- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I visted Thom again yesterday and here's some of what I got. <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/carfull2.jpg> That's two boxs of DECMate and Rainbow docs, a big pile of loose VAX docs, two DSD-440 drives and about five boxs of cards (mostly PDP-8). In other words, another car full! <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/carfull2-l.jpg> Yes, that's another box full of Cab kits in the middle! The cards in the boxs in the near box are NIB prototyping cards! :-) I brought home a car full last Monday but I already unloaded most of it but here's a teaser showing some of it. <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/car%20full3.jpg>. These are all PDP-8 cards. Happy Collecting! Joe

21 years, 2 months

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id this SMS card?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Can anyone id this card? <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/SMS-what.jpg> I can't find anything that looks like a model number on it and it doesn't match the drawings of the three SMS cards on Bitsavers. The most noticable difference is that the other cards have lots of jumpers all over them and this one only has a few (7) near the edge connector. The package that it was in only says "Q-bus SMS Disk IO Bd". The markings on it are Prog Assy 1011939-0002G (the G may be a 6), Assy No SMS 0003773-0001C, Fab 0003772-0001/c2, AW 0003771/B. Sorry for the crummy picture. Joe

21 years, 2 months

1
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eBay users plagiarizing collectors' content...

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Randy McLaughlin" <cctalk at randy482.com> > >Manuals that I have scanned are being sold on CD's. At first it bothered me >but after that I want my PDF's distributed and this is just another way. > >Randy >www.s100-manuals.com Hi It is just rude to not ask. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

6
6
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IBM 1130 may need rescue in Edinburgh!

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

Hi folks, We just got a brief note at ibm1130.org from a guy who spotted an IBM 1130 "looking in a bad state in the street out the back of the ibm edinburgh office." I don't know yet if it's still there now -- this could have been in 1975 and he just got around to looking it up -- but is there anyone in or near Edinburgh who might have the interest in rescuing it, if it turns out not to be a false alarm? At the very least, it should be inspected to see if any useful parts could be salvaged from it before it gets hauled off by the garbage men. Please let me know if you can help if it pans out. I'm trying to see if I can get more details. Brian

21 years, 2 months

4
3
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Programming 2708's

by aek＠bitsavers.org

What programmer can I look for that has the ability to program a 2708? -- The easiest ones to find will be Data I/0 29s with a Unipak or Unipak 2 INT 2708 EPROM DIP 21/27 VA A

21 years, 2 months

1
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PDP11/23+ goes on

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi, thank you all for the tips around my harddrive desaster. Next time I will be wiser. I have cleaned my removable disk's heads. Used isopropanol and a match. Tried the crashed disk pack, crashed again immediately. Had to clean one head again. Took another pack. No crash, no error display etc. Hope that it stays ok. Now I did: > $dm4 .. And dm0,1,2,3 work same way.... Computer says: > > **THIS VOLUME DOES NOT CONTAIN A HARDWARE BOOTABLE SYSTEM *** > > 000034 > @ I would be glad if that is a message read from the disk partitions (like the bootsector message on non-system disks in my pc). When I boot dm5 (the Emulex controller configuration emulates 6 RK06 drives, don't know which one is the removable pack) the disk does something (little seek operations), endlessly. Busy light on the controller nearly always on and the disk seeks around one position. Endlessly. No error indication. When I stop the CPU, controller and disk activity also stop. When I let the CPU resume it goes on and on and on. What's that? A strange program? I have waited for nearly 10 minutes without any visible reaction. Seems to be reproducable. What is the "modern way" to get software into the PDP11? Is there anything like a RIM or BIN loader? Has anybody a convenient solution - or do I have to start from scratch writing my own tools? Best regards, Philipp :-)

21 years, 2 months

8
12
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CS/80 disc geometry

by aek＠bitsavers.org

To (partially) answer my own question, there is some info in the NETBSD rd driver. (rd.h and rd.c) I guess no one has tried coding up a SS-80 or CS-80 drive simulator yet.. rd.c /* * Misc. HW description, indexed by sc_type. * Used for mapping 256-byte sectors for 512-byte sectors */ const struct rdidentinfo { u_int16_t ri_hwid; /* 2 byte HW id */ u_int16_t ri_maxunum; /* maximum allowed unit number */ char *ri_desc; /* drive type description */ int ri_nbpt; /* DEV_BSIZE blocks per track */ int ri_ntpc; /* tracks per cylinder */ int ri_ncyl; /* cylinders per unit */ int ri_nblocks; /* DEV_BSIZE blocks on disk */ } rdidentinfo[] = { { RD7946AID, 0, "7945A", NRD7945ABPT, NRD7945ATRK, 968, 108416 }, { RD9134DID, 1, "9134D", NRD9134DBPT, NRD9134DTRK, 303, 29088 }, { RD9134LID, 1, "9122S", NRD9122SBPT, NRD9122STRK, 77, 1232 }, { RD7912PID, 0, "7912P", NRD7912PBPT, NRD7912PTRK, 572, 128128 }, { RD7914PID, 0, "7914P", NRD7914PBPT, NRD7914PTRK, 1152, 258048 }, { RD7958AID, 0, "7958A", NRD7958ABPT, NRD7958ATRK, 1013, 255276 }, { RD7957AID, 0, "7957A", NRD7957ABPT, NRD7957ATRK, 1036, 159544 }, { RD7933HID, 0, "7933H", NRD7933HBPT, NRD7933HTRK, 1321, 789958 }, { RD9134LID, 1, "9134L", NRD9134LBPT, NRD9134LTRK, 973, 77840 }, { RD7936HID, 0, "7936H", NRD7936HBPT, NRD7936HTRK, 698, 600978 }, { RD7937HID, 0, "7937H", NRD7937HBPT, NRD7937HTRK, 698, 1116102 }, { RD7914CTID, 0, "7914CT", NRD7914PBPT, NRD7914PTRK, 1152, 258048 }, { RD7946AID, 0, "7946A", NRD7945ABPT, NRD7945ATRK, 968, 108416 }, { RD9134LID, 1, "9122D", NRD9122SBPT, NRD9122STRK, 77, 1232 }, { RD7957BID, 0, "7957B", NRD7957BBPT, NRD7957BTRK, 1269, 159894 }, { RD7958BID, 0, "7958B", NRD7958BBPT, NRD7958BTRK, 786, 297108 }, { RD7959BID, 0, "7959B", NRD7959BBPT, NRD7959BTRK, 1572, 594216 }, { RD2200AID, 0, "2200A", NRD2200ABPT, NRD2200ATRK, 1449, 654948 }, { RD2203AID, 0, "2203A", NRD2203ABPT, NRD2203ATRK, 1449, 1309896 } }; rd.h/* HW ids */ #define RD7946AID 0x220 /* also 7945A */ #define RD9134DID 0x221 /* also 9122S */ #define RD9134LID 0x222 /* also 9122D */ #define RD7912PID 0x209 #define RD7914CTID 0x20A #define RD7914PID 0x20B #define RD7958AID 0x22B #define RD7957AID 0x22A #define RD7933HID 0x212 #define RD7936HID 0x213 /* just guessing -- as of yet unknown */ #define RD7937HID 0x214 #define RD7957BID 0x22C /* another guess based on 7958B */ #define RD7958BID 0x22D #define RD7959BID 0x22E /* another guess based on 7958B */ #define RD2200AID 0x22F #define RD2203AID 0x230 /* yet another guess */ /* SW ids -- indicies into rdidentinfo, order is arbitrary */ #define RD7945A 0 #define RD9134D 1 #define RD9122S 2 #define RD7912P 3 #define RD7914P 4 #define RD7958A 5 #define RD7957A 6 #define RD7933H 7 #define RD9134L 8 #define RD7936H 9 #define RD7937H 10 #define RD7914CT 11 #define RD7946A 12 #define RD9122D 13 #define RD7957B 14 #define RD7958B 15 #define RD7959B 16 #define NRD7945ABPT 16 #define NRD7945ATRK 7 #define NRD9134DBPT 16 #define NRD9134DTRK 6 #define NRD9122SBPT 8 #define NRD9122STRK 2 #define NRD7912PBPT 32 #define NRD7912PTRK 7 #define NRD7914PBPT 32 #define NRD7914PTRK 7 #define NRD7933HBPT 46 #define NRD7933HTRK 13 #define NRD9134LBPT 16 #define NRD9134LTRK 5 /* * Several HP drives have an odd number of 256 byte sectors per track. * This makes it rather difficult to break them into 512 and 1024 byte blocks. * So...we just do like HPUX and don't bother to respect hardware track/head * boundries -- we just mold the disk so that we use the entire capacity. * HPUX also sometimes doesn't abide by cylinder boundries, we attempt to * whenever possible. * * DISK REAL (256 BPS) HPUX (1024 BPS) BSD (512 BPS) * SPT x HD x CYL SPT x HD x CYL SPT x HD x CYL * ----- --------------- --------------- -------------- * 7936: 123 x 7 x 1396 25 x 7 x 1716 123 x 7 x 698 * 7937: 123 x 13 x 1396 25 x 16 x 1395 123 x 13 x 698 * * 7957A: 63 x 5 x 1013 11 x 7 x 1036 22 x 7 x 1036 * 7958A: 63 x 8 x 1013 21 x 6 x 1013 36 x 7 x 1013 * * 7957B: 63 x 4 x 1269 9 x 7 x 1269 18 x 7 x 1269 * 7958B: 63 x 6 x 1572 21 x 9 x 786 42 x 9 x 786 * 7959B: 63 x 12 x 1572 21 x 9 x 1572 42 x 9 x 1572 * * 2200A: 113 x 8 x 1449 113 x 2 x 1449 113 x 4 x 1449 * 2203A: 113 x 16 x 1449 113 x 4 x 1449 113 x 8 x 1449 */ #define NRD7936HBPT 123 #define NRD7936HTRK 7 #define NRD7937HBPT 123 #define NRD7937HTRK 13 #define NRD7957ABPT 22 #define NRD7957ATRK 7 #define NRD7958ABPT 36 #define NRD7958ATRK 7 #define NRD7957BBPT 18 #define NRD7957BTRK 7 #define NRD7958BBPT 42 #define NRD7958BTRK 9 #define NRD7959BBPT 42 #define NRD7959BTRK 9 #define NRD2200ABPT 113 #define NRD2200ATRK 4 #define NRD2203ABPT 113 #define NRD2203ATRK 8

21 years, 2 months

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What this CDC Cyber Disk Field Tester? (on ebay)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I just realized what it is... It's the exerciser for CDC 5440 fixed/removable discs (OEMed to TI as the DS10) ..of which I have several which need work.

21 years, 2 months

1
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HP CS/80 'describe' cmd result list

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Has anyone made a list of what is returned by the CS/80 'describe' command (opcode 53) on the different models of discs? I think someone asked this a while ago, but I never saw anyone reply.

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Goodies... offered here before E-Bay

by rdd＠rddavis.org

Before I e-bay the following items, I'm posting a list here in case anyone's interested in making a reasonable offer or trade. Items are located in western Baltimore County, Maryland. *** Local pick-up only, unless someone makes it very worth my while *** *** to ship these items. *** - Tektronix 4014 terminal. I may have some additional Tektronix-terminal goodies, such as manuals and tapes, but for a different terminal. Shipping this isn't trivial or inexpensive... it cost me well over $100 to have this shipped here years ago. - Over 100 Sun VME-bus boards - Dual expansion chasis with power supply for a Q-bus PDP-11 or VAX - *Possibly* a spare RL02 drive - CRT from an old DuMont oscilloscope - Large drawer for a 19" rack mount chasis... may need some additional hardware, but I may have it all, will look. - Parts of a PDP-11/34A (front panel, boards, power-supply bits) - Umax flat-bed SCSI scanner... doesn't work, but should be good for parts - 17" older HP monitor... very heavy. Notes: Tektronix 4014 terminal: Appears to need an HV PSU repair. Caveat: I began disassembling this several years ago for cleaning and lost some screws that attach the power supply to the chassis. Also, I misplaced my notes about what wires connect where. Although that enormous power supply heat sink is looking very tempting for an audio amplifier project, I'll try to avoid the temptation in the interest of preservation. Sun VME-bus boards: these include several possibly rare boards such as fiber-optic network boards, cable modems, color printer board, etc. Finally, all of these boards are accessible and I've cleaned them up, so AFAIK, there are no spiders, etc. hiding on them. It's my preference to have someone collect them all at once so that I don't have to ship one here and there, etc. Of course, make it very worth my while and I'll consider doing that. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2005 R.D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: an All Rights Reserved unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her www.rddavis.org 410-744-4900 other creatures, using dogma to justify such Help to save the wild horses! beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

21 years, 2 months

1
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Mindset RS-232 Module

by marvin＠rain.org

I just ran across a Mindset RS-232-C module in some stuff that was donated to our amateur radio club bazaar. A quick look didn't show the computer it went with but if it is worth checking out, I can ask. Since the bazaar is a fund raiser for our club, it is available for sale; any thoughts on what it is worth ... and the computer if it should show up?

21 years, 2 months

2
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Computers In Movies

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Our very own Chris Garcia has an interesting article on movie computers at: http://efanzines.com/DrinkTank/DrinkTank29.pdf For those who don't know what fanzines are, I will leave that up to Chris to explain in some future issue. Billy

21 years, 2 months

1
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CS/80 disc geometry

by aek＠bitsavers.org

So what would it take to kick off a CS/80 simulator project for Linux or NetBSD - or even Solaris ? -- It is creeping up on my interest list. This sort of started when I won what turned out to be an incomplete HP PASCAL 2.0 source document set on ebay a few weeks ago. There is ALMOST enough information there to start on a simulation of the HP 9000/200 series, which is the most simple of the 68K machines that HP built. So I've been digging around seeing what I can learn about the 200 and 300 series over the past few weeks (DIO cards, et al) and what software can be found (I picked up some 5" floppies with BASIC and PASCAL a while ago) I've picked up a couple of early 3xx boxes to take a look at (310, 320 and 340) and I just got a 9836 and 36C. This was about the last of the machines that HP provided any sort of technical detail on (schematics in the DIO card manuals, etc.) Since the same cards were used on the HPUX workstations, there is some information on them in the NetBSD code. This also would be useful for a future classic HP3000 simulation of the 4x series, which were CS/80 only. I tried emailing Peter Brown about the work he was doing on raw reads of CS/80 discs under WIN98 a few years ago to see what he was able to learn, but haven't heard anything back yet.

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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booting and 11/44 via tu58 sim?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Hi, On a whim (hey, it's father's day :-) I decided to try and boot my dormant 11/44 from the TU58 using the tu58 simulator. Has anyone done this? I'm being totally lazy and didn't look at the M7090 schematics (yet) and assumed the TU58 20pin header is the same as the console 20pin header. I also assumed it's RS-232 and not TTL. Further, I assumed it was running at 38400 baud. Naturally it didn't work right off the bat... :-) I know my serial port and tu58 simulator are working since they boot my 11/730 just fine. I'll look at the schematics but I thought I'd ask for any sage advice. (luckily my spare UBI board had a DD boot rom on it) -brad

21 years, 2 months

9
14
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PSA RE: Equipment Auction

by dhbarr＠gmail.com

Greetings, list(s). First of all, let me say that I'm not in the habit of making commercial posts; this isn't about that. Also, this PSA is going out to several lists, so if you see something severely OT please assume it wasn't intended for you. Having said that, the University of Oklahoma is having a Surplus Property Auction tomorrow at 8am, and I intend to attend. While doing the public viewing today, I recorded some items of interest: +--------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ | Lot - Description | +--------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ | 818 - NextStation (slab) with video editing | | equipment | | 923 - HP 5328A 800MHz universal counter | | 879 - AT&T 6300WGS | | 870 - TexScan MSI CompuID | | 996 - HP 3396A Integrator | | 902 - HP 5085A Standby Power Supply | | 924 - Digital Technology Inc. DTI-575-116600 | | 830 - Box of 10sealed Carlisle Summit 1600 BPI | | / 6250 CPI tapes | | 730 - Panasonic TR-90T1G LKB Bromma Computer | | Display | | ??? - Assorted Rohde & Shwarz instruments | | ??? - Assorted Fluke Scientific instruments | | 861 - HP Visualize C200 (PA-RISC) | | 862 - HP Visualize C200 (PA-RISC) | | 863 - HP Visualize C200 (PA-RISC) | | ??? - Compaq ProLiant ML530 PII Xeon 6x 36.4Gb | | Ultra SCSI | +--------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ IF YOU WANT ME TO BID FOR YOU: - contact me no later than 2005.06.25.06.00GMt-6 (six am saturday morning) - preference will be given to those who arrange to get their funding to me BEFORE the auction starts (paypal dhbarr at gmail dot com) - you will need to arrange to get meatspace contact details to me before bidding starts - I -will- bid on things for you up to your pre-arranged amount, within reason - shipping and packaging will also be minimal Regards, dhbarr at sdf dot lonestar dot org PS: In case someone else is in the OKC area: 2101 W. Tecumseh Road, Norman OK www.ou.edu/property_control/index.htm

21 years, 2 months

1
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any DEC Rainbow gurus on list?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

In particular I'd like to know what crt controller was used in the Rainbow. Grassy arse __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

21 years, 2 months

4
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Several comments on crashed drive in PDP-11/23

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 22:21:29 +0200 > From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> > Subject: PDP11/23+ goes on > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <42B48249.7070409 at hachti.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Hi, > > thank you all for the tips around my harddrive desaster. Next time I > will be wiser. > I have cleaned my removable disk's heads. Used isopropanol and a match. > Tried the crashed disk pack, crashed again immediately. Had to clean one > head again. Took another pack. No crash, no error display etc. Hope that > it stays ok. :-) That was to be expected. A disk crash don't happen without a reason. That said, I've very seldom ever have it happen, and several times, the drive survived fine, but the pack was junk. People around here are perhaps a bit paranoid on cleaning. :-) But then again, it all boils down to how important it is for you to succeed. Cleaning is never wrong, but personally I can't say that not having cleaned that much stuff still haven't hurt me. > Now I did: > > $dm4 > .. And dm0,1,2,3 work same way.... > > Computer says: > > > > **THIS VOLUME DOES NOT CONTAIN A HARDWARE BOOTABLE SYSTEM *** > > > > 000034 > > @ > > I would be glad if that is a message read from the disk partitions (like > the bootsector message on non-system disks in my pc). Yes, that is something that is read from the disk. RSX (don't know if the other OSes do the same) write a special boot block on non-bootable disks. This boot block basically just prints the above message, and halts. All that fits fine into 512 bytes. I don't know if more modern hardware have any checks in the boot code in the boot roms as well, which might say something. But the above message is exactly the message in the boot block RSX creates on non-bootable disks anyway. > What is the "modern way" to get software into the PDP11? Phew. Tape normally. Small, modern PDP11s usually have TK50, and software is distributed on TK50. Older PDP11s usually had/have large 1/2" tape drives. Software is also distributed on that. Tapes are bootable, and holds a system designed just for installing the rest. > Is there anything like a RIM or BIN loader? Yes, but that is very old technology. People don't have paper tape on PDP-11, and haven't for a very long time. > Has anybody a convenient solution - or do I have to start from scratch > writing my own tools? If you're on a bare system, with only disk drives to play with, then your options are limited. The best might actually be to pretend you have a TU58, which speaks through a normal serial line, but is a block device, which most PDP11 can boot from. > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:24:38 +0200 > From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> > Subject: Re: PDP11/23+ goes on > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <42B49116.5050203 at hachti.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > >>I use a ZIP drive and a Qbus MSCP disc controller. > > Sounds interesting. But where to get that MSCP controller?? MSCP SCSI controllers, to be exact. There are several different types of MSCP controllers, and not all of the talk SCSI, nor can you hook a ZIP drive to them. That said, I believe Qbus MSCP SCSI controllers occasionally pop up on ebay. Or you find someone tossing them out. > >>A software-only solution (though much slower) is to use the > >>TU58 simulation software that is around > > ... But with it I would be able to boot my machine. At the moment I have > NOTHING to boot up my system, copy disks, transfer data from pc etc... Yes. The TU58 is a cheap block device, for which the hardware on the PDP-11 side actually is just a serial interface. Most boot roms know how to boot from one, and an emulator for the actual TU58 exist. > But I have a lot (perhaps more than 100) of these 8" disks. > > Can I boot RT11 or RSX11 from floppy??? Yes. Oh, and I would probably try to align the drive correctly if I fooled around with it. You never know when another pack shows up which you might want to read. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

8
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Wang paper tape format?

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Any of the CDC machines that were multiples of 6 bits also used tapes like this. The 8th bit was start of a file or page of memory. The 7th bit indicated the start of the word - 12, 18, 24, 36 or 60 bits. Billy

21 years, 2 months

1
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DG MV 9600C 128 MB Main Memory Assembly Language Docs

by john.seckinger＠lmco.com

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could point me towards any assembly language documentation for a DG MV 9600C configuration. Thanks in advance for any help. john

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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Any IBM Power / AIX fans out there?

by jdaviscl2＠soupwizard.com

Hi, I just acquired a few IBM POWERstation 370 in unknown condition. I can probably make a couple good units out of the 4 I have - they have disks, memory, etc, were decommissioned from a university environment. I also have a diagnostics set of a cdrom labeled "POWERstation / POWERserver Diagnostics v4.1.5" and a floppy labeled "POWERstation / POWERserver High Capacity (2M byte) Diagnostics Test Diskette", and an external plextor cdrom to use to install software. Right now, since I don't have an AIX 4.3.3 (last supported) install cdrom set, I just want to get a machine powered up and tested. I don't have a 13W3 monitor, nor keyboard or mouse (which I think are non-standard). So, first question is: I plugged up a standard null modem cable to the first serial port, took out the video card, powered up (with nothing in the drives) and saw: nothing. Do I have to make a special cable, or reset the firmware, or something? Also, how does IBM deal with licensing AIX - is it tied to the machine, so if I get a media kit I'm ok to install it? Or did I just buy some boat anchors? Thanks for any info, Jeff Davis

21 years, 2 months

4
3
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HP50960A

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I am hoping there is some what to make it do something other than act as an SRM server (since I have no more SRM stuff...) -- SRM coax cards are easy to find (there are a BUNCH on eBay right now for $10 ea) The hard thing to find is a stand-alone server (esp software) Digging on the list, someone had one running as late as 2003. May be a good thing to ping him to try to get the bits before they disappear. On the other hand, just finding DIO enet cards would probably be more useful.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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PDP-8s and -10s

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-8s and -10s > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:50:02 -0700 > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > >It seems to me that they could have made >the -10 line real mainframes (no, IBM and the BUNCH did not consider the >-10 line real) with just a little effort and not much money. > >-- > >DEC through the 'golden age' didn't go after that market. They tried to >target scientific rather than corporate computing. One of the oddities is that the 36bit machines the 10s/20s were well known for their timesharing with huge nubers of users. >One of the things that isn't talked about much is how the PDP-6 just about >killed DEC because of all of the resources it consumed to get it out the door. The PDP-6 was the VAX-9000 of the 60s. > >They did eventually abandon their 'fan base' to go after the corporate >market, and that was the beginning of DEC's downfall. It was successful for the 80s but the growing PC price performance numbers were hurting the backroom mainframe style systems. The breakpoint was when 486 powered system with basic decent graphics (640x480x8) hit the streets with Win3.11. We had the scientific workstation wars of the late 80s this would be the business workstation war. Several PCs for 2500$ each or less was cheaper than a microvax of any flavor. Allison

21 years, 2 months

5
5
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unreadable HP cartridges

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Has the on-tape format of 98xx HP85 or 264x carts been documented somewhere? Did HP use different encoding schemes in their different product lines? I dug through the stuff on the 264x terminals that I just put up, and they don't mention anything in detail about the tape format itself. If you REALLY wanted to try recovering a bad tape, you could digitize the analog info from the read amp and reconstruct it with software (assuming you knew what the format was) It may not be too bad with the HP DC100 style tapes, since I beleive the heads are fixed, like the DEC TU58s.

21 years, 2 months

4
5
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HP9154 hard disk drive pinout

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I had been looking for this info for over 10 years, and I finally found it this morning while looking around hpmuseum.net for the manuals on the 9817. I looked at the service manuals for the 9153/9154, and found what is probably the only useful bit of info in those manuals (I really don't intend to use a torque wrench to tighten the top cover screws....) The HP9154 (certainly the later versions) use an HP hard disk drive with a single 40 pin power and data connector. It's a strange HP interface, with raw data and an 8 bit control bus. And from what I remember, one end goes to an ASIC on the 9154 cotnroller board, the other to an ASIC in the drive, so it's hard to work out what all the signals are... Anyway, from that manual, here's the pinout of the cable. Please save this soemwhere, if you need it, you _really_ need it.... 1 Rd Data 2 Gnd 3 Wr Data 4 Gnd 5 Wr Gate 6 Gnd 7 4MHz Clk 8 Gnd 9 Rd A-D converter 10 Gnd 11 +5V 12 Gnd 13 +5V 14 Gnd 15 +12V (Motor) 16 Gnd (Motor) 17 +12V (Motor) 18 Gnd (Motor) 19 Dr Sel 0 20 Dr Sel 1 21 Dr Sel 2 22 Dr Sel 3 23 Wr D-A Converter 24 NA/B 25 Sector Pulse 26 Index Pulse 27 Wr NIC Chip 28 Reset 29 +12V (Motor) 30 +12V (Motor) 31 Fault 32 +12V 33 Data Bus 7 34 Data Bus 0 35 Data Bus 6 36 Data Bus 1 37 Data Bus 5 38 Data Bus 2 39 Data Bus 4 40 Data Bus 3 -tony

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Aww crap, I blew something (PDP-11)

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

Well, I was hooking up my KY11-LB front panel to the machine I have moved into a BA11-K, and after testing it several times, I saw a (not very big) flash from near the PSU and the machine quit working. I inspected the power supply modules (two H7441 regulators and one H745) and it wasn???t fuses, so I am baffled as to what happened. I was SOOOO close too, I had got the front panel lights working, the RUN light flashed on power up like it should have, then I realized the power switch was on backwards, cause when you set it from DC OFF to POWER ON (or whatever, this is off the top of my head) it would turn off. I switched the leads, then that???s when it popped. I had the leads connected to J3 on the power distribution portion of the power supply (the module that has the power cord attached to it) I hope there???s someone on here who can help me, I???m good with computers, but I???m not an electrical engineer, so I???m lost! Thanks! Julian

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface > From: "vrs" <vrs at msn.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:46:49 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >> Forgot to answer this - MSC-8 hex MOS memory cards are handy - if they >> are 1/2 populated with 4Kbit chips, they are 16KW, fully populated >> with 4Kbit chips they are 32KW. If you happen to find the same card >> with 16Kbit (4116) chips, that's a whopping 128KW. You'll need a KT8A >> to address it, another late model card of limited use - RTS/8 used it, >> and I am pretty sure there was a RAM disk driver for OS/8 to use the >> upper 96KW as storage. Is there a schematic {printset} around for MSC-8? As to boards other than memory and CPU a front pannel board either the 8E style or 8A is very handy too. Then serial IO cards are useful. I use my 8f with two serial cards, one for console and one to simulate a high speed PTR/PTP. Allison

21 years, 2 months

7
12
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unreadable HP cartridges

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

If you recall there was a discussion about tape catridges that could not be read because their coating was falling off. I was thinking, what if we reverse the tape, so that the magnetic head come in contact with the plastic backing and not the oxide. Would it be possible to read the data then? Obviously I am talking about a one-off operation, just to get the stuff off the tape. **vp

21 years, 2 months

8
12
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HP50960A

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Any ideas as to what it is, and if it can be made to do something interesting? -- Sounds like some variant of the 9817 / 9000/210 http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=7 http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=120 you'll find some field service manuals hiding under "Product Documentation" there googling 50960A turns up "200/SRM Server" SRM is a 700kbit networking scheme which uses the 5096x DIO-I interfaces So it was probably the server side box for an SRM network

21 years, 2 months

2
2
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unreadable HP cartridges

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> Ok, use a magnetic fingerprinting powder on it ;) Actually, I've heard (and >> seen) there IS a liquid solution that will let you visibly see the dots on >> mag tape. > >There is. It generally goes under the name of 'Magnasee' and is a >colloidal suspension of iron oxide in some suitable volatile liquid. I >have no idea where you get it nowadays, though. > >-tony > > Hi Would the stuff used for magnaflex work. This is available through most machine shop supply houses. Another thought would be to stablize the media with something like art spray ( acrylic ). A vary thin coat should only reduce the highs a little but should stablize the coating. I'd try it on a spare tape first. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

How to transfer data FAST?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Ethernet is another good way; DECnet is available on Linux. That assumes a fair amount of software working on the 11 side. Has anyone written something dumb that could squirt a block-level mass storage image (dealing with bad blocks..) through a DELUA or DELQA to a destination at the raw packet level? I've been thinking of doing a ethernet nub debugger for Qbus machines that would work that way (which I why I just picked up a DELQA..)

21 years, 2 months

3
3
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Liquidating my collection

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

jscheef at yahoo.com --- cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org <fauradon at frontiernet.net> wrote: > Hi all, > Thank you to all who showed some interest. I have already received requests > for specific machines. Unfortunately some of them were already gone. I will > try to make a list out of the ones I have on my site and list only the ones > that are still available. > Right off the back the IBM 5110 and the SWTPC are long gone (to list > members). > Here's the list. > ACT_______Apricot F10 > Apple_______Apple ][ > Apple_______Apple //e > Apple_______Apple //c > Apple_______Apple IIgs > Apple_______Apple /// > Apple_______Mac Plus > Apple_______Mac Classic > Apple_______Mac SE > Apple_______Mac SE/30 > Apple_______Mac II > Apple_______Mac II cx > Apple_______Mac II vx > Apple_______Performa 631 > AT&T_______UNIX PC > Atari_______1040 STF > Commodore_______Amiga 1000 > Commodore_______PET 4016 > Commodore_______B128 > Compaq_______prolinea > Epson_______QX10 > Franklin_______ACE 500 > Franklin_______ACE 1000 > Franklin_______ACE 2100 > Heath/Zenith_______ZT 1 > Heath/Zenith_______H100 > Heath/Zenith_______H89 > Heath/Zenith_______Z100 > Heath/Zenith_______Z90 > Heath/Zenith_______?286 > Hewlett Packard_______HP-85 > Hewlett Packard_______HP-87XM > Hewlett Packard_______HP-150 > Hewlett Packard_______HP-150II > IBM_______PC jr > IBM_______PC XT > IBM_______PS/2 Mod 60 > IBM_______PS/2 Mod 80 > Micron_______Pro Magnum Plus > Sinclair_______Timex Sinclair 1000 > Sinclair_______Timex Sinclair 1500 > Tandy_______TRS80 Model III > Tandy_______TRS80 Model 4 > Tandy_______Tandy 1000 PC EX > Televideo_______? > Vector Graphic_______Vector 3 > VTECH_______Laser 128 > Amstrad_______PPC 512 > Apple_______Mac Portable > Commodore_______Commodore SX-64 > Compaq_______Compaq Portable > Compaq_______Compaq Portable II > Grid_______Gridcase 1520 > IBM_______Personal Portable Computer > IBM_______PS/2 Mod 70P > Jonos_______Jonos > Kaypro_______Kaypro 1 > Kaypro_______Kaypro II > Kaypro_______Kaypro 4 > Kaypro_______Kaypro 16 > Osborne_______Osborne 1 > Toshiba_______T3100 > Apple_______Powerbook duo 230 > Apple_______Powerbook duo 280c > Compaq_______LTE Lite/20 > Compaq_______LTE Lite/25 > Compaq_______LTE Lite/25c > Datavue_______Spark > Epson_______HC 41 > Epson_______HX 20 > Epson_______HX 40 > Grid_______GridPad 1910 === Message Truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Old Core Memory Boards

by unibus＠gmail.com

> From: "Phil Spanner" <pspan at amerytel.net> [Various snips...] > I just received an email from a close friend that used to work for a memory > manufacturer called Fabri Tek Inc. here in Amery WI. > Manufacture Fabri Tek Inc. Date of manufacture circa 1970 Does your friend have any recollection of a Fabri Tek memory expansion for a DEC PDP-11/20? This would have been a 19in rackmount with Unibus interface. I ended up with complete memory unit, interface cables, some documentation, etc, but unfortunately not the processor. Believe the memory was removed from a PDP-11/20 but I don't have confirmation. Regards, Garry

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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My classiccmp non-retirement :-)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

This raises an interesting question: if you replaced a real PDP-11 that people connected to online with an emulated one, would they be able to know the difference? -- If you were using SIMH you would, since it doesn't perform cycle accurate simulation. Unless you ran it on fairly slow modern hardware it would be faster than the original. This wouldn't be the case for MESS, though, since it is based on the cycle-accurate MAME processor cores.

21 years, 2 months

3
2
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More HP Series 80: Waveform Analysis Pac rescued

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

I'd love to add this pac to the www.series80.org collection. I live in Philadelphia, so please send me email with the cost of shipping and I'll send you the money. I can scan the listings as bitmaps, but I don't have the time to make HP-85 programs out of them. If you require the originals returned to you after I make copies let me know and I will return them to you ASAP. Thanks **vp

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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rescue needed (dec pdp & vax, rt11, maybe DG)

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I've been in contact with an individual representing a university who has a metric butt-load of software and documentation for various systems. Primarily DEC PDP-11/RT11, some vax, and possibly some DG. He seemed to key in on RT11 software & Docs, as well as DEC handbooks, etc. He is located in north east Alabama, east and slightly north of birmingham. I would like to see Jerome Fine get first perusal of any RT11 images. The donator's primary concern is that this load of stuff NOT hit E-bay, and instead be scanned and archived for the public. Resting in private hands is ok, as he'd like to see the stuff get use as well. He just doesn't want to see someone turn a buck on ebay with it. I suspect most if not all of us would agree to this. So, anyone in north east alabama want to organize a pickup and distribution (probably to Al at some point for archiving)? Jay West

21 years, 2 months

3
4
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Stride 440 available

by innfoclassics＠gmail.com

Going through the front of my container I found a Stride 440 that I need to sell. Made in Reno, Nevada! I believe it is a 68020 machine with 3 megs of ram and a 60 meg MFM Fujitu hard drive and is a decendant of the Sage running p-system. Looking at the cardset it appears it might have been upgraded from the original 68010 to a 68020. It also looks to me that the modem chipset was never installed. It has a three board set with a smaller board in the middle of the larger two boards. I think the small one is the 68020. The case shows some damage however none is visible to the electronics or drives. Missing a floppy drive cover, from the layout of the cables a second was never installed.. I have not powered it up and am not going to, I will leave that up to the new owner. Pictures at http://members.aol.com/innfosale/stride/front.jpg http://members.aol.com/innfosale/stride/back.jpg http://members.aol.com/innfosale/stride/inside.jpg http://members.aol.com/innfosale/stride/label.jpg http://members.aol.com/innfosale/stride/inside2.jpg and two kind of panoramic photos with canon photostich. http://members.aol.com/innfosale/stride/panfront.jpg http://members.aol.com/innfosale/stride/panback.jpg More and higher res pics avalable Given it is unusual I thought I would offer it to the list first. From my google search it is a fairly rare machine. I could find no pictures at all. I need to sell it so I am open to offers. Anyone interested? Out of the dig is an original 5150 CPU, a 5 slot 2nd gen two floppy, CGA, AST mem & I/O. A Vector MZ5 S100 MF with 8 cards I have yet to inventory, no drives. On ebay at the moment is the last Teletype model 43 I have, sale number 5210816476 ending in a couple of days. -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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Parallel ASCII keyboard data needed

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I just received a parallel ASCII keyboard and I'm looking for pinout data on the keyboard itself. There's a 2x20 card edge connector on the right-hand side. Two power pins are identifyable on the foil side. The keyboard contains a GI AY5-2376 chip for which the datasheet was kindly supplied by various list members earlier in the week. The keyboard is manufactured by Clare-Pendar. It has the following numbers on the back "721017-K2" and "P/N SW1366". Before I start probing with a meter I wanted to poll the list first for data. Thanks in advance. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

My classiccmp non-retirement :-)

by shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com

Those of you following this list for the last few years know about my "giveaways". I've been getting rid of stuff that has sat in my basement or garage for a number of years without getting touched. In my hardware heyday, I would spend every moment of my free time playing with Q-bus, Unibus, or S-100 hardware. I also had my foot in the water w.r.t. PDP-11 OS releases (in some cases both feet in the water) in the late 90's and got to do a lot of fun things with very specialized classic hardware (CAT machine backprojectors hooked to PDP-11's, for example). But since I got a "steady job" in 2000 running a $10 Billion peripheral, factored in with three young kids, I didn't have the time to treat the hardware well. All of it has gone on to find good homes, and I want to thank the volunteers who helped me get rid of it. There's still a few items but they have owners allocated already :-). I still do tinker with electronics, but my attention as of late is on analog circuitry (often with microcontroller assistance) rather than older bus-based computer systems. I've also acquired a few R-390A's that I'm happy to say are on their way to being cleaned up and restored. (OK, the R-390A has a digital display on the front, but it's not digital electronics!). And I will still endeavor to take care of the PDP-10 software archives, the DECUS PDP-11 and PDP-10 collections, etc. It's been years since any software was donated to those archives so I haven't put a lot of effort into them. But it's good to know that there a are a couple of PDP-10's around the world that are now usefully "up" thanks to the archives. I've made a few attempts to break into the professional archiving world w.r.t. digital media, but so far I've been universally ignored. Of course, those who ignore me would rather just talk about the problem rather than solve it. So maybe that's why I don't register on their radar. You have seen and probably will see me rant and rave on this subject occasionally! So that's my non-retirement. I hope to keep involved and do relevant things into the future, and in the past few months I've been browsing this list more than I did in the early 2000's. Tim.

21 years, 2 months

17
23
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HP50960A

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Does anyone know anything about a computer (I assume) called the HP50960A, and how it relates to the HP9817A (if it does at all)? While looking in my collection for something else, I came across one. It's a box about the size of one of the later HP hard disk units (a 9133H, for example). Inside, there's a SMPSU, a backplane (which has an 09817- part number), and a mainboard flat in the bottom of the case. The backplane has 6 of what I assume are DIO slots (as normal, every other one can take a card with a connector bracked, the intermediate ones are for memory cards). There's a row of 2 pin fuses along the top of the backplane, and what looks like some kind of voltage regulator circuitry down the edge. The mainboard connects to the backplane by a DIN41612 (96 pin) connector at the bottom. After remoing the cover, expansion cards, disconnectign the fan plug from teg backplane and removing 2 more screws, the mainboard and rear panel slide out. Onthe mainboard are an HPIB port and RS232 port The mainboard contains : 68000 CPU. 68440 (DMA controller I think), 1TL1-0004 (HPIB controller), 68681 (serial chip), 2 ROMs, 512K DRAM, a couple of PALs, TTL glue, etc. One corner of the mainboard is not populated, it looks like it could have taken an ethernet interface, with postiions for a DA15 and BNC connector. There are no memory cards in my machine, but there are 3 expansion cards: 'Human Interface HPIB'. External connectors are 24 pin Blue Ribbon for HPIB, a 3.5mm jack socket (mini phone jack) labeleld 'speaker (8$\Omega$)' and a keyboard connector which I am sure is HP-HIL. The main chips on the boardare a 9914 HPIB controller + buffers, a 1RD2-0001 HP-HIL interface, a microcontroller (8041?) a76494 sound chip (!), and TTL glue. 'Composite video 98204A'. There's an unmarked BNC on the bracket, I am sure that's the composite vidoe out. Also 2 unmarked screwdriver-set hex switches. Main chips are a 6845 CRT controller, 6116 SRAM, a couple of EPROMs, TTL glue. There's an unmarked 20 pin header inside, near the back panel. 'SRM Coaz Interface'. Afain with a BNC connector on the bracket, and an LED marked 'Transmit activity'. Clearly a network card. Stuck on (but official) labels give the select code as 21 and the node address as 00. There are labelled DIP switches on the board to set these. Main chips include a Z80A, Z80A-CTC, Z80A-SIO, 6264 SRAM, ROM, an NatSemi analogue part (from the number) which is not in the equivalents list, and which seems to link to the BNC connector, a PAL, and TTL glue Any ideas as to what it is, and if it can be made to do something interesting? -tony

21 years, 2 months

2
2
0 0

Altair Fan

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete at dunnington.u-net.com> > >On Jun 17 2005, 7:47, Cini, Richard wrote: > >> Rules-of-thumb like this are great to know. The fan, I'm sure, >was >> installed (like the IMSAI) blowing IN because the inside was caked >with >> dust. So, I made it an exhaust fan (no filter). >> >> As I work on the IMSAI, which has no filter either, I will swap >it >> around, too. > >Don't do that. If it's designed to blow in, changing the direction to >blowing out will alter and probably reduce the cooling. Why? Because >turbulent air is lots better at cooling than a laminar flow, and will >reach more parts of the case. You get turbulent air from the "blow" >side of a fan, but laminar flow towards the inlet side. You may also >be directing the airflow away fom some component that previously was >cooled, eg a PSU. Moreover, if you alter the flow direction so that >air is being sucked in through all the other orifices, it will be >entering via the fronts of disk drives etc (well, probably not on this >machine but I'm thinking of the general case). That's the last place >you want the dust. Far better it drops on the motherboard where you >can vacuum it out. Better still, fit a filter. > Hi Pete You have to remember, these machines were designed by electrical engineers, not an air flow expert. Yes, the original used in blowing air. I did a quick check of the temperatures of the boards in my IMSAI with the in blowing air and some boards seemed to get no flow at all. Reversing the flow made a big difference. The powersupply in the IMSAI, at least is large enough to need little more than some air flow. The only parts that might get uncomfortable are the filter caps. Any additional heat here is harder on them. Still, after many hours of use, with almost a full boat of 8K boards, I find the caps to be mildly warm. While not specifically schooled in air flow, I did work for a company that made burnin ovens. I learned a lot about air flow there. We would often get request >from customers to fix the airflow in in-house designed chambers that had really poor temperature distribution. Mil spec states how uniform the chamber should be. Like I said, many of these were designed by electrical engineers. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

16
36
0 0

Old Core Memory Boards

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi Do these boards come with the read and write circuits or are they just core boards? One can check ebay for typical core board values ( not that great ). Dwight >From: "Phil Spanner" <pspan at amerytel.net> >Hi all, > >I just received an email from a close friend that used to work for a memory >manufacturer called Fabri Tek Inc. here in Amery WI. >He wants to sell some old core memory boards that came out of a drum memory >from a power plant. Here is the info he sent to me. > >Manufacture Fabri Tek Inc. Date of manufacture circa >1970 > >Model 688 > >Size 55 C/M X 38.5 C/M X 2.5 C/M > >Core 32k x 20 or 655,360 cores > >Core size 18 m/in ferrite lithium > >P/N 256-0234-00 > >unit has 2ea 100 pin connectors .125 centers > >I am not sure how many he had, but I think he mentioned $ 30.00 each plus >freight. > > >

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

More HP Series 80: Waveform Analysis Pac rescued

by listmailgoeshere＠gmail.com

Hi list, On a recent trip back to (that same) dumpster, I managed to rescue an HP Waveform Analysis Pac for the Series 80 machines. It's a plastic folder with white vacuum-formed compartments inside, and it contains the following: * one 5.25" floppy with a printed Waveform Analysis Pac label ((C) Hewlett-Packard 1980) * a transparent plastic bag containing a sheet of stickers, each of which say "SELECT CODE n" where n goes from 1 to 9 (7 is missing) * an HP-85 format tape with printed label "HP-85 WAVEFORM ANALYSIS PAC" * another similar tape but with a handwritten label and a piece of HP-85 printout inside the case with it showing the directory listing * around 12 code fragments/pieces of program output printed out on the HP-85 internal printer, one of which has some line graphs on it * some photocopies of program listings from the HP-85 printer (one of these is dated 6/2/81) * an approx. 1/4" stack of code listings (not sure if these are for user-written code or vendor-supplied code, but they appear to be for waveform analysis) These are available to anyone who would be able to place them in a public archive available to the classic computing community (Vassilis? Al?). If the long listings are user-written, someone has put a lot of effort into this, and I'd like to see it live on. Usual deal with shipping - I'll ship to anywhere, you pay shipping cost though. Ed.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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Old Core Memory Boards

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> He wants to sell some old core memory boards that came out of a drum memory If he still has it, the drum is a LOT more valuable than the core planes.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Old Core Memory Boards

by pspan＠amerytel.net

Hi all, I just received an email from a close friend that used to work for a memory manufacturer called Fabri Tek Inc. here in Amery WI. He wants to sell some old core memory boards that came out of a drum memory >from a power plant. Here is the info he sent to me. Manufacture Fabri Tek Inc. Date of manufacture circa 1970 Model 688 Size 55 C/M X 38.5 C/M X 2.5 C/M Core 32k x 20 or 655,360 cores Core size 18 m/in ferrite lithium P/N 256-0234-00 unit has 2ea 100 pin connectors .125 centers I am not sure how many he had, but I think he mentioned $ 30.00 each plus freight.

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

eBay users plagiarizing collectors' content...

by news＠computercollector.com

I'm sure this has happened to other people here, but it never happened to me before, and it ticks me off. Someone posted an eBay ad for this vintage handheld and blatantly copied 680 words of my work into the "more information" part of the item's description. Above that part, they also stole extensively (some text and the top photo) from the site www.datamath.org, but at least the jerk includes that link... There is no credit for my work at all. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5783764229 Having said that, it's an excellent price. I would bid up to $50-$75 for this if I didn't already have one. ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Also see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 750 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 2 months

6
5
0 0

Timex/Sinclair 1000 Tape Loading

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi Gary You didn't say what the main issue is? The problem could be most any thing. Have you listened to the recordings to make sure you don't have dropouts? Do you have an oscilloscope that you can use to look at what the Z80 sees? If you have dropouts caused by wrinkled tapes, wind the tape backwards and let it sit for about a week. If it is folded, you may have to do some more serious recovery tricks. I've has to do this on Poly88 tapes. It may also be a problem in the Sinclair. Sometimes the ceramic capacitors become leaky. This can effect the threshold of the input comparitor. There are still more things to look at. Try to isolate the problem. Things like, are you get partial reads? And things like was meantioned about tape speeds. If you are using a hi-fi unit, most line outs don't provide enough signal level. Dwight >From: "Gary Sparkes" <mokuba at gmail.com> > >I'm having a hell of a time getting any program to load, so far I've been >Totally unsuccessful. > >Anyone have any tips or advice they can throw at me? >Would love to hear anything at all :) > > >

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Inventor who kicked off computer revolution dies

by KParker＠workcover.com

This appeared in my twice daily feed of ABC News. My appreciation to ABC news for the story +++++++++++++++++++++++ *Inventor who kicked off computer revolution dies* Jack Kilby, the inventor of the integrated circuit which provided the basis of the computer chip revolution, has died of cancer. Mr Kilby, 81, made the discovery 47 years ago, when, as a recently hired engineer at Texas Instruments, he was left to work alone in a laboratory while most of his 7,500 colleagues were taking a company-wide summer holiday. As a newly hired employee, Mr Kilby did not qualify to take a holiday in August 1958. "It was a very quiet time and he got a lot done," said Pat Weber, 65, a long-time colleague and friend of Mr Kilby, who retired as vice chairman of the Dallas-based Texas Instruments in 1998. The company announced his death on Tuesday. Mr Kilby, a seminal 20th century inventor whom many place in the same league as Henry Ford and the Wright Brothers, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 2000 for his work. By hand-wiring together multiple transistors, Mr Kilby's invention - about half the size of a paper clip - spawned a revolution in miniaturisation in which millions of circuits are now housed on tiny pieces of silicon used in devices from computers to elevators to pacemakers. Working in parallel at pioneering Silicon Valley company Fairchild Semiconductor, Mr Kilby's rival Bob Noyce sketched out his own ideas for an integrated circuit in an engineering notebook - then forgot about it, according to a new biography of Mr Noyce's life. Mr Kilby, on the other hand, immediately recognised the value of his invention and built a working prototype in a matter of days, according to associates at Texas Instruments. Mr Kilby and Texas Instruments were first to patent the integrated circuit. Mr Noyce, who later co-founded Intel Corp, and Fairchild Semiconductor are credited with making the integrated circuit manufacturable on a mass production basis. While the competition sparked a 25-year patent battle between the companies over royalties from the invention, the "Kilby patent" weathered all legal challenges. ++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Consultant WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 m: 0418 806 166 e: kparker at workcover.com w: www.workcover.com ++++++++++ ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************

21 years, 2 months

10
11
0 0

DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface > From: der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:08:23 -0400 (EDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Top posted for size reasons... > >I suppose actually bothering to take a few seconds to edit it down to >the relevant bits is out of the question?! (In case you're wondering >what I'm talking about, see below.) > >>>>> [...use 4164s instead of 4116s?...] >>>> What you need to do is [...pinout hackery...] >>> Do you have any info on which ones used 7 bit refresh and which ones >>> used 8 bit refresh? > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B Hi Mouse, I didn't edit it for a very specific reason. I wanted the full content repeated but I didn't bury it at the bottom for those curious od the answer. Nominally I do bottom post and snip! Allison

21 years, 2 months

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DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "der Mouse" <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> > >> Top posted for size reasons... > >I suppose actually bothering to take a few seconds to edit it down to >the relevant bits is out of the question?! (In case you're wondering >what I'm talking about, see below.) > >>>>> [...use 4164s instead of 4116s?...] >>>> What you need to do is [...pinout hackery...] >>> Do you have any info on which ones used 7 bit refresh and which ones >>> used 8 bit refresh? > Hi Most 4164's are 7 bit but look out for TI and some Samsung chips that are labled as 4164's but are actually 8 bit refresh. There is no easy way to tell by the part number. Even the Samsung ones are only different by the date code and rev letters!! The easiest way I've found to check is to put them in a Z80 system that uses the Z80's refresh address generator. If it holds data it is 7 bit. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Top posted for size reasons... I do not know for sure that 7bit refresh is required. It's likely (not totally ceratin) that if you only using part of the array you will require 8 bit refresh anyway. known 7bit refresh 64k DRAMS, NEC, Mitsubushi, Hitachi HM4864 Known 8bit refresh TI, Moto(they also had hidden refresh). There may be others. Allison > >Subject: Re: DEC M8350 - KA8E posibus interface > From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:50:05 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >At 11:58 PM 6/21/05 +0100, you wrote: >>> Also... does anyone know about the differences between 4116 and 4164 >>> chips enough to answer the question if one could use 4164s as long as >>> one a) prevents the non-TTL supplies from reaching the chips (modify >> >>What you need to do is isolate pins 1 and 8 from the board and reconnect >>pin 8 to +5V IIRC >> >> 4116 4164 >>1 -5V N/C >>8 +12V +5V >>9 +5V A7 >> >>That leaves the extra address line tied high, so you only use 1/4 of the chip >> >>> board, modify sockets, modify pins...) and b) possibly tie up or tie >>> down the extra multiplexed address input. Can you refresh 1/4 of a >>> 4164 and have just that part stay refreshed? I ask because I have a >> >>There were 2 types of 64K DRAM. One of them used 7 bit refresh (same as >>the 4116, on the same pins), the other, older/rarer one need all 8 >>address lines to be used for the refresh (this was a royal pain on >>Z80-based machines, where the CPU provides a 7 bit refresh only). > > >Tony, > > This is good info. Someone should post it as a mini-FAQ. > > Do you have any info on which ones used 7 bit refresh and which ones used >8 bit refresh? > > Joe > > >> >>I have personally replaced the odd 4116 with a 4164 as I've just >>described and had no problems. Maybe I've been lucky in finding 7-bit >>refresh chips (which are the more common type), maybe it works anyway. >> >>> serious wad of new 4164s from COMBOARD stock, but 128Kw of 4116s (8 x >>> 12) is more than I have lying around. >>> >> >>-tony >>

21 years, 2 months

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eBay users plagiarizing collectors' content...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 6/22/2005 12:34:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, news at computercollector.com writes: I'm sure this has happened to other people here, but it never happened to me before, and it ticks me off. Someone posted an eBay ad for this vintage handheld and blatantly copied 680 words of my work into the "more information" part of the item's description. Above that part, they also stole extensively (some text and the top photo) from the site www.datamath.org, but at least the jerk includes that link... There is no credit for my work at all. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5783764229 Having said that, it's an excellent price. I would bid up to $50-$75 for this if I didn't already have one. ----------------------------------------- I had that happen to me. I was just looking at stuff, and noticed some familiar sounding text related to a computer for sale, a PS/2 I think. I asked the seller a question and told him I knew what he did and that I demand the text either removed or attributed to me. He complied and said he would not do it anymore. Never had any other issue beyond that.

21 years, 2 months

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unreadable HP cartridges

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: vp at cs.drexel.edu > >If you recall there was a discussion about tape catridges that could >not be read because their coating was falling off. > >I was thinking, what if we reverse the tape, so that the magnetic >head come in contact with the plastic backing and not the oxide. >Would it be possible to read the data then? > >Obviously I am talking about a one-off operation, just to get the >stuff off the tape. > >**vp > Hi Maybe with a good analog recording and a lot of signal processing. The high frequency loss will be quite high. depending on the tape it self, the depth of recording may make the difference. If it is recorded well through the magnetic media, there may be enough signal. The main issue is that you'd most likely need to make several passes to be able to recover the high frequency information above the noise level. This would require maybe doing 180 degrees several times before unrolling the next 180 degress of tape. One would also need to keep track of how far each layer was because the print through of the next layer would compete with the one your trying to read. One moght also go to one of the newer moer sensitive magnetic sensing methods used in current hard disk to increase the signal to noise. It would be a lot of work but I think with a budget of $250K I could read one. Additional reads would be at $10K each. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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How to transfer data FAST?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Philipp Hachtmann" <hachti at hachti.de> > >Hi, > >after several cleaning orgies, my SMD disk (AMPEX DFR-996, see other >posting) seems to start working. >Now I want to backup the data contained on the disks. These are RSX-11 >volumes. I cannot read them under RT11. And I don't know if I can make a >diskette RSX-11 to inspect the data. Or is there a preogram which runs >on rt11 and is able to understand rsx11 filesystem? That would be great! > >My first idea for the backup was "copy/device dm0: tt:" which works. But >there is no error correction and still only 19200 baud. > >So tell me, what are the really cool methods to transfer data between a >PC and a real PDP11 at a reasonable speed? SCSI controller and SCSI >disk? Something else? Ethernet? > >Or is a backup over serial line a normal thing...? > > >Regards, >Philipp :-) > Hi Serial is still the easiest. If the PDP11 has a parallel printer port and your willing to write some code, sending by parallel port can be quite fast. Most all current day PC's still have a parallel printer port. The serial port has gone the way of the dinosaur. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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HP 2468 terminal docs?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I'd like a copy of the terminal manual if it's still floating around. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/terminal/02648-90002_ref_Aug79.pdf

21 years, 2 months

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HP 2468 terminal docs?

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I thought someone had located docs for the 2468 or 2469 terminals (HP), but I don't see them over on bitsavers. Need pinouts, suggested wiring diagrams for both ext baud and int baud. I think there's some of this info in the BACI manual, I'll look there now. But I'd like a copy of the terminal manual if it's still floating around. Jay

21 years, 2 months

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IBM POWERstations

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Not a Schlage lock, Medeco (YUCK!! if security was this important, than why'd they put the power switch out front??) 4.3.3 runs pretty well if you have memory. I ran it with 1 of my cards (128M) and it was really slow. 256 ran pretty well. KB/M are standard PS/2. the "official" RS/6000 keyboard has a speaker in it, but it isn't necessary. Video is 3W3 or 13W3, seems pretty standard. If you need to foil the lock, I can trace the switch positions later today for kludging purposes. I wouldn't advise trying to go directly to IBM, they seem to be the "snooty Maitre'd" that would rather not sell anything than stoop to deal with the likes of an *individual* user. E-Bay has AIX cheap, generally, your school sysadmin might be a help, or you could ask around. Quick check of the RS6ks- plug them in and make sure the # panel doesn't flash 888. If you want the switch pinouts/paths email me, or for other questions. I don't think there of general enough interest for the group (but I could be wrong) I hope this e-mail address doesn't clog up the channels with HTML sludge, even if it does sound a bit egoistical. -Scott Quinn

21 years, 2 months

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eBay users plagiarizing collectors' content...

by mbbrutman＠brutman.com

When it happened to my PCjr web site I contacted eBay, referred them to the original page, and asked them to kill the auction. eBay had a specific email address for this type of complaint and they cancelled the auction within a handful of hours. Nobody can possibly think that when they go to a personal website and lift the cover picture and text directly that they are just borrowing something that is public domain. It does take a lot of time to put that kind of information together, and I don't want it used for commerical uses. You can rewrite or link to the content, but I learned it was wrong to blatantly lift paragraphs back in 3rd grade. ;-0 Another seller asked me first before using the pictures and content. I declined them, but did encourage them to link to the content so that the next buyer would have a better idea of what they were buying and how to get the most out of it. Mike

21 years, 2 months

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Is this an RK05? Can anyone read it?

by gtoal＠gtoal.com

> I have 3 working RK05 drives on my PDP-11/40 and have used them to > successfully read and copy the data from RK05 packs that had not been > spun up since the 1970s and early 1980s, but I guess I'm on the wrong > side of the ocean. Unfortunately so am I as I'm in Texas and the disk is in Scotland - that's the main reason I'm looking for a UK site to help, as otherwise I'ld grab it and hop on a plane to the Netherlands and take Fred up on his offer - it would seem fitting to return the pack to .NL after all these years :-) > Good luck with recovering the data. I know what it's like to finally recover > data from a pack that has been lying dormant for nearly 30 years. It's > quite an exciting feeling, especially if it's stuff that you or your associates > developed and you had once written it off as "lost forever". Yes it is. Our project (Edinburgh Computer History Project) has actually recovered four or five otherwise lost OS's already and every one has been a delight. We do have a few remaining which we're afraid really are gone forever, but there's at least 2, maybe 3, for which we have paper listings that we hope to get our hands on this year. Meanwhile I'm holding off on saying yes to Fred in the hope that someone within the UK has a working PDP11 that'll read the RK05. > Ashley By the way, while on the subject of PDP11's, is there anyone with experience of simh who would like to try to boot a system off some floppy images I have? I tried and failed. They're the 501Kb files in this directory: http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/os/deimos/disk-images/ O/S documentation and source is here: http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/history/BrianGilmore thanks to all who have responded; I'm replying off list to keep the noise down. Graham

21 years, 2 months

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TU58 emulator

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: re:TU58 emulator > From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:31:43 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Jim Beacon wrote: > >> I've found that the TU58 emulator discussed above will not run under Windows >> NT - it will not even extract! It does extract under Win 98, and runs (and >> extracts) well under DOS 6.22 > >I don't know why it wouldn't extract under NT, other than you have a bad >tool. But at any rate, do NOT attempt to run this under Win 98, or for >that matter NT. I'm not sure how NT handles the serial ports compared to >Win 9x, but I wouldn't trust it anyway. Just run under real DOS so that >your access to the serial ports is unhindered by POOR programming. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival NT being NT4 or win2000 is really fussy as it controls devices with and iron fist. I've forced it but it wasn't fun. Your problem with extracting is a local problem unrelated to the emulator. Also forget XP. It runs fine under win9x but make sure the systems is really fast as there will be competeing things going on taking CPU time. The effects of that range from apparent slow access to a lot of IO as retrys due to overruns on the serial lines. Fortunately winders in the win9x range is not a port hog. I havent tried 98ME with this but for a lot of things it's really bad. The BEST as many have said is DOS version 6.22 being a good choice. I keep a 486/66 system running dos 6.22 and Win3.11 so that networking is easy to do but when I need something more or less realtime its available. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Aux Power

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 22 2005, 0:34, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > Hi people, > > on my PDP11/23+ there is that key called "AUX POWER". But it doesn't do > anything on my machine. The only power switch is at the back of my > machine. And there is an unused connector at the back of the front > panel. From that little panel goes a cable to the back of the PDP which > ends in an unused connector, too. > > Somebody said something about a power bus?? I have not found the posting... > > Does a fancy power switching (everything in the rack at once) system > exist? If yes, what do I need to get my rack complete? As Tony has already said, yes there's a power-switching bus, using 3-core cables terminated in 3-pin AMP Mate-N-Lock connectors. The control part is in the 861 (or equivalent) power controller and consists of a small circuit board that drives a contactor (like a 3-pole power relay). Those controllers are 19" wide rack-mount units, usually 2U or 3U high. The "AUX" switch on the front of your 11/23+ can be used for this, but there are some jumpers on the panel that ought to be changed - or at least checked - if you do, because that AUX switch is also used to switch the LTC on and off. You should be able to find the printset for the front panel and see what the cables and jumpers do. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje at pdp11.nl> wrote: > On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, Allison wrote: > > > >I'm not 100% sure if it's your problem, but 2.11BSD doesn't work on the > > >F11 chipset (11/23) because it doesn't have split I&D space. You'll > > >need to use 2.9BSD or earlier on it. > > > > > > > There are two versions of 2.11 if memory serves one with split > > I&D and one without. > No. 2.11 **only** runs on SPlitID systems. For non-ID systems, > use 2.8, 2.9 or (perhaps) 2.10. Ultrix-11 runs on all of these, > by the way. AND is fully supported by VTserver, as I maintain > both :P Don't think 2.10 will run on non split-I/D machines either. > > I have to check but fuzzy memory says 11/23 had I&D or was that later > > with the J11? I distinctly remember the MMU of the 11/23 as being > > software compatable with 11/34, 11/69 and 11/70 (to the limits of > > Q18 or Q22). > 11/23 is based on the F11, and therefore does *not* have SplitID > (11/40,34,50,55,60,23). The /44, 45, 70, 53, 73 and up do. Almost. Non I/D: 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20, 11/21, 11/23, 11/24, 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/60. Split I/D: 11/44, 11/45, 11/50, 11/53, 11/55, 11/70, 11/73, 11/74, 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94. Did I forget any? :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

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HP "ET" 2624A terminal in NM on eBay

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5210346468 $25 but absurd shipping ($100)

21 years, 2 months

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HP 2468 terminal docs?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I've just found two more copies for the 2648A so if Al doesn't have it already, I'll send him one. -- I have a bunch of hp terminal manuals scanned. will bump the 2648 up in the queue.

21 years, 2 months

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Any IBM Power / AIX fans out there?

by jdaviscl2＠soupwizard.com

To pre-answer one question: no, I didn't get any operator keys for the boxes. Are they difficult / expensive to find? If so, I'll go back on thursday and dig thru the storage bins I found the machines in and look for a key... Jeff

21 years, 2 months

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Compaqs

by cb＠mythtech.net

>The "ORIGINAL" had an 8088 and two full height (Tandon TM100?) drives. That would describe mine. I thought it was an 8086, but 8088 wouldn't surprise me (I know it is NOT a 286). I should also have the manuals and original software for it somewhere. It should be a reasonably complete original machine provided I can dig up all the parts (I just saw it this morning in storage, and it has the keyboard/cover, which I thought I had lost on that one... so the physical machine is complete) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 2 months

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Another M68K Qbus cpu!

by tponsford＠theriver.com

A good day at the auction!. I picked up a 11/73 in a BA11-S chassis and a couple of IBM 5150's that I mainly want for the MFM hard drives I also picked up another M68K qbus cpu in a BA11-MA chassis. This one also has the eprom for the MACSBUG firmware monitor. Thanks to the IS pdf on AL Kossow's site I know, with the unix eproms, these are capable of booting a M68K version of 4.3BSD. (providing of course I could find a copy of the OS or even compile the source). But what OS can these boards run with the MACSBUG firmware? I now have two of these boards but I have yet to find out what OS they run? Anybody know?? These machines were probably used for lab equipment as they also have an Extrel sticker on the cpu and an unknown Extrel branded qbus board with two 20 pin connectors, There is very little printed on the Extrel Qbus board for identification, my guess is that they are some sort of serial board, an i/o board or even a floppy disk controller, but the lack of any identifiable controller chip make it hard..any guesses?? Cheers Tom

21 years, 2 months

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TU58 emulator

by jim＠g1jbg.co.uk

I've found that the TU58 emulator discussed above will not run under Windows NT - it will not even extract! It does extract under Win 98, and runs (and extracts) well under DOS 6.22 I'll let you know if it works with my 11/23+ tomorrow, I should at least be able to make an image of (part of) my XXDP disk, though it depends whether I can configure SLU2 (on the CPU board) as the TU58 port. Am I correct in thinking that XXDP(V2.3) will assign a DD drive number for the TU58? (it calls my RL02 DL0). Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

21 years, 2 months

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Aux Power

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi people, on my PDP11/23+ there is that key called "AUX POWER". But it doesn't do anything on my machine. The only power switch is at the back of my machine. And there is an unused connector at the back of the front panel. From that little panel goes a cable to the back of the PDP which ends in an unused connector, too. Somebody said something about a power bus?? I have not found the posting... Does a fancy power switching (everything in the rack at once) system exist? If yes, what do I need to get my rack complete? Best regards, Philipp :-)

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VTSERVER booting > From: Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:32:22 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Tony Duell declared on Monday 20 June 2005 06:49 pm: >> I suppose you could include the Pro 325 and 350 (no I/D, F11 chip) and >> the Pro 380 (split I/D, J11 chip). But those will not run normal PDP11 >> software, the I/O is totally different I believe. > >I've booted RT-11 on my Pro380, so it can't be that far off. It doesn't >have a QBUS/UNIBUS though, so there's not a whole lot of peripherals >that you can use with it. > >Pat Of the PDP-11 OSs RT-11 has the fewest requirements to run. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Still Available for free

by cb＠mythtech.net

>Where are these? I'm in the market for a PC, PC/XT or PC/AT. Also >looking for a Compaq Portable III. Northern NJ (Ridgewood, 07450). I don't have a Compaq Portable III. I have what I believe is the ORIGINAL Compaq. Their luggable suitcase sized thing with dual floppies, and 5 in screen in a nice luggable case. I'd suspect I can probably sell it on ebay, but at this point, I've been thinking of doing that for a very long time, haven't gotten around to it, and now just want to get rid of them. There is at least one, maybe two (I think it is two Corona's, one complete, one missing the keyboard case/top cover, and one complete compaq). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 2 months

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When it rains, it pours! PDP-8

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

<http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/panels!.jpg> :-)

21 years, 2 months

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Anybody know what this DEc cable is for?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

<http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/flip%20cable.jpg> It has a male connector on one end and a female on the other. The cards are marked FLIP-CHIP. Joe

21 years, 2 months

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ARE DEC "Cab-kits" worth anything?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I picked up a sack full of these <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/cab-kit.jpg> last week. Thom says that they're valuable but I was just going to rob so parts out of them. If they're worth much I'll use them for trading material or E-bay them. if they're not worth much, I'll just pull the parts that I want and pitch the rest. Joe

21 years, 2 months

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Heathkit HDOS source listings

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi Rich There is a separate mail group called sebhc that is specifically early Heathkit. It has a ftp that we have collected various images of HDOS and HUG disk as well as some documentation. I'm sure it would be great to have it sent there. There has been some recent discussion with some of the other authors of HDOS that also participate on that group that none of them have saved any of the source code. I am forwarding your message to that group as well. Dwight >From: "Richard Beaudry" <richard.beaudry at gmail.com> > >Hello all, > >I recently acquired a 4-volume set of Heathkit HDOS source listings. >They are in assembly langage, printed out on May 16th, 1980. They >have nicely printed cover pages from Heathkit, and the rest appear to >be photocopies of greenbar paper listings. I haven't examined them >completely, but they appear to be intact, readable, and complete. The >command processor and BASIC interpreter are definitely there, and >there is a lot more as well... > >I'll post more details if anyone is interested. Also, I don't know if >these are archived anywhere. If not, is there interest in getting >these scanned and posted? If so, I'll move it to the top of the list. > Bear in mind it's at least a 6" high stack, double-side printed, so >"top of the stack" may still take a while to do... :-) > >I found some comments by a "J.G. Letwin". Perchance the same Letwin >of OS/2 fame? > >Thanks, >Rich B. > >

21 years, 2 months

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Can anyone id these DEC PDP-8(?) cards? Also pictures on my PDP-8 cards

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Here is a collection of cards that I found in various DEC PDP-8 chassis last week. Can anyone id them? <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/CESI%20LPC8.jpg> Marked CESI and LPC8. I'm guessing that it's a line printer interface for the PDP-8. It has a 40 pin ribbon cable header on it. <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/Emulex%20TU1110406.jpg> Made by Emulex and marked TU1110406 2A. Looks like some kind of tape controller to me. It has two 40 pin ribbon cable headers on it. The LH one is marked To TC01 or TC11 and the RH one is marked To Tape Deck. The rotary knobs on the lower RH edge select speeds of OFF, 125 ipc, 75 ips, 45 ips or 37.5/25 ips. This one <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/PN%203021%206002.jpg> has a symbol that looks like the National Semiconductor symbol but it has three lightning bolts instead of two. It also has the number 3021 6002 on it. The cables have been cut off so I have no idea what was on the other end of them. The only marking on this one <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/PN%20140014.jpg> is the number 140014. This card <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/XEBEC%2001-100968.jpg> was made by XEBEC and has the number 01-100968 on it. It has two 50 pin ribbon cable headers on it. This card <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/OTR%20120.jpg> was made by Computer Idenitics Corp and says that it's an OTR-120 interface. (Optical Tape Reader?) The rest of the photo in the same directory are DEC cards for my PDP-8 with the exception of the Plessey RK-05 disk drive controller set (3 cards). BTW Thom is cleaning up and found 198 various disk cartridges yesterday. Many of them contain software, diagnostics and/or Operating Systems. If anyone needs any cartridges he's looking to sell all of them so give him a call. And yes, he does have some alignment packs, CE packs, etc but he'll want real money for them! Joe

21 years, 2 months

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Ersatz-11 stop

by hachti＠hachti.de

... Running dbit's E11 emulator under Linux. How to stop it? <ALT>+<ENTER> doesn't seem to work... Philipp :-)

21 years, 2 months

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How to tell...

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> wrote: > >>>>> "Johnny" == Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes: > > Johnny> Mentec implemented one additional instruction that really is > Johnny> useful, and which atleast RSX will use, if it finds it, and > Johnny> that is a block copy instruction. I don't even know if it has > Johnny> a mnemonic. Moving large chunks of memory is something the > Johnny> systems does a lot in I/O, so that really helps if it can be > Johnny> done faster. > > Is that just the MOVC instruction (part of the CIS optional set) or > something else? If CIS is present, RSTS will use MOVC for block move > automatically. No, it's not the MOVC, but the MOVC would probably also be acceptable. RSX have a macro to define the instruction, called MOVR$ It takes three arguments, in the form of three registers. The opcode is 075abc a is source b is destination c is length all as registers. It copies the data according to this. RSX detects wether this instruction exists at boot time, and patches the system if it does, to take advantage of it. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

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Can anyone id these DEC PDP-8(?) cards?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/CESI%20LPC8.jpg third party line printer controller card http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/Emulex%20TU1110406.jpg phase encoding option for the Unibus TU11 controller http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/Emulex%20TU1110406.jpg part of a systems industries disc controller http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/PDP-8%20cards/PN%20140014.jpg probably a third party serial interface with 20ma output (note the opto isolators near the connector)

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> wrote: > >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> writes: > > Tony> I suppose you could include the Pro 325 and 350 (no I/D, F11 > Tony> chip) and the Pro 380 (split I/D, J11 chip). But those will not > Tony> run normal PDP11 software, the I/O is totally different I > Tony> believe. > > It certainly is -- different and very badly conceived. But then > again, Unibus and Q-bus are also different (though not by the same > magnitude). A number of OSs run on PROs -- RT, Unix, P/OS, perhaps > stock RSX as well. And the RSTS standalone initialization module will > boot on a PRO in V9.6, though OS support for it was never released... No, stock RSX will not run. But P/OS is more or less built from the same sources. There are some conditional stuff in the RSX sources for P/OS, and then you need device drivers... So yes, the PRO is different. Same CPU architecture, different I/O architecture. The Q-bus is actually similar enough to Unibus that many devices look same enough to share code between the buses. A few things differ, but few enough that you can conditionalize them, or even in some cases, let the OS hide that difference. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

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Speaking of VTSERVER....

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

What's the status of vtserver v3? And where might I find a copy? Doc

21 years, 2 months

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my computers, status

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > >At 09:48 AM 6/21/05 -0700, you wrote: >>>From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj at wps.com> >>> >>>On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Eric Smith wrote: >>> >>>> Tom wrote: >>>>> Just a quick note on why I've been silent on my DG Nova 4, LGP-21, >>>>> etc all summer... >>>> >>>> Since you're not in the southern hemisphere, I'm not sure what you >>>> mean. Summer doesn't start here in the northern hemisphere for >>>> another few days yet. >>> >>>Summer is when it's warm, winter when it's cold and/or rains. >>>Those are the only two recognizable seasons in Los Angeles. >> >>Hi >> I spent 4 years in Florida and they have two seasons there >>but I'm not sure what you'd call them. During the normal winter >>months, it is hot and muggy. During what we call the summer >>months, it is hotter and muggier. >>Dwight > > Winter = Warm and muggy > Spring = HOT and sweltering > Summer = Alternates between dowsings with scolding rain and solar inferno! > Fall = only four more months of summer! > yes four months, winter is only about 1 1/2 months long here! > > Joe Yes, Joe. That is close to what I remember :) In Florida, when they say there is a 50% chance of rain, they mean that 50% of the people will be rained on. It doesn't have the same meaning as elsewhere. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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Jack Kilby has passed away.

by news＠computercollector.com

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=TMPBSXGZLW0Q QQSNDBESKHA?articleID=164901506 ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Also see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 750 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 2 months

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Various books

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

Asking prices in euro's are between the (). If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask. - Apple IIc User's Guide by Lon Poole (5) - IBM System/36 Procedures and Commands Summary (6) - Analog Devices Databook Volume 1, Integrated Circuits (4) - Sharp PC-7200 MS-DOS Manual (3) - Programmer's Reference Guide to the TI-99/4A (4) - MicroSolutions Backpack Floppy Drive User's Guide (3) - Seikosha SP-180VC Owner's Manual (3) - Seikosha SL-80AI Owner's Manual (3) - Panasonic KX-P1081 Operating Instructions (3) - OKI Microline 290 Series Printer Handbook (3) - D-Link 10BASE-T Ethernet Installation Guide DE-100TP/DE-200TP/DE-300TP (2) - Acorn Electron Plus1 Expansion Unit User Guide (3) - Acorn Electron Brochure (3) - HP Motif 1.1 Information Manual (3) - HP Starbase Reference, HP9000 Computers (5) - Overview of VMS Documentation, for VMS 5.0 (3) - Installing and Using the VT320 Video Terminal, International Model (3) - VT300-Family Supporting Products Guide (3) - Apple Pascal Language Reference Manual (5) - IBM System/36 5363 System Unit Maintenance Information Manual (10) - IBM 7855 Modem Model 10 Guide to Operation (5) - IBM PC 3270 Emulation Program, Entry Level User's Guide (3) - IBM 5291 Models 1 and 2 Operator's Guide (4) - IBM 5291 Model 2 Display Station Maintenance Library (5) - HP 9144A User's Manual (4) - HP 7475A Operation and Interconnection Manual (5) - HP 7475A Interfacing and Programming Manual (4) - Hewlett-Packard 2930 Series Printers Owner's Manual (5) - HP 9144A Quick Reference Guide (2) - Datatrieve For Users Computer-Based Instruction (4) - The Century Computer Programming Course (4) - Guide to Installation of Tallgrass External Units (3) - Tallgrass BackTrack 2.xx User's Manual (3) - <http://www.oldcomputercollection.com/classifieds_1_3/index.php?method=showd…>CP+ User's Guide (5) - <http://www.oldcomputercollection.com/classifieds_1_3/index.php?method=showd…>Datapoint 8603 / 8605 Processor Manual (7) - ASE User's Manual release 0.9 (5) - Codex (Motorola) 2320/2340 Modem User's Manual (3) Thats it for now..... ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com/sale.htm

21 years, 2 months

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Where are my HHC BASIC ROMs?

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Where is Roger Merchberger? I still haven't received my HHC BASIC ROMs which I paid for. __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

21 years, 2 months

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my computers, status

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj at wps.com> > >On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Eric Smith wrote: > >> Tom wrote: >>> Just a quick note on why I've been silent on my DG Nova 4, LGP-21, >>> etc all summer... >> >> Since you're not in the southern hemisphere, I'm not sure what you >> mean. Summer doesn't start here in the northern hemisphere for >> another few days yet. > >Summer is when it's warm, winter when it's cold and/or rains. >Those are the only two recognizable seasons in Los Angeles. Hi I spent 4 years in Florida and they have two seasons there but I'm not sure what you'd call them. During the normal winter months, it is hot and muggy. During what we call the summer months, it is hotter and muggier. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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Paging Bill Yakowenko

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Tried to get ahold of Bill Yakowenko several times, no reply. Anyone have a good email address for him? Jay West

21 years, 2 months

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Heathkit HDOS source listings

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

Yes, I have read that Gordon Letwin worked at Heath before coming to Microsoft. He worked on OS/2 and Windows. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard Beaudry Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:00 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Heathkit HDOS source listings Hello all, I recently acquired a 4-volume set of Heathkit HDOS source listings. They are in assembly langage, printed out on May 16th, 1980. They have nicely printed cover pages from Heathkit, and the rest appear to be photocopies of greenbar paper listings. I haven't examined them completely, but they appear to be intact, readable, and complete. The command processor and BASIC interpreter are definitely there, and there is a lot more as well... I'll post more details if anyone is interested. Also, I don't know if these are archived anywhere. If not, is there interest in getting these scanned and posted? If so, I'll move it to the top of the list. Bear in mind it's at least a 6" high stack, double-side printed, so "top of the stack" may still take a while to do... :-) I found some comments by a "J.G. Letwin". Perchance the same Letwin of OS/2 fame? Thanks, Rich B.

21 years, 2 months

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Heathkit HDOS source listings

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I found some comments by a "J.G. Letwin". Perchance the same Letwin of OS/2 fame? -- Correct. His bio in "Inside OS/2" mentions this.

21 years, 2 months

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Default password for Pick system on an AT?

by richard.beaudry＠gmail.com

On 6/15/05, SP <spedraja at ono.com> wrote: > In my manual of PICK it talks about the SYSPROG account. It comes by default > without password, but of course someone could put one. Sergio, and Jay, and all others, Thanks! SYSPROG did it. No password ... I think this was a "personal use only" system, so no surprise at the lack of password. I did some more targetted Google-ing and found a PDF book on Pick BASIC, so I guess I'm on my way :-) One concern is that I did NOT get any install disks or docs, and the hard drive this is on is an ancient one, making funny noises.... Hopefully it'll last a little while.... Thanks all for the help! Rich B.

21 years, 2 months

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CP/M Software Archive

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Gary Sparkes" <mokuba at gmail.com> > >Well, it seems I've now got hosting space for said archive! > >Now, I need software to put up! > >Don't exactly have a holding place at the moment, so any >Method to get me a few pieces to put up to start us off >Would be REALLY appreciated! Hi As you get these images, always ask what controller is being used for the disk and what I/O card is used for the console. Many of the early machines OEM'd these parts of the system and the boot image for one machine may work for another. It would be great to also index by these parameters as well. I just thought, get the RAM size as well. It is good to know if it is a 32K to 64K system. Can others think of what else should be kept track of? Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8 Digital Software News

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > >At 07:05 AM 6/21/05 -0700, you wrote: >>Al, >> >> Are you listening? >> >> Joe >> >>At 11:43 PM 6/20/05 -0700, you wrote: >> >> I visited Thom today and he gave me a stack of these. They're >>short news >> >>letters that list PDP-8 related issues such as software releases, bug >> >>reports, training classes etc. The ones that I have cover the years >>19176 >> >>through 1978. Are these already on-line somewhere or does someone >>what to >> >>scan them and post them? They're short, only about ten pages each. >> >> >> >> Joe >> > >> >If they're not already online, I should think Al would be the perfect >> >candidate! >> >>-- >> >>Just saw the msg. I should have them scanned, will try to get them on >>line this >>morning, along with the schems for the 8/A semiconductor memory >> >> > > Let me know when you get them on-line and I'll check and see if I have >any different ones. FWIW I found one more this morming. Also dug a HUGE >pile of -8 manuals about of the mountain of DEC manuals that I got last >week. Even found a drawing set for a MINC 11!! > > Joe Hi For glossy surfaces, I've had some luck using Goof Off. It seems to soak into the plastic and remove some stains. I rub it, not soak it. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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1976 software reviews

by aek＠bitsavers.org

it took a while to grind through all of the scans. looks like I actually DON'T have the ones you have. I have 78-80 (about 900 pages) and early ones (pre '74) 198010_PDP8swNews_AA-K629A-BA 198008_PDP8swNews_AA-K357A-BA 198006_PDP8swNews_AA-K033A-BA 198004_PDP8swNews_AA-J871A-BA 198002_PDP8swNews_AA-J639A-BA 197912_PDP8swNews_AA-J442A-BA 197910_PDP8swNews_AA-J235A-BA 197908_PDP8swNews_AA-J115A-BA 197906_PDP8swNews_AA-H941A-BA 197904_PDP8swNews_AA-H820A-BA 197902_PDP8swNews_AA-H674A-BA 197901_PDP8swNews_AA-H554A-BA 197810_PDP8swNews_AA-H199A-BA 197808_PDP8swNews_AA-D977A-BA 197806_PDP8swNews_AA-D770A-BA 197804_PDP8swNews_aa-d604a-ba 197603_PDP8swNews_dec-08-xsmad-a-d 197710_OS8swRev_AA-0877I-BA

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8 Digital Software News

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Al, Are you listening? Joe At 11:43 PM 6/20/05 -0700, you wrote: >> I visited Thom today and he gave me a stack of these. They're short news >>letters that list PDP-8 related issues such as software releases, bug >>reports, training classes etc. The ones that I have cover the years 19176 >>through 1978. Are these already on-line somewhere or does someone what to >>scan them and post them? They're short, only about ten pages each. >> >> Joe > >If they're not already online, I should think Al would be the perfect >candidate! -- Just saw the msg. I should have them scanned, will try to get them on line this morning, along with the schems for the 8/A semiconductor memory

21 years, 2 months

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Vectrex Game goes for $800

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Does anyone know what is so special about this game? BERZERK http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8198941347&category=4315…

21 years, 2 months

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IBM 9348 9-track tape drive

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Sun-labeled ones are what you should watch for. They all seem to have the 800bpi option, and are SE SCSI. -- Spotted one over at Weird Stuff for $50 today. Sun PN 596-1219 The 800bpi option (replacement R/W board) PCB part number is 07980-66531 http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Systems/Sun4/RMVBL_OPT_680.html for a parts breakdown

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8 Digital Software News

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I visited Thom today and he gave me a stack of these. They're short news letters that list PDP-8 related issues such as software releases, bug reports, training classes etc. The ones that I have cover the years 176 through 1978. Are these already on-line somewhere or does someone what to scan them and post them? They're short, only about ten pages each. Joe

21 years, 2 months

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VTSERVER booting

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VTSERVER booting > From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:45:44 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> writes: > > Patrick> On Monday 20 June 2005 12:12, Johnny Billquist wrote: > >> Non I/D: 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20, 11/21, 11/23, 11/24, > >> 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/60. > >> > >> Split I/D: 11/44, 11/45, 11/50, 11/53, 11/55, 11/70, 11/73, 11/74, > >> 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94. > >> > >> Did I forget any? :-) > > Patrick> Pro 325 & 350 - Non-split I&D (F11) Pro 380 - Split I&D > Patrick> (J11) > >Sure. And if you're going there, there are also the PDT110, 130 and >150 (non/ID I assume, but I'm not sure what's inside). > > paul PDT-11/xxx The PDT series are essentialy the same, a 8085 to handle serial IO plus a biderectional 8bit parallel port to either nothing (/110), a parallel IO varient of the TU58 (/130) or a board with another 8085 and 1771 FDC to run two 8" RX01 compatable floppies (/150). The chipset is KD11 (same as LSI-11 and 11/2) sans KEV11 FIS. Runs RT11 and maybe other stuff. Programming the IO is a bit more sane that PRO and some ports emulate DL interface and lines but, it's still not standard unibus or Qbus 11. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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Data Science XOR computer system

by frustum＠pacbell.net

(this is a copy of a message I just sent to the comp.os.cpm user group. I'm relaying it here since these are the two pools of people who might have a line on the information I seek -- sorry to those who lurk both here and there). I was recently given a Data Science XOR computer system, the version with four S-100 slots. There is precious little information on the web -- the one web site with any real information gives credit to "dave coughlin" for the information, but the email address is no longer good. Anyway, here is what condition it is in: The outside of the box is all gummed up and yellow from 20 year old cellophane tape that was used to hold the case together (I'm not sure why the previous owner didn't use screws). A 2"x4" window was put in the side of the case so that the serial port baud rate dip switch could be accessed (why so big a hole?). The insides are pretty dusty and grungy. There are three boards, all Data Science designs it seems. One is the Z80 CPU (4 MHz), two serial ports, one parallel port. The next is a 64 KB DRAM board. The last is the disk controller, with connectors for 8" and 5.25" drives. There are two 8" half height drives in the box. The 50 pin cable from the controller to the drives is missing. The parallel port connector is missing. Nevertheless, after slowly powering up the system with a variac and messing with the baud rate settings, I get the monitor prompt. XOR DATA SCIENCE SYSTEM MONITOR VERS 01.85 F800 I've figured out most of the commands from trial and error, but I'm not sure what the H and X commands do even though I know the parameter syntax. I'm not sure how to boot (if I am ever able to get a boot disk). Unless somebody on this list remembers this monitor, I guess I'll disassemble it (it is 2KB located at F800 to FFFF) and figure it out myself. Better yet, if anybody has a pointer to documents or can and is willing to make a boot disk for me, please reply. In the mean time, I'll work on de-gunking everything. Thanks.

21 years, 2 months

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Still available in UK: 2 sets of BA23 skins

by listmailgoeshere＠gmail.com

Hi list, I didn't succeed in getting rid of these last time, so I'm posting them again: I have 2 sets of BA23 skins available. One is totally complete, the other one is missing (IIRC) the velcro-on rear cover which hides all the cables, and there is a chunk missing out of the base foot. I think one (IIRC, the good one) still has its little transparent plastic envelope stuck to it holding the DEC maintenance card. If you want either/both, please make an offer by private mail. Offers can be from "free" upwards :) Priority will be given to anyone who will come and pick them up (West Yorkshire), but I will ship anywhere as long as you're prepared to a) pay all costs, and b) wait for the amount of time it'll take me to track down boxes big enough for them. Ed.

21 years, 2 months

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How to tell...

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to> wrote: > >Johnny Billquist wrote: > > >Sellam asked if anyone would be able to tell that Magica (a real PDP-11) > >have been replaced by MIM (an emulated PDP-11). > > > >The answer is yes, and no. > >The only telling thing is the speed. It is much faster than a real > >PDP-11/93, which it emulates. But apart from that, I can't see how you > >could tell. > > > Jerome Fine replies: > > It also depends on how much of E11 you decide to use. Um, no. If you setup E11 to emulate an 11/93, it will emulate an 11/93, and you won't be able to tell the difference apart from the speed. > (a) It is possible to define and implement unused PDP-11 > instruction codes that NO real PDP-11 ever uses! My first > preference would be 32 / 64 Bit Integer Add / Subtract > Instructions. That would probably be very low on my list, for several reasons. 1) Doing arbitrary length add/sub with the existing instruction set is so easy it's silly, and with plenty of speed, there is nothing to bother about from that view either. 2) You already have 32-bit integer add/sub in the FPP. 3) Since available opcodes are restricted, you'd have to either implement a prefix opcode, or have severly restricted arguments for such instructions. Mentec implemented one additional instruction that really is useful, and which atleast RSX will use, if it finds it, and that is a block copy instruction. I don't even know if it has a mnemonic. Moving large chunks of memory is something the systems does a lot in I/O, so that really helps if it can be done faster. > (b) John Wilson has a DLL which allows a PDP-11 user to > directly access the PC RAM: via a "register" in the I/O > page. The file is EMEM.DLL (Emulated Memory). Eventually > I intend to replace the uses of the "hardware MMU" in the > software with the EMEM.DLL so that I don't waste the whole > 8,192 bytes of the PAR devoted to the use of the MMU. It > will also be much faster and can be as large as the user > wants - as much memory (100s of MBytes from PC RAM:) as > the PC has available for E11 to use. This would be for > VIRTUAL A(100000000) in FORTRAN, something impossible > with a real PDP-11. I don't really understand how this is related to the MMU, but anyway, we're just talking of a device here, which interfaces to a larger storage. No different than a number of other devices. The MMU is a different deal, and handles virtual to physical address translations. > (c) The MTPS instruction could be modified to have a value > that would specify E11 in addition to any other PDP-11. Sure. > At present, only (b) is actually available - although this > could be done in hardware for a real PDP-11 so it would not > really say it is not a PDP-11/93. But (a) and (c) could > also be done very easily. Does anyone else have any other > requests that they consider important? Anything can be done (obviously), but not much makes much sense. The block copy instruction is among them. Personally, I'd like to see the full stuff of the 11/74 implemented. I'd even be willing to do some work for it, just to see RSX running in MP. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

21 years, 2 months

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