- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Hi, I find myself, in real work, for money and everything, working on an ST20 micro. Little did I know it was a transputer :-) I recall seeing some messages here from people who seemed to be interested in transputers. I'm curious - is there any nice "hints & kinks" on the web for transputers, or a good book or tutorial? It's not that complex but I am curious to hear from anyone "in the know" as it where about ways to make them go fast... (it's so rare when my hobbies cross my day gig. note to self... :-) -brad

20 years, 11 months

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ASR-33 Restoration

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

I recently acquired three ASR-33 teletypes in various conditions. It looks like two of them are complete and one has been scavenged slightly for parts, but appears to be mostly there. I would like to restore at least one and hopefully two of them. I have the technical manual, which I have started reading. I've also googled and found various sites with info, including previous discussions here on CCTALK. Does anyone have any pointers or good reference sites on testing and bringing one of these things back to life? I want to start at ground zero. One of the TTYs seems to power up fine and the motors run, but I can't get the keyboard to type in local mode. The keys don't press down all the way. The shipping bolt was not in place when these were shipped, and I know they were picked up and tilted and moved around, so things inside may be out of alignment. All three have the phone dialer options installed on the right hand side. I don't intend to use the phone dialers, but it would be interesting to have one cleaned up for show. I have another good ASR-33 working and hooked up to my PDP-11/40 on a 20mA DZ11 connection. Any advice is appreciated. In the meantime, I am going to continue surfing for information and reading the technical manual. Thanks, Ashley

20 years, 11 months

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Request to mailing list cctech rejected (fwd)

by vcf＠siconic.com

Is anyone else getting these? I'm not posting to CCTECH. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 01:14:55 -0500 From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org To: vcf at siconic.com Subject: Request to mailing list cctech rejected Your request to the cctech mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: PalmOS no more? :(" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list." Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at: cctech-owner at classiccmp.org

20 years, 11 months

5
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PalmOS no more? :(

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PalmOS no more? :( > From: John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:49:15 -0500 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >At 08:38 PM 9/28/2005, William Donzelli wrote: >>Windows Muntzing. > >I hadn't heard the term, but it's an interesting story: > >http://www.national.com/rap/Story/0,1562,17,00.html I've been doing this to winders since dos and V3.1 on an XT clone with a small hard disk. Before that with RT-11 and VAX/VMS 5.x. Seriously, if you take say W95b and pare out all the junk it's both small and surprizingly robust, this appied especially to MS IE and OE. How small? For W95 with Ip networking it was under 29mb of on disk stuff! I may add that putting Office97 on a W95b/98 system was by far the fastest way to bloat it and destabilize it. The real trick is not pruning it out but changing the install scripts to not put all that cruft in! Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Looking for: BCC180 schematics and..

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I'm looking for schematics for MicroMint BCC180 rev1. Also Imagewise V2.0 reciever (ca1987) the earlier with DB25 connector. Any docs or schematic would help. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Available for pickup.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I dont have these and the person that has them was talking dump real soon. > >Subject: Re: Available for pickup. > From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 04:47:52 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >I'm interested, but it would be at least a couple of >weeks before I could conceivably drive up there. > >--- Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> I take it that I can notify the owner that these >> systems are of no interest >> to anyone here. I cant take them, too much and too >> big. >> >> Allison >> >> >> > >> >Subject: Available for pickup. >> > From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:42:52 -0400 >> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> > >> > >> >I do not hold these but I've been asked if I want >> them. >> > >> >Allison >> > >> > >> >>I sent this earlier to arrl.org, but I thought I >> would also try here. These >> >>are free to the first taker, but that may be the >> rubbish man ! >> >>Apollo 400 >> >>Apollo 715s/50 >> >>Apollo 715t/50 >> >>(2) Apollo 715/64 >> >>Apollo 400 >> > >> > >> >> > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 11 months

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VCF 8 lodging

by news＠computercollector.com

Hi all ... Re: VCF 8 lodging ... Sellam didn't book an official hotel this year. But I just checked with the Residence Inn Palo Alto (last year's official hotel) and they want about 160 per night. Also checked with the Hampton Inn and it's 130 per night. Best yet, the Quality Inn ( http://www.qualityinnmountainview.com ) is just 100 per night during the week, and 64 on weekends! (Granted, I'm staying for five days, and using a AAA discount.) They have hot breakfast, Ethernet in every room, wireless in the business lounge, a free fitness center, and even free laundry facilities. LOL, sounds better than my apartment! I'll be in town by Wed. night if anyone wants to get together pre-VCF. ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Computer Collector Newsletter: http://news.computercollector.com Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists & Museum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/

20 years, 11 months

1
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IBM PC hacking

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

> > Then again, could you do useful word-processing work on a cassette-based > > machine? Anyone who use Atari 8-bit, C64, etc. -- was this common? I assume > > Scripsit (for the TRS-80 Model 1 and 3) was certainly available on a > cassette, with load/save of your text to cassette. It worked, but it > wasn't that practical :-) The BBC micro was cassette-based, but had a word processor in ROM (View). I remember using cassettes to save letters etc. Eventually I saved enough money to buy a single 720K floppy drive by Cumana (sp?). **vp

20 years, 11 months

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conserving paper stick-on IC labels

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

What is the best practice for conserving the stick-on custom labels on programmed logic (PALs, EPROMS, etc.)? I have a number in the IRIS that are falling off because of dried glue, and I'm debating the best way to reattach, or should new ones be made?

20 years, 11 months

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Where can I get DECmail-11?

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Hey I was just curious, because I don't see DECmail-11 listed on Mentec's or HP's website, does that mean that they don't care about DECmail-11 anymore? If so, does anyone know where I can get a copy? Julian

20 years, 11 months

13
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Looking for: BCC180 schematics and..

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Looking for: BCC180 schematics and.. > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:14:07 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> >On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:52:50 -0400 >> >Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> > >> >> I'm looking for schematics for MicroMint BCC180 rev1. >> >> >> > >> >I am too. But MicroMint still sells the Technical Reference and >people >> >here frown on even suggesting anybody share a copy. >> >> I'll have to sell something and go buy it then. I am concerned their >> tech reference is not for Rev1. >> >> >A helpful suggestion is that I found this place: > >http://www.maxipub.com/electro/microcontrollers.html > >They're selling BCC-180 boards used for $90 and say " Each board comes >with instruction manual and software (if needed)". If it comes with the >entire manual, that's a better deal than $25 for the manual alone. > >This appears to be the kind of 'controller' board where there is a >legacy market and the vendor takes the long-term approach of keeping it >commercial for a LONG time. MicroMint still wants $499 for a new >BCC-180. Basic Z80 thing. OK, this case a Z180 but that cpu is one of the legends of the controls industry. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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PCjr (Was Re: IBM PC hacking)

by mbbrutman＠brutman.com

I don't think that the lack of a DMA controller on the PCjr really slowed it down any. The old double density drives have a data rate of 250,000 bps. If the data is presented one byte at a time, that is just 31250 bytes per second. Even with multiple I/O clock cycles per byte to get it to the processor and then to memory, a 4.77Mhz processor can keep up with that easily. Where the lack of DMA would hurt you is on a much faster interface, such as a hard disk. Then you wouldn't have any cycles to spare, the the difference would show up. On a PCjr the lack of DMA shows up most when doing something time critical, such as servicing the serial port. The damn things can not access the floppy drive and run the serial port at the same time. As for the speed of a Jr, it's glacial compared to a PC because the first 128K of memory was shared with the video subsystem. It wasn't dual ported RAM, so the CPU had to wait while the VGA (Video Gate Array) chip refreshed the screen. The system was flexible in that almost 128K of RAM could be allocated to the video buffers, but that feature probably wasn't worth the performance hit. The best speed modification you can make to a Jr is to add more memory, and run your programs and data from there. Leave the first 128K for video and RAM disk. Unfortunately, DOS and the BIOS like to keep a lot of vital data down low, so you can't avoid that memory entirely. One of the Tandy 1000s was similar to the Jr, but they did the memory allocation correctly. They borrowed from the top of memory, not the bottom. That generally hid the performance problem and let DOS use more than 128K of memory without loading a device driver. Yes, a strange machine ... Mike

20 years, 11 months

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Some interesting boards by another seller on Ebay (sanyo, godbout, etc)

by jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu

I would not bother with ebay and have all have to search, but i found boards by several vendors that should be of interest to people on this list. The list of boards looks like one of us died, and all our boards went to this guy. Sanyo ICON Smile Host Interface Board (Used) Sanyo ICON PCP/16 16 Port Serial Board (Used) Sanyo ICON MDCP/3 Interface Board (Used) Sanyo ICON CPU / RISC Board w/ 24MB RAM (Used) Sanyo ICON MPS020-2 MultiBus Adapter w/ Systech Card Konan MFM drive / controller / cables, no software Lots of Godbout boards (counted maybe 5, before I quit) Lots of Atari Stuff (Curt, you interested in older stuff, 400 / 800, etc). INtel Above board. this is interesting if anyone here is running Intel ICE. the support software would not run unless you also had an above board, not an EMS board of generic type, in your 286 or 386 system. 3b2, though I recall someone giving one of those away recently The vendor name is repc_auctions. If this was discussed here and I missed it, I'm still running days behind in getting all emails of the discussion group. Jim

20 years, 11 months

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Looking for: BCC180 schematics and..

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Looking for: BCC180 schematics and.. > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:39:28 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:52:50 -0400 >Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> I'm looking for schematics for MicroMint BCC180 rev1. >> > >I am too. But MicroMint still sells the Technical Reference and people >here frown on even suggesting anybody share a copy. I'll have to sell something and go buy it then. I am concerned their tech reference is not for Rev1. Allison

20 years, 11 months

2
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IBM PC hacking

by mbbrutman＠brutman.com

> The problem with those diagnostics (and most built-in diagnostics) is > that a fairly large part of the machine has to be operational (at > least the CPU, some memory, ROM, video) for them to be at all useful. > -tony One of the lesser known features of the PCjr was the manufacturing test mode. I think output was via the ports on the back. (Not the famous 'L' port though, which appears to have no use.) The manufacturing test mode required a lot less of the machine to be functional than the user level diagnostics or the advanced diagnostics. Even for machines that run diagnostics from disk, assuming that the memory or CPU is ok is a big leap. To do diagnostics correctly you really need an external processor or an onboard service processor like midrange machines do, and the appropriate debug ports on the parts you are going to test. Mike

20 years, 11 months

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Tek Microlab I

by garrstim＠hotmail.com

Joe, Do you still have the Tektronix Microlab I? Thanks, Barry H.

20 years, 11 months

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OT: Ham radio news

by news＠computercollector.com

http://www.connpost.com/news/ci_3068326 Helping hurricane victims. ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Computer Collector Newsletter: http://news.computercollector.com Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists & Museum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/

20 years, 11 months

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MSX software was Re: IBM PC hacking

by h.otten＠chello.nl

> Speaking of cassette based software and whatnot, in > the absence of a floppy drive, and my understanding is > there was one available, not that I'm likely to find > it anytime soon, what are my options for running (any) > software for the Yamaha CX5M I just appropriated? It >does have a cassette port and cartridge port. Are >images of stuph available anywhere? I suppose I could >build a generic cartridge and dump images onto an >eprom or something like that. What about adapting a >drive from some other z80 based puter? There are programs to load cassete based programs from the PC soundcard to the cassette port of a MSX like your CX5M. Look for http://www.faq.msxnet.org/suffix.html#CAS http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~vincentd/ and www.funet.fi/pub/msx for msx cassette files External floppy drives for MSX are rare. But an external IDE interface is easy to construct, lookt at the Beer interface on my webpage and generic CX5M hardware information. Hans. http://www.hansotten,com

20 years, 11 months

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Hobbyist VMS

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Hi folks, Anyone here with the hobbyist VMS CDs able to stick the C compiler up on some webspace for me to download please? I'm on the program myself but didn't get the CDs because I've got 2001-era layered products CDs that would normally do fine, but as I've discovered in setting up an Alpha 3000-300LX as a webserver said CDs are 250 miles away and I don't fancy talking my missus through setting up my MicroVAX 3100-90 and sticking it on the network (I know, I know, why isn't it already online :o)) I've googled my arse off for an up-to-date version of GNU C that will work with VMS 7.3-2 and have downloaded v2.7.1 in various flavours, v2.8.0 and v4.0.1 but the only VMS specific stuff is 2.7.1 and it's not behaving correctly when I'm trying to compile apps. I could hack the 2.7.1 .CLD file so it works with later versions but it's nearly midnight in the UK and I'm tired :) Anyone? An e-beer or iBeer is available. -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?

20 years, 11 months

2
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FA: Interdata computer boards, 1970s

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I just finished listing a pile of early 70s Interdata computer boards on E-bay. Most seem to be for the 8/16 but the core memory (32k) is also used in the 8/32. <http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrigdonjQQhtZ-1> Joe

20 years, 11 months

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New Images: Altos/Kaypro/MicroMint/Grid

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Guys, I've updated the archive with several new images that have been recently submitted: Altos 586 developer disks (also has MPM & some other goodies) Kaypro 3*83 and Kaypro 10 MicroMint SB-180 Grid Compass 1101 (Original Grid) I've also posted a minor update to ImageDisk (1.06) - no major fixes or functionality change - just cosmecics and minor enhancementws. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 11 months

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Available for pickup.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Available for pickup. > From: C Fernandez <fernande at internet1.net> > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:12:20 -0400 > To: General at internet1.net, "Discussion at internet1.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison, > >You didn't post any location, but specified pickup. Ok, Billerica MA. No shipping possible. Enough to fill a small car and very heavy. I do not wish to be a shipping broker. Allison > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Allison wrote: >> I take it that I can notify the owner that these systems are of no interest >> to anyone here. I cant take them, too much and too big. >> >> Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Available for pickup.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Available for pickup. > From: "John Allain" <allain at panix.com> > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:20:42 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >>> Apollo 400, 715s/50, 715t/50, (2) 715/64, 400 > >> I take it that I can notify the owner that these systems are of >> no interest to anyone here. I cant take them, too much and too >> big. > >I could use some words as to size,location, and condition. >Boot floppies are not likely easy to find, even *rare* on eBay. > >John A. If you know what they are then the size is obvious. I believe they are deskside to desktop and heavy. I have no data and the current holder is planning a dump run with them. I already posted where they are. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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PDP stuff & location sought for movie

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Someone wants to film a short (~10 minutes) section of film for a non-profit movie in the central florida area. They are looking for someone who has 70's vintage PDP machines with mag tapes & such. Semi-operating condition preferred. I'm under the impression they'd film where the gear is, so it wouldn't have to be moved. If anyone can help please email me off-list. Jay >---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am doing prop research for an upcoming student short film which aims to recreate a minicomputer laboratory setting from 1970 and include some close-up shots on various minicomputer gear of the era, such as the large reel tape based memory storage units and monochrome consoles. I happened upon the PDP-11 in course of my research and I thought I'd just go ahead and ask if there is anywhere in the state of Florida where we could accomplish this goal of using authentic 1970's minicomputer hardware in the film. The runtime will only be 5-10 minutes and the crew and set should be relatively compact. I'd appreciate any information or pointers you can help us with. Thank you!

20 years, 11 months

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MVME 712/M

by jdrcpeterson＠graceba.net

Anyone interested in Motorola MVME 712/M network boards for sale? jdp

20 years, 11 months

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Tristate Buffer Output if Input is High-Z?

by korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu

> I'm still futzing about with this IIfx SIMM idea. I plan to use a > pair of SN74ABT241A octal buffers to make the 16M X 4 chips look as > if they have separate Din and Dout pins. And I planned to use the > WE_ signal as the control to the buffers. > > However, it occurred to me that the computer might hold WE high at > all times except during writes. This would leave the Dout path > enabled almost all the time, which might interfere with other > activity on the data bus. It finally sunk into my brain what you are trying to do. Since I'm reading this on cctech with its day or two delay, this has probably been covered, but I'm sending it anyway. The purpose of the separate Din and Dout is that the IIfx SIMMs latched the write data so it could start the next read cycle before the write cycle was complete, saving a cycle or two at 40 MHz. I'm not sure that your idea will work for that. I think you'll need a tristate latch on the Din, maybe latched with WE# and enabled by WE# | CAS#. Dout could be tristated to ~(WE# | CAS#) | OE#. (if there is a separate OE#) There are a lot of caveats, though. I'm assuming that there is never a R/W cycle. I'm also assuming your DRAM outputs remain at high Z throughout a write only (aka "early write") cycle regardless of the state of OE#. If your DRAMS support this you can just ground the DRAM OE# and forget about it and just worry about when to tristate your buffers. Also watch out for systems that use WE# and OE# interchangably or mix them in funky ways. Your best bet is to study your DRAM datasheets carefully. It would be nice to have a IIfx timing diagram. I certainly don't have a logic analyzer fast enough for this task.... Eric

20 years, 11 months

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SIMM, Address Lines Order?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> 1) The RAS only, and Hidden Refresh cycles involve a Row address >> supplied on the address lines. So, unless there's some undocumented >> requirement that these address be supplied in a particular order, I >> don't think that will cause a problem. However, I recognize that >> sometimes datasheets (and documentation in general) assume general >> knowledge about the topic. So if there is some implicit assumption >> about the addresses supplied during a refresh, I'd appreciate someone >> explaining it to me. > >I've never head of such a requirement, only that all 2^n states of the >address lines are used within a certain time. > >The only issue is if only some of the address lines to the RAM are used >for refresh, then you have to make sure those are kept together (but you >can scramble their order, just as you can scramble the order of the ones >not used in the refresh operation). > >-tony Hi This is what I was talking about with the A0-A6. You need to see how many cycles are needed for refresh. This should be in the spec. You need to determine how many address lines are needed to complete that cycle. As an example. If it is a 128 cycle refresh A0-A6 need to be grouped as Tony states. If it is 256 cycle, A0-A7 need to be grouped and so on. The cycles tells you how many addresses need to be cycled through on a refresh to get all of the internal banks. They always assume starting with A0 on to figure. Between what Tony and I are saying, does it make sense?? Dwight

20 years, 11 months

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Looking for IBM PC/XT/AT technical references

by richard.beaudry＠gmail.com

Hello all, My latest "refocusing" of the collection is on IBM PC hardware (PC/XT/AT, original IBM cards, peripherals, etc.) and on software IBM sold for the PC line. In line with this, I'm also very interested in any technical manuals IBM produced. So far my meager technical manual collection is: 1. Guide to operations (PC, XT, AT) 2. Technical Reference (XT, AT) 3. Hardware Maintenance and Service (XT, AT) All of the above are originals, and the AT Maintenance set includes diagnostics from 1.01 to 1.05 along with loopback testers, and what looks like a 10-BASE2 terminator (or maybe Arcnet??). I'd like to get: 1. Technical Reference (PC) 2. Hardware Maintenance and Service (PC) Original, copies, or scans will do ... Also, I'm wondering what other technical manuals exist. I know there is an "options and adapters" series, but what else is there? Oh, and if anyone is junking a PC-1 (black power supply, 16-64KB motherboard), I'll take it :-) Thanks for pointers, Rich B.

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:18:41 +0200 > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >Thanks, Frank and Allison. >I guess, now is a good moment to start reading the LSI-11 handbook >and to look out for a bootstrap kind of module ! Is there a specific >module to look for, or are there several possibilities? Remember, >this system only has 4 slots (almost 2 occupied), and I want to add >at least modules to get some parallel I/O (TTL) lines, and to boot >the system from (Pete Collum's RXV11) ... Rev11 is available most commonly with RXV11/21 floppy boot and others that exist for paper tape boot and maybe other disks. It's not essential as a boot prom as most boots are small and uODT can be used to hand load them. >The idea that I have for this system is the following. >I want to use a small 486 system as terminal and mass storage. >The parallel I/O will interface to a filter-based RTTY demodulator. >Software (to be written) will turn this setup to a telex reception >station (transmitting RTTY will follow!) I know that many programs >already exist for this (not on PDP-11), but I want to learn MACRO-11 >and learning a language goes best if you have an application idea. >I expect it will not be difficult, after I learned the way MACRO-11 >wants its assembly text, because it looks quite like M68000 mnemonics. >That will probably cause some pitfalls, but I must look up all the >PDP-11 mnemonics in the beginning anyway. RTTY can also be done with a serial line card. The only thing is baud rate setting (external switch) for multiple rates. If you can find a DLV11J (thats 4 serial ports on one dual width card) or MXV11 (2 serial ports +ram +rom) that would save slots. One thought, a M7270(KD-11F) OR M8186(KDF-11A) and M8047(mxv11) will be a complete system on two dual width cards (cpu, 2 serial, ram and eprom). It will need about 4A of +5 and under 1A of +12 power. An alternate CPU is the falcon card M8063 (Kxt11 SBC11/21) which also has ram, Eprom, two serial lines and parallel io with a Qbus interface. Common as can be but rarely seen as they are often embedded in larger systems (like a NC milling machine). The above was typical of how LSI-11 series componenets were used in embedded systems. The instruction set for PDP11 is more regular than 68k and very orthoginal CISC. Do read the various dec PDP-11 programming books as it's a flexible machine and relocatable code is easy to do. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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SIMM, Address Lines Order?

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:18:24 -0600 >From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> >Subject: Re: SIMM, Address Lines Order? >der Mouse wrote: >>>When connecting DRAM chips to the pins of a SIMM (i.e. laying out the >>>traces) does it matter if the order of the address and data lines is >>>preserved? [...] >> >> >> What about refreshes? (This is a question, not a challenge; I do not >> know enough about how dynamic RAM refresh works to know whether this >> really is relevant. But it seems to me that it might be.) >> > >Just that all of them gets refeshed in the alloted time. >Note they just have to be read for refesh. Still you better >check the data sheets if you got them for the fine print. I do have the data sheets. I am planning to use the KM44C16100 from Samsung. Looking at the various refresh options in the datasheet: 1) The RAS only, and Hidden Refresh cycles involve a Row address supplied on the address lines. So, unless there's some undocumented requirement that these address be supplied in a particular order, I don't think that will cause a problem. However, I recognize that sometimes datasheets (and documentation in general) assume general knowledge about the topic. So if there is some implicit assumption about the addresses supplied during a refresh, I'd appreciate someone explaining it to me. 2) During CAS before RAS refresh, the address lines are listed as 'don't cares'. In other weirdness, I never saw the "der Mouse" reply to my posting, so I checked the cctalk archives, on a hunch. There are several replies to my posting in cctalk which never appeared in the cctech digest or archive. Is this normal? How are the two lists organized wrt each other? Does cctalk see all the cctech postings, but not vice versa? It creates difficulties if folks on cctalk reply to cctech postings by emailing to cctalk. Is it assumed that everyone is subscribed to both? I am happy to adjust as necessary. I just don't understand the arrangement, yet. * Jim Battle frustum at pacbell.net writes: > Burst mode DRAMs could be a problem. I mis-wrote. These DRAMs have a Fast Page mode--not a burst mode. I was mislead by discussion of burst reads in "The Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware" but I believe those burst reads are between the CPU and the memory controller chip in the IIfx. I should have written Fast Page mode, during which a Row address is supplied with the RAS, then a series of Column address is supplied while strobing the CAS for each change in Column address. Because the addresses are explicitly supplied, I don't think that reordering the address pins should cause any problems. A FP read will still stay within the same page (row address) for a given DRAM chip. > One last thing. There were DRAMs that used a different number of >address lines > for RAS than for CAS. Good point. These are 12 X 12, 16M X 4 chips, so that should not be an issue. If they were 13 X 11, I'd need to make sure that the upper two address line orders were preserved? > As a disclaimer, I have designed, implemented and shipped a number (10?) of > DRAM controllers, both in TTL and in ASIC forms, but the most recent to ship > was about 1991, so some details might have faded. The computer for which I'm building the SIMMs was released around 1991, so there's a nice symmetry there. * Allison ajp166 at bellatlantic.net writes: > Tim Olmstead wrote a Z80 Dram interfacing manual Google turned it up. Thank you for pointing it out. * Dwight K. Elvey dwight.elvey at amd.com writes: > Only that the first address lines that are used for refresh > need to be grouped. As example for a 128 cycle refresh, that would > be that one could mix any of the A0-A6 lines. This is because > of how the blocks of RAM are accessed and then selected by > a mux to the output. Can you elaborate on this. I must be missing some key bit of information about refresh. I get that 7 address lines are 128 addresses or blocks of RAM if one is just talking about Row addresses. But how does that mean that some address lines can be mixed and others not? Is there a refresh mode where multiple blocks are chosen at one time--where the upper address bits are defined, but the lower bits are don't cares? That's not mentioned in the datasheet, but just because it isn't mentioned, doesn't mean it isn't assumed. I've been trying to find out which refresh scheme the IIfx uses, but haven't found it in the limited documentation I have here. I have a feeling I've read it somewhere...darn it. Thank you for all the comments and help folks, Jeff

20 years, 11 months

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Restoring (and I do mean 'Restoring!') Plastic

by Ladyelec＠aol.com

In a message dated 9/26/05 8:02:30 AM Central Daylight Time, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org writes: > For a good example of HDPE, you need go no further than your wastebasket or > garbage can--or the liner bag in a box of corn flakes. I've tried to > mechanically polish the stuff, but it's soft and any abrasive is easily embedded in > the surface and it tends to get "stringy" if it gets warm under the buffing > wheel. Have you tried Dow Scrubbing bubbles bathroom cleaner and a scotch pad? Spray the cleaner on and let it set a few minutes , spray again then use scotch pad. Isa

20 years, 11 months

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Available for pickup.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

These are local to me, eastern MA area. I'll contanct the owner to be more definitive. Allison > >Subject: Re: Available for pickup. > From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:23:26 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >I take it that I can notify the owner that these systems are of no interest >to anyone here. I cant take them, too much and too big. > >Allison > > >> >>Subject: Available for pickup. >> From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:42:52 -0400 >> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> >> >>I do not hold these but I've been asked if I want them. >> >>Allison >> >> >>>I sent this earlier to arrl.org, but I thought I would also try here. These >>>are free to the first taker, but that may be the rubbish man ! >>>Apollo 400 >>>Apollo 715s/50 >>>Apollo 715t/50 >>>(2) Apollo 715/64 >>>Apollo 400 >> >>

20 years, 11 months

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Micro-fiche to PDF

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi, Does anyone has any experience in transfering IBM Micro-fiche images to PDF ? I have several old IBM manuals on micro-fiche. Regards Henk

20 years, 11 months

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Tristate Buffer Output if Input is High-Z?

by trag＠io.com

If a tristate buffer is enabled by its control line, but the input to the buffer is at high-Z is there a typical output? I checked the relevant datasheet, but this situation isn't covered. There's timing for when the buffer is enabled and the input switches >from L to H or H to L, but nothing about the input at high-Z. The truth table as written in the datasheet: 2OE 2A 2Y H H H H L L L X Z I need another row for 2OE 2A 2Y H Z ? Where OE is the control, A is the input and Y is the output. I'm still futzing about with this IIfx SIMM idea. I plan to use a pair of SN74ABT241A octal buffers to make the 16M X 4 chips look as if they have separate Din and Dout pins. And I planned to use the WE_ signal as the control to the buffers. However, it occurred to me that the computer might hold WE high at all times except during writes. This would leave the Dout path enabled almost all the time, which might interfere with other activity on the data bus. Once CAS goes high, the Dout of the DRAM chips would go back to high-Z, so the computer designers would figure, leaving WE_ high most times is fine. DRAM output is high-Z unless one just did a read with a CAS signal. But if I'm feeding the DRAM output into a tristate buffer this might not work. The high-Z from the DRAM goes to the buffer as input. The WE_ signal enables the buffer. What comes out the other end of the tristate buffer onto the data bus? If the buffer drives the data bus in this situation, then this won't work. I really don't want to add an AND gate and an inverter so I can change OE for the tristate buffer to WE*CAS'. Of course, if WE_ is floating most of the time, it's not a problem. I just lightly tie OE to GND and when WE floats, the buffer outputs go to high-Z. But I can't count on that. Run off a set with spaces for all the possible control signals I can imagine and experiment? Jeff Walther

20 years, 11 months

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EMS ROMs for the HP-87

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

Some people have asked me for such ROMs (which allow an HP87 or HP86 computer to access newer disc drives such as the HP-9122) in the past. There is an eBay auction at http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-87-ROMS-5-Each_W0QQitemZ6806475882QQcategoryZ172QQss… for three EMS ROMs. Note that the auction is NOT run by me, nor do I know the seller. **vp

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Allison > Sent: dinsdag 27 september 2005 16:18 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: (no subject) > > > > >Subject: (no subject) > > From: Frank Arnold <fm.arnold at gmx.net> > > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:24:06 +0100 > > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > > >> > >>Message: 28 > >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:42:48 +0200 > >>From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> > >>Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> On Sep 26 2005, 8:40, Gooijen, Henk wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> <-- M7270 -LSI11/2--> <--- M8044 MSV11----> > >>> <------ empty ------> <--- M7940 DLV11----> > >>> <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> > >>> <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> > > > > >Henk, there is no bootstrap in this system.... > > > >> > >>The FieldGuide says that a few lines are used for something > >>else, but I expect (hope) that the M7270 and the M7264 usage > >>of all connections is identical. > > > >No, I think only the LSI11 suplies refresh to the bus, > >LSI11/02 does not. > >They use some of the sspare lines for that, that much later got > >used for Adressbits 19-21 once Q-bus got Q22 > > Correct on refresh, the 7270 does not provide it (not needed > for 8044 memory). > However, the unused microcode lines are not used for refresh. > Those are use for special (unimplmented) microcode. > > >>Regarding the M8018 WCS option: is this "just" a chip, like > >>FIS or the big CIS one? > > > >Those are LSI11/23 options... > > The M8018 KUV11-AA is for the M7264 (LSI-11, KD11-f), I have > also tested it with M7270 (LSI11/2)(sort of a hack). > > There was a microcode WCS option for the 11/23. It is also a > board. I don't think it was ever sold. There was a FPU option > M8188 (FPF11) a quad width board for the 11/23 that was sold. > > >Unfortunately I dont have this (still hunting), but yes, it > >is a board. It takes only the power from the Q-bus and connects > >with a flatcable to the microm socket on the LSI-11 module. > >I also heard the fact that this works (or was DEC-supported) only > >on the quad LSI11, but can't see a good reason for this, as the > >chipset is identical. It even has the empty socket to connect the > >WCS-option. Maybe the engineering drawings will tell more. > > It was design specific for the M7264-YC though it seemed to > work with any of the M7264 or M7270 modules (microcode > address specific caveat). > The DEC supported config was on the M7264-YC. The difference > is that each microm socket has a unique microcode address and > is diagnostic specific. > > Allison Thanks, Frank and Allison. I guess, now is a good moment to start reading the LSI-11 handbook and to look out for a bootstrap kind of module ! Is there a specific module to look for, or are there several possibilities? Remember, this system only has 4 slots (almost 2 occupied), and I want to add at least modules to get some parallel I/O (TTL) lines, and to boot the system from (Pete Collum's RXV11) ... The idea that I have for this system is the following. I want to use a small 486 system as terminal and mass storage. The parallel I/O will interface to a filter-based RTTY demodulator. Software (to be written) will turn this setup to a telex reception station (transmitting RTTY will follow!) I know that many programs already exist for this (not on PDP-11), but I want to learn MACRO-11 and learning a language goes best if you have an application idea. I expect it will not be difficult, after I learned the way MACRO-11 wants its assembly text, because it looks quite like M68000 mnemonics. That will probably cause some pitfalls, but I must look up all the PDP-11 mnemonics in the beginning anyway. Fun job for this winter! 73, - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 11 months

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Tristate Buffer Output if Input is High-Z?

by korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu

On 9/26/05, Jeff Walther <trag at io.com> wrote: > > If a tristate buffer is enabled by its control line, but the input to > the buffer is at high-Z is there a typical output? If there is it probably varies between parts. If you need a defined output for tristated inputs you should pull the inputs up or down. Eric

20 years, 11 months

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(no subject)

by fm.arnold＠gmx.net

> >Message: 28 >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:42:48 +0200 >From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> >Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > >> -----Original Message----- >> On Sep 26 2005, 8:40, Gooijen, Henk wrote: >> >> >> > <-- M7270 -LSI11/2--> <--- M8044 MSV11----> ================== >> > <------ empty ------> <--- M7940 DLV11----> | o o __ __ __ | >> > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | >> > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== >> > Henk, there is no bootstrap in this system.... > >The FieldGuide says that a few lines are used for something else, but >I expect (hope) that the M7270 and the M7264 usage of all connections >is identical. No, I think only the LSI11 suplies refresh to the bus, LSI11/02 does not. They use some of the sspare lines for that, that much later got used for Adressbits 19-21 once Q-bus got Q22 > >Regarding the M8018 WCS option: is this "just" a chip, like FIS or the >big CIS one? Those are LSI11/23 options... >I thought it was a board (module) as the M number suggests. >Anybody here has a M8018 WCS and can tell more about it? > Unfortunately I dont have this (still hunting), but yes, I is a board. It takes only the power from the Q-bus and connects with a flatcable to the microm socket on the LSI-11 module. I also heard the fact that this works (or was DEC-supported) only on the quad LSI11, but can't see a good reason for this, as the chipset is identical. It even has the empty socket to connect the WCS-option. Maybe the engineering drawings will tell more. Frank

20 years, 11 months

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Tristate Buffer Output if Input is High-Z?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I think his issue is trying to seperate the common data bus to Din and Dout for the chips. However with most drams that can be handled with WE/and Ras/ timing if memory serves thus avoiding that tristate buffer. Allison > >Subject: Re: Tristate Buffer Output if Input is High-Z? > From: "ROBO5.8" <robo58 at optonline.net> > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:47:53 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >Most TTL (74xxx) series parts have pull up resistors on their inputs so they >will typically interpret a High-Z condition as a "1" or high input. > >I'm not sure what you're trying to do with the separate Din/Dout >configuration. Are you trying to interface the 16Mx4 chip onto an existing >motherboard or memory card or design a new add in card? That info would >help with the advice. > >Robo > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Walther" <trag at io.com> >To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> >Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 7:09 PM >Subject: Re: Tristate Buffer Output if Input is High-Z? > > >> If a tristate buffer is enabled by its control line, but the input to the >> buffer is at high-Z is there a typical output? >> >> I checked the relevant datasheet, but this situation isn't covered. >> There's timing for when the buffer is enabled and the input switches from >> L to H or H to L, but nothing about the input at high-Z. >> >> The truth table as written in the datasheet: >> >> 2OE 2A 2Y >> H H H >> H L L >> L X Z >> >> I need another row for >> >> 2OE 2A 2Y >> H Z ? >> >> Where OE is the control, A is the input and Y is the output. >> >> I'm still futzing about with this IIfx SIMM idea. I plan to use a pair >> of SN74ABT241A octal buffers to make the 16M X 4 chips look as if they >> have separate Din and Dout pins. And I planned to use the WE_ signal as >> the control to the buffers. >> >> However, it occurred to me that the computer might hold WE high at all >> times except during writes. This would leave the Dout path enabled almost >> all the time, which might interfere with other activity on the data bus. >> >> Once CAS goes high, the Dout of the DRAM chips would go back to high-Z, so >> the computer designers would figure, leaving WE_ high most times is fine. >> DRAM output is high-Z unless one just did a read with a CAS signal. >> >> But if I'm feeding the DRAM output into a tristate buffer this might not >> work. The high-Z from the DRAM goes to the buffer as input. The WE_ >> signal enables the buffer. What comes out the other end of the tristate >> buffer onto the data bus? If the buffer drives the data bus in this >> situation, then this won't work. >> >> I really don't want to add an AND gate and an inverter so I can change OE >> for the tristate buffer to WE*CAS'. >> >> Of course, if WE_ is floating most of the time, it's not a problem. I just >> lightly tie OE to GND and when WE floats, the buffer outputs go to high-Z. >> But I can't count on that. >> >> Run off a set with spaces for all the possible control signals I can >> imagine and experiment? >> >> Jeff Walther >> >

20 years, 11 months

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(no subject)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: (no subject) > From: Frank Arnold <fm.arnold at gmx.net> > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:24:06 +0100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >>Message: 28 >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:42:48 +0200 >>From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> >>Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> On Sep 26 2005, 8:40, Gooijen, Henk wrote: >>> >>> >>> > <-- M7270 -LSI11/2--> <--- M8044 MSV11----> ================== >>> > <------ empty ------> <--- M7940 DLV11----> | o o __ __ __ | >>> > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | >>> > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== >>> > > >Henk, there is no bootstrap in this system.... > >> >>The FieldGuide says that a few lines are used for something else, but >>I expect (hope) that the M7270 and the M7264 usage of all connections >>is identical. > >No, I think only the LSI11 suplies refresh to the bus, LSI11/02 does not. >They use some of the sspare lines for that, that much later got used for >Adressbits 19-21 once Q-bus got Q22 Correct on refresh, the 7270 does not provide it (not needed for 8044 memory). However, the unused microcode lines are not used for refresh. Those are use for special (unimplmented) microcode. >>Regarding the M8018 WCS option: is this "just" a chip, like FIS or the >>big CIS one? > >Those are LSI11/23 options... The M8018 KUV11-AA is for the M7264 (LSI-11, KD11-f), I have also tested it with M7270 (LSI11/2)(sort of a hack). There was a microcode WCS option for the 11/23. It is also a board. I don't think it was ever sold. There was a FPU option M8188 (FPF11) a quad width board for the 11/23 that was sold. >Unfortunately I dont have this (still hunting), but yes, I is a board. It >takes only the power from the Q-bus and connects with a flatcable to the >microm socket on the LSI-11 module. >I also heard the fact that this works (or was DEC-supported) only on the >quad LSI11, but can't see a good reason for this, as the chipset is >identical. It even has the empty socket to connect the WCS-option. >Maybe the engineering drawings will tell more. It was design specific for the M7264-YC though it seemed to work with any of the M7264 or M7270 modules (microcode address specific caveat). The DEC supported config was on the M7264-YC. The difference is that each microm socket has a unique microcode address and is diagnostic specific. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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seeking connection cable for RK07 drive

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hi all, I finally got to set up my PDP-11/34C with TU80 and two RK07 drives. Given the space in my "museum", the RK07 drives are not immediately next to the 11/34 rack. I am looking for an RK07 cable, part number 70-12292-25 or 70-12292-40 (25 or 40 foot length). The cable *looks* like the RL01/RL02 cable, but is not identical ! You can use the RK06/RK07 cable with RL01/RL02 drives, but not the other way around, because the RK06/RK07 cable has a few extra pins actually connected (which the RL drives does not need). That's what I've heard long ago ... If you have a 70-12292-25 or 70-12292-40 and no longer need it, I will gladly pay or trade for it. See my website (www.pdp-11.nl) for the "spare boards" list, although it is not up-to-date / correct. TIA, - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 11 months

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PDP 11 floppy disk question.

by wenz.martin＠provac-gmbh.de

Hi, I?ve bought an TEAC FD55GFR184U floppy, but it?s still not working with an MXV22 or RQDX3 controller. I think it must be jumpered to DD, but can?nt find a manual or othes docs. Do you have some hints for configuration? Thanks for answering. Martin wenz.m at web.de

20 years, 11 months

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Wild-hair floppy drive question

by wenz.martin＠provac-gmbh.de

Hi Randy, I found your mail to tony Duell were you talked about configuration-problems with an FD55-floppy. I also have the problem to connect an FD55GFR184-drive with an RQDX3 or MXV21 controller and no manual. I tried some jumpers, but it?s not working. Can you help? Martin wenz.m at web.de

20 years, 11 months

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State of the art

by tomj＠wps.com

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005, Chuck Guzis wrote: > I did locate his website and he apparently is still flogging postscript along with a fw other of his pet projects: > > http://www.tinaja.com > > And, yes, he's advocating Postscript for general math usage (now using Acrobat Distiller). Here's a sample: > > http://www.tinaja.com/text/onesword.html Umm yeah, Don does tend towards enthusiasm for his ideas. I did use his PostScript stuff in a project; PostScript to "turtle graphics" (motion eg. N N N PENDOWN E E E PENUP S S S... where N, S, E are compass directions) followed by simple run-length compression, subsequent data blocked and punched on paper tape and a simple PIC-based box drove an analog plotter, and my favorite, a Tek 565? storage scope. "Real Soon Now" (to quote another crusty SOB) I will finish my microdisintegrator, a surplus stepper-drive XY table (some 30 microinch resolution) for engraving metal with arbitrary text and images. It'll use the same tech to drive the XY table and disintegrator "pen" from postscript. Illustrator to metal!

20 years, 11 months

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SIMM, Address Lines Order?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: SIMM, Address Lines Order? > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:24:22 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:35:16 -0400 >Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> Tim Olmstead wrote a Z80 Dram interfacing manual thats around the net >> and cover simms as well as the ram on them. Very useful. I have an >> electronic copy locally if needed. >> > >The Z80 has DRAM refresh functionality built right into the processor, >if I'm remembering right. You remember right but there was a gotcha. the Z80 refresh was only 7bits and about half the 64k drams requried a 256 (8bit) refresh. the solution was with later parts you could do cas/ only refresh and that used the Drams (later parts and those used for simms) internal counter for refresh address. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Odd floppy drives (Helitron)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Odd floppy drives (Helitron) > From: "John Allain" <allain at panix.com> > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:30:15 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> He claims that he was the inventor of the basic >> floppy mechanism ... This was around 1980, maybe 1979. > >69 ~ 70? >I mean, by 1980 floppies were down to 5.25" and the 8" >had been out well over 5 years. Maybe the guy with the >knob drive was lying even harder than you suspected. > >John A. Definately older than 1974. The oddest I'd seen was Ionovex The mech was about 8" high and about as wide but the media was a web of mylar with oxide and the head spun under it with a variable radius. Strange affair. I got to see it as bare drive but never as part of a system. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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SIMM, Address Lines Order?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Scott Stevens" <chenmel at earthlink.net> > >On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:35:16 -0400 >Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> > >> >Subject: Re: SIMM, Address Lines Order? >> > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> >> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:18:24 -0600 >> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ><cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> > >> >der Mouse wrote: >> >>>When connecting DRAM chips to the pins of a SIMM (i.e. laying out >the >> >>>traces) does it matter if the order of the address and data lines >is >> >>>preserved? [...] >> >> >> >> >> >> What about refreshes? (This is a question, not a challenge; I do >not >> >> know enough about how dynamic RAM refresh works to know whether >this >> >> really is relevant. But it seems to me that it might be.) >> >> >> > >> >Just that all of them gets refeshed in the alloted time. >> >Note they just have to be read for refesh. Still you better >> >check the data sheets if you got them for the fine print. >> >> If your using cas\ only refresh then the data lines are not used >> as that is done with internal refresh counter. >> >> Tim Olmstead wrote a Z80 Dram interfacing manual thats around the net >> and cover simms as well as the ram on them. Very useful. I have an >> electronic copy locally if needed. >> > >The Z80 has DRAM refresh functionality built right into the processor, >if I'm remembering right. > Hi Only 128 cycle. Be careful. Some RAMs are 256 cycle. Dwight

20 years, 11 months

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SIMM, Address Lines Order?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: SIMM, Address Lines Order? > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:18:24 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >der Mouse wrote: >>>When connecting DRAM chips to the pins of a SIMM (i.e. laying out the >>>traces) does it matter if the order of the address and data lines is >>>preserved? [...] >> >> >> What about refreshes? (This is a question, not a challenge; I do not >> know enough about how dynamic RAM refresh works to know whether this >> really is relevant. But it seems to me that it might be.) >> > >Just that all of them gets refeshed in the alloted time. >Note they just have to be read for refesh. Still you better >check the data sheets if you got them for the fine print. If your using cas\ only refresh then the data lines are not used as that is done with internal refresh counter. Tim Olmstead wrote a Z80 Dram interfacing manual thats around the net and cover simms as well as the ram on them. Very useful. I have an electronic copy locally if needed. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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DEC H605E

by aw288＠osfn.org

OK, what does a DEC H605E Motor Drive Amplifier go in? It is a six by eight board with four TO-3 transistors, heatsinked, plus a few diodes and stuff. William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org

20 years, 11 months

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SIMM, Address Lines Order?

by trag＠io.com

When connecting DRAM chips to the pins of a SIMM (i.e. laying out the traces) does it matter if the order of the address and data lines is preserved? In other words, does A0 on the SIMM need to connect to A0 on the chip, and A0 on all the other chips as well? These are old DRAM, such as FPM or EDO, used in 30 pin SIMMs. Nothing new and fancy like SDRAM. I believe the answer is no. But I know from experience that there are sometimes odd scenarios that are easily overlooked, so I figured I'd access the shared experience and knowledge here. It's a lot easier to layout the PCB for the SIMMs, if I don't preserve order. And it shouldn't matter, because anything that gets stored at address X should come back out on a read to address X. The only circumstance I can think of that could cause a problem is if the RAM has some kind of sequential read mode where consequeutive addresses are expected. Reading the datasheet, I don't see a mode like that. The closest thing is a burst mode where the Row address stays constant and a series of Column addresses are supplied, but that should work just fine, I think. So, any gotchas to disordering the address and data pins between the SIMM, and the chips and from chip to chip? Jeff Walther

20 years, 11 months

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Available for pickup.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I do not hold these but I've been asked if I want them. Allison >I sent this earlier to arrl.org, but I thought I would also try here. These >are free to the first taker, but that may be the rubbish man ! >Apollo 400 >Apollo 715s/50 >Apollo 715t/50 >(2) Apollo 715/64 >Apollo 400

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:52:59 +0100 (BST) >Of course many of these are copies of each other, but I'm sure if there >were an error, DEC would have corrected it at some time between 1975 >and 1983 :-) > ;) my 81 and 83 copies do not agree with the 76/77 copy. considering its was obtained internal to DEC it may have been a first printing. I had to use my lsi-11 system service manual as the arbiter as its later than 83. If I were actually working on the system I'd just pull the cage and look before grabbing the book. Then again I do have a assortment of Qbus and a few have non standard backplanes that were never supplied in the boxes I have them in. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Sep 26 2005, 13:34, Allison wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > No, that's not right. It's ordinary serpentine. I don't have one, but > > I just checked the Microcomputer Handbook myself, and it's definitely > > like this: > > > > A B C D > > processor > > option 2 option 1 > > option 3 option 4 > > option 6 option 5 > > > > It's on page 6-3, and the expansion options, with the cable coming from > > where I've shown "option 6", are shown on 6-19. It's also shown in the > > same arrangement on page 426 of the Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook. > > > Explain the drawings on pages 6-19 and 6-20 of the 76/77 microcomputer > handbook. The drawings on 6-19 and 6-20 in my copy show standard serpentine, as I drew above, ie with the last option (or, in those drawings, the terminator/cable connector) in the bottom left. This also matches my handouts from the DEC QBus training course I went on in the early 80s, the diagram on page 2-4 of the 1976 Microcomputer Handbook, Fig.3-16 "Daisy-Chain Priority" on page 3-27 of the 1983 edition of the BA11-M Technical Manual, Fig.1-9 on page 1-12 of the LSI-11 Processor Handbook, Fig.4-2 "H9270 Option Positions" on page 4-4 of the 1978-79 Memories And Peripherals Handbook, Fig.4 "BA11-M Expansion Box Interconnections" and Fig.5 on pages 93 and 94 (chapter on BA11-M) of the 1983-84 Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook, Fig.2 "H9270 Option Positions" on page 367 of the same 1983-84 handbook, ditto pages 72, 73, and 426 of the 1980 edition. Of course many of these are copies of each other, but I'm sure if there were an error, DEC would have corrected it at some time between 1975 and 1983 :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Ok, back home, and thanks to all suggestions, I found the following. Barely visible is the writing H9270, so that clears up what backplane is installed in the card cage. The power supply is indeed an H780. I have a copy of "microcomputer handbook" 1976-77, and on page 2-4 at the bottom is figure 2-2 which shows (literally, table and text): A B C D ------------------+------------------ 1 | position 1 | position 2 | <--- positions 1 & 2 are ------------------+------------------ normally used for 2 | position 4 | position 3 | the processor module ------------------+------------------ in single backplane 3 | position 5 | position 6 | systems and the first ------------------+------------------ backplane in multiple 4 | position 8 | position 7 | backplane systems ------------------+------------------ Anyway, I was enough assured to apply power. Double joy, because the fans do not make an awful high pitched sound, just "normal" blowing, and I got on the terminal the output 173002 @ So, that looks like one more system in my collection :-) Lucky for me it is a small system. I need something more to make it usable. The RXV11 from Pete Collum crossed my mind ... thanks for all good info! - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Sep 26 2005, 17:29, Gooijen, Henk wrote: > > >BTW, I assume that you made a typo in the serpentine: > > >> option2|option1 > > >> option3|option4 > > >> option5|option6 > > >That last line should be option6|option5, or ......? > > > > > As shown it is correct. 2,3,5 on the left: 1,4,6 on the right. > > it's one of the odder -11 backplanes. > > My source was the Microcomputer handbook 1976/77. > > I also have one with core in it. > thanks again! Indeed odd, as that is not the "serpentine rule" ! > I am sure that I would have made that mistake ... No, that's not right. It's ordinary serpentine. I don't have one, but I just checked the Microcomputer Handbook myself, and it's definitely like this: A B C D processor option 2 option 1 option 3 option 4 option 6 option 5 It's on page 6-3, and the expansion options, with the cable coming from where I've shown "option 6", are shown on 6-19. It's also shown in the same arrangement on page 426 of the Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 11 months

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IBM Aptiva for parts

by bretblack＠verizon.net

DO YOU STILL HAVE THE APTIVA YOU FOUND AND WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED,BRET-(pcman45 at verizon.net)

20 years, 11 months

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SIMM, Address Lines Order?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "der Mouse" <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> > >> When connecting DRAM chips to the pins of a SIMM (i.e. laying out the >> traces) does it matter if the order of the address and data lines is >> preserved? [...] > >What about refreshes? (This is a question, not a challenge; I do not >know enough about how dynamic RAM refresh works to know whether this >really is relevant. But it seems to me that it might be.) Hi Only that the first address lines that are used for refresh need to be grouped. As example for a 128 cycle refresh, that would be that one could mix any of the A0-A6 lines. This is because of how the blocks of RAM are accessed and then selected by a mux to the output. If you took a 128 cycle refresh and swapped A0 with A7, only half the arrays would get refresh. It still might not be an issue, depending on software and other hardware. One can do refresh by just reading the array, such as a DMA for video out might do. Dwight > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B >

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> >Together with the info from Pete I am on the safe side to > >turn on power. > >BTW, I assume that you made a typo in the serpentine: > >> option2|option1 > >> option3|option4 > >> option5|option6 > >That last line should be option6|option5, or ......? > > > > As shown it is correct. 2,3,5 on the left: 1,4,6 on the right. > it's one of the odder -11 backplanes. I believe the reson > for that odd layout is when cascading multiple boxes (BA11M) > the cables orient easier as option 5 to next box topleft is > the shown configuration and the REV-11 prom boot is nominally > in option6 as bus grant continuity is not required for most memories. > > My source was the Microcomputer handbook 1976/77. > I also have one with core in it. > > Allison Allison, thanks again! Indeed odd, as that is not the "serpentine rule" ! I am sure that I would have made that mistake ... 73, - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 11 months

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INMOS B004 Transputer boards on ebay...

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Transputer-IMS-B004-Evaluation-Board-von-INMOS_W0QQitemZ 5812899907QQcategoryZ12949QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and http://cgi.ebay.com/Transputer-IMS-B004-Evaluation-Board-von-INMOS_W0QQitemZ 5812900103QQcategoryZ12949QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Cheers, Ram

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:37:11 +0200 > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> usual config is: >> M7264 (quad) >> option2|option1 >> option3|option4 >> option5|option6 >> >> Others: >> M7270 |M8044 >> option2|option1 >> option3|option4 >> option5|option6 >> >> Option1 is typically DLV11 (SLU) >> option2 is typcailly DLV11 (SLU#2) >> option3 is typically RXV11 (floppy) >> option4 is typcically REV11 (floppy boot prom) >> >> Allison > >Thanks Allison! >Together with the info from Pete I am on the safe side to turn on power. >BTW, I assume that you made a typo in the serpentine: >> option2|option1 >> option3|option4 >> option5|option6 >That last line should be option6|option5, or ......? > As shown it is correct. 2,3,5 on the left: 1,4,6 on the right. it's one of the odder -11 backplanes. I believe the reson for that odd layout is when cascading multiple boxes (BA11M) the cables orient easier as option 5 to next box topleft is the shown configuration and the REV-11 prom boot is nominally in option6 as bus grant continuity is not required for most memories. My source was the Microcomputer handbook 1976/77. I also have one with core in it. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Allison > Sent: maandag 26 september 2005 15:20 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > > > > >Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > > From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> > > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:42:48 +0200 > > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > >Thanks Pete. > >I had a look at the backplane yesterday, but did not see an > >Hxxxx number. > >There was a xx-yyyyy (?) digit number, but I will check > >again this evening. > > That number may be cross referenced to a Mxxxx number. Most > likely M9270 as that was common use for the BA11M based > LSI-11/03 system package with H780 PS. The H780 carries two > fans and is known to sing (high pitch > whistle) and that is most recognizable! > > > > > <------ M7270 ------> <------ M8044 ------> ================== > > <------ empty ------> <------ M7940 ------> | o o __ __ __ | > > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | > > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== > > usual config is: > M7264 (quad) > option2|option1 > option3|option4 > option5|option6 > > Others: > M7270 |M8044 > option2|option1 > option3|option4 > option5|option6 > > Option1 is typically DLV11 (SLU) > option2 is typcailly DLV11 (SLU#2) > option3 is typically RXV11 (floppy) > option4 is typcically REV11 (floppy boot prom) > > It is also possible to use core (MMV11-A) in this system but > it leaves limited space for serial or disk interfaces. > > >The figure is as seen from the front side when the front > cover is removed. > >The "art work" shows the panel with the switches and LEDs at > the right. > >To remove a board from the cage you must pull the board "out of the > >screen", so the magenta handles are at the front side. > > > >The FieldGuide says that a few lines are used for something else, but > >I expect (hope) that the M7270 and the M7264 usage of all connections > >is identical. > > M7264 and M7270 are identical CPUs (LSI-11 chipset aka > KD-11F) with the differnce > that the M7264 has 0 to 4k of local ram on the card. Bus > usage is identical and > they are 16bit address (Q16). > > >It makes perfect sense that I will have to adjust the base address of > >the memory on the M8044 if I install the M7264. I will take an other > >look at the memory board with the new information from you. > >I will dig up the MicroNotes! > > Correct. Note: M8044 can have variable population of ram and there > are varients for sizes from 4KW (W is 16bit word) to 32KW. the board > also carried parity is some versions. > > M8044-AA 4k no parity MSV11-DA > M8044-BA 8K no parity MSV-11DC > M8044-CA 16K no parity MSV11-CA > M8044-DA 32K no parity MSV11-DD > M8045-DA 32k Parity MSV11-ED > > >It will be interesting to see what the system does when I > power it up. > >The console is connected to the M7940 ... I hope to see a prompt! > > Base DLV-11 SLU, make sure the addresses and vectors are > setup as console. > (177560rx, 177564 tx, v60rx,V64tx) nominal baud rate could > be anything > from 110-9600. Common baud used was 300, 1200 and 9600. > > >Regarding the M8018 WCS option: is this "just" a chip, like > FIS or the > >big CIS one? I thought it was a board (module) as the M > number suggests. > >Anybody here has a M8018 WCS and can tell more about it? > > It'a a board of quad width. Power for the board comes off the bus but > it's signals are a cable to one of the LSI-11 microm sockets (40 pin). > Besides acting as programable microcode store there are IO registers > to allow writing and reading the ram content as well as mapping where > the code store appears in CPU microcode address map. > > > Allison Thanks Allison! Together with the info from Pete I am on the safe side to turn on power. BTW, I assume that you made a typo in the serpentine: > option2|option1 > option3|option4 > option5|option6 That last line should be option6|option5, or ......? 73, - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 11 months

1
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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:42:48 +0200 > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Thanks Pete. >I had a look at the backplane yesterday, but did not see an Hxxxx number. >There was a xx-yyyyy (?) digit number, but I will check again this evening. That number may be cross referenced to a Mxxxx number. Most likely M9270 as that was common use for the BA11M based LSI-11/03 system package with H780 PS. The H780 carries two fans and is known to sing (high pitch whistle) and that is most recognizable! > > <------ M7270 ------> <------ M8044 ------> ================== > <------ empty ------> <------ M7940 ------> | o o __ __ __ | > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== usual config is: M7264 (quad) option2|option1 option3|option4 option5|option6 Others: M7270 |M8044 option2|option1 option3|option4 option5|option6 Option1 is typically DLV11 (SLU) option2 is typcailly DLV11 (SLU#2) option3 is typically RXV11 (floppy) option4 is typcically REV11 (floppy boot prom) It is also possible to use core (MMV11-A) in this system but it leaves limited space for serial or disk interfaces. >The figure is as seen from the front side when the front cover is removed. >The "art work" shows the panel with the switches and LEDs at the right. >To remove a board from the cage you must pull the board "out of the >screen", so the magenta handles are at the front side. > >The FieldGuide says that a few lines are used for something else, but >I expect (hope) that the M7270 and the M7264 usage of all connections >is identical. M7264 and M7270 are identical CPUs (LSI-11 chipset aka KD-11F) with the differnce that the M7264 has 0 to 4k of local ram on the card. Bus usage is identical and they are 16bit address (Q16). >It makes perfect sense that I will have to adjust the base address of >the memory on the M8044 if I install the M7264. I will take an other >look at the memory board with the new information from you. >I will dig up the MicroNotes! Correct. Note: M8044 can have variable population of ram and there are varients for sizes from 4KW (W is 16bit word) to 32KW. the board also carried parity is some versions. M8044-AA 4k no parity MSV11-DA M8044-BA 8K no parity MSV-11DC M8044-CA 16K no parity MSV11-CA M8044-DA 32K no parity MSV11-DD M8045-DA 32k Parity MSV11-ED >It will be interesting to see what the system does when I power it up. >The console is connected to the M7940 ... I hope to see a prompt! Base DLV-11 SLU, make sure the addresses and vectors are setup as console. (177560rx, 177564 tx, v60rx,V64tx) nominal baud rate could be anything >from 110-9600. Common baud used was 300, 1200 and 9600. >Regarding the M8018 WCS option: is this "just" a chip, like FIS or the >big CIS one? I thought it was a board (module) as the M number suggests. >Anybody here has a M8018 WCS and can tell more about it? It'a a board of quad width. Power for the board comes off the bus but it's signals are a cable to one of the LSI-11 microm sockets (40 pin). Besides acting as programable microcode store there are IO registers to allow writing and reading the ram content as well as mapping where the code store appears in CPU microcode address map. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: maandag 26 september 2005 12:59 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270 > > On Sep 26 2005, 8:40, Gooijen, Henk wrote: > > > I cleaned the dust out of a small 4 slot card cage with the power > > supply at the right side. I was never good at naming the BA box types, so > > here is the description. When you look at the front side, the 4 slots are > > at the left side, and the PSU is at the right side and has at the front 3 > > switches (DC on/off, enable/halt, and LTC on/off) and 2 LEDs (DC on and run). > > The following cards are installed (I have not yet powered up this unit). > > Sounds like the innards of a BA11-M, especially given the > boards you have. Check the number on the backplane, it > should be a H9270, which is an 18-bit serpentine backplane. > > > <------ M7270 ------> <------ M8044 ------> ================== > > <------ empty ------> <------ M7940 ------> | o o __ __ __ | > > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | > > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== > > > > I have 2 questions from this system. > > 1) As I am not that familiar with QBUS, are the cards in the correct > > slot? > > Usually you draw the boards positions as seen from the rear > (from the handles). Is the M7270 to the left of the M8044 > when seen from that direction? It should be. What you've > drawn is correct for the view from the handles. > > > 2) The M8044 says on the handle "M8044-DK" but on the board > > is in the etch "M8045" and "16KW x 18 BIT" (IIRC that last part). > > Strange or common ? > > M8045 and M8044 are the same board but the 8045 has extra RAM > for parity and a few extra components fitted to enable it. > 8044 is MSV11-D (non-parity) and 8045 is MSV11-E (parity). > What you have is not at all unusual. > > > An other thing is the following. I also have a M7264. This board is > > quad sized, but has 4 kW memory on the CPU board. The M7270 is dual > > sized (with no RAM). > > Can I remove the M7270 and M8044 and put the M7264 instead in the > > above rack? > > Yes, but you may need to alter a few things, starting with the memory. > If your M7264 has 4KW/8KB memory on it, you'll either need to change > the start address of the MSV11-D, to be at 020000(8) (= 8192 decimal), > or disable the memory on the M7264. These processors can only address > 64KB of memory, so if your MSV11 has much memory on it, you might want > to disable the 8KB on the processor. If you do, you'll need to disable > some other things to do with refresh and BRPLY -- the M7264 produces > a refresh signal which you don't want on the bus, and responds to > refreshes and memory accesses on the bus. > > The MSV11-D/E are available with 4K or 16K DRAMs, and either > half- or fully-populated, hence they can be any of 8KB, 16KB, > 32KB, or 64KB, known as MSV11-DA, -DB, DC, DD. The second > letter on the handle, however, is different -- it tells you > where the chips came from, not the size. > > > The reason for this swap is that I hoipe one day to add a M8018 > > (WCS), and as far as I know, the WCS option does not work with the > > M7270, but only with the M7264. Is this correct? > > Dunno. As far as I know, it just plugs into one of the MICROM > sockets, where the KEV11 (EIS/FIS upgrade would go), so it may work > on any version of the 11/03. If it's specific to one, it may be > that it works on a KD11-J (M7264-YA, without memory) but not a > KD11-F (M7264, with 4KW memory) because they are different board > layouts. Or, more likely, vice versa. > > > And *if* the M7264 is installed, can I then move the M7940 to the > > left in the same slot and put in the open space the M8044? > > Yes, that would be best. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Thanks Pete. I had a look at the backplane yesterday, but did not see an Hxxxx number. There was a xx-yyyyy (?) digit number, but I will check again this evening. <------ M7270 ------> <------ M8044 ------> ================== <------ empty ------> <------ M7940 ------> | o o __ __ __ | <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== The figure is as seen from the front side when the front cover is removed. The "art work" shows the panel with the switches and LEDs at the right. To remove a board from the cage you must pull the board "out of the screen", so the magenta handles are at the front side. The FieldGuide says that a few lines are used for something else, but I expect (hope) that the M7270 and the M7264 usage of all connections is identical. It makes perfect sense that I will have to adjust the base address of the memory on the M8044 if I install the M7264. I will take an other look at the memory board with the new information from you. I will dig up the MicroNotes! It will be interesting to see what the system does when I power it up. The console is connected to the M7940 ... I hope to see a prompt! Regarding the M8018 WCS option: is this "just" a chip, like FIS or the big CIS one? I thought it was a board (module) as the M number suggests. Anybody here has a M8018 WCS and can tell more about it? thanks, - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 11 months

1
0
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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Sep 26 2005, 8:40, Gooijen, Henk wrote: > I cleaned the dust out of a small 4 slot card cage with the power supply > at the right side. I was never good at naming the BA box types, so here is > the description. When you look at the front side, the 4 slots are at the > left side, and the PSU is at the right side and has at the front 3 switches > (DC on/off, enable/halt, and LTC on/off) and 2 LEDs (DC on and run). > The following cards are installed (I have not yet powered up this unit). Sounds like the innards of a BA11-M, especially given the boards you have. Check the number on the backplane, it should be a H9270, which is an 18-bit serpentine backplane. > <------ M7270 ------> <------ M8044 ------> ================== > <------ empty ------> <------ M7940 ------> | o o __ __ __ | > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | > <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== > > I have 2 questions from this system. > 1) As I am not that familiar with QBUS, are the cards in the correct slot? Usually you draw the boards positions as seen from the rear (from the handles). Is the M7270 to the left of the M8044 when seen from that direction? It should be. What you've drawn is correct for the view >from the handles. > 2) The M8044 says on the handle "M8044-DK" but on the board is in the etch > "M8045" and "16KW x 18 BIT" (IIRC that last part). Strange or common ? M8045 and M8044 are the same board but the 8045 has extra RAM for parity and a few extra components fitted to enable it. 8044 is MSV11-D (non-parity) and 8045 is MSV11-E (parity). What you have is not at all unusual. > An other thing is the following. I also have a M7264. This board is quad > sized, > but has 4 kW memory on the CPU board. The M7270 is dual sized (with no RAM). > Can I remove the M7270 and M8044 and put the M7264 instead in the above > rack? Yes, but you may need to alter a few things, starting with the memory. If your M7264 has 4KW/8KB memory on it, you'll either need to change the start address of the MSV11-D, to be at 020000(8) (= 8192 decimal), or disable the memory on the M7264. These processors can only address 64KB of memory, so if your MSV11 has much memory on it, you might want to disable the 8KB on the processor. If you do, you'll need to disable some other things to do with refresh and BRPLY -- the M7264 produces a refresh signal which you don't want on the bus, and responds to refreshes and memory accesses on the bus. The MSV11-D/E are available with 4K or 16K DRAMs, and either half- or fully-populated, hence they can be any of 8KB, 16KB, 32KB, or 64KB, known as MSV11-DA, -DB, DC, DD. The second letter on the handle, however, is different -- it tells you where the chips came from, not the size. > The reason for this swap is that I hoipe one day to add a M8018 (WCS), and > as far as I know, the WCS option does not work with the M7270, but only with > the M7264. Is this correct? Dunno. As far as I know, it just plugs into one of the MICROM sockets, where the KEV11 (EIS/FIS upgrade would go), so it may work on any version of the 11/03. If it's specific to one, it may be that it works on a KD11-J (M7264-YA, without memory) but not a KD11-F (M7264, with 4KW memory) because they are different board layouts. Or, more likely, vice versa. > And *if* the M7264 is installed, can I then move the M7940 to the left in > the > same slot and put in the open space the M8044? Yes, that would be best. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 11 months

1
0
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difference between LSI-11 CPU's M7264 and M7270

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hi, I cleaned the dust out of a small 4 slot card cage with the power supply at the right side. I was never good at naming the BA box types, so here is the description. When you look at the front side, the 4 slots are at the left side, and the PSU is at the right side and has at the front 3 switches (DC on/off, enable/halt, and LTC on/off) and 2 LEDs (DC on and run). The following cards are installed (I have not yet powered up this unit). <------ M7270 ------> <------ M8044 ------> ================== <------ empty ------> <------ M7940 ------> | o o __ __ __ | <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> | ~~ ~~ ~~ | <------ empty ------> <------ empty ------> ================== I have 2 questions from this system. 1) As I am not that familiar with QBUS, are the cards in the correct slot? 2) The M8044 says on the handle "M8044-DK" but on the board is in the etch "M8045" and "16KW x 18 BIT" (IIRC that last part). Strange or common ? An other thing is the following. I also have a M7264. This board is quad sized, but has 4 kW memory on the CPU board. The M7270 is dual sized (with no RAM). Can I remove the M7270 and M8044 and put the M7264 instead in the above rack? The reason for this swap is that I hoipe one day to add a M8018 (WCS), and as far as I know, the WCS option does not work with the M7270, but only with the M7264. Is this correct? And *if* the M7264 is installed, can I then move the M7940 to the left in the same slot and put in the open space the M8044? A lot of questions ... I am really into UNIBUS machines, but this small system is too cute to put away! thanks, - Henk, PA8PDP.

20 years, 11 months

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Commodore 64 Software Boxes

by chenmel＠earthlink.net

At a garage sale recently I bought what I thought was a 'complete with software' Commodore 64 system. When I got it home (two printers, two disk drives, C64 system, cables, etc.) I discovered that all the colorful printed software boxes were EMPTY. Well, some have inserts and what-not, but there was not a SINGLE diskette with software in any of it. Someone obviously grabbed the disks to use for some other purpose, or they were all in a case that was lost or thrown away. Anyhow, I am going on the notion that there are probably Commodore collectors who would like to get these boxes anyways. There are a mixture of different boxes for various things, games and what-not. It will be relatively inexpensive to ship them since it's all empty boxes. First respondent who shows interested in these gets them for the cost of shipping. Scott

20 years, 11 months

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Misc Apple Drive Sleds- free for shipping.

by chenmel＠earthlink.net

It's cleaning-up weekend here. I have a medium-sized box of Apple drive sleds to give away. These are the slide-in plastic parts under the drive, that I've salvaved over the years. I'm not doing much anymore with 'beige box' Macintoshes but thought maybe somebody else could put them to use. There are 3-1/2" and 5-1/4" (CDROM) sleds included, from a variety of Macs. Mostly 7200/7300/7500 desktop cases. They're in a USPS Priority Mail shipping box right now and anybody who wants them can have them for the cost of Priority Mail (so I don't have to rebox them) shipping from zipcode 46131. The box weighs aprox. 8.5 pounds. As always, first serious respondent gets them. Scott

20 years, 11 months

1
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Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation > From: "John C. Ellingboe" <john at guntersville.net> > Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:16:54 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >I may be in real trouble volume wise then. :-) What kind of >service was required on the 45 day schedule? That still equals >or beats the modern desk top things after they have been in >service a short time though. Toner system clogs, sticking cleaning blade, developer unit problems, drum(photoreceptor) issues, paper handling. But the bulk issues were print quality related. At a bare minimum before using I'd pull the cleaning unit and developer unit and thoughly clean both, inspect the drum for surface damage and make sure the cleaning blade is good condition. Then I'd inspect the corona assemblies and lamps for operation. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Manuals 3 + some other stuff

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

Some more stuff dug up :-) Everything will go for best offer starting at shipping costs only Manuals : - Atari 520ST Owner's Manual 1985 (has some parts marked) - Canon BJ-130e Programmer's Manual 1989 - Canon BJ-130e User's Manual 1989 - Commodore 1531 Datassette User's Guide 1984 - Commodore 1541 Disk Drive User's Guide 1982 - Commodore 64 MicroComputer User Manual (binder version with blue and white stripes and various colours 64) 1984 - Dataproducts B-Series 300LPM/600LPM Operator's Guide (wang used these) - Dataproducts SPG8020-1/2 Owner's Manual 1985 - Mannesmann Tally MT93/94 Applications Manual 1991 - Mannesmann Tally MT93/94 Operator's manual 1990 (has some writing on the first page) - Philips PP 402 Owner's Manual 1990 (has some writing on the cover) - Sinclair ZX Spectrum 128 Introduction 1986 - Sinclair ZX Spectrum Microdrive and Interface 1 Manual 1983 (has some writing on the last, blank, page) - Sinclair ZX Spectrum+ User Guide - Various Auto-trol Technology Series 7000 manuals Other stuff : - Digital CDD/REP V/V V5.0 UPD 16MT9 (includes everything except the "VAX CDD/PLUS INSTL GDE") - Digital CDD/REPOS V5.1 V/V UPD 16MT9 - Novell Advanced Netware 296 Operating System Kit (opened box but otherwise very little touched, everything including keycard (hardware) is included) Thats all folks for now :-) Stefan.

20 years, 11 months

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Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation > From: "John C. Ellingboe" <john at guntersville.net> > Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:11:14 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >The one I used and was around most was always spewing paper and >I didn't see any signs of trouble. I seem to remember them >having to have tech service come out one time. It still beats >the little junkers all to pieces and it can actually be >serviced. I haven't had much luck from the newer laser or ink >jet desk top printers so I have been considering an office type >color laser even though they are a little bit expensive. I got to monitor the service the performance of all 1500 sold. Most were used at the 200,000 page per month and higher level and FS weren't making money off them. A few machines set records at over 800,000 pages a month and FS were visiting them every two weeks for major work. It's true it was much better than the little ones but when that thing hit around 2 million pages it really wanted a lot of work. At the other extreme it tended to perform poorly if it didn't run regular and the running joke was 45days or 150k page whichever came first. The problem being simple, it was fast was not enough as people wanted/expected print volume to replace Xerox9700s, the other extreme wanted only a few pages but 11x17 printing was appealing. The uVAX however, check the fans and keeps on truckin. A DELQA gives better service but many had DEQNAs that works just fine. >It has been in a office environment instead of a warehouse so it >shouldn't be too bad. There was a roof leak close by at one >time but I see no effects of moisture. I will keep my fingers >crossed, rub on my lucky buckeye and hope for the best. That will help. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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State of the art

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: State of the art > From: "Gil Carrick" <gilcarrick at comcast.net> > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:43:01 -0500 > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >For several years Don Lancaster wrote a column in Computer Shopper extolling >the virtues of PostScript as a programming language. I didn't have the >impression that he was touting the printer as a coprocessor as much as he >was pointing out that since ps qualified as a general purpose programming >language you could do some amazing things with it inside the printer. Not >being heavily into graphics I didn't follow it closely. Being close or atleast based on Forth stack language it was fun to use the uVAX in the laps 40 to do things like process and print calculated results. My favorite was a print job that stayed resident and printed pages as 2up as a paper saver. Another like that counted pages used since loading. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation > From: "John C. Ellingboe" <john at guntersville.net> > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:41:42 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >It sounds like I might have to harass/pester you a bit when I >get started setting this beast up. :-) You may just have to. ;) >I have used them before >and was quite impressed with the speed, quality and >dependability. I finally located this one and it didn't get >away like some others had so hopefully I can get rid of the >little desktop junkers that give me so much trouble. I was highly disappointed with the reliability. Anything that could print at 40ppm was likely to see 100-250,000 page month and that machine was good for maybe 100-150k pages between mech failures. >I figured that the help and bookreader files might get me >through the host parts but the only thing I have otherwise is >the installation and operators guides that were in the pocket >inside the door. I would expect to have to do some minor print >engine maintenance since it hasn't been used for a while. You may need to do a bit to get it working if it's been sitting for a long while. One the toner tends to pack or harden if cooked at 110F or higher. The selenium drum may be ok, tough to find if damaged. The worst part is wearout parts such as feed rollers and a few other bits. It would help you to find a few for parts. The other part is my memory os 15years old so there may be some I forgots. I didn't keep much in the way of docs. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Restoring (and I do mean 'Restoring!') Plastic

by KParker＠workcover.com

Have you tried Armour All (that's what its called here) - its used for revitalising Vinyl and other plastic type stuff ++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Consultant WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 m: 0418 806 166 e: kparker at workcover.com w: www.workcover.com ++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Lane Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 11:06 PM To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: Restoring (and I do mean 'Restoring!') Plastic Hi, gang, Got a couple of 3M telecom test sets (965TD's) that need some cosmetic help. No, they're not off-topic. First, they both use an embedded DOS-based computer, and second they're both over ten years old. Anyway... The outer housing is made of (I think) high-density polyethylene, the same stuff that the outer jacket of telephone cables is made from, molded in bright glossy yellow. At least it was bright and glossy when new. As one might imagine would happen with field craft instruments, these have been dinged and marred pretty badly. My question is: What's the best way to restore them? I've tried simple plastic cleaner/polish, and it helped a bit, but the scarring is still there. What I'd like to do, ideally, is take enough of the outer layer off to smooth things down, and then polish it up so that they look new. With that in mind: Anyone know a good way to recondition HDPE? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************

20 years, 11 months

7
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Altos 586 system sold on eBay

by chenmel＠earthlink.net

I completely missed this item on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5226857402 It's an Altos 586 system with all the system install diskettes. I have an Altos 586 and would REALLY like to have diskettes to reinstall the OS 'stock' (mine has a limited version of Xenix with an 'office suite' on it as well). Does anybody know this buyer?

20 years, 11 months

5
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keeping old Winchesters happy

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

This might be a good one for the KB/FAQ (can't remember how to get in, though- no links on the home page) What should be done to keep older drives, especially sealed Winchester-types, happy? I've been spinning up mine every once and a while, but is there anything else? -Scott Quinn

20 years, 11 months

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IRIS 3120 (impostor) in Renton (Seattle area)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I went down and wound up walking out with the IRIS. It has keyboard, buttons, monitor, cables and appears complete (including Winchester), but is not a 3120, and under intensive interrogation we obtained a signed confession to this and many other unsolved crimes. It's a 2000 of some sort, but in a 3120 case and with a 3000 series keyboard. I'm not sure what the provenance is (some gunk on in, pretty clean and no beasties lurking), or whether the drive is set up fora Turbo 2k/3k system or a 2k (or nothing). ST-506 full-ht. drive but haven't gotten that far inside it yet. It's loaded with bitplanes (8x BP3 boards), but 2 of them do not have the blue interconnect cable attached. Is this correct (are there any members skilled in IRIS lore?)

20 years, 11 months

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Restoring (and I do mean 'Restoring!') Plastic

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, gang, Got a couple of 3M telecom test sets (965TD's) that need some cosmetic help. No, they're not off-topic. First, they both use an embedded DOS-based computer, and second they're both over ten years old. Anyway... The outer housing is made of (I think) high-density polyethylene, the same stuff that the outer jacket of telephone cables is made from, molded in bright glossy yellow. At least it was bright and glossy when new. As one might imagine would happen with field craft instruments, these have been dinged and marred pretty badly. My question is: What's the best way to restore them? I've tried simple plastic cleaner/polish, and it helped a bit, but the scarring is still there. What I'd like to do, ideally, is take enough of the outer layer off to smooth things down, and then polish it up so that they look new. With that in mind: Anyone know a good way to recondition HDPE? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

20 years, 11 months

11
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interested in obtaining early workstations

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 11:47 AM 9/23/05 -0700, you wrote: > >>>>>OK, what is "stuph"? This is the second message that I've seen from you using that term. >>>> >>>>Say it out loud. :) >>> >>>I know what it sounds like. I was trying to be tackful but I guess I'll just go ahead and say what I was thinking. It makes the original poster look lazy/immature/ignorant or possible all three. It's not just his repeated use of the (non)word "stuph" but also his grammer, lack of punctuation and capitalization as well as other distorted spellings. > >Irony abounds. > >The word you meant is "tactful." Unless, of course, you meant lots of horse harnesses. Like Zane said, my spelling is lousy but I at least make an attempt. Joe

20 years, 11 months

2
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Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation > From: "John C. Ellingboe" <john at guntersville.net> > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:43:04 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I'm not all that interested in the postscript books except it >would be nice to have a full set of applicable docs. The >service repair guide is the main one that I need to locate. The >host installation and management guides are probably superseded >by the newer software provided with the layered products for VMS >7.x so they aren't quite as important. The client installation >and management guides could contain information that is hardware >specific and would be useful. I have the red green and blue AW postscript books. They were bought under DEC cost center when I began that project. Still refer to them. There were a few of the DOCs on system as help files and readable docs in bookreader format. I'm sure some made it to CD. Also the LPS20 used the same host system software package with the difference for the load image for the printer. The LPS40, 20 and later 32 used a MOP loaded system image for the printer which was uVAX based. >Since I have never had the privilege to install and set up one >of these printers I would rather have plenty of information. I >also don't try to maintain a strict museum quality collection >but I do like to obtain the applicable documents to go with the >equipment that I have. Likely I still remember all of it. I've trained the FS trainers and at one time could rip a LPS40 down the bones and reassemble it. Still have part of the IGRP and HeNe laser from the print engine. My MVII is really an ex MV from an LPS40. I spent from 1983 to 1990 as part of that project along with LN01S LA75, LN03 and a few other printing bits. Allison

20 years, 11 months

2
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State of the art -radio

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: State of the art -radio > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:25:05 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Well add another Crystal -- Filter that is -- :) >I agree that DSP is great for brick wall filters but you might want >to check up on Crystal Sets on the internet because I read a >few people saying that the design of the radios in the past >are based on incorrect theory. Still wouldn't help. there are limits, Good, Fast, Cheap, Pick any two. >> Non-linearity it's bad design for some things but useful where >> efficientcy counts. Look at Class E trannsmitters and switchmode >> power supplies for efficientcy. > >That is only because you need a sine wave out of the transmiter >something that is easy to restore with a tuned circuit. You had better >not look at what I consider a state of the art HI-Fi amp to be, the >one I built from plans I found on the web. A whole 1.25? watts RMS >per channel. I consider it state of the art because 1) It has a >regulated power supply ( Zener diode - 800 volt 6.5 amp FET pass >tranistor ) 2) Single ended ultra-linear ( 50%) operation. >A 6SL7 driver and 6V6GT for the power amp. State of the art in 1969. Pushpull Triode connected 813s, negative feedback to cathode, Zener bias regulation, stiff 1200V ps. Oh flat from 15hz to 20khz -3db to 25khz at a mere 300w. THD was down in the sub 0.05% range. Only weighed in at 80 pounds. In 1974 I worked on a 1KW solidstate that was 40 pounds and could easily beat the specs and overall sound of those 813s and stand shorts or overloads better! >> What you should check out is Softrock, uses the soundard and CPU >> to do the back end stuff and it's frontend is a 29$ kit. >> >> www.amqrp.org/kits/softrock40/index.html (it's sold out but the >> details are there). >> > >But is it open source? I don't like CLOSED equipment or ideas. Did you look, you would not have asked then. > >Some day I might want to break the glass and look inside. >Still if you have the PC it a good use for it, since it >too new to be a classic computer. :) Maybe, today. Then again I was working with 16bit DSP back in '81. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Looking for a Mac plus keyboard

by CCTalk＠catcorner.org

Picked up the main unit (with a 68030 upgrade, 4 meg ram, external SCSI drive) at a local self-store sale. If anyone has a keyboard for these that they're willing to part with let me know. I am willing to pay for it (just not a lot ;-) Shipping would be to New Jersey, USA. Kelly

20 years, 11 months

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Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation

by john＠guntersville.net

Does anyone on the list know of online documentation or have the paper versions for the following docs. So far all I have found online was a list of docs on bitsavers and other locations but they didn't show a location for these. Printserver 40 Service Repair Guide EK-LPS40-SV VAX/VMS Installation Guide: Printserver 40 Client AA-HL83A-TE VAX/VMS Installation Guide: Printserver 40 Supporting Host AA-HL90A-TE VAX/VMS Management/Users Guide: Printserver 40 Client AA-FP19A-TE VAX/VMS Management Guide: Printserver 40 Supporting Host AA-FP24A-TE Also the following related documentation would be nice to have but not all that necessary. Postscript Language Tutorial and Cookbook AA-HL86A-TE Postscript Language Reference Manual AA-HL87A-TE Printservet 40 Programmer's Supplement AA-HL84A-TE Postscript Transilators Reference Manual AA-HL85A-TE Thanks in advance John

20 years, 11 months

3
3
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HP85 sticky keyboard

by tponsford＠theriver.com

I just got around to checking out a pretty clean HP-85 I picked up at auction last month. So far it powers up and runs a simple basic program I typed in. I haven't checked out the cassette, although it doesn't look too bad either. The only real issue so far is a sticking keyboard. Before I crack the case and check it out, are there any pointers on fixing the sticky keys, any caveats. Cheers Tom

20 years, 11 months

2
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cctech Digest, Vol 25, Issue 42

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

> Paypal just blasted me warning that "my" paypal account is closed! > What? Closing a pretend account? I don't open paypal with them, for > that reason of this idiocity. I still have this silly "scary" email > from paypal for anyone to check. That E-Mail did not come from Pay-Pal. This was a "phishing" attack. The E-mail is completely phony, from a 3rd party who is trying to get your Pay-Pal user ID and password. If you click on the link (supposedly a link to pay-pal), you will go to a completely phony web site that looks EXACTLY like the real Pay-Pal site, and when you attempt to "log-in", you will have given your Pay-Pal user ID and password to a thief, who will then use it to access your real Pay-Pal site and clean you out, possibly to the tune of thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Anyone who is "on the net" will get these "notices" from Pay-Pal, E-Bay and dozens of banks (with which they may not even have accounts). They are phony, and they do not actually come from the institutions. You ***MUST*** be aware of this and learn to understand that ALL of these a fraudulent attempts to commit theft of your identity. If you ever fall for even just one of these, you will be paying for and going through a living hell for a LONG time, perhaps years. The bottom line here is that if you get an E-Mail from an institution with a link, you just have to assume it's phony. If you are not sure, do not use the link, but rather long into the site's HOME PAGE (not the link) manually, and see if there seems to be a problem.

20 years, 11 months

2
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SGI 17E21 monitor

by vcf＠siconic.com

I have an SGI 17E21 monitor. Unknown working condition, but if it's possible to test it with a PC I'll do so. If it works I'll want $35 plus shipping. Otherwise, it goes for recycling shortly. Please reply direckly. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 11 months

1
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history of homedirs on unices

by bert＠brothom.nl

Hi, I wonder: nowadays most unices have their homedirectories in /home. Minix however used to have its homedirectories in /usr. Did "real" unices used to have the homedirectories their as well? Can someone tell something about how that evolved? I'm probably to young to know (31). Bert

20 years, 11 months

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need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card

by ruszler＠sbcglobal.net

I just ran into your posting on a forum from feb of last year. I do have the manuals you are looking for. With the default settings, you can just pop them into an ISA slot, boot the computer and they will appear as the last HD in your system (under Dos, I've never tried them under windows). format D: /s will make them a bootable drive. I had 6 of them but only 2 are still functional - still using them in some old obsolete Emerald flat touchscreen operator interface systems. They seem to die with age. If you have any that are still alive I'd be interested $$. If you are still interested, I'll send you a pfd copy of the manual - no charge.

20 years, 11 months

1
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IRIS 3120

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I can go down and talk to them, but I will probably need to know how to wipe the disk- and I've never used anything older than a 4D SGI. Anybody know what the value of one of these things is? sometimes they want slightly absurd prices ($20 for a stripped 4D/20 Entry), and sometimes it is reasonable- need to know if it fits in the budget

20 years, 11 months

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Quest for DEC LPS-40 Documentation

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

John C. Ellingboe <john at guntersville.net> wrote: > Postscript Language Tutorial > and Cookbook AA-HL86A-TE > > Postscript Language Reference Manual AA-HL87A-TE These two are about PostScript, not about DEC's specific implementation thereof in the LPS40. They were written by Adobe and published by Addison-Wesley, and are still readily available from places like Amazon Marketplace. In fact I have just ordered my copy of PS LRM 1st ed. last week and received it this week. (I have had the 2nd ed. all my life or at least so it feels, since I've been using PS as my one and only true page description language for longer than I can remember, but I wanted to have the 1st ed. too for completeness - it's been a long time since I've held it in my hands, and PostScript Level 1 brings back nostalgia.) MS

20 years, 11 months

1
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State of the art

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: State of the art > From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:17:12 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>>>>> "Henk" == Henk Gooijen <Gooijen> writes: > > Henk> ... and then there is a nice DSP on the modern soundcards. > Henk> HAM radio amateurs use the soundcard DSP to decode those chirpy > Henk> signals you can hear on short wave. Even signals burried in > Henk> "noise" produce text on your screen. A good example is MixW, > Henk> but there are several! > >Sure, but the sound card DSP tends to be a pretty low powered DSP. > >I think the typical signal processing in GigE or disk read channel >applications starts with analog to digital conversion at close to a >gigasample per second, and then doing DSP on the resulting data >stream. Sound card DSPs are designed for data rates in the few dozen >k samples per second. > > paul Actually the sound card modes like WJST and PSK31 only need the sound card to aquire the signal at audio baseband then the CPU does the heavy lifting. There is also software defined radio, all modes (AM/FM/SSB/CW) where the CPU after aquiring quadrature baseband does the decode work, the RF portion of a reciever can be simple to the extreme but provide prformance and features at the upper end. Allison KB1GMX

20 years, 11 months

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Pay-Pal (was: Don't use "BidPay"!!!!)

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Taking money out of your Pay-Pal account, and not having a balance, will not in any way stop Pay-Pal if they decide to "take" money from your account. In order to have a Pay-Pal account, you must give Pay-Pal the right to take money either from your credit card or your bank account (and usually you are pressured to make both available). If there is a "chargeback", this gives them the legal right -- enforceable in court if necessary -- to take that money from you via either the credit card or the bank account, even if it's months later and you no longer have a Pay-Pal balance. And, if the credit card and checking accounts in question are closed, to collect it in the same manner as any other alleged debt through a legal action. That said, I have had problems with Pay-Pal transactions, and so have people who I know (one whose entire account was "stolen" to the tune of thousands of dollars), and, in the end, after some hassle and some time, it was all resolved "satisfactorily".

20 years, 11 months

10
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some Tek and apollo in PDX

by innfoclassics＠gmail.com

I think Goldsnipper (on ebay and his ebay store) has an Apollo 600, sans monitor and Kbd and a Tek 4114 in his whse at the moment. He has a high idea of value but there is not that much available left. He is moving so a lot of stuff is getting scrapped. His name is Findley. He used to be a secondary market DG dealer. And maintained an IBM 438, which I think he still has. He is located in Portland, OR, USA I checked and he doesn't have any of the Data General Dasher 100 and 200 terminals left. He does have one D100 printer (the unusual "L" shaped one) left. Not cheap and it will not get scrapped. I have a bunch of Tektronix 4115 to 4128 circuit cards in my container but no systems left. I also have an Apollo 570T complete burried. It was running when put away. No docs though. -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA

20 years, 11 months

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Assembling PDF's from images

by aek＠bitsavers.org

tumble (tumble.brouhaha.com) should do what you need tiff or jpg input work fine.

20 years, 11 months

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State of the art

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: State of the art > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:17:59 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: >> Actually the sound card modes like WJST and PSK31 only need the sound card >> to aquire the signal at audio baseband then the CPU does the heavy lifting. >> There is also software defined radio, all modes (AM/FM/SSB/CW) where the >> CPU after aquiring quadrature baseband does the decode work, the RF portion >> of a reciever can be simple to the extreme but provide prformance and >> features at the upper end. > >Call me a old fart but I still like Analog Radio and real music rather >than digital this and that. I still think the BEST radio's are still >ones built by hand rather than a mass market product like you see now >days. While I don't deal in HAM radio I do see ShortWave Radio's now and >then ranging from $49 to $100 with very few features that I consider >now to be valuable. State of the Art to me is using the best knowlage >and best use of components at the time rather than cheapest product as >it now is. -- mass production of high speed low quality FET's -- is >today's state of the art for all electronic devices built today. >DSP is great for getting a signal out of noise like a space probe >with a watt or two of power but just what is the front end of the >reciver like? Playing with HI-fi audio I found negitive feedback >is often mis-used. Non-linear components generate x**n harmonics >that creates more noise because nobody considers this anymore. >A valve diode I think is the lowest noise diode but who uses that. >XTAL radio people have great front ends with a high Q but who uses that? >All this aside ham radio still needs good people who know the >equipment rather than some $$$$ product by microsoft-radio-95 so when >ham people need to be called out for real work saving people with radio >they can do it be it state of the art or a old transiver that they just >happen to have kicking around with them at the time. Then you'd like the 5 tube 75/80m RX I've built. Or maybe the 6m SSB transceiver using analog phasing techniques. However.. Thermionic diodes are noisy, much more so than silicon. Tubes at RF cannot approach the noise figured that cheap transistors can. Though a 3CX1000 amp is still cheaper than a transistor one and far more tolerent of mishandling. Crystal sets could not eliminate WGSM (740am) 3000W and 1 mile away and allow me to hear WABC 770khz 40 miles away. Non-linearity it's bad design for some things but useful where efficientcy counts. Look at Class E trannsmitters and switchmode power supplies for efficientcy. I have a tranceiver for 6M/2M that uses IF dsp and it's frontend is very sophisticated and hears as good as any. To beat that took me a year using some very good analog technology and it's limited to 6M and needs a digital display for the analog VFO. Great radio BUT, not significantly better than the commercial one save for a few narrow things I only care about. What you should check out is Softrock, uses the soundard and CPU to do the back end stuff and it's frontend is a 29$ kit. www.amqrp.org/kits/softrock40/index.html (it's sold out but the details are there). So whats this got to do with computers. Well as cpu cycles get cheaper, DSP can do things that analog had to do but not as well. Things like brick wall filters that don't ring and phase delays that are frequency invarient are very hard to do with analog. Right now a sound card and a leftover 30-400mhz PC is a pretty cheap way to do dsp but, there are chips out there that coming in cheaper and only require programming. The difference is the computer can also deliver the user interface or as pilots call them the "glass cockpit" rather than a box of knobs and dials. Allison

20 years, 11 months

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Cleaning up battery leakage

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

This summer, I received a box full of parts containing a Grid Compass 1101 which I was told was "beyond repair due to a battery leak". I've been looking it over, and I'm not so sure -- a battery definately leaked over the section of the board containing the bubble memory sockets. however the board actually does not look that badly damaged - the coating seems to have mostly protected it - there is visible corrosion at solder joints, however again - not that bad - most of them just have a rough texture. The board however is quite covered in some areas with a white substance which obviously came from the battery and "dried up". It is quite firmly glued to the board, and appears to be slightly conductive. I've carefully scraped away a small section, and as noted above, the board underneath looks to be in not-that-bad shape ... however mechanical removal would be very tedious the the risk of damaging something high. I don't know what type of battery it was, because it's long gone, and I've not seen the inside of this particular model before... Anyone got any suggestions on ways to clean this up - It's a nice and somewhat historic machine, which I would love to salvage if at all possible. (Cool little bubble memory modules) Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 11 months

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IRIS 3120 in Renton (Seattle area)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Someone should grab this. There aren't many complete units left I should be able to dig up a tape set somewhere.

20 years, 11 months

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IRIS 3120 in Renton (Seattle area)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I was just down at Tukwila RE-PC picking up a PSU, and I noticed they had a niceish complete (includes monitor, kbd, mouse) SGI IRIS 3120 on the floor, no price yet and they said it wasn't ready for sale (possibly they are concerned about wiping the drive- which they do). If anyone's interested (and has access to GL2-W disttapes) they might want to open up inquiries.

20 years, 11 months

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tv series Lost

by Ladyelec＠aol.com

Anyone watch the TV series Lost this week? What kind of computer does the mystery man in the bunker have? Thanks ahead of time, On digest, Isa in Houston riding Rita out

20 years, 11 months

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orbis drive

by trestivo＠concentric.net

Does anyone know where I can find one or two Orbis drives for 8" floppies? I believe it's the only drive that will read floppies created on an orbis drive. thom

20 years, 11 months

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interested in obtaining early workstations

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Sun 3/140 (saw one on ebay months ago, liked it). Also early Apollo, Tektronix, perhaps SGI, and other stuph. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 11 months

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