Anyone know anything about the above captioned computer??? It's
a beast! Big HEAVY! upright tower system 27" tall X 27" deep with a HUGE
power transformer in the bottom of the case. Model D171.
Main components are DEC Backplane marked "H9275A", processor card
"M8192" bunch of other non-DEC cards in there as well--SIGMA, EMULEX,
couple of unmarked ones. Powers up, HD blinks, has a built in tape
drive.
Did a search for Marquette and they are now
GE/Marquette--medical/EKG,EEG monitoring stuff.
Is this some sort of rebadged DEC system or a totally custom
ie: worthless medical gadget....looks promising.
Thanks, Craig
On Apr 17, 12:15, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:35:56 -0400 (EDT) allisonp(a)world.std.com writes:
> > > Has anybody ever ripped the Low Level formatter
> > > from the XXDP+ diskpack and put the needed components
> > > onto a floppy (of some sort)?
[...]
> > It's doable. You need to create a bootable XXDP disk and copy the
> > required formatter to it. not much more than that required.
>
> I figured as much; I was just probing to see if anyone had already
> done it.
Yes, DEC did: ZY003P3 Field Service Tests disks for the microPDP-11 series,
contains 4 Field Service Test RX50's (CZXDnB0 where n = 1...4) and a CZUFB1
disk which has the monitor, menu, help text, UPD2 and assorted tests
including ZRQA?? and ZRQC??
I've also got a pair of rather later XXDP 2 disks from 11/53 systems, which
have XXDPXM, XXDPSM, DRSXM, DRSSM, DIR, assorted drivers, UPDAT, XTECO,
DXCL, SETUP, HELP. One disk also has ZRQA??..ZRQF?? and the other has
VDHA??..VDHE??, VMSA??, ZTKA?? and ZTKB??
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
>Frankly, the reason I'm exploring this is because with the 8-bit mode, I
>don't have to buffer the data at all beyond the on-board data-in and data
>out buffers at the bus interface. The board I'm using to host the thing
is
handy but that feature is not there.
>From what I read in the standard, this is a normally selectable operating
>mode for the interface. What's more, only the smallest of drives would be
>appropriate for CP/M on the S-100, since CP/M supports, at most, 120 MB,
Actually it supports 16 drives of 8mb each for CP/M 2.2 and 32Mb for CP/M3.
P2dos, Novados, SuprBDOS all support files to 32mb and drives to 1gb.
BUT, the logical drive to physical drive map does not have to be static.
For example you could only have drives C/D/E/F as mapped to 8mb logical
drives. Drive C: could be partition 1 and a fixed mapping. Drives D/E/F
could be mapped to floating partitions anywhere on a very large drive.
I supported two 71mb MFM drives this way back in 87 under CP/M2.2.
>handle that much. Back when I used CP/M every day, I owned the largest
hard
>disk system on CP/M that I'd ever seen, at 44MB.
Obviously you've never seen many of the systems I ran or have aquired.
Likely
the 44mb limit was based on inavailability of really large drives. Even my
AmproLB has a 45mb SCSI on it and I plan to bump that up to a 160mb. The
current system I'm building I'm planning will have IDE 250mb drive. Space
is
handy as I can have a 8mb partition for pascal and another for C or
whatever.
>notebook drives should cost about $5-10, which is acceptable. Clearly,
There are plenty for under 25$. Though you have to decide on 9.5mm, 12mm
or 17mm thick models.
Allison
Hello all, I've got an interface to an RRD40 in my VAX called a KRQ50 and
it has two "ports". One connects to the RRD40 with a 15 pin or so cable,
the other, I don't know. Then in the box of stuff that went with this is a
terminator (green LED on the back) with the same D-shell connector as the
RRD40. So I'm trying to figure out whether or not they went together. I've
never seen such a terminator before.
--Chuck
>> > I'm contemplating attempting to do this myself,
>> > but in case it's been done already, I'd just as
>> > soon as not re-invent the wheel.
>>
>> It's doable. You need to create a bootable XXDP disk and copy the
>> required formatter to it. not much more than that required.
>I figured as much; I was just probing to see if anyone had already
>done it.
Sure. Do you just want the RQDX3 utilities on it?
Up until a year or two ago, DEC would sell you a subset of XXDP on RX50's
that included the things commonly used on Micro-PDP's. They don't have
any RX50's left in inventory, though.
>BTW-- Are RL02's a maintainance nightmare? Do the advantages
>of these drives outweigh the problems (not to mention their *size*,
>or are they simply not worth it?
RL02's are, IMHO, the most reliable of all the 14" removable cartridge
drives. The embedded servo design means that absolute positioning
alignment does't have to be done. (Though the relative alignment of the
two heads does matter somewhat.) The head flies pretty high over the platter,
so crashes are rare. I know one site that ran a bunch of RL01's (mechanically
very similar) continuously for twenty years before upgrading to RL02's, and
the only problems they had were the spindle bearings wearing out.
And they aren't very big or heavy either. They're less than 70 lbs
each, so they're easy to move around. The big Massbus drives, those
are a different story.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Guys:
Has anybody ever ripped the Low Level formatter
>from the XXDP+ diskpack and put the needed components
onto a floppy (of some sort)?
I'm contemplating attempting to do this myself,
but in case it's been done already, I'd just as
soon as not re-invent the wheel.
I'll need the formatter used with the RQDX3.
BTW-- Anybody have the docs for the DSD-880? Info
on this would be most appreciated.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Speaking of PS/2 memory, can anyone shed any light on the
following MCA memory card:
Made by Quadram. There are various stickers:
[908503] [02790487][REV 1B] [K.B.]
[9080R1] [9081R1] [9079R2]
The [908503] sticker obscures an etch number
17-9085-[908503]R1
There are four 30pin SIMM slots furthest from the back plate,
each containing a 1Mbyte SIMM.
I've searched the web but can't find any info. There are three
3pin jumpers (marked J1, J2, J3) and one toggle switch on
the back plate. I've assumed that the jumpers set the
starting address/size and that the toggle switches it off and
on but can't see any extra memory (even after trying various
combinations) in my PS/2 model 80.
Doug.
>As it happens, the committee did standardize on the one mode bit that makes
>the interface an 8-bitter. How extensively that was adhered to remains to
>be seen, I guess.
Well wishful thinking had me check it out using several 85-130mb drives
(quantum, Seagate, maxtor, WD) and none seem to do that. After all
having that would make the interface a no brainer and save a simple silo
for splitting read and writes. However, it was wishful thinking.
As to doing it on S100, been there done that. the interface logic needed
to do the bus does 3/4s of the work and it only needs a bit more the
close the loop. CPLD/FPGA/PAL could cover most of that but for S100
I like real TTL (244/241/373) like parts and NO cmos where the bis
interface occurs.
Allison
>> I personally like the CMOS much better since it drives harder, and since it
>> pulls and pushes with the same impedance, unlike TTL which sinks 16 and
>> sources 1.6 mA. I've tried replacing all the bus interface buffers on my
>> old S-100 cards with AC logic. In some cases I used HC or AHCT (SAMSUNG)
>I've seen latchup on busses that ring negative using HC and HCT parts.
>I'd like the better drive but they would randomly flame on me due to the
>bus ringing. Obviously loading the bus with terminators would solve this
>but it's still something that worried me and made for a less robust card
>for handling and ESD.
Is the cheapness of IDE drives worth all the heartache of the cable
length and funny line driver limitations? The cable length limitations
are so short that you've almost got to put the hard drive in the same
box as the CPU - this isn't good if you want expandable or flexible systems!
But if "cheap" is the main requirement, I suppose it's OK.
Maybe I'm too used to dealing with systems where the hard drive might
be 60 or 100 feet away from the CPU... (differential SCSI and SMD.)
Tim.
> Is this some sort of rebadged DEC system or a totally custom
>ie: worthless medical gadget....looks promising.
It's a system, with DEC CPU, non-DEC controllers/peripherals and a non-DEC
backplane/chassis/power supply.
Not too unusual - IMHO it's *more* unusual to find an entirely-DEC
system.
Note that it is possible to assemble a brand-new PDP-11 "compatible"
using no DEC parts at all. For instance, I know of one desktop system
using a Mentec M11 CPU (totally custom implementation, not even a J11),
Andromeda SCDC SCSI host adapter, Logical Company async multiplexer, and
a Seagate SCSI hard drive in an Andromeda desktop Q-bus enclosure.
Tim.
My favorite words from a flea market vendor is "I don't know anything
about this stuff... " Just picked up two Timex Sinclairs, Timex 2068
CPU, printer, cassette interface all brand new in the original box's.
$10 for the whole shabang. I wonder if I should send in the
warranties...
Brian.
>Those "special" drives are not what I meant to ask about. I want to know
>more about the 8-bit mode described in the ATA Interface Specification as
>published in 1994 and 1996. This is apparently a "standard" feature.
It was a proposed feature. Not used that I know of and later deleted from
the spec. I've never found a drive that it works on, wish it did though.
Allison
On Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:02:01 -0600, Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
>
wrote:
<<I'm not sure how you're going to write to the superdisk in a fashion that
the
GS can read. You *might* be able to format the superdisk on your PC
as an ISO9660 or a MAC CD, and then put the disk in the superdrive on the
GS before you power it up, so it thinks it has a CDROM mounted. Might.
CDROM support is a little dicy on GSOS, and whether the file system driver
will deal with a non-standard disk size I have no idea. That's what I'd
try first though.>>
My thought was to use TransMac98 on my PC, format the disk to 1.4mb and con
nect the SuperDrive to my SE30. That way, I can move compressed disk archive
s to the network for archival. The underlying activity here is to make archi
val copies of my existing 15-yr old diskettes and put images on my network.
If I can only get a Superdrive for the gs, I can move the programs over by 8
00k disks and then copy them to 1.4m.
<<If you have a CDROM burner, I'd be far more inclined to try burning a CD>>
I do have one of these, and I'll probably burn a CD with the disk images on
it. Right now, I need to get the programs off of the diskettes onto a safe m
edia.
Rich
[ Rich Cini
[ ClubWin!/CW1
[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[ Collector of "classic" computers
[ <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/>
<================ reply separator =================>
>No, I haven't heard of any 8-bit IDE models since the very ancient Seagate
>ST___X drives. But I gotta ask, why even bother looking for them, when
I happen to have a few WD and ST series ones but they are native ide-8
and no bit change for 16bit. 8bit IDE is true oddball and I really doubt
there
was much in the way of adpotion.
doing 8bit conversion takes a bit of logic and the direct 8bit IDE looks
appealing until you try to use them... They didn't standardize! I gave up
on them.
Allison
4th class book rate is okay.
Paul R. Santa-Maria
P.O. Box 924
Monroe MI 48161-0924
----------
> From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com
> To: CLASSICCMP(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: More freebie classic documentation
> Date: Saturday, April 15, 2000 03:57 PM
>
> The following are available for shipping cost from Bethesda MD 20817:
>
> 1. "New Word" paperback, describing the CP/M screen-oriented editor.
>
> First come, first served. Be sure to supply your mailing address
> and which items you want, and I'll let you know the shipping costs.
> Generally any two or three items above can be sent to the lower 48
> via USPS priority mail for $3.20.
>
> Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
Someone told me they think (just from looking at it) that it weighs 1700 pounds. Do you think that's possible? I'm trying to find out how much shipping is going to cost before I ship it. If you ever find out how much it weighs, I would like to know.
Thanks,
Owen
-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, April 15, 2000 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: System/38 Question
I know the MIS books have it in the general info but I don't have the books handy at present. It's heavy regardless.
Owen Robertson wrote:
Does anyone know the approximate weight of an IBM System/38? I trying to ship one, and I need to know how much it weighs. Thanks,Owen
Today I found an Androbot Topo and he's standing right here next to me.
Now what?
I am now accepting any pointers, tidbits, or otherwise worthy information
about this cute little addition to our family.
I already searched the usual channels.
Thanks to all
Francois
Hello, all:
I just found out that one of my external 400k floppy drives is shot.
Anyone got a spare that they can, well, spare? It doesn't have to be
external, as I can re-use the existing case.
Thanks.
Rich
[ Rich Cini
[ ClubWin!/CW1
[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[ Collector of "classic" computers
[ <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/>
<================ reply separator =================>
An IBM System/23 in the Southern Illinois area in need of a home before it
ends up heading for the landfill... Replies to the original sender please.
-jim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:44:51 -0500
>From: Taylor <lstaylor(a)siu.edu>
>Subject: IBM System/23
>
>Have a friend who just acquired an IBM system/23. He thought it might
>be something on which he could set up some of today's educational
>software etc., for his kids (he's not computer literate yet) Anyway to
>make a long story short, this stuff is sitting in the back of his truck
>awaiting a trip to the local junkyard and I just found your museum
>yesterday while I was searching for info on this old system. All
>hardware appears to be present, though not put together as your picture
>shows. There are two boxes of about 1982 vintage manuals (some still in
>shrink wrap) It appears there is an old version of basic available.
>There are at least 2 eight? inch floppy disks with it. Don't know if
>this thing was ever set up and used or not. It's a bit grimy from
>sitting in a garage somewhere and the manuals smell musty, so the
>"storage" conditions weren't the best.
>
>If you think there are any possibilties for this thing, please let me
>know. Located in southern Illinois in Carbondale (where the
>University is) about 90 miles SE of St Louis MO. and 75 mile NW of
>Paducah KY. if that helps
>
>email is lstaylor(a)siu.edu Thanks for your time... Linda Taylor.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
I have 2 excess 4033-001 print servers with manual and power supply to
find a new home for. Will trade for more common PC stuff that I can use
or ethernet items. Will also consider offers for cash. Not too heavy,
about 3 lbs each so shippingmost anywhere shoudln't be a biggie. No
cable though, you need to supply either a DB9 to RJ45 media filter or
the normal DB9 to IBM data connector whip to use them, dependant on your
needs.
Start with a Macintosh modem cable that has the round connector on one end
and a DB25 connector on the other. There is also a Macintosh program
called MacLink which has a Mac to PC cable that you may be able to use.
My cable is the nifty cable that comes with CrossWorks. The PC end has
both DB25 and DB9 connectors, while the Apple II end has DB25 (Super Serial
Card), small round (IIgs, IIc+), and large round (IIc, Laser 128)
connectors. I have used this cable between a PC and a Mac LC II as well.
Paul R. Santa-Maria
Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
paulrsm(a)ameritech.net
----------
> From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com>
> To: ClassCompList <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Mac/gs<==> PC
> Date: Saturday, April 15, 2000 09:08 PM
>
> I'm looking to transfer some files from my PC to my //gs. I could do it
wit
> h a null-modem cable (for which I need the 8-pin DIN to DE9 pinout). I
could
> also do it with a Superdrive connected to the //gs. Anyone have any
experien
> ce with an external Superdrive? What do I need on the gs side? I have a
ROM0
> 3 gs with System 6.0.8.
> I have info on the 10-105 dual beam Heathkit scope, some of the transistor
>info might be relevant.
I have that one. Not similar enough. What I'm chasing is a huge asymetry
in the amp and so far no bad transistors. Back when I had the cousin to
this
one and had a similar problem. I also need to see the layout so I can find
why one half the amp is not reacting to it's mirror.
Allison
I'm looking for schematic on a heath 10D-203-31, 5mhz trigged sweep scope.
I'm chasing a vertical amp problem and schematics would help identify the
heath house numbered transistors.
Allison
Hello, all:
I'm looking to transfer some files from my PC to my //gs. I could do it wit
h a null-modem cable (for which I need the 8-pin DIN to DE9 pinout). I could
also do it with a Superdrive connected to the //gs. Anyone have any experien
ce with an external Superdrive? What do I need on the gs side? I have a ROM0
3 gs with System 6.0.8.
Rich
[ Rich Cini
[ ClubWin!/CW1
[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[ Collector of "classic" computers
[ <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/>
<================ reply separator =================>
-----Original Message-----
From: Sue & Francois <fauradon(a)mn.mediaone.net>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, April 15, 2000 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: I'm a proud daddy
<snip>
>Big picture at:
>ftp://fauradon:hsd123@people.mn.mediaone.net/Pictures/topobust1.jpg (158K)
>and at:
>ftp://fauradon:hsd123@people.mn.mediaone.net/Pictures/topofull1.jpg (96K)
>
>Any ways I was hoppping for some technical insight. what kind of
controller
>are used for it, any cool application, any personal experience.
>Thanks
>Francois
And I can see from the second picture that you have (very sensibly)
assigned it to guard your most precious possession: the wine cellar.
Cheers,
Mark.
> Subject: Re: www.recycledgoods.com (was: RE: Tektronix 4107
>
> From: Peter Pachla <peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: www.recycledgoods.com (was: RE: Tektronix 4107
>
>
> Hi Charles,
>
> >....I got into the computer hobby/business when 5 1/4" disk drives
> >were more commonly used than 8". I remember a box of 10 disks
> >costing about $50....
>
> Quite, I remember the first box of 10 Nashua 5.25" floppies which I bought
> in 1983 set me back ?30 (about $45?).
Yep, I was lucky enough to be able to use the disk drives (I thnk there
were total of three units) in our school iun 1981/2, back then the
drives (Commodore 4040s), cost about $1200 ea. Most everyone else were
at the mercy of sometimes flakey tape decks.
> >....There was one computer store in town that would sell you a
> >single disk for $5
The school did that for a while after the Apples came in.
Ever see the movie Sixteen Candles, the nerds in the movie make a bet
for a box of disks and quote a $50 price, that was for 5.25" disks...
Now things are going back up for 5.25" (DS/DD) disks as the sources are
starting to dry up, I load up on boxes of them when the dollarish stores
get shipments of them.
Hint, you can spot a 5.25" diskette because it usually has a hub ring,
this was partly so apple Disk ][ drives can grip it, there was at time
hub ring kits for that purpose as well as the keep the old drives from
bending the diskette's hole. HD disks generally do not.
--
01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363
300-2400 bps
Commodore 8-bit page at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html
SiliCon 6 Gaming/Gathering-04/01/2000 - http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/silicon.html
01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011
Nope, SCSI to the rescue. I use MCS 700 future domain in my 70
bought used from C.R. when I was in US visiting my friend.
Actually a cheaper way... Parallel port adaptor. It's how I run Win3.1 on
that
one without loading the disk that on it (currently only dos on it).
Should work in your 50z but needs 386 level to work according
to DB Young and shove in more ram while you are at it.
True. The problem with that machine is common to most 286s, there's
enough perfomance to make use of it but, not enough ram, disk and it's
not 386.
So in the end I can easily run dos/lanman/IP with windows 3.1 but, only
dos apps will fit in the available ram.
I have an INboard386 PC in a leading edge. Same problem more or
less. I do have a 386/16 with that and 1meg of ram but 4-5mb is needed
to run windows apps of any value. I plan to try minix in that beast as it
would leave enough uesful ram for a IP stack.
Allison
>I have a PDP-10 emulator in progress. It doesn't do anything useful yet
>and is loaded with bugs. I haven't made any progress on it since last
>year around October. You can get it from http://bony.umtec.com
>Ken Harrenstien and Stu Grossman hasve both had KL emulators for a long
>time, but neither of them is released.
>Bob Supnik was working on one but I don't know what ever happened to it.
>That's all of the ones I can think of right now... I think mine's the
>only one that's ever been released, but I'm not sure.
There's mine... I haven't had the time to do anything with it
recently, but I have a fair number of instructions working. PI
doesn't work yet, and the only devices which sortof work are
the CTY, CLK, PTR and PTP. I've got some -10 code which it
executes built into the program so I can test instruction
speed... about 500k eips (emulated instructions per second) on
a 6x86...
I'm basing mine on Bob Supnik's simulation control package, which is
really nice in itself.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
The following are available for shipping cost from Bethesda MD 20817:
1. "New Word" paperback, describing the CP/M screen-oriented editor.
2. "Spellguard" CP/M Spellchecker docs in original ISA 3-Ring binder.
3. VT55 Users' Manual (xerox copy)
4. IDS 440 Paper Tiger Owners' Manual (xerox copy)
5. Teletype 40 Owner's Manual (original booklet)
6. Tandon TM252 (10-Meg MFM hard drive) OEM operating and service
manual, original in Tandon binder.
7. Tandon TM501, TM502, TM503 (5.25" FH MFM hard drives) OEM
operating and service manual, original in Tandon binder.
8. PRIAM OEM Service manuals: 3450, 7050 8" Winchester Disk drives
9. PRIAM OEM Servie manuals: 14" Winchester Drives
10. PRIAM SMART and SMART-E interface product specification.
11. Seagate ST506 MicroWinchester OEM Manual, Preliminary, 1-Apr-1981.
First come, first served. Be sure to supply your mailing address
and which items you want, and I'll let you know the shipping costs.
Generally any two or three items above can be sent to the lower 48
via USPS priority mail for $3.20.
Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
Computerworld's front page article is on computer junk, ie, the problems
companies are having with disposing of 'old' computers. Just thought
i would mention it in case someone wanted to read the on-line version:
http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/000410D386
-Lawrence LeMay
I've just obtained an RML 480Z. This machine was commonly in use in
schools in the UK during the 80s, as an alternative to BBCs or Spectrums
under a government initiative to keep our computer industry alive.
Unfortunately, there are no cables or documentation with it. It has a
large array of DIN sockets at the back for cassette, two monitor
connections, and two serial ports. Does anyone have the pinouts for
these sockets?
I'll email Research Machines as well to see if I can obtain any
documentation, but the only reference to 480Z on their web site is on
the Y2K page, where it says that they don't have a real-time clock.
>> 4. I'm need a mouse and monitor cable for a VaxStation 3100.
>
>Well, I run mine with a VT420 for a head. Shoot, most of my Alpha's don't
>even have Monitors attached to them, and NONE of the VAXen do.
>
> Zane
Zane, thanks for the info and suggestions. You talked me into leaving the
uVax2 alone with its Ultrix... And I'm not sure about the HSC-70, but it
came in as part of the 11/44 when it was scrapped.
So, does anyone have any extra Dec Modified Modular Jacks (MMJ's) for the
console port or the odd SCSI cables for the VaxStation 3100 or know where
they can be found?
Regards
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
Does anyone have the November 1976 issue of Interface Age magazine? There
is an article by Steve Wozniak publishing 6502 floating point routines. I
have the August 1976 Dr. Dobb's Journal with the same or similar
information. I want a copy of the Interface Age article so I can compare
the two.
>>> As my internal network progresses this box has value as I have a SMC
10bt
>>> NIC for it. I figure OS/2 warp V3 or Win3.1 would be a good os for it.
>>> Being 286 there are few unix based OSs with a networking that run well
>>>>> on it.
>>the only version of OS2 that will work on the mod50 is 1.3. any OS2
version
>>with built in windows support requires 386 or higher. you can put in
various
I checked, V3 wants 386 or higher.... ok, I have a box for that.
I do have win 3.0 and 3.1 with 286 support in hand those I have lanman
and windows networking support.
FYI: the NT4 Server disks have client drivers and networking support for
DOS, WIN3.x, OS/2 and w9x. Lanman and TCP/ip.
>>memory cards to goto max supported mem of 16meg. plus, the hard drive has
>>bus attachment with only 160meg size being the biggest i've seen.
Disk is not problem as I have a 120 mb drive, enough for this use.
>I'm not sure, but I suspect that getting any kind of networking for
>OS/2 V1.3 is going to be difficult. IIRC, it doesn't come with networking
No plan to run OS/2-v1.3 don't have it either.
>Warp 3 was the last version I ran, and I don't remember it having any
>networking software either.
It does if you have the bonus pak. I also have the NT4 clients kit for OS/2
V3.
I'd still like to bump it up to 2MB if possible.
Allison
There's no problem... just give it to me..
Will J
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
In a message dated 4/14/00 8:09:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk writes:
> Hi,
>
> > I'm going to guess that it probably doesn't want just simple
> >72-pin SIMMs. I believe you need True Parity 72-pin SIMMs for
> >this beasty.
>
> Actually, I forgot about the SIMMs in my PS/2 9595....I wonder if those
> would work (I've not had much success trying them in non-PS/2 machines)?
>
> BTW I wasn't aware that there were 72-pin SIMMs that didn't provide true
> parity. I'd always assumed this was a cost cutting phenomenon limited to
> 30-pin SIMMs? :-(
9595 uses either parity or ECC simms. ps2 memory has presence detect features
as well so the PS2 can query the type of memory installed.
DB Young ICQ: 29427634
view the computers of yesteryear at
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
--You can lead a whore to Vassar, but you can't make her think--
Time to clear the shelves. All available for the cost of shipping -
pick and choose what you can use, but hurry, because it's first-come
first-served!
1. VT55 Users' Manual (xerox copy) + IDS 440 Paper Tiger Owners' Manual (copy)
2. Teletype Model 40 User's Guide (original)
3. Kennedy Model 9100 Digital Tape Transport Operation and Maintenance
Manual (original)
4. ITT XTRA Personal Computer repair manual (xerox copy)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Hi Pete,
I can't help with your question, but you may want to post it on
comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware. There are a lot of extremely knowledgeable (if
not fanatical) MCA enthusiasts there (notably Peter Wendt, Louis Ohland,
and Bruce Lane) and the signal to noise ratio is high. The group helped me
a lot in reviving a PS/2 Model 8595 server last year.
Regards,
Mark "Now if only I could find some 1 by 4 static column ZIP DRAMs" Gregory
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Pachla <peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk>
To: Classic Computer <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Thursday, April 13, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: CPU upgrades, pt. II
>Anyone come across an "XTEND MICROPRODUCTS" processor upgrade card for MCA
>machines?
>
>I've found one inside my PS/2 Model 50, which I was previously unable to
>identify as the markings on the PCBs are hidden inside the "sandwich"
>IYKWIM.
>
>Anyway, it appears to replace the onboard '286(?) with a '486SLC (no real
>clues as to clock speed, but could be 25MHz) and has a socket next to the
>processor which I'm assuming is for a math co-processor?
>
>Would I be correct in assuming that the system will not start up if the
>72-pin SIMM sockets on the upgrade board are empty....I've never gotten
very
>far with this machine as I don't have any 72-pin SIMMs to try in it?
>
>
> TTFN - Pete.
>
>--
>Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
>Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp
DEC)
>
>peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | www.wintermute.org.uk
>--
>
>
>
Anyone come across an "XTEND MICROPRODUCTS" processor upgrade card for MCA
machines?
I've found one inside my PS/2 Model 50, which I was previously unable to
identify as the markings on the PCBs are hidden inside the "sandwich"
IYKWIM.
Anyway, it appears to replace the onboard '286(?) with a '486SLC (no real
clues as to clock speed, but could be 25MHz) and has a socket next to the
processor which I'm assuming is for a math co-processor?
Would I be correct in assuming that the system will not start up if the
72-pin SIMM sockets on the upgrade board are empty....I've never gotten very
far with this machine as I don't have any 72-pin SIMMs to try in it?
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | www.wintermute.org.uk
--
Hi all,
I knew that hanging aound you nuts wouldn't be good for my computer collecting dementia. ( reference http://users.leading.net/~dogas/COMPOSITE.jpg ) Until recently, I've kinda resisted adding Dec equipment due to storage concerns. Until recently...
So, here's my digital stuff...
http://users.leading.net/~dogas/classiccmp/digital/digital.htm
...that I can use some help with...
1. I've got an 11/05 missing a KD-11B processor board #1 (M7260)
2. I have no space currently for the 11/44 and MicroVax 3600 and will entertain any 'hosting' options
3. My MicroVax II is booting into Ultrix 4.5 and I'd rather learn VMS
4. I'm need a mouse and monitor cable for a VaxStation 3100.
5. One of my Heathkit H-27 floppies is broken and I also need an os for it.
Any suggentions for any of the above problems would be appreciated. In the meantime, back to the classiccmp archives.
Hey, I also found two Honeywell 316 minicomputers too, check out...
http://users.leading.net/~dogas/classiccmp/h316/h316.htm
Cheers.
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
Hi Sean,
> You might want to take a look at http://parisc.workstations.org....
Thanks for that, someone else over in the Apollo newsgroup suggested that
site too - and very interesting it is too.
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | www.wintermute.org.uk
--
First item,,
I've seen lots of 800/810s with lube on the leadscrew from the factory.
Two, carb cleaner is toxic and usually bad for most plastics.
My cut is pull the lead screw/stepper and properly clean it and lube
very lightly with good molly grease.
>that is available to you, then lubing it with a LIGHT coat of (one drop for
>every three drives) of WD40, then adding about 1/4 tsp of moly-disulfide,
WD40 is penetrant and evaporates very quicly leaving mostly nothing.
After your done cleaning any know good disk will suffice for alignment.
I've even eyeballed them in. the tracks are really quite wide!
Allison
Hi,
I know Kevan indicated recently that he was in the process of rebuilding
his archives, and I'm not sure of the current status of that, but in the
meantime I've put up all archives since March of 1997 (start of the list)
at http://www.retrobytes.org. I can't express how many times his archives
saved me and I just wanted to get that information back up for the public
as soon as possible.
I was a little shocked when I sent the U Washington Listproc server an
"index" command and found that they still had all of the list archives
available!
Another thing that amazed me was how *prolific* this list has been in the
past. One month (April 1999) was just shy of *3000* messages! I haven't
totaled everything, but I would easily guess that there's upwards of
50,000 messages for the last three years. What an unbelievable technical
resource! I think there was a comment about the volume of messages that
Tony Duell posts; if you have any doubt, look through any of the months by
Author to see just *how much* he contributes here.
One of the things I'm considering is making a CD-rom distribution of the
list archives available to list members; any interest? It would allow for
faster searching and accessability to the archives for someone working on
a classic system not in the immediate vicinity of an internettable
computer. I could make it available as an ISO image download by individual
request, or burn CD's here for the cost of media/shipping.
I still need to add the search capability, so I'm seriously looking for
someone with experience setting up Glimpse or something similar. Also, any
ideas for setting this up for a CD version would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Aaron
Special thanks to Hans Franke for supplying me with his saved archives,
before I knew about UWash's listproc archive...
The other day I was given a Sym model 1 in a custom case of black metal with wooden sides and a built in keyboard sold by Synertek. There small wooden door on top that lifts off to view the on board LED and KB. This system has been upgraded with extra memory and other features. He also gave all the documentation for it and some newsletters from an old Sym computer club that used to be at Honeywell. The board is dated 1978 with SN 3433. It will be a great addition to my collection and I hope to fire it up soon.
I have IP11 test programs on RX01 floppy, but where and how do I get the
manual for these tests? I live in Arnhem, The Netherlands
Thanks in advance,
Wim
My private e-mail seems not to be reaching you either... you
might be getting what you're paying for from your ISP. :)
Obclassiccmp: this concerns a computer rescue... it's OT.
Cheers
John
Hi,
FWIW, the best docs I've ever run across are the old Interdata/Perkin-Elmer
manuals for my 7/32's, 3203's, 3205, and 3210's... the 7/32 manuals even
include a complete listing of the microcode! All of the test program source
code is included in the test docs, and I have the source code for the OS
also.
Will J
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>When they say "do not lubricate ..." they're not lying!
If only the previous owners/techs had understood this!
> The grit and grime
>that finds its way into the leadscrew will act as lapping compound and
>abrade the lead screw, which in most of the newer lead-screw-driven
>mechanisms is plastic, and soon, you'll have a drive with too much backlash
>on the lead screw, which will result in positioning error, depending on the
>direction in which the lead screw was last moved.
I've got 14 Shugart 800's and 801's from this latest pile now undergoing
the DSD Hyperdiagnostics simultaneously (lots of head kerklunking!)
and I see no evidence of alignment problems on any of them. I'm strongly
of the opinion that 95% of alignment problems are created when folks go
in and fool with the alignment when there's nothing wrong in the first
place.
> I would probably feel
>comfortable cleaning out the gunk with a penetrating oil wuch as what you
>mentioned, but I would vigorously pursue the problem of getting the rest of
>the sticky residue out with a volatile solvent.
I think "Liquid Wrench" is both a penetrating oil and a mix of volatile
solvents. And in spraying it in I added my own oil to the lubricating
mess that shouldn't be there, but now at least I can turn the leadscrew and
run the drives through their paces.
>That, in turn, threatens to soften the plastic head-assembly, part of which
>is the "nut" for the lead screw, so don't get any of the benzene or methyl
>alcohol, or acetone, on the plastic parts, lest they soften and change their
>shape.
I appreciate that, I learned long ago to test chemicals against plastics when
a can of TV tuner I had dissolved the plastic shaft in an old TV...
>I'd suggest that you look at the service manual and consider whether this
>bothers you enough to warrant going through the painstaking process of
>disassembling and cleaning the head transports in order to get rid of the
>grease. If you're careful, you might find a way to brush out the threads,
>but they'll continue to accumulate dirt and grit so long as you have grease
>on the "nut" which is part of the head assembly.
Yes, I can do a halfway decent job with skewers and Q-tips to get the goo
out of the threads, but there certainly is some still left in the threads
on the head assembly/pre-load nut and that I can't get at without
removing the whole assembly and destroying the (currently fine) alignment.
Tim.
From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu>
>Does anyone know if a Shugart 800-2 8" floppy drive is DSDD or not? I have
>been getting different hints on various web pages.
Definatley single sided, though it can run single or double density. I'm
very certain as I have a few 800s and 801s. The twosided versions are the
851
and 855.
Allison
Sorry for the partially off-topic question, but I'm stumped.
I'd like to set up more of my systems in a home network environment, but I
don't really properly understand routing and am looking for some help.
My internet access is through a cable modem that acts as a DHCP server,
allocating up to three IP addresses to specifically-named systems. For
instance systems "foo1", "foo2" and "foo3" will get IP addresses from the
modem, while "foo4", "foo5" and "foo6" will not.
I thought about snagging a small PC with a couple of NICs and running
ShareTheNet or WinGate, but I recently picked up a used Alpha running NT
with a pair of NICs that I'd like to try out as a router. Right now, the
Alpha has one of the magic system names (foo1), so one of the network
adapters gets a DHCP-served IP address. I have the other adapter's IP
address defined as 192.168.0.101, with the mask as 255.255.255.0 and no
gateway defined.
I want to set the following systems up with static IP addresses:
192.168.0.105 SGI Indy
192.168.0.106 Symbolics Lisp Machine
192.168.0.107 NeXT Cube
192.168.0.108 Pentium II Laptop
192.168.0.109 Pentium Desktop
192.168.0.110 DEC Shark
192.168.0.111 iOpener
I'd like to set up these machines to use 192.168.0.102 as their gateway.
Seems to me that if I have the Alpha set up properly, I shouldn't need to do
any special route definitions on the other systems, right?
So, any suggestions on how I should set up the two NICs on the Alpha under
NT 4.0?
-- Tony
I'm having a problem with my 7900 I'm trying to get up and running that I
wanted to bounce off the folks here.
When you hit the load switch, after spinup the heads seek cylinder 0 and
rest there (and an interrupt is sent to the cpu). However, any command sent
to the drive via diagnostics causes the heads to slowly step out one
cylinder at a time to the innermost track. Then the cpu gets a "no command
flag" message which basically means the cpu never got acknowledgement back
>from the drive that the previous operation completed.
This makes me suspect the encoder mechanism. The drive uses an IR
emitter/detector through a glass reticule with sector markings on it. But if
the encoder was shot, wouldn't that make it hard for the drive to initially
seek cylinder 0 upon loading as it does correctly?
Just curious... more of a philosophical question than a need for
direction...
Thanks in advance!
Jay West
>
> Documentation is the first component tossed by the wayside
> when deadlines are approaching too quickly.
>
> - John
Actually, the first thing that gets tossed is the development "process".
As a Quality Assurance Engineer, this is an issue that I have to deal with
*every* single day. Frankly, I don't expect it to get any better. :-(
If anyone cares to continue the discussion, I'll be glad to elaborate...
Steve Robertson
<steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
Does anyone know if a Shugart 800-2 8" floppy drive is DSDD or not? I have
been getting different hints on various web pages.
Also, does anyone recall the URL to the web site with the Terak and Shugart
manuals that have been scanned in?
-Lawrence LeMay
--- Doug Salot <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, John Honniball wrote:
>
> > > But wait, there's more! I don't have pics yet, but for your salivating
> > > pleasure.... a 1966 DEC logic trainer...
>
> Hmm, could you be bribed to scan or copy the thing before it crumbles into
> oblivion? BTW, friend Eric has a later (1969) manual for a different DEC
> trainer:
> http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/computer_lab/
I have an 8"x11" workbook for a TTL-version of the DEC Logic trainer. I got
it as a kid, so many of the pages are scribbled up with my attempts to solve
the problems. I regret that now, but at the time, the book was free to me
and photocopies cost money. Maybe I'll scan it (in my copious spare time) and
edit out the additions with Photoshop. I would leave them in, but they are
very poorly hand-drawn. I was between 9 and 13 when I got the book. I did
not use a drawing template.
I never have seen any of DEC's logic trainers close up. 20 years ago, I wanted
one lots. I still want one, but realistically, what would I do with it?
-ethan
=====
Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to
vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com
The original webpage address is still going away. The
permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/
See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com
I've just made my uVAX II accessable and opened it up to check what's inside
and would like some comments on what it contains.
I want to connect it by network or serial cable
to my network or a PC. It Should have bootable software installed.
These are the things I know but if any of you would like to elaborate feel
welcome
BA123 Box containing:
CPU M7606 with propably 1 MB RAM
(Onboard RAM=disconnected if other RAM is
present ?)
RAM M7609 2x (Do they have standard amount)
they are fully stucked with chips
M7516 DEQLA or DEQNA ?
(Has cable going to the AUI connector at the back)
M7555 Diskcontroller ? dunno type of controller
but it connects to 2 * RD54a
(via an intermediate board and cables)
M7546 Tapecontroller for TK50
Unkown ID.
Board from Distributed Logic Corp with the following numbers:
SQ703A , 706AQ0748 and on the rom: 45u / 92782 Rev j.
It is connected to an EXABYTE 8200SX 8mm Tapedrive so
it shoul be a SCSI-controller. The guy i got the uVAX from told me
that I could change it to a SCSI-controller the could access SCSI-HD's
rather than a EXABYTE tapedrive. But I should change some prom's
on the card.
TK50 1x
EXABYTE 8200SX 1x
RD54A 2x
Furthermore I would like to know how to connect a PC-terminal-emulator to
the terminal
connector at the back. It is a 9 pin D-type connector and a Baudrate switch
next to it.
Does it have a standard PC-like pinout? Do I connect with null-modem
configuration ?
Sipke de Wal
I am looking for a source for the 600 Mbyte magneto optical
5 1/4" cartridges with 512 byte per sector. These will be
used in a SONY SMO S-501 5 1/4" magneto optical disk drive.
I have also found a SONY SMO S-501 drive, but I would like to
acquire a second one (or a compatible) as a backup.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
On April 13, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
> This was a rather neat little graphics terminal (CRT). You could draw all
> sorts of shapes on the screen by issuing commands such as "Square
> 0,0,10,10" or "Line 4,4,20,20", etc.
Cool!
> They were pretty exciting back in 1984 or so (when I first saw one), but
> probably long since outdone by VGA/SVGA graphics ...
...but since VGA/SVGA graphics are usually attached to PeeCees, I'd
take the 4107 any day. ;)
-Dave McGuire
Happy with 960 MFLOPS on an SGI Max Impact
Unhappy with PCs
...and finally getting over this damned cold.
From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" <rutledge(a)cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2000 at 10:38:12PM -0500, Eros, Anthony wrote:
> > I'd like to set up more of my systems in a home network environment, but I
> > don't really properly understand routing and am looking for some help.
> > [...]
> > So, any suggestions on how I should set up the two NICs on the Alpha under
> > NT 4.0?
>
> May be possible with NT but this is screaming for Linux... what you need
> is IP masquerading, which will let all the machines hide behind one IP
> address, that of the gateway machine. [...]
Or a suitable cable modem/router. I have DSL service using a Cisco
675, routing, with a single IP address. It can do DHCP, but I don't use
it. I set static NAT entries for the popular ports to pass through to
my AlphaStation (running VMS), which acts as the (only) server.
Everyone else on the home network has a static (internal-only) IP
address (10.0.0.*) and gets client access to the network using the Cisco
box's dynamic NAT, so I can do Web browsing from my Mac Plus, if I wish.
What's your box, and what can it do?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-699-9818 (voice, home)
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 763-781-0308 (voice, work)
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 (+1) 763-781-0309 (facsimile, work)
sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)
Any list members near Kent, UK? The fellow who wrote the attached
message has some nice Fujitsus available.
Please reply directly to him if interested.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:22:35 +0000, in comp.sys.dec you wrote:
>>Hello.
>>I have three pairs of SMD drives available. they are Fujitsu
>>M2344K (690MB) and each pair is fitted into a 19" rackmount
>>tray 3U high. I have all of the slidemounts and frontplates
>>and also some cables too. all of the drives spin-up O.K. and
>>become ready, and until a few days ago they were fitted into
>>a Sequent Minicomputer. The system was last used a month ago,
>>and has now been removed from service. the system dates from
>>1990 and has had minimal use for the past five years. so the
>>drives should be good for a few years yet. I'm open to offers
>>on these drives, as I haven't got a clue what they're worth.
>>Be warned though, they are big and heavy, and I'm in North
>>Kent U.K. and they'll need to be collected, although, if
>>you're local (within a couple of hundred miles) I may be able
>>to deliver.
>>
>>please e-mail or fax if you're interested. All The Best.
>>--
>>Tim Bluck. TB565 http://www.planet-tharg.demon.co.uk
>>'Phone.01322-409955 Fax. 01322-410111 Dartford. Kent.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com
Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com
"...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object,
event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
Here's another computer up for sell. Good Luck John
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Johnsen <pjj(a)sgi.com>
To: <jrkeys(a)concentric.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 11:11 AM
Subject: Sony microcomputer
> Hello,
>
> Saw the write-up in the Pioneer Press about
> your collection. I have a circa 1982 Sony
> SMC-70 CP/M machine I'd like to part with and
> I was wondering if you might be interested in
> buying it.
>
> No manuals but it does boot from ROM and runs
> Basic just fine.
>
> Peter
>
>
> --
> Peter Johnsen Tel 651-683-5462
> Applications Engineer FAX 651-683-7482
> SGI pjj(a)sgi.com
> 655F Lone Oak Drive
> Eagan, MN 55121 USA
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
Hi,
I want to start scanning some of the transputer books and manuals that I
have. A lot if not all are out-of-print. If I scan them and put them on
the net, do I have to worry about copyright laws, etc. Would I get into any
trouble?? What is the current policy on this?? I know several of you guys
scanned several books/documentation/manuals etc for various machines. Any
help in this would be appreciated. Oh, what about old software too.
Thanks.
Ram
While not exactly on topic for this list, it does have some relavance I
think. I just got done talking with a friend about the lack of
documentation in this industry. I mentioned the arguments I thought for it:
the ``our competition will steal our ideas'' or ``our hardware/software is
so bad we don't want anyone to know about it.''
My friend had another reason: companies are afraid to release
documentation because most of it is inaccurate, incomplete, confusing, or
just doesn't exist within the company. Or their products use third party
vendor parts that themselves, are not documented or require thick layers of
NDAs to even see (``I work here and I was told to get a copy of our business
procedures.'' ``Are you a manager?'' ``No. I'm an engineer.'' ``Then I'm
sorry, but you are not allowed to see our business procedures.'' ``But I
work here!'' ``I'm sorry, but they're proprietary, and with proper
management approval, you can't have them.'' ``But I was told I have to
follow them!'' ``Yes, you do.'' ``But what are they?'' ``I'm sorry, but
that's proprietary information.'')
My friend even went on to relate a story that happened within his company:
FRIEND: Yes, I'd like to use our XYZ chip.
COW-ORKER: I'm sorry, but the engineer responsible for the XYZ chip
died last year and no one knows how it works or even how to
make it anymore.
FRIEND: There was no documentation?
COW-ORKER: Hahahahahahaha! You haven't worked here that long, have
you?
-spc (We're doomed! We're doomed I say!)
On Apr 12, 12:45, Pat Barron wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, Roger Ivie wrote:
> >
> > One document that I'm fairly certain is not covered by the blanket
permission
> > is a copy of the MSCP specification (!) that I have tucked away in a
drawer
> > somewhere. Is DEC still making MSCP hardware? Everything I've used
> > recently has been SCSI.
> >
>
> This is from John Wilson's FTP site, at
> ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/README:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> >From the January 1985 Software Documentation Products Directory
(EJ-26361-78),
> first page:
>
> 3. RIGHT TO COPY
>
> Beginning January 1, 1985, Digital customers are given a right to
copy, at
> no charge, any Digital Archival Software Documentation Publication
> (excluding restricted or third party owned) that we no longer offer
for
> sale. However, the copyright is retained as the exclusive property of
> Digital Equipment Corporation.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm pretty sure the MSCP spec would have fallen under "restricted" ...
I'm not at all sure it is. My copy is "MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual
AA-L619A-TK Version 1.2 A part of UDA50 Programmer's Doc. Kit QP-905-GZ",
and it has no restrictions indicated, apart from the usual copyright notice
(1982). On the other hand, Sections 6.1, 6.2, 6.6, and 6.10 are listed in
the table of contents as "This section deliberately omitted" :-)
I think the Doc Kit was just two parts. Anyone know for sure? The other
part I have is "Storage Systems Diadnostics and Utility Protocol
AA-L620A-TK Version 1.2 A part of UDA50 Programmer's Doc. Kit QP-905-GZ".
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
For the heck of it, I've tried to design an electro-mechanical binary
adder that can automatically do the carry of the one that arises in 1 +
1 = 10. Of course, you reply, "George Stibitz's already did that in
1937 as you see here..."
http://www.toronto-montessori.on.ca/bsutherland/electricity/stibitz.html
But hey: this is retrocomputing, after all, and I'm not trying to
duplicate Stibitz--my aim is to come up with an electro-mechanical
binary adder architecture that's even simpler than his 2 switches, 2
bulbs, 2 batteries, and 2 relays version.
I think I've done it using 3 switches, 4 bulbs, and 1 battery. Yes,
still eight components but because it lacks the relays, I think it's
definitely simpler and therefore a kind of retro-breakthrough. And yes,
mine does carry the one for 1 + 1 = 10. Feel free to try building this
(or better it if you can with even fewer components).
But I do have a stupid question for everyone that exposes the holes in
my education: if my adder can successfully do all of the below
calculations but no more
0 + 0 = 0
0 + 1 = 1
0 + 10 = 10
0 + 11 = 11
1 + 0 = 1
1 + 1 = 10
1 + 10 = 11
10 + 0 = 10
10 + 1 = 11
11 + 0 = 11
have I constructed a 1-bit binary adder or a 2-bit binary adder?
Thanks,
S.F. Hall
Forgive me for asking, but would someone please reply OFFLINE
to me with an answer to this question --
what is this Dallas battery replacement that a bunch of notes
were about?
I somehow missed (did not read) the start of it, and just to
educate my mind (put it at rest), I would like to know what you
are in fact talking about. Why should I know about this?
Thank you.
Cheers. Kevin
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College
Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325
e-mail: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson(a)augustana.edu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent
the administration of Augustana College.
This is clearly off-topic compared to 10-year+ old computers,
so reply off-line if so inclined. (An observation -- since
this list moved to its new site, the topics of discussion, plus
the volume, has clearly taken a turn -- much for off-topic
notes, such as my own, plus much more opinionated notes. A
trend I've observed on other lists that moved their location.
I wonder why that is so....)
My few opinions include:
While I was never a VMS or other DEC programmer, and hence never
saw the "orange" or "gray" walls of documentation, I was for a
time a Sun/Unix programmer. So I did see Sun's "green and white"
wall of SunOS documentation -- about 3-4 four feet long of four-
inch binders. It was a very good resource that was quickly
augmented by a selected few Unix administration third-party books.
With later version of SunOS, as well as the early Solaris releases,
this same material was on a CD as postscript files -- another
useful source (their so-called AnswerBook, which I never did
actually install per se, but just read it directly using pageview
PS viewing software). They mucked it up however with the release
of Solaris 2.6, changing the AnswerBook format and making it much
less useful. At the same time they significantly modified the Unix
install procedure, using instead of a quick-loading mini-root from
CD a very slow loading graphic shell -- yuck. Moves by Sun that I
was thrilled about, despite their making Solaris cheaper for so-
called developers.
I have RedHat Linux 6 and I am not happy. I was very dismayed to
see how big the loaded version was, which very quickly filled
400+ MB of material onto my 540MB hard drive with just basic
stuff, and it seems to run slow to boot (including very slow to
boot-up). In contrast, when I earlier played with FreeBSD (2.2.5),
that seemed to be a lean and mean, fast running system on a
comparable 486-33 that I have the Linux on. Software bloat is
most definitely an issue -- and unless you REALLY KNOW Unix, it is
tough (like for Win9x) to know which files can be trimmed away.
And reliance on package installs/removes doesn't help, as they
don't tell you of Unix dependencies in their documentation, hence
a growing problem like for WinDoze. Not good I think.
Now to my question --
Has anyone actually done an speed comparison between Linux, FreeBSD,
and NetBSD?
My impression (from limited exposure) is that BSD-based kernel
versions run much faster (and are generally smaller in size) than
comparable SYS-V or Linux systems. That comment stems from
comparisons of SunOS and Solaris on comparable Sun systems, followed
by FreeBSD and Linux on comparable 486 systems.
In particular, I would like to know how FreeBSD compares to the
more open (cross-platform) implementation in NetBSD.
This is clearly off-topic, so reply offline. Thanks.
Cheers. Kevin
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College
Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325
e-mail: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson(a)augustana.edu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent
the administration of Augustana College.
>(I'm answering to Tonys mail, since I never recived Charles')
>
>I got a somewhat different momory on this topic. Back when
>the Mac was new, it was like a 180 Degree shift in Apples
>information policy. In my view Apple did anything to hinder
>developers. And that'S not only my opinion - back then I was
>part of a 'gang' of A][ freaks, and of course we where interested
>in the Mac, but beside the deadly high price for the Mac,
>the even higher costs of documentations and the lack of a
>real choice in programming language was prohibitive. With
>the Apple ][ you recived a full machine and OS description
>free of additional charge - for the Mac with a price, at least
>double to tripple the price of an A][ you go _nothing_, you
>rather had to spend again almost again the money for an A][,
>just for documentation and very minimalistic tools. And if
>this isn't enough, you had to sign a contract with Apple to
>get all the stuff - you know, they didn't want to sell just
>to geeks anymore. Only two of us did jump onto the Mac - all
>other stayed with the A][, and eventualy became IBM-PC guys.
>IBM did exactly the same as Apple with the A][ - give information
>to the people - yes, they charged, but way less than Apple,
>and you don't need to sell your soul - if your able to tell
>the Name of the document you got it. Well, yes, if we walked
>into the IBM store (Aeh, not store... royal dependance:) at
>this time, we didn't get the same 'audience' as 'real' customers,
>but we told what we want (i.e. an order number) and we get
>it fast and as we want it.
>
>And don't tell me about the complex informations etc. At this
>Time I was already doing some (truly small) jobs with Xerox
>systems - IMHO a way better integrated system as the Mac ever
>did become. It should have been the responsibility of Apple
>to give the developers info out the easy way.
>
>Gruss
>H.
>
>--
>VCF Europa am 29./30. April 2000 in Muenchen
>http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
>http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
Well, since everyone on the list has thrown in their two (or more) cents, I
finally feel it is my turn.
Anyway, Hans has a good point going here, Apple did with the Macintosh what
TI tried to do when the TI-99/4A was out: try to block out third party
developers. What can we learn from this? Very simple, never try to tell
people they can't develop hardware & software for a machine, because that
will only give people the extra push they need to develop stuff for a
computer.
But this is something I have noticed: We all know how many PC manufacturers
are abound (maybe too many), by there are how many Macintosh clone
manufacturers? (I can't think of any off the top of my head)
And the Government is jumping in Microsoft's back for being monopolistic?
They might want to look on the other end of the spectrum. (Now I can
understand why IBM & Motorola are pissed off at Apple for not letting clone
manufacturers use G3/G4's in their Maclones.) If you ask me, (and so begins
my conspiracy theory) I think the Microsoft Antitrust Trial was a sham,
because why would CEO's of major software houses go against Microsoft when,
in most cases, their software is flying off the shelves? You do not bite the
hand that feeds you, unless the hand being bitten is not feeding you! If you
ask me, I think only one man had something to gain from this, his name is
Steve Jobs.
____________________________________________________________
David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian.
Computer Collection:
"Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20.
"Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II.
"Delorean": TI-99/4A.
"Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable.
"Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3.
"Boombox": Sharp PC-7000.
____________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
What is, in your opinion, the best laptop with the best monochrome screen.
If I was asked I'd definitely say the Macintosh Portable.
I'd say this because this computer was one of the first to use active matrix
screen technology. Do remember, in 1989 that was more or less new
technology!
I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to limit this to laptops with
monochrome screens. The last time I did a poll on this list (Top 10: Best
laptop keyboard) it went totally off.
____________________________________________________________
David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian.
Computer Collection:
"Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20.
"Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II.
"Delorean": TI-99/4A.
"Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable.
"Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3.
"Boombox": Sharp PC-7000.
____________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Found elsewhere and forwarded for your possible amusement; a damn
sight more OT than why not to ever get in a TraumaHawk or a Lance...
(No, I wouldn't either....) ;}
---------- Forwarded message ----------
This is the story of a different kind. No melting CPU's, no screaming disc
drives, just the kind of psychological torture that scars a man for life.
I had a 9:00 meeting with my sales rep. I needed to buy an entire new
series 70, the works. He said it'd take about an hour. Three hours later,
we'd barely got the datacomm hardware down on paper, so he invited me
downstairs for lunch.
This was my first experience in an HP cafeteria. Above the service counter
was a menu which began...
MMU's (Main Menu Units)
0001A Burger. Includes sesame-seed bun.
Must order comdiments 00110A seperatly
001 Deletes seeds.
002 Expands burger to two patties.
00020A Double cheeseburger, preconfigured. Includes cheese, bun and
condiments.
001 Add-on bacon.
002 Delete second patty.
003 Replaces second patty with extra cheese.
00021A Burger Upgrade to Double Cheeseburger
001 From Single Burger.
002 From Double Burger.
003 Return credit for bun.
00220A Burger Bundle. Includes 00010A, 00210A and 00310A
001 Substitute root beer 00311A for cola 00310A.
My eyes glazed over. I asked for a burger and a root beer. The waitress
looked at me like I was an alien.
"How would you like to order that, sir ?"
"Quickly, if possible. Can't I just order a sandwich and a drink ?"
"No sir. All our service is menu driven. Now what would you like ?"
I scanned the menu. "How big is the 00010 burger ?"
"The patty is rated at eight bites."
"Well, how about the rest of it ?"
"I dont have the specs on that, sir, but I think it's a bit more."
"Eight bites is too small. Give me the Double Burger Upgrade."
My sales rep interrupted. "No, you want the Single Burger option 002
'expands burger to two patties'. The double burger upgrade would give you
two burgers.
"But you could get return credit on the extra bun," the waitress chimed in,
trying to be helpful, "although it isn't documented."
I looked around to see if anybody was staring at me. There was a couple in
line behind us. I recognized one of them, a guy who merely mowed me down in
the parking lot with his cherry-red '62 Vette. He was talking to some woman
who was waving her arms around and looking very excited.
"What if... we marketed the bacon cheeseburger with the vegetable option
and without the burger and cheese ? It'd be a BLT!"
The woman charged off in the direction of the telephone, running
steeplechases over tables and chairs. My waitress tried to get my attention
again. "Have you decided, sir ?"
"Yeah, give me the double burger- excuse me, I mean the 00020A with the
option 001. I want everything on it." She put me down for the Condiment
Expansion Kit, which included mayonnaise, mustard and pickles with a option
to substitute relish.
"Ketchup." I hated to ask. "I want ketchup on that, too."
"Thats not a
condiment, sir, it's a Tomato Product." My sales rep butted in again.
"Thats not a supported configuration."
"What now ?" I kept my voice steady.
"Too juicy. The bun can't handle it."
"Look. Forget the ketchup, just put some lettuce and tomatoes on it."
The waitress backed away from the counter. "I'm sorry, sir, but thats not
supported either, the bun can take it but the burger won't fit in the box.
The sales rep defended himself. "Just not at first release." "It is being
beta-tested, sir."
I checked the overhead scree. Fries, number 000210A, option 110. French
followed by option 120, English. "What the hell are English Fries ?" I
turned to the sales rep. "Chips they call them. We sell a lot of them."
I gave up. "OK, OK just give me a plain vanilla Burger Bundle." The
confused the waitress profoundly.
"Sir, Vanilla as an option is configured only for series 00450
Milkshakes." My sales rep chuckles. "No ma'am, he just wants a
standard 00220A off the shelf. I wondered how long it had been on the
shelf. I didn't ask.
"Very good, sir." The waitress breathed a sigh off belief. "Your meal is
now on order. Now how would you like it supported ?"
"Support ?"
She directed me to the green shaded area at the bottom of the menu,
and I began a litany with my Sales Rep that I'll never forget.
"Implementation assistance ?"
"You get a waiter."
"Implementation analysis ?"
You tell him how hungry you are and he tells you what to eat."
"Response Center Support ?"
"He brings it to your table."
"Extended materials ?"
"You get refills."
I stuffed some money at the waitress and told her to take it. She gave me
my check on three sheets of green-bar paper. I studied it on my way to the
table, and decided it'd pass as an emergency napkin.
Table ? My Sales Rep had been bright enough to order us a table. He hadn't
been bright enough to check on a delivery date. The table waiter slouching
in his corner surveyed the crowded room, looked at me and said "Two weeks.
But I can get you a standalone chair by the window right away."
I handed him the tray. A woman rushed up to me with two small cups of chile
and sauerkraut for the hot dog somebody else had ordered. The room began to
grom dim, my eyesight faded...
I woke up clutching the water-glass at my bedside table. It was five AM,
four hours till my meeting with HP. I had had a vision, I did what it told
me to do. I dialed my office, and I called in sick.
by Stephen Harrison and Noel Magee
-- end of forwarded message --
>Hi,
>Does anyone have any docs and/or software for Varian machines,
>particularly the 620/L-100 since I just got one, but any Varian stuff
>would be cool.
http://www.spies.com/aek/orphan.html
>I don't remember slew, but a slip is when you turn the plane slightly
>sideways to the path of motion, often to slow it down or account for
>crosswinds in a landing. Don't forget to point it straight before touchdown
>though, or it gets "interesting".
Slip is applied yaw. I've done a few lanings in high wind demonstrating the
application of yaw.
Allison
>Since that seems to be the almost the only aspect that matters these
>days, then maybe that one of the reasons why DEC did not succeed.
Their lack of direct marketing via radio and TV was a handicap. However,
KO felt the product being marketed was a technical one for professionals
and not directed at hobbiests.
>As you, and many others have stated, DEC had a better mouse
>trap. It almost always worked. The cheese was delicious and
>rarely ran out. But the other reason for the failure of DEC was that
>the DEC mouse trap was so much more expensive to buy that few
>households could afford to buy one. Never mind that in the long
Mostly prose but not completely true. The cost for a Robin, Rainbow
or PRO was consistant with the time for a competeing system with
similar hardware, software and quality. Of course that was the early 80s.
Reality was much more complex than the story of mice and traps.
DEC suffered from a complex product, limited marketing and a vision
that was right for the industry as it was (60s, 70s and early 80s) and
not was it is (for 1987 on). As a result DEC was holding facilities
like PNO, WFO and others complete with trained personell and
nothing for them to do quite literally. At the same time engineering
and marketing groups were sending things overseas for cost reasons.
It didn't take a brain surgeon to see that overhead was way out of line
as there were no layoffs until Palmer appeared. Also over the years
there were what I called "stupid product decisions".
My favorite is the LA75, $700 printer that TEC sold for $350 at local
stores. Sure DEC improved it, but it was costly. Other were monsters
like the VAX9000, fast, powerful and expensive. It was quickly replaced
by the cheaper 6000 series. Older projects like the PRO, sold maybe
40,000 units against a plan that was only scaled for 30,000! If that
sounds bad it was declared a failure. Exceeded plan and failed! An
example of short sightedness as to the size of the market. Other
examples are infamous. I got the dubious honor of participating in
just a few.
DEC was a engineering, a technology and service company. They did
not do a good job at marketing. It was mismanagemant of costs would
end a good run.
I used to remind people and they thought me nuts. If you want to annoy
the customer ship junk. If you really want to become unforgetable in the
customers eyes, go out of business. The former they can forgive if you
fix it, the latter is unforgiveable as your product is part of their
business.
DEC came close to unforgiveable, save for Compaq being there.
Allison
A local scrapper has a couple of HP 2436E versions of the HP
A400 mini's. Anyone know anything about these? I'm sure they meet the 10
year rule, but probably not by much. I believe HP still referred to
these as the HP 1000 systems---probably the next generation after the MX
series. These are part of a medical/cardiology monitoring system but I
would think he might separate them if anyone is interested. In Virginia,
BTW----near Roanoke.
Craig
I'm hoping someone can tell me something I'm missing here, cause I just
can't believe what I'm seeing....
HP7900A disc drive, using the standard media for it. The media for this
drive is virtually identical to an RK05 cartridge. I have 4 pieces of media.
I pulled a cartridge from the stack and tried to spin up the drive. Blowers
come on, but when you hit the load switch the spindle just sits there. After
three days of checking all the sensors, tracing the wires, pouring over the
schematics, still no go.
So finally on a whim (yeah, it's the first thing I should have tried) I
pulled out the cartridge, popped the cover on the drive and defeated all the
sensors. The drive spindle motor started like a champ. Put the cartridge
back in - no spindle motor. However, I noticed that when the cartridge is
in, the relay that gives AC to the spindle motor does engage correctly, but
no spindle movement. So to make a long story short, I tried the other three
pieces of media I have. I put in each piece of media at least 20 times -
every time the spindle starts up fine. But, put in that first piece of
media, the relay engages, but the spindle sits still.
What gives here? What on earth could be wrong with a media cartridge that
would cause the spindle not to move? I tried lifting up the platter slightly
and turning it, it seems to turn just as freely in the "bad" cartridge as in
the other three. I'm just really confused - is there something I'm missing
here???
Dazed and confused....
Jay West
I think this might be skirting the 10 year rule, but if anyone would
know or know where to look, it'd be youse guys.
I was just given a 3/80, an IPC, and a 20" Sun GDM (which I
assume to mean Trinitron) monitor. Is there an adapter cable that
will allow me to use the monitor on one of my Macs?
The IPC has a pair of NIC's in it, so I'd like to set it up as an IP
router/firewall later this year when I get DSL. Always wanted a
piece of Sun equipment in my network..... :o)
Any help and/or pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware(a)laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware
Hi,
Does anyone have any docs and/or software for Varian machines, particularly
the 620/L-100 since I just got one, but any Varian stuff would be cool.
Will J
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Hi,
In case it isn't common knowledge, the classiccmp list archives at the
u.washington can be accessed using a gopher client or web browser at
gopher://lists.u.washington.edu:70/11/public/classiccmp
Presumably if someone were to submit that URL to a search engine that can
handle gopher: URLs, they would be indexed...
-- Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: David Vohs <netsurfer_x1(a)hotmail.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Monday, April 10, 2000 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Mac (was: !Re: Nuke Redmond!)
>Well, since everyone on the list has thrown in their two (or more) cents,
I
>finally feel it is my turn.
>
>Anyway, Hans has a good point going here, Apple did with the Macintosh
what
>TI tried to do when the TI-99/4A was out: try to block out third party
>developers. What can we learn from this? Very simple, never try to tell
>people they can't develop hardware & software for a machine, because that
>will only give people the extra push they need to develop stuff for a
>computer.
>
>But this is something I have noticed: We all know how many PC
manufacturers
>are abound (maybe too many), by there are how many Macintosh clone
>manufacturers? (I can't think of any off the top of my head)
My understanding is that many people (including Bill Gates!) encouraged
Apple to allow licensing of the Macintosh OS and the building of Mac clones
in the 80s and early 90s. But the management team headed by John Sculley
felt that this would amount to giving away the company, because Apple was
making most of its profits on hardware sales. If cheap Mac clones were
everywhere, who would pay Apples prices for a true Mac?
This belief was not totally unreasonable - look at what happened to IBM's
sales of PCs once clones with 100% compatible third-party BIOSes were
widely available.
Apple failed to understand that their window to exploit the Mac's
innovations was short. Once someone else produced a windowing OS that ran
on cheaper PC hardware (as Microsoft eventually did), Apple's hardware
sales would die, and the Mac OS would have lost it's chance to dominate.
And that's what happened.
There were several Power PC Mac clone manufacturers, after Apple belatedly
changed it's mind in the mid-to-late 90s. Among them StarMax, Umax, and
Motorola (I think).
>
>And the Government is jumping in Microsoft's back for being monopolistic?
>They might want to look on the other end of the spectrum. (Now I can
>understand why IBM & Motorola are pissed off at Apple for not letting
clone
>manufacturers use G3/G4's in their Maclones.) If you ask me, (and so
begins
>my conspiracy theory) I think the Microsoft Antitrust Trial was a sham,
>because why would CEO's of major software houses go against Microsoft
when,
>in most cases, their software is flying off the shelves? You do not bite
the
>hand that feeds you, unless the hand being bitten is not feeding you! If
you
>ask me, I think only one man had something to gain from this, his name is
>Steve Jobs.
Aren't Oracle, Corel, Sun and Netscape major software houses? Larry
Ellison, Michael Cowpland, Scott McNeely, and Marc Andreesen have been
vocal opponents of Microsofts at one time or another.
And Steve Jobs can't afford to come out against Microsoft, because the
viability of the iMac depends to some extent on the availability of
Microsoft Office for that platform.
Apple doesn't effectively control segments of the marketplace the way
Microsoft does. There's nothing monopolistic about restricting access to
processors or components - lots of products are proprietary to one company
and not released for sale to other companies. It's just a bad idea,
something that Apple seems determined never to learn.
Regards,
Mark.
>____________________________________________________________
>David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian.
>
>Computer Collection:
>
>"Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20.
>"Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II.
>"Delorean": TI-99/4A.
>"Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable.
>"Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3.
>"Boombox": Sharp PC-7000.
>____________________________________________________________
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Roberts <geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au>
>There is certainly a fairly wide variation between supposedly identical
>aircraft.
Training birds tend to be more out of rig. Use and abuse.
Mine was never a primary trainer and has better habits.
>Very. One of the guys I spoke too was literally chalk white when he got
>out of the aircraft.
>After years of flying a docile little Cherokee 140 he'd never
>experienced either a stall related
>snap or seen the effect of aileron on a dropped wing in a Cessna.
My first experience with a reall snap was a C152, it was flipped at
55hrs TT. It was a really nice bird but even clean approach stalls
it would violently snap to the right every time. There more about
that one but I prefer to not talk about it. Suffice to say it never got
to 150hrs. Most 152s do not fly like that.
>About sums it up. I did a Cherokee endorsement when I moved to Broken
>Hill in the 70's, and all
>they had was Cherokees, I used to fly a Cherokee Arrow
>(PA28-180-Retractable) home on some weekends, it was a nice ride. But
>the short field performance sucked and you can't taxi them through
>gates up to a house. (Both very important in a bush aircraft in this
>country.)
it was like landing a brick.
>I did an endorsement on a Victa Airtourer (looks a bit like a 2 seat
>AA5) locally (then - we sold the factory to New Zealand, then the Air
I've seen one.
>engine. Unusual control setup, instead of dual's it had a single stick
>with a spade grip in the middle of the cockpit and a central throttle.
>Easy once you get used to it. Was a lot of fun to fly, I first learnt
>how to spin in that, since spins are classed as an aerobatic manouevre
>in this country - and a stock C150 isn't cleared for them - they teach
>you how to recover from an INCIPIENT spin instead. Not sure I'm
>comfortable with that, spins are very disconcerting the first couple of
>times you encounter them, it should be a requirement.
>I have more hours in C150's than anything else, I liked them a lot.
I feel spins are important training. That and basic acro so there are no
unusual attitudes after that. Of my hours, 600 or so are in '528 my C150
and two others I trained in. It a bird I know very well right to the
screws.
I've flown it for 21 years and done a lot of the lighter maintenance even
part of the ovehaul.
>(First plane, first car, first computer, first love - they all seem to
>be special)
ah, yes.
>One day when I am rich and famous (yeah, right) I'm going to buy me one.
>I'd like the one I
>learnt in if I can, last time I looked in a register VH-KQY was still
>doing mustering on a station in Western Australia. Been there since 85.
>At least it's still flying.....
That or one of those odd aussi ag birds.
Allison
Re:
> I stopped in to the Hillsboro Wacky Willies about an hour ago. They had a
Where's Hillsboro? (city, state?)
> HP 3000/925LX in a rack with I believe a 9-Track tape drive, a pallet of
> terminals with I believe a small rack, and several boxes of MPE manuals.
An HP 3000/925LX is a PA-RISC system (probably 1.0 architecture),
with a clock of about 10 MHz. It's a CIO-based I/O architecture,
so the PuffinGroup Linux port will *not* run on it, nor will MPE/iX 6.5 (the
last release that will run on it is MPE/iX 6.0). It's one of the three or
four slowest PA-RISC systems ever built.
Stan
Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.htmlwww.allegro.com/sieler
On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 Bill Pechter wrote:
> > Uh, Duh. Ok, I wondered if it was an IR led but now I know it is and that
> > it is working because I can get the mouse to move a teeny bit by running
> > it over dense text.
> >
> > I think I have to make a mousepad. Any ideas on the distance between
> > lines etc? --
>
> Is this a Sun4 mouse or Sun3.
I recently bought three padless type 4 Sun mice, with the aim of hacking one
to work on my Amiga, and also as a PC bus mouse.
Does type 4 mean the type that came with Sun4 workstations? How do Sun3 and
Sun4 mouse pads differ? Are replacements still available? Are Mouse Systems
still alive?
-- Mark
>being produced by M$ since Win'9x came along. Moreover, the level of
>documentation available for M$ operating systems is, quite simply, a JOKE!
Actually the documentation is good but also there is tons of it worse than
the
vax grey wall if you try to get it all in one place. Its also a hell of a
task to find
things you need among all of that.
>If, for example, IBM hadn't given in so easily with OS/2 we'd have had a
>much leaner, faster, RELIABLE OS running on our desktop systems years ago -
>not necessarily OS/2, but then it wouldn't be the crap we're stuck with now
>either.
I wonder... Linux is getting bigger by the day and the desktops for it do
add
weight.
Allison
>> I have to agree with Pete on this one. I am an American and his
>> definitions are correct. Slew also used as a term of flight orientation
>> in Aircraft is all I can add.
>
>Interesting! Will you provide a sample for illustration?
I'd be interested. I know pitch, roll and yaw. Though the slew rate for
C150 ailerons is a slow 6 degrees/sec. ;)
Allison
If David Williams is still subscribed, please drop me a line
privately.
TIA for the egregious theft of bandwidth.... it *is* on-topic
related, however.... :)
Cheers
John
From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com>
>I'd be interested in knowing what support there is for GPIB on the ISA bus
>in a PC. I've got a National Instruments GPIB interface card, yet have
>never seen fit to lay out the dough for their GUI-based software. Is there
>anything out there other than LabView? I have some equipment that might
>like the GPIB, but have not had need to use it since Windows became the
>de-facto standard. Labview doesn't have drivers for the 'scope and logic
>analyzer that I'd be wanting to use.
I must have at least three or four of them in use. We connect them to
Keithley 706A scanners and Keithley 2000DMMs to measure production
units under test. Others are used for lab use and various test setups.
Nothing exciting or gui, just down in the trenches test and data logging.
Text mode output and write logging to floppy. It's not a process that can be
done fast so theres no rush.
We don't however use labview. the usual rig is a dosbox (ISA 286/386/486)
running homegrown QuickBasic4.5 code and the supplied dos/qb45 driver. They
are pretty easy to talk to. I've used the dos drivers under w95 for testing
and it's a workable arrangement. One thing I'm trying under W95 is the
Pascal drivers with Delphi as the GUI, this has potential as the database is
handy for post logging analysis.
Allison
I have a VAX GPX cable (db-15 to three BNCs, Mouse, and Keyboard) that I
would like to trade for a VAX SCSI cable that works on the VS3100/M76. (68
pin to 50 pin). If you've got one and would like to trade please contact me
off list, thanks.
--Chuck
On April 10, Hans Franke wrote:
> Thanks to Killer Steve NOS is already classic :( VCFe will have a
> Newton Display, although the no Newton fits the 10 year rule.
I dunno, man...so they're not being *made* anymore...there's still a
huge market for them; I use my MP2000 every day. A bunch of people
at my office have PalmPilots...I *hate* those blased things...I don't
want to have to learn a second alphabet just because the PalmOS idiots
can't get character recognition right!
-Dave McGuire
My LC II is my main Macintosh even though I have a better Mac IIci because
the LC II has the Apple IIe Card.
I use a Apple 12" Monochrome Display (M1050), but my AppleColor
High-Resolution RGB Monitor (M1297) works on it as well. Screen resolution
is 640x480x256 (I think).
There is 4MB on the board and two SIMM slots which can hold up to 4MB in
each slot. That equals 12MB but the computer will only address 10MB (some
weird Apple memory scheme I believe is related to 24-bit addressing).
I have several cards for the single PDS slot: the Apple IIe Card, Ethernet
network cards, and a video card for a large (17-19 inch I think) monochrome
monitor.
I think the last version of MacOS it can run is 7.5.5 because the ROMs are
not 32-bit clean. I use MacOS 7.1 with Update 3.0.
You can get an older version of ClarisWorks very cheap. You may wish to
purchase an external SCSI CD-ROM drive. I can give you the web addresses
of several vendors who sell used older Macintosh stuff.
Paul R. Santa-Maria
Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
paulrsm(a)ameritech.net
----------
> From: Kevin L. Anderson <kla(a)helios.augustana.edu>
> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: OT: Apple Mac LC II
> Date: Monday, April 10, 2000 10:38 AM
>
> This is off-topic, so please reply directly. Thanks.
>
> My son was just given a Mac LC II without a monitor, but
> including a keyboard and mouse. I am not a Mac user or
> owner (until now), so I have no idea whatsoever to be looking
> for in a replacement monitor. Is the LC II a B&W or Color
> computer (I don't have the foggiest :-)? Help.
>
> The computer has a 160MB hard drive, a floppy drive, and what
> appears to be one memory SIMM (with four big chips on it, so
> I'm guessing 4MB at most).
>
> Cheers. Kevin
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College
> Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325
> e-mail: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson(a)augustana.edu
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent
> the administration of Augustana College.
When I worked in a UNIX shop, somebody told me that
wrinkled aluminum foil would work. I've never tried
this, but it seems plausible.
Jeff
On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:10:26 +0200 "Sipke de Wal" <sipke(a)wxs.nl> writes:
> On very white paper ! (Should be white to IR)
> (There is a lot of chalk on premium Inkjet
> paper that may do)
>
> On my Sun 3/80 mouspad the lines are 1 mm
> apart
> and 0.1 to 0.2 mm thick
>
> Sipke
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>> the same, with a few notable exceptions where the concept don't match
>> (MS-DOS for example does not have an IOBYTE).
>
>What of those things internal would you have had them leave out in order to
>be more different from CP/M, which was a VERY popular OS at the time,
>without removing its functionality. Since the features to which you refer
>are internal, I assume you have precice citations of common source code,
>right? They're certainly not obvious to me in my role as a fairly frequent
>user.
The features he refers to are the calls to the BDOS to do things like
File_OPEN,
FILE_CLOSE, FILE DELETE..... and so on.
>Since there is only one segment in CP/M, I guess you've got 'em there. Of
>course it really doesn't matter what the location is, does it? I guess any
>OS that load a register and then calls a specific location is a copy of
>CP/M, right?
Not really, CPM loaded to a specific segment but apps could use any and all
to the then 8086 1mb limit.
>> You can also terminate a program by calling location 0000h (again, in a
>> COM program). In CP/M this causes a warm reset (similar functionality).
>>
>It's like saying a FORD is a copy of a Dusenberg because they both use
>wheels.
This was a feature unique to CPM and DOS as many others loc(0) was
either reset (hard), ROM, unused or reserved.
>The mapping of one register set into the other is not an accident. Ask
>Intel about that! I'm told that CP/M-86 is considerably more than a
>translation of CP/M-80. Now you suggest that the roots of MS-DOS are
>entirely in CP/M? They may have common roots, as they reflect the then
CPM-86 was not entirely 8080 code lofted, that would never ru without help.
Also there was a loader change implemented, boot loads a file system aware
loader that finds cpm.sys. This was not the 8080 way.
As far as register usage, that is an artifact of PLM used to write the
V1.3/1.4
and later versions of CPM80. With that convention established it was kept
to keep applications that called the BDOS compatable.
>I've heard that, too. Does that mean that anyone who writes a program to
do
>what he's seen another program do is making a copy? You're not even sure
he
>actually saw and read the source code. How many programmers do you know
>who'd simply copy someone else's work in a case like this? Everybody wants
>to leave his own mark.
DOS 1.0 had COPYRIGHT Digital Research INC inside! There was a quiet
copyright battle that forced DOS 2.0 (buggiest thing in the world!). This
is not
fiction and it was documented.
>Buying something that shortens your burden is kind-of like buying an
>integrated circuit rather than making the thing yourself starting with a
>wheelbarrow of sand. The fact that Microsoft knew that IBM had gone to
>Kildall probably told them what they wanted was sort-f like CP/M.
They didn't care only that there would be apps for it to run like Visicalc!
Allison
On April 10, Hans Franke wrote:
> > I dunno, man...so they're not being *made* anymore...there's still a
> > huge market for them; I use my MP2000 every day. A bunch of people
> > at my office have PalmPilots...I *hate* those blased things...I don't
> > want to have to learn a second alphabet just because the PalmOS idiots
> > can't get character recognition right!
>
> :))
>
> Like in "I don't want to learn shell commands, just because they
> don't get their GUI working' ? :))
;)
> SCNR, but NOS compared to PalmOS is realy like Mac vs. Dos or
> better - A Star compared to Win 3.0.
Yup.
-Dave McGuire
On April 10, Stan Sieler wrote:
> An HP 9000/H20 is a 48 MHz PA-RISC system, also known as an 827.
> It's got a very small cache (64 KB data, 64 KB code).
>
> I'd guess it's valued in the $1000 to $2000 range. I picked up an E55 (twice
> as fast) for $400 in 1999...but that was a really good price.
>
> OTOH, if you want to part it out, I'd be interested in some of
> the memory for an HP 3000/927 I just got.
While we're on the topic...I recently picked up an HP9000 model I70
(dual 96Mhz PA-RISC processors) and it's got some sort of funky
multi-serial-port card (16 ports) in it that terminates in a huge D-shell
connector. From what little info I've been able to find online, it
seems that the console I/O goes to one of the serial lines on that
board. Alas, I don't have any cables/breakout boxes/etc to connect to
that board. Can someone here tell me what I need to find to talk to
the console of this box? Even some pinouts of that big connector
might help. Thanks!
-Dave McGuire
>There were daughterboards that fitted in place of the 80286 processor
>chip. They normally contained an 80386SX (16 bit data bus) or sometimes a
>486SLC-type thing (that could be convinced to use a 16 bit data bus
>without too much work) and a couple of PLDs to combine bus control
>signals, etc. Some of them even had a floating point chip on the board.
>
Ah - the "SX/Now!" from Kingston, for example. Installed a bunch of them.
When we had problems with them, the tended to be referred to as the "Sucks
Now!"... Before that, it was the "Excellerator" board, which used an ISA
card with essentially a complete 286 CPU, RAM, etc. and a DIP jumper which
plugged into the 8086 socket and made your PC into a screaming 16Mhz '286.
Installed a bunch of those, too. Many years ago, we went through a whole
upgrade cycle on all of the original PC machines our company had out in the
field; brought them into the office, installed an Excellerator and a 20MB
"Hard Card", and a <*gasp> 2400 baud modem!!
Bill Richman
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf
microcomputer simulator!)
I have no idea how old this is (so I dont know about the 10-year
rule), so if I'm mistaken, someone slap me.
Anyway, I picked this up tonight.. Anyone with any clue about HP
equipment know how much this is worth? Its big and hefty, currently
has HP-UX 11.0 loaded (altho I have full media and licenses for 10.20,
10.10, and 10.0). Its just TOO BIG to use as a home machine or server,
and I'm looking to either sell it, or swap it straight-out for a decently
configured 9000/712 or 9000/715-series desktop box. If anybody's
interested at all, let me know.
Thanks.
Bill
HP 9000/800 Model H20
Serial # 3537A86223
Product # A2366A
Internal SCSI Devices:
C2477SZ
serial # 3352E95739
A3087A
serial # 5075A81767
A3087A
serial # 5075A04158
Slot contents (in the back):
1: "8 CHAN SYNC MUX" (I dont have the cable or the "expander box" that goes
with this)
7/8: 28696-60001 HP-PB 16 Bit Differential SCSI
D13/B14: SCSI / CONSOLE / LAN
The system also has 2 64mb memory cards and 4 32mb memory cards installed,
for a grand total of 256mb RAM. It currently has HP-UX B.11.00 installed,
and has full licenses (on paper even) and CD-ROM media for HP-UX 10.0, 10.10,
and 10.20.
--
+--------------------+-------------------+
| Bill Bradford | Austin, Texas |
+--------------------+-------------------+
| mrbill(a)sunhelp.org | mrbill(a)mrbill.net |
+--------------------+-------------------+
I sent this to the list Saturday, but as far as I can tell it never
arrived. Figured I should resend it in case anyone is interested.
Zane
I stopped in to the Hillsboro Wacky Willies about an hour ago. They had a
HP 3000/925LX in a rack with I believe a 9-Track tape drive, a pallet of
terminals with I believe a small rack, and several boxes of MPE manuals.
I didn't have any time to ask about it, as I didn't even have time to stop
in and look :^) Plus I don't know how complete it might be or how much
they want for any of it. I also don't know if they had more to the system
or not. These days there is a large part of the store that customers can't
get into.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |