- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>This is not a problem. One just has to make sure that one has a >system in one's collection running Bob Subnik's emulator attached to >one's real PDP-11s. Have the one with the emulator monitoring >something on the real PDP-11 systems, or somesuch, then, you ARE using >the versions of RT-11 on the real PDP-11s with Bob Supnik's emulator. >:-) :-) :-) Sorry, the current license does NOT impart a right to run the software on *real hardware*. It only imparts a right to use it with the DEC pdp-11 emulator products and Bob Supnik's emulator. This means running it *on* the emulator, not what you mention above. >Ok, let's not make a big deal out of people using RT-11 on their >systems. If they don't have a copy, someone will probably clone them >a copy. No big deal, and DEC didn't care. I was actually told, by >someone in customer service at DEC, to go ahead and use it and not >worry about the license, a few years back, and, when a very pleasant >chap from DEC field service came to my house to investigate a melted >mains plug, no questions were asked. If they said that, they were *wrong*. >There, _in conjunction with the EMULATOR_ - it doesn't say to only use >it with the emulator, but in conjunction with the emulator. Maybe in your mind it means you don't have to run it on the emulator, but now you are properly informed -- it means that you may only run it on the *emulated machine*. >Also, that bit about the license being revocable; that's probably as >binding as a contract of ashesion. Let's say you spend a huge amount >of time on writing some software to control various things around your >house that runs under RT-11; you most likely have a right to continue >using your software running under RT-11. You can continue to use your software, you just can't run it under RT -- regardless of what it is written for, since you don't have a valid license for RT. Please, all this talk of ignoring licenses and the lack of need for them can only serve to hurt to rest of the community of pdp-11 collectors. Mentec is apparently close to allow us all to use the real software on the real hardware... *DON'T SCREW IT UP* Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 3 months

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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>> Since when is/was RT-11 freeware? One of the hardest things about >>collecting >Don't know since when, but it is. I found it on many FTP-Sites, and I >asked around in Compaq (this time DEC), and they said, they made it >freely accessible. Saying it is doesn't make it so... it may be available on various sites, but that also doesn't make it legal. If it is the version which came originally from the ftp.digital.com site, then it should be packaged with the license from Mentec. If it does not come with the Mentec license, then it is essentially boot-legged software. >Hmmm... Then you should try the PUPS archive I think it is called. You >get a license for it for free. bzzzt, wrong... and thanks for playing. THe PUPS archive may be able to provide a license for *UNIX* of various flavors, but it does NOT provide one for RT, RSX or RSTS. The only source for a valid license for these software products is the *owner*, which is Mentec! Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 3 months

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Legal Question

by mbg＠world.std.com

>All this talk about RT-11, RSX-11M,RSTS/E licensing details is making me >wonder. If I acquired a PDP-11 of some kind, and it came with RSX-11M >and/or RT-11 and or/ RSTS/E, would I have to have a license? I know a Legally, yes, you would need a license. This step is accomplished by either buying one yourself or having the prior owner transfer theirs to you (assuming *they* had a license). >license is legally required, but is it essential in running the OS? Does >the OS have any way of checking for one? What is required for running the There is nothing in RT, RSTS or RSX which checks for a license, so it doesn't know you have or don't have one... >OS? I really don't know anything about the PDP-11 family. What is required is a complete distribution... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 23, 1:14, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > Maybe someday I'll replace OutlookExpress but for the time being it > > mostly does what I want. > > No need. Go into Tools. > Pick Options > Pick Read > Pick Fonts > Ensure encoding is set to Western European (Windows) I'm not sure that's quite ideal. I don't have Outlook here to check, but if that's what you normally do, you might be interested to know that *your* headers show: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit which is ridiculous, because "Windows-1252" is a unique Microsoft non-standard character set (meant to be similar to ISO 8859-1, but with a unique symbol order), and it's also an 8-bit character set which can't be represented in 7 bits without using base64, uuencode, quoted-printable, or similar. I'm not complaining, merely informing :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 3 months

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PDP-16 (register transfer modules)

by Anthony.Eros＠compaq.com

Does anyone have a PDP-16 (sort of a prototyping machine using register transfer modules) that they'd be willing to part with? I thought I'd made arrangements to snag one from "JohnB", but he appears to have disappeared from the face of the earth. This machine looks intriguing and I'd really like to find one. -- Tony

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Dagnabbit marvin, you running RTF or some junk like that? -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: How do you finance/afford your computer collection? > >> >I'm interested in hearing how others on this list afford to maintain and >> expand their collections. Especially people like John R. Keys. > >The problem is not cost, but rather time to play with this stuff and space >to keep it. Generally speaking, I have been given (and continue to be given) >quite a bit of stuff so acquiring is not the problem. I don't rent a storage >space, but rather keep everything here at the >house/garage/backporch/backyard/... >

26 years, 3 months

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Licenses (was Re: Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Sigh. Allison has this part of it wrong, and it is a common problem. > >The book *is* the license. The contents (words etc) are licensed to the >particular bits of paper and cover that you are holding in your hand. When >you transfer the paper, the words go with it. You are forbidden from No, the book is media (I didn't say paper, tape, or ???). >copying the words off the paper and putting them on to some other piece of >paper. What you *own* in the book case is some newsprint, some wax, and >some binder thread *and that is all*. You own media! Bay saying Book it's an implied bound paper media. > You license the software and it is licensed (bound) to your CPU. > You own the CPU and may dispose of it how you wish, however if you > give it away or burn it or throw it away, the software goes with it! > Intel tried to make this model possible with their serial number > scheme but the market rejected it. > >So software, unlike books, is licensed to _people_. (or corporations) >because people and corporations like to be able to change their CPU and not >bother with relicensing their software. If you throw away the corporation >then the license gets thrown away too, just like if you had thrown away the >book. It can be, but, I have an ODBC driver that is "per CPU, unlimited users" that happens to be for a server license. >> The copyright means you can't make copies >>of it (other than limited amounts for reference with attribution) to sell >>or give away without expressed permission. > >Again, this isn't quite correct. The rights to make copies of a "work" >initially rest with the creator of that work. The creator (author what have >you) can then choose to grant limited subsets of those rights (or not) to >other people. As an author I am the copyright holder, I can assign some or >all of those rights to a "publisher" who is allowed to make copies of my >work, provided they send me a fee. *EVERYTHING* works this way, everything >from books to software to music to DVDs and to ill fated Divx disks. I think I said exactly that. The YOU is the holder of the finished product not a LICENSED producer who by expressed permission (contract) can and does produce copies for profit. However My reference also goes to intended use. For example a Encylopedias, they are an information source as reference where wholesale copying is bad but, the contained compendium of knowledge is NOT the property but, the format and package is. >> Software is going the >>route of, you pay for the media, manuals and support(optional) and also >>for rights to use under specified conditions as a CONTRACT. There >>lies the difference. the manuals are property (usually) but the software is >>provided under some stipulation (even freeware!) regarding it's use. > >Manuals still have copyrights, you cannot make copies of them without >permission. This is particularly true of manuals that are distributed as >PDF files. Generally you only have the write to print one copy for you own >personal use! Irrelevent. As I've specified manuals to be as books but distinct from the software itself. It's the distinction between them that was to point being made even though logically they can be identical. >Book authors have traditionally sold the rights to publish their works >(create copies) in paper form, without stipulating a transfer fee when the >book changes owners. They did that not because they were generous, but >because there wasn't any way they could figure out how to do it. (The >e-book guys can identify change of ownership and guess what, you can't give >your ebook to another person without them having to rebuy the book!) You sure? there are such things as licensed copies, copies under NDA and restricted printings. the assumption is you do not retain a copy in both cases. There is the distinct difference. If I give a paper book(tape or other media) away I no longer retain a copy, electronic means allow me to give a COPY and keep the "original" that is a clear copyright violation. There is also the case of I have a music CD, I copy it (or parts) to tape for use in my car where CDs are not useful. This would be format translation and is usually allowed. >Just because you have a copy of "Catcher in the Rye" it only gives you the >right to read it, not aloud at some gathering, or to put it on as a school >play. Correct to a point as profit taking venture. If you used it for schooling or non profit as a out loud reading it is now out side that. >Anyway, I don't mean to pick on anyone, it is not unusual for people to >believe that by buying a record they somehow "own" the music that is on >that record (or CD), they don't. They have only secured the right to listen >to it as often as they would like without additional payments to the Cant find fault in that. Its the exact case. Also no person from the record company or author is allowed to take it from you. They can audit you to see if it's for profit (ASCAP!). DJs for instance! >author. For some really interesting insight into just how intellectual >property works, check out the Napster and MP3 cases that have a lot of >their material posted on various web sites. Can of worms. At the core is who "owns the original work", what that original work is and who is allowed to profit from distribution. The best case of this is I make a recording my arrangement of Bach using pots and PC and sell it on CD. Who owns what? For software, it's worse. I write a version of Basic for 8080, assemble it using MS-MAC, using a Z80 box, under cpm and sell it on a sony microfloppy. Does Darthmoth College get something for the basis of the language? Howabout MS for the use of the MAC asembler used to get a binary? does Sony share as it's their media? Howabout Zilog as it was their cpu design even though it was a Mostek chip? Oh and Intel for their cpu and nemonics? Oh and the company that owned the Z80 box for accounting? What is created?, Who did it, who has a legit share? In any case the license (contract) for RT-11 is specific and any misuse outside that permitted use is a violation subject to legal remedy. Allison

26 years, 3 months

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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Good Morning, Fellow Classicians... A MicroPDP 11/73 (that's how it's listed) is available on E-Bay, it's not selling, so I can probably get it for the starting bid of five bucks, and it's local. I have no backround with the PDP-11 (and thus my recent query regarding those cards I have). It comes with a TS05 tape drive, which from the photo appears to be a Cipher F880 Microstreamer. I'm thinking of getting it just to have a spare for the Prime's tape drive. Here is what the seller has to say about it: : This is a Digital Equipment Corp Micro PDP11/73 computer : with a TS05 tape drive mounted in a rack. Also included is : what I think is a hard disk unit mounted below the computer. : The front panel of this unit says 'USDC CSS-800 Compact : Storage System'. Also included is a VT320 amber video : terminal. If you look at the photos below you will see that : there is a large space in the middle where something is : missing. I think that there were 2 hard disks mounted in this : space, but they were gone when I got the equipment. I bought : this stuff from the University of Louisville Medical School. : This is one part of a larger system. I have powered the : PDP11/73 up and it seems to boot up OK. When booted, this : is what come up on the screen: Testing in progress - Please : wait 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Starting ROM boot 173356 @ I think : the '@' is a command prompt, but I don't know what to do : from there. The CSS-800 unit has lights that come on in the : front, and so does the tape drive, but I have no way to test : them. I can't be sure if this equipment is working properly, so : it is sold AS-IS. : : Should I rescue this machine? What OS do I need to acquire for it? Thanks for all replys, -doug quebbeman

26 years, 3 months

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Cheap parts available for AT&T 6300, AT&T 6300 monitor

by whdawson＠mlynk.com

Wakeup call! Haven't had any wanting the whole system or the monitor. It's parts time! Does anyone need any spares for their AT&T 6300? First the pictures, then the story: http://www.wpic.com/whdawson/classiccmp/ATT6300front.jpg http://www.wpic.com/whdawson/classiccmp/ATT6300rear.jpg I stopped in the local Hidden Treasures (actual name) store a couple of weeks ago and noticed this on the shelf, minus keyboard. I've been a regular visitor there for the last several years, and when I pointed out to Terry, the new manager, that this system was kinda useless without the AT&T keyboard, he told me to just take it, as in free, because it was probably going to end up in the dumpster anyway since no one seemed interested in it and this would save him the effort. The power supply fan runs, and little else. No cursor, no boot, no drive activity other than it initializing, no nothing, although the AT&T monitor appears OK since when I turn off the system I get green all over and retrace lines as the power collapses. Same if I unplug the monitor when the system is powered up. The monitor is powered from the 6300 and has a jumper from the PS to the video board, standard 6300. Here's the parts available: AT&T monitor, no screen burn, nice, cord storage in swivel base. AT&T 6300, made in Italy: PC1050 motherboard, markings of 0091-0-5-00 REV P4, AT&T 227692 T 10 CPU3 9/84, BIOS REV 1.21, FCC DVR7NICPU3; 8086-2 CPU, memory chips are MOSTEK MK4564-N-15; OLIVETTI Video PCB, full length, markings of CRT 313M; OLIVETTI Bus converter; 5.25" floppy drive; power supply; etc. This system is in very good to excellent condition. The computer is dusty inside, but even the felt feet are still on it. The CRT case is not yellowed. The story I got was that an elderly lady had donated it to the store. Cost is only 1.2 x shipping (cheapest way, unless specified otherwise)for whatever assemblies you want from it. Please email me off list and let me know what you need. FCFS I'm offering this to the list because I have enough going on and enough systems to restore to keep me busy for the next 10 years. Yes, I can probably find a keyboard and can also likely fix it, but I don't see anything wrong with some systems ending up as parts donors for others. I'll post to the list on the status of this as necessary. For shipping purposes, my zip is 15301. Bill Dawson whdawson(a)mlynk.com <mailto:whdawson@mlynk.com> ?

26 years, 3 months

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Local Computer Rescue Needed

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I got a call the other evening from a person wanting unload a number computers here in St. Paul, Here's his list - C64 no monitor with it - 2- TI's 99/4 black ones - Tandy color computer - TRS80 model 3 - 2- Mac Classic's - Apple IIgs with monitor and KB If anyone here in the Twincities wants some of this please email me and I will get you his email address. John Keys

26 years, 3 months

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Prime 2850 for Sale on E-Bay

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> A complete Prime 2850 system is for sale on E-Bay, > starting at one dollar. Reserve price in effect, > amount (as always) unknown. > > Here's a shortcut to the beast: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=364711731 > > -dq BTW, if you go there, look at tge picture carefully... there is what appears to be a 1200 ft reel of tape in a tape seal either lying on the floor under the 2850, or, God forbid, holding up the 2850 in lieu of a missing caster. Probably a Primos release tape. :-(

26 years, 3 months

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Prime 2850 for Sale on E-Bay

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

A complete Prime 2850 system is for sale on E-Bay, starting at one dollar. Reserve price in effect, amount (as always) unknown. Here's a shortcut to the beast: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=364711731 -dq

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 22, Sellam Ismail wrote: > YEAH! And while you're at it, throw that shitty Intel box out the window > and in the trash! DO IT NOW! You freaking losers! How dare you use any > Microcschlock products in my presence! You have an Intel box? Eeew. -Dave McGuire

26 years, 3 months

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Tapes

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, June 22, 2000 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Tapes > >Too long? Sure you waste a lot of tape, but any new audio tape is going to >be in better shape than any old Computer Cassettes you might find. I aways >used audio tapes with my VIC20, usually the absolute cheapest I could get >my hands on. IIRC, I usually used something like 60 minute tapes. > The shorter the tape length, the better. Modern extended-play tapes use a thinner nylon tape (to fit more tape in the standard cassette), which is more prone to stretching and breaking with repeated rewind/play cycles. Some older answering machines used very short standard cassettes, I'd estimate about C10 length. If you can find a store that still sells those (even a liquidator selling off those awful novelty "celebrity answering machine messages") they might be suitable. They would also be newer than the 15+ year old computer cassette tapes. Another option would be to shop for a cheap disk drive for your system. In my experience old 5.25" floppies in good condition are much easier to find than cassettes. Regards, Mark.

26 years, 3 months

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Yo

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

Even though the reply had a funny touch to it how else do you expect to have your collection survive you? Or don't you care about it? The main point was that there will allways (I hope) be other collectors willing to take on some else's collection there can even be a public distribution/sale or other for people interested. The thing I'm worried about is about my stuff ending in the trash (160 or so machines with peripherals and documentation) and I've specifically told my wife that if I die she should post a note on this very list and ask for help in disposing of it. She does consider my collection as a pile of junk but she also knows that this is not the opinion of everyone. Actually I am thinking of adding something to that nature in my will. I allways tink that I have time to think about it (I'm 34) but you never know... If you worry and value the conservation of your machines you should take the same dispositions and make sure that none is lost. Francois > This is amusing I suppose, until the first list members start to die. The > topic deserves serious discussion. >

26 years, 3 months

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Software Licensing (Was: RE: Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to t he Herd?)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Do you have any understanding of the computer industry? Do you have any > understanding of computers larger than your Windows box? Do you even look > at the licenses of any software you have purchased? I'm fairly sure you > don't remember the days when you didn't even own the computer, you rented > it, or rented time on one. I have owned a computer continuously since 1976, when I built a SOL (and I helped finish building an IMSAI the next year that was botched by a physics professor). Of the dozen or so computers I own, two are Windows boxen. My physician told me to stop reading the licences, or I'd have a stroke. The first computer I used was a CDC6500 running DualMACE at Purdue in 1974. I checked- Purdue OWNED the computer, they did not RENT it. >From there I went to a CDC6600 running Kronos 2.1 at Indiana University; I had a computer account for each of my classes, and one given me for donating my services as s student consultant. Additionally, I PAID $$$ for a commercial account so that I could print large-format lineprinter posters and sell them. > Kindly take your free software whine elsewhere. If you want to write > software and give it away that's your business. If someone else wants to > write software and sell right to use licenses that's their business. > Personally I both sell and give away the software I write, depending on the > program. I wrote nothing stating that I was looking for free software. How is it that you take not wanting to be ripped of to mean that I want something for free? The problem isn't that I don't understand the computer industry, it's that the computer industry has been taken over by robber barons. It happened during the 1980s; I recall it distinctly. Dang, I know I'm a prima donna, but if all the prima donnas stay off this list, I think it will get might darned quiet. respectfully submitted, -doug quebbeman

26 years, 3 months

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Free: Apollo DOMAIN/OS Software Distribution Tapes

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Actually, Domain/OS is one of Apollo's 3 operating systems... Apollo started back when AT&T wasn't licensing UNIX for commercial use, so they had to create their own UNIX clone, which was actually better than UNIX. This was called Aegis, later changed to be called Domain/OS. Later, when AT&T did start licensing UNIX, Apollo was smart enough to know that even though Aegis or Domain/OS, depending on what you called it, was better than UNIX, the AT&T standard was what mattered to people, so they licensed UNIX, and that became Domain/IX, and shortly afterward, HP bought Apollo and killed basically everything other than Prism (PA-Risc). Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 3 months

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Thinker Toys (was: KFC (was: Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> It was the timing problem... the failure rate (soft) for the alpha > particle thing was so low you'd see power hits and other gremlins > first. > > S100 system were prone to bus noise (even with wonderbus) so where a > card was installed could litterally mean fail/flakey/works for the same > card! Bus termination schemes were used to help but the 22 slot bus was > too long and a more modest 18 or 12 slot was always more reliable. > > Dram cards were by and large trouble as they were most sensitive to timing > problems. I always ran static for testing and some systems for that > reason. I never had the opportunity to work with a machine that was IEEE-696 compliant. I'm assuming you did (Danger Will Robinson!)... were compliant boards reliable? Do you know of any attempts to retrofit compliance onto existing S-100 designs? -dq

26 years, 3 months

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Yo

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

I think your sister has the right answer. Tell her to notify me of the tragic event and I'll bring a dumpster over. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, June 22, 2000 7:57 AM Subject: RE: Yo >> >> Every collector should have a will, and it should direct the >> disposition of their collection. Maybe the disposition is "sell it on >> eBay", maybe it's offer it on ClassicCmp", maybe it's "give it to >> Stanford"...or ? > >Since my only family is my sister, I told her "Just think, one day all of >this will be yours". To which she replied "Great... Which dumpster should I >put it in?" > >Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> >

26 years, 3 months

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Legal Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 22, 12:46, Owen Robertson wrote: > All this talk about RT-11, RSX-11M,RSTS/E licensing details is making me > wonder. If I acquired a PDP-11 of some kind, and it came with RSX-11M and/or > RT-11 and or/ RSTS/E, would I have to have a license? Legally, strictly, yes. However, I've been told off the record by two senior DEC staff in the UK that if I acquire a machine with the OS and don't use it for commercial purposs, they would turn a blind eye. > but is it essential in running the OS? Does the OS have > any way of checking for one? Nope. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 22, 12:38, R. D. Davis wrote: > Why are you sending Luzedoze e-mail to this list? Please either find > a way to send plain ASCII or delete Luzedoze from your system and > install something more useful that can send messages properly. Well, much as I dislike Outlook (depressed or otherwise), it actually is capable of sending plain text. You just need to make sure it's set to generate plain text (not HTML, RTF, or multipart/mixed) in some reasonable character set, for new messages, AND override the use of HTML/RTF/whatnot when replying. Besides, there are plenty of other Windows mailers besides Outlook; it's not a reason to go off the deep end. > However, you need to remember that not everyone here uses that Microsoft > rubbish, so you shouldn't be sending e-mail that requires the recipient > to do anything other than read it. True, in fact the Merrill Lynch survey I saw on CNN a little earlier today showed that less than three-quarters of people using Windows use Microsoft email software. Since only about 2/3 of PCs (in the loosest sense) run Windows, that means only about half use Outlook etc. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 3 months

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Tapes

by sring＠uslink.net

Does anyone know where I can locate blank computer cassette tapes for the Commodore, etc.? Music tapes are usually too long. From: "Stephanie Ring" sring(a)uslink.net

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 22, 8:18, Marvin wrote: > Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > > I see your msgs in a stretched font. Quite different from all the > > others. > > > > In the headers of your msg, we see:- > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined > > > > In the top toolbar when you are writing or replying to a msg. > > It will be set to user-defined. > > Set it to Western European (Windows) and it will revert to ISO-8859-1 > > which seems to be straight ASCII. > > Okay, I just changed it from user-defined to Western. Is this message coming > through okay? FWIW, I've been using Netscape for years with no problems that > *I* am aware of :). Yes. The headers in Marvin's message said "charset=us-ascii". But you ought to realise that ISO-8859-x is not ASCII; the lower 128 characters are the same but the remaining 128 (top bit set) are foreign-language characters and additional symbols -- ASCII is a 7-bit character code while the ISO 8859 ones are all 8-bit. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 3 months

1
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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Well, as long as the machine comes with a complete version of the > software installed, then there's no problem. The whole licensing > issue is pure lunacy. Someone initially paid a vast quantity of money > to Some Random Computer Manufacturer for the machine, then, got > charged another large sum of money for the software - the OS - needed > to use the machine. Both were products that have already been paid > for. Let's say you bought one of those newfangled automobiles that's > infested with lots of electronic circuitry, including computers with > firmware. Now, let's say you sell the car. If that firmware was > licensed like computer software, the person who bought the car from > you wouldn't be able to use it without being bilked out of a licencing > fee from the auto's manufacturer. What if books were treated like > software? This is just a way of extorting money from people; it > amounts to no more than legalized theft. Together, democracy and free enterprise constituted a severe paradigm shift for the robber barons, but eventually, they figured it out. So, if they're going to stand behind every tree on the highway, ready to exact from us a toll for any thing we want to do, then we have to figure out how to travel without using that highway, rendering their strong-arm tactics moot. -doug q

26 years, 3 months

1
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IBM System/38 Availible (Again)

by mrdos＠swbell.net

There is still a System/38 available in San Francisco. If anyone is interested, please contact Rbatist(a)aol.com . It works and comes with a tape drive and several disk drives.

26 years, 3 months

4
3
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Legal Question

by mrdos＠swbell.net

All this talk about RT-11, RSX-11M,RSTS/E licensing details is making me wonder. If I acquired a PDP-11 of some kind, and it came with RSX-11M and/or RT-11 and or/ RSTS/E, would I have to have a license? I know a license is legally required, but is it essential in running the OS? Does the OS have any way of checking for one? What is required for running the OS? I really don't know anything about the PDP-11 family. Thanks, Owen

26 years, 3 months

3
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Thinker Toys (was: KFC (was: Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > I am the proud owner of two Thinker Toys products, the Wunderbus, and > > the EconoRAM IV (hope that's the right model, this was one of those > > really EARLY dynamic RAM boards; the ceramic gold-topped versions of > > these chips worked fine, the but the plastic ones had trouble forgetting > > things when they got hit by cosmic rays). > > It was the gold eutectic weld that was the source of alpha particles > that were the concern at the time. The later problem was Dram timing > problems and there were fixes. Ah, I stand corrected... and that would explain why the system was always flaky with that board in, and stable without it (I was blaming the bus). So, knowing nothing about the half-life of the welding material, can you tell me, has the material in the welds decayed enough now that the board should operate in a more stable fashion? -dq

26 years, 3 months

2
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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 22, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > You have an Intel box? Eeew. > > It's OK. It's running Linux. Ahh. *whew* -Dave McGuire

26 years, 3 months

1
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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>At 12:40 PM 6/22/00 -0400, you wrote: >>It isn't, but Mentec will soon (I hope) have a hobbyist licensing program for >>RT-11, RSX-11M, RSX-11M+, and RSTS/E. Watch the "Hobbyist licensing" >>link on their "PDP-11"/"legacy systems" webpage at >> http://www.mentec.com/ >> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com >If they do this then the market for PDP-11's will go up by a large amount. >--Chuck IMHO it's not a matter of "If" but "When". There are some pots remaining to be stirred but the brew is *almost* done. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 3 months

1
0
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NCR model 3401 class 5451

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 21, Tony Duell wrote: > > > ps margin: +5%/normal/-5% > > > > What's a ps margin switch for? > > Power Supply Margin testing, I guess. Basically it runs the PSU (+5V > line, probably) at 5% over or under the 'right' value. If you have an > intermittant fault to trace, this may make it appear permanently so you > can track it down. Similarly, a machine that fails on either of the > margin settings is likely to _become_ unreliable even at the normal > voltage, so you can catch errors during preventive maintenance. Interestingly, both the Cray J90 and the YMP-EL (and possibly other models as well) have +- margin switches for their power regulators accessible on their front panels. -Dave McGuire

26 years, 3 months

4
4
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Thinker Toys (was: KFC (was: Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> BTW, I also have for sale a post-namechange machine from a company once > known as "Thinker Toys". $20 with local pickup for machine plus printer > plus terminal (missing keyboard). $30 for machine by itself. > HINT: KFC and Thinker Toys were both in Berkeley, and moved > south once they became successful. That would be Morrow Designs... George should've kept the Thinker Toys thing, and put a hit out on the Tinker Toys lawyers. I am the proud owner of two Thinker Toys products, the Wunderbus, and the EconoRAM IV (hope that's the right model, this was one of those really EARLY dynamic RAM boards; the ceramic gold-topped versions of these chips worked fine, the but the plastic ones had trouble forgetting things when they got hit by cosmic rays). -dq

26 years, 3 months

3
2
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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>On Thu, Jun 22, 2000 at 05:51:17PM +0200, Frederik Meerwaldt wrote: >> Hi! >> [..] >> > Should I rescue this machine? What OS do I need to acquire for it? >> Sure!!! I don't know if 4.2BSD or 4.3BSD run on a PDP11/73, but in fact >> RT-11 does. It is now Freeware. >> Ciao, >> Freddy > >Since when is/was RT-11 freeware? It isn't, but Mentec will soon (I hope) have a hobbyist licensing program for RT-11, RSX-11M, RSX-11M+, and RSTS/E. Watch the "Hobbyist licensing" link on their "PDP-11"/"legacy systems" webpage at http://www.mentec.com/ > One of the hardest things about collecting >PDP-11s is getting OS licenses for anything but the older versions of >UNIX... 2.11BSD is the newest version and getting a hobbyist license for it is now easier than ever. See http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ for the SCO license deal (now free). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 3 months

2
1
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VT100's and RX01 in Kansas City

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

> In my wanderings I just came across 2 VT100's, one of which doesn't power > up the other I can't get to to test yet. I haven't found the keyboards. > I also came across a "rack mountable" RX01. Basically a single 8 inch > disk drive is just below on the left side of a 23 inch wide 3 inch high > controller box. If there is any interest they will probably take $5 for > the RX01 and $5 for both VT100's and I can arrange packing/shipping if you > pay for it. > VT100-AA case is yellowed with some scuffs. It seems to have both RS-232 > and 20ma connector on the back. RX01 has a 8 inch floppy diskette in it > labeled "VMS 4.7 boot floppy working copy". > > Mike > Wandering computer scrounger

26 years, 3 months

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KFC (was: Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> > TRIVIA QUESTION: What name did "Kentucky Fried Computers" change its name >> > to? >Jim, I'm disappointed. You, of all nerds, should know the correct answer >is Northstar Horizon. It's time to start taking a daily dose of Ginko >Biloba :) Still wrong! It was not the NS* Horizon as the name change preceeds it by not less than two years. Keep in mind I have the NS* MDS-A Minifloppy I'd bought before the NS* in late 1976 and KFC had long since been forgotten. If memory serves KFC was a 6800 based machine. Allison

26 years, 3 months

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Yo

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Ooops, sorry, was supposed to be private... > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 9:03 AM > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Yo > > > Steve- > > Any luck digging out that Prime stuff? > > -dq >

26 years, 3 months

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Yo

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Steve- Any luck digging out that Prime stuff? -dq

26 years, 3 months

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KFC (was: Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > TRIVIA QUESTION: What name did "Kentucky Fried Computers" > > > change its name to? > > > (hint: I'm asking $100 with local pickup for one of their > > > post-namechange computers with the wood in good condition) > > Processor Technology? > No. > > Are you selling a SOL for $100? > Sorry. If I had one right now, I might. I'm still not certain anyone has answered this, so I'll try again... COuld it be a Scelbi? -dq p.s. not looking for a Sol, have a working one and two unfinished motherboards, one likely to go up on E-Bay soon, although I may solicit it for trade here first.

26 years, 3 months

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A little more Am2900 learning/evaluation kit info

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> -> While I'd really like to lay my hands on one of these, I > -> suppose if I wanted to get daring, I could just pull the > -> ROMs from the Prime and burn my own (The Prime CPUs were > -> built using the AM2900 family; > > Same as all the Microdata systems. Wasn't Prime also Pick based > systems? Prime sold a subsystem called Information which was more-or-less a clone of Pick, and from the mid-80s on, this may have been its best-selling product (I'm certain it was in the UK). But prior and subsequent to that, Primes were very prevalent as university timesharing systems, and laboratory support systems. The Primos operating system had its initial roots in an older OS they called DOS, which had some legacy from another Prime OS, RTOS, which in turn was a port or re-implementation of Olert/4 and/or SAMTRAN, a Honeywell Controls OS funded by NASA. Beginning with the P400 processor, Prime systems were 16-bit data/32-bit address versions of the Honeywell Multics architecture (which was 18-bit data/36-bit address). -doug q

26 years, 3 months

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Yo

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> > Every collector should have a will, and it should direct the > disposition of their collection. Maybe the disposition is "sell it on > eBay", maybe it's offer it on ClassicCmp", maybe it's "give it to > Stanford"...or ? Since my only family is my sister, I told her "Just think, one day all of this will be yours". To which she replied "Great... Which dumpster should I put it in?" Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 3 months

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DECassetes and HPIL/HPIB available

by schoedel＠kw.igs.net

NOTE: I am currently busy and will probably not reply promptly to email. To those already waiting for replies on other things, my apologies; I'll respond as soon as I get spare time. I have 200 DECassettes (TU-60 tapes) on hand; I want to keep a few in case I ever get a TU-60, but would like the others to find good homes. They are 'new' in sealed bags (though as they are obviously old magnetic media and I don't know how they have been stored, this is no guarantee they will be usable). Ideally I would like to trade the lot for something else interesting. The things I'm looking for that a TU-60 owner would be most likely to have available are an RL11 and RL02 packs, but if you want the tapes and have anything else to go, consider making an offer. Failing that, the tapes will be available for sale, to TU-60 users only, at some price not far above shipping cost. I also have a number of (used) HP-IL to HP-IB interfaces (HP 82169A) available. -- Kevin Schoedel <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net>

26 years, 3 months

2
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A little more Am2900 learning/evaluation kit info

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Skimming through the databook again, I've found a little more > info on the Am2900 learning/evaluation kit. While I'd really like to lay my hands on one of these, I suppose if I wanted to get daring, I could just pull the ROMs from the Prime and burn my own (The Prime CPUs were built using the AM2900 family; some models had a writable control store; not my 2455, of course). In case anyone wonders why... it would be really cool to spend five years trying to redesign the Prime CPUs to eliminate the bugs that plagued so many of us for so long... Not much market for them, of course... -dq

26 years, 3 months

2
1
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(Fwd) VAX 11/750

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

What is this HTML garbage?!? I'm responding to this over Yahoo and I'm stuck in this applet that wants to format my mail for me. :-P Anyway; I'm in Columbus and have already responded to this guy. I already have a couple of 11/750s (8Mb and 12Mb w/ various disks), so I'm not interested in shelling out a lot of coin for another, but I'll see what he wants for it before I decide what to do. -ethan David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> wrote: Well I'd LOVE to have this but can't arrange it right now so if anyone is interested please contact the person below. Damn, and I so want to play with VMS. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Send reply to: "Lopez-Stickney" From: "Lopez-Stickney" Subject: VAX 11/750 Date sent: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:33:56 -0400 We have a VAX 11/750 system for sale (or trade) in Central Ohio. It includes the disk drive, printer, a DECwriter, manuals (boxes!!), and a variety of software. This lot fills a full-size Chevy van. If possible, the preference is to sell the whole thing. estickney Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.

26 years, 3 months

1
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Zork on Apple II, wanted for PDP-11 (was Re: Thrift Store find: Apple IIgs)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> wrote: > There is an alternative. Before Infocom was even formed, a DEC Field > Engineer person (I think fondly known as "The Translator") translated the > original MDL (pronounced "muddle") (which predates ZIL) into FORTRAN. Bob Supnik. He and I have worked together on his line of PDP emulator programs. I helped find a bug with the rp driver that surfaced when trying to run 2.9BSD on an emulated PDP-11. There was a poorly documented feature that writing to a read-only register would instigate an interrupt that was a critical feature of the device probing facet of the BSD startup sequence, but that is another story. > Playing one of these older versions would suit the vintage of your PDP-11 > better, IMHO, than running one of the later Infocom ZIL version (even > though those might be closer to the original source). True, but cooler than _that_ is to run *commercial* game software for the PDP-11. I've run the FORTRAN version on various ancient DEC machines. it's the version that is data-file-compatible with the later products that I really want to play with. -ethan (translator of the MDL sources to Inform - Grab a copy at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/zdungeon/ ) ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

26 years, 3 months

1
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Free: Apollo DOMAIN/OS Software Distribution Tapes

by cube1＠home.com

Please read ALL of this message CAREFULLY before responding. Incomplete/erroneous replies will be directed to /dev/null, with or without a reply based on how busy I am and how I feel that day. 8-) Requests for further information may not be responded to quickly. I have obtained, due to Y2k related activities and general cleanup, a VERY LIMITED number of copies of original software distribution tapes for the Apollo Domain/OS operating system and some product support kits. (I also have some other software, but due to licensing, I am not comfortable making that available. However, if you have NFS, Omniback, CC or DPCE software for Apollo Domain/OS and are having problems reading your tape(s), if you scan in a copy of your label and send it to me, we can see if we can arrange something). I am making them available at no cost, except that the REQUESTER PAYS THE PACKAGING AND SHIPPING COSTS (usually just a pound or two). The prepayment will be based on the estimate from the UPS web site. If you send me too much, I will send the difference by other means after I ship, if it is more than $2.00 -- otherwise I will not bother). I am making them available to people who (priority order) (USE THIS CODE BELOW) PRIORITY CODE: 1. Has an HP/Apollo Domain machine (proof required, including node-id, preference would be a picture), but does not have tapes (you are on the honor system for that part) 2. Is writing a simulator and needs software (some proof required, such as design documentation, compiler headers, ...) (Having been in that boat myself, I have empathy for anyone in that situation. But, I'd be surprised to find anyone in this situation for an Apollo Domain/OS machine). 3. An education institution (this would really surprise me, but you never know) 4. Has an HP/Apollo Domain machine (proof required -- see above), has tapes, but would like a backup set.2 Shipping code (see below) PICKUP: If you can pick the tapes up. Gets you 1 notch higher priority. SHIP: If you need to have them shipped to you. (You pre-pay shipping). Available only to folks in the US and places UPS will ship to with no headache for me (again, these are free, after all). Again, the requester must PREPAY SHIPPING based on an estimate from the UPS web site. The tapes are little used, and in their original plastic boxes with their original labels. The tapes date from around 1990 - 1992. ( I read thru a set of tapes like these to do a software install last year without a problem, but I can make NO GUARANTEE that the tapes are readable. (after all, they are free). Requests for tapes should be sent via email. PLEASE READ *ALL* of the following information to the end of this message CAREFULLY. Request MUST include the following filled out (please cut and paste into your message) Request MUST include "DOMAIN/OS TAPE REQUEST" in the subject of the e-mail, and should be addressed to: c u b e 1 (at) h o m e (dot) c o m ************************ NAME: Your Name ADDRESS: Your Street Address / City / State / Zip / Country routing code EMAIL: Your e-mail address SET: The Tape set number(s) you would like. (See Below) Format: #<digit> PRIORITY: Your priority code (see above) (#1, #2, #3 or #4) SHIPPING: (See above: PICKUP or SHIP) NODE-ID: Your Apollo Domain Node ID (see above) (Attach GIF/JPEG if possible) ************************* Requests should be submitted before 7/5/2000. I need to allow some time for priorities to be properly registered. I will ship when I am good and ready, probably in July or August. (After all, these are free -- but I do want to get them out of my hair). Generally YOU MAY ONLY REQUEST 1 SET. Exception: If you request one of set 10, 11 or 12 you may also pick one of set 13,14 and/or one of set 15,16 Note: If you have a 68040 based machine, SR10.2 is useless. You need SR10.3, including PSK8 (see below) SET INFORMATION *** READ CAREFULLY *** (Specify above) SETS #1, #2 and #3 Apollo DOMAIN/OS SR10.2 Boot tape: 017286-001 3 software tapes: 017277-001, -002 and -003 (This is a complete operating system) SET #4 As with sets #1, #2 and #3 PLUS DOMAIN/OS SR10.2 INCRA_2 018777-001 (patch tape) (THIS IS JUST A SINGLE TAPE - NOT A COMPLETE OPERATING SYSTEM) SETS #5, #6, #7, #8, #9 Apollo DOMAIN/OS SR10.4 Boot Tape: 019593-001 Software tapes: 019594-001, -002, -003, -004 (This is a complete operating system) SETS #10, #11, #12 Apollo DOMAIN/OS SR10.3 Boot Tape: 018847-001 Software tapes: 018848-001, -002, -003, -004 (This is a complete operating system) SETS #13, #14 Product Support Kit Q3-91 for Apollo DOMAIN/OS SR10.3 THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE OPERATING SYSTEM. YOU WOULD ALSO NEED SET #10, #11 or #12 Boot Tape: 019439-001 Software tapes: 019437-001, -002 SETS #15, #16 Product Support Kit PSK8 THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE OPERATING SYSTEM. YOU WOULD ALSO NEED SET #10, #11 or #12 Boot Tape: 019376-001 PSK8 Software: 019374-001 PSK8 68040 Software: 019362-001 Again, PLEASE read thru ALL of this message BEFORE submitting your request. Hope some of you find this useful. Jay Jaeger The Computer Collection. Visit: http://members.home.com/thecomputercollection

26 years, 3 months

5
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Thrift Store find: Apple IIgs

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

I have a variety of Apple II machines (I used to make my living on them long, long ago) and my little brother, an avid thrifter, found a IIgs for me this week. ISTR there are multiple varieties; this one appears to be fairly old. It has a memory card inside with 256K of RAM soldered down, and spaces for another .75Mb. The ROM is version 1.0. Just playing around, I figured out how to get into the config menu and set background colors, 80 column, etc. I happened to have an external 5.25" Laser drive I got with my $15 IIc+ and was able to boot up the only DOS 3.3 disk I could find - Zork I. So... now that I have two machines that want to have 3.5" drives and no copies of DOS 3.3 on that medium, is it possible to aquire it anywhere? I have Macs, etc., so I can make a 3.5" disk from an Apple disk image if that's what it takes. Also, are there any ways I can expand this puppy? I happen to have a couple of old Apple double disk drives (the kind that came with the IIe); does anyone know of a diagram to make an adapter for the 19-pin connector that the newer computers take? Thanks, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

26 years, 3 months

5
5
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Mousepad $71

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Did anyone else see the NeXT mousepad that sold for $71 on ebay at 355310479 ? Now I feel ok I'm not the one who is crazy. John Keys

26 years, 3 months

1
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New Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well the week back from vacation has been pretty good I hit 3 auction and came away with a few good deals. 1. HP 6300 series 650/A 2. HP 9000/300 3. HP 9144 4. HP 6000/670H - 4 of them mounted in a nice rack. 5. TI99 color monitor the size of a TV and looks just like an old 19" model. 6. AMD AM 2900 Evaluation & Learning kit. A nice single board computer with the box but no manuals. There was a sheet titled "Am2900 Kit Programming Work Sheet". Anyone have more info on this unit ? 7. 2 - Toshiba T5200/100's that both work great. 8. Zenith SuperSport 286 with carrying case, will not boot up. 9. Grid GridCase3 not working 10. An old Informer in a nice case. Not tested yet. 11. Compaq portable III in carrying case, not tested yet. 12. digital LA50-RA printer. 13. digital VT240 model VS240-B 14. Tandy 4000 PC There were several van loads of items that are not yet 10 years old but I added them to my collection from the first two auctions. At a City/school auction today I won the bid on over 80 computers, ext floppy drives (Apple all types), ext. hard drives for Mac's, many keyboards, monitors, and many other computer items all for $1. Sorry to say I had to leave a large amount of this stuff, there were all types of early Mac's and PC's. My poor van was overloaded with computers this evening and I got home at 9:30pm in the dark so I was not able to unload too much tonight and will have take off work for half a day to unload my Van and go back for more of the items. I hope to have a more complete list by the weekend and will post the older items. John Keys

26 years, 3 months

3
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Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0: September 30 - October 1

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > On another note: Looks like my relationship with embedded computing is > > coming to an end. I'll be changing jobs soon. I used to get out to the > > west coast for fall ESC which would hopefully "match up" with VCF. It would > > have worked this year, but... Oh well. Anyway, is anything else professional > > going on in the area the week before or after VCF 4.0 that I could possibly > > talk a boss into shipping me across the country for? > > Bill, just for you, I'll check the schedules for the convention centers in > the area and see what's cooking for that timeframe :) I meant to speak up sooner when this thread began, but... Louisville, Kentucky, is an ideal site for any convention. We are located in the heart of United States, we have ample convention facilities (but don't choose the weekend where we have the Future Farmers, NHRA Nationals, etc). We have great entertainment facilities (food, music, horse racing), a riverboat casino within a 20-minute drive, a Deja Vu (and plenty of similar facilties), scenic riverboat cruises (these without gambling), a bridge that goes nowhere but stimulates endless debate. What we appear not to have are these places I hear about that have piles upon piles of old computer equipment. At least, if it's here, it's staying hidden from me. Just a thought... -dq

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I'm interested in hearing how others on this list afford to maintain and expand their collections. Especially people like John R. Keys. 8-D Basically I take money out of my budgest and buy something when it strikes me. Lately, Ive actually turned down some of the more popular computer models because I either have one or more, or space is at a premium. I also pay monthly for small off-site storage to hold some machines as I'm reaching over 150 computers+accessories now. Is it feasible to start a non-profit org to help pay for some of the costs one incurs while enjoying this hobby or how would one solicit donations? I am reluctant to become too commercial or plaster my domain with ads. hurry, hurry step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! www.nothingtodo.org

26 years, 3 months

7
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AT&T 6300 with monitor, up for grabs, almost free + shipping

by whdawson＠mlynk.com

Hello all, First the pictures, then the story: http://www.wpic.com/whdawson/classiccmp/ATT6300front.jpg http://www.wpic.com/whdawson/classiccmp/ATT6300rear.jpg I stopped in the local Hidden Treasures (actual name) store a couple of weeks ago and noticed this on the shelf, minus keyboard. I've been a regular visitor there for the last several years, and when I pointed out to Terry, the new manager, that this system was kinda useless without the AT&T keyboard, he told me to just take it, as in free, because it was probably going to end up in the dumpster anyway since no one seemed interested in it and this would save him the effort. The power supply fan runs, and little else. No cursor, no boot, no drive activity other than it initializing, no nothing, although the AT&T monitor appears OK since when I turn off the system I get green all over and retrace lines as the power collapses. Same if I unplug the monitor when the system is powered up. The monitor is powered from the 6300 and has a jumper from the PS to the video board, standard 6300. Here's what's included: AT&T monitor, no screen burn, cord storage in swivel base. AT&T 6300 with: PC1050 motherboard, markings of 0091-0-5-00 REV P4, AT&T 227692 T 10 CPU3 9/84, BIOS REV 1.21, FCC DVR7NICPU3; 8086-2 CPU, memory chips are MOSTEK MK4564-N-15; WD1002-WX1 controller; Seagate ST-225; OLIVETTI Video PCB, full length, markings of CRT 313M; OLIVETTI Bus converter; 5.25" floppy drive; power supply; etc. This system is in very good to excellent condition. The computer is dusty inside, but even the felt feet are still on it. The CRT case is not yellowed. The story I got was that an elderly lady had donated it to the store. I'd prefer to sell this system as it is, complete, for $10.00 plus shipping (2 boxes). If you are only interested in the monitor, $10.00 plus shipping also. If no one is interested in the 6300 intact, then I will part it out, 1.2 x shipping for whatever assemblies you want from it. Please email me off list and let me know what you need. Anyone who wants the whole enchilada gets first dibs. If no one does, parts seekers are on a FCFS basis. I'm offering this to the list because I have enough going on and enough systems to restore to keep me busy for the next 10 years. Yes, I can probably find a keyboard and can also likely fix it, but I don't see anything wrong with some systems ending up as parts donors for others. I'll post to the list on the status of this as necessary. For shipping purposes, my zip is 15301. Bill Dawson whdawson(a)mlynk.com <mailto:whdawson@mlynk.com> ?

26 years, 3 months

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KFC (was: Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Hans Franke wrote: > > KFC ? > > Kentucky Festival of ol' Computers ? > > :)) (I know it's a lamer, I just cundn't relist ... low willpower) > > TRIVIA QUESTION: What name did "Kentucky Fried Computers" > change its name to? > (hint: I'm asking $100 with local pickup for one of their > post-namechange computers with the wood in good condition) Processor Technology? Are you selling a SOL for $100? Hell, I was intending on selling an unfinished moitherboard for that price... and a complete set of docs for more... -dq

26 years, 3 months

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HTML in mail

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Chuck: > > HTML is rude in mail messages sent to this list, just as it s rude to walk > > around nude on a beach that has not embraced nudity. So that is the bottom > > line. We may be HTML prudes, but we're open about it. > > While I agree with your ideas about HTML, this example is just ill > constructed. This may be rude in your culture, but over here, nobody > even recognizes such a behavior as 'rude' (Well, maybe if you select > some RV Park beach ...). In munich you will even find naked people > cheering the sun within public parks or along the Isar River, in the > very middle of the City ... > > Examples, especialy when comparing to human behaviour are extrem > vulnerable to cultural differences :) However, one can grow up in a particular culture, only to find out after-the-fact what is considered by *other people* to be rude... case in point: I haven't flown much, but ever since deregulation of the airlines over hear, I've had numberous people tell me that flying didn't have the prestige it once did; instead, it is like riding the bus. So on one particular flight out of San Juan where most people (apparantly) were complaining it was too cold, it was, for me, far too hot, and I removed my shirt. Only my shirt. Boy, I'm still hearing about that one from my co-workers... 8D -dq

26 years, 3 months

4
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POST code for IBM P-70

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 1:35 PM Subject: POST code for IBM P-70 > Can anyone tell me what the POST codes 165 and 221 mean on an IBM PS2 >P-70? The CMOS backup battery is good and I've tried to boot from the >reference disk but it won't load anything from the disk even though it does >read it briefly. > > Joe > > According to my references: 221 is a ROM to RAM parity error on the System board. Has someone perhaps put non-parity SIMMs in that P70? 165 is a Configuration error. Try setting the date and time and running the System autoconfiguration. I would try putting known good parity SIMMs in the P70 and then try to run the Reference and Diagnostics disks again. Cheers, Mark.

26 years, 3 months

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(Fwd) VAX 11/750

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Well I'd LOVE to have this but can't arrange it right now so if anyone is interested please contact the person below. Damn, and I so want to play with VMS. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Send reply to: "Lopez-Stickney" <estickne(a)columbus.rr.com> From: "Lopez-Stickney" <estickne(a)columbus.rr.com> Subject: VAX 11/750 Date sent: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:33:56 -0400 We have a VAX 11/750 system for sale (or trade) in Central Ohio. It includes the disk drive, printer, a DECwriter, manuals (boxes!!), and a variety of software. This lot fills a full-size Chevy van. If possible, the preference is to sell the whole thing. estickney ------- End of forwarded message ------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

>I'm interested in hearing how others on this list afford >to maintain and >expand their collections. Especially >people like John R. Keys. 8-D >Basically I take money out >of my budgest and buy something when it strikes >me. >Lately, Ive actually turned down some of the more >popular computer >models because I either have one or >more, or space is at a premium. I also >pay monthly for >small off-site storage to hold some machines as I'm > >reaching over 150 computers+accessories now. Is it >feasible to start a >non-profit org to help pay for some >of the costs one incurs while enjoying >this hobby or how >would one solicit donations? I am reluctant to become > >too commercial or plaster my domain with ads. Most of my finds about, and buy, for that matter, either through contacts on the internet or through a local thrift store (pickings have been pretty slim lately :( ). ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 3 months

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POST code for IBM P-70

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In my situations, incompatible memory usually posts a 225 or 221, but hard to say what's happening here. The 165 comes up usually because the .adf file for an installed adaptor card is missing. That will need to be cleared before the computer will boot from the hard drive. The P70/75 had issues with the floppy drive since it's mounted vertically but hopefully wont be a problem here. try using a cleaning disk on it. goto http://members.aol.com/mcapage0 choosing the PS2 area and download peter's adaptor card ID disk. any ps2 should boot that disk. Another thing i've noticed is dont access newly created reference disks on win9x machines. Ive discovered that sometimes doing a DIR on them renders them unbootable for some reason. have fun with that P70. it's a neat machine. www.nothingtodo.org In a message dated Wed, 21 Jun 2000 4:34:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Mark Gregory" <mgregory(a)vantageresearch.com> writes: << -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 1:35 PM Subject: POST code for IBM P-70 > Can anyone tell me what the POST codes 165 and 221 mean on an IBM PS2 >P-70? The CMOS backup battery is good and I've tried to boot from the >reference disk but it won't load anything from the disk even though it does >read it briefly. > > Joe > > According to my references: 221 is a ROM to RAM parity error on the System board. Has someone perhaps put non-parity SIMMs in that P70? 165 is a Configuration error. Try setting the date and time and running the System autoconfiguration. I would try putting known good parity SIMMs in the P70 and then try to run the Reference and Diagnostics disks again. Cheers, Mark. >>

26 years, 3 months

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POST code for IBM P-70

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

165 Systems options not set - (Run Setup) - Card ID mismatch 221 ROM to RAM copy error Run the reference disk and see if that fixes it. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, 22 June 2000 5:38 Subject: POST code for IBM P-70 > Can anyone tell me what the POST codes 165 and 221 mean on an IBM PS2 >P-70? The CMOS backup battery is good and I've tried to boot from the >reference disk but it won't load anything from the disk even though it does >read it briefly. > > Joe > >

26 years, 3 months

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Wanted: Dranetz 626 Manual

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

...Header pretty much says it all. Just nabbed a Dranetz 626 recording power disturbance monitor and got no docs with it... -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

26 years, 3 months

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Wanted: N* HD controller / drive

by r.stek＠snet.net

Ia there anyone out there who has a NorthStar HD controller and/or compatible drive they are willing to part with? I have been looking to add one to my Horizon but haven't found anything. I have a fair number of S-100 boards and other goodies I'm illing to trade. I would even (shudder!) pay cash if I had to. Bob Stek Saver of Lost SOLs

26 years, 3 months

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Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0: September 30 - October 1

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Louisville, Kentucky, is an ideal site for any convention. We are > > located in the heart of United States, we have ample convention > > facilities (but don't choose the weekend where we have the > > Future Farmers, NHRA Nationals, etc). We have great entertainment > > facilities (food, music, horse racing), a riverboat casino within > > a 20-minute drive, a Deja Vu (and plenty of similar facilties), > > scenic riverboat cruises (these without gambling), a bridge that > > goes nowhere but stimulates endless debate. > > KFC ? > Kentucky Festival of ol' Computers ? > > :)) (I know it's a lamer, I just cundn't relist ... low willpower) Better than Kentucky Fried Computers... but we have those, too. 8D > Is there no snow in January ? > If yes, please go ahead and start organizeing. <WHOOSH> Doug, having previously thought he was standing in a row of assembled veterans of olf hardware, suddenly finds everyone has taken a strategic step backwards, leaving him the leader! I could help with some logisitic details, but organizing something like this is currently beyond my 43-year old competence. To answer the other question, we had snow in January 2000, the first in quite some time. Usually it just rains all winter. It also snowed on Christmas Day, again, the first since perhaps 1977/78. I will make inquiries to the convention & tourism bureau as to the schedule of other conventions. Horse Racing is on vacation in January, however, in case anyone had their heart set on it. -doug q

26 years, 3 months

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HP 715/33 available - Austin, TX

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

(I apologize if this breaks the 10-year rule; I *think* this box is about as old as a SS1, or darn close to it - couldnt find a date of mfg..) I've got a barebones (no HD, no RAM, no kb/mouse) HP/Apollo 715/33 available in Austin, Texas. You can find specifics on it at http://parisc.workstations.org/systems.html and http://parisc.workstations.org/systems/715_scorpio.html Nice little PA-RISC box; however, I just have no use at all for any HP stuff. Will trade for anything DEC/VAX related (literally, anything - make a halfway serious offer, you might be surprised) or will even possibly give it away if someone has a good enough need/reason why I should. I just need it out of the way. I'm looking for VAXstation (3100, 4000-VLC, etc) machines and hardware, BTW. Bill -- +--------------------+-------------------+ | Bill Bradford | Austin, Texas | +--------------------+-------------------+ | mrbill(a)sunhelp.org | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | +--------------------+-------------------+

26 years, 3 months

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A little more Am2900 learning/evaluation kit info

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4731 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000621/ab34cae4/at…

26 years, 3 months

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Stag PP28 documentation query

by elvey＠hal.com

Sorry, ment to send to John only. My finger is faster than my brain. Dwight

26 years, 3 months

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Using DECmate III from terminal

by rdd＠smart.net

Is it possible to use a DECmate III from a terminal if one has no monitor or keyboard for it? Since it's in the PDP-8 family, can it run OS/8? BTW, Does anyone have any stories of favorite PDP-8 or Decmate hacks, and, has anyone here used a DECmate for any music or sound synthesis applications? -- R. D. Davis rdd(a)perqlogic.com http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 410-744-4900

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I get an allowance. All of my computer-related purchases come out of that, except if it's something for my wife's machine, in which case it comes out of our general budget (which doesn't really exist, but we pretend). I'm not aquiring many systems these days; I'm trying to concentrate on getting the systems I have now in some decent shape-- so mostly parts and docs, and junk. Since most of the systems I have are not considered 'investment grade', I can still get most of what I need pretty cheaply (MFM drives-- $1, for example). It gets expensive when I have to buy a part that's still used alot in the 'mainstream' (SCSI CD-ROM's, for example). Almost all of my machines occupy my basement-- the rest occupy a small corner of my otherwise full garage. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years, 3 months

2
1
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Tek 4014/5 emulation

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 16, William Donzelli wrote: > > Don't care about the 99% anyway, and what you're saying is, that I need > > a 2 GHz Strontium, running Winblows to talk to this group tomorrow ? > > No, not at all. The question I posed is if anyone is writing mailers for > the older systems so they can handle HTML properly. Again, is this a blanket statement that anything that isn't an Intel box running Windows is an "older system"? As to the question...yes, many modern mailers for non-Windows systems (old systems and new systems alike) deal with HTML just fine. I think the animosity toward HTMLized email (at least for me) comes from these points: 1) It's just not necessary for effective communications. 2) It's a waste of bandwidth and system resources. 3) Technical people generally want genuine functionality to prevail over "flash"...which is why many (most) technical people in the industry (Visual Basic programmers don't count) don't have Windows boxes on their desks if they have anything to say about it. 4) It's a clear outgrowth of the overcommercialization of the Internet, in which uneducated users think the World Wide Web *IS* the Internet, thus they try to cram the World Wide Web into everything they do, and conversely, cram everything they do into the World Wide Web. -Dave McGuire

26 years, 3 months

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Did you see...

by bill＠chipware.com

I don't really want to start another "ebay good/ebay bad" argument, but did everybody see that an ADM-3A just sold on ebay for $355 US!?!? I have two in good working and cosmetic condition that I got from a bank some years ago, including the little panels and screws that cover the option dip switches. I alos have docs. How many more are out there, just on this list?

26 years, 3 months

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Blinking lights hidden

by rdd＠smart.net

Something's been puzzling me: when I look at my CDC SMD drive, the NCR applications processor, some smaller SMD drives, LEDs in my 11/44, etc., there's something I just don't understand. Why did companies begin hiding blinking lights, status displays, etc. behind covers, in places behind the front panel that aren't obvious at first glance, hidden in boards in a card cage, etc.? -- R. D. Davis rdd(a)perqlogic.com http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 410-744-4900

26 years, 3 months

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NCR model 3401 class 5451

by rdd＠smart.net

Greetings, is anyone here familiar with an NCR model 3401, class 5451 "application processor"? On a hand-written label on the front of the machine there's a description of the memory in it: 8MB, 145ns. This box has the following switches on the front panel, in addition to the power switch: Station ID (two thumbwheels) Load options: local/aux disk/tape primary OS/alt OS BCD restart/system reset diag port: on/off mode: normal/diagnostic ps margin: +5%/normal/-5% On the back of the machine are the following connectors: LS link (low speed link?): pos 0, pos1, pos2 (9-pin) Diagostic port (25-pin - RS232 port?) System bus: channel A, channel B (9-pin) HS link (high speed linl?): pos 4, pos 5, pos6, pos7 (9-pin) One interesting thing about this system is a board labeled "writeable control store" - does anyone know it this is user microprogrammable? On this board are about 45 AMD (I think) 8648 ICs and about 27 8651 ICs, in addition to what I think may be EEPROMs (Fairchild MB7142H), as well as morotola 8644A, 8644B, 8648 and 8649 chips and a few other ICs. Attached to this board is a other board that is apparently the main part of the CPU with about 6 (from what I recall) square ICs, about 1" square, with heat-sinks that I haven't figured out how to remove yet to see the part numbers. Did anyone here purchase the machine like this that was listed on e-bay? Another apparently related NCR box that appeas to connect to the SMD drive only has the following indentification on it: "class H6830-STD1-01-46." Coming out the back are three cables: one that looks like it's got about 50 conductors in it, and two that appear to have about 20 to 25 conductors (these are just my guesses, haven't counted them). There are also two 50-pin connectors. I think this connects to the hard disk, but I can't figure out how, or if, it connects to the model 3401. Is anyone here familiar with the above equipment? -- R. D. Davis rdd(a)perqlogic.com http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 410-744-4900 -- R. D. Davis rdd(a)perqlogic.com http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 410-744-4900

26 years, 3 months

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Mark your calendars for VCF 4.0: September 30 - October 1

by vcf＠siconic.com

VCF 4.0 is tentatively scheduled for Saturday, September 30 - Sunday, October 1. The venue this year in the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. More details to come! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 3 months

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POST code for IBM P-70

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Can anyone tell me what the POST codes 165 and 221 mean on an IBM PS2 P-70? The CMOS backup battery is good and I've tried to boot from the reference disk but it won't load anything from the disk even though it does read it briefly. Joe

26 years, 3 months

2
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HP-1000E PSU

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net> wrote: > One slight problem: I'm told that the PSU is bad. Upon removing the > cover from the PSU, I noticed that there are three plug-in boards in > the PSU, and one empty PCB connector, the second one back from the > front. Is this circuit board supposed to be missing? I've not teted > the PSU yet, as I didn't know if doing so with this (optional? a > regulator for a voltage this system doesn't need?) board removed will > damage it. Is it safe to power it up with this board missing? Very likely. I pulled the 1000E Installation and Service Manual (HP p/n 02109-90015, dated Nov 1979) and it would appear that the board your power supply is missing is p/n 5061-1349, the battery backup board, which is only present in 1000Es with the battery backup option. To confirm this, there should be another board, 5061-1351, in another slot in the power supply -- this is a jumper board that is used in place of 5061-1348, the battery charger board, when the battery backup option is not present. I think you'll find this latter board in the slot closer to the front. Looks like the installer is expected to adjust the power supply with it installed in the computer. Test points are on the crossover assembly (A6) that is visible when you remove the top cover, and the main adjustment is the +5V ADJ potentiometer that is visible on the power supply board that is partially exposed when you lower the front cover: it's the one that is under the LOCK/OPERATE switch. Supply voltages are: supply v max cur upper lim lower lim test point +5V I/O 50A 5.25Vdc 5.00Vdc A6 +5V +5V M 4.5A 5.25Vdc 5.00Vdc A6 +5M +12V I/O 2.5A 12.6Vdc 11.4Vdc A6 +12V +12V M 2.0A 12.6Vdc 11.4Vdc A6 +12 M -2V I/O 4.0A -2.2Vdc -1.8Vdc A6 -2V -12V I/O 2.0A -12.6Vdc -11.4Vdc n/a -12V M 250mA -16Vdc -9Vdc A6 -12M (unregulated) +30V I/O 250mA 42Vdc 22Vdc A6 J2 pin 4 (unregulated) The general thing to do at initial checkout is to adjust the +5V ADJ pot 'til the first of these is at +5.15 +/-0.05 volts, then check the other voltages to make sure they're within range. OK, so what about troubleshooting? There's a flowchart, which I'm not going to try to turn into ASCII, but here's the first question after you turn the machine on: are fans running? Beyond that...well, this flowchart looks like it's intended to help you troubleshoot to board level and in some cases transistor level. So supposing the fans are running, the next questions are whether +5V is present at the crossover board test point, and whether it is adjustable as described above. Feel free to ask questions, I'll keep the manual out for the next few days. -Frank McConnell

26 years, 3 months

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I'm interested in hearing how others on this list afford to > maintain and expand their collections. Especially people like > John R. Keys. 8-D Basically I take money out of my budgest > and buy something when it strikes me. Lately, Ive actually > turned down some of the more popular computer models because > I either have one or more, or space is at a premium. I also > pay monthly for small off-site storage to hold some machines > as I'm reaching over 150 computers+accessories now. Is it > feasible to start a non-profit org to help pay for some of > the costs one incurs while enjoying this hobby or how would > one solicit donations? I am reluctant to become too > commercial or plaster my domain with ads. Ok... what you said... (in other words, ditto...) plus: I rob Peter to buy Paul... I sell family heirlooms (not yet, but it could happen) I sell items from the collection that mean less now than when I acquired them. I look for one-off consulting jobs that involve little or no work and put a small stipend in my pocket. I know when the yearly bonus is coming, and make certain I make the grade. I eat TV dinners instead of grazing at China Buffet; I avoid the temptation to order a pizza to be delivered; I stop buying grocieries onesy-twosy at the Dreary Mart and haul my ass down to Sam's and get a reasonable price. When I'm really desparate to acquire something, I even go back to making iced tea instead buying soft drinks; I can get a fifth of V.O.B. for the price of a pint of Maker's Mark, so I do that. I skip repairs to the Audi; on this one, the law of diminishing returns will kick in soon. Probably other ways I can't think of right now... -dq

26 years, 3 months

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DEC MUX cables free

by thompson＠mail.athenet.net

Recently I came across a variety of DEC QBUS MUX cables, and they are available at the cost of shipping. I have several BC19B-12 cables which go from the CXY-08 MUX to 4 DB25 RS-232 ports. I seem to recall someone from the list wanted one of these a while back. I also have large number of BC16D cables which connect a CXA-16 MUX board (the one without the full modem control lines) to the H3104 8 port banjo MMJ patch panels (also available). Let me know if any of these interests you. paul

26 years, 3 months

1
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"IBM's 360 and Early 370 Computers"

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I've got a in-good-shape copy of this book, which I enjoyed very much- anybody out there an IBM fan, want this book, and have something interesting to trade for it in turn? Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+

26 years, 3 months

2
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Any AS/400 experts around?

by eric＠brouhaha.com

I'm now the proud (?) owner of an old AS/400, Type 9406 Model B45. Assuming that when we managed to let the rack fall on its side that we didn't destroy it; this is yet to be determined. Anyhow, I have very little (bordering on no) clue about AS/400s, so if anyone else knows about them, tips, advice, help, or the like would be greatly appreciated. The system came with about twelve Type 9332-600 disk drives (600M each), a Type 9348-001 nine-track drive (which is an HP 88780 with a custom front panel), and two terminals (but only one keyboard). It appears that the disks and tape drive are differential SCSI devices with Sun-style 50-pin D-sub connectors. I vaugely recall reading in the past that AS/400s use a weird sector size that is not a power of two; most high-end SCSI drives can be reformatted for alternate sector sizes. The CPU box contains: part feature upper lower slot number number connector connector function ---- ------- ------- --------- --------- ---------- 1 66X4709 3060 16M memory 2 66X4709 3060 16M memory 3 66X4490 3055 8M memory 4 21F5132 2513 processor? tamper seals! 5 93X2120 2514 ??? 6 93X2701 2601 50 female tape interface 7 93X2709 6110 50 female disk interface 8 46F4141 6130 ??? 9 26F5028 6031 50 male 50 male ??? 10 59X4270 6040 25 female ??? 11 93X2737 6110 50 female second disk interface? 12 blank panel 13 blank panel I guess that one of the cards in slot 9 or 10 must be an interface to terminals or to a 3174 terminal controller or the like. The IBM AS/400 web site doesn't seem to have any info on hardware this old. I'd really like to get an ethernet interface. I got factory-sealed 9-track tape distributions of two different releases of OS/400, four tapes each. I gather that there's some sort of license key needed for the software, so I have no idea whether I'll be able to install it. Naturally when I got the machine the seller didn't make any arrangements for a license transfer. For the price I paid I suppose it would be unreasonable to ask them to jump through hoops to do such a thing.

26 years, 3 months

2
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OT: 911 (was Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 16, Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Well, since you mentioned it, the '95 car I mentioned above is a > > Porsche 911...a car that has changed very little over the years since > > its introduction. > > I suppose it depends on what you define as "changed very little". '71, '73, > '74, '76, '78, '82 and '85 all introduce significant chassis changes. > The liquid-cooled current production engine has only passing resemblance > to the air-cooled precursors and the transaxle has seen radical changes. > About the only thing that is really constant about the car is the shape, > the transmission-in-front-of-differential-in-front-of-engine-layout > and the organization of the engine as a boxer-six. Oh, and the location > of the ignition on the left-hand side of the wheel :-) > > Look hard enough and almost every bit has been radically revisited, which > coupled with the amazing ability to graft in stuff from the 930/34/35 and > even a few 928 bits, makes for *all sorts* of fun for those of us who get > geeky over 911s... :-) When I say "changed very little" I meant compared to certain other models of car we see on the roads these days. Certainly there are dozens to hundreds of changes every year or couple of years...I have an '83 and a '95, and they're very different cars. But, to the non-911-geek, to see them sitting next to each other in a parking lot, they're damn near identical. -Dave McGuire

26 years, 3 months

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ID'ing VAX Boards

by jbmcb＠hotmail.com

I pulled a bunch of VAX boards out of an, I think, 8200 that was destined for the scap heap. How do ID these things? They are VAXBI and VAXBI-A, or whatever the CPU bus is. I've got a BUNCH (Around 15) I've ID'd one as a TK-50 Controller (It says it is) and an ethernet controller (DEBNT) Any help would be appreciated.

26 years, 3 months

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Yo

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

As stated long ago and as printed in the newspaper article done on me, my goal is to open a museum sometime in the very near future. I'm trying to get corporate funding and grants to get it off the ground. Right now I have stuff stored everywhere, such as 1800 sq ft warehouse in Houston (full), a 10x15 storage unit in Houston, two bedrooms in a house in Houston, 4- 10x15 and 1-10x20 storage units here in St. Paul, a one car garage full here, one bedroom full here in the apartment, and 5- 3x4x16 storage units in my complex here. I have over 3000 hardware items, over 1500 books, tons of old test equipment, and several hundred other types of items such cups, mousepads, mice, giveaways from trade shows (such as the items you send me each year from the VCF), I have computer art work (paint and photo), computer puzzles, computer toys, robots, and the list goes on. My wife says if I die before the museum is built than this all goes to the trashman. I started this back in 1985 and my dream of a museum started back 1992. But rising a family and working everyday was tops on my list at the time and now the kids are all grown and can go after my dream. I have gotten help from many on this list and hope that I can be of help to some of the new members. Well that enough history for today. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> To: <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 12:42 AM Subject: Yo > > John, let me ask you: what the hell are you going to do with all the crap > you are collecting? I mean, I collect a lot of stuff, but you seem to be > taking in about 4 times what I have in total every few months. > > How much stuff do you have, where do you keep it all, and what are you > going to eventually do with it? > > More curious than anything... > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > Coming soon: VCF 4.0! > VCF East: Planning in Progress > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > >

26 years, 3 months

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DEC Vaxstation II GPX needs a home

by vcf＠siconic.com

This person has a DEC VAXstation II GPX that needs a new home. Please contact the original sender directly. They are located in Bellingham, WA. Phone: 360 733 8111 Reply-to: mbennett(a)aerotechsports.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:41:04 -0700 From: Mike Bennett <mbennett(a)aerotechsports.com> To: vcf(a)vintage.org We have a DEC Vaxstation II GPX with a 19 inch VR290 DA monitor. It have Keyboard and mouse. We have since abondoned the unit for smaller faster systems. We are looking to sell or donate the the equipment to any intersested party. We would appreciate ant assistance you might be able to provide. Best regards, Mike Bennett Preident Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 3 months

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Apple III (was: Apple III motherboard)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 6/16/00 9:36:08 PM Central Daylight Time, mgregory(a)vantageresearch.com writes: << Any other examples of semi-official fixes like this one? The only other one that comes to mind is the infamous "Atari ST twist", where you grasped both sides of the case firmly, and twisted the ends in opposite directions. The flexing of the motherboard supposedly reseated a chip that frequently came loose, without, of course, requiring you to open the case, and thereby void your warranty. >> wasnt there a similar issue with the TRS80 model 1's expansion interface? I remember hearing that it had a dodgy connection and many people devised methods of maintaining good contact. D.B. Young Team OS/2 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers of yesteryear! come one, come all! http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 3 months

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Blinking lights hidden

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Something's been puzzling me: when I look at my CDC SMD drive, the NCR > applications processor, some smaller SMD drives, LEDs in my 11/44, > etc., there's something I just don't understand. Why did companies > begin hiding blinking lights, status displays, etc. behind covers, in > places behind the front panel that aren't obvious at first glance, > hidden in boards in a card cage, etc.? So they wouldn't have to document their meaning for end-users. "hello, Prime Technical Support, how may I help you?" "My P400 front panel is blinking wildly, like I've never seen before; what should I do?" "We can sell you a VCP-based P650 that won't blink wildly and generate extraneous service calls to us, for $125k and your existing P400 system. How soon would you like delivery?" -dq

26 years, 3 months

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ADM's on list.

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I've got an ADM-5. What a neat little terminal! I like it a lot. > > I think I want to get an iMac and set them side-by-side. :) Could the reason for the iMac's popularity be racial memory of the ADM-3 and 5 days? :-)

26 years, 3 months

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IBM PC Convertible Power Supply

by mrdos＠swbell.net

I just picked up an IBM PC Convertible at a thrift shop. It has a battery (dead), but no power supply. Does anyone know the power specifications for it? Thanks, Owen

26 years, 3 months

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New Finds

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: John R. Keys Jr. <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, June 19, 2000 11:36 PM Subject: New Finds >Well the week back from vacation has been pretty good I hit 3 auction >and came away with a few good deals. >5. TI99 color monitor the size of a TV and looks just like an old 19" >model. John, do you mean a 9" monitor? AFAIK the only monitor produced by TI for the 99/4(A) was a neat little silver composite monitor, with a vertical dimension of 9" or 10". I believe they were bundled with the original 99/4 for the bargain price of $1,200 or thereabouts. They were later available separately, but still way too expensive. I'd be interested in more details (especially the TI part number, usually PHP ####) if it is a TI badged 19" for the 99/4(A). Regards, Mark

26 years, 3 months

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Thrift Store find: Apple IIgs

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:03:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> writes: << I have a variety of Apple II machines (I used to make my living on them long, long ago) and my little brother, an avid thrifter, found a IIgs for me this week. ISTR there are multiple varieties; this one appears to be fairly old. It has a memory card inside with 256K of RAM soldered down, and spaces for another .75Mb. The ROM is version 1.0. Just playing around, I figured out how to get into the config menu and set background colors, 80 column, etc. I happened to have an external 5.25" Laser drive I got with my $15 IIc+ and was able to boot up the only DOS 3.3 disk I could find - Zork I. So... now that I have two machines that want to have 3.5" drives and no copies of DOS 3.3 on that medium, is it possible to aquire it anywhere? I have Macs, etc., so I can make a 3.5" disk from an Apple disk image if that's what it takes. Also, are there any ways I can expand this puppy? I happen to have a couple of old Apple double disk drives (the kind that came with the IIe); does anyone know of a diagram to make an adapter for the 19-pin connector that the newer computers take? >> sounds like you have the original model GS with 256k. later ones such as mine have ROM 03 and 1 meg. My GS also had a memory expansion card that I filled up to the max by using an XT's memory dip chips so most likely you can do the same. Nibble magazine used to have a program called dos plus which gave you two 400k dos 3.3 volumes on a 800k floppy. you can expand that GS like you would any //e or + except you dont need an 80 column card of course. the disk ][ drives you speak of can be used with a standard //e controller card if you like, or the apple // newsgroup members should be able to provide a pinout to cable those 20pin connectors to the unidisk port on the back of the computer.

26 years, 3 months

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ADM's on list.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 20, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I don't really want to start another "ebay good/ebay bad" argument, but > did everybody see that an ADM-3A just sold on ebay for $355 US!?!? Cool! > I have two in good working and cosmetic condition that I got from a > bank some years ago, including the little panels and screws that cover > the option dip switches. I alos have docs. How many more are out there, > just on this list? I've got an ADM-5. What a neat little terminal! I like it a lot. I think I want to get an iMac and set them side-by-side. :) -Dave McGuire

26 years, 3 months

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Infocom on pdp-11

by djg＠drs-esg.com

From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> >In the early-to-mid 1980s, Infocom used to offer a bunch of their games >for the PDP-11. Naturally I didn't get my first -11 until after that. >If anyone has a copy of Zork (or the other games) for the -11, I'd >certainly love to get a copy. > Amazon.com has witness for pdp-11 (64k) for only $69.95. I had remembered running across this a while ago but though it was Zork. Either they found a different one or (more likely) my memory is bad. Hardcover Disk edition (April 1984) Looks like it's their 828,139th best seller... David Gesswein

26 years, 3 months

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Please confirm *old* Mac Rumors...

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: r. 'bear' stricklin <red(a)bears.org> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Please confirm *old* Mac Rumors... > >It is true. The keyboard which shipped with the Mac 128k did not have >cursor keys, and I'm fairly certain that there wasn't an option for same >until the Plus (when it may have become standard issue). > >ok >r. > Was this another "Steveism", like the lack of a fan, and the sealed, appliance-style case? I admire Jobs' vision (even if I don't necessarily agree with it), but his reality distortion field has produced some notably un-user-friendly decisions. Mark.

26 years, 3 months

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Please confirm *old* Mac Rumors...

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

>The Mac Plus on my desk right now has cursor keys. I've >heard that the 128k Mac (the very first model) had >neither cursor keys nor >the numeric keypad. > >I have an Apple /// at home which has special keys for >cursor movement. They auto-repeat quite slowly when held >down, but if you press a bit harder, the auto-repeat >speeds up. Rather a >nice idea, I thought. > >-- >John Honniball >Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk >University of the West of England John is right. The keyboards on the Mac 128 & 512 have no arrow keys. I even have a "proper" keyboard (made by datadesk) that has arrow keys, but they don't work. So I suppose that the ROM has no support for the keys. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. ____________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 3 months

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CDC 9" PA5N1F15 drive head locking. How?

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

AFAIK, MPI was a joint venture between Honeywell and CDC, but I could be wrong... Also, FSD = Fixed Storage Disk, aka Winchester.. those drives are very nice units... as are the later Sabre's that are half the size of the FSDs.. Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 3 months

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ADM's on list.

by aknight＠mindspring.com

Hi, I have one ADM-3A that is available for sale or trade. I don't have a price in mind but am certainly not looking for "eBay" amounts - I'd actually prefer a trade for some interesting old nixie-tube or HP calculator stuff or certain computer stuff that's on my "want" list (see my web page). The one I have is an off-white color, not light blue as some of them are. Please contact me ASAP if you're interested. Alex Knight Calculator History & Technology Museum Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm - "want" list is at http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/wanted.htm At 04:37 PM 6/20/00 -0400, you wrote: >> Bill Sudbrink asks: >> How many {ADM-3A's} are out there, just on this list?

26 years, 3 months

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Zork on Apple II, wanted for PDP-11 (was Re: Thrift Store find: Apple IIgs)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > > and was able to boot up the > > only DOS 3.3 disk I could find - Zork I. > > Minor nitpick: Zork I doesn't use DOS of any version. It was originally > shipped on a bootable 13-sector diskette, and later on 16-sector, which > is what you have. True. Mea Culpa. I should have said, "the only Apple II bootable disk I have is..." > The earliest Zork I release was buggy as all heck. Once I managed to have > in my inventory about 20-30 "rooms". On an early version of Zork I for the C-64, I managed to "give me to the thief". Later on, in the strange passage, I saw "a cretin" sitting in the hallway. > In the early-to-mid 1980s, Infocom used to offer a bunch of their games > for the PDP-11. Naturally I didn't get my first -11 until after that. > If anyone has a copy of Zork (or the other games) for the -11, I'd > certainly love to get a copy. I remember seeing "Planetfall" up on the wall of the Digital Store in downtown Columbus when I was a kid. I knew who Digital was, but I didn't get my first Dec machine until I was 16 (a PDP-8/L that took two years to restore owing to a lack of docs). > The -11 processor would do a good job of implementing the Z-machine. I agree. They aren't much different from each other, architecturally. I've completely disassembled the C-64 version 1 engine, partially commented it and gotten it running on VICE with a VIC-20 and a BASIC 3.0 PET! If I ever had _way_ too much free time, I could probably craft a working engine for RT-11. I used to program that for a living, too, in a former life. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

26 years, 3 months

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Did you see...

by foo＠siconic.com

Bill Sudbrink said: > > If you're wondering if they're rare, the answer is no, they are not. > > They're about as rare as Altairs, which by the way used to show up on > > eBay at least once a week. > > I would think that they are significantly more common than Altairs. > You wouldn't normally find 20 Altairs in a bank. My point was that they are not very rare at all and the person who paid $355 for one was, well, let's not get into that :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 3 months

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More Stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

-----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:06 PM Subject: Re: More Stuff >On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > >> I want one too!. I notice it didn't mention what CPU it used -- any >> ideas? Initially I guessed at the Z80, but I am now wondering if it's an >> 1802 or something odd... > >No menion in the ad. Maybe Allison knows. The kit was sold by Netronics, >the same people who sold the ELF II and Exlporer 85 kits. Netronics what? they only did the Explorer (8085) and the Elf (1802) anthing else were supporting boards for one or the other. Allison > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > Coming soon: VCF 4.0! > VCF East: Planning in Progress > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > >

26 years, 3 months

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Got some DecMate 1s!

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

WooHoo! I received two DecMate I systems today along with a Dec LetterPrinter 100 and an RX02 Dual Drive unit. I have some doc and software to go with them. Have to sort through it all. Problem is I promised my wife I'd go with her to the ball game tonight. Dang, now I can't check it all out until tomorrow evening. Oh well, at least this way she won't complain about having them around the house... not much anyway. Now the quest to get them up and running begins. Oh and thanks for getting the systems to me John, if you're still on the list. They arrived nicely packed and safe and sound. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years, 3 months

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Zork on Apple II, wanted for PDP-11 (was Re: Thrift Store find: Apple IIgs)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > I forgot to answer the other question: > > > So... now that I have two machines that want to have 3.5" drives and > > no copies of DOS 3.3 on that medium, is it possible to aquire it anywhere? > > I have Macs, etc., so I can make a 3.5" disk from an Apple disk image > > if that's what it takes. > > Apple never supported DOS on 3.5". There were some third-party hacks, but > I've never obtained copies. So how did the Apple IIc+ work? It has an internal 3.5" floppy. Did you have to have an external 5.25" drive to play old games, etc? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

26 years, 3 months

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Composing on paper, Green-bar, hardcopy output, card decks (L ong)

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

>From the Jargon file greenbar: n. A style of fanfolded continuous-feed paper with alternating green and white bars on it, especially used in old-style line printers. This slang almost certainly dates way back to mainframe days. This makes me feel ancient. The green bars were 1 inch wide which was 6 lines normal or 8 lines compressed. About 1979 I remember when I wrote a talk for a microbiology conference on my VT52 terminal. I then printed it out on greenbar which was used to prompt me during the talk. The greenbar proceeded to unfold down the front of the podium all the way to the floor. My boss was kind enough to indicate that the talk was really written by the computer. One problem with greenbar was that you had to turn it over if you wanted to print pictures or banners on the paper. Very long fiber paper, some of the cheap stuff was kind of like newspaper greenbar. I still have several cases of it, the fancy kind with printed line numbers. The nice thing about composing on paper was that once you wrote the same or similar thing several times by hand you decided to create a subroutine/procedure. Paper could be taken to the pool or outside, no electricity required. Composing on terminals was only practical when there were terminals available. Doesn't anyone remember coding sheets? If you are punching cards on an IBM 026 keypunch then any errors and the card was trash. The IBM 029 keypunch didn't actually punch the card until the end of the line, you could correct errors if you noticed them. Trash cards were useful for phone messages and notes. All of the JCL cards were usually a different color to allow the card decks to be split apart. I seem to remember pictures being drawn on the decks to allow the user to peer through the computer room window to see if your deck was due to be run soon. The best card run I ever saw was a 1976 run where the entire music list for the MU radio station was read in and then sorted by music type, performer, and title and then printouts produced. This happened on a Sunday when CPU time was free on the IBM 370 model 158 due to system testing. 12 boxes of data cards were read in and then stored on 9-track tape. Best input output/setup was in 1970 at CMU where the cards were read in and then output printed down a long series of sloped tables, each user got <10 minute response, they had a traffic light set up in the IO room. RED = system down, GREEN = system up, YELLOW = use at your own risk. They had a camera and speaker watching the printer to tell the users to change the paper on the printer. Worst setup was MU Computer Sciences where you turned in the cards and got back output in 24 hours. Many times with message CPU time exceeded and no output. Mike Coder from the dark ages

26 years, 3 months

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Free stuff!

by Marion.Bates＠dartmouth.edu

Hey -- Been housecleaning recently. I have several machines and some parts available to anyone who can come pick them up -- I'm living in Jacksonville, FL for the summer. Apple IIc and power adapter (works) Zenith 286 laptop (works) Apple IIGS (powers up, but I seem to remember it having some weird intermittent error message) Magnavox monochrome Computer Monitor 80 (works, small and lightweight, good for a testing bench?) Mac Plus with power supply problem, rest of it works 2 internal SCSI hard drives (230 and 260 MB), both worked last I checked 800k internal Mac floppy drive (dunno if it works) 400k external Mac floppy drive (dunno if it works) ImageWriter II (works, good cosmetic condition) Dead Apple Newton 100 with some accessories, manuals, etc. -- I think I fried something when attempting to resolder the loose audio wire Mac SE/30 (works, but if you take this, you are required to take the rest, too. ;-) And OT: some other electronic thingies, like a dead Sony Bookman and a Sega "simon says" game, if your tastes are that eclectic. Please email off-list for details, directions, etc. Thanks, -- MB

26 years, 3 months

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Programming on Paper

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Having a machine to interact with allows you to test your code on the spot > >and if you are writing in an interpreted language the error-checking the > >interpreter provides is a godsend for the coder. Why anyone would code > >without the interaction of the target machine is beyond me. > > I write perfect code, like Mozart it flows out in its final form to the > paper, and then to the system. I think the immediacy of interactive programming causes the programmer to tend to exit the design loop early, before the design has actually crystallized in the mind. Working with paper provides the slowdown needed to allow this crystallization to occur. And now that I think about it... ISTR a paper by someone at Purdue during the 60s, a paper exploring the value of interactive computing (timesharing), and it specifically referred to hypothetical systems so fast that the benefits of being able to immediately submit a design to test would be lost due to the programmer jumping out of the design loop too quickly. But, to each his own... as long as they're not working for me. -dq

26 years, 3 months

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