- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by a.carlini＠ntlworld.com

>through 1978. Are these already on-line somewhere or >does someone what to scan them and post them? I had a quick look on Manx (http://vt100.net/manx) and I cannot find anything with "news" in the title. If that is indeed what the title is, then they appear to be not online and sound like they are well worth hving online. The corresponding RT-11 fasicles were called RT-11 Software Dispatch, IIRC - be nice to see those too, in case someone has a pile lurking somewhere! Antonio ----------------------------------------- Email provided by http://www.ntlhome.com/

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Ethan, I can remember (several years ago) my first 6809 kit (bus-based) that had a 512x256 pixel-addressable graphics option. That Euro board was TTL and one littlr PROM for RAS/CAS generation. Originally it had 4116 on them, but 3 power voltages with requirements in the order how they came up (and went away) from the 4116's made me change the 4116 into 4164's. 3-quarter of all the 4164's is not used, but they are single +5V. Works perfect, but I can't remember what I did with the two old 4116 power supply pins. AFAIK is is obvious when you compare the pin of both, at least it was t me at that time. Ah yes, there was also one extra "address" pin, IIRC. Tie that to GND or +5, or put a switch (or software controlled output pin to it) There is your basic "bank-switching"! success, - Henk, PA8PDP. > Also... does anyone know about the differences between 4116 and 4164 > chips enough to answer the question if one could use 4164s as long as > one a) prevents the non-TTL supplies from reaching the chips (modify > board, modify sockets, modify pins...) and b) possibly tie up or tie > down the extra multiplexed address input. Can you refresh 1/4 of a > 4164 and have just that part stay refreshed? I ask because I have a > serious wad of new 4164s from COMBOARD stock, but 128Kw of 4116s > (8 x 12) is more than I have lying around. > -ethan

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

VTSERVER booting

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > >>>>> "Johnny" == Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes: > > > > Johnny> Almost. Non I/D: 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20, 11/21, > > Johnny> 11/23, 11/24, 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/60. > > > > Johnny> Split I/D: 11/44, 11/45, 11/50, 11/53, 11/55, 11/70, 11/73, > > Johnny> 11/74, 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94. > > > > Johnny> Did I forget any? :-) > > > > T-11 :-) > > Isn't that covered by the /21 (strictly the SBC21 -- the 'Falcon')? Well, there are more machines using the T11 as well. > I suppose you could include the Pro 325 and 350 (no I/D, F11 chip) and > the Pro 380 (split I/D, J11 chip). But those will not run normal PDP11 > software, the I/O is totally different I believe. True, the I/O is different, but the architecture is the same, so as long as you have an OS doing I/O for you, you can run the same software. RT-11 can boot on a PRO, and P/OS is a derivate of RSX, so you can run RSX software on it as well. And then we have Venix. And I believe BSD2.9 worked as well. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I picked up more DEC parts from Thom today including several M8350 cards. All I can find out about them is that they're "KA8E posibus interface". Can anyone provide more details? BTW does anyone have any suggestions about cards that I should be looking for? Joe

21 years, 2 months

5
7
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CP/M Software Archive

by mokuba＠gmail.com

Well, it seems I've now got hosting space for said archive! Now, I need software to put up! Don't exactly have a holding place at the moment, so any Method to get me a few pieces to put up to start us off Would be REALLY appreciated!

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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How to tell...

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

Argh, deleted my mails before I remember to answer one. Sellam asked if anyone would be able to tell that Magica (a real PDP-11) have been replaced by MIM (an emulated PDP-11). The answer is yes, and no. The only telling thing is the speed. It is much faster than a real PDP-11/93, which it emulates. But apart from that, I can't see how you could tell. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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PDP11/23+ frustration

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> today I have powered up my Ampex DFR 996 removable/fixed combined disk > drive. After tweaking a bit around the address plug (btw does anybody > have an original one?) I got it to start. It said to be ready only once. > And made a horrible sound with the head of the removable disk. After > that I tried it again but the drive just inserts the head for a short > moment (with the same noise) and retracts immediately, shutting down. sigh... it is a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad idea to just power old removable disk drives up to see if they will 'just work' as you discovered, THEY DON'T, and destroy themselves in the process look at the messages from Tom Jennings about all the trouble he had getting his going over the past few months the disturbing thing about this is 1) you now have a piece of junk that is most likely unrepairable unless you are VERY lucky and can clean the heads 2) you've destroyed the disc pack (which may be difficult to repace) and 3) you've lost whatever software was ON that pack (generally not a huge issue with pdp11s, but is a real loss on some other minis like Interdata) take a look at the logs from the restoration of Paul Allen's PDP-10 for a real horror story about getting drives to run again. http://www.pdpplanet.com/TemplateRestoration.aspx?contentId=8

21 years, 2 months

7
11
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my computers, status

by tomj＠wps.com

Just a quick note on why I've been silent on my DG Nova 4, LGP-21, etc all summer... Basically, summer is car season. I just got a project car on the road, I'm tweaking it now. I also need to service my other vintage object, my 1963 Rambler Classic, which I usually drive every day. Needs transmission overhaul. The LGP-21 is safe in my living room (only vintage gear allowed in the house! it's pretty!), the Nova 4 is in the lab, safe dry and cool, awaiting crappy weather to keep me inside, where I'll find the error in the drive (again). I want to start on the LGP-21 this year. My Nova 4 experience has informed that project, so I have an inkling where to start now on the hardware bring-up. (Though I still don't have one inch of software for it.)

21 years, 2 months

4
6
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Phillips Microcomputers

by marvin＠rain.org

I currently have three Phillips machines, two of one type and one of another (don't remember the model numbers), all with floppy disk drives. They were used in a classified environment and were being scrapped out when I got them. I don't remember if they came with any software, but I suspect not, and unfortunately they came with no documentation. The two machines are about 24" x 24" x 24" and the single one is kind of a desktop unit with the floppy and monitor built in. If anyone is interested, let me know and make a reasonable ... or unreasonable :) ... offer but realize *I* will not package and ship them. > > True. But other computer makers of even lower stature have shown up > > on the CC list, and in bitsavers. Apart from the big ones, it seems > > to be just a random process that determines which machines appear and > > which ones do not. For example, I can't think of any other reason why > > Varian would show up in Al's archive and Philips would not... > > I doubt there were ever more than 100 Phillips machines in the US at any > given time. Perhaps in Europe they were more popular, but here they were > effectively not even a tiny speck in the minicomputer industry. > > William Donzelli > aw288 at osfn.org

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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LF: Siemens FDD 100-8 (8" FDD) door latch button

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Anyone got a dead Siemens FDD 100-8 ? I need the door latch button. This is the little square buttom which has the LED in it, and a catch to hold the drive door down when it is closed. I'm resurrecting a system with this drive, but the catch is broken off - it works fine if you hold the door closed. Anyone got a dead drive that I can scarf a button from? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

DSD-440 software

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I just got my DSD-440 cleaned up, checked out, and attached to a machine this weekend, and it seems to be working fine. (Thanks, Joe!) What I don't have is the diagnostic disk that shipped with it. According to the DSD-440 user guide, the disk came with FRD440 as both a standalone utility and as an RT-11 program, FRD440.SAV. I'd like to have the bootable disk, if anybody has one they can copy, but I'd be very happy with just the RT-11 program. Thanks! Doc

21 years, 2 months

6
10
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VTSERVER booting

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje at pdp11.nl> wrote: > On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > Almost. > > Non I/D: 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20, 11/21, 11/23, 11/24, 11/34, > > 11/35, 11/40, 11/60. > /05 is /10, /21 doesnt exist (== Falcon SBC), /35 is /40. > /15 I believe was a special-case /20 ? The 11/05 - 11/10, 11/15 - 11/20 and 11/35 - 11/40 all have about the same relationships. The first was the OEM version, while the other was for end customers. Same CPUs, sometimes different standard options installed. The Falcon actually is called the 11/21 in some documentation. > > Split I/D: 11/44, 11/45, 11/50, 11/53, 11/55, 11/70, 11/73, 11/74, 11/83, > > 11/84, 11/93, 11/94. > > > > Did I forget any? :-) > M70, M100, M110 :P Those don't count. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

DSD-440 software

by shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com

> the DIP switches don't work reliably any more This is a problem with lots of 20+ year old DIP switches. They were barely reliable when they were new. I generally replaced with newer, high-quality (not 49cents!) DIP switches. Tim.

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Are you a specialist or a generalist?

by river＠zip.com.au

Hi, Just wondering if you regard your classic computing skills as specialised or generalised? Do you have lots of various old systems with different processors and architectures, or do you specialise in a particular processor, architecture or system? I regard myself as a generalist, mainly due to the various different systems I have. I gues I just don't have the time to get extremely close and personal to one particular system. That doesn't mean I don't know my various systems, but I'm sure that someone who has devoted their time and energy to one type of system would know more about its finer details and nuances than I would. rgds river

21 years, 2 months

5
4
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DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Can anyone provide more details? M8350 is the interface from the Omnibus to the positive (TTL) I/O interface first used in the PDP8/I. It is used to interface to the rack of modules style interfaces. There is a related Data Break (ie. DMA) interface card M8360 As I suggested before, you want to watch for the 8/A RL interface card The RX8E floppy card intf part number is M8357 http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/hard8e/modules.html for a list of modules. Again, watch for cables. Omnibus cables are useful, as are the over-the top board connector blocks. Omnibus cables LOOK like Unibus cables (but they aren't...) Easiest way to tell is Unibus cables have a section of the paddle edge connector fingers connected together with a big PCB trace

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

VTSERVER booting

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> wrote: > >>>>> "Johnny" == Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes: > > Johnny> Almost. Non I/D: 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20, 11/21, > Johnny> 11/23, 11/24, 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/60. > > Johnny> Split I/D: 11/44, 11/45, 11/50, 11/53, 11/55, 11/70, 11/73, > Johnny> 11/74, 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94. > > Johnny> Did I forget any? :-) > > T-11 :-) Well, that's a specific CPU, and not a PDP-11 system. If I were to do it by CPUs instead, it would be KA-11, KB-11A, KB-11B, KB-11C, KB-11D, KB-11E, T-11, F-11, J-11, and probably a few more that my brain fail to feed me right now. > Most of the ones you listed have no MMU at all, so "not applicable" > would be more accurate for those. Most and most... The ones without MMU is the 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20 and 11/21. I realized I forgot the 11/04 by the way. Also without MMU and without split I/D. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

1
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Still Available for free

by James＠jdfogg.com

> > I still have a Tandy 1000 with monitor and printer, several IBM XTs > > and IBM ATs, some Corona luggables, and some Compaq luggables. > > To help move them along, the Tandy 1000 is an interesting > machine. I'm not sure about the straight 1000 model, but > variants of the 1000 have DOS and even DeskMate (Tandy's > windowing environment, which I believe was a tailored version > of early MS windows) in ROM. Original IBM PC XT and AT > machines are getting difficult to find (especially ATs, which > it seems weren't produced in the same numbers as earlier > models) and the Corona's are significant because IBM > successfully sued them for copyright infringement for > basically copying the ROM code verbatim and using it in their clones. Where are these? I'm in the market for a PC, PC/XT or PC/AT. Also looking for a Compaq Portable III.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

DECD Unibus Music board?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: DECD Unibus Music board? > From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:59:37 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > I found one of these today. Can anyone tell me anything about it? > > Joe Interesting. I have a Qbus sound board, AKA gigilo. Wonder if they are similar. Mine has two GI sound chips. Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

DSD-440 and/or drive recommendation for PDP-8

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I'm looking for a drive for my PDP-8 but I don't want something the weight and size of a RK-05. I also have several DSD-440 drives available to me. Does anyone know if these can be used on the PDP-8 or have any experience with them? Does anyone know what kind of controller they need when used in the 8? Or does anyone have a suggestion about what other drive can be used with the -8? I realize that the DSD-440 or other drive may not be original for the -8 but I just don't want to deal with something the size, weight and unreliability of a RK-05. Joe

21 years, 2 months

5
6
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DECD Unibus Music board?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I found one of these today. Can anyone tell me anything about it? Joe

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

My classiccmp non-retirement :-)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

And I will still endeavor to take care of the PDP-10 software archives, the DECUS PDP-11 and PDP-10 collections, etc. It's been years since any software was donated to those archives so I haven't put a lot of effort into them. But it's good to know that there a are a couple of PDP-10's around the world that are now usefully "up" thanks to the archives. -- I need to see about completely cloning trailing-edge. There were a few cgi scripts there that made using wget difficult when I tried to copy it to bitsavers. I've made a few attempts to break into the professional archiving world w.r.t. digital media, but so far I've been universally ignored. Of course, those who ignore me would rather just talk about the problem rather than solve it. So maybe that's why I don't register on their radar. You have seen and probably will see me rant and rave on this subject occasionally! -- Given another 10 years it won't be an issue, since after the next round of corporate failures/mergers there won't be any old software to recover, and as you've discovered, people don't seem to be very concerned about recovering/preserving what exists now. I've been ranting for a while now that people are saving the iron, but not the software that ran on it. It's surprising how little is even left from late 60's IBM 360s (incl the systems themselves), which was the most popular large computing system, and how MUCH has been saved from DEC (thanks to the efforts of collectors and CHM). I'm starting to think that there is going to be a pretty strange view of computer software in the future, since there is so MUCH that was saved from DEC, and almost nothing from Burroughs, UNIVAC, NCR, and Honeywell (the last member of the BUNCH, CDC, seems to have a fair amount saved, though)

21 years, 2 months

12
15
0 0

Zax ICD-378 Z80 Debugger

by shirsch＠adelphia.net

Does anyone know where I can find documentation and/or software for a Zax ICD-378 Z80 in-circuit debugger? Picked one up (for $15.00!) at the MIT Flea Market today. Any leads appreciated! Steve

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

PDP11/23+ goes on

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP11/23+ goes on > From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:30:01 -0700 (PDT) > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > > >> What is the "modern way" to get software into the PDP11? > >I use a ZIP drive and a Qbus MSCP disc controller. > >A software-only solution (though much slower) is to use the >TU58 simulation software that is around Trust me it's faster! I've run both. The software needs to run at 19.2k or faster to be realistic. Allison

21 years, 2 months

4
4
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My classiccmp non-retirement :-)

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote: Hi, Tim. Long time no see... > And I will still endeavor to take care of the PDP-10 software > archives, the DECUS PDP-11 and PDP-10 collections, etc. It's been > years since any software was donated to those archives so I haven't > put a lot of effort into them. But it's good to know that there a > are a couple of PDP-10's around the world that are now usefully > "up" thanks to the archives. Yes, well I'm basically lurking as well. Most of the world ignore me, so I tend to keep a bit to myself. I do have some new software that I could contribute in the RSX world atleast, if you're interested. Oh, and I don't know if you saw my mail on info-pdp11, but Magica (the 11/70) is occasionally online, but we've also moved all data to a simulated PDP-11 which is online 24/7, including all accounts. That machine in Mim.Update.UU.SE. Just send me a mail if you want in and have forgotten your password. For everyone else (who might not know this) Update is a computer club at Uppsala University, who have been running a PDP-11/70 online for over ten years with free guest accounts. Last year we had to stop running it full time because of money cuts from the University. The machine is still there, and just need to turn a key to be online, but it's at odd times right now. So we received a donation from Dbit of a E11 license. So we're finally back online with a PDP-11 running RSX full time. A guest account exist, with the username GUEST, and password GUEST. If people don't abuse it, it will stay this way. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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New Scientist article on retro computing

by jcwren＠jcwren.com

<URL: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7536 >

21 years, 2 months

5
7
0 0

Hitachi rescued

by aw288＠osfn.org

I rarely post rescues, but this one was quite an effort, and I must thank Dan Cohoe for being such a great help. This Saturday, Dan and I pulled a Hitachi AS/6 model 2 mainframe from a well hidden junkyard in Ontario. The AS/6 is not complete - the memory (storage) and some I/O is missing, but the basic processor is intact, albeit a bit grungy. The AS/6 was a IBM S/370 clone, made in the late 1970s to compete with the 303x line of machines from IBM. According to some old mainframers, the machine was roughly equivalent to an IBM 3031, or as another put it, an S/370 model 168 with "crap channels". Four cabinets were removed - all five feet tall, the first is a standard 30 inches long, and basically contains the front panel and a floppy drive. The next two cabinets, both 60 inches long, contain the processor. The third cabinet, also 60 inches long, contains the channel to channel adapter plus the interconnects to the long departed memory and I/O "wings" (the AS/6 was originally an enormous T shaped machine). Each cabinet is quite full, each with three-deep gates (swingout cardcages). The boards are fairly small, and are made of mostly stock 10K ECL chips. The power units are 415 Hz fed, of course. I have no documentation, so the chances of getting this running are extremely slim. Everything is fairly well marked, and the small boards are not horribly hard to trace, but such an effort would likely take years. The lack of the memory box is not a huge deal - the AS/6 had only 8 megs, although it probably is quite wide, and may have had several independed banks for faster fetches. The lack of I/O is more of a concern - it is hoped that some channel hardware is intact. Also, the lack of the microcode floppy is bad, but there is always hope. Also rescued was a full string of ca. 1972 3330 Merlin disks (DASDs). These are all in poor condition, and may never run again. A 3505/3525 card reader and punch combination was also pulled out. These will need to be rebuilt, but very likely will run again. William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Slightly (ok, maybe more than slightly) OT: Old Yellow Book CDs

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Mailing lists were available in all sorts of machine-readable formats >from the 1960s-on, most commonly on 7 or 9 track reel tapes. Many other types of public records were also available, but it's just not a commonly known thing these days. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Timothy Hotze Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:52 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Slightly (ok, maybe more than slightly) OT: Old Yellow Book CDs Hi, My name's Tim Hotze, some really long term members with archives that go way back may find that I used to be semi-active here years ago. Now I'm working with a cultural policy group at the University of Chicago, and I'm part of a project that is using (amongst other sources) Yellow Book data. Whic his great for this year. And even great for last yeah, when we have data. Its not great for 1996, or 1992, or any other year - we can't find electronic data from previous years; websites are updated continually. Libraries that I've searched have this years, maybe last years, but don't keep any older data available. So here's where I think you guys may be able to help.... as I recall >from my days of hunting garage sales, there's a lot of chaff with the wheat. I also remember there being published Yellow Book or business listing CDs in the 1990's - especially before the dot-com era. I wanted to know if anybody can remember these, if anybody has seen them around lying with 486s that you don't want to find when you're really looking for an IMSAI or Apple II, and, while I'm at it, if maybe anybody knowsi f any older form of this kind of business data that was in some kind of machine-readable format? I'm really sorry for making my 1st post back an off-topic one, but I've contacted everyone that publishes yellow page books without success, or, appearant knowledge of well, anything, when I've gotten a reply at all, and this was the best lead I could think of. Thanks so much, Tim

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Multitech Microprofessor available

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Folks, Had a mail from someone who has a complete working MPF1 for sale. He doesn't mind where it's shipped as long as you pay the shipping, and its power supply is 110V. Contact him at edvardsens at yahoo.co.uk Ta. -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

BBC Computer Literacy Project

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Just been contacted by a chap who's doing a paper on the Acorn BBC micro and the BBC Computer Literacy Project of the early 80's. He's mainly interested in the politics of the whole thing though, rather than the technical side - and as he points out this isn't really well documentated anywhere as the enthusiast websites typically focus on the hardware / software. In the few cases where there are 'stories' on the 'net they seem to be just that, without any supporting original documentation or being fist-hand from BBC / Acorn employees of the time. Thought I'd ask here on the offchance there are any people lurking who were involved in the project or who have documentation from the time covering the chain of events that led to the BBC Micro... cheers Jules

21 years, 2 months

2
3
0 0

My classiccmp non-retirement :-)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

True. But other computer makers of even lower stature have shown up on the CC list, and in bitsavers. Apart from the big ones, it seems to be just a random process that determines which machines appear and which ones do not. For example, I can't think of any other reason why Varian would show up in Al's archive and Philips would not... -- Varian was actually in the top 10 of minicomputer makers for a short time in the early 70s. I have almost nothing on non-US computer systems. Those sorts of things never show up here. I've picked up a few things on Ferranti though auctions. It IS a 'random' process of what software and documentation can still be found. I also wanted to mention since people have been offering newer manuals lately that I've been limiting what I've been putting up to pre-IBMPC era (early 80's) and mostly non-consumer computer documentation. There seems to be decent coverage of the consumer stuff elsewhere, and the workstation war era stuff is a bit too new.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

No body wants this vaxstation 3100 M76 in M38 case?(ebay)

by vax9000＠gmail.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=5782002532 a M76 with M38 case.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly (ok, maybe more than slightly) OT: Old Yellow Book CDs

by hotzet＠uchicago.edu

Hi, My name's Tim Hotze, some really long term members with archives that go way back may find that I used to be semi-active here years ago. Now I'm working with a cultural policy group at the University of Chicago, and I'm part of a project that is using (amongst other sources) Yellow Book data. Whic his great for this year. And even great for last yeah, when we have data. Its not great for 1996, or 1992, or any other year - we can't find electronic data from previous years; websites are updated continually. Libraries that I've searched have this years, maybe last years, but don't keep any older data available. So here's where I think you guys may be able to help.... as I recall >from my days of hunting garage sales, there's a lot of chaff with the wheat. I also remember there being published Yellow Book or business listing CDs in the 1990's - especially before the dot-com era. I wanted to know if anybody can remember these, if anybody has seen them around lying with 486s that you don't want to find when you're really looking for an IMSAI or Apple II, and, while I'm at it, if maybe anybody knowsi f any older form of this kind of business data that was in some kind of machine-readable format? I'm really sorry for making my 1st post back an off-topic one, but I've contacted everyone that publishes yellow page books without success, or, appearant knowledge of well, anything, when I've gotten a reply at all, and this was the best lead I could think of. Thanks so much, Tim

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

New Scientist article on retro computing

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

He has been talking with Al Gore again. ;) Dwight >From: "J.C. Wren" <jcwren at jcwren.com> > >How could that be? From the headline: "10:30 19 June 2005" > > --jc > >'Computer Collector Newsletter' wrote: > >>I guess you didn't notice that I posted the same link on Thursday. :) >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] >>On Behalf Of J.C. Wren >>Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 8:47 AM >>To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >>Subject: New Scientist article on retro computing >> >><URL: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7536 > >> >> >> >> >

21 years, 2 months

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BBN TC2000 rescued (was: May need help with rescue in RI)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Great news, Tom!

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VTSERVER booting > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje at pdp11.nl> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:52:22 +0200 (MEST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison: > >Tried to reply off-list, but got this: > > (reason: 550 You are not permitted to send mail. Please visit >http://www.verizon.net/whitelist to request removal.) > >and I sure as hell will not fill out Verizon forms just to be able >to send one of their customers email... > >--f Fred. I have no clue as to what is going on. Mail here works fine and there is no blacklist setup I'm using or have invoked. The only thing I could guess at is your domain is a known spam address or has been associated somehow with one. FYI: the address is a j p 166 @ v e r i z o n . net remove spaces. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VTSERVER booting > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje at pdp11.nl> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:45:14 +0200 (MEST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, Allison wrote: > >> >No. 2.11 **only** runs on SPlitID systems. For non-ID systems, >> >use 2.8, 2.9 or (perhaps) 2.10. Ultrix-11 runs on all of these, >> >by the way. AND is fully supported by VTserver, as I maintain >> >both :P >> >> Ok. I only run V2.7 as unix without networking is limited >> usefulness to me. I'd considered 2.11 on the 11/73 but never >> got to it. >V2.7 of what? > >--f The current version I have operational is V2.7 on 11/23 or the 11/73 depending which one is hooked to the RL02. I have one RL02 and two RLV21s. I've considered putting up V2.11 on the 11/73 but haven't as of yet. My PDP-11 collection includes one of every Qbus CPU from LSI-11 to 11/73 in some form of operational backplane. I generally use RT-11 V5.01C though. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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PDP11/23+ goes on

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP11/23+ goes on > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:51:57 -0700 > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > >The RQDxx controllers are a bit clunky to use with their >breakout panel if you aren't putting it into a box designed >for it. Use the brakout designed for the BA123 to breakout a RQDX. Just put the breakout card in some unused but powered slot (last ore beyone the last) and it will be powered and expand to multiple drives. I have my 11/73 with the 18/AB backplane that way. >I still say that the simplest thing to do is just to find >a used Qbus MSCP SCSI conroller though.. If you can find >someone scrapping Qbus microvaxen, they often have them >hiding inside (that's where I got the ones that I have). It is. The problem with QBUS PDP-11 IDE is that I've not seen a design that has a DMA implementation which make it slow. Also drivers for common PDP-11 OSs other than unix are roll your own, wich is possible IF you already have a working system (with editors and asm). What makes the Qbus interface for IDE nasty is the PDP-11 read before write. That means you have to make the read addresses seperate from the write addresses. However, in the last few years there is the possibility of a flash ram disk as devices in the multimegabyte range are available. Qbus non rotating media, hummm. There one for the builders to consider. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Are you a specialist or a generalist?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Are you a specialist or a generalist? > From: "river" <river at zip.com.au> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:53:12 +1000 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Hi, > >Just wondering if you regard your classic computing skills as specialised or > >Do you have lots of various old systems with different processors and > >I regard myself as a generalist, mainly due to the various different > >rgds >river Line breaks? I am a generalist, with focus. I have just about one of each micro or more and a large assortment of systems. I focus on CP/M based, Omnibus pdp-8e/f/m/a, Qbus PDP-11s and deskside/desktop VAXen (UvaxII, uVAX2000 and 3100s). The focus is based on hardware size and OSs represented. However, I do go off and dabble in 1802, TI9900, 8048/9 and other things that aren't comnputers. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VTSERVER booting > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje at pdp11.nl> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:34:03 +0200 (MEST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, Allison wrote: > >> >I'm not 100% sure if it's your problem, but 2.11BSD doesn't work on the >> >F11 chipset (11/23) because it doesn't have split I&D space. You'll >> >need to use 2.9BSD or earlier on it. >> > >> >> There are two versions of 2.11 if memory serves one with split >> I&D and one without. >No. 2.11 **only** runs on SPlitID systems. For non-ID systems, >use 2.8, 2.9 or (perhaps) 2.10. Ultrix-11 runs on all of these, >by the way. AND is fully supported by VTserver, as I maintain >both :P Ok. I only run V2.7 as unix without networking is limited usefulness to me. I'd considered 2.11 on the 11/73 but never got to it. >> I know the Falcon, LSI-11/ and 11/2 did not even have MMU. >Correct, all T11 based systems, plus the /20, /10, /03 and I >believe the /04 dont have MMU, and are 64K systems. That was a statement on my part as I've designed with the T-11 and have the full internal DOC set for that. FYI: the T-11 implmentation in the VT24x added a MMU like the 11/23 sans PDR/ACF. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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DSD-440 and/or drive recommendation for PDP-8

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: DSD-440 and/or drive recommendation for PDP-8 > From: "vrs" <vrs at msn.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 21:45:19 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >> From: "vrs" <vrs at msn.com> >> >(It's easily doable, but not trivial.) >> >> Heres the trick. Don't copy the parts, copy the logic and use >> standard TTL. Most all the functions are easily available or >> or sometimes available in denser (newer relatively) parts. >> Trying to copy verbatim will be hard unless you have a lot of >> DEC junker cards to strip. However most of the logical functions >> are simple so substitutions are not as scary. > >Heh, I did that, but I shot myself in the foot by using the denser parts and >not quite getting it right. > >Mine is actually a Posibus card (Ethan has the other prototype). There are >other problems with Omnibus cards, too. You can get the bus interface close >to spec., but not dead on, AFAIK with modern parts. Posibus is more >forgiving. (Though you can get close enough for small Omnibus backplanes >pretty easily.) > > Vince I'll limit myself to Omnibus, experience there. Posibus and older machines I've only done programming on. It's not as dire as you'd expect. There are a few characteristicts that must be met. Input current, lower is ok and newer devices are good there. CMOS as inputs must be used with care as they have to switch with a postive swing of under 3V(omnibus, any TTL/DTL interface.). The next is output drive, most newer devices exceed those. Last is output switching characteristics such as Vol at load current, again thats easily met wit newer devices. What may be a bit worrisome is that new devies sink harder on the bus and a small (10-50ohms) series resistance will damp any ringing that results. However, once your off the bus (core card logic) you can do as you please as the system doesn't see it. Use care on decodes to avoid spikes, timing races and other logic faults that can occur when using mixed speed logic. Generally good care will avoid this. The last area. Power and gound busses. Since there is a lower likelyhood of having the DEC protocards any board constructed should use good power distribution rules (better than PdP-8 days as newer is faster!). The rest of the details are in the DEC logic handbooks and PDP-8 handbooks. They are your friend, or try to be. ;) Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Looking for data sheet for AY5-2376

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

Mike: Thanks very much for the data sheet. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Holley Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 4:24 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Looking for data sheet for AY5-2376 > Does anyone have a PDF copy of the data sheet for the General > Instruments AY5-2376 ASCII keyboard encoder chip? > > Rich Cini I have a 4 page version of the SMC KR-2376 on my SWTPC CT-1024 web page. It was used in the SWTPC KBD-5 keyboard. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/KR2376.pdf Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley

21 years, 2 months

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Chippewa Falls Museum visit

by ljw-cctech＠ljw.me.uk

I managed to take some time off during my visit to Minneapolis to get to Chippewa Falls Museum of Industry and Technology. It was an easy 2-hour drive, and the museum opens at 1pm on weekdays. This trip had the air of a pilgrimage for me, since I still have a Cray-1S architecture manual I ordered from them c. 1981 and I've always wanted to see where they came from. Chippewa Falls is a tiny place, and I had no trouble finding the museum (though the street it's on is currently closed off for work). I only had an hour or so there, as I had to get back to my flight later that afternoon. The museum director, Yvette Viets Flaten, is very enthusiastic about her Cray exhibits. It also turns out that her mother comes from Northampton, not far from where I live (and Chippewa Falls also had a show manufacturing industry, just like Northampton). Complete CPUs they have there (AFAIK all except the X/MP are Cray designs): CDC 160A CDC 1604 CDC 6500 CDC 7600 Cray 1 Cray X/MP Cray 2 plus various other exhibits, including a ERA magnetic drum unit and Seymour Cray's desk. You can walk around them all, and in many cases there are samples of the internal boards removed for closer viewing. There are some videos on show, but I didn't have time for those. I took a few photos, but they haven't come out too well, so I suggest anyone interested look at: http://www.spikynorman.dsl.pipex.com/CrayWWWStuff/Cfaqmustop.html http://csumc.wisc.edu/gallery/album74 It really is worth a visit, if only to see a collection of the fastest machines of their time. I think if you're travelling some distance you might be able to ask nicely and visit out of hours. I'm hoping to get back there in a month or two for a better look. One thing Yvette is after is a circular sliderule (as Cray apparently used), does anyone here have one they could spare for a good cause? There is a site with details at http://www.cfmit.org/ -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VTSERVER booting > From: Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 20:06:17 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I'm not 100% sure if it's your problem, but 2.11BSD doesn't work on the >F11 chipset (11/23) because it doesn't have split I&D space. You'll >need to use 2.9BSD or earlier on it. > There are two versions of 2.11 if memory serves one with split I&D and one without. I have to check but fuzzy memory says 11/23 had I&D or was that later with the J11? I distinctly remember the MMU of the 11/23 as being software compatable with 11/34, 11/69 and 11/70 (to the limits of Q18 or Q22). I know the Falcon, LSI-11/ and 11/2 did not even have MMU. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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DSD-440 and/or drive recommendation for PDP-8

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: DSD-440 and/or drive recommendation for PDP-8 > From: "vrs" <vrs at msn.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 21:19:21 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Even if you don't have an RX8E its a trivial board >> easily copied. > >I don't know about trivial (I am trying to do one). There are a lot of >unobtainium parts in an RX8E that have to be designed out of a modern clone. >(It's easily doable, but not trivial.) Heres the trick. Don't copy the parts, copy the logic and use standard TTL. Most all the functions are easily available or or sometimes available in denser (newer relatively) parts. Trying to copy verbatim will be hard unless you have a lot of DEC junker cards to strip. However most of the logical functions are simple so substitutions are not as scary. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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DSD-440 and/or drive recommendation for PDP-8

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: DSD-440 and/or drive recommendation for PDP-8 > From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 21:24:04 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > I'm looking for a drive for my PDP-8 but I don't want something the >weight and size of a RK-05. I also have several DSD-440 drives available to >me. Does anyone know if these can be used on the PDP-8 or have any >experience with them? Does anyone know what kind of controller they need >when used in the 8? Or does anyone have a suggestion about what other >drive can be used with the -8? I realize that the DSD-440 or other drive >may not be original for the -8 but I just don't want to deal with something >the size, weight and unreliability of a RK-05. > > Joe The DSD440 is unknown for PDP-8. I've always seen them on PDP-11s. The best and easiest disk for PDP-8 is a RX01 (or RX02) Floppy drive and RX8E board. Thats nice as it was supported and easy hook up and repair. Even if you don't have an RX8E its a trivial board easily copied. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Several comments on crashed drive in PDP-11/23

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Several comments on crashed drive in PDP-11/23 > From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 23:57:17 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >>I downloaded and ran the TU58 simulator on my PC, then booted RT11 off >>that. I then created a bootable RT11 system disk and used the floppy to >>boot. Then I could mount blank images in the TU58 simulator and copy >>files from the PDP11 to the PC. Then you can use the PUTR utility to >>extract files from the images on the PC into standard PC files. >> >> >Jerome Fine replies: > >If you have a 5 1/4" RX50 floppy drive on a real DEC PDP-11, >then it is probably much faster and easier to prepare >the floppy on the PC with PUTR in the first place. If >the floppy is 8" and SSSD (RX01), then I understand that >a PC can also have the same, but I don't know if PUTR >can also handle 8" SSSD floppy media on the PC. In any >case, I have no experience with 8" floppy media on a PC. It's possible to do RX01, but RX02 format is beyond what the 765 based PC clopped controller can do. RX02 is not the common style of DD format. To do SD format you need to do a fair amount of work and likely a older or even XT PC to insure the FM mode at 8" data rates is available. Easier shot is the RX50 (SSDD, 96tpi). >I am certainly NOT saying that a TU-58 is a bad solution, >only that other solutions are often better if they are >possible. If the only way to start is with a TU-58, then >it is certainly better than nothing. Bob, of spare time gizmos did it right. 8051 with 2 256kB rams to look like a TU58. Save for one difference. The seek time is way faster! Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Small Dumb Editor SDE

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

Hey, does anybody remember SDE, an editor for RSX-11M? SDE stood for Small Dumb Editor. It worked on VT100's only, and it really was tiny. I used it at Lawrence Berkeley Lab in the early 1980's on a PDP-11. It might have come from DECUS, but I haven't been able to find it on the decus archives online. Any info appreciated. I'd like to get a copy. thanks brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian at quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com

21 years, 2 months

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PDP11/23+ goes on

by aek＠bitsavers.org

For a real DEC Qbus PDP-11, the RQDX3 controller and an RX50 floppy drive might be an alternative. -- There are literally dozens of Qbus cards and vendors for disc and tape (Dilog, Emulex, et al.) with RL/RK/RM or MSCP emulation for MFM ESDI or SMD discs. Some of the less popular ones go fairly cheap on eBay. There has, of course, been talk off and on about IDE boards for Q and Unibus for a long time now. The RQDxx controllers are a bit clunky to use with their breakout panel if you aren't putting it into a box designed for it. I still say that the simplest thing to do is just to find a used Qbus MSCP SCSI conroller though.. If you can find someone scrapping Qbus microvaxen, they often have them hiding inside (that's where I got the ones that I have).

21 years, 2 months

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DEC PDP PROGRAMMING STATION...pdp8/a, LOWER PRICE!

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

FYI, <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5210358381> BONUS...use Buy It Now and I'll include a Decwriter to complete your work station!

21 years, 2 months

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PDP11/23+ goes on

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> What is the "modern way" to get software into the PDP11? I use a ZIP drive and a Qbus MSCP disc controller. A software-only solution (though much slower) is to use the TU58 simulation software that is around

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi again, after removing all other cards from my 11/23+ my serial console seems to work error-free. Now I can bootstrap the copy utility which comes with vtserver. I can also copy something onto a formatted diskette. When I copy from diskette to the virtual tape, the copying seems to ignore the disk's end... is that correct? I simply tried to copy the copy binary itself to an rx02 and boot that. Did not work. I verified the disk contents i put on it - they're ok.... I also have tried the 2.11BSD stub which came with vtserver (boot.dd, disklabel etc). Boot.dd gave me only A LOT of: > Trap in Boot,illegal instruction at loc Trap in Boot,illegal instruction at loc Trap [...] Continues several screens and then the cpu hangs (still running) after outputting > ....instruction at loc Trap in Boot,illegal?Q?Q`?Wf? What have I done wrong? Where can I get more information about different boot roms, bootstrapping the 11/23+ and my RX02 drive (nothing on bitsavers...!?!)? What does the (which one?) boot prom put where and where does it start execution etc.? There must be cool docs which I don't know yet.... Regards, Philipp :-)

21 years, 2 months

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HP info and corrections

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Finally, I've typed out the DIO bus pinout from that HP9826/9836 Pascal system manual that's on bitsavers (this being the piece of info that's going to be the most useful to me at the momnent). -- http://www.blobulent.com:16080/hp300/peripherals/ have a few interesting scans, like the schematic for the 98625A SCSI interface.

21 years, 2 months

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HP info and corrections

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A few things relating to HP machines, particularly the 9845 that I'm working on. Firstly, a correction about dismantling the tape drive (this also applies to the 9825 drive that Sellam was working on). I mis-remembered how the motor is fixed -- the screws don't go in from the bottom, they go in from the top (cartridge side), go through the chassis and tap into the plastic disk that holds the motor. Two of them are obvious, where you'd put the cartridge. To get to the other two, you have to remove the head (outside 2 screws on the mounting block, this shouldn't muck up the alignment) and remove the microswitches (tape inserted, write protect), again 2 screws, but the actuating pins fall out, so be careful. When you've done that, it's easy to remove the motor. Secondly, the keys do seem to work as I dsecribed, with one correction. There are 2 lopps through the torroid, and there is a magnet that affects the magnetic properites of that torroid, and thus the coupling between the wires. But the magnet is normally near the torroid and moves away when you press the key. Makes sense, I would have guesed that the magnet saturated the torroid and reduces the coupling between the loops, so this way, uou get a signal when the key is pressed. Thirdly, if you're working on the keyboard encoder board, note that the keyboard controller chip (with a custom number on my board) seems to have the same pinout as the chip in the HP250 (schematics on bitsavers). The LM311 comparator (8 lead TO99 case) is nothing to do with detecting the return pulse from the key matrix, it's used as a relaxation oscillator for the contoller clock. The return signal is detected by a couple of transistors in the CA3046 array (long tail pair circuit). Finally, I've typed out the DIO bus pinout from that HP9826/9836 Pascal system manual that's on bitsavers (this being the piece of info that's going to be the most useful to me at the momnent). If anybody wants this (a plain text file) to avoid downloading/reading the whole pdf, I can post it here. -tony

21 years, 2 months

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DEC collection rescue...Dallas, Tx]

by tponsford＠theriver.com

For some reason, I don't see this posted after sending, so my apologies if this was posted in the meantime. This was from the comp.sys.dec newsgroup. this morning. Anybody in Dallas? > I am going to get rid of 7 or 8 VAX 6400 and 6500 machines, including > many spares, some SF-200/900 storage, and alot of other doo-dads. Some > machines have DSSI, some CI. Some have BI bus. > > All were removed from computer rooms. Most recently, a pair of hevily > loaded 6410's with BI and SF900 fresh from Sony's decommissioned fab > in San Antonio. > > Have also a couple three top-load 9-tracks like the one on the right > in this picture: > http://blues.uab.es/~enllac/enllac7/ForaOrbita/microvax.jpg > > and 6 LA120's or LA-120-like DEC consoles. Several boxes/lots of old > dec parts also. > > What's my best bet for getting one entity to come take them all, in > one lot, load them up and move them out? > > Bring two bobtail trucks with liftgates, and a couple big boys to help > load. > > Located in Dallas, Texas > > (I suppose this might be of more interest to a reseller, even if they > live on as parts, but they have to go, and I can't bear to push them > to the curb, if you understand.) > > I also have, on separate deal, about an 8' high stack of VAXstations > and storage expansion as well as about a 6' high stack of > lunchbox-style microvax 2000 stuff like this: > http://world.std.com/~mbg/mv2000f.jpg > > also CRT's for the vaxstations, extra parts, pedestal-type vaxen like > this: > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/images/vax4000_4_5_600.jpg > and Q-bus boards and keyboards, VT terms, etc. > > also, much 'classic' PC stuff, very old PC/XT laptops, and enough > parts to carry you through the apocalypse after which VMS and DOS will > be the only two things still running. > > All must depart. No time for ebay. > > -- > rest begards, > Patrick Jankowiak > > - reply to r e c y c l e r AT s w b e l l DOT n e t

21 years, 2 months

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Several comments on crashed drive in PDP-11/23

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> wrote: Hi. > > RSX (don't know if the other OSes do the same) write a special boot block > > on non-bootable disks. This boot block basically just prints the above > > message, and halts. All that fits fine into 512 bytes. > Aha. I also have an RSX-11M license..... But no media or a clue how to > get it into my machine. Media is usually on TK50 or 1/2" tape. > >>What is the "modern way" to get software into the PDP11? > > Phew. Tape normally. Small, modern PDP11s usually have TK50, and software > > is distributed on TK50. > TK50...??? You might know it under the name DLT. TK50 was the original DLT. It's plain and simple just a tape. > >>Is there anything like a RIM or BIN loader? > > Yes, but that is very old technology. People don't have paper tape on > > PDP-11, and haven't for a very long time. > Hm.... But I'm a paper tape enthusiast..... I just think about giving > the 11 away again - perhaps it's too modern for me..... :-) If you look for old diagnostics, old systems like DOS-11 and the like, you'll find that paper tape plays a role. RT-11, RSX and RSTS/E (as well as Unix) are still current products, still being sold. Of course they have moved on from paper tape. They actually never were paper tape based, even though you have device drivers for that medium as well. > > If you're on a bare system, with only disk drives to play with, then your > > options are limited. > I have a RX02 double diskette drive and a lot of disks.... Well, your problem is one of how to get something in there in the first place. > > The best might actually be to pretend you have a > > TU58, which speaks through a normal serial line, but is a block device, > > which most PDP11 can boot from. > May the original bootstrap code boot from a serial port directly?? Quite possibly. You can probably boot from a number of devices. Which one is selected by a block of switches on the CPU board, or if you talk interactively with the CPU, you tell it which device to boot from. > > Yes. The TU58 is a cheap block device, for which the hardware on the > > PDP-11 side actually is just a serial interface. Most boot roms know how > > to boot from one, and an emulator for the actual TU58 exist. > > The standard ROM in my 11/23+ does not boot from tu58? I would suspect it does. > >>Can I boot RT11 or RSX11 from floppy??? > > Yes. > Ok. that's the point where I try to start. I will make a floppy. Need an > image and then I'll try to put the image to onto a floppy. That can be a problem. How do you get the image onto a floppy before you have a system in which you can access the floppy? > > Oh, and I would probably try to align the drive correctly if I fooled > > around with it. You never know when another pack shows up which you might > > want to read. > > I can't realign the drive because I don't have the alignment tools, > control panel for the drive and an alignment pack. But I did not change > the head alignment when I removed the heads. Left them together without > moving relatively to each other.. Well, if you can't, then you can't. > Does anyone have experience with that "vtserver" program? > It puts it's bootcode into the pdp (via odt) and then the CPU stops. > Sometimes a single 'r' character shows up. And sometimes I see an error > message (non-existent record 13).... > I start to think about a problem with my serial port.... Are there known > issues with the console port? I have tried 300,2400,9600 and 19200. > Always errors. But NEVER while vtserver puts its startup code. Always > after vtserver has started the pdp. Can't help you there. I just play with big hardware, and have tape drives. Never tried vtserver. > And a simple question: How does the addressing in pdp11 work? R7 seems > to be only 16 bit wide. And when I boot up the system, the MMU should be > off and the memory mapping should be direct. How do I access the upper > bits of my PC (i.e. "changing the segment")? Yes. The PDP-11 is a 16-bit machine. There are no "upper" bits to the PC. The PC is plain and simple just 16 bits. Here is how it works. The MMU can be disabled or enabled. If enabled, it can be in 18-bit addressing or 22-bit addressing. When an address is gated onto the bus, it's mapped from the virtual address to a physical address. If you MMU is disabled, addresses 0-157777 (octal) gets mapped to the same physical addresses. Address 160000-177777 gets mapped to physical 17776000-17777777. If the MMU is enabled, the high three bit of a virtual address selects the PAR/PDR register pair used to relocate the virtual address to a physical address. That means your memory is divided into eight pages, and each page can map anywhere in physical memory. In 18-bit mode, only parts of the PAR register is used, while in 22-bit mode, the full content of the PAR is used. To get the physical address from a virtual address, you do: (written in C) (PAR << 6) + (VA & 017777) And the right PAR is (VA >> 13) PAR is also 16 bits. This will tell you that the page will start on a multiple of 64, and that the 6 low bits of a virtual address is unchanged. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

1
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Archiving MFM and RLL drives (Was: Re: Default password for Pick system on an AT?)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I'm not sure, but dd does. As long as you don't hit a bad block.

21 years, 2 months

8
10
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Looking for data sheet for AY5-2376

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 10:09 19/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Dave: > > Yes, this would be a big help as it's two pages more than I have >at this point. :-) Rich, After sending you the SMC datasheet this morning, I dug a bit deeper and found the actual AY-5-2376 data sheet. I can confirm that this is the same pinout as the SMC device, and appears to be compatible. I see that Michael H. has posted a more complete SMC datasheet - that should give you everything you need, however if you wish, I can scan the AY-5-2376 datasheet for you. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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booting and 11/44 via tu58 sim?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: booting and 11/44 via tu58 sim? > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:05:14 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >Hi, > >On a whim (hey, it's father's day :-) I decided to try and boot my >dormant 11/44 from the TU58 using the tu58 simulator. > >Has anyone done this? Functionally it should. last time I did it I used a real tu58 in a lab back at DEC on a reabygosh(tm) 11/44. had to run the DL port slow. >I'm being totally lazy and didn't look at the M7090 schematics (yet) and >assumed the TU58 20pin header is the same as the console 20pin header. >I also assumed it's RS-232 and not TTL. Further, I assumed it was >running at 38400 baud. Both do RS423 (6wire version of RS232, sorta), you will need to verify hookup but it works. >Naturally it didn't work right off the bat... :-) > >I know my serial port and tu58 simulator are working since they boot my >11/730 just fine. > >I'll look at the schematics but I thought I'd ask for any sage advice. > >(luckily my spare UBI board had a DD boot rom on it) > >-brad Run slower, the 11/44 the DL port used typically for TU58 is down the interrupt priority and it can loose data if too fast (overrun). I'd start at 4800 (known good) and then try 9600 or faster. Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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My classiccmp non-retirement :-)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> how MUCH has been saved from DEC (thanks to the efforts of collectors >> and CHM). Is there an index somewhere of the CHM collection, and what parts of it have been recovered? -- Sellam, as software curator, is responsible for that. AFAIK, this is just starting. A few things (TIXO and PDP-1) paper tapes along with some PDP-8 paper tapes have been done. The large collection of 10/20 tapes >from DEC haven't been touched yet. I've been discouraging them >from attempting this until better drives than stock 1/2" drives can be obtained. Lyle's large collection of 8/12 DECtapes need to be read as well.

21 years, 2 months

1
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Looking for data sheet for AY5-2376

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

> Does anyone have a PDF copy of the data sheet for the General > Instruments AY5-2376 ASCII keyboard encoder chip? > > Rich Cini I have a 4 page version of the SMC KR-2376 on my SWTPC CT-1024 web page. It was used in the SWTPC KBD-5 keyboard. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/KR2376.pdf Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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HP 3000?? Thing-a-ma-jig available

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

As part of another deal, I acquired a piece of HP gear I have no interest in (nor do I know for sure what it is). It's an HP 30151A or "ATP Expansion Package". It appears to have 24 modems in it, or serial ports at the least (I haven't popped the cover). Pictures of the unit are at: http://www.ezwind.net/jwest/hp30151A Can someone elicudate what this is and what it's designed to connect to? If it's nothing I can use... it's available for shipping costs. Jay West

21 years, 2 months

5
5
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BBN TC2000 rescued (was: May need help with rescue in RI)

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

First of all I would like to thank everyone who offered to help rescue the BBN TC2000 from Rhode Island. As it turned out (read below) the scheduling of this became a mess and I ended up going alone, but that wasn't because no one offered... I left early in the morning of 6/10 in my wife's '97 Tahoe (w/120k miles) to begin my 900 mile trek to my brother's home in Westford MA. I've made the trip a number of times and when I am driving it by myself, I drive it straight through with a couple of stops for fuel, food, restroom, etc. The drive consists of getting onto I90 and heading east until just before it drops into the Atlantic. All was going well until I had just crossed into Massachusetts and was accelerating out of the turn pike toll booth when there was a "clunk" and the engine reved higher than usual before shifting gears (automatic). Needless to say this got my attention! I took the next exit and pulled off to see if I could determine what had gone wrong. I checked the transmission fluid and it was full and didn't seem to be burned, so I called my brother and gave him the news and decided to continue on. When accelerating, the shift point was still high and there seemed to be problems when going into 4th, so I put it into 3rd and kept it under 65mph. Nervous, I kept track of mile markers so that if it gave out entirely, I could let someone know where I was. Fortunately the trip to my brothers was successful -- woo! Once in my brother's driveway, I determined that in addition to whatever else was broken in the transmission, reverse was now dead as well. Being late on a Friday, no shops were open and being MA, no transmission shops were open on Saturday either. I had scheduled to pick up the TC2000 at 11a on Saturday morning and it was a two hour drive, so it seemed that the only option was to rent a truck for the pickup. As single day rentals of cargo van (a full size van, not a mini-van or moving truck) seemed too expensive from places like U-Haul, checking Enterprise showed that there was a van locally and it would only be around $70 for the day. I signed up online and waited for them to open at 9a Saturday morning. My brother went with me to pick up the van and we were surprised to find that there was in fact a van in the Enterprise parking lot! We were a few minutes early and waited for someone to show up. When they did, we indicated that we were there to pick up the van which we had reserved the night before and that we were impressed that there was in fact a van in the lot. The person told us that they were very sorry, but that one was already reserved and had been for a week and that "they" shouldn't allow reservations of van's online. So much for picking up the TC2000 on that Saturday. I called the guy who was to meet me and he was very accommodating and said to just let him know when I could reschedule. So I perused the yellow pages and decided that I would call AAMCO Monday morning and get them started on fixing the transmission. My original plan had been to pick up the TC2000 on Saturday, go to work at my companies nearby office (I mostly telecommute anyway, so I can work at home or any one of the offices around the country with equal ease), give a presentation to some of the locals on Monday, and return home on Tuesday. This was obviously going to change. After talking to the AAMCO guy bright and early when they opened, I arranged to have them tow the truck in and I went to work. They called me about mid day with the initial estimate and asked if they should proceed with a rebuild, etc. I said yes and asked how many days it would take. The guy indicated that they average about 3.5 days. My week progressed and on Tuesday I talked to the AAMCO guy again to see how it was going. He now had a firm finish time of either the end of Wednesday or by noon Thursday at the latest, so I began rescheduling my pickup in RI of the TC2000 machine. I figured that I would just pick up the truck at noon on Thursday, drive down to RI and pick up the machine, then spend one more night and head home on Friday morning. I talked to the guy I would be meeting and made the arrangements. For some reason I didn't bother to call AAMCO on Wednesday figuring that they would call me if there was a problem. Wednesday came and went and I called AAMCO on Thursday morning to verify pickup at noon. They told me that the technician had mistakenly done some work on another fellow's transmission Wednesday and that mine would now not be ready as planned. I would have to wait until Friday morning. Grr! So I called the fellow in RI again and told him the news. He was very understanding and we arranged to meet at 11a on Friday morning. My brother took me over to the AAMCO shop Friday morning at 8:30a, I paid the large bill, and took my truck, hoping that it was really all fixed and would make the rest of the trip ok. My brother followed me for a way as it was in the direction he was going to his work place and I continued on to RI, arriving at 11a almost exactly. I met the guy and loaded up the machines, packed in a bunch of software (on various tape formats), some documentation, etc. The truck was packed to the gills and as I had been going on measurements as to if it would all fit prior to seeing the actual machine, I was very lucky. I had to remove a piece of trim at the rear ceiling of the truck to squeeze the machine in! Here is the beginning of my web page to document the TC2000... http://www.ubanproductions.com/tc2000.html Again, thanks to my brother for his help, shuttling me around, housing me, etc. and to the people who offered to help rescue the machine. Also a big thanks to the fellow who allowed me to rescue the machine and to my wife and son who I missed for a few unexpected extra days. --tom

21 years, 2 months

1
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Motorola Microsystems 6800 offered.

by innfoclassics＠gmail.com

I posted one of my Motorola Microsystems rack mount 8 bit 6800 computer systems on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5210557139 For those that object to ebay I have second, basically the same, that I can offer directly for similar terms, $75 plus shipping. -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA

21 years, 2 months

1
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Paging s.m.jones

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

If eBay ID s.m.jones is on this list, please contact me offlist. Doc

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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War Games movie

by James＠jdfogg.com

> > I'll never forget the day I saw a beautiful redhead girl walk in to > > Eli's, immediately notice a PDP-8 board and get all excited about the > > bargain find (and she correctly identified it). She had been looking > > for one for *her* PDP-8. I was in love. > > So what happened?? Well, nothing. She was an MIT student and I was just a working geek in the unglamorous field service world. I didn't think the chasm was surmountable and I didn't even try. ---- There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Timex/Sinclair 1000 Tape Loading

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Timex/Sinclair 1000 Tape Loading > From: Tom Jennings <tomj at wps.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:02:17 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote: > >> I'm having a hell of a time getting any program to load, so far I've been >> Totally unsuccessful. > >You're having a vintage experience. This is unfortunately pretty >much how it went in 1980, only there was no mailing list for you >to gripe on :-) > >Audio cassette data systems are notoriously finicky about tape >speed and volume, then cleanliness, etc. > >You also have to hope that when the tapes were made, they were >with fresh batteries (or on AC adapter) and the volume was set >right, etc. It is not only possible, it was COMMON, to make tapes >that were never readable, even once. > >I recall (now, with prodding, ouch) tense >rewind/play/SHIT!/rewind/play/SHIT!/... sessions with my >sole cassette-based storage system. > Actually once I got it right even with the funky MITS ACR it was near everytime. After I dumped that and went to 9600 baud PE (Phase Encoded, fast version of tarbel and a few others). That and going to saturation recoding it was actually near 100% and faster if it did fail. Storage was always never enough, nor fast enough. Bulk random access storage was the holy grail of 1975. FYI: the funkyest device was an old audio echo drum. It was 1.15" high by about 9" diameter with a small AC motor and 20 staggered heads on two tracks. I shimmed the heads to form 5 tracks with two heads (one for read and one for write). The drum was coated with brown oxide and rotated at around 180 rpm (effective "tape speed of ~84ips). I figured it could hold 1kb per track at around 32k baud. It did. I ended up using that a for a few months (till the motor bearings which were poor to start failed.) to store a whopping 10kbyts with an access time of about 400ms. I wouldn't mind finding an old drum again. Allison

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Want to contact Ebay User: Jeffruss

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Jeff Russ is a long time DEC collector in southern Indiana. I visted him years ago. He's another one of those people with a huge collection of software that will get around to reading it when he gets his 30+ year old computers working again, like the guy in Minneapolis with the stash of early 60's CDC stuff that wants to build a museum some day that insists on reading his 7-track 1604 tapes ON a 1604. Jeff did put some PDP-8 stuff up at http://bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp8/papertapeImages/russ.ucs.indiana.edu/ This should also give you a hint where he is...

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive > From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:14:21 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Tygon is the clear tubing you might find in a chemistry lab. >> I don't think the clear stuff at the hardware store is Tygon. Its a brand of Vinyl. I'm the one that posted maybe ten years ago about using Tygon Vinyl to repair the gooey rollers of TU-58 drives. I can say for a fact that those drives so repaired still work fine. The only problem I've found over time is flat spotting if the tape is left in place. Even if it did harden in say five years.. a foot of that is enough to fix a few dozen drives easily and it's widely available in both thick and thin wall types. Allison

21 years, 2 months

3
2
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War Games movie

by dundas＠caltech.edu

Don't know what fast-rewind has to say or where they got their data. The datacenter itself (the CDC computer shown, 3150 or 6600; can't recall now) and some of the supporting scenes were shot at the California State University, Long Beach computing center. I was there at the time (already graduated but hung out there as I had friends there and used the 11/70 not shown). There may well have been other scenes shot in Washington as Rich indicates. John > OK, too much time on my hands...from http://www.fast-rewind.com/ > > "Broderick visits fellow computer geeks at The Academic Computing Center in > Seattle." > > The high school was Snohomish High School in Everett. > > What does anyone know about the ACC? > > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard A. Cini [mailto:rcini at optonline.net] > > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:01 PM > > To: CCTalk (cctalk at classiccmp.org) > > Subject: War Games movie > > > > All: > > > > As I'm watching War Games, there is a scene about 1/2 hour in, just > > after Lightman finds the phone number for the WOPR. He goes to see his > > friends at the computer company to decipher the list of games. > > > > Lightman walks through a datacenter and then to the back room. Do we > > know what company's datacenter that was? > > > > Rich > > > > Rich Cini > > Collector of classic computers > > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > > /************************************************************/ > > > > >

21 years, 2 months

1
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Want to contact Ebay User: Jeffruss

by ICS＠Core.com

Hi, Is there an Ebay User: "Jeffruss" on the list? ,George Wiegand ICS at Core.com

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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My classiccmp non-retirement :-)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: My classiccmp non-retirement :-) > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:27:30 -0700 > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > >I'm starting to think that there is going to be a pretty strange >view of computer software in the future, since there is so MUCH >that was saved from DEC, and almost nothing from Burroughs, >UNIVAC, NCR, and Honeywell (the last member of the BUNCH, CDC, >seems to have a fair amount saved, though) > One the old iron front there are machine like IMP48 I haven't find docs for and History on Cincinati Millichron 2000 and 2100 series (1973ish). >From the software front, I'm the odd egg, I have stuff I haven't cataloged yet. One example is the whole software base for a defunct company that used S100 hardware something like 200 disks. As to archiving, thats a next process. It will take years and employment as it does require money to do it. In the meantime I copy media to other machines and occasionally read/refresh it. Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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Looking for data sheet for AY5-2376

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 07:31 19/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >All: > > Does anyone have a PDF copy of the data sheet for the General >Instruments AY5-2376 ASCII keyboard encoder chip? > Hi Rich, I have a small (2 page) datasheet for an SMC KR2376-xx keyboard encoder which is probably a compatible device (to check, VCC is on pin 1, Ground is on pin 17, and the keyboard matrix connects to 21-31 (inputs) and 32-39 (outputs). As noted above, it's only 2 pages. It gives you the pinout, typical connection diagram, character matrix assignment chart and some waveform charts. If this is of use to you, I can scan it for ya. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

2
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Looking for data sheet for AY5-2376

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: Does anyone have a PDF copy of the data sheet for the General Instruments AY5-2376 ASCII keyboard encoder chip? Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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PDP-8 CPU question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 18 2005, 11:10, Joe R. wrote: > I brought home my PDP-8 yesterday. Nice haul :-) > I also have a question about the diagnostic paper tapes. Does anyone have > a ROM emulator or other way to load the diagnostics without using a PT > reader? Yes, I know there are some SIMPLE diagnostics that can be loaded > from the Programmer's Panal but I concerned about the more extensive > diagnostics. In fact, I'm wondering if anyone has tried burning the > diagnostics into PROMs and installing them in place of the Boot Roms on the > M8317 card. The best way is to keep tape image files, or just plain binaries, on a PC (or whatever) and load them in over a serial line. Have a look at the Kevin McQuiggin's PDP-8 page at Highgate: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ Kevin keeps a mirror of David Gesswein's site which has lots of diagnostics and documentation, but there are more diagnostic tapes on Aaron Nabil's site at www.pdp8.org -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

1
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RL8/a

by aek＠bitsavers.org

BTW, thinking of that RL8A, I have the prints for it... Al, are those on bitsavers? -- bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/ I wish you'd said something a few days ago. Thom send SIX large Gaylord boxs of cables to the shredder yesterday! :-( -- Cables are MUCH more difficult to find than the boards themselves! esp things like the cable that goes from a TD8/E to a TU56

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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War Games movie

by James＠jdfogg.com

> -----Original Message----- > As I'm watching War Games, there is a scene about 1/2 > hour in, just after Lightman finds the phone number for the > WOPR. He goes to see his friends at the computer company to > decipher the list of games. > > Lightman walks through a datacenter and then to the > back room. Do we know what company's datacenter that was? No idea as to the DC, but the story on the streets around Cambridge Massachusetts is that most of the "junk" used to make the film props came from Eli Heffron's & Sons on Hampshire Street in Cambridge. At the time, they sold "stuff" by the pound in piles. As "stuff" aged it got moved to cheaper piles. Eli's was good stuff until lately. You can still get just about any minicomputer/test-gear part you want, but not at bargain prices. I'll never forget the day I saw a beautiful redhead girl walk in to Eli's, immediately notice a PDP-8 board and get all excited about the bargain find (and she correctly identified it). She had been looking for one for *her* PDP-8. I was in love. My favorite Eli score was a TDC Microfiche camera, with lens and film reels for $50.00. Since I worked for TDC I recognized it and parted out the camera to my customers for about $2000.00. ---- There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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War Games movie

by drb＠msu.edu

> "Broderick visits fellow computer geeks at The Academic Computing > Center in Seattle." > > What does anyone know about the ACC? It's probably the Academic Computing Center, at UW Seattle. I can't seem to find a photo to compare with my memory of the movie scene. De

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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PDP-8 CPU question

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I brought home my PDP-8 yesterday. Besides the goodies that I got from Thom for it I also dug around in the stuff that he sold to the surplus store and found MORE goodies. Like a pile of H851 jumpers, a >>16k<< core memory board (and driver/sense board) for the PDP-8, a set of Plessey RK-05 disk drive controller cards for the PDP-8, some DEC PDP-11/34 Programmer's Panels. I also visited Thom and dug through some old GR manuals that he was throwing out and found an Engineering package for the MM8 core memory cards, some docs for the Centronics 300 printer, docs for a Dilog card and more. I also dumped all the GR docs from the LONG three ring binders and I'll keep them and put the long DEC docs in them. Thanks Thom! I'll post a list of the docs as I go through them and see if anyone wants to scan them and post them (Al?). Or I can post them if someone will scan them. (I just do NOT have the time to scan stuff!) Anyway I've been reading the PDP-8a User's Manual and trying to figure out what all I have here and I have a question about the PDP-8 CPUs. DEC offered two different CPUs for the PDP-8, one is the KK8-A which is a single M8315 card. The other is the KK8-E which consist of an M8300 and M8310 cards which are the CPU and an M8320 Bus Loads card and a M8330 Timing Generator card. Can someone explain the differences between the two and why DEC offered two very different CPUs for the 8? Can I replace simply the M8300/8310/8320/8330 cards with the M8315? I also have a question about the diagnostic paper tapes. Does anyone have a ROM emulator or other way to load the diagnostics without using a PT reader? Yes, I know there are some SIMPLE diagnostics that can be loaded >from the Programmer's Panal but I concerned about the more extensive diagnostics. In fact, I'm wondering if anyone has tried burning the diagnostics into PROMs and installing them in place of the Boot Roms on the M8317 card. Can anyone explain the purpose of the small card that plugs into the back of the chassis near the power regulators? It's not mentioned in the User's Manual and I don't even know it's name. Thom says that it controls the power and the machine will be completely dead if it fails but that's all that I know about it. Joe Joe

21 years, 2 months

5
5
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War Games movie

by rcini＠optonline.net

OK, too much time on my hands...from http://www.fast-rewind.com/ "Broderick visits fellow computer geeks at The Academic Computing Center in Seattle." The high school was Snohomish High School in Everett. What does anyone know about the ACC? Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard A. Cini [mailto:rcini at optonline.net] > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:01 PM > To: CCTalk (cctalk at classiccmp.org) > Subject: War Games movie > > All: > > As I'm watching War Games, there is a scene about 1/2 hour in, just > after Lightman finds the phone number for the WOPR. He goes to see his > friends at the computer company to decipher the list of games. > > Lightman walks through a datacenter and then to the back room. Do we > know what company's datacenter that was? > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > >

21 years, 2 months

1
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Bernoulli Box (20 MB)

by mbbrutman＠brutman.com

The general consensus is that the Bernoulli boxes are pretty rugged, so I'll take a chance and save this one. The price is right. I will be looking for the 20MB carts to feed it .. If I can attach it to my PCjr it will make my month ... (Yes, my Jr does SCSI.) Mike

21 years, 2 months

1
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War Games movie

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: As I'm watching War Games, there is a scene about 1/2 hour in, just after Lightman finds the phone number for the WOPR. He goes to see his friends at the computer company to decipher the list of games. Lightman walks through a datacenter and then to the back room. Do we know what company's datacenter that was? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years, 2 months

1
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bunch of 11/84s on eBay

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://search.ebay.com/degital-pdp_W0QQfromZR40QQsojsZ1 $1500 ea ?

21 years, 2 months

3
2
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Great Finds Today

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Got the following manuals today: IBM Functional Wiring Principles April 1960 IBM RPG Debugging Template IBM Reference model 24 Card Punch and model 26 Printing Card Punch IBM 77 Collator Manual of Operation 1955 IBM 46 and 47 Tape-to-Card Punch reference manual digital pdp11 Systems and Options Summary July 1977 with Price insert sheet UNIVAC 1004 card Processor 80 Column reference IBM System/3 model 10 Disk System IBM System/370 model 125 sales pamphlet and price sheets Here's a short list of other items in the haul today: 5-reels of 6250 BPI tapes IBM removal disk pack from a 360 disk unit 5- boxes of 80 column card stock 27- 8" diskettes, some new and some used with programs and data on them Metal IBM gauge card Metal UNIVAC gauge card Over 50 plug wires for wiring boards plus an IBM branded tool for installing the wires 2- IBM hand punches for cards (two different models) There are many other items that I have not sorted yet and will list later.

21 years, 2 months

1
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PDP-8 CPU question

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: PDP-8 CPU question > From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:10:18 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >>>>>>>>>>Some snippage done...<<<<<<<<<< Hi Joe, Welcome to the dark side. ;) The pdp-8 family is the most widely copied archetecture, home brewed and sought after. Its a simple machine that really does put an underscore on less is more. It's a great programming experience and it's IO while very strange by microprocessor standards is one of the simplest yet powerful. If you can find a bare proto board building IO for the -8 omnibus machines is straightforward (as easy as S100, maybe easier!) with DEC docs to lead the way. RE: docs, there are some on line already as well as PDP-8 software including the various "tapes". > Anyway I've been reading the PDP-8a User's Manual and trying to figure >out what all I have here and I have a question about the PDP-8 CPUs. DEC >offered two different CPUs for the PDP-8, one is the KK8-A which is a >single M8315 card. The other is the KK8-E which consist of an M8300 and >M8310 cards which are the CPU and an M8320 Bus Loads card and a M8330 >Timing Generator card. Can someone explain the differences between the two >and why DEC offered two very different CPUs for the 8? Can I replace >simply the M8300/8310/8320/8330 cards with the M8315? 4 quad wide boards with over the top connectors vs one or two hex width. Functionally they are about the same. the 4 board set however is a tiny bit faster. The 4board set is the older PDP-8e/f/m quad style omnibus while the hex are the newer 8A style. > I also have a question about the diagnostic paper tapes. Does anyone have >a ROM emulator or other way to load the diagnostics without using a PT >reader? Yes, I know there are some SIMPLE diagnostics that can be loaded >from the Programmer's Panal but I concerned about the more extensive >diagnostics. In fact, I'm wondering if anyone has tried burning the >diagnostics into PROMs and installing them in place of the Boot Roms on the >M8317 card. You could but only to the extent that you'd then have to copy to core for execution. ROM on PDP-8 is a tricky thing as subroutine calls (JSR instruction) puts the return address at the first word of the subroutine. Hard to do that in ROM {yes DEC did have a rom/ram board to fake that.} The upside is with 16k or more of core (which on power down never forgets.) you can load core and copy it around. > Can anyone explain the purpose of the small card that plugs into the back >of the chassis near the power regulators? It's not mentioned in the User's >Manual and I don't even know it's name. Thom says that it controls the >power and the machine will be completely dead if it fails but that's all >that I know about it. Ok that must be a PDP-8a box (hex wide). Its still omnibus (as is the 8e/f/m) but allows for the 8a cpu and other wide cards. That card if memory serves is the sense amp and for the power supply. There are a number of sites for the PDP-8 family on the net. Huge resource. Start with http://www.pdp8.net and from there you find links to a bunch of other sites that are also noteworthy. Good luck, enjoy. Allison

21 years, 2 months

3
3
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Retrochallenge, 2005

by appleto＠gmail.com

Do you depend upon modern computers, or are you a creative spirit who can push the limits of your old hardware in order to fulfill your everyday needs? The Retrochallenge is where you find out. What are these challenges? If you enjoy creating original artwork, music, or programs on your legacy computer, then the creative challenges are for you. The second challenge is simply using a qualifying computer through the month of July, in a competition to see can survive a month without the latest in gadgetry. The third challenges judges how well you could communicate with the outside world on a retrocomputer. If you would like more information, please visit http://desnoyers.org/retrochallenge I also found a similar competition for people who like writing tiny (!) programs for 8, 16, and 32 bit micros: http://ffd2.com/minigame/

21 years, 2 months

25
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Timex/Sinclair 1000 Tape Loading

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Timex/Sinclair 1000 Tape Loading > From: Gary Sparkes <mokuba at gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:00:40 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I'm having a hell of a time getting any program to load, so far I've been >Totally unsuccessful. > >Anyone have any tips or advice they can throw at me? >Would love to hear anything at all :) > First make sure the tape player is on speed. You'd be surprized how many are off by 2-5%. Next volume level may be critical, note that some tape players do not work well if the headphone connection does not load the amplifier adaquately. The tone control if present should be such that there is no high cut (high frequencies are important!). Lastly the head should be cleaned and properly aligned or the high frequency responce will suffer. What I've seen in previous forays into this stuff since 1975. Tape player ills: Weak batteries (slow play speed and distortion). Extremely poor quality machine (just plain bad). Worn heads (no highs at all). Amplifier that was oscillating at ~25+khz due to lack of speaker load and bad design. Tape that was bad, stretched or binding affecting speed. Bad tape, flaking oxide. Bad tape, actually it was blank. Pinch rollers with flatspots. Bad motor, ran slow. Also one that ran fast. Motor noise in audio ouput, bad motor. Motorboating due to bad cap in power supply (on a battery unit!). Unit that had been dropped had bad azmuth alignment on head resulting in no highs and lack of level in general. This can also happen if the tape is not in place and the play button is forced. I've seen heads broken off mounts due to that. Bad earphone jack (no output). One found to have a playback amp so noisy that you could barely hear loud passeages on a music tape at all. Stuck in record! That one runied a few of the owners tapes! One that didn't like a common ground between the mic, motor or speaker(earphone jacks). It would motorboat if that was done. System ills: Input circuit literally blown up. (user plugged in a 12Vac adaptor that had the right connector). Input jack broken free of the board. Input opamp dead (age or random failure). System broke and needed mod (TRS80 LII hangup). Just a few hints there. Likely I forgot a few. Allison

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

"Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote: > >I re-assembled everything and tested it. It had trouble at first: the > >drive would start up but then I'd get error 43 (unexpected BOT or EOT or > >tape error). > > Check your tape! I'll bet that you'll find a spot where the media has > come of the plastic tape and now leaves a clear spot. The EOT sensor sees > the clear spot and thinks that it's the EOT hole. I bet this is what happened. In the following picture you can see the transparent spot that Joe referred to. http://www.series80.org/Articles/DamagedTape-lr.jpg In this case I do not think there is any point reassembling the tape, you are not going to read it with the 9825 tape drive. **vp

21 years, 2 months

3
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Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

The 9825 tape drive is very similar (mechanically) to the HP-85 tape drive, so the following link will give you a couple of hints. http://www.series80.org/Articles/capstan-repair.html I mainly use the first method (suggested by Katie) and I have had very good and consistent results. BTW if you click on the pictures you get larger versions. ------------- Be VERY carefull when disassembling the drive, do not remove the screws that hold the top (black) cover to the base of the tape drive, there are a couple of little parts (plastic balls, I think) that will run away. The first time I took an HP-85 apart, I spent a lot of time hunting these damn parts. Anyway, you should be able to remove the capstan and motor assembly without taking the rest of the drive apart. You may need to unsolder the two little tachometer wires (but in some cases they are simply inserted into the PCB). Good luck **vp

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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PDP11/23+ frustration

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, today I have powered up my Ampex DFR 996 removable/fixed combined disk drive. After tweaking a bit around the address plug (btw does anybody have an original one?) I got it to start. It said to be ready only once. And made a horrible sound with the head of the removable disk. After that I tried it again but the drive just inserts the head for a short moment (with the same noise) and retracts immediately, shutting down. Are there any opinions, spares, help, TOOLS for my situation? I have no clue if I could be able to find a new pair of heads and install them? Who has experience? What about the head alignment procedure? Now I have no software for my machine. No boot floppy disk. No way to conveniently boot the PDP11. Nothing. What to do next? I could start to program the machine via the monitor, like my Honeywell or a PDP8. But I wanted to run an operation system, use harddisk and floppy etc. The harddisk is VERY heavy (80kg?). Was much work to get it here... Has anybody a replacement? Is anyone interested in taking my whole system? Regards, Philipp

21 years, 2 months

3
3
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PDP11/23+ frustration

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I disagree on the alignment requirement. It's needed only for pack interchangability. It's 2005, not 1975, and that probably no longer matters. Use a tape, or ftp :-) -- What you actually want to do is align it to work with the OTHER packs that came with the system! I learned this the hard way a LONG time (20+ years) ago when I discovered that none of the packs we had worked any more after I did a head alignment.

21 years, 2 months

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Torch Computers Ltd PSU available - anyone need a spare?

by listmailgoeshere＠gmail.com

(I tried to send this to cctech a while ago and don't think it ever made its way onto the list - my apologies for the bandwidth if it actually did...) Hi List, I have here a Farnell N110P411 open-chassis SMPSU. On a relay on one end of the board there is a white sticker with the text "TORCH COMPUTERS LTD (C) 1983" and a QC stamp. If anyone would like this (free, you pay shipping) as a spare part or for a repair/restoration, please speak up by private email. I'm having a clearout and I won't be able to keep this for too much longer before it gets recycled. Ed.

21 years, 2 months

1
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Bernoulli Box (20 MB)

by mbbrutman＠brutman.com

I've got a chance to pick up an older (but not the oldest Bernoulli Box). This is a single drive 20 MB unit that appears to the SCSI. There are no cartridges and it is unknown if it works, but the price is right. (Just shipping.) - Is it worth saving? - How are are cartridges to find? - Assuming the worst, is there a Sam's Computerfacts or other technical documentation for this beast? Thanks, Mike

21 years, 2 months

4
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PDP11/23+ goes on

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP11/23+ goes on > From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:24:38 +0200 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >>>I use a ZIP drive and a Qbus MSCP disc controller. > >Sounds interesting. But where to get that MSCP controller?? > >>>A software-only solution (though much slower) is to use the >>>TU58 simulation software that is around > >.... But with it I would be able to boot my machine. At the moment I have >NOTHING to boot up my system, copy disks, transfer data from pc etc... > >But I have a lot (perhaps more than 100) of these 8" disks. > >Can I boot RT11 or RSX11 from floppy??? > >Regards, > >Philipp :-) Yes! You can also boot RT-11 from TU58 (or a simulated one). RT-11 will boot from any block structured device provide there is a driver for it. Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
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Teletypes (was Re: Retrochallenge, 2005)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Al Kossow, did I not give you a copy? nope. I did put some tty manuals up on bitsavers that I had.

21 years, 2 months

1
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Spare BYTEs available

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: Before I resort to eBay, I wanted to post a list of my spare BYTE magazines, by year: 1975: 11, 12 1976: 1, 3, 4, 9 1977: 2, 3, 10, 11, 12 1978: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9 1979: 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 1980: 1, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 1981: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 1983: 3, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 1985: 3, 4, 5, 7, 11, 12 These are available for a trade plus shipping. I'm looking for the following: * BYTEs: 12/76, 1/77, 6/80 (this will give me a complete run from 9/75 to 1/86) * S-100 PROM board that takes EPROMS more dense than 2708s * Altair/IMSAI software * AIM-65 diagnostics ROM * Other??? Please contact me off-list. This grouping of BYTEs will give someone a good head start developing his/her collection. I also have an Excel spreadsheet that has a listing of 700 or so relevant/interesting articles for those maintaining and working with classic computers. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years, 2 months

1
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PDP-8 CPU question

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote: > Anyway I've been reading the PDP-8a User's Manual and trying to figure > out what all I have here and I have a question about the PDP-8 CPUs. DEC > offered two different CPUs for the PDP-8, one is the KK8-A which is a > single M8315 card. The other is the KK8-E which consist of an M8300 and > M8310 cards which are the CPU and an M8320 Bus Loads card and a M8330 > Timing Generator card. Can someone explain the differences between the two > and why DEC offered two very different CPUs for the 8? Can I replace > simply the M8300/8310/8320/8330 cards with the M8315? The KK8A cpu takes a single slot, while you need a total of four for the KK8E, which obviously is an advantage, especially in a small 8/a system, where you only have 12 slots. The KK8E have a 1.2uS cycle time, while the KK8A have 1.5uS. Also, the KK8E can be extended with the EAE option, while the KK8A cannot. The KK8A is also microprogrammed. Might be harder to repair (depending on what is broken) but it might also be a bit more reliable. It probably draws a bit less as well. You can replace one with the other. Instruction wise, they are totally compatible. There are some undocumented stuff that they behave differently on, so you can from software tell which CPU you have, but in normal life, it don't make a difference. > I also have a question about the diagnostic paper tapes. Does anyone have > a ROM emulator or other way to load the diagnostics without using a PT > reader? Yes, I know there are some SIMPLE diagnostics that can be loaded > from the Programmer's Panal but I concerned about the more extensive > diagnostics. In fact, I'm wondering if anyone has tried burning the > diagnostics into PROMs and installing them in place of the Boot Roms on the > M8317 card. The boot roms hold very little data, and they simulate the front panel signals for loading into memory. I think you have a total of 64 words, or something like that. > Can anyone explain the purpose of the small card that plugs into the back > of the chassis near the power regulators? It's not mentioned in the User's > Manual and I don't even know it's name. Thom says that it controls the > power and the machine will be completely dead if it fails but that's all > that I know about it. Not sure what you're talking about here. The power regulators for the 8/a have a card-like connector, which you have the mate for on the rear side of the backplane. I suppose you're talking about those. Otherwise I have no idea. The power regulators are neccesary, otherwise nothing works. The core memory for the 8/a also require some voltages on the fifth slot in the backplane, which don't exist on an 8/e. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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RL8/a

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Joe, something to watch for in the boards are RL8/a controllers M8433 and cables BC80J They show up on eBay from time to time but go for a fair amount there.

21 years, 2 months

3
2
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DEC Docs: the list

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Here's a list of the docs that I picked up yesteday. It does not include anything from the BIG haul Monday. Book 1: Printronix Model 300 Printer Maintenance Manual Printronix Model 300 Printer Drawing Manual Printronix Model 300 Applications Manual Book 2: (Phoenix Drive Manual) Cartridge Module Drive (OEM) Hardware Maintenance Manual: Operation, Installation and Checkout, Theory of Operation, diagrams, Maintenance, Wire Lists; Control Data Corporation (pub number 77683335.) Book 3: same as book 2 Book 4: same as Book 2. (pub number 75888415 covers model 9448) Book 5: same as Book 4. Book 6: PDP8/e, pdp8f & pdpd8/m external Bus options maintenance manual volume 3: DEC Book 7. EDT Editor Manual: DEC Book 8. CDC Storage Module Drive BK6xx BK7xx: Installation and Checkout, Preventative Maintenance, Corrective Maintenance, Diagrams, Wire Lists, Parts Data; Control Data Corporation (pub number 83322310) White Envelope: Printer Operators Manual (2) and shipping papers: Printronix loose: KL8-JA Terminal Control/Syncronous Data Interface Technical manaul, DEC PDP-8 Digital PDP-8/a Miniprocessor User's Manual Machine Language Programming - PDP-8 Appendix E, The RSX-11M I/O Exerciser Timing Control Unit TCU-150: Digital Pathways Model DQ130 Magnetic Tape Coupler Instruction Manual: Dilog (LSI-11 interface to "Industry Standard" 9 track tape drive systems.) PC Maintenance and Troubleshooting: GenRad (Setup instructions for DECpc 433 and MANY interface cards) RSX-11 Utilities Manual: DEC (RSX-11M V 3.2 and RSX-11M Plus V 1.0) MDB-LP11 Line Prtinter Controller Instruction Manual: MDB Systems (Complete manual for interface card) Falcon RAID Sub-System Guide: Falcon Systems Falcon Systems Technical Guide: Falcon Systems B-Series Line Printers Models B300/B600 Operators Guide (3): DataProducts 300 LPM/600 LPM/1000 LPM Accoustic Cabinet Line Printers Maintenance Guide Volume 1: DataProducts RAID Mylex 5FH Product Information: Falcon Systems Corporate Guide: Falcon Systems The RAIDbook, A Source book for Disk Array Technology: RAB Model 4400 T&M (Theory and Maintenance) Manual: Factron Schumberger (manual for the 4400 board test system which is based on a Cromemco S-100 computer and LS ADM-3A terminal) Long Binder #1. DKC8-A Engineering Drawings: DEC (Complete package for 8/A Option 1 (M8316)) BA8-C Drawings: DEC (Complete drawing package for PDP-8 chassis assembly including wiring, PSU etc) MM8-EJ Engineering Drawings: DEC (package for 16k core memory system for PDP-8) KK8-F Field Maintenance Print Set: DEC (package for KK8-F CPU used in the PDP-8. Includes M8300/M8310/M8320/M8330 drawings)

21 years, 2 months

1
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board on the back of the 8/a backplane

by aek＠bitsavers.org

is a G8019 "Power Distribution Board Control" schms on pg 0-61 of bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/PDP8A_Schems_Apr81.pdf

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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PDP-8 CPU question

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I'll post a list of the docs as I go through them and see if anyone wants to scan them and post them (Al?). -- Will coordinate this with you offline. I have a lot of 8 material scanned but not on line yet Can someone explain the differences between the two and why DEC offered two very different CPUs for the 8? Can I replace simply the M8300/8310/8320/8330 cards with the M8315? -- The M83xx set was the original Omnibus CPU (for the 8/e f and m) It is slightly faster than the single-board version. Does anyone have a ROM emulator or other way to load the diagnostics without using a PT reader? -- They can be loaded though the tty interface. Easiest thing to do is hook up a terminal program with unchecked binary download capability.

21 years, 2 months

1
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