>Anyone have pointers to good Z-80 Assembly language programming
>resources on the net?
Any of the CP/M archives will be filled with more Z-80 and 8080
assembly source than you'll know what to do with. For starters,
try
http://oak.oakland.edu/pub/cpm/
>What books would you recommend for advanced programming topics?
If I remember correctly, Rodney Zaks had a book titled "Programming
the Z-80" in his lineup.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
--- daniel <daniel(a)internet.look.ca> wrote:
> I got two quad (looks to be originals for the 11) PDP extender cards for
> $21.50! I had to get up at 1 in the morning to nail it. If the spacing is
> the same on either side of the middle "slot" then I guess I just have to cut
> them down the middle for the PDP 8? Sorry "flipchip".
You don't need to cut them... just pull four cards and extend all of them
together. At these speeds, the extra length isn't going to kill you.
Quad is quad. They can also be used for OMNIBUS cards as well as Qbus/UNIBUS
cards.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
While trying to figure out how to reach more PDP-11 users with my
freeware archives
(immodest plug: See
http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html
for information about the PDP-11 freeware CD's and FTP sites with
PDP-11 freeware)
it occured to me that I've only been using two methods of announcing
availability: this (Classiccmp) mailing list and Usenet newsgroups
specific to PDP-11's.
It's obvious that these methods of reaching classic computer
users hit only a small fraction of active PDP-11 users.
There's what, maybe a couple of dozen frequent participants in this
mailing list, and the number of regular posters on vmsnet.pdp-11 can
be counted on two hands.
Is there a better way of reaching a wider audience of classic computer
users? In particular, folks who don't read technical Usenet discussion
groups and who haven't happened upon this specific mailing list.
Or, even in this "connected" world that we live in, is there no better
way of reaching what I know is a very broad base of classic computer
users out there?
One idea that has crossed my mind, but I don't know if there's any way
to pull it off: There are obviously lots of "collectors" on E-bay who have
little connection with our reality of using classic computers. Is there
no way at all of reaching these folks? I don't mean preaching to them,
but at least tying them together into a broader knowledge base than the
wheeling and dealing on E-bay.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Hi,
I still believe in miracles...
I am looking for a IBM MST-1 card with P/N 5558222. This card was used
by IBM Customer Engineer in an IBM System/3 model 15 (IBM 5415).
This card was only available at IBM CE Branch Offices and was needed
to diagnose any problems in the so-called 'DA 3277/3284 Attachment'
and 'LDA (Local Display Attachment)' in the S/3 model 15.
Together with the card came a CE Switchbox P/N 5558132 and overlay
P/N 5558224.
Anyone who might be able to perform a small miracle... ?
Thanks.
Henk Stegeman
IBM Collector.
Anyone have pointers to good Z-80 Assembly language programming resources on the net?
What books would you recommend for advanced programming topics?
TIA,
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
I'm not surprised. The Sinclairs were very plentiful back in the days when
they were of interest.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenatacme(a)aol.com <Glenatacme(a)aol.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: TImex SInclair 1000 Manual
>In a message dated 10/17/1999 12:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>edick(a)idcomm.com writes:
>
>> While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair
>1000
>> manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is
this
>> something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for
it?
>
>Actually this is a very common and abundant item. A "perfect" one will
>typically fetch less than US$10 on Ebay.
>
>Glen Goodwin
>0/0
>I've seen this, too. On one particular item that I wanted,
>in viewing the "View Sellers Other Auctions", I noticed that
>he had a number of them to sell. Spread out over a few days.
>I would bid on one and someone would outbid me. I'd bid on
>another and someone would outbid me. I finally just said forget
>it, this is getting ridiculous. :-)
Certainly, E-bay does provides tools for many "commodity" type items
to compare one sale with past ones, so you know what a reasonable bid
is. There are evidently folks who don't know how to use this, and
it doesn't really bother me, I just feel kind-of-sorry for them.
Other E-bay phenomena:
1. Items (like HP C3010 2 Gbyte SCSI drives) that have been
flooding the surplus market. These are available from liquidators
like www.hitechcafe.com and www.compgeeks.com for $30-$35-$40, but
I've seen them bid up into the $50-$60 range on E-bay very regularly.
Same thing often happens for surplus PC-clone mainboards.
2. What really amazes me is when a seller makes a reserve price auction,
very plainly states the reserve price in the item description, and
there are literally dozens of bids made *below* the stated reserve
price. What the ???. Either the bidders think this is entirely a
"bidding game", where the objective is to outbid the other guy with
no real intention to buy, or they don't read the description at all, or they
haven't a clue period.
Tim.
>>>Either bid at the end, and I mean well within the last minute if not the
>>>last 10 seconds or so, or bid the full amount you are willing to pay for
>>>the item.
>>
>> If you're bidding on something that you really want, be prepared to be awake
>>and in front of your machine when the auction ends. Everyone learns this
>>after
>>a while.
>Or just bid your full amount to start with. Lots of people use eBay like a
>email store and just place an order, with a bid that delivers 90% of the
>time.
I've done that - usually for some oddball item that nobody else would
likely want, anyway.
I've been following the E-bay auctions for SCSI drives closely in the
past month or two, and what's *really* amazing is that sometimes there'll
be 4 identical items, all from the same seller, all closing within minutes
of each other, and in one auction the drive is bid up to $180.00 and in an
another auctions the cost settles around $60-$70.
Someone here said that E-bay is perhaps one of the harshest marketplaces
around, implying (I think) that it's pure open competition with commonly
available knowledge, but this isn't always the case: some of the bidders
haven't a clue as to what's going on, and instead of treating the auction
as what it is - a business transaction - they get caught up in the
frenzy of bidding. (It takes at least *two* such bidders to bid the
price up to ridiculous heights.)
I personally don't understand "sniping" at all - it isn't necessary.
Set your maximum bid what you're willing to pay. If someone else outbids
you, you didn't "lose" - "losing" is when you pay more than you're willing,
not when someone outbids you!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
In a message dated 10/17/1999 12:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
edick(a)idcomm.com writes:
> While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair
1000
> manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this
> something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it?
Actually this is a very common and abundant item. A "perfect" one will
typically fetch less than US$10 on Ebay.
Glen Goodwin
0/0
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info
>>
>> Yes, it is. It was called the 11/05 in 72 but later docs called it the
>> 11/10.
>
>Hmm... I've seen 5.25" boxes with both 11/05 and 11/10 nameplates on the
>front (no, not on the same machine :-)). I think the only 10.5" one I saw
>was an 11/10, but I'd happilly believe in the existance of a 10.5" 11/05
Actually I have one... It says 11/05 on a 10 1/2" box (one of the first
knocked out). I will be putting pictures of it up on my website with the
8/s, honeywell, 34,45,73,accuray,etc...
>
>I tend to regard the 11/05 and 11/10 as the same machine. Same boards,
>same boxes, etc. Ditto for the 11/35 and 11/40. Even DEC got fed up with
>the dual numbering scheme later on (the 11/39 was going to be the
>end-user version of the 11/34, and some early manuals mention it. AFAIK
>it never existed. Ditto for the 11/09).
>
>
>>
>> Anyway, do you have an 11/05 running and do you have any PDP 8s you
collect?
>
>I've got a working 5.25" 11/05 here. And another one that's much hacked.
>
>Got a couple of Omnibus 8's....
>
>> I am trying to find blank backplanes for the old flipchip modules (r
series)
>
>What's special about them? Don't R series fit any DEC connector blocks?
>You said you want them blank, so can't you unwrap some other backplane?
>
No, I was hoping for one with the usual power strips already attached. I
have enough r-series spares to design the intel 4004 with flip chips.
>-tony
>
Yes, it is. It was called the 11/05 in 72 but later docs called it the
11/10.
Anyway, do you have an 11/05 running and do you have any PDP 8s you collect?
I am trying to find blank backplanes for the old flipchip modules (r series)
john
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info
>> You don't have all the prints then. I have prints outlineing your two +:
>>
>>
>> Module Utilization:
>>
>> Slot 9: M930 /Stack
>> Slot 8: G231
>> Slot 7: G110
>> Slot 6: G231
>> Slot 5: G110
>> Slot 4: M930 / Stack
>> Slot 3: M7261
>> Slot 2: M7260
>> Slot 1: Bf11 / M9970 / Km11A / KM11B
>>
>> (16k)
>
>Are you sure that's not the backplane for the 10.5" box (BA11-K)? That
>one does have the CPU on the right (and Unibus out on slot 9 on the
>left).
>
>-tony
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info
>> >There are at least 3 different backplanes, but the 11/05 and 11/10 can
>> >use any of them. The 11/05 and 11/10 are really the same machine -- the
>> >differences seem to be what was included when the machine was originally
>> >shipped.
>> >
>> >The first backplane goes in the 5.25" box. The CPU cards go at the
bottom
>> >(in slots 8 and 9).
>>
>> No, CPU goes in slots 2&3, the maintenance board goes in slot 1.
>
>I was absolutely certain the CPU went in slots 8 and 9 in the 5.25" box,
>so I've got the printset out. I was right about the CPU, but wrong about
>Unibus out (which comes from slot 2 or 3 depending on the version,
>because as you said, the KM11 goes in slot 1 _or 2_) . Here's the 'module
>utilization' :
>
>8K version
>Slot 1 A-B : not used, C-F : SPC
>Slot 2 A : KM11, B : KM11, C-F : SPC
>Slot 3 A-B : Unibus Out (or M930 terminator), C-F : SPC
>Slot 4 A-B : not used, C-F : SPC
>Slot 5 A-B : M930 (terminator) C-F : H213 or H214 core stack
>Slot 6 : G231 Memory Driver
>Slot 7 : G110 Control/Data loops
>Slot 8 : M7261 Control logic and microprogram (CPU control)
>SLot 9 : M7260 Data Paths (CPU Data)
>
>16K version
>Slot 1 A : KM11, B : KM11, C-F : SPC
>Slot 2 A-B : Unibus Out (or M930 termiator), C-F : H213 or H214 core stack
>Slot 3 : G231 Memory Driver
>Slot 4 : G110 Control/Data loops
>Slot 5 A-B : M930 (terminator) C-F : H213 or H214 core stack
>Slot 6 : G231 Memory Driver
>Slot 7 : G110 Control/Data loops
>Slot 8 : M7261 Control logic and microprogram (CPU control)
>SLot 9 : M7260 Data Paths (CPU Data)
>
>
You don't have all the prints then. I have prints outlineing your two +:
Module Utilization:
Slot 9: M930 /Stack
Slot 8: G231
Slot 7: G110
Slot 6: G231
Slot 5: G110
Slot 4: M930 / Stack
Slot 3: M7261
Slot 2: M7260
Slot 1: Bf11 / M9970 / Km11A / KM11B
(16k)
I have 3 different print sets as the company I got all this equipment from
was an inital beta test site for the 11/05.
>
>-tony
>
All right, I guess it's not under the 10-year rule, but I'm desparate,
and this audience is the most likely to understand...
I have an old Toshiba T3200SXC portable. It's the only DOS based
machine I have left, and the only one, therefore, that will run
my prom-burner software (Don't ask...) and some essential DOS
based utilities. I had it hooked to my network and did things
such as burn "BIOS" EPROMs for my VS3100's. The networking depended
on some of the capabilities of DESQVIEW/X.
Recently I *really* (&(*$^*%$ up, and managed to blow up my setup
on that machine. Rebuilt everything, went to load DV/X and
.... got an unrecoverable read error on my only copy of Disk #2.
Aborts the install completely. In the midst of my preparations
for hara-kiri, it came to me: Maybe someone out there had a
copy of DV/X who would be willing to send me what's on Disk #2, or
at the least, the bad file. The file is one of the compressed
files, MERGECFG.EX_. The version of DV/X I'm using is 2.00.
Quarterdeck/Symantec is no use; they don't even mention DV on their
web page.
As I said, I'm desparate, and again apologize for the (possibly) OT
stuff. If you have v2 of DV/X around somewhere, or know where I can
get that file, let me know. If you've got a full copy of DV/X you're
willing to sell, and the disks are still readable (:-)), let me
know that, too.
Thanks!
Dann Lunsford
I have recently come into posession of what certainly appears to be a Xerox
mouse and I am wondering if you can help be identify it, that is, what
machine it was used on. It has no markings on the case, cable or connector.
It has the same appearance as one used on the Alto with three grey buttons,
beige case, exactly like the the one pictured here.
http://www.newmedianews.com/pictures/1998/10/09/th_alto/3.jpg
However, it is an optical mouse, unlike the "rolling ball bearing" mouse
described in the Byte magazine article in Sept 1981 here.
http://www.byte.com/art/9609/sec4/art3.htm
It has a black cable, not too long, about 28", terminated in a grey db-9,
not molded, but hand assembled.
Here are two pictures of it, taken with my scanner.
http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/MyXeroxMouse.jpg (123K)
http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/MyXeroxMouseBottom.jpg (60K)
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I'd love to verify if it
works! Are pin-outs available for it?
John
jlewczyk(a)his.com
-----Original Message-----
From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)netcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 8:57 PM
Subject: My Biggest eBay gripe..
>
>
> My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is
>time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a
>fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**.
>
> 'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an
>agreed-upon span.
>
> I have bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of
>aerospace and industrial surplus at auctions large and small,
>sealed-bid and open-floor, honestly run and 'otherwise'. The reason
>I dislike the eBay model is that the item most often goes to the
>fastest/luckiest bidder (sniper)... and that's totally wacked, IMHO.
>
> I am not going to join the "capitalism vs. overvaluation" debate.
>I'm a captialist *and* a collector... that's internal conflict
>enough.
>
> I wonder how much tweaking would be involved on the part of eBay's
>logicians to convert it over to the more familiar "going, going,
>gone!" type of format.
>
> What do You All think??
>
I emailed EBay asking them to extend an auction by 10 minutes every time a
bid comes in close to the closing (within the last 10 minutes) . No response
yet... I love the snipering though.. have gotten many great deals because
people won't bid what they are willing to pay if they think no one else will
bid.
> Cheers
>
>John
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: EBaying; howling after an auction
>>I've seen this, too. On one particular item that I wanted,
>>in viewing the "View Sellers Other Auctions", I noticed that
>>he had a number of them to sell. Spread out over a few days.
>>I would bid on one and someone would outbid me. I'd bid on
>>another and someone would outbid me. I finally just said forget
>>it, this is getting ridiculous. :-)
>
>Certainly, E-bay does provides tools for many "commodity" type items
>to compare one sale with past ones, so you know what a reasonable bid
>is. There are evidently folks who don't know how to use this, and
>it doesn't really bother me, I just feel kind-of-sorry for them.
>
>Other E-bay phenomena:
>
>1. Items (like HP C3010 2 Gbyte SCSI drives) that have been
>flooding the surplus market. These are available from liquidators
>like www.hitechcafe.com and www.compgeeks.com for $30-$35-$40, but
>I've seen them bid up into the $50-$60 range on E-bay very regularly.
>Same thing often happens for surplus PC-clone mainboards.
>
>2. What really amazes me is when a seller makes a reserve price auction,
>very plainly states the reserve price in the item description, and
>there are literally dozens of bids made *below* the stated reserve
>price. What the ???. Either the bidders think this is entirely a
>"bidding game", where the objective is to outbid the other guy with
>no real intention to buy, or they don't read the description at all, or
they
>haven't a clue period.
>
Easy, to track the auction and get an email with the info about the auction
(for future reference). Auction programs help you when you have a bid in.
>Tim.
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info
>> >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked
>> >> "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for
an
>> >> 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34
chassis
>> >> for testing?
>> >
>> >You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and
>> >frontpanel for these. There was a 5.25" box versions and a 10.5" box
>> >version with _different_ backplanes. They won't work in an 11/04 or
11/34
>> >backplane, though
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have
>> both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214
>
>There are at least 3 different backplanes, but the 11/05 and 11/10 can
>use any of them. The 11/05 and 11/10 are really the same machine -- the
>differences seem to be what was included when the machine was originally
>shipped.
>
>The first backplane goes in the 5.25" box. The CPU cards go at the bottom
>(in slots 8 and 9).
No, CPU goes in slots 2&3, the maintenance board goes in slot 1.
The next 3 slots are for one set of core memory
>boards. And then 4 SPC slots, with Unibus out on slot 1 (top of box --
>yes, I do have this the right way round!).
>
>The second backplane is similar, and also goes in the 5.25" box. Again
>the CPU goes in the bottom. The next 6 slots are for 2 sets of core
>memory, with a single SPC (and unibus out) at the top (slot 1)
>
>The third backplane goes in the BA11-K 10.5" box. The CPU goes on the far
>right (slots 1 and 2). Unibus out is on slot 9 (as you'd expect). One of
>the A+B slots is for a paddleboard that connects to the the console
>cable. I can't remember how many core memory sets you can put into it.
>
>> 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked)
>> 72/73 - if there is no baud selection switch
>
>Hmmm... They're strictly different systems -- the rotary switch implies
>it's an 11/05S board set. This has 2 extra features, firstly you can
>easily disable the on-board console port (if you want to use a DL11 for
>some reason) and secondly you can disable the unibus arbiter so that the
>CPU can be a slave device on the unibus of another machine.
>
>>
>> The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP
>> 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and
completely
>> hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane
if
>
>Seems reasonable. Modifying backplanes isn't _that_ hard if you are
>careful. I've done a couple of major backplane mods. The best thing to do
>is to make a wirelist and tick off each wire as you do it. Oh, and don't
>bother with one of those slit-n-wrap tools -- the general experience of
>those is that about 10% of the connections are actually good. Do the job
>properly, and it will work.
>
>-tony
>
I've already posted this to the PS/2 newsgroup but thought I'd drop it in here
too just in case - I believe the machine in question is old enough (or odd
enough) to qualify.
Basically I'm in the process of restoring a Model 50 I was given recently and
was wondering if anyone could point me at a technical reference guide for the
machine?
I also have a couple of questions.
1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what
capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one?
2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of interest)?
3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot
farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the
processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB.
The card has a daughter board attached which is about half as long as the
card. The visible part of the main PCB contains three (empty) 72-pin SIMM
sockets.
Any ideas on what this may be (some sort of turbo board, 386SX upgrade, etc)?
Was it fitted as standard or was it added later?
4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a
replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU?
Thanks.
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk |
peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk |
peter.pachla(a)virgin.net |
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
--
I have one of these PS2/M50Z. Nice boxen!
There wer two versions the M50 and the M50Z. The latter was the faster 286
of the two.
<1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what
<capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one?
The two standard controllers were 20mb or 60mb but there were later ones to
I think 120mb.
<2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of interest
Not that I know of.
<3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot
<farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the
<processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB.
Likely a memory expansion.
<4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a
<replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU?
best source is a PS/2 wreck (most any of the older models.). there is
a web site that has PS/2 info. Can't seem to find it right now.
Allison
>>One idea that has crossed my mind, but I don't know if there's any way
>>to pull it off: There are obviously lots of "collectors" on E-bay who have
>Between newsgroups and this list you have informed a number of people who
>tend to blab, so lots more get key information.
True, but for every well-connected classic computer user (and I rank
all subscribers to classiccmp as "well-connected"!) I'm willing
to bet there are 1000 others who don't have a clue as to what free resources
there are on the web for their old platform, be it a PDP-11 or a
CP/M machine or a IBM 1401 :-).
>Ebay is simple, put some up for auction. Its an AD.
I'm more concerned with hooking up users with all the free software
archives that are already out there, than with selling any particular item.
Even many of our "collector" pages, where folks put up pictures of their
favorite old computers, often do a very poor job of connecting random readers
to useful resources.
Am I completely misguided in wanting to reach more people - in particular,
folks we haven't already reached - so that they can more effectively use
their classic computers? Many of our efforts on this list
are confined to the small circle of those who are already "in the know".
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
<One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum bid
<and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated increments
<until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached.
Ick, my machine can out bid you machine. Ah, shades of the 87 stockmarket.
I think I stay away from online auctions for another few years.
Allison
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:44:55 -0700 "Mark" <markiw(a)prodigy.net> writes:
>>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top
>>bidder until the end.
>
>Don't you hate it when that happens?
>
>One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum
>bid and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated
>increments
>until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached.
>
>I am writing this on a computer I got there last year at about half
>the going price that way. As eBay has gotten popular it is getting
harder
>to just watch the auctions and bid yourself. In fact, I no longer shop
>there anymore as I think the prices have gone postal.
Well, despite your astute observation, there *are* some bargains
to be had. I just got an NOS 8" FDD for <$4. YOu just have to know
which items are likely to go 'postal' and stay away. . .
Jeff
___________________________________________________________________
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Now see guys? That's the kinda pricing *I* like to see!
(It's the only kind I can afford . . . .)
Jeff
>Let me add a data point, lest Randy or others be left with the idea
>that ebay prices are universal. Last month I bought an 11/73 for $5; the
>zeros came *after* the decimal point.
>
>--
>Kevin
>schoedel(a)kw.igs.net
___________________________________________________________________
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-----Original Message-----
From: schoedel(a)kw.igs.net <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Outbid
>>Randy, I have another 11/73 loaded I was going to put up on EBay , you can
>>have it for $300. It has a tape drive, RD52, memory, 8 line serial port,
>>runs, its missing one switch on the front and the bottom of the stand is
>>cracked.. other than that it runs micro rsx - happy machine. I think I
might
>>be able to dig up an RX50 for it as well.
>
>Let me add a data point, lest Randy or others be left with the idea that
>ebay prices are universal. Last month I bought an 11/73 for $5; the zeros
>came *after* the decimal point.
and I am picking up:
2 Honeywell 316 systems with 4 (I repeat) 4 - PDP 11/05s with 2 RK05 on
each) - FOR FREE!
Either:
1- Straight 8 with full docs or 1- IBM 360 for $200.
I don't think I'll sell any of them for less than $1000.
Just because we get something for $5 or free does not mean they are *worth*
that. (and I'm not even talking EBay dollars!)
john
>
>--
>Kevin
>schoedel(a)kw.igs.net
>
Another thing I've had lying about for a number of years is an apple II-C. Is there anything one can do with this thing hardware-wise to use it for some for of fairly complete I/O processing? If I pry it open, will I find anything there to which I could attach a cable and bring out, say, sufficient signals, etc, to drive a PIA or some such?
Is there a bit of free software one can use to develop code for this thing? I'd like to fiddle with it if it allows putzing with I/O, since I'm always trying to stimulate/monitor SOMETHING to see how/whether it works. A simple box like the II-C might be just the thing.
Any suggestions?
Dick
Randy, I have another 11/73 loaded I was going to put up on EBay , you can
have it for $300. It has a tape drive, RD52, memory, 8 line serial port,
runs, its missing one switch on the front and the bottom of the stand is
cracked.. other than that it runs micro rsx - happy machine. I think I might
be able to dig up an RX50 for it as well.
If you want it or anyone else please email me.
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Kaplan <rkaplan(a)accsys-corp.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:47 AM
Subject: Outbid
>Hello all -
>
>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top
>bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM)
>this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very
>disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs.
>enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new
>collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing
>networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is ebay
>at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and
>friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by.
>
>Randy Kaplan
>
--- daniel <daniel(a)internet.look.ca> wrote:
> >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7261 pair...
> Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have
> both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214
> memory and G231/G110 core drivers.. The 11/05 uses that for it's own memory.
> The older 11/05 backplane did not use +15V either!
Given where this stuff came from (there's an inventory sticker glued to the
back of one of the CPU boards of the company I rescued it from), that all
makes sense.
> Which CPU boards do you have. It's easy to tell. Does one of them have a
> rotary switch to set the baud rate?
It's not in front of me, but I do rememeber spotting one of those button
rotaries on there and wondering what it was for. I recovnize it as usually
being for baud rate, but I was guessing it was some kind of timing adjustment.
> To get an 11/05 running you need:
To jump in out of turn, IIRC, this particular unit also came to me with
an RX11 controller.
> M7260
> M7261
Check.
> G231 X 2
> G110 X 2
> H214 X2
Well... I've only got 16K
> G727 (grant)
I have crates of those, including several "Grantasaurous Rex" cards, the
original third-party double grant card (NPR plus the other three). I should
scan one. For those that haven't seen them, they have no colored handle, but
the PCB is but into a soft-edged T-handle with a dinosaur silkscreened in
red on the "component" side. Somewhere, I still have the original artwork.
Software Results Corp made and shipped one with every COMBOARD(R)
> You don't need a console serial board (M7800) as that was built into the CPU
> board.
I didn't know that. I take it that it uses the standard DL11 cable?
> You can tell the year of the PDP 11/05 CPU set by:
>
> 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked)
Bingo.
> I have restored many PDP 11/05s for "collectors" - yes, at $875 a pop!
Stunning.
> I have about 5-6 cpu sets, 1 is beta.
Interesting.
> >> Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257.
> I have two sets of these and run 8 RK05s, again, restored many of these. You
> need a RK11-D backplane.
I'm not sure I have one of those.
> You can hand wire one (yes I know many who have for UNIBUS operation
I can probably come up with the goodies to do that. I have the remnants
of a PDP-8/L that came as parts with the first one I got... the chassis was
broken (mounting bar in the front), the front panel scavenged, no core and
obviously broken wires on the backplane. I wish I hadn't now, but I did
remove the remaining wires from the backplane (one at a time, documenting
them because it was the only way at the time to try and understand how the
other one worked). The end result is that I have a set of DEC backplane
blocks I could wire into a different configuration. I recycled the stamped
metal bus strips on a couple segments into the upper address bits on a BA11N
way back. DEC used to sell that stuff by the foot. I'd love to get a spool
of it (Ha!)
> The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP
> 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely
> hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if
> you are interested in the wire list to do that.
Wow. Much work. I'll get back to you if I can't find an RK11D backplane.
> The PDP 11/05 needs AClow, DClow,5V, -15V.
>
> The newer ones required +15V.
Muchas Gracias.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed
>> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked
>> "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an
>> 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis
>> for testing?
>
>You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and
>frontpanel for these. There was a 5.25" box versions and a 10.5" box
>version with _different_ backplanes. They won't work in an 11/04 or 11/34
>backplane, though
>
>
Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have
both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214
memory and G231/G110 core drivers.. The 11/05 uses that for it's own memory.
The older 11/05 backplane did not use +15V either!
Which CPU boards do you have. It's easy to tell. Does one of them have a
rotary switch to set the baud rate?
To get an 11/05 running you need:
M7260
M7261
G231 X 2
G110 X 2
H214 X2
G727 (grant)
You don't need a console serial board (M7800) as that was built into the CPU
board.
You can tell the year of the PDP 11/05 CPU set by:
74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked)
72/73 - if there is no baud selection switch
72 (beta) - hand stamped date before June 72, and a different layout of the
M7261 (with loads of wires)
I have restored many PDP 11/05s for "collectors" - yes, at $875 a pop!
I have about 5-6 cpu sets, 1 is beta.
>>
>> Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else
is
>> needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Paddle cards?
I
>
>Again you need the right backplane. Apart from that, not a lot -- the
>cabling is the standard BC11 Unibus cables (both for the Unibus and to
>link up the RK05 drives).
>
>> think I've got an RKV11 box attached to an 11/03 (I haven't pulled it out
of
>
>IIRC 3 of the 4 cards in that box are the same as the ones for the
>RK11-D. The bus control is different (I think).
>
>> the corner yet) If I'm missing too much of it, I can probably fix the
RK11C
>> that I got with my first RK05 drives. I've never used it and neither did
the
>
>Oh, RK11-Cs are fun to fix (for suitable values of 'fun'). I learnt about
>hard disk controllers, Unibus DMA cycles, etc while tracking down a dead
>chip in mine. Having the printset is _essential_, though!
>
>I have prints for the RK11-C and RK11-D, and the PDP11/05. I don't think
>I have the RKV11-D set anywhere, but it can't be that hard to figure out.
I have two sets of these and run 8 RK05s, again, restored many of these. You
need a RK11-D backplane. You can hand wire one (yes I know many who have)
for UNIBUS operation - PDP 11/05.
The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP
11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely
hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if
you are interested in the wire list to do that.
The PDP 11/05 needs AClow, DClow,5V, -15V.
The newer ones required +15V.
>
>-tony
>
Curious what are they going for? I'm still finding them for free to $100
a really nice corperate system complete might be worth more if you can haul
it in the associted racks.
Allison
<About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top
<bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM)
<this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very
<disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs.
<enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new
<collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing
<networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is ebay
<at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and
<friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by.
Thanks for the KayPro history reminder. I have not forgotten the Web page
project and have just added your note to the file. I will get moving on it
as soon as the weather turns winter.
And please people, send me some scans of any and all KayPro graphics/photos
you might have. So far only one gentleman has sent anything. Let's not let
these fine machines be forgotten. (Okay, so maybe I should get a life,
huh?) Send your KayPro scans to me at tgycwr(a)yahoo.com best.
Thanks,
Jim Rossbach,
Visit the Web sites of Navy Vietnam Veterans at the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club,
http://tonkinyachts.cjb.net
>
>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top
>bidder until the end.
Don't you hate it when that happens?
One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum bid
and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated increments
until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached.
I am writing this on a computer I got there last year at about half the
going price that way. As eBay has gotten popular it is getting harder to
just watch the auctions and bid yourself. In fact, I no longer shop there
anymore as I think the prices have gone postal.
Regards,
Jim Rossbach,
Visit the Web sites of Navy Vietnam Veterans at the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club,
http://tonkinyachts.cjb.net
If you're going to bid on e-bay, be prepared to get hurt.
It's the most unforgiving marketplace on earth. It is
regularly prowled by individuals with *extremely*
deep pockets.
Jeff
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:47:38 -0400 Randy Kaplan <rkaplan(a)accsys-corp.com>
writes:
>Hello all -
>
>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top
>bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM)
>this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very
>disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs.
>enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new
>collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing
>networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is
>ebay
>at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and
>friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by.
>
>Randy Kaplan
>
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
While passing time on a snowy day when I didn't want to go outside yesterday, I saw the manual for a Commodore 64 while sifting through the rubble. I also found a VIC-20 manual while doing this sifting.
Would this be of interest to anyone?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:13 AM
Subject: TImex SInclair 1000 Manual
While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it?
Dick
Since everyone is on the subject of Kaypro here is some information that
I have compiled from articles I have read.. Kaypro BTW is my favorite
computer I have at least one of every model in my collection, excluding
a Kaypro Robie.. ALso have a Model 16 .. Perhaps someone could update
this list and ad to it.. The more information the better.. Hope this is
of some interest to everyone..
Phil...
Kaypro Computer and Non-Linear Systems
After Adam Osborne came out with the O-1, it was immediately set up as a
target. Every company started shooting at the magic price of $1800.
Among the people to set their sights at this figure was Alan Kay. Alan
had originally started a company which sold oscilloscopes called
Non-Linear Systems. He decided Osborne had the right idea, but needed a
little tweaking on the case. He envisioned a computer which would not
only be rugged enough to be carried around, but would be tough enough to
be carried out in the field by engineers. With this idea in mind, he
designed the Kaypro Computer.
The case was made of aluminum which allowed it to be extremely rugged,
but still save a little weight. These are sometimes nicknamed "Darth
Vader's lunch box." Needless to say, this case passed the test for
ruggedness. Except for the Robie and later DOS machines, all Kaypros
had the same case and varying shades of gray paint.
All the computers came bundled with software, originally the Perfect
Series, but later WordStar and
SuperCalc.
Kay originally sold his computers under the company name of Kaypro, but
it turned out this name had already been taken. He then sold the
computers under the Non-Linear name, but was able to keep the Kaypro
name on the computers. Somewhere along the way, he did manage to acquire
the rights to Kaypro Company, but it was late in the company's life.
The Kaypro II is the oldest computer Kaypro made. It has SSDD disks and
the screen is green and it has the standard 64 K of RAM.
After Kaypro left Chapter 11, they came out with several DOS
compatibles, but were no longer considered a force in the industry.
There were several unique units that came out including some extremely
compact units that were designed to be desktop computers but were light
enough to be carried from place to place.
Kaypro II
In the beginning there was the Kaypro II (aka II'83 later). It came
with 2 SS/DD full-height floppies, a 2.5 MHz Z-80, one serial port, and
bundled software from Perfect Software. Introduced late 82.
Kaypro 10
Next was the original Kaypro 10. It came with 1 DS/DD floppy drive, a 10
meg HD, a 4.0 MHz Z-80A, two serial ports, light pen port, rudimentary
graphics, a real time clock, and software from Perfect
Software and dBase II. Introduced mid-83.
Kaypro IV
Then there was a Kaypro IV (aka IV'83 later). It was a II, but with
DS/DD full-height floppy drives. Wordstar started being included in
addition to the Perfect Software suite. Introduced in mid-83. (Same goes
for the II'83, late versions included Wordstar also.)
1984 rolls around, and some changes made.
Kaypro 4
The 4 (aka 4'84) is introduced. It now has two DS/DD half-height floppy
drives, a Z-80A at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, internal 300 baud modem, a
real-time clock, rudimentary graphics. Software is from Micropro
(Wordstar, Calcstar, etc.) Early 1984.
Kaypro 2
The 2 (aka 2'83) is introduced. It has two SS/DD half-height floppy
drives, a Z-80A at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, rudimentary graphics.
Software is from Micropro. Slightly later in 84.
Kaypro 2X
The 2X is introduced. This is closer to an old IV, or a 2 with DS/DD
half-height drives. Again a Z-80A running at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports,
rudimentary graphics, software from Micropro.
Kaypro Robbie
Early 84. The Kaypro Robie is introduced. This is the first non-portable
machine, a black desktop. This has 2 2.6 Megabyte (not a typo) floppy
drives. Motherboard is basically the same as a 4, with the 300 baud
modem, rough graphics, etc. (late 84?)
1985 arrives. Kaypro upgrades most of the machines to the "Universal
ROM", so a boot disk for one can be used in another.
The 4'84 is renamed the 2X (sometimes known as 2X MTC). Old 2X, 2'84,
4'84 are all dropped.
Kaypro New 2
The "New 2" is introduced. This is basically an old 2X motherboard, but
with just one DS/DD floppy drive. It comes with just CP/M and Wordstar
for software. (early 85?)
Kaypro starts producing the II'83 again, with Perfect software as
opposed to Micropro software. (early 85).
Kaypro 4X
The Kaypro 4X is announced. It's a Robie but in the standard portable
case. I also have seen reference to the 12X, which was going to be a
Kaypro 10 but with a Robie floppy drive. (I've never actually
seen a 4X or a 12X. The store where I worked might have sold only one or
two Robies, so it wasn't a big seller.)
1986 or so arrives.
Kaypro 1
The Kaypro 1 (yes one) is introduced. It's equivalent to the old 2X,
with 2 DS/DD floppies, 4.0 MHz Z-80A, 2 serial ports, etc. The floppies
are vertical as opposed to horizontal. It comes with
CP/M and Perfect Writer for software.
At this point, Kaypro is producing just the 1, 2X MTC, 10 and Robie
basically. This continued until they got out of the CP/M machines.
There were also a few variations on some of these machines, such as the
4+88, which had a SWP (?) co-processor board with an 8088, 256K of
memory (which could be a ramdisk under CP/M), and could run some MS/Dos
software.
While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it?
Dick
I have two systems that I have finished restoring that I would consider for
trade for either an older PDP 8 or some negibus peripherals.
Both CPUs are running and very happy.
The PDP 11/05 has 16K core memory (2X H214) and has a KW11-P (real time
clock) in it.It runs well. I really like 11/05's!!! This unit comes with a
copy of the engineering docs, as well as the 11/05 computer manual (theory).
The PDP 11/45 (runs, yes... really). I restored this CPU back in '86. I am
just moving the PDP 11/45 CPU and console serial port. It comes with one
supply and boots RT-11V5 (so it has been well tested) . This CPU is FAST
compared to a 34. You have to run your own BA11 memory box... I might be
convinced to part with some MOS memory and backplane for the right deal.
This PDP 11/45 was really a pain to restore as I had no documents on it and
spent the better part of two days scoping the inital problems. I have seen
engineering docs go on EBay so finding them is not a problem anymore.
Cash is always welcome.
If a deal can't be struck then I'll be dropping these beasts on EBay.
I am trimming my collection so these two have to go.
P.S. I picked up a Nova 2 yesterday with Diablo drives, 6 boxes of
documentation, 5 big boxes of paper (RDOS, fortran, algol, basic, etc...),
kennedy tape drive, graphics generator, and of course a "Ken-Net" box to
network it to a PDP. I think I have every paper tape/document ever made for
this system.
PDP - 8/S - I picked up the rest of the documents on it including - PC0 tape
unit, PT08, floating point, the original "Flip Chip modules manual - rev. 1
, '65" and "Flip Chip Modules Seminar" as put on by DEC in 1965. The system
is running everything and is very happy.
Reading about how the Flip Chips were made was absolutely amazing.... (many
pictures).
john
That's it Tony, and yes... I'm serious. They connected the ASR-33 across an
inverter and shorted it out when the relay transmits. The R107 is RTL (with
a real transistor) so it can't damage it.
I made the change and...... the PDP 8/s is now running DECUS tic tac
toe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got the docs finally on the PT08 and found a -3V reference supply was in
the wrong slot... That would account for the problem I had initially.
Otherwise the entire system is now happy.
BTW: I also picked up the ASR 33 schematics and the "Teletype Service
Manual - ASR 33" as well.
Thanks for the help.
john
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Urgent Current Loop Question - ASR 33 / PT08
>>
>> Before I attempt to figure this one out I would like to know if anyone
else
>> can help me.
>
>I know the ASR33 pretty well, but I've never seen an 8/s. But maybe I can
>help. I'm going to assume you have the sort of ASR33 that's normally used
>with computers -- that's to say one with a current loop interface.
>There's s 3 position knob on the front of the machine (line/off/local)
>and no other controls on the 'call control unit' (electronics module).
>
>>
>> I hooked up an ASR-33 (non DEC) to my PDP-8/s. I ran a maindec program
and
>> the PDP could talk to the teletype no problem, never an error.
>>
>> After spending 4 1/2 hours cleaning up bad solder joints on the receiver
I
>> got it up and running.... *kind of*
>>
>> The problem is this: The ASR-33 is interfaced to the PDP currently by
tying
>> one receive line to the input of a R107 (transistor inverter) and the
other
>> receiver line to the output of the same inverter. Then, the signal is
>> *conditioned* (inverted) a few times before it is passed onto shift
>> registers,,, etc..
>
>Are you sure this is right. It sounds crazy to me (and now I'll get a
>pile of replies pointing out how DEC were being clever here)...
>
>The ASR33 transmit loop is electrically a switch. Actually it's a complex
>array of switches. but in the end, it either shorts the 2 Tx terminals or
>opens them. There is no voltage on either terminal (in a 'stock ASR33')
>from the ASR33 electronics. There are no other components involved.
>
>Connecting a switch between the input and output of an inverter is not
>normally a good way to get a clean logic signal ;-)
>
>The normal circuit (used in all sorts of machines) is to connect one of
>the tty Tx wires to one supply rail, possibly through a small resistor
>to limit the current in the event of a short somewhere). The other tty Tx
>wire to the other supply rail through a (larger) resistor. And then to
>monitor the voltage at the 'top' of that resistor, say by connecting it
>to the input of a logic gate.
>
>>
>> If I hook up the teletype the WAY the circuit exists now I get a 0-1V
data
>> signal (notice positive) out of the first inverter which of course is
>> totally incompatible with the others and the signal never passes through
>> beyond the first inverter.
>>
>> If I disconnect the FIRST inverter from the second one and LEAVE the one
>> receive line in the input of the first inverter ("floating") and hook up
the
>> SECOND receive line to the input of the now *disconnected* second
inverter I
>> get data. Most of the time good, but some bad characters get through.
>>
>> This is obviously not a working current loop solution.
>>
>> If the teletype is passive should I just connect the receive line on the
>> input of the first inverter to ground or -3V???
>
>Well, I could understand connecting the tty Tx loop between the input of
>one inverter and the output of another one, especially if the input of
>the latter was tied to a known logic level (so the output is just a
>constant voltage source, etc). This makes an assumption about how
>floating inputs behave, which may be OK on transistorised logic like this.
>
>You are _sure_ that you've connected to the right pins on the R107
>module, and that in fact that's the right module to be using?
>
>> #1) As I don't have docs nearby on the ASR-33 and have never had a VERY
>> simple interface like this CAN I short the one receive line to ground
or -3
>> volts????
>
>Sure. Just make sure the TTY contacts don't have to carry high currents
>(like don't connect the loop across the PSU) unless you like repairing
>burnt/melted switches...
>
>>
>> I just want to make sure the ASR 33 does not have any active part that
will
>> eat my PT08 for breakfast.
>
>Not that I know of...
>
>-tony
>
Anyone want a WWII navy radio reciever? 70 pounds of iron, tubes, and
vernier tuning. Shortwave bands.
I'm not shipping it, and i'm getting real serious about tossing it out.
SO, you need to be in Minneapolis, or coming by this area reasonably soon.
Don't expect it to work, of course.
-Lawrence LeMay
In einer eMail vom 16.10.99 20:56:37 MEZ, schreiben Sie:
<<
Gonna try to take a RL02 as carry-on luggage? :-).
The above comment was only half-joking - I once took a full 10.5" high
PDP-11/44 on an international flight. The power supply (the heavy part!)
was removed and carried on, so that the main chassis (now just the
steel frame and backplanes) weighed about 45 pounds and could fly without
any checked-luggage-over-weight-allowance charges.
I was lucky that day - they didn't weigh carry-ons (they often do in
Europe now, and I think the limit is 5 or 7.5 kgs!)
>>
I fly a lot, and my hand luggage _NEVER_ has been weighted. However,
I would not try to do that anyway (too lazy for lifting large weights when
travelling), but there are many very good freight services in the US, a simple
reference to the yellow pages will always allow me to take care of
shipping within less than a day. It is simply so very much easier to find
things in the US than in Europe, that shipping costs are outweighted by that.
If you get together something on the order of at least 500 kg (a pallete
full, say)
I find that quite reasonable.
John G. Zabolitzky
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair...
For the record, the above number is a typo... it should be M7260/M7261 pair.
> You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and
> frontpanel for these.
I might have a 5.25" 11/05 box at the back of the pile. I probably pulled
the cards to keep them in a better environment.
> > Finally, we come to an RK11D board set...
>
> IIRC 3 of the 4 cards in that box are the same as the ones for the
> RK11-D. The bus control is different (I think).
Makes sense.
> Oh, RK11-Cs are fun to fix (for suitable values of 'fun'). I learnt about
> hard disk controllers, Unibus DMA cycles, etc while tracking down a dead
> chip in mine.
I have an ace up my sleeve - I can test basic M-series modules out of
circuit with a chip tester and a harness I built from a test clip and some
ribbon cable. I can clamp the test clip on each chip in turn for cards
like the M216 or M111 etc. Takes second. I did build a FLIP-CHIP tester
for the VIC-20 (the bare boards were available at RatShack), but I never
wrote the software. I wanted to make a table-driven thing with graphical
display of what faulty chips were found, but I never wrote a meta-language
to decribe each signal, in and out, to be able to succinctly list off enough
info to test a few dozen types of boards.
> Having the printset is _essential_, though!
Almost always the case.
> I have prints for the RK11-C and RK11-D, and the PDP11/05. I don't think
> I have the RKV11-D set anywhere, but it can't be that hard to figure out.
Are these available scanned anywhere? Are you looking for any docs that
we might be able to swap bits on? I don't relish paying to ship slices of
dead trees across the pond.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
< I think our California members should store their more precious old
<computers on the east side of the fault line in case the rest of Californi
<should someday slide off into the Pacific.
Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;)
Upon the date 05:14 PM 10/16/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something
like:
>> Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;)
>
>My understanding of the tectonic plate movement is that everything east of
>the Hayward/Roger's Creek fault will slide into the Atlantic.
Oh thanks Fred :-/ Now I'll have to go out and buy flood insurance :(
--Chris (in Western NY State)
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
I am supposed to go a look at a very old PDP-11/04 this
week and would appreciate some help as to how the front
panel is set up. Mainly, I want to be able to look at the
program that was loaded using hardware ODT, that is
just examine the program and confirm that it is the same
as a listing that I will have on a laptop which I will bring along.
I don't have to verify all 20 KBytes of the program, just
look at it ever 1000 octal bytes to verify that it is the same
at about 20 locations.
I doubt if this information makes any difference, but I
have been told it operates with paper tape, has core
memory and an ASR-33 as the console device. Also,
the program is stand alone (obviously since it has no
disk drives).
Mainly, I just want to press the HALT switch or button.
Then I want to look at memory via hardware ODT, then
restart the system without changing anything at all.
Is this possible? I know how to do it on an 11/73. And
I used to be able to do in on an 11/34.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
>After several years of "emergency" storage, I am relocating a large pile of
>mostly DEC stuff from a friend's basement. I am finding stuff that I have
>been looking for and finding stuff I forgot I had.
Hey, I know what that feels like. Closest thing I can remember to
Christmas morning as a little kid :-).
>One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked
>"datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an
>11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis
>for testing?
If I'm not mistaken, the chassis will be OK, but you'll need an 11/05
backplane and front panel.
>Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is
>needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane?
Yep, the backplane you want will have a sticker saying "RK11-D" on it.
> Paddle cards?
Standard Unibus cable connectors will do fine.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>I know myself that I've not found _all_ of the PDP-11 and uVAX resources.
>I've noticed some webpages, for example, never come up in any search engine
>because the owner hasn't indexed their page properly or at all. I can
>search till I'm blue in the face and miss stuff.
Absolutely true. I already complained about the freeware archives that
I maintain dropping out of several prominent search engines where they
used to be prominently mentioned.
The pages (and pages referring to these pages) have been submitted to
the search engines many times since they disappeared, but have never
come back.
Here's where I'm sure someone can help me. If anyone could look at,
for example, my DECUS freeware index at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/
and particularly suggest which META tags I might have to add again to
make this page (and the pages that it refers to) show up in search
engines, I'd greatly appreciate it! Back when these pages were
indexed by search engines, they'd get hundreds of search hits a day.
But now they never ever turn up, and I don't know why. I mean, the
pages still have the same information they always did, and it's not
like anyone else has a similar index on the web that replaces this
one.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but it seemed to me that a couple of
years ago the search engines did a very good job of finding a page
based on content. For example, if I knew a key phrase that occured
somewhere on a page, I could do an Altavista search for that phrase
(in quotes) and get a hit every single time. This doesn't seem to
work the same way anymore. Is it because search engines no longer
index based on content? If they aren't based on content, then what
the heck are they based on?
And I've also been warned that adding too many META tags will actually
cause some search engines to reject a page (or even an entire site)
for indexing, as they don't want folks essentially using search
engines as a form of Spam.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>So where was this quake for us less informed types?
>
>--Chuck
A 7.0 about 30 miles N of Joshua Tree (that is, about 90 miles
ENE of downtown LA). See
http://www.scec.org/
for more details.
According to the folks I know east of LA, the quake felt *much* bigger than the
'92 Landers Earthquake which was a 7.3 (and I personally rode out,
along with the Northridge quake a few years later.) Lots of stuff
thrown off tables and shelves.
Supposedly one of the I-40 bridges in Barstow is pretty badly damaged,
but still standing.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
After several years of "emergency" storage, I am relocating a large pile of
mostly DEC stuff from a friend's basement. I am finding stuff that I have
been looking for and finding stuff I forgot I had. Today was diskpack and
circuit-board day (rack day comes later ;-)
The most striking thing I found was a lot of PDP-11 core memory. If anyone is
looking for some, I'm willing to trade it for PDP-8 core, something I can put
to better use. In addition to several PDP-11/20 4K stacks (H207), there are
a couple of H214 stacks and one hex-height 16k set, G235, H217C and G114. I
do have driver boards for the 4K stacks, but not all the backplanes (I rescued
as much as I could of the contents of an 11/20 from the dumpster at work
around 1988, but it just wasn't all in there). I might even still have the
CPU box, but it is likely that I don't have a power supply.
One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked
"datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an
11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis
for testing?
Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is
needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Paddle cards? I
think I've got an RKV11 box attached to an 11/03 (I haven't pulled it out of
the corner yet) If I'm missing too much of it, I can probably fix the RK11C
that I got with my first RK05 drives. I've never used it and neither did the
people I got it from (they wanted the drives for something else and already
had the controller). I would like to back up the several dozen RK packs I
moved today, too. I have several options for CPUs and OSes, but I need to
identify which RK controllers are going to work before I can see about spinning
off RK images.
We took some pictures with my friend's digital camera. I'll post a URL when
he gets them to me and I get them up on my page.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Up Heads:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:52:15 -0600
From: Charles Stoyer <cstoyer(a)support.interpex.com>
To: Info-PDP11(a)transarc.com
Subject: FS: PDP 11/03, 23 73
I have 3 LSI-11's from the very late '70's, early '80's. Basic units have
processor and RX02 drive. Accessories include 1 9-track tape drive (1600/800
bpi), RL02 10Mb disk drive (can't get removable disk out), A/D and clock
boards. Some spares.
Processors include 11/73, 11/23 and maybe 11/03.
At last check I think everything was in working order. Also Tektronix 4006
and large Non-DEC wide printer/printing terminal (dot matrix).
I can ship UPS ground if items are within limits. Items are in Golden,
Colorado, USA (near Denver).
No reasonable offer refused. E-mail cstoyer(a)support.interpex.com if
interested.
Charles
--
Charles Stoyer
Golden CO
----------
To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to
info-pdp11-request(a)village.org, with the first line of the message
body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes).
>Now had I known that! I was acting upon the assumption that like most other
>drives the 60 Hz RL02s would not work without significant changeover on the
>German 50 Hz power. Thank you very much for that info, next time I will
>know better and secure the drives.
Gonna try to take a RL02 as carry-on luggage? :-).
The above comment was only half-joking - I once took a full 10.5" high
PDP-11/44 on an international flight. The power supply (the heavy part!)
was removed and carried on, so that the main chassis (now just the
steel frame and backplanes) weighed about 45 pounds and could fly without
any checked-luggage-over-weight-allowance charges.
I was lucky that day - they didn't weigh carry-ons (they often do in
Europe now, and I think the limit is 5 or 7.5 kgs!)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I rescued two RTE manuals from the trash.
RTE System Internals, Volumes I and II, February 1981.
They look manuals from an HP training course.
Manuals are FREE.
I figure $5 should cover mailing within the US-48.
Lemme know or back in the bin they go.
Lance.
Lance Costanzo http://www.webhighrise.com
System Administrator Website and Virtual Domain Hosting
lance(a)costanzo.net starting at $5/month, no setup fees
Now had I known that! I was acting upon the assumption that like most other
drives the 60 Hz RL02s would not work without significant changeover on the
German 50 Hz power. Thank you very much for that info, next time I will
know better and secure the drives.
John G. Zabolitzky
<<<
In fact, my "RL01/RL02 Disk Drive Maintenance Course" textbook says:
The circuits controlling the drive motor in line are
located on two modules. The drive logic module
decodes the speed of the rotating spindle and sends
the signals to the AC servo module which controls
the drive motor's duty cycle.
>>>
>Well I see that just about every computer-related section on eBay has an
>entry for "Computer mini-vacuum only $14.99". I guess that if you have the
>time to develop a script that reposts your item (read "advertisement") to
>dozens of sections every week, for supposed auction, then eBay doesn't
>mind. Personally I find this sort of ad irritating.
I find it very tacky, too! Besides, E-bay frowns on any links
which refer to anything they may possibly view as a competitor, and
I'm already teamed up with Amazon.com myself. (Besides, some folks
here already view my teaming with Amazon.com as if I had signed a pact
with the devil, but that's another story.)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Before I attempt to figure this one out I would like to know if anyone else
can help me.
I hooked up an ASR-33 (non DEC) to my PDP-8/s. I ran a maindec program and
the PDP could talk to the teletype no problem, never an error.
After spending 4 1/2 hours cleaning up bad solder joints on the receiver I
got it up and running.... *kind of*
The problem is this: The ASR-33 is interfaced to the PDP currently by tying
one receive line to the input of a R107 (transistor inverter) and the other
receiver line to the output of the same inverter. Then, the signal is
*conditioned* (inverted) a few times before it is passed onto shift
registers,,, etc..
If I hook up the teletype the WAY the circuit exists now I get a 0-1V data
signal (notice positive) out of the first inverter which of course is
totally incompatible with the others and the signal never passes through
beyond the first inverter.
If I disconnect the FIRST inverter from the second one and LEAVE the one
receive line in the input of the first inverter ("floating") and hook up the
SECOND receive line to the input of the now *disconnected* second inverter I
get data. Most of the time good, but some bad characters get through.
This is obviously not a working current loop solution.
If the teletype is passive should I just connect the receive line on the
input of the first inverter to ground or -3V???
Picture below:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
The way it was:
Receive #1 -----------|>o----------(Receive #2)----------|>o---------|>o---
etc..
The SIGNAL at receive #2 was 0 -> +1 Volt (data)
The way it is now:
Receive #1-------|>o--- [broken] Receive
#2 -------|>o-------|>o------|>o----------
Clean looking data but flaky (prob due to the other *floating line*.
#1) As I don't have docs nearby on the ASR-33 and have never had a VERY
simple interface like this CAN I short the one receive line to ground or -3
volts????
I just want to make sure the ASR 33 does not have any active part that will
eat my PT08 for breakfast.
john
You made some good suggestions, and what I write below may look
as if I'm criticizing your techniques. I'm not critcizing your
techniques - they're about as good as they come! - but I am criticizing
how various phenomena on the web put people off of finding appropriate
resources.
>Here's how I find anything for classic computers:
>------------------------------------------------
>Look on 5 or 6 different search engines.
Unfortunately, many of the best classic archives have "dropped
off" the responses of most search engines. For instance, at one
point in time all of the DECUS indices I maintain at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/
were tracked by Altavista and other major search engines. In the
past six months, though, they've all dropped off. Why? I think
it has to do with the trend for search engine designers to think that
"if it's old, it's not relevant", and in the web-world 6-months
old is *old*. Anyone seen the HotBot ads? If your web page is a
few months old, they rank you with the geezers!
With the increasing trend toward more glitzy web sites, I'm afraid that
an archive 20 or 30-year old text, source code, and assembler source
is going to get even fewer hits by many modern search engines.
>Search Dejanews.
This, actually, is pretty good, if you find the right responses. Many
Usenet responses, though, are of the form "see the FAQ" or "see the
<name but not URL goes here> archive", and a newbie won't know how to
find what the respondent is talking about.
(This applies to this mailing list here, too, BTW. There's a common
reliance on internal resources instead of pointing folks toward
resources maintained by folks off-list.)
>Post questions to this list and/or appropriate mailing lists/newsgroups.
Sure, this works quite well if you're already "in the know" enough to
know where to ask. I'm mainly concerned about folks who don't know where
to start.
>Look on eBay/Haggle/etc for possible books.
What I would really, really like to see is for places like eBay or
Amazon or Haggle maintain references to items they don't offer for sale.
Of course, there's zero commercial incentive for them to do so.
>Besides the web, mailing lists and newsgroups, events like the VCF are
>great.
Again, a wonderful resource for those already in the know! Though
if we're lucky some of the media coverage of the VCF events will actually
contain useful links to this mailing list and other resources.
>And perhaps people on this list who frequent swapmeets which are
>frequented by other classic computer enthusiasts would be willing to have
>a little stack of flyers sitting on a corner of their table.
This is a *very* excellent suggestion! Maybe I can help make it happen.
I can put together a glitzy postscript file (hey, I'm getting pretty
good at page layout in writing postscript by hand these days) with
good PDP-11/DEC resources listed on it.
Again, I'm putting my emphasis not necessarily on collectors, but on people who
continue to use classic computers. I, myself, am not particularly impressed
by websites that are just pictures of someone's computer collection and
talk about these machines as relics from the past or museum items. But
I *am* impressed by folks who continue to actively develop for older
platforms, and want to let the wider world know what's available today.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Pardon the noise, but I need to contact . . . .
Clint-- I need you to contact me via private
e-mail. The last address I got bounces.
Thanks!
Jeff
We now return you to our normally scheduled programme . ..
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
I recently added a VAXStation 3100 M48 to my collection. As with almost
every other bit I've added, I got a few questions:
1) The output from a >>> sh mem command is:
01000000
00000000
00FE3E00:00FFFFFF
What does this translate to???
2) What monitor would I need / be able to use with this box? I'm using
VT320 for a console now, but the thought of an OpenVMSWindows box has
potential....
3) When I try to boot from the external RZ55 I got with it, VMS 5.5.2
comes up and hangs (solid) after displaying:
%TMSCPLOAD-I-LOADTMSCP, loading the TMSCP tape server
This happens even trying to boot to VMS's single user mode, and
with or without a TK50Z attached...
Any thoughts???
Thanks....
Stan
On Oct 15, 18:41, Tony Duell wrote:
> Subject: Re: pdp8/f (now Amiga poster)
> > case of good manners. Once you've made a deal with someone you simply
don't
> > back out just because you got a better offer etc - it's just NOT done!
:-(
>
> One thing I've learnt from this thread is that there are people here who
> I do not intend to make deals with -- ever. Their standard of behaviour
> and mine are just too different.
Before anyone gets too much more upset by this discussion, perhaps I should
mention that John just told me that if I really wanted the book, he thought
it had once been available on the web. That reminded me of something I
checked out a year or two ago. The curious might investigate
https://toolbox.sgi.com/toolbox/hardware/hwHandbook/
but don't expect vast amounts of serious technical info.
BTW, if anyone has the "GIO Bus Specification" referred to in Chapter 4,
I'd like a copy :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
In a message dated 10/15/99 7:19:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk writes:
> I've already posted this to the PS/2 newsgroup but thought I'd drop it in
> here
> too just in case - I believe the machine in question is old enough (or odd
> enough) to qualify.
>
> Basically I'm in the process of restoring a Model 50 I was given recently
> and
> was wondering if anyone could point me at a technical reference guide for
> the
> machine?
http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/cdt/hmm.html
> I also have a couple of questions.
>
> 1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what
> capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one?
you can only use drives originally assigned to the machine unless you want to
go scsi external...
>
> 2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of
interest)?
>
no. not supported.
> 3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot
> farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the
> processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB.
>
> The card has a daughter board attached which is about half as long as the
> card. The visible part of the main PCB contains three (empty) 72-pin SIMM
> sockets.
>
> Any ideas on what this may be (some sort of turbo board, 386SX upgrade,
etc)?
run peter wendt's adaptor card id'er program. goto
http://members.aol.com/mcapage0 the program is listed on the ps2 support
page he has.
>
> Was it fitted as standard or was it added later?
>
> 4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a
> replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU?
only way to fix is replace ps from a parts machine.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> TTFN - Pete.
DB Young Team OS/2
--> this message printed on recycled disk space
view the computers of yesteryear at
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
(now accepting donations!)
I didn't ever see an answer to this post nor am I sure it ever went out.
Sorry if this is a repost...
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay West <west(a)tseinc.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:01 PM
Subject: PDP-11/44 assistance....
> Tony had asked about what chips were in the standard memories board that I
> posted about....
>
> It is Standard Memories MM-144. Unibus: there's two rows of 20 ram chips
> each, and underneath that is two rows of 20 empty sockets each. Underneath
> that is two rows of 19 ram chips each, and underneath it is two rows of 19
> empty sockets each. So, (2x20)+(2x19)=78 chips total. The chips are all
OKI
> M3764-20RS. On the right side of the board on the top are three LED's
> designated +5B, RUN, and U.ERR. Underneath that is a 14 pin DIP jumper
pad,
> and two 8 switch DIPS. Any ideas on how much memory this is and would
anyone
> happen to have docs on this board?
>
> Also, I think my previous post about the modules in the 44 wasn't listed
> correctly. The slots are filled as follows:
>
> 1 A-B M7090 CIM
> 4 A-F M7094
> 5 A-F M7095
> 6 A-F M7096
> 7 A-F M7097
> 8 A-F M7098
> 10 A-F MM-144 (see above)
> 14 A-B first half of M9202
> 15 A-B 2nd half of M9202
> 16 D G727A
> 23 M9302
>
> I found it odd (to my very uninformed mind) that the G727A was stock in
slot
> 16 D with nothing else around it. If I don't want to hook anything up to
> this system other than a serial console for now, how should I move the
above
> cards around to prevent continuity problems???
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Jay West
>
>
>
Hi all,
there are 5 RL02 drives sitting at a scrapper in the San Diego area.
All Computer Surplus 297 S Marshall Ave El Cajun
Since I am travelling, no time at hand, and furthermore facing the 50 Hz/60 Hz
problem, I could not do anything about it.
John G. Zabolitzky
On Oct 15, 19:18, Tony Duell wrote:
> > Now I've never used a RL02 drive on 50Hz power, but I'm 99% certain
that
> > the motor speed in a RL02 is determined by a servo loop, and thus
> > not locked to a multiple of the AC frequency.
>
> Currect. From the RL01/RL02 Technical Manual :
>
> 'RL01/RL02 drives are shipped from the factory as 115Vac/60Hz units.
> Field change to 230Vac 50 or 60Hz is acoomplished by reversing either of
> two terminal block covers located externally at the rear of the drive.
> The RL drives run the motor at considerably below synchronous speed. They
> control the motor speed with a couple of triacs on the AC Servo Module,
> and measure the speed (IIRC) using the sector pulse timing. That's why
> the disk spins _very_ fast if you forget to plug the transducer in...
Or if the AC servo board goes in certain ways, as I discovered in one of a
pair I got from Heriot-Watt University: the local DEC engineer had at some
time in the dim and distant passed fixed one drive by swapping the AC servo
for one that was rarely used.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Hi Folks,
I finally got something that I've been after for a long time. It's a
Tektronix System Test Fixture, PN 067-0746-00. It's for the Tektronix 4051
computer, 4662 Plotter, 4924 Tape unit and other Tektronix items that use
the 6800 CPU. It's a box with switches and indicator lights that lets you
halt the system CPU and view and change the contents of any memory
location, single step the system, etc. You can also set it to halt the
system when it gets to a certain address or when a certain data word
occurrs. It also contains a ROM with test routines for the 40551 computer.
A friend of mine found this at a flea market and I've been trying to get it
away from him for months. My persistance finally paid off.
Joe
While reading the usual morning mail, a bit of irony chased its way
through my gray matter.
While on my recent trip to the Bay Area, both to attend part of VCF and do
a little scrounging, I was high bidder for a nice HP 545A logic probe a
fellow had up on E-pay (around $25 if I recall). I was able to pick it up
while on said trip, as he lived in south San Jose.
Picking this up completed my collection of HP's logic
probe/troubleshooting family: Probe, pulser, and current tracer. To this
day, I still consider this set one of the best for poking around in both
legacy and current logic circuits.
A few months back, when I'd gotten hold of the current tracer, several
folks were envious, though I couldn't understand why even after asking
around and getting a basic idea of what it was used for.
I'm now well into my second year towards my A.A.S. degree in Electronics,
and my current class is Intro to Digital circuits. I find it most ironic
that my textbook, published less than a year ago, should make extensive
reference to all THREE HP probes (which were first developed in the
mid-70's or earlier), including the current tracer, and show clear
illustrations of how they're all used to find stuck levels, shorted inputs,
etc.
What works well does indeed endure. ;-)
I do not regret going back to college, despite the effort of cramming
Boolean algebra and Karnaugh maps into my gray matter! (though I find I
really do like working with Karnaughs. They simplify things immensely!)
On we go...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our
own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Further to my efforts to free up some room, a smaller item of possible
interest.
A (very) old IMSAI 8080 chassis. Consists of the chassis, IMSAI
backplane, 10amp (point to point wiring) power supply, IMSAI CPU card,
display mask and plexiglass panels. Missing the front panel board, upper
cover, grey switch bezel. (it gave of itself to restore a number of
other machines over the years)
Trades or offers of $$ entertained... (before I give in to the siren call
of ePay... B^} ) For trade suggestions check out the 'Most wanted'
section on the 'Garage' web site.
Have at you!
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives
>there are 5 RL02 drives sitting at a scrapper in the San Diego area.
>All Computer Surplus 297 S Marshall Ave El Cajun
>Since I am travelling, no time at hand, and furthermore facing the 50 Hz/60 Hz
>problem, I could not do anything about it.
Now I've never used a RL02 drive on 50Hz power, but I'm 99% certain that
the motor speed in a RL02 is determined by a servo loop, and thus
not locked to a multiple of the AC frequency.
I think the fan in a 50Hz RL02 will run a bit slower, but I don't think
this will hurt anything.
The power selector blocks on the back of the drive allow the selection of
90-128VAC or 180-256VAC.
All my (US) RL02 drives have stickers on the back saying "120V, 60Hz",
but I think the voltage is just the factor configuration and the "Hz" is
just an anachronism.
In my RL01/02 books the presence of a 50Hz option isn't even mentioned,
though the tables specify that it's designed for 60Hz power.
If folks know otherwise, they're welcome to correct me!
John G. Zabolitzky
>>There is a picture of the '40 on the website if you want to have a look
>>see...
>So what is above the CPU in the taller picture?
It looks like a paper-tape reader to me, but it may also be a punch -
I can't tell from the tiny little picture.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I have two problems and 2 Vic20s.
1. My uncle had a vic20 ALONG time ago wich I just recently found. When I pluged it in and turned it on "Let there be light!" A big blue flash appeared and I think the fuse blew. Is there any paticurlar fuses that it uses?
2. My other Vic20 works "ok" But when I load a cart it does not start up right away. How do
I load a cart? I know LOAD "*",8,1 is for disks. But whats for carts?
Thanks..
Sorry if this posts twice for some reason I cant post with my other email address.
Jester
MOVing back into the season of hiding out in the 'Garage' to work on
winter projects, the Garage seems a bit more space constrained than makes
for a comfortable working area, so a bit of redistribution may be in
order. To that end:
Available: (2) PDP-11/40 CPUs. When I acquired them the intent was for
one unit to be restored with the other as a spare/backup/parts unit. Both
are currently in standard six foot tall DEC corporate racks, although only
one of the racks is offered in this deal.
Functional condition of both units is unknown. I did some work on the
primary CPU a couple of years ago and it seemed (at the time) to be
reasonably coherent, but since it has set idle for a year or so, no
promises.
Both are reasonably outfitted, lots of backplane space and cards. And no,
I don't recall what all is there right off hand. For someone SERIOUSLY
interested in obtaining the units I will take a look.
They really should go as a pair, but under the proper circumstances I
could be convinced otherwise...
How much? Well... that one is open for discussion... Trades are always
interesting, for ideas check the 'Most Wanted' list on the 'Garage'
website. For those offering green? I'm listening...
Getting them from here to there? That's up to you... I'll help extract
them from the Garage, but from that point 'yer on yer own...' B^}
There is a picture of the '40 on the website if you want to have a look
see...
Let the games begin!
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives
>> Now I've never used a RL02 drive on 50Hz power, but I'm 99% certain that
>> the motor speed in a RL02 is determined by a servo loop, and thus
>> not locked to a multiple of the AC frequency.
>>
>> I think the fan in a 50Hz RL02 will run a bit slower, but I don't think
>> this will hurt anything.
>Motor speed is controled by line mains freq. I think the 50hz unit has
>a differnt spindle size. I havent looked under one in 15 years.
What you say certainly describes the RK05, lots of 8" floppy drives
with AC-drive motors and belts, and many other 14" disk drives,
but I'm now 99.44% certain that there's a servo loop for motor speed
regulation in a RL02 and that it's not tied to having a mathematical
relationship of pulley sizes or the AC line frequency.
In fact, my "RL01/RL02 Disk Drive Maintenance Course" textbook says:
The circuits controlling the drive motor in line are
located on two modules. The drive logic module
decodes the speed of the rotating spindle and sends
the signals to the AC servo module which controls
the drive motor's duty cycle.
The disk speed control portion of the DLM monitors
the sector pulse that is created from the reluctance
pick-up and shaped by the circults on page DL6. This
shaped sector pulse, called sector detect, and the
clock from the interface logic are used by the
counting logic to determine how much time is elapsing
between sector pulses. The result is a
signal called Control Speed-up, which is sensed by
the AC servo module. When active, it increases the
duty cycle of the drive motor from 20% to 60%,
speeding up the cartridge. If the disk is within
the speed limits., Control Speed-up is negated, allowing
the drive motor to run at a 20% duty cycle.
This indicates that the master clock setting the drive rotation rate
comes from the interface board in the Q-bus/Unibus/Omnibus (I believe
this is in turn derived from a crystal oscillator), and that
it is not directly tied to the AC line frequency. Indeed, if you
put a not-RL01 or not-RL02 pack in a RL drive and try to spin it up,
the fact that the sector gaps aren't present in the same number means
that it'll spin up to a different speed than if you have a real RL pack
in the drive.
There may be a separate "50Hz" RL drive variant, but I've not seen any
indication of its existence here in North America, in parts lists,
user's manauls, or in maintenance guides. I'm sure some of our
more international members will have better information than I do.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Jay wrote:
> Is there something wrong with the list?
>
> A) It's unusually quiet
> B) I've recently seen people talking about messages I'm fairly certain I
> never saw
> C) I suspect one or two of my messages never went out
>
> Just testing.....
Quiet? I wouldn't say that. This week it's been at sixty or seventy messages
per diem, about twice what it was last week. Not up to the hundred or more that
we sometimes observe, thankfully...
Philip.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept
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Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar,
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**********************************************************************
Hi all,
does anyone collect IBM manuals from the mainframe line, like
system /360, or even older ones, like 1140, 1401, 7090, and earlier ?
I would be particularly interested in any hardware docs.
Thanks and regards
John G. Zabolitzky
Well I think the bids on PDP 8s will finally tone down on EBay. The guy that
paid $1300 for the case needed it because he had CPU boards. He bid $300 on
my boards and placed ANOTHER 7 bids in the last 15 miniutes to make sure he
would not get snipered under $1000 for them. It looks like he really wants
to run a PDP 8/e. But... I see this morning someone put up a PDP 8e doc set
on EBay so I wonder how many $100s he will pay for that.
Now that he has what he wanted it looks like the 8 stuff will sell for the
usual $500 or less on EBay.
P.S. If someone put up a Desktop Honeywell 716 on EBay I would probably do
the same thing.
john
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: collectors vs. enthusiasts
>At 05:14 PM 99/10/13 -0600, you wrote:
>>I think we are seeing some of the same thing in computers,
>>and eBay (and other auction sites) make it easy for them.
>>Hopefully this is just a passing fad. If enough of these
>>"investors" get burned they may not return.
>
>For what it's worth, I'm also an enthusiast/collector of old radios from
>the 1920s and 30s, and eBay has caused the same thing to happen with prices
>in that realm. Old radios and speakers are changing hands at values far
>above what they're actually "worth", based on the number still in
>existence, the technologies used, etc.
>
>This cost craziness has even spilled over into the local secondhand/antique
>market, where radios that used to be fairly priced at say $100 are now
>price tagged at say $400-$500.
>
>I think that speculation on eBay has caused prices to rise artifically, to
>the detriment of those who seek to acquire for love of the technology and
>the fun of getting old radios (or old computers) working again. These
>things are significant parts of history that will be lost unless some folks
>care enough to preserve them.
>
>Kevin
>
>
>---
>Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
>mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
>
>One thing, the drive never really seems to *look* for the BOT marker. I
>mean, pressing load causes the drive to immediately rewind a good 8"-1' of
>tape and then stops there. Nothing else.
It's possible that the optical sensors in the tape path are out of
adjustment or simply just dusty. Most tape drives have at least
two sensors, one for the BOT and one for the EOT marker, and some have
a third sensor for "tape present in tape path". If these are giving
nonsensical combinations, (for example, both BOT and EOT at the same time)
the machine is likely to do weird things or fail its self-test.
In some cases, bright light (i.e. direct sunlight) shining into the
tape drive will temporarily screw up these sensors, leading to the classic
stories of "tape drive works in the morning but not in the afternoon"!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Please respond to Tim directly at <astrl3(a)uaa.alaska.edu> if you can help...
>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:18:45 -0800
>From: Tim Long <astrl3(a)UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
>Subject: Acoustic modems?
>
>Hi! I am interested in purchasing an acoustic modem, but I have not been
>able to find one anywhere. First, are there any acoustic modems that are
>compatible with modern IBM-clone PCs? Where could I find one? I have
>checked most of the local used computer stores, but all I have gotten have
>been weird facial expressions from the proprietors, usually followed by,
>"No, we haven't had those in YEARS!" Any information you could give me
>would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Long
>astrl3(a)uaa.alaska.edu
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Is there something wrong with the list?
A) It's unusually quiet
B) I've recently seen people talking about messages I'm fairly certain I
never saw
C) I suspect one or two of my messages never went out
Just testing.....
Jay West
Hello,
The fellow who wrote me the following e-mail saw that I
was looking for Victor calculators on my web site and
wrote me to say he has a Victor PC available. If you have
any interest in this PC, please contact Scott directly
at the e-mail address in his message. In another message
he wrote that the computer does work, and that he would
hate to just throw it in the trash. Hopefully one of you
will find a home for this machine!
Regards,
Alex Knight
Calculator History & Technology Museum Web Page
http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm
forwarded message:
From: "Humerickhouse, Scott A" <Scott_Humerickhouse(a)Conseco.com>
>Subject: Victor Computer
>
>Hello,
>I have a Victor 8086 PC that is in very good working condition (I have all
>of the original manuals too). Victor only made computers for a short period
>of time, so I am not sure how much this machine is worth, but it is of no
>use to me anymore. If you would be interested in this PC, please email me
>back.
>
>Thanks,
>Scott
Achtung! Ein heads-up:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 14 Oct 1999 12:46:52 GMT
From: Christoph Gartmann <gartmann(a)immunbio.mpg.de>
To: Info-PDP11(a)transarc.com
Subject: PDP-11 to give away
Hello,
we have an old PDP-11 here in Freiburg, Germany that we will dump unless
someone is interested to pick it up. Its hard disk is dead that is why it
has to go.
Regards,
Christoph Gartmann
-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452 |
| Immunbiologie |
| Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann(a)immunbio.mpg.de |
| D-79011 Freiburg, FRG |
+------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html -----------+
----------
To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to
info-pdp11-request(a)village.org, with the first line of the message
body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes).
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: Desperate...Help...HP 9-track drive...
>> One of the things I like the least about my collection of Olde
>> Iron, is the amount of time I seem to have to spend
>> diagnosing/repairing vs. enjoying the system. I am a BSEE, and have
>> spent a good deal of my career fixing broken things, and I've paid
>> some dues as a programmer and systems analyst, too... but it's
>> seldom I turn on a system that it doesn't woof it's cookies and go
>> casters up on me.
That's the best part! I get bored quickly with old systems that run. Most of
the minis I get out of plants "operational" are far from operational. I
never board swap so that keeps things interesting. They usually take a few
days to a few weeks to fully restore. Most of them come with poor
software... I spend my days designing hardware/firmware and some software
for new projects so I don't find it too interesting writing Fortran programs
on a teletype.
The Honeywell 316 series *were* my favorite computers because they break
down so often. At one time I had three of them taking turns crapping out.
I think I might be able to enjoy writing some code on the PDP 8/s. For
anyone interested I am setting up a small communications server with a Nova,
the 8/s, and a PDP 11/05 so folks on the internet can telnet into them
(Nova - Basic, 8/s - whatever looks the coolest, PDP 11/05 - RT11 with
MBASIC, maybe a 11/34). Hopefully some folks will appricate logging into the
systems and playing with them.
john
>
>Err, isn't that part of the fun of running old computers. If you want a
>machine that powers up first time, you probably don't want to be running
>some strange 1970's box :-).
>
>Seriously, though, most of my machines are pretty relaible. Yes, I do get
>failures. And I know that sometimes when I turn them on, it's not going
>to work. That's why I have a pile of service manuals, schematics, tools,
>test gear, etc. But 95%+ of the time, things work.
>
>One thing is, I do do a bit of PM. Not in the field service sense of
>changing the filters once a month. But in the sense of checking PSU
>voltages, fan operation, cleaning connectors, etc from time to time. I
>generally completely strip any machine that I get and check for problems
>(power connections hanging on 1 or 2 strands are common, and cause all
>sorts of problems). Then every so often I stick a voltmeter on the PSU
>outputs, just to check.
>
>I don't get that many failures. Oh, the odd chip fails, the odd dry joint
>opens (more often in new stuff, actually). But not that often.
>
>-tony
>
Hi Folks,
You might remember me, I've been maintaining the PDP-11 freeware
archives at ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/
for the past decade, and I posted a few months ago saying that I was
beta-testing some CD copies of the archives.
Well, the beta-testing is done, I've run off the first batch
of "production" RT-11 CD-R's, and they're now available for sale. I'm hooked
up as a "zShop" through Amazon.com, and you can order the RT-11 CD through
this link:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y03Y5462567Y2843157/002…
For a link that's a little easier to remember, and which is hooked to
the above page, try this:
http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html
I think the Amazon.com "zShop" concept is really pretty nifty, and if
you order through there with your credit card shipment is almost immediate.
If you prefer to order directly from me, that's also possible; email
me at "shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com" with your name and shipping address,
and I'll hold a copy until your payment ($15.00+$1.50 shipping for
US addresses, or $4.50 for airmail delivery to international addresses)
arrives. At this moment, the only way to pay with credit card is
through Amazon.com.
At the moment, there are 30 CD's ready to ship; if these quickly sell
out, I can run off additional copies as soon as this weekend.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
7328 Bradley Blvd WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
Bethesda MD USA 20817 Voice: 301-767-5917
Fax: 301-767-5927
On Oct 13, 11:21, Don Maslin wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > Yes, some people did call this QD, but
> > it isn't a different density at all -- the misnomer comes from people
who
> > don't understand what the words mean. Your numbers for 180K, 360K,
etc,
>
> Pete, since the term QD or Quad Density dates back to at least the North
> Star Horizon, I would submit that it was not people who didn't
> understand but rather who chose to ignore the real meaning and to use
> the term as it was descriptive of the expanded disk capacity.
I remember the use, but it's still a misnomer, and I'm not altogether
convinced. Most non-N* people didn't call those disks QD, as far as I
remember.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
I was wondering if anyone else collects IBM Manuals.
Since the early IBM XT's I have always been impressed
with the excellent manuals that IBM produced for their
personal computer series computers, and presently have about
20 manuals in my collection..
I have many of these manuals in my family room bookcase
on display..
Excellent Binders in a standard Boxed/Sleeve cover..
Always looking for a DOS's that I don't already have..
I currently have in my collection.
DOS's 2.00, 2.02, 2.10, 3.00, 3.20, 3.30 and 4.00 ..
And even the IBM 3270 Emulator software..
In the early 1980's seem's everyone started making their
manuals in the IBM format binders with Boxed Sleeves..
I also have a nice set of 4 manuals for the Packard Bell XT,
looks like an IBM manual clone and very nicely done..
Most manuals after this era were just cheap paper bound..
Seems any manuals are just history now, with the advent of the
CDROM...
Phil..
Hi all,
Frustration! I just got around to trying to install the OS tapes for my
HP3K...and the drive doesn't want to load anymore. I had originally tested
it after assembling the HP-IB interface boards with a blank tape, and it
loaded and found BOT just fine. Now that I finally get the OS tapes, it's
stopped working...
It's an HP 7974 with the hp-ib interface. I string the tape and push load,
the tension arms engage, it spins, then the lcd reads "*F5" (or "*FS" -
it's an lcd...) and eventually returns to "OK". But of course the tape's
not loaded, and I have to manually push reset to get it to attempt loading
again. Anyone have any ideas?
The Big Question: Does anyone have any docs/printsets for this machine?
I'd like to know more about the self-diagnostic functions and dip switch
settings on the controller board.
Cheers,
Aaron
It's crazy. I can't believe what they are paying on EBay for less than
*incomplete* systems. I could see $1400 with drives, running, tested,
manuals, etc... but a shell??????
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: pdp8/f
>At 10:50 PM 10/12/99 -0400, it was written wrote:
>>That 8/e chasis went for $1300 this morning!
>
>Youch! Better go hide mine. I sit corrected. Maybe the 8/f is worth what
>they want for it in ebay dollars.
>--Chuck
>
>
>
In a message dated 10/13/99 11:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca writes:
> There's one in Paul Pierce's collection in Portland Oregon.
> No, he won't part with it, I've already asked!!
>
I learned Fortran on that very machine in Paul Pierce's collection. When
Clatsop Community College surplused it out in 1989 (after having it nearly 20
years) he outbid me in the sealed bid sale.
It is going to be hard to find a 1130. You might try remote, poor community
colleges. It was really designed as an engineering machine and pushed into
business applications.
Good luck.
Paxton
At 00:05 14-10-1999 -0700, you wrote:
>One thing, the drive never really seems to *look* for the BOT marker. I
>mean, pressing load causes the drive to immediately rewind a good 8"-1' of
>tape and then stops there. Nothing else.
Odd...
Without being there, my next guess would be to unseat/reseat all the
connectors, including circuit boards in edge connectors, and to press down
on all chips that are not in high-rel (machined pin or 'Augat' style)
sockets. I had odd problems with a Kennedy drive once that mysteriously
vanished after I did that.
>One thing I was wondering about is the small prism located on the media
>side just above the BOT/EOT sensors...what's it's function? There doesn't
>appear to be anything to it besides a small prism fixed into a metal
>block.
That may not be a prism. As I recall, HP used some sort of mineral blade
as a tape cleaner. I'm thinking that's what you may be looking at.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our
own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
I wrote:
> How is it possible that DD media could be of such
> poor quality that it can't (reliably?) do 96 TPI,
> while still being just fine at 48 TPI?
To which Allison replied:
] ???? Nonsense question, no context. I have no difficulty
] nor is there any reason to expect difficulty with 96tpi DD
] ops. I have expereinced using formerly formatted media of
] 96 or 48TPI that REQUIRED bulk erasure to be usable. I believe
] that intertrack noise due to differnt track widths are why.
] I regurally use PC360k, Vt180, RX50 and Visual1050 media and they
] are 48 TS, 48 SS, 96ss, 96ss/TS all running at DD data rates.
...much more, deleted...
Oh yeah, you can't read my mind. Guess I better include some
context.
I'm thinking of the 5.25" DS/DD floppy disks commonly used
in PC's and formatted to hold 360K at 48TPI. I was recently
discussing with someone whether or not they could be used as
RX50's, which as you know have 96 tracks per inch, with each
track having the same number of bits as in the PC 360K DS/DD
format. Both are supposed to be 300 Oerstedts. But I think
I remember hearing complaints that the not-so-high-quality
DS/DD 360K floppy disks would not work okay with the higher
number of tracks per inch. And I am sure I read something
about the importance of these diskettes being "well honed"
to be used as RX50's, with the assertion that not all 360K
DS/DD disks are. (But "well honed" was left undefined, and
I'd love to know what exactly was meant, as well as what
physical property of those not-so-high-quality diskettes
was causing them to fail.)
Now I'm not talking about writing more on any one track. It
might still be just exactly the same as the PC DS/DD format.
And coercivity doesn't come into the picture, because we are
talking about floppy drives that are made to work with 300
Oerstedt media, which those DS/DD disks are.
I'm also not thinking of taking a diskette written by one drive
and trying to read it in another. That can cause problems
because 48TPI tracks might be twice as wide as those written
in a 96TPI drive. Simple enough; no confusion.
The point I'm after is about the limitation on how many
tracks that disk can hold - does that limitation come from
something about the diskette itself, or is it a property
of the disk drive in which it is used? My thinking is that
the media can handle >3000 magnetic transitions (bits) per
inch, because it does that along each track. So that can't
be the limiting factor that prevents you from fitting 96
tracks into one inch. I'm not concerned with the drive in
which it is written; I only care about what the media could
hold if I had a precise enough disk drive.
Assuming that the magnetic granules in the oxide are not
systematically shaped in any odd way, (not generally longer
than they are wide, or wider than long), then the media
itself should in principle be able to handle 3000 tracks
per inch - just as many transitions moving outward from
center as moving along a track. If the diskette itself
was so crappy that it couldn't handle 96 magnetic
transitions radially, then it should have no hope of being
able to handle 3000/inch when writing a track, so it would
also have no hope of being usable in the PC 360K 48TPI format.
Conversely, if it could handle the 3000 transitions per inch
of the PC 360K DS/DD format, then the media itself is already
*much* better than necessary to handle 96TPI.
So the limitation is in the drive, and not the diskette;
and any old never-written (or properly bulk-erased)
"PC 360K" diskette should be perfectly happy as an RX50.
It just occurred to me that the recorded track must be
more or less like a UPC bar code - the width of the track
is very much greater than the length of a bit in the track;
maybe more than 200 times greater. So say the track was a
1 meter wide sidewalk, the bits would each be 1m wide, but
only 5mm long. So even a tiny twist in the read head would
gum it up real good - it should be much more sensitive to
this than to alignment. Move 1cm to the left, and you are
still 99% on the sidewalk - no problem. But twist just one
degree, and when your left side is at one bit, your right
side is three bits ahead or behind - big trouble. Well,
maybe the forces acting on the head are less likely to
twist it than to shift it.
Bill.
I forgot to mention that I also have a Dell docking bar for older Dell
notebooks that is a combination token ring adapter/scsi adapter. Model
number is TR-APR. If anyone is running a token ring network and needs a
docking bar...this is your lucky day. I've tested the SCSI adapter and it
works fine with an external CD drive. I don't have token ring set up
anywhere to test it, sorry.
If possible, I'd like whomever takes it to actually have a Dell laptop,
scsi peripherals, and ideally use it with a token ring network...not just
take it because it's such a bargain...
Cheers,
Aaron
At 22:32 13-10-1999 -0700, you wrote:
<snip>
>I tried removing the interface cable and no-go. I'm not sure if you
>remember, but when we dragged the beastie up to my house and tried to load
>a tape, it took a couple of tries before it worked...ideas?
Possibility: The emitter portion of the BOT/EOT sensor may have failed. I
don't recall what 'F5' on the display means, but I'm pretty sure it's an
error code.
I seem to recall that the sensor on that drive used an infrared LED. There
are two ways you can check if it's actually emitting (besides checking the
voltage across it, of course).
One is to look at it through almost any video camera/camcorder or digital
camera. Such units are sensitive to IR emissions, and will show such as a
bright white light in a monochrome viewfinder (I have no clue what it would
look like with a color viewfinder).
Second option is to pick up one of those little cards at Radio Shack that
glows when exposed to IR emissions. It's billed as being a tester for TV
remotes and such, but hey, IR is IR no matter how you look at it.
Just my $.02 worth. Hi, John. I'm doing digital basics this quarter, and I
think I've survived Boolean and Karnaugh Maps (whew!).
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our
own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Many schools used the IBM 1130 here in Ontario, Canada. I scrapped my IBM
1130 a few years ago as it was taking up too much room. :-(.
Most schools shared one unit.
The standard config in schools was:
IBM 1130
IBM card sorter (really old)
IBM manual card punch
2 automatic card punches (I think 8010s)
1 high speed L shaped card reader
1 band printer
about 40 disk packs
all original schematics and documentation
When I got mine in 1986 it still used light bulbs for the front panel.
Call the Public School Boards in Ontario and inquire about them. They may
still have docs kicking around and possibly there is one in storage
somewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Where and Where to get an IBM 1130
>At , Randy M.Kaplan wrote:
>>1. I have noticed in reading the list that individuals will come upon
>>various machines in various places that are being retired. I also recently
>>purchased a Sun IPC from ebay. When I went to pick it up, the fellow had a
>>yard full of stuff he had apparently scarfed up from various companies.
How
>>does one find out about these sources? Who do you contact?
>
>Well a couple of things, if you start collecting old computers many sources
>will find _you_. Unfortunately many of those sources will want you to take
>75 80386SX computers off their hands not IBM 1130s.
>
>Look up scrap metal recycling in your yellow pages. These guys are sort of
>the "sharks" of computer collecting, they devour things indiscriminately
>but you can be a "trigger fish" and teach them the value of some machines.
>A good relationship with a top tier scrapper is a really good thing to
have.
>
>The scrappers watch the new paper for liquidation bids. Places that are
>scrapping out entire buildings and such. Older and larger computers are
>sometimes found in these liquidations because the buildings are abandoned
>and the "big iron" in the machine room is just left there. (I "found" 1/2
>of a 370 that way once in a building that was for lease.)
>
>>2. I was wondering if anyone had any notion of where I might look for an
IBM
>>1130 or is this a totally ridiculous pursuit. When I started out, this was
>>the first machine I wrote Fortran programs for.
>
>The 1130 is not an easy machine to find. You will have several sources
>(ranked from most likely to least likely):
> 1) Another collector who can't afford the space any more
> and wants to keep the machine in the hands of a caretaker.
> 2) Some place that had to keep software for it running and
> kept one around as a "gold standard."
> 3) A scrapper who hasn't had the heart to crush it yet.
> 4) IBM (who might have one in a warehouse somewhere for
> some reason)
>
>Its certainly a worthwhile pursuit.
>
>--Chuck
>
>
Guys:
This is one of a very small number of SCSI bridge
controllers that can handle 24Mhz ESDI drives.
Does anyone have the docs for this? I need to know
at least what the DIP switches do; I've figured
out the addressing part, but I need to know if the
sectoring can be adjusted, if it needs hard or
soft sectoring, if the SCSI parity can be set, etc.
Any info would be seriously appreciated.
Jeff
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
untested as I never have had a MASSBUS unit.
Just email daniel(a)internet.look.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: Floppy disks again
>On Oct 13, 8:34, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
>
>> I know when NS* offered
>> the DD controller one option was 96tpi twosided drives and it was called
>> quad density as it was 800k and the same controller single density on
>> a 35track single sided (the introductory format) was a whopping 90k!
>
>I remember *them* well. And I remember the awe at getting Apple DOS 3.3
>140K on the same drive (well, same SS 35 tracks, anyway).
>
>--
>
>Pete Peter Turnbull
> Dept. of Computer Science
> University of York
>
On Oct 13, 8:34, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
> I know when NS* offered
> the DD controller one option was 96tpi twosided drives and it was called
> quad density as it was 800k and the same controller single density on
> a 35track single sided (the introductory format) was a whopping 90k!
I remember *them* well. And I remember the awe at getting Apple DOS 3.3
140K on the same drive (well, same SS 35 tracks, anyway).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: collectors vs. enthusiasts
>I wrote:
>> <rant>
>> That's because eBay is where "collectors" hang out. Not people like
>> us, for whom collector is an insufficient/inaccurate term.
>
>"George Currie" <g(a)kurico.com>
>> Whereas I agree that there is a differentiation between the
>> "collector" and the "enthusiast", I must take umbrage to the ,again,
>> generalization of the person who pays "too much" on ebay
>> automatically being "collector assholes, just because he had deep
>> pockets".
>
>I don't believe I said anything of the sort. I said that "collectors"
>hang out on eBay, but I never said that enthusiasts don't.
>
>> Are you implying that one must be of modest means to be an
>> "enthusiast".
>
>No, I didn't. I've seen enthusiasts pay enormous amounts of money
>for certain items. I've done it myself. What I object to is having
>to do it because some non-enthusiast asshole has more dollars than
>sense. More about this later.
My friend... That is what auctions are all about.. and it's not limited to
computers.
When I was 17 I was at the Interhauler Yauht backruptsy auction. They had an
IBM mainframe and a mini. As the mini was old I was hoping to pick it up for
$100 (I was a student). I placed a bid of $50. when all of a sudden the
owner from "Kitchens Construction" thinks the machine can be used and placed
a bid of $500! I did not have $500 on me.... he was arrogant about the win
of his auction... smiled at me and left the room. Little did he know the
next auction was for the DISKPACKS for *his* computer. I bought them for
$60. I went out to him RIGHT after he won the auction and asked him if he
won the bid on the computer. He smurked at me and said "Of Course". I told
him (and I can remember my exact words): "Good, I just bought all the
software for YOUR computer so I guess you WON'T be using it".
His face dropped! He looked down and walked over to the auctioneer to
complain. When he couldn't get his way he came over to me and asked me what
I was going to do with them. I told him I had a PDP 11 and was going to
FORMAT the platters and use them on my system. I knew who he was, I let him
stu all night and called him the next day. He bought the diskpacks without
the case for $750!
>
>> If you saw a rare whatnot that you had always loved
>> and wanted to tinker with, and had the financial means to acquire
>> it, would you let it go to the scrap because you thought the asking
>> price was too high?
>
>No. But I still might complain about the price.
>
>> Would you let it go to a "collector asshole"
>> because you thought the asking price was too high?
>
>Yes, if the "asking price" was "too high". "Too high" is a
>subjective measure. I never buy ANYTHING that I think is priced
>"too high". Of course, tommorow's value of "too high" may be
>different from today's.
>
>> Now of course, there are people who would purchase something
>> simply for the "coolness" of having it.
>
>Those are the people that buy perfectly good, working core memory
>planes, and destroy them to make wall hangings. Those are the
>people for whom I believe there should be a special place reserved
>in hell. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.
>
>> I fully understand the frustration, but venting it by making
>> generalizations of those who happen to be better financially
>> equipped than you, or are just willing to pay more for something
>> than you, is just immature.
>
>If complaining about life's injustices is immature, then I'm
>immature. But then, so's most everyone else I know.
>
>In fact, aren't you complaining about me based on some generalization
>you've made regarding me? Sounds immature to me. :-)
>
>> Call the guy who purchased an Altair for $2K an
>> asshole/loser collector/not worthy,
>
>Depends on why he purchased it. Maybe he is, maybe not. But I've
>had personal experiences with people who I *KNOW* were just
>"collectors" and had no interest in machines other than because
>they are "collectable". I.e., they had no experience with the
>particular machine, and no real interest in learning about it.
>If you don't think those people are assholes, fine. I do.
>
>Others suggested distinguishing between people who view collecting
>as an "investment", vs. people who collect for completeness. I
>don't see that as being nearly as useful a distinction, because
>there are two kinds of people who collect for completeness. Using
>the Atari 8-bit example:
>
>1) People who want every last Atari model and peripheral because
> they actually like and care about Ataris. That still maps to
> my "enthusiast" category.
>
>2) People who want every last Atari model and peripheral because they
> happen to think they are collectable, even though they have no real
> personal interest in Atari stuff. And they don't really care
> whether the machine is in working order, or about keeping it that
> way if it is. They may or may not think it is an investment. Yes,
> I've met people like that. And that's who I was referring to as a
> "collector". Yes, I consider those people to be assholes. That's
> my opinion, and I'm not trying to force it on anyone else.
>
>Obviously I should be more precise in my terminology: I divide people
>buying old computers into "enthusiasts" (who might be collectors) and
>"non-enthusiast collectors" (who may or may not be "investors"). The
>fact that some collectors are also enthusiasts does not make me like the
>"non-enthusiast collectors".
>
>Eric
>