A volunteer has come up for the hosting space and software (all open source,
Linux)
I have the data, and will put it into uploadable formats, and provide
templates for others who want to contribute also.
I am NOT a php programmer, so a volunteer is needed who will design the site
and create a script to do the searches and display the results.
Any volunteers?
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6114 - Release Date: 02/18/13
Morning all,
I thought I'd try and get the ol' Epson QX-10 running as a dumb terminal.
AFAIK, there's nothing on the 'standard' set of disks to do this (e.g.
valdocs has the 'mail' program which is aware of the serial port and which
I think can talk via a direct link rather than a modem - but I think its
functionality is all quite high-level and there's no 'terminal' mode).
So... MEX looks like a possibility, and an overlay for the QX-10 seems to
be available (although I'm not sure how much work is involved in merging
them yet). Does anyone know of any other options[1] which will work with
the QX-10's serial hardware? Or, does anyone happen to have a QX-10 enabled
version of MEX archived already?
[1] does CP/M abstract serial hardware into a set of common calls, or is
that outside its scope?
cheers
Jules
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com>
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:22:04 +1300
> Subject: Re: cctech Digest, Vol 114, Issue 23
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 09:21:07 -0500
>> From: Michael Thompson <michael.99.thompson at gmail.com>
>> To: cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>
>> Subject: PDP-9 Restoration at the RICM
>
>> We need to fix the paper tape reader so we can load some of the diags.
>> We are a long way from connecting the TC-59 and the TU20.
>> I suspect that getting the TU20 working will be a challenge.
>
> How are you fixed for doc & spares?
>
> I have a TC59 on one of my pdp-15s - I have doc and I think I have
> some spare boards...
>
> Mike
Bitsavers has the TC59 Instruction Manual and Schematics.
I have an HP 7975A (TU20) tape deck manual on the way. I will scan it
and send it to Al.
I have not been able to find any documentation on the rack of
electronics in the bottom of the TU20 cabinet.
We don't have the I/O cables to connect the TC59 to the PDP-9.
We have some spare generic B, R, and S modules.
We probably don't have any spares for the special modules for the
PDP-9 and TC59.
Any offers of help are gratefully accepted.
--
Michael Thompson
(Think I may have goofed on my earlier post (excess formatting))
Hiya,
Just wondering if anyone has a Xerox 820-II with CP/M 2.2C that already
has Kermit installed, that could make a Image Disk of it and upload it
someplace? I have Dave Dunfield's Image Disk program, and I've
successfully transferred several programs to the machine this way, but
I'd like to have a comm program to transfer stuff, as I'm using a
modified cable from the existing 8" floppy drive to an old win98/DOS PC
for transfers, and I don't like to disconnect and connect those 50 pin
edge connectors on and off the boards too many times.
I actually have the .HEX files for the machine, but I tried to get them
transferred with 22disk, and it doesn't seem to like 8" drives too much
(ver. 1.42 or 1.44). I also tried the host terminal transfer, but hex
files seem to wreak havoc and don't transfer properly. So I'm kind of
stuck between a rock and a hard place. If anyone can help out, it would
be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Is anyone interested in hosting an online cross reference for components
both small and major?
I have a fairly large (3000+ line items) of cross reference for hard drives,
CDROM, CDRW, NIC cards, video cards, etc for computers and servers that I
would be willing to contribute in spreadsheet format.
Also MANY hard copy sheets of old printouts for parts that go into HP and
IBM servers.
Cindy Croxton
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6114 - Release Date: 02/18/13
Hi all,
Tony, thanks for your input, we will check the PSU on Thursday when we
get to the machine again.
as Christian pointed out, the problem is not so much the pure amount of
components but the puzzle
game of identifying them since they have been relabled.
Whats definitely worse when comparing to out old VT100 is that the DEC
manual has one complete definitive
service manual that covers all schemes and logic. For our NOVA i failed
to find a comparable thing. I have constantly to go
back an forward through all kinds of docs. Again I may be unable to find
a "real" service manual, if you know any let me know ;)
Bruce, I am looking forward hearing from you. It would be great if you
come up with anything helpful before Thursday
so we can check everything out.
Dwight, we are currently missing the exact schematics for our machine. I
hope thats where Bruce comes into play. The only
real schematics i found were for the NOVA 2, and a quick glimpse showed
that the machine is different (at least the
layout of parts). None the less we will keep our eye on the clock(s), i
guess it will do no harm and make our scopes and logic analyzers
happy ;)
>Jeff Jonas [jeffj at panix.com] wrote:
>> Long ago when SCSI was young
>> and just an 8 bit parallel bus,
>> Ampro littleboards advocated using the SCSI bus
>> for peer to peer communications, not just master/slave.
>>
>> Did anyone else do that?
>
>I don't remember the details but I'm fairly sure you could run
>OpenVMS clusters over SCSI at some point. I don't recall
>whether this was "just experimental" or whether it was
>actually supported in some configurations.
>
>Antonio
OpenVMS AXP and I64 support partial clustering over some SCSI adapters, but I wouldn't call it full
"networking". The machines are configured as multiple initiators and can send storage requests over
the SCSI bus to shared disks or arrays. You still have to have another connection (usually Ethernet)
for machine->machine cluster communication.
While I haven't looked into it much beyond pinouts, DEC produced the proprietary DSSI which, in some
cases, used SCSI ASICs - indicating that at some level it was similar (HSD-05 used, I think, an Emulex at
either side. Can't check now, but can later). The protocol was different, and cluster communications could
go over the DSSI bus between machines.
I'm not sure whether the lack of a similar setup for SCSI is more because of impossibility or because Fast/Gig
Ethernet came about and there was no longer much of a reason to not use the Ethernet for cluster comms.
Michael B. Brutman <mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com> wrote ..
> Hi,
>
> I made some changes in my TCP/IP code to make it behave better when
> packets are lost and it has to retransmit. The old code used to wait a
> fixed amount of time before retrying, which was painfully slow on a
> local connection. The new code is adaptive and should work much better
> on a wide range of connections.
>
> If you'd like to help me test it I have my PCjr running the mTCP FTP
> server with some old computer pictures, some software, and some text
> files. (I'll add more during the day to keep it interesting.) You can
> connect by going to the following address:
>
> ftp://96.42.84.69:2021/
Ok, I did a SITE STATS after I disconnected and it showed the server was lightly loaded (only me), so I went ahead and restarted wget. Will let it run and note any more hangs.
later,
jbdigriz
Up for auction at a local site : an IBM 10SR harddisk.
Might be rare enough to mention here. What was it used in anyway ?
no affiliation, too expensive in my opinion, etc etc, but there might be people looking for exactly this.
Jos
>> DG used in-house part numbers, very much like IBM and HP did. But I
>> haven't come across an equivalence list, so if you don't have the
>> schematics, you're lost.
> I vaguely seem to recall I had a DG equivalence list in the 90's.
Aha! Found a binder labeled "Components Guide" which has an equivalence list for some discretes in the back, and enough plagiarism from the standard IC manuals in the chip descriptions to help find the SSI/MSI original chips.
Same thing on the web at http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dg/015-000028-03_DG_Components_Guide…
I have an old G70 that's currently running HP-UX 11 (I had 11i v1 on it for a while - bit slow for that, and the patches would break it if you weren't careful). Anyway, I have a workstation for all my HP-UX 11 needs and was kicking around the idea of putting 10.20 or 9.04 on the beast to give it a bit more vintage flair, but all of the CDs I have and have seen have been 10.20 for the 700s. Anyone seen a 10.20 for 800 around?
I actually had an Aviion 66 and a ?33? available
at work. No one wanted it. It's probably gone
now. Not Motorolla based though. It was a box full of Pentium Pros, IIRC.
At 05:18 PM 2/17/2013, you wrote:
>I saw what I believe was a Motorola based Aviion
>tower in a junk pile in a scrap pile a few years
>ago. I remember asking the list if anyone wanted
>me to retrieved it. There were no replies.
71 . [Computing] Hit the philistines three times
over the head with the Elisp reference manual.
--petonic at hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
a50mhzham at gmail.com ? N9QQB (amateur radio)
"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) ? Second Tops (Set Dancing) ? FIND ME ON FACEBOOK
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W ? Elevation 815' ? Grid Square EN53wc
LAN/Telecom Analyst ? Open-source Dude ? Musician
? Registered Linux User 385531
Hi Bruce,
thanks for taking your time to answer my mail! Sorry to leave out details,
i know how frustrating it is if people forget the important bits of
their problems ;)
I have (at least sighted) all documentation from bitsavers:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dg/
and read a good amount of code and documentation of the simh project
(because i would like to build a media emulator for this machine
later....maybe)
My main problem is that most of the stuff from bitsavers seems to be for
newer machines
that have a builtin ROM? My machine does not have the program load
option (at least theres no switch for it)
and i was under the impression that all documentation i found somehow
just loaded a stored
program for the check procedures. Am i wrong with this?
So, in short i did not find any checkout procedure that looked adequate
for my machine so i just
hacked in some small asm programs that at least ran on the simulator.
Actually, the machine runs simple nop jumps at least
1: jmp 2
2: jmp 3
3: jmp 1
If i remember right when running this program it did not even hang
itself up (aka you could "stop" the machine). But i prepared the popular
"Hello World"
asm example to run without RDOS, and it obviously failed at least
because of the stuck ACs. I mean, how can you write
anything meaningful without using an AC? ;)
By "Reset" i mean pushing the reset switch up when pressing down for
"stop" does nothing. Again i may be subject to
interpret the meaning of STOP and RESET wrong. Clearly this machine is
confusing me ;)
We will examine the power supply for sure! It bugs me that we did not
think of that, since for now we only get
to the machine once per week. We may also have the option to take it
home though....
Also a friend of mine (which should be registering here soon, too - and
is more experienced than me when it comes to electronics)
said that the machine was acting strange when he first powered it up
after it sat for a week (aka cold). Maybe that points
to another aging/heat related/power supply problem.
Thanks for clarifying the internal structure of the machine. I was not
aware of that although i looked at alot bus pinouts,
transfer timings, signal descriptions etc. See above, confusing!
The third party board is unidentified for now. We tried to run without
it but saw the same error. We also already noticed that the
machine runs only with 2 CPU boards and nothing else, at least the PC
counts and the ACs still deposit and load.
I promise to take quality photos of anything you like once we get back
to the machine. I apologize for the bad photos my phone makes.
best regards
Alex
On 02/15/13 18:03, Bruce Ray wrote:
> G'day Alex -
>
> Your e.mail begs many question.
> What documentation do you have?
> Are you following the checkout procedures in the DG hardware manual?
> What "simple programs" can be run?
> What does "reset the machine" mean? Does it mean use the Reset
> switch, power off the machine, or...?
>
> The original Nova is an interesting whose big weakness was its power
> supply (mainly the higher-voltage memory Vinh and Vmem supply).
> Note that console accumulator functions exam and deposit may be
> functionally tested without having a memory board in the computer(!).
>
> As Al said, the Nova uses data paths of 4-bit "nibbles" for most
> internal transfers - even to and from main core memory(!). Your
> symptom appears a common single-bit failure mode.
>
> What is the 3rd party board?
>
>
> Bruce Ray
> Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc.
> bkr at WildHareComputers.com
>
> www.WildHareComputers.com
>
>
> www.NovasAreForever.org
>
Pulled it out, reseated the cables, checked the connections, plugged it into a big enough power supply,
and gave it another go.
Spun up, head load or lock solenoid clicked, waited about 4 seconds (no sound of seeking), spin down.
Sounds like the problem might be somewhere in the head positioning or voice coil/drive.
> DG used in-house part numbers, very much like IBM and HP did. But I
> haven't come across an equivalence list, so if you don't have the
> schematics, you're lost.
I vaguely seem to recall I had a DG equivalence list in the 90's. Or maybe confusing it with something else and my memory is just a red herring. Maybe Carl Friend has it?
Poly Paks always had lots of house-numbered TTL, I'm guessing floor sweepings from DG :-)
When I had to read DG schematics, if the part didn't have a standard number on it, it was usually pretty obvious from pinout or other parameters, what the standard part was.
By the time the Eclipse came along, those were just chock full with bipolar PROM's.
Tim
Ebay help, please.
How comes that things like that CANNOT BE FOUND thru EBAY Search(es ) ???
i.e. Take a part of the item description : "Wang VS7150"
Do an Ebay search ..... and ( at least for me, from France ) You won't get any hit !!!
Why ????
Is that an Ebay Bug ?? Is it known ??
( Of course, it is NOT the first time that I come across that kind of Ebay bug, that is why I am calling for help ;-) )
Will the gent who emailed me that he wanted these please email me again with
your address, etc.
Very sorry, but your previous email got lost in the shuffle.
Cindy Croxton
Electronics Plus
1613 Water Street
Kerrville, TX 78028
(830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax
AOL IM elcpls
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13
I have an old DG Aviion server here, has qty 4 Pentium Pro 200 chips. No
idea what the model number is, sorry. Local pickup only. Plenty of 4.3GB
SCSI hard drives to go in it. Probably still have some old memory to go in
it.
Cindy Croxton
Kerrville, TX
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 09:21:07 -0500
> From: Michael Thompson <michael.99.thompson at gmail.com>
> To: cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: PDP-9 Restoration at the RICM
> We need to fix the paper tape reader so we can load some of the diags.
> We are a long way from connecting the TC-59 and the TU20.
> I suspect that getting the TU20 working will be a challenge.
How are you fixed for doc & spares?
I have a TC59 on one of my pdp-15s - I have doc and I think I have
some spare boards...
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
Could be interesting .... As I am not too far ....
BUT ** IF ** system has Disk Pack Units ( Drives ). And, from the pics, I do not see any ???
Someone does ??
------------------------------
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 4:05 PM PST Toby Thain wrote:
>On 17/02/13 6:18 PM, ChrMinhis Tofu wrote:
>>
>> I saw what I believe was a Motorola based Aviion tower in a junk pile in a scrap pile a few years ago. I remember asking the list if anyone wanted me to retrieved it. There were no replies.
>>
>
>Damn, been looking for one forever.
>
>--T
unless I'm mistaken you're in Australia. and that being the case don't feel too bad this was hardly a museum quality piece. It's obvious rareness made me think someone could have used parts. But I'll keep you in mind if I should come across another.
Warren Stearns and I have been working on the PDP-9 at the RICM.
Yesterday we got the core memory working and started debugging the
processor. Quite a milestone for a 44 year old system.
All of the operate instructions seem to work. The JMP and ISZ
instructions are flakey, even when single stepping. This could be a
microcode problem, or a problem with the data multiplexers.
It is an interesting machine because it is microcoded with read-only
core memory. I am not sure why they used core for the microcode. Maybe
just a board with a bunch of diodes would have done the same thing and
would have been a lot simpler?
I am finding the schematics a challenge because they were created
before ANSI or IEC standard logic symbols were invented. Eventually I
will understand the symbology.
Some of the design is a little strange because you can abuse DTL logic
in ways that TTL will not tolerate. Lots of delay lines where you can
adjust the delay by changing wire-wrap on the backplane. Lots of pulse
amplifiers to improve fan-out and reshape signals.
You can read about our debugging progress here.
http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-9/pdp-9-restoration
We need to fix the paper tape reader so we can load some of the diags.
We are a long way from connecting the TC-59 and the TU20.
I suspect that getting the TU20 working will be a challenge.
--
Michael Thompson
>I wish I could get that NCR tower running. If anyone has any technical
>information on Series 3400 boxes I'd love to know. I need wiring
>diagrams and schematics for the power supply. It is a model 2113 that
>seems fine but, just doesn't turn on.
Perhaps it's just a solder crack. If you dismantle it enough to get at the pcb's bottom you could touch each blob with a soldering gun. I have fixed at least 1 unit that way (it worked after I did anyway).
Would anyone have a distribution for MRRT-11? I'd really like to find a
copy if anyone has it or can give me a pointer.
[What the heck is MRRT-11? "Memory Resident RT-11" - it's a hacked up
version of RT-11 that runs diskless. It was an official DEC product sold in
the late 70s.]
Thanks,
Bob Armstrong
I disagree. By comparison it lacks features compared to the Tandy. As does the Sanyo. They share enough to make the comparison. I wouldn't for instance make the same comparisons between the 1000 and 2000. They're just too different, but in many respects the model 2000 is a more powerful machine.
------------------------------
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 11:21 AM PST Michael B. Brutman wrote:
>On 2/14/2013 4:36 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
>>
>> Um yeah. The Peanut was an anemic T1000. It's a fun unit if you can live or partially deal with it's deficiencies. I'm just glad I.wasn't suckered into buying one back then. The Sanyos, Peanut, and T1000 had similar video modes. Must have been a creeping hardware virus anomole.
>>
>
>You have that backwards. The Tandy 1000 line was designed as a clone of
>the PCjr. And in many ways, they did not make the same mistakes that
>IBM made. For example, the location of the expandable video buffer ...
I didn't say the Tandy came before the Peanut. The P* was an anemic T1K, the T* was a P* on steroids, same thing.
Now what might be an interesting project would be to drop the guts of a Jr into a clone case and add functionality that way, instead of endlessly adding side carts. You'd need to piggyback off the 8088 socket in order to provide for ISA slots and other assorted madness. It's truly a pity no one offered such a solution when it would have mattered most...
Hi
Just came across this on eBay and thought it may be of interest to the
list:
WANG VS7150, VS7010, 4 x 3270 terminals - Diskpacks - early 1980s Computing
- Could be useful for Spares, Film Props, Collector, etc?
...
Main processor is a VS7150. This was attached to another large cabinet
which houses three large and heavy hard drives (believed to be 454MB).
There is also a VS7010 and a VS75E, the latter of which seems to be missing
some covers. There are also somewhere between 4 and 6 3270 terminals (see
photo of single unit). There are also a quantity of the removeable
disk-packs, which, if my memory serves me correctly, used to be 300MB.
There is also an old line-printer with acoustic hood and some boxes of the
flowline paper.
...
Current price is GBP 950 and it's available for collection in London (UK) -
seller is also willing to ship it anywhere in the UK.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221183449983
Not affiliated with the seller in any way.
-mj
--
Michael-John Turner
mj at mjturner.net <> http://mjturner.net/
------------------------------
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 11:19 AM PST Michael B. Brutman wrote:
>On 2/14/2013 3:16 PM, Jason McBrien wrote:
>>
>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
>> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:38 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Who were the worst of the worst?
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of the Tandy 1000 series were stinkers. Weird proprietary ISA
>> connectors, weird video adapters, weird versions of DOS that were
>> incompatible with most utility programs.
>>
>> Not a clone, but no list would be complete without the PC Jr. IMHO. What an
>> absolutely terrible machine. It was actually *less* PC-5150 compatible than
>> early clones.
>>
>>
>
>You contradict yourself. You say the PCjr was not a clone, and then you complain that it was less PC-5150 compatible than early clones.
>
>Note that the PCjr runs most later software just fine, assuming you have enough memory. I think what broke the Jr has more to do with people coding to specific BIOS locations, which broke any "near" clone. In 1983 when the PCjr was introduced that practice was rampant. By 1985 there were enough other "near clones" with some unique hardware out there so that the practice would break other machines too.
>
>Case in point: Nobody complains about the 5140 Convertible being not compatible enough, yet it has a lot of the same general problems as the PCjr. (Using the NMI for keyboard handling, mapping the keyboard scan codes, etc.)
>
>
>Mike
I'm sure Jason can speak for himself, but...
It would seem his point is since it was offered as a PC substitute, it should have been more "clone" then it was. While nowhere near a clone in the purest sense, an nearly exact copy, like a generic Taiwanese clone, it still should have been a more workable substitute for a PC. The AT for instance, while could be considered something of a steroidal clone, was worlds more compatible then the Jr. And add to that company's willingness to work around the AT's minor incompatibilities you had a ready upgrade solution to the PC.
I'm not that familiar with the JX but something like that should have been the Jr. Or the model 25s. Some expandability, in reality could have been a good secretary's unit (strangely the model 30 seems to have been used more along those lines).
Are there any recomendations for a converter that can take RGB with
sync on GREEN as input and produce a VGA (or HDMI) output suitable for
driving a modern LCD?
I seem to be accumulating numerous older pieces of gear that produce RGB
output and space and reliability of the old tubes to which they connect
is becoming more and more premium. Would like to be able to use an
LCD as an alternative.
A couple DEC VT240 came my way this weekend and they will need some TLC to
restore but the VR240 that came along with them is in even worse shape.
I'll give it my best shot but ability to use an LCD as Plan B would
be nice.
Any recomendations from success?
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Hi,
I made some changes in my TCP/IP code to make it behave better when
packets are lost and it has to retransmit. The old code used to wait a
fixed amount of time before retrying, which was painfully slow on a
local connection. The new code is adaptive and should work much better
on a wide range of connections.
If you'd like to help me test it I have my PCjr running the mTCP FTP
server with some old computer pictures, some software, and some text
files. (I'll add more during the day to keep it interesting.) You can
connect by going to the following address:
ftp://96.42.84.69:2021/
That URL should work in most browsers (Firefox, IE and Chrome). Chrome
tends to be a bit of a pig and it tries to preload the content that it
finds, so if you see it going slowly it is probably due to multiple
connections. The poor PCjr is only setup for 9 simultaneous connections.
If you use an FTP client anonymous FTP should work fine. Note the
non-standard control port - 2021. Which also means that if you are using
a real FTP client (and not a browser) you should be using PASSIVE mode.
(Port mode with a non-standard control port confuses most firewalls, and
they won't pick it up. Most browsers use PASSIVE mode by default.)
Uploading is not turned on for this test, but if you are dying to upload
contact me and I'll give you the password.
Fun facts:
- The machine is a PCjr with a jrIDE sidecar, 20GB IDE hard drive,
WD8003 ISA Ethernet adapter, NEC V20 CPU, and an IBM PC 5150 keyboard.
Yes, this is the same machine that was recently maligned on the list. ;-0
- If you want to see how the TCP/IP code is holding up you can get
statistics by using the "SITE STATS" command in a suitable FTP client.
- This is a DOS machine - you have to use DOS filenames and paths,
except for the directory delimiter - that uses the standard forward
slash. (Using the DOS backslash was too difficult for most clients and
browsers.) Also, if you use MGET remember that you have to use *.* and
not just * for a filespec.
Comments and bug reports are welcome. Use good judgement to avoid
cluttering up the list too much ...
Mike
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 1:16 PM PST Jason McBrien wrote:
>>
>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
>> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:38 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Who were the worst of the worst?
>>
>
>
>Some of the Tandy 1000 series were stinkers. Weird proprietary ISA
>connectors, weird video adapters, weird versions of DOS that were
>incompatible with most utility programs.
1000s didn't use DMA. O/w compatible afaik. I think there was a card that addedc the 8237 iinm
>Not a clone, but no list would be complete without the PC Jr. IMHO. What an
>absolutely terrible machine. It was actually *less* PC-5150 compatible than
>early clones.
Um yeah. The Peanut was an anemic T1000. It's a fun unit if you can live or partially deal with it's deficiencies. I'm just glad I.wasn't suckered into buying one back then. The Sanyos, Peanut, and T1000 had similar video modes. Must have been a creeping hardware virus anomole.
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 7:17 AM PST Eric Smith wrote:
>Fred Cisin wrote:
>
>> I don't remember what it was. Leading Edge? e-machine? Packard-Bell?
>> Some sort of freebie thrown at him by some company's marketing.
>
>Chris Tofu wrote:
>> O bruther. E-Machines, if even around then, wasn't making no clones. They made Mac video cards and monitors. And I'll have you know my Leading Edge/Sperry Model M runs rings around that Big Pyew. Supports 8" drives even maybe.
>
>I wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure when "then" was, but I think you've confused the company "eMachines" with the older UMAX/Supermac brand. eMachines was from their inception a PC clone company. Through acquisitions, eMachines was most recently an Acer brand, but has just been discontinued recently.
>
>Chris Tofu wrote:
>
>> Nuh uh. The original emachines at least sold mac cards. Check ebay. I still have my old Futura SX video card stuck in a IIcx.
>
>Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the *company* eMachines, which did in fact, as Fred stated, produce PC clones.
In the 1980s??? Please provide proof of that.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
> Nice work!
>
> I remember the 1130. What are you doing for a card reader? I recall that the 1130 could only read column-binary--it was up to software to interpret the data into character codes.
>
> Has anyone done an FPGA emulation of the 1620? That one has a soft spot in my heart to the extent that I can still remember the numeric opcodes for many instructions. The 1401 occupies a similar place in my memories. Little IBM boxes were really cute.
>
> --Chuck
At the moment, I use a high speed stream protocol over USB, via the brilliant fpgalink library by Bruce McClelland ( http://www.makestuff.eu/wordpress/software/fpgalink/ ) to a bit of python code on a PC which takes files and sends them as card column signals to my 2501 reader emulation logic in the fpga. I am mapping all the signals from the 2501 to the adapter circuits in the 1130, timing everything and modeling state as close to a real 2501 as I can determine, so that it appears that the photocells are detecting holes at the right time as the card virtually slides through the emulated transport, but the content of the columns that get turned into lights are stuffed into a FIFO by the link from the PC. However, someone has offered a small card reader that I will be gratefully accepting and utilizing. I plan to map the real reader as the 2501 and use my alternate 1442 reader/punch emulation over the fpgalink channels so that I can both read real cards and read files on the PC as virtual cards.
Yes, the 2501 just delivered to the 1130 one bit for each of the 12 card rows, exactly what was punched in that column. The 1130 programmer would convert the Hollerith coded characters into whatever other coding they wanted in their program. Boot mode wired the signals a bit differently to provide a 16 bit result to the 1130 that was usable as initial program load instructions, that is done in the 1130 adapter logic, not in the 2501. Finally, various forms of binary coding were used in the 1130, such as the user program format and a special binary mode used by diagnostic programs, but all of those are just the status of holes in a column sent as 12 bits plus 0000 to form an 1130 word. My python program converts ascii files to Hollerith, as well as delivering binary mode files directly as card hole images.
I don't personally know of any fpga emulations of 1620 machines, but there are excellent simulators available.
Carl
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From: Benjamin Huntsman <BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu>
>
> Here's an odd one...
> Anyone here ever seen, heard of, or have a Cyclone CVME961 board?
>
>
>
I have. The 961 was a pretty nice i960-based general purpose embedded
controller that got a lot of use in real time systems and, as I understand,
a lot of military stuff. i960CA of various speeds, memory, 2 serial ports
and a mezzanine expansion scheme Cyclone called "Squall" that had a few
options (I know there was an async serial card, think there was a SCSI card
and ethernet card, but can't recall anything else). Not sure what
specifically you want to know, but there is a good bit of info out there
still at Google reach. Unfortunately, I decided i960 wasn't something I
had time to play with, so all of mine are long gone.
BTW...what you really want to find if this sort of thing is your kink is a
CVME-965. 960HA, VME64, private and shared memory and 2 x Squall 2
mezzanine slots. The Squall 2 slots were much more useful, as Cyclone made
all sorts of interesting options for it. I had, at least, SCSI, 2-port
ethernet, various serial cards, some digitial input cards, etc. I
sorta-kinda remember there was an ATM card; I didn't have one. Made
whipping up a router on a card pretty easy, even if the preferred dev
environment was Ada.
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 8:44 PM PST Chuck Guzis wrote:
>On 02/16/2013 07:51 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
>>
>> start with a disk...
>>
>> Then what? smear on some rust? is it sprayed on? once you get the
>> chemistry correct it doesn't sound like the application portion
>> should be that challenging. is there an adhesive applied first?
>> Afterwards? Where's that Jeri lady. Get her on this LOL
>
>Well, no, you don't start with a disk. That would be silly.
>
>You start with a very wide blanket-on-a-roll of substrate. You mix the binder and oxide together in a thick paste and spread them on the sheet. I suspect that the thickness of the coating is regulated by a "doctor blade" setup. The coating is cured and then round disks are punched--the result is called a "cookie" for obvious reasons. It's then verified and inserted into the jacketing medium, sealed and packaged.
Not so fast bucko. Got to flip the blankee over and coat that side.
>The oxide coating on a 5.25" DD floppy is not much different from that of VHS videotape. I suspect that the demise of floppy manufacturing to more a case of video- and audiotape dying off.
I would think what put the kybosh on both were advances in optical media, which became a solution for computer storage earlier then video.
Both useful.posts though. Anyone think this can't be done? Is choice of substrate that critical? Question in my mind is how to control the thickness. This is why I had thought spraying would be appropriate. Maybe it is.
> The original Nova has a 4 bit ALU
What do you mean? I think i did not get your answer.
>> When I got my Nicolet, I had a similar sounding problem.It turned
out to be a missing clock.Of course, yours may be soemthing different
but you aregoing to need some schematics and a scope to track down.( I
did mine without a schematic but I was lucky ).Dwight
We already sighted most of the pdfs and schematics at bitsavers and
simh. We have a scope and logic analyzer
and some experience in component level repairs of electronics. This
machine is just a bit harder to diagnose
than for say our old VT100...the documentation is overwhelming and my
brain has not adapted to it well atm ;)
so i just hope to get somebody that has intimate knowledge of the
machine....
The problem of the machine only running on single step and not on "run"
may well be related to a missing clock, although
i wonder if even single instruction stepping would work without clock
since it also needs some form of clock to single step
through one asm instruction...although i might be on the wrong train
since there may well be more than one clock inside the machine.
Dave wrote:
> > Has anyone done an FPGA emulation of the 1620?
>
> I don't think so. Of course there already is an FPGA emulation of the
> 1130 by Richard T. Stofer which does plotting to an HPGL plotter. There is a video of his presentation to the 06 1130.org party here:-
>
> http://ibm1130.org/party/v06
>
> I also have hacks to the SIMH emulation to drive an HPGL plotter.
> Video of it in action here:-
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCUUgLvVvpg
>
Richards excellent work was what first got me involved with this - after watching his talk and contacting him, he shared his code and expertise to allow me to create a copy of his emulator. It inspired me to learn hardware design and electronics and to aim for my project. Richard designed his machine by designing hardware that would match the Functional Characteristics manual, analogous to how Amdahl designed an IBM compatible system by adhering to the Principles of Operations but adopting their own unique design within the machine. He did not have a goal to emulate the hardware console functions such as Single Step, Single Memory Cycle, Interrupt Run, Load, and so forth. Since I first got hands on experience with computers on an 1130, learning by using those controls and watching what my code was causing to happen, I wanted to recreate to that level.
My machine is built to map almost exactly onto the logic gates of the 1130, as I used the ALDs (automated logic diagrams) to recreate the system. It is designed to run at the same speed as the physical 1130. It is therefore a cycle by cycle faithful recreation, allowing someone to see what changes when releasing the Start key in Single Step mode at cycle T4 of instruction phase E1, which is phase B of the clock. Certain conditions change or actions take place on specific phases of those cycles - this recreates them. I also mapped all the hardware adapter logic faithfully and built hardware to emulate all the signals that came into the 1130 from the peripherals. As a final step, I adapt real hardware I have, an Electronic Typewriter 50 (selectric ball type machine), to link to my hardware emulation so that it behaves the same. My keyboard is a photocell driven partially mechanical unit from a keypunch of the era, interfaced to link to the 1130 adapter circuits and present the exact signals that would come from the real 1130 keyboard hardware. I built the display light pedestal above the console printer to scale, as another example of my obsessiveness. My aim is to replicate the experience of running an 1130 hands on.
This certainly is no denigration of the emulator built by Richard Stofer - it provides higher performance than a real 1130 and from a programmers standpoint is a truly faithful replica. For most people, that is all the recreation they want. Beyond that, there are software simulators such as the one hosted by Brian Knittel at http://www.ibm1130.org with a full set of 1130 software at the same site - highly recommended. This project has allowed me to meet a number of great people who have offered advice, aid and a supportive ear as I toiled away - I try to credit them all in my blog, but it is possible I haven't mentioned all of them. I am also indebted to Al Kossow and the Bitsavers archive for availability of ALDs and other documentation sufficient to produce this hardware level recreation.
> But for the 1620 nothing so far. There is Java based emulator but the only software thats been converted is the diagnostics. Al did load up the other stuff he has to bit savers , but I havn't had time to look at it, as I got distracted by a project to connect some Creed equipment from a Ferranti Pegasus to a software emulator....
>
Sounds like you are having some fun yourself. Hope it is going well.
>> That one has a soft spot in my heart to the extent that I can still
>> remember the numeric opcodes for many instructions. The 1401 occupies
>> a similar place in my memories. Little IBM boxes were really cute.
>>
>
>The 1620 I used wasn't what I would call "cute" but it was the second machine I programmed.
I guess we are all bonded by an appreciation of early technology machines that were formative for us.
Carl
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This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the person to whom it has been sent, and may contain information that is confidential or legally protected. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, you are not authorized to copy, distribute, or otherwise use this message or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and permanently delete this message and any attachments. Gartner makes no warranty that this e-mail is error or virus free.
Does anyone know the part number for the CRT in a 17" NeXT monochrome
monitor? I've cast about for a schematic that shows it to no avail. I've
opened up the monitor (N4000A), and the number is not evident. The
internal frame bears a Sony name and number, SMC-311A. I fear the number
may be hidden under the yoke - which I'd rather not pull free, for obvious
reasons. Before I start getting dramatic with this thing, does anyone
know the part number?
I'm going to try rejuvenating the CRT, per a comment by Ethan a little
while back (I acquired a B&K for $9 on ePay). Nearly all of the 17" CRTs
have the same switch settings, but count on Jobs to have picked an off
one. :-) So it seems wise to tap the collective wisdom before just
crossing my fingers. Thanks -- Ian
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 8:36 PM PST Nigel Williams wrote:
>On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Chris Tofu
><rampaginggreenhulk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Then what? smear on some rust? is it sprayed on? once you get the chemistry correct it doesn't sound like the application portion should be that challenging. is there an adhesive applied first?
>
>There is a short section here about the raw materials and process:
>
>http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Floppy-Disk.html
>
>It would seem that the community might want to track down this document (book?):
>
>Aronson, Susan. Diskette Reference Manual. 3M Data Storage Products
>Division, 1990.
>
>I notice that this fellow references this document too:
>
>http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html
Smashing research
excellent research
start with a disk...
Then what? smear on some rust? is it sprayed on? once you get the chemistry correct it doesn't sound like the application portion should be that challenging. is there an adhesive applied first? Afterwards? Where's that Jeri lady. Get her on this LOL
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 7:17 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote:
>> > I won it. It resembles a Keytronic 5150, but has something like an rj11
>> > (don't ask me how many conductors). Is it an IBM/K* internally?
>> >No.
>
>On Sat, 16 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote:
>> How do you know?
>
>Because in 1983, Michael Swaine (Infoworld) called the Dimension, "PC
>compatible".
I fail to see what that has to do with the keyboard
>How many "workstation" terminals did you get with it?
exactly 0. is that a bad thing?
the monitors that I see pictured with it look just like an Eagles. which could mean they are 5151 compatible. which could mean it might have more aspects of compatibility then you might think.
in any event it's a toy to play with and now I have a keyboard. I have discs but something tells me they're not going to be what I want them to be. I know it doesn't run MS DOS natively but it might be fun to try. it's not intended to be a product tivity tool.
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:44 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote:
>On Sat, 16 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote:
>> I won it. It resembles a Keytronic 5150, but has something like an rj11
>> (don't ask me how many conductors). Is it an IBM/K* internally?
>No.
How do you know?
>> I guess
>> I should have asked before I bid/bin.
Yeah. Gone.
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 6:30 PM PST Nigel Williams wrote:
>On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I payed 100$, and had to pick it up in Queens/Nassau. I'll take 50$ plus shipping, from 08758. It works, but
>> there is noticeable screen burn even when off. I have some disks, and
>> the 8" drive cabinet.
>
>did someone end up taking this off you?
I payed 100$, and had to pick it up in Queens/Nassau. I'll take 50$ plus shipping, from 08758. It works, but
there is noticeable screen burn even when off. I have some disks, and
the 8" drive cabinet.
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:57 PM PST Chuck Guzis wrote:
>For the third time, I've had to replace the three 357 silver-oxide cells in my HP16C calculator. That's probably very close to 15 years on average between sets--not bad.
You make me wish I had a *real* HP calc :(
For the third time, I've had to replace the three 357 silver-oxide cells
in my HP16C calculator. That's probably very close to 15 years on
average between sets--not bad.
What surprised me was that one day, the thing was working nicely and the
next, it was dead--no display, nothing. A voltmeter confirmed the power
failure.
I suspect the cells get pretty near their shelf life in this
application. Is it usual for them to reach the end of their shelf life
so suddenly?
--Chuck
I won it. It resembles a Keytronic 5150, but has something like an rj11 (don't ask me how many conductors). Is it an IBM/K* internally? I guess I should have asked before I bid/bin.
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:14 PM PST Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
>>> Don't make me open up a can of Thetans on you.
>> Oh shit! H-bombs!
>> Nah. I do happen to have a genuine can of EMP though. :)
>
> I see a global thermonuclear war coming...
Really? I was just opening the garage door wondering where I put my hip boots and shovel. And gas mask.
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 03:00:14 +0100
> From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de>
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: WANTED: TM8E magtape controller for Omnibus
> Message-ID: <511EE82E.2010605 at hachti.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi David,
>
> On 15.02.2013 18:53, David Gesswein wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:50:44PM +0100, Philipp Hachtmann wrote:
>>> Is there anybody out there who
>>> 1. owns a TM8E magtape controller?
>> Yes.
> Nice.
>
>> I got mine from "thom restivo"<trestivo at tarinc.com>
>> back in 2004. At the time he said he had more boards. Found a TU10 to go
>> with it in 2007.
>> http://www.pdp8online.com/tu10/tu10-repair.shtml
> Thank you, I'll ask him!
>
> Regards
>
> Philipp
>
I'm afraid that Thom went out of business quite a few years ago and
sold his warehouse full of DEC equipment. I never found out who
bought him out. I enjoyed visiting and crawling through the place
though.
Bob
>Holy shit! It's a talking plant!
>
>g.
I keep telling you people I haven't smoked plants in decades if there seems to be a residual smell it's just probably the oregano I had my pizza
Go back to pretending you're Tom Cruise flyboy.
------------------------------
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:22 PM PST Dave McGuire wrote:
> [off-list]
Uh...
> Dude. Gene IS Tom Cruise. He uses an alias here for the obvious
>reason. Watch yourself!
O great. First d*****bag atheists now a hitman from the church of Scientology to deal with!
> -Dave
>
> *snicker*
No thanks I'm cooking dinner now (it may be my last!). I don't want to spoil it
>Tandy and Amstrad machines had one accessory available that AFAIK was not
>avaialbe for other clones (it was avaialbe for IB< 5150/5160/5170
>machines). This accessory is rather important to me. I refer, of course,
>to a schematic diagram.
>
>-tony
The Tandy 2000 tech manual even included circuit board artwork. IINM IBM's extensive documentation didn't have that. They did include rom sources though, which Tandy didn't.
I've seen a fair amount of tech manuals. It's hard to beat these 2.
I finally got an inventory up of what I have. Heres the price $30
bucks an item plus shipping, no matter what it is.
Inventory as of 2-16-13
10 Apple Monitor //
4 Apple Monitor ///
32 Cosmetically damaged IIGS Monitors
10 Nice GS Monitors
8 Mac IIcx
2 Mac IIci
3 Mac IIsi
5 Imagewriter I
3 Beige G3 Minitowers
2 G3 Desktops
5 PowerMac 6100s
2 Centris 610
1 Quadra 610
1 Performa 6110
1 Performa 6116
1 PowerMac 7300/180
1 PowerMac 7500/100
2 PowerMac 7100/66
1 Performa 600
1 Macintosh IIVX
4 Original LCs
3 LC 575s
1 SE FDHD
2 SE 800k
5 Mac Pluses
1 Molar Mac
it's bleachy. Turns out it was left outside in a box w/a bunch of cables, and rain water bleaches things better then most other substances. Works fine. Tested it on the A600 I sold recently. Cable is a little dirty too.
Someone pointed out that the 3B2's disk may still be salvageable. I'm not sure about that, but I don't have a lot of
experience with the older drives. It's probably the original disk, as it has AT&T stickers on it. Plugged into multiple
computers and external drive enclosures it spins up, head load click, then spins down. I've tried reseating connectors
and checking jumpers, no change. I don't know what the jumper on the bottom side of the lowest PCB near
the SCSI connector does, and there are two empty DIP sockets on the bottom of the drive that could possbly be a
part of the problem. I haven't taken a scope to it to trace out the signals yet and see if an amp died.
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote:
> Well plating can be accomplished in the home shop but where are you
> going to get the gold. Wait for a meteorite?
> But it brings up an interesting idea of mine. Couldn't you reverse
> plate the gold right off of pins and whatnot? No nasty chemicals, no
> mess, no fuss.
Gold plating usually uses cyanide compounds, which many people consider "nasty chemicals" (certainly chemicals
that one needs to work with carefully, but pretty common for both plating and case hardening).
If you're using cyanide anyway, you might as well go ahead and use a modified MacArthur-Forrest process and not bother with
the electricity. Pour your gold-containing objects in a dilute cyanide solution, recover the gold by either electrowinning
or single-replacement with zinc.
At the end of the day either way is a lot of work for little gold.
There was a question about what manufacturer made it. It looks like a generic Taiwanese whitebox,
sticker on the back says "Mega 4000", sticker on the front says "AT Light" (+1 for them getting
the spelling right instead of using "Lite", -100 for their marketing department appearing to have
no idea what "AT" means).
I guess I'll hang onto it for a bit, anyway. I have a SCSI card that will work in it and an old VGA
card.
------------------------------
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:05 PM PST Chris Tofu wrote:
>
>
>------------------------------
>On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 5:12 PM PST Jules Richardson wrote:
>
>>I know of at least one person who has some bare / partially-populated PCBs, but my board's the only complete one that I know of (aside from the possible ROM issue).
>
> are they willing to part with 1+?
And which Acorn are we talking about? Apparently Acorn had a relationship to BBC. I'm looking for an Archimedes by the way, they're just so darn expensive last I checked.
I pulled all the cards out of my rolling dinosaur. One small card with 2 sets of fingers sports an 80186. What is this card? I won't have a better picture until Monday if anyone was dying to see it.
------------------------------
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 5:12 PM PST Jules Richardson wrote:
>I know of at least one person who has some bare / partially-populated PCBs, but my board's the only complete one that I know of (aside from the possible ROM issue).
are they willing to part with 1+?
Hi folks,
I already have lots of stuff - but there's always something missing!
Is there anybody out there who
1. owns a TM8E magtape controller?
and
2. who can imagine to give it away?
I have a few TU10 drives that dropped in with a PDP11 some time ago.
It would be awsome to get one of them running on a 8/e system. I know that there
was a magtape controller. But I'be never seen one. And I don't know anyone who
has one.
At one point in newer history I found a H960 containing a 8/e and a TU10. But
when opening the 8/e, it was empty - no TM11 controller :-(
Any hints appreciated.
Kind regards
Philipp
(I'm currently getting my collection reassembled and rearranged. Most of it will
be tied together in the place where I'm living. Therefore I have begun to play
with minicomputers again - after a few years of very low activity and a widely
spread nearly inaccessible collection. And I will sell some stuff!)
--
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Philipp Hachtmann
Buchdruck, Bleisatz, Spezialit?ten
Alemannstr. 21, D-30165 Hannover
Tel. 0511/3522222, Mobil 0171/2632239
Fax. 0511/3500439
hachti at hachti.de
www.tiegeldruck.de
UStdID DE 202668329
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 1:37 PM PST Tom Gardner wrote:
>Let's not be US centric - I nominate AMSTRAD for one of the worst designed
>system boxes. The cables basically blocked all airflow resulting in all
>sorts of thermal problems, and the data separator, designed by some UK
>consultants who knew nothing about the subject, limit-cycled eating up all
>the disk drive margin.
>
>Tom
Didn't Acorn dabble in pcs? What about Research Machines? Fairly robust, no?
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 2:44 PM PST Tony Duell wrote:
>If you don't wantto etch your own PCB, it's relatively hard to get a male
>card edge conenctor
you can accomplish rudimentary masking and etching by using cheap packing tape. Encapsulate the board then slice and remove portions of the board you'd like to etch away. No copper sulfate IIRC (the etchant) won't eat your fingers. Just DON'T pour it down the drain, protect your clothes and be careful of animals.
(and if you do etch your own board, it's non-trivial
>to gold plate it).
Well plating can be accomplished in the home shop but where are you going to get the gold. Wait for a meteorite?
But it brings up an interesting idea of mine. Couldn't you reverse plate the gold right off of pins and whatnot? No nasty chemicals, no mess, no fuss.
it is, however, quite easy to get header plugs of
>various sizes, including ones with wire-wrap pins.
>
>If I ahd to make such an adapter in a hurry (== no time to make the
>PCB)_, I'd probably put 34 pin and 50 pin wire-wrap headers ont a bit of
>square pad board, wire-wrap approrpraity, and fit one of said adapterso
>nto the 34 pin header to conenct to the edge connector on the cable.
If I'm following you, couldn't you cut the card edge from a busted drive, solder that to an appropriate board (I would have to assume the spacing is identical), solder a header connector, preferably right angle, to the opposite side of the board, then solder jumper wires where appropriate?
Hi all,
my Name is Alex, me and a friend of mine have been actively
participating in a computer collection, mostly repairing
stuff and bringing it back to life. We have numerous old apples, vaxes,
decstations, suns, next etc and some
real weird old stuff ;)
Lately we discovered a DG nova standing in a dark corner of a storeroom.
We have absolutely no peripherals, just
the bare machine. It has 2 CPU boards, a general IO card, 2 Memory
boards and some unknown third party controller.
The Machine as it sits now has 2-3 problems (at least):
1: Somehow the "desposit next" switch does not work as expected by not
incrementing the adress sometimes. Doing a deposit-examine next-deposit
works, so thats a minor problem.
2: Simple programs run fine in single step mode. Press RUN and the
machine seems to hang. You can not even STOP anymore, you have
to reset the machine. Annonying, but to test the simple stuff single
stepping also works....
3: The biggest problem is: The ACs have numerous bits stuck on 1. It is
the same bit pattern for all ACs. We can store and
deposit the non-stuck bits, but all others remain a 1. With this
behaviour its really really hard to write any meaningful asm to
test the machine ;)
Please see the attached Link for pictures of the machine and the
bit-pattern of the AC. Since the AC Deposit works as expected
and the error shows only when examining we are positive that the error
is not in the AC Registers itself but somewhere where
the switch location is actually shifted into the AC....or something like
that. We are also struggling a bit to get all the documentation
in a meaningful relation. So if you have any pointers on what to do or
check, please chime in.
If the machine gets back to life i have plans on emulating a storage
device to run one of the available os-es. Should be doable with
a microcontroller and some logic glue.....but it looks like a long way ;)
See actual pictures of the machine here
http://bigalpha.ath.cx/nova/pics/ori/index.html
where you can also see the bit Pattern of the AC.
I kinda wonder why its
1 11X 111 X11 1X1 11X
I guess this should point us nearer to the point of failure.
best regards
Alex
I just joined the group, although I have had a long time appreciation of vintage computing technology. I spent most of my career on the software, marketing and most other aspects of computers but not hardware. I have put together systems, hacked at things, but at a light level, until recently. I decided to really learn how to design and engineer, choosing a project that would expose me to many aspects and be a forcing function for developing quite a few skills. Not that this makes me a full bore EE or able to design at a current technology professional level, but enough so I could envision, design and make hobby items of pretty much any scope I wanted. The project is a replica of an IBM 1130, a low end mainframe contemporaneous with S/360 and sharing the same logic and other technology. My aim is to build one that is an experiential replica - one that brings me as close as I can get to the experiences and behavior I had sitting in front of the console hand stepping through code back at the end of the 1960s. The internals are based on modern FPGA but producing a cycle by cycle accurate system, faithful to the timing on the real machine. I have a blog detailing the work, my current state and goals, if anyone is interested, at ibm1130.blogspot.com
Currently I am adapting an IBM Electronic Typewriter model 50 - a late model of the Selectrics - to serve as the console printer since the 1130 used a 1053 (Selectric based printer). The keyboard is being adapted from a keypunch keyboard, since the 1130 used the keyboard from an IBM 029 punch, and even where I am using more modern devices (a streaming link over USB to a PC to present card images to the peripheral adapter logic, I have made it timing and behavior faithful. The processor itself is working quite well, which is why I have moved the focus to peripherals. It is a very similar effort to that of Lawrence Wilkinson who has built a 360 model 30 and is also building peripherals at this time. You can read about the 360/30 project at http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360/vhdl/
I am hoping that members of this group will be able to share advice and information as I look to adapt something like an RK-05 disk drive, since it is very similar to the IBM 1130 drive, in a later phase. It is a truly quixotic project with no clear end, but will give me the excuse to dabble in all manner of old technology along the way. Hopefully many of you will have fascinating projects and experiences that I can enjoy.
Carl
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Hi Folks,
I just heard that the Spare Time Gizmos SBC6120 partial kit is being offered as a Kickstarter project:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sparetimegizmos/classic-pdp8-replica
There are just 12-days left until the project expires. It currently has 11 of 30 slots filled.
Only 30-slots are available and all must be filled for the project to be funded.
I have signed up for one, so I'm hoping that it goes forward!
Steve L.
>From what I've read kickstarter also requires some formal example of a finished product now as well. Not just a pipedream with sponsorship. I imagine they're trying to use that as some security vs pay for an idea that someone might not be able to produce.
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 3:35 PM PST Chris Long wrote:
>Research Machines made a whole range of PCs starting with the first Nimbus.
>
>I have one in the collection but have had little time to look at it tbh.
I used to have a Nimbus mobo.
And I was thinking Apricot, yet said Acorn (that made a pc).
I seem to recall using a PCjr drive (Qume?) to image disks in a newer pc..
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 3:20 PM PST TeoZ wrote:
even the floppy drives were different then anything on a clone because the power was in the data cable).
I have a 3B2/1000 that I'm trying to resurrect. The main Winchester drive is dead-ish (haven't written it off, but it's doing spinup-click-spindown so there's something big wrong), so I need to label a new drive.
3B2s are DSQD floppies, and I'm trying to figure out my best approach. I have the utility software in a disk image, but PCs usually don't ship with DSQD drives. I've found three possible options, but don't know if anyone's used any of them (or one that I haven't come across).
(1) Mount the 3B2's DSQD floppy in a PC and try to write out the disk using it. Don't know if the PC's disk controller supports DSQD- I have a Compaq Deskpro 386/25 and a whitebox Pentium that I can try
(2) modify one of the above machine's stock 1.2MB drives to spin at 300RPM. Don't know if it will write out the disk this way, but found mod. instructions here: http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi/525HDMOD.htm . May work, may not -I'm not sure how QD and HD head widths compare.
(3) Replace the 3B2's 5.25 DSQD drive with a 3.5" drive and use 720K 3.5" disks to load it. Don't know how well 3B2 hardware would like this mod.
I do have the proper DSDD media to use, so that's not an issue. I'd probably write the disk out with "dd" on Linux or xBSD if possble, as the network support makes getting the image to the writing machine much easier.
Anyone been in this position before?
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:35 PM PST Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus wrote:
>I have seen plenty of 8-bit and 16-bit floppy controllers where the end
>drops lower than the connectors, especially if the card is very long; it
>supports the card in the case or the motherboard. Usually there is a brand
>of some sort. Sorry, I can't identify it by the numbers you gave. Maybe if
>you could post a pic somewhere of the front and back?
I know I have. Can't recall off the top what computers used them or if they were just early ISA cards. But remember this seems to be an oldee. Or was it just populated (repopulated?) with old chips? Otherwise what could be that old and mostly look like an ISA card? What bus used 62 pins?
What about Samtron? Were they related to Samsung? And what about Samsung? I know they made a 286 at least.
There were a million. Millions and millions.
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 1:43 PM PST Ethan Dicks wrote:
>ISTR some games that had to be released in Tandy 1000-compatible
>versions, but perhaps that was due to video hardware that wasn't
>really EGA or VGA-compatible at the register level.
>
>-ethan
They took advantage of enhanced CGA modes. Same with the jr.
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:58 AM PST Pete Plank wrote:
>
>On Feb 13, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Scott Quinn <saquinn624 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> For those with old clones, what do you use them for, or is it just mostly nostalgia?
>
>I keep one for writing out disk images to 8" drives.
>
>Pete
You feel it's necessary to have an 8088 to do this? Can you tell us which specific components you use.
. Tandy was questionable, but in
>> reality not as bad as their rep.
>
>Yep. another case of not being exactly the same, and catching flack for
>that. Marketing did little or nothing to help prevent people looking for
>a CHEAPER 5150 from buying a machine that was DIFFERENT.
>That was probably MOST of the Sanyo sales, and even the RS 2000.
The 1000 couldn't take the longest cards. The earliest mobos had gold ram. The quality wasn't really bad. The 2k wasn't compatible and was possibly a bit less reliable. But when sales drooped (1st quarter?) They used them in the back rooms. They couldn't have been that bad but perhaps there's a reason so many had Bernoulli boxes jest in case ;)
>There was a local surplus dealer who had Augat sockets cheap! At local
>swaps, I was able to buy bare imitation 5160 motherboards. I learned to
>solder, often while watching TV. The third one that I assembled worked!
>By then, I was also no longer putting in sockets for DIP Switches and
>resistor packs :-)
I got my foist xsistor radio soldered and working wit no problems at all. I have a Canadian made I think MBE-XT bare board. I should populate it jest to see if I still got it going on ;). I'll need a box - anyone - and sit it next to my faux ATjr. Or maybe just screw it to a.piece of plywood and be happy.
>So, who WERE the worst EARLY clones?
>
>There WERE much worse machines than Sanyo. (which suffered more from
>incompatability than quality).
Hyundai were also too late I assume. Tandy was questionable, but in reality not as bad as their rep. Cordat, Corona? Can't say. There were gujillions of Taiwanese boxes in those days. There were kit computers. I know I'll get egged for.this, but personally I think people were stupid to not build a clone from parts they mail ordered from the back of BYTE. I was in fact too stupid. Heard all the bed rap about evil vicious clones and their problems. I did return my Tandy 1000 once I found out I could get top of the line graphics and screen for the same price. But I waited over a year to buy a Multisync II then some months later a pernicious Tandy 2000. It would have held up longer if I wasn't constantly tearing it apart. Then I bought an Itt Xtra XP 286 hybrid. Wasn't bad at all, but once again I conxtantly twiddled with it's innards.
Terry Yaeger once had a Hacker XT luggable. Maybe you should talk to him about it. And I'm telling you right now one of the rarest things in the universe are the later vga luggables that seemingly were churned out in the trillions.
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:44 AM PST Fred Cisin wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013, Chris Tofu wrote:
>> In the 1980s??? Please provide proof of that.
>
>Want one???
An E-Machines peecee clone from the 1980s? I'd pay money for it.
Hi,
Just wondering, is it possible to upgrade a CMD CQD-220/T/M to a
CQD-220/TM by replacing the 2 firmware eproms?
Thanks,
Ed
--
Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email.
Zeg NEE tegen de 'slimme' meter.
They probably declared themselves never obsolete due to the atx form factor. Was their a 466mhz P* or was that a celeron? I'd bet 10 to 1 you could slap an 8" drive in that baby and archive to your heart's content. Somebody grab it.
If you're only reading 8" disks do you still need to reroute anything? Other then power.
I don't know either nor give a rip. I just know they weren't making peecee clones.
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 6:06 AM PST David Riley wrote:
>On Feb 14, 2013, at 2:02, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ------------------------------
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:40 PM PST Eric Smith wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure when "then" was, but I think you've confused the company "eMachines" with the older UMAX/Supermac brand. eMachines was from their inception a PC clone company. Through acquisitions, eMachines was most recently an Acer brand, but has just been discontinued recently.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> Nuh uh. The original emachines at least sold mac cards. Check ebay. I still have my old Futura SX video card stuck in a IIcx.
>
>I have a Futura SX II in my basement along with the
>original driver floppies. I have no idea whether the e-Machines
>that made it is in any way related to the later one that Apple
>sued when they started making candy-colored PC clones;
>my suspicion is no, since I also have a vague (possibly
>false) recollection that the Mac card company got
>absorbed by Radius some time around the PowerPC
>transition.
>
>
>- Dave
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:40 PM PST Eric Smith wrote:
>I'm not sure when "then" was, but I think you've confused the company "eMachines" with the older UMAX/Supermac brand. eMachines was from their inception a PC clone company. Through acquisitions, eMachines was most recently an Acer brand, but has just been discontinued recently.
>
>Eric
Nuh uh. The original emachines at least sold mac cards. Check ebay. I still have my old Futura SX video card stuck in a IIcx.
E-majl your needs. I sold the drive cabinet like an idiot but the cpu w/1 busted key (and does not work), and the expansion cabinet w/a few digs I still have. I'll probably put this stuff on ebay soon. I can at least provide digital stills of the manuals though.
I've readily created and reproduced images of Tandy 2000 720k 5 1/4" floppies with run of the mill 1.2 Meg drives. All kinds.Imagedisk, Teledisk wotevuh. In early pentiums and whatnot. Didn't tamper with jumpers nor data rates. And I do seem to recall W2K server straitaway raeding quads in 1.2 drives. Again w/no tampering or fenagling anything. Not even a pretty please.
Don't listen to the Fredster. Quads are alive and well and are the de facto Uber Density.
------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 12:43 AM PST Sam O'nella wrote:
>Have you tried making any of those 5.25 to 8" converters with them?
Most of the drives I"ve seen have 50 pin male headers like a scsi-1 or something else entirely.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk at yahoo.com>
>Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:58:42
>To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>Subject: Re: 3B2 floppies
>
>
>I also have a bag full of the card edge to header converters. 1$ + shipping.
>
Despite my illiteracy I was SIMPLY STATING that I've readily worked with quads w/o having to fiddle with anything.
What are we supposed to call them if not quads??? Clearly it's not about density when even I stated DD disks seem to always work. It's about a format that is unusual yet common enough to warrant a separate designation.
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:49 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013, C:\Derp wrote:
>> I've readily created and reproduced images of Tandy 2000 720k 5 1/4"
>> floppies with run of the mill 1.2 Meg drives. All kinds.Imagedisk,
>> Teledisk wotevuh. In early pentiums and whatnot. Didn't tamper with
>> jumpers nor data rates. And I do seem to recall W2K server straitaway
>> raeding quads in 1.2 drives. Again w/no tampering or fenagling anything.
>> Not even a pretty please.
>> Don't listen to the Fredster. Quads are alive and well and are the de
>> facto Uber Density.
>
>For those who are literate, I clearly stated that MOST "1.2M" drives can
>do "720K" formats, once the drive select and cabling issues of
>installation are done, and after somebody COMPETENT writes software that
>switches speed or data transfer rate to the correct values (which they
>will often DEFAULT to, and prevents software from double-stepping.
>Any problems that occur are installation issues, and/or the result of
>running software that does stuff that you do not want.
>
>However, calling them "quad" is a completely clear determination of
>incompetence.
>
>There are no "FREDSTER"s here.
>
>
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:46 PM PST Toby Thain wrote:
>On 13/02/13 9:50 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
>>
>> Do 128k Macs go for big bucks? Guess I've been out of the loop.
>>
>
>I heard they stopped making them.
O MY SIDE STOP STOP
I heard on good authority they ain't making twinkies no mo either. And then one turns up on this forum.
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:27 PM PST Chuck Guzis wrote:
>On 02/13/2013 09:03 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
>
>> "It works on a real IBM PC" carries no weight when a reviewer's machine
>> is buggy.
>
>Apparently, the Sanyo piece-of-something MBC-550 series machines are now collectors' items. One of the worst PC-compatibles/non-compatibles ever. Used a WD17xx floppy controller and ran (by CPU clock) slower than the 5150. Has a sort of VCR-look to it. No BIOS, except for a very simple bootloader--the BIOS had to be loaded from your boot floppy.
>
>One wonders what possessed Sanyo to make the thing.
>
>--Chuck
I thought you liked the Silver Fox. Yes it had a 3.58 mhz clock, a hybrid digital-linear power supply, one red key and the largest return key you'll ever need. My dookey machine don't work currently. It may look like a vcr because it's so compact. Warez are available on the Tandy 2000 yahoo group or at least there's a recent threadc telling you where to find them. They had a following back in the day. Had better color graphics then cga if you could imagine.
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:00 PM PST Scott Quinn wrote:
>I AM UNWORTHY!
>
>I have recited the proper names of the D-shells 10 times through as penance. Scrub out That Which Shall Not Be Named Again and insert whatever descriptive term you prefer.
>
>Some marketer got to the manuals and put in That Which Shall Not Be Named Again, and the 3B2 is my first introduction to that particular format. I have been instructed in the mysteries and now know the proper terms to use.
I have heard on good authority that even the priests and priestesses, Fred, Chuck, Allison,... utter such blasphemies in secretive chambers. So just don't swet it. Everybody's doing it.
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:03 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote:
>I don't remember what it was. Leading Edge? e-machine? Packard-Bell?
>Some sort of freebie thrown at him by some company's marketing.
O bruther. E-Machines, if even around then, wasn't making no clones. They made Mac video cards and monitors. And I'll have you know my Leading Edge/Sperry Model M runs rings around that Big Pyew. Supports 8" drives even maybe.
------------------------------
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:27 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote:
>But, after giving a copy to John Dvorak, and having it not work on his
>after-market POS, I started testing on every BIOS and every FDC that I
>could.
Point Of Sale like an NCR? Never mind. Do you remember what he was using?
I AM UNWORTHY!
I have recited the proper names of the D-shells 10 times through as penance. Scrub out That Which Shall Not Be Named Again and insert whatever descriptive term you prefer.
Some marketer got to the manuals and put in That Which Shall Not Be Named Again, and the 3B2 is my first introduction to that particular format. I have been instructed in the mysteries and now know the proper terms to use.