- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Found some PDP-1 stuff and updated webpage

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

I am just starting to go through the documentation and found some PDP-1 stuff. I have updated my web page to show pictures of some of the PDP-4 paper tapes and list most of the DECUS -8 tapes. I still have a long way to go as I still have to list all the PDP-1,PDP-4,PDP-5,PDP-8,PDP-9,PDP-15 software,docs and paper tapes I have but have a look. Some really cool finds so far: IBM 360 to PDP-9 Interface manual (theory, manual, schematics) Applications in Physics (PDP-1 and PDP-4) Atomic Energy Canada - uses for PDP-1 Macro-9 source code Focal-1968 source code DECUSCOPES and Decus year end stuff (1965,66,67) (will have some docs online soon) http://www.pdp8.com/ (click on the paper tape picture). PDP-8/s update: The oscilloscope and light pen were installed with success. Will have pictures online soon showing the 8/s draw pictures/letters on the scope. I also have a couple of video games I'll take movies of when I get time.

26 years, 3 months

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Old Computer stuff

by pmarzolf＠juno.com

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:21:04 -0800 Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > > Hi, > > I saw your message on the Classic Computer List, and am curious > about the > Lobo Drives Max 80 computers. I have a couple of Max 80 computers, > but am > missing the Lobo HD. What are you asking for that system? Thanks. > > Marvin =====> I'm sorry I have already found homes for my Max80 stuff. The only think I have left is Univac duel 8" drives and 8" diskettes with old stuff on them and some blank ones. Sorry that I didn't have more. Paul > > pmarzolf(a)juno.com wrote: > > > > From: > > Paul V. Marzolf > > 2761 Morningside Dr. > > Salt Lake City, Ut. 84124 > > Phone: (801) 277 7556 > > Email: pmarzolf(a)juno.com > > > > I don't know what I'm doing here but here it goes. > > > > I am looking for new homes for all the old computer stuff I > > have collected in my 40 years of working in the computer busness. > > I am a person that don't like to through any think away. > > I have hardware, books, manuals, magazines, and software. > > Here is a list of the hardware: > > ***LIST OF HARDWARE AND DOCUMENTATION*** > > > > COMPUTERS > > --------- > > 2 LOBO'S MAX80 - 5MHz Z-80B PROCESSOR 64k RAM. CP/M INCLUDED > > ALL DISK INTERFACE BUILT IN. PLUG IN ANY COMBINATION OF > > 5 1/4" FLOPPIES, 8" FLOPPIES, AND WINCHESTER DISK. > > CENTRONICS-TYPE PARALLEL PORT. BUILT-IN CLOCK/CALENDAR > > WITH BATTERY BACKUP, AND BUFFERED I/O EXPANDER PORT. > > > > 1 BOX OF DOCUMENTATION > > DUAL 8" DISK DRIVES (UNIVAC DRIVES) > > LOBO 5" HARD DISK DRIVE > > MONITOR > > > > ARC X-TURBO > > FLIP TOP CASE, 640K 8MHZ MOTHER BOARD, CLOCK/CALENDAR, TWO > > PAR, 2 SER, GAME PORT, 4 DRIVE CONTROLLER (RIBBON CABLES), > > 135W POWER SUPPLY, COLOR BOARD(RGB), 83 KEY KEYBOARD, TAXAN > > 415 MONITOR, THE HEART OF THE ARC X-TURBO IS THE INTEL > > 8088-2 MICRO-PROCESSOR USED IN THE IBM PERSONAL COMPUTER. > > TWO 5 1/4' FULL SIZE DISK DRIVES. > > TWO 5 1/4" HALF SIZE HIGH DENSITY EXTERNAL DISK DRIVES > > > > COMPAQ SUITE CASE PORTABLE (INTEL 8088) > > THE KEYBOARD IS THE LID. HAS BUILT IN MONITOR AND 2 > > 5" FLOPPIES. THE SIZE OF THE CARRY AROUND IS 16" X 20" > > X 9". > > > > OTHER COMPUTER HARDWARE > > ----------------------- > > POWER SUPPLY FOR APPLE IIE > > MICROSOFT Z80 SOFTCARD - A PERIFHERAL FOR THE APPLE IIE WITH > > CP/M AND MICROSOFT BASIC ON 5" DISKETTE. > > > > EMPTY BOX FOR FULL SIZE 5" DISK DRIVE (FOR TRS-80) > > DUAL 5" DISK DRIVE UNIT > > 2 - DUAL 8" DISK DRIVE UNITS (UNIVAC) > > 2 - 8" DISK DRIVES > > > > DIRECT/ACOUSTICALLY COUPLED MODEM LEX-12 > > 2 - UNIVERSAL DATA SYSTEMS 103 LP MODEM (ORIGINATE/ANSWER) > > DIAL PHONE TO USE WITH ABOVE MODEM > > > > PRINTERS > > UNVAC SERIAL PRINTER > > > > DOT MATRIX PRINTERS > > CITIZEN 2000GX > > PANASONIC KX-P1080i > > PANASONIC KX-P2023 > > UNVAC SERIAL PRINTER > > GORILLA/BANANA > > > > POWER SUPPLY HARDWARE. B6 > > ***BOX 9*** > > > > HARDWARE ACCESSORIES > > -------------------- > > ELBO ARM FOR COMPUTER. B9 > > HEAVY DUTY THAT CLAMP ONTO A DESK AND > > HOLDS A MONITOR AND KEYBOARD. > > > > TIP TABLE MONTIOR STAND. B9 > > > > 3 PRINTER STANDS AND PAPER HOLDER. B9 > > > > 2 5" DISKETTE TEAR HOLDER. B9 > > > > If interested I can send info about the computer stuff. Just > > ask???? > > > > It would be better for me if any response would use my > > E-mail address to talk to me. > > > > Hope someone will be interested. > > PAUL > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 3 months

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MicroVAX-II / PDP11-73 question...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

If I plug the CPU board of an 11/73 into a backpanel from a MicroVAX-II, will it work? Someone I know wants to try it. (I.E. they have the uV2 and want an 11-73 instead.) -------

26 years, 3 months

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E.U.N.U.C.H.

by edick＠idcomm.com

There ought to be enough old CRAY hardware out there, from which you can extract the circuits but not the plumbing and keep your PC and stuff in liquefied N2. That might help a little, and it will be cleaner, too. In fact, you ought to get it to run faster than the CRAY. I wonder if the CRAY will run as many instructions between crashes as the PC . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)is1.wfi-inc.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:45 PM Subject: Re: E.U.N.U.C.H. >Depending on what you jack the bus speed up to, you want to make sure that >the cache is cooled as well as your video processor. I have a 3dfx board >that I needed to put an aftermarket fan/heatsink on because it ran so hot. > >The nice thing about the high-pressure gas setup I mentioned earlier is >that you can direct the vented gas on hot spots to help keep them cool... > >Aaron > >On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > >> Besides the CPU, what other chips need to be chilled to over-clock? The >> Cache? >> ---------------------------------------- >> Tired of Micro$oft??? >> >> Move up to a REAL OS... >> ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >> #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >> ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >> ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >> ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### >> # ###### >> ("LINUX" for those of you >> without fixed-width fonts) >> ---------------------------------------- >> Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com >> >> Slackware Mailing List: >> http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html >> >

26 years, 3 months

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Help identify a 'luggable'

by Innfogra＠aol.com

My bet is that this is a clone case with a standard XT motherboard in it. I don't remember Compaq I portables with an amber monitor. I have one of these clone cases also. They look a lot like a Compaq. What does it say on bootup? Pull the covers off and see what motherboard is in it. Paxton

26 years, 3 months

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Would you take my PDP-8I for ?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > LOOKING FOR AN RM08 or..... > > Would be willing to trade me a transistor peripheral(s)for a major piece of > equipment like a PDP-8I... > > I am looking for any of these transistor peripherals: I don't have a *one* of those... I do have a couple of DF-32 (w/DS-32) systems which I want to hang onto long enough to re-check out (now that I know lots more about them) and at least one PA-60, which is, IIRC, some kind of printer driver for newspaper-type printers. Good luck dredging up that antediluvian hardware. You seem to have had quite a lot of good luck lately. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 3 months

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Would you take my PDP-8I for ?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Would you take my PDP-8I for ? > > >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >> LOOKING FOR AN RM08 or..... >> >> Would be willing to trade me a transistor peripheral(s)for a major piece of >> equipment like a PDP-8I... >> >> I am looking for any of these transistor peripherals: > >I don't have a *one* of those... I do have a couple of DF-32 (w/DS-32) systems I have two too! Can't wait to solve the head crashing problem.... I have a drum memory unit for my PDP-15 but nothing like that for an 8 or 8/s. Aside >from acoustic memory, I find drum memory is the coolest device to run. >which I want to hang onto long enough to re-check out (now that I know lots >more about them) and at least one PA-60, which is, IIRC, some kind of printer >driver for newspaper-type printers. Never heard of it.. > >Good luck dredging up that antediluvian hardware. You seem to have had quite >a lot of good luck lately. Not really. I just usually scrapped this kind of stuff and jumped on Honeywell/PDP 11s/HP minis. I always thought 8s were junk (well.....)... This spring things were getting slow in mini requests so I started scrapping a lot of good stuff.. even a lot of PDP-8 boards (I mean a lot)... I didn't know about this list/ebay 6 months ago and I suspect most computer collectors/restorers still don't. I am going into three more plants before February filled with only really old DEC/IBM stuff... One site had quite a few DECTape drives I will be grabbing. Usually, most *old* steel factories I go into have a really old mini (pre '68) hidden in a room somewhere... I am hoping for more transistor peripherals from my 8. At least 1 Straight-8 has been found at one of the sites but I already have that sold to someone (less the peripherals of course :-) ) Good luck with your minis! john > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >

26 years, 3 months

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IBM 9370 Mainframe Specs?

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

[9370] > Mainframe? Yeah, I guess it could still be called that because of its > intended application to handle a whole enterprise plus it is a CMOS > implementation of the good ol' S/370 iron. However, its performance was > rather poor compared to IBM's newer AS/400 family launched about the same > time as or just before the 9370. I know that this is not very helpful but I think the 9370 was announced in 1987, since I saw stuff on it during my summer job at IBM that year, and not the previous year. I never saw anything about the AS/400 at that date, nor even during my summer job the following year (although that latter was building cash dispensers, so I was a little out of touch with the rest of IBM) Anyway, at the time I regarded it as a mini-mainframe. Mini because it didn't need a separate computer room (and was advertised on this basis), mainframe because it was still huge and packed full of IBM custom hybrids (which were probably built of IBM custom chips), as well as the 370 compatibility... Philip. This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474

26 years, 3 months

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Would you take my PDP-8I for ?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

LOOKING FOR AN RM08 or..... Would be willing to trade me a transistor peripheral(s)for a major piece of equipment like a PDP-8I (mint, running of course) . I also have some major peripherals like the negibus floppy drive (Straight-8,8/S,8-I Sykes 7150 8" floppy), high speed paper tape and DF32 (I will only let the IC versions go). Don't get me wrong, I like the 8I... but I like the 8/S better. I am looking for any of these transistor peripherals: -- Type 451 card reader and control -- Type 451B fast card reader and control -- Type 450 card punch control for IBM Type 523 punch. -- Type 64 (later 645) Mohawk line printer and control -- Type 250 (RM08) serial magnetic drum -- Type 552 DECtape control -- Type 555 dual DECtape transport -- Type 57A magnetic tape control with IBM type 729 drive -- Type 580 magnetic tape system with one transport -- Type TC01 DECtape control for up to 8 TU55 transports. -- Type 251 drum (8-256 tracks, 8 sectors/track, 128 words/sector). -- Type 645 line printer control. -- Type 680 data communications system (allows 64 teletypes). ... well, maybe ;-) -- Type 338 Programmed Buffered Display (vector graphics). -- Type DF08 fixed head disk system -- Type BE01 OEM version of the TC01 (no blinking lights). -- Type BE03 dual TU55 drive for the TC01 or BE01. (I'm never going to know if I don't ask) john

26 years, 3 months

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New Finds

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>>I passed one up a couple of weeks ago. Seller was asking 95 pounds, was >>prepared to sell for 80, but no less - she claimed the Windows 95 >>installation on the hard drive was worth that. I told her just what I >>would do if I got a machine with Windows 95 on it... (hint: it involves >>a disk partitioning tool and a Linux distribution kit) >> >>Philip. >> > Are you sure this was a P70 (which usually shipped with 386s) and not a P75 > (which usually shipped with 486 or better processors)? I tried a Win '95 > installation on my 4MB RAM/120 MB HD/386 P70, and from "power on" to "ready > to use" took over two minutes. Trying to open any windows or run any > applications caused a frenzy of drive activity (reading and writing to the > swapfile, I suspect). I can't imagine anyone actually using a P70 running > Win '95. Running Windows 3.11 though, they were decent portables for their > time - nice crisp display, good keyboard. Very capable "get some work done > in your hotel room" computers. No, I'm not sure, but I thought it was a P70. (I wouldn't have bought it for 80 quid even if I had known/believed it had a 486 in.) It was a briefcase-sized thing that stood vertically - the keyboard flapped down (or took off - can't remember) and the plasma panel tilted out a little. As for your performance problems, based on your description of the "flurry of drive activity" I suspect that it would work better with more memory. No, I didn't ask how much memory this thing had. Much as I like plasma displays, I am not sorry I didn't buy this one. Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

26 years, 3 months

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Marks response [ebay reaches new low]

by helicopterman＠webtv.net

hi Mark, thank you for replying to my post. I AGREE WITH EACH STATEMENT YOU MAKE. ================================== on the other hand the bidders are happy. question: what would you do with 12 Univac side panels in 1999? i couldnt bring myself to put them in the dumpster. i have lots of trs-80 stuff in complete condition and i recently sold a kim-1 in mint condition which i purchased new in 75. i can store these smaller units but i could not continue to store the file 0. the file 0 took up 5 or 6 hundred square feet. in the early 90's i had to move from a commercial building to a small apartment. the file 0 weighed several tons:)) i stored it from 72 to early 90's because i loved old computers too. there was no ebay or collectors accessible to me then. i had no choice but to get rid of it like i did. IT BROKE MY HEART TO SCRAP IT. i would gladly have given it free to any purist. frankly though who would have been willing to transport 11 monster cabinets weighing several tons from Louisville to their back porch? i assume you have seen my Univac page where i am trying to save my memories and pictures of the few pieces that escaped the junk yard for interested people. it is at: http://members.tripod.com/~Helicopterman/blank-7.html it cost me 60.00 to have one panel cut into pieces and additional for the documents. at 5.00 per auction i about break even. i am not selling the "featureless" pieces for a profit but only to keep the file 0 memory alive. =====Ed

26 years, 3 months

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VAXStation 3100 problems :(

by ndiablo＠diablonet.net

I was looking at your message and a few other things came to mind.. I should really condense all my thoughts _before_ writing :) (1) I'd highly doubt the VS2000 graphics board would fit in the 3100.. I tried to check the size of a VS2000 memory board once (since my VS3100's failed and its only got 4 meg now) and it didnt fit, so i'd imagine it would be more or less the same scenario with the video card. (2) I dont know if you'd want to bother running Ultrix on the thing; you could either get a free license of OpenVMS 7.2 (newest version) from http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist, or you could run NetBSD on the system, which I gather runs _very_ well now that SCSI DMA has been implemented in the newest devel kernels. Using either of those routes, you'd at least get something pretty modern... Going back to Ultrix would mean digging up an old version with probably no support at all.. I gather that Ultrix wasnt a particularly great implementation of UNIX, either, however i've never actually used it myself so I guess I can't speak authoritively on the issue. -Sean Caron (root(a)diablonet.net)

26 years, 3 months

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FA (eBay) SBC collection: KIM-1, SYM, TK-80, and... lots of freebies

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Hi everyone I've not been following the list for some time, so please - replies to my personal email at adavie(a)mad.scientist.com I'm preparing for a planned interstate move sometime (as soon as possible), really. Everything must go! My prime reason for writing is to point to my current eBay auction of my Single Board Computer collection - comprising a KIM-1, a SYM, and a TK-80. There's a photo with the description, and if you're interested, the URL is... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=202377636 As I'm trying to cut down on the amount of stuff I'll have to move, I'm offering FREE to any worthwhile home some of the following... PDP 11/23PLUS, with assorted disk packs, monitors, tapes, etc. XEROX (unknown model) various interesting old computers, tapes TRS-80 Colour computer in original box. ... and lots more, really. I do have some machines which may be up for sale - or trade - please write to me if you would like notification of when I will get to these. These include Exidy Sorcerer lot (don't panic, Doug). - including 2 sorcerers, several disk drives, and hundreds of floppies. Australian Microbee computers (lots). (possibly) a Dulmont Magnum (possibly) a Datanumerics DL-8A Creativision with BASIC cartridge, tape unit. Hanimex Pencil II Sharp (sorry, model unknown - its buried in the garage) - takes magnetic bubble memory cartridges; of which I have a few. Tradewise, I'll be looking for a Hewlett-Packard HP-65 calculator, in particular. When I say (possibly) this means I basically know these machines are unique, and they're worth a lot to me. But, money is needed for the move. So... I'm based in Sydney (Australia). Anybody caring to drop in will probably leave with lots of interesting old junk! I have a heap of books/magazines, including technical documents for some interesting machines, such as the Microbee. Basically, I'm a pack-rat (aren't we all?) but have decided I really need to simplify my life. I hope this finds you all well, and enjoying your collecting! Cheers A -- Andrew Davie adavie(a)mad.scientist.com // adavie(a)comcen.com.au // adavie(a)bde.com.au Museum of Soviet Calculators http://members.xoom.com/adavie/soviet.html Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ Java Slide Rule http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/javaslide/javaslide.html

26 years, 3 months

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Ebay reaches new low

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>He's been doing this with various pieces of equipment (and I do mean "pieces") >for a while now. I'm not sure, but I think he may be the same guy who was >selling stuff like System/360 control panels, etc, saying "man, you should have >seen the rest of the machine before I scrapped it..". How is this any worse than many institutional and club computer museums, as well as individual collector's collections, which have a CPU but not the disk/tape drives and operating system? I agree, it's a shame, and in the perfect world there'd be a way to run old systems forever, but evidently folks' priorities aren't geared to keeping complete systems. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 3 months

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Old Computer stuff

by pmarzolf＠juno.com

From: Paul V. Marzolf 2761 Morningside Dr. Salt Lake City, Ut. 84124 Phone: (801) 277 7556 Email: pmarzolf(a)juno.com I don't know what I'm doing here but here it goes. I am looking for new homes for all the old computer stuff I have collected in my 40 years of working in the computer busness. I am a person that don't like to through any think away. I have hardware, books, manuals, magazines, and software. Here is a list of the hardware: ***LIST OF HARDWARE AND DOCUMENTATION*** COMPUTERS --------- 2 LOBO'S MAX80 - 5MHz Z-80B PROCESSOR 64k RAM. CP/M INCLUDED ALL DISK INTERFACE BUILT IN. PLUG IN ANY COMBINATION OF 5 1/4" FLOPPIES, 8" FLOPPIES, AND WINCHESTER DISK. CENTRONICS-TYPE PARALLEL PORT. BUILT-IN CLOCK/CALENDAR WITH BATTERY BACKUP, AND BUFFERED I/O EXPANDER PORT. 1 BOX OF DOCUMENTATION DUAL 8" DISK DRIVES (UNIVAC DRIVES) LOBO 5" HARD DISK DRIVE MONITOR ARC X-TURBO FLIP TOP CASE, 640K 8MHZ MOTHER BOARD, CLOCK/CALENDAR, TWO PAR, 2 SER, GAME PORT, 4 DRIVE CONTROLLER (RIBBON CABLES), 135W POWER SUPPLY, COLOR BOARD(RGB), 83 KEY KEYBOARD, TAXAN 415 MONITOR, THE HEART OF THE ARC X-TURBO IS THE INTEL 8088-2 MICRO-PROCESSOR USED IN THE IBM PERSONAL COMPUTER. TWO 5 1/4' FULL SIZE DISK DRIVES. TWO 5 1/4" HALF SIZE HIGH DENSITY EXTERNAL DISK DRIVES COMPAQ SUITE CASE PORTABLE (INTEL 8088) THE KEYBOARD IS THE LID. HAS BUILT IN MONITOR AND 2 5" FLOPPIES. THE SIZE OF THE CARRY AROUND IS 16" X 20" X 9". OTHER COMPUTER HARDWARE ----------------------- POWER SUPPLY FOR APPLE IIE MICROSOFT Z80 SOFTCARD - A PERIFHERAL FOR THE APPLE IIE WITH CP/M AND MICROSOFT BASIC ON 5" DISKETTE. EMPTY BOX FOR FULL SIZE 5" DISK DRIVE (FOR TRS-80) DUAL 5" DISK DRIVE UNIT 2 - DUAL 8" DISK DRIVE UNITS (UNIVAC) 2 - 8" DISK DRIVES DIRECT/ACOUSTICALLY COUPLED MODEM LEX-12 2 - UNIVERSAL DATA SYSTEMS 103 LP MODEM (ORIGINATE/ANSWER) DIAL PHONE TO USE WITH ABOVE MODEM PRINTERS UNVAC SERIAL PRINTER DOT MATRIX PRINTERS CITIZEN 2000GX PANASONIC KX-P1080i PANASONIC KX-P2023 UNVAC SERIAL PRINTER GORILLA/BANANA POWER SUPPLY HARDWARE. B6 ***BOX 9*** HARDWARE ACCESSORIES -------------------- ELBO ARM FOR COMPUTER. B9 HEAVY DUTY THAT CLAMP ONTO A DESK AND HOLDS A MONITOR AND KEYBOARD. TIP TABLE MONTIOR STAND. B9 3 PRINTER STANDS AND PAPER HOLDER. B9 2 5" DISKETTE TEAR HOLDER. B9 If interested I can send info about the computer stuff. Just ask???? It would be better for me if any response would use my E-mail address to talk to me. Hope someone will be interested. PAUL ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 3 months

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Famous Bill Gates Harvard ASR33 Clones!

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Famous Bill Gates Harvard ASR33 Clones! >At 06:43 PM 11/16/99 -0500, Dennis Aruta wrote: >> Thanks to all that have an interest in my 3 ASR33's with tape readers >>Since Bill Gates used one in his Dorm Room as an incentive to >>Microsoft, I have decided not to reply to the Firm offers I have received, >>but to place these machines on EBAY for Auction to establish the actual >>value. > >Sigh. > #1 it is unclear if Bill Gates *ever* had an ASR33 in his > Dorm room, that stupid and largely inaccurate TNT movie > not withstanding. > I don't think it really matters if Bill Gates used one. I am sure he used many other things we all use... and possibly things we would refuse to use ;-) > #2 it is unkind to misstate one's intentions, especially > to such a large group. > I think it's called "fishing" for $$$ >Next time please write: > > I'm going to try to squeeze every penny I can out of these > priceless historical pieces, even if it means melting them > down for their copper content. > >Rather than insinuate that you actually care whether or not the person who >gets them will preserve them or not. > >I don't believe there is anything "Wrong" with being cash greedy and >history foolish if you are honest about it.(look at all the money that was >made selling Egyption pyramid artifacts for their gold content!) Just >don't stop by this list and pretend you want them to go to a preservationist. > >Sigh, >--Chuck >

26 years, 3 months

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Looking for DEC card Reader: CR11 or CM11

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Gang: I'm interested in finding a card reader for my pdp-11 machines. The CR11 and CM11 models are what I'm looking for - they're a desktop variety that would work nicely with my current machines. Anyone out there have one they will part with? Kevin ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

26 years, 3 months

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TI99: Is the following true?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I never learned to like the CBASIC and others of its pseudocoded ilk. The MBASIC was OK, though, and when it was finally the way you wanted, "it" could be compiled with BASCOM, which generated fairly decent code, even assembler if you wanted. It could be linked with output from M80 as well. You could even generate code with which to band-aid together output from their (MS) Fortran and COBOL using either MBASIC =>BASCOM=> (object linkable with L80) + output from compilers => thereby genrating interactive code from stuff that was originally designed for batch. That was more common than you might think. It was, after all, customary to scrounge useable FTN and COBOL >from the guys down the hall. My ex-partner made LOTS of dough using CP/M and these various compilers to generate useable output from long-obsolete but still functional code written for the mainframe down the hall. I guess that's why he got the big bucks. It was not unusual to have the payroll running on the micro while the figured out why they couldn't make it work on the behemoth. Even I was fairly impressed with the selection of stuff Billy and his buddies turned out! Dick Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:48 PM Subject: RE: TI99: Is the following true? ><QBASIC was available for the M9900 from Marinchip for $220, according to ><their ad. It was a compiled Basic, article states you didn't need line ><numbers! Sounds like Microsoft stole from Marinchip, too, since this versio ><was available in 1981 for the Marinchip 9900 system! > >Ah, kids! > >Prior to the advent of the PC in 1981: > >Qbasic was a MS product befor they became a OS house. They used to be >heavy in languages and big apps. DRI (AKA CPM) was know for the OSs. > >MS offered languages and apps like Multiplan for APPLE (6502), 9900, >8080/z80, 16032, z8000 and I'm certain I've forgotten a few. > >So anywho, Qbasic was the MS answer to C-basic which was a semi compiled >non line number dependent basic. Qbasic is not fully compiled to native >machine assembly language. I know this as I still maintain a PC app >written in Qbasic (as recently as last week)! Qbasic also tried to copy >the Borland "IDE" <Integrated Development Environment> used the Turbo<insert >language here> they had for z80 and later PCs, in that you could edit, run >interpretively and then compile the working result. > >Oh, Qbasic also called runtime subroutines from the library for floating >point math (and other things too). > >Allison > > > >< ><> ---------- ><> From: Andy Frueh[SMTP:andyfrueh@hotmail.com] ><> Reply To: ti99(a)theriver.com ><> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:16 PM ><> To: ti99(a)theriver.com ><> Subject: RE: TI99: Is the following true? ><> ><> Hmmm...I guess where I'm getting confused is the way it handles floating ><> point...It DOES "do it" but it does it by converting it to an integer, ><> right? I guess that's what non-coprocessor machines must do, too. ><> ><> Oh well, 3 and 4 are still true, and I really dispute this is a "real" ><> story, even if elements of it ARE true. Especially that quote! :-) ><> ><> I don't have the magazine to look this up. Can we get more info on this ><> BASIC? ><> ><> ><> >From: "Yates, Ben" <BYates(a)mobilnet.gte.com> ><> >Reply-To: ti99(a)theriver.com ><> >To: "'ti99(a)theriver.com'" <ti99(a)theriver.com> ><> >Subject: RE: TI99: Is the following true? ><> >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:07:34 -0500 ><> > ><> >Look in the July/August 81 99'er magazine. Marinchip created a 9900 base ><> >system. ><> >To answer your questions: ><> >The 9900 cannot do floating point in hardware. Neither could the 8088 or ><> >286 ><> >without coprocessors. It emulates it in the ROM. ><> >QBASIC WAS a basic that sold for $220 (find it in the above magazine). ><> > ><> > ><> > > ---------- ><> > > From: Andy Frueh[SMTP:andyfrueh@hotmail.com] ><> > > Reply To: ti99(a)theriver.com ><> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:02 PM ><> > > To: ti99(a)theriver.com ><> > > Subject: Re: TI99: Is the following true? ><> > > ><> > > 1. Who would name their computer PC/OT given what that means? ><> > > 2. Can't the 9900 DO floating point? Why emulate it? ><> > > 3. When has a governor EVER cared about technology...or publicly made ><> >such ><> > > ><> > > silly comments? ><> > > 4. The R in RISC means Reduced, not rinkydink ><> > > 5. AFAIK, QBASIC is a MS program, and not something that runs on a ><> 9900 ><> > > ><> > > Based on that, I'd guess the following is NOT true. :-) ><> > > ><> > > ><> > > >From: "Yates, Ben" <BYates(a)mobilnet.gte.com> ><> > > >Reply-To: ti99(a)theriver.com ><> > > >To: "'ti99(a)TheRiver.com'" <ti99(a)TheRiver.com> ><> > > >Subject: TI99: Is the following true? ><> > > >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:46:43 -0500 ><> > > > ><> > > >from http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/section2_46_5.html ><> > > > ><> > > > <<...>> <<...>> <<...>> <<...>> <<...>> ><> > > >Next: Dear Jim Meadlock... Up: AutoBits Previous: CAD: The Final ><> > > > ><> > > >Marinchip Defeats IBM PC/AT In Benchmark ><> > > > ><> > > >Mill Valley, California, Mayday 1986. ><> > > >John Walker, President of Marinchip Systems Ltd., announced today ><> that ><> > > the ><> > > >Marinchip 9900-based PC/OT (Personal Computer/Obsolete Technology) ><> > > >resoundingly defeated the IBM PC/AT in an intense floating point ><> > > benchmark, ><> > > >even though the PC/AT was equipped with the 80287 math coprocessor. ><> > > >The benchmark was an optical ray tracing program involving primaril ><> > > >floating point computations, including evaluation of trigonometric ><> > > >functions. The Marinchip 9900 PC/OT executed the program in 69.32 ><> > > seconds, ><> > > >while the IBM PC/AT took 93.79 seconds to execute the same program. ><> > > >``Our PC/OT executed this real-world engineering program 26 percent ><> > > faster ><> > > >than IBM's much vaunted PC/AT, even though our 9900 processor was ><> > > operating ><> > > >at 2 megahertz, one third the speed of the PC/AT's 80286 CPU, and th ><> > > fact ><> > > >that the PC/OT was emulating floating point in software instead of ><> >using ><> > > a ><> > > >mathematics coprocessor. This benchmark vindicates our RISC ><> (Rinkydink ><> > > >Instruction Set Computer) architecture, and clearly demonstrates th ><> > > >superiority of our proprietary QBASIC language for scientific ><> > > >applications.'', said John Walker. ><> > > >The IBM PC/AT benchmark was run in Lattice C version 2.14, using th ><> > > ``-P'' ><> > > >memory model (large code, small data). The standard Lattice 2.14 ><> >library ><> > > >was ><> > > >used. The results calculated by the Marinchip PC/OT and the IBM PC/A ><> > > >agreed ><> > > >to 15 decimal places. ><> > > >Commenting on the results, California Governor George Dookmayjeun ><> said, ><> > > >``It ><> > > >just goes to show you how a bunch of clean living Californians can ><> beat ><> > > the ><> > > >spit out of those drug-soaked greasy Florida scumbags. Look, I don't ><> >give ><> > > a ><> > > >flying fork what you quote me as saying, but please spell my freakin ><> > > name ><> > > >right!''. <<...>> ><> > > > ><> > > >Editor: John Walker ><> > > > ><> > > > ><> > > ><> > > ______________________________________________________ ><> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ><> > > ><> > ><> > ><> ><> ______________________________________________________ ><> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ><> >< >

26 years, 3 months

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Convergent Technologies WorkSlate

by Maddog1331＠aol.com

Hey, I was wondering...could any of you folks help me give a value to a Convergent Technologies workSlate? It has a printer with it...but as of yet I havent found the power cords....I bought like a truckload of old computer stuff the other day (the collectors dream man...tons of stuff), that had a bunch of Sinclair 1000s, boxed 16k ram for the Sinclairs, Boxed TI/99s, and a bunch of other stuff I havent went through. Anyway, the workSlate was the only thing I had never seen before! I am really curious about it! I hope to find the power cords and such and get it to working. But right now, I just need to know what kind of value it is. Could you help me? Thanks! Mark Saarinen

26 years, 3 months

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TI99: Is the following true?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<QBASIC was available for the M9900 from Marinchip for $220, according to <their ad. It was a compiled Basic, article states you didn't need line <numbers! Sounds like Microsoft stole from Marinchip, too, since this versio <was available in 1981 for the Marinchip 9900 system! Ah, kids! Prior to the advent of the PC in 1981: Qbasic was a MS product befor they became a OS house. They used to be heavy in languages and big apps. DRI (AKA CPM) was know for the OSs. MS offered languages and apps like Multiplan for APPLE (6502), 9900, 8080/z80, 16032, z8000 and I'm certain I've forgotten a few. So anywho, Qbasic was the MS answer to C-basic which was a semi compiled non line number dependent basic. Qbasic is not fully compiled to native machine assembly language. I know this as I still maintain a PC app written in Qbasic (as recently as last week)! Qbasic also tried to copy the Borland "IDE" <Integrated Development Environment> used the Turbo<insert language here> they had for z80 and later PCs, in that you could edit, run interpretively and then compile the working result. Oh, Qbasic also called runtime subroutines from the library for floating point math (and other things too). Allison < <> ---------- <> From: Andy Frueh[SMTP:andyfrueh@hotmail.com] <> Reply To: ti99(a)theriver.com <> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:16 PM <> To: ti99(a)theriver.com <> Subject: RE: TI99: Is the following true? <> <> Hmmm...I guess where I'm getting confused is the way it handles floating <> point...It DOES "do it" but it does it by converting it to an integer, <> right? I guess that's what non-coprocessor machines must do, too. <> <> Oh well, 3 and 4 are still true, and I really dispute this is a "real" <> story, even if elements of it ARE true. Especially that quote! :-) <> <> I don't have the magazine to look this up. Can we get more info on this <> BASIC? <> <> <> >From: "Yates, Ben" <BYates(a)mobilnet.gte.com> <> >Reply-To: ti99(a)theriver.com <> >To: "'ti99(a)theriver.com'" <ti99(a)theriver.com> <> >Subject: RE: TI99: Is the following true? <> >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:07:34 -0500 <> > <> >Look in the July/August 81 99'er magazine. Marinchip created a 9900 base <> >system. <> >To answer your questions: <> >The 9900 cannot do floating point in hardware. Neither could the 8088 or <> >286 <> >without coprocessors. It emulates it in the ROM. <> >QBASIC WAS a basic that sold for $220 (find it in the above magazine). <> > <> > <> > > ---------- <> > > From: Andy Frueh[SMTP:andyfrueh@hotmail.com] <> > > Reply To: ti99(a)theriver.com <> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:02 PM <> > > To: ti99(a)theriver.com <> > > Subject: Re: TI99: Is the following true? <> > > <> > > 1. Who would name their computer PC/OT given what that means? <> > > 2. Can't the 9900 DO floating point? Why emulate it? <> > > 3. When has a governor EVER cared about technology...or publicly made <> >such <> > > <> > > silly comments? <> > > 4. The R in RISC means Reduced, not rinkydink <> > > 5. AFAIK, QBASIC is a MS program, and not something that runs on a <> 9900 <> > > <> > > Based on that, I'd guess the following is NOT true. :-) <> > > <> > > <> > > >From: "Yates, Ben" <BYates(a)mobilnet.gte.com> <> > > >Reply-To: ti99(a)theriver.com <> > > >To: "'ti99(a)TheRiver.com'" <ti99(a)TheRiver.com> <> > > >Subject: TI99: Is the following true? <> > > >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:46:43 -0500 <> > > > <> > > >from http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/section2_46_5.html <> > > > <> > > > <<...>> <<...>> <<...>> <<...>> <<...>> <> > > >Next: Dear Jim Meadlock... Up: AutoBits Previous: CAD: The Final <> > > > <> > > >Marinchip Defeats IBM PC/AT In Benchmark <> > > > <> > > >Mill Valley, California, Mayday 1986. <> > > >John Walker, President of Marinchip Systems Ltd., announced today <> that <> > > the <> > > >Marinchip 9900-based PC/OT (Personal Computer/Obsolete Technology) <> > > >resoundingly defeated the IBM PC/AT in an intense floating point <> > > benchmark, <> > > >even though the PC/AT was equipped with the 80287 math coprocessor. <> > > >The benchmark was an optical ray tracing program involving primaril <> > > >floating point computations, including evaluation of trigonometric <> > > >functions. The Marinchip 9900 PC/OT executed the program in 69.32 <> > > seconds, <> > > >while the IBM PC/AT took 93.79 seconds to execute the same program. <> > > >``Our PC/OT executed this real-world engineering program 26 percent <> > > faster <> > > >than IBM's much vaunted PC/AT, even though our 9900 processor was <> > > operating <> > > >at 2 megahertz, one third the speed of the PC/AT's 80286 CPU, and th <> > > fact <> > > >that the PC/OT was emulating floating point in software instead of <> >using <> > > a <> > > >mathematics coprocessor. This benchmark vindicates our RISC <> (Rinkydink <> > > >Instruction Set Computer) architecture, and clearly demonstrates th <> > > >superiority of our proprietary QBASIC language for scientific <> > > >applications.'', said John Walker. <> > > >The IBM PC/AT benchmark was run in Lattice C version 2.14, using th <> > > ``-P'' <> > > >memory model (large code, small data). The standard Lattice 2.14 <> >library <> > > >was <> > > >used. The results calculated by the Marinchip PC/OT and the IBM PC/A <> > > >agreed <> > > >to 15 decimal places. <> > > >Commenting on the results, California Governor George Dookmayjeun <> said, <> > > >``It <> > > >just goes to show you how a bunch of clean living Californians can <> beat <> > > the <> > > >spit out of those drug-soaked greasy Florida scumbags. Look, I don't <> >give <> > > a <> > > >flying fork what you quote me as saying, but please spell my freakin <> > > name <> > > >right!''. <<...>> <> > > > <> > > >Editor: John Walker <> > > > <> > > > <> > > <> > > ______________________________________________________ <> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com <> > > <> > <> > <> <> ______________________________________________________ <> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com <> <

26 years, 3 months

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TI99: Is the following true?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Look in the July/August 81 99'er magazine. Marinchip created a 9900 based <system. I've always wanted one of their S100 based 9900 cards, it was a nice 16bitter for the time. maybe its the same one. Besides the 9900 was a very good CISC instruction set and I'd considered it second to the PDP-11. Of course both are minicomputers (or based on one ti990). Allison

26 years, 3 months

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Famous Bill Gates Harvard ASR33 Clones!

by denic＠liii.com

Thanks to all that have an interest in my 3 ASR33's with tape readers Since Bill Gates used one in his Dorm Room as an incentive to Microsoft, I have decided not to reply to the Firm offers I have received, but to place these machines on EBAY for Auction to establish the actual value. When and if I do this I will e-mail an announcemnet to you. If you are bothered by this e-mail and do not wish to participate, please reply and I will delete your address. Otherwise I just may put them instorage for my GrandChildren! :~) Best Regards. Dennis Aruta, Owner ShipFix (c) & International Commerce List (c), <a href="http://members.aol.com./denicny/trade.html"> INTERNATIONAL COMMERCE + SHIPS </a> <a href="http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb522111"> Visit my Message Board </a> FireTalk 34260 denic ICQ #174727 Mailing address: Denar Chartering Inc.(since 1971) Phone: 516-326-2300 P.O. Box 1147, Denar House Fax: 516-326-2519 New Hyde Park N.Y. 11040 Tlx: 4971419 U.S.A. email: Denic(a)liii.com DenicNY(a)aol.com

26 years, 3 months

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If this is what I think it is...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I have a device labeled a "VIKING UDT" that purports to be a Unibus SCSI disk controller. Anyone have more info on this? -------

26 years, 3 months

2
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VAXStation 3100 problems :(

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" <vaxman(a)uswest.net> wrote: > Now, if i remember the VS2000 stuff correctly, > > Finally, does anyone know what the lowest version of Ultrix that will > run on this box is? Since there was both VS2000 and VS3100 stuff here, I'm not sure I'm answering the right question, but I have personally loaded Ultrix T-2.0 on a VS2000. We got a prerelease version from DEC way back when. I do not know if Ultrix 1.1 will run on a MicroVAX of any kind (but it will run on a VAX-11/730 - I used it to attach our company to Usenet before the great renaming). -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 3 months

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DEC Handbooks

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: > > Can anyone please point me at a complete(ish) list of all the various > > PDP/VAX related DEC handbooks? > > > > TIA. > > > > TTFN - Pete. > > Best list I know of is the list Megan has on her web pages, sorry don't have > the URL. I happen to be working on a list this week... it's not *all* the handbooks, but it's all the ones that _I_ have. I'm about 10% done. http://penguincentral.com/cgi-penguincentral/dwg?file=docs/data/handbooks.t… Also... I'm inventorying the two boxes of B-sized prints I found in the attic this last week (after a six month search!). Neither is exhaustive, but the first box is at least all listed by the identity of the cover sheet (since many of the print sets contain entire other prints sets in their own rights). I'm going through the second box more carefully for the first pass. It's a good thing I did: I found a ASR-33 test/adjustment document at the back of something completely different. All I need now is a set of feeler gauges. http://penguincentral.com/cgi-penguincentral/dwg?file=docs/data/box1.txt http://penguincentral.com/cgi-penguincentral/dwg?file=docs/data/box2.txt Before anyone asks, no, I haven't scanned any of this. I do not have access to an 11"x17" scanner. I wish I did. The CGI script is just something I whipped up for basic formatting to turn a comma-separated file into a table with the CGI.pm module in perl. The greatest perk of my current assignment is that we use OO perl for production code. I've picked up quite an arsenal of perl tricks over the past six months. Eventually, I'll be sprucing up the retrocomputing pages at... http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/ ... but it's not high on the list of things to do this month. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 3 months

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Prime 2550 possibly available

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Saturday, November 13, 1999 12:48 AM, John Lawson [SMTP:jpl15@netcom.com] wrote: > > > I have been thinkin' lately that perhaps I oughta stick strictly > to DEC Stuff... and I am trying to reduce the tonnage around here. > > So I gets to lookin' at the bee-yoo-tee-full PR1ME mainframe that > I actually paid to rescue. And it ain't got no DEC logos on it nowhere. > I've got a 2550 with a bad CPU. Just wondering if you've got any spare parts laying about? Thanks, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 3 months

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OT: A Unix question (the TALK function).....

by arfonrg＠texas.net

Well, TALK is an old command so, maybe it's not off topic.... Can anyone tell me what's going on... When I "talk wolf(a)hera.dominion.net", it SEEMS to make a connection then I get "[Checking for invitation on caller's machine]" and it sits there... mocking me. (Stupid machine). Talk works fine when myself and the person I am trying to contact are on the same machine. What is the deal? A ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 3 months

4
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E.U.N.U.C.H.

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

Mineral oil has been done; check out the Dr. Ffreeze project (with pictures) at: http://www.accsdata.com/drffreeze/Default.htm Cheers, Mark. -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 1:41 PM Subject: Re: E.U.N.U.C.H. >How about submerging the whole MB in a container of Mineral oil or >anti-freeze with a circulation pump? Is anti-freeze conductive? I'd like >to try that! > >

26 years, 3 months

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Help identify a 'luggable'

by truthanl＠oclc.org

Any Compaq stickers on ROM chips? 8088 Processor? Compaq Logo posted on boot? or Compaq BIOS message? It can't be that clean!! Their original video card which did either color or mono should also have Compaq Specific ROM stickers.and Perhap Paradise Palm Tree logos etched on the card. FCCID labels on the Main Board should be tracible to Compaq. Compaq was very proud to have Clean "Compatible" Bios I was the Owner of Luggable Serial # ??000029. I should have my manuals somewhere. Power supply was the weakness early luggables had. Does it power up? -----Original Message----- From: Mzthompson(a)aol.com [mailto:Mzthompson@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 3:36 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Help identify a 'luggable' I am trying to help someone identify a machine. They believe it is a Compaq 'luggable', but the name plates have been removed. Following is some info. I realize it is not much to go, but if anyone has some insight, I would appreaciate it. Mike *outside dimensions width 19", length 17", height 7 1/2 " * keyboard has spiral cable from back right of keyboard to main case, and has sliders that move toward center of back of kb to unlock *monitor is 'orange', left edge is 3 5/8 inches in from left outside right edge is 11 1/4 " from left outside * power/reset push buttom is near bottom of front panel, center 6 1/2 " >from right side, center measurement * opening for diskette drives ( a 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 ) has left edge 6 5/8 inches from right side * there are apparently nameplate 'places' at back left of keyboard top left on from panel * keyboard has 3 red lights at back left labeled ( left to right ) caps lock num lock scroll lock * on the left side ( looking from the front ) is a sliding door with access to end of circuit boards inside for plugs a rocker switch labeled - MONO RGB * on right side door fan power switch socket for AC power cord

26 years, 3 months

1
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IBM 9370 Mainframe Specs?

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

There is an IBM 9370 Mainframe coming available in my area, and I'm considering acquiring it (never had my own mainframe to play with). I haven't been able to find much on the Web about this family of systems. Can anyone point me to some info or confirm/deny the following facts: System produced: circa 1986 - 1988 Intended market: "departmental mainframe", 20-100 users Operating system: VM/SE Dimensions: Refridgeratorish Weight: 300 lb racks; 200-300 lb processor assembly; drives ??? Typical peripherals: DASD drives, high-volume, heavy printers (500 lbs +), tape drives, PS/2 consoles Networking: ASCII subsystem for terminals, Ethernet? Power and Cooling requirements: 3 phase power (240 V)?? I suspect that this system will be too large for my available space; is anyone else in or near Western Canada interested in the system in whole or in part? Thanks for any help. Mark Gregory

26 years, 3 months

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Help identify a 'luggable'

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

I am trying to help someone identify a machine. They believe it is a Compaq 'luggable', but the name plates have been removed. Following is some info. I realize it is not much to go, but if anyone has some insight, I would appreaciate it. Mike *outside dimensions width 19", length 17", height 7 1/2 " * keyboard has spiral cable from back right of keyboard to main case, and has sliders that move toward center of back of kb to unlock *monitor is 'orange', left edge is 3 5/8 inches in from left outside right edge is 11 1/4 " from left outside * power/reset push buttom is near bottom of front panel, center 6 1/2 " >from right side, center measurement * opening for diskette drives ( a 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 ) has left edge 6 5/8 inches from right side * there are apparently nameplate 'places' at back left of keyboard top left on from panel * keyboard has 3 red lights at back left labeled ( left to right ) caps lock num lock scroll lock * on the left side ( looking from the front ) is a sliding door with access to end of circuit boards inside for plugs a rocker switch labeled - MONO RGB * on right side door fan power switch socket for AC power cord

26 years, 3 months

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Jumper settings for TEAC FD235HF p/n 19307322-17

by Sid.Payne＠radisys.com

Do you have jumper setting descriptions for this ? H-HO OP LHI HHI

26 years, 3 months

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Computers and other hardware containing the 8008 microprocessor

by jlewczyk＠his.com

Hi, I'm trying to compile a list of computers and other hardware that contained the venerable Intel 8008 microprocessor. So far this is the list of 8008 based computers that have been made aware of: 1973 "Micral" by R2E (later merged with Bull) Made in France 1973 "Intellec-8" by Intel (development system) 1974 "Scelbi-8H" by Scelbi Consulting (kit and assembled) 1974 "Mark-8" by Jon Titus in Radio Electronics 7/74. Plans and PC boards only. 1974 "008A Microcomputer Kit" RGS Electonics. Plans and all parts, except cabinet and assorted hardware. ? PopTronics (Popular Electronics?) <-- Does anyone know anything about this? What issue would it have been in if it was in that magazine. ? Homebrew systems. I'll compile a list of people who have made these if they want to go public :-) Got a picture? I'd like to also compile a list of other 8008 based machines - one where the 8008 was an embedded controller. If you have any info, such as manufacturer, model number, date of introduction, etc. please let me know. ? Terminal (Not Datapoint I understand, perhaps Beehive?) ? Front panel of a PDP-11? computer ? Instrument Test equipment ? Pinball Machine ! Datapoint 2200 (architecture was the model for the 8008, was built using LSI, not an 8008) Can you contribute anything to this list? I'll post it on my web site and hope to catch comments, add facts to it. Post to the list or to me if you'd like. Thanks! John Lewczyk jlewczyk(a)his.com www.his.com\jlewczyk

26 years, 3 months

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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Just curious. What motivates someone to collect old minis and mainframes?? <I can see it being nice to look at for a while, but something as big as a m <very cumbersome to have around the house (let alone an apartment). And wha ..... Well my largest is the 8F maybe one of the VAXen. The S100 crates do weigh in though. Seriously, I use the S100 z80 systems for 8085/z80/804x/8051/1802 development actively. There are somethings that a emulator on a PC will not prove out. The PDP-11s are active machines for expeimentation with older IO cards some sound stuff and a robust os. Vaxen 3100s and MVIIs, I like VMS and it's reliability. I keep them active and plan to replace the @#$%^&&! PC with something I can eventually run a 24x365 connection to the net. the PDP-8 and DECMATE-III are for PDP-8 programming and hacking. Of all the machines these do get less than an hour a week on average. Lack of mass storage on the 8F partly to blame. Still it's convenient and has a front pannel so I'll turn it on and run Acc inchworm or try a few dozen bytes of code just because. Core is nice for that. None of these are mainframe class but, if you add them all up including the SBCs (all the working hardware that is) there are more than 30 systems. Practical use... They are all practical, speed often is not a consideration and in some cases they do ok for themselves. Unlike old cars and the like using them is good for them. Allison

26 years, 3 months

3
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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by truthanl＠oclc.org

Bruce, I have a MicroVax I I have been able to communicate to it using a terminal emulator into one of its serial ports. I believe it has VMS 4.X? loaded, But it has been too long since I last had it running. I was able to list devices, But now I forget the login process. I have always wanted to get more mainstream with a version Unix for this Box. What can you tell me of freeBSD Unix? What is it's distribution media? This unit has the 5.25 floppies, which I dont recall ever being able to boot (Only because I don't know VMS, nor do I know what programs or utilities I have on Floppy that are "Bootable"). Where do I start? Learn VMS or Learn hardware requirement for, and get FreeBSD? Hardware is rock solid. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane [mailto:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:41 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Dont want to start a flame war here but At 23:21 15-11-1999 -0500, somebody wrote: ><Just curious. What motivates someone to collect old minis and mainframes?? ><I can see it being nice to look at for a while, but something as big as a m ><very cumbersome to have around the house (let alone an apartment). And wha <snip> You seem to be under the mistaken impression that all minis and mainframes are huge monsters. While this may be true of most mainframes, and some minis, there are many that are not much bigger than a large tower PC. My reasons for collecting the beasties are, like Allison's, a mix of practical and a dislike of modern "commoditized" hardware that seems to be built specifically not be reparable at the component level. I have here mostly MicroVAX, MicroPDP, and some Sun SPARCs (not quite classics yet -- give it another year or so). The MicroVAXen run NetBSD (a free Unix OS) exceptionally well, are built like the proverbial tank, and are readily reparable in the rare event that something goes flooey. I have one MV III that will become my news and FTP server. Once NetBSD 1.5 gets released, it is likely that either one of my 3100's or the DECStation RISC box I have will become a mail server. Web will be handled either by another MV III or a Sun box. I've yet to decide for certain. The MicroPDP's I have are idle at the moment. I want to find a decent Unix load for them. Failing that, I will probably trade them off to one or more of my fellow list members for other goodies. Others have asked me why I don't just go with a bunch of PCs running Linux. The answer is 'Robustness.' While some PCs have gotten much more reliable, hardware-wise, I've yet to see any such system that's built to the same standards as the DEC hardware. Even Sun, in many cases, makes use of more plastic than I'd usually prefer to see. Technical and design excellence is a top priority with me, even if it costs a little more to use or the rest of the world has abandoned it. Case in point: My cellphone is an older Motorola 'flip' style, one of their first-generation digital TDMA units. It only works digital on AT&T's network, hasn't been manufactured for several years, and lacks the fancy LCD and whizzy features of the modern units. HOWEVER -- it's built very well, and it fits my hand and face far better than any of the "toy" cellphones being pushed by the resellers. BTW, off-topic, but if anyone knows of a "sports" or "rugged duty" cellphone, I'd sure like to hear about it. None of the "smaller and lighter" craze units I've seen even come close. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 3 months

3
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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by mrdos＠swbell.net

I collect because it's fun, and useful. I still type papers and reports on my old Apple IIe. I love restoring computers that are in less than good condition. Right now I'm restoring an old Altos. Its in awful shape. I have to replace 3/4 of the ICs, a lot of the capacitors, and maybe even find/build a new power supply. But I'm looking forward to it, not dreading it. I have a computer in almost every room of the house. Everywhere you look you see a Nova, TRS-80, System/3x, and everything else you can think of. It really is fun. And there are a lot of collectors who would agree with me.

26 years, 3 months

4
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DEC Handbooks

by peter.pachla＠wintermute.org.uk

Can anyone please point me at a complete(ish) list of all the various PDP/VAX related DEC handbooks? TIA. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk | peter.pachla(a)virgin.net | peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk --

26 years, 3 months

2
3
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DEC Handbooks

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Best list I know of is the list Megan has on her web pages, sorry don't >have the URL. Thanks for the compliment... http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_handbooks.html And the companion list of DEC reference cards: http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_refcards.html >Someone, whose name escapes me (something like Kevin Stumpf maybe), is >working on a list for a book he's doing (he's a list member and asked >about this a few months ago). Yep, he's the one... I basically put my list together to send to him, then I turned it into a web page (which still needs work). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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Fireproofing questions

by truthanl＠oclc.org

-----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney [mailto:af-list@is1.wfi-inc.com] Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 8:22 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Fireproofing questions Hi all, .. I placed a hot clothes iron on the outer wall and measured the temperature/rate of climb on the inner wall, as well as the ambient temperature inside the cabinet. It was enough that, even with a comparatively small heat source (well, to a garage fire, anyway), anything within a few inches of the inner wall would have most definitely been damaged, and possibly items close to the center after a half-hour of exposure to the heat source. Aaron asks: is there something anyone could recommend that would make a good lining for the inner walls of the cabinet to insulate it from heat? Drywall/ sheetrock/ Gypsum Board. Clipped or cemented in place. Its common, Its Flat, the Gypsum part wont flame. Its Fire rated. The expanding foam is definately NOT what you want. Its chemical composition provides fuel and oxygen to fire. If you have voids to fill - Plaster? OR High Density FiberGlass Panels as in Commercial Drop-Cieling Panel Tiles. This stuff is densely pressed, (Often embossed with a pattern) The Commercial grade panels are somewhat rigid - but also fire rated for close proximity to commercial lighting. Note the stuff is pressed class fiber - Not impregnated, bound, or laminated with epoxy or polyester resin. The resins also support Flame with out need of too much oxygen.

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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VAXStation 3100 problems :(

by ndiablo＠diablonet.net

Well, I can tell you that the "1" means that the network interface is not terminated.. hook up a transciever to the AUI port or put some terminators on the BNC port and that error should go away.. I can't quite remember what "4" is though ;) -Sean Caron (root(a)diablonet.net)

26 years, 3 months

2
1
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Customs Tricks (was: Re: Whoohoo! Fortune Telling...

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Customs Tricks (was: Re: Whoohoo! Fortune Telling... >Rumor has it that John B may have mentioned these words: > >>>Which *your* do you mean? On which side of the creek do you reside? ;-) >> >>I reside in Canada.... > >O.K. I'm on the US side in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. One thing I can tell >you that here we only have 2 donut shops, and they're pretty decent - in a >city of 14,000 it doesn't pay to kill off the locals... ;-) (Sault, Ontario >has over 80,000 people, I believe, so they have more donut shops to choose >from.) If ever we all meet in Niagara Falls, New York, avoid the donut shops! > OLC has an office up there. To be fair to the province they have their quarterly meetings in each "quadrant" of Ontario.. He complains about the Sault.. >>You got it! Yes sir, no sir, can I wipe your.... > >:-) Ain't that the truth! :-) > >>In Canada they move the agents A LOT! They make sure you won't get someone >>you know everytime... plus a lot of summer students. > >Wow... must be that small-town stuff again. Most all agents even on the >Canadian side here are over 30, so either they're *really* old students or >they don't have access to many students up here. On the US side here, >someone has to die if you want a job at Customs, so I'm somewhat chummy >with most of the officers here. [[And that's the "important" side for me... >Canada's usually quite easy: "Citizenship?" US. (sometimes with a thumb >pointed south... ;-) "Why're ya coming to Canada?" Shop. "How long you >gonna be here?" Couplhours. "Bringing anything?" Nah. "Go ahead."]] HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH... Verbatim... Our line is always: Where are you going? Factory outlet malls on Military Road. (A lot more believable if my wife is in the car ;-) ) > >Oh, and don't think the fact your car/truck is nice and shiny and clean and >tuned will that keep you from getting stopped. Luck has everything to do >with it, and if the officer you pull up to got lucky the night before, it's >a breeze. If not... :-( Agreed. > >I went to Canada once, wearing greasy sweats, hadn't shaved for a week and >wore a baseball cap that said "Candy is dandy but sex won't rot your teeth" >;-), truck barely ran, needed brakes & squealed badly whenever you appled >them, muddy as hell, was an *absolute* mess (including 2 US military >uniforms crumpled on the passanger side), the bed of the truck was full of >trash, most of which was vegetative (which is a *big* no-no when crossing >the border) and the guard asked my citizenship, looked at me funny and >waved me thru. > >The next week: fixed, tuned & washed the truck, cleaned, vacuumed and >dusted the interior, cleaned out the bed fully, was dressed in a white >shirt and tie, fresh haircut... and Bam! The only time I've been pulled >over at Canadian Customs. The truck got tagged, they pulled me into the >shack, and I got grilled for 20 minutes about everything from what I had >for breakfast to the color of my underwear. And... interrogations from >border guards are akin to the CIA... They don't *ask* questions. > I have seen it happen many times. More often I watch people get busted for hiding booze in the spare tire. Funniest one was once I saw this car speed through.. sirens went off, and the trunk popped open.. A bunch of Immigrants went running in every direction. >"Yes, Mr. .... Merfriglburger" > "That's Mer\sssh\berger" >"Yea, whatever. You work at Can-Am?" > "Yes." >"And you make $3.75 per hour?" > "Yes." (getting a bit upset at that...) >"You crossed into Canada 6 1/2 days ago?" > "Yes." (thinking... Damn, I'd love to see their network system!) > (This was 13-14 years ago, after all...) >"And you *say* you're coming here for the same reason this week?" > "Yes, the Radio Shack still has a sale on, and I got paid today." >"Yea, whatever. How much money do you have on your person?" > (I *damn* near said "You know everything else about me... > you don't know that, too?" Gratefully, I held my forked tongue ;-) > "Hummmm... $65-odd cash Canadian, and I guess around $45-$50 US." > (and yes, you can be refused entry into *either* country > based on vagrancy - If you don't have enough cash to sustain It works both ways.. You get tossed if you don't have enough or you get beaten with drug charges if you have more than $10K. > you during your stay in said foriegn land, you'll be sent packing.) >"Thank you. Please replace all of your personal items and be on your way." > >I stepped outside and everything but the steering wheel & seat were removed >from my truck... including the contents of the glove compartment & other >places of "personal" storage. > >[[Editor's note - I'm not just picking on Canadian Customs - Years ago >(when I was an infant, so that's ~30 years ago) my parents were coming back >into the US when US customs stopped them, tore the car apart *including the >seats*. When they were all done, they said "You can go. You have 15 minutes >to be out of the building." *thankfully* my dad is one hell of a mechanic >and had a full toolset with him and could reinstall the seats in a few >minutes - despite the fact the tools were spread in a 10 foot radius around >the car. No joke.]] > >Customs can be your friend, or they can be the most sadistic bastards >you've ever known. Be nice to them even if they're assholes - or you'll >regret it if you do any border crossing at all. > Sadistic?? HAM RADIO GUYS CAN BE SADISTIC. I use to go to hamfests to pick up pdp 11 stuff. One year there was a show in Buffalo (convention center I think).. A Ham Radio guy I knew was still pissed off with the stuff I got from the last Ham Fest (he missed it as I got there early)... so what did he do???? He called the US Customs office. Gave them MY plate, car, and where I was going... He told them I was smuggling RAM chips in the car. (remember when a meg of Dynamic Ram was $1000?). Well, when I pulled up I heard 3 buzzers go off. They customs guy asked me who I was.. took my license and *told* me to pull over. They pulled apart the car. After finding nothing they told me they were looking for smuggled RAM chips... I thought about it and figured it out with them... When I got to the Ham Fest BEN HENDRICKS (the soon to be beaten HAM guy) asked me how my trip was? and smirked.... I got even with him in a *DEC* kind of way.... (but that's another message). WARNING THOUGH - SIGNIFICANT DEC HARDWARE WAS DAMAGED *BY* HIM IN THE PROCESS. He *really* should have checked the disk media before inserting.... >>I only ever got lucky once and got a girl I use to go to school with... wish >>I had a Picasso in the car that day :-( > >You can *afford* a Picasso? You must have one hell of a computer collection!!! >;-) Not quite.... but I do have an *okay* group right now, and go through MANY old minis (pre- 1972)... I don't really collect though (I am not a pack rat)... I restore systems for *deep pocket* collectors on the side (beginning to be full time) for $$$$. I only keep a few minis that I enjoy playing with... John http://www.pdp8.com/ (to see the newest acquisitions - last month to present). > >Take care, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. >

26 years, 3 months

2
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OT: patenting an old year/date concept, to make millions

by mbg＠world.std.com

>You might want to check your manuals again, Megan - for the past two >decades that I've been doing RT-11 programming, the month field in the >date word *does* run 1-12, not 0-11. (Actually, 0-11 would make >more sense since you're almost always using it as an index into a >table of month names...) Good catch... After 25 years of RT user/developer/user time, you would think I would get it right all the time... :-) That's why I write the code to do the right thing to begin with.. so I don't have to worry about it later... :-) The bottom line is that since the year can be zero, you use a field of the date word which cannot be zero in a valid date (and if you want to completely validate it, you check to see if each field is in the allowable range). The point being that the fact that 1972 was not allowed by the date command when it truly was a valid RT year is a bug, not the official 'legal' limits to years as Jerome had mentioned. >And, of course, the CSI command lines generally expect RAD50 constants >for months, not numbers, so you can generally type > ... > 004322 instead of APR ... > >Note that octal 004322 = decimal 2258. So some fixes are going >to happen in the future with date parsing if one wants to be sure not >to confuse 'APR' with the year '2258' :-). Yep, I remember noting this when I was working on my copy of RT, but it wasn't a problem within the RT epoch of 1972-2099... so... >There are some other funny things with year parsing in CSI command lines >that have been around since the mid 70's. In particular, most of the >RT-11 utilities used to (that is, prior to 5.7) take as legal years >59 through 63 decimal. Convert these to octal, and you see they >are represented as 73 through 77. This way, if you forgot the decimal >point on a CSI command line in specifying a year in the range 73-77, >the utility "fixed it up" for you with the "do what I mean" operator :-). >It's a cute trick, but it doesn't work from 1980 through 1999 because >8 and 9 aren't legal octal digits... and it wasn't reimplemented for >4 digit years in the range of 2000-2007. It's not a cute trick, it is an *ugly* hack, since it tries to account for someone's bad typing... (personal opinion) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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VAXStation 3100 problems :(

by vaxman＠uswest.net

Hi, I finally dug my VS3100 out and powered it up, and I think I have some bad parts :( On power up it says: KA42 V1.3 F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7_..6_..5...4...3_..2_..1?.. ? E 0040 0000.0005 ? B 0010 0020.0081 ? 4 00D0 0007.0213 ?? 1 00C0 0011.700E >> NOTE: I have the SCSI/ST506 board unplugged, and no mass storage installed (hence the 7_,6_,3_,2_,1? errors) Now, if i remember the VS2000 stuff correctly, ?E says the 8plane graphics is hosed... The visual symptom is the red plane (the whole plane, no text or anything) blinks on and off, and seems to scroll to the upper left. Disconnecting the red input make it go away, but no red then. Removing the 8plane board and connecting the red to the green (w/sync) input works ok. Anyone run into this before? Any suggestions for how to go about fixing it? ?B says the memory board is hosed. There are two memory boards, a DEC 4MB board (it works when plugged in alone), and a DATARAM memory board (the only numbers I see on it are: 40967 Rev F) Their website advertises a lifetime warranty, has anyone exercised it? Can anyone translate the error message into something I can use to debug the board? What do the ?4 and ?1 errors mean? (As if I didn't have enough problems) Is the VS40X (the 8 plane board) the same as the one in the VS2000? Can I plug it in to my VS2000 to test it? Or move the 4 plane from the VS2000 into the 3100? WHere can I get the carriers for disk drives? This box doesn't have any... Finally, does anyone know what the lowest version of Ultrix that will run on this box is? THanks, clint

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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Just found some PDP-4 paper tape software

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

It's called "Contest - II - 8K" 7/30/63. There are some more PDP-4 tapes I have seen (just digging them out). Anyone have any idea what this is? john

26 years, 3 months

2
1
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Fireproofing questions

by edick＠idcomm.com

The cabinet you obtained may indeed be fireproof. That means that you can safely store your irreplaceable documents, e.g. your rich uncle's will, your birth certificate, your early computer schematics and service documents, and rely on their remaining intact while the car and remainder of your garage go up in flames. However, I would not recommend it for irreplaceable media which cannot tolerate high temperature. Fireproof generally means that fire on the outside will stay on the outside, while fire on the inside will, likewise, stay on the inside. Clearly there's cause for wanting one or both in many cases. If you want safe, fireproof storage in the sense that your mag media and other thermally sensitive materials will survive, I'd recommend a welded aluminum cabinet which you bury in your back yard with access from the top, perhaps covered by a cinder paving block or even a pallet or two with a utility shed over the top. You could park your lawnmower over it with little ill effect. Even a fire in the gasoline or paint you store there won't damage the contents of the vault. Its contents should remain both cool and dry, and you can have access whenever the situation demands. It might be a good idea to store units of mag media in zip-loc freezer bags with some form of dessicant so as to avoid condensation of water which will lead to mold or mildew. Such an arrangement would be ideal for off-site secure storage of backups. The most convenient such application, using the area under a utility shed, that I've seen was a small chest freezer. So long as the opening is above the worst-case water line, a freezer or old refrigerator might work well. It's just that they tend to rust. It's very dry most of the time here in Colorado. A kitchen appliance might not work so well in Florida or elsewhere where the water table is shallow and the mineral content of the water is high. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)is1.wfi-inc.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 6:24 PM Subject: Fireproofing questions >Hi all, > >I just scored a 6-foot metal, 2-door cabinet that is marked as fireproof. >I'd like to think it'd be a great place to store classic media, but it's >not entirely heat-proof. To test it, I placed a hot clothes iron on the >outer wall and measured the temperature/rate of climb on the inner wall, >as well as the ambient temperature inside the cabinet. It was enough that, >even with a comparatively small heat source (well, to a garage fire, >anyway), anything within a few inches of the inner wall would have most >definitely been damaged, and possibly items close to the center after a >half-hour of exposure to the heat source. > >My question is this: is there something anyone could recommend that would >make a good lining for the inner walls of the cabinet to insulate it from >heat? Something that doesn't take up too much room (would kind of defeat >the purpose of having a cabinet to store things in) and would protect the >interior contents in case of a small fire. I don't think there's anything >between the inner and outer walls besides air, though I'm not certain. >Perhaps I could squirt some of that expanding foam in there or something? > >Cheers, > >Aaron > >

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 15, 0:52, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Basically Samba is Windows networking for non-Windows machines. At work, > it's how the NT boxes access the data which for obvious reasons is kept on > a real OS. Their are versions for most UNIX varients, the Amiga, OpenVMS, > and others. Since it's basically a Windows thing, and I don't have to deal > with it at work, I don't claim to know anything about it. I can do a basic > Samba install and with a lot of cursing get a Win95/98/NT box to connect to > it. > > If you want useful info on it, I'd recommend http://www.samba.org because > I'm sure the info I just gave is both useless and questionable :^) Oh, I think (since I have to look after Samba stuff under similar circumstances) it's quite accurate. You just have to remember that the cursing is, apparently, mandatory. > BTW, I've found the real trick of working with Samba (on the Admin side) is > remembering where the &)# @*^% smb.conf file on a particular machine is! That too :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Dont want to start a flame war here but

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, back about 25 years ago or so, when I was into robotics and things like that, a colleague was telling his wife that "once we get the skin absorbtiveness squared away so we don't end up with lipstick on our drawers, we're going to phase you biological units out completely . . ." Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Dont want to start a flame war here but >> >> > One more thing . . . about those wives . . . I've done >> > pretty well without 'em and prefer it that way, having >> > tried it both ways. >> > >> > The old computer hardware's cheaper, easier to live >> > with, and more forgiving. >> >> Yes, but not as much fun in bed. (Sorry, couldn't resist) > >Well, each to his own, I suppose :-) > >-tony (who has some very odd hardware in his bedroom)

26 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

OT: patenting an old year/date concept, to make millions

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Jerome Fine replies: >In addition, some of the code in RT-11 in the monitor and elsewhere >rejects a date value with a year value of zero - meaning that 1972 is >considered invalid by that code. This was fixed in RT-11 5.7, it now consistently handles 1972 through 2099, inclusive. >the DATE/TIME hardware clock on the third party board. Any idea >how the 11/93 does the 1999 transition with the now Y2K compliant >firmware update? Look in the NL.MAC source code - the SETUP.SAV window range was chosen identically: .sbttl . Convert clock date to RT-11 format. ; Convert the BCD date read from the clock to the standard RT-11 format: ; ; RT-11 extended date word (RT-11 V5.5ff) ; ; 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 | 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 ; +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ ; |yr xtn | month | day | year-1972 | ; +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ ; 2 bits 4 bits 5 bits 5 bits ; ; ; To support the year extension, clock years of 72..99 can be considered to ; be in the 1900s (since the RT-11 base year of 1972) and years of 00..71 can ; be considered to be in the 2000s. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by edick＠idcomm.com

SAMBA is that NETBEUI-compatible protocol used by Windows for Workgroups, isn't it? I've heard a lot of mention of it but no details except that its DOS client is HUGE by comparison with the already large but purportedly MUCH smaller NOVELL IPX+NETX. (about 96K). I'm interested in this because I use a set of DOS engineering tools, since they suit me better and work faster than the Windows version, and are less buggy. I'd LOVE to use DOS 6.2x as opposed to Windows since it tolerates my video drivers. I would have to load the same DOS driver/shell under WIN9x in DOS mode, so the same restrictions apply. Yes, multiple versions of what should be the same driver set is what I remember about the ethernet hookups with various versions of DEC hardware. We didn't get around to the MAC's for a while because nobody believed we could make that work. Finally one guy threw up his hands and hooked it up with hardware he carried in from home. That made for some red faces among the senior types! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 9:59 PM Subject: Re: Effective Speed of 10BaseT >>Perhaps you could reduce the number of protocols a bit. It doesn't always >>make a lot of difference, but you never know . . . > >I wish! Let's see, if I want the Mac to talk to VMS I've got to use >AppleTalk, since DAVE (basically Samba for the Mac) and the Samba version >of VMS don't mix. If I want to talk to RSX-11M I've got to use DECnet. >Samba for Windows, since that's cheaper than getting NFS for Windows (why >pay for something I wouldn't really use). Then most systems talk TCP/IP. > >In an ideal world every system would be running TCP/IP and using NFS to >access remote disks, but it's not an ideal world. Good luck finding NFS at >any price for the Mac (don't think you can get it for the Amiga anymore >either), and I've spent the entire evening trying to get the VMS box in >quesiton serving up NFS. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 3 months

4
4
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Need a RS232 interface transputer tram

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Hi, I need a RS232 transputer tram for a project I am planning on doing. I really dont want to access the PCs serial port due to speed considerations, etc. So does anyone have such a beast for sale?? I dont know what inmos part number it is, but transtech had one called TTM21 and Sundance had one called STM220. Thanks Ram

26 years, 3 months

7
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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by bill＠chipware.com

> One more thing . . . about those wives . . . I've done > pretty well without 'em and prefer it that way, having > tried it both ways. > > The old computer hardware's cheaper, easier to live > with, and more forgiving. Yes, but not as much fun in bed. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

26 years, 3 months

2
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Samba

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's what I was led to believe also, but it's not true. Even though the ODI driver set is quite a bit bigger than the earlier IPX.com, for every card I've tried out, my threshhold is the required transient area (useable low memory) under DOS 3.22 or 6.22, with all my SCSI drivers, etc, (I can leave out the CDROM stuff) loaded, so I can still use my DOS-based OrCAD for schematic capture, digital simulation, and PCB routing. The PCB router is the crux, since it won't do everything if there's not 600+ KB of available low memory. Not even all the ODI drivers will leave enough space for that. A few of the cards I use will do it though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pechter <pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 3:38 PM Subject: Samba >> >SAMBA is that NETBEUI-compatible protocol used by Windows for Workgroups, >> >isn't it? I've heard a lot of mention of it but no details except that its >> >DOS client is HUGE by comparison with the already large but purportedly MUCH >> >smaller NOVELL IPX+NETX. (about 96K). >> >Actually, the dos client works with the MS Dos and Windows IP stacks >and it's netbios over TCP/IP. It's the IP stack that's the real issue. >IPX and NETX are real small. Try loading LSL, IPXODI, and the VLMs and >it is more like the microsoft stuff in size 8-(. > >> >> BTW, I've found the real trick of working with Samba (on the Admin side) is >> remembering where the &)# @*^% smb.conf file on a particular machine is! >> >> Zane > >Ain't it the truth... Redid the servers this weekend with 2.6 of Samba. >Now I've got to try to do the domain thing and login scripts for it. > >Bill > >--- > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, > The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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New Finds

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com <Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 10:10 AM Subject: Re: New Finds >>> 12. IBM PS/2 model 70 portable (joke) seems to be a 386 with 12 meg HD. >>> Pretty heavy for a portable and only runs with a cord plugged into the wall. >> >> ah yes, the P70. gas plasma display so that's why it can only run on ac >> power. make sure your floppy drive works, there was an ECA about that. they >> seem to sell pretty good around this area, although i have spotted one in a >> computer junk store for $35, i'm holding off for cheaper. When it was new, it >> sold for over $7k. > >$7k? Ouch!! > >I passed one up a couple of weeks ago. Seller was asking 95 pounds, was >prepared to sell for 80, but no less - she claimed the Windows 95 installation >on the hard drive was worth that. I told her just what I would do if I got a >machine with Windows 95 on it... (hint: it involves a disk partitioning tool and >a Linux distribution kit) > >Philip. > > Are you sure this was a P70 (which usually shipped with 386s) and not a P75 (which usually shipped with 486 or better processors)? I tried a Win '95 installation on my 4MB RAM/120 MB HD/386 P70, and from "power on" to "ready to use" took over two minutes. Trying to open any windows or run any applications caused a frenzy of drive activity (reading and writing to the swapfile, I suspect). I can't imagine anyone actually using a P70 running Win '95. Running Windows 3.11 though, they were decent portables for their time - nice crisp display, good keyboard. Very capable "get some work done in your hotel room" computers. I know several people who have added MCA SCSI cards to the internal expansion slot, and use their P70s as portable SCSI device testers. Cheers, Mark.

26 years, 3 months

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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by edick＠idcomm.com

This is actually quite realistic! I was once given an IBM690 with tons of equipment associated with it, the most interesting feature of which was that in addition to doing a little computing on compilers of the generation on which I did my first work, it would keep my horses (since the barn was the place where I had the 3-phase power) nice and warm all winter. More recently I had an opportunity to snag a complete 9370 setup with nearly a TB of (IPI ... yechhh!) disk farm. I would have preferred they blow it along with the rest of the building, though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Innfogra(a)aol.com <Innfogra(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 2:46 PM Subject: Re: Dont want to start a flame war here but >In a message dated 11/15/99 1:16:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, >rmeenaks(a)olf.com writes: > >> And what >> pratical use does it serve running it at home anyway??? > >They make great heaters. I won't turn on the house heat till late December. > >Paxton >Portland, Oregon

26 years, 3 months

1
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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by edick＠idcomm.com

One more thing . . . about those wives . . . I've done pretty well without 'em and prefer it that way, having tried it both ways. The old computer hardware's cheaper, easier to live with, and more forgiving. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ram Meenakshisundaram <rmeenaks(a)olf.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 2:18 PM Subject: Dont want to start a flame war here but Hi, Just curious. What motivates someone to collect old minis and mainframes??? I can see it being nice to look at for a while, but something as big as a mini is very cumbersome to have around the house (let alone an apartment). And what pratical use does it serve running it at home anyway??? I see a lot of posts about collectors having paper tapes, reels, card readers, etc, but how often does one really use it or even turn it on. I would imagine that it probably sets idle for about 95-99% of the time and most people would turn on a PC instead. I have a SUN IPX and a PC. I rarely turn the SUN on, but I keep it around to do some practical UNIX programming on a real UNIX box instead of linux, freebsd, etc. As I said, I dont want to start a flame war or anything, just curious thats all...... Ram PS: If I started to collect stuff like that, my wife will throw me out of the house. She already complains about my transputer equipment... -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks(a)olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/

26 years, 3 months

1
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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/15/99 1:16:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, rmeenaks(a)olf.com writes: > And what > pratical use does it serve running it at home anyway??? They make great heaters. I won't turn on the house heat till late December. Paxton Portland, Oregon

26 years, 3 months

1
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Dont want to start a flame war here but

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've often wondered about this myself. The answer lies in the word "collect" which implies, in this case, INTENTIONAL accumulation of what most folks would consider junk, in order to play with it, fiddle with it, admire it, fantasize about how things might have been if you'd had one back when they were of some value, etc. I don't do any of those things. I am just an accumulator, and once in a while, I even pass up a system, wholly functional just because I don't want equipment from that manufacturer. IBM and DEC are two such, and the latter, at least, is really popular among collectors. Both have in common that they maximized the terabucks per femptoflop, continuing to use old costly technology where newer cheaper technology would have been better. Hindsight's always 20/20, they say, but I think it differs from one person to the next. Looking back, most collectors are glad the systems they collect were. As for me, I'm just glad they're gone. Of course, I do have my niche . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ram Meenakshisundaram <rmeenaks(a)olf.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 2:18 PM Subject: Dont want to start a flame war here but Hi, Just curious. What motivates someone to collect old minis and mainframes??? I can see it being nice to look at for a while, but something as big as a mini is very cumbersome to have around the house (let alone an apartment). And what pratical use does it serve running it at home anyway??? I see a lot of posts about collectors having paper tapes, reels, card readers, etc, but how often does one really use it or even turn it on. I would imagine that it probably sets idle for about 95-99% of the time and most people would turn on a PC instead. I have a SUN IPX and a PC. I rarely turn the SUN on, but I keep it around to do some practical UNIX programming on a real UNIX box instead of linux, freebsd, etc. As I said, I dont want to start a flame war or anything, just curious thats all...... Ram PS: If I started to collect stuff like that, my wife will throw me out of the house. She already complains about my transputer equipment... -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks(a)olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/

26 years, 3 months

1
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PDP-15 is running... but has 8 lives left!

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

I thought cats only had 9 lives.... When I picked up this mini I was told it ran on 220 volts.. It has 3 twist in 220Volt plugs on it.... Well, I was just about to hook it up to 220 when I thought *maybe* I should double check the PSU jumpers. Well,,, contrary to what everyone thought.... the thing was configured for 110 Volts... 1 PDP saved! I wired it all up (I have NEVER used an 18 bit mini)... applied power and no lights... (one little breaker was on off.. talk about scarey and I was smelling around for smoke). I flipped the breaker and..... one happy PDP-15 Selected "MO", read some core, wrote some back... then went for the ultimate test....... Grabbed a paper tape (MAINDEC) hit STOP,RESET,READIN... the paper tape read in, and talk about "blinky lights" (I think I'll just wheel this mini to my living room window and run a looping test tape every day til XMAS).... The MAINDEC program ran.. The PDP-15 was Plug and Play. [no fun..not even a bad chip/solder contact to find :-( ] I don't know how to load FOCAL or even if it can be run from paper tape (stand alone). I do have a drum memory unit and mag tape but don't want to hook them up as I barely know how to operate what I have right now... (Took 20 minutes to go through some manuals to tell me how to load in the MAINDEC...). This is one weird mini. I have "Disk Monitor" and pile of other software, FOCAL, BASIC, FORTRAN, 8-TRAN, MACRO, etc... I don't know how to load any of these and there are just too many manuals to go through right now. If anyone here knows: A) Can FOCAL be run stand alone on the PDP-15.. if so how? and how do I load it? B) What atre these "Paper Tape System" tapes for? I have a teletype hooked up to it so I am hoping someone here can save me a lot of reading.... john

26 years, 3 months

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Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, all the things which make the DECnet stuff painfully burdensome in a simple environment like mine, turn around, I'm told, and make a more complex and larger environment work better. Perhaps your system will benefit from the presence of multiple protocols and layers. It doesn't look, from your description, like a single segment. However, for my purposes, it's a single segment if, without any intervening layers (other than the physical ones) all stations can directly "see" one another, particularly, of course, the collisions. Generally, people split up segments when the collision overhead gets too large. It's hard to make that show up with half a dozen stations. If you do as I did, by dumping vast quantities of highly dense data all at once, you'll see the overhead rise. When I got my 100 MHz stuff I was told by the tech support guy at Netgear, an avid LINUX user, that I'd be best reducing the number of protocols supported on my setup, so I deleted all references to Microsoft's NETBEUI. I'm not sure it made things better or faster, but it hasn't hurt anything. My setup is based on a NETWARE server, though, so I can't punt IPX/SPX and the Windows boxes like to talk TCP/IP. Since I'm using that for WAN-ing, I might as well make that the default. Now, if I could just find a TCP/IP driver set for DOS that's not bigger than the NOVELL stuff . . . Perhaps you could reduce the number of protocols a bit. It doesn't always make a lot of difference, but you never know . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 6:17 PM Subject: Re: Effective Speed of 10BaseT >>there were no ack's and no error management of any kind over the LAN. IIRC, >>Appletalk sends occasional traffic over an otherwise idle LAN. I don't know >>whether it does this when there really is traffic. > >Yes, Appletalk does send a little over the network even when nothing is >going on, but not as bad as DECnet. Since I've got AppleTalk, DECnet, >Samba, and TCP/IP all running on the same network I've probably got a >pretty noisy. > >Hmmm, just ran a 'tcpdump' and it looks like I'm taking a hit on the >network just by having a couple Appletalk shares mounted from the VMS box, >about 56-bytes minimum every couple seconds. > >>The numbers you quote seem a mite low, but not embarassingly so. You are >>configured as a single segment, are you not? > >Not sure how you mean a single segment, there are two hub's attached to the >switch, as well as computers, plus I've got a 10Base2 converter and >localtalk converter (for the HP 5MP Laserjet) plugged into it. > >Guess I'll have to turn on FTP on the DEC3000, and see what kind of speeds >I get that way. Besides I want to get FTP and NFS turned on anyway. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 3 months

4
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Customs Tricks (was: Re: Whoohoo! Fortune Telling...

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> I stepped outside and everything but the steering wheel & seat were removed > from my truck... including the contents of the glove compartment & other > places of "personal" storage. > > [[Editor's note - I'm not just picking on Canadian Customs - Years ago > (when I was an infant, so that's ~30 years ago) my parents were coming back > into the US when US customs stopped them, tore the car apart *including the > seats*. When they were all done, they said "You can go. You have 15 minutes > to be out of the building." *thankfully* my dad is one hell of a mechanic > and had a full toolset with him and could reinstall the seats in a few > minutes - despite the fact the tools were spread in a 10 foot radius around > the car. No joke.]] > > Customs can be your friend, or they can be the most sadistic bastards > you've ever known. Be nice to them even if they're assholes - or you'll > regret it if you do any border crossing at all. I've never had it that bad. The worst time for me was at Strasbourg, crossing >from Germany to France (whatever happened to European free trade?) in 1995. Bored customs officer + loaded estate car (station wagon) with GB plates = obvious result. They didn't take the computer junk out of the car but insisted on going through all my suitcases and asking silly questions - I speak very little French or German and they spoke even less English, so how they expected to understand my replies I am not sure. Example of silly question: they find a (German) hymn book (FWIW I also collect hymn books) and ask if I am a priest, and try to persuade me to sing something >from it. I eventually got away when they asked me if I was a spy, and I said yes... >>I only ever got lucky once and got a girl I use to go to school with... wish >>I had a Picasso in the car that day :-( > > You can *afford* a Picasso? You must have one hell of a computer collection!!! > ;-) No, he imports them for rich clients who pay virtually no commission. If he had had one when he met his friend he could have pocketed the import duty and made a profit for once ... ;-) Philip. This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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New Finds

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> 12. IBM PS/2 model 70 portable (joke) seems to be a 386 with 12 meg HD. >> Pretty heavy for a portable and only runs with a cord plugged into the wall. > > ah yes, the P70. gas plasma display so that's why it can only run on ac > power. make sure your floppy drive works, there was an ECA about that. they > seem to sell pretty good around this area, although i have spotted one in a > computer junk store for $35, i'm holding off for cheaper. When it was new, it > sold for over $7k. $7k? Ouch!! I passed one up a couple of weeks ago. Seller was asking 95 pounds, was prepared to sell for 80, but no less - she claimed the Windows 95 installation on the hard drive was worth that. I told her just what I would do if I got a machine with Windows 95 on it... (hint: it involves a disk partitioning tool and a Linux distribution kit) Philip. This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474

26 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

HP 7550 plotter

by truthanl＠oclc.org

-----Original Message----- From: John Honniball [mailto:John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 10:38 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: HP 7550 plotter You wrote:...My favourite feature of the HP 7550: little "gravity-operated" lids over the three interface connectors, to keep the dust out. My favorite feature is writing speed. We have one hooked to a network analyser, ploting color traces of cell tower antenna impedances. Although the 7550 is not easilly portable, niether is the Network Analyser. But you have many colors to discern different antennae feedlines and the completed plots expedite proof of performance reports. Storing traces to diskette might be an option, but it's still slower printing to color inkjet back at the office. You can also more quickly mark up the plots to keep them straight, rather than having to give each file a descriptive filename on diskette. Larry Truthan > *********************************************************************** > * John Ott * Email: jott(a)saturn.ee.nd.edu * > * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * > * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * > * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * > * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * > *********************************************************************** -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England

26 years, 3 months

1
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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Kevin Schoedel <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net> wrote: > >Those numbers are on a par with old MVIIs with DEQNAs and MV2000s (ca1988). > > Hey! What's wrong with DEQNAs and MV2000s? One problem I know about is that they can't handle as much network saturation as other equipment of the same vintage. At OSU, c. mid-1980s, a friend of mine calculated the minimum back-to-back packet time that their Pyramids could fling packets onto the network at. The idea was to raise network throughput by reducing inter-packet time since most of the traffic was NFS and telnet, not heavy, sustained, long packet traffic, IIRC. When the modifictations to the Pyramid's network driver were implemented, the lone MicroVAX-II crashed. The DEC interface apparently could handle passing a packet to the bus while receiving a new packet from the wire, but when the next packet was coming in and the first packet wasn't fully off the card, the DEQNA raised some sort of error which caused a kernel panic. In other words, there was only room on the card for one unprocessed packet, not two. The real problem was that when that extra packet came along, the DEQNA should have ignored it, forcing a later retry, not lock up the Qbus. Software wouldn't have fixed this problem. I do not know why DEC obsoleted the DEQNA in favor of the DELQA. All I have is a DEQNA myself and it's so new (to me), I haven't even plugged it in. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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Junk report

by John.Honniball＠uwe.ac.uk

Just had a delivery of more prime quality junk! I have an HP 7550 pen plotter, complete with HP-GL manual and quick reference. No operator's manual as yet. This thing is huge, with a 68000 CPU, and takes A3 paper manually fed as well as auto-feeding A4. However, here's the question: How do I get the plotter to open the paper drawer? Is it a front-panel operation, or do I just pull? I've pulled quite hard, so maybe it's just stuck :-( Oh, and I also got a 4-track Philips tape deck, wherein the belts have not just stretched, but liquified -- yuck! -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England

26 years, 3 months

3
3
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Corroding Core memory

by Henk.J.Stegeman＠is.shell.com

Hi, Has anyone ever experienenced corroding core memories ? I have some core memories stored in my garage which is relatively dry, but I don't like the risk that they get corroded. Any views or contributions are welcome. Thanks Regards, Henk Stegeman, IBM System/3 owner.

26 years, 3 months

1
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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by ndiablo＠diablonet.net

Actually, I was wondering something similar myself :) I've got two old VAXstation 2000's that i've been trying to netboot and neither one of them are cooperating much.. They've both got lance boards that check out alright with the ROM diags ("t 0"), link up fine (link light on transciever and hub on), but when I try and netboot NetBSD on them, I get strange %VMB-F-ERR type messages and it bombs out... I tried pulling the box apart for inspection; the board looks like its OK.. I found a jumper on the lance board and tried moving it to the other position, but it didnt do anything toward resolving the problem. I get the same error with two different VAXstation 2000 systems, both with lance boards that check out OK in ROM diags.. Is there something I should know about configuring these little buggers or have both the boards died in some strange way? I'd appreciate any pointers anybody could give me on them! Thanks, -Sean Caron (root(a)diablonet.net)

26 years, 3 months

3
2
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OT: patenting an old year/date concept, to make millions

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I suspect that the check should actually be made for the day field of >the date word being zero as being invalid... the year can be 00, the >month can be, too, but the day field should always be non-zero for >a valid date. (though I've always had a problem with why the months >field was 0-11 instead of 1-12 when the day field was 1-31). You might want to check your manuals again, Megan - for the past two decades that I've been doing RT-11 programming, the month field in the date word *does* run 1-12, not 0-11. (Actually, 0-11 would make more sense since you're almost always using it as an index into a table of month names...) And, of course, the CSI command lines generally expect RAD50 constants for months, not numbers, so you can generally type 037266 instead of JAN 023112 instead of FEB 050572 instead of MAR 004322 instead of APR 050601 instead of MAY 040726 instead of JUN 040724 instead of JUL 004617 instead of AUG 073630 instead of SEP 057114 instead of OCT 054756 instead of NOV 014713 instead of DEC Note that octal 004322 = decimal 2258. So some fixes are going to happen in the future with date parsing if one wants to be sure not to confuse 'APR' with the year '2258' :-). There are some other funny things with year parsing in CSI command lines that have been around since the mid 70's. In particular, most of the RT-11 utilities used to (that is, prior to 5.7) take as legal years 59 through 63 decimal. Convert these to octal, and you see they are represented as 73 through 77. This way, if you forgot the decimal point on a CSI command line in specifying a year in the range 73-77, the utility "fixed it up" for you with the "do what I mean" operator :-). It's a cute trick, but it doesn't work from 1980 through 1999 because 8 and 9 aren't legal octal digits... and it wasn't reimplemented for 4 digit years in the range of 2000-2007. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 3 months

1
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OT: patenting an old year/date concept, to make millions

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> >In addition, some of the code in RT-11 in the monitor and elsewhere >> >rejects a date value with a year value of zero - meaning that 1972 is >> >considered invalid by that code. >> This was fixed in RT-11 5.7, it now consistently handles 1972 through >> 2099, inclusive. >I am confused here just a little bit. And I am not taking exception to >what was done in V5.7 - in fact, I believe that the decisions which were >made were correct. However, if "this was fixed in RT-11 V5.7" is >what I think the word "fixed" means, then not allowing the command: >"DATE 01-Jan-72" >in all versions of RT-11 which did allow the command "DATE 01-Jan-73" >means that these previous versions had a "bug". If a "bug" is the correct >interpretation for not allowing a year of 1972, I wonder why the developers >of RT-11 never corrected that aspect in all the years of RT-11 development? It wasn't a very serious bug, unless you had files with datestamps >from 1972 on them. In my experience, you're only likely to see pre-1974 datestamps in RT-11 if the files were imported from, say, an old DOS-11 tape. >> >the DATE/TIME hardware clock on the third party board. Any idea >> >how the 11/93 does the 1999 transition with the now Y2K compliant >> >firmware update? >> Look in the NL.MAC source code - the SETUP.SAV window range was >> chosen identically: >I stated my question incorrectly. I know how the DATE value is divided >in the different 4 fields. What I was specifically wondering about was how >DATE/TIME values in the 11/93 were handled before the firmware on the >11/93 was made Y2K compliant as what happens now - if indeed anything >is different? I have seen references to the upgrade needed by the 11/93 >firmware to make it Y2K compliant. What I am curious about is how the >Y2K compliant firmware for the 11/93 handles the year and if that was >any different before the 11/93 firmware was made Y2K compliant. Technically, the "11/93 TOY clock firmware fix" wasn't to fix a Y2K problem, it was there to fix a Y2000.164 problem. The actual problem occured after 29-Feb-2000, which the TOY clock firmware regarded (at boot time) as an illegal date and it set the TOY clock back to the factory default date (1-Jan-1980, if I'm not mistaken.) This was more of a boneheaded "2000 is not a leap year" mistake than anything else. Most (all?) other PDP-11 TOY clock modules don't attempt to do anything particularly "smart" (here, simple is good, because the "smart" code may do something "stupid" someday) with the date. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 3 months

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Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by edick＠idcomm.com

IIRC, it was the TCP/IP that didn't work well in the presence of DEC hardware back then. If we put a bridge between the DEC stuff and the SUN/APOLLO/HP... it seemed to work OK. There wasn't any NETWARE stuff there either, since that was still early in NOVELL's lifespan. I use it here because it lets me view the server as another drive or two and because I can't find a smaller shell/driver set for DOS. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 9:24 PM Subject: Re: Effective Speed of 10BaseT ><Not just humor, Allison. Substantial accomodation for DEC network hardwar ><had to be made back then ('86..'87) because DEC had features which would ><foul other hardware up if accomodation wasn't made. In order to keep from > >Sounds like the features were those needed to do WAN and you wanted >something lighter. Generally at that time I was viewing most LANs as >broken or nearly so. The only protocals I remember that worked were >DECnet, TCP/IP and BANYAN vines for routable and Netware for local >PC stuff. > ><bringing down the LAN, all software/configuration changes had to be made i ><advance of connecting the first DEC hardware. It didn't always bring down ><the LAN, but if that was your only worry, it certainly would. > >my experience was non DEC hardware didn't work or was questionable. Though >the common Qbus NI (DEQNA) was known to be a poor performer in more ways >than one. Side effect of an old design even by late '87 standards. > >Allison >

26 years, 3 months

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A new arrival...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Greetings all; A new arrival joined us tonight, but it looks like he is suffering from a very rough life. A HERO-1, who was fished out of the dumpster (EEK!) a couple of years ago, and rattled around someone's desk ever since as a curiosity. Fortunately, I have a friend who was able to rescue him from this rather unpleasant fate. At first glance, he is in rather sad shape. One of the metal side panels and both of the plastic panels are missing, there are some cracks in the head plastics, the blue foam bar for the sonars is gone, a couple of keycaps from his keypad are missing, and the arm plastics are badly damaged. Mechanically though he seems fairly complete. Some bent metal here and there but nothing too serious, and the wrist is going to need some help. Batterys are completely shot, no charger or teaching pendant, tho I have all that with my other HERO-1. And besides, I've been looking for an excuse to build a 'control console' for Science Fair demos. (big buttons and icons) Electronics look to be in fair condition, I've noted a couple of (common) ICs are missing, and in my first quick look I noted a small junction board mounted on the bottom plate just inside of the back door marked 'Interface board' that puzzled me... Until I pulled the head plastic and found that what I had first thought to be a 'bike flag' (really, a red triangular flag that says "HERO" on a stiff wire), was actually the antenna for the RF remote receiver unit! No apparent options other than the arm (and speech board). Have not checked ROM versions yet... He will need a thorough check out before I consider powering him up. But... all in all, I think he might even make it back to life in time for our next scheduled Science Fair appearance in February. (one can always hope) ...And then there were three! Mayhaps he will join us at VCF IV. B^} -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

26 years, 3 months

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OT: patenting an old year/date concept, to make millions

by mbg＠world.std.com

Tim Shoppa Replies: >Jerome Fine replies: >>In addition, some of the code in RT-11 in the monitor and elsewhere >>rejects a date value with a year value of zero - meaning that 1972 is >>considered invalid by that code. > >This was fixed in RT-11 5.7, it now consistently handles 1972 through >2099, inclusive. Thank you... I was about to respond to Jerome that if it did do that (and I didn't know it did), I would have considered that to be a bug which would require fixing, not programming around... I suspect that the check should actually be made for the day field of the date word being zero as being invalid... the year can be 00, the month can be, too, but the day field should always be non-zero for a valid date. (though I've always had a problem with why the months field was 0-11 instead of 1-12 when the day field was 1-31). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 3 months

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Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Not just humor, Allison. Substantial accomodation for DEC network hardwar <had to be made back then ('86..'87) because DEC had features which would <foul other hardware up if accomodation wasn't made. In order to keep from Sounds like the features were those needed to do WAN and you wanted something lighter. Generally at that time I was viewing most LANs as broken or nearly so. The only protocals I remember that worked were DECnet, TCP/IP and BANYAN vines for routable and Netware for local PC stuff. <bringing down the LAN, all software/configuration changes had to be made i <advance of connecting the first DEC hardware. It didn't always bring down <the LAN, but if that was your only worry, it certainly would. my experience was non DEC hardware didn't work or was questionable. Though the common Qbus NI (DEQNA) was known to be a poor performer in more ways than one. Side effect of an old design even by late '87 standards. Allison

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Hey! What's wrong with DEQNAs and MV2000s? Actually nothing. I run a bunch of both. They are 1988 technology and expectations should be accordingly. <A serious question, actually: What *is* wrong with MV2000s? I have a few <-- not currently in use, but intended for a play-with-VMS-cluster after I <move -- and one of them constantly gets ethernet errors. On the machines <that work, the lance chip is moved up onto a little daughtercard with a <few other components; on the one that doesn't, it's directly in its <socket. (Sorry about the lack of detail -- the machines are in storage -- <but anyone who knows about this presumably doesn't need my description.) Don't know, though I've never seen one without the lance board. Maybe someone was trying to make a system with the wrong parts. Allison

26 years, 3 months

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Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by edick＠idcomm.com

Not just humor, Allison. Substantial accomodation for DEC network hardware had to be made back then ('86..'87) because DEC had features which would foul other hardware up if accomodation wasn't made. In order to keep from bringing down the LAN, all software/configuration changes had to be made in advance of connecting the first DEC hardware. It didn't always bring down the LAN, but if that was your only worry, it certainly would. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Effective Speed of 10BaseT ><Part of my team at the lab where I worked at the rocket ranch was once ><tasked to quantify this and the first question you must ask is "Is there an ><DEC hardware in the building, connected or otherwise?" What was determine > >This is humor, right? > >Allison > >

26 years, 3 months

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New items added to classic computer sale

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

Items Added on 11/14/99: #40) IBM PS/2 Model 30 - no hard drive or floppy drive #42) Compaq SLT-286 Laptop Docking Station #43) Original Radio Shack Color Computer - worked when last used.. Includes 5 1/4" floppy drive and some program carts. Some hand wear on paint below keyboard. #44) Frank Hogg Labs - Radio Shack Color Computer Cartridge Port Expander (prototype?) #45) IBM PC Junior - unknown condition #46) IBM PC Junior - unknown condition #47) Apple Macintosh Model M0001, Serial # F4110WXM0001 - unknown condition; plastic shell is cracked. Includes keyboard. #48) Apple Macintosh 512K - Model M0001W512K Serial # F439338M0001W - worked when last used. Includes keyboard & mouse. #49) Apple Macintosh external high-density 3 1/2" floppy drive #50) North Star Horizon S-100 computer. Clean; missing a bit of wood veneer on left front of cover. Unknown condition - I have never plugged it in. Will add pictures as time allows. http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer-sale.htm -Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.

26 years, 3 months

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KK8E, KK8A and front panel questions

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

So I've got this PDP-8/e OMNIBUS box, a pile of cards and want to see what's working. Here's my parts list: 2 x KK8A CPU cards 1 x KK8E board set 1 x MS8-C Hex MOS memory card 2 x KM8 "option 2" cards 2 x DKC8AA "option 1" cards 1 x PDP-8/e OMNIBUS box w/front panel When I load the KK8E into the box, I can set addresses, examine data in the MS8, toggle in small programs (NOP, NOP, JMP 0) that appear to work. One odd thing - when I load an address then deposit data, if I'm reading this thing correctly, it seems that the data is going one location higher in memory than I think I'm at. I'm not certain if this is operator error or something wrong with a card. When I load a KK8A board into the box instead of the KK8E, it runs blank memory OK, but when I attempt to set the load address, pressing the key increments the MA register from what ever it is. I can single step, but not easily set or inspect memory if I can't reset the address. Now the questions: I know you can stick a KK8E in a hex ONMIBUS box (-8/a-620, etc.). What happens if you try to put hex cards in a quad box? (I have the PSU set off to the side for clearance, in case anyone is wondering how I did it.) Does the hex MOS memory _need_ to be in a hex slot to have power/grounds/term on the fifth slot? Is the front panel from a PDP-8/e *compatible* with the KK8A? I do not own a programmer's panel for the DKC8AA, nor do I currently have a hex chassis where the cards are, limiting my options. Eventually, I can get a hex box and all these cards together, but for now I'm trying to work with what I've got. One last side question: has anyone ever used the parallel port on the DKC8-AA? Drivers aside, it seems like you could do quite a lot with it. The handbook suggests that it's possible to use it to run a LA-180, but with the data inverted and with different IOTs. Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Unfortuantly the only options for a Mac these days are Appletalk or Samba, <NFS doesn't seem to be available. I could FTP files, but that's more of a <pain that long Xfer times. There is no IP? The DEC appletalk stack works but it's an additional load, not fast and doesn't route (ATK encapsulated does route). <In this case the only traffic on the network was between the Mac and the <VMS box. Which is why I was so surprised that the performance was _that_ <bad. If I'd have had a bunch of other systems on the network talking at <that time I'd have not been suprised, but the only other system up was my <firewall. the firewall may be interacting. Those numbers are on a par with old MVIIs with DEQNAs and MV2000s (ca1988). Allison

26 years, 3 months

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Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Part of my team at the lab where I worked at the rocket ranch was once <tasked to quantify this and the first question you must ask is "Is there an <DEC hardware in the building, connected or otherwise?" What was determine This is humor, right? Allison

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I just tried FTPing a 20MB file to the VMS box from the Mac. I got 615KB/sec, which works out to about 36.9MB/minute. So, I think it's safe to say that both AppleTalk and Samba performance under VMS suck! Though I guess I should look into if any tuning of AppleTalk performance is possible since it's not dependant on TCP/IP. Glad the FTP performance is that good since I'm wanting to back data files on the Mac up to the VMS box via Retrospect which allows backup via FTP. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 3 months

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Now a UDA50 question...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I need to know what the LEDs on the UDA50 boards mean. There's 4 on each board, and they should strobe, and mine don't. Anyone got a manual? -------

26 years, 3 months

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Applesoft BASIC question

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

Anyone know if Comments in my program will slow it down? (Anybody want yet another startrek game?) ron

26 years, 3 months

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Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by edick＠idcomm.com

Part of my team at the lab where I worked at the rocket ranch was once tasked to quantify this and the first question you must ask is "Is there any DEC hardware in the building, connected or otherwise?" What was determined was that with DEC hardware present, even if not connected, not uncrated, not powered on, it would impact network performance. The interest I had was in that I was routing PCM voice comm's over the same net, and was critically interested in how network loading would effect my throughput, hence, voice quality due to effective packet losses thanks to delays. In the presence of DEC equipment, the upper limit was 33 Kbytes per sec with a 10% net load, i.e. 10% of the available bandwidth is transferred as actual raw data packets. Raw data is data which is both input and output data, i.e. without any additional routing or transfer-associated header, trailer, ecc, etc. Making the DEC equipment happy apparently took more overhead than a PC-only network, since that managed to transfer considerably more, close to 30 MB/min with large packets and considerably less with smaller packets. Apparently, knowing that DEC protocols had to be dealt with caused a sharp increase in overhead. The number of stations attempting to transmit have a large influence on sustainable traffic load and the associated acknowledgment traffic can be substantial, though it doesn't contribute much to (net) throughput. With five stations on my in-house LAN, all inactive other than the server and the station to which the tape is attached during a backup on 10BaseT I can happily feed an admittedly slow Exabyte 8200 which has a maximum transfer bandwidth of 13.038 MB/min. Under 100 Base TX, it happily feeds an Exabyte 8505 which seems to max out at just over 30 MB/min, with no apparent effect on the rest of the traffic, i.e it does that even if I'm running two backups at the same time. That same tape drive takes much longer than the 8200 on the 10BT because it is always working underflows, which means it has to back up and retry the write once it has streamed past the end of its data. My 8500 drives, capable of between 20 and 22 MB/min, fare about as well as the 8500 on the 10BT, and are unaffected by the 100BTx. Hence, a really small 10 BT seems to be able to handle between 10 and 20 MB/min with no other traffic. If packets are small, especially with very small packets, data<<overhead, so net throughput will be really small if you have a large net using multilayered protocols with many stations active. Even a small number of stations using small packets can burn much of your bandwidth because they tend to transmit frequently. My voice traffic with its short packets was VERY inefficient even though there were no ack's and no error management of any kind over the LAN. IIRC, Appletalk sends occasional traffic over an otherwise idle LAN. I don't know whether it does this when there really is traffic. The numbers you quote seem a mite low, but not embarassingly so. You are configured as a single segment, are you not? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 1:03 PM Subject: OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT >I'm wondering what the effective speed of 10Mbit Ethernet is. I've got a >DEC 3000/300LX that just isn't giveing me the kind of Xfer rates I expect, >and I'm wondering/suspecting there is a problem with my calculations. >Using a pair of PDF's totalling 24.6MB as my test I'm getting 8.34MB/Min, >yet I'd expect it to be closer to 72MB/Min. > >The machine on the other end is a G4/450 PowerMac with 100BaseT, plugged >into a 10/100Mbit switch, the DEC3000 is plugged into a 10/100Mbit hub >which in turn is connected to the switch. > >Of course part of this could be the 21064/125 processor, and part of it >could be the fact I'm using Appletalk. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 3 months

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Applesoft BASIC question

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/14/99 7:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com writes: > Anyone know if Comments in my program will slow it down? > > (Anybody want yet another startrek game?) > > ron > i dont think they will, but keep your variables to two characters or less. to applesoft, AP variable is the same as APPLESOFT as a variable. you should also put your subroutines near the beginning of the program which will save execution time. DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<But are you running over 10baseT (or 10base2) all the way? Zane's system <might take a fair performance hit because either the hub or the switch is <buffering every packet and retransmitting it. Or there is enough traffic on the net to have holdoffs and collisons which will really slow things. Allison

26 years, 3 months

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OT: patenting an old year/date concept, to make millions

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Check outghis article, it appears that somone recently patented the idea of using a pivot date, such as 30, and having the computer consider numbers below that pivot point as being in the year 20??, ie as being from 2000 - 2029. and he's trying to force companies that used that programming technique to fix their Y2K problems, to pay him millions. 70% of companies supposedly use that concept. http://www.startribune.com/viewers/qview/cgi/qview.cgi?template=tech_a&slug… -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 3 months

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Intecolor Fuse Question

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

So I pulled the Intecolor terminal out of the car...model 8001i. The fuse is missing but I'm wondering what the deal is: It's a square fuse holder. I've always seen round ones before. Are there standard fuse types that fit this holder and how hard will it be to find a new cover for it? Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 14, 22:10, Eric Smith wrote: > pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) wrote: > > But are you running over 10baseT (or 10base2) all the way? Zane's system > > might take a fair performance hit because either the hub or the switch is > > buffering every packet and retransmitting it. > > Oh, and I forgot to mention that a true "hub" (which in Ethernet terms > is just a multiport repeater) does not buffer any packets. > > The newer so-called Dual Speed Hubs incorporate a two-port switch (which > in Ethernet terms is a bridge). They don't buffer packets between same-speed > hosts, but will buffer packets between 10 and 100 Mbps hosts. Which is exactly what I was referring to, since Zane described his system as having 10Mb/s at one end, and 100Mb/s at the other :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 3 months

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M/PM OS?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Ok time to show my ignorance again. I just brought home a logic analyzer that has a built in computer that's running M/PM II Ver 2.1. I know M/PM is a multi-tasking version of CPM but that's about all. Can someone tell me more about it or point me toward a good FAQ? What kind of processor do this usually run on? I have no one idea what's inside this box. One of the notes that I got with this stuff hints that it will run "regular" CPM programs. What do you know about that? Joe

26 years, 3 months

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Intecolor Fuse Question

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've got a few devices with the square fuse holder in them. It's as common as the round ones, though I've lost covers and had a terrible time replacing them. The ones I have use standard (3AG) fuses as do the round ones. I guess there were a lot of guys who liked square Greenlee punches better than the D-shaped ones. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 4:40 PM Subject: Intecolor Fuse Question > >So I pulled the Intecolor terminal out of the car...model 8001i. The fuse >is missing >but I'm wondering what the deal is: It's a square fuse holder. I've >always seen >round ones before. Are there standard fuse types that fit this holder and >how hard >will it be to find a new cover for it? > >Thanks... > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > >

26 years, 3 months

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AT&T 3B2

by ken_g＠MailAndNews.com

I have an old AT&T 3B2/600 and 2 3B2/500 computer systems. I am looking for a boot tape and install media for them. They run AT&T unix. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Ken Guenther

26 years, 3 months

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M/PM OS?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ok time to show my ignorance again. I just brought home a logic analyze <that has a built in computer that's running M/PM II Ver 2.1. I know M/PM Thats MP/M. <is a multi-tasking version of CPM but that's about all. Can someone tell m <more about it or point me toward a good FAQ? What kind of processor do <this usually run on? I have no one idea what's inside this box. One of 8080, z80, z180, 8085. It's cpm with multitasking addins basically. When it was ported to 80x86 it became CCPM. <the notes that I got with this stuff hints that it will run "regular" CPM <programs. What do you know about that? It does IF the programs don't run around the BDOS, the MPM bios is often banked and direct bios calls tend to muck up. Allison

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<DEC 3000/300LX that just isn't giveing me the kind of Xfer rates I expect, <and I'm wondering/suspecting there is a problem with my calculations. <Using a pair of PDF's totalling 24.6MB as my test I'm getting 8.34MB/Min, <yet I'd expect it to be closer to 72MB/Min. 140kbytes/sec is slow. I'd expect much better than that. I'd expect better than that using LAT/LAP/DECnet out of a VS2000. Burst rate for 10bT should hit 1.25mbytes/sec but, averages in the sub 400kbytes/sec range are more likely. If the eithernet is busy it can drop more. <The machine on the other end is a G4/450 PowerMac with 100BaseT, plugged <into a 10/100Mbit switch, the DEC3000 is plugged into a 10/100Mbit hub <which in turn is connected to the switch. <Of course part of this could be the 21064/125 processor, and part of it <could be the fact I'm using Appletalk. It's the appletalk. Try TCP/IP. It's certainly not the cpu you have plenty of speed there. Allison

26 years, 3 months

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Intecolor Terminal Acquisition Report

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

Picked up a spiffy Intecolor terminal for free today. I recall one, circa 83 or so, used as the console on an HVAC system at my University. They were really nice, IIRC. What's more interested, however, is WHERE I picked it up...from an employee at Microware in West Des Moines. I got to see their new building that they moved into last year. For those of you who don't know, they are the company that sells OS-9, used on things like Cocos alot. At any rate, I never saw so much cool OS-9 stuff in my life! The guy who gave me the terminal was showing me some websites where people are doing some of the most amazing things with Cocos. One URL is http://bullsbarn.stg.net/, which is the home page for Penn Fest, which is a weekend long fest for those into Coco's. Some cool images. People are expanding Coco's with real I/O, 4 mhz upgrades by turning off some of Tandy's custom chips, 2 and 4 megabyte RAM upgrades, make the graphics chip do more colors than it's supposed to be able to do. IDE interfaces, SCSI interfaces. I'm not into Coco stuff personally but I was impressed at what folks are doing. Just thought I'd share the fun. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 14, 16:37, Kevin Schoedel wrote: > On 1999/11/14 at 12:00pm -0800, you wrote: > >I'm wondering what the effective speed of 10Mbit Ethernet is. I've got a > >DEC 3000/300LX that just isn't giveing me the kind of Xfer rates I expect, > I get 14.7MB/minute, copying four PDFs totalling 22MB from a > substantially slower Mac (603e at 180MHz) to a much slower (on-topic:-) > DECstation 5000 (R3000 at 33MHz) running Netatalk on NetBSD 1.4.1. But are you running over 10baseT (or 10base2) all the way? Zane's system might take a fair performance hit because either the hub or the switch is buffering every packet and retransmitting it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I'm wondering what the effective speed of 10Mbit Ethernet is. I've got a DEC 3000/300LX that just isn't giveing me the kind of Xfer rates I expect, and I'm wondering/suspecting there is a problem with my calculations. Using a pair of PDF's totalling 24.6MB as my test I'm getting 8.34MB/Min, yet I'd expect it to be closer to 72MB/Min. The machine on the other end is a G4/450 PowerMac with 100BaseT, plugged into a 10/100Mbit switch, the DEC3000 is plugged into a 10/100Mbit hub which in turn is connected to the switch. Of course part of this could be the 21064/125 processor, and part of it could be the fact I'm using Appletalk. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 3 months

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OT: Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 14, 12:00, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm wondering what the effective speed of 10Mbit Ethernet is. I've got a > DEC 3000/300LX that just isn't giveing me the kind of Xfer rates I expect, > and I'm wondering/suspecting there is a problem with my calculations. > Using a pair of PDF's totalling 24.6MB as my test I'm getting 8.34MB/Min, > yet I'd expect it to be closer to 72MB/Min. You're basing 72MB/Min on 10Mb/s x 60s divided by 8 bits/byte? No way. You're forgetting about the packet overheads. And the handshaking packets. And the delay in setting up the files and buffers at the receiving end, probably. If you're using 100/10 switchable hubs/routers, there may be a delay in there, too (they buffer the packets if they have to switch from their normal speed). If you were using FTP between two machines running TCP/IP with no other traffic, I'd expect a bit more than the sort of performance you mention, but for NFS, for example, divide by 10. > Of course part of this could be the 21064/125 processor, and part of it > could be the fact I'm using Appletalk. The processor is fast enough, but a lot depends on the software stack and the Appletalk-over-Ethernet overheads. I'm slightly surprised you're not doing better than 8MB/min = 140kB/s, but only slightly. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 3 months

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New additions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/9/99 10:29:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: > > ObClassiccmp: I just was given an *immaculate* Mac 512 with over a > > hundred disks, a printer, and an original Thunderscan.. all in soft > > nylon carry-cases. It was owned by one of those folks who have their > > equipment autoclaved every six months, just for good measure. It is > > all literally in show-room condition. Also, three unopened toner > > carts for the Laserwriter... and the person delivered them to me. > > > > Must be Kharma! > > > > OK, someone mind explaining what "autoclaved" is, or is that a typo, and if > so what should it be? > > --Confused an autoclave is what they use to sterilize lab equipment. I think it just gets very hot. No water involved. d~

26 years, 3 months

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FREE MicroVAX in UK

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Found on USENET. As always, don't reply to me, reply to the person in the message below. Zane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sat, 13 Nov 1999 03:28:36 comp.os.vms Thread 10 of 23 Lines 15 Re: The search for Vaxen RespNo 7 of 8 Chris Quayle <icq(a)aerosys.co.uk> at CQ Associates Ltd Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Javier Henderson wrote: > > Are ESDI drives being made even? > Probably not, but they are cheap or given away s/hand and if you find something like the old cdc / imprimis 5.25 full height, they last forever. I have a Microvax 3500 here free to take away. Several RA70 drives, ethernet all in a BA213 box. Any interest ?. Has netbsd on one of the drives and vms 5.4/5 on a couple of the others. Rgrds, Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 3 months

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New Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well the week was a little slow and not much is showing but I was able to get a few items. 1. ATT WCS tower rather large unit and not tested yet, only got the tower no KB or monitor with it. 2. Atari AtariLab cartridge with Probe and Atari interface module. Looks like it's for the 800 ? Anyone have a manual for this setup ? 3. Mac Performa 600 for my Mac collection. I now have 44 out of 104 models that I need to complete my Mac collection of units from 1984 to 1995. 4. 51/4 ext. Super Disk Drive by MSD model SD-1 not tested yet. 5. Franklin Ace2100 with only one floppy drive. 6. digital Data cartridge RL02K-DC 7. Tektronix 603 Storage monitor. 8. Mac LC just unit no KB, monitor, or mouse. 9. About 35 different books. 10. A control panel by MAC Panel Co. with various cables still in it. The model is 229222. 11. AA Radio Shack model-100 portable computer with a nice black carrying case and no power. Unit seems to work great using just the 4 batteries. Will play around more this weekend with it. 12. IBM PS/2 model 70 portable (joke) seems to be a 386 with 12 meg HD. Pretty heavy for a portable and only runs with a cord plugged into the wall. Well there were a few more small items but too many to list and then a few more that are 10 years old yet. Keep on computing John

26 years, 3 months

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New Finds

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/13/99 8:19:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrkeys(a)concentric.net writes: > > 12. IBM PS/2 model 70 portable (joke) seems to be a 386 with 12 meg HD. > Pretty heavy for a portable and only runs with a cord plugged into the wall. ah yes, the P70. gas plasma display so that's why it can only run on ac power. make sure your floppy drive works, there was an ECA about that. they seem to sell pretty good around this area, although i have spotted one in a computer junk store for $35, i'm holding off for cheaper. When it was new, it sold for over $7k. D~

26 years, 3 months

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