- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> However, be forewarned that ViacomSoft apparently knows nothing about > Appletalk Bridge software. I have an extremely small network > consisting of my PowerComputing clone and my wife's Quadra 650. We > also have three different Appletalk printers. (PLW NT, HP Deskjet and > Color Stylewriter) I have to use the Bridge software to communicate > with the printers. I use ethernet and a x-over cable to connect the > Macs. SurfDoubler would not allow access to the printers. Their tech > support had no experience with it. While I suspect that they share some code, from the description on the web site, SurfDoubler isn't the same as SoftRouter. I may have to experiment a bit here... > After a month of trying to make it work, I tried Sustainable's > IPNetRouter. Plug and play. Well worth the additional $50 if only > for the lack of agravation factor. ViacomSoft's final answer was, " > If you figure it out, let us know." I figured it out. The answer was > to drop the ViacomSoft product and replace it with IPNetRouter. > > Told 'em what the fix was too! If you do not have to have a mixed > network, ViacomSoft's product will probably work just fine. It just > wouldn't work for me. Well, I have one printer that's localtalk-only, so I have something to test with. I do also have a Shiva box that allows sharing a single localtalk peripheral amongst a localtalk workgroup, but I've never messed with it. -dq

25 years, 9 months

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Spiders (was: Stacking computers)(long)

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

If you want to know more about spiders, I actually took several entomology classes at the University of Kansas. I know some weird information about fleas, chiggers, spiders, pore mites, and other small insects. We used to hunt spiders, not to kill them but to observe them, at night, our professor would buy the first pitcher of beer after we were all done. You could buy 3.2 beer at age 18 in Kansas in 1971. The brown recluse spider injects a cytotoxic saliva when it bites. The saliva actually breaks down the cell wall, i.e. cytotoxic, liquefies the cell contents and then the spider is able to "slurp" up the contents. Some people are highly allergic, then can end up with scars the size of 50 cent pieces when the site heals. Bites on faces and exposed body parts are a problem. They like to feed on dust mites under furniture. I heard a story/rumor that one of the football coaches at KU had a large scar on his butt from a brown recluse bite. Reference on spiders http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ohioline/hyg-fact/2000/2060.html Off topic, The chigger injects an anticoagulant when it bites, which has the same effect, and also itches. Otherwise their proboscis, "stinger" would clog up with clotted blood. University of North Carolina reference to residental pests http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Urban/house.htm Reference of pesticides and pest control http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Urban/pests.htm Pore mites are the tiny bugs that live on the sebacous secretions and skin flakes on your skin. Mostly they live in skin pores. Our professor used to take a scraping from the skin on a student and show them what was living on them. He theorized that people with clear skin actually had more pore mites that kept the skin's pores unclogged. I doubt if anybody wants a skin cream with live pore mites. Mite reference http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Urban/mites/mites.htm I actually learned something in college. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 9 months

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PET keyboard

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

Hello, I have a PET 2001-16N with the graphical keyboard, but it is missing the left uppermost keycap. It's been missing so long, I don't even recall what character it is any longer! It's the key located right next to the '!' key though. Would anyone have a spare cap or even a spare keyboard assembly? It is a plastic cased 2001 with the 4.0 ROMs. Thanks Jeff -- Power Computing PowerCurve, 400mhz G3, Mac OS 9.0.4 Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

25 years, 9 months

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Mac TCP/IP networking

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> There are at least two products that will perform TCP/IP > "encapsulation" > into Appletalk using a Mac: > > 1. A current product called IPNetRouter. See: > http://www.sustworks.com/site/ipr_guide/localtalk.html > It will run on all current Macs. > > 2. An old Apple product called "Apple IP Gateway". See: > http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n16705 > This product will not run on PCI Macs or on Macs running > "Open Transport". Another product is Vicom Internet Gateway... it's been split into two products now, one carrying the same name includes the ability to block access to specific web sites and has CyberNot filter capability. A more stripped-down version is called SoftRouter. Both products allow you to multi-home the Mac, and it then routes Localtalk to TCP/IP and vice-versa. Nice product; we use it on a Mac to connect our entire office to the Internet over a measly V.90 link. -dq

25 years, 9 months

2
1
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Spiders (was: Stacking computers)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Anybody having trouble with fungal growth? > > Yeah, but I don't think anyone wants to hear about my > particular fungal growth ;) ROFL!

25 years, 9 months

1
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old MAC's

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Speaking of PB's, I might be inheriting an '040 520c soon. 8.1 does run > >on the 040, yes? Does anyone have personal experience (not "Apple claims > >it does")? > > Like the LC475, my 520c has the 68LC040 processor, not the full 68040 - I > assume your situation is the same. If I'm wrong, we can set about > installing BSD. Linux will also run on this machine, but from what I read, > the FPU emulation is not reliable yet. Some of the LC models (e.g. the Quadra 605) have an expansion slot into which you can put either a NIC or a FPU card. I have a couple of the FPU cards, although I may not still have the docs. I'd be willing to part with them for US$20 each. Regards, -dq

25 years, 9 months

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classiccmp-digest V1 #407

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Hello. I'm new in the list. I write from > Spain; my name is Sergio. I have one question > to somebody that can answer it: Can it be > possible to obtain some sort of info about > "Compatible Time-Sharing System (CTSS)" from > the M.I.T ? I'm interested to do one IBM 7094 > emulator and I should like to made on it the > modification that was made in the machine > that rans the CTSS. I think that there was > some manuals from MIT press ans internals. > I suppose that can be possible to obtain > it paying. I should like to hear something > about this. A guy named Roger Roach who is or was at MIT supposedly has magtapes containing the CTSS documentation. If he does still have them, I doubt he would release them from his possession, and I don't think he personally has the time to try to recover the contents. He might permit a researcher access to the tapes at a facility local to MIT or wherever he now happens to be. I do not know Roger; I got this information >from a third party. > Same thing is applicable to Multics question. > Somebody is doing a Honeywell 635/645 emulator > like I could confirm one week ago; in this way, > a primitive version of Multics may be sufficient, > I think. Most of Multics is written in PL/I; unfortunately, PL/I compilers are hard to come by. > In both cases we think in Java like the platform > to do the work. In my particular case I want to > do some other emulators (Univac I, IBM 701, > IBM 1401 and IBM 650) because I have some info > about them (opcodes, etc). There is only a > question about the Univac I that nobody resolvs: > Can it be possible to obtain a detailed diagram > from the Main Console of the Univac I ? I, too, have had Java recommended to me as a language for implementing emulators. I have concerns about its performance. -dq

25 years, 9 months

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Everything about Apple ///

by sambfam＠optonline.net

Update by Robert Sambolin Sorry for not posting the Washington Apple Pi information. I did not have the telephone, address or webpage address on hand when I posted my response. Here are the details: WASHINGTON APPLE PIE <www.wap.org> 12022 PARKLAWN DRIVE ROCKVILLE,MD 20852 (301)984-0300

25 years, 9 months

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DEC RP06 power

by rws＠enteract.com

I've recently acquired an RP06 as part of a PDP-11/44 system, and I wish to run it (why not?) I remember reading on this list a while back, that it could be operated on single-phase power instead of three-phase. I got a printset along with the drive, and it's pretty unclear about what would use the three-phase- it's almost like the third phase is ignored, the 208v between the first two phases is fed to the transformer, and the primary is sort-of center tapped to feed the 115 volt fans. Is this right? How would I go about feeding it single-phase if that isn't right? While we're on the subject of three-phase, a couple of weeks ago Bill Bradford asked about re-wiring a VAX 6000 for single-phase. I never saw any response. Anything new from anybody? (I really need to get three-phase in my house) Richard Schauer rws(a)enteract.com

25 years, 9 months

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Spiders (was: Stacking computers)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, ajp166 wrote: > > The last problem varies with area but is likely everywhere, Vermin. > > Spiders, bees, roaches, mice to name a few can be very distructive > ^^^^^^^ > > Does anyone have a good solution for spiders other than having to > reshuffle equipment more often than is sometimes possible and vacuum > them away? One or two little spiders here and there don't seem to be > much of a problem, but, there are spiders here in my basement that are > about an inch of so in diameter that seem to like areas where there's > light - e.g. in rafters near lightbulbs (but some still nest in other > places), and they tend to have lots of little spiders (like hundreds > hatching per web (nest sacks are between 1/4" and 1/2 in diameter". > The webbing can get so think that I once heard a ripping sound when I > pulled some circuit boards apart. These spiders can make quite a mess > from the droppings and remains of what was caught in the webs. Man! Those suckers are h-u-g-e! I let spiders run free in my house, I've noticed that they keep the roach population down. But they've never turned into these mutants you're having trouble with. The bug that plagues my old stuff in the basement are these crickets that are about the same size, 1 inch, as your spiders. They're even more intimidating as they jump when they are startled, paradoxically, in the direction of the intrustion- me. Anybody having trouble with fungal growth? Glad I don't live on Mir... -dq

25 years, 9 months

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stuff avail

by oliv555＠arrl.net

Well, continuing my housecleaning so have some freebies and some almost freebies available: - dug up several boxes of unused 8" hard sector floppies Nashua FD132D WP-r ss/dd; as-is, nothing to verify them on yours for the shipping cost The following *heavy* freebies local only (Houston area): - Vaxstation 2000, diskless, boots to v2.1 prompt - MicroVax 3100/10, 340mb drv, VMS v5.5-2 *has noisy fan* Other "stuff", prefer local pickup: - Mac LC475, working, $10 - DEC R215F StorageArray w/1-rf31 $10 - Vaxstation 3100/m38, 24mb, v5.5-2, 2-RZ23, rx23 $25 - Vaxstation 3100/m76, 16mb, no OS, rx23 $30 - DEC SZ-12 Storage Expansion, rz57 $10 or free with above VS's *no cable available with this* - HiNote Ultra II CTS5100, bare nodrive nomem deadbatt, mainbrd and screen working.... $20; more info on request WANTS LIST: - M8739 klesi-ua rc25 control - M7740 lesi qa rc25 control - RC25 cartridges thanks............. nick o

25 years, 9 months

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Classic Macs

by foxnhare＠jps.net

> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:01:37 -0700 > From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> > Subject: Re: old MAC's > > Some of these aren't truly "classic" yet (<10 years), > but it's looking like the Color Classic is really a > CLASSIC. If you want to really get carried away with > older Macs, see about the Color Classic at > http://home.hkstar.com/~patrickn/colorclassic/ > > Dave We have a couple Color Classics at work a max of 10 megs RAM and 16mghz speed makes it mighty slow (even with the MicroMac Accelerators)... If you are looking for something "compact" and to "play" with the Macs I would look out for: SE SuperDrive (able to use the HD disks, also can support dual drives and hard drive) SE/30 (first 68030 compact mac, some people consider thse good to have around for net stuff.) Classic II (more limited than the SE-30 but faster than other compact macs) IIci (the cx and si are slower, also note the IIci is the last Mac capable of running System 6) IIfx (big, fast, but uses weird RAMs) LC-III Quadra 605/LC475 (no MMU but 25mghz speed, good kids internet box) 631-CD (last of the 68040s, but a good one - my first Mac - at home) Macs in the 1000s are PowerMacs. Note some caveats on those: * 61xx (uses a non-standard video connector!) * 7100 (uses a non-standard video connector & NEEDS a standard video card doe to electronic design) Heck just check out http://www.lowendmac.com/ Low end Mac is a great site for tips and tidbits on the older macs. Though some of their "Road Apples" are computers I like. -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Classic Commodore pages at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011

25 years, 9 months

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Spiders (was: Stacking computers)

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/24/00 9:46:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, John.Allain(a)donnelley.infousa.com writes: > > >Does anyone have a good solution for spiders other > >than having to reshuffle equipment more often than > >is sometimes possible and vacuum > > I would suggest just sealing it in a plastic garbage bag - that's what I do, and not only is it an inexpensive solution, but it seems to work well also. -Linc Fessenden members.aol.com/lfessen106

25 years, 9 months

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TI99/4 in its box available

by donm＠cts.com

A chap here in San Diego just called me to tell that he has a TI-99/4A available to someone who would use it. It is complete with cords and manuals and in original box. Shipping would be at recipient's cost and would be from 921nn. Email me off-list if interested. - don

25 years, 9 months

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Recovering Sysadmin

by bobcaar＠cyberdude.com

>Hans Franke wrote: > >> C'me on, there's always anpther solution...... > >Unfortunately, there might not be. We're going to be moving shortly, >and it's next to impossible to take the PDP-11 with us. :( I've been >able to keep it up until now, but with moving preparations on the go, >it's coming down to decision time. > >Thing is, how does one get rid of a PDP-11 in a couple of weeks? I >can't imagine there's a huge market for them in Toronto (and I am NOT >shipping this thing). > So, You're looking to get rid of your PDP, I see? I'm sure I could give it a good home :) I've been looking for one locally (Toronto area). If you can't take it with you when you move, give me a shout. Also, does anyone know if Nortel/Northern Telecom mass produced Unibus telephone/audio boards at anytime? (A friend *believes* he found some, I'm going to pick up the boards in a couple of weeks and we'll see.) T.H.x. Devon >- -- > > >Tim Harrison >Network Engineer >harrison(a)timharrison.com >http://www.networklevel.com/

25 years, 9 months

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auctions?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Does anyone on the list have a recommendation for a good internet auction service? Not E-bay! I can't get E-bay's computer to accept any of my auctions! I also haven't been able to post any feedback since August. I've E-mailed them at least ten times and they keep telling me that there's nothing wrong with their system, they've fixed the problem, etc etc etc but the problems persist. Joe

25 years, 9 months

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old MAC's

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Bill Layer <b.layer(a)vikingelectronics.com> wrote: > Good day, > > >--- Bill Layer <b.layer(a)vikingelectronics.com> wrote: > > > Here is my off-the-cuff list of Old Macs To Look Out For: > > > SE/30 > > > >Why? > > Because "Richard Erlacher" <richard(a)idcomm.com> had asked :) OK... smiley aside... why the SE/30? I happen to have one that I replaced with the Quadra 605. As far as B&W Macs go, it seems quite nice. Unfortunately for me, I have a couple of SE Ethernet cards, but none for the inside of the SE/30. I have to use my only SCSI<->Ethernet adapter with it. > Yes, the 68040 is a drop-in replacement for the 68LC040. I just wanted to make sure that the MacOS didn't freak if it found an FPU in a box that didn't formerly have one. More of an Extensions question than a hardware question. > There is information out there about how to overclock that CPU as well. Cool. If I run across a 33Mhz '040, I'll give it a whirl. > AFAIK, the 68LC040 in your Quadra 605 actually runs at 50MHz internally, but > on a 25MHz external bus. Right. That's an '040 thing. Motorola never emphasized it until much later, once Intel began hyping the DX2 line of 486 processors. > Sorry to hear about the abused PowerBook.. :| At least it was free (to me). I'm still looking for a 120-200Mb SCSI disk for it for less than a buck a meg. My Mac experience goes back to the 128K model (a buddy brought one to work in 1984 when disks were $5 each), but is spotty. I used to support my mother's business when she had a room full of Mac 512Ke machines with Dove Snap boards (memory and SCSI), Mac Pluses and Mac SEs. Her most powerful Mac was an SE with 4Mb of RAM and the original 18Mb disk. She used them until she closed her doors in 1997. I skipped several generations of hardware until the IIci and the Quadra 950, and have missed most of the PowerPC stuff. Fun boxes that still have their uses. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

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Q.: SMS model OMTI 3100 bridge

by cem14＠cornell.edu

I have this old Mac SCSI drive+enclosure, a Dataframe 20 model. It came with an old Mac 512K that has a 3rd party SCSI card. I would like to save the data from the drive for archival/historical purposes, but I am having trouble for several reasons. In a newer apple laptop, the hd is not recognized at all, neither by silverlining nor by APS formatter. And I can't attach the drive to other machines because I don't know how to set its SCSI ID to something other than 0. The drive houses an older Microscience drive and a bridge labeled "SMS MODEL OMTI 3100"; this has, among other things, a Z8 and a 2764. The label on this last IC says "SUPERMAC 3103". Everything seems to have been manufactured in 1986. Does anybody know how to set the SCSI id for this bridge? Will it look like a standard SCSI device to another apple, or is this a non-standard beast? -- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14(a)cornell.edu 428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853

25 years, 9 months

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old MAC's

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Bill Layer <b.layer(a)vikingelectronics.com> wrote: > Here is my off-the-cuff list of Old Macs To Look Out For: > SE/30 Why? > Any Quadra, with the possible exception of the Quadra 605 (aka LC475) with > it's lack of FPU I have a 605. It cost me $5 at Dayton. I use it to dump my QuickTake 150 camera and convert the images to TIFF. Can I just drop a full 25Mhz '040 in it and rise above its limitations? > Any PowerBook Someone gave me a PB160. It appears to have been dropped/thrown. The plastic mounting posts on the bottom shell were broken and the guide rod that the floppy head slides up and down was dislodged from its mountings. Of course the HDA was roached. It powers up fine, now, on external power (dead battery) and even boots from an external disk. Any good sources for cheap PB160 disks? It only needs to be large enough to hold OS 7.5.x and have a couple dozen Mb left over for the QT150 software. Thanks, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

4
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Spiders (was: Stacking computers)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> >Does anyone have a good solution for spiders other than having to >reshuffle equipment more often than is sometimes possible and vacuum Insecticide will slow them down, but they are eating other bugs. >The webbing can get so think that I once heard a ripping sound when I >pulled some circuit boards apart. These spiders can make quite a mess >from the droppings and remains of what was caught in the webs. Jeepers, why did I suggest packaging stuff to protect it from things like that? >I never noticed these until the past several years, and am guessing >that I may have brought them in with some computer equipment, so, be >careful when collecting. Collecting in the summer seems to work out >best, when equipment can be _thoroughly_ disassembled and cleaned >outdoors and then brought inside. They found a good place to hid and did. Likely they were there but now there are more places to hide and maybe other bugs to eat so they are being fruitful, multiplying and also making a mess. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Q.: SMS model OMTI 3100 bridge

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez <cem14(a)cornell.edu> wrote: > I have this old Mac SCSI drive+enclosure, a Dataframe 20 model. My Mother had some Dataframe 20s with the OMTI 3100 MFM<->SCSI card inside. > Does anybody know how to set the SCSI id for this bridge? Not without looking at a picture of the card. > Will it look like a standard SCSI device to another apple, or > is this a non-standard beast? AFAIK, it is just a standard, pre-SCSI-2 interface. You will *not* be able to issue IDENT commands against it to divine the drive geometry. You have to _know_ the heads/tracks/sectors of the MFM drive (there are lists of those out there - I was just looking up the XT2190 today and only found 47 hits with Altavista - it's a good keyword to use to find MFM drive lists) The problem is probably the third-party controller. It may or may not count on a certain set of contents of the first cylinder or two. With the right driver disk, you could reformat that drive on a more modern Mac, but you want data recovery. If you can't change the SCSI id of the Hardframe, why not change the id of the boot disk in your target Mac? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

2
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classiccmp-digest V1 #407

by SPEDRAJA＠mail.ono.es

Hello. I'm new in the list. I write from Spain; my name is Sergio. I have one question to somebody that can answer it: Can it be possible to obtain some sort of info about "Compatible Time-Sharing System (CTSS)" from the M.I.T ? I'm interested to do one IBM 7094 emulator and I should like to made on it the modification that was made in the machine that rans the CTSS. I think that there was some manuals from MIT press ans internals. I suppose that can be possible to obtain it paying. I should like to hear something about this. Same thing is applicable to Multics question. Somebody is doing a Honeywell 635/645 emulator like I could confirm one week ago; in this way, a primitive version of Multics may be sufficient, I think. In both cases we think in Java like the platform to do the work. In my particular case I want to do some other emulators (Univac I, IBM 701, IBM 1401 and IBM 650) because I have some info about them (opcodes, etc). There is only a question about the Univac I that nobody resolvs: Can it be possible to obtain a detailed diagram >from the Main Console of the Univac I ? Well, that all. Thanks. ---------- Sergio Pedraja Administracion de Sistemas Division de Tecnologia Caja Cantabria Spain ----------

25 years, 9 months

1
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Cold storage

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

Hi all I have to refer to the collective wisdom of the list. Here's the problem: I live in the frozen land of Minnesota, I have a 12'x16' shed full of empty cardboard boxes, I have a house full (and I mean full) of computers. Would it be safe for the computers to spend the winters in the cardboard boxes in the shed? Should I insulate the shed first? Should I move to the shed and store the computers in the bedroom? Thanks Francois

25 years, 9 months

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old MAC's

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On 24 Oct 2000 16:27:46 -0000 Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> writes: > This in no way reflects badly on Motorola, as they documented the > behavior correctly. It does show, however, that they were starting > to lose the CISC performance competition. Probably because Intel was > simply able to outspend Motorola on high-end microprocessor R&D. Not to mention the fact that Mot had bet (and spent) heavily on the 88000 RISC architecture and lost. Unfortunately, the marketplace wasn't looking for a better design; rather it simply wanted faster & cheaper. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 9 months

1
0
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Spiders (was: Stacking computers)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Does anyone have a good solution for spiders other > >than having to reshuffle equipment more often than > >is sometimes possible and vacuum > > 1./ Eliminate edible materials. > (Old food, dead plants, human skin dust) > 2./ The foraging insects go away. > (Ants, Moths, Flies) > 3./ The Hunting insects go away. > (Centipedes, Spiders) > > Now, I've heard that some beetles > will eat insulation. > A possible halloween scare, but > it probably only happens in warm > running machines. But i've > never seen this for myself. > I have seen a number or rats nests > in discarded copy machines... > Again for the warmth I think. While the bug stuff doesn't faze me, I should point out that you should not mess with rodent droppings without wearing a respirator. Hantavirus, spread though rodent droppings, is no longer confined to the southwest. -dq

25 years, 9 months

1
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Stacking computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: McFadden, Mike <mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu> >I wonder if pile stability is the most important, or that the heaviest stuff >be on the bottom, or is regular shape items on the bottom best. Seeing the >floor is not a problem. Yes, if it falls over things may break. Apply common sense here. Also of the stack is too heavy for one of the lower units fix it! >Can anyone guess what the average per foot floor load is for 3' high >computer piles? I'm afraid that my garage attic may collapse on the cars if >I stack it higher than 3'. I'm also worried about the temperature extremes >in the garage attic. I'd bet 50-100 pounds SQft for really nasty stuff and for a stack of common PCs down around 25. The problem is how much can the floor hold? If it flexes when you stand on it that would be around say 170lb/sqft (assuming nominal adult person) and might represent a upper limit. Temperature is not an issue. Humidity and condensation are big issues. Some plastics dont age well when hot or get very brittle when cold so handle with care and avoid the sun (UV). Also sitting for years is bad for caps so lack of use can be problematic. The last problem varies with area but is likely everywhere, Vermin. Spiders, bees, roaches, mice to name a few can be very distructive >from chewing, feces, urine and introduced debries(nesting material for one) or a hazard to the user Bee stings or other bites. Seal stored equipment to keep them out and keep them dry. Allison

25 years, 9 months

4
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NatSemi 32000

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 23, 20:19, Hans Franke wrote: > I stand to be corrected Pete, but at least the Chip Directory > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ganswijk/chipdir/n/160.htm > agrees to my memory. I may check my databooks tonight. :-) I'm not saying you're wrong, just remembering what may have been Acorn marketing. I'd be interested to see what the data books say if you find them. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 9 months

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Looking for TMB11 Controller!

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Group: I'm looking for a controller for my TS03 tape drive, freshly racked in a nice 11/34A recently rescued from North Vancouver. The modules in a TMB11 are: M105 M795 M796 M7821 M7911 M7912 and they fit into a custom 4-slot backplane. I realize that this is a longshot, but anybody that has one that's available, please contact me! Thanks as well to those that helped with my recent 11/34 booting and console questions! Kevin

25 years, 9 months

3
3
0 0

Novas are forever...

by bkr＠WildHareComputers.com

Since Data General is now digested by EMC I am trying even harder to acquire, restore and preserve the DG 16-bit Nova and Eclipse hardware, software and documentation. Please let me know if anybody has DG 16-bit software, doc and hardware that needs a home... Bruce Ray bkr(a)SimuLogics.com ======================================================== To: History Preservation Buffs In a little over 30+ years Data General has gone from exciting startup computer company, to number two minicomputer company, to almost a footnote in our memories. The recent buyout by EMC has effectively closed the door on any corporate interest in saving this important part of computer history. A recent increase in 16-bit Nova and Eclipse activity(!) and has made us decide to split off a separate web site - www.SimuLogics.com - to try to deal with these situation. The intent is to salvage, restore, preserve and archive all of the 16-bit Nova, Eclipse and compatible hardware, software and documentation possible. As part of this effort we have donated most of our own DG systems to the various museums, educational institutes and collectors. We are also transferring all manuals and software to CDROM to preserve this heritage. Various clients and vendors have also supported this effort by providing hardware, software and documentation that we are transferring to CDROM for archival and historical purposes. The www.SimuLogics.com web site's nostalgia section is planned to be the starting point for an expanded area for this highlight in computer history. Now I'm scrounging trying to find any and all Nova- and Eclipse-type stuff to resurrect, restore and run, and am seeking any Nova/Eclipse/RDOS/AOS hardware/software/documentation that could be preserved - any items that might be even loaned for testing and/or archival purposes would be appreciated. Also, any good tidbits or other such stuff would be great to include in the triva section for posterity. And third-party DG look alikes are also being sought. Point 4, Bytronix, Keronix and other vendors were important sub-markets within the DG area along with third-party operating systems such as MICOS, BITS, VMOS, MUMPS and BLIS/COBOL. And site comments/ridicule/suggestions are always welcome! Bruce Ray bkr(a)SimuLogics.com www.SimuLogics.com Parent company: Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. P O Box 3581 Boulder, Colorado 80307-3581 USA vox: (303) 466-7717 fax: (303) 465-5780 bkr(a)WildHareComputers.com www.WildHareComputers.com

25 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Stacking computers

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I have a serious questions to ask. How high can you pile computers and not damage the bottom units. I have computers stacked along my garage walls. For example: MicroVAX II on bottom, three 3B2's next, AT&T Unix PC next, box of keyboards above, empty boxes and boxes of cables on top. I wonder if pile stability is the most important, or that the heaviest stuff be on the bottom, or is regular shape items on the bottom best. Seeing the floor is not a problem. I'm trying to buy some shelving from a friend in St. Louis who gets it cheap. Although cheap shelving is an oxymoron. I envision some stainless steel roll around shelving and some fixed units. Of course if the New Madrid Fault reactivates I'll just have to restack. Can anyone guess what the average per foot floor load is for 3' high computer piles? I'm afraid that my garage attic may collapse on the cars if I stack it higher than 3'. I'm also worried about the temperature extremes in the garage attic. I'm lucky my wife and I have several small power and sailboats and guess what boats live outdoors with no complaints about rain, snow, heat and cold. When my kids go off to college I'm converting 1 or more bedrooms into workshops. Thanks Mike mmcfaddden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Enough already! (was: Re: MS Laugh-In)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Kevin Stewart <stewart_kevin(a)hotmail.com> >Ok, can we stop this? 1) It's irrelevant 2) OS-bashing does NOTHING >positive. 3) It's Microsoft, not M$ or microsh*t 4) It's Windows, not >winblows, windoze, etc. Actually it's MICROS~1 ;) >Windows has its useful places in the world, as do Linux, VMS, *BSD, MacOS No it's taken the world some place it shouldn't go. While the idea and over all plan is good it's execution is there the comments arise. I manage 40 clients running w95osr2.1, minimum of one crash a week. Uptime is measured by TBI, that's time between Installs due to it's propensity for eating itself. For w95osr2 that's about 10 months. W98se has the record for not even running on a engineering machine that ran Autocad for years without grief. A raft (nearly 50mb) of patches later from MS and a list of vendors later it's nearly stable. >and others. What works for you works for you. I'm currently using an NT 4 >box (my main workstation) that sits alongside 20+ Mac, *BSD and Linux boxen I do too, much better once they got to SP4!!! However add IIS or worse office97 and it's not nearly as solid. Dont forget SP1 and SP2 for Office97. I use it but while IE/OE are installed I try not to use them as they have demonstated weakness and are a huge security hole. Without MS apps it's acceptable. >and goes through a Linux firewall to my cablemodem. Linux has crashed on me >< 5 times, mostly when I'm screwing around with code and make a stupid >mistake. NT has crashed < 5 times as well. This box (A celeron 433/96/8gig) No news there. The difference is in linux you can see where and why, w9x its all too difficult to diagnose. Then again any system where you can write/modify the kernal code is susceptable to crashes. Linux doesn't suffer >from putting the Video driver in the most unprotected place where errant apps can munge it and kill you (winNT4). The upside is a ODBC for NT that really works is only $4000 after spending a bomb for all the other stuff to make a "real server" using it. Or running an app and needing support and having the vendor expire before the warrentee. Linux and FreeBSD have a few warts but open code is at least fixable. Ever deal with NT domains? Their fun. Try and get a server to participate in a domain. Ever try to create a PDC when one pukes and there is no BDC ( a legacy issue) but now you have to have one? It's simple, reinstall EVERYthing as you can only get that choice at install time. Dont forget to install IIS, do it later and it much not participate in the SAM, split domain secuity that results is loads of fun when you needed a server yesterday. IIS can be fun, server can do file services but wants a password for a simple web page because it split the domain internally somehow and the web pages done have "permissions". Ever try and track the service packs and hotfixes for NT4? I have the complete set of some 13 CDroms for 3.51, all patches and fixes. I gave up trying for NT4, If I have to bridge the Intranet to the Internet you can bet a proxy server/firwall and content filter will be there. Then there is the little problem of IntenetExplorer, the virus back door that does. Any server apps you write have to be written for it as those aimed at all other browsers are different. Add to that OutlookExpress another virus barn door that can't figure out how to produce nicely wrapped text at 80 characters or any other line length that may be reasonable. Why use it... have you ever tried to move from servers running NT3.51 to linux with a W95 client base? A real test of sanity and recreating a small raft of code. Worse yet is doing it the NTway and finding all the 3.51 code is useless under NT4. then you have the problem of W95 network logins if there is no "domain". No secuity on the 'net either. Now do you understand the frustration? Tis better it's vented as humor as the alternate is serious fault finding. Allison

25 years, 9 months

17
35
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New Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well the last few weeks have been up and down not much 10plus stuff but lots of 1 to 8 year old stuff. At one thrift I found a PSION series 3a manual but not the machine ( I go by each day looking for it)and at another I found a MPF-1 User's manual and a Monitor program source listing manual for the same board. I'm still looking for the MPF-1 board to show up there. Picked up a HP9114B FDD unit at an auction. At another auction I got HP45711B Portable Plus. That's it for now Keep on Computing. John Keys

25 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Stacking computers

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated Mon, 23 Oct 2000 2:34:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "McFadden, Mike" <mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu> writes: << I have a serious questions to ask. How high can you pile computers and not damage the bottom units. I have computers stacked along my garage walls. For example: MicroVAX II on bottom, three 3B2's next, AT&T Unix PC next, box of keyboards >> Although this isn't exactly on topic here, I would like to promise you and every other Classic Comp'r on the list that if you would see fit to sell/give me that AT&T Unix PC, I would USE it and never stack or stuff it anywhere :-) Seriously though, I have been hunting for one of these everywhere and can't seem to find one... Linc Fessenden members.aol.com/lfessen106

25 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

old MAC's

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated Mon, 23 Oct 2000 2:58:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Richard Erlacher" <richard(a)idcomm.com> writes: ><< I've begun to see numbers of old Mac's in the >various thrift stores. Which models are particularly >interesting? I've never had much of a taste for the >things, but at $6-$10 each it might be worth snagging >the things just for the disk drives, or some such. >Today I ran into a classic, a ii-lc or some such and >iii-si or something like that. These latter are both >those recent-looking low-profile thingies. Do they >have anything of interest in them? Look for SE/30 or LC III or even a centris. they are powerful enough to do things with. Mac classic is just a redesigned SE w/ FDHD.

25 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Goodwill Computerworks Museum

by univac2＠earthlink.net

A while back, everybody was talking about the Goodwill Computerworks Museum. Can someone tell me what city that was in? Thanks, Owen

25 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Tandy Model 4P available

by vcf＠siconic.com

I know someone who has a nice Tandy 4P with a printer and manuals available. It's all boxed up and waiting to go. There are three boxes, the weights being 68, 33 and 7 pounds. The from ZIP code is 98039. Please reply directly to me if you are interested. Precedence will go to local pickups (Seattle, WA area, specifically Medina). If you are not local, please be prepared to make a small offer on the lot, on top of the shipping costs (use UPS website to calculate). In this case, please do reply to me directly :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

NPR Morning Edition segment on VCF IV

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Jim wrote: >Just spoke with the reporter from NPR, and the segment with the interviews >that were done at VCF IV will be running on tomorrow (Sunday) mornings >edition of Morning Edition. Just heard it this morning (it happened about an hour and 28 minutes into the program). It seemed pretty well done, and a reasonably wide variety of "classics" were mentioned by some of the regulars to this list. My only complaint is that I didn't hear any references to this mailing list or any relevant "classic computing" web sites. If anyone has any loud complaints, I work about two blocks over (and a few hundred feet down) from NPR's Washington DC offices and I may be able to volunteer to go there and protest over my lunch hour :-). Tim.

25 years, 9 months

5
5
0 0

NatSemi 32000

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 23, 15:07, Hans Franke wrote: > I may be coorected, but AFAIR are the 16032 and 32032 the very > same CPUs - NS just changed at one point the family name 16xxx > to 32xxx to reflect the 32 Bit hype. Bussize was always noted > by the last two digits, while the middle digit served as family. > 16008/32008 8-Bit external Data > 16016/32016 16-Bit external Data > 16032/32032 32-Bit external Data Are you sure about that, Hans? When Acorn first talked about their NatSemi second processor, they described it as a 16032; by the time it was released, it was a 32016 and they claimed this was the same device previously called a 16032. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Looking for MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 roms, version 2.3

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > I am in the process of refurbing some uVAX2000s and finally ran down the > patches for the SCSI boot ROMs and VMS device drivers. Unfortunately for > me, my newest uVAX has version 2.2 ROMs and the patches are for 2.3. Can > anyone help me locate newer ROM images? I have plenty of blanks and a > programmer, so that's the easy part. Instead of ROM images, how about the ROM's themselves. I have one uVAX2000 that I tore down to remove the disk to send to a fellow list member. Looking at the ROM's on it: DEC87 LM8737 on all of them the unique numbers on each ROM are: 033E7 034E7 035E7 036E7 I never test fired this one, so no info other than above. I also have five VAXstation 2000's. They have all been test fired and at the time they spewed: KN410-B V2.3 You want I should loan you a set of ROM's and throw them in the box with the DS200/MC manual when you get around to sending me a Priority Mail stamp. How's that for a subtle reminder? I might also remind you that you recently dug a VS2000 out of the barn and gave it to a friend. Are you refurbishing his also, or might you have just given away the very thing you seek? This may be another indication of what Sellam so aptly named "Mental DECay". ;-) Mike

25 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Tubes and Hoses

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

Tony didst scribe: >One pun that may not have crossed the Pond is that it was called the >'Tube' not only because it was a thing for shifting data from one machine >to the other (like a tube would carry a fluid), but also because the Tube >is a slang name for the London Underground (railway) (what you'd call the >Subway) and is thus an alternative to travelling by bus... Heh - reminds me as to why the bus interconnect in the Alpha is called a 'hose'.....in the labs they had everything connected together with thick green cables which someone said looked like garden hoses..... -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) <http://www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk> (me) <http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk> (The online computer museum) 0/0

25 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

RF71 disk drives and 2 BA123 microVax II's in Kansas City

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Hi all I have 6 RF71 disk drives, a TK25 and 2 BA123 microVax II's in Kansas City that I need to get rid of . Any offers? Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Looking for MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 roms, version 2.3

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

I am in the process of refurbing some uVAX2000s and finally ran down the patches for the SCSI boot ROMs and VMS device drivers. Unfortunately for me, my newest uVAX has version 2.2 ROMs and the patches are for 2.3. Can anyone help me locate newer ROM images? I have plenty of blanks and a programmer, so that's the easy part. TIA, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Zilog S8000 available in the UK

by pgj＠ghrs.co.uk

I had this machine offered to me, but it is too far for me to collect it if anyone else in the UK wants it. Please contact Mike directly. BTW what, precisely, is it - does anyone on the list know of them. In his original message to me he said that it was big and that it had been used at a local college to teach Unix to students. -- Regards Pete > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike W [mailto:mike@corn2.freeserve.co.uk] > Sent: 03 October 2000 10:57 > To: Peter Joules > Subject: Re: You want old computer stuff? > > > no probs abt the delay in replying Pete, feel free to pass on the > details to whoever you wish. > > I now have it here, its a Zilog S8000/32 Model 130, Ser no. > 01871336, sold by Allied Business Systems of Portslade, Sussex. > > It appears to be functional but as yet I hav'nt connected a terminal > to it so I can't be certain of this. > > If you or any of your fellow devotees would like to have it > then I'd be > only too happy to store it until it can be collected. > Catch you later.. Mike W, Redruth, Cornwall > >

25 years, 9 months

6
6
0 0

NatSemi 32000 (Was: RE: Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!)

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

There was a project board that was featured in the Micro Cornucopia around 1984, or so. It was an ISA co-processor board, that ran UNIX; it used the PC as an IO server. It was pretty slick. I really wanted one, but sure couldn't afford it. One of these actually showed up on e-bay a couple of years back; naturally I was outbid. There was another project, the PC32 which was a 32000 based SBC. Also pretty slick; they run NetBSD. These are pretty rare as well. All of the 32000's had an 'orthogonal' instruction set; it was also the same IS for 8,16,and 32 bit parts. I have the users manual around here someplace . . . Jeff On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:21:31 -0400 Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> writes: > > I vote to drop-kick this weeks discussion/useless rant > > on Windows and other OS's and other pokes to list members. > > Get back to you classic computers, VAXen, boxen, > > whatever-you-have-en, which this list is meant for! > > > > Anyone with me on this? > > I've heard little discussion (since I joined earlier this year) > about the National Semiconductor 32000 processor line. IIRC, > some (but not all) of the chips in this family were true > 3-address machines. > > Anyone familiar with them? Do any significant assembly > language programming on one? > > -dq ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 9 months

4
3
0 0

Computer That Ate Hitler's Brain

by vcf＠siconic.com

RE: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,39198,00.html Michelle, The silly thing about the Colossus II vs. ENIAC debate on which one was first is that they were both beat a few years earlier by Konrad Zuse, a German inventor working alone during WWII. Please check here for references: http://irb.cs.tu-berlin.de/~zuse/Konrad_Zuse/ http://hjs.geol.uib.no/zuse/zusez1z3.htm http://www.epemag.com/zuse/ All three are excellent resources on Zuse's amazing work. I hope you will print a follow-up to your October 3rd article that truly sets the records straight, because this is something that needs to be known for such an important topic. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 9 months

6
6
0 0

Filtering posts

by KenzieM＠sympatico.ca

I'm still not sure if my posts are getting through, but I'm getting a load in my inbox. How do others here filter the messages from the list without a [Classiccmp] tag?

25 years, 10 months

4
4
0 0

HP 9000 & HP 1000 available

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, (sighted elsewhere) There's a couple of HP 9000s (PA-RISC) and one HP 1000/900 available in Minnesota at: http://www.w9fz.com/hp9000/index.html Don't email *me*! Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler

25 years, 10 months

2
1
0 0

Cold storage

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

I'm already up to the ceiling, check out the picture on my home page: http://people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon/index.html On top of that I have the laundry room wall (the one without the appliances) loaded up from floor to ceiling. At this point I have exhausted all storage solutions for in house storage and I can't even get to the far end of my office without planning the trip at least a week in advance :) Right now the only choice is OUT. That means the shed or a rental space. I would much prefer the shed. Thanks Francois -----Original Message----- From: Claude <claudew(a)sprint.ca> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Cold storage >Sue & Francois wrote: >> >> Hi all >> I have to refer to the collective wisdom of the list. >> Here's the problem: >> I live in the frozen land of Minnesota, I have a 12'x16' shed full of empty >> cardboard boxes, I have a house full (and I mean full) of computers. > >I would not submit my computer collection to the low low temperatures >you get in Minnesota (like here in Quebec)... > >One answer for more space : SHELVES, SHELVES, SHELVES...I taught I was >running outta space until I installed approx a total of 48 feet (3 times >16 feet of 16" wide shelves seperated by 14") attached to drywall with >metal brackets. About $8-$10 for the 8 foot long white wood shelves and >$1 for each bracket. A good investement... > >Second : do regular clean ups...Yes you might throw away something that >can be used one day...but still...space is space...I rather have less >stuff all clean and neat then a ton of stuff in a mess...but thats me... > >For "home" PC collecting it is great. Most of my collection (Atari, >Apple, Macs, Trs80s...) is there and can be admired and connected and >booted in less then 2-3 minutes...But I don't think the drywall and >shelves could hold up a VAX... > >Claude > >> >> Would it be safe for the computers to spend the winters in the cardboard >> boxes in the shed? >> Should I insulate the shed first? > >I would not let my collection live in sub 0 temperatures. > >> Should I move to the shed and store the computers in the bedroom? >> >> Thanks >> >> Francois

25 years, 10 months

8
9
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Beginner into Micros, etc.

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

On 19 Oct 2000, Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote: > Where can I put all this stuff I found. Almost as difficult question as "What is the meaning of life". The answer just came to me: "To be the winner of the contest: He who dies with the most 'puters wins." My latest haul included over 100 machines of the same brand. I had to rent a space at a local U-Store-It place. I must be crazy. More on this haul later. Mike

25 years, 10 months

8
9
0 0

Insanity (Was: Re: Beginner into Micros, etc.)

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > I have thousands of square feet of interesting (to me > at least) stuff, mostly DEC minicomputers. Up to now my collecting has been pretty much DEC stuff and a few odd Intel boxes. So I guess you could say we suffer from the same form of insanity. Idea, contest time! We need a name for the form of insanity whereby you continue to haul home DEC. > I find this much more satisfying than having hundreds of units of > the same microcomputer, but I'm not criticizing. It was more of a rescue than looking for satisfaction. I kept them >from the dumpster. I will keep a couple, and am sure homes can be found for the others. Of course there is the testing of all of these which will take a fair amount of time. > In fact, I was basically making that point that I'm completely insane. Point taken, and understood. Mike

25 years, 10 months

4
3
0 0

classiccmp mailing list service notice

by jwest＠mppw.com

Greetings and salutations; We're in the process of upgrading our mailservers, including the one that hosts the classiccmp mailing list. We're building a new machine with a newer version of the OS (FreeBSD 4.1), and a newer version of majordomo (1.94.5), and then moving the services off the old one and onto the new one. Once done, the hostname, ip address, and all identity of the old machine will be taken over by the new machine (ie. no differences [we hope]). We will do our best to ensure there are no service interruptions, but the following issues are possible: 1) There may be some delays in list traffic during the upgrade 2) Once moved to the new system there may be some "features" that need to be worked out 3) There may be delays in updating the mailing list archives at www.classiccmp.org during the transition Please email me with any problems you may notice to both jlwest(a)tseinc.com and west(a)tseinc.com Thanks! Jay West

25 years, 10 months

29
61
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Microvax II boards

by ncherry＠home.net

OK, I have my Microvax II KA-630 (thanks Carlos) and I now need to completely understand it. I have discovered the follow boards are in it: KA-630 (CPU w/FPU and 1 Meg RAM) Nemonix NXII-16 (half filled, Meg of RAM) M7608 RAM (4Meg I think) M7516 (DELQA Ethernet adapter) M7555 (2x MFM Disk controller) SI Part # 981-4617 (ESDI board? SCD-RQD11/EC) RCI - Recognition Concepts INC. NO 100220 - Has a TRW 1007J1C3 8451/AP (Analog?) M5976-SA KZQSA (SCSI) Ok this machine has 1 MFM drive (~50M) and another drive (which I haven't kooed up yet). I hope to build the IDE interface in the next few months to save money on the drives. I can get a 760M ESDI drive for ~$300(US). Now the SCSI is borrowed from a BA213 (hence the SA) I intend on knocking out the rivets and making it usable in both machines. I may also upgrade the Nemonix to 15M to get a full 16M. I already have 3 2.5G SCSI (and a 9G SCSI-3 drive, yea I know ...). Does anyone recognize the SI board or the RCI board? What is the minimum size drive for loading VMS 7.2? Any other thoughts? My fingers are itching to learn VMS? One other question, what command do I need to remount the drives on a Microvax II? My machines go off line and I don't know what commands to type to get them back. Thanks. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 10 months

5
5
0 0

volunteers requested (was Re: Beginner into Micros, etc.)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Jerome asks: > > I guess I pay too much attention to details, but which single computer is it > > you are going to pick up. > > A PDP-10 (KL10) system. Oh holy bat guano, Eric... nice rescue! When was the last time it was operational? Somewhere, I may still have the Macro-10 source code for RWATCH, a superuser hack that floated around the University of Louisville for years. -dq

25 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!

by epgroot＠ucdavis.edu

I vote to drop-kick this weeks discussion/useless rant on Windows and other OS's and other pokes to list members. Get back to you classic computers, VAXen, boxen, whatever-you-have-en, which this list is meant for! Anyone with me on this? Edwin

25 years, 10 months

5
4
0 0

Beginner into Micros, etc.

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > Mzthompson(a)aol.com wrote: > > > The answer just came to me: "To be the winner of the contest: He who > > dies with the most 'puters wins." > > > > My latest haul included over 100 machines of the same brand. I had to > > rent a space at a local U-Store-It place. I must be crazy. More on > > this haul later. > > You've got some catching up to do. My 4-bedroom condo, 2-car garage, > and several *thousand* square feet of rental space are filled up with > old computers, documentation, etc. Darn, don't you just hate when we get into a size enumeration contest. Remember what they say "Size doesn't matter." Actually Eric, I had to rent the storage space, the three car garage which also contains two other rooms 8x20 & 8x10, and a good size loft were already full. And although there is still room in the 30x40 barn with its loft, I only use it for the stuff that is probably destined for the recyclers/scrappers. I would like to have had it closer so I could test this stuff easier, but had no choice. And then Gary Hildebrand <ghldbrd(a)ccp.com> wrote: > You very well might be crazy. Not many others have that many computers on > hand, except maybe Best Buy, or Office Depot. > Remember, your addiction could be cars, or ships too, so count your > blessings --- all 100 of them. Thank you, Gary. You need not look farther than Iowa to find words of wisdom and the good side of the situation. If only my SO could see the silver lining. ;-) Mike

25 years, 10 months

2
1
0 0

MMJ Info

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Info on the MMJ connector found on various DEC terminals & computers. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- DEC uses an MMJ (Modified Modular Jack) connector on its equipment for serial data communications. DEC calls the mating plug on the cable an MMP (Modified Modular Plug), only the term is not used as often and most of the time is just simply referred to as MMJ. It is like a modular telephone connector, only the key on the connector is offset, not in the center like a standard telco connector. Looking at the back of a VT320 for example the MMJ looks something like this. -------------------- | * * * * * * | -------------- -- |____| 1 2 3 4 5 6 are the pinout numbers --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- The signals are: # I/0 Desc 1 > DTR Data Terminal Ready 2 > TXD Transmit Data 3 - TXD- (ie Gnd) 4 - RXD- (ie Gnd) 5 < RXD Receive Data 6 < DSR Data Set Ready > = terminal or computer output signal < = terminal or computer input signal --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- DEC's part number for the cable is BC16E-xx, with the xx being the length. The cable is made so that the connector on one end is mounted 'right side up' and the other end 'upside down'. In other words, the key tabs on the connector are on opposite sides of the flat cable. // ---- ---- | |---------------------------------------| | ---- ---- // That is effect causes the signal lines to cross-connect or as I like to say 'turn over' from one end to the other. MMJ port on DEC MMJ port on DEC VT320 terminal computer or DECserver DTR 1 --->-------------->----------------->--- 6 DSR TXD 2 --->-------------->----------------->--- 5 RXD 3 ---------------------------------------- 4 4 ---------------------------------------- 3 RXD 5 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 2 TXD DSR 6 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 1 DTR --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- I had a DEC MMP cable that someone cut one end off so I wired it to a female 9-pin D connector to use with a PC 9-pin serial port. Wired as follows: MMJ DE9 1 6 2 2 3 5 4 5 5 3 6 4 This was to use a PC as the console on a DECsystem 5500 and/or one of the ports on a DECstation 3100. I actually did not connect DE9-6 to MMJ-1. It worked fine without it. I later made a breakout box with two 9 pin D connectors and an MMJ socket along with the means to disconnect and rewire as needed. I found that it works fine without DE9-4 being wired to MMJ-6. In other words, using only the two data lines and ground. Your mileage may vary, depending on how things are setup. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- DEC makes several adapters to adapt the MMJ to 9/25-pin D connectors. The H8571-A and H8575-A are MMJ to DB25 (female) and are wired as follows: MMJ DB25 1 20 2 2 3 7 4 7 5 3 6 6 & 8 Also pins 4 & 5 of the DB25 are tied together I have used the above using a standard DEC BC16E cable to connect to a PC 25-pin serial port to use the PC as a terminal. --------------- The H8571-C and H8571-F are MMJ to DB25 (male) and are wired as follows: MMJ DB25 1 6 2 3 3 7 4 7 5 2 6 20 --------------- The H8571-B an MMJ to DE9 (female) and is supposedly wired as follows: MMJ DE9 1 5 2 2 3 7 4 7 5 3 6 6 & maybe 8 (depending on which DEC manual you read) I have never seen one, so have not actually checked how it is wired. It should be noted that this is not wired correctly for PC 9-pin serial ports, besides the gender of the 9-pin connector is wrong. DEC says that this is used for connecting to 9-pin printer ports. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- And here is a summary on how the various signal lines match up to each other on the different connectors. Term Term MMJ MMJ port on DEC DB25 DE9 computer or Decserver 20 4 1 --->-------------->----------------->--- 6 2 3 2 --->-------------->----------------->--- 5 7 5 3 ---------------------------------------- 4 7 5 4 ---------------------------------------- 3 3 2 5 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 2 6 6 6 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- ---------------

25 years, 10 months

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Cold storage

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

Yeah I do not inted to operate any of them in the shed (no juice there). I do not have the storage parameters for most of them so I'm looking for a generality. I will pull out all batteries and desolder the ones I can desolder. Where can I find dessicant? Francois -----Original Message----- From: Jim Arnott <jrasite(a)eoni.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Cold storage >Thoughts... > >Should be okay if: > >you pull the cmos/pram batteries >you seal in plastic with dessicant > >Of course, I could be wrong. You might also check the typical >'environmental conditions' for the systems though I believe that >that's operational parameters... > >Jim Arnott

25 years, 10 months

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Cold storage

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> I think so but I'd put each one in a plastic bad adn seal it first to >prevent condensation. Add silica gell to keep it dry in the bag. Prevent vermin from attacking it or nesting in it. Cold will generally not hurt anything. Heat can be worse. >>Should I insulate the shed first? Wouldn't hurt but making sure the wildlife don't go in and out all the time is important. Allison

25 years, 10 months

2
1
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Vax Station 3100

by ncherry＠home.net

I just got my VS3100 and it has no drive (I expected that). It has a part number of PM20A-AB. It has ~16M of RAM, a Video ram sim and nothing else. What do I have? What RAM can this beast take? How large a drive can it take? The only other marking are BA42A and CPU KN01. Thanks PS This beast will be the drives for my Microvax ii until I get an IDE card in it. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 10 months

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Idiotic people who do not know the value of classic equipment

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

And the sad part is that the idiots are everywhere, including a local instituition of higher learning. I have said it before, and probably even on this forum, that being a member of such an instituition in no way indicates any common sense whatsoever. The latest just proves that it applies to just plain smarts as well. One of my friends who works there (until recently) returned from vacation a few weeks back to find that much documentation had been pitched, including the documentation for the currently in use machines and operating systems. Last year, while he was on vacation, they managed to fill a dumpster with DEC hardware, VAXstations, DECstations, uVAX 2000's to name some. He had already made arrangements for he and I to haul it off and we were just waiting for some warmer weather. He managed to dive and save a few, but the students who did the actual tossing had 'popped' the monitors. It was just to dangerous to dive very deep. There is a good side to this story though. Last month he heard the rumor of the decision to pitch some more and moved on it quickly. We started hauling almost immediately. In addition to the 100 BrandX machines mentioned in another post yesterday, they also allowed us to take a few DEC & SUN machines. He has since then left for greener pastures, but we believe we now have them 'trained' to call us as they retire more DEC in the near future. Only time will tell. Mike

25 years, 10 months

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NatSemi 32000 (Was: RE: Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 21, 3:24, Derek Peschel wrote: > Second, I believe Acorn made a 32016 "second processor" box for their BBC > Micro. Those boxes connect to the main machine (2MHz 6502) via a 2MHz bus > (the Tube) with a semi-custom chip (with a couple of FIFOs and some > registers) at each end. I believe the second processor has a stub OS in ROM > with entry points matching the ones in the main machine. The main OS knows > how to process calls from the Tube and how to download software to the Tube. > I thin the OS on the 32016 second processor was TRIPOS. I'm still sorting > out the conflicting docs -- one of them mentions UNIX but that might have > been scrapped. I don't think it was either. I think it was an Acorn proprietary OS called PANOS, which looked vaguely Unix-like. IIRC, it used BCPL rather than C. Somewhere I have all the advertising blurb (but not accessible ATM, if it's where I think it is), and I used to have a complete set of PANOS disks and docs, but I may have given that to someone who actually has a 32016. I never did, though for a while I did have an Acorn Scientific, which was a Beeb and 32016 co-pro integated in a bulky box with colour monitor and hard drive. PANOS, by the way, was names after a certain rather good Greek restaurant in Cambridge, which Acorn staff were later banned from -- not because of the OS, I hasten to add, but allegedly because one night Chris Curry took a swing at Clive Sinclair in there. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 10 months

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classiccmp web page traffic report

by west＠tseinc.com

You know, it never dawned on me to tell people about this... i just thought about it and took a look and was suprised at the statistics :) For the traffic report of www.classiccmp.org, go to http://webtrends.tseinc.com/www.classiccmp.org Regards! Jay West PS - I'm still waiting for those two anonymous RK05 drives to show up, but HP 7900A's will do just fine too :)

25 years, 10 months

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Semi-OT: "Mining" Web Sites

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, I've got a question that I'm really not sure how to go about looking for the answer to. I know that there used to be commercial products for the Mac that did this several years ago, but I think their long gone. Basically the platform the software runs on doesn't matter as long as it isn't Windows. I'm looking for a software package that can take a snapshot of a website for archival purposes and go 'x' levels deep. I want it to be able to snag stuff such as PDF documents. The problem being that every time I turn around Compaq has managed to loose even more of the old DEC hardware related documentation, and if it's still there it takes ages to find it. I've saved numerous PDF files, but I'm now wanting to do a better job of mirroring the data and preserving it. For an example of the problem good luck figuring out which old PCI video cards are supported by OpenVMS! My thought is to archive specific area's and toss them on CD-R for latter access via a web browser. So something that can update the links to a local disk structure is also needed. I'm sure I'm not the only one experiencing simular problems, or having a desire to do something like this. I'm also fairly sure this kind of a tool is of interest to this group. Zane

25 years, 10 months

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NatSemi 32000 (Was: RE: Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I vote to drop-kick this weeks discussion/useless rant > on Windows and other OS's and other pokes to list members. > Get back to you classic computers, VAXen, boxen, > whatever-you-have-en, which this list is meant for! > > Anyone with me on this? I've heard little discussion (since I joined earlier this year) about the National Semiconductor 32000 processor line. IIRC, some (but not all) of the chips in this family were true 3-address machines. Anyone familiar with them? Do any significant assembly language programming on one? -dq

25 years, 10 months

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nice paper on Multics emacs

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > http://www.best.com/~thvv/mepap.html > That link could go away if Tom ever chose to re-host the site. He says this link is the permanent one: http://www.multicians.org/mepap.html > As Eric pointed out, it's nice to keep the h/w, but it's even > better if you can keep the s/w! (And, no, I don't know where > to get a copy of Multics emacs...) Two problems: It's written in PL/I and MacLisp. While the source to both of those exist, Bernie has said parts of MacLisp utilize some of the special EIS instructions in the 6180 machine that may or may not have ever been completely documented, so it's really tied to the hardware. But here's a teaser in the form of the comment block from the Multics Emacs Incremental Redisplay module, which was written in Lisp: ;;; ****************************************************** ;;; * * ;;; * * ;;; * Copyright (c) 1978 by Massachusetts Institute of * ;;; * Technology and Honeywell Information Systems, Inc. * ;;; * * ;;; * * ;;; ****************************************************** ;;; ;;; ;;; Multics EMACS Redisplay ;;; Greenberg, March 1978 ;;; 3/6/78 inceptus Luna meo adjutorio. ;;; 4/19/78 duas fenestras feci. ;;; 5/30/78 ^V creavi. ;;; 6/18/78 signum linearum elongatarum, ^0^L, &c ;;; 7/5/78 Cuncta lineae comparandae sunt, quicumque sint. ;;; 7/27/78 Ostendae sunt lineae quae non in textu sunt. ;;; 8/23/78 Dua fenestrae tacebant, atque mundae factae erant. ;;; 9/6/78 Indices linearum originalum per fenestris comparo. ;;; 3/1/79 Quando laboro in medio linearum elongatarum, omnes moveatur. ;;; 4/4/79 Minibuffer in multos divisus est. ;;; 4/12/79 Mille fenestrae florent. ;;; 8/24/79 ^V et ESC-V argumentes dedi. ;;; Septembri 1979 hoc redisplicator Paltere sustenetur. ;;; 2/12/80 tty-no-cleolp impletur, ;;; mode-line-hook & local-display-end-string ;;; 10/23/80 Praefix minibufferis non delendum est. ;;; 1980 Decembri e manibus meis dimissi te ut sole per mundum ambules. ;;; ;;; Welcome to the rosy-fingered dawn of the New Era: ;;; Presenting, at popular demand; ;;; A Comment In English! ;;; ;;; 30 June 1981 Extending local displays, Richard Mark Soley ;;; 1 July 1981 suppress-remarks and minibuffer-clear-all, Richard Soley ;;; 5 November 1981 truncate overlength modelines, Richard Soley ;;; 19 August 1982 fixed inverse-real-world-xcoord for \c lines, ;;; Barry Margolin ;;; 20 August 1982 added CAH's real underlining code, Barry Margolin ;;; 12 October 1982 modified underlining to use constant 400, Barmar ;;; -dq

25 years, 10 months

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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > So is anyone archiving the software for this Mulitcs system? > > > > An archive of Multics exists at MIT. If my recent personal > > experiences with 9 track magtape can be considered representative > > and not anecdotal, then I think the tapes will still be readable > > even ten years from now. > > > What kind of 9-Track tape drives can read these tapes though? IIRC, the > drives we had on the DPS-8's were pretty much bog-standard 9-Tracks (I > remember writting a tape to be read on a Sun box). Well, these tapes were written by Multics tape_archive command (the granddaddy of tar). Back in '93, someone at MIT used what I presume was tar on some Un*x to restore the archive to the MIT Andrew File System. However, tar seems not to have handled the Multics symbolic links occuring on the tape before the objects to which they pointed, so not everything got restored. In particular, the portion of the archive that should have included the running binaries was not restored. This would mean recompiling the system and generating the boot image, but there's a worse problem... The most serious problem with the archive, though, was that MIT never had the source to the later Multics PL/I compiler, though they did at one time have the source to the earlier one. But of course the existing Multics source relies on the later compiler. So, assuming the restored archive contains all the pieces of the OS at the time the snapshot was taken, you'd still need to get or reimplement a PL/I compiler for the Level 68 architecture (a plain DPS-8 is a Level 61, IIRC, while the DPS-8/M is a level 68 machine, the original implementation of which was for the Honeywell 6180 machine). Ultimately, for a proper preservation, permission would have to be secured from Bull to run the OS, have the source, etc. What exists at MIT is valuable for some research on how a Multics was put together, but as a basis for a museum system would leave many many man-years of reprogramming left to be done. As a programmer, for me, that would be the fun part. But I intend on contacting TPTB at MIT to see whether I could donate the labor to attempt a second, more proper restoration of the archive, by using GNU TAR and making whatever changes need to be made to it so that it does the job right. Current plans are to contact them this time next year. -dq

25 years, 10 months

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Cold storage

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/21/00 10:42:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fauradon(a)mn.mediaone.net writes: > Should I move to the shed and store the computers in the bedroom? hmm, the answer seems obvious here... DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/museum.htm

25 years, 10 months

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Semi-OT: "Mining" Web Sites

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:21:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: << OK, I've got a question that I'm really not sure how to go about looking for the answer to. I know that there used to be commercial products for the Mac that did this several years ago, but I think their long gone. Basically the platform the software runs on doesn't matter as long as it isn't Windows. I'm looking for a software package that can take a snapshot of a website for archival purposes and go 'x' levels deep. I want it to be able to snag stuff such as PDF documents. Zane >> You are looking for "wget" for Linux and it's (of course) free. -Linc Fessenden

25 years, 10 months

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95LX Connectivity Software

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Well, I got the HP 95LX Connectivity software for DOS and it doesn't work! (The disk says "Packed file is corrupt" when I run the install program. DOS 6.0 on a 486 laptop.) Does anyone have an install disk they can zip up and send me? I do have the disks, but they just don't work. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- All things are possible, except skiing through a revolving door. -----------

25 years, 10 months

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MMJ Info

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > [Snip] > > The H8571-A and H8575-A are MMJ to DB25 (female) and are wired as follows: > > MMJ DB25 > > 1 20 > > 2 2 > > 3 7 > > 4 7 > > 5 3 > > 6 6 & 8 > > Also pins 4 & 5 of the DB25 are tied together > > I have used the above using a standard DEC BC16E cable to connect to > > a PC 25-pin serial port to use the PC as a terminal. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have one of the H8575-A, but have not yet done a continuity check to verify > the connections that you state. But I assume that you are correct. One of these > days I will attempt to verify that all of the above works with a VT320. Thank you. These adapters are listed in a few DEC manuals, so that is the primary source of the info. In most cases I have verified the info as well. > Any suggestions on how to verify the above? Can a simple tester do this? A simple VOM. The hard part is staying connected to the pins. To make that a little easier I use some adapters I picked up years ago. These are banana jacks to D connector pins & sockets. You can roll your own, but they are made by Pomona Electronics, p/n's 3560 & 3561. > > The H8571-C and H8571-F are MMJ to DB25 (male) and are wired as follows: > > MMJ DB25 > > 1 6 > > 2 3 > > 3 7 > > 4 7 > > 5 2 > > 6 20 > > I have an H8571-F as well. When I pried apart the DB25 from the housing, > that was what I found. I'm not one to say I told you so, but..... ;-) > > And here is a summary on how the various signal lines match up to > > each other on the different connectors. > > Term Term MMJ MMJ port on DEC > > DB25 DE9 computer or Decserver > > 20 4 1 --->-------------->----------------->--- 6 > > 2 3 2 --->-------------->----------------->--- 5 > > 7 5 3 ---------------------------------------- 4 > > 7 5 4 ---------------------------------------- 3 > > 3 2 5 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 2 > > 6 6 6 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 1 > > Seems very reasonable. And it does work since I also connected up two > VT320 terminals using two cables and one female DB25 and one male > DB25 (i.e. one H8575-A and one H8571-F) after I had used just a > single BC16E cable. > > However, I have two more VT320 terminals which I want to connect > and I don't have at least one H8571-F. I assume you meant "I don't have more than one H8571-F" If you need, I got a couple spares. > So here is the question. Since we have both found the cost of the H8575-A > and the H8571-F DB25 MMJ to DB25 connectors to be a bit high in the > price (i.e. more than we want to pay), would it be reasonable to cut the > cable in half and put an ordinary RJ11 phone connector on each cut > end to produce TWO cables? I also happen to have a couple of RJ11 > to DB25 connectors (male) to which I could then connect the newly mated > RJ11 normal style. That way, I would not need to have the DEC MMJ > connectors. However, there is one minor problem - you note that both > pins 3 and 4 are connected to DB25 pin 7! Must that be done? The problem > is that the RJ11 end has all 6 pins connected to 6 individual male components > and it will be a hassle to attempt to connect both of pins 3 and 4 of the RJ11 > to DB25 pin 7 - to say the least. May one be omitted and if so which one? I'll use the standard engineering answer. It depends. That is to say it depends on what you are trying to do. There are times where you only need certain lines, and there are times when you hook up all lines and it still won't work. I have had good luck in using just the transmit and receive data leads (MMJ 2 & 5 to DB25 pins 2 & 3, and of course ground) to use for example a PC as a terminal hooked to a DEC machine. If your going to hook a DEC machine up to a modem then you are going to need the control lines as well. On the other end, I attempted to use a Compaq portable one time as a terminal and it did not work. I figured the serial port was bad. Later when I tried again, I found that the port was fine, but still would not interface with a DEC machine. I decided the reason had to be due to the voltage levels. A standard serial (if it exists) as defined by RS232C should have a voltage swing from +15 (0) volts to -15 volts (1). Granted you will find it implemented at +/- 12v, +/- 9v, etc. These all work as the spec defines the threshold as 5v, between +5 and -5 is undefined and considered the transition zone. Now look at DEC, which uses DEC-423 which I assume is a derivative of RS423. The voltage swing for 423 is +6 to -6 volts with the threshold being 200 mv. I checked the DEC machine and sure enough it was running at 6v. I concluded the the Compaq was possibly designed with a higher threshold volatge, and was not going to recognize the 6v coming from the DEC machine. > I think that this should be possible since I also happened to find another > MMJ DB25 female connector which has the "funny" DEC offset, but > without the DEC name. In this case, I was also to pry the DB25 off the > housing and found that pin 3 in the MMJ side was left hanging and not > connected to anything. That's OK. Pin 3 & 4 are both ground on the MMJ. I'll bet MMJ-4 is connected to DB25-7, so there is the ground connection. > In addition, on the DB25 side, pin 6 was not > connected to pin 8. That should be OK, 6 - DSR Data Set Ready, 8 - Data Carrier Detect. Here again we are getting into modem control lines and may not be needed depending on what you are trying to connect. > I have not had a chance to test with both the DEC > (H8575-A) and the non-DEC DB25 female connectors with a VT320 > at each end, so I am not sure if the non-DEC version can be used. But > since the non-DEC (i.e. without the DEC label) has the "funny" DEC > offset, I feel I can assume that it will probably work - in point of fact, > I might have used that one when I did the VT320 to VT320 test. > > If my suggestion is possible, then it should be very easy to convert any > DEC BC16E cable into two cables with one end being used at the > VT320 and the other (after being fitted with a standard RJ11 connector) > to be used with a normal RJ11 to DB25 connector. Tongue in cheek. Oh my, he's gonna cut a BC16E cable into two pieces. What's next, testing chain saws on Mac's, or removing spare parts from heavy metal VAXen's with a propane torch. ;) > Just though I would ask for some advice and suggestion. Also, if anyone > has already done this, and it worked, then I would know it is going to be > OK. If there was something I should be aware of and it has already be > figured out, that would be helpful to know. Note that the VT320 terminals > will be used without a modem, so if all DEC parts were used, the BC16E > cable with an H8571-F would first be used to convert to a standard > DB25 male interface. Then a null modem cable would be used to connect > the DB25 male to the standard DB25 male on a DEC computer. The > key point is to attempt to become independent of the DEC "funny" offset > within the first cable connected to the VT320. The annoying part is that > I have a number of RJ11 to DB25 convertors without the "funny" DEC > offset plus a small amount of 6 and 8 wire cable that I can't use since > I first have to overcome the "funny" DEC offset. Jerome, it sounds like a plan. But I have to ask, why the mindset about the "funny" DEC offset? Is my perspective askew? By that I mean am I living near the land of plenty? I have gleened one building after a computer outfit moved out and hauled cables out in multiple 30 gallon garbage bags. Not all were MMJ cables, but got enough to do my thing. OTOH I understand, I have concocted my share of workarounds over the years. Mike

25 years, 10 months

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nice paper on Multics emacs

by mac＠Wireless.Com

http://www.best.com/~thvv/mepap.html As Eric pointed out, it's nice to keep the h/w, but it's even better if you can keep the s/w! (And, no, I don't know where to get a copy of Multics emacs...) -Mike C

25 years, 10 months

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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Here's an interesting datapoint about the cost of running a preserved/rescued Multics: > "NO UCE" <nouce(a)multics.ruserved.com> wrote in message > news:8s1ltb$sco$1@multics.ruserved.com... > > So how much would it cost to 'mothball' the hardware and store it? > > > > I'd ask how much it would cost to run a minimal system, 1 CPU, RAM, > > disk, etc, but I'm afraid of what the answer might be. > > > > The 1 CPU DPS-8/70M with 4 MW, 1 IMU, 1 18x FNP, 2 FIPS tapes, 3 FIPS D and > 1 FIPS E disk that we ran at CGI/Perigon/ACTC consumed around 1.1 MWhr of > electricity a day running mostly the idle program. Based on current utility > rates in Calgary, that translates to about $2,000 CDN per month. This > included the AC load added to the room. The configuration cited is not the > minimal. This is why emulators are needed for the really old stuff, even if it does still run. regards, -dq

25 years, 10 months

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NatSemi 32000

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

I know a guy who worked on designing the Tektronics machine that used the NS32K family.. I've always wanted to ask him about the machine, design process, etc.. I also have the preliminary info on TI's 32000 products, since they second-sourced it.. I have the NS 32000 databook also.. Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

25 years, 10 months

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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > This is why emulators are needed for the really old stuff, even if > > it does still run. > > Yes, but for the emulator to be useful, someone has to *save* > the software to run on it, and the documentation. > > Even though this seems obvious, it's *amazing* how often it > doesn't happen. > > So is anyone archiving the software for this Mulitcs system? An archive of Multics exists at MIT. If my recent personal experiences with 9 track magtape can be considered representative and not anecdotal, then I think the tapes will still be readable even ten years from now. regards, -doug q

25 years, 10 months

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Last (or next to last) Multics System to be Decommissioned

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> And someone is going to acquire this hardware for posterity I assume?? Doubtful... this was a military machine, and although it didn't handle classified data, they didn't grant accounts to outsiders, which even the NSA did with the DOCKMASTER system until it was decomissioned in 1998. But maybe if someone with deep enough pockets and good Canadian connections tries, who knows what might be possible... -dq

25 years, 10 months

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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Does anyone even know of any good DPS-8 information pages > anywhere on the net? There's a little bit on it at http://www.multicians.org but that's mostly covering the DPS-8/M. Actually, this site, managed by Tom Van Vleck (an original Multician), is a great example of how to organize a site to preserve info about a vintage platform. It's mostly simply text web pages, with links to some that have pictures. But the pages load quickly, and I think you'll be impressed by the volume of information. -doug q

25 years, 10 months

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OS for AT&T 6300

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Well, an update on my AT&T 6300. First of all, thank you VERY much to everyone who responded with information on this little machine. It's quite fun. The machine (now named "Jon") has a new low-level formatted drive (the debug command was g=c800:5, fyi) and is humming along merrily on MSDOS 6.22. Unfortunately, my backup of the hard drive before format resulted in a bad backup, so I'm working to restore that but doubt I will be able to. On that note, what sort of OS do you recommend I run on it? Right now, I'm running DOS 6.22 and the program Conex which allows me to use it as a terminal for my Linux box via a serial cable. Is there a UNIX-ish type OS I could run? If so, does anyone have a copy to sell me? I thought about looking for an 8-bit ethernet card so I can get it online, but not sure if it is worth it...well, it's always worth it to get it online, but... :) Thanks, again, for all your help. Tarsi 210

25 years, 10 months

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Last (or next to last) Multics System to be Decommissioned

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On October 20, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > And someone is going to acquire this hardware for posterity I assume?? > > Doubtful... this was a military machine, and although it didn't handle > classified data, they didn't grant accounts to outsiders, which even > the NSA did with the DOCKMASTER system until it was decomissioned in > 1998. > > But maybe if someone with deep enough pockets and good Canadian > connections tries, who knows what might be possible... It seems a huge shame to let a machine like this get scrapped. Surely *someone* can save it? -Dave McGuire

25 years, 10 months

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MS Laugh-In

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Jerome Fine replies: > > I thought I might as well continue this line of thought - I > DON'T HAVE A > PRINTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Can I mail in the monitor screen? ROFL!

25 years, 10 months

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Alright you Linux-heads...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I've got a couple of 486 boxen (25 mHz, 8-megs of Ram, 1.2 gig > hard drive) sitting around the house. I'd like to make one of them > into a Linux-based firewall for my cable modem. (I also have a copy > of Turbo Linux available for this project) > > Currently I use both a PC and a Mac, and switch between them via > a KVM switch. Both are equipped with Ethernet cards to connect into > the cable modem. I've tried using an Ethernet cable switch to > select either the PC or the Mac, but it didn't quite work the way I > expected it to. As in you have to boot fresh after switching? > At the very minimum, I would like to be able to > * have both the PC and Mac be able to access the internet at the same time > * do the usual firewall stuff (e.g. keep the bad guy out. I currently > use ZoneAlarm on the pc, and it does a decent job) What we use here is Vicom Internet Gateway (now SoftRouter) on a Mac to connect our 40 Windows systems to the Internet. However, since you started this thread with wanting to do it with Linux, you need the IP masquerading stuff for Linux; I never got that far with Linux, so someone else will hopefully chime in here. > I'd also like to go further, and have the Mac and PC read each other's > hard drives (still, while keeping outside users out) Ouch... you didn't mention what runs on the PC... assuming Windows, I don't know of any freeware AppleShare clients for the PC. You can use PC MacLAN, but it's just under $200. Maybe NFS? Regards, -doug q

25 years, 10 months

2
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TU56 on PDP8/A (M8315)

by jos.mar＠bluewin.ch

A question to better informed people than me : Will a TD8/E board work correctly on a PDP8/A with a kk8/A (M8315) CPU ? The pdp8/a minprocessor handbook doesn't give any limitations on this, but the pdp8/A operator's handbook states that the TD8/E only works with the 8/E CPU. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this (i.e. has tried this ) Thanks, Jos Dreesen

25 years, 10 months

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Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

I'm with ya there. For the last few weeks, I've been deleting virtually all the messages from this group. I'm sure I've missed some good stuff but, I'm sick and tired of wading through all the MS and Ebay BS to get the messages of on-topic interest. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Edwin P. Groot [mailto:epgroot@ucdavis.edu] > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 1:40 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion! > > > I vote to drop-kick this weeks discussion/useless rant > on Windows and > other OS's and other pokes to list members. > Get back to you classic computers, VAXen, boxen, > whatever-you-have-en, > which this list is meant for! > > Anyone with me on this? > Edwin >

25 years, 10 months

2
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Last (or next to last) Multics System to be Decommissioned

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Forwarded from alt.os.multics: From: "R. Barry Walker" <rbwalker(a)dgs.drenet.dnd.ca> Subject: Impending Shutdown - DND-H Multics System Date: 09 Oct 2000 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <8rtsc8$b9c$1(a)news.drenet.dnd.ca> Organization: DREnet News Server NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Oct 2000 01:45:44 GMT Newsgroups: alt.os.multics After some 18 years of service, the DND-H Multics system will shut down on or about 1100 Atlantic Standard Time 31 Oct. 2000. All of the unique applications we wrote for it have been moved over to a series of Unix, Linux and even NT servers. It survived the Year 2000 switchover, and now it's time to move on. Sic transit historia multicis... Barry Walker

25 years, 10 months

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forklift rental in San Jose, CA?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

When you are renting a truck look for a Rail Gate rather than a lift gate. They are bigger and will carry a heavier load. The lift goes up and down on a more horizontal plane. Produce trucks use these because the lift heavy pallets with a power lift jack and they need to carry the weight. Check with the Business truck rental places like Ryder. Look for an independent Truck rental that has heavy trucks. No one will rent one way. If it is a long haul check with a computer moving company or freight forwarder to ship the gear. If you buy space by the square yard or partial truck load rather than by weight it is cheaper. You will need a forklift or loading dock to load these trailers. If you are picking something up in an industrial park or area there are usually lots of Forklifts in the area. Talking to a neighboring business will usually get you a lift truck and an operator for a reasonable price. Be ready for them to move, they don't like waiting. Good luck. What are you picking up? Paxton

25 years, 10 months

1
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Idiotic people who do not know the value of classic equipment

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I'd say it'd be worth it. -Dave McGuire On October 20, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > The worst thing about this is that I cant even dumpster dive as they do > a lot of different government contracts. The whole area is pretty much > off limits. If I do dumpster dive, I wouldnt be suprised if a bunch of > FBI agents take me away for questioning... > > > > I'm amazed at what perfectly good stuff management sees fit to toss. When > > my company closed the office I worked out of at my last job, my former > > boss had the minions throw out all kinds of useful and valuable stuff in > > my absence. I found out about it and ended up spending the evening inside > > a grimy dumpster retrieving several thousand dollars of useful equipment. > > > > A lot of it has since served me very well :) > > > > Sorry about your story, Ram. That bites. > > > >

25 years, 10 months

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Looking for: Extended Mass Storage ROM for HP 87

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, The recent discussions of the HP 8x machines reminded me: I'm looking for an Extended Mass Storage ROM for an HP 87 (and for an HP 85, for that matter). The part number is: HP 00087-15013 Extended Mass Storage ROM for HP-86/87 HP 00085-15013 Extended Mass Storage ROM for HP-83/85 I could probably find some 8x stuff to trade for one. thanks, Stan Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler

25 years, 10 months

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Idiotic people who do not know the value of classic equipment

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Hi, A friend of mine works for a robotics engineering firm who were heavy users of transputers. Well, the moved away from transputers a while back and are using PCs to do all their vision calculations, etc. I asked him to hold on to all of the unwanted transputer equipment (T801 trams with 4Megs of memory, B008s, PowerPC Trams, etc, etc) and he agreed to it. Well, when he was on vacation, the company decided to clean up their old equipment and throw away all of their so-called junk. They threw away graphics board that were brand-new still in the box, tons of UPSs still new, i860 processors, C004s, trams, tram boards, etc, etc. All really good and quite expensive stuff. He promised me he will look for other transputer stuff that may be lying around after the cleanup, but this really really BITES! Ram

25 years, 10 months

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Recovering Sysadmin

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> There's no such thing as a recovering sysadmin. > It's not like alcoholism... > It's a fatal disorder... > > One more late night I'm coming home and my wife's gonna kill me... Closest comparison I can make is that the dog spends a _long_ time sniffing me each night to see who I am... -dq

25 years, 10 months

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forklift rental in San Jose, CA?

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Moving large cabinets and racks can be a pain. One of my friends had RP04's moved disguised in boxes as a washer and dryer. I think we all need to rephrase the problem of moving a computer from lift trucks, hydraulic lift gates, and cranes to many bodies and a universal solvent, BEER. I once saw several doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers move a large power boat that was upside down in a yard back into the lake for free beer. Of course I moved an entire 20 X 24 roofed boat dock by taking it into small pieces, carrying it down the hill and assembling it. I bet if you placed a case of beer on top of the computer you could find somebody to move the whole thing. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 10 months

1
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MS Laugh-In

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>this rant just came to me: > > "Windows Me" > Rant #n+1 Win98 was supposed to be the end of the line with W2000 being the replacer... then it was Win98se now win98me (yes it's w98!). I take it the market doesn't yet trust W2000 and SP3 will be a while yet. Allison

25 years, 10 months

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Enough already! (was: Re: MS Laugh-In)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Ernest wrote: > > > > > I humbly apologize for so deeply, deeply hurting you, Sellam, with my > > > > Thanks. Now apologize for annoying me. > > > > > Life goes on, Sellam, and someday you'll look back at this and think, > > > "Gosh, maybe I over reacted just a little bit," and that's OK. We all > > > grow up at our own pace. > > > > Mmmmm, probably not. > > > > Sellam, why do I have the strongest feeling that you're either a sysadmin > or a recovering sysadmin? *grin* Hey! Some of us resemble that remark... ;-) -dq

25 years, 10 months

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Varian 620/L-100 Maintenance Manual for sale

by jdarren＠ala.net

original vendor (1973) issue in near-unused condition. $40 plus preferred shipping. Chapters ---------- 1. Introduction 1-1. specifications 1-2. technical manuals 2. Installation 2-1. system layout and planning 2-2. physical description 2-3. system interconnection 2-4. system interrupt priority 3. Operation 3-1. control panel operation 3-2. manual operations 3-3. preliminary operating procedures 4. CPU 4-1. functional description 4-2. theory of operation 4-3. maintenance 5.Memory 5-1. functional description 5-2. theory of operation 5-3. maintenance 6. DMA Interrupts 6-1. functional description 6-2. interface data 6-3. theory of operation 6-4. maintenance 7. Power Supply 7-1. theory of operation 7-2. maintenance 8. Mnemonics 9. Waveforms 10. Multiply/Divide and Extended Addressing 10-1. introduction 10-2. operation 10-3. theory of operation 10-4. maintenance plus 8 appendices

25 years, 10 months

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Honeywell and other books for sale

by jdarren＠ala.net

all original vendor manuals in good shape. $12 each, plus shipping. 1. Honeywell Series 16 Software - Program Interrupt Structure, 06/1971 2. Honeywell System 700 Software - Verification Service Library, 03/1972 3. Honeywell Series 16 Software - O16-XREF, SSUP, And MAC Source Language Processors 4. Honeywell Wirelist - 516 Memory, 1974 5. Honeywell Wirelist - Series 16 IOBCU, 1974 6. Honeywell Series 16 Hardware Documentation - DDP-516 Memory Expansion, Models 516-05/06, Instruction Manual, 1973 7. Honeywell Wirelist - 516-20 Direct Multplex Control, 1974 8. Honeywell Wirelist - X5B Mainframe, 1974 9. Honeywell Series 200 214-1/214-2 Card Reader/Punch Theory of Operation Manual, 1968 10. Teletype Model 35 ASR Technical Manual, 1971

25 years, 10 months

1
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Who remembers CDC Plato?...run it again on a cyber at home... could it be done?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> The OS that ran on the system was called KRONOS. It was a multi-user > multi-executive OS that did both interactive and batch processing. There > were a number of RJE stations around the campus that had punch card > readers and printers that users could submit their F77 (Fortran 77) > and PASCAL jobs to remotely. How pleasant to find someone else who worked at a Kronos site instead of the more usual SCOPE sites. We had Kronos at IU on a CDC 6600/Cyber 174 Multi-Mainframe system (using some code >from Cambridge University and some Z-80 based disk controllers designed by a guy named Steel at Purdue). > > What are my chances of fiding one? > > Next to nil, I would guess. They were loaded with precious metals (gold!) > and lots of good scrap metal too. The scrappers loved 'em. There are still some 64-bit era Cybers in service; Syntegra (the remnants of CDC) still support NOS (nee Kronos), NOS/BE (nee SCOPE), and NOS/VE (the 64-bit OS). -dq

25 years, 10 months

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Operating systems / Best in "isolation"

by tarsi＠binhost.com

At 08:59 AM 10/20/00 -0500, you wrote: >I don't know how to state this, so I will blunder in -- > >I have been trying to follow this wide-ranging discussions >about the woes of Microsoft products, of Linux, and so on. > >This may sound anti-Internet, but I see two themes in the >back of these discussions -- > >1. The need to be isolated > >2. consumerism (or vender vs. user choice) > >For the first, with computers so widespread and the ease >to communicate between users so prevalent these days, maybe >we need the exact opposite -- for each of us to be isolated >from one another and not see the other's toys. As I think >Ernest recently said, he was happy with his first Commodore 64 >until someone told him otherwise. If we would instead just >cherish what we have, and <grin> otherwise sit in Dilbert-like >mini-cubicles without the ability to see your neighbor, >then we wouldn't know what we are missing... > >(For you software developers and hardware techs of yore -- >did you complain about the software and hardware 20 years >ago in the same fashion as I hear complaining today? I suspect >so, it is just that we didn't hear it so often as we were >isolated. But then again I can dream that it was better then...) > >For the second, I would like to think that our need to upgrade >should be driven by *our* needs to fix something. I dislike it >when the direction comes from the other end -- that is from the >vender or developer telling me I must upgrade and/or replace something. >When the needs are not truly user driven, then we are in a >marketing situation only, and you know the group of people >that is intended to benefit from that...it doesn't include me. > >I am not exactly thrilled with Microsoft products, and would >rather not buy them. But then again BSD won't serve my family's >needs. Just what is available as a viable alternative for the >"average Joe"? Not much from what I can see. So maybe we shouldn't >be using computers -- they aren't essential, after all <grin> -- >societies flourished for many centuries before the present (and >there is no promise that this society won't "die" just like others >in the past have). > >Just pondering on a Friday -- Luddism and communism in the >morning. Grins.. >Have a good weekend everyone and simmer down. > >Cheers/TTFN, >Kevin Anderson, Bismarck, North Dakota (where I can see the frontier, >and there are unfortunately no PDP 8s or 11s in sight....) >home: K9IUA(a)juno.com >alt: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu

25 years, 10 months

1
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Operating systems / Best in "isolation"

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> For the first, with computers so widespread and the ease > to communicate between users so prevalent these days, maybe > we need the exact opposite -- for each of us to be isolated > from one another and not see the other's toys. As I think > Ernest recently said, he was happy with his first Commodore 64 > until someone told him otherwise. If we would instead just > cherish what we have, and <grin> otherwise sit in Dilbert-like > mini-cubicles without the ability to see your neighbor, > then we wouldn't know what we are missing... I don't think any of us really want to be isolated, we just don't want to suffer from undesirable connectivity. > (For you software developers and hardware techs of yore -- > did you complain about the software and hardware 20 years > ago in the same fashion as I hear complaining today? I suspect > so, it is just that we didn't hear it so often as we were > isolated. But then again I can dream that it was better then...) 20 years ago, I was a systems programmer on a pair of Prime minis. As with most Prime sites in those days, we had the source code to every release of Primos (the OS) that came out, and we had things we thought we could improve on, and did. Since we could just get in there and change it, we didn't think to complain. That included having the source code to the compilers (except now that I think of it, the COBOL compiler), so we could at least find out *why* what we were trying to do didn't work. Prior to that, while in college, I had access to the source code for the CDC Kronos OS, and most of its compilers. I didn't have similar access on the DEC-10 or the IBM 370/158 AP, but on the DEC-10, we had RWATCH in source code form, which let us do almost anything the system operator could do. > For the second, I would like to think that our need to upgrade > should be driven by *our* needs to fix something. I dislike it > when the direction comes from the other end -- that is from the > vender or developer telling me I must upgrade and/or replace > something. Hey, that's called supply-side economics, supposedly a Good Thing. ;-) -dq

25 years, 10 months

1
0
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Operating systems / Best in "isolation"

by kla＠helios.augustana.edu

I don't know how to state this, so I will blunder in -- I have been trying to follow this wide-ranging discussions about the woes of Microsoft products, of Linux, and so on. This may sound anti-Internet, but I see two themes in the back of these discussions -- 1. The need to be isolated 2. consumerism (or vender vs. user choice) For the first, with computers so widespread and the ease to communicate between users so prevalent these days, maybe we need the exact opposite -- for each of us to be isolated >from one another and not see the other's toys. As I think Ernest recently said, he was happy with his first Commodore 64 until someone told him otherwise. If we would instead just cherish what we have, and <grin> otherwise sit in Dilbert-like mini-cubicles without the ability to see your neighbor, then we wouldn't know what we are missing... (For you software developers and hardware techs of yore -- did you complain about the software and hardware 20 years ago in the same fashion as I hear complaining today? I suspect so, it is just that we didn't hear it so often as we were isolated. But then again I can dream that it was better then...) For the second, I would like to think that our need to upgrade should be driven by *our* needs to fix something. I dislike it when the direction comes from the other end -- that is from the vender or developer telling me I must upgrade and/or replace something. When the needs are not truly user driven, then we are in a marketing situation only, and you know the group of people that is intended to benefit from that...it doesn't include me. I am not exactly thrilled with Microsoft products, and would rather not buy them. But then again BSD won't serve my family's needs. Just what is available as a viable alternative for the "average Joe"? Not much from what I can see. So maybe we shouldn't be using computers -- they aren't essential, after all <grin> -- societies flourished for many centuries before the present (and there is no promise that this society won't "die" just like others in the past have). Just pondering on a Friday -- Luddism and communism in the morning. Grins.. Have a good weekend everyone and simmer down. Cheers/TTFN, Kevin Anderson, Bismarck, North Dakota (where I can see the frontier, and there are unfortunately no PDP 8s or 11s in sight....) home: K9IUA(a)juno.com alt: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu

25 years, 10 months

2
1
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Mac II question

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> At 05:23 PM 10/19/00 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> There is also one 72 pin SIMM socket in the mainboard next to the > >> cache slot (which is where the accelerator goes). I > wonder what it is > >> for... > > > >It was meant to be used for ROM upgrades, but Apple never issued any. > > > >-dq > > Oh, so that was it. Thanks for the info! > > One thing that I am wondering is how you expanded the memory beyond > 32 MB. Did Apple sell >4MB 30pin SIMMS? If there are any, they must > be incredibly rare... I've never even _heard_ of them. The Mac IIci was designed to use either parity or non-parity simms... the need for parity simms was for A/UX, Apple's version of Unix. So any set of 4 16MB 30-pin SIMMs from a PC will work just fine. There may be a jumper on the MB for this- can't recall. regards, -dq

25 years, 10 months

1
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Who remembers CDC Plato?...run it again on a cyber at home... could it be done?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Now I never the saw the hardware running Plato. I only know > that it used a CDC cyber. So I am thinking... > > What Cyber ran plato? Well, it would run on anything from a CDC 6600 up to (I think) the Cyber 850. However, Northwestern University created a Plato clone, also using the Tutor language, that could handle more terminal types than the classic Halloween terminal. I used to have the source code (in COMPASS) for MultiTutor... hopefully, the ex-so didn't trash it in '81 when she trashed a bunch of my stuff; it may be in the possession of a comrade. > How big were they?(I heard of huge! Did not find any pics on the > internet of one...) Look for CDC / Control Data instead... here's a link to a small pic of a Cyber 73: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cyber73.gif > What are my chances of fiding one? CDC 6600 Serial Number 1, formerly owned by the Lawrence Livermore Labs, is now at the Computer Museum of History (or is that Computer History Musem) at Moffet Field in Kalifornia. Syntegra (the remnants of CDC) are still supporting NOS, NOS/BE, and NOS/VE, so I'm sure they've got one of the later Cybers running. > And the plato software? (slim I guess...) Among other platforms, Plato was ported to the TI99/A. > If I remember well, there was a emulator for the IBMPC to run a plato > terminal....no touch screen but still...anybody remember this?...that > could save me from having to look for an old "plasma" terminal like they > called them back then... Well, I want one of the Halloween terminals (called that because the plasma display was orange on black) anyway, just to have. There have been a few incomplete attempts at starting an emulator for the CDC/Cyber machines... so far, they implement only the 60-bit modes of the early machines and not the later 64-bit mode needed to run NOS/VE. But someone needs to bring these disparate efforts together. This one will be *much* easier to do than the Multics emulator we often talk about on alt.multics.org. You might also post question in the USENET newsgroup comp.sys.cdc; it hasn't seen much activity lately, so go light a fire! regards, -dq

25 years, 10 months

1
0
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Enough already! (was: Re: MS Laugh-In)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I had the same problem on my servers, killed the audio in the bios > and it persisted. The 4mb Trident AGP video driver was bad news. I used to like Trident, but I consider them foul now, and have exorcised them from almost every machine that had them. > The audio and video drivers in NT4 live in ring zero (low protection) > to make the gamers happy. NT3.51 didn't do this and was far less > prone. Better video and audio drivers often solve the problem. MS has implemented something they call the MHQL for testing drivers (if submitted) for Windows 2000; this contributes greatly to its stability. I haven't seen a BSOD yet, although I had to remove NAI VirusScan, as it caused spontaneous reboots upon logon. > My solution is keep the games, audio and high end video off the > NT box I want it robust. Put those things on a W9x crate and > play there. Again, you really ought to try getting a copy of Win2k, at least for your workstation, so you can evaluate it. I think you'll be surprised and pleased. -dq

25 years, 10 months

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