- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Reverse-engineering Snap (Panasonic HHC)

by eric＠brouhaha.com

I've confirmed my earlier guess that Snap uses bytecode rather than pointers as a normal FORTH. The BRK instruction ($00) is used for entry into Snap, and is followed by bytecodes. The interrupt handler checks the B flag to see if a BRK occurred. If so, it pulls the PC from the stack into registers, subtracts one, and stores it into the Snap instruction pointer at $0015/16. The BRK handler and Snap primitives end with a jump to NEXT at $0009, which points to $CC2E. The code there fetches the byte pointed to by the Snap instruction pointer, and depending on the two high order bits, jumps indirect via jump tables from $c000-$c0ff, $c100-$c17f, or $0000-$007f. At least, that's what happens if the contents of $66 is zero. If it's non-zero, it goes somewhere else, and I haven't figured out what's up with that. Anyone else ever dig into the innards of Snap? Eric

18 years, 5 months

5
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Looking for a M8330 or a couple of SN74194's

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi Tony I agree that the concept of originality is important in what we do. The system I have is original in the sense that all the parts are >from the right era. However the current configuration is not that as stated on the factory label. You could also say that any item with a date of later than the manufacturing date and not the result of a repair or upgrade is not original. Thanks for the tip re Cricklewood I will contact them. I must say that for the few days it did work I was really pleased with it. I had got as far as sending a stream of characters out to a screen at 110 Baud. I had forgotten how few instructions you needed to get it to do something useful. I actually used to service PDP8's at Harwell circa 1971. The first type had a large number of small boards with transistor based logic on them. The other type were as the one I have, using mainly TTL plus something that needs +3 Volts. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: 27 March 2008 22:25 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Looking for a M8330 or a couple of SN74194's > Now I need either a couple of 74194's or an M8330 board.=20 The former being a lot easier to find than the latter, quite apart from the moral aspect of keeping the machine as original as possible. I don;t know if they have them, but have you tried Cricklewood Electronics? They had some 74(LS)95 chips when I needed them to repair an old HP machine, and seem to be the only place that did. -tony

18 years, 5 months

2
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Looking for info on VT284 and VT286

by a-kelavkar1＠ti.com

Sir, Do you VT286 units in stock? Price? Thanks, Abhi Texas Instruments (Houston) 281-274-2917

18 years, 5 months

1
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ROM BIOS

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:12:02 -0500 > From: Randy Dawson > IBM's software would not run on a machine that did not have "copyright > IBM" in the BIOS. > > hahaha their workaround made them the most compatible clone. Actually, a lot of people spent a lot of time reverse-engineering the IBM BIOS. You really don't get a sense of this until you realize that Phoenix not only made sure that the functionality of the BIOS routines was the same, but that the routines themselves were located at the same place in memory. I wonder why this wasn't done with the Mac ROMs? Fear of Apple suing? Anyone know for certain? Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 55, Issue 42

by ccrodie＠bellsouth.net

> >Does anyone out there have a datasheet and/or programming info (register > >addressing scheme) for the Mostek MK3801 multi-function I/O device (a > >Z80 peripheral)? I can't find one anywhere. (Info for MK68901 and > >other "derivatives" is available, but these devices are apparently not > >clones.) Any help much appreciated. > >Chris R. > ------ > You're not thinking of the MK3881 by any chance? I've sure misread 8s > & 0s > a few times... > > mike No, it's really an MK3801 that's of interest. Thanks for asking. Chris R.

18 years, 5 months

1
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Another trip to the storage locker

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I went to my storage locker again yesterday, and retrieved a few more goodies: - VAX-11/730 (R80, RL02) - MINC-11 - VT50 I won't mess with these much until I make some more progress on my current projects, but it's good to have them at home. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

18 years, 5 months

1
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Need MK3801 datasheet

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:15:59 -0400 From: Chris Rodie <ccrodie at bellsouth.net> Subject: Need MK3801 datasheet >Does anyone out there have a datasheet and/or programming info (register >addressing scheme) for the Mostek MK3801 multi-function I/O device (a >Z80 peripheral)? I can't find one anywhere. (Info for MK68901 and >other "derivatives" is available, but these devices are apparently not >clones.) Any help much appreciated. >Chris R. ------ You're not thinking of the MK3881 by any chance? I've sure misread 8s & 0s a few times... mike

18 years, 5 months

1
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Need MK3801 datasheet

by ccrodie＠bellsouth.net

> > Chris Rodie wrote: > > Does anyone out there have a datasheet and/or programming info > > (register addressing scheme) for the Mostek MK3801 multi-function I/O > > device (a Z80 peripheral)? I can't find one anywhere. (Info for > > MK68901 and other "derivatives" is available, but these devices are > > apparently not clones.) Any help much appreciated. > > > > Chris R. > > > > > I have MOSTEK 1982/1983 Microelectronic Data Book that has 15 pages on > the MK3801. Would scanning that help you? Do you need everything or > > just part - takes time to scan of course... > > John :-#)# John, Many thanks for the offer. If you would scan just the pages with the register set description that would be sufficient. Chris R.

18 years, 5 months

1
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ROM BIOS

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:33:20 -0500 > From: Jim Leonard > I have a BIOS listing of the PCjr (techref is in front of me); I will look > at the listing to see if I can see obvious places where this would result > in a savings. Thanks for the discussion and history. I first noticed this when I first looked at the PC AT techref. "Why the heck did they code (fill in a routine name) in two pieces like that?" I asked myself. After I grabbled the PC 5150 techref it was obvious. Later, when I got the Phoenix BIOS books, routine locations were called out specifically in the literature, so I wasn't dreaming. I can well imagine that it's useful to some code to know the locations of entry points and ISRs. There was initially no standard convention for "hooking" interrupt vectors, so knowing where the default one was might be useful. I can think of at least one instance where that might be useful--reverse-engineering protection. Calling the ROM BIOS directly precludes a snoopy programmer from just hooking the INT 13H vector and logging a program's disk activity. When I was unraveling copy protection from some of the original PC games, I found having my own custom-hacked BIOS ROMs for such stuff very handy indeed. I do know that the convention continued into the PS/2 line--and, a spot check on the system I've got in front of me (an HP P4-equipped model) shows that the INT 10h vector still points to F000:F065; INT 16h points to F000:E82E--the same addresses used on the original 5150. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

1
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Research Unix v9, v10

by slawmaster＠gmail.com

On 3/28/08, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > > Doesn't Ultrix support early models of the VAXstation 3100? I don't > believe it supports any model in the 4000 series. I honestly don't > know, the tapes I have are V1 or V2, and only support MicroVAX I & II > systems. I've only tried to run Ultrix on MIPS-based DECstation > 5000/133 (the system was actually purchased to run NetBSD). As I've > said before, I like my Unix nice and fast, and prefer to run > interesting OS's on PDP-11's, VAXen, and Alpha's. If it's a VAX, it > should be running VMS. > > Zane > I already have VMS on my Alpha and the VAX; if I can't get Research Unix on the VAX, I'll stay with VMS. The later additions to Research Unix evolved in some interesting directions which eventually led to Plan 9, the OS I develop for at work. I'd love to find a Blit (AT&T/Teletype model 5620) terminal and a VAX capable of running v10; that was a brilliant system. John -- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

18 years, 5 months

1
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FTGH: Stuff!

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Hi Joseph, as I told you in a former eMail, which probably miss you, I am interested on your TI-99/4a. So, could you think about shipping it to Austria/Europe, I will pay packing and shipping, no question. Thanks for any answer Gerhard gerhard.kreuzer at liftoff.at[1] Links: ------ [1] mailto:gerhard.kreuzer at liftoff.at

18 years, 5 months

1
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M8330 or SN74194 needed.

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Hi Rod, ? ?maybe I can help. I have a M8330 board, but status is unknown and I? think I also have sn74194s, but I have to search for them. ? ?How shure you are about this diagnose, did you take some? measuremens with an oszilloscope or similar? ? ?With best regards ? ?Gerhard

18 years, 5 months

1
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HP150 and HP110 systems free to good home

by pneubauer＠bluerwhite.org

I have complete HP150 and HP110 systems that I would like to give to a collector. I am relocating and do not have the space for these machines anymore. Here's a summary of what I have: An HP150 system in good working condition - built-in thermal printer - dual HP-IB floppy drives - HP-IL/parallel expansion card - tilt-swivel base - keyboard - Thinkjet printer (HP-IB interface) - all HP-IB cables - lots of software and manuals, including original system, demo, Memomaker, Lotus 1-2-3, Visicalc, and calculator disks, among others - lots of manuals, including original system and DOS manuals, among others - The HP Museum (http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=43) has details on the HP150 An HP110 system in non-working condition - the system has a bad memory chip somewhere in the RAM disk; the system boots and runs; the system diagnostics identify the bad chip; the RAM disk does not reliably retain data - two HP-IL floppy drives - Thinkjet printer (HP-IL) - all HP-IL cables - all power adapters - original system and software disks - original manuals - The HP Museum (http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=48) has details on the HP110 I also have a TRS-80 Model III (no floppy drives), an IBM PC/XT keyboard (a heavy metal keyboard, PN#1801449), and an IBM 5152 Personal Computer Graphics Printer. Everything is boxed up at the moment. If you are interested, I will unbox them and provide details. I won't charge anything to pass the systems onto a collector who can pick them up in Phoenix, AZ USA. Please send me an e-mail if you're interested in anything. Thank you, -Peter Neubauer

18 years, 5 months

1
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Need MK3801 datasheet

by ccrodie＠bellsouth.net

Does anyone out there have a datasheet and/or programming info (register addressing scheme) for the Mostek MK3801 multi-function I/O device (a Z80 peripheral)? I can't find one anywhere. (Info for MK68901 and other "derivatives" is available, but these devices are apparently not clones.) Any help much appreciated. Chris R.

18 years, 5 months

2
1
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advent sources?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

trolling through some old mit backups... I found a copy of "advent" fortran source from 1979. Is that interesting to anyone? It looks more complex than the Crowther sources but I have no idea. I also found a file with PDP-6 Space war sources. Anyone interested? It mentions a "340" display. It's an ITS "ar" file which I think would be easy to pull apart back into ascii files. -brad

18 years, 5 months

7
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mystery chip 608C62

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:53:38 -0500 > From: Randy Dawson > come on stop it guys > its a standard 24, 28 pin thing > everybody made these ROMS, we did not have otp and the cheap no window > package untill - 87 I think. reading it out is the mystery and the fun > inside Well, it's this comment from Andrew: > The date code in BIOS indicates about 1994 vintage or so... that makes me think it's probably flash/EEPROM. By 1994, almost nobody was putting BIOS code in ROMs for PeeCees. Maybe you know of someone, but I'm drawing a blank. And it might be an OTP also. Regardless, given the capacity, if it's a user-programmable ROM of any sort, there's bound to be manufacturer's information. Now, had Andrew said "1984", then I'd say you had a point; but even then, the size (512Kbit) would have been very unusual. Hey Andrew, if you can read the BIOS out, get the Award version number information too--the host system can often be identified from it, as there's a vendor ID in it. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

4
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End of restoration of the early French computer SEREL ODP-505 (germanium CPU)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> From: "pichotjm" <pichotjm at free.fr> > > ECN: Engineering change notice. Indicates revision of PCB. Thanks, I did not realise you had already translated it to English. > > The ODP-505 is a pure binary machine, not designed for arithmetics, > statistical purposes or BCD computations.It is a real time (!!!) > computer. > Get some datas (voltages, frequencies, switch states, motor speed, > temperature...) compare to thresholds or values, and speed up / > slow down > motor, or move a cadmium bar (?) in a nuclear reactor... I see. The Elliott machines were the same (but not the ICT1301), keeping the gun of a tank level and aimed in the right direction, accepting data from gyros and inertial sensors and tracking the position and orientation of an aircraft or ship, cross checking with compasses and other navigational systems, analysing sonar data and tracking enemy submarines etc. By the time of the 920ATC we even used a special real time programming language called Coral66, based on Algol60 syntax but with cut down semantics to give highly efficient run times. Before that everything was done in assembler (called S.I.R.) or machine code. >> | The architecture of your machine reminds me of the first machine I >> | was allowed to operate. It was an 18 bit binary machine, it had >> 8k of >> | memory built in, expandable with external modules and was made >> by the >> | Airborne Computing Division (ACD) of Elliotts, it was an Elliott >> 920B >> | and was a compact, flyable version of the commercial Elliott 903. >> | There had been an earlier model 920A which I think would have been >> | Germanium and was roughly the size and shape of a carpenters work >> | bench. This may have been contemporary with your earlier machine I >> | think. Unfortunately I never saw one in the flesh, but there was a >> | bench in the computer room which I found out later, was the empty >> | chassis of a 920A. Behind the bench was a large panel full of >> | electrical 'chocolate strip' connectors where the analogue and >> | digital input and output signals of the 920A could be connected up. >> | Apparently some of the analogue outputs had been connected up to an >> | oscilloscope to provide a visual display unit, though it used a >> fair >> | bit of processor time to keep it refreshed, even with the long >> | persistence phosphor of an oscilloscope. The panel had been covered >> | with board with pegs to hold mylar paper tapes and until the day it >> | was scrapped I had not seen what was behind it. > Very interesting!There are some video connector in the earlier > machine and > the Serel companywas specialized in high tech video solutions. Possible application for computers in video back then were superimposing images and standards conversion and just possibly titling and graphics. > I have read > somewhere in docs, thatthis computer have a screen output... If it has two or preferably three digital to analogue converters then a vector display is fairly easy, but maybe it was more complex than that, and you only need one digital to analogue converter for a raster display, provided you have enough CPU power to both drive the display in real time and do any processing required as well. I should explain what I said about two or three A/D converter, you have one to drive the X plate and one for the Y, ideally one for the brightness (Z), but with a fast enough converter, you can deflect the beam so fast so it will not mark the screen significantly and so no need to turn the beam off before moving to the next item to be displayed. > I have found, > last week a small notice describing microprogramming on > ODP-505.http://pichotjm.free.fr/Serel/ODP505/MicroProgrammation/ > MicroProgrammation.html(doc > found in photomultiplier doc!)I have found commercial document > describing > displays and analog memories...I don't know the date... (1970?) I > have to > study these documents... I had a look but my understanding of French is terrible, and technical details in French are even more difficult. >> I have a >> earlier machine from the same company SEREL, named OA-1001. Built in >> 1959/1960.I need to restore it. It lays on the floor (horizontal >> position)... The blue one >> here:http://pichotjm.free.fr/Serel/Photos/Photos.htmlI will start >> restoring >> next month (with the Sun!) > > | What is involved in the restoration? Do you intend to make it work, > | this would be very hard without the schematics. > As you know, i am alone, > here. I want to make an esthetic restoration:Photos and notes, > dismantle, > photos and notes, wash, dry, fix the rust, protect with Rustol, > photos an > reassemble. I hope to be capable to do that... may be one year, may be > two... As I understand it, that is what the big museums call preservation. There has been a lot of discussion of the relative merits of preservation and restoration. Restoration is what they call it when we return a computer to running condition, preferably so it can be demonstrated. There is some truth that restoring a computer always destroys some of the original and that preservation is, to the purist, a better thing to do. As I have two 1301s, I have the luxury of being able to restore one and preserve the other, but restoration is a lot more enjoyable to me. The other thing of course is simulation. This can be done at various levels, simple simulation of the instruction set, more complex simulation at gate level and in theory the ultimate would be to have a 3D model of the computer you could walk around and inspect the inside of, and attach a virtual oscilloscope to and watch the analogue signal levels and be able to do hardware patches and have simulated hardware faults and diagnose and repair them whilst the lights and switches all worked like the real thing and the sounds and 3D models of the peripherals would also be like the real thing. Maybe I'd leave out the sound of a card deck being mangled and thrown into the air by the card reader though. > > May be some reverse engineering to get 2 or 3 schematics. (need one > week for > a board! I have 2 boards in process...)JM Pichot Good, are you able to identify the function of each type of board (such as 'And' gate, Flip-Flop etc) If not I could perhaps compare with my 1301 schematics and see if they have any similarities. How difficult is it to identify the power supply connections? Are you planning on doing schematics for the board interconnections? I imagine this would be very difficult, so probably best not to try.

18 years, 5 months

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End of restoration of the early French computer SEREL ODP-505 (germanium CPU)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> > 'Ordinosaure' is a beautiful new word composed with > 'Ordinateur' (computer) > and Dinosaure. > We could translate it by 'computosaure'. I don't think we need the final 'e', alternatively how about dinoputer or jurassiputer? > It has about the same definition as in this group: older than 10 > years. (I > would prefer more than 20 or 30 years, to minimise the use of the > word...) > In 56000 messages, you will find a lot without interest! Well, to be fair, the same thing applies to cctalk. We all have our own interests and specialities within the broad range of machines and years of the 'computer age' and we have little interest in other models and periods.

18 years, 5 months

2
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Microsoft BASIC for the HHC: error in images and possibly in EPROMs

by eric＠brouhaha.com

A few years back Roger Merchberger was kind enough to make available copies of the Microsoft BASIC "capsule" for the Matsushita/Panasonic/Quasar HHC. I haven't checked any of his actual MCM68764 EPROMs, but I found an error in the binary image he provided. The last byte of the EPROM, at offset 0x1fff, is 0xff, but should be 0xc8, an INY instruction. The HHC inverts address line A12 to the ROMs, so the two halves of the EPROM are logically swapped. The EPROM resides in the HHC address map at 0x4000..0x5fff, so the incorrect byte is at address 0x4fff. If you look at the source code for Microsoft 6502 BASIC (which few people have), this byte is the first of three INY instructions generated by a REPEAT directive shortly after the label STOMLT: STOMLT: STX CURTOL LDA COUNT REPEAT 3,<INY> STADY LOWTR ;SAVE NUMBER OF DIMENSIONS. LOPPTA: LDXI 11 ;DEFAULT SIZE. This is the (corrected) disassembled code: 4ffb 86 f1 stomlt: STX curtol 4ffd a5 44 LDA count 4fff c8 INY 5000 c8 INY 5001 c8 INY 5002 91 ee STA (lowtr),Y This is part of the array indexing code. The incorrect byte 0xff is an invalid opcode, so it probably will result in array indexing being done wrong, and could cause memory corruption. I found this error only because I was able to compare a disassembly of the image to the Microsoft source code. It's remotely possible that there could be other errors in the image. I now have an original Microsoft BASIC ROM for the HHC, so I'll try to verify the image against it. The ROM image ends with some credits (presumably for the HHC port): 001ff0 4e 45 49 4c 20 4b 20 26 20 48 45 4e 52 59 20 4c >NEIL K & HENRY L< "Neil K" is almost certainly Neil Konzen. Does anyone know who "Henry L" is? Eric

18 years, 5 months

2
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Macintosh IIfx: Seeking to acquire

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I'm seeking to acquire a functional Mac IIfx for a project. Does anyone have one they'd like to sell? If so, please contact me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 5 months

1
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Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:40:14 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> I don't write all that...! >On Mar 23, 2008, at 7:49 AM, Allison wrote: >>> Following the wonderful advice so for, My shiny PDP 11/04 has now been >>> upgraded to a 11/34, and I have a temporary terminator pack for my >>> RL01 >>> disk drive. >>> >>> I suspect that I have a system that is capable of booting. - Wo Hoo. >>> (read - the disks spin, and the fault light stays off.....) >>> >>> My final problem (Dont hold me to that though) is that I while I have >>> a >>> number of disk packs, I don't believe that I have anything to boot!! >>> The packs are not really usefully labeled. >>> >>> Having trawled the list, I can find many many messages about archiving >>> data off RL disk packs, and onto archival systems (such as emulators, >>> etc) - bit I cant find anything about how to take a disk image, and >>> put >>> it onto an real RL01 attached to real PDP11 where there is no other >>> media... I suspect that I have to load in a serial receiver program, >>> and dump an image - but the details are so far, sparse.... >>> >>> If somebody could provide some pointers - that would be awesome..... >>> In >>> an ideal world, I would be able to get RSTS onto this system (I have >>> dual RL01's - so that may not work) - Alternately, just being able to >>> boot RT11 to load a Forth interpreter would also work. [Yes, this is >>> where I admit to being a Forth person - I hope people will still want >>> to >>> talk to me having admitted that] >> I did write this. >> Two ways I know of and they are essentailly the same. Create a pack >> on a >> working system or bring up a pack from a working sytems. Other options >> are a floppy based bring up (RT11 fits on floppy) or maybe loading core >> via serial line with a bottable image. Last option is emulateted Tu58 >> where the PC acts as a TU58 with RT11 and you use a serial line to boot >> and run fromt hat to create a RL pack. IN any case I don't think >> anyone >> has come up with a way to write a RL from a PC directly. Generally >> every >> one has at least one other media (RX01/2 or RX50 OR TK50, TUxx) for >> portability. >> >> It's look at the option where someone creates a pack for you or loans >> a pack or the emulated TU58 option. This works! > Using vtserver is a good option here. Though I'm currently having >trouble with it with an 11/23 I'm trying to load with RSTS/E, I've had >good luck with it in the past with RSTS/E and 2.11BSD on an 11/83. I >think my 11/23's console SLU is somehow flakey and screwing with data >transfer. Slow the data rate. Stay under 4800 as you may be getting buffer overflows. Allison > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire >Port Charlotte, FL

18 years, 5 months

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Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator > From: Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:59:15 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Dave McGuire wrote: >> On Mar 23, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Allison wrote: >>>> Using vtserver is a good option here. Though I'm currently having >>>> trouble with it with an 11/23 I'm trying to load with RSTS/E, I've had >>>> good luck with it in the past with RSTS/E and 2.11BSD on an 11/83. I >>>> think my 11/23's console SLU is somehow flakey and screwing with data >>>> transfer. I didn't write ^^^^. I wrote vvvv. >>> Slow the data rate. Stay under 4800 as you may be getting buffer >>> overflows. Someone else wrote vvvv. >> I'll see about trying that tomorrow. I don't really mind if it takes >> days to copy (I'm moving a 300+MB image) as long as it's error-free. > > That won't fly. VTserver v2.x has a 32MB file-size limit. :( Use Vtserver to install an OS and use that to do the heavy lifting... HOWEVER: RT11 has a 32mb limit (per file device) as well so use an OS that can handle that size files. Maybe UnixV6 is a possible choice. Allison > > Doc

18 years, 5 months

1
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GatorBox software install question

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

A long time ago, I had a couple of GatorBoxes, and I remember that you could run the code memory test to wipe all the settings -- and hence recover from a locked box or lost password. What I can't remember is the procedure to then re-install the Gatorshare software. I seem to recall it needs a Mac. Can anyone remind me? Someone I know has ended up with this problem. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

18 years, 5 months

2
1
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mystery chip 608C62

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:23:52 +0000 > From: Julian > I found it on www.datasheets.org.uk - it's listed as an equivalent to a > 6264 static ram, which sounds plausible... Not if it already contains a copy of a BIOS. If you take a closer look, you'll see that the referencing page is merely a search list, not a pointer to equivalents. Had me fooled too. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

3
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Emailing: mystery chip 608C62.htm

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:23:52 +0000 > From: Julian > I found it on www.datasheets.org.uk - it's listed as an equivalent to a > 6264 static ram, which sounds plausible... Not if it already contains a copy of a BIOS. If you take a closer look, you'll see that the referencing page is merely a search list, not a pointer to equivalents. Had me fooled too. Cheers, Chuck -----REPLY----- Hi Chuck! Thanks for the reply. Well, no luck yet but I will try your idea of seeing if my EPROM programmer can identify it. The date code in BIOS indicates about 1994 vintage or so. I am not sure how to read the chips date code though. I will fire up the EPROM programmer and see if it can identify the chip. Maybe we'll get lucky... Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 5 months

1
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Emailing: mystery chip 608C62.htm

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

On Sunday 23 March 2008 18:06, Andrew Lynch wrote: > Hi, > > I found a mystery chip in a pile of stuff. Apparently, it was an AWARD > BIOS in a former life. I can read it in my EPROM programmer and it is read > compatible with a 27C512 (64Kx8 EPROM). The contents are consistent with > an AWARD BIOS for a PC of some sort. > > However, the chip itself is rather unusual. There is no EPROM quartz > window, the manufacturer symbol is a triangle, and the number is unlike > anything I have seen before. Worse yet, I get no helpful hints on GOOGLE > when I try. > > The chip number is 608C62. I am guessing it is either a One Time PROM or a > mask ROM. Has anyone heard of this or know what family it is from? > I found it on www.datasheets.org.uk - it's listed as an equivalent to a 6264 static ram, which sounds plausible... Julian > I am hoping it was a FLASH ROM or EEPROM but I can't seem to find anything > on this chip. Any hints or help much appreciated! > > Andrew Lynch > -----REPLY----- Hi Julian, Thanks for looking and the reply. That is the first place I went after Google looking for a datasheet. The only thing they said though was that I was not the only person who has searched for the device in the past. The chip is some sort of ROM because I can read the contents with my EPROM programmer in 27C512 mode. No luck on what it is though... At least it is not unique but it is starting to look a lot like a Mask ROM to me. Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 5 months

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mystery chip 608C62

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

On Sunday 23 March 2008 18:06, Andrew Lynch wrote: > Hi, > > I found a mystery chip in a pile of stuff. Apparently, it was an AWARD > BIOS in a former life. I can read it in my EPROM programmer and it is read > compatible with a 27C512 (64Kx8 EPROM). The contents are consistent with > an AWARD BIOS for a PC of some sort. > > However, the chip itself is rather unusual. There is no EPROM quartz > window, the manufacturer symbol is a triangle, and the number is unlike > anything I have seen before. Worse yet, I get no helpful hints on GOOGLE > when I try. Maybe this'll help: http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/logos/semiconductorlogos.html ? A triangle sounds like Matsushita, maybe. > The chip number is 608C62. I am guessing it is either a One Time PROM or a > mask ROM. Has anyone heard of this or know what family it is from? I've not heard of that one before. > I am hoping it was a FLASH ROM or EEPROM but I can't seem to find anything > on this chip. Any hints or help much appreciated! > > Andrew Lynch -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin -----REPLY----- Hi Roy, Thanks for the reply. I reviewed your page of chip logos and the Hundai/Hynix triangle seems the closest but even then not exact. The logo is a perfect equilateral triangle outline. Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 5 months

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advent sources?

by tiggerlasv＠aim.com

I'd love to find an Advent fortran source that compiles on the PDP-11 under RSTS/E. I've run across about 20 different versions in various places on-line, but haven't been able to get any of them to compile successfully under Fortran-IV or Fortran-77. . . Zane -- When you say "DND", do you mean DND, as in Lamorte/Shvenk's Lair style DND, or do you mean DUNGEO, as in "You are standing in an open field west of a small white house." ? T

18 years, 5 months

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NRI 832 restoration.

by davis＠saw.net

I've started restoring a National Radio Institute (remember the 60's pop-sci ads?) model 832 computer.The system was functional when I received it about 15 years ago, but it's showing it's age now.This system is very fragile, All the signal connection use 22-24? gauge kynar, tack soldered to the edges of machine screw sockets, the sockets being used to test and experiment with the dozen+ circuit boards constructed during the training program. I've looked on the net and can find close to nothing on this machine. Does anyone have schematics?or do I need to tear this thing down and draw up a decent print? Thanks. Jim.

18 years, 5 months

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cassette interface of Panasonic HHC

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Can anyone provide a summary of how to use the cassette interface on a Panasonic HHC (or Quasar, etc.)? I don't have the relevant manuals. I expect that there must be some way to transfer files between memory (either internal RAM or external RAM modules) and the cassette, but it's not obvious how to do it, and the I/O menu doesn't list the cassette interface. Thanks, Eric

18 years, 5 months

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End of restoration of the early French computer SEREL ODP-505 (germanium CPU)

by pichotjm＠free.fr

Hi,[back to home]> It is difficult for me to give a precise date. I don't have any > manufacturing notes/schematics about this machine. Published > computer lists > indicate 1965. But they don't know my work. It seems that the > machine began > a military career, before a commercial one. (My machine has a military > color, and a customs seal)And I think that the 1965 date is only for > commercial use (not reserved to military).Date codes on PCBs range > from 1962 > to 1964. It's why I think 1964. But the machine was used for > manufacturing > problems debugging / ECN. 1964 may be the date of the last ECN... > So the > date is between 1962 and 1965. | Thank. I presume ECN means PCB = Printed Circuit Board. ECN: Engineering change notice. Indicates revision of PCB. > |It is tiny compared with my Germanium machine > (ICT 1301) which weighs > |five tons. It has the same clock speed but is quite a bit slower, so > |I guess it is earlier than mine. But maybe the emphasis of the design > |was miniaturisation and the designers traded speed for size. > | | I should have made it clear that it is the 1301 which is the faster | of the two. For example a 48 bit decimal (i.e. 12 digits) add to / | subtract from a register takes 21 microseconds. The ODP-505 is a pure binary machine, not designed for arithmetics, statistical purposes or BCD computations.It is a real time (!!!) computer. Get some datas (voltages, frequencies, switch states, motor speed, temperature...) compare to thresholds or values, and speed up / slow down motor, or move a cadmium bar (?) in a nuclear reactor...> What is the manufacturing date of your ICT 1301? | Actually I have two. Serial number 6 was the first one to be sold and | was installed in 1962 and it is this one which is assembled and | works, though not all the peripherals are functional. Serial number | 75 I would guess was made in 1963. I have a few parts of serial | number 155, which I would think would be from 1965 when the machines | were largely replaced by the ICT 1900 series. Designing of the | machines was started in the late 1950s, and many of the engineering | drawings have initial revisions from that period. | The architecture of your machine reminds me of the first machine I | was allowed to operate. It was an 18 bit binary machine, it had 8k of | memory built in, expandable with external modules and was made by the | Airborne Computing Division (ACD) of Elliotts, it was an Elliott 920B | and was a compact, flyable version of the commercial Elliott 903. | There had been an earlier model 920A which I think would have been | Germanium and was roughly the size and shape of a carpenters work | bench. This may have been contemporary with your earlier machine I | think. Unfortunately I never saw one in the flesh, but there was a | bench in the computer room which I found out later, was the empty | chassis of a 920A. Behind the bench was a large panel full of | electrical 'chocolate strip' connectors where the analogue and | digital input and output signals of the 920A could be connected up. | Apparently some of the analogue outputs had been connected up to an | oscilloscope to provide a visual display unit, though it used a fair | bit of processor time to keep it refreshed, even with the long | persistence phosphor of an oscilloscope. The panel had been covered | with board with pegs to hold mylar paper tapes and until the day it | was scrapped I had not seen what was behind it. Very interesting!There are some video connector in the earlier machine and the Serel companywas specialized in high tech video solutions. I have read somewhere in docs, thatthis computer have a screen output...I have found, last week a small notice describing microprogramming on ODP-505.http://pichotjm.free.fr/Serel/ODP505/MicroProgrammation/MicroProgrammation.html(doc found in photomultiplier doc!)I have found commercial document describing displays and analog memories...I don't know the date... (1970?) I have to study these documents... > I have a > earlier machine from the same company SEREL, named OA-1001. Built in > 1959/1960.I need to restore it. It lays on the floor (horizontal > position)... The blue one > here:http://pichotjm.free.fr/Serel/Photos/Photos.htmlI will start > restoring > next month (with the Sun!) | What is involved in the restoration? Do you intend to make it work, | this would be very hard without the schematics.As you know, i am alone, here. I want to make an esthetic restoration:Photos and notes, dismantle, photos and notes, wash, dry, fix the rust, protect with Rustol, photos an reassemble. I hope to be capable to do that... may be one year, may be two... May be some reverse engineering to get 2 or 3 schematics. (need one week for a board! I have 2 boards in process...)JM Pichot

18 years, 5 months

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End of restoration of the early French computer SEREL ODP-505 (germanium CPU)

by pichotjm＠free.fr

|pichotjm wrote: | |> Hi, Be carefull! fr.comp.ordinosaures is in french. | |And this is somehow dangerous for my health :-) | |> The best way for you, |> would be to subscribe to the news server Astraweb.com. You will have |> to pay | |Actually an unrelated google search showed up "ordinosaure" on |the French wikipedia and the very next link was google groups |(or dejanews as I still like to think of it). | |56000 messages ... I may be some time ... | |Antonio [back to home] Hi, 'Ordinosaure' is a beautiful new word composed with 'Ordinateur' (computer) and Dinosaure. We could translate it by 'computosaure'. It has about the same definition as in this group: older than 10 years. (I would prefer more than 20 or 30 years, to minimise the use of the word...) In 56000 messages, you will find a lot without interest! If you need some french url, i can make a copy of my book-mark. JMP

18 years, 5 months

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Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator

by tiggerlasv＠aim.com

> With dual RL01's you're going to be fairly limited on space, > I don't know how old of a version of RSTS/E you'd need > to go with in order to get it to fit. RT-11 is a good choice > for a system with that limited of disk space. RSTS/E V7.0-07 will happily reside on a single RL01 pack. Depending on the program packages you install, you could wind up with as much as 3MB of space free. Add another RL01 as a public pack, and you're "living large". ;-) His real limitation will be the amount of memory on the 11/34. If he's got 256K, then he'd be able to run between 2 - 4 maximum size jobs without swapping, depending on the size he sets for SWAPMAX. T

18 years, 5 months

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608C62

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:06:27 -0400 > From: "Andrew Lynch" > Subject: mystery chip > I found a mystery chip in a pile of stuff. Apparently, it was an AWARD > BIOS in a former life. I can read it in my EPROM programmer and it is > read compatible with a 27C512 (64Kx8 EPROM). The contents are consistent > with an AWARD BIOS for a PC of some sort. Well, if it's an EPROM (OTP or flash), it should have a "silicon signature"/"intelligent identifier" readable by your EPROM programmer. Does your programmer have an auto-identify capability? Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

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partnumber(s) of a TC-11

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

Hello, Can abyone help me with the partnumber or partnumbers of a TC11 controller (which is for the TU-56 tapedrives). Thanks, Ed

18 years, 5 months

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Computer in 1900

by bnansel＠bigpond.net.au

Thu Feb 14 Gavin Melville wrote: > ... > As the OP who started this discussion I appreciate all the comments. > The original spec was not to invent new components, but to use things > you could actually get in 1900. Just because I know how to make > an IC > now doesn't mean I could have made one in 1900. While I could have > obtained Silicon, it's unlikely it would have been usable purity, and > the imaging, etching and depositation would be simply impossible. > > The "was it available" we have looked hardest at is the transistor, > and > could have we made a point contact transistor then, even a FET (made > before the transistor but didn't recognise it). While we might be > able > to do this, we're trying to limit our search to things we could get, > rather than make, or materials we could get rather than make ie iron > cores, as opposed to point contact transistors. ( We are, however > keeping an eye on the 256 2n2222 project). > ... As an option for I/O, you might consider a Nipkow (pronounced 'Nip- kov') disk as a mechanical video display unit. Nipkow disks were well known in 1900, and several television designs had been proposed by then (and some of them even had much, much more than a snowball's chance of working). Another thing you might consider is to use a nickel coating on the disk; with suitable read & write heads you could build a sort of bit- mapped video memory. Poulsen had demonstrated magnetic recording in 1898, and it was used in some early Marconi equipment as a detector. A sensitive mirror galvanometer connected to the read head would modulate your light source behind the scanning disk. You need to write the appropriate bit images to the tracks, but assuming the disk spins at about 1500 RPM, you only need modulate at audio frequencies to produce usable video; you could use a carbon amplifier (as used by the phone company at that time) to drive each write head. Another thing magnetic recording might do for you is as a source of higher frequencies: prerecord at slow disk RPM, read at much higher RPM. -Bobby

18 years, 5 months

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mystery chip 608C62

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi, I found a mystery chip in a pile of stuff. Apparently, it was an AWARD BIOS in a former life. I can read it in my EPROM programmer and it is read compatible with a 27C512 (64Kx8 EPROM). The contents are consistent with an AWARD BIOS for a PC of some sort. However, the chip itself is rather unusual. There is no EPROM quartz window, the manufacturer symbol is a triangle, and the number is unlike anything I have seen before. Worse yet, I get no helpful hints on GOOGLE when I try. The chip number is 608C62. I am guessing it is either a One Time PROM or a mask ROM. Has anyone heard of this or know what family it is from? I am hoping it was a FLASH ROM or EEPROM but I can't seem to find anything on this chip. Any hints or help much appreciated! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 5 months

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FTGH: Stuff!

by josefcub＠gmail.com

All, Long story short, I have a bunch of stuff that I can't currently properly take care of. I'd like it to go to homes that can use it, or at least protect it better. I live in semi-rural Texas (Bastrop, TX about 50mi east of Austin). Things listed here are technically "classic", even if there's only one minicomputer involved. I also have myriad miscellaneous PC junk that can happily go too. I'd love to have traded this stuff for repairing/refurbing my workshop, but that's not likely going to happen. This stuff is pickup only, due to size, weight, and time constraints on my part. Take one thing, or take it all. Just take it and preserve it, please. (I will part out the DG though, if you take the innards and I keep the non-OEM racks) So here's the list for all y'all: * Twin rack HEAVY Data General MV-7800/U minicomputer, with: Overall Condition: Slight external rust, racks in good shape, boards clean and intact. Last powered up in 1993. Been in uncontrolled storage since. Card List in Nova 4 CPU enclosure: 16 15 40 ISC 14 27 BMX-1 DISK 13 22 WP TAPE 12 11 10 50 SLIM-16 (16-terminal communications card) 09 65 SLIM-16 08 17 DMA-LPT 07 06 05 04 03 02 ( DAUGHTER BOARD 8MB ) 01 MV-7800 CPU 2MB Tape Drive: Cipher Data Systems MOD NO: 0910640-98-0750U PART NO: 154000-132 OPTION: B DENSITY: 1600/800 bpi HDDs (x2): Century Data Systems Model: M315-1 Serial: 12718 / 11096 Part #: 26723-248 REV: AW * Apple Macintosh SEs (x2) 2.5MB and 4/20MB models, keyboards and mice if I can find 'em. * Apple II Plus: 48k+Language card, works. * Apple IIe: works * Apple IIc Plus: Works * Apple Monitor IIc: Works * Apple IIgs (x5 or so): Various memory configurations, all worked when put up. 2 Woz, one Rom 00. * A small army of Apple II 8-bit expansion cards, Disk II drives, and other parts. * TI-99/4A: A dozen carts, speech module, CPU in original box. Works. * Apple Monitor IIgs x2: Worked last I used them. * DEC DECStation 5000/120 with 5000/260 front cover. Works. 32MB/1GB. * TRS-80 Model 16 with twin 8" drives, keyboard, printer. Untested. * More as I find it. With this stuff gone to better homes, I can spend the money and time making a real workshop out of the mess, so I can collect, repair, and use the stuff I love once again. Josef PS: You'll have to seriously barter for my spare Newtons, Model 100s, Epson PX-8s, and VAXstation 3100 M38. Those are at least kept in the house. ;-) -- "I laugh because I dare not cry. This is a crazy world and the only way to enjoy it is to treat it as a joke." -- Hilda "Sharpie" Burroughs, "The Number of the Beast" by Robert A. Heinlein

18 years, 5 months

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Fwd: [Electronics_101] Parts

by rtellason＠verizon.net

This guy has a bunch of 74xx parts, including some numbers that I just sent the last of what I had to a listmember here. :-) Some other bits too, some of you guys might find useful. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [Electronics_101] Parts Date: Sunday 23 March 2008 04:48 From: "Ben" <izzo47 at yahoo.com> To: Electronics_101 at yahoogroups.com Where is a good place to post for parts that I am getting rid of?? I made a website => http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeszd6i/bensplace/ Thanks, Ben http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Electronics_101/ ------------------------------------------------------- -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

18 years, 5 months

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About Atari UNIX

by plamen＠r00tcrew.eu.com

Hello, I'm writing you because I saw a message in classiccmp.org about Atari UNIX. >> "For those who own Atari TT030 workstations, I have finally gotten a >> hard >> disk with Atari's version of Unix System V on it running along with a >> diskette with setboot.prg utility that sets the nvram in the TT030's to >> recognize and boot from the Unix Hard Disk. >> >> If anyone is interested, I can make ghost images of the 300MB SCSI >> hard disk >> for you. One word of caution, according the Atari engineer who >> wrote Atari >> Unix, it does not work on all TT030's. Some of the units had bugs and >> issues, most came back into Atari's service center where the -33 68030's >> were replaced with slower 16mhz CPU's, so while I will guarantee that >> the >> image works, I cannot guarantee if your TT will have a problem or >> not. So >> far I've tried it out with 3 TT's and they all work. Also Atari >> Unix will >> recognize Riebl VME ethernet cards and set them as /dev/en0 so you >> can hook >> the TT up to the internet directly. I personally am going to see if >> I can >> get Apache to work on the TT as it would be great to run a website for >> Atari's on an actual Atari computer. >> >> If you want a copy, I need a 300mb SCSI HD to Ghost the image to and >> you pay >> shipping to and from me. >> >> >> Curt The sender email was no longer available so I'm writing in the mail-list - hope it is ok. I didn't know the Atari UNIX release recognize any ethernet device, but since Riebl will work I'm going to buy a TT and the network adapter. Can someone who got the image upload it and give me a information about restoring it on a hard drive( is it obligatory at any cost to be a 300MB hdd )? Regards, Plamen

18 years, 5 months

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PDP-8/e

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi Thanks for the information. However driving the scope is not the problem. I started out as a development engineer on VDU's in the early 1970's. Hence setting up the scope is not an isssue. This paticular problem is only related to the DEP and EXAM funtions. The 8e has a cycle split into parts. DEP or EXAM occur in one cycle. There's a Flipflop (RUN) on the 8330 board that is set in a time period at the beginning of the cycle by the debounced DEP key. The memory address would have been set up manually or auto incremented by a previous DEP. The switch register contents are then transferred to the data bus and the memory signalled to write into the preset address. A signal called stop the clears the RUN flipflop at the end of the cycle. So within one cycle the contents of the switch register (data) should be witten into memory when the DEP key is raised. Only it isn't Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Roganti Sent: 23 March 2008 18:55 To: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: PDP-8/e Rod, I use both Tek scopes here, a 465 and a TDS410A. Most Tek scopes have the facility to perform a single sweep trigger to detect pulses such as that. However old your Tek scope is, there's supposed to be a button to select between 'Auto' and 'Single Swp' triggering. Also, there is a trigger source selector, this can be set for Chan.1, since your most likely to have one scope probe hooked up already. Then in the same area of the trigger panel there is an arming indicator light. This will let you know the scope is ready to detect a pulse after you set the trigger level--adjusting this to the middle should be good enough. You can also set the Horz sweep to somewhere between 100nsec and 500nsec to get a visual with the brightness turned up alittle more since it will be quick. If the pulse is detected the arming indicator will clear and the trigger indicator will blink just once. You'll have to arm the trigger again by selecting the "single sweep' button to check each signal. hope that helps, =Dan [ Pittsburgh --- http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/ ] Rod Smallwood wrote: > Hi > I recently aquired a complete PDP-8/e. As it had not run for a > while I took the usual precautions of reforming the electrolytics in > the PSU as well as dismantling the whole system and cleaning everything. > I was rewarded with a working system. I started to run some simple > toggle in programs and got to the stage of driving a VT 320 with a > display of whole the character set at 110baud. > > I was about to toggle in the next test which would have been a > keyboard echo routine when I discovered I could no longer load > anything into memory. > Load address works but setting the data to load into memory in the > switch register and raising DEP no longer writes the data to memory. > . > RUN works so it looks like the timing plus the RUN/STOP flipflop are > running ok. > However one shot operations like DEP and EXAM are difficult to > diagnose as is hard to see a one off 500nS pulse. > I don't think its the memory itself ( 4 x 4K of core) as I have tried > each 4K bank on its own with the same result. > I do have the CPU manual and a decent Tektronix scope. > Has anybody any suggestions? > > Rod Smallwood > > > > > >

18 years, 5 months

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Anyone interested in Modcomp II gear?

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

Last summer, I collected a large amount of surplus Modcomp II gear as part of a truckload computer rescue. I am looking to find homes for some of the excess. I've placed one complete system, but it looks like I have at least one more CPU. The Modcomp II is an early 70's vintage TTL machine with an instruction set that somewhat reminiscent of the IBM 360. It has a large register file, and both register-register and register-memory instructions. The CPU is packaged in a full-sized 19-inch cabinet, rather than a smaller enclosed chassis. These machines were built for real-time control in critical applications, and were a favorite of NASA. They were very solidly built. Programming and maintenance manuals, with schematics, are available. I would be interested in finding out how much interest there is in this gear. It is located in San Jose, California. --Bill

18 years, 5 months

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Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator

by hoelscher-kirchbrak＠freenet.de

> My final problem (Dont hold me to that though) is that I while I have a > number of disk packs, I don't believe that I have anything to boot!! > The packs are not really usefully labeled. > Having trawled the list, I can find many many messages about archiving > data off RL disk packs, and onto archival systems (such as emulators, > etc) - bit I cant find anything about how to take a disk image, and put > it onto an real RL01 attached to real PDP11 where there is no other > media... I suspect that I have to load in a serial receiver program, > and dump an image - but the details are so far, sparse.... Hi Doug, I usually transfer software to my RL packs this way: 1. I prepare a disk image with simh on my PC 2. I transfer the image file with ftp onto my PDP-11/83 (RD54 system disk) running ULTRIX-11 V3.1 (with TCP/IP!) 3. The said PDP-11/83 has got an RL controller & drive and I use both to put the image onto a RL disk pack with the help of 'dd'. This method has proven its reliability several times with different PDP-11 OSses as well as with XXDP. Unfortunately you might be missing a PDP-11 capable of running ULTRIX-11 ... Regards Ulli P.S. A MicroVAX (e.g. MV II) with an RL Controller should do as well. Copying disk images to real disks with VMS is no problem at all. I've done it very often with RD3x and RD5x disks.

18 years, 5 months

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Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator

by doug＠stillhq.com

Hi List, Following the wonderful advice so for, My shiny PDP 11/04 has now been upgraded to a 11/34, and I have a temporary terminator pack for my RL01 disk drive. I suspect that I have a system that is capable of booting. - Wo Hoo. (read - the disks spin, and the fault light stays off.....) My final problem (Dont hold me to that though) is that I while I have a number of disk packs, I don't believe that I have anything to boot!! The packs are not really usefully labeled. Having trawled the list, I can find many many messages about archiving data off RL disk packs, and onto archival systems (such as emulators, etc) - bit I cant find anything about how to take a disk image, and put it onto an real RL01 attached to real PDP11 where there is no other media... I suspect that I have to load in a serial receiver program, and dump an image - but the details are so far, sparse.... If somebody could provide some pointers - that would be awesome..... In an ideal world, I would be able to get RSTS onto this system (I have dual RL01's - so that may not work) - Alternately, just being able to boot RT11 to load a Forth interpreter would also work. [Yes, this is where I admit to being a Forth person - I hope people will still want to talk to me having admitted that] Thanks Doug

18 years, 5 months

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PDP-8/e

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi I recently aquired a complete PDP-8/e. As it had not run for a while I took the usual precautions of reforming the electrolytics in the PSU as well as dismantling the whole system and cleaning everything. I was rewarded with a working system. I started to run some simple toggle in programs and got to the stage of driving a VT 320 with a display of whole the character set at 110baud. I was about to toggle in the next test which would have been a keyboard echo routine when I discovered I could no longer load anything into memory. Load address works but setting the data to load into memory in the switch register and raising DEP no longer writes the data to memory. . RUN works so it looks like the timing plus the RUN/STOP flipflop are running ok. However one shot operations like DEP and EXAM are difficult to diagnose as is hard to see a one off 500nS pulse. I don't think its the memory itself ( 4 x 4K of core) as I have tried each 4K bank on its own with the same result. I do have the CPU manual and a decent Tektronix scope. Has anybody any suggestions? Rod Smallwood

18 years, 5 months

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Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Loading an OS onto a real PDP-11 - not an emulator > From: Doug Jackson <doug at stillhq.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:51:02 +1100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Hi List, > >Following the wonderful advice so for, My shiny PDP 11/04 has now been >upgraded to a 11/34, and I have a temporary terminator pack for my RL01 >disk drive. > >I suspect that I have a system that is capable of booting. - Wo Hoo. >(read - the disks spin, and the fault light stays off.....) > >My final problem (Dont hold me to that though) is that I while I have a >number of disk packs, I don't believe that I have anything to boot!! >The packs are not really usefully labeled. > >Having trawled the list, I can find many many messages about archiving >data off RL disk packs, and onto archival systems (such as emulators, >etc) - bit I cant find anything about how to take a disk image, and put >it onto an real RL01 attached to real PDP11 where there is no other >media... I suspect that I have to load in a serial receiver program, >and dump an image - but the details are so far, sparse.... > >If somebody could provide some pointers - that would be awesome..... In >an ideal world, I would be able to get RSTS onto this system (I have >dual RL01's - so that may not work) - Alternately, just being able to >boot RT11 to load a Forth interpreter would also work. [Yes, this is >where I admit to being a Forth person - I hope people will still want to >talk to me having admitted that] Two ways I know of and they are essentailly the same. Create a pack on a working system or bring up a pack from a working sytems. Other options are a floppy based bring up (RT11 fits on floppy) or maybe loading core via serial line with a bottable image. Last option is emulateted Tu58 where the PC acts as a TU58 with RT11 and you use a serial line to boot and run fromt hat to create a RL pack. IN any case I don't think anyone has come up with a way to write a RL from a PC directly. Generally every one has at least one other media (RX01/2 or RX50 OR TK50, TUxx) for portability. It's look at the option where someone creates a pack for you or loans a pack or the emulated TU58 option. Allison >Thanks > >Doug

18 years, 5 months

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RK05 rack slides?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I have the age-old problem of a bunch of RK05 drives with only the "drive" half of the rack slides, and no "rack" half. Does anyone here have a stash of RK05 rack slides? Oh, and the other thing I'm looking for is a half-height (3U, 5.25") black blank panel, of the type that's often used on the top half of the front of a 10.5" PDP-11/34 chassis. I don't have much cash to offer (still trying to recover from a stretch of unemployment earlier this year) but I have LOTS of DEC stuff to trade. Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

18 years, 5 months

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goodies from storage: HP9810A, PDP-11/05

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I made a trip to my (far away) storage locker today, and brought home a few things that I hope to bring back to life in the coming weeks. First is an HP9810A. I just powered it up...Several LEDs turn on immediately, but the display is blank and the keys are unresponsive. Does anyone (Tony?) have any troubleshooting hints? Are schematics for this machine floating around anywhere? The second is a PDP-11/05. It hasn't been powered up in about twenty years, and has an empty backplane. I'm pretty sure I have all the right boards, but I'll have to dig through quite a few crates to locate them. I may do that tomorrow or Friday. Friday is my birthday (39, *shudder*) and I always make it a point to do things that I love on my birthday, and hacking on a PDP-11 definitely qualifies, so I'll probably work on it then. The first thing that sticks out about the 11/05 is that the keylock switch has a key broken off in it. At least it's in the "power" position. Does anyone have a spare key for this machine? If so, can I talk you out if it? It's not one of the ubiquitous XX2247s of which I have quite a few; it's a standard "slot" key. Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

18 years, 5 months

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Matchpoint/DOB on 386/20?

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:13:27 -0500 > From: Jim Leonard > I used a Central Point Option Board on a 386sx-16 and a 386dx-40 so I'd > say you're safe. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) How about the Matchpoint? Anyone? Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

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Los Angeles: Commodore PET 8032's, PDP 11/73 for trade

by drew＠asideworldwide.com

Hi - I'm looking for a PET 8032 for a photo shoot in Los Angeles. Could I possibly rent one from you? Are they for sale? Thanks! Drew (310)876-0304

18 years, 5 months

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Matchpoint/DOB on 386/20?

by cclist＠sydex.com

Please respond privately if you don't think a 20-year old topic is appropriate for the list. I was wondering if anyone's tried to use a Microsolutions Match Point and/or a Central Point Deluxe option board on a 386/20. I'll be using an old Micronics system (no custom VLSI) if that's any help. I'd like to find out if this works before I get out my screwdriver. Thanks, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

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Semi-OT: recommend a fast, high-capacity sheet-fed scanner?

by listmailgoeshere＠gmail.com

Hi list, I'd like to pick your collective brains, if I may? I have quite a few books here which, though I'd like to keep the content, do take up a lot of space*. I'm looking at some kind of solution for scanning them, and so far "cutting the spines off and loading the pages into a sheet-fed scanner" seems likely to be fastest - I can't afford an automatic book scanner, and whilst there are units like the Mustek OpticBook range, it'd take forever to be there picking the book up, turning the page and replacing it for each scan. This is only semi-OT inasmuch as I know various people on the list need to scan classic-computer-related documentation from time to time, so this info may be useful to others. So - does anyone know of a make/model scanner which has a high (ideally 100 pages or more) sheet-feed capacity, is fast (ideally SCSI, maybe USB2, Firewire is third choice) and produces good results for this sort of thing? New or secondhand is fine. Thanks, Ed. * nothing of any historic or cultural significance - mainly just recipe books. I wouldn't destroy anything rare or important.

18 years, 5 months

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Semi-OT: recommend a fast, high-capacity sheet-fed scanner?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> So - does anyone know of a make/model scanner which has a high > (ideally 100 pages or more) sheet-feed capacity, is fast (ideally > SCSI, maybe USB2, Firewire is third choice) and produces good results > for this sort of thing? There are many. I'm currently using a Kodak 2500D, which can be found used for a few hundred dollars on eBay.

18 years, 5 months

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Switch settings: Facit 4070 tape punch

by drb＠msu.edu

Hi, Looking for switch setting info for the serial (multi interface?) board in a Facit 4070 tape punch. The stencilled on labels are a little cryptic, and there's no stencil for the big chrome toggle switch on the back. Thanks, De

18 years, 5 months

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VCF Midwest 4.0 on April 26-27 at Purdue University

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

VCF Midwest is happening on April 26-27 at Purdue University in Indiana. Patrick has told me he's going to literally break the legs of any people who are able to come but don't. I've seen Patrick do this and it was not pretty. Please don't piss off Patrick. Start making your plans to attend NOW. http://www.vintage.org/2008/midwest/ Both VCF-MW and VCF Europa are occurring on the same weekend. We are hoping to have some sort of simulcast between the two to the extent possible in overcoming technical challenges and time zone differences. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 5 months

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Fwd: [FG] [Fwd: viz, Arthur Clarke]

by rtellason＠verizon.net

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [FG] [Fwd: viz, Arthur Clarke] Date: Friday 21 March 2008 11:03 From: Gus Gere <gere at sasktel.net> To: "fidoguns at fidoguns.org" <fidoguns at fidoguns.org> Crosspost <http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1085.jpg> or via http://tinyurl.com/2hlgpu ------------------------------------------------------- -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

18 years, 5 months

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NGEN B26 - CTOS floppy?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I would commit an unnatural act to get a set of CTOS system disks. It appears Bear Striklin (typewritten.org) has B2x software, though I've not been able to contact him about it.

18 years, 5 months

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Aurthur C. Clarke has passed

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

Clarke was an early user of KayPro lugables. >From: Randy Dawson <rdawson16 at hotmail.com> >Subject: OT: Aurthur C. Clarke has passed >at home, 90: >http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4476240

18 years, 5 months

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S100 archive?

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Fred Cisin wrote: > I think you'd have trouble copyrighting a copy of a copyrighted work. It depends. Certainly when Andy Warhol makes a mechanically- assisted reproduction of a Campbell's Soup Can, or 32 of them, he's making original art... just based on a trademarked logo. I know, trademarks are not the same as copyrights. But other artists do montages of newspaper clippings to great effect, and there the originals were protected by copyright. Or look at Blue Man Group's "Project 13". They didn't own the copyrights to the original documents, yet they make a perfectly good statement using them. At the same time I'm sure BMG pays for the clips of Devo and Freebird they use to great effect in their shows :-) His status as a former commercial artist of course has a lot to do with his other art. I bumped up against that specialty several times over my career and have a lot of respect for what they do. I also like Roy Lichtenstein, BTW :-). Others here probably don't like this kind pop-art stuff. But my experience with commercial artists has really made me appreciate mechanical processes as well as the results. Tim.

18 years, 5 months

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Aurthur C. Clarke has passed

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

>>> It is sad that he has passed on. He was a brilliant, visionary man >>> that, luckily for us, left a legacy of great writings that will >>> live on. >> True. But if I remember authors right, 2001 never did come true. But geostationary communications satellites did. > Nor did 1984 - however, meanwhile, I hear people call Orwell an > optimist. > > Anyway, the old SF visionaries are leaving us. Asimov, Lem, now > Clarke; > the golden times of SF disappear. > > Concerning 2001: I doubt I really want to have a HAL9000. Nothing wrong with the hardware, it had been programmed to be a serial murderer under certain conditions. Deliberate, not even a bug and of course contrary to the laws of robotics. Somewhat like HAL, sadly my father has dementia and likes reciting nursery rhymes (and gets them wrong), which gets under the skin of the other residents of his nursing home and he had a fight with an old lady who broke his glasses and he hit her with his walking stick. The staff took the stick away and later we got a call to say he had had a fall, hardly surprising. Gone slightly off topic there a bit, sorry. Does anyone here have a use for a BROKEN wide format Hewlett Packard ink jet printer? I think we got it in 2000, so not ten years old quite yet but useful for printing schematics if you have the knowledge/patience to repair it. It might even be a current model, things move slowly in the wide format side of things where low volumes force design costs to be recouped over longer periods.

18 years, 5 months

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Parametron PC-1

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:37:42 -0700 > From: "Marcin Wichary" The parametron computers were late 50's/early 60's, not 70's. CHM has a brochure on the NEC box: http://www.computerhistory.org/brochures/companies.php?alpha=m- p&company=com-42bc20c009b92 A couple of photos here: http://www.math.cs.musashi-tech.ac.jp/~shida/museum/parametron.html This book dedicates a chapter to parametron computers: http://www.i-ise.com/en/lecture/lect_200512b.html Herb Grosch mentions meeting Eiichi Goto in his "Bit Slices" autobio: http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/computer.html If you search on the Kana string for "Parametron", you'll find lots more: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%91%E3%83%A9%E3%83%A1%E3%83%88%E3%8 3%AD%E3%83%B3 Also, these Japanese papers on the PC-1: http://museum.ipsj.or.jp/guide/pdf/prosym/1996prosym_008.pdf http://www.iijlab.net/~ew/pc1/mtac.html Here's a page full of links to various PC-1 resources (many in English): http://www.iijlab.net/~ew/pc1/ ...and there's Eiichi Goto's parameteron patents in the uspto.gov database (I'll leave the search to you; it's pretty easy). Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

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Plessey PMDD/8b - *ANY* Information available?

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, I want to get a Plessey PMDD/8b get to work on a PDP-8/e. It is not my system and I currently don't have access to it. So I would be very lucky to get every piece of information about the drive. I think it has a cartdridge. That's where my knowledge ends. And I know that there's no documentation with the machine. So I need the luck that somebody can help me out. Is that drive RK05 compatible and works with RK8-E? Could I hook a RK05 from a 11/23 to an RK8-E controller? Or are there differences? Would be great to be prepared when I arrive at the machine... Many thanks, best wishes, Philipp :-)

18 years, 5 months

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Morrow MD2 - Available in B.C.

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

Forwarding (after confirming with originator) an offer for two MD2 system located in BC. If interested, email me off-list and I will forward to you the email of the originator. Dave ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Subject: Morrow MD2 Date sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:21:34 -0700 I have two Morrow MD2 CP/M computers which I would like to get rid of. One, when last checked a couple of years ago, was still working and complete with original software, books, and Lear Siegler terminal. The other was a spare and although it used to work I borrowed a disk drive from it. And I'm not sure about the books and software for this one. I see you already have one of these, but if you are interested please let me know. I'm in BC. ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

18 years, 5 months

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BBC Micro reunion TONIGHT at Science Museum in London

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

Hopefully this gets out in time for those that may be able to attend: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7303288.stm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 5 months

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S100 archive?

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:06:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: S100 archive? On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, M H Stein wrote: >> I wouldn't call a scan or photocopy of a manual "intellectual property." >I'd be interested in hearing more of your definition of "intellectual >property". It seems to be different from that used by the USA legal >system, in which a copyrighted manual IS an embodiment of intellectual >property, as is any reproduction, particularly scan or photocopy. ------ My point exactly; a manual, and especially a scan or copy are the embodiment, not the IP itself; I think you'd have trouble copyrighting a copy of a copyrighted work. We were talking about "attribution;" if I were to quote one of Mark Twain's many witticisms it would still be attributed to him, not me. So "attribution" of a copy to one of several other copies of the same thing seems rather meaningless except as a matter of courtesy and I don't understand why some people seem to think it's useful and important information. But, having said that, you're absolutely right: the purpose of the Internet these days is indeed largely "the free sharing and exchange of other people's intellectual property," and a large part of that IP is specifically meant to be shared and exchanged. m

18 years, 5 months

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NGEN B26 - CTOS floppy? Was Convergence Technologies Series 186

by Michael.Elrick＠telecom.co.nz

Hi, Your posting was from quite a while a go but I thought I'd try dropping you a line. I was looking for some information related to the B26 hardware but there's not too much. I wondered how you got on with your one? I recently picked one up but I suspect that the floppy/HD card and perhaps the HD to be faulty so I can get to the 'L' prompt where it stops. The 'L' is where is checks for a floppy drive. I have changed what I can eg cables, floppy drive, cleaned it out etc but it does not want to go further. I picked it up with a pile of manuals, software and system disks. Did you ever get yours going? Any idea where I could source spares? If all else fails do you know someone who has an interest in the B26 and BTOS or CTOS? Michael Elrick.

18 years, 5 months

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PDP-11/05 core questions

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Ok, I decided to dive into the PDP-11/05 a bit tonight. First I'm trying to make sure I have all the right boards for when the time comes to assemble the system. I have the two CPU boards (M7260 and M7261, actually three of the latter!), the M9970A SCL connector board, and two M930 terminators...so now I need some memory. The stamped silver tag on the side of the chassis says "11/05 SC" which I assume means it's got an 11/05S backplane in it. This assumption is supported by the board location sticker inside the card cage, which is labeled for a 16K core subsystem (H217, G114, G235, M8293). The problem is, I don't have that core subsystem...I have enough boards (in multiple copies) to put together an 8K subsystem, using H214 (or H215?), G213, and G110 boards. My question is, will this subsystem function in this backplane, or is the 11/05S backplane only compatible with the higher-density core subsystem? There's one other problem...The circuit breaker on the rear of the chassis is physically damaged. Does anyone have a spare one kicking around, or know of a currently-available replacement that I can order >from a component distributor? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

18 years, 5 months

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Parametron/PC-1?

by mwichary＠gmail.com

Does anyone have any information (especially photos) of the Japanese Parametron/PC-1 machine, or any book/periodical sources where I can find some? Here are some links I found, but I was hoping for more: ? http://www.thocp.net/hardware/parametron.htm ? http://www.ipsj.or.jp/katsudou/museum/computer/0080_e.html ? http://www.ipsj.or.jp/katsudou/museum/computer/0180_e.html -- Marcin Wichary Sr. user experience designer, Google Graphical User Interface gallery >> www.guidebookgallery.org

18 years, 5 months

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Decmate

by djg＠pdp8.net

>The DECmate II (VT100 housing) has the ability to download code into >the PDP-8 through the terminal port via a special control sequence. I >haven't tried it on mine yet. > Do you know what the control sequence and data format is and/or what manual documents it? I though the sequence went VT78 (in VT52), DECmate/VT278 (in VT100), DECmate II (in big PC like case), DECmate III (in little PC like case), DECmate III+ (same)

18 years, 5 months

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A. C. Clarke has passed -> 2ost century visionary

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

I agree to some extent with Rick. Nevertheless I think no matter what came to past or didn't the masses have come to accept, sometimes reluctantly, the technocracy we live in today. Even those in the developing world are being engaged in the communications and technical revolution. A. C. Clarke showed us that we need not fear the unknown. Murray McCullough Message: 28 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:12:55 -0600 From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Aurthur C. Clarke has passed To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <47E12D77.5080206 at jetnet.ab.ca> <47E12D77.5080206 at jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Rick Bensene wrote: > It is sad that he has passed on. He was a brilliant, visionary man > that, luckily for us, left a legacy of great writings that will live on. True. But if I remember authors right, 2001 never did come true. > Rick Bensene > > > .

18 years, 5 months

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Expanding RAM on Data I/O 29B

by mardy＠voysys.com

I have a working Data I/O 29B with a 128K RAM module which only had half of the DRAM sockets populated. From looking at the schematic, it seemed that by simply populating the remaining DRAM sockets that I would bring the module up to the full 128K. I tried that, but the 29B still only reports 64K of RAM. What did I miss? -Mardy

18 years, 5 months

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FTGH: SGI 14" monitor (yes, really) - Yorks UK

by listmailgoeshere＠gmail.com

Hi cctech'ers, I have an SGI 14" monitor here which needs a new home. Yes, it really is a 13W3 monitor this small. Type number is Wyse WY-851, and it has the "old style" SGI logo plus the "Silicon Graphics" wording on the front. I can ship this anywhere in the UK (except highlands, islands and NI) for 8 GBP, you pay PayPal fees. I'll ship internationally if anyone is desperate for it, but it's likely to cost you more than $100US, so you'd have to be pretty keen. If it's not gone fairly soon it'll end up going to the recycler. Please drop me a mail if you'd like it. Ed.

18 years, 5 months

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Pantone or RAL reference for the blue color of the IMSAI

by c_habib＠bluewin.ch

Thanks for all the interesting anectodes and tips in answer to my question. As i am restoring an Imsai, before asking my local car paint shop to repaint the cover, i was hoping to get the exact color reference from someone of our group. Just for the sake of exactitude of the restoration. It would be marvelous if Sellam Ismail would give us beside the address of his friend the reference of the paint he used, or was it a "decorative" paint far away from the IMSAI blue? Living in Switzerland sending the cover to California would be a rather expensive exercice! Incidentally yes i tend to agree that the original paint was powder coated (at least on on my cover). Kindest regards Charles

18 years, 5 months

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S100 archive?

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:39:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: S100 archive? >On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Alexandre Souza wrote: <snip> >> Hey people, why do you do the work? For personal promotion or to help >> people like you who needed this info sometime and didn't found it? >"The purpose of the internet is for the free sharing and exchange of other >people's intellectual property." ? <snip> I wouldn't call a scan or photocopy of a manual "intellectual property." How about: "One of the goals of the Classic Computer community is the preservation and free sharing and exchange of documentation and media related to obsolete computer systems, with the assumed or explicit permission of the original owner of the intellectual property." m

18 years, 5 months

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Z80 emulator in perl

by david＠cantrell.org.uk

Dunno if this will be considered on-topic or not, as it's not about real hardware - if not, my humble apologies. Last night I released a Z80 emulator written in perl to the CPAN. You can download it from: http://search.cpan.org/~dcantrell/CPU-Emulator-Z80-0.9/ and the source is in CVS on sourceforget: http://drhyde.cvs.sourceforge.net/drhyde/perlmodules/CPU-Emulator-Z80/ It emulates almost all of the "undocumented" instructions, I/O, and interrupt mode 1. I am very grateful to the author of FUSE for licencing it in such a way that I could use his comprehensive suite of tests. Now I have to write an assembler, and have the fun of writing an operating system :-) -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness On the bright side, if sendmail is tied up routing spam and pointless uknot posts, it's not waving its arse around saying "root me!" -- Peter Corlett, in uknot

18 years, 5 months

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Decmate

by djg＠pdp8.net

>Thanks for the os78 source site - thats awesome! How does one normally get >these images onto a disk? I' not sure if the older PCs supported 8"FDD. >I would need something like Teledisk as well. > With earlier 8's which you can manually load code into I have dump and restore programs you can use. On the VT78 their is no way I know of to get code into it without a special ROM on the back. Some older PC's controllers will work with 8" disks. I tried it so I could format but never got it working before I got a drive that could format itself. Don't know if its the PC or drive I was trying to use. PUTR looks like it should work http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/. I have used it for RX50 disks but not 8". I think the images I have are compatible with it. This may also work but I am not familiar with it. http://www.dunfield.com/dave/dsktools.htm If this doesn't seem practical email me, I can make you a disk. Won't guarantee how prompt though.

18 years, 5 months

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Apollo Domain 300 series in UK looking home

by paco.linux＠gmail.com

Hi: This is in the newsgroups: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.apollo/browse_thread/thread/a53796e… Paco

18 years, 5 months

1
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pdp-8 tapes on ebay

by brad＠heeltoe.com

I suppose there's little chance the person who just bought the pdp-8 paper tapes on ebay is on this list. but if you are, could you read them make and them available on the web? thanks, -brad

18 years, 5 months

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Fw: TI-74 S calculator

by elromano1989＠wp.pl

----- Original Message ----- From: roman.frankowski To: cctech at classiccmp.org Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:27 PM Subject: TI-74 S calculator Hello !!! I've got a calculator TI-74 S, and I don't have a instruction of this calculator. So, can You sent in my mail all about TI-74 S???

18 years, 5 months

2
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stock tickers

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

A big part of my involvement in classic computers comes from a fascination for antique machinery. For instance, I'm fascinated by old glass-domed stock tickers. Now, I can buy an exacting reproduction for some $25,000 or $3,000 from the stocktickercompany.com. That's way too pricey for me, so does anyone here know where I can get a fixer-upper? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

18 years, 5 months

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PCB EAGLE CAD and simple Z80 computer design

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi, I am interested in making a simple Z80 computer. I would like to use a CAD program, preferably one with autorouting, to design a PCB for it rather than use prototype boards. Eagle PCB CAD looks promising but I have no experience in using a PCB CAD program. As this is a hobby, I'd like to keep the costs less than $200. The hobbyist license costs $125 which would be ideal. http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ I tried Kicad but it did not work very well for me. I was able to layout the schematic but the PCB layout was very complex and many of the parts were not supported correctly. I was not able to get the autorouting feature to work well either. Has any one use the Eagle CAD program to make a simple SBC and can offer some advice on how to do make my own PCB for a Z80 SBC? I'd like to start small so here is the circuit I have selected: http://z80.info/gfx/z80test.gif Has anyone done this and would be willing to advise and/or work on a Z80 SBC project? Thanks! Andrew Lynch PS, I think this is "on topic" since Z80 SBCs are definitely "classic computers" like in NorthStar, KayPro, WaveMate, Zenith, Vector Graphic, etc.

18 years, 5 months

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S100 archive?

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------Original Message: Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:21:46 -0400 From: "Kelly Leavitt" <kelly at catcorner.org> Subject: RE: S100 archive? > Does anyone recognize this archive as a mirror of other spots? > > http://maben.homeip.net:8217/static//S100/index.html > > It seems to be connected to majzel.com, registered to a > Agata Majzel, Flat 22, 27 Hereford Road, London W2 4TQ. > > - John Seems like a case of "My archive is bigger than your archive." I see stuff in here from a lot of different archives and personal web sites. Kelly ----------Reply: Is this a problem or do you just like to belittle someone's hard work? As a fellow Cromemco fan I happen to know Marcus, the person behind that site (in Switzerland btw.) a little bit and I know for a fact that he has spent an enormous amount of time and effort scanning and indexing material that is not available elsewhere. Is there a problem with adding material that *is* already available in order to make a section as complete as possible, and to have it conveniently findable in an index? If any of the actual "owners" of that material want to keep it to themselves and *THEIR* site, I'm sure he would remove it. I've also never known him to brag about it in any way, only to point to his site on occasion when he runs across someone on a forum somewhere looking for something that he has. Since it's my own interest and in a very tiny part my contribution, I defy you to find any one of many dozens of his 300+ Cromemco documents elsewhere, unless they've been copied from his site. Compare it to bitsaver's Cromemco collection for example (6 manuals at last count, although I don't in any way mean to belittle Al's enormous effort), or even Harte's site which is one of the better ones. That's not to mention the actual code and disk images which are even rarer anywhere else, all a work constantly in progress. It's comments like yours that make some people ask why the hell they bother; I hope you don't have to grit your teeth one day and retrieve some elusive boot disk or manual from his site... And if you prefer to Google through the many fragmented and scattered sources on the Internet, by all means do do. m

18 years, 5 months

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Emailing: PCB EAGLE CAD and simple Z80 computer design.htm

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Andrew Lynch wrote: > Hi, > > I am interested in making a simple Z80 computer. I would like to use a CAD > program, preferably one with autorouting, to design a PCB for it rather than > use prototype boards. > > Eagle PCB CAD looks promising but I have no experience in using a PCB CAD > program. As this is a hobby, I'd like to keep the costs less than $200. > The hobbyist license costs $125 which would be ideal. Have you looked at gEDA? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ________________________________ -----REPLY----- Hi Dave, I did try gEDA about a year ago and I recall having problems finding the Zilog chips supported by the library. Maybe that has changed? I downloaded the Eagle freeware version just to test drive it. I was able to make a rough layout of the SBC with out the chips placed on the schematic. Of course, I would still have to connect all the wires and such but at least the bare minimum components seem to be present and supported. It even gave a crude layout of the PCB, again with no traces due to no connections. Even with that simple Z80 SBC, it exceeded the capacity of the Eagle free version PCB. Has anyone used gEDA to make a simple Z80 SBC or something like it? Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 5 months

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PDP-8 games with VC8/VR14 display?

by djg＠pdp8.net

>I am curious about the existence of PDP-8 games making use of a CRT >display. Would be fun to have more than Spacewar... > I haven't found much. The Kaleidoscope was fun to play with. Its in the 8E small computer handbook page 7-51 (page 53 of scan below) http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?id=126 Java version at http://www.scoundrelspoint.com/kaleidoscope/index.html for people who don't have a VC8E. I have a tape of PDP-12 games online that I though about porting but haven't. They seem to be mostly 8 code (binary only). >And: I found a SPCWR3.PA somewhere on the web. It has built in support >for the LAB-8/e programmable real time clock. But... The clock doesn't >generate interrupts, display is painted only on a key stroke. Anyone a clue? > Are you sure you set the defines correct when you built it to select that clock? That your clock is working? I would either manually check out the clock or run the diagnostics. I have run it but using the 60hz clock. http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=dk8e&stype=Par… See dhdkaa.dg http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/os8_html?act=dir;fn=images/os8/diagpack2.rk05;s…

18 years, 5 months

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Data I/O 29A vs. 29B

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

>In order to support my classic computers I need a GOOD EPROM >Programmer (that puts it on topic ... ). > >I've used and like the Data I/O 29B but don't know squat about >the 29A. Are they about the same or is the 29A a POS ?? I have both the 29B and the 29A. The 29B is more capable, more common and in my opinion a better choice. Physically they look almost identical, but there are significant operational differences. According to the manual, the 29A can have a maximum of 16K of buffer memory - this would limit you to 16K or smaller devices (such as 27128), however my 29A came with 64K installed, and can do up to 64K devices (such as 27512). My 29B has 256k of buffer memory, which I believe is the max it can have, and this is enough for pretty much anything you are going to find in a classic computer. I don't use the 29A much - I got it mainly as a spare... but IIRC it either doesn't do automatic device identification, or does it in a more limited way... The 29B is quite good at it. This may be more more a function of the device adapter than the unit itself, which brings us to... Equally important is the device adapter that you get with the unit - you probably want one of the universal "unipak" adapters that supports many different devices. My 29A has a "Unipak2" and the 29B has a "Unipak2B". The 29B/Unipak2B combination can program many more devices. The family/pinout codes for the 29A/2 are only 2 digits where they are 3 digits on the 29B/2B. It would be worthwhile for you to get the device family/pinout code charts for the programming adapters offered with the units and look at the list of supported devices - this will give you an idea of the capability of the unit in question. You will also want to check the RAM installed in the unit, as it may be difficult to add (manuals reference expansion cards). The 29B shows the installed RAM at power-up. For the 29A you need to use the edit command to see how far up in memory you can modify. The 29B has more/better commands and functions as well, although the 29A is still a capable unit. >What would be a FAIR price for either ? Is it worth more to >opt for the 29B ?? Thanks. At the same/close price, I'd pick a 29B hands down. A 29A could still be a good choice if you get it cheap enough, and your needs don't require devices larger than it can do - be sure to check the installed RAM and device programming adapter. I have no idea what they are actually worth these days, but FYI - I paid $70 for my 29B quite a few years ago - it came with the Unipak2B and a Gangpak (lets you program up to 8 devices at once - I never use it). I picked up the 29A for $25 a couple of years ago, it came with the Unipak2. I've collected a fair bit of Data I/O documentation in PDF format, including manuals for both units, the programming adapters, and device family/pinout code charts for them. Contact me if you need anything. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

18 years, 5 months

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Motors for 14-in hard drives

by djg＠pdp8.net

>What size motor was typically used in a 14-in fixed drive, and what >sort of mechanical interface did a disk pack have with the spindle or >hub? I haven't been able to find any really clear pictures or >diagrams of the mechanics of such units. > The RK05 is a single platter 14" drive with the platter magnetically held on the spindle. Pictures here. http://www.pdp8online.com/rk05/rk05.shtml

18 years, 5 months

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End of restoration of the early French computer SEREL ODP-505 (germanium CPU)

by pichotjm＠free.fr

|pichotjm wrote: |> method? In France, collectors prefer to discuss in newsgroups |> (fr.comp.ordinosaures)Have a nice day!JMP |Sadly my ISP doesn't carry that newsgroup (fr.comp.os.* is |all they seem to have!). |Antonio Hi, Be carefull! fr.comp.ordinosaures is in french.The best way for you, would be to subscribe to the news server Astraweb.com. You will have to pay a one time fee of about $9 (6 euros), and with that subscriptionyou are authorized to download 25 GB of data. (valid for your life!)A second way is to subscribe with Teranews or Bubbanews. The one time fee will be $3.95. And you were able to download 50 MB/day. (valid for your life!) but i dont know if you will have a problem at the first connection: the list of NG can be very heavy (more than 50 MB).I subscribed to all three. Without any problems. I do same subscriptions for friends (10 to 15 times)Just one small problem with Teranews, they correct within 10 mn! (note I live in France and they are in USA!)JMP

18 years, 5 months

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Motors for 14-in hard drives

by bnansel＠bigpond.net.au

What size motor was typically used in a 14-in fixed drive, and what sort of mechanical interface did a disk pack have with the spindle or hub? I haven't been able to find any really clear pictures or diagrams of the mechanics of such units. -Bobby

18 years, 5 months

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S100 archive?

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------Original Message: Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:49:22 -0700 From: dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: S100 archive? > From: dm561 at torfree.net > > ---------Original Message: > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:21:46 -0400 > From: "Kelly Leavitt" > Subject: RE: S100 archive? > >> Does anyone recognize this archive as a mirror of other spots? >> >> http://maben.homeip.net:8217/static//S100/index.html >> >> It seems to be connected to majzel.com, registered to a >> Agata Majzel, Flat 22, 27 Hereford Road, London W2 4TQ. >> >> - John > > Seems like a case of > "My archive is bigger than your archive." > > I see stuff in here from a lot of different archives and personal web sites. > > Kelly > > ----------Reply: > > Is this a problem or do you just like to belittle someone's hard work? > Hi I think you miss the point. It is consider proper to credit the sources of such information. The work he has done is great and he has done it very well. There is just no mention of where he aquired much of it. Dwight ---------Reply: Well, as usual I think _you_ missed _my_ point: ;-) If you want to publicise the site here, fine. If you think his lack of attribution is self-serving, dishonest, discourteous, whatever, and it bothers you enough to write, then send an email to Marcus or the person who you think deserves mention (if you can find him/her), instead of bad-mouthing him here (since this is about courtesy, right?) m

18 years, 5 months

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OT: Aurthur C. Clarke has passed

by rdawson16＠hotmail.com

at home, 90: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4476240 _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

18 years, 5 months

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S100 archive?

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:25:57 -0600 From: John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> Subject: Re: S100 archive? At 03:06 PM 3/17/2008, M H Stein wrote: >>It's comments like yours that make some people ask why the hell they >>bother; I hope you don't have to grit your teeth one day and retrieve some >>elusive boot disk or manual from his site... >I didn't criticize it, and neither did Kelly as far as I saw. >I wanted to point it out to the group and determine whether it >was indeed a new trove or not. The site itself doesn't tell me >whether it's copied from elsewhere or not. That would make it >more useful and descriptive, wouldn't it? My mistake then; "Seems like a case of 'My archive is bigger than your archive.' and "I see stuff in here from a lot of different archives and personal web sites." struck me as critical and dismissive. Sorry if I misunderstood. I'd have thought something like, "Hey folks, I just ran across a site, etc. with lots of stuff, although some of it looks like unattributed copies from other sites; anybody know anything about it?" would express what you say above a little better. FWIW, it's been around for a few years and if this were the kind of bragging that "mine's bigger than yours" implies, I'd have thought it'd be better known by now. I couldn't care less whether he puts my name on the stuff I've scanned or copied and sent to him as long as it's out there and easy to find (and I'm a little PO'd about stuff I've sent to folks who promised to make it publicly available but never did AFAIK), and I don't see the need to put up yet another Web site of my own and fragment the resource even more. It might be different if I had a site and he copied it without my knowledge, but that'd be between him and me. If having their name mentioned is important to someone, let him or her send him an email. I don't see how attribution makes it any more useful or descriptive though; does it matter to you whether he scanned something or I did? The only attribution that matters to me is the "real" attribution, i.e. the name of the original company or publisher. Since some of the sites he copied from probably copied it from another site themselves, tracking down who actually "did the work" could be a lot of fun and extra work. >The "World's Largest Ball of Saved Twine Bits" approach doesn't tell me much. >If you take something from elsewhere, why not attribute? If you made >something yourself, why not tell me it's unique? >- John Guess I just don't get why it's so important to *you* where it came from as long as you can find it, unless it's material that you copied or scanned yourself. If pigs ever fly and someone actually wanted to thank the person who did the work after downloading something, they'd probably often have to sift through the various sites with identical copies anyway. Having said all that, although it'd be much extra work for thousands of files attribution would indeed be a courtesy and is the custom in this community; if it keeps you awake at night why not send Marcus an email instead of kvetching about it here, behind his back as it were. And thanks for the reminder; playing Al Y's "Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota" on my iTunes as I write... m

18 years, 5 months

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Tandy TRS-80 Model 4

by tim＠tim-mann.org

Sometimes the troglodyte approach to fixing keyboards works: just bang on the bad key for a while, and it may start to work again. Bang gently, of course -- don't take "troglodyte" too literally. :0) Also, on some types of keyboard, you can get at the contacts just by pulling off they keycap. I have no idea if any Model 4's used that type, though. Quite likely not. -- Tim Mann tim at tim-mann.org http://tim-mann.org/

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S100 archive? replies marcus

by amouses＠gmail.com

Hi Kelly, To answer your comments from cctalk/cctech ... and to put things into context ... As a passionate computer person I have (over the last 5 years) tried to do something with my fond memories of the S100 days and in particular my Cromemco restoration project. I started to collect and scan my personal Cromemco documents and then some of the other peripherals and disks I was using. Before I knew it I was getting carried away and starting my own private archive. Things grew from there and I started to add other publically available archives. I don't store anything that I was not really involved or fascinated with. So for example DEC VAX and PDP stuff .. really no, the IBM VM370 CMS command guide ... really yes. The Cromemco RDOS 1.0 Instruction manual 1.0 .. I get a little misty eyed. The actual root of the S100 stuff is http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/index.html . Initially it was broadcast solely on port 8217 but now also on port 80 since people kept complaining about access (especially from behind corporate firewalls). Off topic is the fact that anybody who works with AIX, Backup, TSM, Storage or SAN should also be interested, since <cd ../computers > : your secret and my daily reference to the very best documentation in these areas. It's certainly not a bragging site and yes, some of the information is from other places, but it's a good reference for me and believe me I have spent hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours (yes really) producing high quality, text searchable PDF scans. I'm probably doing something wrong but uncle Google still does not index most of it correctly, but if you poke around there is a lot there. There is a CREDITS directory so if it's something that you'd like crediting or needs removing then you just have to ask. It seems the older I get the more nostalgia tugs harder and this is a good way to for me to remember the "good old days" when you perhaps felt you might understand it all from that TMS5501 on the TUART to the IOP Z80 code running to support those tightly offloaded processes, to the output to port FFH to switch the XPU from Z80 to 68010 mode or the rewiring and code insertion needed to support Tandon 8 inch drives over Persci under CDOS and CROMIX. Today I know too many software "experts" who never wrote a program let alone a compiler or hardware experts who never even used a soldering iron. It's shocking! And for the record (Ann and Kelly) , we absolutely love cats Kind regards, Marcus Bennett (and agata)

18 years, 5 months

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S100 Archive

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Do you think someone will make a list like: > > file.pdf 102941 bytes copied from bitsavers > file2.pdf 102384 bytes copied from sellam ismail no, what I would like to see is a file like: path/foo1.file MD5 sum of the file path/foo2.file MD5 sum of the file so I can write a script to trivially tell what is new/unique I can keep track of the provenance of the files just fine if you have a unique identifier (like an MD5 sum) in a simple text file at the top of the heirarchy.

18 years, 5 months

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Manual/Docs/Help for Micro-Term Ergo 201?

by derschjo＠msu.edu

I have a Micro-Term Ergo 201 that I'd like to use with my PDP-11. Just one problem -- I can't figure out how to get this thing to save the settings in the Set-Up menus, so I have to adjust the baud rate, etc. every time I power it on. There doesn't seem to be any obvious way to do it -- is this just supposed to happen automatically when I exit? Thanks, Josh

18 years, 5 months

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Motors for 14-in hard drives

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

From: Robert Nansel <bnansel at bigpond.net.au> > > What size motor was typically used in a 14-in fixed drive, and what > sort of mechanical interface did a disk pack have with the spindle or > hub? I haven't been able to find any really clear pictures or > diagrams of the mechanics of such units. I don't know, but I do know that they run up to more than their rated speed and then slow down so that they come online faster. There is a problem if you load a disc, realise its the wrong one, run the drive down, change the disc and power it up again. I did that once on an 80MB five high pack drive and burnt the motor out. It was on a GEC 4080 and I think the drive was a re-badged CDC one.

18 years, 5 months

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PDP-8 games with VC8/VR14 display?

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hey folks, I am curious about the existence of PDP-8 games making use of a CRT display. Would be fun to have more than Spacewar... And: I found a SPCWR3.PA somewhere on the web. It has built in support for the LAB-8/e programmable real time clock. But... The clock doesn't generate interrupts, display is painted only on a key stroke. Anyone a clue? Best wishes, Philipp :-)

18 years, 5 months

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Motors for 14-in hard drives

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:55:13 +1030 > From: Robert Nansel > What size motor was typically used in a 14-in fixed drive, and what sort > of mechanical interface did a disk pack have with the spindle or hub? I > haven't been able to find any really clear pictures or diagrams of the > mechanics of such units. Wait a sec--a "fixed disk" is just that--that medium is *not* removable. So, something like a Shugart SA-4000 is a fixed 14" disk drive. A drive using disk packs is a "removeable media" drive. Two birds of very different colors. Have a look at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/40823100D_853_Maint_Feb69.pdf for a manual on CDC's answer to the IBM 2311. There's a good description of the threaded-spindle pack mounting there, as well as the head-load mechanism. For a fixed 14" drive, have a look at: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/shugart/39005-1_SA4000_OEM_Apr79.pdf Both use fractional-horsepower induction motors; the CDC drive uses a 3-phase motor that's probably somewhere around 1/3 hp (the specs don't say, but the start/run current ratings give a clue). The Shugart fixed drive uses a single-phase motor that's around 1/8 hp. Assuming that the motor can overcome the frictional losses and interia of the media assembly, the actual motor rating probably isn't terribly critical. Both use belt-drive. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 5 months

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PDP 11/93 + RSX 11M

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> I?m in trouble with the system as the boot stops at : * RSX-11M - Plus V4.3 BL66 2044.KW System "Pt/Ps" * > RED DU:=SY: > when loading from RD53 (RZ 28M-E) > and stops at: * RSX-11M/RSX-11M Plus Standalone Copy System V03 > when loading from RX33 (Brusys floppy) > Do you have an idea why the boot does not go on? Most common cause for those symptoms is that the LTC (Line Time Clock aka "60 Hz" although probably "50 Hz" for you) clock is disabled. On a 11/93 in a BA23 or BA123, it might be disabled because of the little front panel DIP switches, or because the cable going to the front panel selectors switches fell off, or in the setup firmware on the processor board. I think the 11/93 can be configured to provide its own fake LTC interrupts from on-CPU-board crystal too (been a long time!) Tim.

18 years, 5 months

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Unknown Omnibus printer interface: Help needed

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, I have two Omnibus printer interfaces, not from DEC. They could be something german... They are labeled "CSI printer interface" and have 20 pin Berg connector. It seems to be a 7 bit interface. Does anybody know anything or has any ideas? Docs? Perhaps the card is a clone of a DEC standard card. So it would be interesting to get information about the term "CSI printer".... Thanks a lot, Philipp P.S.: I could also need a DEC parallel printer card (Centronics or Data Products compatible) as well...

18 years, 5 months

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