- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by RBORSUK＠COLOURFULL.COM

Hi All, I've decided to get rid of my Dec PDP 11/04 and I thought I would offer it up on the list first before hitting eBay (so No, it's not free). Here's a couple of pics: http://homepage.mac.com/irisworld/vintage/1104_001.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/irisworld/vintage/1104_002.jpg Here's the list of boards: m7859 m7647 m7847 m7856 sms fd 1100i You can pick up in Port Huron, MI. 48060 or I can ship it (naturally you pay for packing materials and shipping cost) or you can have your favorite craters and freighters come and get it. Please send all offers off list. Cash via paypal is the best but I would be willing to trade for a Data General Desktop Generation system or an Aviion. Thanks Rob ps. Yes I have the top cover for it.

18 years, 7 months

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Atari 5200 store demo on Craigs

by silent700＠gmail.com

Not mine, and probably overpriced, but might be of interest to the hardcore Atari types out there: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tag/538256249.html

18 years, 7 months

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VT01 (yes, 01) manuals?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Does anyone have any links for VT01 storage scope display system manuals? I want to look at the details on this peripheral. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

18 years, 7 months

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AT&T Safari 3181 question Sigma Data QED

by bob099＠centurytel.net

A question about another unloved system. This machine says that there is no boot device. In the drive bay is a literal black box, labeled Sigma Data QED. No way to open it that I have found yet. Anyone have experience with these? Suggestions

18 years, 7 months

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Pasadena rescue update

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Because of the interest in this collection, I have decided to take on the Pasadena rescue into my inventory and auction it off. I've been told that the family of the deceased is not well-off. As such, I cannot in good faith broker a simple giveaway when the items could be sold to pay expenses. Here's what I expect to pick up: 1 Altair with a homebrewed front panel 1 Altair (regular 8800) 2 IMSAI 8080 machines 1 external 8-inch floppy drive 1 ADM3 or ADM3a terminal 3 or more IBM PCjrs, some with sidecars. Many components are unopened. I'll know more about these machines (like what's in the S100 chassis, if there are PCjr monitors) when I take custody of them. Due to my own storage problems[1], I will not be picking up any documentation that's not directly related to the above items. Once I have the machines, I will dispose of them within two weeks. My primary venue is Ebay. If you're interested in these items and don't want to deal with Ebay for whatever reason, please email me and we'll figure something out. [1] From my last two hauls, I was obligated to take a great deal of documentation that I cannot possibly catalog or distribute myself. I'm expecting one particular list member to come down to get some and I expect there to be a lot left over. The docs are mostly S100 in nature. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu

18 years, 7 months

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soroc 130

by escherck＠tech-crete.com

Hi Joe, is see this is an old thread, but will try it anyway. We are still using a SOROC 130 terminal in our plant, in use since 1983, but feeling a little tired. You indicated you had a 130 terminal? Interested in selling it or do you know of anyone who might have one for sale? Ernie Scherck AScT Tech-Crete Processors Ltd. 2930 13th Ave SW / PO Box 640 Salmon Arm, BC, Canada, V1E 4N7 Ph (250) 832-9705 Fax (250)832-9707 Email: escherck at tech-crete.com

18 years, 7 months

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11/70 board set on e-bay. . .

by tiggerlasv＠aim.com

Someone just posted a complete 11/70 board set on e-bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300190400927 -Snip- You are bidding on 18 cards pulled from a working PDP11/70 CPU headed for the dump. ? Sadly I had no way of transporting the several hundred pound rack and was only able to remove the cards. -Snip- (Sadly, I can't bring myself to tell him that the?front panel alone?would ?probably have been?worth?3?or 4?times what he'll get for the boards. . . . ) T ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com

18 years, 7 months

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CD-ROM caddy wanted

by legalize＠xmission.com

Anyone got some laying around they don't need? I need one for the external CD-ROM drives for my SGI machines. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

18 years, 7 months

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Rescued HP 7980 Tape drives, free for pick up Kent Wa.

by g-wright＠att.net

Just grabbed 3 HP 7980 9 track tape drives on there way to the scraper. I have too many already.(20+) free for pickup in Kent wa. 2 are SCSI, 1 is HPIB. ((1) is a 7980S) Front loading, all look to be in good condition No Shipping - Jerry Jerry Wright

18 years, 7 months

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Backing up VAX/VMS?

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

Hi Guys, Recently acquired some VAXen - I have a soft spot in my heart for VAX/VMS as I worked professionally as a user on a VAX/VMS system for quite some years, however I have little to no experience from a system administration standpoint. What I have: VAXstation 3100, currently running NETBSD VAXserver 3100 - Installed hobby version of OPENvms on it. VAXstation 4000 VLC - Has a full VMS 5.5 installed on it. Datability VCP300 16-port LAT terminal server (The VLC appears to load LAT networking when it boots, but I haven't looked into it further yet) My immediate concern is that I'd like to make a full backup of the VMS 5.5 on the VLC, and also attempt restoring it to another drive. Not quite sure what the best way to go about this is, and I want to make sure I *DON'T* cause any damage to it in the process, so I'm looking for someone experienced in VMS who can give be a bit of advice/guidance. I've got some documentation that I've dug up on the web including a VMS administrators guide, and I also have the full VMS 4.0 documentation set (about 3-feet of paper!). I've seen reference to booting stand-along BACKUP - I do have the OPENvms install CD which appears to boot to a configuration which can do stand-alone BACKUP (at least it can restore from a backup image on the CD). Possible backup media that I have available: - A pair of Exabyte HH-CTS 8mm DAT tape drives - A SONY SDT-5010 4mm DAT tape drive - SCSI ZIP Drive - Another SCSI hard drive Are any of these feasable as a backup medium for VAX/VMS? (All three of these machines have SCSI ports) If so, any pointers as to how to configure the drives/media to be recognized and accessable to the stand-alone backup, and info on how to perform such a backup would be most appreciated. I'll probably pull the original drive and install OPENvms to another drive for a "test run" before I try and backup the original system. Related topic: Keyboard/Mouse emulator? So far most of what I've been doing has been via a serial console, however both the 4000 VLC and the VAXstation 3100 support keyboard and mouse - The VLC has a VGA video connector, and I've found a couple of LCD monitors supporting sync-on-green which work on it. I've also scrounged up an LK-201 keyboard which works, and I'm working on acquiring a DEC mouse ... I did figure out how to activate "dead rodent mode" which lets me do mouse movements through the keyboard, and DEC windows does come up and run! I found details of the keyboard and mouse protocol in the back of a Microvax manual, and have been toying with the idea of building a small embedded controller to take a PC (PS2) keyboard and mouse, and emulate the DEC equivalents to the VAX - would anyone else be interested in this? Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

18 years, 7 months

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Old "Potter Instrument Co" tape drive available

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 14 Jan, 2008, at 19:11, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > I am looking for a home for a monster tape drive: > http://www.fpns.net/willy/forsale/TAPEDRV.HTM > Hope this isn't too off topic. Is it worth perserving? > I don't have the interest, nor space. Anyone interested, esp > a club should get in touch, its heading towards the dumpster. > Will What continent is it on? Is it half inch tape, one inch or quarter inch? Any idea how many tracks? Someone said it was 61-63, well half inch drives then had ten tracks, later seven tracks and later still nine tracks. Some analogue recorders had even more tracks. Roger Holmes Owner of a dozen Ampex TM4 ten track drives.

18 years, 7 months

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Anyone interested in a Coleco Adam?

by alanp＠snowmoose.com

A friend of mine has a Coleco Adam (and bits to go with the system) that he wants to get rid. I do not yet have the complete list of what he has. Anyone here interested in it? It is located in Shelton, WA. It sounded like it was free, but I need to confirm that. alan

18 years, 7 months

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Coleco Adam system available

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

Coleco ADAM! Now there's a system seldom heard these days! I'm an old Adamite at heart. There may be someone on Coleco Adam lists that may be interested. Murray-- "Computing forever!" Message: 9 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:42:54 -0800 From: Alan Perry <alanp at snowmoose.com> <alanp at snowmoose.com> Subject: Anyone interested in a Coleco Adam? To: cctech at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <478B127E.5090205 at snowmoose.com> <478B127E.5090205 at snowmoose.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed A friend of mine has a Coleco Adam (and bits to go with the system) that he wants to get rid. I do not yet have the complete list of what he has. Anyone here interested in it? It is located in Shelton, WA. It sounded like it was free, but I need to confirm that. alan

18 years, 7 months

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SEL advert

by aek＠bitsavers.org

We have quite a bit of SEL documentation in the Computer History Museum archives. There are three brochures up here: http://www.computerhistory.org/brochures/companies.php?alpha=q-s&company=co…

18 years, 7 months

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Converting monochrome video signal to VGA monitor?

by markk＠clara.co.uk

Hi, On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 "Martin Bishop" wrote: > IIRC someone suggested using a multisync monitor, that is likely to be > the cheapest and simplest way ahead. SyncOnGreen to Grn should give > you a nice green greyscale - white would require a video buffer (the > problem is loading by the terminators - which might just be > switchable / linkable). However UK prices for 19" NEC MultiSyncs are > about 200, i.e. double the price of cheap TFTs. Perhaps you can pick > up a small second hand one. > > Boxes are available to convert RGB to VGA, see e.g. > http://www.cadesigns.co.uk/mi1a.htm. Not cheap, just slightly less > than a multisync monitor, but the target market is banking. I have > used these for (VaxStation) VCB02 (RGB) to (VGA) TFT conversion. > Although the Hz fit of the screen image can be a bit "iffy" - > infinitely better than working on the console port. > > If you wish to roll your own, which I'm certain you don't, the > Intersil EL4583 data sheet and associated apps notes are a good place > to start. Additionally, the apps notes contain a fair bit of > background information which may be of interest. Thanks for the tip. Luckily it seems the video converter board I want to use has separate TTL-level horizontal & vertical syncs, just like VGA. I still need to determine the video signal amplitude, but it's looking like I'll just be able to use a resistor to connect it to the green line of the monitor. My monitor has 5 BNC inputs and can be set to high-Z, but I'll be running it through a KVM switch which has normal VGA connectors. The KVM probably has on-board termination. The amplitude probably isn't sufficient to drive 75-ohm red, green and blue lines without buffering/amplification. Horizontal sync frequency will be around either 31kHz or 54kHz depending on the mode (pixel clock 49.5MHz or 72MHz), so most modern (CRT) monitors should be able to handle that. Interestingly, looking at the board circuitry there seems to be a facility to provide your own pixel clock, so the horizontal & vertical frequencies could be adjusted if necessary. (Or maybe that was only used for factory testing.) -- Mark

18 years, 7 months

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VT01 (yes, 01) manuals?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> However, I'm more interested in what you had on your PDP-8 (or > whatever) system to drive the 611. KV graphics display system http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/pdp8i/DEC-8I-H6MA-D_KV_Graphic_Display_Sy…

18 years, 7 months

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Keybard repair help. Older terminals

by dm561＠torfree.net

-------------Original Message: Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:07:00 +0000 From: g-wright at att.net Subject: Keybard repair help. Older terminals I seem to have my share of Terminals that have bad keyboard parts. 3 that I'm working now have the same type of Keyboard. These are Hazeltine 1500 and ADM 3As. These have an molded base with fingers that stick up and a second square piece that slide into the base and makes and breaks the finger contact. It also has a square opening in the top for the key cap. So when someone drops a heavy object on the the key board this intermediate piece cracks in the corners and binds in the base. What I would like to find is a doner type of system that does not have any value so I can rob the middle piece.. (typewiter) ??? Tandy (Archer) sold a Alpha-Numrtic keyboard that said it was made for the TI 99/4 computer. It used the same switch type keyboard. - Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net --------Reply: I've got a few boxes full of keyboards & parts; any chance of a picture off-list? mike

18 years, 7 months

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PET power supply questions

by ethan.dicks＠usap.gov

Hi, all, I've been collecting various classic bits to work on over the winter, including a pre-CTRC 32K PET board (2001-N/3032) and a Static PET board. I don't have any cases or accessories, but I do have a C2N232, a single bare keyboard, and a C=Key converter enroute. For video, I was planning on trying that ancient XOR circuit to make composite video >from sync and video, and feed that to an old Panasonic mono CRT I saved >from scrap. What I'm lacking at this point is a power supply. Obviously, I'm unlikely to find a suitable mains transformer, so I was going to cobble up some form of switcher that puts out enough of the right voltages to make this all work. Poring over the schematics for the 2001-N board on zimmers.net (e.g. 320349-9.gif), I'm guessing that the onboard regulator circuit is pumping out +5VDC at over 5A, +12VDC at a couple of amps, and a miniscule amount of -5VDC. I'm not running a real tape drive, so I'm not as worried about the +9VDC unreg. Does anyone have any reasonable estimates or real-world measurements for the current draw on the various supply lines? Has anyone out there ever gotten a PET to run from externally regulated DC? Thanks, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 12-Jan-2008 at 23:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -13.9 F (-25.5 C) Windchill -32.7 F (-36.0 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.3 kts Grid 23 Barometer 686.2 mb (10395 ft) Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html

18 years, 7 months

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Backing up VMS

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Backing up VMS > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini at iee.org> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:40:27 +0000 > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Dave Dunfield wrote: > >> Fortunately the 4mm drive seems to be OK - I wrote a backup tape > >Have you managed to restore one yet :-) > >My experience of DAT is that after a (short) while they start >to chew tapes. Never had that with DLT: the drive may >break but the tape (for me at least) remains intact. Same here. Though I have some TLZ04s that seem to behave well. >Mind you, I have working RD53s and TK50s so there may be something >in the water here :-) Same here but I got the RD53s as "bad" and opened and fixed them. I also ahve TK50s (on sleds) and the boxed TK50 in both the DEC sorta scsi flavor. >>The good news is that BACKUP/IMAGE from one SCSI drive to >> another worked fine > >That's by design rather than luck ... BACKUP/IMAGE is supposed >to do that. If you BACKUP/IMAGE to a saveset instead, then >you'll have a single file that you can FTP somewhere else >for archiving. > >Given that 18GB SCSI disks are cheap (== free, usually) and >readily available, I would hook one of those up, initialise it, Back when 1GB drives were free and easily found I got a bunch along with a stack of RZ55s and 56s (with BA42 storage boxen). so that was the simplest and fastest solution for my systems with SCSI (all of the 3100s and one BA123 uVAXII). The others (BA23 uVAX and uVAX2000s) I use RD53s and 54s for that. Allison

18 years, 7 months

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Free PowerMac in SE England

by lproven＠gmail.com

Would anyone like a free PowerPC Macintosh? An acquaintance of mine has one he wants to get rid of. It's a PowerMac 7200/90. Spec unknown, I'm afraid, but it'll be running MacOS 8 or 9 or so. I believe these machines can be coaxed into running OS X up to 10.4 with XPostFacto, although you'll need to stick to at most 10.1 or 10.2 unless you put a G3 upgrade in it. Either way it will need more RAM and hard disk space to run OS X. It's just outside Brighton. The owner is James Fryer, jim at cix dot co dot uk. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com ? MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508

18 years, 7 months

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Tandy! Pocket! Mania! updated

by spectre＠floodgap.com

I've updated Tandy! Pocket! Mania!, my small page on the Tandy Pocket Computers, with more detailed history and some improved photography. This covers exclusively the Tandy-based Sharp and Casio units, with a little bit of background on the originals to avoid it being a total TRS palimpsest. Comments and corrections always gratefully accepted. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tpm/ -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- When you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly. -----------------------

18 years, 7 months

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DEC Keyboard Mouse Emulator (was RE: Backing up VAX/VMS?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Mouse Emulator (was RE: Backing up VAX/VMS?) > From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 02:20:14 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Cc: cctech at classiccmp.org > >Allison wrote: >> Save for theres nothing I can find at the site of anything for that. >> It appears thats a "proposed" project. I checked SourceForge and >> didn't find any code there. >> >As someone else noted, it's buried in CVS. But, it looks like it is done: > >http://kbdbabel.cvs.sourceforge.net/kbdbabel/kbdbabel/kbdbabel-lk-ps2/kbdba… > >from: >http://kbdbabel.cvs.sourceforge.net/kbdbabel/kbdbabel/kbdbabel-lk-ps2/ > >If this doesn't fit the bill, I am sure some of us can whip up something >that works. Found it, now what tool is used to display the .SCH file in useable form. The code looks good and a 8051 is plenty enough to do the task as the DEC keyboards used 8051. Allison

18 years, 7 months

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Old "Potter Instrument Co" tape drive available

by will_kranz＠softhome.net

I am looking for a home for a monster tape drive: http://www.fpns.net/willy/forsale/TAPEDRV.HTM Hope this isn't too off topic. Is it worth perserving? I don't have the interest, nor space. Anyone interested, esp a club should get in touch, its heading towards the dumpster. Will

18 years, 7 months

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Backing up VMS

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

On Jan 13, 2008, at 1:05 AM, Dave Dunfield wrote: > >>> My immediate concern is that I'd like to make a full backup >>> of the VMS 5.5 on the VLC, and also attempt restoring it to >>> another drive. > >> The VLC is simply SCSI based, isn't it? I wouldn't bother with >> doing a >> file-based backup, just because the SCSI drive will probably be >> "quite >> small" compared to today's drives. Just attach it to some other box >> and do a block-copy of the whole drive. That'll create a file of eg. >> 4GB in size with everything in it, including partitioning and all the >> file system(s). Simple to create, simple to restore to this or an >> identical drive. > > I've already done that - I put the drive from the VLC as an external > drive on the 3100 running NETBSD and dd'd it into an image file - but > my goal is to be able to survive a drive failure, and possibly also > move it to a larger drive. The original drive in question is an RZ23, > which is a 100M DEC labled Conner drive - I have three other similar > drives, two labled RZ23 and one Conner that are "really close" but > not exactly the same - apparently there were slightly different > variations and versions. > >> You'd probably do a file-based backup additionally to be able to >> restore to a different medium, though. > > Exactly. If I understand it correctly, an image backup should restore > to any drive, and is the best way to insure that I can rebuild the > system in the future. Why not write out a BACKUP tape with standalone BACKUP at the front so you can do a restore install? Only read about it being done on TKxx/TZxx drives, but it would be worth looking into, as it is the "official" DEC way to build a restorable backup (and is how they shipped the VMS tape distros) (haven't read too much about it because I don't have any CompacTape media right now).

18 years, 7 months

4
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Gridcase 1520

by bill.whitmer＠itt.com

Hello, If you know where or from whom we may purchase at least four fully functional Gridcase 1520 or 1530 laptops please advise. Bill Whitmer ITT Corp A/CD Depot 1460 Garden of the Gods Road Colorado Springs Colorado USA 80907 bill.whitmer at itt.com<mailto:bill.whitmer at itt.com> 719/594-5032 ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail.

18 years, 7 months

1
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PDP-11/24 available in Georgia

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

I got this email from Cole Petersburg (cpetersbur3 at gatech.edu). He has an 11/24 availabe, please contact him directly if interested. Information I got : +++++++ PDP-11/24, cosmetic damage to knob, 3U height, 19" rack RX02 dual 8" floppy drive "Computer interface unit" HP monitor Keyboard All cables, former positions are written down Little or no documentation Floppy disks, few or no useful ones Solid state relay - possibly belonging to the computer interface unit Provenance: It came from a PHI-600 Scanning Auger system, purchased around 1986. It ran RT-11, captured images, and printed them to a Tektronix printer. The printer was left with the previous owner. The PDP will be replaced with a PCI card from RBD Instruments. Current owner: I'll need to discuss transfer of ownership with my advisor at Georgia Institute of Technology. ++++++

18 years, 7 months

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DEC Keyboard Mouse Emulator (was RE: Backing up VAX/VMS?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Mouse Emulator (was RE: Backing up VAX/VMS?) > From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:22:49 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Bob Armstrong wrote: >> >>> I found details of the keyboard and mouse protocol in the back of >>> a Microvax manual, and have been toying with the idea of building >>> a small embedded controller to take a PC (PS2) keyboard and mouse, >>> and emulate the DEC equivalents to the VAX - would anyone else be >>> interested in this? >>> >> >> I'd be very interested, not because I have a shortage of DEC keyboards or >> mice, but because it'd allow me to use my VAXstation or PRO-380 on a KVM >> switch along with various PCs. The KVM switch can handle the video, but it >> can't cope with the DEC keyboards and mice. >> >> I suspect that this may not be as easy as you think, but if you're serious >> I'll build the hardware if you write the firmware. >> >Would this work help in any way: > >http://www.kbdbabel.org/ > >"PS2 Keyboard ---> DEC VT320 ..." Save for theres nothing I can find at the site of anything for that. It appears thats a "proposed" project. I checked SourceForge and didn't find any code there. Briefly: PS2 keyboard do a scan code and send it serially with a sperate clock line. They also use the same serial path to recieve data. DEC keyboards also use a serial path save for it's RS423 and at 4800 baud RS423. The format of the data is different (not scancode!). Here is a site that has the basic LK201 data: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/Hardware/Machines/DEC/lk201.html#electrical To go from PS2 to DEC one must both reconcile the different codings and how data is transmitted. I'd say PS2 to DEC is easiest direction as the PS2 scan codes are known and can be translated to anything. I believe the DEC keyboard uses a simpler code that is one byte for keydown and another for keyup. Allison > >Jim

18 years, 7 months

4
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PET power supply questions

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------Original Message: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:51:21 +0000 From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> Subject: PET power supply questions Hi, all, I've been collecting various classic bits to work on over the winter, including a pre-CTRC 32K PET board (2001-N/3032) and a Static PET board. I don't have any cases or accessories, but I do have a C2N232, a single bare keyboard, and a C=Key converter enroute. For video, I was planning on trying that ancient XOR circuit to make composite video >from sync and video, and feed that to an old Panasonic mono CRT I saved >from scrap. What I'm lacking at this point is a power supply. Obviously, I'm unlikely to find a suitable mains transformer, so I was going to cobble up some form of switcher that puts out enough of the right voltages to make this all work. Poring over the schematics for the 2001-N board on zimmers.net (e.g. 320349-9.gif), I'm guessing that the onboard regulator circuit is pumping out +5VDC at over 5A, +12VDC at a couple of amps, and a miniscule amount of -5VDC. I'm not running a real tape drive, so I'm not as worried about the +9VDC unreg. Does anyone have any reasonable estimates or real-world measurements for the current draw on the various supply lines? Has anyone out there ever gotten a PET to run from externally regulated DC? Thanks, -ethan ------------Reply: I haven't done it but, since I've also got a board and lower case w/kbd & cassette but no monitor or PS xfmr, it's also on my to-do-someday list to put it together with a small switching supply and composite monitor. I don't have a DRAM 2001N, and it's a little awkward to check the current on my 8032, but an SRAM 2001-8 identical to the one I sent you (but with chips;-) draws 2.8A on the unregulated 8.5V which feeds 4 LM305s, so the actual 5V draw would probably be slightly less. I'd think that any common +5/+12/-5 supply with >5A on the 5V would do just fine for both your boards, and if you don't need the cassette a single 5V supply would do the SRAM version. mike

18 years, 7 months

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youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

This is precisely the reason I unsubscribed from cctalk and subscribed to cctech. Yet, crap like this still gets through. Suck. -----Original Message----- >From: jpero at sympatico.ca >Sent: Jan 8, 2008 12:53 PM >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode. > >This is in french but the video is priceless! 17 minutes long. >Worth taking your favorite drink and take a seat. > >http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht >ml > >Cheers, Wizard

18 years, 7 months

8
9
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vintagecomputermarketplace.com down?

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Does anyone here know what's up with vintagecomputermarketplace.com? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu

18 years, 7 months

3
3
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Wavemate Bullet / Wave Mate Bullet

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Lynch [mailto:lynchaj at yahoo.com] > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:31 PM > To: 'cctalk at classiccmp.org' > Subject: Wavemate Bullet / Wave Mate Bullet > > Hi, > > Does anyone have a WaveMate Bullet machines? Does it work? > > It appears to be a single board CP/M computer with two 5.25" floppy disk > drives. > > Thanks! > > Andrew Lynch [AJL>] I think I'll clarify my post a bit... :-) I recently bought what I thought was an external dual 5.25" drive on Ebay but it turned out to be a Wave Mate Bullet single board computer. It came with two floppy drives and it *appears* to be in working order. However, I do not have boot disks to verify if it works or not. If anyone has any boot disks for this system, please reply here or contact me off list. The system uses soft sector disks so all I need is disk images we can make with ImageDisk. Probably, you don't even need a working machine since the disk drives are 96tpi floppy drives which can be read on a PC with a 1.2 MB HD floppy disk drive. Thanks in advance for any help! Andrew Lynch PS, here is the manual at bitsavers (Thanks Modem7): http://bitsavers.org/pdf/wavemate/Wave_Mate_Bullet_SBC.pdf

18 years, 7 months

1
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Keybard repair help. Older terminals

by g-wright＠att.net

I seem to have my share of Terminals that have bad keyboard parts. 3 that I'm working now have the same type of Keyboard. These are Hazeltine 1500 and ADM 3As. These have an molded base with fingers that stick up and a second square piece that slide into the base and makes and breaks the finger contact. It also has a square opening in the top for the key cap. So when someone drops a heavy object on the the key board this intermediate piece cracks in the corners and binds in the base. What I would like to find is a doner type of system that does not have any value so I can rob the middle piece.. (typewiter) ??? Tandy (Archer) sold a Alpha-Numrtic keyboard that said it was made for the TI 99/4 computer. It used the same switch type keyboard. - Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net

18 years, 7 months

1
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Sony 2.88 floppy pin outs needed

by g-wright＠att.net

Hi, I'm working on putting a 2.88 Sony floppy on a NeXT Cube that was upgraded to a 68040. So it has a floppy connection on the mother board. I have the pin-outs for the Next but not for the Floppy. Since the power comes through the interface cable and so does other 2.88 specific signals, I dont want to take a chance on trial by Error........ Looks like there was a ever changing standard on the 2.88 interface. Can't seem to find any searches that help. Drive is a Sony MP-F40W-25 Thanks, Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net

18 years, 7 months

1
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Backing up VMS

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Backing up VMS > From: Scott Quinn <compoobah at valleyimplants.com> > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 08:34:51 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > >On Jan 13, 2008, at 1:05 AM, Dave Dunfield wrote: > >> >>>> My immediate concern is that I'd like to make a full backup >>>> of the VMS 5.5 on the VLC, and also attempt restoring it to >>>> another drive. >> >>> The VLC is simply SCSI based, isn't it? I wouldn't bother with >>> doing a >>> file-based backup, just because the SCSI drive will probably be >>> "quite >>> small" compared to today's drives. Just attach it to some other box >>> and do a block-copy of the whole drive. That'll create a file of eg. >>> 4GB in size with everything in it, including partitioning and all the >>> file system(s). Simple to create, simple to restore to this or an >>> identical drive. >> >> I've already done that - I put the drive from the VLC as an external >> drive on the 3100 running NETBSD and dd'd it into an image file - but >> my goal is to be able to survive a drive failure, and possibly also >> move it to a larger drive. The original drive in question is an RZ23, >> which is a 100M DEC labled Conner drive - I have three other similar >> drives, two labled RZ23 and one Conner that are "really close" but >> not exactly the same - apparently there were slightly different >> variations and versions. >> >>> You'd probably do a file-based backup additionally to be able to >>> restore to a different medium, though. >> >> Exactly. If I understand it correctly, an image backup should restore >> to any drive, and is the best way to insure that I can rebuild the >> system in the future. > >Why not write out a BACKUP tape with standalone BACKUP at the front >so you can do a restore install? Only read about it being done on >TKxx/TZxx drives, but it would be worth looking into, as it is the >"official" DEC way to build a restorable backup (and is how they >shipped the VMS tape distros) (haven't read too much about it because >I don't have any CompacTape media right now). You can do that to a SCSI drive or any media large enough and recongnized by the system. That means TKxx, TZxx, RDxx (RD54 at 150mb is large enough for preV6 VMS), Any of the RZ drives large enough (I use RZ55s and 56s). Allison

18 years, 7 months

1
0
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Wavemate Bullet / Wave Mate Bullet

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi, Does anyone have a WaveMate Bullet machines? Does it work? It appears to be a single board CP/M computer with two 5.25" floppy disk drives. Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 7 months

1
0
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Tandon TM100 track 0 switch

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Just in case anyome else fixes TM100s... As is well-known, the track0 sensor in these drives is a microswitch. It's a standard V?-size one, but iwth a low operating force. One of mine failed (in an HP9836, if it matters), and I've found that RS (not Radio Shack, but http://www.rswww.com) 472-8005 is a perfect replacement. It's got the same connecitons (simply move the wires over tag-to-tag), and fits the original brackets with no problems. -tony

18 years, 7 months

1
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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by cclist＠sydex.com

> From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Interestingly, Andrew Lynch apparently got a different version of the GFR > (-149 IIRC) to work on his Vector with HS disks, whereas my -159 never > goes ready at all with HS disks. I was trying to oversimplify a bit on my reply; Teac drives across any single product line have a tremendous potential for variability. The last thing in the world I wanted was for someone to hunt down a set of FD-55GFR drives and report back that they didn't work. The same variability is present in 3.5" Teac drives--the 235HFs come in many varieties; some offer many options; others offer next to none. Undocumented jumpers and pads on drive PCBs are even wilder in assortment and presence/absence. I've had pretty good luck with Mitsubishi and NEC floppy drives manufactured for the Japanese market (PC9801-style systems). As the floppy format is based on an 8" model and doesn't change much across physical formats, the drives themselves tend to behave when pressed into use in 8" applications. They can be tough to find on this side of the Pacific, however. Generally, the later a drive is manufactured, the more "smarts" are used in its drive control logic--and the less it will be suited for non-PC use. I was surprised to find that there's a Toshiba 3.5" floppy (ca. 1996) that senses the data rate on HD diskettes and automatically changes its spindle speed. You can read, write and format 1440 KB on it and read and write 1232 KB, much like many USB and IDE floppy drives. The idea probably was that there were still a lot of DOS-V format floppies hanging around Japan and wouldn't it be nice to be able to read and write them on a "generic" PC... Heaven only knows what the drive would do with some nonstandard data rate or modulation. Hope this helps, Chuck

18 years, 7 months

1
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WHOOPS Mac powerpc 8500 200 not 8100.

by jpero＠sympatico.ca

Whoops! Susplus to me now, in parts or whole for little money. Have to ship it at your expense. I meant Mac Powerpc 8500 200 A/V. The details follows: 192mb of different memory and 2 slots left, 256K cache stick, Have RCA style A/V composite input and output with s-video ports, at least 2.1GB 7200rpm and other HD of unknown size but also 7200. 2X cdrom scsi. Cheers, Wizard

18 years, 7 months

1
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Backing up VAX/VMS?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Backing up VAX/VMS? > From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:26:39 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> > My immediate concern is that I'd like to make a full backup >> > of the VMS 5.5 on the VLC, and also attempt restoring it to >> > another drive. > >> The VLC is simply SCSI based, isn't it? I wouldn't bother with doing a >> file-based backup, just because the SCSI drive will probably be "quite >> small" compared to today's drives. Just attach it to some other box >> and do a block-copy of the whole drive. That'll create a file of eg. >> 4GB in size with everything in it, including partitioning and all the >> file system(s). Simple to create, simple to restore to this or an >> identical drive. > >I've already done that - I put the drive from the VLC as an external >drive on the 3100 running NETBSD and dd'd it into an image file - but >my goal is to be able to survive a drive failure, and possibly also >move it to a larger drive. The original drive in question is an RZ23, >which is a 100M DEC labled Conner drive - I have three other similar >drives, two labled RZ23 and one Conner that are "really close" but >not exactly the same - apparently there were slightly different >variations and versions. > >> You'd probably do a file-based backup additionally to be able to >> restore to a different medium, though. > >Exactly. If I understand it correctly, an image backup should restore >to any drive, and is the best way to insure that I can rebuild the >system in the future. For VMS an image backup can build the disk again assuming it's as least as large as the source drive. I keep a RZ24 and a RD54 with VMS5.4 on it as a "installer". All I need to do is boot stabckup [standalone backup] and do an image copy of the drive to the target and now the target is a usable/bootable drive. Learned that trick at DEC as it was faster to carry a MFM or SCSI drive around to systems with VMS preinstalled but not personalized and run standalone backup. Time savings ran from hours down to 20 minutes. Beats the TK50 for time savings. >> > I found details of the keyboard and mouse protocol in the back of >> > a Microvax manual, and have been toying with the idea of building >> > a small embedded controller to take a PC (PS2) keyboard and mouse, >> > and emulate the DEC equivalents to the VAX - would anyone else be >> > interested in this? >> >> That's a nice little fun project, not too hard to implement. >> Personally, I do have real hardware (LK201/LK401 keyboard, VSXXX-AA >> and -GA mice and even a graphics tablet) that I use with my Linux box >> (with a simple adaptor to bring the MMJ11/Mini-DIN plug into the DE9 >> world, along with the Linux drivers for that hardware.) > >I have no idea how hard DEC keyboards and mice are to find, but PC/PS2 >devices are VERY plentiful, and I would imagine that there must be others >with VAXen and not the keyboard/mouse - If there's enough interest, >(or I don't find a mouse), I'll persue it further. Around here within 10 miles of the greater Maynard area or teh home of DEC they are pretty common. The keyboard would be easy to just take a PC based keyboard with 8051 and reprogram it and change the connector. The mouse is less common but usually easy to track down as they only work on DEC systems. What can be difficult is the various cables and adaptors to get from the box to whatever. Also PC DB/DP RS232 pinouts and conventions are NOT the same as DEC. If your playing with DEC look for a VT1200, thats and IP/LAT based (etherpipe Xterm) graphic terminal that also work with DECwindows. I tend to use that rather than fuss with multiple individual VAX systems. Since all my VAXen are on a Ethernet backbone that terminal allows for connection to any of them as charater mode or DECwindows. Anotehr beastie to look for is microVAX2000, sometimes thought to be the most useless vax for speed and space. However it can format any MFM drive to DEC RQDX3 format (PC cannot) and also floppies either RX50 or RX33. With the right software it can bootload a VAXterm as an ethernet windows terminal. Oh and with an RD54 it can run VMS So long as it has at least 6mb and keep VMS below V5.5 for space on disk reasons. If it has more ram but only a tiny disk then MOP load (net boot) VMS from a host and use the local disk as either private storage or swap/page (or both). It's small, so preserve one. Allison

18 years, 7 months

1
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CFX-40

by akitaishi＠gmail.com

Hi , I am looking for a CFX-40 watch and was wondering if you still have any more Mint ones or new ones to sell ? I recalled your msg from a yahoo search but i reckon that it must be some time back. Regards, Jason

18 years, 7 months

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Mac 8100/200 is now suplus. Now Questions.

by jpero＠sympatico.ca

Just a moment and sorry that tube making didn't go to right emailng list but it was worth looking as this skill was the BASIS of making early tubes back then, in fact, hardly haven't changed at all and much of the refining went into increasing and making tube more sensitive and responsive. Now that is put aside... about the Mac that I no longer need anymore and sitting gathering dust. I tried to look around on ebay to see how much value on 8100/200 and google. no luck. Is anyone could take this Mac or in pieces? Have to ship. It's kind of upgraded in many areas: 2 HDs I think one is 2.1GB and other one unknown but i know both are 7200rpm (have to check) running OS 7.5 or something for speed. 192MB total of totally mixed memory, leaving 2 slots left and 256K cache stick. HPV video card 1MB with spare memory waiting to be filled up. CD 2X scsi as well. Been few years since I last used it, it's clean and running. Cheers, Wizard

18 years, 7 months

2
1
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H.P. VECTRA 286 / 12 battery

by RLAAG＠PACBELL.NET

I have a H.P. VECTRA 286 / 12 computer and seems to be loosing the battery... Is there any way to find the part number and is there any place to get one??? bob... RLAAG at PACBELL.NET

18 years, 7 months

1
0
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Tandberg 3820 wanted

by spectre＠floodgap.com

Anyone out there with a Tandberg 3800-series tape drive (TDC 3820 preferred) they'd be willing to sell? It needs to be firmware revision -07:01 or better (not = ... there's a difference). The PROM version should be printed on the back label under the manufacturing date, or you can open the top cover (T-10 screws) and read the label off the PROM sitting in the "cage". Let me know off list. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- The most valuable antiques are old friends. --------------------------------

18 years, 7 months

1
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Backing up VAX/VMS?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Backing up VAX/VMS? > From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:27:53 -0500 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Hi Guys, > >Recently acquired some VAXen - I have a soft spot in my heart >for VAX/VMS as I worked professionally as a user on a VAX/VMS >system for quite some years, however I have little to no >experience from a system administration standpoint. > >What I have: > >VAXstation 3100, currently running NETBSD >VAXserver 3100 - Installed hobby version of OPENvms on it. >VAXstation 4000 VLC - Has a full VMS 5.5 installed on it. >Datability VCP300 16-port LAT terminal server (The VLC >appears to load LAT networking when it boots, but I haven't >looked into it further yet) > >My immediate concern is that I'd like to make a full backup >of the VMS 5.5 on the VLC, and also attempt restoring it to >another drive. Not quite sure what the best way to go about >this is, and I want to make sure I *DON'T* cause any damage >to it in the process, so I'm looking for someone experienced >in VMS who can give be a bit of advice/guidance. > >I've got some documentation that I've dug up on the web >including a VMS administrators guide, and I also have the >full VMS 4.0 documentation set (about 3-feet of paper!). > >I've seen reference to booting stand-along BACKUP - I do have >the OPENvms install CD which appears to boot to a configuration >which can do stand-alone BACKUP (at least it can restore from a >backup image on the CD). > >Possible backup media that I have available: > - A pair of Exabyte HH-CTS 8mm DAT tape drives > - A SONY SDT-5010 4mm DAT tape drive > - SCSI ZIP Drive > - Another SCSI hard drive > >Are any of these feasable as a backup medium for VAX/VMS? >(All three of these machines have SCSI ports) If so, any pointers >as to how to configure the drives/media to be recognized and >accessable to the stand-alone backup, and info on how to perform >such a backup would be most appreciated. I'll probably pull the >original drive and install OPENvms to another drive for a "test >run" before I try and backup the original system. > For VMS: Backup /image to another SCSI disk is easiest (I clone VMS systems that way). Or backup /image to a tape large enough to hold an entire disk. I have a sony (DEC TLZ04) 4mm DAT and backing up to a spare disk is easiest and the resulting disk is bootable should the first one fail. Also you can install a second or even third scsi disk and have a multiple boot system. Just set the console to not boot the existing disk. Then you can issue a "bo DUAn". For NonVMS OS such as NetBSD I think you need to refer to the unix realm and do a backup using TAR (it's been years). > >Related topic: Keyboard/Mouse emulator? > >So far most of what I've been doing has been via a serial console, >however both the 4000 VLC and the VAXstation 3100 support keyboard >and mouse - The VLC has a VGA video connector, and I've found a >couple of LCD monitors supporting sync-on-green which work on it. >I've also scrounged up an LK-201 keyboard which works, and I'm >working on acquiring a DEC mouse ... I did figure out how to activate >"dead rodent mode" which lets me do mouse movements through the >keyboard, and DEC windows does come up and run! > >I found details of the keyboard and mouse protocol in the back of >a Microvax manual, and have been toying with the idea of building >a small embedded controller to take a PC (PS2) keyboard and mouse, >and emulate the DEC equivalents to the VAX - would anyone else be >interested in this? I have real DEC Hawley mice and use them with a VT1200 Xterm. Allison >Regards, >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

18 years, 7 months

1
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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:37:42 -0500 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >-------------Original Message: >Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:37:06 -0800 >From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> >Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > >> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:50:27 -0500 >> From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> > >> Anyway, one of the issues I have with the Teac FD-55GFR (1.2mb >> high-density; no schematic) drives Im using is that the motor runs all of >> the time (just like an 8 drive) but these late-model Teac drives dont >> have head relays, so the heads are engaged all of the time. > >Since the 8272/765 does drive "polling", you have to connect DRIVE >SELECT/ to DRIVE SELECT/. Connecting it to MOTOR ON/ would likely >have some odd effects. Recall also, that the 765 can do overlapped >seeks on multiple drives, which requires that the DRIVE SELECT/ line >be what it says it is. > >Which leaves you with connecting HEAD LOAD/ to MOTOR ON/; not a good >solution if you do a lot of multiple-drive operation (as CP/M floppy >systems are wont to do). Better would be to use a timer to monitor >the HEAD LOAD/ line and keep MOTOR ON/ active for a minute or so >after the last drive activity. A (or a couple) of NE555's should do >the trick. > >Recall that with the 55GFR, as the drive will not gate INDEX/ pulses >until it's determined that the diskette's come up to speed. (This, >BTW, is why hard-sector diskettes don't work in a 55GFR). So if >you'r getting INDEX/ pulses, the drive, by definition, is ready. Really, I'll have to tell my NS* it doesnt work.. mine seems to like it. >That's not to say that you couldn't get a GFR with a head-load >solenoid, but they're pretty uncommon. > >My take anyway. Never seen one with it and I've seen and have at elast five differnt versions including one with a door lock. Allison > >Cheers, >Chuck > >----------------Reply: > >That was going to be my last-ditch suggestion for the TEAC, putting a >one-shot delay on the /MOTOR ON line (Chuck, you know how I love 555s ;-). > >That delay on the 55GFR is not only a problem with hard-sector diskettes; >when I went through this exercise replacing 8" drives on my Cromemcos >(soft-sector), the GFR didn't work because the /DS -> /READY delay was >too long, even with the motor spinning. Tying /READY to ground made it >work and I suppose one could tie /READY to /DS with a diode if one >had no other drives available. > >Interestingly, Andrew Lynch apparently got a different version of the GFR >(-149 IIRC) to work on his Vector with HS disks, whereas my -159 never >goes ready at all with HS disks. > >The YE YD-380 does have a HL solenoid but AFAIK it's not separately >controllable; there's a pair of jumpers (HM & HS) that select whether >the head loads on /MOTOR ON or /DS. Nevertheless, it's probably >the closest to an 8" drive with a HL solenoid and constantly running >motor. > >One thing I've learned from trying to use 1.2Mb HD drives in anything >other than an AT is that among the dozen or so drives I tested there's >almost no consistency at all as far as jumper options and labelling, >/READY and /INDEX logic, etc. are concerned, even with different >versions of the same make and model. > >One of the most adaptable drive in my limited experience has actually >been the Panasonic JU-475 FWIW. > >mike >

18 years, 7 months

1
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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I?ve been busy lately rebuilding the floppy system on my IMSAI. I scrapped the Frugal Floppy 8? in favor of a CompuPro Disk 1 using 5.25? disks to emulate 8?. This has been a long running project, but with the assistance from someone on comp.os.cpm who went through the exact same process with nearly the same hardware, I?ve been able to create a brand new CP/M 2.2 master disk. Yeah! Anyway, one of the issues I have with the Teac FD-55GFR (1.2mb high-density; no schematic) drives I?m using is that the motor runs all of the time (just like an 8? drive) but these late-model Teac drives don?t have head relays, so the heads are engaged all of the time. I?m looking for some advice/whatever on engaging the motor when needed. The Disk 1 is based on an 8272 controller chip and it has a HDL (head_load) signal which, through jumpers can be made to appear on the *MOTOR signal pin of the standard IBM floppy disk interface. I tested the HDL signal and it activates at the right time, so its following the 8? sequence, but the pulse width leads me to believe that it?s too short to let the motor spin-up and go ?ready?. There is a way to control this with software...and I may go that route anyway...but has anyone done this sort of thing ? used a 5.25? HD drive to simulate an 8? drive and if so, which drives did you use? Any input appreciated. Thanks. Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

18 years, 7 months

3
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Creating new CP-M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

-------------Original Message: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:37:06 -0800 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> > Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:50:27 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> > > Anyway, one of the issues I have with the Teac FD-55GFR (1.2mb > high-density; no schematic) drives Im using is that the motor runs all of > the time (just like an 8 drive) but these late-model Teac drives dont > have head relays, so the heads are engaged all of the time. Since the 8272/765 does drive "polling", you have to connect DRIVE SELECT/ to DRIVE SELECT/. Connecting it to MOTOR ON/ would likely have some odd effects. Recall also, that the 765 can do overlapped seeks on multiple drives, which requires that the DRIVE SELECT/ line be what it says it is. Which leaves you with connecting HEAD LOAD/ to MOTOR ON/; not a good solution if you do a lot of multiple-drive operation (as CP/M floppy systems are wont to do). Better would be to use a timer to monitor the HEAD LOAD/ line and keep MOTOR ON/ active for a minute or so after the last drive activity. A (or a couple) of NE555's should do the trick. Recall that with the 55GFR, as the drive will not gate INDEX/ pulses until it's determined that the diskette's come up to speed. (This, BTW, is why hard-sector diskettes don't work in a 55GFR). So if you'r getting INDEX/ pulses, the drive, by definition, is ready. That's not to say that you couldn't get a GFR with a head-load solenoid, but they're pretty uncommon. My take anyway. Cheers, Chuck ----------------Reply: That was going to be my last-ditch suggestion for the TEAC, putting a one-shot delay on the /MOTOR ON line (Chuck, you know how I love 555s ;-). That delay on the 55GFR is not only a problem with hard-sector diskettes; when I went through this exercise replacing 8" drives on my Cromemcos (soft-sector), the GFR didn't work because the /DS -> /READY delay was too long, even with the motor spinning. Tying /READY to ground made it work and I suppose one could tie /READY to /DS with a diode if one had no other drives available. Interestingly, Andrew Lynch apparently got a different version of the GFR (-149 IIRC) to work on his Vector with HS disks, whereas my -159 never goes ready at all with HS disks. The YE YD-380 does have a HL solenoid but AFAIK it's not separately controllable; there's a pair of jumpers (HM & HS) that select whether the head loads on /MOTOR ON or /DS. Nevertheless, it's probably the closest to an 8" drive with a HL solenoid and constantly running motor. One thing I've learned from trying to use 1.2Mb HD drives in anything other than an AT is that among the dozen or so drives I tested there's almost no consistency at all as far as jumper options and labelling, /READY and /INDEX logic, etc. are concerned, even with different versions of the same make and model. One of the most adaptable drive in my limited experience has actually been the Panasonic JU-475 FWIW. mike -----REPLY----- Hi, Yes, I can attest to what Mike is saying regarding the TEAC FD-55GFR drives. I have gotten the TEAC FD-55GFR -149's, -193's, and -540's to work reading 16 sector hard sector media on my Vector Graphic with the VEDMCS. The frustrating thing is that the TEACs *almost* work perfectly. There still is a problem that if the motor turns off, sometimes I get a "BDOS error, drive not ready" message when accessing the drive. It seems the delay to read the drive is just a tad too short. Oddly enough, the VEDMCS doesn't even sense /READY pin 34 so it must be computing this value based on /INDEX or /READ or some other value. I think tying the /MOTOR line to ground might fix the problem but then the drives would be constantly spinning and I don't want that either. When I use the Panasonic JU-475-1, I don't have the problem. As a result, I am probably going to upgrade the Vector to the Panasonic JU-475 style drives since those are the only ones of several kinds I have tried that operate trouble free. Once you leave the AT standard, the HD drives vary a *lot* and there is no telling what will work short of just experimenting and testing. There are variations within brands and models, the jumpers have wildly varying meanings, if they are even there at all. Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 7 months

1
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inexpensive prototype boards with 22/44 pin edge connector

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi, Does anyone know where to get some inexpensive prototype boards with the 22/44 pin edge connectors? I am looking for something like DATAK or VELLEMAN boards preferably under $10 a piece. I have looked but have not been able to find any. Any hints would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 7 months

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SEL -> Gould

by aek＠bitsavers.org

'82-ish http://www.paralogos.com/DeadSuper/Misc/Gould.html The Powernode was a 32 bit machine that had pretty decent I/O performance for the time. Some docs came along with the shipment from Germany (no machine though..) Have it scanned, will try to get it up on bitsavers.

18 years, 7 months

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CROMEMCO: The "Cro'sNest" lives!

by rckuhmann＠charter.net

All: Re: CROMEMCO Looking for all manner of Cromemco (S100) items ...to buy or as contributions -- docs & manuals (paper or PDF), software & hardware. http://www.kuhmann.com/Cromemco/CrosNest.htm The above is my Silicon Valley memoir -- the long-time Sysop of the the "Cro'sNest RCPM-RBBS" 1977-1997 (formerly of Hayward CA & Sunnyvale CA, and France). Regards, Robert P.S. I have an implementation of MICAH CP/M 2.2 for the Z-2D (uses 16FDC). Seemed I saw someone was looking for that... P.P.S. My archives contain: S100, CP/M, CROMIX, Cromemo, uProcessor info, etc. -- all is on DVD's, e.g. (S100 2.0Gigs, Cromemco 4.3Gigs, CP/M 1.2Gigs, Vintage 3.54Gigs). Robert C. Kuhmann Delavan, WI USA

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by dm561＠torfree.net

-------------Original Message: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:37:06 -0800 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:50:27 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> > Anyway, one of the issues I have with the Teac FD-55GFR (1.2mb > high-density; no schematic) drives Im using is that the motor runs all of > the time (just like an 8 drive) but these late-model Teac drives dont > have head relays, so the heads are engaged all of the time. Since the 8272/765 does drive "polling", you have to connect DRIVE SELECT/ to DRIVE SELECT/. Connecting it to MOTOR ON/ would likely have some odd effects. Recall also, that the 765 can do overlapped seeks on multiple drives, which requires that the DRIVE SELECT/ line be what it says it is. Which leaves you with connecting HEAD LOAD/ to MOTOR ON/; not a good solution if you do a lot of multiple-drive operation (as CP/M floppy systems are wont to do). Better would be to use a timer to monitor the HEAD LOAD/ line and keep MOTOR ON/ active for a minute or so after the last drive activity. A (or a couple) of NE555's should do the trick. Recall that with the 55GFR, as the drive will not gate INDEX/ pulses until it's determined that the diskette's come up to speed. (This, BTW, is why hard-sector diskettes don't work in a 55GFR). So if you'r getting INDEX/ pulses, the drive, by definition, is ready. That's not to say that you couldn't get a GFR with a head-load solenoid, but they're pretty uncommon. My take anyway. Cheers, Chuck ----------------Reply: That was going to be my last-ditch suggestion for the TEAC, putting a one-shot delay on the /MOTOR ON line (Chuck, you know how I love 555s ;-). That delay on the 55GFR is not only a problem with hard-sector diskettes; when I went through this exercise replacing 8" drives on my Cromemcos (soft-sector), the GFR didn't work because the /DS -> /READY delay was too long, even with the motor spinning. Tying /READY to ground made it work and I suppose one could tie /READY to /DS with a diode if one had no other drives available. Interestingly, Andrew Lynch apparently got a different version of the GFR (-149 IIRC) to work on his Vector with HS disks, whereas my -159 never goes ready at all with HS disks. The YE YD-380 does have a HL solenoid but AFAIK it's not separately controllable; there's a pair of jumpers (HM & HS) that select whether the head loads on /MOTOR ON or /DS. Nevertheless, it's probably the closest to an 8" drive with a HL solenoid and constantly running motor. One thing I've learned from trying to use 1.2Mb HD drives in anything other than an AT is that among the dozen or so drives I tested there's almost no consistency at all as far as jumper options and labelling, /READY and /INDEX logic, etc. are concerned, even with different versions of the same make and model. One of the most adaptable drive in my limited experience has actually been the Panasonic JU-475 FWIW. mike

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:53:13 -0500 > To: "'cctech at classiccmp.org'" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:23:02 -0500 >From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> >Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > >>> As a matter of fact, the motor did run constantly on many 8" drives (remember >>> that many had 110V AC motors). >>> >>> m > >>Yes, but the heads engaged and disengaged to reduce wear. On modern drives, >>the heads remain engaged but the motor stops. > >--------- >Exactly; that's why you're having problems. But A & A seem to think there's >something wrong with /MOTOR ON being on constantly, which can be quite >normal on an 8" FDC. Some FDCs do have an option to latch it ON with pin 16 >and turn it OFF with pin 4 BTW. > Yes and when two sided drives were introduced the problem then was when the head were lowered they could "clap" the media can sometimes bite it. Two sided was a new set of problems. In the 5.25"world motors were a problem as they were DC brush motors that would wear both the brushes and the bearings (belt drive). Later drives like the FD55s have a direct drive DC brushless motor that has none of those problems. Anyone ever guess at how long the media lasts with the motor turning and head loaded in a clean environment? Months. Allison >m >

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:53:45 -0500 > To: "'cctech at classiccmp.org'" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >-----------Original Message: > >Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:58 -0500 >From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> >Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > >It must have been a fluke...I can't get the YE drive to operate reliably >either. The drive won't recal consistently. I might try lengthening the HL >time in software and then give it another shot. FYI if the drive is at track 79... you MUST issue recal twice as the 765 only issues 77 steps MAX to recal. So if you get a recal fail do it again and see if it works the second time (I bet it will). Also if the step rate is 3MS set the 765 for 4ms. Some of the floppies need a 6ms step rate and if stepped faster they will miss a step (or many). There are three controls in the 765 HLT (wait for head load) for those drives that load heads and to let the carriage settle, step rate and head unload time (rarely important). This is set with the Specify command. Allison >I may have to have to stick with the Teac drive and figure out a way to >control the heads by software. > >----------Reply: > >If you're talking about a YE Data YD-380 (no suffix; the -B and -C are >completely different drives), AFAIK it does not have the normal DC/RY >option. Instead, it has an RY jumper with no pins provided which, when >jumpered, puts out /READY on pin 4! > >mike

18 years, 7 months

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SEL advert

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> We have quite a bit of SEL documentation in the Computer History Museum >> archives. > > SEL as Standard Elektrik Lorenz? System Engineering Laboratories mini/supermini manufacturer

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------Original Message: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:58 -0500 From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI It must have been a fluke...I can't get the YE drive to operate reliably either. The drive won't recal consistently. I might try lengthening the HL time in software and then give it another shot. I may have to have to stick with the Teac drive and figure out a way to control the heads by software. ----------Reply: If you're talking about a YE Data YD-380 (no suffix; the -B and -C are completely different drives), AFAIK it does not have the normal DC/RY option. Instead, it has an RY jumper with no pins provided which, when jumpered, puts out /READY on pin 4! mike

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:23:02 -0500 From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI >> As a matter of fact, the motor did run constantly on many 8" drives (remember >> that many had 110V AC motors). >> >> m >Yes, but the heads engaged and disengaged to reduce wear. On modern drives, >the heads remain engaged but the motor stops. --------- Exactly; that's why you're having problems. But A & A seem to think there's something wrong with /MOTOR ON being on constantly, which can be quite normal on an 8" FDC. Some FDCs do have an option to latch it ON with pin 16 and turn it OFF with pin 4 BTW. m

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:50:27 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> > Anyway, one of the issues I have with the Teac FD-55GFR (1.2mb > high-density; no schematic) drives Im using is that the motor runs all of > the time (just like an 8 drive) but these late-model Teac drives dont > have head relays, so the heads are engaged all of the time. Since the 8272/765 does drive "polling", you have to connect DRIVE SELECT/ to DRIVE SELECT/. Connecting it to MOTOR ON/ would likely have some odd effects. Recall also, that the 765 can do overlapped seeks on multiple drives, which requires that the DRIVE SELECT/ line be what it says it is. Which leaves you with connecting HEAD LOAD/ to MOTOR ON/; not a good solution if you do a lot of multiple-drive operation (as CP/M floppy systems are wont to do). Better would be to use a timer to monitor the HEAD LOAD/ line and keep MOTOR ON/ active for a minute or so after the last drive activity. A (or a couple) of NE555's should do the trick. Recall that with the 55GFR, as the drive will not gate INDEX/ pulses until it's determined that the diskette's come up to speed. (This, BTW, is why hard-sector diskettes don't work in a 55GFR). So if you'r getting INDEX/ pulses, the drive, by definition, is ready. That's not to say that you couldn't get a GFR with a head-load solenoid, but they're pretty uncommon. My take anyway. Cheers, Chuck Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 7 months

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stuff needs rescue in Pasadena California

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

20 or so years worth of stuff needs to be gotten rid of NOW in Pasadena California. I can't take this one due to time and space issues. Email me at the below address or my ACM address (my first and last name followed by acm.org). Here are the highlights: * A mostly full set of Byte Magazine. * First and second year of PC Magazine. * An Altair with a homebrewed front panel. * Several PCjr keyboards still in boxes. * An external 8-inch floppy drive. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

18 years, 7 months

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OT: science debate

by evan＠snarc.net

http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php This is a petition to urge all of the US presidential candidates to have a debate about scientific policy. (Just fyi, since cctalk is NO place for political talk.)

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:14:09 -0500 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >-----------Original Message: >Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:50:27 -0500 >From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> >Subject: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > >All: > > I?ve been busy lately rebuilding the floppy system on my IMSAI. I >scrapped the Frugal Floppy 8? in favor of a CompuPro Disk 1 using 5.25? >disks to emulate 8?. This has been a long running project, but with the >assistance from someone on comp.os.cpm who went through the exact same >process with nearly the same hardware, I?ve been able to create a brand new >CP/M 2.2 master disk. Yeah! > > Anyway, one of the issues I have with the Teac FD-55GFR (1.2mb >high-density; no schematic) drives I?m using is that the motor runs all of >the time (just like an 8? drive) but these late-model Teac drives don?t have >head relays, so the heads are engaged all of the time. > > I?m looking for some advice/whatever on engaging the motor when needed. >The Disk 1 is based on an 8272 controller chip and it has a HDL (head_load) >signal which, through jumpers can be made to appear on the *MOTOR signal pin >of the standard IBM floppy disk interface. I tested the HDL signal and it >activates at the right time, so its following the 8? sequence, but the pulse >width leads me to believe that it?s too short to let the motor spin-up and >go ?ready?. Cannot use that as the HLT parameter is soo short for adaquate spinup time. You might get away with it though as the FD55GFRs do spinup fast. The Disk1 Didn't have a direct motor control port like the 1A but it did allow for using the latch used for serial output to be used as a general motor on. Find MotorENA on the schematic. > There is a way to control this with software...and I may go that route >anyway...but has anyone done this sort of thing < used a 5.25? HD drive to >simulate an 8? drive and if so, which drives did you use? The DISK1 serial port if not used as boot console is a 1 bit port that can be controlled with software. It's in the manual, switch S1-3. The manual covers all the things for 5.25" floppies. To do a read or write you set motor enable, wait 1sec then read or write and reset motor enable. To minimize starts and stops a timer of 10seconds or more is desireable. Its the way I'd do it using the DISK1 and have done it with the DISK1A. The disk1A has a differnt specific port for that which is part fo the 1 to 1A differences. Allison > > Any input appreciated. Thanks. > > >Rich > >---------------Reply: >There are several different OEM versions of the FD-55GFR with >various jumper options. > >If yours has one, put a jumper on the ML position and isolate the >/MOTOR ON signal somehow (tape over pin 16). > >You will also have to change the DC jumper to RY in order to get >a proper /READY signal. > >Whether it will ultimately actually work will depend on the controller; >there are more issues with 1.2HD drives than one would expect. > >mike >

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:22:38 -0300 From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI >> I?m looking for some advice/whatever on engaging the motor when needed. > How is DS0 line activated? As far as I know the sequence should be: > - Activate DS0, motor starts to run > - Activate "head load" so the heads can do their job > - Read/write > Since your motor is always on, seems that you have DS0 activated >permanently. Isn't something wired wrong? --------- As a matter of fact, the motor did run constantly on many 8" drives (remember that many had 110V AC motors). m

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI > From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:22:38 -0300 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >> I?m looking for some advice/whatever on engaging the motor when needed. Forst if you running motor only when needed you need a delay in software for the motor to come up to speed (1 sec does it). > How is DS0 line activated? As far as I know the sequence should be: > > - Activate DS0, motor starts to run > - Activate "head load" so the heads can do their job > - Read/write > > Since your motor is always on, seems that you have DS0 activated >permanently. Isn't something wired wrong? It's possible the connector is upside down. The other is the drive in use has a jumper for motor always on. Also DS0 (thats a zero right?) needs to be selected to read or write to the the zeroth drive. Allison

18 years, 7 months

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Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------Original Message: Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:50:27 -0500 From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> Subject: Creating new CP/M disks - Progress on IMSAI All: I?ve been busy lately rebuilding the floppy system on my IMSAI. I scrapped the Frugal Floppy 8? in favor of a CompuPro Disk 1 using 5.25? disks to emulate 8?. This has been a long running project, but with the assistance from someone on comp.os.cpm who went through the exact same process with nearly the same hardware, I?ve been able to create a brand new CP/M 2.2 master disk. Yeah! Anyway, one of the issues I have with the Teac FD-55GFR (1.2mb high-density; no schematic) drives I?m using is that the motor runs all of the time (just like an 8? drive) but these late-model Teac drives don?t have head relays, so the heads are engaged all of the time. I?m looking for some advice/whatever on engaging the motor when needed. The Disk 1 is based on an 8272 controller chip and it has a HDL (head_load) signal which, through jumpers can be made to appear on the *MOTOR signal pin of the standard IBM floppy disk interface. I tested the HDL signal and it activates at the right time, so its following the 8? sequence, but the pulse width leads me to believe that it?s too short to let the motor spin-up and go ?ready?. There is a way to control this with software...and I may go that route anyway...but has anyone done this sort of thing < used a 5.25? HD drive to simulate an 8? drive and if so, which drives did you use? Any input appreciated. Thanks. Rich ---------------Reply: There are several different OEM versions of the FD-55GFR with various jumper options. If yours has one, put a jumper on the ML position and isolate the /MOTOR ON signal somehow (tape over pin 16). You will also have to change the DC jumper to RY in order to get a proper /READY signal. Whether it will ultimately actually work will depend on the controller; there are more issues with 1.2HD drives than one would expect. mike

18 years, 7 months

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ST412 controller cables

by peter.hicks＠poggs.co.uk

Hello! In an attempt to resurrect an old Mitsubishi MR535R (RLL) drive, I managed to pick up an ST11M controller by accident - it was advertised on eBay as "MFM or RLL". Two things: 1) Does anyone have a spare set of control and data cables? I'm willing to pay for 'em, or visit Maplin for components to make up a set, since they're probably easy to make with IDC connectors and ribbon cable. 2) Does anyone happen to have a suitable RLL controller they're looking to get rid of, or could let me have access to one for a few hours? The 60Mb drive possibly contains some very old RM Net 3.1 software which I'd like to archive off, as there doesn't seem to be anyone at all - even at RM - who has any software left. I'd be happy to travel (within reason, I'm in London, UK) and exchange use of a controller card for beer/alcohol :) Cheers Peter -- Peter Hicks | e: my.name at poggs.co.uk | g: 0xE7C839F4 | w: www.poggs.com A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation Q: Why is top-posting bad?

18 years, 7 months

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Converting monochrome video signal to VGA monitor?

by markk＠clara.co.uk

Hi, I recently received a Commodore A2024 monitor. This is a 15" monochrome/ grey-scale monitor which has a special converter board inside, that converts the 15kHz video output by an Amiga computer to 31kHz. It also supports a "tiled" mode, whereby Amiga video frames are combined to produce a 1024x800 or 1024x1024 pixel image. Unfortunately the monitor was damaged in transit and the tube is cracked. However the converter board should be usable. I want to make an adaptor to connect the converter board to a standard VGA/multi-sync monitor. Has anyone on the list connected an old workstation (or maybe an Atari ST?) with monochrome output to a modern monitor? Those should be similar. There should be no problem with the horizontal and vertical scan rates. I need to look at the board circuitry, but I'm pretty sure the horizontal and vertical sync signals will be at TTL levels, which is fine for connection to a VGA monitor. The monochrome video signal is output on a phono/RCA socket. Inside the monitor, a coaxial cable goes from that to the PCB at the end of the tube. I need to determine the video signal level. Apparently VGA uses 0.7V p-p, so I might need to add a resistor in-line to reduce the voltage if it's any higher. Unfortunately I don't have access to an oscilloscope. Could I just arrange for a full-screen white image to be shown, measure the voltage using a normal DC multimeter, and multiply up the value shown to account for the proportion of each scanline corresponding to sync/flyback? Once that issue is solved, I should be able to connect the video signal to the green signal pin of a VGA monitor and get a green picture. In order to get a grey-scale picture, can I simply connect the video signal via resistors to each of the R, G and B pins on the monitor connector? If so, what resistor values would be needed? If not, I guess I could use or build a 1-to-3 splitter/amplifier circuit, then connect the 3 outputs of that to the R, G and B lines. -- M

18 years, 7 months

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Looking for old issues of Datamation, late 60's with Fairchild/SEL Advertisement

by ragooman＠comcast.net

I'm hoping somebody might have some old issues of Datamation from the late 60's. Somewhere around '68 there was an Ad by Fairchild semiconductor showing a SEL minicomputer. Hopefully I could get the original, or perhaps a scanned copy. I'm trying to locate this for some old friends, we all worked there, they were there from the very beginning. I/we would be grateful for any help. thanks, =Dan

18 years, 7 months

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(Someone's idea of) Worst Keyboards

by silent700＠gmail.com

On Jan 11, 2008 10:00 PM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > same reasons the author gave, ergonomics. But then in the 80's this > kind of thing was normal and none of us gave it a second thought. Yeah, maybe that's the problem I had with it. And I have to give him credit for mentioning the holy Model M as one of the best :)

18 years, 7 months

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(Someone's idea of) Worst Keyboards

by silent700＠gmail.com

OK, there are a couple that belong there and were expected, but a few missing, and some that make no sense at all. The C64?? Sure, I still hit Shift-2 on occasion for a quote, but I learned my mighty speed typing skills on that 'board. I think maybe the author(s) were raised on the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard, which IMHO should have been on the list: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,139100-page,1-c,keyboards/article.html

18 years, 7 months

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Free Pet / CBM and Disk Drive in Los Angeles

by Gary＠realtimecomp.com

What model, and where in LA? Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Mo > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:47 PM > To: Gary > Subject: Free Pet / CBM and Disk Drive in Los Angeles > > No, not a 2001. > > Pickup only. No shipping. > > Inquire within. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ __ > __________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > >

18 years, 7 months

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inexpensive prototype boards with 22/44 pin edge connector

by prd＠bur.st

> Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 23:58:20 -0500 > From: "Andrew Lynch" <lynchaj at yahoo.com> > Subject: inexpensive prototype boards with 22/44 pin edge connector > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <000e01c84e8e$6d61aee0$a903a8c0 at andrewdesktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, > > Does anyone know where to get some inexpensive prototype boards with the > 22/44 pin edge connectors? > > I am looking for something like DATAK or VELLEMAN boards preferably under > $10 a piece. > > I have looked but have not been able to find any. Any hints would be much > appreciated. Well, these boards are a bit over USD 10 each, but if you're after a versatile prototyping board that was edge connectors for the VIC 20, the C64, the C16/C116/Plus-4 and the Apple II line of computers, you might want to check out the '8 Bit Baby' at: http://www.protovision-online.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=97 You might find them a bit on the pricey side, but given the scarcity of these type of boards and the fact that you can use them to interface to several different types of computers, I reckon they're pretty good value for money. If you want to re-use them across projects, you can even solder strips of IC-style sockets to the 8 Bit Baby and build your circuits on daughter-boards instead. Hope this helps, Pete

18 years, 7 months

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Free Pet / CBM and Disk Drive in Los Angeles

by molists＠yahoo.com

No, not a 2001. Pickup only. No shipping. Inquire within. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

18 years, 7 months

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Atari SM124 and Composite Video

by stimpy.u.idiot＠gmail.com

Hi All, I have an Atari SM124 mono monitor with the crazy 13pin DIN plug. My investigations via google suggest it will take composite video on pin 2 - anyone know if that's right, and if so, could I use it with this Superboard II I've just been asked to revive? I'm assuming here the TV modulator on the Superboard takes a composite input, slap me if I'm wrong. Does anyone have a source for the female 13pin connectors, outside of gutting an ST? Cheers, Pete -- Pete Edwards "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" - Niels Bohr

18 years, 7 months

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Went down to the ETH today...

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Expect scans shortly ! very cool. CHM's Lilith thanks you!

18 years, 7 months

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IMSAI C&K Switches (was Looking for IMSAI 8080 CP-A Schematic)

by technobug＠comcast.net

> On Jan 5, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Roy J. Tellason wrote: > > >> On Saturday 05 January 2008 03:50, David Griffith wrote: >> >> And while we're on the subject of Imsai, does anybody have part >> numbers handy >> for those switches? I have several that are broken to replace. >> > > They are made by C & K. The 2-position ones are P/N 7101 and the > momentary are P/N 7105. You can order them from www.IMSAI.net for > between $11.00 and 12.00 a piece. Wandering through my inventory I came across a couple of dozen P/N 7101 SPDT (shown: <http://elipsoid.home.comcast.net/~elipsoid/ IMG_5567.JPG>). It appears that these switches have the attachment for paddles, but are missing said ingredient. However, there are lebenty-leben varieties of these switches (see: <http:// www.ittcannon.com/media/pdf/catalogs/Leaf/7000toggle.pdf>). Are these the switches used in the IMSAI and if so how many per unit? CRC

18 years, 7 months

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Comdyna GP-6 Analog Computer Schematics / Prints?

by root＠parse.com

Hi all, does anyone have any print sets, schematics, maintenance manuals, operation manuals, or anything for the Comdyna GP-6? I just got one but need the docs for it. If you would be so kind as to CC me in your reply; I'm no longer a regular subscriber to cctech... Thanks! Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices, http://www.parse.com/resume.html Wanted: DEC minis, see their good home at http://www.pdp12.org

18 years, 7 months

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Fwd: [alt.sys.pdp11] PDP11 equip for sale, Tape drives for free

by legalize＠xmission.com

This message has been forwarded from Usenet. To reply to the original author, use the email address from the forwarded message. Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:46:52 -0800 (PST) Groups: alt.sys.pdp11 From: will_kranz at softhome.net Org: http://groups.google.com Subject: PDP11 equip for sale, Tape drives for free Id: <03f08619-a296-4805-a559-12dd4e3e9bb8 at k2g2000hse.googlegroups.co m> ======== I've got to clear out mom's basement. I've put a web page together. see: http://www.willsworks.net/pdp11/forsale.htm Stuff's in Fairfield County, needs to either be picked up or you arrange shipping. Price negociable, but I want it to go to collectors first. Tape drives are huge and going to the dump this weekend if I don't hear >from anyone. Regards.

18 years, 7 months

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looking for some Kennedy 9100 boards

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

Hi, I know it's a long shot ... I am looking for the data terminator card and the control terminator card of a Kennedy 9100 tape drive. According to the doc, these small boards are also used in the Kennedy 9000. They are missing in my 9100. Thanks! Henk.

18 years, 7 months

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DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"?

by tpeters＠mixcom.com

At 08:48 PM 1/8/2008 -0800, you wrote: >On Jan 8, 2008 8:11 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: > > I well remember linking VAXes together and fighting with 2-metre loops of > > thick-wire ethernet while banging those damned metal brick transceivers > around, > > until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' (although the > > transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct in recalling it > was called > > the DEQNA?). > >DEQNA = Q-bus Ethernet (M7504), replaced by DELQA (M7516) and DESQA (M3127) > >Maybe you meant DELNI = Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect, >which had 8 local AUI ports. No, there was a box called DQUNA or something like that too-- I used DELNI and DQUNA boxes at a medical diagnostics manufacturer. I think maybe one of them was a thin-net concentrator??? ----- 399. [Pop Culture] A naked American man stole my balloons. --An American Werewolf in London --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531

18 years, 7 months

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Honeywell, Varian, and Teletype manuals for sale

by carlos＠navyaerospace.com

Dear Sir Please I need quote of price and lead time URGENT for the (CMM - HONEYWELL) parts following below EQUIPMENT MANUAL APPLICATION TRANSMITTER ELT HONEYWELL P/N: 1152682-1 MNUAL - CMM N. 23-24-01 EFIS DISPLAY CONT - P/N: 7012977-755 MNUAL - CMM N. 34-24-32 AUDIO PHASING - P/N: 064-1047-32 MNUAL - CMM N. 600-09381-0000 RADAR INDICATOR - P/N: CORRENT MNUAL - CMM N. 34-41-24 VSI - P/N: 066-5002-8102 MNUAL - CMM N. 34-45-25 MCDU - P/N: 82165-XXXXXX CORRENT MNUAL - CMM N. 34-53-07 TEST ON STS-100 AUTOMATED TEST EQUIPAMENT P/N: 7006326-XXX CORRENT HONEYWELL - SOFTWER P/N: MT7003360-9VR DISKETTE UUT N. 7003360-946 UUT DESCRIPTION AH-600 STRAPDOWN AHRU 01 SOFTWER FOR TEST SYSTEM - SPZ-6000 Please quote in OH, SV,REVISED - FLAT RATE EXCHANGE - With Form 8130 Please informe: Lead Time: Traceability: Warranty: Best regards and a have great day Carlos Silva General Manager N.A.S. Avionis Repairs Navy Aerospace CHE:0408-02/DAC (Ph.55-11-5044-3423 (Fx.55 -11-5044-1057 * Email: carlos at navyaerospace.com

18 years, 7 months

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DEC H8571-J MMJ adapters?

by Phillip.Guerra＠nkch.org

Toth, Don't know if you still have any of these connector kits, but I could use a few. Let me know, otherwise, I'll look elsewhere. We still use them for connecting to Lab instrumentation, and they always Have a way of breaking. Thanks, Phil Guerra > North Kansas City Hospital > Information Technology Enterprise Technologies phillip.guerra at nkch.org Toll Free Relay Phone: 866-797-5805 AOL IM: Mycroft2800 Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s), and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.

18 years, 7 months

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Warehouse in Vancouver, CA?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Hey, whatever happeend with that huge warehouse full of stuff up in Vancouver, BC? Wasn't someone going to go check it out in person? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

18 years, 7 months

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Microvax maintenance CDROM

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

The CDRom, manual and floppies are gone. On Jan 6, 2008 5:33 AM, Ed Groenenberg <quapla at xs4all.nl> wrote: > > > > Found during cleanup. > > > > 1 Microvax maintenance CDrom, contains the diagnostic software. > > Complete in caddy and grey storage case. > > (Dec partno AG-PCUSE-RE) > > I found a few more things which are related to the cdrom, > a diagnostics manual and a set (11) of 5.25 floppies in plastic > case. > > >

18 years, 7 months

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Warehouse in Vancouver, CA?

by ball.of.john＠gmail.com

> > Hey, whatever happeend with that huge warehouse full of stuff up in > Vancouver, BC? Wasn't someone going to go check it out in person? > I never heard about this. Sounds interesting though.

18 years, 7 months

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Fwd: [alt.sys.pdp8] LINC-8 on Wikipedia

by legalize＠xmission.com

This message has been forwarded from Usenet. To reply to the original author, use the email address from the forwarded message. Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:56:30 +0100 Groups: alt.sys.pdp8 From: Bjarni Juliusson <bjarni at update.uu.se> Org: Update Computer Club Subject: LINC-8 on Wikipedia Id: <fm3u1f$mp9$1 at Tempo.Update.UU.SE> ======== I created an article on Wikipedia about the LINC-8 and put what little information I could find into it. It would be great if some of you people could check it for errors and perhaps provide some citations. Bjarni -- INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE

18 years, 7 months

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MZOS ROM

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi Does anyone have an early model Vector Graphic computer with the MZOS ROM in it? It would be an early Vector Graphic computer (pre-1980) with 48K RAM. The MZOS ROM would be located at $C400-$C7FF. Even a hex dump from DDT would be useful or any other format I can convert. I need the MZOS ROM to be able to compute the sector checksum on some MZOS boot disks. Those disks are not readable with my VG machine or CWVG since they use a unique checksum algorithm. Actually, I can read the disks with CWVG but I cannot verify the contents of the sector with the checksum so I have no idea if the data is actually good or not. Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 7 months

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A note on Keyboard interfaces

by brain＠jbrain.com

For those with machines that have a way to plug into the KB matrix and want PS/2 keyboard support, I would suggest a derivative of C=Key (www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/c=key/). It acts like an 8x12 keyboard matrix to a vintage machine, no modifications to the machine are needed. As currently laid out, it's designed to work with the CBM VIC/64/128 series machines, but the source has been structured to allow easy retargeting to any KB matrix up to 8x12. On the PS/2 side, it decodes all incoming data and can send data to the PS/2 keyboard, such as resetting the KB and setting indicator LEDs. And, source code is under GPL, as is the design. I'm always up for a donation if you like the work, but I was once a starving collector too. The key is the MT8812 (or equivalent) cross point switch. However, it's overkill if you just need a serial or parallel output (PS2Encoder is much simpler). Note that, if you just need a PS2 KB to vintage machine interface, C=Key can be reduced in size and a much smaller uC can be used (you only need 8 data lines to run the Xpoint switch, 2 for the PS/2 interface, so a 14 pin or 20 pin uC will work fine. That's the same for the PS2Encoder. I used a 28 pin IC in the design as that was handy, but the design can work the smaller units. I'd be happy to help folks design new variations on the design for other systems (Atari and TI come to mind). Jim

18 years, 7 months

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Who's collection is that?

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

It seems Clarkson does not know that much about modern computers either. The following is from the latest SANS Newsbites. <Quote> --UK TV Host Learns a Lesson About Data Exposure (January 7 & 8, 2008)UK television personality Jeremy Clarkson put his money where his mouth is and lost GBP 500 (US $984). Clarkson published his bank account information to demonstrate that the media frenzy over lost HMRC data belonging to 25 million people was unwarranted. Clarkson was certain that no money could be transferred out of his account. However, one reader managed to set up a GBP 500 direct debit to a UK charity. Because of the Data Protection Act, there is no way for the bank to discover whoe stablished the direct debit, nor is there a way to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Clarkson has admitted he was wrong about the potential risks inherent in data exposure. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7174760.stmhttp://www.sunderlandec… </Quote> Message: 9 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:38:08 -0000 From: "Mike Hatch" <mike at brickfieldspark.org> Subject: Re: Re: Who's collection is that? To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> <snip> Jeremy Clarkson dos the BBC2 Top Gear motoring program, used to be a serious motoring program but in recent years has turned into a "boys toys lets see what stupid thing we can do with a car" program, funny all the same, a bit of light relief. I'm very surprised Bletchley Park let him near those machines, the BBC must have had to agree to serious contractual terms, Clarkson's comments are always controversial and he is renown for breaking things, especially that involving technology. I have to say I do agree with him sometimes. Mike. <snip>

18 years, 7 months

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Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by rtellason＠verizon.net

On Tuesday 08 January 2008 15:48, Enrico Lazzerini wrote: > > From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> > > > > There was some project article in Byte way back when, by Steve Ciarcia, > > which provided a peecee-type keyboard input (AT rather than PS/2 but that > > shouldn't make that much difference). The circuit to deal with this was > > very simple and elegant, though I can't remember any more just how it was > > done. > > > He didn't use a UART or similar, though, just a couple of MSI chips. > > And I remember thinking then how it wouldn't be all that hard to stuff an > > eprom between the output of that circuit (which gave you keycodes rather > > than characters) and have it spit out ASCII. > > > > Perhaps one of these days I'll run across the article again. > > Roy, > > here would be the list of articles by Steve Ciarcia > > http://www.devili.iki.fi/library/author/203.en.html > > May you try to find the exact article? That's an interesting list, and I'm sure that it will help narrow things down some, but I can't recall from just the title which article it was. The list will help me omit some of them, though. A while back I did a serious reduction in a lot of the old magazines that I had been keeping, and included in that was a bunch of Byte, not the real early ones, which I still have intact, but that period of time when they started to get rather bulky. I clipped a lot of articles out and kept them, and filled nine large trash bags with what I didnt want any more. Somewhere around here I have a couple of boxes that have those clipped articles in them, and once I find them and get the chance to go through them, I'll probably find the article I'm thinking of. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

18 years, 7 months

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Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

>> If anyone is interested, I have a very small bit of 8051 code which reads an >> attached PC keyboard, providing the scan codes over an RS-232 link. It also >> supports commands to set LEDs on/off etc. I specifically avoided using the >> P1 line in my design (full 8-bits parallel I/O available even on an 8031), >> so these are free, making it very trivial to modify this to output parallel >> instead of serial - it would also be very easy to add a translate table >> and recognition of shift/ctrl modifiers so that it would output fully decided >> ASCII. > have you just the code or even the circuit PCB layout? I've built up hand-wired prototypes, but I have not laid out a PCB. The schematic is just an 8051 with power/crystal attached, or an 8031 with external ROM and address latch as per any 8051/8031 datasheet. The PC keyboard clock and data lines are attached to the pins indicated in the comments in my code. If you want RS-232 levels, you need a level convertor (MAX232 etc.) on the 8051/31 RX/TX signals. > And have you an idea to how to transform the circuit from serial to > parallel? Instead of polling for TX ready and writing the scancode to SBUF, just write it to P1 (8-bit parallel output). You will also need a key-down strobe, which you can implement via another pin, using key-down scancodes to set, and key-up scancodes to clear. Assuming you want ASCII instead of scancodes, you would need a translate table (scancode to ASCII), and to recognize and track the state of the SHIFT, CTRL keys and CAPS-LOCK state, either using alternate translate tables (most flexible), or modifying the codes from one table accordingly. Implementing rollover properly requires a bit more logic - once you have processed a key-down, you must queue any other scancodes you receive until you get the corresponding key-up, then process the queued codes after you have released the strobe. You can get fancier, implementing auto-repeat etc. if you like, the logic is pretty straightforward (if key-down persists beyond the initial delay, begin toggling the strobe at the repeat rate). Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

18 years, 7 months

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Who's collection is that?

by mike＠brickfieldspark.org

Its the collection at Bletchley Park, the WW2 codebreaking site http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/edu/collect/computer.rhtm Enigma, Bombe, Colossus and all that. I need to get down there sometime and drool over the Elliott 803. Jeremy Clarkson dos the BBC2 Top Gear motoring program, used to be a serious motoring program but in recent years has turned into a "boys toys lets see what stupid thing we can do with a car" program, funny all the same, a bit of light relief. I'm very surprised Bletchley Park let him near those machines, the BBC must have had to agree to serious contractual terms, Clarkson's comments are always controversial and he is renown for breaking things, especially that involving technology. I have to say I do agree with him sometimes. Mike. > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:46:55 -0800 > From: "Marcin Wichary" <mwichary at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <1debc0350801081246y1f1cd0fdl49c2787493829c3d at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > It looks like the collection they have in Bletchley Park... > http://picasaweb.google.com/mwichary/BletchleyPark > Esp. this photo: > http://picasaweb.google.com/mwichary/BletchleyPark/photo#5007045881138292738, > although I was there a year and a half ago. > > Clarkson is actually pretty funny, usually. :) > > On Jan 8, 2008 12:30 PM, Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> wrote: > >> >> View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: >> >> http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html >> >> This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top >> Gear". I'm not familiar with it. >> >> But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And >> why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a >> hammer around all those vintage machines? >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> Festival >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> http://www.vintage.org >> >> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >> Computers >> ] >> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com <http://www.vintagetech.com/> || >> at >> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >> > > > > -- > Marcin Wichary > User interface designer, Google > Graphical User Interface gallery >> www.guidebookgallery.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:42:15 -0800 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Subject: Re: Wonder how useful this would be, MMC to floppy disk > adapter > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <47836FA7.5245.3E2F3BAD at cclist.sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:50:13 -0600 >> From: Choctaw Bob <bob099 at centurytel.net> > >> http://www.flash-memory-store.com/clearance-flashpath-mmc-floppy-disk-adap >> ter.html The FlashPath is a floppy disk adapter that lets you read and >> write data to your MultiMedia Card (MMC) using your computer's floppy >> disk >> drive. Sale Price $9.99 > > Dunno, but at that price, I couldn't resist ordering a couple. I'll > pop one open to see what makes it tick. Note that the floppy is > simply used as a coupling device--the gizmo requires installation of > drivers. > > I'm particularly interested to see if those drivers will work with a > USB drive (i.e. how general are they?)--the literature's not quite > clear on that; only that it doesn't work with PC Card drives. > > Thanks for the link. The Smartdisk.com web site doesn't seem to be > responding; let's hope it's temporary. > > Cheers, > Chuck > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:09:03 +0000 > From: Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <C3A996EF.153F1%witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > On 8/1/08 20:30, "Sellam Ismail" <sellam at vintagetech.com> wrote: > >> >> View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: >> >> http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html >> >> This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top >> Gear". I'm not familiar with it. > > It's an award-winning motoring show that polarises people's opinion on > Clarkson. Some, like me, think he's great and everyone else thinks he's a > <expletive deleted> > >> But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And >> why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a >> hammer around all those vintage machines? > > That's the old Block H museum at Bletchley Park and to be fair he's only > smashing up a Tecra :) That room is now the Large Machine room of the new > National Museum of Computing and we now have the entire run of H-Block > which > is the world's first purpose built computer room that housed the > codebreaking Colossus machines from Jan 1944. Jules will be along soon to > provide links etc that I can never remember! > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator > Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer > collection? > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:14:03 -0600 > From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4783E79B.1050507 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > Marcin Wichary wrote: >> It looks like the collection they have in Bletchley Park... > > Yes it is/was, although that was before my time there, so the vid's at > least > four years old. First time I've seen it too - I had no idea anyone > actually > let him do that right next to any of the 'real' machines! :-( > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:35:07 +0000 > From: Lawrence Wilkinson <ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk> > Subject: S/360 update > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <1199828107.20866.25.camel at ljw.me.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain > > I've just had a email from Bob Doran, who was one of my CompSci > professors at Auckland University. > > It seems that they (AU Comp Sci) have the front panel from my 360 which > they salvaged many years ago, and which is now becoming part of a lobby > display. > > So at least now I know something about what happened to it, but I > suspect that the rest of the system was scrapped. > > One part he's after for the panel is the centre Display Store Selection > rotary switch dials (there are two parts to the rotary switch), so if > anyone happens to know where there's a spare one, I'm sure he'd be > grateful! > (See the top picture at http://www.corestore.org/360.htm , thanks Mike!) > -- > Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk > The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:21:57 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <E1JCMpZ-0002Oo-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > In reading some stupid web site today that claimed to have a canonical > list of "top 50 arguments of computing" (e-week? someplace I normally > ignore), they had the "DEC vs. IBM" argument in which they claimed > that AS/400 was created as a "VAX killer" by IBM. > > Is this really true? I never heard of an AS/400 described that way. > > They also had some weird ideas about DEC vs. IBM networking described > in that argument, as if neither company supported TCP/IP until their > proprietary networks (DECnet and SNA) were forced to relinquish ground > to open protocols. > > OK, googling brings up the link. "Network World" is the culprit: > <http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/102607-arguments-dec-ibm.html?nwwpkg=…> > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:26:09 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <E1JCMtd-0002sz-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > OK, someone beat me to it (or saved me the trouble of scanning, not > sure which :-) on the CDC manual. Hrm. Did someone scan and > contribute to bitsavers and then sell it to me on ebay? > > <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/graphics/grid/PD82134500_GRID_Preliminary_Hard…> > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:07:07 -0500 > From: "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com> > Subject: Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4784021B.5060604 at atarimuseum.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I was at I think the 1990 or 1991 New York Computer Show at Jacob > Javitts and IBM had a booth setup with a ton of the small BA440 sized > AS400's and they were streaming video across a network onto a > presentation screen from one, running Novell on another, I thought > perhaps they were running a derivative of OS/2 (but I'm not totally > certain) and then running others with standard AS/400 apps on others. > > The IBM rep's were touting their abilities and DEC Vax's were mentioned > several times during the course of casual conversations I overheard > throughout the booth. They were really pushing the AS/400's as the end > all, beat all workhorse machine. > > > Curt > > > > Richard wrote: >> In reading some stupid web site today that claimed to have a canonical >> list of "top 50 arguments of computing" (e-week? someplace I normally >> ignore), they had the "DEC vs. IBM" argument in which they claimed >> that AS/400 was created as a "VAX killer" by IBM. >> >> Is this really true? I never heard of an AS/400 described that way. >> >> They also had some weird ideas about DEC vs. IBM networking described >> in that argument, as if neither company supported TCP/IP until their >> proprietary networks (DECnet and SNA) were forced to relinquish ground >> to open protocols. >> >> OK, googling brings up the link. "Network World" is the culprit: >> <http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/102607-arguments-dec-ibm.html?nwwpkg=…> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:13:32 +0000 > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> > Subject: Re: Wonder how useful this would be, MMC to floppy disk > adapter > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4784039C.1080302 at dunnington.plus.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 08/01/2008 20:42, Chuck Guzis wrote: > >>> http://www.flash-memory-store.com/clearance-flashpath-mmc-floppy-disk-adap >>> ter.html The FlashPath is a floppy disk adapter that lets you read and >>> write data to your MultiMedia Card (MMC) using your computer's floppy >>> disk >>> drive. Sale Price $9.99 >> >> Dunno, but at that price, I couldn't resist ordering a couple. I'll >> pop one open to see what makes it tick. Note that the floppy is >> simply used as a coupling device--the gizmo requires installation of >> drivers. >> >> I'm particularly interested to see if those drivers will work with a >> USB drive (i.e. how general are they?)--the literature's not quite >> clear on that; only that it doesn't work with PC Card drives. > > I remember those, but they're quite old. I was interested at the time > because I was was looking for a way to read cards from a digital camera, > but I rapidly discovered that it only worked with one particular version > of Windows (95, I think) and the support was non-existent. Absolutely > no way to make it work with Linux/Irix/Solaris/MS-DOS which was what I > wanted. So I decided to get a Sony camera that took 3.5" floppies > instead (that'll date it for you). > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:29:29 -0000 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini at iee.org> > Subject: RE: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <002201c8524e$51c8cce0$5b01a8c0 at uatempname> > > Richard wrote: >> In reading some stupid web site today that claimed to have a canonical >> list of "top 50 arguments of computing" (e-week? someplace I normally >> ignore), they had the "DEC vs. IBM" argument in which they claimed >> that AS/400 was created as a "VAX killer" by IBM. >> >> Is this really true? I never heard of an AS/400 described that way. > > The original "VAX killer" was the IBM 9370 (or so I was told > when I was working on a mixed DEC/IBM site back in the 1990s). > > I've never heard an AS400 described that way either, but by then > I was firmly entrenched at DEC sites (and then DEC) so I wouldn't > have been in a position to hear such gossip anyway. > > Wouldn't surprise me to hear the phrase re-used though. > > Antonio > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > 07/01/2008 09:14 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:50:12 -0800 > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Subject: re: CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <47840C34.8070207 at bitsavers.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > The scan was from a copy in the CHM archives. > > Do you have the same revision of this document? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:53:46 +0000 > From: jpero at sympatico.ca > Subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode. > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <6bpm1d$55ejur at toip4.srvr.bell.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > This is in french but the video is priceless! 17 minutes long. > Worth taking your favorite drink and take a seat. > > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht > ml > > Cheers, Wizard > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:54:15 +0000 > From: Peter Hicks <peter.hicks at poggs.co.uk> > Subject: ST412 controller cables > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <47840D27.9070307 at poggs.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Hello! > > In an attempt to resurrect an old Mitsubishi MR535R (RLL) drive, I managed > to > pick up an ST11M controller by accident - it was advertised on eBay as > "MFM or > RLL". > > Two things: > > 1) Does anyone have a spare set of control and data cables? I'm willing > to > pay for 'em, or visit Maplin for components to make up a set, since > they're > probably easy to make with IDC connectors and ribbon cable. > > 2) Does anyone happen to have a suitable RLL controller they're looking > to > get rid of, or could let me have access to one for a few hours? The 60Mb > drive > possibly contains some very old RM Net 3.1 software which I'd like to > archive > off, as there doesn't seem to be anyone at all - even at RM - who has any > software left. I'd be happy to travel (within reason, I'm in London, UK) > and > exchange use of a controller card for beer/alcohol :) > > Cheers > > > Peter > > -- > Peter Hicks | e: my.name at poggs.co.uk | g: 0xE7C839F4 | w: www.poggs.com > > A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation > Q: Why is top-posting bad? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:04:44 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> > Subject: Re: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode. > To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <C3A979CC.145AC%rcini at optonline.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > OMG, that is soooo amazing. Proof positive that you can make anything with > the proper tools. Mesmerizing. > > > On 1/8/08 1:53 PM, "jpero at sympatico.ca" <jpero at sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> This is in french but the video is priceless! 17 minutes long. >> Worth taking your favorite drink and take a seat. >> >> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht >> ml >> >> Cheers, Wizard > > Rich > > -- > Rich Cini > Collector of Classic Computers > Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator > http://www.altair32.com > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:11:00 -0500 > From: "Evan" <evan at snarc.net> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <200801090011.m090BUYG096960 at keith.ezwind.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Will read when I get home ... But Top Gear is a great show. > > Also ... "whose" ... you dumbass. :) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> > Subj: Who's collection is that? > Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:44 pm > Size: 821 bytes > To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: > > http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html > > This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top > Gear". I'm not familiar with it. > > But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And > why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a > hammer around all those vintage machines? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:34:48 -0000 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini at iee.org> > Subject: Who says you can't make your own vacuum tubes? > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <002901c85257$71db9ef0$5b01a8c0 at uatempname> > > This from Make (via slashdot): > > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.html > > There seems to be a bunch of paperwork on his site too (assuming you > count PDF as "paperwork"). > > Won't be too long before someone is building 7400 TTL replacements > chips in a garage somewhere! > > Antonio > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > 07/01/2008 09:14 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:37:42 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: Re: CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <E1JCOww-0006Iy-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > > In article <47840C34.8070207 at bitsavers.org>, > Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes: > >> The scan was from a copy in the CHM archives. >> >> Do you have the same revision of this document? > > I'll check the document numbers, but it looks identical, complete with > the same provisional hand-written notes and whatnot. > > The two short addendums to the manual are not present in that scan, so > I can scan those and upload them. > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:40:59 -0500 > From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net> > Subject: RE: Who's collection is that? > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <010e01c85258$4f6248a0$f750f945 at evan> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Crap ... I'm the dumbass ... meant to reply to Sellam directly. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Evan [mailto:evan at snarc.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:11 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > > > Will read when I get home ... But Top Gear is a great show. > > Also ... "whose" ... you dumbass. :) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> > Subj: Who's collection is that? > Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:44 pm > Size: 821 bytes > To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: > > http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html > > This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top > Gear". I'm not familiar with it. > > But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And > why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a > hammer around all those vintage machines? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:16:58 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Subject: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General at priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net, > "Discussion at priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Richard wrote: >> >> They also had some weird ideas about DEC vs. IBM networking described >> in that argument, as if neither company supported TCP/IP until their >> proprietary networks (DECnet and SNA) were forced to relinquish ground >> to open protocols. > > There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' > mean, and > how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that > argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own > 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at > least > above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in the > networking world in those days as it does today. > > There was also resistance to open protocols at the customer level if those > customers were already ensconced in the proprietary networks. A lot of > people > were looking only at their immediate needs rather than seeing the future > of an > 'interconnected world'. > > (As I've said before on the list) there was at least one third-party > producing > a TCP/IP stack for VMS before DEC got around to it. To my recollection, > IBM was > even later in taking up TCP/IP, although one might have to distinguish > between > mainframe and PC stuff. > > Put another way, DEC and IBM didn't support TCP/IP until they 'had to' (as > in > market forces). > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:27:20 -0600 > From: "Michael B. Brutman" <mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com> > Subject: Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <478422F8.3060100 at brutman.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > I don't know if IBM created the AS/400 as a VAX killer. I doubt it. > > The AS/400 is a direct descendent of the S/38. The S/38 was designed > and built by the people who brought you the S/36, S/34, and earlier > machines. The IBM plant that built those machines and related equipment > has been in Rochester MN since the late 1950s. > > Both series of machines competed in the mid-range market. I don't think > that IBM has 'won' the mid-range market with the AS/400 and iSeries. I > think it is just the last player standing in that market, with Unix > machines having done serious damage to all of the players. > > > Mike > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:20:43 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <E1JCRUh-0004D0-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > > In article <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca>, > Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes: > >> There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' >> mean, a > nd >> how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that >> argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> least >> above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in the >> networking world in those days as it does today. > > But wasn't DEC instrumental in helping ethernet succeed? See the > history section of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet>. Or am I > confusing ethernet (physical layer) with tcp/ip (protocol layer)? > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:32:50 -0500 > From: "John Floren" <slawmaster at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <7d3530220801081932j497f341bw5be32cfc51fd2dbf at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 1/8/08, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote: >> >> In article <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca>, >> Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes: >> >> > There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' >> > mean, a >> nd >> > how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that >> > argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> > 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> > least >> > above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in >> > the >> > networking world in those days as it does today. >> >> But wasn't DEC instrumental in helping ethernet succeed? See the >> history section of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet>. Or am I >> confusing ethernet (physical layer) with tcp/ip (protocol layer)? > > DECnet runs over ethernet. Plan 9's IL protocol (used instead of tcp > in the early days) runs over ethernet. I think you're confusing > physical layer with protocol layer :) > > John > -- > Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:11:11 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General at priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net, > "Discussion at priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <47844960.20BB087F at cs.ubc.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Richard wrote: >> >> In article <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca>, >> Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes: >> >> > There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' >> > mean, a >> nd >> > how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that >> > argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> > 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> > least >> > above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in >> > the >> > networking world in those days as it does today. >> >> But wasn't DEC instrumental in helping ethernet succeed? See the >> history section of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet>. Or am I >> confusing ethernet (physical layer) with tcp/ip (protocol layer)? > > Yes, ethernet was precisely what I had in mind as I added that little "at > least > above the link level" clause to my comment. > Ethernet is quite distinct from TCP/IP, it's just another link type as far > as > IP is concerned. DEC latched on to ethernet quite early to use as a > (choice of) > link layer for DECnet. > > It is kind of funny that manufacturers could agree on physical & frame > level > stuff (RS232,HDLC,ethernet,etc.) but then had to go their own way in the > higher > layers. > Or one might say that agreement started at the physical level, and it just > took > time to go up the stack getting agreement along the way. (Or else it's > just > easier to be proprietary in software than hardware.) > > I well remember linking VAXes together and fighting with 2-metre loops of > thick-wire ethernet while banging those damned metal brick transceivers > around, > until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' (although the > transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct in recalling it was > called > the DEQNA?). > Youngsters out there should be grateful they don't have to wire their home > machines together with thick-wire... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:48:35 -0800 > From: "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <1e1fc3e90801082048v4bc0edb3iedef778f37cb4b91 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Jan 8, 2008 8:11 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: >> I well remember linking VAXes together and fighting with 2-metre loops of >> thick-wire ethernet while banging those damned metal brick transceivers >> around, >> until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' (although >> the >> transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct in recalling it was >> called >> the DEQNA?). > > DEQNA = Q-bus Ethernet (M7504), replaced by DELQA (M7516) and DESQA > (M3127) > > Maybe you meant DELNI = Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect, > which had 8 local AUI ports. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:46:53 -0500 (EST) > From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <200801090451.XAA07683 at Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> least above the link level. > > In Montreal, in the days before Teh Internet, each of the four > universities here was using IP internally, but had no IP connectivity > outside themselves. Then DEC, presumably trying to earn some kind of > PR brownie points in support of higher education or some such, donated > routers and leased lines to tie them together - but the routers were > DECnet-only. (I proceeded to use IP/DECnet dual-stack Ultrix machines > to turn this DECnet-only infrastructure into an IP transport...I don't > know how DEC felt about this nose-thumbing at their attempt to lock us > into their proprietary way, but the CRIM treated it as a feature, so it > would have been impolitic for DEC to grumble publicly.) > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:52:06 -0500 (EST) > From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <200801090454.XAA07715 at Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> [...] until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' >> (although the transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct >> in recalling it was called the DEQNA?). > > No. The DEQNA is a Q-bus Ethernet card. (I don't remember DEC's name > for their AUI hub, but I know the DEQNA.) > >> Youngsters out there should be grateful they don't have to wire their >> home machines together with thick-wire... > > Aye. Thicknet was difficult to run and (at least in my exprience) the > transceiver/cable connection was horribly finicky. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:22:31 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General at priv-edtnaa04.telusplanet.net, > "Discussion at priv-edtnaa04.telusplanet.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <47845A18.E9CAB113 at cs.ubc.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Glen Slick wrote: >> >> On Jan 8, 2008 8:11 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: >> > I well remember linking VAXes together and fighting with 2-metre loops >> > of >> > thick-wire ethernet while banging those damned metal brick transceivers >> > around, >> > until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' (although >> > the >> > transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct in recalling it >> > was called >> > the DEQNA?). >> >> DEQNA = Q-bus Ethernet (M7504), replaced by DELQA (M7516) and DESQA >> (M3127) >> >> Maybe you meant DELNI = Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect, >> which had 8 local AUI ports. > > Thanks for the correction. I think I've heard "DEQNA" in recent years and > it > was supplanting the memory of "DELNI", which I haven't heard in years. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:12:07 -0500 > From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <478473C7.3010004 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > der Mouse wrote: >>> [...] until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' >>> (although the transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct >>> in recalling it was called the DEQNA?). >> >> No. The DEQNA is a Q-bus Ethernet card. (I don't remember DEC's name >> for their AUI hub, but I know the DEQNA.) > > DELNI? > > Peace... Sridhar > > > End of cctalk Digest, Vol 53, Issue 17 > ************************************** > >

18 years, 7 months

1
0
0 0

Who's collection is that?

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Ah you underestimate the power of TV. They would have of course been insured. If they thought it would make good TV they could have copied the room onto a set, bought up old systems and had him trash the lot! Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson Sent: 08 January 2008 21:14 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? Marcin Wichary wrote: > It looks like the collection they have in Bletchley Park... Yes it is/was, although that was before my time there, so the vid's at least four years old. First time I've seen it too - I had no idea anyone actually let him do that right next to any of the 'real' machines! :-(

18 years, 7 months

1
0
0 0

Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by brain＠jbrain.com

Enrico Lazzerini wrote: > > > Jim, > > i need just this, I don't care to see the caps lock led turning on or off!! > > But the schematic indicated to that link, it appear to be a theoric > schematic. > > I really have not time to testing circuit or verify how it works. > > So anybody has an idea of a pratical circuit working? > Yes, the schematic won't work as-is (it's only 10 bits, and PS/2 uses 11 (start, parity, stop, 8 bits) and as Holger notes, it just delivers PS/2 Set 2 scan codes, which are horrid (voice of recent experience) But, the design I already sent you will do exactly what you wish. One Atmel Mega8 (or a Tiny24 would work, though I don't have any here to test the code). Is there something else you're looking for? I modified the PS2Encoder design on the web site (http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/PS2Encoder) to offer a truly generic one (all data lines come to a 2x13 header, and the PS/2 connector is already on the board.) I know the design works, as I tested the code before I sent someone on the list a version for a FlashWriter II KB interface. > Holger, > > it's exactly what i'm looking for. So may you give your help? What PIC to > use? > > I have a PS2 Keyboard and when I press the character A I need to have the > > binary code 41H that means 0100 0001B on eight wires plus a strobe line. > > Only in this direction. Is it possible? > > Thanks > > Enrico > Dave's code will work (though you'll need to write some additional 8051 code to do the parallel output, should be trivial. My code will work, and outputs 41H when a A is sent (Actually, I think it sends lowercase a, but I can change the mappings in a few minutes if that's an issue) Holger is speaking theoretically, without any specific design in mind, I believe. Jim

18 years, 7 months

1
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Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

Hi at all, as many will have understood, i'd like to make my BigBoard 1 alive again. I need for a ASCII parallel keyboard. Many years ago (exactly 20 ones) I got a old cherry keyboard; I open it and rebuilt all its rows and colums to be the inputs for a KR-2376 keyboard encoder. I had much more time.. I though to realize an economical interface to convert signal coming from a PS/2 keyboard and convert each codes in parallel standard (data 0 to 7 plus strobe signal). Here there is a schematic already suggested http://eece.ksu.edu/~eece696/beta/digital/A/stop.htm but could it works? What could be the exact schematic and hardware to use? And at the last is there anything "ready-to-use" cause I have not much time to spend to build it? Thanks to all will answer. Regards Enrico

18 years, 7 months

5
5
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Who's collection is that?

by evan＠snarc.net

Will read when I get home ... But Top Gear is a great show. Also ... "whose" ... you dumbass. :) -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> Subj: Who's collection is that? Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:44 pm Size: 821 bytes To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top Gear". I'm not familiar with it. But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a hammer around all those vintage machines? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 7 months

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CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online

by aek＠bitsavers.org

The scan was from a copy in the CHM archives. Do you have the same revision of this document?

18 years, 7 months

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Wonder how useful this would be, MMC to floppy disk adapter

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:50:13 -0600 > From: Choctaw Bob <bob099 at centurytel.net> > http://www.flash-memory-store.com/clearance-flashpath-mmc-floppy-disk-adap > ter.html The FlashPath is a floppy disk adapter that lets you read and > write data to your MultiMedia Card (MMC) using your computer's floppy disk > drive. Sale Price $9.99 Dunno, but at that price, I couldn't resist ordering a couple. I'll pop one open to see what makes it tick. Note that the floppy is simply used as a coupling device--the gizmo requires installation of drivers. I'm particularly interested to see if those drivers will work with a USB drive (i.e. how general are they?)--the literature's not quite clear on that; only that it doesn't work with PC Card drives. Thanks for the link. The Smartdisk.com web site doesn't seem to be responding; let's hope it's temporary. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 7 months

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CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online

by legalize＠xmission.com

OK, someone beat me to it (or saved me the trouble of scanning, not sure which :-) on the CDC manual. Hrm. Did someone scan and contribute to bitsavers and then sell it to me on ebay? <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/graphics/grid/PD82134500_GRID_Preliminary_Hard…> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

18 years, 7 months

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S/360 update

by ljw-cctech＠ljw.me.uk

I've just had a email from Bob Doran, who was one of my CompSci professors at Auckland University. It seems that they (AU Comp Sci) have the front panel from my 360 which they salvaged many years ago, and which is now becoming part of a lobby display. So at least now I know something about what happened to it, but I suspect that the rest of the system was scrapped. One part he's after for the panel is the centre Display Store Selection rotary switch dials (there are two parts to the rotary switch), so if anyone happens to know where there's a spare one, I'm sure he'd be grateful! (See the top picture at http://www.corestore.org/360.htm , thanks Mike!) -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360

18 years, 7 months

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Who's collection is that?

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top Gear". I'm not familiar with it. But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a hammer around all those vintage machines? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 7 months

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Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

I report each part of different emails whit my question: From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> There was some project article in Byte way back when, by Steve Ciarcia, which provided a peecee-type keyboard input (AT rather than PS/2 but that shouldn't make that much difference). The circuit to deal with this was very simple and elegant, though I can't remember any more just how it was done. He didn't use a UART or similar, though, just a couple of MSI chips. And I remember thinking then how it wouldn't be all that hard to stuff an eprom between the output of that circuit (which gave you keycodes rather than characters) and have it spit out ASCII. Perhaps one of these days I'll run across the article again. Roy, here would be the list of articles by Steve Ciarcia http://www.devili.iki.fi/library/author/203.en.html May you try to find the exact article? Enrico From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> If anyone is interested, I have a very small bit of 8051 code which reads an attached PC keyboard, providing the scan codes over an RS-232 link. It also supports commands to set LEDs on/off etc. I specifically avoided using the P1 line in my design (full 8-bits parallel I/O available even on an 8031), so these are free, making it very trivial to modify this to output parallel instead of serial - it would also be very easy to add a translate table and recognition of shift/ctrl modifiers so that it would output fully decided ASCII. Dave , have you just the code or even the circuit PCB layout? And have you an idea to how to transform the circuit from serial to parallel? Enrico From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> If you didn't care about sending codes back to the keyboard, then you'd just need an 11 bit shift register. The previously mentioned <http://eece.ksu.edu/~eece696/beta/digital/A/stop.htm> http://eece.ksu.edu/~eece696/beta/digital/A/stop.htm is almost there, it just needs 1 more F/F 2 LS174s would work for the F/Fs. the CLK line needs to be inverted, but you can probably get away without doing it. A divide by 11 counter (LS163 with and AND on bit 0,1 and 3 driving CLR) should do the trick. Jim, i need just this, I don't care to see the caps lock led turning on or off!! But the schematic indicated to that link, it appear to be a theoric schematic. I really have not time to testing circuit or verify how it works. So anybody has an idea of a pratical circuit working? Thanks Enrico From: Holger Veit <holger.veit at iais.fraunhofer.de> No, I am not yet at a point to use a microcontroller just to blink a LED, which have been done with two cross coupled transistors in the past, but a PIC is meanwhile the more compact, easier, more flexible solution to "convert-from-A-to-B" problems. Holger, it's exactly what i'm looking for. So may you give your help? What PIC to use? I have a PS2 Keyboard and when I press the character A I need to have the binary code 41H that means 0100 0001B on eight wires plus a strobe line. Only in this direction. Is it possible? Thanks Enrico

18 years, 7 months

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