- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There's always the well-known kludge method. You get a 3-phase motor <somewhat larger than the one you want to run (any such induction motor <should work). You energise one winding from single-phase mains, using a <capacitor to generate enough phase shift to another motor winding for it <to start and run. Then use all the motor terminals as a 3-phase output to <the motor you want to run. Effectively this new motor becomes a rotary <converter. < <I assume the motors in disk drives are not that large, so this may well <work. It's certainly been done for (small) lathe motors. I've seen this done for motors in the 3-5HP range! Allison

26 years, 4 months

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PDP-11 Processor Handbook?

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Brian: At 06:49 PM 11/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >I think it's great what you're doing -- digitizing PDP-8 docs for public >use, however my main interest is the PDP-11, so I was wondering if you >have a PDP-11 Processor Handbook (preferably one that relates to the >PDP-11/45) that you plan on digitizing? Thanks. Thanks! Credit for the scanning goes to others, I just manitain the web site. I don't have anything on the pdp-11 in electronic form. Rich Cini specializes in pdp-11 stuff, he has an account on highgate too. See http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini to see what he currently has online. I've cc-ed him on this message so you can talk directly if necessary. You could also ask on the classiccmp list: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu, or on the pdp-11 list: info-pdp11(a)village.org List folks: can anybody help this fellow with an electronic format processor handbook? Good luck, Kevin > > > ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

26 years, 4 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> wrote: > On Sun, 28 Nov 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >Since the GOV also loved DEC, I'd be very surprised to learn that there's no > >practical implementation available of the EXB8200 on a DEC machine... > > They do exist...I have a couple of subsystems here which have Exabyte > drives in them (unmodified, regular SCSI drives) with bridge boards which > go to SDI connectors on the other side. We had a few of them on the VAXcluster at Lucent. Screwy damn things... you had to double-tap one of the bridge-card buttons to unload the tapes; they wouldn't unload with the internal eject button nor under VMS control. I myself have more than one 8200. If anyone is looking, let me know. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the <DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives. <They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a <close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the <drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is <a very large paper-weight. < <I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but <we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have. Why not a rotary phase converter, not the most efficient but buildable. That would allow running the drive off a single phase ckt that is heavey enough to take the load. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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DEC Qbus Card

by ndiablo＠diablonet.net

Hi! I'm not sure offhand what the card is, but you might want to check the Visual Field Guide at http://vaxarchive.org - it has a lot of information useful in regard to identifying and configuring a lot of QBus cards. -Sean Caron (root(a)diablonet.net)

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

as for myself, beer cans and antique outboard motors 1960 and earlier. In a message dated 11/26/99 4:21:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim(a)calico.litterbox.com writes: > Um... Swords. And Anime Cels. Old PCs seem to follow me home, but they > either > get taken apart and recombined into useful machines or thrown out, so I > wouldn't > call them a collection. > > > > I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the > screwiest > > > ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started > > > collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of various > > > styles now. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com

26 years, 4 months

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Obsolete media -- wanted a non-three phase RP06

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent >> tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to >> have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine, >> and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks... >> >> (anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?) >Well, considering the DEC Massbuss patent and that they damn near sued >anyone who used it to death... I don't think it will get much interest. >I don't know any company out there that would consider it. Luckily, a company called SETASI did consider, and has been selling Massbus-compatible interfaces to "modern" drives for the past two decades. DEC, as a matter of fact, has been selling several SETASI-produced units for the past several years. The SETASI Shelby has been listed as the DEC RM06 and RP12 in the DEC Systems and Options catalog for some time now. See http://www.setasi.com/DECPP.html for details. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Need DOS 3.3 to restore a PC based instrument

by edick＠idcomm.com

In case you can't get the right dos version right away, perhaps you could try loading SETVER. That should work with your later DOS version. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Stan Perkins <stan(a)netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 10:49 AM Subject: Need DOS 3.3 to restore a PC based instrument >Hello all, > >I have just acquired a PC-based instrument. It's a Model DTA 8850 >Digital Timing Analyzer, made in 1989 by a company called International >Test Instruments, Inc. in Irvine, CA. Unfortunately, they seem to be out >of business. > >The machine is based on a PC architecture, with the specialized signal >conditioning circuitry on a backplane. It has some sort of non-volatile >electronic disk as the C drive. I was able to determine that the >operating system is DOS 3.3, but there is something munged about it, >because it won't run the application software for the instrument. I can >boot the instrument from a floppy, but the only version of DOS I have is >6.22, and the instrument gives "Incorrect DOS Version" error messages >when I run the application software (but it does run). > >I would like to get a copy of DOS 3.3 to restore this machine to its >original state. Also, does anyone know anything about International Test >Instruments, or (fingers crossed) have a manual or other information >about this machine? > >Thanks in advance, >Stan

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually, the ACB4070 is a SCSI<=>RLL bridge. It operates in a way which translates what is on the disk to cyl/hd/sector. However, it talks to the host in SCSI. In any case, I've seen implementations (back when they were all over the place) which worked very well, and I've seen others which worked very poorly. Insofar as the bridge controllers were the same, I have to assume that it was because of the BIOS code. I should have informed myself about that back then, but it didn't seem important enough. Take a look at additional comments below, plz. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 10:45 AM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? ><Yes, that part of the task is quite clear. However, if you have an ACB407 ><with, say, a 60 MB drive attached to its other side with some very specifi > >Ok thats a EDSI controller. The key question is do you talk to the bridge >board in blocks or CHS? Most SCSI disks (like my RZ22s are blocks) and >the drive logic does things to make that into CHS for it's internal use. Many ESDI drives work on a logical block basis just like the SCSI's. They have in many cases, in fact, dedicated processors on the drive logic to handle the individual tasks. I've got some old Miniscribe 9380's on which I can put either an ESDI or a SCSI logic board. If you compare the two boards, they seem to have most of the same logic. Only the host interface is different. There's a dedicated MPU to run the head carriage, one to manage the raw data flow into the drive-resident buffer memory, one to handle correction/detection of errors, (in the case of the SCSI only) and one to shuffle the data between the host and drive. The thing that makes SCSI outperform ESDI in most cases is that the SCSI leaves the host adapter alone except when it's transferring corrected data. The ESDI relies on the controller to handle all the correction, etc. In an environment, e.g. DEC's MSCP, where there are enough smarts to utilize command queueing and overlapped seeks, etc, SCSI outperforms the fastest ESDI by quite a little bit. I participated in a MicroVax implementation using two ESDI drives from Maxtor for a JPL-run Army/Air Force project. When Maxtor released their SCSI drive equivalent to the very famous 4380E, which they called the 3380, we took out the Emulex ESDI controller and replaced it with someone's SCSI adapter, half the size of the ESDI one, perhaps it was from Emulex as well, and put in two of the 3380's where the 4380's had been, and got WAY better () performance. The adapter cost less than half what the ESDI one cost, the 3380 drives were $1k lower in price, at $3375, while the 4380's cost, (get this!) $4380. It wasn't a tough choice. The JPL guys didn't like the report I had written about the performance gain which went along with the price cut. I was fired (briefly) from the project, and the switch to SCSI was made a few months later. ><number of cylinders, heads, and sectors, there's yet another task to handle ><It would really be slick to figure out some combination of partitioning, ><simple arithmetic, and some form of sleight of hand, to map the sector ><number and track number you get from the BDOS into the physical drive layou ><directly, then derive a parameter for the benefit of the SCSI side of the ><controller to munch while fetching the appropriate block. The DR-supplied > >For current SCSI and IDE I just map SPT at something binary and that set >tracks to a number I can easily work with. Since TRACK and SECTOR are both >16bit values (or can be) this makes it pretty easy. > >Watch out for track (one head) and cylinder (n many heads). It seems that if the BDOS is willing to call out both the track and the sector numbers in a range from 0..FFFFH, that means you only need to specify one sector per track if all you want is a logical block (physical sector) number. You then right-shift to scale for the physical sector size and then let the deblocking code wade through undoing that. FFFFH sectors is the 8MB max allowable capacity, is it not? The bridge controller translates from logical block numbers to cyl/hd/sec in some way they don't choose to tell us mere mortals. OTOH, using the BDOS to do more of the work, sorta, you can map tracks into logical blocks, and use the sector number to point into the logical block at the appropriate 128-byte portion. What I'd like to know is what works best. It's particularly important that this be small, since it's for CP/M 2.2. > >For something like the old Xybec bridge you working with raw CHS so >something like 16 physical (64 logical) sectors per track (what it >formatted to on a ST225) and 4 heads can be sent to the bdos as 256spt >(4h*16sectors*4logicalsectors per physcial block). That means there >will be 615 tracks. Very straightforward. This gets a bit messy if >there are say 17spt (512byte sectors) but then if there are 4 heads that >makes 68 physical sectors times 4 (128 byte logical sectors) or 272 sectors >per track... awkward but manageable (note the sector value is 9bits so the >bios will have to capture the full 16 bits passed in DE from the BDOS). > >Myself unless I'm working with floppies I give the bios table (disk >prarmeter block) numbers like 256spt and say 2047 blocks (8mb logical disk >with 4k allocation size). That means the concatination of TRACK and SECTOR >passed to the bios will be a pure binary number of the logical sector >(0-65535) the BDOS wants. I can then in the BIOS translate that to what >ever mapping I need. Generally for SCSI disks I add some number of blocks >to that to get the track offest for partitioning or system tracks. What do you find this does to your directory allocation scheme? I've never quite figured out how to optimize the block size so you don't either run out of directory entries or disk space far too soon. ><code (DEBLOCK.ASM) will handle the selection of the right 128-byte block ><easily enough. > >You can do better than DEBLOCK. If you have space caching larger that >physical blocks give a real performance boost. > ><Barry Watzman was kind enough to root through his BDOS listings to assure m ><that while the sample BIOS's in every case use only a byte for the sector ><number and track number, those are developed to 16-bits and passed as such ><in and from the BDOS and to the BIOS. This means one has to make no ><concessions to CP/M about contiguous block numbering. It gets ugly, though > >Barry's examples are practice VS what the BDOS actually does. The BDOS >passes 16 bit values for both track and sector. If the SPT happens to be >set to less that 257 then you can be assured the BIOS will recieve a 16 bit >sector with the upper byte of 00. Why not take advantage of the BDOS doing >this work? For all the BDOS cares SPT can be 1 or 65535! all it does is >crank out a different "track" value for those cases. > >Hint in the past I've use 4 spt! that means the sector number is an index >into a physical block for a 512byte sector (for deblocking). Track has the >relative block (0-16384) for me to crack into physical head, sector, track. >Or in the case of most SCSI disks the actual block I want from the drive. Yes, this is what I meant, above. >The one thing that is hard limit is there will be 65536 sectors MAXIMUM to a >logical disk under cpm 2.2. If you have P2DOS, ZRdos, Novados, CPM3 those >all increase by a minimum of 4 to 32mb and can be as large as 1gb for >logical disks (if you can live with a allocation size of 32k and have the >alloc table space). > ><if you want to fit those nice, neat numbers into a scheme supporting 7 ><heads, 1117 cylinders, and 26 sectors of 512 bytes into it. > >It will not fit as that is a 1Gb disk! Reality is the BDOS (V2.2) can >only deal with a 8mb partition of that (some 128 partitions would be >needed and CPM is never going to do all of them <limit of 16>). Also >while some of the CPM clones will address a disk this large the granularity >is really bad as they want to use 32k allocation blocks. It can be done >but you going to have to create a "different" bios that will allow ony of >the 16 logical drive to be assigned to any physical drive (or a partition on >one). Actually, it's a 99.25 MB disk. It's a miniscribe 3085 used with RLL. Since I have one of these lying about, and since the 4070 is an RLL bridge, I thought I'd use those numbers. >I've done this enough times to know what the book says, what people have >done (not all good either!) and what the BDOS really does (read the code!). >What the BDOS sends back is reflective of the Disk Parameter Block and those >numbers do not have to have any relationship to the physical device other >than some consistancy on total device size. Keep in mind the BDOS has no >concept of heads (you have to deal with that in the bios) and could care >less about the geometry of the disk as that is something the bios writer has >to decide. > >There are few hard rules for the CPM bios and a great deal of flexibility >if you care to take advantage. > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by aek＠spies.com

"IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for washing-machine-sized disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a couple of years of when it was developed? " It makes perfect sense, and as soon as I can get a mechanism running to read the packs, the data will be archived. If it was simple to get this done, I would have finished the project years ago. Archiving data in a form that is "useable over time" is another matter entirely, and I'm sure it must have been the subject of many messages here in the past.

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, that part of the task is quite clear. However, if you have an ACB407 <with, say, a 60 MB drive attached to its other side with some very specifi Ok thats a EDSI controller. The key question is do you talk to the bridge board in blocks or CHS? Most SCSI disks (like my RZ22s are blocks) and the drive logic dows things to make that into CHS for it's internal use. <number of cylinders, heads, and sectors, there's yet another task to handle <It would really be slick to figure out some combination of partitioning, <simple arithmetic, and some form of sleight of hand, to map the sector <number and track number you get from the BDOS into the physical drive layou <directly, then derive a parameter for the benefit of the SCSI side of the <controller to munch while fetching the appropriate block. The DR-supplied For current SCSI and IDE I just map SPT at something binary and that set tracks to a number I can easily work with. Since TRACK and SECTOR are both 16bit values (or can be) this makes it pretty easy. Watch out for track (one head) and cylinder (n many heads). For something like the old Xybec bridge you working with raw CHS so something like 16 physical (64 logical) sectors per track (what it formatted to on a ST225) and 4 heads can be sent to the bdos as 256spt (4h*16sectors*4logicalsectors per physcial block). That means there will be 615 tracks. Very straightforward. This gets a bit messy if there are say 17spt (512byte sectors) but then if there are 4 heads that makes 68 physical sectors times 4 (128 byte logical sectors) or 272 sectors per track... awkward but manageable (note the sector value is 9bits so the bios will ahve to capture the full 16 bits passed in DE from the BDOS). Myself unless I'm working with floppies I give the bios table (disk prarmeter block) numbers like 256spt and say 2047 blocks (8mb logical disk with 4k allocation size). That means the concatination of TRACK and SECTOR passed to the bios will be a pure binary number of the logical sector (0-65535) the BDOS wants. I can then in the BIOS translate that to what ever mapping I need. Generally for SCSI disks I add some number of blocks to that to get the track offest for partitioning or system tracks. <code (DEBLOCK.ASM) will handle the selection of the right 128-byte block <easily enough. You can do better than DEBLOCK. If you have space caching larger that physical blocks give a real performance boost. <Barry Watzman was kind enough to root through his BDOS listings to assure m <that while the sample BIOS's in every case use only a byte for the sector <number and track number, those are developed to 16-bits and passed as such <in and from the BDOS and to the BIOS. This means one has to make no <concessions to CP/M about contiguous block numbering. It gets ugly, though Barry's examples are practice VS what the BDOS actually does. The BDOS passes 16 bit values for both track and sector. If the SPT happens to be set to less that 257 then you can be assured the BIOS will recieve a 16 bit sector with the upper byte of 00. Why not take advantage of the BDOS doing this work? For all the BDOS cares SPT can be 1 or 65535! all it does is crank out a different "track" value for those cases. Hint in the past I've use 4 spt! that means the sector number is an index into a physical block for a 512byte sector (for deblocking). Track has the relative block (0-16384) for me to crack into physical head, sector, track. Or in the case of most SCSI disks the actual block I want from the drive. The one thing that is hard limit is there will be 65536 sectors MAXIMUM to a logical disk under cpm 2.2. If you have P2DOS, ZRdos, Novados, CPM3 those all increase by a minimum of 4 to 32mb and can be as large as 1gb for logical disks (if you can live with a allocation size of 32k and have the alloc table space). <if you want to fit those nice, neat numbers into a scheme supporting 7 <heads, 1117 cylinders, and 26 sectors of 512 bytes into it. It will not fit as that is a 1Gb disk! Reality is the BDOS (V2.2) can only deal with a 8mb partition of that (some 128 partitions would be needed and CPM is never going to do all of them <limit of 16>). Also while some of the CPM clones will address a disk this large the granularity is really bad as they want to use 32k allocation blocks. It can be done but you going to have to create a "different" bios that will allow ony of the 16 logical drive to be assigned to any physical drive (or a partition on one). I've done this enough times to know what the book says, what people have done (not all good either!) and what the BDOS really does (read the code!). What the BDOS sends back is reflective of the Disk Parameter Block and those numbers do not have to have any relationship to the physical device other than some consistancy on total device size. Keep in mind the BDOS has no concept of heads (you have to deal with that in the bios) and could care less about the geometry of the disk as that is something the bios writer has to decide. There are few hard rules for the CPM bios and a great deal of flexibility if you care to take advantage. Allison

26 years, 4 months

1
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Dayna File

by jcountry＠seidata.com

Did you ever find one/data or manual/ or better yet the software to make them work? I've got two of them here (one 3.5/5.25 the other dsdd 5.25/dshd 5.25) but only one power supply and no software. They show on the scsi bus to scsi probe, but won't mount a disk to the desktop...I suppose I need software for that? I find a site on the dayna ftp that has versions of the driver...but they are password protected, so they are of no use to me, and their tech support hasn't answered. All ideas/help appreciated! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Home | Collection > > > > Software | Mailing Lists > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] > > Re: Dayna File II > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > * Subject: Re: Dayna File II > * From: jruschme(a)hiway1.exit109.com > * Date: Thu, 25 Mar 99 17:20:57 +0000 > * Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > * Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > <pre> > I found a couple of these surplus. They're external 5 1/4" floppy drives > and appear to have a SCSI connector. Does anyone know what system they're > for? Are they SCSI? What voltage and polarity is the external power > supply? Any details appreciated. > </pre> > > They are SCSI and with the appropriate software would allow one to read > PC-format disks on a Mac. Not sure about the adapter, but I *think* one > can still find the software at: > > ftp://ftp.dayna.com/Pub/Macintosh/DaynaFile/ > > A couple of notes: 1) They've been discontinued for quite a while, so I > don't know how well it will work with newer OS releases. 2) Apparently, > they equipped them with different types of drives as I've seen ones with > 360K, 1.2MB, and even 1.44MB floppy drives. > > I have to confess that I wouldn't mind finding a cheap one to play > with. Unfortunately, the ones I've seen always seem to be out of my > range. > > <<<john>>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * Prev by Date: Re: Floppy drive Jumper question > * Next by Date: Re: Open Houses (was Re: Museums) > * Prev by thread: Re: Dayna File II > * Next by thread: Dayna File II > * Index(es): > o Date > o Thread > > > > > Created by: Kevan Heydon on Thursday, 25-Mar-1999 09:36:00 PST

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by cem14＠cornell.edu

I know, bad form to reply to my own post, but I kept on reading the report and found more specific stuff: At 12:46 AM 11/28/99 -0500, I wrote: >>From the numbers quoted, a little over 10000 cases of thyroid cancer >(which has a 10% mortality rate), mostly in children, can be blamed on >Chernobyl. The exact figure until 1996 was actually 800 people in the three most exposed countries. Projections of excess cancers resulting in death over the lifetime of all those exposed have been revised downwards continuously. They are currently at about 7000, but the lack of incidence of leukemia (compared to what they expected) is making people to further downgrade the expected death toll. Of course, many people venture figures; Greenpeace estimates that the death toll will eventually be 30000, but most cancer epidemiologists disagree, according to the report.

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by foxnhare＠jps.net

> Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? > Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:48:11 -0800 > From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> > To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > > I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the screwiest > ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started > collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of various > styles now. I never think of my collections screwey, but other (mundane souls) may have problems with that. Here are my top must-grabs: * Commodore stuff (Micros, Monitors, Literature, am kinda looking for a C= filing cabinet now.) * Wierd Movies (Plan 9 from Outer Space, Dr. Caligari, stuff by Troma and other videos of 'unique' quality.) mainstream is getting too gross and violent. * Computer related books and movies (like reading good computer history and tales in fiction; though nowadays it is hard to find 'good' stuff in all the crud being made.) * BASIC program/programming books, mainly 8-Bit BASIC stuff (I was surprised to find a single player chess game in BASIC in one). -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-2400 baud Commodore 8-bit page at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by classiccmp＠mrynet.com

> At 11:48 AM 11/27/99 -0800, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > >Slashdot has a link to an MSNBC story about the Russians restarting reactor > >#3 at the Chernobyl plant in the Ukraine. They need the power but can't > >afford a new reactor. > > The reactor that had the fire was (and is) irretrievable. The new reactor > was one that was in process to go on line before the disaster and has never > been run. > > There are several interesting reports about Chernobyl but perhaps the one > most sobering is that during its time of operation, _including_ the > meltdown, it has generated more power and killed fewer people and done less > harm to the environment than the coal fired plants in Michigan. The damage > those plants have done include dumping so much sulphur and other chemicals > into the air that they have killed vast tracts of forest and made some > lakes and streams completely devoid of life. If you add the number of > people killed in coal mining accidents and getting black lung disease the > numbers are even worse. > > Consider it flame bait if you like, but if you run the numbers this country > would be a lot better off (fewer people killed generating the power, fewer > natural resources destroyed) with a nuclear power infrastructure than it > would be with a fossil fuel powered one. The issue is not one of nuclear power vs fossil fuel (or otherwise). It is one of mismanagement, disregard, spitefulness (towards the IMF and others, in paraphrase, "If you don't pay us to shut it down, we won't."), and the continued use of poor technology and less-than-marginal safeguards. The recommendations and subsequent agreement in decision to shut the plant down was for safety reasons. It was not simply because its sister plant failed that it was shut down--the fundamental design for operation and containment are flawed. It is sad you compare this Soviet-era technology to that of the U.S. or even other modern installations. The number of casualties in Ukraine alone are in the thousands for the first months after the accident there. Well over 150,000 people have now died as a result. This from a single incident. The numbers are staggering. There are still tens of thousands of people suffering and dying from thyroid cancer. There are towns for a hundred miles surrounding the plant that have been evacuated and are now off-limits. The radiation is still there. The radiation is still killing people. The radiation will not go away soon. Let's not confuse a world-wide coal-fueled industry (dare you imply the U.S. of being alone here) to the Chernobyl installation which has proven design flaws. Whether the sister reactor had been brought online or not (which I won't bother going into, since your information is wrong there as well), the fact remains: they are of the same design and the same generation. The reason the reactor is being brought online is political. It is not one of dire necessity. It is purely political, and economic as well. Here again the callousness towards humanity comes into play. The Soviet Legacy prevails. People, if you need to, search the web. Get educated, or at least informed. The world has forgotten the true nature and impact of the Chernobyl accident. These innocent dead and dying people don't deserve to be forgotten and this should not be repeated by arrogance. I believe the simple act of taking just a few minutes to type into a web search engine, "chernobyl dead," will elighten people much more than what they think they know about the issue. The Western press is infamous for its minimal reporting, and then only when the subject is current, topical, and fantastic enough to gain readership. You simply must find out from more than one source and without the Media Fantasy bias. Respectfully, Scott G. Taylor -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

Yes, that part of the task is quite clear. However, if you have an ACB4070 with, say, a 60 MB drive attached to its other side with some very specific number of cylinders, heads, and sectors, there's yet another task to handle. It would really be slick to figure out some combination of partitioning, simple arithmetic, and some form of sleight of hand, to map the sector number and track number you get from the BDOS into the physical drive layout directly, then derive a parameter for the benefit of the SCSI side of the controller to munch while fetching the appropriate block. The DR-supplied code (DEBLOCK.ASM) will handle the selection of the right 128-byte block easily enough. Barry Watzman was kind enough to root through his BDOS listings to assure me that while the sample BIOS's in every case use only a byte for the sector number and track number, those are developed to 16-bits and passed as such in and from the BDOS and to the BIOS. This means one has to make no concessions to CP/M about contiguous block numbering. It gets ugly, though, if you want to fit those nice, neat numbers into a scheme supporting 7 heads, 1117 cylinders, and 26 sectors of 512 bytes into it. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:40 PM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? > ><It would be interesting to see SOMETHING for the 33C93, but what puzzles m ><more than anything else is the question of how to cook up a quick and dirt ><translation from the CP/M drive/track/sector specification to a logical ><block structure as is used on SCSI/SASI devices. CP/M 2.2 is so much nice > >This is real easy, first remember you going to be limited to 8mb unless you >used something like P2DOS or ZRdos. > >With that said and done... > >This means there will be 65536 sectors to a logical disk (CP/M-80 V2). > > SPT set that to some handy number like 64, that means tracks will be > expressed as 64 sector chunks. > > That means there has to be 1024 tracks. This will be the bios passed > numbers for track and sector. > > Of course thats logical sectors (128bytes) this will have to be grouped > 2 or 4 per physical sector (256 or 512bytes). Deblocking will be done > locally on the host and all reads and writes will be at the disk physical > level. > > Offset (reserved tracks) is sized as logical tracks (what ever sector > amount has been set up) > > of course there is more work but those are the clues. > >By using binary sizes for sectors, them math to concatenate tracks and >sectors into "blocks" is a matter of a few right or left shifts. > ><if you have a maximal TPA which won't happen if one's using table lookups ><and stuff in place of computations to determine which block contains what ><the OS is in sector ss of track tt on drive x. You see, if this is ><implemented on a bridge controller which talks SCSI to the system, but whos ><drives are ST-506 interfaced, there are good ways and bad ways to allocate ><blocks. It's simple enough to do one layer, but if you have to deal with ><two, how you do one will have substantial impact on how the other works out > >This is hard to follow but the bios does not have to be large and the real >space grabber is the ALLOC vector. If the system has banking even a 4k or >16k bank in low memory can easily swallow the various host buffers and >Allocation storage which can be large. > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

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GRiDcase batteries

by diplodocus1＠worldnet.att.net

I don't know if this has been already mentioned on this thread, since I have just discovered this site, but I operate my 1520 from a 12 V battery on my sailboat without any apparent problem. I've used it mainly to get radio weatherfaxes. I just bought a 22 mm female plug from Radio Shack, wired it to the 12 V power supply and stuck it into the jack on the back of the GRiD (next to the battery pack). One trhing that bothers me when receiving faxes is the screen going dark after a fes seconds. Anybody knows how to disable this battery-saving function ? (which I don't need since the 1520 consumes only 1 Ah, which is peanuts for a 100 A deep cycle battery). john

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I agree, fundamentally, with what you say. I just don't see how letting what's essentially becoming a third-world nation after fifty years of being a technological leader, freeze because it displeases US for them to run their flawed reactor, for which they've already paid, is gong to help anyone, especially since they can't just build a replacement with any technology. Surviving to get there is more important than having a pristine "there" to get. It doesn't matter if we're all surely going to die if we're already dead. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? ><It's just a different outlook, doncha know . . . they're looking at a reall ><cold winter for which they need the power to survive. If they don't ><survive, it's not going to help them that their grandchildren will have a ><cleaner planet, since their grandchildren will freeze too. > >Well, what you don't know. Chernobyl is 4 plants, one crashed due to >operator error. It was a hell of a mess that will take a long time to >disappear. In the meantime people are cold and hungry. Maybe it's not >right but, neither is sick people. Right now that country is trying to >make it as something other than communist I think they have enough right >at that. > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It would be interesting to see SOMETHING for the 33C93, but what puzzles m <more than anything else is the question of how to cook up a quick and dirt <translation from the CP/M drive/track/sector specification to a logical <block structure as is used on SCSI/SASI devices. CP/M 2.2 is so much nice This is real easy, first remember you going to be limited to 8mb unless you used something like P2DOS or ZRdos. With that said and done... This means there will be 65536 sectors to a logical disk (CP/M-80 V2). SPT set that to some handy number like 64, that means tracks will be expressed as 64 sector chunks. That means there has to be 1024 tracks. This will be the bios passed numbers for track and sector. Of course thats logical sectors (128bytes) this will have to be grouped 2 or 4 per physical sector (256 or 512bytes). Deblocking will be done locally on the host and all reads and writes will be at the disk physical level. Offset (reserved tracks) is sized as logical tracks (what ever sector amount has been set up) of course there is more work but those are the clues. By using binary sizes for sectors, them math to concatenate tracks and sectors into "blocks" is a matter of a few right or left shifts. <if you have a maximal TPA which won't happen if one's using table lookups <and stuff in place of computations to determine which block contains what <the OS is in sector ss of track tt on drive x. You see, if this is <implemented on a bridge controller which talks SCSI to the system, but whos <drives are ST-506 interfaced, there are good ways and bad ways to allocate <blocks. It's simple enough to do one layer, but if you have to deal with <two, how you do one will have substantial impact on how the other works out This is hard to follow but the bios does not have to be large and the real space grabber is the ALLOC vector. If the system has banking even a 4k or 16k bank in low memory can easily swallow the various host buffers and Allocation storage which can be large. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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hey, have old computer stuff for sale, have to make some room here

by Maddog1331＠aol.com

Hey all, I have a bunch of old comptuer stuff that I need to move to make room here in the apartment...argh....I have some up for auction on EBAY, you can look at those auctions if you wish at: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&u… id=maddog1331&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Here is the other stuff I have here at the house, not yet up for auction. Please let me know if any of you are interested. Here is the stuff that I have, sorry, its in no particular order, and also it is just one item unless otherwise specified. All this stuff is untested as of yet, so if you are interested in anything here, I will test it for you if I can :-) Also any drives listed, except Amdek, are the big 5.25...the Amdeks are a weird size drive, like takes 3 in disks or something. Another thing, these are in order by what box I put them in...lol...it was a quick easy filing system...had to get the stuff sorted as best I could. Box 1 Intellivision II Atari 800 3 Atari 825 4 Unknown Floppy Disk Drives U-SCI Drive Rana Systems 1000 Drive Mirco Stuffer Printer Buffer Amdesk III unit, has no drives in it. 4 Atari 1020 Joystick controller thingy, its a Wico Command Control Tandy Joystick 2 Printer replacement parts, I think for the small Atari printer...these are metal bar looking things Atari 822 Atari 1027 Box 2 Atari 1029 Atari 820 2 Atari 65 XE Atari 800 XL (says 256k Rambo EX on a home made label on it...an upgrade maybe?) Atari 835 2 Big Blue Printers Percom Data Drive Epson Letter Jet Printer Amdek Amdisk III Dual Floppy Atari 1050 Alphacom Printer Atari 825 Atari CX85 Keypad Box 3 Atari 810 Amdek Amdisk III, no drives in it Universal Data Systems Model 212LP Atari 1027 4 Atari 1020 Percom Data Drive Unknown Dual Floppy Atari 800 2 Motherboards, I think...not sure what they go to...one is huge, the other is small. Power Supply, I think....its a board type thingy..dunno Replacement Keyboards: 2 510 ASCII, 6 other Various ones, Atari maybe? Some still in shrinkwrap. Box 4 TRS 80 Disk Video Interface Commodore 128 Radio Shack TRS 80 Color Computer 2 Atari Portfolio Boxed Smart Parallell Interface Model HPC-101. Box is rough, but all looks to be there Casadapter - Casette interface for all Atari computers (or so it says) De Re Atari Anno Domini MCMLXXXI: A Guide to effective programming for Atari 400-800 computers Boxed Star Raiders w/touchpad, for Atari 2600 Madness & the Minotaur TRS-80 Casette 2 Atari joystick sketchpad casette programs, casette only 16k Ram Board, Atari? not sure Parallell Printer Cable for Atari 850 Boxed, but box is rough Boxed Rampage (rough) 3.5 disk 2 Ribbons for Diablo Hytype II Daisywheel Printer TI 99 Speech Synthesizer NCR Keyboard Apricot Keyboard (looks like its remote controlled even, has a place for batteries) ApricotF2 Dual Disk drive, this is the system unit maybe? I am not sure Riteman LQ Printer CypherBowl Atari 16K casette game in Box, looks to be completel Book: Writing in the Computer age, 1983 Plotter Pens, Injector ink, various 24 Unknown casettes Spectra Strip Ribbon Cable (small box, but heavy as heck! Did they make these out of lead or something?! lol) Atari Personal Financial Management System Manual ( its Heavy also) 20+ Casette tapes, Some from Magatari Magazine, dunno about the others tho, but there are programs on one side of them according to the labels...they say Issue 44 or whatever number on the other side..I am thinking they are maybe all Magatari Magazine issues on casette, maybe they just got fancy with the labels in the later years..I think that there are Magatari casettes 1-12 in here, plus the others. Book-Executive Computing Loose stuff Boxed Riteman LQ Printer, looks new Boxed Alphacom 81 80 Column Printer, Also looks good. I also have various monitors, but dont have them stored here though...as soon as I can get to where they are I will get the info on them...I think 2 are Tandy monitors. Also, I have 2 fax machines, and a really really HUGE dot matrix printer stored with the monitors...I will go through and catalog that stuff as soon as I can. Mark

26 years, 4 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by aek＠spies.com

">Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? Indeed they do. They're one of my regular annual scrounge-stops. They've long since moved from their original location across from Fly's, but they're still there. " A bit of history.. Many years ago, Richard Anderson (currently RA Enterprises) met an engineer that was just left Shugart named Chuck Schuetz and started Weird Stuff in Milpitas (next to Atari Games). It was an amazing place, problem is they wanted too much for most of the stuff, and it ended up getting sold for metal scrap after sitting around for months. The city was hassling them for running a retail operation in the area, so they did a HUGE downsizing, moved some stuff to a small warehouse in Sunnyvale, and set up shop at the place on Laurence Expr. Richard got out of the partnership around the time they moved, and started another place called A-Z Electronics on Bascom with Lila Zinter, who mostly deals in office stuff. A-Z moved to Milpitas into the same building that eventually became Surplus Stuff (Curtis Trading, mostly different folks except for Ron, the tech who used to work at Weird Stuff). Richard started a different place, called RA Enterprises, which was on De La Cruz Blvd in Santa Clara until a year ago, when it moved to Walsh (about a mile away). Latest word is Richard has sold the place to some folks working for him, and is going to retire (well, he says he's just going to broker test equipment now..) after doing this for over 25 years. ..oh, almost forgot about the little place Richard used to have in San Jose when he met Chuck... There are lots of little stories like this in the valley..

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's no secret, by the way. A few months ago public TV had a long program dealing with the misconceptions about nuclear power generation and how the press distorted all the "facts" surrounding 3-mile island and it's incident back in the '70's. They even stated that the dirt right around the nuclear power plant had the lowest radioactivity of any area within some substantial radius, since that's a coal-bearing area and normal ambient radiation levels are actually quite high. What's really important here, in the U.S. is that you have to get the GOV to keep the industry straight, but not get into the industry's pocket. The same sloppy work and corruption that caused the Chernobyl problem is what scares most of those who follow the truths of the situation. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Murillo-Sanchez <cem14(a)cornell.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? >Chuck McManis wrote: >> >> Consider it flame bait if you like, but if you run the numbers this country >> would be a lot better off (fewer people killed generating the power, fewer >> natural resources destroyed) with a nuclear power infrastructure than it >> would be with a fossil fuel powered one. >> >> --Chuck > >and, if you consider the possibility of catastrophic climate >change from global warming resulting by past and >present burning (the blame falling disproportionately on the US), >the number of casualties might be in the billions, due to >starvation. I know, nobody really knows what _could_ happen, >but nobody can deny that the possibility exists either. Well, >maybe some people deny it, but by and large they are linked to >the oil companies. > >To keep this on topic, I have been comparing daily electric load >profiles from 40, 30 and 20 years ago to the present ones. >Starting 40 years ago, profiles became bimodal (one peak at >11:00 AM, another (larger) around 5-6:00PM in winter, or 8:00PM >in the summer). So, turning the lights >on at home after work (and for preparing dinner) meant the >largest load. This second peak slowly evolved to an earlier >hour (2:00PM-4:00PM), while the earlier peak grew to a size >comparable to that of the second one in winter, and only slightly >smaller in the summer. Only two factors at work here: computers >and air conditioning. > >-- >Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14(a)cornell.edu >428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department >Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853

26 years, 4 months

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Wow, great way to get pictures of boards!

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I was just wanting to make some notes on a picture of one of the Omnibus boards I'm trying to troubleshoot. I don't know if anyone has tried this, but I just carefully placed a Omnibus board on my scanner, and scanned it in. Had to adjust the brightness and contrast of the resulting image, but the results are fantastic! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 4 months

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OT: Sony VAIO

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

This is fairly off topic but I just had to share it with a group that would appreciate a nice hack. On my new Sony VAIO laptop the wall paper is a picture of water with the VAIO logo floating above it (reflecting in the water). When I turned it on the first time it was a really cool night scene with stars and everything. When I turned it on this afternoon the scene was filled with virtual sunlight! The picture is synchronized with the clock to show the correct lighting based on the local time. Very clever... --Chuck

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I haven't heard about the bugs, though the device has been pretty much <obsolete since WD stopped selling chips and went to making drives instead. <If you have drivers for the 5380, I would appreciate a look at them as well <I've never looked at a BIOS using SCSI or SASI, both of which are <block-oriented rather than being cyl/hd/sector based. The best 5380 bios out there is the AmproLB, check the FTP sites first as wrapping them up to send them is a bit of a pain on this crate. Another systems that did SASI/SCSI is the VISUAL 1050. Of course the 5380 code is in Linux and MINIX sources, maybe 33C93 as well. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It's just a different outlook, doncha know . . . they're looking at a reall <cold winter for which they need the power to survive. If they don't <survive, it's not going to help them that their grandchildren will have a <cleaner planet, since their grandchildren will freeze too. Well, what you don't know. Chernobyl is 4 plants, one crashed due to operator error. It was a hell of a mess that will take a long time to disappear. In the meantime people are cold and hungry. Maybe it's not right but, neither is sick people. Right now that country is trying to make it as something other than communist I think they have enough right at that. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually, the worst damage possible has already occurred. If it happens again, it won't do much additional damage, aside from loss of in-plant life. The surrounding area is already lethally contaminated. A fossil-fuel powered plant would create as much environmental damage over the six or seven years between major incidents, so I don't see this as a major risk to us. Now, if I lived nearby, I might feel differently. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? >[Nukes are safer] > >True. Nukes are safer and better in the long run that fossil fuel stuff. >It's just the unknowns of nukes and the complexity that boggles people. > >Imagine me in charge of a nuke plant, with my attitdue about stuff. >(Namely, if it don't work, fuck with it until it does) >I bet that would cause some trouble. (What happens if I open this valve? >let's find out... *BOOM* > >Could be worse. Imagine a microsoftie there. ^_^ >(Meltdown imminent? This don't sound good. Reboot it!) > >Ignore my typoes and incoherency here. ^_^ I'm in a funny mood today. > >(The russians: "Okay, is #3 ready? Yes? Okay, boot that sucker!" > [Image: Windows CE logo] "Where do you want to glow today?") > >-------

26 years, 4 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:34:39 -0500 (EST) rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com writes: >Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives >on a pallet, with the >backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch >and one other have been >broken. *Snort*. SOunds like a ripoff to me, but typical of how stuff is priced in that joint. They put these really unreasonable price tags on stuff, and when they don't sell, instead of lowering the price, they pitch it! I watched a whole pallet load of 8" FDD's for example trashed because no one wanted to pay $25 apiece. But then, theres this stuff that they totally don't have a clue about, that's like, *really* valuable, they sell at give-away prices. Wierd. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

OOOHH! N-scale! Nice stuff, even for the apartment dweller. Dick -----Original Message----- From: LordTyran <a2k(a)one.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >Trains. My Grandfather used to do quite a bit of traveling after he >retired (delivering automobiles I believe). Whatever he saw a model >store, he'd pop in and buy a few cars or an engine or two. He never put >them together or told my Grandma about it. When he was dying of cancer he >gave them to me. I've gone through some of them.. must be about 15 N-scale >engines, 100+ cars, plus all the Lionel stuff I haven't gone through yet. >Also lots of buildings and little people. > >Oh, and to keep this semi-on topic: Every times I typed the word "cars" >I automatically typed "card" the first time ;) > >Kevin > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > >"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" > >"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." > >-- BOFH #3 > >

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

It would be interesting to see SOMETHING for the 33C93, but what puzzles me more than anything else is the question of how to cook up a quick and dirty translation from the CP/M drive/track/sector specification to a logical block structure as is used on SCSI/SASI devices. CP/M 2.2 is so much nicer if you have a maximal TPA which won't happen if one's using table lookups and stuff in place of computations to determine which block contains what the OS is in sector ss of track tt on drive x. You see, if this is implemented on a bridge controller which talks SCSI to the system, but whose drives are ST-506 interfaced, there are good ways and bad ways to allocate blocks. It's simple enough to do one layer, but if you have to deal with two, how you do one will have substantial impact on how the other works out. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 3:43 PM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? > > >--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: >> I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. > >Early versions have their (well documented) problems. Commodode elected to >use the WD33C93 with the autobooting SCSI cards - A2091 and up including >the A500 slap-on A590 (either SCSI _or_ XT-IDE drives would work on it owing >to Commodore's custom controller chip between the Amiga and the 33C93) and >on the motherboard of the Amiga 3000. > >The wisdom in the Amiga arena is that even though C= shipped rev 02 and >rev 04 chips, you need the last version ever produced (rev 08?) to take >advantage of proper disconnect/reconnect operations and to have a full >7-device chain. The older chips work OK if you have one or two disk >devices, but have problems with four or five disks, a CD-ROM and a tape >drive. > > >There is example code for the WD33C93, not for CP/M, but for (Net|Free)BSD >on the Amiga. > >Also, if anyone is looking for a few rev 02 chips, I have a tube of them >that I'm keeping as Amiga spares. I could let a couple go, depending on >how much over shipping I'm offered. > >-ethan > > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI <>controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff <>would be good, too. The only SCSI drivers I've seen for CPM-80 are for discrete (SASI) and NCR 5380 chips. I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Grrrrrr (IBM 5288 MANUALS and FDDS available)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

> Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. >" > >Fine, but if you scrap a machine, try to at least get the documentation and >software to someone that can use it. Many times these items are separatated >from the computers as they're being disposed of. These items are much smaller >and are also practical to ship, and are vital to restoring the other machines >around the world that haven't been parted out. I fully agree Is what I've made with a IBM 5288 Since the machine was already dismantled, I've picked up its manual and the 8'' FDDS. In case anyone has the machine and needs them, please write and I'll be happy to ship them. Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli Riccardo Romagnoli Classic Computer Collector <chemif(a)mbox.queen.it> I-47100 Forl?

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: > I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. Early versions have their (well documented) problems. Commodode elected to use the WD33C93 with the autobooting SCSI cards - A2091 and up including the A500 slap-on A590 (either SCSI _or_ XT-IDE drives would work on it owing to Commodore's custom controller chip between the Amiga and the 33C93) and on the motherboard of the Amiga 3000. The wisdom in the Amiga arena is that even though C= shipped rev 02 and rev 04 chips, you need the last version ever produced (rev 08?) to take advantage of proper disconnect/reconnect operations and to have a full 7-device chain. The older chips work OK if you have one or two disk devices, but have problems with four or five disks, a CD-ROM and a tape drive. There is example code for the WD33C93, not for CP/M, but for (Net|Free)BSD on the Amiga. Also, if anyone is looking for a few rev 02 chips, I have a tube of them that I'm keeping as Amiga spares. I could let a couple go, depending on how much over shipping I'm offered. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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PDP-8 toggle-in diags (was Re: LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks > >> can test devices without trying to get a paper tape up... > > Your welcome. I think they will help a lot of people out as *most./all* of > the 8 has to be running to get MAINDECs fed in.I will have the programs up > on the page by Monday morning. I look forward to it. > I am having to restore PDP-8s *really* fast > so I have to be able to find problems quickly. I'm back in the swing myself... I worked on the -8/e for several hours last night (and gave a tour to friends). I even powered up a couple of -8/L's to see how they were (mis) behaving. One has a bad M220 card (can't load one of the MA bits from the switch register, but incrementing the address does work), neither works perfectly (and a third is sans core :-( ) I'm taking my Tek 465 and a TTL/CMOS IC tester out to the computer barn to further my efforts. I built a cable with a DIP header on one end and a DIP test clip on the other so I can quickly test M-series flip chip (at least the simple ones like the M111, M113, M216, etc.) I have to scope out the complicated ones like the M706/M707 I/O cards, the M220 register cards, etc. > The most important useful <1 page programs I have had to write (over the > past day) are: > tty continuous output generator (character selected on SR) Ah... I just wrote one of those... BTW, your mem test program has a typo... the 7064 instruction (LAS) should be 7604. It threw me for a while until I could get things sqare. I'm still re-learning machine code. I didn't notice that 7064 _couldn't_ be the LAS instruction (wrong group). My TTY banger has an extra feature for the -8/e - it counts characters in the MQ register: 0200 7604 CLA OSR ; Clear AC and OR in switch register 0201 6046 TLS ; Output char and clear transmit flag 0202 6041 TSF ; Skip on TTY flag 0203 5202 JMP 0202 ; Jump back repeat TTY flag test 0204 7521 SWP ; Exchange AC and MQ 0205 7001 IAC ; Increment AC 0206 7521 SWP ; Exchange AC and MQ again 0207 5200 JMP 0200 ; Repeat entire exercise While I'm on the topic of ONMIBUS TTY cards, does the M8650 *require* hardware handshake? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

I haven't heard about the bugs, though the device has been pretty much obsolete since WD stopped selling chips and went to making drives instead. If you have drivers for the 5380, I would appreciate a look at them as well. I've never looked at a BIOS using SCSI or SASI, both of which are block-oriented rather than being cyl/hd/sector based. I guess it's time I learned how that works . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 2:39 PM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? ><>Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI ><>controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff ><>would be good, too. > >The only SCSI drivers I've seen for CPM-80 are for discrete (SASI) and >NCR 5380 chips. > >I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. > >Allison >

26 years, 4 months

1
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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's just a different outlook, doncha know . . . they're looking at a really cold winter for which they need the power to survive. If they don't survive, it's not going to help them that their grandchildren will have a cleaner planet, since their grandchildren will freeze too. There's this old military addage, that "where you sit determines what you see." It certainly applies here. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Classic Computer Mailing List <classiccmp(a)mrynet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? >> Slashdot has a link to an MSNBC story about the Russians restarting reactor >> #3 at the Chernobyl plant in the Ukraine. They need the power but can't >> afford a new reactor. >> >> Sounds like a fun place to work, eh? ^_^ > >Yobanoye sovetskoe naslesdtvo. > >The Ukranian, Byelorussian and Russian governments continue to be engaged >in their Soviet legacy -- Absolute lack of concern for the environment, >the people, and their neighbours. You can follow this legacy on the >RFE/RL (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) web page and mailing list >at http://www.rferl.org. > >regards, > -skots >-- >Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com >MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv > (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") > ----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----

26 years, 4 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:58:54 -0500 "John B" <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> writes: >Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? > >I ordered our SMD-SCSI adaptec board there (back in 90).... everyone >was >laughing at me when I put the order through Supply and Services. Back then, they were a good supplier. We used to get our ACB-4000's, 4070's, and 4525's from them. While I was living in San Jose a few years back, they started carrying mostly peecee stuff. I got boring to go there after that. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 04:30:26 -0500 Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> writes: >On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, B'ichela wrote: >>On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >> >>> as for myself, beer cans and antique outboard motors 1960 and >earlier. >>> >> I collect old Records and 8 track tapes I activly listen to >both >>formats. > > Ok, *now* I'm scared. ;) Be *very* scared. I do the same thing. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

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DG house numbered part xref/help with what *looks* like a mux...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Pat of this is prompted by a part (not *yet* suspect) I ran >across on a Nova 800 CPU1 board. From the prints it looks >like it's a a quad 2-input mux like a 74158, but the >pinouts are completely different and it's got wired-or >outputs suggesting OC outputs. Select and enable are on >9 and 7 (I may have those switched); 1 = i0a, 2 = i0b, >3 = ya, 4 = yb, 5 = i1b, 6= i1a, 10 = i2a, 11 = i2b, >12 = yc, 13 = yd, 15 = i3a, 14 = i3b > >Of course, that's just the way it's drawn. It could be somewhat >different :-) We're pretty sure you're talking about the 8234, and this is what's said about it in the Nova 800 Technical Manual: Truth table: S0 S1 FN 0 0 !B 1 0 !A 0 1 !B 1 1 1 Pinout: 1 A0 2 B0 3 F0 4 F1 5 B1 6 A1 7 S1 8 Gnd 9 S0 10 A2 11 B2 12 F2 13 F3 14 B3 15 A3 16 Vcc Does this make any sense? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for washing-machine-sized disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a couple of years of when it was developed? The reason these gargantuan drives are no longer around is because it was costly and laborious to maintain them in useable condition, with a routine failure frequency of more than one per week. If you're ever able to recover your data, you can probably store all the software that ever existed for that system on a single 8mm cartridge which will fit in your shirt pocket. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 12:26 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >> Something I've been wondering about. These boards look to have been used >> to convert ESDI to SCSI for stuff like Apollo's and Sun's. Could they be >> used to convert a SCSI drive to work on an ESDI controller? > > >This is actually a subset of a much more interesting general problem, using >modern storage devices as substitutes for older ones. This is a serious issue >for systems that use 'washing machine' disc drives (pre-SMDs, like Trident or >Memorex interfaces) where, unless you were REALLY careful, you'd end up with >a big pile of crashed heads and aluminum dust the first time you spun up a >disc drive that has been sitting in some warehouse for 20+ years. > >I have several dozen 80 and 300 meg disc packs that I've had for over 10 years >now that I'm scared to put into a drive, for fear of losing everything that's >on them... > >The past month or so, I started calling all the old 'data recovery' places, and >even THEY threw out the equipment to fly a head over these old packs.. >

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

> Something I've been wondering about. These boards look to have been used > to convert ESDI to SCSI for stuff like Apollo's and Sun's. Could they be > used to convert a SCSI drive to work on an ESDI controller? This is actually a subset of a much more interesting general problem, using modern storage devices as substitutes for older ones. This is a serious issue for systems that use 'washing machine' disc drives (pre-SMDs, like Trident or Memorex interfaces) where, unless you were REALLY careful, you'd end up with a big pile of crashed heads and aluminum dust the first time you spun up a disc drive that has been sitting in some warehouse for 20+ years. I have several dozen 80 and 300 meg disc packs that I've had for over 10 years now that I'm scared to put into a drive, for fear of losing everything that's on them... The past month or so, I started calling all the old 'data recovery' places, and even THEY threw out the equipment to fly a head over these old packs..

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I collect bridge boards. I can't help it-- I have a fetish for bridge boards. All makes: Emulex, DTC, Xebec, WD, Adaptec, etc. All kinds of configurations: Cpu<->MFM (ala wd-1000), SASI<->MFM, SCSI<->ESDI, SASI<->QIC30, all kinds. The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. 8" drives are interesting to me too, but I haven't seen too many in this neck of the woods. On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:48:11 -0800 Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> writes: >I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the >screwiest >ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started >collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of >various >styles now. > > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

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I have a tashiba 5100

by jdtoys＠progressivetel.com

I need a boot disk for an old laptop computer? Allen Mason

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

The databook's not the problem. I've got a couple of those. It's the fact that I'm looking at a one-of, and would prefer not to generate a whole code set if someone already has done work they' be willing to share. Since I have a plurality of these chips on hand, and since they'll drive the cable directly, requiring very few parts to complete the job, I'd like to use this device for the current task as a prelude to using it in the future. I've never had to write drivers for the thing myself, so I haven't any archived code I can go back to study. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:57 AM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? >At 00:03 27-11-1999 -0700, you wrote: > >>Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI >>controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff >>would be good, too. > > I'm pretty sure I have the databook that covered the 33C93. Would you like >me to run off some copies of the datasheets? > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our >own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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DG house numbered part xref/help with what *looks* like a mux...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I was wondering if anyone has a DG house number to generic >part cross reference somewhere (if not I suppose I'll start one). Actually, yes, there is such a reference. It's a few hundred pages, and has pinouts for many "custom" DG chips. My copy is out on permanent loan, but if you get me the house number on the chip I'll have the current holder look it up for you. >Pat of this is prompted by a part (not *yet* suspect) I ran >across on a Nova 800 CPU1 board. From the prints it looks >like it's a a quad 2-input mux like a 74158, but the >pinouts are completely different and it's got wired-or >outputs suggesting OC outputs. Select and enable are on >9 and 7 (I may have those switched); 1 = i0a, 2 = i0b, >3 = ya, 4 = yb, 5 = i1b, 6= i1a, 10 = i2a, 11 = i2b, >12 = yc, 13 = yd, 15 = i3a, 14 = i3b > >Of course, that's just the way it's drawn. It could be somewhat >different :-) > >Does this part sound familiar to anyone? Um, what *is* the DG house number on this chip? If you had a time machine you could go back 20 years and buy a bunch of rejected versions of this chip, complete with DG house number, from Poly-Paks, I bet :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff would be good, too. Any source code will be eagerly looked at. thanx Dick -----Original Message----- From: B'ichela <mdalene(a)home.ctol.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 11:39 PM Subject: Re: do you still need XT parts? >On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > >> [...] >> >> > I will summarise the pieces I am looking for below in detail: >> >> [...] >> >> > 1 Cassette cable for the IBM-PC computer >> >> I believe this is the same cable as is used with most models of TRS-80 >> (1/3/4/CoCo/M100/etc). So you could use one of those (which I assume are >> fairly easy to find) if you can't get the official IBM cable (did it exist?) >> >> -tony >> > Having both a Model 102 and a Tandy Coco 1,2 and 3 I have two of >those cassette cables you mentioned. now I only need to save some money to >buy a working cassette recorder. > Reguarding this. If I could find the basica.com file for the Xt on >a pcdos disk. does this wrapper/patcher allow the support of the cassette >unit in addittion to the disks or only the disks? If by default basica.com >only patched the rom basic to use disks. how do you port files from >cassette tape to disk? > > A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the >potential to be a dandy. > -- Anonymnous -- >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > B'ichela > >

26 years, 4 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? I ordered our SMD-SCSI adaptec board there (back in 90).... everyone was laughing at me when I put the order through Supply and Services. PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com <rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:35 AM Subject: PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE >Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives on a pallet, with the >backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch and one other have been >broken. > >Wierd Stuff is in Sunnyvale, CA (650 area code) > >I am not connected with Wierd Stuff warehouse in any way, I just buy other old "Weird stuff" >there. > >ron. > >

26 years, 4 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives on a pallet, with the backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch and one other have been broken. Wierd Stuff is in Sunnyvale, CA (650 area code) I am not connected with Wierd Stuff warehouse in any way, I just buy other old "Weird stuff" there. ron.

26 years, 4 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

On 11/27/99 08:58:54 you wrote: > >Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? > >I ordered our SMD-SCSI adaptec board there (back in 90).... everyone was >laughing at me when I put the order through Supply and Services. > > > >PDP-8 and other rare mini computers > >http://www.pdp8.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com <rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:35 AM >Subject: PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE > yup still there, but now they have moved to the other side of 101, back in Moffat Park. > >>Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives on a >pallet, with the >>backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch and one >other have been >>broken. >> >>Wierd Stuff is in Sunnyvale, CA (650 area code) >> >>I am not connected with Wierd Stuff warehouse in any way, I just buy other >old "Weird stuff" >>there. >> >>ron. >> >> > >

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:57:44 -0800 Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> writes: >"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support >the 'IDENT' command (among other things) >" > >or disconnect/reconnect > >sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a >SCSI Common Command Set board. But that's what's screwy-- The adaptec docs claim theat the 4525 *is* CCS compliant. MS-DOS seems to agree. BUt not UNIX. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

1
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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:55:44 -0800 Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> writes: >"DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I >have several)" > >I have docs on most of the SCSI OMTI/DTC/SMS boards. I would be >interested in info on the larger DTC 14xx series boards, esp the >ones that SMS used in the QBus boxes that weren't compatible with >DEC disc drivers. The ones I have are all 510's (I think), 5.25" formfactor. Can't get any info on these (a couple aren't even marked with the model number!). One has a row of blinkenlights (510B). Would be good to get info on these. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

1
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LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 1:16 AM Subject: Re: LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update > > >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >> >> I got the 8I finally to lead a tape properly.. First a quick memory tester: >> >> I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks can >> test devices without trying to get a paper tape up (will do TTY, and maybe >> basic INST test, and some more core tests) >> > >Thank you, John. That's just the sort of thing I can use right now. My >PDP-8 assembler skills are _very_ rusty and its helpful to see working stuff >that fits on one page to get my mind back in the right frame. I think it's >been 15 years since I wrote anything from scratch. > Your welcome. I think they will help a lot of people out as *most./all* of the 8 has to be running to get MAINDECs fed in.I will have the programs up on the page by Monday morning. I am having to restore PDP-8s *really* fast so I have to be able to find problems quickly. The most important useful <1 page programs I have had to write (over the past day) are: memory test memory test with parity option memory - inhibit driver test (very small) - scope needed memory -X/Y test (very small) - used to find X/Y driver problems with scope. tty software loopback tty continuous output generator (character selected on SR) tty device selection test (scope needed.. checks flags and W103s) high speed paper tape continuous reader high speed paper tape 1/0 test high speed punch test (select character to be punched on SR) high speed paper tape copier (less than 20 bytes or it's free! ;-) ) If you can think of any others that would be needed please tell me as I want to get them all done and tested. >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com >

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Heres a question for anyone reguarding bridge adaptors. is there >a Scsi 2 to Floppy bridge board around? I would like to find one that can >be used with an XT or 486 system I have here with a scsi host adaptor. Sure, lots of workstations shipped from the late 80's onwards used SCSI floppy drives, generally a generic 3.5" floppy disk with 34-pin interface through a bridge board. Specifically, look for DEC RX23 (1.4MB) and RX24 (2.8MB) floppy drives with attached SCSI bridge board. They're all over the surplus market. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by classiccmp＠mrynet.com

> Slashdot has a link to an MSNBC story about the Russians restarting reactor > #3 at the Chernobyl plant in the Ukraine. They need the power but can't > afford a new reactor. > > Sounds like a fun place to work, eh? ^_^ Yobanoye sovetskoe naslesdtvo. The Ukranian, Byelorussian and Russian governments continue to be engaged in their Soviet legacy -- Absolute lack of concern for the environment, the people, and their neighbours. You can follow this legacy on the RFE/RL (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) web page and mailing list at http://www.rferl.org. regards, -skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----

26 years, 4 months

1
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ACB4070 ... (was Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, first of all the 4070's not an MFM bridge adapter at all, but rather an RLL type. Before we proceed, though, I'd like to ask how the floppy fits in. The ACB4070 doesn't support floppy disks. LINUX doesn't care about the parity, IIRC. It's just the SCSI channel controller that has to be set up. It can either check or ignore parity, your choice, generally. In the case of the 2825, you need to type control-A at the appropriate moment during boot, and it will send you to the controller's BIOS for controller-specific functions. Where the trouble begins is in that modern SCSI drives know their characteristics, but the 4070 doesn't know what kind of drive it's got until it reads it. If it can't read it, it can't ask it for that data. The drive doesn't know either, until the 4070's formatted it. The controller's firmware formatter doesn't know how to TELL the drive/controller what's out there either, so you have to write your own formatter. That's not terribly difficult once you know the bridge controller and host adapter are talking. Unfortunately, I doubt the 4070 is smart enough to help you much. I've never used a bridge controller of any sort with the PC though I can't see any reason it shouldn't work. Now, the ACB40xx series isn't entirely true SCSI, and I have no idea how to make the typical modern host adapter "see" it. If you have specific questions, perhaps I can help you, but it's a big manual and I don't see myself scanning or copying it anytime soon. Dick -----Original Message----- From: B'ichela <mdalene(a)home.ctol.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 11:57 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> My own interest in bridge controllers has been as tools. As you may have >> noticed, I have a number of hard/floppy controller bridges, but only a few >> different types. My goal is to be able to get hardware running in a hurry >> and bridge controllers are only helpful if you don't have to write new >> driver software for each application. >> >> I guess you might say I tend to collect things that are "nearly" ready to >> use, though they seldom see any use. > Heres a question for anyone reguarding bridge adaptors. is there >a Scsi 2 to Floppy bridge board around? I would like to find one that can >be used with an XT or 486 system I have here with a scsi host adaptor. I >have an Adaptec ACB-4070 or so, but it does not support parity. thus I >cannot for the life of me get it to work with my 486 under Linux, Nor do I >have any disks with any software for accessing an MFM HD that was attached >to it. its a Scsi to MFM hard drive bridge board, I also have a Scsi to >MFM bridge board made by Adaptive Data and Energy Systems, it >came out of a verisys multiuser 286 >system. I have had NO luck even finding documentations at ALL on this one. >the ACB-4070 (I might have the wrong numbers but the 70 part is right.) >sorta wants to talk to my Adaptec 2825VL host adaptor, but aparently it >lacks the Scsi device Identification string. thus when the host adaptor >boots, it cannot figure out what the ACB=4070 IS for! Can this be used on >a IBM compatible system? of so how? > > A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the >potential to be a dandy. > -- Anonymnous -- >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > B'ichela > >

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

So you've had trouble getting 8" drives, eh . . . I've had trouble getting RID of most of mine, though I'm about there now. I still have a few DSDD types which I may use myself in the course of reconstructing my old S-100 boxes. A goodly share of my life's work has been designing bridge controllers of various sorts. SCSI<=>MIL STD 1553 is one you won't see often. I had to cook that one up when it turned out that a fellow contractor had claimed the had a 1553-interfaced WORM drive, when they really didn't. They did the full pitch and everything, and to our customer (NASA). They produced documents, part numbers, etc, yet when I started pressing for details, they buckled. It turned out that all they had was an objective spec. Our customer had based a whole chain of requirements on that pitch and the associated claims and passed them to us as requirements. My own interest in bridge controllers has been as tools. As you may have noticed, I have a number of hard/floppy controller bridges, but only a few different types. My goal is to be able to get hardware running in a hurry and bridge controllers are only helpful if you don't have to write new driver software for each application. The WD100x series was really handy for this, since once I had built a processor<=>WD100x interface cable adapter, the only thing that changed was drive parameters and controller address block. One of these days I'll up a SASI adapter as well, probably based on the code and instruction set for the XEBEC controller, since their code is published. There's code for an S-100 adapter example published in the ADAPTEC ACB4000 bridge controller series manual, but I've never tried that one out because I've heard it's compatible with the ADAPTEC boards but neither SCSI nor SASI. I guess you might say I tend to collect things that are "nearly" ready to use, though they seldom see any use. Is that screwy? Dick -----Original Message----- From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >I collect bridge boards. >I can't help it-- I have a fetish for bridge boards. All makes: >Emulex, DTC, Xebec, WD, Adaptec, etc. All kinds of configurations: >Cpu<->MFM (ala wd-1000), SASI<->MFM, SCSI<->ESDI, SASI<->QIC30, >all kinds. > >The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs >are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the >Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge >ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. > >8" drives are interesting to me too, but I haven't seen too >many in this neck of the woods. > >On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:48:11 -0800 Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> >writes: >>I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the >>screwiest >>ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started >>collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of >>various >>styles now. >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

As I have experienced them, bridge controllers have two types of interfaces. One class is the HOST interface, often SCSI or SASI, and the other is the target interface, e.g. ST506 or SMD, etc. Though it's an easy mistake, it's like asking whether a SCSI channel could drive the Q-bus via an Emulex SCSI adapter. While the data can flow both directions, the relationship is still one of host and slave device. In short, NO! The SCSI <=> ESDI adapter won't let you interface a SCSI drive via an ESDI host interface, unless, of course, the ESDI is the host channel on the bridge adapter. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 7:48 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >>I collect bridge boards. >>I can't help it-- I have a fetish for bridge boards. All makes: >>Emulex, DTC, Xebec, WD, Adaptec, etc. All kinds of configurations: >>Cpu<->MFM (ala wd-1000), SASI<->MFM, SCSI<->ESDI, SASI<->QIC30, >>all kinds. >> >>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs >>are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the >>Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge >>ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. > >Something I've been wondering about. These boards look to have been used >to convert ESDI to SCSI for stuff like Apollo's and Sun's. Could they be >used to convert a SCSI drive to work on an ESDI controller? > >Feel free to ask if I'm out of my Freaking mind, I've never really taken >the time to look at them. Actually not sure I want to know, I think I gave >the box of such things away. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

CCS is one of the features which distiguishes SCSI from previous channel-based interfaces. There's no reason, though, to expect SASI bridge controllers to work with SCSI host interfaces. What disturbs me is that there are so many devices claiming to be SCSI-compatible when they clearly are not. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support >the 'IDENT' command (among other things) >" > >or disconnect/reconnect > >sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a >SCSI Common Command Set board.

26 years, 4 months

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EMC buys DG for $1.1B

by maisnon＠yahoo.com

--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: > This was announced a few weeks ago... > > <http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?99089.piemcdg2.htm> > > - John Am I on your mailing list? ===== Edward J Beaulieu maisnon(a)yahoo.com ICQ# 10888245 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support the 'IDENT' command (among other things) " or disconnect/reconnect sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a SCSI Common Command Set board.

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

"DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I have several)" I have docs on most of the SCSI OMTI/DTC/SMS boards. I would be interested in info on the larger DTC 14xx series boards, esp the ones that SMS used in the QBus boxes that weren't compatible with DEC disc drivers.

26 years, 4 months

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Need help, and I screwed up with my post

by edick＠idcomm.com

There are other part numbers which should teach us to be specific. There's a Motorola MC4024, which is a dual VCO not unlike the 74S124. The CD4024 is a 7-bit counter. There's a Motorola MC4044 which is a phase-detector/amplifier intended for use with their MC4024 as parts of a PLL. OTOH there's the TI TMS 4044 4kx1 SRAM, and the CD 4044 which (?) is a quad RS flipflop. With NEC numbers, the uPD414 won't do much good if you need a uPC414. You can probably imagine how I learned some of these details. The fact that I still remember them may shed some light as well. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post >The use of the entire part number might avoid confusion as well. Intel has >never made a CD4040, have they? > >Dick >-----Original Message----- >From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:28 PM >Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post > > >>On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >>>Yes, there are some numbers that were used for 2 or more totally >>>different chips. The other well-know confusing one is '4040' which is >>>either a CMOS 12 bit ripple counter (and is very common) or the second >>>Intel microprocessor (and is much rarer). >> >> Ahh, but the 4040 microprocessor is a 24-pin DIP...making it difficult to >>confuse them "in person"... >> >> -Dave McGuire >

26 years, 4 months

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Need help, and I screwed up with my post

by edick＠idcomm.com

The use of the entire part number might avoid confusion as well. Intel has never made a CD4040, have they? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:28 PM Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post >On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >>Yes, there are some numbers that were used for 2 or more totally >>different chips. The other well-know confusing one is '4040' which is >>either a CMOS 12 bit ripple counter (and is very common) or the second >>Intel microprocessor (and is much rarer). > > Ahh, but the 4040 microprocessor is a 24-pin DIP...making it difficult to >confuse them "in person"... > > -Dave McGuire

26 years, 4 months

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Need help, and I screwed up with my post

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

DOH! I should read all the posts next time... I was thinking Intel 8251's... <smack> However, if there is interest I could make a list of all my extra IC's... some are pretty dang old. I also have all the schematics, software, etc. for the Nova 1210. However, I need help with mine... I plugged it in after reassembly and it works, but I quickly turned the key to off and unplugged it cuz I noticed smoke coming from one of the capacitors on the back of the backplane.. I either plugged the power connectors in backwards or the supply is faulty, any ideas on how to diagnose this? I have the schematics but they show a totally different supply than what is in the machine... I got the Nova from a guy I met through Usenet. He said he had a microVAX 3100 and a VAXstation 3100 for me, if I would go get them, as well as a VMS gray wall. So I went up and got the stuff, and while I was loading it we started talking... he mentioned he still had his first computer, a Nova 1210, up in his attic... so we went up and dug it out and he said it wouldn't boot... opened it up and the PSU was loose inside, bending the boards. He then said i could have it if I wanted it, but he didn't think I'd want it because it didn't boot. So I carried it down and put in the car, with the board all out of it in antistat bags. It has 8K of core! Woohoo! Anyways, I happened to notice a bunch of manuals and some binders marked "Cray Research" in the trash area... I asked and he said they were mine if I wanted them... So I got an orange wall also.. as well as gems like VAX-11 FORTRAN and a complete UNICOS manual set for the Cray Y-MP/216. I also have VAX-11 C on 9 track. Unfortunately, he said I should have met him earlier, since he had already taken a microVAX I to the dump.. I did get three random Qbus boards though. Then he said his son down the street has some PDP-11's I can have.. so I need to go back.. I still haven't gotten the Teletype either... Also I have found a source of PDP-8 boards, don't know how many or what they are but I can get them Sunday... Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:15:34 -0500 CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com writes: >>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. > >I believe the Adaptec boards are what were bolted onto the Fujitsu >SMD drives I saw with a SCSI controller on them. I want to say that >I've seen some OMTI ones too, but those may have been SASI. Seems most of the OMTI bridges I've heard about were of the SASI Variety . . . >At one point I had a Pertec Formatted <- SCSI bridge, but it never >interacted well with the hardware I wanted to use it with so it got >traded away. Funny you mention this; many of these boards were made before the SCSI standard was 'solid'; hence some rather bizarre compatibility problems. Take the Emulex MD-23, for instance. The thing works with MS-DOS, no problems. Formats, works great. I can hang two or more drives from it, no sweat. FreeBSD: Pukes on boot-up. Ditto with OpenBSD. NetBSD: OK. What the @$%&*?!?! Similar story with the ACB-4525; formats and runs great with MS-DOS, no other OS can talk to it (at least the ones I've tried so far). I guess MS-DOS really doesn't care. The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support the 'IDENT' command (among other things) Jeff. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:07:54 -0800 Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> writes: >"The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs >are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the >Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge >ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. >" > >They exist.. I'll check if a friend of mine still has any. I have >a big pile of adapter docs. The only thing on line currently are for >the Xebec 1410 and 1401. Next time I'm at my storage locker, I'll see >if I can find the box that has all this stuff. I know that Tony asked >me for some old OMTI info a LONG time ago. Wow, I would *really* appreciate that! SO far, the only docs I have are for the ACB-4000, ACB-4525, and WD-1002-05' (thanks Richard!). DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I have several), and I'm not even going to talk about Emulex . . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 4 months

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EMC buys DG for $1.1B

by jfoust＠threedee.com

This was announced a few weeks ago... <http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?99089.piemcdg2.htm> - John

26 years, 4 months

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Interesting... PDP-8/m Mem problems

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, granted I don't know what I'm doing, but... I don't think there is anything wrong with the G104 board. I've been examining E24 and E28. The problem with E28 is it's not getting any input, and unless I'm mistaken E24 isn't either. The board is broken into 3 sections, and I've also checked the section next to it to get a better idea of what I should be seeing. Now for some very un-technical talk. I've been trying to find the lines that bring the bits from the Core board to the G104 board. As far as I can tell the bits are brought over on the back side of connectors 'F' and 'G'. There are 12 dual pin groups. The four that correspond to E24 and E28 aren't acting right. With the logic probe, when examining locataions, I only get a beep on the 8 that are acting right when it checks Memory locations: xxx0 - xxx3 (the ones effected by the bad 8251 on the G227 board). On the other 4 I always get a beep, no matter what location. So.... My conclusion is that the section on G104 that contains E24 and E28 isn't getting any bits, and may very well be a totally functional section. Having said that, I'm more than a little stumped as to how to attack the Core Board itself seeing as how it's sandwiched between two other baords. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. I had to buy on of those in 1990 as I recommended we take the SMD drives we had and port them to the MacIntosh servers. The interface worked well but had # of head limitations. > >I believe the Adaptec boards are what were bolted onto the Fujitsu >SMD drives I saw with a SCSI controller on them. I want to say that I've >seen some OMTI ones too, but those may have been SASI. > >At one point I had a Pertec Formatted <- SCSI bridge, but it never >interacted well with the hardware I wanted to use it with so it got >traded away. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 >

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. I believe the Adaptec boards are what were bolted onto the Fujitsu SMD drives I saw with a SCSI controller on them. I want to say that I've seen some OMTI ones too, but those may have been SASI. At one point I had a Pertec Formatted <- SCSI bridge, but it never interacted well with the hardware I wanted to use it with so it got traded away. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

"The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. " They exist.. I'll check if a friend of mine still has any. I have a big pile of adapter docs. The only thing on line currently are for the Xebec 1410 and 1401. Next time I'm at my storage locker, I'll see if I can find the box that has all this stuff. I know that Tony asked me for some old OMTI info a LONG time ago.

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > > I got the 8I finally to lead a tape properly.. First a quick memory tester: > > I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks can > test devices without trying to get a paper tape up (will do TTY, and maybe > basic INST test, and some more core tests) > Thank you, John. That's just the sort of thing I can use right now. My PDP-8 assembler skills are _very_ rusty and its helpful to see working stuff that fits on one page to get my mind back in the right frame. I think it's been 15 years since I wrote anything from scratch. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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4381 (was: Re: Grrrrrr)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> However is seems that a lot of people just want to have them operational > in their house, garage etc. If this cannot happen just let the machine got > to the shredder. This is exactly what I was told by local hobbyists I > approached to find help in saving an IBM 4381 mainframe. Well I replied to the address you set up, but it seemed to have problems, so perhaps my message didn't get through. I worked at IBM when the 4381 was current, and I'd like to see one saved. Not sure how much help I can be at this distance, since I mainly worked on PCs, S/34s and S/36s. I did try and grab any technical info I could find (which was very little since I worked in a marketing unit) and I will try and look things up if I can find anything... > Now I have found at my university floor space, power supply and internet > connection, but almost nobody seems interested in it. Only the LInux 370 > community gave some feedback. Well done. I'm all in favour. (Can I still remember how to use CMS...?) > Have I 'invested' on the wrong thing to save? 8-( Your decision. If you think it's worth saving, save it. I think it's worth saving, but I'm not sure there's much I can do to help (which makes it easier for me to declare my support, I suppose). I will e-mail you privately... I tried to save a 4341 around 10 years ago when I was still a student. There wasn't a hope, though... Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 5:09 PM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) >> >> >> >> Grrrrrr. >> > >> >I agree with you, Dave- it seems that recently there's been a surge of >> >"this or that computer is junk, it's only worth scrap for metals content. > >And I'll agree with you two... > >> >I'll enjoy scrapping this one" As I recall, indiscriminate bashing of any >> >particular computer is prohibited by this list's FAQ and Rules (and I'd >> >definitely say that calling a whole class of machines junk would be >> >bashing). > >Yep!... > >> > >> >When some of us go hunting in Dumpsters and scrapyards for measly old >> >micros, while working minis are being gleefully hauled to the shredder for >> >gold content, it kind of makes you wonder if it's all worth it. > >Some of us only see 1 or 2 interesting machines every year. And some of >us spend _months_ trying to track down an obscure option or manual for >our machines. And then we get people like this appearing... > You are not proactive ,.. sorry, that meant you actually have to financially commit to get more minis! >> > >> >Richard >> > >> >> First, I have never brought any kind of mini/micro to a gold reclaimer... If >> I get a system I really don't want I either take the boards out and have the >> rest crushed or ask one of my scrapper friends to cut it up. "I'll get what > >I am not sure what the difference is, since it means one less interesting >computer in the world. > > That's right,, easy to say save every mini when you don't do anything pro-active. Tell you what Tony.. I gave addresses for 30,000 pounds of systems today.. Who here is committed to flying into those sites , pay for them, remove them and then SHIP THEM! >[...] > >> We should resolve this issue... What is a collectable computer?? I think > >Simple, a collectable computer is one that somebody wants to collect. And >there are people here who want to collect just about everything that ever >computed... > I Agree. >> there are enough COCO-2s in collections to cover all of Toronto... should I >> still hoard and buy every unit I see? I realize this is a touchy issue so I > >Well, there's another issue here. > >If you buy up a machine and scrap it, then it's gone, period. > >If you don't then somebody else will buy it. Most likely they'll scrap >it, so it's still gone. But there's a small (but non-zero) chance that it >will be bought by somebody who actually wants to use it again. Large companies don't offer "pick and chose"... you really haven't called companies or factories have you to bid on a lot? > >I am _not_ at all convinced that you're helping to preserve computers. Again, the couch potato approach.. Much easier to think the minis will go to nice place when bought by scrappers. > >> I am looking for. For the most part I will get stuck dealing with a lot of >> VAX 11/78Xs, IBMs, some Supercomputers (like the Fujitsu) and a lot of >> PDP-11s. None of these computers are rare in any way and are quite abundant > >This is obviously a definition of 'rare' that I am not used to. FWIW, >none of those machines are at all common in my experience... > That's because you aren't doing anything to look for them. I can't remember the last time a Vax 11/780 fell out of the sky. >> among collectors. They are heavy, difficult to deal with and not profitable. > >Ah... You're doing this to make a profit. No wonder I can't understand it. > and God forbid I make some guy happy getting him a machine he has always wanted than telling him to wait for one to fall out of the sky and hit him. Oh, and let the machine he has always wanted go to the melter! Get a grip! http://www.pdp8.com/ john >-tony > >

26 years, 4 months

5
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NCD 15r + monitor 15b

by edick＠idcomm.com

NCD apparently just private-brand-labelled monitors from HITACHI among others. If you take the plastic off, you'll likely find a "real" manufacturer's name and model number. good luck! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 11:59 AM Subject: NCD 15r + monitor 15b > > Hi. I just got my hands on an NCD mono X term model 15r and >I'd like to know what are the sync frequencies of this monitor. > > Any information about this terminal is also extremely welcome! > > My idea: to hack an adapter to connect this monitor to a Xerox >Daybreak workstation. > > Cheers, > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 4 months

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FW: FS: Rainbow & decmate stuff

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Rainbow and DECMate goodies for those who care to contact the author of the attached post... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:15:02 -0600, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote: >>From: "SpaceKommander" <jboldway(a)cottagesoft.com> >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: FS: Rainbow & decmate stuff >>Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:15:02 -0600 >>Organization: Cottage Software Inc. & The Internet Connection >>Lines: 23 >>Message-ID: <943571262.98033(a)linux2.intcon.net> >>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)supernews.com >>X-Priority: 3 >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >>Cache-Post-Path: linux2.intcon.net!unknown(a)20.ict-max.intcon.net >>Path: news1.jps.net!news-west.eli.net!sdd.hp.com!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec.micro:109 >> >>Happy Turkey Day! >>I'm stuffed with turkey and my house is stuffed with computer stuff. >> >>Time to clean out! >>Memory board fully stuffed with 256K chips (768K totak on board) for >>Rainbow - $10 >>Rainbow CPM 86/80 V 2.0 documentation pack >>Rainbow System Kit and Installation Instructions >>Rainbow MS-DOS operating System V 2.11 - all three above documentation packs >>for $10 >>Rainbow WPS documentation - in black binder rather than brown/grey box with >>purple stripe above three have. $5 >>DECmate Word Processing - The Basics and Word Processing - Options. 2 >>documentation packs - $5 for the pair. >>Rainbow 100 in tower case with RD50, floppies, fully populated memory >>expansion card and video expansion card. Works perfectly. Comes with >>keyboard, monitor (sorry - B&W, not color) and cables. $50 for all. >>RD-50 - works fine. $5 >>Prices do not include shipping. >> >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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Fwd: VAX 11/730 System and 11/750 parts available

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I received the following message this morning, and due to the nature of VAX 11/730's I suggested he just send it to the list, but turns out he's not subscribed and asked if I could forward it. So here goes. As always, reply to the person below, not me. Zane >X-From_: allogagaw(a)megsinet.net Thu Nov 25 10:40:42 1999 >Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:16:39 -0600 >From: Mark Wilbur <allogagaw(a)megsinet.net> >Subject: VAX system on Classic Computers? >To: pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org, healyzh(a)aracnet.com, allisonp(a)world.std.com, > jim(a)calico.litterbox.com, jfoust(a)threedee.com, mikeu(a)conan.ids.net >MIME-version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 > >Bill, Zane, Allison, John, Mike and Jim > >I picked your names at random off of ><mailto:classiccmp@u.washington.edu>classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >in part of a VAX tread. > >I have a VAX 11/730 system and parts from a 11/750 taking up space >in my hobby shop. I have not played with them in several years. > >I also have a complete 11/44 system. > >Given any interest, I will try to itemize the options. > > >These are old enfough to be classics. (or maybe still boat anchors) >Think it is worth offering on the list? or should I scrap them? > >I need more room for my PDP-8 stuff :-) > >Mark Wilbur - St. Louis, Mo. > > >

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) >On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, John B wrote: >>The fujitsu is *HUGE*... I doubt anyone here would want to even try and run >>it. Its worth more in parts than whole. It's not old (6 maybe 7 years).. so >>what does one do?? The boards are nice, they look great.. Collectors are >>looking for this kind of stuff to hang on their walls... can't possibly run >>it. > > That's a big assumption. I know someone who would want it...and want to >*run* it...and has the heat/power/space capabilities to do so. I can't speak >for him of course, but I'll be he'd be interested right now. > > But was anyone ever given the chance? > You are talking right out of line here Dave. I haven't even picked up the units yet. When I do, I will offer it (as I have everything else)... Start reading the messages first Dave.. I am starting to understand why scrappers/factories won't take your calls and just melt the stuff. > Supercomputers rarely have high resale value because of the specificity of >their applications. That translates to "worthless", or relatively so when >compared with their often-multimillion-dollar new cost. The important thing to >note, however, is that WORTHless != USEless. Somewhere, there will be someone >who would peel off their fingernails to get their hands on such a machine. > That's right. EBay seems to bring people together that way.. WORTHLESS = NOT WORTH THE MONEY TO PAY FOR AND PICK UP. However, the Fujitsu might be worth some bucks as parts... and just might make 4 others *work* again. > -Dave McGuire >

26 years, 4 months

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Corroding Core memory

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/15/99 7:28:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, Henk.J.Stegeman(a)is.shell.com writes: > > I have some core memories stored in my garage which is relatively > dry, but I don't like the risk that they get corroded. > Put them in an antistatic bag with a small bag of silica gel inside the bag. Pack in a box with more silica gel. Silica gel is often reusable. Bake it in the oven to drive the moisture out. This will work well unless the boards actually get wet. Paxton

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

>>>>> "John" == John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> writes: John> That's life. I *really* find it hard to understand why John> scrapping a Vax 11/780 would break your heart when there are John> probably at least 100,000 left in mills out there... and no John> one wants them! It's not that hard. Just remember that attraction to something/somebody is not related to the whole number in the whole planet, but instead the number you have access to. I can give you millions of examples. I understand you treat Vaxes like garbage because you have handled so many of them. But I, for instance, have never touched an actual Vax, and therefore I feel a _different_ thing. Do you see? Different experiences mean different evaluations of reality. This is not hard to understand, is it? Take women! There are millions of Pamela-Anderson-alike in the planet, yet any (straight) man can't help from being attracted, can he? (with or without artificial boobs, I guess... 8-))))) Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 4 months

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Got a partial list of some of this load... (FUJITSU/VAX)

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Did I miss where this stuff is located, shipping info? Paxton

26 years, 4 months

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Archives and Computer Museum History Center

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Dag Spicer wrote (about the goals of the CM History Center): >>>4. Have your own sites linked to (or even archived) by the Center as a >>> way of bringing attention to your specific area of interest. >> >>You're ahead of me... what do you mean by archived? I would think that >>private sites would be kept up by the owner... >One of the concerns we have at the Center is that while there are superb >computer history sites out there run by individuals, there is no >institutional architecture for ensuring that they can continue past the >sponsor's lifetime or (much more likely) even five years. As you know, >some of these sites are simply superb and irreplaceable resources whose >loss would be gravely felt. If we take the geological timescale into >account (50 years for computers!), there is a real concern that such >wonderful resources might no longer be maintained after some finite amount >of time. I think you'll agree this is a pretty reasonable conclusion. Certainly, in this day and age, after an archive of information is *organized* getting it *distributed* isn't such a big deal. For instance, I've been archiving all PDP-11 (and also PDP-10) DECUS software/freeware that I've been able to get my hands on for most of this decade. The collection started out as hundreds of reels of 9-track tape, lots of 8" floppies, etc. Now the PDP-1n freeware collection, several Gigabytes in size, resides on a handful of CD-ROM's which the public can access through anonymous FTP, a web site, and they can also order CD-ROM copies through Amazon.com. Does it take a concerted effort to package a widely dispersed collection into such a tiny and potent package? Of course! None of this would have been possible without my networked PDP-11's here in the lab with tape and disk drives to read the old distribution media. But after it gets distilled, it's easily distributed. I can pop a CD volume into the mail for a few bucks, compared to the hundreds of pounds of original tapes and disks that the software was originally distributed on. And - as icing on the cake - real PDP-11's with attached CD-ROM readers can directly read the CD's, since the CD's are available with native PDP-11 filesystems on them. So, in many respects, things are much easier today than they were a decade ago. What *isn't* so easy is tracking down the "originals" and convincing their owners that it is a good thing for the contents of their archives to be copied to more modern media. Now, it may seem like a no-brainer to many folks here that this is the "obvious" thing to do, but let me tell you, getting my hands on stuff to put into the archive is like pulling teeth sometimes. Usually the tapes are stacked in the back of a warehouse or in someone's basement, in less than ideal storage conditions, and just getting their current owner(s) to drop them in a Fedex box and send them to me (on my Fedex account number, so they're not out any money) can be an ordeal. So, Dag, let me ask you this: what efforts are being made at the Computer Museum History Center to archive media in the collection? While my personal efforts have been concentrated on PDP-11's and PDP-10's, I'm certain the Center has a wider range (and older collections) of information that can be transcribed to modern media. Most of what you have is several decades old by now, I would guess, and you've got a coherent plan to check the condition of the media and copy them to more modern forms when possible, right? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Some Progress on -8/m Mem problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Zane, <I have loads of 8251's all pulled from various things, not desoldered all <socketed.. I have 1000+ ICs from all kinds of stuff... Is it the 8251 usart (28 pins) or signetics 8251 decimal decoder (14/16pins)? Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Some Progress on -8/m Mem problems

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Zane, I have loads of 8251's all pulled from various things, not desoldered all socketed.. I have 1000+ ICs from all kinds of stuff... Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 4 months

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Yet more on -8/m Mem problems

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, I've discovered something, but have no idea what it means. For all that goes, I am honestly not sure why I discovered it other than I was fooling around with the front panel while checking voltages on the memory module. I had the following results when depositing 7777 to the memory. Memory locations: xxx0 - xxx3 don't save anything Memory locations: xxx4 - xxx7 save 7760 This holds true to at least location 0200. On to other matters, I'm trying to do the resistance checks on pg. 4-16. I've run into a couple of problems. It says that each winding for one bit is ~3 ohms, however I show them at ~6 ohms. Also step 6 tells me to check the resistance of diodes FSA2501. Um, someone mind explaining how to do this exactly? Beware, I don't have the equipment to put the core plane on extenders and run cables to the G104 & G227 boards. Near as I can figure out they're a diode array from Fairchild Semiconductor, however thier web site doesn't have a data sheet. Shouldn't the resistance readings from one chip match that of another chip? Oh, I do have the scope at home now, but haven't tried anything yet, or checked into how horrible the probes are (I remember they're pretty pathetic). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 4 months

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Grrrrrr

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 5:10 PM Subject: Re: Grrrrrr >> Exactly, reality kicks in. You can't run a big IBM in your home... sorry, > >Care to explain why not? I am pretty sure there are collectors in the UK >with 308x IBM mainframes that they're either running or fully intend to >get running. > >> not going to happen. People only want the minis they can run easily at home >> and something that does not disrupt the house as it is. > WOW! Thats amazing.. Great! When I post it here then I should expect someone to buy the system right??????? >That's news to me... I want machines that are _difficult_ to run (the >easy ones are no challenge...). And disrupting the house is no real >problem either... > >> >> Most collectors want: > >If ever there had to be proof of the damage that these sort of >'collectors' are doing to the history of computing then this is it. > >> That's right,,, they are all wrong and you are *right*????? >> The first computer they ever touched (that's where I come in) >> An old transistor mini >> Maybe a PDP-8/11.... > >Fortunately, few of us here are 'most collectors'. People here do not >(necessarily) want the 'popular' machines. Many of us what the machines >we had never heard of... > Mee too. I have quite a colelction myself.. (and not the popular ones) >> >> Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. > >If ever I find out that you've scrapped certain machines, the known >number of which remaining can be counted on the fingers of one hand (in >unary!), then I will not be responsible for my actions. > HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH.. That's funny .. sit here and whine about the minis being crushed but you do *nothing* proactive to seek out and *save* those units... All wind, no action gets you ..............................<nothing> http://www.pdp8.com/ john >-tony > >

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 8:13 PM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) >Upon the date 06:11 PM 11/25/99 -0500, John B said something like: > >>>Some of us only see 1 or 2 interesting machines every year. And some of >>>us spend _months_ trying to track down an obscure option or manual for >>>our machines. And then we get people like this appearing... >>> >> >>You are not proactive ,.. sorry, that meant you actually have to financially >>commit to get more minis! > >So, all of us who want to be proactive and save interesting machines will >become high rollers first :-/ > no. just put out the money, time and space to house such units. We all know that is not cheap. Fortunatly, I am able to fill a void and make some $$ in the process. and I wasn't refering to you., I know you have done some trips. -------------------------------------------------------- now off that topic: I got the 8I finally to lead a tape properly.. First a quick memory tester: ; 22 = FIRST ADDRESS TO START WRITING PATTERN TO ; 23 = CURRENT ADDRESS BEING WRITTEN TO. START 10 7200 CLA ; CLEAR ACCUMULATOR 11 1022 TAD 22 12 3023 DCA 23 ; SET ADDRESS COUNTER MAIN 13 7064 LAS ; LOAD ACC WITH SR CONTENTS 14 3423 DCAI 23 ; STORE PATTERN IN MEMORY 15 1423 TADI 23 ; LOAD WRITTEN DATA. (SHOUDL CAUSE A PARITY ERROR HERE IS MEMORY BAD) 16 2023 ISZ 23 ; IF ADDRESS=0 , INC 23, SKIP NEXT INSTRUCTION TO START LOOP OVER 17 5013 JMP 13 ; GOTO MAIN 20 7200 CLA 21 5011 JMP 11 ; GOTO START (RESTART) 22 0024 ; FIRST ADDRESS TO START WRITING PATTERN TO. 23 0 ; TEMP VAR, CURRENT ADDRESS TO WRITE PATTEN TO. This routine will test all locations from 24->7777 Play with the SR and see if you can creat a pattern to cause the PDP-8 to crap out. IF it does you know which location the problem occured at by looking at the MA register. The 8I ran this well. I found out the problem was a bad solder joint on the paper tape reader causing too much gain on certain holes.. (thereby causing bad reads at high speed). I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks can test devices without trying to get a paper tape up (will do TTY, and maybe basic INST test, and some more core tests) http://www.pdp8.com/ john > --Chris >-- -- >

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Richard W. Schauer <rws(a)enteract.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 12:13 AM Subject: Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10??? > was: > >On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, John B wrote: >> >As for the systems, I will probably scrap the Vax6000 (for EBay souvenirs). >> > >> >I saw one of the Fujitsu boards last year.... nice... most of the chips had >> >heat sinks on them (ram board).. and they were huge.. Again too new and too >> >big to deal with.. I'll get what gold I can out of it. >> >> Grrrrrr. > >I agree with you, Dave- it seems that recently there's been a surge of >"this or that computer is junk, it's only worth scrap for metals content. >I'll enjoy scrapping this one" As I recall, indiscriminate bashing of any >particular computer is prohibited by this list's FAQ and Rules (and I'd >definitely say that calling a whole class of machines junk would be >bashing). > >When some of us go hunting in Dumpsters and scrapyards for measly old >micros, while working minis are being gleefully hauled to the shredder for >gold content, it kind of makes you wonder if it's all worth it. > >Richard > First, I have never brought any kind of mini/micro to a gold reclaimer... If I get a system I really don't want I either take the boards out and have the rest crushed or ask one of my scrapper friends to cut it up. "I'll get what gold I can out of it"... is an expression meaning I will try and get as many Ebay dollars out of the boards as I can to offset the purchase and shipping of the lot. We should resolve this issue... What is a collectable computer?? I think there are enough COCO-2s in collections to cover all of Toronto... should I still hoard and buy every unit I see? I realize this is a touchy issue so I will try to explain where I am coming from and I would appreciate opinions. I have taken a leave of absence for 1 year to restore and cycle through as many minis as I can for private collectors (kind of an *early retirement* if I get the right ones). I have quite a "wish list" and a "want list".. On average I usually have access to at least 40-50 minis/year. I usually send 40+ to the chopper. I can't possibly store so many units (especially when most collectors don't want them). I expect a few hundred over the next year >from auctions, scrappers, factories, and trade-ins.... I have gotten together with quite a few scrappers (through the ones I know) and other contacts to dig out as many possible sites that would have the kind of minis I am looking for. For the most part I will get stuck dealing with a lot of VAX 11/78Xs, IBMs, some Supercomputers (like the Fujitsu) and a lot of PDP-11s. None of these computers are rare in any way and are quite abundant among collectors. They are heavy, difficult to deal with and not profitable. The documentation and software are everywhere for these computers and *more* weight I have to deal with. I can't possibly keep every Vax, Fujitsu, IBM, PDP and most people in this group cannot deal with such large systems... So what do I do???? One idea is to pull the boards out and hope to dump them on EBay... [I am paying for this equipment]. That would help people fix their own minis if they needed the boards... There will be systems *worth* restoring (that's why I am doing this), IE: alot of PDPs 8s, transistor PDPs, and maybe some 18 bits,, I expect an IBM 360 along with at least one 1401... and a lot of spares , docs, and software. The fujitsu is *HUGE*... I doubt anyone here would want to even try and run it. Its worth more in parts than whole. It's not old (6 maybe 7 years).. so what does one do?? The boards are nice, they look great.. Collectors are looking for this kind of stuff to hang on their walls... can't possibly run it. and the Vax 6000. The last one didn't even fetch $300 on EBay. There are thousands of Vaxes and I am sure millions of RA81/90s (whatever) out there. No one wants the stuff [well, maybe the boards] I agree with you on one thing.. I will refrain from calling certain minis/micros *junk*.. but put yourself in my shoes.. If you had cabinets of minis/mainframes coming in every month and *very* limited time/space what would you do with them ? ... [and of course consider the fact that you *paid* for them]. I will at least mention them here for parts before I have them shredded. Basically, any mini I get that does not *like* paper tape will probably get chopped up for parts. P.S. I asked about 2 months ago if anyone wanted a free RH11 boards. I got no responses - none. What should I do with them? Upset my wife more by keeping them or toss them in the dump? Suggestions? >

26 years, 4 months

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Oscilloscopes

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Oscilloscopes > > >--- Jeffrey l Kaneko <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> wrote: >> My sentiments exactly. >> I should *never* have sold my 465B. It was in pristine condition, >> and I sorely miss it today. I would seriously look for a *nice* >> 465. They're old, but there were alot of them made, and they're >> pretty reliable (well, I never had any trouble with mine, anyway). > >That ain't old... I've got a Tek 317 that I bought at auction about six >or seven years ago... it has an A.E.C. inventory sticker from 1968. The >sign at the auction cashier's window said, "All equipment is guaranteed >to be non-radioactive". Some reassurance. :-) I just won two Tek RM503s on EBay, one for my 8/S and one for the 8I. Talk about old.... I have never worked on scopes this old... Hope I can get them up and running to play spacewars soon. These were the original scopes used in the LAB-8.. and now I find out (contrary to quite a few things in the PDP-8 FAQ) they were also used as the oscilloscope on the 34D interface. How is your 8/e restoration going? john > >It didn't come with probes, but a friend of mine at the local university >found me a package of vintage probes, unopened, in a drawer. Probably been >there since they were new. > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping. >

26 years, 4 months

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Grrrrrr

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Enrico Badella <enrico.badella(a)softstar.it> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 4:06 AM Subject: Re: Grrrrrr > > >Mike Ford wrote: >> >> >> Grrrrrr. >> > >> >I agree with you, Dave- it seems that recently there's been a surge of >> >"this or that computer is junk, it's only worth scrap for metals content. >> >I'll enjoy scrapping this one" As I recall, indiscriminate bashing of any >> >> This is an iceberg kind of thing, 90%+ of old computers are going to the >> shredders, or just as bad sitting in some deteriorating environment. 90% of >> the rest is getting dismantled for parts, and only a tiny number are being >> kept "operational". > >Agree. > >However is seems that a lot of people just want to have them operational >in their house, garage etc. If this cannot happen just let the machine got >to the shredder. This is exactly what I was told by local hobbyists I >approached to find help in saving an IBM 4381 mainframe. > Exactly, reality kicks in. You can't run a big IBM in your home... sorry, not going to happen. People only want the minis they can run easily at home and something that does not disrupt the house as it is. Most collectors want: The first computer they ever touched (that's where I come in) An old transistor mini Maybe a PDP-8/11.... Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. >Now I have found at my university floor space, power supply and internet >connection, but almost nobody seems interested in it. Only the LInux 370 >community gave some feedback. > >Have I 'invested' on the wrong thing to save? 8-( > >e. > >======================================================================== >Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella(a)softstar.it >Soft*Star srl eb(a)vax.cnuce.cnr.it >InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 >Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 >10143 Torino, Italy > > Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, > manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals >========================================================================== >

26 years, 4 months

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Got a partial list of some of this load... (FUJITSU/VAX)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

?? notes I am not sure if I got the number right. RA81 - 3 of them RA81 - 3 more RA82 - 6 TA81?? (tape) TU81/82? HSC50AA Vax 6000/610 63AMDYE SA600 HSC50 Omnigraphic Recorder (still more to come on this unit) (partial fujitsu - this is the smaller, older of the two): F6470A M770 N770 F1751E F6425GB4 F170051- (something) F6425GA?4 F675AC Does anyone know any of these Fujitsu part numbers? The fujitsu has: 2 - 2000LPM printers, 2 "coke machine" type 50 minimum capacity tape cartridge robots [thats what they described it as], and two CPUs. More peripherals... haven't gotten that far yet with their purchasing officer... I have found out they will be scrapping two VAX8000 series units (huge) along with the 750s, some micro vaxes [many] (oops, can't say that --- undesirables) and the other stuff in the next few months.

26 years, 4 months

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Your message to ClassicCmp

by aek＠spies.com

"very shortly (as in the next week or two) there will be a public archive available with TOPS-10 distribution tape images, sources, build kits, etc. Total quantity of stuff (at the moment) is in the few hundred megabyte range, and will likely grow a bit by announcement time. Keep your ears peeled to alt.sys.pdp10 for details. There will be about 200-300 Megabytes of PDP-10 (TOPS-10 and TOPS-20) DECUS freeware, too." This is WONDERFUL news! Thanks, Tim!

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<a pile of other minis I have not seen yet. I do know I will be getting a <pile of ASR-33s... no idea why they held onto them. Good question but people occasionally want one. <If you have items you are seriously looking for please-mail me. I won't be <dragging everything to the shop. I would but, I don't want the price to go up 1000%. :) Seriously I'd like to find a 4k(or larger) core set for an 8E and an RX8 controller. However if there were a wish... I'd love to see a skip full of NT boxen crushed. I'd pay to see that. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Your message to ClassicCmp

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>"The PDP-6 in question is coming back to the History >Center by December 20 (this year) as part of a.donation by Compaq >which is clearing out a little-known warehouse TCM used for deep storage." > >Do you happen to know if any documentation or software was stored there? >There was just a discussion on alt.sys.pdp10 that it appears that all of >DEC's PDP-10 software archives disappeared, and I'm hoping they MAY have >ended up there, maybe other software as well (people were unable to locate >18 bit software, for example). I don't know about the History Center's software archives - I would imagine they've got loads of tapes and packs, but no equipment nor time to use them - but very shortly (as in the next week or two) there will be a public archive available with TOPS-10 distribution tape images, sources, build kits, etc. Total quantity of stuff (at the moment) is in the few hundred megabyte range, and will likely grow a bit by announcement time. Keep your ears peeled to alt.sys.pdp10 for details. There will be about 200-300 Megabytes of PDP-10 (TOPS-10 and TOPS-20) DECUS freeware, too. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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NCD 15r + monitor 15b

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

Hi. I just got my hands on an NCD mono X term model 15r and I'd like to know what are the sync frequencies of this monitor. Any information about this terminal is also extremely welcome! My idea: to hack an adapter to connect this monitor to a Xerox Daybreak workstation. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 4 months

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RH11

by pat＠transarc.ibm.com

John B. mentioning having some RH11 board reminded me ... Does anyone have an RH11 *manual* they'd be willing to part with? I asked a similar question on the info-pdp11 list recently, but got no leads... Thanks, --Pat.

26 years, 4 months

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Grrrrrr

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 11:52 AM Subject: Re: Grrrrrr >"Most collectors want: > >The first computer they ever touched (that's where I come in) >An old transistor mini >Maybe a PDP-8/11.... > > Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. >" > >Fine, but if you scrap a machine, try to at least get the documentation and >software to someone that can use it. Many times these items are separatated >from the computers as they're being disposed of. These items are much smaller >and are also practical to ship, and are vital to restoring the other machines >around the world that haven't been parted out. > I am actually doing that for you Al. I have you wish list and will send documentation to any system on your wish list.. Most companies trash the software and docs as normally scrappers don't want it or the company feels it can't legally hand it out. (I feel another Boo!, Hiss coming but I can't keep every manual either): I don't throw out any documentation I get with systems even if I do scrap them...but my dad likes to heat his home with wood and so I give him surplus manuals to start his woodstove/fireplace.

26 years, 4 months

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UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Stephen Jensen

by jensens＠mcs.net

Hope I'm doing this right. I need to unsubscribe from this mailing list. It generates too much traffic for me and I can't keep up.

26 years, 4 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by aek＠spies.com

"We've got quite a few sets of eyes and ears sensitive to looking for minis on this list, not just micros --including folks with close connections to scrappers-- and there are relatively few alerts raised as to 780 or 750 (and other big iron mini) availabilities vs. your contention many types are common. " A friend of mine in Milwaukee has an 11/780 he'd like to sell, if anyone near there wants it. It will be a non-trivial de install, though (it's in a basement). If someone is serious about this, I can forward his phone number / email adr.

26 years, 4 months

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Your message to ClassicCmp

by aek＠spies.com

"The PDP-6 in question is coming back to the History Center by December 20 (this year) as part of a.donation by Compaq which is clearing out a little-known warehouse TCM used for deep storage." Do you happen to know if any documentation or software was stored there? There was just a discussion on alt.sys.pdp10 that it appears that all of DEC's PDP-10 software archives disappeared, and I'm hoping they MAY have ended up there, maybe other software as well (people were unable to locate 18 bit software, for example).

26 years, 4 months

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