- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I still have a floor mount style MicroPDP11/73 chassis in Kansas City. I used the machine several time but mainly it sat in the garage next to the microvax2000 and PDP 11/23+. When I ran out of space because of 2 new Microvax II's and extra disk drives I decided to sell it to somebody on this list. I sold the boards and the purchaser didn't want the chassis because of the weight and size. You all can fight over it, $10 plus you pay shipping I'll provide packing and transport to the FedEx pickup for free. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

26 years, 1 month

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Wang Professional-boot disk or docs?

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

I apologize--that reply was meant to go off list. I will remember not to reply to messages before having had coffee in the future!

26 years, 1 month

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$700 TRS-80???

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

The highest unsuccessful bid was also for $700 by someone with a feedback rating of 232. He didn't succeed because the winner had placed his $700 bid the day before. There were four bids for >$600, and one for $250. (from http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=359971659) I do think it was the well-written description and all the pictures that pushed the price up into the stratosphere. --Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dwight Elvey Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 12:40 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: $700 TRS-80??? "Passer, Michael" <PasserM(a)umkc.edu> wrote: > I saw that one too--it had to be the description! > Hi Did anyone ask the bidders why they went so high? There may be a valid reason. Looking at the other bidders history, the next higher bidder was a regular buyer. The winning bid was by someone that has made no other purchases. He could have been a fake and wanted to see how high things would go. I would be quite interested to see how the sale goes through. The buyer has also resently changed his handle. Makes one wonder? Dwight

26 years, 1 month

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The cost of collecting debate

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >The original TRS-80 Level 1, 4K, with monitor and cassette was $599. The >level 2 WAS $700, wasn't it? Initially then it was dropped in price. I thik the 4k/L1 went down to $399 and the 16k/LII was $599 later on. Either way there were some 300-400 thousand of them sold! In the first year of sales the total sold was 250,000! Rare, hardly. What would be rare is a completely stock system with a real working early model expansion interface!!! Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Wang Professional-boot disk or docs?

by passerm＠umkc.edu

Does anyone out there have a boot disk, software and/or documentation for the Wang Professional Computer? I liberated one of these from a local thrift store for the grand sum of $2.97 (keyboard, monitor, and computer/drives all individually priced @ 99c). It appears to be in working order--startup diagnostics and the keyboard work fine. The monochrome display is one of the nicest ones I've seen. An interesting note is that the startup ROM contains an option to boot the machine from the serial port! Thanks for anything anyone might be able to spare-- I am, of course, willing to pay shipping plus a reasonable amount for the time involved, particularly if someone copies me a boot disk. Mike Passer passerm(a)umkc.edu

26 years, 1 month

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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by allisonp＠world.std.com

several messages: >> If in fact it truly requires specialized equipment and this hacker >> can demonstrate that it doesn't, I'm at a loss to understand why said >> hacker is unemployed save by choice. > >With all due respect, Chris, and acknowledging that this may vary >from region to region, the ability to find gainful employment >has less to do with one's technical skills than it does with the >balance of one's employment skills and personality. For example, I'd agree, I looked for two years in the other H-1B capital eastern MA, and no one was interested in me. I saw who they were hiring, and they were young, male and going cheap. Emplyment right now is a game, everyone is looking for a few and the wnat list if bizzare. The best example, a local comms firm wanted techs (not engineers) that had a minimum of BS in Math and 2 years DSP experience! Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Rich vs. Poor: Middle Ground

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> >This is such a crock, if you want a cheap computer do the same thing you >did before eBay, turn over a LOT of rocks. Just about everybody on this >lists that is actively looking, ie making phone calls, driving places, >etc., is still finding a LOT of computers. Amen! In the last year for free and not actively sought... Coleco Adam from the trash Zenith Xt laptop "here you want it, or the trash" Hyndai 286LT laptop in the trash, works! 486dx/66 system even 4x cdrom complete, if I didn't take it guess what... the trash. and other odds and ends. Granted the PC stuff is mostly for giving away as I don't need it all. There is stuff to be found the trick is to catch it before it's landfill in many cases. Maybe it's me but far to much good hardware is going landfill. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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The cost of collecting debate

by foo＠siconic.com

On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote: > An aside: It's amazing, how some people over on E-bay, will add "Imsai > Altair" to descriptions of all these non-descript S-100 computer boxes > and parts. Of course, nobody is fooled, and the prices stay low. (Same > with Well, the prices staying low must be a new thing. There's a reason they put "Altair IMSAI" on their ads, that being that lots of people would fall for it for lack of an understanding of recent computer history (i.e. suckers). Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 1 month

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The cost of collecting debate

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

IMHO, it's arrogant to think that ANY old computers (other than a few very rare exceptions) are all that "valuable". If all the TRS-80s, ALTAIRS, SWTPs, all the documentation, and software, etc... were to disappear tomorrow, life as we know it would not change. The reason that I collect is that I enjoy tinkering with and restoring old machines. It has nothing to do with monitary gain, historical preservation, mentoring children about the "old ways", or saving the world from the loss of some irreplacable techno-saur. With the exception of "monitary gain" all the other reasons above are BS! Frankly I do have enough money to buy almost any computer I want and I do buy from E-Bay. I also buy from garage sales, flee markets, thrift stores, and other collectors. I have driven as much as 800 miles to pick up a system that I particularily wanted but, I have NEVER paid too much. I've always paid EXACTLY what I was willing to pay. The good thing about forums like Ebay is that they give you the opportunity to set the price that you are wiling to pay. If someone else is willing to pay more, so be it. Sure I've been disapppointed because I didn't get a system that I was bidding on but, so what. By the same token, I found a system that is the only surviving member of it's species for $50. Is it irreplacable? Sure it's irreplacable because there aren't any more. Would it really matter if I tossed it in the trash? Maybe to a few people on this list but other than that... not really. Before anyone goes on another rant about throwing a machine in the trash, let's take a poll: Assuming I was to offer it for free, who on this list (other than captain napalm who's only 10 miles away) would drive to South Florida to pick it up? Steve Robertson

26 years, 1 month

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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Try telling it to the unemployed hardware hacker who's figured out how to > > fix things that the manufacturer claimed could only be repaired at their > > factory with special equipment. > > If in fact it truly requires specialized equipment and this hacker > can demonstrate that it doesn't, I'm at a loss to understand why said > hacker is unemployed save by choice. With all due respect, Chris, and acknowledging that this may vary >from region to region, the ability to find gainful employment has less to do with one's technical skills than it does with the balance of one's employment skills and personality. For example, it's far more important to my employer that I wear a crisp shirt and tie each day than that I know trend <x> or technology <z> (unless I hadn't said so before, I'm a programmer working as a system administrator; long story behind why). YMMV, etc. -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Not true. Nearly every museum will welcome volunteers with open arms, and > as long as the artifcats are not abused, they can be worked on and used. > Just about anyone on this list is welcome at RCS/RI to play with any of > our machines. Once we know people well enough, machines can be taken home > on a loan basis. In this we are not some odd organization - many museums > work exactly in this fashion. And the price is zero. Bill- While it really helps to have "live" organizational skills, I think a group of organizationally-challenged folk could do wonders if they had a roadmap to follow, and from the sounds of it, you & Merle & Co. have put together something special. Have you considered writing up either your experiences in putting the RCS/RI together, or even better, something closer to a step-by-step guide to finding the interested local parties and what to look for in terms of facilities (lots of space & separately derived 3-phase power systems are obvious; other things are less so). It may never happen here in the Louisville area (whatever critical mass of interest is required may or may not be present), but I'd like to try getting it started. We have a Museum of Science and Technology, but it's all mass-public stuff, IMAX Theatre, etc. -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Temporary Departure

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

I'll be off-list for a while due to an upcoming vacation. Back soon! 73 de WD6EOS -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 1 month

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$700 TRS-80???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

-----Original Message----- From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 11:55 AM Subject: $700 TRS-80??? >Can anyone explain to me why a TRS-80 model 1 level 2, no expansion >box or floppies, just the base unit, ps and monitor, would sell for >$700 US? There were several bidders willing to go over $600. Stupidity. >There are several more, more complete, systems on ebay right now in >the $20-$60 range. There's also one with a $460 starting bid and >no bidders. Is there something I'm missing on this one? buy the cheap one. ;) Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by foxnhare＠jps.net

Obviously you are looking in the wrong places if the price of equipment is too high for you nor are you looking at the "big picture"... Sure, I use eBay, but only for stuff that's cheap, if it is too expensive I look for things other people don't know about or haven't thought of collecting yet. (My BASIC games book collection is doing nicely, thank you.) If I can't get stuff on eBay cheap, then I scour the thrift stores, yard sales, newsgroups, shows like VCF, etc. If computer X is too expensive, I wait, heck, in 5 years I'll probably get one, I'm in no rush... (thats how I got most of my computers cheap, either buy it new in stores or wait a few years till it's lifespan brings it to Salvation Army...) Also if you have the webspace available - do justice to your favorite collection and help others, this is not only a status symbol for the collector but also let's visitors know that if they clean out their closet of classic stuff/info, there is a place they can send it to who will appreciate it and use it to assist others. (yes, I have received a few contributions and am very appreciative.) But of course if you fall into the "beanie babie" - collect for investment croud, that advice is a moot point. There are alot of aspects to a computer collection, not just the machines; there is the software, cables, controllers, peripherals, manuals, books, magazines, ads, stickers, buttons, etc... (in fact some of the software, manuals books and magazines are probably more rewarding to find than some of the computers...) > Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:34:33 -0700 > From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> > Subject: Re: Is it time for an International Vintage Computer > Association? Was: Yo > > At 07:46 PM 6/27/00 +0100, Tony wrote: > >I've seen it said (in print) several times that various hobbies were > >ruined when the rich got involved and simply started pouring money in. > > Sounds a bit like the joke, "What that place? Nobody goes there > anymore, > its too crowded!" > > - --Chuck -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Classic Commodore pages at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011

26 years, 1 month

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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:40:31 -0400 (EDT) William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> writes: > So what? At least some people can afford to go. For a lucky few, it > might just be a short trip in the car. Better a few than none... If you can afford it, go. My point is that despite organized efforts, not everyone will have access (for various reasons). This isn't the promoter's fault; it's usually a matter of geography. > How about real museums? Nice, but individual ownership is a much more valuable experience (to the individual). Not possible once these systems become 'Museum Pieces'. > How about speadiung knowledge - informing the public and each > other about the history? We have forums like this one. But I guess you'll *need* an 'official' organization now: It's becomming apparent that only certain opinions are now considered 'acceptable'. > How about saving hardware and software that is out of the reach > af any individual? Groups of caring individuals have always worked together towards this end. In the past, the money wasn't a motivation. I don't know if this will reman the case in the future. > How about professional recognition? I always figured that the real {hobbyists | enthusiasts} weren't (by definition) 'professionals'. The original developers? Write one a letter, thanking them for their contribution. I did. How about security for our collections? Keep your {door|gate|porticullis} locked. > > And I'm saying, all you will be doing is raising the cost of > > admission. There's nothing anyone can do to stop you, of course. > > If Classic Computing becomes a 'legitimate' hobby with a > 'legitimate' > > organization, then I guess there won't be room for amateurs > > like myself. You professional 'true historical preservationists' > > can have it. > > Jeff, take your stinking attitude and get out of town. Please. The > one thing that hurts retrocomputing more than anything else is someone > like you. You know, I could get really angry at this last remark, but it just makes me sad. (Retro)computing was a 'joy' thing. It was so awesome because just about anyone could experience it. It was really something special because it's only major cost was the time and effort you put into it. What really mattered was what came from the heart, really. What really matters now, is what comes from the wallet. I guess it really wasn't so special afterall. Bye. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

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Rich vs. Poor: Middle Ground (Was: RE: Is it time for an Internat ional Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Okay, if you want to take that tack on the subject, let's go: > So you're saying that only the rich and powerful are *worthy* of > a such as noble endeavor such as ours? Jeff, I'm using your quote as a starting point, please don't think I'm picking on you. Well, somewhere between rich and poor (I tend to count myself the latter), there must be middle ground. My current focus is on Primes, and I'm playing fast-and- loose with my bills (as well as selling things I'd rather keep) to try to get this system to a certain point where I'll feel comfortable with. However, had I managed to save that MicroPDP-11/73 >from the Jaws of Greed, I would likely have simply held on to it until I could find a better home for it. Strictly speaking, I'd say that's collecting and not preservationist. But at least I'd have kept it from the landfill. Ideally, the poor collectors amongst us can do lots of that. But I think it's incumbent upon us to be ready to give up posession to someone who can do the item more justice than we can. I think a phrase commonly stated about relationships might be applicable here. Rephrased: If you love something, let it go. I'm letting go of at least one of two unfinished SOL motherboards very, very soon (but my original working SOL I will keep). As to the rich: by virtue of your economic power, you might easily fall into the trap of compulsive acquisition. Fewer constraints hold you back, and so the ID runs wild. Had the Evil Lurker been restoring a personal system with the parts he was looking for, it would not have bothered me a wit. I'd like to take solace in knowing there's a good chance someone restoring a system will see the parts he has for sale, and buy them. But I'm afraid they'll just enter a nonterminating speculative loop. So, to the rich, let me say this: try to be aware of what's going on around you, and if you see you're trying to acquire something that some poor guy is also going for, remember, this may be his only chance, and you'll likely have another. And to the poor guys (like me), I say: be willing to give something up to someone who can actually get it going sooner than the 20 years it might take you due to your more limited financial resources. Just my tuppence' worth... regards, -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Rich vs. Poor: Middle Ground (Was: RE: Is it time for an Inte rnat ional Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> What if the machines are to be scrapped in a hurry, and no one can take > the whole thing? I would think that gutting the things is the best > option. A few parts are better than nothing... > > I have done this - specifically with a VAX-11/750 and 4D/380. These were > advertised on this list in the very early days, but I was apparently the > only one that could even get close to the machines. Needless to say, I > couldn't take the machines as a whole, so the cards were pulled. If that's the only choice- landfill or reduction to parts- sure, reduce it to parts. Sometimes, there's middle ground... -dq

26 years, 1 month

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Query about Meyers Computer Services of Jersey Shore, PA

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > loop that doesn't respond at the speed of light. However, I > > use delivery and read receipts on all my mail, and if I at > > least get a receipt back, then I know I'm most likely "in > > the queue". Failure to receive same leaves me wondering if > > my message was even received. Not all ISPs and mailers support > > I'd be more worried if my message was received but then not replied to. > I'd feel more comfortable if I didn't get a receipt yet. That would imply > the person is too busy to even check e-mail yet. Hmmm, I'd say it would imply the person really isn't very technologically sophisticated... "Does that little envelope mean I've got mail, or that I should write some?" -dq

26 years, 1 month

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Evil Lurker Won, Gets His Parts

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> At 03:13 PM 6/27/00 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > >Chuck was right about the guy that won the bid on > >the MicroPDP-11/73... the buyer's name is Chris > >Hoaglin, and all he is interested in is f*cking > >up a working computer to end up with parts he > >can sell to fund his greedy little schemes. He > >wants the backplane and all the cards. I wish the > >seller would have said NO, but that was not to be. > > I'm sorry but I can't agree with the sentiment here. I appear to have been guilty of projecting, in this case, reading into your previous remarks what I was feeling. Sorry. I'm desparately looking for parts, but I'd sooner cut off a limb than rob them from a working system until _every_ effort has been made to find a good home for that system. This one appeared to be lacking an OS (or anything for it to reside on) but I see that as minor compared to systems with disfunctional stuff in the backplace. But I gotta admit, I'm making way too much noise over a doggone PDP-11 when they aren't my forte to begin with. At least I get the tape drive. regards, -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Rich vs. Poor: Middle Ground (Was: RE: Is it time for an Internat ional Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Had the Evil Lurker been restoring a personal system >with the parts he was looking for, it would not have >bothered me a wit. On the gripping hand, I know of some "collectors" (as in they acquire large amounts of stuff without looking for commercial gain) who will, for example, rip all the boards out of a working VAX 8650 but leave the chassis behind, because they have no way of hauling the chassis cabinets nor a place to put them. As far as I can tell, nobody wins here, because a working 8650 was turned into a pile of nearly-worthless parts that will simply sit in the basement for a couple of decades. Does this stop the offenders? Of course not! Tim.

26 years, 1 month

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Evil Lurker Won, Gets His Parts

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Chuck was right about the guy that won the bid on the MicroPDP-11/73... the buyer's name is Chris Hoaglin, and all he is interested in is f*cking up a working computer to end up with parts he can sell to fund his greedy little schemes. He wants the backplane and all the cards. I wish the seller would have said NO, but that was not to be. FWIW, I was going to steal one part- the plexiglass door of the TS05 tape drive- to put in place of a broken one on a Cipher. The broken Cipher door works, even broken, and will still work when glued back together- it will just look like sh*t. How- ever, I would have either preserved the system in all other ways, or even tried restoring it. Well, souless b*st*rds are prolifigate, and some are circling overhead like vultures. The only good note: I'll get the TS05 for US$5.00. I doubt I'll take the rack. Perhaps someday I'll need a part from the TS05 (assuming it *IS* really a Cipher streamer inside). Oh well. Hi ho. -doug quebbeman

26 years, 1 month

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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> And I'm saying, all you will be doing is raising the cost of > admission. There's nothing anyone can do to stop you, of course. > If Classic Computing becomes a 'legitimate' hobby with a 'legitimate' > organization, then I guess there won't be room for amateurs > like myself. You professional 'true historical preservationists' > can have it. Do we need 'true historical preservationists'? Maybe. Does that mean that the priorities of the 'true preservationists' will be the same as those who actually worked with the systems or still use the systems? Of course not. In fact, the priorities will probably be vastly different between the two groups, and this is all the better reason for both groups to co-exist, probably with at least a bit of animosity towards each other. How do priorities differ, even among "hobby" preservationists? Several ways: 1. Some insist on a pristine as-shipped-from-the-manufacturer system, with no third-party peripherals or software, and others realize that in real life there were very few such configurations and instead preserve the systems as they were actually installed, with third-party peripherals and software abounding. 2. Some only care about CPU's, and will travel hundreds or thousands of miles to pick up the CPU box, and leave the peripherals (necessary to boot the OS!) behind. Others put more emphasis on getting a few complete working systems rather than a bunch of CPU boxes that can't ever be booted. 3. Some haul away hardware, and leave a mountain of magtapes behind with the operating system, etc. Others haul away hardware and tapes and disks but leave the books behind. Others just want the books, others just want the tapes. I've seen every single one of the above characteristics exhibited by "amateur" collectors, and every single one of the above possibilities exhibited by "professional" collectors. Personally, I fall into the "put any old hardware together that makes a system work, don't care whether it's original or third party, get complete systems with peripherals, and spend lots of time archiving the software" category. Every person on this list probably falls into a different category. I may not agree with everyone's priorities, but in some sense a wide range of priorities from a wide range of people is a *probably* a good thing. Tim.

26 years, 1 month

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Query about Meyers Computer Services of Jersey Shore, PA

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> A few thoughts on this; > > 1) Don't make public posts questioning a vendors integrity prior to making > a good effort to settle the issue privately. This will include waiting more > than two business days for a reply. I went back and carefully read what I posted; a strict deconstruction of your phrase "questioning a vendor's integrity" does not seem to apply to what I said. I thought the tone of my post was respectful if somewhat apprehensive. I did not question his integrity; I merely related my experience and queried others as to theirs. And as to waiting two business days, let me say this. We all tend to expect instant results from anything involving a computer, forgetting that a human component is still in the loop that doesn't respond at the speed of light. However, I use delivery and read receipts on all my mail, and if I at least get a receipt back, then I know I'm most likely "in the queue". Failure to receive same leaves me wondering if my message was even received. Not all ISPs and mailers support receipts, I know; as to the ISP problem, scripts can provide the equivalent function. For mailers, all that's required is to switch to a different mailer. If anyone finds the receipts distasteful, they can decline to use them, but they risk what almost happened in this case. To summarize, had I gotten a receipt, I'd have waited as patiently as is possible for me, but I'd have waited. > 2) DOA happens on old drives, so do a dozen other end user mess ups that > keep them from spinning up or working. The drive could be fine, and you > just have a wimpy power supply or a jumper set wrong. Bzzt. Sorry, nope. The power supply is driving two diff SCSI drives that are full-height 5.25 inch units (HP 97548's, I believe). No way a wimpy 3.5 half-height drive is sucking more juice. > 3) Look at the ad terms carefully, not wishfully. Does it say 100% tested, > or just no DOA? If the latter it may be he has a stack of "mostly" good > drives and no desire to test them before shipping at $15 each. It said "just not DOA", and the drive was just plain DOA. regards, -doug quebbeman

26 years, 1 month

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TRON Movie Soundtrack LP

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>And to my ears, there's nothing like a full-bore Hammond being driven by Jon Lord from Deep Purple. Nobody, but nobody gets that angry, hulking, growling sound from an organ like Lord. Before I quit I tried to get that sound... no idea how he did that. Speaking of Tomita....on his "Bermuda Triangle" album (mine is on blue vinyl......) he included an encoded message that required Majorly cool color. someone with a Tarbell cassette interface to read. I never had the necessary equipment, and it's always bugged me as to what the message was. Has anyone here ever decoded it? I ment to. The cut FYI from playing with other "floppy roms" has to be very clean and right on pitch. IA or was it byte did a few of them as tryouts. Marginally successful. I'm not familiar with Subotnick. What is his style? Is it more like Carlos, Tomita, or Fast? Or, something completely different? Little of all, different than all. We should talk in terms of how old computers were used for music or declare this the official off topic thread. We always seem to have one and often they are as interesting as any even if they are OT. Allison Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam(a)laidbak.com

26 years, 1 month

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Yo

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Why not will it to the Computer Museum History Center? > > http://www.computerhistory.org > > hat's what I intend to do with mine. It's not enough to just will your collection or some part of it to the Computer Museum History Center... unless you also provide for the shipping/transport of your bequest from wherever it is to the Moffet Field operation, as they lack the funds to do so themselves. Everyone, please bear this in mind. Make sure a few $$$ remain to cover shipping & handling! -dq

26 years, 1 month

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Sidecar (was: Re: Do I look Rich ?

by ghldbrd＠ccp.com

On 26-Jun-00, you wrote: > > > On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Gary Hildebrand wrote: >> >> Sorry, Mark, I already have one, to which I just added a Sidecar. I think I > > Did you ever get the Sidecar to work? Did a bench test w/o the amiga, and didn't see any smoke (good sign?). I heard the HD make its expected noises, so at this point in time, I think the PC part works. Might have a prob in the shared memory part going to the Amiga. I have to clear out an area on the bench to set up everything. > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd(a)ccp.com

26 years, 1 month

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$700 TRS-80???

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I do think it was the well-written description and >all the pictures that pushed the price up into the >stratosphere. Very true. I remember trying to give some stuff (a bunch of 42" racks, old 14" disk drives, etc.) away five or so years ago, and nobody was interested. But then I attached a price and got several folks to show up to take it away. Tim.

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

$700 TRS-80???

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

I saw that one too--it had to be the description! --Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Sudbrink Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 10:48 AM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: $700 TRS-80??? Can anyone explain to me why a TRS-80 model 1 level 2, no expansion box or floppies, just the base unit, ps and monitor, would sell for $700 US? There were several bidders willing to go over $600. There are several more, more complete, systems on ebay right now in the $20-$60 range. There's also one with a $460 starting bid and no bidders. Is there something I'm missing on this one? URL for the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=359971659 Bill

26 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

$700 TRS-80???

by bill＠chipware.com

Can anyone explain to me why a TRS-80 model 1 level 2, no expansion box or floppies, just the base unit, ps and monitor, would sell for $700 US? There were several bidders willing to go over $600. There are several more, more complete, systems on ebay right now in the $20-$60 range. There's also one with a $460 starting bid and no bidders. Is there something I'm missing on this one? URL for the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=359971659 Bill

26 years, 1 month

7
6
0 0

TRON Movie Soundtrack LP

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > I ment to. The cut FYI from playing with other "floppy roms" > > has to be very clean and right on pitch. IA or was it byte did > > a few of them as tryouts. Marginally successful. > > Damn, I can't remember the name of the magazine but it wasn't Byte and I'm > having trouble figuring out what IA is, but at any rate I have those > issues with the floppy ROMs still intact. Jim Warren's Interface Age magazine (successor to the journal of the Southern California Computer Society's SCCS Interface)...? -doug q

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Tarbell Casette Interface 4 Sale (Was: RE: TRON Movie Soundtrack LP)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Speaking of Tomita....on his "Bermuda Triangle" album (mine is on > blue vinyl......) he included an encoded message that required > > Majorly cool color. > > someone with a Tarbell cassette interface to read. I never had the > necessary equipment, and it's always bugged me as to what the > message was. Has anyone here ever decoded it? I'm not sure who I'm replying to, as someone's quoting mechanism is working even worse than Outlook's.... But what a coincidence that I'm planning to put a Tarbell Casette Interface up on E-Bay today. My reserve price will be $100, and while it does not include documentation, and I have not tested it, I am including a 1983 Tarbell Electronics catalog (ok, big woo). I thought I'd post here in case someone didn't want to fight the traffic; plus it'd save me a few bucks for the posting. -doug q

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Do I look Rich ?

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: John R. Keys Jr. <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, June 26, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: Do I look Rich ? >Had a guy e-mail me that wanted to sell a Osborne (do not which model) >but he wanted $3,500 and was not sure if it worked. That's what happens >when you get your name in the paper. If anyone else wants it let me >know. >John Keys > Did you tell him that computers are an investment that don't normally appreciate from their original purchase price (with the possible exception of Apple Is and Altairs)? Tell him I'll sell him an equally collectible Amiga 1000 for a very reasonable $2500. Seriously though, if anyone on-list want an original A1000 in its original box, with original keyboard but a replacement mouse (copies of Kickstart and WB 1.2 included, no manuals) I have one available. I'll take Amiga or Atari ST software (or most anything else Amiga-related) in trade. Cheers, Mark.

26 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

TRON Movie Soundtrack LP

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>to Clockwork Orange (still as Walter). By the time of >Tron, Walter had become Wendy. Your dates and music are misaligned. the "Walter" was not used during the period and was neither played up or down. It was a itlem of convenience of the record compmanies. However by then it was history. I know as I have all the albums as originals bought when they were originally released and have kept a Yamaha belt drive going for real music. ;) She is one of many talents that took electronics and rather than make Rover howl, did achieve serious music. Allison

26 years, 1 month

10
13
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Query about Meyers Computer Services of Jersey Shore, PA

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Has anyone done business with Richard Meyers > of Meyers Computer Services (Jersey Shore, PA)? Ok, I called him, he called me back, VERY busy guy, good intentions, is sending me another unit. He tested this one to make sure it at least spins up (it was strange that while the auction ad made no mention of whether the drive had or had not been tested, that they still offered a 2-day DOA warranty). For my part, I'd decided that if a second unit is bad, hey, it was only $15.00, so no real harm done. But getting a working one means a lot, so I'm hoping this one will be good. At any rate, I feel safe saying that this guy runs a good business, and I'll probably buy >from him again, should the opportunity arise, whether the second unit works or not. -doug q

26 years, 1 month

2
1
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Query about Meyers Computer Services of Jersey Shore, PA

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Has anyone done business with Richard Meyers of Meyers Computer Services (Jersey Shore, PA)? Here's why I ask... After the many invectives launched here towards E-bay (but prior to my post defending them), I decided to check out haggle.com. Almost right off the bat, I found something I wanted for a great price- a Seagate 11200ND diff SCSI drive. I won the item, and received it on Wednesday. It was Friday before I got around to trying it- and it's DOA. Won't spin up; I can hear what might be the heads trying to unpark, or maybe it's the drive motor trying to start. But negatory. Additionally, three SMD devices appear to have been removed from the drive's interface PCB. Very strange. I sent him e-mail on Friday w/r/t its status as DOA; the description for the item gave it a 2-day DOA warranty. He appears to be very busy; I spoke to a subordinate, who took my info and said he'd contact mr. meyers about it, and I'd be contacted back. All the feedback on haggle for him is glowing; I'm willing to believe he really is a busy guy and that he (or a subordinate) just grabbed a drive off the wrong pile and shipped it to me. An honest mistake. Should I be apprehensive about this? Hey, I'd only be out $15 if I get no resolution, so it's not going to be the end of the world. Just thought I'd ask before I cop an attitude... tia, -doug q

26 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Do I look Rich ?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Had a guy e-mail me that wanted to sell a Osborne (do not which model) > but he wanted $3,500 and was not sure if it worked. That's what happens > when you get your name in the paper. If anyone else wants it let me > know. John- You just need to polish up your social engineering skills. ;-) I got a Prime 2455 for shipping costs only; the owner wanted... ...drum roll, please... ten thousand american dollars for this wonderful little machine. The process did entail one $25 phone call to Arizona, and a few shorter/cheaper ones, listening to his anxiety over marrying off the first of his daughters (late, at age 29), and such. But it paid off. -doug q

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Do I look Rich ?

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

But you also had quite a few freebies after the article. So I guess that it was mostly positive. And you probably had a good laugh when you read that guys e-mail. Let's do pizza or something Francois PS: Yeah you must be rich, You were in the paper:) >Had a guy e-mail me that wanted to sell a Osborne (do not which model) >but he wanted $3,500 and was not sure if it worked. That's what happens >when you get your name in the paper. If anyone else wants it let me >know. >John Keys >

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Do I look Rich ?

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Had a guy e-mail me that wanted to sell a Osborne (do not which model) but he wanted $3,500 and was not sure if it worked. That's what happens when you get your name in the paper. If anyone else wants it let me know. John Keys

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Query about Meyers Computer Services of Jersey Shore, PA

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> ...three SMD devices appear to have been removed > > Sure they're not just board options that > weren't placed? Pads for unplaced devices have a decidedly different appearance (in my experience) than what I see here. Usually, the pads are shiny with solder, a remnant I assume of wave soldering or some other similar manufacturing technology. For a given device, a few lead pads will be shiny, some *black*, and some kinda look lke they've been pulled up off the board. Sombody had a steady hand, I'll say that for sure. Either that, or these chips blew themselves off the board. I wish I had a photomicroscope so I could take a picture- you'd see what I mean. As I said in my post, I'm assuming he gets lots of these, and he just grabbed this one off the wrong pile. -dq

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

HP-1000E PSU

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > I'm working even more blindly than usual, so could you give me a clue and > at least describe the basic topology of the PSU. I wish. I don't actually have one of these power supplies in front of me right now, just a couple of so-so printed copies of photos showing what it should look like with the top cover off. One photo for the configuration that supports battery backup, one photo for the configuration that doesn't. You can see the latter (which shows what I think rdd has) at http://www.reanimators.org/tmp/1000E-ps.jpeg -- it's about 50KB. Maybe this will help you more than it helps me. What I don't see in the photos is the big transformer-like hunk of iron that I'd expect in a linear power suppply, and the dark spaces don't look big enough to hold one. So I'm thinking it's a switcher. -Frank McConnell

26 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Creating empty RM03 under Bob's emulator

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hello All, When I create an empty RM03 under Bob's emulator witht the badblock option and then mount it under RSX, it complains, telling me that it is an alignment pack! Is there a way to get around this problem? Using FMT does not help either, a similar message is returned. When using RT-11, INI doesn't do anything, it just hangs. Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: zakken- http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | vullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R / '97 TL1000S | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

26 years, 1 month

2
2
0 0

Creating empty RM03 under Bob's emulator

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

On Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 06:09:36PM +0000, wanderer wrote: >When I create an empty RM03 under Bob's emulator witht the badblock >... >When using RT-11, INI doesn't do anything, it just hangs. John Wilson asked: >With what driver? Pre-V5.5 versions of RT-11 come with the "DP:" driver, but this doesn't do RM03's, just RP02's and RP03's. It wouldn't suprise me if it got confused when you hooked a RM03 (real or emulated) to a system and tried to access it with the "DP:" driver, but that's "operator error". There are several DECUS-distributed RM03 device drivers for RT-11, and there were also a couple of commercial ones sold by third parties in the 1980's. The most likely DECUS driver is library entry 11-517, "System Device Handler For RM02, RM03, RP04, RP05, RP06 and RT-11 V4". -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

MicroPDP-11/73 Goes to Evil Lurker

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:48:37 -0400 Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> writes: > I guess that's probably an unfair remark, but someone > who lurked on that auction until I went to sleep last > night beat me by a dollar. I knew that could happen > but I was hoping it wouldn't. Thus go the perils of > bidding at auctions. I always bid using a high-powered rifle w/telescopic sight. ;^) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MicroPDP-11/73 Goes to Evil Lurker

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

I guess that's probably an unfair remark, but someone who lurked on that auction until I went to sleep last night beat me by a dollar. I knew that could happen but I was hoping it wouldn't. Thus go the perils of bidding at auctions. So, I want to thank everyone for the very useful suggestions on transporting the unit. It would eventually have been fun to play with, even though my interest in DEC is pretty much limited to the DEC-10, and since DEC had enough trouble keeping them running, no way I'd try if I could even find one. Speaking of the DEC-10, Paul Allen was going to put a TOAD online running TOPS-10; does anyone know if that ever came about? -dq

26 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Paul Allen's TOAD (was: Re: MicroPDP-11/73 Goes to Evil Lurke r)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Speaking of the DEC-10, Paul Allen was going to > > put a TOAD online running TOPS-10; does anyone > > know if that ever came about? > > I know that some folks have accounts and use the machine - > I should have sent my request in when > the offer was originally posted.... :-( Well, it sounds like somebody is keeping the electricity turned on... Gee, I was going to offer Paul my copy of the DEC-10 Commands Manual (this is the heavier paper version, not the "phone book" styled pub) for perpetual access. Now I guess it's E-bay destined... -dq

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Whatever happened to CHAC?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Whatever happened to CHAC (The Computer History Association of California)? I haven't heard anything from them, nor seen new issues of their journal, in several years now. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

TRON Movie Soundtrack LP

by foo＠siconic.com

I found the soundtrack to Tron on vinyl at a local thrift shop today. It's in nearly prefect condition. Did I score? Too bad I don't have a record player so I can listen to it :( Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 1 month

5
6
0 0

TRON Movie Soundtrack LP

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>My interests there stem from over 40 years' association with Laurens >Hammond's invention back in the 30's. which by definition is the one of the >earliest known 'synthesizers' with a very user-friendly interface. Too bad >they are so danged heavy. I have three of them: B3, M3 and X77. Let me know if you need any parts or manuals on these. I used to service them and when I sold the business about 20 years ago, I kept the manuals and the parts I carried in my vehicle. I know I still have things like vibrato scanner washers and mercotac's, etc. Dan

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Anyone have any info on this Motorola computer?

by whdawson＠mlynk.com

Any information, general to specific, on the Motorola model M68SetDS351 all-in-one, dual 5.25 floppy drive, computer will be greatly appreciated. Yes, this is the one on eBay. I'm trying to decide if it is worth the shipping cost. Here's a picture of the machine: http://www.wpic.com/whdawson/classiccmp/motorola.jpg Thanks, Bill Dawson whdawson(a)mlynk.com <mailto:whdawson@mlynk.com> ?

26 years, 1 month

2
2
0 0

Building a better "old" computer

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 12:16:00PM -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: [..snip..] > >And if the Series Two is still vaporware, then all I can > >say is that is a _very_ old tradition in the microcomputer > >field, > > Sure is. This isn't the right way to evoke feelings of nostalgia in > customers though! ROFL! -dq

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Building a better "old" computer

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 09:48:57AM -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > >You can buy a brand-spanking-new IMSAI 8080 that has 1 meg > >of bank-switched static RAM and a 20mHz Z-80 (actually Z-280?) > >processor for under US$1000. I'd say that qualifies for an > >excellent "old" new computer. > > Actually last time I checked, you could only *order* that machine, not > buy one, as they didn't/don't exist yet (still debugging the prototype). > And it's not an IMSAI 8080 by a long shot, it's a completely different > machine stuck in a familiar-looking box. So it doesn't address the > original poster's point of building a better-than-1979 machine using > 1979 components. Point to John: the machine offered for sale is called an IMSAI Series Two, not an IMSAI 8080. However, its arguable that many existing IMSAI 8080s ceased being IMSAI 8080s when the owners stuck in a Cromemco ZPU, a TDL Z-80 CPU board, or somesuch. However, quoting from the main web page: : Delivery is currently 6 to 8 weeks from the date of order. : Please check with us for confirmation of shipping date. : : Assembled IMSAI products are shipped factory assembled : and supplied with a no-hassle two-year warranty on parts : and labor UNLESS specified otherwise. See the warranty : details on our ORDER page. Now, I don't have a kilobuck laying around with which to test these statements. But as to my original statement, clearly, people spending $1200 for an original either have little interest in running the thing, or, at very least, want an "original" more so that they can say it is an "original" over and above its value as a working system. If its value as a working system is more important, they'll consider buying the Series Two. And if the Series Two is still vaporware, then all I can say is that is a _very_ old tradition in the microcomputer field, and I think I'll have to write up my experience with Processor Technology and the Sol as an example of this (I still have all the "soon" letters I got from them). regards, doug quebbeman

26 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

HP-1000E PSU

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net> wrote: > Well, I've made the initial tests... seems that the problem may be > before the regulators and after the fuse. Since I didn't have a 21W, Based on the following: > Hooking up the VOM, I got a reading of about 3.5mV for the 5V supply > and between that and zero for everything else. So, it's not completely > dead, but, close to it. And, yes, the fan is spinning. ...I think you may be right. The flowchart goes on to ask: "Is >= 0.6 Volts measured from A3A6TP1 to A3A1TP1? WARNING!! Use VM with Floating GND". If the answer to this question is no, you're supposed to replace the preregulator board (A3A1) or the control board (A3A5). Else, the next question is whether fuse A3A6F1 is blown or missing, in which case you're supposed to replace the fuse, else replace transistor A3A6Q1. Then you go back and look for +5V CPU on the crossover board again. How to decode some of those numbers: Leading A3 is the power supply. A1 is the preregulator control board, which is a vertical board plugged into the power supply motherboard just behind the terminal block near the front of the 1000E. A5 is the control board; it's the vertical board all the way at the back of the power supply. A6 is the power supply mother board. A6F1 looks like it should be a fuse a little bit behind A1, and A6Q1 looks like it should be the largish transistor closest to that fuse. > > adjustment is the +5V ADJ potentiometer that is visible on the power > > Does adjusting that make a difference with any of the other voltages? I don't know. The next couple of tests that the flowchart takes you through are simply "is <some power supply voltage>" in tolerance at the crossover board?", and if the answer is "no" then you get to replace a transistor on the power supply motherboard, or in one case the power supply motherboard. > What's the difference between M and I/O in the supply v. column? I think M is the supply that goes to the memory bus, and I/O is the supply that goes to the I/O bus. > Something tells me to leave this pot alone at this point. Yep. > As I don't have a set of schematics, can anyone tell me what to check next? > Meanwhile, I guess I'll go poking around and see what voltages I can find > in various spots. As Tony points out, there is stuff in there that can knock you on your hindquarters or worse, and I'm guessing that's why you're supposed to use a voltmeter with a floating ground in one of those tests above. Be careful. That said, sorry to take so long writing back, just haven't had time or space between my ears to sit here with the manuals and try to figure things out from them. The curse of gainful employment strikes again. -Frank McConnell

26 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Where can I find 5.25 DS/DD disks?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

No your wrong. I have an AMPROLB, Kaypro (with Turborom) and a VT180 board set up that way. If you having problems with 3.5" media, stop using recycled AOL disks and trash out the bad drives. Allison -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, June 24, 2000 11:12 PM Subject: Re: Where can I find 5.25 DS/DD disks? >On Sat, 24 Jun 2000, allisonp wrote: >> If all else and it's possible, upgrade the drive used to a 3.5". Some > >Not necessarily a good idea. 3.5" floppies aren't as durable as 5-1/4" >floppies. > >-- >R. D. Davis >rdd(a)perqlogic.com >http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd >410-744-4900 >

26 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Yo

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:06 AM 6/23/00 -0400, Steve Robertson wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: FBA [mailto:fauradon@mn.mediaone.net] >> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 6:04 PM >> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: Yo >> >> Even though the reply had a funny touch to it how else do you >> expect to have >> your collection survive you? > >When I die, my collection is up for grabs... First one here can have it all. >Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> That's an idea but I'm afraid that between you and Mike "DogAss" I wouldn't live very long. :-/ Joe

26 years, 1 month

7
6
0 0

TI-99 power, voice synth

by Marion.Bates＠dartmouth.edu

--- "Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)" wrote: TI, at one time, was planning to offer additional speech words through plug-in rom modules. (The basic Speech Synthesizer only has about 250 words in it). TI changed its mind, and offered additional words via the "Terminal Emulator" cartridge. --- end of quote --- Wow -- I need to take another look. Owen said the same thing yesterday, and like I told him, I can't even see where a plug-in module would make contact with anything but plastic. Weird. Thanks for the info! -- MB

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Where to get ancient media

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

Just a note to the group: Maxell still produces 5.25" DS/DD media with a "lifetime" warranty. (Lifetime of what -- me or the diskette???) They are available for $5 per box of ten from MCM Electronics: www.mcmelectronics.com or 1-800-543-4330 As Allison mentioned, the diskettes will probably outlast the drives! Regards, Glen 0/0

26 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Building a better "old" computer

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >You can buy a brand-spanking-new IMSAI 8080 that has 1 meg > >of bank-switched static RAM and a 20mHz Z-80 (actually Z-280?) > >processor for under US$1000. I'd say that qualifies for an > >excellent "old" new computer. > > First Z280 didn't need bank switch as it had a 24bit MMU. Second if > it has Z280 production would be hard as Zilong endof lifed it some 6 > years ago. > > Likely is Z180 or Z380. You're right, it's Z180, I wrote that part of the post before doublechecking the web page, then didn't edit the earlier writing. -dq

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

TI-99 power, voice synth

by Marion.Bates＠dartmouth.edu

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26 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Find Update

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well finally got all of the stuff off the van and into storage, plus picked up some other goodies at the thrift's in the last couple days. Here the short list minus items not 10 years old or older. 1. Apple RGB monitor model A9M0308 2. Computereyes Video Digitizer B/W for the Mac 3. Box full Apple cards for the Apple II series. 4. Box of early Mac mice and cables 5. HP Thinkjet model 2225D 6. Kodak DataShow in box cat # 809-3346 7. TI Silent 700 Data Terminal with the adapter not tested yet. 8. HP Apollo model 715/50 9. IBM 3196 Display Station Problem Solving Guide 10. Another HP 9144 16 Track model 9144A 11. HPJet Direct cart 12. Epson (HX20) mod for 3M and renamed Myocare Plus Programmer model 6800 with a strange cable made by LEMO. 13. DiskDrive Exerciser by Magnetic Peripherals with the following numbers on it; TB-118A, PN 77833135E, Series code 02. No power supply with it and it looks to have a strange connector. Anyone know about this unit ? Again that's the short list due ages of other items, so it turned out to be a good week for collecting. John Keys

26 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Building a better "old" computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Actually last time I checked, you could only *order* that machine, not >buy one, as they didn't/don't exist yet (still debugging the prototype). >And it's not an IMSAI 8080 by a long shot, it's a completely different >machine stuck in a familiar-looking box. So it doesn't address the >original poster's point of building a better-than-1979 machine using >1979 components. Amen! >- Backplane busses could have been done a lot more carefully, e.g. > differential signal pairs, or at the very least O.C. with terminators > at both ends (worked well for the Unibus). Actually the S100 was cleaned up a bit and would run nicely at 8mb/s for split or 16mb/s for unified word mode. But multibus and STDbus were already better standards. >- Doing fancy timing (e.g. RAS-CAS) using RC delays, one-shots, analog delay > lines, lots of gates in series etc. was a Bad Idea. Using a few flip-flops > clocked by a fast xtal clock might require an extra chip or two, but once > you get it working it will keep on working. The better boards did that, alone with 4layer etch. Dram and two layers was at best problematic. >- SCSI-1/SCSI-2, IDE, and probably other supposedly "modern" interfaces > could have been done with 1979 parts. At the time, the expense of giving > each peripheral its own CPU (or microcontroller at least) would have been > prohibitive, but if money were no object it would have been nice to have > some more open standards catch on, since the market was pretty fragmented > for no good reason. Floppies were absolute hell in this regard too. Typical system with a HD in the 79-81 timeframe liekly had two CPUs one for the HD alone! Teletek, Konan for example. There wer floppy cards with local cpu too to further unburden the main cpu. >- Things might have been more stable if microcomputers had separated the > ideas of "CPU bus" and "peripheral bus" earlier on. For the longest time, > the peripheral bus was always just a buffered version of the CPU bus, depends on the bus std. Multibus and STDbus for example. > which led to lots of timing problems and incompatibilities when you > changed to a different or faster CPU. But having something that's easy > to interface and has simple timing, like what the ISA bus became (after > having the same problem for a while), would have been a good thing, as ISA was multibus with broken interrupts and no bus ack handshake, same timing and interface otherwise. More interesting formfactor though. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Building a better "old" computer

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Based on what the current computer industry knows about building computers, > would it be possible to build a better Z80 based computer today, using the > same chips that the builders in, say, 1979 had available? > > I heard someone say that the manufacturers did the best they could with what > they had to work with "back then," and I started to wonder if we could do it > better today. Has our understanding of how it all works improved enough to > do it better now, using the same chips, etc.? You can buy a brand-spanking-new IMSAI 8080 that has 1 meg of bank-switched static RAM and a 20mHz Z-80 (actually Z-280?) processor for under US$1000. I'd say that qualifies for an excellent "old" new computer. -dq

26 years, 1 month

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Building a better "old" computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Even better.. Today you could use one of the modern chips (pentium) to emulate >the Z80, probably at unheard of speeds, with full access to all the internal >registers (after all the pentium would be keeping those registers in memory >somewhere..) You could and then you have one of the Z80 emulators. >Using original parts we may not be able to make a better computer than then, but >using modern parts, perhaps we can make it smaller and faster, even using a Z80 >memory is denser (and cheaper) today than then, right? <imho> using a standard Z84C010 (cmos 10mhz) and common cache rams I could easily do a z80 1mb 10mhz machine. It's not hard. Use a Z180S00 and 33mhz is possible. With cheap, dense fast static memory most of the old designs get real simple and can go faster. The best example is a proto I've build using a Z84C50 (z80/10mhz with clock + wait state management, 1k ram) in a clone of the amproLB using static ram (eliminates 15 DIPS) making is a fairly bare board. It runs at 8mhz due to limits in the SIO and CTC parts I had. I wanted it to run the same boot and BIOS so I used what I had. If I were to do the latest and greatest I'd go with Z380 as it will run Z80 native and make the IO a z180 slave, then the only limits would eb the how fast can the Z380 go (20mhz is common part and it executes Z80 instructions in about half the clocks). Allison > >Ernest wrote: > >> Based on what the current computer industry knows about building computers, >> would it be possible to build a better Z80 based computer today, using the >> same chips that the builders in, say, 1979 had available? >> >> I heard someone say that the manufacturers did the best they could with what >> they had to work with "back then," and I started to wonder if we could do it >> better today. Has our understanding of how it all works improved enough to >> do it better now, using the same chips, etc.? >> >> Just curious, >> >> Ernest >

26 years, 1 month

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Guy needs help building collection in UK

by vcf＠siconic.com

Can anyone in the UK help this guy out? Reply-to: dh8987mary3(a)netscapeonline.co.uk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 05:46:50 -0700 From: DAVID HOLDSWORTH <dh8987mary3(a)netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: VCF Feedback! i would like to ask if any one in the uk could donate any old computers to my small colection.as i aam dissabled and i love old pc.s computers of any kind .i also collect old radios dating back to 1945 especially valved radios working or not.please help if you can thankss my phone no is 01493 300955 . uk Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 1 month

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DD disks and HD drives (was: Where can I find...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, June 25, 2000 9:56 AM Subject: RE: DD disks and HD drives (was: Where can I find...) >> I do it all the time, no problem. Key thing is while the drives >> are HD capable (TEAC FD55GFV) I happen to have them >> jumpered as required to properly run DD mode. In this >> mode they are plain DD, DS 96 TP! drives. ^^^^^^^^^^ I repeat for the impaired 96 TPI. > >Does setting that jumper cause them to write double-tracks, NO. >then (as ISTR that the HD drives wrote tracks that were >half-width, and someone used to sell a software package Yes, thats the ppoint of using 96TPI drives... to get more tracks. >that wrote an HD-width track, stepped the head, then >wrote an adjacent HD-width track to create pseudo-DD >tracks)? You can but, the reliability of the read data sucks to be blunt. I said that you ccan do this in an earlier post if you needed some special project hack to get you by. I don't as a good 48tpi drive does a far better job and swapping it is no big deal. I used 5.25 96tpi two sided double density for one reason easy to get and use storage space. That mode does 720 or 782k depening on the formatting were an older 48tpi drive will do 360k. Where 1.2mb used funky media, data rates and all that are not easily found on NON-PC systems. Back in the old days using DD on a 96tpi drive was called QD. >Hey, precisely what jumper is that? I ave five different versions of the FD55-GF drives and they are all different. So I did a lot of guessing and tried them until it worked. A manual would have helped. I also ahve a few FD55Fs (also 96tpi DD two sided without ability to do the oddball 1.2mb format). Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Building a better "old" computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

-----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, June 25, 2000 9:55 AM Subject: RE: Building a better "old" computer >You can buy a brand-spanking-new IMSAI 8080 that has 1 meg >of bank-switched static RAM and a 20mHz Z-80 (actually Z-280?) >processor for under US$1000. I'd say that qualifies for an >excellent "old" new computer. First Z280 didn't need bank switch as it had a 24bit MMU. Second if it has Z280 production would be hard as Zilong endof lifed it some 6 years ago. Likely is Z180 or Z380. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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DD disks and HD drives (was: Where can I find...)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Well you left out all the caveats. > > I do it all the time, no problem. Key thing is while the drives > are HD capable (TEAC FD55GFV) I happen to have them > jumpered as required to properly run DD mode. In this > mode they are plain DD, DS 96 TP! drives. Does setting that jumper cause them to write double-tracks, then (as ISTR that the HD drives wrote tracks that were half-width, and someone used to sell a software package that wrote an HD-width track, stepped the head, then wrote an adjacent HD-width track to create pseudo-DD tracks)? Hey, precisely what jumper is that? -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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OT: Tech Support Fun

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

> >A woman called the Canon help desk with a problem with her printer. The tech asked her if she was "running it under Windows." The woman responded, "No, my desk is next to the door. But that's a good point. The man sitting in the cubicle next to me is under a window, and his is working fine." >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Tech Support: "OK Bob, let's press the control and escape keys at the same time. That brings up a task list in the middle of the screen. Now type the letter 'P' to bring up the Program Manager." >Customer: "I don't have a 'P'." >Tech Support: "On your keyboard, Bob." >Customer: "What do you mean?" >Tech Support: "'P' on your keyboard, Bob." >Customer: "I'm not going to do that!" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Overheard in a computer shop: >Customer: "I'd like a mouse mat, please." >Salesperson: "Certainly sir, we've got a large variety." >Customer: "But will they be compatible with my computer?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >I once received a fax with a note on the bottom to fax the document back to the sender when I was finished with it, because he needed to keep it. >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Customer in computer shop: "Can you copy the Internet onto this disk for me?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >I work for a local ISP. Frequently we receive phone calls that start something like this: >Customer: "Hi. Is this the Internet?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Customer: "So that'll get me connected to the Internet, right?" >Tech Support: "Yeah." >Customer: "And that's the latest version of the Internet, right?" >Tech Support: "Uhh...uh...uh...yeah." >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Tech Support: "All right...now double-click on the File Manager icon." >Customer: "That's why I hate this Windows - because of the icons - I'm a Protestant, and I don't believe in icons." >Tech Support: "Well, that's just an industry term sir. I don't believe it was meant to -" Customer: "I don't care about any 'Industry Terms'. I don't believe in icons." >Tech Support: "Well...why don't you click on the 'little picture' of a filing cabinet...is 'little picture' OK?" >Customer: [click] >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Customer: "My computer crashed!" >Tech Support: "It crashed?" >Customer: "Yeah, it won't let me play my game." >Tech Support: "All right, hit Control-Alt-Delete to reboot." >Customer: "No, it didn't crash - it crashed." >Tech Support: "Huh?" >Customer: "I crashed my game. That's what I said before. I crashed my spaceship and now it doesn't work." >Tech Support: "Click on 'File,' then 'New Game.'" >Customer: [pause]: "Wow! How'd you learn how to do that?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Got a call from a woman said that her laser printer was having problems: the bottom half of her printed sheets were coming out blurry. It seemed strange that the printer was smearing only the bottom half. I walked her through the basics, then went over and printed out a test sheet. It printed fine. I asked her to print a sheet, so she sent a job to the printer. As the paper started coming out, she yanked it out and showed it to me. I told her to wait until the paper came out on its own. Problem solved. >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >I had been doing Tech Support for Hewlett-Packard's DeskJet division for about a month when I had a customer call with a problem I just couldn't solve. She could not print yellow. All the other colors would print fine, which truly baffled me because the only true colors are cyan, magenta, and yellow. For instance, green is a combination of cyan and yellow, but green >printed fine. Every color of the rainbow printed fine except for yellow. I had the customer change ink cartridges. I had the customer delete and reinstall the drivers. Nothing worked. I asked my coworkers for help; they offered no new ideas. After over two hours of troubleshooting, I was about to tell the customer to send the printer in to us for repair when she asked >quietly, "Should I try printing on a piece of white paper instead of this yellow paper?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >A man attempting to set up his new printer called the printer's tech support number, complaining about the error message: "Can't find the printer." On the phone, the man said he even held the printer up in front of the screen, but the computer still couldn't find it. >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >And another user was all confused about why the cursor always moved in the opposite direction from the movement of the mouse. She also complained that the buttons were difficult to depress. She was very embarrassed when we asked her to rotate the mouse so the tail pointed away from her. >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Customer: "Hello? I'm trying to dial in. I installed the software okay, and it dialed fine. I could hear that. Then I could hear the two computers connecting. But then the sound all stopped, so I picked up the phone to see if they were still connected, and I got the message, 'No carrier,' on my screen. What's wrong?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >An unfailingly polite lady called to ask for help with a Windows installation that had gone terribly wrong. >Customer: "I brought my Windows disks from work to install them on my home computer." Training stresses that we are "not the Software Police," so I let the little act of piracy slide. >Tech Support: "Umm-hmm. What happened?" >Customer: "As I put each disk in it turns out they weren't initialized. >Tech Support: "Do you remember the message exactly, ma'am?" >Customer: (proudly) "I wrote it down. 'This is not a Macintosh disk. Would you like to initialize it?" >Tech Support: "Er, what happened next?" >Customer: "After they were initialized, all the disks appeared to be blank. And now I brought them back to work, and I can't read them in the A: drive; the PC wants to format them. And this is our only set of Windows disks for the whole office. Did I do something wrong?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >For a computer programming class, I sat directly across from someone, and our computers were facing away from each other. A few minutes into the class, she got up to leave the room. I reached between our computers and switched the inputs for the keyboards. She came back and started typing and immediately got a distressed look on her face. She called the tutor over and explained that no matter what she typed, nothing would happen. The tutor tried everything. By this time I was hiding behind my monitor and quaking red-faced. I typed, "Leave me alone! They both jumped back as this appeared on their screen. "What the..." the tutor said. I typed, "I said leave me alone!" The kid got real upset. "I didn't do anything to it, I swear!" It was all I could do to keep from laughing out loud. The conversation between them and HAL 2000 went on for an amazing five minutes. > >Me: "Don't touch me!" >Her: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hit your keys that hard." >Me: "Who do you think you are anyway?!" Etc. > >Finally, I couldn't contain myself any longer, and fell out of my chair laughing. After they had realized what I had done, they both turned beet red. Funny, I never got more than a C- in that class. >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >This guy calls in to complain that he gets an "Access Denied" message every time he logs in. It turned out he was typing his username and password in capital letters. >Tech Support: "Ok, let's try once more, but use lower case letters." >Customer: "Uh, I only have capital letters on my keyboard." >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >Email from a friend: "CanYouFixTheSpaceBarOnMyKeyboard?" >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS > >My friend was on duty in the main lab on a quiet afternoon. He noticed a young woman sitting in front of one of the workstations with her arms crossed across her chest, staring at the screen. After about 15 minutes he noticed That she was still in the same position, only now she was impatiently tapping her foot. He asked if she needed help and she replied: "It's about time! I pressed the F1 button over twenty minutes ago!" >

26 years, 1 month

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Building a better "old" computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>of "better" that you use. I've recently been fiddling with techniques for >taking what was, back in 1982, considered a pretty good implementation of >the general case of Z80 application, e.g. the Ferguson Big Board, which used >the standard Z80, and NOT the Z80-A which ran at 4 MHz instead of the >standard Z80's 2.5 MHz. I've got a number of these boards so I can test the In 1982 that was a low end example. DECs VT180 was a 4 serial port, 4mhz, no wait states With DD floppy design. It was ment to go in a VT100 so video was not needed. My NS* S100 crate in 1978 was running at 4mhz even. In the z80 world there were those that used Z80 peripherals and live with the limits they imposed and those that went with other parts. What was the limits? Price, they were not cheap and they were SLOW. By 1982 a Z80 not running at at least 4mhz was considered slow and by 1983 that would be 6mhz. Parts existed to do that. >in place of potentially better chips because they did make the design dirt >simple and the supported some features that other devices didn't support, >e.g. Z80 mode-2 interrupts. Mode 2 was supportable without Z80 parts, easy and cheap to do. >the Ferguson BigBoard, i.e four parallel ports four serial ports, local >video and using a parallel keyboard rather than a terminal, using a single >device, i.e. an FPGA or CPLD (take your pick)and one memory IC. When you're >done, you 'll have a CPU that operates at about 25 MHz, a double/single >density FDC, the parallel and serial capabilities and other features of the >Ferguson board. I don't know whether the result will be better. Try a Z180 part at 33mhz, SCC or other all on one chip like the SMC92667 and static ram on a 3x4" board. Takes very little glue to do that. The question goes mroe to price and creative engineering. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Building a better "old" computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Based on what the current computer industry knows about building computers, >would it be possible to build a better Z80 based computer today, using the >same chips that the builders in, say, 1979 had available? Yes. Though finding the parts would be hard. >I heard someone say that the manufacturers did the best they could with what >they had to work with "back then," and I started to wonder if we could do it >better today. Has our understanding of how it all works improved enough to >do it better now, using the same chips, etc.? For pre micro processor... there were designs that did thig with transistors and later SSI that were way ahead of the pack so the answer was yes and no also. For the z80 case: Yes and no. Some designs the designer was doing the best they could though the parts were more capable. Many cases the goal was to meet a price so that limits you. There were some very capable designs. But, using the same parts you could have done better then assuming the budget (size, power, $$$$) allowed it. Can you do better now using current parts and reusing old z80s, yes. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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RA81 problem :(

by peter＠joules0.demon.co.uk

I haven't used my MicroVAX II in some time, and one of it's RA81s wont spin up. It starts to spin, for about 1 second, and then cuts out and, after pressing the 'fault button' it leaves the fault light on and the 'B' light flashing. According to the RA81 user manual the cause is 'spin error' (I could probably have told _them_ that ;-). Can anyone give me any advice on whether it is possible to resurrect the HDA? If not, I have another drive which has no fans so I can make a good one out of the two but the one which has gone down contains my only copy of VMS. Is it drag in the bearings which is causing it to cut out whilst the motor is accelerating it? If so is it possible to lubricate them without opening up the HDA? -- Regards Pete

26 years, 1 month

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DD disks and HD drives (was: Where can I find...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Well you left out all the caveats. I do it all the time, no problem. Key thing is while the drives are HD capable (TEAC FD55GFV) I happen to have them jumpered as required to properly run DD mode. In this mode they are plain DD, DS 96 TP! drives. Allison -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, June 24, 2000 11:06 PM Subject: DD disks and HD drives (was: Where can I find...) >On Sat, 24 Jun 2000, Tony Duell wrote: >> DD drives or that DD disks can be used in HD drives _as HD disks_ (most >> HD drives can also handle DD disks, but only to store the amount of data >> that you'd get from a DD drive anyway). > >One word of caution regarding the use of DD disks in HD drives: it's >been my experience that which this may appear to work, problems >sometimes arise when one attempts to read the data written in a DD disk >by an HD drive. It's only reliable as long as you're using the same >drive; on quite a few occasions over the years I've had this happen when >attempting this. So, it's safest to write to DD disks with DD drives, >although this should be readable by any HD drive. > >-- >R. D. Davis >rdd(a)perqlogic.com >http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd >410-744-4900 >

26 years, 1 month

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Question about TK50Z-?A

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>I would appreciate some help from anyone who knows >about the difference between a: > >TK50Z-GA and a TK50Z-FA. The long and short of it is nearly none and everything. the are the same mechanically, same boards, same drive same for everything save two things... SCSI address and one does not talk modern SCSI software protocal. IE: the difference is firmware on the SCSI to TK50 board. FYI: one is specifically for MV2000 and the other is useable on many later SCSI systems (other than MV2000). What I've forgotten is which is which. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Where can I find 5.25 DS/DD disks?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>First, where is the best place to buy some new ones? I don't know, I have enough to keep me going for years. >Second, does any manufacturer still produce this media, and what is the >shelf life? Basically, what I'm asking here is, will our 5.25 drives become >useless before too much longer? Not likely. I have 5.25 media that is 20+ years and still good. It's likely you have things reversed, the drive may fail first. ;) >I remember a discussion on the group a while back regarding the use of HD >media in DD drives. After reading about two thousand messages more >complicated than quantum mechanics, I gave up trying to figure it out :-) >So now I've resigned myself to seek the newest 5.25 DS/DD disks that I can >find. Any help appreciated! Long live my Commodore 128! NO majik, the darker HD media is for 1.2mb use and the ligher brownish media is for all others. the other half is do not use 96tpi drives to *reliabily* write 48tpi media or the reverse (special projects and emergency cases may be a reasonable exception). If all else and it's possible, upgrade the drive used to a 3.5". Some systems can do this easily some can with some programming work, some cannot easily be modded. Above all else keep media in a cool dry place, avoid direct sunlight. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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TI-99 power, voice synth

by mrdos＠swbell.net

I think that the original idea behind that compartment was that TI would release vocabulary modules that would fit in there, but I could be wrong. I saw a working TI-99 at a thrift store yesterday. It has a power supply, but I didn't get it because I already have one. I'll see if I can pick it up tomorrow. If so, you can have the power supply. -----Original Message----- From: Marion Bates <Marion.Bates(a)dartmouth.edu> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, June 24, 2000 2:03 PM Subject: TI-99 power, voice synth Heya, I recently picked up a TI-99/4A at the local thrift store, but couldn't find the power cable. Anyone got a spare or know where I might look online to find one? Also, I found with it the voice synthesis module. Like the Intellivision, it's a pass-through cartridge thing, but there's a flip-up door and some sort of compartment in it -- what the heck is THAT for? Thanks... -- MB

26 years, 1 month

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Question about TK50Z-?A

by jhfine＠idirect.com

I would appreciate some help from anyone who knows about the difference between a: TK50Z-GA and a TK50Z-FA. I am able to get a TK50Z-GA working under a SCSI host adapter (CQD-220/TM) on a Qbus system (I set the SCSI ID=4) and I see a standard TK50 tape drive under RT-11. But, I also suspect that the TK50Z-FA is probably broken. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine

26 years, 1 month

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Licenses (was Re: Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Would that mean that a "shared" (I realize that back in 1988, shared disk >drives were probably not generally available - and if they were would probably >have cost more than extra distributions of the software) disk drive could have >been used at one location connected by "short" cables to many computers? Ah but, they were available, LAPLINK, lantastic and ohers were around. It wasn't cheap but the SHARE.EXE was part of dos 3.3 and later. Compared to the costs of large disks then the price was appealing. >OR as an alternative, it would seem to be very possible to use a server >which had the only disk copy and execute the software on each local >computer by the many students reading the book from different positions >at the same table? Overhead projector? Schools used them. >But aside from such considerations, the general substance of the license >was that Borland, even in 1988, was trusting large companies to have >purchased sufficient copies of the software. PLUS, once purchased, there >was no attempt of any kind to prevent a user from transferring the right to >use the software to a different user on either the same hardware - if the >computer system was sold - OR on even a completely different, but >compatible, computer system so long as the original software was no >longer installed and being used on the first computer system. True but you left out one thing. Their total goal was a Plain Engilsh license. I read the DELPHI-5 (current) and it's understandable. Read some of the MS licences or others and time for an asprin. >For instance, if Microsoft had gained monopoly control of the internet via its >browser and wanted to stop a boycott of its operating systems, all email >urging such a boycott could end up being "lost" for some unexplained "reason". They are close with MSN being a backbone and IE being part of the OS. For some here that may remember. Back when, There was ABC TV, ABC FM radio and even ABC AM radio, all one company and network (same for NBC, CBS). The FCC saw fit to break that up as it represented a monopoly on communications. Yet we have MS (OS, APPS, content and Browser), MSN their network, and so on. Think about it. As to Mentec, a simple low cost non commercial license for what ever OS/Apps they currently own copyright to would be nice. Further a package of media, manuals and license for current (or one back versions) non commercial without support for a reasonable price would be attractive. then again I have no idea of the current price of a copy of RT-11 (Docs, media and commercial license) goes for. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Zane replied to Allison: >> Do you have any understanding of the computer industry? Do you have any >> understanding of computers larger than your Windows box? Do you even look >> at the licenses of any software you have purchased? I'm fairly sure you >> don't remember the days when you didn't even own the computer, you rented >> it, or rented time on one. I didn't write that but I essentially agree. Consider this you buy a book, you own it to dispose of how you wish (sell, give or burn). You don't buy a license to read it or X many friends to read it. It is property. The copyright means you can't make copies of it (other than limited amounts for reference with attribution) to sell or give away without expressed permission. Software is going the route of, you pay for the media, manuals and support(optional) and also for rights to use under specified conditions as a CONTRACT. There lies the difference. the manuals are property (usually) but the software is provided under some stipulation (even freeware!) regarding it's use. >vendor, you got the software for FREE from the vendor. Allison correctly >pointed out that before some point these damn software licenses didn't >exist. The idea of XYZ Co OWNING the software (copyrighted) is quite old and may preceed the 1960s! At one time computers were only rented. DEC was one of the first to alter that by selling machines outright. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Where can I find 5.25 DS/DD disks?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> I know that 8" is still available for a PRICE! That price isn't very high :-). Admittedly, I get them straight from the manufacturer in large lots, but the price is roughly one-fourth what I was paying in the early 80's, and that isn't even taking inflation into account! Tim.

26 years, 1 month

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Where can I find 5.25 DS/DD disks?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I have a couple of questions regarding 5.25 inch, DS/DD disks... > >First, where is the best place to buy some new ones? Occasionally I find a wholesaler going out of business and selling thousands of boxes of 'em, at prices as low as 10 cents a box. But barring such a surplus find, you can buy them brand new from www.buy.com. At the moment you can get Maxell, Imation, and Verbatim at $4.95 a box >from them, but I've seen prices as low as $2.95 a box. >Second, does any manufacturer still produce this media, and what is the >shelf life? The Imation floppies I've gotten from buy.com were produced in the last year or two. So yes, it's still being made. > Basically, what I'm asking here is, will our 5.25 drives become >useless before too much longer? 5.25" drives, useless soon? I don't think so! I still use 14" removable hard drives! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

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Apple ][ board?

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

Does anyone recognize an Apple ][ board, Interactive Structures Inc, a 34 pin connector, and an AM 25L04PC chip? The only number I could find is 3694 written in ink. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Check out "The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum" at http://www.skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://www.chasfoxvideo.com

26 years, 1 month

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Licenses (was Re: Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I have to make one point here, then I'll slink back into lurk mode. Using the book analogy would not necessarily mean that your licensed software was legally bound to the *CPU* the way the contents of a book are bound to the paper. Making it legally bound to the CPU would be like making the contents of the book legally bound to the room in which you read it; you sell the house, the book goes with it; you want to sell the book, sell the house. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the software contents legally bound to the original media on which it was delivered? This is how books work, and (I think) how most people expect software licensing to work. Licensing to the CPU was just another way to make sure nobody could every reasonably transfer their license to anyone else. If the book publishers did that, they'd be.. uh... out of the mass market. (How many publishers engrave their work into house walls rather than print onto paper? And how many engravings of novels have you bought >from them lately?) Thank God the market rejected it! My point it, software *could* be licensed the way the contents of books are; it need not imply any ill-conceived notions that hinder transferrability, such as binding to a CPU. The holder of the original media could be the legal holder of the license, just as with books. The book analogy could work just fine, and the market has *not* rejected it. Bill. ON Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> wrote: ] ] At 06:59 PM 6/22/00 -0400, Allison wrote: ] >Consider this you buy a book, you own it to dispose of how you wish ] >(sell, give or burn). You don't buy a license to read it or X many friends ] >to read it. It is property. ] ] Sigh. Allison has this part of it wrong, and it is a common problem. ] ] The book *is* the license. The contents (words etc) are licensed to the ] particular bits of paper and cover that you are holding in your hand. When ] you transfer the paper, the words go with it. You are forbidden from ] copying the words off the paper and putting them on to some other piece of ] paper. What you *own* in the book case is some newsprint, some wax, and ] some binder thread *and that is all*. ] ] If you *MUST* use the book analogy, (and it has already appeared twice ] now), understand how it would be implemented in computers: ] ] You license the software and it is licensed (bound) to your CPU. ] You own the CPU and may dispose of it how you wish, however if you ] give it away or burn it or throw it away, the software goes with it! ] Intel tried to make this model possible with their serial number ] scheme but the market rejected it. ] ] So software, unlike books, is licensed to _people_. (or corporations) ] because people and corporations like to be able to change their CPU and not ] bother with relicensing their software. If you throw away the corporation ] then the license gets thrown away too, just like if you had thrown away the ] book. ] ... and much more, deleted...

26 years, 1 month

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Tech Support Fun

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS Ok, true story. Ten plus years ago, in what so far was my last position as a full-time programmer, we had a customer who required that we be able to update their system remotely. The vendor who had failed to deliver their materials handling software on time was using Carbon Copy to handle that update & support function. So, suddenly, we needed to get a copy of Carbon Copy. I wasn't in the loop on that, all I knew was that the boss said I'd be getting this package in the mail, and to install it on the PS/2 Model ?? (one of the desktop MCA machines) that had the modem in it. A few days later, the package arrived. As you might expect, they did not go out and buy a new copy. Upon opening the package, I stared for some time at the first page, trying to imagine how it had come to pass that I was seeing what I was seeing. Apparantly, whoever (at the customer cite) had possesion of the Carbon Copy package, delegated the task to someone who was not quite up to it, but who did their best. I tried to imagine the conversation that accompanied the assignment; without a doubt, the manager handed the manual and diskette to the delegate, and said "and be sure to copy the disk." Because I was staring at a photocopy of a floppy disk. Oh, and page two was a photocopy of the backside of the disk, so at least the delegate in question was complete. TRUE STORY! regards, doug quebbeman

26 years, 1 month

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Am2900 Bipolar Microprocessor Databook

by pat＠transarc.ibm.com

Well, I corresponded with some folks at AMD, and didn't quite get everything I wanted, but this might help somebody. They have approved me making up to 10 copies of the Am2900 databook. My plan is to scan it in and turn it into a PDF file. Therefore, I can only make copies available to 10 people. If you are seriously interested in a copy of this, let me know (John Keys - I assume you'd like a copy, and already have you down for one). If you get a copy of this from me, you may not redistribute it to anyone. You'll also need to be patient, as it may take a week or two for me to get around to doing this. If substantially more than 10 people are interested, I'll go back to them and request further permission, but this was all they felt they could let me do without running my request through legal review. --Pat.

26 years, 1 month

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Yo

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> >When I die, my collection is up for grabs... > > That's an idea but I'm afraid that between you and Mike "DogAss" I > wouldn't live very long. :-/ > > Joe I'm pretty sure your wife would help us load up all that "Junk"... You start feeling sick, just let me know :-) Steve Robertson

26 years, 1 month

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Yo

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: FBA [mailto:fauradon@mn.mediaone.net] > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 6:04 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Yo > > Even though the reply had a funny touch to it how else do you > expect to have > your collection survive you? When I die, my collection is up for grabs... First one here can have it all. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 1 month

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Corvus concept

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I just came across a cardboard paper box that had 11 Corvus concept memory boards in it. Each is about 6" by 6" square. That's all there was. Anyone have an idea what they are? Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu box diver = computer scrounger = ancient programmer

26 years, 1 month

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Licenses (was Re: Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Wouldn't it make more sense to have the software contents legally >bound to the original media on which it was delivered? This is how >books work, and (I think) how most people expect software licensing >to work. Except that you can't use the software until you *copy* it into your computer. The courts have ruled that it's copying whether you read it into RAM or write it to a hard drive. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> If it's at all windy, or even a little breezy, be careful with those >> rack side panels, as they can go flying into something rather easily. >Would it be feasible to remove the skins and set it on its side (on >a quilt)? Yes, that's my preferred way for transporting H9642's when they can't be moved standing up. The quilt is there to protect your truck bed, not the rack :-). Again, make sure the side panels don't blow away, there's a pair of VAX 11/750 top panels *somewhere* along the side of the Santa Monica freeway that disappeared once during a haul of mine... >I'll at least be transferring the plexiglass tape drive window >to the Cipher I have for the Prime. BTW, I asked the seller to >check the rear plate of the TS05, thinking it *is* a Cipher F880 >and he came back and said it has only a TS05 ID plate. > >The front bezel is *identical* to the F880 streamer. Do you know >yea/nay on this? Mechanically, they're identical except for the nameplates. There may be slightly different firmware/electronics, but these vary depending on the F880 rev level anyway. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

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Am2900 Bipolar Microprocessor Databook

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Count me in, please... -doug quebbeman > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Barron [mailto:pat@transarc.ibm.com] > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 3:19 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Am2900 Bipolar Microprocessor Databook > > > Well, I corresponded with some folks at AMD, and didn't quite get > everything I wanted, but this might help somebody. > > They have approved me making up to 10 copies of the Am2900 > databook. My > plan is to scan it in and turn it into a PDF file. > Therefore, I can only > make copies available to 10 people. > > If you are seriously interested in a copy of this, let me > know (John Keys - I > assume you'd like a copy, and already have you down for one). > If you get > a copy of this from me, you may not redistribute it to anyone. You'll > also need to be patient, as it may take a week or two for me > to get around > to doing this. > > If substantially more than 10 people are interested, I'll go > back to them > and request further permission, but this was all they felt > they could let > me do without running my request through legal review. > > --Pat. > >

26 years, 1 month

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RSX-11M for Supnik emulator ?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Speaking of PDP-11 emulators and licenses ... >Is there anywhere I can get an RSX-11M distribution for use with Supnik's >emulator? The current Mentec license appears to permit this (at least, >for RSX-11M V4.3 and previous, or RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or previous), but the >software isn't on the DEC FTP site. Back when the Mentec license became available, I took a copy of my V5.3 kit and packaged it up for Bob Supnik so that he could get it up on the DEC ftp site. Unfortunately, by that time there was simply no-one from the RSX or RSTS groups left to do the same for those systems. And now, Bob Supnik is no longer around, so I don't know who to contact about putting stuff up on the site. Hopefully Mentec could be persuaded to have an archive of distributions available (once they actually allow the hobbyist use)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 1 month

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paging Will Jennings

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Yeah, I'd like to contact him also. . . . ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

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Wirin' up blinkenlights

by Anthony.Eros＠compaq.com

Here's a question for the group. I have a PC running Bob Supnik's PDP-11 simulator and a PDP-11/45 front panel with no CPU boards. I'd like to do sort of a faux PDP-11/45 with this setup by somehow wiring the front panel up to the PC running Sim. Am I completely out of my mind, or is there even the remotest chance of getting something like this to work? -- Tony

26 years, 1 month

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How do you finance/afford your computer collection?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 23, 13:43, Geoff Roberts wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 5:13 AM > Subject: Re: How do you finance/afford your computer collection? > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > which is ridiculous, because "Windows-1252" is a unique Microsoft > > non-standard character set (meant to be similar to ISO 8859-1, but > with a > > unique symbol order), and it's also an 8-bit character set which can't > be > > represented in 7 bits without using base64, uuencode, > quoted-printable, or > > similar. > > > > I'm not complaining, merely informing :-) > > No problem. :^) > > Bloody thing. Thanks for that. I'm going to reach into the registry > settings or whatever and bludgeon it into submission. It seems to be > resetting the charset to whatever I'm replying to, and if I change it, > it only changes for the one msg and then reverts to that. > (Theoretically, it's supposed to be the ISO set not that one.) > I'm going to find out what does this and fix it. I'll let you know how > I get on. Bill Gates has a lot to answer for. Best of luck :-) Several months ago, one of our most senior members of staff (who has been around a long time, and is perfectly happy with text mail, Unix, etc, but has to use a PC for various reasons) sent several long messages to 'support' in mixed HTML+<something else> format, which caused some touble for our support mail system. I politely advised him of this and he said he'd fix it. Well, the next mail was still full of cruft, so I pointed out that we don't support Outlook, and could he please stop using it or set it properly. OK, he replied, in plain text. But the next message was in -- guess what! So I politely mailed him back, just to let him know. There followed a long discussion; basically he refused to beleive his mailer (Outlook) was sending crud because he'd reset it, tested it, and couldn't beleive that his computer/OS could non-deterministically change its own settings. We never did get entirely to the bottom of it, but it seems that in some versions of Outlook, certain settings only apply to that session (ie are reset next time you restart), and some settings are accessible in two places, and you have to change both. We still don't support Outlook, in fact we remove it from view in our standard installs of Windows. But it's still there and people still use it, and it's mostl OK so long as it's set up sensibly. The problem is that Microsoft don't really understand standards like TCP/IP, MIME, DNS, ... (or just don't believe in them). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 1 month

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RSX-11M for Supnik emulator ?

by pat＠transarc.ibm.com

Speaking of PDP-11 emulators and licenses ... Is there anywhere I can get an RSX-11M distribution for use with Supnik's emulator? The current Mentec license appears to permit this (at least, for RSX-11M V4.3 and previous, or RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or previous), but the software isn't on the DEC FTP site. --Pat.

26 years, 1 month

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IBM System/38 Availible (Again)

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Based on my experiences with System/36's, 8100's, and other IBM machinery.. the thing almost certainly has a welded steel frame. I took all the panels off and the dual 14" disks out of a 5360, and I'll be damned if I didn't only remove about 250lbs., tops. BTW, be CAREFUL picking up 5360's with a forklift, they are very unbalanced by the humongous transformer on the power supply end, my dad and I went to unload mine, and it started to try to take a dive off the forklift attachment on our tractor. Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 1 month

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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > Since you are local and will not have to pay shipping, you > > have a huge advantage when it comes to anyone else. > > BUT, you will need to have a van or a small truck. And > > Also, it can all be moved in two trips with a mid-sized station-wagon > (e.g. - a Gran Torino)... well, possibly one if you really squeezed > the stuff in there. Well, right now, it's not for certain I'll get it, since John Allain is bidding against me. Hi, John... are you local to Louisville area? I'll be using a pickup truck, and it's a single 42 inch high cabinet, so I think that'll be sufficient. > If it's at all windy, or even a little breezy, be careful with those > rack side panels, as they can go flying into something rather easily. Would it be feasible to remove the skins and set it on its side (on a quilt)? > > bring some tools so that you can separate the components. > ..snip.. > > Note: ask for any tapes, documentation, etc. as soon as possible, not > another trip, if possible, as such things tend to get lost or tossed > out quickly after the system goes away or gets unplugged. The system is in the hands of a sort-of-collector, not at its original installed site. The photo shows a bookcase of what appear to be manuals, but he may intend to sell them separately. I'll ask, tho, to be sure. > > You will find it much easier if you only need to lift one item at a > > time rather than the whole cabinet. Note that the tape drive alone > > can be about 100 lb. Two people can usually handle that easily. > > Several years ago, I disassembled, moved, and reassembled an entire > 11/73 rack myself, including the TS05 tape drive, expansion chasis, > two 8" SMD drives, etc. Just be careful to lift with the knees and > not the back. Of course, it would be a lot easier with two people, > and much more pleasant a task with the temperatures in the 50s. :-) Hah, it will likely be in the high 80s or low 90s if I get the dang thing. Fortunately, the truck is being driven by a farm boy, so he's used to lifting that bale, toting that barge... > > If it is working or you can fix it yourself, that will be a great find > > IF ou have an opportunity to actually use the drive, and especially > > if you need it. > > Most definitely! :-) I'll at least be transferring the plexiglass tape drive window to the Cipher I have for the Prime. BTW, I asked the seller to check the rear plate of the TS05, thinking it *is* a Cipher F880 and he came back and said it has only a TS05 ID plate. The front bezel is *identical* to the F880 streamer. Do you know yea/nay on this? -dq

26 years, 1 month

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New HP150 software finds.

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Ernest" <ernestls(a)home.com> wrote: > What's happening is that my Pentium system doesn't recognize the format of > these old SS 3.5 disks, even though they are formatted with MSDOS (FAT 12 I > think.) My Pentium will see the 720k disks that I format on the HP but not > the old SS disks. Does anyone know why? No, but Sydex wrote a shareware MS-DOS device driver that used to be available on simtel.net's MS-DOS collection, which supposedly allowed the reading and maybe writing of HP150 stiffies in a PC stiffy drive. Sad to say, I couldn't get it to work on my Toshiba notebook PC (MS-DOS 6.22) for purposes of reading a single-sided HP150 stiffy. You might have better luck. -Frank McConnell

26 years, 1 month

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Arium, UNIX, and other strange things. . .

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:02:44 -0400 (EDT) "Merle K. Peirce" <at258(a)osfn.org> writes: > On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > Yes, I expect it is. It's the only Unix portable I've seen. Very > blue, very heavy. Well you know, there a bunch of odd coincidences that revolve around Arium, American Automation (now American Arium), the Regulus OS, and the SS-50 bus (of all things). It goes like this: American Automation was a maker of ICE's and development stations in the early 1980's. One of their products was called the EZPro-- it was a general development system that could be equipped with a variety of ICE's (I own a processor unit; I never located the 68000 ICE that came with it originally). Anyways, The EZPro was based on the 6802 CPU, and it used the SS=50 bus! It is the only piece of test/development equipment I have ever seen or heard that used this bus. Around 1985, I contacted these guys, and got a full set of prints for my system, and a couple of 8" floppies with the OS, along with the source for the ROMs. They told me that most of their EZ-Pro hardware had been *thrown out* a few *weeks* earlier, that I could have had it, had I asked. Ever seen a grown man cry? They showed me their new product, I can't remember the name, but they mentioned that it still used the ss-50 bus. I remember now that it looked very similar to a product made by . . . Smoke Signal Broadcasting (SSB), which made a 68000 based product called the VAR. This thing ran Regulus, and was supposed to be very good for real-time processing. SSB, if anyone remembers, used to make a very nice line of SS-50 machines (The Chieftain). Fast foreward about ten years, and Arium merges with American Automation to become American Arium. I wonder if Arium based their earlier products on the SSB VAR. Spooky, huh? > > > On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:22:05 -0400 (EDT) "Merle K. Peirce" > > <at258(a)osfn.org> writes: > > > We have an Arium machine running Aegis Regulus. Is this a > version of > > ^^^^^ > > Arium?!!? I wonder if it is the same Arium that made ICE's > > and development stations in the early-to-mid 80's. > > > > JUst curious: That wouldn't be a 680x0 machine, would it? > > > > I remember an OS that ran on 680x0 platforms that was > > marketed at about that time called 'Regulus'. > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > M. K. Peirce > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > 215 Shady Lea Road, > North Kingstown, RI 02852 > > "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

2
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Free: Apollo DOMAIN/OS Software Distribution Tapes

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:22:05 -0400 (EDT) "Merle K. Peirce" <at258(a)osfn.org> writes: > We have an Arium machine running Aegis Regulus. Is this a version of ^^^^^ Arium?!!? I wonder if it is the same Arium that made ICE's and development stations in the early-to-mid 80's. JUst curious: That wouldn't be a 680x0 machine, would it? I remember an OS that ran on 680x0 platforms that was marketed at about that time called 'Regulus'. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years, 1 month

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Should I add a "Micro" PDP11/73 to the Herd?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> If you read the license of most software you will find that it says You > don't own it and that "you" are licensed to use it. Cars are bought > outright IE: they are property. Software for the most part is "rented" > for lack of a better word. What we need to know, is who (what corporate representative) was the first person to capitulate to the robber barons by being willing to sign a software license that granted only the right to use said software. Once one corporation capitulated, the rest were bound to follow. We could make that person number one in the Computing Hall of Shame. Hell hath no flames hot enough for that person... -dq

26 years, 1 month

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