- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

PET 2001 Oddity 6550 Unobtainiums

by kandres＠epssecurity.com

Ethan, I'm sorry. I hadn't read far enough to see you when I replied to Witchy. The reference to the dynamic ram packs was something I remember having in the late 1970's. It seems to me that they may have been Timex ram packs. You are correct that the add on wasn't easy. It required some large amount of work and is why I looked at it and never proceeded. I am kind of set that if I am going to fix this beasty, I will probably go to a minimum 8 wide ram that is somewhat more modern, and I tend to come by likely candidates every day here. As far as perf board, I have proto'd circuits on it for years, but for the last ten years or so, I have been using PCBExpress on the Internet. They have a free and pretty good board layout package, and now have a schem capture inclusion. I have used the boards in a commercial application (4 port serial, any port in, other ports out, field setable baud rates) and have had no problems with the boards. They have a minimum order, but that only makes sense. Kev -----Original Message----- From: cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:48 PM To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #324 - 14 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech(a)classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor (WiIdcats(a)aol.com) 2. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (Dave McGuire) 3. RE: Core memory speeds (Charles Ader) 4. RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! (Witchy) 5. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Witchy) 6. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Fred N. van Kempen) 7. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (Peter C. Wallace) 8. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Kevin Handy) 9. Re: Any Cromemco USERS? (Sellam Ismail) 10. Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$) (Vintage Computer Festival) 11. RE: Any Cromemco USERS? (Bill Sudbrink) 12. DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like... (Ed Tillman) 13. Re: Core memory speeds (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) 14. RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! (Ethan Dicks) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: WiIdcats(a)aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:25:21 EST Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny</HTML> --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary-- --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:55:55 -0500 Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? Cc: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 09:59 AM, David Holland wrote: > Anyone got a PIC programmer they'd use for me? :-) I may be looking > to have someone program a couple of 16F28's here real soon. I have PIC programming capability here, and would be happy to burn some chips for you. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: Core memory speeds Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:26:50 -0800 From: "Charles Ader" <Charles(a)socketcom.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel [mailto:jos.mar@bluewin.ch] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:10 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Core memory speeds > > > On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, > > what was the access and cycle time of core memory > > before it vanished and just when did it do that? > > Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late > > 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks > > to be the transition stage from the the old to > > the new. Ben > > > My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) > lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us, > both for 8kx18 stacks. > > My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : > dated 1980, cycle time unknown. > > My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... > > > Jos Dreesen > With core memory the general rule was the smaller the donut the faster the cycle. The real limiting factors have always been the physical size of the array of cores. The plane, a mat of wires with little teeny-tiny ferrite donuts at each intersection, looks electrically like a lot of inductors all strung in series. This is a good configuration for a low pass filter that we are going to put a very fast pulse through. The bottom line of all this is that even fast core memory tends have around 0.490us write cycle times. Read cycles are always twice the write cycle times. This means you need to read the core memory specs carefully. Be sure that you see the both read and write cycle times. If you can only find one it will most likely be the write cycle time. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Witchy" <witchy(a)binarydinosaurs.co.uk> To: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:57:59 -0000 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Kevin Andres > Sent: 20 January 2003 15:10 > To: 'cctech(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! > > > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. It doesn't > even get to a > prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an [ENTER] key > is telling me a video RAM went south. As When my 2001 did that I got some 2114s from bgmicro.com to swap out the video RAM and it works sweetly now. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Witchy" <witchy(a)binarydinosaurs.co.uk> To: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>, <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:59:13 -0000 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jochen Kunz > Sent: 20 January 2003 10:15 > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > On 2003.01.19 12:30 Witchy wrote: > > > The thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 > > in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy > > capability...... > I have a 2.88 MB SCSI floppy in my MV3100m95. Live and learn eh :) I didn't know that was possible. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:05:21 +0100 From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>, <vance(a)neurotica.com> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org I have several 3100's with diskette drive (both MFM and SCSI). --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:52 PM > To: vance(a)neurotica.com > Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vance(a)neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > > Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20 > > To: Witchy > > Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an > > option for the > > > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for > > 20-odd quid I > > > wouldn't complain :) > > > > That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between > TK50Z's and DLT > > TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. > > Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw(a)mesanet.com> To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > ----------------------Original Message------------------------ > One question. Assuming the signal names are conventional, that's the same > pinout as the '154 decoder. And yet my (ancient, hardbacked) TI TTL book > says that while the 74154 is a logical replacement, it's not a direct > replacement (this implies to me a different pinout). One of the pinouts I > received had the A inputs in the oposite order (20 = A0 .. 23 = A3). Can > somebody please check which is correct. > -tony > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Well, you'll probably get another dozen replies from the other helpful folks > here, but the pinouts and logic tables are identical and 23=a0, 20=a3. > I thought the same when I looked at the 9311, that it sure looked like a > 74154 which was used everywhere, and that there must be a pinout or > big characteristic difference to make it worth FSC's while (since they > also made the '154, and TI, NSC and Motorola, who also made the 9311). Didn't the 9311 pre-date the 74154? IICRC, a lot of the the 9300 series stuff got copied by TI (9300,9316 for example) when they got the synchronous is better message that Fairchild was promoting with the 9300 series... (wish I still had that Orange 9300 series designers guide) > > But the only difference I can see is that the max propagation delay is > less on the 9311; maybe someone else will see something else. > > mike > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:27:38 -0700 From: Kevin Handy <kth(a)srv.net> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>Behalf Of Antonio Carlini >>Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46 >>To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >>Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... >> >> >> >>>Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... >>> >>> >>Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000 >>series, but shipping on those will be pretty >>expensive. >> >> > >You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided >to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the >time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so >2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to >completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get >it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a >pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground >level and now I know why :) > >Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and >uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could >afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved >into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and >lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX >sized load on things *definitely* won't help :) > If you have electrical heating (as opposed to gas/coal/oil/...), then running the VAX will not cost any more. Electricity generates the same amount of heat per kilowatt, no matter how is used. It will not cost any more than running the electrical heating units for the same amount of power. Only problem would be moving the heat to the proper location, and regulating it. ;-) >cheers > > > --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:13:49 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Any Cromemco USERS? Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have a System/One in running condition (last I checked) running Cromix >from the harddrive. I have two actually. One was exhibited at the first VCF but because of all the moving the hard drive got crashed :( To my knowledge, the other one is still running, but I haven't fired it up in years. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:21:55 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$) Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org ----- Message Text ----- I have an outstanding bounty. I am seeking out manuals for the Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 computer imaging cameras circa late-80s/early-90s. If you have these manuals and want to earn a little extra cash, please contact me directly at <sellam(a)vintage.org>. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Any Cromemco USERS? Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:31:19 -0500 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have an IMSAI chasis stuffed with cromemco boards. I run CP/M on it... but I don't think there would be a reason it wouldn't run a cromemco OS. It has a CPUZ, a 16FDC, a 64KZ and a TU-ART in it. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Ed Tillman" <ETILLMAN(a)satx.rr.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:58:40 -0600 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Hello... Still looking. Someone sent me a reply in the list with a complete set of IBM PC-DOS 1.0 still in the package. I replied, but never saw either my reply or any answer come back. I'm still interested in buying, if I/we can make arrangements... Cheers! Ed --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel <jos.mar(a)bluewin.ch> Organization: None To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Core memory speeds Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:09:41 +0100 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, what was the access > and cycle time of core memory before it vanished and just when did it do > that? Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late 70's early 80's > time frame here since this looks to be the transition stage from the the > old to the new. Ben My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us ,both for 8kx18 stacks. My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : dated 1980, cycle time unknown. My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... Jos Dreesen --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:10:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org --- Kevin Andres <kandres(a)epssecurity.com> wrote: > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. To my experience, those are the more common "static" PETs, but from reading the list, perhaps there were more made with 2114s. > It doesn't even get to a prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an > [ENTER] key is telling me a video RAM went south. Perhaps. Could also be zero page. > ...I have toyed with swapping a CD6264 and or multiples into the mother > board even going so far as to quick doing an internet circuit board to > accomodate them. Time is the major constraint here. I also remember an > article or text which referenced adding perhaps a dynamic memory pack > from another machine to the expander plug, with an appropriate R & C > stobe assembly supplying what the PET didn't have. Whoa, memories!!!! Not sure what you are referring to, but I know of a modern board that plugs into the CPU socket that provides 100% of the ROM and program RAM, but I am fairly certain that it does _not_ provide for RAM at $8000. Now... given how the circuit works, it might not be too hard to remove the two video SRAMs (which should be side-by-side, not next to the program RAM at the front edge of the board), replace them with machined pin sockets (or four strips cut from .6" wide sockets if you can't locate "real" 6550 sockets), then you could either swap them out with ones from the front row to verify that it _is_ a video SRAM, or just get some perfboard from Radio Shack (or wherever you get parts these days) and hand-wire a daughter card with just about any 8-bit-wide SRAM from a 2016 or 6116 on up to a 6264 or 62256 or whatever. You could theoretically wire up a socket adapter to use a 2114 in place of a 6550, but given the reliability of the 2114s, I'd seriously consider a more modern alternative. I'm fairly certain the select lines for $8000 are not available on the edge connector, so no matter how you do it, you'll have to tap some lines from the motherboard. You _could_ build an edge-card board with the SRAM on it, remove the internal ones, and run the select lines as jumpers to your card, if you are more comfortable building something for the edge card. Don't know what to recommend for the "least time" solution, though. Check the front row SRAMs first, to see if you have a zero page problem. It's also possible that one of the TTL chips in the address selector logic is faulty and you aren't writing to the video page at all. If one SRAM were out, the machine would function, but look very odd. Sounds like either both SRAMs are faulty or you have a problem elsewhere either in the video chain or for the CPU itself. I have this Fluke 9010A tester that would help establish which one... it plugs into the CPU socket (I have a 6502 pod and a 68000 pod) and either runs as if it were just the CPU in there, or you can break it out of "emulation" mode and generate bus cycles... you can watch it test video memory and use it to strobe lines to see if it's a selector or mux/demux chip. A logic analyzer can also be helpful. I presume you have basic tools but may not have more advanced tools, yes? -ethan > I have looked at the serial number several times and always neglect to > write it down. I early on, 1975 or there > abouts, added a reset button to the front panel because of my tendency to > > lock the silly thing up with my incessant > poking around. I know I also have several of the early tomes on the PET > in > the basement, along with a couple of > Kilobaud articles reference the machine. > > Kev > kandres(a)epssecurity.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:56 AM > To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #320 - 48 msgs > > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Bill Bradford) > 2. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Dave McGuire) > 3. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) > 4. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) > 5. RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio > Carlini) > 6. PET 2001 oddity - solved! (Adrian Vickers) > 7. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Antonio Carlini) > 8. RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) > 9. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 10. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 11. Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Kenneth Donchatz) > 12. Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Cameron Kaiser) > 13. Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) > 14. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) > 15. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) > 16. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Fred deBros) > 17. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) > 18. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Doc Shipley) > 19. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 20. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 21. BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed (Philip Pemberton) > 22. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Peter C. Wallace) > 23. Re: IBM 5322 (Sellam Ismail) > 24. SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (David > > Holland) > 25. PET 2001 oddity (M H Stein) > 26. T&B Ansley IDC connectors (M H Stein) > 27. PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed (M H Stein) > 28. Re: About Electronics Questions (Tony Duell) > 29. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Zane H. Healy) > 30. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... (Sellam Ismail) > 31. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Tothwolf) > 32. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (David Gesswein) > 33. Re: DOS 1.0 (Tothwolf) > 34. RE: Hobbled NVAX (Michael Sokolov) > 35. New classic (Gareth Knight) > 36. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 37. MCA Fast Ethernet Cards (vance(a)neurotica.com) > 38. Re: SGI Discussions? (Brian Chase) > 39. RE: VXT X terminal question (Antonio Carlini) > 40. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (r. 'bear' stricklin) > 41. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > (r. > 'bear' stricklin) > 42. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 43. Apple 1 schematics (chris) > 44. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 45. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 46. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Eric Smith) > 47. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (John Honniball) > 48. Re: Apple 1 schematics (John Honniball) > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0600 > From: Bill Bradford <mrbill(a)mrbill.net> > To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 > was > a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. > > Pictures: > > http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ > > I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one > DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to > level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > Austin, Texas.. > > Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and > the MINC-11 and the racks. > > Bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill(a)mrbill.net > austin, texas > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:58:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > To: mrbill(a)mrbill.net, cctech(a)classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > > Austin, Texas.. > > The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply > power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a > "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to > squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. > > I would really like to have the RL02s but I have no idea how I'd get > them from you. :-( > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." > St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:31 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= <julesrichardsonuk(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > >> just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 > >> > >Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is > 25-ANC13-1000038. > > well if Rob's was the last then they obviously didn't do a very good job > of > numbering things :-) Unless Rob's was the last one released by Acorn, > but > they > all sat in storage for a while... > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's > a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at > least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > that used to be the problem - the hardware used to get thrown out but > discs > would lie around on shelves until someone did a bit of spring cleaning > now > and > then; they would have been trashed seperately and maybe straight into a > bin > in > the office :-( > > cheers > > Jules > (who has too many systems that don't work for lack of necessary discs :-) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:37 GMT > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > take > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > a > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > question > > is, how to find out? > > Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > any other RAM chip. > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early > PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the > originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which > made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > have > > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with > an > > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to > follow.... > > If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can > be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If > it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a > chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a > ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > ;-) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:48:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. > > I'm fairly sure the mainboards are identical (i.e. the same part > number). > I've never been inside a VAX 4000-100 so I've never had the > chance to personally check this, but the last time I saw a > parts list, the part numbers were the same. > > > Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be > > permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash > > ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover > > that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is > > disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and > > reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the > > change only in effect until the next power cycle? > > It's stored in the flash EPROM - it rewrites it as > part of the test (and warns you not to switch off > while it is doing so). The change is permanent (until > you run the test again and switch back). > > I doubt HP care whether customers know this or not now. I > doubt they cared even back then: switching from a UV3100-90 > to a VAX 4000-100 didn't get you anything extra (unless > you paid for a new case) and it did cost you more > in licence fees. Switching the other way disabled Qbus > and DSSI, so although your licence cost you less, you > got less for it. And if you wanted the cheaper licence > you would have bought the cheaper machine anyway! > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:28:22 +0000 > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> > Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > --=======74632786======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Woohoo! > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > this?) back to its original spot, and presto again - no BASIC. Swapped > that > chip for the one remaining spare, and presto^3! BASIC again. > > So, now I need more 2114's as an insurance policy... > > Meanwhile, I thank the list *again* for their invaluable help (Ethan, > Mike > & Pete in particular in this case). What would I do without you (except > preside over a collection of steadily failing machines)? > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======74632786=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). > > > So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge > > upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. > > But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their > > own independent connections to CDAL. > > You are probably right - I just threw in "as necessary" because > I don't have a KA42 block diagram handy (in fact, I may not have > one at all - there is not much info floating around on these > and the early UVAX 3100 systems). > > > But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, > > the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 > > dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) > > if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I > > could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL > > bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. > > I don't know why they rolled their own. Given that they used > or modified existing designs where possible, I assume that there > were good reasons. Perhaps the existing design was too slow or > took up too much room (this latter consideration was definitely > very important for the -90). > > > BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual > > for VS3100 (any > > model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks > > like one never existed. Do you have any more info? > > No - and I could never find any even while I was inside > DEC. There must have been *some* such documentation > but it was nowhere I could find. > > > Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in > > my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it > > There's not a lot of technical info on the KA43 either! > > > Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was > > EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) > > Typo. > > > > >http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT > > > >But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 > hardware. > > Yes, I've read that one and it's not the one. I was sure that there was > an article describing the VXT2000 itself, but I guess since I cannot > find it either on the web or in my docs, I must have > imagined it. Oh well. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:11:19 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility > > by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with > > different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is > > I assume so too. > > > to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled > > firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). > > They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. I doubt that the code > was protected too much: it would have been way beyond most > customers' ability to alter it. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:49:24 +0000 > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > --=======54493991======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >--- Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> wrote: > > > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... > > > >Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There > >are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. > >They use different ROMs and RAMs. > > OK, I can but try.... > > According to the sticker on the back, this is a 2001-8BS. The motherboard > layout appears to be the same as the one pictured on www.zimmers.net on > the > 4k/8k layout. I've taken some photos of my motherboard, which can now be > found here: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_front.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_back.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_side.jpg > > NOTE: Each picture is approx 449K = long download over a modem! > > >Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ > >RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a > >full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would > >most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the > States, > >it says "2001" on the front. > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > > > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > >. > >. > >. > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > > > a flakey memory chip... > > > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > > > >Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are > >upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 > > Personally, I'd rather keep this one as original as possible, i.e. keep > the > original (buggy) ROMs. However, if it means keeping it working, then I'm > prepared to substitute the MOS ROMs with a board/set of boards containing > more modern EPROMs wired appropriately containing the original images. > Not > that I've got a clue how to go about doing that, mind... > > > > > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs > >prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, > >minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 > >to add room for diskette commands. > > > >In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware > >(better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). > >These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other > applications > >were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has > >anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, > >that's probably why. > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? > I > > > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > > >The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate > >a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It > >was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, > I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > Anyway, if it *is* a failing RAM chip, my guess is it's the one which > sits > near the bottom of BASIC memory, since the first line number causes a > crash. Does anyone have a map showing the correlation between memory > addresses & specific chips? > > If it's on the schematics, I'll be looking there next (so no need to > answer > that question). > > > <snip the rest for brevity> > > Ta for that, all good info! > > Thus, the order of the day is: > > 1) Try to determine which 2114 chip might have gone bad, either by > sequenced swapping or by trying to be clever with the schematics. > > 2) If that doesn't fix it, re-seat all ROMs. > > 3) If that doesn't fix it, go to plan C - which doesn't exist yet... > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > > >Good luck, > > Thanks - I'm going to need that (in place of specific skills :) > > > >P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a > >great site with schematics and firmware. > > I already knew of it, but had forgotten how useful it might be. Will > check > that out next. Ta! > > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======54493991=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:43 +0000 > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > --=======37E27F29======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 11:37 18/01/2003, you wrote: > > >On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > >take > > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > >a > > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > >question > > > is, how to find out? > > > >Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > >does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > >socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > >I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > >any other RAM chip. > > Hi Pete, > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > In > > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > >a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. > > Damn, I just *knew* it wouldn't be that easy. > > > And in the early > >PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > >of PETs had different ROMs. > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all > MOS6540s. > > >If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > >shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > >the multiple select lines. > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get > my MicroMAT going. > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do > a > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > >;-) > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======37E27F29=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Kenneth Donchatz <kendonchatz(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's > loaded > with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school > and > helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq > system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home > and > was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, > it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including > the > printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might > take > this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and > rot. > > Ken Donchatz > > kendonchatz(a)yahoo.com > > Columbus, Ohio > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream.  > It's > loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law > school and helped me launch my career.  When my employer switched > over > to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on > projects > at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead.  For > the > last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting.  Everything works > perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are > original.  > Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's > a > shame to let it sit here and rot. > Ken Donchatz > <A href="mailto:kendonchatz@yahoo.com">kendonchatz(a)yahoo.com</A> > Columbus, Ohio <hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!? > <a > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! > > Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign > up > now</a> > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979-- > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 12 > From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:09:47 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. > > Which model? > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Of course I run NetBSD. --------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:34:45 GMT > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 13:28, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Good! > > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to > the > > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > > this?) > > A 2114 is 1K x 4 bits wide, so they're used in pairs to make bytes. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:59 GMT > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Hi, Ade. > > On Jan 18, 12:55, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're > not > > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > Good! If it *is* a RAM fault, and you can't find one at a reasonable > price, let me know. I think I still have a small number spare. > > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're > all > > MOS6540s. > > Drat. Let's hope it's not a ROM fault. Sadly, my copy of "The PET > Revealed" with its mostly-legible (!) circuit diagrams, shows the later > board with 2332s. But I do have a copy of the MPS6540 pinout somewhere. > > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints > & > > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can > get > > my MicroMAT going. > > > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably > do > a > > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at > it > > >;-) > > > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > OK. Give me shout if you want me to start burrowing. Or come and pay a > visit... > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:29:23 GMT > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS > ROMs. > > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the > capacity > of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard > PET > and no spare sockets. > > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this > list, > I > > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with > a > > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, > maybe > > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, > paintbrush > (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash > it > after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air > rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount > of > static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. > > If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with > distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the > water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air > and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) > may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of > places > like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually > lead > to corrosion. > > In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used > the > dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as > it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, > too, > and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't > use > a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper > labels, etc. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 16 > From: "Fred deBros" <fdebros(a)verizon.net> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:34:21 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up > using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). > I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do > know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on > panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size > and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. > > Mine does and it is just a matter on which pin you pick it up in the > back of the box! I'd have to go to my office to ck it again. > > Fred > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:42:37 GMT > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's a > > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected > at > least > > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good > Disc > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as > to > format to use for the images? > > I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips > was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development > system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, > the > PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely > numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:09:30 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc Shipley <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > Doc > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:21:03 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:38:58PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way > > of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > > > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > > > MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. > > It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that > > I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of > > other Qbus boxes around. > I have a MV II, MV III, MV3900, MV4k200, VAX4k300, VAX4k400 > and a PDP11-73. Enough QBus boxen to play. OK. I miss a KA640 > based machine. But none of them brings that power in that small > footprint and is easy to interface to lots of storage, i.e. > SCSI. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:29:24 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 10:50:58AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it > > to > > the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 21 > From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:16:39 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Hi all, > I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at > http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got > copies > of: > VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus > ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler > V1.10", > "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so > may be a tape->ROM conversion. > ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 > (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." > > Has anyone here got any documentation for these assemblers? I'd like > to > get at least one of them to assemble *something*. Perhaps a "Hello World" > program? > Also, Vasm outputs Intel Hex files from what I can gather - does > anyone > here have an Intel Hex -> Binary converter for the BBC Micro? > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0800 (PST) > From: "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw(a)mesanet.com> > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > > I have a few VT1300's with SPX badges and SPX cards inside, so at least > the > Xterm verison of the KA42/SPX seems to have been supported... > > > Peter Wallace > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 23 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:23:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: IBM 5322 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > The System 23 I briefly worked on (as in 'got inside') had a DE9 > > connector for the printer IIRC. It was a _current loop_ serial port, > and > > of course the character set is EBCDIC (but as you say, that's a minor > > problem). > > I was wondering what that connector was. Now I know :) > > > I think (based on the current loop on the PC Async card) that IBM's > > convention was that transmiters were active and non-isolated, receivers > > were passive and opto-isolated, but do check this before hooking > > anything up. > > Cool, after the punch card project I actually know what you're talking > about ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 24 > Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > From: David Holland <dholland(a)woh.rr.com> > To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Date: 18 Jan 2003 13:07:13 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) > > The whole thing that torque's me off the worst about it is.. its 3x's > bigger than my PC, and its 3x's quieter... :) > > Anyways, If I'm off list focus, someone point it out to me, and I'll > hush, and wait for the Apple II stuff to respond too.. :-) > > David > > On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my > first > SGI > > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but > it's > > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK > > at > > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, > > it > > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the > browser > > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it > took > close > > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I > was > > > curious about). > > > > > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to > the > > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > > > > -brian. > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 25 > From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)canada.com> > To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: PET 2001 oddity > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:19:36 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a > dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine > home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. > 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking > about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. > > I sometimes toy with the idea of building > a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too > big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). > > Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the > discussion, but read on and saw that you're > in business. If you can't find any locally, > I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty > Canada. And they are used in pairs because > they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). > > One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, > is dead as well; this discussion just might > motivate me to have a look at it. > > Good luck! > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 26 > From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)canada.com> > To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:25:29 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > ---------------Original Message--------------- > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber(a)ix.netcom.com> > Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 > > Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC > ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? > > Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, > but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. > > Thanks, > Jeff > ------------------------------------------------------- > Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are > you looking for? > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 27 > From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)canada.com> > To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:29:05 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > ---------------------Original Message------------------------- > From: "Tim Myers" <tim.myers(a)sunplan.com> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > > Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system > (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an > electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. > Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. > > Tim. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most > reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, > although > I've > got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on > these. > > But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, > there > are > probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at > least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? > > Good luck, > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 28 > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:32:58 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > The biggest thing however for anybody doing repair > > is get all the doc's you can even before you start > > repairing something.A schematic is a very useful > > Agreed (why do you think I have a few _thousand_ scheamtics/repair > manuals...). However, the schematic is not always available (maybe not > anywhere any more), so it can be useful to be able to make guesses and > 'find your way aobut' without a schematic. Alas this comes with (a lot > of) practice... > > > PS Caps are the first thing to go in any equiment > > unless you let the magic smoke out first. > > Hmmm.. Not always. I've had a number of HP98x0 machines on the bench in > the last few months. I've had to change _one_ electrolytic capacitor and > about 20 TTL chipes (particularly 74Hxx parts). And we all know that 2114 > RAM chips are often dead... > > -tony > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 29 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:13:48 -0800 > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 > >94356 > >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's > >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. > > That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) > > >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and > > A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The > TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 30 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:26:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? > It's > > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to > its > > specialised music abilities. > > Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 31 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:38:05 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> > To: Classic Computer <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get > > it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after > > this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how > > Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the > Apple > > 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. > > > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone > know > > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to > send > > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > > is no shot in ever getting them. > > Ok, I guess its time I post on the list about this... > > I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main > problems > that I came up with are: > 1. certain parts are difficult to find > 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability > 3. re-creating the pc boards > > The first problem should be possible to overcome either by finding a > stock > of surplus parts, or should significant demand exist, having the parts > made by a company that specializes in fabricating out of production > parts. > I've actually looked into the later a couple times in the past, and the > prices didn't seem to be out of line. I've even wondered if it would be > possible to get a copy of the mask from Intel for say the i8008 or i4004 > and have reproductions made. > > The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. > One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder > all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned > images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have > the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who > would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. > > Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and > see > if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from > emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including > people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd > imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it > would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info > that we'd need. > > -Toth > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 32 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:41:14 -0500 > From: David Gesswein <djg(a)drs-esg.com> > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > > Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) > > 1 of 16 decoder > > 1 : 0 > 2 : 1 > 3 : 2 > 4 : 3 > 5 : 4 > 6 : 5 > 7 : 6 > 8 : 7 > 9 : 8 > 10 : 9 > 11 : 10 > 12 : Gnd > 13 : 11 > 14 : 12 > 15 : 13 > 16 : 14 > 17 : 15 > 18 : E1 > 19 : E2 > 20 : A3 > 21 : A2 > 22 : A1 > 23 : A0 > 24 : Vcc > > E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low > > Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) > Probably same as NSC > http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf > > Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) > > 1 : Q6 > 2 : Q7 > 3 : Q8 > 4 : Q9 > 5 : Q10 > 6 : ClK1/ > 7 : CLK2 > 8 : Gnd > 9 : Clr/ > 10 : Serial In > 11 : Q1 > 12 : Q2 > 13 : Q3 > 14 : Q4 > 15 : Q5 > 16 : Vcc > > Clk2 low and clk1 works > clk1 high and clk2 works > clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to > clock the flip flops. > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 33 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:53:42 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > > > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors > > > for programmers & such. > > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built > in > > modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in > > vi for the most part... > > I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing > source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet > taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be > missing > out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), > but joe is fast and does what I need it to. > > Somewhere, I have a complete Wordstar set for the Apple II. IIRC, I > pulled > it and some other complete Apple II software from a trash pile back in > 1998 or so. > > -Toth > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 34 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:13:01 PST > From: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Antonio Carlini <arcarlini(a)iee.org> wrote: > > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference > between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In > > this > case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But > even > if > the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x > models, > I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". > > AFAIK > it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, > > not > the other way around. > > If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it > > looks > at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of > > the > ROM. > > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. > > Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. > > BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not > just > disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be > enabled > and disabled as you like? > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 35 > From: "Gareth Knight" <knight.beat(a)ntlworld.com> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: New classic > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:20:36 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm > First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: > ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the > pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips are > responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will be > developed this weekend." > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member > http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 36 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:28:06 PST > From: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> wrote: > > > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > > or cd set. > > Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? > > BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like > > to > use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or > not. > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 37 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) > From: vance(a)neurotica.com > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org, <geeks(a)sunhelp.org> > Subject: MCA Fast Ethernet Cards > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an > email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. > > Peace... Sridhar > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 38 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:32:12 -0800 (PDT) > From: Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> > To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > > list? > > Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list > who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. > There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, > and a few Crays. > > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v > logic, > > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but > they're > > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy > and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about > the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My > introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. > > About a year ago my employer returned several pallets worth of Indigo2s > and Indys (~80-100 systems) to SGI for trade ins on Octane2s. It took > about 6 months for SGI to even bother to come and pick them up. I've a > feeling they all ended up being dumpstered once they got back to SGI. > Saving them was out of the question as a list of serial numbers had been > given to SGI; because they were trade ins, they actually had to be > traded in. It's too bad. > > On another note, perhaps more related to the list, the new building that > the Computer History Museum is moving into is actually the old SGI > headquarters on Shoreline Dr. in Mountain View. It's a lovely building; > I can't wait until they get things prettied up and moved into the new > location. > > -brian. > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 39 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:51:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > I have a UV3100-90 and I've been close to a VAX 4000-100 (it > just wasn't mine). The VAX 4000-100 enclosure has a distinctive > sloping part at the back which houses the Qbus (and DSSI?) > connectors. I didn't get to look closely enough to see whether > this housing is an add-on to the UV3100-90 enclosure or the whole > case is a manufacturing modification of that enclosure. Either way, > the standard shipping UV3100-90 enclosure does not have anywhere > for Qbus and DSSI connectors. > > I'll look for pinouts if I can dig up the right docs. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 40 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" <red(a)bears.org> > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > I just hauled home an m38 that had... an SPX installed. Right after I > bought an SPX card for my m76, to replace the GPX in it. The two SPX > cards > are identical in every way (except possibly dustiness). > > ok > r. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 41 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:08:55 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" <red(a)bears.org> > To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > Uh.. > > Or you could go spend $1 on some felt and glue at the craft store, and > fix > it. > > ok > r. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 42 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:14:35 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > All, > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > model. Anyone have a clue? > > --fred > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 43 > Subject: Apple 1 schematics > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:22:30 -0500 > From: chris <cb(a)mythtech.net> > To: "Classic Computer" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it > by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I > noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first > customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was > first shown at Home Brew. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > is no shot in ever getting them. > > -chris > <http://www.mythtech.net> > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 44 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:23:32 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Jochen writes: > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > --fred > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 45 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 13:44:31 PST > From: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> wrote: > > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > Not me. My 4.3BSD suffix is Quasijarus, not Tahoe or Reno. But my opinion > > on > SHAC is radically different from yours. SHAC is a darling beauty. It is a > problem only for cheap OSes like NutBSD and Linsux. Since SHAC is a true > CI > host adapter with the true Generic VAX Port (GVP) it is perfectly > supported > by > the SCA CI port driver present in every proper VAX OS with SCA such as > Ultrix. > Although DEC killed VAX Ultrix before MicroVAXen with SHAC came about, > source > examination shows that the Ultrix V4.20 CI port driver supports SHAC (on > XMI). > Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 46 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:13:56 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > From: "Eric Smith" <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > chris asks about Apple I schematics. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > A: Yes. > B: Google is your friend. > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... > > It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have > been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit > MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > > > just as the first users probably did. > > Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB > yourself.) > > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 47 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:16:19 +0000 > From: John Honniball <coredump(a)gifford.co.uk> > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? > > If the RL02s are like the RL01, there's a little metal panel on the > side, near the "switch". Unscrew that, and you should see the solenoid > interlock mechanism. Fiddle with that, and the "switch" should open > the top cover. > > You'll need to lock the heads down if you're going to ship the drives. > There's a little metal flap below the head carriage, visible with the > top cover open and no pack in the drive. A single screw holds it in the > "open" position. Loosen the screw, turn the flap 90 degrees, then > tighten the screw. The flap is now in front of the head carriage, > preventing it from moving. > > > Pickup in Austin, Texas.. > > I know someone here in Bristol who'd take the RL02s, if they weren't > so far away. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump(a)gifford.co.uk > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 48 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:19:34 +0000 > From: John Honniball <coredump(a)gifford.co.uk> > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > chris wrote: > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > Parts of the Apple I schematics are shown in the second edition of > "Fire In The Valley". Not enought to build a complete replica, > though. You can see, however, that there's an option for installing > either a 6502 CPU or a 6800. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump(a)gifford.co.uk > > > > > End of cctech Digest > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com End of cctech Digest --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003

23 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape

by jwillis＠dahmer.vistech.net

Greetings, Does anyone know of a source for Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape? (TU80) Thanks, John W.

23 years, 3 months

1
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0 0

Fwd: Commodore Collection

by gene＠ehrich.com

In case anyone is interested: >From: DA Floyd <dfloyd1009(a)CS.COM> >Subject: Commodore Collection >To: COMMODOR(a)LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Hello everyone > >I have a collection of vintage computers, including a significant >Commodore collection including a C64's, C128, Plus 4, Vic's, Commodore >monitor, printer, etc. I also have Apples, TI's, Timex Sinclair's and >IBM's. I want to sell it all...anyone have any suggestions of where I can >go to sell this stuff? > >Thanks > >Duane A. Floyd >dfloyd1009(a)cs.com

23 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Wang 2200T available in Auckland, NZ

by frustum＠pacbell.net

I was contacted by a man who has a friend looking to get rid of a "Wang 2200T". I don't know if it is just the CPU, or an entire system. A 2200T was the last of the first generation 2200 CPUs, put out just before starting the 2200VP line. >From: Neil Stichbury <Neil.Stichbury(a)gen-i.co.nz> >To: "'frustum(a)pacbell.net'" <frustum(a)pacbell.net> >Subject: 2200T >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:27:50 +1300 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > >I have a colleague who has a 2200T in his garage, believed to be working. >Of use to anyone ?. > > >Neil Stichbury >Client Services Specialist > >gen-i > technology*passion*success > >9 City Road, Auckland, New Zealand >Ph: +64 9 306 4717 >Fax: +64 9 306 4543 >Mob: +64 21 274 9136 >E-mail: Neil.Stichbury(a)gen-i.co.nz >Web: www.gen-i.co.nz > >* People Achieving Success Through Technology * A followup email said: >Hi Jim, >It's in Auckland. We can possibly 'assist' with transportation costs as we >would rather give it to a good home than dump it. > >Regards, >Neil Stichbury According to his web page, gen-i used to be known as "wang new zealand", so I suspect he knows what he is talking about! ----- Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net

23 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium!

by kandres＠epssecurity.com

To all, (for fear of missing someone!) I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. It doesn't even get to a prompt, but I suspect the screen full of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an [ENTER] key is telling me a video RAM went south. As with most of everyone else, I wish to be independently wealthy, so I can devote ALL my time to these playthings, alas and alack this is not to be, a living must be earned! I have toyed with swapping a CD6264 and or multiples into the mother board even going so far as to quick doing an internet circuit board to accomodate them. Time is the major constraint here. I also remember an article or text which referenced adding perhaps a dynamic memory pack from another machine to the expander plug, with an appropriate R & C stobe assembly supplying what the PET didn't have. Whoa, memories!!!! I have looked at the serial number several times and always neglect to write it down. I early on, 1975 or there abouts, added a reset button to the front panel because of my tendency to lock the silly thing up with my incessant poking around. I know I also have several of the early tomes on the PET in the basement, along with a couple of Kilobaud articles reference the machine. Kev kandres(a)epssecurity.com -----Original Message----- From: cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:56 AM To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #320 - 48 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech(a)classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Bill Bradford) 2. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Dave McGuire) 3. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) 4. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) 5. RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) 6. PET 2001 oddity - solved! (Adrian Vickers) 7. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Antonio Carlini) 8. RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) 9. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) 10. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) 11. Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Kenneth Donchatz) 12. Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Cameron Kaiser) 13. Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) 14. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) 15. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) 16. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Fred deBros) 17. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com) 18. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Doc Shipley) 19. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) 20. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) 21. BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed (Philip Pemberton) 22. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Peter C. Wallace) 23. Re: IBM 5322 (Sellam Ismail) 24. SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (David Holland) 25. PET 2001 oddity (M H Stein) 26. T&B Ansley IDC connectors (M H Stein) 27. PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed (M H Stein) 28. Re: About Electronics Questions (Tony Duell) 29. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Zane H. Healy) 30. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... (Sellam Ismail) 31. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Tothwolf) 32. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (David Gesswein) 33. Re: DOS 1.0 (Tothwolf) 34. RE: Hobbled NVAX (Michael Sokolov) 35. New classic (Gareth Knight) 36. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) 37. MCA Fast Ethernet Cards (vance(a)neurotica.com) 38. Re: SGI Discussions? (Brian Chase) 39. RE: VXT X terminal question (Antonio Carlini) 40. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (r. 'bear' stricklin) 41. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (r. 'bear' stricklin) 42. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) 43. Apple 1 schematics (chris) 44. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) 45. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) 46. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Eric Smith) 47. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (John Honniball) 48. Re: Apple 1 schematics (John Honniball) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0600 From: Bill Bradford <mrbill(a)mrbill.net> To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 was a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. Pictures: http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in Austin, Texas.. Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and the MINC-11 and the racks. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net austin, texas --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:58:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: mrbill(a)mrbill.net, cctech(a)classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > Austin, Texas.. The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. I would really like to have the RL02s but I have no idea how I'd get them from you. :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:31 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= <julesrichardsonuk(a)yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org >> just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 >> >Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is 25-ANC13-1000038. well if Rob's was the last then they obviously didn't do a very good job of numbering things :-) Unless Rob's was the last one released by Acorn, but they all sat in storage for a while... > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther there's a sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at least they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but scanning those would be a major pain I expect!) that used to be the problem - the hardware used to get thrown out but discs would lie around on shelves until someone did a bit of spring cleaning now and then; they would have been trashed seperately and maybe straight into a bin in the office :-( cheers Jules (who has too many systems that don't work for lack of necessary discs :-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:37 GMT From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't take > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question > is, how to find out? Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If it does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a bad socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of PET I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike any other RAM chip. > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel or a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different versions of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to handle the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:48:41 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. I'm fairly sure the mainboards are identical (i.e. the same part number). I've never been inside a VAX 4000-100 so I've never had the chance to personally check this, but the last time I saw a parts list, the part numbers were the same. > Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be > permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash > ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover > that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is > disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and > reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the > change only in effect until the next power cycle? It's stored in the flash EPROM - it rewrites it as part of the test (and warns you not to switch off while it is doing so). The change is permanent (until you run the test again and switch back). I doubt HP care whether customers know this or not now. I doubt they cared even back then: switching from a UV3100-90 to a VAX 4000-100 didn't get you anything extra (unless you paid for a new case) and it did cost you more in licence fees. Switching the other way disabled Qbus and DSSI, so although your licence cost you less, you got less for it. And if you wanted the cheaper licence you would have bought the cheaper machine anyway! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:28:22 +0000 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org --=======74632786======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Woohoo! Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing as how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is this?) back to its original spot, and presto again - no BASIC. Swapped that chip for the one remaining spare, and presto^3! BASIC again. So, now I need more 2114's as an insurance policy... Meanwhile, I thank the list *again* for their invaluable help (Ethan, Mike & Pete in particular in this case). What would I do without you (except preside over a collection of steadily failing machines)? -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --=======74632786=======-- --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything would run on it without more code being written). > So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge > upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. > But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their > own independent connections to CDAL. You are probably right - I just threw in "as necessary" because I don't have a KA42 block diagram handy (in fact, I may not have one at all - there is not much info floating around on these and the early UVAX 3100 systems). > But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, > the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 > dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) > if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I > could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL > bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. I don't know why they rolled their own. Given that they used or modified existing designs where possible, I assume that there were good reasons. Perhaps the existing design was too slow or took up too much room (this latter consideration was definitely very important for the -90). > BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual > for VS3100 (any > model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks > like one never existed. Do you have any more info? No - and I could never find any even while I was inside DEC. There must have been *some* such documentation but it was nowhere I could find. > Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in > my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it There's not a lot of technical info on the KA43 either! > Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was > EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) Typo. > >http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT > >But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 hardware. Yes, I've read that one and it's not the one. I was sure that there was an article describing the VXT2000 itself, but I guess since I cannot find it either on the web or in my docs, I must have imagined it. Oh well. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:11:19 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility > by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with > different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is I assume so too. > to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled > firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). > They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. size and config of backup cache or something like that) to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code that disables the VIC and NOP it out. I doubt that the code was protected too much: it would have been way beyond most customers' ability to alter it. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:49:24 +0000 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org --=======54493991======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> wrote: > > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... > >Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There >are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. >They use different ROMs and RAMs. OK, I can but try.... According to the sticker on the back, this is a 2001-8BS. The motherboard layout appears to be the same as the one pictured on www.zimmers.net on the 4k/8k layout. I've taken some photos of my motherboard, which can now be found here: http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_front.jpg http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_back.jpg http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_side.jpg NOTE: Each picture is approx 449K = long download over a modem! >Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ >RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a >full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would >most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the States, >it says "2001" on the front. > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... >. >. >. > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got > > a flakey memory chip... > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > >Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are >upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 Personally, I'd rather keep this one as original as possible, i.e. keep the original (buggy) ROMs. However, if it means keeping it working, then I'm prepared to substitute the MOS ROMs with a board/set of boards containing more modern EPROMs wired appropriately containing the original images. Not that I've got a clue how to go about doing that, mind... > > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > >BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs >prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, >minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 >to add room for diskette commands. > >In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware >(better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). >These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other applications >were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has >anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, >that's probably why. Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > >The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate >a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It >was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 (when I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, I forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as if it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be essential). Anyway, if it *is* a failing RAM chip, my guess is it's the one which sits near the bottom of BASIC memory, since the first line number causes a crash. Does anyone have a map showing the correlation between memory addresses & specific chips? If it's on the schematics, I'll be looking there next (so no need to answer that question). <snip the rest for brevity> Ta for that, all good info! Thus, the order of the day is: 1) Try to determine which 2114 chip might have gone bad, either by sequenced swapping or by trying to be clever with the schematics. 2) If that doesn't fix it, re-seat all ROMs. 3) If that doesn't fix it, go to plan C - which doesn't exist yet... Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best way of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol which would suffice - recommendations please! >Good luck, Thanks - I'm going to need that (in place of specific skills :) >P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a >great site with schematics and firmware. I already knew of it, but had forgotten how useful it might be. Will check that out next. Ta! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --=======54493991=======-- --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:43 +0000 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org --=======37E27F29======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:37 18/01/2003, you wrote: >On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't >take > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got >a > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The >question > > is, how to find out? > >Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If it >does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a bad >socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of PET >I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike >any other RAM chip. Hi Pete, It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > >No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel or >a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. Damn, I just *knew* it wouldn't be that easy. > And in the early >PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different versions >of PETs had different ROMs. AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all MOS6540s. >If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to >shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to handle >the multiple select lines. Harrumph. Guess which one it has... Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get my MicroMAT going. >The good news, though, is that I have a >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it >;-) That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift about than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & suchlike. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --=======37E27F29=======-- --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) From: Kenneth Donchatz <kendonchatz(a)yahoo.com> Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school and helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and rot. Ken Donchatz kendonchatz(a)yahoo.com Columbus, Ohio --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream.  It's loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school and helped me launch my career.  When my employer switched over to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead.  For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting.  Everything works perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original.  Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and rot. Ken Donchatz <A href="mailto:kendonchatz@yahoo.com">kendonchatz(a)yahoo.com</A> Columbus, Ohio <hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!? <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign up now</a> --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979-- --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> Subject: Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:09:47 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. Which model? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Of course I run NetBSD. --------------------------------------------- ------- --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:34:45 GMT From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Jan 18, 13:28, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing as > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. Good! > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > this?) A 2114 is 1K x 4 bits wide, so they're used in pairs to make bytes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:59 GMT From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Hi, Ade. On Jan 18, 12:55, Adrian Vickers wrote: > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). Good! If it *is* a RAM fault, and you can't find one at a reasonable price, let me know. I think I still have a small number spare. > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all > MOS6540s. Drat. Let's hope it's not a ROM fault. Sadly, my copy of "The PET Revealed" with its mostly-legible (!) circuit diagrams, shows the later board with 2332s. But I do have a copy of the MPS6540 pinout somewhere. > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get > my MicroMAT going. > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > >;-) > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift about > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & suchlike. OK. Give me shout if you want me to start burrowing. Or come and pay a visit... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:29:23 GMT From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the capacity of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard PET and no spare sockets. > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be essential). I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, paintbrush (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash it after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount of static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of places like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually lead to corrosion. In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used the dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, too, and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't use a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper labels, etc. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Fred deBros" <fdebros(a)verizon.net> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. Mine does and it is just a matter on which pin you pick it up in the back of the box! I'd have to go to my office to ck it again. Fred --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:42:37 GMT From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther there's a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to format to use for the images? I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, the PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 18 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:09:30 -0600 (CST) From: Doc Shipley <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. Doc --__--__-- Message: 19 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:21:03 +0100 From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:38:58PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way > of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane >from a dead and rotten BA23. > > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > > MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. > It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that > I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of > other Qbus boxes around. I have a MV II, MV III, MV3900, MV4k200, VAX4k300, VAX4k400 and a PDP11-73. Enough QBus boxen to play. OK. I miss a KA640 based machine. But none of them brings that power in that small footprint and is easy to interface to lots of storage, i.e. SCSI. -- tschu?, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz --__--__-- Message: 20 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:29:24 +0100 From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 10:50:58AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it to > the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. -- tschu?, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz --__--__-- Message: 21 From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:16:39 -0000 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Hi all, I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got copies of: VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler V1.10", "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so may be a tape->ROM conversion. ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." Has anyone here got any documentation for these assemblers? I'd like to get at least one of them to assemble *something*. Perhaps a "Hello World" program? Also, Vasm outputs Intel Hex files from what I can gather - does anyone here have an Intel Hex -> Binary converter for the BBC Micro? Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ --__--__-- Message: 22 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw(a)mesanet.com> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). I have a few VT1300's with SPX badges and SPX cards inside, so at least the Xterm verison of the KA42/SPX seems to have been supported... Peter Wallace --__--__-- Message: 23 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:23:06 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: IBM 5322 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The System 23 I briefly worked on (as in 'got inside') had a DE9 > connector for the printer IIRC. It was a _current loop_ serial port, and > of course the character set is EBCDIC (but as you say, that's a minor > problem). I was wondering what that connector was. Now I know :) > I think (based on the current loop on the PC Async card) that IBM's > convention was that transmiters were active and non-isolated, receivers > were passive and opto-isolated, but do check this before hooking > anything up. Cool, after the punch card project I actually know what you're talking about ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 24 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? From: David Holland <dholland(a)woh.rr.com> To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Date: 18 Jan 2003 13:07:13 -0500 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the list? (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse pad too much for my tastes.) The whole thing that torque's me off the worst about it is.. its 3x's bigger than my PC, and its 3x's quieter... :) Anyways, If I'm off list focus, someone point it out to me, and I'll hush, and wait for the Apple II stuff to respond too.. :-) David On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my first SGI > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but it's > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK at > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, it > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the browser > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it took close > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I was > > curious about). > > > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to the > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > > -brian. > --__--__-- Message: 25 From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)canada.com> To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: PET 2001 oddity Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:19:36 -0500 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. I sometimes toy with the idea of building a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the discussion, but read on and saw that you're in business. If you can't find any locally, I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty Canada. And they are used in pairs because they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, is dead as well; this discussion just might motivate me to have a look at it. Good luck! mike --__--__-- Message: 26 From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)canada.com> To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org ---------------Original Message--------------- Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber(a)ix.netcom.com> Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. Thanks, Jeff ------------------------------------------------------- Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are you looking for? mike --__--__-- Message: 27 From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)canada.com> To: "'ClassicComputers'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:29:05 -0500 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org ---------------------Original Message------------------------- From: "Tim Myers" <tim.myers(a)sunplan.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. Tim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, although I've got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on these. But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, there are probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? Good luck, mike --__--__-- Message: 28 From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:32:58 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > The biggest thing however for anybody doing repair > is get all the doc's you can even before you start > repairing something.A schematic is a very useful Agreed (why do you think I have a few _thousand_ scheamtics/repair manuals...). However, the schematic is not always available (maybe not anywhere any more), so it can be useful to be able to make guesses and 'find your way aobut' without a schematic. Alas this comes with (a lot of) practice... > PS Caps are the first thing to go in any equiment > unless you let the magic smoke out first. Hmmm.. Not always. I've had a number of HP98x0 machines on the bench in the last few months. I've had to change _one_ electrolytic capacitor and about 20 TTL chipes (particularly 74Hxx parts). And we all know that 2114 RAM chips are often dead... -tony --__--__-- Message: 29 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:13:48 -0800 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 >94356 >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | --__--__-- Message: 30 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:26:42 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? It's > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its > specialised music abilities. Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 31 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:38:05 -0600 (CST) From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> To: Classic Computer <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get > it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after > this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how > Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple > 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > is no shot in ever getting them. Ok, I guess its time I post on the list about this... I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main problems that I came up with are: 1. certain parts are difficult to find 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability 3. re-creating the pc boards The first problem should be possible to overcome either by finding a stock of surplus parts, or should significant demand exist, having the parts made by a company that specializes in fabricating out of production parts. I've actually looked into the later a couple times in the past, and the prices didn't seem to be out of line. I've even wondered if it would be possible to get a copy of the mask from Intel for say the i8008 or i4004 and have reproductions made. The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and see if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info that we'd need. -Toth --__--__-- Message: 32 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:41:14 -0500 From: David Gesswein <djg(a)drs-esg.com> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) 1 of 16 decoder 1 : 0 2 : 1 3 : 2 4 : 3 5 : 4 6 : 5 7 : 6 8 : 7 9 : 8 10 : 9 11 : 10 12 : Gnd 13 : 11 14 : 12 15 : 13 16 : 14 17 : 15 18 : E1 19 : E2 20 : A3 21 : A2 22 : A1 23 : A0 24 : Vcc E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) Probably same as NSC http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) 1 : Q6 2 : Q7 3 : Q8 4 : Q9 5 : Q10 6 : ClK1/ 7 : CLK2 8 : Gnd 9 : Clr/ 10 : Serial In 11 : Q1 12 : Q2 13 : Q3 14 : Q4 15 : Q5 16 : Vcc Clk2 low and clk1 works clk1 high and clk2 works clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to clock the flip flops. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. --__--__-- Message: 33 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:53:42 -0600 (CST) From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors > > for programmers & such. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built in > modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in > vi for the most part... I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be missing out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), but joe is fast and does what I need it to. Somewhere, I have a complete Wordstar set for the Apple II. IIRC, I pulled it and some other complete Apple II software from a trash pile back in 1998 or so. -Toth --__--__-- Message: 34 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:13:01 PST From: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Antonio Carlini <arcarlini(a)iee.org> wrote: > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In this case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But even if the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x models, I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". AFAIK it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, not the other way around. If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it looks at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of the ROM. > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not just disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be enabled and disabled as you like? MS --__--__-- Message: 35 From: "Gareth Knight" <knight.beat(a)ntlworld.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: New classic Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:20:36 -0000 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips are responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will be developed this weekend." -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html --__--__-- Message: 36 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:28:06 PST From: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Fred N. van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> wrote: > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > or cd set. Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like to use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or not. MS --__--__-- Message: 37 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) From: vance(a)neurotica.com To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org, <geeks(a)sunhelp.org> Subject: MCA Fast Ethernet Cards Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. Peace... Sridhar --__--__-- Message: 38 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:32:12 -0800 (PDT) From: Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, and a few Crays. > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. About a year ago my employer returned several pallets worth of Indigo2s and Indys (~80-100 systems) to SGI for trade ins on Octane2s. It took about 6 months for SGI to even bother to come and pick them up. I've a feeling they all ended up being dumpstered once they got back to SGI. Saving them was out of the question as a list of serial numbers had been given to SGI; because they were trade ins, they actually had to be traded in. It's too bad. On another note, perhaps more related to the list, the new building that the Computer History Museum is moving into is actually the old SGI headquarters on Shoreline Dr. in Mountain View. It's a lovely building; I can't wait until they get things prettied up and moved into the new location. -brian. --__--__-- Message: 39 From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:51:41 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > from a dead and rotten BA23. I have a UV3100-90 and I've been close to a VAX 4000-100 (it just wasn't mine). The VAX 4000-100 enclosure has a distinctive sloping part at the back which houses the Qbus (and DSSI?) connectors. I didn't get to look closely enough to see whether this housing is an add-on to the UV3100-90 enclosure or the whole case is a manufacturing modification of that enclosure. Either way, the standard shipping UV3100-90 enclosure does not have anywhere for Qbus and DSSI connectors. I'll look for pinouts if I can dig up the right docs. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org --__--__-- Message: 40 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 -0500 (EST) From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" <red(a)bears.org> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. I just hauled home an m38 that had... an SPX installed. Right after I bought an SPX card for my m76, to replace the GPX in it. The two SPX cards are identical in every way (except possibly dustiness). ok r. --__--__-- Message: 41 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:08:55 -0500 (EST) From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" <red(a)bears.org> To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) Uh.. Or you could go spend $1 on some felt and glue at the craft store, and fix it. ok r. --__--__-- Message: 42 Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:14:35 +0100 From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org All, Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX model. Anyone have a clue? --fred --__--__-- Message: 43 Subject: Apple 1 schematics Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:22:30 -0500 From: chris <cb(a)mythtech.net> To: "Classic Computer" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist anywhere? I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there is no shot in ever getting them. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> --__--__-- Message: 44 Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:23:32 +0100 From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Jochen writes: > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? --fred --__--__-- Message: 45 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 13:44:31 PST From: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Fred N. van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> wrote: > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? Not me. My 4.3BSD suffix is Quasijarus, not Tahoe or Reno. But my opinion on SHAC is radically different from yours. SHAC is a darling beauty. It is a problem only for cheap OSes like NutBSD and Linsux. Since SHAC is a true CI host adapter with the true Generic VAX Port (GVP) it is perfectly supported by the SCA CI port driver present in every proper VAX OS with SCA such as Ultrix. Although DEC killed VAX Ultrix before MicroVAXen with SHAC came about, source examination shows that the Ultrix V4.20 CI port driver supports SHAC (on XMI). Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. MS --__--__-- Message: 46 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:13:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics From: "Eric Smith" <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org chris asks about Apple I schematics. > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? A: Yes. B: Google is your friend. > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > just as the first users probably did. Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB yourself.) --__--__-- Message: 47 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:16:19 +0000 From: John Honniball <coredump(a)gifford.co.uk> Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? If the RL02s are like the RL01, there's a little metal panel on the side, near the "switch". Unscrew that, and you should see the solenoid interlock mechanism. Fiddle with that, and the "switch" should open the top cover. You'll need to lock the heads down if you're going to ship the drives. There's a little metal flap below the head carriage, visible with the top cover open and no pack in the drive. A single screw holds it in the "open" position. Loosen the screw, turn the flap 90 degrees, then tighten the screw. The flap is now in front of the head carriage, preventing it from moving. > Pickup in Austin, Texas.. I know someone here in Bristol who'd take the RL02s, if they weren't so far away. -- John Honniball coredump(a)gifford.co.uk --__--__-- Message: 48 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:19:34 +0000 From: John Honniball <coredump(a)gifford.co.uk> Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org chris wrote: > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? Parts of the Apple I schematics are shown in the second edition of "Fire In The Valley". Not enought to build a complete replica, though. You can see, however, that there's an option for installing either a 6502 CPU or a 6800. -- John Honniball coredump(a)gifford.co.uk End of cctech Digest --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003

23 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Looking for...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

..info/manuals on the following Apple ][ compatable boards: SEC Echo][ Speech Synth Mountain Hardware Apple Clock Thanks; -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw

23 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

IBM SYS/36 SOFTWARE NEEDED

by n8uhn＠yahoo.com

Hi All, I'm looking for some software for the ibm 5360 ibm sys/36. needed is the basic compiler (sys/36 basic) and a set of diagnostic disks. i do have eia comms and the optional trailer/disk c (three hd's) on the system. copies are ok for both as long as the diag copies are copied onto diag formated diskettes (the diag format is different then the normal format, but can be done on any system 36). r2r tape is fine also - i have the r2r tape drive on my sys/36. ALSO, if anyone needs sys/36 r2r tapes copied onto diskette, i can do that. Bill (n8uhn at yahoo dot com) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

23 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

What's better than canned air?

by jss＠subatomix.com

The goal: extremely localized, high-velocity stream of air. I want to remove dust and crud from those impossible nooks and crannies of classiccmps. Current solution: canned air - expensive, doesn't work well after one or two minutes of spraying, not really high enough velocity. Bad. Other options: - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? -- Jeffrey Sharp

23 years, 3 months

19
24
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Apple Powerbook 100 offered

by vcf＠siconic.com

See below. Contact original sender. From the Yahoo! trailer and the fact that I have been receiving traffic from there, he's probably from South America. Reply-to: j_arenas(a)yahoo.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:26:26 -0300 (ART) From: JOSE ARENAS <j_arenas(a)yahoo.com> To: vcf(a)vintage.org Subject: sell old apple laptop i want to sell my old laptop characteristics: apple macintosh powerbook 100 made in usa with floppy disk unit and power unit all funtions ok with printer contact: j_arenas(a)yahoo.com --------------------------------- Y! Messenger en tu celular: prob? el nuevo Yahoo! Messenger para SMS aqu? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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Fluke POD question

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Does anyone know what the 9900 POD does? This was a question sent to me. Thanks

23 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

RK07 repairable?

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. I am a bit excited. Today I inspected a RK07 that I will get "delivered" next week. It was stored in a garage for some years so there is some minor corosion. Mostly the screws are covered with "white powder" and the rack is a bit rusty. Most of the machanics seams to be made of stainless steel and some casted metal (alu?) that isn't coroded. So I am in good hope to get it working. My main concern is the glas plate from the optical positioner that is broken off. I have the plate, it is still intact. I "just" need to glue it back to the head assembly. But then, I think, I would need to recalibrate the positioner or somthing. Is it that simple? Or is this defect a show stoper? (I know to handle a soldering iron and a oscilloscope.) What makes me a bit excited is that I will get the machine that this drive was connected to too. AFAIK there whas only a UNIBUS controller for this drive. The previous owner of the RK07 says that the machine was a PDP-11 but he don't know the exact model. I know that the "sister" of this machine is a /34. This would fit to the description: Big 19" box mounted in a "low boy" rack. I hope it is a /34. I am lusting for a non microprocessor UNIBUS machine for quie some time. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

23 years, 3 months

4
9
0 0

Ressurecting Mac Plus

by cb＠mythtech.net

>I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I >can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an >old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use >this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy >chicken.). Apple has available for download both System 6.0.8 and System 7.5.5. System 6.0.8 is what I would personally recommed for that system, but it will run up to the 7.5.5 (to do 7.5.5 make sure you have installed the full 4 MB of RAM). Now, getting it TO the Mac Plus, that can be a bit more of a challenge. The Mac Plus has a single 800K drive. So you will need to download the disk images from Apple's web site, and then make 800K disks from them. I don't off hand recall if the 6.0.8 images are 800K or 1.44K images, but I know the System 7.5 images are 1.44K. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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Fluke POD question

by glenslick＠hotmail.com

The 9010A is the main unit. It needs processor specific pods. The 9900 pod is for the 9900 processor. http://www.spies.com/~arcade/TE/ >From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> > >--- Keys <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> wrote: > > Does anyone know what the 9900 POD does? This was a question sent to >me. > > Thanks > >9900? When I think of Flukes and pods, I think of the 9010A. What's >a 9900? > >-ethan _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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Wanted: TU8x drive, RA7x enclosure

by jwillis＠arielusa.com

Wanted: TU8x (TU80, TU81, TU81+) tape drive RA7x enclosure/control panel

23 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

What's better than canned air?

by cb＠mythtech.net

>> The only things I don't like are it doesn't last very long. So I find I >> have to refill more often than I would like. Part of the rapid loss of >> air is because one of my connections isn't air tight, so if I leave the >> tank turned on, it slowly bleeds itself (it will go empty over night), > >Is it a screw fitting? Take it apart and wind 4"-6" of PTFE tape round it >the male fitting. You can get the tape from any place that sells air >accessories or vacuum pumps, or most plumbers suppliers. I believe the leak is in one of the screw fittings. They didn't provide tape with the tank when I bought it, instead they provided a small tube of sealant, and the tube was WAY to small to do the job (barely enough to properly seal one fitting, much less the other 4 needed to complete the setup!). So I am sure the leak is just one of the fittings that I did with no tape or sealant. I've just never gotten around to buying the tape and taking it all back apart (about 2 or so years now that I have had the tank). Each time I think that I should run to the store and get a roll of tape... I figure I might as well just get a whole new compressor/tank combo so that I have a larger tank, and one that I can leave one and not worry about it blowing the tank... and then I think, I'll do just that, but I'll wait for a sale... then a sale comes, and I decide I don't want to spend the money... then I go to use my existing tank, forget to turn it off when done, and it leaks itself empty... and I think I should go to the store and get a roll of tape... and the cycle continues. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

What's better than canned air?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 21, 5:27, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > The goal: extremely localized, high-velocity stream of air. I want to remove > dust and crud from those impossible nooks and crannies of classiccmps. > > Current solution: canned air - expensive, doesn't work well after one or two > minutes of spraying, not really high enough velocity. Bad. Those cans get flipping cold, don't they? > Other options: > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? Beware static. And you may find the pressure isn't as high as you'd like. > - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? Scuba gear. > - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) If you find any, let me know :-) Maybe we can retrain/reprogram them to repair stuff too. > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). I've taken this out of order, because it's what I now use. I bought a small electric compressor and some air tools (used for other things than classic computers) for under UKP100 (about US$140). Things to watch out for: Compressors are fairly noisy animals. Mine is quiet as such things go, but still louder than the high-power vacuum cleaner I have. The vacuum is better than a blower to remove dust (think about where that dust will go). OTOH, a blower is much better for drying things off, or getting into things the vacuum+paintbrush can't. The vacuum, however, is better for spiders. Any fast-moving air stream can generate static. You can alleviate/prevent that by using a grounded metal nozzle. Even a small compressor will deliver pressures well in excess of 100 psi, and that's way too high for use on electronics. You can rip components off boards, never mind rip disk heads off. 20-40psi is perfectly adequate, and it will deliver higher velocity than most aerosol cans give you. One of the air tools I have is a small pistol-grip-style trigger-operated blow gun. You can buy them separately for about UKP3, or say $5. For example, see http://www.series4.co.uk/s4shop/en-gb/dept_123.html, or http://www.sip-group.com/PAGES/800x600%20PAGES/Air%20Tools.html (the one I use looks like 02130, under "Dustres" on that page). These are much easier than turning the Shop-Vac on and off. Many compressors include a small amount of oil in the airstream to lubricate air tools, deliberately added either by an oiler, or as a byproduct of the oil system used by the piston. However, you can get oil-less compressors perfectly easily, and oil any tools that need it by adding a drop in the inlet periodically, or fitting an oiler, or filter/water-collector/oiler combo, in the airline. They're not expensive. You can get cheap compressors without a receiver (air tank). Don't bother. You can also save a few $$$ (not many!) by buying one with a "regulator" which is really an adjustable blow-off valve to vent the excess air, rather than a proper pressure-reducing regulator. Given the choice, take the proper regulator; the compressor will usually also have a cut-off for the pump to stop it when it gets up to full pressure in the receiver. You *need* a *good* regulator to run an airbrush properly. If you want a compressor for other tools besides a blower, remember that the piston displacement, measured in cu.ft/min, is typically only about 2/3 the available air delivery you'll actually get, and a lot of hobbyist/low-usage compressor pumps are only rated for a 50% duty cycle (10 minutes on, 10 off, commonly). The pump gets HOT. If you ever plan on using something like a die grinder, you want a compressor rated for about three times (or more) the listed air consumption of the tool. If you buy quick-release couplings, be aware there are at least three standards, and they're not interchangeable. I'd recommend buying a small compressor. Mine is great, though I sometimes wish I'd bought a slightly bigger one. Whether you buy a scuba tank or a compressor, just think of the cost and inconvenience of ten cans of high-pressure air duster. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

What's better than canned air?

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> > >On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: >> > Other options: >> > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? >> Beware static!!! > >LOW pressure, high volume > >> > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). >> Compressors can add very small ammounts of oil to the air, thus SCUBA >> divers fill don't >> fill their tanks at the local gas station but instead us special >> compressors. > >gas stations also don't have >1000 PSI. > ---snip--- Today, they have those little coin operated compressors. When they used to have the large tanks, they would often have them set to 200 PSI. My brother made the mistake once while filling a bicycle tire that you don't just hold the button for several seconds before checking. He'd gotten used to filling car tires. It when errrRRRAck-BANG! He really blew the tire. I had to ride home and get his car to pick him up. It even bent the rim. Dwight

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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Intel 8212 and 8216 or equiv. needed

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

Hi Bill Jameco still list both 8212's and 8216's. Dwight >From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net> > >I've just finished building and checking out a minimal >Intel MCS-85 SDK. Was fun to build and runs like a champ. >Not bad for sitting in storage since 1979. The only >annoyance was that the black anti-static foam had turned >to crud and tarnished all of the IC pins. > >Anyway, now I would like to expand it a bit. The board >and schematics call for 2 8212 address drivers (24 pin dip) >and 5 8216 buss buffers (16 pin dip) to drive the interface >to the breadboarding area. All of the other chips on the >board have 1977 or 1978 date codes so, if possible, it >would be fun to get matching chips. If these things are >"hen's teeth", then I'll take whatever I can get. > >Thanks, >Bill > >

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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What's better than canned air?

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

Hi One should at a long bristle brush. Even with air, one still gets more effect from moving it around a little. I usually use a 1 inch wide paint brush. Dwight >From: "Jarkko Teppo" <jarkko.teppo(a)er-grp.com> > > >Jeffrey Sharp said: >> - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). > >Compressor. Works wonders for dust and good for removing those extra >TTL-chips from circuit boards. > >Canned air is (unless you're "in the field") useless. Couple of shots >and that's it. > >-- >jht

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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What's better than canned air?

by kapteynr＠cboe.com

Careful ! Compressed air is dry and in a dry environment the blowing action quickly generates a static charge. Most CC equipment is particularly sensitive to static damage. I prefer warm water and a brush -- sometimes with mild dishwashing soap. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jochen Kunz Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 6:47 AM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What's better than canned air? On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 05:27:49AM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? - Brush and vacuum cleaner. - Compressor. Use one that runs without oil. Some compressors need oil to run and are "contaminating" the air with it. Somtimes there are litle extra devices on the compressor to put a bit of oil into the air. Air driven machines need it. But it is not good for electronics. - Sometimes warm water and a brush to "simulate" a dishwasher. See the endless dishwasher discussion. Soak PCBs after washing in Isoprop and let it dry for some days. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

23 years, 3 months

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Intel 8212 and 8216 or equiv. needed

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

I've just finished building and checking out a minimal Intel MCS-85 SDK. Was fun to build and runs like a champ. Not bad for sitting in storage since 1979. The only annoyance was that the black anti-static foam had turned to crud and tarnished all of the IC pins. Anyway, now I would like to expand it a bit. The board and schematics call for 2 8212 address drivers (24 pin dip) and 5 8216 buss buffers (16 pin dip) to drive the interface to the breadboarding area. All of the other chips on the board have 1977 or 1978 date codes so, if possible, it would be fun to get matching chips. If these things are "hen's teeth", then I'll take whatever I can get. Thanks, Bill

23 years, 3 months

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SGI Crimson in WA state.

by dholland＠woh.rr.com

Should anybody be interested.. www.meco.org has a SGI Crimson in WA state. REF NUM: [crimson] ITEM NAME: Crimson VGXT CPU PRICE [345.02] Description: With 1.2G disk, 256M Ram, VGXT Graphics, DAT, and CDROM. Shipping on the bloomin' thing put it out of my price range. (And made it cost more than its worth.) David

23 years, 3 months

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11/34 PSU (Was: RK07 repairable?)

by GOOI＠oce.nl

AFAIK, the H7xx power bricks of the 11/34 (among others) work without any load. At least that is the way I repaired 2 of those up till now. When the voltage output is present (again), adjust it to the nominal value (without load). Expect a small adjustment of the output voltage when the brick is installed and connected in the PDP-11. Hint: make a note near the opening from where you adjust the potentiometer. It saves some sweat on your forehead when you think "which direction and how much do I turn the screwdriver?". success, - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] > Sent: dinsdag 21 januari 2003 12:18 > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: 11/34 PSU (Was: RK07 repairable?) > > > On Friday, January 17, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > One tip. If you have the 'bricks', make up an extension > cable -- 8 pin > > mate-n-lock plug to socket, all pins wired. You can run the 'bricks' > > outside the box then, for short periods with low load > > How low of a load can I go with the 11/34 bricks? > > (I want to start working on my 11/34 soon! It sounds like I > can still do > this with my very limited electronics knowledge.) > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > >

23 years, 3 months

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PDP-11 on eBay

by classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com

I don't have anything to do with this auction, but I though some of you DEC fans might be interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2302864132> &item=2302864132 Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com <http://www.vintage-computer.com/>

23 years, 3 months

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Updates to the Little Orphan Tomy Tutor site

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Updates have (finally) been made to the Little Orphan Tomy Tutor site. The Little Orphan page is devoted to the Texas Instruments' 99 series' close relative, the Tomy Tutor, containing general information, technical documentation, the only currently extant 'simulator' and photographs and type-in programs. Here are the new changes: * Tutti, the Tomy Tutor 'emulator' ('simulator') for the Commodore 64, is now upgraded to 0.3 with the beginnings of GBASIC support and a large number of bug fixes. * Type-in programs are now available, from simple educational examples to crazy hacks (tip of the hat to the Wizard Kludgefinder). * An exhaustive (?) GBASIC reference is now available, with a description of keywords and MONitor commands. * A new page, in progress, comparing the Texas Instruments series with the Tutor is now available. * A new front page tracks modification dates on files for easier navigation. * Additional technical notes on the 9918A(NL) on the hardware page. * Updates to the programming page to include GBASIC comparisons. * Custodial updates to the cartridge list, the Pyuuta page, and various link corrections. The site is located at http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/ Please mail me with corrections and comments. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This signature is free of dihydrogen monoxide! Ban it now! www.dhmo.org ----

23 years, 3 months

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Free stuff

by loedman1＠juno.com

The following hard drives were delivered to me yesterday, much to my Wife's dismay, and are looking for homes. All are supposed to function and as far as I know have not been erased (hmmm) Free for the actual shipping cost. (1) Conner CP3000 (2) Seagate ST-125 (3) Maxtor 7213AT (4) Maxtor 7245AT (5) Maxtor LXT340A (6) Maxtor MXT540A (3) (7) Conner CFA340A (8) Seagate ST-225 (2) (9) Seagate ST-238R Also received a bunch of miscellaneous chips and cards that I need to sort and identify that will be available Rich Stephenson

23 years, 3 months

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Core memory speeds

by Charles＠socketcom.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel [mailto:jos.mar@bluewin.ch] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:10 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Core memory speeds > > > On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, > > what was the access and cycle time of core memory > > before it vanished and just when did it do that? > > Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late > > 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks > > to be the transition stage from the the old to > > the new. Ben > > > My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) > lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us, > both for 8kx18 stacks. > > My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : > dated 1980, cycle time unknown. > > My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... > > > Jos Dreesen > With core memory the general rule was the smaller the donut the faster the cycle. The real limiting factors have always been the physical size of the array of cores. The plane, a mat of wires with little teeny-tiny ferrite donuts at each intersection, looks electrically like a lot of inductors all strung in series. This is a good configuration for a low pass filter that we are going to put a very fast pulse through. The bottom line of all this is that even fast core memory tends have around 0.490us write cycle times. Read cycles are always twice the write cycle times. This means you need to read the core memory specs carefully. Be sure that you see the both read and write cycle times. If you can only find one it will most likely be the write cycle time.

23 years, 3 months

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Intel 8751

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> > >Stan Barr wrote: >> While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >> couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >> failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >> look? >IIRC, the 8751 is an EPROM (windowed package) version of the 8051 MCU. The >thing about the 8051 (and the 8052) is that it can also be used as a CPU - >add a 74LS573 (or 74LS373) latch and a bit of decoding and you can disable >the internal program memory and use external memory instead. This is the EA pin. It controls where the program memory is. The 8031 ( 8032 ) is the version that is sold to be used this way. As far as I know, the 8031's are just units that the mask part failed or overruns of mask 8051 parts. Early on, 8031's, with EPROMs were more common in keyboards and newer keyboards use just 8051's. Dwight I use >8051-derivatives a fair bit - Atmel's AT89S8252 is a particularly nice >chip - basically an 8052 with 8k of internal FLASH memory and an SPI >programming interface. > >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > >

23 years, 3 months

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Apple 1 schematics

by cb＠mythtech.net

In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist anywhere? I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there is no shot in ever getting them. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

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Intel 8751

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Stan Barr" <stanb(a)dial.pipex.com> > >Hi, > >To get back to computers for a change... > >While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >look? > > >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com > >The future was never like this! > > > Hi Stan These are the EPROM version of the 8051's. These can be programmed and used just like the 8031's in keyboards or used in place of a mask ROM 8051, when programmed. I don't recall if Intel published the programming specs for these but there are a lot of programmers that will program these ( often with special adapters :( ). I think Data I/O's don't need anything special other than the 40 pin socket. Look for 8051 family manuals. I think Intel stopped publishing programming specs when they had different flavors of EPROMs with similar names. They wanted to keep the programmer manufactures up to date without worrying about hobbiest blowing their parts up. Dwight

23 years, 3 months

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PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed

by tim.myers＠sunplan.com

Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. Tim.

23 years, 3 months

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Intel 8751

by glenslick＠hotmail.com

Is it a 40-pin DIP package? OTP/EPROM version of an 8051. http://developer.intel.com/design/mcs51/cf_51.htm >From: Stan Barr <stanb(a)dial.pipex.com> >While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >look? _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

23 years, 3 months

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Intellectual 'PROPERTY'

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Stan Barr <stanb(a)dial.pipex.com> wrote: > Of course they're not *really* indigenous, having walked over from > Eastern Asia :-) No, they did not walk over from Eastern Asia. They are descendants of Ka-in who was transported to this continent by helicopter (from E.DIN aka SHU.MER aka Iraq) when the Anunnaki sentenced him to exile for killing Abael. MS P.S. Yes, Ka-in, not Cain. Abael, not Abel. E.DIN, not Eden. SHU.MER, not Sumer. And yes, the Anunnaki ("Those Who from Heaven to Earth Came" in ancient Shumerian), not God. The Bible and the modern "scholars" got it all wrong.

23 years, 3 months

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Intellectual "PROPERTY"

by lgwalker＠mts.net

Reading classiccmp today I wanted to puke. I'm sorry, I'm with Stallman, fuck the corporate spin-doctors. In the real world ideas are free and even Bob Dylan was noted for his free use of others material. "Intellectual PROPERTY" ? That's a lawyer's and corporate term. Meaning the extension of material possession law to ideas cause lord knows they've got property rights down to a science. The pharmaceutical companies almost patented the human genone but were prevented by a few alert clinicists. Monsanto is busy trying to tie up our very grain foodstuff, our health is held ransom to the corporations. And some little sucks that hope they can emulate Bill Gates are peddling this game ? Sony, MCA, and the music conglomerates got their "copyrights" by stealing the songs from the musicians and composers for the most part. There's a long history of poor jazz and blues musicians behind all those songs. And even McCartney and Jagger will admit that they copied American blues musicians in what they did. These sterling words that the creator of some idea should benefit from his creation are simply bullshit to provide cover for the suits who do benefit. For the most part they paid a (barely) living wage to the artists who did actually do the creative part, whether songster, cartoonist, writer, or coder. Even Edison and his company ripped off Tesla. Damn, what has the impersonality of computers wrought ? A generation of egocentric, alienated, individualists with some sort of subjective morality ? It's OK to do a bad thing if it furthers my objectives ? A world I never made ! GNU forever ! Alt 2600 is looking good if I can just get by the spelling, the ingenuity, and "z" for "s". Get a new suit and eat more. You'll still die eventually. Lawrence Live life like you're never_gonna-die Love like you've never been hurt Dance and sing like no-one is watcing or listening And rejoice in our creation. lgwalker(a)mts.net bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com

23 years, 3 months

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Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips

by mstein＠crestline.ca

----------------------Original Message------------------------ One question. Assuming the signal names are conventional, that's the same pinout as the '154 decoder. And yet my (ancient, hardbacked) TI TTL book says that while the 74154 is a logical replacement, it's not a direct replacement (this implies to me a different pinout). One of the pinouts I received had the A inputs in the oposite order (20 = A0 .. 23 = A3). Can somebody please check which is correct. -tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, you'll probably get another dozen replies from the other helpful folks here, but the pinouts and logic tables are identical and 23=a0, 20=a3. I thought the same when I looked at the 9311, that it sure looked like a 74154 which was used everywhere, and that there must be a pinout or big characteristic difference to make it worth FSC's while (since they also made the '154, and TI, NSC and Motorola, who also made the 9311). But the only difference I can see is that the max propagation delay is less on the 9311; maybe someone else will see something else. mike

23 years, 3 months

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(no subject) Enough already

by loedman1＠juno.com

>A resounding FUCK YOU ya Texas hick. The message is decidedly ON-TOPIC as >it refers to my main point, which is that old software will remain >copyrighted for years to come, without any logic. >You need to keep deleting and moving on, as I'm sure many others have >done. Next time you have a problem then take it private and don't litter >the list with your drivel. >Or better yet, just filter my messages out, OK? >Ya dick. >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Might I suggest that you go and start your own list where you can belittle and insult your own members and leave the uninformed political statements and personal attacks off of this one. Rich Stephenson

23 years, 3 months

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Core memory speeds

by bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca

Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, what was the access and cycle time of core memory before it vanished and just when did it do that? Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks to be the transition stage from the the old to the new. Ben

23 years, 3 months

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Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk)

by 3sdiarftt02＠sneakemail.com

Thanks for the help with the power supply for the Amstrad. I've picked up a nice unit that, while heavy, appears to be made for the computer it's so perfectly matched. Was that plug, that polarity, that voltage and that current a fairly common choice for a while? Anyway, I made a boot disk using Win98SE and the Amstrad really doesn't like it (can't blame it) -- crashes on boot. Can anyone supply an image of a boot disk known to work on the Amstrad? krishaven *aT* spamcop *dOt* net. TIA. BTW: It complains about setting the time and a dead battery before looking for a system disk. Does anyone know if its expecting me to buy 10 C cell batteries or if it's referring to an internal battery of some kind? Chris J. -------------------------------------- Protect yourself from spam, use http://sneakemail.com

23 years, 3 months

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PDP-12 on eBay

by classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com

All I have to say is WOW! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm precluded >from bidding because my wife would kill me. Erik

23 years, 3 months

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Any Cromemco USERS?

by mhstein＠canada.com

Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does anyone at least have one in running condition? mike

23 years, 3 months

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VMS command question and help, off-topic

by freddy＠kotelna.sk

Hello VMS folks, just a very simple question, what does a command like this do: BACKUP MULTIA_V72.BCK/SAVE DVA0:/IMAGE/VERIFY (it's alpha vms, so not sure whether floppy is named DVA0: on VAXen, too). I know basicaly what this does, my question is whether the .BCK file has some special format or whether UNIX command like this: $ cat MULTIA_V72.BCK > /dev/diskette0 or $ dd if=MULTIA_V72.BCK of=/dev/diskette0 is equivalent. If it's some special format, were it possible that you issue this command for me on some VMS and grab the diskette raw file and make it available for me? the image is available at http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck (1419264 bytes). Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy(a)kotol.kotelna.sk'

23 years, 3 months

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Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$)

by vcf＠siconic.com

----- Message Text ----- I have an outstanding bounty. I am seeking out manuals for the Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 computer imaging cameras circa late-80s/early-90s. If you have these manuals and want to earn a little extra cash, please contact me directly at <sellam(a)vintage.org>. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 3 months

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Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

I have several 3100's with diskette drive (both MFM and SCSI). --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:52 PM > To: vance(a)neurotica.com > Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vance(a)neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > > Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20 > > To: Witchy > > Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an > > option for the > > > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for > > 20-odd quid I > > > wouldn't complain :) > > > > That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between > TK50Z's and DLT > > TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. > > Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > >

23 years, 3 months

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SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 19, 11:19, David Holland wrote: > Acutally, what I'd like to do is plug my 20$ Logitech Optical mouse (no > plate) into it, but somehow or another, I don't expect to see USB on a > Crimson anytime soon. You might be able to get a non-optical mouse from an Indigo or something of that vintage and change the plug, or make an adaptor. AFAIK, the Sun optical mice were made by Mouse Systems, and so were the older SGI mice. The 4DFAQ (aka "This Old SGI") has some instructions to convert a Sun mouse for an SGI. I'm not sure what effect the modification has; it could be baud rate. The Sun mice are 1200 baud, while SGI's were 4800 baud, and of course Sun use 0V/+5V while SGI used +/- 5V (roughly, it's more-or-less RS423 levels). There are also different protocols; SGIs use 5 bytes, and I think Mouse Systems standard mice used 3. Dunno about Suns. Another thing you might look out for is an older Sun non-optical mouse. I used to hate the optical ones (because of the limitations of the pad) and was delighted to find that Sun made an alternative, around the time of the early Ultras and later Sparcstations. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor

by WiIdcats＠aol.com

did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny

23 years, 3 months

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Got the second batch of -11 equipment

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 was a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. Pictures: http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in Austin, Texas.. Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and the MINC-11 and the racks. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net austin, texas

23 years, 3 months

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VXT X terminal question [VR219 blues]

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

I wrote: > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > model. Anyone have a clue? Hmm. OK... I used the monitor (VR320) that was connected to my VXT2000, and that seems to be a GPX tube. I dragged a (heavy !) VR219-D3 monitor out of storage, and connected that. No go, either, _and_ it wont sync either. Looks like that one is also GPX- its the old model, with the "sync rate" select switch at the rear. So, I'll have to find a VR219-DA or somesuch, first.. --fred

23 years, 3 months

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"Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying

by cb＠mythtech.net

>It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying >of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. > >Does anybody have an earlier referrent? When was that letter? I remember using the term back when I traded software with friends on the Apple II. So probably early 80's. I'm not sure where I heard it first, but I suspect from one of the people I used to trade with (who probably got it from a BBS or elsewhere). I seem to even recall a duplication program that I used to use that was quite good at getting around copy protection, was called something like "The Pirates Friend". I'd have to go thru old software floppies to locate it and confirm the name, but I do think it used pirate in the name. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

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Manuals becoming available via web (M4, Pick) and general pick info

by jwest＠imail.kwcorp.com

I had posted a while back about the manuals for M4 and Pick that I had just come across in the basement. Bruce Ray has agreed to scan them and make them available to people. Now that I'm packing them up to be sent to him, thought I'd post a more clear list as to what I have... M4 Data 1/2 tape drive diagnostics quick reference M4 Data 1/2 tape drive optional SCSI controller jumper/switch reference M4 Data 1/2 tape drive 9900 series field service manual Microdata Reality Assembly Language Reference Manual: This is the original definitive work, written by Dick and Chandru. Often called "The Rainbow Book" because of the color scheme on the front. A LOT of the nuances of the Pick Assembly environment were never really documented in later manuals from other vendors. Many of these nuances were absolutely essential to even write a simple program. The other vendors all stole the basic text of this book and reworked it. However, most of them left out many things that are critical, and most of those things ARE in this manual. I recall that most Pick Assembler programmers kept two books on their shelf. The assembly manual for whatever vendor they were using, AND this one. The progression of machines microdata put out was the Reality, Reality Royale, Sequel, Series 18, and Spirit (all that I recall). All of this hardware was of their own design (but I think they bought the M1600 cpu for reality from elsewhere). Ultimate Computer Systems Pick Assembler Manual: Ultimate was one of the few vendors who sold both firmware implementations and software implementations of Pick (referring to the translation between missionary and native instruction sets), so their assembler manual is quite interesting as it points out of lot of the differences between the two types of implementation. They called their pick operating system "Ultimate O/S". Their manual is probably the most complete for later implementations, because they still listed out process control block formats and such. The original rainbow book from micro data did this, but in later generations those formats changed very much - so this book's pcb format lists were about the only documentation of later generation (from other vendors too) internal structures. Ultimate released pick on "standard" hardware rather than building their own. I know I sold many systems based on PDP-11/03's, and Honeywell DPS-6's. I think I recall them releasing systems on Honeywell Bull too, a rebadged RS/6000 if memory serves. Oh yeah, and I remember doing the very first install of Ultimates version of Pick/370... Pick running on an IBM 4341, using two Series 1's as front end processors for terminal I/O... very cute system. It ran on top of VM, so you could literally have multiple Pick systems on the one machine. Ultimate Computer Systems Assembly Programming Notes: This is a 22 page handout... Ultimate gave it out as a "quick start" thing for pick programmers who were familiar with other vendors implementations but not ultimates. It also clarified a few things that weren't particularly clear in the original rainbow book. Alpha Microsystems Pick Open Architecture v1.3 Assembler Manual: Alpha Microsystems had a lot of different computer systems. I seem to recall they were more popular originally for an OS called AMOS, which was definitely not pick. I think they built their own computers originally, but I know most of the pick systems they came out with were 386/486 type machines, and they were not propietary, just off the shelf PC's. Well, except for the magical firmware board that kept you from running their pick version on just any old PC. They sold Pick R83, and Pick Open Architecture too. I can't recall what the big deal was about Open Architecture. I seem to recall it had something to do with being able to run in true protected mode with regards to the x86 chip. Their assembler manual, while being a bit skimpy, did happen to have a few nice tidbits of info in it that weren't obvious in other vendors manuals. That's the thing about Pick assembler - reading one manual you feel like something is left out, but by reading all the manuals available from all the different vendors, most of it came together. The rest was trial and error and digging through the OS source code (if you had it). General Automation 3.8 Assembly Changes: This is a set of notes, detailing for assembly programmers what they had to change in their software to make stuff written for prior than 3.8 release to run on 3.8 release. It has some particularly good info in it that is specific to GA implementations. General Automation 3.8 Assembler Manual: This is, somewhat unfortunately, a work in progress. Most of the Pick vendors/licensees restricted the use of the assembler to internal use only. There were two reasons for this - one, they considered even knowing the assembler a trade secret. Each vendor came out with their own modifications that they thought made their version of pick "better" than others, and they didn't want people knowing anything more than necessary about how they did it. The other reason was, the pick assembler was a totally unprotected programming environment. A small bug in your program would frequently destroy the entire system - it was a very "fragile" environment. Your code had to be very well behaved, and it had to follow strict guidelines for interfacing with other routines and the O/S itself. Of course, those guidelines weren't really documented anywhere at all, not even in the rainbow book. Nowhere did you generally find out that you couldn't use R12 when calling a particular system subroutine cause it used the contents as scratch, there was no memory or process protection, etc. This manual is somewhat odd in that GA finally "saw the light" that it was good to let 3rd party people enhance the OS with their own add-on software, for GA's own sake. So they took the Pick on the PC assembler manual and loaded it into a word processor and started to make all the changes necessary to make a new, fully documented assembler manual for GA's version of pick. This manual was printed in the middle of that effort. As a result, parts of it are very GA specific, but most of it is just a verbatim copy of the Pick on the PC manual (which I have somewhere, but haven't come across it yet). So, it's interesting as a "work in progress". GA's pick line was all software implementations, built around the MC68000. I remember models 1500, 2500, 3500, 5500, 7820, 8830, 2820, 3820, 1700, 1750. I'm sure I'm missing some. This was the vendor I had the most contact with, I still have a 1750 and a 2820 in my basement I need to get up and running. OMTI controller in them both :) I SEEM to recall a pertec to scsi interface in one, not sure. There is one manual I used to have but no longer do, so I'll throw up a hail-mary and see if anyone has it - I curse the day I lost it. It was the General Automation Firmware Executive manual, and documented the roms on the mainboard. It wasn't specific to pick, you could load programs in motorola S-record format from tape, etc. Any one have this perchance? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

23 years, 3 months

2
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(no subject)

by vcf＠siconic.com

So the whores that are beholden to corporate interest...er, I mean the United States Congress has decided that copyrights in the US should be extended another 20 years beyond the limits they were set at, and those mental miscreants that put an ex-Coke junkie in the White House...er, I mean the US Supreme Court has upheld these extensions, saying it is Congress' duty to determine copyright lengths. So this means that, for instance, the software for Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari 800, and TRS-80 (to name but a few platforms) will not be public domain until something like 2075, when computers as we know them today will not even exist. This makes so much sense that I just had an aneurysm. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 3 months

23
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DOS 1.0

by bones＠northrock.bm

I do indeed remember those manuals - those sturdy binders which let you know these systems meant business. There were never enough of the binders available in the IBM PC dealership I worked in. And lest we forget: the infamous "This page intentionally left blank" page. What's up with that?? I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors for programmers & such. Speaking of infantile and utterly bizarre, does anyone remember that abysmal IBM attempt at a word processor, the name of which escapes me at the moment. I think it was vaguely based on their mainframe product, typical of IBM at the time. It's command set was last seen wandering about in their "e" editor in PC DOS 6.xx. It's an amazingly powerful editor in a lot of ways, loads of options and features if you can figure them out. But I'll be danged if I can get the thing to insert a new line... Cheers, Dennis

23 years, 3 months

11
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Update: BBC Acorn

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 19, 11:12, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc > > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to > > format to use for the images? > > I expect you know far more about this than I do! "Pete's own undocumented image > format" is probably not a good idea :-) No, probably not :-) The trick with Acorn files is preserving the load and execute addresses. A spark archive will do that, but as far as I know, there's no spark dearchiver for a Beeb. It would be easy on an Archimedes or a RISC PC, but not everyone will have one of those -- and even if they did, they might not have a way to attach a 5.25" drive to it. I'm open to suggestions... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

1
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ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog?

by Pietje-Puk＠gmx.net

>Message: 28 >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:13:38 -0600 >From: Jeffrey Sharp <jss(a)subatomix.com> >To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? >Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org > > >> You can't attach eMails to the list can you? > >Yes. If a message is accepted for deliver, it is delivered with only the >standard Mailman header modifications. No other filtering takes place. Of >course, we could do this now by piping messages through a filter before they >hit the Mailman posting script. Easy. > I am reading the list in digest-format. HTML and attachments are anoying in that list-format, therefore I would very much apreaciate a filter for HTML-parts of multi-part mails and attachments to be applied to a message before it is added to the digest. >What if ClassicCmp were a blog? If I had to choose between Web-access and mail-access, I would take the mail variant, as it is now. I like it. Thank you for providing the list! Frank Arnold

23 years, 3 months

2
1
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Still more adventures in PDP-8/L repair

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

I gave up (for the moment) trying to find the problem with the memory on my 8/L. It never returns anything but all-0's to the MB, but all the control pulses and timing are correct. To make matters worse, while scoping the output of the bit 5 sense amp I discovered it would change every time when I changed bit 0 of the switch register and hit DEP! Meanwhile I decided to go after another problem (when you hit START at 0000 it runs up to 0100 and "hangs" with the BREAK and RUN lights on.) If it's executing 0000's (AND instructions) it should just keep running. The only way to wake it back up is to flip the SING STEP switch (which is NOT how it's supposed to work; LOAD, EXAM, etc. should also clear the RUN flip flop). And nothing was requesting a data break, either! So after some scoping and extender card work, I found the backplane wire from the BRK SYNC flip flop was broken in two. This made for a continuous break request. I fixed it, now it starts and stops like it's supposed to,... And then I looked closely at the backplane and saw three more broken wires! All of them are crossing the gap between the AB row of sockets and the CD row. Guess 33 years of flexing and vibration did them in. They are buried too deep to be mouse bites (besides, the nest was in the back on the module side). Unfortunately I ran out of wirewrap wire and the wife rang the dinner bell. We'll see what ELSE is screwed up next week! -Charles

23 years, 3 months

1
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(OT) firmware, manual, schematics, etc re copyright comments

by sanepsycho＠globaldialog.com

First thing a discussion copyright probably does belong on this list since people are discussing making copies of manuals, scematics, eproms, paper tapes, etc to preserve and keep old systems running and all these fall under copyright and reproducing them is a infringe of copyright without the author's consent even if it is done for non-commercial purposes under current US law. ... now my rant ... Companies generally are not interested in maintaining their old copyrights and preserving them, in the vast majority of cases old works are is only maintained by dedicated people like hobbyists, scholars or librarians. This is why "hard copyrights" like we have with the DMCA with encryption and digital restrictions entering firmware and severe criminal or civil penalties for *any* violation, without the character of the infringement even being considered. This is very wrong. Before 1973 the owners of a copyright had to actively acquire it by first claiming copyright on the work and second by registering their copyright to keep it active after the initial 28 years. Before the "No Electronic Theft Act" in 1996(7?) it was not considered infringement to reproduce works as long as the work was not being actively maintained i.e. publicly available and the reproduction was not done for profit. So if I had a copy of a manual or schematic for an old piece of equipment I was free to make a copy and give it to you as long as I did not profit directly from the act. There is no logical reason that many technically infringing uses of abandoned copyrights should be perfectly legal as long as it is not for profit. If your argument to refute this is that the author has a right control of the work, I would say that this right is not absolute since it is legal for me to make a dub of a CD for my car, to sing happy birthday (still copyrighted) at a birthday party in my home, and to record TV off the air without having to pay royalties to anyone. I see it as once an author makes a works publicly available, additional non-commercial uses should fall into fair use if the author does not continue making the work available to the public to prevent useful works >from disappearing. My point is that anybody trying to maintain/restore an old piece of equipment is almost certainly violating copyrights if they have had to rely on information reproduced by anybody other than the copyright holder. Thus under US law, as it stands, you are as guilty as anybody who has use NAPSTER, KAZA, etc to download music, and if you want to continue your hobby you should write your representative to get the laws changed to put some reasonable exclusions to infringement. ::sigh:: OK, I have that off my chest for now. Regards, Paul

23 years, 3 months

1
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Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips

by mhstein＠canada.com

----------------Original Message------------------ From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:31:33 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org I'm fixing some old HP computer hardware (a 9830 computer and its 9866 thermal printer), and I've come up against a few ICs I don't have pinouts for :-(. If anyone has them, could they fill in the tables below : Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) 1 : O/ 2 : 1/ 3 : 2/ 4 : 3/ 5 : 4/ 6 : 5/ 7 : 6/ 8 : 7/ 9 : 8/ 10 : 9/ 11 :10/ 12 : Gnd 13 : 11/ 14 : 12/ 15 : 13/ 16 : 14/ 17 : 15/ 18 : E0/ 19 : E1/ 20 : A3 21 : A2 22 : A1 23 : A0 24 : Vcc Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) 1 : ENABLE/ 2 : SET 0/ 3 : D0 4 : D1 5 : SET 2/ 6 : D2 7 : D3 8 : Gnd 9 : MASTER RESET/ 10 : Q3 11 : SET 3/ 12 : Q2 13 : Q1 14 : SET 1/ 15 : Q0 16 : Vcc Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) 1 : Q6 2 : Q7 3 : Q8 4 : Q9 5 : Q10 6 : Clk/ 1 7 : Clk 2 8 : Gnd 9 : Clr/ 10 : Serial In 11 : Q1 12 : Q2 13 : Q3 14 : Q4 15 : Q5 16 : Vcc Note: The unused Clock performs the INHIBIT function. --------------------------------------------- Thanks in advance for any help -tony --------------------------------------------- You are MOST welcome; delighted to have an opportunity to repay you for the many times you've helped us. Let me know if you need detailed tech data; I have the Fairchild Data and Application Books and the Signetics Data Book. I even have a fair bit of 9300 ICs, but alas, no 9311s and only the regular power 9314. Probably no 8273s but I can have a look. Good luck & thanks again for all YOUR help! mike

23 years, 3 months

2
1
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Apple 1 schematics

by cb＠mythtech.net

>A: Yes. >B: Google is your friend. Oh look at that... tons of hits. Gee, I figured it might be the kind of thing that Apple would have protected... maybe it was the thread on copyrights just soured me into forgetting that not everything in this world is locked away in a vault. >It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have >been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit >MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. Bummer! Maybe Tony will chime in with a list of readily available, drop it alternatives... or the plans to make replacements using common household cleaning products :-) >Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB >yourself.) I really hadn't thought that far in advance.... I was honestly under the wrong impression that the Apple 1 plans would be hard to come by. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

2
2
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VME CPU's: Documentation

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I'm wondering if anyone has documentation on my 68010-based MVME-110-1 CPU boards. Google doesn't help much. Is there a standard debugger that (should) be in its ROMs? Does anyone have an image available? I think that these boards might have a custom ROM image on them, but I'm not sure. Thanks for any help, Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu

23 years, 3 months

1
1
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Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful?

by acme＠ao.net

From: Jim Arnott <jrasite(a)eoni.com> Date: 01/18/2003 9:11 PM > From an admitedly small sample. The local schools grab every obsolete > Mac I offer them. Everything from SEs to early nubus PPCs. The > instructors love them. They also say, "Windows don't do music > composition." What Windows programs score from MIDI? Check Digital Orchestrator Pro, downloadable from www.voyetra.com for $69.95. Low cost, gigantic number of features, and the interface is much simpler to use than Cakewalk. Later -- Glen 0/0 > > Jim > > J.C.Wren wrote: > > Say WHAT? There are dozens of music programs for the PC, and some are good > > enough for studio production work (like Cakewalk and Pro Tools). Where'd > > you ever get that idea? > > >

23 years, 3 months

1
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APOLOGY: Re: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying

by cb＠mythtech.net

>Interestingly, the "Bill Gates Open Letter to Hobbyists", that is often >cited as being the origin of the word "piracy" being applied to software, >turns out to NOT use the word "piracy". It always helps to check >citations before relying on them. Someday, I'll learn to do so. I just read the letter... first time I ever have. I found two things that make me go hummmm: 1: MS Software is probably one of the highest pirated groups of software out there (no figures to back this up, its a wild assumption based on the fact that I know lots and lots of people that have various versions of Windows and/or MS Office, and haven't paid for all the copies they are running. Compounded by the vast market share, it seems that there is a good chance they rank at or near the #1 spot). Yet despite this, Mr. Gates seems to have done pretty well for himself. Actually, I have often wondered, if MS Software didn't get pirated, and every copy that every company and person ran was a fully paid for copy, would MS have the market share they have today. So it seems to me at least that MS has had a piracy problem from the get go... and it didn't really hurt them in the least. 2: His parting line in the letter: "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software ". I just have to laugh when I read that. Well, he got the deluge part right. :-) (Disclaimer: Yes, that is a clear MS bash statement, but it is tongue in cheek... yes, I personally don't care for MS software over many of the alternatives... but in the long run, most of their stuff really isn't THAT bad... its just fun to say it is). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

3
2
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Mac SE/30 accessories availability?

by cb＠mythtech.net

>Oh, and FYI, no >matter what Apple says, if you can track down 8 4meg 32 pin simms >(remember those?) your se30 will happily address 32 megs of RAM. Apple never denied that the SE/30 would address 32 meg of RAM. Its part of the spec. What they denied was that it can address 128 megs of RAM (8 16meg 30 pin chips). That has been reported by many to work just fine. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

10
15
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OOPS!!

by jwest＠imail.kwcorp.com

Sorry folks, that was meant to be private *sigh* --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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HP 2100 cpu plea

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Ok folks, I'm officially desperate. I can't figure out what is wrong with the 2100 IOP cpu memory section on my 2000/Access system. So, just thought I'd post this to the list....forgive my begging, it isn't pretty *Grin* Anyone have a working HP 2100 cpu available? I will pay real $$$ at this point, or trade probably just about anything I have for one. If anyone has one they will sell, or trade for, or give away to a place (me) that will actually use it and not throw it on a shelf, I would like to know. I'd also welcome any leads as to where one might be stored, etc. Or, as an alternative, if anyone has a magical device that will instantly transfer all of Tony Duell's repair knowledge and ability to my brain, that might work ;) FYI - I need either a 2100A or 2100S cpu. Don't need or want any 21MX or 1000 type cpus. Thanks! --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

23 years, 3 months

10
20
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PET 2001 oddity

by mhstein＠canada.com

Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. I sometimes toy with the idea of building a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the discussion, but read on and saw that you're in business. If you can't find any locally, I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty Canada. And they are used in pairs because they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, is dead as well; this discussion just might motivate me to have a look at it. Good luck! mike

23 years, 3 months

2
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Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful?

by kendonchatz＠yahoo.com

I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school and helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and rot. Ken Donchatz kendonchatz(a)yahoo.com Columbus, Ohio --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

23 years, 3 months

8
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SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 18, 13:07, David Holland wrote: > On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? I think Brian may have meant Onyx2, which is basically an Origin2000 with a shedload (or at least half a rack's worth) of graphics engine. Crimsons and Power Series are certainly on-topic here. > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) Why can't you clean it, and replace the felt? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

2
1
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AM100 Emulator

by kirk＠access.pptnet.com

Mike, Thank you! This is incredible. I can't believe you wrote an AM100 emulator, and not only that, HOW FAST you've done it. It works great, too! This is just fabulous. I cannot believe my eyes. I can't wait for the 1.0 release! Is this a pure hobby for you? I am a 16 year coder, and i gotta say, i am 100% humbled by your work. This is just amazing. I am a huge AM fan and OASYS (old theos) for Z80 fan. I have Theos, but i sold my old am100 w/ 2 cdc hawks years ago (and believe me - i am pissed beyond reproach that i did that!!! ) Nice work, mike! Kirk Barrett PPT <mailto:kirk@pptnet.c>

23 years, 3 months

2
1
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OT: Crazy C Problem

by jss＠subatomix.com

I'm testing the code I've written to spamproof the ClassicCmp web site and archives. I call the system SpamCamo. The file filter works great and produces links as it should. The CGI program is not behaving and is giving me some *very* wierd behavior. I'm stumped. First, if I compile with this: $ cc -o spamcamo.cgi cgi.c spamcamo.cgi.c -lcipher I get a "Bus error (core dumped)" exception from the first statement in my program, which is printf("DEBUG: 0\n"). I have used gdb to verify this, and it tells me that SIGBUS is occuring inside isatty() in libc. Now, if I compile like this, switching the order of the source files but making NO changes to the source files themselves: $ cc -o spamcamo.cgi spamcamo.cgi.c cgi.c -lcipher The program proceeds to the first call of strdup(), which returns NULL and sets errno to EINVAL. strdup() is definitely receiving a valid string. Furthermore, malloc(1) (as in "allocate one byte") in the same place also fails with EINVAL. The machine is not low on memory. Even furthermore, the code that is failing in this case (in cgi.c) works correctly when compiled against a test program (proof: http://www.subatomix.com/test_cgi.cgi?a=b) instead of spamcamo.cgi.c. This is what the program does (i.e. not much) before calling strdup(): printf() function call function call getenv() return strcmp() funcion call getenv() return strdup() <--- SIGBUS occurs here I get the same results on two FreeBSD boxen. One is running 4.5-RELEASE and the other is running 4.6-STABLE. I'd like to think this is something I've done wrong and not a bug in libc. Any ideas? -- Jeffrey Sharp

23 years, 3 months

3
4
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VMS command question and help, off-topic

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

i do have a multia ... what needs to be done? --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 1:33 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VMS command question and help, off-topic > > > > Antonio Carlini (arcarlini(a)iee.org) wrote : > > > > > Can you zip it up so it's easier to download? > > > > didn't help very much, > http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck.gz > > (913652 bytes), along with the original > > http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck > are there. > > I didn't mean to make it smaller - I just didn't > want it to download as a text file. ZIP files > download correctly, other random stuff depends > on the server settings (IIRC). > > Anyway, I managed to get it using a download > manager and I've managed to restore it to > a floppy. I don't have a Multia so I won't > be able to test it. I can either dig out > rawread or try using dd on my Solaris > box - just let me know which you would > find easiest to deal with (and the exact dd > command you would prefer, if that matters). > > I can email the result or ftp it to you > if you have a server. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org > >

23 years, 3 months

1
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Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ...

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? It's about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its specialised music abilities. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I used to miss my ex-girlfriend, but then my aim improved. -----------------

23 years, 3 months

4
4
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Update: BBC Acorn

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Pete, > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to > format to use for the images? I expect you know far more about this than I do! "Pete's own undocumented image format" is probably not a good idea :-) Other than that anything that has some supporting documentation available would seem sensible - it'll always be possible to convert between formats then. I get lost trying to remember all the issues regarding writing to discs in different machines (wish there was a website that collected all that information together, for various platforms) - I can't for the life of me remember if it's possible to write to beeb discs with a PC, which would probably be my preferred option. My BBC Master can emulate an XT so maybe there's something on that side that can take a PC format 5.25 disc and write out to a beeb disc. I have no idea... I'm more concerned about the disc set being archived somewhere than delving in and playing around with my ARM unit now though - same goes for other systems. I've already got machines that are non-runners at present because the software has gone and is unobtainable :-( > so 50 or 100 seem likely > numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. hmm, mine was pretty late then if they did only make 50. Mine came from Kent uni; I have no idea what it was doing there, but the same place sourced quite a few bits of beeb equipment. Maybe they did some official product testing or something. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

23 years, 3 months

1
0
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Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives

by whdawson＠localisps.net

Found in the Prelinger Archive: On Guard! The Story of SAGE Innovations in computer technology as weapons in the Cold War. ca 1956 IBM Watch stream or download movie as DIVX (38M), MPEG2 (280M), VCD (123M) http://webdev.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collect ionid=06855 Also, 230 Computer Chronicles Episodes are available for viewing or downloading: http://www.archive.org/movies/computerchronicles.php Gary Kildall Special : http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=computerchron icles&collectionid=1814&from=BA Bill

23 years, 3 months

7
8
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Archived digests?

by mhstein＠canada.com

Thanks muchly, Jeffrey! The problem was that the archive list on the main page only goes up to Nov. 2001, but these URLs did the trick. m -----------------Original Message----------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:08:32 -0600 From: Jeffrey Sharp <jss(a)subatomix.com> On Thursday, January 16, 2003, M H Stein wrote: > with the previous system I could retrieve the missed messages, but am > apparently too dense to figure out how with the present system. Help? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/ -- Jeffrey Sharp

23 years, 3 months

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PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed

by mhstein＠canada.com

---------------------Original Message------------------------- From: "Tim Myers" <tim.myers(a)sunplan.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. Tim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, although I've got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on these. But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, there are probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? Good luck, mike

23 years, 3 months

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INRE: XT Motherboard

by A.Gabston-Howell＠EnigmaOne.com

I *can't* believe I'm actually doing this.....I'm in a situation wherein I need the MB, if you still have it. How's it outfitted? uP and memory, is what I'm thinking of; and does it have the standard 8-expansion slot count? If you still have it, please do let me know, and I'll get back with you quickly. Unfortunately, time is pushing me in this situation. Also, if you *happen* to have a CGA video adapter with at least RGB DB-9 output, composite out (RCA) would be cool, but not necessary. I'd like to get ahold of it at the same time. -- Allan Gabston-Howell "Be wary of any school of thought whose very name is an oxymoron. They're telling you up front that they intend to travel on square wheels."

23 years, 3 months

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MCA Fast Ethernet Cards

by vance＠neurotica.com

Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. Peace... Sridhar

23 years, 3 months

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T&B Ansley IDC connectors

by mhstein＠canada.com

---------------Original Message--------------- Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber(a)ix.netcom.com> Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. Thanks, Jeff ------------------------------------------------------- Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are you looking for? mike

23 years, 3 months

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Ampro cards

by mhstein＠canada.com

------------------Original Message------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:59:52 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org From: Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> Subject: Ampro cards Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org I recently picked up two Ampro computer cards. I think they're PC/104 cards but I'm not positive. Your A60707 is the CoreModule XT Plus (CPU card). The other board is the MiniModule FSS, which is Floppy/SCSI/Serial controller. Does anyone have manuals for them? Ampro has a website but there's nothing on there about these cards and Ampro tech support hasn't been any help beyond id'ing the cards. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------- Haven't got that $1000 for ya, Joe, but I do have a pile of Ampro docs somewhere & maybe the name of a contact, and yes, they are almost definitely PC104. Don't hold your breath, & I probably haven't got anything on those particular boards, but I'll keep my eyes open. mike

23 years, 3 months

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Musings on BabyVAX video

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Hi again folks, Thinking about the VS3100/VT1300/VXT matters brought up another question that has nagged me for a while. How much compatibility is there between KA410 (VS2000), KA42 (VS3100 M30/38/40/48), and KA43 (VS3100 M76) as far as video boards go? I mean GPX and SPX. (Were there others?) I know that the 4-plane and 8-plane GPX boards were originally designed for VS2K, and I'm pretty sure that the VS3100 ones are the same as the VS2000 ones, which implies that the video option connector on KA42 has to be identical to the one on KA410. But now comes SPX. I have seen many VS3100 M76 SPX machines, and SPX appears to have been pretty standard on these machines. But I have questions. Does the SPX board also work on earlier VS3100s and on VS2000? I seem to recall from somewhere that the answer is yes for VS3100 and no for VS2000. Could someone confirm? And how about the other way around? Can M76 use GPX? No video option at all? (I seem to recall that base mono video was removed on KA43.) This makes me wonder about the nature of interface between the system board and the video option. Since it originates from VS2K, common sense says that it has to be 16-bit EDAL, since that's all VS2K had. But then there is the DTJ article about the design of VS4000 M90 where they've used a version of SPX that attaches directly to 32-bit CDAL. Furthermore, they just lifted their SPX design from the VXT2000 where it also attached directly to CDAL. Hmm. Did the original SPX used in all these VS3100 M76s also attach to CDAL? Then how can the video option connector, which at least mechanically hasn't changed since KA410, be sometimes EDAL and at other times CDAL? Were there a lot of unused pins on the original KA410 connector that were made into upper 16 bits which are used sometimes but not at other times? But then if turning CDAL into EDAL were only a matter of using only lower 16 bits, why did they design a much more complex chip (SEAC) for this very purpose in VS4000 M90 (see the DTJ article)? Just a hardware-minded hacker being curious. MS

23 years, 3 months

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Too many EPROMs update

by aw288＠osfn.org

Thanks for those that checked in - I will see what I can make of the orders. For those wanting 27C1024s - no special price - .25 each (two bits per lots of bits), 6 for a buck. For those wanting 2708s - $1 each. For those wanting 1702s - $2 each. Sorry, no 2704s. William Donzelli aw288(a)osfn.org

23 years, 3 months

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Bunch of XT parts available

by acme＠ao.net

From: No Junk Mail <3sdiarftt02(a)sneakemail.com> Date: 01/17/2003 0:10 AM > M card for my first XT. Was there ever a processor upgrade card for 8-bit ISA IIRC the SOTA 286 card was 8-bit. I had one kicking around in a junk bin at the shop but I think Joe Rigdon made off with it ;>) Joe -- is that board 8- or 16-bit? Later, Glen 0/0

23 years, 3 months

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Apple 1 schematics

by cb＠mythtech.net

>I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main problems >that I came up with are: > 1. certain parts are difficult to find > 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability > 3. re-creating the pc boards This site has what might be a dump of the ROM. I don't really know, but the name implies it. <http://www.apple2.org.za/gswv/1WSW/Apple.1.SPECS/> -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 3 months

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Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips

by djg＠drs-esg.com

Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) 1 of 16 decoder 1 : 0 2 : 1 3 : 2 4 : 3 5 : 4 6 : 5 7 : 6 8 : 7 9 : 8 10 : 9 11 : 10 12 : Gnd 13 : 11 14 : 12 15 : 13 16 : 14 17 : 15 18 : E1 19 : E2 20 : A3 21 : A2 22 : A1 23 : A0 24 : Vcc E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) Probably same as NSC http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) 1 : Q6 2 : Q7 3 : Q8 4 : Q9 5 : Q10 6 : ClK1/ 7 : CLK2 8 : Gnd 9 : Clr/ 10 : Serial In 11 : Q1 12 : Q2 13 : Q3 14 : Q4 15 : Q5 16 : Vcc Clk2 low and clk1 works clk1 high and clk2 works clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to clock the flip flops. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights.

23 years, 3 months

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Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 743 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/8b4631dc/at…

23 years, 3 months

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Results: VXT X terminal question

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Fred N. van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> wrote: > When booting the M76 with the VXT (V2.1) load image, nothing happens > after the load image has been loaded. In other words, it dies when > started. > > [...] > > So.. heh. Now, to find out what is happening with the M76... Well, it's obvious what's happening. The VXT program reads the SID register, sees the top byte equal to 0B, and doesn't know what the heck to do with it. In other words, it just doesn't support this machine. > When loading the M38... _it_works_ ! > The VXT software "detects" a VT1300 with SPX and 16MB, and happily runs. Good. This is what I expected, but just to make sure. The real VT1300 was AFAIK a KA42-A (M30, 90 ns cycle time) with GPX video, so you've just built a better VT1300 with a faster 60 ns cycle time CPU and with SPX video. Given that the VXT program runs on 3 different CPUs (VS2000 with MV II, KA42/VT1300 with CVAX, and VXT2000 with SOC), we can safely assume that your faster VT1300 won't cause any problems later, i.e., the program is very unlikely to time things with CPU cycles. MS

23 years, 3 months

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Results: VXT X terminal question

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

All, Took some fiddling with boards and a firm kick to the monitor, but... we haveth resulths. Setup: Server1: VAXserver 3100, OpenBSD/vax V3.1 Server2: VAX 4000-100, OpenSD/vax V3.1 Client1: VAXstation 3100-M38 [SPX], VR219-D3 Client2: VAXstation 3100-M76 [SPX], VR219-D3 Server2 is the boot server which runs [my version of] MOPD, and which is the load host here for the VAXlab network. It has no probs booting the terminal servers, DECnis 600, the VXT2000's and all VAXen I have. When booting the M76 with the VXT (V2.1) load image, nothing happens after the load image has been loaded. In other words, it dies when started. When loading the M38... _it_works_ ! The VXT software "detects" a VT1300 with SPX and 16MB, and happily runs. So.. heh. Now, to find out what is happening with the M76... --fred

23 years, 3 months

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PET 2001 oddity

by avickers＠solutionengineers.com

I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day - it's reorganise time, try to get *even more* stuff into exactly the same amount of space as less (but still lots of) stuff occupied. It never works, but it does give me an excellent excuse to have a play around with some of them. Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... It reports 7167 bytes free, as per spec. But if I type: 10 REM blah or 10 ?"HELLO" it hangs. If I load a program from tape, it does one of two things: a) Loads but won't run, typing LIST produces something like this: 10 2 READY. b) It loads & hangs immediately after the READY. prompt comes up. I tried to put together a FOR loop (the idea being I could use it to display chunks of memory at a time, e.g. FORI=0TO10:?I;:NEXT Instead, the machine goes into an infinte loop displaying zero on a new line each time (it's ignored the I variable, and the semicolon after the PRINT command. If I replace NEXT with NEXTI, it fails reporting NEXT without FOR. So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question is, how to find out? 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... Thanks in advance! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com

23 years, 3 months

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PET 2001 oddity

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't take > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question > is, how to find out? Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If it does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a bad socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of PET I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike any other RAM chip. > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel or a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different versions of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to handle the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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VXT X terminal question

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

I tried with both VR320 and VR19-D3, see next msg on list. This is driving me nuts. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 11:37 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > > > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't > > seem to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 > > is the SPX model. Anyone have a clue? > > What monitor are you using? These things are synch-on-green, > which not all monitors support. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org > >

23 years, 3 months

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VXT X terminal question

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

All, Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX model. Anyone have a clue? --fred

23 years, 3 months

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VXT X terminal question

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

Jochen writes: > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? --fred

23 years, 3 months

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Musings on BabyVAX video

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Antonio Carlini <arcarlini(a)iee.org> wrote: > I think the origins of the GPX go back to the QDSS Q-bus > board set as used in the VAXstation II (the "Dragon" chipset). I know. I meant that the GPX used in VS3100s originated in VS2K. > My recollection is that the same GPX board was indeed used on > the KA410 and KA42s. That was the VS40X-MA. I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > I *think* that in the KA42 systems, they converted from CDAL > to EDAL (or whatever) as necessary. "As necessary"? I thought that except for memory KA42 is 100% EDAL. At least to system software KA42 is basically a faster KA410. (Well, there are some tweaks, like the ugly hack to make LANCE address 32 MB instead of 16. On KA410 they simply got lucky that their system memory size just happened to be what LANCE can address. Then I recall that the NetBSD folks had discovered that for SCSI the DMA byte count had to be set off by one between the two or something like that. I don't remember the details, but the question can probably be settled by comparing the KA42 SCSI driver in Ultrix sources against the KA410 st driver and the KA410 TM.) So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their own independent connections to CDAL. But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual for VS3100 (any model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks like one never existed. Do you have any more info? > The KA43 was a Rigel chip > shoe-horned into a CVAX system, so they did something to > convert the Rigel bus (RDAL?) to CDAL and then left as much > of the rest of the box alone (I don't have the KA43 stuff > to hand so I may be misremembering the exact details here). Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it had, I found the P-chip and the F- chip, but not the G-chip. The G-chip (used on KA670) is a Rigel memory controller and an RDAL-to-CDAL bridge combined. (The VAX 4500 team got the NCA idea from it.) I then thought that having no real need for CDAL KA43 went directly from RDAL to EDAL, perhaps combining the RDAL-to-EDAL bridge with an RDAL memory controller. But I guess they could have also made a chip like the G but without the memory controller and then plopped the KA42 memory and I/O on CDAL. That could explain why KA670 pulls 8.0 VUPs and KA43 only 7.6. But you are right in that the gap between KA42 and KA43 is much smaller than between KA410 and KA42. > In the VS4000-90, the NCA is (IIRC) an NDAL-to-CDAL bridge. > Then the EDAL hangs off the CDAL to give access to some of the > internal options that presumably were leveraged from earlier > CVAX designs (KA42 etc.). But the graphics hang off the CDAL. > As you note, these are *not* the standard SPX etc. but designs > that presumably had already been modified from the original > SPX Yup. > to remove the EDAQL interface and use CDAL instead Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) > I'm guessing, I > cannot find the article I'm sure I've read that describes > the development of the VXT2000). http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 hardware. MS

23 years, 3 months

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VXT X terminal question

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

Michael asks: > This last point makes me think "hmm, it must be fairly generic, I > wonder what other VAXstations can it run on?" True, the software set seems to be fairly generic.. I found this out a while ago by accident; I (net-)booted that image onto the wrong machine, and dang! wasdat? it *runs* ??? :-) > Specifically I wonder whether it would run on a KA43 (VS3100 M76). Most likely not, because the -M76 is an NVAX box similar to the 4000 series machines (MV4 aka 4000/200, the 4000's, the 3100-M76 and -4X and -8X series.) It might run on the 3100-M38, although I believe that's a "non" 3100, too. I would assume that they kept the CPU support library as small as possible, meaning only the generic series of machines they "sortof" intended the VXT software set for, i.e. the 2000, 3100 and alike systems and their hardware features (as needed.) > I'm willing to bet that it'll handle the SPX video Yup, it's basically some "NanoVMS" kernel, with minimal runtime and a VMS DECwindows subset. Which means (methinks..) that it most likely wasnt stripped from its GPX and SPX(+) drivers. Dang! Now you got me curious. I have all three (2000,M38 and M76) so will set them up tonight or tomorrow and see what they do. --fred

23 years, 3 months

3
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VXT X terminal question

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Fred N. van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> wrote: > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > or cd set. Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like to use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or not. MS

23 years, 3 months

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Hobbled NVAX

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Antonio Carlini <arcarlini(a)iee.org> wrote: > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In this case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But even if the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x models, I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". AFAIK it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, not the other way around. If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it looks at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of the ROM. > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not just disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be enabled and disabled as you like? MS

23 years, 3 months

1
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Bad behavior and bad language on list . . .

by MTPro＠aol.com

> Add to that Sellam's consistent slander of Texas and > Texans, ever since George Dubbya took office.? I despise Bush, but I > *am* a native Texan, and am proud of that.? Sellam's comments to me, in > private email, are even more culturally oriented. > > ? It is not the first time on this list, and Texans have not been his > only target for cultural slurs and epithets.? As this is a decidedly > multi-national and multi-cultural forum, it's always surprised me that > the list-members in general put up with it. > Hello everyone, I don't know Doc, at least I'm not sure. Many of us have never met others in person. I have however met Sellam, and I've corresponded with him many time over the years. Sellam, you've always been very nice and professional to me online and also when we met at the First East Coast Vintage Computer Festival. But, I feel a need to say that your language and personal attacks to people on list has really gotten out of hand. Doc, you did yourself no favors the moment you also used the "F" word in response. There have of course, also been some others here exhibiting bad language, etc., in the past. For anyone who doesn't know, when someone attacks a person personally, instead of attacking their viewpoint, this is called an Ad Hominem attack - ad hom?i?nem adj. Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives. Whether you are attacking their race, place of birth, religion, sex, or yes, even choice of ISP. If everyone will excuse me a moment, my politics are simple on social behavior - I don't care what any consenting adults do in private, but keep it private. You can engage in gay or "normal" sex, do drugs, curse your head off, who cares. Keep it private and between adults only. This forum is public, and there are probably some minors who subscribe or peruse the archives later. You have a social responsibility to keep any and all antisocial, uncivil behavior off-line. All of this out-of-line behavior that has been allowed to carry on this list is out of control regularly now. I voted for and overall like President Bush. Sellam, Doc . . . oh, am I a big jerk or stupid now?! But of course, this has nothing to do with our hobby and needn't ever have been revealed here. It's immature and frankly unrealistic to think that your little "swipe" or "joke" in regard to politics is amusing to everyone. Or, even that it impresses anyone. None of us are here to listen to anyone's political agenda. Or their viewpoint on business ethics and copyright law, etc. Unless these concepts are discussed in regard to a historical, classic computer system(s) or related. Is anyone in charge here? Is there any policing of list etiquette? Even just internal by other members? Are there more of you out there like me? Is everyone happy with this stuff?! I'm very tired of it. I may not "discuss" much on here, but I read every one and I'm just as much a "member" here. Can we please have discussion on topic, and behavior that does not insult or offend anyone?! It's really not that hard, it just takes some discipline. Simply treat any other person the way you want to be treated - with respect I imagine. There, I finally did it, posted for all to see. This is ridiculous the behavior that goes on here. Civil behavior is all that we have to keep the foundation of our culture "civilized." All the other stuff becomes secondary. Regards to everyone on list, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay >

23 years, 3 months

1
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IBM 5322

by vcf＠siconic.com

I have an IBM 5322. I can't find any useful information on the web. It looks very much like a System/23 Datamaster. Is it one and the same? Next question: When I boot it up it comes up with a display as follows: 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A -- -- -- 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2A 2B 2C 2D 2E -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2F 30 31 32 33 34[35]36 37 38 39 FD -- -- 4A The hyphens underneath numbers indicate that those numbers are underlined, and the square brackets indicate that that number is inversed video. Does anyone know what this means? Last question: I press the RESET button and it clears the screen and goes into what looks to be a prompt mode. It had "PROC START" on the bottom, so I entered this as a command. Now a status line on the bottom has "OPTION 10" with the "10" blinking and I can't figure out what to do. Does anyone know what is going on? How do I boot from the floppy drive? Anyone got an OS disk? A manual? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 3 months

8
17
0 0

VXT X terminal question

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

Michael, > (Jumping on my horse again, making Ultrix run on VS3100 M76 would take a > screenful of code. I have the source if anyone wants to take a stab.) I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it to the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. And life will be great if I can find a 705A CPU for that box. --f

23 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Update: BBC Acorn

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther there's a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to format to use for the images? I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, the PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

PET 2001 oddity

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the capacity of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard PET and no spare sockets. > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be essential). I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, paintbrush (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash it after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount of static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of places like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually lead to corrosion. In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used the dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, too, and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't use a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper labels, etc. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

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