this case, that means plain ASCII for the text. >>> >For the images or graphics, that's a bit trickier, but GIF format is about >>> >the widest deployed graphics format out there. > >I recommend PostScript at least as an option, since it's inside every >laser printer and many inkjets. If the system can display GIFs, it's >probably capable of displaying most modern formats. If it can't, the GIF >file likely would have to be converted to PS for printing anyway. > >>> Well, I don't, and for the reason that lowest common denominator means the >>> lowest efficiency for the most people. I want to make it easy and >>> accessible to as many people as possible. Based on statistics, that means > >It's not about 'many people' at all. You're catering to a technical >audience that is capable of making sense of the datasheets. > >>> that the only OS that really matters is . . . now say it along with me . . > >How many shares of MICROS~1 stock do you own? > >>> As far as I'm concerned, what's most important is that the documents be >>> stored as complete, separate, and single files. They should not be broken >>> up into pages or chapters or text in one part and graphics in another in the > >Why is that? If necessary, they can be put together with tar or PKZIP >(though you probably are only familiar with WinZip). If you're after >neatness, don't bother. Again, an audience that knows what to do with >datasheets can figure it out. > >>A PDF file can't change that. If you want to re-draw all the images in >>some CAD system, go ahead. But if you're just going to scan them, all you >>end up with is bitmaps, no matter what file format you eventually store >>them in. > >If it's a circuit schematic, it may be possible to design a program to >interpret the bitmap and make an object-oriented graphics file (or use an >existing one - Photoshop-like programs may have the proper filters). > >--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power >

26 years, 10 months

3
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

First of all, I don't know much about publication formats for documents to be published. I do know that Acrobat format is VERY convenient for the folks who publish documents. It's much more compact, of course, if the graphics are reduced in density, from 2780 or whatever DPI they use in the printing trade, but in general it's something they put out because it's relatively cheap and easy for the publisher. Of course it can be quite involved and still be cheap and easy when compared with distributing 100k physical data books, 15-40 volumes, averaging 800 pages each or some such. That's why they so happily put the PDF's on a CD and give that away instead of the 250 lbs of books. Having said that, I've scanned and reproduced, even edited quite a bit of graphic material, and, having been raised by a parent who worked in the printing industry for 40+ years, and having worked there myself a bit, I am not completely out of touch with what has to happen to create a distributable file. It's just the needs of the "right" people that elude me. I've got equipment/software to read and utilize PDF. I can view and process other types of files to lesser extent, but I guess that still makes it possible. I don't know how to search for a text string in PCL or PostScript, nor do I want to learn, since nobody seems to want to do that either. I've already got what I need, in that I own the documents, so I don't need to distribute them. I just know what a pain it is to have to fix an XYZ 320 when you don't have doc's to show you the way. For that reason I'm willing to make my materials available. I've even found a web site which will host these files in a location where they'll be exposed to many users of "old-time" machines. What's more, PDF is my preferred format mainly because I have already found a volunteer who's got the tools and will apply them to generating the documents in PDF. If someone wants to make them into another format, I suppose the TIFF's which are what many scanners put out as a raw bitmap file, can be made available for OCR or re-editing and re-layout. I'm not likely to do that myself, though. If someone has suggestions as to how the needs of Non-PDF users can be met, Now's the time, I guess . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >Leaving aside some of the vitriol, Sellam, Tony and Dick have made some >valid points about document format. > >These documents and others like them are of interest mainly to people who >collect old machines; whether there are more Windows users who die every >day than there are users of computer systems desiring but inherently unable >to view PDF files is totally irrelevant -- the vast majority of those >Windows users aren't interested in these documents. On the other hand, >there are lots of people like us who use classic machines day-to-day. For >example, until recently, the machine I used most often was an Acorn >Archimedes. It certainly has graphics and comms capabilities, but it can't >view PDF. (There is now a viewer, but it's too big, too slow, and too >restricted to be useful on my Arc). Even now, I don't use Windows, and I >know many other users who don't. There are several UNIX OSs out there that >don't have PDF viewers, and a few that only run old versions of Acroread >(there was a lot of complaining about a year ago that AIX didn't have a PDF >viewer). Furthermore, I'm sure that many enthusiasts might well use the >internet, say at work, to download "stuff", that then gets copied for use >on a classic machine elsewhere. Finally, as far as machines are concerned, >not all of them can use cheap large-capacity hard drives, so size *is* an >issue. > >All of this suggests that Word documents are a complete non-starter, and >however convenient PDF is in some ways, it shouldn't be the *only* format >provided. I think we're all agreed on that? I'd also submit that >PostScript is less useful than either. There are few systems that can >handle PostScript but not PDF; all can handle ASCII+GIF; it can be a real >pain extracting individual pages from PostScript, especially the >almost-DSC-compliant PS produced by Microsloth. Even printing it can be >problematic. > >PDF is nice because it can preserve the original layout, with diagrams in >the right places etc, but for many purposes having the diagrams separate >(and viewed in a separate window) is actually a nicer way of working -- >depending on purpose and personal preference. For the latter scheme, >there's little wrong with flat ASCII text files and some GIFs. Stream TIFF >might theoretically be better suited to scanned diagrams, but isn't so well >supported as GIF. As for the size of the raster image, it can be scrolled >or scaled on any reasonable graphics system I've ever seen -- and that's >exactly what happens anyway when a scanned image is put in a PDF file and >displayed or printed. If the images are separate, anyone who wants can >print one separately, blown up to the size they want (resolution >permitting) and printed out separately to pin on the wall over the bench. > You can't do that with Acroread. > >There are plenty of document formats that don't keep everything in one >file. Why should that be a requirement? There are probably more systems >that use directories or folders than single files. Tar/zip for >distribution is fine for these. > >As Sellam said, you'll never get a concensus about a single format that all >of the interested parties can access. I don't agree that means you should >use only the lowest common denominator; I think it means you should provide >two (or more) formats. I'll download the PDF if it's available[1], but >I'll surely download the ASCII too. Of course, I'm assuming that one is >more-or-less as easy to produce as the other, if you have the originals. > >[1] unless I discover that the "text" within it isn't OCRed or typed, but >scanned bitmaps, in which case I'll likely throw it away again. > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York

26 years, 10 months

1
0
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

please look at the comments below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: >>I spent the better part of a year trying to get complete documents from >>Sunsite and other loci when I had the urge to learn about LINUX. It seemed >>that EVERY PARAGRAPH was a separate file . . . what a PAIN. There I sat, >>50 computers, 35 TB of storage available half a dozen available DS3's for >>internet traffic, and I had to type one character for every ten I >>downloaded, or so it seemed. >> >>There's got to be a better way. Please tell me what it is. > >Well, you could get a Linux CD or book, which will have all of these for >you. However, I'm not sure which documents you're referring to. I've had >no related problems. There is also another issue, and that is that from >what I've found, the docs are useless 'learning about Linux'. They are >useful if you need command syntax, or if there is some specific thing that >you need to do and documentation exists for it. I found a book called >'UNIX Shell Programming' to be an invaluable resource. I do dislike Linux >books because they are usually either printed versions of the e-docs, or >very superficial. Check your library for a book on UNIX. I did that, and as you say, they're generally just reductions to CD of the published e-docs, except that they're permanently mixed together out of logical or chronological sequence, so you can't track progress of a given feature set. I wasn't after info on UNIX, I was after info on LINUX. However that's not what THIS thread is about. >This, however, has little to do with the disk drive documentation. Nobody >will try to modify it, and since it will be tech manuals, I hardly think >that there will be a dilemma as to which file to download. Your all-in-one >approach does have merits, but as people have said, it's clumsy. A better >choice would be to either tar/zip the files together or simply put all >related files into one directory, so that when one needs to get a manual, >one just does 'get *' at the FTP prompt. I'm not sure clumsy is what it is, but it's inherently solvable if not elegant. If I can break out parts of the document into PCL, then I can do that into POSTSCRIPT as well, and so can you. If the guy down the hall can't, he can ask for help. >--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power >

26 years, 10 months

2
1
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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

There is one other aspect to consider in making a public archive of these documents, and that is that this is not my information, nor is it public domain. So far, no one has mentioned that there is likely still a copyright on the documents. I suppose permission will have to be obtained from the copyright owner. It's likely, since most of these companies, e.g. Seagate, Siemens, Mitsubishi, Xerox (bought Shugart Associates. (?)) are big users of PDF format for some of the reasons previously stated, probably have a preference for PDF. It's too soon to speculate on what these companies will do. Please see my commments embedded below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 9:27 PM Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents >On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> In any case, I'll agree that each of us will have an approach to "using" our >> computer which may not suit someone else, and those who have a preferred >> format for openly presented technical data should make their preferences >> known. The people who actually prepare the data and present it for use will >> probably have the final say, though and there's no guarantee that I will >> have any more to say in the final choice than you. > >Well, I definitely agree with Tony on this. On which point, Sam? >The fact is you're never going to get consensus amongst everyone on what >format the file should be in. So in this case, if the intent is to create >a public archive, you must go with the least common denominator, which >will serve everyone. In this case, that means plain ASCII for the text. >For the images or graphics, that's a bit trickier, but GIF format is about >the widest deployed graphics format out there. Well, I don't, and for the reason that lowest common denominator means the lowest efficiency for the most people. I want to make it easy and accessible to as many people as possible. Based on statistics, that means that the only OS that really matters is . . . now say it along with me . . . I don't anticipate getting complete agreement from everyone. What has to be considered is (1) What do the owners of the data have to say? (2) What are the people willing to do the work willing to do? (3) Where are these documents to be stored and presented to the public and how much space will they allow for this purpose? (4) What will satisfy the needs and preferences of MOST of the people having access to the documents? The weight assigned to the answers will probably be in about this order as well. As far as I'm concerned, what's most important is that the documents be stored as complete, separate, and single files. They should not be broken up into pages or chapters or text in one part and graphics in another in the stupid, Stupid, STUPID way much of the LINUX documentation is published. Further, while GIF format is probably OK for your vacation pictures or the latest centerfold, I don't find it particularly advantageous for presenting line-art drawings because common viewers don't have a standard presentation format for them. They come in a size matched to some raster image and if your display matches it, great, else too bad. Again I prefer the PDF, not only because it is what most people can get and use for free, but because it is a single format useable in common for both text and graphics. >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 05/25/99] >

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