- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by sieler＠allegro.com

Re: > Ohhh - nice big power hungry ECL based Classic 3000! Really slow > compared to later PA-RISC cousins, but a nice machine. Pair this with a > Stan Seiler might have some additional color. I was working in the RTE (Sieler: i before e) The HP 3000/64, /68, and /70 were nice, big machines. My company still has a client running an HP 3000/70 ... they claim they've twice tried to migrate to a newer (PA-RISC based) HP 3000, but that each time the migration "failed" (no one there now remembers anything about the failures :) They're running it with the clock set back 28 years to avoid Y2K problems. The 3000/64 was interesting. IIRC, it could have about 8 MB of RAM (based on both marketing and operating system limitations), but the backplane had enough wires/signals that it could really support something like 128 MB. So, when we created the RAM disk for it (with Kelly Computer Systems), we were able to stick in something like up to seven 16 MB boards for a large (in those days) RAM disk. We were disappointed to see that the /68 and /70 reduced the backplane's ability to talk to memory down to 32 MB ... so we changed our RAM disk to use bank switching. I remember being amused because the engineer who was tasked with making the board design changes was a nice guy named Lim (#1). We got a surprising bump in orders during the buildup to the first Gulf War, because the Navy used a lot of 3000/70s and needed to speed up processing (and they chose to use our RAM disk). Stan #1: LIM = Lotus-Intel-Microsoft, the guys who "invented" bank switching for the IBM PC sometime after it was already on the market from Tall Tree Systems. -- Stan Sieler sieler at allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html

19 years, 8 months

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SPAM::cctalk Digest, Vol 40, Issue 58

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 5:09 -0600 12/24/06, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >A new mainframe. :) > >http://computer-refuge.org/compcollect/ibm/s390/mp2003/ > >Happy holidays to all! > >Pat Uh oh. http://stats.distributed.net/misc/platformlist.php?project_id=25&view=tco notes, down at the bottom, that my 68k NeXT cube [1] is just about, finally, after many years of trying, to crunch enough OGR-25 units to surpass the total done by S/390's (under Linux). Sure hope Pat keeps that beauty (for which, let me add my congratulations!) on its original OS.... :-) Happy New Year to all! [1] I *think* I have the only 68k NeXT contributing to that project... -- Mark Tapley, Dwarf Engineer (I haven't cleared my neighborhood) 210-379-4635 Dwarf Phone, 210-522-6025 Office Phone

19 years, 8 months

1
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This just MADE my day

by sieler＠allegro.com

Re: > Something else to think about is that he can claim copywrite on the > compilation of those scans, thereby preventing you from posting *HIS* > scans, so just do yours at a higher resolution :^) I'm not sure you can claim copyright on a collection of copyright violations :) With the evil copyright laws, I suspect that the originals are still protected by copyright. (Making a scanned copy for backup would be legit, but not selling that scanned copy separate from the original.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright is a nice background piece. -- Stan Sieler sieler at allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html

19 years, 8 months

1
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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > Going slightly OT, I assume the same thing > > would happen to any rubber rollers in VHS > > players, and be the main (only?) reason why > > VHS players start chewing VHS tapes? > > I've not (yet) aeen a video recorder where the > rollers have turned to > goo. Not saying it can't happen, though. > > The usueal reason for tape chewins is wear on the > reel-drive idler which > means the tape is not wound nack into the cassette > on eject (And may not > be properly taken up during play/record, so it get s > tangled round bits of > the machine). Or wear of the backtension band so > that the tape loops on > the feed side of the head during play/record and > gets tangled. Or wear on > the pinch roller so that the tape runs away from t he > correct path. Ahhhhh. > > Assuming the heads are still good, a set of roller s > and tension band is > not expensive. Setting up the back tension is 'fun ', > and you will need a > service manual for the machine (but hey, do you > really have a machine > that you don't have the service manual for?). > > > -tony > Service manual?!!! The only service manual I know I have is for my car. Everything else I have has manuals, but the service bit usually requires ringing the manufacturer to get them out. I know I have the VCR manual here somewhere..... Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

2
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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance

by joachim.thiemann＠gmail.com

Over the weekend, I got out two old DC-600 tape drives out of storage - a Wangtek and an Archive. Only the Wangtek has a SCSI-to-QIC24 interface board, but I think I can use that on either drive (the board may in fact be originally from the Archive drive anyways). Anyways, after a quick visual inspection and wiping some dust off, I did try it with an old DC-600 tape cartridge - one that I knew was not important. It loaded OK and I started an attempt to image the tape to a file. About 1/4 into the tape something started vibrating, quickly escalating and before I could do anything, the tape stopped. Result: rubber goo on the plastic roller that drives the DC-600 cartridge drive belt, some on the tape itself, and the tape shows deformation (wavy) on the top half. I had to toss it. The drive itself: the rubber roller driving the aforementioned plastic roller had melted. Clearly visible is the area where the rubber meets the cartridges' roller - the rubber is notched. Furthermore the rubber roller is no longer cylindrical. Luckily there seems to be no other damage to the drive - no rubber seems to have been deposited on the R/W head. Any idea what could have caused this and how to prevent it? I now have two options: I can move the SCSI-to-QIC24 interface to the Archive drive, but I want to make sure that the same doesn't happen there. The other option is to remove the melted rubber roller and steal the one from the Archive drive. The mechanisms of the drives are different (the Archive has a lever mechanism, whereas the Wangtek has a spring-loaded push mechanism) so it's hard for me to tell if I can even move the rubber roller. Is this maybe a component that can easily be obtained elsewhere? Any ideas? Joe.

19 years, 8 months

9
9
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value of PDP8e

by rpmerecki＠oaklandmicrofilm.com

Good morning Heinz, My name is Pete and I work for a company that is trying to find a good home for (2) COM units that utilize the PDP8E computers. Did you ever market yours? Do you have any suggestions for marketing mine? Do you have any ideas about how to determine their value? Do you know anyone that is still utilizing this computer? We also have (2) RKO5 disk drives that also need a good home. Any and all suggestions will be welcomed. Respectfully R. Peter Merecki

19 years, 8 months

1
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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: and you will need a service manual for the machine (but hey, do you really have a machine that you don't have the service manual for?). -tony Yes, many machines. I can buy a new VCR/DVD combination for $89 with a one year warrenty. Why would I want to waste a weekend repairing a worn out VCR? That is time much better spent playing with my own designs, writing a utility routine, or working on some old unique piece of computer gear. Repairing a cheap piece of consumer electronics may be fun but the critical shortage in my life is time. There is never enough to do all the fun things, so I have to pick what gives the most pleasure. Repairing something just to say I can do is not on my list of priorities. Billy

19 years, 8 months

8
15
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IBM 2741 -- ASCII or EBCDIC?

by sdc695＠yahoo.com

Richard <legalize at xmission.com> said: > The subject pretty much says it all... which character code did the > 2741 typewriter/terminal use? Short answer: Neither. Long answer: 2741's came in two flavors, "correspondance" and "BCD" (someting close to PTTC/8). The serial code transmitted is 6 bits and parity (total of 7 bits) with start and stop bits. In PC parlance: 6E1. The transmission speed is 134.5 bps. Most baud rate generators actually have this speed. The tricky part of this is that the 2741 communicates in HALF duplex. It has character codes that turn the line around. On the terminal proper the <return> key and the <attn> key. If you actually have a 2741, it might have manuals in its back which describe some of this stuff (cryptically as I remember it). If you want to release the typing mechanism, you can QUICKLY cycle the power and it will release. The difference between the codes is only the position on the ball and the encoding of the keyboard. If you feel up to it, you can use the other type of ball on the foreign machine. You need to send it the right codes. The keyboard can't be changed, so if you have the wrong code, it types "wrong". Why two codes? History. Correspondance code was what they used when they coded the original typeball on the selectrics (before they were used for computer I/O). They made the ball that way to minimize thavel for frequently used codes and to not have pairs of large letters (like M and W) next to each other. The BCD codes were used when they adapted the units to computer use. IBM changed the keyboard coding on the BCD units (there is some documentation on bitsavers) to correspond (bad word in this context) to what they changed the typeball to. Simple facts: The typeball has 88 positions. Two shifts, 44 in each shift. There are 4 tilt positions and 11 rotate positions (neutral and 5 each way left and right). At least that is the way on Selectric 1's and 2's. Selectric 3's have 96 positions. Inside the typing unit, it takes 6 bits to make something happen: Tilt-1, Tilt-2, Rotate-1, Rotate-2, Rotate-2A, and Rotate-5(minus). The 2741 has codes (that don't type) much like an old 5-level teletype to do shifts (upper case/lower case) and space. backspace, index (we call it line feed) and return (CR and LF combined). Just so you know: There is a symbol B134 in /usr/include/bits/termios.h on the Linux box I'm typing this on. The speed is actually 134.5 bps. See the man pages Another wierd fact: Normal baud rate generators (and uarts) use a 16x clock. For 134.5 bps this is 2152 cps. This is very close to a modem tone used in 103 type modem (2025Hz and 2225Hz). It can really screw up accoustic couplers (I found out the "hard way"!). Wierd fact: When IBM contracted with Qume for the units in wheelwriters, they used correspondance code on their printwheels. Qume had an awful time since some of the tines on the wheel had adjacent "high density" codes. Wierdness compounded. We now return you to the regularly scheduled mailing list for even more trivia... -- Tom Watson tsw at johana.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

1
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looking for HP 3000 37 CPU

by g-wright＠att.net

Hi All I have a broken HP 3000-37 and need a CPU board or ???? Anyone have spares laying around. This is the small foot- print model. Looks like a HP 3xx desk top 680xx box. Thanks, Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net

19 years, 8 months

1
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updates to the Floodgap KIM-1 site

by spectre＠floodgap.com

The reworked Floodgap KIM-1 site, including a new version of the KIMplement KIM-1 emulator for the Commodore 64, is now available. The new site includes a "FAQ"-style introduction to the KIM-1 with an overview of options, software, hardware and emulation, along with a large link list to document archives, software archives, hardware vendors and collector's sites. In addition, the redesign also introduces version 0.2 of the KIMplement, a true partial emulation of the KIM-1 running on the Commodore 64 (and no, this is not a joke). KIMplement 0.2 supports: - fully virtualized NMOS 6502 emulation with virtualized ROM and RAM access and all documented instructions (no undocumented instructions on purpose) - LED, keypad and SST emulation through partial RIOT emulation - TTY emulation (using a simulated TTY modeled on the ASR-33) through partial RIOT emulation - KIM-4 emulation (16K addressable using emulated 4K and 8K cards) - Load/save RAM to disk - Built-in Revision E ROMs This new version adds an extra 8K above $2000, fixes bugs with saving memory to disk, improves emulation speed by overall ~25%, fixes glitches with the TTY and makes the simulation more consistent, adds a disk wedge, adds the ability to load binaries without starting addresses, and is precrunched to half the size. This is now compatible enough and offers enough RAM to run Tiny BASIC -- see the screen shots. It's slow, yes, but it works! Other sample programs from The First Book of KIM are also offered. KIMplement will run on any modern Commodore 64 emulator, as well as any real Commodore 64 or 128, of course. Please let me know your comments and suggestions. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/kim-1/ -- --------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever. -- Napoleon Bonaparte ---------

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Computer Music

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

I am currently working on a project involving music made with computers before MIDI. Some aspects and examples might be the old mainframes playing tunes on band printers, minicomputers making tunes with RFI, microcomputers controlling analog synthesizers, and so forth. I have no strict timeline on this, but I would like to pull things together in a few months maximum. Things I am looking for: 1) Recordings of 2nd generation (or even before, if they exist) mainframes making tunes. There are a few recordings out there, and I may be getting some help from CHM for more. 2) A working 1970s era minicomputer with core, probably a PDP-8 or Nova, that is reliable enough to make a performance. 3) A 1970s era microcomputer controlling an analog synthesizer. 4) Outstanding examples of Atari and/or C64s making music. 5) Leads to artists and musicians that used classic computers in recordings, famous or not. Decent quality MP3s would be great. 6) An example of the HP printer (a deskjet?) that contains the musical Easter Egg, operational. 7) Any examples of music made by computer algorithms, remixes by computer, and so forth. Experimental works are welcome. 8) Any suggestions to expand this. The computers need not be classics, the music need not be oddball, but the results should be a little on the weird side (for example, I do not need a Pentium 3 running Protools making trance). While I am not looking to buy any of these machines, I am looking for examples that are very reliable, and can travel to New Jersey for a Saturday morning (probably). Appearance is not important, being this will all take place in a studio. There is a very slim chance I can provide the minicomputer, but all my tapes are lost in limbo, so I doubt it. Being a PDP-8/S, normal PDP-8 music tapes will not work. There is also a chance I can provide a Minimoog synthesizer, if someone can provide the microcomputer with D/A cards (for the control voltages) and some sort of software for making a tune. So please go and think about this, and tell me what you think, and if you can contribute. Certainly proper credit will be given to those that can help out, but sorry, no money. I am not getting paid for this either. Thank you for your time. -- Will

19 years, 8 months

9
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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk > wrote: **>> snip <<** > > The whole 'emissions at point of manufacture and > disposal' does get > conveniently forgotten by the majority of people, > though. I think there's > what, nine years of landfill left in the UK - afte r > which existing sites will > be full and the law prohibits opening of any new > ones. Yet there's virtually > nobody either trying to reuse the technology that we > already have or making > new technology that's long-lived and easily > repairable. > > cheers > > J. > Is that true? (about the landfills) I'm sure the government have already thought of ways around that. The 2 I can think of right now are: 1) Amend the law 2) Export our rubbish and pay for it to be landfilled in Europe! Certainly where I work we do alot more recycling now. We always used to recycle paper (or atleast, they have in the 8 years I have been with them), but we also recycle glass and cardboard (we get lots of stuff in boxes in every week). I'm not entirely sure how you could recycle a car, per se. Obviously some of the internal stuff can be taken out and reused, but aren't cars made of different metals or are they (each model) all made from the same metal? (I'm not really knowledgeable about cars) Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

2
1
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Claude Shannon's "spooky hand in a box" toy

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

It being the frivolous season, a memory came to mind of Claude Shannon's "spooky hand in a box" toy, or which apparently was sometimes called the "Ultimate Machine". For those not already guffawing in an "I remember that" moment, here's a description pilfered while I was searching the web: Arthur C. Clarke in 'Voice Across the Sea': "Nothing could be simpler. It is merely a small wooden casket, the size and shape of a cigar box, with a single switch on one face. When you throw the switch, there is an angry, purposeful buzzing. The lid slowly rises, and from beneath it emerges a hand. The hand reaches down, turns the switch off and retreats into the box. With the finality of a closing coffin, the lid snaps shut, the buzzing ceases and peace reigns once more. The psychological effect, if you do not know what to expect, is devastating. There is something unspeakably sinister about a machine that does nothing -- absolutely nothing -- except switch itself off." (The one I remember was a plain black cube, not a coffin.) It was a popular gimmick-toy / party-amusement in the sixties (I think I saw it at Xmas/New Years time), but I haven't seen, heard or remembered it for decades. I'm just curious whether they are still being made or are they all gone, except perchance to find one at a garage sale (ebay?)? Is this recognisable to anyone younger than ~35, or is it a forgotten amusement from the past? What does this have to with computing? As stated it was devised by Claude Shannon, in discussion with Marvin Minsky, and that should be enough, but I'd also guess that it came out of thinking about things like the halting problem, minimal machines, etc. (a machine that does nothing but halt itself...). (Every computing museum should have an original one.)

19 years, 8 months

5
5
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OT amends

by jbdigriz＠dragonsweb.org

I wish to apologize to the list for making potentially rancorous OT references to religion and politics. They were over-general to begin with, as I had in mind certain local land barons, robber barons, and pave-the-planet suburban sprawl "developers" and franchise operators who are anticipating their moment in the sun here locally, cashing in on a Monopoly (and monopoly) end-game to the general detriment, to real economic development in particular. Notwithstanding this, and notwithstanding my opinion that the Religious Right is neither, this ain't the place for it. As for Mr. Florida, I wonder if he's ever read "The Yankee vs. Cowboy War"? "W" as Hegelian synthesis? Off-list if you want to pursue this, though. Ob-cc: Wanted, recommendations on affordable, decent-quality steel storage buildings, in the 2000-10000 sq. ft. range. Plus shelving, workbench systems, etc. First responder please change subject heading. Thanks. jbdigriz

19 years, 8 months

18
30
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ebay seller computermkt

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:06:29 -0700 >From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> >In article <45916C11.95F67729 at rain.org>, > Marvin Johnston <marvin at rain.org> writes: > >> [...] My guess (now) >> is that computermkt has a pretty good handle on what an item *can* >>bring, and >> prices his stuff accordingly. [...] > >I don't see how an Atari 800 is going to bring $300 when they sell >routinely on ebay for $30. (or whatever, insert actual price here.) > >He knows this because he'll *buy* the item from ebay for $30 and then >turn it around and list it at $300. > >It looks like the majority of his stuff expires unsold and the stuff >that is selling is best offer below his ask. > >He must have really cheap storage space, a ready supply of old boxes >and lots of free time on his hands for this model to work effectivley. This is a bit off-topic for the thread, but deals with the same philosophy of selling question. Sager had 128 pin 13 X 13 PGA sockets for $3 each a few years ago. They have over 2500 of them in stock. I didn't buy any because I was not about to start the project I have in mind for them. Now they are priced at over $17 each. They still have over 2500 of them in stock. As far as I can tell, they aren't selling any of them, but they have upped the price by almost a factor of 6. How does this business practice make sense? Can they take a larger tax write-off when/if they dispose of them, if they list them at a high price for a while? Surely any tax benefit is based on their cost? Do they think a large corporate customer or the military will suddenly find a desperate need for 68030 sockets? The 128 pin socket fits the 68030 processor. I'm minded to re-design the Daystar adapter for the Macintosh IIcx to physically fit in the SE/30. But I would need a hundred or two of the PGA sockets to make it a viable project. At $3 each it was doable. At $17 each the cost of sockets would be more than what most folks would want to pay (I think) for the finished product. Jeff Walther

19 years, 8 months

3
2
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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: At which point I have a device assembled with lead-free solder, soldered at too low a temperature, so it gets dry joints within a few months. With plastic mechanical parts made from the cheapest plastic imaginable that make a freebie toy look solid. I'd be lucky if that $89 machine lasted for a couple of weeks after the warrenty period... Now guess which I am going to do... -tony --------------------------------------- Oh so cynical for such a young man! I work with lead free solder every day. And WD builds tens of millions of drives with it every quarter. All without "dry joints within a few months". So why do you assume that good engineers wouldn't change the temperature of the soldering machines? Processes change constantly. And every major producer of PCBs has had more than 5 years to move to lead free environment. That was not a difficult change for competent manufacturing engineers to make. Yet, I think this is the third or fourth time you've brought this up. You must have had a bad experience someplace and are judging the technology by that experience. I know a lot of hobbyists, as well as lab technicians, were annoyed at having to buy new soldering equipment for higher temperature boards. But the world has moved on. Lead free soldering is as good and in many cases better than lead based soldering. On the data from more than 100 million lead free PCBs, I can attest dry solder joints are not a problem. As for the cheapest plastic imaginable, I just don't see that in the marketplace. My current assignment is working with DVRs, STBs and TVs using disk drives. So I always have a couple of dozen units torn down on my bench. What I see are vendors that have had 20+ years to refine their design, their processes and their materials. I see components and systems that have an order (or orders) of magnitude better reliability than the products of 20 years ago. This "everything old is good, everything new is crap" is not verified by the data from the industry world wide. Some things do improve with time. Especially in a cut throat competitive industry where warranty costs from poor products will put you out of business in weeks. Customers (and in the US, laws) demand reliable products. Companies don't survive if they make consumer products that wear out in "a year and day". (Anybody here remember that poem?) Tony, you have your preferences and choices and more power to you. But if you did a study of current state of the art electronics, you would find it to be far superior to that of 20 years ago. Even if it won't provide a maintenance manual. Billy

19 years, 8 months

20
42
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The *meow* auction we've all been waiting for *meow*

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

WHAT THE MAC MIGHT HAVE BEEN reads the caption. I haven't spent much time with muh Cat (that Cat anyway ;), so I can't rightly say whether it featured any enhancements over the old skool Macs. Certainly not in drive capacity. I thoroughly welcome comments though. http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-Cat-Computer-What-the-Mac-Might-Have-Been_W0QQite… these things are seemingly pretty rare though. It boggles me when I think that IIRC 20,000 or so were made. Who would have the heart to throw one out! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

7
19
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an ADM-3A cam in tod...ay

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

Assuming you don't disassemble the unit so that you can clean the non-electronic parts more thoroughly; When you let the unit dry, try to tilt it almost upside-down so that the evaporating water passes over the non-electronic under surface of the keyboard enclosure. Bill Degnan > > I will use my normal cleaning procedure of toothbrush and tapwater, and letting things dry naturally. > Anyone have suggestions for the specific case of semi-dried Coke ? > > Jos DReesen

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Hazeltine 1510 docs?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I have a Hazeltine 1510 which needs some TLC with a soldering iron, but I lack schematics...does anyone have schematics for this terminal? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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IBM 3270 Data Stream Programmer's Reference

by ptykodi＠tykodi.com

Hi Richard, IBM offers this manual for free in BookManager electronic format. The URL is as follows: http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?PAG=C11&SSN=06 L0Q0001567125565&TRL=TXT&WRD=&PBL=GA23-0059-07&LST=ALL&RPP=10&BTN%3DSRH.x=10 &BTN%3DSRH.y=13 HTH Best Regards, /Paul -- Paul Tykodi Principal Consultant TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:22:48 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: IBM 3270 Data Stream Programmer's Reference > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <E1GzKh6-00062o-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > Does anyone have one of these they could scan? > --

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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3270 SPM

by kossow＠computerhistory.org

The document part number is GA23-0059 I probably have at least one rev of this, will see if I can find it, though I see rev -07 is still in print. http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=pub1ga23005907

19 years, 8 months

3
2
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S/36 is back on ebay...

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

It looks like the IBM 5360 in Kansas is back on ebay (the seller says that the buyer didn't pick it up; probably didn't realize the size of these things...) http://search.ebay.com/130059850446 If I had room for it, I'd probably be tempted to go and get it. BTW, does anyone know what happened to the 1130 in Indianapolis? Did the machine get moved out ok? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

19 years, 8 months

10
18
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Need help with a 68K Mac board

by teoz＠neo.rr.com

I just received a Micronet Raven ProPDS card (2 NCR UWSCSI chips on an 040 PDS card for Quadra era Macs) and can't get it to work. This card was supposed to be the fastest SCSI you could get on a 68K Mac: "The new Raven Pros offer access times as low as four milliseconds (ms), and sustained writes of up to 17.2 megabytes-per-second (MBps), according to Taradalsky. MicroNet will deliver the disk arrays in two separate products: RavenProBus, a NuBus board for Quadra, Centris, or Power Macs equipped with a full-length NuBus slot; and Raven ProPDS, (Processor Direct Slot) a card for Quadra or Centris PCs with an 040PDS." Anybody ever use one of these? The card without a HD seems to hang the system when booting into OS 7.6.1 on both a Quadra 950 and a Quadra 800. The card used to be made by Storage Dimensions, MacinStor line (before it was sold to Micronet in 1994) and called either the Data Canon 040 PDS or the Digital Video SpeedArray. There seems to be 3 jumpers on the card that I have no clue about. Thanks for any help. TZ

19 years, 8 months

2
1
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===== IBM system 34 SSP command ===

by ptykodi＠tykodi.com

Hi Fred, I subscribe to a mailing list called midrange-l hosted at midrange.com. It is monitored by people who most likely would know the answer to your question so I forwarded your question to the list. Here is the information, which was returned. I hope it helps with your project. date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:00:09 -0500 from: "Douglas Handy" subject: Re: FW: IBM system 34 SSP command Paul/Fred, > After typing these commands, I was expecting > > something should appear on the CRT but nothing > > arrived, neither a list of files, nor an error > > message, even if I had to wait few seconds before > > the computer returns me the hand... In case it wasn't clear from Mark's response, under SSP by default Output from certain utilities including $LABEL goes to a printer (typically spooled). At any time in a session you can issue SYSLIST CRT to cause future output to redirect back to your terminal, or SYSLIST PRINTER to revert back to printed output. Using SYSLIST CRT is somewhat like piping DOS output to the MORE command. You get a screenful of information then it pauses for you to pres Enter, then you get another screenful of data. You cannot scroll the data. Unlike MORE, the pipe isn't done on a per command basis; using SYSLIST remains in effect until you change it again (or sign off). If you don't want each line of data to be truncated after 75 characters, use SYSLIST CRT,FOLD instead. > I don't really understand what they mean by the verb > > DISPLAY in the OCL statement guide. Does it mean > > DISPLAY on the CRT ? DISPLAY on the PRINTER ? > DISPLAY > > in a file ?... grrrr.... DISPLAY is not a valid OCL statement. DISPLAY is the name of one of the DFU procedures, to view a file in read-only mode. Other DFU procedures included ENTER or UPDATE or LIST. DISPLAY is similar to the LISTDATA command in i5/OS. Doug Best Regards, /Paul -- Paul Tykodi Principal Consultant TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC > Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:21:52 +0100 > From: "Frederic BOSSU" <F5INL at wanadoo.fr> > Subject: ===== IBM system 34 SSP command === > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Hi, > > Does anyone know a way of listing the files of a > diskette or a disk > drive of a System 34 ? I tried the following SSP > commands (normally used > on S/36 computer), but it doesn't seem to work ... > > //LOAD $LABEL > //RUN > //DISPLAY LABEL-ALL,UNIT-F1 > //END > > After typing these commands, I was expecting something > should appear on > the CRT but nothing arrived, neither a list of files, > nor an error > message, even if I had to wait few seconds before the > computer returns me > the hand... > > I don't really understand what they mean by the verb > DISPLAY in the OCL > statement guide. Does it mean DISPLAY on the CRT ? > DISPLAY on the > PRINTER ? DISPLAY in a file ?... grrrr.... > > Merry X-mas to all, and thank you for your help. > Fred. >

19 years, 8 months

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Gridlite 1040 Laptop on ePay

by cclist＠sydex.com

Item 320065412704 --Chuck

19 years, 8 months

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Weird disk drive

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I've got the weirdest disk drive ever. It's a standard 5.25" mounted inside a factory made metal enclosure. It has a fixed power cord coming out the back with a power switch. Inside is a simple power supply (transformer and a couple regulators and capacitors) that puts out +5V and +12V. There's a power connector going into the disk drive power socket. Here's the weird part: there is no data cable. There is no port or connector or anything on the enclosure for a data cable. There's not even a cut-out for a data cable. It's basically just a disk drive that powers up and spins if you put a disk in it. I initially thoughtt that it must be a degausser or something, but there's nothing inside that would indicate any such operation. OK, I admit it. I'm stumped. No markings on the enclosure anywhere. Any ideas? Responses copied to me directly would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'll follow any follw-up thread in the archives. Happy Holidays!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

19 years, 8 months

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88-ACR KCS modification

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: 88-ACR KCS modification > From: Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> > Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 14:00:27 -0900 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >I'm trying to modify my 88-ACR to work with the KCS specification. > >Does anyone know where the information on modifying the 88-ACR to >read/wrote KCS audio is? > >Also, I was wondering if anyone ever looked at this card? The XR210 chip >MITS used for demodulation of the FSK signal is capable of MODULATING >too. (with both mark and space frequencies). Does anyone know why they >would have used 5 ICs and a few opamps to do the modulation when they could >have used the other half of a chip already present? > >Grant Not possible. The ACR is simple FSK and the KCS is redundent FM. As to the latter question of component use... the ACR was intended as a modem (bell 103) and it's design was based on that. Allison

19 years, 8 months

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ebay seller computermkt

by marvin＠rain.org

One selling philosophy is that it is a lot less work to sell an item for $10.00 than 10 items for $1.00 each, or "make your money on each item" vs "make your money on volume." If someone is trying (or needs) to make money, it makes absolutely zero sense to price items *hoping* for the right bidders to come along and bid the price up. Take a look at the final bids on any item, and try to guess what the person who won it was actually willing to pay. Unless you talk to the person, you will have no idea how high the winning bidder was actually willing to go. My guess (now) is that computermkt has a pretty good handle on what an item *can* bring, and prices his stuff accordingly. There is also little doubt that unless he is buying things for his collection (assuming he is a collector), it costs nothing to put in a low bid on something and he will only win if he gets it at his bid price. I saw something simliar at an early VCF (Pleasanton?) where someone brought in some interesting machines, and priced them (in my mind) rather high. Just goes to show what I know since most of them sold! > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > > He buys vintage computer items on ebay for a lowball price and then > marks it up sky high. Is he spotting "undervalued items" or is he > just pricing them with "wishful thinking"?

19 years, 8 months

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IBM 2741 -- ASCII or EBCDIC?

by legalize＠xmission.com

The subject pretty much says it all... which character code did the 2741 typewriter/terminal use? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

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IBM 3270 Data Stream Programmer's Reference

by legalize＠xmission.com

Does anyone have one of these they could scan? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

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ebay seller computermkt

by legalize＠xmission.com

I just noticed another trend with this seller... He buys vintage computer items on ebay for a lowball price and then marks it up sky high. Is he spotting "undervalued items" or is he just pricing them with "wishful thinking"? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

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Jumper settings for ClearPoint DCME Q2B 2Mb QBUS Memory ?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Does anyone know the jumper settings for the ClearPoint DCME Q2B memory? I have one that needs the base address changed, and I'm not looking forward to working out the jumpers by trial and error :-) Bitsavers has data for the Q22B, but unfortunately an older board that's quite a bit different. Thanks, Bob Armstrong

19 years, 8 months

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multiple CGA cards on ISA bus?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Hi, Does anyone know if its possible to have multiple CGA cards on an ISA bus? I have a feeling the answer is no... If the answer is no, can anyone recommend a good set of docs on the bus interface of a CGA (memory mapped regions, relevant BIOS vectors, ISA bus transactions, etc.)? I have a project where I want to gang drive a group of CGA displays. Initially my thoughts were to just have N computers with CGA cards and gang drive the computers over a serial port. However, lately the talk of hardware on this list has got me thinking that it might be better to create a single FPGA implementation that gang drove N cards directly and dropped the machines in the middle. I'm thinking that on standard ISA bus only a single CGA card could be present because its vectors and memory map are fixed and not relocatable. So I'd need to gang up the cards by creating my own motherboard with ISA card edge connectors where each card thinks it is the only thing on the bus and then select individual cards and drive them with the FPGA. Things that would help me in this project are: - detailed information about the CGA video card, both electrically and software wise. - detailed electrical information about ISA bus cycles - existing FPGA designs that might have useful building blocks I could steal: ISA bus cycles, CGA implementation, etc. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

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This just MADE my day

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I guess you should hold off on buying his PDP8 stuff Between what Eric Smith, CHM and others have I don't think I need any of his PDP-8 stuff. The Royotron stuff is much more rare since the punch is used in DEC reader/punches but the info in them isn't in the DEC service docs. I normally don't say anything about getting stuff run up on me, but paying $150+ to have the seller turn around and try selling scans for $10 was depressing (only good thing is he claims 200dpi, which won't be all that great).

19 years, 8 months

5
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DEC Paper Tape Diags

by useddec＠gmail.com

I just found a box of about 10 DEC paper tape trays each having about 8 > diag tapes in it. The few I glanced were PDP11, but there could be a few PDP8 tapes in there. All are in excellent condiction. If you have any interest, please feel free to contact me off list. Thanks, Paul

19 years, 8 months

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Merry Christmas!

by rdd＠rddavis.org

Quothe "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>, from writings of Mon, Dec 25, 2006 at 12:00:32PM -0600: > I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas today! Thanks! A very Merry Christmas, Newtonsday and Winter Solstice/Yule/Midwinter to you and everyone else on this list! Hopefully everyone on this list got something hackish today and no one here got a stocking full of switches (by that I'm not referring to those of the electical variety! ...a stocking full of those would always be useful). Robert -- R. D. Davis 410-744-4900 Beware & halt the National Animal ID System (NAIS)! www.rddavis.org http://nonais.org http://www.libertyark.org www.danglingspiders.com http://www.rddavis.org/equitation/freedom-vs-id.html Dangling Spiders Electronic Music Studio http://www.stopanimalid.org

19 years, 8 months

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This just MADE my day

by aek＠bitsavers.org

120066849881 US $41.00 Roytron 500 Series Preventative Maintenance Manual 120066855236 US $61.00 Roytron Punch/Reader Basic Mechanism Manual al_kossow (*) 120066858797 US $21.50 OEM Roytron Punch/Reader Part List Manual, Original 120066861636 US $22.50 OEM Roytron Punch/Reader Electronics Manual, 1966 or just wait 12 hours http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120068155568 and get the scans for $10 ---- THANK YOU VERY MUCH, members of the collecting "community" I should just run the paper into the shredder.

19 years, 8 months

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88-ACR KCS modification

by grant＠stockly.com

I'm trying to modify my 88-ACR to work with the KCS specification. Does anyone know where the information on modifying the 88-ACR to read/wrote KCS audio is? Also, I was wondering if anyone ever looked at this card? The XR210 chip MITS used for demodulation of the FSK signal is capable of MODULATING too. (with both mark and space frequencies). Does anyone know why they would have used 5 ICs and a few opamps to do the modulation when they could have used the other half of a chip already present? Grant

19 years, 8 months

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===== IBM system 34 SSP command ===

by F5INL＠wanadoo.fr

Hi, Does anyone know a way of listing the files of a diskette or a disk drive of a System 34 ? I tried the following SSP commands (normally used on S/36 computer), but it doesn't seem to work ... //LOAD $LABEL //RUN //DISPLAY LABEL-ALL,UNIT-F1 //END After typing these commands, I was expecting something should appear on the CRT but nothing arrived, neither a list of files, nor an error message, even if I had to wait few seconds before the computer returns me the hand... I don't really understand what they mean by the verb DISPLAY in the OCL statement guide. Does it mean DISPLAY on the CRT ? DISPLAY on the PRINTER ? DISPLAY in a file ?... grrrr.... Merry X-mas to all, and thank you for your help. Fred.

19 years, 8 months

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Merry Christmas!

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

19 years, 8 months

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Looking for HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor Driver disk/files

by maurice.smulders＠gmail.com

Hello, I'm looking for the HP 10342B files to use it on a HP 1652B Analyzer. I did find the documentation online - thanks to bitsavers.org - but am still looking for the software. Is there a place I could obtain the files required? Kind regards, Maurice

19 years, 8 months

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Cylinders versus tracks...

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Out of interest, which is the correct terminology when defining a single point on a disk's surface - is it better to talk in terms of cylinders, or tracks? People often seem to talk about floppy drives in terms of tracks, heads and sectors (e.g. for an 80 cylinder floppy with two sides they'll still talk in terms of tracks 1-80 in conjunction with a side number, even though the media has 160 tracks in total) Talking in terms of cylinders seems to be generally the norm with hard disks though, and perhaps seems a bit more sensible - but remember that hard disk manufacturers are the people who introduced decimal megabytes into common use :-) Personally I prefer to talk in terms of 'surface number' rather than 'head number', as a given surface could conceivably have more than one head in order to improve media latency - but I'm unsure as to whether to use cylinder/surface/sector or track/surface/sector. It's all just semantics, but for the stuff I'm currently working on I'd rather go with the 'correct' version even if that happens not to be the one most commonly used... cheers Jules

19 years, 8 months

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===== IBM system 34 SSP command ===+

by n8uhn＠yahoo.com

Oh Man, it's been years but, check out the "listlibr" (list library) command. i think it works with floppys but it may be a hard drive command. something like //listlibr dir the dir switch need to be in there somewhere. also i think display is the ocl command for display. the listlibr command uses a switch for the crt or printer too. keep in mind that the crt only displays so many columns you'll have to send the output to the line printer or a printer on the twinax to view the entire line. Bill Message: 30 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:21:52 +0100 From: "Frederic BOSSU" <F5INL at wanadoo.fr> Subject: ===== IBM system 34 SSP command === To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Hi, Does anyone know a way of listing the files of a diskette or a disk drive of a System 34 ? I tried the following SSP commands (normally used on S/36 computer), but it doesn't seem to work ... //LOAD $LABEL //RUN //DISPLAY LABEL-ALL,UNIT-F1 //END After typing these commands, I was expecting something should appear on the CRT but nothing arrived, neither a list of files, nor an error message, even if I had to wait few seconds before the computer returns me the hand... I don't really understand what they mean by the verb DISPLAY in the OCL statement guide. Does it mean DISPLAY on the CRT ? DISPLAY on the PRINTER ? DISPLAY in a file ?... grrrr.... Merry X-mas to all, and thank you for your help. Fred. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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RSS for new bitsavers files?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Is there an RSS feed that tracks the index by date or something? It would be nice to see what's new as RSS items. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

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FREE Plotter - Last Chance!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

This is being sent to the CCTech, Tektronix, HP, and Test gear mailing list. I have available, for PICKUP ONLY in Kent, Washington (about 30 miles southeast of Seattle), a nice HP DraftMaster pen plotter, a couple of packs of paper (sizes C and D), and a boxful of pens. This needs to be MOVED! I need the space far more than I need a plotter. If no one claims it, I will have to dispose of it as best I can, even if this means tearing it apart and recycling its guts. I know that sounds harsh, but I've seriously reached the point to where this unit has to go. Please get back to me by E-mail ASAP. If E-mail should bounce, please call me on (253) 639-2996. This is the LAST time I'll be offering this. I need to hear from whoever wants it in the next day or so, or it's gone. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

19 years, 8 months

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help ID this ISA card

by alexeyt＠freeshell.org

I have a 16-bit ISA card labelled "Arnet 30500404 Copyright 1993 Arnet Corp. Made in USA". It has 2 HD-15 female connectors labelled Line1 and Line2, a bunch of discrete logic, 6 PALs and a Hitachi HD64570CP 2-port Serial Communications Adapter chip. A google search tells me only that it might have been an S/570 adapter, but I have no idea what S/570 was (the most common hit seems to be for a scanning electron microscope?) and if I can trust the one parts dealer that seems to have one to know what it actually is :-) Anyone know what this board does? Anyone want it? Alexey

19 years, 8 months

1
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Computer Music

by grant＠stockly.com

>3) A 1970s era microcomputer controlling an analog synthesizer. I have source code and custom interface cards from ARP's project to create the first consumer computer controlled synth. The prototype was built out of an Altair 8800. Never finished, never released. It was a top secret project within the company I will try to scan the entire binder and recover all of the source code off of the 8" disks if it will help your project. Currently I think I am the only person who still has a copy of this information. I got it by accident when I bought ARP's Altair. ;) The binder has been sitting between the two front seats of my car since September. I'll have a good excuse to scan it on the 26th. ; ) This information has been left out of the history books! I'll include a few routines below... NOTE, I tried to recover the assembler written in "Altair Basic", but it is corrupted on the disk. The assembler program appears to have been written in Altair Basic with line numbers and then assembled by a special program. I would appreciate ANY information on this basic assembler! The person who wrote the routines below wrote a thesis at MIT in 1971 about the possibility of a computer-controlled synth. He was using a PDP-15 at the time. I can provide more information, but a good quote about the Altair 8800 Synth "One of my more impressive demos was doing four-part harmony using a woodwind ensemble (flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon or French horn). Using the pro-soloists on the four-channel Bose system in the small lab sounded very grand. In fact, the lab was under tight security and not ever the VP of marketing was allowed in, though he tried. (We wanted them to sell what they had now, not get musicians waiting for things to come.) " Grant 0000 org 03fdh 0010 jmp presc 0100 org 0040h 0110 ************************************************************** 0120 * 0130 * Module PRESC 0140 * 0150 * Written by Bruce Cichowlas 8/25/76 0160 * Copyright Circle C - ARP Instruments 9/15/76 0170 * 0180 * PRESC - checks the preset panel and sets the previous 0190 * preset reading (prvpr), as well as the preset request 0200 * word (prerq). This routine should be invoked frequently, 0210 * as it actually does the preset panel scanning. 0220 * 0230 * No arguments 0240 * 0250 ************************************************************** 1000 presc equ $ 1010 push b 1020 lda ppadr ;preset panel addr 1030 ora a ;set flags 1040 jz pres1 ;none set 1050 mov b,a 1060 lda prvpr ;load previous reading 1070 ora b 1080 sta prvpr 1090 pres2 pop b 1100 ret 1110 pres1 lda prvpr ;find out if any were set previously 1120 ora a 1130 jz pres2 ;none before 1140 mov b,a 1150 lda prerq 1160 ora b ;include bits set in b 1170 sta prerq 1180 xra 1190 sta prvpr ;store 0 for the previous reading 1200 pop b 1210 ret 5000 ppadr equ 1800h 6000 *RAM 6001 prvpr equ 08ffh 6002 prerq equ 08feh 0000 org 03e8h 0001 jmp rdsld 0002 jmp clman 0003 jmp nmmsk 0004 jmp msknm 0005 jmp swpnl 0006 jmp clsw 0100 org 009bh 0110 ****************************************************************** 0120 * 0130 * Written by Bruce Cichowlas 9/3/76 0140 * Copyright Circle C - ARP Instruments 9/16/76 0150 * 0160 * CLSW - clears all switches. No arguments. 0170 * SWPNL - sets the switches from the scratchpad. Just 0190 * one byte of them for now. No arguments. 0200 * 0210 * MSKNM - Converts a one bit mask to a number from zero 0220 * to seven indicating bit position, e.g. 01h becomes 0, 0230 * 80h becomes seven. Input and output are from the A register. 0240 * 0250 * NMMSK - Performs the inverse operation of MSKNM. 0260 * 0270 * CLMAN - Clears the manual lights for the slidepots. No 0280 * arguments 0290 * 0300 * RDSLD - Reads a slidepot. On input, A contains 0310 * the slidepot number, and on return it contains the 0320 * slidepot's current value. 0330 * 0340 ******************************************************************** 1000 clsw equ $ 1010 sta swclr 1020 ret 1030 swpnl equ $ 1040 push h 1050 push d 1060 lhld prbas ;base of scratchpad 1070 lda slcnt ;slide count 1080 mov e,a 1090 mvi d,0 H 1100 dad d ;calculate address of switch values in the scratchpad 1110 mov a,m ;get word 1120 cma ;since switches use negative logic 1130 sta setsw ;set the switches 1140 pop d 1150 pop h 1160 ret 1170 msknm equ $ 1180 push b 1190 mvi b,7 1200 mskn1 rlc 1210 jc mskn2 1220 dcr b 1230 jnz mskn1 1240 mskn2 mov a,b 1250 pop b 1260 ret 1270 nmmsk equ $ 1280 push b 1290 mov b,a 1300 mvi a,1 1310 inr b 1320 nmms1 dcr b 1330 jz nmms2 1340 rlc 1350 jmp nmms1 1360 nmms2 pop b 1370 ret 1380 clman equ $ 1390 push b 1400 push d 1410 push h 1420 lda slcnt ;slide count 1430 dcr a ;convert to offset 1440 clma1 push m 1450 lhld lgbas ;man/auto light copy base 1460 call wrdbt ;get wrdbt offset 1470 xra a ;for reset 1480 call setwb ; adjust bit 1490 lxi h,lgdev ; light device 1500 mov e,b 1510 mvi d,0 1520 dad d 1530 mov m,a ;store new value 1540 pop m 1550 dcr a 1560 jp clma1 1570 pop h 1580 pop d 1590 pop b 1600 ret 1610 rdsld equ $ 1620 sta mxadr ;slidepot's MUX addr 1630 nop ;wait for MUX to settle 1640 nop 1650 sta strtc ;start conversion 1660 mvi a,6 1670 rdsl1 dcr a ;delay 1680 jnz rdsl1 1690 lda adout ;get a/d value 1700 ret 7000 *ROM parameter table 7001 prbas equ 0400h ;base of scratchpad 7002 slcnt equ 0402h ;slide pot count 7003 lgbas equ 0403h ;man/auto light copy base 8000 *Device addresses 8001 swclr equ 3003h ;store to this location clears the switch settings 8002 setsw equ 3004h ;store to this setting stores the complement of the 8003 * ;input into the switches 8004 mx88adr equ 3000h ;store to here sets the MUX slidepot address 8005 strtc equ 3002h ;store to here starts the conversion 8006 adout equ 3000h ;this is where the a/d output is put 8007 lgdev equ 3001h ;store to here sets the man/auto lights 9000 *Subroutine 9001 wrdbt equ 03e5h 9002 setwb equ 03e2h equ bins 6060 * 8000 swtch equ 01800h 9000 sortn equ 03f4h 9010 bncnt equ 03e

19 years, 8 months

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Update, Free Plotter Model number

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

I was reminded that it would be a good idea to mention that the HP model number of the plotter is 7595C. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

19 years, 8 months

1
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Someone selling off dec disk packs before system

by jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu

A seller on ebay is selling of the media while he / she claims to be in possession of the system as well, I assume for those who admire "disk packs" or such. Anyone interested might want to look in on the RK05 listed, and the 5 platter disk pack listed. seller: wvrunner rk05 auction number:220063749828 look under "view sellers other auctions" for the other pack, and maybe keep an eye on this guy. Merry Christmas to all Jim

19 years, 8 months

2
1
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Weird disk drive

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Weird disk drive > From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 05:03:11 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, > sellam at vintagetech.com > >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> It's basically just a disk drive that powers up and spins if you put a >> disk in it. > >OK, questions: > >1) Any sign of any additional drive boards within the case or anything that >might be ROM on the drive PCBs themselves? > >2) Does the disk keep spinning forever when you put it in, or just do a few >revolutions and stop? > >3) When you put a disk in, do the heads step at all? Or does it just sit on >track 0 all the time? > > >And some initial guesses: > >1) Homebrew case which someone just never got around to finishing and adding a >data connector to. > >2) Commercial prototype for testing various aspects (PSU heat dissipation, >drive mounting, power socket mounting, case paint etc.) > >3) Tester for a *floppy disk* manufacturer (i.e. does my product foul a stock >drive mechanism, does it fall apart in the heat of a typical enclosure etc.) > >4) Degausser (as you say) or other form of disk eraser > >5) TV / movie prop > >I'm quite liking the first and last ones - although the last one's probably >only credible if the disk keeps spinning forever when you put it in. > >Some form of eraser might be possible if the thing's just wired to write junk; >even if the heads don't move I suppose someone could have built a "poor man's >eraser" which just trashes track 0 :-) > >Commercial 'pre-production' type products (2 and 3 above) do seem less likely >- not because they wouldn't have existed, but because I'm surprised someone >would bother to save them and/or they wouldn't have had a data connector added >later to make a fully functioning unit. > >Can you take the route of asking the person you got it from - and if they >weren't the original owner, following the chain back to the person who was? > >cheers > >Jules Or #6: Many of the trs80 external drive boxes (early non-RS product ca1978) would just plug the cable to the drive and pass it out the case through a space or gap. There was no formal external connector. Also the external box for the NS* MDS-A (1978 also) had no external connector though there was a noiceable notch in the rear of the case to pass the 34wide ribbon cable through. I've seen several of thses. Allison

19 years, 8 months

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All I want for Christmas is ...

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

A new mainframe. :) http://computer-refuge.org/compcollect/ibm/s390/mp2003/ Happy holidays to all! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

19 years, 8 months

2
1
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Remex PT board unibus or q-bus?

by richardlynch3＠comcast.net

Does anyone know if the Remex paper tape reader/punch interface board for PDP-11 marked "109831" is unibus or q-bus? Is it generic enough to work in any PDP-11 with that bus? Thanks, Richard Lynch

19 years, 8 months

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Weird disk drive

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

a picture would be nice. Can the enclosure accept 2 drives? If so do they sit vertically? Whats the model # of the drive itself? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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multiple CGA cards on ISA bus?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

its too painful at times :%. But the question comes up what software is intended to run on this amalgamation...off the shelf or custom... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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multiple CGA cards on ISA bus?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

its too painful at times :%. But the question comes up what software is intended to run on this amalgamation...off the shelf or custom... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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multiple cga cards

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

the Peanut used some sort of gate array to make the vid memory appear as it were in cga space to the warez, but was actually deep down low IIRC. If that helps.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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Cylinders versus tracks...

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

> Oh, that's another thing - is there a correct convention for track numbering? > There seem to be equal numbers of apps out there which treat the first track > as track zero as there are which treat it as track one :-) (Personal > preference would be to number from zero, just because it likely makes some > programming calculations easier, but I'm not sure if it's technically wrong to > present that visually to the user...) I'm not sure there is a correct convention. I do know that controller programming can be a bit weird. The old AT-style controllers on PCs seemed to want the cylinders and heads numbered from 0 and the sectors numbered from 1. I don't have any hardware docs with me at the moment, but that's what I've seen in drivers. As an aside, it's fun to try to explain to a class who've only seen sanitized classroom examples that the real world is filled with stuff like this. That's why I like to teach OS with code, and not just general principles. BLS

19 years, 8 months

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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: I can't comment on whether it's possible to make reliable, long-lasting, devices with lead-free solder (although there seem to be exemptions for what I'd call 'critical' applications (military, aerospace, medical, etc) in the UK regulations which allow the use of leaded solder for such devices, so draw you own conclusions). ---------------- I've put a call into a specialist friend who does mil-spec here. Last time I talked to him he said they couldn't use lead based. In fact most of his "hardened" designs had to be laser welded. But I want to verify what US mil-spec calls for currently. ------------------- But I can assure you I've had enough dry joints in modern stuff assembled with lead free solder to last me a lifetime. I've even had brand-new stuff that's had to be resoldered before it will work. And I've met plenty of other repairers (entusiasts and professionals) who have had the same problems. > producer of PCBs has had more than 5 years to move to lead free = > environment. > That was not a difficult change for competent manufacturing engineers to > make. > > Yet, I think this is the third or fourth time you've brought this up. = > You > must have had a bad experience someplace and are judging the technology = Not 'a' bad expeience, but many of them. > by > that experience. I know a lot of hobbyists, as well as lab technicians, = > were > annoyed at having to buy new soldering equipment for higher temperature > boards. I can't see what a hobbyist would have to bother -- at least in the UK, these directives only apply to equipment that's offered for sale. You cna do what yuou like in stuff you build for yourself. ---------------- Like you, many hobbists want to repair or modify equipment they buy. And even more simple users like myself, where I buy PCBs and salvage the parts I want. For example, I found some boards with 10 nanosecond 32Kx8 RAMS that were perfect for a logic analyzer I want to build. A bitch to get off, even though surface mount. Wish they were some of those bad joints you see - these almost had to be cut off. ------------------- > > But the world has moved on. Lead free soldering is as good and in many > cases better than lead based soldering. On the data from more than 100 > million lead free PCBs, I can attest dry solder joints are not a = > problem. > > As for the cheapest plastic imaginable, I just don't see that in the > marketplace. My current assignment is working with DVRs, STBs and TVs = Perhaps your consumer electronic devices are built a lot better than ours. THis all started with a mention of a $89 VCR. Over here that's a '50 quid VCR' and yes, we get them at that sort of price. Now, when I last bought a VCR, some 15 years ago, it cost nearly \pounds 1000 (or 20 times as much). Are you seriously telling me that, even though there's been inflation in that time, a modern 50 quid machine is going to be as well made anf as long lasting. Becasue I simply don't see that. > using > disk drives. So I always have a couple of dozen units torn down on my > bench. What I see are vendors that have had 20+ years to refine their > design, their processes and their materials. I see components and = > systems > that have an order (or orders) of magnitude better reliability than the > products of 20 years ago. I think the big change is that 20 years ago there was good stuff and bad stuff out there. I mentioned I'd paid \pounds 1000 or so for a VCR. There were much cheaper machines around at the time, sure, and they probably have not lasted 15 years. But if you wanted to spend the money you could get one that lasted, that was maintainable (the manufacturers not only produced an excellent servive manual, but they sent it to me free of charge when I asked about it), etc. Now I see \pounds 50 VCRs and \pounds 20 DVD players and nothing else. I'd love to be able to spend more money and get a better machine, but I can't. > > This "everything old is good, everything new is crap" is not verified by = > the > data from the industry world wide. Some things do improve with time. > Especially in a cut throat competitive industry where warranty costs = > from > poor products will put you out of business in weeks. Customers (and in = > the > US, laws) demand reliable products. Companies don't survive if they = Not over here they don't. People upgrade because a new model is available with more features (they they probably will never use). Provided the machine lasts for the warranty period the manufacturer is happy. If it fails after that time he gets to sell another one. ------------------------------------ This is one area I will agree with you. My experience at Philips exposed me to the enormous difference in consumer protection laws in the US versus the rest of the world. Philips management had a terrible time dealing with these differences. For example, if a box is even opened here, the unit automatically becomes "used" and has to be marked as such. (Usually referred to as white labelling.) Customers can return a product without giving any reason. It doesn't have to be a failure. Cosmetic damage consititutes a failure. This includes the packaging. Another huge difference is that refurbished units have to be sold as used, even if they have a new product warranty. (Philip's answer was to sell the reburished units through the employee stores.) This is also true if the unit was refurbished before it ever left the factory. Of course that rule is ignored by everybody. But big accounts like Apple and Dell still insist that no unit can be reworked. They demand only prime yield product. All of these laws were different from the typical consumer protection laws in Europe. There, many manufacturers used a 5% rule. 5% of what they ship is defective. They give the distributors extra units as a margin against returns. Sadly, many of the returns are sold as new. There are no laws in the Common Market to prevent this. Management used to this Euro environment had a terrible time adjusting to the US conditions. Some couldn't even understand the concept of a rebate: if you advertised a rebate, you have to pay it! That lesson cost several European companies tens of millions of dollars and government law suits to learn. One result of these differences is that European companies normally don't normally thrive in the US. The cultural gap in business is too great. When I went to work for Philips, no one I knew here was aware Philips made anything besides light bulbs. It is not a well known brand name here, like Sony and Panasonic. So I can accept that you see a much lower level of quality than is normal here in the US. We still see some crap, but we can do something about it. --------------------------- > Tony, you have your preferences and choices and more power to you. But = > if > you did a study of current state of the art electronics, you would find = > it > to be far superior to that of 20 years ago. Even if it won't provide a > maintenance manual. Sorry, I have looked at modern stuff and found that in many cases the performance and quality of construction is markedly inferior to that which I already own. Perhaps you could explain to me in what ways I am going to find it 'superior'. -tony --------------------- Tony, your heart and mind are in the past. No matter how many facts, figures, statistics I present, I will never convince you that today's world is as good as your golden age when everything was perfect. Why bother? It's just unpleasant for both of us. I've spent 46 years in the electronics industry, always on the cutting edge, and always striving for improvement. I see enormous changes, most for the good. You don't. I value my time too much to waste it on repairing minor appliances. You get great pleasure from that activity. We are never going to agree on what constitutes a good product - you want a maintenance manual and lots of spares; I want no failures and no hassles during a useful life cycle. I think we agree on a love of old computers and the need to keep a few alive. And we may share pleasure in designing and building little systems. But I wonder if you enjoy playing with PICs and FPGAs like I do, since little documention on the innards is available. And I know we disagree strongly on use of the internet, saving old manuals and sending photos, scans, software etc. That requires technology you are not willing to embrace. I have to admit I'm hoping to meet you next year. I'll be retiring then and we are going to spend half our time in Colechester and the other half in California. We are going to explore a lot of England that I still haven't seen. And attend a few science fiction conventions, hit the famous book stores in Wales, check out pub food, sample the local beers and in general do the things we always wanted to do but were too busy. Billy

19 years, 8 months

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1702 EPROM's

by Fixer7526＠wmconnect.com

Hello, Would you please post the following message. I am looking for someone who can copy 1702 EPROM's. Contact me at Fixer7526 at wmconnect.com . Thanks, Alan

19 years, 8 months

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Free: Kennedy Tape drive and rack

by rick＠rickmurphy.net

I've got a Kennedy 9000 9-track tension-arm tape drive (800/1600 bpi dual density) installed in a 5-foot tall rack. The rack has side and back panels as well as some covers for the front. The drive was working a few years ago so it's complete but I have no idea if it's still OK. I've got the documentation including print sets, etc. It's available free for pickup in the Fairfax county Virginia area. We'll need to remove the drive from the rack to get it out of the basement unless you bring some help :-) -Rick

19 years, 8 months

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got an HP 9915A computer

by vax9000＠gmail.com

Haven't decided what to do with it yet. Got a DEC VT240, no monitor, no keyboard. free for shipping. Got a VAXSTATION 3100 model VS42??, there is a crack on the face panel. Looks good other than that crack. No disks. Free for shipping. vax, 9000

19 years, 8 months

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got a rare 386 CPU

by vax9000＠gmail.com

A80386EXI, step B http://wiggum.4amlunch.net/~vax9000/PHOTOS/DSCN6606.JPG

19 years, 8 months

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Build your own Apollo Guidance Computer

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: > Billy Pettit wrote: > > **>> snip <<** > > I have a web page > (http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/gates/index.html) > where I'm accumulating the diversity of symbols th at > have been used for > logic gates. If you have a scan or reference for t he > Cray/6600 symbols I'd be > interested in adding them. > Thanks for posting that. Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

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HP 2000F'

by MGemeny＠pgcps.org

The simplest distinction between HP2000 F and Access is that, F and everything prior (As I recall) used KILL-name (or KIL-name) to delete a program so that one could save a new version of it. Access changed that to PURGE-name (or PUR-name) for better "Political Correctness". I even remember that the system at Laurel HS in Laurel MD "Patti", made this change in the summer of 1976. Does ether "kill" or "purge" ring a bell to you, Richard? I see many people telling wonderful stories about HP2000 systems. If some of the others could also share with us where the systems were located, someone else in the group may also remember some of them. Three of the original HP2000 operating systems are running under SIMH, version E, F, and Access. If anyone is interested in booting up a real HP2000 TSB OS on simulated hardware (E should run on Unix, all three should run on Windoz), you may want to checkout: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hp2000family/ The links to the E and F Zips are in the links section of the group. The group is a good place to ask support questions about the OS or the simulation. New members are moderated to prevent spam bots from spamming us. If I can tell that you're a real person I'll take that off as soon as I see it, or you can call it to my attention by email. The Access Zip STILL has a real backup of a real system on it (sorry about that). So it is available by request. On the subject of Z999, I seem to recall that at least some of the systems before Access even had the HELLO program residing in Z999. As far as I have seen in the Access source Z999 no longer had any special privelages. Someone asked about backing up TSB E without a tape drive. The 7900 disk drive had one fixed platter and one removable platter. The system and A000 library was on the fixed platter, and user catalogs were on the removable platter. To backup, you first shutdown the Timeshare System. Then remove the top disk platter cartridge (containing the user libraries). Put a scratch cartridge in and copy the fixed disk to it. Then put the user data cartridge back in and copy it to the fixed disk platter (trashing your system disk). Then put in another scratch disk and copy the user data from the fixed disk to the removable disk. Then, put your backup of the system data back in, restore the fixed disk, then put your user pack back in and start up the timeshare again. Presto, you now have a backup removable platter containing a copy of the system platter and another with a copy of the user data. If course, when running on simulated hardware, tape drives are free, so we usually backup even TSB E to tape image files. The TSB E OS was distributed on two paper tapes, with a third tape for the loader. The ZIP files for the simulator contain images of the original paper tapes. Remember, the simulator is only simulating the hardware. Even on Access we are using an image of the original paper tape bootstrap to get the system running. The original operating systems don't know that they are not running on real hardware. Even for someone interested in building a real system, having access to all of the binaries and documentation in one nice neat package that is freely available and will even boot and run on a laptop, should be a helpful tool. It can help you get used to the system operator, system administrator and system analyst roles before you get your real hardware running. And besides, it's fun to "telnet 127.0.0.1" and do a CR LF CR LF and see "PLEASE LOG IN". If anyone knows or may be able to track down anyone who may still have an old HP2000 system back up tape, we would love to hear about it. We have had great success reading and reloading old tapes under simulation. Hope this helps, Mike Gemeny

19 years, 8 months

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Cylinders versus tracks...

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

A Cylinder is not a single point; it's the collection of multiple tracks that are all under the read/write heads whenever the heads are positioned over that cylinder. It exists only because there are multiple heads. However, while a double sided floppy drive does have cylinders, some systems did not take advantage of them and accessed the floppy drive using all of one side first, then all of the other side, rather than using cylinders (rather than tracks) sequentially. Both types of access are possible, and cylinder based access is clearly "better", but not all systems worked that way. Message: 31 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:59:35 -0600 From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Cylinders versus tracks... To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <458BD6B7.8040100 at yahoo.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Out of interest, which is the correct terminology when defining a single point on a disk's surface - is it better to talk in terms of cylinders, or tracks? People often seem to talk about floppy drives in terms of tracks, heads and sectors (e.g. for an 80 cylinder floppy with two sides they'll still talk in terms of tracks 1-80 in conjunction with a side number, even though the media has 160 tracks in total) Talking in terms of cylinders seems to be generally the norm with hard disks though, and perhaps seems a bit more sensible - but remember that hard disk manufacturers are the people who introduced decimal megabytes into common use :-) Personally I prefer to talk in terms of 'surface number' rather than 'head number', as a given surface could conceivably have more than one head in order to improve media latency - but I'm unsure as to whether to use cylinder/surface/sector or track/surface/sector. It's all just semantics, but for the stuff I'm currently working on I'd rather go with the 'correct' version even if that happens not to be the one most commonly used... cheers Jules

19 years, 8 months

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Cylinders versus tracks...

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

* Jules Richardson wrote: Out of interest, which is the correct terminology when defining a single point on a disk's surface - is it better to talk in terms of cylinders, or tracks? People often seem to talk about floppy drives in terms of tracks, heads and sectors (e.g. for an 80 cylinder floppy with two sides they'll still talk in terms of tracks 1-80 in conjunction with a side number, even though the media has 160 tracks in total) Talking in terms of cylinders seems to be generally the norm with hard disks though, and perhaps seems a bit more sensible - but remember that hard disk manufacturers are the people who introduced decimal megabytes into common use :-) Personally I prefer to talk in terms of 'surface number' rather than 'head number', as a given surface could conceivably have more than one head in order to improve media latency - but I'm unsure as to whether to use cylinder/surface/sector or track/surface/sector. It's all just semantics, but for the stuff I'm currently working on I'd rather go with the 'correct' version even if that happens not to be the one most commonly used... cheers Jules -------------------------------------------------- Tracks was the original terminology when only one surface was used. For example on some of the early single sided floppies. Cylinders were used to describe a head switch to a new surface. The head switch would be very fast (faster than a one track seek) so continuous data could be recorded on the same track on different surfaces - in effect, a cylinder. So tracks is accurate even on multiple surfaces. But cylinders implies that data is written on all available heads before a seek is performed. With the advent of the embedded servo, tracks no longer line up neatly. A head switch may involve the new head seeking 10-100 tracks to get back to the same track number. Current state of the art is ~150K tracks per inch. So even a small difference is a lot of tracks. And 1 track seeks are now very fast, so it is rare to see controllers doing the cylinder concept. Because the usage and language has changed with time, the use of cylinders versus tracks depends a lot on the vintage of drive and controller. Cylinders were the most efficient way to use an SMD era drive with a dedicated servo surface. But they are performance lagging on today's drives. The amount of data on a track is variable and has been for many years. So the drive is divided into zones, which have a different amount of bits per track for each zone. Drives may have as many as 50 zones, ie 50 different numbers of bits per track. Modern drives often have a different number of tracks on each surface. So a single platter drive could have 2 different track counts, one for each surface. Thus current state of the art drives can have a huge difference in the number of tracks and amount of data on the surfaces. For example, a 100GB single platter drive may have 44GB on one surface and 56GB on the other surface. Because of this, you need a decoder program to even find what track you on. Cylinder and tracks don't have much meaning at the interface level. Consequently, we normally use LBA - Logical Block Address - and don't pay much attention to tracks or cylinders. Except when trying to physically view of certain spot on a disk. Billy

19 years, 8 months

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Pertec 33xx and 34xx drives

by hamren＠sdu.se

Lars Hamren writes: Hi, Computer Automation LSI-2 machines, of which I have two, used Pertec D33xx drives, of which I have none. There is now a somewhat pricey Pertec D3421 drive on eBay. The $500 question is: will this drive interface to my systems? Does anyone have documentation on Pertec 33xx and 34xx disk drives? Does anyone know if 34xx can drives be used on systems designed for 33xx? Regards /Lars ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lars Hamr?n Tel...: +46( 46)189090 Svensk Datorutveckling Mobile: +46(705)189090 Vadm?llan 211 e-post: hamren at sdu.se S-225 94 Lund WWW...: www.sdu.se Sweden

19 years, 8 months

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Extraneous Features (was: Re: Advice for tape drive repair...)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 22:00 -0600 12/21/06, Jules wrote: >Yes, but they're *there* for a lot of products, whether you want them or not. >If they're not there, and are optional extras, and you pay an additional fee >for them if you want them, fine. This is a bit unusual, but there are cases where the added features make it impossible to use the product. Cell-phone cameras are a case in point. There are places I work where I would not be allowed to carry a cell phone which has a camera. Mine doesn't, so I'm OK. Then there are cases (in software, usually) where an "added feature" means an entry point for abuse/breakage .... that affects more people. <busy erasing Spam at the moment....> -- Mark Tapley, Dwarf Engineer (I haven't cleared my neighborhood) 210-379-4635 Dwarf Phone, 210-522-6025 Office Phone

19 years, 8 months

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Multibus II Card on eBay

by ken＠seefried.com

Dunno if anyone on the list is into Multibus II gear, but if you are you might want to grab this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190064943671 It's not a VME card, it's a 68030 Multibus II card. Very unusual. He's got a few other more pedestrian M-II card as well. Ken

19 years, 8 months

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Cylinders versus tracks...

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

> Out of interest, which is the correct terminology when defining a single point > on a disk's surface - is it better to talk in terms of cylinders, or tracks? I generally teach it this way. A track is the path traced by a single head during a rotation of the spindle. A cylinder is the set of tracks traced by all the heads for a single position of the arm. Thus specifying the cylinder number specifies the position of the arm. Specifying the head number selects the desired track from the set in the cylinder. > cylinder/surface/sector or track/surface/sector. It's all just semantics, but Track/surface is actually redundant since the combination of cylinder and head uniquely identifies a track. In other words, the track number implies the surface. As to the usage in the floppy world, I'd guess that it started with the old single-sided floppies. For them, a cylinder and a track were the same thing. Then for double-sided floppies, people tended to talk in terms of a track number on a side and didn't think in terms of cylinders at all. But on multiplatter disks, the concept of a cylinder becomes a lot more meaningful. Regardless of how many surfaces we have, it is the difference between our current cylinder number and the desired one that dominates the access time. BLS

19 years, 8 months

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Bell 103 Datasets

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Yes that's it!! All of their stuff was that bright red colour. That reminds me... If anybody hears of a Newbury Labs VDU (M2480) up for grabs or sale they might let me know. I worked there in the early 70's and another one of the guy's from those days lives about a mile from me. rodsmallwood at btconnect.com 0118 971 4436 -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball Sent: 21 December 2006 22:40 To: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Bell 103 Datasets Rod Smallwood wrote: > Priot to that UK acoustic couplers where available. I remember > connecting to a time sharing service (RSTS on an 11/70) using a > ModTech coupler whilst working on VDU design circa 1973. Was it by any chance this model Modular Technology modem: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11328208 at N00/329472291/ (orange-red acoustic coupler, model XAC3001, full or half duplex, 300 baud). -- John Honniball coredump at gifford.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

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Searching cctalk Archive

by ksr＠krother.com

Is anyone else having trouble searching the CCTALK archive. I always get an empty search result. Thanks

19 years, 8 months

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AP 120B

by kahrs＠caip.rutgers.edu

Now on epay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320063237143&fromMakeTra… Looks very cool, but heavy. I have the manuals for this thing somewhere I think.

19 years, 8 months

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Bell 103 Datasets

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi It was not mandatory to use BT modems but they were suppposed to be approved with a (BATB) sticker on the bottom. Both Hayes and USR produced UK versions. Plus there were some UK made modems eg Modular Techology & Dowty. Priot to that UK acoustic couplers where available. I remember connecting to a time sharing service (RSTS on an 11/70) using a ModTech coupler whilst working on VDU design circa 1973. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: 20 December 2006 23:59 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Bell 103 Datasets > In the UK at that sort of time you were presumably required to have a > GPO (later BT) modem and nothing else, but I'm afraid the web seems to > be rather I beleive so, since everything connected to the phone line had to be rented from the GPO. I can't help with dates, but I do have a few old ex-GPO modems in the collection. The Modem 2B is a large box (about 16" square and 7" high from memory. It's 300 baud, original and answer. The front panel opens by undoing 2 captice screws at the bottom and then hinging it up (there's a little 'stay' to keep it open). Insider are 4 plug-in modules -- PSU, Demodulator, Control, Modulator, with testpoints, fuses, and adjustments on the front panels. The modulator appears to be a VCO with switched control voltage. The demodulator has 'tobacco tins' which cotnain complex LC filter networks, and appears to work by mixingthe incoming signal with a lcoal oscillator, extracting the 'sum' frequency, and feeding that to a discrimiator circuit (similar to one of the standard ones used in FM radio receivers, I forget which). It's all discrete transistors and relays (in the control module), no ICs. The Modem D1200A is similar in construction and design (and seems to be the same case) but is 1200/75 baud (I forget which way round, it may well be the 'host' end of a Prestel link). The Modem 13A is somewhat later. It's a plinth that's screwed to the bottom of a type 746 telephone (one of the standard desk telephones of the 1970s). the phone has buttons to select voice or 'data' in front of the handset rest. The circuitry seems to use several metal-can (10 or 12 lead TO5-like cans) ICs that I know nothing about, and alas the schematic diagram inside the phone just shows the wiring to the extra switches and to the modem unit, no details of the internal circuitry of the modem itself. Again it seems to be 300 baud, probably originate only. -tony

19 years, 8 months

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TTL Calculator Project

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Several months back, we talked about a calculator built from TTL. It came >from a 1970's article in Practical Electronics, an English Magazine. I had 7 requests for copies, which I mailed directly to the requestors. Apparently they disappeared into a black hole, because I didn't receive a single acknowledgement, let alone a thank you. So for those still interested, Al Kossow scanned my copy and posted it on bitsavers: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/practicalElectronics/digi-cal/Digi-Cal_Jul72-Ma y73.pdf Billy

19 years, 8 months

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Friden Flexowriter

by o2bfrank21＠netzero.net

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20061221/3b6fbffa/at…>

19 years, 8 months

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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance (lead-free)

by jtp＠chinalake.com

Mil-Spec in the US is exempt from lead-free. Bonding, whiskers (growing shorts) and the like are know quantities in leaded; and lead-free formulations are still evolving--and improving. A long term concern is what happens to the leaded parts supply. Some of the manufacturers I've spoken with say they will continue to produce lead parts for mil, areo and medical, but will watch the market. No comment on what this will potentially do to leaded parts prices. I have a small stock pile of leaded parts for one application I support, mostly for price stability, and hopefully I will find an appropriate electrical and mechanical bond system by the time I run out. A nice side effect of RoHS, is that many companies are discounting their lead parts. We picked up a nice stock of MicroChip [direct] parts from .18-.40 cents on the dollar for example. Chers,-jp

19 years, 8 months

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Pro Toolit docu

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

Anybody interested in a Pro/Toolit V3.0 documentation set? Without the binders, but with the spine inserts and side inserts. Only postage to be paid and docs are in the Netherlands (about 15Kg) Ed

19 years, 8 months

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Floppy Manuals

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Finally, some manuals for 5.25 and 8 inch MPI drives. These are useful because these models were OEM'd to literally hundreds of companies. Some had a different connector, used hard sectoring, etc. There were dozens of different colours. And many used their own labels so you didn't know who actually made the drive. But for all the hundreds of configurations, the mechanics were the same (except for pulley changes to 50 cycle, and capacitor change to 220V AC). If you are playing around with old floppies, you might find these manuals useful. There is an amazing amount of common mechanics and circuitry. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/77715900_9428_HwMaint_Sep85.pdf and http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/75897465_9404B_floppyMaint.pdf One of the things I did then was create and track all the different configurations. I know that at one time, I had more than 60 colour schemes on the 8 inch floppy. We tried to avoid doing a separate manual for each config. Instead the basic manual was sent along with an Errata sheet for unique features. These multiple configurations are what eventually killed the maintenance manuals. The documentation department was getting bigger than the engineering group! It wasn't possible to OEM hundreds of configurations and document each with a separate manual. A poll of the customers showed that most only needed interface data for design. So schematics and parts lists and wire lists all went the way of the dinosaurs. Designers were sent engineering drawings on request. Lest you think this is an exaggeration, my notes show that we had more than 2500 separate configurations of the Hawk, a 14 inch cartridge drive (10 MB). I also see that there were more than 500 configurations of the CMD, another 14 inch cartridge drive (96 MB). There was even a room that had the different configurations charted on the walls - all 4 walls. I understand the feeling of those on this list about maintenance manuals. But they didn't have to live with this nightmare. All the mini companies and the early PC companies wanted to differentiate their products. Compatibility was anathema. If customers could read their disk on another system, they might buy it instead of yours. Using different formats, sectoring, interface connectors were all part of protecting market share. But companies trying to fulfill all these unique requirements were drowning in the details. Support finally became impossible - so a generic approach was taken. Then further simplification was done until only a fluff manual was done. Billy

19 years, 8 months

1
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5.25 Floppy Application Notes

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

For those of you who are working with old 5.25 floppies and trying to build your own data recovery circuits, I loaned Al two old MPI Application notes. He has posted them: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/77653447_5inchPrecomp_Aug83.pdf and http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/75897469_5inchFDD_Fmt_Jan80.pdf There's a lot of information here that might be useful in understanding some of the early formats and data recovery techniques. The first one also includes circuits and wave shapes using the WD1691, WD 179X and NEC 765.) Billy

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Humor - Kludge Komputer

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

I also gave Al several humorous articles from the early 1960's. Originally they ran in Datamation. If you've never read about the Kludge Komputer Kompany, you might enjoy a laugh. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/datamation/

19 years, 8 months

1
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Bell 103 Datasets

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jules Richardson wrote: Tony Duell wrote: > I can't help with dates, but I do have a few old ex-GPO modems in the > collection. > > The Modem 2B is a large box (about 16" square and 7" high from memory. > It's 300 baud, original and answer. The front panel opens by undoing 2 > captice screws at the bottom and then hinging it up (there's a little > 'stay' to keep it open). Insider are 4 plug-in modules -- PSU, > Demodulator, Control, Modulator, with testpoints, fuses, and adjustments > on the front panels. Hmm yes, we have one of those at the museum; it's a wonderful bit of construction! I've been unable to work out if the 2B was the UK's first foray into modems or not though - was there ever an official 2A, or maybe a 1B or 1A that were even earlier? (I'm off over to the museum tomorrow, but I don't think any of the ex-GPO lot will be in to ask) There are some really good UK telecomms websites out there, but unfortunately whilst they cover phones and exchanges and test equipment, none of them seem to provide any details on the GPO modems... cheers Jules ------------------------------- I asked a friend who is a historian on British telegraphy if he had any data or dates. Here is his reply: Billy Pettit wrote: > > > Bill the question is: what are the first UK modems and when did they > come out? Can you help establish a time line? Billy: Nothing in any of my reference books. Might be worth an inquiry to the BT Archives: http://www.btplc.com/Thegroup/BTsHistory/BTgrouparchives/index.htm Bill Billy

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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HP 2000F'

by rickb＠bensene.com

> Rick wrote.... > > Z999 was also an interesting account --- it was the "system > >overhead" account. > I'm not so sure about this (and I have the source). There are > no "default" > accounts present when a 2000/Access system is loaded. There > isn't even an A000 account. All accounts must be manually > created and none are supplied on initial distribution tapes. > There were general conventions put forth like some accounts > were not to be created because they were reserved for HP > products, but that wasn't coded into the OS anywhere that I > am aware of. I have never heard of a "system overhead" > account. If there is, I've certainly learned something new. I > will go back and dig for confirmation on this. Off the top of > my head, I think the Z999 account was reserved for containing > the text files of the source of the operating system (if you > had purchased the source), or maybe for the BASIC system > diagnostics (initial system confidence test). Of course, I'm > much more familiar with 2000/Access than 2000F, so perhaps > this is something that only existed on F and no others. I > dunno. Wierd. I believe that the NAM-, and Z999 thing were part of 2000C and 2000C'. I may have accidentally implied that this existed in 2000F and beyond. It didn't. We tried. > > > In TSB, data files had to be pre-allocated to a given size, > and all of > > the blocks were "claimed" as part of the creation process. For > > example, doing a "CRE-FILE,10000" would create a 10,000 block file. > Generally true, but that depends on the file type ;) Again, this likely was under 2000C or C', which I believe only supported text file types. > > > Normal user accounts were limited to perhaps 100 to 200 > blocks of storage. > "Normal" user accounts were limited to whatever the system > administrator typed in as the account block limit when > creating the account in question. > It could be anything. The limit you could specify for each > account had a maximum of 65535 blocks. You could not issue a > CRE command for a file larger than that as a result. When the NAM-, trick was pulled, the 64K block size limit seemed to be removed. The system would try to create a file of any size specified. My recollection is that in normal cases, the space on disk had to be contiguous, so if there wasn't enough contiguous space to create the file, the create would fail. But, in the case of the "overhead" account, it appears that this restriction was lifted, and it'd hunt all over the disk for unused blocks and claim them, which really slowed the system down, and, if too large a filesize was specified would cause the system to crash, as it'd run out disk space. When we did the NAM-, trick, then did a "CATalog" command, the account was listed as Z999, and not the account we were logged into originally. There seemed to be no way to "escape" back to the original login account without logging off, and dialing back in. Interestingly enough, if we did a big file CREation, we could just shut off the teletype, and the CREate would continue to run (as evidenced by the other teletypes stopping I/O activity) until complete, then the login would be terminated. It appeared that the carrier loss interrupt on the IOP, or the communications between the IOP and executive were "tied up" during the CREate process. Whatever the case, it's clear that the "CREate" operation was a blocking operation. The installation we had at our high school (actually, the system was owned by what was called the Multnomah County (Oregon) Intermediate Education District, which served a number of middle schools and high schools in East Multomah County. Since the system served a lot of users, disk space was limited to 100 or 200 blocks. Usually Freshman and Sophomore students got 100 blocks, and Junior and Senior students got 200, because the projects were larger. A local community college (Mt. Hood Community College) had their own 2000/Access system, and user accounts were given significantly more disk blocks than we were allowed. As you said, it's all site-dependent in terms of the amount of disk space allocated for each account. I visited the data center at MCIED at one point in time. At the time, I believe that they were running 2000C. There were two CPU's, one that ran the TSB executive, and another that did I/O. The machine had a multi-platter "washing machine" style disk drive (top load), and an HP 9-track tape drive. I believe it had 32 phone lines attached to it. The modem bank was in a back room, and consisted of a bunch of Bell 103 datasets (later upgraded to 1200-baud datasets, I think once 2000F came around). The CPUs I believe were 2100's, and there was a paper tape reader/punch unit. There was also the "fixed head" disk, and one could use the SANctify (as A000) command to make a program resident on the fixed head disk for much faster access. Swapping activities also occurred on the fixed head disk. I know that it existed, because the fixed disk "crashed" a few times, resulting in multi-day outages. Once 2000F came around, the fixed head disk wasn't needed, and reliability increased quite a bit. At first we had only ASR-33 teletypes, but once 2000F rolled around we started getting some DECWriter II's that could do 1200 baud. What a difference that made. Downside was that the DECWriters didn't have paper tape, so we had to resort to loading programs pre-punched on tape (we had a bunch of offline ASR33's for tape preparation) on one of the online ASR-33's to load new programs, then migrate to the DECWriters for test/debugging. > You can pretty much forget trying to get up 2000A or 2000B. > They required fixed head disks which just aren't to be found. Seems to me that it might be possible to build a pretty simple emulator for the fixed head disk device using either Battery-Backed static RAM, or perhaps fast flash memory. The tough part would be emulating the DMA cycles. > For 2000E, you need just one cpu, paper tape reader, and 7900 > disc drive. > Neither firmware nor mag tape required. Need that 12920/21 mux though. We never had 2000E, nor 2000A/B. On 2000/E, without a tape drive, how were backups done? The service bureau started with 2000C, and upgraded along the line to C', F, then added a second system that was running 2000F', then both systems were upgraded to 2000/Access over a period of time. Sometime in the early '80's, with the advent of microcomputers, schools started building up their own systems with BASIC (our high school built an IMSAI kit, and a Sol-20 while I was there), and started using these with 8K-BASIC to supplement the timeshare systems. I believe sometime around '84 or '85, the TSB systems were decommissioned, and offered for sale. Some acquaintences I know tried to pool financial resources to acquire them, but the IED wanted a LOT of money for them, even though they were quite antiquated by that time. To my knowledge, they sat for quite some time, and then were sold to a scrapper, who mercilessly destroyed the systems to reclaim the gold. I kept in touch with my teacher for a period of time after I graduated, and they had started using Apple II's as the primary teaching machines. Last I saw him, they had a Corvus shared disk drive connected to "networked" Apple II's. I then lost touch with him after the school district re-organized, and I've tried many times to try to find him, but to no avail. > For 2000/Access, you need two cpus, 7900/7905/7906/7920 > drive, 7970 tape, firmware, and 12920/21 mux. If your cpus > are 2100's, then you also must have a paper tape reader. > > The IOP firmware has been located for 2100, 21MX/M, and > 21MX/E. These can be copied, so that isn't the huge deal it > used to be. The 12920 muxes are still hard to find, the > 7900's are somewhat hard to find. The rest is fairly easily > obtainable these days. I'd love to find the pieces to put a system together, but given the scarcity of parts, and the costs involved, it's probably way beyond my means. Worse yet, as time goes by, the stuff becomes more and more scarce. Probably have to settle with memories of those fun times. -Rick

19 years, 8 months

5
8
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WPS Files into Modern Wordprocessor

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Wasn't there something for DECwrite that would open these? Can't recall if it shipped as standard or not, and I'm still in the process of moving my VMS from my Multia to a 3000/300X so DECwrite isn't up yet. Perhaps someone else could check. DECwrite is included in the VMS Hobbyist layered product PAK

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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I8008 / Scelbal - Mark 8

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel wrote: It is an emulation of a 8008 machine I might build, (Time Permitting) -------------------------- This reminds of something I wanted to post to the list. I found my original Mark 8 PCBs. I've been preparing them to sell on Ebay, or someplace. These are from the original run made for the magazine article. They are still in the plastic bags, in the original box, have all the purchase order and shipping papers. Hard to get much more provenance on an item this old. Before I sell them, I scanned them into the computer. I don't think they can be posted - copyright problems? So those interested in the scans, let me know. If someone wants to take a chance and post them, let me know too. In the same box, I found most of the documentation, parts and PCB for the EBKA Familiarizer. I've been scanning that in, including the monitor listing, schematics and assembly manual. I didn't know I had it but the package includes some product mailers, a catalog of options, some advertising flyers and so on. I'm haven't scanned them in yet. I've written a small article on the EBKA and what I can remember of the designer. Been trying to contact him - lost touch with him 25 years ago. There are two other pieces I need to find before putting the EBKA on the market - the 1702 programmer and the master I/O PCB. I know the box number they are in and will try to reach them over the Christmas holiday. Now if I can just find my PAIA 8700. I bought it from the writer of the RE magazine article, so it is the one in the photographs. These three items will, I hope, generate some interest. And bids. Billy

19 years, 8 months

9
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RTL - was Build your own Apollo Guidance Computer

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

James B. DiGriz wrote: I believe the prolific Mr. Lancaster wrote an RTL Cookbook. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor-transistor-logic> Unfortunately I don't have a copy. jbdigriz -------------------------- I think I have a copy of that book at home in Pleasanton. I'll be flying up Saturday morning and will have a look in the book case. If so, I should be able to get some scans of the pertinent sections for you. Do you live in the Bay area? I know copies of it have shown up on eBay in last 18 months, usually going for less than $10. Billy

19 years, 8 months

2
1
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early IC ident: Sperry 1M4

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

(Speaking of early ICs...) Slim chance, but I'll ask: I have a small plastic box of (what we now call) integrated circuits. Inside are twenty-five (unused,NOS) 10-pin flat-pak ICs, but with pin 6 absent. (Very cute, there is a cardboard holder with each IC nestled in it's own cutout in the cardboard.) The ICs are stamped: SSI <-- logo (Sperry Semiconductor Incorporated?) 1M4 <-- type 6546 <-- date code On the box is a label with: MICRONETS from SPERRY SEMICONDUCTOR (SPERRY RAND CORPORATION) TYPE: 1M4 S.O.#: 20613 <-- Shipping Order # ? CUST.P.O.#: 17762 <-- Purchase Order # ? I like the term MicroNets, from a time when it was not universally agreed upon to call them ICs. Obviously I'm curious as to what they are - can't be too complex with 10 pins and given the period - but before I sit down with an ohmmeter and power supply figured I might as well ask if anybody might know. (Sperry made a lot of stuff, so it's too much to presume they were used in UNIVACs, but when did UNIVACs move to ICs?)

19 years, 8 months

2
3
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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: Remember "Madman Muntz"? :) Ahh - there's a flood of bad memories. What a bunch of utter crap he turned out. Two or three functions on one vacuum tube. Remove parts one at a time until the set doesn't work. Then add the last one back in. Sheet metal >from tin cans. High voltage wires with poor shielding. You've brought back a lot of memories, but not pleasant ones. He was one of the true characters to come out of our field. Billy

19 years, 8 months

4
5
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Targa/TIGA/??? was Re: TMS340x0

by kelly＠catcorner.org

> -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Chris M > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:33 PM > > I remember there being a product by AT & T which was > capable of manipulationg "microdots" (micropels?, > thereby creating screen resolutions much greater then > was common in those days. It was a boardset and may > have been built around the 34010 (not sure about that > though - I think the product was called Targa, and I > could have confused Targa and TIGA). I remeber the AT&T TARGA. Output was to a RGB monitor. Input via tablet with a puck and a wand. They had it running on a Wyse PC/286. I wrote a converter to the Amiga IFF and PC GIF, but I can't find the source any more. I worked at the video lab for the County College of Morris (in New Jersey) back in 90-92. They also had some SGI stuff and some film printers for the PC. All networked via ethernet. Pretty advanced for a community college. Kelly

19 years, 8 months

6
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Build your own Apollo Guidance Computer

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

William Donzelli wrote: > I think a bigger factor here was the consistentcy of switching time. All of > Seymour's design are incredibly tight on switching time. He liked to line > up signals so they would reach the next gate at the same time without > requiring a clock. Having only one gate switch time would ease design. In > all of his designs that I have worked on, he made flip flops and adders out > of individual gates. Again to have exact control of the switching time. This makes no sense. In every ECL family I have seen, when gates are assembled onto one die to make a logic function, the sum is always faster (often by a good amount) than if the same design was done using individual gates. Even if the individual gates are hand picked for speed, the complete logic function will be faster. And there is nothing to keep anyone from hand picking the complex logic functions for speed, as well. ---------------------------------- Seymour Cray did not like to use clocks. For example, his designs call for all the outputs of an adder to be perfectly aligned. He also did not like carry propagation, and wanted all the carrys out at the same time as the data. I've never seen LSI that could achieve this on 64 bit operands. Compare the speeds of some of his arithemetic units, especially the parallel multipliers, to LSI contemporary to his design. --------------------------------- There is also the speed gain of having more computing logic per board. For example in an individual gate design, the extra 2 inches of microstrip traces on the board, plus all the extras involved with getting the signal on and off each chip package, can add up to a significant part of a propagation delay of a gate. And, with more complex boards, the machine could get smaller, with a speed increase gained there as well, as the backplane (backnest?) would get smaller. ---------------------------------- But the switching time of even one gate is longer than the 2 inches of foil. His designs actually use the layout to deskew circuits. And he was big on cordwood packaging to eliminate the length of signal runs. Signals going off a module in all of his designs, are carefully timed and include the foil length and the board interconnects, be they wire or coaxial. All of what you say was true and carefully considered during design. Even where the modules were placed in a chassis was taken into account. I remember one chassis was completely re-laid out, to put the carry circuits in the center of the chassis because they had the longest propgation paths. ----------------------------------------------- > And to eliminate any un-necessary logic. There are no unused gates in any > of his computers. This is certainly a valid reason, and for some of his later designs I can see where an ECL ALU (100181, for example) may have too many extra things. Ok, perhaps a bad example, as I do not think Cray designs use ALUs, or 100K, but it is what springs to mind. But, with something like an and-or-invert gate, or even a multiplexer or demultiplexor, the off the shelf designs are basically minimized. I know the Cray-1s ECL was something like MECL III or 100K, and certainly whoever the chip maker was could have supplied some basic logic functions beyond a gate or two. I think the extra effort to use them would have been minimal, with a great payoff. --------------------------------- When he left CDC, he looked at commercial logic families. And I believe he did do a design with MECL III. CDC proper moved on to MECL 10K for the Cyber 170s and MECL 100K for the STARs and ETA systems. Some CDC designs also used proprietory logic designs. But by then commercial logic suppliers were able to do a better job than in-house designers could and they were cheaper. Most of the in-house foundries were sold. CDC's was, and so was DEC's and Data General's. IBM moved on to be the power house foundry it is today. Makes you wonder who was right. Meanwhile, Seymour moved into more exotic logic trying to get more speed. I think he was working on a weird gallium-arsenide wafer scale design at the time of his death. At the time of the 6600, 7600 and Cray 1, there was no commercial family that could equal the speed of the Cray designs. Some came along (10K/100K) but they were real power hogs. Every gate had complimentary outputs. Every signal had to be terminated. The heat generated was so great that every IC had a heat sink under it, and the heat sink went to a freon cooled cold plate. I spent 4 year designing with MECL 10K. The experience was enough to convince to get out of design and go back to the field. It was a miserable family to work with. And I can assure you that there was skew on the outputs of any of the LSI blocks, but really bad on the 10181. Even with the special carry circuits, it took weeks of wire tuning to get the 96 bit floating point adder to work. We used to go back to the source (Seymour's design in the 7600) and marvel at it. 5 years after he designed it using transistors, we were still trying to equal his performance with MECL. ------------------------------- > Miserable servicing? As someone who spent literally years tuning wires in > Seymour's designs, I have to agree. His machines were very demanding to > impossible to maintain. Just before it died, I spent a few hours on the > 8600. None of us on that machine believed it could be maintained! And the > math models all gave the MTBF as a negative number! I once heard that one of the big boxes in a computer room that hosted a Cray would have a fancy tag like "Disk Control" or something, but that was actually where the field engineer lived. --------------------------------- On my last field site, my office was called "Spares." -------------------------------------- Billy

19 years, 8 months

3
2
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Advice for tape drive repair / maintenance (silicon)

by jtp＠chinalake.com

>Silicone is pretty mushy stuff. I wonder if a polyurethane elastomer such as Lexel might work a bit better? >I use it for caulking around water and it's very sticky and sets to a fairly firm texture. >Cheers, >Chuck Oh, it's 'mushy'; used it to feed very fine paper w/o deforming it. It gets a bit of paper dust on it and feeds very nicely. It doesn't work for a pinch-pickup. I had access to fun industrial stuff in the long ago, but I've since used a number of 3M, Loctite silicon/poly/ure electronic encapsulants and consumer/commercial sealants (RTV and heat). I am sure there is stuff that takes to high density and speed better, but my expertise in this area is finite. Cheer, jp

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Cottonwood BBS is operational!

by drewbrasil＠yahoo.com.br

Cottonwood BBS is back online and operational! After much trial and error, I've got all the right pieces put together... So dust off your old modem, and give Cottonwood BBS a call. It's presently the only known Commodore dial-up BBS in existence! I apologize to anyone who tried to call before... The VoIP line I tried to use didn't work out... So I'm back with a new number, a regular phone line, and NO line noise! Call now at +1 (951)242-3593 For detailed information on the BBS, and tips on connecting, check out the Cottonwood BBS informational website: http://www.wiskow.hpg.ig.com.br/index.htm -Andrew aka Balzabaar (SysOp) _______________________________________________________ Voc? quer respostas para suas perguntas? Ou voc? sabe muito e quer compartilhar seu conhecimento? Experimente o Yahoo! Respostas ! http://br.answers.yahoo.com/ Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list

19 years, 8 months

11
12
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EXAByte EXB-8500 tape drive available

by vax9000＠gmail.com

It's condition is unknown. It is taken out from a external SCSI case, and the HD from the same case works. The face panel is lost, but other parts look good. If you want it, you pay actual shipping from Ohio, US. Otherwise I will dispose it to the city computer recycling program (not to reuse, but to recycle the metal and plastic I guess). vax, 9000

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Build your own Apollo Guidance Computer

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

William Donzelli wrote: Adding just ten more chip types will not significantly increase manufacturing overhead. How many parts total were on the Cray-1 BOM? 10,000? 20,000? making it 10,010 or 20,010 is not going to strain the inventory folks. Also, by adding just ten more chip type, the total number of chips in the system will have gone down - perhaps by ten percent. That will greatly increase yield. Back in those hand-placed hand-soldered surface mount days, board errors were far more likely to be bad solder joints (using that old fashioned solder! horrors!) than misplaced parts. One of the Cray-1s faults was the somewhat miserable servicing requirements, and the crummy downtime that forced it. Fewer parts would have increased uptime (although many of the issues with the machines were not chip related). -- Will -------------------------- I think a bigger factor here was the consistentcy of switching time. All of Seymour's design are incredibly tight on switching time. He liked to line up signals so they would reach the next gate at the same time without requiring a clock. Having only one gate switch time would ease design. In all of his designs that I have worked on, he made flip flops and adders out of individual gates. Again to have exact control of the switching time. And to eliminate any un-necessary logic. There are no unused gates in any of his computers. So I don't think inventory count was a factor. It was just his design phiilosophy - minimum logic, exact timing. There is a great book on this: "Design of a Computer: 6600". Al has it on his site; well worth downloading and reading. Miserable servicing? As someone who spent literally years tuning wires in Seymour's designs, I have to agree. His machines were very demanding to impossible to maintain. Just before it died, I spent a few hours on the 8600. None of us on that machine believed it could be maintained! And the math models all gave the MTBF as a negative number! Billy

19 years, 8 months

3
2
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Other Bazaar Boards

by wsj＠garlic.com

HI, I saw your post about, what ever happened to John Bell. We were friends in high school, but I lost touch with him. Yesterday I learned he passed away. He is listed as deceased on our high school web site. Do you know any other information about John? Thanks, Wayne http://classreport.org/main/classdirectory.asp?dname=/usa/ca/san_mateo/smhs… The John Bell 6502 board used to be advertised in the back pages of pre-1980 Byte magazines, along with a selection of other JB cards. I seem to recall the 6502 card was minimal-chip system essentially aimed at "embedded processor" type applications. So I don't think it came with a preprogrammed EPROM; you were expected to develop your own firmware for it. They had another bare board for a video display terminal based on an Intel 8085 (basically an implementation of the circuit in an Intel application note) and they also sold some low-cost interface cards for Apple II parallel interfacing using the 6522 VIA chips that were then popular in Commodore Pets. I remember building a couple of those JB interfaces for lab experiments. I wonder who "John Bell" was and whatever happened to him? Arlen Michaels

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

HP 3000 update and apology to list

by jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu

Apologize in that I found out the system was not an HP 3000, and I raised expectation of several list members about a system. The good news is that it is a nice HP 9000 900, which is nice and fast and has a good copy of HP/UX loaded, and will be visiting my house on a permanent basis when I get back after the new year. I have several of the visualize hp 9000's if anyone is into those, and wants some. I won't discard them but would be willing to share them if someone wants to come get them. Jim

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Mag Tapes

by kth＠srv.net

Anyone out there with a 800 BPI magtape drive that could read some RSTS/E DecWord install tapes? Prefer a USA address, due to shipping costs. Would like to make these images available, but don't really want to spend $100 in shipping costs. (5 tapes, about 6 lbs, from 83401)

19 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

RTL Cookbook

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Amazon has several used ones - try http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=067220715X/donlancastersgurA/ And Don's web page is always fun to visit : http://www.tinaja.com/ Billy

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Bell 103 Datasets (was: HP 2000F')

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Richard asked: Speak of Bell modems, does anyone have a timeline or reference for modem equipment before the phone system was broken up and anyone was allowed to make them? Wikipedia has an entry for the Bell 103 300bps modem, which they say was released in 1962. There is also an entry for the Bell 202 1200bps modem with no date reference. Does anyone else have more complete information about modems before the diversity of manufacturers entered the scene? -- Can't help you on the official time line. But I can put dates to my first contacts with them. I helped build a system for the IRS that used the Bell 101. This was in the fall of 1963. We had both Bell 301's and 103's in the lab. And retrofitted the 101's to 301's early in 1964. All of these units were transistor based. The first remote terminal systems we shipped to DARPA used racks of 101's driving teletypes. This was also late 1963. The first non-Bell data set I worked on was in 1967. It was a mature design, IC based, high volume, so probably started in 1966. Billy

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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RTL - was Build your own Apollo Guidance Computer

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: On 20 Dec 2006 at 11:21, James B. DiGriz wrote: > Now that is something I didn't know and find very much worth looking > into. Any quick pointers to info on RTL operating in this mode? I'll dig through my old literature. I recall that Motorola offered an "Experimenter's Kit" of about 6 of their TO-99 packaged milliwatt RTL circuits with some non-digital application notes. Anyone still have the little booklet that came with this kit? Cheers, Chuck ---------------------------------------------------- I know that RCA also had a nice set of Application Notes for introducing RTL. I'm not certain I still have them - came out in 1962. Some of the early RCA data books still had them inside. Maybe one of our data book collectors has copies. If so, I'll be glad to scan them. Al, does your data book collection have an RTL book? And I have seen an RTL CookBook-like manual with a bunch of circuits in it. Would have been in 1969-70. I believe I bought it England. Had a green cover, paper boards. I want to say Plessey published it, but the synapses aren't firing on this one. Maybe one of our English members remembers it? Any one have a copy? Billy

19 years, 8 months

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