- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by dougq＠iglou.com

> Doc wrote: > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and > >that seems to be the norm. > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding > against AEK. <grin> There's another guy who bids on virtually everything I want... I "know" him, in that I've personally dealt with him from time to time... I don't think he's a subscriber here, but at any rate, I usually let him have the items, and just shrug it off (like a large removable disk drive subsystem that I honestly would have had trouble with shipping). But I always get a big, big wide grin when AEK bids against the guy, and generally wins... BTW, the guy in question is a decent guy, didn't want to make it seem otherwise, it's just the his collection has no public face of any kind, and so it's like this stuff is just being sucked into a black hole... -dq

24 years, 3 months

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computer sales -- now only on e-bay???

by dougq＠iglou.com

Dick wrote: > > > --- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq(a)iglou.com> wrote: > > > > > Doc wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I > > > > > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and > > > > > >that seems to be the norm. > > > > > > > > > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding > > > > > against AEK. <grin> > > > > > > > > There's another guy who bids on virtually everything I want... > > > > I "know" him, in that I've personally dealt with him from > > > > time to time... I don't think he's a subscriber here, but > > > > at any rate, I usually let him have the items, and just > > > > shrug it off (like a large removable disk drive subsystem > > > > that I honestly would have had trouble with shipping). > > > > > > > > But I always get a big, big wide grin when AEK bids against > > > > the guy, and generally wins... > > > > > > > > BTW, the guy in question is a decent guy, didn't want to > > > > make it seem otherwise, it's just the his collection has > > > > no public face of any kind, and so it's like this stuff > > > > is just being sucked into a black hole... > > > > > Steve wrote: > > > Certainly, I didn't want it to seem as though this was > > > "bad". Al Kossow has won an auction of mine and I > > > think he does have a website with very useful stuff on > > > it. Ebay is a fairly pure form of capitalism. It's > > > just me crying in my beer about not having pockets as > > > deep. Still, if one gets lucky, and finds something > > > misclassified or I can catch someone sleeping > > > (sometimes literally, at 2:00 AM), bargains can STILL > > > be had on eBay. > > > > Oddly enough, eBay should reflect the highest prices. instead, some view it > > as producing the lowest. I'm not sure where this logic comes from. It just depends in the item. There will be no bargain Altairs or IMSAIs on E-Bay. But I'm picking up 9-track magtapes for reasonable prices, albeit slightly more expensive than Mark Tapley has been selling them for (I'm sampling the waters, so to speak). Ditto the more obscure stuff... As to the view that E-Bay *should* produce the lowest prices? No logic involved there, Dick, that's faith on the part of some people in the open hand of Adam Smith- a view I don't share. Comments about the failure of lassie-faire capitalism should be directed to me personally, please... -dq

24 years, 3 months

2
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PDP-11/70 backplane wire list ?

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

Does anyone have a PDP-11/70 backplane wire list? I have both a KB11-B and KB11-C printset and neither of them contain a backplane wire list. --tnx --tom

24 years, 3 months

1
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computer sales -- now only on e-bay???

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > It seems that way. I remember a time when one could find a wide > variety of classic computers advertised on Usenet newsgroups, for sale > to the first person to make a reasonable, or not so reasonable, offer > or pay the advertised price. Some of it was free plus shipping. I've Are you saying that doesn't happen any more? > rather try to conduct their own private auctions or else they post ads > mentioning that they're selling the equipment on e-bay; we see this > happening on classiccmp as well. "Private auctions?" If you mean selling at a price of "best offer," that's probably perfectly reasonable for something of which you can't decide the value. As for posting an add for an ebay auction, I won't say they can't do it, but it annoys me. If I wanted to go to ebay to find the stuff, I would. > One would think that, like the PDP-11s etc. were several years ago, > the AS/400, Aviion, VAX 4000 and Alpha systems, etc. would now be Perhaps it's a "right place, right time" thing. My Aviion was free. Needs something done to repair the clamps in the SIMM socket -- I haven't really got the equipment to solder a SIMM socket, or I'd rip one out of a peesee mainboard for this thing. Of course, it's difficult to find DG/UX for one, once you _have_ this Aviion. :) I've seen VAXStation 4000 systems for very reasonable (sub $100) prices, which is fine, considering how many of them are still in use. You can likely pick up free CISC AS/400s. > Perhaps a number of things: the emphasis on recycling, too many > collectors seeking collectors' items as opposed to hackish toys, sales > of scrap to china, etc. Well, it's kind of conceited to think that everyone wants to be a "computer collector" these days ;) I think the other points -- especially the recycling bit -- are right on. The solution, of course, is to find out where is your local recycling center, and to establish a relationship with somebody there. Many have no problems about selling computer-related trash, especially when they can get more for it than the could by recycling it. If you'll pay them $20 for that VAXStation 4000, you'd probably get it. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Not when there are _good_ techncial reasons for it (like the > fact that > the RL01 can't format a blank pack becuase to make a positioner that > could step accurately enough without reading servo bursts from the > platter would be rediculously expensive). Well, that's different. :) > But when it's done for marketing reasons (so you have to buy the > manufacturer's expensive pre-formatted floppies, as was the > case with the > RX01, etc) then yes, of course it annoys me. ...but this is what I was talking about. Didn't they have "diagnostic" programs available in some cases (to field service) that would cause some of these systems to format their own disks, anyway? I'm certain there was something to get a Qbus VAX to format hard disks -- I mean, aside from a controller that would do it in firmware -- but that's probably a little different. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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FA: HP 9845B Computer/Calculator TMG232 Item # 2026012591

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

FYI HP 9845B, located in Australia. <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2026012591>

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: List bifurcation

by dougq＠iglou.com

On Thursday 16 May 2002 17:14, you wrote: > > Is it just me, or has this list just become rediculously complicated? I > > still don't know where I should be posting anything. And I don't really > > care any more. If people miss out on my messages, well that's their > > problem I'm afraid. Rest assured, Tony, you're coming through loud and clear... > Sacrifice to the God of political correctness we must. Wah, Wah, Waaaaaaaah!! Mommie, mean man won't let me scream! Jeezus, do ya'll want some cheese with that whine? ============================================================ Ok, Since we're OT here anyway, I have a stack of Calcomp Digitab III digitizer tablets, 16-button wireless pucks. Several are tested and packaged for sale, and I've been getting $75 to $150 apiece for them on E-Bay. I'd be interested in some possible trades for more vintage stuff. Please contact me off-list. I also have a limtited number of Kurta tablets for the Mac, with wired pucks, but they'll be out of reach until I can get the storage unit rent caught up. Ditto the off-list expression of interest... -dq

24 years, 3 months

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computer sales -- now only on e-bay??

by dougq＠iglou.com

> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > > Doc wrote: > > > > > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I > > > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and > > > >that seems to be the norm. > > > > > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding > > > against AEK. <grin> > > So who _is_ AEK? Why, non other than "Uncle" Al Kossow... the visionary responsible for the Bitsavers Project, which is archiving as much old computer software and documentation as is humanly possible... -dq

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Rants

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > If someone's views offend you, you can filter them off into a mailbox of their > own, and either read them or not, depending on your mood. That's your right > and privilege, and, perhaps, duty, since it certainly shouldn't be Jay's job > to accomodate everyone's individual preferences, quirks, and foibles. Granted. My error. Glen 0/0

24 years, 3 months

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AppleTalk ISA card

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Anyone out there considering getting rid of an LocalTalk ISA card? I'd prefer the Apple-manufactured version if possible. Let me know off-list if you might be persuaded to part with it. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us! ---------------------

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Davison, Lee" <Lee.Davison(a)merlincommunications.com> > > > >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do > >> is leave a thin trace of metal on the glass. Jewelers > >> rouge will easily remove this is nothing else will. > > This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers > without the rubber. > >All generalisations have exeptions, however it's usually the road >grit and oxides on the end of the blades that do the scratching. True but where are you going to find the really clean metal to rub on the glass? Most surfaces of metals have oxides and other material on them. I was making the point that under real world conditions, one can scratch glass with metal objects. One should not assume it is safe to rub metals on glass. If the pressure is high enough, most hardened metals can scribe glass, even though the glass is harder. This is more related to brittleness. > > And lastly, the quartz windows of the EPROMs > are harder than glass. > >As can be ceramic chip packages and the PCB itself (glass >fiber laminate). > >> I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner. >> >I was. I meant this to be in relation to the UV passing. > >Lee. > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The >information contained in this email may contain information which is >confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender >and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please >delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International >IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ >

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

>> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do >> is leave a thin trace of metal on the glass. Jewelers >> rouge will easily remove this is nothing else will. This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers without the rubber. All generalisations have exeptions, however it's usually the road grit and oxides on the end of the blades that do the scratching. And lastly, the quartz windows of the EPROMs are harder than glass. As can be ceramic chip packages and the PCB itself (glass fiber laminate). > I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner. > I was. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________

24 years, 3 months

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Nice OpenVMS starter system on eBay

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Normally I wouldn't do post here about an auction I spotted on eBay, however, this would make a really killer starter system for someone wanting to try out OpenVMS. I've no idea who the seller is. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2025206674 It's an AlphaStation 200 4/233 with 256MB RAM, a 2GB & 9GB HD, and 24-Bit graphics card, as well as the OpenVMS 7.1-2 distro, and the December 2000 layered products and doc library CD's. BTW, it's been my experience that one of these systems with 256MB RAM rocks (I've got one setup almost like this one). Zane

24 years, 3 months

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E&S PS-390

by pat＠purdueriots.com

Well, I looked at them, and the card cages are empty :(, so I grabbed one for an endtable and a couple boxes of 'accessories' for them, including a keyboard, twiddle box, digitizer tablets, cables, and manuals. Let me know if anyone wants some of these things, I'm asking $10/ea or less if you want >1 thing (all the cables together will probably count as 'one thing'. Even if I haven't listed it, ask me and I'll see if it was included in the three boxes of crap. There's even some VAX software I got with them on 9-track open-reel tape.. -- Pat West Lafayette, IN

24 years, 3 months

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Amiga 4000 with Toaster

by mythtech＠mac.com

What is a fair price to offer for an Amiga 4000 with a Toaster installed? I really don't know Amiga's at all except for what I used of them in the studio as Toasters, but I have always wanted a Video Toaster setup of my own. I found someone offering two of them for sale/trade, but I have no idea what they are worth. Or, does anyone here have one they want to give me for cost of shipping? (I am pretty poor, so I have a feeling I will find they are worth more than I can afford) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 3 months

2
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MicroVAX 3100/90

by bob_lafleur＠technologist.com

I just won a MicroVAX 3100/90 auction on Ebay... The 3100/90 has BNC and AUI network ports. What do I need to use to connect it to my twisted pair hub? Some type of adapter that connects to the AUI port? What's it called and how much should I expect to pay for one? Thanks. - Bob

24 years, 3 months

3
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[CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Erik S. Klein" <classiccmp(a)mail.vintage-computer.com> ---snip--- split octal stuff cut because already answered. ---snip--- > >Why would the address lights on the Altair not properly >correspond to the address switches being set? If I set the >switches at 1110111000000000, for instance, when I reset >then examine the light at A11 doesn?t come on (the lights >show 1110011000000000) even though I know that LED to be >functioning. You'll need to check to see if the address is getting driven to the bus with a meter, logic probe or 'scope. It may just be a bad LED or driver on the panel, it may be a bad switch or some other part of the cicuit. > >Why would the data lights ever show anything but on or off? >I sometimes get dim glows from the data LEDs. When the code is running, they blink faster than your eye see. They may appear dim when toggling fast. > >What data can I expect to be in the RAM on boot-up? Is this >answer different for Static vs. Dynamic RAM? You can't depend on boot up data in either. Most DRAMs will boot with alternating 00/FF data. Sometimes these are in blocks. Most statics tend to be more ramdom but sometimes look similar in patterns to the DRAM. If you don't know if there is RAM at a location, use the front panel controls to change values. If there is RAM there, it will hold the new value you wrote. > >What is the best way to execute the boot loader should I >locate it? Can I set the address switches to the proper >spot and run or do I need to code a simple program that will >?JMP? to the known address? I have a IMSAI but I suspect the sequence would be similar. STOP-RESET-EXAMINE-RUN, w/ address switches set to the boot address. If you do have a panel problem and can't get the address loaded properly, you could put a simple JMP into some RAM that you can access. Toggle in the JMP XXXX and then set the address switches to the JMP instruction and do the EXAMINE-RUN sequence. > >Much of my confusion might stem from the EPROMs themselves >since they may have been erased by time. I have a freshly >burned set on order which may help. I have EPROMs that are over 20 years old that are still holding data. The boot sequence is quite small and it is unlikely to be bad. From what you said earlier, I would suspect that the main problems may be incorrect switch settings or problems with the fron panel. Dwight

24 years, 3 months

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Suggestions for Raw Tape Reading Under Linux?

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

Hi It may be that the bit rate isn't compatable with the controller you have. You might take an oscilliscope and compare the signals coming from the tapes. You may see differences. Dwight >From: "William von Hagen" <vonhagen(a)vonhagen.org> > >Hi. I've been trying to read in a variety of old backup cartridge tapes >as raw data so that I can write some tools to parse them (or port the >old backup software used to write them). This seems to be the easiest >way to explore old backup data from a variety of old machines without >having to fire up the machines themselves. > >Since I'm trying to do this from a Unix (Linux) box, 'dd' was the >obvious first choice, but I don't know things like the block size at >which the tapes were originally written. Ideally, I'd just like to read >raw data from the media, period. I've tried reading the tapes using 'dd' >with a variety of block sizes, but still get zero-length input files. >The drives I'm using to read the data are capabable of the densities at >which they were written, and I understand the Unix/Linux device numbers >- you can hear that the drives are working at the correct density, but >I'm still not getting data. I even wrote a little program to just read >data directly from the raw device, but don't seem to be getting anything >there either.The drives whir and whine, but I get nada. > >Any suggestions? Any utilities you'd suggest rather than 'dd'? Many of >these are non-Unix systems, so 'tar' and 'cpio' aren't appropriate. > >Thanks! > > Bill > >

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] cctalk list

by mark_k＠totalise.co.uk

Hi, I'm quite behind on reading classiccmp postings. Has the classiccmp list been moved to this new cctalk list? I was subscribed to classiccmp in digest mode, and have now been automatically subscribed to cctalk in digest mode. So far so good, except there are about 5 cctalk digests per day. Can the list admin/maintainer set things so one digest message is sent per day, instead of several smaller ones? That kind of defeats the object of having a digest version. -- Mark

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sat, May 18, 2002 at > 08:23:47PM +0100: > > and doubtless somebody will therefore reply to something in > an off-topic > > way in CCTECH. Which will then annoy the CCTECHers... > Indeed. One observation is that often, what seems like a minor Um.. guys, it's moderated. You just can't post off topic stuff to it -- period, err... "full stop." ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

1
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Godbout Econoram X control settings

by frustum＠pacbell.net

After my most recent round of Sol emulator enhancements, I'm finally getting down to adding emulation for the Helios disk system. Part of that effort is going to require me to get some binary disk images in order to make the emulator do something useful. Luckily, I happen to have a Sol stashed away along with a Helios disk system. It was kindly donated to me last summer, but it has been in storage waiting for me to have the time to rehabilitate it. I bought a used varactor and ramped up the power on the Sol itself. No caps blew, and it is now working just fine. At least, it plays TARG OK. I've also replaced the key pads and it is now much a happier than it was. I haven't tried messing with the helios system yet as it is going to require a lot more work (dusting it out, cleaning things, sanity checking it, praying like hell it doesn't need calibration after 20 years of idleness). The system has two "Econoram by Godbout" boards, specifically "Econoram X". Doing some probing of memory locations, it appears that only 48KB of the available 64 KB of SRAM is enabled (each card has 64 4Kx1 SRAM chips). 0x0000 to 0xBFFF is enabled, and the rest is disabled. Of course, part of it must be disabled because 0xC000-0xCFFF is taken up by the monitor ROM, display RAM, and scratch RAM. However, the higher parts should be OK to use. The dip switches on the boards have suggestive labels, but are too terse for me to be confident what is going on. Does anybody have docs on this or similar boards, or perhaps is better at guessing what is going on than I am? I think I understand most of it, but I'm sure I don't understand all of it. First board's dip switch settings: S1: 1: WE A = on 2: WE B = on 3: WE CL = on 4: WE CH = on 5: DIS A = off 6: DIS B = off 7: DIS C = off 8: WS = off S2: 1,2,3 = A = off, off, off 4,5,6 = B = off, off, on 7,8 = C = on, off Second board's dip switch settings: S1: 1: WE A = on 2: WE B = on 3: WE CL = on 4: WE CH = on 5: DIS A = on 6: DIS B = on 7: DIS C = off 8: WS = off S2: 1,2,3 = A = on, on, on 4,5,6 = B = on, on, off 7,8 = C = off, on So it looks like the 32 KB on each board is broken up into three banks. I'm guessing banks A and B control 8 KB blocks, and bank C is a 16 KB block (since S2 has three switches for A and B but bank C has only two switches). WE A/B/C is write enable for each bank, and DIS A/B/C is read&write enable/disable for each of the three banks. Perhaps WS is to enable a wait state. Sounds good so far, so let's collect the bank settings: 0 0 0 A1 = 0- 7, enabled 0 0 1 B1 = 8-15, enabled 1 0 C1 = 32-47, enabled 1 1 1 A2 = 56-63, disabled 1 1 0 B2 = 48-55, disabled 0 1 C2 = 16-31, enabled Does this sound reasonable? At least it is consistent with my interpretation. Does anybody know for sure what WS stands for? One disturbing thing is that the I would have expected one board to implement 0-31KB, and the other board to be used to map 32-47KB. Instead, one board does 0-15 and 32-47, while the other board does 16-31. Any idea why this might be? Finally, does anybody know if this board respects phantom disable (some other resource can claim a block of addresses and the board will silently just map out that RAM location)? Thanks. ----- Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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drivel

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

Which DEC 3000? There were several... (the bird series -- pelican, flamingo, etc). I've used the 3000/300 (same form factor as the DECstation 5000/25), the 3000/400 (a large desktop brick), and the 3000/700 (a tower case). Yes, they are all Turbo-Channel based machines. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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AS/400 Twinax cabling

by Lists＠joules.org

I have finally got round to setting up my AS/400 and would appreciate some advice. It came with one terminal and lots of twinax cable. The terminal has a piece of twinax attached with a T piece on the end of it. There are 2 twinax ports on the back of the AS/400. How do I wire the AS/400 to the terminal? Should I just use 1 port or does it loop through the T piece and back to the other port? Should there be some sort of terminator which I don't have? TIA -- Regards Pete "Time flies like an arrow and fruit flies like a banana"

24 years, 3 months

4
3
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look at the VAX 11/780 in action

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

>For the 780 (and maybe 785) DEC did at one point >sell microprogramming tools. I guess someone might >still have this info, but if they do they're keeping quiet >about it! At one point, years ago, I acquired a set of the tools for doing WCS microprogramming. I may still have them somewhere in my collection, but I have not seen them for awhile. What I do still have is a copy of the WCS user's guide, with explanations of the microprogramming instructions and how to use the micro assembler/loader/debugger. I attempted to make a copy for another member of this list, but the copier damaged several pages (not badly, but I am gun-shy about trying it again, at least with auto-feed). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

24 years, 3 months

1
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VMS help

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I'm trying to mount a disk on vms and getting an error that I don't understand. I'm attempting to mount a disk (a RZ56 on DKA100:), and get the result %MOUNT-F-ILLOPT, qualifier(s) not appropriate to this device to both of my attempts to mount it: MOUNT /OVER=ID DKA100: MOUNT /FOREIGN DKA100: The drive shows up in a SHOW DEV /FULL DKA100: Disk BERNAL$DKA100:, device type RZ56, is online, file-oriented device, shareable, error logging is enabled. Error count 0 Operations completed 3023 Owner process "" Owner UIC [0,0] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWED,O:WRED,G:WRED,W:RWED Reference count 0 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 1299174 Sectors per track 54 Total cylinders 1604 Tracks per cylinder 15 The system came from someone else, and was in a vaxcluster (it's not anymore - I disabled joining a cluster in the boot args for VMS. I've checked in they SYSTEM account's LOGIN.COM file and didn't see any aliases setup for mount. Any ideas? -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

1
1
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Largish computers for sale in PA

by owad＠applefritter.com

I'm a bit unclear on how this new list setup is supposed to work, so my apologies if I've sent this to the wrong list or in the wrong manner. I have a couple of systems for sale in York, PA. I don't want to ship. Email me if you have questions or want to make an offer. Preference is given to people buying more and taking it away sooner. SparcServer 470 Power supply has problems and the cards are stuck in too tight to get them out with the plastic tabs (IIRC, I broke one of the tabs). Nice chassis, though, and aside from the PS, the cards are probably good. Similar to <http://shidahara1.earth.s.kobe-u.ac.jp/shidaharaimage/ workstation2.gif>. DEC 3000 800 This is pretty nice. No keyboard or mouse, but it appears to power up and you might be able to get a terminal working with it. It has an Alpha (RISC) processor and I'm [i]told[/i] 256 MB RAM. The hard drive is something like one or two gigabytes and is supposed to have a BSD installed with the password set to something generic like "password". This was going to be the new Applefritter server but I got fet up with trying to get a terminal to work with it. Looks similar to the two towers in <http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:A8Idr5_kU7MC:www.rz.uni- wuerzburg.de/system/pix/wrzx1415.gif>. DEC 3000 something-or-other This is pretty junky but might have some good parts. Free with the DEC 3000 800. Looks similar to <http://www.g-lenerz.de/images/dec3000-front.jpg>. Altos 3086 This was made into a CAD system by Slice. This is a pretty cool looking setup, has a big drawing tablet, and a huge stack of manuals. Information on the Altos: <http://www.aurigae.demon.co.uk/works.html>. This also comes with a generic PC or a terminal, or something along the lines of that. If you need more details on any of these systems, let me know. Apple Macintosh LC 580 Working and includes ethernet card. I have a couple of these. Things I'm looking for: Apple and Mac clones Neat Apple stuff Amiga 1000 keyboard Whatever I need to get my Altos running (the catch is I don't know what I need yet, though I'll definitley need software for it on 8" disks) Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com

24 years, 3 months

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EXABYYE 8500 + Peripheral Vision card

by dave＠naffnet.org.uk

Hi, I have an EXABYTE 8500 drive with a Peripheral Vision daughter card plugged into the back (along with the LCD display on the tape door) - I am taking a guess that this card provides hardware compression to the 8500, but, without documentation, I am not sure how to configure it. The board has six DIP switches, numbered 1-6 from right to left as you look at the rear of the drive. 1-3 are the SCSI address, and seemingly must match the SCSI address that was configured on the drive itself - fair enough! Switch 4 enables a menu allowing the selection of 2 and 5GB modes, and I understand from googling that, if I was to have a 8500c then I would also be able to bypass the drives internal compression from here. Once more, this is so far perfectly reasonable. All of which leaves switches 5 & 6, the reason for this message - can anyone tell me what (if anything) they do? Many thanks, Dave.

24 years, 3 months

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Testing for Open Relays?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 18, 20:39, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Relay test 3 > > >>> RSET > <<< > > Actually as near as I can tell, the reason test 3 is failing is because VMS > reacted to test 2 by breaking the connection. This seems to be verified by > my results from telneting in on port 25. Looks like it, but it shouldn't do that. It should accept or reject the <spamtest> address and then allow the RSET to reset the envelope. If that's consistent behaviour, and you want to run the rest of the tests, you'll need to find out what they are (or devise equivalents) and do each by hand. Some of them have to be run from a non-local connection, so you might need an accomplice. http://www.sxlist.com/techref/inet/smtpsend.htm has a sample transcript if you want to try individual tests by hand. BTW, there is one shortcoming of the tests -- they check to see if the mail is rejected at the time of the SMTP exchange; some people have argued that it's OK to accept the mail so long as it's not delivered. Personally, I prefer not to have some spammer wasting my resources and I prefer the mail to be rejected at the earliest possible point. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 3 months

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cctalk list (CHANGES)"

by dougq＠iglou.com

> > It's great to hear the suggestions and points that Sellam and Jerome bring > > up in their last few posts. > > > > I just wish they would have brought up these points weeks ago when I brought > > up the ideal of the split lists. Would have been nice to ponder their input > > back then. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Sorry Jay, but if you think I can remember what I said even > yesterday, let alone a few days ago, then you have a lot to > look forward to when you get to be a senior. <Sigh> You've been married 45 years before you got to this point, I'm 45 years old and I'm there already. Will I even remember I used to work with computers by that time? Ah, what a life... my drool cup runneth over... ;)

24 years, 3 months

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Suggestions for Raw Tape Reading Under Linux?

by vonhagen＠vonhagen.org

Hi. I've been trying to read in a variety of old backup cartridge tapes as raw data so that I can write some tools to parse them (or port the old backup software used to write them). This seems to be the easiest way to explore old backup data from a variety of old machines without having to fire up the machines themselves. Since I'm trying to do this from a Unix (Linux) box, 'dd' was the obvious first choice, but I don't know things like the block size at which the tapes were originally written. Ideally, I'd just like to read raw data from the media, period. I've tried reading the tapes using 'dd' with a variety of block sizes, but still get zero-length input files. The drives I'm using to read the data are capabable of the densities at which they were written, and I understand the Unix/Linux device numbers - you can hear that the drives are working at the correct density, but I'm still not getting data. I even wrote a little program to just read data directly from the raw device, but don't seem to be getting anything there either.The drives whir and whine, but I get nada. Any suggestions? Any utilities you'd suggest rather than 'dd'? Many of these are non-Unix systems, so 'tar' and 'cpio' aren't appropriate. Thanks! Bill

24 years, 3 months

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WTB: VAXstation

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I'm looking to buy a halfway decent VAXstation (3100, or preferrably something like a VLC). One requirement - it needs to have the 15-pin graphics monitor connection on the back, so I can use this BC23K cable to connect to the VRE01 I got today for $5. 8-) (Yes, I'm buying a computer to hook to a monitor, not the other way around!) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 3 months

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DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)?

by rschaefe＠gcfn.org

Anyone have one, electronic or otherwise, or even owners guide? It appears I can still actually buy the tech manual from D^HC^HHP, but I really don't want to pay $50 for a manual to a termserver that I got for $0. Bob

24 years, 3 months

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look at the VAX 11/780 in action

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> Gunther Schadow wrote: > >For what it is worth, here you see what my VAX 11/780 does (sad that >all it does fits into one email :-): [snip] >What I'm really wondering is how can one see a directory listing of >the various diskettes from the console program? >How do I start the diagnostic supervisor? >Could it be that I'm missing any boards? It's so empty in there. > From left to right: Have you read the 11/780 docs from http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm ? There is a fair amout of technical stuff in there. There is also a HW User's Guide at: http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/home/manuals.htm >PS: I gather that one could really tap into this WCS loading >procedure with custome microcode. That's something I want to >try. Is there any documentation where one can learn how to >do microprogramming? For the 780 (and maybe 785) DEC did at one point sell microprogramming tools. I guess someone might still have this info, but if they do they're keeping quiet about it! Antonio

24 years, 3 months

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DEC Pro-350

by pat＠purdueriots.com

Does anyone have info on getting one of these to work with a serial console? I *could* build myself a console cable, and probably will do that, but getting this thing running at least *somewhat* would be nice right now. -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

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Needed: OpenVMS/VAX 7.2

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Anybody got a copy of OpenVMS/VAX 7.2 that they can make an image of for me? (if possible; easier to download/burn than to mail)... I got one from Doc a few months ago, but cant find it now... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 3 months

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Testing for Open Relays?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 18, 10:19, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm assuming the following means it's safe for me to have this system > connected to the net. I'm now in the process of also testing with > www.ordb.com, and have already tried the telnet trick posted earlier. > Relay test 3 > > >>> RSET > <<< > > Relay test result > > Could not reset connection, test failed. Um, no, I'm afraid it means your SMTP software bombed. It failed to go to the reset (initial) state after the second test, so the test sequence was aborted, and the remaining 16 or so (?) tests weren't carried out. I wouldn't trust that software just yet... I think the next test would have been something involving a message ostensibly from the "<>" address (which represents the mailer daemon), and then some tests involving forged addresses intended to look like your own domain, and then assorted routed or malformed addresses. Some of these are very important, and your site hasn't been tested for most of them. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request

by classiccmp＠mail.vintage-computer.com

Hello all, I am relatively new to vintage computing and this list, although I've been working and playing with computers for a long time. I am, however, a software guy and have only a little skill with or knowledge of hardware. I've recently acquired a pair of Altair computers (8800 and 8800a) both equipped with the "88-DCDD" single 8" disk drives. Unfortunately, I am having various difficulties with these machines. Hopefully the answers to some questions will push me towards a better understanding of these systems. My main issue at the moment revolves around the EPROM cards that hold the disk boot loader (DBL) PROMs for these machines. The cards are Solid State Music ?2K/4K? cards with 16 slots for 1702s. I asked the list about these cards before and have since obtained an assembly/instruction manual, but it is still unclear to me how these things are configured and addressed. There are four address switches which are supposed to address the board as follows (this is taken from the manual): Address: 000 000 to 017 377 - All switches on 020 000 to 037 377 - A2, A3, A4 on 040 000 to 057 377 - A1, A3, A4 on 060 000 to 077 377 - A3, A4 on 100 000 to 117 377 - A1, A2, A4 on 120 000 to 137 377 - A2, A4 on 140 000 to 157 377 - A1, A4 on 160 000 to 177 377 - A4 on 200 000 to 217 377 - A1, A2, A3 on 220 000 to 237 377 - A2, A3 on 240 000 to 257 377 - A1, A3 on 260 000 to 277 377 - A3 on 300 000 to 317 377 - A1, A2 on 320 000 to 337 377 - A2 on 240 000 to 357 377 - A1 on 360 000 to 377 377 - None on I see issues with this from the outset. First, assuming this is octal, the addresses past 160 000 are beyond the address space of the 8080 chip in the Altair (200 000 being 64K). As well, the gap of 16k at 160 000 to 200 000 is either an error in the manual or something I am missing since I can?t imagine the binary progression of switches having that gap. How is this card addressed? I?ve tried examining my way through the memory areas that I think are supposed to be addressed into the EPROMs (based upon various assumptions) but I get results that have me confused. Answers to some of these questions might help: Why would the address lights on the Altair not properly correspond to the address switches being set? If I set the switches at 1110111000000000, for instance, when I reset then examine the light at A11 doesn?t come on (the lights show 1110011000000000) even though I know that LED to be functioning. Why would the data lights ever show anything but on or off? I sometimes get dim glows from the data LEDs. What data can I expect to be in the RAM on boot-up? Is this answer different for Static vs. Dynamic RAM? What is the best way to execute the boot loader should I locate it? Can I set the address switches to the proper spot and run or do I need to code a simple program that will ?JMP? to the known address? Much of my confusion might stem from the EPROMs themselves since they may have been erased by time. I have a freshly burned set on order which may help. Please forgive my ignorance and this really long post. Thanks in advance, Erik _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 3 months

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[OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Well, a diskette jammed in the PB 5300ce's drive last week, >and in addition to a spring or something broken or missing >on the eject mechanism, I seem to have knocked the upper >head out of alignment, so it's kaput (and the topic is >admittedly off-topic as the 5300 is a 1996 product). > >Assuming no one has one, I'd really appreciate it if those >of you who come by such things on a fairly regular basis >would keep an eye out for one. They may be unique to the >5300, or may be used in one of the contemporaneous models. > >I'm sure Shreve Systems likely has them, but their prices >vary widely, perhaps based on supply/demand, perhaps not. Check the LEM Swap list. you can subscribe at www.lowendmac.com. If you don't want to deal with subscribing just to look for one item, let me know, and I will be happy to act as proxy for you. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request

by labomb＠rochester.rr.com

Hello Erik, Tony's response to your post was right on. I would like to add that the MITS boot eprom must be located at 177400 (or FF00H) to work correctly. So in your case, all switches should be off to locate the card at 360 000 to 377 377 (F000 to FFFF) in the last 4k block. The DBL eprom should then be in the last socket (highest addressable socket) of the eprom card. Once things are configured correctly, you should be able to set the front panel switches to FF00, hit 'Examine', and then hit 'Run' ... at which point the drive should enable, the head should load, and then an attempt to read the boot tracks (0-5 is typical for MITS software) should proceed. Best regards, Scott

24 years, 3 months

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E&S PS-390

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I saw a pair of Evans & Sutherland PS-390's (small end table sized) down at Purdue Salvage today. I was wondering if they had any value... I saw a few cables for them and keyboard and a digitizing tablet, but no monitors. Drop me a line if anyone wants one. I should be able to get them for somewhere between $50 and $100 for it all (both of them + accessories). Also there were several binders full of stuff. At a minimum, I'm gonna get the manuals for them... -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

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VAX 11/780 powered up and going :-) only a little :-(

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, finally I got around branching off a power line from my 220V 60A dedicated computer power circuit :-) I have all three phases of the VAX connected to a single 110 V phase. Matt, I fiddled with the fuses and found that I had to have F1 and F2 connected or else more than half of the outlets would habve no power. This whole power distribution and interlock system is still a mystery to me, does anyone have schematics for it? What worries me is that the key switch seems to have no effect whatsoever, it doesn't provide any more or less power, and throwing it from OFF to LOCAL doesn't effect any reboot attempt on the console system. Anyhow, I can get to the console and do some @140200G and indeed the RX01 starts klicking and up comes the console program. It tells me that the WCS and FPLA versions mismatch, (0E-xx vs 0F) but that isn't fatal, I gather. Then I did a TEST with the MIC diagnostics floppy and that runs through sections 01 to 07 and then has an error to report with module M8234 (PCS CPU PROM CONTROL STORE, as I gather.) The appropriate course of action would be to call DEC field service and replace the board, I guess. Too bad. I suppose the trick with replacing the M8234 will be the PCS version. I noted that if WCS and PCS versions mismatch, that would be a fatal error to begin with. That means it will be extremely hard to replace the PCS, or won't it? Could one do anything to repair that PCS? I suppose so, but not if one has no idea what's wrong with it. Any advice? Back in normal console mode, I tried to do a BOOT anyway, just to see if that PCS problem may be not that bad. But that's a no go, it comes up to a failure pretty quick. Could be that it's just because the default boot device isn't there, but it's too quick with the error. So, that will be a more difficult start then. But I guess I'm still lucky because at least I can get to the MIC diagnostics at all (poor Matt.) But of course one wonders what else might be broken? Is there a way to copy console floppies? I noticed some serious bit rott, as only one out of three standard console floppies actually worked. I guess it's about time to back up the good ones before they go too. thanks -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 List bifurcation

by nemesis-lists＠icequake.net

Tony Duell wrote: > [Long political rant deleted] > > Could somebody please explain to me how that rant has anything to do with > classic computers Hehe... I think the problem is that good old Godwin's Law [http://www.godwinslaw.com/] seems to infest this list at times. :) People are too willing to fan the flames when quasi-political ranting is brought up, instead of letting the moderator take care of it. That's the real problem. -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Eric Klein said: > I see issues with this from the outset. First, assuming > this is octal, the addresses past 160 000 are beyond the > address space of the 8080 chip in the Altair (200 000 being > 64K). Not if it's split octal. Each byte converted to octal and listed separately. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

24 years, 3 months

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MicroVAX 3100/90

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: >On 17 May, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >> There should be a little slide switch at the back. When it is >> up it will use that port (3 - with the printer icon) >And what will it do when the switch is down? Autoboot? I know that >switch from VAXstations to switch the machine from graphics to serial >console. But this machine has no graphics. With the switch down (the normal position) the console is on MMJ-0 and a <BREAK> on the terminal will be ignored. With the switch up MMJ-3 will be used as the alternative console and <BREAK> will halt the system. As far as autobooting goes, that's not dependent on the switch setting - it depends on the console settings as stored in NVRAM. I think this is pretty much the same for all the MicroVAX 3100 systems. It is also true for all the VAXstation 3100/4000 systems except (as you note) with the switch down the graphics head is used as a console and not MMJ-0. Antonio

24 years, 3 months

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[ot] Newbie C programming help....

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

Hi, You've seen me around the list before.. Can anyone lend me a hand, off list, with some "C" and curses.h questions? Thanks. Ron.

24 years, 3 months

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Testing for Open Relays?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 17, 22:23, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Anyone have any favorite sites or tools to test an SMTP server for open > relays? I finally got around to updating the SMTP configuration on my VMS > server to reflect the upgrade from TCPIP 5.0 to 5.1 and would like to test > it. I like to use the JANET tester but that might only work for JANET sites. The other one I often use is the one at http://www.abuse.net/relay.html which seems to work well (and won't end up blocking your domain if the test fails). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 3 months

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Chip-8 questions

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Hey, Cosmac people -- I'm working on a Chip-8 emulator for, natch, the Commodore 64. There is a nice instruction set listing at http://users.aol.com/autismuk/chip8/chip8def.htm but it doesn't well document how the carry in register vf is used. For example, does 7rxx use the carry even though it doesn't set it? What about 8ry4 or 8ry5? These set it for borrows/carries but do they use them in the addition or subtraction, like the 6502 ADC/SBC? Also, what does 'skip' mean? Skip the next instruction? Thanks! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- High explosives are applicable where truth and logic fail. -- Marcello Corno

24 years, 3 months

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d-link de-200tp+ nic: who knows this card??

by robwill2＠wxs.nl

hi, for the d-link de-200tp+ network interface card i need info how to set the jumper blocks.. anyone know this card? (it's an old-timer...) rob nl

24 years, 3 months

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Testing for Open Relays?

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Anyone have any favorite sites or tools to test an SMTP server for open relays? I finally got around to updating the SMTP configuration on my VMS server to reflect the upgrade from TCPIP 5.0 to 5.1 and would like to test it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

24 years, 3 months

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[OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive

by dougq＠iglou.com

Hi, Well, a diskette jammed in the PB 5300ce's drive last week, and in addition to a spring or something broken or missing on the eject mechanism, I seem to have knocked the upper head out of alignment, so it's kaput (and the topic is admittedly off-topic as the 5300 is a 1996 product). Assuming no one has one, I'd really appreciate it if those of you who come by such things on a fairly regular basis would keep an eye out for one. They may be unique to the 5300, or may be used in one of the contemporaneous models. I'm sure Shreve Systems likely has them, but their prices vary widely, perhaps based on supply/demand, perhaps not. tia, -doug q

24 years, 3 months

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MicroVAX 3100/90

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I just got one of these. It powers up, the lights on the back flicker nicely, and it appears to be outputting crap to the MMJ serial port labeled '3', but for the life of me I can't figure out what speed it's at. I've tried minicom at 300,1200,2400,4800.9600.19200,38400, and 57600 with no success. I've even tried 7-N-1 and 7-E-1 (7bits no/even parity and 1 stopbit) along with 8-n-1, no luck. Anyone have more of a clue than I do? -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

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MicroVAX 3100/90

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>I just got one of these. It powers up, the lights on the back flicker >nicely, and it appears to be outputting crap to the MMJ serial port >labeled '3', but for the life of me I can't figure out what speed it's at. >I've tried minicom at 300,1200,2400,4800.9600.19200,38400, and 57600 with >no success. I've even tried 7-N-1 and 7-E-1 (7bits no/even parity and 1 >stopbit) along with 8-n-1, no luck. There should be a little slide switch at the back. When it is up it will use that port (3 - with the printer icon) at whatever speed: usually 9600 8-N. I've never tried via a minicom - do you have a dumb terminal, preferably a VT200/300/400 and a known good set of connectors and cables? Antonio

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). Also, is there any chance of making a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. Also, does anyone know anywhere I could get a Compaticard (and any necessary drivers to make it useful)? I've looked on ebay a few times now and still haven't seen one... -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] transistor counts again

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

One of the 4's was for the bus size. It was a multiplexed synchronous bus. It had 8 phases. 3 were for address and one was for the rom. One or two were alu and I don't recall what the other was for but I think it was bank selects. Each device would watch the instruction and would do the right thing ( I/O or RAM ) when it's time came around. One might call it smart I/O. This way, the processor didn't have to have the additional pins to select the function for the bus. Dwight >From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com> > >On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > >> I find that hard to believe. The 4004 was part of a chipset containing >> the 4001 (ROM), 4002 (RAM) and 4003 (I forget exactly what, some kind of >> I/O?). The 4001 and 4002 parts were used in lots of 4004 or 4040-based >> designs. > >And according to Ted Hoff, it was quite by accident that it ended up with >part number 4004. Coincidence and all. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > >_______________________________________________ >cctalk mailing list >cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk >

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay

by lgwalker＠mts.net

Damn after being away 2 weeks my mailbox was jammed with msg's. Here's a suggestion to cut down the traffic. I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and big iron people do the same. There seems to be almost a pattern of mini, then micro threads that happen as can be seen in the archives. I do occasionally enjoy the mini threads, but usually I just delete them. And that goes back to 97 or so. I also get the impression that the mini folk are annoyed in general with the micro traffic. Cool, don't spit on my Amiga and I won't spit on your PDP. It would be easy to subscribe to both lists for those who have a broader perspective, but would ease up on those of us who don't. Just looking to optimise my time. Lawrence lgwalker(a)mts.net bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score

by lgwalker＠mts.net

Just did a trip to BC from Central Manitoba. That's in Canada, eh, Yank. Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC VR240 and a DEC printer and some PS/2 stuff. Finally I have one as a DEC Rainbow should be - in color In Vancouver I hit the mother lode. I had also arranged to pick up there an Osborne I w/manuals, software, and a 12"x12" Summa graphics Tablet w/4 directional mouse. Also a box of viginal 8" diskettes. Van is great for yard sales and also they do a spring garbage blow-out. PICKIN" TIME !! An Amiga 1000 that I almost missed cause it was still in it's styro pkgng. Same garbage, a clean C-64C with PSU, nice 1802 , and a 1541 fdd. Mac keyboard, LT mouse, large wheel mouse, box of C64 disks, Lloyds TV Sports Gamer, and passed on a Tandy ARM at $15 (which I now regret.) 3x IBM newer PS/2 machines and an integrated AST, several 15' SVGA monitors. A box with about 50 TRS-80 zines A box of Intellivision carts and about 8 Adam tapes, A SHARP PC 3000. After cleaning out the battery compartment and using new batteries it worked. DOS 3.1 w/a pcmcia card whose Li. battery is surely dead as is the notepad's. And many non-computer items. The Sharp 3k is a neat little 8088 handheld about the size of an Atari Portfolio. Sharp brought it out after high sales of it's Poqet but retreated when some of the heavier-duty co's. attacked that market Based on the numerous site info it's a great machine related somehow to the HP95. At least it can use the HP PCMCIA's if I understood correctly.( IIUC) Anyone here a fan of this hand-held ? Lawrence lgwalker(a)mts.net bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com

24 years, 3 months

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IBM Series/1

by martinm＠allwest.net

I've run into an IBM Series/1 computer available for the hauling. I need advice as to whether it is worth saving. Space is somewhat tight and it is a large rack (requiring 220 VAC), printer and, supposedly, a console terminal. Relevant part numbers are: 4955 IBM Processor, Series/1 4963 IBM Disk Subsystem 4965 IBM Diskette Drive and I/O Expansion Unit 4975 Printer Some googling indicates that it ran an OS called EDX (Event Driven Executive?). I found some mention of a *nix that ran on it. The computer was released around 1976. This one was working when retired years ago. The rack and printer are in a basement and the console terminal, some manuals, etc. are supposed to be in a storage unit. Specs that I have found show that the disk is a 68 MB drive that weighs about 150 pounds alone. Is saving this computer worth the aching back? Anybody have advice, war stories, links or other information on this old beast? Thank you, Martin Marshall

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Sellam Ismail > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > Note: As a benefit to those here on the cctech side of the list who > value > > > topical messages, I am only sending these many referrals I receive > every > > > month to cctech. > > > > Ummm, aren't all cctech messages supposed to automatically get sent > > to cctalk also? If so, then that 'benefit' wouldn't exactly work they > way > > you intend, Sellam... > > Err, you're right. This new list is too confusing. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Well, not really. cctech is moderated, to help block spam, and keep out the OT messages. it is also sent to cctalk, so everyone can see all the messages. cctalk is just that. A big room full of conversations that go anywhere... cctalk are getting the messages from here, right? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards...

by CordaAJ＠NSWC.NAVY.MIL

Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is as follows; Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". Most UV Eproms begin to erase when exposed to UV wavelengths shorter than 4000 A (Angstroms). I found the following statement concerning EPROM sensitivity to UV light on page 10-9 of the National Semiconductor 1984 "CMOS Databook" (and yes, I _am_ a packrat when it comes to old databooks :-) concerning the 27C16 (a very common older type of EPROM): Erasure Characteristics: "... It should be noted that sunlight and certain types of fluorescent lamps have wavelengths in the 3000 A - 4000 A range. Data shows that constant exposure to room-level flourescent lighting could erase the typical NMC27C16 in approximately 3 Years, while it would take approximately 1 week to cause erasure when exposed to direct sunlight..." Also, one must keep in mind that the timeframes listed above are probably derived from studies of "freshly programmed" eproms. Most of the ones we would be interested in would already have a number of years of charge decay under their belts. I was unable to find a reference to a finite lifetime for UV Eproms, but I seem to vaguely recall that there is a limit (~10 Years? sounds short, but I seem to remember reading it somewhere. Does anyone have this number at hand?) The end result of all this is that if you have any equipment you consider valuable, and it has windowed EPROMS, make certain that the windows are covered with an opague sticker. You might also consider dumping their contents to a data file for archival purposes. (and possibly re-programming them to effectively "refresh" them). -al- -acorda(a)1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:16 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the > > bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > the board > > from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before > > with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass > bed of the > scanner due to sharp component leads. I guess that there is a slight > possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn't > covered. The fluorescent tube the scanner uses to illuminate the bed > really shouldn't be emitting too much in the way of UV or > near UV light > though. Other than UV erasable components that don't have their window > covered, I can't think of anything else I'd be concerned about. > > -Toth > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk >

24 years, 3 months

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DEC 3000

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Kolb [mailto:dankolb@ox.compsoc.net] > turn it into a VMS system - would 400Mb hard drive be enough > to have a > working VMS + DECWindows + Multinet (and various useful internet > programs, like IRC ;-)? Also, would there be any potential Plenty of room. I have a disk no larger than 300M with VMS 7.2 for VAX, DECWindows, DECNet, UCX (by any other name), etc, and space left. Of course, I use a separate, external 600MB disk for user home directories and the like. I wouldn't except the Alpha version is much larger. Just be careful not to overload it with stuff you won't use. > problems with > simply pulling the CD drive out of my 3000/400, sticking it into the > 3000/300L, and booting VMS from the CD? Are they both single-ended SCSI? My guess is no problems at all. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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drivel

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sridhar the POWERful [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > > Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all > > mixed up? > You are absolutely right. Just checking. I always thought that Merle would be busy hauling more sensational things... not that I dislike Turbochannel Alpha systems ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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drivel

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Merle K. Peirce [mailto:at258@osfn.org] > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all mixed up? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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DEC 3000

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Gordon Zaft > > At 01:40 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >On Fri, 17 May 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > > That aside, we received an interesting donation today, an HP700 with > 660 > > > drive, also a7580? plotter and a Decstation 5000. Also in the lot was > a > > > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > > > optical storage system. We were told it may have a Sun 1 cpu, Anyone > > > familair with this system? > > > >We've got a DEC 3000 at the ACCRC (Alameda County Computer Resource > >Center). So far it's been saved from the recycle bin but I'm not quite > >sure what to do with it yet. More accurately, it's been sitting in > >another part of the warehouse and hence is out of mind. It'll probably > >end up going into the VCF Archives. > > It's an Alpha-based system, runs VMS, Tru64 and NetBSD at > least. There's some info at: > > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/alpha/models.html > On the back should be a sticker with more info, to tell you if its a 300, 400, 500, or whatever model... My 3000/400 is running pretty nice, I just need to find more memory for it... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > > If that's the case, I don't think that will work. > Yes, it will work, but the responsibility is the choice of > the list member, > not mine. If one wants to see posts on both, they should join > both lists. > However, keep in mind that most people won't want to join > both, they will > only want one or the other. In the end, it's the users choice. Of course it would be possible for anyone who wants to be seen on cctech to join that list too, specifying that the mail from cctech shouldn't be delivered to your account, since you'll already get it >from cctalk, and then just send any posts which are squarely on topic there. They'd be bounced to cctalk, and everyone will see them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTECH] List problems?

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 02:38:06PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Nah, just seems that everybody took a long lunch, according to Dooug > Q... It was just kind of eery the way the messages just stopped. I had > (wrongly!) thought that the list server bombed. But it didn't... :-) I think Jay is still working on getting gatewaying between the two lists working properly. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 3 months

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E&S PS-390

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] > I'd love to have at least one of those. Don't know if I'll have > the cash, though :/ That was actually supposed to go to Pat -- sorry guys. Anyway, the jig is up now, I do like E&S. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Rants

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Raymond Moyers <rmoyers(a)nop.org> > I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, > but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down > crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right > to protection against speach that they find offensive. Jay -- I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list. In it, I found no reference to computers, or anything related to them. Additionally, he implicitly invokes our right to free speech, but seems to forget that this is a private mailing list, which means our rights may be limited here. As far as I understand it, we may say what we want on this list, but we may be banned from the list if we go too far. I think you have done a great job of splitting up the list and moving it to a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders? It seems to me that very few subscribers would want to keep receiving the sort of messages Mr. Moyers continues to send. Glen 0/0

24 years, 3 months

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E&S PS-390

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Finnegan [mailto:pat@purdueriots.com] > I saw a pair of Evans & Sutherland PS-390's (small end table > sized) down > at Purdue Salvage today. I was wondering if they had any > value... I saw a > few cables for them and keyboard and a digitizing tablet, but > no monitors. I'd love to have at least one of those. Don't know if I'll have the cash, though :/ Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] First off, since I wasn't able to send this to cctech, I'll assume for now that the messages we send to this list are automatically forwarded for approval, or something like that. > Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am > wondering what > the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made > terminals > before that, But i am just wondering about workstations. They have a "periodic table of IRISes." Google ought to have some of them. Their first workstation was the IRIS 2000, I think. Or do you mean desktop workstation? :) The IRIS 2000 was based on a motorola 680xx chip of some kind. Their first smaller workstation was a "personal IRIS" system. It was a tower case. After that, the Indigo. I know specifically that the first Indigos used R3000 CPUs, but you'll have to look up the ones used in Personal IRIS and IRIS 2000. Also look at IRIS 3000, and IRIS Professional (I think those are the ones) systems, which were produced in between. (In that order) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: Rants

by dougq＠iglou.com

> On Friday 17 May 2002 06:14, you wrote: > > > I think the obvious answer comes from the Church of the Subgenius: > > your first duty as a member is to form your own splinter sect. > > > > By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own > > separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, > > minus those who can successfully argue with themselves > > either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. > > Arent there variants of Eliza type programs that can do just that ? Raymond, some of us were wondering if it might not be the case that Raymond Moyers was such a program... > A lefty bot would be easy to program, it would need only > the standard reflexive stack of responses, and need have > no input or sensation of reality. Which would be no different than a righty bot, a Scientology Bot, etc. > Raymond > > Jimmy Carter said Monday he saw no evidence that Cuba makes > biological weapons. Last year he saw no evidence North Korea > makes nuclear weapons. It doesn't look dignified when a former > president campaigns that openly to be Archbishop of Boston. . > -- Argus Hamilton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Although I don't think *anyone* on the list cares, it is usual and customary, when quoting people who are not widely known by a particular readership, to provide a statement as to who the person is who is being quoted. For example: > -- Argus Hamilton, right-wing comedian Otherwise, such quotes fall out of the category of commentary and into the category of propaganda... If you really are motivated by an altruistic desire to enlighten people with whom you view you have something special in common (the interest or love of vintage computing systems), let me tell you, the way you (and others) go about it does not work. OTOH, if self-expression is your goal, why not just set up a web page and thread it onto as many search engines as you can, and perhaps include a url in your .sig that points to it? Or join in one of the many unmoderated USENET newsgroups which deal with this sort of communication by design? Again, you have clearly have good experience with Unix systems which the list would benefit from. But if you keep this ranting up, everyone will just start to filter you out. -dq

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Doc > > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > > <good stuff> > > > > Regards, > > > > Jay West > > Did anyone actually say "Thanks" yet? This is the smoothest list > transition I've ever been through. > > Thanks! > > Doc > I've said it before, and I'll say it again, a standing ovation for Jay... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] List problems?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Hello? Is there anybody out there? Traffic from this list completely and suddenly stopped... Seems odd, considering the way some of the threads were going... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] SGI / DEC Flirtation with NT/mips alpha

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > Dec has out in the field a bare few of these NT running > alphas that for reasons im not certain of cannot run Unix > ( something to do with the firmware ? other differences ? > thats my understanding anyway) On some systems, it was, indeed, only firmware. The reason that VMS, or OSF/1 didn't work on these varies, though, from "just firmware" to "we did something strange with the design of this one." Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow, preformatted media

by mtapley＠swri.edu

>From: Raymond Moyers <rmoyers(a)nop.org>: .... >> Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC >> VR240 and a DEC printer > > Isnt that one of those machines that need preformatted media ? > > Im not very knowlegable about VAX variants but i read about > a certain small vax 2000? prized for its ability to prepare > hard disks (flaw map/disk label) for the larger vaxen that > lacked the ability to do it themselves. Rainbow *can* format its own floppies. There is a similar DEC machine (Pro? Decmate? Help, somebody?) that cannot, and some Rainbows make their living as formatters for people that own the other machine. I don't know whether there's an analogous situation for VAX 2000, etc. The inability to format own media *is* a major and needless PITA, one of DEC's crummier decisions, IMO. - Mark

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: Tax Software Wanted

by appleone＠mac.com

Gene, I have the last 3 years of TaxCut for the Macintosh. Tell him to make an offer if he is interested. Thanks, Steve --

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 15, 16:29, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > If I'm *really* lazy, I tie them up in a pillowcase and put them in > > the (clothes) washing machine, and follow up with the tumble drier. > > That would likely be a bad idea, since the keys would scratch against each > other. Worst case, all of the lettering would be removed, and best case > would be a few scratches and dings. They don't scratch. And no reasonable keyboard has the lettering put on in such a way that it would rub off in a washing machine. If that were the case, the legending would rub off in normal use. Nearly all decent keys are two-part moulded. If that were the case, the legending would rub off in normal use. The pillowcase/washing machine is a tried and tested method, and I've heard of lots of people who've used it (I didn't invent it, though I can't remember who first told me about it). > > No.1 tip: make a note of the layout before you take the keycaps off. > > It all looks very logical until you actually try to put *every one* of > > the symbol keys back in the right place. > > Or take a digital photo of the keyboard, or make sure you have an exact > duplicate keyboard. Grid/graph paper can be very helpful when writing down > a layout too. Better still, yes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I have a copy of the SunDisk Flash RAM card driver for the 3000 (and for the HP95LX), as well as SunDisk card FDISK and FORMAT programs. If anyone wants them, email me off-list at robert_feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com. -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:11 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score <snip> A SHARP PC 3000. After cleaning out the battery compartment and using new batteries it worked. DOS 3.1 w/a pcmcia card whose Li. battery is surely dead as is the notepad's. And many non-computer items. The Sharp 3k is a neat little 8088 handheld about the size of an Atari Portfolio. Sharp brought it out after high sales of it's Poqet but retreated when some of the heavier-duty co's. attacked that market Based on the numerous site info it's a great machine related somehow to the HP95. At least it can use the HP PCMCIA's if I understood correctly.( IIUC) Anyone here a fan of this hand-held ?

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Subject Lines

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> no, messages from cctech ARE making it to cctalk, I just saw a bunch go > through. They are the ones with dual list subjects... ie. [CCTALK] [CCTECH] > > Jay West Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't take up most of the the viewable subject line? I read most CLASSICCMP mail via 'elm' and I'm not seeing enough of the subject to get any idea what the message is about. Also, do we really need to see both on dual list messages? Zane

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310

by fernande＠internet1.net

This isn't mine... if it were, I wouldn't be auctioning it :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024525025 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by mythtech＠mac.com

>We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into >a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. But then you can't video tape its impact and edit it into slow motion among other things. >We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local >authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract >attention. We have a private parking lot... and my sister is a cop on the local police department, and the PBA holds their meetings in our building. So even if the cops show up, they are likely to just hang out watch, and cheer us on. >It was >before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing. Humm.. hadn't thought about the health hazard. :-( >A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or >asphalt. That's what I'm worried about. I guess I could remove the case to the monitors and verify that they are just plastic. But I just have this fear that I will chip the asphalt, and within a season there will be a nice pothole in the middle of the drive. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/16/02 1:19:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Gary.Messick(a)itt.com writes: > > ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?) > It was not my choice, but my partner's. It was 1989, before I discovered the list. We couldn't find anyone to sell them to. They are very expensive to store for the next 10 or 20 years until they are valuable again. At that time I had no idea they would ever be valuable again. My partner was a scrapper and we had to move. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/16/02 12:22:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mythtech(a)mac.com writes: > (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office > building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick > my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about > it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage > the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to > try it and find out) > The problem with throwing stuff off rooftops is containing the debris, which, with a monitor, is considerable. We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. The first time we were in a seven story warehouse with stuff on the 7th and 4th floors. A stereo system dropped from the seventh floor can literally jump out of the dumpster upon impact. This was the first we tried. Containment works better when there is a little debris in the bottom. The first few items jumped right out of the dumpster, bouncing off the metal bottom. Of course they shatter when hitting the bottom making a mess to clean up when they jumped into the street. We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract attention. In NW Portland Oregon no one came by. After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor where we had 60 Wang Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of the dumpster. The fall from the 4th floor was not as great. They made a great pop when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy morning. The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the list, not to mention this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing. Another time we had to despool several pallets of spooled wire. We took them up to the roof and dropped the spools into the neighboring parking lot. If you dropped them just right the spool would come apart and the coil of wire would rise up about 6 or 8 feet off the ground. Did not damage the parking lot. Lots of fun for work. A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or asphalt. Plastic shatters making a big mess. We preferred to restrain ourselves until we had a dumpster to toss things into. Properly contained it can be a lot of fun. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: scanners & circuit boards...

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Davison, Lee <Lee.Davison(a)merlincommunications.com> > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave > a thin trace of metal on the glass. Not to doubt your word, but in my experience metal can scratch glass. The glass counter-tops in my shop are scratched (not marked) from customers putting circuit boards on them. Glen 0/0

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by dougq＠iglou.com

> > EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have > > UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, > > but not by casual exposure. > > Yes, but every flatbed scanner I've ever seen has a flat > piece of glass on top (which is optically between the lamp > and the object-being-scanned). I can't believe they used > any special glass that was even moderately transparent to > UV -- it would be expensive and pointless. But regardless, scanning would be causal exposure, and such exposure (even if that glass were UV transparent) would be unlikely to be able to hurt the EPROM. But the only boards with EPROMs I've ever seen that *didn't* have labels covering the windows were ones I did myself or ones where the label glue had dried up and the label fell off. FWIW, I usually use silver write-protect tabs or the black vinyl ones for this purpose; I'd only use white paper on stuff that shipped so I could write a version number on them. Dunno if the tabs are available anymore, but I think I still have a supply... -dq

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] First SGI Workstations?

by torquil＠rockbridge.net

Heya, Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am wondering what the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made terminals before that, But i am just wondering about workstations. Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle III Lexington, Virginia

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Fw: VAX Hardware Anyone?

by rschaefe＠gcfn.org

Maybe someone will want to talk to this guy (not me) about his kit? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Flodrowski" <les(a)uwo.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 04:09 PM Subject: VAX Hardware Anyone? > We have a dual VAX 4500a (4000-500a) cluster to dispose of. > > It consists of the following components: > > - 2 VAX 4500a systems clustered with the following storage arrays > - R400X DSSI Storage cabinet with 6 x DSSI 1.0GB - 1.6GB drives > - StorageWorks cabinet with 3 x 4.3GB SCSI drives > - TX87 DLT Tape drive > - TU81 Plus Magtape drive > - VAX 4500a system complete spare > > At this time we are simply trying to find out if there is > any interest in the community for these systems. If you are > interested, and would like to make a serious offer, please > contact me. > > BTW, we also have all media and documentation for VAX/VMS and > a number of related applications. > > --- > > Les Flodrowski, les(a)uwo.ca > Phone: 519 661 3595 > The University of Western Ontario > > >

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] testing

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by dougq＠iglou.com

>> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the >> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. > > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave > a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily > remove this is nothing else will. >> >> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the >> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. > > Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, but not by casual exposure. Regards, -dq

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: Keycap cleaning strategy

by fmc＠reanimators.org

I do this sort of thing for Northgate Omnikey keyboards. Two paper towels, folded on the perf, to the left of the sink. One margarine dish in the sink. Fill margarine dish with hot water. Add a little dishwashing goop (I use Palmolive because it's there). Pull some key caps from the keyboard. Put the caps in the margarine dish and swirl them around. Let them soak, while you pull the next batch of key caps. Remove and scrub with a sponge one cap at a time, shaking the cap to remove any excess water before sitting it face down on the paper towels to dry. Repeat 'til done. You'll probably need to move the paper towels (before they get too covered with caps) and fold another set, maybe twice or three times to get through the keyboard. Be careful when pulling big caps, they usually have some supporting widgetry that can go flying when the cap pops off. While the caps are drying, you should take the keyboard the rest of the way apart to blow out any dust and detritus and scrub the casework (again, dishwashing goop and water, maybe stronger stuff if needed). Let it all dry before putting it back together. Once cleaned, I generally wrap a keyboard up in a 13 gallon kitchen garbage bag to keep it mostly free of dust and critters. Cables can be coiled up inside the bag too. (Yes, I have a supply of spares... I use these keyboards!) -Frank McConnell

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] / JUNK FEST

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> > I've seen a couple of cctech messages passed over to cctalk > >as well, so I've gotten two copies of those. I also sent a message > >just to cctech earlier and it errored out for moderator approval > >because the software complained about a blind cc: being addressed to > >cctalk, though there was none included on my end. > > I got one of those too. It also said that my message was rejected but it >wasn't. I sent Jay a note about it already. OK... Now I see what's happening. I received a rejected notice earlier because I have opted out of the CCTALK list. My posts will appear in CCTECH but, not in CCTALK and I'll get a rejected notice from CCTALK for each post. I can live with that. It's certainly better than all the noise I was getting previously. To keep the message on topic: I am still undecided about the Junk fest tomorrow in Orlando. I have a potential scheduling conflict and might have to pass.. See yas, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards...

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Corda Albert J DLVA" <CordaAJ(a)NSWC.NAVY.MIL> > >Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used >in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or >scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM >window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is >as follows; > >Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit >much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. >The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the >UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the >phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, >I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old >flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". The fluorescent tubes used in offices usually have ordinary glass and in plastic fixtures. I would suspect that the 3 year period is rather pessimistic. Many scanners use halogen lamps. These produce quite a bit of UV. Infact, a bare halogen lamp can be used to erase EPROMs with a fan for cooling. It won't be fast but it will erase. The glass plate in a scanner still blocks much of the UV light that would cause damage. I wouldn't think that running it through a scanner would remove more than about a months worth of normal aging at most. Covering them is simple and makes good sense. Still, it is a good idea to store good data from EPROM's in a different form. I always make both a *.BIN file and a printout of any of the EPROM's and most of the ROM's that are in my older equipment. Cosmic rays will eventually erase any EPROM is leakage doesn't do it first. I have some 1702A's that were programmed over 20 years ago that are working fine ( around 1972, almost 30 years ). On a side note, ceramic packaged parts will also scratch glass. Dwight

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> > >On Thu, 16 May 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: >> Tothwolf wrote: >> >> > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of >> > the scanner due to sharp component leads. >> >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin >> trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is >> nothing else will. > >Are you sure? I've scratched glass with metal before, though not with a pc >board. Most component leads (excluding some of the newer resistors and >capacitors) are made of a tin plated copper or a copper alloy anyhow, so >it would seem that they would be less likely to damage something than say, >steel. > >Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how >to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? Hi Jewelers rouge will remove scratches from glass. It does depend on the depth. The reason I know this is because I am also an amateur telescope maker and rouge is a common material used to polish glass. If the scratch is deep, you'll need to grind with something like 15 or 5 micron aluminum oxide. You'll note that both rouge and aluminum oxide are both oxides of common metals. These are harder than glass and can scratch glass under the right condition. Also, carbon steel wheels are used to scribe glass ( but this isn't scratching, it is fracturing so this doesn't count but the results look the same ). Contact me off group and I can help with your CRT problem. Dwight

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by Gary.Messick＠itt.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Innfogra(a)aol.com [mailto:Innfogra@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 3:07 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops > > <snip> > After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor where we had 60 Wang > Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of the dumpster. The fall from the 4th > floor was not as great. They made a great pop when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy > morning. > > The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the list, not to mention ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?) > this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was before we realized the potential toxic > hazard we were unleashing. <snip> ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] FW: DEC Cards and chassis available Toronto Canada...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

***Found this during my daily perusal of select newsgroups... Reply directly to this guy. Subject: Cards and chassis available Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 02:03:18 GMT From: "Don" <nospam(a)for.me> Org: Shaw Residential Internet Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec I'm moving and I have to lose a bunch of DEC stuff before mid June. Come and get it and save it from the dump. It is in the Toronto Canada area. Mail me for further details. DEC stuff =========== * all counts are approximate, some parts are in rough shape, some do not work 12 BA Chassis DEC part 630QZ-AX 1 spare power supply for above 5 KOM chassis 1 set of binders RSX 11M version 3.1 1 Digital Microcomputers +Memories Handbook 1982 1 TU-56 dual tape drive and some tapes (it works) 1 quad height extender card (used to troubleshoot cards) 2 dual height extender card 9 MXV11 M8047 (ROM and 2 DL) 6 DZ KOM version 20 DZ (made by DEC) 1 dual height memory 2 quad high memory 4 RCC cards (custom part) 3 11/23 cpu 8 11/73 cpu 3 M9400 terminator + rom misc other Contact me at dgreer6146-at-shaw-dot-ca Don -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by mythtech＠mac.com

>> There's a guy here who had one of those auto-glass repair places buff >> a bad scrape off his 21" Nokia. Yes, the tube, not the bezel. >> Personally, I think the person who did the work is certifiably (a) >> stupid (b) suicidal - take your pick. But they did a great job. > >If the damage wasn't very deep, I'd not be too worried about it. The >thickest part of a glass tube is the face, which could be anywhere from >1/4" to 1" thick. I don't know what kind of buffing equipment the guy used, but if it is like the stuff I have seen used to take scratches out of our fire trucks... I wouldn't be too worried about buffing a tube. The last one I TRIED to break, took a good dozen swings with the frame of a heavy rolling chair before it cracked... and even then, it just cracked. It took a few more hits before it actually gave out and collapsed. Next time I will whack one with a sledge hammer and see how many hits it takes to get to the center. (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to try it and find out) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Toothpaste is actually a good fine abrasive. I have heard it recommended before (for polishing scratches from the display panel of a Radio Shack Model 100). Another product is called "Mirror Glaze." The exhibit staff at the museum I worked at used it to buff small scratches from Plexiglas display cases. -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:49 PM To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... <snip> I've buffed out tiny scratches in the past with (of all things) toothpaste, but for the more visible but still minor scratches, I need to find something else. -Toth

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is nothing else will. I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Re: Data I/O 212 EPROM programmer

by lgjean＠free.fr

Hi I have a DATA I/O 212 without software. You may help-me ? email to lgjean(a)free.fr (sorry for my pitiful english) Jean

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq(a)iglou.com> >>>> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the >>> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. >> >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave >> a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily >> remove this is nothing else will. This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers without the rubber. Although, it may be true that glass has a hardness greater than most metals, this doesn't mean it won't get scratched. The problem is that it also fractures easily ( sometimes at a microscopic level ). The tiny chips embed in the metal surface and that scratches the glass. This is a multiplying effect. Also, most oxides of metal are harder than glass. And lastly, the quartz windows of the EPROMs are harder than glass. >>> >>> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the >>> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. >> >> Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. > >EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have >UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, >but not by casual exposure. I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner. Dwight

24 years, 3 months

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[CCTALK] Annex Term Servers

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I've got an Encore Annex (first model), and Encore Annex Two sitting here that I'm wanting either to get rid of. If I don't get any 'bites', I'll probably pull the usefull chips and can the rest. I'm also going to the Dayton Hamvention thingee on Saturday. If anyone wants to meet me there to get one of these, let me know. If I don't here a reply by Saturday night, they'll probably end up in pieces. They both appear to work (I have no software for them...) the lights light up and the annex one (which has DE9P's so I can hook up a serial console easily) does its diagnostics ok. -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

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