- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<All are very reliable. To your surprise I'm sure. Win9x problems <caused by addons that u don't need and many downloads s/w (recent one W95 is not as robust as Linux however, it can be. I have 4 w95 (all Build 950-C with FAT32) print servers and one of they is also a DOCument server along with the 3 w/Nt3.51 servers. Down time is near zero (power failure caused last down time). However the hardware is all very tried and proven Pent 133s and 166s and updated device drivers. Heck the Domain and mail server is a 486dx/100! Junk apps will however kill you. Way to little ram, 32mb is enough though. What will really kill you is if there is not enough space on the disk, between temporaries and swap space I've seen systems go unstable with 100mb of free space. Also failing to install updates and service packs doesn't help any. I happen to really dislike MS and their products but they can and do work. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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Altair 8800bt, IMSAIs, and friends looking for a good home

by wts＠exo.com

Hello, Today I met a gentleman in Orange, CA that had the good fortune to acquire an 8800bt, three IMSAIs, a couple IMSAI floppy cabinets, and a few S100 boards. He also has a MITS hard disk drive and controller. The equipment may end up on ebay, however I thought you might like an opportunity to make him an offer he can't resist. Here is his contact information: Bob Muse Machine-Tech Engineering Orange, CA 714-633-2960 mtebob(a)earthlink.net Regards, Tom Sanderson Virtual Altair Museum

25 years, 10 months

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OT: Quick Q about uploading to website.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< For C, you can't beat _The C Programming Language_ by Kernighan and <Ritchie (creators of the C langauge). It covers the entire language and <does include exercises to work on. It is perhaps the best book on C. I have that and the original Bell labs report (internal) describing C and the basics of programming with it. Good book K&R did, small too! Allison

25 years, 10 months

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Hamfest goodies..

by a2k＠one.net

I got a few fun bits from the Milford Amateur Radio Club Hamfest today... besides a nice 386 laptop w/ docking station for $20 (which I probably shouldn't mention.. don't think it's over 10.) I also got a TRS-80 model 2 with one floppy drive... my first machine (now sadle departed..) was a model 3. I would like to do something with this machine... just about anything ;) as I don't have any software for it. Any sources? Can a Pc floppy drive read/write TRS-80 disks? And where can I get a serial cable to hook it up to a modem / one of the serial ports on my Linux machine? Thanks, Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" "In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." -- BOFH #3

25 years, 10 months

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Altair 8800bt, IMSAIs, and friends looking for a good home

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

>On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, W. Tom Sanderson wrote: > >> Today I met a gentleman in Orange, CA that had the good fortune to >> acquire an 8800bt, three IMSAIs, a couple IMSAI floppy cabinets, and a > >"Good fortune" being because these are historically significant machines, >or "Good fortune" being because he can whore them on ebay for a quick >buck? > >Pfeh. > >Sellam > What's all the fuss Sellam? Good fortune here probably means precisely that, in the sense of "how many of us had the opportunity to acquire such computers." Lighten up, and as a Canadian I am obligated to say, please. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

25 years, 10 months

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I have some Digital Rainbow 100's For Sale!

by jedsmith＠cyberhighway.net

Okay here is what I have if you are interested in anything here make an offer: Digital Rainbow Keyboards Rainbow Monitors, White, Amber, Green Various Rainbow 100's and 100a's Memory and Memory Cards RX50 Drives RX50 Controller Cards Internal Power Supplys Cables, Including: Monitor, MotherBoard Power, Short RX50 Cable Manuals Rainbow 100 User's Guide Rainbow 100 Owner's Manual Rainbow 100 Getting Started Rainbow 100 Installation Guide Rainbow 100 Memory Board Option and Adapter Installation Guide Rainbow 100 MS-Dos User's Guide Rainbow MS-Dos Getting Started Rainbow MS-Dos Advanced User's Guide Rainbow MS-Dos User's Guide Rainbow MS-Dos Installation Guide Rainbow MS-Dos Version 2.11 Update Documentation Rainbow Memory Board Option Installation Guide Rainbow Color/Graphics Option Installation Guide Rainbow Memory Test Procedure Thanks for looking Jed Smith jedsmith(a)cyberhighway.net

25 years, 10 months

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OT: Internet/AC Power question about University in Cusco, Peru

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I'm going to be spending a month at the university in Cusco, Peru starting June 23. Are there any South American's here that know anything about that university's computing facilities? I'm hoping I'll be able to access the internet from the campus. Also, what is the voltage used in Peru? I assume its 220V? I want to make sure I have a converter for my laptop. Thanks!! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 6/20/99 12:26:19 AM Central Daylight Time, mranalog(a)home.com writes: > > 4) Available from a manufacturer (not just plans in a magazine) > > RCA COSMAC 1802 / ELF / Super ELF > > A RCA COSMAC 1802 is a microprocessor, right? And I still > have not find any evidence that there was a kit for the ELF, > the Popular Electronics ELF was just plans in a magazine. > You could say "ELF II/Super ELF". > It should probably say RCA COSMAC VIP, as I have several of them. Kelly

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by mranalog＠home.com

Kai said: > 1) Collectible Microcomputer (yes, I know the H-11 is on here as an > "honorary" micro) I don?t of anything that would keep an LSI-11 from being called a microcomputer. DEC calls it the first 16 bit microcomputer. I have a DEC brochure that says on the the cover "LSI-11 The Microcomputer Family of the 80?s". > Come to think of it, there were 3 Lobo TRS-80 clones... the LNW-80 > (Mod 1 clone), PMC-80 (Mod 1 clone with built-in tape drive and plastic > case like a Sorcerer), and MAX-80 (Mod 3 clone) Someone already explained the LNW-80, but the PMC-80 and the PMC-81 were built by a company called Personal Micro Computers Inc. of Mountain View, CA. They were sued by Tandy in what maybe the first case of firmware infringement (the keyboard input routine was too similar to the one in the Model I, AFAIK). So their next computer was the 128K CP/M machine, the PMC-101 "MicroMate". http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/mpmc.htm > 4) Available from a manufacturer (not just plans in a magazine) > RCA COSMAC 1802 / ELF / Super ELF A RCA COSMAC 1802 is a microprocessor, right? And I still have not find any evidence that there was a kit for the ELF, the Popular Electronics ELF was just plans in a magazine. You could say "ELF II/Super ELF". The microcomputer that I would add to the list would be the Heathkit ET-18 "Hero 1". It's a 6808 based microcomputer that has some really great interface options. Oh! and it's a portable too. :) --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by edick＠idcomm.com

I know my memory's been failing, but I do believe I read about Alpha Micro back in '77. Was there another model before the AM100? Dick -----Original Message----- From: ss(a)allegro.com <ss(a)allegro.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers >Hi, > >What about the various Alpha Micro systems? Many models fit all >of your criteria. > >The Alpha Micro 100 (circa 1979) > >http://www.eps.ufsc.br/~gio/cmuseum/am100.htm > >Stan

25 years, 10 months

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Companies first computers

by bill＠chipware.com

Here's a request for a list that's a little more objective than the "collectable" list. I'm trying to figure out what the first computer that Ohio Scientific Instruments produced was. What were other companies number one machines? I'll start with the obvious: Apple: Apple I

25 years, 10 months

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Motorola UDS modem....

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I'm located in Economy, about 20 miles North of Pittsburgh, PA. It's about 5 minutes from the Wexford Turnpike on ramp. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Samstag, 19. Juni 1999 09:08 Subject: Re: Motorola UDS modem.... > > 201's are actually pretty common, and inexpensive, on the surplus market. >Where are you located? I'll try and find you another one while I'm on my >scrounging trip. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." >

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 19, 18:03, Chuck McManis wrote: > Sun dropped the bundled compiler (based on pcc from the original BSD > releases) and now ships _no_ compiler with the system. To buy C you buy > SPARCWorks or whatever it is called these days and run the stuuupid license > manager etc. That's about what I thought (and meant, though I guess I didn't express it clearly). Thanks for clarifying it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 19, 12:21, Chuck McManis wrote: > Hmm, I've stayed out of this conversation for now, but Pete is mistaken. I > participate (as much as anyone could) in the decision to drop the C > compiler from SunOS as part of the "BWOS" (acronym for Big Wad Of Stuff). I > argued to keep it, marketing argued to drop it > Basically you could either view it as a competition inspiring move or a > price increase in the base system (since the C compiler was now extra cost) > > It did raise quite a bit of money for Sun but GCC pretty much wiped out the > marginal dollars and the people who buy it now are corporate types and the > hackers have pretty much abandoned the platform. OK, I stand corrected. But I'm not quite sure what you're saying that Sun now offer. Are you saying there's still a bundled compiler (but not a very great one, and probably non-ANSI) and there is also a separate set of relatively expensive compiler tools? I could believe that; we've just ordered something involving Sun, large chunks of money, and the name 'C'. Or are you saying it's not dropped, just not bundled with Solaris? I didn't mean a decent ANSI C compiler didn't exist, merely that it wasn't bundled. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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Aesthetics

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 19, 17:29, LordTyran wrote: > Subject: RE: Aesthetics > > Eh? SGI has made some very groovy-looking stuff! Not just the Indys, but > some machine (I don't remember the name or the model number) has a neat > little waterfall going down the front (after it flows over the > processor(s) on the way to the cooler/heat exchanger/whatever they use. I > saw it from about 30 feet away but couldn't get closer). I'm not sure what that was, but I'd say Indigos (not Indigo2's) are nice, too. But Indys and Indigos fit the "first part of the 1990s" that William mentioned. Indigo2's are just ugly IMHO, and O2s are, well, odd. Don't even think about mentioning the SGI disgusting PCs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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One more..

by a2k＠one.net

I forgot to say that I also got a MaxSpeed VGA MaxStation, which appears to be an X terminal... I'd really like to get this working, but I don't know anything about the power requirements.. it didn't come with a PSU. Anybody know anything about it? Thanks, Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" "In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." -- BOFH #3

25 years, 10 months

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Timex Sinclair 2068

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 6/19/99 1:04:30 AM EST, ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu writes: << The 2068 is even harder to find than the TS1000. (It's just TS1000, not TS ZX1000.) UK people, what was the 2068 a clone of? The Spec +3? >> I'm a Timex/Sinclair collector, and happened to strike up an e-mail conversation with George Grimm, formerly head of Timex Computer Corp. (may it rest in peace). George says the 2068 was a modified clone of the original 48K Spectrum -- the +2, +3 came later. The "modified" bit is what put Timex off the computer business. If Timex had simply changed the RF modulator & power supply to US standards they would have made a buck. Unfortunately (or fortunately, for collectors/users), Timex spent huge amounts of time & money "improving" the Spectrum, thus making it late to market and incompatible with 97% of Spectrum software -- a complete flop in the US market, whereas millions of Spectrums were sold throughout Europe. Third parties soon marketed a Spectrum ROM cartridge which allowed 97% compatibility, but by then Timex had bailed out. Regards, Glen Goodwin

25 years, 10 months

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AT&T 3B2 300

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

On Fri, 4 Jun 1999 03:05:05 GMT, lemay(a)cs.umn.edu said: >Does anyone here have experience with AT&T 3B2 300 hardware/software? >I apparently have a pile of doc and software which is in complete disarray. >The software is all on 5.25" DSDD diskettes, and i'm not even sure if >i have what i need to format and reinstall an operating system. Does >anyone know what type of hard drives these computers support, or know >if the floppy drive can be upgraded to high density? This is going to be tricky. I have a 3B2/400 which seems to work, but I have never dared to do much with it because I do not have any software on tape or floppies at all, only what is on the hard disk. To install or maintain the system, you need a special 'system manager' floppy which has the needed formatter and other tools, and that even until the end of life of the systems was only available from AT&T direct for a stiff price. Even the tcp/ip communications software was an (expensive) option. I don't have it, my machine only has serial ports. BTW, you need special RJ45 to DB25 cables for the serial ports, do you have those? AFAIK the floppy drive in my 3b2 is 80tr dsdd. The hard disk is 70MB MFM. Never heard of other floppy types working. My 3B2 has two hard disks, I don't think more are possible. You should back up the floppies at once, you will have a lot of trouble getting other ones if you damage the ones you have. I think Teledisk will be capable of copying them. comp.sys.att is the newsgroup where the 3B2 fans are. It has a FAQ. Web sites that may be useful (just copied from a list, haven't looked at them) http://cua6.csuohio.edu/~bob/3b2faq.html http://www.apex.net/users/tgoodin/3b2.htm http://www.iserv.net/~retroj/3b2/ ftp://little.nhlink.net/ http://members.aol.com/jitb/stand.htm Be very careful handling the 3B2, mine was very heavy although it didn't seem to be. When I parked it I don't know how many years ago (yikes) where it still is now, I pulled a muscle in my back so bad I had to have four weeks therapy. When I am tired the pain sometimes returns, reminding me yet again that living in a house filled with old computers that need to be moved sometimes to make room for more, may have a few slight disadvantages. That reminds me, the room in the house where the 3B2 is I haven't photographed yet for my web page. Have to dig up the camera again. Good luck, and let the group know if you manage to get the machine to work! Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/ - My Computer Home page http://www.vaxarchive.org/ - Docs for old DEC VAX systems NetTamer 1.08.1 Registered

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 18, 20:22, Allison J Parent wrote: > <But does freeware/shareware count? The original point was that the > <manufacturers don't provide their tools for free as part of the OS; of > <course you can add on any amount of 3rd party free software to virtually > <any OS. > However the shareware/freeware counting part I agree it's questionable > but often there are better out there than from the OS oem. Hmm... sometimes. The Sun C compiler was dropped because it wasn't up to scratch; gcc outperformed it easily. However, the reverse is true for SGI's C compiler for IRIX, which easily outperforms gcc, and for which there are a whole range of development options. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I assume this is sarcasm... the list doesn't have foreign computers on it, for the same reason a list of "Great Italian Sports Cars" wouldn't include the Ford Pinto. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Robert J.M. Edis [mailto:robert.edis@creatcomp.com] Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 2:09 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers I'm sorry, I didn't this was a USA 'only' listserv. Excuse me while I take my dirty foreign hands to remove myself from the list! Great computers did and do exist outside of the USA. Blue PowerHouse consultant Rhode Island, USA Disclaimer: The opinions and ideas expressed in this message are my own and have no relationship to my current employer, Initial Technical Staffing, its client CCI, or any of CCI's clients. -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 5:12 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers Here's the first draft at a list of the Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers (from the U.S.A.). I would have gone for Top 100 but there are just too many great machines, and 200 is too many. It's currently at 133 items. Some related models are combined as one, even though they are rather different... other similar models are kept separate. This is basically just because I personally feel they rate their own separate listing, feel free to disagree. Please add items! Items on the list should meet the following categories: 1) Collectible Microcomputer (yes, I know the H-11 is on here as an "honorary" micro) 3) Sold in the USA 4) Available from a manufacturer (not just plans in a magazine) The list: Altos 586 Altos ACS 8000 APF MP1000 Apple I Apple II Apple II+ Apple II+ Bell & Howell "Black Apple" Apple IIc / IIc Plus Apple IIe / IIe Platinum Apple IIgs / IIgs Woz Limited Edition Apple III Apple III+ Apple Lisa / Macintosh XL Apple Macintosh 128 Apple Macintosh 512K Through SE Apple Macintosh Portable AT&T Unix PC / 3B2 / 7300 Atari 400 Atari 800 Atari XL Series Atari 520ST / 1040ST Atari Portfolio Byte Computers Byt-8 California Computer Systems (CCS) S-100 Coleco ADAM Commodore/MOS Technologies KIM-1 Commodore PET 2001-8 Commodore PET 4032 / 8032 Commodore SuperPET SP9000 Commodore VIC-20 Commodore 64 / 65 Commodore 128 / 128D Commodore C16 / Plus 4 Commodore SX64 Commodore Amiga 1000 Commodore Amiga 500 Compaq Portable PC / Plus / II / III CompuColor II CompuPro S-100 / 8-16 Convergent Technologies WorkSlate Corvus Concept Cromemco C-10 Cromemco System One Cromemco System Three Cromemco Z Series Data General One DEC Rainbow 100 Digital Group Systems Dynalogic Hyperion Epson HX-20 Epson PX-8 Geneva Epson QX-10 & QX-16 Exidy Sorcerer Gimix Franklin ACE 1000 / 1200 Hewlett-Packard HP85 Hewlett-Packard HP150 Heathkit H-8 Heathkit H-11 Heath-Zenith H88/H89 IBM 5100 Personal Computer IBM 5140 PC Convertible IBM 5150 Personal Computer IBM 5160 PC-XT IBM 5170 AT IBM 5155 Portable PC IBM PCjr IBM PS/2 Model 80 IMSAI 8080 IMSAI PCS-80 IMSAI VDP-80 Ithaca Audio InterSystems DPS-1 Intertec SuperBrain Kaypro II Kaypro 4 / 10 Lobo PMC-80 Mattel Aquarius Mindset PC MITS Altair 680 MITS Altair 8800 MITS Altair 8800a MITS Altair 8800b MITS Altair 8800b Turnkey Morrow Decision 1 Morrow Micro Decision Morrow Pivot NEC PC-6001A NEC PC-8001A NEC PC-8201A / PC-5000 North Star Advantage North Star Horizon Ohio Scientific Challenger C1P Ohio Scientific Challenger C4P Ohio Scientific Challenger C3D Osborne 1 Osborne Executive Osborne Vixen Otrona Attache Polymorphic Systems POLY-88 Processor Technology SOL Quasar/Panasonic HK2600TE Hand Held Computer Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 1 Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computers 1-3 Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 2 Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3/4 Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4P Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 12 / 16 / 6000 Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100 / 102 / 200 Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Color Computer MC-10 Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computers RCA COSMAC 1802 / ELF / Super ELF Rockwell AIM-65 Sanyo MBC-1000 Seattle Computer Products 8086 Sharp Pocket Computers PC-1500 / PC-1500A Sinclair ZX80 Sinclair ZX81 / Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 Smoke Signal Broadcasting Chieftain Spectravideo SV-318 / SV-328 Sphere SWTPC (SouthWest Technical Products) 6800 SWTPC (SouthWest Technical Products) 6809 Synertek SYM-1 Texas Instruments TI 99/4A Timex-Sinclair 1500 Timex-Sinclair 2068 Tomy Tutor Vector Graphic Vector-1 Vector Graphic Vector-4 VideoBrain Vtech Laser 128 Xerox 820 Zenith Z-110 / Z-120

25 years, 10 months

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Semi-rescue in Oregon

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

If someone needs a large hit in disk space, there is a DECArray drive rack sitting in the Hillsboro 'Wacky Willys' that has not been torn down for parts (yet). There are two RA-90 drives that I could identify in it, and looks like between four and eight other drives that I could not identify right off. Don't know what the asking price is, but if no one fetches it within a week or so it will probably get torn down. -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

25 years, 10 months

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Aesthetics

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

-----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] Sent: Saturday, June 19, 1999 8:28 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Aesthetics <Has anyone ever put together a list of handsomely designed computers? <Not great runners, not powerful, but just aesthetically pleasing? My <impression is that there probably are not all that many, and that the <first machines to exclude from such a list are the iMac grotesques. Hummm. Well I think form and function are related. My thoughts would suggest... NorthStar* Horizon (wood cover) as a simple but pleasing to the eye design. Kaypro Toteables, very functional and simple. DEC BA123 based machines for simple styling and good mechanical/thermal engineering. Epson PX-8 laptop. small package for its time but not industrial looking. TRS80, TI99, Commodore C64/C128 for evolving the wedge design to the limit. Others, PDP-10 (KA10), PDP12 Allison North Star Horizon (love that wood!) Processor Technology SOL-20 (ditto) Commodore PET (Jerry Anderson couldn't have designed better*) Apple /// (love the way it stacks with the ProFile and monitor ///) IMSAI 8080 (in the movies in those days, REAL computers had flashing lights and switches!) Compucolor II (multicolored keyboard and woodgrain "TV set" case) Atari 800 (nice how the industrial design extends to the external floppy drives) Kai *Jerry Anderson == UFO, Space:1999, Journey to the Far Side of the Sun, etc.

25 years, 10 months

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A couple of Commodore bits

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

-----Original Message----- From: Bill Sheehan [mailto:sheehan@switchboardmail.com] I'd also be curious as to why you consider a particular microcomputer collectible. Certain ones are obvious - the Atari Portfolio was the first palmtop; the Epson HX-20 was the first laptop; and so on. But the qualities of many of these are unknown to me, and I'd love to know more about them. A fair question. OK, let me give a real brief off-the-top-of-my-head summary (remember, it's late at night after a long week, so please don't take issue with me if I space something here) * Altos 586 Popular early multi-user system * Altos ACS 8000 One of the first serious single-board business CP/M boxes * APF MP1000 A notable attempt to build a "gaming computer", rather than just play games on a computer, or add a keyboard to a gaming system. * Apple I * > Apple II Self explanatory * Apple II+ Although the Apple II had more "significance", the II+ was the far better selling machine that most people used. * Apple II+ Bell & Howell "Black Apple" This has a certain cache simply because it's black, and has always been considered a collector piece for Apple afficianados. * Apple IIc / IIc Plus * > Apple IIe / IIe Platinum * > Apple IIgs / IIgs Woz Limited Edition The standard school equipment for years, thus eminently collectible for those who first learned to compute on them. * Apple III * > Apple III+ Apple's first big failure, and always a great story about the tech support solution of dropping it onto a table top to reseat the chips. * Apple Lisa / Macintosh XL The big Xerox-PARC-inspired ancestor to the Mac. * Apple Macintosh 128 1984. The Super Bowl. * Apple Macintosh 512K Through SE Another series with great sentimental attachment for many users * Apple Macintosh Portable Apple's first laptop * AT&T Unix PC / 3B2 / 7300 We may well have all ended up running machines like this if things turned out differently * Atari 400 * > Atari 800 Launched the Atari computer line * Atari XL / XE Series The quintessential "Atari 8-bits" loved by a generation * Atari 520ST / 1040ST Atari goes GUI and tries to compete with the Mac & PC * Atari Portfolio Arguably the first real palmtop computer * Byte Computers Byt-8 Great early S-100 system featured in many magazine ads from the period * California Computer Systems (CCS) S-100 Solid, typical example of serious S-100 business computer * Coleco ADAM A great quirky failure in the computer market from the great games manufacturer * Commodore/MOS Technologies KIM-1 Probably one of the ten most significant machines of all time, this SBC got Commodore into the computer business. * Commodore PET 2001-8 Wonderfully "Century-21" futuristic Apple competitor and ancestor of the C64 * Commodore PET 4032 / 8032 The PET gets a real keyboard and tries to go business * Commodore SuperPET SP9000 A rare example of a machine with two different microprocessors - a 6502 and 6809 * Commodore VIC-20 A huge seller that spawned the C64 * Commodore 64 / 65 Probably the biggest selling computer of all time, in terms of market share at the time * Commodore 128 / 128D The C64 gets serious, runs CP/M * Commodore C16 / Plus 4 I don't care much for these, but Commodore fanatics love 'em * Commodore SX64 The one and only portable Commodore 64, just about the only example of the "second tier" manufacturers building a luggable version of a mainstream machine * Commodore Amiga 1000 First of the line that eventually brought us the Video Toaster. * Commodore Amiga 500 The big selling Amiga that was the first machine for most Amiga lovers * Compaq Portable PC / Plus / II / III The first genuinely IBM PC-compatible portable (possibly the first genuinely IBM PC-compatible machine, period) and the progenitor of one of today's giants of the computer industry, a company that would eclipse IBM itself. * CompuColor II One of the first computers with built-in color; a wonderful design with a computer essentially built into a color TV set, woodgrain plastic and all! * CompuPro S-100 / 8-16 The CompuPro S-100 mainframes were the standard of the time, and the 8/16 is notable for running both CP/M and CP/M-86, and with a ROM BIOS card, even running some MS-DOS compatible software. * Convergent Technologies WorkSlate A wacky early laptop that used a spreadsheet metaphor for _everything_. * Corvus Concept A not-quite-so-GUI take on the Xerox Alto, with portrait monitor and all. * Cromemco C-10 Cromemco the big S-100 iron manufacturer builds a funky plastic home system with the CPU built into the monitor. * Cromemco System One * > Cromemco System Three Serious S-100 business boxes with huge power supplies and pull-out card-cages * Cromemco Z Series Cromemco's high-end hobbyist/low-end business line, in big steel cubes that could be driven over by a Mack truck. * Data General One DG really wanted into the burgeoning micro market, and tried their hand in desktops with the MicroNOVAs, but eventually found some small, brief success with this kinda-sorta-PC-compatible laptop. * DEC Rainbow 100 DEC cloned the PC and made it even better than the original design, but better doesn't mean 100% compatible. * Digital Group Systems Digital Group's proprietary bus didn't really take off, but they were really in the market early and had a choice of CPU's. * Dynalogic Hyperion Sure, it's another kinda-sorta-PC-compatible, but it's really amazing looking and is sought after by collectors. * Epson HX-20 A cute early take on laptops. * Epson PX-8 Geneva A big improvement on the QX-10, this system has a flip-up display, CP/M in ROM(!) and a tape drive that acts like a floppy to the OS. * Epson QX-10 & QX-16 Arguably the first laptop * Exidy Sorcerer With a great design, nice graphics, a terrific name, ROM cartridges built into 8-track-tape shells, the Sorcerer was featured in a lot of early magazines and though it didn't sell very well, many early enthusiasts got to play with it and remember it fondly. * Gimix An early follower of SWTPC's 6800-series CPU religion and SS-50 bus standard. * Franklin ACE 1000 / 1200 Successful Apple II clone used in a lot of schools * Hewlett-Packard HP85 Is it a really big calculator, or a small portable PC with built-in monitor? HP breaks into the portable computer market with a machine that looks strangely like a plastic IBM 5100. * Hewlett-Packard HP150 Although this is another not-quite-IBM-compatible box, it's notable for its unique features like touchscreen interface, and modular peripherals * Heathkit H-8 Surely one of the top ten most significant early computers, the H-8 had its own bus, and a lot of support from an established electronics kit manufacturer - plus a lot of great advertising. * Heathkit H-11 While this is technically a PDP-11 mini, some peripherals with the H-8, but more importantly shared its advertising targeted towards microcomputer magazines and enthusiasts. * Heath-Zenith H88/H89 The Heath-Zenith merger brings a nice solid single-chassis Z-80 box with monitor, keyboard and floppy drive. * IBM 5100 Personal Computer IBM's first personal computer, and the first portable personal computer. * IBM 5140 PC Convertible IBM's first laptop * IBM 5150 Personal Computer Hey, it's the IBM PC * IBM 5160 PC-XT First IBM PC with a hard drive * IBM 5170 AT First 80286 IBM PC * IBM 5155 Portable PC IBM's competition for the Compaq, stuffing a regular IBM PC motherboard into a luggable chassis * IBM PCjr One of the most significant PC failures of all time, remember the "Little Tramp" character in the ads? * IBM PS/2 Model 80 Signifies IBM's downfall as the dominant force in personal computing. * IMSAI 8080 Quite possibly the best personal computer ever made. Also known for its appearance in the movie "Wargames" * IMSAI PCS-80 * > IMSAI VDP-80 IMSAI struggles to follow up their early success via one-piece monitor/keyboard designs, without much success, and with notorious unreliability. * Ithaca Audio InterSystems DPS-1 A wild looking S-100 front panel machine with big orange levers, quite popular in its day and featured in mags. * Intertec SuperBrain An early one-piece design, the SuperBrain is really a Z-80 computer stuffed into a smart terminal, which already used its own Z-80, so the SuperBrain essentially had dual CPUs. * Kaypro II Kaypro proves that being cheaper than the Osborne is the only thing that matters. One of the biggest selling luggables ever. * Kaypro 4 / 10 Kaypro goes double-density, then adds possibly the first portable hard disk system. * Lobo PMC-80 The first TRS-80 clone * Mattel Aquarius Classic example of early-80s educational/gaming computers that died a quick death when the video game crash hit. * Mindset PC Truly strange proprietary 8088 box with high-end graphics at the time. * MITS Altair 680 MITS' backplaneless 6800 design. * MITS Altair 8800 * > MITS Altair 8800a * > MITS Altair 8800b * MITS Altair 8800b Turnkey Self explanatory * Morrow Decision 1 Decidedly different-looking kind of wedge-shaped CP/M box with built-in floppy drives * Morrow Micro Decision Morrow tries to build a single-board Z-80 CP/M machine that looks like an IBM PC * Morrow Pivot Trick early portable * NEC PC-6001A NEC's kind-of-TRS-80-clone * NEC PC-8001A A more advanced take on the 6001, a CPU-in-the-keyboard design reminiscent of the Sorcerer, and with external expansion units like the TRS-80 * NEC PC-8201A / PC-8300 / PC-5000 Same as the TRS-80 model 100/102/200 * North Star Advantage A one-piece design like the IMSAI VDP-80 but more reliable * North Star Horizon Fabulous early S-100 box with a genuine wood case top and a semi-motherboard design with serial ports on the backplane * Ohio Scientific Challenger C1P * Ohio Scientific Challenger C4P OSI's homage to the Apple II, these wedge-shaped designs look like SOL-20s and ran 6502 CPUs * Ohio Scientific Challenger C3D Would you believe THREE different microprocessors in one chassis? 6502, 6809, and Z-80. * Osborne 1 They said Adam Osborne should stop preaching about how to build a good computer, and just go build one. A great design, and a great success until nuked by cheaper, less engineered copycats by companies like Kaypro. * Osborne Executive A slightly more advanced Osborne 1, notable for the press generated by not having a big enough screen compared to the Kaypro II. * Osborne Vixen The machine with which Osborne "Osborned" himself out of business, lending the computing industry a new term for preannouncement stupidity. * Otrona Attache Simply a nice luggable design * Polymorphic Systems POLY-88 Neat compact S-100 essentially housed in a 5 1/4" drive enclosure, it was known as the "Micro Altair" until MITS threatened to sue. * Processor Technology SOL Probably the first computer with built-in video output, and otherwise just terrific * Quasar/Panasonic HK2600TE Hand Held Computer Reasonably significant handheld PCs with BASIC * Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 1 One of the best selling computers of all time, viewed as the "serious" machine versus those "color graphics" 6502 boxes from Apple and Atari. * Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computers 1-3 If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Radio Shack goes color and 6502. * Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 2 Radio Shack goes business. * Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3 & 4 First the TRS-80 must go single chassis due to FCC requirements, then it adds CP/M capability. Nice one-piece machines * Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4P The only TRS-80 portable, also runs CP/M, a great collector piece to run virtually all the software and not take up much space * Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 12 / 16 / 6000 TRS-80 goes multi-user * Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100 / 102 / 200 One of the most popular portable computers ever; in continuous use until just a few years ago by many organizations. Durable, practical, light, user-programmable, inexpensive. * Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Color Computer MC-10 Perfect example of why people hate small chiclet keyboards. * Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computers Some of the first calculator-style "computers" with BASIC * RCA COSMAC 1802 / ELF / Super ELF The Voyager space probe was powered by three RCA 1802 CPUs, which hobbyists could play with themselves on these cute single-board computers. True classics. * Rockwell AIM-65 You've got a display (one line) a printer (tiny & thermal) and a keyboard... what more do you need? Maybe an optional plastic case. * Sanyo MBC-1000 Popular CP/M desktop for business and word processing * Seattle Computer Products 8086 "Gazelle" The machine that QDOS (later to become MS/PC-DOS) was written on. * Sharp Pocket Computers PC-1500 / PC-1500A Actually similar to some of the Radio Shack pocket computers which were built by Sharp, these later, larger units had a lot of software and peripherals. * Sinclair ZX80 First of the Sinclair line, and an early inexpensive hobbyist computer. Nasty membrane keyboard, but cute! * Sinclair ZX81 / Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 Sinclair merges with Timex and gets popular, but not more usable. * Smoke Signal Broadcasting Chieftain Like the Gimix, another SS-50 bus homage to the SWTPC 6809 * Spectravideo SV-318 / SV-328 Some of the only examples of the failed MSX standard to sell in the USA * Sphere Not much is known about this rare semi graphical box. * SWTPC (SouthWest Technical Products) 6800 * > SWTPC (SouthWest Technical Products) 6809 Champions of the 6800 series, SWTPC built solid chassis due to their history as an audio equipment manufacturer. The 6800 is one of the most significant machines ever, and one of the very earliest PCs. * Synertek SYM-1 Clone of the KIM-1 with more features, very popular * Texas Instruments TI 99/4A A huge seller, but could never quite beat Commodore at their own game. Tons of software, magazines and accessories available. * Timex-Sinclair 1500 * > Timex-Sinclair 2068 A bigger seller and more popular in Europe than in the US, these chiclet-equipped boxes still had a following in the states. * Tomy Tutor Like the Mattel Aquarius, a quick failure in the edutainment market at the time of the video game crash. * Vector Graphic Vector-1 Popular system in the heyday of S-100 * Vector Graphic Vector-4 An odd two-piece system with the CPU and drives housed with the monitor, and 8088 CPU * VideoBrain Rare gaming computer * Vtech Laser 128 The other successful Apple II clone * Xerox 820 A conventional CP/M system from the people that brought us the GUI * Zenith Z-110 / Z-120 Nice CP/M systems with built-in keyboard and disk drives

25 years, 10 months

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Motorola UDS modem....

by roblwill＠usaor.net

So, it's sort of like a long-distance link between two computers? Anyone know where I'd find another? Or one that I could connect to? ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Donnerstag, 17. Juni 1999 23:08 Subject: Re: Motorola UDS modem.... >At 22:29 17-06-1999 -0700, you wrote: > >>I just found an old Motorola Universal Data Systems model 201B/C modem in my >>basement while I was cleaning. I have the original box and manual, but >>can't figure out how to get it to work. > > <snip> > > That's no surprise. That's an old 4-wire leased-line modem. You'd need >another 201 at the opposite end of a four-wire data circuit for it to be >useful. It will only handle synchronous data. > >>Anyone ever worked with one of these? > > Frequently, in my datacomm days (many moons ago). > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." >

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 18, 19:07, Allison J Parent wrote: > Subject: Re: OT -mostly - > <Compare this to modern OSs - windows, macos, etc where the development pack > <costs hundreds or thousands of dollars extra. > > VMS, all of the Unix clones, All cost extra, unless you mean gcc etc. None of HP/UX, Solaris, IRIX, AIX, come with more than the minimum required to relink the kernel, although you can buy the development tools separately. > RT-11 to name a few still provide full > development environment. That's certainly valid. The exception that proves the rule, perhaps :-) > I'm sure some(I would) here would add CPM > OS9 and even PC based DOS(MS, DRdos, CCPM...). the amount of freeware > or lowcost shareware for DOS/winders is quite impressive and plentyful. > > Of all the software out there CPM-80, APPLE and PCdos has the largest > archives, but the PDP-8, -11, VAX archives are getting big. But does freeware/shareware count? The original point was that the manufacturers don't provide their tools for free as part of the OS; of course you can add on any amount of 3rd party free software to virtually any OS. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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Compilers not coming with the OS anymore

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote: > At 16:13 18/06/99 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > ISTR that the error log analyzer is written in PL/1, for example. > > CUSP is something like Commonly Used System (Software?) Program. That's it. > I'm not sure about the error log analyzer but certainly part (if not all) > of the monitor program is written in PL/1. (Monitor monitors the > performance of a VMS system and is not to be confused with The Monitor > which was the system for a DECsystem-10). Right! The system monitor was written in PL/1. The error log analyzer was written in COBOL. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

25 years, 10 months

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Fwd: Re: Compilers not coming with the OS anymore

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote: > I've heard that Bliss was not liked within Digital. As they used to say: "Bliss is Ignorance" -ethan === _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<On a side note, perhaps it would be better to have the most <collectable by category (e.g. 8 bit home, S-100, early GUI, etc). <That way more items can be listed but still be managed. Plus then <everyone can argue about how to classify things (does the <CompuPro go under CPM or S100 or both). Well, the people that classify things have a field day. The reality with computers is that they are metamorphic making that a challenge. For it to work the list must have a coherent set of rules. For example: S100 is a buss but that does not dictate what cpus are used and the list of CPUs (and OSs) are quite large(nearly every cpu used!). Listing by OS narrows that to groups or specific cpus. the list in my mind has these criteria. Order by introduction, by OS or CPU, by bus used, by attributes (first, portable, GUI...). I'm sure there are more ways but it would likely end up looking like a matrix. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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Compilers not coming with the OS anymore

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've heard that Bliss was not liked within Digital. I'm assuming some <aspects of NIH along with support issues. Perhaps someone who was there <might like to comment? Correct BLISS was not a favorite of the systems people and there was an effort in the 80s to move a lot of bliss (vax) code to C. It was partly the portability plus interfacing issues between languages and that C or Pascal was seen as becomming the more standard languages. I think also it was considered by more than me to be an esoteric skill that showed little value outside of DEC or DEC environments. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Ah, but does this not actually fall under the same catagory as the above >> comments about UNIX? Or does RT-11 ship with more than Macro-11? You >>kind >> of have to have Macro-11 in order to run a SYSGEN I believe. >True, but a fair amount of development work is/was done with MACRO-11. That's an understatement. Compared with a PC-clone or Unixy assemblers, the expansive abilities of a true Macro assembler are astounding. Think of Macro-11 not so much as an assembler, but as a completely extensible language. Many other architectures have similarly powerful macro assemblers. Unfortunately, folks these days think of "macros" in relation to programming as being limited to what 'cpp' is capable of. Tim.

25 years, 10 months

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Cromemco System 1 in Ghostbusters

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I wonder if anybody's ever put together an "old micros spotted in movies" >list. It doesn't necessarily meet everybody's definition of a "micro", but at the start of _Three Days of the Condor_ there's some nice shots of a PDP-8 with DECTape drives. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years, 10 months

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OT: Included Development Tools

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 18, 22:32, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Subject: OT: Included Development Tools > Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > >For the unices mentioned earlier, I believe that cc, an assembler, etc > >were _not_ included with the OS. So there is no way of writing programs > >with the software as supplied. > > Dunno about the others that were mentioned, but Solaris (in every form that > I dealt with, anyway...) did include cc, plus perl, tcl/tk, I think Python, > and maybe some others. > > Now... the libraries that were included with Solaris were lame at best, and > it is tough to get 3rd party programs to compile with the included cc (a > quick upgrade to gcc fixes that...) but it was included, and was enough to > write C & perl programs out of the box. IIRC that isn't ANSI C, and certainly isn't intended for development work. Sun sell a development compiler separately, and it's *not* cheap. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 19, 2:53, Tony Duell wrote: > It doesn't matter (IMHO) _why_ Macro-11 was included, the fact is that it > was. And it's possible to write programs in Macro-11, so it counts as a > programming tool. > > For the unices mentioned earlier, I believe that cc, an assembler, etc > were _not_ included with the OS. So there is no way of writing programs > with the software as supplied. Usually there would be only part of the compiler, and a linker, but no assembler; and in some cases the linker would be a cut-down version. For example, in IRIX, you only need to able to link COFF executables to rebuild the kernel, whereas the normal linker/loader handles ELF executables. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 18, 16:39, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Pete wrote > > On Jun 18, 19:07, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > VMS, all of the Unix clones, > > > > All cost extra, unless you mean gcc etc. None of HP/UX, Solaris, IRIX, > > AIX, come with more than the minimum required to relink the kernel, > > although you can buy the development tools separately. > > > > > RT-11 to name a few still provide full > > > development environment. > > > > That's certainly valid. The exception that proves the rule, perhaps :-) > > Ah, but does this not actually fall under the same catagory as the above > comments about UNIX? Or does RT-11 ship with more than Macro-11? You kind > of have to have Macro-11 in order to run a SYSGEN I believe. True, but a fair amount of development work is/was done with MACRO-11. However, very few people would even contemplate writing assembler for a UNIX system (except for very small very low level things). 18 months ago I had to write some applications stuff in MIPS assembler for IRIX, and was disgusted to find that SGI's C compiler could do just as good a job as I could, most of the time. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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TRS-80 Model III for sale

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Is there any interest here for a TRS-80 Model III located in the Dallas area? Please let me know and I'll pass you on to the seller. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

CoCo... 6809... OS-9... duh! I said it was a late night. I put the C65 on with the 64 not really because they're similar, but because the 65 is just a prototype. Victor 9000, good addition! Check out the WorkSlate at http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/ConvergentTechnologiesWorkSlate.htm. One cool thing about the WorkSlate, the tapes were stereo, and the data was only one one track - the other track held audio! So as you loaded the program, the audio would play back, telling you about the program and its functions. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:ckaiser@oa.ptloma.edu] Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:06 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers My comments ... ::* Apple Macintosh 128 :: ::1984. The Super Bowl. Right on. :-) ::* Commodore 64 / 65 :: ::Probably the biggest selling computer of all time, in terms of market share ::at the time These should really be separate. The 65 is much, much more interesting than the 64 (and, coming from a guy who logs in with his 128, that's really saying something :-) in terms of hardware, rarity and history. ::* Commodore C16 / Plus 4 :: ::I don't care much for these, but Commodore fanatics love 'em They're stupendous machines that never found a use. Commodore really shot themselves in the foot by making them 64-incompatible, but TED graphics are stellar. ::* Convergent Technologies WorkSlate :: ::A wacky early laptop that used a spreadsheet metaphor for _everything_. Whoa. Who can tell me about these? Spreadsheet metaphor? ::* Data General One :: ::DG really wanted into the burgeoning micro market, and tried their hand in ::desktops with the MicroNOVAs, but eventually found some small, brief success ::with this kinda-sorta-PC-compatible laptop. Weren't they more successful than this? My DG One runs Caldera OpenDOS now, btw. :-) ::* Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computers 1-3 :: ::If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Radio Shack goes color and 6502. I'm sure you mean 6809, right? :-P The CoCoers would kill you over this one. ::* Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computers :: ::Some of the first calculator-style "computers" with BASIC Don't forget the Sharp and Casio systems these were unabashed clones of, though I think you mention the Sharps somewhere ... ::* Sharp Pocket Computers PC-1500 / PC-1500A :: ::Actually similar to some of the Radio Shack pocket computers which were ::built by Sharp, these later, larger units had a lot of software and ::peripherals. ... yep. The PC-4 is a Casio PB-410, btw. (Someone check this ... ?) ::* Sinclair ZX81 / Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 :: ::Sinclair merges with Timex and gets popular, but not more usable. The 2068 is even harder to find than the TS1000. (It's just TS1000, not TS ZX1000.) UK people, what was the 2068 a clone of? The Spec +3? ::* Sphere :: ::Not much is known about this rare semi graphical box. But sure sounds cool! When did it appear? What did it run? ::* Tomy Tutor :: ::Like the Mattel Aquarius, a quick failure in the edutainment market at the ::time of the video game crash. I love mine, though :-) Ones I'd add: * though not US: Apricot F1 for the colour graphics * Victor 9000/Sirius 1 Good job! -- -------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser Database Programmer/Administrative Computing Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581 ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539 -- He is rising from affluence to poverty. -- Mark Twain ----------------------

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

>-----Original Message----- >From: Marvin [mailto:marvin@rain.org] >Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 2:32 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers > >> Lobo PMC-80 > >Do you possibly mean the MAX-80? I hadn't heard of a PMC-80. Come to think of it, there were 3 Lobo TRS-80 clones... the LNW-80 (Mod 1 clone), PMC-80 (Mod 1 clone with built-in tape drive and plastic case like a Sorcerer), and MAX-80 (Mod 3 clone) I'll probably list all 3 on one line. Thanks for the heads up Kai

25 years, 10 months

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Rainbow Dvorak

by mtapley＠swri.edu

jpero wrote:> ... very sinister quiet here.... Quiet time, eh? I can help :-) by tossing out dumb questions. Here's the first: I've got a DEC Rainbow 100A. I love it, but I love the Dvorak keyboard layout more. There *is* a program on ftp.update.uu.se that purports to rearrange the keyboard in software (guess mode on: it intercepts the key input, remaps it using a table lookup, then passes it back to the remainder of the key input routine : guess mode off) I've been emailed that the program works .... but it does *not* work on my machine. It runs, terminates normally, and reports that it's already installed (as a TSR?) if re-run, but it has no effect on the keyboard. I have no Rainbow B to test it on, that could be the difference. I'm running MS-DOS 3.10B from Suitable Solutions. Could a DECspert with both a 100A and a 100B let me know if that's the problem? Better still, is it easy to disassemble the program, find out where/how the intercept I hypothesize is done, and re-target it for the 100A? Better still, does anyone know the whereabouts of Jim Beveridge (sic?) the author of the program? I know I've left out a slew of relevant details, like where the program acutally is on update, what the Dvorak keyboard layout is, etc etc. I'll be more than happy to supply them if anyone is interested in digging into this and when I get back near my machine with a bit of time to dig into it. I guess this is reasonably on-topic, but I'll be happy to take it off-list if folks are happy with quiet time. Thanks in advance! - Mark

25 years, 10 months

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Compilers not coming with the OS anymore

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: After someone else asked: > > After playing with BeOS a while something occurred to me. Does anyone > > remember at what point operating systems stopped coming with development > > tools? > > I wasn't aware that they had :-). At least Linux, *BSD, VMS (I think), > etc come with compilers. VMS (V5.X and before, for sure) came with an assembler. Compilers were always extra. At least the engineers stuck it to the marketing types when the marketing types wanted to charge extra for *run-time* libraries for the various languages. The engineers wrote a system utility (CUSPS, as they were called by DEC - I forget exactly what it stands for) in each of the languages DEC shipped so that the runtimes would have to ship with the OS, not as a seperate product. ISTR that the error log analyzer is written in PL/1, for example. Solaris 2.x never came with a C compiler, but SunOS (BSD-based) did. AmigaDOS 1.0 came with ABasic, 1.1 and later came with AmigaBASIC (M$). The assembler and C compiler, etc., were always extra. After 1987, AmigaDOS came with AREXX. At least the Amiga, after 1.3, came with MicroEMACS as an alternative to the crappy standard editor. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

25 years, 10 months

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Info Needed: DQ606 Floppy Controller

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

After playing with BeOS a while something occurred to me. Does anyone remember at what point operating systems stopped coming with development tools? I'm remembering the commodore 64 that came with Basic, and if you typed in the assembler from the manual, you could (at least in theory) write proffessional quality assembly language programs worthy of being sold to others. Compare this to modern OSs - windows, macos, etc where the development package costs hundreds or thousands of dollars extra. (small plug - BeOS comes with (theoretically) all the tools you need to do development on it.) -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! -----------------------------------------------------------------------

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<APC probably needs to be there, along with the Wave Mate Bullet. If you include the bullet then the AMPRO LBseries... it get big after a while. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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RL02s available in Puget Sound, WA area

by djenner＠halcyon.com

Well, John Lawson didn't quite make off with all the RL02 drives around here. I've just uncovered 3 more drives available to anyone who can pick them up. One is known to work, the other two may be "for parts". If anyone is interested, let me know and I can get the particulars on them for you. You would have to be able to pick them up in the vicinity of Seattle, WA. Dave

25 years, 10 months

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2 computers

by peterutz＠worldnet.att.net

A friend has a couple old computers gathering dust. Both work but need new homes. Any buyers? Timex Sinclair ZX-80 with manual. Radio Shack TRS80 Model 1 with monitor, dual disk drives, 48K memory, manuals, documents, software. And for video collectors: Sony Portapac model 3400, also called the Rover, the first popular EIAJ reel-to-reel portable VCR, with power supply and tape. peterutz(a)worldnet.att.net

25 years, 10 months

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Any KSR-1 or 2s out there (OT-newer but rare)

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Is there anyone out there maintaining or know of a Kendall Square Research KSR 1 or 2 massively parallel supercomputer. Unfortunately a local scrapper got to the chassis but the cards & power supplies of one are available. Paxton Portland, OR

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> VMS, all of the Unix clones, < <All cost extra, unless you mean gcc etc. None of HP/UX, Solaris, IRIX, <AIX, come with more than the minimum required to relink the kernel, <although you can buy the development tools separately. Unix clones also include Linux, Freebsd, Minix... <> I'm sure some(I would) here would add CPM <> OS9 and even PC based DOS(MS, DRdos, CCPM...). the amount of freeware <> or lowcost shareware for DOS/winders is quite impressive and plentyful. <> <> Of all the software out there CPM-80, APPLE and PCdos has the largest <> archives, but the PDP-8, -11, VAX archives are getting big. < <But does freeware/shareware count? The original point was that the <manufacturers don't provide their tools for free as part of the OS; of <course you can add on any amount of 3rd party free software to virtually <any OS. CPM however did come with a fairly complete devlopment environment for 8080 (or 8086 for cpm-86). However the shareware/freeware counting part I agree it's questionable but often there are better out there than from the OS oem. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The Hobbyist version of OpenVMS comes with compilers, the Commercial versio <most definitly does not. Ah yes to a point, no compilers. There is MACRO and also BASIC, though a lot of work is easily done in DCL. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>After playing with BeOS a while something occurred to me. Does anyone remember >at what point operating systems stopped coming with development tools? I'm >remembering the commodore 64 that came with Basic, and if you typed in the >assembler from the manual, you could (at least in theory) write proffessional >quality assembly language programs worthy of being sold to others. Well, CP/M came with a good assembler, MS-DOS didn't. That's where I draw the line in my head. Admittedly the version of ASM that came with CP/M wasn't awfully featurefull, but it did work. And you got documentation for writing programs with CP/M. And admittedly MS-DOS commonly was installed with some version of MS-BASIC, but I (personally) don't categorize that as a "real" development tool. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years, 10 months

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Ancient Modems (was Re: Who says familiy activities are extinct? ^_^)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:53:11 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Who says familiy activities are extinct? ^_^ > > > > > Yeah, those are what they are, LDSsomethings, with 4-wire connections. > > Do those need AT commands to set up or similar, or do they just > > stay in data mode all the time? > > AT commands? Surely you jest. Have you looked inside (take off the feet > and slide the cover backwards). It's all simple analogue chips and > discretes inside. No microcontroller, no command language. > > Once you've connected them up, they behave like a long RS232 cable (data > leads only). Squirt data in one end, get it out the other. I missed the top of this, but I think this thread is about some older Modems, Motorola UDS's, yes? If I read what's gone on correctly, a four-wire device is for leased lines. You didn't even dial them. You just hooked them up and squirt away. Older two-wire modems, especially those that move sync data, are also lacking in dialing facilities. There was a seperate box that you routed the phone line through and sent commands via serial or parallel port to make the external box do the dialling. We used one when we were making sync comm equipment for VAXen more than ten years ago. I forget the first part of the designation, but it was a mumble-mumble 850 autodialler, the standard. Much later, ANSI invented an autodial protocol, V.25, IIRC. I have a Motorola 2400 sync/async V.25 _and_ Hayes modem from those days. It would work like a regular modem over a regular serial port, or if you used it in sync mode, you could send it V.25 autodial commands. One of my jobs back then was to retrofit the V.25 command set into our product. It was pretty cool when it all worked, but cool is a relative thing when you are working with stone knives and bearskins. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Compare this to modern OSs - windows, macos, etc where the development pack <costs hundreds or thousands of dollars extra. VMS, all of the Unix clones, RT-11 to name a few still provide full development environment. I'm sure some(I would) here would add CPM OS9 and even PC based DOS(MS, DRdos, CCPM...). the amount of freeware or lowcost shareware for DOS/winders is quite impressive and plentyful. Of all the software out there CPM-80, APPLE and PCdos has the largest archives, but the PDP-8, -11, VAX archives are getting big. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Polymorphic originally called it the "Micro Altair" until MITS threatened to sue them, and they renamed it the POLY-88. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey [mailto:elvey@hal.com] Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 2:52 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re[2]: Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> wrote: > > > > Polymorphic Systems POLY-88 > > I have asked a few people but so far no response. Since this was originally > named the Micro-Altair, did any of those machines actually get shipped with > that name? If so, I would consider them to be rather rare and worthy of a > separate listing. Say Huh? The Poly-88 was not an Altair. It was made by a group in Santa Barbara. I have one, they were manufactured and sold as a product called Poly-88. Dwight

25 years, 10 months

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HP7900A drive

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I talked to a guy that does 7900A repair today. He said from what I described that the heads are probably just in need of strong cleaning with a toothbrush, then touchup with 100% alcohol. As long as the gimbal isn't bent, all should be well. That takes care of the heads. Then you wrote... >I fixed a Plessey RK05-a-like drive years ago using a platter taken from >a standard RK05 cartridge. If you're lucky (and I was), the fixed platter >seats on a machined area of the hub/spindle and doesn't need to be >centred up. Otherwise you have to centre it with a dial gauge before >clamping up the screws. He also said the platter scapes make the platter almost, but not quite, useless; and that I definitely need a new platter. The lower platter on the 7900A does in fact seat on a machined area of the spindle and doesn't need special centering - "just bolt it on? - just bolt it on". He said I could use any 14" disk media that was the right thickness. Can't remember if it was 50 mils or 75 mils. I think it's the same as the RK05. I'll find out the mils number tonight when I compare my 7900 cartridge with my 7905/6 one. All I need to do is clamp a metal micrometer on the platter <just kidding folks!>. So - does anyone have a broken RK05 type cartridge that they'd part with so I can steal the platter out of it? >It's worth trying. Clean the platter as well. It can't do _more_ damage, >after all... True, but if there is so much scraped oxide that the badtrack list is 10% of the platter, why even bother. I've been quoted anywhere from $50.00 to $250.00 for a media only surface (no hub, which is all I need). Hopefully someone here can help out? Thanks in advance!!! Jay West

25 years, 10 months

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Have I been unsubscribed?

by bill＠chipware.com

I have not received a single classiccmp message today (6/18/1999). Am I unsubscribed? Is the list down? Bill Sudbrink

25 years, 10 months

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Commodore 64GS

by BobMcPhail＠aol.com

Does anyone know where I can find a working Commodore 64GS system? I've been looking for the last two years with no luck. Please e-mail me if you know where I can purchase one. Thanks, Bob

25 years, 10 months

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it's just typical (was: First Apple I up for auction)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I don't know where this "reporter" got his information, but MITS did not build the IMSAI. It's sacrilege, that's what it is! It's like saying the Silver Cloud was built by YUGO. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 12:19 PM Subject: Re: First Apple I up for auction >On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Now's some lucky persons chance to own a piece of computing history. >> >> http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20271.html >> >> Sam is in the article, and the place selling the computer is hoping to get >> $40,000 for it. > ><BIG ANNOYED SIGH> > >I love being misquoted. I also love it when the journalist takes the >information I give him and jumbles it all up into a miserable pile of >gibberish. > >Oh well, the price I pay for free publicity. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 05/25/99] >

25 years, 10 months

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OT -mostly -

by robert.edis＠creatcomp.com

OpenVMS still comes with development tools. You can write primitive interpretive code using DCL and more sophisticated stuff with TPU. The file management system RMS also comes free with VMS. Besides the above, there are many shareware or freeware development tools that can be used with VMS. For the private user, VMS can be free and comes with free C/C++, BASIC, Fortran, Perl and other compilers. How does BeOS compare with that? Blue PowerHouse consultant Rhode Island, USA Disclaimer: The opinions and ideas expressed in this message are my own and have no relationship to my current employer, Initial Technical Staffing, its client CCI, or any of CCI's clients. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland [mailto:jim@calico.litterbox.com] Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 3:58 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: OT -mostly - After playing with BeOS a while something occurred to me. Does anyone remember at what point operating systems stopped coming with development tools? I'm remembering the commodore 64 that came with Basic, and if you typed in the assembler from the manual, you could (at least in theory) write proffessional quality assembly language programs worthy of being sold to others. Compare this to modern OSs - windows, macos, etc where the development package costs hundreds or thousands of dollars extra. (small plug - BeOS comes with (theoretically) all the tools you need to do development on it.) -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! -----------------------------------------------------------------------

25 years, 10 months

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Sol-20 Keyboard

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

True, but I found that nearly all the keys were usable except for Enter, Space, Escape and Shift. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 12:06 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Sol-20 Keyboard On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Pull off one of the SOL keys. Note the spring and the key mounting > mechanism. Go to your local surplus joint and go through their pile 'o' old > keyboards, pulling a key off of each until you find one that uses springs -- > Keytronic made essentially the same foam-pad mechanism for years and years, > on PC keyboards. > > I found a suitable one quite easily, and replaced all of the foam in my SOL. The only problem with that, Kai, is that some of the PC keyboards are getting old enough to be a bit edgy also. But at least you won't have much invested except time! - don

25 years, 10 months

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Sol-20 Keyboard

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Pull off one of the SOL keys. Note the spring and the key mounting mechanism. Go to your local surplus joint and go through their pile 'o' old keyboards, pulling a key off of each until you find one that uses springs -- Keytronic made essentially the same foam-pad mechanism for years and years, on PC keyboards. I found a suitable one quite easily, and replaced all of the foam in my SOL. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Marvin [mailto:marvin@rain.org] Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 9:51 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Sol-20 Keyboard Well, the saga continues. This unit does have the 85 key keyboard and the Sol-20 power supply so I don't know what to say about the model 10 on the nameplate. I took the keyboard apart last night and found both the sponge disintegrating and the metalized plastic that contacts the keyboard also has the metalization disappearing. Since I believe this is a capacitive type of keyboard, I can see why it didn't work. What have others on the list done to replace the plastic/sponge sandwich on this type of keyboard?

25 years, 10 months

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Who says familiy activities are extinct? ^_^

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Yesterday, I spent all day at a customer's site, arguing with Windows NT. God, I hate NT. Anyway, I return to the office to clock out, call home, my mother answers. I says, "Is my supper still there?" She says, "Yes, and hurry home, me and your (little) sister went dumpster diving." "Uh, WHAT?" So, I go home. They scored 2 dead monitors, some miscellaneous System/36 disks, and 2 leased-line modems. So, I head out with them, to visit the dumpster again. Turns out it was a grade school not too far away. Anyway, I took some goodies, here's the highlights: An Apple 2/E, in (seemingly) working order, but no floppy controller. But it has the drives... A Laser 128. No power supply. What's this? IBM System/36 SSP and Microcode disks. Ohhh, yes. The 2 leased-line modems - a small Gandalf model, and something else. Miscellaneous 2e manuals. I have DOS disks and such elsewhere... Anyway, what's the Laser, and can I do much with the Apple, even though it has no floppy card? I suppose I have to RTFM... -------

25 years, 10 months

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it's just typical (was: First Apple I up for auction)

by edick＠idcomm.com

That was my point, Hans. I can't comment on the Morris Minor, but the Yugo did work, just as the Altair did. It's just that you always had to nurse the Altair along. Now the IMSAI was a different thing. It was laid out by a professional who designed the PCB assemblies like a "real" product, even back when people thought of microcomputers as fancy "toys" for the intellectual elite. The Altairs of the mid '70's were laid out the way 2nd year engineering students did it. If they had hired a professional, it would have cost more. Likewise, the Yugo was designed and built with many economies in the form of omissions. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 12:20 PM Subject: Re: it's just typical (was: First Apple I up for auction) >> > I don't know where this "reporter" got his information, but MITS did not >> > build the IMSAI. It's sacrilege, that's what it is! It's like saying the >> > Silver Cloud was built by YUGO. > >> More like saying a Moris Minor was built by Yugo. > >Just help me: >Why you're always jumpin' on the Yugo ? >They had fine cars (when considering the price). >And in fact, I'd prefer a Yugo over a Moris Minor >(guess I won't be allowed to set a foot on the >isle in the future :). > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. >H.Achternbusch

25 years, 10 months

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TRS-80 parts/software needed

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I need the following stuff to fix my old TRS-80. I had it working again after I dropped paper clips into it, but the person who was junking the parts that I used to repair it were obviously throwing them out for a reason... I think all that I need are a model 3 or 4 motherboard, and a matching RS-232 interface. I could also probably use a model 4 keyboard, if I get the model 4 motherboard, but the model 3 one will still work, won't it? I also need a disk copy of VideoText software, Scripsit, and TRS-DOS (I have L-DOS, but it's for the Model 4). ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> PS>> I think there was someone on this list that was parting out an old Model 4. I think I emailed you about it, but I lost your address. Do you still have it??

25 years, 10 months

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HP7900A drive

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Ugggg.... In my rush to spin up the drive, I had neglected to inspect the bottom heads for the fixed platter. They are, after all, almost hidden in the bottom. :[ This time I removed the bottom of the drive and looked underneath. There are the obvious telltale streaks on the bottom surface of the bottom (fixed) platter; it doesn't look gouged, but streaked nontheless. The bottom heads (which can only really be inspected from the bottom of the drive with the bottom cover off) don't look to be very happy. Definite oxide residue, but the heads at least LOOK structurally sound. Since the bottom fixed platter doesn't have servo data on it, I'm hoping a new bottom platter won't cost much more than a removable platter. Then I'm hoping that since the noise was never that pronounced that perhaps the heads will be OK after thorough cleaning. Don't know much about this - is that possible? I know, I'm probably hoping unrealistically. This pretty well trashes my hopes for TSB, at least until I can fix it or find another 7900A. On the bright side, it's pretty obvious that this damage was done before I got the drive. Small consolation ;) Jay West

25 years, 10 months

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Serial option for PCs

by jfoust＠threedee.com

An article on Slashdot <http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/99/06/17/1731248.shtml> asked about methods for making headless Linux boxes, and one of the reader answers was sufficiently retro and weird that I thought it might interest this list. <http://www.realweasel.com/> describes the PC Weasel 2000, an ISA card that emulates a mono video card, but that transmits the characters on the virtual screen out the serial port, and converts serial input to PC keyboard keystrokes. Thus no video monitor is needed, and no BIOS changes needed, in order to "see" even the lowest-level cold-boot options on a PC. - John

25 years, 10 months

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Motorola UDS modem....

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I just found an old Motorola Universal Data Systems model 201B/C modem in my basement while I was cleaning. I have the original box and manual, but can't figure out how to get it to work. It's odd- looking (in the fact that it's blue). It runs on 120 volts, has a 1/2 amp fuse, a toggle (power) switch, 25-pin DTE data connector, and the telephone input/output connectors on the back. The front is black and has 9 LED's on it, along with a rotary switch. The LED's are (left to right) MR/RI, TR,RS,CS,CD,RD,TD,TM,and POWER. The rotary switch (which is between the "TM" and "POWER" LED's has 9 positions for RDLST, RDL, LDL, AL, DATA, TALK, TTP, RTP, and ST. According to the manual, these are different test settings. Anyone ever worked with one of these? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

25 years, 10 months

2
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Sanyo MBC 555

by PATTON2R＠aol.com

Hello all, Anybody else out there have a Sanyo MBC 555 computer? Anybody out there have MS-DOS version 1.25??? Robert Patton II PATTON2R(a)aol.com

25 years, 10 months

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Who says familiy activities are extinct? ^_^

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 6/17/99 9:45:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time, tomowad(a)earthlink.net writes: > >A Laser 128. No power supply. What's this? > > It's an Apple IIe/IIc compatible. Unlike most "clones", VTech created > their own Apple II compatible ROMs and the machine is 100% legal. I've > never had any compatibility issues with mine, either. An ordinairy Apple > IIc power supply will work with the unit. > > Tom Owad > the only compatibility issue i had with the laser was that it wouldnt work with aol when they supported it. i had to borrow a //c to logon. i think laser claimed 99% just for these type issues. It's my understanding that the laser128 had the universal disk controller builtin so it handled pretty much any apple drive that could be plugged into the disk drive port.

25 years, 10 months

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Who says familiy activities are extinct? ^_^

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, you can link 2 together - Tx terminals on one to Rx terminals <on the other and vice versa. Works with twin twisted pair cable up to a <few hundred metres (? Maybe a little more). If it's a short haul modem the limit is some 4000ft at something like 9600 or maybe even as fast as 38.4k. Used to used them in the DEC Mill for links off the eithernet using synchronous DUV-11s. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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Sol-10

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Complex. This has two ROM sockets on it along with a switch to select one o <the other. The one at C000 is labeled "N* C000" and the one at F000 is <labeled "*80.2 F000". No idea what they are for as the NS* controller has it's own boot roms nominally at E800h. The C000h address is nothing special for NS* dos. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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Who says familiy activities are extinct? ^_^

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>A Laser 128. No power supply. What's this? It's an Apple IIe/IIc compatible. Unlike most "clones", VTech created their own Apple II compatible ROMs and the machine is 100% legal. I've never had any compatibility issues with mine, either. An ordinairy Apple IIc power supply will work with the unit. Tom Owad

25 years, 10 months

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Off Topic about GRiD and 1958 Oscilloscope- Help requested.

by fluke＠mcs.net

I've gotten my hands on a touchscreen GRiDpad. I don't recall the model number, but its just an LCD panel with some buttons along the side, and a stylus. I found a keyboard port pinout for it and build a power adapter, and can get it to ask me to abort, retry, or fail, but I cannot get it to do anything remotely useful. The appeal of this system is that I am a religious GEOS user for MSDOS pc's, and the idea of having touchscreen-GEOS is pretty cool (GEOS has built in support for the GRiD's goofy video resolution, I believe, as well as support for its touchscreen-mouse driver). My question is this: What do I put on a hard drive to get it to boot? It seems reluctant to boot off of a conventional micro-IDE drive that has MS-DOS on it, and if I don't have a drive plugged in it says GRiD Bios v. something.something. When I first got it it had no HD in it at all, just two PCMCIA looking slots, which I would assume to be PCMCIA sockets. One of these sockets is on a daughter board adjacent to a micro-IDE connector. I am stuck. I've had this in my basement for quite some time, but I can't figure out how to get it to boot anything. On a side note, I've also picked up a 1958 Tektronix O-scope (the school I go to was tossing it). It works fine, aside from the fact that the CRT on it scans so far to the left as to be almost off the screen. Does anyone out there have experience with this vintage of oscilloscope? Thanks! Greg

25 years, 10 months

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Help needed on HP 7900A disk drive (mechanical)

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I'm in need of sage advice from others on the list, due to my lack of troubleshooting/repair experience with large (14") hard drives. I'm a sophomore with electronics, but these beasties are largely mechanical and out of my meager knowledge set. Background: I finally got a brand new (yes, really brand new) blank disk cartridge for my HP 7900A disk drive. The drive has never been powered up since I got it. The spindle motor won't even start on these drives unless the cartridge is in place (there is also a fixed platter underneath). Since the drive is obviously not checked out, I wanted to get blank media to test so I didn't ruin valuable data on a cartridge I am getting later. First I very thoroughly cleaned the drive inside and out, cleaned all contacts, heads, positioner reticule, etc. etc. etc. I then checked the power supply out carefully. Then I powered up the drive (without the cartridge) and tested a number of the basic mechanical functions, interlocks, and test points on some of the cards called out by the operating manual. Then I wanted to try loading the cartridge to see if the heads would crash nicely :) Keep in mind that once the cartridge is in, there is a load switch that powers up the spindle and 30 seconds later the heads do a seek. At any time during the spin up or seek, the unload switch will immediately and very quickly retract the heads and then the drive spins down. "Problem": I put the cartridge in the drive and hit load. You can hear the spindle come up to speed. Exactly 30 seconds later as stated in the operators guide, you can hear the heads move and then the drive ready light comes on. From what I understand if there are any problems at all up to this point, the drive fault lite would come on (including a seek fail, etc.). I kept my finger on the unload switch. The second the heads came out I could hear a disconcerting noise. I immediately hit unload. I removed the cartridge, and inspected both the cartridge and heads carefully. No obvious signs of problems. I reloaded the cartridge. This time, when drive ready lit up, the drive was nice and quiet for about 25 seconds. Then I started hearing the noise again. On and off, more and more, so I hit unload. Rechecked the heads and cartridge again - no obvious signs of damage. Tried loading the cartridge again. This time it ran for a few minutes before I heard the noise. I unloaded and rechecked everything, still no signs of problems. Gee - can you tell I'm paranoid about possibly ruining the new cartridge and/or the heads? :) The sound is not quite metallic, but very close. It sounds like something rubbing at high speed but at a pretty high pitch. The best way I can describe it is that it is almost identical to the sound an 8" floppy disk makes when you put it into an RX02 drive and close the door (the media turning inside the sleeve), but much louder. I'm pretty uncomfortable proceding with diagnostics, etc. unless someone here can calm my fears as to what the sound might be. Is it just due to the fact that it's a brand new cartridge, or is it indicative of a potential head crash, just a belt issue, dust, etc? I'm pretty familiar with the whine a drive makes when the bearings are going out, and it does not sound like that sound. Any help, ideas, thoughts, etc. are MOST appreciated! Jay West

25 years, 10 months

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Sanyo DOS was: Re: GRiD and misc

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:29 AM 6/17/99 -0700, Grumpy old Fred wrote: >On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Marvin wrote: >> I didn't realize a DOS 1.25 was issued; I only have DOS 1.1 (1.01?) > >There was an MS-DOS 1.25, but not a PC-DOS. The second released version of >PC-DOS was 1.10 Note that the part after the PERIOD was stored >internally as ten, and the part after the period was then ALWAYS displayed >as a 2 digit decimal number. MS-DOS was released to other OEMs, who could >even change the NAME! (Z-DOS, etc.) Most of them (Compaq, etc.) called >that version 1.25 Note that the part after the PERIOD was stored >internally as twenty five. The (original) Sanyo disks that I have say "MS(tm)-DOS V. 1.25 #1.0". Even though they called it MS-DOS it was VERY modified for the Sanyo. FWIW, Joe

25 years, 10 months

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it's just typical (was: First Apple I up for auction)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . O.K. . . . you made your point. Nevertheless, the average MITS board looks like a screwed up piced of junk. . . . even the bare boards! The IMSAI products were all made up very nicely, clean circuit layout, good silkscreen, nice solder mask . . . AND most of them actually worked! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 1:42 PM Subject: Re: it's just typical (was: First Apple I up for auction) >"Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: >> I don't know where this "reporter" got his information, but MITS did not >> build the IMSAI. It's sacrilege, that's what it is! It's like saying the >> Silver Cloud was built by YUGO. > >More like saying a Moris Minor was built by Yugo. >IMHO >Dwight >

25 years, 10 months

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Sol-10

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Sol-PC: $475 kit (Sol single board computer only) Sol-10: $795 kit (Includes case, power supply and 70-key keyboard) Sol-20: $995 kit (Including case, power supply, 5-slot S-100 backplane, fan, large power supply, and 85-key keyboard) Kai -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 9:18 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Sol-10 On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Marvin wrote: > As I recall, Bob Marsh at VCF 1.0 indicated that the SOL-20 had only been > advertised and not produced. I am confused now. Last night, I pulled out the > SOL to fire it up and see if it worked or not. In looking at the nameplate, > it says "SOL Terminal Computer Model No. 10". No, there was never really a Sol-10. The Sol-10 was just a Sol-20 without the disk controller or something like that. If yours says Model 10 then that's interesting, and Bob Marsh lied :) Maybe it was the one that didn't originally come with a disk controller? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

25 years, 10 months

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id this transputer tram

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Hi, I have the following tram and I don't know what it is. It is manufactured by T2 Systems Ltd and is called a "Paradise 1/A" tram. It is a size 4 tram that has a T80x transputer on it. It also contains what looks like an IDC 50-pin connector (I didn;t count the pins, so I could be wrong). Does anyone know what it is?? Someone told me that it might be a data aquisition board (the IDC 50 looks like a connector for data aquisition according to this guy) but he can be wrong. If it is a DAQ card, what can I use it for?? Thanks Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks(a)olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/

25 years, 10 months

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Disk Drive Documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

While fumbling around among some old stuff in the basement, I found a notebook which contains the OEM and service manuals for the following SHUGART 8" Floppy Drives. 800/801, 850/851, 860/861, 600-series Siemens 8" Floppy Drives FDD 100-8 (2 versions, quite different, same part number) User (OEM) Manuals only Seagate Technology 5-1/4" Winchesters Model 506, 406, 409, 412 Persci Model 270, model 277 If this stuff is worth preserving, perhaps there's a way to save scanned images for eventual conversion to PDF. Does anyone know about this? Dick

25 years, 10 months

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plain great luck

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Hi all, today some quite unbelievable piece of luck happened to me: While I was walking by the back entrance of a smaller University here in Minneapolis purely accidentally, not thinking about computers at all, I ran into a pile of electronics. Short investigation revealed that it was a 1965 CDC 3000 series hard drive electronics cage (14" removable pack electronics), perfectly undamaged and complete with all the ~150 cards (it so happened that I worked on an identical cage about 15 years ago), plus a heap of cards from assorted ~1971 Univac / Burroughs machines ! Within the next hour I found out that the building will be completely remodeled, and had to be emptied out. Quite obviously, someone forgot about 25 years ago this set of things in the second-level basement; nothing else there, though. General lesson: we should ask all schools regularly for their renovation projects !! John G. Zabolitzky P.S. If anyone knows about / wants to get rid of CDC equipment of that vintage, please let me know !

25 years, 10 months

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More new things in search of docs... (MCS-85)

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

And yet another one... An Intel MCS-85 System Design Kit (8085 based single Board Computer) has wandered in sans docs... Anyone have a manual on this critter? -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!

25 years, 10 months

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DECmicroserver

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

Oops, wrong subject! Sorry! -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Teaching Assistant and MSc. Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, Portugal *** PGP Public Key available on my homepage: *** http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Key fingerprint = 0C 0A 25 58 46 CF 14 99 CF 9C AF 9E 10 02 BB 2A

25 years, 10 months

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DECmicroserver

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

I recently got a couple of tape streamers: a Tandberg 3610 and a 3300. Does anyone have any documentation/specs on these drives? Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Teaching Assistant and MSc. Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, Portugal *** PGP Public Key available on my homepage: *** http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Key fingerprint = 0C 0A 25 58 46 CF 14 99 CF 9C AF 9E 10 02 BB 2A

25 years, 10 months

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My new toy: HP85

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Tony Duell wrote: >> >> > FWIW the teeth on these belts are pitched at 0.080 inch - the standard "mini >> > pitch", unlike some equipment I have which uses belts with the teeth at 0.081 >> > inch... >> >> Can you really measure 1 thou difference on something like this? I would >> have thought the 'wrong' belt would have fitted anyway, since the rubber >> is somewhat elastic, and over the 20-or-so teeth engaged on a typical >> sprocket, you've only got an error of 20 thou... > To answer Tony's question first, yes you can. Take one of each belt and turn them inside out, i.e. teeth on the outside. (.080 inch from HP-85, .081 inch >from can't remember the make of papertape punch that was sold in the UK by Teleprinter Equipment.) Try and mesh the teeth of the two belts. It soon becomes obvious which one has the larger pitch. These belts, being string-reinforced, are not very stretchy and it would be difficult to get a .080 to run on .081 pulleys. >> In any case, how hard is it to make new sprockets with the right pitch >> (or even skim a bit off the existing ones to reduce the diameter >> slightly)? If the 'right' belts are impossible to obtain, this would seem >> to be a sensible solution. It might be a solution. In my Tektronix 4662 the belt is intact, but the pulley has died (20 teeth) I glued the old bits of (plastic) sprocket to the (metal) hub but it was just inaccurate enough to drop a tooth here and there. Result, the plotter couldn't get at the pens because they were offered up to the pen carrier at the wrong place... It might be quite easy to _buy_ new sprockets for .080 pitch. If not, I may ask to borrow your lathe, dividing head, etc... [Stan:] > Actually, the proper belts for the HP-85 printer are still easy to come > by. It took just two phone calls and I found a company called Stock > Drive Products in New Hyde Park, NY (516-328-3300). They ship these > belts from stock, and it doesn't appear that they have a minimum order > quantity (I ordered three of each of the two belts). The two part > numbers are A6B16-175012 and A6B16-078012, and they cost about two or > three dollars each. > Lucky you. When I contacted Stock Drive Products, they referred me to their UK agent, Davall. Davall do not, as far as I can determine, stock the HP85 belts. I found, eventually, another supplier, who said they could get the .080 and .081 pitch belts. I told them what belts I wanted and they promised to fax me a price, but I never heard any more. When I next get around to looking at the punch, I'll have another try... Philip.

25 years, 10 months

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Specs wanted: Pertec Interface (tape drives)

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Out on another info quest... Just added a couple of Kennedy 9610, 9-track tape drives to the collection (nice since they are multi-density 800 thru 6260) and of course have no docs on them... (ain't it always the way?) So in particular, I'd like to find some tech info on the (so called) "Pertec Interface" so I can figure out what various systems in the collection I might be able to convince these critters to work with. (and get a bit more knowledge on tape drive interfacing in general) Any assistance, pointers, spare docs, etc., most welcome! Thanks; -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!

25 years, 10 months

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Interested in old computing stuff -- europe area

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

Hi. I'm from Portugal, and I just wanted to state my interest on old computing material (non-PC) anyone wants to sell/give-away. Since it's not trivial to send medium-sized packaged overseas, I'm directing this mail to people living in europe (the closer to portugal the better 8-). Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Teaching Assistant and MSc. Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, Portugal *** PGP Public Key available on my homepage: *** http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Key fingerprint = 0C 0A 25 58 46 CF 14 99 CF 9C AF 9E 10 02 BB 2A

25 years, 10 months

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RSTS/E V9.7 sysgen

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I believe I have located the appropriate materials to allow me to sysgen my 11/44 RSTS/E system, in order to add support for RL02s,and maybe RX02s and a few other things.... I have obviously never essayed this task before, though I *have* sysgenned a number of smaller CP/M systems, and I think I understand the basics of what/why. If there is anyone on The List reading this who has done this (sysgenning RSTS) before, and *especially* if there are big gaping booby traps to fall into... I would be most interested in the benefit of your experience. The install.log is available from the previous sysgen, so I have all the responses to the dialogs. Like (duh!) ought I to back up what I have now? [how does one do this to MS0: 1/2" tape?] Ought I to partition the drive? Does the process overlay the existing OS areas, or does it start over completely? And please don't jam me about RTFM... even if I *had* them I'm sure I'd have a bunch of other newbie questions.... ;} Cheers and thanks... John

25 years, 10 months

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Processor Technology SOL-20 Help Needed

by uiterwyk＠eisers.com

Hi folks, I was just lucky enough to acquire a PT SOL-20 (1976) in great shape to add to my collection. Unfortunately, no documentation, I would dearly love to have that, either in the original or a photocopy Anybody?? Thanks Robert ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Robert Uiterwyk uiterwyk(at)eisers(dot)com

25 years, 10 months

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Excellent new eBay links and new magazine issue

by MTPro＠aol.com

Hello everyone, I hope no one minds me posting this to both CC lists. I just wanted to pass along the good news - we have updated our eBay auction links, just point and click for what you're looking for in old computers. Please try it and we welcome your comments and/or suggestions for making it better and more complete. Go to: www.classiccomputing.com/auctions.html Also, "Classic Computing" #1 is ready to mail! It's turned out great and has the spirit of it's earlier incarnation, "Historically Brewed." Selected articles from the new issue, as well as past issues will be added to the site this week. Thanks very much. Retrocompute! David Greelish Classic Computing Press www.classiccomputing.com

25 years, 10 months

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My new toy: HP85

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Wouter de Waal wrote: >> >> Hi all >> >> Yesterday evening a friend gave me a new toy. Hp85, which is a >> strange looking computer. Four slots at the back, and I have > > Just a quick reminder not to put a tape in the unit until you have checked > that the rubber roller inside is still intact. Looking is not quite good > enough but pushing it with a pencil eraser or whatever against it will show > if the rubber has deteriorated or is still good. While we're on the subject of decaying rubber in an HP85, I would add, don't try to run the printer until you have opened the unit up and freed off the drive belts - one for paper advance, one for print head. These belts go sticky and stick to the pulleys, so that when you try and run the machine they tear themselves to bits. It's a pity you weren't here a few months ago - a number of us got together and bought a bulk order of replacement belts very cheaply. I still have a spare pair if you're desperate, and I imagine one or two others may. FWIW the teeth on these belts are pitched at 0.080 inch - the standard "mini pitch", unlike some equipment I have which uses belts with the teeth at 0.081 inch... Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

25 years, 10 months

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Card Reader - HELP!

by leec＠slip.net

Hi all, I'm working on a volunteer project at the Computer History Center to interface a Documation desk top 80-column card reader to an IBM PC. The card reader is in very good condition, however we have no documentation for it. Do you know of, have, or can you provide pointers to any documentation for this device, how to interface to it, or operational information? On the back panel of the reader is a plate which lists the model as Documation "Model RM/TRM 10.12L-10.12C", with a sticker on the front with "Model 10.L12+", and operates at 115V 6.1A. The reader has a 1" x 2" (approximately) data connector on the back with this layout: +---------------------+ | O O O O | | O O O O | | O O O O O O | | O O O O | + | O X O | + | O O O O | | O O O O O O | | O O O O | | O O O O | +---------------------+ Legend: O female connector X Connector screw hole in center of the recepticle + Guide holes where the hood would attach The data connector is similar to, but isn't, a V.35 connector. TIA for your help. Please respond via email or phone. Thanks! Lee Courtney (650) 964-7052 leec AT-SIGN slip DOT net

25 years, 10 months

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VXT2000 info needed

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Hi folks, I went to the Rochester Hamfest on 5 June. Amongst other radio and computer items I dragged home were two VXT2000 boxes. No displays or keyboards, just the pizza boxes. The guy literally gave them to me when I was at his fleamarket space as he was starting to packup and go home just because I was studying them intently (I never saw one before). That'll learn me not to stare so dang long at somethin' an' get nabbed by the owner! My wife was there too. She just rolled her eyes after the 'transaction'. At least she carried the NOS P54 motherboard and parts we found for my stepson's computer upgrade plus some radio parts and manuals after I got handed the VXT's. These I understand are X-terminals but I know nothing else about them. Searching the usual places for useful info only told me they were X-terms. Could anybody provide more info to a curious mind as to what the hardware details are, their typical usage, any other details, etc.? Specific model numbers are VX20A-AA and VX20A-BC. I see the -AA has color video output and the -BC is monochrome. Seem to be the only hardware diffs. Will the good old LK201 keyboard work with these? What about the mono video: will the VT240 mono monitor work with the -BC? Kinda classy-lookin' hardware inside. Useful for anything (seriously)? Off-list please as these are really less than 10 years old. Thanks in advance for your usual good info! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association Check our redesigned website! URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

25 years, 10 months

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pdp11/70 console manual.

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Erik: Thanks for the email. You'll need the Processor Handbook for the 11/70. It tells all about how to use the front panel. If you need schematics (probably not at this stage) then I can assist. I don't have the processor handbook, I suggest that you post on the classiccmp list and one of several people (Tony, Megan, Allison, Tim, ...) will likely respond with an offer to photocopy the relevant sections. I run a pdp-8 web site, one friend runs a pdp-11 web site on my machine. He may have posted the 11/70 manual in scanned form, or may have it and be able to scan it/copy it for you. Check out http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini. Good luck, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

25 years, 10 months

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VXT2000 info needed

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Christian, -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 7:59 PM Subject: VXT2000 info needed >These I understand are X-terminals but I know nothing else about them. >Searching the usual places for useful info only told me they were X-terms. Very nice X-Terminal. Even fast. Just got one of these one month ago and love to have it on my DECStation/NetBSD. >Could anybody provide more info to a curious mind as to what the hardware >details are, their typical usage, any other details, etc.? The VXT2000 is a little brother of the VAXStation 4000/90 (got the SGEC EThernet Chip form there) and the VAXStation 4000/vlc (got the CPU from there. Same CPU & Clock) > Specific model >numbers are VX20A-AA and VX20A-BC. I see the -AA has color video output and a resolution of 1280x1024x8 > and the -BC is monochrome. Seem to be the only hardware diffs. You can use the "standard" ps/2 simms in it. but only the 4MB pieces. >Will the good old LK201 keyboard work with these? Yes. > What about the mono video: will the VT240 mono monitor work with the -BC? NO, look at the resolution above :-(( >Kinda classy-lookin' hardware inside. Useful for anything (seriously)? YES. As a X-Terminal. Have fun, emanuel

25 years, 10 months

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VAXstation 3100

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Okay Allison, now you caught me with three heretofore unheard of terms: <Cvax, Nvax and SOC. What the heck are these definitions? My MVII: what ter <above applies to it? Microvaxen are all the same like 386, 486, P5, however they mostly differin technology used to make them. MVII is the first NMOS version. Cvax is a CMOS version that was about 2.4-3.0 faster. SOC is system on chip, more of the glue and larger cache are inside it. speed on this can run to greater tha 20x MVII. Nvax is Cvax with internal cache 3-8x MVII I listed them in order of speed. chopped from a list by: Paul Hardy (PGH), Product Manager (former Chief Programmer), Laser-Scan Ltd, Science Park, Milton Rd, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 4FY, England. ----+---+-----+-------+--------+--------------------------------+--------- SID | X | Id | Speed | Bus | Model Name | Nickname ----+---+-----+-------+--------+--------------------------------+--------- MicroVAX II series (1985) - Decimal SID = 134217728 --------+-------------- 08 | 1 | UV2 | 0.9 | Q | MicroVAX II,VAXstation II | Mayflower 08 | 1 | UV2 | 0.9 | Q | VAXstation II/GPX | Caylith 08 | 4 | 410 | 0.9 | none | MicroVAX 2000 | TeamMate 08 | 4 | 410 | 0.9 | none | VAXstation 2000 | VAXstar ----+---+-----+-------+--------+--------------------------------+----------- CVAX chip series (1987) - Decimal SID = 167772160 ----------+-------------- 0A | 4 | 420 | 2.8 | S | VAXstation 3100 models 30, 40 | PVAX 0A | 4 | 420 | 2.4 | S | MicroVAX 3100 models 10, 20 | Teammate II 0A | 4 | 420 | 3.5 | S | MicroVAX 3100 models 10e, 20e | Teammate II 0A | 4 | 420 | 3.8 | S | VAXstation 3100 models 38, 48 | PVAX rev#7 Rigel chip series (1990) - Decimal SID = 184549376 ---------+-------------- 0B | 4 | 43 | 7.6 | S | VAXstation 3100 model 76 | RigelMAX Mariah chip series (1991) - Decimal SID = 301989888 --------+------------ 12 | 4 | 46 | 12 | S | MicroVAX 3100 model 80 | Waverley/M 12 | 4 | 46 | 17 | S | MicroVAX 3100 model 85 | Waverley/M+ NVAX chip series (1991) - Decimal SID = 318767104 ----------+-------------- 13 | 4 | 49 | 24 | S | MicroVAX 3100 model 90 | Cheetah 13 | 4 | 49 | 32 | S | MicroVAX 3100 model 95 | Cheetah+ 13 | 4 | 49 | 38 | S | MicroVAX 3100 model 96 | Cheetah++ SOC chip series (1991) - Decimal SID = 335544320 -----------+-------------- 14 | 4 | 440 | 5.0 | S | MicroVAX 3100 models 30, 40 | Waverley/S Allison

25 years, 10 months

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VXT2000 info needed

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<items I dragged home were two VXT2000 boxes. No displays or keyboards, jus Neat little xterms that do DCE, LAT and IP protocals. <Will the good old LK201 keyboard work with these? What about the mono LK201 is good, there is a mouse too (round hawly mouse). Monitor is a VR315. I have one of these. Check to see that there is RAM still in it! Also the liitle rotary switch sets it for one of many monitors. <Off-list please as these are really less than 10 years old. They are close enough to 10 may be even over it. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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SWTPc 6800

by dogas＠leading.net

I finally got all the parts together (including a newly acquired ct-64 terminal) to start the 6800's restoration. I took several pictures that can be found at: http://millennial-concepts.com/dogas/swtpc.html :) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

25 years, 10 months

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VAXstation 3100

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I can pick up a VAXstation 3100 (just the box, no monitor/keyboard/etc). <Is this worth messing with? Yes for OSs there are three choices, VMS, Ultrix and NetBSD. There is a free license for the first one and the last one is not quite ready for prime time(unless you really like to work at it). <What's in it processor wise? Vax! Without a specific model number it's hard to be more specific. They are all VAX, the difference being speed and added performance. Of it's an older one it's like Cvax, later Nvax, most recent SOC. Most 3100s are SCSI for disks and tape, have eithernet and several serial ports so they can be quite useful for routers, mailservers, WWW servers and the like. < Can I rig it to a VGA monitor? Never tried, uses some high scan rates and very high resolution. However if that fails you can plug a terminal into the back and talk to it that way. <Should I let it pass? I'm biased, never! Allison

25 years, 10 months

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VAXstation 3100

by arfonrg＠texas.net

I can pick up a VAXstation 3100 (just the box, no monitor/keyboard/etc). Is this worth messing with? What's in it processor wise? Can I rig it to a VGA monitor? Should I let it pass? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

25 years, 10 months

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8-bits as terminals (Was: Serial Multiplexor)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>What would do you the most good is a DECServer 700 or some other TCP/IP >>compatible terminal server. This you can throw onto your LAN quite easily. >>Older DECServers (like the 200 and 300) can be put into service as well if >>you want to go to the trouble of enabling MOP boot support and LAT in >>your Linux box. >Hmmm.. that's kinda impossible for me because, things like DECServer 700 >don't pop up too often... That's OK - any DEC reseller will be glad to sell you something like a DECServer 700. Looking through the _Processor_ that came in the mail today I see some 16-port units with flash memory in the $1500-$2000 price range. They're *nice* terminal servers - you can even set them up as either end of a PPP connection and they'll route to/from your LAN! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years, 10 months

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VAXstation CDROM questions (again)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I assume the SCSI cable required is the old style 68? pin (female) Yes the M76 requires the 68pin at one end cable. Also JDR (WWW.JDR.COM) in California has 4x SCSI cdroms for a cheap $29.95 This might help others looking for SCSI cdroms. Don't know if that would work right with vaxen but it's cheap. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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8-bits as terminals (Was: Serial Multiplexor)

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

> >You know of one for $25.00? That doesn't require and IRQ for every port? See if your version of Linux supports Digiboards. If so I have a bunch but I will need time to make a list. They are 2, 4, 8 and 16 port version and the 8 and 16 port ones that I have played with so far you can run with either no interrupts under NT4. I only have a few cab kits however so you may have to make a cable set. I think I have the pinout info. Contact me off list for further details. Dan danburrows(a)mindspring.com dburrows(a)netpath.net

25 years, 10 months

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