- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: THETechnoid(a)home.com <THETechnoid(a)home.com> >My point is that OS/2 is everything Microsoft has been saying both Win9x >and NT are combined plus a lot (like a good, stable design). It is easier >to use than any other operating system short of 9x and has a FAR better >GUI than Windows or anything else at all. Well, I've looked at only one version OS/2 V3 with all the goodies as of when it came out. Ran ok and all but apps for it were a bit thin. I plan to play more with it once I get it running TCP/IP and a eithernic. Allison

25 years, 7 months

2
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Nuke Richmond

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Whew...sorry Richard, there's just so much flame bait in here I'm just going to pretend I didn't read it. And I'm not even a Linux fanatic. -Dave McGuire On January 12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > All these complaints about how things are won't fix a thing! > > If the LINUX community were interested in providing a service, that is, a > service for anyone other than themselves, they'd have done the up-to-now > missing 90% of the work and cleaned up and documented their software. > Instead, you have a terrible mess of code with comments that hve been > irrelevant and incorrect for the last 25 revisions, yet nobody's been > willing to delete them. Generally, design and coding is about 2% of the > job, debugging is another 3%, cleanup is about 5% and thorough and accurate > documentation is about 90. > > >From what I've seen so far, the LINUX community, though well-intentioned, > has done little to provide tools useable by the masses. > > Instead of lighting that "one candle" they'd rather personalize their > frustration, resulting, BTW, from their own lack of application effort, > targeting Bill Gates, whose policies are really no different from those of > any corporate leader. They're supposed to outdo the competition, trip them > up, confound their efforts to acquire market share, and just generally try > to do them in. Gates and Co have done well. What's more, for every LINUX > user who's even remotely satisfied with what he has, there are thousands of > Windows-users out there who love their OS. One difference, however, is that > they (the Windows users) don't have to spend their lives stroking the OS > just to keep it alive. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Tinker" <jtinker(a)coin.org> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:25 AM > Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > > > > "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > > > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > > > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far > to > > > much work still to make it fit for the masses. > > > > > > Wim > > > > Don't forget the opportunity lost due to M$ predations. Gates didn't > invent > > software. He pulled the rug out from under a lot of good effort, using > > everyone else's work, but trying to protect his own. He poked his finger > in > > the eye of standards wherever possible. Standard layers will be the > foundation > > of future system elaboration. The fundamental contradiction Gates had to > get > > around, was that between "information age" and "proprietory software". It > is > > the "rising tide lifts all boats" problem. What is the value of wealth, > unless > > you are richer than the next guy? If everybody is rich, who will pick up > the > > garbage? When people started passing around copies of his BASIC, Gates > > realized the problem, and the solution. > > > > -- John Tinker > > > > > >

25 years, 7 months

5
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DOS Jumper

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Back in the mid to later 80s when one of the vendors was selling PCs without MSdos they were forced by MS to make the system so it could not run dos. I think it was running SCO unix or Novell. I'm fuzzy on the details as during that time frame PCs, DOS and their ilk were not on my radar. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:49 PM Subject: DOS Jumper > > >ajp166 wrote: >> >> Those that don't remember the PC cloes with he "DOS jumper" would argue >> that Billy was a good boy. Some of us remember! > >I don't recall a "DOS jumper", at least by that name. What is it? >

25 years, 7 months

2
1
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Nuke Redmond!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > >That's what we pay these senior decision-makers for, folks. They try to >figure out how to get the other guy out of the way. They try to find legal >ways to slit his proverbial, if not literal, throat. Messrs Gates would nto know ethics if they bit him on the arse. As to legal he {microsoft} would try to suborne legality where possible and did every chance. Those that don't remember the PC cloes with he "DOS jumper" would argue that Billy was a good boy. Some of us remember! Allison

25 years, 7 months

4
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Nuke Richmond

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> > >You meant this the other way around, didn't you? I have to spend several >frustrating minutes each week "stroking" Win98 to keep it alive (i.e. Well, disperse the frelling defective app! W98(hopefully 2nd edition or ME) in the work environment has proven acceptable and solid once the buggy apps were booted. We even run office97 on it reliabily. Oh, the worst offender IEV5! For the 98 users find 98LITE it can help get the bugs out. >server, file server, and firewall. All I do on my Win98 box is surf the >web, listen to Napster, and type documents, and it can't even handle THAT >without tripping over itself. As if any of those are trivial tasks. Napster is not simple nor small. As to your text problem, I'll bet your using one of the lightweight word processors, lightweight these days is an install file or 9-10 megabytes. Maybe the worst offendor and virus programming language WORD and it's VisualBasic. Why not surf the net with linux? Avoid the OS pain then. >Windows is like a retarded child. Now that's offensive, to the learning handicapped that is. I'd have compared Windows to Brussel Sprouts that were improperly cooked. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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Ease of Use (was Re: Nuke Richmond)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> >Finally, whine all you want about Windows it was was the ram rod of windows >that made it economically practical to build 100 million computers exactly >the same. Linux wouldn't exist if it still cost $10,000 to get a "home" >computer that was powerful enough to run it. > >--Chuck My $0.02 is: -That the OS if stable it's meaningless whos the maker. -The applications that support it are everything. -Applications that suppost common standard for text, images, datatypes and related types will dominate. That's the OS that wins... Users run apps, everyone else argues about the OS. Now with that said. I hate MS, I run NT4/WS with minimal MS apps. NT4 is pretty decent and plenty stable. I dont run Office9x or Off2k as it's buggy. Like every OS I've used, a good OS can be compromized by bad apps and well behaved apps will make the weakest OS look good. In the end a Robust OS makes poorly written and misbehaving apps more tolerable though still unacceptable. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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Nuke Richmond

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

-----Original Message----- > Applications are coming. A few are already here. It's taking a >while. How long has the Microsoft world had to develop its >suite of applications? > > -Dave McGuire One big difference, everyone knows what apps are wanted and needed. The rest of the work is simply coding. The Unix like users are about to get a log awaited bonanza for the log standing GUI enviornment. And the answer still is who cares what OS... so long as it works and the APPLICATIONS do what is asked. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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Nuke Richmond

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:12:29 -0800 (PST) Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> writes: > > Windows is like a retarded child. I always though of it as more like an idiot savant: You're amazed how something *that* brain-damaged can actually (sometimes) deliver a passable performance. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 7 months

1
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Nuke Richmond

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On January 12, W.B.(Wim) Hofman wrote: > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to > much work still to make it fit for the masses. I dunno, man. I'm a NetBSD person myself, and not a Linux fanatic, but I installed DeadRat 6.2 on a machine a few days ago...it was quick and painless, bordering on trivial. Problem is, though...It was easier for me because it was going into an existing network, so all I had to do was assign it an IP address and be done with it. The average housewife will have to set up PPP, which adds quite a bit of work. In my opinion, based on this latest installation...if someone can figure out how to build a PPP setup system that's generic enough to be built into the regular installer, then installing Linux (well, RedHat Linux specifically, it's the only distribution I've used recently [except Storm Linux, which I really liked]) really will be as easy and pedestrian as WinDoze. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 7 months

6
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Unknown 8" floppy drive

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I came across the following 8" floppy disk drive in a standalone enclosure. labelled Reformater Conversion system F09 Microtech Exports It has a single cable connector on the back. Any information would be appreciated. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 7 months

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NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A

by foo＠siconic.com

I just picked up an NEC Multisync Color Monitor model JC-1401P3A at a thrift store today for $8. It has one DA-9 connector on the back, plus a few switches for selecting RGB or color depth (I guess?), plus a digital/analog switch. I didn't have a chance to test it other than to turn it on and verify that it had a raster. I figured for $8 I couldn't go too terribly wrong. Is this a good all around display for use with different machines? It doesn't have any composite input however. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 7 months

6
10
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Amstrad PC1640HD20

by lgwalker＠look.ca

Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the K-B is proprietory however. Anyone with a spare or a work-around for this beast ? Thanks larry Reply to: lgwalker(a)look.ca

25 years, 7 months

8
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Nuke Richmond

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On January 12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > problem is ... you STILL have to deal with the OS. Moreover, there are few You do? Hmm. That's news to me. Unless "dealing with the OS" means "not reinstalling the OS every time some application blows up". > "nice-n-easy" applications for doing what's considered "useful work" in most > environments. What's more, the general trend in the Non-commercial > (GNU/LINUX/... ) environment seems to be toward "good enough" and not toward > getting it right. Applications are coming. A few are already here. It's taking a while. How long has the Microsoft world had to develop its suite of applications? -Dave McGuire

25 years, 7 months

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RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40

by truthanl＠oclc.org

Pat, Thats where I'm at. Thanks for the confirmation. I have the high density SCSI pigtail that connects to the IBM badged Tadpole SCSI Floppy. I also have an IBM 7210 010, CDROM drive which is SCSI, but has the big D50 SCSI connectors. So the question is: With the right "adapter cable" from high density SCSI to D50 cable connect, will the N40 identify and use the IBM 7210 010? I really do appreciate your best efforts so far. I saw the release note suggesting that this 3.2.5 was cut back to fit in the laptop environment. I Have 32 M Ram an an 810MByte Hard drive. Screen support, scaling, and graphics character sets seem to be some of the Unit Specific features of this model. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Pat Barron [mailto:pat@transarc.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:38 AM To: Truthan,Larry Cc: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Truthan,Larry wrote: > The "66" entry is invalidated in the 10 element diagnostic menu and the sub > menues under each element. The initial sevice selection is "language > select"). I havent tried "66" at the language select. On the first pass, I > am not making headway with your suggestion. I poked around and found a document that might help you: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RS/6000 N40 Laptop * Setting the System to Service Mode: 1. Press the key sequence [Pause][R] to reset the N40 (or power it off). 2. Then interrupt with [Pause][K] key sequence as soon as the IBM logo appears. 3. After several seconds, a language selection menu will appear; select appropriate language. 4. Then press 99 to go to the main menu 5. Select #7 (Change Soft-Keyswitch Setting). 6. Select #3 (Service). 7. Then press 99 to go to the main menu. 8. Select #10 to start the boot off the CD. * Limitations: > The 7007-N40 is supported by a special N40 version of AIX 3.2.5. The 7007-N40 is NOT supported at AIX V4. > The support for the 7007-N40 and N40 AIX 3.2.5 has been withdrawn, thus questions are answered on a best effort basis. * Information > Software maintenance on this system can be done by booting off the AIX 3.2.5 for N40 cdrom. To do this, attach the cdrom drive to the SCSI bus. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You already knew most of this, but I'm sending it along in case it might help. --Pat.

25 years, 7 months

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Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal?

by kevan＠heydon.org

I have one that is surplus to requirements. It's located in Cambridge, and free to a good home if anybody is interested in it. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/

25 years, 7 months

3
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RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40

by truthanl＠oclc.org

Well Pat, The "66" entry is invalidated in the 10 element diagnostic menu and the sub menues under each element. The initial sevice selection is "language select"). I havent tried "66" at the language select. On the first pass, I am not making headway with your suggestion. I appreciate your experience, and your willingness to seek the collaboration of others, who may recall the process. The spiral bound AIX 3.2.5 release notes speak of restoring the factory build by connecting the N40 ethernet AUI port to a Host, and mounting the N40 3.2 AIX CD on a host based cdrom volume. I assume the host must be another AIX machine(?) (Or can it be on an FTP server?) The release notes speak of command line "mounting" the cdrom volume over the link -not running an FTP client session on the N40. SO far I've not connected the ethernet AUI port to another machine. I was thinking of using the service diagnostic ethernet test menu to configure the IP addresses of the source and destination machines. Just for the sake of connecting the N40 back to a Win98 PC and "Pinging" the remote PC. Then perhaps I can find an i386 based version of AIX to convert the PC to an AIX host, to harbor the N40's 3.2.5 AIX CDROM. Then, proceed with that learning environment. ANY free or cheap sources for early i386 AIX? I gather that IBM has dropped support for the N40, 3.2 AIX, and even some later versions of AIX. I am simply trying to make myself a small learning environment. From what I've seen this is a 6.9 pound network workstation. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Pat Barron [mailto:pat@transarc.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 6:10 PM To: Truthan,Larry Subject: Re: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 Booting in Service Mode will bring up a menu of diagnostics and service aids. There is an undocumented, "invisible" choice on that menu, which I *think* is "66" (each choice is numbered, and number 66 should be the "hidden" option), which will dump you directly to a shell prompt. Now, however, you *may* have some challenges ahead before you can reset the root password. Depending on how the system actually gets you into Service Mode, you may find that the root volume group is not varied on, and that none of the filesystems are mounted. At the shell prompt, try typing the following commands: # mountall # ls If "ls" is found and produces output, then you are set - use the "ed" editor to edit /etc/security/passwd, and remove the "password =" line >from root's entry in the file. This will clear root's password. You can then reboot the machine in Normal Mode, log in as root with no password, and then set the password in the usual way. If "ls" is not found, or if the output doesn't look like there are enough files there, then the root filesystem isn't there. Do "echo /*", "echo /bin/*", "echo /sbin/*", etc, to give you an idea of what's available. In that case, you'll need to go through a sequence similar to the following to get into the filesystem (note that it's been a *long* time since I've done this, and this isn't guaranteed to be even remotely correct, and which may screw up your Object Data Manager if it goes wrong, so beware....): # importvg hdisk0 # varyonvg rootvg # mount /dev/hd4 /mnt # cd /mnt/etc/security And then work on the "passwd" file with whatever tools you can use.... If this doesn't help, let me know, and I can probably find some other folks around here who might remember..... --Pat.

25 years, 7 months

2
2
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Pin-outs for VT220

by hsappleton＠sprintmail.com

Hi can someone email me or point me to somewhere I can get this information: Pinouts for VT220 ===================================================================== PH: 302-798-1930 Fax: 302-798-0243 Mobile: 302-983-4293

25 years, 7 months

1
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Nuke Redmond!

by mbg＠world.std.com

>A while back, someone in Microsoft leaked a document to the net from >inside Microsoft, detailing ways in which they planned to deal with >this "problem." How many here ever saw this? I saw it... there was (is?) a web site with pointers to it... but I don't know if I have a bookmark for it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 7 months

4
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Info on DEC Rescue Result

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I just got word on what happened to the VAX-11/750 and LSI-11/23 that I posted about last week. A teacher at one of the Portland High Schools took the whole lot. I've no idea what use they'll be put to, but hopefully they'll survive and prosper. Anyway I figure others besides myself might be wondering, especially with the threat of the scrapper hanging over their heads. Zane

25 years, 7 months

1
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IMPs

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Okay, I'm watching the History Channel's treatment of how the internet came to be and I have to wonder if any of BBN's IMPs are still around. Those have to be *bigtime* collector's items. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! -----------------------------------------------------------------------

25 years, 7 months

4
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FW: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40

by truthanl＠oclc.org

I found an installed rom based diagnostic and ran through some non-invasive tests. One of the rom based tests lets you set up both the portables IP address and a host machines IP address and then "Ping" Between the two. Also on this diagnostic ping page they call out by "number" the "boot" device, which with no link connected, defaults to "NONE". Yet there is another maintenance screen where you can select the AUI ethernet port as the "Boot Device". If you set the ethernet port as the boot device, and then comeback to this screen, I wonder whether you just ping, or initiate a boot? Obviusly I don't want to kill it until I understand how to establish a "link" to revive it. I think I have all the tools, I just hope the AIX CD-ROM can be loaded from a Non-AIX based server host- Perhaps just a PC with an X windows session, or FTP HOST running. Plinking away. Sincerely Larry Truthan

25 years, 7 months

3
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RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40

by truthanl＠oclc.org

Greeting Listers - I have been lurking as a Digest Subscriber. Recently I had this IBM Risc/6000 7007 PowerPortable N40 fall in my lap. On It is AIX 3.2.5.. My problem is that I am staring at a Console Login prompt and know zilch about AIX. I do not know the root password. So this system is useless until I find the exploits to circumvent the system entry, or at least learn enough to to build a user acct.. This portable has a 1.2Gig Drive. 64M in SIMM. No diskette drive but PCMCIA slot as well as several of the cables and and AUi port in the back to network the beast I have the Risc Sytem/6000 N40 notebook workstation users guide and have started to read through it. This system came with the AIX 3.2.5 CD - but has no CDROM drive so I believe I have to network it to something so I can restore the System? The user guide mentions a Pause+R keysequence to get the box to toggle between normal and "service" modes, emulation a physical sw on rack mounted RS6000's Can ANYONE here point me to an Exploit to circumvent root password? The user guide tells me how to set it for the first time. The system had been turned off long enough to forget the time, month and Year etc, -- but it kept the root password on file. Is there something I can do from the service mode? Sincerely Larry Truthan

25 years, 7 months

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Centronics interface : Falling edge of stb/ works fine

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5742 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010111/dcf75c8f/at…

25 years, 7 months

1
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Core memory for sale

by william.webb＠juno.com

I've got some single core frames 64x64; they look almost identical to the one in the top photo at: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/coremem.htm except the PC board is tan (bakelite?) instead of translucent fiberglas like the one in the photo. $35 while they last. Also have one 4K memory module (9 frames in mount with PC boards top and bottom) make offer. william.webb(a)juno.com williamwebb(a)whiteice.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 7 months

1
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Nuke Redmond!

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> And there is that "what does GNU stand for?" question that > keeps me up at nights. GNU is a self-referential acronym; it means " GNU's Not Unix". Regards, -dq

25 years, 7 months

1
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a little TI

by dogas＠bellsouth.net

Hi gang and Happy New Year, It's great when you can rummage in one of your own piles and find something new... (Thanks Alzheimer's) Where'd that come from... ;) Anyway. I found a TI TM990/101MA card that's about 11x6 inches and can be seen at: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/ti01.jpg I guess this came out of a 990 mini but it looks like everything is there to use it as a sbc. It's got jumpers for terminal/modem,bank,ram,eprom select and a few more. Google and dogpile didn't turn up anything and I'm looking for the pin specs for the connector edges, power requirements and any other info anyone might have. Also, while on the subject.... I have an extra TI TM990/U89 that I'd like to trade for a TI TM990/189 with someone in a complimentary position. Email me off list if interested. Cheers - Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net

25 years, 7 months

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Getting a DG MV2000. What do I need?

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

Hi folks, I'm back on the list after 3 years of absence. I'm getting a DG MV2000 machine. It is apparently working. I would like to know what additional stuff do I need to get a 100% working system. The guy selling it is talking about floppy drives and terminals. Should I get at least one terminal and the drives? Thanks. Ben

25 years, 7 months

2
1
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"Real" emulation...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

-----Original Message----- From: Jim Battle <frustum(a)pacbell.net> >For instance, the first version of the emulator would convert each >windows keystroke into an emulated "strobe" of a keystroke register. >But then my first user noted a discrepancy in a program he tried. > >After thinking about it a little bit, we realized that the difference was >because the real Sol generates an approximately 6 us strobe when >a key is hit, asynchronously setting a "key ready" flop. If the processor >polls this register, the flop gets cleared, but if it polls it before the >6 us strobe is finished, then reading it doesn't clear the flop since >the async strobe has priority. Thus, one keystroke can appear twice >in these circumstances. This is an oddity but remember the 8080 is 2mhz (5us for an INP insturction) so this only can occur if the buffer read should occur within 6us of the status read. Typically the code is something like this: keywait: INP status ani keyflag JNZ keywait ; back to top may be a JZ INP keydata ... The delay from the first input to the second is 10+7+7 (24 cycles or 12uS) if the J(n)Z is not taken and much more if it is so the race condidtion it typically not a problem. It could be if someone was reading keystokes on the fly something bad can occur but not reading the key pressed status first is bad programming. After looking at the drawing It appears the Key ready goes to a JK flop /K input and is not async as the data (strobe) is loaded on the falling edge of Phase2 clock. So the behavour observed is unlikely and the read/clear has precedence. While Phase2 occurs once every ~500ns it is possible to clear and reset making the key buffer hold what amounts to bounce (read twice). Also the Osc used for the 3uS clock in the keyboard is a TTL RC thing that likely has a +-25% error (times two as it's divided by 2) adding to the already long strobe. In the end it would take a pathological programming case to make that keyboard behavour show. >One thing I'm planning on adding is intermittent disk errors -- the reason >is that I want to eventually rewrite my CP/M BIOS and I would >rather test it on the emulator. Without failure simulation, then too >much of the BIOS would go untested. The assumption is the bios has error retry, many early bios did not. You got an error and the system you give you retry or ignore both usually fatal if bad data was read. Some of the early 8251 serial (UART) devices had a timing thing that could cause the reverse action. Never assume all devices are infinitely fast compared to the cpu. >Now for an example of behavior I'm not going to bother with. >The Sol keyboard has infinite key rollover. On my PC, either the >keyboard or the driver stops giving KEYDOWN messages after >about four keys are down. Perhaps there is some way to get that >extra info, but I'm not going to bother. I don't see any reason to >emulate that extra behavior, so it won't go in. No it didn't. The encoder may have had Nkey rollover but it was anything but infinite. There was at best one byte of buffereing. If you read the buffer fast enough you can stay mostly ahead of it but most software of the time didn't buffer what it got so the last key read was it. Allison

25 years, 7 months

2
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Nuke Redmond!

by frustum＠pacbell.net

At 07:10 PM 1/10/01 -0500, THETechnoid wrote: >I'm running and have been running OS/2 since I got my first clone PC in >1992. Never did Windows but for servicing it for others. I just bought >EcomStation, the latest version of the OS/2 operating system from Serenity >Systems. Surely you must see the contradiction is having such an extreme position on Microsoft and using an OS that was originally written by the same company. I'm sure it has evolved quite a bit since MS gave up control of it to IBM in 1990, but if you take out the OS/2 box that you were using in 1992 I'll bet you can still smell Bill's greasy fingers on it. No, to be really clean, you should be using a different OS. Yes, something more unix. Ignore these johnnies come lately, go to the true innovator, the first unix on a PC: run Xenix. Damn. Microsoft did that one too. Here's a link with a pretty extensive timeline of MS OS developments: http://www.powerload.fsnet.co.uk/timeline.htm ----- Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net

25 years, 7 months

1
0
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Tek 2230 'scope check-out

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On January 10, Mike Ford wrote: > >Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel > >digital storage oscilloscope. > > > >I think I'd like to check it checked out by a repair > >service to confirm whether all its functions are working or not. > > Why? I am guessing you will be out $50 to $100, and thats assuming its fine > and needs no "adjustment". > > I would just use it, wouldn't most problems be fairly obvious? This is a good point, especially with a DSO. Except for the analog stuff in the very front-end...isolation, maybe a preamp, and some attenuator hardware...the only things that I can think of in most simpler DSOs that might require adjustment would be the time base and the sweep alignment & linearity stuff. Tek DSOs are pretty solid; I'd bet that, if it's basically functional, it's in good shape. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 7 months

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Apple external SCSI drives

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > > > OK, here is a very elementary question that has always > > stumped me. Is there any difference between an external > > SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard > > drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other > > computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after > > formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? > > The first alternative works very well indeed. The second won't, though. > Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC > Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. Another Apple > peculiarity would be its lack of support for remote start in > SCSI, so the hard drives will need to jumpered for automatic start on > power, but this won't affect other systems. Non-Apple drives work quite well with Macs; however, while your observation about the use of Apple's HD SC Utility is correct, all non-Apple SCSI drives sold *FOR* the Mac come with their own SCSI setup utility. For a SCSI drive *NOT* sold _for_ a Mac, you'd need a third-party toolkit like FWB' Hard Disk Tools (or whatever it's called). I've used it to add IBM and DEC SCSI drives to a Mac. regards, -dq

25 years, 7 months

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Amstrad PC1640HD20

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 10, 16:09, Lawrence Walker wrote: > One of my ST mouses (mice ?) has a simple switch to change it > to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick with DE9 and > DB15 connectors and a switch to change between Apple IIe and > PC. There was a box from Practical Peripherals called Mouse- > Master to switch between STs and Amigas. Seems like it shouldn't > be too difficult to make an all-purpose connection box for different > platforms. I also have a 4+4-input 1+1 output ABCD box, to use a > single mouse and K-B with multiple systems, that are readily > available, which would simplify the project. Any "gotcha's" in this > scenario ? The obvious one is the protocol. Or rather protocols, since there are so many. PS/2, PC serial, SGI serial, etc are all different. However, if you're talking about basic quadrature mice that simply output X, X', Y, and Y' pulses, your idea should work. Add a PIC and some software and you could handle the other types, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 7 months

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Solbourne Sun workalike for free

by MTPro＠aol.com

Hello, here is someone looking to get rid of some stuff! Please respond directly to him. Best, David David Greelish Publisher Classic Computing Press www.classiccomputing.com From: scott(a)aptest.com (D. Scott Secor) I was curious whether you might know of a deserving organization that would want a Solbourne model 6/500 (Sun workalike) dual processor server in roll-around cabinet. Processor boards were checked by Grumman two years ago after system was taken out of service. Original cost in early 1990's was over $60K. Regards, Scott Secor secor(a)mn.rr.com y2k(a)uswest.net

25 years, 7 months

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"Real" emulation...

by jpl15＠panix.com

While mulling over some ideas for software music synthesiser programs [I just bought a copy of Reaktor - a software synth/sampler construction kit of amazing complexity] I started wondering just how close to 'real' an emulator ought to be. For example, the MiniMoog emulator has a replica of the add-on A-400 oscillator, used to tune your Moog back up as it drifted off pitch, which they all did more or less constantly. The documentation mentions retaining this feature even though the emulation no longer drifts. But: why not? Shouldn't it drift, actually? So I ask from a "purist's purist" view... shouldn't an emulator contain "failure modes" common to the machine emulated? And if it "breaks", then the poor "operator" is afforded the opportunity to diagnose and then (hopefully) "fix" the problem. My experience with the various PDP-11 systems I owned was like this. I spent a *lot* of time doctoring the hardware. The same thought could be applied to a software Moog Modular synthesiser system. If a module 'breaks', you have to open up the code, find the 'defective' module and 'fix' it. One could continue this thought right down to having models of components, a la SPICE and the other design modelling software. Each component or module would then have a live/die algorithm associated with it. Imagine how thrilled Tony Duell would be with a PERQ emulator that exhibited random 'hardware' failure modes (based on maintenance histories) that then needed to be repaired at the 'component' level. Running, of couse, on a palmtop. Hopefully one could as well disable the "real-world hardware failure" mode, in the case of wanting to just do something trivial, like program the thing. Silly questions, but also maybe valid.... Cheerz John

25 years, 7 months

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Apple external SCSI drives

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > The first alternative works very well indeed. The second won't, though. > > > Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC > > > Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. Another Apple > > > peculiarity would be its lack of support for remote start in > > > SCSI, so the hard drives will need to jumpered for automatic start on > > > power, but this won't affect other systems. > > > > Non-Apple drives work quite well with Macs; however, while your > > observation about the use of Apple's HD SC Utility is correct, > > all non-Apple SCSI drives sold *FOR* the Mac come with their > > own SCSI setup utility. > > Granted, I forgot to mention that there are other SCSI setup utilities, > but why in the world would one need to buy a drive /for/ a particular > brand of computer? A hard drive is a hard drive is a hard drive. Because the computer manufacturer's engineers, in their infinite wisdom, decided their computer needed feature <X>... For Pr1me minis, hard drives have to be able to support a sector size of 2080 bytes, instead of or in addition to the usual 512-byte sector support. With Apple, their *first* hard drive (a non-SCSI unit) had things called disk tags that required drives that support a sector size of 576 bytes (from memory, probably wrong). I'm not defending the practice; while I assumed your remark was rhetorical, not everyone in the audience may be as well-informed as we are. > > For a SCSI drive *NOT* sold _for_ a Mac, you'd need a third-party > > toolkit like FWB' Hard Disk Tools (or whatever it's called). I've > > used it to add IBM and DEC SCSI drives to a Mac. > > I've got an Apple-edition IBM drive in a IIcx here. =) I've got one of those, too, and it looks *just* like the non-Apple edition. Scary... -dq

25 years, 7 months

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Laser 128 expansion port

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/10/01 2:12:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, THETechnoid(a)home.com writes: << A recent message mentioned that the Laser 128 has an expansion port which can use Apple II cards. Is this accurate? If so, I think I'll dig my laser out and dog the hell out of it. I had no idea. BTW, anyone got a scsi card for Apple II they don't want or need? Regards, >> You are supposed to run the laser expansion box off that slot connector, but one time long ago i desperately needed another drive on my laser so i plugged in my disk ][ controller and it worked! its not very pretty hanging off the side, but its worth a try. anyway, i'm keeping my scsi card...

25 years, 7 months

2
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Nuke Redmond!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

At 00:35 10-01-2001 -0500, THETechnoid wrote: <long, pointless rant snipped> And this is related to classic computers, how? Despite the fact that I have no great love for M$ myself, I'm going to limit my comments to this. If you want to expend time and effort venting against Billy-boy and the Redmondians, please put up a web page or something. I have far more important things I choose to concentrate on -- AND read about on this group. *PLONK!* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).

25 years, 7 months

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VCF East Survey

by vcf＠siconic.com

In planning for a VCF East Coast, I wanted to take a poll from folks as to where the ideal location would be. I am currently thinking that somewhere in the New England area would work the best, but what do I know, since I've never been there (besides passing through the airports). In deciding on a locale, I'd like to keep these criteria in mind: 1) Availability of an affordable location suitable for the Festival 2) Geographical proximity to the most number of potential attendees 3) Proximity to major airports 4) Availability of decent accomodations 5) Weather 6) Historical relevance (i.e. near Route 128, as a parallel to doing the main Festival in the Silicon Valley) So if those who are entertaining the notion of going to a VCF East could mosey on over to the following URL and fill in the survey I'd be most appreciative. http://www.vintage.org/survey.html This will help me decide on a place to host the first VCF East. As far as timing, it will have to fall somewhere in between VCF Europa (April 28-29, 2001) and VCF 5.0 (Fall 2001). Basically, late Spring, early Fall. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 7 months

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Want to scrap/salvage: hi-tech equipment (populated circuit boards & equipment racks, chassies, etc.)

by etanaka＠mlcp.com

Hello. We are looking to salvage a quantity of populated circuit boards, 19" equipment racks, smaller chassies and other various hi-tech equipment over the next couple of weeks and need a salvage company that can work with us -- Southern California. How do we proceed? Please advise. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric A. Tanaka MLCP - Multi-Link Communications Products WAN/ LAN Equipment: ADC-Kentrox Adtran Ascend Bay Networks Cascade Cisco / StrataCom Larscom Micom Motorola N.E.T. Newbridge Nortel Networks Paradyne Racal 3Com / US Robotics Timeplex Verilink & others tel............800 TO MULTI (800 866 8584), ext. 14 tel............+1 310 320 1451 fax...........+1 310 320 1551 email...... etanaka(a)mlcp.com URL........ http://www.mlcp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------

25 years, 7 months

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Functional Archive?

by djg＠drs-esg.com

Is there currently any functional archive of this list? www.classiccmp.org doesn't seem to be updating any more. Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights

25 years, 7 months

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New finds

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

In the last couple of days I hit a used book store, scrap yard and Skycraft (THE mother of all surplus stores!) and came away with a good pile of stuff. Motorola Exor-bus CPU card with 6809 CPU, a pile of 7 more Exor-bus cards (Mike, where are you?) and a Rockwell R6500 AIM computer built into some kind of an incomplete machine. It has a riser card on the expansion connector and a second circuit card plugged into the riser. The only name I can find on it is "Aeronca Electronics Inc - 1984". The card has three DataSentry NiCad batteries on it along with two R6522P ICs and two HM 6116 Static Rams. Anyone know what this might have been? Other hardware includes an OMTI bridge board. It's a model 5400. Does anyone know what it is? I haven't had time to research it. Other goodies include "Interfacing to S-100/IEEE696 Microcomputers" by Sol Libes and Mark Garetz, "Starting Forth", "Thinking Forth" and "Discover Forth". Also "Principles of Data Processing with BASIC" from 1970. It's not too exciting except for a section on the IBM 29 card punch in the appendix. Other bookies include "Assembly language for the IBM-PC" by Kip Irvine and "Fundamentals of Logic Design" by Roth. They both look like good books. Joe

25 years, 7 months

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VGA card - 8 bit?

by donm＠cts.com

I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is it just because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the AT class computers? - don

25 years, 7 months

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New finds

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On January 9, Joe wrote: > Other goodies include "Interfacing to S-100/IEEE696 Microcomputers" by > Sol Libes and Mark Garetz, "Starting Forth", "Thinking Forth" and "Discover Wow, Sol Libes! Haven't seen THAT name in a while. I think I had that book at one point. Neat score! -Dave McGuire

25 years, 7 months

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Found Apple II SCSI card

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/9/01 5:52:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, foo(a)siconic.com writes: << Yes! I finally found an Apple II SCSI card. It was inside a //gs I picked up at a thrift store (complete with the AppleColor RGB monitor for $20). Funny how you don't pay attention to certain messages until you get one of what's being discussed yourself :) But my questions is, I can use this in an Apple //e as well, right? >> yes, you can even use it in a ][+ although you have to have 64k so as to run prodos. It would probably even work in a laser128's expansion slot too.

25 years, 7 months

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Found Apple II SCSI card

by foo＠siconic.com

Yes! I finally found an Apple II SCSI card. It was inside a //gs I picked up at a thrift store (complete with the AppleColor RGB monitor for $20). Funny how you don't pay attention to certain messages until you get one of what's being discussed yourself :) But my questions is, I can use this in an Apple //e as well, right? I also picked up a hard drive and some external floppies for the Mac that was there, but I'm wondering if maybe these were used on the GS? The one floppy is an Epson which I know is for the Mac, and the hard drive is a Data Frame DF20. I wonder if I can use this with the GS? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 7 months

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OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 9, 18:35, Tony Duell wrote: > I have a reasonable set of IBM Techrefs, and the timing for the 'IBM > Graphics Printer' (a rebadged Epson MX80 or something like that) is much > the same. In fact that's what I used as the 'standard' to design my > interface. Of course what I'll discover too late is that the Epson timing > (or that of other common printers like the Deskjet family) didn't > actually have to be anything like that and that the authors of various > OSes did something totally different that worked with common printers... FWIW, the two assembly-language routines I can think of that used 7-bit ASCII (one on a Z80 and one on a 6502) both did it by waiting for BUSY to go false, then wrote (char AND 7FH) to the port, wrote (char OR 80H), wrote (char AND 7FH) again, and exited. The eighth data bit was inverted and used as the strobe. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 7 months

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OT: Lightning vs Lightning Bug (Was: RE: Digital Ethernet Local N etwork Interconnect (DELNI)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital > Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I > need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that > can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is ^^^^ > associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation The sought-after word there was "pique". ;-)

25 years, 7 months

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OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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25 years, 7 months

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Sharp MZ-80K Available in UK

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 9, 15:22, Kevan Heydon wrote: > > The guy in the mail below has a Sharp MZ-80K he wants to get rid > of. Please reply to him directly, I don't think he is going to be willing > to post so I think you will have to collect from Bristol. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > I don't really want it, but rather than throw it in a skip, I am trying to > find a good home to give it to. Do you want it (I note you already have > one) or do you know anyone who does? I have one too -- but I think I'm missing the BASIC tape. Could you do me a copy sometime? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 7 months

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cray el (uk) needs rescue

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 9, 10:10, Stuart wrote: > Hi all, > I've been offered a Cray EL in the UK, that frankly, is too big for me to > handle. A good home is needed to offer removal and relocation, or else it > will be scrapped. The machine is non-operational. > Interetested parties should e-mail me. Stu, you could ask Jim Austin (whom I think you know (of)) -- I'm sure he has space since I just moved some of my stuff out of his storage. He already has a Y-MP and a few bigger things. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 7 months

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OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 8, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote: > That's what most of the printer manuals I've seen say as well -- get the > data stable for 0.5uS, bring stb/ low for 0.5us-1us (I saw the correction > you posted) and then keep the data stable for 0.5us after stb/ has risen > again. > Oh well... I'll try the falling edge (which is what the majority of > machines use) and moan about machines that violate the (non-existant?) > standard. The only genuine Centronics manuals I have are for the Centronics 737/739 printers, but for what it's worth, the technical section says the data must be valid for 1us before the leading edge of the negative-going strobe pulse, the pulse should last a minimum of 1us, and the data must remain stable for 1us after the trailing (rising) edge. Of course, this isn't necessarily a standard, just what one Centronics printer wants. In this particular series, the BUSY signal goes active (high) on the trailing edge of ~STROBE (within 50ns) and remains active until the leading edge of ~ACKNLG (within 50ns); ~ACKNLG goes low (active) 300-470us after the trailing edge of ~STROBE (or once the line is printed if the character received is a CR), and lasts for 5us. The only other handshake is ~DEMAND, which is the inverse of BUSY. I used to have some Epson manuals, and I'm sure they use the leading (negative-going) edge of ~STROBE as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 7 months

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Not a BA212, what is it? VAX Question

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Well, this is truly interesting. I cleaned up and checked out the VAX 4000/200 I got in what I thought was the BA212 cabinet. But it isn't. The tag on the side calls it a BA400 series (and the power supply certainly bears that out) but it is like the BA212 in that the card cage is _behind_ the drive bays. The drives are your standard BA440 type removable (who ever invented that guide/track system does NOT get any bonus points) and the front cover doesn't have a door, only a cover to prevent the drives from being removed when it is in place. Does anyone know what chassis type this is? The system was built in 1991 (see, its on topic now :-) but I've not got a later version of the MicroVAX Technical Handbook which might describe it (the version I have describes the BA440 with the VAX 4000/300) --Chuck

25 years, 7 months

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Sharp MZ-80K Available in UK

by kevan＠heydon.org

The guy in the mail below has a Sharp MZ-80K he wants to get rid of. Please reply to him directly, I don't think he is going to be willing to post so I think you will have to collect from Bristol. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:05:25 -0000 From: Nick Reynolds <nick.reynolds(a)icc.win-uk.net> Subject: Do you want (or know anyone who wants) a Sharp MZ-80K? Some years ago I took a Sharp MZ-80K computer (+ manuals + printer + software) off someone who would have otherwise have thrown it in a skip. I believe it works OK, although I've never actually powered it up myself. I don't really want it, but rather than throw it in a skip, I am trying to find a good home to give it to. Do you want it (I note you already have one) or do you know anyone who does? I live in Bristol (UK) and could deliver it to somewhere round here if the eventual recipient had a friend or relative near here who could ensure its eventual delivery. Nick Reynolds

25 years, 7 months

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OT: Lightning vs Lightning Bug (Was: RE: Digital Ethernet Local N etwork Interconnect (DELNI)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On January 9, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital > > Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I > > need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that > > can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is > ^^^^ > > associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation > > The sought-after word there was "pique". > > ;-) Last time I "piqued", I got slapped. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 7 months

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Tektronix 4170 ????

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Is anyone on the list familar with this one? I found one yesterday. It's the size of a large tower case and has two 5 1/4" floppy drives mounted vertically in the top. There are also two "Write Protect" switches on the top of the front panel indicating that it may have internal hard drives. The thing that caught my attention was that it had two disks in the drives and one of them is marked CPM-86. I found a brief description in the 1985 Tektronix catalog. They call it a "Local Graphics Processing Unit" and is used with the 4105, 4106, 4107 and 4109 terminals. From the decription, I *think* it makes them into stand alone CAD systems. Does anyone have any docs for this thing? Joe

25 years, 7 months

1
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cray el (uk) needs rescue

by stuart＠zen.co.uk

Hi all, I've been offered a Cray EL in the UK, that frankly, is too big for me to handle. A good home is needed to offer removal and relocation, or else it will be scrapped. The machine is non-operational. Interetested parties should e-mail me. cheers, stu

25 years, 7 months

1
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OT - ActiveX Controls

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: I figure that I'd lob this out to the group considering that there are probably several programmer-types on the list. I'm looking for a decent, cheap (well, free, or close to it) ActiveX control for MSVC++ that implements a 7- or 14-segment LED display? I've spent most of the night searching for one, but most of what I come up with are VBX controls. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Rich Rich Cini ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/

25 years, 7 months

1
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Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI)

by hsappleton＠sprintmail.com

I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation Headley ===================================================================== PH: 302-798-1930 Fax: 302-798-0243 Mobile: 302-983-4293

25 years, 7 months

1
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"Real" emulation...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >> the add-on A-400 oscillator, used to tune your Moog back up as it drifted >> off pitch, which they all did more or less constantly. The documentation >> mentions retaining this feature even though the emulation no longer >> drifts. >> >> But: why not? Shouldn't it drift, actually? > >Hmm... This is a difficult problem. It was extreamly annoying trying to cut a track and keep pitch over time. >But as regards undesirable behaviour (computers that suffer from logic >problems in the design, synthesisers that drift), well, IMHO the >simulator should be _able_ to exhibit that behaviour as well. A processor >designed with a race hazard so that 1 cycle in 10^11 (or so) it does the >wrong thing should be emulated as having that problem. Maybe there should >be an option to turn it off (on the emulator) though. The bset examples is the 8085 and z80 undocumented instructions that all the vendors faithfully reproduced for that exact reason. >It's not going to be trivial to implement that. Not only do you have to >be able to emulate the machine when some components aren't working >properly (how many people know what (say) a PDP8/e would do if a given >gate was stuck at 0 or stuck at 1, what would happen if one input on a >multi-input gate stopped working), you also have to allow for idiots like >me who want to 'cut tracks', inject arbitrary signals, etc. Are you going >to allow me to 'desolder' components and test them separately. I am >thinking about gates that 'go slow' -- I've had 74S TTL that tests fine >at slow speeds (switches and LEDs on a breadboard) but which fails when >run at full speed. This sort of fault is painful to find because often >the machine works correctly when single-stepped as well. Yes emulating N^X error states is not a lot of fun for something as simple as PDP-8 and it gets worse for more complex systems. Not many would want that save for those training in repair methods. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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"Real" emulation...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Will Jennings <xds_sigma7(a)hotmail.com> >said hardware in operation... From the Ubergeek perspective, then yes, I'd >think you want the emulator to be weird like the real hardware, though it >could be good to have a less flaky version for those who are merely curious >and have never experienced the real hardware... On the other hand, if you're They important item is to be sure the said oddity is really real or some side effect of age, errors in assembly or just bad programming. I also agree with Will, introducing errors is not a desired case. Most floppies actually worked with reasonable reliability. Allison

25 years, 7 months

1
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RD-51's

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> > >Anybody want some rd-51's? They're the real >McCoys, blessed and badged by DEC. They even >come with sleds. 10mb for those that don't know. Also the sleds are handy for those needed to mount a drive in many of the DEC cases. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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Fwd: Re: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing

by rivie＠teraglobal.com

>Many years ago, a company I used to work for did a >Centronics port for TURBOchannel. The timing we wound >up using was data stable 500nS before strobe, strobe >lasts 1mS, data remains stable until 500nS after >strobe. IIRC, this is fairly close to what we found >in Centronics documentation, but I don't remember >what documents we found or what the exact numbers >in that document were. I'm sorry; I had a bit of a brain fart. The strobe lasts for one microsecond, not one millisecond. -- Roger Ivie rivie(a)teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation

25 years, 7 months

1
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VT510 keyboard?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Does the VT510 use a PC type PS/2 keyboard? (ie can I steal one from a PC and use it on the terminal?) --chuck

25 years, 7 months

4
3
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Annoying high pitched squeal

by eweidenh1＠hotmail.com

I recently acquired an Atari 1040f from a friend. It came with the SC1224 color monitor which, for some reason gives off a really awful high pitched sound. Does anyone have some idea why this might happen? It scares my cat. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

25 years, 7 months

3
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FREE HD46505 CRT controller chips

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, I have 19 spare Hitachi HD46505 CRT controller chips that I'd like to offer to the list members for free (you don't even have to pay postage). These chips are UNTESTED, so I make no guarantees... I believe, from looking at datasheets, that these are either a drop-in for, or very similar to, the 6845 CRT chip (the pinout is the same, and two of these are even marked with both the HD46505 and 6845P markings). However, I could be wrong, so caveat emptor... In order to be fair to all list members who might be interested, there are some rules.... - I will take off-list, emailed requests until Midnight, Jan 10, 2001 (US Eastern time). - You can request as many of the chips as you want, but depending on interest, you may only get one or two. - If more than 19 people respond, I will draw emails at random to give the chips out. I am willing to ship anywhere in the world that the US Postal Service allows me to ship the chips. Again, totally free... No, this is not some advertising scheme, and no, I am not harvesting any information from this. I have received a lot of help from list members in the past, and since I haven't been able to answer many questions on the list, this is my form of repayment... Thanks! Rich B.

25 years, 7 months

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Real emulation

by ois140＠hotmail.com

So, I guess I'll have to add sound (and smell?) to my Wang minicomputer emulator to emulate the failure mode of the hard disk drive.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 7 months

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O.T.: Compu-Voxx ??

by lgwalker＠look.ca

I have a box in a nice well padded soft-case called a Compu-Voxx. It was manufactured by Manutronics. It has a removable antenna. It appears to be some sort of transmitting device for sending messages. Based on the instructions on the face you record a message (to a chip I imagine) and then send if the selectable digital readout frequency is between 88.1 and 107.9. That sounds like the AM band to me. Could this be some sort of civil defense emergency device ? It has a 5-pin DIN plug for power which unfortunately didn't come with it which is not an unsurmountable problem. Anyone know what this might be. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker(a)look.ca

25 years, 7 months

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NLS Test Gear

by jpl15＠panix.com

Non Linear Systems has a special place in my checkered past. When I was 13, an old engineer/ham friend of mine gave me an ancient (even then it was old!) NLS 3-digit DC DVM. I was absolutely in heaven. He said " Here ya go, kid, her's a box o' rattlesnakes fer ya!" For those who care.. this DVM used an auto-nulling resistance bridge implemented mainly with 10-pole 40-throw stepping switches. The wiper arms had a ratchet wheel run by a pawl connected to a hefty electromagnet. The device had one stepper for each decade (and hence, digit) with precision resistors soldered to the the switch banks. Applying DC voltage to the imput unbalanced the bridge, and the switches began operating until the bridge nulled out. One set of contacts on each decade switch was connected to a bank of tiny 356-style flange-base lamps, which were mounted in staggered rows in an aluminum holder. the holder was slotted to carry 11 thin clear plexiglass or acrylic panels, about 1" by 1.5", upon which the digits were engraved. (one for a period) When the required lamp was lit, it shone down thru a hole in the carrier for that particular panel, illuminating it edge-on and making it stand out from the other realtively dark panels in the stack. The last digit was a zero and it was damned hard to see in a bright room. It had two rack-mount chassis, the switching part and the thinner display unit, connected by the obligatory multi-core cable and massive winchester connector. The switch box was entirely lined with thick felt inside, to try and reduce the racket. I, of course, ran the thing open most of the time. Any change in the input levels caused the entire system to start at '000' and then work up to a null... the last bits of a reading would slow and then it would stop with the result in the display window, and it did sound like a mechanical snake.. rr-rrr-rrrrrr---r-r-tictic-tic...tic. It was my first piece of 'real' test gear and I'm kinda sorry now that it's gone. snif. snif. O well. No thanks, I don't want to buy another. I live too far away for the shipping to make sense.. ;} Cheers John

25 years, 7 months

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Annoying high pitched squeal

by BGarvey355＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/7/2001 9:16:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eweidenh1(a)hotmail.com writes: > I recently acquired an Atari 1040f from a friend. It came with the SC1224 > color monitor which, for some reason gives off a really awful high pitched > sound. Does anyone have some idea why this might happen? It scares my cat. > Thanks. > It's usually a good sign that the monitor is about to die. You should here how an SC1224 sounds when the rear of the tube has been snapped off at the guns due to bad packaging and careless postal shipping and you unsuspectingly plug it in and power it up. Heeyyy, ya need some parts? ;-) BG

25 years, 7 months

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"Real" emulation...

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

To me, it really comes down to one major issue: Are you running an emualtor as a computer geek who likes to mess with antique stuff or are you running the emulator as a company whose software is dependent on this hardware, but finds it is no longer cost effect or perhaps even no longer possible to keep said hardware in operation... From the Ubergeek perspective, then yes, I'd think you want the emulator to be weird like the real hardware, though it could be good to have a less flaky version for those who are merely curious and have never experienced the real hardware... On the other hand, if you're depending on an emulator to flawlessly run your commercial apps, then you don't want it to ever crash, since a crashed emulator is lost time, which is lost money.. Note that this is only meant to paint a general picture... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 7 months

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Straight 8 Skins

by mburnet＠bigpond.net.au

Geoff, There is an overall diagram of the skins on page 1-12 of the PDP-8 Maintenance Manual. There are 3 pages of dimensional diagrams to the nearest eighth of a inch in Chapter 6, Installation Planning, of the PDP-8 user handbook. I will snailmail a copy to you. I doubt whether they are good enough to use for "manufacture" tho. The two side panels on the power supply would be relatively straight forward. They are rectangular, wood which could be covered with a woodgrain laminate, and aluminium edging. Little hooks on the back ensure they are held firmly to the classic PDP-8 chassis. The plastic doors would be much harder to make IMHO. We always refered to them as plexiglass doors. They are a single piece of transparent green plastic, with an opaque plastic top, plastic edging at bottom and aluminium strips at the front. I think it is all glued together. The plastic top has multiple, long slots cut in it for airflow. I have a desktop classic 8 (Sydney Aust, not much use!) and can take digital pics and send if that would help? If any of your readers wish, I can also offer a large wall poster of the classic PDP-8 and its teletype that I made some years ago. Cheers Max Max Burnet B A C K Burnet Antique Computer Knowhow Pty Ltd Mail PO Box 847 Pennant Hills NSW 2120 Phone +61 2 9484 6772 Mobile 0412 124 006 Email mburnet(a)bigpond.net.au Web www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/a102.htm

25 years, 7 months

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Straight 8 Skins

by geoff＠pkworks.com

Indeed. But the trick is not how to make 'em look fake so that no one will be confused. I'm quite certain that can be arranged with precious little effort. The trick is getting either real skins (thereby circumventing all issues) or mechanical drawings of same so that my correspondent can refurb his Straight 8. Specifically; "...Cradle and module covers for a Straight-8 OR mechanical blueprints for same to convert formerly rack-mounted model to a desktop machine." Can anyone help this fella out? So far, the best information received is a partial from Max Burnet (Thanks again, Max!) from Down Under; can anyone better his information? -----Original Message----- From: Douglas W. Jones <jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu> To: aw288(a)osfn.org <aw288(a)osfn.org>; comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org <comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org> Cc: COMP-HIST(a)cca.org <COMP-HIST(a)cca.org>; aek(a)spies.com <aek(a)spies.com>; bitsavers(a)spies.com <bitsavers(a)spies.com>; bsupnik(a)us.inter.net <bsupnik(a)us.inter.net>; classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>; djg(a)drs-esg.com <djg(a)drs-esg.com>; geoff(a)pkworks.com <geoff(a)pkworks.com>; jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu <jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu>; mac(a)Wireless.Com <mac(a)Wireless.Com>; mbg(a)WORLD.STD.COM <mbg(a)WORLD.STD.COM>; nabil(a)teleport.com <nabil(a)teleport.com>; rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org <rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org> Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Straight 8 Skins >One way to make sure the replicas are obviously replicas is to do them in >the wrong color. Honeywell orange metalwork, for example, with blue tinted >plexiglass instead of the grey that DEC used. Or, as suggested, just mark >them somewhere. > > Doug Jones > jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu >

25 years, 7 months

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Straight 8 Skins

by jones＠cs.uiowa.edu

One way to make sure the replicas are obviously replicas is to do them in the wrong color. Honeywell orange metalwork, for example, with blue tinted plexiglass instead of the grey that DEC used. Or, as suggested, just mark them somewhere. Doug Jones jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu

25 years, 7 months

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Straight 8 Skins

by geoff＠pkworks.com

Not to worry William, my correspondent is an honorable man, and I know that any reproduction work would be properly documented and marked. The real trick is finding the proper information so that the repro work can be done. I am fascinated to hear of replica Audions. Given the amount of work to make them, and make them well enough to fool people into spending big bucks, the forger had to do one heckovalotta work. If you're gonna steal from people because you're too lazy to work for a living, why make it that hard on yourself? Do something easier and more lucrative, like smuggling narcotic babyfood or something. <grin> -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> To: comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org <comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org> Cc: Geoffrey G. Rochat <geoff(a)pkworks.com>; comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org <comp-hist(a)shrimp.osfn.org>; COMP-HIST(a)cca.org <COMP-HIST(a)cca.org>; rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org <rcs-l(a)shrimp.osfn.org>; djg(a)drs-esg.com <djg(a)drs-esg.com>; aek(a)spies.com <aek(a)spies.com>; bsupnik(a)us.inter.net <bsupnik(a)us.inter.net>; mbg(a)world.std.com <mbg(a)world.std.com>; bitsavers(a)spies.com <bitsavers(a)spies.com>; classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>; mac(a)Wireless.Com <mac(a)Wireless.Com>; nabil(a)teleport.com <nabil(a)teleport.com>; jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu <jones(a)cs.uiowa.edu> Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Straight 8 Skins >> The two side panels on the power supply would be relatively straight >> forward. They are rectangular, wood which could be covered with a woodgrain >> laminate, and aluminium edging. Little hooks on the back ensure they are >> held firmly to the classic PDP-8 chassis. >> >> The plastic doors would be much harder to make IMHO. We always refered to >> them as plexiglass doors. They are a single piece of transparent green >> plastic, with an opaque plastic top, plastic edging at bottom and aluminium >> strips at the front. I think it is all glued together. The plastic top has >> multiple, long slots cut in it for airflow. > >Geoff, if your freind does fabricate new covers for the PDP-8, please >tell him to mark it as a reproduction in a permanent, but un-obvious way. >For example, just a simple note like "REPLICA COVERS: 20 JUN 2001" etched >on each cover, inside, in the corner, in very small letters. This will >prevent some jerk in the distant future trying to sell it as a prototype, >or just paint a clearer picture of the provenance of the machine long >after it has changed hands a few times. Being an important machine >(PDP-8), it will always be valued highly and may greatly outlive its >current owner. > >Quite a few years ago, some guys started making replica Audions and other >very early tubes/valves. Some of them are marked, but many are not, and >at least a few people I know have been burned. > >William Donzelli >aw288(a)osfn.org >

25 years, 7 months

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Custom board any cluse?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Ok all you ex-aerospace contractor types out there, here is a challenge for you. My new VAX came from an Aerospace contractor and had a Q-bus board in it >from "K Systems Inc" (the parent company of Kaiser's gov't contractor business. according to Hoovers.com) The board is dual width Q-bus marked "K Systems" "AITG" "Rev C" On board it has a Z80B, Z80BPIO, AM9513 (floating point?) MK6116 (2K RAM), 2764 EPROM marked 35112A0B (c) 1993 KSI, and a part marked MK4501N-12 (what ever that is). Then it has a bunch of analog circuitry, four rotatable switches (set to 0,0,0,0), 7 thinline coaxial connectors, an LED, a 20 pin (10 x 2) connector, standard Q-bus decode logic with what looks like a bunch of dip switches to set the CSR and what looks like a temperature compenstated and potted crystal oscillator. I'm guessing its some sort of time base generator. I'm sure 'sho dev' won't know what the heck it is ! :-) --Chuck

25 years, 7 months

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Yet another VAX has landed

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

This is pretty cool, I have now got a BA212 based VAX for the House of VAX! I just picked up a VAX 4000/200 in a BA212 chassis and it is the first one I've ever seen outside of the MicroVAX "technical handbook"! Fortunately it came with all the parts (only some minor disassembly that was easily corrected). Unfortunately it did not come with the rack "drawer" that mounts it into a 19" rack. This will have to be corrected. Hopefully its presence will attract the necessary parts :-) For those who don't know what it is, the DEC BA212 chassis is a "low profile" rack mount chassis for a DEC Q-bus based VAX system. There is a similar chassis called the BA213 which sits vertically consumes 27" of rack real estate, and has drives in the top half and cards in the bottom half. The BA212 leaves the drives in the "front" but _behind_ the drives is lays a Q-bus backplane down horizontally "into" the rack taking up only 14" of space. This is why you need the drawer sides because to get at the cards you have to slide it way out of the rack! Anyway, I've got the 4000/200 front bezel for it (the version of the technical handbook I have doesn't mention the 4000/200 in this chassis because I believe it was introduced later) One of the neat features I discovered is that it has a couple of "feet" on the front that props up the front of the chassis if you have it out of a rack so that air can flow through it. Just really neat. I'll try to get some pictures of it and put it up on my VAX pages. --Chuck

25 years, 7 months

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RD-51's

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Hi Gang-- Anybody want some rd-51's? They're the real McCoys, blessed and badged by DEC. They even come with sleds. $1 plus shipping. I'll even test 'em to make sure they work. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 7 months

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HP9111A digitizer pad

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

On my way to pick up from the local computer surplus a HP9111A digitizer pad. It looks kind of neat and has been setting there with no takers. HPIB interface I think. I don't want to see it go to China as scrap. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 7 months

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bruker system available in st. louis

by west＠tseinc.com

I had posted a while back about a store in St. Louis that had a "bruker" system. Several people expressed interest in more information about it. Due to that interest, I took a picture of that system today. It was a picture through the window, so it's a really crummy pic, but it'll give you the idea. It sure looks like this system is a cpu, not a disk tester, but I really don't have a clue. As I said, the case and construction appears vaguely similar to the NIC-80. The url is users.tseinc.com/~jlwest/bruker.jpg See me previous email to the list as to what all the buttons and lights are. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll ask the store owner what he wants for it - it's unlabled still price-wise. I'd be happy to arrange shipping for whoever wants it. Jay West

25 years, 7 months

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Yet another virus

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

DO NOT Open "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!" It has the W95.Hybris.Gen.dr virus. Ram

25 years, 7 months

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No subject

by RebusInk＠netscape.net

While trying to to put a new hard drive into my SCSI chain, I couldn't get an old hard drive to show up any more, so I shut off the system and tried to make sure that the SCSI was in. When I turned the system back on, the monitor turned on; but the operating system did not kick in. No welcome message or anything. This was true even when I tried to start up from a system disk? Any ideas what's happening? Or what I can do to fix it? Thanks, I appreciate it. -- --Hurt McDermott<RebusInk(a)netscape.net> 312 951 0259 __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

25 years, 7 months

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Monitor help needed - 3179

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/5/01 10:43:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, russ(a)rbcs.8m.com writes: > All the 3179s I havde ever seen are coax not twinal but Coas. I bvelieve it is the 3197 that is Twinax. Paxton

25 years, 7 months

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Tektronix Terminal 4012

by djg＠drs-esg.com

>From: Owen Cameron <nemo(a)nethouse.goldweb.com.au> >the screen brightens - with a fuzzy circle in the center... >eventually he whole screen is bright. Nothing I've ever done yet has >affected this. > I have a 4010 (still need hard copy unit). This is normal behavior before you hit the page key to erase the screen. It sounds like you will need to do some fixing. The screens on these things weren't very durable, you shouldn't leave it on too long if you can't clear the screen. If you do get it working it it also best to not leave displays up too long. The unit will dim the screen after a few minutes but clearing is still best. Mine has a note stuck to it warning about this (and a sticker inside saying when the tube was replaced). If you have the skill to troubleshoot the maintenance manuals are probably available for around $25. I have gotten Tek stuff from Dean K Kidd, W7TYR 27270 SW Ladd Hill Rd Sherwood, OR 97140 tel 503-625-7363 dektyr(a)teleport.com Also http://www.manualsplus.com/ http://www.manualmerchant.com/ >Yup, there is a [Local|Line] toggle on teh front, next to a power light >which doesn't appear to work, two LED's I've never seen light up, and three > Mine had the same problem with the power light not lighting, I can't remember anymore if page worked. A capacitor had shorted and blew a fuze in the power supply. In the end I had to replace several chips in mine and the shorted capacitor. >I took a few webcam shots of the thing powering up a few days back, if >anyone is curious on the look... they're at: >http://www.net.house.cx/~nemo/visible/tempt/tek4012/ > Looks similar to my 4010 but the boards don't look identical. If it will help I can give you a summary from the manual for my unit on how the clear works. Theory should be similar for yours but were signals go may not be.

25 years, 7 months

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Needed: Straight 8 Skins

by geoff＠pkworks.com

I have a friend who has a Straight 8 (lucky sonnovagun!) for which he is in need, to quote him: "I am currently willing to trade, and in desperate need of: Cradle and module covers for a Straight-8 OR mechanical blueprints for same to convert formerly rack-mounted model to a desktop machine." Does anybody have the items themselves, or a set of prints for them, or be willing to take measurements from what they do have sufficient to allow my correspondent to fabricate replacements?

25 years, 7 months

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Antigen found W32/Hybris-B virus

by ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP＠cmh.edu

Antigen for Exchange found dwarf4you.exe infected with W32/Hybris-B virus. The file is currently Deleted. The message, "classiccmp-digest V1 #477", was sent from owner-classiccmp-digest(a)classiccmp.org (classiccmp-digest) and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound located at CMHMAIL/CMHMAIL/EXCHANGE-SMTP.

25 years, 7 months

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Important

by mrp＠narmada.net.in

Hello Some virus has automatically send msg to all IDs in my outlook adress book. The attached file will be having .TXT.pif extension. Please do not open that file otherwise it will infect yr PC. SORRY M R Pandya

25 years, 7 months

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Monitor help needed - 3179

by Innfogra＠aol.com

The 3179-2 is a color terminal. The 25 pin connector goes to the base which has all of the electronics. I do not think it is usable with anything else but Ibm minis & mainframes. Paxton

25 years, 7 months

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Yet another virus

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

On 2001-01-05 classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers(a)iae.nl >Another reason I still like using Pine under a Unix shell account to >read my ASCII mail. VT100 emulation. The data stream *is* the >content. Hardware requirements: VT-100 terminal, a modem that can >dial a POTS line, and the aformentioned line itself. Nothing more. >Classic Bliss. How about Nettamer? A wonderful all-in-one DOS program to read mail and news, do ftp and a little bit of web surfing. Built in PPP, no external drivers needed. Any attachment just stays in the body of the message and is easily decoded or deleted. Works on any old PC with a modem, very safe. www.nettamer.net As a rule I delete any received binary file that I was not told about beforehand by a trusted source. God knows what garbage might have been in all those animated christmas cards. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

25 years, 7 months

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Dilog 706 and 703 ctrlllers

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Does anyone have handy the jumper changes to make a Dilog DQ706 and DQ703 the *second* MSCP and TMSCP controllers respectively? --Chuck

25 years, 7 months

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Actual users of paper tape

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I have actually worked for three companies where paper tape was actually used every day. The nice thing about paper tape is that you can visually inspect the output and know what was on it. There were commonly two ways to store it, fan folded or rolled. 1. 1974 when I worked in a microbiology lab the SMAC Automated chemistry analyzers produced paper tape that contained the results from the blood chemistry results. The paper tape was then fed into a IBM 360/50 where the lab reports were generated. The reports compared the individual patients results to the predicted normal ranges. The real experts could patch/splice paper tape to correct a result or for a repeat. They didn't run the IBM 360/50 at night while the lab samples were processed. Each analyzer had its own ASR-33. 2. 1975 graduate school, where the PDP 8's were booted by toggling in through the front panel the bootstrap loader and then the actual OS was loaded via paper tape read on an Teletype ASR-33. 3. 1978 McDonnell-Douglas where the programs loaded into individual missiles were punched onto Mylar paper tape and a copy stored in a vault for positive verification of the program that was loaded. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 7 months

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Altair Owners ...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > >As I've often heard, Altair had the reputation that nothing they ever >shipped worked as shipped, often either requiring one pay for a service of >modifying it at the plant before it was shipped, or to fix it or have it >fixed once it had arrived. From a historical perspective, an Altair that >actually works is an anomaly. That explains why they're all different. Not quite. the 8800B was a solid machine and worked well. The early 8800s were flakey but they did run. The most common problems were they tended to crash for apparently no reason and moving the boards on the bus affected this. Their problems were obvious if you think on it. CPU clock was 2mhz crystal TTL gate OSC driving oneshots for the non overlaping two pahse clock... Poor. The bus and frontpannel if assembled "by the book {reads phamplet}" were interconnected by 18" wires! Can you say ringgggggg. The bus (original 4 slotters) were made singel sided with light ground and a but too thin material! The transformer was too light and slighly undervoltage. Filter caps and rectifiers were too small for the load beyond minimum. The 8800A version fixed the most obvious (listed) and many more subtle problems. The key thing was compared to the more robust IMSAI, NS* and later machines it was flimsy and it's reliability was poor. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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Altair Owners ...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >So ... you're of the opinion that Altair computers shouldn't have a disk? >MITS built them with a disk, didin't they? I can't imagine how the Yes they did! The floppy was two boards as a controller. >My recollection was that the original Altair had no I/O devices at all. To Incorrect. Mine arrive in january 1975 with MITS 88-PIO and MITS 88-ACR (audio casette via modded modem board and SIO card pair!) and by summer I had the 2SIO board. Still ahve and use the SIOs and one of the programmers is based on the PIO. >me that didn't suggest it was complete without them, but it did suggest it >was a work in progress when it appeared on the mag cover in '75 or whenever. >It's going to take a couple of days for me to get my head around the concept >you seem to project. Almost true. that cover was shot in September to make the Pop'Tronics schedule, by December it was reality. >I have always thought it was a mistake to refer a computer with >non-MITS-original hardware as an Altair. I kind-of see folks calling it a >FORD if it says FORD on it, even if the engine is from a Chrysler and the >transmission is from a DeSoto. It's a ford of the body and chassis is ford. Most Altairs were MITS box, CPU and some amount or ram and IO but rarely pure. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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Altair Owners ...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Rob Kapteyn <kapteynr(a)cboe.com> >The historically interesting thing about the ALTAIR has how insanely >primitive it was when it became the >sensation that sparked the PC revolution. It was actually more advanced than it's immediate predecessor and many times cheaper than commercial systems based on microprocessors. >Putting a disk on an ALTAIR is kind of cool, but it misses the point of how >primitive they really were. Not really, disks were the expensive peripheral but the design neither negated nor favored their presence. >Yes, parallel logic is much more consistent with the Altair era. >My keyboard is 8-bit parallel, my paper tape reader is 8-bit parallel. Not really, people use parallel AND serial as available. >The only common serial devices were Teletype machines (because of their >evolution from the telegraph). >Teletypes were the most common "terminal" in use back then. Not really save for they could be gotten cheaper. the microcomputer revolution was not about capability, it was about cost! In spring of 1975, H1000 terminal, ADM1, VT05 to name a few could be found. My favorite was SWTP CT1024 board modded for 64Char by 16 lines and lowercase. >Do you even know what paper tape is ? >I think that every ALTAIR had to deal with paper tape at some point. >Magnetic media were too unreliable. Irrelevent. I had reliable magtape by the summer of 1975. >I have a cute little optical paper tape reader that has a row of 9 LEDs and >a corresponding row of photodiodes. >It sends data as eight bits in parallel. Yep, did that too. >To load BASIC, you entered a tiny loader program through the front panel >switches. Rom was expensive and EPROM even more so but by summer of '75 people were using it to get away from the costly and often flakey front pannel. >This program just looked for the tape reader's clock bit, delayed a little, >then read the rest of the byte and stored it in memory. >When you loaded Bill Gate's BASIC, the first data loaded was a more robust >checksum loader. Same as the magtape version. >By the way, in the beginning, ALTAIR BASIC WAS the "Operating System". >Through PEEKs and POKEs executed from your BASIC programs, you could >control all of your hardware. MITS Programming Package I/II gave you editor, assembler, debugger. >I also have a "VDM-1" video display card. We converted an old TV work >with this. Have that too, used a commercial video monitor (used). >After BASIC was loaded, we add a "patch" for this through the front panel >switches. PT supplied it. >That was another interesting thing about the ALTAIR, you could always take >control of your computer through the front panel switches. >There was no "reset" button to hit when your system crashed, your just went >in and looked at what happened. Yes there was! the procedure was STOP, RESET, RUN. >Usually, you went to location 0 and hit "run" to get out of a crash. Like I said... >A "nasty" crash was when an loop overwrote your memory. >This happened fairly often too. Usually due to processor mistiming ro plain old noise. >It was always kind of interesting to look at the patterns that appeared in >the memory when these crashes occurred. Caused by the execution of repeated FFh (RST 7). >I have always thought that if I wanted to be able to easily "boot" my >ALTAIR to show it off, I would construct >a box that would let me load and save my programs to a modern PC through >this parallel port. A PROM worked killer in 1975. >I hate to think that as an "original" Altair owner, I am, myself, a museum >piece :-) >I am only 39 years old. Really kid... I was 22 when I built the first one. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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Altair Owners ...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> >> FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom >> bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, Nope! the first 8" floppy system was all MITS, the later ICOM/PERCOM stuff was better if only because it was later. Allison

25 years, 7 months

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List spammer tracked down

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/5/01 3:22:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com writes: > On Jan 5, 7:34, Bruce Lane wrote: > > All listmembers: It should be obvious that you do NOT, under ANY > > conditions, want to execute the file that got spammed to the list. > > It doesn't run too well under IRIX, anyway ;-) Or Linux, or BSD, or SCO, or HPUX or Ultrix either :-)

25 years, 7 months

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List spammer tracked down

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 5, 7:34, Bruce Lane wrote: > All listmembers: It should be obvious that you do NOT, under ANY > conditions, want to execute the file that got spammed to the list. It doesn't run too well under IRIX, anyway ;-) > I've tracked the spammer [...] > The spam is already on its way to them with > a request to crater the account responsible. > > You're welcome. ;-) Thank you! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 7 months

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Tektronix Terminal 4012

by nemo＠nethouse.goldweb.com.au

G'day, I have one of these beasties sitting around - they're a mid-late 1970's design I believe (the only date I can find on it however is the copyright on the PCB for the powersupply - 1971). At first glance, it does appear to work - powers up and screen glows a wonderfull cliche green. Serial cord connected and send data to it... no effect. :( So, has anyone ever setup one of these things to work as a terminal to a common garden PC (linux user I am)? Might the screen have burnt out and it simply is unable to display anything I send to it anyways? Does it need a straight-through or null-modem serial connection? Do I need to send an initialisation string to it before it'll accept and display any data? None of these things I know, and trial and error problem solving can be frustrating, especially if other problems prevent them from being solved that way! ;) btw, I have a few cheap webcam shots of the thing, and can get them on a webpage, if anyone is interested in seeing the thing. .../Nemo -- -=- <nemo(a)net.house.cx> -=- http://www.net.house.cx/~nemo/ -=- -=- -=- -=- The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music! -=-

25 years, 7 months

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Altair Owners ...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > >without physically modifying the orignal boxes, though that's not always >easy. I'm curious about whether a "real" Altair user has preference for one >or the other of the two modes of interfacing the clearly not original MITS My $0.02 is unless it's a 8800B a stock Altair unmodded is not something I'd desire to run. To collect as static historical item unmodded is fine. Over the years it was rare I that I'd see a Altair 8800(A) that was pure altair. I knew of only one, it was one cranky beast! Allison

25 years, 7 months

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List spammer tracked down

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

All listmembers: It should be obvious that you do NOT, under ANY conditions, want to execute the file that got spammed to the list. It contains a fairly nasty virus. It should be deleted without hesitation. I've tracked the spammer back to snip.net, and I just got off the phone with their tech support center. The spam is already on its way to them with a request to crater the account responsible. You're welcome. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).

25 years, 7 months

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Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!

by hahaha＠sexyfun.net

Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a *huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven Dwarfs enter...

25 years, 7 months

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