- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

This past weekend I was given a IBM paper tape punch, that was and still is pretty dirty. It has what looks like animal waste on it and other strange stuff. What's the best way to clean this without removing any of the paint or labels? It has the gray base and stainless steel arm on top. Thanks for any help. John

19 years, 4 months

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Micropolis 1355 ESDI hard drive "sticky bumpers" Fixed!

by andy.piercy＠gmail.com

Allison, Well hats off to you, it worked! I have now fixed the faulty internals of the two faulty Micropolis hard drives by teasing out the black gooey mass that use to be the head park rebound bumper / end stops for each drive. They had turned into a black sticky mush and as you correctly identified were holding the heads from un-parking. However one of the logic board has also gone faulty so if anyone has a spare faulty drive they would be willing to part with the hopefully working bottom logic board please contact me. Drive type: Micropolis 1355 ESDI 5 1/4 full height (144 MB) Part no. 900568-11-4a Faulty PCB part number: 101942-04-3 B2 Eprom fitted: 800140-03-0 (But this is just for ref) Many thanks, Andy.

19 years, 4 months

2
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Quick survey on equipment

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

No CP/M machines, though I think I saw a Z80 softcard in a box of old Apple ][ cards I have lying about, though I know nothing about CP/M as I came from mainframes, minis and military computers directly to Apple. Two ICT 1301 Mainframes, one operational, the other dismantled but complete, offered to UK Science Museum but their new boss has ordered them to stop collecting big computers. The first one was offered several years ago (via the Computer Conservation Society) to Bletchley museum but they had no space for it. Since then I have restored it to an operational state and am now working on getting the peripherals working so that I can read the software and get it onto modern media. Then will work on the rest of the peripherals such as the line printer and online card punch. Manufactured in 1962, acquired late 1970s. Price new about a quarter of a million pounds each. Need 700 square feet floor space each, weigh 5 tons each, consume 13kVA three phase (440V). UK101 single board computer (8k static RAM, mono video output, keyboard, casette tape storage) Two or three Apple ][ europlus. 48K, twin floppy drives, dozens of cards, hopefully including a Microspot serial/parallel card (AKA MicroPeripherals Zappler) which I designed. An Apple /// (probably non operational), maybe two plus a Profile hard drive. An operational Macintosh XL (AKA Lisa 2), plus one which has not been powered up in 5-10 years. Odd Macintoshes, can't remember what, we had a chuck out a while ago and I'm not sure what is left. A Titanium Powerbook, so once a year I can run Civilisation 2 and a few other games, which won't work on Intel Macs. Work machine: MacBook Pro, 2 GHz Intel Core Duo. Roger Holmes Also collect classic cars and hoard all sorts of interesting junk because its easier than selling it (e.g. never sold a car).

19 years, 4 months

6
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SGI hinv...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

There was a comment regarding the SGI "hinv" (hardware inventory) command and other UNIX systems. I've attached inline a "hinv" of my Onyx2 system. As you can see, it gives both hardware information as well as serial and part numbers of all boards in the system. In addition, I've also provided a "gfxinfo" command - which inventories and describes the graphics hardware on the system. There are other "info" commands which describe other system options - but I figured this would be enough to get the idea... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- hinv -m IP31 Board: barcode MJT049 part 030-1523-001 rev C IP31PIMMR12KS Board: barcode MJS498 part 030-1423-002 rev H MODULEID Board: barcode K0010378 part rev IP31 Board: barcode LAM652 part 030-1523-001 rev C 4P1G5_MPLN Board: barcode DAW270 part 013-1839-001 rev E IP31PIMMR12KS Board: barcode LAT574 part 030-1423-002 rev G GE16-4 Board: barcode GMR170 part 030-1398-001 rev B DIVO Board: barcode DDE075 part 030-1046-002 rev H BASEIO Board: barcode GKN285 part 030-0734-002 rev N MIO Board: barcode GJJ660 part 030-0880-003 rev F 4 400 MHZ IP27 Processors CPU: MIPS R12000 Processor Chip Revision: 3.5 FPU: MIPS R12010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 3.5 Main memory size: 3072 Mbytes Instruction cache size: 32 Kbytes Data cache size: 32 Kbytes Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 8 Mbytes Integral SCSI controller 0: Version QL1040B (rev. 2), single ended Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 Disk drive: unit 2 on SCSI controller 0 CDROM: unit 6 on SCSI controller 0 Integral SCSI controller 1: Version QL1040B (rev. 2), single ended IOC3 serial port: tty1 IOC3 serial port: tty2 IOC3 serial port: tty3 IOC3 serial port: tty4 IOC3 parallel port: plp1 Graphics board: InfiniteReality2E Integral Fast Ethernet: ef0, version 1, module 1, slot io1, pci 2 Iris Audio Processor: version RAD revision 7.0, number 1 Origin BASEIO board, module 1 slot 1: Revision 4 DIVO Video: controller 0 unit 0: Input, Output IOC3 external interrupts: 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ /usr/gfx/gfxinfo -v Graphics board 0 is "KONAL" graphics. Managed (":0.0") 1280x1024 Display has 8 channels 4 GEs (of 4), occmask = 0x0f 4MB external BEF ram, 32bit path 2 RM9 boards (of 2) 1/1/0/0 Texture Memory: 64MB/64MB/-/- Large pixel depth 32K cmap, 64K external gamma brd: f61806 3020c06/3020c06/-/- 51bf1002 ge: 0 14832057 24731057 14231057 rm0: 15032057 15431057 4631057 2/2/2/2 4d31057 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2 4938057 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5 rm1: 15032057 15431057 4631057 2/2/2/2 4d31057 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2 4938057 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5 dg: 05532057 5838057 1/1/1/1 5631057 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1 GE: NIC #: 0000.002a.e7eb (family: 0b) Serial #: GMR170 Part #: 030-1398-001 KT: No NIC serial number available. RM0: NIC #: 0000.0025.9d10 (family: 0b) Serial #: HGM627 Part #: 030-1402-001 TM0: NIC #: 0000.002e.44a7 (family: 0b) Serial #: FDS892 Part #: 030-1053-001 RM1: NIC #: 0000.0025.9be5 (family: 0b) Serial #: DEM993 Part #: 030-1402-001 TM1: NIC #: 0000.001d.b564 (family: 0b) Serial #: DEM879 Part #: 030-1053-001 RM2: No NIC serial number available. TM2: No NIC serial number available. RM3: No NIC serial number available. TM3: No NIC serial number available. BP: No NIC serial number available. DG: NIC #: 0000.0021.1bed (family: 0b) Serial #: GPV767 Part #: 030-1087-001 DGOPT:No NIC serial number available. Input Sync: Voltage - Video Level; Source - Internal; Genlocked - False Channel 0: Origin = (0,0) Video Output: 1280 pixels, 1024 lines, 72.00Hz (1280x1024_72.vfo) Video Format Flags: (none) Sync Output(s): Composite sync on Green Composite TTL sync on Aux 0 Using Gamma Map 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

19 years, 4 months

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Lack of 8-bit threads (was Re: Linux question)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> In contrast, the x86 PC has been around for more than 25 years and is > still going strong. So its potential for being a candidate for > future vintage discussions is strong. A lot of that sort of discussion seems to be going on over at the vintage computer forum, looking at the active threads http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/search.php?searchid=81558

19 years, 4 months

1
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Micropolis 1355 ESDI hard drive "sticky bumpers" Fixed!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Micropolis 1355 ESDI hard drive "sticky bumpers" Fixed! > From: "Andy Piercy" <andy.piercy at gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:46:37 +0100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Allison, > >Well hats off to you, it worked! The advantage of being exDEC. I had a lot of stuck rd53s and built up a lab MicroVAX system by fixing a few when noone could get their hands on stuff (budgets). I figured they were officially dead and the worst that could happen is they get deader. I'd scrounge bits and peices and trade RD53s as needed with other groups to get the needed bits. My boss was surprized when a request for node address came back to her for approval for a system under my desk. When she saw the BA123 with 3 RD53s and a RD54 she wanted one, I produced that one in about a week. Getting her the 19" color monitor was tricky though. ;) >I have now fixed the faulty internals of the two faulty Micropolis hard >drives by teasing out the black gooey mass that use to be the head park >rebound bumper / end stops for each drive. > >They had turned into a black sticky mush and as you correctly identified >were holding the heads from un-parking. > >However one of the logic board has also gone faulty so if anyone has a spare >faulty drive they would be willing to part with the hopefully working bottom >logic board please contact me. You will likely have success finding a board or another complete drive (with stickies). Now that you know how to fix them you may find an excess of the drives results. ;) Allison > >Drive type: Micropolis 1355 ESDI 5 1/4 full >height (144 MB) >Part no. 900568-11-4a >Faulty PCB part number: 101942-04-3 B2 >Eprom fitted: 800140-03-0 (But this is just for >ref) > >Many thanks, > >Andy.

19 years, 4 months

3
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Old IBM mainframe crt/monitors

by halarewich＠gmail.com

hi guys I was just remembering back about 20-25 years ago when i was in my 10-15 years old going to work with my step dad who worked at a mining co that had a bid datacenter and was awed at the computer monitors that were hooked up to the mainframe the bulk of the monitors were these great big ones that sat on the desk they were probably 2'wide X 1 1/2'-2'high and about 3' deep the base cume up about 6" then curved out so you could see the main screen like so forgive the drawing ----------------- ! ! ! ! !__ ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ------------- CROSS SECTION I would like to know what motel that was all i remember it was stamped IBM and if there are any pic's arround then a couple years leter i remember we got these lcd plasma type displays about 1985 or 86 about 2.5 feet tall 2.5 feet wide but only bout 1 foot thick and they were neat because they could be 4 small monitors or 2 or 1 big monitor but they only had one color flouresent orange im trying to figure out what these are to tx 4 your time Chris

19 years, 4 months

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Micropolis 1355 ESDI hard drive "sticky bumpers" Fixed!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Micropolis 1355 ESDI hard drive "sticky bumpers" Fixed! > From: Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:12:23 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >--- Andy Piercy <andy.piercy at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Allison, >> >> Well hats off to you, it worked! >> >> I have now fixed the faulty internals of the two >> faulty Micropolis hard >> drives by teasing out the black gooey mass that use >> to be the head park >> rebound bumper / end stops for each drive. >> >> They had turned into a black sticky mush and as you >> correctly identified >> were holding the heads from un-parking. > >When removing this bumper, are you replacing it with >something (say, a stick-on rubber foot) or simply >removing it entirely? Outright removal is the easiest. You hear a clunk when the head returns but I've nver had any that showed adverse side effects from that. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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ISO Syquest SQ306 (on eBay) / Syquest 100

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Can't seem to find a picture of the SQ306 drive so I can identify one if I > ever come across them.. took a while to find a picture from Nov, 82 Byte http://bitsavers.org/pdf/syquest/SQ306.jpg

19 years, 4 months

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Mac Rasterops Drivers

by teoz＠neo.rr.com

Anybody happen to have a Rasterops archive for Mac Nubus cards? I have a few older cards (Mediatime, 24stv, 24si, Acellerator II, etc) and was looking for drivers. These seem to be harder to find then the common Supermac and Radius stuff.

19 years, 4 months

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Micropolis 1355 ESDI hard drive "sticky bumpers" Fixed!

by dm561＠torfree.net

----------Original Message: Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:46:37 +0100 From: "Andy Piercy" <andy.piercy at gmail.com> Subject: Micropolis 1355 ESDI hard drive "sticky bumpers" Fixed! >I have now fixed the faulty internals of the two faulty Micropolis hard drives by teasing out the black gooey mass that use to be the head park rebound bumper / end stops for each drive. >They had turned into a black sticky mush and as you correctly identified were holding the heads from un-parking. >Andy. ----------------------------- I have a 1335 which so far is OK; does it look like this sticky mush could separate and contaminate the heads or can I safely wait until I have this problem (if I do) to open up the drive and remove it? mike

19 years, 4 months

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IRIS Indigo PM2 post-portem

by jvdg＠sparcpark.net

Scott Quinn wrote: > I recently acquired a SGI IRIS Indigo R4k machine that was > nonfunctional. After a bit of troubleshooting I tracked it down to the > PM2 (processor module daughtercard, R4400 + oscillator + 1MB cache), > which has visible damage to two of the cache RAM chips (smoke holes and > cracks). I am trying to trace back the likely sequence of events that > lead to this happening so it doesn't happen again. AFAIK in the R4400SC > the cache memory is attached directly to the R4400 with the exception > of the power leads, and the R4400 has all cache control logic > integrated. The PSU voltages have been checked and are within specs, > with no excessive ripple. > > In my experience, chips do not blow up without an external cause that > drastically increases the current flowing through the chip, however I > also have zero experience with SRAM chips failing in a "spectacular" > manner. Is this possible/likely? The other option seems to be the R4400 > dying and taking the cache with it. Any ideas on where to proceed from > here? The PM2 module is electriacally identical, and mechanically close enough to the modules used in the Indigo2, so if you can score a battered I2 with R4400SC150 module, you can stick that into the Indigo and have the fastest possible configuration of that model. Maybe removing the cache chips will result in a functional PC module, but I never tried that. They are very nice machines. Built like tanks. Even a defunct one serves as a nice example of how workstations *should* be constructed. ,xtG tsooJ

19 years, 4 months

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Heathkit H8's & H9's (was Help to identify a Selectric based terminal)

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

The H-9 was flakey even when it was introduced. It was not a reliable product, and will probably be difficult to get working. Probably bad ICs or, worse, bad IC sockets. Do you have a complete H-8 (or several)? By complete, I mean chassis & CPU, reasonable memory, disk controller, serial I/O card and the "CP/M Card" (a tiny small card, only about 3 inches wide, that allows the computer to run CP/M ... I think that the original name was "extended configuration card" or something like that). In my opinion, the best terminal for old PCs is an old laptop using a terminal program through it's serial port.

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:03:36 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 19 Apr 2007 at 18:00, Allison wrote: > >> Was that Charlie or Ted? I'd like to see the report or erata mostly >> since it would fit nicely in my NEC file. > >I believe my contact was Rich Naro, but I'll have to check my old >correspondence to make sure I'm not hallucinating. Sounds right as he replaced me more or less. Back in 82/83 the Natick operation was merged with EA to become NEC Electronics USA and most of the high level functions went west. I didn't, DEC was more interesting. >> By time the V20 hit the street I was running hand upd780s at 8mhz >> and had at least three s100 crates going. > >When did the Z80H hit the street? Now, you can get a VHDL version >that runs in an FPGA at what, something like 40 MHz? The z80H never got over 20mhz but, the 80S180 (z180) did hit the street at 33mhz. When you consider thats an instruction execution rate around 4mips thats not so bad. The downside is memory has to be under 15ns or one boatload of wait states! There are more flavours of the Z180 than carter has liver pills. There are FPGA cells that run at truly amazing speeds and also beasts like the eZ80 that cut the number of clock cycles needed for speed. The fastest machines I have (z80 based) is 10mhz (no waits) using Z80 CMOS and 12.5mhz running a Z280(version J). The latter screams with the cache and MMU running with 16bit wide zbus. The standard CP/M tools with raw speed and a harddisk makes for a very productive system. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:30:37 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 19 Apr 2007 at 13:07, Allison wrote: > >>> While the OS didn't do that it was easy to have your own FCB(s) >and >> the OS would not limit you. > >....unless you were porting to MP/M, in which case too-ambitious >manipulation of FCBs could come back and bite you, since MP/M did >track file opens True but many applications ran well under it anyway. >> CP/M was a big step up from OSs like NSdos that only did sequential >> allocation and even more limited user interface. > >Sequential or consecutive? Consecutive allocation was not a bad >thing, provided that it allowed for expansion of a file by adding >additional extents. Indeed, it could be much faster than simple >granular allocation when seek time is an issue. I've worked on a >couple of mainframe allocation systems that used consecutive-with- >extension allocation with no particular problems. I routinely run >into them in conversion (e.g. IBM DIsplaywriter). A Smith-Corona >typewriter uses sequential allocation in that each allocation unit >is placed physically later on the disk than the previous one, but not >necessarily adjacent to the preceding one. Sequential and consecutive. However NSdos (like RT11) does not have a way to allocate addional space. For example, in File A,B,C are in place and A needs to be enlarged. Under NSdos you have to copy A to A1, append the data to it and delete A and rename A1 to A. Now if you need the space on the disk that A occupied you must compact the disk. This was particulary nasty if the file was larger than half the disk size as you run out of space. NSdos was a bag and tag file system. >> CPM3 and MPM allowed for 512byte sectors and 32mb max logical drive size. > >You must be looking at MP/M I. The maximum drive size for MP/M II is >512MB using 16K allocation units. The maximum file size, however is >still 8 MB. I was. >> CP/M2 is non multitasking, V3 and MPM which are related (same filesystem >> and bdos calls) it can be an issue. However, the non-multitask status >> of CP/MV2 didn't prevent things like background printing or interrupt >> driven IO though it meant the BIOS implmentor had to do the work. > >Didn't the CP/M SPOOL program simply hook the printer BIOS vector and >install itself below CCP like the XSUB program? It's been a long >time, so it might have been above the CBIOS also. That was one of the few that did that. There was nothing to prevent many apps from doing that. >> Other oddities is there was no MBR or on disk partition tables for >> large drives. The partition info was kept in the DPH/DPB inside the BIOS. > >I suspect that DRI considered that area to be an issue left to the >implementor. We certainly allowed two OS-es to reside on the same >drive by simply implementing our own partition table scheme and >making the hard disk access routines aware of it. MS-DOS scarcely >does anything much more elegant. Back then two OSs on a disk would have been truly extravagant. >> Only required for floppy or the uncommon removable harddisk >> (CDC hawk anyone). > >....or Syquest removables (SQ100) which were around early enough, >albeit after the PC, to find their way onto some Z80 CP/M systems. My point of reference was pre PC. By post PC thre weree enough things changing like the availability of inexpensive (under $1000) hard disks and controllers to be significant. Prior to that (especially pre1980) it was 8" and 14" fixed drives and a few 14" removeables. I still ahve a Syquest270 (with parallelport adaptor) that both works and I have about 15 disks for it. >I seem to recall seeing an OS being advertised in one of the mags in >the late 70's that offered CP/M functional compatibility, but also >featured a hierarchical directory structure. I don't recall the >name, but a friend was all fired up about it. There may have been one but I never saw one in action. The idea of hierarchical directory pre 1980 was pretty radical for a micro system. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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Quick survey on equipment

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Quick survey on equipment > From: "Ade Vickers" <javickers at solutionengineers.com> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:43:18 +0100 > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Dave Dunfield wrote: > >> > Some have questioned the number of people on the list who >> have CP/M systems. >> > >> > Lets do a quick survey >> >> Way too many to list (or even remember), but you can see a >> relatively up to date list (and photos etc) at: > >Damn, I was hoping to have the only Epson PX-8; as far as I know the only >CP/M system to do (micro)cassette tapes. I played with blcok structred microcasette back around 80-81. Also the Coleco adam ram CP/M on casette. There were otehrs but none portable and that was a big deal with the PX8. >I also have an Osborne-1, and a C128 (which I think I have CP/M disks for); >and IIRC used to have a set of CP/M disks for an Acorn Master - or was that >GEM, can't remember now. > >Oh, and I've got a Sharp MZ-80B which I believe will run CP/M. Yes it do. >Shame I've not the foggiest how to use it. I can get Wordstar running on one >of the PX-8s, but only because it's in ROM. I can do DIR and run a program - >does it do anything else? Excellent word processor (WS!). The base system has enough "ramdisk" argumented by plug in roms (two) to be useful for many tasks. If you have one of the wedges that added "ramdisk" its usefulness increases. Mine has the 120k ramdisk wedge and I have the three most useful roms, those being Wordstar, Basic and CP/M utilties. I keep a amateur radio logging datadase on it (written in basic) both to prove usfulness and also because the RFI output is far lower than many PC laptop beasts. It doesn't hurt that the battery life (with good nicads) far exceeds a lot of laptops. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:25:46 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 19 Apr 2007 at 9:48, Allison wrote: > >> >Maybe, but it couldn't run JRT Pascal. AFAIK, the only commercial >> >product that ever used the bizarre coding sequence: >> > >> > LXI SP, PROC-1 >> > CALL PROC >> >> JRT Pascal was Z80 code if memory serves. But LXI SP, value is >> valid as the arithmetic is done at compile time not execution. > >Nope--8080. I've still got the 1.0 disk. One can precede this >sequence with (and I think that JRT did): I have V3 and never had a problem, guess they fixed it. > > LXI H,0 > DAD SP Only way to get the SP on 8080. Liked the Z80 because they fixed that. >to get the old SP value into the HL register pair prior to the LXI >SP. And it is a V20 bug--I remember calling the NEC technical guy >in Natick and getting about 10 words into the report and having him >say "JRT Pascal, right?". If anyone's interested in the V20 errata, >I've still got the stuff. Was that Charlie or Ted? I'd like to see the report or erata mostly since it would fit nicely in my NEC file. >JRT was one of the earlier attempts at "virtual" 8080 code; it >swapped procedures from floppy. Of course, it was miserably slow, >but at something like $30 for a Pascal, it looked like a great deal. >Of course it was buggy as the dickens. I think the oddball calling >sequence was to keep the stack adjacent to the procedure for >subsequent swapping, rather than having to deal with a single stack >that might well overflow without special handling routines, given the >"virtual" nature of JRT Pascal. Doing anything on 8080 that was virtual was slow. V3 was still $30 and slow but it did work. >> In the end running an 8080 (V20) >> when I have Z80 or even fast(6mhz HmosII) 8085s is sort of >> less than interesting. > >Maybe, but you use what you have at your disposal, even if it is an >8080. And most professional apps for CP/M used the 8080 instruction >set initially--only later did a bunch of Z80-specific (e.g. ZCPR) >code come out. I never could understand this--in general, little to >be gained in speed by using Z80 codes. By time the V20 hit the street I was running hand upd780s at 8mhz and had at least three s100 crates going. >FWIW, I still use 22NICE on Win2K. It nicely integrates old CP/M >apps into the Windows environment without having to create virtual >disks or such stuff, so using apps under emulation is no harder than >using native ones. Still have it and use it, interesting tool. Allison

19 years, 4 months

2
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P112 reorders

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I have around five P112 kits left and the question of making more has come up in private email. How many of you would be interested in acquiring one of these CP/M computer kits? See http://frotz.homeunix.org/ for a full description and pics. I'm still in the middle of things that prevent me from doing any shipping and filling baggies with passives, so I'm not selling any of the kits I still have for the time being. That's also why I haven't done anything with the 8-inch drives. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 4 months

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Quick survey on equipment

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:57:43 +1000 > From: Doug Jackson <doug at stillhq.com> > Subject: Quick survey on equipment > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <46257B17.3080905 at stillhq.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Some have questioned the number of people on the list who > have CP/M systems. > > Lets do a quick survey - I'll start first! > > Pulsar Little Big Board - z80 CP/M 2.2 > Bondewll 2 - z80 - CP/M 2.2 > > On the list of non CP/M systems: > > 3 x Apple II 5.25" disk systems > 7 x Apple Mac systems (various) > > TRS-80 Model 1, 4, 4P > 2 x Disk Smith System 80 > 1 Exidy Sourcerer > > 1 Energy Control Rockwell 65F11 (forth) system > 1 Homebrew 65F12 system > > Amstrad CPC464 > > TI99/4A - No disk system though :-( > > Bucketloads of HP & TI Calculators > > No DEC Equipment - So can't help there (But I do have a SBC6120 PDP8 > emulator.) > > > Doug > Without venturing into the storage room: Kaypro 2, II (2), 4 and 10 Osborne OCC-I, Executive PMC Micromate (2) Heathkit H89 (2) Morrow MD11 Seequa Chameleon Sony SMC-70 Televideo TS-802, TS-803 HP-87 (with CP/M module)

19 years, 4 months

1
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Disk Drive....Repair (?)

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

A nightmare is up on youtube. At least it hits me that way, as a full time disk person. Billy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUQzGIqp4t8

19 years, 4 months

4
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SCSI-1 spec

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I collected some SCSI specs from the internet before start the MSCPSCSI > project. any new news on that?

19 years, 4 months

3
4
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Garriott and others to donate to UT game archive

by g＠kurico.com

That would be UT as in the University of Texas, Austin. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/04/19/19archive.ht… George

19 years, 4 months

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WH-27 Problems (was RE: Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's)

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: From: "Robert Armstrong" <bob at jfcl.com> Subject: WH-27 Problems (was RE: Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's) .... In extended mode the drive could handle 512K diskettes ... So the bottom line is that if you want to run standard RT-11 on the H-11, you have to set the switch to RX-01 mode and you have the equivalent of an RX01 drive. No double density ... ************* I don't think that's correct; the controller in the H-27 (WH-27) is a Z-80 with a Western Digital 1771. The 1771 is most definitely single density only. It's not capable of double density.

19 years, 4 months

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Vintage Computing places and surplus stores in L.A. Long Beach Area ?

by mcwood＠nefkom.net

Hello Folks, I'm on a business trip to Long Beach, CA next week and would like to know whether someone could recommend me any vintage stores or other places in that area I should visit in my spare time. I mostly interested in DEC, CDC and Lispmachines or newer stuff like Suns or similar as well. Sadly, there no time for me to visit the CHM. Best Regards, Marc Holz

19 years, 4 months

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Looking for: Any Commodore gear (not reselling or anything nefarious)

by jplist2007＠kiwigeek.com

Greetings Geeks & Geekettes; I'm looking for a small pile of Commodore gear for a project a friend of mine and I are putting together for this year's Chicago Commodore Expo (which means a deadline of August or so). I'm after: Commodore 64s (any case style) Commodore 128s (pref. not the beefy DCRs to save on shipping) Disk drives (any type) Power bricks for the above (drives & machines) Associated cabling Game carts (see below) All of the above will be treated with respect and neither dismantled (unless it was already broken, although I'd very much prefer working gear) nor sold on, and will be part of a unique project which you'll all be detailed on when the time looms near (Ooooo, hush, hush, exciting isn't it?). Except the game carts - which I'm cannabalising for their connectors, which seem to be darned expensive on their own - so if you have broken carts, even better! I'd also like to find a monitor, as my own one is back in New Zealand and out of reach right now, and for the life of me I can't seem to find either my DIN->composite cables nor any of the blasted RF boxes that seem to accumulate in every corner _until_ you're looking for one. I'm looking for people who are willing to let this go for shipping only (I'm not exactly made of money, but is anyone?) on the guarantee that there will be no ignominious end to the equipment and the knowledge that it will be used for a very cool multi-CPU project. I'm based in the US (50441), by the way, and I'll probably keep my shipping costs down by only taking up offers by US based people, but please let me know. Thank you all! JP Hindin

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:48:40 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 19 Apr 2007 at 3:20, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > >> How does it differ? Aren't all drivers just fundamentally open, close, >> read, write and ioctl? > >Well, CP/M 2.2 have no "open" and "close" function, just read and >write--single character for character devices and a single 128 byte >block for mass storage. The closest thing to ioctl is the "select >unit", "set track" and "set sector" entry points. Yes. >While BDOS >supports open and close functions, it's entirely up to the user to >track open files--the BDOS doesn't contain so much as a list of open >files. Early MS-DOS operated the same way--using FCBs for file I/O >like CP/M. While the OS didn't do that it was easy to have your own FCB(s) and the OS would not limit you. CP/M was a big step up from OSs like NSdos that only did sequential allocation and even more limited user interface. >Directories are, of course, flat, though you could >qualify entries with a "User area" field that was not considered to >be part of the filename. Allocation information is kept with each >directory name entry; when a file got large enough, another directory >"extent" was allocated. There was a very firm upper limit >(implementation defined) on the number of files one could have on a >volume. IIRC, the upper limit on disk storage was about 8 MB per >volume. The limit is for CP/M2 were 65535addressable sectors * 128bytes =8mb it would be higher if the math didn't truncate at 16bits. The improved BDOSs (P2DOS and friends) fixed the math and it was then: 65535 * allocation block size (up to 32k) =2gb CPM3 and MPM allowed for 512byte sectors and 32mb max logical drive size. >One needn't worry about reentrancy, multiple character/block requests >or interrupts. Everything's done with a jump vector table; since >CP/M is non-multitasking, management of driver data is simple. CP/M2 is non multitasking, V3 and MPM which are related (same filesystem and bdos calls) it can be an issue. However, the non-multitask status of CP/MV2 didn't prevent things like background printing or interrupt driven IO though it meant the BIOS implmentor had to do the work. One nasty with a flat file system and allocation scheme is with an 8mb drive and directory sized for say 2048 entries a directory search on a moderately full disk was SLOW. It was a sequential search. >If you were dealing with disks with sector sizes larger than 128 >bytes, some write-behind, read-ahead logic was unavoidable, but even >there, the BDOS would help out by signifying if the read was for a >directory block or the write was for a newly-allocated block. If >you had sufficient RAM to do full track reads and writes, you could >often improve the speed of CP/M I/O significantly. IDE helps as it has on drive buffering/cache and a few floppy and harddisk controllers were buffered and did deblocking in hardware. One floppy controler that could do this was the JADE DoubleD. Other oddities is there was no MBR or on disk partition tables for large drives. The partition info was kept in the DPH/DPB inside the BIOS. >Disk volume tracking was done using a simple "checksum" on a >installation-defined number of directory entries. If a disk was >changed unexpectedly, the BDOS responded by setting its status to >Read-Only and displaying an error. Only required for floppy or the uncommon removable harddisk (CDC hawk anyone). >Later versions of CP/M supported multi-block I/O and file date and >time stamps. They did significantly advancement CP/M as it allowed existing program base to live on. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: Jim Battle <frustum at pacbell.net> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:19:48 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chuck Guzis wrote: >> ... And most professional apps for CP/M used the 8080 instruction >> set initially--only later did a bunch of Z80-specific (e.g. ZCPR) >> code come out. I never could understand this--in general, little to >> be gained in speed by using Z80 codes. > >I thought the main motivation was footprint, not speed. The relative >jumps save a byte each time they are used, and djnz saved two. the Z80 instruction set not only had the relative jump, and DJNZ but also small fixes like the the asymetric problem of you could load the SP but in 8080 you had to burn a register to get the SP contents. The block moves and bit tests are worthwhile too. Where the Z80 gained speed was 4mhz and faster (best 8080 hit was 3) and a much more sophisticated interrupt capability. That and those index registers helped solve those times when 8080 needed more registers to play with pointers without twisty code. >One of the most wasteful features in the 8080 instruction set, I >thought, were the 8 conditional calls and 8 conditional returns. I >would have much rather they had only unconditional call and >unconditional return only and used those 16 opcodes for something more >useful. Sure, they were useful once in a while, but not so often that >they should use up 6% of the single byte opcode space. ;) 8080 was what it was and compare to the 8008 a huge improvement. What was more interesting to me at that time was to 6800 and 6502 which were in many ways simpler yet better by a differt route. One of the oddities of most cpus is 90% of the code is done with a small portion of the instrucion set. the remaining 10% of code may use less than 50% of the unused to that point instructions. There are always a few that are nearly never used. One example of a 8080 (and 8085 and z80 usage) is ORA A with in one assembler I renamed to SEF (set flags). The 8080 family is loaded with instructions like that. At the other extreme.. 8085 and z80 "unsupported" instructions that every chip maker insures are there and behave the same even if not specified. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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WH-27 Problems (was RE: Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: WH-27 Problems (was RE: Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's) > From: "Barry Watzman" <Watzman at neo.rr.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:54:42 -0400 > To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >Re: > >From: "Robert Armstrong" <bob at jfcl.com> >Subject: WH-27 Problems (was RE: Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's) > >..... > > In extended mode the drive could handle 512K diskettes ... So the bottom >line is that if you want to run standard RT-11 on the H-11, you have to set >the switch to RX-01 mode and you have the equivalent of an RX01 drive. No >double density ... > >************* > >I don't think that's correct; the controller in the H-27 (WH-27) is a Z-80 >with a Western Digital 1771. The 1771 is most definitely single density >only. It's not capable of double density. Barry is correct. I know the beastie well enough and single density was it's thing. However there was a third party version on the market that could do DD (but not DEC RX02) and was modeled like the H27. there wer others in the PDP-11 market that did compatable rx02 DD (two sided) such as the DSD880 and a few others. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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FA: SYM Model 1 Computer

by jefftnc＠compascable.net

Hi all, Cutting back on my collection... Synertek SYM Model 1, untested, in great physical shape. http://tinyurl.com/ysf2s2 USA only...sorry...Post Office issues... Thanks for looking. JT

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:35:31 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 18 Apr 2007 at 17:17, Allison wrote: > >>> I'd do the bios development on one of the existing long list of >systems. >> All of my listed systems work especially the CP/M hardware. > >Not me--I do it under emulation on a nice speedy windoze system. >It's amazing how fast MAC will munch code running on a software >emulator. :) I do have Myz80 and Dave Dunfeilds NS Horizon emulator as tools for when I'm purely messing with code. But when I have a hefty 10mhz z80 S100 crate next to the PC with solid tools and a good programmer in it why mess with a PC. >> Qualifies as an 8080! With a bunch of Pc hardware to impair it. ;) > >Maybe, but ti couldn't run JRT Pascal. AFAIK, the only commercial >product that ever used the bizarre coding sequence: > > LXI SP, PROC-1 > CALL PROC JRT Pascal was Z80 code if memory serves. But LXI SP, value is valid as the arithmetic is done at compile time not execution. Loading a stack address prior to a call is ok if you need to recover the stack content (for recursion or some such) but I'd expect prior code to save/restore the stack or the routine making the call will return to nowhere. I've seen a lot of code that mucks with the stack in the past and it's ok if you remember your return addresses are on that pile! I've not encounterd this problem with V20. That sequence is not so strange to me. though I've not used JRT Pascal (or many other high level) tools on a V20 because I haven't found that a V20 XT PC to be all that great compared to a 4mhz z80. I have been meaning to try the Tandy 1000HX which has a V20 and see if thats better. In the end running an 8080 (V20) when I have Z80 or even fast(6mhz HmosII) 8085s is sort of less than interesting. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:40:54 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> just tell it what particular ICs you're using and at what port addresses, and >> away it goes? Or was it more complex than that, and realistically you'd have >> to write your own comms / FDC driver which exposed some defined interface to >> CP/M itself? > >You had to write something called a CBIOS (Customised Basic Input Output >System IIRC). This was a set of routines to handle terminal I/O (and >printer, paper tape I/O if you wanted that), disk block read/write, and >so on. There's a manual giving the specs for these routines, how to get >CP/M onto the target machine, and so on. The original CP/M distibution >came with the source for a CBIOS for the Intel MDS800 (IIRC)m which you >could use as a starting point > >I've never done it, but it ;ooks like quite a 'fun' thing to do for >suitable values of 'fun'. Of course if you bought a packaged machine to >run CP/M it came with a CBIOS written for that machine. And alas you >rarely got the soruce of that :-( > >-tony Trust me haveing done it more tha a few times it was fun or at least interesting. You did miss the third case, packaged machine and time for upgrade. In that case sometime the existing BIOS was needed or not. Having sone more than a few random integrations (S100 crates) usually you didn't have a explict bios to match but did have similar or at least a pattern. Often during S100 upgrades here the FDC was the item being upgraded or outright replaced it was easier to start from scratch and build in features the earlier bios neglected like buffered IO for serial lines or better error messages. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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Bondwell 2 CP/M laptop available

by frustum＠pacbell.net

I received an email asking if I was interested in a Bondwell 2 laptop. You can learn a little bit more about it from one of my web pages: http://www.thebattles.net/bondwell/bondwell.html It has a 640x200 bitmapped LCD display (capable of displaying 80x25 text), a 4 MHz Z80, integral floppy drive. The downsides are that it has a pair of heavy sealed lead acid batteries (I replaced the two 6v bricks in mine with a single 12v brick; as I recall it cost $15 or so), and that scrolling text is painful since the text is just drawn as bitmapped graphics. I don't want another one, so I offered to pass along his contact information. He is in Redwood City, CA (just south of san francisco), but it seems he is willing to ship; ask him to be sure. When I asked about price, he said: "SURE, GO AHEAD AND LIST IT, I WOULD MUCH APPRECIATE. I DON'T WANT ALOT OF MONEY, I'M JUST LOOKING FOR A GOOD HOME FOR IT." I'll obscure the email address to prevent harvesting. Robert is his name. Reply to: AcopsBisCtops @ yaDhoo . comE Remove the capital letters and spaces.

19 years, 4 months

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Disk Drive....Repair (?)

by cheri-post＠web.de

Hi guys, as myself being a harddrive collector, this video really hurts alot ! Such clips should be forbidden... Regards, Pierre > > A nightmare is up on youtube. At least it hits me that way, as a full time > disk person. > > > > Billy > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUQzGIqp4t8 > > _______________________________________________________________ SMS schreiben mit WEB.DE FreeMail - einfach, schnell und kostenguenstig. Jetzt gleich testen! http://f.web.de/?mc=021192

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: Jeffrey Armstrong <jba at sdf.lonestar.org> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:08:11 +0000 (UTC) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > >>> > >>> >Subject: CP/M survey >>> > From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> >>> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:09:45 -0500 >>> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >>> > >>> >DEC Rainbow (8087, 832k (max for -A model), but >>> that's irrelevant to CP/M-80). >>> >>> Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it >>> was a dual CPU (has a z80). >>> >>> Allison >> >> Could it access more then 64k under CP/M-80? Don't >> you mean CP/M-86? Not to nit pick... >> I don't know about specific Rainbow revisions, but I >>was under the impression the 'bow could go up to 896k. >>Maybe I'm thinking of the Tandy 2000 via an 3rd party upgrade. > >I think Mark was trying to say that an 8-bit CP/M program on the Rainbow >can only access 64k RAM, which is true, under Rainbow CP/M-86/80. A >16-bit program could access all of the Rainbow's system RAM under CP/M. Of course and I referred to that. What I avoid trying to do was say, hey it's a Z80 and 8bitters like 8080 and Z80 without only address 64k. Granted you can hang bank hardware on them and extend but the addressing is still only 64k. >And he's also right about the memory. A 100A maxed out at 832k, while a >100B/100+ maxed out at 896k. This is because 100A models shipped with >128k on the motherboard, while 100B/100+ models shipped with 192k. So >when a maxed-out ram expansion card was installed, the 100A still had 64k >less than an equivalent 100B/100+. > >One interesting thing about 16-bit programs on CP/M-86/80 on the Rainbow >was that some were confused by too much RAM. The most notable examples >are all the Rainbow ports of Infocom adventures; they all complain about >"not enough memory" if you have more than 512k or something like that. Unlike PCs were 640k was all there was. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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PC-MOS?

by daviderhart＠oldzonian.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:02 PM > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: PC-MOS? > > I was looking for something else and ran across a two-binder set of > something called "PC-MOS" by The Software Link, circa 1992. I opened > the shrinkwrap on the nstallation manual and the thing looks like > it's a multi-user version of MS-DOS, talking to terminals. I > appear to have a 5 user version. > > Anyone familiar with this animal? The version is 4.2. > > Cheers, > Chuck Sounds like the PC-MOS I used in the mid-80's to build a multi-user system using an IBM PC/AT with an expansion box that had one CGA card per user. The expansion box had special cables for monitor and keyboard (thick & bulky). This let me run DBase III, Wordstar 2000, etc. in an office for up to eight stations. Each station appeared to have the PC/AT to itself. Worked really well. I wonder if I was using the same PC-MOS but a very early version. david.

19 years, 4 months

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errors in disk images (was Kapro 10 format.com)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I have download the kaypro disks > from dave's site and the system disk 2 is really multiplan. It is REALLY REALLY important that you tell Dave, or other archivists when errors are found in disc images. One of the most difficult things to do is to verify that a distribution disc still contains good copies of what it claims to on the label.

19 years, 4 months

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WH-27 Problems (was RE: Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: WH-27 Problems (was RE: Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's) > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:31:25 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 4/19/07, Robert Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote: >> The [W]H-27 drives were both the best and the most disappointing part of >> the H-11 system... > >> Yes, most people would not be impressed by a drive that can format >> diskettes, but real DEC RX01/2 users never knew this joy. > >And, except for Rainbow uses, most RX50 users never knew this joy, either. Other than Robin (Vt180), Rainbow and Vaxmate (sorta PC) formatting a disk was unheard of. The first vax widely available that could format it's hard disk or a floppy was the Microvax-2000 without resorting to diagnotic software kits (MDM for VAX or XXDP for PDP11). >> So the bottom line is that if you want to run standard RT-11 on the H-11, >> you have to set the switch to RX-01 mode and you have the equivalent of an >> RX01 drive. No double density, and no formatting. >Perhaps, but, then again, with a "custom" OS, there might have been >some check somewhere in the Monitor to enforce compliance. It will be >interesting to take apart the OS and see where the differences lie. >One could then, presumably, build a patch kit to "transform" a genuine >RT-11 kit into HT-11, as folks already do with various versions of >Infocom adventures (i.e. - *you* get a legitimate copy of the game >file, then acquire and apply patches to it to turn it into the >different release versions of the game. Since the patches are based >on a known quantity and aren't themselves the game, they are made >freely available) It was simpler than that. It was an old version of RT11 and from that version to current the driver structure apparently is different enough to not work. However if you used drivers from V2.x HT11 was happy. >I have never seen one, but another list member has offered to send me >some H-11 media. Once I get things working, I'll see about archiving >it. I'd have to dig as I have media and tu58 tape that overlaps that timeframe and OS use. Not anytime soon as I'm ripping the room apart to build a new desk in. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:20:51 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Dave McGuire wrote: >> On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:43 PM, Jules Richardson wrote: >>> Interesting; did CP/M ship with a range of UART and FDC drivers then, >>> so you just tell it what particular ICs you're using and at what port >>> addresses, and away it goes? Or was it more complex than that, and >>> realistically you'd have to write your own comms / FDC driver which >>> exposed some defined interface to CP/M itself? >> >> The CP/M distribution, as shipped only boots & runs on one particular >> type of machine: an Intel MDS-800 development system. If you (or a >> computer manufacturer, say Kaypro for example) wanted your machine to >> run CP/M, and it wasn't exactly like the MDS-800 in terms of what I/O >> chips were used and at what addresses, you had to write the drivers to >> support your hardware. These drivers form the BIOS. CP/M was shipped >> with the intention that users would write their own BIOS code to support >> their own systems. >> >> In truth it is really not all that difficult. The BIOS interface is >> very simple and well-defined. Under the tutelage of an experienced >> mentor, I was writing BIOS code on my Imsai when I was about fourteen. >> It's nothing like the complexity of, say, a device driver system for an >> implementation of UNIX. > >How does it differ? Aren't all drivers just fundamentally open, close, >read, write and ioctl? Not under CP/M. this is the bios call entry table. ; ; perform following functions ; boot cold start ; wboot warm start (save i/o byte) ; (boot and wboot are the same for mds) ; const console status ; reg-a = 00 if no character ready ; reg-a = ff if character ready ; conin console character in (result in reg-a) ; conout console character out (char in reg-c) ; list list out (char in reg-c) ; punch punch out (char in reg-c) ; reader paper tape reader in (result to reg-a) ; home move to track 00 ; ; (the following calls set-up the io parameter block for the ; mds, which is used to perform subsequent reads and writes) ; seldsk select disk given by reg-c (0,1,2...) ; settrk set track address (0,...76) for subsequent read/write ; setsec set sector address (1,...,26) for subsequent read/write ; setdma set subsequent dma address (initially 80h) ; ; (read and write assume previous calls to set up the io parameters) ; read read track/sector to preset dma address ; write write track/sector from preset dma address ; ; jump vector for indiviual routines jmp boot wboote: jmp wboot jmp const jmp conin jmp conout jmp list jmp punch jmp reader jmp home jmp seldsk jmp settrk jmp setsec jmp setdma jmp read jmp write jmp listst ;list status jmp sectran ; The relevent ones for char IO are conin, conout, constat, list, listst, punch, reader. Disk or any block addressable device is seldsk, settrk, setsec, setdma, read, write and sectran. While the names are descriptive they do not adaquately tell you what the task is. For example SELDSK selects a disk and to do that was do several things like save the number of the drive to be used and return a pointer to a table (DPH or disk parameter table) of addresses of information and scratch areas needed for that disk. One very important address in that table is the DPblock which actually descibes the size, CHS organization and allocation block size of the reference drive. The BDOS uses these to compute the calls to seltrk(set track) and selsec(set sector) that will be used for reading or writing. These are in unix terms the very rawest level device calls. What CP/M is/does is provice three major functions. CCP, console command processor and simple monitor that is the user interface. BDOS, this does "high level" stuff like open a file, get a char, put a char put a char to list device and other filesystem and IO sundries. BIOS, this is the layer that translates a standard set of calls from the BDOS to perform things that are very hardware specific. Modern term is hardware abstraction layer. The bios tried to make the various different disk controllers and connected disks and serial/parallel devices looks like very standardized but elementary IO. What you call a driver in *nix is the BDOS level calls in CP/M for equivilent level of functionality. included is the BDOS command dispatch table from CP/M2 (8080): ; ; command dispatch table DISTBL: DEFW WBOOTF ; 0: System reset DEFW REDCON ; 1: Console input DEFW WRTCON ; 2: Console output DEFW XRQ ; 3: Reader input DEFW XRQ ; 4: Punch output DEFW LISTF ; 5: List output DEFW DIRTIO ; 6: Direct console I/O DEFW GETIOB ; 7: Get I/O Byte DEFW PUTIOB ; 8: Set I/O Byte DEFW PRNBUF ; 9: Print string DEFW REDBUF ; 10: Read console buffer DEFW GCSTAT ; 11: Get console status DEFW GETVER ; 12: Return version number DEFW RESET ; 13: Reset disk system DEFW LOGIN ; 14: Select disk DEFW OPEN ; 15: Open file DEFW CLOSE ; 16: Close file DEFW SEAR1 ; 17: Search for first DEFW SEARN ; 18: Search for next DEFW DELETE ; 19: Delete file DEFW READ ; 20: Read sequential DEFW WRITE ; 21: Write sequential DEFW CREATE ; 22: Make file DEFW RENAME ; 23: Rename file DEFW GLOGIN ; 24: Return login vector DEFW GETDRV ; 25: Return current disk DEFW DMASET ; 26: Set DMA address DEFW GALLOC ; 27: Get addr (alloc) DEFW MAKRO ; 28: Write protect disk DEFW GROVEC ; 29: Get R/O vector DEFW SETATT ; 30: Set file attributes DEFW GETPAR ; 31: Get addr (disk parms) DEFW MODUSR ; 32: Set/Get user code DEFW REDRND ; 33: Read random DEFW WRTRND ; 34: Write random DEFW FILSIZ ; 35: Compute file size DEFW SETRND ; 36: Set random record DEFW RESDRV ; 37: Reset drive DEFW XRQ ; 38: Undefined - go back DEFW XRQ ; 39: Undefined - go back DEFW ZERRND ; 40: Fill random file w/ zeros ; To wrap up: The cpm prompt A:>edit fred.txt causes the CCP to do this>> call bdos open and see if edit exists, if it does it does several read sequential andd loads the read file startin at 100h in memory and jumps to it. *runs edit* That program calls the bdos open to see if fred.txt exits, if yes it loads it's buffer(s) as needed with further bdos calls. IF not then it may create a file entry and allocate a block to it for future storage use. Of course the bdos makes a pile of calls to gets and put characters, check the console device for any keys pressed and outputting characters as well as disk related IO. Very un *nix like. Likely more than anyone wanted to know but while CP/M is pervasive not everyone is familiar or familiar to the code level. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by jba＠sdf.lonestar.org

>> > >> >Subject: CP/M survey >> > From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> >> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:09:45 -0500 >> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> > >> >DEC Rainbow (8087, 832k (max for -A model), but >> that's irrelevant to CP/M-80). >> >> Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it >> was a dual CPU (has a z80). >> >> Allison > > Could it access more then 64k under CP/M-80? Don't > you mean CP/M-86? Not to nit pick... > I don't know about specific Rainbow revisions, but I >was under the impression the 'bow could go up to 896k. >Maybe I'm thinking of the Tandy 2000 via an 3rd party upgrade. I think Mark was trying to say that an 8-bit CP/M program on the Rainbow can only access 64k RAM, which is true, under Rainbow CP/M-86/80. A 16-bit program could access all of the Rainbow's system RAM under CP/M. And he's also right about the memory. A 100A maxed out at 832k, while a 100B/100+ maxed out at 896k. This is because 100A models shipped with 128k on the motherboard, while 100B/100+ models shipped with 192k. So when a maxed-out ram expansion card was installed, the 100A still had 64k less than an equivalent 100B/100+. One interesting thing about 16-bit programs on CP/M-86/80 on the Rainbow was that some were confused by too much RAM. The most notable examples are all the Rainbow ports of Infocom adventures; they all complain about "not enough memory" if you have more than 512k or something like that. Jeff Armstrong jba at sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >--- Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> > >> >Subject: CP/M survey >> > From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> >> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:09:45 -0500 >> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> > >> >DEC Rainbow (8087, 832k (max for -A model), but >> that's irrelevant to CP/M-80). >> >> Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it >> was a dual CPU (has a z80). >> >> Allison > > Could it access more then 64k under CP/M-80? Don't >you mean CP/M-86? Not to nit pick... No. However there was software to use the 8088 and the bulk ram as a ramdisk. CP/M80 (other than V3) didnt care there was more than 64k, Applications that ran under it (mutiplan, Dbase, others) didn't care there was more than 64k (z80 address space) as they were all written back when 64k was a BIG system and MMUs were uncommon. > I don't know about specific Rainbow revisions, but I >was under the impression the 'bow could go up to 896k. >Maybe I'm thinking of the Tandy 2000 via an 3rd party upgrade. The Rainbow was one of the few that could beat the 640k limits. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by dm561＠torfree.net

--------------- Original Message: Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:28:14 -0700 From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> Subject: Re: CP/M survey Just because I don't think it's been mentioned: Vector Graphic MZ (or are we not distinguishing between various S100 boxes..?) Given to me a few years ago but really haven't done much with it other than to power it up, boot CP/M from the solitary disk it came with and see that it will load & run BASIC from the disk. Seems to be a well-built S100 box, but with hard-sectored floppy drives and a 'unique' SSI/MSI disk controller. Also came with a 'really dumb' terminal: just the monitor and keyboard in a terminal case and all the terminal smarts on an S100 card back in the processor. ------------ Reply: Aw, and I was just going to mention my MZ (although mine uses a normal terminal). Also runs MDOS. Also several Cromemcos (Sys 1, Sys 3, CS-300, CS-420). Also run CDOS & Cromix. While on the subject of Cromemco and CP/M, does anyone have a late version of CP/M (i.e. 2.2 or later) running on a Cromemco and using a hard disk (IMI or ST412)? mike

19 years, 4 months

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Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's

by bob＠jfcl.com

>Ethan Dicks [ethan.dicks at gmail.com] wrote: >[W]H-27 problems... >I can get the system to read in the boot sector from the floppy, >but it hangs about the time RT-11 is running far enough to >turn the interrupts on. Dumb question - you _do_ have the RX-01/Extended switch set to RX-01, right? Extended mode isn't DEC compatible and the RT11 driver won't work with it. Bob

19 years, 4 months

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Looking for sparcbook/RDI powerlite/etc

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Hi, Looking for any sparc based laptop (eg sparcbook, powerlite/etc). Anything considered? Running out of space - so need to condense my sparc's down a bit :) Cheers Ian __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 4 months

1
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MicroVAX I back panel with KDJ11-B?

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

I seem to have my PDP-11 system running pretty well although it is still using a borrowed RX33 drive from a DECmate III+. I'm now looking to assemble it into a decent looking box. I'm using a BA23 that started life as a MicroVAX I and so it has a back panel from an MVI. Can I use the module labeled "FUNCT SEL/SLU MODULE" from the MVI with the KDJ11-B processor? This is the module that has a rotary switch for selecting the baud rate and a jack to plug the console into along with a switch to control the power up mode and a display to show the CPU status. Will the MVII panel work with the KDJ11-B processor? Also, does anyone have a PDP-11 badge for the front of the machine that I can use to replace the one that says MicroVAX I? Thanks! David

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:43:45 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chuck Guzis wrote: >> On 18 Apr 2007 at 12:28, Jules Richardson wrote: >> >>> I doubt there's any shortage of CP/M capable hardware owned by people on the >>> list - there's just a shortage of CP/M "hardcore" knowledge, because the >>> systems don't get used often enough for people to remember the real nuts and >>> bolts. >> >> ...and how many of us could assemble a CP/M capable machine from >> what's in our junkbox? Really, for a functional system, you'd need a >> x80-capable processor, some RAM, a UART (if it's not already on the >> processor chip) and an FDC (a WD1770/1772 will do just fine)--and a >> bit of PROM to get it booted. > >Interesting; did CP/M ship with a range of UART and FDC drivers then, so you >just tell it what particular ICs you're using and at what port addresses, and >away it goes? Or was it more complex than that, and realistically you'd have >to write your own comms / FDC driver which exposed some defined interface to >CP/M itself? No. The bios was the interface between CP/M core and the hardware and it was hardware specific. So if you created a new system with new hardware you needed a new bios. CP/M bios writing once understood was fairly reasonable task. >> What there's not a lot of knowledge for are the CP/M "add-ons" such >> as Display Manager and Access Manager and the networking (was it >> CP/Net or something like that?). > >Hmm, one of my Research Machines (RML) systems has the networking add-ons; I >think they called their implementation Z-net. Clients have enough ROM-resident >code to invoke some form of network boot from the server - what I'm not sure >is whether the OS image transfer is part of core "network aware CP/M" or >whether that's a Research Machines extension (with the core stuff only really >providing network-aware file services). > >The manuals are rather buried at the moment, but I seem to recall that they >weren't exactly big on details anyway (RML were great at producing hardware >documentation, but not so hot at writing down how the software side worked) Unfortunatly that was common in smaller companies. There were those that thought some aspect of their system should be "secret" to prevent copying. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CP/M survey > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:51:01 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 18 Apr 2007 at 12:28, Jules Richardson wrote: > >> I doubt there's any shortage of CP/M capable hardware owned by people on the >> list - there's just a shortage of CP/M "hardcore" knowledge, because the >> systems don't get used often enough for people to remember the real nuts and >> bolts. > >....and how many of us could assemble a CP/M capable machine from >what's in our junkbox? Really, for a functional system, you'd need a >x80-capable processor, some RAM, a UART (if it's not already on the >processor chip) and an FDC (a WD1770/1772 will do just fine)--and a >bit of PROM to get it booted. I could do it in hearbeat, and have. I'd do the bios development on one of the existing long list of systems. All of my listed systems work especially the CP/M hardware. >At least that would be the case for CP/M 2.2. CP/M 3.0 (aka CP/M >Plus) is a bit more of a problem, as it involves support for things >such as time-of-day and bank-switching. The same goes for MP/M, >which also requires a timer interrupt. They will run on a minimal system but somethings will require the timer. >What there's not a lot of knowledge for are the CP/M "add-ons" such >as Display Manager and Access Manager and the networking (was it >CP/Net or something like that?). CPNet was a BDOSs that had complementary functions such that it would be a good client to MPM and it didn't really specify the physical layer (could be shared bus, serial or whatever). >I once redid a ROM set for an IBM PC so it would boot CP/M 80 when >equipped with a V20 CPU. I/O was handled in x88 mode. Since the V20 >supported the 8080 instruction set, did this qualify as a emulator or >not? Qualifies as an 8080! With a bunch of Pc hardware to impair it. ;) Allison

19 years, 4 months

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CP/M survey

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: CP/M survey > From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:09:45 -0500 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >DEC Rainbow (8087, 832k (max for -A model), but that's irrelevant to CP/M-80). Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it was a dual CPU (has a z80). Allison

19 years, 4 months

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Altos 886

by rescue＠hawkmountain.net

I have an Altos 886... have had it for some time... unfortunately the hd doesn't access I'm looking for the diag? disk (with low level formatter) and OS floppies. Back when I got it, Acer referred me to a company supporting the old boxes. When they quoted me for a set of OS disks, I laughed at them (in my head). Now I'm wishing I had paid the money... but I didn't deem it worth while for a hobby/toy machine at the time... Now, all the companies that supported this stuff (that Acer has info on) are either out of business or haven't supported those boxes in ages (and have since disposed of all the material). I did find someone on another mailing list I am on who had one of these and the disks (and was fairly local to me), but before we ever could close the loop on any of this... his e-mail address (work addr) started bouncing as not a valid address... and he appears to have never rejoined that list with any other address..... (2nd miss on getting an OS for this old box). So.... anyone got an OS and/or diag diskette(s) for an Altos 886 ? (My best research so far seems to indicate that this box has a Xenix unique to itself (886 model only), and last ran Xenix 3.2f ?) Thanks, -- Curt

19 years, 4 months

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ATR8000

by rescue＠hawkmountain.net

Since CP/M machine discussion came up... I have an ATR8000. In addition, it has a (forgot brand) board that goes between the cpu and the mainboard and gives it a SASI ? interface. I also have a Xebec bridgeboard (S1410?) to then convert that to MFM. The only thing I didn't get was the MFM drive (it had long since be recycled by the previous owner into a PC). What I never was able to figure out was how to low level format the HD ! I don't know that I have the formatter. (Either that or it is there and I simply don't know how to use it). I would love it if someone could fill in that long outstanding blank for me... Also, any idea if a SCSI drive could be hooked up in lieu of the Xebec and MFM drive ? I know SASI and SCSI1 are close... but I don't dare do this till I know it will work (don't want to toast the hardware). -- Curt

19 years, 4 months

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TONIGHT: 5.25" or 8" floppy disk urgently needed in Austin, TX

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I got a call from Lucy Frost of Granite House (a video production company) in Austin just now. She's desperately in need of a 5.25" or 8" floppy disk for a video shoot they are doing tonight. They are doing a spoof infomercial for a client around the Btrieve software product. Yes, that Btrieve...it's still being published by a company called Pervasive Software. Anyway, if you can help (Jim Battle?) then please contact her directly: Lucy Frost 512/844-2520 cell 512/481-1300 office lucy at granitehouse.com She tells me they Buda to Roundrock is her vicinity. She knows about the Goodwill Computer Works and is going to try calling them today to see if they can help. I also suggested she try other local thrift stores in the area as they normally have some 5.25" floppies in the electronics section. I don't believe there is any preference for either size format. They just need one and need one now. They had a 5.25" floppy ready for the shoot but it's been misplaced. Someone please help Lucy. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

19 years, 4 months

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Linux question

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:43:58 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Linux question > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <m1HdZvW-000J1GC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Ask a question about Linux, everyone falls over themselves > to help - > > and that's certainly nice. > > > > But ask a question about a classic system like the Kaypro 10 - like > > poor Ralph Dodd did on April 12th - and the response is > disinterested > > silence. > > I disagree with the last comment. I am not 'disinterested'. > > I didn't actualy provide the answer to the linux question > because others > had got there before me and I had nothing to add. But I > easily could have > given the answere. Darn it, I've got cat running on this machine > (obviosuly), I can do a 'man cat' to see if there's anything > useful, and > so on. > > No, going back to that Keypro 10. I don't have one. I don't > have a technical or service manual (or a schemaitc) for it. > Coming from a TRS-80 background I have little experience of > CP/M machines (I always felt LDOS was a superior OS), I don't > have a single CP/M luggable. I have no experience at all of > the 3rd party ROMs that I believe were mentioned in the > original question. I can't help the OP. It doesn't mean I'm > not interested -- I am. But the only contribution I could > make would be > 'Sorry, I don't know' and that would be a total waste of bandwidth. > And that's my point. This is a Classic Computer list, yet no one on the list is able to respond to this guy's Kaypro 10 question. Perhaps the question was obscure, but this is truly the playground of obscurity. I would venture that 10 years ago Dodd's post would have received at least a few responses, as there were a lot of CP/Mers then on the list. They seem to have mostly moved on, and the composition of the list has changed. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing - but it is change. At one point in time I would have ventured that 70-90% of the list had some sort of CP/M machine, but I bet that number is now well south of 50%. "Disinterested" probably comes off as a bit too negative. People aren't really distinterested per se, the current composition of the list just isn't focused on these types of machines. Perhaps it would have been better to say "bewildered silence". -W

19 years, 4 months

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DEC Terminals available...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

If you're in the market for some DEC terminals - VT420 mostly - go to Weirdstuff (Sunnyvale, CA) this week! Doing my weekly Weirdstuff check - I found a lot (approx. 50) of DEC VT420's that are about be scrapped - likely by Friday of this week! Weirdstuff is willing to sell known working (you can test yourself) VT420's for $10 w/o keyboard or $20 w/keyboard. The retail store has been told of this deal - so you can go there - or if you're going to purchase quantity, contact "Jimmy" 408-743-5650 x320. They also have some DEC VT320, VT330, VT520, WYSE and other terminals available for additional $ (They are NOT scheduled to be scrapped). LOCAL PICKUP ONLY (absolutely NO SHIPPING). [I have no financial interest in this transaction] Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

19 years, 4 months

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DEC Terminals available...

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Lyle Bickley wrote: If you're in the market for some DEC terminals - VT420 mostly - go to Weirdstuff (Sunnyvale, CA) this week! Doing my weekly Weirdstuff check - I found a lot (approx. 50) of DEC VT420's that are about be scrapped - likely by Friday of this week! Weirdstuff is willing to sell known working (you can test yourself) VT420's for $10 w/o keyboard or $20 w/keyboard. The retail store has been told of this deal - so you can go there - or if you're going to purchase quantity, contact "Jimmy" 408-743-5650 x320. They also have some DEC VT320, VT330, VT520, WYSE and other terminals available for additional $ (They are NOT scheduled to be scrapped). LOCAL PICKUP ONLY (absolutely NO SHIPPING). ------------ I can't get up to the Bay area again until Memorial Day. If any of you local to the Bay area decide to buy some of these, would pick up one (with keyboard) for me? I can mail you a check, PayPal or your preference. Just can't pick it up until end of May. Billy

19 years, 4 months

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Kaypro 10 format.com

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Kaypro 10 format.com > From: info <info at harrells.net> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:52:00 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >With all the Kaypro 10 in the group I wondered if someone could send me >a copy of the format.com. I think thats the floppy formatter. >I have a k10 without the kayplus bios and a new hard drive that needs formatting. I have download the kaypro disks from dave's site and the system disk 2 is really multiplan. It may be an image of a bootable disk, IE: system tracks filled in. >I have a program called hdskfmt.com which I was told would work but >it is just a disk certify program. Thanks Does it certify or fail? Does it require a command line arguement to get to format? I thought the formatter for K10 hard disk was HDFMT as well. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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HP 1611 Microprocessor Logic Analyzer

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Al Kossow wrote: I found the docs I have this morning. Basic service manual and Z80 personality module up on http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/te/1611 I have the 8080 and 8085 module docs that I'll get to eventually. --------------------- Thanks Al. I appreciate it. I'll be spending the weekend going through these 3 manuals. Then see if I can modify the 1611 to do other, older machines. Billy

19 years, 4 months

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IDE Qbus controller (was TU-58s)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: IDE Qbus controller (was TU-58s) > From: Roger Ivie <rivie at ridgenet.net> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:40:41 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Allison wrote: >> Devices that arent MSCP like DD(tu58), DK(RX02), DY(RX02), >> DL(RL02) might make for examples. I'm fortunate to have >> the uncut sources on RL02. Unfortunately I'm not an >> experienced PDP-11 programmer. The upside is I have the >> RT-11 docset. > >You might take a look at the sources for the Pro350/380 hard >disk driver. IIRC (I did some mucking about with that driver, >although it has been years), the controller was quite similar to >the WD1010 stuff that eventually became IDE. >-- that is helpful info. I suspected there were other drivers that might be closer to the hardware then the MSCP route. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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Quick survey on equipment

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: >On 4/18/07, Ralph E. Dodd <redodd at comcast.net> wrote: >>Apple II with CP/M card > >My boss at a job in 1984 had one of those for running business >software. I never got to use it, but it seemed to do the trick for >him. > >I should google it to read up on the details, though I'll probably >never run across one in the wild. Dunno... how wild do you wanna get? I think I have a card stuffed in the attic - I don't have a ][, tho... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch at 30below.com | ...in oxymoron!"

19 years, 4 months

1
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hardware parity generation

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

hacking time... Is parity generation a simple case of chaining exclusive-or gates for the required number of data bits? e.g. for 8 data lines: d0 --+ XOR--+ d1 --+ | XOR--+ d2 --+ | | XOR--+ | d3 --+ | XOR--- parity d4 --+ | XOR--+ | d5 --+ | | XOR--+ d6 --+ | XOR--+ d7 --+ (possibly inverted at the end, depending on requirement for odd/even parity) ... I think that works, but thought I'd ask for list wisdom first :) I don't have a parity generator IC (LS280?) handy, but if the above works then a couple of LS86 chips would do the job*. *possibly a little slower than a "proper" LS280, but that's not critical for what I had in mind. cheers Jules

19 years, 4 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 44, Issue 47

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: cctech Digest, Vol 44, Issue 47 > From: "Barry Watzman" <Watzman at neo.rr.com> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:22:44 -0400 > To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> > > >> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, woodelf wrote: >> >> On that subject, what operating systems did the H-11 support? I have >> one sitting in my collection, complete with paper-tape reader and 8" >> disk drives. Never had the space to set it up until recently. >> >>Steve >> >The only Heath disk operating system offered by Heath for the H-11 was >HT-11, which was a very slightly modified (dumbed down) version of DEC's >RT-11. The only disk system offered by Heath was the H-27, dual 8" [Memorex >SSSD] drives. Many customers wanted to buy genuine DEC RT-11, which would >run on the H-11/H-27, but it was about $2,500 (and the differences from >HT-11 to RT-11 were very, very few). HT-11 was "cheap", but it would only >run on the H-27, it would not work on a non-Heathkit DEC floppy disk system. >The H-27 had two modes, "Heath" and "DEC", to prevent HT-11 from being used >on non-Heath H-11's. A friend had one. HT11 was basically RT-11 V2 with V3.* was current. I have a card cage, lsi-11, memory and serial and parallel IO card set for an H11. Those were retirees when he went to a 11/23. HT11 would run on a RX02 though they didn't supply the DX driver (one from V2.5 worked fine!). Also the H27 disk system worked fine in any Qbus system when in rx01 emulation mode (using DX driver). >I don't recall if there was paper tape software for the H-11 or not (I think >that there was), but even if there was, no one used it very much. The Heath The paper tape software supplied was IOX or IO executive. It was a package of routines you could build a closed system around or maybe your own OS. >paper tape reader, the H-10, was a mechanically unreliable nightmare (mostly >the punch, the reader worked ok), but they are worth a lot of money today, >I've seen them go on E-Bay for over $600. The punch had a lot of problems and the reader had a cog that would go out of round. >HT-11/RT-11 was no prize; it was a low level contiguous file operating >system, less sophisticated even than CP/M, although it may have had some >better utilities (and, for those to whom it mattered, it was of course "more >DEC-like"). Rt-11 is still the same filesystem. However it's a useful realtime OS and has a very small footprint. >The H-27 was just two standard 8" drives in a case with a Z-80 based >intelligent controller (WD1771 disk controller chip) that talked to the H-11 >using what we would now call a "host adapter" over a proprietary >bi-directional parallel port. The interface and command set wasn't any of >the standards for this type of configuration (e.g. it wasn't SASI or SCSI), >but it used that type of architecture. For a number of years I used an H-27 >on an S-100 system with a Tarbell controller by simply disconnecting the >internal intelligent controller and running a 50-pin cable direct to the two >Memorex drives. They were Shugart SA-801 compatible, so it was an easy >configuration to use, the H-27 then being just two drives, a power supply >and a cabinet. The drives were notorious for broken media hub clamps. Also the H11 power supply tended to go poof easily. However for the price it was a huge leap up in performance over the general market S100 or SS50 machines of the day. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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IDE Qbus controller (was TU-58s)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: IDE Qbus controller (was TU-58s) > From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:19:15 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >Allison wrote: > >>I have a few contollers (dual width) that are Both MFM and >>SCSI that sound like those. >> >>I keep putting it on my list of projects to do a simple IDE >>for QBUS. the design goals would be dual width, boot rom on >>board and uses a 2.5" drive on the card. So far I've only >>seen one Qbus IDE and it was lacking for software. Software >>driver for that hardware is for RT11 alone is a bit of a >>project as I'd need both the FB and SJ versions of the >>driver. >> >Jerome Fine replies: > >Device drivers for RT-11 are identical for FB and SJ >(or SB) monitors. The XM (RT11XZ monitors use the same >device drivers as XM) device drives are a bit different. I know that. That was just a typo. >If you feel that MSCP emulation (probably OK now that >the patent has expired) is too much trouble, then >perhaps the HD(X).SYS protocol from E11 would be >easier. I suspect that the protocol is so basic, >the concept might be included within other interface >such as for RK05 or even a floppy. Devices that arent MSCP like DD(tu58), DK(RX02), DY(RX02), DL(RL02) might make for examples. I'm fortunate to have the uncut sources on RL02. Unfortunately I'm not an experienced PDP-11 programmer. The upside is I have the RT-11 docset. >Whatever interface protocol you use, if you want to >extend the number of RT-11 devices that are allowed, >I would be very interested in looking at allowing >up to 256 devices using MSCP under RT-11. Naming >might be the problem: D00: => D77: where the >numbers seem to be octal allows up to 64 devices. >Using D00: => DFF: where the second and third character >seem to be hex would allow 256 devices. Alternatively, >using D00: => D7V: where the third character has >32 values including 0 => 9 and A => V. Thats beyond me. >The other possibility is to use multiple sets of >hardware registers that look like multiple controllers >under RT-11. And since even 256 RT-11 devices of >32 MBytes each covers only 8 GBytes, multiple controllers >may be required in addition to allowing 65536 RT-11 >partitions per drive by changing the table that >holds the RT-11 partition number to a 16 bit word >from an 8 bit byte. The later should not really >be a problem since the unit number is already limited >to a single byte even though a 16 bit word is available. >Swapping the unit number word with the partition >number byte should be reasonable and quite simple. > >Producing RT-11 bug fixes and enhancements is on >my list of priorities. Y3K is at the top of the >list. Does anyone else want to participate? There >are only 92 more years left. If one additional >word is allowed for the date, that would mean that >23 bits are available for the year. Likely that >should be enough for a while since the CE use of >97 leap days out of 400 will certainly need to >change before 8 million years. I should live so long.;) Allison

19 years, 4 months

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Quick survey on equipment

by redodd＠comcast.net

> Some have questioned the number of people on the list who have CP/M systems. I have 2 Heath H89's, 1 with the hard sector floppy controller & the other has both hard & soft controllers - neither in running condition at the moment Kaypro II Kaypro 10 - the machine that caused this thread because of turborom problems :) HELP!! Dynabyte DB8/1 S100 system with 64K Dynabyte DB8/4-2 (2 Remex 8in. floppies) both of these haven't been touched in many years TRS-80 Model 4 & 4P - both run LDOS & Montezuma Micro CP/M Apple II with CP/M card Atari 800 with ATR8000 thats runs Atari Doses & CP/M many other non-CP/M machines Ralph

19 years, 4 months

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DEC Terminals - Location of Weirdstuff...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

We SV/SF Bay Area locals know this - but many others of you may not: Weirdstuff Warehouse 384 West Caribbean Drive Sunnyvale, California, 94089 Regards, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

19 years, 4 months

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Update on floppy disk request in Austin

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

Lucy said she called the Goodwill Computer Works and was told they have stacks of disks (not surprising) so I guess the need has been fulfilled. Sorry if I got someone all worked up over nothing. At any rate, Lucy says when the film is complete she'll send me the link to the video, which will apparently be posted to Pervasive Software's website. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

19 years, 4 months

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HP 1611 Microprocessor Logic Analyzer

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Does anyone on the list have documentation for the 1611s? I found the docs I have this morning. Basic service manual and Z80 personality module up on http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/te/1611 I have the 8080 and 8085 module docs that I'll get to eventually.

19 years, 4 months

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Quick survey on equipment

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

I have an Imsai, a Z-100 and a Processor Technology SOL-20. Some special notes: Although it's not what I'm running, indeed they have been in a box and I have not run them since 1983, I have the three Seattle Computer Products cards required to implement 86-DOS (the OS that Microsoft bought from Seattle Computer Products that became MS-DOS) on the IMSAI or any other S-100 system. And I have 86-DOS itself, original floppy diskettes direct >from Seattle Computer Products. I bought it myself back in 1980 direct from SCP, it's original, and I think I have every version from 0.33 to 2.0 (e.g. MS-DOS 2.0). Also, I have a working Helios disk system for the SOL-20, and I have copies of PTDOS that actually run. This might just be the last working Helios PTDOS system in existence, certainly there are not many of them still running.

19 years, 4 months

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Heathkit H-11 & H-27

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re:" From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> I'm still trying to get that H27 drive working. I should check bitsavers or schematics for the Qbus floppy card. The card itself works to a point - if I install it in a minimal system (CPU, serial, RAM, boot/terminator), I can get the system to read in the boot sector from the floppy, but it hangs about the time RT-11 is running far enough to turn the interrupts on. I suppose I should also track down an H-11 configuration guide or module list or installation docs or whatever it came with to ensure I have a happy set of cards set to happy values. I've checked each chip on the H-27 interface, so I'm reasonably certain it's not a simple hardware problem; I'm not so convinced it isn't a jumper or other configuration problem. Mine came to me with only the enclosure and backplane being native Heathkit. The rest was 100% DEC (the floppy was never attached while I worked at that company). If anyone has any H-11 "getting started" docs, I'd appreciate a copy. Thanks, -ethan" As I said previously: "The H-27 was just two standard 8" drives in a case with a Z-80 based intelligent controller (WD1771 disk controller chip) that talked to the H-11 using what we would now call a "host adapter" over a proprietary bi-directional parallel port. The interface and command set wasn't any of the standards for this type of configuration (e.g. it wasn't SASI or SCSI), but it used that type of architecture. For a number of years I used an H-27 on an S-100 system with a Tarbell controller by simply disconnecting the internal intelligent controller and running a 50-pin cable direct to the two Memorex drives. They were Shugart SA-801 compatible, so it was an easy configuration to use, the H-27 then being just two drives, a power supply and a cabinet." Your interface card (in the H-11/LSI-11) is apparently good. The next thing to check is the two 8" Memorex drives. Since these are standard 50-pin cable Shugart compatible drives, this is fairly easy to test if you have another system .... just disconnect the daisy chain from the internal controller (the Z-80/WD1771 board in the H-27 cabinet, below the drives (below the sheet metal that the drives sit on), connect the drives to another known-good 8" controller and see if they work. If they do work, then the issue must be in the internal H-27 controller. That controller is a Z-80 with a WD1771 FDC and, of course, it has it's own firmware in ROM and it's own RAM (probably a few 2114's). Any of that could be bad. Also, that board has two modes, selected with a front panel switch, Heath and DEC (not what they were called, but the switch should be clear). RT-11 may or may not work in the Heath mode, I'm not sure (but HT-11 most definitely will not work in the DEC mode, which was really the point of this exercise). Beyond that, I don't know of a good way to test that board without something like a Z-80 ICE unit. That type of embedded system can be very hard to troubleshoot. There may have been some built-in diagnostics, but I have no information on that at this point.

19 years, 4 months

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PDP-11/34 filter and cable routing questions

by dundas＠caltech.edu

Continuing work on restoring my /34, I'm trying to replace the badly decayed filter it arrived with. A description with photos can be seen at <http://dundas-mac.caltech.edu/~dundas/retro/11-systems/34a/filter/index.html> So the questions: * Where is the filter placed? In front of or behind the velcro? * What are the correct dimensions? * Any specifications available for the filter material, thickness, etc? * Any hints on the correct cable routing between the modules in the BA11 and the KY11-LB? I've been unable to locate this information in the on-line manuals and print sets, but if it's there and I just missed it, I'd appreciate the reference. Thanks for any help. John

19 years, 4 months

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Heathkit H8's, H9's and H-11's

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Robert Armstrong wrote: > Dunno about the H-9, but the H-19 was a nice terminal. I have one > hooked up to an H-11; works great. Does anybody know how long they sold H-11's? I remember drooling over it when I saw the ad I think in BYTE, but I remember the H-8 had the write up but very little other than 8080/8086 ever seemed to have more than a passing glance with that magazine. > Bob Armstrong The H-11 was offered from 1977 (when Heath entered the computer business) until about 1981 or 1982 ... I don't remember the exact date. While the hardware was nice if you liked DEC architecture (it was just a standard LSI-11 made by DEC), it was a terrible system for a computer hobbyist at the time. There was very little software, and both the hardware and the software was expensive. Although I didn't introduce the H-11 and by the time I took over was only trying to sell off our inventory, I felt guilty for offering the system, because I knew that almost everyone who bought it was making a several thousand (1970's) dollar mistake.

19 years, 4 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 44, Issue 47

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, woodelf wrote: > > On that subject, what operating systems did the H-11 support? I have > one sitting in my collection, complete with paper-tape reader and 8" > disk drives. Never had the space to set it up until recently. > >Steve > The only Heath disk operating system offered by Heath for the H-11 was HT-11, which was a very slightly modified (dumbed down) version of DEC's RT-11. The only disk system offered by Heath was the H-27, dual 8" [Memorex SSSD] drives. Many customers wanted to buy genuine DEC RT-11, which would run on the H-11/H-27, but it was about $2,500 (and the differences from HT-11 to RT-11 were very, very few). HT-11 was "cheap", but it would only run on the H-27, it would not work on a non-Heathkit DEC floppy disk system. The H-27 had two modes, "Heath" and "DEC", to prevent HT-11 from being used on non-Heath H-11's. I don't recall if there was paper tape software for the H-11 or not (I think that there was), but even if there was, no one used it very much. The Heath paper tape reader, the H-10, was a mechanically unreliable nightmare (mostly the punch, the reader worked ok), but they are worth a lot of money today, I've seen them go on E-Bay for over $600. HT-11/RT-11 was no prize; it was a low level contiguous file operating system, less sophisticated even than CP/M, although it may have had some better utilities (and, for those to whom it mattered, it was of course "more DEC-like"). The H-27 was just two standard 8" drives in a case with a Z-80 based intelligent controller (WD1771 disk controller chip) that talked to the H-11 using what we would now call a "host adapter" over a proprietary bi-directional parallel port. The interface and command set wasn't any of the standards for this type of configuration (e.g. it wasn't SASI or SCSI), but it used that type of architecture. For a number of years I used an H-27 on an S-100 system with a Tarbell controller by simply disconnecting the internal intelligent controller and running a 50-pin cable direct to the two Memorex drives. They were Shugart SA-801 compatible, so it was an easy configuration to use, the H-27 then being just two drives, a power supply and a cabinet.

19 years, 4 months

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Looking for Northstar Horizon double-density floppy controller

by stekster＠gmail.com

I know I have an extra - finding it is another question. Contact me off list and I will start a search. I can also lend you some boot disks and have extra hard-sectored disks, and can send you pdf docs if you need them. Also check out Dave Dunfield's site http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html if you haven't already for N* imagedisks. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

19 years, 4 months

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DEC/VMS manuals ("gray wall") available, any interest?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi folks, long time no chat with you. Just quickly, we're moving and throwing out stuff you can't think fast enough. Urgently they will toss DEC/VMS manuals from our "gray walls". They may be selective about what to keep. Is there any interest at all in preserving those? Please reply personally to me and cc the address shown below (preserve this subject line) if you are interested. This is going to happen in a matter of days, so time is of the essence. regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow at regenstrief.org Associate Professor Indiana University School of Informatics Regenstrief Institute, Inc. Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

19 years, 4 months

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Looking for Northstar Horizon double-density floppy controller

by derschjo＠msu.edu

The subject says it all -- acquired a complete Northstar Horizon sans floppy controller a long time ago. I'd love to get this machine running, it's been sitting around dormant for so long, and it's basically useless without a floppy controller. If you have one you're willing to sell/trade for, let me know. Also looking for software if anyone can provide copies -- I have the HD-5 controller/drive so a copy of HDOS would be fun to play around with. CP/M would be nifty as well... As always, thanks in advance... Josh

19 years, 4 months

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Heathkit H-19

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

> RE: Dunno about the H-9, but the H-19 was a nice terminal. I have one > hooked up to an H-11; works great. > > Bob Armstrong > The H-19 was a great terminal. It was a truly great product. Great functionality, solid and reliable, and economical. And Heathkit and Zenith sold a ton of them, tens of thousands (might have even gotten up over 100,000). The H-89 (and all of its' variants) was just an H-19 with a single board Z-80 computer stuffed into the same cabinet. There were actually two major variants of the H-19, the original one and the later one that was re-engineered to meet FCC Class "B" RFI reduction approval. They are functionally the same, and the overall circuitry and firmware are more or less the same, but there are some changes internally (fairly major, actually). You can tell the later one because there is a circuit card on the CRT socket; on the early one, the CRT socket was just a CRT socket with wires running to the deflection board assembly.

19 years, 4 months

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Heathkit H8's

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

In article <002f01c78113$afc16f80$6500a8c0 at barry>, "Barry Watzman" <Watzman at neo.rr.com> writes: > [...] the "CP/M Card" (a > tiny small card, only about 3 inches wide, that allows the computer to > run CP/M ... I think that the original name was "extended > configuration card" or something like that). Do you mean this? Ebay item 200100612888 Yes, I believe that is of those (can't tell with absolute certainty, but I'm pretty sure). It's necessary to run CP/M. Normally the H-8's memory map has ROM in low memory (8K, I think). This card allows switching between this "standard" (for the H-8) configuration and a 64K all-RAM configuration.

19 years, 4 months

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Quick survey on equipment

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Quick survey on equipment > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:18:04 -0800 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >At 11:57 AM +1000 4/18/07, Doug Jackson wrote: >>Some have questioned the number of people on the list who have CP/M systems. I have a few peices mostly cp/m based but others are there. Allison Collection of operational hardware: PDP-8 based machines: ==================== PDP-8f 2 Decmate-IIIs OS/278 Intersil sampler (6100 chipset) 6120 based board, homebrew PDP-11 based machines: ===================== 1 LSI-11/03 rx02 2 PDP11/23 BA11S boxes, various hardware configs 1 pdp11/73 RACK SYSTEM (RX02, RD52, RX33, RL02). BA11va with 11/23 +tu58 PDT11/130 11/03 with tu58 dectapeII Homebrew design using T-11 (the 40pin PDP11) Rt-11, XXDP-11 and unix V6 VAX based machines: =================== Microvax-II (ba23 based) Microvax-II/GPX (Ba123 based, SCSI disks) 3 Microvax2000 all with RD53 or 54 drives, one with ultrix 2 Microvax3100/m76/gpx 3 Microvax3100/server (not M10e) VMSv5.4-4,V5.54, V7.2, Ultrix 4.2 CPM speaking machines: ====================== S100 subgroup ------------- Altair8800(pre-A) Built jan 1975 SN200! Altair 8800B-T complete, factory 1978 2 Northstar horizon, CP/M, NS*dos, hard disk (one I built in '77) CCS-2200 CP/M2.2 Compupro full boat with 8085/8088 card and MPX-1 (CCPM) Netronics 8085 w/VDM1 SBC/bounded systems: -------------------- AmproLB+ CMOS modded and running with 45mb 3.5" SCSI SB180 with SCSI adaptor, adptec scsi bridge and 20mb CPM2.2 3 Visual technolgies 1050, CPM-3 two with outboard 10mb SCSI disk Kaypro 4/84 w/handyman and Advent turborom+personality card Kaypro II complete 1 Vt180 complete 2 Vt180 CP/M board built up as standalone one modded for 6mhz 1 Vt185 Thats a Vt125 + Vt180. Osborne 1 Epson PX-8 with 120k ram wedge and 300bd modem wedge Other buses (not s100): ----------------------- NS* Advantage (hard disk) 2 Hurikon Z80 Multibus system CP/M2.2 MISC Single board computers and systems: ======================================= Motorola 6800D1 SBC with TBX National SC/MP board National Nibble basic [sc/mpII] SBC NEC TK80A 8080a SBC with protocard KIM-1 BCC180 Z180 controller 5 8085 SBC 4krom, 2kram, 3 8251 serial Cosmac ELF orgional (built back in '78) COSMAC ELF (TMSI TM100) expanded elf EELF (Spare Time Gizmos Embedded elf) DEC ADVICE, VAX chipset on an SBC for in circuit emulation. IMSAI IMP48 (8035 based SBC) Homebrew 8039 based SBC (switches and leds pannel!) Prompt-48 804x development tool/system NEC EVAkit-48 8048/9 development system/board 2 TI99A (with disks and SW) Technico superstarter system with assembler roms (TI9900) Tandy M100 portable Commodore 128, I keep forgetting that one.. H19 terminal Vt100/125 terminal Vt1200 Xterminal 3 Vt320 terminal White, amber and green! Vt340 Color Terminal VK170 Vt52 on a dual width card PC stuff of interest, generally I dont bother but these are interesting. Intel Inboard386(upgrades an XT to 386/16 with 1.2mb ram) Trackstar 128 (dual 6502 for ISA PC improvement) AST sixpack pro Tandy 1000hx (V20)

19 years, 4 months

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Linux question

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:18:17 -0300 > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Subject: Linux question > To: "'m100 at list.30below.com'" <m100 at list.30below.com> > Cc: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <01C77F60.91DCC0A0 at mse-d03> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > A simple question for the Linux gurus from a WIN/DOS simpleton: > > How do you concatenate two binary files into one? > > m > Ask a question about Linux, everyone falls over themselves to help - and that's certainly nice. But ask a question about a classic system like the Kaypro 10 - like poor Ralph Dodd did on April 12th - and the response is disinterested silence. -W

19 years, 4 months

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More on govliquidation...

by kahrs＠caip.rutgers.edu

Compared to what DRMS used to make before govliquidation, all I can say is I'll bet they're getting a lot more now... My internal calculation goes something like this: plan on $100 per item for S&H by an external agent. I've had both good and bad experiences. Anything is possible with money. And you'll probably get something you don't want. If it weren't for the S&H, the deals would be phenomenal.

19 years, 4 months

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source for developing nextstep applications book

by ingrammp＠earthlink.net

I recently picked up a copy of the book "Developing NextStep Applications" by Gene Backlin, but unfortunately, it did not come with the diskette containing the code. Is this available as a downloadable file anyplace ? ( ie... anyone have a copy ?? ) I've googled around and haven't had any luck, and the email address of the author... gbacklin at marizack.com just bounces... Thanks in advance Mike

19 years, 4 months

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Heathkit Products (was: Help to identify a Selectric based terminal)

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: > Barry Watzman > [former Product Line Director for Heathkit computers and Zenith Data > Systems] Oh REALLY! 8-) Perhaps I can pick your brain for a moment. :) There was a neat Heath machine, I believe it was 8086 or 8088 based, that had a solderless breadboard built into it...I believe it was even connected to the bus. What would that have been? I'd like to find one, but it's been a difficult search not knowing what it was called." There were a couple of them, actually. Those were not my products, however. The products you refer to (the early ones were based on a Motorola 6800 series, if I recall, the later ones were based on the Intel 8088) were products from the educational products division of Heathkit, rather than the computer division. I don't remember the model number of the later one (the earlier one, based on the Motorola CPU, was the ET-3400 series), and the later one, I think it was the ET-100 (which was derived from and compatible with the Z-100 series ... would run 16-bit Z-100 software) wasn't made in particularly large numbers (also, an even more rare expansion accessory was required for full Z-100 and MS-DOS compatability). But they did exist, and you may find them on E-Bay from time to time.

19 years, 4 months

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TU-58s (was Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: TU-58s (was Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system) > From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:43:19 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >Allison wrote: > >>Sounds nice. I have a few BA-11VA (four dual width slots) >>and it's a challange to put enough boards to make a bootable >>viable sytem in that. An 11/23, 256k ram, DLV11J and a Rom >>card was full house and for storage the only choice was TU58 >>or Tu58 emulation (requires bukly balky PC). >> >Jerome Fine replies: > >For this example (I assume this is an M8186), there >were dual MFM and ESDI controllers which have boot >ROMs for the hard drive (non-DEC of course). I still >use my dual ESDI controller. I no longer have the >MFM controller, but that was all the VT103 originally >had which was essential to run and boot an operating >system such as RT-11. I have a few contollers (dual width) that are Both MFM and SCSI that sound like those. I keep putting it on my list of projects to do a simple IDE for QBUS. the design goals would be dual width, boot rom on board and uses a 2.5" drive on the card. So far I've only seen one Qbus IDE and it was lacking for software. Software driver for that hardware is for RT11 alone is a bit of a project as I'd need both the FB and SJ versions of the driver. Allison

19 years, 4 months

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SCSI-1 spec

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:40:44 -0700 >From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> >Here is the last working draft. > >http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/drafts/s1/s1-r17b.txt > Thank you for that. I'm not the original requester, but I imagine that many of use may have a use for that at some point. I put some specs for later SCSI standards up at <http://www.prismnet.com/~trag/Standards/> and some specs for IDE as well. I'm not certain that they were the latest working drafts for each standard, but I collected them in 2004 and most of them are from the 90s, so I believe that they were the latest available. Jeff Walther

19 years, 4 months

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OT: Tektronix plug-ins

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I?m trying to help out a friend who isn?t particularly scope-savvy. He has a Tek 7406a scope and wants to know what plug-in he needs to do waveform capture. If anyone knows or can provide come guidance, please let me know. Thanks. Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

19 years, 4 months

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SCSI-1 spec

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I have a SCSI disk drive manual M2244S/SA/SB M2245S/SA/SB M2246S/SA/SB > which if I remember correctly has a lot of good info (not scanned yet) > nag me if needed looks like it would be a good thing to get a scan of what you have. turns out mine was a service manual for non-scsi drives.

19 years, 4 months

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ISO Syquest SQ306 (on eBay) / Syquest 100

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> This seller is usually way over priced on his items And when they don't, they mysteriously discover the item isn't in stock any more. They priced some Kennedy 96xx tape drives low, and reneged on the deal. avoid "IT Equipment Express"

19 years, 4 months

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HP "calculators" (was Re: World's first computer on ebay!)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 20:02 -0500 4/14/07, ard wrote: >It puzzles me too. The connector in question is a normal, double-sided 25 >pin (per side) 0.156" pitch edge connector. That's actually not a common >size in the UK (0.156" pitch is not normally used over here), so it's >probably somebody 'borrowed' it becuase it was the easiest way to get >that sort of connector. Is there any chance that the connector was removed because it was causing some sort of mechanical interference or stress on the board? Just guessing wildly, but maybe, if it was otherwise non-functional....? -- - Mark, 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

19 years, 4 months

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Help to identify a Selectric based terminal.

by marvin＠rain.org

Are Selectric based terminals that rare? And do the Selectric style typewriters fall in that same classification? I've seen three Selectric style typewriters in the last couple of weeks, and figure they are not worth picking up. > Richard wrote: > > [snip] > > If you want to unload that beast, just let me know as its something > I've really been looking hard for over the past couple of years!

19 years, 4 months

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Help to identify a Selectric based terminal.

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Bob Rosenbloom wrote: The IBM MAG card Selectric's are not too hard to find. Their not cheap, about $50 each, but I've found two in the last year. I have not tried to interface one yet but I do have the manuals and don't think it would be too hard. Also, they made a "Communications MAG Card Typewriter" that has some sort of interface on it. I just missed one a few months ago. Another thing to look out for is the military I/O Selectric's. I bought two from govliquidation a few years ago. Both have some damage from poor shipping though. These have a big round military (ITT/Cannon) type connector and I have yet to find any info on them. I was lucky to find them, they were listed as "Human Communication Device, Typewriter"! My real quest is a "Model B" I/O typewriter as was used on the IBM 1620, model 1. Probably end up with a bunch of solenoids under a standard typewriter! Bob ----------------- Billy responds: I consider $50 for a Selectric with interface connections extremely cheap. I would expect them to be much more scarce than that. The military machines sound familiar. I'm certain they are covered in some manuals I loaned Al recently to scan. The heart of the I/O Writers used the IBM model 72 and model 73. Al has my manuals for both - they are CDC reprints of IBM Service manuals. Plus I loaned him some parts manuals that have great exploded views for repairing the units. I used all of these manuals when I was trained on the Selectrics, back in 1967. Also, Al has already posted some IBM reference manuals. But I think they are in the CDC folder under terminals. One of the manuals I loaned Al also has all the interface timing and signal levels and how to control. Finally, Wayne Green published a nice little paperback on interfacing a Duramachine to a PC. It has a good basic circuit that could be used to start your own design. I have one Model B with the Sorobon mechanism to drive the typewriter from a computer. It was used on all the CDC computers plus many of the other computer companies of the era. I don't believe that IBM used Sorobon, instead did their own design on the 1620. But I've never dug into a 1620 so don't know what the encoder looks like. I have some other Model B's to use as spares, but no other encoding devices. Would love to find more on the history of that company: Sorobon. About all I know is that they were based in Florida when I ordered some parts from them in the 70's. Still have some of the spare solenoids they used. Guess I should measure and document them. Billy

19 years, 4 months

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HP "calculators" (was Re: World's first computer on ebay!)

by jdbryan＠acm.org

On Sat Apr 14 2007, Tony Duell wrote: > If you want to run the old programs and get the feel of the machine > again, I am told there's a pretty good HP98x0 emulator on the web, and > I think it's open-sourve.... I've taken a quick look at this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/hp9800e/ ...and it seems quite impressive. I spent only a little time working with it, but it appears to emulate the hardware and execute code dumps of the actual 9800-series ROMs. Most of the option ROMs are included, as are a number of peripherals. Worth a look. -- Dave

19 years, 4 months

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SCSI-1 spec

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Does anyone have an electronic copy of the SCSI-1 spec (scans or OCR)? I'm homebrewing some SASI stuff, but figured it'd probably be possible to add SCSI support on the same board (hence the hardware parity question yesterday). I suspect the latest SCSI spec *is* around as a PDF, but 90% of it's likely not relevant to dealing with vintage SCSI devices! :-) Failing that, I suspect that some device manuals (such as disk/tape bridge boards) might have useful SCSI documentation within - so recommendations welcome! (I've got a few OMTI, Xebec and Emulex ones here, but despite calling themselves SCSI they tend not to cover arbitration, parity, unit attention etc. and are more like SASI in nature) cheers Jules

19 years, 4 months

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SCSI-1 spec

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Here is the last working draft. http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/drafts/s1/s1-r17b.txt

19 years, 4 months

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Help to identify a Selectric based terminal.

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Richard wrote: Dude! That is very similar to the 2741-ish terminal that I used in 1979 and ran at 134.5 baud. I have been looking high and low for even a picture of this puppy and you got one, you lucky bastard! :-) [snip] If you want to unload that beast, just let me know as its something I've really been looking hard for over the past couple of years! -- I second that. I've been looking for Selectric based terminals, stand alones, Durawriters, & console I/O writers for many years. Never found a single one. What a great find. I'll stand right behind Richard should you ever want to part with it. Billy

19 years, 4 months

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OffTopic: For Sale, Icom 746 & Linear PS

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

Of course, all replies offlist. Roger needs a new AT keyboard converter to finish his CoCo repack... (and a newer laptop) and there's a lot of Ham Radio enthusiasts here, so I apologize for the offtopicness of the forsale, and if I've done bad things, slap me in the face with a frozen mackerel... but hey... at least it's not a linux distro advocacy thread! I haven't used my Icom 746 in a few years, so I'm going to sell it. $750 + shipping (your choice of USPS, UPS, FedEx or DHL) from 49783 (I can have the weight available for anyone interested this evening - it's already packed up) - It's super-clean, no scratches on the faceplate or finish (well, except around the screws, but that's to be expected) No dust or anything on the inside - and it does have 2 installed crystals (of the six max.) a CFK455K-5 DSP filter, and an Icom FL-272 9Mhz/2.4KHz SSB filter. I'm also selling the 35A 12V *linear* power supply that will run this and much more - also super clean, only used a few times - it's a Victory PS35 - $80 + shipping. I have pictures here - they're unsorted, but they're named fairly aptly: http://www.1400rpm.com/epay As the directory name suggests, if I have no takers, they'll be on ePay next Sunday. The *cheapest* 746 sold on ePay lately was for $760, and that was with inflated shipping. ;-) I apologize for the pictures - I've had "depth of field issues" with my Nikon D70 in the past, so I was tinkering with the settings - these are around 1-second exposures with natural light at maximum aperture. I had a tripod, but the long exposure time still didn't do me any favors with sharpness, but hey - at least the DOF is better!!! ;-) I'd be happy to provide better pictures on request. Again, thanks for not lynching me (yet) and all responses offlist. Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me zmerch at 30below.com. | SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers

19 years, 4 months

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SCSI-1 spec

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I have a SCSI disk drive manual M2244S/SA/SB M2245S/SA/SB M2246S/SA/ I have B03P-4805-0008A_M224SAX_Sep85 scanned

19 years, 4 months

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Help to identify a Selectric based terminal

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: "It looks like the Heath colors from the H8 series. I suspect it is a very limited edition of a Heath terminal" Heath never made anything in any color even remotely resembling that [blue], nor did Heath ever offer a selectric-based product. [The only colors used by Heath computer products were black, a cream off-white, two shades of gray, and the beige/tan colors used in the Z-100 and some other products.] In fact, Selectric-based printers had disappeared (as new products) by the time Heath entered the PC business, relatively late, in 1977. Barry Watzman [former Product Line Director for Heathkit computers and Zenith Data Systems]

19 years, 4 months

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ISO Syquest SQ306 / Syquest 100

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I have a few Burroughs Cartridges for a SyQuest 100 tapes.. any idea what > model SyQuest drive these are for? They are 5.5mb removable disc cartridges, most likely for the Convergent Miniframe. There is mention of it in R.D. Davis' FAQ " 2.4 Were any hard drive interfaces, other than the ST- 506, used with the Miniframe? From the writings of Clarence Dold, dold at rahul.net: No. There was a driver for the removable SyQuest 5MB cartridge, which was mounted as drive one, leaving the odd quirk that the machine wants to boot drive one rst, if one is available " The SQ306 is, in fact, an ST506 compatible drive. If you are able to read these, the Computer History Museum would be interested. There is an effort within the Software Preservation Group to save CTOS software and related hardware.

19 years, 4 months

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ST506 WTB:Micropolis 1325

by dm561＠torfree.net

------------Original Message: Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:32:06 -0700 From: jd <onymouse at garlic.com> Subject: Re: ST506 WTB:Micropolis 1325 <snip> >Seagates before that which all failed when the warranty chip timed out. LOL!! Hmmm... do you suppose...? m

19 years, 4 months

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How to Build a Clean Box

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 5:32 -0500 4/10/07, Sridhar wrote: Sridhar and Andy, Good suggestions below. I have a couple of additions, based on my (limited) experience working on the flight hardware on a couple of pretty contamination-sensitive projects I've worked on. Sorry for the delay, I was ( :-) ) working on one of the projects, albeit not one at the clean-room stage, rather than keeping up with my email. >Basically, the purpose of the clean box is to ensure that the air you're >working in is clean. The box should be made from something that won't >turn readily into dust, for example, it should *not* be made of >cardboard. Plastic works best. Painted metal is what we use for practically all of our work. With the right paint, it can be grounded (through resistors) to eliminate the chance of ESD; that's hard with plastics. Also, most of the instruments I've worked on are *very* sensitive to contamination >from hydrocarbons. That affects several of the statements I make below, and it precludes most kinds of plastic. Delrin, lexan, and a few others with extremely low outgassing properties are still OK, but there are a lot of plastics that are not allowed in the clean room. I expect this would be much less of an issue (except for the ESD considerations) for something other than UV optics or microchannel detectors. >Also, the box should have at least one clear side. I used perspex for >the sides and top and thick rigid PVC for the base. It's important for >you to be able to see what you're working on. > >Third, it's important to get the box sealed up well, so use plenty of >thick silicone sealant along the corners. And make real sure that the >silicone is completely and thoroughly dry and set up before you use the >clean box. It also couldn't hurt to join the corners on a miter. In >mine, I use a false bottom that holds together with some bolts to make >it easier to open and close the box, so I can get tools and items to be >repaired in and out of the box. In my experience, sealing is a non-issue. In fact, practically all of our clean rooms, clean boxes, etc. have open apertures of one size or another, cracks, vents, etc. What *is* critical is that the volume have positive pressure maintained inside of it while any work is going on. Generally, with a good high-volume but low-pressure supply of clean air, all the dust is removed (blown out the apertures) within about 15 minutes of starting the supply. Of course, if the air supply fails or is shut off, we close things up pretty well and pretty quick, to keep dust from migrating back in. We also wipe down surfaces from time to time, so that whatever dust does manage to accumulate doesn't get stirred up during work. For wiping down, Isopropyl alcohol (um, propan-2-ol?) and lint-free wipes ("Kimwipes" brand, in the US) are the standards. One thing you may not have to worry about is the idea that to us silicone is a four-letter word. Silicone oils are *very* easy to inadvertently transport all over the work via accidental contact on a gloved finger, *very* hard to remove, and fatal to several of the detectors and optics we use. So we don't allow any of that kind of material in the clean room as a general principle. >Fourth, it's a good idea to use an inert gas supply. For reasons of >availability and price, the best choice might be nitrogen. Danger, Will Robinson! I second Simon's caution - do not allow N2 to accumulate in the volume you are breathing out of! Even though the box is "sealed", N2 will be leaking out into the room. If enough of that happens before the room air is replaced (by an open window, or whatever) you die. We don't want that. >Bottled >nitrogen won't be completely clean, A liquid nitrogen dewar is a good supply of clean nitrogen, but that may not be such a useful suggestion .... Meantime, with bottled, regulated nitrogen, you may well have issues with hydrocarbons (if you care about that). Hoses that have been used downstream (or even upstream) of vacuum pumps can have some of the lubricating oil on the inside. Many regulators have grease or oil which can get into the downstream side. If you choose to go this route, you might consider SCUBA gear and plain compressed air (and a filter). Most SCUBA equipment and air suppliers are pretty careful about atomizing oil into divers' lungs, so that can help you. In general, if it has a noticeable odor, it's got some sort of hydrocarbon outgassing or contamination, and we would not use it. Most folks have noses which give them a lot more information than they pay attention to. All that said, we don't use any of that for clean-room work. We use *only* a HEPA (HEPA is a key descriptor, here) filter on the output end of a good ventilation system. We are reasonably careful about the input supply (ie no diesel trucks parking right next to the air inlet), but that's about all. Paxton's comments (hey, if it's good enough for pizza, it's good enough for a hard drive :-) ) are very well taken here. We do use a liquid N2 dewar to supply purge gas which is tubed directly into some instruments to make sure humidity, fumes from drying adhesives, diesel fumes from outside, etc. do not get into the detector and UV optics, but that comes at a really low supply rate and I don't think any of those considerations are applicable to hard drives or to most electronics. >so an air filter is probably a good >idea. Don't use a paper one, obviously. I use a glass allergen filter. A good HEPA filter on a high-volume air supply (ie one that exchanges air in the work area about once every 15 seconds or so) is really *all* you need, in my experience. Put the work upstream of the hands and tools, wipe down the work area with IPA and kimwipes, let the supply run for an hour or so before you start, and I think you should be down to a pretty low level of particulates. > And the gas should go through a regulator. If it comes out too >quickly, it could get supercooled, and that would not be fun. And don't >forget to create a gas outlet with a one-way valve, to prevent outside >air from getting in. If you don't put in an outlet, the gas will find >its own outlet, and that won't be good. True, but see above. Letting the gas get out any (many) ways is OK, as long as it's getting out fast enough that none or not much can come back in. >Obviously, it isn't possible to work in a completely sealed cube. You >also need a place to put your hands into the box to actually *do* the >work. The most reasonable method for doing this is to attach a pair of >gloves to the box itself. Again, getting a good seal between the box >and the glove is of paramount importance. Use a sealant material which >has enough flexibility to do the job. Also, it would be a good idea to >have a way of changing the gloves without tearing the box apart. I >mounted my gloves to the box on opposite ends of the box so that I can >get my hands to anywhere in the box. Good for flexibility with the work, bad for staying downstream of the clean air supply. If anyone is interested, I can try to grab pictures of some of our work setups around here. They are probably fancier than what you'd want, though. >One thing I didn't think of until >after I had built the box is that the positive pressure inside the box >doesn't have to be very high, so you don't have to use gloves that are >very rigid. I used pipefitters' gloves the first time, and I lost a lot >of fine control. I suggest using something much thinner. > >Experiment! It's the easiest way to figure this stuff out. And let me >know how it goes. I'd be interested to know. Good luck. > >Peace... Sridhar There are particulate counters, but not cheap. One idea for a test is to set up your work area, lay a *clean* mirror in it facing up, and leave it overnight. (or do some non-critical work in the area for a few hours). Then look at the mirror under a really bright light or (even better) a UV light. If it still looks clean, you are probably OK. I'm hoping Tony D. (and many others) chime in (or have already done) on this thread; I suspect there's much experience out there more applicable than mine. -- - Mark, 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

19 years, 4 months

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Quote attribution (was: Mac SE?

by jvdg＠sparcpark.net

Dave McGuire wrote: > On Apr 16, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > >>> On Apr 16, 2007, at 5:07 PM, Joost van de Griek wrote: >>> >>>> "Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity." >>>> - Nadine (Velociraptor) >>> >>> Hey, I know her! I can just picture her saying that too. ;) >> >> It has also often ben attributed to Napoleon, Gordon Liddy, and >> "Hanlon". > > Yep...It's very much Nadine's style, though. :) Plus, I added it to my collection after she posted it to the list. So AFAIC, it stays attributed to her. I'm sure you're in my file somewhere, too. Something about suits. :-) ,xtG tsooJ

19 years, 4 months

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ISO Syquest SQ306

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Does anyone have a SQ306 they don't need? circa '82 mfm 5 meg removable cart drive

19 years, 4 months

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IRIS Indigo PM2 post-portem

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I recently acquired a SGI IRIS Indigo R4k machine that was nonfunctional. After a bit of troubleshooting I tracked it down to the PM2 (processor module daughtercard, R4400 + oscillator + 1MB cache), which has visible damage to two of the cache RAM chips (smoke holes and cracks). I am trying to trace back the likely sequence of events that lead to this happening so it doesn't happen again. AFAIK in the R4400SC the cache memory is attached directly to the R4400 with the exception of the power leads, and the R4400 has all cache control logic integrated. The PSU voltages have been checked and are within specs, with no excessive ripple. In my experience, chips do not blow up without an external cause that drastically increases the current flowing through the chip, however I also have zero experience with SRAM chips failing in a "spectacular" manner. Is this possible/likely? The other option seems to be the R4400 dying and taking the cache with it. Any ideas on where to proceed from here?

19 years, 4 months

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