- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Wanted:TRS80 mod III/IV floppy controller or floppy kit

by claudew＠sprint.ca

Hi Finally picked up a TRS80 mod III for a realistic price. The first home computer I used when I was 15-16. It feels great... Works 100%, bright no-burn tube, 48k. Except for little bit of silver finish off front of keyboard, this unit is perfect. But, it's a no floppy system... I am looking for the floppy disk kit (including floppy mounting bracket if possible) or just a controller or even the controller schematic for a mod III or IV...Would probably install external floppies to keep case in original shape rather then make-up a mounting bracket for the drives if I cant find one... Thanks for reading Claude

25 years, 9 months

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HP 85 available

by r.stek＠snet.net

If anyone is interested, I have an HP 85 available. It works intermittently - it's nothing that re-seating the chips in their sockets fixes! The printer works - don't know about the tape drive. I can pack it, but you will need to pay shipping (and promise to send me your next 'extra' Altair <g>). I can also throw in a new roll of thermal paper (besides the remainder of what is in the unit). I'm near Hartford, CT. email me privately with any bribes. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

25 years, 9 months

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Intro and Nixies

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: J Forbes <jforbes(a)primenet.com> >It had been sitting outside, and was not in very good >condition...but I pulled the display board out, and it seems to >be usefull (see link above for a pic). If you want to drive >Nixies from a TTL BCD signal, just score some 74141 type >devices, they were made for the task! I would also comment that there is a great deal of test equipment that use nixies that with maintence last for many years. My Yasu 350mhz counter is still going and it's 26 years old. Nixies have a good life. However 74141s are getting scarce. >basement, and found a Motorola 6802, 1982 vintage. I wonder if >it's usefull? Why not. I just finished an ELF (using nwer parts) and my CDP1802 chip from 1979 is still good. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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TRS-80 Model 100 to Macintosh

by owad＠applefritter.com

Does anybody have any experience hooking a TRS-80 Model 100 up to a Mac to exchange files? I have the serial cable and the null modem adapter and I've tried both ClarisWorks and ZTerm, but I just can't get the two to talk. Can anybody offer advice? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com

25 years, 9 months

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Off topic but interesting?? Magnetics

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Maybe DHL is flying Junkers Ju-52's or C-47's or maybe even Ford Tri-motors? Bizarre... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

25 years, 9 months

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Homebrewing a digital computer

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Kevin Schoedel <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net> >Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly. In Chuck's machine the >displayed value comes from a 12 line I/O bus. He could build two >different display devices to attach to the bus: one for everyday use, >with LEDs and bcd-to-7-segment decoders, and one special occasions, >with decoders and drivers and sockets for the nixie tubes that he >borrows from whatever machine they otherwise belong to. You can but nixies are a pita to drive. Of era lamping would be bulb per bit. cheaper too. >Yes, he could make 4xx an encoded operation (like pdp8 operate >instructions) such that 400 happens to perform a clear. Or he could >make 4xx load the accumulator with 0xx, so that 400 is again a clear; >this may fit the spirit of the design better. In either case he need >not disclose the extra features at first :-) Exactly. Or the feature could be enabled/disables using a OPR like instruction. >Yes. But since I'm doing a pure 8-bit machine, including 8-bit memory >address, it's *already* limited significantly. I do currently have one >unassigned opcode, so I could add an I/O instruction if it turns out I >have enough board space. More likely I'll just move on to design #2, >where I can hide complexity in microcode. You'll find it doesnt hide. The features grow to increase complexity. ;) > >Yes, I'm still considering something like that, though I'd probably >keep it simpler, and just leave the PC in the accumulator: PC->AC, >MA->PC. I know this probably seems absurdly stripped down to anyone who >already knows what they're doing, but I don't, so I want to keep the >control very, very basic, to reduce the chance of serious errors. Not an unreasonable way. Worth considering as it has good register economy. >I think you're right. I know my current addressing scheme is too >complicated, and I no longer know why I've been so reluctant to give up >page 0 addressing. With say n-bit word and n-bit indirect address page 0 is more efficient but not required. What it does do for short words like 8bit it eats a bit that could be an address. >Do you have any comment on PC-page (upper bits from >PC, lower bits from instruction) versus PC-relative (PC + lower bits >from instruction, either sign extended or not)? Both work. If you're using an indirect address (like PDP-8) then go with PC-page as it much simpler. PC-relative is ok but requires an adder (or more gating to reuse the only adder). If there is one trick to keeping things simple, the fewer paths and gating of things will help simplify. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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RX02 drive emulation (was RE: Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > >I don't have documentation, so I'm not disputing that, but this >makes me very curious. How is it that the RX8-E card (M8357) can deal >with any of: > >1) RX01 >2) RX02 in RX01 mode >3) RX02 in RX02 mode The board has dual interface modes. The RX02 has multiple modes as well. The best way to no results is to try a RX02 in a Qbus box with RX01 controller. Made that error once, wasted a lot of time even though it hurt nothing. >From the standpoint of building a machine from the ttl ground up the RX01 drive controller is a great example of what can be done with little. Instruction set is: WBS (wait, branch, stall IO) DO (do pulse, xx,xxxx bits) JMP (to field X) CBR (conditional branch) It's mildly horizontally code and also verticle coded. Uses 74181 (x2) for the 8bit alu and a pair of 7489s for registers. instruction word is 8bits. Ran fast enough to decode/encode FDC data in real time. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Homebrewing a digital computer

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Kevin Schoedel <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net> >Neat. I occasionally spend a little time working toward building myself a >simple processor. My priorities are rather different, though; I want to >make the 'moving parts' visible as far down as is practical and >affordable (which for me will probably mean SSI TTL, except for the >memory), rather than to make the programming model simple. In the end buildability means a simple machine, not always a simple programming model. >Could one build "nixie tube emulators", for instance using seven-segment >LEDs, and then borrow real ones from some other device for special >occasions? No. Nixie is one of 10 output (highvoltage very low current) and 7Segment is different in every other way. For an era machine 7 segment using incandescent lamps would be valid! > >>4 - CLEAR >> Reset the accumulator (and flags). >> Example: 400 - clears the state of the machine. >> Note: This seems a waste of a major opcode. > >I've tentatively decided that I'll go for a store-and-clear operation, ? >la EDSAC and PDP8, since, in the few sample programs I tried, the value >in the accumulator was still needed after fewer than half the stores. >This might conflict with your goal of simplicity, but on the other hand, >the question of how to retain (regain) the accumulator after a store >might make a good 'Exercise 1'. PDP-8 or the PDP-5 are a good example of minimal but useful instruction sets. PDP-8 savethe AC and store is done one of two ways. You can use the MQ but that requies three locations. SWP DCA N SWP The tighter version is also compatable across all the PDP 5/8 series. CLL DCA N TAD N Three words still but doesn't use a register that may not exist. >Alternatively you could clear with a STORE,SUB pair, at the cost of a >scratch location. You could have a microcoded bit that if set clears the AC. Depends on the number of bits you have to use. >>7 - READ > >After several partial designs than included IN and OUT operations, I >decided to punt I/O almost completely. In my current plans, one operation >can take the switch register as source, and the accumulator lights >(and/or other lights) are the only output. Limts the machine significantly. >>9 - CALL > >I have provisionally punted the CALL, too, as a separate operation; >instead, the same operation that can load the switch register into the >accumulator can similarly load the PC. Unfortunately my current design >requires the PC to then be adjusted explicitly in the subroutine. Look at how PDP-5/8 and other did it. Since memory was a universal store the first location of the JMS is the subroutine return address. That give a very simple implmentation but a real Jump to Suroutine. JMS SUB1 Breaks down to PC-> SUB1, SUB1->PC, PC+1->, fetch PC makes for simple state logic. >I'm still at the stage of designing and "building" fragments in a >simulator, since I have no real experience; I keep making things too >complicated, and then backtracking to simply again. (And I don't work on >it very often.) My current plan is roughly an 8-bit, >stripped-down-PDP8-ish architecture: Suggestion: Eliminate the ISZ from the PDP8 ops and make IOT and ISZ in to INPUT(to ac) and OUTPUT(from AC). Keep indirect addressing and drop page 0 addressing. AND TAD DCA JMP JMS OPR (skips, shifts, clears, misc ops) INP OUT three bit opcode, one bit for indirect address and 4bits for in page address. Direct addressing 256 bytes using indirect addressing. >Any bits in the instruction may of course end up complemented depending >on the nature of available gates :-) I want to hard-wire this one; if I >eventually finish it, next will come a 16-bit (or perhaps 12- or 18- or >24- bit) device with a more sophisticated instruction set and wide dumb >microcode in EEPROMs. Sounds like fun. >One is an 8-bit processor, built from TTL on an 8"x14" prototyping board, >with point-to-point soldered wire. The ALU is a pair of 74181s, and seems >to use 7475s for the registers. There are five sets of 8 LEDs -- memory >address register, program counter, instruction register, memory, and A good design to look at for simplicity and also to illustrate 8bit machine that could become the microcoded core of something bigger check out the controller used in the RX01. It had all the basic elements and was really simple. A variation of the disign was used in the LA120 printer. >A somewhat related 'thing' I picked up last week is some sort of logic >trainer. In a clear plastic frame about 12" x 20" x 6" thick, it has six >*huge* flip-flops (built with power transistors) each with a pair of >output lamps, a jumper area for "programming", and input in the form of a >telephone-style dial. (I assume people here know what a telephone dial is >:-) Haven't traced this one out yet either, but at its scale it won't be >hard. Aint seen one of those for years. Memory serves there were only a few FFs and verly little other logic. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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RX02 drive emulation (was RE: Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: David Gesswein <djg(a)drs-esg.com> >I haven't spent too much time looking at the interface but most of the >smarts are in the drive and serial communication is used to send >commands to it. I have a bunch of information on the RX01, the RX02 should >be similar. Do look. the two are very different. >The cable I made to hook my 8 to the DB25 on the RX02 has 22 wires in it, I >don't remember how many are grounds. Every other one. same for RX01. Different signals though. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Old tandy 1000 keyboard 8 pin din pinout?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>> > slight difference in PUSHF & POPF >> > has ENTER and LEAVE instructions >> > >> > Anyone else remember anything else? > >I believe that the NEC V40 was a drop in (enhanced) replacement >for it. > - don It was similar but not drop in. >> Has two *really* fast DMA channels. It was used alot in embedded DEC TK50 drive used it. Also the TKQ50 inteface did as well. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Welcome and VME

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >Why limit yourself to 8-32 bits, though? What's wrong with 4 bit >machines, 64 bit machines, etc :-). I have a few of the former (mostly as >embedded systems in measuring instruments). Can't hink of anything I've >got wit a wider-than-32 bit data path, but I certainly wouldn't refuse >such a machine... Yes, 10, 18, 24 bits are some of the more interesting of the oldies. I've found with builing or at least designing on paper that unless you want to do an existing machine there is little reason to do what others have. Sizes like 8 and 24 bits are very useful but 4bits can make the ALU core very simple without ruling out complex capability (though slow). The other direction is control oriented machines that are programable but otherwise specific. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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AUCTION> First Year MITS Altair 8800 - Very clean

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Thomas P. Copley <tcopley(a)best.com> >This 8800 is for sale by the first owners. It has the original >switches that are a rare variation--the switch handles are the >flattened "paddle" type as used on the 8800b instead of the "bat >handle" type usually used on 8800s. It includes a MITS 1K RAM board. >The original manual is not included, but is available for an extra, >negotiable price. The switches that were flattend were of the later rev bump, not the very first version. They are essentailly the same part but higher cost (8cents then @ quan 10+). What people forget is there was the 8800, 8800A and 8800B. The A revbump was about a 8months to a year out from first release and had a several desperatly needed fixes. I know I have the early version (SN the 200range) and have built at least three others including an 8800B with friends back then. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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RX02 drive emulation (was RE: Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC)

by djg＠drs-esg.com

> >I'm looking for a way to access a RX0? drive from a PC! I'd like to >archive all the 8" floppies that came with my '780 (including some >CPM/68K distributions) for long-term preservation. > >Anybody done anything like this? I'm still looking for the pinout >of the 10? pin ribbon cable that comes out of the dual floppy box. > >clint > I took the approach of writing a program for the PDP-8 to dump the data out the serial port so I could capture (and restore) the disk images on a PC. If you have an pdp-8 the program dumps the floppies in 8 bit mode so 11 floppies will be correctly dumped also. ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/dumprest.zip I haven't spent too much time looking at the interface but most of the smarts are in the drive and serial communication is used to send commands to it. I have a bunch of information on the RX01, the RX02 should be similar. http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=rx0&stype=Partial+Wo… Or if that excessivly long link doesn't work search for rx0 at http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl If you need more I can see if I have more information I haven't scanned, email me with what you are needing. The cable I made to hook my 8 to the DB25 on the RX02 has 22 wires in it, I don't remember how many are grounds. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights

25 years, 9 months

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[Multics] Message from Corbato

by mac＠Wireless.Com

This note is from http://www.multicians.org/ What a debt we all owe to Multics! Long live Multics! (1965-2000) -Mike ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A Letter from Prof. Corbats (10/30/00) Dear Multicians, It is hard to believe that the last instance of Multics hardware is about to be extinquished. But of course the influence of Multics has probably achieved immortality through the admirable evolution of Unix and more recently Linux. I have often wondered why we so stubbornly worked so hard to make the system survive. My own take on it is that we were young and wanted to make a dent in the psyche of the industry which in those bad old days was incredibly shortsighted. And I think we did. With the creation and persistence of working systems, Multics became a paradigm for a comprehensive solution to a host of system problems that even today are not fully addressed in many systems. In no particular order, some of the key ideas I think of are: a hierarchal file system, system backup policies, rings and memory protection, symmetric multiprocessing, paging and memory management, dynamic linking, access control, and a full character set. I can think of two reasons Multics survived so long. One was its malleability and evolvability which I attribute to the use of a higher level language (despite PL/1!), the major effort to organize and maintain the system with functional modularity, and the avoidance of cute or obscure names in modules. And the second reason was the idealistic zeal of all the Multicians who worked so hard on a system they believed in. And I think we also owe a special debt of gratitude to the original triumvirate of Bob Fano, Ed David and John Weil who had the guts to start it all, to John Couleur and Ted Glaser for their courage in messing with the hardware when the system was nothing but silly putty, and to Elliott Organick who told the world what we were up to. With fond memories, Corby

25 years, 9 months

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Old tandy 1000 keyboard 8 pin din pinout?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> >> An 80_1_86? Really. I guess I was never aware that there was one like >> that ever made. I always thought they jumped from the 8086 to the 80286 >CPU. >> >> Do you have any stats on this little baby? > >Same as the 8086/8086 except: > > slight difference in PUSHF & POPF > has ENTER and LEAVE instructions > >Anyone else remember anything else? Extended set of IO instructions as well. (V20 had instruction set differences but, they were different!) The major difference was the presence of on chip colock gen, DMA controller (non 8237 compatable), interrupt logic (not totally 8259 compatable). As a result any PC made with it was a bit different. Fast parts went to 12mhz and were also developed in CMOS. The 186 was 16bit wide bus like 8086 and 188 was like the 8088 with 8bit busses. The embedded controller market liked it. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Homebrewing a digital computer

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

For VCF next year I'm home brewing a digital computer. The goal is to produce something akin to a CARDIAC that could be used by interested students. This is what I have so far, comments/criticisms/suggestions are welcome:

25 years, 9 months

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Old tandy 1000 keyboard 8 pin din pinout?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:12:07 -0500 Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> writes: > > >I am restoring a TRS80 model 2000 (1983), one of the rare machines > to > > >use an actual 80186 Intel CPU. > > > > An 80_1_86? Really. I guess I was never aware that there was one > like > > that ever made. I always thought they jumped from the 8086 to the > 80286 > CPU. > > > > Do you have any stats on this little baby? > > Same as the 8086/8086 except: > > slight difference in PUSHF & POPF > has ENTER and LEAVE instructions > > Anyone else remember anything else? Has two *really* fast DMA channels. It was used alot in embedded applications where you hade to move a lot of data really fast. Frequently found on SCSI disk controllers (among other things). The MAD-186 by MAD computers was a PC 'sorta compatible', I used to have (it was re-badged by TELEX). It used an 80186. The 3Com 3Server3 was another computer (well, okay, fileserver) that ran a modified MS-DOS (2.x, IIRC), had embedded SCSI (actually SASI), ethernet, and serial/parallel interfaces. It also used the 80186. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 9 months

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AUCTION> First Year MITS Altair 8800 - Very clean

by tcopley＠best.com

This 8800 is for sale by the first owners. It has the original switches that are a rare variation--the switch handles are the flattened "paddle" type as used on the 8800b instead of the "bat handle" type usually used on 8800s. It includes a MITS 1K RAM board. The original manual is not included, but is available for an extra, negotiable price. See its Ebay auction at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=491031767 The current bid is $1,725.00 and the reserve has been met. Bidding closes Sunday night. I am located in Berkeley, California. Questions are welcome. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas P. Copley E-mail: tcopley(a)best.com

25 years, 9 months

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Ebay: Nova 3/12

by ncherry＠home.net

I found this on ebay (no, I'm not the person selling this, I live in NJ) Currently it's going for $9.99. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=494399669 Remember, I have nothing to do with this other than I found it there. (I hope this asbetos suite works ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 9 months

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Old computer book found (fascinating reading/photos):Design of Real Time Computer Systems (J.Martin 1967)

by claudew＠sprint.ca

Hi Just taught I would let you know I am reading this : Design of Real Time Computer Systems (1967 J.Martin)found in a thrift store for $2 and it fascinating - at least for me... Just facinated by the photos and the concepts in there...I was 3 at that time (1967) never used computers before I was about 15-16 (model III I am still hunting for one...) Will just have to scan some of these photos for my vintage computer collection web site. I don't have machines from that era but some of these pics are just great!!! Since I have so much space left in my basement (already use 2/3 - I love my wife...) I seem to have now made the very reasonnable decision to extended my vintage computer collection to old books, magazines and manuals...I might have develloped some kind of mental illeness now, I recently mentionned "need more space for computer collection" as a reason to my wife to justify getting a larger house... Claude

25 years, 9 months

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RX02 drive emulation (was RE: Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) <vaxman(a)uswest.net> >I'm looking for a way to access a RX0? drive from a PC! I'd like to >archive all the 8" floppies that came with my '780 (including some >CPM/68K distributions) for long-term preservation. RX01 is SSSD and most pc controllers are problematic with that mostly due to cost cutting. Mest best would be a machine with wd36c65 based chip (with both clocks available) as it can do all rates. You will have to create you own driver for the SSSD. I do it all the time with my CP/M crate (native 8" SSSD support). The varios other 8" formats that did get used may require a WD1771/and/or/WD1793 based controller (very non PC) to read the possible and sometimes oddball formats used. RX02 is a truly unique format and only RX02 (or the few clones) actually can read that (you must have a PDP-8, PDP-11 or VAX in other words) as most are Omnibus, Unibus or Qbus. >Anybody done anything like this? I'm still looking for the pinout >of the 10? pin ribbon cable that comes out of the dual floppy box. 10???? more like 40 for either rx02 or rx01. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Two analog computer theads at once. COOOL! Don said: > And rather smaller and lighter than the Navy's Mark 1A (analog) fire > control computer which did a rather precise job of laying 2000# 16" > - - and smaller - projectiles to the desired location. For those that are saying "What's a Mk.1?" - my Ford Instrument page: http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog/fordsperry.htm For more information - The Mark 1 Fire Control Computer: http://www.warships1.com/W-Tech/tech-056.htm --Doug =================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr Software Engineer mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Visit the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ===================================================

25 years, 9 months

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Old tandy 1000 keyboard 8 pin din pinout?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >I am restoring a TRS80 model 2000 (1983), one of the rare machines to > >use an actual 80186 Intel CPU. > > An 80_1_86? Really. I guess I was never aware that there was one like > that ever made. I always thought they jumped from the 8086 to the 80286 CPU. > > Do you have any stats on this little baby? Same as the 8086/8086 except: slight difference in PUSHF & POPF has ENTER and LEAVE instructions Anyone else remember anything else? -dq

25 years, 9 months

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Old tandy 1000 keyboard 8 pin din pinout?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Claude <claudew(a)sprint.ca> >I am restoring a TRS80 model 2000 (1983), one of the rare machines to >use an actual 80186 Intel CPU. Correction and nit, RARE PCs to use 80186. They were widely used for other non PC systems. It was a 8086 with onchip clock gen, memory selects and DMA. Excellent for embeeded uses that were formally 808x, 8224a, 8288. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Phil Budne <phil(a)ultimate.com> >I've always wanted to do the same sort of thing for RX02's; fool my >RXV211 into thinking a PC at the other end of the ribbon cable is a >pair of RX02's. It seems feasible using just a parallel port; >despite the width of the ribbon cable, it doesn't carry many signals. Why must it be a parallel port? a M8250 serial would work too though a new "RX" driver to talk to it would be needed. Also the RX01 controller is serial not parallel so that could be used in a different way. In the end any IO can be used if you create a driver to fake a known device. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Pal and NTSC

by lgwalker＠look.ca

I have an old famicon game system that is PAL-compliant. Other than a PAL/NTSC converter or PAL TV is there any way of hooking this up. ? I do have a kaleidoscopic collection of monitors as well as several VCR tape decks and a JDH Videomate external VGA/TV adapter which allows me to use my NEC multisync as an all- purpose viewer. It has an H-Phase pot whose response on the monitor is a shift to the side of the display and otherwise not causing any picture distortion. I recall on my Atari there were programs that shifted from 60mhz to 50mhz and allowed you to play PAL formatted games, but in this case there is no computer intervention with the JDH. It is a straight-thru switch. I don't consider this OT since the PAL/NTSC is a problem for all collectors who are internationally-connected in this media. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker(a)look.ca

25 years, 9 months

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Tandy 1000 EX

by ncherry＠home.net

All this talk of the Tandy 1000/2000 reminds me; does anyone have a boot disk for this beast? Also what are the internals drives, DS 40 Track or 96? I intend on putting the DOS in ROM (flash) so I can use it as a terminal at the very least. I may also build a LAN interface with an NE2000 clone. Of course this means upgrading to a new DOS but I think I can get freedos working on it. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 9 months

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"Basics of Analog Computers" book

by r.stek＠snet.net

During the recent flame war, I was reminded that I have a hardcover book, "Basics of Analog Computers" by T. D. Truit and A.E. Rogers, 1960, Rider Publishers, in exeptional condition with dust cover. Although it would go for hundreds of dollars on eBay (I wish!) I thought I would offer it here in hopes of ingratiating myself to some fellow list member for a favor as yet to be determined. (BTW, there is a punched card in it used as a bookmark that would fetch $10-$20 alone on eBay <g>). So, here's the deal - I will send the book for shipping costs to the best 37-words-or-less reason for why you want / deserve / would-kill-for this classic, antique, vintage, pre-Altair, pre-S-100, pre-Intel, pre-historic tome on analog computers, beautifully illustrated (seriously) with pen-and-ink drawings on about every other page. Submit your entries to the list by midnight November 10, 2000. Decision of the judge is final. All entries become the property of everyone else. Contestants must be 18 months or older. Offer not valid in Minot, N.D. or to relatives or employees therein. Allow 8 weeks for delivery. Notary sojac. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

25 years, 9 months

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Tandy 1000 EX

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> All this talk of the Tandy 1000/2000 reminds me; does anyone > have a boot disk for this beast? I have two sets of MS-DOS & MS-BASIC for the T2000. Currently, I don't have time to set up the machine to do any duplication, but maybe around Christmas (setting up means finding space to put it, etc). Claude needs a set of copies; if anyone other than Neil needs them, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do as winter sets in. -dq

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Frank Fink is more the welcome to the bombsight, just send me > the B-17. ;p ROFL!

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

I would also make the point that it isn't programmable.. The Mark I was programmable, though it lacked the ability to store programs. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

25 years, 9 months

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Mac video (was Re: Pal and NTSC)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Lawrence Walker <lgwalker(a)look.ca> wrote: > I do have a 7100/66 AV. My biggest problem is that none of my > VCRs has S control inputs only RCA jacks and I haven't found a > source for the proper plugs... Speaking of Mac video, I'm getting a 6100 from my youngest brother (as soon as I can get over to his house to pick it up) and it apparently has a funky connector that requires some sort of pod to break out regular video signals/connectors. This Mac does not have said pod/cable. Where can I get one? (presumable for less than what Apple would charge for a new one - this is a $20 computer). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Frank Fink is more the welcome to the bombsight, just send me the B-17. ;p _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

25 years, 9 months

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Mac video (was Re: Pal and NTSC)

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

At 10:46 AM 11/10/00 -0500, you wrote: >I think that is one of a very few that uses a square high-density jack on >the machine? You should be able to get a cable to a standard Mac monitor >or to an SVGA from MacWorld. Yes, the 6100 uses the 45 pin connector that was to be used with thier 14" multimedia monitor that never took off. Adapters for both VGA and Mac-style connectors are readily available. Even on eBay, they tend to go for between $15 and $19 generally. Now if it's a 6100/AV, it will have a standard Mac connecotr on the AV card, along with the S-video in/out jacks. Take care Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ

25 years, 9 months

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Looking for old Mac software

by vcf＠siconic.com

Has anyone ever heard of some software for the Mac called "Guide for the Macintosh" by Office Workstations Ltd., circa 1980s? Anyone actually have it? If so, please let me know. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 9 months

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OT: So where was I?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

http://www.iit.edu/~kallend/rocketsci.wav

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >It's not stretching it at all to consider the Norden to > >be an analog computer. I'm not really sure how it could > >be considered to be otherwise. > > > IBM had a Norden in its (internal only) computer museum, > so that helps support the claim of it being an (analog) > computer. IIRC, Frank Fink has a few of these, and he told me he's always looking for more... -dq

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

While the Norden bombsight was smaller, etc., it would be stretching it by a large degree to compare it to a computer.. I'm fairly certain Allison was referring to the Mark I... Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

25 years, 9 months

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Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC

by phil＠ultimate.com

I've always wanted to do the same sort of thing for RX02's; fool my RXV211 into thinking a PC at the other end of the ribbon cable is a pair of RX02's. It seems feasible using just a parallel port; despite the width of the ribbon cable, it doesn't carry many signals.

25 years, 9 months

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Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC

by Anthony.Eros＠compaq.com

Tom Stepleton is the guy running this project -- I lent him my Lisa for his work. Here's a wrap-up summary he sent me on the project just before he returned the system to me. -- Tony ---------------------- Here's a summary of what I've done. Addressing the unreliability of the wiring in the last attempt, I completely rewired the prototyping board and switched to a single 84-pin MAX 7000 chip and adapter instead of the Altera experimentation board used in class. Physically speaking, the circuit is complete. I was able to get the circuit to succesfully dupe the Lisa into believing that there really was a ProFile attached to the port. Unfortunately, there is really no interim step between that and full functionality. I came a long way, but I didn't make it. Here's what I managed to do: Linux side: On a machine borrowed from Professor Maxwell, I installed a secondary Linux kernel - version 2.4.0-test4 - which provides the latest facilities for manipulating the parallel port from a userland program (read more at http://people.redhat.com/twaugh/parport/html/parportguide.html). This is a really neat driver, incidentally, although it is still in development. Using this driver, I created MrProfile, a rudimentary ProFile emulation program. MrProfile currently responds to interrupts generated by the adapter, but all calls to read() extract zero bytes of data from the port. Whether this is due to poor programming, the driver, or a malprogrammed board is not yet clear. Adapter side: Using what I learned in making the program to fake a ProFile's existence, I completely reprogrammed the full-featured version of the adapter circuit. The philosophy behind the device's role has not changed much from before, but the code has been altered quite a bit to suit the whims of Altera. What happens: Activity on the Lisa side causes the adapter to alert the PC with an interrupt. The PC fails to read any data from the parallel port; the adapter sits waiting for something to happen, and the Lisa eventually times out. There are three reasons for why this is happening, now that poor connectivity has been ruled out (via multimeter): metastability, flaws in parallel port driver, and poor assumptions about the EPP parallel port standard. I don't think it's the first, because the problem is always the same. I feel it's about even odds between the second and third choices. The future: I'm not giving up, but the likelihood that I'll be able to put real work into it this fall is not all that great. Just in case the hardware has been programmed correctly, I'm taking the prototype board home to my two Lisas there (hope this is OK, Bruce), where I'll try getting it to work with an old Pentium 90. Even if the hardware is slightly faulty, the low-level programming capability of the parallel port driver suggests that I will be able to get around it. However, if I've made an error on the Lisa side, I'll be out of luck. I'll see what options I have and then make decisions. I'll also turn over all of my code to the folks on the Lisa and Lisa Emulator mailing lists at sunder.net and see if they can offer any tips. > ---------- > From: John Lewczyk[SMTP:jlewczyk@his.com] > Reply To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 11:16 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Lisa Profile Drive emulation on a PC > > There was someone trying to interface a Lisa to a PC, making the PC act > like a > Profile drive. That college class project didn't get completed, but there > is a > bunch of info on the project, the Profile and Lisa parallel port at: > http://www.cs.swarthmore.edu/~tom/cs23/final/ > > I thought that this was a terrific project, as Profile drives are become > rarer > and they will probably all break down before the Lisa's do. Making a PC > act > like a Profile is a great solution. Unfortunately, I have never received > a > response from the folks at swarthmore college and suspect the project is > abandoned. :-( > > Anyone know what happened to the project, or are there others who have > done > this? I worry about my profile drives dying before my Lisa and would love > to > have a PC as a backup. If no one (is doing/has done) this, I may take my > own > shot at it. > > John > jlewczyk(a)his.com >

25 years, 9 months

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Here's one for the DEC engineers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com> > >I thought that you said the CE (Circus Engineer) did NOT recognize it?? > >Did you really mean to say: > >"The CE that did NOT recognize it however didn't fare as well. ;)" ??? Actaully I wrote what I ment but I like your version as both were true. The CE that got bounced, suffered. The next one had a dog on his hands. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Here's one for the DEC engineers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

-----Original Message----- From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com> >Jerome Fine replies: > >I had to read it 5 times before I realized that the "cab" and the >"HSC thingie" were the same. Subtle. Very good. I had a >much better laugh as a result. More at myself, of course. The CE that did recognize it however didn't fare as well. ;) Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> >>> While the Norden bombsight was smaller, etc., it would be stretching it >>>by a >>> large degree to compare it to a computer.. I'm fairly certain Allison was >>> referring to the Mark I... >> >>It's not stretching it at all to consider the Norden to be an analog >>computer. I'm not really sure how it could be considered to be otherwise. > >Its a single purpose device. Computers tend to be flexible. I would call it >more of a calculator, or really a mechanical compensator. Really wrong. First calculator is a fixed program computer (mechanical or otherwise) And the lack of programability would certainly be significant for a large class of machines as to their status. We have machines (electronic, electrical, mechanical, water, air, whatever) that can: Perform repeated steps (cams, timers) Perfom compensating controls (servos, thermostats) Perform a calcuation based on several variables Subgroup fixed program (calculators) Subgroup programable by wires, jumpers, cams, gears, relays, roms (calculators, embedded computers) Variable program ("true computers", programable calculators) See the linkage, as soon as the system takes on multiple variables and procudes a results based on them we are doing calculation... Computing is just a different name. Oh, the example I posted was written with Norden Bombsight, Mark-1A and most any other tool used to calculate ballistic trajectories. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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OpenVMS Hobbyist License Question

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Does anyone happen to have a list of what the various layered product PAKs in the OpenVMS Hobbyist program go to? I'm specifically wanting to know what the SQL-DEV PAK is for, but am interested in the rest if anyone has such a list. Zane

25 years, 9 months

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Pal and NTSC

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 8, 18:07, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If I remember correctly, the format difference between PAL and NTSC lies not > only in the difference in the vertical refresh rate but also in that the > NTSC format is based on 525 horizontal scans per frame, while PAL uses 625. > I'm not at all sure about whether PAL interlaces in the same way as NTSC > does it, and, in fact, I'm not sure that they do that at all. One is a consequence of the other. The most obvious difference between PAL and NTSC is the use of different vertical scan rates (50Hz vs 60Hz) but they use the same horizontal scan rate (15.something kHz), so if you do the arithmetic, you'll see why they use different numbers of scan lines (625 vs 525). They both use interleave; so the number of full frames is 25 per second or 30 per second. They also differ in the way they encode colour information. The basic scheme is similar but the subcarrier frequencies differ, and in the case of PAL, there is a "colour burst" of pure subcarrier at the start of every line. This allows the circuitry to synchronise better. Also, the colour signal is 180deg different in phase on every second line (hence the name, Phased Alternate Line) which makes it a little more stable. In the context of broadcast TV, they also use diffent audio subcarriers (in fact, there are several PAL variants, used in different countries. They're called PAL/G, PAL/K, PAL/I, etc). The net result is that you can often use a PAL display instead of an NTSC one or vice-versa, but you would expect to lose the colour and sound. You might possibly have to tweak the vertical hold to get a steady picture. Since the sync pulses are encoded in the same way, any monitor or TV should lock on to the horizontal signal perfectly, but the vertical might be beyond the range of the sync circuit (it's usually OK in practice, though). I bet Tony knows more about this than I do. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > An older elector mechanical device did this for a different > problem. > > > > Given variables: speed over surface, > > altitude, > > gravity, > > an objects drag > > > > Problem: At what time do you release an object to hit a > > predetermined spot. > > > > Hint: it was top secret in the early 1940s. > > And I would like to see an accurate simulation of one. I've seen > the real thing, but being fastened to a metal post set into a concrete > floor, it wasn't in operable condition. Not to mention that none of the > dials were labeled, undoubtedly because the functions of each were also > top secret at the time it was manufactured. I think I've seen a photo of this, with Vannevar Bush standing over it, looking at it. -dq

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Ever since the late 60's, very large simulations of power >grids were being performed on analog computers for the purposes of >contingency analysis and dynamic stability assessment. These >special-purpose analog computers filled entired rooms and sometimes >had thousands of dynamic states (one integrator per dynamic state). Exactly! An older elector mechanical device did this for a different problem. Given variables: speed over surface, altitude, gravity, an objects drag Problem: At what time do you release an object to hit a predetermined spot. Hint: it was top secret in the early 1940s. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Memorex/Termiflex One-handed terminal?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:07:20 -0600 Bill Richman > <bill_r(a)inetnebr.com> wrote: > > Our mainframe guys recently got rid of some big hard drive chassis, > > and in the process of cleaning up they were going to thow away (!) a > > couple of little Memorex/Termiflex one-handed terminals that I've > > lusted after ever since I saw the service engineer using them. I > > think they're a 1 or 2-line LED dot-matrix display, and > they have some > > form of "chording" keyboard on the front. > > Sounds like the old Microwriter, or even the original chord > keyboard that Doug Engelbart used with the mouse. > > I'd love to see a picture of one of these, to get some idea > of how the chording works. I have a couple of Microwriters: There are two photos of Doug's chord keyset in issue #4 of MacWorld. If you can't find a copy, let me know, I'll see if I can remeber to bring it in to the orifice and scan it for you. -dq

25 years, 9 months

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Here's one for the DEC engineers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bill Pechter <pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org> >The only problem with CSSE is they made it so easy to work on the DEC >stuff Field Service management began hiring the clueless to work cheap >and they lost a lot of the clued folks to people who changed the board >with the RED led lit. One day they worked on VT220's the next they >were promoted to your VAX cluster! Management... They took the work and tried to understand it. Field Circus management was a bunch of ex-bag carriers that felt they were the best and the rest were dumb. The end result is that first you couldn't find people that knew what a scope was and you still had to fix it due to committed response time. The latter often led to get a body there, NOW, I dont care who. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Here's one for the DEC engineers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com> >I was told that while working on an 11/34A, one fellow from DEC >Field Circus blew all the boards in the backplane when he removed >the memory - seems that he forgot to turn off the power!! My favorite is a Field Circus CE arrives at site and while walking through the room he picks a likely cab to lay his stuff on. Then proceeds to ask where is this HSC thingie. Rumor has it the manager of the site was seen escorting the CE out the door with great vigor. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Memorex/Termiflex One-handed terminal?

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

Our mainframe guys recently got rid of some big hard drive chassis, and in the process of cleaning up they were going to thow away (!) a couple of little Memorex/Termiflex one-handed terminals that I've lusted after ever since I saw the service engineer using them. I think they're a 1 or 2-line LED dot-matrix display, and they have some form of "chording" keyboard on the front. They terminate in a 9 pin female DIN-like connector with some kind of twist-lock. I believe they're RS-232, but was wondering if anyone could supply a pinout. They also came with a cable with the same connector (also female) on one end and a male DB-25 on the other, which is marked "RS-232 Modem Interface". I'm guessing that you could plug in either one of these terminals or a modem to the same connector on the disk controller. I can always figure out the pin-out from that cable and give it a try, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing something vital (like a TTL-to-RS232 adapter) that they might require, before I hook one up wrong and fry it. (I know, I could open one of them up and see what the cable connects to, but I'm being lazy. Besides, this way I get to brag about them... ;-) Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator!

25 years, 9 months

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Convergent Technologies Workslate

by r.stek＠snet.net

I recently acquired a Workslate and matching printer in excellent condition - still a pretty cool looking unit. The guy I got them from thought it ran CP/M, but it uses a 6803 with its own proprietary 'OS.' The manuals make no mention of the specs for the (missing) wall warts. Does anyone have a Workslate with the power supplies? Since both units use 4 AA, alkaline or nicads, I guess it's not too critical. Also, knowing the polarity would be helpful. Thanks. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

25 years, 9 months

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HP 35401A Autoloader Tape Drive??

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ip500 <ip500(a)home.com> wrote: > Anyone have any data on this beast? Catalog sheet or tech sheet would > be ideal. It talks to the outside world via HPIB cable. It's approximately an HP9144 cartridge-tape drive with an autochanger. -Frank McConnell

25 years, 9 months

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Electra sim computer (was: Re: "Basics of Analog Computers" book)

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

"Mark Gregory" <gregorym(a)cadvision.com> said: > If the captions on the pictures (very nice, by the way) are correct, this Yes, they are terrific. Gene, tell us where this simulator is located. > simulator isn't an analog computer at all by the definition I'm familiar > with. It uses tubes and relays, which are discrete digital components Well others here have covered your misconception about tubes. But relays are also an important part of an analog computer. Relays can be used to connect and disconnect special circuits like weather, hazards, malfunctions. Relays are also used on every integrator to set that integrator back to it's initial conditions when the computer is reset. What tells me that it's analog is: * The fact that it has to stablize for 7 days * The main output is plotting boards * All of the panel meters I see * The operator's panel is just switches and knobs * "relay/tube" modules are just too big to be logic circuits. * Aircraft simulators need the true parallel processing of an analog computer. (Up until the early 70's) * I really don't see anything that suggests digital components anywhere in these pictures. Thanks for the pictures Gene. Where I work in Sunnyvale is right on the approach for NAS Moffett field. P3s fly over all the time. --Doug =================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr Software Engineer mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Visit the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ===================================================

25 years, 9 months

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"Basics of Analog Computers" book

by mranalog＠home.com

Bob said: > ...."Basics of Analog Computers" by T. D. Truit and A.E. Rogers, ...... > to the best 37-words-or-less reason for why you want ...... pre-historic > tome on analog computers, beautifully illustrated (seriously) with > pen-and-ink drawings on about every other page. Submit your entries to the > list by midnight November 10, 2000......... I have this book highlighted on my reading list of analog computer books as "the best book I have seen for someone new to analog computers". http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog/readlist.htm Most books on analog computing use tons of mathematical equations to illustrate a concept because they are aimed only at engineers. This book explains these concepts simply with wonderful drawings and a minimum of mathematics. I love reading it so much that I have one copy at work and one copy at home. But hey, that's just me. :) --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

25 years, 9 months

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An article on the ZX-81 kits still being sold in the US

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

> On Nov 7, 16:09, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Not completely. There _are_ 2 KB kits around - as you may remember, > > the ZX81 board was to be used with either two 2114 (1KB)or one > > 6116(2KB). Man, I'd like to get my hands on a 2 KB ZX-81 kit! ;>) To my knowledge, no ZX-81, kit or otherwise, shipped with 2 KB RAM, even though the boards could support it. The Timex TS1000 came standard with 2 KB. Glen 0/0

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: > An older elector mechanical device did this for a different problem. > > Given variables: speed over surface, > altitude, > gravity, > an objects drag > > Problem: At what time do you release an object to hit a > predetermined spot. > > Hint: it was top secret in the early 1940s. I would expect this is the Norden Bomb Sight (as made famous to my generation on "Hogan's Heroes" :-) -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

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Anyone have an RK8E to sell?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

Now that I'm dusting off the RK05j for my Qbus systems, I'm interested once again in attempting to finally hook a RK drive off of a PDP-8. I have an RL8A and RK8E and a bunch of standard stuff, but I've never had the chance to round out the collection. So... are there any RK8Es that aren't nailed down? Thanks, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

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"Basics of Analog Computers" book

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Mark Gregory <gregorym(a)cadvision.com> >Well this has certainly been an informative (and eye-opening) thread for me. >I had no idea that analogue computers were as common and as long-lived as >they were. That last word should be not WERE but, ARE. They still are used. > In the only "History of Computation" course that was included in >my Comp Sci program, analogue computers were treated only incidentally, with >the implication that development ceased with the advent of digital computers >(whether electro-mechanical or electronic) in the mid 1940s. In that course >and in other computing histories I've read, analogue computers seem to be an >unfairly neglected topic. They were not always thought of as computers, hence the neglect. Think servo systems and they come back as those very non digital systems. They may have been part of a larger mixed system like a attitude control system in a missle or autopilot for an airplane. The systems encompassed in the analog computers are around us still. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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"Basics of Analog Computers" book

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> >particular, I recall reading about a '60ish project by one of Britain's >Formula One makers to use a computer to control a F1-machine driving >around an actual circuit in lieu of the driver. As I recall the story, >it did not make it beyond the second turn. However, an analogue >computer handled the task quite well. Apocryphal? ??? this confuses the ideas of precision, accuracy and speed with complexity. Digital is absolute accuracy IE: 0101=5 and for a given machine any variation is error. Analog, is mushy on accuracy, 5 Volts at some output is "approximate". Digital to process data for a complex equation in real time has to collect it perform operations on it and output it. These occur at some rate that is fixed by hardware. The more complex the task the lower the total Throughput will be. Also there is latentcy, time from input to processed output, more complex means longer for a fixed speed. Analog, assuming a fixed slew rate for the op-amps used the system throughput IE: a change in input means near immediate change in output that will be complete in some "setteling time". That time even for slow op-amps is quite fast and usually in microseconds. Also analog does not mean the output cant be absolute (IF Vin or Fin exceeds N (some rate) then turn relay on). I've done some really neat things using pots realys and motors with only limited use of amplifying devices to trans late the pots output to something that can drive a motor. This is classic servo systems stuff and the fundemental circuit is the Wheatstone bridge for systems like this. If you add nonlinear devices like LOG taper pots(variable resistors) and gears and cams you can get reactions that can mimic things like non linear actions. The idea of balance is employed. This kind of automation was as common as flies and widely seen though often as simple devices. There is another group of machines that fall dead smack in the middle of the analog and the digital. These were the early preprocessing boxes that might take 8 channles of analog telemetry data and reduce it to stored data based on time, sensor and relative value or even as a histogram. While these machines would have counters, registers and some even core or drum(disk) they were at best not programable and most didn't even qualify as hardwired program (elementary state machine). Just a few points about early computer differences. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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HP 35401A Autoloader Tape Drive??

by ip500＠home.com

This should just make the 10 year rule...it had a service sticker on it >from 1988. Cool, robotic magazine fed tape drive that holds 8 of the DC600A 1/4" tape cassettes and autofeeds them into the drive. All of my old HP reference stuff lists mass storage gear under 79xx series rather than this 35401A business Anyone have any data on this beast? Catalog sheet or tech sheet would be ideal. It talks to the outside world via HPIB cable. Thanks, Craig

25 years, 9 months

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HP DraftMaster I

by sumeetsuri＠psu.edu

Hi guys, I am sure I am very late in your discussion. Right now I am using the HP 9872 plotter and I need another piece. Could u tell me where I can find a HP 9872 plotter. Thanks a lot Sumeet

25 years, 9 months

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MULTICS Installation, Halifax

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >I should have mentioned that Multics also was closely tied > >to a 36-bit word size... a re-implementation could probably > >get around this, but a port would be difficult... > > > >However, a port would work for an emulator, where you'd have > >control of all aspects of the target architecture. > > Well.... Then How about one of the following Chips? Itanium, Alpha, > PA-RISC, or UltraSparc? Would a 64-bit computer be able to > handle running a 36-bit OS? Certainly... in fact, this topic generated some heat. It's my contention that being bottom-feeder commodity equipment, the Intel line would be more cost-effective than an Alpha. But that's irrelevantif you've got a box of surplus Alpha chips lying around. And the IA64 won't quite be bottom-feeder commidity for a year or two, at least. ;-) > On the emulator side there are definitly 36-bit systems emulated on 32-bit > chips, and even on 16-bit systems (at least IIRC, the 68000 is a 16-bit > chip). I'm still waiting to get my hands on one of these mythical PDP-10 emulators... I want my own DECSYSTEM-10, even if it's really running on an old Mac. regards, -dq

25 years, 9 months

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reading a 9-track tape

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

Hi. Can anyone read a 9-track tape? I have a tape I'd like to read, but I have no tape drive for those tapes. I was wondering if anyone in europe could read it for me. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

25 years, 9 months

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Fibre Channel-related items up for grabs

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I got these items in a batch of other surplus items and I'm trying to determine their use or value. If anyone on this list is interested, please send a note, or off to eBay they go. See http://www.threedee.com/optics/ for pictures and more detailed descriptions. One is a HP A3406A Fibre Channel Host Adapter. I wasn't able to find this part number on HP/Aligent's web site, and it produced few other web hits. This a HP-HSC card, as used in today's K-series of servers. It can sustain 1/4 gigabit rates. Another item is a HP 83441B SONET SDH reference receiver. Is this used in testing very high speed optical networking equipment? It supports 622 Mbps SONET OC-12 and SDH and STM-4. It has fiber input on one end and RF output on the other. Another interesting item is a 28-pin DIP that appears to be a 20 mw semiconductor laser. This is an XMT1300-1.2, an optical driver for Fibre Channel (FC-0). An optical fiber emerges from one end and terminates in a standard pigtail fiber connector. It is a 20 milliwatt, Class 3b semiconductor laser, probably GaAs, centered at 1300 nm. It was made in 1991, so I felt close enough to the 10-year rule to post. :-) It was made by BT&D Technologies (British Telecom + Dupont) in 1991, now part of Agilent Technologies, a Hewlett-Packard company. It is one of their "logic to light" transmitters. - John

25 years, 9 months

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Here's one for the DEC engineers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> >Well, I've got to give a toast to the folks in DEC Engineering, it may be >that they had to deal with Field Circus screwing things up, but I for one >really appreciate that DEC used keyed connectors, and appropriate cables, >and sturdy hardware. I'm also glad that whomever designed the TQK70 did so >such that plugging it in backwards in the Q-bus does it no apparent harm. I Thank you from myself and all the other CSSE engineers. Those little details were part of requirements for serviceability that came from the Field Service side of the house and implemented in best technology by engineering. Brief DEC history about the group that was often known as product prevention. Customer Support Systems Engineering (CSSE) was an engineering arm that came into being back in the late 70s when DEC started to see more volume then quality. One of the first processes created by Field Circus was FA&T (factory assemble and test) was the starting point. The field and FA&T feedback went far in the 80s to eliminate the unreachable screws, scope required to setup, special tools and too many similar connectors. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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An article on the ZX-81 kits still being sold in the US

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 7, 16:09, Hans Franke wrote: > Not completely. There _are_ 2 KB kits around - as you may remember, > the ZX81 board was to be used with either two 2114 (1KB)or one > 6116(2KB). Not exactly; originally, it was a 2 x 2114 or 1 x 4118. Most UK ZX81s have a 4118, though some users did replace the 4118 with a 6116. I've never seen one originally fitted with a 6116, only upgrades (and I've seen a lot of ZX81s -- the workshop I was in at the time used to fix them by the bucketload). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 9 months

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Analog vs Digital devices, was Magnetics

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)panix.com> >meter, in real time. This may sound cumbersome today, but consider in >that in the mid fifties, digital computers were very, very expensive, >fairly rare, and every single problem required much analysis and coding, It would be 1979 before there was DSP fast enough to do a FIR filter digially for audio frequencies, Analog had been doing that for 30+ years. > PS: Anyone *really* interested in getting into analog computing might do >well to consider scarfing up a Heathkit EC-1 when possible.. they are >simple, small and portable, and have easily replaceable tubes, and having >(IIRC) 9 opamps, one can get quite elaborate with them. One could duplicate it using modern analog opamps and still solve the same problems. The best one I remember solved a bouncing ball, for varying gravity and rebound rates and "drew it" on an O'scope face. It was a Popular Electronics (maybe RE) design. Still very buildable. It's often forgotten that there were different op-amp designs that allowed things like four quadrant multiplcation, LOG and ANTILOG amps, CLIPPING, SUM, DIFFERNCE, ABSOLUTE VALUE when combined allow solutions of great speed with good accuracy. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Vax message as system locks up

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bill Bradford <mrbill(a)mrbill.net> >> %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, R7VEFG$DIA0: is offline. Mount verification in progress. >> After that I get a red line on the drive indicator and anything I on the >> console never returns. >> Any ideas? I have used varios drives that can handle the 512byte sectoring and they work fine. I have two Tohsiba XM3201B and a XM3501B that works fine for VMS. So there are other drives that do work. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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Off topic but interesting?? Magnetics

by ip500＠home.com

Sold a pair of old Jensen speakers to a guy in Korea the other day and am shipping them via DHL Worldwide. They have refused to accept the items until I come up with a "gauss reading" for the magnetic field???? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? I did a fair bit of research and found their maximum allowable reading is ".00525" but no one at DHL has a clue what that means. I'm assuming it is a measurement in gauss at some prescribed distance from the package. On average the strength of most high powered speaker magnets is in the range of 10,000 to 15,000 gauss, but that is measured at the voice coil [in the center of the field]. The field would decrease [as the square or maybe even the cube] of the distance. Stumped, Craig

25 years, 9 months

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Vax message as system locks up

by ncherry＠home.net

A while back I posted a message and mentioned a problem with the drives unmounting. Well here is the message: %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, R7VEFG$DIA0: is offline. Mount verification in progress. After that I get a red line on the drive indicator and anything I on the console never returns. Any ideas? -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 9 months

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KA650 in MicroVAX BA123?

by jamesg＠PARRIMARK.COM.AU

I am relatively new to the VAX world, but I have already established that the very same thing was done to my MicroVAX by the previous owner... I have heaps of questions for the guy, but regretfully I inherited it from a deceased estate :-( What else was done as part of the MicroVAX II -> 3 upgrade? James > I have a MicroVAX II which has been upgraded to a > MicroVAX 3. I say MicroVAX 3 because that is what > is on the upgrade decal and the DEC instruction > booklet refers to the upgrade as a Microvax 3. Are > there MicroVAX III decals out there, is the > MicroVAX 3 decal unusual, or are both common? > > Doug. >

25 years, 9 months

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Anderson Jacobsen ADC 300 modem

by jfoust＠threedee.com

On a recent surplus hunt, I picked up an Anderson Jacobson ADC 300 baud acoustic coupler modem for $1. What a beauty - it's in a wooden box with a flip-top lid and a brushed aluminum interior panel. It has two DB-25 connectors, but one is used to feed *in* the AC power (!). I haven't disassembled it yet. I did a quick web search and one turns up in Megan Gentry's collection. How old is this? It's serial number 759. - John

25 years, 9 months

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OpenVMS Hobbyist Install

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bob Brown <bbrown(a)harper.cc.il.us> >I see that the RZ25 is not supported to install the openvms 7.2 system to Dont tell my system that. It is supported. >(from the hobbyist cd)..would that explain the numerous parity errors that >I get when I try to install to an RZ25? (or is my RZ25 probably toast)... You either have the jumpers wrong or a bad drive (missing terminator?). Allison

25 years, 9 months

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KA650 in MicroVAX BA123?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: DOUG PEKSA - COMPG <PeksaDO(a)Cardiff.ac.uk> >is on the upgrade decal and the DEC instruction >booklet refers to the upgrade as a Microvax 3. Are >there MicroVAX III decals out there, is the >MicroVAX 3 decal unusual, or are both common? No, not unusual.Standard FS kits usually have all sorts of docs and rebadging material. What often happend was that someone would upgrade by attrition of another system or by ordering just what was required. With that you could have an assortment of markings. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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RS6000...I have one taking up space here - for donation/trade...

by claudew＠sprint.ca

Hi With all this talk about RS6000 servers, I would like to say I have a 320H 7012 type that has almost gone to the dumpster in the last two major basement cleanings I have done. It was removed from service and brought here. I booted it several times with the old AIX on there and everything was working. Plan was to put Linux on there...but then i learned it's not available...I pulled the 2 SCSI drives from it and never re-installed them. It was working last time I re-started it (3 months ago) with a Wyse 60 connected to the great modu10 serial connector (had to build an adapter plug - thanks IBM) using the diag/boot floppy disks for it that I have... No keyboard...no monitor...MCA arch...80Megs Ram, floppy, Token Ring network card, something I was told was a Sabine accel. video card (?), scsi card. I have no use or space for this. I would like to give it away or maybe at least get something in exchange...I collect micros from the 197x-198x...current wish list includes : trs80 mod III, NExT, Atari 800 or CP/M systems or anything else interesting...I am NOT looking for $$$ for this...I don't have the time to bother seeling it on epay, I am not even signed up to sell or buy on epay... One hitch : I am in Montreal, Canada. So if you dont want the whole thing (29 pounds on my people scale) or I can always just ship some boards, or whatever...I you need more info or pics, just email...I am not too familliar with the R6000 machines... Thanks Claude claudew(a)sprint.ca

25 years, 9 months

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NEC APC available

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Contact the person below, not me. - John : ::: : ::: Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: pppmjs <pppmjs(a)yahoo.com> Subject: An Old Computer To: jfoust(a)threedee.com : : Hi there- I found your link thru a site on Computer museums. I have a functional NEC Advanced Personal Computer (APC) (1983) It runs with 2 - 8" floppies. Believe to have been built to run/assist by BridgePort CNC machines. Operating system is Dos 2.1 Have operating manuals & guides. (Got it to boot, but didn't get no further, as I'm not sure what some of the disks are.) I need to possibly get something out of this system...say $125-$150,or more if it's possibly a rare find(?), if in fact it's worth anything, I really don't know, but believe it would be. If your interested or know of someone that may be, please reply back. Thanks for your time Michael Salomaki pppmjs(a)yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

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Here's one for the DEC engineers

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Well, I've got to give a toast to the folks in DEC Engineering, it may be that they had to deal with Field Circus screwing things up, but I for one really appreciate that DEC used keyed connectors, and appropriate cables, and sturdy hardware. I'm also glad that whomever designed the TQK70 did so such that plugging it in backwards in the Q-bus does it no apparent harm. I reassembled a VAXServer3400 after cleaning it and got the dreaded "E" in the display, after careful diagnosis (with the power on!) I noticed the TQK70's chips were on the wrong side of the board! (Is there any good way other than lying on the floor on your side to insert things into a BA213?) Powered off, pulled board, crossed myself and re-inserted it correctly. Voila, system boots and tape works fine. Cheers! --Chuck

25 years, 9 months

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Lisa 2 Keyboard/Mouse substitute?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Does anyone know if I can substitute > a keyboard and mouse from an early Mac? > (the ones with the non-adb keyboards > and db9-connector mice). I don't mind > hacking the connectors, if someone can > give me the pinout info. As far as I > can tell, the lisa uses some sort of > mini-db9 for the mouse, and a 1/4" > headphone-jack for the keyboard (weird!) Mouse: yes Keyboard: no However... Somewhere out there, there's fairly complete info on the Lisa hardware. It should include details, if not on the keyboard itself, on the interface to the keyboard. From that, you might be able to modify a spare Mac keyboard to work until you can find a Lisa replacement. Worse case, you'll have to use a microcontroller to convert between the two interfaces, requiring some custom work on your part. -dq

25 years, 9 months

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A couple of Bondwell 2 questions

by whdawson＠mlynk.com

I bought this CP/M laptop on eBay a couple of weeks ago for $9.99, with another $13.70 for shipping and handling. The laptop is in great condition, as described, well packed, and arrived intact. The batteries are even OK and hold a decent charge. I've done this eBay thing long enough to be able to read between the lines and was fairly certain that it would not boot from the disk drive. If it was able to, it would have said so in the listing. Sometimes what is not said is as important as what is said. It is now running great. I found two problems, the first caused the second. The power connector for the floppy drive was on backwards. What this means is that the +12 volt and +5 volt power lines were swapped. The +5 applied to the +12 circuitry won't usually cause any damage, but the +12 on the +5 will and did. The floppy was unable to seek because there was no power to the head stepper motor because there was no power to the stepper motor controller IC. Q1 ( I think it is a small SCR, since its three legs are marked S, G and D) which switches/regulates power to the stepper IC seems inop. When I short the S and G leads, the controller IC gets +5V, the stepper motor works and the floppy drive functions. The Bondwell now will boot, format and copy disks. The only markings on Q1, TO-92'ish, are A854 (date code or 2SA854?) and S G D. I think this device is in the circuit to save power; perhaps when the floppy is not selected, the head stepper is left to float free. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. The floppy is an early 720K DSDD (even though the Bondwell is only SSDD) Epson SMD-180B. Question #1. Does anyone have schematics for this drive? Also, I tried to build a custom disk definition for the Bondwell 2 for 22disk v1.44. I used Anadisk to evaluate the Bondwell floppy format, and it says the floppies are single-sided, 18 sector, 256 byte sector size, and the interleave is 2 to 1, i.e. 0,9,1,10,2,11,etc. I made one freshly formatted floppy on the Bondwell and only put dump.asm and dump.com on it (I also sysgenned it and made it bootable). Using Anadisk, I can see the directory, and the 2-1 skew that Anadisk reports allows me to read dump.asm in its correct order. However, the disk definition that I built for 22disk doesn't work. I can read the directory and I can copy the files to DOS, but they appear as if the interleave is incorrect, since dump.asm is jumbled on 256 byte boundaries. The entire file _is_ present. I didn't have any more time last night to check and see just _how_ it is jumbled. Question #2. Does anyone have the disk definition for 22disk for the Bondwell 2? Bill

25 years, 9 months

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Lisa 2 Keyboard/Mouse substitute?

by CordaAJ＠nswc.navy.mil

I happened across a Lisa 2 (Model A6SB100) this past weekend...Seems to be in fair (restorable) shape. The nicads on the I/O board are corroded, but that's easy to fix. Unfortunately, the Keyboard and mouse are missing. Does anyone know if I can substitute a keyboard and mouse from an early Mac? (the ones with the non-adb keyboards and db9-connector mice). I don't mind hacking the connectors, if someone can give me the pinout info. As far as I can tell, the lisa uses some sort of mini-db9 for the mouse, and a 1/4" headphone-jack for the keyboard (weird!) If this isn't possible, I'd appreciate any hints as to where I might find a lisa keyboard/mouse (be nice now! :-) This critter also came with an Apple Profile (model A9M0005) external hard disk that seems to attach via a db-25 cable (to the lisa's parallel port?) I noticed that one of the pins on the lisa's parallel port connector(db-25 female)is blocked with epoxy (probably to prevent people from connecting a serial cable to it). Can I simply use a straight-through db25 cable (with the blocked pin removed) to connect the profile to the lisa, or did apple use some sort of proprietary wiring scheme? -Thanks! -al -acorda(a)1bigred.com

25 years, 9 months

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H-89....

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Gene, I was scanning some other stuff and found an ad for the H-89 in the Dec 1980 issue of Byte magazine. I scanned it and posted it at "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/h89.jpg" in case you want to see it. I have haven't edited it or changed the image size or anything so it's big. I also have a scan of the full page that it was on if you want it. It's at "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/1980byte/page 258.jpg". I'll scan the Heathkit catalog when I get a chance. Joe At 07:13 PM 10/27/00 -0700, you wrote: >> >putting all the manuals online as PDF files. Is there any interest in >> >this? All the searching I've done on the net for H-8/11/88/89 info has >> >turned up a pitiful lack of info. If you've got anything you'd like to >> >see on a dedicated Heathkit computer page, please let me know. >> >> >> Cool Gene. I have an old Heathkit catalog that lists the H-89. If you >> like, I'll scan it and you can add it to your website. >> >That would be great Joe! It would give me an idea of what was available >for the machine, and what parts & docs I have to chase down. :) > >g. > > >

25 years, 9 months

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An article on the ZX-81 kits still being sold in the US

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/07/2000 3:06:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vcf(a)siconic.com writes: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/13785.html Talk about shoddy journalism! The Z80A included in these kits is certainly *not* a "1 MHz" processor, and the kits -- like all ZX81s -- have only 1 KB RAM onboard, not 2 KB as stated in the article. Also, this piece claims that the kits were obtained from Timex when in fact they were not. They were sold to Zebra by Sinclair Research USA when Sinclair discontinued sales in the USA. > These guys are a bunch of clowns. They used to be selling these for > $29.95 until the eBay phenomenon hit. Then they jacked up the price to > $99.95. I guess they must be selling these at that price because they > haven't backed it down. Zebra raised the price incrementally, from $29.95 to $39.95 to $49.95, then a big jump to $99.95. The *big* increase occurred when Zebra sold a substantial portion of their inventory to Chris Cowley, head of Grok Developments (mentioned in the above article). Cowley has to sell the kits for over $100 US in order to cover the cost of the kits plus freight and import duties, plus his profit. So, Zebra just jacked up the US price to match. Price fixing, anyone? BTW, back in March I was on the phone with Stewart Newfeld, head of Zebra, and he mentioned some unusual high-res graphics boards that he had. We settled on quantity and price, and I sent my payment. Everything arrived except the HRG boards, but a note in the box stated that they would forward them "as soon as possible." To date they haven't delivered, won't return my e-mails or phone calls, and still owe me $60 worth of merchandise. > Is an unassembled ZX-81 kit worth $99.95 to me? Hell no. Especially since the kits sold by Zebra do not include the original Sinclair BASIC manual or original assembly instructions (instructions are included -- they're just not the original issue). Additionally, Zebra themselves sell these kits on Ebay for $50 - $70 all the time. Clowns, indeed. Glen 0/0

25 years, 9 months

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SBC80/10

by jjackson＠salsa-digital.com

Hey folks, Rummagng through my pile of stuff - came across this... SBC80/10 Single Board Computer (Intel) I have both the Hardware Reference Manual and the PCB that goes with it. (I believe that it's a Multi-Bus I card form factor.) It looks like it is complete... some missing chips on the parallel I/O (I think that these are just MC1488's or MC1489's), and some PROMs. It has a monitor PROM plugged in, so should come up as-is. I also have another board that I stored with this one... looks like a memory board... the part number on it is... 16Kx8/450 RAM Module. ------ Is there any interest in this? Regards, James Jackson

25 years, 9 months

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OpenVMS Hobbyist License Question

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

At 10:52 PM 10/27/00 -0400, you wrote: >I just went through this. I've been through it many times. :-) >The Montagar site has all you need but the docs that come with the cd are >dense and not very explanatory. Hah! This is an understatement. I was really only successful/comfortable when I got one of the ConDist sets and used those docs. >Here is what you need to do. {edited for brevity] Another way to say this is to give the general algorithm. If you can boot the media you will probably come up in standalone backup. The magic then is to type: $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY [src]VMSxxx.B/save_set [dst] Since I'm precluded from using HTML to express this a bit more clearly, allow me to elucidate on the variable parts: [src] and [dst] are device specifiers. Before you booted your VAX you had to do a 'show device' to see what devices it knew about, the src device is the CD-ROM (usually DKAxxx or DKBxxx on a VaxStation/Microvax, but will usually be DUAx or DUBx if you are booting from a MSCP type SCSI controller) If you're using tape then the device will be something like MUA0 or MKA0 etc. The filename VMSxxx.B changes only based on the version of VMS, so VMS 7.2 is VMS072.B whereas VMS 5.5 is VMS055.B. You should use the switch /VERIFY so that you know the disk is good before booting it. You must use the switch /IMAGE because you are copying over the complete disk (no formatting, fdisking, or anything else usually needed) You must use the switch /SAVE_SET to tell backup that you're restoring from a saveset. Once this command finishes you can now halt and boot from the [dst] drive and the first part of VMS will come up. >Don't bother with the registration dialogs at this point, just answer that >you don't want to right now. The dialogs did not work for me but the >command-line reg did just fine. This was true for me until I figured out what fields went with what. Note that in the PAK shown below: >$! Usage of this licenses consistutes agreement with all terms of this >Hobbyist $! License Agreement >$! >$ LICENSE REGISTER VAX-VMS - > /ACTIVITY=A - > /AUTHORIZATION=DECUS-USA-freeman-154786 - > /DATE=27-OCT-2001 - > /HARDWARE_ID=cz409027NS - > /ISSUER=DECUS - > /OPTIONS=(NO_SHARE) - > /PRODUCER=DEC - > /TERMINATION=27-OCT-2001 - > /UNITS=0 - > /CHECKSUM=1-QAGH-DECE-FPED-KMHI The date and termination date are the same. (Actually this is probably a valid PAK :-) This threw me off for a while. Note that you can use the layered products on _all_ your VAXen with the same PAKs so you don't need to get them more than once (and if you ask for them again you will get the same ones you got the first time.) Typically what I do at this point (registering PAKs) is to register the VAX-VMS PAK and the UCX PAK. Note that TCP-IP is on the Montagar disk. Once you log in as system you can then install TCP/IP using: @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTALL TCPIP_VAX050 [src]:[TCPIP_VAX050.KIT] And then run TCPIP$CONFIG once TCPIP is loaded. Now with that running and FTP enabled, you can ftp over the rest of the layered software PAKS (they are sent as a DCL script) and type: $ @LAYERED.COM (use whatever name you put it in as) And it will install licenses for everything. [important note: make sure you delete the UCX license out of the full set since if you don't you will get a "duplicate" and the script will stop.] >Nothing will happen, you will get a prompt. This is good and means that >the product is now registered. If it complains then you missed a character >or something. After registering a PAK manually you should type: $ LICEN LOAD VAX-VMS to insure it is loaded. Anyway, I've done this about a dozen times now so its getting to be fairly familiar :-) --Chuck

25 years, 9 months

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MULTICS Installation, Halifax

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> [Mythical PDP-10 emulator?] > > Mine's not mythical - It just doesn't work yet. Sorry, Daniel- the stress level's been up this week. Once it's working to your (initial?) satisfaction, how do you plan deployment and/or availability? -dq

25 years, 9 months

2
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KA650 in MicroVAX BA123?

by PeksaDO＠Cardiff.ac.uk

I have a MicroVAX II which has been upgraded to a MicroVAX 3. I say MicroVAX 3 because that is what is on the upgrade decal and the DEC instruction booklet refers to the upgrade as a Microvax 3. Are there MicroVAX III decals out there, is the MicroVAX 3 decal unusual, or are both common? Doug.

25 years, 9 months

2
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RS6000 memory boards

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:32:29 -0800 (PST) From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> Subject: Re: RS6000 memory boards Enrico Badella <enrico.badella(a)softstar.it> wrote: >> Yesterday I saved two IBM RS6000 server; one 7013/59H and one 7013/530H. ... >> should I just junk the whole things and just save the four SCSI disks? > Then Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> said: >That's what I would do. The old RS6K servers are quite tough to find support >for ... Keep the disks for something that can really use 'em. > >However, if you still want to take a whack at it, sometimes people are >selling equipment on comp.unix.aix. The prices can be quite confiscatory, >though. Whoa, there. Sitting in my office, still looking dark and forlorn, is a PowerStation 320 (Type 7012). A large part of its forlornness is due to its having had its mouse and keyboard "liberated" at some point in its life. The ugly part is it doesn't need just any PS/2 KB and 3-button mouse, but a special IBM one. (Thanks to Philip Belben <Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk> for this clue. Philip, I still have not had time to seriously attack this machine.) Enrico, I don't know that I can pay to ship them from Italy to San Antonio, Texas but if your machines include those and you can't find a European stockpile to add those to, please contact me. Please *don't* junk those parts! If the machines you are talking about contain MCA Ethernet cards, the same applies to them, and again I might be interested in trying to get them shipped to Texas. Cameron, thanks for the newsgroup pointer, it's in my read list now. Anyone else with spare RS6K keyboards and mice taking up some of their valuable storage space, I think I can help you. :-) - Mark PS my last messagee appeared twice. My apologies; I can't figure out how I did that. If it happens again, somebody please send a clue?

25 years, 9 months

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TK50 tapes for "free"

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I've got about 20 TK50 tapes that are available for no cost. The catch is that they are in Sunnyvale CA and if you can't come pick them up then you'll need to pay postage to your address. These tapes have been bulk erased and can be used in either the TK50 (95MB) or the TK70 (295MB) tape drive, the caveat is that if you initialize one on a TK50 drive, then the TK70 will read it but not write it, if you initialize it on the TK70 drive then the TK50 won't be able to read it. I refer you back to the archives to refresh your memory that magnetically the specs for CompacTape I and CompacTape II are identical. --Chuck

25 years, 9 months

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Lisa 2 Keyboard/Mouse substitute?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, AFIK there is no substitute for the Lisa keyboard. However I'm told that the mouse used on the early Macs will work on the Lisa. I think the plug on the Lisa mouse has some plastic pins that are missing on the Mac mouse and the plus has a slightly different shape. Joe At 04:33 PM 11/6/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I happened across a Lisa 2 (Model A6SB100) >this past weekend...Seems to be in fair >(restorable) shape. The nicads on the >I/O board are corroded, but that's easy >to fix. Unfortunately, the Keyboard >and mouse are missing. > >Does anyone know if I can substitute >a keyboard and mouse from an early Mac? >(the ones with the non-adb keyboards >and db9-connector mice). I don't mind >hacking the connectors, if someone can >give me the pinout info. As far as I >can tell, the lisa uses some sort of >mini-db9 for the mouse, and a 1/4" >headphone-jack for the keyboard (weird!) > >If this isn't possible, I'd appreciate >any hints as to where I might find a >lisa keyboard/mouse (be nice now! :-) > >This critter also came with an Apple Profile >(model A9M0005) external hard disk that >seems to attach via a db-25 cable (to >the lisa's parallel port?) I noticed >that one of the pins on the lisa's >parallel port connector(db-25 female)is >blocked with epoxy (probably to prevent >people from connecting a serial cable >to it). Can I simply use a straight-through >db25 cable (with the blocked pin removed) >to connect the profile to the lisa, or >did apple use some sort of proprietary >wiring scheme? > >-Thanks! > >-al >-acorda(a)1bigred.com > > >

25 years, 9 months

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Totaly OT: IBM eServer z900

by Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de

Just recently IBM anounced their new series of (real) mainframes. now called zServer(running zOS and zWhatever). They are supposed to be the follow up architecture of the /390 ISA and will add 64 Bit Software to the /390 world ... And here comes my problem: I can't imagine any way to enhance the /370 (/390) ISA to do such tricks at all without loosing compatibility. It would require a complete new 'mode', almost like Intel had with 16 vs 32 Bit on the 80386, Mode switching an tons of incompatibilities - it took almost 20 years to move the mainframe world from 24 to 31 Bit addressing (and 24 Bit mode is still required for some apps and modules) - and we are talking just about the valid bits of an address word (allwas 32 Bit since the 60s) - introducing new operations and data formats (or at least the usage of known but rarely supported double word size registers) is quite a different task. So what I'm searchin are informations about the new ISA. Any info is apreciated. And yes, I tried to ask IBM, (last attempt today in persona at their 'booth' at the SYSTEMS) but there is no info available. I know this is off topic, since the z900 isn't even for sale by now, but getting information is not only hard becaus IBM doen't offer it, but because the people who know what a /370 ISA is are vanishing .... so any help is apreciated. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe

25 years, 9 months

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Update:RE: FS Heathkit EC-1

by badger＠vbe.com

Thanks everyone who sent me offers and information on the computer. I think it will be destined for sale on eBay where I can let the market set the price..... the offers were so far ranging that I feel that it would be the best way to sell it and a search revealed three others that had sold there recently. I'll include a copy of email I sent to several who were interested in it's actual condition after I had a chance to look it over. I brought it home last night and checked it all over as mentioned below. I hope to have it placed on eBay this weekend unless I break down and sell it to a reasonable offer off the net or at a ham/computer fest I'm attending on Sunday. There is a pic of the computer at http://www.vbe.com/~badger/bc/ec1a.jpg Again..... thanks for your interest and all the information. de Mike Melland, W9WIS <copy> Last night I took the EC-1 and the other instruments I purchased at the surplus sale home. I cleaned up the EC-1 and checked the tubes, caps and all the circuits. I applied a little Caig Deoxit and with a bit of time and care and was able to free up all the potentiometers that were stiff or frozen. It appears to have been a factory built version that was sold to the college...... very nicely built and laid out. The cabinet has a few small scratches... easily touched up... no dings or dents. The rubber feet are still in place on the bottom. Inside, while quite dusty when I received it has been cleaned up and is very nice. Tubes and Caps and all wiring and pots check out fine. After checking things over it went onto my isolated variac and was slowly powered up..... lit up fine, adjusted B+ voltage.. was still right on the money. Used the manual to set it up and adjust the individual amp balance, all three ranges on each amp (100,10,1) balanced just fine. Everything seems to work and adjust properly at this time so I assume it's quite usable. The manual I have for it is an operation manual..... apparently there is a construction manual that would have come with it if it was a kit version as well. Also has three of those little clear plugin units with a cap and a precision resistor....

25 years, 9 months

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System/36 still sleepin' Suggestions?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 4, THETechnoid(a)home.com wrote: > I checked the line voltage on the outlet and found it right at 250-253vac > without a load. This circuit is rated at 30AMP, the machine's breaker is > rated at 20AMP, and the machine is supposed to pull a max 8amp on the line > making all things reasonable. > > So why no power-on? Nothing spins, no lights on the front-panel, nothing > but the first-stage of the power supply humming slightly. You mentioned safetey interlocks...Maybe there's a panel interlock that got jiggled during the move? Try removing and re-seating every outside panel that you can find. Have you tried connecting a console terminal to it yet? This may be way off (I don't know anything about S36 hardware) but an acquaintance of mine once beat his head against a wall for two days trying to power up a VAX 8700. As it turns out, you do this by typing a command on the console processor (a DEC Pro machine) which he hadn't connected yet. And...remember the "power-off" command in newer Sun OBP ROMs? A favorite joke around here is 'why can't I type "power-on" to turn it back on!!' ...but on newer Alpha machines (DS10, etc), you *CAN*. There's a PIC17C44 processor in there handling console operations that has its own little power supply. You can power-cycle the meat of the machine from a [potentially remote] console port. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 9 months

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EC-1 fiasco....

by badger＠vbe.com

Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:54:39 -0600 From:Michael Melland <badger(a)vbe.com> To: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > No, this is disingenuous at best. You really meant to say that none of the > offers matched what you saw someone get on Ebay and your greed took over. > Not surprisingly it is exceptionally rude to "offer something for sale" and > then to actually not sell it. Had you an ounce of integrity you would have > sold it to whomever sent you the "best offer." Chuck, Better read my original post again: > I have a Heathkit EC-1 Educational Analog Computer with original > manual I'd like to sell. The computer is in unknown functional > condition (I don't know if it works right or not) but it looks pretty > good. I'd guess I'd have to sell it as unworking. All the parts are > there but some of the knobs are "stiff". This EC-1 was in storage > since the 1970's ...... it was with some electronic test equipment I > purchased at a surplus sale at a college. > > If you have an idea of it's worth .... either to a collector or as a > parts unit please email me at badger(a)vbe.com What I asked for I got...... an estimate of its worth. I did not say that I was accepting bids.... they just came in.... If I had stated that I'd sell it to the high bidder I would have, but that's not what I asked for..... what I did receive is a number of very informative posts with value estimates and suggestions for places to offer it for sale..... eBay was the most suggested venue. I really don't care how it sells or if it sells..... it's just "surplus" to me. I'm not into collecting computers..... now if it were electronic test equipment or communications gear that's another story. >From my perspective I was asking for help in assaying the value of this piece I wanted to sell. I do appreciate the offers to purchase (most) and especially those persons that sent me information on the EC-1 and warned me that I might receive low ball offers from my post. Some were... and had I not received replies from several very helpful individuals I'd probably provided someone with real "steal" . I didn't send angry email to those who made an offer that some would (not I) perceive as trying to take advantage of my ignorance. In retrospect after looking at the title of my post it should have said "Value of EC-1 wanted"..... sorry if this was confusing. If you are still bitching about selling it to the one making the best offer..... go to eBay and bid along with those who may know it's value. At any rate the your generous offer of $100 was far from the highest I received. Mike Melland

25 years, 9 months

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Funny OPcodes

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

All of these puns concerning mental DECay made me think of a post I saw on COMP.SYS.TANDY last week. Excuse the length, but I thought some of you might find it amusing. > >This sounds like a variation on the Motorolla HCF (Halt & Catch Fire) >instruction legend. > >bill > Ah, yes. Here is the original document I downloaded from a BBS in the 80's.... * * * * * THE COCO RUMOR MILL IT HAS BEEN RUMORED THAT TANDY (MOTOROLA) IS WORKING ON A COCO III COMPUTER TO BE RELEASED SHORTLY. AT PRESENT THE ONLY ADVANCE INFORMATION AVAILABLE IS THAT A NEW MICROPROCESSOR WILL BE INCORPORATED INTO THE UNIT-- THE 6813! OUR RESEARCH STAFF HAS BEEN ABLE TO UNCOVER A LIST OF NEW OPCODES THAT DISTINGUISH THE 6813 AS A BREAKTHROUGH IN COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY. THE LIST IS PRESENTED HERE FOR YOUR INFORMATION. ABBA - PLAY SWEDISH ROCK ADGB - ADD GARBAGE BAD - BARK AT DOG BBL - BRANCH ON BURNED OUT LIGHT BAH - BRANCH AND HANG BFEI - BEG FOR EXPANSION INTERFACE BLI - BRANCH AND LOOP INFINITE BPB - BRANCH ON PROGRAM BUG BPO - BRANCH IF POWER OFF BPM - BEGIN PIRATE MODE BRN - BURN UP SAM CHIP CFP - CALL FOR PROGRAMMER CLD - TRY TO COOL DOWN SAM CHIP CMS - CATCH MOUSE CNP - CALL NATIONAL PARTS CPB - CREATE PROGRAM BUG CPM - CORRECT PROGRAM MANUAL CRN - CONVERT TO ROMAN NUMERALS CSD - CREATE STATIC DISCHARGE DAO - DIVIDE AND OVERFLOW DEVO - START NEW WAVE (SINE) EIP - ERASE IF PIRATED ERS - ERASE READ-ONLY STORAGE ETOY - EMULATE ZX-81 HFA - HIRE FROM ATARI HCF - HALT AND CATCH FIRE HFC - HIDE FROM CHILDREN HFP - HIDE FROM PINTO HIC - HELP INTEL CHIP IAD - ILLOGICAL AND IBM - INTERUPT BAD MNEMONICS IOR - ILLOGICAL OR JOF - JUMP ON FLOOR JOM - JUMP ON MOTOROLA JOT - JUMP OFF TABLE JTZ - JUMP TO ZAXXON PROGRAM KAL - FLY OVER RUSSIA MDB - MULTIPLY AND DROP BITS MWK - MULTIPLY WORK NOPE - REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING OCD - OPEN COMMODE-DOOR PAS - PRINT AND SMEAR PIP - PULVERIZE INTERFACE PERIPHERAL PSD - PERFORM SAFETY DANCE RBT - READ AND BREAK TAPE REST - RELAX FOR 12 CYCLES RPM - READ PROGRAMMER'S MIND RRT - RECORD AND RIP TAPE RTR - REFUSE TO RUN RTM - RETURN TO MOTOROLA RTT - RETURN TO TANDY RSD - READ AND SCRAMBLE DATA RWD - REWIND DISK SINK - SINK INTO I.C. SOCKET SRZ - SUBTRACT AND RESET TO ZERO SSD - SEEK AND SCRATCH DISK STD - STOP TURNING DISK STI - SELL T.I. STOCK TLK - START SPEECH SYNTHESIS TPR - TEAR PAPER TRS - TRASH ('TRISS') PROGRAM WED - WRITE AND ERASE DATA WID - WRITE INVALID DATA WOJ - WEAR OUT JOYSTICK XBRA - GOTO ZOO XIO - EXECUTE INVALID OP CODE XOR - EXECUTE OPERATOR XPR - EXECUTE PROGRAMMER BESIDES HAVING THE ABOVE USER FRIENDLY OPCODES THE 6813 WILL ALSO HAVE 161 EASY TO REMEMBER ADDRESSING MODES! P.S. THERE IS NO WORD FROM TANDY AS TO WHEN WE MIGHT EXPECT THESE IMPROVEMENTS (THEYARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT A 6809 IS!). PERHAPS IN THE NEXT COMPUTER CATALOGUE. -- Power Computing PowerCurve, 400mhz G3, Mac OS 9.0.4 Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

25 years, 9 months

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DEC wishlist (Looking for)

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I'm on the lookout for a couple of VAX items: VAX 4000/90 (preferred) or a VAX 4000/60 KA68x or a KA69x CPU to round out the "house of VAX" I've got a couple of VAXes I could trade if someone was looking to round out their VAX collection: MicroVAX II (BA23 or BA123 cabinet) VAXStation 3100/M76 in a BA42 type cabinet Various vaxish Q-bus boards. PDP-11/03 board set. (KDF11, DRJ11, etc) I'm always interested in things for PDP-8's, but high on my wishlist are the cable for an RK8E to the RK05, a couple of RK05 packs (one with OS/8 on it would be dandy :-) and those pesky top connectors that connect core stacks, CPUs, etc. In the PDP-11 space anything to add mass storage to my PDP-11/34 like an RK11-D or RL11 interface. Also available for trading: a CompuPro Z80 CPU (S100) manual and perhaps the "Inside CP/M" and Garetz S-100 bus books ae well. --Chuck

25 years, 9 months

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Lisa mystery switch

by Marion.Bates＠dartmouth.edu

--- Seth wrote: On Sat, Nov 04, 2000 at 02:09:27PM -0500, Marion Bates wrote: > Any idea about the Mystery Switch? This is the "Magic / More Magic" switch. Leave the switch in the "More Magic" position. --- end of quote --- LOL. It did remind me of that story. :) If there's anyone on this list who doesn't know that tale, ask for a retelling. It's good. -- MB

25 years, 9 months

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The perfect description

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Tony Duell wrote: >'A few cards short of a full DEC' It doesn't get any better than that. That's the one I was trying to think of. Well said! - Mark

25 years, 9 months

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Vax 8350 offered to me -- worth getting it?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> wrote: > > I am being offered this computer. > > I used to have an 8250. The 8350 is (TMK) a dual CPU 8250. Right. I have an 8300, dual 8200 CPUs. > It's a VAXBI bus system and it's a lot of fun to play with. It will require > at least two 30A 110v circuits to run it. My 8300 is on one 30A Hubbel twist-n-loc I installed in my basement. It powers the CPU, a single RA81 and an MBA ESDI-to-SDI box (2.1Gb). I always power on the RA81 *first*, then let it settle, before firing up the other boxes (due to the surge current of the RA81 HDA). Fun little box. Watch out for the KDB50 - I never met one that wasn't finiky. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

25 years, 9 months

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KIM-1, SYM-1 or AIM-65 - anyone selling?

by philpem＠btinternet.com

Hi, I'm interested in getting a MOS Technologies KIM-1, Synertek SYM-1 or a Rockwell AIM-65. Has anyone got one for sale (preferably in the UK)? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/

25 years, 9 months

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