- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Data I/O programmers (was Re: EPROM sideline)

by mranalog＠home.com

Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > --- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > > "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: > > > The OLD Pre-Unisite (model 2900 ??) programmer from DataI/O... > > > > You're thinking of the model 29 (and 29B). They've been out of support > > for quite some time, and they recently removed the last technical info > > (such as family and part codes) from their web site. > > Does anyone have this info? I have an old programmer under the bench that > I have check, but ISTR that it's a model 29. As I started reading this thread, I went up to the Data I/O file download area and realized in horror that those family and part codes text files were gone! (The "old" directory under ftp://ftp.data-io.com/dataio/device.lst is gone) Someone should host these files! I started searching my hard drive and some backup CDs for files with "22" in them. And I did find the family and part codes text file for the "Series 22/A", but I could swear that I also downloaded a zipped file of all of the old programmer support files from the Data I/O site. I just can't what it might have been named. Can anyone convince me that I'm not just imagining this? And Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com said: > I've just bought an old Data i/o series 22 programmer but it lacks a manual. > Data i/o have indeed removed all tech support for older models from their > website. Does anyone know an alternative site still offering manuals? I have a couple Series 22 programmers (and a optional RS-232 paper tape reader, built-in UV eraser,and 351A-064 socket adapter for those little PROMs like the 82S123 :). And I also have a manual, contact me at dcoward(a)pressstart.com. Or if you're already famillar with operating the Series 22, I could just scan the little "flip book" operator's manual. I have flip books for the 22B (What is the 22B?), Series 22, and the 29B. I don't have a regular manual for my 29B. One of these days I need to create a cheat sheet for operating the Series 22 because every time I need to use it, I spend half an hour in the manual (especially to set-up remote operation with a PC). --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

26 years, 3 months

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schottky diode again..

by jpero＠cgocable.net

Sheesh, that topic wandered off the diode discussion! Snip! The important thing I wanted to hear about is how schottky diodes reacts if good and what it's like when bad or sick on a DMM with different resistance scale settings used, diode test also seems says "good" but I know it's very low current also low voltage so that would usually not screen out sick diodes. That why I used resistance ranges just to be sure. Yes, I pull diodes and transistors out for checks to be sure. Ingore the battery thing please. I'm more concerned getting the notebook going. Thanks. Wizard

26 years, 3 months

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Info about Alpha Micro 1021, HP terminal, 8" floppy

by amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

Don't know about the 1021, but I've got an Alpha Micro 1042E. Got it from an automotive parts business that used it for inventory and order desk: it's got a raft of RS-232 ports on the back to timeshare an office full of terminals. The 1042E is an S-100 box (but BIG enough to hold its 8" Winchester) with a 68K cpu card and an unusual tape backup interface card (it uses a modified videocassette recorder). So I suspect it would be worth digging inside to see if the 1021 is likewise S-100. The operating system is AMOS which is somewhat like DEC's RT-11. I don't have any documentation. I can't figure out how to get code into it: it has no floppy drive. Maybe Alpha Micro distributed everything on videotape (charging extra for New Releases or Oscar winners?). > -----Original Message----- > From: McFadden, Mike [SMTP:mmcfadden@cmh.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 10:17 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Info about Alpha Micro 1021, HP terminal, 8" floppy > > Any info on these mature computer components? > > I was looking in a stack of pallet sized boxes at the local computer > surplus and I came across a Alpha Micro 1021 computer. It appears to be > about 2' by 2' by 1.5' with a series of DB25 connectors on the back. I > couldn't move the top box to gain access to the lower box. I couldn't see > much more than the exterior. > <snip> -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada voice (613) 763-2568 fax (613) 763-9344

26 years, 3 months

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Apple ][ + but no Floppies

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

On 11/02/99 22:59:13 you wrote: > >> I just managed to get control of the machine while checking out a "Games" >> disk and I now have DOS 3.3 >> >> How can I transfer the Binary files (non basic) to my newly formatted disk. >> All it has is a HELLO basic program. (like INTBASIC and FPBASIC and D800 >Do you actually have INTBASIC and FPBASIC files on a disk? If so, then you >probably have the DOS 3.3 System Master disk, which comes with a handy >file-copying program called FID. > >There is also a COPYA program which copies entire disks -- that may come in >handy as well. > >-- Derek > drats I don't have either of those...they weren't on the games disk. :^( (missing out on all the prommise of my powerful new Apple][+ )

26 years, 3 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, I don't know what instructions were used to move the SA1004 contents to the BBRAMDISK, but it didn't take long to write in MBASIC and compile with BASCOM. It was pretty similar to the formatter, since that was written the same way. The odd thing was, since I wrote a lot of assembler back then, the ASM version of that program, or of the formater, for that matter, was not noticeably faster than the BASCOM version. Both were probably being held up by the drive. Nowadays, the 8MB ramdisk would be dirt simple, using one simm and one CPLD, and a small one at that. There was, by the way, an outfit nearby, which produced, among other things, a 10MB RAMDRIVE for the TI-PC. That product was interfaced via SCSI and was moveable between systems. It must have lived on a battery as well. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 6:53 AM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon >> I even have a 32K card with battery backup on board. I also built a RAMDISK >> with a battery backup so I could dump an entire SA1004 to it in one stroke >> and keep it alive with a couple of motorcycle-battery sized gel cells and a >> major DC-DC converter. I built one for a business partner and hooked up >> solar cells and one of those adjustable DC-DC converters (one of the old, >> Old, OLD Boschert adjustable open-frame types) to bring the 60 Vdc or so >> down to 14Volts and another to build the 5 Volts from that. > >At the time I did the RomDisk I also did a ramdisk (io port addressable) >not unlike the Compupro Mdrive. the difference was I used Mixmos static >ram and used 4 AA (500mah) nicads to keep it alive for up to 100hours. >Total ram was 128k. A later design used 2kx8 EEPROM and Cmos static rams >for 128k for each "drive". > >I also have two BPK72 bubble memories (128kb each). > >My current project is a dual semiconductor disk for S100 use 1mb or >flashram and 8mb of Dram battery backed up. Both addressable Via port >addresses (uses otir/inir to read write blocks). With current 1mb 30 pin >simms and FPGAs it's not a dense board. I used 1mb 30 pin as I can get >then for near nothing. Whats nice wth that config is I can preload it >and then plug it into another system and read/write it easily. > >Allison >

26 years, 3 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

I did some similar fooling around by populating an SRAM card with battery-backed rams. It wasn't worth it at the time, though. I even have a 32K card with battery backup on board. I also built a RAMDISK with a battery backup so I could dump an entire SA1004 to it in one stroke and keep it alive with a couple of motorcycle-battery sized gel cells and a major DC-DC converter. I built one for a business partner and hooked up solar cells and one of those adjustable DC-DC converters (one of the old, Old, OLD Boschert adjustable open-frame types) to bring the 60 Vdc or so down to 14Volts and another to build the 5 Volts from that. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 6:48 PM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon ><Nowadays, it's really tempting to use an EPROM or Battery-Backed SRAM to ><hold the entire CP/M CCP, BDOS, and BIOS, and let the warm boot reload the ><CCP from there. That would certainly make the control-c quicker. > >Nowadays! I did this back in early 81 using 2732s. I put a monitor, bios, >ZCPR2 and BDOS in that. The CCP and BDOS only eats 5.5k. It was set up >rather odd as the system runs from a small 2716 at cold boot with a monitor >and then by user command loads the 8k image into ram from IO addressed >"romdisk". The CTRL-C was very fast as it could do INIR copies from the >rom. A later version still running is 256k of eprom (27512s) had all of >cpm, loader, ASM, VEDIT, SID (and more). This version the boot EEprom >is at 0000 and is truncated bdos, bios and a loader. This was done so that >I could have it load CPM.SYS image for testing from the selected drive >including the ROMDISK. This is raw speed. > >Allison > >

26 years, 3 months

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Nx 586

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

Someone here is selling Nexgen 586 CPU/Board sets. I was thinking of investing in one because I've never seen one before. Were there many made? Not classic I know, but maybe more obsolete than some 10 year old computers perhaps? Hans

26 years, 3 months

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Help: Identify DEC/Dilog Modules

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>1. I have a M7133 Unibus 11/24 CPU. As it's a single card CPU, does it >still need a custom backplane, or is this a leter model CPU that can fit >in a standard SU or something like that? It needs a special backplane. M7133 in slot 1, M7134 (MMU) slot 2, Slot 3 to 6 are modified for 22 bit memory. Slot 7 starts the regular UNIBUS IIRC. I have a few if you want me to check the DD #. Dan

26 years, 3 months

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HP-HIL keyboard/mouse

by spc＠armigeron.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 745 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991028/34a52f6c/at…

26 years, 4 months

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Apple ][ + but no Floppies

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

I just managed to get control of the machine while checking out a "Games" disk and I now have DOS 3.3 How can I transfer the Binary files (non basic) to my newly formatted disk. All it has is a HELLO basic program. (like INTBASIC and FPBASIC and D800 (?)) Thanks All.

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's about the price range I remember too. OTOH, I used to get the Integrand box and, separately of course, the CCS CPU, CCS 64K DRAM board, and CCS FDC for about $980. Two of the Misubishi MB2894 (?) DSDD 8" drives cost $780, though, and the system still needed a dumb terminal. For that I normally used a Televideo 920, or, later, 910. Those also cost about $750 back then. It wasn't cheap, no matter how you turned it. With that combination, I was able to put out a computer system which had a decent display, decent performance, and generally acceptable storage for around $3k with a few bucks in my pocket if I shopped carefully. It was easier, of course, if the client already had some stuff, like a printer and a terminal. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bob Stek <bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 7:19 PM Subject: RE: Northstar Horizon >Define late entry. The N* Product Catalog I have in front of me is dated >January, 1978 and it says: > >"North Star Computers ... was incorporated in June, 1976. ...North Star now >offers a complete S-100 bus computer." > >I'd have to dig out more definitive references, but it seems likely that the >Horizon was first offered in 1977. The price at the time was $1599 (kit) or >$1899 (assembled) for the Horizon 12-slot motherboard with built in serial >port (additional serial or parallel port was $39), RTC, chassis and cover, >15A @ 8v, 6A @+/- 16v power supply, with 4 MHz Z-80, 16k RAM, disk >controller, and one Shugart minifloppy. (A second Shugart was $400!) The >CPU board listed for $199, and the 16K RAM for $399 - parity option was $39 >(I remember reading warnings about using dynamic RAM w/o parity 'cause stray >cosmic rays were likely to corrupt your memory at admittedly infrequent >times!) > >Bob Stek >bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com >Saver of Lost SOLs > >-----Original Message----- >From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu >[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher >Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:29 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon > > >The N* Horizon was a late entry in the S-100 market, and, though it was >priced competitively with CROMEMCO and VECTOR GRAPHICS systems, it didn't >come in at a lower price than component systems using boards purchased >individually based on comparison-shopping for the best price/function >tradeoff. >

26 years, 4 months

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Classic Computer Hardware & Software - Sealed Bid Auction

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I recently moved, and the living room of the old house is currently filled to the walls with stuff I regrettably can't bring along (go figure - 3 times the square footage plus a barn and a garage I didn't have before), so I'm hoping you guys will help me find new homes for it. To see pictures and descriptions, go to the following URL. It will take a few minutes because there are a number of items and the pictures are not small. http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer-sale.htm This will be conducted as a sealed-bid auction. High bidder takes the item. Bid by e-mailing your bid (minimum of $10 on each item, please) to bill_r(a)inetnebr.com (that's bill(underscore)r). Please include the item number, description, your bid amount, and your e-mail and snail-mail address and telephone number in each bid. Bids will be accepted through November 30th, 1999, although some items may close early if I receive what I feel is a reasonable offer and/or have not seen much interest in an item. In addition to the amount stated in the bid, the high bidder also agrees to pay actual packing and shipping costs, and insurance if desired, or to arrange to pick the item(s) up in Lincoln, Nebraska. Seller reserves the right to withdraw items from or add items to the auction at any time. Payment by cashier's check or money order will result in faster shipment. Payment by personal check will delay shipment until the check clears. All items are AS-IS, and no guarantee of any kind is made with regard to operability, suitability for application, safety, or completeness. Descriptions are as honest and accurate as possible; if you have specific questions about an item and are serious about placing a bid, please e-mail me at the above address and I'll try to provide additional information. This is all stuff I've collected over the years and no longer have room to keep - I'd rather not get rid of it, but at least I'd like to see it go to someone who will enjoy it and appreciate it. -Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.

26 years, 4 months

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VMS architects

by mbg＠world.std.com

>But the survivors get to write the history. "There Ain't No Such Thing = >As Justice." -- Larry Niven Sorry... the Nivenisms are: TANJ - "There Ain't No Justice" TANSTAAFL - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 4 months

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Help with (Obsolete computers--a paper)

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I've seen newspaper articles and such on this topic online but don't know if they're still out there or even where they were. Can any of you here help him out with some links or such? Respond directy to him at the address in the message. Thanks. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: GEngel039(a)aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:06:59 EST Subject: Re: Obsolete computers--a paper To: dlw(a)trailingedge.com Hi, thanks for responding! I am taking an introductory computer class, and need to do a two page paper and a 5 minute speech. We get to choose the subject. Basically, I am looking for brief information, such as environmental hazzards posed by discarded computers, perhaps an estimate of the number of computers being disposed of daily (monthly, yearly-basically I need one estimate to work with), what can be done with these "obsolete" computers to keep them from ending up in landfills (I noticed you were working with this), etc. I'm not looking for you to give me the information, I don't mind doing the research myself, as I find this an interesting topic. I just need maybe a few websites that may be able to help me. I appreciate any help you may be able to give me in steering me in the right direction. Thank you! Damon -----------End of Message------------------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

The N* Horizon was a late entry in the S-100 market, and, though it was priced competitively with CROMEMCO and VECTOR GRAPHICS systems, it didn't come in at a lower price than component systems using boards purchased individually based on comparison-shopping for the best price/function tradeoff. As I mentioned previously, I used the SD Systems or CCS boards. Both of these CPU's included an on-board serial port which was used by the firmware as the console port. What's more, their FDC's handled both drive sizes, albeit in soft-sectored format only, straight out of the box. I don't remember the details of the comparison shopping ventures, but would not have used individually chosen boards or, in the case of CCS, board sets, if there were no price advantage. The CCS board set was always quite trouble-free, and the SD Systems memory boards were the only boards of theirs that ever gave me headaches, though that was seldom. The N* didn't work well with KONAN (SMD) or MSC HDC's either. I didn't investigate this full, however. It didn't work, well, on to the next one. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon >On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> Yes, there were several ways in which the N* could be modified to work >> better and meet the target of providing a full 64K TPA and handling CP/M >> standard diskettes. >> >> The easiest way, however, was to use hardware from other MFG's, which didn't >> require modification. It happens that hardware from other MFG's was less >> costly as well. > >Well in 1978 (early) that was not the case, sure there were lots of >players and junk but the minifloppy was still quite new and people were >not quite able to get clear of sticker shock for 32k of ram! > >The NS* was a good cpu, good box (backplane and basic serial/parallel IO) >That for the price was good. There were other boxes, but the really nice >stuff I lusted for were appearing in the early 80s. By then the NS* was >hard at work (with upgrades). > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

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A sad day for DPT...

by bruce.a.lane＠boeing.com

Heck, a sad day for storage overall! Adaptec has swallowed up yet another customer-friendly SCSI adapter maker. See: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-1425979.html?tag=st.ne.1002.thed.1003-2 00-1425979 While not directly related to classic computing, I know a lot of us use more modern systems for numerous duties, and I know I can't be the only one using DPT's 'legacy' products from the early 90's. Anyone care to wager what Adaptec will do to DPT's well-stocked FTP site, or their support of said legacy gear? Adaptec, from what I can see, is getting dangerously close to turning into the Micro$haft of the SCSI adapter world. (Kai, if you're reading this... I'm sorry. I know you work for MS, and I want you to know that I don't hold it against you in any way, but I think everyone on the list knows how I feel about Billy-boy and his Evil Empire). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- NOTE: The views expressed are mine alone, and do NOT necessarily represent the views of the Boeing Company, its management or employees. Bruce Lane, Boeing Aircraft & Missiles, PWSSG Computing DC Campus, 9-98.2, Col. N11 (206) 655-8996 laneb(a)bcstec.ca.boeing.com OR http://bcstec.ca.boeing.com/~laneb

26 years, 4 months

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Today's toy -- Hayes Chrono!

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I just got my hands on a Hayes Chronograph. No box, but complete with wall wart, and manuals. It's fatter than I thought that it would be -- about 2x the size of a standard Hayse stack modem. It has a calibration port on the back, as well as a write-protect switch. It works great! The time is wrong, but it works! Rich [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <---------------------------- reply separator

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Nowadays, it's really tempting to use an EPROM or Battery-Backed SRAM to <hold the entire CP/M CCP, BDOS, and BIOS, and let the warm boot reload the <CCP from there. That would certainly make the control-c quicker. Nowadays! I did this back in early 81 using 2732s. I put a monitor, bios, ZCPR2 and BDOS in that. The CCP and BDOS only eats 5.5k. It was set up rather odd as the system runs from a small 2716 at cold boot with a monitor and then by user command loads the 8k image into ram from IO addressed "romdisk". The CTRL-C was very fast as it could do INIR copies from the rom. A later version still running is 256k of eprom (27512s) had all of cpm, loader, ASM, VEDIT, SID (and more). This version the boot EEprom is at 0000 and is truncated bdos, bios and a loader. This was done so that I could have it load CPM.SYS image for testing from the selected drive including the ROMDISK. This is raw speed. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have never seen a Z-80A system that needed DMA for disk I/O. The require <loop is simple enough to synchronize using the nWAIT line. The CCS and SD <FDC's both did PIO, and since the OS didn't have anything better to do <during disk I/O, the wasted CPU cycles, if there were any, were going to b <wasted anyway. Well I have several. What is the cpu doing? Running CPM and more. The cycles it would ahve been doing PIO are now, supporting interrupts real time, printer buffering and disk caching for the disk (hard and floppy). Keep in mind CPM didn't rule out much so background tasks and even multiprocessing were possible with CP/M-80 with a few minor limitations. The big thing that annoyed me to the max with many of the boxen of the time was that go to the disk ment stop typing and compared to my PDP8, PDP-11 experience this was stupid. PIO at 4mhz really limited the number of interrupts yu could take while servicing a DD floppy (worst case a byte every 27uS) or DD 8" (worst case a byte EVERY 13uS). Sure you could sync a z80 to that but it was pretty much dead waiting for a sector to come around. DMA was a solution, that and use of interrupts (mode 2) made for a much smoother system that felt smoother and faster to the user. It was particulary noticeable for apps that either ran overlays or like VEDIT virtualized the file on the disk. <few locations of memory as opposed to a large (2K) refresh buffer in the <already small memory map. It's just that N* (and VECTOR) were not among <them. NS* didn't do a video board. Many people used a VDM-1 in it or the VectorGrapahic card. In 1978 a ADM1A was ~$800, good TTY $400, VDM1 $199 (if I remember right). The SD systems board was better and looked more like a parallel device. <stated. I would not, however, pretend that the CCS or SDS stuff I liked t <use was enough "better" that anyone would be making a mistake to use it. I thought they were pretty neat too. thats why in '96 I got two CCS systems complete and running! Allison

26 years, 4 months

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S-100 phantom (Was: RE: Northstar Horizon)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> So My Compupro RAM16 (64k static) in the NS* (system A) has all banks <> enabled and if we hit e800H the FDC forces phantom/ and the ram16 is <> deselected for that address. < <Ah... I see... Now, the 4FDC does not have any connection to <pin 67, so it is not using phantom. But it should be easy to <implement... Can I just take the /CS (-NOT- chip select) pin <from the 2708 and wire it to 67? Maybe I need to -NOT- it first? You could but it would be bad juju. the normal drive for phantom/ is either an open collector driver (7406, 7438) or maybe a driver like 74126, 241, 244... to be active only when active low. Also you don't want that phantom/ going low from some other card from asserting CS/ on the 4fdc. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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subscribe

by jallain＠databaseamerica.com

26 years, 4 months

1
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Data I/O programmers (was Re: EPROM sideline)

by amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [SMTP:ethan_dicks@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 3:00 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Data I/O programmers (was Re: EPROM sideline) > > > > --- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > > "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: > > > The OLD Pre-Unisite (model 2900 ??) programmer from DataI/O... > > > > You're thinking of the model 29 (and 29B). They've been out of support > > for quite some time, and they recently removed the last technical info > > (such as family and part codes) from their web site. > > Does anyone have this info? I have an old programmer under the bench that > I've just bought an old Data i/o series 22 programmer but it lacks a manual. Data i/o have indeed removed all tech support for older models from their website. Does anyone know an alternative site still offering manuals? -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada voice (613) 763-2568 fax (613) 763-9344

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

Phantom was a common signal, but it really didn't take long before many vendors were simply copying the EPROM into memory, with a flipflop that enable the EPROM simply toggling off when the most significant location in the EPROM was accessed. That way it didn't matter much whether you had PHANTOM implemented or not. The EPROM was generally not enabled for a WRITE to memory, regardless of where it was writing, so copying the EPROM into RAM was pretty straightforward. The only thing PHANTOM had to do was disable the RAM board's output buffers, and it was common enough that it generated a wait-state or two as well, since the EPROMS were pretty slow. Nowadays, it's really tempting to use an EPROM or Battery-Backed SRAM to hold the entire CP/M CCP, BDOS, and BIOS, and let the warm boot reload the CCP from there. That would certainly make the control-c quicker. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon >> > My solution was far more reasonable. Map it <VDM1> at 4000h and set a bit >> > to enable it (small hack). That way it used no TPA space and was still >> > faster than using a TTY. I later set up one of the NS* controllers that >> > way for a full 64k space. Of course I had to write my own drivers but it >> > was pretty trivial. >> >> And hack the RAM board to be disabled when the VDM1 is enabled? > >Ah, ever hear of phantom... part of the MDS-A and VDM IO hack was to set >them up to output Phantom, in both cases it was just a jumper required. >The disable was simpler, MDS-A has a rarely used sector interupt enable >latch and the VDM used a bunch of bits for windowshading, something I >considered useless and removed from the board (a few socket level jumpers) >and I had the bit I needed for enable. If they were enabled phantom was >generated, if they were not ram was there. > >Allison > >

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

I have never seen a Z-80A system that needed DMA for disk I/O. The required loop is simple enough to synchronize using the nWAIT line. The CCS and SDS FDC's both did PIO, and since the OS didn't have anything better to do during disk I/O, the wasted CPU cycles, if there were any, were going to be wasted anyway. In any case, there were a few video boards, notably the one from SDS, which didn't chew up a bunch of memory space. There were some which only used a few locations of memory as opposed to a large (2K) refresh buffer in the already small memory map. It's just that N* (and VECTOR) were not among them. What's better is not so easy to establish anyway, since what's better to one person may not be at all acceptable to another. The N* Horizon was a pretty popular product. I didn't like it because of the reasons I've already stated. I would not, however, pretend that the CCS or SDS stuff I liked to use was enough "better" that anyone would be making a mistake to use it. What persuaded me, however, was that the price of the CCS or SDS stuff was lower overall. What's more, I liked the MSC9391 HDC, which was too tall to fit in most boxes the size of the N* Horizon, including, by the way, the Altair and IMSAI. Those Integrand boxes with drive power and lodging built into the box that powered and housed the backplane were pretty decent, though, and they'd hold the double-high card from MSC. There was even enough room for an extra Power-One PSU (+12, +5) for the HDD so it worked out for my needs. That was another factor which drove me in a direction away from the prepackaged systems. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon >On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> That was my point, exactly. One shouldn't have to hack a new machine in >> order to make it what one wants. That's doubly true when you can buy what >> you want for less and not have to hack it. > > >Well since the bus was not very standard, and the industry evolving... > >The key was what was better, and at the time I did my thing better was a >limited choice. A year maybe two that choice was far greater but some of >the fundimental design issues I was really taking aim at were not being >solved except by a limted few. IE: spinning in PIO to do disk IO to me >was plain dumb. CPU cycles were in my eyes being wasted. I really didn't >care if it was memory mapped or IO mapped realative to that waste of CPU >as a resource. In 1977 I wanted reliability NS* had it. In 1979 I wanted >storage space and more speed and I started working on it. The DMA (of >smart) boards I wanted however were still wanting or way out of line for >quite a while. > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

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Classified Vintage

by sring＠uslink.net

sRING Does anyone know some really good classified ad sites for vintage computers?

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

The same thing was "wrong" (meaning that it irritated me and offended my sense of how things should be) as with the N*, in that they used memory space I wanted to use. Consequently, I never seriously used, nor did I ever promote them. It was no big deal, but at the time I thought that it was. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon >At 10:52 PM 10/31/99 -0700, Richard wrote: >>There certainly were a few vendors whose systems were as much off-center as >>the N*. Just take a look at Vector Graphics' systems, for example. I once >>owned a couple of those, with their memory-mapped video refresh memory. > >What was wrong with their "flashwriter", at least for that time, late >1970's? It was very similar to the Processor Tech's "VDM", and cost a whole >lot less than a text VDU. You could move its location in memory if desired, >but had to have matching drivers. >-Dave >

26 years, 4 months

4
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Quote nitpick [WAS: Re: VMS architects]

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: Marc Hustvedt <mhustved(a)umich.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Re: VMS architects < much snipped > > Cutler wasn't the only key person behind VMS; the other was Dick Hustvedt, > who was evenrtually injured in a traffic accident pulling out from DEC's > driveway onto Spit Brook Road and ended up on permanent disability with > short-term memory loss. A friend in the VMS group said that Hustvedt, not > Cutler, was responsible for much more of the tricky, nifty stuff in VMS. > But the survivors get to write the history. > "There Ain't No Such Thing As Justice." -- Larry Niven I think you're confusing : TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - Robert Heinlein? with TANJ - There Ain't No Justice - Larry Niven, "The Long ARM of Gil Hamilton" Mark.

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

That was my point, exactly. One shouldn't have to hack a new machine in order to make it what one wants. That's doubly true when you can buy what you want for less and not have to hack it. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon >Allison wrote: >> My solution was far more reasonable. Map it <VDM1> at 4000h and set a bit >> to enable it (small hack). That way it used no TPA space and was still >> faster than using a TTY. I later set up one of the NS* controllers that >> way for a full 64k space. Of course I had to write my own drivers but it >> was pretty trivial. > >And hack the RAM board to be disabled when the VDM1 is enabled?

26 years, 4 months

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VMS architects

by mhustved＠umich.edu

OZIX was the operating system for PRISM, one of several 32-bit RISC architectures that DEC was developing at one point. When it was canned, Dave Cutler once again threatened to walk, and DEC took him up on it. Anyway, later, DEC was anxious to get Windows/NT for Alpha, and so signed an agreement before they saw the code that everything in there belonged to Microsoft and that they had no claim to it. Afterwards, some people still at DEC pointed out that their initials were still there in the edit history and that they'd been had. Cutler was quoted in some article as saying that DEC could have had it but now they'll have to pay to get it. Bill Gates was reportedly pretty upset when he saw that article. (There are also stories about Windows/NT device drivers; if you want drivers for hardware you're selling to be included on the NT distribution, you have to sign over *all* rights to the driver code to Microsoft. I don't know if any hardware manufacturers consider their drivers to contain code which gives them a competitive advantage over other hardware manufacturers; if there are, they have a tough choice.) But IMHO, without Microsoft behind it, the operating system would not have gotten too far beyond the VMS market anyway. And it gave DEC leverage to get Microsoft to support Alpha and outsource some support work to DEC. The system services (the layer under the Windows API) are a whole lot like VMS. That makes the WNT ones a lot easier to use for those who used the VMS ones. When the C++ standards committee started up, Windows/NT wasn't announced yet. Microsoft's rep was insistent that exceptions be resumable, as they are in VMS. I had fun (seriously, for some reason I enjoyed it) taking the position that VMS did it that way but C++ shouldn't. (I had tried to use VMS exceptions in a VLSI CAD application and it was a major pain. I tried prototyping the same thing in C++ and it looked like a pain on paper. And it turned out that they only important places they were used in VMS were printing messages with context information [and a subroutine could walk up the stack to do that] and returning to the debugger [and a subroutine could do that, although there might be some protection ring stuff to finagle too]. Plus, POSIX Threads - descended from DECthreads - had chosen the non-resumable model, and so my orders were to try to get C++ to follow suit. The interested can see Bjarne Stroustrup's "acorn book" for an account of the others who opposed resumable exceptions on the grounds of more extensive usage in real projects (incl. TI, Xerox). Cutler wasn't the only key person behind VMS; the other was Dick Hustvedt, who was evenrtually injured in a traffic accident pulling out from DEC's driveway onto Spit Brook Road and ended up on permanent disability with short-term memory loss. A friend in the VMS group said that Hustvedt, not Cutler, was responsible for much more of the tricky, nifty stuff in VMS. But the survivors get to write the history. "There Ain't No Such Thing As Justice." -- Larry Niven

26 years, 4 months

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Data I/O programmers (was Re: EPROM sideline)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: > > The OLD Pre-Unisite (model 2900 ??) programmer from DataI/O... > > You're thinking of the model 29 (and 29B). They've been out of support > for quite some time, and they recently removed the last technical info > (such as family and part codes) from their web site. Does anyone have this info? I have an old programmer under the bench that I have check, but ISTR that it's a model 29. It was purchased in the early 1980's to program 6309 256x8 PROMS (the same kind that are on the Apple ][ disk card) for an early MC68K design. I got it over 5 years ago to support those very same cards but have never used it. For my typical EPROM stuff, I have a PeeCee-based programmer with a 40-pin socket in a D-to-A box that programs most stuff up to 1Mbit, both logic and memory devices. I use it to blow GALs for my Amiga product. To solve the data-in problem, I've got the programmer in a Commodore Colt w/8003 NIC and I use Kermit over TCP/IP to move data in and out. It's not as portable as an integrated ROM blaster would be, but it works great for me. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM sideline

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's why I recommended the moderate "hack" that amounts to building a circuit with cheap and available substitute(s) and make adapter cable(s) to the various place(s) where such substitution will be needed. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 11:50 AM Subject: Re: EPROM sideline >"Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: >> The OLD Pre-Unisite (model 2900 ??) programmer from DataI/O was what I used >> many years ago to program both the 5203 and the 1702. Surely they haven't >> entirely skipped those in the course of moving to the UniSit?, or have they? > >You're thinking of the model 29 (and 29B). They've been out of support >for quite some time, and they recently removed the last technical info >(such as family and part codes) from their web site. > >> Unfortunately not. The UniSite is a good machine, and since it's >> pin-driver technology could probably be made to do it, but Data I/O never >> developed an algorithm for the 1700 series parts that I'm aware of. > >I'd be *very* surprised if the pin drivers came anywhere close to being >able to suport the 1702 or 5203, or some of the very early exotic >PROMs. The Unisite was designed to support mainstream parts being >produced in the mid 80s, none of which required voltages above 25V or >below ground. > >A friend just picked up a Unisite for $200. I've been looking for a good >deal on one for 13 years, but I don't ever seem to find them. The closest >I got was about four years ago; AT&T capital was selling one for $800 >and I might have been willing to buy, except that it had already sold >the day before. Sigh. > >Data I/O recently (within the last few years) started putting some kind >of 80 MB removable data storage device (disk? flash?) in their model 2900 >and 3900 programmers. When will they get a clue and put a friggin >Ethernet interface on them? Geting bits into the programmer has always >been their weak point. Their async serial ports are too slow (even >at 115.2 Kbps) for dealing with modern EPROMs and flash parts. On the >models with floppy drives, you'd think that sticking in a floppy with the >data would be fast, but no, they've managed to make that ridiculously >slow as well. Maybe they think this will get customers to buy more >programmers from them: "Hmmm... for this product I'll need to burn >sets of eight 32-megabit flash parts for each version of the software. >It will take three hours each for the download. I can spend three work >days for each version, or buy eight 2900s and do it all in three hours." >On the other hand, Hanlon's razor says "never ascribe to malice that which >can be adequately explained by stupidity."

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM sideline

by edick＠idcomm.com

The OLD Pre-Unisite (model 2900 ??) programmer from DataI/O was what I used many years ago to program both the 5203 and the 1702. Surely they haven't entirely skipped those in the course of moving to the UniSit?, or have they? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 11:09 PM Subject: Re: EPROM sideline >At 18:39 01-11-1999, Dave Dameron wrote: > >>Can you program 1702A's? > > Unfortunately not. The UniSite is a good machine, and since it's >pin-driver technology could probably be made to do it, but Data I/O never >developed an algorithm for the 1700 series parts that I'm aware of. > >>How about the similar National part 5203? Both are >>256 Byte EPROM's. There was also a Motorola part, 6834(?). > > Neither one is listed on my device chart, so I would have to say no. Sorry >about that. The problem is that Data I/O keeps information about how to >actually program the UniSite's innards a closely-guarded secret, so I have >no way to even try to cobble something together. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our >own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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S-100 phantom (Was: RE: Northstar Horizon)

by edick＠idcomm.com

It might work better if you use an unused gate or some such. Phantom often has numerous loads on it, so you could consider a pair of OC gates if they're available. Otherwise, a SCHOTTKY diode should suffice, since its forward voltage isn't enough to confuse any other device into missing the LOW on the PHANTOM line. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 3:06 PM Subject: RE: S-100 phantom (Was: RE: Northstar Horizon) >> > So My Compupro RAM16 (64k static) in the NS* (system A) has all banks >> > enabled and if we hit e800H the FDC forces phantom/ and the ram16 is >> > deselected for that address. >> >> Ah... I see... Now, the 4FDC does not have any connection to >> pin 67, so it is not using phantom. But it should be easy to >> implement... Can I just take the /CS (-NOT- chip select) pin >> from the 2708 and wire it to 67? Maybe I need to -NOT- it first? > >Exercising a little more brain power, I see I'll need to put a >diode in there to keep someone elses phantom from activating this >PROM.

26 years, 4 months

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Info about Alpha Micro 1021, HP terminal, 8" floppy

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Any info on these mature computer components? I was looking in a stack of pallet sized boxes at the local computer surplus and I came across a Alpha Micro 1021 computer. It appears to be about 2' by 2' by 1.5' with a series of DB25 connectors on the back. I couldn't move the top box to gain access to the lower box. I couldn't see much more than the exterior. An adjacent box had a Black Box brand case in it with two drives inside one 8" and one 5 1/4". They look like they have a ribbon connector interface to a computer. Another box had a HP 2392A terminal inside. All of these boxes are covered with dirt and crud, I hope no bird droppings, toxoplasmosis is not a disease I want to catch. I may have to take 4-5 hours and dig through all of the boxes to see what's inside. Kind of like looking for buried treasure, lots of dirt and crud before you find the gold. Maybe the smart choice is to offer $20 for the lot, I think they send all of the non PC stuff to China. Any information would be appreciated. If I don't want/need them maybe someone else does. We can work out shipping. Mike McFadden mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

Yes, there were several ways in which the N* could be modified to work better and meet the target of providing a full 64K TPA and handling CP/M standard diskettes. The easiest way, however, was to use hardware from other MFG's, which didn't require modification. It happens that hardware from other MFG's was less costly as well. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 6:22 AM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon >> The same thing was "wrong" (meaning that it irritated me and offended my >> sense of how things should be) as with the N*, in that they used memory >> space I wanted to use. Consequently, I never seriously used, nor did I ever >> promote them. It was no big deal, but at the time I thought that it was. > >My solution was far more reasonable. Map it <VDM1> at 4000h and set a bit >to enable it (small hack). That way it used no TPA space and was still >faster than using a TTY. I later set up one of the NS* controllers that >way for a full 64k space. Of course I had to write my own drivers but it >was pretty trivial. > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

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To give away leading edge-computer/monitor and printer

by chrish＠kootenay.net

Hey Guys(and Gals) Before it gors to the dumpster anybody want a leading edge model DC-2011 computer w/leading edge model DR-1240 mono monitor and a OKIDATA model U-92 MICROLINE printer will giveaway as one unit or in peices for the cost of shipping or will get parts and boards out of the computer if you want comes with a seagate HD not sure how big. If interested please respond thanx for the use of the bandwith :) Chris Halarewich In Castlegar BC, Canada

26 years, 4 months

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FW: Help.. AcerAnyWare 386S laptop system disk

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Now THIS qualifies as 'classic...' Found on Usenet. Anyone have the system disk he's looking for? If so, I bet he'd be Really Happy to hear from you. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 2 Nov 1999 03:47:43 GMT, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: >>From: "Thomas" <thomas_job(a)hotmail.com> >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc >>Subject: Help.. AcerAnyWare 386S laptop system disk >>Date: 2 Nov 1999 03:47:43 GMT >>Organization: VSNL >>Lines: 4 >>Message-ID: <01bf2486$9fd1af00$2a4836ca(a)dtevsnl.net.in.vsnl.net.in> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp72-42.pppcal.vsnl.net.in >>X-Trace: news.vsnl.net.in 941514463 19081 202.54.72.42 (2 Nov 1999 03:47:43 GMT) >>X-Complaints-To: postmaster(a)news.vsnl.net.in >>NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Nov 1999 03:47:43 GMT >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 >>Path: news1.jps.net!news-west.eli.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.vsnl.net.in!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:405 >> >>Hello... >>Pl. help me if you have the system disk of old AcerAnyWare 386S laptop. >> >>Thanks.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM issues, who can burn?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/31/99 9:19:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikeford(a)socal.rr.com writes: > > Heresy beyond heresy I would actually like to see people with eprom burners > be able to make a few bucks by burning the eproms. I think it would make a > DANDY little web business. Now obviously the database and the burning > businesses need to be completely separate, people would be all over us if > we "sold" burnt eproms, but what would be wrong with burning customer > supplied data and printing a label with supplied text? i could burn/read eproms with my BAL500 card that's in my apple ][+ if someone can tell me how to use it... DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM sideline

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . the 6834, IIRC, was a two-ported RAM plus some I/O. Its features were designed into the MC68121, which was a 6803 with the two-ported RAM and I/O built in. It was not, to the best of my recollection, available in an EPROM version. The 5203's were really tricky to progam, but they were pretty! I made several into jewelry. I did that with a couple of 1702's also, and an i8008, having plucked them directly from working applications. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 6:54 PM Subject: Re: EPROM sideline >At 06:50 AM 11/1/99 -0800, Bruce wrote: > >> <snip> >> >> <snickering> >> >> Dave, take a look at www.bluefeathertech.com/devices.html >> >> I'm way ahead of you. I've only had a few jobs along those lines >but I've. > >Hi Bruce, >Can you program 1702A's? How about the similar National part 5203? Both are >256 Byte EPROM's. There was also a Motorola part, 6834(?). >-Dave >

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM issues, who can burn?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I agree on both points, but if the cable is not longer than a foot or so, it's likely to work fine. Certainly it's likely that one could figure out a better way, on a case-by-case basis, but I just wanted to throw a very general solution at the problem, one which everyone would easily understand. It won't be hard to improve on that one. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 3:11 PM Subject: Re: EPROM issues, who can burn? >> >> I agree, mostly, with what you've said here, Tony. The easy fix, in many >> cases will be to program the code into several larger but readily available >> and easily programmed parts, then wire an adapter from the target board's >> socket to the physical EPROM on the board on which the EPROM resides, with a >> pair of appropriately sized IDC ribbon cable headers crimped on the ends of >> the cable. That should work, even if you have to hang the adapter board > >I'd be a little careful about hanging lengths of ribbon cable off an >EPROM socket (the signals on which may well not be buffered). I am not >saying it won't work -- many times it will, but I'd not do it unless >necessary. > >Many times there's enough space around the EPROM socket and/or between >the boards in the cardcage to allow for a simpler replacement method. The >fact that most EPROM pinouts are similar helps here. Tricks include : > >1) Bending out those pins of the EPROM that are different (high-order >address lines, for example), plugging the rest into the socket and >soldering wires to the ones you've bent out > >2) Replacing the socket on the board with a wire-wrap socket. Wrap wires >around the pins that are different, and cut those pins short. Then solder >the remaining pins to the board so that the 'different' ones don't touch >the tracks (the socket is probably about 0.5" above the board). Solder >the ends of the wires to appropriate points. Insert the EPROM. > >3) Make an adapter. In the UK you can get pin strips designed to plug >into turned pin IC sockets. What I normally do is replace the EPROM >socket on the PCB with a turned-pin one of the same size. Then take a >piece of stripboard and solder a socket for the new EPROM to it (cutting >the tracks down the middle). Then solder pin strips to the track-side of >the stripboard with one spare hole between the socket pins and the pin >strips. Then cut tracks for the pins you don't want to connect straight, >and then solder wires (wire-wrap wire is good for this) on the track side >of the stripboard to make the necessary connections. Plug the adapter >into the socket on the PCB and plug the EPROM into the socket on the adapter. > >4) Ditto, but etch a PCB rather than using stripboard. > >5) Read the tech manual for the machine (!). It's not uncommon for >machines that use mask-programmed ROMs to have some way of using EPROMs >instead. There may be links for this on the board, for example. > >> from a hanger in the rack. Packaging problems are what the REAL engineers >> work hardest at, while the youngsters conjure up the fancy circuits. This >> is mostly a packaging problem. The higher speeds of today's common and >> cheap parts will compensate for the few nanoseconds lost in cables, even if >> some form of termination has to be introduced. > >I'd be more worried about the stray capacitance and noise pickup from the >ribbon cable than the delay it introduces. > >-tony >

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM issues, who can burn?

by edick＠idcomm.com

The reality of this quandary is that the answer lies not in the legality of copying the EPROMs, but in the likelihood of getting caught. Now, an EPROM burner for 2716's is DIRT SIMPLE to make, and the same goes for most of the 28-pin parts, and I might guess it's true of the 32-pin parts as well. The 1702's, 2708's, and others of that ilk (mainly due to the multiple power supplies) might cause minor problems. Those however, can be dealt with in a number of creative ways. 1) if the goal is to have an "authentic" system, one has to have the authentic EPROMs with the binary images in them. The spec's for programming pre-32-pin eproms were not kept secret. 2) if the goal is simply to have a working system, there are several ways to get around the ancient EPROM oddities. All of these involve wiring and maybe even soldering something. The easiest of them, however, is to build an adapter board with the binary images residing in battery backed rams intended for substitution for EPROMs, and a simple programmer for them for those situations when things go wrong. 3) Now comes the hard part . . . You have to choose. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: EPROM issues, who can burn? >> > Ahhhhh... now THAT might get me around the copyright issues! Set it up >> > such that only the folks who own equipment that can use the images can get >> > to it... >> >> Well, certainly those folks would be entitled to a copy of what they >> have already, and it shouldn't be of much value to others. > >The time when that's not strictly true is when machines came with >optional EPROMs... > >The classic case is the BBC micro. It has 4 (IIRC) 'sideways ROM >sockets', one of which is normally filled by the BASIC ROM, and there are >add-on cards to provide more such sockets. > >Various companies (Acorn and others) sold software (disk filing systems >-- like DOSes, languages, applications, etc) in EPROMs to go into these >sockets. And while all BBC owners will have had the Acorn MOS (Machine >Operating System) ROM and BBC BASIC, the same is certainly not true of >all this other software. > >Practically, I suspect that a lot of this software is of little >commercial value today, but it is still copyrighted, and can't be just >stuck on a web site. > >-tony >

26 years, 4 months

3
5
0 0

Vax 3100 Runs good (fwd)

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

If interested, please reply directly to the original sender. Reply-to: nwhite(a)stern.nyu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:19:46 -0500 From: "Norman H. White" <nwhite(a)stern.nyu.edu> Subject: Vax 3100 Runs good I have a Vax 3100 workstation that still runs, I hate to trash it and am looking for somone to take it off my hands. It is running VMS 5.1 and has 3 internal 100MB hard drives, a CDROM, an external TK50 and a 1 gigabyte scsi drive. Interested? --- Sellam International Man of Intrique and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Amdek Color 1 monitor

by rolney＠thegrid.net

I have two Amdek Color 1 monitors and need a schematic diagram in order to service them. Can you help? Ron Olney rolney(a)thegrid.net

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

EPROM issues, who can burn?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I agree, mostly, with what you've said here, Tony. The easy fix, in many cases will be to program the code into several larger but readily available and easily programmed parts, then wire an adapter from the target board's socket to the physical EPROM on the board on which the EPROM resides, with a pair of appropriately sized IDC ribbon cable headers crimped on the ends of the cable. That should work, even if you have to hang the adapter board >from a hanger in the rack. Packaging problems are what the REAL engineers work hardest at, while the youngsters conjure up the fancy circuits. This is mostly a packaging problem. The higher speeds of today's common and cheap parts will compensate for the few nanoseconds lost in cables, even if some form of termination has to be introduced. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 1:50 PM Subject: Re: EPROM issues, who can burn? >> Thats simple, if emulation will make you happy, why stop at the eproms, >> just run one of the emulators for the whole system on your PC. My goal is > >Oh, come on, there's a heck of a difference between replacing an EPROM >with a more modern (and larger) one containing the same code and running >an emulator for the entire machine on a PC. Well, certainly to a hardware >hacker there's a difference :-) > >> to get old systems running at a low cost, and I think that means original >> or functional equivalent parts. > >Ah, but the modern/larger EPROM _is_ a functional equivalent part. > >Yes, obviously you use the original type of EPROM if at all possible. But >if you _can't_ get the part, then it makes a lot of sense to use (say) a >2764 with the same code in it. > >A secondary issue occurs when the original part was a mask-programmed >ROM. They can fail as well... Or you might want to make some changes to >the code. In that case you virtually have to use an EPROM and make an >adapter. > >> >> >> > >-tony >

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

RANT about ADAPTEC (was A sad day for DPT...)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've got to disagree with the remark that "Adaptec stuff works." I participated in a year-long beta test of some of their CD authoring software four or five years back, and found, (1) they didn't care whether their doc's were synchronized with their software, often leaving out key words like "not" and equally key words and phrases, and (2) the happily made claims, both oral and written, which not only they, but anyone who understood the technology, knew were totally false and would not and could not be made true by technological innovation anytime soon. They happily ship software which can't possibly achieve what they claim to be routine. I remember that, shortly before the release of their PCI SCSI adapters, they claimed to be able to effect sustained transfers of 80MB/sec via their 2940. While I completely agreed that that was a theoretical figure, obtainable in bursts, perhaps, I challenged them to prepare a demo in which one of their 2940's effected data transfers both in and out of a PC at that rate, or even half that rate for a relatively short test, say 100 hours without losing data in vast quantity. The problem, of course, is that a claim of this sort is simply useless, since it assumes that the SCSI channel gets all the bandwidth and the rest of the system gets none. Keep in mind, BTW, that at that time, (1994-95) the PC was not looking at 133 MHz PCI rates. Adaptec, for years, shipped a series of ISA-Bus controllers, the 15xx series, which worked VERY well. Their BIOS was a mite weak, perhaps, but the things did work, day in and day out, and I still use them in my home-office Network Server. I've had one running for nearly eight years without a hitch in that box. The only problem I ever had with it was that the power supply failed. That was probably because their BIOS wasn't smart enough to spin the drives up one at a time as they presently do. The 450-watt PSU probably wasn't comfortable with all the load on +12 while they spun up. Once they went to PCI, their advertisement, always a mite "over the line" as far as I'm concerned, their claims being a little too good to be realistic, even in the days of the 1542. Once they determined that Trantor had a few good products, particularly in their firmware, and in their Parallel<=>SCSI port adapters, they bought them up. A couple of years back, I tested a number of these products, finding that, not only did their AHA358 fail in every test to equal their previous AHA348 (a Trantor design) but it failed in every way to match the performance they claimed. I look for them to buy up the BELKIN Parallel<=>SCSI before long, since it works so much better than their own. It gets better performance on my Toshiba notebook than their PC-card (AHA1460) does and holds its own in the WINBOOK. When ADAPTEC found that NCR/Symbios was producing cheaper PCI adapters, not to mention lots of ISA versions, they quickly bought them up. Now all that remained was the RAID market and you see what they've done there. I guess the only thing to do is buy shares in MYLEX. When NT4 was released, ADAPTEC didn't have NT drivers for their multi-port PCI boards. They claimed to have RAID support, but had no NT Drivers for their 3940 (dial-port) or 398x (triple-port) boards. After a while, a driver popped up for the 3940, but I still haven't managed to get mine to work properly in a fully loaded box. It does work (mostly) in a meagerly equipped system like a server, though, so that's fine. I don't worry about the 398x series any more. Observation has taught me that their tech support is intended to "get rid of" customer complaints, not to rectify them and it's also taught me to monitor on-line refunds from them VERY closely. They still owe me for a defectively designed device I returned to them back in '95 and the freight, which was charged to me. <end of RANT> ...sigh... Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 12:51 PM Subject: Re: A sad day for DPT... >> While not directly related to classic computing, I know a lot of us use >>more modern systems for numerous duties, and I know I can't be the only one >>using DPT's 'legacy' products from the early 90's. Anyone care to wager >>what Adaptec will do to DPT's well-stocked FTP site, or their support of >>said legacy gear? > >Go to the front of the ftp and select download site. Wait to find out what >will happen at your own peril. > >BTW Adaptec is certainly interested in profit, but they otherwise seem a >far cry from MS, Adaptec stuff works. > >

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Apple ][ + but no Floppies

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

On 10/31/99 18:35:52 you wrote: >Most likely a generous soul will step forward and offer a set for postage. >I hope to one day have all my stuff set up so that i could easily answer >just such a request myself. I wonder if any of those disks (system esp.) and manual are copyright and if Apple cares. Anyone know if Apple still can provide? > >OTOH you know a lot of the old software doesn't need another floppy with >DOS etc. on it to run. You boot from the "game" disc and its all on that >disc. The system discs are for utilities, formatting new floppies, etc. I have found 1 game disk that will boot the machine and play several "Racing" games but I also don't have paddles (pinouts and parts anyone???) aren't paddles just 100ohm pots? I want to do some programming in BASIC on a simpler machine than my laptop. I have an emulator too is there a way to copy the images from the emulator to the real machine? Thanks all! ron

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

There certainly were a few vendors whose systems were as much off-center as the N*. Just take a look at Vector Graphics' systems, for example. I once owned a couple of those, with their memory-mapped video refresh memory. They were another box which didn't have enough TPA to run the output generated from, say, the MT+ Pascal compiler in a unit with a contiguous 64k RAM. As I wrote before, the problems went away with the later releases of various compilers, but while prejudices are easy to acquire, they're difficult to eliminate. N* had their own version of a DOS, IIRC, and perhaps that's what made their management believe they didn't need to offer an efficient and CP/M-compatible product. Myself, I could never recommend a system which didn't read/write the standard distribution media for is native OS. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 8:51 PM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon ><Well . . . here we go . . . the fact that N* memory mapped their FDC was on ><thing that clearly would fall in the MISTAKE category. What the reason fo ><the existence of the smaller TPA resulting from memory mapping anything is > >the TPA bit was something I could care less about. The memory mapped >design was functional, not pretty. Of course the first controller I'd >built was IOmapped not for more space but because it was easier to decode >8bits rather than 16. Was it the right way for them, not really but it >worked. there were plenty of other memory mapped designs that were not >nearly as nice. It's the way it was right or wrong. So happens I have >two and one replaced my altair. It was a damm sight better and reliable >depite two lightiing hits. The only design fault I sought to fix was >the lack of storage denisty, 80k per drive was far from enough. The later >controller and software was an improvement but hard sector was a problem >as it was not even remotely portable. The processor card and the IO on >the backplane was however very nicely done. Like many I used third party >ram mostly because I'd alreay had 32k of SEALS 8k static from the altair. >I still do not ahve NS* ram for the odler box, I'd put in a Compupro >Ram-16 back in '84 to get rid of the six 8k static and a 16k static. >Such is the evolution of just one system. > ><of no relevance. It was a justification for SOME of us, me included, to ><draw a line through their products whenever they appeared in a list. Of ><course their price would have been another. > >It was their price that made them attractive. Least on the east coast. >Some systems like CCS I'd never seen until a few years ago. Others were >a bit rich price wise or questionable vendors. > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

My new toys: Apollo and Osborne 1

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

red bear said: >> (tony said) >> >> I know that some cards will work in both the Apollo and normal PCs.. > >Tony, you've hit the nail on the head. The Apollo ISA bus is a real ISA >bus. Oh frabjous day! :-) >However, most ISA cards will not work in the machine for one of a number >of reasons: *snip* ROM incompatibility, *snip* OS support, > >Theoretically it would be possible to make any arbitrary ISA card work in >an Apollo if one were to write his own device drivers and software to use >that driver. This driver would have to use no calls at all to the BIOS Ingo Cyliax built a 68030 workstation, and he wrote the drivers for (a specific) VGA and IDE. Also, Linux has drivers for PC cards, and doesn't use the ROMS. That's why I asked if it would be sacrilige for me to rip out (and keep safely, of course) the drives and display cards, etc. I've since learned that the BIOS contains a monitor, so no hassles there. Of course, the first thing I did (before powering up the machine) was to copy the EPROMS (27256 for 3000, 27512 for 3500). I'll put it up for ftp sometime. (My ftp philosophy is, if the owner complains, I'll take it down immediately) >The /ASE has floppy, ESDI, and SCSI interfaces. Don't expect to be able to >boot the Apollo from a SCSI disk, or even to use one at all unless you are The FAQ sez that the SCSI interface doesn't support disks at all. But I hope to boot from the tape... I mean, I don't have any floppies, 'smatter fact, the "server" (3500) has the tape and the "workstation" has the floppy. W

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

My new toys: Apollo and Osborne 1

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

Wouter de Waal wrote: >The 3500 has the following: > >9988 rev 3 memory card (no idea of it's size) >3com ethernet card >9016 (RGB video adaptor) >WD7000 scsi/hdd controller The WD7000 is an ESDI controller >tape drive >unknown > >Unfortunately I don't have the RGB cable or the monitor. > >Questions: > >* Can I use the mono display adaptor in the 3500? Can I run one > of these boxen without a display card, or do they check like > peecees? > >* How ISA compatible is the ISA bus? Can I stick a VGA card in > there and expect it to work (OK, I know I'll have to write > the code (port the VGA BIOS) but I mean electrically? Or > an IDE controller? > The bus is completely incompatible with the PC ISA bus. Nothing is likely to work. >* Where can I find memory maps, circuit diagrams, whatever? > >* How rare are these beasts? I gather they're common? Any > objections to me ripping out all the cards and the boot > rom, sticking vmebug in the socket, and an IDE drive in > the bay, and playing with the thing? > I have one I found complete in a dumpster. There were many color monitors with it but I only took one because they are so huge. It didn't have a monitor cable with it but I have one from a Decstation that works OK. They run a unique OS called Domain which I don't have. Mine has a 300meg ESDI drive and a tape drive. I've had mine up as far as looking for something to boot from. Hans

26 years, 4 months

9
13
0 0

A sad day for DPT...

by edick＠idcomm.com

It won't be long before it comes down to MYLEX, whose raid products work, and ADAPTEC, whose raid products don't. Of course, the DPT controllers worked and that didn't keep adaptec from buying them up, and Symbios/NCR controllers worked fine, yet ADAPTEC bought them up. Wouldn't it be cheaper for ADAPTEC to make products that work instead up buying the companies that do that? Once upon a time, ADAPTEC made really good products. I know, I have some of them still working, e.g. 1542A boards, 1522, 1510's. All my 2940's are broken, and my 3940 only "sorta" works. Now, I set up DPT and MYLEX raid interface hardware at my ISP a couple of years back, and it hasn't hiccupped even once. That's half a dozen servers with a combined storage volume of over a TB, all RAID-5 . . . Too bad . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <bruce.a.lane(a)boeing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 10:46 AM Subject: A sad day for DPT... > Heck, a sad day for storage overall! Adaptec has swallowed up yet another >customer-friendly SCSI adapter maker. See: > >http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-1425979.html?tag=st.ne.1002.thed.1003- 2 >00-1425979 > > While not directly related to classic computing, I know a lot of us use >more modern systems for numerous duties, and I know I can't be the only one >using DPT's 'legacy' products from the early 90's. Anyone care to wager >what Adaptec will do to DPT's well-stocked FTP site, or their support of >said legacy gear? > > Adaptec, from what I can see, is getting dangerously close to turning into >the Micro$haft of the SCSI adapter world. > > (Kai, if you're reading this... I'm sorry. I know you work for MS, and I >want you to know that I don't hold it against you in any way, but I think >everyone on the list knows how I feel about Billy-boy and his Evil Empire). > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >NOTE: The views expressed are mine alone, and do NOT necessarily represent >the views of the Boeing Company, its management or employees. >Bruce Lane, Boeing Aircraft & Missiles, PWSSG Computing >DC Campus, 9-98.2, Col. N11 (206) 655-8996 >laneb(a)bcstec.ca.boeing.com OR http://bcstec.ca.boeing.com/~laneb >

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

EPROM issues, who can burn?

by edick＠idcomm.com

Now, I didn't say anything about simulation. I suggested a couple of ways of making hardware which emulates the "real McCoy" in that it plugs something other than the original MFG's proms into the sockets. How you get there, or how you proceed afterward is not defined. True, if a simulation hosted on another machine satisfies you, the job is trivial by comparison with getting the old dinosaur to breathe. It's all a question of what it takes to trip your trigger. The fact remains, however, that one could either install copied EPROMs into the sockets, or, in those cases where the EPROMS are no longer readily available, build some sort of hardware-compatible substitute. I merely suggested that one form of HARDWARE emulation, which is more than just substitution of one piece of hardware for another, might be to use those "smart-socket" parts from Dallas Semi and stuff them with RAM which could be written in some way as yet TBD prior to their installation. I've got some UK-made 15-year old 2kx8 battery-powered RAMs which still work. They're an option, though there are others which are somewhat less bulky. The latter substitution seems to me to be a far cry from simulation on a different computer. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 2:29 AM Subject: Re: EPROM issues, who can burn? >>1) if the goal is to have an "authentic" system, one has to have the >>authentic EPROMs with the binary images in them. The spec's for programming >>pre-32-pin eproms were not kept secret. >> >>2) if the goal is simply to have a working system, there are several ways to >>get around the ancient EPROM oddities. All of these involve wiring and >>maybe even soldering something. The easiest of them, however, is to build >>an adapter board with the binary images residing in battery backed rams >>intended for substitution for EPROMs, and a simple programmer for them for >>those situations when things go wrong. >> >>3) Now comes the hard part . . . You have to choose. > >Thats simple, if emulation will make you happy, why stop at the eproms, >just run one of the emulators for the whole system on your PC. My goal is >to get old systems running at a low cost, and I think that means original >or functional equivalent parts. > >

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Apple ][ + but no Floppies

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/1/99 10:09:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com writes: > On 10/31/99 18:35:52 you wrote: > >Most likely a generous soul will step forward and offer a set for postage. > >I hope to one day have all my stuff set up so that i could easily answer > >just such a request myself. > I wonder if any of those disks (system esp.) and manual are copyright and > if Apple cares. Anyone know if Apple still can provide? > > > >OTOH you know a lot of the old software doesn't need another floppy with > >DOS etc. on it to run. You boot from the "game" disc and its all on that > >disc. The system discs are for utilities, formatting new floppies, etc. > > I have found 1 game disk that will boot the machine and play several > "Racing" games but I also don't have paddles (pinouts and parts anyone???) > aren't paddles just 100ohm pots? > > I want to do some programming in BASIC on a simpler machine than my laptop. > I have an emulator too is there a way to copy the images from the emulator > to the real machine? > > Thanks all! contact me off list and i can set you and/or anyone up with apple disks. DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Apple ][ + but no Floppies

by edick＠idcomm.com

I think those paddles were 100 K-ohm pots! Be careful! Dick -----Original Message----- From: rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com <rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Apple ][ + but no Floppies >On 10/31/99 18:35:52 you wrote: >>Most likely a generous soul will step forward and offer a set for postage. >>I hope to one day have all my stuff set up so that i could easily answer >>just such a request myself. >I wonder if any of those disks (system esp.) and manual are copyright and >if Apple cares. Anyone know if Apple still can provide? >> >>OTOH you know a lot of the old software doesn't need another floppy with >>DOS etc. on it to run. You boot from the "game" disc and its all on that >>disc. The system discs are for utilities, formatting new floppies, etc. > >I have found 1 game disk that will boot the machine and play several >"Racing" games but I also don't have paddles (pinouts and parts anyone???) >aren't paddles just 100ohm pots? > >I want to do some programming in BASIC on a simpler machine than my laptop. >I have an emulator too is there a way to copy the images from the emulator >to the real machine? > >Thanks all! >ron >

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

My new toys: Apollo and Osborne 1

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

Hans said: >>WD7000 scsi/hdd controller > >The WD7000 is an ESDI controller As well as a SCSI controller for the tape drive. The controller in the 3000 is an OMTI-8, looks like MFM. >The bus is completely incompatible with the PC ISA bus. Nothing is likely to >work. Yikes! So why did they call it an ISA bus? Just to get my hopes up, I'm sure. >monitor cable with it but I have one from a Decstation that works OK. They >run a unique OS called Domain which I don't have. Mine has a 300meg ESDI I have some tapes, lessee, from the top of the box, 017062-001 Rev 00 CRTG_FTN_1 FTN V10.7 M/V10.7.MPX 013736 Rev 00 CRTG_PHIGS_1 PHIGS Ver 1.0 017287-001 Rev 00 CRTG_STD_SFW_1 System release ver SR10.2 017286-001 Rev 00 CRTG_SFW_BOOT_1 System release ver SR10.2 017287-003 Rev 00 CRTG_STD_SFW_3 System release ver SR10.2 017287-002 Rev 00 CRTG_STD_SFW_2 System release ver SR10.2 and third party, Auto-trol Technology CREATED JANUARY, 1989 Part No.: 100-74067-003 Rev.:00030B S7K ENCRYPTION KEY MEDIA, APL RELEASE 3.0 LMPI 0303 CARTRIDGE 1 OF 1 ECN: A4222 Wouter BTW, can someone please forward digest 940? Our upstream provider lost an argument with a bulldozer, line was down for most of two days...

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

test, don't read

by Bernhard.B.Wulf＠OPE.shell.com

Just a test. Mit freundlichem Gru? / Regards Bernhard Wulf Rhr-WTC

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Northstar Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well . . . here we go . . . the fact that N* memory mapped their FDC was on <thing that clearly would fall in the MISTAKE category. What the reason fo <the existence of the smaller TPA resulting from memory mapping anything is the TPA bit was something I could care less about. The memory mapped design was functional, not pretty. Of course the first controller I'd built was IOmapped not for more space but because it was easier to decode 8bits rather than 16. Was it the right way for them, not really but it worked. there were plenty of other memory mapped designs that were not nearly as nice. It's the way it was right or wrong. So happens I have two and one replaced my altair. It was a damm sight better and reliable depite two lightiing hits. The only design fault I sought to fix was the lack of storage denisty, 80k per drive was far from enough. The later controller and software was an improvement but hard sector was a problem as it was not even remotely portable. The processor card and the IO on the backplane was however very nicely done. Like many I used third party ram mostly because I'd alreay had 32k of SEALS 8k static from the altair. I still do not ahve NS* ram for the odler box, I'd put in a Compupro Ram-16 back in '84 to get rid of the six 8k static and a 16k static. Such is the evolution of just one system. <of no relevance. It was a justification for SOME of us, me included, to <draw a line through their products whenever they appeared in a list. Of <course their price would have been another. It was their price that made them attractive. Least on the east coast. Some systems like CCS I'd never seen until a few years ago. Others were a bit rich price wise or questionable vendors. Allison

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

EPROM issues, who can burn?

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

The only way I know to deal with it is to read and then forward the "archive" files to the owner or person that sent me the EPROM. I have a LABTOOL 48 here if anyone wants something read - and not just EPROM's. I have not purchased any adapters yet however. The data for what it will read is at http://209.24.23.113/products/alldevices.htm What they do with their archive is their business. If they want to forward back to me an image they want burned I can't keep track of all the different image files.:) Definately save all the EPROM's you come across for the above reasons. I never used to and now I regret it. I am having to scrounge all the time when I need one. >one thing I absolutely cannot deal with is a lawsuit! > Me either. Dan

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

TRW Report.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The peripherals were never expandable, although a couple of engineers <supposedly tried hacking a hard disk interface off the stacking connector <in the 11/150. (An IDE interface would be slick if someone could do <it). The easiest way is to tweek the 8085 for the IO and use the floppy disk or Tu58 connector as its a simple 8bit bidirectional parallel path. the IDE side would have to have local smarts added. If you want to expand it go qbus... Allison

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . here we go . . . the fact that N* memory mapped their FDC was one thing that clearly would fall in the MISTAKE category. What the reason for the existence of the smaller TPA resulting from memory mapping anything is of no relevance. It was a justification for SOME of us, me included, to draw a line through their products whenever they appeared in a list. Of course their price would have been another. Nevertheless, I ALWAYS noticed their ads in BYTE or KILLABROAD. They looked nice . . . kind-of like an ALTAIR or IMSAI, but without those annoying switches. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon > ><well, too, but rather that the N* environment is so limited, particularly i ><the Horizon with its 8K ROM space, that many compiled programs won't work > >There is only 2k of ram space (e800h to efffh) the upper 4k is usable. >This space is carved out by the memory mapped disk controller not the cpu >any other component. > ><because the TPA is too small. What's more, the FDC isn't capable using of ><CP/M-standard (IBM-3740, SSSD 8") diskettes. > >Typical TPA using a NS is 56k, though if you put the bios in the top 4k that >58k. > >ALL if that is ONLY if the NS* controller is used as the rest of the system >is not biased in any way by eprom/rom maps. > ><They're OK as a curiosity, but back in the lat '70's and early '80's, they ><were not well received because of the TPA and FDC issues mentioned above, ><and I warn everyone off them due to their resulting limitations. > >They were popular and widely used, thats why they are common. The greatest >featur of them at that time was they worked more so than most of the other >s100 gear. No if you want MMU equiped CPU and DMA controllers there were >few if any of those before the early 80s and the NS* is a 1977 machine. > >I have two, one running a MDS-A single density controller in the >configuration you'd find on in back in 1977 save for I have 3 half height >floppies where the 2 full height ones are and a half height (st225) hard >disk using a teltek controller on with a 52k tpa (the hard disk driver >eats 2k) and the second has a softsector controller of my design that is >62k tpa, the z80 is been modified (different crystal) for 8mhz and supports >a hard disk (also teltek controller). I consider them fine 4mhz z80 CPM >systems and they run everything. NS* dos is also ok and the hard sectored >(real NS* controller) runs UCSD Pascal P system as well (I have the original >NS* build I bought in 1978). > >As a collectors sytem or very exciting Z80 system these are not it. They >were too common for collectable and are only classic. As a really fancy >no holds z80 system again they were vanilla. They did get purchased in >gobs around '78-80 as business turnkey boxes as they were known to work and >most of the bad press they got was the shugat SA400 floppies (not rugged >drive!) and the 16K NS* ram was not so good (plenty of other ram cards >were substituted very successfully). > >You want a hot (s100) z80 system? Look at CCS, Compupro, Morrow, Vector >or one few get to see a full front pannel Ithica Intersystems. > >You want fast... Teltek or SDS single board s100, these were Z80 4/6/8mhz, >2 serial, parallel printer and FDC plus 128k ram on one card. > >The one system turned 21 this year! The other was a 1980 build. > >Rather than get into the S100 vs XXX bus... S100 was a really badly >designed bus (fell in to it would be the most kind) but it worked if >understood it's quirks. At early 80s the issue was cost and software >not the bus used anyway. > > >Allison > >

26 years, 4 months

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Apple ][ + but no Floppies

by edick＠idcomm.com

The easiest thing would be to get a serial card, right? I've got a box of Apple-][ stuff, prom programmers, serial boards, video cards, Z-80 boards, memory cards, FDC's of various sorts, and a wire-wrap card. So long as I have the ww-card, there's a chance of extracting useful work from it someday. If I find a duplicate DOS diskette or something, I could let you have it. Remind me in a couple of days, please, and I'll let you know what I've found. Unfortunately, I only saved one FDD, so I can't produce duplicates. Dick -----Original Message----- From: rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com <rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 5:30 PM Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies >Can anyone help me out I have a working apple ][ plus but no floppies with DOS or Prodos on them. >Also no serial port on the machine. > >Whats to do? > >Ron > >rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com >

26 years, 4 months

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Jacksonville Hamfest report

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Well I just returned from the Jacksonville Florida hamfest. It wasn't as big as I had been told it would be but I managed to score some NICE items. Here's the list of the major items: (1) Kontron Logic Analyzer, 150 Mhz, 64 channels. With a plug in 48 channel pattern generator and all the probes, grabbers, keyboard, etc. I only need a manual for it. Hint, Hint! (2) Radio Shack model 1 computer with an expansion/interface box by "Holmes". I don't know what's in the box but it looks like more memory along with a disk drive interface and printer interface. also two RS disk drives for it. (3) Another Radio Shack Model 1 computer. THIS ONE DOES NOT HAVE THE SEPARATE KEYPAD! (4) A disk drive for a RS color computer. (5) four large bags of data books. (6) A BT-970 computer and printer with disks. The owner is supposed to mail me the manuals. The BT-970 was built by Televideo for Bell Telephone (hence the "BT" nomenclature). It looks like one of the funky 970 termianls. The monitor is mounted in a yoke to the left of the case and it can swivel up and down. The case has two 5 1/4" disk drives. Both are mounted vertically, one above the other. It does run MS-DOS. I've never heard of one before, does anyone know any more about them?

26 years, 4 months

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TRW Report.

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well, as Marvin and Mike have said, it was pretty good day at TRW, tho really hot, like summer... I was not expecting to be working up such a sweat on Halloween. East-coast folks: nyaaah nyaaahh!!! ;} It seems it was 'freebie' day yesterday... my most striking gift was a large box of 3/4" U-matic video tapes (13 of them) put out by Digital, titled 'The VAX-11 Instruction Set' They are of course a a video tutorial on that subject. I popped the first one into the player last night and it put me straight to sleep... they are the typical mid-80s hideously boring industrial instruction format.. the graphics of a school film and voice-over by some un-inflected perfect-diction guy who pronounces mnemonic as 'newmunik'... but it is still a cool find. I think when DVD software gets a little cheaper it would be a good candidate for archival on that format. TO clarify Mike Ford's previous post... the DEC item in question was a PDT-11 (not PDP) with two other raw Shugart 8" drives. There were several other old PCs and some removable HD docking chassis, but I did rescue the PDT and now it lives here. Thanks Mike!! Another listmember delivered several boxes of Good Stuff to me, of interest to The List would be 2 VT-240s, a Wyse terminal, and a box of 5 1/4" floppies full of vintage PC software.. which I *think* Marvin stole from the back of my truck... better him than me. Mike sold me a rack-mount Pentium 133 machine which I plan to use as networking box to talk between my PDP-11s and uVAXs and the more modern world... oh goodie... another Project. Marvin, Mike Ford, Dave Dameron, Aaron Finney [+ three Child Processes he has spawned], and Elliot all came to visit.. several of us then went to Brunch, tho Mike and Dave got lost and Aaron was otherwise occupied [ ;) ] so Marvin and I just talked trash about you guys over chow. Some non-classiccmp friends of mine were there also, as I was sharing one of my spaces with our local Ham repeater group, so they could sell some jun^H^H^H^H 'Merchandise' and raise money for upgrades, which they did. All-in-all a very fun time in SoCal. --------------------------------------------- Questions for the List: Anyone ever use these instruction videos? I'm interested in your opinions if you remember the tapes at all. I recall a thread or two revolving around the PDT-11... before I go slogging back thru the archives.. can someone give me a capsule description of the PDT-11 and where it fit in the DEC scheme of things? Cheers John

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM issues, who can burn?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/31/99 6:00:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com writes: > At 12:08 31-10-1999 -0700, you wrote: > > >Something has been rattling around my head and I have the urge to get it > >onto the ether (sorry I know it hasn't been a week yet, but the time did > >change). > > > >Somebody needs to set up an archival site for EPROM images, and we need to > >come up with a regular/practical method of getting data burnt into a chip > >for anybody that needs it. > > <snip> > > Great minds think alike. I'm in the process of doing EXACTLY this. The > kicker is twofold: > > 1). USWorst, or some other carrier, needs to make DSL service available in > my area so I can put my domain on the air. > > 2). I'm concerned about copyright violation, even on the older stuff. The > one thing I absolutely cannot deal with is a lawsuit! > > >More thinking, we need to keep the site private, or upload only, with > >download permission only to selected individuals (who I would hope would > >keep a mirror of the site in case the main site had a problem). > > Ahhhhh... now THAT might get me around the copyright issues! Set it up > such that only the folks who own equipment that can use the images can get > to it... Have it the same way as they do the MAME ROM images; just have it on a publicly accessable site, but just have a disclaimer that says for 'archival' purposes only. everyone pretty much understands what the deal is. ;-> DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 4 months

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EPROM issues, who can burn?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Somebody needs to set up an archival site for EPROM images, and we need to >come up with a regular/practical method of getting data burnt into a chip >for anybody that needs it. A few thoughts: 1. Really, really old devices aren't well supported on even the best modern programmers. (The obvious example of this is the Intel 1702A.) In many cases you have to go back to "classic" programmers to get these programmed. 2. Some devices (particularly PALs) with the security fuse blown *can* be reverse engineered through either detective work or brute force. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Decserver 200/mc

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

In case anyone is looking for one, there's a DECserver 200/MC on haggle.com, currently at $13.00 (no bids), closing in 4 hours. http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202107926 Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by JusmeSJ＠aol.com

Hi, I ran accross your message in a web search. I have a working and currently running Northstar Horizon, I have parts like drive controller, i/o, mamory cards and a few teac drives. I also have alot of documentation on northstar Horizon & Advantage computers, plus software like N*Basic, N*Cp/m etc. Are u building one? need help getting it goin let me know. Steve Benedict Redwood City, California

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon - them's fightin' words!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<cultural bias developed during the early years of CP/M compilers, which <often generated code blocks too large to be used in a N* with its BASIC RO <in place. There were some locally-generated business software packages What basic rom? The boot for the NS* and the memory mapped controller was only 2k though awkward at E800h orgin. the top 4k was available and quite usable. <The main issue for me, of course, was the compatibility issue, which, as <you've pointed out, could be dealt with by selective paring and pruning. Back then compatability was a generic issue. unless you were locked to only hardware do disk format (come to think of it, most of us were!). <Integrand, (Visalia, CA) which unified the drive and system packages, and <put whatever the currently "best" board set or assortment in it. That <usually meant CCS or SD Systems, at the time. Good stuff... but still thing like boot disks were generally locked to the disk controller used and often the serial IO used. CPM was supposed to fix that but being sparse in some areas people would go direct to the hardware and... incompatable... to say it was annoyance of the era would be an understatment. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Well I'm trying to rebuild an Altair but it's ending up with mostly N* <parts! So far it has a N* disk controller and it's getting a N* CPU card <(when I get it finished.) I have quite a bit of N* application software <that I've bought over the 'net. Looks like it's going to be a N* in an <Altair's skin! I'll be needing some memory and I/O cards and other stuff <after I get the CPU working. I know I need some N* operating system disks Not an unusual config for altairs in the late '70s. Altair disks were about 4x the price of the NS* (MDS-A) one and it was smaller too. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon - them's fightin' words!

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, Parrrrrdonn me! My statements re: N* reflected a locally developed cultural bias developed during the early years of CP/M compilers, which often generated code blocks too large to be used in a N* with its BASIC ROM in place. There were some locally-generated business software packages which, for a time, wouldn't run on N* because of the small TPA. This was later resolved, in that the code was rebuilt with a smaller map. The FDC compatibility problem went away when the SW vendor got a N*. This suggests the N* was, in general, popular enough to warrant such steps. The main issue for me, of course, was the compatibility issue, which, as you've pointed out, could be dealt with by selective paring and pruning. That was not cost-efficient, however, and, since my living and that of my colleagues of the time was dependent on making things work at the lowest possible overall cost, the notion of buying a box and then replacing/augmenting some of its innards was not fiscally palatable. The approach which suited me best at the time was to buy a box, e.g. from Integrand, (Visalia, CA) which unified the drive and system packages, and put whatever the currently "best" board set or assortment in it. That usually meant CCS or SD Systems, at the time. I did, after all, indicate that the N*'s were not readily impeachable on grounds of functional or reliability issues. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bob Stek <bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 11:17 AM Subject: RE: Northstar Horizon - them's fightin' words! >Now just a minute, there! As a founding member (along with John Dvorak when >he sold N* software out of his home in his "Software Review" newsletter) of >the International NorthStar User's Association (INSUA) I take issue! The >NorthStar's "limitations" (so-called) were there because they were one of >the pioneers with an early 4 MHz Z-80 powered S-100 box without the switches >and blinkin' lights so beloved by members of this group (myself included, as >an IMSAI owner w/ N* drives!)- this was prior to CP/M, when 32k was a >mammoth amount of memory. With its sleek, brushed aluminum front panel and >walnut cabinet it could fit into the office environment of those >professionals / pioneers who wanted a micro to do useful office work. N*'s >BCD arithmetic gave exact answers even before MBASIC users began to complain >about "rounding" errors. And for serious number crunching, add N*'s >hardware FP board, and top it off with Allen Ashley's N* BASIC compiler >(under N* DOS or CP/M) and you had a very fast system. A 56k CP/M system >was considered more than adequate for most programs. What programs in >particular couldn't you run? Of course we all wanted a bigger TPA, and >there were ways to achieve this. The most elegant, IMHO, was to replace the >N* controller with one from Morrow which could handle N*'s native >hard-sectored format, as well as soft-sectored 5" and 8" formats. You could >also move N*'s boot PROM from E800 to F800 without too much difficulty, and >add an 8" controller as well. > >Curiosity, indeed! > >Bob Stek >bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com >Saver of Lost SOLs (and expanding Horizons!) > >-----Original Message----- >From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu >[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher >Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 12:01 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon > > >I am not, nor have I been, trying to get a Horizon, or any other model of N* >going. I recently arranged to give away my last bit of N* hardware, a Z80A >CPU card. I have had lots of trouble finding people who would take it. The >problem, of course, isn't that they don't work, because they do, and very >well, too, but rather that the N* environment is so limited, particularly in >the Horizon with its 8K ROM space, that many compiled programs won't work >because the TPA is too small. What's more, the FDC isn't capable using of >CP/M-standard (IBM-3740, SSSD 8") diskettes. > >They're OK as a curiosity, but back in the lat '70's and early '80's, they >were not well received because of the TPA and FDC issues mentioned above, >and I warn everyone off them due to their resulting limitations. > >regards, > >Dick >-----Original Message----- >From: JusmeSJ(a)aol.com <JusmeSJ(a)aol.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 10:30 PM >Subject: Northstar Horizon > > >>Hi, I ran accross your message in a web search. I have a working and >>currently running Northstar Horizon, I have parts like drive controller, >i/o, >>mamory cards and a few teac drives. I also have alot of documentation on >>northstar Horizon & Advantage computers, plus software like N*Basic, N*Cp/m >>etc. Are u building one? need help getting it goin let me know. >> >>Steve Benedict >>Redwood City, California >

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<well, too, but rather that the N* environment is so limited, particularly i <the Horizon with its 8K ROM space, that many compiled programs won't work There is only 2k of ram space (e800h to efffh) the upper 4k is usable. This space is carved out by the memory mapped disk controller not the cpu any other component. <because the TPA is too small. What's more, the FDC isn't capable using of <CP/M-standard (IBM-3740, SSSD 8") diskettes. Typical TPA using a NS is 56k, though if you put the bios in the top 4k that 58k. ALL if that is ONLY if the NS* controller is used as the rest of the system is not biased in any way by eprom/rom maps. <They're OK as a curiosity, but back in the lat '70's and early '80's, they <were not well received because of the TPA and FDC issues mentioned above, <and I warn everyone off them due to their resulting limitations. They were popular and widely used, thats why they are common. The greatest featur of them at that time was they worked more so than most of the other s100 gear. No if you want MMU equiped CPU and DMA controllers there were few if any of those before the early 80s and the NS* is a 1977 machine. I have two, one running a MDS-A single density controller in the configuration you'd find on in back in 1977 save for I have 3 half height floppies where the 2 full height ones are and a half height (st225) hard disk using a teltek controller on with a 52k tpa (the hard disk driver eats 2k) and the second has a softsector controller of my design that is 62k tpa, the z80 is been modified (different crystal) for 8mhz and supports a hard disk (also teltek controller). I consider them fine 4mhz z80 CPM systems and they run everything. NS* dos is also ok and the hard sectored (real NS* controller) runs UCSD Pascal P system as well (I have the original NS* build I bought in 1978). As a collectors sytem or very exciting Z80 system these are not it. They were too common for collectable and are only classic. As a really fancy no holds z80 system again they were vanilla. They did get purchased in gobs around '78-80 as business turnkey boxes as they were known to work and most of the bad press they got was the shugat SA400 floppies (not rugged drive!) and the 16K NS* ram was not so good (plenty of other ram cards were substituted very successfully). You want a hot (s100) z80 system? Look at CCS, Compupro, Morrow, Vector or one few get to see a full front pannel Ithica Intersystems. You want fast... Teltek or SDS single board s100, these were Z80 4/6/8mhz, 2 serial, parallel printer and FDC plus 128k ram on one card. The one system turned 21 this year! The other was a 1980 build. Rather than get into the S100 vs XXX bus... S100 was a really badly designed bus (fell in to it would be the most kind) but it worked if understood it's quirks. At early 80s the issue was cost and software not the bus used anyway. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon

by edick＠idcomm.com

I am not, nor have I been, trying to get a Horizon, or any other model of N* going. I recently arranged to give away my last bit of N* hardware, a Z80A CPU card. I have had lots of trouble finding people who would take it. The problem, of course, isn't that they don't work, because they do, and very well, too, but rather that the N* environment is so limited, particularly in the Horizon with its 8K ROM space, that many compiled programs won't work because the TPA is too small. What's more, the FDC isn't capable using of CP/M-standard (IBM-3740, SSSD 8") diskettes. They're OK as a curiosity, but back in the lat '70's and early '80's, they were not well received because of the TPA and FDC issues mentioned above, and I warn everyone off them due to their resulting limitations. regards, Dick -----Original Message----- From: JusmeSJ(a)aol.com <JusmeSJ(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 10:30 PM Subject: Northstar Horizon >Hi, I ran accross your message in a web search. I have a working and >currently running Northstar Horizon, I have parts like drive controller, i/o, >mamory cards and a few teac drives. I also have alot of documentation on >northstar Horizon & Advantage computers, plus software like N*Basic, N*Cp/m >etc. Are u building one? need help getting it goin let me know. > >Steve Benedict >Redwood City, California

26 years, 4 months

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Old Tandy Computer (fwd)

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Anybody interested in this Tandy 1000? Please contact the owner directly. Reply-to: jjones2(a)csuhayward.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:17:54 -0700 From: Jean Jones <jjones2(a)csuhayward.edu> Subject: Old Tandy Computer Hi, I have a Tandy 1000 w/ dot matrix printer and monitor in my garage. I have floppies to go with it. Desk mate etc. DOS 3.0 on floppy to run it Word perfect 5.0 on floppies Well, it still works(sound effects and all) In fact, it only left my 12 year-old son's room LAST MONTH to live in garage. He wrote his 6th grade reports on it last year in WP 5.0 I guess I am crazy, but will not let this vintage 1980 computer go to the dump. Are you interested??? Will donate to good home!! J2 Sellam International Man of Intrique and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org

26 years, 4 months

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SparcPrinter available, SoCal only please

by af-list＠is1.wfi-inc.com

Hi all, I've got a SparcPrinter with the lp card and cables that could be available to a local (too heavy/delicate to ship). I also have a Sparc1 hanging around that you could turn into a print server. No reasonable (or other) offers refused, trades are great. If someone out of the area is absolutely desperate for one, I'll drive it over to Mailboxes etc at your expense/liability... Sorry it's not quite to the list's definition of "classic" (soon!), but I thought someone on the list might be able to use it. It's actually a pretty decent laser printer, just kind of slow. Using the Sparc1 w/Linux, you could set it up as a print server for Unix/Windows/Macintosh machines (I have the lpviio.h file to modify Ghostscript too). I'm just out of room and just got an Apple Personal Laserwriter NTR for my desk, so something's got to go. Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by mdalene＠home.ctol.net

I tried that downgrade from VT180 to Vt100 and you know what? it Works! Now heres a little Cool (good compliment) to those wonderous DEC engineers who must have loved to play with weird and unusual designs. Py point of View also stems from my expirence with my Rainbow 100 Computer and what I learned about Both the Vt180 and the Rainbow 100. DEC's engineers loved to lay their add-on boards flat. Unlike the IBM Pc type of Perpendudicular layout. Dec loves to stack addons on top of addons! Lets see, the VT100's AVO is stacked on top of the Controller, the STP board has a small satelite board on top of it. (I made a goof when I said there was an ocilator circut on it. it consists of 3 chips. Lets say you wanted to make an Addon for the AVO.. EASY! Stack one More on it. Oh yeah, you are out of room there. Oh well. so run a ribbon cable to the two Empty Card cage slots of my Vt180! These people from reading "Hackers" loved to allow people to tinker with their stuff, Dec loved them so much that they sold Service manuals with diagnostics and programming info! I have the Rainbow 100 TEchnical guide and the admendum which tells you alot about How the various boards work! In fact the MIT hackers added additonal instructions to thier PDP computers (the older transistorinzed one *PDP 8?) Its quite a shock compared to the modern plastic, glued shut and disposable technoligy of today). Their Idea of a Self Shorting Card slot blew my mind! Never saw anything like that in my 31 years of life! Remove the STP and what you got? a standard WORKING Vt100? No soldering! No trace cutting? and I love this! No DIP Switches to switch! In fact I bet one could even replace that STP with a generic computer such as the SB180! or perhaps the guts of a H89 (using the Vt100 as a console! While we are praising the older computer technoligy lets not forget the H19/H88/H89 system. Like the Vt180 it was a terminal (H19) with the CPU daugher board BEHIND the Terminal controller. From my futzing with the system to fix my H88 that broke. (No, sigh.. its long gone) You had to unbolt the board, unplug the Serial cable to the H19 board plug one of the serial cables from a serial port into the h19 connector and Volia! Instant H19 Terminal! and it had a "Flip Top" Case! A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the potential to be a dandy. -- Anonymnous -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- B'ichela

26 years, 4 months

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DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<ALSO EXTREME WARNING!! The standard power supply for a VT103 <is able to output ONLY 16 amps on the 5 volts and very little on the 12 vol this is a problem and if you pick the cards right a Q22 11/23 can be built but its tight for power. If the disk is in an external box power is less a problem. <While I definitely agree that the VT103 was a very interesting piece of <hardware, what I do not understand is why it was not extended - unless <DEC was so loath to admit that it could not add a hard drive at that point It's product code was MDS-11A, it was intended as a small devopment system for Falcon (KXT-11) card users. Also at that time KO made a point that that PCs were not a business to persue. there was a version that was Vt100 based and built for newspaper use. The system had 11/23 base and was MOP loaded from the host. The keyboard was NOT the stand VT100 one and had a lot more keys. There were due to space in the box and parts that would fit however many hacks (from DECs CSS, Computer special systems <for a price anything>) and external to DEC. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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RSTS/E

by lance＠costanzo.net

At 03:16 PM 10/29/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > >I am playing with the PDP11 emulator by Bob Supnik, and I have a running RSTS/E. > >I just recently figgured out how to add new users.. >I am still trying to figgure out how to send files to the "lineprinter" >and how to punch files RSTS was one of the first systems I hacked. We used to make changes to the kernel on disk (like non-priving the peek() statement), then crash it. The operators would reboot and the changes would take effect. Hey, I was in college at the time. IIRC (and most times I don't), you wrote print files to disk and used the 'que' program to send it to the system print queue. You may also be able to open 'lp0:' and write directly. Lance Costanzo http://www.webhighrise.com System Administrator Website and Virtual Domain Hosting lance(a)costanzo.net starting at $5/month, no setup fees

26 years, 4 months

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New Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Went to the big Hamfest and Computer Expo here in St. Paul MN yesterday and found a few gems. Some are not yet 10 years old but getting there. I got HP 700/RX model C27088; a lot of ThinkPad items; new test patch cords 50 cents never opened; tons of software for various machines; early AdLib PC music system in the box; Sanyo EPROM programmer; lots of cables; some good books on microprocessors; new books on the Apple Newton; Heatkit service manuals, for keyboards,FD controllers,computers, portables, etc.; a MAC Portable Owner's guide in like new condition; and many other items (over 70). It was a fun day and I got to talk with other collectors there from our list.

26 years, 4 months

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HELP! ( totally OT) - Hitachi Monitor problem

by edick＠idcomm.com

please see embedded remarks below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 12:21 PM Subject: Re: HELP! ( totally OT) - Hitachi Monitor problem >> >Hey _I'm_ the one that flames about not being able to get service >> >information for everything I own. Last time I ranted on about this you >> >pointed out a number of good reasons why such information might not be >> >available. >> > >> It's like getting the service manual for a car of the same vintage, except >> that when a car is this old, it's just starting to cause little problems and >> the third-party repair manuals are available everywhere. In the electronics > >ALthough to be fair, most of the 3rd party car shop manuals are a waste >of space. Having been caught out a couple of times, I now always work >from the factory manual. It costs a bit more, but... > Agreed, though the original from the mfg is normally only available during the first year or two of ownership. I have the Nissan manual for my Maxima, though it was nine years old before I needed it. Frankly, I bought a 3rd party manual only because I couldn't find the original. > >> business, there have never been really decent repair manuals from 3rd >> parties, except maybe for TV's, of which I've never had one break. >> Unfortunately, as the prices of these commodities drop, the level of >> expectation to which the vendors respond drops as well. These days, you can >> get a really decent 20" monitor for $400 or less. When it breaks, it's >> unlikely you'll get anyone to fix it for less than the price of a new one. > >Except that in a lot of cases the old (and expensive when new) monitor >(or whatever) is built a _lot_ better than the modern 'replacemnt' (and >it may well give better performance as well -- a lot of modern monitors >have terrible convergence, etc). > >I guess I'm strange, but I'd rather repair something that was once great >than replace it with something that could never be as good... > Yes, but new monitors these days have flat screens and are VERY sharp and VERY linear, unlike the large-screen multisync displays of yesteryear. The fixed frequency varieties which are so difficult to use for anything useful are the outgrowth of this. Instead of making an "average" monitor with the ability to sync at several sweep rates displaying appropriate resolutions, they made one which was VERY linear and VERY well focused and converged at a single frequency and let the boardmakers benefit from that. > >> >> If you want a schematic of a 7-year-old TV set, I doubt it's readily >> available either. I've never had a monitor repaired successfully by a > >Hmm... In the UK there were books produced every year of TV schematics. I >have an almost-complete set from 1952 to 1981 (!) -- these ones cover >radios, tape recorders, etc as well. And beleive-it-or-not, many public >libraries have at least some of them available. > >So finding the schematic of a 7 year old TV (which is not an old set >IMHO) would not be a big problem. > >There are also companies who sell copies of old service manuals, for just >about anything. I got the manuals for the Sony 'Rover' portable >reel-to-reel video recorder and camera a few months back. That thing is >over 25 years old, but there was no problem in getting a service manual, >although Sony could no longer supply it. > >Said company does sell computer (mostly home micro) and monitor service >manuals (I got the Sharp MZ80B manual + schematics from them). But >obviously they can only supply manuals if the manufacturer of the device >has produced them (and has given permission for them to be reproduced, I >guess). > >There are some books of computer monitor circuits available, and then >later they produced similar information on CD-ROM (basically just scans >of the manuals). I found the latter to be painful to use, but the former >are actually very useful. Even if your monitor isn't in there, there's >likely to be something that's similar. > >> "professional" working at an "authorized" repair center. I sent in a very > >I've never met a 'professional' who could repair anythign of mine. Why >do you think I fix everything myself :-)... > Hear! Hear! ... > >[...] > >> >Although it's hard to imagine anything particularly clever/unusual in a >> >standard colour monitor. Most monitors that I've worked on use pretty >> >much standard circuitry. >> > >> That's what puzzles me about the color displays I have sitting about. There >> aren't many that look even remotely similar beyond the most superficial >> observation. Not one has a flyback transformer, and all the >> current-generation multisync types use some encapsulated device about 4x6x1" >> or so to effect the power management functions. > >Hmm... In my experiece most single-freqeuncy monitors still use a >traditional flyback transformer. I say 'most' because there are one or >two that I have that use an independant EHT supply. > >As soon as you get to multiple scan rates (even just for EGA), it makes >life a lot easier if you separate the EHT generator and the Horizontal >output. EHT still comes from a 'flyback transformer' but it's not >connected to the HOT. It has its own driver transistor. Both the HOT and >the EHT-transformer output transistor are driven by the horizontal >oscillator but the supply to the output stage (normally) is separately >controllerd. This allows non-interacting EHT regulation and width >control, I guess. > I wish I knew as much about these things as you, but I've stuck with the circuits inside the computer, and allowed others, (obviously) to worry the problems with monitors. I learned at an early age, that punched and screwed chassis take skin of hands (or whatever else you have on their far side) as you try to get away from the "bite" of the HV lurking inside. > >No idea what modern multisync-with-power-save+... do. I've never had the >misfortune to have to really repair one. The couple I have fixed have had >obvious faults that I could sort out without a schematic and without >understanding how the unit really works. You know, faults like dry joints >on the CRT base. > Unfortunately those are commone enough to motivate even me to look inside. > >-tony >

26 years, 4 months

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fwd: Old computer stuff

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Some potentially interesting stuff for rescue in the Utah area. Please reply off-list to the original poster -jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From: pmarzolf(a)juno.com >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:11:22 -0600 >Subject: Old computer stuff >X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 >X-Status: > >I am the oldest programer still programming >in the basic language. > >Through the years of programing I have collected >alot of computer stuff. It starts with programes >written for LGP-30 in 1956. > >I can't find anyone except the dump for all this >stuff. I guess my problem is it is not on the >west coast. If you or you know any one that >would be interested I would like to hear from >them. > >Paul V Marzolf >2761 Morningside Dr. >Salt Lake City, Ut 84124 >Email >pmarzolf(a)juno.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

26 years, 4 months

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Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Wrong... (I think). My memory may be hazy but... <The VT132 (and 131 I believe) both were capable of block mode. <The 132 (I thought) was a 102 with block mode, AVO and Printer port <capability. Might be right, though I thought that was the VT161/2. there were a lot of "flavors" of those. <The VT131 had Block mode, STP, AVO done the old way... All three <options and different roms. < <The 132 was a cost reduced 131 based on the 102 which came standard <with 24 lines of 132 (without AVO) -- It was built in the standard <VT102 logic board. Thats it. <The VT101 was a 102 without the AVO memory (I think) and was the bottom <of the line VT10x in cost. Yep! <I think the 102 and 132 allows hardware flow control like the VT220. Actually they all did. it was called restraint mode (pin 19 or 21) I'd have to look). <There were some interesting illegal (and legal) escape codes that did <interesting different bugs to the VT100, 101 and 102 based on their <setup settings. One of these bugs caused hell for VT102 and 101 users <when the EDT program slowed their scrolling down to a crawl back around <VMS 3.2 or so. Ah yep. Remember the fix, VT52mode. Then came the group that produced the Video SRM and later the printers SRMs (DEC STDs). the goal was to not break anything and have compatability that made sense for later products. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Could the VT103 supply handle the load of this stuff...? <Hmmm... Mine can... (not the standard part!) <Is Bernie still around? <I'd love to make ZCPR2 and ZCPR3 for the Rainbow available to the net <but I'd need his ok... Don't know. I've not been around DEC for 6 years. Didn't he copyleft those version of ZCPR (ZCPR was copyleft itself!). Allison

26 years, 4 months

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DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I do. I always wanted to turn it into a semi-portable UNIX machine < <> It's a VT100 with a 4-slot Q-bus backplane inside (!). Actually it was 3 quad wide or 6 AB slots. <Some even had TU-58's in the front. Never. that was a PDT11/130 that was demoted to a Vt100 then had one of two possible backplanes installed. The 11/130 TU58 would ahve the board swaped out was it was the ONLY parallel version and the rest were serial. <> There's a paddleboard in <> the STP slot that links to 2 ports on a DLV11-J (4-port RS232) card in <> the backplane. < <*That* I don't have. :-( Not required just means different cables. The STP card interconneccted the VT100 but you could to that with a cable from the VT100 DB25 to a MXV11 or DLV11j just as easily. <> The VT100 becomes the console for whatever processor you <> stick in the Q-bus, while the connector on the back is a normal serial <> port, also on the Q-bus system... If you have that STP card. Otherwise it's just a console and you use a modem program to (VTcom, Vterm). <For compact systems, the MXV-11 also works with the paddle card - two port <and some memory. MXV11 x2 gets you 32kW, 4 serial ports and boot roms plus a cpu card is a system. The only other card would be a RXV11 or RXV21 (or similar) for a floppy. The TU58 if you have one of the cases with it uses a serial port and the MXV11s (x2) will certainly provide that. Another config is KDF11A (11/23 m8186), one or two 256k cards (q22), DLV11J (4 serial ports), M8212 (boot) and a RXV21 (or RQDX3). With Qbus 11s you can slice and dice it a lot of ways. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Unified e-mail address for Sellam Ismail

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Effective immediately I am shedding the <dastar(a)wco.com> e-mail address. My primary and sole e-mail address is now <sellam(a)siconic.com>. Please use <sellam(a)siconic.com> for all your future e-mails. Thank you. Sellam International Man of Intrique and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org

26 years, 4 months

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Vt180, whats the story here?

by mdalene＠home.ctol.net

[This message has also been posted.] First a short summary, Something I have been giving for awhile, I got a free Vt180 terminal. AT least Thats what It says on the front. but on the back on the nameplate it says its aa Vt100-AA! I am wondering if the AVO and the Secondary Processor part (STP) was added later on. It works GREAT as a vt100 but I have ran into a few brick walls trying to find a EK-vt100-UG Vt100 Users Guide. I can order it from Digital/Compaq for $25 but I rather not dip into my grocery money for a technical manual. I have not found out anything on how to set the printer up on it. or how to use the Vt180 part of it. or for that matter, how do I RIP that OUT! if I cannot get a boot disk for it... its worthless anyway. Here is my questions. Please help me best you can here: 1. what is Advanced Video Option (AVO) and how do I use it? 2. If the STP is the VT180 part how do I REMOVE it! *if I want plain Vt100, while maintaining AVO) 3. How do I use a printer on a VT100 and how do I set printer baud rates and parity, Stop bits 3. What are the part numbers for the manuals I need for this sucker? I know of the EK-VT100-UG and the EK-VT100-RC but what do I need for the advanced video option? STP (VT180? part) 4. What is the Graphics option? can I still get one? is that for bit mapped graphics? howis it used? can the graphics be used via Linux with graphics display utility or a plotting program (gnupplot). 5. can any of this info be located on the internet? Do I need to go hungry by ordering over $200 in US dollars worth of manuals (I only get $686 each month due to my legal blindness, that goes for rent, Electric, Gas, phone and food. My rent is $350.00 btw. 6. who has the sticker (in sticker form) that goes on the bottom of the vt100 keyboard showing the setup B screen and I/O toggle possitions. 7. How do I make the Needed cable to connect to the external floppy drive unit? Db37 to Db25? what is the pinouts or wiring to make this cable. 8. Since it has Composite In and Composite out. Does it have a built in genlock allowing me to at least use the Vt100 to do titling and captions; then sending the output to a second Video Recording unit. if titleing is not possible, what is Composite video IN for?? I tried to find this info for over 2 weeks, on Webcrawler, Infoseeek, Lycos, Altavista, Lycos (ftp search), Ask Jeeves, hotbot and what I have gotten is very sketchy at best. All I really NEED at this time is a a copy of the needed manuals in either Postscript or PDF format. or good ole HTML.. Finding the pin outs of the Vt180 cable are non-existant, as is sources of Vt180 boot disk images. While we are on the issue of DEC stuff. Who has the full list of the Control Codes for the Rainbow 100's terminal mode? How come when I fire up CP/M Modem7 or 8? I can use the Previous Screen/Next Screen keys and yet in the ROM Vt100 emulation Neither key works? Is there a good program for CPM 86/80 that allows the use or the extraa keys to be sent to Linux? such as HELP, DO, HOME, Insert, Delete Next Screen and Previous Screen? what is the Ansi codes sent by these keys?? I need something that handles 9600 bps with proper flow control. the "Modem" program for CP/M does NOT seem to work well at 9600 as it drops characters often. -- A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the potential to be a dandy. -- Anonymnous -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- B'ichela

26 years, 4 months

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Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<A VT125 is a STP board that is also called a Graphics processor board. It's not a STP board. the stp board is a little bord used to interconnet the two or (technically) a printer buffer board. The VT125 option ( have two) is a double board set that adds in like the VT180 card and is the same size overall as a VT100 card (that also has to be present). I know, the engineering group I was with was formerly the TERMINALS and PRINTERS people at DEC. Later it became two distinct groups. I still keep a hybrid VT100 that has VT125, VT180 and PDT11/130(the VT180 card and the PDT can be swapped in a moment as both would cook the PS nor woth the fit!) in the same case. Definately not factory but it allows me to have something that is a genuine VT100 for those times when nothing else will do. I think Bernie, me and a few odd people had real VT185s. They were scarce. The reason was the interconnect card (different STP card than plain VT100/VT180) was needed and I don't think it ever got to production. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org

> > > --- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > There's a thing called a VT103 (which I don't have :-(). > > I do. I always wanted to turn it into a semi-portable UNIX machine > > > It's a VT100 with a 4-slot Q-bus backplane inside (!). I've got an unused one sitting in the garage. I've got some docs somewhere on how to rewire the backplane for uVaxII's. > > There's a paddleboard in > > the STP slot that links to 2 ports on a DLV11-J (4-port RS232) card in > > the backplane. > > *That* I don't have. :-( Ah yesss... I'm not sure if there's one in mine. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.

26 years, 4 months

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DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > There's a thing called a VT103 (which I don't have :-(). I do. I always wanted to turn it into a semi-portable UNIX machine > It's a VT100 with a 4-slot Q-bus backplane inside (!). Some even had TU-58's in the front. > There's a paddleboard in > the STP slot that links to 2 ports on a DLV11-J (4-port RS232) card in > the backplane. *That* I don't have. :-( > The VT100 becomes the console for whatever processor you > stick in the Q-bus, while the connector on the back is a normal serial > port, also on the Q-bus system... For compact systems, the MXV-11 also works with the paddle card - two ports and some memory. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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KM-11 clone (was Re: Ongoing excavations - PDP-8/e)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > > I'd _love_ to have a KM11 card. > > > > > > Make one!. I've posted the instructions to this list (and other places) > > > before, and I'll post them again if anyone is interested. Cool. Thanks. > How to build a clone of the DEC KM11 maintenance module > Components : > 4 * ULN2803 What's this? I don't recognize the part number. > The meanings of the LED's and switches are shown in the DEC maintenance > manual or Engineering drawings for the particular device. If you don't know > what they are, I may be able to look them up for you. I could use the info on what the lights mean for an RX01. Thanks muchly, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by mbg＠world.std.com

> Their Idea of a Self Shorting Card slot blew my mind! Never saw >anything like that in my 31 years of life! Remove the STP and what you >got? a standard WORKING Vt100? No soldering! No trace cutting? and I love >this! No DIP Switches to switch! Many years ago, I took one of the 20ma current loop options and added a DPDT switch to it, the four wires from the switch snaked to a piece of a two-sided card which slid into the stp slot of the VT100. With the 'card' (only two fingers wide) inserted in the stp slot, the switch allowed me to switch between the EIA connector on the back of the VT100 and the 20ma current loop connector... I still have the modified option... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 4 months

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KM-11 clone (was Re: Ongoing excavations - PDP-8/e)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> How to build a clone of the DEC KM11 maintenance module >> Components : >> 4 * ULN2803 > >What's this? I don't recognize the part number. It's a Darlington array. When I got started the part number belonged to Sprague, now Allegro Micro sells them - see http://www.allegromicro.com/ If you fetch the 2803 data sheet, you'll see that it still proudly claims that the inputs are DTL compatible :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Diablo HyType II Ribbons available

by bobstek＠ix.netcom.com

I have 20 sealed in plastic, unopened Diablo HyType II ribbons - high capacity black multi-strike - which I would like to send to a good home. Shipping (plus an issue or two of any 1976-1982 micro magazines you happen to have a duplicate of - or a working Altair or Apple I <g>), and they are yours. Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

26 years, 4 months

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SoCal: Free LA120 Ribbons; UPS; VT220's; Wyse 85; VGA Monitor; DOS Dev Software

by elmo＠hotpop.com

I have the following for free, you pickup, in Santa Monica, or I may be able to drop off within LA County this weekend: 2-3 VT220 with keyboard 1 Wyse 85 with keyboard 1 MinuteMan 500 UPS (dead, old) 30 LA120 ribbons (clone) 5 Comdial/ITT/ATT 2500 sets, Beige, er, "putty" 1 ATT Model 100 Wall Phone, White 2 TT Systems 4-line phones (no wall warts), Grey Plus some rather old MSDOS development tools on 5.25": RTLink Plus V6.1 RTPatch Microsoft C 5.1 Microsoft C/C++ Central Point AntiVirus Greenleaf C Comm Library Greenleaf DataWindows Central Point PC-Tools PC Anywhere III Desqview 386 + API PKWare Library Please let me know ASAP if you have an interest and include phone numbers. Regards, Eliot

26 years, 4 months

2
2
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Vt180, whats the story here?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I happen to have a VT100 series Technical Manual. Also a VT640 >manual (also known as a Retrographics board). The VT640/Retrographics upgrade makes an *extremely* usable graphics terminal. My favorite plotting package, PLOTDATA (aka PHYSICA) uses it, and the package is available for VMS and many Unices at ftp://ftp.triumf.ca/physica/ -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

2
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Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<One thing I didn't mention is that there's a pin on both the AVO and <STP(?) connectors that's grounded when the appropriate board is <installed. This tells the VT100 control software (there's an 8080 or some <such in there, BTW) that that board is present, so it can report it to <the host. It's actually a DIP setup on the AVO and main board of the VT100. Stp for the most part was null functionality save for the printerbuffer cards. <Oh, quite likely... People on this list have all sorts of things... I <have a real VT105 (for my MINC system, for which it is the 'official' <terminal), but I am _not_ pulling the waveform generator from it. You forgot the VT103 that was a VT100 with AVO using a cost reduced card. I ahve one or two of those loose. <> > Composite in is strange. You first have to extract the sync from the <> > composite out socket, and lock an external video source to that. You ca <> > then feed the output of that video source into the composite in socket, Older video sources like cameras were deigned to be genlocked off somthing else and had two cables (the one I'd seen) and the sync return was usually >from the output of the GENlock/timebase to the VT100 and a TEE connector seemed to work for that. Should work for color as well. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< First a short summary, Something I have been giving for <awhile, I got a free Vt180 terminal. AT least Thats what It says on <the front. but on the back on the nameplate it says its aa Vt100-AA! I <am wondering if the AVO and the Secondary Processor part (STP) was <added later on. It works GREAT as a vt100 but I have ran into a few Typically they were or could be and the VT180 was some complete or as a VT100 upgrade. <brick walls trying to find a EK-vt100-UG Vt100 Users Guide. I can order <it from Digital/Compaq for $25 but I rather not dip into my grocery <money for a technical manual. I have not found out anything on how <to set the printer up on it. or how to use the Vt180 part of it. or <for that matter, how do I RIP that OUT! if I cannot get a boot disk <for it... its worthless anyway. Here is my questions. Please help me <best you can here: < 1. what is Advanced Video Option (AVO) and how do I use it? AVO permits 132 character lines by 24 lines where without it you limited to 132 by 12. It also adds video attributs (things like bold(bright), blink, underline and more). < 2. If the STP is the VT180 part how do I REMOVE it! *if I want <plain Vt100, while maintaining AVO) The STP is a seperate card that plugs in. The AVO is larger and has several 24 pins sockets. < 3. How do I use a printer on a VT100 and how do I set printer <baud rates and parity, Stop bits Different for plain VT100 than VT180. Vt180 has a utilitiy on the CPM boot disks. < 3. What are the part numbers for the manuals I need for this <sucker? I know of the EK-VT100-UG and the EK-VT100-RC but what do I <need for the advanced video option? STP (VT180? part) If you have a VT180, you have AVO as it was a required option for VT180 installation. < 4. What is the Graphics option? can I still get one? is that <for bit mapped graphics? howis it used? can the graphics be used via <Linux with graphics display utility or a plotting program (gnupplot). The graphics option was/is the VT125 upgrade. That can be combined to make a VT185 but the STP card for that config is really rare (I have one of the few). Nominally VT180s were not used with graphics option. The VT125 does two modes of bit mapped graphics, REGIS and SIXEL. the latter being a raw bit transfer and regis being a higher level plotting like language. < 5. can any of this info be located on the internet? Do I need <to go hungry by ordering over $200 in US dollars worth of manuals (I <only get $686 each month due to my legal blindness, that goes for <rent, Electric, Gas, phone and food. My rent is $350.00 btw. I'm afraid due to copyright and shear volume it's not on the net. < 6. who has the sticker (in sticker form) that goes on the <bottom of the vt100 keyboard showing the setup B screen and I/O toggle <possitions. DEC! It would be easier to get a keyboard for vt100 that does have that. < 7. How do I make the Needed cable to connect to the external <floppy drive unit? Db37 to Db25? what is the pinouts or wiring to <make this cable. I can give you the pinouts, I also have the cable sitting here to send between emergencies and other firedrills. ( I keep win boxen going). < 8. Since it has Composite In and Composite out. Does it have a <built in genlock allowing me to at least use the Vt100 to do titling <and captions; then sending the output to a second Video Recording <unit. if titleing is not possible, what is Composite video IN for?? Yes. It's use for that was a not often used feature but for those that needed it there were few options. < I tried to find this info for over 2 weeks, on Webcrawler, <Infoseeek, Lycos, Altavista, Lycos (ftp search), Ask Jeeves, hotbot and <what I have gotten is very sketchy at best. All I really NEED at this <time is a a copy of the needed manuals in either Postscript or PDF <format. or good ole HTML.. Finding the pin outs of the Vt180 cable are <non-existant, as is sources of Vt180 boot disk images. The vt180 was early 80s. One thing about the great WWW, if it's old, it aint there! < While we are on the issue of DEC stuff. Who has the full list <of the Control Codes for the Rainbow 100's terminal mode? How come <when I fire up CP/M Modem7 or 8? I can use the Previous Screen/Next It's a long list. The VT100 was the ansi terminal standard! All others were copies. <Screen keys and yet in the ROM Vt100 emulation Neither key works? Is <there a good program for CPM 86/80 that allows the use or the extraa <keys to be sent to Linux? such as HELP, DO, HOME, Insert, Delete Next <Screen and Previous Screen? what is the Ansi codes sent by these <keys?? I need something that handles 9600 bps with proper flow <control. the "Modem" program for CP/M does NOT seem to work well at <9600 as it drops characters often. Common case. Vt100 and vt180 software wwill run fast (19.2) _IF_ the other side and the modem understand X-on/X-off flow control. Even the base VT100 will not run at 9600 without that. I'd bet the linux Driver supports that but, it's PC based/biased so it's concept of slow maybe 38.4 which is not the way it was in the 1980s. IF there is no flow control, 2400 maybe 4800 is the limit then. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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PCjr E-mail client

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/29/99 9:54:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, austinh(a)ibm.net writes: > I have a PCjr which I would like to use as an E-mail client. Are you > aware of > any software which I could use via my ISP (formerly IBM and now ATT > worldnet). > closest thing that would work would be nettamer. do a web search on it. should work with 256k if your jr has been upgraded to it. DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 4 months

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PCjr E-mail client

by austinh＠ibm.net

Greetings I have a PCjr which I would like to use as an E-mail client. Are you aware of any software which I could use via my ISP (formerly IBM and now ATT worldnet). I also have PCjr hardware for which I would like to find a good home. Thanks in advance for help you can provide. Hal Austin Staatsburg NY

26 years, 4 months

1
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USUS library

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I've found someone who has the entire collection of disks from USUS, the UCSD Pascal User Group, and he's cheerfully coaxed his Linux box's disk parameters into reading the 800K 5 1/4 Pinnacle Systems disks he had. I hope to decipher the .SVOL "disk volume in a file" method they were stored in, and post them to my web page soon. He also mentioned he has source code on 8 inch disks from an Ohio Scientific, Inc. machine. He thought hed have more trouble finding a way to read those because of its scheme of using an 6820 parallel port controller and a 6850 serial port controller to access floppies. Is that true? Should the normal scheme for connecting a Shugart-y drive to an old AT-era WD controller work to read these old disks? - John

26 years, 4 months

5
4
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USUS library

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've found someone who has the entire collection of disks from USUS, >the UCSD Pascal User Group, and he's cheerfully coaxed his Linux >box's disk parameters into reading the 800K 5 1/4 Pinnacle Systems >disks he had. I hope to decipher the .SVOL "disk volume in a file" >method they were stored in, and post them to my web page soon. Cool. I *highly* recommend that someone, somewhere, store the raw disk images for future use. If someone wants to "pull files" out of the images, that's fine, but the exact image should be kept as the "master reference". >He also mentioned he has source code on 8 inch disks from an >Ohio Scientific, Inc. machine. He thought hed have more trouble >finding a way to read those because of its scheme of using an >6820 parallel port controller and a 6850 serial port controller >to access floppies. Is that true? Yep. Serial data (I think async, with start and stop bits) goes through a modulator and onto disk. Reverse the process to recover data. > Should the normal scheme for >connecting a Shugart-y drive to an old AT-era WD controller >work to read these old disks? Nope, the format is *nothing* like IBM3740, which is all a standard PC-clone FDC will do. (Admittedly, there are a lot of variants of IBM3740 that a 765-type FDC *will* do.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
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Compaq Portable II

by astroh1＠san.rr.com

I'm trying to locate a couple of these computers and was wondering if anywhere around there might know of someone who might have a couple for sale. If not, sorry for the bother. AL

26 years, 4 months

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