- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:56 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >I remember a thread on this list about the best patterns to stack them >when you have a few hundred that you can't get rid of You're giving me ideas. Perhaps when I'm settled somewhere I'll build a giant man sized 128k Mac. Then get inside the tube and have everyone believe I got shrunken. But if I want to go real I could always put to use the 19" paper white crts a lister sent me. Like a Mac on steroids. I still love my Macs (and Lisa). Only got a Plus and an SE but I ain't complaining.

13 years, 6 months

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Grid 2260

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

It's from his future ding ding. He commissioned evil cyborgs (like when aren't they) to steal it from a museum. Believe it or not it's worth like 12,000,000,000$ then whenever the heck then is. But then again maybe it may only be like a year from now considering what Obama bucks will likely be worth. In any event grab it. Money is no object here. ------------------------------ On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:52 PM PST Sam O'nella wrote: >Depends where you're located and what you're hoping to get for it. :-) do you collect anything or is this just from your past? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Adam Michael Rubin <adamrubin at gmail.com> >Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 16:57:43 >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org<cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Grid 2260 > > Hey there, I have an old GRID 2260 laptop. It's a beauty. It works, loads >Windows 3.1.1 for pen computing, but the pen is broken, sadly. > > I would like to sell this computer. Any leads? > >Adamrubin at gmail.com >

13 years, 6 months

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Macintosh 128K in Portland, Cheap

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Do 128k Macs go for big bucks? Guess I've been out of the loop.

13 years, 6 months

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Grid 2260

by adamrubin＠gmail.com

Hey there, I have an old GRID 2260 laptop. It's a beauty. It works, loads Windows 3.1.1 for pen computing, but the pen is broken, sadly. I would like to sell this computer. Any leads? Adamrubin at gmail.com

13 years, 6 months

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3B2 floppies

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

and Scott more often then not DD media will format fine as "quads". They may not last as long as 96tpi media, depending on the quality. I'm going to guess a 720k or 1.44meg drive won't work but it's not impossible.

13 years, 6 months

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reasons to keep a Turbo XT clone.

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

>[Thank yuou for bottom posting. It shows a willingness and ability to >think and adapt to the ettiquettes of others] For the 9 years or whatever I've been on the list I've top posted probably 90+ percent of the time. Because it makes more sense. And I trim more then most people. So I don't understand why you see this as a blessed event. Don't know how I earned a reputation. >The stock 5160 supports 4 floppy drives. (two internal, two on DC37) >The stock 5170 supports 2 floppy drives. But you need a different controller on 5150/5160 to drive an 8" drive, except maybe a ss drive?

13 years, 6 months

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NEC D765D

by doc＠vaxen.net

Is a ceramic NEC D765D worth anything? It's soldered on an adapter board for a bus I don't recognize. Other parts on the board have 1977 date codes. I pulled it out of a recycle bin, so I have no clue what it belongs to. I assume it's a floppy controller, seeing as it has two 34-pin headers... Doc

13 years, 6 months

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NEC D765D

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

I'll give you a dollar for it. seriously

13 years, 6 months

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3B2 floppies

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:54 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >On Wed, 13 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote: >> and Scott more often then not DD media will format fine as "quads". They >> may not last as long as 96tpi media, depending on the quality. >correct! >It is exactly the same issues as using SS media for DS. >It's there; it's the same; but it has not been tested for that use. > >> I'm going to guess a 720k or 1.44meg drive won't work but it's not >> impossible. > >720K BETTER work. >720K 3.5" was developed EXPLICITLY to serve as a replacement for 720K >5.25" It is INTENDED to work. Although there is an assumption that you >are competent to set the drive select and other jumpers for installation. This is assuming all 720k 5 1/4" drives are interchangeable. There are relatively few of those out there, but being there are any number of 360k drives that are not interchangeable, I have my doubts. It may be that controllers are finicky but that's the whole point really.

13 years, 6 months

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reasons to keep a Turbo XT clone.

by saquinn624＠aol.com

About a year ago I got a Turbo XT clone (8-ish MHz V20, I think, full memory). It needs a bit of work (HDD, looks like a cap blew on the floppy, monitor needs a new CEE receptacle wired in), but it seems to power up fine. I've been shoveling it around for the past year-plus, and this is the first time I've even turned it on, which gets me wondering whether it's worth keeping or not, especially when virtualized PCs are so easy to do. I have a 386 and Pentium with ISA slots, so that's not a big deal. For those with old clones, what do you use them for, or is it just mostly nostalgia?

13 years, 6 months

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OT: adorable and cute Android tricks

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Shouldn't they all be sent to Gehenna? How do you expect to maximize battery life with all these wonderful sweet theatrics? I do love my new phone and tablet. But I'm thinking of taking a chop saw to both to extract all the gizmos. Any A* coders? I figure the Wrox book is my best bet. There's a much older one that deals specifically with A* architecture, and looks very good for generic knowledge (has a Pict or something on the cover), but is very old.

13 years, 6 months

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Long Live the Quad was Re: NO QUAD (Was: 3B2 floppies

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

See, the faithful are already gathering to pay homage to the Quad. God save the Quad! Sergio, I'd help in any way I can, but basically I've already said everything I know. But if you need a few specifics about setting up an imaging box, I might be able to help a bit with that. Mainly you need a cable with a twist behind the end connector, use a hd 3.5" drive at the end as A:, a 5 1/4" drive as B:, setup your bios accordingly and you should be good to go. That's the setup that's proved successful for me. >I shall ask you about this matter, Chris. I need to grab some disks for one >Altos 586 and one ATT 3b1. > >Sergio.

13 years, 6 months

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Computing - then & now

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 2:45 PM PST Murray McCullough wrote: >Back in the early years of mass-computerism you had to be a >hobbyist/experimenter with good soldering skills to make computers do >what you wanted them to do. Today they do it without your input and/or >knowledge. Is that not scary? Were there prognosticators who predicted >what would be now, 35-40 yrs. on? Vintage/classic computing were the >safer years, maybe not as exciting! Maybe part of the answer is not to >be connected but we would lose out on participating in this forum and >so much more. > >Murray-- Stick with open source, basic builds.

13 years, 6 months

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reasons to keep a Turbo XT clone.

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:27 PM PST Pete Plank wrote: >It has a controller that supports the SD formats I needed, but I don't recall the specifics. The machine is currently in storage but I do plan on setting it up again soon. > >Pete Please keep us posted. Details like that are invaluable.

13 years, 6 months

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NEC D765D

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

the masks were also leased to Rockwell who's house number was 6765

13 years, 6 months

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NEC D765D

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

ironically I just shipped an NEC 8001a disk drive cabinet to Austria. it also had a ceramic 765 and the most unique door mechanisms I've seen with manual lock buttons. I didn't dismantle to the point that I could say for sure who the manufacturer of the drives were but the visible vertical shaft motors said Teac 18261 on it. Anyone know any more about them than I do or have tech manuals? Oh I got 15$ after shipping but before fees. It cost 100.15$ to ship. My net gain after everything is considered is likely zero or negative. How I love ebay.

13 years, 6 months

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Computing - then & now

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

Back in the early years of mass-computerism you had to be a hobbyist/experimenter with good soldering skills to make computers do what you wanted them to do. Today they do it without your input and/or knowledge. Is that not scary? Were there prognosticators who predicted what would be now, 35-40 yrs. on? Vintage/classic computing were the safer years, maybe not as exciting! Maybe part of the answer is not to be connected but we would lose out on participating in this forum and so much more. Murray--

13 years, 6 months

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reasons to keep a Turbo XT clone.

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:40 AM PST Scott Quinn wrote: >About a year ago I got a Turbo XT clone (8-ish MHz V20, I think, full memory). It needs a bit of work (HDD, looks like a cap blew on the floppy, monitor needs a new CEE receptacle wired in), but it seems to power up fine. > >I've been shoveling it around for the past year-plus, and this is the first time I've even turned it on, which gets me wondering whether it's worth keeping or not, especially when virtualized PCs are so easy to do. I have a 386 and Pentium with ISA slots, so that's not a big deal. For those with old clones, what do you use them for, or is it just mostly nostalgia? Could you give more specifics. Date codes, possibly manufacturer? I'm not going to delude myself thinking it could be a rare clone I've been searching for, and that's not even my purpose for asking. Just curious how old it is. In my stash for instance I have a rebadged AMT ATjr (they kept it in the rom screen, but IBM forced them to change the name to AMTjr). Yes it's mostly about sentiment I'm sure. Chances are there's some kid or whoever who'd be happy to have it. Or a community college. I doubt there are still any 16 bit assembler courses being taught anywhere on planet earth, but it wasn't too long ago there was. But then again perhaps the skills are still necessary to keep those quasi mythical ten billion 80186 embedded apps running.

13 years, 6 months

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Cassette drive for HP 98xx calculator (eBay, currently cheap)

by hp-fix＠xs4all.nl

Yes, it is for use with 98x0 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: "William Maddox" <wmaddox at pacbell.net> Verzonden: ?13-?2-?2013 09:28 Aan: "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Onderwerp: Cassette drive for HP 98xx calculator (eBay, currently cheap) I think this was used with the 9800-series calculators. http://www.ebay.com/itm/s/181076085394 --Bill

13 years, 6 months

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Cassette drive for HP 98xx calculator (eBay, currently cheap)

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

I think this was used with the 9800-series calculators. http://www.ebay.com/itm/s/181076085394 --Bill

13 years, 6 months

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Computing - then & now

by tom_a_sparks＠yahoo.com.au

----- Original Message ----- > A big part of the reason IMO for the excitement in the earlier years of > computing technology was that models were varying and unique, whereas today > they are uniform and ubiquitous. There's not much today that differentiates > computers from the desktop machine on up to super computers except for the > scale. "Back then" computers used a variety of different processors > and had > different models had strong points to them, storage technology was > different, etc. > > Not to say that modern day computing technology isn't impressive. But we > have since at least the last decade or two entered an era of incremental > changes rather than radical ones. > -- Geoffrey Oltmans I feel the guis have also stagnated as there is none-thing radical different between windows, Mac and linux excepted underlying operating system the only system that really worth looking at are the homebrew/clones/single-board-computers system --- tom_a_sparks "It's a nerdy thing I like to do" Child of the Internet born 1983 Please use ISO approved file formats excluding Office Open XML - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Ubuntu wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tomsparks

13 years, 6 months

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Tech:Then & Now

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

This is further to my note on Technology: Then & Now: As F. Chisholm says it?s the ?kitschy lowbrow tastes of the public? in contrast to the sophisticated highbrow tastes of the uber?rich as to who really influences technology development today. It seems the uber-rich are winning. But do we need to be at their mercy or can we ?rebel? through programming (the rise of the Raspberry Pi for instance) or is this just for people in the know as it once was for the hobbyist/experimenter of yesteryear. In our hurried lives, to stay above water, we want the ?simplified? way of using computer technology ? to do what we want, when we want. Whether one is a software or hardware person seems to me to be irrelevant except if you are knowledgeable about technology, i.e., know how it works. I used to know how my Coleco ADAM worked but I don?t know how my Dell Inspiron 15R works. Nor do I really are. It does what I want it to do. Well, most of the time! Is this not what all of us want? Murray--

13 years, 6 months

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Xxdp device drivers

by roe＠liveblockauctions.com

Does anyone have macro-11 source code for _any_ xxdp 2.5 device driver? Dl.sys, anything at all. I want to create a new driver...

13 years, 6 months

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CompacTape/DLT Media

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> I'm trying to restore a Data General MV/2500 (c.1989) which contains what DG referred to as a '130MB CTD'. It's actually a Fujistu M2451A. > My question is: what is the latest generation of DLTs that I can use in the drive? Will DLTtape III cartridges work or do I have to try to find CompacTape IIs from somewhere? I know that TK50's and TK70's cannot use DLTtape III cartridges. Coercivity of the magnetic media is wrong. Some of the mid-generation DLT drives can read TK50 and TK70 CompacTapes but cannot write them. I don't have any actual experience with the M2451A. I am guessing that it is something like a DEC TZ30. For all I know, maybe Fujitsu made the TZ30! It "smells" different than the DEC and Quantum drives and I've often wondered about that. That's a tough nut, restoring a system to use a tape drive for which you have no media. If you had old media to read, then it would be far easier to justify some effort. Is the M2451A a SCSI drive? Just hoping out loud that it is, and that the DG OS doesn't care about drive maker, in which case you could use a far more available cartridge drive and carts instead. Tim.

13 years, 6 months

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Depraz/Digimouse/P4 mouse

by BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu

Anyone on here have one of these? Anyone manage to get one working on a standard serial port, or have the pinout? Thanks! -Ben

13 years, 6 months

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Itch before scratching tape

by jonas＠otter.se

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 18:56:15 -0800, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > I discovered two reels of tape--I assume that they're just different > versions FORT045 and FORT046, as they have different dates (86 and 87) > printed on them. > > Glenn has the ZIP of the TAP files. I can send copies to whoever wants > them. > > Do let me know if either amounts to a hill of beans. > > --Chuck > Wouldn't that be VMS installation tapes for FORTRAN v. 4.5 and v.4.6? It sounds like what they would be labelled. /Jonas

13 years, 6 months

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DDS/DLT compatibility levels [was RE: CompacTape/DLT Media]

by RichA＠vulcan.com

From: Paxton Hoag Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:29 PM > If it is a DDS you can find auxillary drives that should read DDS DAT > tapes. Like DLT there are 1 through 4 versions (i.e. DDS or DDS1, > DDS2, etc.), usually backward compatible. >From personal experience: A DDS2 drive will read and write DDS1 or DDS2 tapes. A DDS3 drive will read and write DDS2 or DDS3 tapes, and read DDS1. A DDS4 drive will read and write DDS4 tapes, might read and write DDS3 tapes correctly, and might read DDS2 (maybe). Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

I was reading ?The Fire in the Valley? ? the story of how the computer became a mass-consumer product - and the wrestling of control by experimenters & hobbyists of computing technology from elites - the computer cognoscenti. This beginning age(1970s-80s) saw the rise of the technocrat, the nerd, the geek who revolutionized technology but who today are the computing elite and control our technocratic society for good or ill. Vintage computers, the beginning era, has been subsumed by a technology so rapidly advancing it threatens to overwhelm us yet I still look back with fondness and I hope we can revive some of that era?s experimentation if only to validate a true hacker ethic. Murray--

13 years, 6 months

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FS: Macs ready to find homes

by slandon110＠gmail.com

I got the following PowerMacs ready to go A PowerMac 8500 with 48MB RAM and a 1GB HDD- Running Rhapsody Dev Release 2 with throw in more ram $75 shipped a PowerMac 9500 with 160MB RAM 1GB HDD running MacOS 7.6 $125 shipped a Quadra 650 with 16MB RAM and a 1GB HDD running MacOS 7.6- Will throw in some 32MB SIMMS $50 shipped 50 PIN SCSI Hard Drives, Any Size $15 dollars shipped each, Let me know what size you need Keep watching the list as I go through and prep more machines for sale.

13 years, 6 months

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FW: [N8VEM-S2I:96] Version 0.3 S2I Firmware Update

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi Update on the SCSI to IDE/SD project S2I. A lot of recent progress. Still looking for testers. Thanks! Andrew Lynch Hi Folks, I have just uploaded developmental firmware version 0.3. Here is what I remember of the changes made: * Support for either IDE or SD Card interface * Support for Pseudo-DMA (you MUST mod your prototype card for this to work) * Support for on-chip target device selection * Substantially improved handling of status codes and sense bytes * Substantial refactoring of protocol phases -- much cleaner and more modular Still looking for testers!!! -Wayne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S2I" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to n8vem-s2i+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

13 years, 6 months

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CompacTape/DLT Media

by merrony＠gmail.com

I'm trying to restore a Data General MV/2500 (c.1989) which contains what DG referred to as a '130MB CTD'. It's actually a Fujistu M2451A. My question is: what is the latest generation of DLTs that I can use in the drive? Will DLTtape III cartridges work or do I have to try to find CompacTape IIs from somewhere? Thanks, Steve Restoration website: http://stephen.homedns.org/dg/

13 years, 6 months

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T-series machines, was Re: OpenSXCE, was Re: Vintage era

by barythrin＠gmail.com

I think it depends which country you're in. I believe the quad core galaxy phone and tablet became dual core state side for some reason.

13 years, 6 months

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Itch before scratching tape

by cclist＠sydex.com

I discovered two reels of tape--I assume that they're just different versions FORT045 and FORT046, as they have different dates (86 and 87) printed on them. Glenn has the ZIP of the TAP files. I can send copies to whoever wants them. Do let me know if either amounts to a hill of beans. --Chuck

13 years, 6 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

The connections from the drive select outputs on the RL8A checked perfectly to the line receiver inputs on the RL logic board. While I appreciate Rick's taking the time to make me a selectable version of the RL02 oscillating seek.... he included a bug at no charge too ;) Specifically, the constant at 0230 (0100) selects the appropriate drive and resets it all right (0101 in AC). But - later on down the program, the SEEK (03) command is issued with another RLCB... however, the AC is forced to 0003 by the microprogrammed 7325. (As is probably apparent by now, the AC must have 0103 in it to select Drive 1). I edited the program to use a TAD 0231 and put the constant at 0231. So instead of the CLA CLL CML IAC RAL (load AC with 03 the hard way, an old-time DEC programmer's way to save one word when memory was a precious commodity) :) the AC now loads with 0103 and lo and behold, Drive 1 seeks merrily away! Restore the two constants to Drive 0 and THAT drive seeks. OK. However, all was not lost... during the couple of hours of chasing my tail wondering where the LSB of the drive select was going, I found that I had inserted the header into the RL logic board crookedly and bent two pins, one in the wrong hole and one shoved aside! :( Not only that, the line driver chip which provides the drive select signals had come from the factory with NO solder at all on its Vcc pin 16! =:^O Fixed that too. I think the OS/8 packs have been wiped out by now... various FAULT lights coming on, especially on the 2nd drive in the chain... going to build another system pack with VTserver which takes a good half-hour or more at 19200 baud. Hope the servo tracks are ok, otherwise I'll need to buy a couple of good packs! -Charles

13 years, 6 months

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11/35 questions

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

I'm just getting to know my "new" 11/35 and have some questions about the current configuration. 1) Was the M981 (unibus jumper/terminator) unique to the 11/35(40)? It's not in the field guide but is mentioned in the Unibus Troubleshooting Manual. I'm assuming it provides near-end termination for the bus but it's curious that the termination portion is on the far side fo the jumper. The only other examples of the M981 that I've seen are in other 11/35 systems. 2) The system has 32KW of core - 8K in the chassis in an MM-11S system unit and 24K in a separate CMI Expandacore box. The MM-11L unit is a little strange in that it is composed of the expected G110 control module and G231 drive module but the core stack is an H215 (parity) rather than H214 (non-parity) unit. Does this matter? If it does, how would it affect operation? 3) This is a "vanilla" system with none of the available CPU options. It does, however, have an M7840 EAE board (KE11-B) which supports hardware multiply and divide. Does this make sense? 4) The system is in a BA11-DB(?) case - 10 1/2" high with H750 power supply on the right side (from the front of the chassis). As received, there are no covers for top, bottom or power supply. Anyone have any spares, or if not, pictures and/or measurements of the original parts? Shouldn't be too hard to fabricate but it would be nice to be as original as possible. OK - that's all for now! Thanks, Jack

13 years, 6 months

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Itch before scratching tape

by cclist＠sydex.com

I was cleaning the head on one of my 9-track drives and used a tape that I've had around for while to check my work. It's labeled VAX-11 FORTRAN FORT046.A and seems to be backup tape for VAX FORTRAN 4.0. Total length is only about 750KB. Anyone interested in the contents before I scratch the tape? --Chuck

13 years, 6 months

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SelectaDock I

by BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu

Hi! I know they're not quite classic as some of the other systems discussed on this list, but anyone have a SelectaDock I in decent condition they'd like to part with? Thanks in advance! -Ben

13 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/20 and KE11 (was Re: 11/35 questions)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: > Ahh, if the KE11-B will run in an 11/20, then I'll be hanging onto one > of them, as I'm working on getting an 11/20. It will work in pretty much everything, AFAIK, since it's a peripheral not a "CPU extension". The KE11-A is functionally identical but built on the backplane peripheral model of the 11/20 and rare enough that I never figured on running across one I could get. I know that there's an occasional KE11-B running around since it's a single card. > I'd love to see v1 UNIX running on real iron. Me too. It's no big shake to run it on a real PDP-11 - as long as you have a KE11 of some kind in there _and_ you have matching peripherals for the 1972-era code. I haven't tried it, but I would be surprised to learn that you couldn't get v1 UNIX working on an 11/04 (peripheral issues aside). What I really want to do (and it sounds like you do too) is to run v1 UNIX not just on real iron, but the on the closest approximate I can manage of what was used in 1972. Step one is to get the 11/20 doing *anything*. Step two is to get the 11/20 running with RK05s. Then I can start to consider how I would either provide a register-compatible swap device or how much coding changes I'd have to tackle to get v1 code to use some _other_ swap device. Once I have a plan for how to provide swap, _then_ it's worth looking in all seriousness for a KE-11. Many steps to go before I have anything to purchase. Lots to fix and play with. -ethan

13 years, 6 months

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2
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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

At 01:27 AM 2/9/2013, Charles wrote: >I tried this program tonight, after making up a new ribbon cable that >had some mechanical damage which I was *hoping* would fix things :P > >A very interesting result - when I hit run, BOTH drives started >seeking and eventually Drive 1 faults. If I unload one of the drives, >the other one seeks when the test program is run. Doesn't matter if >unit 0 or 1 is the active drive! > >Time to start chasing a hardware (drive select) problem I guess... >sigh. Nothing like 30-40 year old hardware... That's what I was worried about. You're lucky that it hasn't scrambled the OS on your drives. :) >-Charles > >ps I think your "assembly listing" has a bug, at 0221 shouldn't that >read JMP 0204? Yup. The original for this (from the RL01/02 pocket service guide) didn't have anything to do a drive select so I added it in. That shifted everything, leading to all the offsets shifting. I missed fixing the comment there, but jmp to 0204 is correct. -Rick I'm pulling my hair out... I disconnected the 2nd drive and now just have one RL02 attached to my RL8A, with a terminator. A bit of background - I could not find a cable that goes from the 40 pin header on the controller card to the first drive, so I made one out of ribbon cable and IDC headers, removing the first external connector and just using headers as it does inside the drive. Now I'm beginning to wonder if the original cable has a "twist" somewhere in the drive selects like the old PC floppy cables, because... Although I can set and reset the two drive select bits on the RL8A, and the 75113 line drivers also change state appropriately, those signals are not reaching the correct place on the logic board inside the RL02! At the 75107 line receivers (E57), those two bits are always logic 00, i.e. drive 0. So the drive won't select at all unless I put the Unit 0 plug in, at which point it effectively ignores the drive select bits and always selects regardless of the state of those two bits at the controller. Confirming that the drive select lines are dead. The only thing between the line drivers and receivers is 6' of ribbon cable. It leaves the RL8A on J1 header pins TT, SS, RR, PP and is supposed to enter the RL02 logic board on J12 header pins C, D, E, F which accounts for the cable being reversed. Just in case I even tried flipping the header connector around and of course the drive won't load or work at all and the Fault light stays on, so I know I have it facing the right way. Unless it's possible to make a cable upside down and backwards, or some such? This setup DID previously run OS/8, ADVENT, FOCAL, whatever was on the pack, but only using one of the RL02's (I don't think I was ever able to access the other drive). I can't think of anything that could "lose" the drive select lines except a defective cable (will continuity-check tomorrow, even though I made a new one by copying the old one that used to work) or else the correct cable (BC80J-20) is not a straight-through pin for pin connection, in which case I have to have one. Just to further confuse things, I have the identical two-drive setup with homemade controller-to-drive cable on my 11/23+ and RLV11 card, and it works perfectly. So now I'm just going in circles... that's enough for tonight!

13 years, 6 months

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networking via SCSI?

by cctech＠beyondthepale.ie

> Not to mention that CI doesn't support a bus > topology, only a star. And a CI network is limited to a 90m radius, > while Ethernet was designed for a maximum station separation of 2.5Km. > So please remind me again just exactly what is so similar between CI and > Ethernet? I thought a CI coupler was mostly a transformer. If so, would a CI network not behave much like a bus, even if it didn't look like one? A lot more like a bus I would have thought than modern ethernet which neither looks nor behaves like a bus. (Not that I'm worried about whether CI is like Ethernet or not...) Regards, Peter Coghlan.

13 years, 6 months

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Last of Don Maslin's collection available

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Another curator and I went to San Diego on Thursday and finished sorting the collection for Deborah. There are several S-100 systems, terminals, a metal case Commodore PET, Tek 4012, and many, many S-100 boards that were out of CHM's collecting scope that are available. We ended up taking about 6 pallets of stuff, most of the documentation and software and a few systems that we didn't already have in the colleciton. If you forward your email adr to me I will forward it on to her. We suggested eBaying them, but there may be too many of them to deal with that way. She probably will be reluctant to ship anything large.

13 years, 6 months

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Surplus HD's

by curt＠atarimuseum.com

Hi, Looking for HD's for a friend of mine who does repair work on vintage systems and his supply of HD's has dried up so I'm working out a trade with him. Looking for: 3.5" SCSI HD's in small sizes (40, 80, 120MB sizes) 2.5" IDE HD's in small sizes (40, 80, 120MB sizes) Looking for around 20 of each type, must be working/tested condition... Would either buy them for $5 ea or work out a trade, email me off-list if you have some or can point me to someone who may have them, thanks. Curt

13 years, 6 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

At 01:27 AM 2/9/2013, Charles wrote: >I tried this program tonight, after making up a new ribbon cable that >had some mechanical damage which I was *hoping* would fix things :P > >A very interesting result - when I hit run, BOTH drives started >seeking and eventually Drive 1 faults. If I unload one of the drives, >the other one seeks when the test program is run. Doesn't matter if >unit 0 or 1 is the active drive! > >Time to start chasing a hardware (drive select) problem I guess... >sigh. Nothing like 30-40 year old hardware... That's what I was worried about. You're lucky that it hasn't scrambled the OS on your drives. :) >-Charles > >ps I think your "assembly listing" has a bug, at 0221 shouldn't that >read JMP 0204? Yup. The original for this (from the RL01/02 pocket service guide) didn't have anything to do a drive select so I added it in. That shifted everything, leading to all the offsets shifting. I missed fixing the comment there, but jmp to 0204 is correct. -Rick I'm pulling my hair out... I disconnected the 2nd drive and now just have one RL02 attached to my RL8A, with a terminator. A bit of background - I could not find a cable that goes from the 40 pin header on the controller card to the first drive, so I made one out of ribbon cable and IDC headers, removing the first external connector and just using headers as it does inside the drive. Now I'm beginning to wonder if the original cable has a "twist" somewhere in the drive selects like the old PC floppy cables, because... Although I can set and reset the two drive select bits on the RL8A, and the 75113 line drivers also change state appropriately, those signals are not reaching the correct place on the logic board inside the RL02! At the 75107 line receivers (E57), those two bits are always logic 00, i.e. drive 0. So the drive won't select at all unless I put the Unit 0 plug in, at which point it effectively ignores the drive select bits and always selects regardless of the state of those two bits at the controller. Confirming that the drive select lines are dead. The only thing between the line drivers and receivers is 6' of ribbon cable. It leaves the RL8A on J1 header pins TT, SS, RR, PP and is supposed to enter the RL02 logic board on J12 header pins C, D, E, F which accounts for the cable being reversed. Just in case I even tried flipping the header connector around and of course the drive won't load or work at all and the Fault light stays on, so I know I have it facing the right way. Unless it's possible to make a cable upside down and backwards, or some such? This setup DID previously run OS/8, ADVENT, FOCAL, whatever was on the pack, but only using one of the RL02's (I don't think I was ever able to access the other drive). I can't think of anything that could "lose" the drive select lines except a defective cable (will continuity-check tomorrow, even though I made a new one by copying the old one that used to work) or else the correct cable (BC80J-20) is not a straight-through pin for pin connection, in which case I have to have one. Just to further confuse things, I have the identical two-drive setup with homemade controller-to-drive cable on my 11/23+ and RLV11 card, and it works perfectly. So now I'm just going in circles... that's enough for tonight! EDIT: Additional note: When the two-drive system was running OS/8, I had the ribbon cable going to the bottom drive in the rack which had Unit 1 plug, then the proper BC20J cable from there to the top drive with Unit 0 plug. Makes me wonder anew if there is something non- obvious about the connections of the drive select lines within the DEC cables...

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Just one last thing before I utterly let this go (I should think I'm entitled after that lying diatribe) - when o God when will he quit with those goofy cartoons! ------------------------------ On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 9:28 AM PST Liam Proven wrote: >On 9 February 2013 16:44, Doc <doc at vaxen.net> wrote: >> On 2/8/13 8:36 PM, Liam Proven wrote: >> >> >> He doesn't believe in her. The world was made in 6 days by a magic >> sky-pixie. He thinks all those nasty fossil things were laid down in >> the great flood and humans haven't evolved, they were made by the same >> invisible big-old-fairy-with-a-white-beard, just as they are today. >> >> You're wasting your time with this chap; he is both stupid and very >> ignorant, a terrible combination. I mean, come on, he's too dim to >> learn how to quote in an email! >> >> >> >> Why, really, do you believe your vitriol is any less offensive than his? > >I don't. > >But see, it's a bit like this cartoon: >http://www.atheistmemebase.com/2012/03/30/quit-persecuting-us/ > >(For the WWW impaired: a single figure says "god probably doesn't >exist". 50 identical figures shout "stop persecuting us!") > >There are many billions of religious people in the world. *All* of >their beliefs are based on superstition and myth; that is the nature >of religion. None of it can be demonstrated; if it could be, it would >not require faith and it would no longer be religion. > >The religious run most countries; their houses of worship line the >streets of every city. You cannot be a Girl Guide or a Boy Scout >without making obeisance to their invisible friends. In many >countries, mine included, you cannot sing the national anthem without >invoking some religion's mythical deity. > >But the minority of us who are free of this kind of mental infection >and who actually base our worldview on facts and reason just >occasionally open our mouths and point out that the claims of the >religious are ridiculous, that when held up to the light of day, they >are self-evident nonsense, *we* are the ones who get attacked for >oppression. > >No. I am not oppressing anyone. > >The christians, muslims, jews and so on oppress billions. Don't accuse >me. If they still had the power they once had, they would torture me >to death. All I do is point out that their belief is a >self-inconsistent travesty. They killed millions in the name of their >illusory magic sky-pixie. People are still killed daily over it. > >This man believes in a series of ridiculous fairy-stories that no >unbrainwashed person would believe. He has personally attacked me on >this mailing-list for not sharing his delusions. He has personally >emailed me to mock my reasoned, evidence-based, factual, materialistic >outlook and to try to infect me with his sick twisted death-cult. His >death-cult which involves images of pain and death as its leitmotif; >adherents of which adorn themselves with little effigied of a dying >man, or with pictures of an instrument of torture. > >It is sick, horrible, and wrong. It distorts minds, destroys lives, >robs people of their freedom to express their sexuality, it denies gay >people the same rights as straights, it denies women reproductive >freedom. Related sects routinely mutilate the genitals of infants. > >They are all abhorrent, disgusting cults and the sooner the world is >rid of them the better. > >And no, I will not shut up about it, and no, I am not ashamed of it, >and if I my stating these blatant and self-evident truths offends >people, well, *good.* I am offended by their superstition and what it >makes them do. It made me think. Perhaps being offended will make them >think, too. > >Being offended never hurt or injured anyone. Being offended is good >for you. It challenges you, makes you question things. > >> I'm not Christian (my faith is neither up for discussion not relevant here >> AT ALL), but your hatred and your condescension toward people of a certain >> faith just reek of the same narrow-mindedness of which you accuse them. > >I hate all faiths, pretty much equally. Some are more evil than >others, such as scientology or the jehovah's witnesses or the >christ-scientists - religions which routinely kill children by denying >them medical treatment. > >But they are all mental infections, viral memes that destroy minds and lives. > >It's just that some come up more often than others. I don't pick 'em >out. They self-select. > >-- >Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile >Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven >MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven >Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 >

13 years, 6 months

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Sunstruck/Wanda T-shirt

by cclist＠sydex.com

THe lack of response on this undoubtedly means that its best place is in the rag bag, I suppose. It's good cotton and will make a fine rag with which to wax my car. Oh well, I tried. Must have been an unmemorable release. --Chuck

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 11:42 AM PST Bill Sudbrink wrote: >Fred Cisin wrote: >> >> I blame NIXON >> > >I shouldn't really do this but it's too good to pass... > >It's really Taft's fault. Look do your research. The problem can readily be traced back to Henry VIII. But Tutankahmen really REALLY started it all. And thanks for the diversion Bill. I was all geared up to jump on Freddy's response. But of course he's right in that dead presidents are far more to blame then any living ones.

13 years, 6 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I tried this program tonight, after making up a new ribbon cable that had some mechanical damage which I was *hoping* would fix things :P A very interesting result - when I hit run, BOTH drives started seeking and eventually Drive 1 faults. If I unload one of the drives, the other one seeks when the test program is run. Doesn't matter if unit 0 or 1 is the active drive! Time to start chasing a hardware (drive select) problem I guess... sigh. Nothing like 30-40 year old hardware... -Charles ps I think your "assembly listing" has a bug, at 0221 shouldn't that read JMP 0204? On Feb 6, 2013, at 5:21 AM, Rick Murphy wrote: > Here's something you can try to verify that your disks are properly > hooked up. It's the oscillating seek toggle-in for the PDP-8 > modified to allow the unit to be selected. You can toggle it in via > ODT and let it fly - it'll seek the drive back and forth. If this > works on drive 1, then you've got an OS/8 driver that isn't sending > out the select properly. > > 0200 7201 CAF (Reset) > 0201 1230 TAD 0230 - Get drive select > 0202 6604 Load command register b - select drive > 0203 1231 Loop: TAD 0231 - get number of cylinders to seek > 0204 4222 JMS 0222 - Wait for ready > 0205 3226 DCA 0226 - Store cylinder number > 0206 1226 ISZ 0226 - Increment it > 0207 6603 Load command register A - seek > 0210 7325 Seek command (0003) > 0211 6604 Load command register B > 0212 4222 JMS 0222 - Wait for ready > 0213 7307 Read header command (0004) > 0214 6604 > 0215 1226 TAD 0226 - Get seek value > 0216 1227 Change direction > 0217 7500 SZA CLA > 0220 5203 JMP 0203 - Back to start > 0221 5204 JMP 0205 - Loop > > 0222 0000 Wait subroutine > 0223 6601 RLSD - skip if done > 0224 5223 JMP .-1 > 0225 5622 JMP I 0221 > > 0226 0000 Temp > 0227 4000 Constant > 0230 0100 Drive one > 0231 0200 Number of cylinders to seek >

13 years, 6 months

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Available S-100 PCBs

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi There are three (3) S-100 Regular Prototyping board PCBs and eight (8) S-100 LAVA PCBs still available aka "Basic S-100 Prototype Board" (scroll down to the second board description). These are going fast so please act soon if you would like one or more. Approximately 90% of the boards have already gone to their builders. http://s100computers.com/Cards%20For%20Sale.htm http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=S-100%20regular %20prototyping%20board S-100 LAVA PCB is for a VGA monitor compatible display. Uses Mylium LAVA-10 chip module (based Spartan-3 FPGA) http://www.mylium.es/pages/en/lava_10.html http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Lava-10%20Board/LAVA-10%20Board .htm The S-100 LAVA works fine and does what it was designed to do quite well. However, in my personal opinion the S-100 LAVA capability has been barely even touched since the current software uses the board as a VGA monitor compatible text terminal replacement. I believe it is capable of quite a bit more text and graphics capability with further developed software. The S-100 LAVA is capable of 800x600 @ 16 bit display (65536 colors -- RGB565) with 32MB of SDRAM and 8 MB of Flash it should be easily capable of being an X-Window server and who knows what else. It makes a logical pairing with upcoming S-100 80386 CPU and S-100 68K CPU board PCBs currently in development. These PCBs are $20 each plus $3 shipping in the US and $6 elsewhere. Please send a PayPal to LYNCHAJ at YAHOO.COM and I will send your boards right away! Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

13 years, 6 months

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Lots of goodies for sale

by slandon110＠gmail.com

Got the following for sale DayStar Turbo040 Card with Mac IISI Adapter, works in Mac IIci, SE/30 and IIsi $150 shipped Apple IIGS Monitors $50 shipped each PowerMacs of all sorts $50 each shipped- got at least 50 Tell me what model you want I probably have it 68k Macs of all sorts $50 each shipped- Tell me what model you want and I probably got it G4 Upgrade Card for PowerMac 7300-9600 Makes it a G4 450mhz $35 shipped RAM Lots of 30 pin 4MB SIMMS $20 bucks shipped for a small flat rate box full of it 50 pin SCSI Hard Drives- All sizes from 20MB up to 4GB $20 Each shipped IBM Type 7204 Model 409 9.1GB External SCSI Hard Drive for AS/400 $30 shipped LaCie 9GB External SCSI Hard Drive $30 shipped Sun Optical Mice- $10 each shipped eBay feedback upon request, PayPal only Thanks Steve

13 years, 6 months

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networking via SCSI?

by jeffj＠panix.com

Long ago when SCSI was young and just an 8 bit parallel bus, Ampro littleboards advocated using the SCSI bus for peer to peer communications, not just master/slave. Did anyone else do that? A fellow contacted me with this problem: I have a couple of Kurzweil synthesizers (/samplers/sequencers): K2000RS and K2600X . They have integrated floppy and SCSI HDDs for storing configuration, composition and audio sample data. They're actually 68000 CPUs with a Kurzweil OS, managing IO among peripherals (keys, SCSI, display LCD, MIDI, etc) and several proprietary DSPs. But there's no serial/network/etc IO. I'm interested in trying to use their SCSI to interface them with a (Linux) PC somehow. Any ideas? Like maybe some webpages describing projects that have networked older (preferably 68xxx) CPUs over their shared SCSI bus. My understanding is that a Kurzweil and a Mac were sometimes configured each as a SCSI device on the same SCSI bus as the HDD, and either host could alternate accessing the HDD once the other host was no longer issuing potentially conflicting SCSI commands to the HDD. I don't see how just read commands could conflict, but perhaps the HDD wasn't able to multiplex commands targeting different hosts in any overlap. But evidently people were transferring samples between Kurzweil and Mac this way. [I replied privately about the problem of multiple machines sharing a drive even if one is read-only] any clues or hints? thanks -- jeff jonas

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Coming from the worthless little piece of offscouring who uttered the phrase "jew on a stick". ------------------------------ On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 6:36 PM PST Liam Proven wrote: >On 8 February 2013 21:01, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: > >> But don't overlook the responsibility of Lucy Zinjanthropus ! > >He doesn't believe in her. The world was made in 6 days by a magic >sky-pixie. He thinks all those nasty fossil things were laid down in >the great flood and humans haven't evolved, they were made by the same >invisible big-old-fairy-with-a-white-beard, just as they are today. > >You're wasting your time with this chap; he is both stupid and very >ignorant, a terrible combination. I mean, come on, he's too dim to >learn how to quote in an email! > >Just killfile him - it's the easiest option. > >-- >Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile >Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven >MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven >Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 >

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage er

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

stop you it's been decades ---------------------------- On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 6:25 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >> >Oh wow man, please, whatever you're smoking, you gotta share it with >> >everyone else - you're hitting it too hard. > >On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote: >> if you wish to express your objection to anything I've said Ray please >> do so offlist. > >In other words, "meet me privately to share it"

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Always the same response. Nothing ever changes. It must not be real or worth their precious time because it clashes with their so *NOT* well thought out world view. What can I say. I was asked, I delivered, and their bleat(ing) goes on. ------------------------------ On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 11:02 PM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >On 2/7/2013 10:17 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> This warrants a top post not that I needed an excuse: >> >> GOOGLE - USDA, OBAMA, COMMERCIALS >> >> Or, though it scares me to think, you mean justify my calling his/their actions TREASONOUS, tell me who's welfare, for want of a much better term, they have in mind when conspiring with a foreign gov't to lure yet more unskilled, illiterate masses for the purpose of expanding the welfare state, insuring perpetual generations of low information voters. Not mine, and likely not yours. Who is the president supposed to be working for??? Foreign nationals!!!??? >> > >Well, a statement with that many exclamation points and question marks >must be well thought out and worth my time. > >And the first hit for your Google search is a link to an article on the >Daily Caller, I considered reading it but then I pondered whether >watching paint dry might be more informative. (I came to the conclusion >that it would be.) > >- Josh > >> >> ------------------------------ >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 9:15 PM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >> >> On 2/7/2013 8:54 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >>> An add to the mix an administration who is running ads in Mehico explaining how people can get food stamps and whatnot once they get here. Can you say, anyone, high crimes and misdemeanors? Too difficult? How's about TREASON!!! >> [Citation needed.] >> >> >

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage er

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Re: Vintage er-------------------- On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 3:00 PM PST Ray Arachelian wrote: >On 02/07/2013 11:54 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> >> Putting the cart before the horse. Obviously banks were more or less FORCED into delving out loans to those who couldn't pay them back. > >Oh wow man, please, whatever you're smoking, you gotta share it with >everyone else - you're hitting it too hard. if you wish to express your objection to anything I've said Ray please do so offlist. At this point this portion of a legitimate thread has run its course. As for a legitimate contribution to the op, I did enjoy reading Rebel Code a few years ago (maybe more then a few).

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Putting the cart before the horse. Obviously banks were more or less FORCED into delving out loans to those who couldn't pay them back. But if the do good granny state LIBERALS would have stayed out of the business of deciding who should own their own home (that would be everyone), things wouldn't be anywhere near as messy as they are. An add to the mix an administration who is running ads in Mehico explaining how people can get food stamps and whatnot once they get here. Can you say, anyone, high crimes and misdemeanors? Too difficult? How's about TREASON!!! Yes the banks and the suits and the boogeyman are culpable. But I'll repeat if they were left alone and allowed to do what they're supposed to do and not dole out risky loans, we wouldn't be here. If you haven't done research into the root causes of this crisis, you just don't want to know. ------------------------------ On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 3:54 PM PST Chuck Guzis wrote: >On 02/07/2013 02:16 PM, Jim Stephens wrote: >> I don't think the drift of the conversation to condemning banking people >> will play well with some fine list members. I certainly think where the >> execution of bad management and risky practices at some banks is >> certainly fair game, I don't think the condemnation of "bankers" is the >> same as the bean counters which were the original topic. > >So you maintain that the banks had absolutely nothing to do with the current recession or LIBOR manipulation games? In particular, the large investment banks aren't responsible for any of it? > >Oh, okay. Suum cuique. > >--Chuck > >

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 12:07 AM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >On 2/7/2013 11:22 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> Always the same response. Nothing ever changes. It must not be real or worth their precious time because it clashes with their so *NOT* well thought out world view. What can I say. I was asked, I delivered, and their bleat(ing) goes on. > >Have you considered that the problem might in fact be you? (BTW, your >description of Mexicans as "unskilled" and "illiterate" masses says a >number of things about your character, none of them good). I haven't any food stamps to give anyone, much less illegal, unskilled, illiterate Mexicans. How is it that you're so comfortable with your country's unwillingness to control it's borders??? And do you see doctors, lawyers, and engineers scurrying across the border? Countries like Australia run campaigns to attract SKILLED workers. Why should we be any different? > >- Josh > >> >> ------------------------------ >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 11:02 PM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >> >> On 2/7/2013 10:17 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >>> This warrants a top post not that I needed an excuse: >>> >>> GOOGLE - USDA, OBAMA, COMMERCIALS >>> >>> Or, though it scares me to think, you mean justify my calling his/their actions TREASONOUS, tell me who's welfare, for want of a much better term, they have in mind when conspiring with a foreign gov't to lure yet more unskilled, illiterate masses for the purpose of expanding the welfare state, insuring perpetual generations of low information voters. Not mine, and likely not yours. Who is the president supposed to be working for??? Foreign nationals!!!??? >>> >> Well, a statement with that many exclamation points and question marks >> must be well thought out and worth my time. >> >> And the first hit for your Google search is a link to an article on the >> Daily Caller, I considered reading it but then I pondered whether >> watching paint dry might be more informative. (I came to the conclusion >> that it would be.) >> >> - Josh >> >>> ------------------------------ >>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 9:15 PM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >>> >>> On 2/7/2013 8:54 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >>> An add to the mix an administration who is running ads in Mehico explaining how people can get food stamps and whatnot once they get here. Can you say, anyone, high crimes and misdemeanors? Too difficult? How's about TREASON!!! >>> [Citation needed.] >>> >>> >> >

13 years, 6 months

6
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Vintage era

by cisin＠xenosoft.com

> > I blame NIXON On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I shouldn't really do this but it's too good to pass... > It's really Taft's fault. We have had exactly one president who didn't blame the problems on a previous president. But, I can't think of anything that I don't blame on Nixon. Sometimes, I need to stretch a little for 404 or General Failure/Abort Retry Ignore, etc. "But when a robotic Nixon is on the loose, we have a duty to take action." -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

So the banks just one day decided to throw all caution to the wind. And you never even stop to ask why. Absolutely nothing to do with the fear of litigation. I already said the banks played their part. But the govt and the lawyers provided fertile ground for all the shenanigans. Go on youtube and take a look at what Barney Fag and Maxine Waters had to say when investigations of Fannie and Freddie were taking place. Yes this started long before Obama was president - the problem is liberal democrats, of which he is one if you haven't noticed, but my understanding is even he worked at firm which engaged in harassing banks into generating risky loans. Oh no. The whole crisis had nothing to do with the gov't wanting to get low income people into houses. It was just the evil banks devising this crap on their own. And granted.the loans were packaged and repackaged in some kind of effort to balance their books, which just caused everything to come crashing down. But just tell me - yes tell me what the Community Reinvestment Act has to do with responsible government. ------------------------------ On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 4:54 AM PST Steven Hirsch wrote: >On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote: > > >> Putting the cart before the horse. Obviously banks were more or less FORCED into delving out loans to those who couldn't pay them back. But if the do good granny state LIBERALS would have stayed out of the business of deciding who should own their own home (that would be everyone), things wouldn't be anywhere near as messy as they are. > >Sorry, I normally stay out of political flame-wars, but cannot let this go by without a rebuttal. Simply put: Check your facts with an authority other than Fox News before repeating this tired, right-wing rhetoric. > >There is a small kernel of truth in that Fannie-Mae and Freddie-Mac were under pressure to get more loans into under-served areas. However, the vast majority of shenanigans took place in the private sector which needed no impetus other than greed to throw underwriting guidelines overboard. The total default exposure from Fannie and Freddie as a result of congressional push was a tiny fraction of what such great American icons as Nationwide Finance ran up with no other push than desire for executive bonus. > >> to the mix an administration who is running ads in Mehico explaining how people can get food stamps and whatnot once they get here. Can you say, anyone, high crimes and misdemeanors? Too difficult? How's about TREASON!!! Yes the banks and the suits and the boogeyman are culpable. But I'll repeat if they were left alone and allowed to do what they're supposed to do and not dole out risky loans, we wouldn't be here. > >Left completely to their own devices, Wall Street would have tanked the world economy out of nothing more than sheer, unadulterated greed. If your much-hated Gub'mint hadn't backed up their malfeasance with billions of dollars of taxpayer money, the ensuing crash would have given the Great Depression competition for extremes of misery. And, guess what? The same forces that brought you the great recession are fighting tooth and nail to gut any semblance of regulation so they CAN DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN! > >> If you haven't done research into the root causes of this crisis, you just don't want to know. > >My friend, I have done my research. If you used sources other than Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the Murdock media empire you'd not be so quick to buy into and spout this nonsense. > > > > >--

13 years, 6 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 114, Issue 10

by FRED＠miser.misernet.net

>From: IN%"cctalk at classiccmp.org" 8-FEB-2013 10:08:45.32 >To: IN%"cctalk at classiccmp.org" >CC: >Subj: cctalk Digest, Vol 114, Issue 10 >From: "Alexandre Souza - Listas" <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> >Subject: Telesign TS-16 >Message-ID: <F41F2F4206D8494A8DF29E20F9D917ED at tababook> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original > Try Dan Gliebe at www.tigercam.com or www.gliebetronics.com, he's such a >nice chap and if I'm not mistaken, he reverse engineered one of these panels >years ago. I lent him some help at that moment. Since it was some 10 or 15 >years ago, my mind is fuzzy on this subject. Hi, Both websites listed don't exist. tigercam is squatted upon and gliebetronics is a GoDaddy parked page. :( I appreciate the quick response though! Fred

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage er

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

and Jean kindly keep your foreign farm lingo on your side of the border I don't know what herp derp is supposed to mean but it scares me frankly. I hope it isn"t something you're suffering from. Yuck ------------------------------ On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 6:43 AM PST geneb wrote: >On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Josh Dersch wrote: > >> On 2/7/2013 11:22 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> Always the same response. Nothing ever changes. It must not be real or worth their precious time because it clashes with their so *NOT* well thought out world view. What can I say. I was asked, I delivered, and their bleat(ing) goes on. >> >> In the 4th paragraph of said Daily Caller article, we have the following: >> >> "The [food stamp participation] partnership --- which was signed <http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdamediafb?contentid=2004/07/0301.xml&…> by former USDA Secretary Ann M. Veneman and Mexican Secretary of Foreign Affairs Luis Ernesto Derbez Bautista in *2004*..." >> >> Pretty sure Obama The Treasonous wasn't president in 2004. How's your "well thought out world view" working for you today? >> >Jeeze Josh, if you keep showing up with facts in the face of his wild-eyed supposition, I suspect he'll throw a tantrum. Hrm.. *grabs popcorn* Fact away! *laughs* > >g. > >-- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 >http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. >http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. >Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > >ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment >A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. >http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

you're just jealous of me Jean and you know it ------------------------------ On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 6:40 AM PST geneb wrote: >On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote: > >> >> Always the same response. Nothing ever changes. It must not be real or worth their precious time because it clashes with their so *NOT* well thought out world view. What can I say. I was asked, I delivered, and their bleat(ing) goes on. > >You realize of course that if every word you ever wrote here was replaced with "Herp, derp!", the content would be the same? > >g. > >-- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 >http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. >http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. >Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > >ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment >A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. >http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

I definitely do feel his herp derp pain. ------------------------------ On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 7:29 AM PST Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: >> Always the same response. Nothing ever changes. It must not be real or worth their precious time because it clashes with their so *NOT* well thought out world view. What can I say. I was asked, I delivered, and their bleat(ing) goes on. >> You realize of course that if every word you ever wrote here was replaced with "Herp, derp!", the content would be the same? > > I feel some feelings between you two... :oD

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 10:33 PM PST mc68010 wrote: >On 2/7/2013 10:17 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> This warrants a top post not that I needed an excuse: >> >> GOOGLE - USDA, OBAMA, COMMERCIALS >> >> Or, though it scares me to think, you mean justify my calling his/their actions TREASONOUS, tell me who's welfare, for want of a much better term, they have in mind when conspiring with a foreign gov't to lure yet more unskilled, illiterate masses for the purpose of expanding the welfare state, insuring perpetual generations of low information voters. Not mine, and likely not yours. Who is the president supposed to be working for??? Foreign nationals!!!??? >> >> >This is just like the emails I get from my 70 year old aunt except with all the RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE YOU MUST READ THIS !!! Stop NoBAMA !!!111 in the subject header. > >Hopefully we'll get back to old computers before we are all marched off to the FEMA camps and can't read email anymore. Well the rest of you anyway since I'm all good with Obama. He sent me a Christmas card so I think we're cool. I expect it will get me pass the the checkpoints. No one is spamming you genius. Someone requested a citation. I just thoght I'd perform a public service and educate them. And it's absolutely uplifting to see yet another ostrich bury their head in the ground. Yes this a forum for discussing vintage gear, you don't have to love the occasional and brief digression, and this one was started by an old timer (on the list LOL). Fema camps my lord.

13 years, 6 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 114, Issue 9

by FRED＠miser.misernet.net

>From: IN%"cctalk at classiccmp.org" 8-FEB-2013 00:22:45.52 >To: IN%"cctalk at classiccmp.org" >CC: >Subj: cctalk Digest, Vol 114, Issue 9 >From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > In other words: "Fucking SUITS!" set mode/type=delurk I couldn't have said it better myself, having first hand experience with suits and MBA types. Why are most MBA's that I have met (not all, mind you) borderline sociopaths? Is there some trait of sociopaths that draws them to be an MBA? If anyone is interested in an entertaining (albeit disgusting, in a professional sense) story, e-mail me off list. ObOnTopic: I posted this a long while ago to another tech oriented list I'm on, and I've seen folks here that overlap, so apologies for those that have already seen this. I'm hoping maybe I'll strike with someone here - I have a Telesign TS-16 moving red LED sign. I do not have the controller. I'd love to get the controller for it, or figure out how to talk to the 25 pin female connector on it (looks like a parallel port). I've tried serial, no luck. Tried parallel and while I got the devices attention (it cleared the screen and stopped scrolling) I have no idea what to send. Hard googling and searching only comes up with my post on the other list. I can't beleive this thing is that unobtanium, but I've been wrong before. ;) Cheers, Fred

13 years, 6 months

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System/36 manuals

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I've been working on getting my S36 maint drawing set uploaded, and realized that I don't have very many manuals for the system. Does anyone have any that they'd be willing to have scanned?

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

This warrants a top post not that I needed an excuse: GOOGLE - USDA, OBAMA, COMMERCIALS Or, though it scares me to think, you mean justify my calling his/their actions TREASONOUS, tell me who's welfare, for want of a much better term, they have in mind when conspiring with a foreign gov't to lure yet more unskilled, illiterate masses for the purpose of expanding the welfare state, insuring perpetual generations of low information voters. Not mine, and likely not yours. Who is the president supposed to be working for??? Foreign nationals!!!??? ------------------------------ On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 9:15 PM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >On 2/7/2013 8:54 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> >> An add to the mix an administration who is running ads in Mehico explaining how people can get food stamps and whatnot once they get here. Can you say, anyone, high crimes and misdemeanors? Too difficult? How's about TREASON!!! > >[Citation needed.] >

13 years, 6 months

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USB trace analysis

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I was trying to find the old Macintosh software SCSI analyzer program, and came across this (unrelated other than they were analyzing USB SCSI traffic) http://vusb-analyzer.sourceforge.net/ Looks pretty cool for analyzing USB traffic.

13 years, 6 months

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Apollo 700-series boxes available

by cclist＠sydex.com

Spotted on Erik's VC Forum: 2 HP Apollo series 700 3 HP Apollo 715/75 http://bit.ly/WPKy5l --Chuck

13 years, 6 months

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My ZX-Spectrum on YouTube

by terry＠webweavers.co.nz

For those who might be interested, a freshly-minted YouTube video this time on another bastion of British retro-computing, my iconic ZX-Spectrum. http://youtu.be/cCqXqYRlQt0 Cheers Terry (Tez)

13 years, 6 months

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Vintage era

by paul0926＠comcast.net

If you are interested in the perspective of hackers, look for this book "Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution" for a good contrast. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Murray McCullough To: cctalk Sent: 2013-02-07 07:58:28 +0000 Subject: Vintage era I was reading ?The Fire in the Valley? ? the story of how the computer became a mass-consumer product - and the wrestling of control by experimenters & hobbyists of computing technology from elites - the computer cognoscenti. This beginning age(1970s-80s) saw the rise of the technocrat, the nerd, the geek who revolutionized technology but who today are the computing elite and control our technocratic society for good or ill. Vintage computers, the beginning era, has been subsumed by a technology so rapidly advancing it threatens to overwhelm us yet I still look back with fondness and I hope we can revive some of that era?s experimentation if only to validate a true hacker ethic. Murray--

13 years, 6 months

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TK-50 tape compatibility

by cclist＠sydex.com

I remember that the old DEC TK-50 DLT drives would leave me red-faced at the end of the day. However, I'm wondering what the *latest* drive (i.e. most advanced) is that can still *read* the old TK50 tapes? Can one go as far as a TK85? Later? I suspect that a DLT IV drive wouldn't stand a chance. Anyone have experience with this? --Chuck

13 years, 6 months

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"AppleSearch" software needed...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I'm looking for an Apple enterprise product called "AppleSearch". The version I'm looking for is preferably "1.5", but others might be O.K. Please contact me off list if you have questions or have a copy of this product. Sorry for this crass "commercial" request - but, hey, there is a nice bounty available ;) Thanks! Lyle -- Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

13 years, 6 months

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Burroughs Redactor II (fwd)

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

A Burroughs Redactor II is available in the Maryland area. Please see message below and reply to original sender. Reply-to: NaTasha Morgan-Lipscomb <tashatravels at msn.com> -- Sellam Ismail VintageTech ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap...The truth is always simple. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:26:55 -0500 From: NaTasha Morgan-Lipscomb <tashatravels at msn.com> To: vcf at vintage.org Subject: Burroughs Redactor II Good Afternoon, Re: Burroughs Redactor II I have the above referenced computer that we found in our home when we purchased it. We would like to have it appraised or sold but don't know where to start. Would you know of any resource that could possibly assist us in an appraisal or sale? Thank You in advance NaTasha & Christian Lipscomb 443.766.9281 cell, 410.701.7010 work

13 years, 6 months

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Selling a DEC RX-02 Floppy Drive

by filipmaj＠gmail.com

I am selling a DEC RX-02 Floppy drive. I don't have anything to test it with currently so selling AS-IS. Seems to turn on no problem though. Selling for $400 + shipping or best offer. Seems to be half of what the going rate is on Ebay. Images here: http://imgur.com/a/LjTLw Please email me at filipmaj at gmail.com if interested.

13 years, 6 months

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Big Iron for sale

by barythrin＠gmail.com

I reposted for you on the vintage computer forums too (if you get some replies from names you don't recognise here). Best of luck! - John from vcf past

13 years, 6 months

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Hazeltine 1500 on ebay

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

BTW, that Hazeltine 1500 is mine. :( Still working on this. I've gone silent only because I am inundated with legal issues presently, working my way through each. -- Sellam Ismail VintageTech ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap...The truth is always simple.

13 years, 6 months

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strange Honeywell system

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 7:24 AM PST Allison wrote: >On 02/05/2013 07:03 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> >> interesting if you live on the west coast >> >> somewhat less so when you live in New Jersey. >> especially when you have no knowledge of its innards. the seller speaks of the possibility of it having a rare IBM processor. some people consider the 486 rare >> >I find that last statement funny. There will always be people who "grew up" in different times and environments who find different things interesting. I see no reason to disparage them. Sometimes you just like something. I am most definitely not a DEC *minded* person. But I used to like and kind of miss my old DEC 486 pizza.box. And my statement was meant to be funny in case it seemed vague. >I have a small format (for 1990) 386sx/25 board I keep for emergencies. >I have a SIIG box with a 386/16 for a router. >I have two Dell 486sx (486dx/66 without external cache) pizza boxes >and a coffee can of 286/386/486 chips I think I haven't tossed yet. > >The 486 PCs and the 386 board are saved as I need them to use for >ISA-8 and ISA-16 board hosts. Other wise I consider them junk >and they will be tossed as junk if and when they die. Heavens please get rid of some of that trash Allison! Just save me any multibus boards you happen to have. It's always nice hearing from Allison. And though she for the most part holds Intel in contempt, I did actually hear her say some of my pseudos were on the cool side. >Allison

13 years, 6 months

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Big Iron for sale

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I am divesting myself of most of my large computers. I am soliciting offers for the next week or so and will sell once I receive an offer that is mutually deemed fair. Pick-up location is Stockton, California. While I would prefer local pickup, I can be convinced to palletize for freight shipping with high dollar offers. Symbolics 3600 - two separate units, both I believe are complete. I'm not sure if I have the monitor and keyboard for them anymore. IBM 3420 - two separate units. One fell off a truck and is heavily damaged but restorable with TLC IBM 3803 - to go with the 3420s PDP 8a Computer Automation Naked Mini - may not have front panel Honeywell DPS-6 - two units Plexus P75 - complete and should be working Microdata Royal E - complete and should be working. Includes terminals and keyboards Data Point Dual Carthridge Disc Drive Nuclear Data 9900 - just a rack and drive. VAX 9000 compatible. Slightly damaged. HP 2116C - complete and should be working PDP 11/44 - complete and should be working PDP 11/34 - complete system with RK05, RK05f, dual 8" floppy drives, serial bank, rack DEC TX78U (TA78) LMI Lambda - complete and should be working. Comes with documentation library Four Phase System IV/90 - poor shape but one of few surviving examples Diablo 30 carthridge disc drive and Nicolet 294 Disc Memory Coupler in a rack Tektronix Type 551 scope on rolling cart IBM Scalabe Power Parallel System 9076 See photos here: http://vintagetech.com/photos/bigiron/ -- Sellam Ismail VintageTech ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap...The truth is always simple.

13 years, 6 months

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DEC manx volunteer(s) needed

by legalize＠xmission.com

Hi, There's a large amoung of DEC material on bitsavers alone that isn't indexed into manx. I'm looking for a volunteer who would be willing to get this information entered into manx. Before you roll your eyes thinking how much work it would be, I've mostly automated the process because the URL structure on bitsavers incorporates most of the metadata that manx wants: - company - publication date - publication title - part number I've also automated the process of even entering/pasting the bitsavers URl from which to extract this information by scraping up the Whatsnew.txt file from bitsavers and building a list of documents not yet known to manx. So while the process does take some manual effort, it is mostly checking over the data extracted by the URL wizard. Information can also be entered from other sources, but I don't have as much automation worked out for those sites. If you've been monitoring the RSS feed of new documents on manx, you may have noticed that the documents added are focused on terminals and graphics. That is because those are the documents that most interest me. Given the large quantity of DEC documentation not yet recorded in manx, several people could easily work on adding it focusing on their area of interest/expertise, as I have done with terminals and graphics. If you're interested in helping out, please email me off list. Thanks! -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

13 years, 6 months

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Catweasel Z-II "S-Class" IDE Controller ( Amiga 2000 )

by gerardcjat＠free.fr

NOT affiliated with seller ! In Germany, with English text , 25 ? DHL International delivery : http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330868483890&ssPageName=A… ** IF ** of interest for someone on the Cctalk file ... >>"" In this auction I am offering: for Amiga2000 Catweasel Z-II S-Class Latest version of the IDE and floppy controller for Amiga2000! Combination of IDE Controller Buddha and Catweasel floppy controller. Finally use HD floppy and IDE hard drives in Amiga 2000! I offer an IDE to Dual Compact Flash Adapter in addition! Card is in good condition and works perfectly! "" <<

13 years, 6 months

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strange Honeywell system

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

interesting if you live on the west coast somewhat less so when you live in New Jersey. especially when you have no knowledge of its innards. the seller speaks of the possibility of it having a rare IBM processor. some people consider the 486 rare

13 years, 6 months

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Corvus Omninet for Apple ///?

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

Does anyone have a Corvus Transporter card for Apple ///? I have been able to get my hands on the software and documentation and had originally thought the Apple II Transporter would work. Unfortunately it doesn't, so I suspect there may have been a distinct version for that machine. If anyone knows for sure, would appreciate information. Even better, I'd like to purchase or trade for such a card! Steve --

13 years, 6 months

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networking via SCSI?

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

Speaking of Ampro, does anyone have a later one, v40 or 80186, but in particular the pal chip and the means to read off the contents?

13 years, 6 months

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My Kaypro II on Youtube

by terry＠webweavers.co.nz

My Kaypro II on YouTube. http://youtu.be/2LO6Pv2IXxc for those that might be interested. Terry (Tez)

13 years, 6 months

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ebay IBM system/360 and DEC manuals ending soon.

by tmfdmike＠gmail.com

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:38:36 -0800 > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > <rant> > > To let people know.. > > I have been buying these, scanning them, and putting them on bitsavers > and have had the same dick running them up to $20-$25 each time in the last second. > > If I DON'T do this, they will disappear in that black hole of the "mainframe collector" > > I don't know who this prick is, but I'm getting REALLY sick of this. > > </rant> If this is the same guy who was doing this on ebay years ago... didn't he have an ID something like sndshq (or some approximately similar combination)? I see to recall deliberately putting a 'teaser' item on ebay, and needless to say he was all over me like a rash with questions... IIRC he was from somewhere up north east... maybe New Hampshire? I have a hole, but it's utterly non-black. CHM have some clout; do you think there's any mileage in you trying to get IBM to re-open their archives. ISTR ?Jay Maynard? telling me years ago that they used to be open and helpful, then about ten years ago got locked down tight due to lawyer-driven BS. (that's getting so common now I think it needs an acronym of its own... LDBS?) (oh and the entire Corestore collection is now in New Zealand, for those who don't know! Film at 11 :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

13 years, 6 months

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Hazeltine 1500 on ebay

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 10:44 AM PST Adrian Stoness wrote: >few yrs back found a pallet of them left outside to rot by the time i found >them the damage had been done though :( sun bleached water soaked I wouldn't always be so quick to discard or rule out the usefulness of water soaked sun bleached items especially if they're rare. If only there is the possibility to salvage parts. Water "damge" might not amount to much anyway. I feel I need to repeat this. I knew a guy who worked for Hazeltine years ago working on IFF systems or something. Never knew until recently they manufactured commercial items, but that might just be an assumption.

13 years, 6 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On Feb 4, 2013, at 12:00 PM, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > I suspect that your "RL21" handler isn't really configured to address > drive 1. > > There's a known issue with OS/8 handler mapping that can cause issues, > but that doesn't look like your problem based on the mappings. What > does "RESORC /E" show? > -Rick Excerpted: (there are also the expected SYS, DSK, BAT, TTY and this build has RXA0 and RXA1 and DTA0 installed although unfortunately I don't have the hardware). # NAME TYPE MODE SIZ BLK KIND U V ENT USER 10 (6442) 37 RWF 22+ A 120 11 (6542) 37 RWF 22+ A 114 12 (6642) 37 RWF 22+ A 107 13 (6742) 37 RWF 22+ A 100 14 (6443) 37 RWF 23+ A 120 15 (6543) 37 RWF 23+ A 114 16 (6643) 37 RWF 23+ A 107 17 (6743) 37 RWF 23+ A 100 So, apparently eight distinct User types for the A-D drives on disk 0 and disk 1. Not sure what the "ENT" column is, but they seem to have the same pattern repeated twice? Is this normal? thanks Charles

13 years, 6 months

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Hazeltine 1500 on ebay

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 5:11 PM PST William Donzelli wrote: >> In the 40s and 50s, I wonder if Hazeltine made more off their patents than >> actually selling product. > >No, probably not. Hazeltine was a pretty big defense contractor during >World War 2, the 1950s, and beyond. Grumman was a ginormous defense contractor on Long Island. Yet at some points every jamoke with a drill press was making parts for them. The final product was *all* Grumman though. They weeded a lot of their suppliers out over time.just in time to close up shop.

13 years, 6 months

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strange Honeywell system

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

in reality even if it did have only a 386 or 486 I would still consider it interesting. I still miss my old HP 386 tower server thing.

13 years, 6 months

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Hazeltine 1500 on ebay

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

>Hazeltine was a very old radio company, going back to the 1920s, although based around design/patents/licensing rather than manufacturing, originally at least. > >Terminals were an offshoot or sideline. Very little of which were likely made by them anyway. But what do I know. F'rinstance the Sperry ?/Leading Edge Model M was wholly a Mitsubishi product. Even the monitors were M*, and at least 1 model externally bore a striking resemblance to the TRS-80 CM-1 used w/the model.2000. Like anyone cares.

13 years, 6 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8? (was: cctalk Digest, Vol 114, Issue 4)

by rick＠rickmurphy.net

At 04:47 PM 2/5/2013, Bob Vines wrote: >Hopefully some of this helps. I have a couple of RL02 drives that I'd >like to try with my PDP-8/E one of these days. (Assuming that I can >get an "-8"-formatted pack.) There's no format difference. There's a bit called the "mode" bit (software selected) which selects 12-bit mode or 8 bit mode for the RL8A. In 12-bit mode, a sector contains 128 12-bit words or 256 8-bit bytes - 64 bytes are wasted in 12-bit mode. (Also, with 12-bit mode, you can't DMA more than one sector at a time.) I don't know for sure, but I'll bet that OS/8 runs in 12-bit mode. You *do* have to run a magic formatter program on the '8 that fixes up the bad block map into where OS/8 expects it. As far as the jumper Charles is referring to - there's a pair of jumpers on the RL8A that need to be configured. W8 is installed to support the RL02 (W8), W9 installed for the RL01. Only one of those jumpers are installed at a time. If the zero drive is working, W8 is installed. What this does (when W9 is installed) is to limit the track delta register to the RL01 size. -Rick

13 years, 6 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8? (was: cctalk Digest, Vol 114, Issue 4)

by bobvines00＠gmail.com

I forwarded this RL02 vs OS/8 question to Charles Lasner, his response follows the original question. [snip] > Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 13:45:46 -0600 > From: Charles <charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Using two RL02 drives on OS/8? > Message-ID: <7E1278E1-BA46-45AD-99F6-FB38443AC1A0 at centurytel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I'm trying to find a manual detailing the operation of an RL02 under > OS/8. The Bitsavers archive only has manuals new enough through the > RL01. > Can someone point me to the proper documentation? > > Meanwhile, although several years ago I did manage to build an OS/8 > system with two RL02's on SIMH and transfer that disk image to an RL02 > pack, and BUILD shows the appropriate device names, when the second > drive (1) is accessed, the data actually comes from the boot drive > (0). Just now getting around to playing with it again. > Version: OS/8 KBM V3T, CCL V3E. > > The relevant portion of the BUILD printout: (I didn't have enough > handlers to add the "leftover" E drives anyway) > > R2SY: *SYS R20A > RL20: *R2A0 *R2B0 *R2C0 *R2D0 > RL21: *R2A1 *R2B1 *R2C1 *R2D1 > DSK=RL20:R2A0 > > I can even unload the heads on Drive 1 and ask for a DIR of its > logical drives, and not only does OS/8 not hang or at least give a > "NOT FOUND" error, it gives me the data from the corresponding logical > drives on Drive 0! ASSigning DSK to the other drive doesn't make any > difference... > > What am I doing wrong? > thanks > Charles > [snip] > End of cctalk Digest, Vol 114, Issue 4 > ************************************** ********** >From CJL: I can't guarantee this is the problem, but I do see a potential driver head count problem here: Let's start with the weirdness that is OS/8 RL support in the RL01: To support the RL01, there is a controller card jumper to set. I never found out EXACTLY what it does, but I can describe that constrained to the only rational answers. The RL02 has twice as many tracks to manually seek over [! Wonderful for real-time, since it doesn't interrupt! Ask the -11 people about creating RL seek-check tasks.] Thus, on the RL01 [which I suspect cannot be supported on the DECmate I's obscure RL278 spec'd for RL02 generally] you have to make sure that the proper bits get to the controller, which apparently can stupidly step an RL01 into never-never land if you let it. The programming is such that you create the signed difference between where you apparently are and where you want to be and send out a step the head over the direction indicated and number of steps. Thus, the arithmetic high-order bit has to become ignored. Thus, what the jumper does is obviously one of the following: 1) Ignore it; you only see the rest of the bits in the drive. I think this is least likely. 2) Set the bit to the same value as the one immediately to the right regardless of what the instruction says to do. This is a signed quantity because it could be a seek to lesser or further out as required, etc. In any case, this is an RL02 question, so we can table that factoid; I just want to know because it does mean that software could be then written to work with mixed situations of RL01 and RL02 on the same controller the way the -11 does it. Obviously they were told to make the bit being ignored/adjusted the correct value from the beginning; I think many knew the RL02 was not that far in the future when the RL01 was released, so their software designs were cognizant of the then future, etc. Unfortunately, it is a known quantity that much of the RL software is sloppy and can be counted upon to not be counted upon regardless of what the correct thing to do is, thus this stupid compatibility jumper, etc. [I never wrote a P?S/8 handler for it, thus I don't know. Moreover, OS/8's handlers are probably the most compromised for R-L devices; any actual correct performance with the switch off for RL01 would be a happy accident; no effort was expended to get it right; the jumper was known the exist. In P?S/8, I don't have the handler limitations, thus could get that right as well as a whole lot of other things; OS/8 is an awful kludge and incompatible with all other usages of RL01 and RL02, etc.] All that said, here is how you get it to work: First of all, not only do you have to perform a general formatting diagnostic that then builds a collection of bad block tables. [I believe there is a "factory" master table to never erase, and then some newer table to add in found-in-the-field more bad spots, etc.] All of that is done in an 8-bit orientation. To my knowledge, it is difficult at best to access this data in byte mode in one pass, so clearly 2:1 interleave is part of the design discussion regardless. In any case, it is the case of OS/8 using 12-bit mode. OS/8 cannot access the real bad block tables. Thus, there is an OS/8 crutch secondary program. The RL01 is divvied up into "wedges" of unequal size. Two larger ones and another one 1/2 the size of the other two. I have no idea how they account for this; in OS/8 PIP there is supposed to be a table where by internal logical device number you patch in the device size for directory zeroing purposes, etc. Thus, I guess the small wedgie is considered a different logical device despite it possibly being part of a same or similar non-system handler set [system handler too tight] with the same general I/O code just handling a different wedge of the disk, etc. They got something that is viable, but I am not sure; it could be examined assuming you have a system where PIP knows what to do certainly, etc. The wedges and the little wedgie are each evaluated. As a logical set of sectors in order to handle itself, there is a restriction that is pretty stupid: They insist that the very highest sector of the entire wedge/wedgie is error-free else OS/8 cannot use the pack! However, only the inner-most tracks are guaranteed error free from the factory because that's where the *REAL* bad block table[s] is/are. Expecting a block to actually be good when it is potentially in the main table[s] marked bad is preposterous, And I have heard of packs hand-picked to allow OS/8 family versions to like it because you must relegate it to something else that knows how to play with the bad blocks the way the big boys do, etc. So, assuming that risky situation is somehow OK, that becomes a twelve-bit-oriented record of the bad blocks in the format of which logical sectors of that wedge/wedgie are known bad. This little table is written in the highest logical record of the wedge/wedgie. No handler is maximum size because the table is reserving that last one assuming all are error-free. I would also suspect that there is no way to support it unless a few of the first of them [again, in this logical order of where in the wedge/wedgie they are, etc.] are known good. Certainly applies to the bootable system device one[s]. The handler proceeds to calculate the sector the caller is accessing. For all entries in the table prior to that desired logical record, the record that is ultimately used is bumped by one to "straddle" the bad spot. Thus, we now have the corrected logical record in the wedge/wedgie we want. Notice that this process has to be repeated for any sector in the call since your neighbor could be on the other side of the sinkhole so to speak. [I can see that physically adjacent sectors could all be bad, even with a 2:1 interleave; physically 3 or 4 in a row for example.] Then the handler converts that to the physicality of actual track/head/sector and does the intended read or write operation, etc. Go back and repeat all of the above as necessary from the original caller's marching orders, etc. The ordering of the sectors is through a 2:1 interleave obviously, but remember, all the wedges/wedgie that you don't "own" are in the way in the rotational latency sense. One revolution traverses all physical sectors, but you only get at best 1/2 wedge's forward progress [or worse, one half wedgie, again I mean the one that is 1/2 the size of the two larger ones.] Thus, the overall overhead is gross as the throughput is far less than implied by 2:1 interleave. [Historical note: Instead of playing with this crap when it was released, I was using the DSD-240/Western Dynex drive. 5 MB cartridges removable looking like RL disks superficially, but not servo-driven, rather a better mechanism than an RK05 that admittedly needed alignment but held it quite well. More importantly, it was over another 5.0 MB fixed disk. Thus, with some "Tower of Hanoi" juggling, you can completely back up everything on two 5 MB packs and it is damn fast. DMA with 1:1 interleave, all sectors addressed truly in physical order, a smart controller, no bad blocks whatsoever, smaller logical sectors so each transfer was one or more PDP-8-sized page blocks so completely at home in either P?S/8 or OS/8 with elegant and easy to write handlers for both systems. The command as well as the data are initiated by DMA and then it just does it automatically with a done and error status after-the-fact so low interrupt overhead, etc. In short, absolutely no problems whatsoever. [Note: Part of the concepts that implemented the DSD-240 were incorporated in the MDC8 >from CESI; I wrote all the handlers and support utilities.] The media guaranteed to be error free and delivering the promise; what a comparison between elegance and DEC's awful crap; this was well on the way more than merely the begiinning of the end; it was already part of the accelerating slide to eventual oblivion.] So much for the RL01. Note that gets you three handlers for the entirety of one disk with one handler's range 1/2 the size of the other two. That gets you three handler entries in BUILD if this is an RL01. But what of the RL02? Well, the wedgie is still smaller than the other two, but it doubles in size to be the equivalent on the RL02 of a wedge on an RL01. However, the RL02 wedges are twice the size that OS/8 can handle. Thus, an analogy to the RK8E/RK05 can be drawn. Each pack cannot be addressed with one handler; you need two of them each about 2/3-3/4 of the maxed-out OS/8 size. In this case we are talking about a superwedge that has to be logical cut in half as well, back to the equivalent of one RL01 wedge each. Thus, the RL02 gets you FIVE handlers all each addressing the same amount of physical space. >From the BUILD output, it suggests groupings of four, not five. It would appear that there is potential anomaly there. The source code for the handler will reveal what BUILD is told about the device. Clearly that problem of logical device for PIP directory zeroing purposes goes away as they are all know the same logical size, just that there are more of them, thus there needs to be 5 build-oriented entries in these handlers as opposed to three as in the RL01 case. I suspect the confusion comes from there. Maybe you have some mixed RL01 and RL02 handlers confusing things, etc. P?S/8 has nearly NINE pages of code to handle system devices, as opposed to OS/8's only two where the first if a system handler is also not really a complete page with regard to code for the device as opposed to reserved locations "around" the handler code, etc. That concept applies pretty equally to both systems [but I think P?S/8 is slightly tighter.] The second page is actually not completely available either as the field 2 code reserves the last 4 words for OS/8 BATCH. [Come on, folks! The DS/8 people created what they called "HASP". Two attaboys to anyone who can explain the historical meaning of the name from an older non-DEC world. Houston, do we have a problem?] In any case, it got you a batch in 8K, so no reserved words and no 12K requirement at all, etc. And for those who may not have heard, P?S/8 BATCH is based on the original R-L Monitor System; both run BATCH in 4K!] But P?S/8 system handlers get EIGHT complete additional pages for their purposes alone. Clearly there is room to read the REAL bad-block tables and massage them as needed to allow sane bad-block handling. No wedge crutches, no dependency on iffy sectors, etc. As these packs age, I suspect OS/8-worthy ones will become less and less available physically. If you can honor the real tables, you can tolerate the true intended counts. In OS/8, I think each wedge/wedgie is limited to something like 16 total errors there, etc. In time, they will not be usable for the OS/8 kludge [admittedly eventually perhaps not usable at all!] ********** Hopefully some of this helps. I have a couple of RL02 drives that I'd like to try with my PDP-8/E one of these days. (Assuming that I can get an "-8"-formatted pack.) Bob

13 years, 6 months

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Hazeltine 1500 on ebay

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

great price too ------------------------------ On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 9:00 AM PST Richard wrote: >Someone was just asking for one of these... ><http://www.ebay.com/itm/261165631166> > >-- >"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> > The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> > The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> > Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

13 years, 6 months

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Hazeltine 1500 on ebay

by legalize＠xmission.com

Someone was just asking for one of these... <http://www.ebay.com/itm/261165631166> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

13 years, 6 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I'm trying to find a manual detailing the operation of an RL02 under OS/8. The Bitsavers archive only has manuals new enough through the RL01. Can someone point me to the proper documentation? Meanwhile, although several years ago I did manage to build an OS/8 system with two RL02's on SIMH and transfer that disk image to an RL02 pack, and BUILD shows the appropriate device names, when the second drive (1) is accessed, the data actually comes from the boot drive (0). Just now getting around to playing with it again. Version: OS/8 KBM V3T, CCL V3E. The relevant portion of the BUILD printout: (I didn't have enough handlers to add the "leftover" E drives anyway) R2SY: *SYS R20A RL20: *R2A0 *R2B0 *R2C0 *R2D0 RL21: *R2A1 *R2B1 *R2C1 *R2D1 DSK=RL20:R2A0 I can even unload the heads on Drive 1 and ask for a DIR of its logical drives, and not only does OS/8 not hang or at least give a "NOT FOUND" error, it gives me the data from the corresponding logical drives on Drive 0! ASSigning DSK to the other drive doesn't make any difference... What am I doing wrong? thanks Charles

13 years, 6 months

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The VCFSE Press Release

by david＠classiccomputing.com

Hi there, If I might please share with everyone on these lists about our upcoming BIG show! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Announcing the First Ever Vintage Computer Festival Southeast The original Vintage Computer Festival was founded by Sellam Ismail and held in Pleasanton, California during October, 1997. Now, finally, the southeast region of the US gets its very own! ROSWELL, Georgia ? February 4, 2013 ? Vintage Computer Festival Southeast ? a public celebration of computer history and nostalgia ? will be held on Saturday & Sunday, April 20 & 21. Our mission remains the same as that very first show: The main mission of the Vintage Computer Festival is to promote the preservation of "obsolete" computers by offering attendees a chance to experience the technologies, people and stories that embody the remarkable tale of the computer revolution. We will educate and entertain! - A large premier exhibit will welcome each attendee as they enter the festival - The Apple Pop-Up Museum which tells the story of how a small start-up company, founded in a garage by two young friends, became the leading consumer electronics and personal computer company in the world. The exhibit displays an exclusive collection of game-changing Apple personal computers and consumer electronic products while presenting the history of the company since its founding in 1976 to the present. An Apple I, the first disk ][ and controller card, original apple ][, original Lisa and even a Xerox Alto are among the rare artifacts to be displayed, plus much, much more. Within the 6,000 square feet of display space that this premier exhibit occupies will be the following rooms: Pre-Apple Room, Apple I Room, apple ][ Room, Turmoil Years Room, No Founders Left Room, Jobs? Come Back Room, Ive?s Colors Room, iPod / iPhone / iPad Room, The Timeline Lounge and Apple?s Present to the Future Room. - Dozens of exhibitors will be present from all over the region, plus many from other parts of the country. A large variety of historic computers will be represented in the exhibit hall for live demonstrations by their owners. - A vintage game station will be available for children and adults to play classic games on classic computer and game console systems. - Two retrocomputing kit building classes will be held, plus continual, inexpensive introduction to soldering classes. - Many luminous speakers and special presenters are now being scheduled. The VCFSE is hosted and produced by the Computer Museum of America and the Atlanta Historical Computing Society. One-day adult tickets to the VCFSE are $10, with a two-day pass for $15. Children ages 17 and younger are admitted free when accompanied by a parent or guardian. For hours, location, and other details, please visit vintage.org/2013/southeast Contact: David Greelish, Director, Vintage Computer Festival Southeast 1.0 david at classiccomputing.com | 770-733-6702 Best, David Greelish - Computer Historian, Writer, Podcaster & Speaker - Founder of the Atlanta Historical Computing Society http://about.me/davidgreelish Director of the Vintage Computer Festival Southeast 1.0 - 4/20 & 4/21, 2013 http://vintage.org/2013/southeast/

13 years, 6 months

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Commodore Superpet video problem -- ideas?

by rob＠bitscience.ca

Thanks for the suggestions. I've looked for visible arcs as carefully as I can, and have been unable to see any. I've cleaned and resoldered the connections to the transformer, and removed and cleaned the anode connection to the CRT. I don't know if you can remove the anode connection at the flyback end, so I haven't fiddled with that. Is it reasonable to assume at this point that the arc is *inside* the flyback cover? Is it possible that a component failure outside the transformer could cause arcing in the flyback, or does it mean that the flyback itself is at fault? The flyback transformer appears to be unobtainium (although if someone knows different, I'd love to hear about it). I guess I'm in the market for a PET video board.... Thanks again, Rob

13 years, 6 months

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Available S-100 PCBs

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi There are ten (10) S-100 ConsoleIO PCBs and nine (9) S-100 LAVA PCBs still available http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Console%20IO%20Board/Console%20 IO%20Board.htm http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Lava-10%20Board/LAVA-10%20Board .htm These PCBs are $20 each plus $3 shipping in the US and $6 elsewhere. Please send a PayPal to LYNCHAJ at YAHOO.COM and I will send your boards right away! Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

13 years, 6 months

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ADM-3A reminiscences - was Re: more shameless classic trafficking (NOT Sellam's stuff)

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message ----- Message: 13 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:28:26 -0800 From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> On 01/27/2013 09:46 PM, Richard wrote: >> Come on guys... the Terminals wiki is almost a year old now. You >> should always earch there first :) > ... You don't even list Fujitsu. > --Chuck ----- Reply: Nary a mention of Falco either, for that matter... mike

13 years, 6 months

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ebay IBM system/360 and DEC manuals ending soon.

by barythrin＠gmail.com

Are you able to use the chm budget at least or perhaps some grant?

13 years, 6 months

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