- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Mouse Pissed! Need power supply help > From: Charles <charlesmorris at direcway.com> > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:51:33 -0600 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >I've found the reason why my PDP-11 power supply (H7861) is not >putting out POK and DCOK signals. One of the small daughterboards >which appears to provide the level checks and timers (marked >Digital Type 1 SG-1 5015047B 5415048) has been badly mouse-pissed >and rusted. (Previous owner stored it in the carport). > >There is enough corrosion that the leads of two diodes and two >film resistors have been rusted right through and broke off during >gentle toothbrush cleaning, and several others don't look good. I >suspect the board would be better replaced than patched. >Unfortunately the H780 schematic does not match closely (they use >74123's while this one uses 555's, for example) so it'll be hard >to figure out the missing or unreadable parts anyway! > >Does anyone have a spare board from a "parts" power supply? >Or at least a schematic? > >thanks >Charles Your best bet is to scrounge a power supply as they can be had. The H786 and H7861 are interchangeable, not the same circuit but fit the same form factor. A H780 can be used but it's not a mechanical fit. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Mouse Pissed! Need power supply help

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

I've found the reason why my PDP-11 power supply (H7861) is not putting out POK and DCOK signals. One of the small daughterboards which appears to provide the level checks and timers (marked Digital Type 1 SG-1 5015047B 5415048) has been badly mouse-pissed and rusted. (Previous owner stored it in the carport). There is enough corrosion that the leads of two diodes and two film resistors have been rusted right through and broke off during gentle toothbrush cleaning, and several others don't look good. I suspect the board would be better replaced than patched. Unfortunately the H780 schematic does not match closely (they use 74123's while this one uses 555's, for example) so it'll be hard to figure out the missing or unreadable parts anyway! Does anyone have a spare board from a "parts" power supply? Or at least a schematic? thanks Charles

20 years, 9 months

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Cambridge Ring network hardware / docs....

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Following on from a query over on the BBC Micro mailing list, did anyone here save any Cambridge Ring network hardware or documentation? I'm just curious as to how much has survived (sadly I scrapped a pile about ten years ago and now regret it) (for the curious see: http://koo.corpus.cam.ac.uk/projects/earlyatm) cheers Jules

20 years, 9 months

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UK giveaways

by madcrow.maxwell＠gmail.com

How much do you think it would cost to ship the pizzaboz Sun/3 to the States? Given that it's not a very heavy computer, sea (surface> trasport might be fairly cheap and if it is, I'd be willing to pay the costs.

20 years, 9 months

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CP/M 2 - what's its legal status?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: CP/M 2 - what's its legal status? > From: JP Hindin <jplist at kiwigeek.com> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:24:04 -0600 (CST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > >Hey there folks; > >Decided to move into the CP/M world a little with my Vector Graphic >machine, which is expecting CP/M 2.0. > >I was curious what the legal status was these days? Since I find source >code for CP/M, MP/M and so on online, I'm guessing the status is fairly >free, but I wanted to check. >I can also find CP/M 2.0 online - but I don't believe I have any way of >producing a bootable 5.25" floppy disk of it. The copyright is still valid but the owners have released it for non-profit use. >If the OS is in a free-as-in-speech state, would it be possible for >someone to whip me up a 5.25" disk and ship it out to me (shipping paid >for, of course) for the Vector? If you look around there may be a copy for that machine and a way to get it to you. >The Vector suggests 2.0, but it appears that 2.2 is the superior release >of the 2 series, I'm hoping that this will work on the machine. Nominally 2.0 doesn't really show on radar. Almost all releases of V2 are really 2.2 and 2.2 is interchangeable upgrade (fewer bugs). The real issue is getting a boot able disk and Vector did make a few machines so copies are possible. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Need recommendations on a terminal server setup

by dave＠mitton.com

On 11/22/2005 01:00 PM, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: >Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:07:36 +0000 >From: Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Need recommendations on a terminal server setup >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <BFA6B238.C3D%witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >On 20/11/05 14:44, "Gil Carrick" <gilcarrick at comcast.net> wrote: > > > I can't find many references to it, but here are a couple: > > > > > http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/Brochure/Overview/PCTelnet.overvie > > w.html > > > > http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~rikblok/TipsnTricks/win98.html > > > > The lack of references make me think that these people are just being > > imprecise. There are also references to "DECNet Adapter" but they are > > talking about a software adapter. > >Hmm.... The 2nd one is obviously a mistake since win98 has detected the card >as a PCI based DEC 21040-powered card like the venerable DE500, the first >one is talking about an ISA card and I don't know of any ISA cards that DEC >did, though obviously that doesn't mean they didn't exist :) > >The first card I'm aware of is the DE100 which was an AUI/BNC switchable >EISA card. Also for the first one, if it WAS a DECnet card you certainly >wouldn't have been able to run TELNET over it and I didn't think DECnet had >ever been ported to the PC architecture until DEC themselves did a DECnet >stack as part of Pathworks/PCSA in the 80s. > >Cheers > >A The first DEC manufactured Ethernet card for the PC bus was the ISA DEPCA. It was based on the AMD Lance design that was implemented in the VAXmate (the first DEC PC that was somewhat IBM PC compatible) DECnet-DOS was developed and released on Rainbows and IBM XT/AT compatibles before PATHworks. It supported third party Ethernet adapters (like the sucky 3Com 3C501, and an Interlan model) via a proprietary driver interface. When Microsoft got the NDIS driver standard going, we migrated to that. The DEPCA did not have "DECnet" in it. Though it might have had a boot ROM that could support MOP downline load. It did have a unique memory mapped architecture where the buffer pool on the card could be directly accessed by the network stack. Our stack avoided buffer copies using this feature. By the way PATHWORKS for Windows V3.1 and Windows for Workgroups supported DECnet, TCP/IP, NetWare and NetBEUI, mix and match, without rebooting. Dave.

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 22 2005, 22:52, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > >> I'd forgotten about that; in ADFS-land, ADFS knew nothing about device IDs - > > >> everything was ID 0 and so the host adapter could still only have one device > > > > > > How stupid! I wonder why they did that (after all, they allowed for > > > multiple floppy drives on the same controller). It's almsot as stupid as > > > POS haeving 2 storage devices (one floppy, one winchester) hard-coded > > > into the OS. I'm not sure. In fact I didn't realise it was single device; ADFS was designed to allow 4 winchesters and 4 floppies, and the only way to have four winchesters would be to have 2 Adaptec cards. The code to actually handle that may not be in the ROM, though. > > Isn't SASI just single target though? (I'd forgotten this, I was thinking that > > I thought SASI supported a total of 8 devices on the bus, like 8-bit SCSI. I thought so too... The Xebec manuals describe how to set the addresses. > > So if the board (despite Acorn calling it SCSI) is really just SASI No, it really is SCSI. It complies with the first ANSI spec. > > ROM for the device selection code (assuming that Acorn's board contains the > > necessary SCSI features anyway - I think you likely need /ATN to do device > > selection?) No, that's for something completely different (disconnects and reconnects). SEL is what is used for device selection. The initiator waits for the bus to be idle (BSY and SEL both inactive), asserts BSY and its own ID line, and assuming nothing with higher priority also asserts an ID line, then asserts SEL and the ID line for the desired target. Then it releases BSY, and waits for the target to assert BSY, at which point it releases SEL. > > You made me realise that I need to archive the ROMs from the E01 I have in the > > I will do mine sometime too, in case they're different versions. FWIW, I have FS 1.33 ((c)1988), FS 2.08 ((c)1989), MOS 2.07, and MOS 3.66. MOS2.07 has the string "Stacking FileStore" in it but I'm fairly sure it came out of my E01. It also has the string "Acorn Econet 3.68" i it, whereas MOS 3.66 has the string "Acorn Econet 3.66". Both are mostly empty. Somewhere amongst the Customer Services newsletters I will probably have several FCOs that will list the released versions, or most of them. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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removing parts from PCBs

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: removing parts from PCBs > From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> > Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:27:05 -0500 (EST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Then there is an efficientcy problem as you end >> up using power to move heat which adds heat.. > >I think that is a minor issue. Even a relatively small pump will move the >coolant around enough. The flow is generally not all that fast, nor is the >temperature gradient. > >William Donzelli >aw288 at osfn.org It's the pumps that are connected with the chiller or fans if they used a direct radiation to air I was refering too. The pump for the local loop may be small or not depending of the length of the loop and diameters. Water cooling had one less obvious avantage. You can dump the waste heat outside the building or at least outside the computer room. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 20 2005, 18:29, Tony Duell wrote: > > I forget whether it's the mark that's longer than the space, or the > > other way round, but in essence the longer interval gives the hardware > > Ah, does the TX output change on one edge of the clock and the Rx input > sample on the opposite edge, or something? Something like that. I forget the details. > The E20 hard disk unit contains the standard Host Adapter card linked to > a 20NByte SCSI hard disk. That was the normal thing to link to the 34 pin > connector on the E01. It sohuld be relatively easy to put one of those > together... Is there any restriction on the hard disk size? What would > happen if I linked up a unit of several hundred Mbyte capacity? Would it > just not work, would it only see it as a 20Mhyte unit, or would it see > the whole thing? There will be some limit, but I'm not sure what it is. More than 20MB, for sure. Might be 500MB, maybe less. I know that stacking filestores use the same code, and I know that although the largest ones sold and supported by Acorn were 60MB, they had bigger in-house. > Accordign to the manual, there is a utility disk for this unit, and maybe > a service disk too (it's not clear whether this is one disk or two). The > former contained the program to format the winchester, and is therefore > somewhat importent. Yes, two 3.5" floppies. And I just happen to have a set :-) One is for use with a Master 128 called "M128-FSUTILS" and the other is for use with a Compact and labelled "COMPACT-FSUTILS". They're 640K, like ADFS L format, but the actual disk directory etc is somewhat different, and called "Filestore Format". So I can copy them for you if you send me a couple of 3.5" DD floppies. I've never tried making a teledisk image; that *might* work. They're double-density, 256 bytes/sector, 16 sectors/track. Once upon a time I made a couple of normal ADFS copies, so I can see that the content seems to be most (all?) of the Master Series Welcome disk, plus the normal Econet library programs, the utilities that come with Level 3 for copying between filing systems and cataloging multiple directories, Level 3 library programs like the formatter, backup/restore, netmonitor, etc, some updated 1770 DFS ROM images, printer drivers, etc. > The latter ran on a BBC Master and contained various > test programs. There was a special test box for Econet testing that > plugged into the econet ports on the Master and on the unit-under-test > (here, the Filestore), and could source a clock and simulate a > poor-quality line, both contrlled by lines on the user port. Amazingly I > have this test box, I don't have the software. Ditto! The test box pre-dates the Master series, though. It was around when Beebs were. > The chap who sold this to me included a couple of such Sony > drives, alas missing the front panels and eject buttons. I now have to > try to find those. The missing mounting hardware is less of a problem, > as are the missing cables. Those probably came from a Master Compact or an Archimedes -- they used the drives without the bezels. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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ImageDisk 1.08 posted

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Guys, I've just posted another update to my ImageDisk program to my site. The main improvement is that I have added a new program called BIN2IMD which allows you to create .IMD images from raw binary sector dumps (such as you can get from many other formats, emulators or just by "taking apart" another format image). It's pretty flexible, and can make mixed format disks etc. ussing sets of rules you give it telling which sectors from the binary file go to what tracks/sectors on the disk. This is essentially the opposite function to the /B option I added to IMDU in the last release. I have used it to make physical disks from binary images sources which were not previously .IMD format, and it has proven very useful. Also, since ImageDisk is getting quite mature, I have added a manual, separate >from the help files. Feedback appreciated. I have also made some minor cosmetic fixes, spelling corrections, and improved the file selection manual entry mode in ImageDisk so that you can directly access files from other paths. For anyone who doesn't already know: ImageDisk is a program for archiving and restoring soft-sector floppy disks to image files using the PC floppy controller hardware. It is compatible with any format which can be read/written by the PC hardware (including mixed mode/density formats). The image file format is fully documented, allowing you to access the data from the diskette by other means if you need to. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 9 months

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Mentec's web site?

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

Anyone here know why Mentec's web site has been down for the last two weeks? http://www.mentec-inc.com <http://www.mentec-inc.com/>

20 years, 9 months

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anyone local interested?

by john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org

I saw this on Hudson Valley Tag Sale Yahoo group today... Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:28:32 -0000 From: "winnie12553" <winnie12553 at yahoo.com> Subject: OFFER_ Sun Sparc Station 5 Total 6 gb-New Windsor Area My son has moved and could not take this computer with him. It is not a typical computer rather a UNIX. It is made by Sun and all pieces are from Sun. Features included: Sun Monitor 40 mb Ram Solaris 2.51 CDE 1.1/WABI2.2 External CDRom External Hard drive 2 Internal Hard Drives 24 Bit Graphics Card External Sound Speaker. He is asking $125.00. Pictures available upon request. New Windsor, NY is in Orange County, NY, USA. Anyone nearby interested? I'm not big into the sun stuff or i would have jumped at it and no, I know nothing of the poster/owner. -John Boffemmyer IV -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 11/20/2005

20 years, 9 months

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CP/M 2 - what's its legal status?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M 2 - what's its legal status? > From: JP Hindin <jplist at kiwigeek.com> > Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:48:46 -0600 (CST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > >> Exactly what model Vector do you have? Some took hard-sectored diskettes. > >Only some? >I am unsure of the model, to be honest. The front case simply says >"Vector". The sticker on the back says the model number is 9002-something, >if memory serves. >(The Vector is in a 'mainframe' configuration, with multiple terminals, >and an MFM hard disk attached) It would be wise and even a good idea to see whats inside and what model as if you don't know we can't even guess. >I have done a quick review and am confident I own no hard sectored disks >at all, so if the drive is hard sectored, I'm kinda up a tree without >another classiccmp member helping me out. > >Any extra information, even lacking preformatted and bootable CP/M disks >;), would be very helpful. Lacking further infomation it's really hard to guess from here. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 21 2005, 22:51, Jules Richardson wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > There will be some limit, but I'm not sure what it is. More than 20MB, > > for sure. Might be 500MB, maybe less. I know that stacking filestores > > use the same code, and I know that although the largest ones sold and > > supported by Acorn were 60MB, they had bigger in-house. > > They didn't just stack them (as was intended by design)? Yes, but there's a limit on the size of a single drive in ADFS. > > Yes, two 3.5" floppies. And I just happen to have a set :-) One is > > for use with a Master 128 called "M128-FSUTILS" > > Hmm, if you can ever do a raw image dump of that, shout! :-) I have an ADFS E copy of the contents which I could zip/tar if that's any help. Or if you have a spare DD 3.5" disk I can make a copy (I have some software to do that much). I think what you're really looking for is the NetMgr program. > [Econet test box] > >> Amazingly I have this test box, I don't have the software. > > > > Ditto! The test box pre-dates the Master series, though. It was > > around when Beebs were. > > Is that this critter? : > > http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/ETB.html It is. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Mentec's web site?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Mentec's web site? > From: Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> > Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:47:58 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Julian Wolfe declared on Tuesday 22 November 2005 04:38: >> Anyone here know why Mentec's web site has been down for the last two >> weeks? >> >> >> >> http://www.mentec-inc.com <http://www.mentec-inc.com/> > >>From googling for "mentec" and "pdp", it looks like their website is now >at www.mentec.com. I can't see much useful content there though >anymore, partially because their page doesn't render very well under >Firefox. I use Firefox exclusively (took IE off the system completely even registry) and it renders fine for me. Major nit I have is their site is slower than sludge even on a DSL which is typical for MSbased sites. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 22 2005, 20:27, Jules Richardson wrote: > Perhaps I got the "which may be a floppy" bit wrong and it has to > be another hard disk onto which the server's set up (with the disk > that the passwords aren't known for used as a second drive). From > memory Acorn did acknowledge that you might want two hard drives > connected to the Adaptec board... Yes, I've run them that way -- but only under ADFS. I don't know what the Level 3 Fileserver would make of that. It can't hurt to try. > > Didn't I give you one last time you were here? > > Nope, I only got this hard disk with the fileserver software on a couple of > weeks before I left for the US as I recall... Ah, another reason you probably ought to pay another visit here sometime! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Ethernet or VG Anylan

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 22 2005, 8:18, Gil Carrick wrote: > This offer on eBay is unclear to me. 8727096878 > > It says Ethernet and it says VG AnyLan. I know VG AnyLan was supposed to > replace Ethernet, but I was not aware that anybody ever called them both > things. > > Anybody familiar with this product? Not terribly, but enough to know that VG Anylan carries Ethernet packets; it's only the physical layer that differs. No carrier sense/collision detect but instead it uses access rules called Demand Priority to ensure there will never be a collision. That, incidentally, is why the switches are smart and not like ordinary Ethernet switches. Also VG Anylan uses all four pairs in the cable; 10baseT and 100baseTX only use two pairs (100baseT4 uses all four though, and for the same reason that VG Anylan does -- more bandwidth on inferior cable. VG stands for "voice grade", ie Cat 3 or similar). Anyway, Ethernet packets are one reason a card can be both Ethernet and VG Anylan. Also most HP cards were made dual-standard -- one physical 10baseT interface and one physical VG Anylan interface -- as a transition mechanism. Often they had two connectors , but sometimes just one that can be configured or autoconfigures. HP's website lists these as dual-standard, probably by detecting signals on the second and third pairs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 22 2005, 12:45, Jules Richardson wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > Hmm, well apparently the way to get around not knowing the password is to set > up a fileserver on another disk (which may be a floppy) using the setup floppy > - that way you end up with a bootable fileserver where you know the password. Well, that's fine for a Filestore. I'm not sure it'll work for a Level 3 Fileserver, because that expects to just use a winchester. I'm willing to be proven wrong, however. > It didn't seem like the level-3 disks were out there on the 'net in any > suitable form though. Didn't I give you one last time you were here? > I'm not sure what the best way of getting them to me is. I suppose having them > on 5.25" is easier than 3.5", although I do have one beeb somewhere with a > 3.5" drive attached. Maybe a zip of the contents is the best plan, then I can > drop them on the PC and use Xfer to get them across onto a beeb and onto > whatever media makes most sense. That won't work. Those disks are 3.5" disks for a Filestore, in Filestore format. How are you going to write Filestore format from a zip archive? > Hard to date it then. The only thing that springs to mind is that early Acorn > clock boxes were in the same style of "bought from Maplin" cases :) > (Actually, didn't the Econet software protocol change very early on... maybe > such a unit - or at least the software - wouldn't even work on a typical > 'modern' Econet even if anyone did have a copy) They are Vero cases. Not particularly cheap. No, the software protocol didn't change. Anyway, that wouldn't affect the test circuits. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Ethernet or VG Anylan

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

Bert Thomas <bert at brothom.nl> wrote: > Gil Carrick wrote: > > This offer on eBay is unclear to me. 8727096878 > > > > It says Ethernet and it says VG AnyLan. I know VG AnyLan was supposed to > > replace Ethernet, but I was not aware that anybody ever called them both > > things. > > Be aware: you need 'special' 100VG switches for these cards to be able > to use them. You can't use them with a cross-cable. The 100VG Ethernet cards use all 4 pairs of a CAT3 cable to get 100Mbps bandwidth. As such they are NOT compatible with Fast Ethernet switches. However, I have a crossover cable that I have used to interconnect two Intel 100VG cards. This is the crossover cable: gr-w or-w gr or or-w gr-w br-w bl br bl-w or gr bl br-w bl-w br **vp

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 22 2005, 12:33, Jules Richardson wrote: > Of course with ST506/412 you're probably OK - the Adaptec board probably > supports various sector sizes Yes, normally 256 or 512 bytes/sector. > But with SCSI straight to the host adapter it'll be somewhat different and the > drive needs to support whatever the initiator requests, which I expect is 256 > bytes/sector. Yes. The original drives were all Rodime drives -- at least all the ones I saw were -- and they did support 256 byte sectors. > Pete, were there two releases of the format utility - one for ST-type disks > and one for SCSI? Probably but I don't remember formatting a SCSI disk. Actually, perhps I did. The Filestore utilities disks contain a version of AForm and presumably that's what it's for. > Certainly prior to formatting an ST-type disk with the OMTI board you need to > issue an 0xC2 "assign disk parameters" command to tell the board what it's > connected to; I can't imagine this is different with the Adaptec It uses a Mode Select command. > >> making a teledisk image; that *might* work. They're double-density, > >> 256 bytes/sector, 16 sectors/track. > > > > Should be possible, but not a lot of use to me as I don;t haev Teledisk > > (and don't intend to try to write soemthing to handle its images). I > > might have a go at writing programs to handle Imagedisk stuff though. > > True, Imagedisk is probably a more viable format these days (hat off to Dave > D). Although Teledisk is available in many places on the net, and lots of disk images exist as TD0 files. It's still the standard for CP/M and DOS systems, for example, and it's a small program so an easy download. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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PDP-11/03 basic questions - some answers found.

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

I still can't find a schematic for the power supply, although I hope it's similar to the H780. But I did manage to unearth the PDP-11 "Field Guide" (thanks to Megan Gentry for maintaining it). So now I know my 11/03-L system has: M8189 = KDF11-B: LSI-11/23+ CPU Clearpoint 2 Mb memory M8061 = RLV12: an RL01/RL02 controller M7957 = DZV11-M: 4 serial ports M8053 = DMV11: V.35 Controller .... what's that for? A modem? Dilog CQ1610: 16 serial ports M8029 = RXV21: an RX02 controller. The RL02 was filthy on the outside but nice and clean on the inside, and powers up. Guess it's time to make a cable to hook it to the RLV12 and see if the Fault light goes off (just like my 8/A I assume). Although I suppose I shouldn't complain, how much trouble would it be for the institutions discarding hardware to disconnect the cables instead of cutting them off! Now all I need is some kind of OS on an RL02 pack, and a room full of twenty terminals :) -Charles

20 years, 9 months

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BASIC's question mark and PRINT

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

I actually haven't used 3.2 BASIC on the emulator in a while, instead favoring 8k or Extended BASIC. I can't get it to work here at work but I suspect that it's because of configuration issues (blocked telnet). To run 4k BASIC, load the toggle loader file lodr_4k.hex. Then load the paper tape file using the emulated cassette drive in PLAY mode (an anachronism, but that's how I could get 4k to work based on the port configurations. Altair paper tapes and cassettes used the same format). Click RESET, then EXAMINE to set address 0. Raise A15 and click RUN. If all goes well, 4k should pop up. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Battle Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:12 AM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: BASIC's question mark and PRINT Allison wrote: > Jim Battle wrote: > >> Allison wrote: >> >>>> Subject: Re: BASIC's question mark and PRINT >>>> From: Jim Battle <frustum at pacbell.net> >>>> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:03:31 -0600 >>>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >>>> >>>> tim lindner wrote: >>>> >>>>> In BASIC, where did the short cut of '?' for PRINT originate? >>>>> >>>>> After following a discussion on the CoCo list I thought I'd ask here. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Here are some bounds and data points. >>>> >>>> The Dartmouth BASIC specification does not have ? as an abbrevation >>>> (circa 1964). >>>> >>>> I think all versions of Microsoft BASIC have this shortcut (circa >>>> 1975). >>>> >>>> Palo Alto Tiny BASIC (li chen wang) didn't use this convention -- >>>> instead it used "P.". >>>> >>>> Wang BASIC (circa 1972) didn't use this convention. >>>> >>>> From what I can tell, DEC BASIC didn't use this abbreviation. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The ? was adopted by convention from the fact that early MS basic >>> (MITS BASIC) the ? was also the same value as the token for print. >>> Most of the non-compiled 8bit basics were tokenized in memory for >>> execution and storage and when "LIST"ed were detokenized to list as >>> Basic we know. >>> >>> Allison >> >> >> >> Allison, that seems unlikely. Later versions of microsoft basic >> certainly didn't use any value lower than 0x80 for tokens. Even if >> you could find a few characters in the "live" portion of the ascii >> table that didn't lead to ambiguous parsing, I can't think of a good >> reason why they'd do it -- there was enough room at 0x80 and above, >> and not enough unused values below 0x80, so why have two lookup tables >> when one would do? >> >> It would seem much easier to have special case where '?' got mapped to >> the token for PRINT. >> >> OK, trying to be less speculative, I looked at the binary for >> >> ALTAIR BASIC VERSION 3.2 [EIGHT-K VERSION] >> >> that is included with Rich Cini's Altair emulator. At the end is the >> list of the statement keywords. In memory each keyword abuts the >> next, and the boundary between keywords is marked by setting the msb >> of the byte. Here is the table in order: >> >> END >> FOR >> NEXT >> DATA >> INPUT >> DIM >> READ >> LET >> GOTO >> RUN >> IF >> RESTORE >> GOSUB >> RETURN >> REM >> STOP >> OUT >> ON >> NULL >> WAIT >> DEF >> POKE >> PRINT >> CONT >> LIST >> CLEAR >> CLOAD >> CSAVE >> NEW >> TAB( >> >> Since there no room for storing a token value after each item (I know >> it is possible that that mapping is held elsewhere, but it seems >> unlikely), these keywords very likely have consecutive token values. >> >> Elsewhere in the binary, near the beginning, is a similar table for >> the functions (FN, SPC, NOT, AND, OR, VAL, CHR, LEFT, RIGHT, MID, FRE, >> SIN, COS, TAN, PEEK, etc, but also including THEN, STEP). > > > Ever look at the saved files or in memory programs? I tried using Rich that 3.2 version of basic on Altair32 but I wasn't able to figure out how to get it to run (just like the real hardware, I'm sure!). I then tried a somewhat later version of MS basic, version 4.7, on my Sol. The in-memory token for PRINT is 164, or 0xA4. How I determined that was as follows: 10 PRINT "aqzy" 20 FOR I=0 to 50000 30 IF PEEK(I)<>ASC("a") THEN 100 40 IF PEEK(I+1)<>ASC("q") THEN 100 50 IF PEEK(I+2)<>ASC("z") THEN 100 60 IF PEEK(I+3)<>ASC("y") THEN 100 70 FOR J=-6 TO 5 80 PRINT I+J, PEEK(I+J), CHR$(PEEK(I+J)) 90 NEXT J:STOP 100 NEXT I It finds itself and then prints the bytes of the line. The string may appear in memory more than once due to the fact it might appear in an edit buffer or some scratch space in addition to its program location. Rich, if you can get your version 3.2 MS BASIC running on your Altair32 emulator perhaps you can run the program and report what token is used for PRINT.

20 years, 9 months

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List of kit to give away (Bristol, UK)

by coredump＠gifford.co.uk

Here's my list of (mostly) classic computer parts that I need to give away. All free for collection in Bristol (UK): DEC TU77 reel-to-reel tape drive suitable for PDP-10 or DECsystem-2020. With manuals and a few spares. Massbus interface. Will need van with tail-lift to shift it. QIC quarter-inch tape drive, Archive model 2525S with SCSI interface. Capacity 525Mb per tape, with box of tapes. Digital DECstation 5000/240 model PM38A-AC. With colour framebuffer and two external SCSI disk/tape drive cases (with disks). MIPS CPU. Will run NetBSD. Several SCSI external disk/tape enclosures with power supplies. Some have Exabyte tape drives in them (full-height). Several full-height 5.25" SCSI hard disk drives. Capacities range >from 327Mb to 1.3Gb. IBM RAID disk caddy for SCA-type SCSI disk. FRU 00N7281. PVC cover for Teletype Model ASR33. Case for iMac in pink. Just the case, no internal parts. HP LaserJet IID for spares. Giving Error 50, a fuser failure, but I've had no luck fixing it. Also some spares from a LaserJet II. Video monitor for Tandy TRS-80. Monochrome, with video input. Actually a TV set, converted by Tandy to remove the tuner and add a video input. Apricot PC and printer. The original Apricot MS-DOS machine, with 10Mb hard disk. 8086 CPU, but not PC-compatible! Sage IV, as used by INMOS for transputer development. Badged with INMOS logo. 68000 CPU. Western Digital FileCard 30. 30Mb hard disk on a full-length ISA card. Apple Mac IIsi with video monitor. 68030 CPU. Two quarter-inch tape backup units. Sun 3/60 with colour framebuffer. Desktop "pizza box". 68020 CPU. Sun 3/60 with mono monitor and disk "shoebox". 68020 CPU. Sun 3/260 with colour framebuffer and monitor. In floorstanding chassis with two internal full-height 5.25" hard disks. 68020 CPU. Personal Computer World magazines: Dec 1983, Feb & Apr 1984, Jan 1985, Jan & Apr 1986, Apr 1993. -- John Honniball coredump at gifford.co.uk

20 years, 9 months

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BASIC's question mark and PRINT

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: BASIC's question mark and PRINT > From: Jim Battle <frustum at pacbell.net> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:12:05 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > >Rich, if you can get your version 3.2 MS BASIC running on your Altair32 emulator >perhaps you can run the program and report what token is used for PRINT. Altair basic V3.2 at startup looks at the sense switches (port adddress 377Q) for a value that tells it if the SIO-A, SIO-B or 2SIO is the IO. The alternate is to watch it run on the FP and stop it where it loops and look at the IO instructions. Least that how it was done on the real Altair. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Ultrix for DECstations > From: Bill Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:09:13 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>Who was it that had the signline of something like: >> >>Don't you wish you could buy now what DEC had then. >> >>Allison >> >> >You remembered. 8-) > >d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! >pechter-at-gmail.com Thankyou for that! Some of the things I was used to at DEC I still haven't found a PC version that is close. If there ever was one that would be VAXNotes, really great collaboritive tool. Anyone ever do a wintel editor (NOT WORD) that had a single key for advance cursor one word? Allison

20 years, 9 months

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What is a DEC WT/78?

by korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu

A VT78 with a word processor in ROM? Doesn't look like it includes the pedestal, if so. At any rate, there's one on E-bay. I am not affiliated in any way with the seller. I do have a cousin in Fresno, though. http://cgi.ebay.com/DIGITAL-WT-78-WORD-TERMINAL-VINTAGE-ALL-IN-ONE_W0QQitem… Eric

20 years, 9 months

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PDP-11/03 basic questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: PDP-11/03 basic questions > From: Charles <charlesmorris at direcway.com> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:12:40 -0600 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Today I powered up the "new" 11/03-L, with which I have absolutely >no experience. The POWER OK light blinked slowly on and off for a >while and then went out. Now it doesn't come on at all. The top >card in the cage, though, has a row of red LED's and a large green >one, all of which are lit. > >Power supply is H7861, cage is BA-11SA. > >The cards from top to bottom are: >M8189 11/23b >2 Mb Clearpoint memory card (don't see a model number) >M8061 RLV12 cartridge disk controller. >M7957 DZV11 serial mux. >M8053 With an M8064 it would be sync controller DMV11 >Dilog CQ 1610 card (what is it? Many 2861 PLCC chips in sockets) 2861 is a serial chip, likely a multiport serial card. >M8029 RXV21 8" floppy interface (RX02) On thing is for sure it's not an 11/03! the 11/03 CPu is either M7264 or M7270. You have an 11/23B (M8189). > >I didn't see a lot of 11/03 manuals on the bitsavers site. Before >I do a lot of searching and headscratching, can one of the -11 >gurus tell me what kind of beast I've got here? Or point me to the >appropriate manuals? For certain you are looking for the wrong thing anyway. If you'd found 11/03 manuals it would not cover much of the hardware listed. The base system is 11/23B (or 11/23+) and you need to find individual manuals for the boards as that is likely a hybridized system and not a stock configuration. By that I mean either someone dumped all the bards they had in it or it was built as a special purpose system. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Cooling and leaks; was: removing parts from PCBs ?JUNK MAIL? 4

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Doc Shipley" <doc at mdrconsult.com> > >Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> On 11/21/2005 at 12:55 PM Eric J Korpela wrote: >> >> >>>The drawbacks of this system are that you need to prime it, and that a bad >>>enough leak will disrupt the coolant flow, so you need to monitor the flow >>>rate or have a decent thermal shutdown mechanism. You need that in case of >>>pump failure, anyway. >> >> >> Why not simply use a standard sump pump? Most such pumps can push a 15 or >> 20 foot head and don't need to be primed. > > I think that putting the computer higher than the pump can push is >the point. If the computer's on the low-pressure side of the circuit, >(the pump is *pulling* water through instead of *pushing* ) it would Hi Not actually pulling. It would still be pushing but the top part of the system would be siphoning. This means it has negative pressure relative to the air. Dwight >take a very large leak to get the system wet. It'll pull air into the >water lines, instead of pushing water out into the electronics. > > > Doc

20 years, 9 months

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tektronix 4207 and 4209

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, anybody has an Idea where to find manuals for them ? Cheers & thanks

20 years, 9 months

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PDP-11/03 basic questions

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

Today I powered up the "new" 11/03-L, with which I have absolutely no experience. The POWER OK light blinked slowly on and off for a while and then went out. Now it doesn't come on at all. The top card in the cage, though, has a row of red LED's and a large green one, all of which are lit. Power supply is H7861, cage is BA-11SA. The cards from top to bottom are: M8189 2 Mb Clearpoint memory card (don't see a model number) M8061 M7957 M8053 Dilog CQ 1610 card (what is it? Many 2861 PLCC chips in sockets) M8029 I didn't see a lot of 11/03 manuals on the bitsavers site. Before I do a lot of searching and headscratching, can one of the -11 gurus tell me what kind of beast I've got here? Or point me to the appropriate manuals? thanks Charles

20 years, 9 months

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BASIC's question mark and PRINT

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 21 2005, 22:27, Jules Richardson wrote: > BBC BASIC used P. too, although the manual in front of me suggests that it > wasn't until version 4 (circa 1985 probably) - I don't think prior versions > supported token abbreviations (version 3 may have; this was produced purely > for the US market). No, all versions, from the original 1981 version, support abbreviations. > The '?' token was used by BBC BASIC for peek and poke as I recall. Yes, that's right. '?' for byte values, and '!' for word values. You could do interesting things with them. For example, ?&400=0 means poke zero into (hex)0400 but &400?1=0 means poke zero into the address 1 higher than &400 -- this is useful if you replace either the '1' or the '&400' in my example with a variable, and use it in a loop. Or set a variable to the address of some buffer or control block, and then fill specific entries in the control block with values: 800 DEF PROCdiskaccess 810 returncode=10:parm?drive:parm!1=buffer 820 IF format THEN PROCformatparms:GOTO 850 830 parm?5=3:IF rnotw THEN parm?6=&53 else parm?6=&4B 840 parm?7=track:parm?8=sector:parm?9=&21 850 A%=&7F:X%=parm:Y%=0:CALL OSWORD [ result code processing and display here ] 890 ENDPROC which is a piece of a disk sector editor program I wrote in November 1982 (according to the REMs at its head). That particular bit is the procedure to set up a parameter block at an address "parm" (defined further up the program) and call an OS routine called OSWORD which with 7F in A (and the address in X and Y, in this case it's in zero page) calls the routine that accesses the 8271 disk controller. "CALL" in BBC BASIC copies the variables A%, X%, and Y% into the obvious 6502 registers and does a JSR to the address following the "CALL" keyword. All of which has very little to do with '?' as shorthand for PRINT! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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OS9 login / shutdown

by tradde＠excite.com

--- On Mon 11/21, Jules Richardson < julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk > wrote: From: Jules Richardson [mailto: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk] To: General at excite.com, Discussion at excite.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS at .SYNTAX-ERROR. Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:32:51 +0000 Subject: Re: OS9 login / shutdown Jules Richardson wrote:> > I've just come across my first OS9 system, and know absolutely nothing > about OS9 other than that it's vaguely UNIX-like. Before I try hooking > the hard disk up and seeing if it actually works, obvious questions follow:Oh and grrrr that's a real OS9 machine too - *not* a Mac running OS release 9! (I'm having trouble in google filtering the Mac junk out from the stuff I'm interested in...)cheers :) I am curious as to what type of system it is. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!

20 years, 9 months

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OS9 login / shutdown

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I've just come across my first OS9 system, and know absolutely nothing about OS9 other than that it's vaguely UNIX-like. Before I try hooking the hard disk up and seeing if it actually works, obvious questions follow: 1) I assume there's a login process. Of course I don't know any account details for the system; are there any tricks to breaking in as there often are with old UNIX systems? 2) Assuming I can't log in at this stage, is it possible to cleanly shut the system down? e.g. some magic keypress or login name (as there is with Apollo machines) 3) If I can login somehow, how do I then shut the system down properly? Is there a shutdown command in OS9, or is it something else entirely? On the plus side, the interface between host and disk unit is SASI, so there's a chance I can do a raw backup of the drive via a modern system. On the minus side, the physical drive is an ST506 type via an OMTI bridge board, so I can't easily go from raw backup to working system without proper low-level format utils (which I don't have, although I'm still sorting through floppies that came in the same haul) Of course all of this assumes that a) the hard drive isn't toast already and b) that the hard drive which came in the pile of stuff actually belongs with this system in the first place :) ta Jules

20 years, 9 months

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CP/M 2 - what's its legal status?

by jplist＠kiwigeek.com

Hey there folks; Decided to move into the CP/M world a little with my Vector Graphic machine, which is expecting CP/M 2.0. I was curious what the legal status was these days? Since I find source code for CP/M, MP/M and so on online, I'm guessing the status is fairly free, but I wanted to check. I can also find CP/M 2.0 online - but I don't believe I have any way of producing a bootable 5.25" floppy disk of it. If the OS is in a free-as-in-speech state, would it be possible for someone to whip me up a 5.25" disk and ship it out to me (shipping paid for, of course) for the Vector? The Vector suggests 2.0, but it appears that 2.2 is the superior release of the 2 series, I'm hoping that this will work on the machine. My thanks to all; JP

20 years, 9 months

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DEC 861B and 871B power controllers

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 19 2005, 16:35, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I'm looking for a spare 871B power controller > I've got an 872B with a broken local switch, which I was kind of > planning on using. I could be persuaded to part with it though. Let me > fix it first and make sure it works properly, unless you're particularly > keen to do it yourself. OK. > > I might have a spare 861B (that's the larger 12-outlet 16A 240V > > version) to trade if that helps. > > Understanding and geeky though my girlfriend might be, running ceeform > plugs in the computer room might be looked upon... unfavourably. I recognise that feeling ;-) Glasgow? Hmm... maybe. If you feel like being nearer to York, I still have that listing paper :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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PeCos One

by tiziano.garuti＠tin.it

> Jay West wrote.... > I noticed the HP standard software systems manual on your site is > apparently > identical to the one on Jeff Moffat's 2100 site? Did it get copied from > there? No, I don't know mr. Jeff Moffat, I received that manual via email (the sender is on the web page). Tix

20 years, 9 months

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brochure/flier request.

by Mark.Brennan＠ie.fujitsu.com

Hi, I am a systems engineer with Fujitsu in Ireland and I have a request I am looking for some help with. My request is some what strange to say the least. Since I joined Wang Computer in 1988 I have been collecting Product Brochures on various computer systems it started of with Wang Vs server systems. For the last few years I have been trying to collect old product/info/fact/marketing brochures on various computer systems with very little luck, as in the future I hope to set-up a web site with details and overviews of them. I have managed to collect some information on, DG/HP/Wang/Netframe/NCR/Tandem/DEC/Sequent/SGI/Siemens-Fujitsu/Pyramid/Apoll o/Cray/KSR/Ncube/ICL/Compaq etc, I was wondering whether or not you may have or know where I maybe able to get my hands on any old product brochures/fact sheets etc on any of the supercomputer/workstations/systems/servers, I know that my request is at best strange but any help would be great. Anything that is sent to me I will copy and return the originals if people still need them that is. Regard and thanks again markb.

20 years, 9 months

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BASIC's question mark and PRINT

by Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com

That was to permit parsing the table for the end of the keyword. Although I haven't investigated other BASICs, I know for a fact that Commodore BASIC used that method. Supposedly, all of the micro BASICs were compiled from the same source tree using a bunch of #if/#endif-like switches. ISTR that Microsoft used some sort of intermediate language or series of complex macros to facilitate being to compile a version of BASIC for almost any machine. Indeed, ASCII(63) is the question mark character. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gordon JC Pearce Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 4:09 PM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: BASIC's question mark and PRINT Jim Battle wrote: > Allison, that seems unlikely. Later versions of microsoft basic > certainly didn't use any value lower than 0x80 for tokens. Even if you > could find a few characters in the "live" portion of the ascii table > that didn't lead to ambiguous parsing, I can't think of a good reason > why they'd do it -- there was enough room at 0x80 and above, and not > enough unused values below 0x80, so why have two lookup tables when one > would do? Aha - didn't the last letter of each keyword have bit 7 set? That would mean that it would be 63+128 = 191 Just a thought. Gordon.

20 years, 9 months

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Wnated : Front panels and eject buttons for Sony MFD-63W-00D

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

OK, it's a _very_ long shot. As you know. I am sorting out this Acorn Filestore. I have 2 floppy drives that were sold to me with it, and which I believe might well have been the original type of drive for that unit. They are Sony units, marked MFD-63W-00D one a label on the side and Model MP-F63W-00D on a label on the motor cover plate Alas they are missing the front bezels and eject buttons (I suspect they came from an Acorn Achimedes). So, does anyone have a couple of scrap drives of that type that I can obtain the bezelz/buttons from? -tony

20 years, 9 months

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BASIC's question mark and PRINT

by tlindner＠ix.netcom.com

In BASIC, where did the short cut of '?' for PRINT originate? After following a discussion on the CoCo list I thought I'd ask here. -- tim lindner tlindner at ix.netcom.com Bright

20 years, 9 months

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Intel 80130 OSP

by cclist＠sydex.com

Is anyone aware of a single commercial system, save for an Intel Multibus development board, that incorprated the 80130-2 OSP chip? Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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TK50 questions

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Well, I got a TK50 drive off eBay, and I have some questions about it. First, is there a (transition panel/bulkhead/distribution panel/whatever you want to call it) connector for it? I'd really like to use that if possible. It came with a Micro-PDP11 style hookup, which is just the TK50, ribbon cable, and the controller that goes to the drive. Secondly, how do you clean these drives? Is there any procedure I should use to clean the unit before installation? As always, your anwers are much appreciated. TIA Julian

20 years, 9 months

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TK50 questions

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Well, I got a TK50 drive off eBay, and I have some questions about it. First, is there a (transition panel/bulkhead/distribution panel/whatever you want to call it) connector for it? I'd really like to use that if possible. It came with a Micro-PDP11 style hookup, which is just the TK50, ribbon cable, and the controller that goes to the drive. Secondly, how do you clean these drives? Is there any procedure I should use to clean the unit before installation? As always, your anwers are much appreciated. TIA Julian

20 years, 9 months

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DEC RK07K DC Specs.?

by ics65＠sbcglobal.net

Any one know the Specifications (inside hub diameter, outside diameter, thickness) of the DEC RKO7K DC Disk Pack Platters? Thanks for your time, George Wiegand ICS65 at SBCglobal.net

20 years, 9 months

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Taking photos of PCBs / wiki question

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I have a feeling that a while back someone was going to update the classiccmp wiki with tips about taking photos of PCBs. a) Did it ever happen and, b) Where's the wiki gone!? www.classiccmp.org/wiki appears empty of any information! I've got a few boards I'd like to grab photos of now I'm back in the UK and thought I'd educate myself a little first :-) (results in the past have been somewhat mixed) cheers Jules

20 years, 9 months

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Looking for early XENIX stuff

by rob＠fergusonlabs.com

Hi folks, I'm looking for XENIX installation disks, documentation, and other assorted paraphernalia for both the Apple Lisa and the Altos 586 series of machines. Actually, any early (pre-1985) XENIX stuff is of interest to me, but those two machines are the ones I'm working on at the moment. If you have anything that you'd be willing to either copy or let go, let me know off-list, and we can work out the details. If there's interest, I'll summarize what I find to the list. Thanks very much, Rob Ferguson rob at ferguson labs dot com

20 years, 9 months

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Minix

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Minix > From: Huw Davies <huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:10:36 +1100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >On 18/11/2005, at 2:31 AM, woodelf wrote: > >> Allison wrote: >> >>> Minix on PDP11, Not that I know of. It would be interesting. >>> >>> >> Well I think Minix #1, would be easy to port, but why? You got >> real unix. > >Because you can :-) Exactly! >Don't forget XINU which was designed to run on PDP-11s. > >> It just proves how effective code on the 11 could be. Too bad you >> can't buy >> a pdp-11 cpu chip for $2.49 like a 8088. I take it is still rather >> pricy to put together >> a basic 11. Any body know how much? > >I haven't looked, but I would have thought that you could buy >something like a PDP-11/03 for not a lot of money (assuming that the >11/03 is what I think it is - small Qbus system, yes?) > >Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Yes, there is also 11/2 and 11/23 than usualy can be found cheap. At the single board level there is the 11/21 falcon card. If one wishes to build from chip level defunct VT240/241, HSC50, RQDXn controllers and a few other DEC bits can supply a T-11 chip (base PDP11 on a chip). Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Minix

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Minix > From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net > Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:16:21 +0000 (GMT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> The reason I bought Minix in the beginning was that it would run on my >> PC/XT machine (the only PC I had at the time). And I learnt a fair bit >> about OSes and enough C to be dangerous by playing about with it. > >Yes indeed > >> 8MB and a 386 is not a small machine! > >8MB and the equivalent of a 386 is getting to be pretty close to a single >chip these days. > >> Feel like porting Unix V6 (as in the Lions Book)? > >I quite fancy porting Minix to the PDP-11, but I'm sure it's been done >before. > >Gordon. Minix on PDP11, Not that I know of. It would be interesting. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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PeCos One

by tix＠1000bit.net

I have just published the PeCos One Owner's Manual at this url: http://www.1000bit.net/support/manuali/manuali.asp How many PeCos One owner are here ? Tix

20 years, 9 months

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IBM Mag Card II

by James＠jdfogg.com

> I am a new user on this forum because I have an IBM Mag Card > II that was left by a tenant in my building. I believe she > was the only owner of it. I am was wondering if I could sell > it/pass it on to someone else. What would it be worth if anything? > > It appears to be in good condition but I do not know if it > works well or what components are in it. It has the main box > and the keyboard/typewriter. > I live in the LA area and as it weighs ~100lbs I think pick > up would be the best idea. I can hold on to it for a while > but need to get it moved soon. I believe this is a very early "word processor". Pages could be stored on a magnetic stripe on a cardboard card. There would be a slot in the front of the box to slide the cards into so they could be read. There will be a thick cable connected to an IBM electric typewriter that should look familiar, but with some extra keys and functions. I had one of these many years ago and wish I still had it. They are hard to find, but mostly of value only to collectors and museums. I don't think there's any cash value to it. I am in the North East, and shipping this would be a bear.

20 years, 9 months

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Shipping between US and Canada

by trag＠io.com

>Allison wrote: > >> Anyone with expereince shipping USA to Canada? >> >> I'm talking small stuff, some eproms or manuals maybe a board. >> around the USA I'd just pack a box and off to the post office. >> >> Suggestions? >> >> Allison If the item(s) are under 1 or 2 pounds, then Air Letter Post is the way to go. But you can use the post office's on-line postage calculator to find the best method for you. Just go to www.usps.com and choose "Calculate Postage" from the bar near the top of the page. Fill in US Post Office form 2976 which is the USPS Customs Declaration. It's a self adhesive form with a green part that stays on the package and a white part that is torn off by the shipping post office. I keep a few on hand for when I need to mail stuff to Canada. Two ounces or less (a few EPROMs) is $.85, IIRC and they claim 4 - 7 days for delivery. Jeff Walther

20 years, 9 months

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HP gear available

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I was contacted by someone wanting to dispose of some HP gear. He sent me pictures, and it appears to be in very good condition. HP21MX M-series (2108A) (2) 8K boards, DCPC, MEM, MEMPRT HP21MX E-series (2113A) (2) 64K boards, DCPC, MEM, MEMPRT Yes, both systems have the A style power supply. The machines have a bevy of I/O cards in them (in my opinion, a good assortment). Some highlights include 13210, 12531, 12880, 12566, TBG, 8bit duplex reg, 16bit duplex reg, prototype board!, tape reader, and I/O exp. boards. Also includes a 92922A net system to terminal box, I/O extender, and an assortment of manuals & possibly some paper tapes. Available in San Jose, needs to be gone by christmas. Contact me off list if interested. Jay West

20 years, 9 months

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Possible regulator problem in 11/34

by Useddec＠aol.com

I have these in stock if you need any. Thanks, Paul

20 years, 9 months

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IBM Mag Card II

by rupertveal＠hotmail.com

Hi I am a new user on this forum because I have an IBM Mag Card II that was left by a tenant in my building. I believe she was the only owner of it. I am was wondering if I could sell it/pass it on to someone else. What would it be worth if anything? It appears to be in good condition but I do not know if it works well or what components are in it. It has the main box and the keyboard/typewriter. I live in the LA area and as it weighs ~100lbs I think pick up would be the best idea. I can hold on to it for a while but need to get it moved soon. Rupe

20 years, 9 months

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DECwriters at Ft. Wayne Hamfest

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

There's a guy with a 3 DECwriter II/IIIs at the Ft. Wayne (IN, US) hamfest, asking for someone to haul them away for free. Find info on the hamfest from http://www.arrl.org If intersted, go there and pick them up on Sunday. The guy is just looking for a good home for them, he said he'll leave them there if no one wants them. No connection to seller, etc, so don't ask me for details. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

20 years, 9 months

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Monty Python CD-ROM?

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I dug out my "Monty Python's Complete Watse of Time" software today, and the CD isn't in the box. Does anybody have the media for this? I could download an ISO image or pay shipping for a copy. Can provide proof that I previously owned it (as in a scan of the box and the CD booklet). Thanks! PS - And yes, it's on-topic. Doc

20 years, 9 months

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Need recommendations on a terminal server setup

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Alright, I'm getting ready to make my 11/23+ available online for people to play with, but I'm a bit stumped as far as how I should attach the serial lines to my Ethernet network. Now, I have a Sun server running Solaris 10 which I was able to connect a couple serial lines to and then tunneled that through a telnet port, but I'd rather not do that...with the setup I'm thinking of, we're talking about a whole lot of cable running into that box. Does anyone here have suggestions on what I should use for a terminal server? If I could just mount a DECserver box in my PDP-11 chassis that would be great, but isn't the Ethernet port DECnet-only? I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to this, so feel free to correct me. As always, any help is appreciated Julian

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Ultrix for DECstations > From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink at verizon.net> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:50:14 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >> First choice when all else fails, vi. > >Can't resist... really, when _ALL_ else fails, ex. Did you mean ED??? That loathsome excuse for a tool! I'd rather hurt myself before using that. Scratch that. Every time I've used it, I did hurt myself. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 20 2005, 0:55, Tony Duell wrote: > What is the benefit of an asymmetic clock? Or more precisely, why > does it help? I forget whether it's the mark that's longer than the space, or the other way round, but in essence the longer interval gives the hardware longer to respond and means you can run the network significantly faster. An Econet will run happily over a range of speeds, the upper limit being determined mainly by the length of the network, but for really short networks, ultimately the speed depends on the interfaces. > I would guess, without any evidence, that it detects the lack of clock > using the same method that a Beeb uses to display the 'no clock' > message and then enables the internal clock if necessary. I believe so. However, Field change Order No. 2020 says "Design error: Bi-phase network clock is 180 degrees out of phase with clocks generated by Econet Clock Boxes and E01S Filestores. Consequently the system fails to recognise the presence of an external clock when these are installed in large networks. This can cause unreliable data transfer." The fix given is to cut the tracks on the component side of the PCB, between IC26 pin 14 and SK10 pin 4, and between IC26 pin 15 and SK10 pin 5; then on the solder side link IC26-14 to SK10-5 and IC26-15 to SK10-4. I'm not quite sure what this implies for clock detection. Since the clock is free-running it won't remain phase-locked to anything else, let alone an external clock, so why that should affect the detection I don't know. Presumably something to do with the uneven mark-space ratio. > > > and a 34 pin > > > header. I am told this is to add a hard disk, and it looks similar to > > a > > > Beeb's 1MHz bus. I assume it takes the normal SASI host adapter and > > ST506 > > > bridgboard (I have spares of those somewhere...) > > > > Yes. > > I am now confused. Your last message on this (the one Lee pointed me at) > says it uses a SCSI and not SASI disk. I don't think the 34 pin header > carries the SCSI signals (does it? -- I've not removed the PCB yet to > look what it's connected to). Do I use the Acorn host adapter card and > put a SCSI disk on the other side of it? Or is it a special host adapter > that I haven't a hope of finding, or what? Well, the normal ACB4000 bridgeboard is actually SCSI, not SASI, but it's an early implementation and doesn't use the Common Command Set. All I said was "Yes" -- *you* wrote SASI :-) The winchester host adaptor board doesn't have the ATN line though. Actually, I was slightly off the mark. The 34-pin connector is for a box called an E20 containing a winchester adaptor (same as the Beeb one) and a 3.5" 20MB SCSI drive (native SCSI, no bridgeboard). It's basically a BBC 1MHz bus, but running at 2MHz like the one on a Master 128 or compact. Later types of filestore, called the Stacking Filestore, used SCSI disks without an adaptor board in the disk box. Those units have E01S instead of E01 on the front, product code AEH35 instead of AEH26, the bus connector is a standard 50-way Centronics-style connector carrying the SCSI bus, and the hard disk boxes would be labeled E40S, E60S instead of E20. The two digits gives the storage capacity, incidentally. > More pressing is the lack of drives and cables. I assume the floppy > drives are plain, 300 rpm, 80 cylinder, ones. Anyhting I should know > about them? Pretty ordinary SA400-interface double-sided 80-track single/double density half-height 3.5" drives, normally Sony F6 3W drives as fitted to Master Compact and similar machines including some early Archimedes or Citizen drives as fitted to other Archimedes machines. Some of the Citizen drives need a small mod (remove R61). Drives intended for PCs may or may not work because they may not respond correctly to DS0 and DS1. > > I should have the manual somewhere. You shouldn't need to change > > any > > If you find it, I'd be interested in seeing a copy... I thought Jules Richardson had scanned the user manual and service manual. Links 1 enable I/O IRQs 2 enable A15 adressing 3 enable 1?s network clock source 4 enable 2?s network clock source 5 enable network clock divide by 2 6 enable network clock divide by 4 7 enable network clock divide by 8 8 enable network NMIs 10 disable 0000-7FFF addressing 13 enable ROM latch There's more at the BBC Documentation Project, http://members.aon.at/~musher/bbc/econet.htm, and at The BBC Lives! site, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/dir.php3?dir=doc Another place to look is http://beebmaster.co.uk/EconetHelp.html And of course the BBC mailing list (email majordomo AT cloud9 co uk or look for the archive -- presently down for maintenance -- at http://jonripley.com/8bit/bmlarchive/) and the comp.sys.acorn.networking newsgroup. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Which paper tape hole is bit 1?

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 19 2005, 9:58, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Barry" == Barry Watzman <Watzman at neo.rr.com> writes: > > Barry> However, one question, this chart shows the high-order bit > Barry> (parity bit) punched for every character, no exceptions. Was > Barry> that a standard convention in sending ascii files to paper > Barry> tape? > > You mean the high order bit was always on -- as opposed to being a > parity bit? That's unusual. Parity is a bit more common, but I don't > think there was a single standard. Classic ASCII is a 7-bit code, > leaving the 8th bit for people to mess with as they saw fit. It's called "mark parity", though it's not really a parity indicator at all, just a way of defining that that bit is always set. It's exactly equivalent to having 7-bit data with an extra stop bit and not unusual at all on PDP-8s, in fact it's the norm. All DEC-supplied ASR33s were set for mark parity, as far as I know. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Looking for C3642 and C3552's

by Useddec＠aol.com

Hi, I'm looking for 5 or 10 (maybe more!) of each of these. Anybody have any extras in stock? Thanks, Paul

20 years, 9 months

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Corvus (was Fortune Systems)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

A Corvus _Unix_ box? What was the model designation for this beast? I have a Corvus Concept 68k with shelves full of manuals and lots of software. None of it seems to be Unix-y. -- Do you have the service manual for the Corvus Omnidrive? I've been trying to find that for the bitsavers archive for a while now. Corvus took the basic Concept hardware and added a SUN-style MMU to the memory board and tried to sell it with Unisoft Unix as a first try at a Unix computer. This machine didn't have a bitmapped display. There were several iterations of the design (Frank McConnell may remember all of them). The two that probably sold the most were to Valid Systems as the SCALDstation, and to Unisys.

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 19 2005, 2:14, Tony Duell wrote: > Are there any Econet enthusiasts here? Yes :-) > I've just bought most of an Acorn Econet fileserver (it's missing the 2 > floppy drioves and their cables, the mainboard and PSU look intact). > > The mainboard contains : > 65C102 CPU > 64K EPROM (2 off 27256). I've not tried to look at their contents yet There are several versions of the firmware, each with its own little idiosyncracies ;-) One EPROM is the MOS and the other is the fileserver code, as you might expect. > 64K DRAM > WD2793 disk controller (not what I'd expect from Acorn) > 6522 VIA > Real time clcok chip and backup battery > TTL glue > An Econet module (looks like the one used in a Master or Arc, the type > with the hardware collision detection). Oddly theres a 26LS30 on the > mainboard, does this thing source the Exonet clock too? Yes, it does, and it's a decent asymmetric clock. It's supposed to switch itself off (or actually, I suspect, not switch on at boot time) if it detects another clock already on the wire. > The PSU looks to be a normal switch-mode unit giving +5V and +12V > > On the back are the 5 pin DIN econet socket, a 26 pin header identified > as 'Printer' (presumably wired as a BBC micro printer port) Yes, just as normal. > and a 34 pin > header. I am told this is to add a hard disk, and it looks similar to a > Beeb's 1MHz bus. I assume it takes the normal SASI host adapter and ST506 > bridgboard (I have spares of those somewhere...) Yes. > On the front are 2 LEDs (power and mode) and what looks like a > reflectiove optoswitch (why?) The optoswitch detects whether the front panel is in the open or closed state. When closed, the box starts up as a server. When open, it runs in maintenance mode. The plastic "hinges" were rather fragile and frequently broke, leading sometimes to the loss of the cover. > Can anyone tell me anything more about it, how to use it, what the > intenral links do, etc? I should have the manual somewhere. You shouldn't need to change any links. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Which paper tape hole is bit 1?

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

Today I was hooking up my homebrewed driver board to the M-series connector on the back of my Tally 420PR tape punch (interfaces to my 8/A and . Fortunately, before I inserted the eight data pins into the connector body it occurred to me that Tally and DEC might not interpret the holes in the same order. And indeed they don't! The paper tape has five holes on one side of the sprocket hole and three on the other. Typical DEC terminology is Bit 1 = MSB and Bit 8 = LSB. Is that in fact how DEC labeled it? Is the MSB on the outside of the 5-hole side or the 3-hole side? Which hole on the tape is which? Even more interestingly, Tally labels their punch pins as follows: (* is the sprocket hole) 8 7 6 1 2 * 3 4 5 and I confirmed this by actual test. So much for consistency <sigh> -Charles

20 years, 9 months

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Cheapest PCI prototyping?

by cclist＠sydex.com

Most of the PCI prototyping boards that I've seen are either outrageously expensive or absolutely bare (i.e. no interface logic at all)--and still not that inexpensive. Does anyone know of a reasonable (<$100) PCI prototyping kit with a reasonable amount of interface logic built on? Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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How exactly do PAL chips get programmed?

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:33:45 +0000 (GMT) >From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >Some manufactuerers did not copy-protect their PALs. For example, all the >PALs in the VAX 11/730 CPU are readable (for all they're the key to the >design). All PALs in every PERQ I've seen (including the AGW3300) are >readable. All PALs in the Torch XXX -- apart from those on the (3rd >party?) 68020 kludgeboard -- are readable. But then again, most PALs on >clone ISA boards are protected. > >If the original chip is a HAL, you are out of luck. HAL == Hard Array >Logic, it's a mask-programmed equivalent to a PAL. I've never found one >that can be read out, I suspect the circuitry simply isn't there. Oops. Forgot to mention in my previous message. I saw a programmer the other day that said it supported user defined test inputs to PLDs. There wasn't any detail, but it sounded like you could use the thing to set up a set of input data and get the results that come out of a PLD. This could be much faster than sticking the target chip on a breadboard and flipping switches and reading LEDs to compare I/O. Let's see, (checks bookmarks) it was the Dataman 48Pro. Unfortunately, it retails for about $1000. Here's a quote from the blurb: " Dataman 48Pro isn't only a programmer, but also a tester of TTL/CMOS logic ICs and memories. Furthermore, it allows the generation of user-definable test pattern sequences for PLD devices." I have a Needham EMP-30 which will program the smaller PALs but I don't think it has any provision for nifty testing of the I/O of the things. Jeff Walther

20 years, 9 months

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removing parts from PCBs

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:48:14 -0800 >From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> >On 11/14/2005 at 11:24 PM Jeff Walther wrote: > >>For big surface mount chips I like to use Chip Quik desoldering >>alloy, which will lower the melting point of the solder on the board. >>If I preapply Chip Quik, I can usually use the 600F setting for a >>minute or two to loosen a chip. I've successfully done this on chips >>as large as 208 pin QFPs. > >Jeff, unless the thermostat on your heat gun is faulty, you should be able >to go much lower than 600F, shouldn't you? 60/40 solder flows at about >370F. You would think so, wouldn't you? As I recall, I tried lower temperatures first and it just took too long for the solder to loosen. My back of a beer soaked envelope explanation would be that the heat is conducting away at some rate and so one needs a higher temperature source than the target temperature. But beats me. The 600F setting is the one that gets the chips loose in about 2 minutes. The heat gun could be poorly calibrated. It was inexpensive but gets the job done. Interestingly, if I'm doing a bunch of boards, e.g. pulling the flash off of cheap ATA-66 cards, after the first card the following ones go faster. Either the heat gun takes a while to reach its set temperature, or my work area gets hot and helps the boards along or something. I use a 1/16" sheet of sheet metal as a work surface. I figure it's anti-static protection and fairly impervious to mechanical, chemical and thermal insult. >It seems to me that I've also seen special desoldering rigs that use hot >air and a special nozzle to better focus the airstream. I've heard of those, but they seem to cost multiple hundreds of dollars. I like the < $40 heat gun + modeling clay solution. That's a little bit of hyperbole as I also have dental picks and the Chip Quik set for the big chips and a nice bottle of resin. With those and a 15W and a 40W soldering pencil I manage. >Thanks for the tip on Chip Quik; from the MSDS, it appears to be a >Tin-Indium alloy. I thought there was bismuth involved but the memory is moldy. It melts/mixes in with the existing solder and lowers the melting point. That's the point behind the stuff. It's fairly expensive, but very little of it is needed per desoldered chip. And four beads of the stuff makes the big QFPs come off soooo much easier. Jeff Walther

20 years, 9 months

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How exactly do PAL chips get programmed?

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:33:45 +0000 (GMT) >From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >Some manufactuerers did not copy-protect their PALs. For example, all the >PALs in the VAX 11/730 CPU are readable (for all they're the key to the >design). All PALs in every PERQ I've seen (including the AGW3300) are >readable. All PALs in the Torch XXX -- apart from those on the (3rd >party?) 68020 kludgeboard -- are readable. But then again, most PALs on >clone ISA boards are protected. > >If the original chip is a HAL, you are out of luck. HAL == Hard Array >Logic, it's a mask-programmed equivalent to a PAL. I've never found one >that can be read out, I suspect the circuitry simply isn't there. There are a couple of articles in the archives about reverse engineering the behaviour of PALs. One article started out very promisingly (to my inexperienced eye) and the author stated that parts 2 & 3 were to follow, but they never did. Oh well. I would like to clone the external floppy drive and SCSI adapter for the Outbound Model 125. I've acquired most of the required parts for each. However, they each have a GAL 16V8 (just one per product) installed. The terror at trying to figure the contents of that GAL has been stalling me for months (well that, plus all the other stuff around here, like getting the autumn garden planted). How heat sensitive are PALs and GALs? Am I likely to deprogram the thing when I desolder it from the board? Jeff Walther

20 years, 9 months

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first power up, Osborne 1

by drb＠msu.edu

I just dug my Osborne 1 out of the attic after probably 10-15 years. Blue case, double density motherboard. Anyone have thoughts about osborne-specific things I should do before just powering it up? It was in working order when stored, and has been dry. De

20 years, 9 months

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Anyone have Practical Computing, December 1978?

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

... apparently (according to a letter in a later issue that I'm looking at) they did a review of the RML 380Z - I'd be rather grateful for a scan of the article if anyone has a copy of that issue (and a scanner :) cheers Jules

20 years, 9 months

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Shipping between US and Canada

by shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com

"vrs" <vrs at msn.com> wrote: > > Anyone with expereince shipping USA to Canada? > > > > I'm talking small stuff, some eproms or manuals maybe a board. > > around the USA I'd just pack a box and off to the post office. > > That should work, but mail to Canada is notoriously slow and subject > to random failures. > > Most of the stuff I've had shipped from Canada was done with UPS, > since they seem to have a presence on both sides of the border. > (I don't know if it is called UPS there, though.) Then you get > delivery dates and tracking and such, for a few extra $. > > If you do more than $500 in a year (I think it is), you also turn > into an importer-exporter, and your packages get zapped with duties. > (That happened to me one year that I was buying stuff on ePay from > Canada.) (That's really weird because it is a subsidiary of UPS that > attempts to collect from you, rather than some government agency.) > > For larger stuff, I'd go with FedEx (but stay away from the helpful > little stores with their extra fees, and look for the regional center). > > HTH, > > Vince Vince - Mailing inside Canada via Canada Post is notoriously slow and subject to random failures. When I lived in British Columbia, regular mail to/from the "rest" of Canada (notably provinces like Quebec, Ontario) took weeks and randomly disappeared quite often too. And this doesn't count the weeks-long postal workers' strikes. Best situation if the recipient is near the border is to ship to a mailboxes-type place on the US side of the border. Most require the recipient to be a regular monthly mailbox renter but some are more flexible. Tim.

20 years, 9 months

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Shipping between US and Canada

by shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com

Allison wrote: > This is NON_COMMERCIAL and may weigh more than 4 pounds (less than 12) > as paper is heavy. If it'll fit in a big envelope (truly all paper) then far and away the easiest way is to just send it USPS and it'll arrive via Canada Post on the other side, you probably won't have to fill out a declaration form at all. If you put it in a box then you'll have to fill out a simple declaration form at the post office. If you send it via UPS and/or Fedex then you'll have to prepare a bill of sale/bill of lading enumerating the contents, their cost/value (not necessarily the same!), country of origin, etc. If you've done these before it's a rather simple form but it can be daunting if you've never done it before and the shipment gets hung up because you forgot one little detail. The USPS declaration form is really much easier especially for shipments of items of small/no commercial value. Tim.

20 years, 9 months

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WTD: Fuse PROM programming specs / datasheets

by philpem＠dsl.pipex.com

Hi, Does anyone happen to have copies of any of the following documents? - Generic I Programming Specification (Signetics) - Generic II Programming Specification (Signetics) - Programming spec for the 74S*** fuse PROMs (National Semiconductor) - Programming spec for the 6*** series PROMs (MMI / Monolithic Memories) - Programming spec for the 27S*** series PROMs (AMD) - 76** series programming spec (Harris) - also datasheets (or at least pinouts) for 74S, 6***, 76** and 27S PROMs I'm trying to build a PROM reader/programmer, and I'd like to make it as versatile as possible. At the very least, I want to program 82S129s with it, but programming them is rather difficult without the specs for the algorithms. I've already got the Generic I spec, but my copy is incomplete - it covers 82S129s and I suspect it was probably included in one of the Signetics databooks at one time. Of course, not having access to any databooks older than 1997 makes it a little difficult to track the info down... Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB 100baseT philpem at philpem.me.uk | Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxe R2 512MB+100GB http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Panasonic CF-25 Mk.2 Toughbook ... Happiness is a twit filter

20 years, 9 months

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Which paper tape hole is bit 1?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Which paper tape hole is bit 1? > From: "Barry Watzman" <Watzman at neo.rr.com> > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:50:58 -0500 > To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >I have a chart of paper tape hole patterns for all 128 characters, and it >shows the LSB (bit zero, although the chart numbers them 1-8) as the edge >hole on the 3-hole side, with the bits in order 0 to 7 (or 1 to 8). > >However, one question, this chart shows the high-order bit (parity bit) >punched for every character, no exceptions. Was that a standard convention >in sending ascii files to paper tape? There were three, even, odd and stick (usually 1 but could be 0). TTY when used with PDP-8 was stick at 1 (hole). PDP-8 convention was stick at 1 (hole) for ascii PDP-8 RIM format channel 8 is not used and channel 7 signals addres or data pair (lower six bits x4 for 12 bits address and 12bits data). This allows the 4 six bit pairs to specify and address and data anywhere and non consecutively. PDP-8 BIN format bit 7 was 2 6bit addresses to follow and then the rest are data (six bit pairs). The address is an origin and the data follows in sequential locations. Nominal PDP-8 use was short BIN loader hand toggled in. Load bin tape that contains small BIN format program or loads the RIM loader for more complex programs (basic, focal). BASIC would then read an ascii program tape. Some systems the 8th hole was used for data. PDP8 convention for hole numbering is outside 3 hole side is 1 and numbered through 8 across. 1 2 3 S 4 5 6 7 8 Allison

20 years, 9 months

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DEC 861B and 871B power controllers

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

I'm looking for a spare 871B power controller -- that's the smaller 8A 240V type, with six outlets, used on smaller QBus PDP-11 systems. I have a rack with more than one system, and I'd like to be able to switch two of them on and off independantly from their front panels. I might have a spare 861B (that's the larger 12-outlet 16A 240V version) to trade if that helps. Size and weight suggest it would be better for me to find one in the UK, ideally near York, if possible :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Need recommendations on a terminal server setup

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Nov 18 2005, 15:13, Wolfe, Julian wrote: > I'm getting ready to make my 11/23+ available online for people to play > with, but I'm a bit stumped as far as how I should attach the serial lines > to my Ethernet network. At home, I have a Xylogics Annex terminal server with connections to some consoles, including (when I sort out the cables) my PDP-8, 11/23+ and 11/40. Most of those aren't switched on all the time, though. It also has a real VT420 and a Wyse 50, and a few other things attached. Elsewhere, I have an Origin2000 and its MMSC which I'd like to be able to talk to, and I thought of a similar sort of thing as you -- an old laptop running Linux. I also have a spare Racal Interlan terminal server that would do the job, and I've seen Cisco 1000-series, 1600-series, and 2500-series boxes going cheap on eBay that would suit. Some ofthem support 8 or 16 serial lines. However, I've found a little Lantronix MSS1-T which is effectively a 1-port terminal server. If you need several serial lines connected from one PDP-11, go for a terminal server, mounted in the same rack as the PDP. If you're thinking of buying a Cisco or similar, make sure it's a terminal (or console) server -- Cisco call them access servers. The ones with one or two WAN serial ports are not what you want. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 9 months

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Minix

by RMeenaks＠olf.com

Yep, close to 50% and the materials are IDENTICAL! We americans love bond paper and color diagrams, so we end up paying twice as much for textbooks. This semester alone cost me $450 for 3 textbooks and none of them were international editions. There was one book that costs $150 and the international edition was only $60! Ram > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gil Carrick > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 10:29 AM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Minix > > > International editions of the textbooks are cheaper. Usually > published in paperback and on thinner paper, etc. We have > many international students here at UTA, many from India. > They almost always have international editions of their texts > that they buy over there and bring with them. I am not sure > of the difference, but I think it must be substantial. Less > than 50% of the price of the standard edition I am sure. > > Gil > >

20 years, 9 months

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WTB: HP-85B...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I have an HP-85 - but am interested in acquiring an HP-85B w/128K memory. Please contact me off-list if you have one you'd be willing to sell or trade... Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:02:27 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Scott Stevens wrote: > >>It's not licence-bound to a book the way earlier versions were. You can download Minix from their website at no cost at all. >> >>http://minix1.hampshire.edu/ >> >>or >> >>http://www.minix3.org/ >> >> >But I like the book, note I lost my copy a few years ago. Hard copy is nice. > It is. I have the version that came with 2.02 on CD. Excellent book and reference. Worth the price. Whats nice about it I can read the text, look at the code, run it if I care to and borrow ideas. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Which paper tape hole is bit 1?

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

I have a chart of paper tape hole patterns for all 128 characters, and it shows the LSB (bit zero, although the chart numbers them 1-8) as the edge hole on the 3-hole side, with the bits in order 0 to 7 (or 1 to 8). However, one question, this chart shows the high-order bit (parity bit) punched for every character, no exceptions. Was that a standard convention in sending ascii files to paper tape?

20 years, 9 months

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Minix

by carlos＠jimulco.autonoma.edu.co

Tony Duell wrote: > 'This edition may be sold only in those countries to which it is > consigned by Prentice Hall International. It is not to be re-exported and > it is not for sale in the USA, Mexico or Canada' > > No idea why not. > > -tony It is an "International Student Edition". Some publishing companies offer these paperback editions in poorer countries where people couldn't possibly afford the hard back edition. Some are even translated to other languages (even mandarin). carlos. Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez email: carlos_murillo at ieee.org Dean of Engineering, Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia ---- "Western civilization... thought like the greek, organized itself like the romans and believed in itself like the hebrew." -- Ortega y Gasset.

20 years, 9 months

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Sun-1 Revival

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

A few years back, I was lucky enought to get the opportunity to exchange an (equally rare) Unix workstation for a Sun-1. The Sun-1 was in great shape, with everything intact, except it is missing the CPU card. This is 100U, so its not the very first Sun-1 with a 68000, rather it uses the later 68010 board which was common in lots of other systems (Sun-2, etc). Despite all this, and having looked for a few years now - I'm still unable to track down a multibus Sun CPU card. So if anyone out there has a spare, or a board that needs repair, etc. Let me know! Any 68010 multibus Sun card would do. Many thanks Ian. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 9 months

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1975 H-P Catalog

by dm561＠torfree.net

Anybody want a 1975 H-P Electronics Instruments and Systems catalog? 572 pages, hard cover, mostly test equipment with abt 25 pages of calculators, computers (HP 21MX & 2000 series) & peripherals. Pictures, model numbers, descriptions & prices. $20. + S&H mike

20 years, 9 months

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Heath HTX-10 keyboard

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I saw this keyboard kit on eBay today. Any idea exactly what it is? Is it a serial/parallel keyboard kit or is it a Ham Radio-type item? I'm totally ignorant of Heath items and I used to have an old catalog but I can't find it. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

20 years, 9 months

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Classiccmp goes mainstream...

by jos.mar＠bluewin.ch

A local ( Zurich, Switzerland ) shopping centre is holding an exhibition on the development of the computer. Not very big, but some real nice hardware is on display. Among then are : - Straight pdp-8 -ETH / Diser Lilith modula2 machine - Altair, Imsai, - HP IPC, HP110,HP150 - hp9100, hp67, hp01, Wang 700, Friden -IBM360 ( console only ) And a whole slew of lesser machines and calculators. Also some mechanical calculators ( Curta etc ) Shopping center is Letzipark www.letzipark.ch I noticed a fair bit of interest of the people doing their weekly shopping. Jos Dreesen

20 years, 9 months

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Clyde Just Offr

by baumereku＠hazadata.com

forsooth! A HALF-FAMISHED JACKDAW seated himself on a fig-tree, which had LPVXVACerIaAmIvoAnLbAizGaIiLtaRxUeIracA MnS 3,35 1,20 3,70 http://www.geocities.com/AngviHenslBli/ The Trumpeter Taken Prisoner the fable, so conspicuous in the great Greek fabulist. The exact to meet special circumstances, are so admirably constructed as to

20 years, 9 months

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How exactly do PAL chips get programmed?

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:41:28 -0500 >From: "Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> >Subject: How exactly do PAL chips get programmed? >As some of you might recall I was looking for drivers for my Tokamac II FX >PDS card on my mac IIfx. Well I found the drivers from the original company >founder. I read in Macworld (and had it confirmed from the company contact) >that you need a PAL chip on the IIfx reprogrammed (or replaced?) because >Apple screwed up BUS mastering on the IIfx and nobody caught on at the time >because those types of cards were rare. > >Well I have found another person who has the same card AND the PAL chip >needed on his unit but is having other problems getting his setup to work. > >What I want to know is are PAL chips somewhat like eprons in getting >programmed or is there some other process involved? Does anybody know of a >way to get a pre programmed chip dumped so it can be duplicated or do you >need the original chip (or code) to do this? If I can be duplicated does >anybody here have equipment to do it? PAL chips require a programming machine that supports them in order to program them. Many of the PROM programming machines also support PALs. Tony already covered the facts about reading out an existing PAL. But, since you were able to contact the company founder regarding the software, is there any chance he could supply you with the revised PAL code? That would be much simpler than desoldering the other fellow's PAL and trying to read it out. I have a Needham EMP-30. It will program Lattice GALs and AMD PALs >from 16V8 up to 22V10. Anything more complicated than that and my machine doesn't support it, I think. I'm willling to help and am in Austin, TX. What package is the PAL in? Probably PLCC or DIP, and I'm betting PLCC. Whoever helps you with the programming will need the appropriate adapter for the PAL you are using. DIP is no problem as the programmers come with a large DIP ZIF socket. However, PLCC will require an adapter or the building of an adapter. >Does anybody here have any experience with a IIfx running a Tokamac II FX >upgrade processor? No experience with that setup. I'm still working on my IIfx 16 MB SIMM project. It's slow at the moment because I need to do an 8" X 11" panel of PCB for economical reasons, and my layout software doesn't copy and paste traces, just other board features. Very tedious. Jeff Walther

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

> On the front are 2 LEDs (power and mode) and what looks like > a reflectiove optoswitch (why?) > Can anyone tell me anything more about it, how to use it, what > the intenral links do, etc? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-October/028831.html Lee. ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk superstars - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/

20 years, 9 months

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8008?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Scott Stevens" <chenmel at earthlink.net> > >On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:34:22 -0800 >"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > >> So what's an 8008 chip worth? I've got one that I don't need. I'll >> entertain reasonable offers. >> > >If you look on eBay you'll discover people seem to be willing to pay quite a bit for them. > >Nearly three figures in some instances. > Hi There is some variation based on the date code as well. Some are worth more than others. Dwight

20 years, 9 months

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Classic embedded development tools

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

The FPGA/Xilinx swearing around here reminds me... Many years ago (OK, decades, actually a good chunk of a century now) the tools for doing embedded software development from the manufacturers were: 1. Distributed as source code 2. Widely portable 3. Well-documented in terms of file formats Examples are the Intel 8008 PL/M compiler they released in Fortran and the original PALASM (Monolithic Memories?) in Fortran. (IIRC the PALASM source appeared in printed form in one of the manuals). Even for commercial tools, the three "good things" enumerated above were often true. The reason for this openness was because user's didn't all have identical development platforms, often they had access to a timesharing system or a departmental minicomputer that they used for cross-compilation etc. Since then of course the tools have become MSDOS/Windows-only, distributed only as binaries, and sometimes the file formats/ programming process are trade secrets (often reverse-engineered by those using them!) I can see why this happened: supposedly everybody had a PC-clone running Microsoft software, so you could just give away or sell binaries instead of source code. Of course, freeware embedded tools (e.g. GNU and others) today reflect a backlash against the Windows-ization of embedded development tools. A similar thing has happened to SPICE (most users are not using the open-source Berkeley code but instead proprietary versions which lock them in to a specific vendor and that vendor's component models). And there's the backlash to this in the open-source community (SPICE3 with ngspice/gEDA and some GUI's layered on top of it.) But in my experience, outside the hobbyist community the freeware embedded tools don't have much traction. I'd be glad to be proven wrong! Actually I do know of a couple of small commercial projects that used gcc for StrongARM and have heard of a couple that use gcc for MSP430. I myself use gputils (GNU PIC utilities) and gpsim occasionally and am occasionally forced to plunge into hell with commercial embedded development tools (which mostly suck) under Windows. OK, that's my pontification for this morning. Tim.

20 years, 9 months

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Acorn Econet Fileserver

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Are there any Econet enthusiasts here? I've just bought most of an Acorn Econet fileserver (it's missing the 2 floppy drioves and their cables, the mainboard and PSU look intact). The mainboard contains : 65C102 CPU 64K EPROM (2 off 27256). I've not tried to look at their contents yet 64K DRAM WD2793 disk controller (not what I'd expect from Acorn) 6522 VIA Real time clcok chip and backup battery TTL glue An Econet module (looks like the one used in a Master or Arc, the type with the hardware collision detection). Oddly theres a 26LS30 on the mainboard, does this thing source the Exonet clock too? The PSU looks to be a normal switch-mode unit giving +5V and +12V On the back are the 5 pin DIN econet socket, a 26 pin header identified as 'Printer' (presumably wired as a BBC micro printer port) and a 34 pin header. I am told this is to add a hard disk, and it looks similar to a Beeb's 1MHz bus. I assume it takes the normal SASI host adapter and ST506 bridgboard (I have spares of those somewhere...) On the front are 2 LEDs (power and mode) and what looks like a reflectiove optoswitch (why?) Can anyone tell me anything more about it, how to use it, what the intenral links do, etc? -tony

20 years, 9 months

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and 4004 Re: 8008?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "steve" <gkicomputers at yahoo.com> > > >> >> What's odd is that th 4004's are going for very >> little, even though they're >> an "older' MPU. >> >not sure where your looking, but on ebay they don't, >the C4004's go for hundreds, the C8008's for $20-$50 >(about the same as the D4004) > Hi I often time wonder what a working sim4-01 setup would go for. Not that I'd sell mine but I've been thinking of a donation to the CHM. If I knew the value I might get a tax write off. I've never seen one come up on ebay and only know of a couple others. I'd be interested to know if others on the list might have one? Dwight

20 years, 9 months

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Fastest NSC800? ?JUNK MAIL? 4

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > >Did National ever make a version of the NSC800 that ran faster than 4 MHz? >If so, where can I get one? > >Cheers, >Chuck > Hi I'm not sure if it was faster but they did put is in a small module with Forth on ROM and some I/O. I think they called the series RA2000 or something like that. I have a couple of these modules someplace. Dwight

20 years, 9 months

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Need recommendations on a terminal server setup

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Does anyone here have suggestions on what I should use for a > terminal server? If I could just mount a DECserver box in my > PDP-11 chassis that would be great, but isn't the Ethernet > port DECnet-only? Livingston Portmasters can be had cheap on epay.

20 years, 9 months

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OT: Computer Collector homepage might be down for a bit

by news＠computercollector.com

Switching my site to a different hoster, so there will probably be some downtime and/or oddities tonight and tomorrow. - Evan Koblentz ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Computer Collector Newsletter: http://news.computercollector.com Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists & Museum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/

20 years, 9 months

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wanted stuph (mostly Big Blue)

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

IBM 3196 terminal, preferably color, similarly #'ed models might be...similar, not sure. Might consider one of *those* IBM DisplayWriter IBM 5520 IBM 5120 IBM System 23/Datamaster IBM RT stuph Mindset computer, Canon AS-100, Atari PC2, Victor 9000, Zenith Z-100/120, Atari ST series units and parts, maybe an Atari 130XE. Kind of have a hankering for an Amiga 2000 or later *box*. Located in NJ, or PA, or LI, depends on the day of the week. Could possibly trade some groovy stuph. Pickups possible. __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

20 years, 9 months

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Motorola Intergrated Circuit Data Book, 1968, eBay Item number: 8723261842

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

I have a copy of this one -- definitely worth owning. http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-Intergrated-Circuit-Data-Book-1968_W0QQitemZ87… eBay: Motorola Intergrated Circuit Data Book, 1968 (item 8723261842 end time Nov-20-05 17:53:19 PST) --Bill

20 years, 9 months

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Sun-1 Revival

by ghrx＠solivant.com

I have a 100u that I plan eventually to revive, too. I also have a few spare boards that I want to hang on to, but I think there's one or two 2/120 CPUs among them that I could part with. Contact me off line if you're interested. Geoff. ghrx.at.solivant.com >So if anyone out there has a spare, or a board that >needs repair, etc. Let me know! Any 68010 multibus >Sun card would do. >

20 years, 9 months

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I8008 Micro-computer

by phillipmilks＠netzero.com

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20051118/1a19c6a3/at…>

20 years, 9 months

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Did someone have a pdp11/24?

by Useddec＠aol.com

Hi John, They could be lost in my AOL span filters. Is there a # I can call you? Thanks, Paul

20 years, 9 months

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