<>According to a friend who worked in Field Circus, if the systems were
<>inside DEC, that made it much MORE likely that they were entirely
<>non-standard configurations that bear no relationship to the label
<>on the outside of the box.
;) you betcha. Us mill rats were hacking things together that made the
the infernal field circus nuts.
I worked for CSSE, the Field Circus engineering arm. Our cave was
terminals and printers to year 0. However I was one of those that
scrounged whereever I was for systems and put together some creative
combinations that were not warmly recieved by the PDP-11 CSSE group we
were colocated with. I can still hear Evans asking me how I got two
RL02s, 2 BA11 11/23s and RX02 in the same 40" rack then plugged a LN01
laser printer into it. He swore there was no compatable Qbus interface
for the laser printer till I showed him a LPV11 with a LPV180 cab kit!
There was the many examples of unsupported but works. Remnents of that
beast followed me around from '84 and still sits in my room in a different
rack.
Anywho, I've seen a lot of systems, the joke was missed on badge vs cpu
installed. Most if not all were never what the badge said they were.
If I wanted to be pendantic I do have the MicroPDP-11 handbooks. But like
I'd said and I think Tim said in the end it's the contents not the label
and whatever you do have, enjoy it. They are all in whatever current
incarnation may now be, good systems that meet the "Robust and mature
systems we know how to use." mantra.
Allison
>> Unless there was an upgrade option for the VT52 I don't know about, the
>> 'VT52' w/printer is actually designated the VT55.
>
>Not according to my docs (and the unit I have coupled up to my 11/45)
>
>The VT55 is a VT52 with a 'waveform generator' card. This is an option
>for plotting graphs, roughly compatible with the VT105. Basically, you
>can store 2 'heights' for each vertical dot-column on the screen, and
>either display a point at that height (for plotting mathematical
>functions) or all points below that height (for plotting barcharts). It
>gave a reasonable resolution for this, with very little memory.
>
>The electrolytic copier (wet paper printer) was an option for either the
>VT52 or the VT55 (and maybe other VT5x terminals). Most VT55s had it
>fitted. Most VT52s didn't. But all combinations were possible.
Thanks, I stand corrected. I guess I have just never seen a VT52 with the
copier, only VT55s. (Guess I had to be there... :-)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>That was the plan. I found that the 11/130 I have runs RT-11 quite
>nicely and it's the fastest of the tu58 based systems (uses an oddball
>parallel interface tu58).
And is that using the technique I developed for positioning files
on the TU58 to reduce latency on RT? I've had RT cold boot from TU58
in as little as 28 seconds...
>Think of it as more flexible... runnin for the door. ;)
Ahem...
>Seriously the hardware boys seemed to be just a touch off center for the
>realm. Even the VT180, a very good CPM engine design they left off
>two sided (rev-H has it but I've never seen a real one) and that crippled
>disk expansion to the denser two sided media.
Bounded System:
A system which would be usable if it could be expanded...
... but it can't because it's bounded.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
In a message dated 9/25/99 12:31:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jpero(a)cgocable.net writes:
> > In a message dated 9/24/99 11:00:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com writes:
> >
> > >
> > > To my mind the PS/1's all had a 2xxx-xxx designation. I have a 2011
> > > which is a 286. The monitor unit contains the PSU. It also had a
built-
> in
> > > 2400 modem. The 2021 is virtually identical but IIRC had more memory.
> > > I also have a 2123 and a 2133 which were 386's.
> >
> > 2133 3x3 case
> > 2155 5x5 case (bigger)
> > 2168 tower unit
>
> What about 2144's?
2144 are IBM aptiva models. 4 slot/4 bays
> >
> > 2011 and 2121 used special monitor with computer's power supply in it.
> > 2123 used either a ps2 model 30 or mod 55sx low profile case.
> > interesting fact: some midrange 486 ps/1 models were netware certified!
> >
> Trivia:
>
> Most of these PS/1s, VPs and Aptivas (especially 386, 486 and
> pentiums that used slot tree card and in tower cases with
> daughterslot board off the motherboard in H fashion.
> That said, this IBM interestingly used LPX factor form motherboards
> down to pinouts of the tree slot on board made by IBM or using
> non-ibm boards in their ibm-made cases.
>
> While on this thing, I'm looking for a used or busted PSU and tree
> slot board for my aptiva. Both parts are missing. The model is 2144
> type G-1 using intel board (Advanced/MN) that worked.
> Secondly, I have VP mod 638x series Type 1 motherboard (92F0388)
> needs writeback cache module 256K. Failing that, do anyone got a
> used either LPX factor form for pentium 60/66 or LPX pentium socket 7
> motherboard for sale? I do have the P5 66 cpu.
>
aptiva 2144-82p and 2144-86p were p60 models. probably wont have much luck
finding used parts on aptivas though although i did find a 2144-22p for $5
that works good. try www.direct.ibm.com that's IBM's parts counter.
> Would be wonderful for yours to shake down your friend network on
> this leads.
>
>Does anyone know of a company that is still setting external RF Modulators?
>This would be used to hook up the video output of a Apple ][ series
>computer to a standard TV. I know I could use a VCR, but i'd like to
>have a RF Modulator...
I picked up my latest Jameco catalog, and they've got two RF modulators
available. Both are switch selectable for Ch 3 or Ch 4.
Part No 135191 takes an 8VDC power supply, and is $3.95.
Part No 141639 takes a 12VDC power supply, and is $4.95.
For more info, see http://www.jameco.com/
I seem to recall a header connector in the Apple II specifically intended
for supplying modulator power. If this has 12VDC on it, you're set!
Jameco also has some other Apple II parts availble, including a replacement
II/II+/IIe power supply (Part no 22269) and a IIGS power supply
(Part no 85518).
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Does anyone know of a company that is still setting external RF Modulators?
This would be used to hook up the video output of a Apple ][ series
computer to a standard TV. I know I could use a VCR, but i'd like to
have a RF Modulator...
-Lawrence LeMay
lemay(a)cs.umn.edu
<I have model m35 (386sx and slc version do exist) that has ISA slots,
<m25 and m30 can either be 8088, 286 or SX. Model 40 used same board
<as m35 except more slots and more drive bays. To differeniate:
<starting model series based on MCA from ISA is m50 and up.
Ok... by the book:
PS2/m25 is a 8086 (xt class) with 3 ISA slots and floppies
PS2/M30 is the same with a hard disk.
That and the trackstar board was only availabel as ISA that I can find
data on. They were most commonly seen around here in Tandy 1000sx/ex
machines.
the PS1/m25 is 286 as are a slew of other PS1 ISA models but they
are somehow modeled as PS1 members of the PS2 family of PC systems.
Now we have a subspecies of a species I guess.
Bizzare but they are all 85xx-xxx! So much for consistant naming.
<BTW, all PS/2, many PS/1s, some Aptivas, any IBM machines were good
<made quality-wise even case components and circuit boards.
I have a PS2/25 (8530-001) and a PS2/m50z 8550-061 and they are certainly
well made and easy to work on. A lot of people like the ps2/m25s as they
were ISA and fast for XT with good video and a nice small pizza box.
the ugly ones (to some) were the integral monitor varients.
Allison
<>That was the plan. I found that the 11/130 I have runs RT-11 quite
<>nicely and it's the fastest of the tu58 based systems (uses an oddball
<>parallel interface tu58).
<
<And is that using the technique I developed for positioning files
<on the TU58 to reduce latency on RT? I've had RT cold boot from TU58
<in as little as 28 seconds...
That and the PDT11/130 parallel interface VS standard TU58 serial
interface. The PDT11 version of the TU58 is an oddity and becuase of the
parallel interface some of the serial versions buffer overflow and data
pasing issues are not a reality so you end up running closer to the
possible peak data rate with less host latency. The giveback is the
PDT11 uses the LSI-11 clearly the slowest of the PDP-11s (t11 can beat
it!) so if there is any procesing the tu58 is not the bottleneck anymore.
Allison
<>the 11/23 (m8186 dual) plus two MXV11s and a RQDX3 does work if you don't
<>mind using a tu58 to boot it!
<
<I've not tried an 11/23... but the 11/73 doesn't work for me...
Never tried the 11/73 as I never had one that was dual width.
<Why would you need a TU58 to boot the system if you have an RQDX3
<(supposedly attached to some disk)?
The disk and breakout were powered off a second ba11-v (the disk would
crush the PS current limit if the first box powered it). The TU58 booted
it as I didn't have a simple MSCP toggle in boot.
Allison
>;) you betcha. Us mill rats were hacking things together that made the
>the infernal field circus nuts.
Yep...
>I worked for CSSE, the Field Circus engineering arm. Our cave was
>terminals and printers to year 0. However I was one of those that
>scrounged whereever I was for systems and put together some creative
>combinations that were not warmly recieved by the PDP-11 CSSE group we
>were colocated with. I can still hear Evans asking me how I got two
>RL02s, 2 BA11 11/23s and RX02 in the same 40" rack then plugged a LN01
>laser printer into it. He swore there was no compatable Qbus interface
>for the laser printer till I showed him a LPV11 with a LPV180 cab kit!
>There was the many examples of unsupported but works. Remnents of that
>beast followed me around from '84 and still sits in my room in a
>different rack.
And I worked in the RT-11 development team, but was the 'procurement
division' (scrounger) who would collect parts and put together systems
in our lab (the Cave). I also got involved with a lot of the
reconfigurations when an SPR came in reporting a problem with a
specific configuration.
My best scrounge, though, was an 11/84 system built from parts found
in various locations around the Mill (I regularaly walked around the
Mill looking for discarded -11 parts)
>Anywho, I've seen a lot of systems, the joke was missed on badge vs cpu
>installed. Most if not all were never what the badge said they were.
>If I wanted to be pendantic I do have the MicroPDP-11 handbooks. But
>like I'd said and I think Tim said in the end it's the contents not the
>label and whatever you do have, enjoy it. They are all in whatever
>current incarnation may now be, good systems that meet the "Robust and
>mature systems we know how to use." mantra.
Not lost on me... I've got a couple of BA123 systems at home which
very clearly are uVAXII/GPX systems (badge) -- but one is an 11/83+
and the other is an 11/93. I also have a BA213-based box which
states it is an 11/83, but is a mongrel VS3600 (or so).
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>I've always run out of slots before running out of power.
>
>the 11/23 (m8186 dual) plus two MXV11s and a RQDX3 does work if you don't
>mind using a tu58 to boot it!
I've not tried an 11/23... but the 11/73 doesn't work for me...
Why would you need a TU58 to boot the system if you have an RQDX3
(supposedly attached to some disk)?
>For the pro350, not so for the PDT11/1xx.
Right...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Hi All:
New documents added to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8 this evening:
Core Memory Stack, 16K
Front Panel Control Board (LED)
PDP-8/E Front Panel Control Board (BULB)
16K 12 Bit Base Board (Core Control)
Memory Extension and Time Share Control
All documents are hardware print sets. Credit as usual goes to David
Gesswein for scanning this material.
Other new material includes documentation on the pdp-5 and the pdp-12.
Admittedly these are off topic, but the contributor, Al Kossow, thought
that highgate would be a good place to put the material!
Highgate also takes your submissions: if you have any docs or software on
the pdp-8 that is not included on the site, let me know and I will add it.
Kevin
==========================================================
Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department
E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544
Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
>I loved the VT11/VR17's on 11/34A's. Racal Redac used em for
>cad stations for circuit board design.
When I was at Worcester Polytech, I wrote a program for a class in
comptuer graphics which used the VT11/VR14 (on an 11/40) to design
simple logic circuits. There was a library of simple gates along
one side of the screen and one used the light pen to drag a part
onto the design grid and place it in position. Once all the parts
were on the grid, the inputs and outputs could be connected. And
there was a special input for a clocking signal, and other inputs
were supplied from the front panel switches. The state of the gates
was displayed in table form on screen and one could watch as the
circuit operated.
Pretty simple stuff, compared with *real* cad work... but it was
fun, and get me a good grade (and actually got me graphics work with
other departments at WPI)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Yeah, I checked, Jay's correct. There is only one input and it is for the
5272. The card, as I recall, is the main card and a hardwired daughter
card. I was hoping to us the setup in another system. But it was
obviously (when I opened the box) better left in the original
configuration.
It is a very nice adapter and monitor, if you can get one...
-Mike
----------
> From: Jay Jaeger <cube(a)msn.fullfeed.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: IBM 3270 PC
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 6:09 PM
>
> True, so long as you have the MONITOR. I believe the original
> correspondent did not have the monitor, and another correspondent
suggested
> that an ordinary monochrome monitor would work. Not true, AFAIK.
>
> Jay
>
> At 08:19 AM 9/24/99 -0600, you wrote:
> >I use my 3270 as a standard PC. The display adapter and monitor work
fine
> >with all software, even comes up in color with UCSD Pascal. No need to
pull
> >the works.
> >
> >-Mike
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Jay Jaeger <cube(a)msn.fullfeed.com>
> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> >Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:06 PM
> >Subject: Re: IBM 3270 PC
> >
> >
> >>The part quoted below about the display was incorrect. A true 3270 PC
used
> >>a special display adapter as well as
> >>a special keyboard adapter and some special expansion memory (cabled to
the
> >>keyboard adapter, if I recall
> >>correctly). However, you can pull all of that out, and you will have a
> >>more or less standard XT. You can leave the
> >>coax card in, if it suits your fancy, and you have a 327x controller
around
> >>somewhere... 8-)
> >>
> >>
> >>Jay
> >>
> >>
> >>At 04:45 AM 9/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>.The monitor should be a
> >>>regular green or amer mono unless a different video board was used as
an
> >>>aftermarket item.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>David Williams wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Got an urge to go to a thrift I haven't been to in a while and found
> >>>> what was labeled as a 3270 PC. Brought it home and opened it
> >>>> up. Looking at the boards inside I'd guess it was a 3270 PC as the
> >>>> label said. No keyboard or monitor. I'm guessing it used different
> >>>> ones than the normal PC. It has a hard disk, but have to pull it to
> >>>> see what type first and 2 half height 5.25" floppies. Not sure what
> >>>> software is on the drive. Anyone tell me anything else about this?
> >>>> Such as where to locate a keyboard and monitor, what each of the
> >>>> boards might be, etc. I can go into some detail on the cards if
> >>>> need be. Half appear to be normal drive controllers and serial
port,
> >>>> etc. Then there is one with a BNC connector and two others that
> >>>> have a small jumper board between them. Should I even keep it?
> >>>> Hmmmm....
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----
> >>>> David Williams - Computer Packrat
> >>>> dlw(a)trailingedge.com
> >>>> http://www.trailingedge.com
> >>>
> >>---
> >>Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
> >>Jay.Jaeger(a)msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube
> >>
> >
> ---
> Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
> Jay.Jaeger(a)msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube
I just picked up an 11/73 from a company that will also discard
the dual cabinet which contains 2 * RL02 drives. If you are going
to move on this, it MUST be before the end of September. They
are in Toronto and local pickup will be required. Is anyone interested?
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
<Remember.. the *PDT* was supposedly a smart terminal (at least the
<11/110 and 11/130 were little more than that)
That was the plan. I found that the 11/130 I have runs RT-11 quite
nicely and it's the fastest of the tu58 based systems (uses an oddball
parallel interface tu58).
<It is a member simply by virtue of the fact that the CPU is the same
<architecture. Nothing that was done in the PRO precluded that... it
<just took a little more programming to control anything since you had
<to program the interrupt controller...
Think of it as more flexible... runnin for the door. ;)
Seriously the hardware boys seemed to be just a touch off center for the
realm. Even the VT180, a very good CPM engine design they left off
two sided (rev-H has it but I've never seen a real one) and that crippled
disk expansion to the denser two sided media.
Allison
<The only problem with that plan is that with a CPU card (say, a KDJ11-A),
<memory and serial lines courtesy of an MXV11-B, and some sort of disk
<controller like an RQDX3 and the power draw crowbars the power supply.
<At least it has done so on every BA11-VA that I've tried...
I've always run out of slots before running out of power.
the 11/23 (m8186 dual) plus two MXV11s and a RQDX3 does work if you don't
mind using a tu58 to boot it!
<Well, they certainly aren't *typical* pdp-11s with a boot console that
<can be programmed like any other, or interrupts which work like other
<ones, and the console takes lots of code to emulate a VT100, that's for
<sure...
For the pro350, not so for the PDT11/1xx.
<they also have a *64*Hz clock... In RT-11, the clock interrupt service
<drops one clock tick out of every 16 -- so it only processes 60 clock
<ticks a second... :-)
Someday the hardware boys will get it.
Allison
I have just acquired a SOL-20. I will entertain appropriate trades for
it for a couple days before it goes on the block. If you are going to
VCF 3.0 or come thru LA, shipping can be avoided.
Regards,
Elmo
>Didn't check the MicroPDP-11 book on this one. All the 11/53 boxes I've
>seen either had 11/23B or the earlier no ram-nonPMI 11/73 cpu in them.
>Apparently that was a common configuration or the common path for the
>used boxes. in any case most of the 11/23 or 11/73 cpus work quite
>nicely in that box.
That may be the *boxes* which have been marked that way... which sounds
like someone was mislead (or the system reconfigured without someone
knowing)
*NO* 11/53[+] board that I know of has EVER had an F-11 on it. They
have all had J-11 (DCJ11) chips. The 11/53[+] has always been a quad
width board with two serial lines and either .5Mbyte (11/53) or 1.5Mbyte
(11/53+). It is known as the KDJ11-D (the -A is the dual-width
11/73 board, the -B is the quad width 11/83,84 board and the -E is
the quad width 11/93,94 board).
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Hi guys,
I'm new here, so be gentle! =;-)
I'm hopefully about to acquire a PET 8032 - the first PET I've ever owned
(I was six years old when they first came out). I'm told that it boots into
Basic 4.0, but the boot details are shown in lower case with the odd
incorrect character. Also, when typing, some characters come up on the
screen differently to the ones actually typed.
The vendor suggests it may just need a clean and the I/O chip re-seating -
but if it's something more complicated, is it still possible to buy
replacement chips? And, thinking longer-term, are replacement screens
possible to find these days (e.g. are they a standard size that you can
still buy off-the-shelf)?
Any suggestions gratefully received!
Gareth
>I seem to remember it being in a Terminals/Comms handbook (which I can't
>find at the moment :-(), where it claimed that the PDT11 was _not_ a
>PDP11, since it didn't have a Unibus/Qbus on it.
Remember.. the *PDT* was supposedly a smart terminal (at least the
11/110 and 11/130 were little more than that)
>The PDP11 Architecture Handbook is inconsistent. It describes the 'Two
>PDP11 Expansion Buses' but also calls the PRO300-series 'A PDP11 family
>member'.
It is a member simply by virtue of the fact that the CPU is the same
architecture. Nothing that was done in the PRO precluded that... it
just took a little more programming to control anything since you had
to program the interrupt controller...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>What about a BA11-V? That's a 4 (dual-height) Q-bus slot box. I'm sure
>the backplane can be made into a Q22 one if it isn't already. Then fill
>it with a CPU card, memory, serial ports and (say) a SCSI card.... Or
>even use it with a TU58 (it's the same physical size as the TU58, and the
>units are designed to stack).
The only problem with that plan is that with a CPU card (say, a KDJ11-A),
memory and serial lines courtesy of an MXV11-B, and some sort of disk
controller like an RQDX3 and the power draw crowbars the power supply.
At least it has done so on every BA11-VA that I've tried...
The only configuration I was able to get to work was two BA11-VAs, with
the Qbus jumper, CPU and MXV11-B in the first box and the RQDX3 and
DELQA in the second box... And that didn't reliably power-up
>At least one DEC book claims that a PDP11 has to have either a Unibus or
>Qbus expansion bus, and that the PRO3xx and PDT11s are not PDP11s because
>of this (for all they run the same instruction srt).
Well, they certainly aren't *typical* pdp-11s with a boot console that
can be programmed like any other, or interrupts which work like other
ones, and the console takes lots of code to emulate a VT100, that's for
sure...
they also have a *64*Hz clock... In RT-11, the clock interrupt service
drops one clock tick out of every 16 -- so it only processes 60 clock
ticks a second... :-)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Last-minute message:
The monthly TRW ham radio and electronics swap meet will be held
tomorrow, Saturday the 25, from 7:30 -> 11:30 Am USA/PST.
From the 405 (San Diego) fwy, take the Rosecrans exit West to
Avaiation, turn Left (south) and go about 1/2 mile... the Meet will
be on your right, in the southernmost parking lots.
Look me up: I'll be in spaces J21 and J23... Marvin will be there too.
Cheers
John
>I've got a few unibus cards that I can't find in the various on-line
>references, does someone have an early-70's handbook around that could
>give me some tips?
>G103
Memory voltage levels for MM11 and ME10
>G225
Current source for ME10 and MM11
>G226
XY selection switch for ME10 and MM11
>M2860
>M4801
I'm stumped by these two.
>M7290
In my book, this is simply labeled "M729 for 980 nsec memory".
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
<I seem to remember it being in a Terminals/Comms handbook (which I can't
<find at the moment :-(), where it claimed that the PDT11 was _not_ a
<PDP11, since it didn't have a Unibus/Qbus on it.
Didn't say it wasn't there. Only that at that time for marketing reasons
it was "improper" to call it a PDP-11.
<The PDP11 Architecture Handbook is inconsistent. It describes the 'Two
<PDP11 Expansion Buses' but also calls the PRO300-series 'A PDP11 family
<member'.
As I said. a few years later...
Allison
<In any case, if there was no other problem, feeding it a mistimed signal
<would most likely result in something on the screen - maybe not locked,
<probably not centred. But there would be _something_.
Therein lies the problem.
First the levels form most of the 1861 based designs are poor or sloppy.
The front and back porches are a bit wide. Likely the problem will be
solved when the said cosmac get's it's circuit fixed.
FYI: I have a cosmac design that has the 1861, the driver for the video
circuit was an emitter follower with a series resistor and no load to
ground. When hooled to a hign impedence input monitor (or with with the
75ohm load switched off) it produced no useable output. The fix was chnge
the output stated to have the correct DC offset and self completing. This
in the end was not a VR201 <or any other monitor> problem just a design that
deliberately minimized cost/components with attendant side effects.
Allison
I've got a few unibus cards that I can't find in the various on-line
references, does someone have an early-70's handbook around that could
give me some tips?
G103
G225
G226
M2860
M4801
M7290
Thanks,
Aaron
Hi Gang:
I'm interested in finding a card reader for my pdp-11 machines. There was
one advertised as available earlier this week, unfortunately it has been
claimed.
The CR11 and CM11 models are what I'm looking for - they're a desktop
variety that would work nicely with my current machines.
Anyone out there have one they will part with?
Kevin
==========================================================
Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department
E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544
Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> OK, you are sure you're giving it 12V still (the VR201 takes its power
> from the system unit when used in a standard DEC configuration).
Yes. I've got a PC PSU attached via my cable (which, again, works with an
Amiga 2000). I even hung a 3.5" HDD off the PSU to ensure a minimum load
on the +5V line to ensure proper +12V on the +12V line.
> Do you get _anything_ on the screen at all, even if you turn up the
brightness
> and contrast controls?.
Yes. I get background signal and a retrace image if I turn it all the way up,
whether the VIP is plugged in or not.
> What does your composite output from the RCA VIP
> look like on a 'scope?
I can see some negative pulses, a stronger line at 0VDC, some schmutz that
looks like video data between the sync pulses. It has the general appearance
of NTSC mono data. When I attach a Commodore 1084S to the VIP, I get exactly
what I expect: digital block noise (from random memory garbage in the VIP at
power on) and 1" tall numbers when I tap commands on the keypad.
> Can it drive the 75 Ohm input impedance of the VR201?
Dunno. How can I tell? I have the VIP schematics. Is there something I
can do with this?
> Is there a large DC offset on the signal?
How would I spot it? The sync pulses are below the 0VDC base line, there _is_
a baseline and the noisy stuff is above the base line. Is that what I'm
looking
for?
There is a mention in the manual about tuning a resistor or two for the sake
of certain brands of RF Modulators. Perhaps the signal isn't hot enough to
tickle the VR-201?
> The VR201s I've looked inside use a standard TDA1180/TDA1170 circuit.
> They should be able to lock to 15720Hz (in fact I think I've had them locked
> to 15625Hz, which is the UK TV horizontal frequency). Even if they
> couldn't, there would still be something on the screen.
There appears to be a beam; there is assuredly heat on the cathode, there is
no VIP data on the screen.
This VR201 works with my DECMate II perfectly well. It also works with an
A2000 w/my custom cable. The VIP works with its own cable to another
composite monitor. The only combination that does not work is my custom
cable between a VIP and the VR-201; that path is what I'm trying to debug.
Thanks,
-ethan
=====
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<Which series is most compact (sized for desktop or tower style) pdp
An 11/53 thats a 11/23 cpu in a BA23 box. About 6Wx28Hx30D and an easy
110v outlet. With a RD52(30mb) and a RX50 floppy you can run most any
PDP11 OS including unix (starting with 2.9 or 2.11).
The other choice is a BA123 (end table) with a 11/23 or 11/73 in it. Fast
and plenty of disk drives, not to hard on power(110V 600Wmax).
If you want something really low power, a PRO350 (or 380) that's a PDP11
or a PDT11/150 (tiny and very low power, less than bigger PCs).
PDP-11 line run from the really big like the 11/70 down to a single board
(falcon card T-11 cpu, 2 serial, Parallel, 2kw ram, rom, one dual card!).
So having a PDP-11 os some sort is very possible and they are all for the
most part PDP-11s differing mostly in speed, IO and maximum memory.
Allison
Before I forget, last week I saw a BA213 with a M9405 and three M9047
in it. The module database at <http://www.neurotica.com/dec-info/>
is down, it appears, and I can't find another link like it right now.
The unit was $20 at the UW-Madison (Wisconsin) surplus SWAP shop,
open Fridays 8 to 2.
- John
What do those things have in common? Apparently not much. I was attempting
to lighten my load for the VCF and I ran across a small problem. I have this
cable I made to use a VR201 with an Amiga. It works. I even tested it tonight
to eliminate sources of failure. When I try to hook a COSMAC VIP up to it, I
get nothing. The numbers (from the RCA 1861 spec sheets) look like this:
NTSC 1861 @ 1.76064 Mhz 1861 @ 1.764000 Mhz 1861 @ 3.579545/2
-------- ------------------ ------------------- -----------------
Line 15750 Hz 15720 Hz 15750 Hz 15980 Hz
Field 60 Hz 60 Hz 60.11 Hz 60.99 Hz
The xtal in the VIP is 3.521280 Mhz (2 x 1.76064 Mhz). It seems that the
VR201 is sensitive to a 30 Hz difference in the horizontal freq. Barring
the chance that I can locate a 3.528 Mhz xtal before the VCF, am I hosed
here? I had hoped on using either my VR201 or one brought to the show by
a kind soul. As it stands now, I'll have to hope for a kind soul to help
me with a standard NTSC monitor (I've just tested the VIP with a more
ordinary Commodore 1084S).
Can any video guru's shed any light on my dilemma? Is the VR201 that
sensitive? Is there a way to get around this?
Thanks,
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
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erd(a)iname.com
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On Sep 24, 8:48, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
> > the RAM (typically 1.5MB) and its performance is more like an 11/73
than an
> > 11/23. You'd need BSD 2.11 to have any hope of MSCP support for RDxx
or
> > RX50.
>
> Pete,
>
> You forgot to tell him about PUPS! sheesh, even if you not into unix you
> need to add that to your PDP-11 list of good information sources.
>
> ...I'm not home so I don't have the address. ;)
Oops, yes, that's a bit of an omission... see
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/index.html
As (I think) Allison knows, I have an 11/83 running 2.11BSD and an 11/23
running Seventh Edition, as well as several other 11s.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On Sep 24, 8:46, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: PDP 11/70s For Sale
> > No, an 11/53 isn't an 11/23, it uses a J-11 on a board which also
includes
> > the RAM (typically 1.5MB) and its performance is more like an 11/73
than an
> > 11/23. You'd need BSD 2.11 to have any hope of MSCP support for RDxx
or
> > RX50.
>
> Didn't check the MicroPDP-11 book on this one. All the 11/53 boxes I've
> seen either had 11/23B or the earlier no ram-nonPMI 11/73 cpu in them.
> Apparently that was a common configuration or the common path for the
used
> boxes.
The microPDP-11/53 uses a specific 11/53 CPU board design with a J-11,
SLUs, memory, and boot ROMs on one board. There's no reason you couldn't
put an 11/23B in there instead, but 11/53s were never made with F-11
processors, so the ones you've seen must have been downgraded -- or have
had the badge replaced :-) The cabinet is of course the same BA23 as the
microPDP-11/23 and microPDP-11/73.
> in any case most of the 11/23 or 11/73 cpus work quite nicely in
> that box.
They certainly would, of course.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Hi,
I talked to parasoft and they agreed to freely release express for
non-commercial use. Unfortunately, they lost the binaries a long time
ago. So, does anyone have a copy for the following architectures:
Transputers
Parsytec
Meiko
Once I get it, I'll post a copy on my webpage at
http://members.xoom.com/transputer
BTW, if you dont know what express is, it is a communication library for
parallel computers (similar to MPI & PVM) and it supports a wide range
of computers. A lot of interesting software was ported to express at
one time (but nowadays, everything is MPI & PVM).
Ram
--
,,,,
/'^'\
( o o )
-oOOO--(_)--OOOo-------------------------------------
| Ram Meenakshisundaram
| Senior Software Engineer
| OpenLink Financial Inc
| .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267
| ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks(a)olf.com
---\ (----( )--------------------------------------
\_) ) /
(_/
Sounds like a few people need to do a subfeed like I did for the test beds here.
100A dedicated panel mounted directly behind the 9 bay 6 foot tall rack. That
panel will one day be fed from the 10KVA UPS I just have to get new batteries
for.
This sub feed is off a 200A feed that is for my office only.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: PDP 11/70s For Sale
> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com>
> To: jpero(a)cgocable.net
> Subject: Re: PDP 11/70s For Sale
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:47:52 -0400
> On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, you wrote:
> >Well, what's the physical requirements of that 11/70 machine
> >(functional state, power etc?)
>
> Well, the 11/70 processor itself is a chassis that takes up half of a 6'
> rack. It pulls out and the boards go in vertically into the left side,
> co-planar with the front of the rack.
Groan...to have complete system needs one rack... that pretty large
by my space standards. But my eyes lits up on that 70 lights...
whew!
Which series is most compact (sized for desktop or tower style) pdp
or vax and only needs one wall power cord to run whole thing
(including storage built in).
Current draws snipped. Even I did manage to bull through my parents
and did gotten that 11/70, breakers will trip every time I power just
the cpu itself up. I throw out flames at my parents every time they
accidently tripped the breaker with that ac unit making my computer
go out, all plugs in my bedroom and few in living room including my
alarm clock and shop computer go dead. I hated this apt even it's
located in nice location, nice people. But I do have 2 negatives
about this apt, floor is very bouncy for a uneven cement floor (too
thin?) and too few breakers on too many circuits attached. Landlord
turned down the request to put insolated circuit and a breaker just
for ac even we did pay the electrican ourselves. Lots of space in
that breaker box, 5 spaces left actually.
> Well worth it, though...upwards of seventy LEDs on that front panel, all
> merrily blinking away...fast machine, too. An excellent design. I *will* own
> another one someday.
Thanks. :-)
Wizard
>
> -Dave
>
>
--- Jay West <jlwest(a)tseinc.com> wrote:
> Any cloth I've tried around the
> house doesn't seem to be "lint-free", and leaves many little threads and
> stuff behind. Has anyone found any common cloths that don't do this? I was
> wondering about an old undershirt, etc. Ideas?
Don't use an "around the house" cloth. The right tool for the job are
laboratory "Kimwipes". They are non-woven, truely lint-free wipes for
labware. I know of FE's who have cleaned RK packs with a squeeze bottle
of isopropyl (95%+ IIRC, not 70%) and Kimwipes.
Besides a chem lab, I don't know where to get them, but they are what you
want. I wish I had a box.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com>
>>They're gone. Thanks for the fast responses.
>
>MAN! I'd hate to see what would happen if someone dropped a box of donuts
>in front of this group. ;)
>
Or, your wallet! :-)
Jim Rossbach, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, www.TonkinYachts.cjb.net
The astonishing thing was that the newsperson managed to say "Authorities
*suspect* alcohol was involved" with a straight face.
Here's another installment in the ongoing HP7900A drive saga (yes, it's a
plea for advice and/or sympathy <grin>)
Installed new (refurbed) lower heads and new lower platter. Recleaned inside
of drive. Powered up, put in new removable cartridge. Hit load switch and
waited 25 seconds, then hit unload. Did this a few times (the blowers and
drive spins up, but the heads don't load for 30 seconds - did this to get
any remaining particles out). Removed cartridge, powered down, removed
covers and reinspected everything inside. All looked well (including heads,
which were fully retracted).
So, this time I powered up and hit load. Waited 30 seconds, heard the heads
move out to cylinder 0. Ran drive like this for about 3 minutes, no problem.
Hit unload. When I removed the removable cartridge, I noticed the heads
weren't quite retracted all the way. They were well off the media, but not
all the way back home (the heads weren't touching each other, but they were
close). Manually pushed the heads back, rechecked everything I could find.
Repowered up the drive, after 30 seconds the heads loaded. Drive ready lite
comes on and ran for about 15 minutes. No HDI sounds at all. I was elated.
Hit unload, and after about 20 seconds heard very soft HDI. This time I left
the cartridge in, powered everything off, removed the covers, and this time
the heads weren't retracted at all. They were sitting right on the media.
Strange thing is, there's no marks on the media, the lower heads I replaced
look pristine, and the upper heads have only the very slightest indication
of oxide.
Gee - perhaps this is why the drive originally had a head crash before I got
it? I've been through the "theory of operation" text and flowcharts. Several
things confuse me. First, I thought that hitting the unload switch was
pretty much of an immediate voice coil retraction - I didn't think this went
through all the normal logic circuits. Second, the coil can't be completely
shot I wouldn't think, because as I understand it the drive ready light
won't even come on unless the positioner moves out to cyl 0 correctly.
Before I replaced the heads and media, I don't THINK I had this problem, I
think I would have noticed if the heads weren't retracting before. But, I
can't imagine that anything I did related to replacing the lower head set
and the lower platter would have anything to do with this. Input anyone?????
TIA!
Jay West
All of the PDP 11/70's I have seen seemed to sprawl to fit all of the
available space with a few peripherals on the floor or on a cart nearby.
The PDP 11/70 that I used the most between 1977 to 1982 was configured in 4
bays and a RP04.
Bay 1
CPU with 2 8" floppy drives above
Bay 2
expansion chassis with 2 DZ11 terminal multiplexors
and TU58 cassette tape
Bay 3
4 RK05 drives
Bay 4
TU10 tape drive
The RP04 sat next to the CPU. For RP04 backups we carried the disk packs to
another building and made a copy.
Initially the system disk was one of the RK05 drives. Each users programs
were on another RK05 and our data was swapped in and out on the two
remaining RK05's. When we first received the RP04 we configured it to look
like multiple RK05 drives to fit our software and database scheme.
We considered the 11/70 a "hot machine" especially after the PDP 11/35 we
had originally. It was a race horse and had 320 K words of memory!!! We had
6 programmers, 1 operator, 2 Versatec plotters and a Printronix P300 on the
system. Each user had their own VT52!!!! Later we had several VT100's.
Compiles took less than 1 minute. OH for the glory days.
We collected microbiology data from PDP 11/05's and PDP 11/04's on cassette
tape until we started using the 8" floppies. Each PDP 11/05 or 11/04 had a
VT52 with an internal wet paper printer.
Mike McFadden
026/029 card puncher, assembly programmer, Fortran programmer, datatrieve
programmer, hardware guy, VT05 user, VT52 user, VT100 user, PDP 15 user, PDP
11/20 user, PDP 11/50 user, PDP 11/35 user. Interdata 7/32 user, Interdata
8/32 user, Old computer user
You're aware, aren't you, that you can get them as replacement parts via
www.imsai.net?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:28 AM
Subject: IMSAI switches at VCF?
>Is anybody going to be selling replacement IMSAI
>switches at VCF?
>
>
hat's interesting because mine has a 10MB drive buit in. I didn't think
they came without HDs because they needed the terminal software, etc...
-----Original Message-----
From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: IBM 3270 PC
I think I've seen the monitors before too. I may have seen the
keyboard once long ago. But I already have an IBM PC which I
use to play around with CP/M-86 so wasn't sure if I wanted to keep
this. Of course the PC is a PC and not an XT. It doesn't have the
hard drive on it so maybe I'll use this one as a CP/M-86 machine
now.
On 24 Sep 99, at 8:33, Mike Allison wrote:
> I sometimes see the monitors. They're VERY obvious. They are large with
> an oversize square-ish case and a built in swivel stand. I'm not looking
> at the monitor right now, so I forget what the plate says on it. But it
> also has a big red toggle switch. You can see them from miles away.
>
> Again, I believe there are other adapter plugs on the board, so other
> monitors would work...
>
> I've been running CPM-86 as well as other weird stuff on it. It's real
> IBM so that early software runs well and correctly on the 3270...
>
> -mike
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
The Corona Data Systems portable is a bit historic in that they copied
the IBM PC BIOS without license from IBM and got sued out of existence.
If anyone wants this then please contact the owner directly.
Reply-to: jfenker(a)teleport.com
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Puttin' the smack down on the man!
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details
[Last web site update: 09/17/99]
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:18:57 -0700
From: John Fenker <jfenker(a)teleport.com>
To: donate(a)vintage.org
Subject: Corona Data System double floppy IBM Compatible PC
I have a Corona Data System PPC 22 portable computer about the size of a
small suitcase with a built-in 9" monitor [like an Osborn with a slightly
larger screen]. If you folks would like to have it, I will send it. I may
be able to dredge up an owner's guide or the like, if you think it would be
worth the effort.
I haven't had the heart to discard it; it had the most readable display I
have ever had for word processing. I used Multimate, of course, to go with
the Wang system at work. If you wish, I'll grub around for the program
floppies for Multimate.
Let me know at your convenience what to send and where. My wife will be so
thrilled!
John A Fenker
P.O. Box 6278
Vancouver, WA 98668
jfenker(a)teleport.com
--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote:
> > But I have no idea how big this 11/70 would be?
>
> A couple of points:
>
> 1. The 11/70 CPU itself weighs 400-500 pounds, in its cabinet with
> power supplies. Several fairly hefty guys can roll a CPU around
> and tip it into a trailer, for example. (Hi Elmo!)
It's lots of fun, trust me.
> 3. Memory boxes weigh about 80-100 pounds each. A fully equipped
> system with core memory boxes (2 Mwords of core) requires 8 memory
> boxes. Solid state memory is more dense, and depending on exactly which
> generation of memory boards you might only need two memory boxes
> for a usable configuration.
Mine have a single BA-11-sized box with 16 256K boards (full of 4116
chips) in a second cabinet.
> And Massbus disk drives (as were mentioned in the original post)
> are the size of a washing machine and weigh several hundred pounds.
> You'll need at least two disk drives for any real usage.
I've got Systems Industries SI-9900 controllers (5" x 19" x 30") and
Fuji Eagles. One short cab is enough to hold 800Mb - 1.2Gb.
Real DEC RM03's are 67Mb and the same volume.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
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Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
In case you missed it, it sold for 109.50. I bid on it
but didn't win. Before the auction, I was hoping that
nobody would show up at the VCF with a stack of them
for sale. Now I hope somebody does...
Howdy,
This is sort of specific to Houston, so everyone else can delete now.
I have a friend who is need of a 19" rack. Doesn't have to be anything
fancy, just a good sturdy rack. Where would be the best place to
find/scrounge/whatever one of these beasts? (without calling rittal
and paying big bucks)
Any hints appreciated.
Kelly
KFergason(a)aol.com
--- allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
> But vr201 is not NSTC timing or scan rates.
Sure it is. I'm driving this one from an Amiga 2000, right off the mono RCA
jack on the back. I made a cable with a DB-15 connector for the VR-201 end
and an RCA jack and HDD power socket for the Amiga end. I fire up the Amiga
to see the animation of the kickstart disk self-inserting.
> No way. It's not the 30hz in frequency it's the serperate sync and
> different front and back porch timing.
Front and back porch timing I can perhaps see. There is no seperate sync
on a VR201. It has a pin for Mono Composite In. I'd post the pin-out, but
it's at home and I'm not.
> It's a misapplication, Vr201 is not a generic monitor.
I realize that the VR-201 is not generic, but it is handy when I need a
mono monitor in a semi-portable situation (I once took my A2000 in the
Bomac tower case to an Amiga show in Columbus and ran it with this VR-201
to save space)
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>Didn't check the MicroPDP-11 book on this one. All the 11/53 boxes I've
>seen either had 11/23B or the earlier no ram-nonPMI 11/73 cpu in them.
Well, then, none of those were actually 11/53's :-).
It reminds me of the folks who have a MicroVAX system living inside
a BA23 or BA123 with the "Micro PDP-11" badge on front of it. The
badge doesn't mean a damn thing, it's what is living in the box
that counts!
Tim.
>Before I forget, last week I saw a BA213 with a M9405 and three M9047
>in it.
M9047's are grant continuity cards (no circuitry, just PC boards
with pins on the edge connector jumpered together to pass interrupt
and DMA signals to the next slot.)
A M9405 is a Q22-bus cable connector. This is what you use to hook
multiple Q-bus chassis together into a multi-box system. On the
other end of the cable you need a M9404.
For information on connecting multiple Q-bus systems together, telling
you which variants on the M9405 and M9404 cards you'll need for specific
CPU/backplane combinations, see Micronote 29, "Q-bus Expansion Concepts", at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/microno…
> The module database at <http://www.neurotica.com/dec-info/>
>is down, it appears, and I can't find another link like it right now.
You want the "Field Guide to Q-bus and Unibus Modules", at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardwar…
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
> But I have no idea how big this 11/70 would be?
A couple of points:
1. The 11/70 CPU itself weighs 400-500 pounds, in its cabinet with
power supplies. Several fairly hefty guys can roll a CPU around
and tip it into a trailer, for example. (Hi Elmo!)
2. An 11/70 by itself is pretty much useless. There's no memory
inside the CPU box (in a "conventional" configuration) and there's
no peripherals either.
3. Memory boxes weigh about 80-100 pounds each. A fully equipped
system with core memory boxes (2 Mwords of core) requires 8 memory
boxes. Solid state memory is more dense, and depending on exactly which
generation of memory boards you might only need two memory boxes
for a usable configuration.
4. Now you need peripherals. You'll almost certainly need a
BA11 Unibus box tacked onto the CPU, this is another 70-80 pounds.
And Massbus disk drives (as were mentioned in the original post)
are the size of a washing machine and weigh several hundred pounds.
You'll need at least two disk drives for any real usage.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Got an urge to go to a thrift I haven't been to in a while and found
what was labeled as a 3270 PC. Brought it home and opened it
up. Looking at the boards inside I'd guess it was a 3270 PC as the
label said. No keyboard or monitor. I'm guessing it used different
ones than the normal PC. It has a hard disk, but have to pull it to
see what type first and 2 half height 5.25" floppies. Not sure what
software is on the drive. Anyone tell me anything else about this?
Such as where to locate a keyboard and monitor, what each of the
boards might be, etc. I can go into some detail on the cards if
need be. Half appear to be normal drive controllers and serial port,
etc. Then there is one with a BNC connector and two others that
have a small jumper board between them. Should I even keep it?
Hmmmm....
Thanks.
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
On Sep 23, 23:17, Allison J Parent wrote:
> Subject: Re: PDP 11/70s For Sale
> <Which series is most compact (sized for desktop or tower style) pdp
>
> An 11/53 thats a 11/23 cpu in a BA23 box. About 6Wx28Hx30D and an easy
> 110v outlet. With a RD52(30mb) and a RX50 floppy you can run most any
> PDP11 OS including unix (starting with 2.9 or 2.11).
No, an 11/53 isn't an 11/23, it uses a J-11 on a board which also includes
the RAM (typically 1.5MB) and its performance is more like an 11/73 than an
11/23. You'd need BSD 2.11 to have any hope of MSCP support for RDxx or
RX50.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
> Huh? Is the CPU chip on an 11/53 card an F-11? If so, is it the same
All the ones I've seen. Either F11 11/23b or it can have the early J11
either on a quad width no ram board with one or two serial lines.
> IIRC, there is no MSCP support in 2.9. I have it (from waaay back, not
> via PUPS) and ISTR having to load it onto RL drives, RK drives or RP
> drives (or third-party XP (SMD) drives). I forget about 2.10BSD. I'm
> certain that 2.11BSD supports MSCP, but might not be so happy on an 11/23
> unless you've got at least 1 Meg.
I knew it was either 2.9 or 2.11 that could run MSCP I just couldn't
remember which or both. I run V7 with RL02 so what do I know. ;)
Allison
In a message dated 9/24/99 11:00:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com writes:
>
> To my mind the PS/1's all had a 2xxx-xxx designation. I have a 2011
> which is a 286. The monitor unit contains the PSU. It also had a built-in
> 2400 modem. The 2021 is virtually identical but IIRC had more memory.
> I also have a 2123 and a 2133 which were 386's.
2133 3x3 case
2155 5x5 case (bigger)
2168 tower unit
2011 and 2121 used special monitor with computer's power supply in it.
2123 used either a ps2 model 30 or mod 55sx low profile case.
interesting fact: some midrange 486 ps/1 models were netware certified!
>> An 11/53 thats a 11/23 cpu in a BA23 box.
>
>Huh? Is the CPU chip on an 11/53 card an F-11? If so, is it the same
>speed as an 11/23? I have 11/23 dual-height CPUs, 11/23+ quad-height
>CPUs, but no 11/53 (nor 11/73) CPUs. I did see one about 11 years ago
There are 2 basic versions of the 11/53 CPU. They both have 2 serial ports.
1 has 1/2 meg on board the other has 1.5 meg on board. They are both
available with Sbox handles for use in BA213's. If you are looking for one
keep your eyes open for DECserver 500 and 550's. The 500's use the 1/2 meg
version and the 550's use the 1.5 meg. There is some difference in the
firmware used on the DECserver CPU's from the usual PDP11/53 but I have
never taken the time to play with them. I just put in the PDP11 firmware
and run them.
Dan
On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>Huh? Is the CPU chip on an 11/53 card an F-11? If so, is it the same
>speed as an 11/23? I have 11/23 dual-height CPUs, 11/23+ quad-height
>CPUs, but no 11/53 (nor 11/73) CPUs. I did see one about 11 years ago
Nope...the 11/53 is a J11-based quad board with some memory and SLUs. I have
a couple of them here in BA23s, waiting to turn them into BSD2.x boxes. I like
'em.
-Dave McGuire
I found this article in the September 22 issue of the Montreal
Gazette:
ST. LAURENT SUED FOR COMPUTER-FIRM RAID
George Kalogerakis
Gazette Justice Reporter
------------------------
A computer recycling firm is suing the city of St. Laurent for
$36 million, saying the municipality destroyed millions of dollars
in computer parts when it sent backhoes into the company's
warehouse.
Backhoes broke through the garage doors of A1 Vente Ordinateurs'
building on Stinton St. on Thursday morning, the lawsuit says.
The machines then used their shovels to scoop up computers stored
inside and drop them into waiting dump trucks.
This went on until A1 got a court injunction to stop the raid
that afternoon. The city's crew returned Friday morning, and A1
obtained a second injunction Friday afternoon, halting all
operations.
St. Laurent city officials were not available for comment last
night.
The equipment was sent in as part of a zoning dispute between
A1 and the city.
St. Laurent has criticized the company for stockpiling discarded
high-tech parts outside in an unsightly manner. It also claimed
A1 was illegally using the site as a truck depot.
So they went to court. In August, Superior Court Justice Vital
Cliche ordered A1 to suspend operations and clean up the outside
site.
The company was given 30 days. If it didn't do the work, the
city would and make A1 pay the costs.
A1 general manager Mike Brown said yesterday the cleanup was
done. It cost $8000 for trucks to haul away all the discarded
parts, enough to cover a football field.
Brown said A1 buys computer salvage by the truckload from
bankruptcies and governments. What can be reused is stored in
the warehouse while the junk is left outside.
Court papers filed by A1 say the firm had complied with the
cleanup order.
But the city arrived Thursday at 7 a.m. and broke into the
warehouse, which was not part of the judge's cleanup order, Brown
argued.
The 14,000 square-foor building is usually filled with 8-foot-
high stacks of good computer parts, to be sold to brokers or
repair shops that need parts.
"They just destroyed it all and then took it all away," Brown
said.
He added about three-quarters of the computer stock had been
hauled away as garbage by the time A1 got its injunction on
Friday. What remained was about $10 million in stock.
Brown said that's why A1 is suing St. Laurent for $36 million -
$30 million for the computers that were hauled away and $6 million
in damages.
He said videotape and photographs taken by staff can prove
the city acted maliciously.
For example, he said, the warehouse is split in two. In the
front is a display area with offices on the second floor while
the back is the storage space.
Workers sent by the city were pushing computer equipment off
the second storey, where it fell 15 feet onto the concrete floor.
He also claimed people were taking computer screens and putting
them in their personal cars.
--
Doug Spence Hrothgar's Cool Old Junk Page:
hrothgar(a)total.net http://www.total.net/~hrothgar/museum/
--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote:
> <Which series is most compact (sized for desktop or tower style) pdp
>
> An 11/53 thats a 11/23 cpu in a BA23 box.
Huh? Is the CPU chip on an 11/53 card an F-11? If so, is it the same
speed as an 11/23? I have 11/23 dual-height CPUs, 11/23+ quad-height
CPUs, but no 11/53 (nor 11/73) CPUs. I did see one about 11 years ago
as I was trying not to see it on my way out the door to start my two week
camping vacation. It was quad-height with some quantity of RAM on it
(1Mb? 1.5Mb?) The worst part about that experience is that the boss was
trying to leave, too; and it was a disk replacement job on a MUMPS box. :-P
> With a RD52(30mb) and a RX50 floppy you can run most any
> PDP11 OS including unix (starting with 2.9 or 2.11).
IIRC, there is no MSCP support in 2.9. I have it (from waaay back, not
via PUPS) and ISTR having to load it onto RL drives, RK drives or RP
drives (or third-party XP (SMD) drives). I forget about 2.10BSD. I'm
certain that 2.11BSD supports MSCP, but might not be so happy on an 11/23
unless you've got at least 1 Meg.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
for those of you interested in 3270, there's a card on eBay right now,
exactly like the one I recently offered for $3.20 (the postage for priority
mail).
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Jaeger <cube(a)msn.fullfeed.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: IBM 3270 PC
>The part quoted below about the display was incorrect. A true 3270 PC used
>a special display adapter as well as
>a special keyboard adapter and some special expansion memory (cabled to the
>keyboard adapter, if I recall
>correctly). However, you can pull all of that out, and you will have a
>more or less standard XT. You can leave the
>coax card in, if it suits your fancy, and you have a 327x controller around
>somewhere... 8-)
>
>
>Jay
>
>
>At 04:45 AM 9/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>.The monitor should be a
>>regular green or amer mono unless a different video board was used as an
>>aftermarket item.
>
>
>
>>David Williams wrote:
>>
>>> Got an urge to go to a thrift I haven't been to in a while and found
>>> what was labeled as a 3270 PC. Brought it home and opened it
>>> up. Looking at the boards inside I'd guess it was a 3270 PC as the
>>> label said. No keyboard or monitor. I'm guessing it used different
>>> ones than the normal PC. It has a hard disk, but have to pull it to
>>> see what type first and 2 half height 5.25" floppies. Not sure what
>>> software is on the drive. Anyone tell me anything else about this?
>>> Such as where to locate a keyboard and monitor, what each of the
>>> boards might be, etc. I can go into some detail on the cards if
>>> need be. Half appear to be normal drive controllers and serial port,
>>> etc. Then there is one with a BNC connector and two others that
>>> have a small jumper board between them. Should I even keep it?
>>> Hmmmm....
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> David Williams - Computer Packrat
>>> dlw(a)trailingedge.com
>>> http://www.trailingedge.com
>>
>---
>Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
>Jay.Jaeger(a)msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube
>>>> Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> 09/21 11:33 AM >>>
>
>
>On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote:
>
>>
>> BTW, thanks so much for scanning and sending me the WD-1002
>> docs. I'm looking foreward to seeing the other documents
>> you have planned to scan as they become available.
>>
>> Thanks Dick!
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>
>I concur completely!
>
> - don
>
It seems that this thread has lost its thread. Still looking for an I.D. on the following:
http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/plate.jpg
Wayne
!
!
!
> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com>
> To: jpero(a)cgocable.net
> Subject: Re: PDP 11/70s For Sale
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:47:52 -0400
> On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, you wrote:
> >Well, what's the physical requirements of that 11/70 machine
> >(functional state, power etc?)
>
> Well, the 11/70 processor itself is a chassis that takes up half of a 6'
> rack. It pulls out and the boards go in vertically into the left side,
> co-planar with the front of the rack.
Groan...to have complete system needs one rack... that pretty large
by my space standards. But my eyes lits up on that 70 lights...
whew!
Which series is most compact (sized for desktop or tower style) pdp
or vax and only needs one wall power cord to run whole thing
(including storage built in).
Current draws snipped. Even I did manage to bull through my parents
and did gotten that 11/70, breakers will trip every time I power just
the cpu itself up. I throw out flames at my parents every time they
accidently tripped the breaker with that ac unit making my computer
go out, all plugs in my bedroom and few in living room including my
alarm clock and shop computer go dead. I hated this apt even it's
located in nice location, nice people. But I do have 2 negatives
about this apt, floor is very bouncy for a uneven cement floor (too
thin?) and too few breakers on too many circuits attached. Landlord
turned down the request to put insolated circuit and a breaker just
for ac even we did pay the electrican ourselves. Lots of space in
that breaker box, 5 spaces left actually.
> Well worth it, though...upwards of seventy LEDs on that front panel, all
> merrily blinking away...fast machine, too. An excellent design. I *will* own
> another one someday.
Thanks. :-)
Wizard
>
> -Dave
>
>
Hi Group:
This fellow contacted me via email. He has 2 '11s (other info not known)
available for free in Utah.
Contact him via email if you're interested.
Kevin
>Return-Path: <dnyman(a)cache.net>
>From: David Nyman <dnyman(a)cache.net>
>Reply-To: "dnyman(a)cache.net" <dnyman(a)cache.net>
>To: "'mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca'" <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca>
>Subject: DEC PDP-11
>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:30:13 -0600
>
>I work for a company that recently removed two DEC PDP-11 computers. This
>has removable/installed disk drive cabinet , tape drive cabinet, CPU and an
>expansion cabinet.. four cabinets for each system. We have manuals,
>removable disks, and tapes. I can't seem to find any interest in this
>locally. Are you interested? If not could you tell me what the interest on
>ebay might be for these items?
>I'm not that familiar with this computer, but each cabinet is about 4 ft X2
>ftX1.5 ft.
>Have about 20 of the removable disks.
>Boxes for manuals and tapes.
>Any information on this would be a help. I hate to just throw it out.
>
>Thanks,
>David Nyman
>
>
>Thanks,
>David Nyman
>
>
>
>
>
---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
I have just taken out of service two 11/70s, one operational and one not. Both are complete. I also
have two RMO 5 drive packs with 300 meg drives.
Any offers?
Everything must go in a few days, otherwise will be thrown away. Some things
are too small for me to take the trouble to ship individually, but will ship
two or more; they are marked "NS". I will ship to the people who ask for the
most items at a time. Prices are 1.2*shipping. Some classic stuff, some more
modern. Something for everyone, please look through entire list. Please note
also that some disks may have rotted, and I can't be responsible, but to the
best of my knowledge, they work.
Apple/Mac
Visicalc 16-Sector for Apple II /II+ 48K, leather binder w/manual
Macintosh SE Owners' guide (NS)
Opened e-World package (NS)
Apple // DOS Programmer's Manual (NS)
Apple // ProDOS Programmer's Manual (NS)
Apple ][ Basic Programming manual (NS)
Bank St. Writer Plus for 128K, IIe, IIc, IIGS
TML Pascal II (complete devel. system for Macintosh)
About 50 untested apple ][ disks, some of everything
PeeCee:
Microsoft MS-DOS Shell users' guide v 1.0 (NS)
Xerox Ventura Publisher 2.0 and 3.0 (in same box, dunno why)
Xerox Ventura Publisher 1.0 (orig. manual, copied disks)
15 360K disks of old utils, will only run on older machines (Boston Computer
Society library copies)
Guide to Operations-PCjr with intro disks
copies of GEM Desktop (4 disks) and GEM write (2)(NS)
OS/2 2.0
Guide to Operations PC XT (several IBM PCuser's guides mixed together)
ZSoft PC Paintbrush +
Harvard Graphics 1.0, Not all disks work!
IBM DisplayWrite 5.0
MS Flight Simulator (No version #, I assume 2.0, I haven't gotten this to
run)
Miscellaneous:
IBM 5250 Information Display System MAP's, Parts catalog, Maintenance
information manual (a data terminal used w/System 34)
Secret Guide to Computers, 10th ed. V2 (Hassles With Basic)(NS)
Commodore:
C-64 Geos/QuantumLink users' guide 1.2 (cover damaged) (NS)
Commodore Spring 1987 catalog (NS)
Space Rogue for C64 (copy + photocopied manual) (NS)
Fire King for C64 (copy + photocopied manual) (NS)
Word Writer 6 for C64 (entire package, decent word processor)
F-14 tomcat for C64 (copy + photocopied manual) (NS)
The Rubicon Alliance for C64 (NS)
Solo Flight for C64 (NS)
WordStar made easy, 2nd edition (a tutorial, 150 pg.)
C-64C Introductory and System guides
Commodore 300 bps modem (model 1660)
Misc. C-64 games and utils (about 25 disks, some useless, most work,
generally classic games)
<Just my observation, of course. Few processors would actually run that fas
<for long, but those 8 MHz parts would do it for a little while if you kept
<them cold.
I've been running them at 8 and 10 mhz for years. The cmos parts do run
cooler though even at 10mhz. To get real perfomance out of them (under CPM)
you need to have a caching bios or the disk system will definately be the
bottleneck. Also DMA is a must though the zilog DMA part never hit more
than 6mhz the 8237-5 worked just as well and didn't have to run lockstep
with the cpu.
my 10mhz machine is on s100 and the CPU is not running the bios for disk
IO thats a 4mhz z80 with DMA the the main system ram. the 4mhz cpu runs
the hard disk and caches it (it actually pushes a teltek HDCTC as it's slow
MFM) so the caching operation is invisible to the main cpu. CPM screams on
that crate. There is an 8085 configured to do the same for the floppies and
that caches at the track/cylinder level so the initial read is a bit slow
but after that it's much better as the 32k LRU cache really helps.
To date the fastest z80 system I've run (no waits) is 10mhz... I have a
z180 that clocks faster but the dram is wait state so the effective speed
is slightly less than 10mhz.
Allison
On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Wayne Smith wrote:
> >>>> Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> 09/22 8:51 PM >>>
> >
> >I ran across a Texas Instruments Silent 700 Model 745 in a thrift
> >store today. This is the middle sized one - about the size of a small
> >portable typewriter - and appears complete (except for power cord) and
> >clean. It even has part of a roll of the thermal paper in it.
> >
> >If anyone wants it for $20 plus shipping, contact me off list and I'll
> >check if it is still there. (Good bet, I'd guess.)
> >
> > - don
> >
> I have one of these units, I think. Mine is called the "745 Portable,"
> TI Part No. 0983801-0003 and is about the size of an old Remington
> portable typewriter. Looks like an early 1970s model with a standard
> phone coupler and a 15-pin connector with an 8/7 pinout. Mine is in
> taupe colored plastic with a cover and four plastic connectors similar
> to the ones used with Osborne and Kaypro keyboards. The quality of
> construction is quite high and the keyboard has a nice feel. There is
> a picture of one shown at VCF 1.0 at:
>
> http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/vcf-09.jpg
>
> Is it the same unit, Don?
Sounds like a twin, Wayne!
- don
>>>> Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> 09/22 8:51 PM >>>
>
>I ran across a Texas Instruments Silent 700 Model 745 in a thrift
>store today. This is the middle sized one - about the size of a small
>portable typewriter - and appears complete (except for power cord) and
>clean. It even has part of a roll of the thermal paper in it.
>
>If anyone wants it for $20 plus shipping, contact me off list and I'll
>check if it is still there. (Good bet, I'd guess.)
>
> - don
>
I have one of these units, I think. Mine is called the "745 Portable,"
TI Part No. 0983801-0003 and is about the size of an old Remington
portable typewriter. Looks like an early 1970s model with a standard
phone coupler and a 15-pin connector with an 8/7 pinout. Mine is in
taupe colored plastic with a cover and four plastic connectors similar
to the ones used with Osborne and Kaypro keyboards. The quality of
construction is quite high and the keyboard has a nice feel. There is
a picture of one shown at VCF 1.0 at:
http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/vcf-09.jpg
Is it the same unit, Don?
Wayne
!
!
!
Mac is a Mac LC, the card has no identifying marks other than
it's from Apple and it's a "Apple IIe Card". It has a real funny connector
on it. Any ideas?
-------
I did get far enough along with some 55ns SRAMS in four 16K boards, to see
clearly that running the processor at 12 MHz with floppies isn't nearly as
good as running it at 4 MHz with a decent hard disk. The difference between
my 8 MB ramdisk and my then 40 MB (formatted) HDD, was barely noticable,
while both were considerably faster than the hot-rodded CPU with fast RAM.
Just my observation, of course. Few processors would actually run that fast
for long, but those 8 MHz parts would do it for a little while if you kept
them cold.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Zilog reintroduces enhanced Z80!
>> This is one I'd like to play with... can you imagine CPM with 16mb ram
>> at 30+mhz?
>
>Wasted resources ?
>WS still runs well on a 2 MHz with 32K :)
>
>Gruss
>H.
>
>--
>Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/
>Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/
>Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/
>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
>HRK
<I suspect that it's only news to the slashdot crowd. "Two (or three)
<decade-old architecture still doing real work" is news for 99% of the folk
<out there, though it isn't to us :-).
I agree. ;) However I did check zilog and the part is a new beast and does
offer potential for some hot performance. Little things like 24bit linear
address and an accumulate/multiply engine. With those goodies added yep,
beats 180s182. The z80 has plenty of room to grow and unlike the
8080-->8088 transistion they learned from the z8000... it's z80 code
compatable!
This is one I'd like to play with... can you imagine CPM with 16mb ram
at 30+mhz?
Allison
I have no idea what they are work --- but would love to buy one..... any
idea what you are looking for??? I'm a gread student and have collected a
working pdp-8 and vaxstation --- would love at add a pdp 11. Please let me
know how much you were looking to get
mark
>From: "Tom Hill" <TomHill(a)PCIpage.com>
>Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
>To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Subject: PDP 11/70s For Sale
>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:57:09 -0500
>
>I have just taken out of service two 11/70s, one operational and one not.
>Both are complete. I also
>have two RMO 5 drive packs with 300 meg drives.
>Any offers?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Or Presidents!!
NM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles E. Fox [SMTP:foxvideo@wincom.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 10:38 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Future equipment may not last as long...
>
........
> >
> Maybe we need some biodegradable researchers.
> >
> >
>
>
> Charles E. Fox
> Chas E. Fox Video Productions
> 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada
> email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo
>- actually e-Bay is starting tom become the bane of a bunch that used to
trade
>stuff back and forth, rather than put it up for sale]
I don't need the card punch but I certainly agree with those sentiments...
I also thought that there would be alot more trading/swapping going on in
this community... I do however appreciate the information flow and have
learned and been entertained often.
;)
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
hello,
does anyone know where i can grab myself a copy of ultrix? i have a
vaxstation3100 here, and netbsd is still unstable on it. is there
somewhere i can purchase it at? or perhaps someone has an old copy of
it? thanks for any replies in advance.
!p
--
"i hear digging, but i don't hear chopping!" -- homer
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subject: (fwd) Before it goes to e-Bay....
I'd like to have it, but... So don't contact me!
- don
-- forwarded message --
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From: David M. Razler <david.razler(a)worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Before it goes to e-Bay....
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:00:27 -0400
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Available:
1 desktop punchcard reader with a basic parallel output, originally
connected to a PDP-9
Electronics were good last time I checked, but it needs new tires and
belts (all appear to be stock items)
I'd rather *give* it to a good home - someone willing to pay packing and
shipping from Long Island. If no interest is shown in a few days, it'll go up
on e-Bay, where I might make a few bucks, but not know where it's going.
[note: I encourage everyone else with obsolete machinery to do the same
- actually e-Bay is starting tom become the bane of a bunch that used to trade
stuff back and forth, rather than put it up for sale]
The beast is at my parents' home. Recipient will pay the cost of having
it taken to a Mail Boxes Etc., properly packed and shipped via their preferred
method. [I am not going to ask my parents to do more than drive it to the MBE]
dmr
David M. Razler
david.razler(a)worldnet.att.net
-- end of forwarded message --
I ran across a Texas Instruments Silent 700 Model 745 in a thrift
store today. This is the middle sized one - about the size of a small
portable typewriter - and appears complete (except for power cord) and
clean. It even has part of a roll of the thermal paper in it.
If anyone wants it for $20 plus shipping, contact me off list and I'll
check if it is still there. (Good bet, I'd guess.)
- don
In a message dated 9/22/99 9:37:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dlw(a)trailingedge.com writes:
> Got an urge to go to a thrift I haven't been to in a while and found
> what was labeled as a 3270 PC. Brought it home and opened it
> up. Looking at the boards inside I'd guess it was a 3270 PC as the
> label said. No keyboard or monitor. I'm guessing it used different
> ones than the normal PC. It has a hard disk, but have to pull it to
> see what type first and 2 half height 5.25" floppies. Not sure what
> software is on the drive. Anyone tell me anything else about this?
> Such as where to locate a keyboard and monitor, what each of the
> boards might be, etc. I can go into some detail on the cards if
> need be. Half appear to be normal drive controllers and serial port,
> etc. Then there is one with a BNC connector and two others that
> have a small jumper board between them. Should I even keep it?
> Hmmmm....
Ive one as well. Just a regular old 10meg xt with additional goodies to
connect to mainframe. runs like a 327x mainframe console. a special monitor
and keyboard were used. there may be a dongle plugged into the keyboard port;
you can unplug that and use a standard xt keyboard. you'll get a 30x post
error, but you can continue. some of the cards were for connecting via twinax
(IIRC) and the special video modes that were required when you ran emulation.
My 3270 machine has a regular old MDA adaptor so that was no problem either.
-->this message printed on recycled disk space.
visit the computers of yesteryear at:
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
I have the following hex-height boards protuding from my stash of quads:
Emulex UD33 SMD/MSCP controller, will support 4 eagles.
(2) Able DH/DM 16-port RS232 interface with modem control.
All gear worked when removed from service five years ago.
Anyone who will use them, please contact me off-list.
Regards,
Elmo
< does anyone know where i can grab myself a copy of ultrix? i have a
<vaxstation3100 here, and netbsd is still unstable on it. is there
<somewhere i can purchase it at? or perhaps someone has an old copy of
<it? thanks for any replies in advance.
No idea, I think it's still shrouded in encumberment. VMS is available
free. See WWW.DECUS.ORG
Allison
<trackstar plus, designed for ps/2 model 25 and 30. it's complete with all
<cables and manuals. looks like it wasnt even used! the compatibility list i
<quite extensive too. only cost me $3 too. some of the features are:
<128k, runs //e and //c apps.
<complete graphics support.
Works in most any XT class machine (ISA-8) and it's pretty fast too. I
have one and I keep it in a Leading edge model D with a hard card. One day
I'll put together the apple software for it as mine was without.
Allison
<Many of these folks also used rebadged EICO kits. Very similar
<in design to the low-end Heathkit scopes.
Yes they did, forgot them. Eico had some nice equipment. I still use a few
peices that I've have for 30+ years each!
There were other kit hardware suppliers too, Packard Bell and Graybar come
to mind.
Allison
got off work early and hit the thrift stores. got to the one by my house and
checked it out. found the first model ps/1 but missing the required monitor.
looked at a nondescript box and noticed it said trackstar on it! it's a
trackstar plus, designed for ps/2 model 25 and 30. it's complete with all
cables and manuals. looks like it wasnt even used! the compatibility list is
quite extensive too. only cost me $3 too. some of the features are:
128k, runs //e and //c apps.
complete graphics support.
network support. (store programs on network server)
ability to store apple disks anywhere.
create prodos volumes up to 10meg anywhere.
ascii xfers dos<>apple
1mhz /2mhz operation
joystick connector
ability to use either unidisk or disk ][
supports dos printer
toggle between apple and dos anytime
-->this message printed on recycled disk space.
visit the computers of yesteryear at:
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
>> It's a relabelled Heathkit, I have a smilar one myself.
>
>No surprize as DeVry, ICS, Bell&howell to name a few used heath for kit
>sourced equipment.
Many of these folks also used rebadged EICO kits. Very similar
in design to the low-end Heathkit scopes.
Tim.
I've made a sugestion to him re testing, but his time frame seems too short
for me to find the manuals & debug via email!
Neil Morrison
email:morrison@t-iii.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 11:06 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: OT: Semi-functional scope?
>
> > It's a relabelled Heathkit, I have a smilar one myself.
> >
> > Neil Morrison
>
> No surprize as DeVry, ICS, Bell&howell to name a few used heath for kit
> sourced equipment.
>
> Since you have one you likely the best source of info.
>
> Allison
>
It's a relabelled Heathkit, I have a smilar one myself.
Neil Morrison
email:morrison@t-iii.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allison J Parent [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:46 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: OT: Semi-functional scope?
>
>
>
> Likely the problem he has is twofold, lack of experice using O'scopes
> and possibly a major balance problem due to internal misadjustment or
> component failure. We also have no idea if this is a low end recurrent
> sweep 5mhz cheapie or a triggered sweep cheapie. this would influence
> what suggestions could be made.
>
>
> Allison
<There is a metal can on the back of the chassis that has a bit of rust on
<the outside, but peeking inside it looks like it is on the the transformer
Rust is not a factor unless loose bits of it are in the circuts.
<fortunately. As for the kind of cheapie it is, I have no idea... it's a
<rebadged Heathkit sold as a "Bell & Howell Schooles Oscilloscope model
<10D-4540".
I'll bet it's a cheapie recurrent sweep design. if so the H sweep should
have a switch that is marked internal/external... you want internal. There
should be a sweep rate switch as well.
lack of vertical deflection is either input set wrong, wrong gain setting
or possible a input selector switch set for grounded(to zero the input).
Heath would be a source for a manual in good likelyhood.
Allison
<By model 30, does that mean the all in one units kind of like a fatheaded
<early mac? I've got one of those with a color monitor and 286, nice little
<box, although I haven't looked inside for expansion etc.
No, the PS2/m25 and m30 were ISA the PS2/m40 and m50 286 version was MCA,
different bus. it was the m25 and m30 that were the inexpensive XT class
machines eith 3 ISA slots and a thin case (~4"). As XTs go they were
turbo (8mhz) and well made. The rest of the PS2 line was MCA bus (better)
and incompatable at the card/bus level with the then PC world.
Allison
Hi,
I had my S/3 up and running till end 1991. Then I moved house and since
then is it stored in my garage.
If you like the write small programs in macro/assembler and like to single
instruction step through it, the S/3 is the best.
In the extreme you can even single cycle the machine.
I have all IBM program listings of the OS, RPG, FORTRAN, COBOL etc etc
on microfiche. I also have the IBM program logic manuals.
I like to hack little bit in the OS.
B.t.w. are interested in a real S/3 mod 15 ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard W. Schauer [mailto:rws@enteract.com]
Sent: 22 September 1999 04:42
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: IBM System/3 owners
On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Stegeman, Henk HJ SSI-TSEA-331 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am new to this list, but not in collecting old computers.
> I have since 1982 a very complete old IBM System/3 model 10.
>
> Are there any other IBM System/3 owners on this list ?
I would have been- I was told about various Sys/3x systems at a company,
and they told me I could have had a System/3 model 15D if I wasn't a few
years too late. But nice people that they were, they gave me a System/34,
a System/36 (the big 5360 kind), two 3262 printers, two 8809 tape drives,
a TDX-1050 tape controller/RS232 interface, and a Wang OIS-60 word
processing system. I've fired up the printers and the tape drives and
checked them out and I'm preparing to fire up the computers, S/36 first.
Have you run your S/3? If so what do you do with it? I've always liked
them; I have a picture of a S/3 and a S/34 hanging up at work.
Richard Schauer
Hi,
I am new to this list, but not in collecting old computers.
I have since 1982 a very complete old IBM System/3 model 10.
Are there any other IBM System/3 owners on this list ?
Thanks for replying.
Regards,
Henk Stegeman,
<> prevents rapid deflection changes. However, electrostatic deflection is
<> more limited in the achievable deflection angle, so a longer tube is
<> required.
<
<
<Also, a narrow deflection angle will improve linearity, which is
<obviously very important in a measuring instrument...
Length of the tube was a function of deflection sensitivity, minimal effect
on linearity directly. The linearity improvemnt was the flatter crt face
as a result of the larger radius.
<For anything higher you need electrostatic deflection, though. High speed
<electromagnetic deflection would involve very high voltages in the
<deflection amplifier output stages to overcome the back EMF from the
<deflection coils.
No, the inductance. You need a certain amount of current to move the beam
and at higher frequencies the inductance of the yoke is the limiting factor
in attaining that current. Faster electromagnetic scopes used very high
amperes to turns ratios to keep the inductance to tolerable levels.
For electrostatic tubes the capacitance of the plates combined with the
leads (internal and external) were less limiting though above 20mhz or so
they become very significant.
However this helps lordtyran not one bit.
Likely the problem he has is twofold, lack of experice using O'scopes
and possibly a major balance problem due to internal misadjustment or
component failure. We also have no idea if this is a low end recurrent
sweep 5mhz cheapie or a triggered sweep cheapie. this would influence
what suggestions could be made.
Allison
Anyone got a Model 32 Teletype machine they need books on?
Here's your chance. Reply to the fellow directly if interested.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:49:15 GMT, in rec.radio.amateur.equipment you
wrote:
>>From: n7lxo(a)olympus.net (Charles O'Hara)
>>Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
>>Subject: Teletypewriter Manuals need a home
>>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:49:15 GMT
>>Message-ID: <37e7d10d.9631922(a)news.olympus.net>
>>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: pt194198.olympus.net
>>Lines: 18
>>Path: news1.jps.net!news-west.eli.net!news.sisna.com!pants.skycache.com!news.maxw…
>>Xref: news1.jps.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:2111
>>
>>Have the following Teletype Corporation original technical manuals
>>available for some lucky soul:
>>
>>1. Bulletin 309B (Volume 1) which covers installation,
>>disassembly and reassembly, lubrication, and principles of operation
>>of the component units of the Teletypewriter Sets designated:
>> 32 Teletypewriter Sets
>> Receive Only (RO)
>> Keyboard Send-Receive (KSR)
>> Automatic Send-Receive (ASR)
>>
>>2. Bulletin 1210B which is the parts breakdown and exploded
>>diagrams for the Teletype Corporation 32 Page Printer Set (ASR, KSR
>>and RO).
>>
>>They are yours including Priority Mailing for only $12.00 total.
>>I'd rather see them put to use than trashed.
>>73, Chuck
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com
Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com
"...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object,
event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
They're gone. Thanks for the fast responses.
Wayne
>>> Wayne Smith <wsmith(a)gj.com> 09/21 4:10 PM >>>
I was cleaning my office this weekend and came across 9 copies of the 9/95 issue of BYTE (don't ask why), the 20th anniversary issue. If anyone wants 8 of them (I am keeping one) I will front the postage to see that they get a good home. I will not split these up. There's a lot of interesting historical information in this issue for those who haven't seen it before. 20 most important chips, 20 most significant systems, 20 biggest flops (e.g. Lisa, PC jr.), etc.
Wayne
About 2 years ago a friend of mine gave me a "Bell & Howell Schools"
scope. I put it in my basement for a few years until I've had time to look
at it. A friend guided me through the alignment over the phone so I get my
dot centered on the screen. But I can't get it to start (is sweeping the
word?) I just get the dot. Turning the controls to any place other than
where he told me results in the dot falling off the screen (to the left
usually). I've tried to get results by connecting low-level audio sources
including music and white noise, but still nothing on the display other
than the dot. Any ideas? I need to have it working by 3rd period Friday
because my friend is bringing an Arp 2600 analogue synthesizer to my
chemistry class to demonstrate different wave forms and it will be a lot
more effective if we can demonstrate the different waves if theyc an be
seen.
Oh, I forgot to mention that when I opened it up, there was a REALLY long
CRT (I'd say more than 1.5 feet) that ran the entire length of the
cabinet. Other than a bit of a rusty shield under one of the went holes,
it was REALLY clean on the inside... but had several spider webs and dead
insects. How something can be home to little creatures but not get dusty
is quite beyond me... the only openings are the vent holes in the top,
which are long skinny things that shuold have let it all the dust...
Thanks,
Kevin
Jarek, you will note that I have forwarded your e-mail to the listserv
for the Classic Computer mailing list. This is a group of people who
are very interested in a wide variety of older - over 10 years old -
computers af many kinds.
A number are interested in CP/M machines, and there was a recent
dialogue about a Spectravideo machine (whose model number I forget).
I think that there will be interest in your work.
- don
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:13:36 +0100
From: Jarek Adamski <yarek(a)sp7.zsk.p.lodz.pl>
To: donm(a)crash.cts.com
Subject: New CP/M implementations
Hi!
I found this address in CP/M-FAQ and I write because I have
implemented CP/M 2.2 for some Z80 computers.
1. SAM Coupe, produced since 1989 in England by Miles-Gordon
Technnology. Files are available on:
"http://nautilus.torch.net.pl/zxland/"
- "CPM22QED.lha" the install disk,
- "ZXVGSusr.lha" description how to install,
- "CPM22007RAR.lha" - recent version of some system files.
2. TIMEX FDD 3000, produced about 1985 in Portugal by TIMEX.
This computer works with TIMEX COMPUTER 2048 and TIMEX
INTERFACE. The install disk isn't available via Internet.
3. SPECTRAVIDEO 738 X'PRESS, produced in Austria by Prosystem
(I'm not sure). This is kind of MSX. New versions not available
due to lack of interest. (But I can compile new on request.)
All above are compatibile. Have the same terminal (VT-52), the
same format program (QFORMAT) and XDPB utility (QMOUNT). Use
disks of 210, 410, 420, 820 and 1640kB - my own definitions. On
the disks there are additional sectors that allow boot "1." and
"2." from one disk.
--
Yarek.
Tube or transistor?
NM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LordTyran [SMTP:a2k@one.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 3:59 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: OT: Semi-functional scope?
>
> About 2 years ago a friend of mine gave me a "Bell & Howell Schools"
> scope. I put it in my basement for a few years until I've had time to look
> at it. A friend guided me through the alignment over the phone so I get my
> dot centered on the screen. But I can't get it to start (is sweeping the
> word?) I just get the dot. Turning the controls to any place other than
> where he told me results in the dot falling off the screen (to the left
> usually). I've tried to get results by connecting low-level audio sources
> including music and white noise, but still nothing on the display other
> than the dot. Any ideas? I need to have it working by 3rd period Friday
> because my friend is bringing an Arp 2600 analogue synthesizer to my
> chemistry class to demonstrate different wave forms and it will be a lot
> more effective if we can demonstrate the different waves if theyc an be
> seen.
>
> Oh, I forgot to mention that when I opened it up, there was a REALLY long
> CRT (I'd say more than 1.5 feet) that ran the entire length of the
> cabinet. Other than a bit of a rusty shield under one of the went holes,
> it was REALLY clean on the inside... but had several spider webs and dead
> insects. How something can be home to little creatures but not get dusty
> is quite beyond me... the only openings are the vent holes in the top,
> which are long skinny things that shuold have let it all the dust...
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
I was cleaning my office this weekend and came across 9 copies of the 9/95 issue of BYTE (don't ask why), the 20th anniversary issue. If anyone wants 8 of them (I am keeping one) I will front the postage to see that they get a good home. I will not split these up. There's a lot of interesting historical information in this issue for those who haven't seen it before. 20 most important chips, 20 most significant systems, 20 biggest flops (e.g. Lisa, PC jr.), etc.
Wayne
Yeah . . . that was my fault . . . I copied a message via the reply button
and forgot to change the subject . . . I'm sorry I did that!
Don & Jeff both did read your thread up to that point, so it's likely
they'll continue to read it, along with others, thank goodness.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Smith <wsmith(a)gj.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Can anyone I.D. this part, possibly from IBM 5100
>
>
>>>>> Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> 09/21 11:33 AM >>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> BTW, thanks so much for scanning and sending me the WD-1002
>>> docs. I'm looking foreward to seeing the other documents
>>> you have planned to scan as they become available.
>>>
>>> Thanks Dick!
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>>I concur completely!
>>
>> - don
>>
>
>It seems that this thread has lost its thread. Still looking for an I.D.
on the following:
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/plate.jpg
>
>Wayne
>
>
!
>!
>!
>!
>
>
BTW, thanks so much for scanning and sending me the WD-1002
docs. I'm looking foreward to seeing the other documents
you have planned to scan as they become available.
Thanks Dick!
Jeff
On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:43:26 -0600 "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com>
writes:
> In case anyone's interested, I've found my missing manual for the
> OMTI 10A
> SASI-bus-to-SA1000/Q2000 8" hard disk bridge controller and am
> scanning it.
> I also have the manual for the XEBEC 1410, as well as the
> WD1000&1002-05, as
> well as the 1000-55 and 1001 from Western Digital. All these will
> be
> reduced to machine readable form eventually.
>
> If there's any urgency to your own need(s), let me know and I'll
> adjust the
> priority accordingly.
>
> Dick
>
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Have you tried local university libraries? They seem to keep all sorts of
stuff.
Neil Morrison
email:morrison@t-iii.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stegeman, Henk HJ SSI-TSEA-331 [SMTP:Henk.J.Stegeman@is.shell.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:53 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Wanted IBM S/360 doc.
>
> Hi,
>
> For years I am looking for some IBM 360/50 hardware manuals.
>
> I am VERY interested in copies of :
>
> - CE course material of this system
> - The so-called MDM manual of the IBM 360/50
> - Theory of Operation of the IBM 360/50
>
> Anyone on this list who can help me ending my search for these IBM manuals
> ?
>
>
> Henk Stegeman,