- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jdbryan＠acm.org

Would anyone know the difference between a 2100A and a 2100S? Is it just packaging (such as, e.g., the "13246A Printer Subsystem," which was simply a 9866A printer and a 2640A terminal duplex card that were sold together)? Or is there something fundamentally different in the hardware? -- Dave

19 years, 8 months

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USB 5.25" floppy (was: laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Essentially a USB version of the Catweasel??? That's exactly what it is. A flux-tranistion interface daughter card for a fpga4fun SAXO board (USB2 chip and Altera FPGA). http://www.fpga4fun.com/board_Xylo.html This is probably similar to what the Device Side Data board is, but the intention that I have is to make the entire design, including the tool chain and host/device side code freely available. The tape wizl is a multichannel preamp and A/D converter attached to the same board. Cost could be driven down by designing a single board, but right now I'm only worrying about the boards needed for tape/disc interfacing.

19 years, 8 months

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USB 5.25" floppy (was: laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Link to a possible USB 5.25" floppy drive: http://silme.pair.com/~goldman/deviceside/ -- I spoke to him at VCF, and was unimpressed by how closed he intends to keep the HW/SW. A USB floppy interface will be part of the fallout from the 'wizl' development that I'm doing, though the hardware is going to be in the $100+ range. http://bitsavers.org/tools/wizl/diskwizl/ I'm going to spend this next quarter concentrating on developing the wizl. Was looking back and it's been six years since I started looking at getting an analog 7-track tape reader running, and I need to get this project finished.

19 years, 8 months

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Yet another bounty: CompuServe software ($$$)

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

Hey All. Does anyone have this software by chance? Compuserv professional connection plus. Message management with forms. Compuserv, Inc. 1988 (PC3-Mail System) If so, it's worth some bucks to you. Please contact me directly (I'm not subscribed and won't get replies here). Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

19 years, 8 months

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USB 5.25" floppy (was: laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?)

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Link to a possible USB 5.25" floppy drive: http://silme.pair.com/~goldman/deviceside/

19 years, 8 months

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Intergraph / Clipper / HLH Orion

by roosmcd＠dds.nl

> From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Intergraph / Clipper / HLH Orion > >> So noone has one of the Intergraph workstations? A pity. They were a >> dominant player, you'd have expected some of the machines to survive! > > > There are quite a few in Rhode Island at both computer groups. Even an > Intergraph VAX, with weird disk controllers made to search for polygon > data in hardware. > I still have a 2020 and a 125 from a lot I traded some time ago . These were used as GIS systems by the government. Never got the 125 to work because of some bug in the installation procedure. The steel-encased Intergraph 21" color monitor was also very nice.... I also have a lot of documentation, cd-roms, tapes and floppies. If anyone is interested, I have Intergraph memory for sale for 2000 machines, sets of 4x4MB special Intergraph 30-pin simms; my machines already is at the 64MB max. I've tried a long time to sell those, so far no luck, so I don't think many people have Intergraph workstations :) . greetings, Michiel

19 years, 8 months

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Atari 800, 810 parts (or Apple II) wanted

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

> > but what were the differences besides the keyboard? > > They must have had similar internals. > > Expansion options I would think. A friend of mine in highschool had both > the 400 and 800 units , but we only used the 800 when we had groups over to > play Ultima III and IV. I snooped around and remember that there were card > slots for RAM and ROM carts under the hood of the 800 but never looked in > the 400. > > This site shows the expansion bays (and differences) in the 2 units: > > http://www.silicium.org/atari/800.htm > http://www.silicium.org/atari/400.htm > > It looks like the 400 was stuck with its 16K? RAM while the 800 can be > expanded more and it has an extra ROM port it seems. > > The original series was built like a tank, the XL and later models were not > as good from what I remember. The cast aluminum internal case was for EMI reasons. They were being extremely conservative to the point of overkill since, at that time, the less restrictive FCC ratings specifically for digital devices in homes weren't yet in existence. The 400 sold for US $549.95 while exactly the same hardware (with respect to custom processors and processing power) with more expansion capability and a real keyboard went for US $999.95 in the Atari 800. That $450 merely for more _easy_ expandability and a real rather than membrane keyboard wasn't enough to me to justify the additional cost, so I bought the 400 and wired up internally more memory and a real keyboard later on (for FAR less than $450). Byte magazine did a highly complimentary two-part (IIRC) series of articles on the powerful (for then) custom sound and graphics chips in the Atari machines. This was what led me to buy the Atari 400 a few years before the Commodore 64 became available. Jay Miner was the lead designer for those custom chips and he would later design the Amiga custom chips after leaving Atari. http://oldcomputers.net/atari400.html http://oldcomputers.net/atari800.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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Intel component data catalog 1982 on epay

by vax9000＠gmail.com

item 150077784822 Not my auction I post it here because the is near the end but only 8 people have viewed it! Maybe due to bad title or bad category. vax, 9000

19 years, 8 months

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laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: "What about taking an external USB 3.5" floppy drive and connecting a 5.25" drive to the interface that is being used for the 3.5" drive? It seems like it should work." Won't work. ALL of the USB 3.5" floppy drives that I've taken apart (over 100) are fully integrated USB devices. They are NOT a standard floppy drive (with a 34-pin floppy drive interface) and a USB-to-floppy controller.

19 years, 8 months

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Old D.E.C. Software and Hardware Manuals Available

by frajkp＠netscape.net

Hi, I have a few old Digital Equipment Corp. manuals. If anyone is interested in them they are yours for shipping costs (I'm in Ontario, Canada). They are as follows: - DEC System 10 - Mathematical Languages Handbook - DEC System 10 - Assembly Language Handbook - DEC System 10 - Users Handbook - KW11-L line time clock manual - ME11-L core memory system manual - Decscope User's Manual - RK611/RK06 Disk Susbsystem user's manual - DR11-C general device interface manual - AR11 User's guide - DL11-W serial iine unit/real time clock option maintenance manual - DL11 asynchronous line interface manual - RK11-D and RK11-E moving head disk drive controller manual - Rk611/RK06 disk subsystem installation manual - DZ11 user's guide Thanks ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.

19 years, 8 months

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REPOSTING: Fw: an ADM-3A cam in tod...ay (Why this message hadn't shown up???)

by alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 2:01 PM Subject: Re: an ADM-3A cam in tod...ay >> Mac portrait displays are presumably similarly difficult to get >> replacement CRTs for, at least without realigning the yoke (I gather that >> most CRTs don't like a change in orientation, although I used to run a >> Sun colour display on its side a few years ago with no obvious >> ill-effects) >> For more conventional equipment I suspect that a swap is possible, >> providing knowledge of how to tweak the old circuits with the new tube is >> known. > > There is a very simple way of doing that. I though you all knew that, > and didn't want to be redundant, but here we go: > > - For mac portrait displays, I don't know. But I always had run tubes > on vertical on...ARCADE MACHINES! :D There is no problem on running B/W or > colour tubes on vertical, trust me. > > - Tube swap is very simple. You can assume that if the neck connector > fits, it will work. There are not many different tubes around, the problem > is the yoke. On B/W tubes you just take the yoke of the fried tube off and > put that on the new. No special alignment/convergence procedure necessary. > Just line up the text on screen moving the yoke cw/ccw and you are set. > For colour tubes, there are differences, here we go. > > - There are mainly three types of colour tubes: Mini-neck (the neck is > the diameter of a fat finger), Low focus and High focus. Of course, I'm > talking about inline masks. That Delta tubes (the RGB triad is a delta of > points, instead of three lines one besides other) I've never seen that > used in anything beyond televisions. If you have a monitor using a delta > mask tube, forget it! The adjustments you're going to do are too difficult > even to a profissional. > > - Low focus and High focus: You can see what kind is, looking at the > tube socket or the neck end of the tube. The high focus tube has a plastic > ring inserted on the pins, with a pin isolated from all the others. You > can see the same in the socket. Low focus doesn't have that, the end of > the tube has only pins, no plastic separator. > > - If you change colour tubes (talking about high focus and low focus), > usually it is just a matter of changing the tube and using the same > deflection set (yoke, convergence rings et al). E.G.: You have a monitor > like the Amiga 1084/S which uses a philips or samsung tube, Low focus > type, 15KHz yoke. Just buy any (!) television with the same > chacarteristics (low focus) and change it. Yes, you can use the same yoke. > Almost always the paramenters of the yoke are **the same**. The same > happens for VGA monitors. Usually, all vga monitors uses the same type of > yokes. YMMV, but this is the rule here. Please note: Yokes of 15 KHz > monitors and 31 KHz monitors (vga and above) are NOT intechangeable. But > the tubes ARE! > > - If you need to change the tube of, as an example, an EGA monitor, > you'll not find a complete set from a television of from an old vga > monitor, you'll have to change only the tube, keeping the deflection parts > (yoke, convergence ring) and will have to do all the convergence procedure > yourself. It is boring, it is hard, it is boring. But if you have no way > to find a suitable replacement tube, there you are. > > Ok, too much words, here we go for a simple list: > - If you have a B/W monitor, you can change the tube for ANY tube with > the same neck size and that fits phisically in place. Keep the yoke from > the old tube and put it on the new. You'll be only changing the glass > tube. > - If you have a COLOUR monitor, if the pixels are inline (sets of three > bars, RGB on screen), you can change for any tube of the SAME type, paying > attention if it is low focus or high focus. You can go some sizes above > and beyond. E.G: A 14" monitor can use a 17" or even a 20" tube, the > reverse is true. > - If you have a VGA or HIGHER frequency monitor, you need a tube with > yoke from a monitor of SIMILAR frequencies. Same as above > - If you have a 15 KHz monitor and only have a VGA tube, and > vice-versa, you can change THE TUBE, but will have to change the > deflection set (yoke/convergence rings) and do all the convergence > procedure yourself. Samsung manuals are great for teaching that, get the > Syncmaster III service manual and be free. > > Any questions, feel free to write me > > Greetings from Brazil, > Alexandre Souza > www.tabajara-labs.com.br

19 years, 8 months

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Atari 800, 810 parts (or Apple II) wanted

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I take it the 800 was the successor to the 400, the 1st unit my fingers ever typed on. Lol at typed on. You needed a ball peen hammer to do any serious coding. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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Build your own Apollo Guidance Computer

by grant＠stockly.com

http://klabs.org/history/build_agc/ Thanks to Richard Cini for the link! No, its not a kit from me, but it is really cool! It has good potential to become a kit! : ) Its an older link, but very cool. :) Grant

19 years, 8 months

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useful 286 docs for OS creation?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-80286-Operating-Systems-Writers-Guide_W0QQitemZ27… I'm trying to think if I have one of these in my stash. I ain't paying $20 for it regardless. Anyone have one? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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govliq: mux and 26MB BAE/xerox hard drives

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> DEC RK03 (or workalike) I believe, looks to be in minty fresh > condition :) Diablo series 30 would be 2.5mb. Can't really tell from the pic of the box, but if they are in the 20mb range they would be Diablo series 40 5440 style with one fixed, one removable. 24 sector would work on TI and Interdata.

19 years, 8 months

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govliq: HP servers -- does anyone recognize these?

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=1085688&convertTo=USD> LOT (2) HP SPP31 SERVERS, PRODUCT NO A5081A/ A4830-63001. SN US10076726, US10076544. I don't recognize the cabinet, but it appears to have been stripped of all skins. Beefy power inputs though! -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

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My second Mac

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> Beyond that, you can easily spend more upgrading than a faster newer >> machine would cost you on the used market. That said... > > Nah, I'm just trying to figure out the Mac "culture". I want to get > my currently unused workstation monitor on the G3 and poke around a > bit. Forget about OS X then, and think about the evolution of a computer from a 128K 68000 through a G4 with a gigabyte of memory. There are still applications that will run on the last version of OS 9 that were written for the original Mac. Mac users would typically have many times the number of applications than a Windows user, mostly because most had no installation requirements other than dragging the app onto the system. Drivers and system extensions were easily added by putting them in the Extensions folder inside of System. The way some of them worked (patching into system calls) sometimes resulted in system conflicts. The biggest problem in the 68K Mac world was a holdover from the earliest days of trying to fit into a tiny memory footprint. The flat 68K address space was segmented to create position independent code chunks that could move around as the system compacted memory. Unfortunately, the data space was also segmented, so the APIs often had 64K restrictions on data areas. PPC Macs got rid of that, and went to a flat memory model, which made programming applications with large code/data footprints MUCH easier. The big problem with the MacOS was there really was no architecture. Features were tacked on, including things like two different shared library architecutres on PPC because they evolved through two different devlopment groups. In the end the API was a "Mactintosh Mystery House", with dead-end APIs, and APIs that were bloated and ridiculously over-engineered (Comm Toolbox, for instance). Adherence to backwards compatibility really was why it was impossible for Apple to come up with a replacement for MacOS until someone (Jobs) finally cut the cord. This was impossible from the bottom up, no one at the top was willing to have old applications break en mass.

19 years, 8 months

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MVME parts in Philadelphia and elsewhere

by mnusa2＠hotmail.com

Hi All, I'm going to Philadelphia, PA for two weeks. I collect Motorola MVME computers and I would like to find some spares to take back to Europe. Do You know any places near and good places even far to find classic computer parts. I have a weekend to spare and I have a car. BR, Matti. _________________________________________________________________ Uutiset ja kasvot uutisten takaa. MSN Search, t?yden palvelun hakukone. http://search.msn.fi

19 years, 8 months

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RK02/RK03

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Can someone tell me if the DEC > RK03 was actually a rebadged Diablo 30? RK02 == Diablo 31 with 1100bpi heads (1.25mb) RK03 == Diablo 31 with 2200bpi heads (2.5mb) There was also an RK01, used with the RK8 contoller but it is not a Diablo drive.

19 years, 8 months

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Mac OS 9- browsers

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 22:28 -0600 1/6/07, Zane wrote: > Of course if you want to be able to surf from this system, >Mac OS X is pretty much a requirement. There is no modern web >browser for Mac OS 9. Were it not for the adjective "modern", I'd say: http://www.icab.de/ (as has been mentioned) http://www.opera.com/ (find Version 6.0.3 on their website) With the "modern" it becomes a bit more debateable. They do still run, though. -- Mark Tapley, Dwarf Engineer (I haven't cleared my neighborhood) 210-379-4635 Dwarf Phone, 210-522-6025 Office Phone

19 years, 8 months

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FA: HP HP-2117F on ebay

by oldcpu＠rogerwilco.org

I don't know anything about HP minis, so I don't know what to look for, but for those on the list that have HPs and might be interested... The main unit: item # 320060663740 The FP unit: item # 320060663048 No bids yet. J

19 years, 8 months

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Motorola 6800D2

by chuck.patten＠verizon.net

Hi Allison, it was directed at the person who might have an excess 6800D2 unit. Unfortunately I never received your reply before today (I found it in a Google search...) cheers, chuck... Allison ajp166 <mailto:cctalk%40classiccmp.org?Subject=Motorola%206800D2&In-Reply-To=> at bellatlantic.net Mon Aug 15 21:30:44 CDT 2005 * Previous message: volunteers <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/201021.html> wanted for list help :) * Next message: Compaq <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/201024.html> SLT/286 * Messages sorted by: [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/date.html#201023> date ] [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/thread.html#201023> thread ] [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/subject.html#201023> subject ] [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/author.html#201023> author ] _____ This is aimed at whom? Allison > >Subject: Motorola 6800D2 > From: "Chuck Patten" <chuck.patten at verizon.net <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> > > Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:05:00 -0700 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> > > >Noticed you had collected one from an old thread. Are you interested in >parting with it? > > > >cheers, > >chuck. > > _____ * Previous message: volunteers <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/201021.html> wanted for list help :) * Next message: Compaq <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/201024.html> SLT/286 * Messages sorted by: [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/date.html#201023> date ] [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/thread.html#201023> thread ] [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/subject.html#201023> subject ] [ <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2005-August/author.html#201023> author ] _____ More information <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> about the cctalk mailing list

19 years, 8 months

2
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ET-3400/ETA-3400 ROMs 444-24/444-51

by peter.hofmann＠chello.at

Hallo Paul, Found your link in a discussion forum on >> From: "James E Cosper" <jec at jcosper.com> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Heathkit ETA-3400 Modifications I am searching very hard the images of ET-3400/ETA-3400 ROMs 444-24/444-51. I would be very happy to find someone, who has these equipment and can make a dump/punch to a file from the ROM address ranges 1400-23FF and F800-FFFF (MON>P 1400,23FFcr + MON>P F800-FFFFcr). May be you have any info for me? Many thanks in advance and best regards from Austria peter peter.hofmann at chello.at

19 years, 8 months

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Atari 800, 810 parts (or Apple II) wanted

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

but what were the differences besides the keyboard? They must have had similar internals. --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu> wrote: > >I take it the 800 was the successor to the 400, the > >1st unit my fingers ever typed on. > > > No, the 800 was released at the same time as the 400. 400 was the "lower > end games computer", 800 was the "more serious" higher end computer. > > > Marty __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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2.5GB bigfoot drives on dovebid

by cheri-post＠web.de

> On 6 Jan 2007 at 16:40, Richard wrote: > > > Wasn't there some discussion recently looking for < 10 GB drives? > > > > There's a bunch of 2.5GB drives on dovebid right now... > > Quantum Bigfoot--bleah. Miserable things. Yeah, I would'nt rely on Bigfoot drives, too. They are *very* low-cost and so is the quality and therefore reliability. We had several of these which gave up work quite quickly. One should try to avoid them. Regards, Pierre _______________________________________________________________________ Viren-Scan f?r Ihren PC! Jetzt f?r jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos. Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222

19 years, 8 months

2
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My second Mac

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 09:51:16 -0800 >From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> >I picked up another Mac yesterday--a beige 300 Mhz G3 with 256MB, >and a 15 GB hard disk. It's also got a USB adapter plugged into one >of the PCI slots. It's running OS 9.something. Set me back $20. >Were Zip drives a standard part of these things? > >On a side-by-side with a Win2K P1 225MHz system with the same amount >of memory, I think the WIndoze box has snappier response and has >better video. > >For you Mac addicts, what do you think should be my next step in >getting the most out of this box? My experience with the Beige G3 is that the stock hard drives are slow as molasses. The built-in IDE bus is only 16.7 MB/s (whichever ATA that is) but the hard drive doesn't even perform up to that level--at least mine did not. Once I installed a more modern hard drive (faster media rate, i.e. faster data from platters to heads) the machine showed a marked improvement in performance. Beyond that, you can easily spend more upgrading than a faster newer machine would cost you on the used market. That said... A faster IDE card would improve things as well. Acard makes a very nice two channel ATA-133 card however, it will set you back about twice what you paid for the machine. Some years ago VST Tech sold an ATA-66 card based on the Promise UltraTek 66 card. If you move three or four SM resistors, possibly pull the half-size metal can oscillator (there are different versions of the UT66 and some have the Osc. and others don't) and desolder and reprogram the Winbond Flash chip, you can convert a cheap (<$5) Promise UltraTek66 into a VST UltraTek66. If you care, I'll try to hunt up the conversion instructions. The Promise cards were apparently OEM in DELL machines or some such, so there are a bunch of them on the used market. The bus speed and bus-CPU multiplier are controlled by a jumper block on the front left of the motherboard. You can change the bus speed >from 66MHz to 75 (IIRC) or 83 MHz by moving jumpers. However, many of the Beige G3s won't operate at 83 MHz and tests show that this doesn't really make a big difference in performance. The 300 MHz CPU can often be run at around 366 MHz, so you can speed your CPU a bit by changing the bus-CPU ratio. Many folks have done this reliably, but my experience was that it caused problems after a while. CPU replacements up to 1.1 GHz are also available but the manufacturer's (PowerLogix) retail outlet (OWC, macsales.com) seems to be out of them. See above about spending more money than a newer used computer would cost... There's a gap in speeds between 500 MHz and 900 MHz having to do with the version history of the PPC750. The machine used PC66 SDRAM but PC100 or PC133 will also work. DIMM capacities up to 256 MB are supported but some addressing modes are not. So you need (I think) 16 chip DIMMs on the 256 MB capacity. IIRC eight chip 256 MB DIMMs will not work or will only be seen as 128 MB. 512 MB DIMMs won't work because of limitations of the Motorola/Freescale MPC106 memory/PCI controller/bridge. For the things where my memory is hazy (indicated by a ? or "I think") check the articles on G3 computers at xlr8yourmac.com. Also, there's a link from the FAQ there to the jumper settings for the Beige G3 motherboard clock and ratio settings. >I don't care for the Mac monitor that came with it--has anyone tried >hooking up a fixed-frequency SOG workstation monitor to it? I've got >a nice HP/Sony model that might be a candidate. Mac DB15 to VGA adapters are common and cheap (=<$4, I sell a multi-rez model for $4 shipped in USA). If the monitor will work with a VGA output, it should be possible to make it work on the built-in video of the Beige G3. However, the Beige G3 and earlier Macs rely on sense codes in the monitor cable to indicate what resolutions are supported. When an adapter is used the sense codes are provided by the adapter. Some adapters are fixed-resolution coded so it's tough to get anything but the adapter's fixed resolution out of the Mac if you use a fixed resolution adapter. Other adapters are "universal" and have DIP switches to support many resolutions, and one of the resolution code choices is "21" multi-resolution". Jeff Walther

19 years, 8 months

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microprocessors in my vax 3800

by vax9000＠gmail.com

Today I pulled out the boards in my vax 3800 and I found 7 microprocessors besides the CVAX. They are, 2x 68000, 8096, 80186, 2x 8086, Z80. Just a little discovery to share with you. vax, 9000

19 years, 8 months

3
2
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My second Mac

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:57:06 -0800 (PST) >From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> >> I picked up another Mac yesterday--a beige 300 Mhz G3 with 256MB, >> On a side-by-side with a Win2K P1 225MHz system with the same amount >> of memory, I think the WIndoze box has snappier response and has >> better video. > >The beige G3 has only a Rage II+ card by default. The later Revision 2 and >3 use Rage Pro. Thus, I think the video issue you're noticing is probably >the accelerator. The original 300 is almost certainly Revision 1. The video chip can be visually examined, although the "Wings" card (AV card) may be in the way. It will have Rage II or Rage Pro (or Rage Turbo?) printed on it. You may also be able to get this information from Apple system Profiler in the Apple menu. If the ROM DIMM has not been switched out, you can determine your revision by looking at the ROM revision in the first page of Apple System Profiler. Under "Production Information" look at "ROM Revision". If it is $77D.40F2 then you have a Revision A ROM. If this ROM shipped with this motherboard then you also have a revision 1 motherboard. However, the ROM DIMM is pretty easy to switch so there's no guarantee that the machine contains the ROM it originally shipped with and all of the ROM revisions work with all of the motherboard revisions. If the ROM revision is $77D.45F1 it is a revision B. If it is $77D.45F2 it is a revision C and absent ROM swapping the machine probably has a RAGE Pro video chip. If you have a Rev. A ROM, then the built-in IDE channels in the machine will only support 1 device per channel. You need Rev. B or C ROM for two device support per channel. You can also determine your ROM revision by looking at the Apple part number on the two ROM chips on the ROM DIMM. However, I don't remember the numbers. It's something like 341S0409 and 0408 is Rev. A, 341S0494 adn 0495 is Rev. C and I've never seen a Rev. B with the part numbers on it so I can't say, but I imagine it's 341S04xx with xx up close to 90. No matter which motherboard you have, switching to a B or C ROM will enable two device support on the IDE channels. >You might as well get a Rage Orion and I think you'll find the performance >much better. The Rage Orion is a 16MB Rage 128 PCI card, and I know from >personal experience that it is Mac-compatible and has good performance. >They're pretty cheap on the used market. Rage Orion was ATI's name for one of the Macintosh versions of the Rage 128. PC versions of the Rage 128 won't work. (I am not contradicting Cameron, just restating his information a bit.) It may be possible to do a conversion from PC version to Mac version, but I don't think anyone has ever reported a successful modification. The Radeon 7000 works well in the Beige and the Sapphire version of the PCI card with DDR memory is easily converted to Macintosh use. It is also just $30 at Newegg. Simply remove the eight pin SOIC serial flash chip and replace it with a blank ST Micro M25P10. It should then either flash with the current Mac firmware updater from ATI or it may require the R7000-ROM-208 version. It's been a while. I know the latter will work. I'm not sure about the former. Whichever way, update to the latest firmware afterwards, because there are some Sleep issues with earlier versions. 3D driver support is only official after OS 9.2 but if you install the Open GL 1.22 or 1.24 extensions by hand into OS 9.1 it works fine. Jeff Walther

19 years, 8 months

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My Second Mac

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> On Sun, 7 Jan 2007, Scott Quinn wrote: > > My guess has to do with processors: i80486 binaries can run just fine > > on Pentium+ systems. > > so can 8088 binaries. (With occasional exceptions that don't typically > show up in common usage (such as PUSH SP)) > But not all Pentium+ binaries will run on 8088, or even i80486. > > > There seemed to have been a cultural difference between Motorola and > intel. > > Motorola would design each major generation from scratch, thus > producing a > much better processor, but without legacy software. > > intel, OTOH, would bend over backwards to try to maintain 4004 > compatibility. We're talking about two slightly different things here, though- 68000 (while it did not have provisions for easily running 6800 code) had a common-mode so that programs built on the 68040 could run on the 68000, but you can also have code that requires instructions (or other things) added on later 68000-series processors, similar to Intel (variable 286-style segments, the copy-on-write provision of the 80486, etc.). The transition between 68000 and PPC was more like the Intel gap between the x86 and the 960 - they are completely different processors with no common heritage (the common heritage piece was provided by Apple in firmware). I haven't worked with them, but AFAIK the new embedded versions of the 68000 (ColdFire?) maintain the tradition of working with earlier 68ks (except in a few cases).

19 years, 8 months

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My Second Mac

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Chuck wrote > On 6 Jan 2007 at 19:41, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >> >> So I don't see what's so restrictive about the Mac requirements at >> all, >> frankly. > > You're right, it's a matter of small degree. Mac OS 8 = 1997; > Windows 95 = 1995. Intel 80486 = 1989; PPC 601 = 1992. It's pretty > much a moot point anyway--everyone's going to be x86 by-and-by. > > Cheers, > Chuck > My guess has to do with processors: i80486 binaries can run just fine on Pentium+ systems. The software probably can work just fine at 68040 speeds, but then when run on PowerPC systems you have the emulation overhead which drops speeds to around a IIci (25MHz 68030, think Sun-3) on a 8100/80 (80MHz PPC601) Some companies didn't want the bother of maintaining two versions (68k and PPC, especially after the PPC machines had been out a year or two), so they would compile PPC only- hence the higher system requirements.

19 years, 8 months

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Stunning recreation work: Danger Will Robinson!

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote: **>> snip <<** > > Back in late 1998, my buddy Sheldon Leemon (author > of "Mapping the C-64") > won the grand prize in an online sweepstakes. The > prize was a full-size > promotional version of the robot from the remake o f > "Lost in Space". > It had been touring the USA and Japan. Doesn't lo ok > quite the same: > > http://www.robotoys.com/lis99.jpg > > 600 pounds, New Line Cinema valued it at $4,500. We > debated what we > might do with it, never coming to any good > conclusions. I was tempted > to store it in my barn. He never picked it up. I t > sat in a shipping > yard for months. I think it eventually started > running up charges and > was sent back in mid-1999. I wonder where it went ! > > - John > Urghh!!!! Why would you want that piece of trash?!!! Sorry, but I think it's the worst designed robot in the history of films! Robbie the robot (Forbidden Planet, 3 or 4 eps of Lost In Space 60's tv series, background in Gremlins 1 (or 2?) and even in a Columbo film >from the 70's!), Gort (Day The Earth Stood Still), Maximillion (The Black Hole) and more modern robot's such as Robocop, ED-209 and Caine (all from the Robocop films), plus the T-1000 (Terminator), are much better designed to be menacing and/or cool looking. When I saw the one from the Lost In Space film (from 90's) I just laughed. To be honest, going from the picture, it looks like a cross between the robot's from Short Circuit and Caine from Robocop 2. Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

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Stunning recreation work: Danger Will Robinson!

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- "Bryan K. Blackburn" <oldcomp at cox.net> wrote: > Recently we have seen recreations of several vinta ge > computers like the > Mark-8 Minicomputer, the Apple 1, the IMSAI 8080 a nd > most recently the > Altair 8800, but wait till you see this!!! > > eBay item # 230051400851 > > The effort that must have went into this project.. .! > Detailed > construction photos here: > > http://www.lostinspacerobot.com/newsletter.html > > I confess that I have always wanted one of these! :) > I have no > connection with the seller etc. & etc. > My dad has got 2 plastic models from Lost In Space. One had the giant holding a boulder above his head with John and Don below him and the other one was a 6" (or thereabouts) tall model of the Robinson robot. Not sure where they are now though. If he had the money I'm sure he would want the replica of the Robinson robot :) Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

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garbled display

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

and I should also point out some of the screen is reverse video, some is blinking. Anyone know what happened to John Allain? --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> wrote: > it only helps if youre going to swing by and unseat > the 80186 from its bizarre cage. I aint touching one > ever again. But thanks all the same Roger :) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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Stunning recreation work: Danger Will Robinson!

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: > aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > Why would you want that piece of trash?!!! > > Sorry, but I think it's the worst designed robot > > in the history of films! > > Robbie the robot (Forbidden Planet, 3 or 4 eps > > of Lost In Space 60's tv series, background in > > Gremlins 1 (or 2?) and even in a Columbo film > > from the 70's!), Gort (Day The Earth Stood > > Still), Maximillion (The Black Hole) and more > > modern robot's such as Robocop, ED-209 and > > Caine (all from the Robocop films), plus the > > T-1000 (Terminator), are much better designed > > to be menacing and/or cool looking. > > Are you sure you're not talking about the T-800? > The T-1000 is the > liquid-metal jobbie. > > Peace... Sridhar > Ooops. Yeah, I meant the T-800 (Arnold Schwarzenegger). Whilst double-checking the T-number, I came across this huge list of goof's (page is around 200KB's): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103064/goofs Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

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Intergraph / Clipper / HLH Orion

by ken＠seefried.com

I recall Opus made a AT bus plugin card with a Clipper. Think it ran Clix.

19 years, 8 months

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TRS-80 stuff available in Stockton CA for pickup

by yakowenk＠yahoo.com

Hey, all, I've got mail from some guy with a bit of TRS-80 stuff available for pickup: 3 TRS-80 computers, a TRS-80 5 Meg Disk System, manuals, flopppies, etc. If you can rescue it, let me know. I'll forward replies to him. He's in Stockton CA, and I've told him we can probably arrange a pick-up and save him the hassle of shipping. BTW, I've been slacking on this for about two weeks now, so I'll have to double-check that the items are still available. But I wanted to send this to the list now, rather than checking with him first and running the risk of falling into procrastination-land again... Cheers, Bill. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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Use of HCL to dissolve severe corrosion from NiCad or Alkaline Batteries or oxidation

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

can you buy it in powder form? You mean you all apply hcl to a circuit board??? Aint there a less caustic substance for the job? --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: > Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 7 Jan 2007 at 10:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > > >> 1. I've only been able to buy gallon sized containers of the 30% HCL (Muriatic > >> Acid). That is very unwieldily to handle. A polyethelene containter with a > >> small "spout" (available at drugstores) is an easy solution. Just be careful > >> when transferring the acid from the gallon container to the poly container - > >> use a poly funnel - HCL is "nasty" stuff. > > > > Another caution--DO NOT STORE THE CONTAINER IN YOUR WORKSHOP OR > > WHEREVER YOU KEEP YOUR EQUIPMENT! Muriatic acid is hydrogen chloride > > gas dissolved in water and tends to "fume". Which means that if the > > cap on the container is slightly loose or the container is cracked, > > you'll be in for an eventual surprise. > > > > I kept a gallon of muriatic stored in my workshop and thought the cap > > was screwed on tightly (it wasn't). After about 2 weeks, I noted > > that all of my cast-iron shop equpment was coated with a fine > > dappling of rust. My HCl is now stored in a weatherproof container > > out-of-doors. I can't imagine what such fumes might do to the > > innards of a disk drive. > > > > For a somewhat tamer substitute, one might try sulfamic acid--a > > powder dissolved in water and normally used for cleaning masonry (as > > is muriatic acid). You can often find it at stores that deal in > > ceramic tile supplies. > > You can store hydrochloric acid dilute without worrying about it fuming. > > Peace... Sridhar __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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My second Mac

by cclist＠sydex.com

I picked up another Mac yesterday--a beige 300 Mhz G3 with 256MB, and a 15 GB hard disk. It's also got a USB adapter plugged into one of the PCI slots. It's running OS 9.something. Set me back $20. Were Zip drives a standard part of these things? On a side-by-side with a Win2K P1 225MHz system with the same amount of memory, I think the WIndoze box has snappier response and has better video. For you Mac addicts, what do you think should be my next step in getting the most out of this box? I don't care for the Mac monitor that came with it--has anyone tried hooking up a fixed-frequency SOG workstation monitor to it? I've got a nice HP/Sony model that might be a candidate. Cheers, Chuck

19 years, 8 months

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garbled display

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

it only helps if youre going to swing by and unseat the 80186 from its bizarre cage. I aint touching one ever again. But thanks all the same Roger :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

no actually. I should have specified no older then a 486. For creating/dumping images and whatnot. Some early lt floppies were just slender versions of dt units __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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garbled display

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

actually rows and columns of blocks of ascii chars, some blinking. To which Im greeted upon switching on a Tandy 2000. Typically what does this indicate? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

not seemingly likely w/the current crop of usb units, but would it be possible to get a 5.25 to work in say an older lt w/an integral 3.5? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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Use of HCL to dissolve severe corrosion from NiCad or Alkaline Batteries or oxidation

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

In response to an offlist question, here's a bit more info on HCL use: 1. I've only been able to buy gallon sized containers of the 30% HCL (Muriatic Acid). That is very unwieldily to handle. A polyethelene containter with a small "spout" (available at drugstores) is an easy solution. Just be careful when transferring the acid from the gallon container to the poly container - use a poly funnel - HCL is "nasty" stuff. 2. Use as little acid as possible on a board/module/motherboard. Before applying the acid I look over the board - and discover the corroded/oxidized components and apply the acid directly to the components. The acid will flow to other, non-oxidized components, but it won't hurt them. A toothbrush can be used to scrub stubborn corrosion - but I've found it is rarely needed. 3. After applying the acid, rinse it off as soon as the "fizzling" stops. Use plenty of cold water to eliminate all traces of the acid. Then use a final rinse of distilled water. 4. I avoid putting acid on adjustable, semi-sealed components, such as potentiometers, variable capacitors, enclosed switches, etc. If they are badly corroded - replace them. 5. I use a hair dryer set at medium-heat/high-speed to dry the board and under chips, etc. Drying will also eliminate any traces of residual acid that may have been left behind. (HCL turns to a gas when it "drys out"). Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

19 years, 8 months

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From another list: 4D-series (POWER & Professional) SGI gear

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Can't remember if I sent this- found it on a different list and I can forward mail > EDIT Jan,7: No one's interested into old stuff anymore? If no one > claims them they will go in the trash real soon! It'd be a shame... If > you're not interested in taking them all there's loads of perfectly > working boards, IP7s, IO4s with plenty of SCSI, GTX graphic set, power > supplies, backplanes, skins, etc, etc. Anyway let me know. > > > Hi all, > > I have a few older Silicon Graphics systems up for grabs if anyone is > interested. There's three 4D Predator racks, a deskside 4D/70GT and a > Challenge XL. All the machines are complete except for the Challenge > which is missing the CPU and memory boards. Except for that everything > is there. They also come with a few boxes of parts, cables, keyboards > and such. A 17" SGI monitor is also part of the lot. > > Pictures here: > http://web.newsguy.com/AlexPhotos/sgi.html > > Everything is free if you take them as is. If you only want boards or > other parts, I'll charge a small fee for the packaging material and > for my time. > The machines are located in Montreal, Canada. Looks like the Challenge might not have processor boards, but the other systems seem to. The 4D/70 is a Twin Tower

19 years, 8 months

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My second Mac

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

the stark reality is Im not all that confident using the term dongle. I think they may have been called that, but Im not sure :(. Some had dials by the way. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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2.5GB bigfoot drives on dovebid

by legalize＠xmission.com

Wasn't there some discussion recently looking for < 10 GB drives? There's a bunch of 2.5GB drives on dovebid right now... -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

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not quite on topic but, classic analogue satellite tv decoding boxes

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hold on!!! I have a use for FM analogue Sat RX's.. We use them for amateur television (a branch of Amateur Radio) I'll take any you have and if they have manual tuning so much the better!! Rod Smallwood Email rodsmallwood at btconnect.com -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson Sent: 06 January 2007 00:01 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: not quite on topic but, classic analogue satellite tv decoding boxes Witchy wrote: > Hello folks, > > I've got a pair of old UK SKY TV boxen (1997 era) that are pretty > useless as analogue SKY TV was switched off in 2001; can the hardware > be used for anything else or is it pretty much paperweight material? Paperweight, I would have thought - I've never heard of them being able to do anything 'clever' (unlike, say, some of Acorn's set top boxes which do resemble a computer closely enough to fire up a web browser on, talk to a few very specific hardware add-ons etc.). I doubt there's even many useful components that can be salvaged as it'll likely all be surface mount stuff and big shiny screened silver boxes inside. cheers Jules

19 years, 8 months

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Sun plastics

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

try something less potent. Testors, 2 part epoxy, gorilla glue, Goop... --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <compoobah at valleyimplants.com> wrote: > Has anyone had success fixing the plastic "alloy" that Sun uses in > their cases? > > MEK and cyanoacrylate turn it into a mushy grainy mess. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

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Free stuff near Seattle WA

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

More may come up, but here's the list for now 1x DEC DSSI tri-link connector 12-39921-02 Used to connect DSSI busses to beasties like HSD controllers. 1x either a Sun SPARCstation 5/110 256MB or a Tatung COMPstation 20 (SPARCstation 20 clone) 1x SM40, 128MB RAM.

19 years, 8 months

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Upcoming Scrounge, Southern Cal.

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

This is being posted to: TekScopes, HP, TestGear, and CCTech lists. Fellow techies, I'm going to have a day or so of opportunity to do some serious scrounging in the southern California region, specifically around Anaheim and vicinity, coming up in May of this year. Being that I haven't been near the area since 1993, I could really use some pointers on who's who in the electronic surplus arena that would be worth a look. My primary interests are in test gear (usually RF and telecommunications, but I keep an open mind), specialized hand tools for connector crimping (both mil-spec and commercial), and "legacy" telephone equipment from the Bell System/Western Electric heyday. So... Let the suggestions fly! ;-) Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

19 years, 8 months

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House cleaning! Everything must go!

by derschjo＠msu.edu

Ok, not _everything_ but rather an incredible simulation! I've managed to amass quite a bit of vintage-ish computer hardware that I haven't got much use for any longer -- I figure that someone out there can make better use of this stuff than I currently am. All of this stuff is free, unless otherwise noted -- I just want this stuff _gone_. At the moment I realllly prefer local pick-up (in the Seattle area) since I don't have a lot of time to be shipping stuff out. Unless otherwise noted, the items are in working condition (or were the last time I used them). A lot of these are listed sans RAM/hard disk/keyboard -- I have a lot of extra parts lying around and if you need one I'm happy to throw it in for you, if I have suitable spares. Some of these I don't remember all of the details of offhand (just did a quick perusal of my inventory), so if you have specific questions or need clarification, let me know and I'll figure it out for ya... And of course, since this stuff is free, you get what you pay for -- I've tried to do my best to be honest about the state of the below junk, but I haven't used some of it in years so I make no guarantees. Thanks! Josh The items are as follows: Computers: - Apple Network Server 700/200. 200Mhz 603 PPC, 128mb of ram, CD-ROM, tape drive, and a number of empty drive trays. Notable as the only Apple computer made after the original Mac that doesn't run MacOS. Makes a great Linux/NetBSD machine, or if you have a copy of AIX 4.1 for it... - SGI Octane, 200Mhz R10k, 512mb ram, no hard disk (or tray, unfortunately...). Cabinet is slightly scuffed in front. - SGI Indigo2, 250Mhz R4400, Solid Impact video, unknown RAM (fully populated). No hard disk (or trays... sigh...) - 2x Sun Sparcstation 10, framebuffer, 40Mhz CPU, sans RAM & hard disk. - Sun Ultra 5, 266Mhz UltraSparc. - Sun Ultra 1, Creator 3D video. - Sun SparcServer 670MP. 4x40Mhz, 64mb RAM (huge, good for an anchor, ballast, scrap iron, or if you have a lot of Sun VME boards...). CD-ROM, 2.0gb hard disk w/SunOS 4.1.4 installed. Missing rear cover, and missing wheels on bottom, which makes it fun to move. - 2x HP Apollo 715/75 -- not working, no ram, no hard disk, missing 1 CPU in one of them. Listing this just in case someone needs parts... - HP Apollo 735, 24mb ram (I think...), no hard disk. - HP Apollo 700, no hard disk. - Zenith luggable PC (no idea on the model, the label sticker on the back is unreadable). 2x5.25" floppy, 8088, 640k ram (all you'll ever need.) Missing keyboard, but takes standard XT keyboard. - Intergraph TD-310. Dual PPro-200Mhz, no RAM. - Sony "ViewSystem" VIW-5000. Is it a 286 PC? Is it a Laserdisc player? No, it's both! I have no idea what this was intended to be used for, but it sure is weird. And large. And free! - Apple G3 "All-In-One". 233Mhz G3, built in 15" CRT, no hard disk. Will run OS X 10.3, with some trickery. - Apple Powermac 8100/80av. Ugly as sin, but has 233Mhz G3 upgrade in PDS slot, which evens that out a bit. - PowerComputing PowerBase 200. - Unknown portable X-Terminal w/plasma display. No power supply or peripherals. I have no idea if it works. - Network Computing Devices X-Terminal. Misc parts: - Big box of 386, 486, and Pentium motherboards & expansion cards (serial/parallel/ide combo cards, video, etc...). Most have CPUs, and ignoring the inevitable CMOS battery failures, should still work fine. - Mac IIfx motherboard, sans RAM and ROM simm. Works, but ROM simm is missing. Monitors: - Intergraph Intervue 20". Multi-frequency (not multisync), works at standard VGA frequencies, higher resolutions are at specific frequencies only, and are somewhat oddball. If you have a Matrox video card, their "Powerdesk" drivers have special support for this monitor, which makes using it under Windows quite easy. Works fine under X with specialized timings. - Radius Portrait/15 Pivot. 15", portrait/landscape. Neat. - Mag 17" monitor. Works OK most of the time, but screen sometimes randomly changes width. A fun weekend project for someone! Printers & Peripherals: - HP Laserjet II. Non-working, but probably easy to fix (has trouble pulling paper out of the tray, otherwise works fine last time I tried it). Needs new toner cartridge. - TRS-80 DMP-120 printer, unknown condition, but seems complete. - HP PaintJet. Very early inkjet printer. Worked the last time I used it, no idea if you can still buy ink for it... - Kodak Photo CD burner (external SCSI box). This is a standard 2x CD-R drive, as far as I know... Other, sort of OT, but sort of computer related: - Sony LDP-1000A Laserdisc player (hey, it has an RS-232 port on the back!) - Pioneer LD-V4200 Laserdisc player (also w/RS-232 port)

19 years, 8 months

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RL02 parts, controllers, etc.

by useddec＠gmail.com

I have 3 or 4 RL02 drives I am parting out. I also have Q-bus, Unibus, and > PDP8 controllers. If you have any interest, please contact me off list. Thanks, Paul

19 years, 8 months

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HP2000 & terminal fun

by josefcub＠gmail.com

Bob, On 1/6/07, Bob Brown <bbrown at harpercollege.edu> wrote: > I'm not fortunate enough to have any real hp-2000 class hardware to > play with, but this evening I hooked an old ADM3A that I picked up a > while back (on someone's curb) to my linux pc which runs vmware, > which runs windows-NT which runs SIMH which runs my emulated HP2000 > (mickey.ath.cx).... > That sounds like the arrangement I usually have, to run things. ;-) But you do know you can compile and/or run SIMH on Linux directly, without the slowdown of Windows NT and VMWare in the middle, right? If your distribution doesn't support compilation easily, I'm sure someone on the list would compile it for you if need be. :) > So, while I don't have the back-end hardware, I can sit at a nice > classic terminal, running at 9600 baud (I may step it down to 300 > baud just for memories), and play with my emulated hp. Sounds like loads of fun! I did the same thing, albeit with a Wyse terminal and a SIMH emulated VAX, until I'd gotten a real VAXstation bootstrapped using the same emulator. :-) Josef -- "I laugh because I dare not cry. This is a crazy world and the only way to enjoy it is to treat it as a joke." -- Hilda "Sharpie" Burroughs, "The Number of the Beast" by Robert A. Heinlein

19 years, 8 months

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my second Mac

by spectre＠floodgap.com

> One thing I didn't expect is the involved model and OS requirements > for various bits of software. I thought that the idea was that one > didn't have to engage in the upgrading game on a Mac like PC people > do. From what I've seen thus far, if anything, the Mac world seems > to be almost worse in that respect. I assume by this you're referring to the particular constraints of running a particular OS on a particular hardware configuration. Just to put it into perspective, the first beige G3 was introduced in 1997, but the Public Beta was not released until 2000 and OS X 10.0 not until 2001. The hardware issues that affected OS X didn't become apparent, then, for several years. These were originally OS 8 machines, after all. -- --------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Honk if you're illiterate! -------------------------------------------------

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Ebay: HP 82045A Thermal Paper

by billy.d.tucker＠smithbarney.com

I am interersted in buying some thermal paper for a Hewlett Packard printer. Can you give me any help? My email at home is btu68 at aol.com. Billy T. -------------------------------------------------------------- Reminder: E-mail sent through the Internet is not secure. Do not use e-mail to send us confidential information such as credit card numbers, changes of address, PIN numbers, passwords, or other important information. Do not e-mail orders to buy or sell securities, transfer funds, or send time sensitive instructions. We will not accept such orders or instructions. This e-mail is not an official trade confirmation for transactions executed for your account. Your e-mail message is not private in that it is subject to review by the Firm, its officers, agents and employees. --------------------------------------------------------------

19 years, 8 months

3
3
0 0

2nd mac

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

regarding the monitor issue, been there done that. If the G3 uses the same sense-pin scenario as earlier macs. then a dongle and a bnc cable will put u in biz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Pr1me boxes

by jwest＠ezwind.net

I'm taking a straw poll here.... how many folks are interested in obtaining a Prime 50-series computer (in general, not a specific model) for their collection? I'm not really wanting to count anyone who thinks "yeah, I'd take one if it showed up on my doorstep for free". I'm more interested in a rough count of people who want one enough to actually drive a ways, or pay shipping plus "token" amount, etc. Someone who would seriously pursue one if it became available to them. If you meet that criteria, let me know! Jay

19 years, 8 months

6
5
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My second Mac

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

...and Macs only put out video as theyre set to, at the cable-vid card junction. Youll need a doohicky to initialize it 2 a proper vid mode 4 such a display. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

2
1
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My second Mac

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

...and Macs only put out video as theyre set to, at the cable-vid card junction. Youll need a doohicky to initialize it 2 a proper vid mode 4 such a display. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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My second Mac

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

ugh and here I was thinking someone sent him a fat Mac. WS monitors work readily with even the oldest Mac IIs w/an appropriate card. Never did it with a G3 but. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

the market is about to drop out on the Cat

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

there's currently 10 on eBay right now. 9 of which are >from the previous seller (the one that banged out at $1,926). Is the guy dopey? How could he reasonably expect to get that money for each when he dumps them all on the market at once??? I would think it would make the most sense to spread them out. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

3
2
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ebay - mindset in los angeles area p/u only

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I aint got the link handy, but its searcheable. At about a buck still I think. The catch - either the monitor or the unit is defective. Currently still a valu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Onyx/Challenge skins wanted

by legalize＠xmission.com

My two new Onyx machines are almost naked! One has a top, side and front skin. The other has a top skin only. So, I am looking for skins for the box so that I can make them pretty. The Challenge/L machines use the same enclosure, so the skins from those can be used. Can anyone help me out? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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TTL 7400's Available

by technobug＠comcast.net

Cleaning out things and came across 40+ tubes (24/tube) of TTL 5400 Quad Nand Gates (Mil version of the 7400). Free for postage. Here's your chance to build your computer from scratch :oD CRC

19 years, 8 months

10
27
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Outbound Laptop; Was: Mac OS vintage

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:43:12 -0500 >From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> >Jeff Walther wrote: >> >>Additionally, the Outbound Laptop is an interesting beast in that it >>uses 2.5" IDE hard drives. This is the first Macintosh to use an >>IDE device by many many years. I don't think any Apple Mac used >>them until the Quadra 630 and its performa and LC cousins. > >Perhaps true, but there were macs with 3.5" st-506 drives long before >that. There may have been Apple machines with ST-506s but unless my memory is much worse than I hope, there was never a Macintosh with an ST-506. Unless you're thinking of the "Macintosh Hard Disk 20"? But looking through old emails, that has a Rodime Model 552 drive inside with a mysterious 26 pin interface, not an ST-506. >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:26:08 -0800 >From: "Billy Pettit" <Billy.Pettit at wdc.com> >I'm not familiar with the Outbound Laptop. What was the model number? Outbound was a company. So they were producing non-Apple Macintoshes by scavenging Apple ROMs from Apple machines. The model number in this case is the Laptop Model 125. A very cool machine with four SIMM sockets devoted to a "silicon disk"--that is a dedicated RAM Disk. You could install up to 16MB in there--at least. I have not tried 16 MB SIMMs yet. The keyboard was detachable and had an IR interface. It also had a trackbar ("isopoint") at the bottom of the keyboard. A ?-bus (not PS2, not ADB that other one used on PCs (required an ISA card) with a round connector) mouse could be plugged into the keyboard if one preferred a mouse. Additionally, using the optional SCSI adapter, the Laptop could be "docked" as an accessible SCSI device on any Macintosh with a SCSI interface. >I do know that I was supporting Apple at Quantum in early 1994 and qualified >an IDE 2.5 inch drive for their laptops. The Laptop 125 was around as early as February 1990. I'm not certain exactly when it was first released. It pred-dates the Powerbooks. So, e.g. the cool SCSI docking feature was available on an Outbound, long before it was a feature on the PowerBooks. Jeff Walther

19 years, 8 months

2
1
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Wire Rope ROMs (Was: back to the AGC, was Re: TTL 7400's Available)

by rickb＠bensene.com

Brent Hilpert wrote: > > .... I'm familiar with > core-rope ROM (or at least one version of it) from attempting > to make a reader to dump the contents of a Wang calc > microcode ROM, but the AGC version sounds like the > address-decoding/word-selection is done differently (..need a > diagram). Speaking of Wang Calculator ROM's, I've recently built a fixture that I'm successfully able to read Wang 700-series ROMs with. It's unfortunately a non-automatic system...toggle switches and TIL-311 HEX displays (can automate it later), and am in the (slow) process of dumping a known good Wang 720C ROM. The ROM strobe signal timing is very tight on the 700-series ROM...off even a little bit on the timing (pulse width), and the readout gets real inconsistent. Also trying to write a microcode execution engine in Perl to run the code, but there are lots of interesting timing considerations that require deep digging into the schematics (which is something that I have little patience for...basically, I'm not very good at it) in terms of the timing of all of the register transfers in the machine. On the surface, it looks simple, just a basic 10-phase non-overlapping clock (shift register), but there's a lot of combinatorial logic that derives a lot of weird timing from the basic clock phases. So far, my attempts to execute the code I've extracted so far lead to execution of illegal instructions (all zero ROM locations), or infinte loops, and the code execution doesn't seem to make much sense. There are also some microcode instructions that aren't documented, and having to dig through schematics to figure out what they do. Wang is also famous for purposefully putting errors into published schematics to throw off competitors who would use such schematics to reverse-engineer how the machines work. So, some of my problem could be that the schematics are not necessarily an accurate representation of the actual logic. Still some tinkering to do. Still, I'm very sure that the fixture to read the ROMs is working perfectly. All ROM locations return consistent results, and other than the emulator running into all zero ROM content (there are quite a few "unused" locations in the ROM), all of the instructions decoded thus far are "valid" in terms of the allowed values of the various microcode fields. The Wang 700, 500, and 600-series machines all used this style of ROM, so, in theory, the reader (other than hardware pinout variations and subtle microcode field diffrences) should be able to be tweeked to read the 500 or 600-series ROMs without too much work. The main goal of this is to be able to capture the microcode images for as many of the Wang calculators that use this type of ROM as possible, as this technology is really unweildly to troubleshoot and repair (and I have some ROMs that are known bad that I want to try to be able to fix), and also because the genius of Harold Koplow (now deceased) is buried in that microcode. I want to preserve as much of it as I can (and maybe figure out how he made these machines do what they do) as a legacy to him. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

19 years, 8 months

9
10
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questions about Sphere-1 micro? email me.

by legalize＠xmission.com

The Sphere-1 micro, the first personal computer, was created and built here in Utah. The creator, Mike Wise, died from complications of diabetes in December of 2004. However, one of his long-time business associates Arnold Grundvig of A-Systems is still around. <http://www.a-systems.net/company.htm> I talked with Arnold on the phone and he says that Mike regaled him with many stories over the years about the Sphere and so-on. I was interested in interviewing Mike for a short peice about that early piece of Utah computing history. Arnold has agreed to be interviewed for such a purpose instead. So if any of you have questions about the Sphere or that period of microcomputing history, please email them to me off-list and I will collect them together with my own questions, conduct an interview and post the transcript. If any of you know any "old timers" that are getting on in years, it might be a good idea to conduct a recorded interview (don't rely on notes! record it!) to capture some of the "oral history" that will be lost when they pass on. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Keyboard question

by sdc695＠yahoo.com

While not exactly computer directly related, since the silly box does have a computer in it, I'd thought I'd ask here. I've got an old TV Character generator, a Laird CG7000 to be exact. It has a nice standard 5 pin DIN connector on the front panel for its "keyboard". Now to me this looks just like a standard AT type keyboard, but alas it does nothing unless I beat on the keys then something might show up. Would anyone know what type of keyboard they use for this silly thing. It is a bit old, and I suspect it might be an XT (not an AT) keyboard (which are different). I'm going to attempt to trace out the connections to figure it out, but if someone on the list has a clue, it would be helpful to me. Not wanting to clog things up further, a response off list if probably the best. Thanks. -- Tom Watson tsw at johana.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Missing Bits

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:48:11 -0800 From: "Billy Pettit" <Billy.Pettit at wdc.com> Subject: Missing Bits -------------Original Message: <snip> Recently, I've been trying to write up some of those experiences and found that I have almost nothing on a lot of the companies. <snip> And one that is driving me crazy, a company that supplied Ada systems to the military. Was first based in Mt. View, then moved to San Jose into one of the old Amdahl buildings. I can visualize the people and systems but can't remember the name. Getting old sucks. I'd love to hear about anyone's experience with any of these companies and especially if any documents or hardware survived. And I'm especially interested in ARIX. It was a very unusual company, and obliquely mentioned in the 6 part TV series on Silicon Valley. Billy -----------Reply: I worked with an Arix system years ago, and I think at least one person up here in Ontario has one; I sent him whatever Arix documentation I had left a while ago. Dave Dunfield might know better if they're still around and who has them now. mike

19 years, 8 months

8
7
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Arix (was Rational)

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Al Kossow wrote: Did you mean Arete? We have one, and it ran a version of Unix called Arix. ------------------------------ Billy wrote: My memory is that the first few times I visited them, the company name was Arix. That was changed to Ar?te after some of the notoriety caught up with them. I'd love to meet somebody who worked at the location on Zanker road. There were things happening there that are unique in the industry. Does anybody on this list remember the room painted black? Billy

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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Stuff to give away UK

by williams.dan＠gmail.com

I have some more stuff to get rid of now. There are: 3 Vaxstations Some Amstrad CPC's Manuals I don't have equipment for : Tektronix 475 oscilloscope calibration and diagram supplement la120 letter printer programmer ref guide tektronix 475 oscilloscope service manual beckmen industrial circuitmate 9020 osilloscope operaters manual x3 cosser instruments model 3122 oscilloscope operating manual cosser instruments model 3100 oscilloscope operating manual cosser instruments model 3102 oscilloscope operating manual some vt100's with no keyboards Lots of sparcstation IPC's Apart from the manuals anything not picked up will have to be skipped. Stuff not so free. I would like some cash for, anything sensible will be accepted. Would also accept storeage of other items for a year or two ;) vax 4000/500 with external 10x external drives (all with scsi->dssi convertors) (in half rack) vax 4000/705A with external 5x dssi drives. (In standard case) Dual head octane with 1gb memory. vaxstation 4000/90. The stuff is located in Soho at the moment. It could move to Kent if not picked up soon. Thanks Dan

19 years, 8 months

1
1
0 0

govliq messages

by legalize＠xmission.com

Govliquidation.com doesn't exactly have the best descriptions, pictures, or search engine, but it does have lots of interesting stuff popping up there from time-to-time. Because its such a pain to find things on there, when I stumble across something that someone here might find interesting, I post a note with the lot link. Does anyone find this useful? Does anyone find this annoying? If its more annoying than useful, I'll stop giving y'all a heads up on these items. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

7
9
0 0

not quite on topic but, classic analogue satellite tv decoding boxes

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Hello folks, I've got a pair of old UK SKY TV boxen (1997 era) that are pretty useless as analogue SKY TV was switched off in 2001; can the hardware be used for anything else or is it pretty much paperweight material? Ta, -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?

19 years, 8 months

3
2
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Purposefully fudged schematics

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: To be certain, some errors/additions are deliberate; Rand McNally generally sprikles a few non-existent landmarks in their maps; Google satellite maps have "watermarks" that can be very confusing. I spied what looked to be clearing on some of my forested land and hiked to the very spot and found--trees, just like everywhere else. It took some conferring with a USGS employee to discover that what I thought was a clearing was a rather subtle watermark (viewed in just the right way, you can make out a "Go". Cheers, Chuck ------------------------------------- Billy wrote: It also happens closer to home in our mutual field. In the 1970's, CDC was working hard on Russian alliances. They had to prove that Russian technology was as advanced as the products CDC wanted to ship. (The old DoD guideline.) So they bought some Russian 8080's and tested them. Everything was going good until they decapped the chip. Inside, under a microscope, they found an image of Mickey Mouse's head in the metal layer. Of course, put there by Intel engineers to spot copy cat reverse engineering. The Russians hadn't caught up in technology; they had bought masks under the table and made complete ripoffs. I know other IC vendors use similiar tricks to identify their IP. One I have seen is an entire section of circuitry that has no outputs - like the old famous write only logic. And it has been faithfully copied by several Asian suppliers. Billy

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

D-shell connector age?

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Anyone know where D-shell connectors first appeared on equipment? Interesting thread going on in a local group at the moment about why SCART [1] sockets are so horrible and nasty (prone to breaking pins, difficult to line up, prone to falling out etc.) and why something better, like a D-shell connector, wasn't chosen instead. Thing is, SCART was apparently first used in consumer A/V equipment in 1977, which probably means it was thought up in the mid-70's. Edge connectors and/or circular DIN connectors were probably more common on computer equipment of that time, but were D-shell types around by then too? [1] For the non-Europeans, SCART is common on all A/V equipment in Europe and provides component RGB (as well as composite) interconnect between devices, along with stereo audio channels, sync lines, remote device standby control etc. cheers Jules

19 years, 8 months

8
16
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DECmate I program loading via serial port

by legalize＠xmission.com

According to the docs, by sending a special escape sequence you can download a program into the DECmate I over the serial terminal line. Has anyone done this? I have a DECmate I with no floppy drives although it has the interface card for the drives. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Intergraph / Clipper / HLH Orion

by legalize＠xmission.com

Does anyone have a machine with an Clipper RISC cpu in it? Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergraph_Clipper> says that only two companies ever used the Clipper (from Fairchild) were Intergraph and High Level Hardware. HLH I never heard of before; Intergraph I know of because they're big in CAD and GIS markets. Ah, WikiP says that HLF was UK firm that made the Orion. Anyone got one? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

7
12
0 0

GBC System 9 computer

by kelly＠catcorner.org

Just rescued one of these units from Craig's List. It's waiting for me a a friends house in Richmond, VA. Anyone know much about these? I think they're just a rebadged Northstar Advantage. It has a bunch of software and a manual or two. There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on these on the web. I did see the information at Dave Dunfield's site, and the disk archive there. Any manuals that have been scanned? I didn't see the Advantage line at bitsavers. Thanks for any help, Kelly

19 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Purposefully fudged schematics

by bpritts＠pritts.com

A long time ago I was involved with licensing databases (of new and used car price books-- e.g. Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book, etc.) They had the custom of salting the data with a few deliberate errors so that in the event of an infringement suit, they could prove that their data had been copied by the infringer, rather than independently created. I can't say whether the same purpose applies to schematics, but it just might be. Brad To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <459D59AD.3087.22DE923 at cclist.sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To be certain, some errors/additions are deliberate; Rand McNally generally sprikles a few non-existent landmarks in their maps; Google satellite maps have "watermarks" that can be very confusing. I spied what looked to be clearing on some of my forested land and hiked to the very spot and found--trees, just like everywhere else. It took some conferring with a USGS employee to discover that what I thought was a clearing was a rather subtle watermark (viewed in just the right way, you can make out a "Go".

19 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Text-based UI...

by bpope＠wordstock.com

Since when is a text-based UI a bad thing?!! http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/05/0025241 Cheers, Bryan

19 years, 8 months

4
3
0 0

Prime "Toons" hardware

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Dan's message about his Prime made me go glance at the Prime FAQ, and I noticed these few lines: * Prime had operational prototypes of the entire Toons system running in the lab when it was cancelled. * After the meeting to announce the closing of Prime, engineers returned to the lab and continued working on booting Primos on the Toons system. They were successful. The Toons hardware was the next generation, in development when Prime went under; I hadn't realised that it was essentially operational though. Does a complete example was ever rescued and now exists either in a museum or in private hands? cheers Jules

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Intergraph / Clipper / HLH Orion

by aek＠bitsavers.org

There were two Orions in the Computer Science machine room when I went to York, and I know where both went -- to a collector just along the road from me. -- Did either still have the original 2901 based processor? Apparently most HLH machines were upgraded to Clippers CPUs

19 years, 8 months

5
5
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Purposefully fudged schematics

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

I have seen a TV program on the one they built. It was beautifully made in brass and steel and what's more it worked! The program said he did not finish it because he simply ran out of money! Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball Sent: 04 January 2007 21:15 To: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Purposefully fudged schematics woodelf wrote: > To get back on topic about babbage's drawings, from what I read it was > mechnical design that could not be produced with 18th century > mechanical enginering. I thought the Science Museum rebuild showed that it could be built with 19th century engineering? They deliberately didn't make it any more accurate than Babbage could have, and they only found a couple of minor difficulties. One was that it was too hard to turn the handle, so they geared it down. Surely something that, if Babbage had finished the Difference Engine, he'd have done himself? -- John Honniball coredump at gifford.co.uk

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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OT: Missing quotes in message replies

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>I'm seeing a few messages where the text being replied to isn't quoted >(anything from Al and Billy Pettit it seems, but there have been one or >two others) other than a separating line beneath old and new text We're both using the web interface to the list to quickly scan the msgs then doing cut/paste to compose replies. The big problem with doing this is it loses the thread info in the mail header so they don't thread.

19 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

22 rolls of paper tape @ govliq

by aek＠bitsavers.org

the most interesting thing was it says who made it http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/haystack? nsn=7530001806260&eventId=2687&lotNumber=3209 http://www.arlon.com/ecp/duralon.asp sounds like pretty fancy stuff, paper,plastic,paper composite tape

19 years, 8 months

1
0
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OT: Missing quotes in message replies

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I'm seeing a few messages where the text being replied to isn't quoted (anything from Al and Billy Pettit it seems, but there have been one or two others) other than a separating line beneath old and new text, making it confusing at first glance (particularly where the actual line and reply might be off the bottom of the screen). Am I alone in this? I just wondered if it's something broken within my email client (Thunderbird) and it's stopped rendering what it thinks is quoted text properly for certain classes of messages. 99% of messages are fine though, and either get displayed with quote characters or displayed with a solid coloured line to the left of the quoted text. If it's just me I'll try and find the cause though; if it's not I'll just put up with it :-) cheers Jules

19 years, 8 months

5
4
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Purposefully fudged schematics (was: Wire Rope ROMs (Was: back to the AGC, was Re: TTL 7400's Available))

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

> In article <B9639BAE3F34504E83FEEDD71D4AFB460A660A at mail.bensene.com>, > "Rick Bensene" <rickb at bensene.com> writes: > > > [...] Wang is also > > famous for purposefully putting errors into published schematics to > > throw off competitors who would use such schematics to reverse-engineer > > how the machines work. [...] > > Wow, I'd never heard that story before. Interesting! > > How many other companies did this back when schematics were pretty > much leaving the machine laying naked in front of you? This is a very old practice. Some of Babbage's drawings had intentional errors. As I recall, he drew some parts in mirror image. The group that did the difference engine reconstruction in London ran into this. And the practice wasn't new when Babbage used it. BLS

19 years, 8 months

5
4
0 0

AC coupling / Solid-State / core logic

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

Chuck, found this tangentially while attempting to find more about the parametron, as per Dwight's message. The Elliot 803 used core logic with solid-state amplifiers. (Apparently core logic received more practical use than I thought, as well.) Some description: http://www.tech.port.ac.uk/staffweb/andersod/CCS/ShowPage.php?Page=19 Another description with diagram: http://www.sli-institute.ac.uk/~bob/elliott803.htm While it is AC-coupled, perhaps it is not what you were looking for, though. The logic signal propagation still takes place in discrete, clocked, time steps as opposed to continuous wave propagation, if that is an adequate description of the distinction.

19 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

22 rolls of paper tape @ govliq

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=1085392&convertTo=USD> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

1
1
0 0

SGI Onyx power cord?

by legalize＠xmission.com

I just received my first SGI "iron" -- an Onyx Reality Engine 2 250 MHz. However, the power connector is not your standard style of connector. It has three prongs, arranged horizontally: ---- ---- ---- I'm guessing that this implies it needs more than the rated 15A for a standard outlet. Any ideas where I can obtain the correct cord? Searching for "power cord" on the net just returns too many hits... -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 8 months

8
11
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Prime for sale again

by williams.dan＠gmail.com

The Prime I got back in April is on ebay again. I am moving to Australia for a year or two. I don't think I'd get it over there as hand luggage. It has been stored in my spare room for 6 months so it is in good condition. The item no, is 150077818268 Dan

19 years, 8 months

3
3
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OT: Missing quotes in message replies

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jules Richardson Wrote: I'm seeing a few messages where the text being replied to isn't quoted (anything from Al and Billy Pettit it seems, but there have been one or two others) other than a separating line beneath old and new text, making it confusing at first glance (particularly where the actual line and reply might be off the bottom of the screen). cheers Jules -------------------------------------------- Billy wrote: In my case, it is because I reply using a copy from the web site. To keep the number of emails down, I only receive digests. Yet often, I want to respond to a message without wading through the digests. So I copy off the web site, trim off the excess and comment below. I'm active, more or less on 75+ elists. And when they get active, it means 100's of emails a day. So reading and responding is very selective. For example, have you noticed how much activity there is on this list this week? It's like everybody is rested up and full of piss and vinegar. At the other extreme, some lists generate almost nothing. The paleobotany list averages 8-10 messages a year. Some of the science fiction lists are cyclical going from 100+ a day to 1-2 day and back again over a couple of months. Billy

19 years, 8 months

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Computer Music

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 25 Dec, 2006, at 10:28, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > 1) Recordings of 2nd generation (or even before, if they exist) > mainframes making tunes. There are a few recordings out there, and I > may be getting some help from CHM for more. > There some are old recordings of my 2nd generation mainframe at : http://ict1301.co.uk/13010520.htm I also have a fuller set of 33 files in .aiff format which the files on the web site were derived from. These were recorded from audio cassette tapes which are about 30 years old but seem to sound the same as I remember them. The programs to make the music is on punched cards and the card reader is currently unreliable and I don't want to risk the card decks reading them in as I only have one set. The sound came from the built in speaker, which is pulsed once for every two conditional branch instructions. I used to write pen plotter drivers for the Macintosh and there were some plotters made by Watanabe (later renamed GrafTec) which were suitable for music. The x and y axes were driven by noisy stepper motors. The speed was programmable and when drawing a large circle you could hear the stepper motors make a rising and falling tone as the angle changed. That is, drawing a 45 degree line the two motors worked at the same speed, and when drawing a horizontal/vertical line only one motor would be working For angles in between the tone would vary depending on the angle. The slower cheaper plotters made a grating sound but the faster more expensive ones were very melodic, though I never got around to programming them to make music myself, I would not be surprised if somebody did. Roger Holmes

19 years, 8 months

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Intergraph / Clipper / HLH Orion

by adamg＠pobox.com

Richard wrote: > Does anyone have a machine with an Clipper RISC cpu in it? Intergraph's Interpro series (such as the 225) had both a Clipper and an 80186, and could run CLIX as well as MS-DOS. IIRC, when running with the 186, the Clipper is programmed to act as an FPU! These machines were unusual for their time. The keyboard and mouse plug into the monitor, and the configuration system is mouse-driven. I'm not sure if it's in ROM or loaded from a reserved part of the hard drive. Their keyboard has a hard disk access LED and a bunch of extra keys. These machines seem to have been used mainly by government contractors, and they're not terribly common, but there are certainly some in the hands of collectors. -- Adam

19 years, 8 months

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back to the AGC, was Re: TTL 7400's Available

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: back to the AGC, was Re: TTL 7400's Available > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:29:50 -0800 > To: General at priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net, > "Discussion at priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >> >(And it confirmed that the AGC was constructed from a single gate/IC type.) >> >> That statement I believe is in error. While the logic used was RTL and a >> single family type the logic elements for that family by the mid 60s were >> more diverse than just a two input NOR. My junkbox contains parts from > >There are now two, perhaps three, sources from the period that indicate it was >a single gate/IC type: a dual 3-input NOR in 10-pin flat-pak. Read the >document Chuck ref'ed above (although there do seem to be some >mis-rememberings in there such as LCD instead of EL displays). I'm well aware >of the state of RTL/IC development at the time, but high-reliabiliy design >doesn't necessarily correlate with whats current in the rest of the industry. >Keep in mind the design started years before 1967/8. The IC spec sheets are >dated 1965. Around early '66 a friend that whose father worked for Grumman and NASA gave me several of the 10 pin flat packs with info. They were indeed 3input NOR but, he also provided a RS-FF in the same package. They sat in my collection for years until they were lost in a move. Shortly after that a neighbor that worked for Airborne and he brought me an engineering junk box that contained fairchild uL9xx parts galore plus a lot of aerospace qualified transistors. It was then I started working on understanding logic and how useful those RTL parts were. As to displays LEDs were indeed available in the mid 60s though they were not bright and the only color was red. I also have Burroughs Nixies from then and a 40 character selfscan from the era. I'd never seen EL used in anything other than backlight. There was also VF (vacuum florescent) displays as they were easily driven with available transistors. One of the problems then with transistors was low (usually less than 60V) breakdown voltage and most common devices were more like 25V. That complicates drivers for HV displays. Though for a price there were a lot of things available than were new or low volume. Allison

19 years, 8 months

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ZX-81 / TS 1000 keyboards

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

My friend and I have come across a large stock of working ZX-81 computers that are missing keyboards. And a stock of others with bad keyboards. These are a lot from a former Sinclair Repair Center. We'd like to get these working 100% again for sale along with the remainder of the ZX-81 kits from Zebra Systems. BTW... Stewart only has a couple hundred left, and when they're gone... that's it! Does anyone know of a source for these keyboards, or know of a company that could make them up? I have some samples and a schematic of the matrix so this shouldn't be impossible. We also have a cache of spare parts (Z-80's, ULA's, RAM chips, etc...) for these units. Also, we have a large collection of vintage New Old Stock TTL parts. We are inventorying what we have now, and will post a website with part numbers and quantities available. They've been well stored, and seem to be in great shape. We also found a small stock of Relays, and other parts. Those will be listed on the site as well. It's fun playing with a ZX-81 again. I dug out my TS-1000 and found it didn't work anymore. When we opened it, we found that the Z80 had a bent pin. And over the years it stopped making contact with the contact in the socket due to movement of the parts and corrosion. Once we bent the pin straight and reinserted the Z80, it came up like a champ! And... We also got my Coco III fixed. It came up with a pink screen. We desoldered the 68B09 and put a socket in it's place. I stole a 6809E >from a Coco 2 and popped it in. Voila! It now works! Computers in the old days were a lot more fun! Al Phila, PA

19 years, 8 months

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Purposefully fudged schematics

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

> To get back on topic about babbage's drawings, > from what I read it was mechnical design that > could not be produced with 18th century mechanical > enginering. That's often been conjectured, but, as usual, reality is somewhat more complicated. Most other craftsmen probably couldn't have produced what he designed. Along the way, he invented new techniques of fabrication and management as well as computation. However, he probably could have built it. He did build a small version that operated as he intended. And part of the reason for the construction project at the Science Museum was to determine if the materials and tools of the time could have built the machine. In the end, much of the reason he never built a full version of his designs was that he was too much the stereotypical engineer. Almost nobody except Ada could get along with him and he made a number of enemies among those who would fund his work. The money situation led to a dispute with his primary craftsman who walked out with all the custom tools they had made. Then as he was considering his options, he realized that he could improve his design many fold and so dropped his efforts on the difference engine in favor of the analytical engine. Even with that machine, he kept stopping his efforts to realize it because he was sure that he could build his new design faster than he could finish the work he had started on the previous version. As I recall, there were over 40 different designs for the analytical engine by the time it was done, and he had never built a full version of any of them. After his death, his son did assemble a small version of one of the designs for the mill including some parts that Babbage had already fabricated before his death. There's no question Babbage was ahead of his time in many ways. But he was also understood the materials and tools well enough to design a machine that he felt confident he could actually build. BLS

19 years, 8 months

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Outbound Laptop; Was: Mac OS vintage

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:00:41 -0600 >From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> > Last OS *my* 68000 Mac Plus has run is MacOS 7.1. MacTracker >claims 7.5.5, I can't dispute that as I haven't tried it but I expect >it might not do much good (no RAM left for applications). Same is >claimed for the Mac SE and Classic and PowerBook 100. MacTracker >doesn't report the Outbounds (Jeff?) but since (I think) they used >motherboards from the above systems, The Outbounds used motherboards designed and built by Outbound but with Apple ROMs installed which were scavenged from Apple Macs. I can't speak to the Notebook series but the Laptop (a much cooler machine, IMHO) will not run past Mac OS 7.0.1. However, this is a limitation in Outbound support. In order to use the Outbound Laptop Model 125 one needed to run a system installer application from Outbound after installing the stock Apple System. The Outbound installer definitely puts some code on EEPROMs living in the Outbound Laptop. It may also do some modifications to the System file, but I'm not sure about the latter. It also installs some custom Outbound inits (control panels and extensions, now days), for things such as power management and the trackbar control. Outbound went under before or pretty simultaneous with Apple releasing 7.1 so the Outbound installer was never modified to support 7.1. The required modification could be very simple from a programmer's point of view but I've never been willing to invest the time to figure it out. I'd have to develop the skills to interpret 68000 machine code in the Mac OS environment and for the Mac Plus-ish hardware and figure out what's going on and that seems like a daunting task when there are so many hardware projects around. Still, if there are any 68000 savvy programmers out there interested in taking a hack at it, it would be cool to get the Outbound Laptop past OS 7.0.1. The jump to 7.1 would be very nice. Additionally, the Outbound Laptop is an interesting beast in that it uses 2.5" IDE hard drives. This is the first Macintosh to use an IDE device by many many years. I don't think any Apple Mac used them until the Quadra 630 and its performa and LC cousins. Anyway, the Laptop only supports up to an 80 MB drive. I suspect that it just has parameters for four drives stored in the installer (20, 40, 60 & 80) but I don't know for certain. It would also be very nice to hack the thing to support larger hard drives. Have you tried to find 80 *MB* hard drives these days? Of course you have; this is the CC list. It's a pain. I had a line on a place in Florida with fifty or so in stock for about $40 each but didn't have the money at the time and now they're gone who knows where. Sigh. Anybody have the modified Macsbug application? The Outbound Laptop required a patched version of Macsbug. Also, the Outbound Laptop was meant to dock with it's host computer (the desktop from which the ROMs were taken). There was a card that installed in the host and provided teh connection to the Outbound. I've never managed to find one of these cards. I envision Pluses and SEs going to scrap or being sold without the owners ever realizing this very rare card is installed. Scrap is especially likely because a Mac with the docking card installed won't boot up unless the Laptop is docked (ROMs required). So the host machine would appear "broken". Jeff Walther

19 years, 8 months

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Outbound Laptop; Was: Mac OS vintage

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jeff Walther wrote: Additionally, the Outbound Laptop is an interesting beast in that it uses 2.5" IDE hard drives. This is the first Macintosh to use an IDE device by many many years. I don't think any Apple Mac used them until the Quadra 630 and its performa and LC cousins. Jeff Walther --------------- I'm not familiar with the Outbound Laptop. What was the model number? I do know that I was supporting Apple at Quantum in early 1994 and qualified an IDE 2.5 inch drive for their laptops. It was one of the Blackbird series, 160 if I remember correctly. Was made in Taiwan by Tatung as an ODM. For a disk drive engineer, it was an unpleasant machine - the drive was mounted above the CPU chip, dumping all the heat into the drive. Quantum could never get it to meet Apple's temperature requirements with this handicap. When Apple pushed hard, Quantum canceled the program and got out of the 2.5 inch business - no way could they be profitable with those temperature specs and Apple's pricing structure. Billy

19 years, 8 months

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MIL-MOD8 (8008) simulator and a few other goodies posted

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Dave Dunfield wrote: The MOD8 was also known as the "GNC8" (Great Northern Computers), and a later version used an 8080 processor (MOD80). Any other MOD8/GNC8/MOD80 owners or interested parties out there? Regards, Dave ---------------------- I had completely forgotten about the MOD-8. I lived in Mississauga 1972-76 working at Control Data. We had an after hours club and the MOD-8 was just coming out. So I know I have some of the documentation. The boards are another matter. One member bought the complete unit and we reverse engineered and made sets for our selves. So if I have anything left, it would be knock offs. And I think I traded them before I left Canada. Anyway, when I come across the documentation, I'll send it to Al and make it available to the list. I've got some 1702's around the house. How many do you need? Any preference on colour? White ceramic or the later black with the foggy window? Billy

19 years, 8 months

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