- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I've located 35 disks. Do you want them? -----Original Message----- From: Golemancd(a)aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 6:07 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: 720k floppy anyone know where i can find some 720k floppies thanks Joee

23 years, 11 months

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Old issues of MacWeek

by vcf＠vintage.org

Does anyone have old issues of MacWeek they'd like to get rid of? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 11 months

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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 23, Ernest wrote: > Well, there were suddenly 37 active connections all trying to get it. Ouch. > No wonder it bombed on you. Keep trying if you get a server busy error. The > activity should slow down. > > Comments on the site, anyone? Cool stuff! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

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Happy Holidays!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 26, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > Of course I enjoy doing that, which is why I was doing it. But it's > > also what I do most of the other days in the year, so it's hardly a > > holiday ;-) > May I call you a geek? ;-) > > BTW: I earn my mony as a programmer and what do I do for my private > enjoinment this days: I am porting (OK, trying to port) pdksh-5.2.14 to > 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73... ;-) Woohoo! And WHO is a geek here? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

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FW: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

I'm sure someone here would want this... Subject: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:40:56 -0500 From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie(a)cablespeed.com> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec As a testament to Digitial engineering, I have a VAX 3900 that's been sitting in my garage for 3 1/2 years that just booted up! CONDITIONS: Machine must be picked up in its entirety - ALL OR NOTHING Local pickup only - I don't want to ship this beast LOCATION: Laurel, MD 20724 You will need a large sedan, pickup, or similar vehicle. The external frame has been modified to come apart, so loading it will be easy. PARTICULARS: VAX 3900 - CPU - (Big cabinet) KA655-AA (M7625-AA) 32 MB RAM - MEMORY - MS650-BA (M7622-A) DESQA-SA - Ethernet - (M3127-PA) CXY08-M - 8 line Terminal controller - (M3119-YA) USD 1108 QBUS->SCSI Controller - in passthrough mode * This is a NON-DISCONNECTING controller - yes, I have the manual! TQK70 - tape controller - (M7559-00) * DRIVE IS _BROKEN_ KDA50 - disk controller - (M7164-00 & M7165-00) CMD 200 TM QBUS->SCSI Controller * Yes, I have the manual RA90 Drive (1.2GB) - Big and slow, but after 3 1/2 years idle time, still works TK70 - tape drive - BROKEN NOTES: The CMD 200 TM recognized a newer SCSI CD-ROM and booted VMS 7.1 install kit. Machine currently boots VMS 5.5-2. CXY08 and DESQA have NOT been tested, but were working. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

23 years, 11 months

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FW: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

*sigh*, this has to happen a month and a half after I move out of Laurel... :-( -Dave On December 26, David Woyciesjes wrote: > I'm sure someone here would want this... > > Subject: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home > Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:40:56 -0500 > From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie(a)cablespeed.com> > Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec > > As a testament to Digitial engineering, I have a VAX 3900 that's been > sitting in my garage for 3 1/2 years that just booted up! > > CONDITIONS: > > Machine must be picked up in its entirety - ALL OR NOTHING > Local pickup only - I don't want to ship this beast > > LOCATION: > > Laurel, MD 20724 > > You will need a large sedan, pickup, or similar vehicle. The external > frame has been modified to come apart, so loading it will be easy. > > PARTICULARS: > > VAX 3900 - CPU - (Big cabinet) KA655-AA (M7625-AA) > 32 MB RAM - MEMORY - MS650-BA (M7622-A) > DESQA-SA - Ethernet - (M3127-PA) > CXY08-M - 8 line Terminal controller - (M3119-YA) > USD 1108 QBUS->SCSI Controller - in passthrough mode > * This is a NON-DISCONNECTING controller - yes, I have the manual! > TQK70 - tape controller - (M7559-00) > * DRIVE IS _BROKEN_ > KDA50 - disk controller - (M7164-00 & M7165-00) > CMD 200 TM QBUS->SCSI Controller > * Yes, I have the manual > RA90 Drive (1.2GB) - Big and slow, but after 3 1/2 years idle time, > still works > TK70 - tape drive - BROKEN > > NOTES: > > The CMD 200 TM recognized a newer SCSI CD-ROM and booted VMS 7.1 install > kit. > > Machine currently boots VMS 5.5-2. > > CXY08 and DESQA have NOT been tested, but were working. > > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

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Wanted DEC VT1200 mouse and cable

by pechter＠bg-tc-ppp1341.monmouth.com

I'm looking for the following. The cable that goes between the DEC VT1200 (looks like an N connector) and their monochrome video monitors like a vt262 and a DEC VSXXX-AA mouse. I've got a working VT1200 minus mouse and video cable. I was going to cobble one up with some RG6 and a BNC connector and an N connector (if that's really an N connector) but I'd really rather find the right cable and spend more time enjoying the toy rather than fixing it. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com

23 years, 11 months

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PDP8/A memory problems, what to do?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

[For once I did not crosspost and now PDP-8 Lovers list is not working right, so it goes to classiccmp again.] Hi, after dishwashing I reassembled my "new" PDP8/A and it's working again, after David Gesswein hinted me to the programmers console quick reference, I was able to enter my first manually assembled programs and it's indeed working! I must say that I never thought I would ever manually assemble a machine program, but with the PDP8 it's remarkably easy. My first PDP-8 program is a memory test, and I was glad I did it because I found a problem. My test goes through all memory fields and writes into each cell its address in the field. Then it reads that address out of each field again and so finds problems. I have 3 16k words boards and one 8k word board. Two of the 16k boards are good but both seem to want to play the role of the lower fields 0 to 3. The third 16k board plays the high fields 4 to 7, but it has a systematic error masking out bits 6 and 7. All data X I write into it is read as X AND 7717. The 8k board has a similar bit mask error, it's mask is 6777. Is this a fatal problem or can one fix it by cleaning some contacts or redo some crummy soldering? I assume the core mats are all fine, because they would not just lose a few columns of data bits, right? I also assume that others had to deal with similar issues, because apparently such errors are not uncommon. What's the trick? (I did swap them into various backplane slots, just to make sure it's not just a gap in the data bus lines. ... BTW, does the OMNIBUS need something like grant continuity cards for intermittent empty slots?) thanks for your advice, -Gunther PS, just to show off (and to save this stuff from my hand- written notes) here's my program. It's ugly spaghetti code with quirks because I had to modify it at the console (remember: never start coding without having done your work on paper :-) I now understand much better :-) I'm not sure I have the symbolic assembly language right, I may use some things (like the Z modifier for zero-page addressing) that is not standard but helps me code right. 0020 0000 LOC , 0 TESTED MEMORY LOCATION 0021 0000 FLD , 0 TESTED FIELD NUMBER WRITE LOOP 0200 7200 CLA A = 0 0201 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI 0202 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0 0203 1257 TAD LOCINI A += LOCINI 0204 3020 DCA Z LOC LOC = A; A = 0 0205 1020 WRLOOP, TAD Z LOC A += LOC 0206 3420 DCA IZ LOC *LOC = A; A = 0 0207 2020 ISZ Z LOC IF(++LOC == 0) 0210 5205 JMP WRLOOP ELSE GOTO WRLOOP 0211 4234 IFRET, JMS INCFLD THEN A = INCFLD() 0212 7450 SNA IF(A != 0) 0213 5205 JMP WRLOOP ELSE GOTO WRLOOP /*FALLTHROUGH*/ READ/CHECK LOOP 0214 7200 CLA A = 0 0215 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI 0216 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0 0217 1257 TAD LOCINI A += LOCINI 0220 3020 DCA Z LOC LOC = A; A = 0 0221 1020 RDLOOP, TAD Z LOC A += LOC 0222 7041 CIA A = -A 0223 1420 TAD IZ LOC A += *LOC 0224 7440 SZA IF(A != 0) 0225 7402 ERROR, HLT ELSE HALT 0226 2020 ISZ Z LOC THEN IF(++LOC == 0) 0227 5221 JMP RDLOOP ELSE GOTO RDLOOP 0230 4234 JMS INCFLD THEN A = INCFLD() 0231 7450 SNA IF(A != 0) 0232 5221 JMP RDLOOP ELSE GOTO RDLOOP 0233 7402 OK, HLT THEN HALT INCREASE DATA FIELD SUBROUTINE returns 0 if success resets field to 0 and returns -1 if overflow 0234 0000 INCFLD, 0 0235 2021 ISZ Z FLD IF(++FLD == 0) 0236 7300 CLA CLL ELSE { A = 0; L = 0 } 0237 1021 TAD Z FLD THEN A += FLD 0240 7047 CIA A = -A 0241 1255 TAD FLDMAX A += FLDMAX 0242 7510 SPA IF(A >= 0) 0243 5261 JMP RSTFLD ELSE GOTO RSTFLD 0244 7300 CLA CLL THEN { A = 0; L = 0 } 0245 1021 TAD Z FLD A += FLD 0246 7006 RAL 2 A <<= 2 0247 7004 RAL A <<= 1 0250 1260 TAD CDFTMP A += CDFTMP 0251 3252 DCA CDFDO CDFDO = A; A = 0 0252 0000 CDFDO, 0 0253 5634 JMP I INCFLD RETURN INITIALIZATION VALUES 0254 0000 FLDINI, 0 0255 0007 FLDMAX, 7 0256 0257 0300 LOCINI, 0300 0260 6201 CDFTMP, CDF RESET THE MEMORY FIELD BACK TO 0 assert A == -1 0261 7000 RSTFLD, NOP 0262 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI 0263 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0 0264 4234 JMS INCFLD A = INCFLD() 0265 7040 CMA A ~= A 0266 5212 JMP IFRET GOTO IFRET -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

23 years, 11 months

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Semi-OT: 32Mb SO-DIMMs available

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

I thought I'd give folks a chance on these before I took them back. I bought them labelled "SO-DIMMs for older Dell Laptops" - apparently, my laptop is too old. What I have in my Latitude LM are what I think of as SO-DIMMs - 36-pins, double-sided, no keying groove. What I have appears to be for a Latitude CP machine. It _does_ have a keying groove and a lot more pins... more than double. One of these is new in the package, one has been opened (before I got them). The part numbers on the DRAMs is D42S65165G5-A60-7JF. The CDW part number is 118982, the Visiontek part number appears to be 54073.0 If anyone is interested in a pair of 32Mb SO-DIMMs, contact me off-list at ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com. If there's no interest, I can take them back, but they'll hit me for a 10% restocking fee. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

23 years, 11 months

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[geeks] IBM RS/6000 7012-3XX

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Either have a key or "mknod /dev/big_screwdriver" and be handy with a > soldering iron. The key not only locks the cabinet, but controls the > boot sequence. You need it. I imagine one could fit a switch in place of the keylock, if you really want. > Some things you will want to consider. > The 320 & 32h need proprietary serial cables. I can supply pinouts. > They, as well as a few others, also have a proprietary external SCSI > interface. It looks like a 68-pin connector, but it's not. Reminds me of the interface on the MicroVAX 3100 machines, which also looks like a 68-pin connector, and it is(!), but it's a SCSI-1 interface. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 26, Christopher Smith wrote: > > I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a > > use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows > > if you want to put stuff on the web. > > Then again, when is windows the right tool for the job? (Unless you want to > orchestrate a cruel practical joke...) Hmm. It's the right tool if you want to put on a tie, be a "team player", use the word "key" a lot (and not meaning a piece of metal with "XX2247" stamped on it), and pretend to be indespensible while collecting a huge salary for little or no real work. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

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I'm back!!!!

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a > use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows > if you want to put stuff on the web. Then again, when is windows the right tool for the job? (Unless you want to orchestrate a cruel practical joke...) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

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More... Re: VS4000 hardware questions

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: UberTechnoid(a)Home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@Home.com] > Help does nothing really useful. What I'd like to know for > instance, is > how do I set the vax to do an unattended boot. It has been > stuck at a two > stage boot since before I even got an OS on it. It powers > on, self-tests, > boots to a second-level CLI, I type C for Continue and there we go. Actually that's probably a problem with your default boot options. Those are AFAIK unique depending on the system you're booting, and as such ought to be handled in the O/S documentation. > A prom manual would tell me how to get rid of the second-level cli. See above -- I'm not so sure. :) All else aside, though, you may consider checking the values of all the built-in variables for obvious problems. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

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More... Re: VS4000 hardware questions

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: UberTechnoid(a)Home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@Home.com] > Good luck! I can't even find a PROM command manual for the > thing. Come > to mention it, DOES anyone have a prom command listing for > the vs400/60 > and/or the Sparcstation 4/330 (sun4)? I have a Sun SBUS development kit which contains (among other things) a quick-reference card which lists most OpenBoot monitor commands, and a full (realatively large, and I'd rather not copy the whole deal if I can help it. :) forth-like-monitor-language reference manual. As for the VAX, I have no reference, but the 4000s were new enough to support the "help" command. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

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What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: James L. Rice [mailto:jrice@texoma.net] > You are lucky. I changed from Wife 1.0 who hated technology and > computers to Wife 2.0 who is an avid user (even if I can't > get her off > M$ products) and not only tolerates my collection but encourages it. > She is the contributer of the second cube as well as the NeXT Color > Printer. The change over from version 1.0 to 2.0 was very expensive > ...in fact so expensive that I would hesitate to do it again. On the other hand, your current wife device seems very well-behaved, so I'd not see why you should change again. ;) It's difficult to find one that will maintain stability with even a nominally normal relationship signal at any rate, and you're better off sticking with what works. It helps, of course, if you can handle the PayAttentionToME signals in real-time. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

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PDP11

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Did anyone snag this?? (see below...). I haven't caught up on my digest reading .... This is about 1/2 hour from me, straight shot down Route 2. My wife would divorce me if I took it, but I'd LOVE to help rescue it for someone else... And I own a pickup w/ a cover... Rich B. ----------------------------- From: "Thomas R. Fitch" <tfitch(a)esleeck.com> To: "'mrbill(a)pdp11.org'" <mrbill(a)pdp11.org> Subject: PDP11 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:19:23 -0500 Mr. Bill, I have a PDP11 in two towers, with 2 crt's and keyboards, and a keyboard printer. All in excellent condition. I also have all of the original documentation. This product is available for pickup from our Turners Falls, MA location. Please contact me if you have any interest. Tom Fitch, Treasurer Esleeck Manufacturing Company 36 Canal Road Turners Falls, MA 01376 (413) 863-4326 ext 206

23 years, 11 months

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Good way to archive system disks

by dmabry＠mich.com

I'd like to create some archives of system diskettes for older machines, cp/m machines that use 5 1/4" 96 tpi double sided diskettes and 8" diskettes. What is a good way to do that? I've looked into Teledisk but that assumes that you can read the actual diskettes on a PC which I can't. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093

23 years, 11 months

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Source for Osborne documentation?

by gibbsjj＠u.washington.edu

Hi all, I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation somewhere? Thanks. Josh

23 years, 11 months

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Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!

by fernande＠internet1.net

I didn't even realize it was past 12:00 until just now...... I'm busy wrapping presents :-) I've been working on a 486 for the last few days. I'm trying to get a few stagnant projects going. Dumb things freezes on me..... will write more later. Finally snowed too! Merry Christmas!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

23 years, 11 months

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Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I have a AMD5x86/133 that runs linux Xwin rather well in 16mb ram. I've run it on 486dx66 with 20mb ram and it's decent. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Everyone!!!! >On Tue, 25 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > >> A 486 makes a nice Linux box providing you don't run X-windows. > >A 486 with 32-64mb of ram will run X fine, but it's still a little slow >for cpu intensive processes (netscape, mozilla, gimp...). These machines >also make excellent X terminals, provided they have a fairly decent video >card. My personal favorites tend to be old Diamond Viper and Stealth VLB >cards with 2mb of video ram. > >-Toth >

23 years, 11 months

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HP 1000/E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

>The time base generator boards are very simple, that accept a 3-bit >value >and will set their I/O flag bit after the selected time period, >which can >be 10 sec, 1 sec, 0.1 sec, 0.01 sec, etc. > >Usually the TBG board is installed in slot 10. I found the manuals for the TBG on www.spies.com/~AEK . Haven't messed with that board yet but, shouldn't have too much trouble using it. >You also have a HS Terminal board. Excellent, these are slightly >rare. >This is a serial port board that will run up to a maximm of >2400 baud, and >it is compatible with HP Basic. Normally these use a >current loop >interface, but a simple modification to the I/O cable >(inside the hood >that connects to the PCB) will give you RS-232 I/O. >I can supply all the >info you need for this. As with the TBG board, I found the manuals for this board. There are several code samples with the manuals and on Jeff's site but, so far I can't get it to work. I didn't realize the cable had to be changed for RS232. If you have the pin outs, that'd be cool. I don't have the code in front of me but, unless I'm mistaken, it just continously loops when checking the status. Not sure if this could be caused by the cabling differences or not. ... SFS 10 JMP *-1 ... NOTE: This is the only I/O card in the box so, I assumed it had to go in slot "10". If you can provide a short routine to send a single character to the console, that'd eliminate one of the variables (me). >Oh yes, your going to have to use a terminal with 2400 baud, 7 data > > >bits, space parity, and 2 stop bits. Hyperterminal works just fine >for >this. No problem. Got plenty of dumb terminals laying around. >The microcircuit interface boards are very valuable. You will want >to use >one of these as your reader-emulator interface. I'll need to >know if they >are '+ True' or 'GND true' boards, the differance being >true or inverting >cable drivers. We'll get to that a little later :-) >As for the 55613 GMR-1 board, I have no idea on this item. I'm >stumped, >and thats not too easy. Its not listed in my HP interface >manuals. >(to test a HP 1000 CPU, set the A register to 100000 octal, set the P > >register to 000000 and open the front panel. Switch the Lock/Operate > >switch to Lock, then press Was able to locate the DOCS for the ROM on the /~AEK/ site and ran the diagnostics (as indicated above). Everything checks out OK. >The Natel 2101 R/D converter also stumps me, is this a third party >I/O >board? >From the research I've done, it appears that "R/D Converter" indicates a "Resolver to Data converter. It was probably used in a some kinda robotic or motion controller application. >Now then, a tape reader emulator... > >My emulator uses a PIC 16C65A to talk to the microcircuit interface >board, >and a bank of EPROMs that hold images of the paper tapes. I >also have >modes to read from a generic paper tape reader, or from an >application >running on a PC (PC application not working yet). >If all you need is to boot HP Basic, I can build you a simple >version of >the emulator, or simply send you schematics and >pre-programmed PIC and >EPROM chips, at your preferance. Hmm... Once I get the system talking to a serial interface, I'll investigate further. From what I understand, the TAPE READER protocol is pretty simple so, I may be able to hack something together. I'll let you know when I get this far. >If these systems have the HP 7970E tape drive, thats a sturdy, >reliable >tape drive that is not too hard to get running with simple >assembly >language programs. I have one, and would reccomend it to >any HP >collector. Nothing says vintage like spinning mag tape and >blinking >lights! I have several HP 7978 (HP-IB) tape drives that I use on my "classic" 3000s and 9000 HP-UX boxes. Those are really sweet drives! Not sure if they're compatible with the 1000 or not? >Lastly, if you have any interest in assembly language programming on >your >HP machine, I can email you a DOS executable version of the >original HP >assembler. Downloaded the assembler (hpasm.c) from Jeff's site. Had no problem compiling or running it on my 9000. I've been using it while trying to get the serial interface going. Also downloaded the e21.c emulator but, wouldn't build on my box. --- /usr/ccs/bin/ld: Unsatisfied symbols: kbhit (code) --- Really haven't had time to investigate. Thanks again, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

23 years, 11 months

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PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I have read it, it's on my bookshelf. PALs were still just starting to be seriously used in the very late 70s with an increase into the 80s, it was the cost vs board real estate vs reliability issue. The testability/reliability issues took a few years to gain engineers confidence. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: Re: PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were >> > >> expensive. >> > >> It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is. >> ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers >differently, >> please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than >several >> TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL in >> the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first >encountered >> PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then. >> >> > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly >> > they were cheaper. >> >> Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The >> oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I >> to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an >> intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL >> logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq ft. >> of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial port >> (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic. >> >> In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was >> horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in part >> because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with >> TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and >> implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000 (i.e., >> read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it >automatically >> generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact, but >> from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory DMA >> engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of >popcorn >> logic. >> >> > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990... >> > >> > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us. >> >> I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came >> out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away. > >You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It >describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to >early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York

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PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> > > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were > > >> expensive. > > > It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is. > ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers differently, > please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than several > TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL in > the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first encountered > PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then. > > > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly > > they were cheaper. > > Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The > oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I > to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an > intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL > logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq ft. > of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial port > (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic. > > In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was > horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in part > because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with > TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and > implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000 (i.e., > read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it automatically > generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact, but > from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory DMA > engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of popcorn > logic. > > > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990... > > > > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us. > > I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came > out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away. You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

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Found today ISD EPROM?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 21, Tony Duell wrote: > > Today I stopped at a thrift and found a Blue/White metal device made by > > ISD and can't really figure it out. It has a place burn a chip and the > > one in it is ISD 1016 AP; a four inch speaker at the top and on the > > IIRC the ISD... chips were non-volatile, speech-quality audio storage > devices. Not digitised speech, they used different charge levels in > E2PROM-like cells to store analogue qunatities. I've used these chips in a few projects recently. They work very well and are easy to interface to PIC microcontrollers. Definitely neat stuff. I'm surprised they were able to get any sort of amplitude range from those nonvolatile cells, but they seem to have perfected it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, UberTechnoid wrote: > My Sparcstation 4/330 has a bank of ten (or so) red leds in a row. These > light in varios patterns to indicate which self test is being conducted at > power on. After this, the leds 'race' back and forth faster or slower > depending on the CPU load. Unfortunately, this cool load meter doesn't work > in netbsd or openbsd, only in Solaris. > > My Vaxstation 4000/60 has an 8 (or so) red led that also posts codes at > power on but nothing else in either vms or in netbsd. > > I recompiled the netbsd 1.5.2 kernel to enable the led on the Sparc.....and > nothing still. > > Why on earth would Sun put a cool set of leds UNDERNEATH the cover? I mean, > you might as well put it out there. The "LEDs on the spine of the board" design goes back to the earlier rackmount chassis, in which one could walk behind the racks and see the LEDs. The NetBSD LED support isn't for those LEDs, if memory serves...I believe it's only for the front panel LED on the SPARCstations, which is also controlled by software. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

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Tinning on old PCBs

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 20, John Lawson wrote: > Just a quick (dumb) question: is this 'tinning' silver? Or Green? In > other words, has the solder itself actually flaked off the trace (meaning > it never bonded in the first place) or has the 'paint' coating called the > solder mask, which is usually green, come off, revealing the trace beneath > it? This very common, and Ethan is right, it should be carefully re-tinned > to avoid long-term corrosion. I have a bottle of this really neat stuff that I bought at Active Electronics when I lived in Maryland. It's a clear liquid that, when brushed or poured over copper, deposits a layer of silvery metal (tin I assume) on the surface of the copper...nearly instantaneously. It just seems to plate out of solution onto the copper. It's most interesting to watch. It was sold with the printed circuit board fabrication materials, obviously intended for post-etching tinning of the remaining copper. I don't quite recall what it was called; it's still packed up from my move. But it was really neat stuff. -Dave PS - Happy holidays to all my fellow classiccmp'ers!! May your days be filled with tons of good food and your nights be filled with blinkenlights and elegant non-x86 instruction sets. -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

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"Geeks" and licensing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Rebuild a system the customer is satisfied with? Risk his > process again? Rather not. A special place in Hell awaits those unwilling to take risks... -dq

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 14, 16:16, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > In particular, do any of you have familiarity with > systems that flash the on or power light as an > indicattor, sopecifiecally, of a power supply > problem? The only thing I can think of that's *designed* to do something like that is an SGI Indy; if you power one up and it can't even run the the code in the PROM, it flashes the power light (which is a two-colour LED). The usual cause id that there's no (recognisable) RAM at all in it. Probably not relevant to a PR1ME. Even less relevant, but in the same vein, is an Acorn Archimedes. If it can't boot, and can't set up the display, it flashes a 4-bit fault code on the floppy access LED. However, the code is RISC OS-specific. > Would anyone venture what a 2 Hz flash rate on the ON > LED of a Prime might mean? If it's a short "on" and a long "off", it might be a power supply that is starting up , detecting a problem, and shutting off again. And retrying, and ... Is there any accompanying, possibly fairly quiet, whistle/buzz/click that occurs at the same rate? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

-----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were >> expensive. Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly they were cheaper. >I never heard about pal's until about 1990. In some ways the peripheral PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us. >chips are in a really sorry shape. You have vintage slow I/O (2 MHZ?) >or PC motherboard chip sets. Nothing in between. On my FPGA I can run >with a 250 ns memory cycle, but need to stretch it to 625 ns for I/O. Actually thats not true. BY 1981 you have peripherals in the 125ns read write timing range. Then again Z80 at that time was just hinting at 6mhz so z80 peripherals were of an according spped for that cpu. However, other parts were faster and often far cheaper. Personally if I wanted the SIO functionality for a NON-z80 system I'd never use the zilog part. Reason it was not cheap,nor was it easy to use for non-z80 systems. They were designed for the Z80, period. Unfortunatly they were slow. If you wanted faster the 83xx or 85xx parts from Zilog were a far better choice but Zbus was scary to most people and they weren't cheap. The other part of this is NEC and Intel did the MPSC (NEC D7201, INtel 8274) which was functionally identical to the SIO and was "tuned" for 8080/8085/8088/8086 style busses and faster as well. It was a more generic part than the SIO. Also around that time Signetics and friends were doing the 2681 part that was cheap and available in various flavors. Peripherals back then were quite varied. Allison

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Plastic latches for the Osborne?

by gibbsjj＠u.washington.edu

Hi all, Has anyone out there found a replacement for the plastic latches on the Osborne 1? I just got this machine, and one of them is broken off. What a bad design... considering how solid the rest of the machine is I am surprised they did not put some big hinged metal suitcase latches on the sucker! Thanks. Josh gibbsjj(a)u.washington.edu

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Apple DuoDisk (was Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff)

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

--- SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/8/2001 5:06:19 AM Central Standard Time, > foo(a)siconic.com writes: > I do remember reading something of a faulty/out of spec component > inside the duodisk that would cause some issues with the floppy drives > but like I said, coming up 404 on it. Think I'll ask in comp.sys..... > and find out for sure. I'd like to hear more about this. I always used individual drives (typically SA400 mechs) when I did Apple development. The IIe and DuoDisk were too new and expensive for a low-budget shop like us (but we did eventually support the //c _and_ the Apple mouse) I have a DuoDisk but no cable. What pins were used? I think I _might_ have a cable that was sacrificed to the Amiga gods by having one of the pins broken out of one end for use as a modem cable (since the Amiga puts voltage on some of the pins). It was a stupid thing to do, but it was more than 10 years ago when Apple stuff was underappreciated. Anyone have an Apple part number for a DuoDisk cable? Will a 25-pin straight-through work? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

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VS4000 hardware questions

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Well, I made room on my bench, opened up my grubby, new-to-me 4000/60, > and it only has one of the two RZ24 drives my partner paid for. I've > fired off email to the vendor asking him to ship the drive and mounting > hardware, but I don't expect that he'll have either. Take a closer look. Two drives can be attached to the plastic clip in the front middle of the machine, on on top and one underneath. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no t o squirrels & Pascal question)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> When OT threads die and then get resurrected under even > wilder topics, its just not worth it. Ok, we've had threads similar to this one before, but maybe not quite... What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? What should not be counted: Systems that never went beyond prototype Systems that they made only one of Systems that were custom-designed for a single customer and were only in limited production Systems that were not "general purpose" computers Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: Systems you most of all want Rather, the systems I'me talking about would have been commercially produced, were general-purpose systems, made in quantity of say at least a baker's dozen. These systems might be generally available, and might go for a price you can afford, but you just can't *find* them where you're at. Around here for me, it would be PDP-8's and Lisa's. ??? -dq

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What 's a 3Com 3c515 worth these days?

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

>Well... I have no personal need for an ISA 10/100 in a WinTel box - I >have a 10BaseT network with 10Base2 and 10BaseFL branches going into >a port on my 10/100 switch. For old stuff, 10mbps is fine. If I were >going to buy this at all, I'd see about using it with AmigaDOS (and >working with Holger Kruse on an MNI driver, if he's still around) Holger isn't working on Miami any longer is he? I registered it a number of years ago but from the looks of it, it appears that development on it has stopped. I'm currently using an X-Surf with the MNI driver with the standard version of Miami (registered) on my A3000. Jeff

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Mike Stein

by mhstein＠usa.net

Sorry; trouble getting into ISP & mailbox filled up. OK now, c u off-list. m ---------------Original Message-------------- From: "Ernest" <ernestls(a)attbi.com> Subject: Mike Stein Hey, Mike. I've been trying to get ahold of you via email about your Apple II clone but your mail keeps bouncing back. Please contact me if you are still interested in selling those systems to me. Thanks. Ernest

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have a Happy ...

by oliv555＠arrl.net

>from Houston, wishing all list members a safe and happy holiday :) -nick o

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HP 1000/E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

First, I'd like to say thanks to everyone that has provided help. The insight provided by this group is invaluable in getting a system like this going :-) I did a quick inventory of the cards in the rear of the machine plus a second 1000 carcass that I have and this is what I found: * (2) Time base generator * (3) Microcircuit A-2222 / 12566-60032 cards * (1) 55613 GMR-1 - I have no idea what this is. * (1) HS Terminal - 12531-80025 * (1) INTF - 1337 * (3) Natel 2101 R/D Converter I understand the "Time Generator" card but, really don't know the functions of the other cards. I know some of this info may be on the spies/~AEK site but, haven't had time to filter through those docs. The machine also has: * (1) 64K HSM 12747H - High speed memory * (1) MEM CONTR 2102B * (1) M.E.M 12731 I'm assuming these are just extended memory cards and controllers. At this point, the HP basic route certainly seems like the most doable. I did see those images on Jeff's site but, was pretty clueless as to how to get the data into the machine. Bob: exactly what is involved in your "Paper Tape Emulator". From the functional description, it doesn't sound all that complicated. This may be something, I could hack together. As a side note: I know where there are two more 1000/E that I could get for about $200 each. While I haven't inventoried them, each of those systems is a FULL rack of goodies including disk drives, X/Y data monitors, A/D converters, etc... One of the systems has a combo tape/hard drive and could possibly still have the OS installed. The other one has dual 8" floppies. I'm running out of room for rack sized systems but, those probably deserve a good home (mine). Happy holidays to all, SteveRob >From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP 1000/E >Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:56:42 -0500 > >Wow, you got an amazing deal! > >I've been looking for a spare 2113 for a while now, as I have a custom >instrument that is based on a HP 2113 processor. I would have easily paid >10 >times that price! > >As for operating systems and software, you have at least two options... > >First, the easy path... > >Simply run HP's stand-alone basic. You can download a binary image of the >media, originally a paper tape, from Jeff's HP2100 Archives. Now you need >a way >to get >that data into the machine, and a console port. > >You will also need a 'Buffered TTY Register' board to serve as a console >serial >port. Later HP machines (like the 2113) often use the BACI (Buffered Async >Communications Adapter) board, which is NOT compatible with HP Basic. > >Depending on what interface boards you have, we may be able to work out a >deal. > >I usually boot HP Basic from a custom tape reader emulator that holds the >binary >image of the paper tape in EPROM. This reader-emulator connects to a HP >'Microcircuit Interface' board, and the software is loaded using the >built-in >boot loader ROMs in the HP 2113. You simply power up, set a few switches >on the >front panel, then press IBL, Preset, then IBL once again, and the loader >code is >stored in memory. Pressing RUN at this point will load the tape image into >memory, and away you go. > >Now then the hard way... > >HP's operating system's for these machines are pretty nasty. The 'top of >the >line' OS was RTE-6VM, and the more common OS was RTE-IVB (RTE 4B). These >operating systems were unlike anything I've ever seen, cryptic, obtuse, and >fairly painful to use. As an example, to run a compiled program, you had >to >link the code into the OS itself. > >The hardest part here, is getting a useable disk system. RTE-IVB uses what >were >called MAC interface disks, while RTE-6VM also supported ICD drives, using >a >specialized version of the IEEE-488 interface. > >Supporting the original operating systems is a lot of work, and I strongly >reccomend you run HP Basic. > >Now, what exactly do you have? > >The HP 2113 was one of the last machines in a long series going back to >1968. >Your 2113 is binary code compatible with the original HP 2116, the first HP >product to use the then new-fangeled IC chips. HP2113's were still selling >for >$13,000+ in 1983, and are exceptionally well-built. > >It has no stack, but executes subroutines much like a PDP-8. In addition >to the >original HP 2116 instructions, the HP 2113 also adds several new registers >and >instructions, as well as a virtual memory scheme that can address 1 >megaword of >solid-state memory. > >Oh yes, many of the original interface boards from a 1968 HP 2116 will plug >right into your 2113 and work perfectly (but not the cool oscilloscope >point-plot display board...). > >I have a MS-DOS based version of the HP assembler, so you can assemble >small >programs on your PC. I am also working on a program for the PC that will >send >the paper tape image from the assembler into the HP via my tape reader >emulator. Once this is working, it should be possible to boot the HP >directly >from a file on the PC's disk. > >Take a careful inventory of the interface boards you have, and we can see >if >there is something in there you can use to get your machine running HP >Basic. >(many generic HP interface boards can be made to serve as psudo-tape reader >interfaces). _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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RS/6000, cheap to good home.

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Well, most of one anyway. I have a 7011-250 upgraded from a 7011-220, which means that I replaced literally everything but the case. So I have the 220 entire, if you want to mount it on something. This includes PSU, system board, MCA riser, 8-bit color adapter & riser, floppy drive & cable, and the lock barrel & key. A standard >2G scsi disk & cable will work. I've heard that the graphics adapter is not supported past AIX v3.25, but I promise you don't want to run X on this dog anyway. Or you could use a standard MCA graphics adapter. I need an internal SCSI cable for my VS3100 m38, a memory expansion board for the PS/2 8570, and a GXT130P graphics adapter. I'd consider Q-Bus drive controllers for the VS-II I may or may not be rebuilding, depending on whether the trade for CPU & RAM goes through. If you have something that's worth more than the RS/6000 pieces/parts, let me know what else you need. I'm suffering no delusions concerning the value of an orphaned 7011-220. Doc

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >Since I have no way of having a chip of 80's technology made I have to >limit the design to what looks realistic for that era. I dont get that? You want a 4mhz z80 or 5mhz 8085? Those are relatively common. Now, if your doing PDP-8 era then 1.2uS instruction cycle was the number, slow by todays standards. >This is what this is -- a hobby/ learning tool -- In the early 80s, I really was trying to do what zilog eventually did, make a Z280 more or less. That and figure out what this ucode thing was all about. >If it was $$$ making I would have to move to Seattle. :) Now that's depressing. ;)

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Z80 uses it's time differently... Then again how many instuctions would it take to do a 16bit add (result in register or convenient place). The fact that both are still viable suggests they have adaquate speed and a rich enough instruction set to do many tasks. Last item, z80, Z180 and Z280 do not have the same timing. For example the Z280 can be run at a bus speed slower than the CPU speed and with the MMU and cache running in burst mode you get a very different bus utilization model. Generally the only things that count is: Can the cpu do the task? What cpu are you familiar with? What is the total cost to implement the task (firmware/software counts)? Politcial impacts (company prefers, owns, has, used before). Do I think z80 is better than 6502? Yes, I'm biased. Is 6502 a good cpu? I think so, it certainly beat the 6800 and a lot of others in the 8bit space. Would I design with it? No, lack of experience, no on hand software base for it, limited tools to work with it. Would I consider it, likely. I have 6502, 6800, 1802, SC/MP, SC/MPII, ti9900, 8048/9/874x, 8080, 8085, z80, Z180 Z280, 6809 and T-11 to pick from. For a new design (personal) of some size say to run an OS then Z280 or T-11 for single chip I have 8748, 8749 and 8751s around. For simple controllers 8085 is easy to use if it grows out of the 8749. Then again I also have upd78pg11s too. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:17 AM Subject: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >I've been on both sides of this question on a number of occasions and I've found >that the real challenge is to figure out what defines a level playing field for >such a comparison. I once concluded that running each processor at a rate >amenable with the same memory bandwidth was appropriate, but there are a number >of quesitons, still that have to be resolved. > >(1) the 6502 is designed in a way that lends itself very well to shared use of >its memory, i.e. using the memory for the CPU during phase-2 and letting a >memory-mapped video refresh circuit have it during phase-1. That's quite >reasonable and impacts the 6502 very little, but, if you try to do the same >thing with a Z80, you get tangled up with its variable cycle lengths pretty >quickly. > >(2) the Z80 demands a pretty short cycle for its instruction fetch (M1) cycle, >and, if that's to be the rate-determining step for the cmparison, i.e. if the >memory bandwidth requirement is determined on that basis, (no wait-states >allowed) then the 6502 will eat it alive. That, of course, is because 50% of >its memory bandwidth will be frittered away due to the fact that the M1 cycle is >short and has a wasted tail end (refresh cycle) while the 6502 doesn't have that >burden. Further, if that determines the memory bandwidth, then the M1 cycle >(~400 ns with 200ns memory of the era) means that a 4 MHz CPU wouldn't be able >to run with it. > >Fairness might demand a wait state, but that would then raise the question of >what's the bus bandwidth at which the 6502 will be run (assume a 20 MHz 6502 and >a 20 MHz Z80, but use memory of their own era.) Also, the refresh cycle itself >is a mite short for what the CPU does at 4 MHz. How would one stretch it to >where it wouldn't impinge on the next memory cycle? If you have to share the >memory bus of the 6502, why not the Z80 as well? If you can use timing tricks, >why not on the 6502? I'd say use whatever timing tricks the two CPU's can live >with, but run them to their best advantage. Run phase-1 on the 65-2 for only 25 >ns, then switch to phase-2 for whatever time the Z80 uses the memory. Let the >Z80 use a wait or two in the M1, and stretch the refresh so the cycle can be >complete when the next cycle is in progress. Since non-M1 memory cycles are 3 >clock ticks, the clock could be pretty fast, couldn't it? > >(Can you see how this gets tangled up in technical problems of fair comparison? >That's BEFORE the question of what sort of benchmark software is to be used >comes up.) > >The shortest 6502 instructions take two clock ticks, but some overlap the next >instruction fetch. The shortest Z80 instructions take an M1 cycle, followed by >refresh, to fetch, and I'm not sure whether they execute during the refresh >(they're internal, so that's conceivable) or whether they produce an idle bus >cycle. I also don't know what happens during that idle bus cycle. Simply >sitting down and calculating the relative instruction timing might not be so >easy. It certainly won't be easy to get right. > >My own experience has been that in controller applications, manipulation of >16-bit values doesn't come up as often as I once believed. Mostly it seems the >values that are dealt with are 8 bits or fewer. Others may see this >differently, however. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Greg Ewing" <greg(a)cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:30 PM >Subject: Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip? > > >> Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>: >> >> > what is the faster CPU -- A 6502 or Z80 style processor like >> > the rabbit. >> >> Back when I used to spend long blissful evenings hand-assembling Z80 >> programs [1] I got the impression that Z80 code was more compact than >> 6502 code, being able to manipulate 16-bit values with single >> instructions in many cases. Whether it was actually faster I don't >> know, but I suspect it was, as long as you stuck to the 8080-like core >> instructions which didn't take ridiculous numbers of cycles to >> execute. >> >> [1] I didn't do it in a storage locker, although I did often >> had the heater on in winter. >> >> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ >> University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | >> Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | >> greg(a)cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ >> >> >

23 years, 11 months

6
13
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FS/FT: DEC TZ85 DLT tape drive

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I'm not sure how old this is, or if it meets the 10-year rule.. but I've got a DEC TZ85 (first-generation DLT; also reads TK50 and TK70 media) SCSI DLT drive for sale or trade. Ended up not being enough capacity (does 2.6G on a DLT-III tape) for what I needed at home. I've got the TZ85-A in original DEC big loud and noisy desktop 5.25" enclosure (has Centronics-style SCSI-I connectors, and I'll throw in the DEC scsi terminator). If it helps, I'll also throw in 10 or 20 DLT-III tapes, if you want to pay shipping (these tapes also work with all current DLT drives, at 10/20G capacity if I remember correctly). Looking to sell, or trade for ham radio or scanner (radio) gear. I'm in Austin, TX, and this beast is heavy (as are the tapes), so a local or nearby deal preferred, but if you're not local, buyer pays shipping. Email me if interested. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

23 years, 11 months

1
1
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Fairchild FST-2?

by neil.macmillan＠freeuk.com

The Fairchild FST-2 computer was used to control a family of Semiconductor ( chip ) testers I guess from sometime in the mid 1970s to around the mid 1980s. The family of testers were branded as "Sentry", "Sentinel" and "Series10" ( maybe some others ). The FST-2 was a 24-bit machine with its memory interleaved between odd and even addreses. When the CPU was reading/writing to an odd address, a peripheral could address an even address and vice-versa using DMA. Early machines were booted from tape, but newer machines had a PROM boot board which allowed booting from 8" floppy, hard-disk, tape ( and possibly a network. ) Early machines had 25 bit wide memory with a parity bit, while the later machines had 30 bit wide memory which provided error detection and correction. Control of the tester was via two busses known as the long-register bus and the short-register bus. If you come across an FST-2 which can be powered up, set the console switches ( piano keys ) to 06760000 in octal and press STOP, RESET, LDP, LDC and START. The machine should waken up. There are a few stand-alone FST-2s kicking around without any tester hardware. These were used as a FACTOR compiler co-processor for a development system which was based on the HP1000. Most FST-2s will be part of a chip tester. If the chip tester is still working, the whole system is still quite valuable. Even as a source of spares. Although the tester has a lot of different power supplies the FST-2 probably ony needs 5.0V and the RS-232 voltages to get running. The FST-2 ran an OS named M3 ( "M Cubed" ) and was programmed using a FORTRAN-like language named FACTOR, ( Fairchild Algorithmic Compiler Tester ORiented. ) Most Sentry testers could test digital chips with 60 pins up to 10 MHz. Some later Sentrys could test up to 120 pins at 20 MHz. I remember FST-2s being very slow to compile FACTOR programs. Most users ended up compiling their program and test patterns ( Vectors/Truth-Tables ) on a VAX. Fairchild ( and later Schlumberger ) provided really good in-depth training and documentation for the CPU and the testers for hardware maintenance and programming. The manuals which were up for grabs were either manuals/schematics which were shipped with a tester, or training manuals which some engineer picked up in San Jose or Munich.

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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Wanted DEC VT1200 mouse and cable

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Bill Pechter wrote: > The cable that goes between the DEC VT1200 (looks like an N connector) > and their monochrome video monitors like a vt262 and a DEC VSXXX-AA > mouse. > > I've got a working VT1200 minus mouse and video cable. > I was going to cobble one up with some RG6 and a BNC connector and > an N connector (if that's really an N connector) but I'd really rather > find the right cable and spend more time enjoying the toy rather than > fixing it. FYI, if that connector is about the size of a BNC but threaded, it's a TNC connector. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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Fluke, GRID and Daisy

by kenziem＠sympatico.ca

It's funny how once you find out about a certain machine they then seem to show up everywhere. Found a Fluke 900* yesterday they are asking $25 (Cdn) for it, looked like it was missing attachments. Picked up a GRID 1500 laptop it came with 6 batteries, external 3.5, 5.25 and tape as well as a vga adapter. It's missing a battery charger, and when it boots mentions a config error. The Daisy was sitting in the back, they had it put with office furniture. It looks like a desk but with a closer look, there is a 8" floppy drive on the side and at the base all of the usual connectors.

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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More... Re: VS4000 hardware questions

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/24/01 6:51:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, doc(a)mdrconsult.com writes: > The "disconnect your terminal" part was the thing. I find it odd that > the box won't even finish power-up diags if the terminal is connected > and turned off. > > Doc > That's not so odd.. The exact same thing happens with my 3 vs3100m35's, my vs3500, all my Decstations and my Alphastation as well.. I just leave them completely headless for the most part, and the ones I need a head on always have a terminal connected and running.

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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CD32 and CD-TV (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers)

by rachael_＠gmx.net

on 19-Dec-01 18:53:47, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I still have mine that I bought new. I use it to play CD+G discs and >not much else. Wish I had the MPEG cart - got some VCDs that would >be fun to play on it. I have an SX-1 adapter that turns a CD32 into >sort of an A1200, but I haven't had the time to check it out and put >it together. Does anyone have any docs for that? The jumpers are >labelled, so there's not much guesswork, but any docs are more than >I have now. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/sx-1.html, there is a PDF version of the docs there. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: Rachael_(a)gmx.net url: http://rachael.dyndns.org

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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M8650 async board problem

by djg＠drs-esg.com

One more thing you might want to watch out for with excessive +5 voltage drop on an 8/E is the 5V fuse. I have mine almost full of cards and the fuse holder melted. I have a maintenance handbook (which I got after the failure) which said that this was a known problem. I measured the current draw and found it was slightly above the power supply rating so added another supply to power half the backplane.

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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Apple II serial number 2000?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 24, 6:31, Ernest wrote: > > I have an Apple II, serial number 2000. There is some question as to whether > or not this acurate so I thought that I would toss it out here and see if > any of you can verify it one way or the other. [...] > One person told me that it is in fact, a revision 0 board, and the edge > connectors are unusual (?) but someone else (Sellam) mentioned that he > believed that Apple began the A2 series with serial number 2001 (a spin on > the 2001 movie.) I would like to hear if anyone has any thoughts or opinions > about it. It certainly looks like an early Rev.0 board -- it has the memory configuration blocks, the right kind of sockets, old DRAM, and no extra video pin in the corner. It's an old keyboard as well (look at the power light). It's amazingly clean. You must have taken a bit of care over it, from your description. A nice find, anyway. > The pictures will expand to 640x480 if you click on the main images. Not, alas, in Netscape. But right-clicking on them works. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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720k floppy

by Golemancd＠aol.com

anyone know where i can find some 720k floppies thanks Joee

23 years, 11 months

9
8
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I'm back!!!!

by vaxman＠earthlink.net

Bet y'all missed me :) Got the new Covad/Earthlink DSL hooked up finally... The firewall may actually be working too... Need to check it out... Anything of great import happen in the last two months (since 31-oct-01?) Laters, clint

23 years, 11 months

7
14
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720k floppy thanks

by Golemancd＠aol.com

thanks for the info i am going to see if i can find some on ebay will try the hole covering thing also i have a couple of computers that use 720k tandy and a toshiba laptop thanks again Joee

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Ernest wrote: > I would wish that at least SOME linux snobs would grow up, and stop acting > like conceited jackasses. I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows if you want to put stuff on the web. But, that said, you did a great job on your site, and I like it a lot. Your choice of layout is interesting and easy to use, and I especially like the method of flipping through the photos. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Pat Finnegan wrote: > And I must say I love the use of IIS and Javascript... oh wait did I say > love? No, thats not the word... oh yes. I frown upon it. > > I would wish that at least SOME geeks would avoid using sh*t software. > Even Apache on NT is better... Personally I don't find anything wrong with Javascript; at least it's not a crappy microsoftism. But certainly nobody with even half a clue should be running IIS. I still think it's a really nice website though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

3
2
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CD32 and CD-TV (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers)

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Matt London [mailto:classiccmp@knm.yi.org] > Sent: 21 December 2001 20:09 > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: CD32 and CD-TV (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic > Computers) > > > Speaking of the A570, has anyone got a spare PSU for one? > > I've got an A570 here - the A570/A500/A500+/A600/A1200 PSU's are > interchangable. I wondered about that, but various postings I found indicated the A570 PSU was switchless and also 'pulsed' the power lines to help booting off the CD-ROM.....it didn't mention pinouts so I didn't want to try it! > I'm after one ATM :&) > > I might finally give up and just get a normal CD player, and > use my A570 > for any CDTV games I get. Yeah, but just look at the *Styling* :) You KNOW you want one...... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Ernest wrote: > You guys crack me up -complaining and lecturing about the evils of IIS. Just > take a > look at the page for crying out loud, and forget about whether or not it's > running on > Linux or Windows. I couldn't care less about your opinions on IIS or Apache. > I'll > move it to a linux server as soon as I can. I'm a newb at webpage stuff, so > give me > fucking break. Don't take it so personally, man... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

1
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Fw: Looking for new home: VAX6620 + VAX6530 cluster

by rschaefe＠gcfn.org

This looked too good to not pass it along! Please reply to original poster-- I just saw it on c.o.v and am not involved. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Franklin" <neil(a)franklin.ch.remove> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.vms Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 11:32 AM Subject: Looking for new home: VAX6620 + VAX6530 cluster > Crossposted alt.folklore.computers and comp.os.vms, I only monitor > alt.folklore.computers, so leave that one in. Feel free to post it to > other interested groups or mailing lists. > > > Just got a mail from an colleague, that his employers 2 machine > VAX cluster that is about to be scrapped. > > AFAIK they are to be given away for free, the new owner arranges > and payes for transport (read: truck). > > Place to fetch them from is network building of University Hospital > of University Zurich, Switzerland. > > > System data, as mailed from him: > > 1 VAX 6620 W77xH155xD80cm > 1 VAX 6530 W77xH155xD80cm > 1 HSC50 W54xH107xD80cm > 1 StorageWorks W76xH170xD88cm > containing: 1 TSZ07 tape unit > 2 HSJ40 controllers > 29 4GByte SCSI disks > 13 power supply modules > 1 Infoserver 100 > 1 MA-50 tape controller W48xH13xD55cm > with 2 Exabyte tape units > > There is also an VT320 to go, but I am having that. > > > This stuff must be gone before 2002.02.11, and he must have an firm > commitment before mid 2002.01 (else he will be ordering removal service). > > > -- > Neil Franklin, neil(a)franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ > Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer > - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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720k floppy thanks

by Golemancd＠aol.com

i tryed the thing where u cover the extra hole on a 1.44 oddly enough it actually works. pretty cool . so i am using a 1.44 in my 720k drive on my tanky 1000 hx thanks joe

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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I'm back!!!!

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/24/01 9:16:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, pat(a)purdueriots.com writes: > IIRC, you could actaully download software from a Televideo Z80 CP/M > computer onto those terminals and it would execute on the terminal (like a > diskless box). However I could be thinking of a different Televideo > terminal. My dad (an optometerist) had a few of those with the Televideo > system for a database system, and when the computer went down, the > terminals got sold off to another business still using the same system. :( > > I'd love to get my hands on one of those old beasts. If I'm really lucky > I still have the manual for those terminals... though after my parents > moved I'm not too hopeful. > > That one is the Televideo 800 IIRC. It looks identical to the 950 but with different electronics. Downloaded the operating system from a multiuser box. I had several of them. I think I still have one of the Televideo 800 terminals in my storage locker. Paxton Astoria, OR

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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HP 1000E - It's a blinkin

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Bill, Toggled in the program that you sent me and it actually works. Well... It didn't work the first few times because of operator error but, it works now :-) I AM ABSOLUTELY THRILLED!!! Thanks, SteveRob > > >If you would like, I can send you a real short program > > >that you can key infrom the console that makes the > > >lights blink... > > > > This would be great! > >I'll sent it directly to you... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 22 December 2001 23:28 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD > > > I've managed to acquire a few Multitech Micro-Professor > printers and I'd > > like to know just how the heck to use them. I've managed to > partially > > decipher the schematic, but I can't get the *ing ROM to > dump. I've got it > > I know I have the user manual and scheamtic for this > somewhere. From what > I remember the hardware is very simple and most of the work > is done in > the firmware which runs on the uProf's Z80. > > There's some other info in the manual, such as the printer mechanism > timing. Unfortuately, it's going to take me a bit of time to > find said > manual... If I remember I've got 2 manuals at home that are *this* easy to find so I'll dig 'em out hopefully today...... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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X10 revived - looking for modules, switches, etc

by rhblakeman＠kih.net

Anyone have a stash of cheap excess modules, switches, etc for X10/BSR/etc. I know people mentioned sometime ago that they have bought boxes full of stuff for a few bucks but I don't have those same resources here and am setting up an "easier way of life" for my 64 yr old mother in law that has trouble getting around and forgets to turn lights off, falls asleep with the TV on, etc. I have the 2 way module to the PC and a remote that she can use but wall switches, appliance and lamp modules, etc are still needed. Email me direct if you have excess and want to make space. We can either work a cash deal or trade as I have lots of PS/2 equipment around and some older IBM PC equipment I can trade with. Thanks in advance.

23 years, 11 months

2
2
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What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > My wife and I just picked up a VAX 4000-500 for my Christmas gift. > The reply from the guy loading the car when he found out it > was for Christmas: > "Whatever makes you happy, man" > So what is everyone else on the list asking for? Computer > related... of > course..... Well, money's a little tight so I'm not getting much computer-related stuff, but I did buy an SGI Indy for my fiancee. ;) She's getting very impatient for it to arrive too. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

7
7
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9-Tracks Drives, especially Overland Data

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 23, 12:50, Zane H. Healy wrote: > A while back I managed to get a nice little Overland Data OD5612 SCSI > 9-Track tape drive. [...] > Anyway I just noticed something. It's got a selector switch on it for > 1600bpi and 6250bpi. Am I correct in assuming that this means that I can > only read those two formats? I don't know anything about that specific drive, but I'd guess the answer is "yes". It might do 3200, which is phase-encoded like 1600, but probably not 800, which is NRZI and needs different electronics (and is actually harder to do reliably, according to some manufacturers). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Cp/m page zero was not required for the os functionality only commonality. The best worst example was the TRS-80 version that had page zero relocated +16k higher to allow for the fixed rom, keyboard and video IO. The aspects of CP/M that would work for a 6502 (or any cpu) are the dynamic filespace allocation and the standized IO interface (BIOS) concept. there are other aspects but the file IO and system IO concepts were the strong points. Ah, and you found the hidden register bug in the z80. You can select either absolutely but, you cannot know which was in use save by some arcane test procedure. Works ok if your building software and enforcing a protocal for use but a multitasking OS where random routines may use one of the other is a mess. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, December 23, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >For some time I've occasionally contemplated a translator from 8080 syntax to >6502, just for mental masturbation. I don't consider the Z80 a worthy target >for such translation/emulation because half its internal resources are only >accessible via the most extreme of artifice. (It has a redundant register set, >at considerable cost, yet doesn't seem to have any way of telling the running >software which of the two sets it's using.) It wouldn't be terribly difficult >to assign register space to the 6502 zero page in locations corresponding with >some not used by CP/M on the 8080. That might prove an interesting way to cook >up a useable OS for the 6502. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 5:21 AM >Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) > > >> On Dec 22, 4:44, Ben Franchuk wrote: >> > Richard Erlacher wrote: >> > > >> > > Let's leave compilers out of the equation. Even the same small-C >> compiler, >> > > targeted at the two quite different CPU's potentially represent a >> significant >> > > skew in favor of one or another of the two. >> > > >> > How can you have skew? That is the whole idea of benchmark is to >> > compare >> > two machines. I would expect that the simple C that was given would be a >> > good test >> > when judged with other benchmarks. >> >> For a comparison of two development systems, maybe, but not for a simple >> comparison of processors. You'll find that the compilers were written >> differently for the different processors. As likely as not, one will be >> better at certain things than another, or better on one processor. >> >> For example, gcc does fairly poorly on a PDP-11 or an SGI machine (SGI's cc >> will run rings round gcc for MIPS in almost every respect) yet works very >> well on an x86 achitecture, because that's where the major development was >> done. If you take a compiler written for one chip, say a Z80, a straight >> port will produce poor code for a 6502 because you have to think about >> things in a different way, and this will be more apparent with a simple >> compiler than sophisticated one. >> >> -- >> Pete Peter Turnbull >> Network Manager >> University of York >> >> >

23 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

Appletalk h/w

by jrasite＠eoni.com

Does anyone on the list want a pile of Appletalk tranceivers and cabling? I came into a box 18x18x36 of it and would rather give it away than pay to take it to the landfill. This is not Localtalk, but jan-u-wine AT. Round connectors, not RJ11. If anyone wants it for the price of postage, drop me a line. Jim

23 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

AN/UYKs

by aw288＠osfn.org

I recently aquired a small number of military Data General clones called AN/UYK-19(V) and AN/UYK-64(V). These are Rolm and Loral machines. Does anyone have any information about them? William Donzelli aw288(a)osfn.org

23 years, 11 months

3
6
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HP 1000E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> >Most of the cards in the machine you ahve are pretty good -- the >HS terminal will let you connect to a crt or a serial PC port with >a terminal emulator... > I did find a HP cable with a 24 pin card edge connector on one end and a 25 pin D connector on the other. The 25 pin connector only has a few pins in it (typical of HP serial cables) including 2, 3, 7, 13,and 25. I traced the wires back to where they would appear on the HS terminal card and it appear that I have the right cable for the box. At least I won't have to kludge togerther a cable. WhooHoo. I have plenty of dumb terminals laying around including a number of old HPs. So, based on your message, it sounds like I have everything necessary to make the computer "talk" to a terminal. >If you would like, I can send you a real short program >that you can key infrom the console that makes the >lights blink... This would be great! Another question: I'm assuming the placement of the cards in the cage determines the "Address" or LU of the card. Does it matter which slots the cards go in or is there an accepted standard for this? Which slot does the HS terminal card (console) go in? Thanks Again, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

23 years, 11 months

2
1
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URL for "The Wench Bench"

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Interenting topic. How the hell do you build electronics that survives 15000G ! Got any technical info on RF proximity fuses ? I read somewhere that they used the capacitance between shell nozecone and target to pull the osc off frequency, a bit like a Theramin. BTW, the Germans developed a remotely controlled TV guided bomb during WW2. Luckily for the allies the picture broke up as the bomb approached its target and development was stopped. Chris

23 years, 11 months

7
7
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Solace 3.0

by frustum＠pacbell.net

Ho, Ho, Ho -- Just in time for Christmas, it's Solace 3.0. Free Sol's for everyone! This version of my Sol emulator fixes a few small bugs (including the fact that the last release broke the ability to save to virtual tapes in real-time mode). More importantly, it adds very low level emulation of a DS/DD Northstar disk system. You can run CP/M 2.2 as well as NSDOS. The emulator comes with a few virtual disk images, including a collection of Sol-relevant files culled from the CPMUG archives. Solace home page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace.html Sol home page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html ----- Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net

23 years, 11 months

1
0
0 0

9-Tracks Drives, especially Overland Data

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

A while back I managed to get a nice little Overland Data OD5612 SCSI 9-Track tape drive. I'm looking into getting it put somewhere that I can actually use it should I want (well that and I needed the spot it was for a couple of S-Bus expansion chassis). Anyway I just noticed something. It's got a selector switch on it for 1600bpi and 6250bpi. Am I correct in assuming that this means that I can only read those two formats? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

23 years, 11 months

1
0
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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 4:44, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Let's leave compilers out of the equation. Even the same small-C compiler, > > targeted at the two quite different CPU's potentially represent a significant > > skew in favor of one or another of the two. > > > How can you have skew? That is the whole idea of benchmark is to > compare > two machines. I would expect that the simple C that was given would be a > good test > when judged with other benchmarks. For a comparison of two development systems, maybe, but not for a simple comparison of processors. You'll find that the compilers were written differently for the different processors. As likely as not, one will be better at certain things than another, or better on one processor. For example, gcc does fairly poorly on a PDP-11 or an SGI machine (SGI's cc will run rings round gcc for MIPS in almost every respect) yet works very well on an x86 achitecture, because that's where the major development was done. If you take a compiler written for one chip, say a Z80, a straight port will produce poor code for a 6502 because you have to think about things in a different way, and this will be more apparent with a simple compiler than sophisticated one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

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M8650 async board problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 23:15, Tony Duell wrote: > As the fault wasn't on the M8650, why did they cut that track? Did they > just never want interrupts? I've no idea. It wasn't cut by the previous owner; he doesn't know why either. > > However the fault, for those who're still reading, wasn't really the M8650 > > itself. There were two problems. At some point, I had unplugged the > > serial cable from the Berg connector, so there was noise on the serial > > input, which upset the diagnostics. The second problem was that the PSU > > And adding an 'antenna' (as in the serial cable) actually helps this? The proper cable has a jumper in the Berg connector to enable the EIA part of the circuit. It connects the 1489 output to the first gate in the receiver section. Without the jumper, the input to that gate floats, and hence picks up all sorts of noise. I wouldn't be surprised if I could pick Radio 2 up on that :-) > > +5V was down to about 4.5V, which isn't great for TTL. I'd checked the > > This has caught me so often when repairing DEC machines. The PSUs set up > fine on no-load and drop to 4V to 4.5V when loaded. And this causes the > most _amazing_ faults. Yes, and I should have known better. I realised something of the sort was amiss when I found that moving cards between front and rear backplanes made a difference. With everything in the front, the +5V went down to less than 4.3V. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

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X10 revived - looking for modules, switches, etc

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Anyone have a stash of cheap excess modules, switches, etc for X10/BSR/etc. >I know people mentioned sometime ago that they have bought boxes full of >stuff for a few bucks but I don't have those same resources here and am >setting up an "easier way of life" for my 64 yr old mother in law that has >trouble getting around and forgets to turn lights off, falls asleep with the >TV on, etc. I have the 2 way module to the PC and a remote that she can use >but wall switches, appliance and lamp modules, etc are still needed. Email >me direct if you have excess and want to make space. We can either work a >cash deal or trade as I have lots of PS/2 equipment around and some older >IBM PC equipment I can trade with. Thanks in advance. I don't have any that is partable (I don't have much stuff right now at all, and the few things I do have are tied up in heavy use). But, I have found X10.com has cheap prices on packages, in many cases for just a few bucks, you can get a full setup, and they run specials on a regular basis that practically give stuff away. They have a newsletter for the specials, but they tend to send out emails TOO often, so use an email account you don't care about being spammed if you sign up (and I am fairly sure they passed my addy on to others... fortunatly, I NEVER sign up for those kinds of things except under certain accounts that are already heavly spammed) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

The most common reason for not using an hll is that unless the compiler is well written and optimizing you see the compiler not the cpu. Small C was a good language but the result was often so poor that even a small amount of hand optimization was easy to accomplish. For a cpu like 6502, this tended to be more true as many of the things the C language likes just dont map to cpu instruction set that directly. Same was true for most of the Z80 versions of small C as most treated it as an 8080 and didnt use the more useful instrucitons. As tot he PDP-11 that was the consumate C machine at the instruction set level. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, December 22, 2001 9:40 PM Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >> Let's leave compilers out of the equation. Even the same small-C compiler, >> targeted at the two quite different CPU's potentially represent a significant >> skew in favor of one or another of the two. >> >> Dick >How can you have skew? That is the whole idea of benchmark is to >compare >two machines. I would expect that the simple C that was given would be a >good test >when judged with other benchmarks. The 8080/Z80/8086 all generate the >same poor >code. This surprised me as shows how poor the 16 bit intel product was. >The PDP-11 >version was rather nice but it even has a few quirks. >-- >Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- >www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html >PS. Note all my FPGA machines generate nice 'Small C' code and have a >resonably orthogonal instruction set. The well hacked Small C compiler >self compiles under >24 KB. A similar compiler for the 8080 is about 48KB.

23 years, 11 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/22/01 Chris Leyson writes: >> How about a straight insertion bubble sort ? A completely useless task but it >> does take a defined number of data moves and compare operations. The array >> to be sorted could be say, 16-bit signed integer, 1k words long and in reverse >> order. (That should take a while for a 6502 to sort out). In a reply dated 12/22/01 Richard Erlacher writes > Yes, maybe something of that sort would be appropriate. Testing it on 8-bit, > and then 16-bit quantities might be just the thing for testing the relative > ability, in spite of architectural differences, of handling longer data. I'd > suggest that larger records might be more appropriate, i.e. 32-byte records, > etc. OK 8-bit and 16-bit data is appropriate but would require separate algorithms. As for record length I would suggest at least 1k (1024) entries. (Eliminates base page cheating) > BTW, when I was in college, which I realize was some time ago, but, back then, > Bubble Sort and Insertion Sort were two different algorithms ... I don't > remember the differences, but will check my old texts, though they're in > Sanskrit ... Apologies, that should have read insertion sort OR bubble sort. Bubble sort runs through the array comparing adjacent values and swaps them whereas insertion sort moves an array member until it's in the right place. In terms of performance they are both slow algoritms. Here is the code from Numerical Recipies for an insertion sort (Fortran and C) Sorts an array arr(1:n) into ascending numerical order, by straight insertion. n is input; arr() is replaced on output by its sorted rearrangement. integer n real arr(n) integer i,j real a do j=2,n a=arr(j) do i=j-1,1,-1 if (arr(i).le.a) goto 10 arr(i+1)=arr(i) end do i=0 10 arr(i+1)=a end do { int i,j; float a; for (j=2;j<=n;j++) { a=arr[j]; i=j-1; while (i>0 && arr[i] > a ); arr[i+1] = arr[i]; i--; } arr[i=1]=a; } } Ignore the floats and reals for the data, they should be ints or chars for the purposes of our 6502/Z80 benchmark. Just for the hell of it, I will try this out in DSP56300 assembler. Chris

23 years, 11 months

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Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD

by mhstein＠usa.net

Re AIM printers: I assume you're talking about the 20 col printer and not the -40; I've got a pile of these (not necessarily working, alas), but no markings on them other than Rockwell's. FWIW, the same printer was used by National Semi in at least one of their printing calcs, and I used to snap those up at junk shops for $5.00, a welcome discovery after having paid $150 ea for them from Rockwell & Dynatem. The 40 col model (very similar construction) was made in Japan, FWIW. Maybe there's still a helpful old-timer at Dynatem who could help you out; also, I assume you know that the AIM was disguised as a Siemens PC100 on the other side of the pond. mike --------Original Message-------------- From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)bigfoot.com> Subject: Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD <snip> Just out of interest, what sort of printer mech does the AIM-65 use? I'm not condoning the destruction of a perfectly good AIM-65 just to find this out, but I would like to know (in case anyone has a parts list for the AIM). Thanks again. - -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/

23 years, 11 months

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CoCo & MOS books

by mhstein＠usa.net

Sorry 'bout that ;( Yeah, I've wished for a time machine myself a few times recently; been kicking myself as well over some of the stuff I've tossed. mike ---------------Original Message------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 02:20:39 -0700 From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: CoCo & MOS books M H Stein wrote: > > Three more books available: > > RS TRS-80 Color Computer Technical Reference Manual 26-3193, 69 pages > > RS TRS-80 MC-10 Micro Color Computer Service Manual 26-3011, 47 pages > (Photocopy purchased from RS) > > MOS Technology MCS6500 Microcomputer Family Programming Manual, Jan '76, > 8 1/2x11, approx. 200 pages. Will throw in Synertek 6500 & 6500B data > sheets full of timing and cycle time info so you can join the > fascinating (!) discussion presently raging among Dick, Allison & Ben. Sure now you tell me 10 years I last had a COCO. You would not believeb the old computers I have thrown out do to 1) lack of software. 2) lack of docs when they break. Mind you most of the computers have been $10 specials but they would have been nice to keep. Also a lot of data-books and old byte and kilabaud magazines that I would have liked to keep got too wet in storage. The 6809 is the cleanest cpu for opcodes and for timing too. And to add to the chaos the FPGA cpu's I am building have even another variation in memory access - a 6809 style access with good setup and hold characteristics. - -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

23 years, 11 months

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HP 1000/E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Took deliveery of my "New" HP 1000/E last week and yes Virgina, there really is a Santa Clause. For those who would bash eBay, here's proof that there are good deals to be had. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1294677875 Obviously there are no disks or OS but otherwise, the computer seems to be complete. Considering it's age, it's in remarkably good condition. All the cards aand covers are in place, very clean inside. Cool! I powered the thing up and it seems to work. I have absolutely no experience with these machines so, I really can't say for sure. When powered up, some of the lights do come on and I can select different registers and toggle data in and out. So... What's next? I'd really like to see it do "something" even if it's only blinking a coule of the lights. If someone could provide a SIMPLE routine to make it do that, I'd be grateful. Once again, I don't have any exposure with this thing so, I'll need pretty explicit instructions. I'm not familiar with all the cards but, from what I can tell, there is no ASYNC card in the box. I think it was originally used with a HPIB terminal. I do have some HP terminals but, none of them have HPIB interfaces. If anyone has a ASYNC card the'd be willing to part with, please let me know. I'm not sure what the licensing issues are but, would really like to find a OS for the system. I've got plenty of HPIB disks, tapes drives, etc... so copying the OS shouldn't be an issue. If anyone can provide a reasonable solution to getting the OS, once again, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the help and Happy holidays to all, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 11 months

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M8650 async board problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 23, 1:22, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Dec 22, 23:15, Tony Duell wrote: > > > As the fault wasn't on the M8650, why did they cut that track? Did they > > just never want interrupts? > > I've no idea. It wasn't cut by the previous owner; he doesn't know why > either. I've just realised something. The machine was used in a real-time process control system in the pharmaceutical industry. If that system was designed as a "hard" real-time system, then interrupts would be verboten, as then it would be impossible to calculate the worst-case execution times for scheduling routines. I guess this was built not very long after the Flixborough disaster in 1974 -- an event still used as an example in safety-critical systems design courses. My guess is the designers just eliminated all the unlikely problems they could, as well as the likely ones. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

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D*A*T*A* I*/*O* M*a*n*u*a*l*s

by mranalog＠attbi.com

CLeyson(a)aol.com wrote: > Try http://www.spies.com/arcade/TE/index.html for the 29A programmer. > Lots of other goodies there too :-) Well DAMN. I thought I was supplying files not on the web yet. Thanks for the link. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =========================================

23 years, 11 months

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ROM preservation (Dataman S4)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Apologies - my calling the S4 an overpriced toy was out of order. It is a very compact programmer and will program just about anything. I just never liked them - I could never manage to press the right buttons to get it to do what I wanted - and then the battery went flat :-( Just me being dumb. Chris

23 years, 11 months

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DEC Support & Service CDs (was PDP 11/34 Console & cards)

by fcharp＠rogers.com

Okay, so I dug a tad deeper into the DEC service CD-ROMs and found a lot there. In terms of manuals, the 2 CDs include no less than... 852 (!) PDF-encoded manuals -- yes, that's 525 on one CD and the balance on the other. Remember the VAX technical library room? Ours was covered with orange manuals wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling.. Well I have the feeling that these 2 disks contain all of those and then some. The manuals cover everything from operator's manuals to CPU programmers reference, diagrams, bulletins. DECserver, Alpha desktops, storage units. And that's just for manuals. The disks also contain software libraries that include bios, drivers, etc... The index files alone take a fair bit of room. I thought for a minute that I could post them here, but I gave up as soon as I saw the size of them. So.... If you are interested in the index files, email me. I will have a run of disks made. NOT FOR SALE, only giveaways. I'll seed 5 or 10 of those who want it, and they can take it from there and pay forward by obliging other people. Cheers and all that sort of things, Frederic Charpentier P.S.: now, if only this kind of documentation archive existed for S-100 systems... Almost makes you want to take up VAX systems. Then again, I'd probably need to somewhat upgrade my home electrical switchbox. Or I could move next to a nuclear power plant...

23 years, 11 months

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ROM preservation (Data I/O system 19)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Dave McGuire writes: > If you're serious about programmable devices, Data I/O is the only > real choice in my opinion. The company's policies leaves a bit to be > desired...their software updates are prohibitively expensive, and it's > nearly impossible to use their earlier programmers without docs > because you need to translate chip part numbers to "device numbers" to > enter into the programmer...but other than that the boxes are great. I agree with Dave, Data I/O were, and probably still are, THE recommended manufacturer for programmers. The system 19 with the Unipack fitted will program 16, 18, 20, 24 and 28 pin DIL packages. It will also handle 2704's and 2708's with odd programming voltages. If anyone ever needs any help with this programmer I've got the manuals including schematics. Chris Leyson

23 years, 11 months

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F/S: Atari Model CX-2600 and More

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Sellam Ismail wrote > The only thing it has going for it is the original box. Hmm... I sort of agree. It's a classic games machine just like the C64 or Sinclair Spectrum. OK it ain't a number crucher but it's still a classic and introduced a lot of people to computing (hopefully). Chris Leyson

23 years, 11 months

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[geeks] IBM RS/6000 7012-3XX

by wilby98＠yahoo.com

I will be heading to a computer market tomorrow in Amsterdam and am on the lookout for an IBM RS/6000 7012-3XX type box. I found quite a bit of technical information at the IBM web site but was interested in a few other details. Assuming I find one: 1. How important is it that it have a key? 2. How important is it that it have media or able to boot up? (Can I download and install the appropriate version somewhere?) 3. What is an approximate cash value? 4. Are components easy to come by or should I really take a look to make sure everything is there? Thank you, Bill Amsterdam, NL _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks

23 years, 11 months

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how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, I have that itching to start up my new PDP8/A even without disks attached. Have a programmers console, so that's enough to enter a few programs. It's intriguing to see a machine with a simple input method and convenient IO programming abstractions, it is possible to bootstrap this system entirely >from scratch with only a manual. But first I need to give this thing a good cleaning. A friend has assured me that there's nothing better than the dishwasher, with the exception of big capacitors and, what about magnetic core memory? So, how should I clean the RAM cards? How the DC power supply units? If I put the other stuff in the dishwasher, I know there should be no detergent and no heat dry. But what about the rinsing aid, do I have to pump this out of the reservoir? I heard of another method using hand-washing first, then drying and finally a bath in Isopropanol. Is that what I should do with the core memory cards? Finally, finally, I noticed that the cards are all slightly bent from being kept in a horizontal position. They are sagging a little, like a hammock. Would that be a cause of concern in the long run? Should I mount the chassis in an upright position in the future? any other things I should know? -Gunther PS: I am probably going to make one "portable" PDP-8, where the console is mounted on the chassis and the rest of the opening covered plus a handle on the top. That would be neat for bringing into the classroom to teach fundamentals of computer programming, wouldn't it? -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

23 years, 11 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 1:16, Ben Franchuk wrote: > CLeyson(a)aol.com wrote: > <snip> > > Here is the code from Numerical Recipies for an insertion sort (Fortran and C) > <snip> > Do they have the "Small C Compiler" for the 6502? I know you can get a > Z80 or 8080 > compiler under CP/M. Note the version #1 does not have for or && > instructions. It wouldn't really be fair to use a compiler for the code to compare processors. You'd end up testing the relative merits of two compilers as much as testing the processors. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

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ROM preservation

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 18:06, CLeyson(a)aol.com wrote: > Neil Cherry writes: > > > I really like the Dataman S4, my friends use it pretty heavily in a > > very unfriendly environment. > > When the battery goes flat so does the processor so to speak and you can't > turn on the battery charge electronics ! You have to take the case apart and > "hot wire" the battery. I've always thought of the Dataman as an overpriced > toy. I've used S4's quite a lot, and I seem to recall there's a way to deal with that without opening it up. I've certainly recharged them from totally flat/won't turn on. As for price, they're about the same as other comparble devices, at least in the UK. And they can do PALs GALs serial PROMs and other mildly exotic things. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

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Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD

by philpem＠bigfoot.com

Hi, I've managed to acquire a few Multitech Micro-Professor printers and I'd like to know just how the heck to use them. I've managed to partially decipher the schematic, but I can't get the *ing ROM to dump. I've got it hooked up to a 74HC4040 12-bit binary counter and a Microchip PIC16F874 microcontroller. The hex data the PIC snaffled from the ROM contains some instructions, but most of it is filled with zeroes. Anyone got a ROM dump >from the "PRT-MPF" or "PRT-MPF-IP" boards? All my boards appear to be later-version ones, with Fujitsu 2732 EPROMs onboard. Also, has anyone got scanned copies of the MPF-IP (Micro-Professor mainboard) user's guide, monitor ROM dump, memory map, schematics, etc? I'd love to try my hand at writing an MPF emulator, but I don't have an MPF in my collection. I'd also like to get hold of one of each of the following: Synertek SYM-1 Rockwell AIM-65 (with printer) MOS KIM-1 Ideally, I'd also like the manuals, but if they're AWOL it doesn't matter too much - I'll just snaffle them from Rich Cini's webpage and print them off :-) BTW, the MPF printers seem to be quite plentiful - Greenweld UK appear to have plenty in stock. I've also got the Technical Reference for the Seiko Instruments MTP201-20B printer module that Multitech used on the MPF printer - just in case anyone's interested :-). There's only one minor thing about them - do NOT, under ANY circumstances, activate the head for longer than 1.5mS - it WILL burn out. Just out of interest, what sort of printer mech does the AIM-65 use? I'm not condoning the destruction of a perfectly good AIM-65 just to find this out, but I would like to know (in case anyone has a parts list for the AIM). Thanks again. -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/

23 years, 11 months

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M8650 async board problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

I've fixed it. On Dec 20, 19:36, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete wrote: > > Now I'm really puzzled. After spending the evening playing with my > > serial board, and armed with the pinouts this time, I still have an > > interrupt problem. > Be warned DEC can be confusing here. For example on the schematics, pin 8 > of the FF is shown as Q and pin 9 as Q/. But that's because the D input > on pin 12 has an inverting 'bubble'. And of course the Set and Reset pins > are therefore the other way round to what you'd expect. The confusion comes mostly from the Maintenance Manual. Thanks to David Gesswien for scanning the KL8-E printset, and Tony's description of the pinout labelling, I worked out what should be happening. > That's the problem, I think. DEC's data bus is active low. Or that's how > it appears to me. Indeed, and that's what I expected. The Handbook doesn't show the data bus signals as active low, whereas it does secifically show 'L' after other active-low signals. Nevertheless, like most other open-collector type busses, the Omnibus is active low. > > Should I just swap the connections to the SET and CLR, and Q and not-Q on > > the 7474? Or am I missing something? > > No (!). It worked once as it is now, so it can work again. Find out if > you can ever make the Q/ output of that FF low, and if not, why not. Are > you getting a pulse on the clock pin when you execute a KIE instruction? > What is the D pin doing? They all seemed to be doing something, just not necessarily the *right* something, when I first mailed the list. I wasn't sure it actually *had* worked properly; I wondered if there could be an ECO missing. Certainly it hadn't worked for a long time, and presumably that was why someone had cut the INT RQST L track a long time ago. However the fault, for those who're still reading, wasn't really the M8650 itself. There were two problems. At some point, I had unplugged the serial cable from the Berg connector, so there was noise on the serial input, which upset the diagnostics. The second problem was that the PSU +5V was down to about 4.5V, which isn't great for TTL. I'd checked the voltage when I reassembled the machine, but it didn't have a full complement of boards in it at that time, and the additional load made it droop due to several not-too-tight connections between PSU, power cables, and backplane. I've since cleaned them up extra carefully, and tightened the connections, and readjusted the PSU to give 4.9V on the front backplane and just over 5V on the rear one (the difference is due to different loads on the two parts). Now KIE with AC11=0 turns interrupts off, as does CAF and the CLEAR switch, and KIE with AC11=1 turns them on, and it passes all the diagnostics. Oh, and FOCAL 69 runs fine :-) Now onward to OS/8 and some RX01s... Thanks to everyone whose suggestions or websites helped me get this far: David, Kevin, Tony, Allison, Ethan, Doug, Zane, the other Kevin, and Nabil. And probably others I've forgotten. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

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ROM preservation

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Neil Cherry writes: > I really like the Dataman S4, my friends use it pretty heavily in a > very unfriendly environment. When the battery goes flat so does the processor so to speak and you can't turn on the battery charge electronics ! You have to take the case apart and "hot wire" the battery. I've always thought of the Dataman as an overpriced toy. Chris Leyson

23 years, 11 months

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ROM preservation

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 21, Christopher Smith wrote: > I've been thinking recently that I should possibly get a ROM reader/writer > so that I can preserve the ROMs out of all my old parts, and I was wondering > whether anyone had some experiences (good or bad) with any different > programmers? > > Which programmers are good, which aren't so good, and why? If you're serious about programmable devices, Data I/O is the only real choice in my opinion. The company's policies leaves a bit to be desired...their software updates are prohibitively expensive, and it's nearly impossible to use their earlier programmers without docs because you need to translate chip part numbers to "device numbers" to enter into the programmer...but other than that the boxes are great. I have a Data I/O 2900 that I adore. I highly recommend that model, or its big brother, the 3900. > Where is the best place to get one, and which is the best to get on a tight > budget? eBay. Sure, everyone here poo-poos eBay, but face it...it's where you can get anything you want, any time you want. > What about making your own? (Note that I think this may be an interesting > project, but I'd really rather put my time into other things right now, so > this is near the bottom on my list of options...) It's fun, and certainly practical...See early literature by Steve Ciarcia for examples of some simple ones. > One called "Leaper 3" interests me because of its ability to copy one ROM to > another without any kind of computer hookup, which I imagine might be > useful, but I know nothing else about it. Ahh, a "real" device programmer. :-) I despise those dumb things that can't do anything unless connected to a PeeCee running Windows...totally useless to those of us who use real computers and don't allow Windows boxes in our homes. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 11 months

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Sellam in the news...

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>Hey, cool! Any chance of getting a copy >sent to me for my vanity file? http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opbooks.jsp?id=ns232110 Antonio

23 years, 11 months

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Fwd: F/S: Atari Model CX-2600 and More

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I don't know what it's worth, but I'm posting it in case it's a decent deal. Doc From: "Bill" <WVIVERETTE(a)houston.SPAMrr.com> Newsgroups: houston.forsale,houston.wanted,austin.forsale, tx.forsale,misc.forsale.computer,misc.forsale-computers Subject: F/S: Atari Model CX-2600 and More Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:51:11 GMT Vintage 1978 Video Computer System by Atari Model CX-2600 Serial Number 8150545 Woodgrain 6-switch model Good Working Condition Includes: Original Box 8 games (4 with manuals) 4 Joysticks (2 work fine, 2 work some) 3 Paddle Wheel Sets (6 paddles - 3 work, 3 don't) AC Power Adapter TV RF Connector 1981 Atari Game Catalog Looks from e-Bay that it should bring $50-$70 Also, another entire 4-switch System if you want TWO! E-mail if interested. Pictures available. Available in Houston, TX Will ship if buyer pays shipping and insurance

23 years, 11 months

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Unidentified 80-pin 32M modules

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Hi. The shop I buy a lot of custom stuff from gave me (not free, on spec) some 80-pin RAM modules. Mel thought they would run in the VS4000/60, and the form-factor is identical. They seat perfectly in the memory slots, and the locator-pin holes are right. Except the Vax won't boot at all with that memory installed. I've looked around on the web, and can't identify them. There are 2 paper labels: a QC label with 2 lines, the first line varies, the second line is the same on all: UNI00-20533-064 and a small label with what looks like a DEC/Compaq part number: 33522947-001 Does anybody know what those are? and/or need them? Doc

23 years, 11 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

When you get over it... Talking about 20mhz 65C02s and other "fast" parts that didn't exist when even the z180 (orginally 64180) was introduced is equally bogus. A Pentuim anything running a Z80 emulator is still emulation and not native silicon. Now cut the crap. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, December 21, 2001 7:06 PM Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >We went through all this a couple of years back under the same heading. If the >Z235980 at 234 THz is code compatible then, if I understand you correctly, it IS >a Z80, right? Even though the Z180 won't fit in a Z80 socket, you'd sell it as >a Z80 anyway, right? Even though it didn't even exist back when it mattered, >you still insist it's a Z80, right? > >My Pentium executes the Z80 code just fine at about 75x the speed of of a Z80. >Does that mean it's a Z-80? > >We're comparing CHIPS, not philosophical constructs. If it IS a Z80, or Mostek >3480, or something else EXACTLY a Z80, i.e. built under the license, >pin-compatible, code-compatible, etc. then MAYBE it's germane to this >discussion. No chip that isn't a pin-compatible substitute commonly referred to >as a Z80 back in the days when the Z80 mattered is germane to this topic. If it >won't plug into the socket of a Z80, FORGET IT, because it's not a Z80. If >that's too difficult for you, then please ask an adult why a 47-ohm resistor >isn't the same thing as a 75-ohm resistor. > >I'm sure glad you're not trying to sell parts any more, Allison. I'd hate to >have to argue with you that the choke you're trying to pitch isn't a diode. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ajp166" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 4:24 PM >Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) > > >> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> >> >> >There are lots of things that you could compare, but the first things >> you've got >> >to leave out are the ones that aren't a Z80, which immediately deletes >> the Z180, >> >and Z280. The Z80 is not around any more than the 6502 is around. >> There are >> >> >> Why? they are still z80 core and code compatable. While they add things >> like >> serial IO, timers and MMU they are Z80, maybe more so than 65C02. >> >> Allison >> >> >> > >

23 years, 11 months

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/22/01 Richard Erlacher writes: > If you want to insist that you can devise a task, any task at all, mind you, > that you can code in Z80 code to run at 2x the clock rate of a 6502, in, say, > <80 lines of assembler, that's strictly a computing task, just to leave I/O out > of it, or any I/O task that you think you can code in legitimate Z80 > instructions, providing a precise spec for the I/O task, then I'd certainly come > out and say you can't cook a legitimate one up that a 6502 can't accomplish in > less time, in the case of the computing task, and that, since the I/O task spec > limits the rate, the 6502 will be able to do it as well. I'd like to see a task > that meets those spec's How about a straight insertion bubble sort ? A completely useless task but it does take a defined number of data moves and compare operations. The array to be sorted could be say, 16-bit signed integer, 1k words long and in reverse order. (That should take a while for a 6502 to sort out). Chris

23 years, 11 months

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What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by djenner＠earthlink.net

Doesn't the DQ614 emulate the RL01/RL02? Can't you just use the RL device hander? Dave SP wrote: > > One Dilog DQ614 driver disk for RT-11. I have > one of these boards inoperative because I can't > configure it. > > Happy Christmas (if applicable) > > Greetings > > Sergio -- David C. Jenner djenner(a)earthlink.net

23 years, 11 months

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Pyramid 90x

by pechter＠ureach.com

Here's what I know about the 90x... I haven't worked with Pyramid gear in about 9 years so I may be dropping a few bits. The machine loads COS the diagnostic software from an 80 track 96 tpi 5 1/4 disk. This contains the support software to download the necessary code into the machine to make it boot. The operating system is OS/x (a BSD 4.2 or 4.3 and SysV rel 2 or 3 hybrid). I'd love to get a machine running that around so I could figure out how they do the dual universe stuff so I could do it with FreeBSD. I used to teach OS/x Operations, Sys Admin, Comm and such for Pyramid and I also taught maintenance on their MIS series boxes. I had a 98x (IIRC) in the office which was similar to the 90x. Bill -- Bill Pechter Systems Administrator uReach Technologies 732-335-5432 (Work) 877-661-2126 (Fax) ---- On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, Dan Cohoe (dancohoe(a)oxford.net) wrote: > I recently brought home a Pyramid 90x. The old owner who had run the > machine at his work in the 80's bought it from his employer about 1990, > but never got it set up at home. > > Apparently he decided to dump it a few months ago, but because of its > size didn't get the job done. However, he did put all of the software > and the documentation on the curb for the garbagemen at that time. > > Mike Kenzie and I got there just before he called the recyclers for the > machine itself. > > What I need is a boot disk or other software and any documentation that > might be out there. According to the old owner, it starts by loading > the > boot program off the 8" floppy before it can find the fixed disks. > > Does anyone have anything for this machine? > > thanks, Dan Cohoe > > >

23 years, 11 months

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siemens nixdorf laser printer driver for pageprinter model md12

by ROCKYROADENNIS＠aol.com

driver wanted regards rockyroadennis(a)aol.com

23 years, 11 months

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