- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, e.tedeschi happened to blather: >Scott Walde wrote: While I fully agree with what Scott wrote in his (admittedly longwinded :-) post, I'm not sure if it was stated simply enough.... >> Back to the religion thing again... If I was giving something away, and a >> person wanted it to use it for some purpose which I am 'religiously' >> opposed to (I can't think of a good example off hand) I would probably try >> to find someone else to take the item. I think that this should be my >> right. (I do have the right to practice my religion, don't I?) I hope >> you can see how this applies directly to the computer issue. To put it in 4 words, I believe Scott is saying: "Live and let live." >So now the problem is clear...notwithstanding all the previous >declaration to the contrary THERE IS a problem of someone being opposed >to some other use (and possibly location) of the stuff. I think it is >only fair that it is so. If the problem is clear to you... could you explain it to me? My mind is still dizzy from all this... :-) (Oh, and BTW, would you mind not yelling?) >What is NOT fair is to try to hide it and find other excuses like...too >difficult to pack... to expensive to be worth bothering with it....too >much paperwork etc. Ain't we all in the same passion? If not then I >would rather not be here. Personally, I had no idea that they still "shipped" (pun intended) things on "the Big Pond." I would not have even thought to look for something other than airmail, and I can attest (as I live on the Canada-US border) that Customs can be a right pain in the behind. >See what I mean? (is this too much cultural for someone?) Well, no. Enrico, I do have one question: Are you waiting for someone to say to you: "You're right?" If so, I don't believe you've presented enough evidence to us to judge whether or not you are. I can say that several of the "points" you've tried to make have been very vague and could be interpreted a number of different ways. I've noticed that several people on this list has tried to explain what they percieve to be going on, and I readily admit that I don't know enough about what's going on. However, one thing I do know very well is communication, and there does seem to be a major miscommunication problem here. I for one, would like to see you stay with the list, and yes, there might be the occasional twit on the list as well, but I'm on 5-6 lists (two of which I run), and I must say that I've seen fewer twits on this list than on my others. I have several friends I've met thru e-mail all over the world (and yes, including the U.K... ;-) and I will say that I was offended with you're insistance that this was a "foriegner" issue... This is called the "World Wide Web" not the "U.S. Web." I can also guarantee that no matter what country you visit, you *will* find at least one twit living there. Guaranteed. Enrico, if you can clearly explain your position (with examples, if necessary) to me in private e-mail, I would be more than glad to help you out and would even be glad to act as intermediary between you and anyone else with which there may be a communication problem. Otherwise, I'll go back lurking and I will have no more to say about this thread. (I promise!!! ;^> ) Just my tuppence worth, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 9 months

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Why?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> > There is the matter of customs which many americans have little experien > > with. > I accept that....but you are such a big country. Isn't it about time you > start looking outside and try to understand other cultures? (no offence > meant) I worked for several companies that was very good in that respect, Japanese and European. I did exchange information and material on a very regular basis however, it was another person in shipping that took care of details of getting it there. AS an engineer the machanics of those transactions were an inpediment to doing the work! In short you are confusing the mechanics of transaction with cultural interaction. I have had only on case where I got something for the shipping cost and depite care in packaging by the shipper a s100 box was received severely bent! Over a certain weight crating is a must it would appear. I don't have the resources to crate a machine. For me save for that one long distance transaction other than for a floppy, a board or paper/books(small under 2kg) to strictly local transactions withing the driving distance of my old toyota pickup truck. As is, that can prove difficult! Allison

28 years, 9 months

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[Fwd: Re: Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)]

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

Just by coincidence here is an example I have just received just now (there have been more before I started this debate; I don't that I am paranoid, there is definetely something in this group which is (generally speaking): a) against "displays" (pulling out bits to display etc.) b) Against shipping overseas (cost is no problem as is paid by the recipient) It took my some four e-mail messages to get to this message enclosed here. See what I mean? enrico -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 9 months

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[Fwd: C65 - The 2nd]

by scott＠saskatoon.com

Also found this in comp.emulators.cbm ttfn srw

28 years, 9 months

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[Fwd: Commodore Plus/4 w/ 1541]

by scott＠saskatoon.com

I found this on comp.emulators.cbm ttfn srw

28 years, 9 months

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Who was in Australia?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Subject: Mint Commodore PET FOR Sale From: "Stephen McCoy and Charmiane Barr" <mrsmrx(a)efni.com> Date: 1997/06/17Message-Id: <01bc7b43$fddee5c0$b8933dcf@charmaine> Newsgroups: aus.computers.amiga[More Headers] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC7B1A.15107EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey all If you are in the market for antique computers and accessories I got one for you--Commodore PET (Slim 25) with a working tape drive and cable. The unit works at its factory best standards as well as the tape drive. If anyone is collecting antique Commodore computer from the seventies/eighties this is a classic machine and there are few left in North America. If you wish to bid on this unit (only serious bids will be received/answered) please write an email to me at the below address and I will get back to you.Thanks for reading and have a good day.-- Stephen McCoy "Quiet"mrsmrx(a)efni.comWise men are those with an open mind to subjects others are not :]

28 years, 9 months

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This mlist is ACTIVE!

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I would suggest subscribing to the list in Digest form. One big email message per day and you can skim through to the ones you want to read. Or just delete the whole thing if you're not in the mood (heaven forbid!) > > I just subscribed to this mailing list yesterday and am amazed at the > > traffic. Just today, I seem to have received more than 80 messages! > > Which is why I'm dropping it. >

28 years, 9 months

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Commodore Variable Speed Drives???

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

References: <199706200702.AAA08312(a)lists.u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the Commodore drives ARE 300 RPM like most of the others, many 1541 flywheels have the speed-calibaration diagram on them (use fluorecent light to determine correct RPM). 154s and the lot have software&hardware to adjust the density on tracks so more data can be stuffed in inner tracks and allow the outer ones to spread out. No special speed involved here. It is because of this that many computers with dumb drives can't read the 1541 format (including Amiga!) the controller cards seem to be limited in this fasion. Thus there is quite a demand for 1541 drivess and (pre-converted) .d64 files in the 64 emulator community. ;) I think all the 5.25" Commodore drives were based on the variable density initiated in the 2040 DOS. My Complete Commodore Inner Space Anthology has differing sector counts on tracks on all the models (4040, 2031, 1541, 8050, 8250/SFD-1001) The hard drives (9060 & 9090) seem to be uniform thoough. Things changed with the 1581 disk (3.5") which uses a variation of the MFM format, and can be readable with PC/Amiga computers (with the proper software, of course.) -- Taking quotes from that LA article on collecting: > Most of these early machines and programs, which didn't work very >well when they were new [IBM PC,MS/DOS], are even more troublesome to maintain now >[Windows 95]--and have been rendered obsolete by wave after wave of new equipment. >[Macintosh, Amiga, NeXT, etc., etc.] Yep, translates to modern-day very well. > Greelish, a computer repairman, has spent about $2,600 in recent >years building a collection of 35 computers, mostly by trolling for >bargains on the Internet. $2,600 for only 35 machines???? Anyone have his address, I have some 64s for him! -- "Altairless" Larry Anderson -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 10 months

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DEC Pro350/380

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Im looking for a case for the DEC pro380 (same size as 350) as I have a complete board set (cables and even power supply) for it and no case! Allison

28 years, 10 months

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(fwd) FS: TI Equipment (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's some TI/99 stuff that might interest some people. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Hole In The Wall now offers a small (but growing) selection of TI99/4A parts and equipment as a service to the TI community. Our Web site should be up within 10 days. TI Peripheral Expansion Boxes - $40 TI99/4A consoles (black and silver) - $27.50 (orig. box, manuals, RF) TI RS232 Cards - $40 TI Disk Controller Cards (SSSD) - $20 TI 32x8 Memory Expansion - $25 TI Writer (orig. cart, disk and manual in binder) - $10 Much more to come! Email for more info. -- <= KEITH BERGMAN => The Glass Eye / Hole In the Wall Enterprises PIT Magazine / Chicken Dog kbergman(a)toltbbs.com "just want a way not to be what gets sold to me" - Jawbox -- Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by BigLouS＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-20 18:10:08 EDT > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > > I'm kind of curious how many Altairs we have on this list. I've got > > > > 3... I suggest that a Classic Computer Rescue team head out to Kai's house and rescue two of those Altairs. They could them be put up for adoption and ultimately be given a loving home where they will be receive the INDIVIDUAL care and nurturing that they deserve. :-) Lou

28 years, 10 months

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CP/M disk (was Digilog 1500)

by BigLouS＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-20 03:16:54 EDT, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Hmm. One of my friends got a LOT of apple II stuff from a business that > > went under. One of the things he got was an 8" CP/M disk. I'm gonna go > > try to get my hands on it. (It said CP/M on it). It may be > > destroyed/gone by now. This was a year or two ago, before I got > > interested in old stuff... Any way to tell what system it's for without > > being able to read it? The disk could be for an Apple system. 8" drive controllers where offered for the Apple II line back in 1980 because of the huge (for the time) capacity of DSDD 8" disks. I had a Lobo controller hooked up to a Franklin 1000 and two 8 inchers and it was pretty impressive. I eventually replaced the drives with a 10 meg Corvus hard drive (cost $5000). I've been trying to locate an 8" controller for my Franklin 1000 for quite a while but haven't had any luck. Lou

28 years, 10 months

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Collector Article

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:36 AM 6/20/97 -0700, you wrote: >Gee, then I have an Apple bonanza worth $2000 in my garage. Whatever. >This is what I am dreading of this hobby, that assholes like this Haddock >guy start trying to price things out. I think it's as someone said; at the time the book was written, Apple II's were still in strong demand, esp. from the school market. My girlfriend's school still uses and maintains a fleet of II's. (Schools simply cannot afford to buy lots of new computers.) (Ask me, if you're interested, about how macs ended up in her classroom.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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AIM65

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-18 02:16:46 EDT, you write: << His e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com and he left his phone number for me: (201) 331-1313. Please reply if you are interested in going in together on this. Sam >> I would be interested in this. Kelly Fergason KFergason(a)aol.com

28 years, 10 months

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BOOK The History of Computers

by manney＠nwohio.com

I'd like to buy. Can I reserve it? Please e-mail me with your address and I'll send you a check. (woukd you prefer money order? some sort of trade? I have scads of old computer stuff.) Manney ---------- > From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: FS: BOOK The History of Computers > Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 1:52 PM > > For Sale: > > The History of Computers -A Family Alubum of Computer Genealogy- > by Les Freed > ZD press > ISBN 1-56276-275-3 > all color and lots of pictures and illustrations > > $12 (shipping included within the United States, original price is $24.95) >

28 years, 10 months

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EBCDIC

by rector＠rocketmail.com

Sam, I don't own any computers that use EBCDIC, but I use them every day at work. EBCDIC - extended binary coded decimal interchange code is the character set used on most (if not all) IBM mainframes and midrange systems. (IBM S/390, S/36, S/38, AS/400 etc.) This set has its roots in punched cards (and prior) and really makes more sense when viewed >from that perspective vs. that of the way things are today. ASCII - American National Standard Code for Information Interchange. Back when I was in college, an instructor stated it this way: (Speaking about the need for a uniform way to share info across machines.) "There are two ways to obtain a standard in the industry. The first is to get a big committee together and have all parties involved agree on what it should be (ASCII). Or, be the largest company in the industry, do it your own way and force everyone else to adopt your way of thinking. Dan ---Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> wrote: > > > DOes anyone have a computer which uses the EBCDIC character set, rather > than ASCII (did I get the acronym right? what does it stand for anyway)? > > Just curious. > > > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

28 years, 10 months

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Mark 8

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Today it would look a LOT different. Let's see, what WOULD it look like? > Start with a PAL to generate the oddball clocks, and some misc decoding, f > it, then throw a 32k skinnydip SRAM at it (OK, you can tie one address li > to ground to limit it to 16K), an 8K EPROM (since that's what I've got in > stock), say, an 8251 for serial I/O, and you've got a basic machine. Actually a 8ksram and a 8kprom would do it. Or better yet a 2 or 8k EEprom. That this is slow enough you could use the EEprom for sram! (the slow parts was 20us and the real fast one was 10us (single byte instruction). The real annoying part is capturing all the muxed status and syncing it. Making the front pannel logic is the real work, it wouldn't be right without the FP! > What do ya think? Tim, your a sick puppy. It's got style! Allison

28 years, 10 months

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This mlist is ACTIVE!

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

I just subscribed to this mailing list yesterday and am amazed at the traffic. Just today, I seem to have received more than 80 messages! Ben

28 years, 10 months

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Mark 8

by timolmst＠cyberramp.net

At 06:30 PM 6/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > >On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >> | ---------- >> | From: James Willing >> | Subject: Re: Mark 8 >> | >> | On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Marvin wrote: >> | >> | > I need another project :) and I was thinking about building the Mark >> | > 8 computer. Somewhere, I seem to recall that someone was having the >> | > board sets for this computer made up, does anyone out there know >> | > or remember who might be doing this? >> | >> | That would be me... >> >> If you get one of these up and running, I have a Scelbi book, "Space >> Wars for the 8008 Microprocessor" with full hex code listings... > >I also have the three books - > > An 8008 Editor Program > Machine Language Programming for the 8008 > Assembler Programs for the 8008 > >I am such a packrat 8-) > >BC > > Here I go volunteering again. Could those books be scanned/ocr'd? I'm sure that the original authors wouldn't care, even if they did admit to writing them. I have all the hardware and software to do that. I have a softspot in my heart (and my head) for the 8008. That was my first computer. I couldn't afford to buy something like the Mark 8, so I designed, and built it, myself. By the time I was ready to retire it, I had an S100 video card (SSM), and a 9-track tape drive, running one track serial at 5k baud. Used my own designed r/w amps, even. It ran great, just real slow. I still have the CPU chip from that machine, holding down a piece of foam. Seing these posts about the Mark 8 made me nastolgic. If I could get enough data, I might consider building a new machine with that old "first CPU" chip. Today it would look a LOT different. Let's see, what WOULD it look like? Start with a PAL to generate the oddball clocks, and some misc decoding, for it, then throw a 32k skinnydip SRAM at it (OK, you can tie one address line to ground to limit it to 16K), an 8K EPROM (since that's what I've got in stock), say, an 8251 for serial I/O, and you've got a basic machine. What do ya think? Tim Olmstead timolmst(a)cyberramp.net

28 years, 10 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 06:57 19/06/97 -0400, you wrote: > >On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, steve wrote: > >> At 06:10 13/06/97 -0400, you wrote: > ><snip> > >> >Of course this all assumes that I *have* a PC. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ><snip> > > >Besides, I was talking about CP/M for the Commodore 1541 drive. That's a >multi-speed drive that uses GCR encoding, not MFM. Try writing THAT with >22DISK on your PC-clone. >I used to know that only C=1570 and C=1571 were capable to read and write CP/M disks in a proper way. (GCR+MFM) By the way anyone else apart me owning a C=1570 here? Ciao

28 years, 10 months

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Collecting old microprocessors (as opposed to Computers)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> The oldest CPU type I have is an NEC 8080A. Still trying to figure out > how to make use of it. The legs are pretty corroded (used to live in > humid climates). I could give you a dozen of them (all pre '80 date code or older!). You need other parts to build a system using it. Minimally you need 8224 clock chip and a 8bit latch or 8228 to get the status signals off the buss. The rest if perpherals and memory. Others from that (pre 1980) era I have: IMSAI IMP-48 (works but, I really need a manual or schematic!!!) circa '79 If you've never seen one it's a small board with relays and opto IO for control use, tty interface, cassette IO led display and keyboard for programming(in hex!). National SC/MP 8a500 cpu(late '78) RCA1802(base cosmac elf 1979, board from the first PE article) 6502(old part) TI9900 chip on board(technico super starter system) moto 6800D1 kit('75-76) LSI-11/03 card that's a tad older them most of those (functional too). I also have a small system using the National nibbleBASIC (8070) chip in 1980. Allison

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs and old stories

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> I know - this will be something I do in Electronics class next year. > While everyone else makes an oscillator or something stupid, I'll build > an Imsai! You laugh, I did something along that line (1971) only it was a solidstate Oscope of my own design. I wanted the class for acces to the tinshop so I could fabricate the steel shields(for the crt) and chassis. If it were three years later it would have been a mark-8! While off the subject... I had a Horizon up in '78 and put the NS* version of the pascal P-system. Since I knew zip about pascal I decided to take a course that used pascal, so happens it was data structures. Blew the proffessors mind when after going on about the 1180 the class would use for assignments I asked if I could use my own system if it conformed to Niklus&wirth. Seems he didn't believe me until I brough the whole mess (left the printer behind) with me the next class and set it up! It was the begining of the revolution as Apples were also just starting to be seen. A year later that declaration of I happen to have a suitable system was no longer an item of skepticism. Sorta like the pocket calc in my EE junior year.... ;-) Allison

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Define "plans". I have full sets of the schematics for the units in my > collection (as I suspect many do), but if you are talking about the > mechanical drawings for things like the case, boards, etc., I am not awar > of those ever being made available. The case was a standard box available at the time. Some of the inside brackets were custom as were the layouts. I've never seen a full printset, and I wonder if there really was. Allison

28 years, 10 months

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FS: BOOK The History of Computers

by ynagasaw＠ic.sunysb.edu

For Sale: The History of Computers -A Family Alubum of Computer Genealogy- by Les Freed ZD press ISBN 1-56276-275-3 all color and lots of pictures and illustrations $12 (shipping included within the United States, original price is $24.95)

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| Does anyone still have the PLANS for one? If you mean schematics, yes. The Altair was built from a kit, not plans. You may be thinking of the Scelbi Mark 8, which was built from plans. Kai

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Does anyone still have the PLANS for one? Yes but I'd build an imsai! The altair was first but not that nice technically. Also the case, front pannel and many componenets would have to be fabricated. I happen to have a spare case and power transformer. I'd love to get an imsai or 8800b box so I could fully retire(not sell) the altair I have. Allison

28 years, 10 months

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FS on eBay: Apple, Atari, Commodore

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I listed a few systems on the auction at eBay this week. Still trying to clean up around here. If interested, please go to the link below for more info or email me with questions. Thanks, Greg Here they are: Pair Apple IIc, IIe Handcontrollers (photo) Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 12:40:28 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=sfx4367 Commodore 128D System Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:12:47 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=qrk459038 Commodore 64 - White Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:16:04 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=wbj37502 Apple IIC System with External Floppy Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:22:31 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=hxz389 Atari 520ST Computer, Floppy, Mouse, etc Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 06/26/97, 21:26:58 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=czo512

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I'm kind of curious how many Altairs we have on this list. I've got 3... I know that Jim has at least 2. Who else? | From: Marvin | Someone that | contacted me recently said that they had sold their Altair for $3000. Whom? | Another story I heard (true?, I don't know) was that someone advertised | their Altair on the net for $4000. This person was flamed for asking so | much, and his only comeback was that it had already sold. If this happened, it had to have been before 3/95, since there is no reference to it in DejaNews. | There was a | reference in TCJ by one of the editors(?) that they wouldn't be | surprised by the price reaching $10,000. I agree, though it's going to take a few years. People tend to acquire items that they wanted when they were in high school or college. Those people are now in their early forties, and that syndrome doesn't really get going full steam until 50-60 (my father, with 7 Corvettes, is a perfect example). I'd put the Altairs at $10K+ in 10 years. They sky's the limit in 20 years, maybe $100K (all in today's money of course). One reason for the expected price skyrocket is the number of people like me (and several others on this list) who acquire them and will never sell them, thus depleting the market. Kai

28 years, 10 months

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Collector Article

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

Does anyone know where I can find equipment accessories for the PC8500 (NEC) laptop? Thanks! Mike ---------- From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Collector Article Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 3:36AM On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 03:31 PM 6/19/97 -0500, you wrote: > >prices listed for Apple equipment in "A Collector's Guide to Personal > >Computers and Pocket Calculators" are quite high, possibly since the book > > Apple II+ is quoted as $100-$200, the IIe $125-250. The Disk II is listed > as $75-150. Haddock's book is way high on some things, (seems) way low on > others, and, occassionally, is right on the money. Nonetheless, it *is* > interesting, has some nice pictures, and is probably a good reference to have. Gee, then I have an Apple bonanza worth $2000 in my garage. Whatever. This is what I am dreading of this hobby, that assholes like this Haddock guy start trying to price things out. Sam ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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Apple ][e software?

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>> I managed to get DOS 3.3 by finding a game or something that ran on >> DOS 3.3, halting it with Control-C to get to the Applesoft BASIC >> prompt, then using the file commands such as INIT to make a new disk. >> I can't remember if DOS 3.3 has a built-in command that will copy a >> disk... There's probably a way to do it. > >It's not built-in, but the DOS 3.3 distributions have the Intbasic >program COPY which will do what you want. If you've got one of >these crippled II+'s or later that only have Applesoft, you can >still use COPYA. I'm wondering if there's a way to hack code to get it to copy without any System Master programs. I don't remember. I know the easy way out would be just to get the System Master, but now I'm just curious. :) -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 10 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by steve＠kennard.keme.co.uk

At 18:08 09/06/97 -0400, you wrote: > >On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, George Lin wrote: > >> At 11:24 PM 6/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >> ><...> >> >> accessories including a CP/M cartridge for C64 >> > >> >A CP/M _carthridge_? Awesome. >> >> I just tried it yesterday. Pretty cool. The Z80 is in the cartridge. The >> package comes with a CP/M 2.2 diskette for 1541 and a condensed CP/M manual >> by Commodore (copyright 1983). There is a K-Mart price tag on the original >> box that reads $54. Not bad. > >This reminds me... I also have a Z80 cartridge for the C64. But it's not >the one from Commodore. It's from a company called DATA 20 Corporation. > >I haven't been able to get it to work. It has what looks like a connector >for a power supply on the back, but I didn't get the PS with it. It also >came without any disks, though it did have a cassette in the box with it, >which says "Use side A for Commodore 64/Use side B for VIC 20". > >It's a Z-80 Video Pak, that combines the Z80 processor AND an 80-column >display adapter into one (big fat) cartridge. > >To quote from the box: > > The Z-80 Video Pak brings the convenience of an 80 column screen and > the power of a CP/M compatible operating system to the Commodore 64. > > Designed to be used with a monitor, the Z-80 Video Pak lets the > Commodore 64 owner switch to a 40 or 80 column screen in black and > white, or back to the standard color screen. All switching is done > through software and no cables need to be moved. > > The Z-80 Video Pak has its own Z-80 microprocessor and operating > system which allows the 64 to run CP/M software formatted for the > Commodore 1541 disk drive. A Terminal mode which brings communication > with central data bases is included at no extra cost. The Z-80 Video > Pak also supports the advanced screen handling features of all Video > Pak models such as erase to the end of line, erase to end of screen, > and dump screen to printer. > > >If anyone out there knows this thing's power requirements (AAAGH! Another >wall-wart!) and where to get CP/M disks in 1541 format, please tell. :) > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca > >CPM DISKS Easy Download em from the net, make a 1541 lead to connect the 1541 to PC its in the DOX on C64s Emulator, Use a util on the PC called Star Commander and copy stright to a real 1541. Easy!!! If you need more info Mail ME.. Steve Emulator BBS 01284 760851 Keeping 8-Bit ALIVE

28 years, 10 months

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AIM65

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok, here's the deal. Marvin & I are both in contact with a guy who says he has 14 AIM65 units. Hopefully you all have been paying attention and have read the messages describing what this is. Marvin & I are of course both interested in buying one, and we dicussed the possibility that others in the discussion would be interested as well. We feel that if enough of us get together and offer this guy a bulk buy-out, we can get a good price from him. Marvin & I are talking about $20 a piece as of now. If this is of interest to anyone, I can give you his e-mail address and you can ask specific questions, but make sure you mention you are a part of this one-shot buyout so that we get a good deal. I think first we should get a count of who is all interested and then approach the guy. He's in New Jersey, and I don't think shipping should be more than $5 per unit. His e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com and he left his phone number for me: (201) 331-1313. Please reply if you are interested in going in together on this. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

Huw Davies wrote: ---------- > From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Altairs (was RE: Collector Article) > Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 1:19 PM snip > > Are there any other Australians on the list, and if so, any pointers to > getting an Altair down under? In addition, I'm looking for an Epson PX-8 > (aka Geneva). > I'm in Australia (Sydney), been collecting for about 3 years and have never seen or indeed even heard of an Altair existing in Australia. To get one?, obviously offer $10,000 on this list and import it from the USA. Hans

28 years, 10 months

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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You need a disk to boot, called "Catalyst" so you still boot from floppy, but the disk initialized the Profile and that's what comes up. I have a working profile, and its missing some of the directories on the menu, anyone know how to edit the menu and stuff? For merely a pre-paid envelop and a disk mailed to me, i'd be wiling to copie the catalyst disk for you. ---------- > From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Apple /// booting and Franklin question > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 6:35 PM > > I think I saw this go by once before on the group, but - > > - How do you get an Apple /// to boot from the ProFile? > > Also: > > - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very > collectible? > > thanks > > Kai

28 years, 10 months

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Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul)

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Yes they made and External Disk ///, a joystick /// as well, I have both :) ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul) > Date: Thursday, June 19, 1997 9:31 PM > > On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Doug Spence wrote: > > > > My internal floppy seems to be hosed. I can't boot any disks off of it. > > > Some bgin to boot but then go to error, others invoke this horrendous > > > recalibration that never ends. I assume the drive head is dirty and the > > > speed needs calibrating. I wonder if I can calibrate this drive like one > > > can the Disk ][? > > > > Bummer. Is it not possible to use a Disk ]['s drive mechanism with the > > ///? Internally or externally? Obviously trying to do so internally > > would bring form factor problems, but I'm wondering if it could be done > > anyway. > > I would guess that the controller is compatible with Disk ][ drives, > although it would not surprised me if Apple purposely changed the pinouts > or used a different connector to thwart anyone attempting to use a ][ > drive with the ///. > > > Thankfully my internal drive works, but I wouldn't mind hooking up a > > second drive to it... and the chances of finding a Disk /// lying around > > are practically nil. > > I don't think they made such a beast...did they? > > > > Doug, if you want I can e-mail NuFX (ShrinkIt) images to you. This would > > > be the quickest way for you to get them. You'd need an Apple // running > > > shrinkit of course. The disk format between the // and /// is identical. > > > > That would be great, thanks! I've never used ShrinkIt, but I can at least > > get stuff to and from my //e, and I've got two Disk ][s and a 512K RAM > > card in it. I'll get ShrinkIt via FTP. > > ShrinkIt is easy to use. You'll do fine. I'll try to e-mail the images > to you in uuencoded format sometime within the next few days (I am busy). > > > I don't suppose the /// disks are available at some anonymous FTP site > > already? It'd be especially cool in .dsk format, as that's how I transfer > > all of my ][ software. (I never had a decent terminal program for my > > Micromodem IIe, so I wrote a whole disk transfer program and extract > > individual files when I have to once the disk image is on my Amiga.) > > I doubt it. It would be a good thing to do though. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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Victor 9000

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:50 PM 6/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >So what exactly is a Victor 9000??? >Just another PC clone? Not a clone, but similar. Max RAM was 768K, came with a Floppy Drive as standard (IIRC). Was the first computer to use variable speed disk drives (as the early Mac's did as well.) Ran an early version of MS-DOS, I think. And, IIRC, it pre-dated the IBM PC. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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Collector Article

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 03:31 PM 6/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >prices listed for Apple equipment in "A Collector's Guide to Personal >Computers and Pocket Calculators" are quite high, possibly since the book Apple II+ is quoted as $100-$200, the IIe $125-250. The Disk II is listed as $75-150. Haddock's book is way high on some things, (seems) way low on others, and, occassionally, is right on the money. Nonetheless, it *is* interesting, has some nice pictures, and is probably a good reference to have. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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Victor 9000

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:49 PM 6/19/97 BST, you wrote: >> I thought the idea of variable speed drives was to have the same >> number/sized sectors on each track? Perhaps I goofed there too... > >Let's go through this logically. Doh! It makes perfect sense the way you explain it. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:36 PM 6/19/97 BST, you wrote: >Oh, come on, an ST is _tiny_ compared to the sort of machines I run. I'd >have no problem fitting another one into my 'machine room'. Now, if >somebody offered me a PDP12, I'd start having problems.. There's a reason I'm concentrating on portable computers... 8^) But seriously, I know a lot of people who have small studio apartments, where they *truly* have room for only one computer. >Why is the PSU a problem? I guess it's easier over here, where we have Just that it takes up room... Sometimes every little bit counts! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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1 GB SMD Disk drives

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Those of you who own systems that use SMD drives, take note! RE-PC, Seattle, WA, has turned up a quantity (6 or 7) of Seagate 'Elite' series SMD disk drives. These are small ones (physically speaking), in the form of 5.25" full-height. They're brand new, still in their original boxes, and appear to be unused. I know these will go cheap, since SMD is useless to the PC world (thank God!). If these are of interest to you, either drop by RE-PC (if you're in the Seattle or nearby areas -- 1565 6th Ave. S, near the Kingdome), or give them a call at (206) 623-9151. Ask for Steve Hess or Mark Dabek, ask specifically about the Seagate SMD drives, tell them I sent you, and make them a decent offer. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 10 months

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TRS-80, etc.

by jpw＠netwizards.net

>2) 80-Micro, TRS-80 Microcomputing News, Computer News 80, and 80-US >Journal magazines, etc. I think we have every issue of 80-Micro from Issue 1 to sometime in 1989(?) when it became 100% PC based and we let the subscription lapse. We even still have the 1982 (or was it 1983?) special 500+ page Christmas special. I can see if we are willing to part with it if you are interested. Later, --John

28 years, 10 months

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Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 10:53 PM 6/19/97 -0400, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: >On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Marvin wrote: > >> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >> > >> > I'm kind of curious how many Altairs we have on this list. I've got >> > 3... I know that Jim has at least 2. Who else? >> > >> >> I have three. >> > >I have none. :( Me too :-( OK, so I've always wanted to post a "Me too" response, and I've finally done it :-) Are there any other Australians on the list, and if so, any pointers to getting an Altair down under? In addition, I'm looking for an Epson PX-8 (aka Geneva). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways"

28 years, 10 months

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Collector Article

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's an article Doug Coward forwarded to me. You guys will get a kick out of it, especially the price list at the end. $200-$400 for an Apple ][...yeah right. I have some property on the moon... Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass 02490420 60320 THE CUTTING EDGE A Byte of History Techies Taking a Scroll Down Memory Lane Los Angeles Times (LT) - MONDAY August 12, 1996 By: GREG MILLER; TIMES STAFF WRITER Edition: Home Edition Section: Business Page: 1 Pt. D Story Type: Main Story; Infobox Word Count: 1,797 TEXT: The nerds are getting nostalgic. Barely 20 years into the personal computer revolution, techies across the country are growing increasingly sentimental about the machines and programs that changed their lives and ushered in the Information Age. For them, booting up a vintage Commodore PET computer can conjure misty-eyed memories. Toggling the switches of an Altair 8800 is better than gripping the gearshift of a first car. And a shrink-wrapped copy of VisiCalc software beats a mint-condition Mickey Mantle baseball card any day. This is the memorabilia of the PC generation, and after spending much of the last decade or two collecting dust in suburban garages from Silicon Valley to Boston's Route 128, it's starting to make a comeback. Virtual museums of vintage hardware and software are sprouting up all over the Internet's World Wide Web, as are online classified ads placed by collectors desperate to reacquire the technological wonders of their youth. Some rare PCs are fetching much higher prices now than they did when they were brand-new, and even revered institutions such as the Smithsonian are bolstering their computer collections. "The amount of activity that I see is amazing," said Kip Crosby, president of the Computer History Assn. of California in Palo Alto. "People are always asking me: 'Can you find me an Altair? Can you find this or that?' I get 10 to 20 phone calls and e-mails a month, twice as many as a year ago." Most of these early machines and programs, which didn't work very well when they were new, are even more troublesome to maintain now--and have been rendered obsolete by wave after wave of new equipment. But like certain cars or baseball cards, high-tech relics are somehow enhanced by the passage of time. Collectors see them as the symbols of a more colorful computer age populated by legendary personalities who became billionaires--or, in some cases, went bust. "That's why I'm interested in computer history," said Co Ho, 30, an Internet administrator at Fullerton College. "Many people could have made it big, but they fell asleep and ended up having somebody else eating their cake." Ho collects vintage software, especially programs that changed the computing landscape but somehow faltered. One of his favorite pieces is CP/M, an early operating system created by Digital Research. CP/M might have become the operating system had Digital Research's founder, the late Gary Kildall, been more hospitable when IBM came calling to license his software. In a legendary blunder, Kildall and his wife refused to sign IBM's confidentiality agreement, and IBM executives took their business to a then-tiny company known as Microsoft. "CP/M missed the boat because of casual behavior," Ho said. "It's really a sad story." Ho is one of the few people who collect software. More collect hardware, and one of the most sought-after machines is the Altair 8800, introduced by MITS Inc. of Albuquerque in 1975. It didn't have a keyboard or a monitor, only rows of switches on the front of the box. The Altair kit sold for $395 when it was new, but one in good condition today can fetch as much as $1,500 because of the exalted position it holds in computer history. Widely regarded as the first mass-market personal computer, it launched a craze when it appeared on the cover of the January 1975 issue of Popular Electronics. Bill Gates even dropped out of Harvard to develop an early version of the Basic programming language for the Altair. The Altair "established Bill Gates in business," said Gwen Bell, founder of the Computer Museum, a Boston mecca for computer lovers. "One of our prize treasures is the original Basic tape that Bill Gates developed on the Altair." Collectors tend to pass over some of the most popular early machines, such as the original IBM PC and the 1984 Apple Macintosh, because there are just too many of them. Scarcity counts, which helps explain why the most valuable collectible is the Apple I. Introduced by Steven Jobs and Stephen Wozniak in 1976, the Apple I was nothing more than a circuit board. It had no keyboard, no monitor, not even a case. It sold for $666, and only a few hundred were produced. A well-preserved Apple I can fetch as much as $12,000 today, sometimes more. An Apple I signed by Jobs and Wozniak sold for $22,000 at a fund-raiser auction for the Computer Museum several months ago, Bell said. That kind of appreciation has attracted the attention of even non-techie collectors. "I got a call from an investment advisor for a Wall Street banker," Bell said. "He asked: 'Should I get him into collecting old computers? Will they increase in value more than art?' I said, 'I don't know--I'm not a dealer.' " In fact, there aren't any prominent dealers of antique computers, at least not yet. But a few collectors are hoping to change that, including David Greelish, founder of the Historical Computer Society in Jacksonville, Fla. Greelish, a computer repairman, has spent about $2,600 in recent years building a collection of 35 computers, mostly by trolling for bargains on the Internet. He uses search engines such as Yahoo to root out online classified ads for Altairs and other vintage machines, and he keeps an eye on alt.folklore.computers, a newsgroup where history buffs hang out. "Ultimately, I would like to see (the Historical Computer Society) grow and publish magazines and books," he said. "I'd like to start displaying our collection and even restoring computers for sale." Greelish and others said would-be collectors should look for machines that look clean, have all the original equipment and documentation and still run. A number of guidebooks are available, including Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published by WorldComm in Asheville, N.C., and "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in Iola, Wis. Experts urge caution, however. There's no guarantee that old computers will grow in value, and they are very difficult to maintain. "If you've never opened up your computer and looked inside, this is probably not the collectible for you," Bell said. Instead, experts say, this is a hobby better left to people who were enthralled by the recent PBS documentary "Triumph of the Nerds," people who still have a soft spot for monochrome terminals, "Chiclet" keyboards and the odd shapes of the early machines. But even among techies, there are plenty of people who scoff at this new fad, including Kim Nelson, service manager at ACP Superstore in Santa Ana. Founded 20 years ago, ACP is one of the oldest computer stores in Southern California, holds swap meets that attract legions of collectors, and might be one of the region's best unofficial museums. The store's top shelves are crammed with artifacts of computer history, although Nelson calls it junk. "Isn't it amazing that we have computer folklore now," he said, walking with a reporter along rows of vintage Commodores, Imsais and Tandys. "That's kind of sad when you think about it. Seems to me there are things that are a lot more important." But as he uttered those words, service technician John Krill walked by and surveyed the line of creaky machines. Almost against his will, Nelson was sucked into an episode of technology reverie. "Look at that Kaypro," Krill said. "That company grew so fast they were warehousing their inventory in tents." "Weren't they the ones that had the fire too?" asked Nelson, perking up just a bit and eager to demonstrate his techno-trivia prowess. The conversation drifted from machine to machine. "When I was in college, I would just leave my Osborne up in the library," Krill said with a laugh, recalling the immobility of the first portable computer. "The damned thing weighed 27 pounds. I didn't want to lug it around." Fifteen minutes passed before the two realized that their walk down memory lane might have strained the attention span of their guest. "That's enough, John," Nelson finally said with an embarrassed grin. "You're boring him." Greg Miller can be reached via e-mail at greg.miller atimes.com (BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX / INFOGRAPHIC) Computer Collectibles Here are some of the PCs attracting the attention of nostalgic techies: Model: Apple I Year introduced: 1976 Original price: $666 Current value: $10,000-$12,000 * Model: Mark-8 Year introduced: 1974 Original price: $250 Current value: $3,500-$4,000 * Model: Scelbi 8H Year introduced: 1973 Original price: $440 Current value: $1,200-$1,500 * Model: Altair 8800 Year introduced: 1975 Original price: $395 Current value: $1,200-$1,500 * Model: Imsai 8080 Year introduced: 1975 Original price: $440 Current value: $400-$600 * Model: Apple II Year introduced: 1977 Original price: $1,195 Current value: $200-$400 * Model: Osborne I Year introduced: 1981 Original price: $1,795 Current value: $200-$300 Descriptions: Apple I: With no monitor, no keyboard and no case, the Apple I was little more than a circuit board. Only a few hundred were produced. Mark-8: A kit computer that was the subject of the first magazine article describing how to build a computer. The article appeared in Radio Electronics Magazine in 1974. Scelbi: Predated the Altair and was the first computer based on a microprocessor advertised for sale. Only a small number was made. Altair 8800: Programmed by switches, the Altair 8800 had no keyboard, no monitor and just 256 bytes of memory. But it is widely regarded as the first mass-market personal computer. The Altair, based on an Intel processor, started a craze when it appeared on the cover of Popular Electronics magazine in January 1975. Imsai 8080: Modeled on the Altair, the Imsai had several technological advances and a more polished look. Had no keyboard or monitor but was briefly the fastest-selling personal computer. Apple II: This is the machine that launched the company--and the personal computer industry. Apple II computers came with a keyboard, monitor and two disk drives. Most important, they ran VisiCalc, the original spreadsheet program that was the personal computer's "killer application." Osborne I: Considered the first portable computer, even though it weighed about 30 pounds and was the size of a suitcase. It had a 5-inch screen, two floppy disk drives and 64K of RAM. Sources: Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published by WorldComm, Asheville, N.C.; David Greelish, president, Historical Computer Society, Jacksonville, Fla.; "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in Iola, Wis. AL SCHABEN / Los Angeles Times

28 years, 10 months

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C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 05:10 PM 6/19/97 BST, you wrote: >I really don't see the interest in emulators if the real hardware still >exists. I'd much rather have the real thing, and have all the fun of >maintaining it, than have a piece of software (probably without source) >running on a PC that I can't get spare chips for. Perhaps it's because I'm >a hardware hacker, but emulators seem to lack so much compared to the >phyusical machine. Perhaps it's because you have a bigger apartment? I know a lot of folks running ST emulators on PC's because they wanted both, but didn't have the room... "lack so much compared to the physical machine..." yeah, 2nd ps, 2nd keyboard, 2nd monitor... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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Victor 9000

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:38 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >> standard (IIRC). Was the first computer to use variable speed disk drives Okay, I dug up where I got that idea from (ACM/Computer Museum Computer Bowl, 1994, Round 3, Toss up question #6): "6. The Victor 9000 computer featured an innovative design in its disk drives. What was unique about the disk drives?" and the answer was: "6. Variable speed" So in between reading that, and now, "innovative" transmogrified into "first of its kind". Sorry about that! >That's how it gets 21 sectors on tracks 1 to 17, 20 sectors on tracks 18 >to 24, 18 sectors on tracks 24 to 30, and 17 sectors on tracks 31 to 35. I thought the idea of variable speed drives was to have the same number/sized sectors on each track? Perhaps I goofed there too... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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Digilog 1500

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > It seems every time I turn around, I find something else I either > haven't seen in a while, or don't know anything about it. In this case, > I picked up a brand new Digilog 1500 some number of years ago. It is > not on the "Big List" so does anyone know anything about this? I seem I wonder if this is the same Digilog that made the Digilog 600 that is sitting in my office at work. It is not a general-purpose computer, but instead a serial line analyzer: one of those things that you plug in between two uncooperative serial communications devices to divine the nature of their uncooperativeness. It's also got a breakout box built in, and you can tell it's portable because it's got a handle (think Osborne 1 for some idea of its arm-lengthening properties, though). And a 3.5" stiffy drive for saving and replaying traces. I last used it in 1995, and have moved it along with me to different offices because no-one else wants it. It works well enough for what it is, but it doesn't understand IP, SLIP or PPP-in-HDLC at all. That is the sort of stuff we need to look at these days and we have better tools for doing that. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 10 months

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the wonderful sound of big iron

by clark_geisler＠nortel-nsm.com

dseagrav @ bsdserver.tek-star.net wrote: >I like my real PDP better than the emulated one. The real one has one >feature that E11, and Supnik 2.2, and all the rest can NEVER have that >annoys my family to no end - THE EAR-SPLITTING NOISE! :) It drives them >Nuts, and I can't get enough of it! There's nothing like powering up the >11/23 and hearing that "Bwaaaaa!" as it all spins up - then it becomes a >gentle roar (I don't have a rack or case of it, so it sits out on a >table). Everyone leaves, and I'm free to hack alone. Not to mention the >emotional satisfaction that you own a piece of history - No matter how big >or inefficient the piece! Which was the primary reason I went out of my >way to get one. And the reason I kept my CoCo, and my C64. Has anyone who has their mini collection displayed on a web page put the *sound* of their machines on the net? I especially love the sound of those big fans and hard drives powering up. Whenever I get around to fixing up my 11/730, I'll definitely have to get a recording of it powering up: from the turn of the key, to the ratcheting sound of the TU58 microcode boot tape, to the sound of the LA-120 printing terminal printing the 'enter date and time' prompt. Actually, I don't have the LA-120, but remember the sounds. Clark Geisler Test Engineer Nortel

28 years, 10 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 88

by ghjorth＠sn.no

Would somebody please unsubscribe me from this list? Thank you.

28 years, 10 months

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Here are the Tandy 600 specs

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Kai Kaltenbach said: >Tandy 600 > >Introduced: > October 28, 1985 FYI: Mine was built in September, 1985, so I would imagine they would need some time to ramp up production for the introduction. >Storage: > Internal 3.5" 360K floppy > (storage only, not bootable) Not bootable, 'cause it boots from ROM. BTW, SSDD 80 Track, 9SPT. >Ports: > RS-232 and Centronics parallel >Bus: > Proprietary for external floppy or "other peripherals" I'm at work, 600 at home (awaiting new internal nicads...) but unless Tandy or Zenith (OEM) designed a floppy-port-based whatever, the external floppy port is a 1-for-1 pinout of a standard floppy interface... so you can hook up either a 3.5" or 5.25" floppy, provided it's 80 tracks or more. (That means I could hook up my 2" floppy, if I designed an interface cable, as it only has a 22-pin cable (all standard signals, plus power... just need to align the signals.) > One option ROM socket (accessible by removing > Multiplan) that holds BASIC or other ROMs >Power: > AC adapter, and built-in NiCd batteries AC adapter is 8V DC, 1.5A, IIRC. (hafta look when I get home...) >Modem: > Internal 300 baud >Operating System: > Proprietary ROM It's called HH/OS, (Hand-Held Operating System... tho I doubt you'd call the 600 a hand-held!) and it was produced by MicroSoft. >Applications: > Built-in System Manager, Word, Calendar, File, > Telcom and Multiplan >BASIC: > Optional ROM cartridge >Keyboard: > 72-key > >Pricing: > Base system $1599 > BASIC ROM $129 > 96K RAM upgrade $399 Didn't the Basic ROM originally cost $139.95, or did it go up from original? (I'll have to look that one up in my '89 catalog...) Tandy still sells the ROM, and they still want $120 for it!!!!! :-( HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 10 months

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Apple ][e software?

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>You do need the system disks in order to make copies of disks. Maybe. For the longest time, I didn't have a DOS 3.3 System Master for my IIGS. I thought DOS 3.3 was a neat OS because you could make your own bootable disks easily. (You can with ProDOS too, but I didn't know that at the time.) I managed to get DOS 3.3 by finding a game or something that ran on DOS 3.3, halting it with Control-C to get to the Applesoft BASIC prompt, then using the file commands such as INIT to make a new disk. I can't remember if DOS 3.3 has a built-in command that will copy a disk... There's probably a way to do it. -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 10 months

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IMSAI 8080 production count

by dastar＠crl.com

Out of curiosity, anyone know how many IMSAIs were produced? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

11
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Apple ][e software?

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You do need the system disks in order to make copies of disks. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple ][e software? > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 8:50 PM > > On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > > > Greetings: > > > > I just picked up an Apple ][e, monitor, disk drives, the whole works... > > even a mouse! But, I am wondering if someone out there might be able to > > sell me a copy of the Disk Operating System disks and maybe one or two > > (more?...) game disks? > > > > Please get in touch with me at the below address, e-mail, or phoen number, > > if you might have something like that which I could use to get the system > > going. > > Cord, forget about the system disks. You don't actually need them. The > Apple was the kind of computer where you could use it with or without > disks, although having software made it more useful. Each disk for the > apple is self-contained and has whatever DOS it needs to run it. Your > main concern right now is to get software for it, whatever that may be - > games, utilities, productivity, etc. Find the apple users group near you > (if there is one) or go to comp.sys.apple where you will find a ton of > information on how and where to obtain apple software. Its not hard to > find, there were literally tens of thousands of titles published for the > Apple ][. If you've never had an Apple before, you want to go out and > start collecting ssome of the games released for it, as there are some > fun titles. But as far as system disks, if you want to round out your > collection, then I guess you would want an original copy just to say you > have them, but every Apple I ever got was second-hand, and I already had > software from the previous apple I was upgrading from, and having the > original system disks was a moot point, as there were so many other more > useful disks to have. > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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Apple ][e software?

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>> I'm wondering if there's a way to hack code to get it to copy without >> any System Master programs. > >Oh, sure. Just take a look at the description of the RWTS >(Read - write - track/sector) routines >in the Apple _DOS 3.3 Manual_. (You know, the one with the Disk ][ >and controller schematics.) You could probably come up with a >basic sector duplicator using a dozen lines of BASIC, sprinkled >liberally with PEEKs, POKEs, and CALLs. I could do it if I was at home, but I don't have all the manuals at college with me. So, I'm attempting to rely on memory (I'm pretty sure I've done something like this with RWTS before). I know a lot of times, instead of using the boring INIT command to format a new disk, I would use the RWTS version just for kicks. Too bad you really can't have as much fun with new computers. :) -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 10 months

1
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STacy Was: yo

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:51 AM 6/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >IIRC it was a 1040ST motherboard in a laptop case. They come up for >sale once in a while in the Atari ST news groups. It seems to me The last STacy I saw sold went for about $750 -- about a year ago. They still get close to that; they're still popular with musicians. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

2
1
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AIM65

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:12 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >> If they're shipped to the bay area, I've got lots of boxes and packing >Uh, but what of us here on the other coast (where the devices are to start >with)? (I'm in the same area code, actually). Damn, but I wish I was Oh, sure, keep 'em there before distributing them. *Don't* send 'em across the country before sending 'em back. Go ahead, be normal. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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Rockwell AIM 65 ad

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

28 years, 10 months

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Here are the Tandy 600 specs

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Tandy 600 Introduced: October 28, 1985 CPU: 80C88 RAM: 32K expandable to 224K in 96K increments Display: Flip-up 80x16 LCD Storage: Internal 3.5" 360K floppy (storage only, not bootable) Ports: RS-232 and Centronics parallel Bus: Proprietary for external floppy or "other peripherals" One option ROM socket (accessible by removing Multiplan) that holds BASIC or other ROMs Power: AC adapter, and built-in NiCd batteries Modem: Internal 300 baud Operating System: Proprietary ROM Applications: Built-in System Manager, Word, Calendar, File, Telcom and Multiplan BASIC: Optional ROM cartridge Keyboard: 72-key Pricing: Base system $1599 BASIC ROM $129 96K RAM upgrade $399

28 years, 10 months

1
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Digilog 1500

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> It seems every time I turn around, I find something else I either > haven't seen in a while, or don't know anything about it. In this case, > I picked up a brand new Digilog 1500 some number of years ago. It is > not on the "Big List" so does anyone know anything about this? Yeah, I know a little about Digilogs. Used to use one quite a bit; when I started working here, that was the CP/M machine of choice and we had a couple of them (the non-CP/M machine of choice were the Micro PDP-11s that DEC kept throwing at us). Someone had built a custom interface between one of them and a PC05 to punch paper tape to ship out to folks who did our wire-wrapping (the software to generate the paper tapes was either in FORTRAN on the PDP-11s or PL/I-80 on the Digilogs; shortly after I arrived we moved the FORTRAN version to the VAX-11/780 we had just installed (sigh; I was the only user of the 11/780 most of the time and I had a whole gigabyte of RM05s to play with; those were the days), so I never had to use the PL/I-80 version of the wirewrap software). We started picking up Televideo 802s and 803s about that time and migrated from the Digilog to them. No promises, but I _may_ have a CP/M boot disk for the thing and (depending on how recently my cow-orkers have cleaned their offices) I may be able to find a bit of technical info. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 10 months

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Digilog 1500

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Hmm. One of my friends got a LOT of apple II stuff from a business that > went under. One of the things he got was an 8" CP/M disk. I'm gonna go > try to get my hands on it. (It said CP/M on it). It may be > destroyed/gone by now. This was a year or two ago, before I got > interested in old stuff... Any way to tell what system it's for without > being able to read it? You usually can't tell what system it's for even _with_ being able to read it. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 10 months

1
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Atari XDM121 printer help

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

I just recieved an Atari XDM121 printer, and it appears to work fine, though is in need of a new ribbon. It is a daisy wheel printer, 80 column, and is set up to connect to the Atari 8bit I/O bus. It appears to have been produced in the mid to late 80's since the style of the case and buttons on the front are the same as those of the Atari ST line of computers, and not the earlier 8bit machines (ie. the case is grey and the 3 buttons on the front panel have diagonal vertical lines). My question is about a third connector on the back (the other two being the 8bit I/O bus connectors). This third connector is a modular connector, similar to a RJ-11 phone jack, and it has just two contacts in it. Any ideas on what this might be for? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 10 months

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Good Emulators & floppies (was: C64 CP/M carts (was:...))

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 10:29 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >"Evil Empire?" == Use the Farce, Duke! == First, if you have an Atari ST, >(and I think TOS 1.4 or above... getting my ST next weekend! Wheeeee! ;-) >it can read/write/format PC floppies. The atari ST could always (well, production models on, anyway) read/write PC floppies. Formatting, however, was initially a problem. It seems there's an unused field somewhere in the admin stuff on a pc floppy that Atari figured didn't matter. So they left it blank. But, for some reason, IBM machines needed some value in there. (I'm probably way oversimplifying, and making errors...) So floppies formatted on the atari worked fine on the atari, but if you wanted to use the floppy on both machines, you needed to format it on the PC (or use a third party formatter that fixed the problem.) Some later version of TOS (1.4?) fixed this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

2
1
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'Orange Wall' FREE!

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Ok, got another freebie for the group. I have the infamous DEC 'Orange Wall' worth of docs on VMS 4.whatever, at least a couple of big boxes worth. As I don't anticipate running VMS (heck, I don't own a big VAX!) anytime soon, I would rather see these go to someone who needs them. If no one speaks up, I'll recycle the innards and use the binders. First one who wants to visit me in Kent, WA can have 'em! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 10 months

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Salvation Army (was RE: IMSAI 8080 production count)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| In my experience, the "volunteers" at the Salvation Army filtered out | anything that even resembled computers so that they could sell it | themselves. If it comes in a box and has a detach keyboard (i.e. looks | like a PC) it never gets to the showroom floor. Trust me.... I *know* Well, I don't think they're selling them themselves... if they have a policy (perhaps nationally) like the western washington Salvation Army headquarters in downtown Seattle, they auction off pallets of donated computer equipment to the for-profit thrift organizations such as Value Village, Thriftko and Shop & Save. Unfortunately, the Seattle headquarters holds the auctions not monthly, not weekly, but DAILY, and at 8:30 AM !!! Kai

28 years, 10 months

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Mark 8

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| ---------- | From: James Willing | Subject: Re: Mark 8 | | On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Marvin wrote: | | > I need another project :) and I was thinking about building the Mark 8 | > computer. Somewhere, I seem to recall that someone was having the board | > sets for this computer made up, does anyone out there know or remember | > who might be doing this? | | That would be me... If you get one of these up and running, I have a Scelbi book, "Space Wars for the 8008 Microprocessor" with full hex code listings... Kai

28 years, 10 months

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AIM65

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:48 AM 6/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >negotiations for everyone. But I think it would be best if one person >did the negotiating and made the deal. It depends on what everyone I agree... We could have them shipped to one place and re-shipped from there; USPS should be around $3-5 if you're not in a hurry. (And I'm not worried about them becoming obsolete before I get mine...) If they're shipped to the bay area, I've got lots of boxes and packing materials I need to get rid of... (I'd volunteer to handle it, but I'm new to the mailing list, and if it were me, I would trust me yet.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

6
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VIC stuff, ComputerSpace, and SuperPET update!

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Paul E Coad <pcoad(a)crl.com> Subject: Weekend Acquisitions III >...Get money. Go back to thrift. The VIC was still there. >Bought the box of stuff for $5. This included VIC-20 (still untested), >CN2 (my 3rd!), 3K, 8K, and 16K memory carts, super expander cart (with >manual), Forth Cart with box and manual, programmer's aid cart, machine >language monitor cart, 7 cart games, and a few cassette games. (think Homer Simpson Voice): Mmmmm Utilities! I have about 20 or so various Commodore datasettes, from a couple butchered Sanyo decks Commodore stuck in the first PETs to a clone one. Almost tempted to pick up another today -along with the 64 it was being sold with- >Saturday noon >Went back to the sale and met up with Uncle Roger and his girlfriend. >We had an excellent lunch. Swapped a few stories. Went home and >explained to my wife why I NEED 2 more Sun keyboards. Fortunately for me my wife understands, as she has read, it is easier to get along with your spouse if each of you have a money-pit hobby, hers is mainly knitting, spinning, and fabrics, and mine classic computers. I understand when she needs that third sewing machine and she understands the gleam in my eye as a snag another 4040 dual drive. >--pec -------------------- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> Subject: RE: PONG >...Several years before Pong, Nolan created a more >sophisticated game called Computer Space, built by Nutting and >Associates. >Computer Space was the first arcade video game. >Trust me, I own all of them. >Kai I have been curious what was Computer Space like????? I keep reading about it, but no good descriptions. What were the controls, the layout, the game play, etc. ------------ SuperPET update! Well I was a little bit conservative in my estimation of daughterboards on the SuperPET, the count is now three (well technically four, one of the daughterboards has a daughterboard itself.) I discovered the bottom-most daughterboard seemed to be loose so I had to do a partial diassembly to get to it. It would seem that the bottom-most daughterboard plugs directly into the 6502 socket of the 8032 motherboard, and that daughterboard was not seated in the socket (which is raised with about 4 stacked chip sockets!) Continuing on, I discover that also some of the pins on the bottom of the daughterboard were bent and *sigh* some broke upon attempt to get them back in line (they should be replaceable, but not too easily.) For now, I decided to re-assemble it (and all the various cross-connections and such). Also, I had gotten word back from the person who has a SuperPET and set the switches to work as an expanded 8032. I now can get the 'jingle' sound and a screen full of garbage characters! (Not a complete victory, but a very good amount of progress here!) Plus, the gentleman does have some of the disks: >Yes, I have most of the Waterloo software stuff, for sure the assembly >stuff, the Pascal possibly, the Fortran for sure, and possibly the >BASIC. I may even have the Cobol stuff... I really don't have the time or space to do much more presently, (one of these decades when I retire or win the lottery) but will work on getting a set of the disks, for future use. This is so much fun, my Commodore collection is getting there! Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 10 months

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1
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Aim65 (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's some info from the guy about the AIM65s. They sound like nice units. Marvin, please e-mail me so we aren't stepping on each other's toes. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:02:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1(a)aol.com To: dastar(a)crl.com Subject: Re: Aim65 Dear Sam, They are all in new working condition.The beauty about the Aim 65 is that it was a single board computer which was self contained in that it had its display,printer,and memory all mounted on its board so that peripheral attachments weren't necessary.Yes,it comes with a keyboard and power supply also.I developed a plastic enclosure and metal base and ROM board for the system so the keyboard and power supply could be housed with the Aim in a compact unit and programs could be burned onto eproms which would seat in the ROM board rather than rely on tape storage which involves a recorder hookup and would be quite slow. Best Regards Mike

28 years, 10 months

2
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Aim 65

by sinasohn＠crl.com

>One question that does come up is how to handle the repackaging and >remailing assuming we can buy them as a bulk deal. I have access to a I'm sure there will be enough people in the bay area to warrant a dinner get-together to distribute a bulk package. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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Radofin Aquarius on AuctionWeb

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

FYI, Somebody's got a Radofin Aquarius on AuctionWeb: http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=elv642 Kai

28 years, 10 months

1
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Aim 65

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > 1. What is an Aim65? It's a singleboard 6502 system/eval kit from Rockwell, sort of like the MOS/CBM KIM-1, only different. 6502, some RAM, some ROM (sockets?), 20-char LED display, QWERTY keyboard, cash-register printer, a couple of bus connectors off the left side of the board. Actually, I'm not sure if the display, keyboard, and printer were there on all of them but I remember them being sold with those in the late 1970s/early 1980s. > 2. What is a good price to offer to buy/sell one? A few years ago I paid $5 for one at Foothill. It had apparently been OEMd into a nutrition advising system of some sort, as that is what seemed to be in the ROMs and it came in a cheap plastic case that pretty much hid the guts (just sturdy enough to be a frame for the AIM-65 and the power supply). No documentation, either for the AIM-65 itself or for the nutrition software. I don't recall for sure, but would expect that an AIM-65 from Rockwell would have come with something other than the nutrition software in the ROM sockets. Somewhere I do have an AIM-65 manual but it is (like most of my collection at present) in storage. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 10 months

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AIM65

by dastar＠crl.com

On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > i'm interested in one of the Aim 65's. $20 seems like a fair offering > price. you mentioned a bulk offer but then you mentioned his email address > so wasn't clear if you guys were trying to coordinate this or let everyone > deal directly with him. let me know how this pans out. tx. I didn't want to seem like a slick willy trying to take over the negotiations for everyone. But I think it would be best if one person did the negotiating and made the deal. It depends on what everyone wants. If it's OK with everyone else, I or Marvin can do the deal, then let everyone know. Otherwise, if everyone wants to take a stab at it themselves, that's fine. I think the easiest for all parties is to offer a bulk buyout at a set price. I think everyone will come away winners. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

2
1
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Cleaning Plastic

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I apologize if this is a repeat question but I can't seem to find the previous post. What were the solutions to removing yellowing from the plastic cases? I bought a printer that looks terrible. Not sure what caused it so any suggestions helpful at this point. thanks, Greg

28 years, 10 months

8
9
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AIM65

by BigLouS＠aol.com

Count me in for $20 + shipping. Lou

28 years, 10 months

3
2
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old memory boards?

by mpsayler＠cs.utexas.edu

Hi. I'm a small-time collector interested in older unix machines, though I think I'd be more interested in micros if I had more room than my apartment provides. I was picking up a load of Sun VME-bus equipment today and ran across some memory boards. These are definitely not for the suns, neither multi-bus nor vmebus. The boards are perhaps 12"x16" and are populated with what I presume to be memory chips (AMD 21-17559-01 / 8333EMM) in 16 banks of 9 chips each. The connector along the back has 6 distinct edge-card pieces, with 18 contacts per connector per side. All of the boards appear to be more or less of the same nature, but one is manufactured by Motorola, and 4 have digital markings. Along the back of three of the digital boards, there are two metal protrusions. One says AM, the other M8210. The other digital board is AZ M8210, and it has a lot of Mostek chips that I would guess are 16kbit 300ns chips . . Does anyone know what machine used these boards? The sun equipment I salvaged was sadly without CPU board or power supply but I did manage to grab 2 8mb boards and a bevy of SCSI and SMD controllers. I guess I can add it to my collection of old sun hardware that needs drives to become operational. Do SMD drives frequently show up at swap meets, etc? matt -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler(a)cs.utexas.edu -- Austin, Texas (512)457-0086 -- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */

28 years, 10 months

4
3
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Mark 8

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> > If you get one of these up and running, I have a Scelbi book, "Space > Wars for the 8008 Microprocessor" with full hex code listings... I've designed using that chip and still have my MCS-8 microcomputer set manual from intel If you need help. FYI another old ram chip that fits with that CPU is 2101 (256x4). Allison

28 years, 10 months

1
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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by BigLouS＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-06-18 00:54:51 EDT, bill(a)booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) wrote: << - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very > collectible? Yes. It was a legitimate alternative to the Apple II+ at a lower price. I designed my first database on a 1000 and found it to be 100% compatible with the II+ (it should have been since they copied the II+ roms) and very reliable. I think that the Franklin line as well as the Laser series of clones belongs in any Apple II collection. Lou

28 years, 10 months

1
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Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges?

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:22 PM 6/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >1", "Lotus", "dBase II", "Wordstar", "IBM PC", and "Multimate". Anyone >out there know what these are and what they go to? Thanks! Well, "IBM PC" helps date it, as does "dBase II". Has to be early-to-mid 80's. I would guess, off the top of my head, PCjr cartridges? Do I win the prize? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

1
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AIM65

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

Count me in for $20 plus shipping! Ill be @ E3, so no responces for a few days. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@crl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 12:34 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: AIM65 > > > Ok, here's the deal. Marvin & I are both in contact with a guy who > says > he has 14 AIM65 units. Hopefully you all have been paying attention > and > have read the messages describing what this is. Marvin & I are of > course > both interested in buying one, and we dicussed the possibility that > others in the discussion would be interested as well. We feel that if > > enough of us get together and offer this guy a bulk buy-out, we can > get a > good price from him. Marvin & I are talking about $20 a piece as of > now. If this is of interest to anyone, I can give you his e-mail > address > and you can ask specific questions, but make sure you mention you are > a > part of this one-shot buyout so that we get a good deal. I think > first > we should get a count of who is all interested and then approach the > guy. He's in New Jersey, and I don't think shipping should be more > than > $5 per unit. > > His e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com and he left his phone number > for me: > (201) 331-1313. > > Please reply if you are interested in going in together on this. > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, > Writer, Jackass >

28 years, 10 months

1
0
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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I think I saw this go by once before on the group, but - - How do you get an Apple /// to boot from the ProFile? Also: - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very collectible? thanks Kai

28 years, 10 months

4
3
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EBCDIC

by rector＠usa.net

Sam, I don't own any computers that use EBCDIC, but I use them every day at work. EBCDIC - extended binary coded decimal interchange code is the character set used on most (if not all) IBM mainframes and midrange systems. (IBM S/390, S/36, S/38, AS/400 etc.) This set has its roots in punched cards (and prior) and really makes more sense when viewed >from that perspective vs. that of the way things are today. ASCII - American National Standard Code for Information Interchange. Back when I was in college, an instructor stated it this way: (Speaking about the need for a uniform way to share info across machines. "There are two ways to obtain a standard in the industry. The first is to get a big commitee together and have all parties involved agree on what it should be (ASCII). Or, be the largest company in the industry, do it your own way and force everyone else to adopt your way of thinking. Dan ------------------- Sam Ismail wrote: DOes anyone have a computer which uses the EBCDIC character set, rather than ASCII (did I get the acronym right? what does it stand for anyway)? Just curious. Sam

28 years, 10 months

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EBCDIC

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:41 PM 6/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >DOes anyone have a computer which uses the EBCDIC character set, rather >than ASCII (did I get the acronym right? what does it stand for anyway)? My HP3000 can write mag tapes in EBCDIC. EBCDIC: Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code (From the Acronym Database on the 'web.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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IMSAI 8080

by groberts＠mitre.org

At 11:57 PM 6/17/97 -0400, Les wrote: >If someone has got a reasonably priced IMSAI in the Philly area to sell, >then fine... but I just don't see it hapening any time soon... hang in there. i actually saw an industrial type IMSAI chassis for sale at the Frederick (MD) Hamfest last weekend - only a couple hours drive from Philly so these things *do* exist on the east coast! i think he was asking $50 or $60. i believe he left without selling it so it could reappear. it wasn't complete but could have been a good starting point for an IMSAI collector (it had several CPU boards and some other stuff). of course without the front panel it's not as visually interesting as the original IMSAI. btw: he said he has bought this as part of a bigger package that included an original IMSAI and an Altair - both of which he fixed up and later sold! - glenn

28 years, 10 months

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Aim 65

by dastar＠crl.com

1. What is an Aim65? 2. What is a good price to offer to buy/sell one? Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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Old computers

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Another target of opportunity for claim or rescue! -jim --- begin forwarded message --- >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:15:56 -0500 (CDT) >From: Steve Jones <sjones(a)knox.edu> >X-Sender: sjones(a)knoxadm.admin.knet.edu >To: jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >Cc: Nancy Taflinger <ntafling(a)knox.knox.edu> >Subject: Old computers >X-Status: > >We have a PDP-11/44 and a VAX 750 that are now parked in a corner, along >with a fair amount of documentation, system tapes. There are about 5 >RM02s, a tape drive, mux's, ... > >Also have a couple old DecMates. > >I would qualify them all as "free for the hauling", with the only concern >being a need to wipe some of the data on the PDP. Any interest or know >of anyone who might have? > >Steven A. Jones, Director >Computer Center, K-80 E-mail: sjones(a)knox.edu >Knox College Voice: (309) 341-7356 >Galesburg, Illinois 61401 Fax: (309) 341-7718 --- end of forwarded message --- --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 10 months

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HELP!

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

Does anyone have any info on where I can find accessories and parts for my old PC8500 (NEC) laptop? Thanks Mike

28 years, 10 months

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Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges?

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 07:22 PM 6/17/97 +0000, you wrote: >A while back, I "saved" some cartridges from being tossed. The label >says "Digital Controls, Learning Center, Multiplan (title varies >depending on cartridge), Registerd Trademark of Microsoft Corporations, >Copyright Digital Controls, Inc." The other titles I have are "Preview >1", "Lotus", "dBase II", "Wordstar", "IBM PC", and "Multimate". Anyone >out there know what these are and what they go to? Thanks! My first guess would have been an IBM PCjr because it has the only cartridge version of Lotus I've ever heard of. But Wordstar was definitely disk-based for the PCjr, in fact it had it's own version, Wordstarjr. Microsoft Multiplan came on cartridge for the TI99/4A, but I've never heard of the others being on cartridge format for that system. What are the dimensions of the cartridges and how many pins? Do the labels looks commercially viable, or could they be test/demo/proto labels? James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 10 months

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yo

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:39 PM 6/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >On this site was mention of the STacy laptop, an Atari ST laptop >(presumably). Anyone have or know anything about these? Sounds >interesting, and I vaguely remember hearing about it years ago. The STacy is, I guess, a laptop, but it's one of those where you need a good sized lap. Still, a nice, compact machine, with built-in midi -- hence it's popularity with touring musicians. I think it was the Arsenio Hall show where the band leader had a STacy prominently displayed on stage (and working). If you're thinking of a true laptop, it's probably the ST Book, a notebook like computer that was ST compatible. Never came out, though, AFAIK. I've got a "Midi Magazine" (or something like that) that featured the ST Book on the cover. Shame that it didn't make it out (would've even been better as a Falcon-book) because it would have been one hell of a musician's tool. (My ST's and Falcons are *not* in my collection because they're still (in theory -- oh, if only I didn't have to work for a living) in use in my studio.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 10 months

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Apple /// booting and Franklin question

by thedm＠sunflower.com

To use boot from a profile, you really can't you use a disk that boots the profiler. It's not really booting from it, but it is. I don't really understand it, just that the disk that came with my apple/// does it ---------- > From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Apple /// booting and Franklin question > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 6:35 PM > > I think I saw this go by once before on the group, but - > > - How do you get an Apple /// to boot from the ProFile? > > Also: > > - Does anyone consider the Franklin Ace 1000 Apple II clone very > collectible? > > thanks > > Kai

28 years, 10 months

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PCjr questions and TI 99/4A tidbit

by marcw＠lightside.com

> Is that true that there is a lots of add ons for this PCjr? I would > like to seperate the video to a proper video such as VGA card so it > would not hog up the main memory and boost it to 640k. Finally is > there a add on that allows me to plug a DMA chip in to speed up the > floppy? It is nice compact computer! What I planning is to make this > PCjr more of an real XT with SLOTS than a just a cheap > vanilla-favored PCjr. Where's is good source to find these parts? > PC Enterprises has a PCjr catalogue that they sent me for some reason. I used to get their Tandy parts catalogue. Assuming they're not going out of business call 'em up at 800-922-7257. They're on the east coast and keep banker's hours it seems. Best to get them in the morning. The catalogue I have is from '95 and is 111 pages thick with index. I'll email you later with the items you asked about with descriptions and prices. Marc -- >> ANIME SENSHI << Marc D. Williams marcw(a)lightside.com marc.williams(a)mb.fidonet.org IRC Nick: Senshi Channel: #dos #IrcHelp http://www.agate.net/~tvdog/internet.html -- DOS Internet Tools

28 years, 10 months

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Apple Lisa parts -- Get 'em while you can...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Ok, here's a twist. A 'rescue' of computer parts rather than whole machines? Anyone else think this might be worthwhile? -jim --- begin forwarded message --- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:13:37 GMT From: Tom Stepleton <ude.ltsuw.icstra%telpetss.REVERSE_TO_MAIL_ME(a)nac.no> Newsgroups: comp.society.folklore Subject: Apple Lisa parts -- Get 'em while you can... I realize that this may not be of general interest. I apologize in advance to those I might bore or annoy... This is probably nothing to be excited about, but... A friend has recently informed me that Sam Neulinger of New York's DAFAX is sending some Apple Lisa parts in rather poor condition to the recycler by afternoon (EST) tomorrow. AFAIK, they comprise mostly of items like video boards, power supplies, and some Macintosh XL hard disks, all in various states of disrepair but still good for salvage or fixing-up. There are probably various other tarnished gems as well. If anyone would like to have these parts, I am sure that Mr. Neulinger would just as soon sell them to a hobbyist as to a scrap dealer. Keep in mind that it is probably not in his interest to sell these items piecemeal -- any buyer would have to purchase these items bulk. Also keep in mind that a buyer would not have to buy EVERYTHING. So, it's up to anyone who is interested and has the cash. I have neither the money nor the space to house these items. Whatever; either they end up under a soldering iron or in a recycling bin. DAFAX will still sell working Lisa parts, but will not maintain power supplies any longer as it is not profitable for them. DAFAX's number is (718)746-8220. Thanks, --Tom TI-82: :For(A,0,9):0>D:For(B,0,A):A nCr B>C:Text(6A,D,C) :D+5(int log C+1)>D:End:End --- end of forwarded message --- --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 10 months

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Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges?

by thedm＠sunflower.com

any chance for a PC Jr? maybe a TI/99? ---------- > From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Digital Controls Inc. Training Cartridges? > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 2:22 PM > > A while back, I "saved" some cartridges from being tossed. The label > says "Digital Controls, Learning Center, Multiplan (title varies > depending on cartridge), Registerd Trademark of Microsoft Corporations, > Copyright Digital Controls, Inc." The other titles I have are "Preview > 1", "Lotus", "dBase II", "Wordstar", "IBM PC", and "Multimate". Anyone > out there know what these are and what they go to? Thanks!

28 years, 10 months

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TRS-80 Differences?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> In checking through the TRS-80 Model I computers, I noticed two > different catalog numbers, 26-1001 and 26-1006. I also noticed that one > of the 26-001 computer has a sticker saying "Note - This unit has the > lower case modification kit installed (Cat. No. 26-1104.) Since most of > these machines have been previously owned by early computer users, > needless to say most have been modified in one way or another. Anyone > know the differences between the different catalog numbers? Thanks. I don't suppose one number is for Level I BASIC and the other is for Level II BASIC? Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 10 months

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yo

by dastar＠crl.com

A couple things: First, if you are an Atari fan, or not, either way, go check out: http://members.aol.com/cvendel/vaporware.html An EXCELLENT page with lots of photos of unreleased Atari prototypes. Great history. A great site. On this site was mention of the STacy laptop, an Atari ST laptop (presumably). Anyone have or know anything about these? Sounds interesting, and I vaguely remember hearing about it years ago. Also, the Aquarius prototype photos on: http://www.webcom.com/~makingit/bluesky/aquarius.html#aquarius2 are startling! That would have been a most awesome computer! I'm biased since I grew up on the Aquarius. But man, what a nice classic that would've made. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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Good Old Days

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

Sunday AM, while waiting for Windows 95 to boot on my trusty Hewitt-Rand 386-33, I found myself browsing through a copy of the June 1982 edition of Creative Computing. Editorial content included an evaluation of the Osborne I, an article on "Mass Storage Options" in which the writer encourages readers to forsake audio cassettes and advance to the 5 1/4" floppy drives, or even (gasp) one of the Winchester hard drives which will store five or even ten megs of data! (An advertisement on page 189 quotes $3339.00 for five megs capacity.) On page 116 Osmo A. Wiio, professor of communications, deplores the unreadability of computer documentation. Ads offer floppies for $ 1.90, 48K of ram for your Atari for $ 299.00, and on the inside rear cover a young looking William Shatner is flogging the Vic 20. "Under $ 300.00, the best computer value in the world today. The only computer you'll need for years to come." Well, Win95 is up on the 386, got to go. Cheers Charlie Fox

28 years, 10 months

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Good Old Days

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Tigerdirect has 386-to-486 upgrade CPUs (for DX or SX) for $19.95 Kai > ---------- > From: Mr. Self Destruct > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 10:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Good Old Days > > On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > Well, Win95 is up on the 386, got to go. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie Fox > > OOOH, That's GOTTA hurt! You poor sadistic soul! > > Les > >

28 years, 10 months

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Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul)

by thedm＠sunflower.com

I have messed with a few apple/// drives, and yes, you can recalibrate them the same way. Excessivly noisey drives in my experience though is not always a bad floppy drive, but rather there is a C-clip retainer that keeps the rotor spindle at the correct height. This C clip is on top of the spindle just below the plastic disk that supports the bottom of the disk. When this clip is missing the flywheel at the bottom of the drives falls down about 1/4" and drags on the bottom of the case. If you don't see this clip, you can remove the drive and sit it on it's side and it may boot. At least then you know if the hunt for a compatable C clip is worth it. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple /// stuff (was: Re: This weekend's haul) > Date: Friday, June 13, 1997 11:29 AM > > On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Doug Spence wrote: > > > I noticed that the cable that leads to the external floppy port has been > > badly crushed between the cast iron frame and the metal sheet that holds > > the motherboard, though. I'll have to remove it to see if any of the > > wires have been broken. :/ > > My internal floppy seems to be hosed. I can't boot any disks off of it. > Some bgin to boot but then go to error, others invoke this horrendous > recalibration that never ends. I assume the drive head is dirty and the > speed needs calibrating. I wonder if I can calibrate this drive like one > can the Disk ][? > > > I do need the system disks. I didn't get them with the machine. I wish > > there was some way to transfer them electronically, though... which is why > > I asked if there was a way of getting an Apple ][ to access a ///'s disks. > > I suppose the ///'s drive is double-sided, though. > > Doug, if you want I can e-mail NuFX (ShrinkIt) images to you. This would > be the quickest way for you to get them. You'd need an Apple // running > shrinkit of course. The disk format between the // and /// is identical. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 10 months

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PONG

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 09:28 PM 6/16/97 PST8PDT, you wrote: > >So when did the original Pong make its appearance. > >Marc Atari's Pong the Coin-op in Nov '72 Atari's Home Pong Console in late '74 Other videogame milestones of note: Higinbotham's Oscilloscope Tennis in Oct '58 Russell's PDP-1 Spacewar in '62 Baer's Cable TV game system in '68 Nutting's Computer Space Coin-op in '71 Magnovox's Odyssey Console in May '72 James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 10 months

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Victor 9000

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> I was running a 8086 system in 1980 that clearly blow the doors off a PC. > It was 8086 not 8088 at 5.0mhz and 16bit wide memory using standard > multibuss cards. By late 81 that machine was 8mhz, and 82 brought a copy of > PC dos to it. Early MSdos could be configured like CP/M. The PC was slow, > clunky, closed and expensive! By time the XT arrived still slow, clunky and > expensive there are several S100 and other systems that were very fast > 6/8/10 mhz 8088 or 8086 systems. I've been taking a look at Caldera's OpenDOS (aka Novell DOS 7, aka DR-DOS), and it still looks quite friendly to running on strange hardware. Other than a few references to our friend the A20 hack sprinkled throughout the non-BIOS (BIOS as in CBIOS or IBMBIO.SYS, not ROM BIOS) parts of a few modules, I've not run across any glaring PCness in the system. At first glance, it also looks like A20 stuff is set up by the BIOS initialization routine. In short, it should still be possible to configure DR-DOS for non-PC hardware. I can't speak for MS-DOS because sources aren't available... Of course, you will get no sympathy from the folks on the OpenDOS mailing lists if you talk about running DOS on non-PC hardware; they seem to be young enough to have never encountered the wide variety of machines that existed before the PC took over the world. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 10 months

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Good Old Days

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Sunday AM, while waiting for Windows 95 to boot on my trusty > Hewitt-Rand 386-33, I found myself browsing through a copy of the June 198 > edition of Creative Computing. Creative computing was always about 2-3 years behind or worse. > (gasp) one of the Winchester hard drives which will store five or even te > megs of data! (An advertisement on page 189 quotes $3339.00 for five megs nov/dec 1980 _s100 Microsystems_ MOrrow designs (thinker toys) DISCUS 26mb hard dive system_ $4995 (ithaca) Intersystems DPX-2a (z8002 16 bit cpu) basise machine $4795 Northstar* Horizon-2 (DD controller) z80 4 mhz 32k ram (assembled/tested) $2699 Allison

28 years, 10 months

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PONG

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Pong is not the first video game. Nolan Bushnell, who later founded Atari, did Pong. Several years before Pong, Nolan created a more sophisticated game called Computer Space, built by Nutting and Associates. Computer Space was the first arcade video game. Atari home Pong was the first home video game. Magnavox Odyssey1 was the first home video game system. Trust me, I own all of them. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: e.tedeschi [SMTP:e.tedeschi@ndirect.co.uk] > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 1997 9:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: PONG > > Doeas anybody have a photograph of "PONG" the first video game ever? > Or > where I can find one? I have never seen it and I don't know how it > looks > like so I will not be able to recognize it if I ever bump into one. > > Thanks > > enrico > -- > ================================================================ > Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. > tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile > website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> > ================================================================ > visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> >

28 years, 10 months

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