- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Since I have had some requests from dealers I went through my storage locker and pulled out most of the rest of my DEC cards. The highlight seems to be some complete core memory sets. There are a couple of Floating Point cards, a GPIB, 11/02 & 11/23 CPUs and Drive controllers. Please contact me off list at whoagiii(a)aol.com with offers or if you have questions. I am traveling this week so it may take me a day or two to answer. Paxton Astoria Oregon Here is the list: DEC cards - QBUS 1 M3104 DHV11-A Quad 8-LINE ASYNC MUX, DMA (DHV11) 2 M7264 KD11-F, 11-03 Processor wi 4K word MOS RAM **** 2 M7264 CB KD11-F, 11-03 Processor wi 4K word MOS RAM **** 1 M7264 YC KD11-H, 11-03 Processor wi 0K word RAM, Rev F or later **** 13 M7270 KD11-HA, LSI-11/2 CPU, 16-bit **** 1 M7546 TQK50-AA, TMSCP controller for TK50 tape unit 1 M7680 RK05 2 M7800 DL11, Async transmitter & receiver, 110-2400 baud, 2 M7800 YA DL11, M7800 without EIA chips, current loop only 2 M7856 DL11-W, RS-232 SLU & realtime clock option 3 M7940 DLV11, Serial Line Unit (SLU, Async) 8 M7941 DRV11, 16 Bit Parallel Line Unit 1 M7944 MSV11-B, 4-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM (external refresh) 2 M7946 RXV11, RX01 8" floppy disk controller 1 M8013 RLV11, RL01 disk controller, 1 of 2, Wi BC06-R Cable 1 M8017 DLV11-E, Single-line async control module 2 M8017 AA DLV11-E, Single-line async control module 2 M8028 DLV11-F, Async interface EIA/20mA, error flags, break 1 M8029 RXV21, RX02 floppy disk controller, 18-bit DMA only. 11 M8043 DLV11-M, 4-Line Asynchronous Interface 1 M8044 CB MSV11-DC, 16-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 10 M8044 DB MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 2 M8044 DC MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 1 M8044 DE MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 1 M8044 DK MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 1 M8044 EB 1 M8044 EM 1 M8045 DC MSV11-ED, 32-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM 3 M8045 DH MSV11-ED, 32-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM 1 M8045 DL MSV11-ED, 32-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM 1 M8059 FF MSV11-LF, 64-Kword MOS RAM, single voltage **** 1 M8059 KC MSV11-LK, 128-Kword MOS RAM, single voltage 2 M8059 KP MSV11-LK, 128-Kword MOS RAM, single voltage 3 M8186 KDF11, DUAL HEIGHT CPU,Q-BU **** 1 M8186 KDF11, DUAL HEIGHT CPU,Q-BUS CABLED TO **** 1 M8188 FPF-11, FLOATING POINT PROCESSOR Quad **** 1 M8639 YA RQDX1, RD51/52 & RX50 MFM Disk control module 2 M8950 TM78,READ CHANNEL 2 M8958 TM78 TRANSLATOR 1 M8960 8085 CPU Quad **** 1 M8973 8085 EXTENDED MEMORY,DBL8.5 **** 2 M9400 YE REV11-E, Headers and 250-ohm terminators (18-bit bus only) 2 M9404 Q22 bus cable connector, no terminators 1 W987A Quad Extender 1 W984A Dual Extender 1 H3001 Wi Plate Single Line RS232 Interface No cable 1 H3271 Staggered Turnaround Test Connector (DZ11[-x]) OTHER QBUS CARDS 1 Heathkit Serial I/O H-11-5 With cable to strange square plug Date 011879 **** 1 National Instruments GPIB11-1 Rev A Quad **** 2 Plessey 701065-100H Single Serial Mil spec connectors Quad 1 Scientific Micro Systems FD0100I L/E-HIP 7939 Floppy Controller Quad **** 2 135 Q-Bus Digitizer Inf Rev C White handles Tek? Quad 1 Dilog DQ342 Rev C Tape controller emulates TS11/TU80,TSV05 NICE Quad **** 1 Dilog MQ696 Rev D 20 Mhz ESDI, FLOPPY, MSCP **** 1 Emulex TC1510201-SXC .25 Cassette Tape controller, wi Cable 1 Emulex TC1510201-SXD .25 Cassette Tape Controller, wi cable 1 Tektronix CP4100/IEEE 488 INTERFACE 1/83 Quad **** 1 Datasystems DLP-11 Quad Line Printer I/F 1 Dataram Assy. 62404 Rev D 8704 8 Meg Ram Quad 1 MM Memory 20-4930-01 Rev B 4 Meg Ram Quad 1 Ikonas IKQ 85/32-301-017-10A, BROKE WHITE TABS Quad BAR CODES *3130101710AL*, *W0304701* & *11966* 1 MDB MDB-1710 Prototype section board Quad **** 1 MDB MDB-11WWB Rev C Prototype card Quad **** 4 MDB MLSI-DLV11 #40320 Serial cards 1 Data Systems Design (DSD) A4432-3 LSI-11 1978 1 Intel 05-0848-006 LSI-11 Memory card with only 5 chips socketed **** 1 Digital Pathways RMA-128 Memory card with 32 64K chips 2 Motorola Memory Systems MMS122N3032 Memory card with Gold piggy back 32K 4132 DRam chips 1 Rev B (not working), 1 Rev C **** 1 Datafusion OSB11-A-01 Two Cards Dual Width Termination 1 Data Translation EPO43 Rev F 11/82 wi DT15150 DC/DC Converter **** 1 Data Translation DT2764-SE EPO50 Rev H 06/82 A to D Board 1 Netcom NDLV-11 Serial Card 1 2501 2045 Army Green handles Seiko mfg Jumper two card set 1 4711 00 Army Green handles A/D Sample Hold 2501-4711-00/4 Wi Datel Ultra Fast A/D Converter ADC-EH12B3 Missing 2 TTL chips 1 4990 Army Green handles 1923-4990/1 wi ADC DAC1207, 05/64 OEM sticker Single width card. DEC CORE MEMORY **** 4 G110 Core Memory set for PDP 11/40 **** 4 G231 16K XY Selection, Current source, Address Latch,8K Decode. **** 3 H214 Core 8KX16 8K 16 bit **** 1 H215 Core 8KX18 (375) 8K 18 bit **** 2 sets H222A MM11-DP 16KX18 (375) 16K per set, unsure of the sys **** G652 **** MASSBUS MASSBUS MASSBUS 2 M5903 DRIVE TRANCEIVER 2 M5922 MASS BUS TRANSCEIVER, PORT A, RM03 Unusual cards 6 wide - Cannot tell if Uni or Q 1 ? SDLC PCB127 Rev C 2 ? Q BUS SYS PCB136 Rev B Appears to be a test board. Has TST/NOR, HIT/RUN & RESTART switches. Also has LEDs for TEST NO., CODE, STATUS wi LSB & MSB. DEC Cards that are 4 wide but not able to tell if Uni or Qbus 1 M3110 PROTOCOL ASSIST #1 SPEC CHAR 1 M3111 PROTOCOL ASSIST #2 SPEC CHAR 2 M7364 2 M7365 1 M7366 Unibus Unibus Unibus 1 M3105 DHU11-A, 16-LN ASYNC MUX,DMA 3 M7133 KDF11-UA, 11/24 CPU, LINE CLOCK, 2 SER 1 M7294 RH11 MASSBUS DATA BUFFER & CONTROL 1 M7295 RH11-A, BUS CONTROL 3 M7485 YA UDA50-A two with both jumper cables, 3 M7486 UDA52, UDA SI one with one jumper cable 2 70-18455-6K Red cable sets for above 5 M7819 DZ11, 8-LINE DBL BUF ASYNC EIA WI MODEM CONTROL 7 M7819 00 DZ11, 8-LINE DBL BUF ASYNC EIA WI MODEM CONTROL 1 M7867 DUP11-DA, SDLC or DDCMP Sync Interface 1 M7891 DK 128-Kword 18-bit parity MOS memory 1 M7900 RK611, RK06/07 Unibus Interface 1 M7901 RK611, RK06/07 Register Module, Hex 1 M7902 RK611, RK06/07 Control Module, Hex 1 M7903 RK611, RK06/07 Data Module, Hex 1 M792 YL RX11 floppy loader 3 M8265 KD11-EA, 11/34A data paths module 2 M8266 KD11-EA, 11/34A control module 1 M8267 FP11-A, 11/34A Floating Point **** 1 M8743 AP MDECS-AA, 512-Kbyte ECC RAM 5 M9202 UNIBUS connector, inverted M9192-M9292, 1"APART W/2'C 1 70-20956-10 Cable set Other Mfg. UNIBUS 1 Emulex CS2110203/F1E 16 Ch RS-232 Communications controller 1 Emulex CS2110203/F2B 16 Ch RS-232 Communications controller 1 Western Peripherals TC131 Tape Controller 1 Plessey Peripherals 701840-101J 2-50 pin & 1-26 pin connectors 1 Intergraph PCB360 Rev A Ethernet & 1 Meg Ram 1 M&S Computing PCB209 Rev B Vector Data Generator END END END

23 years, 11 months

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Off-Topic Toys

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

OK, Bill, you wanted a PCI-based RS/6000? One of our clients is trading up to an H80, and IBM just lowballed them on their trade-in. They're putting thei old server on the market. It ain't a classic or even uncommon, but I thought some of you guys might be interested. S70A 4-way 4G RAM SSA - just adapters, they're keeping the drawer. 8 ethernet adapters, IIRC. 2 10/100, 6 10bT, subject to my CRAFT Syndrome PCI graphics, I think GXT120. They're looking at about a $10,000 price tag, and a March 1 release date. This guy has been lovingly & lavishly maintained. Anybody interested can contact me for detailed specs. Doc

23 years, 11 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

--- "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)subatomix.com> wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have been told there's a KS-10 somewhere in this town When I track > > him down, I'll at least get pictures. I'll also see if he's bored > > with it and make an offer. > > Wow, thanks. I'd appreciate any information you have. Just found out yesterday that he doesn't have it anymore. No further info. I asked if it was sold or scrapped or what, but my contact had no idea. This guy would have gotten it from CompuServe circa 1994, so I don't even know if he got rid of it recently or not. Foo! -ethan P.S. - Still working on the SC-35s and SC-40s. *No* idea if I'll ever be able to get one as they drop off service eventually. There are still several dozen in active use in Columbus. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

23 years, 11 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Commodore built a "luggable" C64 with 5in colour CRT and 5.25in drive, I've never seen one on ebay. Chris Leyson

23 years, 11 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

--- Robert Schaefer <rschaefe(a)gcfn.org> wrote: > Just out of curiousity, where is this town? > > Bob > > > > > I have been told there's a KS-10 somewhere in this town (owned by a > > former CompuServe employee... Columbus, OH, home of CompuServe. Unfortunately, as I've already written, I found out yesterday that at some point between 1994 and last week, this guy got rid of it in an unspecified manner. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

23 years, 11 months

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Apple Scribe Printer

by mythtech＠Mac.com

I aquired an Apple Scribe printer last night (went back to the Thrift Store and they hadn't repriced it, so I asked, and the guy let me have it for $2). It worked briefly, it printed the first 4 lines of a test pattern and then jammed. It looks like it may just need to be greased (the print carriage is really hard to slide by hand, but not so hard that I am hitting motor resistance, I just think after all these years, the guide bar may have dried up enough). But, before I get into opening it and regreasing it... I was seeing if anyone had a manual for it and can tell me what the blinking light indicates. When I turn it on, the Select Light blinks in patterns of three (three blinks, pause, three blinks, pause...). I did a quick google search, didn't turn up much (but found some places to buy a new ribbon, and found a few "museum" listings for it). Apple's TIL also didn't cover the lights (but has some control info so I can see if I can get it to work with one of my computers). Finally, does anyone know if there was ever a Mac driver for it? Or if the Imagewriter driver will work with it? Apple's TIL seemed to indicate it was just for the Apple II series (they leaned towards talking about the IIc in conjunction with it, but since everything seemed to say the application in use is what drives it, I would think just about any Apple II with a serial card should be able to work with it). I do know the archives showed someone else on the list found one of these back in June, but there wasn't much said about it. TIA -c

23 years, 11 months

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Where can I get a VT100 Terminal?

by bpope＠wordstock.com

All, Does anyone have a VT100 compatible terminal they want to get rid of? Thanks, Bryan Pope

23 years, 11 months

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Speaking of PS/2s...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! Wizard True blue of 70-A and P75 needs screen debugged, and small ! slew of Macs: 475, LCIII+, IIci and empty IIci hacked up box, 8500 ! and parts of other models. Newer three AMD clones two socket As and ! slot A. Huh? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 11 months

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Where can I get a VT100 Terminal?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! Bryan Pope wrote: ! > ! > All, ! > ! > Does anyone have a VT100 compatible terminal they ! want to get rid of? ! > ! > Thanks, ! > ! > Bryan Pope ! ! ! There is ahamfest coming up here in St. Joseph, I'll keep my ! eyes open. ! ! Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, where? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 11 months

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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Hmmm, your firstborn? > > Name the movie: > > "We'll kill every first-born son!" > "No, too Jewish." Life of Brian, or History of the World, Part I? Still waiting for part II, "Jews in Space"... -dq

23 years, 11 months

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Speaking of PS/2s...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/18/01 10:38:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, doc(a)mdrconsult.com writes: << I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this list. I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with 4 megs of RAM and a 120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0 Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's really why I bought it. I also have a Model 25 386dx/16 which is one of my favorites. It had a token-ring ISA adapter, as well as an 8-bit ethernet adapter I can't ID, no hard-drive, and was set up to netboot. I finally found the J-leg 387 for it, stuck in a 500m drive with EZ-drive, and run PC-DOS & Lemmings, mostly. >> The 8570 you have is not bad, but way too small and not really easy as far as drive expansion goes. put the max amount of 16meg memory in it and os2 will thank you. mod80 is much better for expansion. that 386 8525 is neat, but not really rare. I wouldnt consider any PS/2 rare except for maybe the PS/2 E which I would just call uncommon. Happy Festivus!

23 years, 11 months

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OS/2

by Gary.Messick＠itt.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:53 AM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OS/2 > > > > > hi -- im new to this list but an old fan of os2 -- i > would love the warp > > > server if you could part with it or copy it -- what would > you want in > > > return ? ------- billp > > > Hmmm, your firstborn? > > Name the movie: > > "We'll kill every first-born son!" > "No, too Jewish." > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- > Mission: Impossible - > Blazing Saddles of course! ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************

23 years, 11 months

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was "how to clean".. How did they

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> > Women would work for lower wage than men doing a tedious > task that was fairly skill intensive. Story of my mom's life -- she was a master of the soldering iron, and top-of-the-line at Convair (wiring electrical harnesses in aircraft) and Swan (assembling transceivers). She had to work quickly, there was no margin for error, and she never made diddly, money-wise. I'm really grateful that she taught me how to solder at an early age, though ;>) Glen 0/0

23 years, 11 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> Right on very few if any! Most went to byte wide or multiples of byte >> wide... give a guess why? >4 bit TTL? IBM-360's? ASCII ? All of the above, though I believe the predominence of ASCII for IO had a big impact and even IBM coding {EBDIC???} wanted around 8 bits. >If you don't keep ISZ and I/O instructions the same speed that >seems quite possible. The PDP-X runs at 8 MHZ and executes 1 memory >cycle every 500 ns. http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ That is 3x >faster than a PDP-8/I with PDP timing. ISZ was expendable though very useful. The PDP-8 style of IO however was where a lot of the power in that machine was hidden. You could seriously extend the machine there. >> is simpler in some respects but far less flexible when it comes to >> fixing a bent opcode. > >Bent opcode ... that is where you use the BIG HAMMER! >In the design I was prototyping I had a lot of short instructions thus >a 512x32? rom was more than ample. Bent in that you might want a load to always be some opcode and a logic change down stream makes it something different do to gating. A PLA or Prom to translate opcodes from a irregular pattern of hardware convenience to something regular is handy. Besides with 48 bits of ucode the address of the next instruction is in the ucode and the logic is a really wide prom with a really wide latch and a really simple next address select logic (some LS257s). No counters or incrementors, The translated opcode from the prom was the source of the high order ucode address after a "next instuction fetch". Made the ucode very simple though not very efficient in terms of bits. Eproms though slow made it cheap with bipolar proms as follow up for speed. Allison

23 years, 11 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >But then I find 6800/6809 code more readable than "You Know Who" I kinda figured that. Just like I prefer Z80 opcodes to 8080 as they are more regular in format. >This will be simple polled loop with interrupts disabled regardless >of what chip I use. I would love to have had DMA but I ran out resources >for it. In fact DMA is rather messy as I don't tri-state the address bus Polled loop has speed requirements and the problem of what to do if the FDC never sees dat and has to error out. >and would have to stop the CPU for a free memory cycle. If I was >doing this on a I/O card I most likely would have a sector buffer >their rather than dma. The last design I did that way save for ram was cheap by then so I did a full track buffer. Allison

23 years, 11 months

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Speaking of PS/2s...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Linux MCA would ahve appeal but likely wont happen for a 286 boxen Allison -----Original Message----- From: Boatman on the River of Suck <vance(a)ikickass.org> To: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> Cc: Classic Computers <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s... >On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc wrote: >> > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >> > >> > > The 8570 you have is not bad, but way too small and not really easy as far as >> > > drive expansion goes. put the max amount of 16meg memory in it and os2 will >> > > thank you. >> > >> > That requires an expansion board, right? The little info I can find >> > suggests that 3 2M SIMMs is max, onboard. >> >> I thought I was the only PS/2 fan here :P > >I was one of the developers who worked on Linux/MCA. > >> Depending on the model of your board, you could have a max of 6mb or 8mb. >> To add more memory, you would need an expansion board. One of the better >> boards I that I used to use in model 60 machines was made by Kingston and >> took up to 4 72pin simms. > >I believe the BXX series could do 16 MB on the board. Plus the 72-pin >SIMMs weren't your standard plain-vanilla ones. They had PS/2 Presence >Detect (PPD) feature on them. > >> One of the best non IBM references I ever found for the PS/2 line is a >> book called "Upgrading and Repairing PCs", written by Scott Mueller, and >> published by QUE. The last edition that had the PS/2 info in it was the >> 4th edition. I never owned a hardcopy of the 4th edition, but I have an >> electronic version of it that came on cdrom with the 10th edition. I >> completely wore out my 2nd and 3rd editions of the book. (If anyone has a >> 4th edition in good shape that they don't want, I'd be more than willing >> to pay shipping.) > >I have a better source. I have the internal IBM technical manuals and >schematics for every PS/2 ever made, including rare ones like the N51SX, >and the 43SL. > >Peace... Sridhar > >

23 years, 11 months

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test ignore

by halarewich＠shaw.ca

trying out my new email address chris h

23 years, 11 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > Guess what? It's for a PS/2. > What you have is an IRISVISION display adapter. Check out > Louis Ohland's > "9595 Ardent Tool of Capitalism" page. I have just such a board that was a pull from an RS/6000. I wasn't aware that many of them sold for use in PS/2. In fact, their use in the machines (IIRC) was originally just for testing purposes because they booted faster than the RS/6000s ;) Nice board. Wish I could do something with it (Like get an rs/6000 and software to drive it!) :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

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Holiday spirit (was Re: Troll got me)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Chris <mythtech(a)Mac.com> > Oh, you need to come up here, and visit the heavily black neighborhoods > of Jersey City (conviently, right where my wife grew up)... there, > Kwanzaa is a big deal, and it has NOTHING to do with retailers getting > their money. It has everything to do with their not celebrating christmas > because that is whitey's holiday, and crackers are the enemy (their > terms, not mine... No thanks! I think I'll stay away from your neck of the woods! It's bad enough here! In the last five years there have been a dozen shootings and one murder within a quarter-mile radius from my shop. I keep the place looking run-down so I won't get robbed. Not to imply that all these crimes were committed by black folk -- but the fact is that most of them were . .

23 years, 11 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >Yup! That's already been pointed out ... I made the choice to use the Western >MFM-capable part back in '78 and never looked back. I let someone else tell me >why, but I never regretted it. The process with the Western part is apparently >the same, though there was something critical that the NEC part didn't do. >Maybe it had to do with altering the gap lengths in order to accomodate an extra >sector, or some such. Of course, possible or not, I never ended up doing that >either. Gaps are programmable too. There are two things the 765 will not do: Munged wacky formats like using deleted address mark for address mark {you can post format with deleted data} and it was not designed to pump out all the raw bits/splices/marks from the media. Things it did do that the WD never had: Multiple seeks or recals, timing for the stepper, head load delay, head settle delay. The biggest difference: register based programming vs command packet to a "port". I've used both and someplaces one or the other is better. On the whole the WD parts always seemed to be first generation. The upside for the 765 based was the very highly integrated super chips like the 36c766 and later. Allison

23 years, 11 months

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Fwd: pdp-11/34 for rescue

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

Here's a PDP-11/34 with RK05 drives available. If I had somewhere to put it, I wouldn't mind picking it up myself as it's only a few hours from here. But no room....so, I'm passing it on to the group. Please reply to the original poster shown below. Jeff >Status: RO >Reply-To: <r.m.faison(a)larc.nasa.gov> >From: "Richard Faison" <r.m.faison(a)larc.nasa.gov> >To: <jhellige(a)earthlink.net> >Subject: pdp-11/34 for rescue >Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:47:30 -0500 >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >Importance: Normal > >have "won" a rack full of pdp-11/34 (w/2 rko5a drives) that needs a good >home >any suggestions e-mail me @ day-o(a)cavtel.net or call (757) 865-0000 x244 >(days) >or (757) 850-4220 (evenings) > >thanks -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > > *Really*? What are my chances of finding one? I'd love to > have an IRIS > > 3000, if I found that I could fit it in the house. :) Did > they run the > > early versions of IRIX? > Um, no, not really. I'm sure a Cyber 910 is a rebadged 4D/35 > (or variant, > depending on the Cyber suffix), very similar to an Indigo, > and much smaller > than a 3000. There are plenty of pictures on the web, and > references in > the 4D FAQ. They'll run IRIX 4 or IRIX 5. Well, that's disappointing, but 4D is still nice. I do have my heart set on eventually running an m68k-based SGI though. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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DEC bus driver/receiver chips

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Anybody got the pinout for the following: DEC 380 bus receiver DEC 97401 bus receiver DEC 384 (or DEC 5384, which I think is the same) bus driver Are any of these similar to an 8880, 8881, or 8640? Or to any of the 8Txx or any more modern ICs? I'm trying to fix an interrupt fault on my PDP-8/E, and having a bit of trouble following the circuit. My M8650 isn't quite the same as the diagrams in the Maintenance Manual :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 12 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > In real life, it's pretty tough to convince management that you should start > > all over. The typical reaction is to put the prototype in a box and sell as > > is :-( > > Another manifestation of the "There isn't enough time to do it right but > there's enough time to do it over" school of thought :-( Is this Darwinian? That is, do people who lose their common sense and become stupid just naturally rise up into management (a la The Peter Principle)? Or do they willingly learn to be stupid once they rise up into management? Chris, you're management, so I know this isn't universal (how has your brain survived?) but it's damned prolifigate... -dq

23 years, 12 months

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Core pictures (was cleaning 8/A)

by djg＠drs-esg.com

>From: Chad Fernandez <fernande(a)internet1.net> > >I've never seen core in real life...... how small are the wires? > My 8/E 4k core looked to be about 40 gauge. The 8/E also had an 8k core and the 8/A a 16k core. They would be even smaller. Here is my pictures of the PDP-8/E 4kx12 core board. http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pics/g619a-300.shtml?small Closeup of a small section letting you see the wires (select large size to really see them). http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pics/g619a-bit.shtml?small David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights.

23 years, 12 months

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Need an SCO System V Xenix boot/recovery disk

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] > Now, the bad... while cleaning it up (about 6 lbs of dust in > the box) and > getting ready to image off the hard drive (backups are always a good > thing, no?), either I fumble fingered something or my drive > test/backup > program was having a 'bad hair day', cause it nuked the boot > record on the > drive! (AARGH!) Oops. :) > 'Course... just to add insult to injury, it then went > happily ahead and > ran off the image of the hard drive just like I wanted in the > first place, > minus a valid boot record of course. B^{ Well, you have a good image. That's a start. > So... would anyone perhaps have an appropriate boot disk on a 3.5HD > floppy that I could get, and any convienient hints on how to > regenerate > the boot for this thing? Was it just the MBR that got nuked? Lots of times on intel systems, those are similar if not identical. All the boot-loader magic is handled in the second-stage loader near the beginning of the partition, or something like that. :) If that is the case, you may be able to replace it with the MBR from an MS-DOS bootable hard-disk. Also the DOS command FDISK/MBR is known to restore the MBR to such a state that at least MS-DOS will boot. If Xenix expected the standard DOS MBR, you'd be all set. So you could try making an MS-DOS bootable floppy, copying FDISK.EXE to the floppy, booting the machine from that and running the command. If the Xenix MBR really is different, then you may still be able to get away with using the DOS loader, provided there's a second-stage boot-loader in the right place on the Xenix partition. You would just use FDISK to set the bootable partition flag on the partition you'd like to boot, and the DOS boot-loader will try to pass control to a second-stage on that partition. Once you got in, of course, you could re-install the proper Xenix boot-loader (instboot?) I would back up the MBR first. I think there are utilities with most boot-loader apps that will do that. (Note that this is more-or-less speculative, but I'd like to know if you try it, and specifically, whether it works) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > hmmm...I'd only need the latter :) anyone have any idea where I could find > it? might the drivers come with AIX 4.3.2? I sort of doubt it, but you never > know... I know of somebody who's got some RS/6000 machines which he believes might contain the drivers on their internal disks. He hasn't started any of them up yet, though, AFAIK. He's promised me a copy of the drivers if he has them, but as to when he'll get around to checking, your guess is as good as mine. I have heard (please let me know if you find out differently) that they weren't part of any AIX distribution media, but were separate. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by ken＠seefried.com

For me: I like to find systems with a National Semi 32000 series chip, esp. NS32532. Not rare, per se, but very uncommon. For really rare, I'd think: A Lilith or a Ceres An Ampere APL machine Anything iAPX-432 Ken

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > IRIX only runs on MIPS. Some other SVR3ish software I can't > remember the > name of ran on the m68k boxes. I talked to the guy who handles the IRIS 2000/3000 FAQ, and he seemed to think that it was "IRIX." I would be interested if you find out more details. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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Fwd: [TUHS] Anybody want 3B2 or 6300+ stuff

by jfoust＠threedee.com

>From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)minnie.tuhs.org> >To: The Unix Heritage Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> >Reply-To: wkt(a)tuhs.org >X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] >Subject: [TUHS] Anybody want 3B2 or 6300+ software/documentation/hardware? >Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:49:30 +1100 (EST) > >All, > Aharon Robbins just passed this on to me. Maybe some >of you are interested in this. > Warren > >----- Forwarded message from Aharon Robbins ----- > > From: Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> > To: wkt(a)tuhs.org > Subject: would any of this be useful to TUHS? > >I am cleaning out my attic. What does that mean?? It means a lot of >AT&T documentation and software needs to find a home to avoid ending >in the dumpster. I have documentation and sfotware for the 6300+ and the >3B2. Some of it still in the original shrink-wrap. > >And yes, this is on topic. I also have quite a bit of software and >documentation for the Unix-PC as well. Much of this still in the >original packaging. OS, Development sets, utilities. everything must >go. I also have three complete Unix-PC's and two without disks or >heads but with functional motherboards. At least all of this stuff >was functional the last time I actually turned any of them on. I have >one that I just fired up (that's already been claimed) to test it and >it works fine, so i assume the same is true of the others. I would >probably be willing to let all of them go at this point. Nice machines, >but my PDP's and VAXen need the room. > >Now the only string. I will not ship any of this. it is located in >NEPA in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area and must be collected. And it >must be soon. > >One person can claim it all and then ship it to others if they wish, >or people can email me asking for particular packages. First come, >first served. If you know of any other places where there might be >interest in the 3B2 or 6300+ stuff feel free to forward this message. > >All the best. >bill >----- End of forwarded message from Aharon Robbins ----- >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

23 years, 12 months

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Need an SCO System V Xenix boot/recovery disk

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

So... down a path I've not gone in a while. Just got a system for my business (it's classic too, I'll ramble on that later) and part of it is a Wyse 386 box running SCO System V Xenix. That's the good part... Now, the bad... while cleaning it up (about 6 lbs of dust in the box) and getting ready to image off the hard drive (backups are always a good thing, no?), either I fumble fingered something or my drive test/backup program was having a 'bad hair day', cause it nuked the boot record on the drive! (AARGH!) 'Course... just to add insult to injury, it then went happily ahead and ran off the image of the hard drive just like I wanted in the first place, minus a valid boot record of course. B^{ So... would anyone perhaps have an appropriate boot disk on a 3.5HD floppy that I could get, and any convienient hints on how to regenerate the boot for this thing? Many thanks; -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated.

23 years, 12 months

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Honkey

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > How in the hell did this list get into racial slang anyway? > > The same way it gets into cats, food, cars, guns, <insert other > inappropriate topic here>... > > A lot of folks here need to get out more often. <sigh> If only there were someplace to get out *to*... maybe Bubba and Billy Joe are slugging it out again at the Silver Dollar... that's always a good show. We used to have some very cool, dark, smoky blues clubs around in the 80s... then blues got popular with Gen-X-ers and it all moved downtown to clean, glitzy, neon-infested juke joints... I might point out that some off-topic threads have gone private and ended up being the beginning of more than one new friendship... -dq

23 years, 12 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >What I wanted was a 12/24 bit CPU. Other than the 6100 cpu ( over >priced? ) >by DEC nobody has ever put a octal machine 24:12 or 18:9 or 36:18:9 on a >chip. >(Ignoring PDP-10 stuff) to my knowledge. Right on very few if any! Most went to byte wide or multiples of byte wide... give a guess why? I've always felt that 24bvits was a good starting point for a clean slate machine or a stretched PDP-8. By Stretched 8 I mean just add 12 bits to the right and extend everything else the same amount, gives you a 500k page address and a 16mb machine address. So what if the instruction set is thin if done with modern FPGAs an easy 100ns (12x faster) instruction cycle time would be fine. >I have yet to see a nice micro-code example. All the micro-code >I have done ( on paper ) needed 32+ bits for a 2901 design. >Also about 2K of ROM. TTL controller. It got messy after you added >a MAR, In/out registers, and stuff like opcode decoding. At 48 bits it gets better as then your not horozontal encoding. Also if you use a prom to do the opcode to microaddress translation it looks nicer and cuts a lot out. Also using the 2901 registers for the PC and all saves a bit too. Still, as you noticed a lof of storage bits for managing traffic are incurred. A combinational state machine is simpler in some respects but far less flexible when it comes to fixing a bent opcode. >> Now that's depressing. ;) >You tell me how I can make $$$ and I will not move to seattle. I can't but, some things still taste bad. ;) Allison

23 years, 12 months

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FDCs (was: MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >Ah, Allison, where have you been all of my life? Ah, right here. >If you would have told me that 15+ years ago, you would have saved me LOTS >of time and effort putting tape over index holes, making cables with >switches to interrupt the index signal, etc. ;) and if you havd called NEC during the '79 to '83 time frame you might have gotten me there. One trick for the short index or late index problem of most 1793 formats is solved by using a oneshot that is a delay of index around 98% of rotation time, once it fired the resulting pulse looks earlier and the index window now has the right time. That makes it easy to wind out the VCO sync delay in the 765. >With a 765, if I want to read a sector from the second side of most Kaypro >disks, I need to feed it a value that matches the WRONG value that's in >the sector header for the H field. With WD, that field can be ignored. Ah yep. I did a two sided to match an oddball that had sectors 1 to 18 on the top and 19 thru 36 on the bottom. no problem. >Raw v formatted track read has advantges and disadvantages. The 765 >approach is very handy for reading a bunch of "normal" sectors. The WD >approach makes it possible to read MFM that does not follow >"normal" sector header standards, such as Amiga, or some TRS-80 address >marks. Yep, then again depends on what your doing too. If you building a data recovery machine a 1793 may be it. Then again you'll need a 1771 too as there were 1771 formats that were unreadable by the DD 1793. If you building a virgin CP/M machine that needs to read a smaller subset of media... 37c65 or later is far cheaper and easier. >Personally, I would have preferred the "raw" approach of the WD, but I >make no claims to be representative of the marketplace. It's only useful for the special cases. For everything else you wnat a track or cylinder without the junk. Allison

23 years, 12 months

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3" FDD free to good home

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

Marked in black felt-pen on the drive: "Amstrad PCW 8256." Cable is attached. Unit is untested and is yours for postage from Orlando FL. Any interest? Glen 0/0

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no t o squirrels & Pascal question)

by cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co

At 03:46 PM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >Allways wanted an SGI INDIGO. >Allways wanted an Atari 1450xld and: >an Atari 815 disk drive >A trak disk drive -snip- I want a CRAY. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@Mac.com] > Humm... but this still won't work for PSX game discs right? > Since they > have a bad checksum, a standard burner can't write them back > out, because > it will correct the checksum? Well, you've answered your own question there. My understanding is that it _is_ the burner that does it. You can copy playstation game discs fine, but it would require a firmware patch to your CD burner. (So I hear...) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

I should add to the list of hard to find stuff early Intergraph workstations. Clipper based, and pre-clipper (were they VAX?) Intergraph systems. I also haven't looked -- but have never seen any DG Nova stuff around. It may be relatively rare. On another note, CDC hardware that wasn't OEM'd from SGI seems relatively uncommon. There's one CDC workstation that was a re-badged Indigo, that's relatively common. It's the only CDC system I've seen for sale. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> > >Having looked at a few other Floppy disk datasheets for the pc, I would >suspect >it needs a 24 Mhz clock. I can divide this by 2 to give me 12 Mhz clock >for the Either some product of 9.6mhz (for the oddball 1.2mb 5.25 floppies) or some product of 16mhz for the 500khz 1.44mb floppy. That is of course for the floppy side interface only. The CPU side is driven by Tacc for the FDC IO ports (4 or 8mhz depending on part and age) and the data rate for read or write since there is no silo on the parts I know of. This will be true for all 765 based FDCs (most of the PC controllers are 765 or 765 core logic). Data rates for 1.44mb floppy are the worst at 13uS first byte and 16uS for the remaining. If DMA is possible do it. If not can the cpu execute a wait state during IO{wait on data ready with the read or write pending}? If neither of those then you have to loop and test status or worse usually, use interrupts. It's possible to find WD FDC drivers around but they will be very machine specific more often than not. Allison

23 years, 12 months

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was "how to clean".. How did they

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Hand made, usually by women working under low power microscopes. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Ron Hudson <rhudson(a)cnonline.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 6:01 PM Subject: was "how to clean".. How did they >or... silly question of the week... > > >Anyone know how core memory was made? > >Did a person string those cores with a needle and >"thread", or was it done by machine? > >

23 years, 12 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I based my statement upon information gleaned from conversations with my >customers, 80% of which are black. Most of them think that Kwanzaa was >"made up" by retailers in order to get their money. Some have told me that >they resent the "social engineering" aspect of Kwanzaa. Here in the South, >there seems to be very little support of or identification with this event >among African-Americans. Oh, you need to come up here, and visit the heavily black neighborhoods of Jersey City (conviently, right where my wife grew up)... there, Kwanzaa is a big deal, and it has NOTHING to do with retailers getting their money. It has everything to do with their not celebrating christmas because that is whitey's holiday, and crackers are the enemy (their terms, not mine... I get "whitey"... I get "white bread"... but cracker?!? I would ask when visiting my inlaws... but I would just get my ass kicked, or worse, shot). As to the REAL reason for Kwanzaa, I have no idea, but I do know, around here it is entirely a racial thing, and the only people that really seem to take it seriously are the inner city high crime area Afican-Americans... which unfortuantly gives the whole thing a bad notion up here. Its a shame really, as I am sure there was a real reason for it, but like many other things, it has been badly perverted by a very very select group of people who decided to use it for their own agenda. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 12 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> > Programmers were, are, and will > always be lazy and impatient. Man alive -- I always knew I was stupid for putting in all those 80-hour weeks, but lazy? And impatient??? Glen 0/0

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! >Same experience here. i've made copies of IRIX CDs, and I've made ! >non-standard bootable distribution CDs. The only unusual ! >feature is that ! >they're an EFS filesystem rather than, say, ISO9660. But as far as a ! >burner is concerned, an image is an image, and as far as ! >Linux's dd command ! >is concerned, the same is true (I've copied Apple CDs the ! >same way, by ! >dd'ing from the raw disk device holding the CD, to a file.). ! ! Humm... but this still won't work for PSX game discs right? ! Since they ! have a bad checksum, a standard burner can't write them back ! out, because ! it will correct the checksum? ! ! What I don't understand is, why can't someone write a program ! that will ! write the back check? I used to have a floppy disk copier for the Mac ! that did something similar. If the source disk was damaged, it would ! write the damaged data to the destination disk (the software ! was SUPPOSED ! to do that, it was to let you duplicate bad disks before ! running things ! like MacTools on it, in case it didn't work, you could dupe ! it again, and ! try something different) ! ! Alas, that software was for back in the "Classic Mac" era, ! and no longer ! runs (nor has any idea how to write to a CD) ! ! -c ! I heard that CloneCD is what you're talking about... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 12 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> Munged >> wacky formats like using deleted address mark for address mark {you can post >> format with deleted data} and it was not designed to pump out all the raw >> bits/splices/marks from the media. >> >What? I do seem to remember that the data fields could be written during >formatting with the WD parts but I don't think anybody ever used that feature, >though it would have been a good/smart feature for software duplication. There >was some confusion about whether it worked properly because the part responded >to some bytes by generating an address mark, though I doubt it did that while >writing the data field. Two differing things. The WD part you could format a disk with Deleted data marks where data marks are normally found. Infact you could put all sorts of odd stuff in strange placesn using WD. The 765 was ucoded to do IBM standard formats so a lot of the who's where is already known and mapped. >> Things it did do that the WD never had: Multiple seeks or recals, timing >> for the stepper, head load delay, head settle delay. >> >Did it do "implied seeks" wherein the controller looked at where it was and then >automatically computed the difference before moving the heads? No, I know of no chip that did. It made for a peice of that. >> The biggest difference: register based programming vs command packet to a >> "port". >> >Back in the '77-'82 period I was probably responsible for the use of 100K >Western chips and it might as well have been decided on a coin toss. I was No it wasn't, the 765 design was introduced in late '79, by then you were locked to WD. >vs packet programming though. Perhaps you could cite an example? The Western >part is certainly register based. Isn't the NEC part also just a register set? Internally the 765 has "registers". However, you feed it via one port addres with a command packet and after the data IO is done you read a status packet of 1-9 bytes based on the command issued. It's obsious when you look at the part, the 765 has A0 for the port addressing (status and command/data) where A0 only has meaning{it's only active during /CS not /DACK) during non-dma ops. >That was an advantage for those who were invested in a software base, but nobody >knew that back in '78-79. What's the 36C766? Google comes up empty. I've seen >some 37C665/666 types, but 36Cnnn? Who made them? Several vendors including SMC and UMC. They were variations of the 765 with rate generators and interface to disk plus IOports (parallel, serial and even IDE). Aimed at PCs they replaced the two serial ports, IDE, FDC and parallel boards. >What's interesting, BTW, is that even Western, with its institutional prejudice >toward analog PLL's went with the 765 core once it went to the fully integrated >all-digital FDC, having dealt with the lower data rates in the 1770/72/73 chips, >which were not shown to be capable of 500 Kbps for some reason. Perhaps there >was some advantage in the 765 core that made it more amenable to integration >with a digital clock extraction circuit at the higher data rate. I doubt that >Intel would have gone for the 765 type if there weren't some manufacturing >advantage inherent in the silicon. That may be what's made the difference. >Intel certainly would have chosen the chip that was more economically >manufacturable, though maybe their primary economy came from the >already-established relationship (which they'd sabotage later) with NEC. The 765 core did the step rate and may of the external things that the 1793 needed external hardware for. The preference for digital data seperation was pushed by NEC as it could be done with a small 32x4 prom and a latch with good reliability compared to the often difficult analog designs. Also digital fits on silicon of the time better. I have a design and samples we did in late '81 to put the floppy side "glue" on one 2500 gate array that allowed for data sep, write pre comp, drive and motor selects and all the other things that would end up on the super chips. The end result was a complete FDC two chip combo that was half the price of discrete 765 or WD 1793 designs with no performance compromizes. It was never marketed for obtuse reasons and less than three years later several vendors were putting 765+glue on one chip. And the d7265 wa the ISO 3.5" tuned version that had a shorter VCO sync time{post index gap time} and a shortend index gap. I believe most of the 765 cores are of the 7265 flavor. The aside to that is that the SMC 9229 was a digital data sep/clock/precomp that worked with both the 765 and 1793 with equal perfomance for all rates. SMC also had a 765 core with analog PLL (9265 or 66) for those that prefered analog. The 1770/2/3 problem was not data seperator in itself but process speed of the die, they{WD} flat out could not do the required 16mhz stuff then for the data sep and the other rate generators. The 1793 with external 9229 works great at 500khz but, the 1793 only has to see something like 2 or 4mhz max and therein lies the difference. Allison

23 years, 12 months

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Warp Connect V3 (was Re: OS/2)

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> disks for the Bonus Pack. OS/2 Warp Connect version 3 (Blue box, > includes DOS/Windows support) is on CD-ROM, as is the Bonus Pack. It > does have two diskettes from which to boot the system for > installation though. Is there a specific disk(s) that you need to > replace for Warp 3? I also have OS/2 for Windows version 2.1. Are the updates still available for this anywhere? For some reason, I'm in the process of building a PP200 up as an OS/2 system and Warp 3 is the newest version I've got. (OK, ok, I admit, I'm building it to play "Galactic Civilizations".) Anyway, I'd kind of like to get it updated to the current patch level or whatever it's called in OS/2 (been way to long since I switched to the Mac from OS/2). Zane

23 years, 12 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Ben Franchuk wrote: > What I wanted was a 12/24 bit CPU I can live with that - 24 bits is really cool from a DSP point of view. 140dB dynamic range and you can do two data moves and one arithmetic op with a 24-bit instruction. The only modern day 24-bitter that I know of is the Motorola DSP56XX family. Great for fixed point ( fractional ) number crunching. > You tell me how I can make $$$ and I will not move to seattle. > Deal? I could move to Antarctica and make linux boxes. Take a > penguin and stuff it in old 386. Stamp exported from 'Finland'.:) I must protest, that's cruelty to penguins. How would you like to be stuffed into a box labeled Intel or worse still Micro... Damn my keyboards locked up. How about stuffing old silicon into FPGA's ? Chris

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 18, 10:56, Christopher Smith wrote: > Well, I've never met a standard CD that it wouldn't work on. I was told > third-hand by somebody who worked for SGI that their media was somehow "copy > protected" and couldn't be reproduced well. > > I've successfully imaged my IRIX 6.2 media and booted/installed my system > from the backup. Works fine. Same experience here. i've made copies of IRIX CDs, and I've made non-standard bootable distribution CDs. The only unusual feature is that they're an EFS filesystem rather than, say, ISO9660. But as far as a burner is concerned, an image is an image, and as far as Linux's dd command is concerned, the same is true (I've copied Apple CDs the same way, by dd'ing from the raw disk device holding the CD, to a file.). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Same experience here. i've made copies of IRIX CDs, and I've made >non-standard bootable distribution CDs. The only unusual feature is that >they're an EFS filesystem rather than, say, ISO9660. But as far as a >burner is concerned, an image is an image, and as far as Linux's dd command >is concerned, the same is true (I've copied Apple CDs the same way, by >dd'ing from the raw disk device holding the CD, to a file.). Humm... but this still won't work for PSX game discs right? Since they have a bad checksum, a standard burner can't write them back out, because it will correct the checksum? What I don't understand is, why can't someone write a program that will write the back check? I used to have a floppy disk copier for the Mac that did something similar. If the source disk was damaged, it would write the damaged data to the destination disk (the software was SUPPOSED to do that, it was to let you duplicate bad disks before running things like MacTools on it, in case it didn't work, you could dupe it again, and try something different) Alas, that software was for back in the "Classic Mac" era, and no longer runs (nor has any idea how to write to a CD) -c

23 years, 12 months

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FDC's (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Try www.dialelec.com, they're UK based and specialize in obsolete silicon. No price given for the WD1773, you'll have to get a quote. They're not too expensive, I recently bought some AM2901CDC's for about 7USD each. Chris

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 18, 10:22, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] > > > There's one CDC workstation that was a re-badged Indigo, that's > > > relatively common. It's the only CDC system I've seen for sale. > > > CDC was rebadging IRIS 3000 machines as Cyber 910s. > > *Really*? What are my chances of finding one? I'd love to have an IRIS > 3000, if I found that I could fit it in the house. :) Did they run the > early versions of IRIX? Um, no, not really. I'm sure a Cyber 910 is a rebadged 4D/35 (or variant, depending on the Cyber suffix), very similar to an Indigo, and much smaller than a 3000. There are plenty of pictures on the web, and references in the 4D FAQ. They'll run IRIX 4 or IRIX 5. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 12 months

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Honkey

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! honky has been around for a long time - my dad was a Chicago ! cop since '55 ! and even when I was little (4 or 5) I've heard him telling ! "war stories" of ! encounters with the people on his beat where they referred to ! white folks as ! "honkies". Interesting. But I'm still curious as to how it got started... ! "hood" is a newer term, but I remember hearing ofay and otay ! on episodes of ! the Little Rascals, from back in the 30's... ! ! "cracker" is a southern version of "honky", never heard it ! until I went to ! texas for basic training. ! ! How in the hell did this list get into racial slang anyway? Well, somehow we got to talking about Kwanzaa.... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 12 months

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FDCs (was: MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >There ARE many things that the WD will do that the NEC won't, including >writing much sooner after the index pulse, IGNORING certain fields in the 765A writes or read sonner than base 765 and the 37c65 even shorter. It doesnt ignore fields in a multisector read/write however if the sectors are written with a interleave it will also keep things in numerical order. Add to that a full cylinder read does not bring all the non data crap that formatted media requires to marks all the data spaces. The real beauty of that is if you have real DMA you can fire it up and read a whole cylinder and all your buffer has is neatly ordered data if the read was successful. That latter feature is nice if your doing a caching scheme. >Allison could probably gives us a more comprehensive and authoritative >list. Yes I can. Allison

23 years, 12 months

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New Finds

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Today I found the following: > > 1) IBM PS/2 P70 Portable with Xenix386 loaded. Does anyone know > how to bypass the root password so I can log in? Is it Xenix or AIX? I know IBM had a version of AIX that ran on these. Or was it just that funky Microkernel OS/2 thing running on one of these with AIX running at the same time? I know I saw that at a trade show once in DC, that was cool! Zane

23 years, 12 months

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Kwanzaa... [was: Troll got me (was: Is there no end)]

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! ... whitey's holiday, and crackers are the enemy (their ! terms, not mine... I get "whitey"... I get "white bread"... but ! cracker?!? I would ask when visiting my inlaws... but I would ! just get my ass kicked, or worse, shot). Chris - Now, I'm a honkey (now what's the origin of that?) just like you... (like you couldn't tell by the name! :-) I think the term "cracker" is because, ISTR, crackers and bread made basically the same, except crackers don't have any yeast. Both light colored... ! As to the REAL reason for Kwanzaa, I have no idea, but I do ! know, around here it is entirely a racial thing, and the ! only people that really seem to take it seriously are the ! inner city high crime area Afican-Americans... which ! unfortuantly gives the whole thing a bad notion up here. Its ! a shame really, as I am sure there was a real reason for it, ! but like many other things, it has been badly perverted by a ! very very select group of people who decided to use it for ! their own agenda. What's that cliche saying? "One bad apple to spoil..." --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 12 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> that will do 125ns easily. Or you could easily find a d765 >> off an old board or NOS from JDR. >Do you know of a WD37C65 data sheet on the web? Check SMC for it. >> parts and the requisite connections. Of the latter, the fewer the >> better for both buildability and reliability. >Hmm what ever happened to sockets and repairable stuff. I hate sockets and try to avoid them, I've had equipment that didn't use the machined pin sockets and most all had to be rebuilt sans sockets at one point or another. > >> package = $1.35. So instead of Xilinx's $4.40 OTP chip we use a 8 pin PIC >> and the serial EEPROM for a total of $2.29 and get re-programmability... > >A good solution but this is a one-shot project so price is not a major >problem A lousy one if you have a raft of TTL and few FPGAs. ;) I have a few of the Lattice and Xilinx tools, older ones and the synario stuff too. I just dont get all that excited about it. I've designed a cpu and built it years ago, it out of my system and not worth repeating. Any cpu I'd do would need software and that means it would likely be a copy of something... likely something I have. Allison

23 years, 12 months

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Fw: Old Atari ?

by curt＠atari-history.com

This gentleman has Atari & Commodore systems in Iowa that are available, someone please give them a good home and not make his equipment into epay.com fodder.... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: <brodtm(a)msnotes.wustl.edu> To: <curt(a)atari-history.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:44 AM Subject: Old Atari ? > Curt, > > I have tried searching the web but with no luck. My mother has my old > Atari800 and Comodore systems. They are currently taking up space in her > house, and we do not want them. We would like to either recycle them or > give them to someone who is interested in them. > > She is currently located in NE Iowa. Would you by chance know of > anyone who would be interested in these systems? I hate to just pitch > them. > > Thanks, > > Michael Brodt > St. Louis, MO > brodtm(a)msnotes.wustl.edu >

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] > > workstations. Clipper based, and pre-clipper (were they > VAX?) Intergraph > > systems. > The early big servers were VAX based. In fact, they were mostly just > rebadged. RCS/RI has an Intergraph VAX 8550. It has some > really strange > custom hardware in the disk controllers - something about > these things > could do searches thru files on the disks for specific > graphics entities > (for CAD) without bothering the processor. Odd. "Really-strange-custom-hardware" was Intergraph's middle name for the longest time. That's what makes their systems so interesting. > > There's one CDC workstation that was a re-badged Indigo, that's > > relatively common. It's the only CDC system I've seen for sale. > CDC was rebadging IRIS 3000 machines as Cyber 910s. *Really*? What are my chances of finding one? I'd love to have an IRIS 3000, if I found that I could fit it in the house. :) Did they run the early versions of IRIX? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > I'm pretty sure I have a copy of Warp 4 Server, if I can find it. I'll > look this weekend. ISTR, though, hearing that the OS/2 CDs don't image > well. Does anybody know whether that's true? I maintain that a > byte-for-byte dd will work on *anything*. Very Slowly. :) Well, I've never met a standard CD that it wouldn't work on. I was told third-hand by somebody who worked for SGI that their media was somehow "copy protected" and couldn't be reproduced well. I've successfully imaged my IRIX 6.2 media and booted/installed my system >from the backup. Works fine. Also have done VMS, Solaris, and one of the "extras" disks that goes with AIX. All of them worked fine. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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was "how to clean".. How did they

by gehrich＠tampabay.rr.com

At 04:28 AM 12/18/01 -0500, you wrote: >Actually, for manufacturing operators, in IBM, women on average make more >than men. I don't know if it has changed but when I was with IBM they paid for performance in manufacturing. Those who contributed the most were paid the most. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene(a)ehrich.com gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale I accept PayPal To subscribe to automatic updates send a blank e-mail to: online-garage-sale-subscribe(a)yahoogroups.com

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

More office cleanout finds: I salvaged a new, shrink-wrapped copy of OS/2 Warp Version 3, Red label (needs a separated copy of DOS/Windows), 3.5" disks. I'm offering it free for postage (5 pounds) or pickup in the Chicago Loop. Email me at robert_feldman(a)jdedwards.com. I will decide among multiple requests next week (after Christmas holidays). Bob

23 years, 12 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I based my statement upon information gleaned from conversations with my > customers, 80% of which are black. Most of them think that Kwanzaa was > "made up" by retailers in order to get their money. Some have told me that > they resent the "social engineering" aspect of Kwanzaa. Here in the South, > there seems to be very little support of or identification with this event > among African-Americans. Doubtlessly true; I've heard some people say the same thing about Christmas. > > January 1 was "made up" into New Years Day by an act of > > fiat; New Years Day used to be April 1. > > When and how did this happen? Actually, there was no "act", that was hyperbole. The earliest reference to a Januray 1 New Year I can find is the Roman Civil Year. Later, the Catholic Church, which liked to line up the calendar with its Holy Events, wanted sto see Christmas become the start of the new year. But some later winter/early spring feasts were a popular time for the people, so through much of the dark ages, April 1 was the start of the New year. When the establishment of the Gregorian Calnedar began to take hold (which moved New Year's Day officially to Jan 1), people foolish enought to still celebrate it on April 1 became known as "April's Fools". The Gregorian Calendar was adopted tt different times in different countries; I think Russia held out until the early 20th Centurt. See http://www.genfair.com/dates.htm for more info. Regards, -dq

23 years, 12 months

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Paper Tape Fun

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I recently acquired (out of desperation) a DSI paper > tape punch/reader on ePay (at a reasonable price, but > not guaranteed to work). I cleaned it up, oiled it > here and there, and after puzzling out the RS-232, got > it running punching Mylar fine. To test it, I wrote a > Windows program to test it out with; the program lets > you type in a phrase, looks up the ASCII, and prints > the letters out on the tape in a 7x5 matrix format, > upper and lower case. I'm pretty sure that there were > programs that ran on mainframes to do this sort of > thing. Useless, but kind of fun - I made a banner for > my museum with it. If anyone on this list has a > punch, and admits to using Windows, ha ha, I can make > this available. On the CDC 6600, we had a Model 415 High-Speed Paper Tape Reader/Punch. We had a locally-created control card we'd use to control the disposition of output. In the standard KRONOS system, it was DISPOSE, but we had so many devices spread out over so many campuses that we wrote a card we called ROUTE. Among other tasks, ROUTE provided the banner pages for print jobs. A standard feature of the banner was the job name, usually, your three initials plus a job ordinal. When you'd sent output to the tape punch, it would punch the job name at the start of the tape, in the manner you describe. Regards, -dq

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On another note, CDC hardware that wasn't OEM'd from SGI seems relatively > uncommon. There's one CDC workstation that was a re-badged Indigo, that's > relatively common. It's the only CDC system I've seen for sale. Fascinating... and of the CDC hardware I've seen for sale, I've never seen anything that CDC didn't build themselves. But then, all I've seen was 60s & 70s era stuff... -dq

23 years, 12 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Why on earth would Sun put a cool set of leds UNDERNEATH the cover? I mean, > you might as well put it out there. Apollo did this, too, but had cute little hinged doors covering the LEDs' most everyone leaves them open, because one LED is flashed by the system once per second, and is called "The Heartbeat". The Prime 2455 has four LEDs on its virtual control panel board, three red and one green. No one I can find has a clue what they all indicate... -dq

23 years, 12 months

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Static was Re: [PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by mranalog＠attbi.com

Matthew Sell <msell(a)ontimesupport.com> wrote: > Vacuum cleaning is much more "dangerous" for a PCB than washing it. > Pete made a very good point, one I had forgotten, the static charge created > by dust moving through an insulated (plastic) pipe can generate some > obscene voltages. This is not a problem with a little bit of planning. One of my other hobbies is woodworking. Breathing in the sawdust from many hardwoods is very unhealthy, so most well financed wood shops have some kind of dust collection systems. With flow rates of 200-1100 cfm and long runs of plastic hose, a dust collector plus sawdust can be an explosive situation. Thats why grounding kit are sold separatly or included with most dust collectors. These kits consist of a lenth of wire that runs down the hose and metal clamps to clamp the wire to the hose at regular intervals. These kits are available in most woodworking stores. Of course my favorite way to protect a circuit board from static is to cover the solder side with aluminum foil, lay it on conductive foam or a conductive plastic bag. On a different subject: I've also used aluminum foil to create a ground plane to cut down on noise on some extender boards. I take two pieces of cardboard the size of the PCB and wrap one with aluminum foil. After making sure that none of the solder joints will poke through the bare piece of cardboard, I make a sandwich of the solder side of the PCB, the bare piece of cardboard, and then the aluminum wrapped cardboard. With this taped to the PCB, I solder a wire >from the aluminum foil to ground on the PCB. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =========================================

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: 17 December 2001 21:43 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers > > > The Digital Group systems get my vote. I've only *heard* of about 3, > > since being on this list, which is a while. Maybe because no-one is > > looking? I can't even imagine finding a full-up system, with several > > CPU boards, Phi-deck tape drives, and matching cabinets for the > > monitor, system unit, and tape drives, not to mention all > the OS's and > > other software... well, maybe I can imagine it... > > Yep, I'd agree here too. I have one complete system, and > aside from that, > the only other one I've ever seen was a kit sold at VCF 2.0 (or was it > 3.0)? > Dammit - I was offered a Digital Group machine earlier this year and the only thing that stopped me was the horrendous shipping cost from the US. This thing had the (in)famous tape unit attached that contained either 4 or 6 drives; can't remember. I've still got the pix of it somewhere, and it also spurred me on to do some digging with the result of finding Gus Calabrese who was the founder (or one of them) of TDG in the first place...... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

23 years, 12 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> My Vaxstation 4000/60 has an 8 (or so) red led that also > posts codes at > power on but nothing else in either vms or in netbsd. A number of years ago, someone wrote a utility for OpenVMS that would display a CPU load on the seven segment LED of a MicroVAX II 9or MicroVAX 3600 series, I forget). Assuming you can find it, hacking it to do the VS4000-60/VS4000-9x LEDs should not be too much of a stretch. Antonio

23 years, 12 months

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My Last Day Of Finds in MN

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I spent most of today checking out most of my favorite places and found few goodies to take back to Texas. A lot of it is too new to list here but at the low prices I could not pass the items up. I picked a April 1985 issue of COMPUTE! with pictures and a article on a Commodore LCD called a second-generation lap portable with 80 x 16 flip-up display, 32K RAM, internal modem, and eight built-in programs for under $600. Has anyone every seen one in real life or better yet does anyone own one? It looks pretty cool in the photo shown in the mag. Some of the other items are listed below. 1. ICD printer connector cable for Atari 850 new in unopened package 2. Tandy cat#26-1398 6' RS232C cable new unopened package 3. Commodore Model 1351 mouse 4. Several Sega Master System cartridges 5. Compute! March 1985 issue some good stuff in it also. 6. Several mousepads for the collection 7. A RAD robot 8. A nice book called Understanding Computers by Grace Murray Hopper 9. Some Apple and Toshiba technical manuals 10. Tele-games Video Arcade (Sears) with 2- controllers and 2- paddles, also came with 3 cartridges 11. A NeXT keyboard (pn 2122) and mouse (pn 193), the mouse was a style I had not seen before. Well that's all I can list as the others are not classic yet. Keep Computing

23 years, 12 months

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Shall I open it, or does someone want it....

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

I have December 1967 inCider, still wrapped in it's plastic bag. I wonder if anyone is collecting magazines and would find this more collectable because it still has the plastic. I just want to read inCiders, especially those with articles about the pre-GS apple II machines. Anyone wanna trade me? Anyone got inCider or nibble magazines they want to get rid of? I am in the San Jose, CA area- we can arrange to meet.

23 years, 12 months

4
3
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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

8251 was an OK chip, it had bugs, FYI there are three versions and each has it's oddities! I have tons of them and use them but, you do have to be aware of the oddities. The worst ones are initial programming after reset (buffer clear bug) and the repeats last character on /cts false if TX shifter is not empty (8251A). However the 2SIO didn't use it. NS* did use them as did many others. The worst chip was the 8250. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 12:29 PM Subject: RE: MITS 2SIO serial chip? >> > Does anyone know what chip was used for the MITS serial boards? I thought >> > that it was the 6850, but I could be wrong. >> >> Weren't a lot of people using the 8251 back in those days? >> >> I had to play some tricks in getting an interrupt-driver >> written for the 8251... this was for the redoubtable >> Data General One, a sort cool, sorta nasty laptop... >> >> -dq > >I always thought the 8251 was a pretty kick-ass chip. I learned a lot >about it since the Royal Alphatronic PC that I've got (somewhere in this >disaster of mine) uses it. I was pleasantly surprised a number of years >ago when I discovered someone had made a BYE insert for it. :) > >g. > >

23 years, 12 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> rebuilt sans sockets at one point or another. >In this case I plan to use good sockets. >> A lousy one if you have a raft of TTL and few FPGAs. ;) > >All the TTL is in the FPGA.:) >Most of the TTL used is simple buffering or decoding. Ah, don'tcha think I know that? ;) Then again I have enough loose TTL to make a 24bit stretch PDP-8 with two sets of spares and a full compliment of IO. I've done my stint as a hardware designer analog DC to UHF and digital. >The whole point of the cpu I designed, was because I am not happy >with 8 bit micro's, RISC machines, or INTEL. Now what I wonder about >is people that put a 6502 in a FPGA while you still can buy the real >thing? >I also wonder about FPGA's when you can't fit a 6502 in one! Use a bigger FPGA... Thats why hammers come from small 4oz all the way to to 10 pounds! >I can guarantee you don't have a 12/24 bit cpu like mine. ( Not that you >would want one :) ) Been there done that. Mine was 2901 based Z80 clone with hybrid uCode wide bus and extented instruction set... Still didnt run any thing useful on it, too big, too hot and far to weird. It was a good learning tool depite all that. Allison

23 years, 12 months

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DEC Cable?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

I've got two cables here, DEC p/n BCC17-06 and one with out a p/n, but looks like a DEC cable. Any ideas who/what they're for? And can one of them replace the mono video cable on my VAX Station 3100 (BC23K-03)? DEC p/n BCC17-06: 15 pin D-sub connector <--> a box with a DEC keyboard connector (the phone plug looking thing), and/then 3 BNC (r,g,b) Un-marked: 15 pin D-sub connector <--> box with PS-2 keyboard and mouse connectors, then 3 BNC connectors (r,g,b) - this was included in the shopping bag that came with my DEC 3000-400, but this doesn't go with it. The PMAGB-B video adaptor in slot 0 has the 3W3 (?) video connector... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 12 months

3
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"Geeks" and licensing

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com> > I'm not saying that to get an entry level job in the field you should need > to know the machine architecture like the back of your hand, but you should > at least know the basics and be willing to learn the rest. The operative term here being "willing to learn the rest." Too many degree-holders which I've met seem to believe that they "know it all" and don't need to learn any more than they already know. As a consequence, they ask the same questions again and again. I'm of the old school -- don't go to your boss with a problem, go to your boss with a *solution.* I make it a point to learn *something* every day. Keeps my brain from drying out . . . Glen 0/0

23 years, 12 months

1
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TI Calc and PS/1 printer

by mythtech＠Mac.com

I finally got a chance to get to the new thrift store that opened near me (Salvation Army). I got a good deal on a 28.8 external Mac modem (needed one for my nephew, 56k would have been nicer, but for $1 I can't argue). While I was there, I saw two items that might be of interest to some of you. 1: Texas Instruments calculator "Standard Business Analyst" in a wallet case with a small guide book. They want $8 for it. 2: IBM PS/1 printer (dot matrix it looked like, but I didn't crouch down to really check it out). They want $20 IIRC. I will be going back there in a few days to see what the price is on an Apple Thermal Transfer Printer (I have never heard of such a beast, but since it carries a DB25 connector, I assume it is Apple II series stuff, platinum, so it is later II). It didn't have a price tag on it, and it seems they have a policy that when something has no tag, they remove it >from inventory to be retagged and put back out on an unspecified day (I guess to keep people from pulling tags to try to get things cheaper). If anyone has an interest in the calculator or IBM printer (or the Apple one, but specify what your max price for it is... I myself won't pay more than $10), I can pick them up when I go back (and for the apple printer, if they want more than $10 but less than someone else's max, I can pick it up for them). Let me know -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 12 months

1
0
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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >won't support, and that's formatting with interleaving. The NEC parts seem to >be unable to format a diskette with other than strict ordinal sector numbering, Obviously you know not how the part works. I used to put sectors down on floppies with physical skew for CPM using 765/9266/37C65. It was dirt simple. When the 765 and clones write they want CHRN, All you need to do is make R the sector number what ever you want it to be then feed it to the FDC when doing a format track. What's difficult about that? Allison

23 years, 12 months

2
1
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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

A newer chip that can still be found is the WD37C65 that will do 125ns easily. Or you could easily find a d765 off an old board or NOS from JDR. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 5:55 PM Subject: Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip? >If you must know it is a floppy disk controller I need. Right now >I plan to use WD2797 floppy disk controller. I would love to use >a newer chip,but I can't find any! I want to stay with DIP's and PLCC's >here. This may be the 21 century but my soldering skills are the 19'th. >I still favor the simple dumb uart chip. TR1602?. I like things than >you hit reset, it starts ... not like the classic star-trek computers that >always go down. Usually when you need them. It's an OK part but you could use the 8251 with fewer supporting parts and two less voltages (com2502 is single voltage). I've built enough to enjoy later parts as I'm old enough to want it done in a lifetime and the older parts meant tons more support parts and the requisite connections. Of the latter, the fewer the better for both buildability and reliability. Allison

23 years, 12 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> > The difference between "real" holidays and "made up" Holidays > seems to be: if the Holiday was "made up" before you were born, > then it's real (like Mother's Day, which was instituted by > President Woodrow Wilson); if it was made up in your lifetime, > then it's "not real, just made up." I based my statement upon information gleaned from conversations with my customers, 80% of which are black. Most of them think that Kwanzaa was "made up" by retailers in order to get their money. Some have told me that they resent the "social engineering" aspect of Kwanzaa. Here in the South, there seems to be very little support of or identification with this event among African-Americans. > January 1 was "made up" into New Years Day by an act of > fiat; New Years Day used to be April 1. When and how did this happen? > I believe "Father's Day" was "made up" in the 50s... > I hope the pattern is clear... Kwanzaa is as valid > a Holiday as any. For those who celebrate it, I'm sure this is true. It's just that I haven't met many of them . . . Glen 0/0

23 years, 12 months

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AltairDOS information

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Hi: I'm preparing for the 2.1 release of the Altair32 Emulator and am finishing up the help files. I have manuals for Microsoft BASIC and CP/M 2.2 but I have nothing on Altair DOS. Does anyone have a copy of this manual either in physical or electronic form that I can have? Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile)

23 years, 12 months

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Waaay UT (undertopic): W9x Thumbnail association.

by allain＠panix.com

This is pretty bad, but somewhat important right now. Anybody know how to associate .jpg files to the IE thumbnail viewer (mini previews) in W98? I don't want to embarrass anyone so you can contact me off list. Its bad enough I have to admit using it. John A.

23 years, 12 months

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was "how to clean".. How did they

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

In reality it was far different than that. Women would work for lower wage than men doing a tedious task that was fairly skill intensive. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman <rhblakeman(a)kih.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: RE: was "how to clean".. How did they >Not to be sexist or rude but I think that women have a better tolerance for >boring tedious work while sitting on their butts for long periods of time. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail >Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:25 PM >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: was "how to clean".. How did they > > >On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >> Hand made, usually by women working under low power microscopes. > >And they had women doing the work because they apparently are better >at working with their hands (i.e. needlework). > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- >-- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > >

23 years, 12 months

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testing - please ignore

by west＠tseinc.com

More work *sigh*

23 years, 12 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 19:49, Matt London wrote: > >From what I've noticed, the SparcStation 1 flashes it's power LED when > doing a selftest, but I'm not near the box, so I can't check :&) > > And as Jeff said - Amigas flash the power LED. So they do. I should have remembered that, since I have one of each in this room! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 12 months

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mail list cleanup - please ignore

by west＠tseinc.com

Trying to get rid of a bunch of invalid email addresses in the list. Please ignore this message Jay West

23 years, 12 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 18, 0:07, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Domestic ones I've seen won't. Apart from the soaking -- that's the point > > of using it, obviously. Very few things are intolerant: some relays, > > transformers, a few types of switches, etc, usually just because they take > > too long to dry out. And core mats, of course, because they're very > > fragile and extremely hard to repair. > > Don't forget old transformers, which often use something looking very much > like paper for isolation. Agreed. That's why my PDP-8/E's H740 power supply got a different treatment. It still got washed, though. > > > Grab a bottle of isopropanol, some swabs, and start working. > > > > Doesn't work well on smoke-damaged boards, Coke, etc, and water is far > > cheaper and safer (for the user, too). > > It works, but it requires more work. It doesn't work very well. It's almost impossible to get all the crud out >from under ICs, DIL switches, or sockets. IPA does not do a good job on smoke-damaged boards. > > TTL may be > > much less sensitive than old CMOS and even modern CMOS and TTL > > replacements, but it is still sensitive and can be damaged by ESD. It's > > not so likely to be damaged when soldered into a complete circuit, but it's > > possible. I've had at least two QBus boards damaged by ESD through > > careless handling. > > Eh? Q-bus cards, even the oldest you can find, are LSI stuff. You won't > find much of anything even *that* modern in a PDP-8. Actually, much Q-bus > stuff is really modern compared to what I'm thinking of... Plenty of QBus cards use TTL, basic 74 series, not just LS. I just pulled a few out to check. In the faulty ones I referred to, it was some TTL PROMs in one of them that had gone (lost several bits), and I can't remember what was wrong with the other one. Nevertheless, even original 74 series TTL is static-sensitive, and the worst part is that things can be degraded by ESD without failing completely. That's why modern circuits include extra ESD protection. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 12 months

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More Great Re-finds During move

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today I really got lucky and found some items I had been looking for such the NeXT megapixel display model N4000B for the NeXT cube I have yet to test and others that I had forgot that I had. The others are listed below: 2. CPT 8535 with dual 8" drives 3. HP 87 4. hp 140A scope 5. ALTOS 686 6. digital Micro PDP-11 tower 7. IBM 5110 8. Monroe 326 Scientist with Monroe 392 cassette, manual (marked Beta), and a nice black carrying case 9. CPT 9000 tower (good for parts only) 10. CPT SRS 45 (2 of them) 11. TeleVideo model 910 terminal 12. HP150 with built-in printer 13. IBM type 4055 terminal 14. UNISYS terminal could not find a model number on it I loaded a few of the finds in front of the truck to bring home to play with. That's it for now. Keep computing

23 years, 12 months

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Burroughs - any information?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:26 PM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > >> Was not Burroughs and a few other companies noted for destroying all old >> equipment >> and leasing only? > >Yes. No necessarily. I used to work for Burroughs in Roanoke, Va and we just pushed the old machines out to the dumpster. We never pulled any parts or anything so they were complete. I was amazed to discover this when I started work there and I asked if it was ok to pull parts and they said yes. I looted the first few machines but soon had all the parts I wanted so the rest escaped untouched. Burroughs usually rented machines but I know they did sell atleast some of them. But their repair, updates and other service costs were so expensive that I doubt anyone other than US Government agencies were foolish enough to buy the machine and pay cash for service. Joe

23 years, 12 months

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Warp Connect V3 (was Re: OS/2)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/17/01 7:15:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, louiss(a)gate.net writes: << You can patch Warp 3 up to its final Fixpack (40) from IBM's OS/2 support site. The latest version of OS/2 (which is still supported and updated) is 4.5. It is available only by subscription from IBM, or it has also been incorporated into a retail version by a third party called ECom Station, which you can find out about at their website. Warp 4.5 is much better than any version of Windows. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the level of hardware or software support, of course. Louis >> The best way to update OS/2 is to find the WarpUp cd that was made by indelible blue. Unfortunately, they are out of business. I use it on my OS/2 systems and its pretty much automated although the java install takes hours for some reason. I'm not sure who has taken over the warpup project now. If someone is looking for it perhaps I can help.... easy networking with OS/2 <revisions for win2k and xp coming soon> www.nothingtodo.org/easyos2.htm

23 years, 12 months

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FLUKE?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I worked for FLUKE in the early 1980's, at their Burbank repair facility, in Burbank Ca (where I also lived). The FLUKE 1720 and 1722 machines did not use 8" floppy drives, they used 5.25" floppies, with optional bubble memory and Winchester (using a GPIB interface). There are only three kinds of system that FLUKE made that utilized (or could have utilized) 8" floppies: 1. FLUKE 3040/3050/3053 series board testers. These are of some interest, because it's the only application I ever saw that used the PACE microprocessor. These things are about the size and shape of an upright piano (and just as heavy). The 'upright' part was covered mit swicthen und blinkenlites. The computer was in a cardcage bolted to the underside of the table, which also helld the 8" drives. They made this cool, low pitched WAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAH! AAAH! AAAH! AAAH! sound when booting. 2. FLUKE 3200 Manufacturing Fault Analyzer. These were largely used to test bare boards and wire harnesses. These are particularly interesting not only because they used 8" floppies, but they used an off-the-shelf computer made by ONTEL. It ran a hacked-up version of CP/M, and was programmed in ATLAS. This beast had *no* blinkenlites. 3. FLUKE 'Terminal/10' analog test system. The T/10 was already old when it was moved to the back of the 1981 FLUKE Catalog. It was an ATE system aimed at analog device testing. It was controlled by a PDP-11 (need I say more?). I think it ran a hacked-up version of RT-11 (but I'm not certain). I've never seen one of these. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

23 years, 12 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Robertson [mailto:steven_j_robertson@hotmail.com] > 3.) The explosion of the Internet has brought a lot of people > into the > software development arena that should be in other > professions. In recent > years, anyone that knew a language's syntax could get a job > as a developer. > "Knowing the syntax does not a developer make". Hmmm... That > could be my new > sig file :-) I agree completely, but since you raise such a good point, what would you say _does_ make one a "developer?" Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com> > (To whit: I worked at one point with a guy who was convinced that every > operating system in the world was derived in some manner from MS-DOS. Yes, > that includes the Macintosh operating system too. "CP/M? What's that? > Unix is based on MS-DOS, right?" The guy was a "programmer.") (gag, puke) Well, most of us (except for Tony) have areas that we are not expert in, or even familiar with. The problem with the fellow you refer to is 1 -- The person who hired him. That person should be disposed of in the most painful way possible. 2 -- The institution which granted him a degree (if any). I've also had to work alongside people who managed to scrape their way into a "programming" job without having "what it takes" to really write code *and* solve problems. Don't get me wrong -- I have no degree and don't think one's required to be a competent analyst/programmer/whatever. But . . . Should programmers be licensed? Sure makes me wonder . . . Glen 00

23 years, 12 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 9:30, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > They wash them yes. They *don't* put them in a dishwasher. There is a > hughe difference. I know some who do... Anyway, if the dishwasher doesn't use a hot air drying cycle, there's little difference. > > Yes, a certain amount of care is required, and certain > > things can't tolerate being soaked or being too hot or given too much > > mechanical agitation (stress). > > Which all are things I suspect a normal dishwasher might do. Domestic ones I've seen won't. Apart from the soaking -- that's the point of using it, obviously. Very few things are intolerant: some relays, transformers, a few types of switches, etc, usually just because they take too long to dry out. And core mats, of course, because they're very fragile and extremely hard to repair. > > But how would you deal with a piece of > > equipment that was smoke damaged or had been left in the rain or had fallen > > in a river or had been infested with vermin or had a can of Coke spilled in > > it? I've had to deal with all of those and more over the last two decades, > > and washing is the only way. > > Grab a bottle of isopropanol, some swabs, and start working. Doesn't work well on smoke-damaged boards, Coke, etc, and water is far cheaper and safer (for the user, too). > ESD should never be ignored, but in the case of computer from the 60s and > 70s, ESD is really not an issue. We don't have CMOS, we have old style MSI > TTL here... It is not ESD sensitive. I think you'll find most experts disagree with you there :-) TTL may be much less sensitive than old CMOS and even modern CMOS and TTL replacements, but it is still sensitive and can be damaged by ESD. It's not so likely to be damaged when soldered into a complete circuit, but it's possible. I've had at least two QBus boards damaged by ESD through careless handling. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 12 months

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P5020 keyboard

by hofmanwb＠worldonline.nl

I recently found a Philips P5020 without a keyboard. Is there anybody with a spare keyboard he could part from? Or alternatively is there any way I could adapt an existing keyboard to the P5020? I live in Arnhem, The Netherlands Thank in advance Wim

23 years, 12 months

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New Finds

by dittman＠dittman.net

Today I found the following: 1) IBM PS/2 P70 Portable with Xenix386 loaded. Does anyone know how to bypass the root password so I can log in? 2) A DEC BC56H SCSI cable. I have enough, but since this is a little hard to find, I bought it to pass on to anyone on the list that needs it. 3) An Apple board with part number 077-0219-A. This has two 9-pin connectors, one labeled "TO MOUSE UNIT" and the other labeled "TO MOUSE CONN.". There's a 25-pin connector labeled "TO SCSI CONN.". The date on the board is 1985. Since the board only cost $1, I figured I'd better grab it before it was tossed. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat > > version-dependant. It's for a new install. > > Dang! Lucky bum! I'm green with envy! ;-) -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 12 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> > For a little bit of on-topic goodness, what is the group's opinion on > > the trend of software engineering quality starting from ancient times? > > Have we improved (practially, not academically) or worsened? > >I think it's about stayed the same. Programmers were, are, and will >always be lazy and impatient. > >If you look at Microsoft code excluisvely, one could make a good argument >that we've worsened considerably. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org As a software quality professional involved in the industry for nearly 30 years, I would contend that the quality of software is far worse today than previously. I think this has come about for several reasons. 1.) The tools the developers use to create software has made it "acceptible" to take shortcuts in the documentation, design, and testing of software. When I first started in engineering, every project was completely documented and desk checked BEFORE any code was written. While best practices indicates this is the correct way to engineer any project, cost was the real driving force for this methodology. When you had to punch cards, and schedule time on a mainframe to compile an application, it was easy to see the cost savings in doing it right the first time. If a programmer (they weren't called developers back then) wrote an application and it bombed, it could be several days before the code would be recompiled. The costs in doing that were pretty obvious and management simply would not allow a programmer to write code until everything else was complete. In todays environment, a developer can compile the application on their workstation in a matter of seconds. You can make a code change, compile the application, and test a module in just a few seconds. While that sounds like an effective way to work, those shortcuts lead to an overall lack of quality. Most developers where I currently work, write the code first then create documentation that reflects the way their software works. Worst of all, uninformed management believes this is the most efficient way to create software. 2.) The current business environment places tremendous value on being the "first to market". This is true even if the software is completely non-functional. As long as you release it before your competitors, you've got an advantage. Even if it doesn't work! 3.) The explosion of the Internet has brought a lot of people into the software development arena that should be in other professions. In recent years, anyone that knew a language's syntax could get a job as a developer. "Knowing the syntax does not a developer make". Hmmm... That could be my new sig file :-) 4.) Lower user expectations. My $.02 SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

23 years, 12 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 10:41, Matthew Sell wrote: > Vacuum cleaning is much more "dangerous" for a PCB than washing it. > > Pete made a very good point, one I had forgotten, the static charge created > by dust moving through an insulated (plastic) pipe can generate some > obscene voltages. > > Remember the old science experiment involving the comb generating static > electricity? That voltage is enough to wipe nearly the entire board. Of course, one has to be realistic about all this. Vacuuming a PCB with the aid of a soft paintbrush isn't likly to do much harm if the vacuum nozzle is metal and you're holding it and you're grounded, because the static on the nozzle is unlikely to build up to excessive levels. > Remember the old science experiment involving the comb generating static > electricity? That voltage is enough to wipe nearly the entire board. > > Like I said before, don't take my word for it. Take an old, dirty board > that you know works, and run it through the dishwasher. Dot use the plate > warmer or drying functions. At the end of the cycle, remove it, shake it > off, and allow it to dry for several days (hang it up). Plug it back in - > it'll work. > > And it'll look nearly new..... > > > - Matt -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 12 months

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OS/2

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat > version-dependant. It's for a new install. Dang! Lucky bum! I'm green with envy! Zane

23 years, 12 months

1
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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Jeff Hellige wrote: > OS/2 Warp 3 (red box, Windows support requires existing > Windows installation) is 27 disks for OS/2 plus an additional 14 > disks for the Bonus Pack. OS/2 Warp Connect version 3 (Blue box, > includes DOS/Windows support) is on CD-ROM, as is the Bonus Pack. It > does have two diskettes from which to boot the system for > installation though. Is there a specific disk(s) that you need to > replace for Warp 3? I also have OS/2 for Windows version 2.1. Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat version-dependant. It's for a new install. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 12 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Goodwin [mailto:acme_ent@bellsouth.net] > even familiar with. The problem with the fellow you refer to is > 1 -- The person who hired him. That person should be > disposed of in the > most painful way possible. Yep. Stupid (and/or ignorant) people in positions of power. Common, but regrettable. > 2 -- The institution which granted him a degree (if any). See my comment regarding #1. It applies here too. :) > I've also had to work alongside people who managed to scrape > their way into > a "programming" job without having "what it takes" to really > write code > *and* solve problems. Don't get me wrong -- I have no degree > and don't > think one's required to be a competent analyst/programmer/whatever. My opinion too. In fact, I haven't got a degree yet, myself. I do plan on eventually getting one, but it seems to me that most of the first three years of any degree program (even some two-year degrees ;) are filler, and there's only about a year (or less) of actual learning in there. I expect the amount of actual learning you'd have to do will also decrease with field-experience, so I'm not in a big hurry to acquire a sheet of paper. I do believe that at least some parts of any degree program could teach me something, though. The only question is whether it's something I wouldn't learn on my own. I do happen to be more pro-active about learning than most people. > But . . . > Should programmers be licensed? Sure makes me wonder . . . Depending on the license it may not be a bad idea ;) Really, though, I think that programmers shouldn't need to be licensed. Maybe managers should be licensed instead? Back to the problem with the programmer, though, I see this particular thing too much. There's an intense lack of fundamental understanding in most people who work with computers, and it really disgusts me. To use this as a specific example, this guy knew how to write some (really convoluted) stuff that the c++ compiler would accept, but had no real understanding of how or why any of it worked (or not.. ;) I'm not saying that to get an entry level job in the field you should need to know the machine architecture like the back of your hand, but you should at least know the basics and be willing to learn the rest. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 12 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Douglas Q. wrote: >Ok, we've had threads similar to this one before, but >maybe not quite... > >What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? The Digital Group systems get my vote. I've only *heard* of about 3, since being on this list, which is a while. Maybe because no-one is looking? I can't even imagine finding a full-up system, with several CPU boards, Phi-deck tape drives, and matching cabinets for the monitor, system unit, and tape drives, not to mention all the OS's and other software... well, maybe I can imagine it... >Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: > > Systems you most of all want oops. But maybe there is some overlap? - Mark

23 years, 12 months

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