- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Anybody here work with or are big fans of Modicon programmable controllers? (or are even collectors of same?) Specifically the 984-series. Sorta on-topic as the modules I have date back to 1993 and use Intel 80186 and 80188 uP chips, but PLCs are somewhat off-topic here. I haven't heard of any PLC-specific email lists except for a recently defunct one. Please contact me off-list as I have some questions and am looking for additional info. Thanks, Chris F. NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt at netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

IBM 9348 9-track tape drive

by vcf＠siconic.com

Does anyone have the service manual for the IBM 9348 9-track tape drive? I'm trying to find out why mine is failing diagnostic test #1 (error code 6). Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 2 months

4
5
0 0

Number Nine Revolution graphics board

by fzrfast＠bellsouth.net

Hello: Any one have in the attic, garage, basement, etc an old Number Nine Revolution graphics board from about 1983-1985? Or any dos drivers for this board? Regards: Jim Cox

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Eric Smith, when are you gonna pay me the money you owe me?

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Sorry to post this on CC, but I get no response from eric at brouhaha.com --- Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote: > I meant to email you yesterday. Apparently it > arrived a long time > ago, but the staff at Mail Boxes Etc. didn't put a > slip in my box, > so it went unnoticed until I specifically asked them > to try to find > it. So the postal service is not at fault this > time. > > I'll put a check in the mail to you tonight. > > Best regards, > Eric > > ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

NEXTstep web browsers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: NEXTstep web browsers > From: "Witchy" <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:38:48 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Hi folks, > >Having got NEXTStep 3.3 and all the toys my mind naturally set about >wondering if I could compile Firefox on my slab, and having got as far as >'probably' I've decided the machine's probably not going to be fast enough >for such a modern browser. How slow is it? I Happen to run firefox on a P166 and also run it on a P100 and its ok, slow to start but then fine. >This brings to mind the question of NEXTstep browsers, and the realisation >that there's probably only one - OmniWeb, so I've downloaded 2.7b3 but >does anyone know if there are any other browsers or later versions of >OmniWeb? Shame Offbyone (OB1) isn't availab;e for other platforms very fast though very simple. Allison

21 years, 2 months

6
8
0 0

IBM 9348 9-track tape drive

by aek＠bitsavers.org

You may want to compare your drive to the documentation on the HP 88780 under bitsavers/pdf/hp/tape I looked at one on an AS400 a long time ago, and IBM appeared to have OEMed the drive from HP. It is also 1600/6250 only, and 88780s are pretty rough on sticky tapes, so don't try using it on anything irreplacable.

21 years, 2 months

5
6
0 0

Looking for a TU55/TC11

by ed＠groenenberg.net

Ok, the matter is simple, I'm looking for a TU55/TC11 combo. I may have some other PDP material in trade/swap, let's talk in that case. If the TU55/TC11 it is only for sale, we can still talk, as I don't expect it to be without cost. Email me directly, no need to start another thread...... Ed

21 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

paging Eric in Seattle

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I've sent some E-mails to ericj at speakeasy.net and haven't heard a response... I'd like to get the Xenix to you before the Canada stuff goes to Denmark. -Scott Quinn

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Monroe electromechanical calculators

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I brought one of these home from Bletchley last weekend - turns out they're quite addictive little things :-) It's a Monromatic 8N-3-213 which was marked as broken - I thought I'd see if there was anything obviously wrong inside, plus of course I was curious as to what the innards of such a machine looked like. Question - does anyone have service information for these machines (yeah, right!) or useful tips on things to check over? So far I've found an acorn jamming up the works (!!) and lots of dirt, but the mechanism's reasonably oily still and in good condition. Some of the keys seem to jam occasionally or not latch - I'm hoping that's down to dirt rather than wear (it seems to be improving the more I tap away at things to be honest). After checking that everything was free to turn without jamming I applied power... There's some earth leakage which would be useful to track down - possibly a break-down in cable insulation? I've not worked out what the large rotating thingy on the outside end of the motor shaft does yet though, as this seems to be connected to an insulated plate (and throws off quite a few sparks when running) Can't say I've ever seen such a complicated thing. Electronic circuits don't even come close in complexity :-) I don't think I'd be up for a complete stripdown and rebuild; I'd never get it all back together. ps. Is there a better place to ask than here? Not sure whether electromechanical calculators are on topic or not! pps. Anyone care to guess a date for this machine? I'd make a wild guess at mid-50's but really don't know. cheers Jules

21 years, 2 months

5
10
0 0

Monroe electromechanical calculators

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > ---snip--- > >Regarding Sellam's squirrels, there's just no access to the innards of >the machine from the bottom or sides with the case on - the vents in the >base were too small for the acorn to even get in. I don't remember there >being sufficient room at the top around the carriage either, but I can't >check that until I put the case back on. I'm having fun concoting a >story where someone got the machine for cheap / free because it was >broken - when it was they who'd planted the nut in there, being able to >blame it on animals if it happened to be discovered :-) > Hi Jules It might be that the cover was off when the acorn got in there. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

HP 3000?? Thing-a-ma-jig available

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I suspect this allows more expanded terminal connections to a classic (i.e. > stack architecture) HP3000 beyond what you would normally have via an ATP. > ATP is the hardware for serial terminal connections. On the Series 64/68/70 > there was a bulkhead for this in the main CPU cabinet. Maybe this is for a > Series 44/48/58? Never saw one before. ...I've passed the link/question on to Chuck Shimada. -- I think I saw several of these sitting in the back room of Excess Solutions Had no idea what they were either.

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Mindset peripherals

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I know this is a really long shot, but does anybody have documentation, software, a keyboard, or a mouse for a Mindset? Or maybe information about using more common input devices? Thanks, Doc

21 years, 2 months

2
3
0 0

Altair Fan

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 17 2005, 10:56, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete at dunnington.u-net.com> > >On Jun 17 2005, 7:47, Cini, Richard wrote: > >> As I work on the IMSAI, which has no filter either, I will swap > >it > >> around, too. > > > >Don't do that. If it's designed to blow in, changing the direction to > >blowing out will alter and probably reduce the cooling. > Hi Pete > You have to remember, these machines were designed > by electrical engineers, not an air flow expert. Yes, > the original used in blowing air. Very common (both the EEs and the inblowing air :-)) Nor am I claiming to be a great airflow expert. What I was saying, though, doesn't really depend on whether it was designed by somebody who had a clue about airflow or not; it was likely checked by someone who determined that it worked "well enough" under some set of conditions. Changing something like the direction of airflow *without consideration of the consequences* is a bad thing. I'm not suggesting the airflow couldn't be improved one way or another. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Simon relay computer

by jim＠g1jbg.co.uk

A little while ago, we had a discussion about the Simon Relay Computer, and someone was going to look into scanning the articles, did it ever happen? I have a couple of large ex-radar control units(big box with power transformer and around 70 relays) here that are beginning to be converted........ Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

21 years, 2 months

2
2
0 0

Altair Fan

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com> > >On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> seemed to get no flow at all. Reversing the flow made >> a big difference. > >Ahhhh, >then you will need to make a sign to put on it to state that the air flow >has been changed from the "historical" :-) > Hi This is part of the continuing story of the IMSAI's history. Some part may never be known. My machine, although obviously and early machine, lacks a serial number. I guess that means it has no history. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Liquidating my collection

by francois＠auradon.com

Ok People, I'm cleaning up the barn. All the computers have to go. I have over 150 machines sitting there and I need to get rid of them. I do not really have time to make a full list but most are shown or listed on my web site. http://auradon.com/users/sanctuary/index.html I have a fair amount of duplicates too. I have boxes upon boxes of docs, accessories and peripherals to go with them. I do not want to list them on ebay as that would require a lot of preparations and shipping would be a major pain. I've got better plan for my summer. What I would like to do is have a big garage sale. I'm located in the southern subburbs of the Twin Cities (Minnesota). If any of you is interested please respond to my email: fauradon (at) fronttiernet (dot) net Note: I a only getting rid of the machines that appear under these titles: Computers, Portables, Laptops and Cartridge based computers on my website. I will keep the PDA, Pocket Computers, Video Games, Calcultors Robots etc... I will actually take any in trade as well. I can arrange for any convenient weekend. As a longtime member of this group (1997) I understand the hobby and am ready to make reasonable deals with any of you. Looking forward to hearing from any of you. Thank you Francois

21 years, 2 months

2
2
0 0

Monroe electromechanical calculators

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> ---snip--- > >I've been using sewing machine oil so far (which is the lightest stuff >I've got). I just wonder if leaving it in a (slowly circulating / >filtered?) bath of oil for a week or so would be useful for freeing >stuff up and getting all the dirt out... Hi You might try first removing any rubber parts and then soak the entire assembly in a pan of oil. You might use straight weight motor oil and dilute it down with a little kerosene. Let it sit for some time and then work it manually while in the oil. This helps to wash things out, like rust and little bits of abrasive material. Tony might want to comment on this, he has worked on more mechanical items than I have. > > >> > So far I've found an acorn jamming up the works (!!) and lots of dirt, >> >> An Acorn... What, a System 1, or an Atom, or a Beeb or an Arch, or what... >> >> (sorry, couldn't resist...) > >:-) > >I have no idea how it got in there; there isn't really a sufficient gap >anywhere for such a thing to fall inside. And it was *very* well buried >inside the mechanism (almost as though someone stuck it in there for >fun!) ---snip--- This was most likely done by a mouse. They like to stash these nuts in some of the damnedest places. I had to clean a pile of nuts from my IMSAI power supply and find the small opening my little friend used to transport them in. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Altair Fan

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Randy McLaughlin" <cctalk at randy482.com> ---snip--- > >As I said my recommendation it to set it up then test it, change things and >test again. > I have one of those nice Fluke multiple input meters with several thermocouple wires. It makes it easy to check things. On covering the power supply side, I leave about 1/4 of the air slots open towards the front panel. Randy is right that each installation requires a little different approach. If the machine is sparsely populated, one might even add some blocking to parts of the card cage. Air flow is a real funny thing. Air flow from a muffin fan is funnier still. Do remember, most power supply parts, such as diodes and transformers are more tolerant to temperature than your 20 year old memory chips. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

IBM 9348 9-track tape drive

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Brian Knittel" <brian at quarterbyte.com> > >> ... I recently read that operators would rub a bit of nose oil on >> the sticky or unreadable spot on the tape > >Is that the expensive stuff you buy in a little bottle, >they call it Attar of Noses? Hi This may have worked for reading but my experience is that any finger or nose grease will make recording fail on cassette tapes. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Altair Fan

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi One should note that unless the fan is blowing directly onto some particularly hot item, you'll get really poor air flow distribution by blowing with a muffin fan. First the fast moving air tended to stick to the first surface it finds ( Coanda effect ). Also the air is rotation that tends to cause it to find corners to travel along. When the air is pulls into the fan, it tends to have more laminar flow from all directions. For better all around cooling, I recommend taping or masking off most of the slots on the power supply side, near the fan ( for a IMSAI or Atair ). These keep the air from cheating by taking the path of least resistance. More air flows across the boards and along the power supply. Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave04a at dunfield.com> > >At 21:31 16/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >>All: >> >> OK, this is a stupid question. I'm fixing up the 8800b that I got >>recently and I removed the fan to perform some work on the power supply. >>Unfortunately I didn't mark which direction the air blows. Can someone tell >>me if it blows inward or outward? >> >> Thanks. >> >>Rich > >Hi Rich, > >Both of my 8800s have the fan blowing out. > >The general rule is: > >If the fan has a filter, then it should blow in.: > > By maintaining positive internal pressure, and > filtering the air that comes in, you keep dust > from entering the box. > >If it does not have a filter, it should blow out: > > A fast moving stream of air will carry more dust > than a slow one. If you blow the fan in, it will > carry dust into the box which will drop out before > it exits at slower speed (because of the much larger > area of all the vents and other openings) - it also > causes dust buildup to concentrate that certain > points bacause of sudden changes in airflow (you can > often see bands of thick dust in boxes with fans > improperly installed). Going the other way reduces > the entry speed (same reason) and thus the amount of > dust that enters - what does get in tends to settle > out in a more uniform distribution. > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > >

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

IBM 9348 9-track tape drive

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

> ... I recently read that operators would rub a bit of nose oil on > the sticky or unreadable spot on the tape Is that the expensive stuff you buy in a little bottle, they call it Attar of Noses?

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Windows 3.0

by roger161uk＠yahoo.co.uk

Hi, I have a copy of Windows 3.0 for DOS, in its original box. Not sure if it has a value on eBay, but just wondered if anybody wanted it (paying the cost of postage and packing) as I'm likely to bin it otherwise. Thanks, Roger ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Altair Fan

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

Dwight: Interestingly, on the IMSAI, the slotted vents on the power supply side are blocked to prevent the "path cheating" you alluded to. Also the inside of the IMSAI case was virtually spotless with an inward-blowing fan (and no filter) while the Altair, which I believe had an inward-blowing fan, was filthy. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 1:08 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair Fan Hi One should note that unless the fan is blowing directly onto some particularly hot item, you'll get really poor air flow distribution by blowing with a muffin fan. First the fast moving air tended to stick to the first surface it finds ( Coanda effect ). Also the air is rotation that tends to cause it to find corners to travel along. When the air is pulls into the fan, it tends to have more laminar flow from all directions. For better all around cooling, I recommend taping or masking off most of the slots on the power supply side, near the fan ( for a IMSAI or Atair ). These keep the air from cheating by taking the path of least resistance. More air flows across the boards and along the power supply. Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave04a at dunfield.com> > >At 21:31 16/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >>All: >> >> OK, this is a stupid question. I'm fixing up the 8800b that I got >>recently and I removed the fan to perform some work on the power supply. >>Unfortunately I didn't mark which direction the air blows. Can someone tell >>me if it blows inward or outward? >> >> Thanks. >> >>Rich > >Hi Rich, > >Both of my 8800s have the fan blowing out. > >The general rule is: > >If the fan has a filter, then it should blow in.: > > By maintaining positive internal pressure, and > filtering the air that comes in, you keep dust > from entering the box. > >If it does not have a filter, it should blow out: > > A fast moving stream of air will carry more dust > than a slow one. If you blow the fan in, it will > carry dust into the box which will drop out before > it exits at slower speed (because of the much larger > area of all the vents and other openings) - it also > causes dust buildup to concentrate that certain > points bacause of sudden changes in airflow (you can > often see bands of thick dust in boxes with fans > improperly installed). Going the other way reduces > the entry speed (same reason) and thus the amount of > dust that enters - what does get in tends to settle > out in a more uniform distribution. > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > >

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Altair Fan

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 17 2005, 7:47, Cini, Richard wrote: > Rules-of-thumb like this are great to know. The fan, I'm sure, was > installed (like the IMSAI) blowing IN because the inside was caked with > dust. So, I made it an exhaust fan (no filter). > > As I work on the IMSAI, which has no filter either, I will swap it > around, too. Don't do that. If it's designed to blow in, changing the direction to blowing out will alter and probably reduce the cooling. Why? Because turbulent air is lots better at cooling than a laminar flow, and will reach more parts of the case. You get turbulent air from the "blow" side of a fan, but laminar flow towards the inlet side. You may also be directing the airflow away fom some component that previously was cooled, eg a PSU. Moreover, if you alter the flow direction so that air is being sucked in through all the other orifices, it will be entering via the fronts of disk drives etc (well, probably not on this machine but I'm thinking of the general case). That's the last place you want the dust. Far better it drops on the motherboard where you can vacuum it out. Better still, fit a filter. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

IBM 9348 9-track tape drive

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> You may want to compare your drive to the documentation on the >> HP 88780 under bitsavers/pdf/hp/tape > > These 9 track SCSI tape drives (HP 88780) were AKA 7979A, 7980A, 7980XC/SX. > The were OEMed by a LOT of manufacturers, including IBM, Sun, Tandem, etc. I've never seen a Tandem that wasn't HV Differential SCSI. A lot of them have come through BDI. Sun-labeled ones are what you should watch for. They all seem to have the 800bpi option, and are SE SCSI.

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Is this an RK05? Can anyone read it?

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

I have 3 working RK05 drives on my PDP-11/40 and have used them to successfully read and copy the data from RK05 packs that had not been spun up since the 1970s and early 1980s, but I guess I'm on the wrong side of the ocean. Good luck with recovering the data. I know what it's like to finally recover data from a pack that has been lying dormant for nearly 30 years. It's quite an exciting feeling, especially if it's stuff that you or your associates developed and you had once written it off as "lost forever". Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> Sent: Jun 17, 2005 8:00 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org, gtoal at gtoal.com Subject: Re: Is this an RK05? Can anyone read it? On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 Graham Toal <gtoal at gtoal.com> wrote: Hi. > There was once a student project to write a multi-tasking operating > system for the PDP11. Written at Groeningen University in the > Netherlands under the supervision of professor Harry Whitfield, > this O/S had more than a passing resemblance to the classic > mainframe O/S, EMAS, from Edinburgh. > > The O/S was thought to be lost apart from small excerpts that were > documented in the project report (online at: > http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/scans/guts/ ) > > but a disk pack has turned up which has a fair chance of containing > a working binary and sources. > > We think this is an RK05 pack for a PDP11: > > http://www.gtoal.com/images/rk05.JPG > > Can anyone confirm that? It's definitely an RK05. If it is for a PDP-11 is another issue. RK05 packs are hard sectored. If you look at the bottom, you'll find a metal edge with grooves in it. The grooves marks sectors. A PDP-11 RK05 will have 13 grooves. If it's for a PDP-8, it will have 17. I've also seen packs with 32 (or if it was 33) grooves. Don't know what system that is for. The grooves are evenly spaced, except for one, which is two grooves rather close together, which marks the start of a revolution. > And is there anyone in the UK who could read the drive? It may be > in a format that is backwards compatible with one of the DEC O/Ses, > or it may be unreadable at the FS level, just readable at the > block level. (Which shouldn't be an insurmountable problem, given > the scan of the documentation; also a disk image should pop right > in to one of Bob Supnik's emulators.) > > If someone trustworthy in the UK would like to have a go at > reading this drive, the keeper of the disk pack (in Edinburgh, > Scotland) will mail it to you. It would have to be someone who > I recognise from the list or who would be vouched for by a > list regular. As you can imagine we're a little squirrely > about sending the only copy to a stranger, especially in view > of an unfortunate experience we had last year. > > This drive probably has not been spun up since 1978 or 79. > > If anyone would like to help, please email me at gtoal at gtoal.com Well, I'm not in England, and you probably don't know me. I probably do have the ability to read the pack, but it would require some work on my part. The PDP-11 I have with an RK11 controller is located 80 km from me, and it don't have any RK05 drives attached today. I have PDP-8 systems at home, which have RK05 drives. So it would mean getting an RK05 into a car, drive to where the PDP-11 is, hook things up, and then run. And I'm in Sweden. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Question about PDF manipulation

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: >You do not get my point: Instead of adding an extra step to make PDF >files, I think it is better to keep the raw scans. Having scanned tens of thousands of pages, hundreds of manuals (the majority of which are available online, free, at Howard's site), let me make a few comments about that also: First, the scanning is done natively in Acrobat. You don't scan individual pages, and then create a PDF file from 100 individual files. You scan documents, not pages, Acrobat itself is the scanning program, there are no individual files to save. However, Acrobat becomes, in effect, a "container" for what are almost invariably "JPEG" files, and you can export individual JPEG or TIFF or pretty much {whatever format you want} files of each individual page, with a single mouse click. (and then, if you want, you can "touch them up" any way you want with any program you want, and then reimport the "new" page, either replacing the old page or as an additional page). I really don't think that you understand the nature and capabilities of the product (Acrobat) that you are criticizing.

21 years, 2 months

5
6
0 0

Altair Fan

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

Dave: Rules-of-thumb like this are great to know. The fan, I'm sure, was installed (like the IMSAI) blowing IN because the inside was caked with dust. So, I made it an exhaust fan (no filter). As I work on the IMSAI, which has no filter either, I will swap it around, too. To answer another comment at the same time, the fan does indeed have an arrow but the arrow itself doesn't tell me if it should be facing IN or OUT. Rich ============================= Richard A. Cini, Jr. Director Wachovia Capital Finance 1133 Avenue of the Americas New York, NY 10036 W: 212-545-4402 F: 212-545-4589 -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:01 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Altair Fan At 21:31 16/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >All: > > OK, this is a stupid question. I'm fixing up the 8800b that I got >recently and I removed the fan to perform some work on the power supply. >Unfortunately I didn't mark which direction the air blows. Can someone tell >me if it blows inward or outward? > > Thanks. > >Rich Hi Rich, Both of my 8800s have the fan blowing out. The general rule is: If the fan has a filter, then it should blow in.: By maintaining positive internal pressure, and filtering the air that comes in, you keep dust from entering the box. If it does not have a filter, it should blow out: A fast moving stream of air will carry more dust than a slow one. If you blow the fan in, it will carry dust into the box which will drop out before it exits at slower speed (because of the much larger area of all the vents and other openings) - it also causes dust buildup to concentrate that certain points bacause of sudden changes in airflow (you can often see bands of thick dust in boxes with fans improperly installed). Going the other way reduces the entry speed (same reason) and thus the amount of dust that enters - what does get in tends to settle out in a more uniform distribution. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Is this an RK05? Can anyone read it?

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 Graham Toal <gtoal at gtoal.com> wrote: Hi. > There was once a student project to write a multi-tasking operating > system for the PDP11. Written at Groeningen University in the > Netherlands under the supervision of professor Harry Whitfield, > this O/S had more than a passing resemblance to the classic > mainframe O/S, EMAS, from Edinburgh. > > The O/S was thought to be lost apart from small excerpts that were > documented in the project report (online at: > http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/scans/guts/ ) > > but a disk pack has turned up which has a fair chance of containing > a working binary and sources. > > We think this is an RK05 pack for a PDP11: > > http://www.gtoal.com/images/rk05.JPG > > Can anyone confirm that? It's definitely an RK05. If it is for a PDP-11 is another issue. RK05 packs are hard sectored. If you look at the bottom, you'll find a metal edge with grooves in it. The grooves marks sectors. A PDP-11 RK05 will have 13 grooves. If it's for a PDP-8, it will have 17. I've also seen packs with 32 (or if it was 33) grooves. Don't know what system that is for. The grooves are evenly spaced, except for one, which is two grooves rather close together, which marks the start of a revolution. > And is there anyone in the UK who could read the drive? It may be > in a format that is backwards compatible with one of the DEC O/Ses, > or it may be unreadable at the FS level, just readable at the > block level. (Which shouldn't be an insurmountable problem, given > the scan of the documentation; also a disk image should pop right > in to one of Bob Supnik's emulators.) > > If someone trustworthy in the UK would like to have a go at > reading this drive, the keeper of the disk pack (in Edinburgh, > Scotland) will mail it to you. It would have to be someone who > I recognise from the list or who would be vouched for by a > list regular. As you can imagine we're a little squirrely > about sending the only copy to a stranger, especially in view > of an unfortunate experience we had last year. > > This drive probably has not been spun up since 1978 or 79. > > If anyone would like to help, please email me at gtoal at gtoal.com Well, I'm not in England, and you probably don't know me. I probably do have the ability to read the pack, but it would require some work on my part. The PDP-11 I have with an RK11 controller is located 80 km from me, and it don't have any RK05 drives attached today. I have PDP-8 systems at home, which have RK05 drives. So it would mean getting an RK05 into a car, drive to where the PDP-11 is, hook things up, and then run. And I'm in Sweden. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

NEXTstep web browsers

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Hi folks, Having got NEXTStep 3.3 and all the toys my mind naturally set about wondering if I could compile Firefox on my slab, and having got as far as 'probably' I've decided the machine's probably not going to be fast enough for such a modern browser. This brings to mind the question of NEXTstep browsers, and the realisation that there's probably only one - OmniWeb, so I've downloaded 2.7b3 but does anyone know if there are any other browsers or later versions of OmniWeb? ta! -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?

21 years, 2 months

6
10
0 0

Altair Fan

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 21:31 16/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >All: > > OK, this is a stupid question. I'm fixing up the 8800b that I got >recently and I removed the fan to perform some work on the power supply. >Unfortunately I didn't mark which direction the air blows. Can someone tell >me if it blows inward or outward? > > Thanks. > >Rich Hi Rich, Both of my 8800s have the fan blowing out. The general rule is: If the fan has a filter, then it should blow in.: By maintaining positive internal pressure, and filtering the air that comes in, you keep dust from entering the box. If it does not have a filter, it should blow out: A fast moving stream of air will carry more dust than a slow one. If you blow the fan in, it will carry dust into the box which will drop out before it exits at slower speed (because of the much larger area of all the vents and other openings) - it also causes dust buildup to concentrate that certain points bacause of sudden changes in airflow (you can often see bands of thick dust in boxes with fans improperly installed). Going the other way reduces the entry speed (same reason) and thus the amount of dust that enters - what does get in tends to settle out in a more uniform distribution. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Commodore CSG == ICS??

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

Greg: The CFO of ICS confirmed that they are not the same building but across the street. When I went to CSG a few years ago, it was the only semicon plant in the development that I saw. I would say that ICS is probably in an uninteresting office building. If I were closer I would drive by out of curiosity and if I had nothing else going on that day. Richard Cini Director Wachovia Capital Finance 212-545-4402 -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only <cctech at classiccmp.org> Sent: Fri Jun 17 00:10:21 2005 Subject: RE: Commodore CSG == ICS?? > > I saw a news clip this morning about IDT (a semiconductor > company) buying Integrated Circuit Systems. ICS makes analog and mixed > signal chips and owns Turtle Beach Sound. The thing that made me > curious was > that ICS was located in Norristown, PA. I thought to myself what are the > chances of there being two semiconductor plants in Norristown PA. > The first > successor to Commodore CSG, GMT Microelectronics was also into > mixed signal > ASICs. > > > > ICS is located at 2435 Boulevard of the Generals, > Norristown, PA > 19403. The Commodore CSG was located at 950 Rittenhouse Road. So, I ran a > Mapquest on both addresses and it appears they point to the same physical > location in the Valley Forge Corporate Center at the corner of Rittenhouse > Road and Van Buren. Hmmm... > > > > According to the public filings, ICS bought the property in > 1992, which was before Commodore failed in 1994. And, it's known that GMT > Microelectronics (now defunct; owned by former CSG engineers and managers) > bought the old CSG plant in 1996. So, it can't be the same > location...maybe > there are two semicon plants next door to each other?? > > > > Interestingly the president and CEO, Hock Tan, joined ICS in > 1994. ICS was incorporated in Pennsylvania in 1976. Prior to joining ICS, > Hock Tan was Vice President of Finance of Commodore International, Ltd. > > > > So, I emailed a contact at the Company, but I haven't > heard back > yet. Does anyone on the list live near Norristown, PA? It's about a 3 hour > hike from me, so it's not that easy for me to visit. > > > > Rich I live about 30-45 mins from there. I can take a ride by there Monday or Tuesday if you want. I am a bit curious about this myself now too. Greg Manuel ==> See forgotten passwords befind **** asterisks: www.SeePassword.com

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

cctech Digest, Vol 22, Issue 25

by hatfield＠bellsouth.net

> Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:34:49 +0200 > From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> > Subject: Re: PDP-8s and -10s > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <20050616103449.0e33cb3f.jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:53:53 +0100 > "Andy Holt" <andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > [CDC6600 in a FPGA] >> As the 6600 was entirely built with discrete components, not chips, >> and yet had to be physically relatively compact, I doubt if it had >> much more than say 20,000-25,000 gates. Nowadays that isn't anywhere >> near high end of the FPGA ranges. > I don't know how many gates, but the Book "Design of a Computer CDC6600" > states on page 20: "the entire 6600 Computer contains approximately > 400,000 transistors". It used "Direct-Coupled Transistor Logic" so there > where way less then 400,000 gates. > -- > > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > > > My Xport 2.0 for Gameboy Advance programming has a programmable FPGA with 150,000 gates. Doesn't seem to be uncommon by today's standards. See: Gameboy Advantage for Non-Gaming Applicatiions Turning a fun toy into a powerful tool Dr. Dobb's Journal, May 2004. Embedded Systems http://www.ddj.com Fred K8VDU

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

DEC Docs Pictures.

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Here are some pictures of ONE load of the DEc documents. This after I'd already taken some of them out of the car! <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/dec-docs/> Joe

21 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

Altair Fan

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: OK, this is a stupid question. I'm fixing up the 8800b that I got recently and I removed the fan to perform some work on the power supply. Unfortunately I didn't mark which direction the air blows. Can someone tell me if it blows inward or outward? Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Funny CC coincidence on SNL

by vcf＠siconic.com

I was watching the Best of Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live. There was a segment in which Eddie was playing the Tooth Fairy being interviewed on a fictional interview show about career choices. The wall in the background was a blow-up of the want ads section of the newspaper. When the camera was focused on Eddie, that angle made the following ad visible in the background: DATA ENTRY CLERKS IBM System 34; 5251 display station operator 9 to 5:30 & 12 to 8:30 shifts available Midtown. Salary open :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Commodore CSG == ICS??

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

All: I saw a news clip this morning about IDT (a semiconductor company) buying Integrated Circuit Systems. ICS makes analog and mixed signal chips and owns Turtle Beach Sound. The thing that made me curious was that ICS was located in Norristown, PA. I thought to myself what are the chances of there being two semiconductor plants in Norristown PA. The first successor to Commodore CSG, GMT Microelectronics was also into mixed signal ASICs. ICS is located at 2435 Boulevard of the Generals, Norristown, PA 19403. The Commodore CSG was located at 950 Rittenhouse Road. So, I ran a Mapquest on both addresses and it appears they point to the same physical location in the Valley Forge Corporate Center at the corner of Rittenhouse Road and Van Buren. Hmmm... According to the public filings, ICS bought the property in 1992, which was before Commodore failed in 1994. And, it's known that GMT Microelectronics (now defunct; owned by former CSG engineers and managers) bought the old CSG plant in 1996. So, it can't be the same location...maybe there are two semicon plants next door to each other?? Interestingly the president and CEO, Hock Tan, joined ICS in 1994. ICS was incorporated in Pennsylvania in 1976. Prior to joining ICS, Hock Tan was Vice President of Finance of Commodore International, Ltd. So, I emailed a contact at the Company, but I haven't heard back yet. Does anyone on the list live near Norristown, PA? It's about a 3 hour hike from me, so it's not that easy for me to visit. Rich

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

98x6 pascal system design manual

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I have several sets of original floppy disks. I would like to borrow these and some HPL/Basic et. al. prom sets from you once I get all of the other stuff that I owe you back to you.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Monochrome (MGA) monitor needed

by phillipmilks＠netzero.com

An NPO that I know of in Indianapolis is in need of a working monitor. Is there anyone in the area that can supply one ?

21 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Is this an RK05? Can anyone read it?

by gtoal＠gtoal.com

There was once a student project to write a multi-tasking operating system for the PDP11. Written at Groeningen University in the Netherlands under the supervision of professor Harry Whitfield, this O/S had more than a passing resemblance to the classic mainframe O/S, EMAS, from Edinburgh. The O/S was thought to be lost apart from small excerpts that were documented in the project report (online at: http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/scans/guts/ ) but a disk pack has turned up which has a fair chance of containing a working binary and sources. We think this is an RK05 pack for a PDP11: http://www.gtoal.com/images/rk05.JPG Can anyone confirm that? And is there anyone in the UK who could read the drive? It may be in a format that is backwards compatible with one of the DEC O/Ses, or it may be unreadable at the FS level, just readable at the block level. (Which shouldn't be an insurmountable problem, given the scan of the documentation; also a disk image should pop right in to one of Bob Supnik's emulators.) If someone trustworthy in the UK would like to have a go at reading this drive, the keeper of the disk pack (in Edinburgh, Scotland) will mail it to you. It would have to be someone who I recognise from the list or who would be vouched for by a list regular. As you can imagine we're a little squirrely about sending the only copy to a stranger, especially in view of an unfortunate experience we had last year. This drive probably has not been spun up since 1978 or 79. If anyone would like to help, please email me at gtoal at gtoal.com Thanks Graham

21 years, 2 months

1
1
0 0

98x6 pascal system design manual

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I put this up just before I left for a few weeks, and didn't mention it on the list. http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/98xx/09826-90074_Pascal2.0_SysDes_Mar83.pdf Which describes version 2.0 of the PASCAL system for the 98x6 series and has a bunch of detail on the series 200 and 300 hardware. If anyone has copies of the floppies for these systems, I'm interested in archiving them. It appears I have a partial set of basic and pascal discs.

21 years, 2 months

3
3
0 0

vectrex schematics wtd...

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

See above :) Found the darn things on the web about a year ago, didn't save them (d'oh!) and now can't find them... (the audio interference on this one in front of me doesn't go away with the audio lead disconnected, so it's not the usual problem of the audio cable picking up noise) cheers Jules

21 years, 2 months

3
3
0 0

how to image pre dos 2.0 disks (?)

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Winimage has beem doing a pretty good job until now, but it chokes on some really early stuff. It also doesnt like some diagnostic programs, that are not recognized as FAT. And you also cant, to my knowledge dump an image to a disk differing from the original. Any suggestions? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

21 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Classiccmp Retirement

by jpl15＠panix.com

After a lot of thought, and realizing that my interests have changed over the years - I am retiring from the Computer Collecting Hobby and transferring my Stuff to someone who actually wants it... ;} My interest was generally with PDP-11 hardware - and to just 'have the machine'. I have done that. In over a year, I have not had power on to any of the machines here - nor any real desire to - and I'd like the room back, from my storage spaces, my garage, and most of two walls in my office. I will now devote more time and space to my other passtimes - my electronic music studio, my vintage Ham Radio AM station, etc. I have greatly enjoyed my time with this hobby - and have amassed literally tons of equipment and doc and media - once before I sold my entire collection, when I left for overseas work - the present 11/44 system was aquired (by remote control) while I was yet living in southern India. But now it's time to move on. I'd like to thank the many friends a friendly folk on this maillist, and I wish you all well in the future. I'll be un-subbing very shortly, but those of you who have my e-mail are invited to write any time. Thanks again to everyone here who has given so generously of their time and expertise, and I am proud to have played a very small part in preserving Legacy Computing for future generations. Not 'goodbye', but "So Long!" Cheers John

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Default password for Pick system on an AT?

by richard.beaudry＠gmail.com

Hello all, I recently acquired an IBM PC-AT 5170, and it is running Pick. When it boots up, there are some startup messages, then a banner: THE PICK SYSTEM PC-AT VER 2.1 of 26 Mar 87 Then, there is a "Logon" prompt. I have no idea what the correct login is, and I am not the original owner (nor is the person I got the system from). Is there some default login? Google didn't seem to be of much help.... I tried obvious things like "pick", "login", "user", etc .... Even tried mixed-case, and all uppercase.... no joy :-( Thanks for any help in advance.... Rich B.

21 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

Dodgy IBM PC Convertible power supply

by vcf＠siconic.com

I've got a couple IBM PC Convertibles that exhibit the same problem with their power supply. When I press the power button (which is a momentary switch) it turns on briefly: the disk drive light goes on and the drive starts to spin or the display shows brief activity, but in either case for only about a tenth of a second. Sometimes if I hold the switch just right I can get it to make it through the entire memory test and up to the point where it wants a disk in the drive, but it's very hit & miss. It certainly is not behaving as it should. I've tried cleaning both the switch and the AC adaptor socket but so far this has not improved anything. The switch seems to be doing its job, and the power seems to be making it to the unit. It just seems like the power supply becomes unhappy at some point, unless I hold the switch in a certain position, but then I invariably lose my touch and the power goes out again. I'm using appropriate adaptors, including a car cigarette lighter adaptor plugged into mains using an AC-to-cigarette lighter socket adapter (kind of handy in this case). I've tried swapping the internal power supplies around between units but get the same problem on each. One has a battery pack and one doesn't, but having it in or not in does not make a difference. Seems like the power supplies are dodgy or something? Any ideas? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 2 months

7
12
0 0

if there's list problems....

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

So far the changes I made to mail routing seem to be working perfectly. However, if anyone notices that they suddenly can't post to the list any longer, please email me at jwest at ezwind.net instead of my usual address. This is temporary :) Jay

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Fwd: [GreenKeys] Rock and Roll Teletype 'experts'

by jfoust＠threedee.com

>Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:52:03 -0400 (EDT) >From: John Lawson <jpl15 at panix.com> >To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net >Subject: [GreenKeys] Rock and Roll Teletype 'experts' > > Clever use of Baudot code on an album cover - fascinating information from "experts" on the origins of it - I bet none of us knew that ITU 1 was "...used in Teletype machines in the late 1800s." > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050609/ap_en_mu/coldplay_album_cover > >Cheers > >John KB6SCO

21 years, 2 months

5
5
0 0

another test - please ignore again

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

:)

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

test - please ignore

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I've gone and made some changes to the classiccmp mail routing.... it SHOULD have been transparent. Hopefully it was, but I'm monitoring it. Jay

21 years, 2 months

1
1
0 0

Ashton-Tate FRAMEWORK II Copy protection?!?!

by mokuba＠gmail.com

I've got copy of FRAMEWORK II, the original SYSTEM1 disk is damaged, and SYSTEM1(Backup) Is calling itself an unauthorized copy, even though it's the original disk? Any ideas on creating a good disk to use?

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apple Goes Intel...

by ohh＠drizzle.com

I don't know if this is bad news or even worse news, but for those who haven't heard yet: "At its Worldwide Developer Conference today, Apple announced plans to deliver models of its Macintosh computers using Intel microprocessors by this time next year, and to transition all of its Macs to using Intel microprocessors by the end of 2007. Apple previewed a version of its critically acclaimed operating system, Mac OS X Tiger, running on an Intel-based Mac to the over 3,800 developers attending..." http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html I think most of the eggs are in one basket now, and not a very reliable basket at that. :( Opinions? -O.-

21 years, 2 months

32
67
0 0

PDP 11/23+ success and stupidity

by jim＠g1jbg.co.uk

I've finally managed to get the OEM 11/23+ to boot from an RL02 and run XXDP (all I could find on RL02 media at the moment). The lack of correct operation of the terminal was down to two things...... I read the DIP switches as inverse :-( and I got the RCV+ and a ground wire swapped in the terminal cable :-( Major lesson from this exercise? Don't try and read the switches or make a cable in a hurry.... Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

KA9Q, was Re: Retrochallenge, 2005

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: KA9Q, was Re: Retrochallenge, 2005 > From: Stan Barr <stanb at dial.pipex.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:08:49 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Hi, > >Tom Jennings said: >> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Stan Barr wrote: >> >> > I also ran KA9Q tcp/ip over packet radio on a 386 with MSDOS for quite a >> > while (and I think I've still got the disks somewhere), does that count >> > as "online"? >> >> Damn right it does! We (the little garden) ran a whole internet on >> 40 MHz 386 boxes with KA9Q as router for four member/customers >> (four serial cards and four modems, with ethernet to a 3COM >> Brouter or in some cases another KA9Q box as uplink). Around >> 1992. Real TCP/IP and minimal routing, plus local (keyboard/CRT) >> support for client and servers. Doesn't get more real than that! > >I've come over all nostalgic! I think I'll dig out a 386, find the disks, >sort out my ex-taxi radio and get it going again, assuming there's still >some activity and a node I can reach from here. There are disadvantges >to being down at sea-level surrounded by hills :-( > >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb at dial.pipex.com > >The future was never like this! > What you may find is APRS (Automatic Position Reporting System). Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Commodore CSG == ICS??

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

All: OK, I heard from someone at ICS. Their building is across the street from the old CSG facility. Rich _____ From: Cini, Richard Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 9:53 AM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Commodore CSG == ICS?? All: I saw a news clip this morning about IDT (a semiconductor company) buying Integrated Circuit Systems. ICS makes analog and mixed signal chips and owns Turtle Beach Sound. The thing that made me curious was that ICS was located in Norristown, PA. I thought to myself what are the chances of there being two semiconductor plants in Norristown PA. The first successor to Commodore CSG, GMT Microelectronics was also into mixed signal ASICs. ICS is located at 2435 Boulevard of the Generals, Norristown, PA 19403. The Commodore CSG was located at 950 Rittenhouse Road. So, I ran a Mapquest on both addresses and it appears they point to the same physical location in the Valley Forge Corporate Center at the corner of Rittenhouse Road and Van Buren. Hmmm... According to the public filings, ICS bought the property in 1992, which was before Commodore failed in 1994. And, it's known that GMT Microelectronics (now defunct; owned by former CSG engineers and managers) bought the old CSG plant in 1996. So, it can't be the same location...maybe there are two semicon plants next door to each other?? Interestingly the president and CEO, Hock Tan, joined ICS in 1994. ICS was incorporated in Pennsylvania in 1976. Prior to joining ICS, Hock Tan was Vice President of Finance of Commodore International, Ltd. So, I emailed a contact at the Company, but I haven't heard back yet. Does anyone on the list live near Norristown, PA? It's about a 3 hour hike from me, so it's not that easy for me to visit. Rich

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Article in NewScientist

by news＠computercollector.com

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/info-tech/mg18625046.100 ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Also see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 740 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

PDP-8s and -10s

by aw288＠osfn.org

Speaking of PDP-8s, and now PDP-10s - a thought that passed my mind: Is there a good reason why DEC did not use the PDP-8 architecture in the PDP-10, for proper channel controllers? Cheap, versatile, sixbit, and when the KA10 came out, already designed. I would have thought it to be an obvious "drop-in" solution. Any thoughts? William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org

21 years, 2 months

7
14
0 0

OT sortof (HUMOR)

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Someone passed this on to me a while back, I'm not sure if I posted it here or not yet. If I did, I apologize for the second post. When I read this, I kept thinking of all the great classiccmp list debates and just got a few good chuckles: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physics.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.

21 years, 2 months

5
6
0 0

The Dark Side!

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I've succuumed to the Dark Side! or is it the DEC Side? I bought a PDP-8 today. Also brought home another car FULL of docs. Joe

21 years, 2 months

3
4
0 0

HP 9805A

by ibase＠bbs.infima.cz

Hello Joe, you have selled a.o. the HP 9805 calculator on eBay on January 2003, please could you write me the achieved price of HP 9805 at eBay? I have the same HP and I want to sell it on eBay in the near future too. Thank you very much for your help in advance. Best regards, Michael Joe cctech at classiccmp.org wrote: >> FYI: I just threw some stuff on E-bay including a HP 9805 Statistics calculator, two volumes of model 33 Teletype manuals, a Teletype tool, a programmer's panel and an Apple computer Module ID book. The auctions are for 5 days only so don't delay. I will be adding more tomorrow.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

976x heads

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/astro-ii/P6140259.jpg are heads for CDC 976x drives I suspect Curt at atarimuseum will be interested in these.

21 years, 2 months

3
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Microlog 8-bit ISA 8" floppy controller

by richard.beaudry＠gmail.com

Hello all, I recently acquired a Microlog PC-107 8" disk controller, with manual and software disk. This is an 8-bit ISA card intended to go in a PC 5150, and allow the user to access 8" drives with DOS. Back in the 5150 days, having 1.2MB of storage was a big deal when 5.25" floppies were 160KB. There is also some note in the manual about reading SSSD CP/M disks and copying files. The only bad news is that it is intended to work only with DOS 1.1, and it actually patches DOS to set its hooks in the system. I'd like to try it with a more modern DOS, but it will require some work :-(. The good news is that the disk that came with it was readable :-), and contains a file called BIOS.A86, which has the following comment at the top: ;**************************************************************** ;* * ;* BIOS FOR IBM-PC DOS 1.1 * ;* * ;**************************************************************** TITLE 'BIOS FOR IBM-PC DOS 1.1 WITH MICROLOG 8" DRIVERS' This appears to be the source for part of the standard DOS 1.1, with Microlog's patches. Theoretically, then, I can deduce how the card works, and maybe make it work with a newer DOS. I was wondering: 1) is anyone is using the same controller successfully with DOS 1.1? 2) has anyone already ported this to a newer DOS version? 3) is anyone else interested in the port if I do it? Thanks! Rich B.

21 years, 2 months

2
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MITS 8800B CPU Board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: MITS 8800B CPU Board > From: Tom Jennings <tomj at wps.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:51:33 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > Cc: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Allison wrote: > >> Yes, you will have to have rom at 0000h though and Mwrite >> was derived and delivered from the front pannel if memory >> serves. So that means ram will have to be set up to not >> require Mwrite. Either that or you will have to through >> something small together to create Mwrite. >> >> As to mapping rom out once operational, thats a later problem. >> It's fairly easy to do. > >My S100 system has a homemade EPROM card that powers up into the >address space, on top of RAM, where the Z80 jumps to it and >executes from it. > >The first thing the EPROM code does is copy itself, in place. This >reads from EPROM, writes to RAM (well, to EPROM too, but the write >line is ignored by the EPROM board). > >There is a flip-flop set by the RESET line that enables the EPROM >board. Any I/O instruction (eg. address not decoded) resets the >flip-flop, disabling the board. > >Therefore, right after the EPROM monitor copies itself to RAM, it >jumps to the serial port init code, and any old IN or OUT >instruction disables the EPROM card, leaving the full 64K address >space available. > >My EPROM monitor occupies the top 2K? of the first 32K of address >space. It fits in the lower 32K static memory card. Hitting reset >does not disturb CP/M (up at ef00h), and leaves "most" TPA >programs intact. > >The board was designed/made by Tom Campbell, who I worked for way >back when. It's elegantly simple. > > > > di ; everyone shut up, please > lxi h, epromstartaddress ; EPROM address > lxi d, epromstartaddress ; likewise, I'm sure, > lxi b, 2048 ; BC=EPROM size > ldir ; whirl! > in 0 ; disables EPROM > ... > Only one detail... the proposed cpu was 8080 (MITS 8800B)! di ; everyone shut up, please loop: lxi h, epromstartaddress ; EPROM address lxi d, epromstartaddress ; likewise, I'm sure, lxi b, 2048 ; BC=EPROM size ; ldir ; whirl! ;replace with.. DCX B MOV a,b ORA c JNZ loop ; back to original program in 0 ; disables EPROM Horrid as it's mixed 8080/z80 code. Allison

21 years, 2 months

3
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PDP system available across the pond :)

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I received an email about a PDP system being available. This system MAY be spoken for tentatively, but because the guy is in a hurry I wanted to get the word out in case the current candidate doesn't want it.... System description: ------------------ The PDP-11/73 is 19" rack mounted (rack not included). It consists of the main cabinet (CPU, RAM, I/O, RM02 100 MB disk), expansion unit with two 300 MB Disk (at least one of them OK) and another unit with a 1/2" tape drive. RAM: 512 kb (not quite sure about it, can be less), I/O: Ethernet, 4 x rs-232, real-time clock card, GPIB controller(NI), ADC (NI), parallel port, CAMAC interface. It was running RSX-11M 4.2 and DECnet (don't remember version). We have all manuals (RSX+DECnet) and tapes with the OS software. Please let me know if there is anybody interested a.s.a.p. - I can't store the system much longer. -------------------- And... the system is located in Uppsala, Sweden. While the subject of price hasn't been broached, I am under the impression it's available for the carting away, but there may be a small fee. If anyone is interested, drop me a line and if the primary candidate doesn't want it, I'll draw numbers out of a hat :) This system must be picked up immediately! Jay

21 years, 2 months

3
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Austin Trip

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I will be in Austin to pick up some donations on Saturday June 18th and if any list members have any items for me still, drop me a private email. We could meet up once I finish loading the trailer. Thanks John

21 years, 2 months

2
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Austin Trip

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I will be in Austin to pick up some donations on Saturday June 18th and if any list members have any items for me still, drop me a private email. We could meet up once I finish loading the trailer. Thanks John

21 years, 2 months

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Ping Randy McLaughlin

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Your mailbox runneth over. Apologies to the rest of the list. Doc

21 years, 2 months

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NEXTstep web browsers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: NEXTstep web browsers > From: "Witchy" <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:40:47 +0100 (BST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >>>for such a modern browser. >> >> How slow is it? I Happen to run firefox on a P166 and also run it on >> a P100 and its ok, slow to start but then fine. > >The slab contains a 25mhz 68040 and mine has a staggering 8mb of RAM. I >think I'm asking too much of it :) That still has to be better than my first 386/16 machine with 4mb running Win3.1 and Netscape! >I'm working on the last versions of OmniWeb but they require me to install >many things from CD which I'm not about to do at half midnight since I've >got to be up in 5 or 6 hours......curse this 'work' thing - why can't we >be paid handsomely for preserving ye olde silicon of yore?! That would be fine with me. Then again my last job was exactly that, keeping 20 desktops (fastest was P166) happy. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Pac-Man turns 25

by news＠computercollector.com

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/06/15/pac.man.25.ap/index.html Lenny Herman, quoted atop this AP story, also published Ralph Baer's recent autobiography. ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Also see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 740 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 2 months

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FS/FT: Two Xerox 6085 computers

by blairrya＠msu.edu

Due to the size of these and lack of interest on my part, I have two Xerox 6085 computers and some associated bits in need of a new home. http://tinyurl.com/ccm3j has some pictures of this stuff Since these are fairly heavy, they will be pickup only from 48821 (near Lansing, Michigan). Best offer or trade. Most interesting trades to me right now would be IA64 or PPC gear, but I'm open to other things. A fair bit more detailed description of what I have follows. CPUs: Xerox 6085 Hard drive is labelled as "XPIW 2.0" Cards: P/N 140K05980: LPO (printer port) >--- a half-height card 140K05560: IOP (ethernet, floppy, keyboard, serial comm, serial printer) 140K04160: MBP (bus extender port) 140K01000: MEB (no ports on this card, extra memory perhaps?) 140K00460: DCM (display port) Xerox 6085 Hard drive labelled as "Viewpoint 2.0" Cards: P/N 140K05550: PCE (PC emulator card?) \____ these are half-height 140K05980: LPO (printer port) / cards that share a slot 140K24340: IOP-2 (ethernet, floppy, keyboard, comm, printer) 140K24590: MBP-2 (no ports on this card) <blank slot> 140K24580: DCM-2 (display port) Other hardware: 2 Xerox mouse pads 2 mice 1 keyboard 2 floppy enclosures (one with a drive in it, one with just air) 1 extra hard drive tray (from browsing the docs, it looks like you need an ST412/ST506 if you want to replace a drive) These computers do not come with monitors. I do not know if it is possible to easily cook something up to connect standard monitors to them. Documentation: 1 Training and Reference: Xerox Viewpoint 2 packets of loose documentation 1 MS-DOS User's Guide for the 6085 2 Workstation Equipment and Installation 1 Xerox Viewpoint 1.1 GW BASIC by Microsoft 1 Reference: Document Editor Media: VP font disks (around 20 disks) VP Spellchecker 1.1 VP Terminal Emulation of DEC VT100 1.0 VP NetCom 1.1.2 common software VP NetCom 1.1 network install scripts VP PC Emulation 1.1.7 6085 Xerox Viewpoint 1.1.7 (Basic Workstation #1) Xerox PC Emulation Utilities VP 1.1.7 Xerox MS DOS 3.10 Xerox GW Basic 3.10 VP Document Editor 1.1.2 (disks 1-3) VP Local Laser Printing 1.1 VP File Conversion of ASCII documents 1.1 VP File Conversion of Wordstar Documents 1.1 6085 VP Long Document Options VP File Conversion of 860 Documents 1.1 VP Data-Driven Graphics (Bar, Pie, Line) 1.1 VP Local Draft Printing 1.0.1 VP RemoteCom 1.1.2 (disks 1 and 2) -Ryan

21 years, 2 months

2
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PDP11/23 - prompt?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP11/23 - prompt? > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.u-net.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:53:41 +0100 (BST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Jun 15 2005, 19:25, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > >> If it is possible that I don't have the original bootstrap - can >anyone >> send it to me via email? > >You may have the original, but if so it's disabled. "two eproms with >green labels and nothing written on them" is unlike any originals I've >seen :-) If you do want originals, go to > http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DECROMs/ and download 23-339E2 > and 23-340E2. > >> > You need to carefully inventory your boards and determine what you >> > have. >> >> I have: >> - CPU (M8189) >> - RAM (M8067), 128k*18? >> - RAM (8059), same size? >> - Floppy controller M8029 >> - Emulex SC02/C RK06/07 compatible SMD disk controller (for my Ampex >> hard drive) >> - 2 * M8043 (4 serial ports) >> - 1 unknown Plessey interface card, P/No. 701775 (What's that ?) > >I can't find the Plessey list I'd bookmarked so I can't say what that >is :-( > >However, that SC02/C accounts for the "$" boot prompt, and either the >EPROMs on the KDF11 are disabled or have been replaced in order to >support the SC02. DEC didn't support RK06/7 on QBus so none of the >standard bootstrap ROMs support it. The SC02 has its own, however, >although it's very simple, and that's what you're seeing. It will >expect a simple two-letter mnemonic (DM for your emulated RK system) >with an optional unit number (eg "DM", "DM0", or "DM1"). > >Interesting number of serial lines on there. 8 on the DLV11-Js, and >two on the CPU (one of which is the console, as you've clearly >discovered). I'd guess this used to run RSX-11M. Or uRSTS or RT11/TSX, or even RT11 and did data collection. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale > From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:02:43 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>>>>> "Allison" == Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> writes: > > >>> From what I remember (very blurry now) DEQNAs were known to > >>> corrupt > >> data. That was very obvious on VAXclusters, which is why VMS > >> eventually took them off the supported device list permanently. > >> But it's an issue for any application (except, *maybe*, when > >> running TCP since the TCP layer checksum may help -- or may not, > >> it's not that strong...). That applies just as much for PDP11s. > >> > >> paul > > Allison> No they _could_ corrupt data, not they did all the time. > Allison> The differnce was the error rate was not what DEC wanted for > Allison> transactions. The VAX people put pressure to not have to > Allison> test the data as LAVCs (Local Area VAX Clusters) were > Allison> popular to a point and required a very high level of data > Allison> (code!) integrety. The frequency of the failure was related > Allison> to the traffic level on the local loop. > >"pressure not to have to test the data" -- hm. That's an interesting >way of looking at. The way I would look at it is that ALL DEC network >protocols put the responsibility for data integrity in the network >devices; NONE of them had upper layer checksums the way TCP does. >That's why DEC Ethernet bridges always had end to end CRC. And that's >why DEC insisted on 32 bit CRC for Ethernet -- 16 bit CRC isn't good >enough at those data rates. The expectation (and probably the >expressly stated requirement, though I don't remember for sure) is >that Ethernet NIC devices were required to deliver that level of data >integrity to the host. > >So in fact the QNA was failing to deliver the data integrity that >everyone expect it to deliver. The VAXcluster people were the most >vocal and had the most pull, so they were the ones who actually had >the power to say "we will not accept that device". But plenty of >other people cheered when that happened. Certainly the network >architecture group, responsible for standards, did. > That's about the story. One little bit was that doing a checksum was really a CRC and the code to do that apparently was slow on uVAX. They didn't want the impact of that in the OS driver when hardware could do it far faster. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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New Bounties: TI Personal Consultant Plus and M1 Expert Shell ($$$)

by KParker＠workcover.com

Hi Sellam - I've emailed a friend of mine who is not on this list who used to work for TI as one of their Service Managers - he thinks he can help - I've given him your email address. ++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Consultant WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 m: 0418 806 166 e: kparker at workcover.com w: www.workcover.com ++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2005 8:04 AM To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: New Bounties: TI Personal Consultant Plus and M1 Expert Shell ($$$) I am currently seeking the following software for a client: Texas Instruments Personal Consultant Plus (tm) expert shell (circa 1987). M1 Expert Shell (circa late 1980s). Both of these expert systems are PC-based. If you have either of these, please contact me privately. This is a bounty so there's a cash reward! Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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PDP11/23 - prompt?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 15 2005, 19:25, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > If it is possible that I don't have the original bootstrap - can anyone > send it to me via email? You may have the original, but if so it's disabled. "two eproms with green labels and nothing written on them" is unlike any originals I've seen :-) If you do want originals, go to http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DECROMs/ and download 23-339E2 and 23-340E2. > > You need to carefully inventory your boards and determine what you > > have. > > I have: > - CPU (M8189) > - RAM (M8067), 128k*18? > - RAM (8059), same size? > - Floppy controller M8029 > - Emulex SC02/C RK06/07 compatible SMD disk controller (for my Ampex > hard drive) > - 2 * M8043 (4 serial ports) > - 1 unknown Plessey interface card, P/No. 701775 (What's that ?) I can't find the Plessey list I'd bookmarked so I can't say what that is :-( However, that SC02/C accounts for the "$" boot prompt, and either the EPROMs on the KDF11 are disabled or have been replaced in order to support the SC02. DEC didn't support RK06/7 on QBus so none of the standard bootstrap ROMs support it. The SC02 has its own, however, although it's very simple, and that's what you're seeing. It will expect a simple two-letter mnemonic (DM for your emulated RK system) with an optional unit number (eg "DM", "DM0", or "DM1"). Interesting number of serial lines on there. 8 on the DLV11-Js, and two on the CPU (one of which is the console, as you've clearly discovered). I'd guess this used to run RSX-11M. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

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PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:56:28 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 6/15/05, Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> No they _could_ corrupt data, not they did all the time... >> The frequency of the failure was related to the traffic level on the local loop. > >So then, in the modern era, putting a DEQNA on its own switch port >(i.e. - a tiny collision domain) should increase data reliability? Wouldn't hurt. I have a few Qbus boxen here only one has a DELQA, the rest are DEQNAs most rev-E and a few rev-J. They work. I've run a LAVC under VMS5.4 using them along with a few 3100s and nothing ever spit up or died. Would I rather a DELQA, yes, but I'd not refuse a working DEQNA. Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
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Registry for terminal DA responses?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote: > Uhh, registry? Yeah, right. Well, the International Standard document clearly calls for one. It says "a register to be established", though, and I guess that has never been done. > You can start your own registry, I guess. I'm willing. But then I would need ISO to appoint me as the registrar. Hmm, maybe I should give this a serious thought. Any idea whom to approach? After all, the standard calls for a registry and one does not exist. Similarly to how ISO had appointed ECMA as the registrar for ISO 2022 escape sequences (now it's some other organisation in Japan), IFCTF could maintain the registry for DA codes. > If there was one, it was at > DEC and only held the codes used by terminals that DEC produced. All DEC DA responses have the 3/15 private marker after the CSI, indicating that all following parameters are private and have no global significance. ISO clearly intended, on the other hand, to have a global registry. If you have a code assigned from the global registry, you can send it in responses without a private marker. No one else can then legitimately return the same response, and anyone receiving that response would have every right to assume it's your product. Private parameters (what DEC used) do not guarantee interoperability: vendor A can define ?1 to identify one of its products, but another vendor B would have every right to define ?1 to identify one of *its* products. > You do realize, there were terminals that weren't VT100 compatible (at > least in their native mode), like Wyse 50/60 terminals, ADM 3/5s, IBM > 3151s, Televideo 925s, ... They didn't do the "CSI c" command; they > might have had a "DA" method, but I'm doubtful it was the same as what > DEC did. DA (CSI c) is not a DECism, it's a feature of the International Standard ISO 6429. Yes, of course there are terminals that don't care about ISO 6429 and implement their own completely different escape/control/whatever sequences, but they are not relevant to this discussion. I'm talking about the standard mechanism for identifying a particular implementation of ISO 6429 among all others in the Universe. > Any reason you don't want to use the (so-called) "ANSI" vt-100 type > sequences or those from, say, a vt525, for your 'termainal application'? The product I'm designing follows ISO 6429, which is the successor to ANSI X3.64 that you are referring to. VT100 is one implementation of the standard, mine will be another. DEC is one manufacturer, HEC is another. My implementation of the standard will be very close to DEC's, but not identical. I'm deliberately not writing an exact VTxxx emulator since I want to do a few things differently. The main area of difference is character set handling. I have made a proper implementation of ISO 2022, whereas DEC has made some horrible kludges apparently to make it "user- friendly" in their perverted sense. I'm talking about the horrible mess with multinational vs. national modes, keyboard variants and typewriter vs. data processing keys, kludges that have no place in an ISO 2022 terminal. MS

21 years, 2 months

2
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[GreenKeys] Rock and Roll Teletype 'experts'

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > A bit later, but I have a set of 6 books entitled 'Modern Electrical > Engineering' which I estimate date from between 1910 and 1920. These > contain a description of the Baudot telegraph system with diagrams of the > machinerey, circuits for the 'Quadruplex', etc. It appears to have been > well in use by then. > > Said books also contain a description of a lovely electromechanical FIFO > system used to store train descriptors on the London Underground (and its > associated binary to 1-of-n decoder) ... which I suppose are still in use in the New York subway :-) **vp

21 years, 2 months

2
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MITS 8800B CPU Board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: MITS 8800B CPU Board > From: "Randy McLaughlin" <cctech at randy482.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:30:56 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj at wps.com> >Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:24 PM > > >> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Allison wrote: >> >>>> di ; everyone shut up, please >>>> lxi h, epromstartaddress ; EPROM address >>>> lxi d, epromstartaddress ; likewise, I'm sure, >>>> lxi b, 2048 ; BC=EPROM size >>>> ldir ; whirl! >>>> in 0 ; disables EPROM >>>> ... >>>> >>> >>> Only one detail... the proposed cpu was 8080 (MITS 8800B)! >> >>> Horrid as it's mixed 8080/z80 code. >> >> >> Oh whatever -- it was an explanation, not a hex image for you to burn! > >There were plenty of Z80 assemblers that used Intel mnemonics with Z80 >extensions and the code is correct for them. The first great Z80 assembler, >TDL is a good example. I use a couple of them TDL included. I happen to like the intel flavor z80 opcodes. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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The collecting world is starting to take Notice of US

by mokuba＠gmail.com

If you're still actually somewhat interested in this, I'd be more then happy to provide the neccisary development skills :) On 2/2/05 8:55 PM, "Michael Nadeau" <menadeau at comcast.net> wrote: > The publisher limits the amount of material from the book I can post. The > bigger problem for me is a lack of time and Web development skills. > >> "Computer Collector Newsletter" wrote: >> >>> Mike Nadeau: it's time for an updated edition to "Collectible >>> Microcomputers" >> >> Actually, all he needs is a web site with the current prices. The >> information and pictures in the book are never going to change. >> >> Paul Pennington >> Augusta, Georgia >> >> > >

21 years, 2 months

1
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cctalk Digest, Vol 22, Issue 32

by dieymir＠yahoo.es

> > Message: 35 > Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:50:59 -0700 (PDT) > From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> > Subject: how to image pre dos 2.0 disks (?) > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <20050613035059.97966.qmail at web61016.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Winimage has beem doing a pretty good job until now, > but it chokes on some really early stuff. It also > doesnt like some diagnostic programs, that are not > recognized as FAT. And you also cant, to my knowledge > dump an image to a disk differing from the original. > Any suggestions? > CP/M fans use a DOS program named 'Teledisk' to make floppy images, maybe this works for you (I never used it). If you have access to a *NIX-like OS (Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, ...) you can try the 'dd' utility. Hope this helps. ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m?s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

21 years, 2 months

1
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MITS 8800B CPU Board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: MITS 8800B CPU Board > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:12:04 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>From: "river" <river at zip.com.au> >> >>Hi, >> >>Thanks for your replies. I found the relevant information. >> >>I have an extensive inventory and can source the parts and get this poor, >battered board back to its old self again. However, looking through the doco I >noticed that the 8800B requires a display/control and interface boards. A >question for those of you that own a MITS8800 - does it need those boards for a >turnkey system? Can I plug the CPU board into the backplane and run it without >the d/c and i/f cards, assuming I set up the ROM and RAM cards for the system? >If not, (since I do not have the d/c and i/f cards) I'll have to try and build >them from the cct diagrams I have obtained. This is do-able (but a lot of work) >if I can get my hands on some blank S100 w/wrap boards, but I noticed there's a >1702 EPROM chip and I'd need to get the memory map for this chip to burn my own. >> >>Failing that, and it's all too hard and bothersome for me, is there anyone that >would need a repaired 8800 CPU card for trade or anything similar? >> >>rgds >>river >> > >Hi > It should work on a turnkey. Almost everything goes >through the S100 bus. Only the direct connect of the >data bus goes directly between the panel and the CPU board. >I don't think that is needed. You will have to have code >residing at address 0000. This is not common. Most >expected a working front panel that could load a boot >address. > Some ROM boards have a way to be at 0000 after reset >and then switch to someplace else once things are booted. > Don't give up on it. When there is a will, there will >be a way. >Dwight Yes, you will have to have rom at 0000h though and Mwrite was derived and delivered from the front pannel if memory serves. So that means ram will have to be set up to not require Mwrite. Either that or you will have to through something small together to create Mwrite. As to mapping rom out once operational, thats a later problem. It's fairly easy to do. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale > From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:28:02 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>>>>> "Allison" == Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> writes: > > Allison> Actually depending on OS and general usage the critical > Allison> factor for the DEQNA was not rev but, is it functional at > Allison> all? Most of the DEQNAs I've touched and used either worked > Allison> or were dead, rev was a minor issue save for certain OS > Allison> support issues. One of the REV issues was that the more > Allison> reworked versions tended to have more failures (IE plain old > Allison> dead) resulting from greater amounts of handeling and > Allison> use/abuse. For Q-bus 11s the DEQNA was an acceptable > Allison> device. > >>From what I remember (very blurry now) DEQNAs were known to corrupt >data. That was very obvious on VAXclusters, which is why VMS >eventually took them off the supported device list permanently. But >it's an issue for any application (except, *maybe*, when running TCP >since the TCP layer checksum may help -- or may not, it's not that >strong...). That applies just as much for PDP11s. > > paul No they _could_ corrupt data, not they did all the time. The differnce was the error rate was not what DEC wanted for transactions. The VAX people put pressure to not have to test the data as LAVCs (Local Area VAX Clusters) were popular to a point and required a very high level of data (code!) integrety. The frequency of the failure was related to the traffic level on the local loop. The second level of that was plain product improvement. The DEQNA was a dense board with a low MTBF (errors excluded) and field support and board costs were high. Replacement (supported [aka endorsed] by the VAX folks) was a desireable thing if the new card was more robust [higher MTBF and fewer "bugs"]. I was part of the uVAX side of things as the products I was involved with (LPS40 and LPS20 network printers) used an embedded microVAX and the LPS40 inparticular was a complete BA23 sans disks and netbooted from host VAX. It was "interesting" string of events. Such was the fun of being there. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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MicroVAX-II IAPX86 Assembler and Utilities Package

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

Cleaning up here and just cames across this ; MicroVAX-II IAPX86 Assembler and Utilities Package VMS backup format. P/N 483967-001 Version 4.3. By Intel. Comes on CompacTape. Untested but looks unused. Anybody interested ? I also have : VAX/VMS-MICROVMS V4 MUP TK50 (2x) VAX/VMS V4.6 BIN TK50 VAX/VMS V4.6 BIN TK50 MANDATORY UPDATE and ME8002 VAX RDB/VMS MULTI V4.1 16MT9 ME8007 VAX RDB/VMS V4.1 STANDARD16MT Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com

21 years, 2 months

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PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje at pdp11.nl> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:09:17 +0200 (MEST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Allison wrote: > >> Actually depending on OS and general usage the critical factor for >> the DEQNA was not rev but, is it functional at all? Most of the >> DEQNAs I've touched and used either worked or were dead, rev was a >> minor issue save for certain OS support issues. >I have about 20, and they're all OK. Screwy, but OK. > >> One of the REV >> issues was that the more reworked versions tended to have more >> failures (IE plain old dead) resulting from greater amounts of >> handeling and use/abuse. For Q-bus 11s the DEQNA was an >> acceptable device. DELQAs while nicer were scarcer. >I don't think that *now*, DELQA's are scarcer. They may have >been at the time, but not now. Nope. DELQAs appeared as Qbus was becomming less common (AKA microVAXen) and many of those when the DEQNA was retired it was because the uVAX had been too. Qbus uVAXen were often replaced by 3100s and other non-Q systems. Field circus was also slow to replace them with DELQAs unless the DEQNA had failed or was at issue for OS or other misfunctions. Bluntly FS was cheap and one of the last profit centers. By shear force of numbers there were never as many DELQAs as DEQNAs manufactured. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale > From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:40:19 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>>>>> "Julian" == Julian Wolfe <Wolfe> writes: > > Julian> I wasn't aware of this. Are you interested in the 11/23 box > Julian> if they are a suitable revision? > >Sorry, I should have been clearer. No, I'm not -- my point was that >when you're posting information about the hardware, DEQNA rev is a >pretty significant piece of data. (That's usual, I think -- typically >things weren't so badly broken earlier on, and it certainly was quite >rare for there to be anywhere near that many revisions. But the DEQNA >designer was an unusual character, to put it very politely.) > > paul Actually depending on OS and general usage the critical factor for the DEQNA was not rev but, is it functional at all? Most of the DEQNAs I've touched and used either worked or were dead, rev was a minor issue save for certain OS support issues. One of the REV issues was that the more reworked versions tended to have more failures (IE plain old dead) resulting from greater amounts of handeling and use/abuse. For Q-bus 11s the DEQNA was an acceptable device. DELQAs while nicer were scarcer. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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PDP11/23 - prompt?

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi, I am just getting a PDP11/23plus. The CPU is already at home and I have powered the machine up. Makes noise, turns fans, etc. If I start the machine (running indicator lit) it gives me a dollar sign ('$') prompt which seems to accept two character until it starts a new line. Here a few (perhaps totally stupid - but I've never used such a toy before) questions: What's that? What can I do from there? Is it normal? My machine lacks harddisk and floppy (at the moment, they have not arrived yet). The monitor program (@-Prompt) seems to work correctly. Regards, Philipp :-)

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8s and -10s

by drb＠msu.edu

> Speaking of the CDC and its PPU's... > > Does anyone have software to use on the 6600 emulator? > Has anyone put one of these machines onto VLSI? You might be interested in the goings-on at: http://www.60bits.net/ De

21 years, 2 months

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PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

I wasn't aware of this. Are you interested in the 11/23 box if they are a suitable revision? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:47 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PDP 11/23 PLUS system for sale >>>>> "Julian" == Julian Wolfe <(FireflyST)" <fireflyst at earthlink.net>> writes: Julian> Two DEQNA Ethernet controllers What ECO level? DEC went all the way to L on the DEQNA before finally giving up on it. The late ones work fairly well; early ones are quite evil. (DELQA is always preferable, though...) paul

21 years, 2 months

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Dodgy IBM PC Convertible power supply

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com> > ---snip--- >The power connector (barrel type) had a bit of oxidation on the contacts >which I tried to clean and scrape away. I got a fair amount off of it. I >never thought to check the voltage coming out on the other end of >connector, but I'll do that tonight. > ---snip--- Hi Try putting a little silicon grease on the connectors and plug/unplug it several times. ( note: not heat sink grease ). Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8s and -10s

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Al> I suspect that the driving force for tools (esp in TOPS-10) Al> inside DEC came about because much of the software development Al> inside of DEC for other CPU families until they converted to Al> VAXen was done using cross-development tools on their internal Al> timesharing systems (MACY11, etc.) ... Don't know about the others, though I have my guesses about RSX -- but in the case of RSTS at least, software development was "native" not later than 1975 or so (RSTS/E V5B). == The time frame I was really thinking about was '65 -> early 70's And RT11 development probably was hosted on RSTS at some point. (So was OS-8 support, on an 11/60, since it could run PDP-8 code very fast thanks to the WCS option.) == I'm sure Megan knows all the gory details of that. This is also the first I had heard that Richie's PDP8 microcode was actually used for product development.

21 years, 2 months

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What is a DEC VT-61/T ?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

From memory, they are used with DEC's typesetting system (DECset) They were commonly used by newspapers.

21 years, 2 months

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CP/M serial disk image transfer.

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>Hi Dave Hi Dwight, > I have used the serial port to transfer information >but once I have the basic core working, I just transfer >files. If it is a binary file, I've used Intel Hex >format and DDT to save to a binary. I agree that it is not difficult to transfer individual files to and from CP/M if you are familier with the tools ... in this particular case, I need to archive and transfer 50+ complete disks ... This is from a rather obscure system that was used in a Canadian university, and a museum in Toronto wants exact copies of the disks. This program provides that, and will be MUCH less work for them to recreate the disks (one command/disk instead of multiple commands to transfer dozens of individual files per disk). > It would be interesting to compile a web page with all >the different tricks used to handle the various image >and file transfer problems of these older systems. Things >like how to connect a 8 inch disk or a little source >code that shows how to do console to disk transfers using >the CP/M bios. One could include things like my H8/H89 >image transfer program and my Olivetti M20 disk image >building code. I have code from another fellow to move >Polymorphic disk images from a Poly 881x to a PC with >xmodem( windows supports ). I've got a "Disk/Software images" section on my site where I have begun to put all of my tools for backing up and restoring diskettes. This includes 4-5 tools that I have created for various systems, as well as a number of other tools that I have used. I also have quite a few simulators available which sometimes can really help with building that first system disk. I think it is an excellent idea to collect all of these tools together into a single resource. If you have material to contribute, please forward it to me. Or if you (or anyone else) would like to put together a site more specifically oriented to transfer/archive techniques, please feel free to use the material from my site. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

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DEC Ultrix 32 ver 3.2 manuals available

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Sellam, do you happen to know how many manuals DEC Ultrix 32 is? I might be interested if it is not too many as shipping costs would otherwise be killing me. And is he willing to put the effort in shipping outside the US? - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: woensdag 15 juni 2005 11:25 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: DEC Ultrix 32 ver 3.2 manuals available > > > > I know a guy who might have a set of DEC Ultrix 32 ver 3.2 manuals > available. He's retrieving them from a client of his in Long > Island, New York. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll > put you in touch with him. They won't be free, but then I don't > think they will be pricey either. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade > Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > >

21 years, 2 months

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DEC Ultrix 32 ver 3.2 manuals available

by vcf＠siconic.com

I know a guy who might have a set of DEC Ultrix 32 ver 3.2 manuals available. He's retrieving them from a client of his in Long Island, New York. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put you in touch with him. They won't be free, but then I don't think they will be pricey either. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 2 months

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Norsk Data Nord-100 haul!

by toresbe＠ifi.uio.no

A few days I was picking up an IMSAI with Nico de Jong who was in Norway, to send it with him to Fred van Kempen. So, we drive to Minnesund, and stop by to withdraw money in Eidsvoll. While driving the ATM, I spot a bin behind a building while driving. He parks halfway and we go each way. While he's busy not finding the ATM, I check out the bin and to my utter utter shock, instead of the x86 junk which constitutes the absolute majority I find a ND-110/CX Compact!! It's... ...it's upside down. OK, just tip it over. Of course, it's on the bottom, so I remove ~8 screens, and pull the bin apart. Roll the Nord into the car with nontrivial effort, and bring some of the terminals. (OK, all but one ;) Get it home, get weird looks and remarks, some of them deserved, get the machine in. Shaking, I plug in the power cord. And attempt to power up. After gaining a basic understanding of the workings of the controls, I twist the key. Workage! No smoke or anything. hook up the console. 17.42.24 16 MAY 1999 SINTRAN III - VSX/500 K ENTER It actually boots! Given the treatment it was given to get it home, not to mention the treatment that made it end up upside down in a dumpster, the (reportedly extremely fragile) SCSI disks surviving is no less than a miracle. OK, so ISTR the user being SYSTEM. PASSWORD: Crap. Even though I'm on the console... no go. OK, call a friend who used to work at Norsk Data and now has a significant stock of spares (I might get to hit him up for an ethernet card! And maybe even a ND-5850 CPU!!). He comes around later that day with some special floppies only ND employees had, and reveals the password: "MARS". I can only speculate that this was a part of a monthly password change routine ("Mars" is Norwegian for March) :) The CPU has been changed with a Nord-120/CX (without telling ND, their docs still say it's an 110). I believe the CX means Commercial eXtensions, an extra set of instructions like the PDP-11's CIS. And I'm in! And about 10 minutes later, the terminal dies!!! ARGH!! I'm starting a separate thread about that. Also, I got an Apollo 400. I don't know much about these. Might put it up for trade. OK, so the porn is at http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~toresbe/nd (That page is under active construction!). Also images of Fred van Kempen's IMSAI with me posing with the trophy at http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~toresbe/imsai :)

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8s and -10s

by aek＠bitsavers.org

It seems to me that they could have made the -10 line real mainframes (no, IBM and the BUNCH did not consider the -10 line real) with just a little effort and not much money. -- DEC through the 'golden age' didn't go after that market. They tried to target scientific rather than corporate computing. If you look at the sales numbers of their 36-bit systems, they were tiny compared to Univac, Burroughs, and IBM. The engineering and field support costs required to compete with the big iron companies to the level that big-iron buyers demand would have consumed all of DEC's resources at that time (through the mid-70s). One of the things that isn't talked about much is how the PDP-6 just about killed DEC because of all of the resources it consumed to get it out the door. They did eventually abandon their 'fan base' to go after the corporate market, and that was the beginning of DEC's downfall.

21 years, 2 months

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WangEmu 2.0 released

by frustum＠pacbell.net

After two years of on and off doinking, I've finally released version 2.0 of my Wang 2200 emulator. There are a ton of changes, but the most significant ones are emulation of the 2200VP CPU (2nd generation CPU with microcode in RAM), emulation for printers, option for using the original character set, 2.5x faster CPU emulation, an OSX native version, and myriad bug fixes/improvements. Binaries and source are available from the emulation page. The 2200 web site: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/wang.html The emulation subpage: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/emu.html The release notes: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/emu/relnotes.txt

21 years, 2 months

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Procedure For Connecting To The 'net Circa 1978

by elf＠ucsd.edu

Bill Sudbrink wrote: ... <snip> ... > 8) Once the @ character is echoed, press enter. > You should get an error message (I no longer > remember the text). Now type "@O 77<return>". > This instructs the TIP to connect you to the > MIT-DM (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, > Dynamic Modeling) computer. Nitpick: IIRC, I believe MIT-DM was "@O 70". I also connected to 3 other MIT machines back in the day: MIT-ML was #198 MIT-AI was #134 MIT-MC was #236 I connected up through the RAND-TIP, which was limited to 300 baud. There was also the USC-TIP, which supported 1200 baud, but my bank account couldn't support a 1200 baud modem at the time. All 4 of these machines were running ITS on PDP-10s or an SDS/XDS Sigma 7 I believe. "Tourists" (guests) were given free accounts. > 11) I no longer remember how to start up Zork or > some of the other programs... anyone feel free to > provide details I'm missing. I think it was as simple as running the command :ZORK ...but it has been so long since I've muddled around with ITS, DDT, etc. Speaking of muddle, I still have my MDL programming manuals around here (of which ZORK was composed in, originally.) Eric F.

21 years, 2 months

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MITS8800 CPU Board/multibus

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: MITS8800 CPU Board > From: Tom Jennings <tomj at wps.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:43:28 -0700 (PDT) > To: > Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Allison wrote: > >>> Again, thanks for your help. This is my first foray into S100 stuff, >>> and makes a nice change from Multibus. > >I'd swap S100 for Multibuss any day! CP/M-80 on Multibuss is easy >and reliable! > >I wish I had kept my old multibuss box. I always imagine getting >another one, just some 6-slot job with Intel cards and some DSDD >floppy controller. Nice and boring! :-) I have two hurikon multibus Z80 system on a card and two 4slot backplanes plus an assortment of random boards including a BP2190 (48k ram local dma plus floppy controller). That satisfies my multibus cravings. The PS to run it all is linear and huge. I may replace it with a AT PC supply. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8s and -10s

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: PDP-8s and -10s > From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> > Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:41:02 -0400 (EDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Speaking of PDP-8s, and now PDP-10s - a thought that passed my mind: > >Is there a good reason why DEC did not use the PDP-8 architecture in the >PDP-10, for proper channel controllers? Cheap, versatile, sixbit, and when >the KA10 came out, already designed. I would have thought it to be an >obvious "drop-in" solution. > >Any thoughts? > >William Donzelli >aw288 at osfn.org The BOCES/LYRICS machine was a 10/8 combo with the 8I handling the terminal concentrator for the 10. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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