- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Anyone have pointers to good Z-80 Assembly language programming >resources on the net? Any of the CP/M archives will be filled with more Z-80 and 8080 assembly source than you'll know what to do with. For starters, try http://oak.oakland.edu/pub/cpm/ >What books would you recommend for advanced programming topics? If I remember correctly, Rodney Zaks had a book titled "Programming the Z-80" in his lineup. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

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I EBay snipered these PDP extenders last night. Did anyone else see them?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- daniel <daniel(a)internet.look.ca> wrote: > I got two quad (looks to be originals for the 11) PDP extender cards for > $21.50! I had to get up at 1 in the morning to nail it. If the spacing is > the same on either side of the middle "slot" then I guess I just have to cut > them down the middle for the PDP 8? Sorry "flipchip". You don't need to cut them... just pull four cards and extend all of them together. At these speeds, the extra length isn't going to kill you. Quad is quad. They can also be used for OMNIBUS cards as well as Qbus/UNIBUS cards. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 1 month

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

While trying to figure out how to reach more PDP-11 users with my freeware archives (immodest plug: See http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html for information about the PDP-11 freeware CD's and FTP sites with PDP-11 freeware) it occured to me that I've only been using two methods of announcing availability: this (Classiccmp) mailing list and Usenet newsgroups specific to PDP-11's. It's obvious that these methods of reaching classic computer users hit only a small fraction of active PDP-11 users. There's what, maybe a couple of dozen frequent participants in this mailing list, and the number of regular posters on vmsnet.pdp-11 can be counted on two hands. Is there a better way of reaching a wider audience of classic computer users? In particular, folks who don't read technical Usenet discussion groups and who haven't happened upon this specific mailing list. Or, even in this "connected" world that we live in, is there no better way of reaching what I know is a very broad base of classic computer users out there? One idea that has crossed my mind, but I don't know if there's any way to pull it off: There are obviously lots of "collectors" on E-bay who have little connection with our reality of using classic computers. Is there no way at all of reaching these folks? I don't mean preaching to them, but at least tying them together into a broader knowledge base than the wheeling and dealing on E-bay. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

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WANTED: IBM parts.

by Henk.J.Stegeman＠is.shell.com

Hi, I still believe in miracles... I am looking for a IBM MST-1 card with P/N 5558222. This card was used by IBM Customer Engineer in an IBM System/3 model 15 (IBM 5415). This card was only available at IBM CE Branch Offices and was needed to diagnose any problems in the so-called 'DA 3277/3284 Attachment' and 'LDA (Local Display Attachment)' in the S/3 model 15. Together with the card came a CE Switchbox P/N 5558132 and overlay P/N 5558224. Anyone who might be able to perform a small miracle... ? Thanks. Henk Stegeman IBM Collector.

26 years, 1 month

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Programming the Z-80

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Anyone have pointers to good Z-80 Assembly language programming resources on the net? What books would you recommend for advanced programming topics? TIA, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 1 month

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TImex SInclair 1000 Manual

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm not surprised. The Sinclairs were very plentiful back in the days when they were of interest. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Glenatacme(a)aol.com <Glenatacme(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 9:46 PM Subject: Re: TImex SInclair 1000 Manual >In a message dated 10/17/1999 12:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >edick(a)idcomm.com writes: > >> While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair >1000 >> manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this >> something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? > >Actually this is a very common and abundant item. A "perfect" one will >typically fetch less than US$10 on Ebay. > >Glen Goodwin >0/0

26 years, 1 month

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EBaying; howling after an auction

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've seen this, too. On one particular item that I wanted, >in viewing the "View Sellers Other Auctions", I noticed that >he had a number of them to sell. Spread out over a few days. >I would bid on one and someone would outbid me. I'd bid on >another and someone would outbid me. I finally just said forget >it, this is getting ridiculous. :-) Certainly, E-bay does provides tools for many "commodity" type items to compare one sale with past ones, so you know what a reasonable bid is. There are evidently folks who don't know how to use this, and it doesn't really bother me, I just feel kind-of-sorry for them. Other E-bay phenomena: 1. Items (like HP C3010 2 Gbyte SCSI drives) that have been flooding the surplus market. These are available from liquidators like www.hitechcafe.com and www.compgeeks.com for $30-$35-$40, but I've seen them bid up into the $50-$60 range on E-bay very regularly. Same thing often happens for surplus PC-clone mainboards. 2. What really amazes me is when a seller makes a reserve price auction, very plainly states the reserve price in the item description, and there are literally dozens of bids made *below* the stated reserve price. What the ???. Either the bidders think this is entirely a "bidding game", where the objective is to outbid the other guy with no real intention to buy, or they don't read the description at all, or they haven't a clue period. Tim.

26 years, 1 month

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EBaying; howling after an auction

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>>Either bid at the end, and I mean well within the last minute if not the >>>last 10 seconds or so, or bid the full amount you are willing to pay for >>>the item. >> >> If you're bidding on something that you really want, be prepared to be awake >>and in front of your machine when the auction ends. Everyone learns this >>after >>a while. >Or just bid your full amount to start with. Lots of people use eBay like a >email store and just place an order, with a bid that delivers 90% of the >time. I've done that - usually for some oddball item that nobody else would likely want, anyway. I've been following the E-bay auctions for SCSI drives closely in the past month or two, and what's *really* amazing is that sometimes there'll be 4 identical items, all from the same seller, all closing within minutes of each other, and in one auction the drive is bid up to $180.00 and in an another auctions the cost settles around $60-$70. Someone here said that E-bay is perhaps one of the harshest marketplaces around, implying (I think) that it's pure open competition with commonly available knowledge, but this isn't always the case: some of the bidders haven't a clue as to what's going on, and instead of treating the auction as what it is - a business transaction - they get caught up in the frenzy of bidding. (It takes at least *two* such bidders to bid the price up to ridiculous heights.) I personally don't understand "sniping" at all - it isn't necessary. Set your maximum bid what you're willing to pay. If someone else outbids you, you didn't "lose" - "losing" is when you pay more than you're willing, not when someone outbids you! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

5
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TImex SInclair 1000 Manual

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/17/1999 12:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick(a)idcomm.com writes: > While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 > manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this > something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? Actually this is a very common and abundant item. A "perfect" one will typically fetch less than US$10 on Ebay. Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 1 month

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 11:28 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> >> Yes, it is. It was called the 11/05 in 72 but later docs called it the >> 11/10. > >Hmm... I've seen 5.25" boxes with both 11/05 and 11/10 nameplates on the >front (no, not on the same machine :-)). I think the only 10.5" one I saw >was an 11/10, but I'd happilly believe in the existance of a 10.5" 11/05 Actually I have one... It says 11/05 on a 10 1/2" box (one of the first knocked out). I will be putting pictures of it up on my website with the 8/s, honeywell, 34,45,73,accuray,etc... > >I tend to regard the 11/05 and 11/10 as the same machine. Same boards, >same boxes, etc. Ditto for the 11/35 and 11/40. Even DEC got fed up with >the dual numbering scheme later on (the 11/39 was going to be the >end-user version of the 11/34, and some early manuals mention it. AFAIK >it never existed. Ditto for the 11/09). > > >> >> Anyway, do you have an 11/05 running and do you have any PDP 8s you collect? > >I've got a working 5.25" 11/05 here. And another one that's much hacked. > >Got a couple of Omnibus 8's.... > >> I am trying to find blank backplanes for the old flipchip modules (r series) > >What's special about them? Don't R series fit any DEC connector blocks? >You said you want them blank, so can't you unwrap some other backplane? > No, I was hoping for one with the usual power strips already attached. I have enough r-series spares to design the intel 4004 with flip chips. >-tony >

26 years, 1 month

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

Yes, it is. It was called the 11/05 in 72 but later docs called it the 11/10. Anyway, do you have an 11/05 running and do you have any PDP 8s you collect? I am trying to find blank backplanes for the old flipchip modules (r series) john -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 11:08 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> You don't have all the prints then. I have prints outlineing your two +: >> >> >> Module Utilization: >> >> Slot 9: M930 /Stack >> Slot 8: G231 >> Slot 7: G110 >> Slot 6: G231 >> Slot 5: G110 >> Slot 4: M930 / Stack >> Slot 3: M7261 >> Slot 2: M7260 >> Slot 1: Bf11 / M9970 / Km11A / KM11B >> >> (16k) > >Are you sure that's not the backplane for the 10.5" box (BA11-K)? That >one does have the CPU on the right (and Unibus out on slot 9 on the >left). > >-tony >

26 years, 1 month

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 9:01 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> >There are at least 3 different backplanes, but the 11/05 and 11/10 can >> >use any of them. The 11/05 and 11/10 are really the same machine -- the >> >differences seem to be what was included when the machine was originally >> >shipped. >> > >> >The first backplane goes in the 5.25" box. The CPU cards go at the bottom >> >(in slots 8 and 9). >> >> No, CPU goes in slots 2&3, the maintenance board goes in slot 1. > >I was absolutely certain the CPU went in slots 8 and 9 in the 5.25" box, >so I've got the printset out. I was right about the CPU, but wrong about >Unibus out (which comes from slot 2 or 3 depending on the version, >because as you said, the KM11 goes in slot 1 _or 2_) . Here's the 'module >utilization' : > >8K version >Slot 1 A-B : not used, C-F : SPC >Slot 2 A : KM11, B : KM11, C-F : SPC >Slot 3 A-B : Unibus Out (or M930 terminator), C-F : SPC >Slot 4 A-B : not used, C-F : SPC >Slot 5 A-B : M930 (terminator) C-F : H213 or H214 core stack >Slot 6 : G231 Memory Driver >Slot 7 : G110 Control/Data loops >Slot 8 : M7261 Control logic and microprogram (CPU control) >SLot 9 : M7260 Data Paths (CPU Data) > >16K version >Slot 1 A : KM11, B : KM11, C-F : SPC >Slot 2 A-B : Unibus Out (or M930 termiator), C-F : H213 or H214 core stack >Slot 3 : G231 Memory Driver >Slot 4 : G110 Control/Data loops >Slot 5 A-B : M930 (terminator) C-F : H213 or H214 core stack >Slot 6 : G231 Memory Driver >Slot 7 : G110 Control/Data loops >Slot 8 : M7261 Control logic and microprogram (CPU control) >SLot 9 : M7260 Data Paths (CPU Data) > > You don't have all the prints then. I have prints outlineing your two +: Module Utilization: Slot 9: M930 /Stack Slot 8: G231 Slot 7: G110 Slot 6: G231 Slot 5: G110 Slot 4: M930 / Stack Slot 3: M7261 Slot 2: M7260 Slot 1: Bf11 / M9970 / Km11A / KM11B (16k) I have 3 different print sets as the company I got all this equipment from was an inital beta test site for the 11/05. > >-tony >

26 years, 1 month

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DesqView/X v2.0 Disk needed....

by dann＠greycat.com

All right, I guess it's not under the 10-year rule, but I'm desparate, and this audience is the most likely to understand... I have an old Toshiba T3200SXC portable. It's the only DOS based machine I have left, and the only one, therefore, that will run my prom-burner software (Don't ask...) and some essential DOS based utilities. I had it hooked to my network and did things such as burn "BIOS" EPROMs for my VS3100's. The networking depended on some of the capabilities of DESQVIEW/X. Recently I *really* (&(*$^*%$ up, and managed to blow up my setup on that machine. Rebuilt everything, went to load DV/X and .... got an unrecoverable read error on my only copy of Disk #2. Aborts the install completely. In the midst of my preparations for hara-kiri, it came to me: Maybe someone out there had a copy of DV/X who would be willing to send me what's on Disk #2, or at the least, the bad file. The file is one of the compressed files, MERGECFG.EX_. The version of DV/X I'm using is 2.00. Quarterdeck/Symantec is no use; they don't even mention DV on their web page. As I said, I'm desparate, and again apologize for the (possibly) OT stuff. If you have v2 of DV/X around somewhere, or know where I can get that file, let me know. If you've got a full copy of DV/X you're willing to sell, and the disks are still readable (:-)), let me know that, too. Thanks! Dann Lunsford

26 years, 1 month

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Help! ID this Xerox mouse

by jlewczyk＠his.com

I have recently come into posession of what certainly appears to be a Xerox mouse and I am wondering if you can help be identify it, that is, what machine it was used on. It has no markings on the case, cable or connector. It has the same appearance as one used on the Alto with three grey buttons, beige case, exactly like the the one pictured here. http://www.newmedianews.com/pictures/1998/10/09/th_alto/3.jpg However, it is an optical mouse, unlike the "rolling ball bearing" mouse described in the Byte magazine article in Sept 1981 here. http://www.byte.com/art/9609/sec4/art3.htm It has a black cable, not too long, about 28", terminated in a grey db-9, not molded, but hand assembled. Here are two pictures of it, taken with my scanner. http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/MyXeroxMouse.jpg (123K) http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/MyXeroxMouseBottom.jpg (60K) Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I'd love to verify if it works! Are pin-outs available for it? John jlewczyk(a)his.com

26 years, 1 month

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My Biggest eBay gripe..

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 8:57 PM Subject: My Biggest eBay gripe.. > > > My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is >time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a >fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**. > > 'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an >agreed-upon span. > > I have bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of >aerospace and industrial surplus at auctions large and small, >sealed-bid and open-floor, honestly run and 'otherwise'. The reason >I dislike the eBay model is that the item most often goes to the >fastest/luckiest bidder (sniper)... and that's totally wacked, IMHO. > > I am not going to join the "capitalism vs. overvaluation" debate. >I'm a captialist *and* a collector... that's internal conflict >enough. > > I wonder how much tweaking would be involved on the part of eBay's >logicians to convert it over to the more familiar "going, going, >gone!" type of format. > > What do You All think?? > I emailed EBay asking them to extend an auction by 10 minutes every time a bid comes in close to the closing (within the last 10 minutes) . No response yet... I love the snipering though.. have gotten many great deals because people won't bid what they are willing to pay if they think no one else will bid. > Cheers > >John > > >

26 years, 1 month

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EBaying; howling after an auction

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 8:38 PM Subject: Re: EBaying; howling after an auction >>I've seen this, too. On one particular item that I wanted, >>in viewing the "View Sellers Other Auctions", I noticed that >>he had a number of them to sell. Spread out over a few days. >>I would bid on one and someone would outbid me. I'd bid on >>another and someone would outbid me. I finally just said forget >>it, this is getting ridiculous. :-) > >Certainly, E-bay does provides tools for many "commodity" type items >to compare one sale with past ones, so you know what a reasonable bid >is. There are evidently folks who don't know how to use this, and >it doesn't really bother me, I just feel kind-of-sorry for them. > >Other E-bay phenomena: > >1. Items (like HP C3010 2 Gbyte SCSI drives) that have been >flooding the surplus market. These are available from liquidators >like www.hitechcafe.com and www.compgeeks.com for $30-$35-$40, but >I've seen them bid up into the $50-$60 range on E-bay very regularly. >Same thing often happens for surplus PC-clone mainboards. > >2. What really amazes me is when a seller makes a reserve price auction, >very plainly states the reserve price in the item description, and >there are literally dozens of bids made *below* the stated reserve >price. What the ???. Either the bidders think this is entirely a >"bidding game", where the objective is to outbid the other guy with >no real intention to buy, or they don't read the description at all, or they >haven't a clue period. > Easy, to track the auction and get an email with the info about the auction (for future reference). Auction programs help you when you have a bid in. >Tim. >

26 years, 1 month

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 2:54 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked >> >> "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an >> >> 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis >> >> for testing? >> > >> >You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and >> >frontpanel for these. There was a 5.25" box versions and a 10.5" box >> >version with _different_ backplanes. They won't work in an 11/04 or 11/34 >> >backplane, though >> > >> > >> >> Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have >> both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214 > >There are at least 3 different backplanes, but the 11/05 and 11/10 can >use any of them. The 11/05 and 11/10 are really the same machine -- the >differences seem to be what was included when the machine was originally >shipped. > >The first backplane goes in the 5.25" box. The CPU cards go at the bottom >(in slots 8 and 9). No, CPU goes in slots 2&3, the maintenance board goes in slot 1. The next 3 slots are for one set of core memory >boards. And then 4 SPC slots, with Unibus out on slot 1 (top of box -- >yes, I do have this the right way round!). > >The second backplane is similar, and also goes in the 5.25" box. Again >the CPU goes in the bottom. The next 6 slots are for 2 sets of core >memory, with a single SPC (and unibus out) at the top (slot 1) > >The third backplane goes in the BA11-K 10.5" box. The CPU goes on the far >right (slots 1 and 2). Unibus out is on slot 9 (as you'd expect). One of >the A+B slots is for a paddleboard that connects to the the console >cable. I can't remember how many core memory sets you can put into it. > >> 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked) >> 72/73 - if there is no baud selection switch > >Hmmm... They're strictly different systems -- the rotary switch implies >it's an 11/05S board set. This has 2 extra features, firstly you can >easily disable the on-board console port (if you want to use a DL11 for >some reason) and secondly you can disable the unibus arbiter so that the >CPU can be a slave device on the unibus of another machine. > >> >> The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP >> 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely >> hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if > >Seems reasonable. Modifying backplanes isn't _that_ hard if you are >careful. I've done a couple of major backplane mods. The best thing to do >is to make a wirelist and tick off each wire as you do it. Oh, and don't >bother with one of those slit-n-wrap tools -- the general experience of >those is that about 10% of the connections are actually good. Do the job >properly, and it will work. > >-tony >

26 years, 1 month

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PS/2 Model 50 help wanted

by peter.pachla＠vectrex.freeserve.co.uk

I've already posted this to the PS/2 newsgroup but thought I'd drop it in here too just in case - I believe the machine in question is old enough (or odd enough) to qualify. Basically I'm in the process of restoring a Model 50 I was given recently and was wondering if anyone could point me at a technical reference guide for the machine? I also have a couple of questions. 1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one? 2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of interest)? 3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB. The card has a daughter board attached which is about half as long as the card. The visible part of the main PCB contains three (empty) 72-pin SIMM sockets. Any ideas on what this may be (some sort of turbo board, 386SX upgrade, etc)? Was it fitted as standard or was it added later? 4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU? Thanks. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk | peter.pachla(a)virgin.net | peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk --

26 years, 1 month

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PS/2 Model 50 help wanted

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have one of these PS2/M50Z. Nice boxen! There wer two versions the M50 and the M50Z. The latter was the faster 286 of the two. <1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what <capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one? The two standard controllers were 20mb or 60mb but there were later ones to I think 120mb. <2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of interest Not that I know of. <3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot <farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the <processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB. Likely a memory expansion. <4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a <replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU? best source is a PS/2 wreck (most any of the older models.). there is a web site that has PS/2 info. Can't seem to find it right now. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>One idea that has crossed my mind, but I don't know if there's any way >>to pull it off: There are obviously lots of "collectors" on E-bay who have >Between newsgroups and this list you have informed a number of people who >tend to blab, so lots more get key information. True, but for every well-connected classic computer user (and I rank all subscribers to classiccmp as "well-connected"!) I'm willing to bet there are 1000 others who don't have a clue as to what free resources there are on the web for their old platform, be it a PDP-11 or a CP/M machine or a IBM 1401 :-). >Ebay is simple, put some up for auction. Its an AD. I'm more concerned with hooking up users with all the free software archives that are already out there, than with selling any particular item. Even many of our "collector" pages, where folks put up pictures of their favorite old computers, often do a very poor job of connecting random readers to useful resources. Am I completely misguided in wanting to reach more people - in particular, folks we haven't already reached - so that they can more effectively use their classic computers? Many of our efforts on this list are confined to the small circle of those who are already "in the know". -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

6
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Outbid

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum bid <and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated increments <until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached. Ick, my machine can out bid you machine. Ah, shades of the 87 stockmarket. I think I stay away from online auctions for another few years. Allison

26 years, 1 month

2
1
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Outbid

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:44:55 -0700 "Mark" <markiw(a)prodigy.net> writes: >>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >>bidder until the end. > >Don't you hate it when that happens? > >One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum >bid and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated >increments >until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached. > >I am writing this on a computer I got there last year at about half >the going price that way. As eBay has gotten popular it is getting harder >to just watch the auctions and bid yourself. In fact, I no longer shop >there anymore as I think the prices have gone postal. Well, despite your astute observation, there *are* some bargains to be had. I just got an NOS 8" FDD for <$4. YOu just have to know which items are likely to go 'postal' and stay away. . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

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Outbid

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Now see guys? That's the kinda pricing *I* like to see! (It's the only kind I can afford . . . .) Jeff >Let me add a data point, lest Randy or others be left with the idea >that ebay prices are universal. Last month I bought an 11/73 for $5; the >zeros came *after* the decimal point. > >-- >Kevin >schoedel(a)kw.igs.net ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

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Outbid

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: schoedel(a)kw.igs.net <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Outbid >>Randy, I have another 11/73 loaded I was going to put up on EBay , you can >>have it for $300. It has a tape drive, RD52, memory, 8 line serial port, >>runs, its missing one switch on the front and the bottom of the stand is >>cracked.. other than that it runs micro rsx - happy machine. I think I might >>be able to dig up an RX50 for it as well. > >Let me add a data point, lest Randy or others be left with the idea that >ebay prices are universal. Last month I bought an 11/73 for $5; the zeros >came *after* the decimal point. and I am picking up: 2 Honeywell 316 systems with 4 (I repeat) 4 - PDP 11/05s with 2 RK05 on each) - FOR FREE! Either: 1- Straight 8 with full docs or 1- IBM 360 for $200. I don't think I'll sell any of them for less than $1000. Just because we get something for $5 or free does not mean they are *worth* that. (and I'm not even talking EBay dollars!) john > >-- >Kevin >schoedel(a)kw.igs.net >

26 years, 1 month

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Apple II-C

by edick＠idcomm.com

Another thing I've had lying about for a number of years is an apple II-C. Is there anything one can do with this thing hardware-wise to use it for some for of fairly complete I/O processing? If I pry it open, will I find anything there to which I could attach a cable and bring out, say, sufficient signals, etc, to drive a PIA or some such? Is there a bit of free software one can use to develop code for this thing? I'd like to fiddle with it if it allows putzing with I/O, since I'm always trying to stimulate/monitor SOMETHING to see how/whether it works. A simple box like the II-C might be just the thing. Any suggestions? Dick

26 years, 1 month

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Outbid

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

Randy, I have another 11/73 loaded I was going to put up on EBay , you can have it for $300. It has a tape drive, RD52, memory, 8 line serial port, runs, its missing one switch on the front and the bottom of the stand is cracked.. other than that it runs micro rsx - happy machine. I think I might be able to dig up an RX50 for it as well. If you want it or anyone else please email me. -----Original Message----- From: Randy Kaplan <rkaplan(a)accsys-corp.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:47 AM Subject: Outbid >Hello all - > >About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM) >this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very >disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs. >enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new >collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing >networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is ebay >at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and >friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by. > >Randy Kaplan >

26 years, 1 month

4
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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- daniel <daniel(a)internet.look.ca> wrote: > >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7261 pair... > Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have > both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214 > memory and G231/G110 core drivers.. The 11/05 uses that for it's own memory. > The older 11/05 backplane did not use +15V either! Given where this stuff came from (there's an inventory sticker glued to the back of one of the CPU boards of the company I rescued it from), that all makes sense. > Which CPU boards do you have. It's easy to tell. Does one of them have a > rotary switch to set the baud rate? It's not in front of me, but I do rememeber spotting one of those button rotaries on there and wondering what it was for. I recovnize it as usually being for baud rate, but I was guessing it was some kind of timing adjustment. > To get an 11/05 running you need: To jump in out of turn, IIRC, this particular unit also came to me with an RX11 controller. > M7260 > M7261 Check. > G231 X 2 > G110 X 2 > H214 X2 Well... I've only got 16K > G727 (grant) I have crates of those, including several "Grantasaurous Rex" cards, the original third-party double grant card (NPR plus the other three). I should scan one. For those that haven't seen them, they have no colored handle, but the PCB is but into a soft-edged T-handle with a dinosaur silkscreened in red on the "component" side. Somewhere, I still have the original artwork. Software Results Corp made and shipped one with every COMBOARD(R) > You don't need a console serial board (M7800) as that was built into the CPU > board. I didn't know that. I take it that it uses the standard DL11 cable? > You can tell the year of the PDP 11/05 CPU set by: > > 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked) Bingo. > I have restored many PDP 11/05s for "collectors" - yes, at $875 a pop! Stunning. > I have about 5-6 cpu sets, 1 is beta. Interesting. > >> Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. > I have two sets of these and run 8 RK05s, again, restored many of these. You > need a RK11-D backplane. I'm not sure I have one of those. > You can hand wire one (yes I know many who have for UNIBUS operation I can probably come up with the goodies to do that. I have the remnants of a PDP-8/L that came as parts with the first one I got... the chassis was broken (mounting bar in the front), the front panel scavenged, no core and obviously broken wires on the backplane. I wish I hadn't now, but I did remove the remaining wires from the backplane (one at a time, documenting them because it was the only way at the time to try and understand how the other one worked). The end result is that I have a set of DEC backplane blocks I could wire into a different configuration. I recycled the stamped metal bus strips on a couple segments into the upper address bits on a BA11N way back. DEC used to sell that stuff by the foot. I'd love to get a spool of it (Ha!) > The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP > 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely > hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if > you are interested in the wire list to do that. Wow. Much work. I'll get back to you if I can't find an RK11D backplane. > The PDP 11/05 needs AClow, DClow,5V, -15V. > > The newer ones required +15V. Muchas Gracias. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 1 month

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 6:52 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked >> "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an >> 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis >> for testing? > >You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and >frontpanel for these. There was a 5.25" box versions and a 10.5" box >version with _different_ backplanes. They won't work in an 11/04 or 11/34 >backplane, though > > Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214 memory and G231/G110 core drivers.. The 11/05 uses that for it's own memory. The older 11/05 backplane did not use +15V either! Which CPU boards do you have. It's easy to tell. Does one of them have a rotary switch to set the baud rate? To get an 11/05 running you need: M7260 M7261 G231 X 2 G110 X 2 H214 X2 G727 (grant) You don't need a console serial board (M7800) as that was built into the CPU board. You can tell the year of the PDP 11/05 CPU set by: 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked) 72/73 - if there is no baud selection switch 72 (beta) - hand stamped date before June 72, and a different layout of the M7261 (with loads of wires) I have restored many PDP 11/05s for "collectors" - yes, at $875 a pop! I have about 5-6 cpu sets, 1 is beta. >> >> Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is >> needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Paddle cards? I > >Again you need the right backplane. Apart from that, not a lot -- the >cabling is the standard BC11 Unibus cables (both for the Unibus and to >link up the RK05 drives). > >> think I've got an RKV11 box attached to an 11/03 (I haven't pulled it out of > >IIRC 3 of the 4 cards in that box are the same as the ones for the >RK11-D. The bus control is different (I think). > >> the corner yet) If I'm missing too much of it, I can probably fix the RK11C >> that I got with my first RK05 drives. I've never used it and neither did the > >Oh, RK11-Cs are fun to fix (for suitable values of 'fun'). I learnt about >hard disk controllers, Unibus DMA cycles, etc while tracking down a dead >chip in mine. Having the printset is _essential_, though! > >I have prints for the RK11-C and RK11-D, and the PDP11/05. I don't think >I have the RKV11-D set anywhere, but it can't be that hard to figure out. I have two sets of these and run 8 RK05s, again, restored many of these. You need a RK11-D backplane. You can hand wire one (yes I know many who have) for UNIBUS operation - PDP 11/05. The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if you are interested in the wire list to do that. The PDP 11/05 needs AClow, DClow,5V, -15V. The newer ones required +15V. > >-tony >

26 years, 1 month

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DEC boards unearthed

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1270 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991017/6b937f44/at…

26 years, 1 month

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Outbid

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Curious what are they going for? I'm still finding them for free to $100 a really nice corperate system complete might be worth more if you can haul it in the associted racks. Allison <About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top <bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM) <this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very <disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs. <enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new <collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing <networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is ebay <at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and <friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by.

26 years, 1 month

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Kaypro Computer History

by markiw＠prodigy.net

Thanks for the KayPro history reminder. I have not forgotten the Web page project and have just added your note to the file. I will get moving on it as soon as the weather turns winter. And please people, send me some scans of any and all KayPro graphics/photos you might have. So far only one gentleman has sent anything. Let's not let these fine machines be forgotten. (Okay, so maybe I should get a life, huh?) Send your KayPro scans to me at tgycwr(a)yahoo.com best. Thanks, Jim Rossbach, Visit the Web sites of Navy Vietnam Veterans at the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, http://tonkinyachts.cjb.net >

26 years, 1 month

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Outbid

by markiw＠prodigy.net

>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >bidder until the end. Don't you hate it when that happens? One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum bid and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated increments until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached. I am writing this on a computer I got there last year at about half the going price that way. As eBay has gotten popular it is getting harder to just watch the auctions and bid yourself. In fact, I no longer shop there anymore as I think the prices have gone postal. Regards, Jim Rossbach, Visit the Web sites of Navy Vietnam Veterans at the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, http://tonkinyachts.cjb.net

26 years, 1 month

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Outbid

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

If you're going to bid on e-bay, be prepared to get hurt. It's the most unforgiving marketplace on earth. It is regularly prowled by individuals with *extremely* deep pockets. Jeff On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:47:38 -0400 Randy Kaplan <rkaplan(a)accsys-corp.com> writes: >Hello all - > >About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM) >this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very >disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs. >enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new >collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing >networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is >ebay >at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and >friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by. > >Randy Kaplan > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

1
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Commodore manuals

by edick＠idcomm.com

While passing time on a snowy day when I didn't want to go outside yesterday, I saw the manual for a Commodore 64 while sifting through the rubble. I also found a VIC-20 manual while doing this sifting. Would this be of interest to anyone? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:13 AM Subject: TImex SInclair 1000 Manual While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? Dick

26 years, 1 month

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Kaypro Computer History

by philclayton＠mindspring.com

Since everyone is on the subject of Kaypro here is some information that I have compiled from articles I have read.. Kaypro BTW is my favorite computer I have at least one of every model in my collection, excluding a Kaypro Robie.. ALso have a Model 16 .. Perhaps someone could update this list and ad to it.. The more information the better.. Hope this is of some interest to everyone.. Phil... Kaypro Computer and Non-Linear Systems After Adam Osborne came out with the O-1, it was immediately set up as a target. Every company started shooting at the magic price of $1800. Among the people to set their sights at this figure was Alan Kay. Alan had originally started a company which sold oscilloscopes called Non-Linear Systems. He decided Osborne had the right idea, but needed a little tweaking on the case. He envisioned a computer which would not only be rugged enough to be carried around, but would be tough enough to be carried out in the field by engineers. With this idea in mind, he designed the Kaypro Computer. The case was made of aluminum which allowed it to be extremely rugged, but still save a little weight. These are sometimes nicknamed "Darth Vader's lunch box." Needless to say, this case passed the test for ruggedness. Except for the Robie and later DOS machines, all Kaypros had the same case and varying shades of gray paint. All the computers came bundled with software, originally the Perfect Series, but later WordStar and SuperCalc. Kay originally sold his computers under the company name of Kaypro, but it turned out this name had already been taken. He then sold the computers under the Non-Linear name, but was able to keep the Kaypro name on the computers. Somewhere along the way, he did manage to acquire the rights to Kaypro Company, but it was late in the company's life. The Kaypro II is the oldest computer Kaypro made. It has SSDD disks and the screen is green and it has the standard 64 K of RAM. After Kaypro left Chapter 11, they came out with several DOS compatibles, but were no longer considered a force in the industry. There were several unique units that came out including some extremely compact units that were designed to be desktop computers but were light enough to be carried from place to place. Kaypro II In the beginning there was the Kaypro II (aka II'83 later). It came with 2 SS/DD full-height floppies, a 2.5 MHz Z-80, one serial port, and bundled software from Perfect Software. Introduced late 82. Kaypro 10 Next was the original Kaypro 10. It came with 1 DS/DD floppy drive, a 10 meg HD, a 4.0 MHz Z-80A, two serial ports, light pen port, rudimentary graphics, a real time clock, and software from Perfect Software and dBase II. Introduced mid-83. Kaypro IV Then there was a Kaypro IV (aka IV'83 later). It was a II, but with DS/DD full-height floppy drives. Wordstar started being included in addition to the Perfect Software suite. Introduced in mid-83. (Same goes for the II'83, late versions included Wordstar also.) 1984 rolls around, and some changes made. Kaypro 4 The 4 (aka 4'84) is introduced. It now has two DS/DD half-height floppy drives, a Z-80A at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, internal 300 baud modem, a real-time clock, rudimentary graphics. Software is from Micropro (Wordstar, Calcstar, etc.) Early 1984. Kaypro 2 The 2 (aka 2'83) is introduced. It has two SS/DD half-height floppy drives, a Z-80A at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, rudimentary graphics. Software is from Micropro. Slightly later in 84. Kaypro 2X The 2X is introduced. This is closer to an old IV, or a 2 with DS/DD half-height drives. Again a Z-80A running at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, rudimentary graphics, software from Micropro. Kaypro Robbie Early 84. The Kaypro Robie is introduced. This is the first non-portable machine, a black desktop. This has 2 2.6 Megabyte (not a typo) floppy drives. Motherboard is basically the same as a 4, with the 300 baud modem, rough graphics, etc. (late 84?) 1985 arrives. Kaypro upgrades most of the machines to the "Universal ROM", so a boot disk for one can be used in another. The 4'84 is renamed the 2X (sometimes known as 2X MTC). Old 2X, 2'84, 4'84 are all dropped. Kaypro New 2 The "New 2" is introduced. This is basically an old 2X motherboard, but with just one DS/DD floppy drive. It comes with just CP/M and Wordstar for software. (early 85?) Kaypro starts producing the II'83 again, with Perfect software as opposed to Micropro software. (early 85). Kaypro 4X The Kaypro 4X is announced. It's a Robie but in the standard portable case. I also have seen reference to the 12X, which was going to be a Kaypro 10 but with a Robie floppy drive. (I've never actually seen a 4X or a 12X. The store where I worked might have sold only one or two Robies, so it wasn't a big seller.) 1986 or so arrives. Kaypro 1 The Kaypro 1 (yes one) is introduced. It's equivalent to the old 2X, with 2 DS/DD floppies, 4.0 MHz Z-80A, 2 serial ports, etc. The floppies are vertical as opposed to horizontal. It comes with CP/M and Perfect Writer for software. At this point, Kaypro is producing just the 1, 2X MTC, 10 and Robie basically. This continued until they got out of the CP/M machines. There were also a few variations on some of these machines, such as the 4+88, which had a SWP (?) co-processor board with an 8088, 256K of memory (which could be a ramdisk under CP/M), and could run some MS/Dos software.

26 years, 1 month

5
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identify this PDP11 core

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

What PDP11 system accepts this core memory set, and what type of buss? G116 H224C 32K Core Memory G236 Thanks. -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 1 month

1
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TImex SInclair 1000 Manual

by edick＠idcomm.com

While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? Dick

26 years, 1 month

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PDP 11/05 and PDP 11/45 available.

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

I have two systems that I have finished restoring that I would consider for trade for either an older PDP 8 or some negibus peripherals. Both CPUs are running and very happy. The PDP 11/05 has 16K core memory (2X H214) and has a KW11-P (real time clock) in it.It runs well. I really like 11/05's!!! This unit comes with a copy of the engineering docs, as well as the 11/05 computer manual (theory). The PDP 11/45 (runs, yes... really). I restored this CPU back in '86. I am just moving the PDP 11/45 CPU and console serial port. It comes with one supply and boots RT-11V5 (so it has been well tested) . This CPU is FAST compared to a 34. You have to run your own BA11 memory box... I might be convinced to part with some MOS memory and backplane for the right deal. This PDP 11/45 was really a pain to restore as I had no documents on it and spent the better part of two days scoping the inital problems. I have seen engineering docs go on EBay so finding them is not a problem anymore. Cash is always welcome. If a deal can't be struck then I'll be dropping these beasts on EBay. I am trimming my collection so these two have to go. P.S. I picked up a Nova 2 yesterday with Diablo drives, 6 boxes of documentation, 5 big boxes of paper (RDOS, fortran, algol, basic, etc...), kennedy tape drive, graphics generator, and of course a "Ken-Net" box to network it to a PDP. I think I have every paper tape/document ever made for this system. PDP - 8/S - I picked up the rest of the documents on it including - PC0 tape unit, PT08, floating point, the original "Flip Chip modules manual - rev. 1 , '65" and "Flip Chip Modules Seminar" as put on by DEC in 1965. The system is running everything and is very happy. Reading about how the Flip Chips were made was absolutely amazing.... (many pictures). john

26 years, 1 month

1
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Urgent Current Loop Question - ASR 33 / PT08

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

That's it Tony, and yes... I'm serious. They connected the ASR-33 across an inverter and shorted it out when the relay transmits. The R107 is RTL (with a real transistor) so it can't damage it. I made the change and...... the PDP 8/s is now running DECUS tic tac toe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got the docs finally on the PT08 and found a -3V reference supply was in the wrong slot... That would account for the problem I had initially. Otherwise the entire system is now happy. BTW: I also picked up the ASR 33 schematics and the "Teletype Service Manual - ASR 33" as well. Thanks for the help. john -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Urgent Current Loop Question - ASR 33 / PT08 >> >> Before I attempt to figure this one out I would like to know if anyone else >> can help me. > >I know the ASR33 pretty well, but I've never seen an 8/s. But maybe I can >help. I'm going to assume you have the sort of ASR33 that's normally used >with computers -- that's to say one with a current loop interface. >There's s 3 position knob on the front of the machine (line/off/local) >and no other controls on the 'call control unit' (electronics module). > >> >> I hooked up an ASR-33 (non DEC) to my PDP-8/s. I ran a maindec program and >> the PDP could talk to the teletype no problem, never an error. >> >> After spending 4 1/2 hours cleaning up bad solder joints on the receiver I >> got it up and running.... *kind of* >> >> The problem is this: The ASR-33 is interfaced to the PDP currently by tying >> one receive line to the input of a R107 (transistor inverter) and the other >> receiver line to the output of the same inverter. Then, the signal is >> *conditioned* (inverted) a few times before it is passed onto shift >> registers,,, etc.. > >Are you sure this is right. It sounds crazy to me (and now I'll get a >pile of replies pointing out how DEC were being clever here)... > >The ASR33 transmit loop is electrically a switch. Actually it's a complex >array of switches. but in the end, it either shorts the 2 Tx terminals or >opens them. There is no voltage on either terminal (in a 'stock ASR33') >from the ASR33 electronics. There are no other components involved. > >Connecting a switch between the input and output of an inverter is not >normally a good way to get a clean logic signal ;-) > >The normal circuit (used in all sorts of machines) is to connect one of >the tty Tx wires to one supply rail, possibly through a small resistor >to limit the current in the event of a short somewhere). The other tty Tx >wire to the other supply rail through a (larger) resistor. And then to >monitor the voltage at the 'top' of that resistor, say by connecting it >to the input of a logic gate. > >> >> If I hook up the teletype the WAY the circuit exists now I get a 0-1V data >> signal (notice positive) out of the first inverter which of course is >> totally incompatible with the others and the signal never passes through >> beyond the first inverter. >> >> If I disconnect the FIRST inverter from the second one and LEAVE the one >> receive line in the input of the first inverter ("floating") and hook up the >> SECOND receive line to the input of the now *disconnected* second inverter I >> get data. Most of the time good, but some bad characters get through. >> >> This is obviously not a working current loop solution. >> >> If the teletype is passive should I just connect the receive line on the >> input of the first inverter to ground or -3V??? > >Well, I could understand connecting the tty Tx loop between the input of >one inverter and the output of another one, especially if the input of >the latter was tied to a known logic level (so the output is just a >constant voltage source, etc). This makes an assumption about how >floating inputs behave, which may be OK on transistorised logic like this. > >You are _sure_ that you've connected to the right pins on the R107 >module, and that in fact that's the right module to be using? > >> #1) As I don't have docs nearby on the ASR-33 and have never had a VERY >> simple interface like this CAN I short the one receive line to ground or -3 >> volts???? > >Sure. Just make sure the TTY contacts don't have to carry high currents >(like don't connect the loop across the PSU) unless you like repairing >burnt/melted switches... > >> >> I just want to make sure the ASR 33 does not have any active part that will >> eat my PT08 for breakfast. > >Not that I know of... > >-tony >

26 years, 1 month

1
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WWII radio reciever

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Anyone want a WWII navy radio reciever? 70 pounds of iron, tubes, and vernier tuning. Shortwave bands. I'm not shipping it, and i'm getting real serious about tossing it out. SO, you need to be in Minneapolis, or coming by this area reasonably soon. Don't expect it to work, of course. -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 1 month

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RL02s available

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 16.10.99 20:56:37 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Gonna try to take a RL02 as carry-on luggage? :-). The above comment was only half-joking - I once took a full 10.5" high PDP-11/44 on an international flight. The power supply (the heavy part!) was removed and carried on, so that the main chassis (now just the steel frame and backplanes) weighed about 45 pounds and could fly without any checked-luggage-over-weight-allowance charges. I was lucky that day - they didn't weigh carry-ons (they often do in Europe now, and I think the limit is 5 or 7.5 kgs!) >> I fly a lot, and my hand luggage _NEVER_ has been weighted. However, I would not try to do that anyway (too lazy for lifting large weights when travelling), but there are many very good freight services in the US, a simple reference to the yellow pages will always allow me to take care of shipping within less than a day. It is simply so very much easier to find things in the US than in Europe, that shipping costs are outweighted by that. If you get together something on the order of at least 500 kg (a pallete full, say) I find that quite reasonable. John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 1 month

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DEC boards unearthed

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair... For the record, the above number is a typo... it should be M7260/M7261 pair. > You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and > frontpanel for these. I might have a 5.25" 11/05 box at the back of the pile. I probably pulled the cards to keep them in a better environment. > > Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... > > IIRC 3 of the 4 cards in that box are the same as the ones for the > RK11-D. The bus control is different (I think). Makes sense. > Oh, RK11-Cs are fun to fix (for suitable values of 'fun'). I learnt about > hard disk controllers, Unibus DMA cycles, etc while tracking down a dead > chip in mine. I have an ace up my sleeve - I can test basic M-series modules out of circuit with a chip tester and a harness I built from a test clip and some ribbon cable. I can clamp the test clip on each chip in turn for cards like the M216 or M111 etc. Takes second. I did build a FLIP-CHIP tester for the VIC-20 (the bare boards were available at RatShack), but I never wrote the software. I wanted to make a table-driven thing with graphical display of what faulty chips were found, but I never wrote a meta-language to decribe each signal, in and out, to be able to succinctly list off enough info to test a few dozen types of boards. > Having the printset is _essential_, though! Almost always the case. > I have prints for the RK11-C and RK11-D, and the PDP11/05. I don't think > I have the RKV11-D set anywhere, but it can't be that hard to figure out. Are these available scanned anywhere? Are you looking for any docs that we might be able to swap bits on? I don't relish paying to ship slices of dead trees across the pond. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 1 month

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Quake?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I think our California members should store their more precious old <computers on the east side of the fault line in case the rest of Californi <should someday slide off into the Pacific. Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;)

26 years, 2 months

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Quake?

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Upon the date 05:14 PM 10/16/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something like: >> Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;) > >My understanding of the tectonic plate movement is that everything east of >the Hayward/Roger's Creek fault will slide into the Atlantic. Oh thanks Fred :-/ Now I'll have to go out and buy flood insurance :( --Chris (in Western NY State) -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

26 years, 2 months

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Help with PDP-11/04 Front Panel

by jhfine＠idirect.com

I am supposed to go a look at a very old PDP-11/04 this week and would appreciate some help as to how the front panel is set up. Mainly, I want to be able to look at the program that was loaded using hardware ODT, that is just examine the program and confirm that it is the same as a listing that I will have on a laptop which I will bring along. I don't have to verify all 20 KBytes of the program, just look at it ever 1000 octal bytes to verify that it is the same at about 20 locations. I doubt if this information makes any difference, but I have been told it operates with paper tape, has core memory and an ASR-33 as the console device. Also, the program is stand alone (obviously since it has no disk drives). Mainly, I just want to press the HALT switch or button. Then I want to look at memory via hardware ODT, then restart the system without changing anything at all. Is this possible? I know how to do it on an 11/73. And I used to be able to do in on an 11/34. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine

26 years, 2 months

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DEC boards unearthed

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>After several years of "emergency" storage, I am relocating a large pile of >mostly DEC stuff from a friend's basement. I am finding stuff that I have >been looking for and finding stuff I forgot I had. Hey, I know what that feels like. Closest thing I can remember to Christmas morning as a little kid :-). >One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked >"datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an >11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis >for testing? If I'm not mistaken, the chassis will be OK, but you'll need an 11/05 backplane and front panel. >Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is >needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Yep, the backplane you want will have a sticker saying "RK11-D" on it. > Paddle cards? Standard Unibus cable connectors will do fine. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I know myself that I've not found _all_ of the PDP-11 and uVAX resources. >I've noticed some webpages, for example, never come up in any search engine >because the owner hasn't indexed their page properly or at all. I can >search till I'm blue in the face and miss stuff. Absolutely true. I already complained about the freeware archives that I maintain dropping out of several prominent search engines where they used to be prominently mentioned. The pages (and pages referring to these pages) have been submitted to the search engines many times since they disappeared, but have never come back. Here's where I'm sure someone can help me. If anyone could look at, for example, my DECUS freeware index at http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/ and particularly suggest which META tags I might have to add again to make this page (and the pages that it refers to) show up in search engines, I'd greatly appreciate it! Back when these pages were indexed by search engines, they'd get hundreds of search hits a day. But now they never ever turn up, and I don't know why. I mean, the pages still have the same information they always did, and it's not like anyone else has a similar index on the web that replaces this one. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but it seemed to me that a couple of years ago the search engines did a very good job of finding a page based on content. For example, if I knew a key phrase that occured somewhere on a page, I could do an Altavista search for that phrase (in quotes) and get a hit every single time. This doesn't seem to work the same way anymore. Is it because search engines no longer index based on content? If they aren't based on content, then what the heck are they based on? And I've also been warned that adding too many META tags will actually cause some search engines to reject a page (or even an entire site) for indexing, as they don't want folks essentially using search engines as a form of Spam. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

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Quake?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>So where was this quake for us less informed types? > >--Chuck A 7.0 about 30 miles N of Joshua Tree (that is, about 90 miles ENE of downtown LA). See http://www.scec.org/ for more details. According to the folks I know east of LA, the quake felt *much* bigger than the '92 Landers Earthquake which was a 7.3 (and I personally rode out, along with the Northridge quake a few years later.) Lots of stuff thrown off tables and shelves. Supposedly one of the I-40 bridges in Barstow is pretty badly damaged, but still standing. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

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DEC boards unearthed

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

After several years of "emergency" storage, I am relocating a large pile of mostly DEC stuff from a friend's basement. I am finding stuff that I have been looking for and finding stuff I forgot I had. Today was diskpack and circuit-board day (rack day comes later ;-) The most striking thing I found was a lot of PDP-11 core memory. If anyone is looking for some, I'm willing to trade it for PDP-8 core, something I can put to better use. In addition to several PDP-11/20 4K stacks (H207), there are a couple of H214 stacks and one hex-height 16k set, G235, H217C and G114. I do have driver boards for the 4K stacks, but not all the backplanes (I rescued as much as I could of the contents of an 11/20 from the dumpster at work around 1988, but it just wasn't all in there). I might even still have the CPU box, but it is likely that I don't have a power supply. One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis for testing? Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Paddle cards? I think I've got an RKV11 box attached to an 11/03 (I haven't pulled it out of the corner yet) If I'm missing too much of it, I can probably fix the RK11C that I got with my first RK05 drives. I've never used it and neither did the people I got it from (they wanted the drives for something else and already had the controller). I would like to back up the several dozen RK packs I moved today, too. I have several options for CPUs and OSes, but I need to identify which RK controllers are going to work before I can see about spinning off RK images. We took some pictures with my friend's digital camera. I'll post a URL when he gets them to me and I get them up on my page. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 2 months

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FS: PDP 11/03, 23 73 (fwd)

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Up Heads: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:52:15 -0600 From: Charles Stoyer <cstoyer(a)support.interpex.com> To: Info-PDP11(a)transarc.com Subject: FS: PDP 11/03, 23 73 I have 3 LSI-11's from the very late '70's, early '80's. Basic units have processor and RX02 drive. Accessories include 1 9-track tape drive (1600/800 bpi), RL02 10Mb disk drive (can't get removable disk out), A/D and clock boards. Some spares. Processors include 11/73, 11/23 and maybe 11/03. At last check I think everything was in working order. Also Tektronix 4006 and large Non-DEC wide printer/printing terminal (dot matrix). I can ship UPS ground if items are within limits. Items are in Golden, Colorado, USA (near Denver). No reasonable offer refused. E-mail cstoyer(a)support.interpex.com if interested. Charles -- Charles Stoyer Golden CO ---------- To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to info-pdp11-request(a)village.org, with the first line of the message body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes).

26 years, 2 months

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RL02s available

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Now had I known that! I was acting upon the assumption that like most other >drives the 60 Hz RL02s would not work without significant changeover on the >German 50 Hz power. Thank you very much for that info, next time I will >know better and secure the drives. Gonna try to take a RL02 as carry-on luggage? :-). The above comment was only half-joking - I once took a full 10.5" high PDP-11/44 on an international flight. The power supply (the heavy part!) was removed and carried on, so that the main chassis (now just the steel frame and backplanes) weighed about 45 pounds and could fly without any checked-luggage-over-weight-allowance charges. I was lucky that day - they didn't weigh carry-ons (they often do in Europe now, and I think the limit is 5 or 7.5 kgs!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

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HP RTE Manuals

by lance＠costanzo.net

I rescued two RTE manuals from the trash. RTE System Internals, Volumes I and II, February 1981. They look manuals from an HP training course. Manuals are FREE. I figure $5 should cover mailing within the US-48. Lemme know or back in the bin they go. Lance. Lance Costanzo http://www.webhighrise.com System Administrator Website and Virtual Domain Hosting lance(a)costanzo.net starting at $5/month, no setup fees

26 years, 2 months

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RL02s available

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Now had I known that! I was acting upon the assumption that like most other drives the 60 Hz RL02s would not work without significant changeover on the German 50 Hz power. Thank you very much for that info, next time I will know better and secure the drives. John G. Zabolitzky <<< In fact, my "RL01/RL02 Disk Drive Maintenance Course" textbook says: The circuits controlling the drive motor in line are located on two modules. The drive logic module decodes the speed of the rotating spindle and sends the signals to the AC servo module which controls the drive motor's duty cycle. >>>

26 years, 2 months

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Well I see that just about every computer-related section on eBay has an >entry for "Computer mini-vacuum only $14.99". I guess that if you have the >time to develop a script that reposts your item (read "advertisement") to >dozens of sections every week, for supposed auction, then eBay doesn't >mind. Personally I find this sort of ad irritating. I find it very tacky, too! Besides, E-bay frowns on any links which refer to anything they may possibly view as a competitor, and I'm already teamed up with Amazon.com myself. (Besides, some folks here already view my teaming with Amazon.com as if I had signed a pact with the devil, but that's another story.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

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Urgent Current Loop Question - ASR 33 / PT08

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

Before I attempt to figure this one out I would like to know if anyone else can help me. I hooked up an ASR-33 (non DEC) to my PDP-8/s. I ran a maindec program and the PDP could talk to the teletype no problem, never an error. After spending 4 1/2 hours cleaning up bad solder joints on the receiver I got it up and running.... *kind of* The problem is this: The ASR-33 is interfaced to the PDP currently by tying one receive line to the input of a R107 (transistor inverter) and the other receiver line to the output of the same inverter. Then, the signal is *conditioned* (inverted) a few times before it is passed onto shift registers,,, etc.. If I hook up the teletype the WAY the circuit exists now I get a 0-1V data signal (notice positive) out of the first inverter which of course is totally incompatible with the others and the signal never passes through beyond the first inverter. If I disconnect the FIRST inverter from the second one and LEAVE the one receive line in the input of the first inverter ("floating") and hook up the SECOND receive line to the input of the now *disconnected* second inverter I get data. Most of the time good, but some bad characters get through. This is obviously not a working current loop solution. If the teletype is passive should I just connect the receive line on the input of the first inverter to ground or -3V??? Picture below: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- The way it was: Receive #1 -----------|>o----------(Receive #2)----------|>o---------|>o--- etc.. The SIGNAL at receive #2 was 0 -> +1 Volt (data) The way it is now: Receive #1-------|>o--- [broken] Receive #2 -------|>o-------|>o------|>o---------- Clean looking data but flaky (prob due to the other *floating line*. #1) As I don't have docs nearby on the ASR-33 and have never had a VERY simple interface like this CAN I short the one receive line to ground or -3 volts???? I just want to make sure the ASR 33 does not have any active part that will eat my PT08 for breakfast. john

26 years, 2 months

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

You made some good suggestions, and what I write below may look as if I'm criticizing your techniques. I'm not critcizing your techniques - they're about as good as they come! - but I am criticizing how various phenomena on the web put people off of finding appropriate resources. >Here's how I find anything for classic computers: >------------------------------------------------ >Look on 5 or 6 different search engines. Unfortunately, many of the best classic archives have "dropped off" the responses of most search engines. For instance, at one point in time all of the DECUS indices I maintain at http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/ were tracked by Altavista and other major search engines. In the past six months, though, they've all dropped off. Why? I think it has to do with the trend for search engine designers to think that "if it's old, it's not relevant", and in the web-world 6-months old is *old*. Anyone seen the HotBot ads? If your web page is a few months old, they rank you with the geezers! With the increasing trend toward more glitzy web sites, I'm afraid that an archive 20 or 30-year old text, source code, and assembler source is going to get even fewer hits by many modern search engines. >Search Dejanews. This, actually, is pretty good, if you find the right responses. Many Usenet responses, though, are of the form "see the FAQ" or "see the <name but not URL goes here> archive", and a newbie won't know how to find what the respondent is talking about. (This applies to this mailing list here, too, BTW. There's a common reliance on internal resources instead of pointing folks toward resources maintained by folks off-list.) >Post questions to this list and/or appropriate mailing lists/newsgroups. Sure, this works quite well if you're already "in the know" enough to know where to ask. I'm mainly concerned about folks who don't know where to start. >Look on eBay/Haggle/etc for possible books. What I would really, really like to see is for places like eBay or Amazon or Haggle maintain references to items they don't offer for sale. Of course, there's zero commercial incentive for them to do so. >Besides the web, mailing lists and newsgroups, events like the VCF are >great. Again, a wonderful resource for those already in the know! Though if we're lucky some of the media coverage of the VCF events will actually contain useful links to this mailing list and other resources. >And perhaps people on this list who frequent swapmeets which are >frequented by other classic computer enthusiasts would be willing to have >a little stack of flyers sitting on a corner of their table. This is a *very* excellent suggestion! Maybe I can help make it happen. I can put together a glitzy postscript file (hey, I'm getting pretty good at page layout in writing postscript by hand these days) with good PDP-11/DEC resources listed on it. Again, I'm putting my emphasis not necessarily on collectors, but on people who continue to use classic computers. I, myself, am not particularly impressed by websites that are just pictures of someone's computer collection and talk about these machines as relics from the past or museum items. But I *am* impressed by folks who continue to actively develop for older platforms, and want to let the wider world know what's available today. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

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Clint Wolf, Please Contact Me

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Pardon the noise, but I need to contact . . . . Clint-- I need you to contact me via private e-mail. The last address I got bounces. Thanks! Jeff We now return you to our normally scheduled programme . .. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 2 months

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VaxStation Questions

by stanp＠storm.ca

I recently added a VAXStation 3100 M48 to my collection. As with almost every other bit I've added, I got a few questions: 1) The output from a >>> sh mem command is: 01000000 00000000 00FE3E00:00FFFFFF What does this translate to??? 2) What monitor would I need / be able to use with this box? I'm using VT320 for a console now, but the thought of an OpenVMSWindows box has potential.... 3) When I try to boot from the external RZ55 I got with it, VMS 5.5.2 comes up and hangs (solid) after displaying: %TMSCPLOAD-I-LOADTMSCP, loading the TMSCP tape server This happens even trying to boot to VMS's single user mode, and with or without a TK50Z attached... Any thoughts??? Thanks.... Stan

26 years, 2 months

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pdp8/f (now Amiga poster)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 15, 18:41, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: pdp8/f (now Amiga poster) > > case of good manners. Once you've made a deal with someone you simply don't > > back out just because you got a better offer etc - it's just NOT done! :-( > > One thing I've learnt from this thread is that there are people here who > I do not intend to make deals with -- ever. Their standard of behaviour > and mine are just too different. Before anyone gets too much more upset by this discussion, perhaps I should mention that John just told me that if I really wanted the book, he thought it had once been available on the web. That reminded me of something I checked out a year or two ago. The curious might investigate https://toolbox.sgi.com/toolbox/hardware/hwHandbook/ but don't expect vast amounts of serious technical info. BTW, if anyone has the "GIO Bus Specification" referred to in Chapter 4, I'd like a copy :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 2 months

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PS/2 Model 50 help wanted

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/15/99 7:19:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk writes: > I've already posted this to the PS/2 newsgroup but thought I'd drop it in > here > too just in case - I believe the machine in question is old enough (or odd > enough) to qualify. > > Basically I'm in the process of restoring a Model 50 I was given recently > and > was wondering if anyone could point me at a technical reference guide for > the > machine? http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/cdt/hmm.html > I also have a couple of questions. > > 1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what > capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one? you can only use drives originally assigned to the machine unless you want to go scsi external... > > 2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of interest)? > no. not supported. > 3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot > farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the > processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB. > > The card has a daughter board attached which is about half as long as the > card. The visible part of the main PCB contains three (empty) 72-pin SIMM > sockets. > > Any ideas on what this may be (some sort of turbo board, 386SX upgrade, etc)? run peter wendt's adaptor card id'er program. goto http://members.aol.com/mcapage0 the program is listed on the ps2 support page he has. > > Was it fitted as standard or was it added later? > > 4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a > replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU? only way to fix is replace ps from a parts machine. > > Thanks. > > > TTFN - Pete. DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 2 months

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Fw: PDP-11/44 assistance.... (possible repost??)

by west＠tseinc.com

I didn't ever see an answer to this post nor am I sure it ever went out. Sorry if this is a repost... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay West <west(a)tseinc.com> To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:01 PM Subject: PDP-11/44 assistance.... > Tony had asked about what chips were in the standard memories board that I > posted about.... > > It is Standard Memories MM-144. Unibus: there's two rows of 20 ram chips > each, and underneath that is two rows of 20 empty sockets each. Underneath > that is two rows of 19 ram chips each, and underneath it is two rows of 19 > empty sockets each. So, (2x20)+(2x19)=78 chips total. The chips are all OKI > M3764-20RS. On the right side of the board on the top are three LED's > designated +5B, RUN, and U.ERR. Underneath that is a 14 pin DIP jumper pad, > and two 8 switch DIPS. Any ideas on how much memory this is and would anyone > happen to have docs on this board? > > Also, I think my previous post about the modules in the 44 wasn't listed > correctly. The slots are filled as follows: > > 1 A-B M7090 CIM > 4 A-F M7094 > 5 A-F M7095 > 6 A-F M7096 > 7 A-F M7097 > 8 A-F M7098 > 10 A-F MM-144 (see above) > 14 A-B first half of M9202 > 15 A-B 2nd half of M9202 > 16 D G727A > 23 M9302 > > I found it odd (to my very uninformed mind) that the G727A was stock in slot > 16 D with nothing else around it. If I don't want to hook anything up to > this system other than a serial console for now, how should I move the above > cards around to prevent continuity problems??? > > Thanks in advance! > > Jay West > > >

26 years, 2 months

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RL02s available

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Hi all, there are 5 RL02 drives sitting at a scrapper in the San Diego area. All Computer Surplus 297 S Marshall Ave El Cajun Since I am travelling, no time at hand, and furthermore facing the 50 Hz/60 Hz problem, I could not do anything about it. John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 2 months

2
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Zenith Z-90

by awcl＠awcoldstream.com

Hello, Thsi is my first post to the list. My apologies if this is off topic. I looking for Zenith Z90 computer. Thank you Anil

26 years, 2 months

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RL02s available

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 15, 19:18, Tony Duell wrote: > > Now I've never used a RL02 drive on 50Hz power, but I'm 99% certain that > > the motor speed in a RL02 is determined by a servo loop, and thus > > not locked to a multiple of the AC frequency. > > Currect. From the RL01/RL02 Technical Manual : > > 'RL01/RL02 drives are shipped from the factory as 115Vac/60Hz units. > Field change to 230Vac 50 or 60Hz is acoomplished by reversing either of > two terminal block covers located externally at the rear of the drive. > The RL drives run the motor at considerably below synchronous speed. They > control the motor speed with a couple of triacs on the AC Servo Module, > and measure the speed (IIRC) using the sector pulse timing. That's why > the disk spins _very_ fast if you forget to plug the transducer in... Or if the AC servo board goes in certain ways, as I discovered in one of a pair I got from Heriot-Watt University: the local DEC engineer had at some time in the dim and distant passed fixed one drive by swapping the AC servo for one that was rarely used. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Cool new toy!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi Folks, I finally got something that I've been after for a long time. It's a Tektronix System Test Fixture, PN 067-0746-00. It's for the Tektronix 4051 computer, 4662 Plotter, 4924 Tape unit and other Tektronix items that use the 6800 CPU. It's a box with switches and indicator lights that lets you halt the system CPU and view and change the contents of any memory location, single step the system, etc. You can also set it to halt the system when it gets to a certain address or when a certain data word occurrs. It also contains a ROM with test routines for the 40551 computer. A friend of mine found this at a flea market and I've been trying to get it away from him for months. My persistance finally paid off. Joe

26 years, 2 months

2
1
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pdp8/f (now Amiga poster)

by jfoust＠threedee.com

26 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Idle thoughts, irony...

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

While reading the usual morning mail, a bit of irony chased its way through my gray matter. While on my recent trip to the Bay Area, both to attend part of VCF and do a little scrounging, I was high bidder for a nice HP 545A logic probe a fellow had up on E-pay (around $25 if I recall). I was able to pick it up while on said trip, as he lived in south San Jose. Picking this up completed my collection of HP's logic probe/troubleshooting family: Probe, pulser, and current tracer. To this day, I still consider this set one of the best for poking around in both legacy and current logic circuits. A few months back, when I'd gotten hold of the current tracer, several folks were envious, though I couldn't understand why even after asking around and getting a basic idea of what it was used for. I'm now well into my second year towards my A.A.S. degree in Electronics, and my current class is Intro to Digital circuits. I find it most ironic that my textbook, published less than a year ago, should make extensive reference to all THREE HP probes (which were first developed in the mid-70's or earlier), including the current tracer, and show clear illustrations of how they're all used to find stuck levels, shorted inputs, etc. What works well does indeed endure. ;-) I do not regret going back to college, despite the effort of cramming Boolean algebra and Karnaugh maps into my gray matter! (though I find I really do like working with Karnaughs. They simplify things immensely!) On we go... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 2 months

2
1
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Avaiable: old IMSAI chassis

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Further to my efforts to free up some room, a smaller item of possible interest. A (very) old IMSAI 8080 chassis. Consists of the chassis, IMSAI backplane, 10amp (point to point wiring) power supply, IMSAI CPU card, display mask and plexiglass panels. Missing the front panel board, upper cover, grey switch bezel. (it gave of itself to restore a number of other machines over the years) Trades or offers of $$ entertained... (before I give in to the siren call of ePay... B^} ) For trade suggestions check out the 'Most wanted' section on the 'Garage' web site. Have at you! -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives

26 years, 2 months

3
2
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RL02s available

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>there are 5 RL02 drives sitting at a scrapper in the San Diego area. >All Computer Surplus 297 S Marshall Ave El Cajun >Since I am travelling, no time at hand, and furthermore facing the 50 Hz/60 Hz >problem, I could not do anything about it. Now I've never used a RL02 drive on 50Hz power, but I'm 99% certain that the motor speed in a RL02 is determined by a servo loop, and thus not locked to a multiple of the AC frequency. I think the fan in a 50Hz RL02 will run a bit slower, but I don't think this will hurt anything. The power selector blocks on the back of the drive allow the selection of 90-128VAC or 180-256VAC. All my (US) RL02 drives have stickers on the back saying "120V, 60Hz", but I think the voltage is just the factor configuration and the "Hz" is just an anachronism. In my RL01/02 books the presence of a 50Hz option isn't even mentioned, though the tables specify that it's designed for 60Hz power. If folks know otherwise, they're welcome to correct me! John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

PDP 11/40 available (Oregon)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>There is a picture of the '40 on the website if you want to have a look >>see... >So what is above the CPU in the taller picture? It looks like a paper-tape reader to me, but it may also be a punch - I can't tell from the tiny little picture. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Vic20 help..

by jester909＠Phreaker.net

I have two problems and 2 Vic20s. 1. My uncle had a vic20 ALONG time ago wich I just recently found. When I pluged it in and turned it on "Let there be light!" A big blue flash appeared and I think the fuse blew. Is there any paticurlar fuses that it uses? 2. My other Vic20 works "ok" But when I load a cart it does not start up right away. How do I load a cart? I know LOAD "*",8,1 is for disks. But whats for carts? Thanks.. Sorry if this posts twice for some reason I cant post with my other email address. Jester

26 years, 2 months

6
6
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PDP 11/40 available (Oregon)

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

MOVing back into the season of hiding out in the 'Garage' to work on winter projects, the Garage seems a bit more space constrained than makes for a comfortable working area, so a bit of redistribution may be in order. To that end: Available: (2) PDP-11/40 CPUs. When I acquired them the intent was for one unit to be restored with the other as a spare/backup/parts unit. Both are currently in standard six foot tall DEC corporate racks, although only one of the racks is offered in this deal. Functional condition of both units is unknown. I did some work on the primary CPU a couple of years ago and it seemed (at the time) to be reasonably coherent, but since it has set idle for a year or so, no promises. Both are reasonably outfitted, lots of backplane space and cards. And no, I don't recall what all is there right off hand. For someone SERIOUSLY interested in obtaining the units I will take a look. They really should go as a pair, but under the proper circumstances I could be convinced otherwise... How much? Well... that one is open for discussion... Trades are always interesting, for ideas check the 'Most Wanted' list on the 'Garage' website. For those offering green? I'm listening... Getting them from here to there? That's up to you... I'll help extract them from the Garage, but from that point 'yer on yer own...' B^} There is a picture of the '40 on the website if you want to have a look see... Let the games begin! -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives

26 years, 2 months

2
2
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RL02s available

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Now I've never used a RL02 drive on 50Hz power, but I'm 99% certain that >> the motor speed in a RL02 is determined by a servo loop, and thus >> not locked to a multiple of the AC frequency. >> >> I think the fan in a 50Hz RL02 will run a bit slower, but I don't think >> this will hurt anything. >Motor speed is controled by line mains freq. I think the 50hz unit has >a differnt spindle size. I havent looked under one in 15 years. What you say certainly describes the RK05, lots of 8" floppy drives with AC-drive motors and belts, and many other 14" disk drives, but I'm now 99.44% certain that there's a servo loop for motor speed regulation in a RL02 and that it's not tied to having a mathematical relationship of pulley sizes or the AC line frequency. In fact, my "RL01/RL02 Disk Drive Maintenance Course" textbook says: The circuits controlling the drive motor in line are located on two modules. The drive logic module decodes the speed of the rotating spindle and sends the signals to the AC servo module which controls the drive motor's duty cycle. The disk speed control portion of the DLM monitors the sector pulse that is created from the reluctance pick-up and shaped by the circults on page DL6. This shaped sector pulse, called sector detect, and the clock from the interface logic are used by the counting logic to determine how much time is elapsing between sector pulses. The result is a signal called Control Speed-up, which is sensed by the AC servo module. When active, it increases the duty cycle of the drive motor from 20% to 60%, speeding up the cartridge. If the disk is within the speed limits., Control Speed-up is negated, allowing the drive motor to run at a 20% duty cycle. This indicates that the master clock setting the drive rotation rate comes from the interface board in the Q-bus/Unibus/Omnibus (I believe this is in turn derived from a crystal oscillator), and that it is not directly tied to the AC line frequency. Indeed, if you put a not-RL01 or not-RL02 pack in a RL drive and try to spin it up, the fact that the sector gaps aren't present in the same number means that it'll spin up to a different speed than if you have a real RL pack in the drive. There may be a separate "50Hz" RL drive variant, but I've not seen any indication of its existence here in North America, in parts lists, user's manauls, or in maintenance guides. I'm sure some of our more international members will have better information than I do. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

listproc? Testing this list

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Jay wrote: > Is there something wrong with the list? > > A) It's unusually quiet > B) I've recently seen people talking about messages I'm fairly certain I > never saw > C) I suspect one or two of my messages never went out > > Just testing..... Quiet? I wouldn't say that. This week it's been at sixty or seventy messages per diem, about twice what it was last week. Not up to the hundred or more that we sometimes observe, thankfully... Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

26 years, 2 months

2
1
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Collecting IBM Manuals

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Hi all, does anyone collect IBM manuals from the mainframe line, like system /360, or even older ones, like 1140, 1401, 7090, and earlier ? I would be particularly interested in any hardware docs. Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 2 months

2
1
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collectors vs. enthusiasts

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

Well I think the bids on PDP 8s will finally tone down on EBay. The guy that paid $1300 for the case needed it because he had CPU boards. He bid $300 on my boards and placed ANOTHER 7 bids in the last 15 miniutes to make sure he would not get snipered under $1000 for them. It looks like he really wants to run a PDP 8/e. But... I see this morning someone put up a PDP 8e doc set on EBay so I wonder how many $100s he will pay for that. Now that he has what he wanted it looks like the 8 stuff will sell for the usual $500 or less on EBay. P.S. If someone put up a Desktop Honeywell 716 on EBay I would probably do the same thing. john -----Original Message----- From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 2:00 AM Subject: Re: collectors vs. enthusiasts >At 05:14 PM 99/10/13 -0600, you wrote: >>I think we are seeing some of the same thing in computers, >>and eBay (and other auction sites) make it easy for them. >>Hopefully this is just a passing fad. If enough of these >>"investors" get burned they may not return. > >For what it's worth, I'm also an enthusiast/collector of old radios from >the 1920s and 30s, and eBay has caused the same thing to happen with prices >in that realm. Old radios and speakers are changing hands at values far >above what they're actually "worth", based on the number still in >existence, the technologies used, etc. > >This cost craziness has even spilled over into the local secondhand/antique >market, where radios that used to be fairly priced at say $100 are now >price tagged at say $400-$500. > >I think that speculation on eBay has caused prices to rise artifically, to >the detriment of those who seek to acquire for love of the technology and >the fun of getting old radios (or old computers) working again. These >things are significant parts of history that will be lost unless some folks >care enough to preserve them. > >Kevin > > >--- >Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD >mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca >

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

IBM PC Jr.

by LightNin369＠cs.com

I have an IBM PC Jr. that I want to get rid of. Do you know anyone that is interested? My email is LightNin369(a)cs.com Thanks. Michelle

26 years, 2 months

2
1
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Desperate...Help...HP 9-track drive...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>One thing, the drive never really seems to *look* for the BOT marker. I >mean, pressing load causes the drive to immediately rewind a good 8"-1' of >tape and then stops there. Nothing else. It's possible that the optical sensors in the tape path are out of adjustment or simply just dusty. Most tape drives have at least two sensors, one for the BOT and one for the EOT marker, and some have a third sensor for "tape present in tape path". If these are giving nonsensical combinations, (for example, both BOT and EOT at the same time) the machine is likely to do weird things or fail its self-test. In some cases, bright light (i.e. direct sunlight) shining into the tape drive will temporarily screw up these sensors, leading to the classic stories of "tape drive works in the morning but not in the afternoon"! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

DOs/Windows Based PdP8/e emulator

by rkaplan＠accsys-corp.com

Hi - Can someone point me to a MSDOS or Windows-based emulator for the PDP-8 or 8e? Thanks, Randy Kaplan

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Fwd: Acoustic modems?

by Roger＠Sinasohn.com

Please respond to Tim directly at <astrl3(a)uaa.alaska.edu> if you can help... >Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:18:45 -0800 >From: Tim Long <astrl3(a)UAA.ALASKA.EDU> >Subject: Acoustic modems? > >Hi! I am interested in purchasing an acoustic modem, but I have not been >able to find one anywhere. First, are there any acoustic modems that are >compatible with modern IBM-clone PCs? Where could I find one? I have >checked most of the local used computer stores, but all I have gotten have >been weird facial expressions from the proprietors, usually followed by, >"No, we haven't had those in YEARS!" Any information you could give me >would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Tim Long >astrl3(a)uaa.alaska.edu > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

26 years, 2 months

6
5
0 0

listproc? Testing this list

by west＠tseinc.com

Is there something wrong with the list? A) It's unusually quiet B) I've recently seen people talking about messages I'm fairly certain I never saw C) I suspect one or two of my messages never went out Just testing..... Jay West

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Konrad Zuse

by zuse＠cs.tu-berlin.de

Hi, look at: http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~zuse Best regards Horst Zuse

26 years, 2 months

2
1
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Victor PC available

by aknight＠mindspring.com

Hello, The fellow who wrote me the following e-mail saw that I was looking for Victor calculators on my web site and wrote me to say he has a Victor PC available. If you have any interest in this PC, please contact Scott directly at the e-mail address in his message. In another message he wrote that the computer does work, and that he would hate to just throw it in the trash. Hopefully one of you will find a home for this machine! Regards, Alex Knight Calculator History & Technology Museum Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm forwarded message: From: "Humerickhouse, Scott A" <Scott_Humerickhouse(a)Conseco.com> >Subject: Victor Computer > >Hello, >I have a Victor 8086 PC that is in very good working condition (I have all >of the original manuals too). Victor only made computers for a short period >of time, so I am not sure how much this machine is worth, but it is of no >use to me anymore. If you would be interested in this PC, please email me >back. > >Thanks, >Scott

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

PDP-11 to give away (fwd)

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Achtung! Ein heads-up: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 14 Oct 1999 12:46:52 GMT From: Christoph Gartmann <gartmann(a)immunbio.mpg.de> To: Info-PDP11(a)transarc.com Subject: PDP-11 to give away Hello, we have an old PDP-11 here in Freiburg, Germany that we will dump unless someone is interested to pick it up. Its hard disk is dead that is why it has to go. Regards, Christoph Gartmann -----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452 | | Immunbiologie | | Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann(a)immunbio.mpg.de | | D-79011 Freiburg, FRG | +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html -----------+ ---------- To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to info-pdp11-request(a)village.org, with the first line of the message body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes).

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Desperate...Help...HP 9-track drive...

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Desperate...Help...HP 9-track drive... >> One of the things I like the least about my collection of Olde >> Iron, is the amount of time I seem to have to spend >> diagnosing/repairing vs. enjoying the system. I am a BSEE, and have >> spent a good deal of my career fixing broken things, and I've paid >> some dues as a programmer and systems analyst, too... but it's >> seldom I turn on a system that it doesn't woof it's cookies and go >> casters up on me. That's the best part! I get bored quickly with old systems that run. Most of the minis I get out of plants "operational" are far from operational. I never board swap so that keeps things interesting. They usually take a few days to a few weeks to fully restore. Most of them come with poor software... I spend my days designing hardware/firmware and some software for new projects so I don't find it too interesting writing Fortran programs on a teletype. The Honeywell 316 series *were* my favorite computers because they break down so often. At one time I had three of them taking turns crapping out. I think I might be able to enjoy writing some code on the PDP 8/s. For anyone interested I am setting up a small communications server with a Nova, the 8/s, and a PDP 11/05 so folks on the internet can telnet into them (Nova - Basic, 8/s - whatever looks the coolest, PDP 11/05 - RT11 with MBASIC, maybe a 11/34). Hopefully some folks will appricate logging into the systems and playing with them. john > >Err, isn't that part of the fun of running old computers. If you want a >machine that powers up first time, you probably don't want to be running >some strange 1970's box :-). > >Seriously, though, most of my machines are pretty relaible. Yes, I do get >failures. And I know that sometimes when I turn them on, it's not going >to work. That's why I have a pile of service manuals, schematics, tools, >test gear, etc. But 95%+ of the time, things work. > >One thing is, I do do a bit of PM. Not in the field service sense of >changing the filters once a month. But in the sense of checking PSU >voltages, fan operation, cleaning connectors, etc from time to time. I >generally completely strip any machine that I get and check for problems >(power connections hanging on 1 or 2 strands are common, and cause all >sorts of problems). Then every so often I stick a voltmeter on the PSU >outputs, just to check. > >I don't get that many failures. Oh, the odd chip fails, the odd dry joint >opens (more often in new stuff, actually). But not that often. > >-tony >

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

RT-11 Freeware CD now available!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Hi Folks, You might remember me, I've been maintaining the PDP-11 freeware archives at ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/ for the past decade, and I posted a few months ago saying that I was beta-testing some CD copies of the archives. Well, the beta-testing is done, I've run off the first batch of "production" RT-11 CD-R's, and they're now available for sale. I'm hooked up as a "zShop" through Amazon.com, and you can order the RT-11 CD through this link: http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y03Y5462567Y2843157/002… For a link that's a little easier to remember, and which is hooked to the above page, try this: http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html I think the Amazon.com "zShop" concept is really pretty nifty, and if you order through there with your credit card shipment is almost immediate. If you prefer to order directly from me, that's also possible; email me at "shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com" with your name and shipping address, and I'll hold a copy until your payment ($15.00+$1.50 shipping for US addresses, or $4.50 for airmail delivery to international addresses) arrives. At this moment, the only way to pay with credit card is through Amazon.com. At the moment, there are 30 CD's ready to ship; if these quickly sell out, I can run off additional copies as soon as this weekend. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com 7328 Bradley Blvd WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ Bethesda MD USA 20817 Voice: 301-767-5917 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Floppy disks again

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 13, 11:21, Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Yes, some people did call this QD, but > > it isn't a different density at all -- the misnomer comes from people who > > don't understand what the words mean. Your numbers for 180K, 360K, etc, > > Pete, since the term QD or Quad Density dates back to at least the North > Star Horizon, I would submit that it was not people who didn't > understand but rather who chose to ignore the real meaning and to use > the term as it was descriptive of the expanded disk capacity. I remember the use, but it's still a misnomer, and I'm not altogether convinced. Most non-N* people didn't call those disks QD, as far as I remember. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Collecting IBM Manuals

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

I was wondering if anyone else collects IBM Manuals. Since the early IBM XT's I have always been impressed with the excellent manuals that IBM produced for their personal computer series computers, and presently have about 20 manuals in my collection.. I have many of these manuals in my family room bookcase on display.. Excellent Binders in a standard Boxed/Sleeve cover.. Always looking for a DOS's that I don't already have.. I currently have in my collection. DOS's 2.00, 2.02, 2.10, 3.00, 3.20, 3.30 and 4.00 .. And even the IBM 3270 Emulator software.. In the early 1980's seem's everyone started making their manuals in the IBM format binders with Boxed Sleeves.. I also have a nice set of 4 manuals for the Packard Bell XT, looks like an IBM manual clone and very nicely done.. Most manuals after this era were just cheap paper bound.. Seems any manuals are just history now, with the advent of the CDROM... Phil..

26 years, 2 months

5
5
0 0

Desperate...Help...HP 9-track drive...

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

Hi all, Frustration! I just got around to trying to install the OS tapes for my HP3K...and the drive doesn't want to load anymore. I had originally tested it after assembling the HP-IB interface boards with a blank tape, and it loaded and found BOT just fine. Now that I finally get the OS tapes, it's stopped working... It's an HP 7974 with the hp-ib interface. I string the tape and push load, the tension arms engage, it spins, then the lcd reads "*F5" (or "*FS" - it's an lcd...) and eventually returns to "OK". But of course the tape's not loaded, and I have to manually push reset to get it to attempt loading again. Anyone have any ideas? The Big Question: Does anyone have any docs/printsets for this machine? I'd like to know more about the self-diagnostic functions and dip switch settings on the controller board. Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 2 months

5
5
0 0

pdp8/f

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

It's crazy. I can't believe what they are paying on EBay for less than *incomplete* systems. I could see $1400 with drives, running, tested, manuals, etc... but a shell?????? -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 11:30 PM Subject: Re: pdp8/f >At 10:50 PM 10/12/99 -0400, it was written wrote: >>That 8/e chasis went for $1300 this morning! > >Youch! Better go hide mine. I sit corrected. Maybe the 8/f is worth what >they want for it in ebay dollars. >--Chuck > > >

26 years, 2 months

8
16
0 0

Where and Where to get an IBM 1130

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/13/99 11:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca writes: > There's one in Paul Pierce's collection in Portland Oregon. > No, he won't part with it, I've already asked!! > I learned Fortran on that very machine in Paul Pierce's collection. When Clatsop Community College surplused it out in 1989 (after having it nearly 20 years) he outbid me in the sealed bid sale. It is going to be hard to find a 1130. You might try remote, poor community colleges. It was really designed as an engineering machine and pushed into business applications. Good luck. Paxton

26 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Desperate...Help...HP 9-track drive...

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

At 00:05 14-10-1999 -0700, you wrote: >One thing, the drive never really seems to *look* for the BOT marker. I >mean, pressing load causes the drive to immediately rewind a good 8"-1' of >tape and then stops there. Nothing else. Odd... Without being there, my next guess would be to unseat/reseat all the connectors, including circuit boards in edge connectors, and to press down on all chips that are not in high-rel (machined pin or 'Augat' style) sockets. I had odd problems with a Kennedy drive once that mysteriously vanished after I did that. >One thing I was wondering about is the small prism located on the media >side just above the BOT/EOT sensors...what's it's function? There doesn't >appear to be anything to it besides a small prism fixed into a metal >block. That may not be a prism. As I recall, HP used some sort of mineral blade as a tape cleaner. I'm thinking that's what you may be looking at. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Floppy disks again

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I wrote: > How is it possible that DD media could be of such > poor quality that it can't (reliably?) do 96 TPI, > while still being just fine at 48 TPI? To which Allison replied: ] ???? Nonsense question, no context. I have no difficulty ] nor is there any reason to expect difficulty with 96tpi DD ] ops. I have expereinced using formerly formatted media of ] 96 or 48TPI that REQUIRED bulk erasure to be usable. I believe ] that intertrack noise due to differnt track widths are why. ] I regurally use PC360k, Vt180, RX50 and Visual1050 media and they ] are 48 TS, 48 SS, 96ss, 96ss/TS all running at DD data rates. ...much more, deleted... Oh yeah, you can't read my mind. Guess I better include some context. I'm thinking of the 5.25" DS/DD floppy disks commonly used in PC's and formatted to hold 360K at 48TPI. I was recently discussing with someone whether or not they could be used as RX50's, which as you know have 96 tracks per inch, with each track having the same number of bits as in the PC 360K DS/DD format. Both are supposed to be 300 Oerstedts. But I think I remember hearing complaints that the not-so-high-quality DS/DD 360K floppy disks would not work okay with the higher number of tracks per inch. And I am sure I read something about the importance of these diskettes being "well honed" to be used as RX50's, with the assertion that not all 360K DS/DD disks are. (But "well honed" was left undefined, and I'd love to know what exactly was meant, as well as what physical property of those not-so-high-quality diskettes was causing them to fail.) Now I'm not talking about writing more on any one track. It might still be just exactly the same as the PC DS/DD format. And coercivity doesn't come into the picture, because we are talking about floppy drives that are made to work with 300 Oerstedt media, which those DS/DD disks are. I'm also not thinking of taking a diskette written by one drive and trying to read it in another. That can cause problems because 48TPI tracks might be twice as wide as those written in a 96TPI drive. Simple enough; no confusion. The point I'm after is about the limitation on how many tracks that disk can hold - does that limitation come from something about the diskette itself, or is it a property of the disk drive in which it is used? My thinking is that the media can handle >3000 magnetic transitions (bits) per inch, because it does that along each track. So that can't be the limiting factor that prevents you from fitting 96 tracks into one inch. I'm not concerned with the drive in which it is written; I only care about what the media could hold if I had a precise enough disk drive. Assuming that the magnetic granules in the oxide are not systematically shaped in any odd way, (not generally longer than they are wide, or wider than long), then the media itself should in principle be able to handle 3000 tracks per inch - just as many transitions moving outward from center as moving along a track. If the diskette itself was so crappy that it couldn't handle 96 magnetic transitions radially, then it should have no hope of being able to handle 3000/inch when writing a track, so it would also have no hope of being usable in the PC 360K 48TPI format. Conversely, if it could handle the 3000 transitions per inch of the PC 360K DS/DD format, then the media itself is already *much* better than necessary to handle 96TPI. So the limitation is in the drive, and not the diskette; and any old never-written (or properly bulk-erased) "PC 360K" diskette should be perfectly happy as an RX50. It just occurred to me that the recorded track must be more or less like a UPC bar code - the width of the track is very much greater than the length of a bit in the track; maybe more than 200 times greater. So say the track was a 1 meter wide sidewalk, the bits would each be 1m wide, but only 5mm long. So even a tiny twist in the read head would gum it up real good - it should be much more sensitive to this than to alignment. Move 1cm to the left, and you are still 99% on the sidewalk - no problem. But twist just one degree, and when your left side is at one bit, your right side is three bits ahead or behind - big trouble. Well, maybe the forces acting on the head are less likely to twist it than to shift it. Bill.

26 years, 2 months

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One more freebie...

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

I forgot to mention that I also have a Dell docking bar for older Dell notebooks that is a combination token ring adapter/scsi adapter. Model number is TR-APR. If anyone is running a token ring network and needs a docking bar...this is your lucky day. I've tested the SCSI adapter and it works fine with an external CD drive. I don't have token ring set up anywhere to test it, sorry. If possible, I'd like whomever takes it to actually have a Dell laptop, scsi peripherals, and ideally use it with a token ring network...not just take it because it's such a bargain... Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 2 months

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Desperate...Help...HP 9-track drive...

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

At 22:32 13-10-1999 -0700, you wrote: <snip> >I tried removing the interface cable and no-go. I'm not sure if you >remember, but when we dragged the beastie up to my house and tried to load >a tape, it took a couple of tries before it worked...ideas? Possibility: The emitter portion of the BOT/EOT sensor may have failed. I don't recall what 'F5' on the display means, but I'm pretty sure it's an error code. I seem to recall that the sensor on that drive used an infrared LED. There are two ways you can check if it's actually emitting (besides checking the voltage across it, of course). One is to look at it through almost any video camera/camcorder or digital camera. Such units are sensitive to IR emissions, and will show such as a bright white light in a monochrome viewfinder (I have no clue what it would look like with a color viewfinder). Second option is to pick up one of those little cards at Radio Shack that glows when exposed to IR emissions. It's billed as being a tester for TV remotes and such, but hey, IR is IR no matter how you look at it. Just my $.02 worth. Hi, John. I'm doing digital basics this quarter, and I think I've survived Boolean and Karnaugh Maps (whew!). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 2 months

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Where and Where to get an IBM 1130

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

Many schools used the IBM 1130 here in Ontario, Canada. I scrapped my IBM 1130 a few years ago as it was taking up too much room. :-(. Most schools shared one unit. The standard config in schools was: IBM 1130 IBM card sorter (really old) IBM manual card punch 2 automatic card punches (I think 8010s) 1 high speed L shaped card reader 1 band printer about 40 disk packs all original schematics and documentation When I got mine in 1986 it still used light bulbs for the front panel. Call the Public School Boards in Ontario and inquire about them. They may still have docs kicking around and possibly there is one in storage somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Where and Where to get an IBM 1130 >At , Randy M.Kaplan wrote: >>1. I have noticed in reading the list that individuals will come upon >>various machines in various places that are being retired. I also recently >>purchased a Sun IPC from ebay. When I went to pick it up, the fellow had a >>yard full of stuff he had apparently scarfed up from various companies. How >>does one find out about these sources? Who do you contact? > >Well a couple of things, if you start collecting old computers many sources >will find _you_. Unfortunately many of those sources will want you to take >75 80386SX computers off their hands not IBM 1130s. > >Look up scrap metal recycling in your yellow pages. These guys are sort of >the "sharks" of computer collecting, they devour things indiscriminately >but you can be a "trigger fish" and teach them the value of some machines. >A good relationship with a top tier scrapper is a really good thing to have. > >The scrappers watch the new paper for liquidation bids. Places that are >scrapping out entire buildings and such. Older and larger computers are >sometimes found in these liquidations because the buildings are abandoned >and the "big iron" in the machine room is just left there. (I "found" 1/2 >of a 370 that way once in a building that was for lease.) > >>2. I was wondering if anyone had any notion of where I might look for an IBM >>1130 or is this a totally ridiculous pursuit. When I started out, this was >>the first machine I wrote Fortran programs for. > >The 1130 is not an easy machine to find. You will have several sources >(ranked from most likely to least likely): > 1) Another collector who can't afford the space any more > and wants to keep the machine in the hands of a caretaker. > 2) Some place that had to keep software for it running and > kept one around as a "gold standard." > 3) A scrapper who hasn't had the heart to crush it yet. > 4) IBM (who might have one in a warehouse somewhere for > some reason) > >Its certainly a worthwhile pursuit. > >--Chuck > >

26 years, 2 months

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EMULEX MD-23

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: This is one of a very small number of SCSI bridge controllers that can handle 24Mhz ESDI drives. Does anyone have the docs for this? I need to know at least what the DIP switches do; I've figured out the addressing part, but I need to know if the sectoring can be adjusted, if it needs hard or soft sectoring, if the SCSI parity can be set, etc. Any info would be seriously appreciated. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 2 months

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I have a M7295 free for the taking (Massbus Control RH11)

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

untested as I never have had a MASSBUS unit. Just email daniel(a)internet.look.ca -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 12:07 AM Subject: Re: Floppy disks again >On Oct 13, 8:34, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > >> I know when NS* offered >> the DD controller one option was 96tpi twosided drives and it was called >> quad density as it was 800k and the same controller single density on >> a 35track single sided (the introductory format) was a whopping 90k! > >I remember *them* well. And I remember the awe at getting Apple DOS 3.3 >140K on the same drive (well, same SS 35 tracks, anyway). > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York >

26 years, 2 months

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Floppy disks again

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 13, 8:34, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > I know when NS* offered > the DD controller one option was 96tpi twosided drives and it was called > quad density as it was 800k and the same controller single density on > a 35track single sided (the introductory format) was a whopping 90k! I remember *them* well. And I remember the awe at getting Apple DOS 3.3 140K on the same drive (well, same SS 35 tracks, anyway). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 2 months

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collectors vs. enthusiasts - I GOT ONE!!!!!

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 9:52 PM Subject: Re: collectors vs. enthusiasts >I wrote: >> <rant> >> That's because eBay is where "collectors" hang out. Not people like >> us, for whom collector is an insufficient/inaccurate term. > >"George Currie" <g(a)kurico.com> >> Whereas I agree that there is a differentiation between the >> "collector" and the "enthusiast", I must take umbrage to the ,again, >> generalization of the person who pays "too much" on ebay >> automatically being "collector assholes, just because he had deep >> pockets". > >I don't believe I said anything of the sort. I said that "collectors" >hang out on eBay, but I never said that enthusiasts don't. > >> Are you implying that one must be of modest means to be an >> "enthusiast". > >No, I didn't. I've seen enthusiasts pay enormous amounts of money >for certain items. I've done it myself. What I object to is having >to do it because some non-enthusiast asshole has more dollars than >sense. More about this later. My friend... That is what auctions are all about.. and it's not limited to computers. When I was 17 I was at the Interhauler Yauht backruptsy auction. They had an IBM mainframe and a mini. As the mini was old I was hoping to pick it up for $100 (I was a student). I placed a bid of $50. when all of a sudden the owner from "Kitchens Construction" thinks the machine can be used and placed a bid of $500! I did not have $500 on me.... he was arrogant about the win of his auction... smiled at me and left the room. Little did he know the next auction was for the DISKPACKS for *his* computer. I bought them for $60. I went out to him RIGHT after he won the auction and asked him if he won the bid on the computer. He smurked at me and said "Of Course". I told him (and I can remember my exact words): "Good, I just bought all the software for YOUR computer so I guess you WON'T be using it". His face dropped! He looked down and walked over to the auctioneer to complain. When he couldn't get his way he came over to me and asked me what I was going to do with them. I told him I had a PDP 11 and was going to FORMAT the platters and use them on my system. I knew who he was, I let him stu all night and called him the next day. He bought the diskpacks without the case for $750! > >> If you saw a rare whatnot that you had always loved >> and wanted to tinker with, and had the financial means to acquire >> it, would you let it go to the scrap because you thought the asking >> price was too high? > >No. But I still might complain about the price. > >> Would you let it go to a "collector asshole" >> because you thought the asking price was too high? > >Yes, if the "asking price" was "too high". "Too high" is a >subjective measure. I never buy ANYTHING that I think is priced >"too high". Of course, tommorow's value of "too high" may be >different from today's. > >> Now of course, there are people who would purchase something >> simply for the "coolness" of having it. > >Those are the people that buy perfectly good, working core memory >planes, and destroy them to make wall hangings. Those are the >people for whom I believe there should be a special place reserved >in hell. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. > >> I fully understand the frustration, but venting it by making >> generalizations of those who happen to be better financially >> equipped than you, or are just willing to pay more for something >> than you, is just immature. > >If complaining about life's injustices is immature, then I'm >immature. But then, so's most everyone else I know. > >In fact, aren't you complaining about me based on some generalization >you've made regarding me? Sounds immature to me. :-) > >> Call the guy who purchased an Altair for $2K an >> asshole/loser collector/not worthy, > >Depends on why he purchased it. Maybe he is, maybe not. But I've >had personal experiences with people who I *KNOW* were just >"collectors" and had no interest in machines other than because >they are "collectable". I.e., they had no experience with the >particular machine, and no real interest in learning about it. >If you don't think those people are assholes, fine. I do. > >Others suggested distinguishing between people who view collecting >as an "investment", vs. people who collect for completeness. I >don't see that as being nearly as useful a distinction, because >there are two kinds of people who collect for completeness. Using >the Atari 8-bit example: > >1) People who want every last Atari model and peripheral because > they actually like and care about Ataris. That still maps to > my "enthusiast" category. > >2) People who want every last Atari model and peripheral because they > happen to think they are collectable, even though they have no real > personal interest in Atari stuff. And they don't really care > whether the machine is in working order, or about keeping it that > way if it is. They may or may not think it is an investment. Yes, > I've met people like that. And that's who I was referring to as a > "collector". Yes, I consider those people to be assholes. That's > my opinion, and I'm not trying to force it on anyone else. > >Obviously I should be more precise in my terminology: I divide people >buying old computers into "enthusiasts" (who might be collectors) and >"non-enthusiast collectors" (who may or may not be "investors"). The >fact that some collectors are also enthusiasts does not make me like the >"non-enthusiast collectors". > >Eric >

26 years, 2 months

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