- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

How many ICs does it take to put a man on the moon

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

Here's a funny story. Margaret Atwood, famous Canadian woman of letters (writer, novelist, "The Handmaid's Tale", "Oryx & Crake", etc.) was heard in an interview on a high-school radio program to be questioning the Apollo moon landings. It's not quite clear whether she believes it was a hoax, whether she was hoaxing the hoax, just encouraging kids to question things, or later backpedalled to avoid embarrassment. One version: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/23/margaret-atwoods-just- wondering-about-that-silly-moon-landing-hoax/ What makes this topical to the list though, is one of reasons she gave to question the landings: The question about the moon landing is why haven?t we been back. And it was done in an age where computers were as big as a couple of rooms. If you even look at the Space Odyssey 2001 HAL the computer, and I think that movie came out in the late 60s, HAL the computer is huge. We didn?t yet have microchips. So I just wonder, how did they do that? Why they haven?t done it again if it was so easy? Later, after backpedalling a bit, she still says: But the questions about the computer technology needed to do something this complex remain with us? what were they using, in those days before microchips? How heavy was it? Apparently it only takes 40 years, not 2000 (Antikythera), to start questioning whether our 'forebears' were able to do things without the tools we have today. And she was publishing in the 60s, it's not like it was all before her time.

15 years, 7 months

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CHM's "Revolution" opens this morning

by aek＠bitsavers.org

One of the things I've been working on for the past five years. http://venturebeat.com/2011/01/13/that-old-computer-in-your-garage-is-histo…

15 years, 7 months

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Would a bog-standard 4164 be a suitable replacement for a MCM4517 in a Sega SC3000H? (was Re: Introduction - Terry Stewart (tezza))

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 10/19/10, Mike van Bokhoven <mike at fenz.net> wrote: > Hi Terry, > > Welcome to the list, from another NZ classic-cmper. Whereabouts in NZ are > you located? Hi, Terry, I'm curious, too. I've spent about six months of the past 15 years in NZ, mostly in Christchurch, with trips to Wellington, Auckland, and Hamilton. > I also enjoy getting dead machines going; my current challenge is finding > RAM for a Sega SC3000H. I was hoping someone might have some spare MCM4517s > for sale (from memory, hopefully that number's right), Those are just +5V-only 16Kx1 DRAMs, right? The pinout is the same as the 4164 except for pin 9 (NC on a MCM4517, A7 on a 4164). Could you use a 4164 instead? (it might require a pull-up or pull-down on pin 9 so it doesn't float). Those are rather abundant and still available from a number of sources. -ethan

15 years, 7 months

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Computers & Chess

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

A local museum wants me to see if an exhibit can be put together pertaining to Computers in Chess. We wouldn't be looking for just "a row of microcomputers playing chess", we'd be looking for items of historical significance, firsts, etc. That being said, we need items of interest to novices as well as experts. The duration of the exhibit would be somewhere between 3 and 6 months, definitely not a permanent exhibit. The museum would of course pay for professional shipping of items and insurance. The floor space available for the exhibit could be up to 4000 sq/ft if need be. Anyone have parts of Deep Blue? ;) Would any listmembers have items of significance/interest to Computers in Chess, and be willing to loan them to the museum for this exhibit? If so, please email me off-list and if we can use it, I'll send you a copy of the museum's facility report (which details security, environmental controls, professional handling, etc.). I'd also appreciate any ideas/pointers for exhibits or places to check for items of interest. Thanks in advance! Jay

15 years, 7 months

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Kindle and bitsavers?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

All of my relatives have gone with Nooks rather than Kindles for themselves and their children, primary reasons being that the Nook supports the ePub open ebook format and Barnes and Noble ebooks are cheaper than Amazon's. Less important is the capacitive touchscreen. Early firmware for the Nook had issues, new versions are fine. This is what they tell me anyway since I don't own one myself nor have I paid much attention to ebooks.

15 years, 7 months

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Kindle and bitsavers?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

Did a little research myself and it appears that the Nook has a micro-SD slot whereas the latest Kindles no longer have SD slots.

15 years, 7 months

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Kindle and bitsavers

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> how much of the archive would fit onto one of these devices? Bitsavers is well over 120 Gbytes last time I checked, most of it PDF's. Depending on generation of Kindle you get 1.4 to 3.3 Gbytes of user storage. Last time I made a DVD-R set of bitsavers content it filled circa 28 DVD's. > how much of an advantage would one of these devices hold over a laptop? The Kindle screen is smaller than most laptops but the portrait orientation is a better match to typical printed text than a laptop's landscape orientation so the screen real estate is way better utilized. Kindle displays by do not include ornamentation and all that other crap around the edge of the window and that's a true win for screen real estate usage too. I can't believe it's 2011 and most typical laptop and desktop display usage is devoted to crap like borders and icons and buttons. Toolbars are the crappiest idea in the world. When I see someone who has installed so many toolbars in their browser that half of the screen is taken up with them I just want to scream. Pixels per inch on the kindle is on the high end of current consumer displays but the same is true for many laptop displays too. Power consumption is way lower on the kindle. ("digital paper" vs LCD technology) Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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No subject

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> how much of the archive would fit onto one of these devices? Bitsavers is well over 120 Gbytes last time I checked, most of it PDF's. Depending on generation of Kindle you get 1.4 to 4 Gbytes of user storage. Last time I made a DVD-R set of bitsavers content it filled circa 28 DVD's. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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Favor to ask ....

by evan＠snarc.net

If anyone in the Silicon Valley area is going to Jane Smiley's lecture @ CHM tonight, and if you * AGREE * with my recent posts about ABC vs. ENIAC, then please e-mail me privately. I have a favor to ask. Thanks.

15 years, 7 months

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ENIAC ....

by jonas＠otter.se

Definition of "computer" from the Oxford Dictionaries Online: an electronic device which is capable of receiving information (data) in a particular form and of performing a sequence of operations in accordance with a predetermined but variable set of procedural instructions (program) to produce a result in the form of information or signals. a person who makes calculations, especially with a calculating machine. I suppose that would make ENIAC a computer, since the program is variable, even if only by moving lots of wires. /Jonas

15 years, 7 months

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Passing of Bill Mayberry, Terak co-founder

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Today I learned that William Mayberry, one of the cofounders of Terak, passed away in August 2010. He started as an EE at University of Illinois where he worked on the ILLIAC. He worked at Sperry Flight Systems. He designed the Space Shuttle MDM system, then went to Boeing and worked on the electronics of the 747, then the flight control and weapon systems of the Apache helicopter. In 1975, he cofounded Terak Computer and became its CEO. He'd always kept me in mind to help preserve his Terak history, and I'm glad to say his family is helping with that. I'm working with his widow to help preserve the materials she has. One of his nephews has an interest in preserving the Terak. Contact me if you could assist with physical rescue in the Phoenix area. - John

15 years, 7 months

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Need RL02 Controller for PDP-11/44 Restoration

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> I read through the blog - if the motors start spinning as you describe > (I envision you mean for a few seconds; please correct me if this is > wrong) _then_ the drive stops spinning, I doubt it's the capacitors. > If the motors _don't_ start moving when you put the drive online, then > that is one component to examine. The motors start to spin up, accelerate for a few seconds and then stop. A few years ago I fixed and RA81 that had the same symptoms by replacing the starting capacitor. > RA81s were at one point, exceedingly susceptible to HDA failure. ?I > don't recall the specific ECO levels, but some version after "E" used > a different glue than its predecessors leading to particulate > contamination leading to catastrophic failure. ?ISTR looking for "H2" > or "K2" drives after that disaster. Two RA81s have tan colored HDAs, one has a black HDA. I think that the black HDAs are the new design that doesn't crash so often. > RA81 drives have a DB25 inside. ?You can plug a terminal in and run > on-board diagnostics and monitor operations. ?You can run with the lid > up or lid down (snaking a ribbon cable out of the drive). ?The molex > connector next to the data connector is to power a small hand-held LED > terminal (I saw one once, used with a high voltage chassis for > particle physics, but the terminal was the same). > > Try plugging in a working VT220 and letting the drive tell you what it > thinks is going on. ?You might find that it's starting to spin up then > not liking what it sees and spinning down. I forgot that I have a DEC Termiflex that plugs into the RA80/81 and the TU81 diagnostic port. I will connect it to the drives this weekend and see if I can get more details on the problem. > Oh... just a detail - you mention locked heads - you _did_ pull the > cord to retension the drive belt, right? ?(for safe transport, the > RA81 has you locking the heads _and_ disengaging the motor from the > HDA by removing belt tension). ?If you didn't do this step, what I > think may happen is the onboard processor will start to spin the > motor, sense no rotation from the HDA, then spin the motor down and > emit a fault code. ?Maybe this is what you are seeing? I saw the pull cable on the right side of the drive. I have used those in the past to replace HDAs or motors. I will make sure that it was not in a position to release tension on the drive. > >> https://sites.google.com/site/ricmwarehouse/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-1144 > > Reading through your blog, I don't think you will have success with > booting 2.11BSD on your 11/44 with a TU81+ unless you have install > media that knows about that tape controller. ?The 2.9BSD tapes I have > require an "MS" device (older OSes might or might not require an "MT" > device). ?Back in the day, there were several incompatible tape > controller types, with different boot ROMs, and your install media had > to match your controller and ROMs (or you had to toggle in the > bootstrap). ?You can install 2.11BSD using vtserver and a virtual tape > drive though. ?Also, if you do get real 2.11BSD install tapes, you'd > probably want to be looking for a TU80 and, IIRC, an M7454 controller > card. > > -ethan I looked at the 2.11BSD setup document and it says that the TU81+ is a supported tape drive. There are two of those drives at RICM, but no TU80. The M8739 KLESI-UA interface for the TU81+ doesn't seem to be common or inexpensive. I think that the RCS/RI guys have one that I could borrow for an installation. It might be simpler to just use vtserver. Thanks for all of the comments. -- Michael Thompson

15 years, 7 months

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SCSI hard drives of large form factors

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

Here's something I was thinking about the other day. I *know* for a fact that SCSI interface hard drives existed with 8" platters. I've never seen one, however. Does anyone know of any specific model numbers, or have any product information or pictures of such devices? Along the same lines, did SCSI interface devices exist with 14" platters? An option for the venerable Fujitsu Eagle, perhaps? I know that Adaptec made a standalone SCSI-SMD bridge board. I have one, although I've never been able to get it to work. I got as far as hand-crafting SCSI commands to try to get it to format the drive, and it would sit there, device active, but the drive never stepped or seeked off the first cylinder. -Ian

15 years, 7 months

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Need RL02 Controller for PDP-11/44 Restoration

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 01/26/11 15:00, Michael Thompson<michael.99.thompson at gmail.com> wrote: > I am reassembling a PDP-11/44 from parts for the Rhode Island Computer > Museum. I would like to try an RL01 or RL02 drive on the system, but > we don't have another RL02 controller. > > Do any of you have a M7762 RL11 disk controller board that you could > donate or sell inexpensively for this project? Can't help on that one... > The RA81s won't spin up, so I suspect that I need to replace the > starting capacitors. > > Do any of you know where to get replacement starting capacitors for > the RA80 or RA81 drives? I assume you *are* aware of the power sequence bus of the RA8x drives. Without that one properly terminated, the drives will never spin up. Johnny

15 years, 7 months

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OT: DRAM memory controllers within FPGAs

by keithvz＠verizon.net

I was hoping to share my pain with others as a coping mechanism. :) Has anyone else worked with DRAM memory controller implementations within FPGAs? I have been struggling for a couple years to find a workable solution in a hobby environment, first on Xilinx and then on Altera. Both companies seem to push the embedded microprocessor solution, MicroBlaze and Nios II, respectively, as an answer. They both offer a built-in memory controller which makes access to the DRAM much much easier, as it's memory mapped to an address region. But the problem is that there is a certain amount of overhead associated with using the processor both in terms of speed and logic utilization. The processors have a maximum speed and making a "gateway" out of the processor doesn't work for any real application. Many people push "opencores" and say there are 30 or 40 open source memory controllers without realizing that all of the limitations eliminate 99% of what's out there, including: Controllers designed for a particular memory architecture/chip type/ bus width Custom busses that aren't documented Some just don't work Require a specific vendor + FGPA because they use proprietary built-in hardware and so on. There are commercial solutions which cost way too much $$$ and often have advanced features which complicate use for the average hobbyist. I need something that has a FIFO-like(or maybe sram-like) interface on it, and that supports single data rate SDRAM. Something simple. Anyone else run into problems with getting a working memory controller for your projects? Thanks Keith

15 years, 7 months

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WTD: 386 motherboard

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, It seems my 386 has gone off to join the Choir Invisible. I pulled the motherboard to clean off some battery residue and other gunk, and replace the RTC chip socket -- now it's completely dead. I'm getting "D-SUB: NO INPUT" on the monitor, no beeps or noise from the board, no signs of life whatsoever. The HDD spins up, and the lights blink, but the brain isn't doing squat. I did find a broken 14.31818MHz xtal which I've replaced, but still nothing. I have a sneaking suspicion the through-plating on the RTC socket might have gone iffy (I'll be breaking the plastic alignment bands on the socket and soldering the top-side tomorrow) but on the off-chance this fails to resurrect the board.. Does anyone have a 386 or 486 AT-form-factor PC motherboard kicking around? The board I had was one of these: http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/I/INFORMTECH-INTERNATIONAL-INC-486… Basically: - Baby-AT -- fits in a mini-tower case, AT power supply - AMD 386DX-40 CPU - Socket for 387 or Weitek math coprocessor - 8 sockets for 30pin SIMMs -- max 32MB, but I've been running this one on 8MB. I've got a box of 72pin SIMMs too. - I/O on expansion cards, or at least some way of disabling the on-motherboard IDE controller. This thing needs to drive a Seagate ST21R RLL controller and a WD WD1003-WA2 (not at the same time, of course!) - A couple of 16-bit ISA slots (this board has 5, I need at least two) I'm wishing I hadn't thrown out my old Pentium-P100 board... that would have been just about perfect for this :( Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

15 years, 7 months

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OT: DRAM memory controllers within FPGAs

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

You don't say how much memory you're needing but I would hazard a guess that for many hobbyist or classiccmp-type projects that SRAM could be made to work with little effort. Not that SRAM is cheapest per bit, but in terms of results per unit effort it's hard to beat. Of course it depends on what your desired result is... if you really truly want a DRAM controller, then SRAM won't satisfy you. But in terms of least effort to desired result I think SRAM is a clear winner even if you end up paying more per bit. e.g. when in the late 90's I made a device for reading out arbitrarily formatted floppies and hard disks at MHz rates it was completely trivial to make a fast bit-buffer out of a SRAM chip and a couple of TTL counters and shift registers. Old classiccmp post: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2000-July/151774.html Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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Need RL02 Controller for PDP-11/44 Restoration

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 01/26/11 19:00, Ethan Dicks<ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Michael Thompson > <michael.99.thompson at gmail.com> wrote: >> > I am reassembling a PDP-11/44 from parts for the Rhode Island Computer... >> > >> > The RA81s won't spin up, so I suspect that I need to replace the >> > starting capacitors. > I read through the blog - if the motors start spinning as you describe > (I envision you mean for a few seconds; please correct me if this is > wrong)_then_ the drive stops spinning, I doubt it's the capacitors. > If the motors_don't_ start moving when you put the drive online, then > that is one component to examine. Nit pick: The online operation is the "A" and "B" buttons. The "RUN" button is for spinning the drive up. It can be spinning and offline. :-) > RA81s were at one point, exceedingly susceptible to HDA failure. I > don't recall the specific ECO levels, but some version after "E" used > a different glue than its predecessors leading to particulate > contamination leading to catastrophic failure. ISTR looking for "H2" > or "K2" drives after that disaster. Yes. But I think even with the bad glue, the disk do spin up more than a couple of seconds. > RA81 drives have a DB25 inside. You can plug a terminal in and run > on-board diagnostics and monitor operations. You can run with the lid > up or lid down (snaking a ribbon cable out of the drive). The molex > connector next to the data connector is to power a small hand-held LED > terminal (I saw one once, used with a high voltage chassis for > particle physics, but the terminal was the same). Good suggestion. The terminal should be at 300 bps, if I remember right. 8N1. And data leads only is enough. > Try plugging in a working VT220 and letting the drive tell you what it > thinks is going on. You might find that it's starting to spin up then > not liking what it sees and spinning down. > > Oh... just a detail - you mention locked heads - you_did_ pull the > cord to retension the drive belt, right? (for safe transport, the > RA81 has you locking the heads_and_ disengaging the motor from the > HDA by removing belt tension). If you didn't do this step, what I > think may happen is the onboard processor will start to spin the > motor, sense no rotation from the HDA, then spin the motor down and > emit a fault code. Maybe this is what you are seeing? That was a very good suggestion. The belt can be disengaged in two ways, depending on the version of the drive. Either a cord, or else a lever on the inside of the outer wall. It should be pretty obvious when you know what you are looking for, though. With these suggestions, as well as the power control bus to check, the drives should be possible to get running... :-) >> > https://sites.google.com/site/ricmwarehouse/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-1144 > Reading through your blog, I don't think you will have success with > booting 2.11BSD on your 11/44 with a TU81+ unless you have install > media that knows about that tape controller. The 2.9BSD tapes I have > require an "MS" device (older OSes might or might not require an "MT" > device). Back in the day, there were several incompatible tape > controller types, with different boot ROMs, and your install media had > to match your controller and ROMs (or you had to toggle in the > bootstrap). You can install 2.11BSD using vtserver and a virtual tape > drive though. Also, if you do get real 2.11BSD install tapes, you'd > probably want to be looking for a TU80 and, IIRC, an M7454 controller > card. 2.11 will install fine from a TU81. The biggest problem is finding booting roms for the TU81. TU81 is TMSCP, works the same as TK50. Johnny

15 years, 7 months

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CDC/MPI Wren II HH (94205-51) drive manual

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------------Original Message: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:52:20 +0000 From: Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> Subject: CDC/MPI Wren II HH (94205-51) drive manual To: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4D3DA034.9000702 at philpem.me.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi guys, <snip> I'm planning on replacing the "recommended" 75157/75158 "dual differential driver/receiver" pair with a 26LS31/26LS32 quad diff RX/TX pair on the grounds that: * The 26LS parts are cheaper by about a factor of 3 * the 26LS parts seem to be easier to find (higher stock levels at Farnell and Digikey when I last checked). Anyone reckon I'm likely to have any problems with this substitution? ---------------Reply: I wouldn't think so since the WREN II manual in fact specifies 26LS31/26LS32s ;-) mike

15 years, 7 months

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CDC/MPI Wren II HH (94205-51) drive manual

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, I've just bought myself another Big, Heavy Hard Drive... This time, it's a CDC/Magnetic Peripherals 94205-51, 42MB MFM, 5.25in Half Height, (though it looks a lot bigger than 5.25in), with an ST412 style interface. I also snagged a Western Digital WD1003-WA2 MFM controller, and a full set of cables. Whether I'll be able to fit the WD1003 into the 386 PC remains to be seen: if it will fit, it'll be a tight squeeze. As for condition, there are few bad tracks marked on the drive label, but it spins, appears to pass the seek test, and unlocks the actuator successfully (there's a loud CLACK just before the seek test starts). Question: Does anyone have an OEM Manual or similar for this drive? There's a manual for the Wren II ESDI on Bitsavers, but apparently not for this drive. I can work from the ST506 spec if need be, but the original manual would be nice to have. For the pathologically curious: I'm building an ST412 adapter for the DiscFerret (details will, of course, be published "when it's done"). It turns out I've over-engineered the DiscFerret's PSU quite significantly: even with the 20W load the Wren places on the power rails, the PSU doesn't even break a sweat... I'll probably end up adding a 4-way DIP switch to set the "drive select" value, and run it off of the Ferret's DS0. That leaves me with DS1 to use for head-switching, along with a few other I/Os which are on the Shugart floppy interface but not the ST506 Control connector. MFM RDAT/WDAT will be fed to the High Speed I/O connector for obvious reasons :) I'm planning on replacing the "recommended" 75157/75158 "dual differential driver/receiver" pair with a 26LS31/26LS32 quad diff RX/TX pair on the grounds that: * The 26LS parts are cheaper by about a factor of 3 * the 26LS parts seem to be easier to find (higher stock levels at Farnell and Digikey when I last checked). Anyone reckon I'm likely to have any problems with this substitution? Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

15 years, 7 months

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Looking for Schematics for an IMS SIO-2 Card

by trebor77＠execpc.com

I am Looking for Schematics for an IMS SIO-2 Card. I have been working on getting my N* Horizon Running. I added the PROM Option to my N* CPB-A2 but am having trouble with the Monitor Prom. I can't get it to accept Keyboard Input. I have a BYT-8 which I am now using to TEST with in order to bypass any Problems with the Built in Serial Logic on the N* Motherboard. I have the Manuals for the SIO but they don't have the Circuit Diagrams which I want to look at to see the Connections from the Edge Connector to the 8251. I am hoping someone may know where I might obtain them. TIA Bob in Wisconsin

15 years, 7 months

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Continuing adventures with VTServer

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

After another list member kindly patched VTserver.c and recompiled, data would come out on COM2: ok but it still couldn't "hear" the received characters. You won't believe this... the pigtail cable inside the PC, from the motherboard COM2 header to the back-panel DB25, had been installed one position off (by me, of course) =:^O The nonstandard location of TxD and ground on the DB25 should have been my first clue, but I just ass-umed that it was something unique to the PC and not EIA RS-232... I couldn't see any visible damage to the COM2 ribbon cable, but the proof of the pudding was a successful loopback test using a jumper to connect straight to the header pins :) After carefully examining and continuity-checking the pigtail, the inescapable conclusion was that I must have incorrectly plugged it into the header. Sure enough, with proper installation, data comes and goes as ordered. And on the proper pins 2 and 3, also! Recall that, again rather unbelievably, when I first resurrected this old PC from the scrap heap, I found that a mouse had eaten the mouse port cable (not joking) inside the case, but the other ribbon cable pigtail for COM1. Probably I plugged it back in wrong when reinstalling them both. Oh well, live and learn. Now if I could only get TSX-Plus 6.50 to sysgen properly on SIMH, I would have something to VTserve to my PDP-11! -Charles

15 years, 7 months

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SCSI hard drives of large form factors

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> I think some of the Argus 14" drives were SCSI. Oooh, trying to find some overlap here... Ferranti Argus? I'm stretching it though :-) Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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SCSI hard drives of large form factors

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> Here's something I was thinking about the other day. I > *know* for a fact that SCSI interface hard drives existed > with 8" platters. I've never seen one, however. Does anyone > know of any specific model numbers, or have any product > information or pictures of such devices? CDC/Imprimis/Seagate Sabre drives were 8" and available with a variety Of interfaces. SMD, IPI-2, SCSI. J on the end is SMD, K On the end is IPI-2, G on the end is SCSI. The part numbers Are dizzying depending on whether's it's a CDC or Seagate number... 97201-12G is a CDC number, ST81236N is the Seagate number. > Along the same lines, did SCSI interface devices exist with > 14" platters? An option for the venerable Fujitsu Eagle, perhaps? To be nitpicky Eagles are 10.5" platters in a 14" form factor. > I know that Adaptec made a standalone SCSI-SMD bridge board. I > have one, although I've never been able to get it to work. I > got as far as hand-crafting SCSI commands to try to get it to > format the drive, and it would sit there, device active, but > the drive never stepped or seeked off the first cylinder. I have seen Eagles with bridge cards in the back. I don't think Fujitsu made them that way but they were added by US-based vendors. You are most likely to find Sabre and SCSI-SMD bridge drives if you find Late 80's/early 90's Sun installations. If you're lucky you can find Some SCSI-Pertec Formatted bridges and tape drives too. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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ENIAC ....

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Evan writes: > BUT .... wouldn't everyone also agree that, at the very > least, to be a "computer" a machine must be programmable? Personally, I would not agree. In the 1940's "computing" definitely meant solving systems of linear equations (ABC) and artillery tables (ENIAC) and other applications (e.g. Analytical Engine). Note that even today LAPACK (linear equations) is the Standard supercomputer benchmark. In the 2000's "computing" usually means E-mail, Web, and Word Processing, all of which can be done on machines that lack or lock out end-user programming. And compare with 21st century "quantum computing" which is set up on optical benches. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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ENIAC . . . .

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

This is a fantastic, technically oriented book from MIT Press that I heartily recommend to anyone seriously interested in the history of computers: The First Computers--History and Architectures http://www.amazon.com/First-Computers--History-Architectures-History-Comput… An excerpt from it comparing the ENIAC with the ENIAC-on-a-chip is found, along with an image of the ENIAC chip, at the bottom of my web page here: http://diephotos.blogspot.com/

15 years, 7 months

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Need blank 3U panel, PDP-11 corporate cabinet

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I've been looking at a blank space in the front of my PDP-11/23+ for quite a while. Since I have been wrestling with TSX-Plus, and changing unit 0 packs frequently, I have finally got around to rearranging it "correctly" as shown on the cover of Microcomputers and Memories (thanks Pete for the pic). That is, with one RL02 drive on top, a 1U blank panel, and the 11/23+ underneath that. Then a 3U space, the other RL02, and the bottom panel. Now the "hole" is even more obvious. http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… Does anyone (preferably in the US so postage won't be outrageous) have a 3U blank panel I can purchase (or trade something for)? I'm also wondering if there is supposed to be some kind of long narrow cover plates along the top between the RL02 and the side panels? http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… thanks Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Old LCD info

by afra＠aurigae.demon.co.uk

Hi, I'm trying to repair an old Husky rugged handheld, circa 1981 so deffo on topic :) Anyway the machine mostly seems to work apart from the LCD is a little flakey. It can only be read from a cirtain angle and fades after a couple of minutes on. The LCD is an Epson MA-B965B does anyone have, or know where I can get the datasheet for this module ? Cheers, Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.

15 years, 7 months

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Sun and DEC equipment in the in Duesseldorf, Germany

by alexandre.laguejacques＠gmail.com

Hello all, Just sounding the mailing list. Is there anyone in the area of K?ln (Cologne)/D?sseldorf, Germany that would be interested in the following: (1) a dual-processor SPARCstation 20 (maximum RAM, 8 MB VRAM, 2x75 MHz processors); (2) a DEC 3000-300 ("Pelican" Alpha station); (3) a Sun Netra T1 with 768 MB RAM; or (4) two Sun 601 enclosures containing 120 GB non-SE drives? Before I put them on eBay, I wanted to check here. I do need some money for these items (struggling student and all...). Thanks, Alex

15 years, 7 months

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Sol-20 system in Seattle

by shumaker＠att.net

For those interested, there is a really nice looking Sol-20 "with extensive documentation and various software applications" as well as a dual floppy drive posted on CL for Seatle. Looks in very clean condition. Seattle Craigs List item: 2167746702

15 years, 7 months

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Help with DHV11/16 card?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Being stuck indoors by bad weather, I started tinkering with my PDP-11/23+ system :) The 11/23+ chassis came with a sixteen-serial-line (Camintonn DHV11/16) card which is complete with a rack panel of 16 DE-9 serial ports, and fortunately the scrappers had not cut the ribbon cable going to it. Also, somewhere I acquired an RL02 pack with TSX-Plus 5.0, which boots to RT11SJ and even runs TSX+, although I don't have all the devices the original system had. So I would like to set up the system for timesharing using the 16-line card. After perusing the TSX+ manuals I believe I can accomplish a system generation, except for one problem - I don't know the interrupt vector and CSR addresses for the Camintonn DHV11/16. Nothing on Google I could find, and on Bitsavers there is a DEC DHV11 manual but that's an eight-line card... can anyone help with tech info on this 16-line card? thanks Charles (doesn't really need a multi-user system since I'm the only user) :)

15 years, 7 months

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IBM Centennial Film: They Were There - People who changed the way the world works

by eric＠brouhaha.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrhDaAmn5Uw

15 years, 7 months

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FS: Windows 3.0 and MS-DOS 5.0

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

More vintage software, gathering dust... Windows 3.0 on five 1.2MB 5.25" floppy disks. Used once (to load the hard drive on a Zenith 486-33). Appear to be in perfect shape but I no longer have any PC's with five-inch drives. Microsoft MS-DOS 5.0 on five 5.25" floppies. Also only read once. $10 for each set (*includes postage* in USA). Will ship internationally for additional postage. thanks Charles

15 years, 7 months

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FS: another Apple II prototyping board

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Found in the junkbox: another Apple II prototyping board made by "Suntronics", their p/n SUN722. This one has a number of wire wrap sockets tack-soldered (by one pin on each opposite corner only, so they can be easily removed if desired). Mix of gold and tin plated contacts. There is (1) 40-pin, (2) 28-pin, (3) 20-pin, (3) 16-pin, and (5) 14-pin DIP sockets. http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… $10.00 (shipped free in USA). thanks Charles

15 years, 7 months

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HP150 Touchscreen diagnostic

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I guess the HP150 counts as a 'classic computer'... I have an HP150 (origianl model, 9" CRT) on my bench, and amongst other things it's reporting touchscreen problems in the POST. This is quite common with such machines, and nearly always means that one or more of the IR beams was blocked during the test. This is often due to dirt build-up on the faces of the opto-devices. it can be due to failure of the devices themselves. The touchscreen electroncis is mounted on a frame-shaped PCB that fits just behind the front bezel. The interface to the rest of the machine is 1 10 pin header plug. From what I rmemeber (and I do have pinouts and shcematics), there are 3 +12V pins, 3 ground pins, a -12V pin and 3 signals : A clcok input (to touchscreen) that moves the IR beam on to the next position A synv output (from the touchscreen) which indicates that the last IR beam is being sampled (or maybe last + 1) I would ahve to check A data output which indicates if the currently selected beam is open or blocked. These signals are all at odd voltage levels (the touchscreen cirucitry is 4000 series CMOS running off a 10V supply obtained from the +12V rail). HP use transsitors on the CPU PCB to get them to/from TTL levels. they then end up on the pins of an 8042 microcontroller which also handles the keyboard and beeper. Connecting a logic analyser to these signals indeed shows that there are some beams that appear blocked. The obvious thing is to be able ot determine which ones so I know which optodevices to test/inspect. I can think of several ways of doing this : Count the clock pulses on the logic analyser screen :-) Make a circuit -- a handful of logic chips, shfit registers, etc that connects to the touchscreen, generates the clock signal, etc and displys the state of each beam on a separate LED. Probably possible with the contents of my junk box, and anywas as I've said, I like soldering. Ditto, but use a microcontroller. It keeps the chip count down, bnt it's probably more work for me. The command list for the 8042 on the HP150 CPU board (in one of the HP manuals) includes a command to test which IR beams are blocked (this is not the same as reporting the touchscreen corrdinates). Unfotunately, (a) you can't use this if the makhine is scannign the keyboard and (b) the description seems incomplete. It says that this command will return 2 bytes giving the numbers of any blocked berams. Well, with only 16 birs (and 36 beams), it can't be a bit vector. It also says that if both bytes are 0xff, then no beams are blocked, if one is 0xff then only one beam is blocked (specified by the other byte). What happens if more than 2 beams are blocked? More importantly, since to use this command you have to disable interrupts and stop the keyboard scanning, it's not going to be possible to do it from interpretted BASIC. And the programming lanaugages on this old version of MS-DOS are not that pleasant... iI can't find an HP diagnostic that gives detailed information on touchscreen problems, or any reference to one. Any suggestions/comments? -tony

15 years, 7 months

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HP150 Touchscreen diagnostic

by jonas＠otter.se

> > >3) I am not sure my video camera has much sensitivity in the IR. It > > >depends > > on which vidicon is fitted, I think. > > > > Yes, stupid of me I should have known, mea culpa ;-) > > I cna't beelive you've forgotten my taste for older devices :-) > What do you mean, "older"? Vidicons are modern. Iconoscopes and image orthicons are "older". Cranky ol' Jonas

15 years, 7 months

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TZ30 tape drive (faulty?)

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I recently acquired a TZ30 tape drive. It does not want to load any tapes I put in it. I have never used a TZ30 before so I am not sure how it is supposed to be used. Let me explain what happens: The lock lever is over to the left in the unlocked position. I insert the tape in the slot, but nothing prevents it being pushed out again, I have to hold it in place while I move the lock lever across. This does not feel right, but I don't know, is it supposed to stay in place without me having to hold it there? While I am holding the tape in place the green light comes on and does not flash. After moving the lever to the lock position the lights flash a few moments and then the green light flashes to tell me there is a problem with the tape. However the drive mechanism makes no attempt to load the tape (I can see this because I have the cover of the system removed). It strikes me that the drive is faulty, but it could be user error. Can someone tell me if I am doing it right, and if I am, does anyone know of any well-known faults that might cause this? Thanks Rob

15 years, 7 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:03:56 -0500 > From: "Shoppa, Tim" <tshoppa at wmata.com> > Subject: Re: SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?] > To: "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB872450BACFA3EA4 at EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Chuck mentions: <snip> > Without a doubt the stepper motor+band positioner was a huge step forward > in economizing microcomputer-oriented hard drives. > > I figured that chronologically the taut-band floppy drives came first but > now that I think about it, maybe the SA4000 came first and the floppy > application came later? > > Certainly stepper-motor use was first in the floppies. At least, AFAIK :-) > > Tim. The band-capstan-stepper motor actuator usage in disk drive art was probably invented by Warren Dalziel (US Patent # 4,161,004) who tells me he is pretty sure he designed the linear version for the double sided floppy (SA850) first and then the hard drive rotary version (SA4000). I suspect they shipped in that order too but the SA4000 probably wasn't too far behind. The patent filing date is Apr 5, 1977 which, given the way things work, is probably just before the first public showing. Anyone know of any early disk drives with a band-capstan-stepper motor actuator? Tom

15 years, 7 months

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FS: M9302 Unibus terminator card

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

FS cheap: One M9302 (dual-height) Unibus terminator card. Don't need and can't test because I only have a Qbus PDP-11! There isn't much on it that could go wrong though. Make me any reasonable offer... shipping from US zip 65775. thanks Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Can someone patch VTserver?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 02:02:58 -0600, you wrote: >Have you considered using a PS/2 mouse to free up COM1:? I am not sure exactly what one is... but this is a very old (relatively speaking) PC; the only jacks on the back panel besides the parallel printer port are the 9-pin COM1: and 25-pin COM2: ports. >Alternatively, if you're using XP, go to Settings->Control Panel- >>System and look at the Resources for COM1: and COM2:. Uncheck the >"use automatic settings" box and swap the IRQ and port addresses of >COM1: and COM2: > >That might work... > >--Chuck Thanks, but I already thought of that and tried it. Then the mouse didn't work :( and Windows is already enough of a PITA before taking away mouse support. Looks like the binary editor may be the best patch! -Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Can someone patch VTserver?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I'm pulling my hair out... trying to get an old PC with two COM ports to work with VTServer. Setup: WinXP, AMD K6/300 CPU. Serial mouse is plugged into the DE-9 connector and it's COM1. There is a DB-25 connector on COM2. I can use MS-DOS COPY/B to send binary files out the COM2 port, so I know COM2 works. Unfortunately, after examining the C source code of VTserver, it appears that it is hard-coded to use COM1 only. The comments are interesting ;) >void open_port() >{ >#ifdef _MSC_VER > /* The following is sort of like APL. If I have to explain it to you, you don't deserve to know. */ > /* Actually, I copied most of it from the examples, and I don't understand it that well myself */ > > DCB dcb; > struct _COMMTIMEOUTS TO = {MAXDWORD,MAXDWORD,1,2,1000}; /* NOTE -- timeouts are hard wired for 9600 baud or higher */ > > fprintf(stderr,"Opening port %s .... ", port); fflush(stderr); > > portfd = CreateFile("COM1:",GENERIC_READ|GENERIC_WRITE,0,0,OPEN_EXISTING,FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED,0); > if(portfd == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE) > { > fprintf(stderr, "can't open COM1:"); > exit(1); > } Not surprisingly, even when using an initialization line (in the .vtrc setup file) of MODE COM2:19200,n,8,1 which does setup the COM2 port properly, VTserver then outputs to the console: "Opening port COM2:.... can't open COM1:" Aaarrrgh!!! I CANNOT get WinXP and this particular motherboard/BIOS to put the damn mouse on COM2 so I can use COM1. IIRC I encountered this problem years ago when last using VTserver, but that was on a different and even older Win98 PC, and finally did manage to put the mouse on the other port. So the only other fix is to recompile VTserver to use port 2, and I don't even think I have a C compiler let alone any experience using it. Can someone *please* patch VTserver so I can use COM2 instead? thanks for any help! -Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Radio Shack Science Fair manuals

by matt_marn＠optusnet.com.au

Hi, I was wondering if you knew how to get a copy or an original manual for the 28-249 200 in 1 electronic project lab, thanks, matt.

15 years, 7 months

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Northgate omnikey ultra

by equityfi＠comcast.net

I will buy it from you for the $5.00 as I have one and need some of the parts. Thanks, Allen

15 years, 7 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Chuck mentions: > I don't think anyone has mentioned that the SA4000 was remarkable in > that it was a hard disk that used a stepper motor as a positioner. > Up until that time, every hard drive I know of used either some sort > of servo or mechanical adder (e.g. Univac FASTRAND (okay, it's a > drum, but a movable head drum) or Bryant 4000). A hard drive using a > stepper was extremely unusual before the SA4000. Without a doubt the stepper motor+band positioner was a huge step forward in economizing microcomputer-oriented hard drives. I figured that chronologically the taut-band floppy drives came first but now that I think about it, maybe the SA4000 came first and the floppy application came later? Certainly stepper-motor use was first in the floppies. At least, AFAIK :-) Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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Can someone patch VTserver?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:00:01 -0600, you wrote: >From: cctech at vax-11.org > >It looks like you could open the binary up in Emacs, and perform a global >search/replace of COM1 with COM2. > >Clint Good idea, suggested by Ed also, so I just tried it. Although VTserver now says it opened COM2:, and starts transmitting (the usual slow scrolling line feeds appear, I don't have it hooked up to the PDP-11)... But. There is nothing actually coming out of the COM2: port! For hardware test purposes, in the MSDOS window "COPY/B <somefile> COM2:" *does* work correctly (I can see with a scope the serial data coming out on the COM2 TxD pin). More ideas please? thanks -Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update ?

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

Can someone help me out with the above? All the copies I've been able to find on the net have an md5sum consistent with a known-bad image. Thanks in advance. Steve --

15 years, 7 months

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Running TSX-Plus under SIMH?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Just wondering if anyone has tried to run TSX-Plus under SIMH? Thanks to another list member, I was able to obtain a copy of the version 6.50 distribution (on "simulated floppy"). It took me all afternoon to re-learn how to use EDIT (which *really* makes you appreciate modern full-screen editors!) and modify TSGEN.MAC. I set it up to match the existing settings of my DLV11/16D card (whichappears as two DLV11's). TSGEN assembles without errors. There are some linker errors though, but the manual says at least some of them are to be expected. I copied the new TSX files and RT11SJ 4.0 over to the simulated RL02 and boot from it. RT-11 boots normally. But when attempting to execute TSX.SAV, SIMH gives an error and halts... I can't see anything wrong with the system generation but it's a lot of work to create a pack with VTServer for the new hardware if it's got a bug. I'm wondering if SIMH can't handle the time-sharing stuff or lack of a simulated DHV11 card. Any thoughts? thanks Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Emailing: SCSI to IDE.htm

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

SCSI to IDE Tom Gardner thomas.gardner <mailto:cctalk%40classiccmp.org?Subject=Re%3A%20SCSI%20to%20IDE&In-Reply-To= %3C5450F2940A10417780E426EC57A9C5E1%40tegp4%3E> at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 17:35:52 CST 2010 * Previous message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294657.html> * Next message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294665.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/date.html#294658> [ thread ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/thread.html#294658> [ <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/subject.html#294658> subject ] [ author ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/author.html#294658> _____ I haven't been following this thread too closely so I may have missed something, but it seems to me that the proposed solutions are overly complex. One simple solution that comes to mind is to define a set of vendor unique SCSI commands, one for each of the registers in the IDE command stack and then do all the emulation in the device driver on the host side. The interface card is just then a simple state machine; really simple if u make it a non arbitrating protocol implementation and use PIO for data transfers (SCSI-1 lives :-). Tom _____ * Previous message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294657.html> * Next message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294665.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/date.html#294658> [ thread ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/thread.html#294658> [ <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/subject.html#294658> subject ] [ author ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/author.html#294658> _____ More information <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> about the cctalk mailing list _____ -----REPLY----- I agree and have started a new thread for a SCSI to IDE converter board over on Vintage-Computer.com forums. If you or anyone is interested in the project stop on by and help out. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?22906-SCSI-1-to-from- IDE-drive-converter The project is a Z80 CPU, NVSRAM, EEPROM, UART, 8255 PPI IDE, and Z53C80 SCSI-1 controller. The UART is for a serial port to program the converter board and store parameters in the NVSRAM and allows for ROM reprogramming in circuit. It is on a dual layer Eurocard and uses 14 ICs plus connectors, passives, etc. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

15 years, 7 months

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[rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth (fwd)

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I figured that someone here who's not on the Sunhelp list might appreciate this. David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:21:26 -0500 From: Patrick Giagnocavo <patrick at zill.net> Reply-To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> Subject: [rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth Some of you here know that I recycle old PC motherboards, etc. though whenever possible I try to divert anything valuable/historical out of the melt-it-down pile. I have many pounds, well over 100lbs., of DEC PDP "flip chip" modules. I have to charge for them, but would like to sell all of them, all at once, to 1 person if possible, at a per-lb price ($8 per lb). Given that these flip chip modules are not very heavy this works out to well under $2 each, I think. Some are in original plastic shrink wrap, but most are not, and have been exposed to moisture but are otherwise complete; some have had the resistors or capacitors on them "weep" which means they would have to be replaced by someone competent with a soldering iron. A random listing of the few that I pulled out: A123 A206 A207 G728 K012 K026 K028 K123 K124 K134 K161 K202 K210 K303 K683 M113 M1502 M155 M207 M230 M502 M652 M7264 M783 M7941 M920 M974 There are many more. Are there any PDP collectors on this list - I know there used to be but perhaps this stuff is just too old these days. Cordially Patrick Giagnocavo patrick at zill.net _______________________________________________ rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

15 years, 7 months

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Long term publicly accessible backups [Was: Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update]

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 1/18/11 6:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > If you have people willing to make that kind of commitment, then a > few websites, plus distribution of CDs, DVDs, and whatever comes > nextwould accomplish the same thing, and would survive the total loss > of any one collection. Think Don Maslin (R.I.P.) Yeah. Using Usenet as an archiving mechanism is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a very long time. The real solution to this problem is a few people with grownup networks (i.e., people with static IP addresses who aren't afraid to actually run some computers, or someone with a machine in colo space) to set up rsync run from a cron job. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

15 years, 7 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Chuck writes: On 18 Jan 2011 at 14:18, Shoppa, Tim wrote: >> Isn't it wonderful the way the pendulum swings? First parallel >> cylinder select (e.g. SMD and other bus and tag type address >> interfaces), then step in/out cylinder select (e.g. >> SA4000/SA1000/ST-506) and serial cylinder select (e.g. ESDI), then >> parallel cylinder select (e.g. IDE/ATA/SCSI), then serial cylinder >> select (e.g. SATA). > It would seem to be more a matter of "smarts on the disk drive" than > anything. IDE/SCSI and SATA all have controllers on the drive and so > have no dedicated signal lines for positioning. In particular > IDE/SATA LBA and SCSI don't require any knowledge of the drive > geometry, other than the sector size and the total number of sectors. > > with ST506/412 and ESDI, the "smarts" were still external to the > drive. There's a difference between what the interface doesn't require a drive To do, and what the most common drive implementations actually do. (I do agree that IDE LBA and SCSI, allowing a disk to be addressed as a "big bunch of blocks", are substantially more sophisticated than purely Physical interfaces.) You might be surprised at how smart many drives were even though they were Using the "not so smart" ST1000, ST-506 or floppy interfaces. e.g. the cabling may only have "Step in" and "Step out" but on the drive the drive itself is counting which cylinder its in to apply appropriate precompensation. E.g. LSI Shugart floppy drives. Any ST-506 non-stepper-motor drive knew what cylinder it was on thanks To internal logic. The SA1000 explicitly defined "buffered step mode" whereby the step Commands on the interface could come in way faster than the physical stepper Could move, and a counter on the drive played out the steps later. So on The very first implementation, the drive was already smarter than the interface Would imply. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:13:08 -0600 > From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?] > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4D35AE04.7070905 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > Tom Gardner wrote: > > I believe it was the first HDD of any sort to use a floppy disk type of > > interface. It was followed by the SA1000 interface, which in turn > > became the ubiquitous industry standard ST506 interface. Since it was > > first, it is not surprising that it had problems, > > many of which it inherited from the Shugart floppy interfaces > > it was trying to resemble so as to reduce design in times. > > Was it really done that way because it was supposed to look just like a > big floppy at the interface level? That is my understanding from the folks at Shugart who did it. >Is that actually documented somewhere? Possibly, how important is it to find it on paper? It was explicitly stated as an objective of the next generation, SA1000, "Command signals for the SA1000 use the same pin configuration as its floppy counterpart. Data signals are handled through a different data separator because of the higher transfer rates" ED 9/13/1979 > What would be needed to add a parallel address interface? <snip> Probably could make it look like an SMD interface with a microcontroller. Tom

15 years, 7 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Jules asks: > What would be needed to add a parallel address interface? I believe that could be called the WD1003 :-) In terms of cabling economy parallel cylinder select has some big disadvantages. Not that step-in-step-out cylinder select is awful efficient after you get to having multiple drive systems either (thus ESDI which used similar cabling but much more efficiently). Isn't it wonderful the way the pendulum swings? First parallel cylinder select (e.g. SMD and other bus and tag type address interfaces), then step in/out cylinder select (e.g. SA4000/SA1000/ST-506) and serial cylinder select (e.g. ESDI), then parallel cylinder select (e.g. IDE/ATA/SCSI), then serial cylinder select (e.g. SATA). Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:21:34 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Disc drive READY output -- any standards? > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <m1Pe9or-000J43C at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > For pure bad deisgn, nothing beats the Shugart SA4000 hard disk. > > > > I have one of those. It has all the warts of an early design. > > Except it wasn't an early design. OK, it was an early-ish wincheaster, > but stepper motor controllers are much the same whatever you sue them > for. The problems were known about and could have been avoided. > > -tony I believe it was the first HDD of any sort to use a floppy disk type of interface. It was followed by the SA1000 interface, which in turn became the ubiquitous industry standard ST506 interface. Since it was first, it is not surprising that it had problems, many of which it inherited from the Shugart floppy interfaces it was trying to resemble so as to reduce design in times. Tom

15 years, 7 months

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Long term publicly accessible backups [Was: Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update]

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:53 AM 1/18/2011, Shoppa, Tim wrote: >Now posting it to a binary warez newsgroup, I don't see much harm in that. Worst case, somebody might complain that what you're posting is not illegal or a copyright violation and therefore you shouldn't do it. Thank you for starting my day with a good belly-laugh. - John

15 years, 7 months

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Long term publicly accessible backups [Was: Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Clint writes: > For a while now I have been pondering Usenet as a long term, offsite, > distributed backup facility. Most of the premium servers are over two > years of archive, with pretty decent reliability. Spot checks of > files posted over two years ago still indicate 100% article availability. > Basically, I propose we select a low-traffic group which is available on > most premium servers, and start posting software/documentation to it in a > standard rar/par2 format. And somewhat standardized naming conventions. > If a file was posted two or three times over the span of a month, then > reposted every year we can be almost assured the files would be available > to enthusiasts for many years to come. Seems to me, not that different than Cantor and Siegel's Usenet Spam. As in, it's technically possible to do something, so it's OK to do it. Misusing Usenet, not a good idea. Now posting it to a binary warez newsgroup, I don't see much harm in that. Worst case, somebody might complain that what you're posting is not illegal or a copyright violation and therefore you shouldn't do it. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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Fwd: [rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth

by paul_koning＠Dell.com

Figured this might be of interest... paul Begin forwarded message: > Date: January 17, 2011 9:23:22 PM EST > To: pkoning at equallogic.com > Subject: Fwd: [rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth > > Forwarded in case you know anyone who collects real PDP iron out there... > > john > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> Date: 17 January 2011 20:21:26 EST >> To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> >> Subject: [rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth >> Reply-To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> >> >> Some of you here know that I recycle old PC motherboards, etc. though >> whenever possible I try to divert anything valuable/historical out of >> the melt-it-down pile. >> >> I have many pounds, well over 100lbs., of DEC PDP "flip chip" modules. >> >> I have to charge for them, but would like to sell all of them, all at >> once, to 1 person if possible, at a per-lb price ($8 per lb). Given >> that these flip chip modules are not very heavy this works out to well >> under $2 each, I think. >> >> Some are in original plastic shrink wrap, but most are not, and have >> been exposed to moisture but are otherwise complete; some have had the >> resistors or capacitors on them "weep" which means they would have to be >> replaced by someone competent with a soldering iron. >> >> A random listing of the few that I pulled out: >> >> A123 >> A206 >> A207 >> G728 >> K012 >> K026 >> K028 >> K123 >> K124 >> K134 >> K161 >> K202 >> K210 >> K303 >> K683 >> M113 >> M1502 >> M155 >> M207 >> M230 >> M502 >> M652 >> M7264 >> M783 >> M7941 >> M920 >> M974 >> >> There are many more. >> >> Are there any PDP collectors on this list - I know there used to be but >> perhaps this stuff is just too old these days. >> >> Cordially >> >> Patrick Giagnocavo >> patrick at zill.net >> _______________________________________________ >> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue >

15 years, 7 months

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HP 8018A heath sink getting hot

by hp-fix＠xs4all.nl

I acquired a HP 8018A serial data generator, a very nice piece of equipment. But after a little time the power supply heath sink is getting hot about 70 degrees Celsius (158F). I'm not sure if that is normal, anyone who can help me with this ? -Rik

15 years, 7 months

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Looking for: Sun 3/150 or 4/150

by derschjo＠mail.msu.edu

Title says it all; I'm basically looking for a VME-based Sun workstation with 5 or 6 slots -- something that's a nice middle ground between the cramped 3-slot machines and the huge 12 and 16-slot ones. It doesn't have to be complete or running, but a working power supply would be helpful... I'm trying to find a suitable host for my Symbolics UX400 (a VME-based lisp coprocessor for old Sun machines), and the Sun 3/140 I have doesn't seem to be able to keep the UX400 cool enough (it crashes quite frequently). Anyone (preferably local to Seattle) have something that fits the bill going spare? I can trade a bunch of Sun3 hardware :). - Josh

15 years, 7 months

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Still looking for LaserJet lower cassette

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I'm still trying to locate the "Optional Lower Cassette" for my HP LaserJet IIp+ (that holds 250 sheets of paper and fits underneath the printer (instead of feeding them 20-30 at a time through the front door). Anyone have a "parts" IIp from which I can buy the cassette & paper tray? thanks Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Apple A/UX install

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

Anyone on the list have experience installing A/UX on a 68k Mac? I'm running into some very odd issue trying to bring up my Centris 610. The Centris shipped with a 68LC040 processor and I've upgraded to a "full" RC68040 CPU, since that's a requirement for A/UX. The CD-ROM drive is one of the units known to be compatible with A/UX. The FAQ claims that the installer understands third-party hard disks (unlike the MacOS installer) so I'm trying to use (variously) an older IBM Deskstar 850MB and/or Fujitsu 500MB SCSI drive for the install target. Here's the odd part: With the original Apple-branded OEM Quantum drive (which I do not want to overwrite) on the SCSI bus the installer recognizes the CD-ROM and is willing to begin the process. However, with any of the third-party hard drives in the system it is unable to recognize _anything_ on the SCSI bus - doesn't see the hard disk or the CD-ROM. I've checked and double-checked the jumpering on the hard disk and it's not conflicting with the CD-ROM. Both the IBM and Fujitsu are fairly run-of-the-mill 50-pin SCSI units. I've never had issues in the past with non-Apple drives hanging the bus or preventing access to other devices, so this one's really a head-scratcher. Any ideas what might be throwing the SCSI subsystem for a loop? Steve --

15 years, 7 months

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Disc drive READY output -- any standards?

by CCTECH＠beyondthepale.ie

> >> seems that instead of requiring a particular time between step pulses, >> these drives allow the controller to step as fast as it likes and they > >What happens with one of these drives is you slow the steppign rate (at >the cotnroller) right down, say to 20ms steps? Does it still sometimes >kil the index pulse? > I tested at the slowest stepping rate available on an unmodified BBC model B (which I think is 24ms) and it still failed occasionally. I suspect that it can fail no matter how slow the stepping rate is. > >Is this behavious properly documented anywhere? I guess that the days of >getting OEM and service manuals for such drives are long gone :-( > Pete Turnbull tells me that the TEAC data sheet for the FD-235HF series mentions it. He also has a write-up on the issue here: http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/BBC/index_and_READY.html Regards, Peter Coghlan.

15 years, 7 months

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preparing an order for more S-100 boards

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi! I am preparing to order some additional S-100 board PCBs. At the moment, the most requested boards on the waiting list are below S-100 buffered prototyping board (12 waiting) S-100 4MB SRAM (11 waiting) S-100 EPROM (9 waiting) There needs about 20-25 firm builders on the waiting list to make a PCB manufacturing order feasible. I cannot afford a lot of leftover PCBs so it is important that most of these boards have a home before I will place an order. If you would like to get some S-100 PCBs based on the projects we have done already please contact me at LYNCHAJ at YAHOO.COM <mailto:LYNCHAJ at YAHOO.COM?subject=S-100> and I will add you to the waiting list. Please do not sign up if you are uncertain or unwilling to follow through with getting a PCB. Your word of honor is sufficient to me that you will follow through for PCBs on the waiting list. I still have a small number of S-100 parallel ASCII keyboard boards and S-100 PIC/RTC boards. In particular the S-100 PIC/RTC boards will be very important for the upcoming S-100 8086 CPU board John and I are working on. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch PS a complete list of completed S-100 boards below. If you are interested in any of these boards please let me know however the number of builders on the waiting list probably means another board order is some time away. Regular Prototyping board Buffered Prototyping board 8 Slot Backplane IDE Parallel ASCII Keyboard converter 4MB SRAM System Monitor Board Bus Extender EPROM IO PIC/RTC Z80 CPU these are in work but not complete yet: Console IO ZFDC 68K CPU 8086 CPU

15 years, 7 months

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FS: Apple II prototyping board

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

FS: one unused "Suntronics" wire-wrap prototyping board for Apple II, complete with edge connector. No longer have the IIe ;) http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… $10, includes postage in US. thanks -Charles

15 years, 7 months

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HP-UX .WAD file format?

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

Anyone here know anything about the .WAD file format in the context of HP-UX 9.0x, or more specifically in the context of an HP 16505A which is logic analyzer application running on top of HP-UX 9.0x on an HP 712/60? I have a set of MS-DOS FAT12 floppy disk images which each contain an UPDATE.WAD and an INFO.WAD file pair. I believe these must be compressed file archives. From looking at hex dumps of the files there are no obvious plain text strings. I would like to be able to view the archive contents and extract whatever files they might contain. Sample hex dumps below. These sample file pairs start with a common 15-byte file header: UPDATE.WAD (file size 320-bytes) 0000:0000 1f9d 9030 6e04 1c08-a320 8c18 060b ca80 ...0n...? ....?. 0000:0010 4123 e08d 1a0c 0fde-40d8 30c6 c484 3016 A#?....?(a)?0??.0. 0000:0020 6284 61a3 c68d 1920-1bda c038 03e2 c684 b.a??.. .??8.??. 0000:0030 75e6 c879 3107 8e9c-3763 d694 a133 e745 u??y1...7c?.?3?E 0000:0040 1937 765e 9849 c3a6-cc99 9775 e0cc 0130 .7v^.I???..u??.0 0000:0050 50a0 c084 0813 ce88-78e3 e149 a524 4f76 P??...?.x??I?$Ov 0000:0060 fc18 9223 4619 1a9f-c248 b9b2 e5cb 9833 ?..#F...?H????.3 0000:0070 6bde b443 d428 4183-490d 366c d8d4 a4d6 k??C?(A.I.6l???? INFO.WAD (file size 12043 bytes) 0000:0000 1f9d 9030 6e04 1c08-a320 8c18 060b ca40 ...0n...? ....?@ 0000:0010 18f0 8640 1a07 6f20-8418 4362 c283 170b .?. at ..o ..Cb?... 0000:0020 daa8 7163 8647 8836-6624 9401 31a3 8d18 ??qc.G.6f$..1?.. 0000:0030 366c 2081 82b2 068c-1a5f c690 f912 e30b 6l ..?..._?.?.?. 0000:0040 4417 65e4 c801 3022-c40b 3169 dcbc 5833 D.e??.0"?.1i??X3 0000:0050 078d 8211 0a8e 8250-0a62 65cb 9731 67c6 .......P.be?.1g? 0000:0060 8008 22e8 1c3a 61d8-b001 9153 ce1b 3920 .."?.:a??..S?.9 0000:0070 e68c 9193 060e 9da3-4947 a85d cbb6 ad5a ?......?IG?]???Z

15 years, 7 months

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Teletype Tales Part 3

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

? There are no Teletypes that use Baudot code. They use a US variant of ? the ITA2 five-level code. ? Baudot code was only used until about 1901. Murray code was used until ? the 1930s. Everything after that used ITA2. That's a little like saying nobody actually uses ASCII since 1968, we're all really Using ANSI_X3.4-1968 or later. Technically true but not common usage. Everyone in the past half century has called a Model 28 TTY a Baudot Teletype when They had to distinguish it from any other type. (Baudot is still the default for Several applications so you don't even have to say it's Baudot.) I suppose classiccmp naturally attracts folks who care about such things (witness The thread I started over a few years ago when I noted that bitsavers had surpassed 100 GBytes and everyone informed me that no, a Gbyte was 1073741824 bytes so I was wrong.) Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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When was the MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 Introduced?

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have found two conflicting sources for when this machine was introduced. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroVAX) it was April 1994. The source of this information appears to be this article: http://www.cbronline.com/archive/?SearchTerms=MicroVAX+3100+95 However, the following HP article http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdf on p60 (bottom right) suggests it is September 1992. Both sources would appear to be pretty reliable, but they can't both be right. Does anyone have any suggestion how I might determine which is the more accurate? Regards Rob

15 years, 7 months

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Disc drive READY output -- any standards?

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, Is there a defined standard as to when the READY output on a Shugart-type disc drive should go active? I'm (slowly!) working through the rebuild of one of the Amstrad drives (an EME231 I know to have working mechanical components, potentially good heads, and a fried control board), and I'm stuck on deciding how to deal with the READY output. My initial thought was to hold it inactive until a few INDEX pulses have passed, and the motor speed was within 5% of 'ideal' speed. The plan was to use a 32kHz oscillator and a 4040 counter to get a several-Hz signal, then rig up some logic to check that the disc speed was OK, and after a few valid index cycles enable the drive. Then I started wondering... am I over-engineering this? Would waiting for a couple of full disc rotations be enough to reliably generate a READY signal? Irony is that the read-amp will probably be the easiest part of the whole system... I've got a Motorola appnote which basically says "if you're using a data rate of X and a rotation speed of Y, these parameters will work" -- X and Y being the two parameters the Amstrad drive uses... That just leaves the write amp and erase logic to design (and maybe a 'write lockout' jumper). Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

15 years, 7 months

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Character set pedanticness (was Re: Teletype)

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Eric wrote: >>> There are no Teletypes that use Baudot code. They use a US variant of >>> the ITA2 five-level code. >>> Baudot code was only used until about 1901. Murray code was used until >>> the 1930s. Everything after that used ITA2. Tim wrote: >> That's a little like saying nobody actually uses ASCII since 1968, we're all really >> Using ANSI_X3.4-1968 or later. Technically true but not common usage. Eric wrote: > No, it's not much like that at all. Baudot code used significantly > different character encodings than ITA2, such that a Baudot device and > an ITA2 device will not interoperate in any meaningful fashion. > ASCII-63, ASCII-67, ASCII-68, and ANSI X3.4 have only minor variations > and will generally interoperate reasonably well. I'm not disagreeing that the academically correct term is ITA #2. (Interestingly most web page hits today call it "ITA 2" or "ITA2" but the 70's and earlier books call it "ITA #2" when they are being pedantic.) I'm just saying that in its Heyday, if you had to distinguish a 5-level TTY from a 7-level TTY, the working terms were Baudot and ASCII. Although technically incorrect. Sort of like when I know the people who used and maintained what they called a 11/74, and then I see folks here telling me that no, it's really A 11/70MP :-). Yeah, in a certain aspect that may be what the paperwork called it. But really everybody called it the 11/74. When I'm told that the academically correct word for something, is different than what everyone actually called it at the time, and I see Wikipedia etc. going for academically correct rather than "actual working term", it sometimes feels like history that I lived is being redefined underneath me by some sort of pedantic streak. Another recent example of a different character set being redefined underneath Me: On Wikipedia, the morse code for -...- is defined as "double dash" with a Possible keyboard equivalent of "equals sign", something I never heard till recently. I called it "BT" with a bar Over top for most of half a century now. I don't doubt that some CCITT standard Called it double dash in the past, just that me and the guys I know who use Morse every day, never called it that. This isn't new to me. I remember getting involved in altmode vs escape key arguments In the distant past. I always called it altmode, what right does anyone else Have to call it escape? :-))))). Big smileys, because I discovered that three Different ASCII codes (0174, 0175 and 033) were being used and I didn't know until Much much later. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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Disc drive READY output -- any standards?

by CCTECH＠beyondthepale.ie

> >My initial thought was to hold it inactive until a few INDEX pulses have >passed, and the motor speed was within 5% of 'ideal' speed. The plan was >to use a 32kHz oscillator and a 4040 counter to get a several-Hz signal, >then rig up some logic to check that the disc speed was OK, and after a >few valid index cycles enable the drive. > The BBC Micro internally generates the ready signal for the 8271 controller >from index, drive select and the 8MHz clock using a 74LS393, 4020 and 4013. I figured out how the circuit works once and my head still hurts. As far as I remember, it works like your description above and if an index pulse is a few percent later than expected, it deasserts ready. This was designed for 5.25in floppies and worked fine with early 3.5in drives. However a problem arose with more recent 3.5in drives. It seems that instead of requiring a particular time between step pulses, these drives allow the controller to step as fast as it likes and they signal the controller that the heads have not yet reached the required location by suppressing index until they do. The circuitry in the BBC notices the lack of index and drops the ready signal to the 8271 resulting in a "drive not ready" error when stepping by more than a couple of tracks (er, I mean cylinders) when using one of these drives. It seems the lessons are firstly that the designers of the BBC micro did not reckon they could rely on getting a good ready signal from the drive and secondly, no matter how you try to be clever, something will later come along to mess up your cunning plan. Regards, Peter Coghlan.

15 years, 7 months

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Flakey Multia

by mark.kahrs＠gmail.com

Actually, the Rayovac 840 is rated at 4.5v 800 mAh, so putting in 3*AAA is a reasonable (and "cost effective") thing to do. But the footprint is a tad larger. There's room... The NetBSD pages specifically mention a FCT623 as the cause of problems but I didn't want to get into that mess unless I had to... A Linux FAQ claimed that changing the video or serial cables could also cause problems.

15 years, 7 months

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Teletype Tales Part 3

by evan＠snarc.net

> The big minor thing is the back panel to the stand. It's missing Bill, we have several *SR-33 "parts" machines; I'll mail you a back panel for the stand. Send me your address in a private message.

15 years, 7 months

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Character set pedanticness (was Re: Teletype)

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Brent wrote: > Some minor changes were made to the Murray encodings and it became the > ITA #2, but referring to it as Baudot code continued for general > reference. In other words (like so many other things), both terms would > seem reasonable or 'correct' depending on the perspective one is coming > from. I will note that from an academic/historic standpoint that MacKenzie's _Coded Character Sets: History and Development_ calls it CCITT #2 and I don't think he uses the word Baudot at all. But I also feel that MacKenzie's book is written almost entirely from a standards-committee mindset. There's occasional mention of "real world usage after the character set was standardized" but it's brief. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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Teletype Tales Part 3

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> I remember my first computer experiences were in terminal rooms full of > teletypes. You realised just how noisy they were when the machine (a > DECSYSTEM-20) went down and all the terminals stopped at once. I would love > to get hold of an ASR33 but they seem pretty rare these days. Don't forget THE SMELL of a room of working model 33's. I'm not sure exactly what the smell was - probably a mix of ozone from the motors, warm oil on the mechanical parts, and some of the smell of oiled paper tape - but that was part of the experience too :-) Oiled paper tape could actually go rancid under some conditions (that I'm unclear about today!). I wonder if that's one of the smells I remember. In particular the smell from the hoppers that Caught the holes punched from the tape as being not the typical Teletype smell but something stronger and more offensive. The hoppers Were not necessarily emptied daily :-) Tim.

15 years, 7 months

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Video's of inside of Compuserve?

by CCTECH＠beyondthepale.ie

> >> The datacenter was always at 62 degree's, after working 4-5 hours in >> there, your knuckles started to stiffen up and you'd feel the cold from >> the floor come up into your shins... ah.... good times, good times :-) I >> loved the quietness, all you heard was the sounds of fans whirling away, >> it was a deafening kind of quiet background noise, I miss that. > > It really is a good feeling. Only true geeks seem to appreciate it, >though. > My last boss, who was from the sales end of the organisation occasionally had to help me move stuff in our data centre. He didn't mind the heavy lifting but he really hated being in the place. It didn't bother me at all, especially if the office was hot and sticky. What I miss is from 20 years ago, in a different place, the 400Hz drone of power supplies in equipment connected to a motor-generator set. Never mind the video - does anyone have a sound recording of that? Regards, Peter Coghlan.

15 years, 7 months

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Computer History Museum, et.al.

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

Technology news of two days ago spoke of the Computer History Museum(a past visitor) in Mountainview, CA(Silicon Valley) having a 2000 year timeline and display. I hadn't realized computers have been around for 2000 years! Nevertheless, computer/electronic newsletters such as this should relish in how people/orgaization(s)/institution(s) are attempting to preserve computings past for all, technophiles and technophobes. Maybe this will give encouragement to others who are working diligently, albeit on a smaller scale, on attempts to preserve one little aspect of computing, for example the Computer Museum of Nova Scotia - the Kenbek machine. Compute on! Murray--

15 years, 7 months

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IBM 1401 Data Center

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

Short on space, power, and cooling? Not a problem with this IBM 1401 Data Center: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190490102075 (I have no connection with this seller or listing)

15 years, 7 months

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IBM 1401 Data Center model on eBay

by robgarn＠mac.com

Regarding the charming wood/metal scale model of a "1401 Data Center" on eBay, in addition to the 3 1401 Central Processing Units, many of the models are actually for an IBM 7070: main frame cabinets, console (7150), and card reader (7500). As a 1401 system, two of the 1401 CPUs are missing their mainspring! ;-) The IBM 1402, in addition to reading and punching cards, also delivers AC and DC power to the 1401 CPU, 1403 printer, and 729 tape string. Technically, the model system is missing two 1402s. Any large 1401 system would also likely have 1406 extended memory units (12,000 characters). I suspect many 7070s also had RAMAC/disk storage units (7300), as did some 1401 systems (1405, 20 MB). For info and pictures about our two operational tape-based 1401 systems at the Computer History Museum(CHM), restored by a grand team of retired IBM CE's, checkout: http://ibm-1401.info/ - Robert p.s. The CHM just opened to the public its new marvelous Revolution exhibit! p.p.s. For mounting SMS logic boards, the 7000-series main frame cabinets used large "Rolygon" sliding gates, while the 1401 used smaller pivoting gate "Cube" packaging. On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:05:08 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Subject: Re: IBM 1401 Data Center > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <35e182fb8e08dd69eadb310d14d7a288 at cs.ubc.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On 2011 Jan 12, at 7:35 PM, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: > >> Okay, somebody needs to pick that up, either Al for the CHM or Sellam >> or Evan.... put that on display, that is just too damned cool !!! >> > There have been links for sales of sets like this mentioned on the list > previously but I think they were folded cardboard, not the detailed > wood and metal of this set. > > The ebay page linked to this: > http://ibmcollectables.com/360holocaust.html > Great story, Bob. (.. now we know who to blame) > > And speaking therein of 360 front panels: > ebay 150541712482 > IBM 360/50 front panel goes for $5600. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:54:12 -0600 > From: Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: IBM 1401 Data Center > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <AANLkTikwnRof5-KaoJKDER6+NKnC-ugV84OE703Ny+1_ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> On 1/12/11 7:10 PM, Glen Slick wrote: >>> >>> Short on space, power, and cooling? ?Not a problem with this IBM 1401 >>> Data Center: >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190490102075 >>> >>> (I have no connection with this seller or listing) > > Awesome - I saw a set like this many years ago (let's say mid-90s) in > the window of an "antiques" (junk) store in St. Charles, IL. I think > they wanted around $250 for it, and those were the days I was scraping > together $5 for meals, so it wasn't going to happen for me. I always > assumed it was a salesman's kit, for helping to lay our datacenters > (maybe it came with a big sheet of scaled grid paper to represent > floor tiles?) > > Well, I'll be bidding... > > -j > ------------------------------

15 years, 7 months

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Xerox 860 IPS system on eBay

by derschjo＠mail.msu.edu

Not my auction, but looks pretty danged neat. Price isn't too bad. eBay Item 220721080577. Looks cool, wish I lived a little closer :). - Josh

15 years, 7 months

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On the Beeb, EDSAC to be rebuilt

by cclist＠sydex.com

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12181153 I don't know how real it is yet, but it's a start. --Chuck

15 years, 7 months

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Flakey Multia

by mark.kahrs＠gmail.com

So, I thought it would nice to use a Multia as a wireless machine, after all, it does have PCMCIA ports... My first challenge was that it wouldn't boot. It would startup and get to the cursor and then hang. A new battery was suggested. Rather than use the Rayovac 840, I elected to get a 3 AAA cell holder from Digikey. I replaced it and watched. Sure enough, it started to boot and then put characters on the screen and hung. I powered it off and on and it got further and then hung. Now it won't get that far at all and complains (via 14 LED flashes) that the DRAM is bad. I removed 2 and that didn't work so swapped them and that didn't work. It would make a nice doorstop, but otherwise what are the suggestions?

15 years, 7 months

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Single Head HDDs

by bpettitx＠comcast.net

Couldn't find original sender: > Except for a few very odd ones (e.g. hard drives which record analagoue > singals such as analogue video [1]) every hard disk I've worked on has > used both sides of all platters for something. Maybe not user data > storage (for excample, it may contain servo information only), but there > will be a head on it. Because of the enormous pressure to reduce cost, single headed drives are very common. And have been for as long as I've been in the HDD industry. For example, current technology is 667 or 750 GB per platter with 1TB/platter due in next 12 months. Yet there is a demand for 250, 300 or 500 GB drives for ultra low cost drives. Especially in the consumer electronics market - for example, DVRs and security systems. Taking out the cost of one head can save $2.50 to $5.00 of manufacturing cost. That is a big chunk of the $25 manufacturing cost typical of the very low end drives. Servo data has been embedded in the data surface for many many years. Most current drives generate their own servo information. Current drives even have a different tpi for the servo versus the data track, even though they are on the same surface. Billy Pettit

15 years, 7 months

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Because it's there: 5 operating systems running on a IIfx (at the same time)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 5:24 -0600 1/13/11, Josh wrote: >Could I run these all at the same time in my trusty Macintosh IIfx? > >The answer: Yes. (warning, 1600x1200 image): >http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/5OS.png > That is so far beyond cool cool can't even see it any more! I'm totally awe-struck! What a machine! What an idea! How could you *possibly* have anything better to do than that? -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

15 years, 7 months

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Video's of inside of Compuserve?

by CCTECH＠beyondthepale.ie

> >Anyway, some doofus managed to string fiber through the cabinet (one >of the 9309 style cabinets, common with older big AS/400s and >RS/6000s). For some reason, the decommissioned machine had to be >removed during the day, but we were forbidden to touch the FDDI >outside a 3 AM maintenance window. Several blades later... > >I'll tell you - IBM uses good steel. > Where did the dust end up? On one memorable occasion, when we requested cable access between two of our adjacent cabs, the data centre tech (without telling anyone) took an angle grinder to the cab walls and showered our running equipment with fine steel dust. Any mystery failures after that were blamed on dust getting sucked in by fans and deposited on pcbs. Regards, Peter Coghlan.

15 years, 7 months

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Disc drive READY output -- any standards

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 01:34:00 +0000 > > From: classiccmp at philpem.me.uk > > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > Subject: Disc drive READY output -- any standards? > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Is there a defined standard as to when the READY output on a > > Shugart-type disc drive should go active? <snip> > > Thanks, > > Phil. > > classiccmp at philpem.me.uk > > http://www.philpem.me.uk/ Having worked on a number of those HDDs and FDDs my recollection is the "standard" for asserting READY was, at a minimum, that a disk was loaded and the drive was "at speed." In some higher end HDDs I seem to recall that it was not asserted until the heads were at TRACK 00 but I could be wrong. Speed tolerance was pretty poor with ac motors and I think we just clocked a retrigerable singleshot with index and required two (or more) indexes faster than the timeout before we then asserted READY. There was probably a pot on the singleshot and I suspect it was set to about 90% of nominal RPM for ac motor drives and probably about 2% for dc motor drives. The only real issues with motor speed not in range are writing out of sector/track boundary (high speed) and read data recovery. With today's good channels read data recover should not a problem over a wide speed range but with the early primitive channels (e.g. "two time constant") this could be a problem. Tom

15 years, 7 months

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DTCyber 5.0 source available

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://www.controlfreaks.org/DtCyber/trunk/ Tom Hunter posted in Sep, 2009 that the source would be available after Sep, 2010 and he followed through on that promise.

15 years, 7 months

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SCSI to IDE (SCSI2IDE) PCBs have arrived

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi! There is a community project at vintage-computer.com forums to convert IDE drives to SCSI interface to support legacy computers like Amiga, Mac, Atari, etc. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?22906-SCSI-1-to-from- IDE-drive-converter The initial batch of prototype PCBs have arrived. Please contact me if interested in working on the SCSI2IDE project. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

15 years, 7 months

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Teletype Tales Part 3

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 1/12/11 12:38 AM, Bill Sudbrink wrote: ... > I hope you have enjoyed reading this, > Bill Sudbrink, January 2011 I finally got a few minutes to sit down and read this. I VERY MUCH enjoyed reading it, thank you for sharing this story! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

15 years, 7 months

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Data Centers

by bpettitx＠comcast.net

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the most critical part of designing a data center: security. The amount of money involved dictates that all details on a data center be closely guarded. Think about the income from ads for Google or selling music on iTunes. Or retailers like eBay or Amazon. Thus information on data centers are the crown jewels for these companies. No way are they going to share this information. The secrecy has reached a point that they will not even acknowledge what country that many of these centers are in, let alone what building. Most have reached the point the military took years ago: no hardware is ever returned to a vendor for repair. It is destroyed on site, never returned for warrenty. Setting up a large data warehouse is a dark arcane science limited to a select few engineers. And the world of the cloud computing will take this secret keeping to another level of paranoia. Billy Pettit

15 years, 7 months

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TSX-Plus help

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

OK... today I discovered the real-time-clock on my 11/23+ was dead, so TSX-Plus wouldn't run properly. I tracked it down to a bad LM339 comparator (inside the chassis power supply, of all places). Miraculously, my local Radio Shack actually had one in stock and it is now working again :) The RL02 pack has RT-11 V4.00 and *two* versions of TSX-Plus on it. The files with the expected .SAV suffix are version 5.0, but there were also several .NEW files (including TSXMOD.NEW even though there was no TSXMOD.SAV). When I run the new TSX-Plus it's version 6.16. Unfortunately both versions are expecting a DL serial line card, not a DH, and they are not interchangeable as far as drivers. And (of course) LINDEF and DHVDEF are two of the short list of parameters that cannot be patched via TSXMOD, but require regenerating the system :( I was hoping to find the distribution files on the pack (such as TSGEN.MAC) but no such luck. So it sounds like I need a new copy of the TSX-Plus distro files... like the hobby-licensed 6.5 :) Jerome H. Fine, would you please contact me offlist if you can help? I've also emailed Lyle Bickley but I haven't seen him on the list in quite a while. thanks for any and all assistance. -Charles

15 years, 7 months

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Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

by waisun.chia＠gmail.com

LinkedIn ------------ General, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Wai Sun Wai Sun Chia Owner at Squid Consulting & Integration Malaysia Confirm that you know Wai Sun Chia https://www.linkedin.com/e/-silvj6-giuxf1pl-2b/isd/2134541550/lg02LGEk/ -- (c) 2010, LinkedIn Corporation

15 years, 7 months

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Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

by waisun.chia＠gmail.com

LinkedIn ------------ General, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Wai Sun Wai Sun Chia Owner at Squid Consulting & Integration Malaysia Confirm that you know Wai Sun Chia https://www.linkedin.com/e/djnwms-giuxf0hz-71/isd/2134541438/V55UmQ-z/ -- (c) 2010, LinkedIn Corporation

15 years, 7 months

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Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

by waisun.chia＠gmail.com

LinkedIn ------------ I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Wai Sun Wai Sun Chia Owner at Squid Consulting & Integration Malaysia Confirm that you know Wai Sun Chia https://www.linkedin.com/e/rs1ho6-giuxeoqh-2m/isd/2134540464/iiwlQPzs/ -- (c) 2010, LinkedIn Corporation

15 years, 7 months

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Compuserve Fisheyes

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

>> http://www.gsbrown.org/compuserve/photos/computer-room-fisheye.html >> >> Betcha there's other pictures in Columbus Ohio newspaper archives, less hands-on-geek stuff and more PR stuff. > Are those tower things spinning DECtape racks? Yep, even better labeled picture in the lower right here, you can see how they slant in and down: http://www.gsbrown.org/compuserve/photos/polyptych-1976.html That's a fascinating website not just for pictures but for overall folklore.

15 years, 7 months

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Teletype Tales Part 3

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

Hi I have an ASR33 that is similar. I've just not had time to tinker with it. When I got it, it seemed to be missing the power board for the reader. I finally made one with a piece of vector board. I had the machine and stand shipped in two packages. I'd not opened the stand because I had't finished fiddling with the unit. I needed to make a little more space and guess what I found in the box for the stand. you guessed it, the supply board for the tape reader. The H plate is easy to do, jammed on the end of a screw driver blade. Dwight

15 years, 7 months

2
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Teletype Tales Part 3#

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> I still didn't have the guts to try and disassemble the typing unit > or the keyboard, but with access to their undersides, I was able to Puty, becaue it really isn't that hard. If i could do it without the manuals and without this list while still at school, then you can do it now :-) > problems remained, no line feed and no bell. I took the typing unit > back out and looked carefully at the area of the line feed mechanism. > It was substantially different from the illustrations in the documents. Do you have the partsbook? I find it to be one of the most useful manuals for the Model 33 becuase of all the exploded diagrams. Anyway, the partsbook I have shows 2 different versions of the friction-feed platten mechanism. The older one has ratchet teeth at both ends of the platten, the later one only at the left side. [..] > The punch seemed like it would be almost trivial. It was, _almost_. The > punch essentially just bolts onto the side of the typing unit. There are > eight small levers that control which holes are punched and there is a > large lever that provides the "power". The small levers simply drop into > place, connecting with push rods in the typing unit. The large lever > connects to a rotating shaft in the typing unit. Here's where the trick is. > The lever connects to the shaft via a sleeve. The shaft has holes all the > way through it, the sleeve has holes on both sides and screws go all the > way through the sleeve and the shaft. There is almost no play in the > connection... almost. I took out the KSR typing unit and transferred the > punch mechanism to it. > > I put the KSR typing unit back in, threaded in some tape and tried it. > Shredded > tape. What??? Everything sure looked OK. The "bit" levers looked like > they were all moving correctly, the large lever seemed to be going through > its motions. I spent a long time watching it. Finally, I tried putting it > back on the ASR typing unit. Shredded tape. WHAT!!! What could possibly > have changed? Maybe I attached the sleeve for the large lever to the wrong > holes? No, those are the only holes in the shaft. That's when I noticed > that little bit of play. Just three or four degrees. That couldn't > possibly make any difference, could it? I held the play all the way > clockwise > and tightened the sleeve screws. Shredded tape. I loosened up the sleeve, > held the play all the way counter-clockwise and retightened. Perfect! I > moved the punch back to the KSR typing unit and, with my new knowledge, got > it attached and working. That link is actually in 2 parts -- the sleeve that clamps to the shaft and the crank plate that carries the link to the punch. They re held together by a screw. Loosening that gives you quite a bit of adjustment (10's of degrees)(, and that's waht you should be using. > > After the punch experience, I spent a very long taking exact measurements of > the reader control mechanism that needed to be moved to the KSR typing unit. > It is a complicated little assembly, consisting of a cam controlled lever > that moves based on whether a solenoid is energized and in turn opens and > closes a switch as the cam rotates. It looked like the location tolerances > of the whole thing would be about a sixteenth of an inch. There is a spring > that attaches to the lever and keeps it pressed tight against the cam. I > transferred the mechanism. Attaching the spring turned out to be the > hardest > part of the whole job. The lever end of the spring is "permanently" It's a lot easier if you remove the transmitter shaft first. Take the distributoir unit apart, then unto the clamps over the bearings and essentailly the shaft justlifts out. > attached, > but the other end has to thread through a tight space and hook over a small > pin that is part of the typing unit frame. I fooled with it for more than > an > hour. What finally worked was to tie some plastic fishing line to the end > of > the spring, guide the line to the pin and use the line to stretch the spring > over to the pin. I used a piece of "coat hanger" wire to coax the loop at > the > end of the spring over the pin and then finally reached in with a long thin > scalpel to cut the line and pull it out. Many years ago I bought a set of speing hooks spedifically for doing things like this. They weren't cheap, but they've saved a lot of bad lanugage over the years :-) > > "There's the easy part done," I said to myself. I figured I would spend the > rest of the day getting the lever, solenoid and switch lined up correctly. > I put the KSR... well, now it was really the ASR, typing unit back in and > fired it up. The bit gods, or maybe Rube Goldberg himself, smiled upon me. > It worked the first time. Actually, I've never hand any problems getting that part to work first time... -tony

15 years, 7 months

1
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Teletype Tales Part 1

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> I should point out here that, while I'm not bothered by the complexity > of electronic circuits, I find mechanical complexity (lots of levers, > gears, cogs and the like) a bit intimidating. I guess I had a mis-spent childhood. I grew up taking mechanicla things apart, and more importantly putting them together again. When I got my first ASR33 (back in 1985 I think), I didn't have the maniuals, there were no mailing lists like this (at least not in the UK), but I still, very carefully, took it apart, right down to the last nut and bolt. And then put it together again. I would like to say it worked first time, but that would be a lie. No, I'd mis-assembled the feed-supression linkage so that it moved the carriage on control codes. But it didn't take me too long to figure htat out too. -tony

15 years, 7 months

1
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Progress, DHV11/16D card

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Thanks to Pete Turnbull's FindCSR (entering it once by hand was enough) :) and reading another manufacturer's DHV11/16 documentation dug up on Bitsavers, I now know my CSR. Actually, two of them, 160140 and 160160, since I have learned that a DHV11/16 appears to the 11/23+ as two DHV11 8-line cards with consecutive address spaces modulo 20 octal. Then I could run the various DHV11 diagnostics from my XXDP pack, and the first time through on VDHAE0, it found the card but stopped on an ILL INT 430 error. So I took the hint and entered 430 instead of the default 300 for the vector interrupt address. Then Unit 1 passed the tests, but Unit 2 had an ILL INT 440 error. Another clue :) With 440 for the 2nd vector it passed all tests. Now to make sure it's not conflicting with my RLV12 controller, make a cable for the user terminal, and start fumbling with TSGEN.MAC and other TSX-Plus files! All I need is a few VT100's and this will be 100% identical to the system I used at my first EE job (in 1981) :) -Charles

15 years, 7 months

4
3
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Teletype Tales Part 3

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

dwight elvey wrote: > I needed to make a little more space and guess > what I found in the box for the stand. you guessed > it, the supply board for the tape reader. That is the same way mine is configured. I think it is using the whole stand as a heat sink. > The H plate is easy to do, jammed on the end of > a screw driver blade. Like I said, "once you get the knack". Bill

15 years, 7 months

1
0
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Compuserve Fisheyes

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

http://www.gsbrown.org/compuserve/photos/computer-room-fisheye.html Betcha there's other pictures in Columbus Ohio newspaper archives, less hands-on-geek stuff and more PR stuff. Tim.

15 years, 7 months

2
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